00:02:18 leppie: hmm, in xitomatl there is only very simple test helpers along the tests themselves 00:05:33 glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has joined #scheme 00:11:47 any opions on srfi 64 vs srfi 78? 00:11:59 *opinions* 00:12:32 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 00:18:16 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 00:20:14 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176217060.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 00:20:25 No chances to port the existing srfi-64 implementation to r6rs? 00:20:58 la la la 00:21:19 -!- krat3r [n=krat@a83-132-32-164.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:22:08 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176199254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:22:14 bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable027.191-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 00:23:53 http://web.mit.edu/~axch/www/testing.html look nice 00:23:53 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 00:24:14 -!- lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.187] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 00:25:43 Yeah 00:26:08 lo hum de diddle. 00:26:28 But no link to source code though )) 00:32:53 is there a way in scheme to output \f or ^L ? 00:32:57 (the newpage control ascii code) 00:33:02 i want to write this to a fifo 00:34:15 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 00:35:27 rudybot: eval (display (integer->char 14)) 00:35:27 offby1: ; stdout: "\u000E" 00:35:33 hml: (write-char (integer->char 12)) seems to be portable (for ASCII, at least). R6RS has a special code for formfeeds too, if I remember right. 00:35:38 rudybot: eval (display (integer->char 12)) 00:35:38 offby1: ; stdout: "\f" 00:35:41 off by two 00:35:47 rudybot: eval (display "\f") 00:35:47 offby1: ; stdout: "\f" 00:35:51 offby1: That's off by 1 against offby1. :-) 00:36:26 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:39:11 rudybot: eval (write-char (integer->char 12)) 00:39:20 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:39:44 cty: thanks 00:46:34 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:48:44 hmm 00:48:50 why didn't rudybot respond to cky ... 00:48:53 rudybot: uptime 00:48:55 crap. 00:49:14 What fresh Hell is this? 00:49:34 wow, a segfault. 00:49:36 That's a new one. 00:49:46 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 00:50:06 Mmmm, a bug in underlying scheme implementation? 00:51:41 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 00:53:02 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 00:53:05 incubot: core 00:53:08 Actually I'm thinking one could use the core vocabulary from Lojban. 00:54:00 eli: mzscheme segfaulted; I've got it in the debugger. 00:56:13 Mr-Cat: yep, first segfault I've ever seen in mzscheme 00:57:26 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DDCB8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 01:00:47 -!- offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:03:45 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:04:13 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 01:04:42 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:04:59 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 01:05:47 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:06:03 klutometis: oh, you were looking to compile chicken+extensions statically due to the chroot... I see 01:06:12 *zbigniew* realizes something months later 01:06:51 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 01:07:53 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:08:50 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:09:18 offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 01:10:40 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:13:02 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:14:37 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 01:15:10 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 01:15:38 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:18:11 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF2E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:18:24 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has quit [] 01:18:34 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF44D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:19:56 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net."] 01:19:56 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 01:21:51 -!- benny` [n=benny@i577A2105.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:22:19 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF44D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:25:52 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 01:26:52 benny [n=benny@i577A2105.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 01:27:26 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 01:27:33 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 01:27:35 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.102.133.70] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:27:52 incubot: Azure 01:27:54 Azure_Ag: and then, a good way to typeset math (latex is good there) and sourcecode 01:29:12 incubot: minion 01:29:14 what is a bot? 01:29:21 incubot: lisppaste 01:29:23 Can you lisppaste your interactions? I don't remember what `works' means any longer. 01:29:29 incubot: specbot 01:29:32 r5rs? 01:29:40 incubot: chandler 01:29:42 - AvS is trying to clear up a common and simplistic misunderstanding of the deal with Scheme macros - that they evolved purely to supply hygiene because of the greater likelihood of name capture in a Lisp-1. That's *not* what they're about (as I imagine you must know). 01:34:55 incubot: killer apps 01:34:57 it turns out the ruby killer is Javascript... 01:35:16 Funny 01:35:18 incubot: scalable hosting 01:35:21 Yeah, same problem, ground up design and code. Scalable? Uh, that concept isn't really applicable at this point. 01:37:04 incubot: Federated Data Centers 01:37:07 No data slots 01:37:12 mejja: this is pretty cool, where are all these quotes from? 01:37:24 the channel 01:37:38 just from the logs? 01:37:47 IIRC yeah 01:38:02 hmm 01:38:04 incubot: syntax 01:38:06 it's a ugly feature that allows for "infix" syntax. 01:38:23 How does it work? 01:38:43 How does it choose what to say? Based on what? 01:38:49 incubot: incubot 01:40:26 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:41:12 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-4f22e3f673adaaab] has joined #scheme 01:44:50 incubot: bluehoo 01:50:52 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 01:51:03 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 01:52:09 test-manager "ported" in 1:30 hours :-) (no testing yet ;-p) 01:58:17 zbigniew: exactly! 02:00:04 -!- benny is now known as bruenig 02:00:19 -!- bruenig is now known as benny 02:02:03 i'm implementing an interpreter; for each environment, I need it to point to its parent; should I store it as a var that can be looked up, or should it be a special var that can't be looked up? 02:02:18 i.e. should i have a *parent* var that when I try to look it up, I get a pointer to the parenting environment 02:03:19 when you create the environment store the parent environment with the same object. Whether or not you allow access to it is up to you 02:04:38 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 02:05:12 What use would you have of a parent var BTW? To accesses variables that you have shadowed? In what cases would that be useful? 02:05:28 yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:07:08 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:15:11 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:18:45 is there a way to curry functions in lisp? 02:19:08 excuse me, I meant scheme 02:19:19 Not natively, but you can sort of fudge it using SRFI 26 if I remember the number right. 02:19:21 egads! it's cads. 02:19:37 evening, offby 02:19:43 Operative word being "fudge" here, by the way. :-P 02:20:15 I bet I could write a higher order function that partially applies a function by constructing a closure 02:20:38 I'm sure you can. :-) 02:20:43 wait, I could potentially write my own curry function that way 02:21:05 (define (curry1 f a) (lambda args) (apply f a args)) 02:21:07 :-) 02:21:14 functional programming makes me desire popodoms 02:21:20 Num nums! 02:22:40 Armageddon00 [n=danking@c-76-24-230-228.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:22:42 *offby1`* himself was more in the bread-and-jam mood 02:23:09 hrm, writing functions in fully curried form still requires ugly tweaking 02:23:43 (define (curryn f . args) (lambda more (apply f (append args more)))) 02:24:24 (The curry1 I posted above has a bracket in the wrong place, obviously.) 02:24:53 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 02:25:05 it's interesting to note that in haskell all functions take absolutely just one argument, always returning a function that takes one or zero arguments, which may be applied to the next argument in line after the function 02:25:25 no wonder it needs that crazy ass compiler 02:25:50 Hehehehe. 02:26:39 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:27:01 rudybot_ [n=luser@li11-10.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 02:27:17 rudybot_: seen rudybot 02:27:17 offby1`: No sign of rudybot 02:27:25 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 02:27:40 rudybot is dead. Long live rudybot_. 02:27:41 cky: for your first curry example should it not be this: (define (curry1 f a) (lambda args (apply f (cons a args)))) 02:27:50 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:27:58 It should be: (define (curry1 f a) (lambda args (apply f a args))) 02:28:10 You don't need to cons a list, apply will do that for you. 02:28:26 rudybot_: eval (define (curry1 f a) (lambda args (apply f a args))) 02:28:44 -!- btw0 [n=wu@mail.madk.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:28:46 mqt_ [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has joined #scheme 02:28:49 rudybot_: eval ((curry1 list 'a) 'snork) 02:28:50 offby1: ; Value: (a snork) 02:28:51 dudrenov: All non-final arguments to apply will be consed in with the list in the final argument. 02:28:51 jcowan [n=jcowan@dsl-74-209-22-88.taconic.net] has joined #scheme 02:28:52 btw0` [n=wu@mail.madk.org] has joined #scheme 02:29:01 -!- mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:29:08 I did not know that. 02:29:18 eww, "non-final" sounds like Java 02:29:26 Thanks, learned something new today 02:29:26 offby1: Hahaha. 02:30:00 Glad to be of help. :-) 02:30:55 *jcowan* unvanishes, raggedly and only partially. 02:31:59 -!- btw0` is now known as btw0 02:39:34 *offby1* closes one eye, the better to match jcowan's partial-ness 02:40:01 jcowan: so have you heard the news? rudybot took a core dump. 02:40:06 right there on the Oriental 02:40:08 very messy 02:40:27 I've been having a great many core dumps myself of late. From both ends. 02:40:29 that was a rather tasteless joke, even for me. 02:40:59 what says your grandson? (seen in jcowan's .sig: "Ask me about my grandchildren!") 02:41:19 I'm away from him for a week, and it seems he has become the Howlinator in full since I left. 02:41:23 see http://recycledknowledge.blogspot.com/2008/12/recycled-nursery-rhymes-and-songs-for.html 02:41:24 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/7v6p5m 02:41:40 can someone comment on the quality of the SICP lectures in DivX vs MPEG formats? 02:42:02 I have the divx ones, but they have poor video quality 02:42:11 yeah, I saw that. 02:42:22 maybe that's what inspired my tasteless crack .. 02:42:25 oops, did it again 02:42:39 Leonidas: I never bothered watching those. Too big a download 02:43:10 It's better to just read the book. 02:43:58 *Leonidas* has the book too 02:44:14 *cky* has the online version of the book. :-P 02:44:30 I even if you, like me, started doing every single exercise in the book got to chapter 5 and the got married. 02:44:51 But maybe they are saying something of interest in the videos. And besides, on vacation I don't have much love for textbooks ;) 02:45:13 dudrenov: :) 02:45:17 I hear there are funny jokes, or one of them wears a clown nose or something 02:46:58 one of the wears a fez(hat) at one point and a magick wand and a cape 02:47:10 I hear Jay McCarthy's son has a tooth. 02:48:39 yhara_ [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:50:08 -!- yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:50:38 http://rottyforge.yi.org/cgi-bin/darcsweb.cgi?r=test-manager;a=summary 02:51:30 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:52:30 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 02:54:08 Unieuro [n=Unieuro@host68-156-static.29-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 02:54:29 member:identifier:unieuroù 02:54:54 rotty: that looks so much like gitweb that I was searching for the git URL :-| 02:55:17 offby1: it's the default theme, I think 02:58:50 yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:59:09 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 02:59:50 -!- yhara_ [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:03:16 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 03:08:47 -!- dudrenov [n=user@h-67-101-217-41.snfccasy.covad.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:11:17 offby1: not a friend of darcs? 03:11:37 neither a friend nor an enemy 03:11:40 just haven't used it 03:12:05 (if '() 1 2) --> 1 03:12:08 is this supposed to happen? 03:12:14 I thought '() == nil == false 03:12:37 I found darcs to be the most simple/easiest to use of the dvcs I tried (darcs, git, arch, bzr, hg) 03:12:58 Of that list, yeah, I guess so. 03:13:04 hml: apparently not 03:13:09 hml: 0 is also true :) 03:13:36 jcowan: what (else) do yo have in mind? 03:13:54 I hear good things about svk, but I have never used it myself. 03:13:55 hml: nope, only #f is false 03:14:02 rudybot_: eval (if '() 1 2) 03:14:02 offby1: ; Value: 1 03:14:07 rudybot_: eval (if 'snork 1 2) 03:14:12 offby1: ; Value: 1 03:14:16 rudybot_: eval (if #t 1 2) 03:14:16 offby1: ; Value: 1 03:14:19 rudybot_: eval (if #f 1 2) 03:14:20 offby1: ; Value: 2 03:14:24 rudybot_: eval (if (not (not 'snork)) 1 2) 03:14:25 offby1: ; Value: 1 03:14:35 jcowan: are you serious? 03:14:36 svk? 03:14:40 *offby1* wrinkles his nose 03:14:40 hml: historically Scheme systems allowed '() to be false, or even to be eq? to #f, but since R5RS this is no longer permitted. 03:15:02 offby1: I report only what I've heard. Don't shoot the messenger. 03:15:34 wow 03:16:59 *rotty* was surprised about that too 03:17:20 I tried svk years ago. Never got to trust it. 03:17:32 Now it has the stench of abandonment to it 03:17:44 That may have been when svn was on the old BDB-based back end. With the FSFS back end, I have implicit faith in it. 03:17:48 rudybot_: eval (null? #f) 03:17:49 hml: ; Value: #f 03:17:50 I merely looked at it years ago, and decided it was not worth trying 03:17:54 the back end, that is. 03:18:04 what's wrong with git? 03:18:19 Nothing, except that it's very hairy. It's obviously reliable. 03:18:25 jcowan: we've used bdb at work for ever. Bdb is fine _if_ you have an admin who can deal with it. 03:18:30 git is rather on the complicated, but I can bear it 03:18:38 For the normal human on a small project, though, fsfs is easier 03:18:39 s/complicated /complex side/ 03:18:56 yeah, I've become a git fan myself. 03:18:57 To wit: 03:19:00 rudybot_: version 03:19:00 offby1: 519dc2a 03:19:04 that's a git SHA1 03:19:09 rudybot_: source 03:19:10 offby1: http://github.com/offby1/rudybot 03:19:11 etc. 03:19:52 *offby1* makes a mental note: stick the version info into the output of "source" 03:20:25 Why not fix it on the spot? Isn't that why you have a DVCS? 03:21:29 what's the inspiration behind '() being true? 03:21:39 jcowan: because it's not immediately obvious how to code it up, and I have to think about it first? 03:22:22 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:22:34 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 03:22:55 hml: the rule is, #f is false, all else is true; personally I would be happy if #t was true, #f was false, and all else was an error. 03:23:22 Allowing the empty list to be false was meant to cater to older Schemes, possibly built on underlying Lisps, that had a NIL that was both () and false. 03:23:31 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 03:23:47 not to bitch, but it seems kinda convenient where if I can find something, I return a list of it 03:23:51 if I can't find something I return '() 03:23:59 no reason you can't do that. 03:24:09 Then you just want to test against (null? thing), rather than plain old thing. 03:24:19 and now, instead of doing (let ((results (...))) (if results ... I have to do (if (not (null? results)) ... 03:24:25 true. 03:24:47 if you're gonna map over the results, though, you don't need to do anything special. 03:26:54 If you find (not (null? ...)) ugly, define a trivial function. Your compiler will probably inline it anyhow. 03:30:21 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:32:03 To #f or to nil. That is the question. 03:35:18 Then of course there is 'nil, the (boring) atom named "nil". 03:35:41 in traditional lisps (car nil) = (cdr nil) = nil = () = 'nil. 03:36:01 in a perverse way, i like that 03:36:07 i can see how it makes handling lots of edge cases trivial 03:36:16 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:36:19 Too trivial. It's more likely to conceal bugs. 03:36:39 C implementations on older computers could rely on the fact that *NULL == NULL, 03:37:03 but later systems decided to leave NULL unmapped, so that *NULL would be a memory fault. 03:37:27 i do admit, i do see how the later systems caught some previous unseen bugs 03:37:33 *jcowan* takes the opportunity to advertise the predicate end?, defined as follows: 03:37:35 maybe this #f = false, all else = true does have some merit to it 03:38:29 (define (end? p) (if (null? p) #f (if (pair? p) #t (error "Improper list")))) 03:38:51 oops, swap #f and #t in that 03:40:00 couldn't you write that as (not (pair? p)) ? 03:40:17 guess not. 03:40:27 nemmine. 03:40:53 You can define it as end? or more? as you please, but the point is that it errors when it hits a tail that is neither nil nor another pair. 03:43:21 -!- Unieuro [n=Unieuro@host68-156-static.29-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has left #scheme 03:44:24 brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 03:44:47 la la la 03:45:45 hjörf hjörf hjörf. 03:46:09 kinda OT, I need a word that starts with T, is a vehicle of some sort, and really powerful, i.e. like Tank, but more powerful (thinking of of acronyms for a game) 03:46:17 it's written in scheme, this the relation to #scheme 03:46:19 *synx* tries to pronounce hjörf 03:47:26 hml: Thorshammer 03:47:35 tomohawk 03:48:08 Thebigdaddy 03:48:10 more powerful than a tank?! 03:48:18 Troglodyte! 03:48:25 Titanic! 03:48:32 Teuton! 03:48:38 Oh, Titan! 03:48:45 Tinkerbell! 03:48:46 Norse giants <3 03:48:51 toothpick 03:48:57 tinkerbell xD 03:49:06 tonka truck 03:49:16 Totaller 03:49:23 i like tomohawk, the missle; thanks! 03:49:28 titan's good too :-) 03:49:33 except zeus owned them 03:49:49 oh its tomahawk 03:51:28 hml_ [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 03:51:33 -!- hml_ [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:51:40 Tomahawk, or Tommo for short, I believe. 03:51:44 But not Tomohawk. 03:52:12 Thomas Hauk 03:52:23 Homohawk ? 03:52:34 back to work, so for (define (find-first-of key assoc-list) ... where if it find something, it returns (key . value), if it doesn't find it, should it return '() or #f? which is more consistent & why? [I can't decide either way; though I'm starting to learn towards #f, I see no advantage whatsoever to '()] 03:52:43 -!- sam___ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:53:06 read how "assq" works, and do what it does. 03:53:11 Since you're basically writing it. 03:53:13 and memq 03:53:21 assqisser 03:53:24 *offby1* slaps thigh 03:58:57 (define x 10)(define x 20) ;; this doesn't result in any errors 03:59:15 is it okay to define an already defined var, or should I force the user to use set! for the second time while define for the first time? 03:59:56 ha, that's a tough one. 04:00:11 I can hear the PLT people cursing under their breaths about the top level 04:02:01 elmex_ [n=elmex@e180064163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:05:40 let's see if this is correct. if define finds the symbol in the current environment; it overwrites it. if definen doesn't findn the symbol in the current environment, it creates it in the current environment;;; if set! fifnds the symbol in the current environment, it overwrites it; if not, it looks through all the parent environments recursively, until it finds the sybmol -- if it finds the symbol, it overwrites that entry & returns; if it doesn't find it in any 04:17:09 then it whines. 04:17:11 sounds right to me. 04:17:38 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180068079.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:17:41 -!- elmex_ is now known as elmex 04:21:44 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 04:22:50 -!- XTL [i=t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:25:13 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:25:17 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 04:29:43 -!- offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:32:08 dudrenov [n=user@c-69-181-124-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:32:21 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:32:41 la la la 04:32:54 XTL [i=t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has joined #scheme 04:33:52 la la la 04:38:00 offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 04:38:45 see, duncanm is one of those guys who leads with quiet authority. He never told us to all say "la la la", and yet here we were, saying it. 04:38:47 *offby1* nods gravely 04:38:53 let that be a lesson to you all 04:38:59 lesson learned 04:39:00 s/were/are/ 04:39:02 la la la! 04:40:17 wow 04:40:34 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-73-100-241.dsl.dytnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:41:31 jso [n=user@host-154-148-107-208.midco.net] has joined #scheme 04:43:14 all he has to do now is climb onto a podium and order us to loot Fort Knox and bring him the gold 04:43:45 hml: attempts to set! an unknown variable may or may not work, depending on the Scheme in question. 04:44:11 offby1: why don't you have ERC try offby2, offby3 &c. instead of adding nick ticks? 04:44:18 it would be cuter 04:44:24 zbigniew: ... because I don't know how to make it do that 04:44:36 and believe me, I value "cute" 04:45:32 I think you can set |erc-nick| to a list of strings rather than just a single string 04:45:40 yep 04:45:43 just read that this second. 04:46:48 Of course The Right Thing would be to allow it to be a string-generating procedure 04:47:46 -!- brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 04:49:08 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 04:49:48 yes, but I didn't write ERC 04:49:51 that's probably in there somewhere 04:50:10 Elly: ? 04:50:13 I remember wanting it before and figuring out how to do it 04:50:21 But the details have escaped my transient mind. 04:50:24 *offby1* checks the channel name 04:50:32 -!- r2q2 is now known as offbyn 04:50:33 r2q2: can I help you? 04:50:39 Elly: Do I know you? 04:50:45 You want fries with that? 04:50:50 Maybe, but not documented. You can use |erc-nick-uniquifier| to append a unique string, I was going to suggest "+1" but it's not allowed by RFC 2812 04:51:19 I vaguely think I redefined the relevant function. 04:51:21 -!- offbyn is now known as r2q2 04:51:21 offbyn: ok then! 04:51:24 offbyn: you just said my name 04:51:39 -!- offby1 is now known as PotatoHead 04:51:51 -!- PotatoHead is now known as offby2 04:52:04 bpalmer: indeed. but a list of strings is probably sufficient here 04:52:26 given offby1's recent flurry of logins, might be a long list. 04:52:30 -!- offby2 is now known as offby1 04:52:40 *offby1* pouts 04:52:54 and that kids is why they invented virtual memory 04:53:38 what's next on the untold histories of computer science? The real reason we use "mice" is to attract lolcats? 04:54:05 Elly: nvm. 04:55:43 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:04:41 isn't cs over anyway? and the new hot thing bioengineering? 05:09:53 "There will always be a future in computer maintenance." --Deteriorata 05:11:09 that's a good line 05:12:19 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:12:28 Horrible, horrible poem though. 05:17:00 yhara_ [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:17:09 -!- yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:17:36 *jcowan* observes that people rarely go past 2 in suffixes 05:17:56 I use a lot of nicks when roleplaying, and I routinely add 3 to the end without a peep from Nickserv. 05:19:39 one of the drawbacks with the gpg-tor thing is you can't change your nick. 05:19:49 jcowan: wow, did Deteriorata really say that? I'd forgotten. 05:19:59 But I do remember the bit about my dog finally getting enough cheese. 05:22:06 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 05:23:47 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["leaving"] 05:27:20 synx: ironic, isn't it: you are kept completely anonymous from Real World people, but you can't become anonymous to those who know you only by nick. 05:28:03 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176206151.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:28:44 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176217060.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:29:10 yep 05:29:40 jcowan: it does seem ironic, yes. you could always look at the hostmask though even if someone changes their nick. 05:30:07 True. 05:33:18 You could look at my hostmask too, which is unique for each gpg-tor user. So really no need to prevent nick changes... I just recall doing so and getting kicked off the server. 05:33:27 Probably an implementation detail. 05:45:45 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:46:32 Maybe it made the proxy go out of sync. 05:54:57 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@dsl-74-209-22-88.taconic.net] has left #scheme 06:01:29 ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 06:01:42 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:01:42 -!- dudrenov [n=user@c-69-181-124-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:01:42 dudrenov [n=user@c-69-181-124-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:02:08 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 06:02:19 is there any good library for procedurla modelinig in scheme? 06:02:27 or generating chibi characteres in scheme? 06:02:57 *offby1* stares blankly 06:03:16 chibi? 06:03:17 -!- Motoko_Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 06:03:24 most questions of the form "is there a library to do X in scheme" are better phrased as "is there a library to do X in scheme implementation Y" 06:03:28 for a fixed value of Y 06:03:33 it's a style of manga drawing where the boxy is 2-3x the size of the head 06:03:35 as oppossed to 7 06:03:46 *offby1* stares blankly some more 06:04:22 my very strong hunch is: no, there are no libraries for styles of manga drawing where the boxy is 2-3x the size of the head in scheme. 06:04:42 drats 06:05:06 also, move back 3 spaces 06:05:19 anyone here tried procedurla synthesis of music or animal soudns? 06:05:48 and this is why you don't IRC whilst drunk 06:05:55 i'm sober 06:06:00 sleep deprived though 06:06:54 haskell soe has a section on procedural music synthesis 06:06:59 I'm suprised scheme does not 06:08:49 I'm surprised you don't have a bad case of qwertyuitis. 06:09:04 what's qwertyuitis ? 06:09:45 Take the top 7 or 8 letters of your keyboard, and scratch them vigorously 06:10:02 It's a condition that afflicts sleepy IRCers, after their fascination with procedurla muisc synhtesis has given way to dreams. 06:10:13 oh, my poor disk. I let my errant program run a minute or so ... and it created empty files as fast as it could ... it's taking far longer to delete them than it took to create them 06:10:39 offby1: format C: 06:10:43 that's why i store everything in tmpmfs 06:10:45 yeah! that'll cure it 06:10:45 *tmpfs* 06:10:51 and just store important stuff to svn 06:10:52 this happens to be /var/tmp 06:11:10 is /var/tmp ram backed? 06:11:32 no, but it is humpbacked 06:11:33 hml, try setting your brain to hibernate mode, or suspend mode, or whatever is now the fashionable term for what Apple calls `sleep'. 06:12:42 why? i haven't finished my scheme interpreter yet 06:12:58 i think i'll name it scheme72 06:13:01 You can finish it in the morning. 06:13:11 that might push it to scheme96 06:13:16 or rather 84 06:15:21 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["leaving"] 06:15:38 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:22:13 -!- isomer [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:25:21 isomer [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 06:30:17 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:35:55 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:36:23 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 06:36:32 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 06:41:50 amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-81-104.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 06:41:51 -!- amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-81-104.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 06:41:51 amca_ [n=amca@CPE-121-208-81-104.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 06:42:18 -!- amca_ [n=amca@CPE-121-208-81-104.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:42:30 amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-81-104.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 06:43:03 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 06:50:24 offby0xffff [n=fIRCuser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 06:50:44 *sniff* *sniff* 06:51:39 *amca* pats offby0xffff better. 06:52:00 damn. why's it take so much longer to delete these empty files, than it took to create 'em? 06:52:25 Which filesystem? 06:52:30 ext3 06:53:13 off-topic, i know 06:53:43 this irc client can only connect to 1 channel at a time :) 06:54:40 O_O 06:54:51 How come? 06:55:02 lameness. 06:56:25 Is that its name? The Lameness IRC Client? :) 06:59:38 it's for the android phone 07:00:04 Ah 07:01:26 I can't even think of a tool that will show me stats for my file system, like number of free inodes 07:01:30 *offby1* drums fingers 07:01:37 -!- offby0xffff [n=fIRCuser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit ["Powered by fIRC v0.1.3, The android IRC client."] 07:03:25 df 07:04:05 really? 07:04:23 geez, I should have known that. Thanks. 07:07:02 So should have I >.> 07:07:42 good, I can see the free inode count rising. (Annoyingly slowly, but that's better than nothing.) 07:10:50 geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-73-100-241.dsl.dytnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 07:11:48 finished! finally. 07:13:02 -!- Armageddon00 [n=danking@c-76-24-230-228.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 07:13:03 *amca* holds a Free The Inodes convention celebration 07:14:18 did you create all those files in the same directory? 07:15:26 program went crazy 07:15:31 yes, same directory 07:16:22 i wonder if you should unlink that directory ... what does `ls -ld /var/tmp` say 07:16:29 it's gonenow 07:16:49 drwxrwxrwt 4 root root 4096 Dec 29 23:11 /var/tmp/ 07:16:59 that is, the original directory is gone. 07:17:06 its size was like eight digits. 07:17:07 scary 07:17:18 ok, that's what i was getting at 07:20:32 hmm, unlink it, then fsck? 07:23:34 What exactly was going on, offby1? 07:24:01 oh, a program I'd written ran amok 07:25:07 BAT file virus under dosbox? :) 07:31:21 Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 07:40:30 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 07:42:41 -!- mqt_ is now known as mqt 07:57:05 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["leaving"] 08:02:20 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 08:14:54 -!- jso [n=user@host-154-148-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:15:11 -!- amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-81-104.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit ["Farewell"] 08:22:20 offby1: no, unlink/fsck may be unwise. i thought you had dumped everything into /var/tmp and was going to suggest you recreate that directory since (as you noticed) the size was gigantic; but you already removed the directory 08:23:44 jso [n=user@host-154-148-107-208.midco.net] has joined #scheme 08:31:20 -!- yhara_ [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 08:41:50 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:44:46 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0569FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 09:15:19 -!- jso [n=user@host-154-148-107-208.midco.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 09:19:33 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-5-26.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 09:23:56 offby2 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 09:29:42 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0569FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:33:24 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-24-65.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:36:54 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 09:37:48 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:38:11 -!- offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:39:23 offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 09:44:52 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:47:23 -!- glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:49:47 glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has joined #scheme 09:56:27 dzhus [n=user@95-24-29-52.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 09:59:03 barney [n=bernhard@p549A06BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 10:00:59 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 10:13:37 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 10:19:35 Maddas [n=Maddas@tardis-b23.ee.ethz.ch] has joined #scheme 10:19:47 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 10:22:57 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:23:13 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 10:25:18 Hullo! 10:25:32 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-4f22e3f673adaaab] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:26:55 Hullo 10:28:41 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:32:54 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 10:34:34 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 10:44:37 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 11:00:33 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-166-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 11:03:26 jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 11:10:53 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:12:22 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:12:34 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-144.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 11:15:30 -!- G-Brain [n=G-Brain@ip4da02711.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:23:11 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 11:23:18 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE30A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 11:44:50 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2105.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:07:05 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:16:00 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 12:18:34 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:23:05 pcd 12:24:26 -!- btw0 [n=wu@mail.madk.org] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:24:40 -!- jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:33:21 btw0 [n=wu@mail.madk.org] has joined #scheme 12:39:15 klutometis: ? 