00:01:14 Time to get some sleep 00:01:15 nite! 00:03:52 inhortte [i=polaris@fucksheep.org] has joined #scheme 00:06:58 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 00:10:44 fbond [n=fab@pool-64-223-124-145.burl.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:11:00 Hi, what's t? 00:11:15 Had a hard time Google'ing for that. 00:11:31 besides the 0x14 letter of the alphabet? ._. 00:12:05 synx: Well, it is defined in my guile when I get there. I hoped someone might know something about that. 00:12:23 Or is there some place I can look up predefined symbols? 00:12:24 fbond: Common Lispish for #t aka True 00:12:33 OH 00:12:34 t 00:12:46 I thought you meant 't fbond not #t 00:12:49 fbond, it helps to supply context when asking questions such as that. 00:12:58 Sure, sorry about that. 00:13:01 fbond, I was about to answer with . 00:13:17 Um, this is #scheme, though, right? 00:13:54 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:13:55 # syntax is kind of weird, but aside from #t #f and #\character ...and #lang in plt, and #ogodmybrain in plt, I don't know of any other time it's used. 00:14:00 -!- hotblack231 [n=jh@p5B0564AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:14:17 wy [n=wy@c-98-228-40-51.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:14:28 synx: There is no literal f, only #f. 00:14:48 searching for # in the plt documentation turns up 82 matches T_T 00:15:13 Vectors, synx. Often it is used for writing unreadable objects. #,(...) in SRFI 10 reader constructors. #. for read-time evaluation in Common Lisp. 00:15:13 Is this remarkable? 00:15:14 guile> (eq? t #t) 00:15:15 #f 00:15:26 fbond, does Guile's documentation say anything about T? 00:15:29 #' and #, are shortcuts for syntax and unsyntax 00:15:40 fbond: yet in guile t is equivalent to "true"? 00:16:12 synx: t triggers the true form of an (if ...) form 00:16:21 Oh and alternate inline string formats like #rx"" or #"" 00:17:03 Every value that is not #F is considered true by the IF form. 00:17:25 Oh, right. 00:17:27 The symbol T, thus, is conisdered true. So is the number 0, the symbol FALSE, the symbol F, the empty string, the empty list, the empty vector, the string "0", &c. 00:17:30 Scheme is not Perl! 00:17:39 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:18:00 (Disturbingly many analogues of the objects I just listed are considered false in Perl.) 00:23:36 osh, reruns of macgyver on tv 00:23:47 ? 00:24:08 minion: advice for mejja 00:24:09 mejja: #11928: First get a book on programming. Then read it. Then write the program. 00:25:19 no need to _get_ a book on programming as there are a large number free online 00:25:58 -!- wy [n=wy@c-98-228-40-51.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:27:04 Riastradh: Hm. I'm having a hard time finding any info in the guile docs. I just realized there's #guile, too, so I guess I should check with them. 00:28:45 bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@209-161-235-37.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 00:29:37 Riastradh: How about adding ".so" to completion-ignored-extensions? 00:30:12 melito_ [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 00:34:21 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:34:42 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-227-20.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:38:41 If anyone is curious, t is present in guile 1.6, but gone in 1.8, and everyone seems surprised that it was ever there. 00:40:29 t and nil are bound to the symbols t and nil, in guile 1.6 00:41:06 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [] 00:41:15 not sure what the point was... (if nil 1 2) => 1 00:41:39 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE45A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:42:01 leppie: ping 00:42:08 Anyone here know how Windows works? :-) 00:43:10 yes! it runs for a bit, then degrades.. 00:43:16 i guess having t helped port cl code, but having nil must have helped break it 00:47:08 rtra_ [n=rtra@89.180.82.108] has joined #scheme 00:48:00 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:48:41 meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-222-235-70.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:51:59 fbond: are you using a very old version of guile? Cause my guile sure doesn't predefine t. 00:52:54 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:53:06 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 00:53:13 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:54:06 -!- rtra_ is now known as rtra 00:54:46 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 00:55:27 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 00:58:05 hkBst: guile 1.6.8 (as I said, t is not defined in 1.8) 00:58:32 -!- bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@209-161-235-37.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 00:59:31 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:01:19 -!- fbond [n=fab@pool-64-223-124-145.burl.east.verizon.net] has left #scheme 01:01:25 troter [n=troter@nurikabe.timedia.co.jp] has joined #scheme 01:02:18 -!- macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:21:06 -!- jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:32:50 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 01:37:14 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:39:32 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:45:12 Vaeshir [n=zane@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 01:56:23 synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:06:11 dmoerner_ [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 02:11:57 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:12:15 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 02:13:14 alexshendi [n=chatzill@dslb-094-218-223-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 02:16:22 -!- bet` [i=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:24:09 -!- aardvarq [i=tgAardva@student3113.student.nau.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:24:29 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:25:28 aardvarq [i=tgAardva@student3113.student.nau.edu] has joined #scheme 02:26:53 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:28:03 fbond [n=fab@pool-64-223-124-145.burl.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:28:19 Hi. How do I convert a floating point number to an integer (truncate it)? 02:28:49 rudybot: eval (floor 3.141592) 02:28:49 *offby1: ; Value: 3.0 02:28:52 rudybot: eval (floor 3.9999) 02:28:52 *offby1: ; Value: 3.0 02:29:01 rudybot: eval (exact->inexact (floor 3.9999)) 02:29:01 *offby1: ; Value: 3.0 02:29:07 oops! 02:29:10 rudybot: eval (inexact->exact (floor 3.9999)) 02:29:10 *offby1: ; Value: 3 02:29:12 *ahem* 02:29:14 :D 02:29:21 fbond: see that? ^^ 02:29:33 offby1: Yeah ... thanks! 02:29:46 rudybot: doc floor 02:29:46 *offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/numbers.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._floor)) 02:30:00 rudybot: r5rs floor 02:30:00 specbot: r5rs floor 02:30:00 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_302 02:30:01 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/botqph 02:30:03 :) 02:32:16 karsten_ [n=karsten@dslb-088-072-200-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 02:32:53 offby1: I think I want "truncate", not "floor", eh? 02:33:13 I dunno. 02:33:17 rudybot: eval (truncate 3.1415) 02:33:17 *offby1: ; Value: 3.0 02:33:19 rudybot: eval (truncate 3.999) 02:33:19 *offby1: ; Value: 3.0 02:33:25 seems about the same 02:33:27 rudybot: doc truncate 02:33:27 *offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/numbers.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._truncate)) 02:34:18 rudybot: eval (truncate -2.5) 02:34:18 karsten_: ; Value: -2.0 02:34:20 difference is with negative numbers, I guess 02:34:21 yeah 02:34:31 rudybot: eval (floor -2.5) 02:34:31 karsten_: ; Value: -3.0 02:37:19 rudybot: (- 0.04 0.01) 02:37:19 Vaeshir: ? 02:37:30 rudybot: eval (- 0.04 0.01) 02:37:30 Vaeshir: ; Value: 0.03 02:38:00 rudybot: eval (- 0.06 0.01) 02:38:00 Vaeshir: ; Value: 0.049999999999999996 02:38:43 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:39:33 oh now here's one that's really puzzling 02:39:40 rudybot: eval (- (inexact->exact 0.06) (inexact->exact 0.01)) 02:39:40 synx: ; Value: 28823037615171173/576460752303423488 02:40:08 rudybot 02:40:35 and correspondingly... 02:40:39 rudybot: eval (- (/ 6 10) (/ 1 10)) 02:40:39 synx: ; Value: 1/2 02:41:59 Christ. 02:43:36 *offby1* raises an eyebrow 02:43:42 Vaeshir: you be nice to him sir 02:44:20 -!- alexshendi [n=chatzill@dslb-094-218-223-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #scheme 02:44:46 offby1: Misery builds character. 02:45:07 we have enough character around here. 02:46:07 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:48:13 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-235-37.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 02:50:32 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 02:50:56 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:51:51 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 02:54:48 meh... the sieve of Eratosthenes goes against everything I learned about streams, yet I can't figure out a better way to do it. primes are so frustrating... 02:55:17 ? 02:56:27 just that it is necessarily a finite stream, even though in reality the prime number sequence is infinite. 02:56:43 David__ [n=David@pool-71-191-251-77.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:56:57 0_o 02:57:02 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #scheme 02:57:16 you could do the same thing as the sieve by just checking each number if it's divisible by previous primes, but then you would be checking numbers multiple times where with the sieve they'd have already been eliminated. 02:57:20 -!- dfeuer_ [n=David@pool-71-191-251-77.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:57:55 offby1 pasted "my prime stream" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74898 02:58:16 that's probably for PLT v3xx 02:58:40 eh I can probably read it. 03:02:15 doesn't that make... a separate sieve for every number? 03:04:20 The sieve of Eratosthenes involves no division. 03:04:57 timchen1` [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #scheme 03:04:58 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 03:05:12 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0CBA.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:05:26 rudybot: init lazy 03:05:27 eli: your sandbox is ready 03:05:39 rudybot: eval (define nats (cons 1 (map add1 nats))) 03:05:47 rudybot: eval (define (divides? n m) (zero? (modulo m n))) 03:05:53 rudybot: eval (define (sift n l) (filter (lambda (x) (not (divides? n x))) l)) 03:06:02 rudybot: eval (define (sieve l) (cons (car l) (sieve (sift (car l) (cdr l))))) 03:06:06 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["bye now"] 03:06:10 rudybot: eval (define primes (sieve (cdr nats))) 03:06:21 rudybot: eval (!! (take 10 primes)) 03:06:21 eli: ; Value: (2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29) 03:06:40 synx: That should be easier to follow. 03:08:21 Wohoo! 03:08:35 oooh 03:08:36 Reduction of a program's memory footprint into a range that makes it actually executable on a modern desktop is nice. 03:08:45 I could have done that myself, had I but a grain of imagination. 03:09:35 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:10:05 offby1: Well, I didn't really look at your code -- too long -- but I wouldn't be surprised if it's doing basically the same thing. 03:10:17 haha lazy wins 03:10:39 of course it is 03:10:41 That's one reason why I dislike srfi-40 -- with all the `stream-' prefixes it becomes impossible to read the code. 03:10:42 just vastly more verbosely 03:11:28 You sort of get the feeling that you get the hang of it, but then you realize that it's only by adding `stream-' on practically everything... 03:11:56 my point though eli is that you have to specify how many primes you want. You cannot take the result of that and then get the 11th prime. 03:12:01 (Which is exactly why I started doing the whole lazy thing, streams are just too weak to demonstrate laziness.) 03:12:32 synx: Why? The `primes' is infinite. 03:12:58 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 03:13:29 rudybot: eval (!! (list-ref primes 10)) 03:13:30 eli: ; Value: 31 03:13:33 If you want the 11th prime, you have to go through the same calculation for all 10 primes again. A(n) cannot be defined in terms of A(n-1). 03:13:34 rudybot: eval (!! (list-ref primes 20)) 03:13:34 eli: ; Value: 73 03:13:37 rudybot: eval (!! (list-ref primes 50)) 03:13:37 eli: ; Value: 233 03:13:57 synx: of course... 03:13:59 ...not. 03:14:19 Am I wrong? I mean... I might be reading it wrong... 03:14:25 This is standard call-by-need caching: you don't repeat the same computation twice. 03:15:37 synx: Let me try something: 03:15:45 -!- elly [n=elly@unaffiliated/elly] has quit [Client Quit] 03:16:17 rudybot: eval (define (divides? n m) (printf "~s/~s? " n m) (zero? (modulo m n))) 03:16:17 I guess I can't read it after all. 03:16:19 Elly [n=elly@PHYREXIA.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 03:16:24 heh 03:16:34 rudybot: eval (define primes (sieve (cdr nats))) 03:16:36 This is standard debug-by-printing 03:16:44 rudybot: eval (car primes) 03:16:45 eli: ; Value: 2 03:16:56 rudybot: eval (list-ref 2 primes) 03:16:56 eli: error: list-ref: expects type as 2nd argument, given: (# . #); other arguments were: 2 03:17:01 rudybot: eval (list-ref primes 2) 03:17:02 eli: ; Value: 5 03:17:03 eli: ; stdout: "2/3? 2/4? 2/5? 3/5? " 03:17:22 ooh that's pretty brilliant 03:17:29 These are the tests that it did to get to the 2nd prime number. 03:17:41 (2nd, counting from 0, of course) 03:17:44 rudybot: eval (list-ref primes 3) 03:17:45 eli: ; Value: 7 03:17:46 eli: ; stdout: "2/6? 2/7? 3/7? 5/7? " 03:17:56 You see? No repeating. 03:18:06 repeating would be silly! 03:18:09 *offby1* nods gravely 03:18:29 And note also that things are checked in "random" order -- only when they're needed. 03:18:40 Yes, but I thought it would have done "2/3? 2/3? 2/4? 2/3? 2/4? 2/5? 3/5?" to get 5. Not obvious that it doesn't do repeating... 03:19:12 rudybot: eval (list-ref primes 4) 03:19:12 eli: ; Value: 11 03:19:13 eli: ; stdout: "2/8? 2/9? 3/9? 2/10? 2/11? 3/11? 5/11? 7/11? " 03:19:17 rudybot: eval (list-ref primes 5) 03:19:17 eli: ; Value: 13 03:19:18 eli: ; stdout: "2/12? 2/13? 3/13? 5/13? 7/13? 11/13? " 03:19:26 Obviously it doesn't, but looks like magic to me. 03:19:46 Yes, laziness can seem that way. 03:19:50 oh... oh wait 03:19:53 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:19:59 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@99.137.203.69] has quit ["Sleeping"] 03:20:08 You're just checking if every natural number divides by all the previous primes! 03:20:26 *eli* imagines Haskell as one of these blue lights that zaps bugs^H^H^H^Hprogrammers. 03:20:49 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 03:21:29 Eekdacat [i=Eekdacat@cpe-74-70-17-167.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:21:49 Yes, it looks like that -- but it's not every natural number, it's a filtered stream. 03:22:08 You get an infinite stream where at each point you have more combined filters. 03:22:24 how would i make a list be treated as a single element 03:22:50 what an odd quesiton 03:22:52 the list needs to be appended to a list, but that list has to be a list of lists 03:23:05 append it the same way you'd append anything else. 03:23:10 What I was saying is the sieve of Eratosthenes eliminates the 2/12? check entirely, checking less and less numbers until they're all just prime. Your method is pretty neat too though... 03:23:25 Eekdacat: (cons list-of-stuff list-of-more-stuff) 03:23:28 rudybot: eval (define a (list 1 2 3)) (define b (list (list 'snord 'ford 'plord))) (append b a) 03:23:28 *offby1: ; Value: ((snord ford plord) 1 2 3) 03:23:37 *ahem* 03:23:39 well. 03:23:52 rudybot: eval (define a (list 1 2 3)) (define b (list (list 'snord 'ford 'plord))) (cond b a) 03:23:52 *offby1: error: eval:1:75: cond: bad syntax (clause is not a test-value pair) at: b in: (cond b a) 03:23:55 rudybot: eval (define a (list 1 2 3)) (define b (list (list 'snord 'ford 'plord))) (cons b a) 03:23:55 *offby1: ; Value: (((snord ford plord)) 1 2 3) 03:24:00 (sigh( 03:24:07 embarrassing myself in public again. 03:25:01 rudybot: eval (let ((a '(a b c)) (b '(1 2 3))) (cons a b)) 03:25:02 synx: ; Value: ((a b c) 1 2 3) 03:25:12 oh needed another list 03:27:10 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:27:16 synx: my method *is* the sieve. You obviously *need* to do the 2/12 test. 03:28:05 augh but but it... but... xD 03:28:47 The sieve is you build up a list of all future natural numbers, and mark off the ones divisible by previous numbers... 03:29:08 Right. And why do you exactly mark off 12? 03:30:03 so when getting '2' as the first answer you would mark off 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, etc... so when you get to 11, it tests 11, skips 12, tests 13, skips 14, 15, 16, tests 17... 03:30:51 hold on right there: how do you know that you mark of 12 (and the others)? 03:30:54 The etc... part is why there needs to be an upper bound to the sieve, since the algorithm would be marking off multiples of 2 for eternity if it didn't stop somewhere. 03:31:46 You know because you checked if 2 divides 12 in the first iteration... 03:32:00 Right, so you *did* check for that. 03:32:07 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [] 03:33:51 so what you're saying is it's possible to make an infinite (lazy) list... of all the numbers divisible by n. 03:34:07 Then you can make an lazy list of all those lists for every n.... 03:34:29 Then you can check through that list of lists shallowly to find the next number that isn't in any of them? 03:34:36 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["strawbérry"] 03:34:38 close. 03:34:49 You begin with the infinite list 2,3,4,5,... 03:35:27 You declare the first number to be prime, and you continue with the rest of them after filtering out those that are dvisible by the first. 03:35:39 -!- Vaeshir [n=zane@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [] 03:35:41 In this case, you declare 2, and continue with 3,5,7,9 03:36:02 You then declare 3, and continue with 5,7,11,13,17... 03:36:05 etc. 03:37:51 and is there a simple way to remove all elements of one list from another 03:38:25 How do you keep it from filtering out 3,5,7,11,etc... before evaluating 3? 03:40:12 Eekdacat: nothing unobvious. just filter the first list by looping each element through the second, and evaluating to #f if it's ever equal. 03:40:44 synx: I don't understand the question. 03:40:59 oh wait 03:41:19 (filter (member? x l) l) 03:41:24 Riastradh: Thank you 03:41:32 er 03:44:07 not quite Eekdacat 03:45:14 it works 03:45:45 (filter (lambda(z) (not (member z a))) b) 03:47:08 that works yes 03:47:18 er... well it works. 03:47:45 tizoc` [n=user@r190-135-15-163.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 03:49:38 morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 03:50:38 removes everything in a from b 03:52:50 ok eli I think I got it 03:53:53 Say it "declares 7, and continues with 11,13,17,19,22,..." 03:53:57 At that point it has never checked the divisibility of 8, right? 03:55:37 My mistake was to think that if it sifted out 8 it would have to check it against the divisibility of 4, which the sieve supposedly eliminates by removing all multiples of 2. 03:56:18 Right. (Only use `5', not `4' -- nothing is checked with 4.) 03:56:40 But if you only check the divisibility of previous primes (up to the square root?), then you'll never check if 4 divides 8. So the multiples of 2 that are not 2 are eliminated, by virtue of that they are not prime. 03:57:29 You never check whether anything is divisible by 4, because you only check divisibility by primes. 03:57:45 right... 03:58:20 okay that makes sense. I worked out a very similar strategy myself once, though not using lazy lists. 03:59:49 If you defined 'sift' there to return true if n was greater than the square root of x, would that eliminate things like checking if 17 divides 19? 04:00:53 or some efficient overestimate of said square root. 04:02:47 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-33-119.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:03:21 rcassidy [n=rcassidy@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 04:03:23 No that wouldn't work. 04:03:33 -!- rcassidy [n=rcassidy@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 04:03:39 `sift's result is actually needed. 04:03:47 eli: are you playing with the project euler puzzles? 04:03:50 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:03:56 karsten_: No. 04:07:17 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:07:19 bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@209-161-235-37.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 04:08:40 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [] 04:10:29 wastrel [n=wastrel@user-12hdult.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 04:23:08 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-235-37.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:28:27 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:29:27 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:29:45 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:30:28 hmph... lazy and iteration isn't working out too well for me. 04:30:42 Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:32:54 wesw02 [n=wes@cpe-75-186-146-220.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:34:54 I'm trying to create multiple instances of a struct and put them into a list but i'm having trouble 04:35:21 this is basically what I'm attempting: http://paste.codeplague.org/38 04:35:56 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-235-253.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 04:35:59 I'm a complete noob and I've been trying to learn scheme, but I haven't been able to find much documentation 04:36:21 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 04:36:45 sorry, use this paste: http://paste.codeplague.org/39 04:37:51 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@150.182.242.124] has quit [] 04:40:30 oh wesw02 you need to say (list subFileOne subFileTwo), the '() thing is very literal. 04:41:10 oh 04:41:29 You could say `(,subFileOne ,subFileTwo) too if you like syntax. 04:41:33 you are correct my good sir 04:41:34 kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 04:41:42 i owe you :) 04:41:53 don't mention it 04:50:27 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:50:52 -!- bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@209-161-235-37.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:56:09 synx: what's "and iteration"? 04:56:46 https://synx.us.to/feepcode/lazy.ss 04:57:00 I get the impression I'm accidentally making an eager list of lazy values, somehow... 04:57:49 Do you mind using a more polite place? 04:57:53 -!- langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:57:56 -!- Eekdacat [i=Eekdacat@cpe-74-70-17-167.nycap.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 04:59:11 *eli* sighs 04:59:38 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-235-253.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 05:00:49 synx: So, where the problem? 05:01:05 FWIW, your code has several fundamental issues. 05:01:16 foof [n=user@clair16.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 05:01:47 yes, issues! 05:01:53 issues are the problem! 05:02:04 First of all, you should dump what you're used to when you iterate over a list with an accumulator. Things work *better* with a simple loop instead. 05:02:26 A more polite..? oh yeah sorry, that's just my computer here. I could nopaste it... 05:02:36 Oh, so ignore tail recursion? 05:02:42 Yes. 05:02:51 Neat! 05:02:57 It works better in terms of runtime etc, and it works better since it doesn't make your code deal with finite lists. 05:03:31 (Actually, I vaguely remember some cute exercise that shows that if you're lazy-ing, then tail-recursive loops are actually more expensive than simple ones.) 05:03:56 yeah, well... yeah. I just didn't want to build up large amounts of promises in a non-tail-recursive loop. 05:04:12 The second major problem that you have is using `printf' in there. You should have a big salt shaker next to it. 05:04:32 [You build the same number of promises anyway.] 05:04:49 Finally, you're using `force' as a function, but that's bogus. 05:04:53 printf? 05:05:11 Yes. Side-effects. Mixing them with laziness is a bad idea. 05:05:27 force appears to be a procedure, not a function... 05:05:41 Appears. 05:05:47 Do you know why `delay' in Scheme cannot be a function? 05:05:59 Yes. 05:06:03 Why? 05:06:11 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:06:54 Because it takes an expression as an argument, and it'd be evaluated before delay could delay it. 05:07:11 I suppose if delay were to take a thunk it might be doable, but... probably not. 05:07:29 Right, because Scheme has uniform strict evaluation rules -- and you want to escape from exactly that rule. 05:08:00 That would work -- but then I'd ask you why there is no `thunk' procedure. 05:08:18 The bottom line is that to delay evaluation in a strict language you must have a special form. 05:08:22 OK so far? 05:10:00 No I mean if you defined (define (delay thunk) thunk) and (define (force promise) (promise)) and... such like that. It'd be a different system, probably not lazy at all. 05:10:25 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176198003.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:10:44 You still need a *special form* -- a `lambda' -- to delay evaluation. 05:10:47 I don't mind if force isn't a procedure. I just wanted to inspect the result to try to figure out how to get it as a finite list of '(3 2 1) 05:11:04 yes, true lambda itself is a syntax. :) 05:11:11 I'm getting to that just now: 05:11:45 Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 05:11:46 You have to remember that once you type `#lang lazy' you're in a different world -- where the default uniform rule is lazy. 05:12:05 -!- Gorgoroth [i=Gorgorot@195-132-141-240.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:12:12 So if you want a `strict' facility -- it must be a special form. 05:12:43 -!- wesw02 [n=wes@cpe-75-186-146-220.woh.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:12:50 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 05:16:47 (Gosh. I wonder how anyone gets fast fixnum and flonum arithmetic out of Gambit? I'm not having much luck.) 05:17:13 Okay eli I can dig that. 05:17:44 *eli* hands over a shovel 05:18:17 I thought that (display x) would require that x be forced, since it's got to be displayed. I guess it might display un-forced promises too though... 05:19:31 Well, yeah -- because side-effects are a bad idea, I never spent any real time making them do everything that they could/should do. 05:19:56 But I think that in the case of `display' they should be forced -- and you might see the result of another thing: 05:19:57 eli, by the way, I don't know whether this is what you might have had in mind earlier, but here's an excellent example of `proper tail recursion' (with scare quotes -- scary scare quotes) in a non-strict language: (define (fold f x l) (if (pair? l) (fold f (f (car l) x) (cdr l)) x)) 05:20:37 I dunno (display (force result)) doesn't seem to work either. Is there some form I don't know about? 05:20:51 the default force for results that shown on the repl is `!' which is similar to plain `force' in Scheme -- it won't force values recursively inside sexpressions, for example. 05:21:12 You should manually insert `!!' where you want *that* kind of force. 05:21:58 (Exercise (synx, try it!): Why does (FOLD + 0 ) overflow the stack using that definition of FOLD? Assume that the total sum, and all the intermediate sums, are small; for example, suppose L is (+1 -1 +1 -1 ... +1 -1).) 05:22:01 (print (!! result)) doesn't give me (3 2 1) either. 05:22:19 Riastradh: Getting at examples is not difficult, of course -- what I don't remember was how to phrase the exercise in an understandable way. 05:23:42 The stack would be a + call for every element of the list... pretty easy to overflow that way. 05:24:41 But...but surely that would affect the non-tail-recursive FOLD-RIGHT, and the tail-recursive FOLD should be exempt! 05:26:55 The evaluation is delayed though Riastradh, so it can't get rid of the stack frame. Though if I remember right, having force, delay and "lazy" forms was supposed to ameliorate that problem. 05:26:59 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176223253.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:28:49 synx pasted "so how about this..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74905 05:28:51 No, the addition of LAZY to the primitive laziness operators is a red herring. Assume that the language is, in fact, still properly tail recursive. 05:29:12 (LAZY is basically needed in order to make Scheme's laziness primitives properly tail recursive.) 05:29:30 Oh, but not their use tail recursive gotcha. 05:30:33 Well, I don't know Riastradh. I guess you can't have tail recursion at all if you don't evaluate everything until the very end? 05:30:53 one would think the FOLD procedure would leave the part of the list not needed for the current value unprocessed, thus not filling up the stack. I guess it doesn't though... 05:32:12 -!- dlurf [n=no@80.251.192.2] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:32:19 erines [i=Gorgorot@195-132-141-240.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #scheme 05:32:21 Right now I'm just trying to understand the basics of laziness, not its inner workings. 05:36:53 -!- melito_ [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 05:45:45 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 05:47:47 synx: you are doing it wrong, if you are trying, you are not lazy enough ;) 05:48:37 ooh right leppie. as is my program has no output and does nothing at all. Perfect! 05:49:08 doesn't scheme support passing around a fucntion with a param or something simular... 05:49:31 like if I have a func (define (funcA x y) (+ x y)) 05:49:31 Arelius: (lambda () (function param)) ... 05:49:52 can't I do something like (define funcB (funcA 2) 05:50:03 Arelius: (lambda (x) (funcA 1 x)) 05:50:12 Thanks 05:50:15 (let ((funcB (lambda (y) (funcA 42 y)) ... ) 05:50:27 I just for some reason thought it supported that kind of thing 05:50:48 It's nice that it does. 05:51:56 (define (funcB y) (funcA 2 y)) 05:52:59 hmm 05:52:59 hrm, yah 05:53:16 I suspect it's probally ML I am thinking of though 05:53:58 rudybot: eval (define (partial procedure . head) (lambda tail (apply procedure (append head tail)))) 05:54:37 rudybot: eval (define (funcA x y) (+ x y)) 05:54:50 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 05:54:50 rudybot: eval (define funcB (partial funcA 19)) 05:54:57 rudybot: eval (funcB 23) 05:54:57 synx: ; Value: 42 05:55:05 <3 06:02:35 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has quit [] 06:03:12 *foof* misses the deadline for his thesis 06:03:35 another semester as a Master's student ;_; 06:04:40 ouch 06:05:26 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:07:03 underspecified [n=eric@naist-wavenet126-121.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:07:54 -!- underspecified [n=eric@naist-wavenet126-121.naist.jp] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 06:08:10 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 06:08:46 underspecified [n=eric@naist-wavenet126-121.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:11:41 oh no 06:12:12 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:13:06 it'll be fine, he's got another half a year to finish now right? 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08:24:06 ha no, wait 08:24:09 it executes (pp '(1 2 3)) 08:24:34 no, I'm actually right 08:24:56 i don't see that 08:25:07 i don't see why this result isn't: 08:25:18 presumably the implicit-`begin' of the first `lambda' expression provides command-continuations which doesn't accept one result passed to them 08:25:18 (pp '(1 2 3)) 2 (pp '(4 5 6)) 08:25:21 print 1234, then, call (pp '(1 2 3)) on k 08:25:40 argh 08:26:07 newb12345 : try removing the `2' argument in the outermost combination 08:26:13 print 1234, then, call ([] 2) with (pp '(4 5 6)) 08:26:27 k is "apply to 2" 08:27:05 k1 is "(pp '(4 5 6)), then apply its result to 2" 08:27:22 double failure in your code 08:27:29 end-of-proof 08:28:39 how does this makes sense? 08:28:48 remove the inner call-cc first, and see 08:29:00 isn't the semantics of call/cc that when I use (k blah), it acts as if the call/cc returns blah 08:31:10 ((call/cc (lambda (k) (pp '(1 2 3)) (lambda (k1) (k k1)) (pp '(4 5 6))))) 08:31:15 doesn't work eihter 08:31:45 chekov, set your editor to stun 08:32:01 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:32:19 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:32:25 newb12345: (call/cc (lambda (k) 1 2 3)) -> returns 3 08:32:26 Axioplase : i don't follow the "call ([] 2) with (pp '(4 5 6))" 08:33:06 (newb12345 : it would help if the code were properly indented, though) 08:33:25 so, ((call/cc (lambda (k) foo bar (pp 42))) 23) prints 42 and then tries to do (#undef 23) 08:33:37 and this obviously fails 08:33:44 aye 08:33:45 (thinking) 08:34:07 newb12345: if you don't return a function, you can't apply it 08:34:27 newb12345: (foo bar) <- if foo is not a function, you failed. 08:34:40 (if foo does not evaluate to a function) 08:34:54 -!- foof [n=user@clair16.naist.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 08:35:18 newb12345 : the continuation denoted by `k' is invoked two times. once, with the continuation denoted as `k1' as parameter, and once, with the result of `(pp '(4 5 6))' 08:35:38 (putting aside scope escaping for Riastradh who's gonna disagree otherwise, but you're not yet there) 08:35:51 try adding a 'print' or 'display' around the inner call/cc so you can see its value being used; right now it's just discarded 08:35:55 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 08:36:36 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:36:53 ski_: its actually called once. He meant once, but call/cc won't jump back. (it's not shift/reset) 08:37:19 s/its/it's 08:38:45 Axioplase : `k1' is passed to `k' (one), then `k1' is invoked, so that `(pp '(4 5 6))' is executed, and then the result of that is passed to `k' (two) 08:38:47 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-229-164.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 08:39:17 -!- mike is now known as Guest82185 08:39:56 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054EF7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:43:58 zbiggy pasted "ccc" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74911 08:44:16 ski_: it calls k1 from the inner call/cc, but never from the "linear textual" flow. That's what I meant. 08:45:42 huh ? 08:46:00 oh, you're a textualist 08:46:15 surely `k' is called in the inner `call/cc' combination 08:46:37 (and i have no idea what "linear textual" flow is) 08:46:49 up-to-bottom 08:47:06 *ski_* stares blankly 08:47:16 a bottom-lover eh 08:47:29 (begin 1 2 3) -> 1 then 2 then 3 08:48:13 by calling k1, he executes 3 *inside* 2. And never *after*. 08:48:26 that's my point. 08:50:36 newb12345: start with only one call/cc. It's tricky enough 08:51:58 call/cc has always bugged me... enough to make my own call/cc based threading library at least heh. 08:52:32 ski_: thanks; your explaination makes sense, it works now :-) 08:53:06 I've never seen an algorithm to call a continuation more than once, without mutating any variables. 08:53:09 Axioplase : i don't follow 08:53:27 always have to set the continuation to the next continuation, or the like. 08:53:29 -!- underspecified [n=eric@naist-wavenet126-121.naist.jp] has quit [] 08:53:44 -!- Guest82185 [n=m@dslb-088-066-229-164.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:54:09 -!- Def [n=joe@71.238.45.45] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:54:11 Axioplase : what is the continuation to `2' in `(begin 1 2 3)' ? 08:54:16 3 08:54:19 no 08:54:28 `3' is not a continuation 08:54:34 (lambda (_) 3) 08:55:04 (and begin's continuation around) 08:55:17 if `k' is the continuation to `(begin 1 2 3)', then the continuation to `2' there is something like `(lambda (..) (k 3))' 08:55:34 where the details of the `..' depends on how `begin' constructs command-continuations 08:56:18 (lambda (_) (begin-cont 3)), yes 08:56:29 (i don't recall whether r5rs insists on command-continuations in `begin' to always accept exactly one result ..) 08:57:03 the only continuations that may accept more than one value are those created with call-with-values 08:57:18 Def [n=joe@71.238.45.45] has joined #scheme 08:57:18 anyway, he is explicitely calling the continuation, not "going there because 2 has returned" 08:57:29 zbigniew : yes, but may `begin' call `call-with-values' ? 08:57:30 kind of curious sometimes what this "everything is a continuation" stuff helps 08:58:12 I mean I'd just execute 1 2 and 3 sequentially, and not worry about saving their continuation state or anything. 08:58:16 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 08:58:32 but thankfully I'm not a language developer. 08:59:11 (synx : by remembering to execute the `2' and the `3' after the `1', you are saving a "continuation state") 08:59:55 ski_: I would save it as a list of things to execute :p stupid I know 09:00:19 ski_: oh, yes. begin returns the value(s) of the last expression 09:00:28 actually, why is 'cont' undefined the second time around, rather than infinite looping: 09:00:30 rudybot: eval (call-with-values (lambda () (begin 1 (values 2 3))) (lambda (x y) (cons x y))) 09:00:30 zbigniew: ; Value: (2 . 3) 09:00:31 (define cont (call/cc (lambda (k) (pp '(1 2 3)) (call/cc (lambda (k1) (k k1))) (pp '(4 5\ 6)) ))) 09:00:34 (pp cont) (cont 2) 09:01:06 in the following, why is 'cont' undefined the second time around, rather than infinite looping: (define cont (call/cc (lambda (k) (pp '(1 2 3)) (call/cc (lambda (k1) (k k1))) (pp '(4 5\ 6)) ))) (pp cont) (cont 2) 09:01:30 newb12345: "cont"'s continuation is "top level" 09:01:46 or "what's next in the source code" 09:01:58 iirc. 09:02:11 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:02:21 compiled and interpreted versions of your program may behave differently 09:02:22 zbigniew : i thought you were to give as example something like 09:02:24 rudybot: eval (call-with-values (lambda () (begin 1 (values (lambda () (values 1 2 3)) list))) call-with-values) 09:02:24 ski_: ; Value: (1 2 3) 09:02:57 (of which could be said that the `begin' form in some sense calls `call-with-values') 09:05:06 ski_: you got me, i cannot fully appreciate your argument at 3am 09:05:09 *zbigniew* sleeps 09:06:36 newb12345: anyway. You just don't have the slightest idea of how *one* call/cc works. Pointless to explain you how to mix two 09:07:12 just play with one in many places, with many bodies untill you get it 09:07:16 now now, people come here to learn 09:07:19 *zbigniew* really sleeps now 09:09:07 zbigniew: you learn by inductive reasoning. to understand (A + B), please understand A, + and B. 09:10:19 newb12345 : the call `(pp cont)' will cause `cont' to be defined to the result of `(pp '(4 5\ 6))' 09:10:39 er, sorry 09:10:47 the call `(cont 2)' i mean 09:19:27 -!- synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:23:30 http://pastebin.com/m3df2e2f6 09:27:12 kilimanj4ro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 09:27:12 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:28:33 wow, i figured this out now 09:28:34 yay 09:28:41 i should get +10 intelligence for this 09:28:55 as a result, i may now be in the double digit iq range 09:29:56 *ski_* hands newb12345 five orange barrels 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[Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:18:10 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:18:40 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:19:39 dlurf [n=no@80.251.192.2] has joined #scheme 18:20:56 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:21:08 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 18:22:55 Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:28:07 arcfide: you won with createfile? 18:28:07 i just noticed it was you on cls :) 18:28:27 -!- Vaeshir_ [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:32:57 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:38:19 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:38:39 leppie: No, I haven't won yet. 18:38:45 Any help would be appreciated. 18:38:50 I have made progress though. 18:38:51 what you trying to do? 18:38:51 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 18:39:24 saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:40:21 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 18:40:37 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 18:41:28 I have a robot library that is written. Right now, it works on OpenBSD by piping its communications to the bluetooth device (the robot communicates over bluetooth) using rfcom_sppd. 18:41:54 what you trying to do with the com port? 18:42:01 However, since I need to port it to Windows, I need to access a bluetooth COM port. 18:42:07 open it twice? 18:42:31 leppie: Neh, the opening it twice was just the smallest example of a bug that is happening. 18:43:25 At the moment, I am working around that. 18:43:51 sorry, cant really help :( 18:43:56 At first I thought a HANDLE was a file descriptor for windows, but I was informed that it was not, and now I use _hdopen() or _open_osfhandle() to get a POSIX like file descriptor for the file. 18:44:07 Vaeshir_ [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:44:07 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:44:19 However, even then, I can't get anywhere, because I can't seem to successfully write or read anything from the descriptor. 18:47:08 _jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:47:55 -!- |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 18:48:57 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:49:23 cant use use the Bluetooth API rather? 18:49:33 leppie: What bluetooth API? 18:53:36 http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa362932(VS.85).aspx 18:55:28 -!- Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:57:46 dfeuer_ [n=David@pool-71-191-251-77.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:57:58 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless316.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:59:41 Nichibutsu [n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has joined #scheme 19:02:23 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 19:02:55 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:03:38 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 19:04:17 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 19:06:26 choas [n=lars@p5B0DE1C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:09:51 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:10:20 saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:14:26 leppie: That's not going to work. That looks harder than what I am trying to do right now. 19:14:48 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-236.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:14:58 o well :| 19:15:33 geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-75-21-83-157.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:21:57 leppie: However, I solved the crashing problem. I was not using the right calling convention. 19:22:16 leppie: Now I just need to figure out how to make my serial stuff work. 19:22:22 -!- Guest430 is now known as mike_____ 19:22:39 leppie: You don't happen to know the easiest way to turn a HANDLE into a file descriptor, do you? 19:32:09 Mr-Cat_ [n=Mr-Cat_@hg-ro.corbina.net] has joined #scheme 19:32:28 fileno 19:32:51 oh sorry, a Microsoft HANDLE? 19:39:03 *pbusser2* calls the exorcist. 19:39:20 heh 19:39:30 erm, google it... 19:39:35 first hit 19:42:11 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A0FC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:42:19 arcfide: http://www.codeproject.com/KB/files/handles.aspx , in case you did not search correct :) 19:43:39 alexshendi [n=chatzill@dslb-094-217-118-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 19:43:54 amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #scheme 19:45:50 leppie: Yeah, I was hoping for something else. ;-) 19:45:59 leppie: Oh well, I am trying to get it to work. 19:53:26 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-75-21-83-157.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:01:43 karsten_ [n=karsten@dslb-088-072-200-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 20:01:59 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 20:02:11 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 20:08:50 saccade__ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:10:13 -!- dfeuer_ [n=David@pool-71-191-251-77.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:10:24 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:10:25 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:12:32 -!- Vaeshir_ [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:15:52 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A0FC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:17:22 Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:19:06 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-124-113.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 20:25:51 morphir_ [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 20:25:57 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:26:37 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Success] 20:27:27 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 20:29:35 exexex [n=chatzill@85.96.123.92] has joined #scheme 20:31:39 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-235-253.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 20:34:25 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-124-113.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:39:03 -!- saccade__ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:39:41 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@95.34.27.156.customer.cdi.no] has quit ["raise Hand, 'wave'"] 20:41:10 saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:41:30 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:44 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054806.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:43:15 -!- morphir_ [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [] 20:44:00 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 20:50:48 -!- tr3 [n=tr3@host28-43-dynamic.183-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:53:09 tizoc` [n=user@r190-135-9-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 20:53:58 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-222-97.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 20:54:20 -!- tizoc` is now known as tizoc_ 20:54:24 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-63-25.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:56:01 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 20:57:48 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 20:58:26 tizoc` [n=user@r190-135-27-182.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 20:58:56 -!- tizoc` is now known as tizoc_ 20:59:00 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-9-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:59:02 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 21:02:52 -!- jmo- [n=jmo-@83.233.243.145] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:04:17 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-203-69.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:10:32 louzer_ [n=edwin@nusnet-223-104.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 21:10:32 -!- louzer [n=edwin@nusnet-223-104.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:15:24 -!- gorki [n=chatzill@p54A7E533.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.5/2008121622]"] 21:15:33 morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 21:16:22 Does any r6rs implementation implement pattern matching? 21:17:13 Yes, after you load . 21:17:45 Mr-Cat_: just curious: why did you jump on the r6rs bandwagon: was it hegemony, peer-pressure, ...? 21:18:29 iVaeshir [n=ivaeshir@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 21:19:33 -!- pizza_ [n=pizza@poipu/supporter/pizza-milkshake] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:19:55 klutometis: technical merit? 21:20:03 compatibility? 21:20:45 klutometis: In fact, I'm just trying to understand, which scheme subset portable and which is not 21:20:58 -!- iVaeshir [n=ivaeshir@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:21:27 s/portable/is portable/ 21:22:06 And how do different implementations differ 21:23:24 It's still confusing for me, that each implementation has its... well... flavor 21:24:58 I.e. plt's docs suggest using pattern matching 'form' that is not supported by chicken, and tag the 'form', that is supported bu chicken, as old 21:25:28 There is no standard for pattern matching. There are a number of different libraries for it. 21:25:53 synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:27:17 Riastradh: Yes, I've already found out (btw, thanks for the link). That's confusing too 21:27:47 It's not much different from having a number of different, say, SMTP libraries, or GUI libraries. Mostly they serve different purposes. 21:28:17 pizza_ [n=pizza@66.152.246.202] has joined #scheme 21:29:43 -!- Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:31:25 Riastradh: Maybe you're right. But still it seems to me that much of scheme libraries and programs are implementation-specific. 21:31:49 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 21:31:52 Though, there are not many languages, that have really "interchangeable" implementations. 21:31:54 Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:35:32 But scheme has not only several not very compatible implementations, but two not very compatible specs, that are in common use 21:36:07 Well, that's just my impression of scheme after about 6 months of using it. 21:37:24 Many interesting things cannot currently be implemented portably, whether you have moved to R6RS or not. 21:38:06 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:38:17 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 21:38:57 -!- pizza_ [n=pizza@66.152.246.202] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:39:09 pizza_ [n=pizza@66.152.246.202] has joined #scheme 21:40:35 slom_ [n=slom@pD9EB7950.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 21:42:09 -!- louzer_ [n=edwin@nusnet-223-104.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [] 21:42:47 Btw, does anybody know, why wasn't pattern matching included in r6rs? 21:43:43 Seems, there is no such srfi either 21:43:50 Mr-Cat_: bc/ its just a macro away 21:44:11 and there are different match packages ... 21:44:25 at least two which are quite different, afaik 21:44:36 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:44:48 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 21:45:05 It is not clear that any one choice of pattern matching abstraction is generally preferable. 21:45:11 Quite the opposite is clear, indeed. 21:45:22 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:47:02 Still, r6rs incorporates, say, records which also have different implementaions 21:47:59 Or do I overestimate the usefullness of pattern matching in scheme? 21:48:06 well records can not be provided simply as a library 21:48:15 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 21:48:19 pattern matching can 21:49:17 I think instead you underestimate the diversity in approaches to pattern matching. 21:49:24 -!- regulate [n=pakmei@notchill.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:49:33 regulate [i=regulate@notchill.com] has joined #scheme 21:49:40 Records are a low-level stratum on which one can readily build more elaborate abstractions. 21:49:53 -!- pizza_ [n=pizza@66.152.246.202] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:50:05 pizza_ [n=pizza@66.152.246.202] has joined #scheme 21:50:16 Many different approaches to pattern matching have no such common ground. 21:50:56 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:51:08 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 21:51:23 there exists the psyntax library, and yet syntax-case was still mandated in r6rs 21:52:05 Syntax is a special domain for pattern matching. 21:53:13 Riastradh: Well, before starting to learn scheme, I had some background in erlang and nemerle. Those didn't discuss different approaches, but just offered a tool and that was convenient... 21:53:26 and...? 21:54:19 psyntax integrates with the evaluator/library system 21:54:42 and libraries where the top goal for r6rs ... so that makes sense 21:54:43 (...yes, there's much more to SYNTAX-CASE than just pattern matching.) 21:55:16 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Client Quit] 21:55:37 So, Is the absence of matching in scheme specs just a consequence of disagreement on how matching should look (though, the only matching approach, I've seen is that from chicken and plt - can anyone provide me a link to a different one please?) or the absence of need of pattern matching in real-world scheme apps? 21:55:54 -!- mike_____ [n=m@dslb-092-074-002-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:56:11 It's not a matter of disagreement. There is no generally best approach to pattern matching. 21:56:18 Mr-Cat_: search for UI-match 21:56:53 For example, I could use foof's MATCH, which is convenient for working with simple list structures and which simplifies writing a large collection of COND clauses. 21:57:11 Mr-Cat_: http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/macros.html#first-class-macros 21:58:10 (Um, that article is wrong and confused.) 21:58:57 When I'm working with foof's MATCH, I can't create a new data structure and tell MATCH how to pattern-match on it, however. 21:59:15 (The same is true in Erlang, ML, and Haskell -- there is a fixed set of structures for which patterns exist.) 21:59:46 -!- Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:59:49 Oleg wrong? never! (I've never had the chance to try it, it looked interesting though) 21:59:55 Foof's MATCH also requires that every pattern be statically written at the place where the matching occurs. Thus I can't incrementally update a database of rules. Here's an example of such a database of rules: 22:00:50 22:00:52 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/auf55j 22:02:00 With a large database of rules such as that, it is easy for the semantics of the database to be sensitive to the order in which the rules occur. 22:02:37 [To be fair, you can match against data structures created with define-record or define-record-type] 22:03:07 So even if we defined DEFINE-RULE to basically run (SET! STATEMENT-RULES (LET ((SR STATEMENT-RULES)) (LAMBDA (X) (MATCH X ( ) (ELSE (SR X], our database might not work very well, and we might have very obscure bugs that depend on the order in which we write the DEFINE-RULE forms. 22:03:51 zbigniew, that's not true in general. It's true in Chicken. But even so, records are one of a fixed set of structures for which foof's MATCH provides patterns. 22:05:39 In order to make our rule database insensitive to the order of the DEFINE-RULE forms, we might want to organize the patterns so that we can lexicographically order them by specificity. That restricts the set of patterns that we can use, though; arbitrary predicates, which foof's MATCH allows us to insert into our patterns, cannot generally be ordered by specificity. 22:07:36 Riastradh: I know, that there is no silver bullet. And I also understand, that simple solutions don't work in complex cases (like in your example)/ But still, there usually is a typical usecase, that covers a considerable percent of programmer's need. I.e. syntax-rules (that's just an example, I don't mean, that it also does some matching) is not omnipotent, but it's suitable for many common cases and still relatively simple. So, If a similar (similar 22:09:32 Riastradh: Btw, your example looks more like a knowledge base, not a pattern matching usecase. It seems to be worth a logic-oriented DSL, something like prolog... :) 22:10:34 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:11:18 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:12:19 There is no `typical' use case for pattern matching. SYNTAX-RULES (or SYNTAX-CASE) is a very specific use case, and it is deficient in several respects. (For example, try to express a pattern for LET that requires the left-hand sides of the bindings to be names.) 22:13:19 There's no unification in the rule database I mentioned; it's very straightforward pattern matching. 22:13:43 (match x ((let (((? identifier? name) value) ...) body) #t)) 22:13:58 Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:14:04 Express using SYNTAX-RULES, slom_, not using Wright's / foof's MATCH. 22:14:17 I think there's a hack that allows you to do that 22:14:28 But it wasn't designed to :) 22:14:32 Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-70-250-154-209.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:14:32 There is a hack by which it can be done, but it's not straightforward. 22:15:33 It is also not expressible solely in a SYNTAX-RULES pattern. 22:16:19 Riastradh: But how it comes, that many languages have a common pattern matching usecase and scheme does not? 22:16:35 You can see some of the hoops through which one must jump to check such things in . 22:17:16 Mr-Cat_, because their designers were happier than Scheme's with inflexible, inextensible languages. A Lisp is a toolkit for building languages. 22:17:40 riastradh: you *can* check for identifiers, so it *should* be possible in pure syntax-rules 22:17:45 not? 22:18:11 There is no SYNTAX-RULES pattern that matches only if a subterm is a name. 22:18:44 It's odd that MATCH never got standardized in a SRFI, though 22:19:14 sjaaman: I noticed that too 22:19:28 Are you volunteering to write one, sjamaan? Be aware that if you do, there will be many discussions about the notation, extensibility, and general applicablity of pattern matching, just as I discussed here. 22:19:33 Strange, that something like records happened to be 22:19:45 Records cannot be implemented in a portable macro. 22:20:47 Riastradh: Does not, for example, MIT's define-datatype have a portable implementation? 22:21:01 I don't know what `MIT's DEFINE-DATATYPE' is. 22:21:02 Well, I might be mistaken... 22:21:02 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:21:14 Riastradh: match-check-identifier in Alex Shins match 22:21:24 is that not what you want? 22:21:28 There is no portable way, short of SRFI 9's DEFINE-RECORD-TYPE, to create disjoint types. 22:21:38 slom_, please read carefully what I wrote. 22:22:17 slom_, why does the existence of MATCH-CHECK-IDENTIFIER in foof's MATCH, or SYNTACTIC-NAME? in (my) foof-loop, not contradict my assertion? 22:22:47 because it's not *one* pattern, but recursive macro calls? 22:22:47 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 22:22:53 Yes. 22:23:13 got it :) 22:23:18 Riastradh: define-datatype - I mean a kind of records that is used in EoPL for example 22:23:44 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 22:23:44 Does DEFINE-DATATYPE create disjoint types? 22:24:13 If I knew what 'disjoint types' is, I could answer your question 22:24:14 (The term `disjoint type' has a precise meaning explained in the R5RS.) 22:24:40 *Mr-Cat_* opens r5rs and reads 22:25:29 But I guess, the answer would be 'no' 22:26:40 forcer [n=forcer@e179194017.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 22:27:24 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:27:35 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:28:05 *Mr-Cat_* thinks, that he understood, what disjointness of types is 22:30:24 Well, now I'm surprised, that scheme has some specs at all :) 22:32:16 What's that supposed to mean? 22:33:36 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:33:44 So, I'm working on a parser and using a concept similar to parser combinators; which require backup. Is there a good way to backup a character stream without having to manually unget every char on failure? 22:33:48 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:33:58 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-222-97.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:34:23 Record your own buffer. 22:35:19 It's not the technical aspect that a problem, so much as I am trying to fit it in so that not every parser needs to worry about it 22:36:00 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DE1C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:36:13 Are you concerned with making your parsers fast, or do you care only about space safety? 22:36:41 If I cared about speed for this specific application I wouldn't be using parser combinators. 22:37:08 Consider using , then, or at least stealing ideas from it. 22:37:22 allotrope [n=allotrop@c-67-164-201-125.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:37:52 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-127-13.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [] 22:38:14 Thanks, looking into it 22:38:28 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-127-13.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 22:39:03 -!- allotrope [n=allotrop@c-67-164-201-125.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has left #scheme 22:39:24 sjaaman: Nm. I don't think, there is much point in insisting, that in many srfis people came to an agreement with many complex things, like multithreading, but they still didn't come to an agreement with pattern matching. I think, I'll return to that question in 20 years (or more), when I have enough experiens to argue with Riastradh on such stuff. :) 22:39:42 automejja [n=edwin@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 22:39:47 I don't think I'd call SRFI 8 `agreement on multithreading'. 22:39:51 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:39:51 s/experiens/experience/ 22:39:51 SRFI 18, even. 22:40:02 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:40:12 How many Scheme systems actually support it? I'm aware of two. 22:40:50 I think it's better to ask, how much scheme systems support multithreading at all... 22:40:59 More than two. 22:41:00 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Client Quit] 22:41:06 Hm... 22:41:09 heh 22:41:42 -!- automejja [n=edwin@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 22:41:44 Mr-Cat_: I think that most of the Scheme world agrees to disagree 22:42:25 I hope my point is not lost that the issue of pattern matching is not a matter of disagreement. 22:42:42 Riastradh: It is not lost 22:42:50 Indeed 22:43:55 -!- forcer [n=forcer@e179194017.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:44:02 Well, maybe I'm too used to languages with a single dictating designer 22:44:04 For example, there was much disagreement about the design of a condition system, and there have been at least four SRFIs claiming that territory. All four differ from what one finds in the R6RS, which I think is still badly designed. That's a matter of disagreement. 22:44:58 Mr-Cat_: A lot of languages have only one defining implementation. There simply isn't anyone around to argue :) 22:45:11 (There are also similar issues of orthogonality in condition systems (does one use the same condition system by which CAR signals an error if you pass it 3, as one uses to deliver keyboard interrupts and other asynchronous signals?), but disagreement is still more of an issue in the design of condition systems than in the design of pattern matching.) 22:45:16 And because there's no spec it's hard to make a compatible other version 22:46:02 Vaeshir_ [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:46:08 sjaaman: For example? 22:46:25 louzer [n=edwin@nusnet-180-89.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 22:46:42 python, ruby, java 22:46:53 (though Java might have a spec, I'm not sure there) 22:47:30 sjaaman: Well, python has several implementations... 22:47:39 So does Ruby 22:47:44 But not for a long time 22:48:01 Riastradh: cndition system - you mean the one from r6rs-standard libraries-7.2? 22:48:07 the python spec is called CPython 22:48:16 -!- Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:48:23 ;) 22:48:32 slom_: Exactly my point :) 22:48:34 Yes, Mr-Cat_, that's one. 22:48:45 sjamaan: I know 22:49:16 You'll find a similar one in SRFI 34, another similar one in SRFI 18, (possibly yet another in the `real-time' multithreading SRFI), and yet another one in another SRFI, perhaps 20 or so. 22:49:16 still no spec might be better than a bad spec ... 22:49:19 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:49:53 see eg. the 3(?) implementations of the r6rs library system .... 22:50:19 And in SRFI 35 you'll find a mechanism for describing conditions, and it wouldn't surprise me if it were different from the one you'll find in the R6RS. 22:50:48 *Riastradh* vanishes. 22:52:56 Thanks all... 22:54:15 Hope, I was not too annoying 22:55:21 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-196-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 22:55:51 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:56:02 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:56:31 -!- alexshendi [n=chatzill@dslb-094-217-118-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:59:23 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Client Quit] 23:00:05 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 23:01:26 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-134-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:06:03 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 23:08:11 -!- slom_ [n=slom@pD9EB7950.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:11:28 -!- louzer [n=edwin@nusnet-180-89.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [] 23:12:27 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 23:14:52 melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 23:16:08 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054806.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:22:57 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 23:27:30 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 23:30:38 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:31:01 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:33:21 ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #scheme 23:41:44 -!- Nichibutsu [n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has quit [] 23:42:32 -!- Vaeshir_ [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:43:01 Riastradh: when you unvanish, you should look at the extensibility features of the plt pattern matcher 23:43:25 it would allow you to do what I think you want with `define-rule' 23:43:52 see: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/match.html#(form._((lib._scheme/match..ss)._define-match-expander)) 23:44:46 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-235-253.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:47:49 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 23:54:34 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 23:55:41 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:56:23 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:57:03 morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme