00:00:10 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:00:10 -!- XTL [i=t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:01:57 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:05:25 hark [n=strider@2001:5c0:1101:7000:223:4dff:fe7d:331a] has joined #scheme 00:07:56 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:10:46 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 00:11:24 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:11:41 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:11:43 Adamant_ [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:19:23 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Network is unreachable] 00:22:35 I have the following for-each: 00:23:03 -!- spooneybarger [n=spooneyb@cpe-74-73-111-254.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:23:40 (for-each (lambda (env-vars) (display (car env-vars)) (display " = ") (display (cdr env-vars)) (newline)) (getenv)) 00:24:39 If I run that piece of code in the interpreter (scm) it works just fine. I put it into a script and it will not work. 00:24:48 jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has joined #scheme 00:25:46 mns_: how does it not work? 00:25:56 I keep getting the following error: 00:26:10 Wrong number of args given # 00:28:05 mns_: are you sure you don't have to give 'getenv' the variable name? 00:28:18 e.g. (getenv "PATH") 00:28:41 oh -- sees not. 00:28:58 strange. no idea.. would try the scm list 00:29:22 no .. this is using srfi-98 .. 00:29:56 so getenv by itself will return a list of paired lists) 00:30:29 srfi-98 only defines then call (get-environment-variable str) and then call (get-environment-variables) 00:30:38 s/then call// 00:30:45 g 00:30:46 ugh 00:30:56 mns_: try then call (get-environment-variables) 00:31:02 *johnnowak* kicks his clipboard 00:31:15 mns_: try (get-environment-variables) 00:34:07 SRFI-98 Appendix states that for scm (get-environment-variable) is (getenv name) and for (get-environment-variables) it is (getenv). Besides (Get-environment-variables) gives an unbound variable error. 00:34:32 bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@CPE0016b6145127-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:34:46 well then either the srfi is wrong or scm is wrong and you should probably try the scm list 00:37:21 ok 00:40:28 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:45:36 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE0016b6145127-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:49:09 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-166-177.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 01:01:17 mgs` [n=mgs@unaffiliated/mgs/x-0000001] has joined #scheme 01:02:08 FYI, the problem was that scm which I had built from the latest sources (to get the SRFI-98 support), but when running it from my web server as a cgi script it was missing an environment variable pointing it to the correct location for slib. That's why it wouldn't work. 01:03:14 dlurf [n=dlurf@c83-249-224-126.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 01:05:27 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:05:51 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has joined #scheme 01:08:14 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-236-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 01:08:32 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-11-138.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:10:49 -!- Jimi___Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:14:20 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 01:21:32 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 01:24:53 luz [n=davids@201.29.239.179] has joined #scheme 01:25:20 Been a while since I've used SCM/SLIB. Thanks for the reminder. 01:29:26 -!- levi [n=user@levi.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:30:27 austin2 [n=austinfl@fl-67-235-225-253.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 01:30:57 hi all 01:31:14 is this room an appropriate place for beginner questions? 01:32:33 -!- austin2 [n=austinfl@fl-67-235-225-253.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:32:48 austin2 [n=austinfl@fl-67-235-225-253.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 01:32:56 hello? 01:33:20 austin2: yes 01:33:49 oh hi. how come so quite here for so many users 01:34:24 maybe something wrong with my IRC client? 01:35:54 gecko, you still there? 01:37:41 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 01:38:34 hello? 01:39:02 jimi_hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #scheme 01:39:44 no there is nothing wrong with your irc client 01:40:21 austin2: well there might be, but nothing is happenning ;-) 01:40:48 how does one return a value in scheme (or is that not schemey)? do you just put the variable at the end of the function? 01:42:02 jimi_hendrix: by convention, the last s-expression 'value' of the body of your funtion is returned 01:43:15 if i had a function: 01:43:41 (define foo ((display "foo") (read)) 01:43:42 austin2: you may ask yor question... 01:44:01 will whatever is read in be returned or will read be returned 01:44:48 oh 01:44:51 ok yey 01:45:04 ? 01:45:22 (disclaimer: i'm working on an assignment for school) 01:45:34 '(A K Q J 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2) 01:45:58 jimi_hendrix: the last s-exp is evaluated and that is what is returned, so in this case it would be what has been 'red' that would be returnewd 01:46:06 i want to take say (A D) representing ace of diamonds, and determinal its ordinal rank 01:46:22 like Ace = 1 01:46:26 K = 2 01:46:34 the thing is, i want to do it elegantly 01:46:51 is there a way to easily assign an index to each value in the list 01:47:01 ok...but that is giving me errors when i am trying to (set! x (foo)) 01:47:09 or do like a reverse lookup? 01:49:07 like for instance... i have the card '(Q D) queen of diamonds. so (get-index (car '(Q D)) '(A K Q J 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2)) 01:49:29 is there such a primitive? 01:49:35 jimi_hendrix: yes, you need to read something ... 01:51:02 -!- bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@CPE0016b6145127-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:51:03 (define x '(foo)) 01:51:08 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:51:19 (set! x '(foo1)) 01:51:25 try those two lines, jimi 01:51:39 ok 01:51:40 i think set! only works if the variable is previously defined? 01:51:57 its for overriding variables i think 01:52:10 hey luz any help possibly on my question? 01:52:37 thinking 01:52:38 is there a simple way to create the function "get-index" or is there a built in one like that 01:52:54 you mean get-pos ? 01:52:56 i can think of a recursive solution but i don't think thats a good/elegant way 01:52:58 ! 01:53:00 yey let me see 01:53:04 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:53:16 recursivity is elegant 01:53:18 yes 01:53:22 get-pos 01:53:26 always :-) 01:53:27 but that's not a primitive of scheem 01:53:31 scheme 01:53:33 is it? 01:53:43 no but it's very easy to wwrite one 01:53:54 i couldn't find one via google 01:54:02 and i'm super n00b 01:54:02 how many ours of sacheme did you have at the class ? 01:54:04 to scheme 01:54:09 hours 01:54:10 i'm in it now 01:54:13 its programming languages 01:54:15 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE0016b6145127-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 01:54:23 austin2 / luz i want a function that prints the message foo, gets user input, and returns that....then i want to set x to that value...or am i thinking to C-like 01:54:27 and the question i'm asking is for a very small part of much bigger prog 01:55:44 jimi_hendrix: (define (foo) (display "foo:") (read)) 01:55:57 (define my-variable (foo)) 01:57:09 ausaust: there is a list-index primitive 01:57:12 thanks 01:57:27 i had extra () in there and it messed me up 01:58:14 -!- npe [i=npe@66.112.249.148] has quit [] 01:58:18 austin2: the you can use it such as : (define (list-pos item llist pred) 01:58:18 (list-index (lambda (x) (pred x item)) 01:58:18 llist)) 01:59:36 thanks luz i'm trying it out 02:00:26 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 02:01:26 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFBC17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:01:53 austin2: list-index is not an R5RS prikitive 02:02:51 yu need to load [maybe, this depends on your scheme interpreter] SRFI-1 - List library 02:03:00 yeah i have to use r5rs primitives or write my own 02:03:05 afaik 02:03:12 it's easy 02:03:31 how many hours of scheme have you had 02:03:33 i'm thinking i just (car) off the list one by one recursively while keeping track 02:03:38 of the # i'm on 02:03:43 does that sound like a good approach? 02:04:08 there are several apporaches 02:04:30 is there not anything similar to like a dictionary in javascript... 02:04:31 here is one 02:04:39 (define (list-pos item llist pred) 02:04:39 (let ((its-length (length llist))) 02:04:39 (catch 'exit 02:04:39 (lambda () 02:04:39 (do ((i 0 02:04:40 (+ 1 i))) 02:04:42 ((>= i its-length) 02:04:46 #f) 02:04:48 (if (pred (list-ref llist i) item) 02:04:50 (throw 'exit i)))) 02:04:52 (lambda (key index) 02:04:54 index)))) 02:05:10 but catch is not an r5rs primitive eiter :( 02:05:21 where you can do (dictionary '(A K Q J 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1) '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13)) 02:05:36 then lookup by card and get the # 02:07:11 index in lists in scheme are offset so it would be 0 1 2 3 4 ... 02:07:38 true but do you see what i did.. i created key-value pairs 02:07:42 are you sure you can not load srfi-1 ? 02:08:03 whats an easy way to see if it is running in your interpretor? 02:09:59 also why is this bad syntax if i want guess to equal user input: (let guess (read)) 02:10:24 (let ((guess (read)))) 02:10:59 jimi_hendrix: you need to read a basic scheme manual 02:11:58 or pay more attention to the ()'s 02:13:16 what if i want to take two lists like: '(A B C D) and '(1 2 3 4) and make: 02:13:28 jimi_hendrix: no offense but these are really basic errors ... 02:13:30 '(A 1) '(B 2) '(C 3) 02:13:31 () 02:13:41 combine the lists 02:13:58 into something more like a key-value data structure 02:14:00 i recommand you read and consult an online manual in parallel to your tests ... 02:14:08 luz, i know 02:15:06 austin2: these are typical first grade university exercise ... you should resolv these using recursivity a a training 02:15:19 ok. 02:15:54 i can help to correct but i won't write it for you :-) [it wouldn't help would it?] 02:15:55 thanks though, this helped me in that i know there isn't an incredibly simple primitive solution. there is a library solution which isn't bad. 02:16:48 well, luz, the project is quite a bit bigger than that part, and also that's why i gave the disclaimer at the beginning. i'm very much for hard work. 02:17:19 ok...1 more basic error then im done for the night...http://pastebin.com/d44d01411...when i call (foo) it gets the input then prints foo 02:17:28 it should take just few minutes [aus:] 02:17:43 and would be a good training .. 02:17:58 do it now i'll check if you want 02:18:34 yeah i'm working on it. i actually was already, but then i thought.. there must be an index-lookup type function or something built in.. so my solution would be comparitively ugly.. but turns out there isn't quite. 02:18:49 seems like something so common it would be part of scheme's definition 02:19:22 even though, it would still be good to write your own, for traiing purposes 02:19:38 ah i see what your saying 02:19:45 your statement is sort of recursive 02:19:46 lol 02:19:53 :) 02:21:06 btw so far i think this language is amazing. maybe the best thing ever. 02:21:43 austin2, besides my weird error...agreed 02:21:46 i'm fluent in C/C++/C#/Java/vb/javascript/ect 02:21:54 cool 02:22:14 you sound just like me...knowing parts of more languages under the sun then i can count.... 02:22:37 but anyone have any idea whats up with that weird bug? 02:22:47 jimi if you haven't heard of erlang you might want to check that one out too.. functional language designed to be massively scalable 02:23:14 austin2: to become an architect, you need to become fluent with recirsivity :-) , not C, java ... this is being a technician 02:23:17 ive heard of it...sounded too out of the way to find a compiler/interperater so i didnt go past hello world...ill check it out later 02:23:33 jimi_hendrix: i couldn't get to your paste... send the complete link 02:23:40 http://pastebin.com/d44d01411 02:24:02 what are you trying to do 02:24:05 austin2, i thought engineers/architects learned FORTRAN 02:24:18 simply print a message, get a value, return the value 02:24:52 i need to send input before the message is printed...i dont want that i want the message first then the value read 02:24:54 it works 02:25:52 odd 02:25:55 hang on 02:25:58 on mzscheme it doesnt 02:26:07 do you get an error? 02:26:08 jimi_hendrix: the define i past here for yo does that 02:26:24 ? 02:26:33 (define (foo) (display "foo:") (read)) 02:26:37 austin2, no error...just a bug 02:26:40 jimi can you describe what you want 02:26:51 print a message, read a 'user input' and returns it 02:27:15 your function does that 02:27:24 what happens with it right now on your machine 02:27:32 you just don't like the (newline) maybe? 02:27:56 in C: char* foo() { char[] bar; printf("foo"); scanf("%s", bar); return bar;} 02:28:06 and right now on my machine 02:28:28 yup thats what it does except i'm not sure if printf includes a "newline" or not 02:28:49 after calling i get a new line...no prompt...until i hit enter then the message is printed...if i put a value in before enter the value is returned 02:28:55 na it doesnt...type on my part 02:29:30 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has quit [] 02:29:37 maybe the "begin" keyword would be useful 02:30:10 possibly 02:30:14 i don't think scheme functions have an explicit order of interpretation 02:30:15 XTL [i=t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has joined #scheme 02:30:18 i thought that it was just syntax suger 02:30:29 that's the nice thing about these languages 02:30:32 not much suger 02:30:38 (define (foo) (display "foo:\n") (read)) 02:30:46 no thats not it 02:32:12 well isnt (define (foo) (stuff) (here)) suger for a lambda 02:33:07 well is it working on your machine right now? 02:33:07 (define (foo) (begin (display "foo:") (read) )) 02:33:09 try that 02:33:27 lol jimi 02:33:59 if we want to talk sugar, lets discuss factories in java 02:34:11 i mean sugar for a lambda bound to foo 02:34:11 how retarded. 02:34:37 > (define (foo) (begin (display "foo:") (read) )) 02:34:37 > (foo) 02:34:37 5 02:34:37 foo:5 02:34:37 > 02:35:13 wow 02:35:17 luz? 02:35:40 #;1> (define (foo) (begin (display "foo:") (read) )) 02:35:40 #;2> (foo) 02:35:40 foo:bar 02:35:40 bar 02:35:46 solution? use Chicken :D 02:36:04 *jimi_hendrix* shrugs 02:36:08 1 ]=> (foo) 02:36:08 foo:test 02:36:08 ;Value: test 02:36:08 never tried it 02:36:15 jimi_hendrix: you need to include the 'newline character in your display string, that's why i sent (define (foo) (display "foo:\n") (read)) 02:36:16 thats what happens on mine 02:36:18 mit just crashes 02:36:24 why luz 02:36:25 ? 02:36:31 oh 02:36:34 it won't print 02:36:41 in some interpreters? 02:36:45 unless newline clears? 02:37:09 i'm using mit 02:37:10 > (define (foo) (begin (display "foo:\n") (read) )) 02:37:10 > (foo) 02:37:10 x 02:37:10 foo: 02:37:10 x 02:37:11 > 02:37:25 ok so its not newline 02:37:26 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:37:36 your input is the first x, correct? 02:37:45 and then the second x is the return value 02:37:57 and foo: should be in front of the first x. 02:37:59 all agreed? 02:38:33 jimi_hendrix: you don't need to use begin, since s-expr are evaluatd in the order you write them 02:38:33 yes 02:38:46 luz, i thought so 02:38:50 luz, why is it happening out of order? 02:39:10 is it working on your machine austin2? 02:39:16 i don't know, it's not in my interpreter [guile] 02:39:33 Welcome to MzScheme v4.0.2 [3m], Copyright (c) 2004-2008 PLT Scheme Inc. 02:39:33 > (define (foo) (begin (display "foo:") (read) )) 02:39:33 > (foo) 02:39:33 foo:bar 02:39:33 bar 02:40:14 odd 02:40:20 mbishop: don't need begin either ... 02:40:24 mbishop, you doing this inside of emacs or in the terminal? 02:40:35 just in a terminal 02:40:45 luz: I know, but I just copied the code from earlier 02:40:46 ok its emacs 02:41:20 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A06F1.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:41:44 yes jimi works on mine 02:41:55 odd 02:42:01 OH 02:42:04 ? 02:43:06 ok this may not be it but.. i think the buffer isn't flushing 02:43:08 in time 02:43:10 btw i have (global-set-key "\r" 'newline-and-indent) in my .emacs if it means anything 02:43:28 right...someone else mentioned that to me but he only knows CL so... 02:44:55 i don't know enough about scheme to know how to remedy it. but try running scheme outside of emacs like at the console/shell level if you can 02:45:02 and see if same problem happens. 02:45:15 if it doesn't, then its the way emacs in particular handles the buffer 02:45:24 it works in a console 02:45:26 or the emacs implementation of scheme your using 02:45:41 im using NT emacs 02:45:41 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:51:18 "display performs discretionary output flushing and returns an unspecified value" 02:51:24 http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/projects/scheme/documentation/scheme_15.html#SEC145 02:51:25 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/885wzy 02:51:41 so display isn't garaunteed to flush 02:51:44 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 02:51:44 before the input shows 02:51:53 arguably stupid 02:52:04 must be done for some side-effect reason i don't know about 02:52:41 ----- 02:52:46 (define (foo) (begin (flush-output) (display "foo:") (read) )) 02:52:50 try that 02:52:53 wait no 02:53:04 --- 02:53:04 (define (foo) (begin (display "foo:") (flush-output) (read) )) 02:53:09 try that 02:53:16 begin probably isn't necessary 02:53:21 but just for good measure 02:53:29 ok 02:54:14 nope 02:55:14 works! 