00:01:04 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [No route to host] 00:01:12 interesting. in plt, the "dynamic-wind" post-thunk is executed if you ctrl-c in 00:01:24 ...the value thunk 00:02:10 What did you expect? (What would not be `interesting'?) 00:03:33 BW^- [i=Miranda@151.80.9.94] has joined #scheme 00:03:44 guys, what is the point of Haskell? 00:03:50 neilv: it's raising an exn:break 00:03:56 i'm sure i have used post-thunk for code that should not be executed after ctrl-c 00:04:04 i ask this because i'm curious to know, and nobody has told me something valuable 00:04:14 also with Standard ML, what is the point? 00:04:44 to me, it's apparent how Scheme solves a number of problems better than a number of languages, and why (because it has abstraction, for instance). 00:04:45 neilv: executing the post thunk on nonlocal exit sounds right to me... 00:04:49 so what about Haskell and Standard ML? 00:06:59 i know it's an exn: break. i need to figure out a policy and conventions for which post-thunk-type code should and should not be executed on a break 00:08:37 perhaps, if it's something that should normally not be executed, or at least you don't want to tie up the system after a user ctrl-c's, then enable breaks for the post-thunk, so that multiple ctrl-c's will let the poor user exit the code 00:09:32 or detect in the post-thunk whether we're exiting because of a break, and skip over if so 00:11:51 The contents of a post-thunk should be code that you always want executed, no matter what the exit path. That's its entire point, no? 00:12:12 Madars- [n=null@unaffiliated/madars] has joined #scheme 00:12:25 You worried about a deadlock somewhere? 00:12:28 not all exceptional conditions are created equal 00:13:21 ctrl-c might mean something different than an error that we wish to handle gracefully, for example 00:13:55 What actions have you written in post-thunks that you would not want executed after ^C? 00:13:59 does scheme has some multimethod system? 00:14:25 silkarn: google for swindle and tiny-clos 00:14:35 If you want to handle errors, use error (exception) handlers. 00:14:43 silkarn: http://barzilay.org/Swindle/ 00:15:52 (And silkarn: consider the difference between "Does Scheme have some multimethod system?" and "Can Scheme have some multimethod system?" And consider also what you might mean by "Scheme": some Scheme, all Schemes, any Scheme?) 00:19:55 hi do you have twitters 00:20:04 is there a twitter schemers thing 00:20:08 i got a twitter :] 00:20:21 Riastradh has a twitter! You should pester him about that. He loves it. 00:20:31 see your doctor about that 00:20:34 Dude. Like, oversharing much? 00:21:10 -!- Modius_ is now known as Modius 00:21:31 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-196-136.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:21:36 I don't have a twitter, but I have a fritter. OM NOM NOM NOM Not any more. 00:22:34 "I made you a fritter, but I eated it"? 00:23:41 What is a `twitter'? One who makes twits? 00:29:30 is there a way to specify the "scheme-indent-function" hints for emacs file-locally, or even better per-project or by referring to some "coding style", which defines them? 00:29:58 -!- Madars [n=null@unaffiliated/madars] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:31:02 (that would be quite useful if one does a DSL, or code using many macros (which amounts to the same thing) 00:33:25 -!- tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:35:01 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 00:35:07 rotty: by strange coincidence, i must have been thinking a similar thing when you typed that 00:35:57 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:36:28 rotty: i think the successor to quack might figure it out by querying plt scheme for info about the language and modules in use, and then applying heuristics. plus some ui for overriding the heuristics 00:36:37 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 00:36:39 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:36:54 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:37:42 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@230.Red-79-151-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:37:53 neilv: is this sucessor to quack available somewhere? 00:38:12 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:38:26 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:38:27 (and does it work when not using PLT)? 00:38:29 no, sorry. i meant "might" as in "might someday, if i implement it" 00:38:37 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 00:39:04 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 00:39:25 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 00:39:44 rotty: you could write an elisp hook function for scheme-mode that looks at the filename of the buffer, then looks around in predictable places (like current directory) for a project-specific elisp file to load. and put your settings in that file 00:41:48 neilv: can you already make the hints buffer-local? I thought they were global (which always annoyed me quite a bit)... 00:42:04 rotty: no 00:42:21 you can if you rewrite the emacs indenter, however 00:42:41 actually, just clone the indenter and change the few references to symbol properties to look up in a hashtable 00:42:41 neilv: the offending code is in scheme-mode, I guess? 00:42:51 probably lisp-mode too 00:43:13 i'm not sure. haven't looked at it in years 00:43:25 why would lisp-mode ever look at SCHEME-indent-function? 00:43:57 ah, i see what you mean. yes, you probably don't have to touch the code in lisp-mode 00:43:58 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 00:47:26 looks like the change required would be pretty local (cloning the scheme-indent-function defun, and setting the value of lisp-indent-function to the new procedure) 00:47:43 hey rotty 00:48:21 rotty: that, you could probably do without cloning the code 00:48:46 rotty: defadvice lisp-indent-function, and have it dispatch to a function determined from a buffer-local variable 00:49:16 ah, forgot about advice :-). Thanks! 00:49:23 er, wait 00:49:25 duncanm: hey back :-) 00:49:28 let me look this up 00:50:16 -!- X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:51:04 in gnu emacs 22, looks like you would defadvice scheme-indent-function to execute your cloned and tweaked version of it 00:51:32 i strongly recommend against defadvice-ing "get" for this purpose :) 00:52:20 anyone know Clojure? I like its multimethod system(it automatically fins by itself the function to dispatch to). what would I need to do to have something like: (defmulti volume (dispatch-on (type-of :x))) then i define a function: (define :x (volume args)...) 00:52:43 silkarn: why do you keep on bringing up clojure in #scheme? 00:52:47 isn't there #clojure? 00:52:57 because i like it but now im programming in scheme 00:53:08 im in clojure too 00:53:15 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:53:32 scheme doesn't have types like they do in the JVM, so you'll have to make do with cond 00:53:43 silkarn: i looked at clojure recently. i won't bother with it again until i have a real need to use it 00:54:04 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-200-56.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 00:54:25 (define (volume x) (cond ((foo? x) (foo-volume x)) (else (error "dunno what to do"))))) 00:54:26 silkarn: in scheme, you can use one of the clos-like systems, or you can define your own language in plt that changes how application is done 00:54:33 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 00:55:24 bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 00:55:55 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:56:13 duncanm: yes that is what i do now 00:56:14 -!- bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:56:47 neilv: yes im thinking about adding my own multimethod system 00:56:56 bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 00:57:12 Bah clojure 00:57:15 silkam: it's easy and a fun exercise. what's hard is making it fast 00:57:21 The JVM should be killed. 00:58:34 silkarn: Anyways it should be trivial with some sort of map structure and macros 00:58:54 but now it is bad because i need to specify the type itself when i pass it, i should pass a soemthing and it should dispatch by doing the chekcing automatically 00:59:21 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Operation timed out] 00:59:50 silkarn: before you code anything, read up on clos, if you have not already 00:59:51 silkarn: dude, scheme has no dispatch, if you want it, you have to either find an existing impl, or build it yourself 00:59:53 then write a function that checks and dispatches 01:00:03 clos has already invented 10x what any of us will 01:00:17 yes but im interested partly to learn 01:00:58 there is no type? function at all? 01:01:12 ... 01:01:27 silkarn: you can't be adding things to scheme before you understand the basics of scheme 01:01:57 if i have a (define-struct sphere (radius)), i cant get at runtime what something X is, if it is a sphere-struct or not? 01:02:04 rudybot: eval (number? 1) 01:02:06 Arelius: your sandbox is ready 01:02:06 Arelius: ; Value: #t 01:02:15 it is also helpful to figure out why scheme does things the way it does, before you go changing things. and you can't figure out why it does things the way it does until you know what it does 01:02:23 silkarn: define-struct is PLT Scheme, it's not plain ol' Scheme 01:02:50 silkarn: define-struct properly builds a type predicate (i.e. foo?) for you 01:03:02 -!- rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:03:04 s/properly/probably/ 01:03:06 rudybot: (define-record-type sphere (make-sphere x y) sphere? (x) (y)) (sphere? (make-sphere 1 1)) 01:03:07 Arelius: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 01:03:16 neilv: nicely put. 01:03:24 rudybot: eval (define-record-type sphere (make-sphere x y) sphere? (x) (y)) (sphere? (make-sphere 1 1)) 01:03:25 Arelius: error: reference to undefined identifier: define-record-type 01:03:30 bah 01:03:33 -!- bitweiler [n=bitweile@adsl-69-154-33-68.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:03:55 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:05:27 silkarn: anyways I suspect you define-struct probally makes a sphere? predicate 01:05:35 i'm so hungry 01:05:40 bye 01:05:43 bye 01:05:47 have fun eating 01:05:49 -!- maxote [n=el_ermit@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:06:56 maxote [n=maxote@84.79.67.254] has joined #scheme 01:08:21 rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #scheme 01:08:21 -!- BW^- [i=Miranda@151.80.9.94] has left #scheme 01:10:46 silkarn pasted "struct-dispatch-weirdness" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75888 01:10:57 why is ^^ ? 01:12:24 ah 01:12:28 car it 01:12:43 -!- bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:12:49 you want: (apply scheme-volume args) 01:12:57 you're missing the "apply" 01:13:22 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 01:14:54 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 01:15:03 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:15:40 a yes apply is much better way of doing it 01:16:01 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 01:17:36 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-200-56.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:17:53 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-200-56.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 01:17:56 Are there any approaches to UI Widget libraries that are particularly well suited to scheme? or is it mostly just OO? 01:18:39 mike [n=m@dslb-088-064-128-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 01:19:09 -!- mike is now known as Guest55673 01:19:40 Arelius: I have been wondering much about GUI and non-oop approaches 01:19:44 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 01:19:57 peter_12: any luck? 01:19:57 I have to look into "functional reactive programming" 01:20:01 no luck yet 01:20:17 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:20:35 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:20:40 better than "dysfunctional reactionary programming" 01:20:47 OOP seems like such a natural fit because a UI is stateful 01:21:21 but I try to keep the object interface to the UI as thin as possible and use functional programming to calculate whatever needs to be calculated 01:21:59 sure 01:22:27 raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:23:35 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has quit [No route to host] 01:23:39 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-226-170.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:23:49 peter12: look into xwindows i think it is written in haskell 01:23:59 im wondering about the same thing because i did an mp3player in clojure 01:24:05 i also am doing a game in scheme 01:24:21 and with GUIs the state/nostate issue becomes very apparent 01:24:57 hrm, I suspect haskell would be an interesting case, containing no mutable state and all. 01:29:34 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFC621.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:30:59 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 01:32:13 so a plt module is evaluated in an environment with no access to the top level? 01:32:56 you mean the importing module? 01:33:27 Arelius: just when the contents of a module are evaluated. It seems to be evaluated in a clean environment 01:33:37 That's the case 01:34:04 so if you say, redefine car, it can't screw up the modules use of car. 01:34:17 right 01:34:37 or put another way, the top level is a module of its own? 01:34:43 yeah 01:34:58 Arelius: thanks 01:35:04 np 01:35:45 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-196-136.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:39:20 -!- Guest55673 [n=m@dslb-088-064-128-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:41:03 sorry, computer reboot. did I miss something? 01:42:53 nothing of importance I suspect. 01:46:01 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEB30.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:49:43 -!- puchacz_ [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:51:47 -!- stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:56:12 how can I decide what should be in scheme when i start it? 01:56:30 like i have some fucntions liek range, pow etc that id liek to always eb available 01:58:59 silkarn: I suspect whatever scheme you use has an rc file 01:59:08 like chicken will read from .csirc 01:59:25 I think there might be a .mzschemerc 02:08:50 k thanx 02:10:37 cant find oneĻ 02:10:41 do i make one? 02:12:03 how do you do 02:12:08 * silkarn cheers 02:12:09 ? 02:20:09 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:22:02 -!- silkarn [n=hask@h84n3c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has left #scheme 02:27:56 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:28:04 -!- orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFC621.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:30:11 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-196-136.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:30:39 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:30:47 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:31:23 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-196-136.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:31:28 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 02:33:31 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 02:33:50 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 02:33:50 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:34:09 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 02:39:11 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-200-56.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:40:39 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 02:42:39 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:43:40 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:46:44 -!- neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:50:32 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76.236.77.235] has joined #scheme 02:50:52 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:53:31 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:56:11 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:56:19 -!- Modius [n=Modius@69.150.59.146] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:59:22 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-222-63.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:10:05 What's the best way to make scheme files work across implementations 03:10:14 with differen't module syntaxes and the like? 03:10:39 should I generally just wrap them in a file that does the implementation specific stuff? 03:11:49 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0BF3.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:13:44 -!- pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:17:38 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 03:18:34 is it just me. or do others here also find they have problem remembering which arguments are which to a function (and thus feel motivated to make all function call be like (map func:blah list:blah2) 03:18:43 not with map, of course, but with other functions 03:20:27 lowlycoder: I find that function order is one of the bigger problems... but not just with lisp 03:22:08 this isn't a static/dynamic typing rant; but I just realized 03:22:30 that maybe I didn't realize this problem in C++ land is that if I screwed function order up, i'd often get a type error 03:22:49 whereas in lisp, it's at run time, that I go "WTF" and only later realize that I had mixed up order of args to a function 03:23:34 Smalltalk? 03:23:45 Objective C. 03:24:01 what about smalltalk / objective C? 03:24:07 (clearly I haven't used either) 03:24:47 lowlycoder: I found it to be worse in C because generally I work in scheme sending things directly to the repl. but in C I had to do a new recompile session. 03:24:59 Functions in Objective C are called doThis:WithThat:AndThis: 03:25:14 lowlycoder: though I used Visual studio for a while with C and intellisense solved the problem mostly. 03:25:25 Another interesting aspect of argument order occurs when functions are curried. It becomes important that the arguments are in order of increasing expected rate of change. (Not just for the sake of convenience, but often performance as well.) 03:25:42 Maybe your procedures should take fewer arguments. 03:25:56 Or keyword arguments. 03:26:44 i guess a better question to ask is: has anyone here tried writing code with using keyword arguments for most function calls? how did it work out for you, besides being slightly more verbose 03:27:38 I find keyword arguments are best for rarely used arguments. 03:28:17 sometimes I swear assembly language is like a cult 03:28:28 This is abuse -- Arguments are down the hall 03:28:34 Well, you will take a bit of a speed hit. Also keyword arguments seem to be more common in CL. 03:29:14 refusenik_ [n=refuseni@pool-71-246-117-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:29:30 -!- refusenik_ [n=refuseni@pool-71-246-117-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info/"] 03:29:59 *offby1* takes a hit of speed 03:30:13 Isawthebestmindsofmygenerationdestroyedbymadnessstarvinghystericalnaked 03:30:28 There isn't even a channel on Freenode about it. 03:30:43 very secretive, those assembly hackers. 03:31:04 "excuse me sir, but what is the binary representation of the x86 mov instruction?" 03:31:09 and that was the last anyone ever saw of her 03:31:26 isn't that what the intel x86 reference is for? 03:32:28 offby1: I know that song 03:32:47 synx: I might be able to answer questions about x86 assembly 03:33:31 You'd think so, lowlycoder... 03:35:10 Elly: Well I've asked my question. Basically I'm screwing with an existing binary. replacing mov with nop for fun and profit :3 03:35:10 but (poke memory 0x90909090) just causes a segfault, so not sure how many bytes to nop. 03:35:10 Er, #x90909090 sorry 03:35:12 getting scheme confused with hexedit there 03:35:28 er 03:35:31 what kind of mov is it? 03:35:36 x86 instructions are variable-length 03:36:03 Oh, right. 03:36:33 source is eax, dest is a 32 bit address. 03:36:48 namely a hit point counter 03:36:58 a half-decent debugger can tell you which bytes constitute the instruction 03:37:16 gdb is all I got 03:37:57 ah 03:37:58 x/i shows the instruction, x/a shows a 4 byte word. namuch else I can see in terms of introspection. 03:37:59 gdb can still do it 03:38:08 do: disassemble
03:38:15 that will make it spit out a few instructions 03:38:26 Ah, the fun old days of disabling copy protection. 03:38:26 the addresses will tell you how big each instruction is 03:41:07 disassemble
maybe. 03:41:07 Just one address by itself doesn't work. 03:41:22 it works if you're inside a function and have debugging symbols 03:41:23 oh did I mention this is a stripped binary 03:41:27 aha 03:41:32 then you get to do a bit of guesswork 03:41:38 try: disassemble $eip $eip+20 03:41:44 (the longest x86 instructions are 15 bytes) 03:42:34 then you'll know how long the instruction is and you can nop it out :P 03:46:04 hm, eip maybe... 03:47:25 awesome! that 20 byte offset worked like a charm. works to put the literal memory address in too. 03:51:04 oh, of course 03:51:09 $eip is just an expression in gdb 03:51:23 anything that evaluates to an integer can be used there 03:51:44 dang... 6 bytes long exactly. I was writing 8. 03:52:13 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:54:24 kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 03:54:29 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-127.naist.jp] has quit [] 03:55:32 heh :P 04:00:08 benny [n=benny@i577A0793.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 04:03:05 -!- mejjaa [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009020911]"] 04:15:20 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 04:19:33 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-196-136.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:37:44 now all I got to do is figure how the binary executable gets mapped into memory 04:41:09 objdump can answer that for you 04:41:12 even for a stripped binary 04:41:32 objdump -x test 04:41:51 actully, unless it's packed in a relatively hardcore manner, objdump -d will tell you the real load addresses 04:43:08 True enough that. 04:44:39 I'm guessing when gdb says @plt+X that's X bytes into the section objdump specifies is 'plt' 04:51:26 daveamayombo [n=dlipsky@c-98-212-195-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:54:07 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 04:54:27 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 05:06:08 so does MzScheme have some concept of a variable alias to make its import system work? 05:06:10 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5452.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit ["aunt jemima is the devil!"] 05:06:32 *offby1* scratches head 05:07:22 I dunno wot he meant neither 05:08:19 *Daemmerung* gives the usual blank look 05:10:23 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176202128.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:10:28 offby1 Daemmerung: http://pastebin.ca/1343476 05:10:46 it looks like my-count is an alias for count 05:11:07 they aren't normal separate variables because if they were, my-count would be just 0 at the end 05:15:46 i bet eli would know 05:16:08 Your import statement renames m's exported `count' to `my-count', yes. 05:16:31 You don't otherwise define my-count. What were you expecting? 05:16:45 Daemmerung: so that is some sort of "alias" concept, wouldn't you agree? 05:17:00 I'm thinking in terms of how that might be implemented 05:17:23 import isn't just some macro, unless there is some feature available to use in that macro to make the aliasing work 05:17:30 It's a compiler. Most names are ultimately ephemeral. 05:17:58 ahh, fair enough 05:18:08 Your module m defines some storage. Your code referencing that module agrees to refer to that storage by another name. 05:18:14 gyahaha it worked 05:18:26 Thanks so much Elly 05:19:00 no problem 05:26:58 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176220198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:31:43 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has left #scheme 05:38:00 -!- daveamayombo [n=dlipsky@c-98-212-195-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:45:37 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:45:49 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 05:46:35 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 05:46:42 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 05:54:24 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:56:50 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-120-245.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 05:56:50 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 05:57:09 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-120-245.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 05:57:11 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 05:57:39 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-120-245.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:57:56 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-120-245.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 05:58:21 kilimanj4ro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 05:59:25 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:59:39 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-120-245.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 05:59:39 -!- kilimanj4ro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 05:59:56 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-120-245.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 06:00:04 kilimanj4ro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 06:00:34 -!- kilimanj4ro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 06:00:34 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-120-245.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:00:52 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-120-245.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 06:00:56 kilimanj4ro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 06:12:45 xwl [n=user@123.112.119.209] has joined #scheme 06:15:43 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:22:30 bitweiler [n=bitweile@ppp-70-242-146-79.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:25:07 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-92-148-37.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:26:39 hey Modius_ 06:34:45 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-196-136.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:42:49 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-92-148-37.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:43:01 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 06:43:24 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-92-148-37.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:46:40 Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 06:48:01 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-222-63.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:56:16 -!- kilimanj4ro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:08:53 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:08:57 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 07:16:30 meanburrito920 [n=John@adsl-76-222-233-116.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 07:17:57 -!- meanburrito920 [n=John@adsl-76-222-233-116.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:22:16 Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 07:30:01 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@76.236.77.235] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:30:51 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 07:35:32 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 07:40:14 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-92-148-37.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:46:02 -!- Nate75Sanders [n=Nate75Sa@cpe-76-88-156-88.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 07:49:42 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:50:06 -!- xwl [n=user@123.112.119.209] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:55:40 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:16:38 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #scheme 08:19:54 -!- raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:23:47 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:26:04 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 08:26:34 Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 08:46:32 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-101-123.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 08:55:12 stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 09:01:05 Hurrah! readscheme.org has returned. 09:02:06 *foof* was just using it :) 09:04:41 *foof* has for the second time gotten the feeling "wow, I think I actually have a working syntactic closures implementation, and it's not as complicated as I thought" 09:04:50 Madars [n=null@unaffiliated/madars] has joined #scheme 09:04:53 ... the first time, of course, I was wrong :) 09:05:11 I wonder how many times I'll have to repeat this before I get it right 09:05:12 ? 09:10:39 -!- rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:13:30 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 09:13:48 rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #scheme 09:13:58 Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 09:16:41 barney [n=bernhard@p549A2FB3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 09:17:34 foof: hrm, what are you doing syntatic closures in? 09:17:44 elisp 09:18:18 Not! (yet :) 09:19:29 really? you are trying to do syntatic closures in elisp!?! 09:19:29 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-237-079.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 09:19:50 -!- mike is now known as Guest44009 09:19:54 -!- kryptiskt [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:19:57 it's vaguely tempting to implement it for scheme-complete.el 09:20:13 ... for analyzing scheme macros only, not for elisp macros 09:20:31 foof: that'd be nice 09:21:03 -!- Madars- [n=null@unaffiliated/madars] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:23:28 kryptiskt [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has joined #scheme 09:35:26 -!- Guest44009 [n=m@dslb-088-066-237-079.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:38:01 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@adsl-70-250-178-94.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 09:41:52 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:49:31 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 09:55:39 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own called rev. Now I am making a simple function to remove the last element of a list. When I type: (rev (cdr (rev (list 1 2 3)))), it returns (1, 2), which is exactly what I want. When I use define like this: (define (rl lis) (rev (cdr (rev (lis))))) and then try typing: (rl (list 1 2 3)), I get an error saying "Given (1 2 3) No arguments". 17:05:33 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:05:43 Inhuman, "(1, 2)" 17:08:24 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 17:08:28 my brain is melting. 17:09:37 Inhuman: (define (rl lis) (rev (cdr (rev lis)))) 17:09:46 you're putting to much parens 17:11:21 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:19:36 bitweiler [n=bitweile@ppp-70-243-143-99.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 17:19:47 stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 17:21:28 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 17:22:46 -!- Madars [n=null@unaffiliated/madars] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:25:57 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-129-228.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:32:42 rudybot: eval (define (rl lis) (rev (cdr (rev (lis))))) 17:32:43 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 17:32:59 rudybot: eval (rl (list 1 2 3)) 17:33:00 *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: rev in module: 'program 17:33:16 rudybot: eval (define rev reverse) 17:33:17 rudybot: eval (rl (list 1 2 3)) 17:33:18 *offby1: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: (1 2 3) (no arguments) 17:33:38 rudybot: eval (define (rl lis) (rev (cdr (rev lis)))) 17:33:40 rudybot: eval (rl (list 1 2 3)) 17:33:41 *offby1: ; Value: (1 2) 17:33:51 Inhuman: did you follow that? 17:34:01 you had (rev (lis)), but should have had (rev lis). 17:34:05 as Fulax said. 17:34:42 someone in #lisp was faster than I was 17:36:24 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 17:37:33 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:39:24 chaoslynx [n=cpehle@p57A77BF7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:45:43 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.181.234] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:46:41 nan8 [n=user@dslb-088-066-248-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 17:52:09 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-10-31.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 17:53:34 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 17:53:35 -!- offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:54:38 wingo--tp [n=wingo@7.Red-81-39-161.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:54:39 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-170-43-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:54:47 -!- wingo---tp [n=wingo@192.Red-83-44-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:54:51 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-170-43-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:58:48 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:00:48 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has quit [] 18:01:02 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 18:06:05 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:07:15 phil_ps [n=Owner@cpe-74-79-188-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:08:07 -!- phil_ps [n=Owner@cpe-74-79-188-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 18:13:47 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-170-43-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:13:47 lolcow [n=lolcow@dsl-244-202-192.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:17:54 -!- lolcow is now known as leppie 18:22:05 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 18:36:20 leo2007 [n=leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 18:38:28 rotty, ;;; Local Variables: ;;; eval: (put 'frobblethorpe 'scheme-indent-function 42) ;;; End: 18:39:27 Riastradh: i disabled that capability in my own setup long ago, for obvious reasons 18:39:45 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["l8r"] 18:40:10 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 18:41:00 peter_12: re your "my-count is an alias for count" -- of course it is. 18:41:41 neilv: IIRC, emacs should warn you against possibly bad buffer-local evaluations and variable settings. 18:42:06 rotty, Edwin has a slightly nicer way to do this -- the indentation methods can be stored as buffer-local variables themselves, rather than as global symbol properties. So one can write ;;; Edwin Variables: ;;; lisp-indent/frobblethorpe: 42 ;;; End: 18:44:19 synx, there are zillions of formats for `the MOV instruction', and also zillions of no-op formats, including formats that have no effect on x86 but do have effects on x86-64. 18:45:26 neilv, by default GNU Emacs prompts whether you want to evaluate those. 18:46:10 Thankfully this game is firmly stuck in 32 bit x86. 18:51:35 Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #scheme 18:54:29 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 18:58:06 eli: does MzScheme have some form like (alias count my-count) so that the import form can be a macro? 18:58:51 peter_12: I don't understand this question. 18:58:59 cmihai [n=user@unaffiliated/cmihai] has joined #scheme 18:59:03 How is "aliasing" related to macros? 18:59:27 if import was a macro, then it would need to expand to some form that is capable of making an alias 19:00:16 -!- Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has left #scheme 19:01:14 -!- acarrico [n=acarrico@pppoe-68-142-37-157.gmavt.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:02:37 peter_12: I'm sorry, I still don't know what you're talking about. 19:03:19 If you're talking about importing a binding using `require', then there is an easy way to get a different name, and it looks like you already know about it. 19:04:06 eli: I know how to use require. I'm just curious how it is implemented in terms of more fundamental forms. 19:04:14 or if require is a fundamental form 19:04:43 Sifting through a bunch of implementations like "Armpit scheme" or Stalin, Chicken, Bigloo and so on... I kept wondering. I there some kind of comparison of platform support, standards compliance, or whatever around? 19:05:05 peter_12: What's your goal? 19:05:14 cmihai: people have done that from time to time. probably nothing up-to-date 19:05:22 Last time I've schemed I was using stalin, chicken and scheme48, but it's been a while, and I don't see they've been updated much. 19:05:22 eli: to understand how require works. Don't worry about it. I'll read the source 19:06:02 cmihai: i just use plt now, and keep in mind that i have the option of using gambit, sisc, or chicken, if necessary for unusual requirements 19:06:43 neilv: just trying to get the pulse of the up do date standards compliant (R5RS or now R6RS I take it) scheme implementation. See what my options are. 19:07:05 That, and get a list of candidates for an AIX port. 19:07:20 pronounced "aches" 19:07:21 peter_12: `require' is (since v4) a macro that expands to the primitive `#%require' form. 19:07:30 All Scheme implementations I was familiar with have no such support to speak of. 19:08:01 peter_12: Specifically, the new `require' will macro-expand (in a way) its inputs -- so you can write new `require' sub forms. (And the same holds for `provide'). 19:08:26 eli thanks 19:08:28 cmihai: if you mention what your needs are, people here might narrow your search space for you 19:08:33 Sure, the Java based ones would work, but where's the fun in that :-). 19:08:46 peter_12: But the actual facility that deals with linking in the bindings using whatever names is part of the code, and it is done by the primitive `#%require'. Is suspect that if you want to learn how *that's* done, you'll need to go down to the C code. 19:08:46 when in doubt, just use plt 19:08:54 i think that guile works on aix 19:08:57 neilv: a more up to date / popular / standards compliant implementation really. 19:09:04 but it's r5, not r6. 19:09:04 Guile you say? 19:09:17 *eli* throws up 19:09:18 OK, will try. Anything r6? 19:09:19 i would be surprised if plt didn't work on aix tho 19:09:34 Here's a piece of Guile "poetry": 19:09:43 cmihai: i think plt has r6rs support, but the default plt language is moving away from standards (though you can mix&match modules written in different languages, including r6rs) 19:09:50 (define (blah x y) (x y (display 1) (display 2))) 19:10:01 (blah if #t) --> prints only 1. 19:10:37 scheme@(guile-user)> (define (blah x y) (x y (display 1) (display 2))) 19:10:38 scheme@(guile-user)> (blah if #t) 19:10:38 12ERROR: In procedure vm-run: 19:10:38 ERROR: VM: Wrong type to apply: # [IP offset: 17] 19:10:43 Fair enough. I'll try PLT first. I was using the thing on Windows, didn't realize it had UNIX support :-). 19:11:07 eli: first class special forms are not a feature to you? 19:11:19 http://download.plt-scheme.org/ 19:11:19 Oh, nevermind, it's mzscheme. 19:11:34 it's not just mzscheme 19:11:50 try it, you'll like it 19:11:55 Isn't the PLT part just the GUI stuff around it? 19:12:08 wingo--tp: If you're saying that this was fixed recently, then that's good -- but Guile lost a lot of respect by doing that at some point (not that I had much respect for it anyway). 19:12:08 *offby1* rolls eyes 19:12:34 Yeah, I was using it on Windows. I remember it's very well maintained at least. 19:12:36 eli: lots of things have happened in the past ;) 19:12:44 peter_12: No, first class special forms done *that* way are very broken, for very known reasons. 19:12:53 it's hard to explain. mzscheme is the main scheme implementation. "plt scheme" is a family of tools including other languages, and they work together 19:13:00 wingo--tp: The version that I have is not *that* old. 19:13:06 rudybot: eval (define (blah x y) (x y (display 1) (display 2))) 19:13:07 eli: what other way is there? 19:13:09 rudybot: eval (blah if #t) 19:13:10 *offby1: error: eval:1:6: if: bad syntax in: if 19:13:11 the interpreter still works that way 19:13:27 it's a pretty silly example though 19:13:37 they've confused things even more in plt 4.x, where "#lang mzscheme" gives you a mostly backwards-compatible scheme language, but you really want to use "#lang scheme/base" or "#lang scheme" 19:13:47 -!- nan8 [n=user@dslb-088-066-248-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:13:57 all part of their evil plan, I'm sure. 19:14:00 or you can do "#lang r6rs" i believe 19:14:04 And where does "DrScheme" and MrEd come in? 19:14:06 rudybot: init r6rs 19:14:06 *offby1: error: r6rs: must contain a `library' form (for a library) or start with `import' (for a top-level program) in: (#%module-begin) 19:14:08 wingo--tp: I have this in guile version 1.8.5, with the copyright saying "2008", so it's definitely not old. 19:14:10 bummer 19:14:12 rudybot: init r5rs 19:14:13 *offby1: your r5rs sandbox is ready 19:14:25 rudybot: (let ((c (cons 1 2))) (set-car! c 'fred) c) 19:14:25 *offby1: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 19:14:29 rudybot: eval (let ((c (cons 1 2))) (set-car! c 'fred) c) 19:14:29 *offby1: ; Value: {fred . 2} 19:14:38 rudybot: (- 2009 2008) 19:14:39 ayrnieu: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 19:14:48 anyway, I'm pretty sure that's a whole 1 old. 19:14:55 I really ought to make him "eval" if the line is nothing but a single parenthesized sexp 19:15:08 cmihai: drscheme is the programming environment. mred used to be mzscheme with events and gui added, but i think the distinction is blurred. don't worry about it 19:15:15 ayrnieu: No, taking an average, it would be about 8 month old. 19:15:26 OK, from a more practical perspective then. I'm gonna try and build the thing on AIX, no requirement for GUI or silly experimental languages. 19:15:41 Do I just compile the mz* src or the whole plt* code? 19:15:50 cmihai: as I always say: PLT scheme has a great advantage, namely: eli is often here :) 19:15:52 cmihai: just build the whole thing 19:16:14 http://download.plt-scheme.org/ and select "Source code for Unix (X11)" 19:16:33 cmihai, I'd tend to say: gauche (for scripting), chicken (for C), sisc (for Java), etc. 19:16:48 cmihai: Yes, if you want a working environment, get the whole thing. 19:17:05 The whole thing it is then. Thanks. 19:17:43 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:19:13 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 19:21:28 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:25:33 wingo--tp: I've download and compiled 1.8.6, which is the most recent version I see there. 19:25:42 It's still broken in exactly the same way. 19:26:16 peter_12: Sorry, I lost your question in the noise -- what other way is there for what? First-class special forms? 19:26:25 eli: yes 19:26:54 The way to get them to be first class, is to have them as such -- at the syntactic level. Not at run-time. 19:26:56 eli: i work on the vm branch of master. 19:27:09 would you like for me to concede your point again? 19:27:16 s/master/git/ 19:27:20 eli: would they look different at the syntactic level? 19:27:28 wingo--tp: was it fixed *that* recently? 19:27:34 *wingo--tp* doesn't get the inter-implementation hostility 19:27:54 wingo--tp: I don't get it either 19:28:11 wingo--tp: What inter-implementation? I'm unhappy with that evaluation as a schemer, unrelated to being an implementor of any kind. 19:28:34 Nothing I said about the Guile defectiveness is related to PLT in any way. 19:28:43 http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=guile.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/vm 19:28:51 peter_12: No, they don't look different at the syntactic level. 19:28:57 is that behavior actually specified in r5rs? 19:29:04 eli: then what is the difference? 19:29:45 peter_12: You cannot try to tread `if' as something that has any meaning at run-time -- it does not exist at runtime. 19:30:18 (And BTW, the "well-known brokenness" of trying to do so is documented in more than a few papers, all of them are unrelated to PLT aswell.) 19:30:22 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:30:41 wingo--tp: I now see in the log that you said "the interpreter still works that way". 19:31:09 wingo--tp: I really hope, for guile's sake, that by that you don't mean that "the interpreter" and "the compiler" have different semantics. 19:31:49 oh how it warms my heart, this concern for the sake of guile! 19:32:15 wingo--tp: No sarcasm needed. 19:32:20 heh 19:32:29 no, they have slightly different semantics. 19:32:36 wingo--tp: It's a simple question. 19:32:38 but we're going in the right direction. 19:32:56 eli, you didn't ask a question. You said "I really hope, for guile's sake", and then puffed up your feathers when wingo responded in kind. 19:33:23 ayrnieu: it's human language -- not all questions end with a question mark. I'm not that stupid. 19:33:40 wingo--tp: by "we" do you mean that you're a Guile developer? 19:34:01 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:34:21 eli: yep. 19:34:22 Why Can't We All Just Get Along 19:34:54 wingo--tp: So, is there general agreement there (among the developers) that having such a difference between interpreted code and compiled code is a very bad thing? 19:35:25 s/very //, but yes. 19:35:59 the compiler stack is a new thing. if it works well, perhaps the interpreter would go away -- but bootstrapping is a problem in that case. 19:36:04 we'll see. 19:36:08 OK, that's good [again, for Guile's sake, whatever you take that to mean]. 19:36:27 ("Sir, we have a concern." "Main screen turn on?" "CS students may try to apply IF at the repl." "But their programs will error on this. So what?" "Programs? They're *CS students*! For god's sake, man!") 19:37:04 wingo--tp: I'm glad to see that guile uses git. 19:37:45 ,guile 19:38:02 offby1: oh dude, me too. 19:38:10 we just switched like 6 months ago 19:38:12 ayrnieu: Does that have a meaning? (Note the question mark.) 19:38:12 it's been great 19:38:24 wingo--tp: from what -- CVS? Can't remember. 19:38:35 offby1: yeah. terrible, eh ;) 19:38:39 wow :) 19:38:49 That leaves ... emacs as the sole user of CVS on the planet. 19:38:53 *offby1* frets 19:39:03 eli - that isn't a question. 19:39:23 Not tru 19:39:39 BSD's use CVS. 19:39:42 i'm sure lots of people use cvs. i do 19:39:50 It's not that bad, really :-) 19:40:03 *wingo--tp* builds emacs from the git mirror 19:40:31 git, smit :-). 19:40:55 "git" is actually british slang 19:41:37 Bring out the git! 19:41:52 neilv: slang for what? 19:41:54 ayrnieu: If you're trying to participate in some form of discussion, and spit a completely undecipherable pile of words in the middle of it, the least you can do is give some meaning to it. But if you want to be that guy who sits on the bench and shouts comments that he thinks are very funny but no one else does, then so be it. 19:41:59 "idiot" 19:42:28 git is kindof stupid, but charming too :) 19:43:28 *wingo--tp* heads out -- ciao 19:44:05 eli, it's English. You're not that stupid. 19:45:20 ayrnieu: calm down 19:46:41 wait, ayrnieu can't be that guy -- _I'm_ that guy. 19:47:16 cmihai, not all -- DragonFlyBSD, I hear, recently switched to Git. 19:47:54 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 19:51:34 offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 19:51:36 *zbigniew* makes a note to take another look at git sometime 19:52:43 It's pretty similar to Mercurial. 19:52:52 -!- kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:53:03 That is what I use now. 19:53:05 zbigniew - nowadays I'll use git on the fly, even for trivial edits. Why not? git init && find . | xargs git add && git commit -m init && for x in *.foo; do mangle mangle mangle mangle; done 19:53:10 daveamayombo [n=dlipsky@c-98-212-195-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:53:15 -!- wingo--tp [n=wingo@7.Red-81-39-161.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:53:26 -!- daveamayombo [n=dlipsky@c-98-212-195-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:53:44 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:53:47 zbigniew: wouldn't see a reason to switch then. But hey, if you do, it's pretty easy :-). 19:54:08 Riastradh: FreeBSD has switched to Subversion. 19:54:10 ayrnieu: that is how I use hg. 19:54:52 Heh, guess that leaves just NetBSD :-) 19:54:58 No. 19:55:00 OpenBSD is mucking about with their OpenCVS. 19:55:09 There're more BSDs than you think :) 19:55:20 Oh, don't tell me MirBSD is relevant :P 19:55:31 The others are just.. mm.. distros :-). 19:57:14 zbigniew: I doubt it's enough better to warrant switching. 19:58:01 anyone know offhand how to view scribble-based documentation for a planet package through a planet development link? 19:58:04 I should say: "enough betterer". 19:58:18 *offby1* stares blankly at neilv 19:58:37 i see it's packaged it up into the planet .plt file, but i'd rather not have to install the .plt file and confuse my development link 19:58:50 offby1: i'm using plt-specific terminology 19:59:17 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 19:59:19 "PLaneT" is the plt network package management system 19:59:49 "development link" is a developer's tool for pretending that a source tree is a particular version of a particular package from PLaneT 20:00:05 neilv: After you run setup-plt, it should make the main start page have a link to your package's documentation. (The main page = the page that you get when you run `plt-help'.) 20:00:18 neilv: Oh, I know the terminology. I just fear you won't get a good answer 20:01:31 oh, duh. i have a "--no-docs" argument in my makefile 20:01:36 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 20:02:30 (i have a big makefiles setup for all my scheme software, that let me do lots of portability and documentation-generation stuff. it is evolving painfully as plt changes) 20:03:36 You probably had a big change with v4; and scribble is still new enough to change... 20:04:17 i still have more change to go. my documentation system uses texinfo as a backend 20:05:06 ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:05:22 neilv: It would be nice (and probably not *that* difficult) to have a texinfo backend for scribble... 20:05:23 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:05:28 -!- ayrnieu_ is now known as ayrnieu 20:06:15 eli: but texinfo is mostly my front-end too. i embed a mostly-texinfo language in my source files as comments 20:06:32 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:06:51 i'm thinking of translating that automatically to scribble, but that doesn't let me specify scribble-like contracts 20:07:24 [So, if you had a texinfo backend, you could view everying in info, no?] 20:07:27 and i hate to write a texinfo parser when i know plt will eventually give us a way to embed documentation inline 20:07:42 Ah, you just want in-line documentation? 20:08:00 eli: correct. i just want in-line documentation 20:08:29 Do you want it to be the same javadoc-style thing, or something more along the lines of literate programming? 20:08:37 more javadoc-style 20:09:17 So, what I can say is that we (very) recently added a literate programming thing. 20:09:38 It was mostly done to see that we can do so, a kind of an experiment. 20:10:06 Anyway, one thing that is needed by that thing is to be able to use a single source as both the documentation source and the actual code source. 20:10:16 moving will be a big investment, so i won't want to move to anything that i don't think i'll stay with for years 20:10:40 (Oh yes, nothing that I say should make you do anything now -- it's way too new to tell.) 20:11:11 Anyway, what I wanted to say is that it will probably make it easier to do similar things elsewhere too, like supporting a kind of a javadoc functionality. 20:11:21 but, for example, scribble documentation should be generated from actual contracts in the source code by default 20:12:05 eli: an example of what i currently use: http://www.neilvandyke.org/csv-scm/csv.scm 20:12:11 I was just about to say that there is something that is more similar to javadoc, where you specify the contracts and the documentation in the same place. 20:12:19 that suits all my needs right now. it just doesn't work with scribble 20:12:40 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-231-164.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 20:12:56 neilv: Found it -- http://docs.plt-scheme.org/scribble/srcdoc.html 20:13:14 -!- mike is now known as Guest62518 20:13:54 ah. that's not in 4.1.4 20:14:02 will it be in 4.1.5? 20:14:52 I think that it was in 4.1.4. Let me check. 20:15:27 it's not in the 4.1.4 scribble manual, that i can see 20:15:34 Looks like it is in 4.1.4, but the documentation is newer. 20:15:58 hm. i'll take a look 20:16:06 I'm think that it doesn't cover everything you do in your notation. 20:16:27 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 20:16:45 IIRC, it only allows descriptions of bindings, so you'd probably want to add some hook where you can plug in arbitrary documentation text. 20:17:26 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 20:18:34 Couldn't get mzscheme to compile either, relies on too many gcc-isms it seems. I guess I'll try SICS. 20:19:48 cmihai: Which platform are you on? 20:20:15 cmihai: sisc, you mean? 20:20:25 Yeah :-). 20:20:27 eli: AIX 20:20:28 cmihai: sisc is no fun to port 20:21:16 cmihai: And there's no GCC for AIX? 20:21:28 http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-gnu.html 20:21:38 cmihai - Chicken should port pretty easily. 20:21:55 "Highly portable and known to run on many platforms, including x86, x86-64, IA-64, PowerPC, SPARC and UltraSPARC, Alpha, MIPS, PA-RISC, ARM and S/390" 20:22:04 Will try. 20:22:18 eli: not an option, it's IBM's XL C compiler or nothing. 20:22:46 cmihai: is this in a finance environment? 20:22:55 *neilv* tries to think of who uses aix anymore 20:23:09 gcc-isms? I have no problem compiling mzscheme with the Microsoft compilers. 20:23:29 ibm has lots of ibm-isms in aix 20:23:50 AIX is SUSv3 thus POSIX compliant though. 20:23:54 I suspect that the problem might me more with ibm-isms than gcc-isms,,, 20:24:10 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-242.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:24:24 Another source of problems might be general gnu-isms from configure, gmake and others. 20:24:58 neilv: oddly enough, lots of people, espeically on IBM's 5Ghz 64-way machines. 20:25:12 configure used to support lots of unix variants. that was its whole purpose 20:25:12 Probably an automake thing I guess. 20:25:53 neilv: Yeah, but there were a couple of gmake things at some point, IIRC. Might be more spread. 20:25:57 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:26:05 cmihai: Can you be more specific about the error(s) you've ran into? 20:26:13 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 20:27:34 eli: i will have to take a pass on this provide/doc stuff for now. it doesn't do enough of what i need yet 20:27:44 rettichschnidi [n=reto@6-7.107-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #scheme 20:27:44 "./foreign.c", line 2404.17: 1506-280 (W) Function argument assignment between types "void(*)()" and "char*" is not allowed 20:28:13 Mostly that issue, I'll have to attempt a recompile in a clean source again to get a proper log, I've mucked about for a bit in the src. 20:28:46 -!- rettichschnidi [n=reto@6-7.107-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has left #scheme 20:30:37 cmihai: Is it all coming from the foreign code? 20:31:00 Nope. 20:31:01 neilv: It might be helpful to have some summary of what would make you happy, so the srcdoc thing can be extended. 20:31:35 neilv: I think that you're the most obvious person I know who does that in all sources, so you probably have a good idea of what's needed... 20:32:37 There're other issues to, like sending xlc -Wall or some other gcc flags even though it doesn't detect gcc, but I've got around those. 20:32:39 cmihai: That particular example mighte be considered a bug (Matthew will know more about C peculiarities), but the foreign directory is likely to have more of them. 20:33:06 What's in there? :-) 20:33:38 cmihai: The source of libffi, and our interface to it. So it's a very likely place to do all kinds of weird casting. 20:33:43 Seems to be gcc related. 20:34:39 cmihai: In any case, I think that AIX was among the machine that PLT people used frequently at some point, so if you send a quick summary of the kinds of problems you ran into to the mailing list (or as a bug), you might get a quick answer for how to fix them. 20:34:59 Cool, thanks. 20:35:15 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-142-107.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:35:55 eli: ok. i have some documentation to do immediately, but i will be thinking about what suggestions to make 20:36:52 neilv: that will be useful, thanks. 20:37:07 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:37:18 *ASau* sighs. 20:37:40 Bundled packages are the most frequent source of problems. 20:40:27 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit ["Smoove out."] 20:42:20 bbl 20:42:20 -!- neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:43:47 http://paste.lisp.org/display/75919#1 mzscheme AIX make 20:44:35 Doesn't work if I compile in 32 bit mode either though. It's all libffi issues it seems. 20:46:23 cmihai: what is libffi version? 20:46:24 cmihai: If it's all libffi (which is not surprising -- it is a very gcc-centric project), then you can just remove the src/foreign directory completely and try again. 20:48:14 I.. can? 20:48:31 I mean, isn't it needed or something? :-) 20:49:47 cmihai: configure will see that it's missing and not include it in the build 20:49:51 cmihai: The C part should be fine. 20:50:07 Great. 20:50:10 cmihai: You'll have some problems trying to compile Scheme files that use it, but it should be mostly workable. 20:51:16 cmihai: There should be something like --disable-foreign or some other configure-ism, if that makes you feel better... 20:51:46 Gah, silly me, I've missed it :-). 20:57:34 wow, I still have an old .guilerc lying around. 20:57:45 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-142-107.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:04:13 Heh 21:04:25 After fixing a small bug, it compiles ;D 21:06:08 rudybot: eval (= 245850922/78256779 (angle -1)) 21:06:09 leppie: your sandbox is ready 21:06:09 leppie: ; Value: #f 21:06:43 rudybot: eval (= (exact->inexact 245850922/78256779) (angle -1)) 21:06:43 leppie: ; Value: #t 21:07:18 rudybot: eval (/ 22 7.) 21:07:19 Fulax: your r5rs sandbox is ready 21:07:19 Fulax: ; Value: 3.142857142857143 21:07:21 There's a C++ style commen in eval.c, looks like someone commented out a line 21:07:26 6432 // scheme_dup_symbol_check(&r, "internal definition", var, "binding", first); 21:08:39 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 21:09:16 rudybot: eval (= 884279719003555/281474976710656 (angle -1)) 21:09:16 leppie: ; Value: #t 21:10:10 *leppie* reads the docs for = again 21:10:29 = is scary. 21:11:56 docs says: When in doubt, consult a numerical analyst. 21:12:01 :| 21:15:14 not much docs else than that... 21:16:48 haha 21:17:05 *leppie* have many doubts 21:20:07 hey, it's _your_ Scheme. You can make = do anything you want! I suggest you make it order out for Chinese food. 21:21:52 I could, but it makes testing corner cases hard as I have nothing to compare it with 21:22:26 it always surprised me that there was no R5RS conformance test suite. 21:22:33 Wonder if there's one for R6RS. 21:22:40 yes, a good one 21:22:50 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:23:17 for the runtime part at least, does not check syntax, except for what it uses it self 21:23:35 theres like 9000 tests in there 21:23:42 any guidance from it? 21:23:45 the PLT people wrote it 21:24:02 well i only fail 7 or 8 tests currently 21:24:36 not bad. 21:24:37 but I keep on finding odd corner cases/weird results :) 21:25:06 rudybot: eval (eqv? 884279719003555/281474976710656 (angle -1)) 21:25:07 Riastradh: your scheme sandbox is ready 21:25:07 Riastradh: ; Value: #f 21:25:26 8 of 8871 tests failed. 21:26:06 morphir_ [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 21:26:44 neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 21:27:00 cmihai: What small bug? 21:34:35 -!- Guest62518 [n=m@dslb-088-066-231-164.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:40:38 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:47:17 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:48:08 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 21:48:18 eli: the C++ style comment I assume, maybe that C compiler does not like it 21:50:44 leppie: Do you know if that's cmihai's case? And if so, do you know where are there C++ comments in C code? 21:51:18 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:51:21 eli: eval.c 21:51:44 line 6432 maybe? 21:51:51 090221-22:07:26 < cmihai> 6432 // scheme_dup_symbol_check(&r, "internal definition", var, "binding", first); 21:54:40 sladegen, leppie: thanks -- I missed that. Fixed now. 21:56:48 -!- Qaexl [n=Akashakr@c-24-30-97-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 22:05:07 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5452.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #scheme 22:11:22 AnarchyIsOrder [n=AnarchyI@pool-162-84-174-216.ny5030.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:14:02 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Success] 22:14:29 Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-77.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:15:52 Qaexl [n=Akashakr@c-24-30-97-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:17:03 kazzmir_ [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:18:06 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:26:57 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 22:27:29 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:27:50 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:30:38 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 22:31:34 -!- kazzmir [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:32:27 -!- Qaexl [n=Akashakr@c-24-30-97-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 22:39:37 neilv: ping 22:39:56 hi 22:40:25 i'm converting all my scheme libraries to be in plt source rather than generic scheme from which plt source is generated 22:40:51 that way i don't have to maintain my old scheme management setup 22:43:31 -!- Modius__ is now known as Modius 22:45:36 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:47:22 Qaexl [n=Akashakr@c-24-30-97-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:48:12 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:53:48 ok, i can no longer generate portable versions of my libraries, nor build for plt 3xx :) 22:54:00 i will add back in the portable part 22:55:35 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:57:54 *Fare* reminds the channel about the Boston Lisp Meeting this monday: "Gerbils: Distributed programming with PLT Scheme" by vyzo 22:59:03 gah. i will be out of town til 7pm 22:59:17 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-120-245.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:59:49 you can have food with us afterwards 23:01:21 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-128-205.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 23:01:40 good idea. maybe i can catch the tail end of the talk too, if the T is with me 23:02:36 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-10-31.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:03:19 *offby1* counters with a talk at the New York Lispers: "Hamsters: Centralized Kludging With Domestic Rodents" 23:06:46 -!- AnarchyIsOrder [n=AnarchyI@pool-162-84-174-216.ny5030.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:07:54 "may the T be with you" 23:08:13 and also with you 23:12:07 -!- X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f0a:13ea:0:0:0:2] has left #scheme 23:13:03 -!- chupish [i=c03a96bb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-09ae78d46936cfe7] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 23:15:24 -!- morphir_ [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [] 23:17:32 wingo--tp [n=wingo@213.Red-88-0-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:17:39 -!- wingo--tp is now known as wingo-tp 23:18:28 *Fare* recently wrote this, that might interest some people here: http://fare.livejournal.com/140462.html 23:19:07 i saw that on planet lisp 23:19:34 Fare: dude i've been thinking of storytelling recently too 23:19:51 "stories we tell ourselves" 23:20:17 seems to be really important for success, somehow -- hence the centrality of the bards 23:20:28 *wingo-tp* coming back from the bar, a little disconnected :) 23:21:30 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:21:43 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 23:21:47 *Fare* remembers to add a bard to the party and have him drink ale, so he may sing and inspire the rest of the team and double damages during encounters with monsters. 23:22:15 hehe 23:22:24 (did anyone here play Bard's Tale?) 23:22:29 fare: i have made a todo item to read it. coding right now 23:22:31 *wingo-tp* did not 23:24:24 *wingo-tp* enjoys conspicuous capitalization of "His" 23:26:03 well, you might not enjoy how I'm deflating Him to animal proportions in the end. 23:27:56 *wingo-tp* enjoys it 23:28:25 http://wingolog.org/archives/2008/12/10/i-lucifer 23:31:00 exexex [n=chatzill@85.101.17.44] has joined #scheme 23:34:12 Fare: "those stories that survive, survive; those that don't, don't." -- some (meta-) correspondence to be had there 23:34:28 :) 23:38:49 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:39:22 yeah damn it fare i wanted to hack, but this article is great :0 23:39:30 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 23:39:52 It was so hard to write. I'm glad some people like it. 23:45:08 yeah i do like it. 23:45:28 but the evening is catching up with me -- will finish it tomorrow. good night! 23:46:29 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:48:37 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 23:57:55 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59:18 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme