00:00:38 -!- nw__ [n=nw@ckc-109-118.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has left #scheme 00:00:49 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-69.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:03:31 -!- wjlroe [n=will@93-97-171-163.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has left #scheme 00:09:47 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 00:13:01 gaja [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 00:17:32 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:26:41 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE8BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:30:44 Eekdacat [i=Eekdacat@cpe-74-70-17-78.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:32:33 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:42:09 newb12345 [n=x@DNab434dee.Stanford.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:42:20 is there a r5rs way to output a fixnum/integer with 2 decimal places? 00:45:27 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76.205.144.51] has joined #scheme 00:46:45 newb12345: Not that I think you will like. Implementations have their own methods, which all work somewhat well, but if you just want to handle decimals at the end of a fixnum: (display int port) (display ".00" port) .... 00:48:57 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:49:43 -!- ventonegro [n=alex@189-94-51-196.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:01:33 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 01:01:47 troter [n=troter@nurikabe.timedia.co.jp] has joined #scheme 01:04:34 tizoc` [n=user@r190-135-52-178.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 01:07:05 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:07:57 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 01:10:53 jimi_hendrix [n=Jimi_Hen@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #scheme 01:14:09 amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-81-104.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 01:18:07 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:18:41 -!- newb12345 [n=x@DNab434dee.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:19:36 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Success] 01:21:16 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:21:29 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 01:21:38 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 01:24:09 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-9f8efba8c893f046] has joined #scheme 01:24:28 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-55-248.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:25:17 is there a way to remove elements from a list in scheme without having to flatten it afterward 01:26:39 i've been doing (define (rem x l) (map (lambda (y) (if (= x y) () l)) list)), and then just flattening it 01:26:51 should be () y* 01:27:25 Eekdacat: http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-1/srfi-1.html#remove 01:27:39 rudybot: eval (filter even? '(1 2 3 4 5)) 01:27:42 johnnowak: ; Value: (2 4) 01:27:49 or http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-1/srfi-1.html#Deletion 01:28:24 incubot: (delete 'a '(a b c)) 01:28:24 (b c) 01:28:37 remove works better in this case 01:28:57 Eekdacat: good; but now you know both 01:29:18 if you need it, chances are srfi-1 has it 01:31:07 what about if the list is made up of sublists 01:31:32 like a set of (x y) points, and you want to remove everything along a certain x passed in 01:32:05 oh right lambda 01:33:01 Eekdacat: are you talking association lists, or lists of arbitrary depth? 01:35:13 underspecified [n=eric@naist-wavenet126-121.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 01:36:09 association 01:37:22 (remove (lambda(z) (if (= (car z) v) #t #f)) l) 01:40:45 rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #scheme 01:42:52 it expects a procedure at the end 01:44:22 ok now it runs but it doesn't work 01:44:44 Eekdacat: http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-1/srfi-1.html#alist-delete 01:44:54 or roll your own with REMOVE and lambda 01:45:40 need to delete by value too 01:47:01 type ((a b) c), with x y z being passed in, delete if (and (= z c) (or (= a x) (= b y))) 01:50:32 underspecified_ [n=eric@naist-wavenet126-121.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 01:51:17 -!- underspecified [n=eric@naist-wavenet126-121.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:08:49 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:09:38 -!- Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit ["brb"] 02:14:04 Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 02:18:30 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:21:11 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 02:23:55 -!- rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:25:34 karsten_ [n=karsten@dslb-088-072-200-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 02:25:59 hi 02:32:30 i'm having trouble with macros in plt scheme :) 02:32:44 what i'm trying is this: 02:33:00 karsten_ pasted "macro problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74843 02:33:46 i guess there's some detail about using macros in macros that i didn't get, but i'm not even sure where to look for a solution 02:33:54 kraant [n=kraant@CPE-58-161-128-2.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 02:45:24 Probably you meant for MAPPING->DISPATCH-URLS to return a syntax object containing an invocation of INCLUDE-AT/RELATIVE-TO. 02:45:50 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:46:42 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:47:59 hm, well, no, the idea is to open the matched files, do some processing on the syntax contained in them, and return that syntax 02:48:46 and the general question would be: why are the bindings available in mapping->dispatch-urls not available to include-at/relative-to (or any other macro)? 02:49:24 or is it just not possible to call other macros, and i actually do need to return the call to the other macro? 02:50:54 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:50:57 Well, in that case, you could try expanding the aforementioned syntax object. Or look for a procedure that computes the expansion of INCLUDE-AT/RELATIVE-TO. 02:56:01 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:58:36 saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-23-56.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:59:56 well, for that to work, i would somehow have to make my parameter available for include-at/relative-to, wouldn't i? 03:05:18 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A093F.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:05:48 (expand... #`(include-at/relative-to #,pathname ...) ...) 03:07:10 hmm, am i doing something wrong with remove 03:08:08 incubot: (remove (lambda(z) (if (= 2 z) #t #f)) `(1 2 3 4)) 03:08:08 (1 3 4) 03:08:26 no that works 03:09:45 incubot: (remove (lambda(z) (if (= 2 (cadr z)) #t #f)) `((a 1) (b 2) (c 2))) 03:09:45 ((a 1)) 03:10:08 The expression (IF (= 2 (CADR Z)) #T #F) can be simplified. 03:10:11 Hint: What does = return? 03:11:22 once again, the code works here but not in the program 03:11:33 Be specific, then, about what doesn't work. 03:11:45 it would return (a 1) (b 2) (c 2) regardless 03:12:57 i'm using "pretty big" 03:13:59 would that make a difference in the way remove works 03:14:35 Probably. Is REMOVE in the `Pretty Big' language (which, I believe, is now considered `legacy') supposed to name the procedure specified by SRFI 1? 03:16:06 remove is defined 03:16:19 i just tried (remove even? `(1 2 3)), didn't work 03:19:42 (filter pred list) is 03:20:00 Did you look up the documentation on the `Pretty Big' language? 03:21:17 riastradh: oh, that seems to work. thanks for the hint! 03:21:38 i don't know, i just did filter (not pred) list 03:21:58 Look up the documentation so that you have a clearer idea of what is supposed to happen. 03:22:31 http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=%22pretty+big%22+scheme+documentation&fp=3WTwdsC3GPc 03:22:33 -mr-slave:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/d5lqy2 03:22:33 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/d5lqy2 03:24:51 Let me step back for a moment. Why are you using the Pretty Big language? 03:25:44 *offby1* calls the Identity Police on mr-slave 03:25:53 That's the one, sir: he claims to be mine, but isn't! 03:25:57 Arrest him. 03:25:59 (Here's the documentation for the REMOVE procedure that you're using: .) 03:36:52 say, is there any reason to use ' over ` even if you're not splicing stuff into it? 03:40:23 It expresses your intent more clearly. 03:43:13 i have a case where (f a) returns b, f has to run multiple times with different a which can be generated with map/fold and has to determine the maximum 03:43:42 Eek! Da cat! 03:44:03 i was thinking about setting max to 0 by default, if b is bigger, make max b and continue until all possibilities are tried 03:44:05 I have a case where I can fit two changes of clothes -and- my laptop. It's a pretty good case. 03:44:15 that's foldl right 03:44:25 sure 03:44:35 I'd make the default be the first item in the list. 03:44:37 Can't go wrong there. 03:44:45 'Course you'll have to special-case the empty list 03:44:52 ... or will you? 03:45:11 Can it fit your other laptop, offby1? 03:45:16 not really. 03:45:26 Not even if that laptop curls up tightly? 03:45:42 well, no; it's more likely to just jump back out 03:45:52 Well, by its own volition, not by your putting it there. 03:46:08 oddly my other laptop, unlike most, isn't interested in crawling inside of things. 03:46:22 Although I haven't actually tried the shopping-bag-on-its-side trick 03:46:24 (foldl (lambda(x) (if (> (f a) (previous max)) a (previous max) `(some list of options) 0) 03:47:01 (f a) will always be > 0 for at least one in the set 03:47:01 something like that .... 03:47:14 yeah but previous max 03:47:31 and foldl wants a proc that takes _two_ arguments, not just one 03:48:00 x y, (f x), y for previous max 03:48:03 right 03:48:58 offby1 pasted "eekdacat" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74850 03:49:10 That'll croak if the list is empty, but I think it's the right idea 03:49:21 Use REDUCE, not FOLD, in that case. 03:50:23 aha 03:52:45 actually has to be 3 args 03:53:20 foldl (lambda (x y z) (stuff)) `(1 2 3) `(1 2 3) 0) 03:54:36 karsten_: to process the input you should use `include/reader' or `include-at/relative-to/reader' -- both accept a reader function that is used to parse the file. 03:55:12 eli: at some point I should change "Eric Hanchrow's bot" to ... something else 03:55:18 mr-slave: who made you? 03:55:19 offby1: ? 03:55:33 karsten_: and in general it is much better to generate an `include/...' syntax instead of manually expanding one to be post-tweaked. 03:55:38 fess up 03:55:39 jeezus christ 03:55:48 -!- mr-slave [n=luser@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:56:03 *rudybot* throws offby1's dentures at mbishop 03:56:07 offby1: Here, I keeled eet. 03:56:15 awwww 03:56:21 you have commits you haven't yet pushed! 03:56:43 I didn't actually intend to keep it up, just until you updated rudybot. 03:56:50 i know what i need imperatively, for i = 1 to n, for j = 1 to n, if f(a[i][j]) > max imax = i, jmax = j, max = a[i][j], then at the end return (imax, jmax) 03:56:59 I think you got everything. 03:57:28 plain recursion is better i'm guessing 03:57:42 Eekdacat: er, no: foldl takes a proc of arity two. That's just part of its definition. 03:58:55 Eekdacat: rule of thumb for rewriting loops as HOFs. if you only need one value from the list at a time, use map. if you need to operate on adjacent values, use a fold. 03:59:23 I'd write that as nested maps 03:59:29 -!- criminy [n=criminy@adsl-34-32-141.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:59:43 the problem is determining that max 04:00:35 ozy`: Your rule of thumb is broken. 04:00:58 eli: it breaks horribly in a few cases. 04:01:11 that's why it's not exactly an ISO spec 04:02:00 hence... you know... "rule of thumb" 04:02:10 The right way to distinguish between `fold*' and `map' is to decide if you want a list of results or a "single" result. 04:02:31 That makes a nice reference to the pointwise operation that `map' is actually doing. 04:04:43 well the goal is that f is a heuristic function 04:06:51 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:08:48 offby1: I've done a pretty ridiculous thing, but it looks like you have all the patches I made. 04:09:00 rudybot: init r5rs 04:09:01 eli: your sandbox is ready 04:09:08 rudybot: eval (cons 1 2) 04:09:09 eli: ; Value: {1 . 2} 04:09:13 rudybot: init 04:09:13 eli: your sandbox is ready 04:09:15 rudybot: eval (cons 1 2) 04:09:16 eli: ; Value: {1 . 2} 04:09:19 rudybot: init scheme 04:09:22 eli: your sandbox is ready 04:09:25 rudybot: eval (cons 1 2) 04:09:25 eli: ; Value: (1 . 2) 04:09:51 offby1: Yeah, I think that this was the last major feature. 04:09:53 rudybot: eval (define matrix '((8 2 0) (3 5 9) (1 4 7))) 04:10:35 can map be multidimensional 04:10:39 rudybot: eval (for/fold ([max #f] [x #f] [y #f]) ([row (in-list matrix)] [i (in-naturals)] #:when #t [item (in-list row)] [j (in-naturals)]) (if (or (not max) (< max item)) (values item i j) (values max x y))) 04:10:40 eli: ; Value: 9 04:10:41 eli: ; Value#2: 1 04:10:42 eli: ; Value#3: 2 04:11:22 Eekdacat: if you nest it, yeah 04:11:28 oh ok 04:11:46 after rereading your thing I dunno if my initial thoughts were correct... 04:12:07 rudybot: later tell offby1 But one more feature that should be easy to add is the "later tell" thing (I made the sightings generalized to make that simple). 04:12:07 minion: memo for offby1: eli told me to tell you: But one more feature that should be easy to add is the "later tell" thing (I made the sightings generalized to make that simple). 04:12:14 Remembered. I'll tell offby1 when he/she/it next speaks. 04:12:29 you -can- use a map if you use set! to modify local variables 04:13:36 hmm, but that makes lists of lists 04:13:44 a list of lists* 04:14:00 I'm trying to work out how to decompose this for a fold 04:16:55 eli: huhm, that reader would be read-syntax with some additional macros 04:18:34 ozy`: If you use `set!', then you should use `for-each'. 04:18:35 eli: how would i specifiy special processing rules for the included file using your second suggestion (which seems to be what riastradh suggested)? 04:18:53 karsten_: you just want some additional macros? 04:19:16 eli: yes, but only visible in the included file 04:19:43 So the included file has the usual sexpr syntax? 04:19:50 eli: yes 04:20:27 So why would you want macros to apply just for the included text? That seems like an odd requirement that goes against the whole purpose of `include'. 04:21:03 because the included files are "special" :) 04:21:21 Can you describe how they're special? 04:21:36 i can try 04:22:05 did you play around with the dispatch package from untyped? 04:22:12 No. 04:22:58 ok. it's basically a dispatching mechanism that routes urls with parameters to special functions called controllers 04:23:20 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:23:22 OK. 04:23:45 (That much I know, BTW, I just didn't use it.) 04:24:03 the dispatch map is defined like this: (define-site/provide foo (((url "/bla/" (integer-arg)) bla-handler))) 04:24:41 now, the idea of my macro is to gather the urls in this map from different files, where each file describes urls for a single page 04:25:32 I'm not following that. 04:25:42 You want the *urls* to be listed in different files? 04:26:29 well, let's say i'm hosting two different web sites in one installation, foo.com and bar.com. then i'd want to put the url mappings for foo.com in web/pages/foo.com/mappings.ss, and for bar.com in web/pages.bar.com/mappings.ss 04:26:37 minion: has anyone left any messages for me, perchance? 04:26:38 does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 04:26:38 offby1, memo from rudybot: eli told me to tell you: But one more feature that should be easy to add is the "later tell" thing (I made the sightings generalized to make that simple). 04:26:38 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:27:09 rudybot: later tell eli that the current implementation not only works nicely, but is funny to boot 04:27:09 minion: memo for eli: offby1 told me to tell you: that the current implementation not only works nicely, but is funny to boot 04:27:10 Remembered. I'll tell eli when he/she/it next speaks. 04:27:27 *eli* tortures minion 04:27:46 ...both directly and through bots. 04:27:46 eli, memo from rudybot: offby1 told me to tell you: that the current implementation not only works nicely, but is funny to boot 04:28:04 offby1: funny? 04:28:17 Ah you mean the current non-implementation... 04:28:54 I really didn't mean to abuse minion like that. 04:29:54 karsten_: Using `include/*' to solve this doesn't seem to be like a good thing to try before you ask on the mailing list. 04:30:28 karsten_: The Untyped people have invested a lot of efforts in this thing, and I'd be surprised if they don't have an answer. 04:31:15 :) 04:31:22 karsten_: And the least that they'll have is some procedural way to specify these url mappings -- which will make it easy to write a file that pulls out two chunks of mappings from two site directories and combines them. 04:33:47 eli: huhm 04:34:16 aujgoljkf [n=awefawe@host100.190-137-19.telecom.net.ar] has joined #scheme 04:34:37 Indeed. 04:35:17 You are trying to use a very heavy gun. 04:44:59 -!- Pegazus [n=awefawe@host100.190-137-19.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:46:27 achermov [n=Achermov@131.247.152.4] has joined #scheme 04:46:49 maybe. but it would enable some fancy macro magic if it worked. 04:46:51 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:48:11 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:51:51 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:51:54 http://pastebin.ca/1326899 . I'm trying exercise 1.7 from SICP. A square root function. Why does (sqrt) not return anything when I call it with an argument? I am confused... 04:52:24 Is GUESS a procedure? Can you call it as if it were one? 04:52:37 guess is an argument 04:52:48 What kind of value is it? 04:53:03 number. Floating point, usually. 04:53:11 Can you call a floating-point value as if it were a procedure? 04:53:16 rudybot: eval (let ((x 1.2345)) (x)) 04:53:17 Riastradh: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: 1.2345 (no arguments) 04:53:51 Hm. I get no errors when I call it, though... let me see real quick... 04:54:00 What Scheme system are you using? 04:54:28 MIT/GNU 04:55:14 I just changed line 10 to guess. No parentheses. Still no sugar. 04:55:37 you mixed up the > and < comparisons 04:55:58 oh, no, you didn't :) 04:56:07 Yeah, I was about to real confused there... 04:56:10 achermov, how are you running this? In Edwin? 04:56:15 Yep 04:56:26 Check the *scheme* buffer. Is it asking you whether you want to enter the debugger? 04:56:30 is there any way to make nested map (map (map)) return a list of elements instead of a list of lists 04:56:35 flatten isn't an option 04:56:47 has to be an association list 04:56:47 Nope. No debugger option. 04:57:09 And, Eekdacat, I have no idea what that means. 04:57:14 Is it spiking the CPU? 04:57:41 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 04:58:10 Hm. I don't know. Let me check. 04:58:32 i need an alternative to map within a map, currently i'm getting stuff like (((a b) 1) ((c d) 2)) ((e f) 3) ((g h) 4))) 04:58:46 uh except 1 more parentheses 04:59:00 ((((a b) 1) ((c d) 2)) ((e f) 3) ((g h) 4)))) 04:59:19 when what i want is 04:59:25 (((a b) 1) ((c d) 2) ((e f) 3) ((g h) 4))) 05:00:07 Well, Riastradh, Task Manager is claiming 100% CPU usage, but the machine isn't MOVING as though it were at 100% usage. 05:00:49 oh, i just put it in (apply append (stuff)) and it worked 05:01:25 achermov, interrupt the evaluation with `C-c C-c' or `C-c C-u' at the REPL. Read your code carefully, and perhaps try tracing it or stepping through it. (Or interrupt with `C-c C-b' and enter the debugger if you're comfortable with that.) Check for infinite loops. 05:04:15 achermov: what is (sqrt-iter (average (/ 2 1) guess) x) supposed to do? 05:05:26 Oh shit. That's actually a typo. Let me fix that real quick... 05:05:48 -!- tessier__ [n=treed@wsip-68-15-4-27.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #scheme 05:05:56 http://pastebin.ca/1326904 <- there ya go 05:08:03 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:08:08 now, that version should work 05:08:40 hm... 05:09:09 (at least it works for me) 05:10:17 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176210016.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:10:23 AHA! It works! 05:10:35 Thanks, gents. I'm taking a Lisp course this semester si U;n syre U;kk ve gere nire kater,' 05:10:42 -!- achermov [n=Achermov@131.247.152.4] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:12:36 rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #scheme 05:12:46 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:13:25 hmm, i'm not clear on how to use foldl to determine the max of a list 05:14:15 eeekdacat: start with 0, compare the current element against the accumulator, if the current element is larger, return it, if not, return the accumulator 05:14:44 yeah i get that part 05:16:03 so what's the other part? 05:18:49 (foldl (lambda x y) (if (> x y) x y) 0 l) 05:18:55 with 1 more parentheses 05:19:20 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 05:22:01 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:22:12 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 05:22:16 foof [n=user@clair16.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 05:27:11 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176221117.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:35:22 got it 05:38:14 bc3a62d0c74d9f66 [n=3856a520@S01060016b6da8008.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 05:39:49 -!- aujgoljkf [n=awefawe@host100.190-137-19.telecom.net.ar] has left #scheme 05:41:23 How do I remove the first element in a list? (delete! etc only seem to work on non first) 05:44:13 rudybot: eval (define l (list 1 2 3)) 05:44:23 rudybot: eval (set! l (cdr l)) 05:44:25 rudybot: eval l 05:44:25 *offby1: ; Value: (2 3) 05:44:56 that _sorta_ does it 05:45:03 rudybot: eval (define l (list 1 2 3)) 05:46:43 *eli* had his privacy-awareness fuse blow up. 05:49:06 swalters [i=swalters@65.222.72.3] has joined #scheme 05:49:19 (cadr l) 05:49:27 er 05:49:28 cdr l 05:50:17 *destructively 05:51:27 -!- rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:54:26 gah, "cadr" makes my irc client buzz me :D 05:54:34 cadr 05:54:35 cadr 05:55:18 :D 06:00:27 -!- bc3a62d0c74d9f66 [n=3856a520@S01060016b6da8008.gv.shawcable.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:01:13 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:02:43 bzzt 06:03:48 Indeed. 06:04:29 bc3a62d0c74d9f66 [n=luser@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 06:04:53 bc3a62d0c74d9f66: eval (define l (list 1 2 3)) (cdr l) 06:04:54 *eli: ; Value: (2 3) 06:07:47 impostinator 06:08:06 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@naist-wavenet126-121.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:08:07 underspecified [n=eric@naist-wavenet126-121.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:09:06 rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #scheme 06:15:00 -!- underspecified [n=eric@naist-wavenet126-121.naist.jp] has quit [] 06:22:18 underspecified [n=eric@naist-wavenet126-121.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:23:34 -!- bsmntbombdood_ is now known as bsmntbombdood 06:24:31 -!- rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:25:17 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:27:36 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:29:26 rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #scheme 06:36:21 -!- saccade_ 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quit [] 08:01:08 HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has joined #scheme 08:02:06 whats a good/fun program to implement using pure lambda calculus 08:02:14 i already did factorial and a simple sat solver 08:04:38 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:06:40 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:06:53 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:07:55 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 08:09:36 -!- swalters [i=swalters@65.222.72.3] has quit [] 08:09:59 umis [n=umis@82.193.124.116.ipnet.kiev.ua] has joined #scheme 08:16:49 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c809ABF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 08:34:58 brandelune [n=suzume@pl080.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:36:45 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c809ABF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:40:41 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:45:52 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Success] 08:46:29 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-23-56.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:50:15 jonrafkind: a lambda-calculator, of course! 09:03:37 -!- kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:04:53 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 09:08:09 jmo- [n=jmo-@83.233.243.145] has joined #scheme 09:08:34 -!- HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:31:56 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #scheme 09:43:26 dzhus [n=sphinx@93-80-222-198.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 09:45:13 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:45:16 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has 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has joined #scheme 13:49:09 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 13:52:57 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [] 13:56:14 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:59:11 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:59:25 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:00:05 -!- foof [n=user@clair16.naist.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:00:36 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:02:55 higepon610 [n=taro@FL1-122-133-100-227.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 14:15:50 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 14:16:42 -!- kraant [n=kraant@CPE-58-161-128-2.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:19:06 redline6561 [n=redline@adsl-068-209-019-120.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 14:28:52 jgracin [n=jgracin@93-141-85-37.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 14:34:34 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@adsl-068-209-019-120.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #scheme 14:36:09 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 14:44:01 bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:44:35 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 14:47:55 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 14:54:14 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 14:54:42 -!- pizza_ [n=pizza@66.152.246.202] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:55:09 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [] 15:03:41 ktne [n=ktne@unaffiliated/ktne] has joined #scheme 15:03:45 hello 15:03:59 i want to know how scheme is implemented 15:04:10 is there a good interpreter that i can check? 15:04:12 badly, in most cases 15:04:19 something that is written in C 15:04:50 foof: you mean scheme interpreters are badly implemented? or was that related to previous conversation? 15:05:21 scheme interpreters and scheme compilers are usually implemented badly 15:05:27 ah 15:05:40 i need something that has continuations properly implemented 15:07:02 bc3a62d0c74d9f66, you cannot remove an element of a list in-place in general. You can delete an element from a list by making a new list, and you can reuse the structure of the old list to make the new list. The latter is what DELETE! does. 15:07:02 Riastradh: ? 15:07:31 ktne: You might first want to read something. EoPL gives some good ideas on how scheme is implemented. 15:07:54 EoPL? 15:08:04 well 15:09:15 bc3a62d0c74d9f66, specifically: DELETE and DELETE! will return a list like the one you passed but with the element you passed deleted. DELETE leaves the original list intact; DELETE! destroys the old list. The use of DELETE! is an assertion that you will no longer use the old list. 15:09:15 Riastradh: ? 15:09:38 bc3a62d0c74d9f66, please fix your IRC client and come back when you have done so. 15:09:38 Riastradh: ? 15:09:42 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Riastradh 15:09:50 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-235-220.bos.east.verizon.net] has been kicked from #scheme 15:09:53 -!- Riastradh has set mode -o Riastradh 15:10:28 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 15:10:48 ktne: a book - Essentials of Programming Languages 15:10:56 offby1, you should know this, too, by the way. 15:10:59 Mr-Cat: is it available online? 15:13:14 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@93-138-237-148.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 15:14:26 ktne: Sorry, posted the acronym automatically. Afaik, it's not available online (legally). 15:15:09 rotty_ [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #scheme 15:18:33 Wohoo! TRC Testing now passes most of its tests on Chez. 15:18:43 I mean, TRC Testing works when testing schemantic-web. ;-) 15:18:48 -!- ktne [n=ktne@unaffiliated/ktne] has left #scheme 15:21:52 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 15:22:33 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@93-141-85-37.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:23:49 langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 15:25:18 -!- rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has quit [No route to host] 15:25:23 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [] 15:27:45 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 15:38:01 dlurf [n=no@80.251.192.2] has joined #scheme 15:38:59 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@99.137.203.69] has quit ["School Time!"] 15:43:19 -!- geckosen1tor [n=sean@adsl-68-73-98-69.dsl.dytnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:45:39 Riastradh: the bogus nick was me annoyed at the original bogus nick; but what's the IRC issue it had? 15:45:57 eli: ? 15:46:33 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 15:47:03 geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-73-98-69.dsl.dytnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:47:55 Cheshire: Your point? 15:48:40 *offby1* looks around sleepiliy 15:48:51 tizoc` [n=user@r190-135-33-119.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 15:49:53 Riastradh: "you should know this, too, by the way" -- are you referring to DELETE and DELETE!; or are you referring to EoPL? 15:50:01 (I knew about the latter but not the former) 15:50:28 rudybot: apropos DELETE! 15:50:28 *offby1: no matches found 15:50:39 eli, ah. Sorry, I thought it was a human with an IRC client that automatically answered `?' to any message addressed to it. 15:51:06 that nick _did_ belong to a human last night, but eli impersonated him as soon as he left 15:51:16 offby1, about DELETE and DELETE!, or more generally linear-update operations especially on lists (e.g., APPEND and APPEND!). 15:51:25 yeah 15:51:49 funny, I thought I knew srfi-1 pretty well 15:52:03 rudybot: eval (require srfi/1) 15:52:08 rudybot: eval (define a (list 1 2 3)) 15:52:12 (I was just pissed at the ridiculousness of abusing nicknames for anonymity. Even `anonymous735' would be better.) 15:52:12 rudybot: eval (define b a) 15:52:21 rudybot: eval (delete! 1 a) 15:52:22 *offby1: ; Value: (2 3) 15:52:24 rudybot: eval b 15:52:24 *offby1: ; Value: (1 2 3) 15:52:31 I suspect that would have annoyed the guy last night 15:52:58 It's not specific to SRFI 1, of course. 15:53:06 that is, I suspect he would have wanted to see b 15:53:12 "modified" as well 15:53:22 He would have wanted to see A modified. B is a red herring. 15:53:34 funny, I don't think I ever use delete or delete! 15:53:35 offby1: Actually that doesn't show the expected difference between `delete' and `delete!'. 15:53:44 eli: that wasn't my intent. 15:53:55 The value of A is still a list printed (1 2 3). 15:53:58 I was guessing what whats-his-name from last night would have wanted. 15:54:06 Sorry, I'll go back to hunt for flies now. 15:54:14 Riastradh: that's true. And (if I may continue to speak for the other guy) that's even worse :) 15:54:18 jah [n=jah@232.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 15:56:24 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE45A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:56:27 -!- jah [n=jah@232.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:56:54 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-14-192.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:01:12 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@93-138-237-148.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:06:24 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:21:39 -!- xwl [n=user@221.221.157.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:22:27 -!- synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:32:45 -!- higepon610 [n=taro@FL1-122-133-100-227.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:35:19 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 16:40:41 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl080.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 16:44:24 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:48:37 djjack [n=djjack@cpe-098-026-029-215.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:54:54 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:55:18 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:06:51 aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has joined #scheme 17:09:19 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:13:08 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:14:27 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:18:48 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:21:19 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 17:23:54 pizza_ [n=pizza@poipu/supporter/pizza-milkshake] has joined #scheme 17:29:05 o dear :( 17:29:21 drith [i=drith@94.26.67.214] has joined #scheme 17:30:07 the masters of C# claim lexically scoped closures are not a well understood 17:31:32 leppie: tell them to go back 30 years and talk to sussman 17:31:40 30 years? 17:31:43 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:31:47 more like to 1930!~ 17:32:13 1936 17:34:14 leppie: oh, you mean church 17:34:28 yeah, this stuff comes from lambda caalculus 17:38:23 lexical scope is a myth 17:38:40 the truth is 4 simultaneous dynamic scopes 17:38:53 a wha? 17:39:36 lambda cube 17:40:01 right 17:40:38 leppie: listen to don't microsoft educated stupids!!1! 17:40:45 i dont! 17:42:07 i think the problem is universities teaching C and Java... 17:43:08 leppie failed parody of http://www.timecube.com/ 17:43:24 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 17:44:16 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A18AA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:46:49 people after 4 days 17:46:56 i have a scheme exam 17:47:08 so in the uni there is functional programming too 17:47:09 :) 17:47:28 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:47:34 for me prolog and logic programming is more difficult 17:47:38 just an opinion 17:47:47 i cant recall seeeing anything functional at the uni I went to, but I never did get to 3rd year 17:47:58 why? 17:48:02 it was hard? 17:48:03 I think they might have had prolog 17:48:16 nah, got fed up 17:48:25 long story, not bad 17:48:43 i work programming in java 17:48:56 but this stuff expands my thinking ability 17:49:14 1st year: C 2nd year: Java/ASM/SQL 3rd year: ASM/ ??? 17:49:41 real boring... 17:50:01 -!- Eekdacat [i=Eekdacat@cpe-74-70-17-78.nycap.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 17:50:27 what do you like to learn 17:50:41 my favourite is algorithms analys 17:50:52 but it is fucking hard 17:50:55 alot of math 17:50:57 there 17:55:18 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #scheme 17:57:36 arcfide [n=arcfide@99.137.203.69] has joined #scheme 17:57:45 Does anyone have a matrix manipulation benchmark? 17:58:08 hahaha 17:58:18 Yeah, right, matrix manipulation in Scheme! 17:59:23 gaja_ [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 17:59:44 foof: Hey now... 17:59:46 -!- gaja [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:59:57 foof: Oh, and you said that you were tearing your hair out with something yesterday, didn't you? 18:05:08 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05547F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:05:35 With clever macros (probably macro-defining macros), and a half-decent you can minimize the cost of individual accesses to the matrix. 18:06:38 But most matrix algorithms want nested loops, which is going to be slow in almost all Scheme compilers even if all you're doing is a straight matrix multiplication with fp+ and fp*. 18:07:21 (half-decent compiler) 18:07:27 Well, I'm just trying to compare relative performance of two approaches (maybe three) to matrix representation in a general case. 18:07:31 lol @ timecube, what a nutcase! 18:08:10 And especially for a general matrix interface, allowing n-dimensional matrices, rather than hard coding fixed dimensions. 18:08:59 ... slower and slower... 18:09:15 hint: use foof-loop 18:09:24 foof: I take it you've attempt this before? 18:09:26 It will still be molasses compared to C. 18:09:29 foof: What doyou mean by that? 18:09:43 slow 18:09:55 leppie: I meant the foof-loop comment. 18:11:12 arcfide: actually, sorrt, no time to talk right now... 18:11:31 *arcfide* goes to grab some food. 18:12:52 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-68.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:14:08 jah [n=jah@232.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 18:16:26 Scheme is not that slow for numerics 18:16:28 https://webmail.iro.umontreal.ca/pipermail/mslug/2007-December/000251.html 18:16:28 saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:18:36 they say stalin and bigloo is fast 18:18:44 never tried them though 18:21:47 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:22:05 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:22:22 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 18:29:29 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 18:31:02 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:34:32 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:37:03 leppie: You always see someone on CLS talking about Bigloo and Matrices. 18:38:57 -!- langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:39:06 you also see it's the same guy and he always uses the -Obench option which means compiling probably takes a while :) 18:39:34 leppie: Not to mention his code is very...um...uniquely expressed. 18:40:04 everyone has their own style :) 18:40:16 leppie: Sure. ;-) 18:40:25 -!- ventonegro [n=alex@189-94-33-225.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [] 18:40:28 Some more isolated from the rest of the community than others. 18:41:06 i see no problem with my primitive 2 space indetation scheme :) 18:48:12 NorthStar [i=email@89.180.23.250] has joined #scheme 18:49:39 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 19:01:25 melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 19:06:22 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:08:27 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:11:20 -!- Guest17973 [n=m@dslb-088-066-235-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:11:22 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:12:30 Guest17973 [n=m@dslb-088-066-238-070.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 19:15:05 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:15:53 jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 19:17:03 -!- jah [n=jah@232.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:18:37 jah [n=jah@232.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 19:20:57 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 19:22:44 impomatic [n=John@nat65.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:23:57 hotblack231 [n=jh@p5B0564AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:25:12 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:26:14 mhoran [n=mhoran@vps.matthoran.com] has joined #scheme 19:29:01 tr3 [n=tr3@host28-43-dynamic.183-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 19:31:33 foof: why do you think nested loops are slow in all scheme compilers? 19:32:03 i doubt, for example, that they're particularly slow in larceny or chez or ikarus 19:32:24 chez is commercial and ikarus is still a toy 19:32:32 ... really busy, will rant later, sorry... 19:33:10 ikarus hasn't struck me as toy-like 19:33:16 although i haven't really used it 19:33:22 -!- tr3 [n=tr3@host28-43-dynamic.183-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 19:33:35 tr3 [n=tr3@host28-43-dynamic.183-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 19:39:03 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05547F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:42:07 -!- jah [n=jah@232.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:42:34 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A18AA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:42:46 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 19:43:12 samth: Right now, Ikarus is still a toy. 19:43:26 samth: And, being an user of Chez, I can say that while it is useful, it is not useful to everyone, even if it is fast. 19:43:30 -!- impomatic [n=John@nat65.mia.three.co.uk] has quit ["cw for newbies http://tr.im/xep :-)"] 19:45:50 arcfide: is 'it' chez or ikarus here? 19:46:18 samth: It is Chez. Chez is a great system, imo, but there is a barrier to entry that exists, beyond even just the price. 19:46:26 samth: Some people just don't like using Chez. 19:46:47 yes, well, if there was a scheme system that everyone liked using, life would be a lot different 19:46:48 :) 19:46:54 Indeed. 19:47:01 can anyone explain me why people here hates haskell? 19:47:02 :) 19:47:09 LOL 19:47:12 Who here hates Haskell? 19:47:25 *foof* 19:47:28 I don't hate Haskell, but I wouldn't write my next program in it. 19:47:28 sometimes i read some discussions about it 19:47:42 and some people doesn't really like it 19:47:44 Maybe you should ask foof, tr3, why he hates Haskell. 19:49:03 so it's not true that everyone here hates it? 19:49:05 :) 19:49:16 Riastradh: is there any loss of generality or loss of features in the use of parameter and procedural error systems over the explicit condition ones, and vice versa? 19:49:17 tr3, why do you hate haskell? 19:49:18 Indeed that is not true. 19:49:50 Riastradh: And do you have any corner cases off the top of your head (or thereabouts) that I might have missed when I translated your trc testing code into Chez's error system? 19:49:58 Cheshire: I don't hate it 19:50:00 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:50:01 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:50:05 arcfide, a failure to act generally over classes of conditions. 19:50:10 Cheshire: I don't know Haskell enough to hate it 19:50:20 arcfide, I don't know; I'd have to look at the code to think of how it could go wrong. 19:50:43 I don't suppose you would want to do that, would you, Riastradh? 19:50:44 foof, by the way, I have a suggestion for those times when you have no time to be on IRC: you could just close your IRC client! 19:50:58 I have a few spare moments right now. 19:51:24 I ought to clean my tea service, but I am procrastinating that. 19:51:27 Riastradh: I can email you the file, or you can check it out of CVS. 19:51:48 foof: You can at least mention that you are away in your whois. 19:51:56 foof: ;-) 19:52:00 poor foof 19:52:16 sjamaan: yeah, busy, and getting busted on IRC when he's not even here. 19:52:30 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit ["stupid erc-speak-mode"] 19:52:34 haha 19:52:56 Riastradh: the CVS module is lib/trc-test.ss, but would you prefer an email? 19:53:00 If you make the file available conveniently, I'll take a look. Email, lisppaste, a one-line shell command to fetch it and to pipe it into less(1), a URI which my web browser knows about, &c. 19:54:17 arcfide pasted "Header of trc-test.ss" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74879 19:54:44 Riastradh: I found an obvious bug a while ago, and I haven't really tested it that much. 19:54:54 Slom [n=a@pD9EB678B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:55:10 REPORT-TEST-FAILURE is misindented. 19:55:10 The obvious bug was an infinite loop in my error handlers, but after that, it seems to run okay on your tests for schemantic-web. 19:55:17 Oop! 19:55:20 Hang on... 19:55:20 hehe. 19:55:24 So is WITH-TEST-RESTARTERS. 19:56:16 arcfide annotated #74879 with "Indentation fix, I hope." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74879#1 19:56:29 DEFAULT-ERROR is probably not what you really want. 19:57:06 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-73-98-69.dsl.dytnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:57:23 Riastradh: What *do* I want? 19:57:32 (There's lots of broken indentation. C-x h C-M-\) 19:57:44 (That's `C-M-\', with a literal backslash, sorry.) 19:58:43 RESET-OR-RESTART? is pretty silly. What it does is the job of the debugger. 20:00:05 -!- maodun [n=stopgo@c-76-102-148-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #scheme 20:02:33 Riastradh: RESET-OR-RESTART? may be a little silly, but chez's DEBUG procedure doesn't ask for restarting or reseting, methinks, I would have to kludge a BREAK or something for that, and this was expedient. 20:02:53 Can't you type ((RESET-HANDLER)) or ((RESTART-HANDLER)) at the debugger? 20:03:04 As for the indentation, I think you're probably speaking of my . . . eh, IUisms.... 20:03:45 No, there's indentation (and formatting) that is just wrong; REPORT-TEST, REPORT-TEST-FAILURE, WITH-TEST-NOTIFICATIONS, WITH-TEST-RESTARTERS, &c. 20:04:10 Perhaps your file has some extraneous US-ASCII TABs. 20:04:16 Ack, yes, thanks. 20:06:08 -!- Slom [n=a@pD9EB678B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 20:08:06 Riastradh: As for restarting, the interactive debugger just asks you whether you want to quit and discard the error continuation, or leave the error continuation. 20:08:17 `Leave'? 20:08:39 Riastradh: The default error handler saves the continuation for DEBUG to use. 20:08:52 DEBUG can either discard that continuation or leave it around so that you can invoke DEBUG again. 20:09:07 I don't know if you can "restart" the continuation. 20:09:11 ...so that you can again have the option of discarding the continuation or invoking DEBUG again? 20:09:18 ...so that you can, yet again, have the option of discarding the continuation or invoking DEBUG again? 20:09:28 Hehe, yep. Now you're getting it. 20:09:30 This doesn't seem to be a very fruitful endeavour. 20:09:39 Does the DEBUG procedure do *anything* useful? 20:09:56 It let's you see the error and inspect the continuation. 20:10:11 Well, do you get a REPL? 20:11:29 Riastradh: You can evaluate code inside a continuation, and spawn a new cafe (repl), but the debug procedure doesn't open a REPL. 20:11:44 Then you can invoke ((RESET-HANDLER)) or ((RESTART-HANDLER)), right? 20:11:50 ktne [n=ktne@unaffiliated/ktne] has joined #scheme 20:11:52 Yes. 20:11:54 hello 20:12:03 anyone here who knows where ubm scheme homepage is 20:12:12 So why do you need RESET-OR-RESTART? if you can type nearly the same text for the same effect? 20:12:13 for some reason i can't find it, i'm trying to locate the feature list 20:12:19 I don't know what `ubm scheme' is, ktne. 20:12:34 sorry, umb scheme 20:13:11 Riastradh: Mostly because I was trying to imitate the behavior that I *thought* would happen in the original code. 20:13:37 And because it's a little annoying to go into the inspecter and evaluate the restart command. 20:13:50 What will happen in the original code is that the debugger will provide the option of invoking any available restart(er)s. 20:15:14 This may be by providing a REPL at which one can type (ABORT) or (RETRY). 20:16:03 ktne, out of curiosity, why do you want to know about umb-scheme? 20:16:37 Riastradh: i'm trying to understand a scheme implementation and umb scheme looks simple enough, but i can't find much on it except the source code tar 20:17:47 -!- luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has quit ["Client exiting"] 20:17:58 alexshendi [n=chatzill@dslb-094-218-223-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 20:18:30 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:19:04 ktne: Are you sure, it still has a web-site 20:19:33 the web site appears to contain only a .tar file 20:20:50 anyway, is it worth looking at it? that's what i'm trying to check 20:21:26 Seems, that umb is just somebody's personal project.... Unmantained 20:21:45 well, that wouldn't be such an issue, as long as everything is put in place 20:21:53 is there any other simple to understand implementation/ 20:21:56 ? 20:22:02 Well, I've even never heard of umb before, but I'm a scheme newbie 20:22:56 ktne: Well, you may try to comprehend iron scheme. It's developer - leppie - is often available here, so, you will have somebody to ask questions. 20:23:01 Riastradh: Does your silence mean you have moved on to more interesting things, or that your critical eye hasn't seen anything too glaringly wrong in the behavior of my code? 20:23:30 ktne, Look for Marc Feeleys Scheme in 60 mins about how to implement Scheme 20:23:38 hmm, iron scheme seems to rely on DLR 20:23:44 Don't look at iron scheme :/ 20:23:47 i'm looking more for a C implementation 20:23:54 ktne, No it's a scheme implementation 20:24:01 ktne, He shows how to compile Scheme into C 20:24:17 ktne, implementation language is irrelevant anyway, just watch the video 20:24:28 It'll probably work. I don't see anything obviously wrong except the invocation of restarts. 20:24:33 Cheshire: does it explain how to implement continuations, tailcalls, closures, etc? 20:24:39 ktne, yes 20:24:46 Cheshire: ok, thanks a lot :) 20:24:54 ktne, are you looking for a practical Scheme implementation, or an introduction to the structure and interpretation of Scheme programs? 20:25:07 lol Riastradh 20:25:31 the way you phrased it :p 20:25:39 Riastradh: i want to know how those features are implemented, they appear magical :) 20:26:29 ktne: Did you try to get EoPL? It says much about losures and tail calls and gives insight into continuations. 20:26:43 Marc Feeleys Scheme in 60 mins is a PDF or a video? 20:26:44 s/losures/closures 20:26:47 ktne, both 20:26:58 i can't find the video, just the pdf 20:27:10 ktne, the video is worth watching 20:27:24 Cheshire: i know, do you have link? 20:27:27 no 20:27:29 (The first edition of) EoPL is a nice book, with an unfortunate focus on the irrelevant subject of parsing. 20:27:31 Cheshire: for some reason google doesn't find it 20:27:47 (EoPL stands for _Essentials of Programming Languages_.) 20:28:14 ah, i think i 20:28:18 i've found the video 20:28:19 thanks :) 20:28:26 i'm going to watch it now 20:33:46 ktne: Well, you may also want to look though my crappy effort to implement a castrated interpreter... If you really need just an approach to basic stuff 20:34:04 does anyone know if there's been any research into stack machines recently? 20:35:02 Hello. Does anyone know some Scheme Code for parsing lightweight markup like Structured Text or ReStructured Text? 20:36:20 alexshendi: cant that just be parsed by regex? 20:41:38 leppie: probably yes, I was just lazy and trying to find out if there was something I could use. 20:41:47 :) 20:45:50 Riastradh: [About EoPL]btw, they seem to have removed parsing stuff in 3-rd (or even 2-nd) edition. They just say, that parsing is a complicated thing and is usually done via parser generators. 20:50:21 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:59:13 heh, just had a chat with the python devs that they plan on having "hygienic list comprehensions" in p3k 20:59:39 christ, things move slowly in the extra-scheme world 20:59:55 extra-scheme? 21:00:38 ktne: outside-of-scheme 21:00:51 what's a hygenic list comprehension? 21:01:05 klutometis: what means outside-of-scheme? :) 21:01:12 elly: it turns out that [a for a in [1,2,3]] will pollute your scope 21:01:22 wait, what? 21:01:32 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 21:01:32 you mean a will be bound outside the []? 21:01:33 klutometis: the secular world 21:01:40 elly: yeah; it will mutate a 21:01:52 cost me hours of life the other day 21:01:57 ARGH! 21:02:35 By the way, I have a subtle question of fine aesthetics. 21:02:46 klutometis: that is...do not want :( 21:03:18 http://paste.lisp.org/display/74881 21:03:27 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:03:30 Should the beasts that fly from one's nose when one invokes undefined incantations be spelled `nasal demons' or `nasal daemons'? I know that literally it ought to be spelt `demons', since they are not system processes that run in the background, but somehow `nasal daemons' seems more appealing to me. 21:03:39 nasal demons 21:04:10 Riastradh: demon is a corruption of the greek daimon, and should preserve the ae diphthong regardless 21:04:13 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:04:18 (Also, I am not asking about existing practice. I am asking about which it *should* be.) 21:04:40 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@95.34.27.156.customer.cdi.no] has joined #scheme 21:04:42 you could also borrow from gcc's documentation 21:05:09 http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Nested-Functions.html grep "If you try to call" 21:05:12 Does GCC's documentation have an aesthetic argument for the preference of one spelling over the other? 21:05:14 the greek -> latin mapping is oi -> oe, ai -> ae; but americans instituted oe -> e, ae -> e 21:05:19 Riastradh: i say, keep the diphthong 21:05:32 foetus, saecular, daemonic, etc. 21:05:41 klutometis, actually, even Fowler recommends dropping the ligature and the `a' altogether. 21:05:52 Riastradh: it has an aesthetic argument for the use of biblical imagery in describing things that can go wrong :) 21:05:56 allotrope1 [n=allotrop@weapons.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 21:06:02 -!- allotrope1 [n=allotrop@weapons.cs.byu.edu] has left #scheme 21:06:11 hoely craep 21:07:13 I think there are some English words that used to have the dipthongs in them as late as the 20th century, but it seems that few people use them anymore like that, and some dictionaries appear to be calling them archaic versions of their "modern" counterparts. 21:07:35 When I can I like to use the appropriate diacritical marks on my words, but I often forget about the dipthongs. 21:08:36 In this particular case, I think it should remain demons, because I think the implied phonetics of the word are better in this instance. 21:08:38 This is not a question of archaism versus modernism; both `demon' and `daemon' have modern meanings, but their respective meanings are distinct. 21:09:13 Riastradh: But there is not a "modern" dmon where the 'a' and 'e' are a dipthong. 21:09:17 I've only ever seen 'daemon' used when referring to software 21:09:27 Riastradh: if i want to submit a patch to be included in mit-scheme, do i just send an email with the patch against 20090107 to chris hanson? 21:09:42 ecraven: Live life on the edge, CVS! 21:09:59 On the other hand, one could make the argument that `daemon' in this context sounds more archaic (because it does not refer to the modern notion of `daemon'), and therefore evokes more biblical hell-raising imagery, and is therefore more appropriate for the beasts that fly from one's nose. 21:10:30 Riastradh: depending on what is being warned against, you could threaten a rain of molten brass 21:10:59 Riastradh: I say either go with the dipthong or use the 'demon' version. 21:11:13 ecraven, it's better to make a patch against CVS (cvs diff -ru), and if you send it to me as well, there will be less of a chance of its being lost in our busy-ness (which properly ought to be spelled `business', but that's usually pronounced differently from what I mean). 21:11:20 I pronounce Daemon as day-mun, and it just doesn't sound as nice here. 21:11:38 `Demon' and `daemon' properly share pronunciation. 21:11:48 I pronounce daemon the way arcfide does 21:12:21 Riastradh: i'm trying again to add color support (for x11, and maybe for term if i can figure out how) 21:12:37 there's still no module system, right? 21:12:45 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176223253.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 21:12:57 wikipedia notes that "DAY-mon" is the incorrect pronounciation 21:13:43 That is correct, ecraven. 21:14:06 hah 21:14:13 I like the quote near the middle of the WP page for Daemon 21:14:25 it references "eudaemonia" 21:14:48 Riastradh: any plans for one? 21:14:59 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 21:15:04 Not that will be realized in the near future. 21:19:49 -!- jmo- [n=jmo-@83.233.243.145] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:22:04 -!- umis [n=umis@82.193.124.116.ipnet.kiev.ua] has quit ["Leaving..."] 21:24:47 arcfide: by the way, your diphthong needs an `h' 21:27:10 how do i build the microcode and the initial image again? 21:29:57 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176210016.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:33:53 ./Setup.sh ; ./configure; make 21:34:42 mejja: thanks 21:35:16 there was work on a 64bit backend some time ago, did that go anywhere? 21:35:49 -!- tizoc` is now known as tizoc 21:37:22 Not that I know of. 21:39:54 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 21:42:02 isomer`` [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 21:45:11 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:48:31 -!- isomer [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:50:46 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 21:58:00 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:01:06 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:06:59 ok, my patch still works ;) 22:07:42 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:07:47 -!- ktne [n=ktne@unaffiliated/ktne] has left #scheme 22:09:09 http://www.nexoid.at/tmp/edwin-colors.png :) 22:13:06 langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 22:15:50 macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:17:27 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:20:18 -!- langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (devel) (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:20:34 langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 22:22:56 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:24:21 EdwinIrc [n=EdwinIrc@mk093111003139.a1.net] has joined #scheme 22:24:26 :) 22:24:50 -!- EdwinIrc [n=EdwinIrc@mk093111003139.a1.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:25:23 -!- alexshendi [n=chatzill@dslb-094-218-223-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:33:48 automejja [n=edwin@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 22:42:19 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:42:29 incubot: "pythonic" describes the idioms of a half-ass lisp, written by half-ass hacks 22:42:31 and some people might eventually consider L to be a Lisp that's like Python, who knows. Where there are major departures from Lisp history, it's usually to be more pythonic. 22:42:41 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 22:43:14 incubot: I've got this idea for a new lisp, It's a mix of Arc, Clojure, ... and ... and ... 22:43:16 idea is that we're going to set up a coroutine. 22:43:54 Cheshire: and X#? http://www.xsharp.org/ 22:44:28 svn co http://svn.codeglide.com/svnroot/xsharp/ 22:44:28 svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svnroot/xsharp' 22:44:28 svn: PROPFIND of '/svnroot/xsharp': could not connect to server (http://svn.codeglide.com) 22:44:31 :(((( 22:44:32 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:44:33 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 22:44:37 still the source code is not available 22:44:47 why is that getting so much attention? http://xplusplus.sf.net has been enterprise for longer! 22:45:38 there's also http://flarelang.sourceforge.net/ 22:45:41 aspect: something about "superx++" instills confidence 22:47:20 argh, there's a whole tribe of them! 22:53:06 -!- automejja [n=edwin@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Everything would be fine if users would learn to love the lash."] 23:00:15 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:02:39 incubot: python reminds me of cyrillic: one is the byproduct of a poor student of greek; the other, a poor student of scheme 23:02:41 the make-move function is an automatic byproduct of define-struct? 23:03:26 incubot: Which is best X#, superx++ or flare? 23:03:28 flare_: no, before you joined 23:04:18 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:05:36 TryNiX [n=halaw@128.86.158.97] has joined #scheme 23:05:46 anyone knows a good compiler for scheme on os x 23:06:00 TryNiX, Chicken Scheme 23:06:06 *sjamaan* cheers 23:06:41 Cheshire, know a good IDE as well by any chance? 23:06:47 TryNiX, paredit 23:07:17 With carbon emacs 23:08:11 sjamaan: how does carbon emacs compare to aquamacs? 23:08:19 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:08:45 I think aquamacs has some keyboard shortcuts redefined 23:09:48 i downloaded aquamacs for a friend and noticed bizarre behavior; like symbolic links opened from the file menu will change the working dir, whereas C-x C-f will not 23:10:03 funky 23:10:15 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 23:10:29 I'm not sure aquamacs can do anything about that 23:10:40 maybe carbon emacs is less of a hack; have to try it out 23:10:43 It's probably dependant on how the OS passes the filename 23:10:48 sjamaan: probably 23:11:09 I've never used the menu with any emacs on OS X, so don't know 23:11:33 What's the point; if you're using emacs or vi, you use the keyboard, right? 23:12:05 I have devised a language study plan .. scheme -> c -> haskell 23:12:21 Weird order 23:12:36 I'd probably do Haskell & Scheme in either order, and then C 23:12:53 (or possibly C first, and then Haskell or Scheme) 23:13:02 sjamaan, would you include Lisp in the whole array? 23:13:11 Scheme is a Lisp 23:13:18 If you mean Common Lisp; I wouldn't bother 23:13:24 why do you want to learn a bunch of programming languages? 23:13:28 yeah meant common lisp 23:13:41 Cheshire, I just wanna know what each can do... I only know java at the moment 23:13:59 A noble goal, I'd say 23:14:36 and useful at any point in the future too I hope :P 23:14:43 Definitely 23:14:52 Scheme made me a better programmer in any language 23:15:17 I find it especially useful when programming in other dynamic languages, like Javascript and to a lesser extent PHP 23:15:34 python made me a better programmer in scheme. 23:15:35 *synx* ducks 23:15:46 why duck if it's your opinion :P 23:15:58 :) 23:16:06 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 23:16:12 scheme spoiled me for other languages 23:16:19 Yeah, it did that too :) 23:16:31 Every second of PHP programming is agony 23:16:53 I was born spoiled for PHP 23:17:14 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@95.34.27.156.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:17:15 Most people are :) 23:17:20 sjamaan, isn't there a scheme implementation for hadnling server-side scripting or something 23:17:39 Several Schemes have a webserver, or libraries for doing web programming 23:17:43 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 23:18:35 If you're trying Chicken, it has Spiffy the webserver 23:18:46 It rocks, IMHO (I'm the maintainer, so I'm biased) 23:19:18 I've been reading about PLT webserver and it sounds interesting too 23:19:24 dfeuer_ [n=David@pool-71-191-251-77.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:19:35 nice :) i'll take a look at that! 23:19:37 now I have to learn Emacs in order to use it as an IDE for Scheme :D 23:19:48 :) 23:19:48 -!- dfeuer [n=David@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:20:05 Emacs is probably good for Haskell too 23:20:13 -!- Guest17973 [n=m@dslb-088-066-238-070.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:20:18 And I like it for C as well, after some tweaking 23:26:09 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:26:27 bweaver [n=bweaver@150.182.242.124] has joined #scheme 23:30:18 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net."] 23:30:19 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 23:30:19 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 23:35:27 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 23:37:01 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 23:37:07 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 23:39:39 -!- TryNiX [n=halaw@128.86.158.97] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:41:01 Scheme does remind me of programming in C. No magic going on. 23:41:28 <3 no magic 23:43:22 Using javac feels more like getting lectured at than compiling. 23:44:25 :P 23:44:35 It tries to be a halting problem solver, heh. 23:44:39 Luckily, I've not had to use javac yet 23:45:42 And python with its whole "everything is an object" just has the smallest little cracks that make a big difference. 23:45:54 I shouldn't rant on languages though. We all know every language sucks. 23:47:01 aye 23:47:09 -!- karsten_ [n=karsten@dslb-088-072-200-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:47:42 Unfortunately I met some really smart people doing something nobody else has ever done, who love java just to death. 23:47:55 :S 23:48:15 There's hope: you can interface with their stuff using sisc :) 23:48:25 ehe... 23:49:29 problem is their stuff isn't working, so the java needs to be changed around still. 23:50:27 Just submit a bugreport and let them handle it ;) 23:50:28 *sjamaan* hides 23:50:51 s'what I've been doing for the past 2 years 23:51:34 the poor project has like, two developers left. and they got jobs. 23:51:50 Jobs not involving the project, I take it? 23:52:12 you would think there would be more interest in the problem of "Fix Usenet" 23:52:44 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 23:54:27 I guess it's just that the people who would fix it find it easier to use $$$ to locally fix what incorrect algorithms fail at. 23:55:02 That's how it always works 23:55:12 that's usually the attitude people express to me. "Why don't you just go buy ____?" 23:56:10 The industry is fundamentally fucked 23:56:52 Ever since DNS started up... 23:57:39 The Digital Imprimatur 23:59:39 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-227-20.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme