00:02:01 define-macro has no output at all. 00:02:13 its purpose in life is to add a new macro to the global ... whatever-it-is. 00:03:05 the global language? 00:03:27 "output" - I mean the form, the macro expands to 00:03:28 sure, I guess 00:03:42 actually it can be anything, but yes, a list of symbols is typical 00:04:11 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:04:30 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 00:06:31 rudybot: eval (require mzlib/defmacro) 00:06:37 rudybot: eval (define-macro (case value) `(let ((v ,value)) (display ',value) (display ": ") (display v) (newline))) 00:06:43 rudybot: eval (case (+ 3 2)) 00:06:43 offby1: ; stdout: "(+ 3 2): 5\n" 00:07:30 Adamant [n=Adamant@71-83-15-2.static.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:08:00 rudybot: eval ; stdout: "(+ 3 2): 5\n" 00:08:28 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-053-165.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:08:53 ha 00:09:03 you heff to know zee special Sekrit language 00:09:13 ha? 00:09:16 ha. 00:09:50 what kind of sekrit language? 00:10:43 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 00:10:43 scheme, with ": eval " in front of it. 00:10:46 shh, don't tell anyone 00:11:08 actually what zbigniew said was perfectly good scheme; it's just that it was a comment 00:11:14 ja 00:13:09 Hm... And how can I make, say, plt or chicken scheme show me the source after macro expansion? 00:14:25 Mr-Cat: In chicken, you can do: ,x (expression) 00:15:10 rudybot: eval (macroexpand '(case (+ 3 2))) 00:15:10 offby1: error: reference to undefined identifier: macroexpand 00:15:13 hmph 00:15:34 rudybot: eval (expand '(case (+ 3 2))) 00:15:34 offby1: ; Value: # 00:15:56 rudybot: eval (syntax->datum (expand '(case (+ 3 2)))) 00:15:57 offby1: ; Value: (let-values (((v) (#%app + (quote 3) (quote 2)))) (#%app display (quote (+ 3 2))) (#%app display (quote ": ")) (#%app display v) (#%app newline)) 00:17:07 -!- jdev [i=jdev@panix5.panix.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:21:03 Thnx 00:24:24 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["leaving"] 00:27:05 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133115102.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:31:53 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:48:11 -!- pavelludiq [n=pavellud@87.246.14.26] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:48:46 krat3r [n=krat@bl4-164-7.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 00:58:08 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE675.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 01:02:37 lol i found a bug that is present in 4 of the R6RS implementations I have tested... 01:05:24 ow, goodie, do tell! 01:05:42 posting to r6rs mail list, will give link soon 01:06:20 nooooooooo, they'll fix it! 01:11:49 http://lists.r6rs.org/pipermail/r6rs-discuss/2008-December/003758.html 01:12:12 jdev [i=jdev@panix5.panix.com] has joined #scheme 01:13:35 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133115102.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:14:48 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133115102.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:19:29 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:21:43 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 01:21:54 for education purposes, i'm rewriting the wheel of writing a scheme pretty printer 01:22:05 are there 'official specs' for how scheme code should be printed? 01:22:49 see you, guys 01:22:52 -!- arthurmaciel [n=user@201.80.20.127] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:23:45 hml: R6RS might say something about it too 01:23:58 it _too_ ? 01:24:04 so what is the primary source? 01:24:16 oh, is maybe r6rs is bloated, so it might say somethinng about it too 01:24:18 gotcha :-) 01:26:20 hml: actually that "too" was a braino 01:26:33 AtomicToad [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 01:26:57 -!- AtomicToad [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:27:00 hml: if you limit yourself to inserting whitespace in between atoms, I don't think you can go wrong. 01:28:33 -!- KucukMubasir [n=Halliday@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:28:49 i would like to know too 01:29:26 rudybot: eval (define(fooarg)arg)(foo) 01:29:26 sladegen: error: reference to undefined identifier: foo 01:29:51 *offby1* laughs cruelly 01:30:22 rudybot: eval (pretty-print '(snord (frop blop) "yee ha")) 01:30:22 offby1: ; stdout: "(snord (frop blop) \"yee ha\")\n" 01:30:34 rudybot: eval (pretty-print (build-list 100 values)) 01:30:34 offby1: ; stdout: "(0\n 1\n 2\n 3\n 4\n 5\n 6\n 7\n 8\n 9\n 10\n 11\n 12\n 13\n 14\n 15\n 16\n 17\n 18\n 19\n 20\n 21\n 22\n 23\n 24\n 25\n 26\n 27\n 28\n 29\n 30\n 31\n 32\n 33\n 34\n 35\n 36\n 37\n 38\n 39\n 40\n 41\n 42\n 43\n 44\n 45\n 46\n 47\n 48\n 49\n 50\n 51\n 52\n 53\n 54\n 55\n 56\n 57\n 58\n 59\n 60\n 61\n 62\n 63\n 64\n 65\n 66\n 67\n 68\n 69\n 70\n 71\n 72\n 73\n 74\n 75\n 76\n 77\n 78\n 79\n 80\n 81\n 82\n 83\n 84\n 85\n 86\n 87\n 01:30:50 lol that sucks :p 01:31:08 thats not pretty, its a waste of space 01:32:15 i'll bet scheme is pretty good for NLP. 01:35:10 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:35:42 offby1: it's more along the lines of where to place newlinies and how much to tab s tuff 01:36:42 yep 01:38:57 CellKill [n=CellKill@h226.206.255.206.cable.srcy.cablelynx.com] has joined #scheme 01:39:06 -!- CellKill [n=CellKill@h226.206.255.206.cable.srcy.cablelynx.com] has left #scheme 01:41:56 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:48:15 md22 [n=md22@209.59.101.179] has joined #scheme 01:49:19 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-133-165.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:55:16 WOW people are already calling web 2.0 dead. 01:55:31 *gasp* 01:55:40 my life savings 01:55:54 Well you probably didn't have much to begin with. 01:55:58 err, fb apps are still pulling in $$$ 01:56:01 next is web3.0++ 01:56:47 you can now receive your twitters in 3D! 01:57:20 "Hello. I am a talking e-mail!" 01:58:11 hml: Yea i was thinking its just on life support or something. 01:58:25 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-120-170.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 02:00:48 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:01:09 web0x03++ 02:01:56 "A _talking_ picture". 02:02:07 RNRW 02:02:49 -!- md22 [n=md22@209.59.101.179] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:02:50 a talking picture is worth 1e6 words. 02:05:05 God is silent. Now if we could only get Man to shut up. 02:05:10 . -- Woody Allen 02:05:52 incubot: woody allen 02:05:54 "Fearing federal intervention, Vincent Columbraro, the Buttered Toast King, called for a truce. (Columbraro had such tight control over all buttered toast moving in and out of New Jersey that one word from him could ruin breakfast for two-thirds of the nation.)" -- Woody Allen, "A Look At Organized Crime" 02:06:53 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:07:44 incubot: yow 02:08:07 -!- xah_lee [n=x_a_h@c-76-102-50-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["banned in #emacs by johnsu01 (john sullivan)"] 02:09:09 *offby1* cannot help but assume that he himself is responsible for the presence of that "factoid" in incubot's databse 02:09:16 database 02:09:49 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 02:09:54 I'm having BEAUTIFUL THOUGHTS about the INSIPID WIVES of smug and 02:09:54 wealthy CORPORATE LAWYERS ... 02:10:40 moving in and out of New Jersey 02:10:43 hot 02:11:17 cold shower, boy 02:11:42 wartalker [n=WarTalke@210.51.173.167] has joined #scheme 02:11:59 incubot: Allen 02:12:01 Playing MPEG stream from misc-clips/Christopher_Walken_-_Edgar_Allen_Poe_-_The_Raven.mp3 ... 02:12:05 incubot: Woody 02:12:07 hey, don't knock masturbation. It's sex with someone I love. -- Woody Allen 02:12:24 incubot: Dicky Betts 02:12:26 wrinkles, accululated fat, and dicky knees? 02:12:36 i want write scheme in emacs just like write elisp in *scrach, how can i do 02:13:10 incubot: beefsteak 02:13:13 Mr. Wertheimer said the baskets of meat he had prepared would be used that night at a beefsteak in the Odd Fellows' Hall on East 106th Street; the Republican Club of the Twentieth Assembly District was running it. He invited me to go along. 02:13:24 wartalker: M-x run-scheme 02:13:53 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:13:58 wartalker: C-x C-e 02:14:02 Then use C-x C-e or C-c C-r to send commands to the REPL 02:14:07 M-x walk-scheme 02:14:50 thanks all 02:15:02 wartalker: the real answer: there's no way to get it quite as nice as elisp :-| 02:15:35 *sladegen* hits offby1 with a cane. 02:15:40 elisp ... nice ... why are those two words in the same sentence 02:15:45 *offby1* reflexively throws his dentures at sladegen 02:15:48 md22 [n=md22@76.76.161.129] has joined #scheme 02:15:56 now, S-Lang... 02:16:08 zbigniew: say what you will about the language itself, its integration with Emacs is superb. 02:16:12 *zbigniew* quickly ducks 02:16:22 (16 seconds later) 02:16:59 *offby1* looks around for mbishop 02:17:04 he's behind all this, I know it. 02:17:17 ok, but only because the elisp you are writing is directly affecting your emacs 02:17:20 sure 02:17:50 incubot: dingbat 02:17:53 unicode: DINGBAT CIRCLED SANS-SERIF DIGIT FIVE 02:18:15 it's like talking to sarahbot by proxy 02:21:24 incubot: proxy 02:21:26 if i was you and didn't want to set up an own HTTPD, i would either go with a simple httpd behind a http proxy, or go with fastcgi, multiplexed or not 02:21:32 incubot: zbigniew 02:21:34 i'm using guile, what program are you using= 02:21:39 endless hours of entertainment. 02:21:40 hey wait. 02:21:47 how'd that get in there? 02:21:56 I believe that was snark. 02:22:01 zbigniew: do you think you said "i'm using guile, what program are you using=" at some point? 02:22:04 doesn't sound like you 02:22:07 Definitely. 02:22:13 you tend to spell and punctuate properly 02:22:21 and somehow I don't see you using Guile 02:22:56 *hml* suddenly has a brilliant moment of insight and realizes why haskell values purity so much 02:22:58 The equals is a little weird, but I was definitely demonstrating that some operation worked in the guile interpreter 02:23:21 I think it had to do with loading a srfi 02:24:05 hml: purity, hm? you mean standardization? 02:24:19 I think hml means side-effect-free-ness 02:25:30 yeah 02:25:38 oh okay. 02:25:40 on the compiler writing side, you can choose to do whatever whenever 02:25:50 I value minimizing side effects. 02:26:00 since order of execution, w/ exception of monads, is awesome 02:26:11 me too, but even when i write my code side effect free 02:26:22 w/o explicit tagging, I don't see how the compmiler can know "hey, this part is pure" 02:26:28 or maybe my compilers background sucks 02:26:47 zbigniew: in that case, I wonder if Mr incubot has a bug, wherein when he searches, he includes the speaker of an utterance; but he doesn't display the speaker's name 02:27:14 *mbishop* cackles and runs into the shadows 02:27:25 incubot: offby1 02:27:40 incubot: don't you like me? 02:27:42 could be worse; like vb 02:27:57 incubot: i VB++ you! 02:27:59 offby1: yes, that is what is happening; whether it is a bug is in the eye of the beholder 02:28:03 I am an un-person 02:28:06 incubot: srfi-51 02:28:08 I'm not sure SRFI 74 is necessarily the best interface to the underlying mechanism, but the underlying mechanism it presents, I think, is much more important than what SRFI 4 provides. 02:28:11 incubot: klutometis 02:28:13 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["leaving"] 02:28:13 well sort of, it starts by mapping a n element list to n lists, the i'th of which has the i'th element removed and added to the front of the list 02:28:26 incubot: incubot malkovich 02:28:28 annotated #31223 with "simplified M-x malkovich-region RET for Edwin" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/31223#2 02:28:47 malkovich buffalo kaufman 02:41:54 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 02:42:10 two questions: is there an equiv of ,@ that doesn't require ` ? 02:42:46 i.e. I instead of: (apply format #f options) ; I want to write (format #f [some-type-of-magic-here]options) 02:43:11 also, in emacs, when dealing with scheme code, is it possible to do a search that ignores comments? 02:47:48 1) heck no 02:47:55 2) don't think so :-| 02:48:13 etags? 02:57:45 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #scheme 03:03:35 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 03:04:43 http://gumuz.nl/weblog/python-extended-slice-assignment/ 03:04:51 *foof* thought Python was supposed to be readable 03:08:20 underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:08:21 ... mostly it's the [0]*n that puzzles me 03:08:27 foof: eh, they could assign some of that to temporary variables to make it nicer-looking. scheme would be just as illegible if you wrote your program as one giant lambda expression 03:08:52 and of course "with one assignment instead of many in a loop" becomes true without explicit loop... 03:08:53 [x] * n gives you an array of length n filled with the value x 03:09:09 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:09:14 Yes, that's obvious from context, but out of context it's very, very counterintuitive. 03:10:16 foof: There is a repeat(x,n), for those who want to use it. 03:18:04 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/96767/ <== wonder if I got it right? 03:18:16 understood what they were trying to do there, I mean 03:21:03 Seems to me the sieve of Erasmus isn't a good method for large primes. You'd want some kind of estimate method before going and searching through all possible factors. 03:21:31 Be cheaper just to check the modulus of n and i, than to set all multiples of i in an n-tuple to 0. 03:22:02 Erasmus? 03:22:34 That's what your function is doing ozy`... it's a method to find if a number is prime or not. I can't comment on whether it's good python or not. 03:23:20 I have a feeling assigning to a slice is faster than looping through a python-list and assigning elements. 03:23:34 According to Wikipedia, Mansfield College, Oxford, named the college cat after Erasmus. 03:25:10 synx: no, I mean, s/Erasmus/Eratosthenes/ 03:25:28 Oh oops 03:25:38 ozy`: I had the name wrong, sorry. ^.^; 03:25:39 Must you be so picky? 03:26:24 underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:27:42 zbigniew: sure. they're all dead white people so I guess it doesn't really matter 03:27:54 hml_ [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 03:28:03 -!- hml_ [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:28:19 anyway back to the sieve of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk or whatever it is 03:28:26 how do i do file i/o in chicken scheme? the section on file is more about checking existence / deleting / moving files rather than reading from and writing to them 03:29:06 the sieve of Al-Khwarizmi 03:29:37 "file i/o" is a pretty vague topic, hml 03:29:57 you could very well do it with only the procedures defined in r5rs 03:45:44 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:58:19 -!- wartalker [n=WarTalke@210.51.173.167] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:00:58 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180067161.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:03:04 elmex [n=elmex@e180067007.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:22:37 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit ["bbl"] 04:22:54 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 04:24:21 arcfide [n=arcfide@h-69-3-101-25.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #scheme 04:27:53 wartalker [n=wartalke@210.51.173.167] has joined #scheme 04:28:16 how to install mit-scheme in ubuntu8.1 04:32:20 foof [n=user@clair08.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 04:36:49 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:44:50 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:47:16 ./configure && make && make install ? 04:47:46 wartalker, is there no Ubuntu package for it? 04:48:08 Riastradh: thanks, i have foud it 04:55:07 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 04:57:30 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 04:58:06 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:00:32 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:00:36 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:05:59 -!- wartalker [n=wartalke@210.51.173.167] has left #scheme 05:09:35 underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:15:57 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:23:54 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:51 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176223170.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:28:28 -!- tjafk [n=timj@e176212022.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:34:57 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has joined #scheme 05:36:20 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 05:36:40 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 05:38:43 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:41:17 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:55:05 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-24-31.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 05:55:07 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:56:30 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:57:30 Fare [n=Fare@c-71-232-6-92.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:57:37 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 06:05:29 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:14:16 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-203-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 06:20:46 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-204-183-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 06:24:01 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 06:31:22 -!- md22 [n=md22@76.76.161.129] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:48:42 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:02:54 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:02:55 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@h-69-3-101-25.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:29:00 haole [n=kia@200-232-197-236.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #scheme 07:30:44 is there a difference in the way you design a project in scheme against a project in common-lisp? do any of those force you to think in a different way? 07:32:56 probably 07:33:08 scheme and CL have a lot of dissimilarity 07:33:16 but what you say is too general 07:33:23 be more specific 07:33:57 in general, I'd say that scheme stresses functional programming, whereas cl barely supports it. 07:34:04 i want to start a big project that has to interface with a server, parse some large messages and do some artificial intelligence application with it, returning some result to the server and so on... 07:34:23 "artificial intelligence". ahem. can mean anything. 07:34:24 it is a complex system and it has some performance needs, and i want to write it in lisp so i can grow as a programmer 07:34:37 however, i can't decide which lisp to use: scheme or common-lisp 07:34:40 so far, can be done in any language 07:35:09 yeah, it can be done in any language, and there are already several implementations of it 07:35:19 i want to write it in lisp to see if it gets simpler 07:35:23 oh. What is it? 07:35:26 because all of the other projects for this is a messa 07:35:29 mess* 07:35:35 it's robocup's soccer simulator :) 07:35:39 the 2D competition 07:35:56 unless you need continuations or proper tail-calls, then the two are mostly equivalent 07:36:14 oh. What's the target platform? 07:36:29 what do you mean? windows, linux, etc? 07:36:54 with an actual robot? 07:37:04 yes - OS and CPU. 07:37:09 no, this is just a simulated environment 07:37:19 but my team also have a team of robots :D 07:37:34 but their ai is much simpler, as they can do a lot less than the virtual ones ;) 07:38:10 the OS can be mac os x, any unix-like and windows... for any cpu :D yeah, i think quite everything 07:38:21 ok, not any cpu... just the most common ones 07:39:23 and when i spoke about artificial intelligence, i was just trying to say that it would be nice if the language was able to do some heavy mathematical computation in itself, rather than going to C all the time 07:39:27 both CL and Scheme can be good. If performance is an issue, yet you want a dynamic environment, I'd say CL. 07:40:09 If performance is less of an issue, or you'd like to stress functional programming or other funky DSL techniques, I'd say Scheme. 07:40:19 but CL won't support head-tail implementations? i was having fun with those :) 07:40:42 or performance is an issue and you can statically compile everything -- then scheme also 07:40:48 what's head-tail ? 07:41:08 i'm sorry, i'm just reading some books and i'm quite noob... i think i'm speaking about car and cdr 07:41:24 oh well, both cl and scheme have that 07:41:56 if you pick scheme, I recommend choosing a particular implementation and using all its capabilities, not just the standard. 07:41:59 i think i will stick to scheme and see what happens... just one last question: what do you use to develop scheme? CL has this very nice slime thing for emacs 07:42:37 I'd use PLT Scheme. 07:43:02 so... emacs is not a friend of scheme? :D 07:43:05 but these days I use mostly CL, so who am I to tell? 07:43:15 :) 07:43:21 emacs is probably a friend to scheme... but ask other people around here 07:43:33 ok... thanks for your time and answers :) 07:44:57 -!- haole [n=kia@200-232-197-236.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 07:45:27 offby1: ping 07:46:13 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 07:47:21 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:48:18 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:53:37 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:55:30 -!- Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 07:56:21 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 08:01:22 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:05:13 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 08:06:54 sam_ [n=Sami__@a91-153-217-159.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 08:09:19 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:09:37 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 08:14:42 Mr-Cat [n=chatzill@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 08:15:12 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:20:51 -!- Mr-Cat [n=chatzill@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 08:31:56 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 08:32:55 Mr-Cat_ [n=Mr-Cat@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 08:33:01 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 08:33:28 -!- Mr-Cat_ [n=Mr-Cat@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 08:33:38 Mr-Cat_ [n=Mr-Cat@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 08:34:23 http://synthcode.com/emacs/scheme-complete-0.8.4.el.gz <- new release, too many minor bugfixes for me to remember 08:34:41 ... been meaning to release that for a while. Merry Christmas! 08:39:58 what's scheme-complete ? 08:39:59 -!- Mr-Cat_ [n=Mr-Cat@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:40:07 completion for scheme code? 08:40:17 no r6rs :( 08:40:21 Mhm. 08:40:22 smart tab completion 08:41:18 come on foof, only 500 extra definitions in R6RS, should be quick :) 08:41:49 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 08:42:06 At that point I split it out into several files that load on demand... something I don't have the time for now. 08:43:12 i just wish i knew how emacs worked... 08:43:30 *foof* too 08:43:52 i dont even know how to load your file :( 08:44:06 Instructions at top. 08:44:25 derrick eddington made a nice scheme mode for R6RS, but I have no clue how to 'activate' it 08:44:39 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 08:44:45 also , I dont know how to get the fonts crystal clear 08:44:50 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 08:54:03 barney [n=bernhard@p549A0D34.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 08:54:51 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-71-232-6-92.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:03:37 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-24-31.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:06:05 r11t [n=r11t@74.193.238.104] has joined #scheme 09:06:24 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 09:11:23 arcfide [n=arcfide@h-69-3-101-25.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #scheme 09:37:15 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:37:20 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 09:40:35 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:42:02 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Connection reset by beer"] 09:48:42 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-27-129.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 09:58:27 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-55-229.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:06:43 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:06:52 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 10:19:17 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:19:42 -!- r11t [n=r11t@74.193.238.104] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:20:31 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 10:24:20 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 10:25:01 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-053-165.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 10:30:07 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:38:55 foof` [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 10:41:26 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@h-69-3-101-25.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:42:57 pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 10:46:42 -!- foof [n=user@clair08.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:54:03 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-053-165.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:58:04 -!- krat3r [n=krat@bl4-164-7.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:00:35 -!- rcy [n=rcy@S01060013102d91ee.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:09:39 underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 11:09:47 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE645.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 11:10:24 araujo [n=araujo@190.37.166.81] has joined #scheme 11:11:49 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:12:06 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 11:13:36 krat3r [n=krat@bl4-204-129.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 11:22:34 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizo 11:22:37 -!- tizo is now known as tizoc 11:23:51 *rotty* got sbank working on mzscheme :-) 11:27:46 cool 11:27:57 did you find out about that 'bug'? 11:29:22 leppie: the macro thing? Yeah, Aziz anwered that: http://groups.google.com/group/plt-scheme/browse_thread/thread/a0f3f3265c8025cf 11:29:23 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/76twrr 11:29:42 lol ironic :p 11:30:08 it was in fact the same phase thing that came up on c.l.s 11:30:20 it sounded like that 11:33:05 last night i found a bug that was present in 3 of the 5 R6RS implementation I tested :) 11:36:23 *rotty* will try his hand on porting sbank to Ypsilon, next 11:36:44 leppie: what was the bug, and which impls did you test? 11:37:06 http://lists.r6rs.org/pipermail/r6rs-discuss/2008-December/003758.html 11:37:19 i tested Larceny afterwards, which behaved correctly 11:37:32 svn checkout http://ypsilon.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ ypsilon-read-only 11:37:39 uh, sorry 11:39:06 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:39:16 he fixed it :p 11:39:19 so did aziz 11:40:12 i am sure there are a few more corner cases in fixnums 11:41:13 wartalker [n=wartalke@61.49.173.191] has joined #scheme 11:42:26 what interpreter supprot the SICP programe 11:47:03 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:49:40 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 12:02:53 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-167-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 12:06:58 rcy [n=rcy@S01060013102d91ee.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 12:10:35 -!- foof` is now known as foof 12:15:42 -!- wartalker [n=wartalke@61.49.173.191] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:26:06 timchen1` [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #scheme 12:26:50 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:31:23 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:36:54 wartalker [n=wartalke@61.49.232.146] has joined #scheme 12:41:29 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 12:48:18 -!- wartalker [n=wartalke@61.49.232.146] has left #scheme 13:16:20 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 13:21:14 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:23:07 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:31:26 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133115102.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 13:34:38 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 13:58:51 *leppie* is hungry for speed! 13:59:00 Vital303 [n=vital303@e181059200.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 14:08:15 leppie: Premature optimization will be the DEATH of you! 14:08:58 lol i think i spent a year doing very little optimization, but now my patience has run out! 14:09:19 i sped up letrec loops by 50% 14:09:38 leppie: What for? )) 14:10:07 im trying to not be the slowest R6RS out there :p 14:11:28 leppie?... Are you IronScheme? 14:11:37 yes 14:11:47 see, everyone knows! 14:11:50 hehe 14:12:34 Well, I thought IronScheme is fast enough, thanks to DLR... Was I wrong? 14:12:47 thanks to DLR it is slow! 14:13:05 next major step is to remove that python centric rubbish 14:13:39 it emits so much 'unneeded' stuff, that I cant figure out how to remove 14:14:56 well chage is the better word 14:14:59 change 14:17:59 In fact I'm a bit surprised to hear that DLR is slow. MS (and Sun with its dynamic extensions to Java) have been talking so much about their brilliant, fast and so on frameworks, that I finally started to believe them. 14:18:35 its fast if you compare it to vanilla python and ruby 14:20:42 i wanna try learn F# maybe, as there framework seems much more suited for a serious compiler, and seems to match scheme semantics quite well 14:21:01 s/there/their 14:22:35 "Their framework"? Do you mean, F# is based on some kind of "Functional language Runtime", which one can use to implement "his own" language? 14:23:10 its called abstract IL or ILX or something 14:23:28 i think its a subset of ocaml 14:23:48 which i dont know either! 14:25:11 Yes, F# is OCaml, modified to fit into .NET languages family AFAIK 14:30:31 Grr... research.microsoft.com seems to be partially down 14:32:36 Dr Who christmas special! 14:33:01 Aww. 14:33:11 leppie: Are you the Iron man of Iron scheme? 14:33:30 no, im am the only man in IronScheme 14:44:43 leppie: Are continuations and TCO implemented yet? 14:45:10 tail calls worked from the start 14:45:32 i have a build the i do CPS on the source, but it's very slow 14:46:02 leppie: Does cheney on the MTA work? 14:46:32 leppie: The continuations that chicken uses? 14:46:50 hmm 14:47:02 let me refresh my memory on that 14:48:21 well it works like that 14:48:45 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 14:49:11 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-249.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 14:50:16 i dont have the problem C has for tail calls 14:50:35 .NET support that natively, and it's a major bottleneck 14:51:16 F# uses tail calls liberally, so I would expect the slowness to be remedied in a future version of .NET 14:51:35 Unfortunately Mono does not get tail calls right at all :( 14:55:21 r2q2: I'm not sure, chicken scheme approach is going to work in .NET. IMHO, in .NET GC cannot collect stack frames 14:55:23 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:55:52 So, you have to allocate the data in ordinary heap anyway 14:57:20 IMHO, scicken scheme approach is for lowlewel implementations only. 14:57:57 leppie: And which TCO transformation algorithm did you use? 14:58:59 what do you mean Mr-Cat? .NET has native tail call support, I dont need anything else? 14:59:25 I've looked through the one from "Essentials of programming languages" by MIT Press. It seems to be not very complicated. But I've also come across some brain-damaging optimized algorithms. 15:00:54 the only 'optimization' i do for tail calls if to branch out condtionals, so it becomes an 'if' statement for 2 or more exits, where all exits support tail calls still 15:01:43 s/if/is/ 15:02:20 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:02:42 I mean that chicken scheme approach needs not TCO but special handling of stack frames by the GC 15:02:50 AFAIK, of course 15:02:57 today i have been doing some beta reduction, which i guess could be called TC elimination 15:02:59 underspecified [n=eric@c-68-50-36-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:03:16 Shit 15:03:32 I wanted to ask about CPS transformation 15:03:41 ok 15:03:52 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@a91-153-217-159.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 15:04:09 Just "mistyped" (the whole word) 15:04:16 ikarus 0.0.4 release pending :p 15:04:23 finally! 15:04:23 :-) 15:05:06 ikarus? 15:05:10 What is it 15:05:14 oh, you asked about CPS transform? I used an excellent one that Riastradh wrote 15:05:19 I've googled only this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikarus_Bus 15:05:48 5th link 15:06:43 Mr-Cat: MMKAY thanks. 15:06:55 What about larceny. 15:07:35 what about larceny? 15:08:01 leppie: Doesn't common larceny implement TCO and COntinuations and all of that stuff. 15:08:22 yes, AFAIK, but no R6RS support yet 15:08:52 i wish they would fix/complete that, i wanna benchmark a bit :) 15:10:02 leppie: Some of the scheme implementors hate R6rs. 15:10:31 but larceny supports R6RS, just not common larceny 15:10:46 oh okay 15:10:54 apperently not much to fix, but it seems no-one is doing it 15:11:15 maybe MS stopped funding :p 15:14:17 Riastradh's CPS transform? Could you please provide a link, today google does not like me 15:14:44 http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/cps.scm 15:16:00 Thnx 15:35:14 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-108-36.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:47:27 drdo``` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 15:47:38 minion: chant 15:47:38 MORE HELPFUL 15:48:30 minion: chant 15:48:30 MORE HELPFUL 15:49:29 minion: Can you be even more helpful? ))) 15:49:30 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 15:49:42 sam_ [n=Sami__@a91-153-217-159.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 15:50:25 minion: When did your intelligence increase? 15:50:26 later 15:50:29 heh 15:51:03 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:03:40 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-167-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:10:20 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:10:39 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:11:48 Mr-Cat, Chicken's approach requires tracing not C stack frames but Scheme objects which happen to be stored on the C stack. 16:12:21 vasa [n=vasa@mm-172-93-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 16:12:31 The same could perfectly well be done in C# or in Java. 16:14:13 drdo```` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 16:14:44 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A0D34.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:15:10 Riastradh: But after that you should be able to contract the stack and remove the frames that are needed no more? 16:15:10 By contrast, for example, the Boehm garbage collector actually does trace C stack frames, for which it has all sorts of low-level, OS- and machine-specific hacks to make it work, whether or not the local C compiler wants it to. 16:15:20 Or am I wrong? 16:15:22 Sure. That's what return, or longjmp, are for. 16:15:40 (I mean: `That's what return and longjmp are for.' or `That's what return, or longjmp, is for.') 16:15:59 And can you longjump in Java? 16:16:10 No, but you can return, or you can throw an exception. 16:16:36 .NET supports a very limited form of longjmp 16:17:04 But AFAIK return and throw can free only a continuous "region" of stack frames 16:18:18 What if used and unused frames are mixed? can you filter out the unused frames? 16:18:34 Isn't longjmp a "throw" in essence? 16:18:43 What do you mean by `used and unused frames'? 16:18:59 From what I remember from man page, its use is limited to that case. 16:19:08 Well, frames containing and not containing referenced data 16:19:18 After the Scheme stack has been traced, the storage it occupied on the C stack is no longer needed. 16:20:09 Yes 16:20:41 In C you can just drop all the stack and leave only referenced objects 16:20:57 But is it possible in Java or .NET? 16:21:06 I'm not sure 16:21:08 Yes. 16:21:25 Using some lowlevel bytecode magic? 16:21:28 No. 16:21:57 Oh 16:22:01 I understand now 16:22:55 You can throw an exception (which is tantamount to longjmp, because of Java and .NET's conflation of condition handling with control flow constructs), or you can arrange that all of the Java methods involved in Scheme control flow return a heap-allocated continuation to a trampoline, after tracing the stack. 16:22:58 Instead of dropping the stack you just throw 16:23:14 (The latter method works in C, too, without longjmp.) 16:24:04 So, I see now 16:24:51 there is a nice paper on that 16:24:53 (There is an issue in Java, which is that you don't know when the stack is about to overflow, while that's easier to cruft together in C.) 16:25:42 A paper? 16:26:00 Different from this one: http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/CheneyMTA.html ? 16:26:33 yes 16:26:52 http://www.ccs.neu.edu/scheme/pubs/stackhack4.html 16:27:05 thnx 16:27:53 -!- drdo``` 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[n=vital303@e181004177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 18:32:05 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:33:36 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 18:45:42 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit ["rebooting emacs(!)"] 18:45:42 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:52:09 nirvanawhy [n=nirvanaw@60.171.4.158] has joined #scheme 18:58:16 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:01:47 -!- nirvanawhy [n=nirvanaw@60.171.4.158] has left #scheme 19:07:15 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 19:07:25 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:07:37 r11t [n=r11t@74.193.238.104] has joined #scheme 19:08:34 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 19:09:04 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:09:40 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 19:10:18 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [Client Quit] 19:12:28 r11t_ [n=r11t@74.193.238.104] has joined #scheme 19:12:33 -!- r11t [n=r11t@74.193.238.104] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:12:37 -!- r11t_ is now known as r11t 19:14:28 -!- r2q2` is now known as offbyn 19:14:53 -!- offbyn is now known as r2q2 19:16:44 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:20:44 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 19:20:56 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-069-167-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 19:27:06 rudybot: Hey buddy. 19:28:10 rudybot: eval (enter! (file ("blah.ss"))) 19:28:10 r2q2: error: eval:1:8: file: misuse of module-path constructor (not within, e.g., `require' or `provide') in: (file ("blah.ss")) 19:28:13 *offby1* shifts nervously 19:28:29 rudybot: (require (enter! (file ("blah.ss")))) 19:28:32 rudybot: eval (enter! (file "blah.ss")) 19:28:32 offby1: error: eval:1:8: file: misuse of module-path constructor (not within, e.g., `require' or `provide') in: (file "blah.ss") 19:28:37 heh 19:28:43 http://list.cs.brown.edu/pipermail/plt-scheme/2008-February/023113.html 19:29:19 r2q2: dude. That was fixed in _February_. 19:29:27 rudybot: eval (banner) 19:29:27 offby1: ; Value: "Welcome to MzScheme v4.1.3.6 [3m], Copyright (c) 2004-2008 PLT Scheme Inc.\n" 19:29:36 rudybot: eval (define-syntaxes (ut-oh) (letrec ((test (lambda (stx) (syntax-case stx () (_ (syntax '()))))) (bust (lambda (stx) (syntax-case stx () (_ (syntax '())))))) (values test bust))) 19:29:36 r2q2: error: define-syntaxes: context (defining "ut-oh") expected 1 value, received 2 values: # # 19:29:39 Well, now it's just december ))))) 19:29:45 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-251-219.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:30:12 saccade [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 19:30:33 rudybot: eval (define-syntax (my-macro stx) (syntax-case stx () ((my-macro p) #`(... #,(dynamic-require '(file "t1.ss") (syntax->datum #'p)) ...)))) 19:30:34 r2q2: error: eval:1:67: syntax: misplaced ellipses in template at: ... in: (... uq1 ...) 19:31:20 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A0D34.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:32:47 sam_ [n=Sami__@a91-153-217-159.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 19:35:36 I give up for now. 19:36:37 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:36:44 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:37:23 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:38:47 To achieve at least a minimal success, you may start counting 1000! ) 19:41:04 By the way, does anybody know, why the scheme is called "PLT", while thi interpreter/compiler is called "MzScheme"? )) 19:43:54 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-98-115-40-111.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["aunt jemima is the devil!"] 19:44:25 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 19:54:53 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:54:58 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:55:40 quit 19:55:47 -!- dunch [n=dunch@88-111-242-248.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [] 20:03:27 Mr-Cat: I think "PLT" means "Programming Languages Team", which is the name of the research group 20:03:52 *sjamaan* could be wrong, tho 20:04:33 So, they've got some other projects, apart from mzscheme? 20:04:53 Mr-Cat, various kinds of scheme and ALGOL and even java I think in DrScheme 20:06:13 Java - you mean ProfessorJ? 20:11:29 I should have read their site's front page :P 20:15:52 Mr-Cat: yeah, I don't know either. Eli would know. 20:17:08 Anyway he keeps silent... still.. ))) 20:17:25 well, he -does- have a life outside of IRC, so I hear 20:18:03 You must be kidding )) 20:18:26 it's just an idea. 20:31:08 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:31:52 *jcowan* unvanishes, looking rather wrecked 20:32:09 dude! 20:32:17 *offby1* is saying "dude" a lot for some unknown reason 20:39:38 Dude? Dude! 20:40:38 I'm a dude 20:40:40 He's a dude 20:40:42 She's a dude 20:40:47 Cause we're all dudes hey! 20:42:03 http://ldc.upenn.edu/myl/llog/BollingDude.gif <-- All-Dudespeak cartoon 20:45:13 elibarzilay [n=eli@m075e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 20:46:38 *elibarzilay* is unavailable for answering questions. 20:46:58 -!- elibarzilay [n=eli@m075e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:47:34 please leave a message at the beep 20:48:04 jcowan: that looks about right. 21:04:13 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:20:27 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 21:22:49 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-5-38.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 21:23:17 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-62-198.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:23:21 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 21:23:29 -!- krat3r [n=krat@bl4-204-129.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:25:23 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 21:26:34 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has left #scheme 21:26:54 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@a91-153-217-159.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 21:27:04 did anyone come to a conclusion about that 21:27:17 given data = code, what's the name for "it"? 21:27:28 data is not code 21:27:37 I'm not asking that leppie 21:27:48 what IS she talking about 21:27:59 looking for a name for both data and code 21:28:02 "stuff" 21:28:03 How about `data'? 21:28:09 datum 21:28:15 I call it data already....... 21:28:15 lexemes 21:28:15 "Kevin". Good name for just about anything. 21:28:22 it's not a lexeme 21:28:23 tokens 21:28:28 What do you want a name for? 21:28:29 no this is not about parsing 21:29:11 how about syntax? 21:29:14 :p 21:29:24 yes 21:29:47 or form maybe? 21:31:06 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 21:31:27 form is almost good 21:32:01 I think I shall say figure 21:32:17 because that way I avoid any connotations from the word data 21:32:42 go with what offby1 said then :) 21:33:54 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:34:19 sam_ [n=Sami__@a91-153-217-159.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 21:34:53 inventing new terms is perilous. 21:35:07 using old terms that have distracting connotations is also perilous. 21:35:10 Life sucks. 21:35:11 i love coining new words 21:35:20 like angro 21:35:34 or annoising 21:36:34 Riastradh: has anyone done a foof-loop for R6RS? 21:37:13 R6RS broke syntax-rules? 21:38:02 no, but his code is not very R6RS friendly :) 21:38:12 why 21:38:25 he uses UPPERCASE for syntax 21:38:31 oh my god 21:38:35 R6RS is case sensitive 21:38:52 idiots 21:39:47 in R7RS they adopt pythons indentation based syntax 21:40:10 and R8RS ends up being a C specification-by-implementation 21:40:10 i was just wondering if someone has done something proper, or if my quick 'port' would be correct 21:40:30 leppie, why don't you just use R5RS 21:40:45 saves you porting anything 21:40:58 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:41:18 or I could just write a macro that downcase all symbols 21:41:27 and still be hygienic :p 21:42:12 it has funny line seperators too, that I dont think R6RS will like 21:42:15 hey leppie when did you start Scheme?a 21:42:29 pre/post R6RS? 21:42:32 about 15 months back 21:42:36 aha 21:42:45 actually just as R6RS came along 21:42:46 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 21:42:49 yeah 21:42:55 IronScheme was like R5RS for a month or 2 21:43:27 and then you noticed how much better R6RS was? 21:43:33 and then I needed a syntax system, and psyntax worked, and it provided everythign for R6RS 21:44:04 R6RS is much clearer for many of the core forms 21:45:53 letrec is a good example 21:46:52 of? 21:47:19 R6RS is very specific how it should behave 21:47:30 and R5RS isn't?? 21:47:49 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:48:15 yes, but it gets frequently implemented wrong 21:48:31 due to wording and such 21:48:43 have you read the R6RS, vixey? 21:48:52 no 21:48:56 you should 21:49:01 I'm only guessing that I don't like 21:50:02 its not very long 21:50:35 60 pages if you skip formal sematics and indexes and stuff 21:50:48 leppie, `done something proper'? 21:51:00 -!- offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:51:07 well, one that has been used and tested a bit 21:51:31 leppie, the file contains page sepators. I really can't imagine that the R6RS would choke on them. 21:52:04 i know mine is syntactically correct, but have not really tested anything 21:52:13 whats the unicode for that? 21:52:34 ... 21:52:54 U+000C, same as in ASCII. 21:52:59 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-68-50-36-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:53:59 ha! i think i have a bug in my lexer! 21:54:06 Lexer?? 21:54:44 the lexer in IronScheme 21:54:54 What place does a lexer have in a Scheme implementation? 21:56:20 for those too lazy to write a reader by hand 21:56:31 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@a91-153-217-159.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 21:56:38 Writing a lexer and a parser sounds like much more trouble to me than just writing a reader. 21:57:55 sam_ [n=Sami__@a91-153-217-159.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 21:59:19 i have written lots of lexers and parsers, i am just more used to it 21:59:58 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@a91-153-217-159.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 22:00:14 Nobody has written a reader for R6RS in R6RS? 22:00:24 ikarus has one 22:00:30 why don't you use that 22:00:37 GPL3 22:00:40 saves a lot of work 22:00:52 something bad about GPL3? 22:01:16 yes, i would have relicense all my code 22:01:18 Yes. 22:01:27 have to 22:01:47 I bet /that/ takes a lot of work 22:02:18 Yes. 22:02:25 ASau, check out sed 22:02:32 well not really, but now because you are GPL, no one can link to your library, unless they GPL too, and so the virus spreads :) 22:02:35 Can somebody explain the difference between lexer+parser and lisp reader? I've always thought that lisp reader is jast a parser returning forms 22:02:49 *just 22:02:52 leppie, so you're basically implementing scheme so that other people can write closed source programs? 22:02:59 vixey: try to relicense anything real. 22:03:07 no, thats not that point 22:03:13 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:03:27 You may write closed-sourced programs even using GPL-ed software 22:03:32 vixey, if you want to advocate free software, don't be obnoxious about it. 22:03:38 ASau, "real" here meaning, something for which it's incredibly difficult to relicense right? 22:03:46 "Real" means real. 22:03:54 For instance using classic BSD licence. 22:03:57 (As opposed, of course, to complex, or, worse, quaternion!) 22:04:02 Parts. 22:04:26 Riastradh: yes, without imaginary parts. 22:04:43 vixey: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~aghuloum/ikarus/ikarus.dev/annotate/head%3A/scheme/ikarus.reader.ss 22:04:45 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/a4f5eg 22:05:11 leepie, almost said "at least you're doing it in scheme" 22:05:31 leppie, so what are you linking to this for? 22:05:55 you asked? R6RS reader in R6RS 22:06:11 leppie, yeah I believed you when you said that ikarus had one 22:06:20 i wasnt sure :p 22:08:03 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has quit [] 22:12:18 sam_ [n=Sami__@a91-153-217-159.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 22:34:37 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:34:59 P [i=pans@83.172.50.73] has joined #scheme 22:35:25 -!- Vital303 [n=vital303@e181004177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:36:44 exexex [n=chatzill@85.96.84.55] has joined #scheme 22:37:26 -!- P [i=pans@83.172.50.73] has left #scheme 22:39:09 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 22:43:08 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@a91-153-217-159.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 22:44:45 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 22:52:28 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:56:23 -!- gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:59:22 Mr-Cat_ [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 22:59:22 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:00:10 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DD416.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:00:39 sam_ [n=Sami__@a91-153-217-159.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 23:01:05 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 23:02:28 lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.205] has joined #scheme 23:03:02 -!- Mr-Cat_ [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 23:12:13 -!- lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.205] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 23:13:33 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:13:59 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 23:16:22 gderd [n=bennett@ool-4578565e.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 23:16:40 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:22:06 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@219.140.250.250] has quit [Success] 23:23:31 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-178-89-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 23:27:15 krat3r [n=krat@bl9-246-69.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 23:27:45 -!- krat3r [n=krat@bl9-246-69.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 23:29:57 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 23:30:14 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 23:42:20 krat3r [n=krat@bl9-246-69.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 23:45:51 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 23:58:22 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-23-60.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:59:20 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["There exists an infinite set!"]