00:00:02 So? 00:00:10 what is your point? 00:00:27 My point is that your point about AST size is wrong. 00:00:31 It does matter. 00:00:36 expanded AST size doesn't matter 00:00:41 are you talking about hte actualy AST or the size of the parse tree? 00:00:45 the size of the AST the programmer writes does matter 00:00:52 So? 00:01:03 Write fold definition and let's compare again. 00:01:12 (define (foldl f b l) (if (null? l) b (foldl f (f b (car l)) (cdr l)))) 00:01:21 I believe that is a correct foldl 00:01:28 it may be foldr, though; I always confuse them 00:01:45 in any case, either of them works for list summation 00:01:53 Alright. 00:01:56 no it's foldl 00:01:56 Now summation. 00:01:59 you got it right 00:02:06 vixey: yay :) 00:02:43 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:02:45 Note, that again, you have more "code points", heavier AST. 00:03:21 no, I don't, because I didn't write foldl in this instance :P 00:03:28 Ha! 00:04:04 If I use other semi-standard words, I do it at less complexity anyway: 00:04:08 I'm curious what foldl looks like in forth 00:04:12 1 2 3 4 5 5 rept + 00:04:30 Similar way. 00:04:36 that's rather inelegant, though 00:04:39 you have to pass the length in as well 00:04:42 Really? 00:04:45 does forth not have proper lists? 00:04:53 Mine does. 00:05:00 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 00:05:06 what does it look like with just the three arguments it usually takes? 00:05:12 function, base value, list 00:05:14 Can Scheme override ')'? 00:05:26 I shouldn't think so 00:05:35 ) is part of the syntax at a pretty low level 00:05:52 what does foldl look like in forth? 00:05:54 I override ":" and some other words. 00:06:16 very cool; I've never wanted to do that to scheme 00:06:36 And I need it, because of async to sync signal translation. 00:06:56 you're kind of avoiding my question about foldl though 00:09:19 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Connection reset by beer"] 00:09:42 Straightforward translation is: 00:09:42 : fold ( list a f ) pluck null? if drop nip else pluck first rot pluck execute swap recurse then ; 00:09:59 But noone does that, because loop is easier and more natural. 00:10:06 right :P 00:10:27 that was about to be my response above, when you said "Write it without fold", until I realized you were talking about compiled AST sizes 00:10:35 nobody would write it without fold, because fold is easier and more natural 00:11:19 arcfide [n=arcfide@h-66-167-71-214.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #scheme 00:13:59 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 00:19:14 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:21:29 incubot: you make me feel like a natural foldl 00:21:32 are you trying to make a joke? 00:21:40 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Network is unreachable] 00:23:34 Hey all, I have a bit of a programming curiosity on my hands. 00:24:02 Say we have some 2-d matrix adt, and we use this matrix to represent a grid for the Game of Life. 00:24:12 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-98-115-45-164.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:24:36 We want to see whether there are neighbors around a given coordinate. 00:24:50 This was a lab exercise we used for one of our classes. 00:25:05 One of the AIs and I came up with two entirely different approaches. 00:25:12 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:25:34 I used a fold over directions corresponding to the eight compass directions. 00:25:48 He did a double or triply nested named let loop. 00:26:00 He iterated over the matrix grid, basically. 00:26:08 How would you have solved the problem? 00:27:10 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 00:29:12 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless64.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Success] 00:30:35 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0568F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:30:40 3x3 filter? 00:31:57 mejja: well, you have to handle edges, too, obviously, but yeah. 00:32:10 If you created an AI capable of writing a Game of Life clone on its own, I would say you have solved the problem in the best way possible. 00:32:20 jao [n=user@172.Red-81-32-181.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 00:32:23 Kudos. 00:32:39 Sorry.... 00:32:48 AI == TA == Assistant. 00:35:02 arcfide pasted "count-neighbors for Game of Life" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72595 00:35:09 Ack... 00:35:51 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-98-115-40-111.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:36:26 Oh, okay, it came out alright. 00:36:48 -!- krat3r [n=krat@bl9-246-208.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:36:52 krat3r [n=krat@bl8-108-207.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 00:38:31 I'd do neither way. 00:38:38 Asau: How would you do it? 00:38:43 Game of Life is about array programming. 00:39:04 It is mostly "map". 00:40:34 ASau: Can you give me an example? 00:44:56 how does gambit and chicken compare? (besides termite, which i'm tempted to use) 00:45:20 arcfide: (define (n-row row) (map + (append (cdr row) '(0)) (cons 0 (drop-right row 1)))) 00:45:32 arcfide: you iterate this over rows. 00:46:18 arcfide: similar thing for columns, only you get column at once with "map +" instead of simple "+". 00:46:52 arcfide: then you add two matrices. 00:48:00 Scheme is weak at these tasks, since it has 00:48:00 a) weak array tools (because arrays are not single-linked lists); 00:48:03 b) no currying. 00:48:59 You can rewrite above expression in more symm. way: 00:49:26 (define (n-row row) (map + (append (drop row 1) '(0)) (append '(0) (drop-right row 1)))) 00:49:35 hml: In what aspects? 00:51:11 stability, bug-freeness, c ffi, debugging supporrt, hackability 00:52:10 Chicken is at major changes. 00:52:22 Chicken is better supported. 00:52:33 It is more actively developed IMO. 00:52:39 (I monitor devel lists.) 00:53:13 last time i tried 4.0, the eggs were an disaster 00:53:17 are glfw/ftgl supported now? 00:53:29 BTW, sjamaan, since you've became developer, take maintainership. ;) 00:53:41 ...become... 00:53:45 heh 00:54:07 I'm not tracking stable releases 00:54:18 Just trunk 00:54:18 You're not to. 00:54:31 You just need to package them. :) 00:54:37 hehe 00:55:14 is chicken 4 usable yet? 00:55:29 There are not many new eggs ported, if that's what you mean by 'usable' 00:55:37 is the core itself stable? 00:55:41 Yeah 00:56:12 I've been using it for months now 00:56:27 svn co https://galinha.ucpel.tche.br/svn/chicken-eggs/chicken/trunk 00:56:30 is taht chicken 4? 00:56:33 yep 00:56:40 Or rather, it will be 00:56:43 -!- NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-114.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:56:48 where is chicken 4 right now? 00:56:54 It self-identifies as chicken 4 00:57:03 There's no official release yet 00:57:14 i can't even access it? 00:57:25 |02:00| ( hml) svn co https://galinha.ucpel.tche.br/svn/chicken-eggs/chicken/trunk 00:57:31 That will get you chicken 4 00:57:39 < sjamaan> Or rather, it will be 00:57:49 In the sense that it's not released yet 00:58:05 Chicken-3.99 :D 00:58:12 yeah ;) 00:58:24 is there chicken4 documentation? 00:58:31 There is 00:58:40 online or in that directory> 00:58:44 I think it's either on the wiki (I haven't checked) or in the dir 00:59:06 There's afaik only one new chapter "Modules and macros" 01:01:12 do i need chcicken4 to compile chicken4 01:01:17 or can i compile chicken4 w/ chicken3? 01:01:26 i'm getting highlevel amcro expansion errors with 'make PLATFORM=linux' 01:01:47 Right 01:01:54 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 01:01:59 You'll need to use the bootstrap procedure described in the README 01:06:34 make PLATFORM=linux install 01:06:37 ba da dum 01:07:21 haha 01:13:49 Heooo [n=Heooo@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 01:15:30 nan8 [n=user@dslb-088-066-226-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 01:16:17 set1 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 01:19:50 -!- Heooo_ [n=Heooo@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:23:57 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:24:08 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 01:25:00 What is the button in DcScheme to get the last typed expression back? I mean the property like the arrow-up in Bash. 01:27:01 esc-p ? 01:27:17 Riastradh: ping 01:29:21 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has quit [] 01:29:51 /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lchicken 01:29:51 collect2: ld returned 1 exit status 01:29:51 make[2]: *** [setup-download.so] Error 1 01:30:00 Adamant [n=Adamant@71-83-15-2.static.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 01:30:05 urgh ... and that's on CHICKEN=./chicken-boot make PLATFORM=linux PREFIX=/usr/local 01:30:09 after doing the bootstrap step 01:30:23 sjamaan: ping ^ 01:30:44 ./csi also works; i just can't install it, lol 01:30:48 duncanm: great thanks! It is helpful :) Is this from Emacs or some other editor? 01:31:01 -!- seth [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:31:19 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-170-46-wfor-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:31:20 Heooo: yeah, in emacs, it's meta-p 01:32:01 ctrl-up and meta-p work too in DrScheme 01:33:33 good to know. Emacs seems to be almost everywhere. 01:38:49 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-170-46-wfor-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 01:39:35 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 01:42:31 Are XOR and modulo defined in Scheme? Where can I see all readily defined functions? 01:42:48 I am practising with DrScheme. 01:43:09 -!- jao [n=user@172.Red-81-32-181.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #scheme 01:46:30 Just read its fine manual 01:47:36 It has a search function too 01:48:25 (it's bitwise-xor and remainder) 01:50:07 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:50:56 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:56:20 *nan8* couldn't find bitwise-xor in the r5rs info docs 01:57:23 *nan8* found in gauche it is called logxor 01:59:12 nan8: http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-60/srfi-60.html 02:01:14 klutometis: thanks 02:02:38 klutometis: is there also a info version of ther srfi ? 02:02:54 nan8: info as in texinfo? 02:03:05 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:03:16 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 02:03:17 klutometis: yes 02:03:44 nan8: just curious, dude; i've never desired a texinfo version of anything before. what does it do for you? 02:04:14 klutometis: i prefer info documentation over html docu 02:05:04 klutometis: emacs builtin info browser is very convenient (imho) 02:05:18 nan8: try this: http://sites.google.com/site/mrcmgg/doc/srfi.tar.gz?attredirects=0 02:05:25 i'd be curious to see if it works 02:05:47 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:08:43 nan8: doesn't seem to have everything, actually 02:08:46 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:10:00 klutometis: no 02:10:49 klutometis: it seems similar to the coverage provided by the gauche info documentation 02:11:29 klutometis: but some more 02:12:59 nan8: well, listen; if you come up with your own texinfo version, you'll be filling a niche of need 02:14:13 woot, chicken4 is installed 02:14:38 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 02:14:55 Whats special about chicken 4? More meat? 02:14:59 Is it organic? 02:15:15 chicken4 is young 02:15:17 so the meat is more tender 02:15:21 chicken3 is kinda old 02:15:38 Heooo__ [n=Heooo@e212-246-70-123.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 02:15:40 i dunno about you, but for meat, young chicken takes much better 02:17:01 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFDC54.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 02:18:53 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:19:23 chicken 4 doesn't give you salmonella, because of the improved hygiene 02:21:09 Anyone installed Fluxus? 02:21:51 -!- Heooo [n=Heooo@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:22:43 klutometis: the link you provided also contains r6rs.info - really nice - thanks! (http://sites.google.com/site/mrcmgg/doc) 02:31:41 p1dzkl: syntax-case has been overthrown, or something? 02:31:46 *Fare* completes his mini-portable-pathname thingie and barfs. 02:32:05 nan8: yeah, saw that, too 02:39:36 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:40:00 klutometis: the unhygienic define-macro was thrown out 02:40:59 all built-in macros are rewritten in a hygienic way I think 02:46:45 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 02:47:34 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit [Client Quit] 02:58:39 -!- mors [n=mors@cpe-76-176-204-175.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:59:24 duncanm: poing; email! 02:59:47 mejja annotated #72593 with "flonum mumbo jumbo" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72593#1 02:59:56 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFDC54.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 03:00:42 -!- nan8 [n=user@dslb-088-066-226-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #scheme 03:01:20 mejja, just curious: how serious are you about a NaN tagging scheme? 03:04:13 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 03:08:04 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 03:08:06 nothingHappens_ [n=nothingH@12-226-78-3.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 03:12:15 superserious, of course! 03:15:29 ziggurat [n=ziggurat@pool-71-244-44-183.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:18:02 what? texinfo rocks 03:18:29 mejja, ever done any work on it? 03:18:41 mejja, or is it still merely a nifty idea waiting to be implemented? 03:19:13 chicken docs took a usability hit when we moved to the (unstructured) wiki 03:21:35 zbigniew: i hear you about wikiness in general; it can't replace disciplined docs IMO 03:22:44 *klutometis* is relieved that authorship is still a solipsistic undertaking 03:26:04 Riastradh: I have a cleaned up 64 bit port of scheme->c. It's a start. 03:26:04 well, i imagine one can still write collaborative structured docs on a wiki, it's just the current implementation that leaves something to be desired 03:27:34 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has joined #scheme 03:30:55 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 03:37:23 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:38:30 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 03:39:55 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@h-66-167-71-214.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:40:35 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 03:41:40 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has quit [] 03:42:00 klutometis: no, `unsafe!' has no similarity to the TSA. There are some *very* good reasons for using it (for example, not being able to crash rudybot). 03:43:31 rotty: ping 03:43:37 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:44:06 rudybot: unclean! 03:44:41 rudybot: eval (exit) 03:44:42 eli: error: evaluator: terminated (exited) 03:44:51 rudybot: reset 03:44:57 rudybot: eval (+ 1 2) 03:44:57 eli: error: evaluator: terminated (exited) 03:45:08 *eli* wishes that would have worked... 03:51:33 -!- glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has quit ["leaving"] 03:52:19 hey eli 03:52:46 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 03:52:47 Riastradh: was wondering if you're back in town and wanna get coffee/lunch/dinner 03:53:59 duncanm: hey back. 03:54:20 eli: i'm gonna graduate! 03:54:30 when? 03:54:35 i'm not! 03:54:35 eli: january 03:54:51 duncanm: 2009, I hope. 03:54:56 yes 03:55:06 congratulations, then. 03:55:50 rudybot: eval (+ 1 2) 03:55:50 offby1: ; Value: 3 03:56:00 rudybot: eval (kill-thread (current-thread)) 03:56:00 offby1: error: evaluator: terminated (thread-killed) 03:56:02 rudybot: eval (+ 1 2) 03:56:02 offby1: error: evaluator: terminated (thread-killed) 03:56:11 damn, I've locked myself out! 03:56:26 *eli* coughs 03:56:41 maybe I should have terminated evaluators get gc'd immediately. 03:56:47 Ya think? :-| 03:56:55 something for me to do over winter break. 03:57:06 rudybot: pretty please? 03:57:27 offby1: Well, that would be easy. There's a `sandbox-alive?' predicate for that. 03:57:30 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:57:47 You don't even need a winter break for something like that... 03:58:30 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:59:25 well, _you_ might not. 03:59:38 But I have a new bottle of gin to get through, and ... 04:00:19 it will be christmas soon as well :P 04:00:43 offby1: If you'd keep it in on svn, I could do that -- will probably take about 5 minutes. 04:01:12 *eli* wonders how come some people prefer alcohol over hacking... 04:01:18 eli: no idea :\ 04:01:19 it's an age thing 04:01:34 whaddya mean by "keep it in on svn"? 04:01:38 does it come with age or youth? 04:02:31 offby1: if it's an age thing then I'd be in the same boat... 04:02:50 elmex_ [n=elmex@e180067033.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:02:55 offby1: Well that git thing makes it difficult for me to get a copy rehack and send you a patch. 04:03:22 *gasp* 04:03:29 are you saying you don't know how to use git?! 04:03:46 git's whole purpose in life is to make it easy for you to get a copy rehack and send me a patch. 04:03:57 and it does a pretty good job of that, if I may say so. 04:03:58 I'm saying even more: I don't know how to use it, and am too lazy to do so. 04:04:03 aaaahhhh 04:04:05 fair enough 04:04:08 [I know.] 04:04:15 but I will say: it's pretty damned slick. 04:04:27 Even _I_, who is probably lazier than you, learned it purely for fun 04:04:42 Alternatively, you can tell me the quick equivalents of `svn co', `svn up', `svn diff'. 04:05:00 one moment. 04:05:27 http://git.or.cz/course/svn.html 04:05:43 "svn co" => "git clone git://github.com/offby1/rudybot.git" 04:05:48 (Hopefully in a way that doesn't involve huge stuff (like the whole repository) being kept behind my back, and doesn't force me to learn the git principles.) 04:05:49 "svn up" => "git rebase origin" 04:05:57 "svn diff" => "git format-patch origin" 04:06:10 well, dunno if I can meet those last-minute requirements. 04:06:15 "rebase origin"??? 04:06:17 You certainly -will- get the whole repository, but it's pretty small. 04:06:20 now now 04:06:39 well, "svn up" => "git pull", if you'd like. 04:06:50 Much better. 04:06:54 buncha different ways of doing it. 04:07:12 "svn ci" => "git push" 04:07:14 Do all of these commands use the CWD, and will put everything needed in it? 04:07:19 I think so. 04:07:28 c'mon, try it; it won't cost you more than a minute of unattended time 04:07:33 *offby1* pokes eli with a sitck 04:07:35 stic 04:07:39 conform! conform! 04:07:51 be like all the cool Ruby-On-Rails kids!! 04:07:52 *offby1* ducks 04:08:11 *eli* downloads 04:08:30 no, use darcs! 04:08:38 nooooooo! 04:08:57 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:08:58 note that "git format-patch" drops little patch files in the cwd, as opposed to spewing to stdout, as you'd probably expect. 04:09:41 *mejja* wishes he had a bottle of young's double chocolate Stout 04:09:49 0_o 04:09:53 mejja: that sounds dangerous 04:09:56 eli: everything except clone does. Clone creates a subdirectory I think... 04:10:02 *offby1* and Mrs Offby1 just schlepped home four bottles of Chimay 04:10:12 synx: yep 04:10:46 synx: I'm happy as long as the damage is localized to the current WD. 04:10:57 'tis 04:11:18 I tried converting the entire PLT repository to git once, but it took too long. 04:11:30 *eli* wonders what Mrs Offby1 thinks about being called "Mrs Offby1". 04:11:32 someone just converted all of Perl -- 20 years' worth 04:11:51 she thinks it's funny, as do I. 04:12:41 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 04:13:02 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:13:10 eli: well yeah, it definitely is. 04:13:31 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:13:48 is there an elegant way to achieve algebraic sum types in scheme? 04:13:56 (ideally with easy matching on the type) 04:14:02 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 04:14:23 git required subversion, which was at version 1.4.something, which messed up my 1.5.5 installation. 04:14:35 -!- ziggurat [n=ziggurat@pool-71-244-44-183.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:14:46 git required subversion wat 04:15:05 Fedora's package. 04:15:44 heh 04:15:47 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180068215.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:15:47 that's not git's fault 04:15:51 -!- elmex_ is now known as elmex 04:15:52 that's a silly package manager 04:15:55 I ran into that myself once. 04:16:00 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit [Client Quit] 04:16:13 I suspect it's because they're pulling in the subversion-to-git thing 04:16:25 I now get stuff like `svn --version' => "svn: Version mismatch in 'svn_diff': found 1.4.4, expected 1.5.5" 04:16:28 eli: anyway, just send me a patch. 04:16:46 Not so funny when I just killed the plt subversion server. 04:16:48 you don't really need ot use git. 04:18:45 Yeah I'd reinstall subversion, that sounds like a package mixup. 04:23:13 I'm trying, but still get those errors after that. 04:23:30 And `make install' showed a bunch of "skipping" warnings. 04:25:01 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 04:25:21 glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has joined #scheme 04:28:44 eli, you killed the svn server? 04:30:07 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 04:30:18 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 04:30:59 jonrafkind: Probably, I'm rebuilding svn now. 04:31:04 ok 04:33:10 eli: good man for building svn 04:34:20 zbigniew: there may be a precedent for good, structured wiki docs; but i can't name one offhand 04:37:25 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 04:38:37 *eli* curses 04:41:44 *eli* curses more 04:41:48 -!- dmoerner [n=user@ppp-71-139-23-60.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:42:31 shhhh you're scaring the children 04:44:48 klutometis: i started writing one tailored to chicken but tapered off as chicken is basically wedded to svnwiki; also svnwiki did incorporate a couple of my suggestions in an oblique way, so... 04:45:58 jonrafkind: works again. 04:46:09 confirmed 04:46:16 now pray that you didn't accidentally run svn 1.5, and upgrade your working copies 04:47:26 Nah... 04:48:11 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-10-137.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 04:51:52 -!- Heooo__ [n=Heooo@e212-246-70-123.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has left #scheme 04:53:44 offby1: "git format-patch" didn't do anything. 04:55:40 offby1: ping 04:57:16 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:57:21 offby1: In any case, "git diff" did do what I expected it to do -- the patch is at http://tmp.barzilay.org/x -- untested, but should work fine. Note the "inform" comment -- to avoid a possible "where are my bindings" confusion. 04:57:22 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-13-208.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:58:29 eli, can you check in the chat server to iplt? 05:00:40 NotYet. 05:01:33 can it be my christmas gift 05:02:05 or christmas+hannukah 05:02:06 I'm jewish, I don't give christmas gifts. 05:02:17 of course, so am I 05:02:30 I dont see what religion has to do with christmas 05:02:42 And I'm Israeli, I don't give hannukah gifts. 05:02:48 bah humbug 05:02:50 asciii [n=WinNT@211.25.195.202] has joined #scheme 05:03:16 -!- asciii [n=WinNT@211.25.195.202] has left #scheme 05:03:20 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:03:23 But perhaps he gives Chanukkah gifts.... 05:04:03 Merry solstice everyone! 05:05:12 Very merry. 05:05:20 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-23-60.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:05:51 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 05:08:41 eli: Israelis don't do Hannukah? when did this start? 05:09:59 eli: howdy 05:10:15 "git format-patch" only does something once you've committed via "git commit" 05:11:09 looks right 05:11:38 Adamant: I think Hannukah only got to be a big thing because of the Christian influence in the west. It's convenient for everyone to have a big holiday at about the same time. 05:11:46 ah 05:12:13 but I thought "the leading" Israelis were mostly out of Western and Eastern Europe 05:13:15 -!- glogic [n=rm@97.76.48.100] has quit ["leaving"] 05:13:27 hey, the US celebrates St. Patrick's more than Ireland 05:13:38 glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.100] has joined #scheme 05:13:50 Adamant: Israelis don't need to over-compensate for the fact that christians kids are getting presents. 05:14:11 offby1: In any case, the patch is all I wanted to put there... 05:14:40 easy enough. 05:14:44 eli: ah. I just thought it was a really old Jewish tradition. anyway. 05:15:40 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 05:15:43 offby1: And I assume that adding a message would be easy... 05:15:44 Sorry by West I meant West, not Western Europe. 05:16:54 zbigniew: the local Irish just need to compress the 364 days of traditional Irish boozing into 1 for accounting purposes 05:17:10 the rest of us are just trying to keep up 05:17:13 Adamant: The tradition that I know about is to give money -- either very little, or in the form of those chocolate coins. It's all very modest, only in places like the US got exploded to more-than-christmas-sizes. 05:17:30 eli: ah, ok. that's reasonable 05:17:57 eli: very considerate of you not to generalize that "exploded to plus sizes" to other USian trends. 05:17:57 eli: I do see parents trying to give Christmas-level gifts on every day of the celebration, which I thought was silly 05:18:10 Daemmerung: it's a Western thing now though 05:18:18 UK and Aus are now fatter than we are 05:18:26 Adamant: God bless us every one. 05:18:46 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:19:48 (I loved the massive New World fatties in /Les Triplettes de Belleville./) 05:20:01 never heard of it 05:20:30 the english translation is '3 girls, 1 cup' 05:20:37 the French are trying to hold the line in the war against the bulge but their defenses are too much like the Maginiot Line 05:20:37 Hee. 05:22:49 Adamant: the 8x christmas thing is exactly what I was talking about. 05:23:12 Daemmerung: I can only assume that there are other similarly ridiculous places. 05:23:58 eli: be just and fear not. I am being silly. I give not a gosh-darn. 05:23:58 eli: ah. fair enough. 05:27:37 eli: do you have some sorta debugging macro in swindle ... named "p" ... echoes its (unevaluated) arguments, then prints their value, and returns it? ... Or did I imagine that 05:30:57 offby1: I do, but not in swindle. 05:31:07 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-232-22.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 05:31:09 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-232-22.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:31:34 It's part of the "interactive" hack. And it's called `***' or whatever, based on an environment variable. 05:32:54 ah 05:37:29 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:40:44 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 05:42:32 eli: thanks for the patch; works fine. 05:42:40 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has joined #scheme 05:42:57 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:50:00 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 05:57:03 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:57:45 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme 06:07:35 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-23-60.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:11:11 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:11:22 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 06:24:01 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] 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#scheme 11:18:21 -!- xvc [n=chatzill@82-69-45-88.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.75.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1.12/0000000000]"] 11:19:39 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-9-158.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:22:19 -!- pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 11:30:02 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 11:32:48 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 11:33:42 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 11:37:12 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-152.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 11:41:17 xwl [n=user@221.221.157.194] has joined #scheme 11:41:50 eli: pong (big round-trip time here) 11:52:10 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:54:53 benny [n=benny@i577A1FEB.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 11:59:30 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFDC54.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 11:59:43 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFDC54.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 11:59:59 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFDC54.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:13:25 sam___ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 12:35:54 Sirgado [n=tunic@188.176.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 12:37:42 hi.. I'm triying to compile fluxus, that uses Scheme, and the mzscheme3m library is need.... but I can't find that library (I mean a homepage or something where to download the spurce code) 12:38:00 Does anybody knows where I can get it? 12:38:59 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-66-177-249-13.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:41:03 that would be plt scheme 3.x i would guess, not sure if the m means something extra 12:42:14 m3 is a PLT Scheme related to MzScheme 12:42:36 Sirgado: plt-scheme.org 12:42:40 surely Google would have told you that 12:43:20 http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=mzscheme3m ;P 12:43:40 offby1: believeme not, I'm very new in Scheme... and I got into it through fluxus programa 12:43:43 thanks! 12:43:53 mine was joke hehe 12:44:11 leppie: already done :-P 12:48:30 -!- Sirgado [n=tunic@188.176.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:55:28 xwl` [n=user@221.221.150.70] has joined #scheme 13:00:12 -!- xwl [n=user@221.221.157.194] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:02:34 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:10:49 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-066-250-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 13:11:18 -!- mike is now known as Guest83933 13:15:46 -!- xwl` [n=user@221.221.150.70] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:19:22 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054F9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:19:36 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 13:30:49 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:34:30 higepon179 [n=taro@FL1-118-109-68-252.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 13:35:57 -!- higepon179 is now known as higepon 13:39:05 -!- krat3r [n=krat@bl8-108-207.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:02:45 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:02:58 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 14:05:06 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 14:05:48 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:09:51 -!- Guest83933 [n=mike@dslb-088-066-250-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:12:52 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DCB74.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 14:24:49 krat3r [n=krat@bl4-166-200.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 14:25:11 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A0860.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:38:28 PLT problem here ... I'm looking at a module that a) defines lots of values; b) says (provide (all-defined)); and c) (require (planet "memoize.ss" ("dherman" "memoize.plt" 2 1))) 14:38:29 -!- higepon [n=taro@FL1-118-109-68-252.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:38:49 the problem is: it seems to be providing all the values from that version of memoize, in addition to the stuff it defines itself ... 14:39:12 offby1: Isn't there a provide only x function? 14:39:17 ... and that sucks because if a calling program requires a _newer_ version of memoize, I see an error that says "Package memoize.plt loaded twice with multiple incompatible versions" 14:39:57 I'd like to make the module _not_ re-export the bindings from "memoize", but, short of explicitly listing all the values to provide (rather than using (all-defined)), I can't think of a way 14:40:14 r2q2: there is, but as I say, since there are so many values, it'd be tedious and error-prone to list them all 14:40:30 what I guess I want is: (provide (all-defined-except-from-stuff-I-required)) 14:40:32 or something. 14:41:05 this module is a PLaneT package, by the way; you can feel my pain by looking at http://planet.plt-scheme.org/trac/ticket/142 14:41:35 offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/guide/module-provide.html prefix out? 14:42:25 I don't see how that would help 14:42:39 oh okay nevermind. 14:42:49 I could try except-out, except ... then I'd have to list all the values that memoize defines ... 14:42:50 oho 14:42:52 there's an idea: 14:43:10 only require the one or two forms from memoize that I need; list them explicitly in both the require and except-out forms ... 14:44:20 Yea I knew that page would help. 14:47:30 this is puzzling. This isn't the way I thought the module system worked 14:48:46 I'd'a thought that Mr Soegaard could "require" any damned module he wanted, and not have that affect me, the user of Soegaard's module. 14:49:06 These aren't the functions you are exporting for? 14:50:13 I don't understand your question 14:50:37 offby1: Its a joke. 14:50:43 "Star Wars"? 14:50:52 lol :p 14:50:55 offby1: Yea it isn't funny if I have to explain it nevermind. 14:51:00 .oO("These aren't the functions I'm exporting for") 14:51:07 i saw it, but wasnt sure :p 14:51:11 with me, you have to explain pretty much every Sci-Fi reference 14:51:17 Oh okay. 14:51:30 y'know I kinda suspected. 14:51:38 (lambda (x) (string-append "Happy" x "Holidays")) 14:51:51 heh 14:51:55 rudybot: eval ((lambda (x) (string-append "Happy" x "Holidays")) "FSM") 14:51:55 offby1: error: evaluator: terminated (thread-killed) 14:51:56 I mean (lambda (x) (string-append "Happy" x)) 14:52:00 crap. 14:52:08 rudybot: un-kill it already!! 14:52:09 r2q2: You forgot a space 14:52:24 *offby1* has the fix for that annoying 'bot behavior, but hasn't yet pushed it 14:52:38 Damnit. 14:59:32 Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-84-110-173-19.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 15:10:17 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:13:44 -!- sam___ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:13:45 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:14:30 sam___ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 15:33:11 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 16:00:55 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 16:07:55 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:09:49 and the next 24 hours start 16:10:27 Today is the first day of the rest of your life! 16:10:49 leppie: are you in Japan or thereabouts? 16:10:58 South Africa?! 16:11:01 It's 4PM! 16:11:03 or so. 16:11:05 isn't it? 16:11:09 It would have to be one hour off from Japan. 16:11:14 Hong Kong, maybe. 16:11:27 -!- sam___ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:11:31 perhaps leppie measures out his days based on when it's time to start drinking. 16:11:49 *offby1* is bored and hence will upgrade rudybot 16:12:01 best reason for a deployment, I always say. 16:13:38 -!- rudybot [n=luser@li11-10.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:15:01 *offby1* drums fingers 16:15:51 rudybot [n=luser@li11-10.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 16:15:59 crap. Hadda roll it back. 16:16:06 This is just like real deployments :-| 16:24:30 rudybot: eval ((lambda (x) (string-append "Happy" x "Holidays")) "FSM") 16:24:31 offby1: ; Value: "HappyFSMHolidays" 16:24:35 at least that works 16:26:15 -!- rudybot [n=luser@li11-10.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:26:23 rudybot [n=luser@li11-10.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 16:27:55 rudybot: eval (format "Happy ~a Holidays" "FSM") 16:27:56 offby1: ; Value: "Happy FSM Holidays" 16:28:04 rudybot: uptime 16:28:04 offby1: I've been up for one minute, forty-four seconds; this tcp/ip connection has been up for one minute, forty-four seconds 16:28:10 rudybot: version 16:28:10 offby1: b0296a3 16:28:21 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-070-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 16:36:53 ares [n=ares@88.231.51.129] has joined #scheme 16:38:50 -!- ares [n=ares@88.231.51.129] has left #scheme 16:44:14 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 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[n=chatzill@82-69-45-88.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:19:35 jlongster [n=user@c-98-244-73-52.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:01 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 19:22:30 is it possible to write (define (loop x) (x) (loop x)) as (define loop (lambda .....)) where ..... does not make refernece to loop ? 19:23:21 yes 19:23:53 how? 19:23:55 really? 19:24:04 do you have the time? yes? ... can you tell mee the time :-) 19:24:14 -!- pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:24:14 it's about 11:24 here 19:24:22 rudybot: eval (current-seconds) 19:24:22 offby1: ; Value: 1230146661 19:24:30 rudybot: eval (date->string (seconds->date (current-seconds))) 19:24:30 offby1: error: reference to undefined identifier: date->string 19:24:34 hm 19:24:46 rudybot: eval (require scheme/date) 19:24:47 rudybot: eval (date->string (seconds->date (current-seconds))) 19:24:48 offby1: ; Value: "Wednesday, December 24th, 2008" 19:24:51 rudybot: eval (date->string (seconds->date (current-seconds)) #t) 19:24:52 offby1: ; Value: "Wednesday, December 24th, 2008 2:24:51pm" 19:24:53 hml, read SICP 19:24:55 there ya go 19:25:00 I think that's Dallas time 19:25:50 rudybot: eval (exit) 19:25:50 offby1: error: evaluator: terminated (exited) 19:25:54 rudybot: eval (+ 2 3) 19:25:55 offby1: ; Value: 5 19:25:59 yay, thanks Eli! 19:35:08 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 19:39:09 sam____ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 19:41:02 hml: (define (foo x) (loop x)) (define loop (lambda (x) (x) (foo x))) 19:44:54 *Daemmerung* eta-reduces zbigniew 19:46:34 *zbigniew* beta-reduces your mom (to tears) 19:48:38 *zbigniew* wonders if hml's vague question is referring to an anonymous recursive function, in which case, use the Y combinator, Luke 19:51:33 I can't see "redex" without cross-checking "Fedex" to see if my wife's Christmas present is any closer. 19:51:38 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:51:57 That's cutting it awfully close. 19:52:06 Yes. Yes, it is. 19:52:51 *offby1* prepares to phone Mrs Daemmerung and spill the beans about her husband's tardiness 19:52:52 And from all appearances, my gift to myself will arrive before hers. Oh, well. It was nice knowing y'all. 19:53:07 quick! bake cookies 19:53:47 In my family we are always ordering presents that come late. It is now a routine amusement. 19:53:58 I suggest you start that tradition. 19:55:43 Perhaps she will accept my copy of Okasaki as a consolation prize. not. 19:57:25 You still have a few hours to go buy some expensive jewelry. 19:57:53 A $40,000 diamond will forgive many sins 19:58:08 is that a hint, offby1? 19:58:14 Also, if she's hep, a sports car could do it. 19:58:48 also, if she's hep, it's probably 60 years ago 19:58:55 that too 19:59:10 *offby1* has been listening to a lot of Louis Jordan lately 20:00:01 I think it's too late even for Amazon Prime to deliver expensive jewelry to my remote, snow-choked area code. 20:02:50 *zbigniew* reads about the circa-1940 transition from 'hep' to 'hip' on Wikipedia 20:03:05 seth [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 20:03:56 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:04:14 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-232-22.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:08:55 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:11:04 drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 20:13:09 *Leonidas* didn't know 'hep' was actually a word and not a type 20:13:12 Daemmerung: purely functional data structs? 20:13:13 *typo 20:15:26 -!- xvc [n=chatzill@82-69-45-88.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.75.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1.12/0000000000]"] 20:15:42 klutometis: si. A nerdly Xmas carol. 20:16:04 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-7-77.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 20:16:36 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-5-193.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:16:38 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 20:17:44 set2 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 20:18:11 sam___ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 20:18:30 proq` [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #scheme 20:19:16 -!- offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:20:31 -!- proq` [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:20:32 -!- seth [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:21:37 set3 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 20:23:15 -!- set1 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:24:17 drdo``` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 20:25:00 -!- sam____ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:25:20 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:28:07 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-9-240.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 20:28:32 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:29:57 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 20:30:10 offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 20:36:38 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:39:18 -!- drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:39:40 underspecified [n=eric@c-68-50-36-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:41:29 -!- set2 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:42:47 rcy [n=rcy@S01060013102d91ee.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 20:43:10 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-7-77.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:43:40 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-68-50-36-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:45:08 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 20:51:07 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-9-240.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:51:54 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-7-185.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 21:08:27 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:09:04 Heooo [n=Heooo@e212-246-70-123.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 21:11:44 What are the comment signs in Scheme? 21:12:01 ; 21:12:11 Like in Lisp. 21:12:16 ASau: thank you! 21:12:37 And good christmas! 21:12:56 In 2 weeks at, if at all. 21:13:13 ? 21:13:48 We don't have heretics here. :) 21:16:49 ASau: we are all of great family :P 21:17:54 Heooo: You're from another family. :p 21:19:53 ASau: lolz :D i just live here where I am, only for traditions without further meaning :) but now scheme... :P 21:21:37 what's Scheme? 21:22:09 vixey: dunno, a bunch of logical connectives that may have some meaning :) 21:22:49 why to ask? 21:23:21 incubot: What is Scheme? 21:23:24 what's the significance of double #? 21:24:34 incubot: Why do bots always answer a question with another question? 21:24:36 I can't imagine he'd be convenient, since we already have two different bots. 21:26:40 Do you want a Christmass puzzle? It is a puzzle that Java cannot do (stack overflow). 21:26:51 Daemmerung: they're antisemitic? 21:27:01 :D 21:27:20 Heooo, yes 21:28:39 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:28:51 Ok, it is in Java. If you are the quickest to give me the output, you will receive Hoorays :) right? 21:29:12 I just like puzzles 21:31:03 Daemmerung: why shouldn't a bot ... oh, ASau beat me to it 21:31:39 vixey: do you do Project Euler? 21:32:00 offby1, I'm jelous of the people that do it without having to use a computer 21:33:19 Ok, this is the puzzle: open http://pastebin.com/f39175cdd You are not allowed to do this in Java (too easy). 21:33:43 write it in scheme :) 21:33:57 I take time 21:35:59 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-24-88.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 21:36:00 that was a really rubbish puzzle Heooo 21:36:26 you just paste it into a .c file and run it......... 21:36:50 vixey: you was supposed to write it in scheme 21:37:13 homework? 21:37:22 Heooo, boring 21:37:51 what is the solution then? You can of course make harder ones :P 21:37:56 Heooo, derive a linear time way to compute the n'th fibonacci number 21:38:16 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-067-019-223.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 21:38:44 -!- mike is now known as Guest54772 21:42:04 vixey: are there really people who don't use computers for it? I assumed many of the problems required real crunching 21:49:51 Heooo: 39733 21:50:05 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 21:51:05 unfortunately, rudybot's margin is too small to contain it 21:52:44 offby1: pastebin? then, you can run vixey's problem, I am doing it in DrScheme :) 21:52:55 *try 21:53:10 I updated your paste 21:53:31 eww, now it's rainy and windy to go with the snow on the ground 21:53:32 *offby1* pouts 21:55:09 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 21:55:24 offby1: sorry cannot find it 21:57:02 Heooo: http://pastebin.com/m665e3281 21:57:11 oh, it got a new URL; I hadn't noticed 22:01:23 vasa [n=vasa@mm-172-93-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 22:05:54 -!- bsmntbombgirl [n=gavin@97-118-122-191.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:06:46 lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.222] has joined #scheme 22:06:51 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:12:53 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 22:17:35 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 22:21:56 underspecified [n=eric@c-68-50-36-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:36:10 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 22:40:27 -!- offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:47:05 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:49:55 poof 22:50:53 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:50:57 offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 22:59:05 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:59:23 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 23:02:06 -!- krat3r [n=krat@bl4-166-200.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:03:32 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-98-244-73-52.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:04:26 -!- lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.222] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 23:09:14 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:09:14 -!- Heooo [n=Heooo@e212-246-70-123.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:10:30 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-204-183-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit ["leaving"] 23:10:35 Heooo [n=Heooo@e212-246-70-123.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 23:11:03 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 23:11:20 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-204-183-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 23:12:26 oink' 23:13:46 Foo 23:15:17 krat3r [n=krat@bl4-164-7.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 23:15:44 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 23:17:37 -!- krat3r [n=krat@bl4-164-7.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 23:19:05 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-24-88.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:20:18 forcer [n=forcer@e179194055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 23:21:19 offby1: if you have the output, I can check quickly whether it is right. I may have to restart to get my Plt scheme working again. 23:24:40 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 23:30:39 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 23:31:44 AtomicToad [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 23:31:58 -!- AtomicToad [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 23:36:10 -!- forcer [n=forcer@e179194055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:37:17 Any language with first class functions could do tail recursion, right? You just add the function you want to call next to some sort of queue, instead of calling it recursively. 23:38:17 No. 23:38:47 letrec may be omitted. 23:38:55 synx: There's even decorators available that can add TCO to any function that only calls itself recursively in tail call positions 23:39:20 But that breaks in case the recursive calls are not all in tail position 23:39:48 heh decorators 23:41:22 Right. 23:41:38 You can have composition and still be unable to build Y. 23:42:28 synx: an example: http://w3future.com/weblog/2006/02/#tailCallEliminationInJavascript 23:42:52 It's a nice hack, but not really something I'd use in practice, I guess 23:42:59 synx, no 23:44:18 vixey: what 23:44:37 synx: you can have first-class functions and be unable to build recursive ones. 23:44:44 synx, pure lambda calculus is the simplest counterexample 23:44:54 vixey: wrong. 23:45:17 um, I don't really know, but okay... 23:45:20 Y combinator is expressed in lambda calculus. 23:45:28 synx, your loop calling functions on that stack -- is implemented using lambda so without TCO the stack is growing still 23:45:29 This brings recursion. 23:45:35 yeah you can do recursion with just lambdas 23:45:49 ASau, You're too fucking smart to listen to what I have to say before you pass comment 23:46:14 synx, yes but with that recursion is not TCOd, you have not emulated TCO 23:46:55 ohh I get what you're saying vixey. 23:46:59 vixey: The stack wouldn't grow; whenever the function needs to call a new function in tail position, it would return and add a new one to the list 23:47:14 It's a trampoline 23:47:24 without looping constructs, and without tail call optimization in the first place, you can't loop at all without building up a stack of junk values. 23:47:27 sjamaan, that's true but the implementation in a non TCOd lambda calculus of a trampoline is still going to grow and grow 23:47:44 vixey: Why is that? 23:47:45 sjamaan, this is why it must be implemented in java or whatever using a while loop, which you don't have in pure lambda calculus 23:48:04 Oh, in _lambda calculus_ 23:48:14 sorry 'bout that 23:48:22 sjamaan, well synx was asking in general, and this is simplest counterexample I can come up with 23:49:02 I guess that's a good counterexample, if somewhat overly theoretical 23:49:23 I think languages without TCO generally have looping constructs 23:50:56 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 23:54:26 another duality (loops <=> TCO) is lazyness <=> side effects, you can't implement lazy evaluator without SET! 23:56:01 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["There exists an infinite set!"] 23:56:06 :) 23:58:45 One professor at IUM told once, that he was talking to children, 23:58:45 explaining them at somewhat naive level set theory, logic and foundations, 23:58:45 he told them that there's finitist approach, &c &c... 23:59:19 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-172-93-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 23:59:27 And one child asked him, "You tell that for each x there exists natural n. 23:59:27 What if there's no large enough numbers?"