00:04:42 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 00:05:24 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme 00:09:45 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 00:10:26 j85wilson [n=j85wilso@cpe-75-187-46-126.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:15:26 -!- peddie [n=peddie@GUGGENHEIM-FOUR-SEVENTEEN.MIT.EDU] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:16:38 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:31:48 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:09 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 00:38:22 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 00:44:07 -!- Mr_Cat_ [n=Mr-Cat_@hg-ro.corbina.net] has left #scheme 00:45:00 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:46:56 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 00:52:05 mr-slave: countdown for everybody 00:52:05 everybody: 1234227125... another three days, twenty-two hours left 00:52:58 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE5EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:58:03 raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:58:18 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-134.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:58:45 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-134.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:00:46 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 01:01:23 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:03:27 -!- BMeph [n=BMeph@wsip-70-167-169-169.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 01:06:40 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:15:36 troter [n=troter@nurikabe.timedia.co.jp] has joined #scheme 01:26:08 -!- Axioplase_ [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit ["leaving"] 01:30:39 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-246-190-75.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:34:50 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["He rode off into the sunset. . ."] 01:41:30 Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 01:48:46 -!- X-Scale2 is now known as X-Scale 01:49:41 *mejja* reads: http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/44215 01:51:48 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 01:52:49 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 01:54:11 peddie [n=peddie@TEP-ONE-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 01:54:19 -!- eno___ is now known as eno 01:56:42 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:57:35 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:01:14 Riastradh: Thanks, fixed. 02:01:18 -!- pitui [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:03:36 good morning foof 02:03:48 hey 02:05:19 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 02:08:15 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@68.183.230.134] has quit [] 02:14:36 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 02:14:42 echo-area [n=user@119.42.238.68] has joined #scheme 02:17:18 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 02:23:11 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:25:54 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:27:22 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:29:20 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [] 02:30:15 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:35:46 anduk [n=john@173-22-166-236.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 02:35:51 -!- anduk is now known as kfjas 02:45:05 foof: are you fluent enough to read this page? http://www.users-side.co.jp/USA_WEB/product_pg_scan.php?sk=0&str=happy 02:45:33 *foof* is very thankful erc-speak-mode abbreviates URLs :) 02:46:06 Sure I can read it, what do you want to know. 02:46:43 foof: i want to know if you'll order me a happy hacker professional, without keykaps; or direct me to the right one 02:46:50 i suspect they're the third and fourth ones down 02:47:53 i can probably just fill out the address/cc details more or less blindly 02:47:54 Yes, the ones with  are w/o keycaps. 02:48:04 utf-8 didn't come through 02:48:16 oh 02:48:39 Well, 3rd & 4th down are no keycaps, English layout. 5th and 6th are no keycaps, Japanese layout. 02:48:43 how about the KBD####### codes? 02:48:56 ok, that's what i thought; thanks 02:48:59 -!- ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:49:12 HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has joined #scheme 02:49:54 and what do the green, blue and white add-to-cart buttons signify: UPS, EMS and ___? 02:50:18 (EMS being internal japanese mail, i'd wager) 02:50:42 Green is within Japan. EMS is an express Japanese mail - it's what you want for international. 02:50:48 White is just go to cart. 02:50:50 klutometis: I think it's a UPS-like chain 02:51:14 foof: is EMS a UPS equivalent or part of the Japanese post office? 02:51:28 It's part of the post office. 02:51:31 ah ok 02:51:35 my mistake 02:51:49 fantastic; babelfish can get me through cc-processing, i'd wager 02:51:52 I thought it was like DHL but for Japan 02:52:31 The postal system was recently de-regulated, but I don't think there are any real competitors yet. 02:53:07 US Post Office will probably never be fully dereg'ed, sadly 02:53:23 then again UPS and FedEx can be pretty goofy these days 02:54:00 so might be a good thing 02:54:40 klutometis: Can't you get happy hacking keyboards elsewhere? 02:57:00 (and you can confirm what you're getting by clicking on the image) 02:58:53 Ah, the Japanese layouts just have the kana symbols blanked out - the English is still there. 02:58:59 foof: probably not as cheap 02:59:18 Fujitsu charges a fortune for English-only Happy Hacking KB's 02:59:26 well in excess of actual worth 03:00:22 benny` [n=benny@i577A0A5A.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 03:02:17 -!- HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:03:41 HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has joined #scheme 03:04:17 Aren't the HHK Pro's EOL? 03:05:38 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:06:12 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0C7F.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:06:18 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:06:27 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 03:07:22 -!- benny` is now known as benny 03:07:33 meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-246-190-75.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:09:21 Why does Xah Lee want to pay money for a pretty-printer when so many exist, some of them pubic domain? 03:10:00 foof: Why does Xah Lee? is a question we all probably ask at one point in our lives. 03:10:03 It's the pubic lice that bother him, I suspect. 03:11:15 ah, that would be scary, especially coming from someone named "feeley" 03:12:19 But arcfide is entirely correct. 03:15:20 Who are people rooting for on for the Committee? 03:15:23 who is xah lee 03:15:36 Not worth the trouble, kfjas. 03:15:37 kfjas: better you don't know 03:15:45 ha k 03:16:35 -!- HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:17:55 HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has joined #scheme 03:19:28 Wow, Jaffer's statement is scary! :o 03:19:59 *jcowan* hopes his statement is warm and fuzzy, then. 03:20:52 Remember that the steering committee doesn't actually make decisions about the design of the reports. 03:21:18 ... and Shivers, as usual, is not making any effort in the Scheme community. 03:21:58 Isn't that a Good Thing. 03:22:14 *jcowan* has no desire to be gunned down for being on the wrong side of the letrec* controversy. 03:25:04 Riastradh: Yes, which is why one strategy is to choose someone you don't agree with for the committee who might otherwise end up as an editor. 03:27:19 Isn't it possible for one of the committee to end up as an editor? 03:27:23 No. 03:27:39 Not without forfeiting the position on the steering committee. 03:28:04 Well, right, of course, but it is still possible. 03:28:22 Hmmm... there are no nominees from the PLT group. 03:28:31 *arcfide* chuckles. 03:30:34 foof: hhk professional seems out-of-stock at all the anglophone joints 03:30:45 hhk lite, but that's less acceptable 03:31:03 klutometis: I have a HHP, and it's not a great keyboard. I don't understand (believe) the hype. 03:31:08 arcfide: are they EOL? christ 03:31:17 klutometis: On the PFU site, it indicates that the HHK Professional reached its end in 2006. That means that there probably aren't meany around for sale. 03:31:25 Daemmerung: what do you prefer? 03:31:28 klutometis: It appears that they are only selling the Lite 2 version now. 03:31:35 What it is, is compact as all get-out. And that's okay in its niche. 03:31:37 arcfide: i thought that was this pre-RoHS compliant version 03:31:40 On the other hand, DataHand has a few Professional II models in stock. ;-) 03:31:48 gkatsev [n=gkatsev@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 03:32:09 klutometis: I have a noisy as hell Das Keyboard II, as well as a Razer Tarantula with entirely too many keys in the wrong places. 03:32:32 Daemmerung: my wife hated das keyboard; made me throw it out 03:32:34 I like the Das quite a bit. 03:32:41 Ah. The noise, i imagine. 03:33:16 The HH feels a bit mushy to me. 03:33:37 Pity you can't try on keyboards, like you would shoes. 03:34:35 Daemmerung: i hear you about the HH, though; i used to fetishize it merely because it was expensive 03:34:41 Oh, I am a liar and a cheat. I have a Lite II after all. My mistake. 03:34:42 maybe the emperor is clothesless, though 03:34:53 Daemmerung: oh, not the pro? hmm 03:35:17 I had a Lite 2 and then I got a Professional. There is a difference, and one that I thought was pretty significant. 03:35:23 It's nice (the Lite II) because it is way tiny, and so fits well in the corner of the office to which I've consigned it. 03:35:28 arcfide: yet you prefer the datahand? 03:35:34 klutometis: Yes. :-) 03:36:17 However, I have a Personal Edition, which isn't being made anymore. There are some Professional versions, but those are rather expensive. 03:36:39 The DataHand isn't a regular keyboard, either. HHK Pro is probably the best regular form keyboard I have used. 03:36:44 meaning that the pro has been discontinued, and is temporarily available? 03:37:11 datahand, that is 03:37:38 klutometis: I think the story on that was that their supplier said they couldn't make them anymore, and this caused them to run out. Now, they have some more. I don't think they want to discontinue any of them, but they seem to have manufacturing issues. 03:39:00 -!- HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:42:03 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 03:42:33 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-203-69.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Good Night."] 03:49:17 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:58:14 *offby1* prefers the mojo hand 03:58:46 *jcowan* prefers the Hand of Glory 04:01:49 I give up. I can't even make the third step. 04:02:03 *foof* prefers manos, the hands of fate 04:02:50 Surely it must be easier to think of phrases beginning with `Glory' than phrases beginning with `Sassoon'. 04:08:08 who's that riding? John the Evaluator 04:09:01 who's that typing? typing the Book of the Seventh Scheme 04:09:14 *Names* beginning with Sassoon. 04:09:15 -!- kfjas is now known as anduk 04:09:27 -!- anduk is now known as kfjas 04:09:51 also, you guys are so ridiculously culturally literate it is awesome 04:11:23 Oh, was that the game? 04:11:29 *foof* prefers glory holes 04:12:00 foof: I knew someone would drop to that level 04:12:02 I didn't know it was 04:12:03 *mbishop* foofs 04:12:43 Who's that baby / What is he doin' / He's my grandson / He is a chewin' / Dorian / Chewin' on his bib. (Air: Puttin' On The Ritz) 04:14:48 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:16:16 Adamant: I'll frenchify you. 04:16:36 you'll french fry me? 04:17:15 maybe, but not before me and my byte machete chop you into digital fatback. 04:18:11 I'm spamming everyone with quotes. 04:18:15 ah ok 04:18:19 mbishop: Let's put antibiotic in our milk. 04:18:21 hi 04:18:31 *rudybot* throws offby1's dentures at mbishop 04:18:40 i downloaded the source code of rudybot 04:18:49 NOOOOO 04:19:05 rudybot: tell wastrel NOOO 04:19:05 wastrel: NOOO 04:19:07 rudybot: you are cloned, forsooth 04:19:08 Adamant: ? 04:19:27 but i am to scheme n00bish to understand it 04:19:28 wastrel: you'll have noticed that all the cool stuff is from eli 04:19:31 for the most part 04:20:10 wastrel: since you've got the git repository, go back in time to the commit whose comment is something like "there ya go: and IRC bot in PLT v4". It's _really_ simple. Work forward from there. 04:20:17 s/and/an/ 04:24:28 perhaps i will do it 04:25:46 it is a single file and very short 04:26:27 jcowan, I know originally it was names, but in this context the category appeared to be phrases. 