00:00:59 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-193-35.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 00:07:08 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:07:27 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:15:58 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:20:49 *mbishop* pokes offby1 with the finglonger 00:20:54 now that's a long long pointer! 00:21:16 yay I fixeded sqlite 00:22:06 (make-db (malloc _sqlite3_db_ptr_ptr) ...) o.O 00:22:56 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 00:25:54 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:29:47 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 00:29:54 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:31:34 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 00:31:56 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 00:32:31 after spending much time with gambit scheme, i've decided to return to chicken :-) 00:32:44 why can't we just one the one true scheme implementation ... and have it have all the nice features of all implmnetations? 00:32:51 rather than have to pick & choose between debugger vs eggs ? 00:33:40 we dont want to end up like python 00:33:46 scheme is like china in WW2 ; python is like japan in WW2; scheme has more IQ, but it's all not unified; python has this the one true unified system ... and we leave the rest up to history 00:33:53 why not? 00:34:51 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-107.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:35:31 well - variety in implementations for one thing 00:35:56 Because if programming languages were horses, Python would be a gelding: easy to manage, but it won't win any races, it's no good for plowing your field, and its genes will never spread widely enough to build up any kind of hereditary advantages. 00:36:40 besides academics masturbating to macros, continuations, and closures; what has python lost to scheme on? 00:37:01 python's used @ google; stackless python powers eve online 00:37:03 uhmm - how about having good text books ? 00:37:06 lowlycoder: actually breaking any new ground in programming languages 00:37:18 You don't see any value in macros, continuations or closures? Or do you merely object to the masturbation? 00:37:20 Python hasn't invented a damn thing 00:37:25 *Daemmerung* plonks 00:37:44 Adamant, I'd say "don't feed the troll", but... :) 00:37:53 ah, so is he a regular? 00:37:57 i value macors, continuations, and closures; i'm just surprised that since they're so awesome, why are most real world projects still done in python? 00:38:06 "Most"? 00:38:08 python hasn't invented a damn thing .. but it seems to have brought a particular combination of introspection and (almost) everything-is-a to the mainstream .. 00:38:21 not "most" 00:38:29 why are more real workd projects in python thatn in scheme? 00:38:32 lowlycoder: most real world projects are done in Java 00:38:39 draw your own conclusions 00:38:41 what would scheme being more successful buy you ? 00:38:57 there were also alot of 'real world' projects done in cobol at one point 00:38:57 better libraries 00:39:05 it would probably make the language immutable 00:39:05 and that's it 00:39:15 better libraries is alot 00:39:17 that's the only advantage of Python over other languages 00:39:22 i'm sick and tired of having to wrap every C library I come across 00:39:22 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:39:27 what libraries are you missing ? 00:39:28 Adamant, Dawgmatix, aspect, and lowlycoder - we've all had this argument out many, many times before. lowlycoder, if you actually want answers to these questions, I suggest you look them up: you're doing yourself and this channel no favours by retreading old ground. 00:39:29 and Perl still has better libraries than Python 00:39:38 alright 00:39:46 And if you *are* trying to troll, it's been done better by worse. 00:39:46 okay :) 00:39:58 thats an awesome line 00:39:59 rcassidy [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has joined #scheme 00:40:00 python weenies are the worst of the lot, they seem to have a real chip on their shoulder 00:40:01 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 00:40:03 i'm running an computer vision project in gambit 00:40:03 i much prefer ruby programmers 00:40:09 at least ruby programmers seem to have self-respect 00:40:28 for starters, i've been dealing with opencv -- and wrapping every funcion I have to use, with every constant I have to use, really sucks 00:40:43 on top of this, i'm using a gambit opengl/glu/glut module 00:40:56 and the very compilation process throws warnings of const char* vs char* (from the code I downloaded) 00:41:15 and now I have to take the effort to figure out "how do I tell gambit, when generating this piece of code, mark it as a const char* instead of a char*" 00:41:25 lowlycoder: what's that got to do with scheme? 00:41:28 it seems like things like these ends up soaking up alot of my time when developing in scheme 00:41:29 lowlycoder: shhh 00:41:35 hmm 00:41:39 gnomon: sorry old chap. sometimes I get drawn in to stirring the wrong pot, even if my intentions are not entirely evil 00:41:49 that most of my time is ending up spent "how do I interface with the rest of he world" rather than enjoying coding in scheme 00:42:21 aspect, I deserved that chastisement as much as anyone else! 00:42:32 aspect, as for you not being entirely evil, that point remains open to debate ;) 00:42:48 this brings back that if we had the one true scheme implmentation; instead of me creating this crappy 50% working wrapper of openCV, and everyone down the line creating their own 50% working wrapper for every library they have ot use, a few people can get togheter, and create a 100% working library for the library 00:43:15 -!- dark is now known as light 00:44:00 lowlycoder: we don;t need THE ONE IMPLEMENTATION. We just need some decent standard that makes it possible to write portable Scheme code. 00:44:08 lowlycoder: start a project on github 00:44:09 lowlycoder. perhaps you should spend a bit more time tolerating academic self-abuse and reading about why garbage collection, concurrency, data typing and so forth are difficult across the FFI that bridges C and Scheme. You'll find that this has been an ongoing area of research for decades. 00:45:27 hkBst: portable scheme code is not what I'm after; portable scheme-ffi-c libraries is what I want 00:45:35 which seems very implementation dependant 00:45:48 i have difficulty imagine two entirely different scheme implemenations somehow being able to support the same FFI 00:46:13 lowlycoder: why? 00:46:28 also - a small opinion - since ive been trying to use opengl in bigloo - dont wrap every c call otherwise your scheme code will look like C code. instead write intelligent functional C abstractions over the C/C++ functions and expose those instead 00:47:01 hkBst: just personal observation from working with the gambit & chicken ffi's 00:48:35 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-203-229.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:49:15 lowlycoder: why dont you look into clojure 00:49:18 dmoerner_ [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:49:32 it's java based; i'm not sure if I want to go the jni route to get C libraries 00:49:43 Gah! 00:49:44 arcfide, memo from rudybot: eli told me to tell you: Rozas, an ex-MIT, was one of the very active people in MIT-Scheme. 00:50:04 arcfide: whoa, you worked on MIT-scheme? 00:50:19 lowlycoder: Um, look at that again. 00:50:39 *arcfide* wonders why the fascination with Clojure remains. 00:50:41 oh, Rozas 00:50:42 how often do people move code from one implementation to another? 00:50:50 lowlycoder: someone on r6rs-discuss. There's this use discussion on case (in)sensitivity 00:50:59 s/use/huge/ 00:51:05 eli: To what do I owe the honor of this memo? 00:51:15 Clojure's pretty cool; you get all the java libraries at your finger tips 00:51:28 lowlycoder: Use SISC, you get that too. 00:51:36 arcfide: it also seems to be very good with concurrency a la erlang 00:52:09 arcfide: that was not my opinion of wahting to use Clojure; it was in response to wondering why others are fascinated with Clojure 00:52:14 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has left #scheme 00:52:18 I haven't bothered to take a look at that, but...from what I have heard, it seems to be a lot of hype. 00:52:20 dark [n=ghost@unaffiliated/light] has joined #scheme 00:52:26 Clojure's concurrency is STM ... which afaik is very different from erlang 00:52:40 arcfide: what do you think about erlang? 00:52:55 lowlycoder: Right, I was just pointing out that I am not quite sure what's so great about it compared to existing Lisps and existing libraries that exist. 00:53:12 banisterfiend: From what I heard, it was interesting enough, but I have not found a practical use for it. 00:53:27 banisterfiend: if you like erlang; look into termite scheme on gambit; it's about as close to a scheme/erlang bastard child as you'll find 00:53:40 -!- light [n=ghost@unaffiliated/light] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:53:43 -!- dark is now known as light 00:53:49 (I plan on using termite myself some time in the future) 00:53:55 i dont really know much about erlang but it's really hyped, hyped only second to haskell 00:54:10 #haskell has more ppl in it than #c which is pretty crazy 00:54:25 :D 00:54:30 eli: I suppose then that Rozas has some different metric of active and maintained than I do, then. 00:54:42 well, #haskell contains all the world's #haskell programmers; #c contains only a subset of the worlds good c programmers 00:55:13 hehe 00:55:58 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 00:58:01 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 00:58:04 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:58:24 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 00:58:46 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:01:11 rcassidy_ [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has joined #scheme 01:02:19 -!- rcassidy [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:05:43 are there some Chicken users on here? 01:06:07 -!- dmoerner_ [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["leaving"] 01:11:11 -!- kniu [n=kniu@128.237.248.62] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:17:11 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.168.10] has quit [] 01:19:30 metasyntax: undoubtedly 01:20:06 Arelius [n=Indy@c-67-174-203-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:20:51 I was wondering because I tried to send a bug with chicken-bug but that failed and told me to mail it to chicken-janitors but that was rejected. 01:21:02 I ended up just sending it to chicken-users instead. 01:21:31 metasyntax: join #chicken 01:22:07 mejja: ah, thanks :) 01:22:25 -!- rcassidy_ [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:27:16 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFBAE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:30:14 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-323496.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 01:30:48 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:32:41 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-224-126.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 01:39:43 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@99-7-171-19.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 01:40:10 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:41:34 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 01:52:53 inimino [n=inimino@atekomi.inimino.org] has joined #scheme 01:55:30 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 01:59:35 -!- foof` is now known as foof 02:02:15 rcassidy [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has joined #scheme 02:02:39 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-224-126.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:02:50 So.... how about case-sensitivity? :-D 02:02:52 ye gods. 02:03:37 yates [n=yates@cpe-071-070-224-093.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:03:51 banisterfiend: in gimp, where does output from (print ...) go when the .scm file is invoked via a batch file (-b "file.scm")? 02:04:05 it's not to stdout, apparently 02:04:16 j85wilson: What about it? 02:04:29 mejja: have you seen r6rs-discuss lately? 02:04:31 what a mess. 02:04:33 You know better, mejja! 02:04:46 You too, j85wilson ;) 02:04:58 hey, I marked it as a troll. And I grinned! 02:05:25 yates: htf would i know? 02:05:54 Trolls always grin! Right before they eat you. 02:06:12 Well. If you're a small child. Or a billy-goat gruff, apparently. 02:06:14 yates: you could see if you can figure out the process number of the SIOD process, and then look in /proc 02:06:37 it might be something like dev/null, though 02:07:12 bah, do any of the bots here do messages? 02:07:35 rudybot tell j85wilson hi 02:08:29 rudybot: later "tell" j85wilson hi 02:08:29 j85wilson: expecting: later "tell" ... 02:08:33 wtf 02:08:57 rudybot: later tell j85wilson case insensitive is the correct default for scheme 02:08:57 minion: memo for j85wilson: mejja told me to tell you: case insensitive is the correct default for scheme 02:08:58 Remembered. I'll tell j85wilson when he/she/it next speaks. 02:09:16 what the heck... rudybot, you're so lazy. 02:09:17 j85wilson, memo from rudybot: mejja told me to tell you: case insensitive is the correct default for scheme 02:09:17 -!- rcassidy [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:09:22 oh yeah! 02:09:31 well tell mejja that he's a poopy head! 02:09:43 rcassidy [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has joined #scheme 02:10:00 rudybot: later tell j85wilson rudybot later tell mejja You Rule! 02:10:00 minion: memo for j85wilson: mejja told me to tell you: rudybot later tell mejja You Rule! 02:10:02 Remembered. I'll tell j85wilson when he/she/it next speaks. 02:10:10 minion: memo for jcowan: Thank you so much for bringing up the #@!$ Hamiltonian formula. I'm taking graduate E&M you insensitive clod! 02:10:10 Remembered. I'll tell jcowan when he/she/it next speaks. 02:10:10 j85wilson, memo from rudybot: mejja told me to tell you: rudybot later tell mejja You Rule! 02:10:26 nothingHappens_ [n=nothingH@12-226-78-3.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 02:10:32 -!- yates [n=yates@cpe-071-070-224-093.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Started wasting time elsewhere"] 02:10:40 I wonder why "tell" is in quotes in the rudybot help. 02:11:18 rudybot: later tell minion: rudybot: later tell mejja hi 02:11:19 minion: memo for minion:: j85wilson told me to tell you: rudybot: later tell mejja hi 02:11:19 Buzz off. 02:11:34 minion: thank you 02:11:35 no problem 02:11:38 minion: angry much? 02:11:39 please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 02:12:13 mejja, you seem to have the bot-fu, where I have only a lack. 02:13:57 -!- Inhuman [n=somethin@S0106001d7e47087f.su.shawcable.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:19:24 The (quite petty and unimportant) reason that I don't like case insensitivity is that you get people in here who say things like "well, you should be using LAMBDA instead of LET." ALL-CAPS identifiers remind me (horribly) of GW-BASIC. 02:20:02 CAPSLOCK is dead. It remains dead. And we have killed it. 02:21:30 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:21:59 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 02:23:27 could anyone think of a reason that PLT would read in a single char, but when you write it it would output as 3 chars? 02:24:01 oddly enough, when I do a char->integer of the char it is like 65533 or something absurd like that 02:24:40 eli surely knows. 02:24:44 example? 02:25:10 not sure.... 02:25:19 No, not surely knows, but an example is still needed. 02:25:47    02:25:49 unitricode! 02:25:49 hrm 02:25:55 eli: I have great faith in you. 02:26:10 lets see if I could somehow create an example 02:26:17 -!- stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:26:31 j85wilson: :) 02:26:31 Although I begin to doubt your judgment in feeding trolls (re r6rs-discuss, which I am slowly trudging my way through) 02:26:41 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 02:27:06 j85wilson: No no no -- you should have absolutely no faith in me vs trolling. I'm very powerless with that. 02:27:14 heh 02:28:05 Arelius: It's likely that you're reading some random binary junk as it it's a string, and getting back strange unicode characters -- and if you work with a terminal, then it might render them as a combination of several screen characters. 02:28:20 well 02:28:26 I am reading in a file 02:28:34 *sladegen* guesses locale mismatch... 02:28:42 opened with (open-input-file) 02:28:49 arcfide: You've sent a message that reads like he doesn't know Chris, which mush have sounded strange to someone who worked with hom for a long time. 02:28:55 and one of the chars.. I think is getting read in as unicode... 02:29:13 but when I write it to a port opened with open-output-file. 02:29:23 it's not writing a single unicode char 02:29:32 Arelius: opening the file is the same, the question is whether you're using strings to do IO or byte-strings. 02:30:10 if I (set c (read-char in-port)) 02:30:21 (write-char c out-port) 02:30:39 it gets written out as 3 chars instead of one. 02:32:02 Arelius: You want `read-byte' and `write-byte' if you want to deal with random data. 02:32:36 well it isn't random data 02:32:43 I think it's unicode chars 02:33:05 it does it on a certain quote for instance. 02:34:42 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-187-170.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:35:18 -!- rcassidy [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:35:28 rcassidy [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has joined #scheme 02:35:46 this char seems to be char 160 02:35:57 does read-char not read in extended ascii properlly? 02:38:35 Yeah, they all seem to just be extended ascii 02:38:45 but read-char doesn't seem to read it in as such 02:40:10 160 is a non breaking space (nbsp) 02:40:21 hrm 02:40:29 -!- rcassidy [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:41:14 rudybot: eval (string (integer->char #xA0)) 02:41:15 mejja: your sandbox is ready 02:41:15 mejja: ; Value: " " 02:41:50 Arelius: `read-char' reads a UTF-8 character. 02:41:55 hrm 02:42:01 rudybot: eval (read-char (open-input-string (string (integer->char 160)))) 02:42:02 j85wilson: your sandbox is ready 02:42:02 j85wilson: ; Value: #\u00A0 02:42:03 rudybot: eval (string->list (string (integer->char #xA0))) 02:42:04 mejja: ; Value: (#\u00A0) 02:42:16 interesting 02:42:35 rudybot: eval (char->integer (integer->char 160)) 02:42:36 j85wilson: ; Value: 160 02:42:57 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:43:08 ilitirit [n=john@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 02:43:26 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 02:43:42 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:44:10 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 02:45:39 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.168.10] has joined #scheme 02:47:09 Jstick [n=e@c-76-19-197-119.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:47:37 anyone in here for 213 02:48:12 not sure why it is reading from the file improperlly. 02:48:22 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:50:41 Jstick, is that a class? 02:50:43 213? 02:50:46 yes 02:50:48 oh 02:50:51 nvm 02:50:55 do you need homework help in matthias's class 02:51:08 yes 02:51:32 hopefully no one in here will directly tell you the answer but possibly guide you in the right way.. anyway ask away 02:52:07 i have write the sort method with an input of a Comparator 02:52:23 comparing books 02:53:11 i am confused on writing the helper "insert" method 02:53:43 becuase a list is of type ILo, i cant ask if (this.first < something) ... 02:54:24 and its Java btw 02:54:42 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-323496.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:54:42 >) 02:54:48 as im sure someone would have guessed 02:54:58 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:54:59 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-323496.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 02:55:08 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:55:57 no ideas i guess? ... 02:56:02 but you can call compare on a T right? 02:56:12 well i though 02:56:14 t 02:56:21 Guess, java? 02:56:33 this.first.compare, since first is of type T, but i cant 02:56:35 you are sorting the list, you want to call functions on elements of the list, not the list itself 02:56:42 right 02:56:48 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0BBD.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:57:07 so in the inseert method i want to check if the first.compare is less than the rest of the list 02:57:26 comparator is a separate object 02:57:26 but there must be something wrong w/ my design because i can not call compare method 02:57:27 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.49.245.251] has joined #scheme 02:57:36 the object that you call compare on is not this.first 02:58:20 because comparator takes (T, T) returns an int, is that what you are referring to 02:58:23 yes 02:58:28 so in this case, what is T 02:58:31 I mean abstractly 02:58:45 in terms of the list 02:58:55 a book that contains title, author, price 02:59:02 benny [n=benny@i577A01E7.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 02:59:08 I mean where do you have a T 02:59:17 what things are of type T in your list 02:59:25 first 02:59:56 the first of my cons is of type T, rest ILo 03:00:16 and do you have a Comparator object? 03:00:46 the sort method i am trying to define takes a Compartor 03:01:23 so now what can you do with these two things, the comparator object and first 03:01:28 unless you mean... where we had to define three classes the implement Comparator. one to compare Title, Author... 03:02:10 i know i know! /me /me! 03:02:15 hush! 03:02:19 well the Comparator (i named comp) can call .compare 03:02:31 right 03:02:34 and.. 03:02:50 ha .compare(first, ???) 03:02:55 right! 03:03:03 now just fill in the blanks somehow, possibly through magic 03:03:10 that's is what i have been trying to do actually 03:03:13 and failing i guess haha 03:03:31 it depends what sorting routine you are using 03:03:52 i have something liek this... 03:04:05 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:04:12 if (comp.compare(this.first, this.rest.sort(comp)) < 0) 03:04:25 but rest is type ILo not T 03:04:35 and that is why my brain hurts 03:04:48 and btw thank you for this 03:05:46 do you know what kind of sorting routine you are implementing or did you just do it that way becuase you've been taught that structural recursion says to do foo(x, rest) 03:07:03 What channel am I looking at?? 03:07:12 don't ask. 03:07:28 #brainhurts 03:07:30 Jstick: you really need to be using call/cc 03:07:36 well so far we have really just seen sort as follows: define the helper insert to compare, then defined in sort wouuld be this.rest.sort().insert() 03:07:53 My.space.bar.is.broken.too. 03:08:00 sorry, what do you mean call/cc 03:08:08 I'm just messing around. 03:08:12 Don't listen to me. 03:08:14 ha ok 03:08:22 *Cowmoo* wonders if he is in #c++ ? 03:08:23 call/cc is always on #topic. 03:08:26 call/cc is a Scheme construct. 03:08:29 Can you please take this to #neu-homework-help-in-java? 03:08:39 .oO(neu?) 03:08:39 You know, a Scheme construct. As in #scheme. Here. 03:08:48 Northeastern University, j85wilson. 03:08:49 In #scheme. 03:08:53 ah 03:10:01 Jstick, I dont know why you wuold have insert() just compare, its supposed to insert new items 03:11:32 Jstick: is now room Riastradh described. 03:12:00 yea. well i think ppl are upset w/ me that im talking about java 03:12:21 yes, talking about anything offtopic is extremely offensive and would be punishable by death if only people could do such a thing over irc 03:12:30 how dare you waste my bandwidth!!!!!11 03:12:41 Teh IRC death penalty!eleven 03:13:00 our tutors lead me to this channel 03:13:16 Why would somebody wander into #scheme for help with Java? Would you wander into #c for help with PHP, or into #macosx for help with Linux? 03:13:16 Bring your tutors here, and we will spank their naughty bottoms. 03:13:21 Jstick, why? 03:13:28 why I ask? dear god why?!?! 03:13:28 *cough* There is a room called #neu-homework-help-in-java now. 03:13:44 -!- Jstick [n=e@c-76-19-197-119.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #scheme 03:13:57 My work here is done. 03:14:09 Go in peace, to love and serve the Lord. 03:14:31 *j85wilson* is tempted to ask about PHP in ##c now... 03:14:40 so I wrote this java program.. 03:14:55 I am truley sorry for your lots 03:15:03 Enough Java! I get enough of that in my class. Hehe. 03:15:49 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-224-126.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 03:15:58 hundredelevenfact?!? 03:17:36 hmmm, oddly enough, ##C was much more civil than #macosx 03:17:49 rcassidy [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has joined #scheme 03:17:59 you mean they were only calling for regular murder instead of bloody murder? 03:18:26 all I got in ##C was "j85wilson: thats probably not going to turn out too well for you" and "j85wilson: If you want PHP help, I'd suggest you to go to QuakeNet/#php" 03:18:54 #macosx was..... vulgar. 03:18:54 How upsettingly mature of them. 03:19:04 ooh paste the #macosx responses 03:20:55 lisppaste: url 03:20:55 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 03:21:18 *arcfide* wonders why his Puerh Tea tastes sweet...:-? 03:21:20 j85wilson pasted "#macosx" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76059 03:22:28 Hahahaha. 03:22:29 Inhuman [n=somethin@24.109.86.170] has joined #scheme 03:22:33 Now that's a hoot. 03:22:55 "we will learn to hate you too" -- words to live by 03:22:56 "LOL TIMING" 03:23:18 Oh, I approve. Bravely done, j85wilson. 03:23:53 *j85wilson* bows 03:24:04 So this is why people troll: it's fun! 03:24:14 apparently. I never knew! 03:24:15 Riastradh: 213 is the intro course that uses Java, half of it in DrScheme -- so it tends to have course staff that like the on-topic language more than the off-topic one. 03:25:49 j85wilson: Nice... 03:25:56 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@c-67-174-203-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:25:56 ...the question is -- who goes next? 03:26:06 la la la 03:26:07 neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 03:26:16 hello, duncanm! 03:26:19 Looks like duncanm just volunteered. 03:26:20 do re mi 03:26:24 arcfide: Did you see my answer? 03:26:44 heh 03:26:51 Daemmerung: what did i do? 03:27:02 eli: Um, probably not, where was it? 03:27:26 duncanm: you volunteered to go into #linux and ask for help installing Vista. 03:27:32 heh 03:27:35 which #linux? 03:27:48 *Daemmerung* hems and haws 03:27:51 Ummmm.... 03:27:52 eli: Oh, found it. 03:27:52 hehe 03:28:02 arcfide: I mentioned Rozas because you posted a message telling him what MIT Scheme is and who Chris is, where he had worked a lot with both in the past. 03:28:09 Sorry, I had no intention for it to be read like that. 03:28:19 eli: is Rozas in the Boston area? 03:28:25 *Daemmerung* always get confused at the profusion of Linuces 03:28:34 duncanm: I have no idea. 03:28:44 Last I heard, I think, he was on the opposite coast, duncanm. 03:28:45 I actually was making a general observation that for so many people to claim MIT Scheme is dead, apparently fewer people than I thought actually know who Chris Hanson is. 03:29:03 Riastradh: he's Jinx, right? 03:29:06 Yes. 03:29:29 Who is who anyway? Does anyone really know? 03:29:35 The fact that it was his message to which I was replying was probably a bad choice, in retrospect, with which to make my point. 03:29:57 arcfide: Yes, that was my point. 03:30:13 Alright then, points all around! 03:30:22 so, duncanm, did you ask that on #linux yet? 03:30:32 eli: no, why would i? 03:30:35 *arcfide* idly wonders how #openbsd would react. 03:30:40 I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together! 03:30:47 duncanm: apparently it's Trollday. 03:30:58 i have better things to do ;-P 03:31:12 duncanm: I don't have a tv now, so I need some cheap entertainment. 03:31:25 eli: that's what flash games are for 03:31:40 I'm currently having fun in PVS proving that a boolean adder works. 03:31:47 ill do it 03:31:53 A vista question on #linux is so much more fun. 03:31:56 Riastradh: Yes! 03:32:27 how does one make a numbered list in scribble? i can't find it in the manual 03:32:36 AHHHH AN ON TOPIC QUESTION 03:32:46 *Daemmerung* hides 03:32:46 or rather, Beatles! whoops. 03:33:20 neilv: I don't think that there's a way... Ask away... (It's either that Matthew has some good reason against it, or that he never needed it.) 03:33:54 is there no Edwin for Mac OS X? 03:34:10 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-127.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 03:34:13 or any 'nice' way of using MIT Scheme for learning SICP 03:34:35 a freshman I know is reading it and wanted to know what Scheme to use 03:34:38 wants to, rather 03:34:39 Edwin runs perfectly well on OS X. 03:34:41 I use it every day. 03:34:45 Cowmoo: you can run Edwin in X11 03:34:52 oh really 03:34:52 Cowmoo: I even have a demo of using it on Mac OS X. 03:34:58 ok ok 03:35:01 Cowmoo: you could try DrScheme too 03:35:09 *arcfide* swats duncanm. 03:35:09 Why did you think that it doesn't work? 03:35:17 duncanm: I worry that guy might get confused when MIT Scheme-specific parts are enountered? 03:35:22 But MIT Scheme would be better for SICP, I think 03:35:28 eli, #linux was not very funny 03:35:29 eli: i don't want to keep asking about scribble on the email lists 03:35:40 Riastradh: casual googling yielded nothing, I'll look harder 03:35:54 Googling for what? 03:35:59 edwin os x 03:36:02 Just run `scheme --edwin --edit' after installing MIT Scheme. 03:36:08 neilv: Why not -- they're not off-topic or flaming or anything. 03:36:11 ohh 03:36:23 hah ok thanks...never used MIT Scheme before 03:36:46 eli: one can only ask so many questions. i want so save some questions for more important things 03:36:50 neilv: And it better comes fomr someone who needs it than from someone who asks for the sake of asking. 03:37:00 heh 03:37:34 jonrafkind: No? I'm disappointed. Perhaps #osx is just more entertaining that wat. 03:38:38 that wat? 03:38:43 can't parse than. 03:40:07 so far only #scheme and #macosx gets any points for offtopic whining 03:40:23 ugh, s/wat/way/ 03:44:04 dum de dum 03:44:17 *elf* whines offtopic. 03:44:20 LA LA LA 03:44:25 *elf* calculated the voting results if anyone is interested. 03:44:36 *j85wilson* interested is 03:44:45 Didn't someone else do that as well? 03:44:50 no idea. 03:45:01 ive spent a chunk of the day figuring out how stv works. :) 03:45:06 I think so. I saw a lisppaste, but wasn't able to unambiguously interpret it. 03:45:09 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:45:15 stv? 03:45:18 elf: Oh! And I've got some questions about Chicken. Why can't I find release dates for each release? 03:45:21 single transferable vote. 03:45:27 arcfide: clarify? 03:45:33 http://paste.lisp.org/display/76028 03:45:37 (there was only one shoe-in.) 03:45:47 Why not just use the code they are using? 03:45:59 elf: When I go to the Chicken site, none of the releases have release dates on them. 03:46:07 I can't see when one was released. 03:46:22 arcfide: cause i didnt know that the code for what they were using was posted yet :) 03:46:31 it was fun, at first, anyway :) 03:47:09 i got the same results. 03:47:11 thats good to know. 03:47:17 arcfide: hrm. url? 03:48:07 03:48:13 ah. 03:49:39 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #scheme 03:50:11 interesting. 03:50:36 yeah, i dont remember there ever being dates on the page, but the documentation doesnt have a date anymore either, which is weird. 03:51:02 Yes. 03:51:11 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:52:50 dhess [n=user@bothawui.bothan.net] has joined #scheme 03:52:50 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:53:05 jcowan, just curious -- how do you find the energy to keep up with the R6RS process discussions? 03:53:33 I basically spent most of yesterday and today doing so, and now I'm done. 03:53:34 jcowan, memo from j85wilson: Thank you so much for bringing up the #@!$ Hamiltonian formula. I'm taking graduate E&M you insensitive clod! 03:53:58 minion, thanks so much. 03:53:58 no problem 03:57:14 I'm sure that this Rozas fellow is well respected and known and all, but on the list he really comes off sounds like a goon. 03:57:24 s/sounds/sounding/ 03:57:27 j85wilson: this is the r6rs list? 03:57:31 yeah 03:58:45 duncanm: if you haven't kept up with it, by all means don't bother. There's very little worth saying that's been said in the case sensitivity thread I am referencing. 03:58:53 but I just can't stop reading it. 03:59:18 I should say very little, considered as a percentage of the total text in the thread. 