00:00:10 Then professor was stuck. :) 00:01:25 Given that the Universe may be finite, there exist foundations for such a logic. 00:02:54 ASau: huh? 00:02:58 that's more of a physics issue than anything 00:03:11 kilimanjaro: What was that site with all of the math books for russians? 00:03:22 kilimanjaro: I have to remember to book mark it this time. 00:03:45 kilimanjaro: bib.ly something 00:04:30 kilimanjaro: Arnold and his colleagues are anti-Bourbaquists. 00:04:38 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:04:43 At least they pretend to be closer to physicists. 00:04:43 ASau, v.i. arnold? 00:04:47 Yes. 00:05:34 I attended nice SRT course at IUM. 00:05:41 -!- rcy [n=rcy@S01060013102d91ee.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:05:45 moscow? 00:05:49 Yes. 00:05:53 ohh, cool 00:07:21 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:07:57 ASau, I mean, there are no circles in the universe 00:08:50 well, if you draw a circle it's not the absolutely correct shape, and it is made of ink pigments that are discrete at the atomic level 00:08:56 or chalk or whatever 00:09:16 but we think of a circle as being a reasonable abstraction for a lot of things 00:09:19 Well... I'm not mathematician, but I have strong impression, 00:09:31 that in topology there may exist many pathological cases. 00:09:46 Arnold does a lot of stuff in classical mechanics, and we all know that's not actually how reality works, it's just a useful approximation 00:10:25 In some non-euclidean geometry, pi could equal 3 exactly. 00:10:27 ASau, sure, logic breeds monsters, it's probably not worthwhile to get caught up in them 00:11:01 When I read Progogine's works (close to phil. sci.) yet, 00:11:01 I was really impressed by his anti-mechanical logic. 00:11:43 All those constructivists may be closer to understand of causal nature. 00:11:50 arquebus [n=opera@201.160.15.70.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #scheme 00:12:02 Thus the biggest part of math. may be irrelevant. 00:12:40 Constructivist math. is way harder, hence it is less developed. 00:13:38 constructivism still leaves stuff out 00:13:40 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-114-134.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 00:13:47 There's a nice philosophical paradox about existence of undiscovered. 00:14:10 It uncovers drawbacks in "tertium non datur". 00:15:20 I don't assert that constructive logic is the only one good or is good at all. 00:16:05 Sure, there're conditions for classical logic to be successful. 00:16:44 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:16:59 But there's enough evidence, that it fails to reflect the reality sometimes. 00:17:15 but most often math isn't produced to reflect reality 00:17:19 E.g. if you consider time as reality. 00:17:20 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:17:33 That's not true. 00:17:56 Sure, there's some freedom, when math starts developing its own problems. 00:18:23 OTOH, mathematicians get paid to work on real tasks. 00:19:16 most of them get paid to work on mathematics problems that are completely isolated from reality, and leave the rest to physicists 00:19:19 Like Bogoljubov worked with gas dynamics or Lorentz with weather forecasting. 00:19:52 Physisists and chemists work on quite different problems. 00:19:58 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:20:03 There's enough space. :) 00:20:22 ASau, how much of number theory would you consider to be physically motivated? You can make artificial connections to reality, but the motivation is to understand properties of numbers 00:21:42 kilimanjaro: I support point of view that all mathematics is motivated physically. 00:21:46 Even number theory. 00:22:11 Numbers (natural) exists because there are borders in matter. 00:22:15 i'm not talking about some mathematical-philosophical ideal, i'm just claiming that for all practical purposes, most mathematicians choose algebra over reality, and while they are happy if their work is useful to others, that's not always the motivation 00:22:59 ASau, what is a computer program? Could computer programs exist without computers? 00:23:17 Like I told above, while some part of mathematicians may solve unrelated problems, most of them solve practical ones. 00:23:20 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133115102.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:23:32 Why you think, computers exist? ;) 00:23:34 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:23:52 kilimanjaro: scheme/lisp is based on lambda caluculus, so programming did come before computers existed 00:24:13 arquebus: who was the first programmer and when did she live? 00:24:20 arquebus, yes, the goal was to get ASau to concede that his philosophy is flawed 00:24:31 ada lovless born 1810 00:24:41 kilimanjaro: what was the first program about? ;) 00:24:46 s/lovless/lovelace/, thank you 00:25:16 ASau, there have been algorithms for a long time, I won't even speculate about the first 00:25:17 What were first programs in new era? 00:25:44 Those algorithms were about same practical problems. 00:25:45 ASau, are you a math student? 00:25:48 you could call the sieve of eratosthenes a program 00:25:53 in which case... yeah 00:25:56 Asau- turning machine and lambda calculus are both programming languages, and they prove what is/is not computable 00:25:58 kilimanjaro: No, I told earlier. 00:26:14 arquebus: wrong. 00:26:15 Ada Lovelace was the first programmer with access to a computer though 00:26:40 First programs in new era were all about ballistics. 00:27:04 You can find who was e.g. Grace Hopper. 00:27:22 ozy-Babages first computing machine was just a fancy adding machine, so Ada loveless added routines that allowed it to do calculations beyond what it was designed for 00:27:35 ASau, I'm not talking about ideals here, I'm saying that the bottom line is mathematicians generally produce mathematics, and most are so specialized in their expertise that the connection with reality is tenuous at best. Somewhere down the road it might get applied, but it might not, and that's not the point. 00:28:07 Knot theory was initiated in the 19th century as part of an alternative model of physics, and when the physical theory was experimentally confirmed to be bullshit, mathematicians kept on studying knots for fun 00:28:09 just in the same way that you can only do adding in assembly, you have to add to do multiplication and all other math 00:28:33 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 00:28:33 kilimanjaro: the well developed knowledge-production pyramid is there. 00:28:52 kilimanjaro: it still doesn't mean there's no foundation behind it. 00:29:31 Alright, I'm leaving you, it is too late here. 00:29:38 I should have some sleep. 00:31:31 -!- arquebus [n=opera@201.160.15.70.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has left #scheme 00:42:32 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-070-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:47:49 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-152.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:53:40 -!- Guest54772 [n=mike@dslb-088-067-019-223.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:11:14 -!- Def [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:11:30 Deformative [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:11:44 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:22:52 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:24:27 rcy [n=rcy@S01060018f8709e19.