04:26:44 mr-slave: countdown for the-masses 04:26:44 the-masses: 1234240004... another three days, nineteen hours left 04:28:45 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 04:29:41 *jcowan* wonders whether the event in question has become a part of pop (or Monty Python) culture? 04:29:43 s/?/. 04:30:31 Clearly it ought literally, by Adamant's remark, to be literary culture. 04:30:44 -!- yaroslav_h|sleep [n=yaroslav@89.109.22.97] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:31:48 I am confuzzled 04:32:35 thank you for your guidance offby1 04:32:54 I think you made that word up, thou culturally literary charlatan. 04:33:16 doh 04:41:10 wastrel: Let's javascript(void); 04:41:41 rudybot: eval (current-seconds) 04:41:41 *offby1: ; Value: 1234240900 04:42:09 rudybot: eval (seconds->date 1234567890) 04:42:09 *offby1: ; Value: #(struct:date 30 31 15 13 2 2009 5 43 #f -28800) 04:42:14 rudybot: eval (date->string (seconds->date 1234567890) #t) 04:42:14 *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: date->string in module: 'program 04:42:21 *sigh* 04:42:30 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl080.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 04:42:30 rudybot: eval (require scheme/date) 04:42:32 rudybot: eval (date->string (seconds->date 1234567890) #t) 04:42:32 *offby1: ; Value: "Friday, February 13th, 2009 3:31:30pm" 04:42:49 rudybot: eval (date->string (seconds->date 0) #t) 04:42:49 *offby1: ; Value: "Wednesday, December 31st, 1969 4:00:00pm" 04:48:16 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-231-10.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 04:50:29 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:57:56 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@195.91.224.193] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:10:17 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176212144.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:11:03 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:12:47 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 05:26:57 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176222038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:28:02 tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has joined #scheme 05:41:42 brandelune [n=suzume@pl481.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:43:26 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:49:06 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Bailing out"] 05:55:20 foof [n=user@isa7-dhcp-116-127.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 05:57:30 *foof* has no idea how the semantics of "shy" regex patterns are supposed to work 05:58:50 They are more or less defined in terms of their backtracking behavior. 05:59:55 Now, from a DFA standpoint this makes no difference. They match exactly the same strings whether they are shy or not. 06:00:44 So you should be able to do a DFA conversion and leave the shy distinction to any post-facto submatch handling. 06:02:19 *But* if the whole regex is wrapped in a shy operator, it changes the normal POSIX firstmost/longest behavior to firstmost/shortest. 06:02:46 i.e. you match the same language, but can get different results when searching. 06:04:53 (And it's not just the one special case of the outer group being non-greedy, a shy operator anywhere in the regexp can change the results.) 06:05:21 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 06:07:19 Aren't you talking about non-greedy qualifiers? "Shy" are just the non-capturing kind of groups, IIRC. 06:07:52 Oops, yes, sorry. 06:08:13 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:08:47 I mean the non-greedy, ??, *? and +? operators. 06:09:10 So why are they problematic? 06:09:42 Because in theory, they're no different from ?, * and +, but in practice they are :/ 06:10:18 That depends on what you mean by `theory'... 06:10:38 They both match exactly the same regular languages. 06:11:26 Now, the irregex DFA conversion is completely independent of submatch information. First it searches the whole string, returning the leftmost/longest match according to POSIX rules. 06:11:30 One difference is that you can grab parts of the matches, so (a*?)a* and (a*)a* and a* all match the same patterns, but the group matches different parts. 06:12:02 Another difference is that you usually use a regexp not as a tool for identifying a language, but as a tool to search for a match in a string -- and then there is also a difference. 06:12:04 Then a separate subroutine figures out where the submatch groups are, within the string range matched. 06:13:15 Whether you do the grouping pre- or post-match doesn't really matter. 06:13:30 So, in theory, since they match the same language, you could want to allow non-greedy operators in the pattern, use the same DFA, and then have the submatch extractor pick out the smallest possible sub-patterns that fill the whole match. 06:13:33 And the second difference is still there. 06:13:53 (for the non-greedy operators) 06:14:32 However, this doesn't work, because the endpoints of the match itself can be affected by the presence of non-greedy operators. 06:14:52 That sounds to me like a viable option -- but I wouldn't be surprised if it requires roughly the same amount of work to figure out the grouping post-mortem. 06:14:54 So you can't use a DFA at all. You _have_ to use backtracking to support non-greedy operators. 06:16:12 You could of course specify that non-greedy means non-greedy within the context of the longest overall match, but this definition conflicts with the results of every other regexp engine that supports non-greedy patterns. 06:16:42 "DFA" can mean lots of things... 06:17:57 eli: Do you have a valid point, or are you picking at semantics there? I'm talking about a very specific NFA->DFA conversion well studied in the context of regular languages. 06:20:47 (Yes, there are a couple of caveats. You can convert individual pieces of the regexp to a DFA. You could also have a subroutine that returned every possible match (possibly lazily) using the DFA, and pass those results to whatever is trying to figure out the non-greedy groupings. But you can't use the traditional algorithm.) 06:21:17 Sorry, it looks to me like you are the one who's "picking at semantics" -- a possible implementation of matching a language specified by a DFA is done with backtracking; and that's good enough for me as a user of such a facility. If you think otherwise then fine. 06:22:39 Well, in this case the language is specified by a regexp, and as an optimization we convert this to a DFA, and execute over the DFA for a linear-time match (as opposed to potentially exponential-time backtracking). 06:23:21 That's what I'm talking about. You can use whatever terminology you like if you want to help me with the dilemna, but I really don't want to argue semantics. 06:25:05 (FWIW, I think a non-backtracing NFA is the best solution, though it won't be able to beat a precompiled DFA on raw speed.) 06:26:08 The fundamental problem is the very definition of what substring is matched in the presence of non-greedy operators is not defined. The only definition is "what the other libraries return," notably Perl and PCRE. And this is specifically defined in terms of the backtracking algorithm they use. 06:27:12 Which makes linear-time matching imopssible. 06:27:25 Impossible, even. 06:37:47 what is the difference between these two: 1) (define (hw) (display "hello world") and 2) (define hw "hello world") 06:49:48 *foof* is baffled by the entire concept of going to the work of creating a DFA representation of something and then not just iterating over it with a linear machine - backtracking in that case is more work! 06:54:37 meanburrito920 [n=John@adsl-76-195-146-199.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 06:59:03 morphir : the former defines `hw' to be a procedure that when applied to zero arguments will display "hello world" on the current output, and return an unspecified value. the latter defines `hw' to be the string "hello world" 07:00:13 ski_: thanks for clarifying that 07:02:02 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 07:03:23 peter_12_ [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 07:03:58 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 07:08:08 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-246-190-75.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:08:26 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:13:07 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Client Quit] 07:13:52 -!- meanburrito920 [n=John@adsl-76-195-146-199.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["has been attacked by a grue"] 07:14:39 spooneybarger [n=spooneyb@cpe-74-73-111-254.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:18:37 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:19:11 Meh, if I ever get the time to make this a SRFI I should get some feedback then :/ 07:20:54 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:30:43 -!- peter_12_ [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 07:32:49 i still don't understand that bot 07:37:16 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 07:51:00 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:53:47 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 07:56:46 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:57:55 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:58:17 morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 08:35:11 BW^- [i=Miranda@92.81.165.86] has joined #scheme 08:35:24 what kind of problems do you think Haskell is most suited to solve? 08:39:16 -!- BW^- [i=Miranda@92.81.165.86] has quit [Client Quit] 08:43:53 BW^- probably ones where provability is important. 08:51:01 Yes -- in contrast, Scheme is much better for unprovable problems. 09:03:42 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-159-249.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:15:06 .. and for problems where the provability is unprovable ? 09:23:29 use haskell to write factorial or fibonacci 09:27:54 -!- raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:38:13 or fibonorial and factacci 09:51:34 jmo- [n=jmo-@83.233.243.145] has joined #scheme 10:02:48 Mr-Cat_ [i=ejabberd@jabbus.org] has joined #scheme 10:08:54 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-192-214.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:09:21 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-192-214.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 10:09:51 brandelune_ [n=suzume@pl191.nas932.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 10:13:38 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-192-214.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:14:16 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-167-172.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 10:15:19 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:15:28 -!- jao 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[n=jewel@dsl-242-159-249.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:25:54 Mr-Cat_ [i=ejabberd@jabbus.org] has joined #scheme 15:31:21 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 15:35:31 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:35:43 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:36:30 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 15:37:28 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-165-30.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:39:52 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 15:42:59 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:44:10 -!- hemulen_ is now known as hemulen 15:44:34 rudybut: (require srfi/13) 15:45:18 rudybot: eval (require srfi/13) 15:45:35 rudybot: eval (string-null? "abc") 15:45:35 Mr-Cat_: ; Value: #f 15:46:04 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:47:07 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:49:23 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 15:52:22 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #scheme 15:56:51 -!- notyouravgjoel [n=joelmccr@CMU-221270.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:57:33 notyouravgjoel [n=joelmccr@CMU-221270.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 15:58:04 -!- Mr-Cat_ [i=ejabberd@jabbus.org] has left #scheme 15:59:50 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:00:20 -!- notyouravgjoel [n=joelmccr@CMU-221270.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 16:00:38 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:03:01 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 16:03:43 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:05:40 -!- xwl [n=user@123.112.115.27] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:06:00 pitui [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:13:37 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 16:16:46 .oO("string-null?"?) 16:16:53 rudybot: doc string-null? 16:16:53 offby1`: no docs for a current binding, but provided by: srfi/13 16:16:56 -!- peddie [n=peddie@TEP-ONE-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:17:05 rudybot: (require srfi/13) 16:17:05 offby1`: ? 