02:55:15 ty 02:55:15 gdmnit 02:55:18 ok its definarly 02:55:28 ok its definately emacs configuration i believe 02:55:35 emacs input/output buffers 02:56:15 i'm not using emacs tho and don't have time to teach myself just yet 02:56:33 maybe try reinstalling and/or different configurations or scheme implementations 02:56:57 for all of the people on this channel its unfortunate more don't chime in 02:59:11 benny [n=benny@i577A02EA.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 02:59:34 wait you said it works 02:59:36 fuck yeah. 03:09:05 -!- langmart` [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:12:11 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 03:15:33 -!- luz [n=davids@201.29.239.179] has quit ["Client exiting"] 03:16:06 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.141.21] has joined #scheme 03:21:37 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE0016b6145127-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:23:08 troter [n=troter@EM114-48-145-251.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:24:06 raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:24:37 -!- jberg- [n=moo@241.84-48-213.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:28:02 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:30:09 -!- kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection 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[n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:18:07 raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:18:36 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["bye now"] 04:25:16 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 04:26:04 Riastradh: you write slime48 right? 04:26:11 i was looking at the gambit debugger last night, and it's awesome 04:26:24 i'm wondering ... if I wanted something like slime to interface with gambit, what would be a good first step? 04:26:37 (I've never used slime; mainly used quack / cmuscheme) 04:32:10 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 04:33:16 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 04:39:33 austin2 [n=austinfl@c-98-230-14-105.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:43:27 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:43:51 -!- jso 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-!- troter [n=troter@EM114-48-145-251.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:53:42 -!- raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:54:35 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:16:32 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:17:26 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:23:13 brandelune [n=suzume@pl096.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:27:23 hml: never! 06:28:04 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 06:32:20 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl096.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 06:32:34 brandelune [n=suzume@pl096.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:33:01 voot [n=voot@24.174.121.77] has joined #scheme 06:33:41 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl096.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:33:51 brandelune [n=suzume@pl096.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:34:46 -!- voot [n=voot@24.174.121.77] has quit [Client Quit] 06:34:48 never what? 06:35:04 i think the last suggestion I made was porting slime to gambit scheme? 06:39:53 you said "quit" 06:40:21 so it was humerous! 07:02:15 offby1 [n=fIRCuser@m240e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 07:02:32 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 07:13:25 -!- offby1 [n=fIRCuser@m240e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:15:08 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-142-107.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:23:13 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-3-121.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:24:19 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-3-121.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 07:26:23 Chime on you crazy carillon. 07:33:25 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-142-107.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 07:34:27 -!- Kusanagi 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[n=user@clair12.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 09:19:24 -!- synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:21:57 |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 09:22:52 -!- foof [n=user@clair12.naist.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 09:22:55 Jimi__Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #scheme 09:23:25 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:25:07 -!- |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:25:56 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:28:05 -!- jimi_hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:28:59 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:29:15 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:30:24 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057E07.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 09:35:44 foof [n=user@clair12.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 09:42:26 |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 09:49:56 -!- |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:53:54 raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:56:00 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-225-143.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:02:02 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:05:22 choas [n=lars@p5B0DDE1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:08:35 I've got a list of paired lists which I want to sort. How would I do that ? 10:09:17 |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 10:10:45 apparently doing (sort (get-environment-variables) string Why would  be an illegal character in scheme48? 10:47:24 (eq ' ') -> Error: illegal character read 10:47:34 Make that eq? 10:48:39 It doesn't seem to like  anywhere 10:58:35 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-30-206.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 11:00:05 la la la 11:01:58 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:05:46 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 11:05:57 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has left #scheme 11:11:34 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 11:16:07 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 11:16:08 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 11:22:09 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE266.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 11:25:25 *foof* cries at how incredibly simple and easy applescript could be, compared to the utter crap it is 11:25:42 They must've gotten high school students to design applescript. 11:27:32 foof: there's a paper on the design of applescript from HOPL III 11:27:40 really? 11:27:49 and a presentation 11:28:04 the video can be found from the ACM Portal 11:28:36 Not just the design, but the implementation, the tools, and the documentation are all absolute shit. 11:29:10 drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 11:29:37 my understanding of it is that they tried to do a lot of unorthodox stuff, like having multiple real-life language syntaxes 11:30:01 so for a while, at least, there was a Japanese surface syntax for Applescript 11:30:12 I just want a simple script that prints out the current output device. 11:31:00 I can't do this. I can't figure out how to do it by querying the system info, nor by manually opening the sys prefs gui and navigating to the right tab to find the selected device. 11:31:36 I can't even figure out how to _learn_ how to do this, or where there are any API references. 11:32:40 The docs on apple.com lead me in circles, and any scripts I find on the web that attempt similar things are broken, presumably because the GUI layout changes with every single minor release of OS X. 11:33:04 troter [n=troter@EM114-48-82-20.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:41:28 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:41:53 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:41:59 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-166-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 11:45:26 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:52:54 -!- drdo`` is now known as drdo 11:53:04 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 12:03:37 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 12:05:22 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 12:19:14 clausewitz [n=th@0x535b95eb.kjnxx11.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 12:23:22 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 12:23:34 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:24:46 -!- |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:34:05 drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 12:35:43 comglz [n=comglz@AClermont-Ferrand-257-1-72-13.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 12:36:10 -!- raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:37:24 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:37:57 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:41:55 |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 12:43:02 comglz_ [n=comglz@AClermont-Ferrand-257-1-26-72.w90-42.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 12:49:02 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:49:56 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 12:51:13 troter_ [n=troter@EM114-48-141-38.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:57:07 foof: it wasn't designed for programmers, full stop 12:57:11 -!- clausewitz [n=th@0x535b95eb.kjnxx11.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:58:04 -!- comglz [n=comglz@AClermont-Ferrand-257-1-72-13.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:59:19 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-23-87-156.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:02:35 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057E07.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:05:42 -!- troter [n=troter@EM114-48-82-20.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:09:30 jah [n=jah@116.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 13:09:55 -!- jah [n=jah@116.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:11:49 drdo``` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 13:15:54 luz [n=davids@201.19.6.15] has joined #scheme 13:23:00 clausewitz [n=th@0x535b95eb.kjnxx11.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 13:25:10 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.141.21] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:26:10 -!- drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:27:25 drdo```` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 13:34:09 -!- |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:39:39 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 13:43:26 -!- drdo``` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:46:11 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:46:41 -!- drdo```` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:47:02 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 13:48:06 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:50:16 -!- lambda [n=lambda@c-24-5-198-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:52:01 |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 13:58:22 synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:03:57 Wow. Just wow. 14:04:38 There's no possible way to iterate over the values of a record (hash-table) in AppleScript. 14:05:15 ... short of converting it to a string and writing your own custom parser. 14:05:53 can you iterate thru the keys? 14:05:58 no 14:06:06 You can't find out what the keys are. 14:06:12 lol 14:06:16 There really doesn't seem to be any introspection in the language at all. 14:06:18 secure-hashtable :) 14:07:38 use brute force :p 14:07:43 -!- synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:08:30 or write a wrapper to keep track of the keys in a list or something 14:09:44 Well, the first record I wanted to access was the result of "system info" - not something I built myself. 14:10:30 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A33A3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:12:28 Huh, AppleScript uses : as the directory separator, but that isn't supported by the shell or system calls. 14:13:07 you cant use define inside a function...correct? 14:13:28 Yes you can, but it has to come at the beginning of the procedure. 14:14:02 rudybot: eval (let ((foo (lambda () (define (bar) 3) (bar)))) (foo)) 14:14:02 foof: ; Value: 3 14:25:34 synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:33:38 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 14:35:39 jah [n=jah@116.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 14:40:52 -!- Adamant_ [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 14:46:17 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:46:46 Hey I found a much better inspiration for my language. Its still going tob e haskell like but its going to be much more clean like. 14:47:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_(programming_language) 14:51:15 -!- Jimi__Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:52:26 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:54:17 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:55:19 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 15:00:27 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:06:41 -!- hdon [n=donny@174-146-134-148.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:10:56 xwl [n=user@221.221.154.3] has joined #scheme 15:12:37 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.141.21] has joined #scheme 15:14:08 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:16:26 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:18:40 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-142-107.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:20:36 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:27:43 goon12 [n=goon12@68-112-231-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #scheme 15:28:11 JKGpp [n=juergen@dslb-092-074-123-028.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 15:31:36 -!- foof [n=user@clair12.naist.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:39:11 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 15:44:17 Fare [n=Fare@c-71-232-6-92.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:44:26 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-142-107.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 15:44:52 bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:46:31 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 15:46:44 in terms of debugging 15:47:00 nested repls w/ continuations has to be the best idea ever 15:48:53 opt9 [n=user@59.7.205.138] has joined #scheme 15:49:15 -!- jah [n=jah@116.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 15:49:58 -!- clausewitz [n=th@0x535b95eb.kjnxx11.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:54:34 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:54:53 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:56:35 -!- troter_ [n=troter@EM114-48-141-38.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:57:17 rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 15:58:38 fnord123 [n=fnord123@78-105-27-133.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:01:03 -!- xwl [n=user@221.221.154.3] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:02:20 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 16:05:51 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:11:57 -!- fnord123_ [n=fnord123@host81-151-192-51.range81-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:22:42 -!- opt9 [n=user@59.7.205.138] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:26:19 repror___ [n=reprore@EM114-48-155-169.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:26:32 dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-129-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 16:29:13 macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:32:52 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 16:38:20 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:43:11 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:43:19 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-129-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:46:46 define-structure / define-record <-- these can't actually be implemented with just if/cons/equal?/lambda/... right? as in it needs to be an actual builtin 16:47:56 hml, yes, I wrote SLIME48. 16:48:19 gambit.el has fairly close to what I have in mind 16:48:33 i'm curious what turned you off from gambit 16:48:49 since the debugger + emacs integration seems quite nice, to my naive view (from having looked only at guile, chicken, and gambit) 16:49:37 It has no remotely sensible notion of top-level environments. 16:50:12 what do you mean? it has nested repls; isn't the top most repl a top-level environment? 16:50:40 No, that has little to do with top-level environments (and macro expansion semantics). 16:50:59 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:51:11 -!- amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["leaving"] 16:52:57 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 16:54:26 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-166-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:54:38 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [Client Quit] 16:55:09 i'm not making much sense from google results besides -- does this have much to do w/ module systems? 16:55:12 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 16:56:02 Yes. 17:02:35 OT: anyone use a ebook/reader for reading documentation? (laptop battery life is too short for mreading manuals) 17:03:27 -!- repror___ [n=reprore@EM114-48-155-169.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Success] 17:03:27 I use dead trees. 17:03:29 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:04:28 hmm; i may have heard of this paper thing; the problem i have with it is that storage is O(n) volume and O(n) weight; whereas with ebook readers, for my purposes, it's O(1) volume & weight 17:05:16 It's also O(excessive) cost in dough and, if you use a DRM-encrusted one (are there any that are not?), in souls. 17:06:01 Good luck fixing the same electronic reader in ten years when a dozen new models have surpassed yours. 17:06:16 In the mean time, I can still happily read a book that has aged two centuries. 17:08:12 hml: get an OLPC 17:08:47 nan8 [n=user@dslb-088-067-017-184.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 17:09:05 Or a N810 PDA. 17:09:10 You should be able to get an ebook reader for $100, less than the cost of two dead-tree technical books. 17:09:18 did somebody write a terminal emulator (vt100 or similar) in scheme? (closes match so far is term mode of emacs) 17:10:56 ... of course, they all suck to read on, which is why I print up so many research papers on dead trees. 17:12:14 foof: remind me again, what do you do that requires both scheme and lots of research papers? 17:17:04 I do NLP, and it doesn't require Scheme, it hates Scheme with the passion of a thousand Will Clingers arguing with a thousand Bill Richters. 17:17:08 nan8: no. the people who are familiar enough with scheme to write such a thing also consider it trivial enough that anyone can implement their own, I expect. 17:17:29 terminal emulators are trivial to write? 17:17:36 i thought they're extremelely complex beasts 17:18:07 nan8: I have the makings of one... 17:19:37 hml: making them work -well- is difficult, I hear. 17:20:03 No, scratch that, I have a terminal client library... the "server" (i.e. Terminal itself) is just an outline in my head. 17:25:20 as a start i would be happy with a fixed size ascii no color terminal emulator / an emulator only keeping a matrix of characters 17:25:58 (no real output at all) 17:26:08 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 17:31:26 reprore__ [n=reprore@EM114-48-149-15.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:31:27 foof: NLP hates Scheme? 17:32:09 yes 17:32:24 Why? 17:32:45 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:32:45 repro____ [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:34:33 foof: There are several people I know very well who do a good amount of NLP in CL, and that's at a level where moving from CL to Scheme wouldn't make much of a difference. 17:35:35 It depends what you're doing in NLP. 17:36:13 I think that I've seen the whole range. 17:36:14 Most Schemes have weak string and file handling libraries. 17:36:30 ...including a *lot* of statistical NLP, not the old symbolic stuffs. 17:36:52 Most of what I do involves machine learning and statistics, which is all matrix computations, which CL can do but Scheme can't. 17:37:06 (efficiently) 17:37:25 And to my knowledge, there's not a single Scheme compiler that can generate tight, multiply nested loops. 17:37:42 [Well, perhaps you're using a weak implementation then...] 17:37:54 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:38:28 No, eli, mzscheme isn't any better than the others in this respect. 17:38:42 But seriously, I think that these things always get reduced down to a very tiny core that needs to run fast -- most of the code around it really does benefit from a good language. 17:39:12 I wasn't talking about mzscheme as compiling tight loops better -- but as something that allows talking to something like BLAS more conveniently. 17:39:27 And if what you're doing is going to take _days_ to finish computing, performance really, really matters. 17:40:23 Anyway, need to sleep... 17:41:01 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:42:28 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 17:43:09 .oO( If the best possible solution for Scheme is to call out to another language, why does that make Scheme good for NLP? ) 17:44:06 Two days of intermittent debugging "somebody else's" hairy bug, and now I find my own bloody fingerprints on the murder weapon. Of course. Darn it all to heck. 17:45:08 foof: Because that's only a tiny fraction of all the code you need to write, and you definitely don't want to be doing NLP in something like C. 17:45:33 offby1``` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 17:50:43 -!- reprore__ [n=reprore@EM114-48-149-15.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:51:38 -!- offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:54:13 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 17:59:26 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:00:21 Daemmerung: I hate when that happens 18:00:43 -!- offby1`` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:01:28 offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 18:03:06 minion: advice for Daemmerung 18:03:07 Daemmerung: #11926: That's like taking a crap on someone's doorstep and then ringing the doorbell to ask for toilet paper. 18:03:27 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:03:28 heh 18:09:20 *Daemmerung* flails ineffectually at minion 18:14:20 dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-129-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 18:15:45 eli: is there a way to get DrScheme to save files as plain text and not in its 'editor format'? 18:18:02 dlouhy: I think you have to eschew everything on the Insert menu, unfortunately including pretty-lambdas. 18:19:00 (but I could be wrong-- it's been a while since I used it) 18:22:00 can quack-mode read the drscheme format? 18:22:02 -!- comglz_ [n=comglz@AClermont-Ferrand-257-1-26-72.w90-42.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 18:24:05 -!- fnord123 [n=fnord123@78-105-27-133.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:26:10 nan8` [n=user@dslb-088-065-171-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 18:27:04 Quack-mode renders the string l-a-m-b-d-a "lambda" as a pretty-lambda. The DrScheme format uses an actual λ code instead. 18:30:04 which scheme has the best designed interface wrt accessing filesystem operations? 18:32:10 maybe scsh... 18:32:28 -!- nan8` [n=user@dslb-088-065-171-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:34:55 -!- nan8 [n=user@dslb-088-067-017-184.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:40:33 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:49:54 way OT; except healthy = more quality scheme codeing time; anyone know of a good heart rate monitor for running that does not involve chest strap ? 18:50:39 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has left #scheme 18:51:11 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 18:55:01 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 18:57:11 Jimi_Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #scheme 18:57:22 should i use (read) to read in input or some other function 18:57:46 what's an input? 18:57:53 hml, what would you use instead? Epoxy? 18:57:59 user input... 18:58:00 i ment 18:58:13 std::cin >> foo; 18:58:15 Jimi_Hendrix: and I still don't know exactly what you mean 18:58:16 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:58:20 Riastradh: something that pulls it from the arm or wrist 18:58:26 *zbigniew* gurgles 18:58:35 I don't know enough C++ to be able to guess what the type of foo there is 18:59:19 int main() { std::string foo; std::cin >> foo; return 0;} 18:59:29 whats the equiv of that in scheme 18:59:44 probably (begin) 19:00:00 Jimi_Hendrix: (read) 19:00:09 except (read) reads in an arbitrary data structure 19:00:22 Jimi_Hendrix: Why don't you just say that you want to read a line of text? 19:00:30 r5rs read-line 19:00:30 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for read-line. 19:00:42 get user input == get line of text to me...sorry 19:01:16 I thought there was read-line for some reason 19:02:00 ok...i tried read line and it just returns "\r" and doesnt wait for me to hit anything 19:02:20 User Input Questionnaire: How did you enjoy the experience of this program? Please write a detailed essay of six thousand words to thoroughly explain your experience, with carefully reasoned and defended arguments deriving evidence from at least two secondary sources. You must also deliver a PoserPoint presentation to a collection of surly programmers whose natural prey is users. 19:02:37 Jimi_Hendrix: let me guess, you are using DrScheme 19:02:52 (That's what I think when I hear `get user input'. I also start to smell blood.) 19:02:54 Riastradh: disclaimer: anyone using PowerPoint will be shot on sight 19:03:04 zbigniew: close...mzscheme in emacs 19:03:06 the correct way to present is latex-beamer :) 19:03:48 Elly: do you know of any tutorial on how to write your own custom latex-beamer style? 19:03:53 ecraven: nope 19:03:59 Jimi_Hendrix: mzscheme REPL handling of read-line is unintuitive, see http://www.cs.brown.edu/pipermail/plt-scheme/2006-January/011093.html 19:04:19 Jimi_Hendrix: for your edification, if you write a standalone scheme program, the following will behave as you expect: (begin (display (read-line)) (newline)) 19:04:31 hey Riastradh 19:04:44 ok 19:04:50 Hi. I'm being a lazy bum and allowing myself to be snowed in. 19:05:00 (which you can then run with mzscheme -r foo.scm) 19:05:01 Riastradh: i'm the same 19:05:28 ok 19:05:43 btw, arguably, `std::cin >> foo` is closest to READ, not READ-LINE, as it reads in a whitespace-delimited string and attempts to convert it into the appropriate destination type 19:05:56 wait, what? 19:05:58 Elly: READ-LINE isn't in R5RS, so that won't work on a lot of Scheme systems 19:06:17 zbigniew: "std::string foo; std::cin >> foo" attempts to do what? 19:07:21 oh, foo is a string--I don't remember if it reads the whole line then. 19:08:12 it doesn't 19:08:15 cin.getline does 19:08:40 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-11-138.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:08:58 yep, just verified. 19:09:24 So what's the conclusion? That Scheme I/O is silly, or that C++ is a poor question specification language? 19:09:40 the latter 19:09:41 do we have to pick exactly one of those? 19:09:55 I mean, we can conclude the latter without premises 19:10:29 minion: advice for C++ 19:10:30 C++: #11909: Bad programmer! No cookie! 19:11:41 ok so i should (read-line) for user input? 19:11:54 Yes. Let us know what happens. 19:12:28 Then try (read) and do the same. 19:13:16 Jimi_Hendrix: it all depends on what kind of input you want 19:13:33 ecraven: _user_ input, duh 19:13:51 if you're trying to, say, load a config file, you may find (read) too useful for words 19:14:10 unless it's an .ini file 19:14:19 in which case you should kill yourself 19:14:27 and change your config format to S-expressions 19:14:28 :) 19:15:16 zbigniew: i'd suggest ACCEPT for that :P 19:15:51 why not .ini files? 19:16:39 because READ can automagically read s-expressions, but it can't read .ini syntax 19:16:43 indeed 19:16:46 durr 19:16:48 :) 19:16:59 so if your file is in s-expressions, you need *no* further programming to convert it into a data structure 19:17:29 yep 19:17:59 but if i want the dude using my program to type something into a terminal while the program is running to make it do something i should use (read-line) 19:18:11 depends 19:18:12 not necessarily 19:18:24 if you want them to be able to type in an arbitrary scheme expression which you will then evaluate 19:18:27 then you might want read :) 19:18:29 what kind of commands is this dude typing? 19:19:02 I mean, depending on your program, your command input could just be: (eval (read)) 19:19:06 my name is jimi 19:19:14 is the input....for example 19:19:23 then you'll probably want to read a string and split it into words 19:19:41 so something like (split-string (read-line)) 19:20:13 pjb3_ [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:20:29 ok 19:20:40 or using srfi-13, (string-tokenize (read-line)) 19:20:59 clausewitz [n=th@0x535b95eb.kjnxx11.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 19:23:30 arcfide [n=arcfide@99.137.202.18] has joined #scheme 19:23:33 Hey all. 19:24:10 hey arcfide 19:26:18 srfi-13? 19:26:58 So, I was wondering if I could get some feedback from you all about my Scheme Code Tracker concept. 19:27:10 I'm implementing it this semester, and I would like to take a technical overview of my ideas. 19:28:04 I want to have a program which will facilitate the distribution of library information for Scheme. Ideally, this would be a decentralized type server where each server could mirror the other. I was thinking that I would use RDF to implement this. 19:29:29 srwences [n=srwences@c-68-84-129-84.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:29:36 It would provide information about a given library, the implementations for which it is available, and provide for a means of searching through these libraries. 19:31:11 If you want to publish a library, you could either publish the meta-information on your own server as a single file for the library, or you could submit the information to the server. Each server could pull results from other servers to mirror their contents. 19:31:34 That's the basic idea, and of course, you could write things on top of that, so long as they were all using the same RDF. 19:31:42 What thinkest ye? 19:32:20 Gorgoroth [i=Gorgorot@195-132-141-240.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #scheme 19:34:27 -!- pjb3 [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:35:03 zbigniew: How is mzscheme's repl reading unintuitive? If anything, I would classify the other repls as unintuitive because they *sometime* read extra characters after the input expression was read. 19:35:28 dlouhy: You just have to avoid any non-textual content like images etc. 19:35:53 dlouhy: But the lambda character is perfectly fine, unlike what Daemmerung said -- it's just a unicode character. 19:35:59 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:36:28 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:36:29 eli: alright, this was another persons code that was from the handin server that I am grading 19:36:50 because I did not remember it doing it before when I was using it with Emacs and DrSync 19:36:54 dlouhy: What are you grading? 19:36:57 213 19:37:10 In that case it should mostly be textual. 19:40:49 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 19:40:57 My mistake. I was remembering how Unicode lambda characters inserted by DrScheme were boogering the scheme-mode of the Emacs that I was using at the time (which might have been XEmacs-- can't recall now). 19:42:14 booger 19:42:55 It's from the Old Low Flemish "boogen," meaning to strike repeatedly with a wooden shoe. 19:43:12 it's from my nose 19:45:19 Daemmerung: Well, I don't have experience with that... I didn't use non-ascii texts in Emacs until pretty recently. (For a large value of "recent"...) 19:45:30 Daemmerung, emacs can be configured to deal properly with unicode 19:46:02 Fare: Now it's relatively easy, but it used to be a mess (which is why I avoided it). 19:47:10 it's still a mess, though less than it used to be 19:47:36 hi, eli! Howdy? When are you available for dinner? What's becoming of you? 19:48:26 Fare: Things are always unclear... But I will reply. 19:48:30 Promise. 19:49:45 I'm currently working on xcvb - http://common-lisp.net/project/xcvb/ 19:49:58 needs more random letters 19:50:06 xcvbahw 19:50:25 I'm wondering what lessons to get from Scheme, and how hard cross-language unification is under these conditions. 19:50:35 wastrel: that would be xcvbnm, 19:51:12 but , is probably not a valid character for a CL package least I escape it 19:51:52 (xcvb is a shift from asdf) 19:52:09 eli: in PLT scheme, what happens if some module attempts some side-effect at compile-time? 19:53:15 hi all comments on my little guess a number game? 19:53:16 http://pastebin.com/d53339100 19:54:47 Fare: The thing is that almost anything I'll say in that department will lead to flamage. 19:55:13 it's great! 19:55:13 your use of begin is superflous 19:55:53 Fare: In any case, in PLT, some side-effects at compile-time will just happen locally and the state will be reset in the next compilation. But some side-effects are reall side-effects that are not reset (or cannot be reset -- like doing IO). 19:56:00 is it schemey? 19:56:43 Fare: The important thing, IMO, is to avoid all side-effects when it gets to compiling code -- that's why I think that MzScheme's `#reader' and `#lang' are much better than just banging on the global readtable. 19:58:17 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 19:59:18 Jimi_Hendrix, my first program was also that game, back in the days, in Applesoft BASIC! 19:59:52 eli: what enforcement of side-effect isolation is there? 20:00:12 for xcvb, I'll fork at every compile-file 20:02:04 Fare: forking for every file sounds like it will get what it should get, but it might be too slow for big compilations. 20:02:26 (But perhaps it's worth it given the swamp you can find yourself in otherwise.) 20:03:11 In any case, an additional thing in PLT is the phase separation, which is probably hopeless to get to in a CL world -- but perhaps the forking will get the system deterministic enough so it won't matter. 20:03:30 so Jimi_Hendrix how do i run that program/ 20:03:35 what phase separation? 20:03:36 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-237-96.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 20:05:16 hi all. does anyone know of any scheme dialects/implementations that disallow set! and friends? 20:05:51 i am aware of termite (which doesn't have assignment etc in theory) 20:05:54 hml: I'm talking about PLT. 20:06:16 macdice, why don't you just not use SET!? 20:07:14 raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:07:18 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:08:41 well what i'm interested in is finding out about languages that disallow it, to see if they did interesting things with multicore programming, and how they handled the global environment 20:09:19 I think you would enjoy reading CTM then 20:09:26 (but it's not about Scheme) 20:09:45 Jimi_Hendrix: play again didn't work on mine 20:10:53 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:13:46 vixey: looks very interesting, will definitely get myself a copy 20:15:49 -!- pjb3_ [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:16:32 was CTM originally written in english or french? 20:16:47 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-71-232-6-92.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:17:02 what's ctm ? 20:17:10 Fare [n=Fare@c-71-232-6-92.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:17:28 i assume vixey was talking about this book: http://www.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/book.html 20:17:43 the "programming paradigms poster" is nice :-) 20:19:17 okey dokey 20:19:19 thanks :] 20:19:51 perhaps i will put that poster up in my cube farm to gaze at wistfully next time i'm buried up to my eyeballs in buggy fortran or c 20:20:19 :( 20:20:42 eli: yep, so what is this multiphase cool thing in plt? 20:20:47 eli: it sounds cool, but i know nothing about it 20:20:59 removing bugs is also known as adding busg 20:21:04 removing bugs is also known as adding bugs* 20:22:35 aardvarq [i=tgAardva@student3113.student.nau.edu] has joined #scheme 20:26:55 hml: Roughly speaking it means that the world where syntax-transformers live in is separate from the world plain code lives in. 20:27:01 For example: 20:27:09 rudybot: eval (define a 123) 20:27:36 rudybot: eval (define-syntax (foo stx) (datum->syntax #f a)) 20:27:40 rudybot: eval (foo) 20:27:41 eli: error: reference to undefined identifier: a 20:27:52 rudybot: eval (define-for-syntax a 987) 20:27:56 rudybot: eval (define-syntax (foo stx) (datum->syntax #f a)) 20:27:57 rudybot: eval (foo) 20:27:57 eli: error: compile: bad syntax; literal data is not allowed, because no #%datum syntax transformer is bound in: 987 20:28:29 This error indicates that there is not even the elemantary syntax for datums at the syntax world by default, so: 20:28:37 rudybot: eval (require (for-syntax scheme)) 20:28:42 rudybot: eval (define-for-syntax a 987) 20:28:44 rudybot: eval (define-syntax (foo stx) (datum->syntax #f a)) 20:28:46 rudybot: eval (foo) 20:28:46 eli: error: compile: bad syntax; literal data is not allowed, because no #%datum syntax transformer is bound in: 987 20:29:00 (Well, that should have worked...) 20:29:15 maybe it refuses to load libraries? 20:29:27 (as a security measure) 20:29:38 No, it should allow loading the `scheme' library... 20:30:00 (datum->syntax #f a) <-- that #f is suspect 20:30:23 Oh, right -- sorry. 20:30:37 rudybot: eval (define-syntax (foo stx) (datum->syntax stx a)) 20:30:41 rudybot: eval (foo) 20:30:41 eli: ; Value: 987 20:31:03 *hml* is pondering over eli's comments on syntax-transformers 20:32:29 eli: ah, i think i get it; it's almost likie lisp1 -> lisp2 for functions / values; but this instead separates macros/functions? 20:33:41 hml: It's not really related to lisp1 vs lisp2. 20:33:47 -!- brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 20:33:50 -!- clausewitz [n=th@0x535b95eb.kjnxx11.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [No route to host] 20:34:03 It's more like running the transformations in a different process, so you cannot share runtime code between the two. 20:34:33 The good effect it has is in making sure that macros don't depend on runtime code -- and that contributes to a bunch of things. 20:35:00 For example, it makes compilation more deterministic -- a common problem in the CL world (which Fare is trying to fight with). 20:35:29 ah, so it's purpose is to make macros / syntax transformers easier to understand? 20:35:36 s/understand/reason about 20:35:45 Yes. 20:36:25 You hit the nail right on its head: when people complain about this separation, then they're almost always doing something wrong. 20:36:56 A common example is making a macro that depends on the runtime binding of a value -- for example, a macro that depends on a specific class. 20:37:46 *hml* thinkgs 20:38:24 if only there was a sane lisp implementation on top of which I could have Scheme or CL skins. 20:38:36 s/was/were/ 20:38:38 do you mean common examples = "depending on the runtime binding of a value, a macro expands into _different_ pieces of code" or "the code the macro expands to is constant, but it does diferent things based on a run time value"? if the latter, it's trivially true; if it's the former, I don't believe it's possible 20:39:17 I mean the former -- and it is possible without the phase separation. 20:39:25 Possible, but often leads to bugs. 20:39:25 how? 20:39:42 Here's a more concrete example. 20:40:01 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 20:40:12 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 20:40:20 Say that I have some simple defstruct, something like: (defstruct foo (x y z)) -- defines a struct name `foo' with fields called `x', `y', and `z'. 20:40:42 hmm; not to be a jerk 20:40:47 Now, it would be nice to wrap these accessors in some useful `with' macro, say something like this: 20:40:53 do you think it'd be possible to paste scheme code? 20:41:01 oh wiat, i'll listen, yuou're building up to it 20:41:14 (No -- in PLT you can't do it...) 20:41:29 Anyway, I'd want to write a foo macro that will make this work: 20:41:35 (define blah (make-foo 1 2 3)) 20:41:44 (with blah (* x y z)) 20:41:45 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:42:09 I'd want the `with' macro to figure out that I'm dealing with a `foo' struct, so it should bind `x', `y', and `z'. 20:42:24 That's not possible unless I can actually get the runtime value of `blah' in the macro. 20:42:30 -!- Jimi_Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:42:36 and what scheme allows you to do this? 20:42:41 if none, does lisp all you to do this? 20:42:58 Yes, and it will involve `eval' in some form. 20:43:13 That is -- the macro will need to figure out what the value of `blah' is. 20:43:34 But I see that you're having problems with that -- and this is for a good reason. 20:44:05 this is super x-ray vision; you can see over irc, tunnelig througn the electrons 20:44:07 For example: (define (whatever x) (with x ...stuff...)) is impossible to compile, because there is no runtime value for `x'. 20:44:43 (Not x-ray, but your questions are going in that direction, starting with the fact that you think it's not possible.) 20:45:23 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 20:46:18 (Basically, at this point in such a story some people will think "how could that even be possible", and some will think "why shouldn't this be possible".) 20:47:32 yome [n=guillaum@70.48.78.163] has joined #scheme 20:49:14 -!- yome [n=guillaum@70.48.78.163] has quit [Client Quit] 20:50:09 i'm asking both questions 20:50:33 aren't all the macros all transformed at read/parse time? 20:50:40 how can it know the value of any 'define' ? 20:53:51 You're asking the first question here. 20:54:22 Macros are transformed at syntax-expansion time, which comes before evaluation begins, so there are no runtime bindings to talk about. 20:54:53 so how is this possible in lisp? 20:55:36 or rather, what is the lisp model of execution that makes people ask "why shouldn't this be possible" 20:56:59 The thing is that if there is no separation, then bindings will be available on both levels. 20:57:03 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:57:22 Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 20:57:30 So you might be able to use a runtime value in your macro -- and nothing will complain about you doing so. 20:57:50 but these bindings are undefined when the macros expand 20:57:54 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-3-121.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:58:00 s/when/at the point in time at which 20:58:13 It might be just because you entered expressions on the repl in a specific order, or because you `load'ed file in a specific order. In both cases you get a hidden dependency that can bite you later on. 20:58:35 (I'm talking about the first case, when there was no error.) 20:58:37 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@95.34.27.156.customer.cdi.no] has joined #scheme 20:58:49 If there was an error then you're lucky to have caught the mistake early on. 20:59:01 quick question: what is 2^10 in Scheme? 20:59:15 why isn't it 1024? 