00:12:12 why do parser combinators return parsers? 00:12:21 rather then just parse? 00:13:56 so you can combinate them 00:15:22 ... 00:15:37 I think I misunderstood my own question 00:15:42 so, nvm 00:25:15 rtra_ [n=rtra@89.180.129.46] has joined #scheme 00:28:40 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:30:55 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:31:12 -!- rtra_ is now known as rtra 00:34:01 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF752.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 00:37:56 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-58-174.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 00:40:06 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:40:11 How can I get r6rs repl in plt? 00:40:29 you cant 00:41:15 leppie: is there in a world an r6rs repl, which can output expanded macros (like ,x in chicken) 00:41:17 ? 00:41:57 you can use tracing features in ikarus 00:43:08 or you can use the expand proc that expects syntax/datum and an environment (which (interaction-environment) would be ok for) 00:43:44 it returns multiple values, you only need the last one 00:44:27 but that will give you a complete expansion, I find the tracing features better 00:47:36 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:48:53 Hm... And what kind of syntax-case does mzscheme have? r6rs-like (srfi-93) or srfi-72? 00:49:35 I'm experimenting with syntax-case, but chicken, that I use, does implement only srfi-72 00:49:56 -!- dlurf [n=no@80.251.192.3] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:54:24 yay, that seems to be srfi-93 00:55:10 Seems, that I'll have to learn using plt eventually :P 01:01:29 plt/mzscheme is pretty hard to avoid... 01:03:31 ken-p` [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #scheme 01:07:44 ken-p`` [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #scheme 01:12:42 exexex [n=chatzill@85.96.237.120] has joined #scheme 01:17:39 syntax-rules is a very confusing thing. first it seems to be not a powerful thing... every time I do some experiments with macros, I start with syntax-case but eventually syntax-rules appears to be just enough 01:18:39 -!- ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:20:28 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-eddbf3cffb6bd54b] has joined #scheme 01:20:36 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-3-196.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 01:22:41 -!- ken-p` [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:25:50 -!- ken-p`` is now known as ken-p 01:25:55 Mr-Cat: if you're just trying to understand syntax-rules couldn't you use r5rs? 01:26:54 Arelius: No, I was trying to implement some stuff and started with syntax-case, but ended with syntax-rules 01:27:53 I've heard bad things about syntax-case 01:28:47 Arelius: What kind of bad things? 01:28:54 lemmie see if I can find it 01:29:52 I don't really know though, they both seem overly complicated! 01:30:15 Arelius: even syntax-rules? 01:30:51 I don't see what's wrong with the lisp defmacro style 01:34:41 Arelius: I don't see to. I believe - it's just 'scheme style' - to be completely hygienic and lexicaly-scoped 01:35:42 isn't it possible to make defmacro hygienic though? 01:35:45 at least mostly? 01:35:57 with out having to do crazy templating and the like 01:37:05 Arelius: There are 'syntactic closures' in scheme - they are similar to lisp macros, but (as far as I get them) they can be hygienic on demand 01:38:04 hrm 01:38:30 grettke [n=n@CPE-65-31-142-107.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:43:02 geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-73-98-69.dsl.dytnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:43:47 -!- grettke [n=n@CPE-65-31-142-107.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:44:07 mayhaps 01:45:43 cya 01:45:48 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [] 01:46:54 Can I introduce a "literal" binding in syntax-rules... so if I write "(let ((var ..." it really becomes "(let ((var ..."? 01:47:09 s/in/with 01:49:10 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-58-174.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:49:16 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.96.237.120] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:49:32 exexex [n=chatzill@85.96.237.120] has joined #scheme 01:50:15 synx: I have avoided PLT for a while. ;-) 01:50:47 Arelius: I don't find anything really bad about SYNTAX-CASE, though I know some people do not like it because they feel like it isn't a natural extension of procedures and combinations. 01:50:55 Arelius: Then again, neither is SYNTAX-RULES. 01:51:30 (Arelius has quit) 01:51:50 ski_: Aaah, yes, I missed that. 01:52:05 Mr-Cat: I don't think you can capture bindings with pure SYNTAX-RULES. 01:52:25 HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has joined #scheme 01:52:46 Mr-Cat, but you can just say (LET ([VAR ...]) ...) and have it become that. 01:53:21 What I'm trying to do it to write a macro, that expands to a lambda with a certain identifier, bounded inside 01:53:34 Mr-Cat, I'm sorry? 01:53:58 Mr-Cat, you mean you are trying to bind a name that is visible to code outside the macro? 01:54:05 Yes 01:54:19 To my knowledge, you can't do that. 01:54:24 Sorry not 01:54:25 Nm 01:54:26 With SYNTAX-CASE it's pretty easy though. 01:54:27 then you must pass that name to the macto 01:54:50 Ah, yes, there is that. 01:55:03 ski_: Thanks, seems to be a good idea 01:55:21 I thought he was trying to introduce a new name. 01:56:38 (define-syntax my-let1 (syntax-rules () ((my-let1 (?v ?e0) ?e1) (let ((?v ?e0)) ?e1)))) 01:56:41 e.g. 01:58:50 melito [n=melito@70.56.94.214] has joined #scheme 02:05:13 Eah, ski_, that's what I need, thanks 02:05:38 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:19:47 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.96.237.120] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:22:59 tizoc` [n=user@r190-135-8-209.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 02:23:22 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-48-48.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:40:54 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@78-106-72-40.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:45:57 criminy [n=criminy@adsl-34-32-141.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 02:51:02 forcer [n=forcer@e179197206.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:55:56 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@h-69-3-101-94.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:00:59 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 03:03:19 -!- forcer- [n=forcer@e179197136.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:03:28 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0C45.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:10:27 -!- HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:19:11 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:19:51 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:30:25 Gorgoroth [i=Gorgorot@195-132-141-240.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #scheme 03:41:25 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit ["leaving"] 03:52:34 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-138-45.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:52:51 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:56:06 newb12345 [n=x@DNab434ded.Stanford.EDU] has joined #scheme 03:56:22 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:56:23 where is dynamic-wind documented? i'm google search it, but i don't get any standards 04:03:30 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw560169.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:03:59 -!- incubot [n=incubot@66-215-93-47.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:07:56 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 04:08:55 incubot [n=incubot@66-215-93-47.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 04:09:37 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-138-45.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 04:12:51 newb12345: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/r5rs-std/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_598 04:12:58 It's r5rs though, so works not just on plt. 04:17:51 what is the idiomatic way to run a function n times and store the results in a list? is a named function, a counter and passing the list required? 04:22:10 (lambda (proc counter) (let loop ((result '()) (countdown counter)) (if (<= countdown 0) result (loop (cons (proc) result) (- countdown 1))))) 04:22:18 That's what I'd do 04:23:50 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:24:20 *jcowan* unvanishes and all that. 04:25:10 rudybot: (define n-func (lambda (proc counter) (let loop ((result '()) (countdown counter)) (if (<= countdown 0) (reverse result) (loop (cons (proc) result) (- countdown 1)))))) 04:25:10 synx: ? 04:26:14 er 04:26:18 eval 04:26:19 rudybot: eval (define n-func (lambda (proc counter) (let loop ((result '()) (countdown counter)) (if (<= countdown 0) (reverse result) (loop (cons (proc) result) (- countdown 1)))))) 04:26:25 rudybot: eval (define ugly-func (let ((ugly-thing 0)) ( () (set! ugly-thing (+ ugly-thing 1)) ugly-thing))) 04:26:33 rudybot: (n-func ugly-func 10) 04:26:33 synx: ? 04:26:39 agh 04:26:41 rudybot: eval (n-func ugly-func 10) 04:26:42 synx: ; Value: (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10) 04:26:46 rudybot: eval (n-func ugly-func 10) 04:26:47 synx: ; Value: (11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20) 04:26:53 qed 04:27:51 Why you have to call the same function the same way many times I'm not sure is a good idea. Does this function have side effects, like ugly-func? 04:28:46 no, it generates random mutations 04:29:58 -!- davids [n=davids@201008007068.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit ["Client exiting"] 04:30:03 -!- melito [n=melito@70.56.94.214] has quit [] 04:31:18 does that...count as side effects...? 04:31:37 there are no side effects 04:32:57 it's a really philosophical question though. Is a function imperative when it uses a source of randomness? 04:33:25 Implementation-wise it's true, since the side effect is to reduce the available entropy in /dev/random or whatnot. 04:34:09 But if you had an infinite source of randomness, would a function that returned a random number be imperative or um... functional? 04:34:48 who cares 04:34:50 What about pseudorandom? The seed is technically a side effect then, you just change the seed and your function changes behavior. 04:36:24 I guess my question would be, what function that has no side effects can be non-pure? 04:42:09 -!- forcer [n=forcer@e179197206.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:43:40 so anyways... https://synx.us.to/feepcode/n-func.ss 04:43:44 er 04:44:33 okay there. thought I lost the file for a minute there. 04:45:28 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:45:42 amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-81-104.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 04:52:37 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.44.126] has left #scheme 04:56:27 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:57:26 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit ["rebooting time"] 04:57:40 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:58:01 -!- offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:04:51 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:06:44 -!- nothingHappens [n=nothingH@12-226-78-3.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:10:16 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176206000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:12:30 offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 05:15:27 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:18:01 rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 05:20:48 benny [n=benny@i577A0D92.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 05:22:42 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 05:27:08 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176216032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:48:59 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:49:08 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:59:54 how is the following even possible: $ gsi -e "(pp '(1 2 3))" &> crap 05:59:54 (1 2 3) 06:00:10 the 1 2 3 gets printed to the screen, and not redireceted to a file 06:00:15 tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has joined #scheme 06:00:26 -!- tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has quit [Client Quit] 06:01:14 tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has joined #scheme 06:01:58 &> looks weird... why not just >? 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10:15:29 Been unreachable for the past few days (or weeks?) 10:37:03 barney [n=bernhard@p549A27F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 10:55:47 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-73-98-69.dsl.dytnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:05:46 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:21:01 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit ["aunt jemima is the devil!"] 11:27:01 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-28-62.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:42:36 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 11:54:40 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A27F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:59:59 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:09:41 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-34.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 12:19:29 barney [n=bernhard@p549A27F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 12:19:40 forcer [n=forcer@f054023055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 12:19:49 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 12:25:19 jah [n=jah@86.76.56.126] has joined #scheme 12:32:58 -!- cky [n=cky@202-74-211-197.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:39:41 tr3 [n=tr3@host28-43-dynamic.183-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 12:43:39 -!- pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.1.50.5"] 12:46:46 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFD0D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:49:47 choas [n=lars@p5B0DD876.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:52:02 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@78-106-72-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 12:56:33 Need some help with syntax-rules 12:56:51 Don't we all :/ 12:57:00 syntax-rules rules!@ 12:57:25 rrr, lisppaste didn't paste my question 12:57:50 http://paste.lisp.org/display/74675 12:58:50 ((m/ body ...) (m/binder body ...)) ;; suggests you want to 'capture' the name within body 12:58:57 yes 12:58:57 but hygiene means this is impossible 12:59:00 yes 12:59:19 if you use (syntax-rules () ...) then will be special in the scope of the macro 12:59:24 But (m/binder body...) works 13:00:06 higepon415 [n=taro@FL1-122-133-100-227.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 13:02:18 I've already tried putting in '(syntax-rules ' in each place and in both, but that does not work either :( 13:03:18 So is 'm/' possible to implement with syntax-rules only? 13:03:50 hygiene means this is impossible 13:04:52 So, If i want to capture some binding by a macro, it should be a parameter of this particulr macro? 13:05:11 Thanks 13:06:56 (define #f) 13:07:24 (define (m/-thunk body-thunk) (set! (some-expressions)) (body-thunk)) 13:08:00 (define-syntax m/ (syntax-rules () ((m/ body ...) (m/-thunk (lambda () body ...))))) 13:08:12 ;; doesn't really do anything like what you pasted 13:08:58 So, you suggest using set! ? 13:09:03 but if you don't ever nest use of then .. you could do it that way, you could even (unset! ) after unthunking body-thunk 13:09:28 dunno I just thought of this 13:09:35 it might be a rubbish idea 13:11:56 Well, using a global 'placeholder' instead of making a local binding will do in single-threaded app. Thanks 13:12:28 oh good point it would not work multithreaded 13:13:32 -!- Guest99413 [n=mike@dslb-088-066-241-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:16:59 anyway, if it's not possible with syntax-case I might use something less hygienic 13:17:53 I really can't imagine why you would want an un-hygienic macro 13:18:19 just write (m ...) instead of (m/ ...) 13:20:24 you can do that in syntax-case 13:20:38 leppie: M? How? 13:21:27 Oh, syntax-case 13:21:30 yes 13:21:49 Just misread 'syntax-case'. 13:26:17 synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:31:20 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c809ABF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 13:33:16 -!- gaja [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:42:44 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@78-106-72-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:45:53 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:46:32 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 13:48:40 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A27F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:51:41 jimi_hendrix [n=Jimi_Hen@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #scheme 13:51:49 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 13:51:59 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:52:59 just curious...are there push/pop builtin functions for using a list like a stack 13:53:03 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-0-96.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 13:53:04 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 13:53:26 jimi_hendrix, we call them CONS and CDR though :p 13:54:18 oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 13:54:21 shiney 13:55:30 nothingHappens [n=nothingH@12-226-78-3.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 14:03:45 pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has joined #scheme 14:04:00 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 14:06:39 vixey, but how do i pop the value from the list (cdr just returns the last value, but after it is returned i want it to be removed) 14:11:47 Judofyr_ [n=Judofyr@c809ABF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 14:12:17 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c809ABF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:12:21 -!- Judofyr_ is now known as Judofyr 14:19:28 -!- kraant [n=kraant@CPE-58-161-128-2.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:21:16 -!- jah [n=jah@86.76.56.126] has quit ["Quitte"] 14:22:00 ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #scheme 14:22:59 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 14:22:59 -!- tizoc` [n=user@r190-135-8-209.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:23:15 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-24-129.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 14:37:30 dzhus [n=sphinx@93.81.159.157] has joined #scheme 14:43:09 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 14:43:16 jah [n=jah@126.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 14:43:32 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 14:43:35 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@78-106-72-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 14:56:01 Is the superbowl on now? 14:58:22 the pre-pre-pre-game is almost starting 14:58:51 By that do you refer to a TV event or drinking? 14:59:13 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 15:00:17 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:00:32 hehe 15:00:51 is there a scheme aggregator that will collect multiple rss/atom feeds into a single feed? 15:00:58 *jimi_hendrix* is sad he lost in fanstasy when both quater backs got hurt...tom brady -> mat shuab 15:00:58 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:01:08 ecraven: There's an rss egg for Chicken. 15:02:03 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@78-106-72-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:02:16 but anyway...if i have a list, is there a way to pop a value from it (so that the value is returned but the list no longer contains the value (the value would be the last value put on)) 15:03:07 (define-syntax pop! (syntax-rules ((pop! ls) (let ((res (car ls))) (set! ls (cdr ls)) res)))) 15:03:24 heh foof 15:03:32 (define (wozzle patients) 15:03:32 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@78-106-72-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 15:03:38 (pop! patients)) 15:04:22 jimi_hendrix, use CAR and CDR 15:04:40 ex: (CAR '(1 2 3)) ~> 1 (CDR '(1 2 3)) ~> (2 3) 15:05:33 I gave the equivalent of CL's POP - if you know what it's doing, it's a usable, if non-FP, idiom. 15:07:14 ok vixey so you car it then cdr the rest 15:08:11 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 15:15:08 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 15:19:59 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05591B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:20:42 gaja [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 15:23:21 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:28:15 how do i display the contents of a lambda? 15:29:09 (quote foo) gets me the symbol, foo gets me # and (foo) runs it; none of which i want 15:30:46 You want the source code for the lambda? 15:31:07 Or what do you mean with "contents"? 15:31:09 It might not be available in compiled program 15:32:37 yes, the source code 15:33:08 in this case it should be available 15:33:33 pizza__: In which case? 15:34:02 Even the interpreter is not required to keep the source code in runtime 15:34:17 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:34:19 just look at your text file 15:34:44 so there is no way to do it programatically? 15:34:47 -!- jah [n=jah@126.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 15:35:24 No, and wanting to do that is a code smell 15:37:50 strange for a homoiconic language 15:38:35 pizza__, You can implement: 15:38:47 (DEFINE-AND-STORE NAME/ARGS BODY ...) 15:39:31 which works exactly like DEFINE, except only allow it at the toplevel and have it store a quoted copy of the definition in some table 15:41:54 yup ok 15:42:04 -!- higepon415 [n=taro@FL1-122-133-100-227.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:42:17 just curious if there was an existing facility 15:44:47 pizza__, so you don't actually care about this feature? 15:45:03 pizza__: If it exists, It would be implementation-specific 15:45:12 Mr-Cat, what 15:45:13 no, i do care 15:45:22 pizza__, you should try to implement it then 15:45:27 If you get stuck ask 15:45:37 vixey: Facilities to work with source code in runtime 15:45:51 i know i can work around it, i was just curious if there was an existing built-in way before i implemented it 15:46:01 Mr-Cat, SYNTAX-RULES and a ASSOC table is all straight R5RS 15:46:07 pizza__, what is your workaround? 15:46:16 (and why would you rather use a workaround than the real thing?) 15:47:04 vixey: I mean, some implementations might have what pizza__ wants 15:47:17 i don't understand your question vixey 15:47:27 i know i can work around it 15:47:36 How will you work around it? 15:47:59 pizza__: Plt has some tracing and debugging tools, you may try them 15:48:04 i was thinking with a quoted expr and eval 15:48:19 no need for eval 15:48:53 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 15:48:56 DEFINE-AND-STORE would be defined using SYNTAX-RULES 15:49:40 well i'll have to learn about that then 15:49:52 ugh, eval 16:11:37 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:20:19 rudybot: eval ((if (#f) 0 (begin (define x 1) x))) 16:20:20 pizza__: error: eval:1:19: define: not allowed in an expression context in: (define x 1) 16:20:47 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [No route to host] 16:21:20 i have some code that does a series of defines and set!s in an if's 'else' clause; how can i refactor this to make it work? 16:22:27 Try changing the DEFINEs to LETs 16:23:01 (or LET*/LETREC, depending on how you're using them) 16:23:48 ok thanks 16:26:57 you can also do (let () (define x 1) x) 16:27:08 Vive La Michel Desjoyeaux! http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/videolive/ 16:31:56 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:32:31 -!- jimi_hendrix [n=Jimi_Hen@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:35:56 jah [n=jah@126.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 16:37:46 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@78-106-72-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:41:32 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:41:51 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 16:43:15 vixey [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:46:02 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 17:05:47 balibalu_ [n=balibalu@p5B20FEBF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:06:15 HEY IHR PENNA 17:06:23 WO SEH ICH DIE LOTTOZAHLEN 17:06:34 brauch hilfe dabei 17:06:43 bin zu gebumst 17:07:15 -!- balibalu_ [n=balibalu@p5B20FEBF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 17:08:00 incubot: WO SEH ICH DIE LOTTOZAHLEN 17:08:27 is length generally O(1) or O(n)? 17:09:06 i see no specific mention in the reference, curious if reading length once and pass the length explicitly is better than reading it each time during recursion 17:09:15 O(n) 17:09:30 ok 17:11:41 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:14:10 X-Scale [i=email@89-180-64-237.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 17:15:09 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 17:17:01 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:21:54 -!- incubot [n=incubot@66-215-93-47.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:24:10 is there a straight-forward way to do multiple assignments at once, i.e. assign identifiers to the first n items in a list? or is (let ((x (car foo)) (y (cadr foo)) ... ) required? 17:25:20 incubot [n=incubot@66-215-93-47.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 17:27:00 in PLT you can use "match-let" 17:27:04 rudybot: doc match-let 17:27:11 offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference%2Fmatch.html#(form._((lib._scheme%2Fmatch..ss)._match-let)) 17:27:24 ooh, that URL may not work. 17:27:27 Thought I fixed that 17:27:46 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-066-241-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 17:27:51 pizza__: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/match.html#(form._((lib._scheme%2Fmatch..ss)._match-let)) 17:28:03 -!- vixey [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:28:15 -!- mike is now known as Guest30181 17:28:23 offby1: thank you very much 17:28:48 vixey [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:29:01 rudybot: doc match-let 17:29:01 offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/match.html#(form._((lib._scheme%2Fmatch..ss)._match-let)) 17:29:04 yeah! 17:30:53 -!- vixey [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 17:31:59 -!- jah [n=jah@126.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 17:35:24 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@93.81.159.157] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:41:35 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 17:42:47 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c809ABF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:47:48 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #scheme 17:54:30 charmless [n=charmles@207-47-214-130.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has joined #scheme 17:59:12 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 17:59:16 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:59:56 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 18:06:17 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:09:45 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 18:16:52 eli: PLT folks: is there a built-in function that does what emacs' directory-file-name does? Namely: "This function returns a string representing DIRNAME in a form that the operating system will interpret as the name of a file. On most systems, this means removing the final slash (or backslash) from the string." 18:21:03 rudybot: eval ((let ((expr '(* x x))) (eval (list 'let '((x 2)) expr)))) 18:21:03 pizza__: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: 4 (no arguments) 18:21:14 rudybot: eval (let ((expr '(* x x))) (eval (list 'let '((x 2)) expr))) 18:21:14 offby1: ; Value: 4 18:21:29 oh right 18:24:24 dsmith [i=zu8czmnj@cpe-71-74-230-225.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:31:25 heow [n=user@colo-69-31-43-106.pilosoft.com] has joined #scheme 18:32:21 i'm trying to build expressions dynamically that reference symbols; i want to be able to store that code and at a later point execute the code in an environment where the symbols are defined with arbitrary values 18:33:44 Quick question... what is the simplest Scheme intreperter that runs in Java? SICS? Kawa? Jaja? ...? 18:34:55 actually figured it out 18:42:34 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 18:46:56 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:57:26 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 18:58:29 geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-73-98-69.dsl.dytnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:00:19 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [] 19:03:07 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-0-96.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:04:10 arcfide [n=arcfide@h-68-165-188-143.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #scheme 19:05:29 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:08:50 rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 19:15:55 -!- incubot [n=incubot@66-215-93-47.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:18:45 jah [n=jah@126.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 19:20:41 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable027.191-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 19:20:46 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@h-68-165-188-143.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:21:47 offby1: I don't know, why do you need it? 19:22:23 eli: it would have eased the process of converting the userinfo.db. But I don't need it now 19:22:37 I just used replace-regexp to trim the trailing / 19:22:54 How's that? From inside mzscheme you can't open a directory anyway. 19:24:16 well, the old format had all the sightings for eli as some files in a directory named eli. The new format has them all live in a _file_ named eli. 19:24:35 So I got the directory name by simply doing list-files in the parent, and I wanted to compute the new file name from that. 19:24:36 Archville [n=Archvill@82.158.35.70.static.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 19:24:46 Hi 19:25:03 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:25:45 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #scheme 19:28:00 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 19:28:09 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 19:28:48 eli: did you ever use the bot in class? 19:29:45 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 19:31:13 brb (dell support) 19:33:37 well here's a conundrum 19:33:41 To achieve the functionality I want requires changing about 5 lines of code. 19:33:49 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 19:34:13 Doing that in anything but the development HEAD is not helpful, so I need to use that. 19:34:41 But said bleeding edge code has no guarantees about stability or consistent interfaces, so they say not to use it. 19:35:21 sounds like a branch-management problem 19:35:31 what project are you hacking on, and what revision control system does it use? 19:35:39 So should I just patch the release version and use that, or patch the latest version and ignore the bugs, or just patch it out of the goodness of my heart and wait patiently for a release? 19:36:08 Oh, it's pidgin actually. But the purple-plugin-pack tries to keep in sync with it. 19:36:19 what revision control system? 19:36:22 *offby1* likes pidgin, by the way. 19:36:44 So two independant projects both with... monotone, both with no guarantees on interface or workablility. 19:36:50 holy crap 19:36:53 people actually use monotone?! 19:37:04 Anyway: I'd patch the release version, and use it; meanwhile I'd submit it back to them. 19:37:15 Uh yeah I know like 4 projects that do. Not a big fan myself... 19:37:20 Hopefully you'll have some way of "maintaining" your patches even if they release a new version that doesn't include them. 19:37:32 That technique is sometimes called "patch queues" 19:37:34 Heh, yeah... 19:38:03 I never could figure out patch queues. I just go do all the patch files over again and fix them if they break. 19:38:12 using a weird-ass system like that is just like hanging a big sign on your project that says "We don't really want you to help us". 19:38:29 -!- heow [n=user@colo-69-31-43-106.pilosoft.com] has left #scheme 19:38:37 synx: well, you now know the first important thing about patch queues: namely, the problem they're intended to solve. (Namely: exactly that.) 19:38:49 ? It's not that much different from other version control systems offby1. 19:38:59 no, not _that_ much different. 19:39:03 But just different enough. 19:39:28 It's not the difference that bothers me. 19:39:56 It's the huge database file you got to synchronize. Even pidgin has a page admitting that's getting to be a problem. 19:40:21 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 19:40:50 The problem of why you can't develop on the development branch is true for CVS and SVN too, anything really. 19:41:30 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 19:41:41 You can't develop here! This is the development branch! 19:41:47 I assume the "huge database file" problem is: when you _first_ clone the repository, you have to download a lot of stuff. But I also assume that, once you've done so, keeping in sync is easy. Am I right? 19:41:49 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Client Quit] 19:42:54 Yes that's true offby1. 19:43:19 Still having every new hack developer download a 250 megabyte file just to look at the code is a bit... unscalable... 19:43:57 Interesting problem 19:45:41 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 19:46:14 synx: I assume that's true of every distributed vcs 19:46:45 offby1: I get the feeling monotone is on the high end of that spectrum though. 19:47:28 perhaps one could merge a dvcs with bittorrent? 19:47:35 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:48:02 heh 19:48:03 *mejja* applies for a petent 19:48:14 You'd still have to download all those megabytes 19:49:29 Why, isn't the upper bound on memory 640 kilobytes? 19:49:33 should make it so you only need to get the revisions since the last release 19:49:54 The revisions since 0-day strategy never seemed very kindly to me. 19:51:23 make a new release by copying the revisions somewhere safe and starting it over like a new project with 0 revisions. That way people only have to get a database of the last month's revisions if they start with the current release. 19:52:56 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has left #scheme 19:53:11 Or make it lazily download those revisions you need 19:53:24 So just the latest in case you develop against HEAD 19:54:14 offby1: No, I realized that I should really do that when we get to mutation. 19:54:25 ("that" = demo rudybot) 19:54:38 good point sjamaan 19:55:22 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 19:57:25 erich [n=erich@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 19:57:39 crap, ran the vacuum and blew a circuit breaker, as usual :-| 19:59:07 rudybot_ [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 20:00:31 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:01:02 -!- rudybot_ is now known as rudybot 20:02:03 rudybot: uptime 20:02:03 *erich: I've been up for three minutes, sixteen seconds; this tcp/ip connection has been up for three minutes, six seconds 20:02:07 sho' 'nuff 20:02:53 ffdsfd [n=hask@h132n2c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #scheme 20:02:58 exexex [n=chatzill@88.234.122.234] has joined #scheme 20:03:10 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 20:03:10 pjb3_ [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:03:24 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:03:33 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 20:03:49 -!- elmex [i=elmex@ist.m8geil.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:04:06 -!- erich [n=erich@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit ["leaving"] 20:04:18 are modern computers register machines? 20:04:38 well, they have registers ... 20:05:43 ffdsfd: yes, if you mean "as opposed to stack machines" (most computers, anyway) 20:05:43 more than that, I do not know. 20:06:15 (which is unfortunate, as stack machines have some very interesting properties) 20:06:57 vixey [n=v@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:08:18 -!- offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:08:57 offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 20:10:43 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:10:46 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@95.34.27.156.customer.cdi.no] has joined #scheme 20:10:48 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 20:11:17 such as? 20:12:24 rapid context switches 20:12:39 no need for complicated register allocation 20:13:10 do you know of any papers that show that register machines are inherently "better" than stack machines? 20:14:31 -!- pjb3 [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:15:54 i dont know of any papers :) 20:16:08 anything else? books? benchmarks? 20:16:08 so register machines are cheaper to make? 20:16:18 i don't think so 20:16:23 i'd even guess register machines are more expensive 20:16:24 tradition then? 20:16:37 that's what i think. intel machines have been register machines, and everyone wants to be compatible 20:16:38 there is some reason no? 20:16:46 blame intel 20:16:50 like the reason everybody is using windows :P 20:17:31 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 20:17:44 most of the time the technically superior technology / implementation / ... does *not* win the market 20:17:50 current hardware design seems to favor register machines 20:17:52 better marketing does 20:19:13 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:22:47 Has anyone invoked my name lately? 20:25:40 not since 15:42 gmt+1 20:26:02 Riastradh: what's your take on register vs. stack (vs. something else) machines? 20:26:09 -!- ffdsfd [n=hask@h132n2c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has left #scheme 20:28:11 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:30:05 -!- charmless [n=charmles@207-47-214-130.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has quit [] 20:30:21 *Riastradh* shrugs. 20:30:39 I don't have an opinion on it. 20:31:57 Riastradh, do you wanna see my CPS converter? 20:32:23 stupid registration form :( i cant even think of 15 words, nevermind 75! 20:32:41 incubot [n=incubot@66-215-93-47.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:34:33 vixey, anything noteworthy about it, or was it mostly a pedagogical exercise? 20:34:44 Riastradh, it's 3 lines long 20:34:52 (if you ignore comments) 20:35:02 Go ahead. 20:35:24 -!- jah [n=jah@126.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:35:49 http://pastie.org/376832 20:36:03 I put an explanation of it too 20:36:28 Those lines are so long that they get truncated when I look at it. Can you lisppaste it? 20:36:41 ok 20:37:31 CPS pasted "control" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74694 20:37:34 rtra_ [n=rtra@89.180.151.184] has joined #scheme 20:38:22 I think my comments are excessively chatty but you can probably ignore them 20:38:31 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:39:39 Other then PLT, does anyone know of schemes with good UI toolkit implementations? 20:42:37 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:44:05 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 20:47:29 -!- rtra_ [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:47:36 rtra [n=rtra@89.181.0.230] has joined #scheme 20:47:54 *offby1* watches the tumbleweeds skitter down Main St 20:47:55 kraant [n=kraant@CPE-58-161-128-2.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 20:47:55 chicken has some eggs for sdl i think 20:48:02 `Three lines' is a bit of an exaggeration, vixey. 20:48:33 yeah, 3 definitions I should say. 20:48:33 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:48:48 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 20:48:54 but I thought it's a pretty neat way to CPS convert! 20:49:04 what do you think ? 20:49:05 The use of macros is confusing and unnecessary. I'm rewriting it without macros to understand it. 20:49:10 ok 20:49:18 alaricsp_ [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 20:49:21 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:51:35 Arelius: you might try the new Jazz Scheme, built atop Gambit. 20:52:09 *foof* always assumed stack machines were inherently better 20:52:18 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:52:20 ... specifically ternary stack machines 20:52:52 foof: ah, those are my favorite too 20:52:54 ecraven: SDL doesn't really UI properlly... 20:53:00 Daemmerung: Jazz eh? 20:53:03 Arelius: you want qt/gtk? 20:53:55 main problem is if you move stack caches onto the cpu, you get some of the disadvantages of register machines (but you gain some speed) 20:55:41 ecraven: not qt/gtk specificially, but SDL afaik has hardly any useful widgets 20:55:49 Arelius: another to consider would be STklos. 20:56:03 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-125-152.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 20:56:05 Of those, I only have experience with PLT. 20:56:26 Arelius: CLIM :) 20:56:26 ecraven: and the chicken SDL egg afaik has no SDL UI bindings. 20:56:33 CLIM? 20:56:44 Daemmerung: how does PLT ui treat you? 20:56:50 common lisp interface manager 20:57:02 -!- alaricsp_ [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:57:02 not scheme, but has very interesting concepts for user interfaces 20:57:04 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 20:57:32 Daemmerung: I've thought about trying out PLT, it has some editor controls which would be nice for what I'm working for. 20:57:46 ecraven: yeah, I'll check it out, but I'd really rather work in scheme 20:58:17 Arelius: it's cross-platform, with all the strengths and limitations that that implies. Folks who are fussy about their Linux GUIs complain about its look and feel. Looks fine on Win and Mac, though. 20:58:23 Arelius: CLIM is interesting concept-wise, the open implementations aren't complete 20:59:43 Daemmerung: how is it's drawing support? full featured? 21:00:08 For painting in a canvas, or for constructing custom widgets? 21:00:23 painting in a canvas 21:00:32 and STKlos uses gtk bindings? 21:00:36 Painting in a canvas is very good. Can't speak to custom widgetry. All my painting support was OpenGL, though. 21:01:14 And PLT has quite the rich supporting library and user community. 21:01:38 How easy is it to create a stand alone install? 21:01:49 not requiring the base PLT install 21:02:35 Quite easy. Essentially its zips up all the necessary SOs/DLLs into a mini PLT tree and carries those along with it. 21:03:13 It's not MSI, though, if that's what you need. (a Windows thing) 21:03:20 no 21:03:39 so, it can run from a dir though? 21:03:50 Don't know what you mean by that. 21:04:09 hrm, nvm 21:04:11 It's too clever, vixey. I don't understand it yet. Can you make it generate properly tail recursive code, and not duplicate conditional continuations? 21:06:14 Riastradh, I don't know how to do that actually about tail recursion, haven't thought about that much but about condinationals I was LET before for the intermediate results except that seems not really like CPS 21:06:35 conditionals* 21:07:10 Nothing is wrong with LET provided that the right-hand sides are non-combinations. 21:09:08 -!- nothingHappens [n=nothingH@12-226-78-3.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:09:31 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:10:01 jimi_hendrix [n=Jimi_Hen@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #scheme 21:12:50 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [] 21:15:02 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 21:15:18 nothingHappens [n=nothingH@12-226-78-3.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 21:16:39 Does r5rs have a function that I can use to find a item in a list? 21:16:48 yes 21:16:48 say something like... 21:16:52 Yes, CAR, CDR, PAIR?, EQV?, &c. 21:17:16 I supose this is a hard qeustion to ask properlly 21:17:21 I want something like map 21:17:38 but returns the first cell that the function returns true on 21:17:41 or something of the like 21:17:49 You want FIND or FIND-TAIL from SRFI 1. 21:17:56 Thanks! 21:18:08 -!- nothingHappens [n=nothingH@12-226-78-3.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:18:53 rudybot: eval (member 3 '(1 2 3 4 5)) 21:18:54 mejja: ; Value: (3 4 5) 21:20:15 arcfide [n=arcfide@h-66-167-220-4.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #scheme 21:20:59 hi 21:24:37 ha 21:24:54 hb 21:25:19 rudybot: give wastrel a-gift 21:25:19 offby1: error: reference to undefined identifier: a-gift 21:25:26 rudybot: give wastrel a-gift 21:25:26 wastrel: offby1 has given you a value, use (GRAB) in an eval to get it (case sensitive) 21:25:28 moghar [n=moghar@157.185.jawnet.pl] has joined #scheme 21:25:41 *offby1* should have put it in a box 21:26:02 (GRAB) 21:26:12 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 21:26:13 eval (GRAB) 21:26:14 like that 21:26:27 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 21:26:28 wastrel: ; Value: "A pitcher of Hale's Pale Ale" 21:26:33 *offby1* rolls eyes 21:26:36 corny but fun 21:26:36 heh 21:27:19 i am running a supybot atm but should switch to something lispy eh 21:27:24 rudybot: give wastrel a-gift 21:27:24 wastrel: offby1 has given you a value, use (GRAB) 21:27:32 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 21:27:32 wastrel: ; Value: #&"More beverage" 21:27:48 elmex [i=elmex@ist.m8geil.de] has joined #scheme 21:30:58 rudybot: eval (set-box! a-gift "Corona") 21:32:20 github eh 21:32:50 -!- voidpointer [n=voidpoin@unaffiliated/voidpointer] has quit ["re-start evilwm"] 21:33:51 github's syntax hilighting fails on scheme eh 21:34:28 hrm no just in your main.ss 21:34:29 wastrel: Really? 21:35:01 rudybot's main.ss has shell stuffs at the top so i guess that was the prob 21:35:19 Maybe 21:35:43 many scheme highlighters go mad when they see symbols, like # 21:36:11 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 21:37:30 It seems to me that it is confused by single-quotes, as though it were highlighting not Scheme but some other language -- say, shell script, because the file begins with some silly shell incantation. 21:37:50 Riastradh: Seems like that 21:38:41 Seems, that github does not rely on extension only to identify file type 21:43:42 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 21:49:38 I never noticed syntax highlighting one way or the other on github 21:49:40 *offby1* checks 21:50:13 ooooh ugly. 21:50:16 offby1: you need to be using a colour television 21:50:22 aspect: what's that? 21:50:31 wastrel: they should honor emacs mode cookies. 21:53:20 Daemmerung: Did you see Matthew's post on the mailing list? 21:54:07 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 21:56:58 I did, and I wish him Godspeed. 22:05:03 Daemmerung: If it works, then the whole thing is going to be mzscheme only, and it will talk to gtk... (But it is a really huge thing.) 22:08:14 *offby1* rechecks the mailing list 22:09:08 It is a really, really huge thing, and would break all manner of client code if it actually displaced MrEd. But having looked into the depths of MrEd, I can understand his motivation. 22:10:59 -!- vixey [n=v@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:11:27 vixey [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:12:05 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:14:59 Daemmerung: well, his intention is to implement the same interface. There is definitely enough mred code in the plt tree that depends on it. 22:15:48 we should fund cloning technology, so that we can have three or four Matthews working in parallel. 22:16:27 who needs cloning people breed already 22:16:42 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@li15-44.members.linode.com] has quit ["l8r"] 22:17:05 yeah, but: 1) the bairns aren't just like the original; and 2) even if they were they'd take 20-30 years to get up to snuff. 22:17:19 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:17:26 I want sci-fi cloning, where the clone is the same age, wears the same clothes, etc, as the original. 22:17:31 Not real cloning which is dull. 22:17:36 :) 22:17:38 like multiplicity lol 22:18:01 if you're combing your hair when you get cloned -- then the clone, too, comes out combing _his_ hair (and the comb gets cloned, too, so you could make a tidy sum selling it.) 22:18:15 (if it's a valuable comb, of course.) 22:19:13 offby1, before I'm cloned that way, I want to make sure I have a simple way to change all my passwords, and get the master passphrase kept by a trusted third party who'll only give it to the real me. 22:19:25 oh, I'd trust my clone. 22:19:35 -!- tr3 [n=tr3@host28-43-dynamic.183-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:19:46 fool! 22:19:51 uh oh. 22:20:01 *offby1* freezes with his hand halfway to the beaker 22:20:42 Fare: How do you avoid the clone getting the passwords too? 22:21:20 There was some sci-fi story about instant transportation that was done via a clone -- which people didn't like to use since it means that the "real you" must be killed after cloning... 22:21:22 the trusted third party would have the change the passwords _after_ the clone, then give the new ones to _just_ the "real" one, assuming he can figure out which is the real one. 22:21:28 They'd be both claiming to be real. 22:21:59 i like it 22:22:14 eli: I randomly generate the master password and without looking at it, put it in a sealed envelope and entrust it to a trusted 3rd party. 22:22:44 of course, *I* am the real one! 22:22:51 I think the problem is that niether of you is more real then the other 22:23:05 so, as offby1 said, I too would trust the clone/real me 22:23:07 Fare, why don't you just put it under your bed until after you get cloned? 22:23:14 Yeah, all of that assumes that the 3rd party will know which one is the clone... 22:23:20 *offby1* suspects Fare of being some sort of impostor 22:24:10 Arelius, by definition, *I* am more real 22:24:26 X-Scale2 [i=email@89.180.73.89] has joined #scheme 22:24:32 how is that by definition? 22:25:22 definition of *I*. 22:25:30 *I* think, therefore *I* am. 22:25:43 It's obvious -- he can say "*I*" unambiguously as long as he's not cloned. 22:26:14 even after! It's my clone who'll be ambiguous and fallacious about "I". 22:27:04 Yes, of course, of course. 22:27:14 *eli* tells the clone 22:27:28 I just gave the password to your clone by mistake, I'm sorry. 22:27:33 Won't happen ever again. 22:27:36 I promise. 22:27:41 gah! I should never have trusted *you* 22:27:41 ah, so you can tell the clone apart by inspecting its special variables! 22:28:10 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-27-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 22:28:42 Just because my nick differs doesn't mean I'm not a legitimate clone of offby1 22:28:52 << sound of fisticuffs >> 22:31:49 *Daemmerung* picks up a guitar, and sings: 22:32:07 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:32:07 "Oh, give me a clone / of my own flesh and bone / with its Y chromosome changed to X...." 22:32:20 Daemmerung, you read too much Heinlein 22:32:28 Euw. 22:32:37 I think that one's by Asimov, actually. 22:32:57 *offby1* backs away slowly 22:33:01 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89-180-64-237.net.novis.pt] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:33:04 -!- X-Scale2 is now known as X-Scale 22:33:28 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-73-98-69.dsl.dytnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:34:05 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-201-33-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:35:37 geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-73-98-69.dsl.dytnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:43:21 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DD876.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:46:17 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 22:47:38 AmandaSoire_ [n=mts82@c-66-31-48-50.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:48:20 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 22:50:05 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 22:54:57 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-125-152.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:56:11 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-34.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:00:34 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:05:32 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:05:52 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 23:08:23 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["yay!"] 23:08:29 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #scheme 23:09:29 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:10:34 Yay? 23:10:50 Hurray! 23:10:57 gnomon, what's the excitement about? 23:11:48 He thought he finally got away 23:11:53 only to be sucked back in 23:12:26 rudybot: seen gnomon 23:12:27 *offby1: gnomon was seen joining in/on :#scheme twenty-two minutes, twenty-one seconds ago, and then gnomon was seen quitting in/on CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com four minutes, three seconds ago, saying ""yay!"", and then gnomon was seen joining in/on :#scheme two minutes, fifty-seven seconds ago 23:13:45 Riastradh, I *finally*, *finally* got 3D acceleration to work on my G45 motherboard. 23:14:12 All it took was a kernel recompile and a bunch of manual hacking to completely bypass the X autodetection/EDID subsystem. 23:14:18 Now I can play Doom with coloured lights! 23:14:26 G45? Is that some hybrid G4/G5 PowerPC model? A 36-bit PowerPC, perhaps? 23:16:55 It's Intel's latest embedded graphics chipset, which I've chosen because although the hardware is only moderately acceptable when compared to 3D hardware two generations back, at least they have a clueful driver policy. 23:17:04 ...for all the good it's done me, of course. 23:17:21 Did we somehow return to 1997? I remember going through that ritual back then. 23:20:17 *sigh* intel integrated 23:21:12 I just assume nothing fancier than 800x600 graphics will work ... that way I'm never disappointed 23:29:04 Graphics? 23:29:06 What's that? 23:29:23 It's a way to make tty characters prettier. 23:29:25 Riastradh, this way I can fit more text on my screen with nicer rendering ;) 23:29:27 Oops, I gave myself away. I ought to have written: `What are those?' 23:31:03 -!- AmandaSoire_ [n=mts82@c-66-31-48-50.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:33:59 vixey, earlier I asked whether you could make your CPS converter generate properly tail recursive code and not duplicate conditional continuations. It may be helpful to observe that you need to tell the converter at each point where you use a continuation what you want to use it for (e.g., invoke it for simple expressions, pass it to procedures for combinations, &c.), and for each continuation to know how it should be used for e 23:34:43 "it should be used for e"..? 23:34:58 that's strange gnomon, I didn't see the 'e' at the end 23:35:13 tickingaway [n=tmcclory@96.245.90.45] has joined #scheme 23:35:22 ...each purpose. See for details: a `continuator' is an object that encapsulates information about a continuation: how to reify it for procedure calls, how to optionally reify it for conditional continuations, how to invoke it with a simple expression, &c. 23:36:02 ah I see 23:36:11 ok thanks for the idea 23:37:17 Instead of an explicit object for storing this information, you will probably want to store it implicitly in the control flow in (RESET ... (CPS ) ...). 23:42:20 Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-3-168.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 23:42:41 -!- tickingaway [n=tmcclory@96.245.90.45] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:50:13 -!- Guest30181 [n=mike@dslb-088-066-241-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:51:20 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 23:53:03 -!- moghar [n=moghar@157.185.jawnet.pl] has left #scheme