00:02:18 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:02:30 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:03:09 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:07:38 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:07:44 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:07:49 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:07:53 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:09:38 -!- peddie [n=peddie@cpe-076-182-103-193.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:10:52 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 00:12:40 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 00:19:12 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:21:01 incubot: Sing Mary had a little Lambda, please! 00:21:03 Mary Chung's? 00:21:17 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@71-10-164-243.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:21:52 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:23:50 arcfide [n=arcfide@99.137.200.58] has joined #scheme 00:23:57 Hey everyone. 00:24:41 What's up? 00:25:07 Well, I'm having some issues compiling schemantic-web. :-) Riastradh, you think you can assist a stupid person? 00:25:11 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 00:26:09 Riastradh: Right now, Chez's module system is complaining that it can't find a definition for COMPILE-SPARQL-PATTERN. I was wondering if there was something about the organization of the code that would effect this? 00:26:20 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 00:26:34 Usually, though, this happens with syntaxes, not with procedures, so i was wondering if I missed something here. 00:34:12 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #scheme 00:40:19 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:40:32 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:52:58 dsmith [i=htrkc0n6@cpe-71-74-230-225.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:55:07 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:59:26 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 01:02:38 troter [n=troter@nurikabe.timedia.co.jp] has joined #scheme 01:03:46 peddie [n=peddie@cpe-076-182-103-193.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:04:52 meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-222-110-26.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:05:55 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFF02E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:09:45 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:10:30 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:10:36 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 01:11:44 aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has joined #scheme 01:13:43 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has quit [Client Quit] 01:21:19 -!- tr3 [n=tr3@host60-170-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:22:15 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFC63D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 01:27:55 -!- peddie [n=peddie@cpe-076-182-103-193.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:31:08 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has left #scheme 01:36:32 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 01:38:34 -!- orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFF02E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:39:55 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:43:37 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 01:52:11 -!- kthakur [n=kthakur@c-24-16-36-36.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:53:54 Riastradh: ACK (pre-coffee) 01:55:34 foof, protocol error! The response is SYN/ACK, but I'm RSTing it for now. 01:56:04 -!- ricky [n=ricky@fedora/ricky] has left #scheme 02:00:49 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:05:37 andrei [n=user@c-98-223-64-197.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:09:16 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:09:20 Daemmeru` [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 02:25:22 Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 02:27:08 -!- Daemmeru` is now known as Daemmerung 02:28:07 -!- spooneybarger [n=spooneyb@cpe-74-73-111-254.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:29:35 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 02:31:41 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 02:33:24 foof: SYN 02:33:36 Riastradh: SYN/ACK 02:33:44 foof: ACK 02:33:45 ... writing a response now first 02:33:48 OK. 02:33:56 I'll wait for that, then. 02:37:04 sent 02:37:12 Received. 02:37:12 Did SCSH ever run on Windows? 02:37:17 I don't know. 02:37:50 Where possible I want to make sure this has sane semantics on Windows and Plan 9. 02:40:19 foof: Pretty sure not. 02:40:35 I want to avoid fork because it is very hairy, and mostly not necessary. 02:41:41 I want to avoid formalizing the syntax and semantics of a high-level shell because it is very complicated, and requires many more decisions to be made than are necessary for the sake of spawning subprocesses. 02:41:48 Really? To me the single most desirable of all the system calls listed is fork, because it allows for a poor-man's multi-processing. 02:42:24 Desirable, it may be; powerful, it is; but neither makes it not hairy. 02:42:39 99% of the time I want a simple shell syntax. 0.5% of the time I want fork. 0.5% of the time I want one of the other syscalls. 02:42:42 It's hard to get right. 02:43:27 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:43:50 It's not clear what resources are shared between the parent and child processes after forking, for example. 02:44:35 Isn't that explicitly specified by POSIX? All fd's. 02:44:44 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 02:44:51 What Scheme objects are implemented using file descriptors? 02:45:13 Can I use string ports reliably across forking, for example? 02:45:55 These are not questions that are interesting to me, for 99.5% of the cases. An interface to POSIX spawn covers those cases, without many decisions or tricky details to be specified. 02:45:56 It depends on what you mean by reliably. String ports are not OS objects, and have no backing fd, so they aren't "shared". 02:46:21 So you'll have to say that in the specification. 02:46:39 ... but both processes will have access to effectively a copy of the same string port, and can continue using their copy. 02:47:30 This bothers me because otherwise string ports are completely unrelated to the operation of running programs as subprocesses. Who knows what other details will have to be specified? 02:47:57 So yes, you do need to be clear that there are ports with and without backing fd's, that string ports definitely don't have fd's and file ports definitely do, and expose some way to convert between port<->fd. 02:48:10 is (match ...) part of any srfi? 02:48:21 Arelius: no 02:48:38 (match [(my-ass your-face) #t]) 02:48:42 *offby1* slaps thigh 02:48:50 hrm 02:49:10 foof: know the syntax for it in chicken by chance? 02:49:43 rudybot: doc match 02:49:48 The match syntax? 02:49:51 *offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/match.html#(form._((lib._scheme%2Fmatch..ss)._match)) 02:50:02 in case you're using PLT ... 02:50:09 String ports are only the tip of the iceberg, too. Scheme-level thread schedulers make forking especially tricky, and I really don't want that to interfere with the basic subprocess spawning operation. 02:51:50 offby1: He just said "chicken" :) 02:51:56 well, yeah 02:52:03 but he asked about a srfi first, so ... 02:52:38 Arelius: The original uses this syntax: http://practical-scheme.net/gauche/man/gauche-refe_163.html 02:53:05 K, thanks 02:53:28 benny` [n=benny@i577A0C77.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 02:53:33 Riastradh: Which is why it should be made a SRFI. People will point out most of the tricky bits on the discussion list, and the others will be caught later. 02:54:08 If we don't experiment a little more in SRFIs, the RnRS editors will just throw completely untested garbage directly into the standard like they did last time :/ 02:54:19 No. People will make broken implementations and then document why forking doesn't work with such and such an implementation-specific feature, or just not document it at all. 02:54:52 There is much less of an excuse for making a broken interface to POSIX spawn, or some simulacrum thereof. 02:55:25 ... except it already doesn't allow mixing Scheme code into a process pipeline. 02:56:49 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:56:52 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:58:06 And why not take a stab at specifying it properly? What you need is two procedures: fork and fork-single-thread. The latter kills or deschedules all other threads in the child process only. 02:58:19 In your proposal, I don't think you said in what process or thread the Scheme procedures would be called. Personally I'd be much more comfortable if it were not in a separate process. 02:59:04 The latter is the only operation that is remotely sensible -- but I'm not going to pretend to know what other resources might be accidentally shared, to disastrous effects. 02:59:49 As you said yourself, 99.5% of the time, forking is not needed. I don't think it's worth the trouble. 03:00:15 Yes, but 99.9% of the time spawn isn't needed either. 03:00:57 99.5% of the time spawn suffices, and to be honest, more often do I want spawn than do I want an elaborate shell notation. 03:01:30 It would furthermore require much less effort and be much easier to extend later. 03:01:40 We're talking explicit vs. implicit uses here. Spawn is built on fork. I want to use fork explicitly more often than I want to use spawn explicitly. 03:02:32 And what resources get shared is well documented in POSIX. 03:03:06 I know that what *POSIX* resources get shared is documented in POSIX, but that doesn't help to explain what *Scheme* resources get shared. 03:03:10 So, Match seems to be a special form here, is there likely to be a simular pattern matcher I can say use apply on? 03:03:39 Arelius: no 03:03:53 Ok, thansk 03:03:55 thanks 03:05:30 Riastradh: Understand, I'm scratching an itch here. I *need* the shell syntax, and will write a SRFI for it regardless. 03:07:58 It's not at all easy to get the shell right and is worth making a SRFI of it, to get feedback and hopefully wider usage. 03:08:47 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0401.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:08:54 ... and it's certainly better to limit the specification to a single SRFI than to have an entire Scheme implementation designed with the goal of being a shell. 03:10:17 There are many more choices in the design of a shell notation than there are in POSIX spawn. An interface to POSIX spawn requires fewer decisions and is more useful; it would permit experimentation with the design of a shell notation, which is more important than solidifying one now. 03:10:29 BTW, in your proposed spawn interface, you need some way for the child to close fd's or you can't implement pipes. 03:10:55 All file descriptors except those explicitly named ought to be closed. 03:11:09 OK 03:11:10 (This is what QNX spawn does.) 03:11:32 (This is a truly unfortunate omission in posix_spawn.) 03:11:45 Uh, yeah, that's useless :/ 03:13:01 I considered adding another option (POSIX-SPAWN-OPTION:CLOSE-ALL) which would have this effect, and which might require forking and execing, rather than posix_spawning, under the hood, in order to iterate over all open file descriptors in the subprocess. 03:13:35 I decided against that because the default should be to close all file descriptors except those explicitly named, and if there is to be any option at all it should have the converse semantics, for which no good name immediately presented itself. 03:14:37 Making design decisions is not a bad thing! The only people who've been writing SRFIs lately are those not afraid to decide anything, which results in terrible SRFIs. 03:17:38 It's not only design decisions that directly affect the appearance of the API. Introducing fork has many far-reaching consequences that I don't trust a SRFI discussion to cover, and that are unnecessary for most useful cases of spawning subprocesses. 03:19:02 Again, direct posix_spawn access isn't ncessary for most useful cases of spawning subprocesses. 03:19:44 Fork has more uses than just spawning subprocesses, so there's some incentive to provide it. 03:19:47 Neither fork nor POSIX spawn is strictly necessary over the other. POSIX spawn is sufficient, however, and has clearer semantics. 03:19:58 Sorry: sufficient for most cases. 03:20:41 I am aware that fork has more uses, and I don't want those uses to detract from the goal of spawning subprocesses. 03:22:26 OK, let's assume we don't want to get into the details of fork(2) for the time being, or even allow mixing Scheme code into a pipeline. 03:22:44 Good. I'm happier to avoid those details. 03:22:46 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:24:05 Why provide posix_spawn(2) access over a shell notation? The latter is a more Schemely interface that can provide the same functionality as spawn. 03:24:25 If you really liked the spawn API, you could define it in terms of the shell notation. 03:25:10 ... or build a new shell notation which translates down to the original one. That's why the interface is built on sexps, not macros. 03:25:15 I don't know what `Schemely' means, but posix_spawn is simpler than a shell notation, and what I wrote is clearly open to later extension. 03:27:41 "Simpler" is in the eye of the beholder. Spawn takes a whole mess of complex options. 03:27:49 Your shell notation is not open to later extension, because you have already defined the meaning of every possible list in a process pipeline. 03:28:01 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 03:28:42 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #scheme 03:29:07 There are only so many options you can want, and we can reserve some (possibly infinite) set of symbols. 03:29:28 -!- benny` is now known as benny 03:30:18 And there's already some room for extension: (> file ...) can have a different meaning if file is not a string, e.g. (> (2 1) ...) can dup fd 2 to 1 in the subprocess. 03:31:40 There is one data structure in my suggested POSIX spawn interface that is more `complex' than a string or a list of strings. It is `complex' because it is open to later extension, and is specified only as far as it needs to be in order to be useful to programs. 03:32:11 There are cracks into which extension can seep. Can I define my own extensions? 03:32:36 Here is an example of an extension that I can define with my POSIX spawn interface, approximately: 03:32:59 (define (posix-spawn-option:ignore-stderr) (posix-spawn-option:open 2 "/dev/null")) 03:33:11 ... 03:34:02 That's no more an extension than any combinator utils you could write to generate my shell notation. 03:34:33 (define (ignore-stderr proc) `(> (2 "/dev/null") ,proc)) 03:35:22 That's a little different. That extension has second-class status relative to the (> ( ) ...) notation. 03:35:22 ... though I still need to look at windows and plan9 to see how they handle fd's and whether I want to provide that level of interface. 03:35:37 Huh?! How is it second class? 03:35:45 oh 03:35:50 nm 03:35:55 I have to unquote it and call a separate procedure. No longer is it a part of the language proper. 03:36:27 I'd rather see a shell notation built atop a process pipeline combinator library, incidentally, than the other way around. 03:37:16 Yes, but if you're afraid of getting details wrong it's easier to just provide the high-level API :P 03:39:22 Also, with scheme-complete.el and extensions for completion of specific shell commands, my notation can reasonably be used as an interactive login shell. 03:40:33 I'm interested more in writing robust programs in Scheme than in replacing my login shell, to be honest. 03:41:37 I'm not actually likely to replace my login shell yet, but I do want to replace my shell scripts, for which my shell notation is highly useful, and the spawn interface would only be useful for implementing a shell notation. 03:42:38 Deformati [n=joe@71.238.45.45] has joined #scheme 03:43:50 POSIX spawn is useful for more than implementing a shell notation. 03:44:18 -!- Deformative [n=joe@71.238.45.45] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:44:57 All it does is launch a process with some options, which is the simplest case of the shell notation. 03:45:16 I would never use it directly if I had a shell notation. 03:45:41 That is true only if every option has corresponding notation in the shell notation. 03:45:58 Yes. Which is why the shell notation needs to be thought-out carefully. 03:48:32 annodomini_ [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:50:25 light [n=ghost@unaffiliated/light] has joined #scheme 03:50:52 I don't want to discourage you from thinking out carefully a shell notation, but I believe that an interface to POSIX spawn will be much easier to propose successfully. 03:53:17 where is the documentation for this "POSIX spawn" of which you speak? 03:53:31 offby1: man 2 posix_spawn 03:53:42 (Apologies for the delays in my replies -- I am connected by a route that has four-second latency and fifty per cent packet loss.) 03:54:17 foof: I ain't got no such man page :-| 03:54:19 Does anyone know if windows uses file descriptors? Does it have an stderr? 03:54:55 It has a notion of stderr. 03:56:28 np, bbl 03:57:33 offby1: 03:57:52 yay 03:58:33 Pretend that *every* file descriptor not mentioned among the file actions is closed in the subprocess, not just those that have FD_CLOEXEC set. 04:02:56 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1+svn-11365: SIGTERM received; exit"] 04:05:03 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:10:19 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:14:51 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 04:16:21 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:24:56 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 04:37:59 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:38:11 -!- Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 04:38:19 Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 04:53:27 yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has joined #scheme 04:53:33 -!- yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:54:33 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 04:55:07 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:55:16 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 05:00:21 *mejja* reads: http://www.complang.org/thurston/thurston_CIAA_06_sing_regex.pdf 05:01:56 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:05:15 *mejja* pasted wrong link :( http://www.complang.org/ragel/ragel-guide-6.3.pdf 05:07:04 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:09:20 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:10:12 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176217158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:14:30 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 05:18:00 so I'm still thinking about creating a text user interface toolkit scriptable with Scheme 05:18:07 I've been thinking about this for a while 05:18:11 peter_12: what's a "a text user interface toolkit"? 05:18:35 like a GUI toolkit "open a new window" "focus that window" etc 05:18:45 it would be a high level wrapper on ncurses 05:18:47 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has quit [] 05:19:07 Aren't there some TUIs that are higher level than (n)curses? 05:19:08 you could use it to write pong video game or an emacs or a vi or whatever 05:19:21 eli: I don't know if there are 05:19:57 I think that I looked at the ncurses interface a few times (very few), and my impression was that it shouldn't be difficult to talk to it. 05:20:15 eli: no it shouldn't 05:20:37 I don't know if it is better to embed a scheme interpreter into a c program or use a ffi to talk with ncurses 05:20:44 my gut tells me embed 05:20:53 You can also try to catch duncanm, who wrote some low-level termcap stuff in Scheme, which (at least in theory) should be easily portable. 05:21:01 But ncurses is probably an easier route. 05:21:21 ncurses seems to be the standard. I think vi and emacs both use it 05:21:35 I'd say that there's a 98% probability that using the ffi from Scheme is going to be easier. 05:22:10 If you embed mzscheme in a C program then you force people to use it -- which is fine if your goal is only to have a scriptable-ncurses kind of thing. 05:22:27 But if you use the ffi, then you get a library which should generally be much more useful. 05:22:55 eli: one thing I've been thinking about is suppose someone wrote an emacs with PLT Scheme using the FFI. 05:23:21 That depends on what you mean by "wrote an emacs". 05:23:24 how would a distribution be ...distributed 05:23:39 eli: suppose I write a ncurses wrapper using the ffi 05:23:45 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-127-13.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:23:46 If you're talking about actually replacing Emacs, then it's pretty much a hopeless cause. 05:24:04 eli: it is just an example 05:24:09 I don't understand the question about distribution, BTW. 05:24:31 suppose I write a ncurses wrapper using the ffi 05:24:41 ok. 05:24:47 *eli* supposes. 05:24:51 then write a scheme program that uses that library to build some TUI application (say an emacs) 05:25:08 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-134-43.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 05:25:10 So the question is how you distribute that? 05:25:30 and the users can add their own extensions scripts that load when the program (say emacs) starts up 05:25:41 ok. 05:25:42 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 05:25:42 how do I distribute "the program"? 05:25:55 it is an odd collection of little bits 05:26:19 it isn't like "here is a C program you compile and will have a scheme interpreter embedded" 05:26:30 There are several things here. 05:26:41 First of all, there's the library that I supposed you wrote. 05:26:53 The easiest way to distribute that is to use planet. 05:26:57 slang provides a higher-level interface than ncurses 05:27:22 -!- tjafk [n=timj@e176199225.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:30 This means that people can write applications with your library by using something like (require (planet peter12/ncurses)) 05:27:48 ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 05:27:51 http://synthcode.com/scheme/scheme-term-0.3.tar.bz2 implements a vt100 library from scratch in pure scheme 05:28:06 peter_12: ncurses is pretty much trivial to use from the PLT FFI. 05:28:21 Then there's the issue of distributing such an application -- for that there are tools that package up a "distribution". 05:28:42 In this context, such a distribution is basically a tgz file with everything that is needed. 05:28:48 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 05:29:03 Finally, there's the part of loading user code that you talked about -- and that depends on the actual implementation. 05:29:31 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit ["brb"] 05:29:47 foof thanks for the link 05:30:07 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 05:30:54 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 05:31:08 eli: I suppose I don't know how all the pieces would fit together in the PLT world. I understand what you are saying but I suppose I have to try them all out. 05:32:02 peter_12: The best thing is probably to start simple -- just write the library you want to write. 05:32:06 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 05:32:32 That is, start with *writing a library* -- that's the part that you need to write no matter what. 05:32:39 Deal with the rest when you get there. 05:34:09 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 05:35:21 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 05:36:57 eli: one thing I've noticed when I download mzscheme. I choose my OS (which is OS X) and then I get a directory that contains all of the bin, lib, etc directories. What is the recommended way to do a system-wide install of mzscheme. Just put the whole directory in /opt ? 05:37:24 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 05:37:30 or split it up and put the bin parts in /usr/local/bin and the lib parts in /usr/local/lib ? 05:37:42 or should I be downloading the source and compiling myself for this sort of thing? 05:37:46 foof [n=user@isa7-dhcp-116-120.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 05:38:34 peter_12: On OSX, the preferred way for "installing it is to drop it in /Applications" -- I think. (I'm not using OSX.) 05:39:06 foof: Did you write that thing? 05:39:17 What thing? 05:39:24 That "vt100 library" thing. 05:39:31 Yeah, eons ago. 05:39:44 Keep meaning to update it. 05:39:55 Yeah, it looks a little, um, old. 05:40:00 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:40:12 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 05:40:14 foof: Can you clarify what is it that it does? 05:40:31 "vt100 library" sounds much less useful than what it looks like it's doing. 05:40:44 eli: it would be very comfy for someone coming from other languages to just do the usual "./configure; make; sudo make install" 05:41:15 ultimately that would be my preference as I've installed many other languages and bits of software that way 05:41:20 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 05:41:23 peter_12: Are you talking about getting the installer from the website, or getting the sources and compiling it yourself? 05:42:21 foof: `sys-tcsetattr'?? Not really a pure scheme library... 05:42:24 what do you mean by "getting the installer". All I see for mzscheme is http://download.plt-scheme.org/mzscheme/ 05:42:30 command.scm provides mnemonic access to vt100 commands (e.g. cursor-forward, erase-in-line, scroll-down, etc.) 05:42:46 (no, it's Gauche-specific) 05:43:06 command.scm, however, is highly portable 05:43:07 peter_12: Ah -- you should use the PLT download if you want to do any development work. 05:43:17 why is that? 05:43:34 foof: Isn't stty kind of important to get the terminal into a sane mode for doing any kind of input? 05:43:47 It also provides convenience routines for generating ANSI color sequences - I actually still use that from time to time. 05:44:28 eli: the vt100 commands will still work fine 05:44:29 peter_12: The "mzscheme" distribution is intended as a minimal kind of distribution that is mainly useful for people who want to run the web-server (and similar stuff) on a server. It's not a good idea to do any kind of development with it. 05:44:53 eli: ok 05:44:55 eli: why different source distributions for windows, linux, mac? 05:45:13 foof: Is `sys-tcsetattr' doing much more than calling an stty process for doing the sttyy? 05:45:14 stty.scm provides a nice symbolic interface to termios - this is Gauche-specific, and would require an FFI for porting 05:45:25 ??? 05:45:47 Is it just running stty, or is it doing something that mimics it? 05:45:49 eli: man 3 tcsetattr 05:45:52 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1+svn-11365: SIGTERM received; exit"] 05:46:01 It's part of the termios API. 05:46:24 foof: OK, that clarifies it. 05:46:25 The file bin/stty is actually a replacement for stty(1) written entirely in Gauche. 05:46:56 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:47:05 foof: Just trying to be clear on what is it that its doing in case I need something like that -- because it looks like it can be pretty useful in some cases. 05:47:20 peter_12: Are you talking about the *source* distributions that you see there? 05:47:25 read-key.scm, which you need to write full ncurses-style apps instead of just manipulating the screen, does need to use stty.scm 05:47:47 foof: Yeah, that's pretty obvious. 05:47:55 eli: yes there are three source distributions. I've never seen a language with multiple source distributions depending on platform 05:48:27 foof: But ncurses has the whole windowing thing on top of the terminal, which can make it more useful, probably. 05:48:47 screen.scm then uses all of those to attempt to provide an ncurses-style library, but I never used it much and it's not very complete 05:48:49 foof: (and probably more portable for cases where you have something other than a vt100) 05:49:18 eli: I'm just thinking "where are the normal UNIX install instructions?" :-) Like guile for example http://tinyurl.com/cthpz7 05:49:38 ... and line.scm is a trimmed-down library for single-line only operations, like readline and showing progress meters 05:50:53 foof: Looks cute, but a long way from complete -- in the sense of being able to extend it etc. 05:51:18 foof: (I'm impressed, because I played with the idea of doing something similar several times, but didn't get to it.) 05:51:28 peter_12: The different source distributions are a little better in getting you just the stuff that you need for your platform. 05:51:44 screen.scm really needs to be rewritten. What would you want to extend the others? vt100 is fixed. 05:51:49 -!- annodomini_ [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 05:52:15 peter_12: They're useful in very particular cases -- but you can also just get the full sources (from svn.plt-scheme.org), and build it as usual. 05:52:29 eli: thanks 05:52:59 peter_12: On OSX, you should know that there are two modes for building it -- there's the usual way, and there's an "XonX" mode which builds it as a unix application (so it uses X to run, and is more unix-like). 05:53:14 ok 05:53:22 foof: I was talking about "line.scm" -- looks like all the keys are hard-wired in the code. 05:53:43 oh, yeah 05:54:24 It would be nice to generalize something like that -- but then looking at the best example I have for that (zsh), there's an awful-lot in just designing a good interface. 05:55:04 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:55:07 -!- elf [i=elf@antenora.aculei.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:55:46 It's around the middle of my stack in priority right now, but definitely on the horizon (I'll need it when I get back to my editor, which will support vt100 and native GUIs). 05:57:10 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:57:16 That would be interesting to see. 05:57:31 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 05:57:37 I'm curious: Why vt100, and not whatever termcap or terminfo knows about? 05:58:11 Riastradh: Because it was faster to implement, and I don't feel the need to support anything other than vt100. 05:58:33 ... I do want to extend the colors for 256 color terminals, though. 05:58:51 I don't actually know whether the terminals that I use are vt100-compatible, to be honest. I pay too little attention, and rely too much on termcap/terminfo. 05:58:59 (Shiro actually made the same comment about termcap.) 06:00:22 BTW, the nice thing about termcap is that just a brief look is enough to convince you to stop spending effort on this... 06:00:46 (Actually, I don't even remember which of termcap and terminfo is the older one and which is the newer one.) 06:01:27 *eli* used terminfo for the same reason he used "a book reads" earlier... 06:02:28 s/terminfo/termcap/, of course. 06:03:31 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:04:06 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #scheme 06:04:24 vt100 is simpler conceptually - the terminal itself recognizes certain character sequences as commands 06:04:45 termcap/terminfo I'd have to read up on more first 06:05:27 Mostly, termcap and terminfo are databases of those character sequences or patterns. 06:06:32 ...organized in a way that reaches a local maximum of complexity. 06:07:40 Well, since I've never seen a modern terminal w/o vt100 support, and the one file that does involve those commands is 100% portable Scheme, I'm not entirely sure termcap is worth supporting. 06:13:45 karlw [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 06:21:15 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:31:45 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-222-110-26.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["has been attacked by a grue"] 06:36:47 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:39:07 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 06:48:48 Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.103.172] has joined #scheme 06:53:49 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 06:58:28 -!- cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 07:02:43 -!- error_developer_ 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connection] 08:12:43 sikilpaak [n=cduarte@189.202.45.120.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #scheme 08:28:00 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:33:00 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:44:02 jgracin [n=jgracin@78-1-165-48.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 08:44:52 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:47:29 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B056CF5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:49:49 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:51:41 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-247-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 08:52:08 -!- mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-247-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:52:42 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-247-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 08:53:09 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-77-31.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 08:53:11 -!- mike is now known as Guest32793 08:55:59 elf [i=elf@antenora.aculei.net] has joined #scheme 08:59:04 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:00:21 -!- Guest32793 [n=m@dslb-088-066-247-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:00:49 wartalker [n=wartalke@210.51.173.167] has joined #scheme 09:02:45 -!- sikilpaak [n=cduarte@189.202.45.120.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:03:24 i am using mit-scheme in emacs, i want to know how to enter debug mode in emacs 09:04:02 http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/chicken-users/2009-02/msg00050.html <- for those not on the chicken list 09:04:28 It works best with Chicken, but is portable and interesting nonetheless. 09:07:44 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176217158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:15:16 -!- kryptiskt [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:24:41 -!- rdd 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[n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 19:26:59 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-200-58.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:27:01 wingo-tp [n=wingo@142.Red-81-39-163.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:31:01 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:36:48 bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 19:37:55 langmartin: I was wrong about memcachedb; it keeps items in key-sorted order 19:38:06 -!- pitui [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:40:31 foof, I think that reflects more on how Chicken's compiler can be improved than on anything else. 19:46:03 jao [n=user@25.Red-81-32-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:47:26 ziggurat [n=ziggurat@pool-173-57-57-115.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:47:58 -!- ziggurat [n=ziggurat@pool-173-57-57-115.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:52:02 it seems that Scheme's (load) form is very loosely specified 19:52:13 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-165-178.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 19:52:19 that is, how it finds the file based on the string argument 19:52:53 There is no associated "path" concept for finding files in Scheme is there? 19:53:27 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@71-10-164-243.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:53:35 That's why we use Common Lisp. :D 19:53:40 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-165-178.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:54:07 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:55:36 *eli* slaps ASau with CLtL 19:55:37 ASau: because the spec is more specific in general or because it specifies a load path? 19:55:37 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05511B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:56:20 peter_12: because it is focused on solving practical problems more than on theoretical purity. 19:56:50 ..and on the way overspecified paths to the point where just reading it can make your eyes bleed. 19:57:08 peter_12: Some schemers advise not to use `load' but stick to implementation-specific module systems or r6rs 19:57:19 pitui [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:57:21 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:57:27 Mr-Cat: which form in r6rs? 19:57:44 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:58:03 -!- jah [n=jah@242.138.72-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:58:09 peter_12: r6rs introduces a library system, so you don't need load anymore 19:58:22 ahh 19:59:27 peter_12: If you're using PLT, you should just use (require "some-file"), where the string has a relative path for the file you want to require, or (require some/library) for code that is distributed with PLT. `load' is a bad idea. 20:00:34 Yeah, tracking loads becomes difficult if the app consists of many files 20:01:10 It's worse than just "difficult". 20:02:56 saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:03:39 worse? 20:04:41 Yes. "Difficult" doesn't do justice to the kind of mess you can find yourself in. 20:05:20 Ah. I thought you meant, that load has some other pitfalls 20:05:31 s/has/had 20:05:59 English grammar does not like /me 20:06:12 ahh 20:06:14 It does. 20:06:25 so, pairs, atoms, etc : is there a lisp name for these? 20:07:38 my lisp name is roger 20:08:55 JoelMcCracken: lists, symbols, etc? 20:09:17 right, but do they have a generic name? 20:09:31 Hmmm... stuff? 20:09:35 haha 20:09:37 things? 20:10:10 well, symbols, numbers, and strings are all atoms 20:10:28 JoelMcCracken: S-Expressions. 20:10:29 hmm 20:10:45 okay 20:10:53 Also sometimes "datums". 20:10:53 fair enough 20:11:13 thanks 20:13:13 AllNight^ [n=EnglishG@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:15:37 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A3049.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:16:28 incubot: sex press ions? 20:16:30 "No sodium ions were harmed in the making of this salt" 20:16:56 lul 20:17:33 Does `incubot' have something to do with `incubus'? 20:30:08 bashyal [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has joined #scheme 20:33:14 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@201.17.146.221] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:34:58 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:35:44 peter_12_ [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 20:36:14 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:39:53 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:42:43 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:43:12 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:55:29 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 20:59:23 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:59:23 foof, ping? 20:59:29 Also, rotty: ping? 20:59:52 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:01:20 gnomon, you have it all wrong -- use the three-way handshake to establish a stream connection, not merely ICMP sonar. Sonar is highly ineffective, as British and French nuclear submarines have demonstrated so poignantly of late. 21:02:21 Heh. Also, ouch. 21:03:49 There is a conversation in #awk pertinent to foof's discussion on 2009-02-10 about greedy vs. non-greedy quantifiers and backtracking implementations. Sadly, the tunes logbot seems to have missed it, and I can't raise rotty's log dingus; so I was seeking foof's permission to excerpt his dialog with eli wholesale, and rotty's attention to inform him of this apparent fault. 21:04:06 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:04:46 works for me. 21:05:47 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 21:07:07 Oho! 21:07:33 I thought that I did not know of this log cache, but my browser history calls me a liar: I've been there at least once before to visit a log from 2008. 21:07:36 *gnomon* warms up wget 21:08:02 schemers. 21:08:14 i have an embarassing quandary. 21:08:20 http://paste.lisp.org/display/75588 21:08:39 how do i get a bison-style parser to stop after reading just one expression in a series of expressions? 21:08:43 Don't worry: embarrassment is all part of growing up, and being British. 21:09:13 heh 21:09:47 i'm given to understand that that particular parser generator is relatively widespread in its use. 21:15:26 -!- peter_12_ [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:16:31 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:20:08 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 21:20:13 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@CMU-221270.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:28:29 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DC391.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:29:43 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:30:01 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:40:21 Cale_ [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 21:40:25 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 21:49:49 -!- AllNight^ [n=EnglishG@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has quit [] 21:55:38 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:58:16 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 21:58:21 -!- Cale_ is now known as Cale 22:02:10 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-189.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 22:03:02 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-97-16.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:06:03 eli: are PLT regular expressions Perl-compatible? 22:12:13 peter_12: if you use pregexp (or #px for literal form) 22:13:24 kryptiskt: thanks 22:19:23 meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-75-51-177-72.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:20:52 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.141.149] has joined #scheme 22:21:13 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:22:26 peter_12: `pregexp' should be very rarely used, #px"..." will give you regexps in an extended, perl-like syntax. 22:24:22 -!- saccade [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:25:48 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [] 22:30:45 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-97-16.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 22:30:48 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:32:33 eli, whats the difference between pregexp and #px? 22:32:37 I thought it amounted to the same thing 22:35:42 jonrafkind: pregexp is a function that builds a (perl) regexp at runtime, from a given string. #px is for literals. 22:36:50 yea ok 22:37:04 is it possible to write a macro that expands into #px ? 22:37:23 Yes, just like a macro that expands to a string -- just insert the #px in the output. 22:40:47 aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has joined #scheme 22:40:49 pilkarn [n=hask@h84n3c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #scheme 22:40:55 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-174-11.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:41:40 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:42:11 if i want to define a shorthand syntax for lambdas like (map #(* _ _) '(1 2 3)) -> (1 4 9) then I use define-syntax right? can someone point to a good doc for define-syntax because I don't get how to use it. 22:42:20 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-240-1.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:43:26 *eli* points in three different directions 22:43:57 pilkarn, you may want to look in the direction of the SRFI document that does roughly what you're describing already. 22:44:16 In fact, you may also want to just use that SRFI instead of hacking together something half-baked that solves 90% of your problem. 22:44:53 specbot, srfi-26? 22:45:12 specbot, srfi-26 22:45:18 specbot, cut 22:45:29 specbot, lambda 22:45:41 *gnomon* smacks specbot upside the haid 22:46:49 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:46:58 Gnaaahhhhh! 22:47:12 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 22:47:25 Riastradh, ? 22:48:04 pilkarn: Sluta byta nick hela tiden., folk stör sig på sådant här i kanalen... 22:49:25 -!- pilkarn [n=hask@h84n3c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has left #scheme 22:49:50 Quoth a misguided reporter for the New York Times at , `What a new Internet might look like is still widely debated, but one alternative would, in effect, create a ``gated community'' where users would give up their anonymity and certain freedoms in return for safety.' Well, I really hope that this misguided reporter is actually being extremely cleverly tongue-in-che 22:49:56 pilkarn [n=hask@h84n3c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #scheme 22:50:31 Riastradh: I saw that too. 22:50:36 It was in the local paper here. 22:50:38 Whack. 22:52:05 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:54:15 how do I compile a file without using DrScheme? I mean when using PLT Scheme...I prefer emacs over drscheme, i have scheme-mode and inferior-scheme working but I dont get how to use the compiler from emacs. what do I call from PLT-scheme to compile a .ss or .scm file? 22:54:29 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:56:16 Anyone here familiar with RDF and some of the vocabularies out there? 22:56:28 -!- Guest81394 [n=m@dslb-088-066-237-007.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:56:40 All the words that pertain to RDF that I know of are spelled with four letters. 22:56:43 pilkarn: Why do you need to compile the file for? 22:56:56 gnomon: :-) 22:58:07 pilkarn: mzc 23:00:15 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:09:08 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has quit [] 23:16:02 eli: to distriute a game 23:18:09 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:20:05 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:20:26 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:22:35 joelmccracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-174-188.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:23:32 -!- joelmccracken is now known as JoelMcCracken 23:26:31 mzc misc.scm doesnt do anything 23:26:52 what is the syntax for compiling? to i need to provide more than the filename? 23:27:13 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has quit [] 23:28:34 light [n=ghost@unaffiliated/light] has joined #scheme 23:31:20 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 23:32:03 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@142.Red-81-39-163.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:35:32 -!- jao [n=user@25.Red-81-32-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:35:51 jao [n=user@25.Red-81-32-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:35:54 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 23:37:47 jsw-lap [n=jsw@cpe-75-187-46-126.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:40:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-97-16.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:43:23 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-189.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 23:44:23 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-189.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 23:45:10 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 23:47:07 harsha_v [n=harsha@drl042.wlan.sas.upenn.edu] has joined #scheme 23:47:30 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:52:36 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:57:33 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]