00:03:41 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@ppp-69-218-241-177.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:05:46 saccade_ [n=saccade@c-69-247-77-130.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:06:40 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0560B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:06:41 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 00:06:54 Armageddon00 [n=danking@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 00:08:23 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE5B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:08:43 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:10:15 Armagedd1n00 [n=danking@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 00:10:51 -!- Armageddon00 [n=danking@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 00:10:52 -!- Armagedd1n00 [n=danking@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 00:20:18 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:20:29 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@c-69-247-77-130.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:25:23 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless104.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:37:39 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 00:42:37 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:43:15 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:45:08 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133115102.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:46:05 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:50:36 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 00:51:13 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 00:52:27 I've been thinking about special forms like (my-if condition consequence alternative). In Scheme this needs to be a macro. Instead of using macros, couldn't Scheme have allowed a lambda designer the discretion about when to evaluate the arguments? 00:53:23 With this alternate approach, there would be no hygiene issues. 00:54:09 this is one of the sore points of scheme 00:54:21 peter_12: Have you heard of Kernel? 00:54:30 -!- ssinkovskiy__ [n=ssinkovs@195.238.191.213] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:54:35 the function/macro separation, and macros being less than first class 00:54:59 aspect: is there a general feeling that what I'm suggesting may have been better? 00:54:59 peter_12: http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~jshutt/kernel.html 00:55:04 Vaeshir: thanks 00:55:14 peter_12: Basically does what you're suggesting. 00:55:30 severl have attempted to unify them -- F-expressions being one terms that strikes the memory .. but it always seems to turn out harder than naively hoped 00:55:36 peter_12: Defines a new construct where the arguments are not evaluated, but rather taken as s-expressions. Lambda is implemented in terms of this new construct. 00:56:38 Vaeshir: I was thinking each actual parameter could be wrapped like a promise and then the body of the lambda could force each when necessary 00:56:48 aspect: what is an "F-expression"? 00:57:23 peter_12: That'd work, but it still means you need some other mechanism for macros. 00:57:34 peter_12: It'd be nice to be able to implement macros using this new construct. 00:57:51 Vaeshir: why would you still need macros? 00:57:58 peter_12: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fexpr -- google has some decent hits, I can't remember where exactly but I think on c.l.s several years ago there was a rather detailed discussion about someone's attempts in this direction 00:58:22 perhaps ray dillinger was very vocal in the conversation 00:58:32 peter_12: I might be misunderstanding -- If it's implemented as a promise (that is, a closure) you can't manipulate the raw s-expressions, right? 00:58:37 but this is mostly coming from dusty memory so take it with a grain of salt :) 00:59:14 Yeah, the Kernel paper also makes reference to fexprs. 00:59:42 -!- brweber2 [n=brweber2@64.186.207.104] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:00:10 Vaeshir: Should a form be able to manipulate the subforms for each actual parameter? Shouldn't a form be ignorant of how the actual parameter subforms and just treat them as though they are values? 01:00:57 aspect: I'll do some hunting for that thread 01:03:11 peter_12: If you want to be able to implement macros using that form, then yes. You want to be able to manipulate the raw syntax. But it sounds like you're trying to solve a different problem. 01:03:12 glorybox [n=ssinkovs@195.238.191.213] has joined #scheme 01:03:57 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:04:42 Vaeshir: Perhaps I haven't encountered the type of macro use you are describing. It seems to me that the fexps would negate the need for macros. Both are mechanisms to allow special forms/evaluation rules. 01:05:41 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:08:08 aspect: Vaeshir: thanks for the links. fexps are definitely what I was thinking about. 01:08:35 No problem. Is interesting stuff. 01:08:52 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:11:20 underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 01:11:55 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:17:20 peter_12: Is it lazy evaluation that you want? 01:17:31 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:17:51 Mr-Cat: lazy actual parameter evaluation. Isn't that what macros enable anyway? 01:18:28 peter_12: I mean lazy evaluation at runtime 01:18:49 yes: lazy actual parameter evaluation at runtime 01:21:57 Well, there is srfi-41 - it's about lazy lists 01:23:36 Also there are delay/force in standard, at least in r5rs 01:24:01 Mr-Cat: it is more that you cannot pass around a macro as a first-class object 01:25:14 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180067034.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:25:38 I believe, macro and lambda are the same objects after all 01:26:35 Which church do you go to with that belief? 01:27:07 forcer: Any arguments against that? 01:31:02 A macro is syntax transformation. LAMBDA is a special form - you can't implement lambda as a macro (unless you have some "more primitive" special form with which to implement lambda). Application of a LAMBDA expression returns a procedure object. 01:31:40 Macros transform syntax before the program is evaluated. When the program is evaluated, macros have ceased to exist already. 01:33:05 -!- decker [n=chatzill@71-93-181-7.static.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008121622]"] 01:33:59 that's what makes lisp so powerful 01:34:10 in most languages there's only a halting problem 01:34:24 but macros mean you can create programs that might not even *start* 01:34:34 :-) 01:35:43 forcer: You may think of macro as a function that is applied to sexprs at expand type. Look at syntax-case definitions. They start with something like (define-syntax foo (lambda (x) ... 01:35:54 s/type/time/ 01:37:39 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@38.103.167.122] has joined #scheme 01:38:13 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 01:40:35 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-232-155.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 01:41:38 Mr-Cat: Yes (even more true for DEFMACRO forms; DEFINE-SYNTAX from R5RS doesn't use LAMBDA at all). The expansion happens when compiling the program, and is not accessible at all anymore when the program actually runs. 01:44:37 forcer: I didn't claim that macros are accessible after compilation (didn't check that either). But in fact I see no reason why not to allow macros be accesible at runtime. 01:45:30 Mr-Cat: Why would they be? 01:45:48 It's a syntax transformation. Your syntax doesn't exist anymore at run time. 01:46:31 Syntax does not, but the transformation itself can be compiled as an ordinary lambda 01:47:12 Again, I on't know, whether it is implemented or not 01:47:25 s/on't/don't 01:50:12 -!- kazzmir__ [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:50:49 kazzmir [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:51:08 -!- Mr-Cat [n=chatzill@78-106-162-144.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:52:43 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@38.103.167.122] has quit [] 01:53:19 hadronzoo [n=user@38.103.167.122] has joined #scheme 01:55:45 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-124.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:55:57 -!- Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:57:45 -!- pjb3 [n=pjb3@c-76-100-98-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:06:56 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:09:58 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:11:03 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 02:17:04 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 02:31:51 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:34:33 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 02:36:16 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:37:27 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:50:31 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 02:52:55 -!- rcy [n=rcy@S01060002553240a8.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:53:56 brweber2 [n=brweber2@64.186.207.104] has joined #scheme 02:54:28 nothingHappens_ [n=nothingH@12-226-78-3.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 03:01:14 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 03:01:14 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:04:54 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:10:43 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw604176.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:20:03 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 03:22:28 rcy [n=rcy@S01060002553240a8.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 03:26:18 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@64.186.207.104] has quit [] 03:30:06 can someone give me an example of how to use the \S class in a regexp-match? I can't seem to get the quoting/escaping right 03:30:17 in particular, this does not work: 03:30:26 (regexp-match #rx"(\S+)" "foo") 03:30:32 > (regexp-match #rx"(\S+)" "foo") 03:30:41 *Elly* pokes the eval bot 03:30:45 eval: (regexp-match #rx"(\S+)" "foo") 03:30:52 well, anyway 03:30:58 that quoting is apparently wrong, as is \\S+ 03:32:17 bartek [n=bartek@75-119-229-235.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 03:35:09 Hi, this is a silly question but I'm just begining to go through SICP and I've written up some definitions for one of the sections and when I run my interpreter, how can I load the file so that I can use the functions within from the interpreter? .. :) 03:35:21 bartek: (load) or (require), I think 03:35:49 Thanks, Ill give them a go. 03:38:05 -!- chaoslynx [n=cpehle@p57A74DC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:41:59 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 03:48:18 incubot: greetings from the san jose airport 03:48:20 well, it seems to me as his middle name, it is akin to spain's Jose Marķa Aznar (to cite someone who you may have heard of) 03:48:57 incubot: i think they're referring to the saint; in any case, it bears the saintly gift of free wifi 03:48:59 his first review says that kicking and screaming is like mighty ducks and the bd news bears - yet he gives it three stars 03:49:20 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:00:18 Elly: thanks that worked. One other quick question what would you recommend the best scheme interpreter for the code found in SICP ? I am checking out DrScheme at the moment. 04:02:42 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["leaving"] 04:04:59 -!- bartek [n=bartek@75-119-229-235.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #scheme 04:05:07 dsmith [i=qs267jjn@cpe-71-74-230-225.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:06:26 I use mzscheme 04:08:20 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 04:13:45 incubot: where is sarahbot? 04:13:47 sorry sarahbot 04:14:07 incubot: That's not my name 04:14:09 really? What's his/her/its name? 04:14:33 incubot: Axioplase (but it's a nick rather than a name) 04:14:33 Error: unbound variable: Axioplase 04:14:55 incubot: Who created you? 04:14:57 *partially created 04:15:02  04:16:59 -!- hadronzoo [n=user@38.103.167.122] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:21:48 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:23:14 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:29:14 rudybot: eval incubot 04:29:14 offby1: ; Value: |very clever bot| 04:34:31 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:34:33 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 04:48:15 -!- forcer [n=forcer@e179198112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:51:01 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit ["The incensed priests...continued to raise their voices, vituperating each other in bad Latin"] 04:51:13 geckosenator [n=sean@ppp-69-218-241-177.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 04:53:18 rudybot: eval rudybot 04:53:18 Adamant: error: reference to undefined identifier: rudybot 04:53:45 incubot: eval rudybot 04:53:47 it still uses (eval ...), however; and just doesn't feel right 04:56:05 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 04:57:31 rudybot: eval incubot 04:57:31 offby1: ; Value: "whatchoolookinat?" 04:59:24 incubot: rudybot 04:59:26 eval (vector-e 05:01:53 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 05:03:01 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:03:08 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 05:05:57 -!- nothingHappens_ [n=nothingH@12-226-78-3.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:08:50 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:10:09 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176205045.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:13:33 bhrgunatha [n=chatzill@118-170-42-26.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 05:14:14 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-241.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 05:16:13 -!- offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:16:43 offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 05:19:30 -!- bhrgunatha [n=chatzill@118-170-42-26.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.1b3pre/20090107020519]"] 05:25:22 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:27:32 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176221073.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:33:41 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 05:33:45 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 05:35:08 -!- dlurf [n=dlurf@ua-83-227-225-58.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 05:39:08 dlurf [n=dlurf@ua-83-227-225-58.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 05:40:36 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 05:46:56 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:48:20 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.49.19.192] has joined #scheme 05:49:20 bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:50:26 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@nat/redhat-in/x-ec983f90b48acca1] has joined #scheme 05:51:55 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-155.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:01:40 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:12:22 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:15:25 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:20:42 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:22:10 JKGpp [n=juergen@dslb-092-074-122-035.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 06:23:38 maodun [n=stopgo@c-67-180-49-1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:24:12 -!- JKGpp [n=juergen@dslb-092-074-122-035.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:26:09 -!- kryptiskt [n=irc@ua-83-227-225-58.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:26:12 -!- dlurf [n=dlurf@ua-83-227-225-58.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:26:34 Is there an easy way to convert an integer codepoint to a unicode character in mzscheme (e.g. some function unicode such that (unicode x) == #\ux (x being some integer))? 06:30:16 -!- bsmntbombdood is now known as grndlvlbombdood 06:30:41 integer->char ? 06:31:13 rudybot: eval (integer->char #x3bb) 06:31:14 zbigniew: ; Value: #\ 06:31:25 oh, rudybot 06:32:06 rudybot: eval (display (integer->char #x3bb)) 06:32:06 zbigniew: ; stdout: "" 06:32:12 zbigniew: ah, thanks - looks like I should've done a little more documentation digging before asking 06:34:04 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 06:34:14 It wasn't a bad question. 06:35:07 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 06:37:34 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:37:59 Riastradh: check this out: http://jrm-code-project.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/scheme/clambda.scm ;-) o_O 06:44:48 underspecified_ [n=eric@naist-wavenet125-121.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:47:28 Pretty horrible. 06:48:51 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-155.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:49:34 incubot: clambda.scm reminds me of clamydia.scm 06:49:35 That reminds me, wbrown. I'm chewing, right now, on the problem about what to do with the data from scan and prod on the console. 06:51:01 CL is a mess... 06:54:13 -!- aardvarq [i=tgAardva@student3113.student.nau.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:55:53 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 06:59:31 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 07:10:10 xwl [n=user@147.243.236.60] has joined #scheme 07:11:26 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 07:28:24 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-232-155.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:28:56 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-232-155.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 07:29:19 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-232-155.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:29:37 have you guys been talking about Andy Wingo's article on Guile: http://wingolog.org/archives/2009/01/07/a-brief-history-of-guile 07:31:42 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 07:32:10 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.236.189] has left #scheme 07:36:18 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:41:18 pleasurable huh 07:41:40 Obviously said author has never had to debug when and why Gnus is corrupting its newsrc file again. 07:43:49 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 07:45:00 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 07:46:54 dzhus [n=sphinx@93-80-240-38.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 07:48:23 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0553FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:49:38 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 07:55:55 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 07:57:07 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 08:08:11 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:08:31 -!- 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[n=mike@dslb-088-066-228-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 15:35:19 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 15:44:01 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 15:48:42 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-085-223.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:56:52 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:57:32 -!- xwl` [n=user@221.221.160.204] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:58:03 antoni [n=antoni@210.pool85-53-15.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 15:58:39 hi all do you know any good book or web to learn scheme? 15:58:52 Have you looked at the topic of this channel? 15:59:27 gnomon, ok 16:08:52 something about scheme 16:09:33 this channel used to be busy, i guess when the spring semester starts it'll pick up again? 16:12:48 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-31-70.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 16:13:28 -!- a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:14:33 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 16:17:13 -!- master-flomaster [i=yumi@213.129.54.27] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:25:10 -!- antoni [n=antoni@210.pool85-53-15.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Client Quit] 16:30:54 exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.95.1] has joined #scheme 16:33:23 incubot: why aren't you more busy? 16:33:25 you can run music synthesizer program quite successfully on a non hard real-time OS as long as it doesn't matter if the sound pops out once in awhile because the OS was busy cleaning up its virtual memory or some other app was running. 16:36:22 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 16:37:25 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:37:41 rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 16:39:10 bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 16:39:39 -!- mmc 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[n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 17:30:35 Next Boston Lisp Meeting: Monday January 26th 2009 at 1800 at MIT 34-401B -- David O'Toole about Common Lisp and Rogue-like Games. 17:35:31 interesting combination :) 17:35:33 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 17:37:45 http://dto.github.com/notebook/rlx.html 17:38:45 Daemmerung: uh oh 17:39:05 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:39:14 klutometis: we need to do way to instain project> 17:39:19 heh 17:39:46 Will this be the celestial kick in the ass that we need? Who knows? Stay tuned! 17:39:47 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 17:47:07 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 17:48:24 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 17:49:50 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit ["Smoove out."] 17:50:13 Paraselene__ [n=None@79-67-130-219.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 17:52:45 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 17:52:56 kryptiskt [n=irc@c83-249-224-126.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 17:55:25 saccade_ [n=saccade@c-69-247-77-130.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:00:44 -!- kryptiskt [n=irc@c83-249-224-126.bredband.comhem.se] has left #scheme 18:03:03 incubot: AssBasher Mace +2 18:03:05 What's the proper word for that, anyhow? A mace? A cudgel? A makeshift morningstar? 18:03:39 It's scary how smart incubot's responses are 18:12:09 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 18:14:51 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 18:22:18 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:25:23 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:27:07 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 18:32:46 saccade__ [n=saccade@c-69-247-77-130.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:33:50 celestial kick? A roguelike engine? 