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 01:30:52 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:37:38 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit ["brb"] 01:43:28 underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:50:52 higepon676 [n=taro@218-223-22-146.bitcat.net] has joined #scheme 01:54:03 -!- rcy [n=rcy@S01060018f8709e19.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:54:35 seth [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 01:55:35 -!- set3 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:59:08 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-68-50-36-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:08:11 underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:09:03 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:09:03 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFDC54.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:09:22 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE675.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 02:12:04 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:19:04 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:19:36 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Client Quit] 02:20:00 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme 02:28:39 rotty: ping 02:29:12 offby1: ping 02:31:22 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 02:31:31 ... 02:31:51 "brb" == 53 minutes when what you're doing is a simple OS X software update :( 02:33:22 No need for such brbs when you're IRCing in VNC. 02:34:29 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:40:17 ... screen would work just as well in that case. 02:40:45 No, not for all values of "that". 02:41:12 Oh, Merry Christmas to all you heathens with your fancy-shmancy leap-year rules! 03:09:11 eli: semi-pong: listening to "Fresh Air" 03:11:28 offby1: sorry for the late response. The solution is not 39733. It is 38078 03:13:17 so, folks, I want to teach a computer-savvy friend how to program, but apparently she was a lisp hacker in a past life and is terrified that learning scheme will mess up the space-time continuum 03:14:53 anyone know a similarly straightforward (but less lispy) language to recommend? 03:16:22 ML 03:17:24 Static typing, no parens, but flexible and very straightforward. 03:17:53 Forth is good too, but is rather low-level. 03:18:05 low-level is actually probably a good thing 03:18:30 my next choice was going to be C but the standard library is despicable 03:18:42 (no decent string handling) 03:18:49 (among other complaints) 03:19:22 There are very few languages you could call "straightforward." 03:21:10 I know 03:21:15 that's the dilemma, really 03:22:23 ozy`: haskell 03:22:27 ozy`: no wait 03:22:29 No! 03:22:35 ozy`: kill me. I deserve death for recommending that. 03:24:46 synx: if she was a mathematician rather than a linux enthusiast, I might 03:25:06 Of general purpose languages with actively maintained implementations, I can't think of anything other than Scheme, ML and Forth. 03:26:12 yeah they teach you Haskell in math classes, but they call it "piecewise-functions" to disguise their Haskelly agenda. 03:26:46 My vote is for Forth. "Concatenative" languages are pretty neat, and if they had a decent implementation would be kind of useful. 03:30:13 http://zwizwa.be/staapl/ heh heh 03:50:05 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE675.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:00:47 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180067033.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:02:59 elmex [n=elmex@e180067161.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:10:50 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:11:45 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:27:48 -!- sam___ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 04:33:41 set1 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 04:34:18 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133115102.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 04:38:44 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:41:46 -!- seth [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:43:00 underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:44:34 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 04:46:34 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:50:42 What is the best sheme compiler for Mac? 04:51:32 seth [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 04:55:38 Heooo_ [n=Heooo@e212-246-70-123.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 04:57:36 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:57:57 foof, synx: thanks guys, I'll go ahead and learn forth, I guess :p 04:58:06 (so I can teach it to someone else x_x) 04:58:57 Heooo: chicken is pretty decent, I guess 04:59:53 careful Factor is a gawdawful implementation. Takes like 5 minutes to compile support for hello world and then doesn't save that compilation. 05:00:28 yeah I tried to use it a couple days ago 05:00:35 gave up and killed the process 05:01:55 Forth itself is strongly typed, which is really bad for a learning language... 05:02:25 I haven't managed to find out how to compile Joy yet. 05:02:45 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:08:41 -!- set1 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:10:32 -!- Heooo [n=Heooo@e212-246-70-123.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:12:09 synx: does it have type inference? 05:13:19 Heooo [n=Heooo@e212-246-70-123.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 05:16:14 Forth? 05:16:19 Strong typed? 05:16:41 Well... 05:17:22 you know I might be wrong there... 05:17:48 Scheme is way more strong typed than Forth. 05:18:37 ok> ' + 2 * . 05:18:37 1998612584 ok> 05:19:09 Multiplying execution token by 2 right off the top of my head. 05:19:40 my bad then, maybe Forth would be best to use. I thought it had the sort of thing where you had to declare a variable as the size of an integer, or something. 05:20:37 There's no "size of integer" conception. 05:21:10 There're uniform cells and "integer of cell size". 05:22:19 In my experience schemers write awful Forth. 05:22:25 *synx* nods 05:28:46 -!- Heooo_ [n=Heooo@e212-246-70-123.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:31:27 krat3r [n=krat@bl4-164-7.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 05:31:33 -!- Heooo [n=Heooo@e212-246-70-123.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has left #scheme 05:34:09 ??? 05:34:18 Forth isn't typed at all... 05:34:19 What? 05:34:56 Oh, that depends on dialect. 05:35:13 "Harvard architecture" Forth is typed. 05:35:46 ANS Forth has 2 types, one of them optional. 05:37:04 Does "Harvard architecture" allow 05:37:06 42 s" 42" + 05:37:08 ? 05:37:28 Yes. 05:37:38 OK, that's what I call untyped :) 05:37:45 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 05:37:46 (not that that's a bad thing) 05:38:14 If your implementation converts "3.14" to float point, 05:38:34 "3.14e0" rather, 05:38:35 Wait, bad example, perhaps... 05:38:45 42 s" xyzzy" + 05:38:51 "3.14e0 1 +" means a bit different thing. 05:39:21 You're bringing wrong example. 05:40:12 You should operate with execution tokens and return stack to reach another type. 05:40:35 E.g. float point stack gives you another reality. 05:40:39 Yes, but that's all manual. 05:41:04 My point is that neither the language nor the values themselves have any associated type - you do exactly what you want with the bit representations. 05:41:15 You have to convert manually to and from f.p.n. 05:41:55 You can do, but you may not, if you want to stay cross-platform. 05:42:21 I'm running away. 05:42:40 See you in a while. 05:48:24 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:52:15 is it posssible to write functions taht return macros? 05:52:44 hmm, let's try this. Scheme is lame. I can't write functions that return macros. 05:58:31 hml: macros in scheme are too free-form for that, aren't they? 06:00:09 huh? 06:00:38 Macros in Scheme are too awesome for that, aren't they? 06:01:28 rudybot: eval ((lambda (pizza define) "pizza") 'pizza 'notamacro) 06:01:29 ozy`: ; Value: "pizza" 06:02:29 if this makes sense at all, this is what I want: 06:02:32 (define (create-logger func) (define-macro (log . cmds) ,(func (format #f ,@cmds))) log) 06:02:49 rudybot: eval (+ 2 2) 06:02:49 Raynes: ; Value: 4 06:02:52 :D 06:08:58 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 06:09:55 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 06:16:02 -!- bsmntbombdood is now known as bsmntbombgirl 06:18:01 hml: You want a macro that defines a macro, which is quite common. 06:19:43 foof: I for one would rather have a macro equivalent of lambda 06:20:44 (define lambda (macro (params body) ...)) 06:20:46 foof: but I can't create a function that defines a macro? I would think no: the args to the function would be evaluated immediately ... but that's okay, because what I care about is what the function returns 06:20:47 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-6-254.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 06:23:05 hml: You can define a function that creates a macro definition as an sexp (or syntax object). But to be able to use it at compile time, you need to have a macro call that function. 06:24:27 i buy this argument. in a compiled scheme, it's unreasonable to ask run time, have the compiler create a new macro _and_ use that macro & call the compiler 06:25:10 foof: in a interpted scheme, this shouldn't be a problem; or is there some other reason this can't work? 06:31:13 hml: You can create whatever the hell you want in any Scheme whatsoever. 06:31:51 But to bind something as a macro in the top-level environment, you need to use define-syntax, even in an interpreted Scheme. 06:33:53 foof: what about in, say, a let clause? 06:33:54 Although, granted, some implementations will allow (define name expr), and if expr happens to evaluate to a macro, name will work as the same macro. 06:35:01 ozy`: You want (let ((name expr)) body ...), and if expr happens to expand to a macro, body should be expanded with that macro bound to name? 06:35:26 exactly 06:35:49 That's way too ill defined, and won't work in any Scheme. 06:36:04 That's why we have let-syntax. 06:36:44 ... which _will_ allow you to compute arbitrary macros. 06:37:30 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-7-185.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:39:18 foof: looks like it's time for me to write my own lisp :) 06:40:56 ozy`: Why? What about the semantics I just described don't you like? 06:52:27 foof: just that macros and functions don't share all the same exact constructs and metaphors 06:53:35 I want to write a lisp where that's the case 06:53:57 The only difference is you need to know at compile time what is a macro and what is a function. This is precisely because the compiler needs to know this at compile time! 06:54:03 There's really no way around that. 06:54:41 right, so the underlying semantics of how macros are stored and how functions are stored have to be different 06:54:57 that doesn't have to extend to the syntax used, though 06:55:02 It has nothing to do with how they're stored, but with how they're used. They're stored the same way. 06:55:40 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 06:55:43 You *could* tell the compiler to delay all compilation and re-compile every expression every time it's encountered, but that would be insanely slow. 06:56:36 In a compiled scheme, I think you just have to minimize the use of eval, which requires recompiling/interpreting and loses the benefits of it being compiled. 06:57:21 For example, consider (define (reverse ls) (let lp ((ls ls) (res '())) (if (pair? ls) (lp (cdr ls) (cons (car ls) res)) res))) 06:57:43 Now, in every step through the loop, both `ls' and `res' are bound to new values. 06:58:10 Either of those values could be macros (though the compiler might be able to prove `res' won't be). 06:58:45 So on every step of the loop, the compiler has to look at `ls' and `res', determine what type of object they are, and re-expand the loop body accordingly. 06:59:19 i.e. it's not just a matter of delaying compilation until runtime, but of re-compiling for every single binding every single time it occurs. 06:59:26 SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW! 07:00:26 hmm, this can be alleviated with type inference 07:01:51 But not eliminated, and it's a lot of work. 07:02:10 The nature of Scheme means most types are going to be objects. 07:02:58 I mean, the `object' union of all types, which may or may not be a macro. 07:04:22 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit ["brb"] 07:08:00 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-132-196.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 07:08:38 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:08:51 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:11:56 You can have a list of macro definitions? 07:12:02 oh he's gone 07:15:05 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 07:16:35 foof [n=user@clair08.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 07:27:01 synx: you didn't try in vein to tab-complete his name? 07:27:28 vain* 07:42:31 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:46:17 I was thinking about skipping XSL altogether and translating an XML doc by MAPping its SXML representation; any objections? 07:46:45 i think this is a case of, "we'll do it live" 07:48:04 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-18-127.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 07:49:53 incubot: (define call/cc call-with-current-continuation) (let* ((yin ((lambda (y) (newline) y) (call/cc call/cc))) (yang ((lambda (y) (write-char #\*) y) (call/cc call/cc)))) (yin yang)) 07:49:55 Eval 18702 timed out. 07:56:07 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-6-254.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:01:00 oh, nice; there's an SXSLT; thanks, oleg 08:05:12 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:05:22 it's amazing how much more tolerable XML is with the S- prefix; it's almost enjoyable to work with 08:13:01 yip :) 08:25:50 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 08:30:15 leppie: i almost pity the java-nibelungen laboring away in their verbose XML-catacombs 08:30:59 "" + 500 + ""; 08:31:03 :) 08:31:04 heh 08:31:22 vs `(foo ,500) 08:32:29 no what you want is: import($_GET["page"]); sql_submit("DROP TABLE " + $page_num); 08:33:18 111110100 = 500 08:34:41 ultra portable :p 08:35:05 exactly what xml was designed for 08:35:18 heh; endian-free, too 08:35:19 xml should never be written by hand 08:35:48 unless you are a web monkey :) 08:35:52 leppie: mapbe in that sense it's perl's complement; whereas perl is WO, xml is RO 08:35:53 xml should never be written 08:36:21 xml should be CAST INTO THE FIRES OF HELL and there will be much gnashing of teeth 08:36:43 koning_robot: that's what i thought; but then what's the point of docbook: just an intermediate? 