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are there standard libraries that fix this? 02:16:16 No. 02:23:05 excuse me but your answer is ambiguous 02:23:12 he asked two questions 02:23:54 thank you e1f 02:26:46 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 02:27:46 i would appreciate two answers 02:36:37 *yawn* 02:36:56 *foof* peers blearily around the channel 02:40:48 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@pool-70-111-163-83.nwrk.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:43:20 http://berlinbrowndev.blogspot.com/2008/12/simple-lisp-interpreters-in-c-java-and.html 02:43:51 Just look at the definition of Object_struct, eww :( 03:08:06 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-4-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 03:13:00 inertia-, which functions are you talking about? 03:13:18 most list processing functions (map, foldl, etc) dont care what the elements of the list are 03:17:19 I think he means that e.g. length isn't the same as vector-length or string-length, that is, there is no abstract `sequence' type 03:18:09 yes 03:18:19 (p1dzkl is correct) 03:18:39 i want to prototype using lists but easily convert everything i can to vectors later 03:26:14 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-20-239.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:32:22 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 03:42:34 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 03:53:22 krat3r [n=krat@bl4-204-37.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 03:57:25 -!- isomer`` is now known as isomer 04:01:44 elmex_ [n=elmex@e180069254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:09:27 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:10:28 dum de dum 04:17:27 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180066144.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:17:31 -!- elmex_ is now known as elmex 04:27:44 dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:31:02 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:36:08 is there any way to specify the equivalence predicate for CASE? it seems to be hard-coded to EQV? 04:36:53 It is hard-coded to EQV?. 04:37:58 It's specified to be EQV?. 04:40:11 That would have been a nice thing to "fix" in R(5++)RS, in my opinion; or is there a good reason for EQV? 04:40:49 I think it should have been EQUAL?. 04:41:38 I would have loved to be able to specify it as e.g. an optional parameter. 04:42:32 No wonder I never see CASE but in specific instances (like dispatch on symbol). 04:43:11 *Riastradh* shrugs. 04:45:42 Maybe I can just write the damn macro, then; though I'm surprised no one came out with a "new-and-improved-CASE" SRFI: not even the illustrious Joo ChurlSoo. 04:45:43 Well, there's no good place to specify the equality function. But I really can't think of a single reason not to have used EQUAL? from the beginning. 04:46:01 foof: premature optimization? 04:47:24 Yeah... if your compiler doesn't do any optimizations, and doesn't have a low-level macro facility, case statements can be pretty slow. 04:48:14 ... well, with syntax-rules you could still optimize the symbol case. 04:50:23 `Optimize'? 04:50:42 Use EQ? instead of EQUAL?. 04:52:20 glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has joined #scheme 04:53:14 If that is actually going to matter, then there is something more serious wrong than can be fixed with SYNTAX-RULES. 04:54:14 What, the fact that by assumption the compiler does no optimizations whatsoever? 04:57:36 annodomini [n=lambda@pool-141-154-217-174.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:03:41 is plt scheme the most popularly-deployed scheme? 05:04:16 doubt anyone keeps track of that sort of thing 05:08:02 I'd say `generates terrible code' or `is naive', rather than `does no optimizations', but yes, foof. 05:10:45 Well, generally the difference between EQ? and EQUAL? will be the difference between a pointer comparison and function call. To specifically notice that you're comparing to a constant value for which EQ? can be safely substituted for EQUAL? requires an optimization pass. 05:11:22 ... well, not necessarily a separate pass, that's simple enough to do on the fly... 05:11:43 One could just as well expand (EQUAL? x y) to (OR (EQ? x y) (GENERIC-EQUAL? x y)). 05:13:04 Which will still make a full function call for every literal in the case statement until the correct one is found, unless you do type inference to determine that the GENERIC-EQUAL? will always fail if EQ? fails. 05:13:54 underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:14:07 Sorry, you're right. It does take some work to improve a sequence of EQUAL? tests. 05:27:42 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176210046.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:49 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176203120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:34:53 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:47:29 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:48:08 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 05:51:50 btw0 [n=btw0@mail.madk.org] has joined #scheme 06:04:07 annodomini [n=lambda@pool-141-154-217-174.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:10:29 glogi1 [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has joined #scheme 06:10:30 -!- glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 06:21:36 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:24:50 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-23-60.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:28:04 klutometis: there's already the generalised-case egg for Chicken 06:33:36 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:45:33 -!- btw0 [n=btw0@mail.madk.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:55:17 -!- glogi1 [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:13:45 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 07:16:23 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:16:52 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 07:21:45 glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has joined #scheme 07:43:15 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-28-244.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 08:03:43 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-29-223.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 08:13:39 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-4-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:27:34 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-28-244.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:30:40 zbigniew: hey, fantastic; and by my main man p. bex, too 08:37:02 sjamaan: enjoyed your SXSLT tute, by the way 08:37:05 ejs [n=eugen@92.49.238.75] has joined #scheme 08:39:47 -!- Deformative [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:41:42 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:58:10 -!- glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:03:39 charmless [n=charmles@64-110-209-189.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has joined #scheme 09:03:52 -!- charmless [n=charmles@64-110-209-189.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has left #scheme 09:09:03 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92.49.238.75] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:41:47 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 09:53:01 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Operation timed out] 09:55:26 -!- jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has quit ["off to work."] 10:03:39 xwl [n=user@125.33.196.195] has joined #scheme 10:07:12 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:11:00 inertia-: You can use "generic" functions with some object systems, like GOOPS (which comes with Guile). No comments on other Scheme implementations though. 10:11:30 inertia-: So in the example above, you can make a generic function called, say, generic-length, and make it call vector-length, length, string-length, etc. depending on the incoming type. 10:11:57 *cky* is 8 hours late to the party, it seems. 10:20:16 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 10:20:42 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@68.73.100.241] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:26:10 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 10:28:56 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #scheme 10:30:15 cky: thanks 10:30:57 -!- Raynes [i=kvirc@ACA224B1.ipt.aol.com] has left #scheme 10:35:19 Hi all. How can I use 'define-macro' (i.e. should I import something) when compiling with plt-r6rs? 10:37:33 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [No route to host] 10:37:41 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:38:22 In fact I'm trying to find out, how r6rs scheme should behave, when a function, defined in the same top-level program is used to 'produce' macro expansion 10:39:10 There is a sample of a unhygienic expander in the R6RS spec 10:39:37 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-32-80.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 10:40:06 lisppaste: url 10:40:08 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 10:40:49 leppie pasted "R6RS define-macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72729 10:42:31 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #scheme 10:43:34 thnx 10:44:40 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-25-153.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 10:47:39 cky: /window 1 10:47:40 er 10:53:05 incubot: the kid spilled milk on my macbook, rendering left shift inoperable; remapping my neurons to use right shift exclusively has proved painful 10:53:07 compare forcing some loop temporary to be spilled into memory, due to the lost register, to adding a single extra instruction in the loop's header to load the () bit pattern. 10:54:02 sounds about right :) 10:54:07 a remarkable commentary on neuro-remapping 10:55:29 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-29-223.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:55:43 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-161-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 11:01:38 mirakel [n=mikael@c-7642e353.027-10-67766c2.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 11:08:47 Should I import something to use 'syntax-case' when using plt-r6rs? 'syntax-rules' works fine, but 'syntax-case' complains about its 'lambda'. 11:09:06 barney [n=bernhard@p549A269F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 11:11:21 (import (rnrs)) should be ok 11:11:30 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-26-137.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 11:11:46 Yes, thanks 11:12:06 Forgot about rnrs, imported only rnrs base 11:12:16 hehe :) 11:12:24 r6rs seems a kind of hell after r5rs 11:18:27 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:22:07 Though, plt-r5rs also complains about lambda. I guess, I need to '(require' something? 11:22:24 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:26:54 no idea there :p 11:27:41 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-25-153.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:27:47 I was just curious 11:28:13 In fact I was trying to find out, how r6rs scheme should behave, when a function, defined in the same top-level program is used to 'produce' macro expansion 11:29:22 Im I rigth that a fuction, used to 'produce' the expansion should be defined in a separate library? 11:29:30 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-32-80.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:29:59 s/Im/Am 11:37:40 btw0 [n=user@mail.madk.org] has joined #scheme 11:39:00 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:42:02 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 11:44:26 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0090.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:52:00 yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:53:04 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:54:33 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 11:56:29 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 12:00:20 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:07:26 ejs [n=eugen@92.49.239.228] has joined #scheme 12:08:54 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #scheme 12:11:02 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:11:08 -!- xwl [n=user@125.33.196.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:13:00 choas [n=lars@p5B0DDF9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:14:49 drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 12:28:37 ejs1 [n=eugen@77-109-31-171.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 12:29:30 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:31:42 underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:34:30 -!- gnomon_ [n=ben@216.40.38.232] has quit ["leaving"] 12:35:09 -!- drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:36:12 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92.49.239.228] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:40:53 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:47:53 ttmrichter_ [n=ttmricht@59.174.134.54] has joined #scheme 12:54:28 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.48.197.180] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:54:44 exexex [n=chatzill@85.96.236.128] has joined #scheme 13:00:26 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 13:02:45 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:02:47 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0546D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:04:26 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 13:09:27 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE241.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:13:20 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:13:28 -!- e1f [n=user@141.117.1.131] has left #scheme 13:16:56 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77-109-31-171.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:26:28 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-10.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 13:28:37 ejs [n=eugen@92.49.236.6] has joined #scheme 13:35:12 -!- btw0 [n=user@mail.madk.org] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 13:39:15 la la la 13:40:35 klutometis: thanks :) 13:40:54 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0546D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:47:58 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:48:41 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:48:49 DUM de dum 13:49:08 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 13:49:29 Aaaaah: panettone and coffee sua da. Could there be a better Sunday breakfast? 13:49:30 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 13:54:26 Kakurady [i=nekomimi@CPE001c23928657-CM00159a3b7392.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 13:55:52 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:00:43 gnomon: get your own brain: I just bought four cans of sweetened condensed milk at CostCo, for making my own café sua da. 14:00:54 (Although I haven't been pouring it over ice lately, since it's already plenty cold out) 14:01:05 I've been skipping the ice too. 14:01:17 Makes for a lovely morning. 14:01:31 ...er. A lovely morning drink. 14:01:58 "Chocolate Milk for Grownups", I always say. 14:02:12 Tru dat, homeslice. 14:02:31 .oO("homeslice"?) 14:02:41 Are there any strong opinions about maildir vs. mbox message storage format in here? 14:02:55 *offby1* watches the tumbleweeds skitter down Main St 14:03:20 *gnomon* waits for someone to wail "won't somebody think of the INODES?!" 14:03:28 really big files are annoying. Directories full of lots of little files are annoying. 14:03:33 OK, I just did :) 14:03:42 Heh. 14:03:47 email is annoying. 14:03:53 Truly. 14:04:22 I have people to handle it for me. 14:06:05 The reason I ask is that I've been getting quite into NNTP lately (spent a few days evaluating several console clients and ended up settling on slrn, probably because of how enamoured I am with mutt) and have been idly looking around for a decent weblogging platform to start using again. Decklin Foster's mnemosyne package uses a maildir as its backing store, which I like; but it's written in Python, which I dislike. 14:06:29 *offby1* shrugs 14:06:53 The whole package is only a few kilobytes of code, which I quite appreciate, and it's very remniscent of Blosxom, which I used to help maintain and support. 14:07:04 I don't see the connection between your choice of newsreader, and your choice of blogging software 14:07:21 Well, ideally, they'd all be one piece of software. 14:07:41 If mutt had decent NNTP native support, I could drop slrn and be quite happy. 14:08:03 I tried a leafnode+mutt+patches setup for a little while, but it was just too fragile. 14:08:47 Anywhoop, I'm looking for a weblog setup that's as close to email as it possibly can be. 14:10:32 like sending an emial to blog provider -> published ? 14:10:41 leppie, like, but not quite. 14:11:54 aren't you supposed to, like, write your own in Scheme? 14:11:58 isn't that why we're here? 14:11:59 leppie, email already includes a superset of the features that most weblog tools provide: threaded comments via the message-id and in-reply-to headers; date, time and optionally crypto-signed comments; attachments; arbitrarily extensible metadata via X- headers... 14:12:03 to propose insane projects? 14:12:10 offby1, that's exactly what I'm doing :) 14:12:16 heh 14:12:21 That's why I'm raising the topic for discussion. 14:12:24 and here I thought I was being slyly satirical 14:12:35 ...though doing so at a quarter past nine on a Sunday morning may be a little overly optimistic ;) 14:13:01 (cut me some slack, I haven't had any of that coffee yet!) 14:13:07 gnomon: http://www.rants.org/2008/03/06/thread_theory/ 14:13:26 An essay that should be widely read 14:13:33 Hoo boy - with a topic like that, what could possible go wrong? 14:14:03 Har. 14:14:25 I'm a big fan of Karl Fogel 14:14:33 I got into a three-hour discussion on exactly this topic last night with a good friend, over leftover Christmas food, a good glass of wine and a bunch of World of Goo. 14:14:43 although he apparently hasn't yet managed to escape the claws of Gnus 14:14:57 .oO("World ... of ... what now?") 14:15:45 Huh, curious - Fogel has a "brought to you by red-bean.com" banner on his site, and Decklin's site is also hosted on red-bean.com. How coincidental. 14:16:02 offby1, you haven't yet seen or played World of Goo? Gracious me. I think you may have a treat in store. 14:16:32 *offby1* ain't no gamer 14:16:41 gnomon: next you'll be looking at ikiwiki. 14:16:43 You needn't be to enjoy that one. 14:16:45 *offby1* whistles innocently 14:16:56 also, you just said "gracious me". 14:17:01 Oh, blast it, why do you do these things? 14:17:07 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #scheme 14:17:17 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92.49.236.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:17:44 I keep you young. 14:18:01 Hah! 14:18:07 surely that game's name is properly spelled "World O' Goo", with an apostrophe 14:18:11 Formaldehyde keeps me well preserved. 14:18:14 Letterman-style 14:20:25 I think red-bean.com is just a buncha friends who got a domain and some boxes 14:22:02 That would certainly explain the convergent interests. 14:22:27 That was a good article, by the way. Thanks for the tip. I'll have to wget the site and start at the beginning. 14:22:29 buncha old FSF types in the lists of red-bean people. 14:22:41 it's just a single page! 14:22:58 or do you mean "I liked that article so much I will now read everything Karl Fogel has written"? 14:23:05 That's what I tend to do. 14:23:08 golly 14:23:17 next thing you know you'll be switching to Subversion 14:23:58 Unlikely! I briefly flirted with it when I was seriously looking into binary diffing tools (the subversion folks have a neat bunch of xdelta patches), but I generally dislike it. 14:24:05 I'll probably end up using git. 14:24:46 I was Subversion Fan #1 for a long time, but eventually grew very dissatisfied, and am now a git fanboi 14:25:14 I was only half-joking about ikiwiki -- it's possible it'd be a decent blogging platform. Have you heard of it? 14:25:27 google for it if not 14:25:37 I haven't, but I'm reading through the pages now and I've got the source pulled up in another tab. 14:25:40 I like the idea! 14:26:08 thot you might 14:26:51 Hm, there are only seven pages of full content on Fogel's site, going back to 2006. That ought to fit nicely on my N800 for bus reading today. 14:27:23 (I'm heading back to O-town to spend a couple of holi-days with the broodmates) 14:28:46 seems everyone I know has escaped O-town for T-ville by now 14:29:03 where |everyone| == 2 but still. 14:29:37 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176203120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:29:39 Heh. It's not really an escape, I think; much as I enjoy smokedot, the urban sprawl can get to be a bit monotonous. Ottawa is a beautiful city, and I do miss it. 14:29:54 I miss its lack of decent employment opportunity somewhat less, mind you. 14:30:00 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176197106.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 14:30:25 . . . 14:30:29 "smokedot" ? 14:30:39 do I gotta figure out the etymology myself? 14:30:57 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:31:18 Just one of the large set of dismissive nicknames Toronto has earned. 14:31:22 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 14:31:47 but ... why? 14:31:57 "smoky" I can guess, but ... "dot" ? 14:32:07 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-224-50.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 14:32:27 Possibly because Toronto is often referred to as "The Big Smoke" and "t-dot", and "smokedot" is a portmanteau? 14:32:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Toronto#Nicknames 14:34:03 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit [Client Quit] 14:34:26 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 14:35:47 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.96.236.128] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:40:49 *offby1* is enlightened 14:47:00 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 14:55:07 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 14:57:56 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-224-50.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:02:28 Mr-Cat [n=chatzill@78-106-161-81.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 15:04:42 But Ottawa with bus drivers on strike could be a bit of problem... 15:06:23 Hi, I will be having a course that will probably teach Scheme (and Prolog) next semester and I was wondering what kind of implementation would suit me (or first get myself wet with TinyScheme embedded in GIMP) for a bit. 15:07:57 Mr-Cat_ [n=chatzill@78-106-161-81.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 15:07:58 -!- Mr-Cat [n=chatzill@78-106-161-81.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:07:59 -!- Mr-Cat_ is now known as Mr-Cat 15:08:27 I'd see which one the course will be using. 15:08:27 Kakurady, don't trust the Scheme that you learn by experimenting with TinyScheme. It's small and broken and will lead you astray. 15:08:56 Probably the one that the author wrote: http://www.scheme.com/chezscheme.html 15:09:42 there's your answer, then 15:10:29 Non-free software? 15:10:44 Why not? )) 15:11:01 BTW, only the compiler is non-free 15:11:13 /tag Mr-Cat troll 15:11:32 Not really trolling, just uninformed. 15:11:49 gnomon: As you wish )) 15:12:21 Invoking The Princess Bride won't save you! Have at thee! 15:13:22 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:16:50 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 15:19:06 Mr-Cat: psst -- gnomon isn't left-handed 15:19:45 Hush! 15:20:28 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 15:30:06 G-Brain [n=G-Brain@ip4da02711.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #scheme 15:39:42 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 15:39:57 How can I use 'syntax-case' when using plt-r5rs? The interpreter complains about lambda after '(define-syntax'. Should I '(require' something? 15:43:14 probably :-| 15:43:15 dunno what though 15:43:19 I never use plt-r5rs 15:43:39 gnomon: in case you haven't discovered this for yourself: the docs for ikiwiki are a little spotty :-| 15:46:52 exexex [n=chatzill@85.96.236.128] has joined #scheme 15:47:10 syntax-case isn't a SRFI is it? 15:47:35 dunno 15:47:38 vixey: I think it is. 15:47:46 @ Mr-Cat 15:47:51 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-93/ 15:48:00 It was retracted because of r6rs. 15:48:18 @vixey 15:48:27 r2q2, that's annoying 15:48:34 @ hat 15:48:39 vixey: What is retracting srfi's? 15:48:44 Yeah, in r6rs you just (import (rnrs)) 15:48:52 r2q2, mirroring the structure of my phrases 15:48:54 r2q2: those are the kind that fold up for convenient transport and stowage 15:48:59 vixey: What do you mean? 15:49:03 vixey: I don't understand. 15:49:13 I mean: you're annoying me 15:49:14 vixey: I thought @person 15:49:18 vixey: Is a twitter thing not a you thing. 15:49:38 I figured he meant "oops, that last thing I said was intended for vixey" 15:49:44 vixey: So I am annoyed that you are bringing twitter on freenode. 15:49:57 Why Can't We All Just Get Along? 15:50:03 I have no fucking clue. 15:50:52 benny [n=benny@i577A19E1.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 15:51:01 offby1: Have you added anything to rudybot? 15:51:06 r2q2: thnx 15:51:18 r2q2: I've added lots of stuff. But since what time? 15:51:27 offby1: Last 3 months. 15:51:36 crap, he's dead 15:51:42 Mr-Cat, did you get syntax-case in R5RS now? 15:51:49 r2q2: source is on github 15:52:05 offby1: Oh I didn't know it was there. 15:52:12 offby1: I will follow you on github then. 15:52:59 rudybot [n=luser@li11-10.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 15:53:03 rudybot: source 15:53:06 offby1: http://github.com/offby1/rudybot 15:53:26 rudybot: I am so FORKING rudybot. 15:53:57 :) 15:54:00 my first fork! 15:54:02 very flattering 15:54:04 rudybot: version 15:54:04 offby1: b0296a3 15:54:07 vixey: I cannot check it now unfortunately. 15:54:22 Mr-Cat, because PLT doesn't have the SRFI r2q2 linked 15:54:46 vixey: Well yea its retracted. 15:54:58 vixey: Its a part of r6rs. 15:55:04 Mr-Cat: I know you can use #lang scheme/base(require (for-syntax scheme/base)) to get syntax-case but not sure how to augment R5RS with it yet 15:55:42 vixey: thnx 15:56:37 In fact I was just curious, whether syntax-case if available for plt-r5rs 15:57:30 *vixey* too 15:57:48 Mr-Cat: Kent Dybig has a package. 15:58:06 sam___ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 15:58:14 Mr-Cat: http://www.cs.indiana.edu/chezscheme/syntax-case/ 15:58:16 there's a definition (module stxcase '#%kernel ...) is /plt/collects/scheme/private/stxcase.ss 15:59:09 no clue how to import it though 16:01:36 Mr-Cat: Note that should be r5rs. I believe that is when it was written. 16:03:08 -!- rudybot [n=luser@li11-10.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:04:07 rudybot [n=luser@li11-10.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 16:04:16 ok, fixed that bug. 16:04:24 rudybot: version 16:04:24 offby1: 519dc2a 16:04:45 rudybot: eval #x519dc2a 16:04:46 vixey: ; Value: 85580842 16:04:56 Wow, very interesting version number system )) 16:05:01 so that's 85580842 revisions? you industrious bee 16:05:37 Mr-Cat: it's "git"; that's part of a SHA1 16:05:48 r2q2: so when I push, do you automatically get notified? 16:06:53 Mmm, never used git before 16:07:24 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:07:26 I used git a bit 16:07:31 aw, git out 16:07:42 it's exactly the same as every other RCS except I don't know what commands do what yet 16:08:24 (and I'm intensionally not learning them because that is when a new one gets put into use) 16:10:25 Mr-Cat, SYNTAX-CASE is not in the R5RS. Presumably, therefore, you cannot use it in `plt-r5rs'. 16:10:51 vixey: it's certainly not _exactly_ the same. It has a lot in common with some, and far less in common with some others. 16:11:16 ... or am I being too literal-minded? 16:11:21 offby1, yeah right, all the differences are the in HCI 16:11:35 the only bit that you the user has to re-learn every time 16:11:35 vixey: what other system has anything like git's "index"? 16:12:00 if I use the advanced features I wouldn't have anything to complain about :p 16:12:00 *offby1* awaits Riastradh to flame him for off-topic-ness 16:13:27 Mr-Cat: I like that version-numbering system. It doesn't even _try_ to do the things that other version-numbering systems try, and fail, to do. 16:13:49 (Like: tell you which of two versions is newer; tell you about the quality of a particular version ...) 16:14:00 What other system has Git's overbearing deluge of concepts and terminology flung at the meek reader who sought only to learn how to fetch, patch, and store repositories? Only arch comes near that, as far as I know. 16:14:23 well, those two are pretty bad, I'll grant that. 16:14:43 in git's case, though, I think it's mostly a failure of documentation; the software itself is _reasonably_ comprehensible. 16:14:52 I mean, _I_ understand it, and I'm only middling smart 16:15:32 Riastradh well put! 16:16:37 I recommend http://eagain.net/articles/git-for-computer-scientists/ to anyone who's baffled by all the terminology etc. 16:16:43 It helped me a lot 16:16:51 -!- ricky [n=ricky@fedora/ricky] has quit [No route to host] 16:19:44 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:24:22 offby1: WOW that does help alot. 16:24:34 offby1: This is like the explanation of the algebra of patches for darcs. 16:24:35 seriously? Great! 16:24:59 offby1: Yea seriously. I don't really understand how git works but I know what a graph is. 16:25:39 Well, for projects with small number of developers I'd prefer svn. 16:26:31 rudybot: eval (getenv "HOME") 16:26:31 offby1: ; Value: #f 16:26:34 yay 16:26:38 took me ages to fix that 16:27:04 not that it was _hard_, mind you; it just took me a long time to get around to it 16:32:20 offby1: You are a schemer and a scholar. 16:32:38 and an officer and a gentleman 16:32:57 And a floor topping and a dessert wax! 16:33:45 -!- sam___ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:35:27 you're one of those people-who-is-clearly-about-the-same-age-as-me 16:36:29 Hm - the article to which you linked up above isn't particularly well suited for display in elinks. 16:36:34 *gnomon* sighs and hauls up Firefox 16:37:56 damn, you're hard-code. Plain-text blog ... elinks ... 16:38:04 s/code/core/ 16:38:48 Hey I got the officer and a gentleman refrence and I am not as young as you. 16:38:49 golly, extensible with guile 16:39:07 r2q2: yeah, but that's somehow well-known. Also the movie's title was taken from a reasonably common phrase 16:39:21 *offby1* starts 16:39:29 "not as young" as me? I doubt that very much 16:39:29 I'm not really hardcore, to be truthful. I just spend most of my time interacting with my primary machine via ssh. 16:39:37 offby1: Yea I am younger. 16:39:39 ya, ditto 16:39:53 I think I come in second after jcowan in that contest 16:40:05 a _close_ second 16:40:09 Isn't Riastradh old as dirt or something? 16:40:15 well, he's ageless. 16:40:37 this is him: http://www.radioarchives.org/pictures/George%20Sanders.jpg 16:40:43 never mind the name in the URL; that's misleading 16:41:05 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 16:46:16 -!- Mr-Cat [n=chatzill@78-106-161-81.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 16:46:20 Couldn't be. I was under the impression that Riastradh never wears hats, and has lots more facial hare. 16:46:23 hair. Facial hair. 16:46:28 Holy schmoly, how did I do that? 16:49:05 gnomon: Riastradh is using his mind tricks on you. He will next make you eat a spider. 16:49:35 I am not Renfield! 16:55:26 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:55:43 note that that picture was taken sometime in the 40s or 50s. 16:56:14 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:56:38 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 17:01:50 -!- memento [n=elise@87.229.77.151] has left #scheme 17:04:43 Could be 60s as well. 17:07:45 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:10:21 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 17:10:24 -!- Kakurady [i=nekomimi@CPE001c23928657-CM00159a3b7392.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #scheme 17:15:01 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:20:40 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:28:41 -!- leppie 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21:16:45 Turns out the professor didn't use chez, but uses scm instead. 21:18:19 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 21:25:52 *shudder* 21:26:00 I think we've encountered this professor before 21:30:53 mreh [n=mrehayde@host86-156-67-242.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 21:30:54 Why shudder? 21:31:21 Can anyone suggest the best scheme interpreter to use with little schemer books? 21:31:40 I've tried drscheme but it's compilation and runtime errors aren't very expressive 21:31:43 sarahbot... 21:32:30 is she the scheme equiv. of lambdabot from #haskell? 21:32:45 no 21:32:53 sarahbot is an individual 21:33:37 she's a robot, she isn't self aware 21:35:02 is there anything simple, i dont want to have to install a bot 21:35:18 I wasn't suggesting sarahbot 21:36:02 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:36:03 Motoko_Kusanagi [n=Motoko@71-14-81-211.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 21:36:12 what did you mean then 21:36:20 im not clever enough to work it out 21:36:26 I just miss her 21:36:38 I was going to get a big list of scheme implementations off her 21:36:39 where is that bitch 21:40:41 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 21:40:53 isomer`` [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 21:47:24 -!- isomer [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:49:19 -!- Motoko_Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:49:30 there's a big list of implementations on the wiki 21:49:42 bigger than sarahbot herself! 21:49:43 *mbishop* hides 21:50:16 shocking 21:51:54 Kusanagi [n=Motoko@71-14-81-211.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 21:53:05 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 21:57:30 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 22:03:28 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-161-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:04:02 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-161-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 22:05:15 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-161-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:05:23 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 22:07:56 incubot: sarahbot? 22:07:58 sarahbot:"Foo." 22:08:37 ;( 22:09:57 -!- incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:10:06 mreh: I'm not sure, but it's possible that one of the simpler PLT languages will work. 22:10:22 this question keeps coming up. There should be a FAQ entry for it. 22:10:37 And for that matter, the book's website should clearly tell you! 22:14:47 incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:17:22 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 22:17:53 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:20:51 lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.148] has joined #scheme 22:21:52 Kusanagi [n=Motoko@71-14-81-211.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:22:18 *rotty* has updated the spells page at csw -- http://community.schemewiki.org/?spells 22:23:30 -!- incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:24:25 rotty, Spell's or Spells? 22:25:40 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has left #scheme 22:27:34 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:28:09 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:28:28 incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:31:43 ANOTHER portabilllity thingy?!!! 22:31:52 vixey: spells 22:32:05 Spells stands for Spell's a Portability Environment Library for Lots of Schemes 22:32:21 hkBst: spells has been around (in its former live) for quite some time 22:34:16 I think (spells foreign) is pretty neat in working on Ikarus, PLT and Ypsilon all the same (tough Ypsilon support is only lightly tested) 22:34:52 rotty: the project page uses "Spell's" 22:35:26 hkBst: ah, thanks. I need to update that as well 22:36:13 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 22:36:52 I actually have the three demo modules of the GTK+ demo that i ported from guile-gnome running on both ikarus and mzscheme (ypsilon doesn't work due to what appears to be a bug in the macro expander, which I'm about to report) 22:37:03 in C, I can write a macro around printf that'll also print out filename & line number, with __FILE__ and __LINE__ ... can I do something in chicken scheme? 22:37:20 i don't need the macro written for me; i just need to know the vars to use to get "filename" and "current line" 22:38:10 hml: there's also #chicken 22:40:08 -!- Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:40:17 mreha [n=mrehayde@host86-156-67-242.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 22:40:19 Motoko_Kusanagi [n=Motoko@71-14-81-211.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:40:25 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:42:12 Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:50:41 does scheme have a type-of function that returns things like 'cons 'number 'symbol 'number ... ? 22:51:03 hml, don't think so 22:51:14 hml, you can implement it with PAIR? and NUMBER? and stuff though 22:51:38 Kusanagi [n=Motoko@71-14-81-211.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:51:51 yeah, what i have right now is: 22:51:51 but if you are using a specific implementation .. different question altogether 22:51:52 '(define (my-typeof expr) (cond ((cons? expr) 'cons) ((symbol? expr) 'symbol) ((number? expr) 'number))) 22:51:59 minus the initial ' 22:52:10 wow " " 22:52:15 you really are identing 22:52:43 ehh? I don't see it 22:52:51 i think it has to do w/ my window size & usage of screen 22:52:55 and copy/pasting 22:56:24 hml: yeah, it's not possible in theory to know "the" type of a value 22:56:34 and I suspect it's difficult to know all the different types a value might have 22:57:17 in which theory? 22:57:37 seems possible doesn't the implementation have to tag stuff with what type it is? 22:58:02 oh you mean like, 3 has got type NUMBER as well as POSITIVE-NUMBER? 22:58:20 lelf` [n=lelf@217.118.90.185] has joined #scheme 22:58:58 for something like let ((expr (read))) ;; from stdio, is there a standard way to check for end of file? 22:58:59 -!- mreh [n=mrehayde@host86-156-67-242.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:59:10 yes hml 22:59:43 chicken has eof-object? 22:59:43 have a search for EOF in http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-15.html#%_index_start 22:59:44 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/3xs7wx 23:00:02 A better question is, Does chicken implement R5RS 23:00:22 isn't haskell alot better than scheme though? 23:00:30 i mean, all those brackets, what's that all about 23:00:45 mreha: macro power 23:00:58 hkBst, you're taking someone that thinks "alot" is a word seriously 23:01:06 -!- Motoko_Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:01:14 yeah, dont argue, just discredit 23:01:17 moran 23:01:24 vixey: not everyone has English for their native language 23:01:25 "moran" 23:01:25 nice 23:01:26 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:01:27 Motoko_Kusanagi [n=Motoko@71-14-81-211.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:01:39 hkBst, yeah I'm just being nasty for the sake of it :p 23:01:40 vixey: "offby1's theory of everything" 23:01:48 lol 23:01:52 the schemers are being nasty to me! 23:02:11 i just wanted to know what you thought 23:02:20 why are the brackets so.. necessary? 23:02:30 To piss off the people who dislike them 23:02:41 that isn't an answer 23:02:48 mreha, if you were geniune you lost all credibility by starting with "isn't haskell alot better than scheme though?" 23:03:02 i was joking! 23:03:10 Ah, hence the emoticon 23:03:18 starting with a hyperboli 23:03:32 mreha, oh, hard to tell. There's a big tendancy of haskell newbies to think they've found God 23:03:49 mreha, s/God/blub/ whatever, but it happens oft. 23:04:03 chicken implementint r5rs + chicken having eof-object? does not imply eof-object? is in r5rs 23:04:04 who are you, richard dawkins? 23:04:15 vixey: oft as in German? 23:04:23 oft. ~~> often 23:04:32 what's it German for? 23:04:51 i can see you're very sensitive on your brackets. However I want to be serious, what's the benefit? 23:04:55 mreha: dunno how anything I said was dawkinsy 23:05:17 mreha: well probably because I never listened to anything he said 23:05:24 vixey: funny, it's the same word in German :-) 23:05:32 mreha: Haskell is very nice. They have this thing called Template Haskell which I think tries to do what lisp macros do. That's what the parens are all about. 23:05:33 rotty, aha perfect! 23:06:13 underspecified [n=eric@c-68-50-36-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:06:22 *rotty* was thinking vixey was talking "with a German accent" 23:06:29 i see i am talking to the fundamentalist church of scheme here 23:06:42 mreha: all the parens make the syntax very regular 23:06:43 mreha: duh! ;p 23:06:51 fundamentalist church of scheme nice 23:06:59 #fundamentalist-church-of-scheme 23:07:01 oops 23:07:03 *rotty* fetches another beer 23:07:25 *vixey* was going to make it redirect here but it's too long a name :( 23:07:33 oposing #the-dianetics-of-scheme 23:08:01 dianetics, hmm I'll have to look that one up 23:08:15 synthasee [n=synthase@c-69-243-234-165.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:08:27 so the only benefit is regular syntax? 23:08:32 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dianetics 23:08:32 mreha: Lots have fixed this fundamental *problem* of Scheme, like Ruby and Xah Lee and so on 23:08:35 there must be a reason for going to all that trouble 23:08:42 mreha, so that's why nobody uses Scheme anymore 23:09:27 mreha: regular syntax makes for easy syntax parsing and thus easy syntax manipulation, i.e. macros which lead to unlimited expressive power... 23:09:43 or so the holy book teaches 23:09:51 hkBst, SICP? 23:09:59 vixey: none other 23:10:04 -!- lelf` [n=lelf@217.118.90.185] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 23:10:13 didn't have to ask really, :p just wanted to get the name mentioned 23:10:20 except ti doesn't mention macros, vixey :) 23:10:29 a macro sounds like a function application to me 23:10:37 hkBst, it actually uses one macro 23:10:58 vixey: it does? Which one is that? 23:11:06 DELAY 23:11:11 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:11:12 you define your function 23:11:20 and then call it 23:11:34 mreha: in a function application, all argument expressions are evaluated befor the function call happens; macros can decide when to evaluate their args 23:11:53 macros can 'decide' ? 23:11:59 does anyone know if Template Haskell is actually a good analogy for macros? 23:12:01 rotty, not keen on macros as evaluators more like syntax transformers 23:12:04 I feel that macro doesn't do evaluation; it just does expr rewriting 23:12:21 hkBst: Template Haskell is an abomination 23:12:28 vixey: :D 23:12:58 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-44-95.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 23:13:15 Template Haskell says, "I would not like to investigate new approaches to typed polytypic programming neither would I like to make use of years or research into staged programming since it's yucky and stinks of ML" 23:13:16 yeah, that was probably pretty bad wording 23:13:30 -!- Kakurady [i=nekomimi@CPE001c23928657-CM00159a3b7392.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #scheme 23:13:35 mreha: did you ever hear about uses of C++ template metaprogramming? 23:13:49 it's turing complete! 23:13:54 metaprogramming 23:13:58 no 23:14:01 hml, your mom is turing complete 23:14:27 what is metaprogramming, evolutionary programming 23:14:43 metaprogramming is programming 23:14:47 -!- lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.148] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:14:50 hkBst: but you can't do stuff like reading files or querying a database from C++ templates (at expansion/compile time), can you? 23:15:01 some people say "meta" a lot when they get confused about something 23:15:03 rotty's C++ is rusty 23:15:27 mreha: http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/lisp.html tries to explain what the parens are for from the outsider perspective. It's pretty good. 23:16:03 rotty: I don't think you can, but I don't follow C++ that much anymore 23:18:28 mreha: for example, one thing that is possible with macros, and that I've done recently, is read a file essentially representing definitions of C structs/unions and use that data to generate accessors for these structs/unions at expand time (would be compile time in C, but you wouldn't need *that* feature in C, as the compiler does that already for you) 23:19:26 you could as well query a database to check if the DB schema matches the SQL queries in your program 23:19:39 what ?? 23:19:43 (at compile time) 23:19:52 rotty why the *fuck* would you do that 23:20:42 "because we can(TM)" 23:20:49 vixey: that's a feature I've seen in the Oracle C-with-SQL-statements-inside (don't remember what it was called) 23:20:58 ... language 23:21:02 well that is a good reason as any 23:21:03 ... compiler 23:21:21 not that I would do that 23:21:35 vixey: or were you referring to the C struct thing? 23:21:56 rotty, that SQL thing made me worried 23:22:33 vixey: worried about what? 23:23:01 I.. don't want to talk about it 23:23:17 oh, come on ;-) 23:26:39 mreh [n=mrehayde@host86-156-67-242.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 23:28:49 C-with-SQL-statements-inside, that's C# right? 23:29:21 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-26-137.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:29:33 hkBst: nice joke )) 23:34:19 hkBst: there exists C with SQL statements inside. 23:34:49 -!- mreh [n=mrehayde@host86-156-67-242.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 23:36:34 is there a listing of R6RS forms divided into special forms, macros and procedures? 23:36:57 hkBst: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/static/ecpg-concept.html 23:37:16 mreha: if you don't immediately grasp the jedi-like aesthetics of lisp, you really should get your midichlorian count checked: http://xkcd.com/297/ 23:37:18 I wouldn't want to read every letter of R6RS to find out what is what and what is available? 23:38:13 s/?/\./ 23:41:30 Leonidas: There is a section, describing basic forms in the 'main report' and a whole document with 'not-so-basic' forms 23:41:40 -!- mirakel [n=mikael@c-7642e353.027-10-67766c2.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #scheme 23:41:49 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:42:17 Or do you want just a list of form 'names' and short descriptions? 23:44:32 Mr-Cat: names and short descriptions would be enough I think. 23:45:04 It might be interesting to know whether they are normal procedures or macros or something else, though. 23:45:11 Well, I've never come across such a document 23:45:59 Basically, I am extending a syntax highlighter and would like to add all "well known procedures" and all "well known macros" 23:46:06 -!- mreha [n=mrehayde@host86-156-67-242.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:47:25 Then, you can look through 'syntax files' from vim for example 23:47:52 Mr-Cat: that's what I did last time :) 23:48:23 Didn't help much? 23:48:48 Mr-Cat: well, it was ok, but they probably haven't yet updated to R6RS 23:50:08 I'm planning to include everything defined in R6RS, so I could feed in any file from the R6RS test suite and it would know all pre-defined forms. 23:50:45 (this is this "perfectionist" thing, you know) 23:51:42 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DDF9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:52:51         23:52:55 Sorry 23:53:13 Unfortunately I've never come across such a thing 23:53:22 wow  looks like phi 23:53:25 anyway, goot to know that there's no such overview. Not that I read through it and then find out that there is an overview somewhere an I just did not know it :) 23:54:18 vixey: cyrillic and greek have some things in common. 23:56:43 vixey: Cyrillic was originally derived from greek 23:57:04 So,  and phi are more or less same letters 23:58:04 - ! 23:58:42 the guy who designed cyrillic was greek (although bulgarians say he was bulgarian)