18:36:20 it looks awesome, but I think we'd need a more important project. 18:36:47 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@c-69-247-77-130.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:37:24 dnm_ [n=dnm@138.sub-70-208-124.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 18:47:19 -!- dnm [n=dnm@131.sub-70-211-21.myvzw.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:52:11 -!- saccade__ [n=saccade@c-69-247-77-130.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:54:14 -!- rcy [n=rcy@S01060002553240a8.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:00:37 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 19:06:16 kryptiskt [n=irc@c83-249-224-126.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 19:09:01 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:09:51 -!- ricky [n=ricky@fedora/ricky] has quit [Client Quit] 19:11:21 ricky [n=ricky@fedora/ricky] has joined #scheme 19:11:32 -!- ricky [n=ricky@fedora/ricky] has quit [Client Quit] 19:11:47 ricky [n=ricky@fedora/ricky] has joined #scheme 19:20:04 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:20:49 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:21:43 -!- Eleanore [n=a@h246n1.lunet.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:23:24 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B056259.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:27:21 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 19:28:04 X-Scale [i=email@89.180.175.50] has joined #scheme 19:39:02 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:41:41 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:42:59 wingo-tp [n=wingo@134.Red-81-39-162.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:43:02 good evening, all. 19:46:23 -!- kryptiskt [n=irc@c83-249-224-126.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:47:52 incubot: celestial greetings 19:47:54 nope, never. 19:48:35 incubot: written any good schemes as of late? 19:48:36 stay up! late here too. :) 19:49:39 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:50:07 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.95.1] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:51:55 incubot: should I program in Scheme or C++? 19:51:58 My Scheme48 reference manual. 19:52:11 ah, ok. thanks. 19:53:09 incubot: what's worse, programming in C++ or getting hit by a CAR? 19:53:11 very much so, still getting my head around it 19:54:37 incubot: don't avoid the question. 19:54:39 I meant to hassle you, Riastradh, with yet another Pre-Scheme question. 19:55:02 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:55:11 Eleanore [n=a@ip215131.lbinternet.se] has joined #scheme 19:57:46 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 20:04:01 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:07:41 incubot: what do you think of rudybot? 20:07:43 eval (and x y) 20:08:04 incubot: so...you like him? 20:08:07 In that case it might make sense to use something like make to compile the various parts. 20:08:15 woha, frisky 20:08:35 incubot: where do babies come from? 20:08:37 doesn't stop me using "christ with dead babies" for my desktop wallpaper at work. 20:08:44 heh 20:22:57 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 20:25:06 foof```: ping 20:29:19 pong 20:30:11 *rotty* mumbles irregex 20:30:51 *foof```* mumbles owww, my head... why did I drink so much last night? 20:31:15 Oh, that's right, it was a Christmas party... 20:32:40 On the 7th of January? 20:33:19 Orthodox Christmas, no? 20:33:30 Back when Christ was born we had a leap year every 4 years, no exception. 20:33:55 So Orthodox Christians feel if that was good enough for baby Jesus, it's good enough for them. 20:34:00 -!- foof``` is now known as foof 20:34:33 More evidence that Date Math is Hard, and that We Should Go Shopping(tm). 20:35:09 foof: nothing like remembering baby Jesus by consuming copious amounts of alcohol. 20:35:47 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-134-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:43:32 rotty: Seriously, though, I'll work on it later this evening. 20:43:47 foof: cool! 20:43:50 The bug is fixed but there's a lot of documentation I want to add. 20:44:01 even cooler :-) 20:44:50 baby jesus turns mother's milk to wine 20:45:11 ROFL 20:46:44 That would explain his fan club. 20:47:13 and hers 20:47:43 both strange fanclubs, those 20:50:10 indeed 20:53:23 wingo-tp: is tekuti very guile-specific? 20:57:40 rotty: not particularly 20:57:58 rotty: porting it to r6rs would be an interesting exercise 20:58:13 i assume there are sxml libraries out there 20:58:30 though, the bits about running git in a pipe are guile-specific 20:58:38 wingo-tp: I'm tempted to try that, when I'm done hacking stexidoc into shape again on R6RS 20:58:54 rotty: what's stexidoc? 21:00:01 that would be pretty sweet to have a tekuti that runs on r6 21:00:15 wingo-tp: a documentation system very similiar to what's in guile-lib, but not relying on doc strings, but comments instead 21:00:53 ah cool 21:01:01 (and there's an R6RS port of SSAX, and I've made a quite guile-lib compatible (sxml) wrapper around that 21:01:12 ) 21:01:28 *wingo-tp* hopes that portable libraries are the norm in a couple years 21:01:42 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-31-70.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:02:05 yeah, that would be quite neat 21:02:35 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 21:02:57 wingo-tp: the SXML understood by SSAX/R6RS uses ^ instead of @ for attributes, though, as @ is not a valid r6rs identifier 21:04:03 *rotty* wonders if there's a technical reason for that 21:04:07 ,@ 21:05:29 Riastradh: right, but r5rs somehow dealt with that (altough it seems like a quite-special case) 21:05:34 No. 21:06:19 rotty: ooh, yeah i hate that 21:06:23 maodun [n=stopgo@c-67-180-49-1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:06:35 i mean, it slipped by oleg. that must mean that it should be accepted as standard syntax. 