08:37:04 it's seems like people actually write docbook by hand 08:38:01 i know... i tried to do so once because it seemed like a good idea 08:38:09 there is no good tool for docbook :( 08:38:18 then i almost drowned in the soup and someone had to throw me a rope 08:38:18 vixey: my company is stuck in the 90s, where xml was still cool; i'm going to punish them with a little SXSLT in chicken 08:38:25 *rmrfchik* tried several, all sucks 08:38:36 XML -- as cool as smoking? 08:38:42 rmrfchik: tool, as in gui? 08:38:47 klutometis: yes 08:40:19 vixey: cool as in bill gates posing for teen beat: http://uploads.neowin.net/forum/post-59416-1105987532.jpg 08:40:38 ...just love that image 08:40:47 (just look at cambridge in the background) 08:40:56 he looks as tired as me 08:41:02 no shit 08:42:26 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:51:31 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:59:59 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-24-204.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 09:01:28 I'm bored 09:01:43 any new evil schemes 09:04:00 -!- glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.100] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:04:02 google for pyramid scheme :p 09:04:48 glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has joined #scheme 09:11:04 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 09:18:52 -!- higepon676 [n=taro@218-223-22-146.bitcat.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:19:54 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 09:19:55 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-24-204.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:27:46 ejs [n=eugen@92.49.239.57] has joined #scheme 09:28:59 I smell the brewing of a new, evil scheme. 09:29:13 yeah? 09:29:28 good! 09:29:38 Evil Scheme v0.1 09:29:53 I'm using the good cauldron this time 09:39:39 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:45:24 jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has joined #scheme 09:50:57 XML is just s-expressions reinvented and poorly implemented, isn't it? 09:51:16 i'm always amazed how the world's dumbasses are always throwing away 40 years of progress 09:52:07 like lisp's beautiful data/code union 09:53:01 i've been suffering from xml-induced nausea for about 21 days; but now Oleg Kiselyov has manumitted me 09:53:10 incubot: i nominate Oleg Kiselyov to the office of demi-god 09:53:13 There is an old Theodore Sturgeon short story (kinda know Hugo?) very similar to that. He invents a small world in a lab, but time is so accelerated that in a matter of days primitive life evolves to demi-gods, complete with FTL ship, while he watches them via a microscope. 09:53:32 if data = code, then what is it called? 09:53:40 I don't want to call it data, and I don't want to call it code 09:54:52 vixey: good question; expression? 09:55:08 i was trying to search for an elegant mccarthyism on the subject, but couldn't find one 09:55:43 -!- drdo``` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:57:25 McCarthyism is taken for a very different purpose. How about Von Neumanism? 09:58:14 jso: heh; was trying to figure out a way to disambiguate that 09:58:37 Meh. I misread that. But, yeah, I still opt for calling them something like a Von Neumann expression or something. 10:01:05 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92.49.239.57] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:02:01 Actually somewhat related: Anyone know of a good object oriented scheme? I'm thinking something that is very similar to Smalltalk, but Smalltalk is missing a few features I *need* for a project I'm going to be working on soon, such as (eval somelist). 10:02:37 jso, got something against Common Lisp? 10:02:57 best object system this side of alpha centauri 10:04:01 Sorta. When I wandered down this path that was the first place I looked, and I passed on it. I don't recall exactly why. Lemme pull out my Keene book... 10:06:15 Oh yeah! I recall a couple years back I was trying to develop a nice matrix class and implement it in such a way that (+ m1 m2) would work. I managed to do it, but it involved doing retarded stuff in the LISP-USER package. I asked #lisp if there was a better way and they kinda acted like naming a function '+ was retarded. 10:07:03 jso, you should not fuck with LISP-USER like that, define a *new* package and you can use the + symbol for anything you want 10:07:23 Ideally I'd like to see something (+ x y) sends the + message to x with argument y. If x handles '+ then it does what is expected, and if not it raises and exception. 10:07:37 that's easily doable using CLOS and what I just suggested 10:07:49 Yeah, however, when you get all silly with (+ 1 2) I kept getting bit. It would complain about not being MATRIX. 10:08:03 Right, I _did_ have it in my own package. 10:08:05 that's a bug in your program, not a problem with common lisp :P 10:09:56 I'll reexamine CLOS, then. 10:11:03 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 10:14:04 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE675.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:14:51 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 10:16:08 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:16:30 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 10:17:39 -!- jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:31:39 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-066-235-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 10:31:53 -!- mike [n=mike@dslb-088-066-235-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:32:31 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-066-235-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 10:32:59 -!- mike is now known as Guest97783 10:39:32 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1FEB.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:42:19 xah_lee [n=x_a_h@c-76-102-50-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:42:26 what's scheme's print or message? 10:42:40 basically i want to print a list 10:43:40 xah_lee, DISPLAY 10:45:02 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@249.Red-81-39-160.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #scheme 11:04:00 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-053-165.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 11:05:05 vixey: thx 11:17:14 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:32:37 benny [n=benny@i577A20FA.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 11:40:24 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 11:46:24 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 12:04:21 underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:19:09 Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-105-3-162.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 12:44:31 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:45:29 ooh, drscheme has a christmas easter egg 12:48:44 underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:02:33 -!- Guest97783 [n=mike@dslb-088-066-235-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:02:43 underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:04:22 underspecified__ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:24:32 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B056FF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:26:10 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:27:25 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:30:04 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:30:31 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:49:08 -!- underspecified__ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:49:54 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:59:35 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 14:04:49 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-43-206.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 14:08:05 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 14:16:06 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-064-144-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 14:16:35 -!- mike is now known as Guest18999 14:20:00 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 14:20:42 tizoc__ [n=user@r190-135-34-246.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 14:21:51 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-18-127.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:24:09 KucukMubasir [n=Halliday@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has joined #scheme 14:24:54 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:26:21 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B056FF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:29:38 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-43-206.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:29:49 *rotty* has troubles with R6RS/PLT and macros 14:29:57 lisppaste: url? 14:29:57 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 14:34:12 dsmith [i=xfso8vdw@cpe-71-74-230-225.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 14:34:58 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 14:35:12 rotty pasted "R6RS macrology -- mzscheme fail" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72641 14:35:32 this works fine in Ikarus 14:37:00 brb 14:37:05 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:39:23 not this again! ;P 14:39:47 leppie: Known issue? 14:40:39 hehe, you did not follow the thread on comp.lang.scheme a month or 2 back, did you? 14:40:54 *sjamaan* doesn't follow cls at all 14:41:16 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.scheme/browse_thread/thread/8927053ede92fd27# 14:41:17 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/9t8hwy 14:41:20 180 msgs 14:41:27 heh 14:41:50 -!- eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-132-196.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 14:41:55 eli and aziz and andre and will having a go at eachother :p 14:42:19 heh 14:42:52 funny how the 3 main R6RS implementatations does this differetnly 14:43:40 It's kinda telling, isn't it? 14:44:22 rotty: i dont think foo should be imported at expand level 14:44:45 unless you are planning calling it at expand time 14:45:59 but lets concentrate on the useless error message, what identifier is unbound? .... 14:46:52 rotty: do you need to run (foo) at expand time? 14:47:00 leppie: 'define', if I read that correctly 14:47:20 i interpret that is asome variable IN define 14:47:56 if you define foo as define-syntax it should work 14:48:27 leppie: I think so, as I want the expansion of 'def' depend on the result of evaluating (foo) 14:48:48 *rotty* tries that 14:48:59 try: (define-syntax foo (lambda (x) '((a . 1) (b . 2)))) 14:49:29 you may have to make that syntax instead 14:50:01 i dont understand how it run correctly in ikarus though 14:50:54 ooo i see what you doing 14:50:55 ! 14:51:16 leppie: same error message with (define-syntax foo ... #''((a . 1) ...)) 14:51:32 bar-definer should be define-syntax too 14:51:51 hmm, i dunno 14:52:21 I don't understand why this is needed -- can't I define macro transformer procedures as plain functions? 14:52:29 what happens when you just import bar and foo normally, without for expand? 14:53:24 leppie: test.scm:7:20: compile: unbound identifier in module (transformer environment) in: bar-definer 14:53:37 eek! 14:53:40 that's obvious to me 14:54:06 ok i know understand :) 14:54:46 maybe it's a bug 14:55:12 hmm, I'll write a mail to the PLT list 14:55:35 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable027.191-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:58:48 -!- Guest18999 [n=mike@dslb-088-064-144-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:59:45 sam___ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 15:10:10 -!- tizoc__ [n=user@r190-135-34-246.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:16:23 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:17:00 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-17-128.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 15:31:12 underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:35:42 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 15:38:57 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:40:11 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 15:46:30 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:50:25 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:50:40 ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 16:00:23 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:02:37 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 16:14:03 underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:20:27 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-17-128.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:21:07 bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable027.191-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:24:09 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 16:26:10 -!- foof [n=user@clair08.naist.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:27:16 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-49-140.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 16:27:40 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:27:58 underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:32:43 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:33:40 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 16:34:52 underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:35:40 incubot: 2 plus 2 equals? 16:35:42 could I not just subtract the length of the two lists and see if it equals 1? 16:37:10 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:37:27 underspecified__ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:39:17 tjafk [n=timj@e176212022.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 16:40:37 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:44:17 underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:45:06 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:46:31 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 16:53:44 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:59:48 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:00:45 -!- underspecified__ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:02:38 underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:05:30 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:05:41 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-12-101.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 17:12:32 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:15:29 tizoc__ [n=user@r190-135-19-197.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 17:15:39 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-49-140.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:20:00 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 17:21:03 ejs [n=eugen@92.49.235.181] has joined #scheme 17:21:46 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 17:25:38 pavelludiq [n=pavellud@87.246.14.26] has joined #scheme 17:27:09 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92.49.235.181] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:27:30 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-12-101.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:31:11 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-12-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 17:33:00 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:40:53 -!- bsmntbombgirl [n=gavin@97-118-114-134.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:41:35 bsmntbombgirl [n=gavin@97-118-133-165.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 17:41:40 -!- tizoc__ [n=user@r190-135-19-197.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:42:10 mejja [n=root@c-3fb7e455.44-2195-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 17:46:14 do re mi 17:52:01 -!- bsmntbombgirl is now known as bsmntbombdood 17:53:15 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:53:36 ejs [n=eugen@92.49.235.181] has joined #scheme 17:56:13 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-45-141.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 18:04:53 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-54.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 18:07:13 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-12-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:08:29 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:10:11 -!- mejja [n=root@c-3fb7e455.44-2195-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["don't drink and irc"] 18:11:08 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 18:13:29 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-53-43.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 18:15:30 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:19:29 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-053-165.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:22:52 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-45-141.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:25:38 underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:28:31 underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:33:30 exexex [n=chatzill@85.97.2.113] has joined #scheme 18:34:48 underspecified__ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:39:00 Merry Newtonmas everyone 18:47:59 -!- underspecified__ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:48:46 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:51:07 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:51:47 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-27-12.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 18:55:08 barney [n=bernhard@p549A24ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:02:48 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-53-43.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:05:36 Heaux heaux heaux 19:10:34 underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:10:42 mainzelM [n=gasbichl@abbruchco.de] has joined #scheme 19:11:27 underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:15:19 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:17:30 underspecified__ [n=eric@c-68-50-36-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:18:01 -!- sam___ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:18:48 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 19:19:20 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:19:42 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:21:03 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 19:21:29 duaneb [i=45cd3b57@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ceac6542a8da8d24] has joined #scheme 19:21:33 hi people 19:21:50 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:21:50 where is the spot in the r6rs spec where it talks about number literals? 19:23:02 heck, I dunno 19:23:05 Let Me Google That For You 19:23:30 Writing your own "read" ? 19:23:44 something like that 19:23:48 -!- mainzelM [n=gasbichl@abbruchco.de] has left #scheme 19:23:52 I'm writing a scheme compiler in haskell 19:23:57 and I'm fleshing out my read 19:24:14 I've found it in the r5rs spec 19:24:24 but r6rs doesn't appear to have a section on it.... 19:25:08 I assume it's in there somewhere 19:25:10 what are you looking for? 19:25:34 number literals 19:25:40 and the formate thereof 19:25:42 they are there 19:26:05 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-47-159.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 19:26:20 4.2.8 19:27:21 http://www.r6rs.org/final/html/r6rs/r6rs-Z-H-7.html#node_sec_4.2.8, then scroll up for the 'formal account' of numbers 19:27:32 in 4.2.1 19:27:46 thanks much 19:27:51 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:28:47 http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=r6rs+numbers+formal+account 19:28:58 much better interface to the same info :-) 19:31:15 yes, but notice that I never would have googled 'formal account' 19:31:53 offby1: and in any case, that's just a copy/paste from r5rs 19:31:55 but thanks :) 19:31:56 i used a yacc style parser to read numbers, that worked quite well 19:32:04 using parsec 19:32:07 parsec is awesome 19:33:14 https://ironscheme.svn.codeplex.com/svn/IronScheme/IronScheme/Compiler/NumberParser.y 19:33:15 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/8rrq26 19:33:25 -!- seth [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:33:25 my first attempt was a joke :p 19:33:44 -!- koning_robot [n=aap@dhcp-077-248-142-146.chello.nl] has left #scheme 19:35:25 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-27-12.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:36:55 duaneb: I never would have googled it either :) 19:37:40 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:39:46 [11:32] 19:40:12 ha, saved again by my accidental-paste-preventer (the cat stepped on the kb) 19:40:23 lol 19:40:57 its sometime funny to find what your cat typed overnight 19:42:23 hehe 19:52:39 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-228-54.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 19:53:37 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:56:13 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92.49.235.181] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:56:37 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:02:19 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-217-174.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- rotty [n=rotty@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-54.dsl.look.ca] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- dsmith [i=xfso8vdw@cpe-71-74-230-225.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180067161.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- heat [i=dima@66.160.171.42] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- maxote [n=mevoypro@84.79.67.254] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:19 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-170-46-wfor-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- inhortte [i=polaris@fucksheep.org] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- levi [n=user@levi.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- ricky [n=ricky@fedora/ricky] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- djjack [n=djjack@cpe-098-026-016-166.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A20FA.versanet.de] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- Raynes [i=kvirc@ACA224B1.ipt.aol.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- Elly [n=elly@unaffiliated/elly] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-108-36.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- aspect [n=aspect@64.22.124.11] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- jdev [i=jdev@panix5.panix.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:27 -!- underspecified__ [n=eric@c-68-50-36-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.97.2.113] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- duaneb [i=45cd3b57@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ceac6542a8da8d24] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- tjafk [n=timj@e176212022.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- KucukMubasir [n=Halliday@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- krat3r [n=krat@bl4-164-7.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- Deformative [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-98-115-40-111.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@219.140.250.250] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- cky [n=cky@203-211-84-191.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- tabe [n=tabe@210.188.204.133] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- pbusser2 [n=peter@82.174.238.138] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-47-159.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- mmc [n=michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- DuClare [n=duclare@a81-197-106-84.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:31 -!- wasabi_________3 [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:35 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:35 -!- peyt [n=pete@li6-11.members.linode.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:35 -!- agemo [n=jovdmeer@igwe16.vub.ac.be] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:35 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:35 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:35 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:35 -!- Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:35 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:35 -!- Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:02:35 -!- keyofnight [n=key@ec2-75-101-138-129.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:08:17 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-053-165.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 djjack [n=djjack@cpe-098-026-016-166.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 levi [n=user@levi.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 inhortte [i=polaris@fucksheep.org] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 ricky [n=ricky@fedora/ricky] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-170-46-wfor-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 pbusser2 [n=peter@82.174.238.138] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 tabe [n=tabe@210.188.204.133] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 cky [n=cky@203-211-84-191.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@219.140.250.250] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-98-115-40-111.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 Deformative [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 krat3r [n=krat@bl4-164-7.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 KucukMubasir [n=Halliday@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 tjafk [n=timj@e176212022.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 underspecified__ [n=eric@c-68-50-36-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 maxote [n=mevoypro@84.79.67.254] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 heat [i=dima@66.160.171.42] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 elmex [n=elmex@e180067161.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 dsmith [i=xfso8vdw@cpe-71-74-230-225.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-47-159.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 benny [n=benny@i577A20FA.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 Raynes [i=kvirc@ACA224B1.ipt.aol.com] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 mmc [n=michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-217-174.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-108-36.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 DuClare [n=duclare@a81-197-106-84.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 rotty [n=rotty@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 wasabi_________3 [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 Elly [n=elly@unaffiliated/elly] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 aspect [n=aspect@64.22.124.11] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 jdev [i=jdev@panix5.panix.com] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 peyt [n=pete@li6-11.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 agemo [n=jovdmeer@igwe16.vub.ac.be] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 keyofnight [n=key@ec2-75-101-138-129.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 20:15:00 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 20:15:04 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:15:43 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 20:29:14 -!- underspecified__ [n=eric@c-68-50-36-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:29:53 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-22-218.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 20:32:39 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme 20:32:54 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-228-54.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:38:08 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-47-159.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:48:10 -!- rotty [n=rotty@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:50:07 rotty [n=rotty@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 21:09:20 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:10:28 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 21:14:59 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 21:21:59 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:22:37 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 21:23:09 Does jacal work with plt scheme? 21:26:54 vasa [n=vasa@mm-172-93-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 21:28:04 I guess it supports everything that SLIB supports ( http://people.csail.mit.edu/jaffer/SLIB ) 21:28:56 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 21:31:07 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-24-175.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 21:31:41 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 21:35:03 underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:39:32 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-22-218.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:47:10 ok 21:47:43 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-55-229.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 21:49:40 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 21:50:15 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-105-3-162.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:52:17 r2q2: my hunch is: no 21:52:44 my further hunch is: it wouldn't be hard to get it to work, since I think it's pure R5RS 21:55:44 i bet you couldn't do it. 21:57:18 So, does anybody know it for sure? 21:59:41 jacal's creator? 22:01:09 Jaffer certainly doesn't track PLT's peculiarities. 22:02:43 But I would expect it to work, brought up under plt-r5rs. 22:02:58 but iirc the once time that i fought with slib it had plt installation "recipe" 22:03:00 Well, here: "http://www.mail-archive.com/info-gnu@gnu.org/msg00457.html" Jaffer says, that "JACAL ...works with Scheme implementations which support the SLIB Scheme Library". Google rules. 22:03:24 And AFAIK plt does support slib. 22:04:24 4.x might have "ruined" it. 22:08:25 arthurmaciel [n=user@201.80.20.127] has joined #scheme 22:08:27 hi there 22:08:28 wouldn't be surprised, with its immutable conses. Although I would think that, if you invoke PLT as "plt-r5rs", you'd get mutable conses 22:08:56 have anyone read The Little Schemer and could help me understand chapter 9, please? 22:10:51 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-172-93-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 22:11:16 offby1: Yea thats what I thought. I will just code my own phasors. 22:11:24 offby1: And not that kind of phasor. More like phase vectors. 22:14:01 *offby1* stares blankly 22:14:16 the only "phasor" I know is: "Set phasors to 'stun'" 22:14:33 Mr-Cat pasted "Mutable cons" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72653 22:14:35 Argggh. 22:14:44 r2q2: you asked for it :) 22:14:46 not phaser? 22:15:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phasor_(electronics) 22:15:01 _I_ don't know how it's spelled. There weren't subtitles back then. 22:15:12 Immutable cons? Do you mean that the example from above won't work in PLT. 22:15:19 correct 22:15:22 Try It And See. 22:15:24 plot hole amplification through stimulated emission of radiation. 22:15:25 Having JACAL might be enough reason to do the work to port SLIB to new-improved-PLT. From the archives, Jaffer's (understandably) flummoxed by PLT4, 22:15:29 synx: :) 22:15:43 rudybot: eval (let ((c (cons 'a 'b))) (set-car! c 'frotz) c) 22:15:43 offby1: error: reference to undefined identifier: set-car! 22:15:53 rudybot: eval (let ((c (mcons 'a 'b))) (set-mcar! c 'frotz) c) 22:15:53 offby1: ; Value: {frotz . b} 22:16:32 one step closer to set-fcar! 22:16:37 though it should be mostly making sure you're in plt-r5rs, followed by a (#%require scheme/base) to get some hidden functionality such as getenv etc. 22:16:44 offby1: Is it a PLT bug? Or a kind of feature? 22:17:12 the latter. 22:18:17 Mr-Cat: a deliberate feature. They wrote a fair bit about it in the release notes for v4. 22:18:31 Executive summary: it makes programs safer, and isn't as disruptive as you'd think 22:21:11 the existence of mcons is not a bug, right? 22:23:12 depends whom you ask :) 22:23:17 the PLT guys will tell you it's a feature 22:23:36 and since they designed the code, I think their opinion is authoritative. 22:25:36 what is applicative-order Y combinator? 22:25:41 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 22:26:14 It's Y-combinator for languages with eager evaluation 22:26:51 Where "Y f = f(Y f)" does not work 22:27:02 AFAIK 22:27:39 Mr-Cat: I´m really ignorant on this. What does that mean? Have you read The Little Schemer? 22:27:59 Are functions that generate random numbers considered impure by definition, since they don't always produce the same output in response to given input? 22:28:57 Well, Y-combinator if a function that can make recursive functions from non-recursive 22:29:30 Mr-Cat: much better. 22:30:16 bombshelter13: I'd guess so. 22:30:22 I'm not good at explaining such stuff. Here you can learn more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_combinator 22:30:28 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-24-175.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:30:42 bombshelter13: I think many of them work by mutating some global state anyway. 22:31:11 Mr-Cat: thanks for the reference. 22:31:43 arthurmaciel: I have some class notes on this that might help: http://csu660.barzilay.org/lec13.txt 22:32:06 arthurmaciel: They're (very) loosely based on the little schemer's text. 22:32:16 offby, bombshelter13: But you can implement a random-number-generator in a way, that it receives the seed as an argument 22:32:51 yeah, presumably the 'inner' function used by a random number generator would work like that 22:32:54 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A24ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:32:58 So, the generator itself would be pure, and the only impure part would be initial seed generator 22:33:00 and that core function would be pure, it seems 22:33:02 bombshelter13: *Any* function that receives no inputs must be either a constant function, or impure 22:33:56 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-204-183-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:34:00 eli: hm, that seems to make sense... 22:34:02 rcy [n=rcy@S01060013102d91ee.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 22:34:13 eli: thanks, too 22:35:43 borism [n=boris@195-50-204-183-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 22:43:13 lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.195] has joined #scheme 22:56:41 Yea porting shit usually entails getting rid of set-car! shit 22:57:59 I ported most of my crufty old stuff; it wasn't too hard 22:58:24 It isn't difficult. 22:58:31 the one killer is that a nice PLaneT package -- "htmlprag" -- never got ported. (Although foof wrote a drop-in replacement, so it's moot.) 22:58:33 I've never used set-car! at all. Am I sick? 22:58:40 At least when I tried porting some old plt libraries to 4 22:58:51 Mr-Cat: consult your veterinarian immediately 22:59:27 Mr-Cat: No. You just need a new car. 22:59:42 *offby1* slaps r2q2 upside the haid 22:59:54 http://www.instantrimshot.com/ 22:59:58 Mr-Cat: Hey! QUIT SCRATCHING THE SOFA!! 23:00:05 *offby1* throws his shoe at Mr-Cat 23:01:49 *r2q2* tazes offby1 23:02:29 *r2q2* picks up the model 271 23:03:53 offby1: Be careful who you throw shoes at. They might be president one day. 23:04:44 We haven't elected a cat yet. 23:05:07 Anyway, Mr-Cat appears to be a Russian Blue; you have to be born in the US to become President 23:05:20 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 23:13:31 saccade [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 23:15:35 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit [Client Quit] 23:17:02 -!- krat3r [n=krat@bl4-164-7.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:21:19 -!- lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.195] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 23:25:55 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:27:24 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:31:59 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 23:38:18 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 23:39:26 hml_ [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 23:39:33 -!- hml_ [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:40:00 (define-macro (case value . options) (let ((v value)) 23:40:08 (case (+ 8 9) ...) 23:40:12 in this case, v is bound to (+ 8 9), not 17 23:40:16 why? and how can I change that? 23:41:00 hmm, I need to make that (let ((v (eval value))) 23:43:15 because macros are expanded at compile-time 23:43:34 And at compile time your (+ 8 9) is not evaluated yet 23:44:00 So, your 'case' should be a function 23:45:56 Hm... anyway why don't you like (let ((v value)) ... ? 23:46:13 macros are nasty, almost impossible to get right... 23:48:19 i'm tring to implement case in terms of cond 23:51:51 anyone need extra help on their projects? 23:52:38 Hmm, is there a module that will let me define a lua environment, load lua source files, and call functions in it? 23:54:10 Debolaz: http://chicken.wiki.br/lua 23:55:22 *Debolaz* looks. 23:58:49 hml: I'm not quite familiar with clisp-style macros, but afaik, the output of define-macro should be a list of symbols, so the code below works fine and displays 17 23:58:56 Mr-Cat pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72655