20:59:16 rudybot: eval (expt 2 10) 20:59:16 eli: ; Value: 1024 20:59:42 thanks eli :-) 20:59:49 exp made more sense in my head... 21:00:07 `exp' is something else. 21:00:12 rudybot: eval (exp 1) 21:00:12 eli: ; Value: 2.718281828459045 21:00:20 yeah, I figured out that pretty quick :P 21:00:23 Jimi_Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #scheme 21:00:34 how would one make an irc bot in scheme? 21:00:57 Like in any other language 21:01:17 -!- Lemonator [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:01:21 ie, you either use or create an IRC lib and write a program around it 21:01:47 Lemonator [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 21:02:48 anyone got an irc lib? 21:03:05 or a good socket tutorial (btw would sockets in scheme bet platform independent?) 21:03:18 No. 21:03:25 *vixey* wonders what a platform is 21:03:37 platform = operating system 21:05:03 Jimi_Hendrix: sockets in Scheme mostly depend on your implementation 21:05:18 :( 21:05:22 mzscheme 21:05:23 so if you find an implementation that works on all of your platforms, you probably have the same interface on all of them 21:05:50 which will work on all of platforms...now for a sockets tutorial 21:06:31 Jimi_Hendrix: You'll usually need more than just (network) sockets. 21:06:50 Jimi_Hendrix: You can read through http://docs.plt-scheme.org/more/ for many examples in mzscheme's case. 21:07:06 ok...then what will i need? 21:07:25 and platform != operating system ;) 21:07:33 Cygwin is linux, but the operating system is windows 21:07:37 Threads, timers, memeory management, etc etc. 21:07:55 Cygwin is Linux for relatively small values of "Linux". 21:08:21 ...i just want it to be portable 21:09:04 Jimi_Hendrix: What people are trying to say is that "portable" can mean different things -- portable among different languages, different scheme implementations, different OSs. 21:09:22 different OS's 21:09:27 Jimi_Hendrix: if you write it for mzscheme, it will probably run wherever mzscheme runs 21:09:32 ok 21:09:49 In that case, MzScheme is portable on Linux and other Unixes, OSX, and Windows. 21:10:05 (Which means that your code will be portable across these.) 21:10:31 -!- repro____ [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:13:38 pjb3 [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:17:03 right...because i doubt anyone still uses BeOS i am content with that 21:17:44 -!- Lemonator [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:18:20 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:18:57 Someone should make caracatures of a given subset of the channel as web bots and put them in a channel called #scheme-caratures 21:19:44 ? 21:20:35 Bots that imitate others on the channel. 21:21:30 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:21:46 nevermind 21:22:40 ejs1 [n=eugen@92.49.236.160] has joined #scheme 21:27:43 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-30-206.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:30:48 -!- Jimi_Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:31:00 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:34:46 rcassidy [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has joined #scheme 21:38:38 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-11-138.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:41:23 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:42:06 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:43:57 rcassidy_ [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has joined #scheme 21:43:57 -!- rcassidy [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:44:13 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:45:39 nothingHappens_ [n=nothingH@12.152.199.77] has joined #scheme 21:47:53 -!- raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:48:25 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 21:51:31 -!- kilimanjaro is now known as thermopylae 21:51:53 EnderMB [n=ultimate@77-99-20-67.cable.ubr09.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:52:10 -!- thermopylae is now known as kilimanjaro 21:52:28 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 21:52:37 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:54:54 -!- EnderMB [n=ultimate@77-99-20-67.cable.ubr09.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 21:59:11 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-71-232-6-92.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:02:48 -!- rcassidy_ [n=ryan@155.33.149.150] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:07:08 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:08:04 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 22:08:23 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 22:08:41 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 22:10:26 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-166-177.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 22:18:17 dudrenov [n=user@c-69-181-124-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:22:26 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:22:29 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:31:01 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DDE1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:33:23 fschwidom [n=fschwido@94.219.127.12] has joined #scheme 22:51:40 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:54:02 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:58:31 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 22:59:27 mpeter [n=u5h@unaffiliated/mpeter] has joined #scheme 22:59:51 how do i list the collections inside an .so extension 23:01:12 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@92.49.236.160] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:01:19 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 23:03:16 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:03:27 or does that 23:03:29 not make any sense 23:06:29 -!- Elly is now known as elly 23:07:59 -!- pjb3 [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:17:49 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-129-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:18:36 ? 23:19:25 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:22:46 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-11-138.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:32:37 i am trying to learn scheme+opengl 23:32:42 i am looking at fluxus but 23:32:47 i don't know how flexible this is as an engine 23:34:15 any sage advice 23:34:31 mpeter: Well opengl and scheme 23:34:36 mpeter: I would use PLT scheme 23:34:44 mpeter: They coded games in opengl that you can look at the source 23:34:53 mpeter: Also there is a book they are writing. 23:35:18 mpeter: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/sgl/index.html 23:35:51 i thought fluxus was an implementation of PLT 23:36:44 *mpeter* reads 23:37:09 mpeter: Well it is . If you want more flexibility you can use just straight plt 23:37:37 where do i download that 23:37:39 mpeter: I don't know how flexibie fluxus is either 23:37:43 plt-scheme.org 23:37:46 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-237-96.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 23:37:48 mpeter: http://download.plt-scheme.org/ 23:38:12 mpeter: Remember google is your friend :-) 23:38:20 good christ, no it's not ;) 23:38:43 i prefer non-satanic search engines 23:38:57 okay whatever 23:39:00 *Riastradh* blinks. 23:39:26 you know those guys are trying to conquer the world 23:39:39 good for them. you should be too. 23:39:42 *r2q2* doesn't really care. 23:39:43 same way microsoft tried, but with better PR 23:39:50 Too late. I've already conquered it. 23:40:09 I rather have google ruling the world than other people. It wouldn't be that bad. 23:40:22 you should prefer to have nobody ruling the world 23:40:38 Eh not really someone has to it might as well be a tech company 23:40:58 People already "rule" the world who gives a shit??? 23:41:05 Define your terms. 23:41:23 i mean they have the means and prerogative to punish anybody who seems to threaten them 23:41:39 and to draw boundless sums of money/labor from the world without threat of collapse 23:42:00 through the gradual entrenchment of technological necessities implemented only by themselves 23:46:09 rudybot: hey 23:52:39 mpeter: you must be smoking some strong drugs. 23:52:57 on occasion 23:53:55 -!- Fufie [n=Frog@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:54:35 mpeter: google creates wealth. it doesn't take it by force from the rest of the world. 23:55:49 not yet 23:56:08 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:56:11 and how does google create wealth, exactly? 23:57:07 my life is richer because google exists. they also employ many people and help other businesses grow via advertising. 23:57:34 but what about other search engines 23:57:46 they're free to do the same 23:57:47 employing people doesn't indicate the creation of wealth 23:57:53 they're not so free, no 23:57:57 google's forming a monopoly 23:58:42 google has plenty of competition 23:58:58 microsoft 23:59:05 sort of ask.com - not really