21:07:06 there was a thread somewhere about this, though -- the ssax list or r6rs-discuss 21:10:21 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless67.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 21:10:29 http://osdir.com/ml/lisp.scheme.ssax-sxml/2008-06/threads.html#00007 21:13:00 Yes, clearly anything involving Oleg is a paragon of perfection. The mere thought of criticizing SSAX and SXML is a mortal sin. 21:13:03 *Riastradh* coughs. 21:18:45 Couldn't that ambiguity be solved by simply requiring the user to write ,|@foo| and deciding that ,@foo always means the same as ,@|foo| ? 21:19:12 That way, when an @ is not preceded by a comma it wouldn't need to be "special" 21:19:17 wingo-tp: i wonder if guile-lib and the SPE set of libraries could unite in a few years 21:20:54 sjamaan: that would make unquote-splicing kinda ugly to use 21:21:33 rotty: Only if you want to use unquote-splice with an identifier that starts with @ 21:21:49 In other cases, you can just ,@foo 21:21:52 sjamaan: right, just ignore that 21:24:02 Looks like Chicken does this 21:24:08 I assume other Schemes do that too 21:24:49 but that still wont be R6RS 21:24:56 ? 21:25:13 I thought || quoting style was standardised in R6 21:25:22 | cant be used 21:25:27 like that 21:25:51 the only place it be is after a number to specifiy it's width 21:26:09 weird 21:26:54 unless im missing something 21:27:01 I think you're right 21:27:17 Just goes to show the insanity of R6 ;) 21:27:26 there appears to be a typo, that could lead to confusion, in the lexemes 21:27:38 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 21:28:15 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:39:08 -!- langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:39:18 langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 21:40:07 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-137.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 21:42:52 rotty: i don't know what spe is, but i do think that a portable library project is a good idea :) 21:43:17 i think sleep is a good idea 21:43:33 do you intend to do something about that? 21:43:36 :) 21:43:48 yes 21:46:21 another non standard thing not in r6rs is the ability to use , without a preceding delimiter, eg a, b in r6rs you are forced to write it a ,b 21:46:26 o well off to sleep 21:50:23 dlurf [n=dlurf@c83-249-224-126.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 21:53:42 melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 21:55:46 sjamaan, writing |foo| won't work if the symbol's name is "FOO". 21:55:58 ...if the intended symbol's name is "FOO", I mean. 21:56:06 ? 21:56:13 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:57:18 Riastradh: What will it do then? 21:57:18 Perhaps |@foo| and "@FOO" would have been better. If you want to splice the value of a variable named @foo, and the symbol's name in this context is specifically "@FOO", then writing ,|@foo| rather than ,@foo won't have the intended effect. 21:57:31 ExcelsisD [i=email@89.180.152.91] has joined #scheme 21:57:32 A space suffices to disambiguate, though. 21:57:39 , @foo versus ,@ foo 21:57:40 hmm, is there any language that has (a) a pathname abstraction and (b) defines a directory-fold operator (or something alike)? 21:57:52 Language? 21:58:28 s/language/language or library in any language/ 21:59:11 *rotty* wonders how to deal with the case when the pathname passed to directory-fold contains a filename part 21:59:48 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.175.50] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:00:01 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:00:06 -!- ExcelsisD is now known as X-Scale 22:00:20 Riastradh: Can you give an example? 22:00:27 I don't follow the @foo stuff 22:00:30 specbot: clhs directory-fold 22:00:30 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for directory-fold. 22:00:45 rotty, are you deciding between strictly ignoring the file part of a pathname in naming directories, versus liberally trying to interpret any pathname as a directory name? 22:00:50 1) strip the filename 2) use pathname-as-directory 22:01:01 Riastradh: yes 22:01:22 sjamaan, consider (let ((@foo '(b)) (foo '(x))) `(a ,@foo c)). 22:02:02 Without any || that would give you (a x c) 22:02:04 3) raise an error if there's a filename component 22:02:05 sjamaan, it is ambiguous whether that should yield (A B C) or (A (X) C). 22:02:15 ...er, (A (B) C) or (A X C), I mean. 22:02:40 Riastradh: That's what I understood from the mailinglist post that was pasted earlier 22:02:41 If one writes ,|@foo| instead, it may yield a reference to an unbound variable. 22:02:47 Likewise ,@|foo|. 22:03:07 That's when I suggested that quoting the name would be mandatory in case of an identifier starting with @ 22:03:41 So ,@foo would be interpreted as ,@ foo while ,|@foo| would be interpreted as , @foo 22:03:49 No, sjamaan. 22:03:51 (using your space-to-disambiguate rule) 22:03:59 ,|@foo| would be interpreted as ,|@foo|. 22:04:08 Why is that? 22:04:16 Because || isn't standardized? 22:04:36 I liked Xahs comment about ` and , being weird 22:04:38 they are weird 22:04:39 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 22:04:50 (QUASIQUOTE ... (UNQUOTE ...)) makes more sense 22:05:00 , @foo might be interpreted as ,|@FOO| or as ,|@foo|. 22:05:11 Similarly, ,@ foo might be interpreted as ,@ |foo| or as ,@ |FOO|. 22:06:05 Oh, you're talking about case-insensitivity? 22:06:25 No, I'm actually talking about case sensitivity. 22:06:37 :) 22:07:03 Isn't R6 case-sensitive? 22:07:09 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:07:22 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:07:52 Symbol names are sensitive to case both in the R5RS and in the R6RS. 22:09:30 ? 22:10:05 *rotty* notes that he forgot about foof's common-scheme, which works around the issue by working on strings for directory-fold, while otherwise presenting pathnames 22:10:08 it's the reader that upcases.. 22:10:15 I am assuming, of course, the usual interpretation of the vertical bar notation, which is prohibited by the R6RS in R6RS source code. 22:11:18 melito_ [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 22:13:16 Riastradh: When the identifier is resolved, case is ignored in R5, isn't it? 22:13:29 the reader upcases 22:13:38 vixey: It does? 22:13:49 I demand it to be true 22:13:50 The reader may upcase or downcase as it pleases with the tokens it reads. 22:14:31 Does it do so in R6, too? 22:14:34 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:14:47 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:15:22 No. The R6RS's lexical syntax is incompatible with the R5RS's in this respect. 22:15:27 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 22:16:31 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:17:30 Riastradh: I'll ask again later when I'm not so tired 22:17:39 Maybe then I can try to make an effort to understand what you're saying 22:17:40 it's snoozeville 22:17:44 geckosenator [n=sean@ppp-69-218-241-177.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 22:17:58 solution is simple: press caps lock before login into your *nix. 22:18:03 Riastradh: any opinion on the pathname/directory issue? 22:18:15 what is common-scheme? 22:18:31 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:19:19 proq: http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=common-scheme 22:20:18 proq: ;-) 22:21:54 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:21:55 * 22:21:59 + 22:22:06 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:22:09 Sorry 22:22:24 rotty, no, I don't have an opinion. The strict interpretation will lead to code littered with calls to PATHNAME-AS-DIRECTORY. The liberal interpretation will lead to potentially confusing identification of names with distinct structures. 22:22:52 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:23:13 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:23:32 rotty: What issue? 22:24:14 foof: wether to treat the pathname passed to directory-fold implicitly as a directory, or stripping away the file part\ 22:24:43 (Also, DIRECTORY-FOLD is the wrong abstraction. Opendir/readdir/closedir is better, and so would a foof-loop iterator be.) 22:25:20 *rotty* has ignored foof-loop for now, and should probably look finally into it 22:27:52 I would prefer a foof-loop iterator to a fold, but I think fold is better than opendir/readdir/closedir. 22:29:24 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:29:25 has foof-loop anything to do with you, foof? 22:29:36 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:31:29 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Client Quit] 22:31:56 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:32:30 *rotty* is reading up on foof-loop, and thinks he should have done so way earlier\ 22:32:51 Expressing a fold in terms of a cursor is trivial. Expressing a cursor in terms of a fold is non-trivial. In most implementations of this, the cursor is the primitive implementation. 22:34:24 rotty, I think the most recent documentation is at . 22:35:48 Riastradh: yep, and my directory-fold-tree* is quite ugly because of that (I think it's because of that) 22:36:38 A depth-first traversal should be easy. Does your routine do a breadth-first traversal, or offer the programmer a choice? 22:38:33 http://rottyforge.yi.org/cgi-bin/darcsweb.cgi?r=spells;a=headblob;f=/scheme/filesys.scm 22:38:34 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/8qnqn6 22:39:09 Oh, it's ugly because of multiple seeds and premature termination. 22:39:16 Riastradh: yep 22:40:15 Sure, the cursor is more primitive, that doesn't mean it's a better interface to provide to the user. 22:40:48 -!- dnm_ [n=dnm@138.sub-70-208-124.myvzw.com] has quit [] 22:41:26 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 22:42:08 yep, I deemed opendir & co. to be too low-level 22:42:21 Too low-level? Is that a reason not to expose them? 22:42:31 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:44:53 that is an interesting link (foof-loop.txt), tx 22:46:36 Riastradh: I think the reason was that they don't as readily map to all underlying implementations (or so I thought at that time) 22:46:55 What other implementations do you have in mind? 22:48:03 mzscheme only provides directory-list, but you could surely wrap a directory stream abstraction around that 22:48:38 What does it do under the hood? 22:49:08 *rotty* must say that PLT scheme's OS interface sucks^Wis not very nice, but that's probably because it has to work on Windows, as well ;-) 22:49:24 Windows doesn't have opendir/readdir/closedir? 22:52:29 Riastradh: It probably does, but I dunno, I haven't hacked on it for like 10 years now. but PLT scheme doesn't seem to expose it 22:52:38 directory-list is broken, if there are more directory entries than can fit into memory. 22:53:07 foof: yeah, as I said, PLT's OS interface ... 22:53:11 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:53:26 That's OK, foof. Scheme implementations are exempt from trifling `practical' considerations such as that. 22:53:31 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:53:38 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:56:09 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 22:58:09 Under the hood, it tries all possible pathnames and sees if they're there or not with `file-exists?'. 22:59:38 foof: yeah, that will work perfectly on systems that have PATH_MAX, but will fail on GNU/Hurd 23:01:07 how do you do readdir_r without PATH_MAX i wonder 23:01:18 a wonder for another day, tho 23:01:19 gnight 23:02:26 are there any success stories of scheme/lisp in layout/design tools (i.e. fpgas), with the exception of autocad/autolisp? 23:03:43 i thought that dybvig listed a number in his history of chez talk 23:03:48 but i don't know 23:03:59 i was sleeping but now i really am :) 23:05:24 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 23:06:43 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 23:07:10 phrx [n=me@173.8.151.46] has joined #scheme 23:07:11 wingo-tp: I think you have to use pathconf("/THE/DIR", _PC_NAME_MAX) 23:07:45 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Client Quit] 23:07:45 (and allocate an accordingly-sized struct dirent) 23:08:07 and I should have said NAME_MAX, not PATH_MAX before 23:08:28 -!- mike___ [n=mike@dslb-088-066-228-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:10:50 foof-loop is definitly going to show up as a spells library module :-) 23:15:27 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:15:32 I wish I knew what foofloop did 23:15:37 but I like loops 23:15:54 Read the introduction, geckosenator: . 23:16:31 Any lack of clarity is solely my fault, and if you find any, I should like to hear about it. 23:17:54 ok, I'll see if I can understand it 23:18:21 -!- maodun [n=stopgo@c-67-180-49-1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #scheme 23:19:04 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE8E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 23:19:52 -!- phrx [n=me@173.8.151.46] has quit [Client Quit] 23:23:38 i realize the responses here may be biased; i need to write my own IC tool (research purpose); i'm debating haskell vs scheme/lisp. thoughts? 23:23:54 what does IC mean in that context? 23:29:18 integrated circuits / chip design 23:33:10 hml: http://people.csail.mit.edu/jaffer/SIMSYNCH 23:34:06 lol; why am i not surprised it's from mit? 23:35:21 uh, inally, 23:35:21 note that Scheme systems that preserve the case of symbols in source 23:35:24 code are not R5RS-compliant and cannot load foof-loop. 23:36:32 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:36:32 s/uh, inally/uh: Finally,/ 23:37:23 Yes, if you want to load foof-loop into a non-R5RS-compliant Scheme system, you may have to make some global changes to the file. 23:40:03 yeah, seems leppie already has done that :-) 23:40:58 maodun [n=stopgo@c-67-180-49-1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:42:00 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 23:42:53 oh, unlikely scheme seems to be good for embedding into a game engine 23:43:40 proq: why? 23:44:36 exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.95.1] has joined #scheme 23:45:05 when you talk about embedding you really have to say which scheme system you are using.. 23:46:32 langmart` [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 23:46:45 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B056259.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:47:51 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:48:50 if the game engine is a (shared) library implemented in C/C++, "embedding" may not even be necessary 23:49:19 s/(shared)// 23:49:55 you mean use scheme as the main engine and call into the c/c++ engine? 23:50:04 jonrafkind: yep 23:50:09 well then its more like a library.. 23:50:16 engine usually means its running the show 23:50:41 *rotty* is not familiar with game engines, admittedly 23:50:49 i just got done with adding python to my game 23:50:53 i might do mzscheme next 23:51:20 (but I had the impression that most of them are some kind of library that you use in your application) 23:51:42 its all very fuzzy, engine vs library vs framework 23:51:46 jonrafkind: what game? 23:51:51 http://paintown.sf.net 23:51:59 the python stuff isn't in the latest release, im going to release it on saturday 23:52:17 but its in svn if you want 23:52:26 -!- langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:52:36 -!- langmart` is now known as langmartin 23:53:28 Coming most recently from a python background I've found that python's treating strings as implicit lists of characters really convenient - I'm a bit curious what the reasons for scheme not doing similarly are. By that I mean what would (mz)scheme lose if ("foo" 0) => #\f? 23:53:55 Those are two completely distinct concepts, maodun, one of which is false. 23:54:06 (or rather, lies on a false assumption) 23:54:33 Riastradh: Could you clarify a little? 23:55:11 1. You might want to change the semantics of procedure application to include a host of different applicable objects. 23:55:27 2. You might want strings to be represented as lists of characters, rather than as specialized vector-like sequences of characters. 23:56:20 In Python, there is no `character' data type; a string is just a collection of octets or Unicode code points, and a `character' is a string containing a single octet or Unicode code point. 23:56:29 jonrafkind: the babelfish translations at the end of the page are ... funny :-) 23:56:36 yea heh 23:56:49 they were originally in spanish I think 23:56:54 Riastradh: I see, thank you. 23:57:33 maodun, you could write a little utility function, (my-ref ...) that given a vector/string/list does the right thing 23:58:19 jonrafkind: looks like spanish to me (no pun intended -- or would that even qualify as pun in English? -- it sure would in German...) 23:58:28 There is very little advantage to treating strings as lists of characters. 23:58:50 rotty, in English, one might say `it's all Greek to me', if what you mean is that it makes no sense whatsoever. 23:59:02 (`...if what one means...') 23:59:19 proq` [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #scheme 23:59:59 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]