00:03:45 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@213.Red-88-0-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:05:24 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 00:05:29 HG` [n=wells@222-155-53-2.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 00:05:52 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:07:03 -!- stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:07:58 Fare: Oh, TUNES, eh? I see Brian Rice every coupla months 00:10:39 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:12:00 -!- chaoslynx [n=cpehle@p57A77BF7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:12:20 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 00:16:24 Brian is my better self 00:16:39 hug him for me 00:16:52 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:17:33 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:17:34 -!- HG` [n=wells@222-155-53-2.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:18:24 he hasn't shaved in a while. 00:18:26 no, thanks. 00:22:54 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.101.17.44] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:25:59 silas428 [n=ryan@c-67-182-172-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:30:34 -!- fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:31:07 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 00:31:35 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:31:43 fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 00:35:02 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053A37.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:37:10 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 00:37:40 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:44:19 meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-99-165-18-210.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:51:02 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:52:00 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #scheme 00:59:08 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:59:35 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 01:01:51 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:04:41 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 01:14:30 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:14:33 -!- cmihai [n=user@unaffiliated/cmihai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:16:09 cmihai [n=user@unaffiliated/cmihai] has joined #scheme 01:21:35 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFC467.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:23:34 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:27:13 -!- cmihai [n=user@unaffiliated/cmihai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:36:21 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:38:11 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFC621.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:39:06 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 01:40:28 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:41:45 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 01:45:41 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 01:46:59 -!- silas428 [n=ryan@c-67-182-172-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #scheme 01:47:19 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:51:44 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:53:35 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 01:53:36 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 01:54:19 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-99-165-18-210.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:54:50 orgy__ [n=ratm_@pD9FFDBB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:58:26 pilkarn [n=hask@h84n3c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #scheme 01:58:57 when tesing for primality should I check for (round (sqrt n)) or (round-upwards (sqrt n)) ? 01:59:17 ie (round-upwards (sqrt 10)) -> 4 01:59:34 not that it is a big deal just wondering 01:59:42 pilkarn: when could it matter? 01:59:49 when it does? 01:59:57 which would be when? 02:00:15 ah you mean n can never be dvivisble by (n-1) ? 02:00:22 wait it isnt either 02:00:25 oobv 02:00:29 but thats not what im asking 02:00:34 what do you mean? 02:00:49 I am asking for a hypothetical example in which using round-upwards would give you the correct answer, but round wouldn't 02:00:53 (for the primality test) 02:01:01 i dont know thats why im asking 02:01:07 well 02:01:12 let's think about it 02:01:15 just ebcasue i cant give one doesnt mean there isnt one 02:01:19 at most, rounding up can cause you to test one more value, right? 02:01:28 yes 02:01:34 so let's look at cases 02:01:38 if sqrt(n) is integral 02:01:51 then (round (sqrt n)) == (sqrt n) == (round-up (sqrt n)) 02:01:54 so there's no problem there 02:01:58 true 02:02:05 if (sqrt n) is not integral, then n is not divisible by it 02:02:18 true 02:02:28 and if n is divisible by (round-up (sqrt n)), which is > (sqrt n), then it must also be divisible by a value < (sqrt n) 02:02:38 so...no, it shouldn't matter :) 02:02:43 why must it 02:02:49 because 02:02:54 let's suppose that n is divisible by k 02:02:55 okay? 02:03:00 yes 02:03:00 and let's let k > (sqrt n) 02:03:13 since n is divisible by k, we know that (* j k) = n for some j 02:03:14 right? 02:03:29 suppose that j > (sqrt n) 02:03:36 yes 02:03:46 if j > sqrt n and k > sqrt n, then we have two numbers, both larger than (sqrt n), being multiplied together 02:03:48 ah i see it cant be 02:03:50 yeah 02:03:51 :) 02:03:58 thanx 02:04:10 no problem 02:08:03 -!- bitweiler [n=bitweile@ppp-70-243-143-99.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:09:04 -!- pilkarn [n=hask@h84n3c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has left #scheme 02:10:06 a-s [n=user@92.80.82.132] has joined #scheme 02:10:38 -!- orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFC467.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:14:02 ooh, a case-sensitivity flame war on the R6RS list! 02:15:22 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:18:55 Impossible! 02:20:35 flamewars, about scheme? Say it isn't so! 02:21:00 ... and on case-sensitivity -- what are the chances of that? 02:29:07 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:30:18 I'm in favor of case-sensitivity just to make it impossible for people like Riastradh to intentionally change the case of symbols depending on context - I find it very hard to read. 02:31:21 *Elly* is in favor of case-sensitivity 02:31:59 Sinners! 02:32:12 What about the spirit of Scheme? 02:32:20 which spirit is this? 02:32:21 What about the little children? 02:32:45 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 02:33:14 eli: speaking of sinners, i am converting documentation programmatically: my comment markup -> texinfo -> texinfo xml -> scribble 02:33:46 Heh, I'd say "Oy", but you started that sentence nicely... 02:33:55 What's "texinfo xml"? 02:33:59 is there a decent package for writing documentation *in* scheme? 02:34:06 texinfo xml is an xml encoding of texinfo 02:34:27 Elly: Yes, of course. 02:34:39 neilv: Is it encoding the sources or the rendering? 02:34:46 the source 02:35:13 this is a convenient way to parse texinfo. then i just use ssax 02:35:15 So you're not really going through texinfo in that chain, right? 02:35:52 eli: what is it? 02:35:56 there is a step at which i have texinfo language, but i don't format from texinfo, correct 02:36:26 foo.ss -> foo.texi -> foo.texi.xml -> foo.scrbl 02:36:55 neilv: What about converting your documentation sources to scribble -- that would be pretty easy, I think. 02:37:43 neilv: You can probably go a long way with a module that will reprovide the important bits with names that are used in texinfo, and the `@' syntax will make the rest pretty easy. (Unless you use some of the lower-level tex stuff.) 02:37:55 refusenik [n=refuseni@pool-71-246-117-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:37:55 Elly: In the PLT context it's called "Scribble". 02:38:21 *Elly* has not used this thing :O 02:38:35 eli: eventually, i will embed scribble in my source. i wanted to do this evolutionary step first 02:38:53 -!- refusenik [n=refuseni@pool-71-246-117-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:38:56 pilkarn [n=hask@h84n3c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #scheme 02:39:04 texinfo is slightly better suited to embedding, too 02:39:26 neilv: In what way? 02:40:09 eli: for one thing, instead of having braces around big blocks of code, then have "@foo" on a line to start, then the lines of content, then "@end foo" on a line to terminate 02:40:11 (That's not an attack, BTW -- I really would like to know about the possible weaknesses that we have... Especially if they're the fixable kind) 02:40:35 it's a little more line-oriented 02:41:23 i suppose with a little emacs support, i can make embedded scribble as convenient 02:41:30 Elly: if you want to read about it: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/scribble/ 02:41:58 neilv: Are you really using such things? -- What kind of support are you missing? 02:42:22 neilv: I mean, if you need to write a closing "tag", then it can just as well be "}", no? 02:42:43 i guess 02:43:12 anyway, this way, i can hopefully get it working in half a day 02:43:17 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.82.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:43:32 eli: huh, cool :) 02:44:06 and maybe wait for plt to do more of the embedding work, so i don't have to convert again (since inevitably they will do embedding differently than i do it, so i would have to convert once again) 02:44:47 neilv: I was kind of interested for a while at how difficult it would be to write some texinfo compatibility layer -- but I don't have any non-shallow experience with it... 02:45:17 there is no point in messing with texinfo, unless you are me 02:45:26 :) 02:45:27 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 02:45:36 where should i put stuff to automatically require? 02:45:42 at startup 02:46:00 neilv: FWIW, it should be possible to have some @begin['foo] ...text... @end['foo] 02:46:39 neilv: All you need is to have it all inside some @text{...} thing, and have `text' be a macro that will look for the (begin foo) and (end foo) markers. 02:46:55 (Ugh, drop the quotes on the @begin[foo] ... @end[foo]) 02:50:38 meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-99-165-18-210.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:52:00 doesnt plt scheme/dr scheme have a startup-load-file ? so you can ask it to requrie some of your own files automatically at startup? 02:52:17 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:52:22 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 02:52:43 neilv: BTW, when you say "wait for plt to do more of the embedding work", do you mean just the way documentation will be extracted from a source file? 02:53:06 pilkarn: Are you talking about mzscheme, or drscheme? 02:53:17 eli: both 02:53:21 i want for both 02:53:39 And what is it that you expect exactly? 02:53:59 i have some files that i almost always require, i want them to be available without having to require them 02:54:22 If you're using modules, then when you're writing `#lang scheme', then you specify that you require all of the bindings from `scheme' -- there's no way to change that. 02:54:40 and you cant add extra ones= 02:54:41 ? 02:54:44 You could, of course, write a file that provides everything from `scheme', as well as a bunch of stuff -- then use that as your language. 02:54:52 eli: i want to be able to specify the entire documentation for my library in the library source file, and with as little ugliness and redundancy as possible 02:54:53 if you don't do lang scheme what do you get? 02:54:55 Yes, you can add stuff -- with a `require'. 02:55:22 -!- pilkarn [n=hask@h84n3c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has left #scheme 02:55:30 [ugh] 02:56:06 benny` [n=benny@i577A1356.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 02:56:11 neilv: Right -- so it's the extraction that you're talking about, yes? 02:56:42 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 02:57:10 i'm not sure what you mean. i'm reading ssax source in another window right now, and distracted 02:57:20 -!- npe [n=npe@p2245-ipbf09wakayama.wakayama.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:58:01 You said that it might be better to wait for plt to do more "embedding", I wanted to know if that's referring to extracting the documentation from the source. 02:58:28 eli: it means the way that documentation is embedded in the source code 02:59:11 Well, there is no way to do it in the style that you're using... 02:59:20 Not right now. 02:59:21 that could affect the documentation language itself, it could mean that some heuristics are used to derive documentation from source by default, etc 02:59:52 I don't think that anyone would want to go with any "heuristic" kind of thing... 03:01:29 by default. so, say i explicitly say in the embedded documentation "@doc-next-proc" and begin with a free-form text block describing the procedure that is defined immediately after this chunk of documentation... 03:02:01 ...then the "extractor" will look at that procedure and turn this into a "@defproc" form (or whatever) with the contract and everything 03:02:44 or i could say "@doc-proc-by-name foo", and the extractor would look through the module for the definition of "foo" to do the same thing 03:04:05 that alone would be a big win, and would keep the doc and code in sync in that regard 03:04:22 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:04:42 neilv: The thing is that the documentation part must be just Scheme -- the dangerous thing in these kind of facilities is that they're very text-oriented, and pretty much ignore the semantics. 03:06:15 This is partly why I suggested the literate programming thing earlier -- you can get two sets of binding for a single macro, so `foo' will mean one thing when the code is required as usual (eg, it will mean `define'), and another when required as a piece of documentation (eg, `defproc'). 03:06:17 eli: in 99% of the cases, what i just described would work perfectly. in the other 1%, the documentation author just does it manually 03:07:03 eli: i would have to see that work. what i just described is what i want right now, and what i think would let one do all the plt documentation if one wanted 03:08:47 Well, I think that there must be some saner way... One that is similar to the above, where you still get to use source expressions to do both tasks. 03:09:32 sure 03:10:16 It's not that I'm picky about the 1% leftover -- it's the fact that when things are done right, you almost immediately get to benefit from good karma -- things like new kind of macros that work at both levels, having the documentation not confused over all kinds of weird `require's, and having it not fooled by tools that do stuff behind your back. 03:11:42 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 03:12:27 fudge. ssax doesn't seem to have an api for defining entities 03:12:42 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0793.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:15:15 MatrixFrog [n=TJ@208.179.109.115] has joined #scheme 03:17:33 djd74 [n=djd74@v-209-98-139-139.mn.visi.com] has joined #scheme 03:18:43 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:18:56 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 03:19:55 -!- djd74 [n=djd74@v-209-98-139-139.mn.visi.com] has quit [] 03:20:23 http://osdir.com/ml/lisp.scheme.ssax-sxml/2008-06/msg00004.html 03:20:40 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit ["The computer fell asleep"] 03:21:09 djd74 [n=djd74@v-209-98-139-139.mn.visi.com] has joined #scheme 03:22:53 *MatrixFrog* is watching these http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/ 03:28:48 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:33:27 *mejja* Agrees with GJR. 03:34:48 oh, this is asinine 03:35:57 what's asinine? 03:36:03 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:36:08 sorry, nevermind 03:36:13 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 03:37:48 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Client Quit] 03:38:08 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:38:38 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:38:46 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:39:32 *jcowan* unvanishes 03:39:50 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:40:29 So, lots of traffic on r6rs-discuss. 03:41:17 jcowan: read and learn mr cowan 03:41:41 I seem to be doing a lot of teaching, or at any rate infodumping. 03:48:05 -!- djd74 [n=djd74@v-209-98-139-139.mn.visi.com] has quit [] 03:49:15 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:51:13 do people use any pattern-matching library for transforming xml represented as plt "xml" objects, or do they just do it manually? 03:55:25 -!- benny` is now known as benny 03:56:46 -!- Inhuman [n=somethin@S0106001d7e47087f.su.shawcable.net] has quit [] 03:58:54 neilv: You mean xexprs? 03:59:39 *eli* beats mejja with a capital ö 04:00:12 o 04:00:41 eli: or the element/pcdata/etc objects 04:01:23 i will just do it manually 04:01:54 neilv: I think (but I'm not sure) that people prefer to use xexprs more. 04:02:36 when processing parsed xml as opposed to writing xml? 04:03:07 Yes -- convert the xml to xexprs and go on from there. 04:03:08 i guess it would be easier to use xexprs 04:03:38 At least that what I did in all cases that I used xml. 04:04:08 (Which I admit is not much, so use salt to taste.) 04:04:43 unclear which would be faster. but that's academic for this purpose 04:05:12 Well, if you need speed then you'll need to measure. 04:05:29 i don't 04:05:34 In both cases I'm not sure that the PLT code is optimized in any special way... 04:07:27 eli: A capital island? 04:07:55 No. 04:08:47 Please make sense. 04:09:52 eli: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ö_(landområde) 04:09:56 Do you really want me to dump random parts from the r6rs flamewar here? 04:10:55 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@221.235.63.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:12:32 zbigniew: I can't understand whether this is an island called "Ö" or whether "Ö" means "island" in that language. (In any case, that's unrelated to why I said that.) 04:13:17 "A streetcar named Ö" 04:13:18 [It was, however, impressive that the URL survived the way from Emacs, through VNC, and into Windows -- and didn't change to random junk at any point...] 04:13:52 -!- orgy__ [n=ratm_@pD9FFDBB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:16:00 *mejja* testing: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ö_(landområde) 04:16:49 http://tinyurl.com/ctpp8p 04:17:19 "ctpp8p," I believe, is the sound of Bill the Cat 04:18:10 ÅÄÖ http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ö_(landområde) åäö 04:19:05 don't poke me there, I'm very case-sensitive today 04:22:15 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@221.235.63.13] has joined #scheme 04:24:54 neilv pasted "stupid-easy naive manual xml processing" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75947 04:32:47 eli annotated #75947 "Not that I know what it's doing..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75947#1 04:37:28 i don't yet know what kind of state i'll have to drag around, nor what kind of generalizations i might want to refactor for 04:38:01 plain scheme is easier to refactor, imho 04:40:45 The CFG for Intermediate Student with Lambda (from PLT-Scheme) says that an expr can be a "(quoteid)". Does anyone know what that refers to? 04:43:03 neilv: If you're referring to my use of `for*' -- it's something that took me some time to get used to (since I had my own iterator macros in Swindle), but I eventually admitted that making them similar to `let' etc makes it very easy to remember and maintain such code. 04:43:33 i tend to turn everything into a named-let 04:43:47 because that's the most flexible 04:44:01 sometimes i use for-each, but am prepared to turn it into named-let 04:44:23 i should probably use list comprehensions more, tho 04:49:30 to use an example: in this case, "seen-front?" is state that can easily be done functionally, through the use of named-let here 04:49:57 danking, thats a typo in the docs I think 04:50:01 neilv: Well, what I said applies even more if you like named lets -- in contrast to my iterator forms, `for' and friends are very close to a named let. 04:50:22 in the source it says 'id 04:50:46 but im not sure since right below that it says 'quoted 04:50:51 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:51:01 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 04:51:55 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:52:23 neilv: I see what you mean -- and turning a `for' to a named let for the extra state is probably going to be easier than a `for-each' -- the body should not change as much. (Specifically, you won't need to remove the lambda and move the list that you iterate on to the front since it will already be there.) 04:53:11 jonrafkind: Do you have any clue what the intended meaning is? 04:54:48 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:56:59 danking, i tried to find an answer but i dunno 04:57:10 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.161.233] has joined #scheme 04:57:13 jonrafkind: Thanks 04:58:56 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.161.233] has quit [Client Quit] 04:59:19 yhara_ [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:59:59 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:00:57 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:02:09 Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.97.123] has joined #scheme 05:10:13 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176222236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:10:47 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:12:55 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-15.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:13:33 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:14:14 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.97.123] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:14:49 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:19:11 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:20:38 -!- yhara_ [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:21:45 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-15.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:22:16 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-15.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:24:53 xexprs should be changed to use keyword arguments, rather than that error-prone element for the attributes 05:25:27 (a #:href "http://foo/" "some page") 05:26:21 (b "some text") rather than (b () "some text") 05:27:32 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176202128.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:36 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.161.233] has joined #scheme 05:34:48 raikov [n=igr@186.75.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:35:02 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:36:10 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-99-165-18-210.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["has been attacked by a grue"] 05:38:40 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-15.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:39:05 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Bailing out"] 05:39:07 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-15.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:47:11 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has left #scheme 05:47:55 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-135-27.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:55:19 Modius 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[n=boris@195-50-200-37-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 06:41:58 neilv: Doing just that would be a little uncomfortable, since it will require quoting them, it would be even more convenient to have the elements themselves as functions. 06:42:23 (I have some code that does that, but it's not public ready yet) 06:42:56 I did see many errors that were a result of the current state, BTW. 06:43:01 -!- eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has left #scheme 06:43:14 eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 06:43:24 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:46:40 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-223-47.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:47:11 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-223-47.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:48:44 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-211-18-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 06:53:14 -!- Modius 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[n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:29:22 -!- higepon516 [n=taro@FL1-122-135-74-92.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:39:24 choas [n=lars@p5B0DCA4B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:04:17 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:05:01 berat [n=berat@d-stu.ibun.edu.tr] has joined #scheme 10:05:03 hey 10:05:09 i ask a simple question 10:05:15 what does this line mean 10:05:52 (if (symbol=? x y) ...) 10:05:59 i am newbie o drscheme 10:06:05 sorry for that question 10:07:07 np - this is a channel for discussing the language 10:07:12 and everyone was a newbie once 10:07:44 yeap 10:08:19 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #scheme 10:08:29 symbol=? is a function expecting 2 symbols - and returning t if they are the same symbol 10:08:30 what does if(symbol=? x y)...) it checks y is symmbol and equal to x 10:08:38 hmm 10:08:58 AllNight^, yo know PLAI scheme 10:09:10 no - remember that x & y will be evaluated 10:09:28 so it checks if both x & y have a value which is a symbol 10:09:38 hmm 10:09:38 and if so - that they are the same symbol 10:09:39 e.g. 10:09:44 thanks for the answer 10:09:52 np :) 10:10:31 i try to understand substitution in scheme.We try to write an interpreter for scheme 10:10:39 substitution is hard issue 10:11:03 ah meta-circulator evaluators :) 10:11:09 are you going through SICP? 10:11:27 berat, you can use LAMBDA to implement substitution 10:12:02 Reloaded [n=reloaded@CBL217-132-155-227.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #scheme 10:12:14 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0562A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:12:20 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 10:12:43 Hi people. I need to write a program that asks for n integers from the user. 10:12:51 And also a destination number x. 10:13:06 banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #scheme 10:13:12 The program needs to tell if you can get x from those n numbers, using the basic operations. 10:13:26 AllNight^, i am using PLAI actually 10:13:34 For example, if you enter 1 5 6 7 and dest num. 21, it returns 6/(1 - 5/7) 10:13:42 I need to use recursion to do it. 10:13:49 Can anyone please assist me? 10:14:39 Reloaded - have you read anything on search / backtracking? 10:14:56 I dont know that text berat 10:15:03 AllNight^: No 10:15:04 is it any good? 10:15:08 http://paste.org/5504 here 10:15:33 then I'd suggest you start there Reloaded - becuase your not talking about a 5 line program here 10:15:59 *AllNight^* remembers doing exactly that exercise when he was an undergrad :) 10:16:18 (though I did it common lisp not scheme as that was the course language.. but the differences are minor) :) 10:16:38 AllNight^: I have a way to do it but it might be too complex writing it 10:16:53 And it's also not recursive 10:18:11 well - consider your base case 10:18:20 the user provides 1 number and a destination 10:18:47 AllNight^: i think he needs your help thinking recursively :) (it can be a bit of a headf*ck when learning imo) 10:19:51 are there anyone knows plai 10:19:52 banisterfiend - I got introduced to it using russian dolls as an analogy - which worked very well for me :) 10:20:13 AllNight^, please continue 10:20:44 well in the base case there are two possibilities 10:20:47 AllNight^: personally i still have a bit of trouble with it sometimes hehe :) 10:20:55 either the number is your destination - or it isnt 10:21:15 what is your program supposed to do in the latter case? when the destination *cant* be reached? 10:22:19 It should return 0 10:22:38 And say: No, impossible 10:23:42 okay - now, what do you do when you have exactly 2 inputs & a destination? 10:23:55 Uhmmm ... I'm not sure! 10:24:18 okay - think about that for a moment :) 10:24:55 If we can use one of the operations to get dest. ? 10:25:24 right :) 10:25:57 ok ... 10:26:07 Then I ask myself: yes? no? 10:26:08 (so you just try every combination of * and - and / ?) 10:26:13 now the tricky case - what do you if you have _more_ than 2 numbers 10:26:19 banisterfiend - yes 10:26:34 or whatever operators your allowing anyway 10:27:07 yes, just the basic ops 10:27:32 AllNight^: I'm not sure 10:28:07 I check if I can get dest/x with y and z? 10:28:37 assuming the inputs are x,y,z ? 10:29:01 I would do it by saying if I have more than 2 inputs 10:29:15 then for each input / operator 10:29:27 see what expressions I can build from the remaining inputs 10:29:48 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-122.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:29:56 I'm sorry - I'm not explaining this terribly well, but I've just woken up 10:30:09 and am only just starting my 2nd coffee 10:30:18 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-122.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 10:30:20 *AllNight^* really _not_ a morning person :) 10:30:40 AllNight^: Can I PM you for a second? 10:30:43 sure 10:30:47 Thanks 10:30:49 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0562A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:31:01 but dont pm for too long 10:31:06 i want to learn the answer to this too :) 10:34:35 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0562A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:36:41 + operator 10:36:45 banisterfiend - I've promised to explain it later 10:36:51 as I'm kinda fuzzy right now 10:36:53 or - can have a more than two number 10:36:54 oh ok 10:36:55 no problem 10:37:00 but if you want a copy of the explanation 10:37:06 * has more than two numbers i guess 10:37:06 you'd be very welcome :) 10:37:08 yeah i would 10:37:21 just stick it on a pastie or something :) 10:49:36 what about that 10:49:40 what does that mean 10:50:10 (if (symbol=? v sub-id) val expr) 10:52:05 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 10:54:08 -!- Reloaded [n=reloaded@CBL217-132-155-227.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:56:22 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-95-77.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 11:08:56 -!- banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:11:58 wefwf 11:12:01 sorry 11:12:09 banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #scheme 11:17:38 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:22:03 berat, you can use LAMBDA to implement substitution 11:22:37 your idiot book probably dictates you use the worst possible syntax representation though 11:23:28 Cheshire, 11:23:38 i have to fallow the book as you understand 11:23:44 http://paste.org/5506 here 11:23:49 I suggest: Burn the book 11:23:53 because i am student in university 11:24:00 and the university 11:24:27 and instructor who gave this lesson,dictate to use this book 11:25:07 did you look at the code 11:25:13 it is from book PLAI 11:26:21 Cheshire: If you don't know the book, or what it is about, then please avoid giving bogus advice regarding it. 11:26:48 eli, I never heard of caputure or HOAS eithre 11:26:48 (or making unfounded bogus conclusions on it.) 11:27:04 eli, yeah nobody should use HOAS because it's buggy in comparison to using symbols for syntax with bindig 11:27:10 and i make lambda calculus 11:27:14 what is HOAS 11:27:15 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:27:44 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 11:28:03 Cheshire: Are you seriously saying this? (And this is a serious question.) 11:28:55 eli, again and again with the "I know better than you" attitude 11:29:16 eli, do you think berat is learning from us arguing ? I don't 11:29:17 Cheshire: You're again putting words in my mouth. 11:29:47 Cheshire: No, he certainly does not learn from this, just as reading about HOAS will not help him one bit. 11:29:52 wrong 11:30:02 what is HOAS 11:30:13 home owner association services :DDDD 11:30:28 berat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher-order_abstract_syntax 11:30:43 berat: Ask Cheshire, he'll explain and you'll be able to pass your course with glaring grades. 11:31:19 Cheshire: When you're done explaining what HOAS is, feel free to demonstrate how it can be used to write a PL textbook. 11:31:43 Cheshire: Given that there is no such textbook in common use, you will make immense profit from all of this. 11:32:02 eli, do you even realize you are doing it? no 11:32:04 i just try to learn.Passing the course is in 2nd plan 11:32:23 Cheshire: However, if your knowledge sums up at "idiot book probably dictates you use the worst possible syntax representation", then please do shut up. 11:32:27 berat, I think that is wise 11:33:06 eli, yeah I have no knowledge of anything compared to you 11:33:30 no fight :D Everyone is bro 11:33:31 :D 11:33:58 Cheshire: You certainly try hard to demonstrate it. 11:34:58 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:35:10 Cheshire, if i use lambda for substitution and if it is in the plai.I do it most likely in the future 11:35:30 but i have to understand subs method that is in the link i gave you 11:35:31 eli, if you would just realize that your goal of being 100% right and smarter than everyone all the time was not constructive.. 11:36:33 i've never known eli to behave like that 11:38:18 Cheshire: You continue to behave like an ass. Perhaps it is the recent nick change that makes you behave even worse than before. At least you seemed a little better when you were 'vixey'. 11:38:50 yeah it's not you.. it's me 11:38:58 Cheshire: In the current case, berat is trying to make his way through a very decent book, written by someone who knows his material, and has proved successful for a number of years. 11:38:59 sorry eli this is disruptive to #scheme I wont argue anymore 11:39:30 ah it's vixey. well there we go. 11:39:48 Cheshire: However, berat is clearly having some problems get the hang of basic Scheme -- he asked about the meaning of `symbol=?'. 11:40:27 eli, ok I will continue: You are clearly much smarter than berat too. Well done 11:40:45 do you want a plinth? 11:40:52 Cheshire: As a reply to a question that started at *that* level, you refer the poor guy to HOAS -- he's having problems comparing symbols, and you truly think that going to read HOAS papers is going to help him in any way? 11:41:21 A *reasonable* answer could be an actual answer for his question, instead of sending him off in an unproductive tangent. 11:42:18 -!- banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:42:36 talk about unproductive tangents lol 11:42:54 (BTW, yes, when it comes to questions about Scheme, I know more than him; when it comes to question about PLAI I know more than him and than you; I'm not saying these things in any kind of dismissive way, I simply had spent much more time on them.) 11:43:51 berat: As for your question and what you should do with your course now -- I can repeat my earlier recomendation. 11:44:04 okey 11:44:16 i am reading 11:44:20 berat: It seems to me that you're now well into the book, and at this point you should know Scheme pretty well. 11:44:35 yes i guess 11:44:51 i learn something about scheme.And i am better than 2-3 moths 11:45:00 i learn something about scheme.And i am better than 2-3 moths ago 11:45:01 berat: If you're having problems with things like `symbol=?' then clearly your teacher is not doing a very good job introducing you to the basic tools that you need you know at this point. 11:45:25 actually my teacher does not amke chapter 3 11:45:41 So, are you trying to go ahead of the class? 11:45:47 i study to prepare lesson.And i study for better understading 11:45:56 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 11:46:06 my only wih is to understand more clearly 11:46:17 In this case, you're jumping ahead in the PLAI material without those tools. 11:46:18 state my question to my teacher more clearly 11:46:37 my lesson is tmorrow 11:46:52 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-252-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 11:47:06 One thing that you can do is explain this to your teacher -- this is probably a good idea since s/he will know good places to refer you to, which will help you later in the course, and avoid wasting time. 11:47:06 i though i i go to lesson by preparing subject.This is better way for me to learn 11:47:15 but you know better tha me 11:47:24 -!- mike is now known as Guest61525 11:47:33 hmm 11:47:48 Another thing that you can do is lookup these things yourself -- with the kind of problems that you're having, my guess is that htdp will be very helpful. 11:48:01 eli, there are very foreign term for me 11:48:01 (You can find that book at www.htdp.org) 11:48:09 Which term? 11:48:16 for example 11:48:19 bound-id 11:48:46 idont understand totally what scope is for example 11:49:06 bound instance,free instance,binding instance 11:49:23 for example {with {x 5} {+ x x}} 11:49:40 `bound-id' is used in PLAI to refer to a field in the syntax representation that has the identifier that is bound in the form. For example, the `with' representaion (which you make with the `with' consructor) has a field for the identifier that gets bound by it. 11:50:01 With the (obvious) way the book represents syntax, that's a symbol. 11:50:08 my understanding sayx x in with is bound instance {+ x x} is binding instance of x and 5 is scope of x 11:50:29 but i dont know i understand correctly.If i understand truly that is perfect :) 11:50:44 yeah i understand with is symbol 11:51:13 No -- in the WAE syntax of {with {x 1} {+ x x}} the first `x' is a binding instance, and the other two are bound occurrences. 11:51:33 hmm 11:51:34 They're bound because they're in the scope of the binding instance. 11:51:38 x binding instance 11:51:46 {+ x x} bound instance 11:52:05 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 11:52:14 Another example is {with {x 1} {+ x y}} -- in this case, the first `x' is a binding instance, the second is a bound occurrence, and the `y' is a free occurrence. 11:52:17 and {+ x x} is scope of x 11:52:28 `y' is free because it's not in the scope of any `y' binding. 11:52:28 but 11:52:46 in this example drscheme gives error which is y is unbound 11:52:53 so how can i handle this 11:53:00 defining y as global 11:53:27 You can't -- in the WAE language you have to "define" `y' by using a {with {y } ...} context. 11:54:19 berat: Did you read section 3.1 in the book? 11:54:36 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-95-77.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:55:24 yea i read 11:56:13 So read it again a few times -- it's a very important section in the book, and a fundamental piece of knowledge that you'll use in the rest of it (and in anything related to programming languages). 11:57:42 i understand that in definition 1 {with {x 5} {+ x {with {x 3} 10}}} -> {with {x 5} {+ 5 {with {5 3} 10}}} it wold be rejected by a parse book says.And i understand like that with has to have a binding instance like with{x ... or {with y... 11:58:00 okey 11:58:18 i realized substitution is fundemental aspect of interpreter 11:59:39 berat: No, the reason that definition results in a bogus answer is that it made you substitute the *binding instance* -- and that is meaningless. 12:00:18 eli, i want to understand how to write interpreter,if i understand the book very well.I plan to write my own interprete.This is very hard.And in adittion in the course we cant finish the bookk i know that. 12:00:19 A binding instance should never be substituted -- since it's not a occurrence of an identifier (that's the conclusion of the problem in that definition). 12:00:38 yes 12:00:42 it is my point 12:00:47 sorry for my bad english 12:01:05 binding instance shold not be substituted,we must avoid this 12:01:09 i understand this 12:01:09 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 12:01:21 You can take your time -- the book is not going into any of the low-level tools that are needed for implementing a "real" interpreter (whatever that means), but it should cover all the important stuff. 12:01:55 berat: I have to run out now, but one more comment: 12:02:02 the 12:02:04 Another place that you *could* try is to look at my class notes -- they tend to have more examples than the book. In this case, the relevant lecture is here: http://csu660.barzilay.org/lec06.txt 12:02:06 last question 12:02:24 do you suggest any tutorial or any sources for lambda calculus 12:02:40 But note that the syntax that is used in my lecture notes is slightly different from the book -- don't be confused and try to use that code -- it won't work. 12:02:57 okey i check it 12:03:15 the important thing is to understand the logic 12:03:18 i guess 12:03:27 how can i download you package 12:03:34 this is more useful to me 12:03:48 You can get a very quick overview of the lambda calculus in my notes too -- it's at http://csu660.barzilay.org/lec12.txt -- but that is getting much deeper into the material. (And PLAI doesn't cover it nearly as extensively as I do.) 12:04:27 You can get my package at my course's web site -- see the "software" section at http://csu660.barzilay.org/resources.html , 12:04:57 i see a book 12:05:07 lambda calculus its syntax and semantics 12:05:12 this is 621 pages 12:05:16 chaoslynx [n=cpehle@p57A74AC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:05:18 But I'll warn you one last time -- this is *not* directly compatible with the PLAI text, and it is likely to confuse you in your own course -- because it looks similar, but in fact is very different. 12:05:25 i dont know exactly my teach do what ? 12:05:33 [Yes, the lambda calculus can have lots of text on it.] 12:05:45 Anyway, I'm going to run away now. 12:06:17 *eli* grabs Cheshire's plinth and disappears 12:06:18 okey thank you 12:06:23 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:13:49 -!- fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:18:06 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:25:28 hey i ask a quesiotn (if (symbol=? v sub-id) val expr) mean if v and sub-id same symbol.send value of sub-id to v 12:25:48 (if #t val expr) ~> val 12:25:52 (if #f val expr) ~> expr 12:26:05 does (symbol=? v sub-id) ~> #t or ~> #f ? 12:26:09 hmm 12:26:50 i guess 12:27:18 symbol=? is predicate i guess and predicate is boolean function 12:29:02 berat: symbol=? compares two symbols and returns #t if they're equal, else #f 12:39:01 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:39:42 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:44:51 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:45:13 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:56:53 ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:58:44 banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #scheme 13:00:00 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 13:00:58 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176222236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:01:37 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [] 13:02:21 hi 13:04:31 higepon917 [n=taro@FL1-122-135-74-92.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 13:14:15 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:17:17 neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 13:33:41 yates [n=yates@cpe-071-070-224-093.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:33:48 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 13:37:02 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 13:42:59 tjafk [n=timj@e176192070.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 13:49:00 -!- neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:00:29 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 14:05:58 kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43D32.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 14:09:40 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:10:02 eli, 14:10:05 are you there 14:12:30 wingo-tp [n=wingo@138.Red-79-151-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:14:04 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-122.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 14:14:33 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-122.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 14:16:35 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:17:47 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:20:50 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:22:41 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A2641.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:29:45 -!- banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:31:49 -!- higepon917 [n=taro@FL1-122-135-74-92.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:32:48 banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #scheme 14:36:09 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFDBB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:43:42 is there someone who knows plai 14:50:42 neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 14:51:56 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-95-185.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 14:58:19 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-196-136.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:02:58 -!- Guest61525 [n=m@dslb-088-066-252-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:03:50 r5rs repeat 15:03:50 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for repeat. 15:12:19 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:13:16 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 15:16:30 anyone knows plai 15:22:59 Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 15:26:45 Damn. My mailbox exploded yesterday. 15:27:19 -!- berat [n=berat@d-stu.ibun.edu.tr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:27:53 *Daemmerung* purges a buttload of missed-the-boat "Case sensitivity" bickering 15:28:35 i think you mean "Case Sensitivity" bickering 15:28:44 We should convert it into a sitcom. 15:29:13 johnnowak: You forgot to capitalise I. :-P 15:29:30 *johnnowak* eviscerates pbusser2 15:29:57 *pbusser2* grins 15:30:07 grinning without viscera :) 15:30:28 -!- eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Success] 15:36:02 Another Encyclopedia Wingo Mystery! "The Case of the Grinning Viscera" 15:36:25 hah 15:37:25 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:44:27 eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 15:44:41 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:53:01 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit ["Rebooting emacs(!)"] 15:53:09 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.161.233] has joined #scheme 15:56:31 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 15:57:25 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:59:50 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:03:57 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:06:41 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 16:08:53 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:16:59 *Fare* sends a reminder about the Boston Lisp Meeting 16:17:11 r5rs null? 16:17:12 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_410 16:17:14 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/6o68us 16:18:20 has anybody played with Ikarus' non-blocking ports? 16:18:34 chturne [n=lookatmy@host86-143-95-150.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 16:25:26 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:30:19 amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #scheme 16:39:27 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:43:52 tejat [n=tejat1@89.246.215.244] has joined #scheme 16:47:53 -!- offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:59:46 -!- tejat [n=tejat1@89.246.215.244] has left #scheme 17:02:16 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 17:03:41 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 17:08:19 neilv, you were discussing iteration last night. You may wish to look into foof-loop, at , which is pretty much syntactically compatible with named LET, and written in portable Scheme. 17:09:51 rotty, what about them? 17:15:14 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:15:26 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 17:18:07 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:18:54 -!- chaoslynx [n=cpehle@p57A74AC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:20:51 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:24:48 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-122.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 17:25:15 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-122.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 17:25:56 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:28:01 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-122.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 17:29:28 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-122.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 17:30:40 stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 17:30:45 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-122.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 17:31:35 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-122.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 17:34:00 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 17:42:22 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 17:46:20 -!- kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43D32.access.telenet.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:49:07 I sweer prescheme has the worst error messages 17:49:13 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:49:58 r0bby_ [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme 17:50:37 -!- Lemonator [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:50:37 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:50:37 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:50:37 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:50:37 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:50:37 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:50:37 -!- saccade [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:50:37 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:50:37 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:52:11 Lemonator [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:52:11 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 17:52:11 sjamaan [n=sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has joined #scheme 17:52:11 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 17:52:11 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 17:52:11 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 17:52:11 saccade [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:52:11 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:52:58 Nate pasted "PS type Error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75966 17:53:37 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 17:54:40 rudybot_ [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 17:54:46 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:54:47 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 17:54:48 SchemeNate, you tried to apply the number 0 as if it were a nullary procedure. 17:54:48 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 17:55:08 So Pre-Scheme complained that the type INTEGER is not the same as the type of a nullary procedure yielding a value of a presently unknown type. 17:57:09 Oops. 17:58:17 Thanks, I have no idea why those perns where there. 17:59:51 -!- rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:02:50 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 18:03:18 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-226-164.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 18:03:49 -!- mike is now known as Guest80686 18:06:03 Simple error + award-winningly obfuscated error message = Great Success. 18:06:44 Would I use (^ char) for a string type? 18:07:29 -!- rudybot_ is now known as rudybot__ 18:08:20 -!- stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [No route to host] 18:08:24 Seems to be 18:08:35 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:08:35 rudybot__: What you doin? 18:08:35 SchemeNate: eh? Try "rudybot__: help". 18:09:37 It looks like he's growing a beard__. 18:09:42 singi [n=singi@85.8.10.149] has joined #scheme 18:10:35 -!- rudybot__ is now known as rudybot 18:11:02 *offby1* brandishes scissors 18:11:06 Hm just shaved 18:11:14 a close shave indeed 18:12:37 damn! I though rudybot was a girl... 18:12:45 To be honest, Daemmerung, the error message was not obfuscated. 18:13:12 It requires that the reader know that Pre-Scheme is performing type inference. 18:13:45 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:14:40 `Type error in (0); type mismatch: integer, (() -> T66)' says that something in the expression (0) required unifying the types INTEGER and (() -> T66), which obviously cannot be unified. 18:15:57 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-122.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 18:16:34 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-122.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:17:25 rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #scheme 18:17:34 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-122.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 18:19:28 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:19:34 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 18:21:21 I just didn't see the (0) in the code. 18:25:29 (output (0)) ? 18:25:55 metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:26:01 clausewitz [n=th@0x535b95eb.kjnxx11.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 18:28:54 Its a low level program that bit bangs the parallel port 18:33:05 -!- ayrnieu_ is now known as ayrnieu 18:35:16 Hi all. How do I uppercase +, * and string? for emphasis?. Should I just toggle bit 5 to make it K, J and STRING_ ? 18:38:19 *Riastradh* blinks. 18:38:59 If you carefully left-justify your programs, you will find them so clear as not to need further emphasis. 18:39:27 fill-justification with two very close margins works, too. 18:39:41 he's had enough of leftist justifications 18:39:47 Whoops, it makes more sense logically to use vertical tab and LF ... sorry for the dumb question. 18:40:17 Finally! A use for vertical tab! 18:41:01 *amoe* wants ircbrowse to come back 18:42:03 X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has joined #scheme 18:50:36 jao [n=jao@220.Red-81-32-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:53:11 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Out of Memory: Killed process [9823] xchat."] 18:53:20 -!- amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["leaving"] 18:59:48 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-235-114.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 19:00:15 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-196-136.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:23:22 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:23:48 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 19:24:17 meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-99-165-16-35.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:27:53 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:31:09 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:32:38 zbigniew, you use a BOLDFACE font 19:33:56 -!- chturne [n=lookatmy@host86-143-95-150.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 19:40:46 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:43:45 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 19:45:42 -!- yates [n=yates@cpe-071-070-224-093.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Started wasting time elsewhere"] 19:47:20 ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:47:34 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:47:42 -!- ayrnieu_ is now known as ayrnieu 19:50:03 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 19:50:56 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:51:06 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 19:58:33 -!- jao [n=jao@220.Red-81-32-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:59:18 jao [n=jao@250.Red-79-155-245.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:59:24 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.161.233] has quit [] 20:08:27 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit ["Reconnecting"] 20:08:36 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-251-184-29.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 20:08:37 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:10:52 Modius__ [n=Modius@99.179.100.204] has joined #scheme 20:11:36 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-251-184-29.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:13:07 -!- clausewitz [n=th@0x535b95eb.kjnxx11.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 20:26:03 stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 20:32:52 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:34:23 Gosh, Ikarus's web page looks so much better when I excise the stylesheet. 20:35:41 ...and by `excise', of course, I meant `expunge'. Not sure how the `cise' key got so close to the `punge' key on this keyboard layout. 20:35:46 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 20:36:57 Riastradh: most web pages do. 20:37:42 y'know they redesign those keyboard layouts ever decade or so, when they take the Census -- they adjust to neologisms and such. 20:38:15 I wonder why `web designers' feel the compulsion to screw up the presentation of a web page by `styling' it. 20:38:46 It seems an awful waste of effort for everyone involved. 20:39:49 ayup 20:39:52 kinda like DRM 20:43:02 Hmm. A cursory excursion into the etymology of the word `excise' reveals that it is in fact two entirely distinct words of entirely distinct origins. 20:43:02 -!- jao [n=jao@250.Red-79-155-245.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:46:28 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:47:59 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:49:48 holy jesus r6rs-discuss. 20:50:01 Riastradh, punching the wrong neuron in your brain? 20:50:08 MatrixFrog [n=TJ@208.179.109.115] has joined #scheme 20:50:14 who cares about r6rs? Here comes r7rs 20:50:23 No, it was the right neuron after all. 20:51:13 is the "right brain" vs "left brain" discussion referring to things actually located in right vs left hemisphere? 20:51:28 (speaking of right neuron vs left neuron) 20:51:29 Maybe I ought to have said `the correct neuron'. 20:52:30 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:52:41 *Fare* collects the expunge tax 20:54:37 -!- stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:59:55 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:00:00 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 21:06:49 jao [n=jao@250.Red-79-155-245.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:09:25 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:18:46 "Every semester I have a few students who turn in their homework in Microsoft Word; for some strange reason they tend not to do so well in the course!" ;-) 21:19:00 where is that from 21:19:11 http://lists.r6rs.org/pipermail/r6rs-discuss/2009-February/004097.html 21:20:12 function-as-data is where things get really fun 21:21:02 OOP as "structs with weapons" 21:21:23 i never really thought of, say, .toString() as a weapon 21:21:30 but i guess you could say it is 21:21:53 i thought berkeley people were averse to weapons 21:22:18 perhaps they're averse to OOP then too 21:23:43 but they're not averse to marijuana 21:26:01 -!- MatrixFrog [n=TJ@208.179.109.115] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:29:04 neilv, I'm not sure whether you got this when I said it this morning, but in response to your discussion last night about iteration: you may wish to look into foof-loop, at , which is pretty much syntactically compatible with named LET, and written in portable Scheme. 21:31:00 Riastradh: i added it to my todo list to look at, thanks 21:31:13 trying to finish some coding today 21:37:14 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit ["The computer fell asleep"] 21:37:30 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 21:42:20 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-99-165-16-35.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:43:11 this is the first time that a thread has overflowed my gnus summary window -- yay r6rs-discuss? 21:48:29 It seems that when I execute my program with MrEd it does not execute my (check-expect )'s, or atleast doesn't give me any feedback on them. I'm using PLT's Intermediate Student with Lambda, is there something I'm missing? 21:54:52 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [No route to host] 21:55:06 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:55:45 i'm getting close to generating plt-style documentation from my embedded texinfo-like documentation. http://download.plt-scheme.org/doc/html/openssl/index.html 21:55:49 speaking of styled web pages 21:56:03 that url is an example of plt-style, for people who don't know 21:57:22 they do things like generate hyperlinks to definitions across documents, by resolving within the module system to find the right definition 21:58:54 nice! 21:59:23 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:59:39 i like my plain-html and spiffy pdf formats, but they make me a second-class citizen when people can't browse my documentation in the all-encompassing plt help system 21:59:50 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:00:00 heh 22:00:11 i've fallen back on generating info at this point 22:00:33 i had other aspirations, but info works well enough 22:00:58 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:01:48 i still kinda like info, and that was my original target, but even then you need to generate html. so you can point people at specific things using urls 22:02:53 the javascript plt help search is nice. you need to run it from your local installation,however. it doesn't really work on the public web one 22:03:56 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DCA4B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:04:00 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-95-185.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:04:07 -!- saccade [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:08:54 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-95-185.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 22:11:46 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-235-114.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 22:14:26 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:17:38 -!- DuClare [n=duclare@a81-197-106-84.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:24:23 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #scheme 22:24:55 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has left #scheme 22:34:14 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:34:31 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 22:35:05 schristie [n=samuel@cpe-066-057-088-143.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:41:17 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:44:36 yates [n=yates@cpe-071-070-224-093.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:44:52 what does the "!" mean in a "set!" command? 22:45:25 roughly, it means "this function modifies its argument" 22:45:46 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:46:09 metasynt1x [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:47:12 what function? the set function? 22:47:29 e.g., (set! image (car (gimp-image-new width height RGB))) 22:47:38 yep 22:47:48 it means that it changes the value bound to "image". 22:47:56 set-car! changes the car of the cons you pass in. 22:48:02 so it makes it pass by reference rather than by value? 22:48:03 the "!" is part of the identifier "set!". including a "!" in the name is just a naming convention 22:48:07 i.e., these functions with ! have side-effects. 22:48:25 and "set!" is not a function (nor procedure). it's special syntax 22:48:27 yates: yeah, it's just a convention -- everything in scheme is pass-by-reference (at least, everything where it could matter) 22:48:31 though, functions with global side effects generally don't have the ! 22:49:32 what use is it if all parameters are passed by reference? 22:49:41 yates: if you want to hack gimp script-fu, the r5rs document is probably a good starting-point for learning enough scheme. http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/ 22:50:07 if you know other imperative languages, then most of scheme will be very simple to you once you've read most of that document 22:50:22 you can skip the parts on "continuations" and formal semantics 22:50:27 i'm using The Scheme Programming Language right now - is that ok? 22:50:35 yeah, that is ok too 22:50:45 i feel like an idiot 22:50:58 what other languages do you know? 22:51:45 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 22:51:48 section 1.3.5 is the answer to your original question, btw: http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-4.html#%_sec_1.3.5 22:51:48 i've dabbled in lisp (xemacs, and gimp) on and off for 10 years, got a book on common lisp (the Winston text), but use it so infrequently i forget everything i've learned everytime i need to do something new. 22:51:50 the ! is a convention that helps show usage/intent of the function 22:51:52 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/cnuldp 22:52:55 http://rudybots.mom/is/a/buck/fifty 22:53:28 ahh - thanks much neilv 22:53:49 and Arelius! 22:53:55 yates: if you feel like taking a break for an hour to read through r5rs straight, you'll learn tons 22:54:11 you mean the specification? 22:54:17 yes 22:54:36 or a 30-minute skim 22:54:52 neilv: thank you so much for the complement - but that would probably take me about 8 hours! 22:55:04 or more 22:55:08 nah, it's very short 22:55:32 where is it (again)? 22:55:58 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/ 22:56:26 thanks 22:57:16 what does the "*" mean in "let*"? 22:57:42 neilv: i will take a look 22:57:56 yates: r5rs will answer that question too 22:58:05 r5rs let* 22:58:05 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_128 22:58:07 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/6d5gul 22:58:20 that's slick! 22:58:35 oh yeah - i knew this... 22:58:52 ok, damnit - i'm going to read the spec! 22:59:09 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:59:19 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:03:17 yates: if you just want to hack gimp scripts a little, r5rs is a good choice. if you want to spend weeks learning good scheme programming from the ground up, you want http://www.htdp.org/ 23:04:11 but with htdp, you'll have to put off your gimp hacking for weeks, since mixing the two will just confuse you :) 23:06:33 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-128-205.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:08:57 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-128-205.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 23:09:25 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@138.Red-79-151-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:14:38 neilv: "the javascript plt help search is nice. you need to run it from your local installation,however. it doesn't really work on the public web one" -- what doesn't work? 23:15:02 eli: it usually doesn't for me. or is incredibly slow 23:15:15 eli: is it trying to download a large index? 23:15:36 Yes, the index file is 2.5mb of JS code. 23:15:58 But it should work fine (I very often use it online). 23:16:02 that would do it. and also, it might not cache that js code... 23:16:26 depending on how it is loaded, and with what browser, it won't necessarily cache the js 23:16:33 Oh, you do need a browser with a good JS engine. 23:16:56 firefox doesn't cache js in some cases. depends how you do it 23:17:36 I've tried IE/FF/Safari/Opera on windows, FF and other mozillas on Linux -- and they all worked fine. 23:17:59 eli: i heard someone else complaining about it not working the other day, too. i forget who 23:18:16 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:18:27 IIRC, FF doesn't cache JS, but loads it fast; IE does cache it but is slower to load. 23:18:55 i mean that the download isn't necessarily cached either 23:19:11 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:19:34 so you might be downloading 2.5MB for every request, plus be doing a js read, plus be doing the allocations 23:19:36 I think that the problem was related to loading the index. 23:20:05 *Fare* is writing too much code at once 23:20:15 need to focus on a few functions 23:20:17 Anyway, the index file *is* pretty compact -- you can look inside and see how it looks. 23:20:44 If you have an idea how to make it smaller, it would be nice. 23:22:26 weird. it is working now, and caching across different pages 23:22:40 *SchemeNate* meaps randomley 23:24:47 neilv: ping if you find a way to make it more robust -- the whole JS thing is my hack. 23:28:06 Hmm XOR can make a nifty selective not. 23:28:46 eli: sorry, i won't be able to look at it now. coding 23:29:35 -!- schristie [n=samuel@cpe-066-057-088-143.nc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 23:29:44 neilv: I didn't talk about the source -- if you see some tweak to the headers or the including document or some such. 23:31:08 eli: it seems to be working now, so i can't debug. i was going to suggest making sure that the map is loaded via a "script" html element, to increase the likelihood it will be cached, but you very well might be doing that already 23:31:36 -!- singi [n=singi@85.8.10.149] has quit ["Lämnar"] 23:33:35 neilv: Yes, it is loaded in the header with a script. 23:45:04 -!- Lemonator [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:45:38 Lemonator [n=kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 23:50:17 geckosen1tor [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 23:50:58 dmoerner_ [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:51:53 Can anyone here give quick consultation on shift-reduce parsers? 23:52:23 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-225.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:54:21 Rhetosaur [n=heartles@203.97.179.3] has joined #scheme 23:55:00 -!- geckosen1tor [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:55:12 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-95-185.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:55:18 geckosen1tor [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 23:56:21 i have my kludge mostly working: http://www.neilvandyke.org/temporary/scribble.png 23:56:39 that's completely derived from my normal embedded documentation markup 23:57:12 neilv: you might wanna peek at the CL fare-csv library 23:57:20 (that I've vamped up recently)