12:41:37 Google says that's 'pussycat dolls' )) 12:42:21 Sexy 12:43:26 Schemy ))) 12:44:17 Why is it when I see movies with a antiutopian feeling that I see the world how it is now. Its scary. 12:44:35 I find r6rs spec is boring to read, any readable doc for that? 12:44:54 btw0: For what? For learning scheme? 12:45:16 r2q2: Well, all of us have such a feeling from time to time I believe 12:45:32 r6rs scheme preferable 12:45:42 btw0: Wait for the next version of the scheme programming language to come out. 12:45:57 btw0: Maybe the google group about r6rs or the mailing list might help. 12:46:27 brw0: You may start with any scheme guide you like and then just check r6rs for the details 12:47:00 btw0: I'd recommend 'An introduction to scheme and its implementation' - you can google it 12:47:21 Mr-Cat: will check it out, thanks 12:47:24 Mr-Cat: Yea either that or I have been reading too much reddit. 12:47:41 I know basic scheme as introduced in sicp 12:48:01 but a more formal introduction would be nice 12:48:19 btw0: What do you mean ? 12:48:24 btw0: A introduction to r6rs? 12:48:43 btw0: After SICP a good book is Lisp in small pieces. 12:48:49 btw0: Thats more hard core. 12:49:22 r2q2: i mean practical scheme, i think that's implementation specific things, like package loading 12:49:44 OH. 12:49:56 btw0: docs.plt-scheme.org/ 12:50:26 btw0: You can probably start at the guide or MORE I think quick is too easy for you. 12:50:26 r2q2: yeah, tons of docs there 12:50:57 btw0: r6rs lacks implementation-specific stuff 12:51:16 Yea r6rs is implementation neutral its designed for implementors to follow in good faith. 12:51:58 it seems sticking with plt would be ok 12:52:32 PLT is very well documented. 12:52:51 It also has a great deal of libraries. 12:53:10 I believe so. They've got 'plt-r6rs' - it will not let you make non-standard stuff 12:53:47 Note to use plt-r6rs you have to set your language manually. 12:53:49 I agree, docs are just perfect, the only downside is its speed 12:54:10 Then you can try ypsilon or ikarus 12:54:27 Yea but those are really new schemes 12:54:32 I tried ikarus, it's just premature. 12:54:42 If you write your code in ONLY r6rs then they will work across all schemes. 12:54:50 If you want batteries included you need a scheme like pLT> 12:55:06 r2q2: wrong window 12:55:18 Mr-Cat: heh; nice expansion of the acronym 12:55:22 r2q2: Right, but yesterday we've found out, that r6rs implementations can handle some things in a different way. For example, resolving library names to paths to source files. 12:55:42 Oh thats interesting. 12:55:53 I didn't know that. 12:56:00 Is that a bug or a feature? 12:56:59 (in the spec not the implementation) 13:00:57 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 13:03:21 benny [n=benny@i577A2105.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 13:03:46 ExcelsisD [i=email@89-180-133-145.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 13:06:46 borism [n=boris@195-50-201-40-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 13:10:26 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.142.82] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:10:36 jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has joined #scheme 13:11:13 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.176.218] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:13:17 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-064-139-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 13:13:21 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-203-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:13:47 -!- mike is now known as Guest96572 13:15:10 -!- ExcelsisD is now known as X-Scale 13:20:06 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:28:01 -!- Guest96572 [n=mike@dslb-088-064-139-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:40:10 huh, what is oalkisp? (just noticed in debian rep) 13:43:16 -!- DuClare [n=duclare@a81-197-106-84.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit ["Changing server"] 13:44:38 DuClare [n=duclare@a81-197-106-84.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 13:49:38 mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 13:55:09 mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-241-84-175.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 14:03:14 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 14:06:37 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:07:23 choas [n=lars@p5B0DD152.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:12:12 -!- mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:21:14 mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 14:26:25 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 14:26:44 -!- mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-241-84-175.msy.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:34:44 r2q2: Sorry for the late answer. It's just lack of standartization in what concernes resolving library names to paths 14:35:20 The difference is not fatal, of course. It mainly concernes how one-component library names are resolved 14:36:56 Mr-Cat: I think cl does name resolution in a library or something. 14:37:11 cl? 14:37:15 common lisp? 14:37:34 Yea common lisp 14:37:47 Wait maybe not forget that. 14:38:12 rmrfchik: Ancient Lisp dialect (somewhat close to R4RS Scheme). 14:38:35 i wonder why it raised from ashes.. 14:38:47 It's been in Debian for eons. 14:39:38 I saw it as new packaged today. and now it hosted on alioth 14:42:40 rmrfchik: Be careful with ancient lisp dialects. They have spiders in them. 14:42:57 mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-157-35-100.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 14:43:03 -!- mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:43:06 *rmrfchik* running scared. NOT MY BRAIN 14:43:24 rmrfchik: Don't worry Riastradh tames spiders. 14:43:37 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 14:47:06 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #scheme 14:50:52 sam__ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 15:03:02 vasa [n=vasa@mm-56-88-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 15:03:16 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 15:10:02 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:12:37 morning 15:20:19 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:26:34 ExcelsisD [i=email@89.180.187.98] has joined #scheme 15:30:58 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:33:48 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 15:40:01 luz [n=davids@201.29.159.221] has joined #scheme 15:45:00 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89-180-133-145.net.novis.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:50:31 duncanm: Guten tag. 15:51:22 -!- rmrfchik [n=paul@62.117.74.154] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:53:40 mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 15:53:42 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 15:59:12 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 15:59:23 *hml* has awaken. Time to finish scheme96 15:59:52 scheme in 96 days? 16:00:36 kuribas [i=kristof@d54C430AF.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 16:00:44 Scheme in 96 hours? 16:00:48 Like scheme48? 16:00:56 like scheme48 16:01:01 Oh cool. 16:01:04 but twice as good, since 96=2x48 16:01:08 NOICE. 16:01:15 Like r6rs good or ERR5RS GOOD? 16:01:42 hml, will you say a bit about it? 16:02:05 You can't keep us in suspense. 16:02:17 Or can you git it to us? 16:02:25 it's actually utter crap, i'm building it on top of scheme and this is my first time writing a non-toy scheme interpreter 16:02:50 given the dumb questions I've asked here, you won't want to use it :-) 16:02:56 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.49.16.225] has joined #scheme 16:03:24 Well, is it metacircular? 16:03:49 of course; the only 'interesting' thing about it really is a weird way to 'unify' macros/functions 16:03:49 What have you defined so far? 16:03:56 OH show us that. 16:03:56 "on top of scheme"? 16:03:56 which probably just means that I don't understand macros very well 16:04:12 lisppaste? 16:04:16 lisppaste: url? 16:04:16 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 16:04:37 does that mean you implemented it in scheme 16:04:43 yes, scheme in scheme 16:04:49 let me finish it first, i will paste later 16:04:56 vixey: See sicp chapter 4. 16:05:10 r2q2, jjust shush 16:05:16 hml, and it's an interpreter 16:05:17 ? 16:05:24 this #:keyword is not R6RS syntax, is it? 16:05:39 Leonidas, well it's not R5RS 16:05:53 yeah, afaik, if it's compilex, macros have to compile at compile time; but i want the flexibility of macros at run time as well 16:05:59 so everything is interpreted 16:06:02 vixey: you don't know what a metacircular interpreter is do you? 16:06:13 vixey: look at that chapter. 16:06:37 Leonidas: Sounds like plt syntax. 16:06:53 r2q2, You keep babbling, demanding things and making the bot post links. It makes it very hard to actually communicate here 16:07:07 vixey: I wanted him to lisppaste his code. 16:07:18 r2q2: yes, plt accepts this, I am trying to find out whether to tag it in my code as mzism or not. 16:07:23 vixey: Why when I talk to you it always degrades into an argument. 16:07:35 Leonidas: Its a mzism. I see it only in plt scheme code. 16:07:43 ok, good to know. 16:07:50 Leonidas: its for functions which are optional arguments. 16:08:00 hml, I can't guess what you mean by "flexibility of macros at run time" 16:08:53 has someone code with the #-shortcut syntax that R6RS defined? I want to highlight it properly, but I haven't yet seen code that uses it. 16:08:59 Leonidas: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/guide/keywords.html 16:09:25 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 16:09:26 Leonidas: That has highlighted source code. 16:09:57 -!- mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-157-35-100.msy.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:11:29 hml, will you explain? 16:12:16 Is there any example code which uses #,@ or #' or #` etc? 16:13:39 Leonidas: Uhh. 16:14:09 Leonidas: http://github.com/vegashacker/leftparen/tree/s/page.scm 16:15:56 Leonidas: I would color those things green myself. 16:16:11 r2q2: but these are only #:, not #' 16:16:20 Leonidas: I have never seen those. 16:16:29 Leonidas: Where have you seen those?? 16:16:53 R6RS, syntax-quote, syntax-quasiquote, syntax-unsplice 16:17:01 langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 16:17:17 http://www.r6rs.org/final/html/r6rs/r6rs-Z-H-7.html#node_sec_4.3.5 16:17:50 unsyntax-splicing actually, not syntax-unsplice :) 16:18:28 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/stx-patterns.html#(form._((lib._scheme/private/qqstx..ss)._quasisyntax)) 16:18:41 nevermind color as black. 16:21:37 Leonidas: Did that help? 16:21:38 *Leonidas* will add a plt-style that uses the same colors as the plt web-site 16:21:42 -!- bpalmer [n=user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:21:49 If in doubt ask plt. 16:31:50 X-Scale [i=email@89.180.64.225] has joined #scheme 16:32:17 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:32:45 bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 16:35:18 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 16:35:42 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 16:36:51 -!- ExcelsisD [i=email@89.180.187.98] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:40:28 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 16:42:30 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 16:43:27 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:44:40 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:51:26 hml, guess not -_- 17:08:54 so does anyone use a logging package with scheme? i.e., one that keeps log files to a certain size, and automatically names them? 17:11:13 rudybot_: uptime 17:11:14 offby2: I've been up for fourteen hours, forty-four minutes; this tcp/ip connection has been up for fourteen hours, forty-four minutes 17:26:14 Eleanore [n=a@ip215131.lbinternet.se] has joined #scheme 17:26:56 ExcelsisD [i=email@89.181.85.186] has joined #scheme 17:39:39 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:41:51 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:45:52 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.64.225] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:49:44 synthasee [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:53:47 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 17:56:58 qen [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #scheme 18:12:45 xvc [n=chatzill@82-69-45-88.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:14:46 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 18:17:45 -!- ExcelsisD [i=email@89.181.85.186] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:20:03 mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-222-48-18.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 18:20:13 -!- mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:22:01 -!- dudrenov [n=user@c-69-181-124-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:23:46 offby2: Keep a list of logging messages. 18:23:53 offby2: persist the list to disk on shutdown. 18:23:59 offby2: Read the list on startup. 18:24:07 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:24:47 synthasee [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:26:32 r2q2, (I think he was asking if there was already an implementation, not how to program one) 18:27:25 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 18:30:23 Leonidas: it's neither r5rs nor r6rs 18:30:23 r2q2: ugh. 18:30:34 r2q2: I typically want to examine the logs _while the program is running_ 18:31:36 and vixey is right: I'd (naturally) prefer something already-written. 18:31:43 (I'm trying to write my own now, and it's surprisingly tricky) 18:32:33 offby2: i've done a logging package, but it has no rotating file handlers 18:32:40 ah well. 18:32:59 I'm getting tired of rudybot's log being this gi-normous file 18:34:59 ; :: // == ???? ;; /* ... */ 18:36:12 \|*,*|/ 18:36:37 emacs doesn't recognize it as highlighting 18:36:43 i'm looking for commenting out an entire region 18:36:51 #| ... |# 18:37:05 nice; thanks 18:37:23 I'm not sure that anyone understood "; :: // == ???? ;; /* ... */" as a question :p 18:37:39 i screwed up, the ;; shuld have been :: 18:37:50 offby2: I haven't seen any logging programs in planet. 18:37:57 r2q2: nor have I. 18:38:08 for logging I just write to a fifo 18:38:10 Lemme try a deeper search. 18:38:11 hml: mark the region, then type M-; 18:38:12 and cat the fifo in a different terminal 18:38:13 ok but this bizarre _ :: _ == _ :: _ is less explicit than actually using words 18:38:34 isn't this standard notation ffor anyone who's taken the SAT / GREs :-) 18:38:40 or maybe foreign exams donm't use this 18:38:42 r2q2: I could in theory use the FFI to talk to a C library that does logging, but that might be as much work as writing my own library. 18:39:03 offby2: Couldn't you have a loop which prints out the logs to a console ? 18:39:04 vixey: anyway, the important thing is ... thanks for the #| ... |# tip 18:39:21 offby2: http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#JAWZ-c70kE4/share/guile/site/logging/logger.scm&q=logging%20program%20lang:scheme 18:39:22 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/6wl9l7 18:39:33 offby2: http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#A2sfQ7V5Y6o/Gauche-0.8.9/lib/gauche/logger.scm&q=logging%20program%20lang:scheme 18:39:34 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/axzeyl 18:39:47 oh, you're searching for scheme in general. 18:39:52 offby2: FWIW: http://rottyforge.yi.org/cgi-bin/darcsweb.cgi?r=spells;a=headblob;f=/scheme/logging.scm 18:39:53 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/9mdymt 18:40:02 rotty: thanks. 18:40:21 r2q2: "a loop which prints out the logs to a console" -- I don't understand that. I don't see how that would help me 18:40:42 offby2: While the data is being logged. 18:40:42 rotty: you mean #:keyword? Yeah, thats Mz-specific. 18:40:48 offby2: Output the current log file to a file. 18:40:55 offby2: couldn't you simply use logrotate? 18:40:56 offby2: As it is being logged and tail the file. 18:41:07 Leonidas: yes, and Guile (at least) has it as well 18:41:25 rotty: how well does sbank run on Mz? I say you on the Mailing list 18:41:34 rotty: good to know that. 18:41:49 Leonidas: steel bank common lisp? 18:41:52 rotty: I might be able to use logrotate; I've got that in my mental stack but haven't yet investigated it 18:41:58 *sladegen* votes for logrotate. 18:42:02 *Leonidas* does not have time to investigate into every Scheme implementation. 18:42:30 r2q2: no, the scheme version of pybank, a binding for all libraries that use gobject-introspection. 18:42:32 rotty: Did you ever get kali to run on a current scheme48? 18:42:39 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:43:10 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 18:43:22 Leonidas: it runs the three GTK+ demo modules stably, but there's still a lot of work wrt. to memotry managment (not specific to mzscheme, though), the thing is leaky as hell ;-) 18:43:59 r2q2: no, IIRC 18:44:32 rotty: cool, great work. I though about starting such a project myself but now I saw that there's sbank and that's better than I have planned :) 18:45:21 rotty: :-( oh well I will play with portable termite. 18:45:47 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 18:46:38 r2q2: I don't want to tail a file. I want the logs on disk, rather as they are now -- but in a bunch of reasonably-sized files, not one giant file. 18:46:58 r2q2: if you've run rudybot yourself you'll see that it creates that one giant file named "big-log". 18:47:12 Maybe I will patch it or something. 18:47:17 -!- xvc [n=chatzill@82-69-45-88.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.75.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1.14/0000000000]"] 18:47:37 offby2: logrotate addresses *exactly* this problem 18:47:45 offby2: why not run logrotate in cron? it's the typical solution I've seen - usually because people don't trust the process doing the logging to be with it enough to properly rotate 18:47:54 heh 18:48:02 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:48:56 andr3n [i=blogger_@217.129.2.137] has joined #scheme 18:49:18 (if you're using a GNU userland) 18:50:31 Hi 18:50:41 synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:50:55 rotty: yep, I see that 18:51:24 Does anyone here ever programmed the battleship game in scheme ? 18:51:25 I'd had this silly naïve notion that I'd be able to do this portably, but oh well. 18:51:38 andr3n: not I. Sounds pretty easy though 18:51:52 andr3n, I could do that with one hand behind my back! 18:51:54 andr3n: No. 18:52:00 but I haven't 18:52:00 andr3n: What are you having trouble with? 18:52:03 really ? 18:52:07 -!- offby2 is now known as offby1 18:52:14 andr3n: What question do you have about battleship? 18:52:30 r2q2: don't assume they have a question 18:52:44 vixey: Then why are they here? He already asked about battleship. 18:52:47 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:52:59 vixey: I am not assuming he has a question. he already stated his question. 18:53:03 I'm from portugal, and I have a degree in my university about scheme 18:53:06 r2q2, because you turn IRC into a question/answer session if you do this 18:53:10 and I got to do the battleship game 18:53:20 andr3n: So this is homework? 18:53:25 *gasp* 18:53:27 no, final project 18:53:28 lol 18:53:29 whoever heard of such a thing 18:53:39 *r2q2* is taken aback. 18:53:41 andr3n, you're getting a PHD in writing battleships in Scheme? 18:53:53 vixey: Why do you have to be so antagonistic? 18:54:09 andr3n: Where are you stuck in your final project? 18:54:14 vixey, sorry, what is a PHD ? 18:54:34 andr3n: Its a degree. The highest attainable. 18:54:46 andr3n, I really big waste of paper 18:54:55 yes, I have a degree only about scheme 18:55:12 andr3n: you mean you have courses about scheme? 18:55:21 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:55:26 or rather, 'using Scheme' 18:55:36 yes 18:55:51 andr3n: What is your question about implementing battleship? 18:56:00 so my question is: 18:56:02 r2q2, will you please? 18:56:16 vixey: Can you stop harassing the person with the question? 18:56:24 vixey: please, just let andr3n ask his question ;) 18:56:25 r2q2, what lol 18:56:35 r2q2, I'm not the one harassing them 18:56:40 I have and interface file where I can choose the position for my ships 18:56:41 vixey: yes you are. You can't read apparently. 18:56:55 andr3n: What is an interface file? 18:57:08 r2q2, you lost me there, no idea what you're referring to 18:57:12 vixey: Good. 18:57:42 r2q2, (not sure why you'd be saying things to me in order that I _don't_ understand them?) 18:57:47 vixey: I don't care. 18:57:53 it's a file with the extension .zo, which have the graphic enviroment 18:58:01 andr3n: So its a library correct? 18:58:02 r2q2, (so what was your goal again?) 18:58:10 andr3n: What scheme are you using to program this? 18:58:19 Ugh. logrotate needs to be root in order to spam /var/lib/logrotate/status. 18:58:29 DrScheme, version 372 18:58:33 Alright. 18:58:38 dudrenov [n=user@h-67-101-217-41.snfccasy.covad.net] has joined #scheme 18:58:41 andr3n: What is your language level? 18:58:43 offby1, can't you just chmod that specific directory? 18:59:00 Graphic (MrEd, include MzScheme). 18:59:05 offby1: it's an argument to logrotate (-s) 18:59:14 vixey: well, I could; I could also run the bot as root. I certainly don't want to do either of those things, though. 18:59:15 andr3n: Can you paste your code that you have so far? 18:59:20 lisppaste: url? 18:59:21 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 18:59:22 chandler: aha, thanks. 18:59:33 yes 18:59:50 andr3n: Use the lisppaste bot. 19:01:30 hmm ok 19:01:55 andr3n: Do you know the rules to battle ship? 19:02:32 andr3n: You have how many 10x10 grids? 19:03:16 I have a first window with one 10*10 grid 19:03:31 where I can choose the positions for my ships 19:04:00 then I shows 2 10*10 grid, where the right one is where I try to guess the oponent ships 19:04:12 you need 4 10 by 10 grids 19:04:23 1 to show the position of your ship 19:04:33 1 to show the position of the opponents ship 19:04:44 Wait make that two. 19:04:53 The grids have 3 possible states 19:05:03 I mean the elements of the grid have 3 possible states. 19:05:07 empty water 19:05:13 Occupied with a ship 19:05:18 Or hit with a ship 19:05:26 Actually 4 possible states you need to store a miss. 19:05:30 -!- chandler [n=chandler@opendarwin/developer/chandler] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:05:57 For each player you give them two grids 19:06:00 One of their ship 19:06:12 alp2 [n=alp2@host76-219-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 19:06:15 and one which shows if they have hit or they have missed. 19:08:29 hmm I understand what you are saying 19:08:46 but I just have 2 grid, because I have an interface window 19:09:11 and I need to create and automatic player too 19:09:11 Yea. 19:09:17 andr3n: Thats where it gets FUN. 19:09:32 andr3n: Think about how you play battleship. 19:09:43 the left grid is where I put the ships, the right one is where I try to guess 19:09:49 andr3n: When I play battleship I guess where the opponent is. 19:09:56 andr3n: How do you program a guess on a computer? 19:10:29 It's like I need to send a question 19:10:39 How do you guess regularly. 19:10:53 here. pick a number from 1-4? I will write down the number on my end. 19:11:05 You are trying to guess my number. 19:11:19 ok, I'll pick 2 19:11:47 andr3n: You picked what kind of number. A RANDOM NUMBER. 19:11:59 yes.. 19:11:59 andr3n: Now how would you do that with your battleship program? 19:12:10 First step is to pick a random element of the matrix. 19:12:18 What are the four conditions that can be seen? 19:13:04 Not to choose the same position twice 19:13:10 True. 19:13:12 What else? 19:13:52 If I hit a ship, I should play in a near position 19:13:55 melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 19:13:56 Right. 19:14:05 By near you mean. 19:14:10 Up down left or right 19:14:15 There are no diagonal ships right? 19:14:24 exactly 19:14:56 *rotty* didn't know "schifferl versenken" is "battleships" in english :-) 19:14:59 Alright. 19:15:08 I think you can figure out the rest? 19:15:13 what about the other two conditions ? 19:15:39 Vital303 [n=vital303@e181036112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 19:16:12 If a ship is occupied is handeled by a hit 19:16:36 I was wrong about those other two conditions you handeled them already. 19:18:46 But it doesn't matter if my automatic player is a intelligent or a fool player 19:18:59 andr3n: Yea it doesn't thats a general algorithm. 19:19:08 andr3n: I don't know if they want you to do anything more complicated. 19:19:13 the automatic player only need to know how to play 19:19:25 andr3n: And by the algorithm we discussed it would. 19:19:26 that's what they want me to do 19:19:41 -!- Vital303 [n=vital303@e181036112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:19:52 andr3n: Well we discussed how a automatic player would play 19:19:57 but my biggest problem are the ships 19:20:10 Describe your problem? 19:20:36 let me explain you the structure of what they want 19:20:48 rotty: "you versenkened my schifferl?" 19:21:07 (TV ads for "Battleship" always ended with one kid exclaiming: "You sunk my battleship!") 19:21:47 first: I have a procedure named: "Send message" which sends mensages to other procedures 19:22:51 Like this: (send-message 19:24:05 and they want me to create a procedure named "control" wich controls all the game 19:24:11 andr3n: okay. 19:24:36 then.. 19:24:39 andr3n: Do you have a link to the problem? 19:24:50 andr3n: Where is the whole problem description? 19:25:05 -!- Eleanore [n=a@ip215131.lbinternet.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:25:12 Eleanore [n=a@ip215131.lbinternet.se] has joined #scheme 19:25:22 -!- Eleanore [n=a@ip215131.lbinternet.se] has quit [Client Quit] 19:25:29 I have a file with that, but it's writen in portuguese =/ 19:25:31 andr3n: Well. Okay. I think I understand what you are getting at. 19:26:06 What do you think control would consist of? What would control have to do to send-messages? 19:27:06 I wanna thank you by now for your patience 19:27:09 =) 19:27:15 andr3n: Its alright. 19:27:31 let me explain you what procedure control is 19:28:11 in my interface window, I choose the positions of the ships and then I click in the botton 19:28:30 and then it sends a message to control procedure like this: 19:29:07 (send-message control 'receive-game ) 19:29:42 do you understand ? 19:29:59 -!- synthase [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 19:30:02 Yes. 19:30:24 This sounds like the actor model of computation almost. 19:30:24 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-133-135-72.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 19:30:47 You have an controller and 2 places where messages can be passed correct. 19:30:54 now the control procedure needs to verify if the it have all the ships 19:31:00 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-5-26.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:31:05 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 19:31:23 and if ships have the right form, example: one of theme have the form "T" 19:31:52 and the ships can't touch each other.. 19:32:22 here is the big problem 19:33:11 I can't figure out how to do this, because it's based on the positions that I choosed 19:33:30 ls 19:33:38 ps aux 19:33:41 The positions are a pair like this: ((2 . 1)(2 . 2) (2 . 3)) 19:34:23 There is a ship which is a T? 19:34:30 That has the form of a T? 19:34:34 yes 19:34:44 andr3n: Show me the position pairs of a T. 19:36:08 -!- sam__ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:36:12 ((4 . 2) (3 . 2) (2 . 3) (2 . 2) (2 . 1)) 19:37:16 do you think I need to define the ships ? 19:37:36 Wouldn't that save a lot of time? 19:37:58 then the procedure would only verify if the choosen positions are ships right ? 19:38:04 Yea. 19:38:40 how would you define a ship like that with form "T" ? 19:39:02 that's my problem.. 19:39:20 X-Scale [i=email@89.180.161.255] has joined #scheme 19:39:43 let me ask it easier 19:39:47 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@adsl-68-73-100-241.dsl.dytnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:40:03 Define a carrier 19:40:08 how would you define a ship with a form like this --- ? 19:40:09 synthasee [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:40:13 like ((2 . 1)(2 . 2) (2 . 3)) ? 19:40:39 ((2 . 1 ) (2 . 2) (2 . 3) (3 . 2) (4 . 2) (5 . 2)) 19:42:20 andr3n: Can the all ships be defined as '(position dimension mask) where position is '(x y) dimension is '(width height) mask is a list size of (* with height) with values #f or #t depending on the shape of the ship 19:42:39 what is the advantage of using improper listsZ 19:42:41 ? 19:43:07 I can't define the ship with the exact position 19:43:28 I need to define it so I can place it in any position of the grid 19:43:41 you define the position of the rectangle they occupy 19:45:21 how ? 19:45:53 because thie ships is a rectangle, but it can be in ,any diferent positions in the grid 19:46:38 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:46:41 are you understanding what I'm trying to say ? 19:46:42 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 19:46:42 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 19:46:55 maybe I'm missing the point, coz' I really don't see what would be the problem. 19:47:41 maybe it's me who is missing with :S 19:48:15 can you tell me how would you define it ? 19:48:48 Define a ship data structure? 19:49:05 yes 19:50:07 mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 19:50:44 I'd define a few predicates and transformations first. Like ship? ship-collision? ship-hit? move-ship rotate-ship etc. 19:51:11 Then based on that the actual internal representation would come into itself 19:51:25 dudrenov: Yea I was going to refer to ch2 of sicp. 19:51:46 r2q2: that's a good advice 19:52:00 The actual internal representation is irrelevant. 19:53:08 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html 19:53:55 thank you r2q2, I was looking for that book 19:54:33 dudrenov I understood what you told me, but it doesn't need to be so complex 19:55:03 I just need to define the ship based on the pair of position where it is placed 19:55:25 that will make it simpler :) 19:55:55 mxcarron [n=maxime@fedora/Pingoomax] has joined #scheme 19:55:56 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:56:13 so can you please help me with it ? 19:56:21 i'm a newbie is scheme :) 19:56:25 *in 19:57:18 -!- mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-222-48-18.msy.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 19:58:20 OK here is my recommendation '(x y matrix) then just use matrix transformations for the rest. 19:58:37 where the matrix is the actual shape of your ship. 19:59:02 Still that might not work for you. You should really think about how you want to manipulate the ships. 19:59:37 it's simple 19:59:43 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055BB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:00:38 I just need to place the ships on the grid, and then a procedure will verify if the pairs that I choosed have the formof a ship 20:01:33 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 20:02:01 Great scott I think he has it. 20:02:18 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #scheme 20:02:45 I already understood what I have to do 20:03:18 but I didn't understand how to do it yet :S 20:03:18 The short answer is that Scheme is not powerful enough to accomplish this. You need to use a more powerful language, such as Forth. 20:04:15 Blasphemy! 20:04:24 zbigniew: Yea. 20:04:40 zbigniew: Right. Forth is SO much more powerful than scheme. It can do the uncomputable right? 20:05:10 What's making it hard is that I have an interface window, and I have to communicate with it :S 20:05:21 I myself have fashioned a working battleship grid out of a washing machine motor and the judicious application of a few DUPs. 20:05:42 :-) omgwtflolbbqlulz 20:05:48 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:06:33 I'm stuck in the definition 20:06:48 AOLism at it's finest 20:06:49 of the ships 20:08:26 I don't wanna be boring, but just wanna ask one more thing 20:09:14 what's better? to define the ship ? or to define a procedure that verify the form of the ship ? 20:10:25 It is better to nobly suffer the slings and arrows of aaaaagh you sunk my battleship. 20:12:33 FYI. 20:13:55 andr3n: so in your own words what makes up a ship form? What are the requirements for a given shape/form to be considered a ship? 20:15:15 You need to answer those questions before you can do any of the rest. Incidentally that's the same as defining your predicates/transformators/constructors before the representation of your data :p 20:15:56 Example: A ship with this form "---" needs to have 3 consequtive positions like ((2 . 1)(2 . 2) (2 . 3)) 20:16:23 andr3n, no it doesn't 20:16:55 andr3n, I'd represent it as: (LONGBOAT NORTH 2 1) 20:17:41 (or perhaps (BOAT LONGBOAT NORTH 2 1) if I was using Lisp instead of Scheme) 20:17:51 andr3n: do you have predefined shapes of ships? 20:18:02 yes 20:18:37 Then all you need to do is iterate those and find the one that matches the chosen positons 20:18:41 if any match at all 20:19:15 yes is that 20:19:50 what I didn't understand is how can I define the shape 20:20:20 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-67-173-108-52.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["aunt jemima is the devil!"] 20:20:29 I just have one ship with a "T" shape, the other ones are lines 20:21:10 a matrix of 0s and 1s. 20:21:10 andr3n: as a matrix, maybe represented as a flat vector? 20:21:15 andr3n, why do you have a T ship? 20:21:51 because I have to place those predefined ships in the game 20:22:06 andr3n using my rep it could be like 20:22:21 (T-BOAT 3 4) 20:22:25 oops 20:22:28 (T-BOAT WEST 3 4) 20:23:06 so T-boat is the name right ? 20:23:31 I invent T 20:23:54 what about WEST ? 20:24:05 andr3n, NORTH SOUTH EAST WEST 20:24:12 yes 20:24:22 but how west 3 4 define the shape ? 20:24:29 it doesn't 20:24:34 you could define also 20:24:49 andr3n: a matrix + some matrix transformations that's all you need. 20:24:55 (define (boat-occupies-square? boat) 20:25:00 (case (car boat) 20:25:08 (T-BOAT (if ... ... 20:25:12 this sort of thing 20:25:43 andr3n, I wonder if my approach makes sense, You have a concise representation of each kind of boat -- then small functions that operate on any kind of boat at all 20:26:21 yes vixey, I'm understanding your idea 20:26:21 for example (CELLS (T-BOAT WEST 3 4)) ~> ((3 . 4) (3 . 5) ...) 20:26:26 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:26:37 but (CELLS (LONGBOAT NORTH ...)) can also work 20:27:36 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit ["going home."] 20:27:43 dudrenov I didn't understand how to use those matrix transformation 20:27:49 can you give me an example please ? 20:29:04 andr3n: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_multiplication 20:29:28 dudrenov, that sounds like bad advice 20:29:37 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:31:03 I think I can do it like vixey told me 20:31:05 I'm at work right now and I don't have time, but the ships should be represented as matrices of vectors. 20:31:10 ExcelsisD [i=email@89.180.225.89] has joined #scheme 20:31:37 dudrenov: dunno but just linking to wiki usually means 'this idea sucks' 20:31:55 lol 20:32:06 dudrenov: I don't have to go to university and study matrix theory for years to rotate a square 90 degrees 20:32:35 dudrenov: there's a cool shearing algorithm to do it in place though, wouldn't have come up with that myself 20:32:52 Yet you study scheme. 20:32:59 Plus matrices are not that difficult. 20:33:06 dudrenov, oops I forgot Scheme was for academics only 20:33:34 I did not mean it that way. 20:33:35 afk 20:33:43 here in portugal I have a degree only about scheme.. lol 20:34:27 andr3n, wish they did scheme near me, but CS in the UK is more about how hard you can hit yourself on the head with a frying pan 20:34:56 lol 20:35:07 well, I'll try to apply the ideas that you gave me 20:35:15 good luck 20:35:33 I need to finish the game until next week 20:36:13 I'll be here again if I have any question 20:36:24 I wanna thank you all for you help and ideas ;) 20:37:33 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:43:02 samth [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 20:43:19 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 20:43:47 anybody knowing of an R6RS parser that's implemented in straightforward R5RS or R6RS Scheme? 20:44:19 (having some way to retain comments would be a boon) 20:44:33 I don't know rotty, I think Ikarus does but not certain 20:44:38 rotty: I think larceny has one 20:45:24 yeah, I'll look at the R6RS impls and pick the parser that fits me most 20:46:45 samth: since you mention larceny: is it possible to use R5RS libraries from R6RS? the last time I tried, I failed miserably (that's the reason why I don't port my stuff to Larceny ATM) 20:47:05 i don't know much about larceny 20:48:12 rotty, I'm curious why you'd wanna use R6RS though 20:48:20 just because it's new or ? 20:49:49 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.161.255] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:50:04 vixey: it makes writing portable libraries a lot easier 20:50:30 and 'portable libraries' are a good thing? 20:50:42 vixey: they aren't? 20:51:01 I can't really see why, I only care that this library works on the one scheme implementation I'm about to use 20:51:53 vixey: and someone else wants that library to work with the scheme implementation of her choice... 20:52:10 (which might well be a different one) 20:54:09 vixey: for instance, I'm doing a binding for GTK+. Using R6RS features (foremost libraries and syntax-case) makes it easier for me to target multiple implementations (ATM I'm doing Ikarus and mzscheme, and ypsilon will follow soon, probably) 20:55:18 but there isn't really a reason to target multiple implementations other than "it's better because it works on MORE implementations"? 20:56:05 vixey: more implementations means larger potential userbase, for example 20:56:40 and users are more free to move betweeen implementations, which is a good thing, IMO 20:56:42 "more implementations" may also give "more versions of the implementation of choice" 20:56:58 R6RS specifies a C FFI? 20:56:59 vixey: libraries are the _only_ things that (imho) ought to be written portably. 20:57:39 vixey: I implemented one that's close to the one of Ikarus, and ported it to mzscheme and ypsilon 20:57:41 no FFI in R6RS. 20:58:03 rotty, I see 20:58:22 rotty, I'm not sure what about R6RS makes that easier 20:58:26 than R5RS 20:58:32 vixey: but the thing is, you have one library providing the same FFI/API across multiple implementations 20:59:26 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:59:27 I like the introduction of libraries in R6RS 20:59:38 vixey: it doesn't make writing a portable ffi easier, but it relieves you from the fact of having to, either: 20:59:48 your FFI should be hidden within the library anyway. 20:59:49 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:59:57 dudrenov, agreed the one omission of R5RS is no module system, but that's the only one :/ 20:59:58 a 21:00:10 1) maintain multiple versions of the library dependencies and exports 21:00:11 or 21:00:39 2) write a translator from a common "module language" to the different implementation's module systems 21:02:05 vixey: yeah, that's what I was saying. And having a more powerful macros system also helps. 21:02:28 (although I'm not really a fan of syntax-case) 21:03:36 mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-150-24-176.aby.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 21:04:05 -!- mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:05:32 offby1: I tend to try to code my programs in ways that minimize non-library-level code (i.e. try to build reusable libraries in the process of writing a program), hence libraries are what I worry about most ;-) 21:06:30 rotty: we need more like you 21:07:45 *rotty* bows 21:09:32 *rotty* goes studying the parsers of ikarus & co 21:15:50 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:15:52 moghar` [n=user@157.185.jawnet.pl] has joined #scheme 21:16:14 whew, ypsilon's reader is done in C++ 21:16:24 *shrug* 21:16:38 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:16:41 -!- moghar` is now known as moghar 21:17:46 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:17:46 -!- alp2 [n=alp2@host76-219-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:17:46 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:17:46 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable027.191-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:17:47 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:17:47 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-217-174.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:17:47 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:17:47 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:18:24 "Surf cat Hassaku" ! 21:19:08 Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-217-174.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:19:18 bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable027.191-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:21:53 alp2 [n=alp2@host76-219-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 21:22:09 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:22:13 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:24:30 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@66-154.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:24:52 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 21:26:38 mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 21:30:07 jimi_hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #scheme 21:30:18 is there a way to make an irc bot in scheme 21:30:26 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 21:30:31 also whats the best non-mit scheme tutorial around? 21:30:52 are scheme exceptions cheap? i.e. can i write my code w/o checking for errors & just catching them *& handling them, or will that be bad performance and I should sprinkle my code with a bunch of if's 21:31:05 hendrix, SICP 21:31:12 hendrix, it transcends MIT 21:31:25 -!- mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-150-24-176.aby.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:31:31 hml, scheme exceptions? I dont' know what you mean 21:31:41 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 21:31:43 hml, some kind of CWCC thing? 21:32:52 -!- rudybot [n=luser@li11-10.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:34:56 jimi_hendrix: let's ask rudybot_ your first question 21:34:59 rudybot_: source 21:34:59 offby1: http://github.com/offby1/rudybot 21:35:02 rudybot_: eval (banner) 21:35:02 offby1: ; Value: "Welcome to MzScheme v4.1.3.6 [3m], Copyright (c) 2004-2008 PLT Scheme Inc.\n" 21:35:13 jimi_hendrix: I guess not. And you're holding your guitar upside-down, by the way. 21:35:25 vixey: chicken's condition-case, hmm, i should probably check in #chicken 21:35:33 hml: I was just wondering exactly that (about exceptions) this morning 21:36:03 who minds that write buggy code thinkgs alike 21:36:03 tutorial on how to make one? 21:36:07 s/who/wow 21:37:00 hml, never heard of condition-case, how's it implemented? 21:37:12 X-Scale [i=email@89-180-182-221.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 21:37:20 jimi_hendrix: I don't know of any tutorial. But rudybot_'s code is _reasonably_ simple 21:37:25 if I do say so myself. 21:37:33 ok 21:37:44 dynamic-wind 21:37:55 at the moment it requires a not-yet-released version of PLT scheme 21:38:36 ... but I suspect that's only because of one fairly minor feature 21:39:38 hml: the definitive authority on these matters is the source itself 21:39:47 offby1, what feature 21:39:55 *jimi_hendrix* is only semifulent in scheme 21:40:16 due to lack of non-writen for MIT student tutorials 21:40:26 have you ever tried to use IRC from telnet or nc though, Hendrix? 21:40:52 no 21:41:01 ive never used telenet and dont know what nc is 21:41:09 well 21:41:15 jimi_hendrix: the feature has to do with "sandboxes", which are areas in which it does evaluation like this: 21:41:21 rudybot_: eval (+ 2 3) 21:41:21 offby1: ; Value: 5 21:41:23 you should have some kind of IRC library in Scheme, or try to do that 21:41:42 jimi_hendrix: it recycles those sandboxes in certain circumstances. That recycling is what wouldn't work. 21:41:43 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:41:56 vixey: yeah :) 21:42:20 rudybot_: eval (define x (lambda x (x*x)) 21:42:38 rudybot_: eval (x 5) 21:42:44 jimi_hendrix: error: with-limit: out of time 21:42:52 ? 21:43:04 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:43:11 jimi_hendrix: error: reference to undefined identifier: x 21:43:38 jimi_hendrix: I think that's a bug :) 21:43:45 cads [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:43:47 either that or your code loops. 21:44:18 hmm 21:44:22 rudybot_, (begin (define x (lambda x (*x x))) (x 5)) 21:44:25 dang 21:44:27 you left off a closing ), and yet it didn't complain 21:44:37 Did it time out trying to read the expression, offby1? 21:44:40 rudybot_: eval (+ 1 21:44:44 Riastradh: error: eval:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 21:44:44 Riastradh: I don't think so ... 21:44:47 rudybot_, (begin (define x (lambda x (* x x))) (x 5)) 21:44:57 I don't know _what_ is going on. 21:45:14 it might have been loading some code to report the error ... it's timed out during loading before. 21:45:26 rudybot_: eval (define x (lambda x (x*x)) 21:45:26 offby1: error: eval:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 21:45:28 yep 21:45:31 pretty sure that's it 21:45:41 plus I'm doing a buncha stuff on that box at the moment, which will slow it down more 21:45:56 rudybot_, (begin (define x (lambda x (* x x))) (x 5)) 21:46:04 don't forget to say "eval" 21:46:16 rudybot_, eval (begin (define x (lambda x (* x x))) (x 5)) 21:46:17 jimi_hendrix: error: *: expects type as 1st argument, given: (5); other arguments were: (5) 21:46:19 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@66-154.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:46:28 uhh 21:46:30 rudybot_, eval (begin (define (x) (lambda x (* x x))) (x 5)) 21:46:31 offby1: error: procedure x: expects no arguments, given 1: 5 21:46:36 im a little rusty but that looks right 21:46:40 rudybot_, eval (begin (define x (lambda (x) (* x x))) (x 5)) 21:46:41 offby1: ; Value: 25 21:46:43 *whew* 21:46:50 omitted parens. Do you see it? 21:50:22 mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 21:53:22 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@66-154.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:55:00 rudybot_, eval (define  lambda) 21:55:39 proq: error: with-limit: out of time 21:55:54 proq, seriously ? lol 21:56:11 vixey: no :) 21:56:39 -!- ExcelsisD [i=email@89.180.225.89] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:58:02 G-Brain [n=G-Brain@ip4da02711.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #scheme 21:58:46 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@66-154.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:59:46 Why the out of time error? 21:59:59 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-133-89.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:00:15 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@66-154.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:00:32 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-133-89.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:00:38 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:02:35 -!- pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 22:05:42 window 10 22:06:19 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A06BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:08:26 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:09:13 -!- jimi_hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:10:09 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@66-154.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [] 22:17:47 ExcelsisD [i=email@89-180-199-252.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 22:23:46 -!- rudybot_ [n=luser@li11-10.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:24:37 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [] 22:25:20 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:26:00 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["He rode off into the sunset. . ."] 22:31:18 zbigniew: not sure, but I think if it needs to compile something on-demand, that time gets charged to the "eval" 22:31:37 I'm messing with the infrastructure now so all hell may break loose 22:31:52 rudybot [n=luser@li11-10.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 22:31:57 rudybot: eval (define  lambda) 22:31:58 offby1: error: eval:1:10: lambda: bad syntax in: lambda 22:32:07 well, picky picky 22:32:26 rudybot_, eval (define  lambda) 22:32:31 rudybot: eval (define x ( (y) (* x x))) 22:32:36 rudybot: eval (x 3) 22:32:36 offby1: error: *: expects type as 1st argument, given: #; other arguments were: # 22:32:44 rudybot: eval (define x ( (y) (* y y))) 22:32:45 rudybot: eval (x 3) 22:32:46 offby1: ; Value: 9 22:32:53 I think  is built in anyway. 22:33:04 rudybot: eval  22:33:04 offby1: error: eval:1:0: : bad syntax in:  22:33:11 rudybot: eval  22:33:11 offby1: error: reference to undefined identifier:  22:34:32 What was is that the lambda was supposed to be? A hat or something, wasn't it? 22:34:40 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 22:34:59 And the printer typeset it as a lambda by mistake. 22:37:20 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89-180-182-221.net.novis.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:38:15 *offby1* stares blankly 22:39:52 *dsmith* can't remember where he heard/read that 22:39:56 -!- incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Success] 22:41:45 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:41:45 O_o 22:41:57 you guys 22:42:03 LAMBDA is syntax 22:42:08 not a procedure 22:42:13 you can't DEFINE it 22:45:01 incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:45:21 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.160.171] has joined #scheme 22:46:35 yes ma'am 22:47:34 mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-6-100-103.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 22:47:35 rudybot: eval (define lambda 3) 22:47:41 stop it 22:47:45 rudybot: eval lambda 22:47:46 zbigniew: ; Value: 3 22:47:49 >< 22:47:55 how could you 22:48:01 uh-oh i just defined lambda world ends 22:48:14 *vixey* and I tried to tell them 22:49:57 vixey: you and yourself tried to tell them? :D 22:50:03 offby1, time to call the /me police! 22:50:09 oh no 22:50:30 I assumed it was the royal we, or the Jamaican 'I and I' 22:50:39 mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 22:52:51 *gasp* 22:53:05 vixey: I'm very disappointed in you. I'll write to you in prison. 22:53:55 :( 22:54:54 vixey: don't forget to send offby1 the address of your cons cell 22:55:36 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:55:40 *vixey* CAR 22:55:49 X-Scale [i=email@89.181.46.147] has joined #scheme 22:55:50 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-56-88-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 22:56:26 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has quit [] 22:56:53 vixey: http://www.stupi.se/cgi-bin/kaka?year=2008;dir=20081019;file=dscf0629.jpg 22:56:54 *offby1* slaps zbigniew upside the haid 22:56:55 a recidivist! 22:56:59 gotta respect that 22:58:15 mejja: the site is not responding, but I really enjoyed the dir= and file= CGI parameters 22:59:40 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.160.171] has quit [] 23:01:45 zbigniew: it's just a photo of a car whose license plate reads "CAR". 23:02:34 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DD152.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:02:54 -!- mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:03:02 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:03:17 mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 23:04:19 not 'KARR'? 23:04:36 greyface [n=greyface@246-207.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #scheme 23:04:51 nossir 23:05:14 hey, can anyone advice me on whether I should learn scheme or lisp? 23:05:21 i mean, clisp 23:05:56 *zbigniew* checks the channel name 23:06:30 -!- tessier_ [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has left #scheme 23:06:34 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:06:38 -!- mbishop_ is now known as mbishop 23:06:43 *mejja* recommends soap and water 23:06:52 greyface, Nah, you should learn perl. Then scheme will make you weep at the beauty of it. 23:07:03 greyface, both 23:07:12 greyface, also clisp isn't a language 23:07:27 -!- mbishop__ [n=martin@adsl-6-100-103.msy.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:07:35 greyface, (don't abbreviate common lisp to clisp or you will make lots of people very angry) 23:07:39 greyface: since scheme is a lisp, yes and yes 23:07:42 lol 23:07:55 greyface: me too 23:08:08 well, which should I start with? 23:08:19 greyface: occam dictates scheme 23:08:21 I don't quite understand the practical difference between the two 23:08:44 all I know is that common lisp has a bigger library 23:08:51 dsmith: no, probably ruby. perl at least behaves correctly with respect to closures 23:09:30 greyface, flip a coin, doesn't matter what you start with 23:09:38 heheh 23:09:41 greyface, just as long as you use both eventually 23:09:57 well why would you learn two similar languages? 23:10:11 greyface, (btw I started with the one my library had books about) 23:10:47 vixey: and you use both now? 23:10:54 I don't program 23:11:02 oh 23:11:03 she carps 23:11:17 -!- samth [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:11:41 collects freshwater fish of the family Cyprinidae? 23:11:48 uh, sue. 23:11:50 sure. 23:13:33 well, what if I only want to learn scheme or lisp, is any one of them more useful, faster to code with, or anything? 23:13:43 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 23:13:44 like, what are the practical differences? 23:13:50 greyface, if you only wanna learn I suggest that you don't learn either 23:14:01 greyface, if you only wanna learn *one* I suggest that you don't learn either 23:14:10 I want to learn to be able to program in one of them 23:14:14 lol 23:14:16 -!- ExcelsisD [i=email@89-180-199-252.net.novis.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:14:17 why is that? 23:14:17 offby1: http://3e8.org/gallery/albums/Fuji/IMG_0442.jpg 23:14:41 the only thing learning both will bring me is confusion 23:14:59 Vital303 [n=vital303@e181017149.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 23:15:23 greyface, I didn't mean _simultaneously_ 23:15:25 greyface: or enlightenment 23:15:52 well, I know I will end up prefering one to the other, I'm just trying to spare me learning both 23:17:11 greyface, ok you know my feeling on that 23:17:17 greyface, kinda silly me just repeating mysef 23:17:42 vixey, you could also give me your opinion on the main differences between them 23:18:07 greyface, It's a really terrible idea to take assumptions or things other people said instead over first hand experincee 23:18:22 first class lambda's 23:18:24 greyface: Lisp vs Scheme pretty much 23:18:28 scheme doesn't hijaack the reader 23:19:01 greyface: You would only understand after having used both 23:19:12 vixey, sometimes, yea. But sometimes the insight is useful too 23:19:26 hopefully you have a couple of spare years to shave off your life learning CL 23:19:27 greyface: it could be years though, I'm not saying learn them both at once 23:19:57 glogic, so you're saying scheme is less to learn? 23:19:59 *glogic* shuts up now 23:20:03 greyface, why don't you start with SICP 23:20:14 i started with the schemer series 23:20:18 then read SICP 23:21:12 hmm 23:21:33 I'm looking at SICP, I don't quite get what it's about 23:21:49 read the entire book then you may know 23:22:17 it's a programming book, not tied to any language? 23:22:25 It's about the structure and interpretation of computer programs. 23:22:26 that's a fair assesment 23:22:37 greyface: it teaches you to program first; scheme is a side-effect 23:22:44 a pleasant one, at that 23:23:03 k but I already know how to program in other languages 23:23:26 this is more general than that 23:23:28 It's a bit overly romantic about tail-recursion. 23:23:33 ok 23:23:34 greyface: right; but you're probably not prepared for how sussman and co will blow your mind 23:23:42 Reading SICP, and doing all the exercises, will make you better programmer for sure. 23:23:43 greyface: we all thought we could "program" 23:23:55 there are videos too if you have the patience for that kind of thing 23:24:00 I mean looping constructs aren't that bad, and they're equivalent theory-wise. 23:24:27 I liked the chapter on streams though. It was a neat generalization. :) 23:24:46 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-144.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:24:55 .oO("overly romantic about tail-recursion"?) 23:25:16 klutometis, ok I think I know what you mean 23:25:23 sounds interesting 23:25:31 klutometis: i still can't program 23:25:45 oh tail-call optimization, shall i compare thee to a summer's day 23:25:51 klutometis: but i no longer have any delusions about being able to 23:26:09 zbigniew: As a consequence, these languages can describe iterative processes only by resorting to special-purpose ``looping constructs'' such as do, repeat, until, for, and while. The implementation of Scheme we shall consider in chapter 5 does not share this defect. 23:26:12 thou art more space-efficient, and save more stack 23:26:21 zbigniew: by odd coincidence, I was just at your gallery a few minutes before you posted that URL, and left some grafitti 23:26:29 emo lisp? 23:26:31 It's not unbiased, you have to admit. 23:27:25 i thought that i shall never see / a poem lovely as a tree / until i encountered tail recursion 23:27:43 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:27:58 offby1: that's funny, because i just noticed Janet Jackson left a reply as well 23:29:32 mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 23:31:52 I kind of prefer a compile/execute dichotomy instead of eval/apply. Never really understood what's so special about apply... 23:32:09 synx: O_O 23:33:01 It lets you call a procedure with a list of arguments. Kind of helpful... I guess? 23:33:37 You could just write the procedure to take the list as an argument and expand it. Wouldn't be as pretty though. 23:34:33 *offby1* stares blankly 23:35:28 wait what's that, crickets I hear? 23:35:51 *offby1* watches the tumbleweeds skitter down Main St 23:36:10 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:39:04 -!- rudybot [n=luser@li11-10.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:39:09 rudybot [n=luser@li11-10.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 23:39:20 rudybot: source 23:39:20 offby1: http://github.com/offby1/rudybot/tree/8ec331ce82720ed9739b2e952b7d597655592166 23:39:35 mua ha ha 23:41:49 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 23:41:51 sweet 23:44:23 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 23:44:37 really lambda seems like the thing to pair with apply. You use lambda to form a procedure, and you use apply to apply arguments and call it. eval does both of those things as well as top level forms. 23:45:55 I pair lambda with some fava beans and a nice Chianti 23:46:02 ok, strictly speaking that's a triplet. 23:50:35 ew 23:53:42 does anyone know a site with scheme source codes ? 23:53:56 andr3n, of? 23:54:08 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:55:15 andr3n: koder.com 23:55:25 *koders 23:55:31 things like games and programms 23:55:51 andr3n, you could look at the PLT source code 23:56:32 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["There exists an infinite set!"] 23:56:45 ok =) 23:56:45 ty 23:57:38 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 23:57:58 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]