03:59:18 j85wilson: oh, i'm no interest at all ;-) 03:59:22 kk 04:01:10 Anyhow, blame the American Mathematical Society for alla those fonts. 04:01:57 Oh, but I like and use on a regular basis all those fonts. 04:02:07 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 04:02:19 I just didn't much like the reminder that my next problem set is coming up due. 04:02:39 I solved that problem by not getting any degrees. 04:03:04 bah. One is required in my line of work. 04:03:07 Two in fact. 04:03:20 arcfide, `the recent snapshot' and `the somewhat active CVS log' hardly make a resounding report of MIT Scheme's activity... 04:05:11 Riastradh: Indeed. 04:05:20 Riastradh: but it is *something*. 04:05:32 I quite understand. I am a dinosaur, though admittedly Cretaceous rather than Jurassic. 04:05:53 *jcowan* merges arcfide and his "real" identity in his topic maps 04:06:00 Hah! 04:06:08 jcowan: It's not that hard. ;-) 04:06:10 At least they're not in the BMP. 04:06:14 I have a topic map? 04:06:17 -!- rcassidy [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:06:33 You are a topic in my topic map -- but I share. 04:07:58 People seem to disconnect my real identity from my username, is there some problem with it? 04:08:10 No, I just simply didn't know it. 04:08:15 -!- light [n=ghost@unaffiliated/light] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 04:08:21 Heheh. 04:08:30 *arcfide* shrugs. 04:08:38 jcowan: t rex? 04:08:44 When I referred on r6rs-discuss to "foof's idea" about something, I got several inquiries: "Who is foof?" 04:08:52 j85wilson: Hardly. 04:08:54 Hahaha. 04:08:55 Well, maybe in size. 04:09:10 *Riastradh* has set nickname to 0xBD2D02B0 04:09:17 (just so you don't mix anything up with my identity) 04:09:18 hrm. Who is foof? 04:09:33 *j85wilson* mixes some rum with a few identities. 04:09:43 Cicero is Tully. 04:09:59 Rameau is Lully. 04:10:04 yerk! 04:10:41 arcfide is Aaron Hsu 04:10:43 foof is a contraction of `Little Bunny Foo-Foo'. 04:10:53 Excuse me. I meant: `foof' is a contraction of `Little Bunny Foo-Foo'. 04:11:07 j85wilson: You didn't know that? 04:11:17 I think I did, but I'd forgotten perhaps? 04:11:31 Pop quiz: Who's Jinx, a.k.a. Bill? 04:11:41 And all that work I put towards giving an useful whois report...*sigh*. 04:11:45 I get you mixed up with somebody else's nick here... can't remember who now. 04:11:57 heh. 04:12:09 Jinx is Chris Hanson. This was discussed earlier. Right? 04:12:17 Ghu, I hope not! 04:12:23 dang. 04:12:23 That would be a massive over-merger 04:12:36 j85wilson fails the class. Fail another one and you'll be on academic probation. 04:12:49 Well, last quarter I had two students who had the same name as my advisor. 04:12:57 See, arcfide, it's only now that I find out that you and I are both Gopher wieners. 04:13:22 jcowan: Haha, you must have missed all the discussions in this channel about Scheme and Gopher. 04:13:31 gopher wieners are very small 04:13:38 usually. 04:13:44 arcfide: R.V. Dently 04:13:59 Dirk Gently 04:14:08 E.C. Bentley 04:14:28 Muttley 04:14:48 Murphy Hendly 04:15:05 No fair, sock puppeting our rudybot! 04:15:07 rudybot: a most coherent contribution. I'm proud of you. 04:15:08 j85wilson: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 04:15:35 rudybot should be merged with incubot. 04:15:35 offby1 must be lurking? Or can rudybot be sockpuppetted by others now? 04:15:44 We're talking a very well hung gopher, in this case. 04:16:36 Huh? Did I miss something? Well hung gophers? 04:16:38 Speaking for myself, I'd be in favor of such a merge 04:17:13 You mean hung up, strung out and skinned? 04:17:36 Drat. 04:17:54 who is rudybot? 04:17:54 *jcowan* wonders whether "car" and "cdr" made sense even to IBM 704 Lisp hackers, or if they only made sense to Lisp *implementers*. 04:17:59 Nonsense. Let a hundred bots bloom; let a thousand schools of Scheme implementation, contend. 04:18:10 Provided they all implement RnRs, though. 04:18:23 I still intend to write Lobotomy and bring him here. 04:18:36 It might help if some acronym were chosen that was not in fact an English word. 04:18:39 instead of car. 04:18:45 What was the difference, jcowan? 04:18:50 I was thinking that if I was elected to the Steering Committee, I'd make sure the next report was called the Final Report On The Algorithmic Language Scheme. 04:19:07 FRS? 04:19:12 Riastradh: Surely not all Lisp users were also Lisp implementor even back then. 04:19:26 And then it could have as a sequel, the FFRS. 04:19:27 call it (n-1) Report... 04:19:28 FRS = Friggin' Real Scheme 04:19:34 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #scheme 04:19:37 To be followed by the FnRS, ad infinitum. 04:20:10 $lim_{n \to \infty} R^n RS$ 04:20:13 Pronounced Froze? 04:20:41 RnRS diverges towards chaos. 04:20:54 *elf* laughs. 04:20:56 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:21:01 we're screwed if R>1 04:21:08 hey sladegen 04:21:11 No, that's #scheme. RnRS rises and hence must converge. 04:21:29 la la la 04:21:35 R need not be a real number, sladegen. 04:21:36 oh hey! I've got an idea for R7RS. Common Lisp has this cool feature where the function and value namespaces are separated. I think they call it a l2sp or something. 04:21:48 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:21:49 As opposed to a l1sp? 04:21:50 It could just as well be a linear operator, or an element of some more general function space. 04:21:56 Riastradh: imaginary spirals ain't fun either. 04:22:22 Let's make a Lisp-9: Namespaces are mapped directly onto brain biologies. 04:22:39 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has left #scheme 04:22:48 hmmm, is R^z RS entire? 04:22:52 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.168.10] has quit [] 04:22:56 Can we integrate along the real axis? 04:23:02 *jcowan* displays the following Scheme-standard timeline: 0..1......23.4.........5.........6 04:23:50 Man, jinx is going to win the Blume award for bitching about a language that he no longer uses. 04:23:54 j85wilson: No, no, no. From now on all identifiers will have to be prefixed with either var: or func:, so we always know which is which. 04:24:05 *Daemmerung* deletes another score of messages 04:24:11 At least he did contribute to it more than vacuously, Daemmerung. 04:24:21 What about macros, jcowan? 04:24:24 Riastradh: I should also point out that I do read quickly, though writing messages does take rather more time. 04:24:33 Jinx is Rozas? 04:24:35 I must have missed the substantive contributions, Riastradh. 04:24:37 Yes, j85wilson. 04:24:40 ah 04:24:50 incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 04:25:02 I knew that Rozas was called Bill, because someone said as much, and googling for [Jinx Bill] confirmed the connection. 04:25:05 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #scheme 04:25:07 well, I still maintain that he comes off as rather obtuse on the list. 04:25:14 rovar [n=rick@96.246.152.33] has joined #scheme 04:25:20 to ask a stupid question: wasn't r6rs finalised last year? what's going on on the list? 04:25:32 aspect: this is r7. 04:25:36 Of course, so does eli in that thread. 04:25:37 incubot: welcome back; i was missing my fix of stochastic feedback 04:25:38 A discussion of the future of Scheme, before and (now) after the Steering Committee election. 04:25:39 -!- incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:25:44 They're discussing some of the finer points of selecting a committee for what may be the R7RS, aspect. 04:26:04 These finer points include case sensitivity, case sensitivity, multicultural insensitivity, case sensitivity, geopolitical insensitivity, and did I mention case sensitivity? 04:26:04 ok, good. just making sure :) 04:26:08 Riastradh: Hah! 04:26:20 *elf* is insensitive in all cases. 04:26:29 *jcowan* belly-laughs for the first time today. 04:26:40 But by far the largest volume of case sensitivity messages are eli and Rozas sparring. 04:27:12 *arcfide* wonders sometimes about our dear friend eli. 04:27:14 *elf* ponders whether R[z(n+1)=z(n)^2+c]RS. 04:27:16 There was also an offlist discussion by Eli, Rozas, and me anent English grammar. 04:27:21 I got a hold of scheme48, I'm trying to load the prescheme package and ps-compiler, however, I can't seem to load both inside the scheme repl 04:27:28 I'd sarcastically say something woefully vulgar involving racial slurs about a Spaniard and an Israeli duking it out, but I can't think of derogatory terms for them. 04:27:33 Like I said, I don't have a TV... 04:27:42 *elf* ponders whether R[z(n+1)=z(n)^2+c]RS is how the standardisation process works, or merely how the implementations work... 04:27:50 Drat, a real question with a real point. 04:27:56 The only derogatory term for Israeli I know is DIB... 04:28:00 So this Spaniard and Israeli wwalk into a bar.... 04:28:03 -!- AllNight^ [n=nobody@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:28:05 rovar, enter the ps-compiler directory, start up Scheme48, and type `,exec ,load load-ps-compiler.scm'. 04:28:05 *j85wilson* wonders if it is sad that he can think of derogatory terms.... 04:28:15 jcowan: DIB? 04:28:16 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 04:28:32 Riastradh: I tried that with 1.8, but it went boom because prescheme was not defined. 04:28:37 Riastradh: that fails with a bunch of undefineds, because Pre-Scheme needs to be loaded 1st 04:28:40 Whoops, sorry. 04:28:41 First run 04:28:54 That's my queue to head to bed. 04:28:57 ,config ,load ../scheme/prescheme/interfaces.scm ../scheme/prescheme/package-defs.scm 04:29:00 Then run 04:29:02 ,exec ,load load-ps-compiler.scm 04:29:04 Good night everyone. 04:29:05 arcfide, you just blew up my head. 04:29:16 with your terrible pun 04:29:17 I think he meant "cue" 04:29:19 however, if i cd to scheme/prescheme, I can load that, but then I can't load the ps compiler 04:29:27 gnight arcfide. 04:29:27 or perhaps "queue" in the sense "pigtail" 04:29:30 Type exactly what I typed, rovar, not something else. 04:29:33 jcowan: DIB? 04:29:35 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-236-77-228.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:29:47 *arcfide* chuckles. 04:29:50 Dear Israeli Brethren or Dumb Israeli Bastards, depending on who's asking. 04:29:56 Dib was a character on the TV show Invader Zim, as I recall. 04:30:01 Riastradh: from the prescheme dir? 04:30:09 No, from within the ps-compiler/ directory, rovar. 04:30:10 Cues are for pool players, Queues are for Computer Hackers. 04:30:11 jcowan: j85wilson mean real point... 04:30:12 jcowan: Ah, I never heard either. 04:30:22 What's quiche for, then, arcfide? 04:30:24 incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 04:30:40 It's what Quiche Eaters eat? 04:30:44 Riastradh: the French? 04:30:44 And don't ask what kickers kick. 04:30:56 the complement of the set of real men? 04:31:14 I like a good quiche now and again, elf, but then again, my implementation has a French name.... 04:31:35 Riastradh: Error: No such file or directory 04:31:40 i like quiche too, but i wouldnt exactly self-describe as a 'real man' in any case. 04:31:41 -!- incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:31:47 My implementation has an Anglo-French name 04:31:59 Whoops. Sorry, rovar, I made a typo. `interface.scm', not `interfaces.scm'. 04:32:09 Alright, I really am gone. 04:32:20 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-203-229.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 04:32:46 Riastradh: success. 04:33:10 If the message pointing to the ballots was published on r6rs-discuss, it's not in the archive. 04:33:11 made an image 04:33:17 And I can't remember the @*#$ URL. 04:33:18 hmmmm, interestingly enough, I don't think I've ever seen anyone use a blackboard-bold greek character, jcowan. 04:33:25 Can someone look it up, please? 04:33:27 Nor, say Fraktur greek. 04:33:31 -!- Inhuman [n=somethin@24.109.86.170] has quit [] 04:33:46 rcassidy [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has joined #scheme 04:33:54 ah, Fraktur greek is not included, nvm. 04:33:55 -!- rcassidy [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has quit [Client Quit] 04:34:04 Yeah, that would be tres bizarre. 04:34:15 Je suis d'accord. 04:34:22 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["leaving"] 04:34:31 Israelis are device-independent bitmaps? Tres hateful, that. 04:34:46 jcowan: which message? 04:35:03 jcowan: pointing to the ballots as in giving the url for the ballot? 04:35:12 the next person that says Tres gets stabbed with a lit cigarrette 04:35:19 Yes. 04:35:25 that wasnt to the list. 04:35:29 I thought not 04:35:34 unfortunately I deleted it 04:35:43 but what I really want to know is, where are the ballots? 04:35:55 oh, you mean the preliminary ballots? 04:36:00 rovar: Hey, it was in a French context. "Bizarre" is French. 04:36:01 I do. 04:36:32 No problem if a smoker wants to spar with me. My wind ain't what it used to be, but that just evens the handicap. 04:36:34 jcowan, and vice versa 04:36:35 jcowan: you read John Rose's blog too? 04:36:49 jcowan: http://www.r6rs.org/steering-committee/election/preliminary-ballots.scm 04:37:12 incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 04:37:17 i wish i had known that they posted the code, i spent all day writing an implementation of stv. 04:37:23 (got the same results) 04:37:30 heh 04:37:49 Riastradh: thanks for your help 04:37:56 duncanm: Yes 04:38:00 and jcowan, thanks for pointing me to prescheme 04:38:01 eli: thanks 04:38:13 *jcowan* merges more topics in the map 04:38:21 time for sleep. 04:38:23 & 04:38:25 -!- incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:38:38 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:38:42 Whoa, rovar just put himself into the background. THat's a good trick. 04:38:54 fg 04:38:55 hmm, these spicy maple pecans from Whole Foods are quite addictive 04:39:05 Yeah, well instead of that I just terminate myself. An even better trick. 04:39:11 *grumble* 04:39:13 & 04:39:18 cute. 04:39:24 kill -SIGHIP $self.pid 04:39:29 disown %1 04:39:33 um, SIGHUP 04:39:55 Daemmerung: you seem to be suddenly wearing clothes made of hemp. 04:40:05 the problem is that I need to sleep, because two weeks ago I ran fork() 04:40:05 xyzzy. 04:40:06 damned SIGHIPpies. 04:40:15 rovar: wait 04:40:27 and my child process is sleeping, so it's time for me to sleep 04:40:42 That's correct, rovas 04:40:46 wait, and then reap the child process. 04:40:52 Enjoy those three sweet hours. 04:40:55 Bleaccch. 04:41:05 goodnight, rovar. 04:41:17 hopefully you sleep and not usleep. 04:41:20 I once knew a programmer who went on a quest to eliminate all metaphors of killing from programming jargon 04:41:26 oh dear. 04:41:33 they're all over field theory, too. 04:41:40 annihilators! 04:41:50 g'night ; really leaving this time. 04:41:52 reaping zombies, pfui 04:41:58 Such and such annihilates the vacuum 04:42:04 no more clean floors for you! 04:42:12 *elf* releases a forkbomb and brings about the zombie apocalypse. 04:42:16 amputated diagrams 04:42:18 jcowan: it was the user ed weenies who were most into the "nonviolent language." They really really didn't like abort(). 04:43:12 Which is fucking retarded, but whatever. It was long ago. Hopefully they all choked on tofu in the interim. 04:43:26 *jcowan* wonders if a forkbomb can still bring down his Linux 2.6 k 04:44:05 *jcowan* picks up Dorian and gives him a calming cuddle 04:44:22 jcowan: the answer is 'yes', by the way 04:44:43 I have my memory limits set to like 500 megabytes per process, and some processes still fail at that. 04:44:47 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:44:58 unless you have a ulimit on the number of processes 04:45:06 eventually the forkbomb will eat all your available RAM :P 04:45:12 nom nom nom 04:45:14 Exponential growth beats O(1) scheduling every time. 04:45:20 Yeah that's a good idea for any case. 04:46:15 *rudybot* purrs expectantly 04:46:36 rudybot: eval (forkbomb) 04:46:36 j85wilson: error: reference to undefined identifier: forkbomb 04:46:50 oh right. This isn't perl. 04:46:59 rudybot: eval (system "ls") 04:47:00 *offby1: your r5rs sandbox is ready 04:47:00 *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: system in module: 'program 04:47:03 poo 04:47:12 So again, were there 704 Lisp hackers (I started to write "kackers") who didn't know assembly language? 04:47:54 *jcowan* looks up "abort" in the OED 04:49:30 Yeah, "force a miscarriage" is indeed the primary (oldest) meaning, from which the rest are derived. 04:49:46 jcowan: I did not know that. 04:50:00 "abort vt.,vit. To bort loudly." 04:50:38 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["STRAWBERRY"] 04:50:44 To bort loadly where no man he borted before! 04:50:54 *j85wilson* borts quietly in a corner by himself 04:51:04 To bort loudly where no man has borted before! 04:51:08 I should invest in the online. I've stopped consulting my printed copy since my eyesight went to hell. 04:51:08 How on earth do you use the OED jcowan? 04:51:10 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:51:12 Are you at a library? 04:51:19 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 04:51:25 one can use it if one has access to a campus 04:51:48 Oh... 04:51:51 even just telnet 04:52:01 if you're sufficiently clever 04:52:02 I haven't had access to a university for a while... especially not telnet. 04:52:18 No telnet; my daughter's university library web site. 04:52:27 when I need some journal while at home, I generally use vnc. 04:52:33 They firewall all the computers at universities, so even if you leave a telnet server running, you can't access it from outside. 04:52:45 *offby1* laughs cruelly 04:52:48 ssh tunnel 04:53:05 They especially firewall port 22 :p 04:53:09 get into the U; ssh to your home box, with an incoming tunnel ... arrange to keep the connection alive ... 04:53:10 bort, n.: The fragments removed from diamonds in cutting, when too small for jewellery; also diamonds of too coarse a quality for jewellery: used to make diamond powder. 04:53:30 Oh offby1, so like have it polling your home computer trying to connect... 04:54:30 Daemmerung: I misspoke: just plain "miscarry" is an older sense. But in either case, touchy. 04:54:36 Of course that means anyone discovering this automatic poller will gain the ability to logon to your home machine. 04:54:59 only to a dummy account with shell=/bin/cat 04:55:01 My home machine is behind a firewall anyhow, alas. 04:55:09 We should ban raise too. You don't raise your exceptions to believe in abortion! 04:55:15 Is it possible to create reverse tunnels with ssh? 04:55:24 Yes it is jcowan 04:55:27 jcowan: naturally! -R port:localhost:port 04:55:30 Arelius [n=Indy@c-67-174-203-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:55:42 Huh. Learn 2^5 new things every day. 04:55:50 You don't have control over your own firewall, jcowan? 04:56:17 My firewall, yes; my ISP's firewall, no. 04:56:23 Oh I can ssh to any old machine on our campus 04:56:34 so long as I have an account there. 04:56:45 I can't make a connection terminating on my machine from anywhere outside the local net. 04:57:06 Your ISP has a freaking firewall... 04:57:08 s/I can't/No one can 04:57:10 so you need a third shell account. SSH tunnel to there, then reverse tunnel to there from the U. 04:57:24 Those cost money j85wilson. 04:57:26 sounds like time for a new ISP 04:57:37 I have a shell account at ccil.org, but when I try to do what you describe, it hollers "administratively denied" 04:57:39 synx, I'm pretty sure you can find free (albeit sketchy) ones. 04:57:45 ah 04:58:09 If an ISP has tactics like that, they probably are secure in their regional monopoly already. 04:58:15 Quite so. 04:58:26 It's the cable company or the phone company around here. 04:58:31 right. 04:58:45 lucky for me, our cable company is actually quite nice about leaving all the ports open. 04:58:45 I use the cable company; they are more reliable, and no more tyrannical. 04:58:51 Comcast versus Ma Bell 04:59:00 I mean Verizon 04:59:02 bleh 04:59:11 Time Warner Cable vs. Verizon 04:59:29 My ISP blocked my email port for incoming connections. :( 04:59:46 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-187-170.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:01:27 odd. Our Time Warner doesn't block anything 05:01:51 synx, I'd be really pissed if they did that, since my mail server is the machine I'm typing on. 05:02:39 Hm... Roadrunner is bad news. They're like the AOL of cable, with an extra helping of Hitler. 05:02:59 I have no problems with them so far, strange as that may sound. 05:03:14 wow .. relying on an ISP to provide a static IP and permit inbound SMTP makes my hair stand on end 05:03:16 As long as they left me ssh, though, I think I'd be ok in the end. 05:03:23 j85wilson: yeah totally. And supposedly Comcast has never unblocked someone they hit. They put fine print in their policy that lets them arbitrarily ban people without right to appeal. 05:03:24 not static IP 05:03:29 Dynamic DNS. 05:03:50 Dynamic DNS bleh... it does work sort of. 05:04:04 I'm not exactly a high volume server 05:04:11 I host pretty much one address 05:04:13 that possibly even more so. who's providing the ddns service? with so many moving parts, what's the cost of lost email? 05:04:21 Heh, right j85wilson 05:04:27 dnsexit provides ddns 05:04:46 aspect: There are a few free DDNS services out there. It's just a name after all. 05:04:51 Even when my power goes out, messages seem to just get held up until I come back up. 05:05:12 Your delivery mechanism relies on the good graces of remote servers? 05:05:29 You're a more trusting tentacle beast than I, sir. 05:05:33 yeah, but like I said, I don't do anything that needs 5 nines or antyhing 05:05:35 synx: the "free" bit doesdn't bother me, the "reliability" bit does. I've had my share of bad experiences, like being out of the country meeting lots of cool people giving them an email address on a free service that promptly went off the air for 3 weeks 05:05:35 Yeah SMTP has a pretty good retry support. You usually have to be down for a day or so before messages start bouncing. 05:05:41 All email delivery relies on the kindness of strange email servers. 05:06:10 I've been using dnsexit for over a year with no problems. 05:06:17 All email delivery relies on the kindness of herr DNS root servers. 05:06:23 I've found that remote servers are for more polite about sending one retry than about continuing to do so until your DDNS deigns to resolve to something with an open port. 05:06:26 And Internet routers too oh noes 05:06:38 it helps that my actual public facing IP rarely changes 05:06:51 Mine changes I think every 2 weeks 05:07:06 I think mine changes if I reboot the cable modem. 05:07:32 gnomon: such as your neighbour who got assigned your previous IP before your link came back up and renewed the ddns entry? 05:07:48 I would like to have a special email server with a static IP and stuff, but I'd also like a pony :p 05:07:49 aspect, just so. 05:07:51 (or before it propagated ..) 05:08:24 like I said, veery low cost for lost mails for me (at this address) 05:08:29 *aspect* uses a linode. it's fairly cheap, and having my own xen instance is useful for many things 05:08:34 and I haven't lost any that I've heard back about yet. 05:08:41 ooh, bash 4.0 has associative arrays 05:08:51 foof: who are you? 05:08:53 hey foof 05:08:53 fairly cheap for you aspect. 05:08:59 Yeah, they're catching up with the awk state of the art about 25 years ago. 05:09:20 j85wilson: just some guy 05:09:23 ok 05:09:36 synx: heh. maybe I should point out the cost of bandwidth for a home connection in downunderia ... the linode is insignificant by comparison :) 05:09:44 I've been trying to figure out who people are, and somebody mentioned that you were a real person. 05:09:55 Lies. foof is a bot. 05:10:09 http://synthcode.com/ has some projects that for whatever reason I felt compelled to make public 05:10:09 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176217091.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:10:11 He's sarahbot's successor, several versions along. 05:10:13 foof: eval ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) 05:10:20 aspect: 42 05:10:43 foof: eval (halting-problem 'solution) 05:10:43 aspect: It's at least a 20% increase in monthly cost, and I really can't spare that sorry... 05:11:04 j85wilson: #t 05:11:59 synx: fair enough. I guess you could join a coop like bur.st, but that's a whole other minefield 05:12:25 mmm coop... 05:12:37 good for chicken hosting 05:14:38 /join #chicken-coop 05:14:46 hmmm, I really want some coffee. But then I wouldn't sleep. 05:14:50 bah. 05:22:16 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@c-67-174-203-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:27:09 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176197175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:30:38 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 05:31:19 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:35:15 -!- dhess [n=user@bothawui.bothan.net] has quit ["xxx"] 05:36:11 i thought i submitted this to planet 3.5 years ago, but somehow it did not make it in until now. http://www.neilvandyke.org/soundex-scheme/ 05:48:14 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:53:00 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 05:55:36 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:55:41 brandelune [n=suzume@pl395.nas932.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:56:42 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:59:15 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:59:57 andrei [n=user@c-98-223-64-197.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:02:39 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 06:21:07 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-224-126.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 06:23:05 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:23:14 -!- dfeuer is now known as anonnymouse 06:23:20 -!- anonnymouse is now known as dfeuer 06:27:57 -!- dfeuer is now known as BazookaJoe 06:28:00 -!- BazookaJoe is now known as dfeuer 06:33:24 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 06:37:12 -!- dfeuer is now known as davidfeuer 06:37:22 -!- davidfeuer is now known as dfeuer 06:42:54 *jonrafkind* gasps at the 90 unread emails in r6rs-discuss 06:43:05 sorry. 06:43:16 I didn't contribute very many, but every little bit counts. 06:43:19 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 06:45:01 m? 06:45:12 *elf* has been ignoring r6rs. 06:45:16 although its useful. 06:45:36 i signed up however long ago just to point out a typo in some document 06:45:40 its the first time in years that ive received more (at least semi)-legit mail than spam. 06:45:41 now I stay for the fireworks 06:48:46 meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-236-77-228.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 06:49:12 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 06:52:57 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:53:51 nataraj [n=natarajs@122.174.74.129] has joined #scheme 06:54:14 hi 06:54:21 i m new to macros 06:54:24 (define-macro (or a b) 06:54:24 `(let ((temp ,a)) 06:54:24 (if temp 06:54:24 temp 06:54:24 ,b)) 06:54:43 which implementation do you use? 06:54:50 mzscheme 06:55:08 mz has r4-style macros? 06:55:21 *elf* rubs his eyes. 06:55:41 is this R4 style? 06:56:06 reference to undefined identifier: define-macro 06:56:08 it looks like a lowlevel unhygenic one to me. 06:56:14 oh 06:56:35 yes, cause mz only has syntax macros, i believe. 06:56:41 im hardly an mz expert. ask eli. 06:56:56 suggest me a better tool 06:57:23 hm? 06:57:28 BTW, anybody working on armpit scheme for microcontrollers? 06:58:04 http://armpit.sourceforge.net/ 06:58:29 i wanna use it for arm7 boards 06:58:41 `r4-style macros', elf? 06:58:45 able to successfully load the scheme interpreter 06:58:55 on the Arm7 06:59:14 riastradh: im tired, how would you describe em? 06:59:14 would like to know somebody using this scheme 06:59:39 Not by reference to a report on Scheme in which they do not occur. 06:59:40 nataraj: (define-syntax or (syntax-rules () ((or a b) (let ((tmp a)) (if tmp tmp b))))) 06:59:40 riastradh: first thing that came to mind was pre-r5 nonhygenic, so i said r4. its not strictly correct, i know. 07:00:16 Note that the R4RS includes SYNTAX-RULES. 07:00:33 elf: I would call them defmacros, or common lisp style macros 07:00:45 yeah, got it write in mz 07:01:03 foof, thanx 07:01:21 so this isnt scheme macro? 07:01:35 maybe? That's a complex question. 07:01:38 better: (define-syntax or (syntax-rules () ((or) #f) ((or a) a) ((or a b ...) (let ((tmp a)) (if tmp tmp (or b ...)))))) 07:01:44 There are various reasons that defmacros shouldn't be. 07:01:56 But in many schemes, they do exist. 07:02:02 *elf* sighs. 07:02:35 nataraj, in Scheme, one defines macros, or extends the syntax, with DEFINE-SYNTAX. 07:02:49 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 07:03:12 ok 07:04:17 i am looking at a scheme code for md5 encryption 07:04:23 `MD5 encryption'? 07:04:27 What's that supposed to mean? 07:04:42 -!- nataraj [n=natarajs@122.174.74.129] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:05:11 nataraj [n=natarajs@122.174.74.129] has joined #scheme 07:05:19 hi 07:05:25 md5.scm 07:05:58 lots of weird stuff 07:06:27 (And why are you concerning yourself with MD5 these days?) 07:06:39 how does scheme evaluate square braces? 07:06:52 well, one client wants it 07:07:01 there is no square braces in scheme 07:07:20 In some Scheme systems, paired square delimiters are interpreted exactly as paired round delimiters. 07:07:24 #'(let[n c]) 07:07:39 rudybot: eval (list [list 1]) 07:07:40 ayrnieu: your sandbox is ready 07:07:40 ayrnieu: ; Value: ((1)) 07:08:25 (define-syntax (word stx) 07:08:26 (syntax-case stx () 07:08:26 ;; normal version 07:08:26 [(word #:new c) 07:08:38 oops 07:08:42 sorry for this 07:08:42 Please use lisppaste to paste code: 07:08:43 lisppaste: url 07:08:44 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 07:10:42 syntax-case is part of r6rs? 07:10:46 Yes. 07:11:03 *sladegen* dangs. 07:11:40 -!- neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:12:18 so perhaps square braces has been r6rsified, too /me is out of touch. 07:12:27 Yes. 07:12:31 Nataraj pasted "Mr" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76065 07:13:39 ha... good lack using r6rs in r5rs schemes... then. 07:13:59 Do you have a question, nataraj? 07:14:28 is this R6 then? 07:14:50 No, there is lexical syntax in that fragment not defined in (and therefore prohibited by) the R6RS. 07:15:03 That looks like PLT v<=3 code to me. 07:15:33 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-141-69.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 07:16:02 somebody answer me on scheme on embedded devices 07:16:04 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.168.10] has joined #scheme 07:16:22 Sorry, I don't know about that. 07:16:23 -!- nataraj [n=natarajs@122.174.74.129] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:16:55 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:18:39 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 07:20:22 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-236-77-228.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["has been attacked by a grue"] 07:22:05 -!- andrei [n=user@c-98-223-64-197.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:22:50 Riastradh: It's part of the md5 library, and it's still there. 07:33:30 -!- tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:33:45 tessier [n=treed@68.15.4.26] has joined #scheme 07:34:46 twb [n=twb@nat064.cyber.com.au] has joined #scheme 07:34:59 Which, if any, pro-R6RS implementations target the JVM? 07:35:13 None of which I am aware. 07:35:26 OK, what about R5RS ones? 07:35:35 SISC 07:35:38 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 07:35:40 ...oh, sorry, what do you mean by `target the JVM'? 07:35:41 Thanks. 07:35:46 `Run on the JVM and can interact with Java libraries'? 07:35:52 Broadly, yes. 07:35:55 Or `involve a Scheme->JVM compiler'? 07:36:30 A PHP weenie at work has drunk the clojure kool-aid and I want to basically say "look, use something that at least has a chance of being portable and isn't just made up by some guy in a basement" 07:36:39 Ah. 07:36:42 (Clojure being http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clojure) 07:37:30 supposing I take a list of code points, make it a string, and encode that into bytes. 07:37:33 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:37:52 Then I make the bytes a list of integers and pretend that they're code points, and repeat that process. 07:38:17 How do I decode something like that? It's like, doubly encoded in a character encoding. 07:38:32 I probably just answered my own question. 07:38:41 I also pointed out to that the JVM is primarily for statically typed languages, but you know how idiots are. 07:39:56 twb: dude, you're taking on the php hordes? good luck 07:40:03 klutometis: just this one 07:40:09 (I had a fling with clojure ( http://github.com/ayrnieu/clj-actors ) , but the main effect of it was to send me off to Common Lisp.) 07:40:20 He maintains out timesheeting / task management system :-( 07:40:35 twb: they spontaneously generate, though; and evince borg-like solidarity 07:40:40 Recently we taught him why double-ledger accounting has been accepted as a good idea for about four hundred years. 07:41:36 I also enjoyed explaining to him why to avoid using floating-point datatypes to represent currency. 07:41:45 *Riastradh* spews his drink. 07:41:52 ... wow :-) 07:42:02 at least he knows php. 07:42:14 (That is quite a feat, considering that I have yet to pour the drink.) 07:42:40 Ah, Kawa was the other implementation I was trying to remember the name of (but know nothing about). 07:43:02 twb: SISC is superior, though, imo; i've used it to ship production systems 07:43:49 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.168.10] has quit [] 07:44:04 actually, scratch that; i haven't evaluated kawa thoroughly, and am speaking from the bias of one data point 07:44:30 It would be nice if Kawa implemented Scheme. 07:44:43 Oh, one of *those* 07:44:53 humbly: http://openbsd.monkey.org/misc/199812/msg00022.html 07:45:42 Last I knew, I think, it failed to guarantee proper tail recursion, and its CWCC was crippled. 07:45:51 'OpenBSD, I think you may be bugged; C++ floating-point numbers behave oddly; respectfully, ayrnieu' 07:46:53 SISC has eclipse plugin... it's a win-win. 07:47:25 I'm not sure I'd use the words `Eclipse' and `win' in the same sentence (unconfined by quotation). 07:48:37 mmc [n=mima@gw1.teleca.fi] has joined #scheme 07:49:35 -!- kryptiskt 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subversus ioczgd tabe inhortte emma tizoc SchemeNate regulate dlouhy heat lisppaste certainty|work z0d dfeuer qebab Riastradh ineiros 09:06:51 -!- names: aspect gnomon Debolaz klutometis sscj elf jld clog trekdanne dmpk2k Elly djjack zbigniew duncanm yosafbridge mqt minion vincenz Leonidas rodge Khisanth 09:08:34 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:08:41 XTL [i=t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has joined #scheme 09:14:51 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:16:02 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 09:17:06 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.168.10] has quit [] 09:19:17 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 09:21:47 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 09:55:37 kryptiskt [n=no@80.251.192.2] has joined #scheme 10:02:29 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:06:48 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 10:09:53 -!- jao [n=jao@250.Red-79-155-245.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:12:30 sepult [n=buggarag@84.44.169.209] has joined #scheme 10:13:43 -!- troter [n=troter@nurikabe.timedia.co.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 10:31:43 I heard that there were talks of people working on scwm, anyone know about that? 10:46:04 ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 10:53:45 yates [n=yates@cpe-071-070-224-093.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 10:54:43 re: file and function organization: does scheme expect all top-level defines to occur before the first "work" function? 10:55:59 raikov [n=igr@122.145.153.81] has joined #scheme 10:57:05 all that it the work function uses 10:57:16 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:57:42 Arelius: thanks, but i just solved it - left off a terminating paren in the last define... 10:57:53 doh! 10:58:31 Arelius: do you have any experience using the vectors object in gimp scheme? 10:59:43 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 11:00:35 never used gimp scheme 11:02:57 ok, thanks 11:04:43 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-127.naist.jp] has quit [] 11:05:19 -!- banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit ["shadowy in red silk"] 11:05:58 that doesn't mean you can't ask the question. 11:06:40 i'm trying to find out precisely how to construct a vector object 11:06:53 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:08:21 you mean like gimp vector graphics 11:08:33 as opposed to vectors in the sense of a dynamic array? 11:11:59 no, some gimp functions require a vectors object, but they don't define the object very well (imo). it's obviously a list of some type, but i'm getting errors when using the obvious (list ((0 1) (3 4)) ...) kind of format 11:13:44 probally make-vector of some sort 11:14:24 is there a "vector-set" command in scheme libraries? 11:14:56 probally vector-set 11:14:57 it would be called vector-set! 11:14:58 err 11:15:00 vector-set! 11:15:06 yes 11:15:51 srfi-43 I think 11:23:35 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 11:31:25 r5rs vector 11:31:26 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_540 11:31:36 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/cbw7ux 11:32:10 rudybot: go fetch incubot for me, pronto! 11:32:13 sladegen: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 11:32:48 rudybot: eh? Try "sladegen: screw you". 11:32:50 sladegen: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 11:33:05 -!- raikov [n=igr@122.145.153.81] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:33:26 mail.google DOWN! how uncool. 11:33:45 Yeah, I noticed that a few minutes ago :/ 11:46:13 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:51:14 What?! 11:51:23 Quick, post to everywhere! 11:51:27 hrm 11:52:08 Ohh wait, already item #1 on reddit... 11:53:15 imap.gmail.com works though 11:57:25 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 11:58:24 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 11:59:48 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 12:03:16 klibbigt [n=hask@h84n3c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #scheme 12:03:31 http://arclanguage.org/item?id=8903 <- the thing is, i dont know if this guy is joking or not, sadly i think he is serious 12:07:04 -!- klibbigt [n=hask@h84n3c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by 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has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:55:57 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [] 14:56:04 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:00:21 hello 15:00:27 -!- yates [n=yates@cpe-071-070-224-093.nc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 15:01:52 Goodbye! 15:02:14 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-165.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #scheme 15:04:38 jkff [n=ekirpich@dhcp4-66.yandex.net] has joined #scheme 15:04:39 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 15:05:09 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:06:58 Hi folks. I once saw an article (or probably blog post) where the guy told a story how he had a class assignment to write an optimized FFT, he decided to write it in Scheme and, with certain algorithmic optimizations hardly possible in C (something related to continuations and implementation of recursion), he almost outperformed the fastest C version in his class. Does anyone remember that article / can give a reference to it? 15:13:29 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:14:42 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:16:04 http://www.ymeme.com/hackers-introduction-partial-evaluation.html mentions PE-based specialisation of the FFT 15:16:16 ... and is generally a good read 15:16:33 jkff, perhaps you're thinking of not an FFT but a fast multiplication? 15:16:37 let me find. 15:17:05 http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~jsobel/c455-c511.updated.txt 15:17:27 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 15:18:43 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:19:28 jkff: I dimly recall that, too, but couldn't put my finger on it 15:19:46 ttmrichter__ [n=ttmricht@221.234.213.35] has joined #scheme 15:21:56 that cs.indiana article really changed the way I think about scheme and compilation. 15:22:28 my dream is to have a smart enough compiler that it would really do all those things J. Sobel describes automatically. 15:22:36 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-195-3.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 15:22:56 j85wilson: join the club... 15:23:51 I think /that/ could really blow the programming world off its foundations. 15:25:44 actually, come to think of it, I think that article was what converted me from someone who wanted to know scheme for a special purpose (GP), to someone who wanted to program in scheme all the time. 15:26:27 j85wilson, the hacker's introduction to partial evaluation is a tantalising step in the direction of such a compiler :) 15:26:36 fair enough 15:26:50 I'd read it now, but I really need to get up across campus to class. 15:26:55 -!- ttmrichter_ [n=ttmricht@58.49.18.182] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:26:59 I get stuck in here. 15:27:05 partial evaluation is Super Neat 15:27:13 so, goodbye my scheming friends! 15:29:13 Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@m395e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 15:30:12 singi [n=singi@85.8.10.149.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #scheme 15:30:23 (if you do read it and want more, check out Asai, Matsuoka, Masuhara, Yonezawa on use of PE for compiling the reflective (and scheme-like) language Black 15:34:32 j85wilson: [Sorry for the long response] Thank you very much! That is exactly what I've been seeking for. 15:35:12 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 15:38:07 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:39:07 tonyg: Thank you too; the article really looks interesting. /me prints it. 15:40:32 (thus substituting the act of reading something by the act of printing it, similarly to substituting reading an article with bookmarking it, and to substituting answering to an email by marking it with a star in the mail client :) ) 15:42:31 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:42:33 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-165.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:46:08 -!- kryptiskt [n=no@80.251.192.2] has quit [] 15:46:36 heh 15:48:53 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 15:51:04 aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has joined #scheme 15:53:31 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 15:56:15 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:05:49 arcfide [n=arcfide@iub-vpn-205-235.noc.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 16:15:17 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:15:28 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 16:18:45 siflus [n=syphilis@70.85.237.250] has joined #scheme 16:19:45 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:23:56 -!- Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@m395e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 16:24:10 Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@m395e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 16:25:23 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:26:50 -!- jkff [n=ekirpich@dhcp4-66.yandex.net] has quit [] 16:27:04 rovar_ [i=c7aca911@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d46ad92cc4c331b6] has joined #scheme 16:29:06 -!- Elly [n=elly@unaffiliated/elly] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:29:10 Elly [n=elly@PHYREXIA.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 16:31:51 -!- higepon311 [n=taro@FL1-122-135-74-92.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:38:20 yates [n=yates@cpe-071-070-224-093.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:38:38 what does the construction "#(1.234)" do? 16:38:56 or maybe "#(1.234 4.567)" 16:38:59 ? 16:39:21 yates: it might be the pretty-print of a vector 16:39:42 it doesn't do anything in scheme48 :) 16:40:01 rovar_: that's because it's not standard R5RS 16:40:42 rovar_: have you been working on scheme48? what have you been doing on it? 16:40:43 it's part of SYNTAX-RULES isn't it? 16:41:02 Cheshire: i don't think so 16:41:27 yates: what scheme are you using? 16:41:40 gimp 16:42:00 yates: do you have access to a REPL? 16:42:05 duncanm: i think you're right, since it's actually the output of a print command 16:42:08 yates: i'm pretty sure it's a vector 16:42:18 yates, that is an external representation of a vector. 16:42:24 you can try (vector? #(1 2 3)) 16:42:24 duncanm, i'm trying to get some stuff working in PreScheme. It's tough because I'm not an expert scheme coder and scheme48 isn't what I'd call user friendly 16:42:25 R5RS says Vectors are written using the notation #(obj ...). 16:42:26 The first is a vctor of one element; the second, of two. 16:42:35 As an expression, (VECTOR? #(1 2 3)) is a syntax error. 16:42:45 hey Riastradh 16:42:50 duncanm: it is quite portable though, one of the few schemes I could get to compile on my crappy hybrid sun environment. 16:42:52 Riastradh: #(1 2 3) is a syntax error 16:43:04 r5rs vector 16:43:05 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_540 16:43:06 However, as an expression, (VECTOR? '#(1 2 3)) is not a syntax error. In expressions, literal vectors must be quoted. 16:43:06 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/cbw7ux 16:43:30 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@host217-42-178-216.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 16:43:51 but you don't have to quote it in SYNTAX-RULES 16:49:47 using mzscheme, i can "(define a '#(3 2 9))" 16:50:15 then "(print a)" produces "#3(3 2 9)" 16:50:20 what's the "#3" mean? 16:50:30 yates: that there are 3 elements 16:50:38 oh 16:50:56 that looks like a CLism 16:51:01 why does the command-line version of mzscheme get stuck everytime i do a (print ...)? 16:51:20 i have to Ctrl-C out to get back to a prompt 16:51:30 oh, i see - never mind 16:52:10 ok, got it 16:52:50 (define a '#(2 3 4)) 16:52:54 defines a vector 16:53:04 "berry thimple" 16:53:55 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless278.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:54:04 and that solved my gimp/scheme error 16:54:16 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 16:54:38 gimp-vectors-stroke-new-function requires a vector array as the 4th parameter. 16:54:57 bloody well would've been nice of them to state so in the docs... 16:58:24 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 16:58:48 prepare the k-line scripts 16:58:58 -!- yates [n=yates@cpe-071-070-224-093.nc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 17:02:59 hemulen [n=hemulen@99-7-171-19.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:08:12 jah [n=jah@31.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 17:08:39 kryptiskt [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has joined #scheme 17:10:34 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless278.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:13:43 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:16:22 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:19:32 kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:20:09 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:22:30 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-131-159.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 17:27:31 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 17:27:44 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@99-7-171-19.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 17:31:17 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 17:31:23 hemulen [n=hemulen@99-7-171-19.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:32:42 -!- rovar [n=rick@96.246.152.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:33:30 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176217091.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:34:24 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:34:30 -!- Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@m395e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit ["jmIrc destroyed by the OS"] 17:35:16 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 17:38:03 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:42:04 incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 17:42:29 incubot: 42 17:43:09 -!- incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 17:43:20 incubot: what's the answer to everything, universe and life? 17:43:29 sheesh.... 17:43:48 dammit; incubot broke between chicken's minor releases 17:44:11 first gmail, now, bots, it's the end of the internet. 17:44:30 sladegen: they implemented gmail in chicken? kewl 17:45:29 i said it? 17:47:03 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 17:49:10 klutometis: what happened now? 17:49:39 ah i get it :) 17:51:39 elf: not sure; first srfi-27 broke; thread-sleep! seems to have different semantics (i.e. 30 is not 30 seconds any more) 17:51:49 srfi-27 is what? 17:51:54 random bits 17:51:58 30 was never 30 seconds :) 17:51:59 had to resort to gsl-srfi-27 17:52:13 elf: ah; must have been a local irregularity, then 17:52:37 what crazy person would make it a second instead of millisecond? 17:52:50 are you compiling with disable-interrupts? 17:52:57 cause that will destroy your thread timing entirely. 17:53:13 why milliseconds and non nanoseconds? 17:53:19 elf: do i have to disable it explicitly? 17:53:46 because there is a function for that too, called nanosleep or something, but only on Linux 17:53:49 if you didnt declare disable-interrupts, then youre fine :) 17:54:14 usleep 17:54:31 ulimit imagination 17:55:53 apparently nanosleep is on posix.1b. 17:55:56 whodathunkit. 17:56:10 in, not on. 17:56:38 i dont think windows has it 17:57:35 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [No route to host] 17:57:35 nope nothing 17:58:03 jonrafkind [n=jon@eng-4-252.hotspot.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 18:00:53 windows has a really... um... conformant, yes, thats the word, posix layer. 18:01:03 exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.94.217] has joined #scheme 18:03:04 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@99-7-171-19.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:03:40 elf: i think you misspelled cormorant 18:03:52 hemulen [n=hemulen@99-7-171-19.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:04:06 no, its conformant. it has a certificate of conformity, no less. 18:04:23 nanosleep is a deceptive name 18:05:05 it's not like you can use it to sleep with nanosecond resolution 18:05:08 its just most of what we consider 'posix' is either not actually posix or is not original posix. 18:07:28 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:10:09 elf: i don't know; i like the idea of msft as a rapacious pelican who digests and extends various eels, etc. 18:15:44 civodul [n=user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has joined #scheme 18:17:46 the common cormorant, or shag 18:17:52 lays eggs inside a paper bag 18:17:52 the reason you will see no doubt 18:17:57 is to keep the lightning out 18:18:07 but what these unobservant birds 18:18:10 don't realize is that herds 18:18:15 of wandering bears come by with buns 18:18:19 and steal the bags to hold the crumbs 18:18:34 -!- siflus [n=syphilis@70.85.237.250] has left #scheme 18:22:48 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-192-150.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 18:25:43 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:27:59 !paste 18:30:22 synx: ex tempore? incroyable! 18:30:29 oh, isherwood 18:32:36 http://pastie.org/398838 18:32:55 i could imagine that there are a couple things wrong with this, but my interpreter is not being helpful about what 18:34:22 any hints 18:34:40 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:34:57 rovar_: is that really a vector-map, or is it more like a vector-for-each? 18:34:58 first it's (define (vector-map f v) ...) 18:35:13 klutometis: that's the idea 18:36:28 the rest looks "ok" 18:36:44 bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 18:36:49 i am running the f but throwing away the result, need to accumulate that in a new vector i guess 18:37:01 but I'll work on that once this part runs 18:39:11 lisppaste: url 18:39:11 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 18:40:04 rovar_ pasted "Still Broken" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76093 18:40:20 klutometis pasted "is this what you want?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76094 18:41:33 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:41:56 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 18:42:56 (let ((res (make-vector (vector-length v) ... (vector-set! res i (f (vector-ref v i)) ...) 18:43:03 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:43:40 s/v\)/v\)\)\)/;) 18:44:17 yeesh. 18:44:18 and one more, sheesh, paren mismatches.... let's use tabs. 18:44:40 (list->vector (map proc (vector->list v))) 18:44:42 :) 18:44:56 cheetar! 18:45:02 *elf* shrugs. 18:45:23 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-192-150.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:45:25 so what is the syntax to add a local variable inside the vector-map that can accumulate results of f? 18:45:37 recursion? 18:45:44 let? 18:45:59 (let (outv) vector-make (vector-length v)) 18:46:05 rovar, 18:46:09 (define 18:46:11 oops 18:46:31 (define function (let ((local-variable #f)) (lambda (vector-cell) ...)))) 18:46:49 or (define (function) ...) if you want each instance to have it's own cell 18:47:31 the latter would be more humanitarian. 18:47:53 berat [n=berat@d-stu.ibun.edu.tr] has joined #scheme 18:47:57 r5rs let 18:47:58 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_124 18:48:00 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/695ay7 18:48:10 i don't see vector-cell in r5 18:48:31 rovar_: it's a procedure argument name. 18:49:07 eli, 18:49:15 are you there can i ask a question 18:51:36 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-209-107.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 18:51:46 -!- trekdanne [n=trekdann@unaffiliated/trekdanne] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:51:46 the example given in the post '(vector-map display '#(1 2 3))' doesnt make sense... 18:52:17 elf, 18:52:24 do you know lambda calculus 18:52:28 display returns an unspecified value. 18:53:19 berat: yes, but there are many others here who know significantly more than i do. 18:54:03 rovar_ annotated #76094 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76094#1 18:54:22 rovar, you have: 18:54:23 (let (outv vector-make (vector-length v))) 18:54:25 but you should have 18:54:26 (let (outv vector-make (vector-length v)) 18:54:41 okey i ask a question http://paste.org/5553 how can i do that in plai scheme ? can you look at it pls 18:54:44 actually... 18:54:45 righto 18:54:49 (let ((outv vector-make (vector-length v))) 18:55:37 i have no idea what plai is. 18:56:12 this looks suspiciously like homework, though. 18:57:04 yes it is homework and i have o idea how to do that with plai scheme 18:57:08 PLAI is Sriram Krishnamurthi's textbook, isn't it? 18:57:23 rovar_ annotated #76094 "closer? (still broken)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76094#2 18:57:36 levi, yeah 18:57:55 i need a little clue to do that 18:58:06 Is there a way of turning off the blinking cursor of Edwin in MIT-Scheme ? 18:58:07 levi, 18:58:13 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:58:32 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:59:54 berat: Well, do you know what 'bound' and 'free' mean in this context? 18:59:55 just a little clue what does creating free variable mean.:My teacher said lambda sentence is exactly same with "with" in wae (with arithmetic calculus" must i define with 19:00:00 yes 19:00:33 (with ( x 5) (with y x)) 19:00:42 x is ffree variable on x 19:00:49 y is bound 19:00:52 berat that doesn't make any sense 19:01:01 Cheshire, why 19:01:27 you have used with twice, but different syntax each time 19:01:34 levi i know bound instance it is body. 19:01:40 is it 19:01:48 (with ( ) ) 19:01:49 or 19:01:54 (with ) 19:01:54 ? 19:02:02 yes 19:02:05 lol 19:02:24 I'm asking which -one-? 19:02:26 (wih (x 5) (y x)) is wrong ? 19:02:28 both cannot be acceptable.. 19:02:38 yes wrong, I don't know what 'wih' is 19:02:45 first one is true i thin k 19:03:06 (with (x 5) (with (y x) (*y y)) 19:03:18 wih=with 19:03:30 berat, slightly better but you should have a space before the second y? to have (* y y) instead of (*y y) ? 19:03:47 * y y is true sorry 19:03:58 ok 19:04:08 am i right ? 19:04:17 right about what? 19:04:45 (with (x 5) (with (y x) (* y y)) 19:04:50 that is true 19:05:01 berat, that is 25 19:05:09 It looks syntactically valid, yes. 19:05:16 and my teacher said valid lambda sentence is exactly same with "with". 19:05:43 berat, like (lambda (x 5) (lambda (y x) (* y y)) ..? 19:05:50 this is wrong... 19:06:10 no that is wrong 19:06:26 choas [n=lars@p5B0DCBF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:06:28 berat, can you translate a with into a lambda though? 19:06:36 I mean can -you- 19:06:50 i am not sure but that must be (lambda x (lambda y( y x) (* 5 5)) 19:07:00 rovar_: you should probably call it vector-map! if you're going to mutate the thing 19:07:08 i am not sure thats true Cheshire 19:07:09 berat, that's not valid 19:07:23 berat, I think your book is crap and misleading 19:07:37 berat, you should learn how to use LAMBDA in Scheme -- it will be tremendously useful 19:07:39 Cheshire, what is the true version 19:07:43 klutometis, I'm not, that's what the out vector is for. I make a new vector the same size as the one passed in, then i populate the values. 19:08:25 at least that is the intention :) 19:08:50 the important thing is i guess to provide lambda in plai scheme 19:08:58 free instance bound instance 19:14:41 so if I use let to declare a local instance, then have my expression evaluate to that, will it return a copy from the function? 19:15:46 does anyone know how to apply lambda calculus in plai scheme 19:16:16 berat, I think PLAI sucks 19:16:26 berat, why don't you read something else 19:16:47 *elf* reads the lorax. 19:17:14 actually I should really read the book before saying that 19:17:33 we are the lorax, we speak for the scheme, we speak for the scheme for the scheme's standard is dumb... 19:17:45 *elf* ponders. 19:17:57 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@eng-4-252.hotspot.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:17:57 what should I read? currently going through SICP, but I tend to get ahead of myself :) 19:18:02 Cheshire, i have no option except reading this book 19:18:03 sicp == good. 19:18:12 i read sicp 19:18:13 elf............ 19:18:15 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:18:19 for chapter 19:18:21 Cheshire, 19:18:25 can i ask a question 19:18:26 why do you have to abuse the == operator 19:18:26 berat, people have taken ak-47s to school for less 19:18:31 berat yes 19:18:32 do you have a book 19:18:34 berat, you just did 19:18:35 rovar_, on't say that 19:18:52 Cheshire, did you write a book 19:18:53 :/ 19:18:55 elf: we need some more sicp advocacy on here; the htdp hordes are zerg rushing 19:18:55 cheshire: i wasnt abusing the operator. 19:18:56 i wonder that 19:18:57 berat, no 19:19:04 rovar_, what does ak-47s 19:19:08 mean 19:19:08 i was making a statement that would be true. 19:19:17 berat, nm 19:19:18 Cheshire, i think you should write a good book 19:19:20 it was an state-equivalency check, not an assignment. 19:19:50 and i think otherone should say this book sucks 19:19:51 :D 19:20:22 rovar_ annotated #76094 "this compiles, but tryscheme says no expressions in body" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76094#3 19:20:31 i need a some information 19:20:42 berat, you are reading this ? http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Books/ProgLangs/2007-04-26/plai-2007-04-26.pdf 19:20:44 http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Papers/Published/sk-teach-p 19:20:44 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/4n7hdw 19:20:56 read that, cheshire. its the philosophy of the book. 19:21:01 berat, have you got as far as 3.3 yet? 19:21:02 elf 404 19:21:14 oops, it cut off. 19:21:30 sk-teach-pl-post-linnaean/ 19:21:36 rovar_, fix your code's indentation. 19:21:50 rovar_, correct indentation will show where the problem is. 19:22:06 klutometis annotated #76094 "practice your scheme syntax" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76094#4 19:22:25 languages as aggregations of features... 19:22:29 elf, 19:22:30 *elf* sighs. 19:22:41 berat helloo.? 19:22:57 you address doesnt appears 19:23:05 Cheshire, sorry 19:23:12 i read that book plai book 19:23:22 berat, all of it? 19:23:51 elf, 19:24:03 full addres is http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Papers/Published/sk-teach-p%20sk-teach-pl-post-linnaean/ ? 19:24:03 berat helloo........? 19:24:05 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/c6bldt 19:24:07 rovar_: figure out why that works; i'm not sure you understand scope yet 19:24:21 (runall (- i 1))) should be under (begin, correct? 19:24:32 yeah 19:24:32 no all of it 19:24:38 i am on chapter 3 Cheshire 19:25:04 http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Papers/Published/sk-teach-pl-post-linnaean/ 19:25:08 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/55rjug 19:25:37 berat, ok have you started 3 or finished 3? 19:26:11 neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 19:26:15 i finished most of it 19:26:20 ok 19:26:24 but substitution is hard issue 19:26:29 i check one again 19:29:07 klutometis: I got it now, I was too concerned about the inner function, it was the outer that wasn't returning the value. In addition, the execution of runall should have been inside the let scope. 19:29:19 rovar_: there you go 19:29:21 Cheshire, 19:29:25 can i ask a question 19:29:47 berat, yes 19:30:00 do you know plai scheme ? 19:30:13 berat, I just read the first few chapters it looks good 19:31:32 i wonder how can i write valid-lambda-sentence on plai scheme. To write lambda sentence (valid) is like writing "with" sentence on plai scheme. 19:32:07 berat, you should study LAMBDA 19:32:23 berat, after you have done that for a bit you will be much more skilled 19:32:35 berat, you can watch the SICP videos online 19:32:50 borism [n=boris@195-50-201-147-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 19:33:27 Cheshire, can i ask one more question 19:34:01 (with (x 5) (with (y x) (* y y)) how can i write this as lambda sentence 19:34:06 berat, no 19:34:23 i cant write this as lambda sentence 19:34:24 ? 19:34:25 berat, you do what I said and you will know the answer 19:34:40 berat, you cannot -- it is possible though, you will see how once you have studied lambda 19:34:59 lambda or lambda calculus 19:35:04 both 19:35:51 barney [n=bernhard@p549A0E88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:36:55 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 19:39:43 hmm 19:40:05 are there something you suggest for lambda calculus 19:43:35 kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has joined #scheme 19:43:43 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:43:43 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@iub-vpn-205-235.noc.indiana.edu] has left #scheme 19:44:15 Last message date: Mon Feb 23 23:02:39 EDT 2009 19:44:15 Archived on: Tue Feb 24 14:30:37 EDT 2009 19:44:41 foof complained about too much traffic on the plt-scheme list, and he must've broken it 19:47:00 ^self [n=fn@116.58.16.164] has joined #scheme 19:50:29 a smalltalk nick 19:50:58 <^self> aye 19:51:18 <^self> my day job is writing code in python, though 19:52:24 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-150-63.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:54:31 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:56:51 schlac language module do you know that 19:57:48 -!- kryptiskt [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:59:20 ^self, don't feel bad, I have to write in fortran sometimes. 19:59:33 saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-SEVEN-FORTY-THREE.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:59:51 mmm...strangulation by snake, or strangulation by language.... 20:00:22 -!- jah [n=jah@31.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:03:25 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A0E88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:11:57 Rhetosaur [n=heartles@203.97.179.3] has joined #scheme 20:13:27 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:13:29 jao [n=jao@250.Red-79-155-245.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:15:24 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-SEVEN-FORTY-THREE.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:18:19 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-131-159.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:20:15 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 20:20:33 zandax [n=roehrich@85.183.24.201] has joined #scheme 20:20:35 hi 20:21:44 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:22:05 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:24:49 -!- tessier_ [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has left #scheme 20:25:15 I 20:26:11 <^self> yes, you. 20:26:20 sorry 20:26:53 I'm new to Scheme and started coding a small Pac-Man game which I would like to be completly functional written (without mutations). However I don't really know if it's possible do to that in an elegant way. 20:27:23 I think it should be possible for the game engine 20:27:26 Maybe someone likes to look at my code (a mess, I am sorry): http://rafb.net/p/CaI7CQ78.html 20:27:36 The graphics stuff would be harder (or impossible) to do functionally 20:27:57 Purely functional framebuffer? 20:28:00 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has left #scheme 20:28:06 I am using PLT Scheme with the regular GDI/WinAPI functions. 20:28:19 Anyone have any recommendations on a good IRC bot written in Scheme? 20:28:33 I'm stuck with moving my pacman on the map. 20:28:57 jlongster: rudybot 20:29:08 rudybot: source 20:29:25 rudybot: give jlongster "a lolipop" 20:29:26 jlongster: http://github.com/offby1/rudybot/tree/b2a7675b5cd211b30f566ba6aaace79485d02143 20:29:27 Mr-Cat: your sandbox is ready 20:29:27 jlongster: Mr-Cat has given you a value, say "rudybot: eval (GRAB)" to get it (case sensitive) 20:29:33 <^self> interesting project, zandax. 20:29:49 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 20:29:50 jlongster: your sandbox is ready 20:29:50 jlongster: ; Value: "a lolipop" 20:29:58 <^self> what does moving your pacman entail? 20:30:07 rudybot: give Mr-Cat a thanks! 20:30:07 jlongster: error: reference to undefined identifier: a 20:30:12 I slowly noticed that it's to complex for a beginner :/ 20:30:23 bah. It's already smarter than me. 20:30:28 Mr-Cat: thanks 20:32:30 It would be easy if I would have a simple main loop. Then I would use recursion as usual. But the event based system makes it difficult for me to find a solution. 20:32:46 <^self> perhaps this will help, zandax: http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/index.html#pure-oo 20:32:53 <^self> as something to read and ponder 20:33:21 <^self> rudybot, where's sarah? 20:33:22 ^self: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 20:33:25 will have a look at it, thanks :) 20:33:27 <^self> bah. 20:36:28 Mr-Cat: any idea on how to run rudybot? I'm not familiar with running mzscheme 20:37:12 jlongster: No. I didn't try to run it myself. 20:37:30 ^self: what do you mean by "entail"? :/ 20:37:42 Ok. It's almost as if I don't have the language 'scheme' installed. I'll look at it later. 20:37:45 -!- mmc [n=mima@gw1.teleca.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 20:40:05 <^self> oh, i meant, what do you have to do to move pacman? what changes do you have to make to the grid, etc. 20:41:49 jlongster: no language `scheme' installed? What do you mean? Btw, look through the source - some files are actually bash scripts with embedded scheme code, afaik. 20:41:50 I want to change his coordinates by reading key presses. 20:42:30 My on-char function and the draw_player function are the main problem. 20:42:36 -!- Guest50748 is now known as mike_______ 20:43:47 At the moment hes always drawn on 0,0 except when I press one of the cursor keys he's drawn up, down, left or right from 0,0. 20:44:01 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 20:45:03 Mr-Cat: right, calling `./main.ss' errors "mzscheme: bad switch --main", and calling `mzscheme -f main.ss' brings up mzscheme saying 'collection not found: "scheme"' (probably in regards to #lang scheme) 20:45:07 I probably need to update mzscheme. 20:46:21 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 20:47:19 -!- civodul [n=user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:48:04 jlongster: maybe. What mzscheme version do you use? 20:48:52 rudybot: eval (version) 20:48:53 Mr-Cat: ; Value: "4.1.4" 20:49:45 mzscheme -v: "Welcome to MzScheme v372 [3m]" 20:49:54 So that's 3.7.2? That's the problem 20:51:19 jlongster: Seems to be so. Seems, you haven't updated your system for a long time... 20:51:44 melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 20:51:46 I don't use mzscheme, but I think I installed it a long time ago :) 20:52:29 civodul [n=user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has joined #scheme 20:53:08 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit [Client Quit] 20:56:17 new quack: http://www.neilvandyke.org/quack/ 20:56:57 among other changes, this one recognizes scheme scripts based on "#!" 20:57:50 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:57:52 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:58:40 ^self: so the problem is getting different coordinates without changing them 21:02:15 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:03:41 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-127.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #scheme 21:12:05 wingo-tp [n=wingo@96.Red-79-151-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:12:13 community.schemewiki.org was doing so well initially, but needs fixing up 21:13:55 i give up 21:15:22 Lemonator [n=kniu@CMU-323496.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 21:15:30 nan8 [n=user@dslb-088-066-246-205.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 21:16:52 neilv, what kind of fixing up? 21:17:16 it's a dumping ground of mixed-accuracy 21:22:30 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-127.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:23:15 melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 21:23:41 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:23:51 tjafk [n=timj@e176217091.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 21:24:43 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:25:42 hadronzoo_ [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-242-10.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 21:26:09 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-150-63.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:26:45 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 21:27:21 -!- kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:27:25 -!- ^self [n=fn@116.58.16.164] has quit ["sleep"] 21:28:29 btw, why do people post anonymously to the plt-scheme list, when it doesn't look like they're asking about homework? 21:28:57 neilv: some people like privacy? 21:29:23 -!- rovar_ [i=c7aca911@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d46ad92cc4c331b6] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:30:15 scheme: the secret shame 21:30:29 :D 21:30:32 or secret competitive advantage 21:30:34 or both 21:30:54 or it's just a privacy nut or a security type that's habitually paranoid 21:30:57 perhaps they're hacking scheme at work, when they're supposed to be doing something else 21:31:08 in hopes of landing one of the many lucrative scheme hacking jobs 21:32:29 Maybe they fear scheme-spam. 21:33:45 they could always use their full name, if they're going to use a throwaway email address 21:35:04 langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 21:36:10 btw.: http://rafb.net/p/CaI7CQ78.html<- does anybody maybe now has an idea for my key input processing problem? :( 21:36:39 What is the problem? The keys, the input, or the processing? 21:37:20 (Are you using a pre-v400 version of PLT Scheme?) 21:37:30 I want to change the player's coordinates via key input without state mutations. 21:37:49 At some point you need state. 21:37:51 yeah, its 372 or so 21:38:23 Embed that state into your class. 21:39:25 Can you explain it a bit more detailied? (sorry, I am completly new to Scheme) 21:39:30 I think I had a non-hideous solution to this, once upon a time. (But it was post-v400.) Give me a sec to dig up some old code. I generally forget every use of `class*' immediately after doing so. 21:39:55 np, I am happy for every advice :) 21:39:58 btw, they just say 4.x now, not v4xx 21:40:03 If you are completely new to Scheme, you should focus on Scheme and not the PLT class silliness. In my opinion. 21:40:20 But again, gimme a sec for an example -- 21:41:27 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-203-229.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:41:50 It would be easy to avoid state mutations if I would have a proper main loop. But I don't know what to do in this case, because the actions are event-based. 21:41:54 yates [n=yates@cpe-071-070-224-093.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:42:11 (define a 1) (define b 2) (define c #(a b)) 21:42:28 that ^^ does not product #2(1 2) - why not? 21:42:36 s/product/produce 21:43:05 yates: you want (define c (vector a b)) 21:43:09 First of all, yates, #(...), with anything substituted for ..., is a syntax error as an expression. 21:43:19 You must quote vectors in expressions. 21:43:23 Literal vectors, that is. 21:43:48 Riastradh: i'm not getting an error in mzscheme 21:43:49 In any quotation, subforms are taken literally, and not evaluated as expressions. 21:44:07 So just as '(A . B) yields a pair whose car is the symbol A and whose cdr is the symbol B, '#(A B) yields a vector of the symbols A and B. 21:44:21 What you get if you do not quote a literal vector is up to your implementation, and may vary from implementation to implementation. 21:44:46 For example, it is perfectly legitimate, and not contradictory to the standard, for C to be a (mutable) vector containing the numbers 1 and 2 after your code. 21:44:52 zandax: if you are using class* and the events, you have to maintain some state. I would recommend doing so withini your `my-canvas'. 21:44:55 Ristradh: what's a "literal vector"? 21:45:13 ouch. 21:45:25 yates, a vector written literally using its external representation, namely #(...), rather than a vector constructed by procedures such as VECTOR or MAKE-VECTOR. 21:45:35 I hoped I could program fully functional. 21:46:09 Riastradh: can you suggest a syntax that provides what i'm after? 21:46:19 Use a procedure such as VECTOR to construct the vector you want. 21:46:22 r5rs vector 21:46:23 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_540 21:46:24 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/cbw7ux 21:47:09 zandax: UI is intrinsically chock full of state and side effects. There is really no way around that. You can sugar it monadically etc., but in the end you're making a destructive change to a teletype or a cathode ray tube somewhere. 21:47:33 Riastradh: got it - thanks 21:47:50 Daemmerung: also, thanks - sorry but i do better if i focus on one person 21:47:55 The PLT GUI toolkit uses a lot of `class' and such to encapsulate some of this. 21:47:58 yates: np 21:48:03 i once made a destructive change to a crt with a pickaxe 21:48:08 yates: (me too) 21:48:13 :) 21:48:18 damn :/ 21:49:06 yates: focus on one person? this isn't real time, dude; we're bounded by typing 21:49:33 also, the permanence of i/o over sound forces a kind of asynchrony 21:49:44 it's kind of semi real time. Otherwise we wouldn't need minion in his winged sandals to bridge the gap. 21:50:22 Daemmerung: expanding of "semi" is the interesting part 21:50:30 it's not quite a bar, where sound disappears 21:50:34 klutometis: i guess you're just smarter than i, although that's not saying too much... 21:51:00 *Daemmerung* pokes idly at keyboard with pointed stick 21:51:06 *Daemmerung* grunts 21:51:10 -!- Qaexl [n=Akashakr@c-24-30-97-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 21:51:27 Laundry is the fifth dimension!! ... um ... um ... th' washing machine 21:51:27 is a black hole and the pink socks are bus drivers who just fell in!! 21:51:28 yates: nonsense; if anything, an autistic mono-focus implies sensitivity 21:51:48 sladegen: how is the weather in Atlanta? 21:51:49 21:52:02 Deformative: chopsticky 21:52:16 sladegen: my favorite city! what part? 21:52:33 yates: (sladegen is a bot.) 21:52:37 yates: south of baltic sea 21:52:42 sladegen: can you discourse on infidelity while your in the mood? 21:52:47 you're 21:52:53 sladegen: chant 21:52:54 really? 21:53:05 more fidellity! 21:53:20 sladegen: generate(infinity) 21:53:40 klutometis: did you mean intercourse? 21:53:41 Now you've done it. 21:53:43 us introverts must stick together! 21:54:08 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-209-107.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [] 21:54:30 yates: error: out of space. 21:54:37 funny how infidel is not at all like infidelity 21:54:53 -!- r0bby_ is now known as r0bby 21:55:18 sladegen: i used to live on Briarcliff in another millenium 21:56:23 yates: it's another millenium? already? 21:56:32 yates: the "Atlanta" line was a sarahbot reference. I don't know where sladegen is currently hosted. On an old VAX in Slovenia, I think. 21:57:26 ahh. legs> 21:57:52 i'm going to kill wilbur real soon 21:57:59 damned little rodent 21:58:38 i think spelling errors show me unqualified to attempt not-passing turing test. 21:58:40 I spent some formative years in the neighborhood of Emory, which I think was sort of near Briarcliff. It was a hell of a long time ago. 21:59:23 Daemmerung: Yes! Cool. I saw Olivia Newton-John at the Fox, so that puts the date in perspective... 21:59:51 Daemmerung: Can you say "Everybody's"? 22:00:07 We're about of an age, then. (I left Atlanta when I was 7 or so.) 22:00:52 the kid who sideswiped our car on his bike in the church parking lot later dated olivia newton-john. if that dates me 22:01:03 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-187-170.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:01:04 i did pass through atlanta once, on a grayhound. 22:01:43 i should write her and see if she'll reimburse the cost of the side mirror 22:01:58 neilv: she always said, "Come on Over" 22:02:34 pretty sure she was never talking to me. if she was, that would be tragic 22:02:47 why? 22:02:54 are you gay? 22:03:06 all these years we could've had together 22:03:28 more specifically, all my adolescent and teenage years 22:03:41 i hear ya' - she was something. 22:03:53 seemed like it, at the time 22:04:17 I also saw Emerson, Lake and Palmer, i think at the Fox - circa 1977 or so 22:04:38 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-131-159.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:05:01 why do I think the entire scheme channel is interested in my teenage concert schedule? good question! 22:05:07 Daemmerung: Do you maybe have an idea for an elegant solution for my problem? 22:05:22 man us whippersnappers had to be content with elp greatest hits albums 22:05:44 poor soul 22:05:57 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:06:15 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 22:06:21 -!- berat is now known as hellues 22:08:06 -!- hellues [n=berat@d-stu.ibun.edu.tr] has left #scheme 22:08:24 berat [n=berat@d-stu.ibun.edu.tr] has joined #scheme 22:08:43 -!- mike_______ [n=m@88.66.226.140] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:09:56 zandax: if by elegant you mean "contains no use of `set!', no. I would add a couple of data members to your derived class, and therein track your current x and y. You have to track that somewhere, since you lose control between events (as you've observed). 22:10:37 Oh, you probably don't want to call draw_foo in your on-key. Call it in on-paint. Restrict yourself in on-key to forcing a repaint. 22:11:32 (And I urge you to upgrade to a more recent PLT Scheme. Now bigger! More chocolaty!) 22:12:04 ok! 22:12:22 than I will do it imperative as usual :/ 22:12:54 imperative is always a bummer 22:13:57 to be honest I never reached a level where I actually had an advantage doing things in functional style 22:14:07 zandax: future suggestion -- use lisppaste so we can annotate your pastes 22:14:38 functional == scheme-like? 22:15:02 yates: I also messed around a little bit with Haskell before. 22:15:19 thanks Daemmerung, I didn't find a lisp paste service 22:15:42 i don't understand the terms functional vs. imperative. is one scheme-liek and the other C-like (e.g.)? 22:15:57 -!- kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has left #scheme 22:16:11 lisppaste: url 22:16:11 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 22:16:17 yates: I mean with or without side-effects. 22:16:22 does any of you know lambda calculus and schlac module for scheme 22:16:42 zandax: you like headaches and nausea? 22:16:53 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:16:53 sorry. 22:16:58 !? :/ 22:17:03 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:17:09 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 22:17:56 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:18:26 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 22:18:54 kryptiskt [n=no@80.251.192.2] has joined #scheme 22:20:39 Qaexl [n=Akashakr@c-24-30-97-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:22:41 i know this may be a silly or naive question, but has there been any research into making a computer sentient? 22:22:45 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DCBF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:24:15 hard to imagine 22:24:34 i feel like a kook even asking... 22:25:24 -!- berat [n=berat@d-stu.ibun.edu.tr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:25:33 -!- nan8 [n=user@dslb-088-066-246-205.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #scheme 22:26:41 "print" is not a native function? 22:26:49 I would say: sentiences are what you feel when you balance different opinions,arguments etc. When doing pathfinding etc. you actually teach a computer to balance different paths. 22:27:01 There are standard procedures DISPLAY and WRITE, yates, with different functions. 22:27:05 r5rs display 22:27:05 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_624 22:27:07 r5rs write 22:27:07 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/7rd27g 22:27:07 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_622 22:27:10 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5dxt7x 22:28:02 i've been irritable lately, and i think it's rudybot's fault 22:28:34 -!- Lemonator [n=kniu@CMU-323496.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:29:02 Riastradh: is there something similar to C's printf()? 22:29:23 yates: there is a plt-specific one, called "printf" 22:29:50 There are many poor, clumsy formatting abstractions just like C's printf(3) all over the place. 22:29:53 plt is an implementation ? like tinu-fu, mzscheme, etc? 22:30:05 PLT has-a MzScheme 22:30:07 Some of them are called PRINTF; others are called FORMAT. 22:30:24 yates: when people say "mzscheme", think "plt scheme" 22:30:26 *Daemmerung* echoes Riastradh's disdain for printf 22:30:35 Riastradh: do you have a generalized formatting construct you like? 22:30:55 Not that I have released. foof does, though, at or something. 22:30:59 neilv: ok 22:31:15 plt is the whole ball of wax, the debugger, gui, etc? 22:31:41 yates: it's a family of interpreters/compilers, tools, and languages 22:31:49 it's easiest to just say "plt" 22:31:54 The printf function is my first personal reason why C sucks 22:32:15 specbot: clhs format 22:32:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm 22:32:17 *arcfide* snickers. 22:32:44 zandax: the printf function is still, in 2009, my debugging method of choice with C or C++. 22:32:46 cl "format" is insane 22:33:00 neilv: Heheheh. 22:33:22 occasionally i stoop to ddd/gdb... 22:33:26 What it clearly wants to do is not exactly clear. 22:33:47 They fixed the printf problems with C++. cout is a more logical and easier to use output possibility. 22:34:07 And I am also using output functions to debug, yates. I assume everybody does that ;) 22:34:33 great minds think alike 22:35:12 a beep function is indispensable for debugging 22:35:38 preferably one where you can alter the frequency 22:35:42 Real Schemers don't debug, they refactor. 22:35:45 a flashing LED can also be good 22:36:12 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 22:36:17 the XF pin on the TI DSPs was one of the greatest inventions in computer science 22:36:21 I like little flip switches on the side of my computer for flags in my code.... 22:36:34 animal 22:37:07 To be honest when not using C/C++ I always have a good debugger with me and very rarly feel the need for doing my own debug outputs :) 22:38:20 you mean there's other languages besides C/C++? 22:38:28 there're 22:39:10 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-195-3.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:39:31 and I still don't know why so many people prefer C/C++ over all the other comfortable language with gargabe collection, debugger and clean syntax 22:39:37 +s 22:40:04 zandax: you're joking, right? have you gone catatonic? 22:40:30 I am serious 22:40:31 why is it C/C++ 22:40:35 would a catatonic person be able to answer? 22:40:35 and not C and C++ 22:40:36 c and scheme are the yin and yang. 22:40:38 or C or C++ 22:40:48 what does '/' mean 22:40:53 c++, otoh, is an aberration before the lord. 22:40:59 abomination 22:41:01 elf: indeed. 22:41:09 no, its not quite an abomination. 22:41:10 C++ is to C as CL to Scheme 22:41:11 *wingo-tp* runs around the temple, proclaiming UNCLEAN 22:41:12 just an aberration. 22:41:14 lord Steele? 22:41:17 (levenshtein/predicate '#(#\A #\B #\C #\D) "aBXcD" char-ci=?) ==> 1 22:41:26 new version: http://www.neilvandyke.org/levenshtein-scheme/ 22:42:08 kryptiskt, I dont' really see that 22:42:13 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 22:42:25 abominations would include java and perl. c++ is merely deranged, not evil. 22:42:51 elf, every language that uses = for assignment is harmful 22:43:03 whys that, then? 22:43:09 Cheshire: kitchen sink vs anorexic lang 22:43:09 C++ one stop on the road to syntatic enlightenment 22:43:28 C and C++ are a pain. They are fast and low-level, which was great for that time and still is for slow machines. But today you need to develop very fast and and you need to create safe programs. The only advantages it has imho are that it is free and powerful. 22:43:47 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit ["Reboot!"] 22:43:56 (define-macro (= var val) `(set! ,var ,val)) 22:44:16 zandax: so whats your take on scheme->c compilers? 22:44:18 elf yuck you even used an unhygienic macrco 22:44:24 *elf* cackles. 22:44:46 zandax: my word, i wonder what you think about assembly: http://www.digitalsignallabs.com/firmac.asm 22:44:52 arc uses = :-) 22:44:59 arc is silly. 22:45:39 I am not a true Scheme user, elf, I just try a little. :) And using C has a language in between high level languages and assembler is very reasonable :) 22:45:48 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:46:07 I love coding in assembly yates. But only for certain things. 22:46:17 zandax: you err in judgement; there will always be a place for _fast_ 22:46:28 I want to write a compiler to assembly some time.. 22:46:33 zandax: of course the proper tool for the job, yes 22:46:34 it seems very difficult though 22:46:34 a 22:47:24 yes, yates. And the speed advantage of C and C++ over other languages is nearly non-existent when creating PC software. 22:47:26 I had tried to compile scheme into java bytecode before but it was irritatating using that since the java bytecode has to be well typed 22:47:37 you can always get that extra dB of performance gain, that extra 2 bits of resolution, that extra 200 Hz of bandwidth, etc., etc. 22:47:59 so it basically ended up an interpreter.. that interpreted some funny syntax instead of scheme code... 22:48:48 yeah yates. but today it's the algorithm which counts. it used to be the low level optimization maybe 20 years ago 22:48:59 zandax: i haven't seen benchmarks or had experience in comparing across C/C++ versus other higher languages. 22:49:06 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 22:49:19 zandax: it depends on what you're doing. 22:49:37 zandax: for sure, computers are power enough now to do many wonderful things without trying too hard 22:49:43 s/power/powerful/ 22:50:03 zandax: a constant factor of 10 can be damned irritating when buying servers if you're google... 22:50:09 the key word is "many" - not "all" 22:50:48 kryptiskt: ? 22:51:28 yates do you have specific examples? 22:51:38 zandax: i made a large cellphone mfr 17M by writing _fast_ code (and implementing a good algorithm) about 4 years ago... 22:51:58 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-209-107.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 22:52:09 but that was on the TI TMS320C54x DSP 22:52:12 not the PC 22:52:38 mfr? :/ 22:52:45 Sony Ericsson 22:52:49 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit ["homeward"] 22:53:00 manufacturer 22:53:22 sorry, I don't understand 22:53:59 about 10 years ago I wrote a least-squares fit algorithm to estimate some parameters that helped us pass type approval . yes, in assembly 22:54:16 (that was Ericsson) 22:54:37 I was talking about PC software the whole time 22:54:51 I also use C and assembly for smaller devices 22:55:08 the performance hit of ~5x to 10x that would've come from writing in C would have been unacceptable 22:55:25 i thought we were talking about languages in general 22:56:00 and one of my recent assembly routines was for the PC. the need arises there too - sometimes 22:56:09 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 22:56:36 yeah but in general you have very fast machines today 22:56:41 but i digress... 22:56:47 what assembly routine for the PC? :/ 22:56:53 yates: i'm working quite a bit for sony ericsson now. 22:57:01 the one i quoted above 22:57:09 kryptiskt: lund? 22:57:15 yep 22:57:29 lucky you survived the layoffs. 22:57:51 there wasn't too much in lund 22:58:17 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-209-107.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [] 22:58:21 did you know Rob Zak at the Sony Ericsson/RTP (NC, US)? my former boss 22:58:37 Hah, elf, I like you're comment that C++ is just deranged, not evil. I think it's remarkably appropriate. 22:58:38 no 23:00:03 would love to continue the discussion :) but need to go to sleep now 23:00:17 Nightg 23:00:24 zandax: may all your parenthses match 23:00:40 thanks :D 23:00:44 -!- zandax [n=roehrich@85.183.24.201] has quit [] 23:01:08 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-227-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 23:01:25 but colons are inherently unbalanced. 23:01:44 is that a C++ slam? 23:02:09 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5452.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:02:53 it's an opportunistic exploitation of the previous deranged metaphor. 23:03:20 i could've sworn i saw a "object->string" syntax to convert an object to string representation, but now it doesn't work! 23:03:27 saw in the r5rs 23:04:19 nope. nothing like that there. 23:06:57 not object->string but many something->whatever. 23:07:16 sladegen: (define a 1) (a->string)? 23:07:25 don't workie 23:07:31 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-201-147-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:08:33 rofl 23:09:01 i'm trying to debug my gimp/scheme using gimp-message, which only takes a string 23:09:01 (format "~a" obj) how about that 23:09:06 rudybot: eval (number->string 1) 23:09:07 sladegen: your sandbox is ready 23:09:07 sladegen: ; Value: "1" 23:09:23 now you just need to define object->number and you're all set ;) 23:09:37 sladegen: watch out for cat turds 23:10:18 jonrafkind: yep, that works 23:10:24 great success 23:10:27 (define ->string (lambda (a) (with-output-to-string (lambda () (display a))))). 23:11:17 is that like an operator definition? 23:11:24 (with-output-to-string is for string ports, yes? i rather doubt tinyscheme has string ports.) 23:13:14 hkBst: i've never thought of them as solid objects... 23:13:18 (define (tostring e) (cond ((string? e) e) ((symbol? e) (symbol->string e)) ... etc) 23:13:52 minion: memo for mejja: FLO:EXP, FLO:ASIN, and FLO:ACOS should be a trifle faster now. FLO:SIN, FLO:COS, and FLO:TAN require a better approximation than the i387 is easily capable of, and so are better implemented in the microcode, which I may do one of these days. 23:13:52 Remembered. I'll tell mejja when he/she/it next speaks. 23:13:58 and then you have a (define (tomsg . l) (apply string-append (map tostring l))) 23:14:07 sladegen: they aren't, they're mushy 23:14:09 although you probably want spaces to be inserted or whatnot. 23:15:39 then they don't exist. only solid stuff is real matter. 23:17:14 "format" is not part of the basic r5rs - it's not available in tiny-fu 23:17:22 bitweiler [n=bitweile@adsl-69-155-31-241.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:17:39 -!- hadronzoo_ [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-242-10.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 23:17:40 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-148-52.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 23:18:36 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 23:18:36 -!- bitweiler [n=bitweile@adsl-69-155-31-241.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:19:03 bitweiler [n=bitweile@adsl-69-155-31-241.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:19:12 eveing #scheme 23:19:18 mornin bitweiler :) 23:19:40 hehe 23:19:51 how's it's going elf 23:20:01 tiredly. yourself? 23:20:26 slowly grasping scheme, tiresome myself 23:21:49 the gf says hai2u too. 23:21:49 -!- bitweiler [n=bitweile@adsl-69-155-31-241.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:22:23 bitweiler [n=bitweile@adsl-69-155-31-241.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:26:09 is the R5RS document all the reference that I'll need with scheme? 23:26:12 aaco_ [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has joined #scheme 23:26:17 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:26:22 bitweiler: no. 23:26:41 elf: what else? 23:26:49 well, which implementation are you using? 23:27:03 MIT/GNU Scheme 23:27:12 the mit reference documentation would be useful, then. 23:27:44 and SICP or the *ed schemer series are good to learn from... 23:28:17 *ed schemer series? 23:28:44 reasoned/seasoned 23:29:01 elf have you seen Ziggeraut 23:29:10 belittled 23:29:11 the little schemer, the seasoned schemer, the reasoned schemer, the giant schemer that lurks in the night and conspires to eat your soul, the mad schemer project, and everything you ever wanted to learn about scheme but were too afraid of the parentheses. 23:29:15 I have the little schemer 23:29:28 cheshire: what is ziggeraut? 23:29:53 lol, humor titles 23:29:53 elf, it's a bit like kanren ... http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~dfisher/ziggurat/icfp06-ziggurat.pdf 23:31:12 ive not seen it (the paper looks interesting thus far though, but i dont see its immediate link to kanren) 23:31:36 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:33:22 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:33:26 -!- aaco_ is now known as aaco 23:35:15 kniu [n=kniu@128.237.224.216] has joined #scheme 23:37:19 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-209-107.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 23:38:23 -!- yates [n=yates@cpe-071-070-224-093.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Started wasting time elsewhere"] 23:38:42 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:39:49 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-209-107.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:41:49 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-91.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:42:36 wingo--tp [n=wingo@59.Red-79-151-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:43:10 -!- civodul [n=user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has quit ["Good night/day!"] 23:44:48 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:45:14 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@96.Red-79-151-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:47:52 amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #scheme 23:48:16 -!- neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:48:37 hey all 23:49:01 i mentioned building plt on my low-memory box a few days ago... 23:49:12 anyway, i managed to keep 'gmake install' running for a long time 23:50:30 congrats 23:50:33 I eventually get the message "The PLT scheme virtual machine has run out of memory, aborting" 23:50:45 and indeed it does abort() 23:50:49 hrm 23:50:59 I had loads of swap at the time, AFAIK 23:51:04 it looks like it hit a hard limit 23:51:54 maybe there's a way I can increase this limit? 23:52:20 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:53:05 that's my question I guess ;) 23:53:43 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@99-7-171-19.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 23:55:08 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:56:08 hemulen [n=hemulen@99-7-171-19.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:56:41 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@99-7-171-19.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:57:05 amoe: I think there is, no idea how to do it in the compiler 23:57:10 or why the limit would be too low. 23:57:29 what os? 23:58:12 netbsd 23:58:36 hemulen [n=hemulen@99-7-171-19.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:58:57 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@99-7-171-19.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59:35 do you have privs to muck about with rlimit?