00:00:34 and others. and it's not particularly hard to start a new search engine. five were launched in 2008. 00:01:19 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE266.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:01:32 but which one do you use? 00:01:42 I use google because i think it's the best one 00:01:43 which one has a page ranking algorithm 00:01:47 that people build entire sites out of 00:01:58 and which one is trying to get businesses to use it as a platform for all their information 00:02:18 i really don't understand your position. google is too successful, so we should punish them? 00:02:34 sort of 00:02:43 well then that's disgusting 00:02:44 if google's success is contingent upon everybody else's suffering 00:02:45 hml_ [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 00:02:47 or moving in that direction 00:02:48 it's not 00:02:52 it is 00:03:10 you use linux/BSD? 00:03:27 you know anything about economics? 00:03:35 yes 00:03:46 johnnowak: Probable troll you know that right? 00:03:57 don't call me a troll when i express my opinion 00:04:05 r2q2: no, i think he's genuinely ignorant 00:04:07 call me a troll when i express the opposite of my opinion 00:04:12 johnnowak: oh man thats worse. 00:04:19 r2q2: it is. 00:04:22 mpeter: Forgive me then. 00:04:35 i'm not ignorant by any means 00:04:35 mpeter: I am sorry very sorry. 00:04:50 mpeter: if you're questioning the idea that google can create wealth, i don't see how you can claim any understanding of economics 00:04:53 and i find i understand economics better than most of the people i meet 00:05:28 well, they take existing technologies 00:05:31 add proprietary extensions 00:05:40 and then throw information at everybody, basically 00:05:46 all the information they can get their hands on 00:05:57 at the same time 00:06:10 they're trying to become a platform for businesses and individuals to store their information on 00:06:16 such that the world's information is entirely in their control 00:06:19 mpeter: Well those are some valid points 00:06:23 at that point, it's costly for the business and impractical for the individual 00:06:26 to change infrastructure 00:06:33 mpeter: Is it ethical for a place to store ALL information. 00:06:39 as instead of simply adding on additional pieces of software as needed 00:06:41 mpeter: businesses are free to not do business with google 00:06:44 mpeter: No matter what organization is? 00:06:53 mpeter: The point is you don't have to do business with google. 00:06:58 johnnowak: that's true, but do they have the sense to? 00:07:05 did americans have the sense to not shop at target and walmart? 00:07:11 or mcdonalds? 00:07:30 it doesn't matter if you don't like mcdonalds. you don't get to punish them for being successful. 00:07:33 mpeter: It makes good business sense to do business with google. 00:07:41 johnnowak: We do that already with taxes. 00:07:46 you do when they use the leverage from their monopoly to lock you into their terms of business 00:07:48 r2q2: too much, yes. 00:07:52 *mbishop* wonders where Riastradh is when you need him to gently poke the channel back on topic 00:08:01 Whatever lets talk about scheme now. 00:08:11 *johnnowak* sighs 00:08:13 I found this cool language called clean 00:08:14 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:08:25 what's it like 00:08:37 It has much more to do with my automata that I have defined. 00:08:43 http://clean.cs.ru.nl/ ? 00:08:50 Yea that sounds right 00:08:59 clean seems to have a pretty good compiler 00:09:09 Thats because its all graph rewriting no monads 00:09:10 this looks nice 00:09:16 no monads? 00:09:17 etc.. 00:09:23 symbolic reduction etc.. 00:09:29 I have to play with it more to truely understand it 00:09:34 clean doesn't seem to run on much of anything 00:09:47 Yea thats a problem. 00:09:48 mpeter: it uses uniqueness typing instead of monads to control effects 00:09:55 well clean is old and (until recently) closed source, I do believe 00:10:08 uniqueness typing? 00:10:21 mpeter: It is open sauce now. LGPL. 00:10:24 mpeter: ensures a value is singly-referenced when it is used in certain ways 00:10:24 yikes 00:10:29 update function arguments destructively? 00:10:37 No. 00:11:06 mpeter: yes, you can do destructive update, but the side effects aren't visible elsewhere because nothing else sees the same piece of data 00:11:20 haskell lets you do the same thing, albeit a different way 00:11:25 that sounds useless 00:11:29 mbishop, it works better to write my name at the beginning of a message. 00:11:31 it's not useless 00:11:37 ;) 00:13:20 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:13:47 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:14:45 Anyways because of the way that clean does graph rewriting I think its a more useful inspiration than haskell. 00:14:52 It is more applicable to my work. 00:16:27 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 00:16:30 -!- hml_ [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["leaving"] 00:17:19 r2q2` [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:18:11 Riastradh: It was just to scare them anyway :P 00:18:45 *johnnowak* cowers in fear 00:19:29 emma_ [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 00:20:51 hi emma_ 00:21:06 -!- r2q2` is now known as The-crying-man 00:21:19 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:21:25 -!- The-crying-man is now known as r2q2 00:21:57 kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:23:53 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 00:24:10 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Client Quit] 00:27:08 hi. 00:27:24 NorthStar [i=email@89-180-200-184.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 00:27:36 -!- emma_ is now known as emma 00:29:19 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:29:41 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:30:07 Adamant 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connection] 01:21:46 -!- levi [n=user@levi.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Success] 01:23:38 levi [n=user@levi.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 01:28:05 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:36:12 pjb3 [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:43:52 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:46:45 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:52:35 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:52:38 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:53:16 fishey [n=fisheyss@ool-4573344b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 01:57:29 -!- tsbtmn [n=tsbtmn@unaffiliated/tsbtmn] has quit ["leaving"] 02:02:24 doug [i=doug@breakout.telerama.com] has joined #scheme 02:02:27 who 02:02:29 a 02:02:56 > The object ("o" "o" "f" " " "o" "f" " " "f" "o" "o"), passed as an argument to string-append, is not a string. 02:03:06 durn thing 02:03:14 *i* know what i mean 02:04:39 doug: you can do (apply string-append ) 02:04:51 doug: although you probably just want 'list->string' 02:05:09 no. no you don't. scratch that. 02:05:15 yeah, tried that first. 02:05:52 cool, apply was what i was thinking... 02:05:54 thanks jonnowak 02:06:19 <_Pb> why doesn't it work with list->string? 02:06:22 rudybot: eval (list->string (map (lambda (s) (string-ref s 0)) '("o" "o" "f" " " "o" "f" " " "f" "o" "o"))) 02:06:22 johnnowak: ; Value: "oof of foo" 02:06:32 _Pb: list->string takes a list of chars, not strings 02:06:40 <_Pb> oh, okay 02:12:53 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 02:23:08 Riastradh: You around? 02:23:57 No. 02:24:40 Riastradh: Alright. :) I guess I won't ask you whether your stream.scm in parscheme can be replaced by SRFI-41 or not. 02:24:45 It's different, right? 02:24:49 Probably. 02:24:57 I don't trust SRFI 40 or SRFI 41. 02:25:02 I was confused by the name lazy-streams. 02:25:09 (I'm celebrating Patrick McGoohan now.) 02:25:22 *arcfide* raises a curious and confused eyebrow. 02:25:52 John Drake, number six, passed away this week. 02:29:50 Are there any schemes that target j2me / blackberries? 02:30:35 oh wait found a lisp nevermind 02:34:50 -!- doug [i=doug@breakout.telerama.com] has left #scheme 02:35:25 what's it called? 02:38:32 -!- nothingHappens_ [n=nothingH@12.152.199.77] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:42:55 http://jnil.org/ 02:42:57 benny` [n=benny@i577A08CE.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 02:43:02 its maclisp based so errr 02:45:00 still pretty raw based on that description heh 02:45:33 Yea... 02:45:34 oh well 02:46:06 Maybe I can run rabbit on it and have rrs.... 02:46:44 -!- pitui [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:50:54 -!- Gorgoroth [i=Gorgorot@195-132-141-240.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 02:56:58 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A02EA.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:04:53 Riastradh: He was not a number! 03:06:01 -!- pjb3 [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:07:19 geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-23-87-156.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 03:07:28 Gorgoroth [i=Gorgorot@195-132-141-240.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #scheme 03:07:28 Adamant: He was a free variable. 03:07:54 r2q2: he was real unless declared integer 03:11:41 I would like to see a derivation of god : real 03:12:52 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:13:02 Eh, most likely god has to be an complex number. 03:13:26 Subset of him is real. 03:13:31 But some is imaginary. 03:15:10 tizoc [n=user@r190-133-129-104.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 03:16:05 nope 03:16:07 all imaginary 03:17:29 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-133-129-104.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit] 03:18:07 tizoc 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[n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 07:46:02 mib_ahzzw6fd [i=ca33b7d2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ad48d7c07e187bdb] has joined #scheme 07:46:15 jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 07:47:22 hi 07:47:43 anybody are interseted to take my class 07:48:12 ok 07:48:22 what are you teaching 07:49:21 english 07:49:41 my problem in grammar 07:50:39 are you using an online translator to talk in this channel? 07:51:33 i dont know about this 07:51:34 pls say me details 07:51:47 heh 07:52:13 mib_ahzzw6fd: what class are you teaching? 07:52:26 at least ho did not ask you for "ASL" :) 07:52:31 *he 07:52:53 donde esta el biblioteca 07:53:13 say me about your mother 07:53:14 tranceformation of sentence 07:53:26 sentences in what language? 07:53:41 my mother is very well 07:53:54 tranceformation.. is there like a jungletranceformation as well? 07:54:02 assertive sentence 07:54:13 competent dwarf 07:54:23 moist flavor 07:54:42 damaged spleen 07:54:55 universal apple 07:55:06 my hovercraft is full of eels 07:55:07 beaver party 07:55:17 why u abused me? 07:55:27 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:55:49 wheres the beef? 07:55:59 mib_ahzzw6fd: you watch monkey tennis? 07:56:17 mib_ahzzw6fd: we're amused by the idea of someone who teaches grammar but has no apparent grasp of it, I think 07:56:33 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 07:56:55 I thought "to take my class" was a mistranslation.. 07:56:59 -!- mib_ahzzw6fd [i=ca33b7d2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ad48d7c07e187bdb] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 07:57:25 it must be 07:57:35 u abused him tu much 07:58:45 all i did was a python reference, that's universal 08:01:35 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:09:47 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:12:44 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-155.naist.jp] has quit [] 08:16:29 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-155.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 08:21:41 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["bye"] 08:27:02 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 08:32:49 sheep2 [n=Daniel@adsl-76-226-115-69.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 08:33:19 hi all 08:33:48 You know you don't have to be a sheep. 08:34:13 I've recently started looking into scheme and lisp in general 08:34:23 There ya go! 08:34:25 are there any good beginner's books about scheme? 08:34:37 many great ones! 08:34:50 foof: sheep's an inside joke 08:34:55 SICP, HTDP, etc 08:35:18 is an "inside joke" recursive? 08:35:20 sheep2: so's foof ;) 08:35:36 :D 08:35:56 sheep2: in the topic, you want to read SICP and HTDP. 08:36:24 alright 08:36:45 but those 2 books are theory heavy aren't they? 08:37:19 hum, I don't know how heavy is a byte 08:37:30 -!- synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:37:51 (though sicp may not be online for free) 08:39:03 I think i can find SICP at the university library 08:39:18 which one should i tackle first? HTDP or SICP? 08:40:17 one may find sicp a bit complex or theory heavy or whatnot, but to become a *good programmer* in any language, you just have to understand all that 08:42:40 true 08:43:03 If you're already a programmer, or have a good mathematical background, do SICP. 08:43:10 Otherwise, opinions vary. 08:43:22 kk SCIP it is then :D 08:43:25 if you have at least some programming expirience (say, 6+ months), I'd recommend sicp first 08:44:24 If all you have is 6 months, then sicp will be a disaster. 08:45:10 -!- rmrfchik [n=paul@62.117.74.154] has quit ["Client exiting"] 08:45:29 Axioplase: both books are available online, the topic lists the URLs. 08:45:56 i've been working the C++ and PHP on and off for about a 1.5 years 08:46:57 sheep2: If that's the only experience you have, then there's no clear choice between the two. 08:47:22 damn.. 08:47:44 In general, htdp tends to be more "gentle and nurturing", and sicp tends to be more like "looks -- I'm so smart I can sing the anthem backwards while hopping on one foot". 08:47:45 sheep2: Don't listen, he's biased! :) 08:48:05 heh 08:48:08 He's part of the organization that created HTDP. 08:48:10 foof: No I'm not -- you should know which book I used when I learned Scheme. 08:48:23 whcih book did you use? 08:48:27 There is no organization that created HtDP. 08:48:33 rmrfchik [n=paul@relay2.jet.msk.su] has joined #scheme 08:48:33 I used SICP. 08:48:51 In any case, as I was beginning to say before the trolls jumped in... 08:48:56 :) 08:48:56 lol 08:49:26 If you're fast in getting all kinds of programming puzzles, then SICP will be just fine, 08:50:01 so IMO (the not biased one) -- you can just begin with SICP, and if it feels like your skull is about to explode, then move to HtDP. 08:50:34 (And when you're done with that you can still go to SICP, it has been around for a few decades, and will probably not vanish any time soon.) 08:51:44 alright 08:52:05 they're both availiable online right? 08:52:17 Yes, both in the topic. 08:52:27 htdp.org and google for sicp. 08:53:39 [As for the above trolling: I am part of the PLT Scheme group, which includes the four authors of HtDP. They have some very valid reasons against SICP being used as a universal intro-level textbook. However, there are often cases of random hackers that want to learn Scheme for fun -- such people are usually above the usual intro-level course taught in universities, and SICP can be very appealing. They can even det 08:53:39 ect the nonsensical parts when they see them.] 08:54:20 :D 08:54:36 SICP uses MIT scheme right? 08:54:42 sort of 08:55:12 what's the difference between PLT and SICP scheme? 08:55:20 or is there none? 08:55:35 PLT is a family of languages. 08:55:44 SICP is a book, {PLT,MIT} Scheme is an implementation of Scheme. 08:55:47 The default language is somewhat further from SICP than MIT Scheme. 08:56:47 ahh 08:57:40 plt-r5rs (in modules start the file with #!r5rs) should work fine for SICP, modulo a few definitions 08:58:31 (or choose R5RS in the languages menu in DrScheme) 08:59:27 gotcha 09:10:35 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 09:11:20 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:17:10 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 09:20:27 -!- sheep2 [n=Daniel@adsl-76-226-115-69.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 09:21:08 jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has joined #scheme 09:30:54 -!- 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out)] 13:14:46 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 13:19:11 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["It's a job that's never started that takes the longest to finish."] 13:20:12 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:23:32 cracki [n=cracki@47-080.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 13:46:49 bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:46:49 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:51:07 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-245.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 13:53:08 -!- dsmith [i=hevu7s0e@cpe-71-74-230-225.neo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:06:39 -!- cracki [n=cracki@47-080.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:13:30 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:13:43 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 14:18:05 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@host86-147-109-90.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 14:34:10 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 14:34:26 synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:36:03 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 14:43:19 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 14:43:50 akitada [n=akitada@unaffiliated/akitada] has joined #scheme 14:45:29 underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 14:45:53 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:46:40 If I remember correctly there was a PDF file of SICP on mit.edu. Is it removed? 14:51:10 I know it's available from other sites but still. 14:52:38 wget -m the site and use htmldoc to make a pdf? 14:53:18 that's what i did with some other web-only book in order to have okular's annotations. It prob. is a violation of their copyright 14:53:42 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 14:54:01 geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-23-87-156.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 14:55:35 Maybe it's just because MIT wants people to buy a copy of the book? :p 14:57:11 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@94-116-116-199.dynamic.thecloud.net] has joined #scheme 14:59:23 i'd buy a pdf 15:05:55 -!- geckosen1tor [n=sean@adsl-68-23-87-156.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:11:36 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:18:39 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:21:11 Anyone know who "DJB" is? 15:21:59 edw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_J._Bernstein 15:22:23 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:22:33 Thanks. 15:27:19 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 15:28:47 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 15:29:28 rtra_ [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 15:32:34 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:32:42 -!- rtra_ is now known as rtra 15:33:12 a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has joined #scheme 15:38:00 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:38:59 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:39:50 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 15:53:02 akitada: there's a sicp's pdf on the topic of ##sicp 15:53:26 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@94-116-116-199.dynamic.thecloud.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:58:27 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 16:01:38 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 16:02:17 -!- jdev [i=jdev@panix5.panix.com] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:02:24 jdev [i=jdev@panix5.panix.com] has joined #scheme 16:04:56 akitada, the book's author is not in it for profit. The text of the book is available under the terms of the Creative Commons' attribution-noncomercial licence. 16:06:42 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@host86-147-109-90.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 16:09:21 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:10:56 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:14:20 annodomini [n=lambda@pool-151-203-235-220.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:15:08 -!- luz [n=davids@201.29.183.14] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:15:34 luz [n=davids@201.29.189.23] has joined #scheme 16:16:34 there is a pdf on the 6.001 zombie site 16:17:13 http://web.mit.edu/alexmv/6.001/sicp.pdf 16:17:28 http://web.mit.edu/alexmv/6.001/ if you haven't seen it before 16:18:43 -!- a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:29:30 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:31:21 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A0165.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:54:24 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:57:43 isomer`` [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 16:59:30 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw560169.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:02:29 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw560169.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:04:04 -!- isomer [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:07:26 Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 17:12:30 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw560169.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:18:17 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 17:20:56 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 17:21:14 langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 17:21:53 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:23:25 -!- dlurf [n=dlurf@c83-249-224-126.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 17:24:45 mbishop: I tried to edit the clicki, but it rejected my edit 17:27:16 foof: there is a sicp package for plt, I suspect it includes the graphics stuff 17:28:27 Can someone tell me how this combinator-parser example in PLT can be used? I'm trying to use that parser, but I even fail to get the example working. 17:29:04 I don't know which "this" you mean 17:29:50 this: http://pre.plt-scheme.org/plt/collects/combinator-parser/examples/combinator-example.ss 17:29:51 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/8ws2s6 17:30:12 as it is basically the only example available on the net, I called it "this" :) 17:30:45 open that file in DrScheme, choose the Module language in PLT, click Run 17:32:41 vixey: nothing happens 17:32:46 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@host86-147-109-90.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 17:33:30 it surely gets evaluated but I have no clue how I could use this. 17:35:45 (display result) 17:37:21 jah [n=jah@245.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 17:38:03 -!- jah [n=jah@245.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:38:15 jah [n=jah@245.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 17:39:57 langmart` [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 17:40:14 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 17:40:42 result is not defined. Maybe it's because I still don't get units but the example hasn't got any single comment in it. 17:40:42 -!- langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:40:54 Probably a bad idea to use it anyway. 17:40:58 -!- langmart` is now known as langmartin 17:42:01 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.200.168] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:42:15 Folks, "I don't know" is a better answer than making up shit. 17:42:25 (begin (system (if linux "rm -rf" "format c:")) (set! result 'SUCCESS)) :) 17:43:46 Profit!!! ? :) 17:46:18 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 17:47:32 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit [Client Quit] 17:56:18 bweaver [n=bweaver@c-68-60-17-78.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:56:38 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:57:44 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-202-150.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 17:58:13 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 17:58:31 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #scheme 17:59:35 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-23-87-156.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:02:16 <_Pb> does "teach yourself scheme in fixnum days" go deep enough? 18:03:10 <_Pb> because tspl is a chore to read, I'm wondering if I'm missing out on too much by only going through the former 18:03:52 tspl is pretty light read imo. 18:05:44 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless54.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 18:05:53 <_Pb> relatively, I guess 18:06:31 only SICP 18:07:04 <_Pb> of course i'm going through sicp at some point 18:07:24 <_Pb> it's not a complete scheme tutorial though, right? 18:07:34 <_Pb> or does it go through everything you need to know 18:07:53 I think you should read sicp and tspl, one will be more of the concepts, the other is more formal description of the language itself. 18:07:57 _Pb, only SICP 18:08:21 <_Pb> only SICP? 18:08:27 Or just read the spec 18:08:36 <_Pb> that sounds much better 18:08:40 <_Pb> SICP plus the spec 18:10:12 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-202-150.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:12:15 <_Pb> thanks guys 18:13:18 BTW you have to do all the exercises, otherwise it's useless reading sicp. 18:13:46 <_Pb> oh, of course, the problem is finding the time 18:13:54 just read SICP over and over again, it will make sense 18:14:07 <_Pb> okay 18:14:10 make the time 18:14:25 <_Pb> hmm, i still need to finish the little schemer 18:21:37 leppie: surely you meant (if linux? ...) :P 18:22:18 i thought about that :) but then i thought that only makes sense for predicates, and not varaibles 18:22:35 (linux?) then 18:22:57 perhaps :) 18:23:11 that too :P 18:23:19 _Pb: SICP is actually not a scheme tutorial at all 18:23:58 That's why it has so many 1-Star ratings on Amazon 18:24:15 that and because amazon is full of trolls :P 18:24:25 *mbishop* fixes his tongue, it won't go back in his mouth 18:34:19 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["brb"] 18:46:49 melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 18:51:03 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:52:16 jr92 [n=jr94@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 18:53:12 i can has ffi! :) 18:55:31 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE918.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:56:49 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless54.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:57:02 -!- jr92 [n=jr94@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 18:57:15 jr92 [n=jr94@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 18:57:33 -!- jr92 [n=jr94@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:57:41 jonrafkind [n=jr94@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:00:27 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 19:00:36 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 19:00:40 -!- goon12 [n=goon12@68-112-231-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:02:51 has anyone ever tried to code scheme with voice recognition? I would imagine due to the minimal and consistent syntax, it should be a lot easier than most other programming languages. 19:07:37 but you still have to say the wierd function names, how would you say append! or something? 19:08:13 you shout, or question it :) 19:09:01 you can do something to pattern matches the current environment 19:10:56 or verbalize it, like 'is something' 19:11:32 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:16:55 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:17:09 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw560169.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:17:44 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw560169.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 19:19:36 clausewitz [n=th@0x535b95eb.kjnxx11.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 19:24:42 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:25:03 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:29:06 -!- jah [n=jah@245.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:30:52 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:38:06 OPEN PARENTHESIS! 19:38:35 sim sala bim 19:51:51 and now imagine the paperclip interfering :) 19:52:18 aardvarq [i=tgAardva@student3113.student.nau.edu] has joined #scheme 19:56:16 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 19:57:01 "It looks like you're trying to write an s-expression... let me bend myself into the shape of an OPEN PARENTHESIS" 19:59:23 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 19:59:55 -!- langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:59:55 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw560169.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:02:54 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:05:07 -!- mgs` [n=mgs@unaffiliated/mgs/x-0000001] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:05:27 and then it infinite loops because of feedback :p 20:07:47 i discovered that 20:07:55 about 8 minutes after learning OF scheme 20:07:59 i learned scheme :D 20:08:57 -!- jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:19:23 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 20:21:02 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@94.219.127.12] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:21:33 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-29.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:22:51 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit ["Smoove out."] 20:32:28 -!- clausewitz [n=th@0x535b95eb.kjnxx11.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [No route to host] 20:33:53 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:34:35 fschwidom [n=fschwido@94.219.117.229] has joined #scheme 20:37:19 langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 20:41:12 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:41:40 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:44:32 -!- eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:45:11 eli [n=eli@arabic.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 20:46:18 eli: do you know why the parser-combinator documentation is not generated into a HTML page? 20:47:18 Leonidas: it's not really maintained very well. 20:48:22 true. I am trying to find out how to use it, but I have no idea how to use it. Google code search turns up only two examples 20:49:01 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:49:19 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:49:27 Leonidas: You can try the mailing list -- maybe someone has some experience with it, or you can just use the usual parser tools which are better maintained. 20:49:31 If I find out, maybe I can convert it to scribble so that people can find it easier. 20:49:57 eli: I already tried the list but didn't get an answer. 20:50:11 I should ask again, with some more specific questions. 20:50:15 That's an option too -- but given that it's so badly maintained I'd be skeptical of the utility in that. 20:50:32 Yes, being more specific always helps. 20:50:33 is it usable? 20:51:32 I was interested in combinator-parsers and not in parsing itself. Using the lex-stuff shouldn't be hard but I'd like to learn a bit more 20:52:32 otherwise I could look into http://alexicalmistake.com/2008/06/parsers-and-combinators/ 20:54:16 In that case you might be better off rolling your own code... 20:55:38 appletizer [i=user@82-32-121-88.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:56:09 ok, good to know 20:57:22 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:58:18 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 20:58:51 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-98-115-118-219.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["aunt jemima is the devil!"] 21:09:54 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 21:10:37 -!- tonyg [n=tonyg@host226.lshift.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:10:40 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:11:35 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 21:12:03 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:15:50 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-56-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 21:22:16 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-212-217-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:25:42 synthasee [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:26:43 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 21:30:57 parser combinators are horribly useless without data recursion 21:35:44 -!- synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:37:21 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 21:37:25 -!- jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:39:07 vixey: I don't know yet, need to find it out :) 21:39:21 ok don't listen to me :) 21:40:21 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 21:40:44 pjb3 [n=pjb3@dsl092-166-158.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 21:42:25 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-201-81.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:42:29 Bah, I have a phasing issue. 21:42:30 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 21:42:38 (meta-cond 21:42:40 [(or (eq? 'ti3ob mt) (eq? 'i3ob mt)) 21:42:40 (include "sys/openbsd.ss")]) 21:43:07 Let's just say that I want to INCLUDE one file instead of another depending on some set of conditions at compile time. 21:43:13 I thought to use a META-COND for this. 21:43:27 *vixey* knows how to do that in common lisp :S 21:43:43 However, the INCLUDE that I am using introduces the forms in the phase where the include is used. 21:43:47 but we don't have #+/- in Scheme 21:44:13 So, while the include is evaluated and it expands to the right forms, the definition identifiers are only visible in the expansion phase. 21:44:18 Or at least, I think this is what is happening. 21:44:33 What's the cleanest way of making sure the identifiers are introduced into the correct phase (runtime)? 21:44:45 I used to know how to do this last semester, and now I've entirely forgotten. 21:55:25 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 21:55:27 Aah! 21:59:36 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #scheme 22:00:01 -!- isomer`` is now known as isomer 22:00:15 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [No route to host] 22:02:39 arcfide pasted "One way to do it." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73891 22:14:51 -!- mjonsson [n=mjonsson@pool-71-175-134-12.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:20:33 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 22:25:34 kryptiskt [n=irc@c83-249-224-126.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 22:30:08 -!- offby1``` is now known as offby1 22:32:20 -!- pjb3 [n=pjb3@dsl092-166-158.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [] 22:33:22 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 22:35:29 austin2 [n=austinfl@fl-67-235-225-253.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 22:36:44 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:37:32 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:38:38 arcfide, you aren't really doing anything different with that LOAD-SYSTEM-FILE. 22:39:05 INCLUDE expands to definitions in the phase at which it is used. 22:39:30 Sorry, it is not clear to me what META-COND is doing; I first guessed something like COND-EXPAND. 22:40:17 That is: If META-COND expands to the consequent branch of the first clause with a true condition, then a use of your LOAD-SYSTEM-FILE will be no different from your earlier use of META-COND and INCLUDE. 22:41:44 -!- austin2 [n=austinfl@fl-67-235-225-253.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:42:07 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:42:13 austin2 [n=austinfl@fl-67-235-225-253.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 22:43:07 Riastradh: It appears that the LOAD-SYSTEM-FILE works correctly, where my initial META-COND attempt does not. 22:43:21 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:43:22 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:43:35 Is META-COND analogous to COND-EXPAND, or is (META-COND ...) essentially (META-BEGIN (COND ...))? 22:43:57 -!- CaptainMorgan is now known as CaptainHacker 22:44:02 META-COND expands itself just like COND except at expansion time, and then expands to either a BEGIN form or a call to VOID if none of the clauses matched. 22:44:16 Then that's why it won't do what you want. 22:44:20 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 22:44:20 It has nothing to do with INCLUDE per se. 22:44:28 HuH? 22:44:30 Do explain. 22:44:49 I appreciate any elucidation on phasing matters such as these. 22:44:55 Or Macros, or whatever it is. 22:45:15 You want the effect of having written (INCLUDE "sys/openbsd.ss") at the top level of the run-time phase; that is, you want the text of sys/openbsd.ss to be as if written in your original file, roughly. 22:45:43 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE918.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 22:45:52 Yes. 22:45:56 In that case, you will need (META-COND (... (INCLUDE "sys/openbsd.ss") ...)) to behave as though you had written (INCLUDE "sys/openbsd.ss"), i.e. META-COND must expand to the consequent form of one of its clauses. 22:46:05 (This is what SRFI 0's COND-EXPAND does.) 22:46:35 However, wouldn't (BEGIN (INCLUDE "file")) work the same as (INCLUDE "file") at this level? 22:46:46 Yes. 22:46:54 So, why does it not work? 22:47:00 Be specific. 22:47:07 -!- CaptainHacker [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:47:52 If I have an (INCLUDE "file") that expands to a series of definitions, then I would think that it would not make any difference to use (BEGIN (INCLUDE "file")) instead of (INCLUDE "file"). 22:48:07 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:48:10 You must specify (1) exactly what you typed, (2) exactly what you saw, and (3) exactly what you expected to see. 22:48:11 So that's why I figured it was a problem with phasing and INCLUDE. 22:48:29 Okay, I had the above at the top of one of my source files. 22:48:39 By above I mean my META-COND expression. 22:48:40 Isolate a simple example. 22:48:43 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #scheme 22:50:23 Okay, here goes. 22:50:47 arcfide pasted "blah.ss" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73897 22:51:04 arcfide annotated #73897 with "main.ss" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73897#1 22:51:25 I thought you were going to give an example of (INCLUDE ...) and (BEGIN (INCLUDE ...)). 22:51:31 arcfide annotated #73897 with "Example Session" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73897#2 22:51:49 I believe you established already that META-COND does not behave as COND-EXPAND. 22:52:02 Yes, but I was wondering why it doesn't work the way I intended? 22:52:13 You said that this wasn't an issue with INCLUDE per se? 22:52:20 What is `it', what dose `work mean', and what did you intend? 22:52:23 I was wondering what was wrong, if it wasn't INCLUDE. 22:52:25 `does' 22:52:30 Be specific! 22:52:34 I pasted the it. 22:53:04 I expected that loading main.ss would print "Yeah!" after it printed "Loaded...". 22:53:06 What you pasted yields an error because, at run-time, there was no definition of FOOBAR. 22:53:14 Right. 22:53:30 There was a definition at expand-time (possibly in a local scope, if META-COND creates local scopes). 22:53:45 Is that not because INCLUDE expands its forms and specifically the define identifier is introduced at the expansion level, rather than at run time? 22:53:46 Right. 22:53:49 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-121-88.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:54:03 INCLUDE expands to the forms in the file named (I presume). 22:54:40 Yes, but according to the manual, it expands them into the same "space" as where the include was used. 22:54:42 Forget INCLUDE for a moment. 22:54:48 Okay. 22:54:54 In foo.ss, define FOOBAR. 22:55:03 Sorry, scratch that. 22:55:17 Write (BEGIN (META-COND (#T (DEFINE X 5))) X). 22:55:29 Assume X is not defined at run-time before evaluating that expression. 22:55:35 You mean, replace INCLUDE with (DEFINE FOOBAR (LAMBDA () ...))? 22:55:51 What effect does compiling and executing that expression have? 22:55:53 Or, replace the INCLUDE form with what I expected? 22:55:59 And then it still errors. 22:56:14 Forget foo.ss and main.ss and INCLUDE and FOOBAR and answer the question I just asked. 22:57:45 What do you mean by effect? 22:57:54 When I run that code, what will happen? 22:58:01 I mean, that whoe expression will evaluate to 5. 22:58:06 s/whoe/whole/ 22:58:18 Try it (and perhaps supply a definition of META-COND). 22:58:36 I did try it on the REPL and it does evaluate to 5. 22:58:45 Oh! 22:58:47 Wait. 22:59:04 Right, it will give an error that X is not bound. 23:00:06 If you want run-time definitions, which are stored in x.ss, then (INCLUDE "x.ss") inside a META-COND [as you have defined it] will not have the effect you want. 23:00:13 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:01:07 Right, so is there not some way to introduce those bindings at runtime while still using META-COND? 23:01:26 As you have defined META-COND, there is not. 23:01:43 Hrm. 23:02:03 So is the LOAD-SYSTEM-FILE method that I used the right way to go? 23:02:30 That or define a useful META-COND, not one that is just (META-BEGIN (COND ...)). 23:06:03 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:07:34 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:08:33 AmiableCrocodile [n=nimaj@d199-126-167-79.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 23:08:52 I'm trying to load this library into PLT: http://www.iogopro.co.uk/blog/files/parser-combinators.scm and after adjusting srfi-14 for srfi/14 and adding scheme/match it still complains about the match. Any ideas why? 23:10:32 -!- austin2 [n=austinfl@fl-67-235-225-253.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:11:06 PLT's scheme/match probably uses a different notation from the one used in that file. You will probably need to change other things, too, such as PRINTF and DEFINE-MACRO. 23:11:17 expand: unbound identifier in module (transformer environment) in: match 23:11:52 Riastradh: yes, I'm planning to change that too, by fixing stuff, running, fixing, running until it works 23:12:06 Even if PLT's scheme/match implements the same notation, you will still need to require it in the expand-time phase, not the run-time phase. 23:12:33 The noatation seems to be the same: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/match.html#(form._((lib._scheme/match..ss)._match)) 23:12:50 Also note that this parser combinator library is not space-safe; you are likely to get a stack overflow with deeply nested choices, even for unambiguous parsing. 23:14:00 I have also found this one: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/reinyannyan/20080812/p1 23:14:24 That has exactly the same problem. 23:14:42 but basically, currently it is only for learning purposes. 23:14:51 Is there any usable library? 23:15:11 does not inherently exhibit the same space safety issues. 23:15:28 Leonidas: quick note (I'm not really here): the default scheme/match syntax is close to what you see on that page, just translate a pattern like (x y) to (list x y) or to `(,x ,y). 23:16:12 Riastradh: thanks. Yahoo somehow didn't find it. 23:19:59 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:20:28 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:20:33 eli: ok, thanks, match works now. 23:20:48 pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 23:23:13 iec [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has joined #scheme 23:23:58 i'm running PLTscheme - what's the escape character for a new line in the middle of a string? 23:24:20 i've tried #\newline and \n but both simply print out. 23:24:56 (display "Hello\nWorld") works here just file 23:24:58 *fine 23:25:11 rudybot: eval (display "foo\nbar") 23:25:12 zbigniew: ; stdout: "foo\nbar" 23:25:35 well, it works in mzscheme 23:25:56 In DrScheme too. 23:26:19 drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 23:26:46 thanks all! i wasn't display-ing, so when i was returning the plain old strings they would still show up. 23:26:51 my bad. 23:27:02 there ya go 23:31:55 tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has joined #scheme 23:34:22 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:40:56 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:42:58 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:44:11 halfcore [i=noam@ip136-63-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 23:44:17 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:44:42 Riastradh: In your s48-packages.scm file of parscheme, you use DEFINE-RECORD-DISCLOSER. 23:44:49 It seems to come from SRFI-9. 23:44:57 However, I cannot find it in the document. 23:45:19 What is this doing? 23:49:32 No, it doesn't. 23:50:31 Riastradh: Okay, so...Scheme48 procedure? 23:53:30 Where can I find out what DEFINE-RECORD-DISCLOSER does? 23:53:53 bweaver_ [n=bweaver@c-68-60-17-78.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:54:00 Aaaah... 23:54:10 You could Google it... 23:54:14 http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/projects/s48/0.57/manual/s48manual_42.html 23:54:14 I have an old version of the Scheme48 Reference manual. 23:54:22 hit #1 23:55:43 -!- iec [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:55:48 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:55:50 (open (subset define-record-types (define-record-discloser))) 23:55:53 No manual needed. 23:56:09 iec [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has joined #scheme 23:56:11 -!- akitada [n=akitada@unaffiliated/akitada] has quit [] 23:58:56 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-245.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"]