16:17:06 rudybot: doc string-null? 16:17:06 offby1`: no docs for a current binding, but provided by: srfi/13 16:17:09 rudybot: eval (require srfi/13) 16:17:11 rudybot: doc string-null? 16:17:11 offby1`: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/srfi-std/srfi-13.html#string-null-p 16:17:14 (define (string-null? x) (equal? x "")) 16:17:23 odd 16:17:28 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 16:21:55 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:22:32 notyouravgjoel [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-69.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #scheme 16:26:04 -!- notyouravgjoel [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-69.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 16:26:19 notyouravgjoel [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-69.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #scheme 16:27:22 mdmkolbe [n=adamsmd@batman.cs.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 16:27:45 Which versions (if any) of MzScheme support R6RS? 16:28:03 v4 16:29:27 hmm, then does it not support "import" on the REPL? It gives me this error http://pastebin.com/m69eb522c 16:30:09 *mdmkolbe* is more of an Ikarus user and is only using mzscheme for testing 16:31:53 It does not support import on the REPL. REPL is problematic in R6RS. 16:34:42 Then is there a way to get it to import some libraries when the REPL starts or any other way to get libraries in scope for the REPL? (e.g. "$ mzscheme --import '(my-lib)'") 16:35:57 bweaver_ [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 16:36:00 -!- bweaver_ is now known as bweaver 16:36:07 Not to my knowledge. Again, by the letter of the R6RS law, REPL doesn't work. It's useful that Ikarus supports it, but that's not letter-of-the-law R6RS per my understanding of same. 16:39:02 *Daemmerung* supposes that one could write his own R-E-P-L in the body of a R6RS program.... 16:40:09 kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 16:42:05 Daemmerung: that would depend on how you specifie the evaluation environment for eval 16:48:00 -!- bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:51:29 Ok, so I thought maybe I can do this with a scheme-script, but now it gives this http://pastebin.com/d7d9b448c What am I doing wrong? 16:52:18 Don't you need to precede R6RS programs with a special lexical marker? 16:52:29 Something like #!r6rs IIRC 16:52:54 Daemmerung: thanks, that fixed it 16:53:36 *mdmkolbe* shakes fist at either Ikarus for not requireing the marker when the spec does or mzscheme for requiring the marker when the spec doesn't (he's not sure which) 16:54:25 Recall that the default for mzscheme.exe is not R6RS. Try using plt-r6rs.exe instead. (obviously sans .EXE if that isn't your platform) 16:56:46 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-167-172.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:56:53 -!- notyouravgjoel [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-69.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:57:14 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-167-172.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 16:58:50 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:59:15 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:01:16 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:02:59 bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 17:14:28 -!- jao [n=user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:19:38 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 17:23:02 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 17:30:59 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:31:06 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 17:31:20 forcer [n=forcer@e179196115.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 17:32:30 -!- xdaadx [i=xda@94.26.67.214] has quit [] 17:36:43 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:37:45 peddie [n=peddie@MCNAIR-TWO-SIXTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:43:16 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:48:20 -!- pitui [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:53:39 wal [n=kuki@host141-160-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 17:53:44 hi 17:54:09 -!- wal [n=kuki@host141-160-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #scheme 17:56:04 jonrafkind [n=jon@eng-5-4.hotspot.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:57:39 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@host86-147-109-90.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 17:59:11 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:59:45 morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 18:10:31 tr3 [n=tr3@host28-43-dynamic.183-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 18:11:00 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 18:13:24 Nichibutsu [n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has joined #scheme 18:16:47 -!- forcer [n=forcer@e179196115.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:18:23 forcer [n=forcer@g224064078.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 18:29:51 Daemmerung: the REPL nowhere defined in R6RS, it also does not state it is not allowed. my understanding is that you can provide it, and it's semantics can wildly differ from R6RS (but probably not a good idea) without affecting your own implementations conformance/compliance to R6RS 18:31:51 i was not into scheme when that was discussed/designed, but I suppose the mutability of the interaction-environment goes against the notion of immutable environments in R6RS (aka libraries) 18:32:28 incubot: jesus, man; why do people bother with r6rs? 18:32:30 I've heard JESUS: The Monster Truck is at http://jesusthemonstertruck.com/. 18:32:36 thanks 18:33:03 klutometis: i got bored with the little substance in R5RS :p 18:33:32 leppie: ah, but that's the very precondition for piety 18:33:33 but I agree with most, it should not be part of the core language, but rather standard libraries 18:33:46 idle hands :p 18:34:09 -!- bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:34:28 ideally we all should work towards one common implementation in pure scheme for the standard libraries 18:34:37 -!- mdmkolbe [n=adamsmd@batman.cs.indiana.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:36:32 rtra_ [n=rtra@89.180.62.39] has joined #scheme 18:36:32 someone on the steering commitee electorate list also mentioned (runtime) profiles, I think that's a very good idea 18:38:21 -!- kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:41:42 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 18:42:14 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:42:30 -!- rtra_ is now known as rtra 18:43:45 AtnNn [n=welcome@x-132-204-255-126.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #scheme 18:44:20 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:49:51 notyouravgjoel [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-61.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #scheme 18:51:11 pitui [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:03:29 sreeram [n=sreeram@122.164.119.236] has joined #scheme 19:06:01 -!- notyouravgjoel [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-61.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:12:17 jr92 [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:12:36 melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined 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[n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has quit [] 19:51:47 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:55:41 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 19:56:17 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:01:34 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:05:14 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 20:06:18 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 20:07:43 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@122.164.119.236] has quit [] 20:07:49 jah [n=jah@52.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 20:11:00 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 20:13:42 choas [n=lars@p5B0DE327.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:15:01 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:17:46 jewel_ [n=jewel@41.247.199.21] has joined #scheme 20:18:28 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Client Quit] 20:19:15 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 20:20:47 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 20:22:41 -!- jah [n=jah@52.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:30:32 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:30:33 sebell [n=sctb@adsl-71-135-98-155.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 20:30:49 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:40:09 aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has joined #scheme 20:41:03 Where does this absurd `R6RS precludes REPL' superstition come from? 20:42:48 From fairy tales and child horrors? 20:42:49 Who's gibbering about that, via what channel? 20:44:17 Riastradh: As for me, it's the first time I hear that. Is there any reasoning on that? 20:49:53 That's what I'm asking, Mr-Cat. I heard it most recently from Daemmerung, but he's not the only to have subscribed to the superstition. 20:50:54 Is the subscription free of charge, or should I pay, say, annual fee? :) 20:52:35 If you're referring to Daemmerung's most recent note on that point in this channel, Riastradh, he only claims that the REPL is problematic (and implies that it is underspecified) in R6RS, not that said spec precludes the REPL altogether. 20:52:41 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:52:42 Or am I misreading? 20:52:43 (Ha! Quoth one wacky Jacqui, in a public letter to the Guardian, `I know of no community in the country that has yet to join the crusade of some in the Conservative party for fewer CCTV camears.') 20:53:04 `Again, by the letter of the R6RS law, REPL doesn't work.' 20:53:53 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 20:54:54 Am I misreading? 20:55:59 Well, maybe it's about r6rs module system, which, afaik sometimes makes it necessary to split the program into modules wthout any, well, architectural (or so) reasons. I mean that either to use a user-defined function in a macro one should define it in a separate module or I didn't get the module system right. 20:56:00 ? 20:56:02 Btw 20:57:49 How can I use an srfi-13 function in plt in syntax-case macro? Plt complains about the functions from srfi-13 being not defined. 20:58:29 Riastradh, I thought Daemmerung was referring specifically to the semantics of 'import' when used at the REPL, not the entire REPL facility. 20:58:38 It doesn't matter whether you use SYNTAX-CASE, but if you want to use it in a macro, i.e. at macro-expand-time, then you must import it into (or `require it at') the macro-expand-time environment. 21:00:15 Hm... like in r6rs? 21:00:26 Yes, Mr-Cat. 21:02:27 Hm.. is (for-syntax (require what I should be looking for? 21:02:45 Maybe, Mr-Cat. When I last used PLT, it was spelled REQUIRE-FOR-SYNTAX, but that was some years ago. 21:02:48 I shall try it 21:05:15 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 21:05:15 (require (for-syntax ... seems to work for me, thanks 21:05:30 -!- jmo- [n=jmo-@83.233.243.145] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:07:52 *gnomon* closes up Mr-Cat's parentheses, there 21:07:55 )))) 21:08:02 I think that mostly rectifies the balance. 21:08:24 gnomon, the R6RS may not specify semantics for IMPORT at the REPL, but it nevertheless doesn't preclude any such semantics. 21:08:48 Thanks, gnomon. I'm going to paste the smiley below, so, I'll open one paren ) 21:08:55 here the smiley is :) 21:09:00 I wasn't claiming that it did, only that this discussion probably needs a Daemmerung to weigh in on the specifics. 21:09:23 Mr-Cat, you're aware that ')' is a close-paren, yes..? 21:09:23 Agr, I failed to open a paren 21:09:29 I'll take that as a yes. 21:09:40 You got the sense reversed, Mr-Cat. Now we're doomed, and we can never retroactively open them. 21:09:59 You can if your paren count is allowed to be negative! 21:10:29 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 21:10:32 But we don't count parens; we edit them structurally. 21:13:47 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 21:14:00 peddie [n=peddie@GUGGENHEIM-FOUR-SEVENTEEN.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 21:14:10 darwin [n=peddie@GUGGENHEIM-FOUR-SEVENTEEN.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 21:14:44 -!- peddie [n=peddie@GUGGENHEIM-FOUR-SEVENTEEN.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:14:56 -!- darwin [n=peddie@GUGGENHEIM-FOUR-SEVENTEEN.MIT.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 21:14:59 peddie [n=peddie@GUGGENHEIM-FOUR-SEVENTEEN.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 21:31:13 julianfondren [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:31:21 -!- julianfondren is now known as ayrnieu` 21:31:38 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:31:40 -!- ayrnieu` is now known as ayrnieu 21:38:13 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-203-69.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:39:25 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:40:03 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:40:12 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5452.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:57:05 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5452.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #scheme 21:57:57 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@41.247.199.21] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:01:25 Per r6rs 5.1, a Scheme program consists of a top-level program plus some libraries. There is no notion of incremental definition or execution anywhere in the spec. 22:01:56 Where does the R6RS say `an implementation of Scheme may not provide a REPL with access to the module system'? 22:02:39 Right after the part where it specifies that an implementation of Scheme may not signal an error by mailing a gift package of chocolates to Braintree, Massachusetts. 22:03:05 *gnomon* senses a business opportunity, there 22:03:14 Belgian choocolate? 22:03:14 *Daemmerung* curses his poor timing 22:03:48 *mejja* is into oo tonight... 22:04:37 Programmers should not rely on a specific number of chocolates, or the specific fillings themselves. 22:04:53 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 22:07:00 mejja, you may apply the epithet of `silly goose' to me. 22:08:00 I can't seem to find the belgian chocolate modules. what is this, some kind of joke? 22:08:20 *proq* M-x brews some tea 22:08:44 Daemmerung: IMHO, REPL is mostly a development tool. R6RS says nothing about, say, scheme IDE's as well. 22:09:06 I, uh. I'm afraid I have at least four or so tea-brewing commands in my .emacs file. 22:10:05 My linux box knows nothing about tea brewing, should I install some additional packages? 22:10:35 Oh, that one is misspelled as `tee'. I'll post a bug report then... 22:11:01 My BSD box with the malfunctioning ACPI could have brewed tea when building anything more complicated than `tee'. 22:11:49 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 22:12:41 -!- sebell [n=sctb@adsl-71-135-98-155.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.1.1"] 22:13:10 Hrm, should BIND-SOCKET and LISTEN-SOCKET really be BIND-SOCKET! and LISTEN-SOCKET!? 22:13:19 No! 22:13:24 -!- peddie [n=peddie@GUGGENHEIM-FOUR-SEVENTEEN.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:13:36 Okay... 22:13:44 I see you feel strongly about that. 22:13:46 No more than DISPLAY should be DISPLAY!, I would think. 22:14:12 Precisely! Things grow! a trifle! distracting with! exclamation marks! after every! other word! 22:14:31 Reserve them for where they convey important meaning. 22:14:32 But! it! does! add! excitement! to an otherwise unremarkable program. Fer sure. 22:15:45 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:16:00 Well, after I document my code, I am thinking about making a release of this sockets library, so, if any of you would like to take a look at it in a little bit, that would be great. 22:16:23 Mostly, I'm interested in suggestions about things that would be annoying to change in future versions, like interfaces and names. 22:16:24 :-) 22:18:44 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@x-132-204-255-126.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit ["q"] 22:20:34 arcfide: Is that you, who asked about the most natural naming convention for ipv4 endpoint here? 22:20:40 Yes. 22:20:52 I wonder, what naming conventions do you use now :) 22:21:00 Just curious 22:21:27 Well, I had used SOCKET-ADDRESS/INTERNET, but then, after some using it, I decided that INTERNET-SOCKET-ADDRESS really was the most sensible. 22:21:31 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:21:40 Although, I'm willing to adjust on that. 22:21:44 arcfide: just curious, how are you documenting your scheme: just ad-hoc comments, docstrings, or do you have some literate programming facility? 22:21:45 Uh... a long one :) 22:21:56 No longer than the words that `sockaddr_in' stands for. 22:22:04 I use SOCKET-PROTOCOL/AUTO and SOCKET-DOMAIN/INTERNET, though. 22:22:16 `Auto'? 22:22:27 Riastradh: That's the term I see used most often. 22:23:08 arcfide: So, `auto' protocol chooses randomly between tcp, udp ad etc? 22:23:11 klutometis: I use a marginally disciplined set of comments in the file. 22:23:18 `Randomly'? 22:23:21 :) 22:23:41 Mr-Cat: it does the same thing as specifying 0 as the third parameter for socket(2). 22:23:52 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-231-10.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 22:24:03 I thought SOCKET-PROTOCOL/WHATEVER-YA-LIKE was a bit much. 22:24:24 arcfide: yeah, that makes sense 22:25:04 klutometis: I suppose that the comments would be suitable for grabbing somewhat automatically according to a finite set of simple rules to form a Textual Manual of the Interface. 22:25:30 arcfide, I think you asked me many moons ago why foof-loop doesn't do fixnum-specialized arithmetic. 22:25:40 Yes. 22:25:51 The answer is the same reason for why I have welcomed mejja to apply the epithet `silly goose' to me, but I must meet someone in five minutes, and have no time to elaborate. 22:30:08 geckosen1tor [n=sean@c-75-71-72-89.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:32:10 a-s [n=user@92.80.91.38] has joined #scheme 22:32:51 peddie [n=peddie@TEP-FORTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 22:35:23 geckosen2tor [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 22:35:50 *gnomon* makes a note to follow up on the 'silly goose' story. 22:36:07 *gnomon* also neglects to use backticks to start off a single-quote-delimited string 22:36:21 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:45:40 charlesg3 [n=charles@blowfish.csail.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 22:46:32 -!- geckosen1tor [n=sean@c-75-71-72-89.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:48:47 -!- fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:49:15 arcfide: i've been meaning to a scheme-web for awhile (the corollary to slatex, i suppose); but haven't got around to it 22:49:28 fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 22:52:32 Bah, I found a bug while documenting. Figures. 22:53:04 rtra_ [n=rtra@89.180.15.124] has joined #scheme 22:55:43 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-105-4-178.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 22:56:34 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 22:56:54 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:57:02 -!- rtra_ is now known as rtra 22:59:42 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:00:20 gopher://3e8.org/ 23:00:39 Oh? What's this? 23:01:18 -!- peddie [n=peddie@TEP-FORTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:02:09 Arelius_ [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 23:02:20 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:03:05 aha 23:03:10 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-154-48.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:03:40 peddie [n=peddie@18.224.1.225] has joined #scheme 23:05:35 Haha, what a strange rodent. 23:07:02 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DE327.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:08:22 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 23:09:36 zbigniew: dude; your users are virtuoso memesters 23:12:53 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:15:50 heh 23:18:06 it is now 31 minutes old 23:18:30 zbigniew: Is that server running on Chicken Scheme? 23:18:44 yeah baby 23:18:53 Chicken 4.0.0x5 23:18:58 I see you take a slightly different approach to Gopher than I do. :-) 23:21:26 Interesting screen shot though. 23:21:35 I really ought to put up a Screenshot of my machine. :-) 23:21:44 zbigniew: i'm filled with the wonderment of mid-90s internet 23:22:00 where a search-based chat is mysterious 23:22:00 ja 23:22:23 and things barely work the way you want them to 23:22:31 zbigniew: who created phricken? 23:22:40 *zbigniew* fingers himself 23:22:58 zbigniew: Hehe, interesting. :-) What features does it have? 23:24:13 well, gopher requests are handed off to a succession of handlers, so it can have any features you want 23:24:32 So it's hook-based? 23:25:20 zbigniew: Looks like it has a bit of a different direction than the server I wrote. :-) It's fun to have two gopher Servers in Scheme now. 23:25:21 well, each handler gets a chance to handle the request in order, so in essence 23:25:49 I don't see it easily accessible in your server though, is it hidden somewhere? 23:26:15 the handlers provided with the server are the URL handler, the file handler, the open directory handler, the scheme gophermap handler 23:26:44 you can 'mount' any 'documentroot' (if you like) on any selector; there are two mounts in the running server, one on / and one on /pub/www 23:26:47 notyouravgjoel [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-174-188.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:26:57 I see, okay. 23:27:25 That's nice. 23:27:28 and then for this gophersite, the special handlers "", /chatski, /time, /wiki and /blog have been added 23:27:38 Hehe. 23:28:21 *klutometis* is simultaneously joyed and apprehensive that scheme and gopher go together 23:28:41 :-D 23:29:33 klutometis: when are you going to join us? 23:30:08 arcfide: heh; hell, i guess irc is about as old as gopher 23:30:11 so, carry on 23:30:55 in fact, any tech needs about 20 years of maturity to become useful, in my book 23:32:19 -!- tr3 [n=tr3@host28-43-dynamic.183-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:32:35 arcfide: the src is not packaged yet but for your perusal, reload the 'Public directory' and click on 'Server source' 23:32:55 zbigniew: Thanks. What prompted you to write the server? 23:33:10 klutometis: we are demonstrating that scheme can run modern enterprise-grade apps 23:33:39 arcfide: ... excellent question 23:33:41 next time i'm tempted to put a Options Indexes in my httpd.conf, i'll think of you guys 23:33:52 I know why I wrote mine, but...you? :-) 23:34:17 klutometis: zbigniew's is a bit more than that. 23:34:26 purely for the hell of it, I guess ;) 23:34:33 klutometis: I treat my gopher server as an advanced form of FTP. 23:34:39 He doesn't. :-) 23:38:11 arcfide: phricken has a superset of features over goscher? 23:38:24 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.91.38] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:38:27 zbigniew: "for the hell of it" usually engenders the most satisfying project, imo 23:38:35 klutometis: It uses a fundamentally different approach at the moment. 23:39:08 klutometis: Right now, goscher is a purely Gopher (not +) server, and sticks to the RFC pretty emphatically. 23:39:55 It doesn't, for instance, use gophermap and the i entry type, which is what permits all the informational text to appear on zbigniew's site while having links interspersed. 23:40:08 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 23:40:15 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["He rode off into the sunset. . ."] 23:40:35 well, type 'i' is not a gopher+ thing 23:40:40 It also directly maps a file system (which is statically determined at compile time) to the menu items. You don't make other items. 23:40:53 zbigniew: Yeah, but it is a sort of de facto standard that I didn't implement. 23:41:15 -!- Arelius_ [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [] 23:41:20 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 23:41:27 There are ways of making special items in your file, but that's about it. 23:41:34 s/file/filesystem/ 23:41:54 I wonder whether mine is any simpler implementation wise, though. :-) 23:41:57 Maybe not. 23:42:07 I haven't read the code for phricken yet. 23:42:11 I'm hacking on sockets code. 23:42:12 :-) 23:49:13 Daemmerung: Braintree? What's wrong with Cambridge? 23:50:00 Riastradh: It's `(reuqire (for-syntax ...))' now, which comes from the fact that `for-syntax' is a kind of a macro that controls the required stuffs. 23:50:34 Riastradh: And I suspect that a lot of the R6RS->no-REPL comes from Will's posts. 23:50:47 arcfide: i wrote everything on top of the 'gopher' module which provides an extremely basic API -- accept (read one line and pass selector to handler), make-entry (create record with 5 fields '(type name selector host port)), send these entries to client, send text file, send binary file 23:50:56 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [] 23:59:50 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:50 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:55 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 23:59:55 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme