00:01:50 *Daemmerung* barbeques in the snow 00:02:03 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-51-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:07:29 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 00:08:37 -!- abe[G] [n=koi@ip68-225-12-32.pv.oc.cox.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:15:14 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@adsl-70-250-184-34.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:16:03 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:22:52 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 00:24:15 -!- civodul [n=user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:25:14 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:29:30 -!- evoli [n=yuhsin@GRUMPY-FUZZBALL.MIT.EDU] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:32:48 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:39:11 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:39:23 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:39:39 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:39:47 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 00:39:49 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 00:40:22 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-19-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 00:49:37 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-14-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:59:14 Fare [n=Fare@c-71-232-6-92.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:07:49 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053C57.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:10:03 -!- aneqrs [n=andreas@c83-253-104-206.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 01:10:11 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:20:10 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 01:21:09 exexex [n=chatzill@85.97.0.67] has joined #scheme 01:33:26 Daemmerung: I have done that before in the cold. 01:33:39 Daemmerung: Turn up the burner and warm yourself up. 01:35:26 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:35:46 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:45:19 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless152.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:48:57 -!- orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFBA53.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:49:08 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFBD2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 02:12:59 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:14:34 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:17:03 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-71-232-6-92.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #scheme 02:18:47 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable027.191-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 02:22:10 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:24:09 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:25:46 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:28:11 wasabi_________1 [n=wasabi@ntoska214050.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:29:13 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 02:29:43 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:40:34 -!- orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFBD2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:41:30 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 03:02:29 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.97.0.67] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:08:45 *eli* nots that Daemmerung was barbecuing *and* IRCing in the snow... 03:14:57 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["He rode off into the sunset. . ."] 03:17:44 Fare [n=Fare@c-71-232-6-92.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:22:05 eli: Notes? 03:23:54 r2q2: yeah. 03:25:23 eli: Automata theory is fun. 03:25:28 :-) 03:25:44 Some parts, at least. 03:27:13 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:48:30 *offby1* waves 03:49:21 mr bot done daid? 03:49:38 rudybot: uptime 03:49:38 offby1: I've been up for twenty-three hours, forty-seven minutes; this tcp/ip connection has been up for twenty-three hours, forty-seven minutes 03:49:45 no, mr IRC client done hosed. 03:50:34 *eli* shovels 03:50:57 you should be mopping, if things are hosed. 03:51:27 Much snowage. 03:54:34 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 04:01:23 ah. 04:01:34 Us too, but then, Seattle < Boston, I'm sure. 04:01:54 elmex_ [n=elmex@e180068100.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:07:47 arcfide [n=arcfide@h-68-165-62-43.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #scheme 04:08:19 Hey everyone, how is it going? 04:08:23 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-19-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:08:38 wasabi_________2 [n=wasabi@ntoska309205.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:09:24 underspecified [n=eric@c-68-50-36-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:09:54 Fnord. 04:10:00 wasabi_________2, having fun collecting underscores? 04:10:31 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-16-226.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 04:10:44 Maybe he is trying to make a dish for his wasabi. 04:11:01 Wondering how to minimize time spent while maximizing value. 04:12:01 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has quit [] 04:13:12 wasabi isn't very fun by itself 04:13:26 Riastradh, there's a fellow in #awk known by many as mike-of-the-many-underbars. 04:17:35 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180066028.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:17:36 -!- elmex_ is now known as elmex 04:19:15 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:20:35 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:20:42 -!- rushfan [n=rushfan@155.33.149.22] has quit ["Who do you trust when everyone's a crook? There's a revolution calling."] 04:21:45 how does one do unit-testing with mzscheme? 04:22:35 -!- maodun [n=stopgo@c-67-180-49-1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:22:55 maodun [n=stopgo@c-67-180-49-1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:23:05 -!- wasabi_________1 [n=wasabi@ntoska214050.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:24:14 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 04:26:00 Elly: Usually with schemeunit. 04:26:30 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:26:44 hm 04:26:48 it is not in portage :( 04:26:54 It's on planet. 04:27:26 http://planet.plt-scheme.org/display.ss?package=schemeunit.plt&owner=schematics 04:27:27 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/8bkclo 04:28:10 hm 04:28:22 when I say (require (planet ...)), it's actually fetching the module and storing it somewhere? o_O 04:28:39 Yes. 04:29:19 that's...creepy. 04:29:36 I know what you mean, but it's also handy 04:30:02 eli: /me (xor 'barbeque 'irc). 04:30:47 Elly: Which browser are you usually using? 04:31:06 eli: links2 04:31:06 (hint: there's no good answer, unless it's one you wrote yourself) 04:31:14 Daemmerung: That's good, sticky keyboard is not fun... 04:31:36 Elly: Are you using that to avoid caching? 04:31:42 eli: no? 04:31:49 eli: I'm using links2 because I like it 04:31:53 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:31:55 eli, links2 has a disk and a memory cache. 04:32:27 In that case, take planet's cache as something similar -- shouldn't be creepier than links2. 04:32:52 nah, the odd part is that (require (planet ...)) connects to the internet and fetches a package on my behalf 04:33:02 and I do not know what security precautions, if any, it takes 04:33:36 Elly: Same goes for a browser. 04:33:43 You're free to inspect the code, if you doubt its merits or intentions. 04:33:49 my browser is not fetching code which it will then execute immediately :P 04:33:55 (at least, I hope not) 04:33:55 Isn't it? 04:33:59 no 04:34:28 Does what is received over the network socket cause the browser to execute machine instructions? 04:34:39 not the same as arbitrary code 04:34:53 *gnomon* shrugs 04:35:02 It's in the same arena, whether or not it's playing the same game. 04:35:12 If you ph33r DNS spoofage, prefetch and examine. 04:35:18 I don't worry about it. 04:35:20 Elly: If you intentionally use a javascript-disabled browser then that's good for you. In any case, schemeunit is a contributed package -- not much you can do besides looking at the code before you run it, if you don't trust whoever wrote it. 04:35:22 Daemmerung: are the packages signed? 04:35:51 Elly, do you vet the intentions and the private-key security policies of everyone that offers up a signed source code package? 04:36:11 gnomon: I only have one code provider for my machine right now, which is the gentoo package masters 04:36:17 I'm leaving it to them 04:36:28 anything that didn't come from them runs sandboxed 04:36:38 Including PLT? 04:36:46 Think of the cache as a convenience. You are free to preload and review at your leisure. 04:37:41 gnomon: PLT usually yes, except that one time when I replaced my init with it :P 04:37:54 Elly, I'm sorry; I don't mean to be overly confrontational. I just mean that if your threat model is strict enough that pre-loading PLaneT packages worries you, then that automatically precludes a very wide swath of very common operations. 04:38:02 that still didn't have a chance to fuck with my root filesystem though 04:38:16 gnomon: nah, it's okay, my setup is difficult to deal with sometimes 04:38:19 Modulo any bugs in the sandbox system, of course. 04:38:32 the sandbox system is the linux kernel 04:38:49 I just run them under separate uid/gids and hope my kernel isn't broken :P 04:43:01 Well, FWIW, requiring planet packages will run on the same uid/gid that plt is running on -- so you're still safe. 04:56:53 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-71-232-6-92.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:03:48 wasabi_________3 [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:12:37 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 05:20:00 -!- wasabi_________2 [n=wasabi@ntoska309205.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:21:16 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 05:28:49 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 05:31:43 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:31:44 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has left #scheme 05:32:10 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 05:34:02 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 05:37:43 isomer`` [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 05:41:48 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-16-255.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 05:42:27 banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #scheme 05:42:39 hey guys is scheme/clisp a good language to write a parser in? 05:42:43 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:43:33 underspecified_ [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:44:08 -!- isomer [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:45:05 banisterfiend: yes 05:45:20 banisterfiend: the only thing I've seen that I'd rather write one in is Haskell, and that's just because of Parsec 05:45:49 banisterfiend: what are you parsing? I'm going to say a guarded yes. 05:45:53 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 05:46:03 im wanting to write a simple lisp interpreter in lisp itself 05:46:13 oh 05:46:17 then um 05:46:24 scheme or clisp is pretty much the only choice 05:46:30 hehe 05:46:40 but if your problem statement contains the desired solution language, asking which language to use is a bit foolish :P 05:46:41 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 05:47:15 i'm working on a really large project w/ emacs, git, and scheme; i'm not sure what to use for my build system; suggestions? 05:47:25 hml: `make`? 05:47:47 there's nothing 'better' ? 05:47:57 i wasn't asking if it's the right language i just wanted to know if it's particularly suited to that kind of thing ;) i.e im wanting to learn about parsing theory and i thought a project to write a lisp in lisp would be a good way to learn about it....:) out of interest do you have/know of any resources to help me out on this task? 05:48:05 banisterfiend: Check out some of plt-scheme's "languages" for how to interpret scheme in scheme. 05:48:16 banisterfiend: isn'g parsing lisp in lisp 'read' ? 05:48:18 im a bit of a lisp noob, in fact the only reason for this project is to (1) learn about parsing theory (2) get better at lisp 05:48:38 hml: yeah but the idea is actually to learn how to do it myself :) 05:48:43 banisterfiend: i think parsing lisp in c is a bit more intersting (and takes up a bit more code, like 2-3 pages) 05:48:49 s/c/c++ 05:49:06 hml: you could use scons 05:49:13 I have used it before and liked it more than make 05:49:14 c++ ? i heard c++ has so many edge cases and is so complex that to write a fully compliant c++ parser could take months 05:49:18 but I know make better than everything else 05:49:27 banisterfiend: hml is talking about writing a lisp parser *in* C++ 05:49:33 oh ok 05:49:36 sorry 05:49:59 synx: thanks ill google for plt-scheme 05:50:04 yeah, the solution i ended up with was to parse expressions backwards, i thoght it was pretty cute 05:50:07 writing a C++ parser in anything is so bothersome that there's a company which makes one that a lot of C++ compilers use 05:50:21 alternatively, learn flex/bison, i think that's a really good into to the theory and practice of parsing 05:50:41 and lastly, imho, lisp is relatlively easy to parse compared to other languages 05:52:01 yeah 05:52:12 yeah hml 05:52:16 that's why i wanted to write a parser in it 05:52:31 lisp is good for parsing lisp 05:52:35 lisp is supremely easy to parse. Maybe not the easiest to read, but I could write a parser for a lisp-like language. I could not write a parser for a perl or C like language though, yeesh. 05:52:36 hml: do you have any suggestions where a lisp/parsing noob would go to get a good overview on what he needs to learn to do it? 05:52:52 Heck I have written a parser for a lisp-like language. It's just the only way I know to do it. That and some concatenative stuff, which is in theory simpler. 05:53:49 Ashy [n=User@220.157.86.160] has joined #scheme 05:54:09 banisterfiend: if i wanted to write a scheme parser; i woudl get a bunch of scheme code and start writing a parser that made it work; if i wanted to learn parsing in general, i'd probably pick up the ullman/aho compiler book and learn flex/bison 05:54:49 hml: is that book available free on the web? 05:55:05 oh shit 05:55:08 it's the dragon book 05:55:14 hehe 05:55:15 thanks 05:56:04 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-16-226.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:59:14 -!- forcer [n=forcer@e179194231.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:59:54 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-68-50-36-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:03:38 -!- glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.99] has quit [] 06:10:45 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@220.157.86.160] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:27:58 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antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Client Quit] 09:19:22 -!- antoszka_ is now known as antoszka 09:20:47 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 09:30:47 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 09:44:18 Text I/O in scheme so well covered you might think scheme's the language for writing word processors. 09:44:36 Number I/O, on the other hand, is just fucking broken. 10:02:58 evoli [n=yuhsin@BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 10:03:30 incubot: BIOHAZARD-CAFE 10:03:32 i'm getting something at Cafe Algiers, but it's very slow 10:10:11 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-35-60.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 10:14:46 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:24:48 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-245-231.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 10:27:13 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit 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[n=jh@p5B057080.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:36:53 zsircusr [n=zsirc@41.208.11.168] has joined #scheme 12:37:25 -!- zsircusr [n=zsirc@41.208.11.168] has quit [Client Quit] 12:37:45 does anybody know why "lock" and "nfields" were introduced in 12:37:46 Kiczales' TinyCLOS? they are not really used. 12:41:49 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-133-122.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:42:12 -!- pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 12:42:17 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-62-141.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:42:47 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 12:43:49 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 12:55:46 (format #f "~N" blah) ; gives an output of: 12:55:54 is there anyway I want the \n to be actually interpreted ? 12:56:06 i.e. I want the opposite of ~S 13:04:32 the documentation for format says: 13:04:35 ~S READably, with escapes 13:04:40 how do I read back something with ~S 13:09:51 choas [n=lars@p5B0DD864.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:13:31 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:17:44 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 13:21:43 synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:23:38 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 13:29:11 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:30:50 bpalmer [n=user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has joined #scheme 13:31:35 Is there an automaton library for scheme? 13:34:03 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-170-46-wfor-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:45:06 incubot: i didn't know you lived in cambridge 13:45:08 (I'm not in Cambridge, actually, by the way.) 13:45:48 incubot: i take it you won't meet me for chess at au bon pain, then 13:45:51 Let's say that you are in a job where every day you play a game of chess. And there is some element of status that comes from winning. 13:49:31 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #scheme 13:53:02 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:56:13 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #scheme 13:58:35 -!- Debolaz [n=debolaz@nat.andersberle.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:11:53 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-204-57-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 14:16:27 Debolaz [n=debolaz@nat.andersberle.com] has joined #scheme 14:16:39 incubot: is this a game or is it real? 14:16:42 that game is cool :-) 14:17:54 -!- borism___ [n=boris@195-50-206-223-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:24:14 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit ["The computer fell asleep"] 14:24:25 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 14:26:02 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-98-218-113-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:26:41 underspecified [n=eric@c-68-50-36-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:26:51 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.182.63] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:37:57 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:40:31 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #scheme 14:40:37 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:42:05 dsmith [i=zbw8cm9h@cpe-71-74-230-225.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 14:47:30 -!- dsmith [i=zbw8cm9h@cpe-71-74-230-225.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:53:20 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 14:54:45 chturne [n=charlie@host86-128-227-77.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 14:55:40 I've got a lengthy question about one the excersizes in the "How to Design Programs" book. I've posted it on pastebin. Would anyone be so kind to have a look at it for me? http://pastebin.com/m35829eca 14:56:29 chturne, square root of sum of squares is a pythagoras thing 14:58:52 vixey: is that with regards to me auxilary function? I'm using the distance formula there. 14:59:05 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 14:59:19 I don't think that will be a useful aux 15:00:00 ok. any ideas on the vector idea then? :) 15:00:55 if you just want to check that (px py) is within the rectangle (x y width height), then you have to check that px is within x, x+width i.e. (< x px (+ x width)) and that py is between y and y + height 15:01:31 ahhh 15:02:06 i understand this know. sorry! 15:05:18 but this wouldn't work if the rectangle was tilted, right? (i know the problem isn't asking me to take this into consideration, but out of interest) 15:05:52 yes this requires the box is axis aligned 15:06:02 there's two ways to generalize to rotated rectangles 15:06:40 you can either transform it (and the point) to be axis aligned and reuse this procedure, or you could do a general point inside polygon check 15:07:21 i understand. 15:07:28 Thanks for your time vixey :) 15:07:47 if you fire a line outwards from the point in question (in any direction), and count the number of times it crosses the perimeter of the polygon -- the number is odd iff the point is inside 15:08:44 neat idea 15:10:11 i got on the wrong tracks when I read this page (http://www.puz.com/sw/amorphous/theory/index.htm) about the Amorphous Maze program. Heh 15:10:39 The "inner product" section in particular. 15:11:54 hmm 15:15:53 there is more good stuff about geometry on paul bourkes website 15:16:10 http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/geometry/ 15:17:10 exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.182.63] has joined #scheme 15:18:49 cool 15:20:20 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:24:02 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-54.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:26:08 borism__ [n=boris@195-50-211-226-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 15:30:31 dsmith [i=pt9x6ddi@cpe-71-74-230-225.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:30:37 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-204-57-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:30:37 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-3-181.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 15:37:54 a-s [n=user@92.81.96.202] has joined #scheme 15:38:10 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:47:49 After evaluating (require (lib "errortrace.ss" "errortrace")) in PLT Scheme I'm unable to define any macro with DEFINE-SYNTAX. Is there some workaround, so I can keep using errortrace? 15:47:56 moghar pasted "errortrace and define-syntax" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72448 15:55:11 -!- ewelker [n=edwelker@pool-96-240-132-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 15:59:16 -!- underspecified [n=eric@c-68-50-36-52.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:00:30 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.182.63] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:08:35 given an S-expression is there a way to replace lists in it ? like if i have '(* (+ 1 2) (+3 4) (+1 2)) so i want something to be able to replace for example (+1 2) with "A" so i get '(* A (+3 4) A) 16:12:47 "equal?" compares lists recursively. 16:14:27 You may want to have a look at Wright's MATCH macro 16:15:27 anyone good link sjamman? 16:15:29 any 16:15:34 I think that One True Language has special key parameter to do this in one form. ;) 16:16:15 Tankado: http://chicken.wiki.br/Pattern%20matching 16:16:27 thanks 16:17:09 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:17:10 I think different Schemes have different extensions to it, so you probably want to check the docs specific to your Scheme system 16:18:13 (substitute 'a '(+ 1 2) '(* (+ 1 2) (+3 4) (+1 2)) :test #'equal) 16:18:31 => (* A (3 4) (1 2)) 16:19:10 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 16:20:44 ASau : what is substitute? 16:20:53 my scheme doesnt recognize that 16:21:02 Tankado: because it isn't scheme. 16:21:17 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:21:21 "It just works. 16:21:43 But not in minimal languages. 16:21:58 ? 16:22:50 r2q2: Tankado wants ready solution in Scheme. 16:23:02 Essentially, he wants to do this: 16:23:10 (substitute 'a '(+ 1 2) '(* (+ 1 2) (+ 3 4) (+ 1 2)) :test #'equal) 16:25:37 Oh I thought you were answering my question about FSM 16:25:50 I am working on new computational model that is turning equivalent. 16:26:04 "New"? 16:26:21 ASau, he's some kind of lunatic 16:26:29 Yea. I am nuts. 16:27:23 vixey : stop following me please ;) 16:27:49 is it translationally equivalent, too? 16:28:25 sladegen: Translationally? 16:28:42 sladegen: I think I programmed the S and K combinators. 16:29:20 if it's "rotationally" equivalent... sorrt, just teasing. 16:30:02 Oh okay. 16:31:02 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 16:32:08 i've just seen a stanford lecture about darwin where someone traced timeline of his notes based on evolution of spelling errors ;) 16:34:19 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:34:46 Anyways I found this really nice paper about fsm's online. 16:38:40 *sladegen* bows down to flying spaghetti monster: thou art so hard to spell. 16:39:04 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DD864.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:39:44 Maybe I should take a class on automata theory at my college. 16:39:52 It seems pretty easy. 16:41:20 sladegen: I should start watching these lectures. So far I downloaded them and burned on DVD, thats all. 16:42:00 Leonidas: Link/ 16:42:01 ? 16:42:51 Leonidas: about darwin? ... a bit too long, though. 16:43:12 r2q2: http://see.stanford.edu/see/courses.aspx 16:45:53 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 16:48:38 Thanks. 16:50:34 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 17:00:25 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A0D3A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:02:38 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 17:06:45 -!- Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-79-181-19-96.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [] 17:12:36 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit ["leaving"] 17:12:51 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 17:29:22 jjong [n=user@125.176.90.47] has joined #scheme 17:29:39 exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.182.63] has joined #scheme 17:33:19 -!- jjong [n=user@125.176.90.47] has quit [Client Quit] 17:40:21 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-165-21.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:40:38 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:41:45 Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-79-181-19-96.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 17:42:10 I am tring to do the substitute function for sometime now anyone can maybe give me a hint? :( 17:44:02 Straightforward solution is pretty obvious. 17:44:56 its not very obvious for me when you talk about lists containing lists and i need to substitute in each and every one of them 17:44:59 And yet, apparently not. Tankado, show your work, please. 17:45:13 Tankado: recursion. 17:45:46 Daemmerung : the problem i dont know what to return, i have been tring to use set-car! but its not working so well 17:46:22 You return the result. 17:46:24 Always. 17:46:50 Don't use "set-cat!" or other destructive features unless you do need them. 17:47:05 What about SET-DOG!, or SET-GOLDFISH!? 17:47:22 You don't set dog, you kick it. :p 17:47:45 Or you feed it, if it's friendly dog. :) 17:48:02 Well you guys dont have to help me i understand that, but i do need some direction if you dont feel like giving it to me i will understand 17:48:29 -!- ttmrichter_ [n=ttmricht@221.235.61.205] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:48:29 Write straightforward recursive definition. 17:48:34 On paper, no scheme. 17:48:48 Tankado: help here generally does not mean outright gifts of working code. 17:49:54 ASau : i know or feel like i know what i need to do, but its getting nowhere 17:50:07 here is a simpler problem to get you started -- write a procedure that replaces all instances of an atom `a' in a list with another atom `b'. 17:50:38 and by replaces, i mean returns the new list with said substitution. 17:51:16 Daemmerung: I don't think it simplifies problem. 17:51:33 Tankado: explain in plain words, how you are solving the problem. 17:52:42 ASau : basiclly appending recursive calls on the car and cdr and returning the new exp if i call the function with the exp i need to substitute 17:52:54 something like that 17:53:20 No "basically", be particular. 17:53:21 well thats my new approach 17:53:47 i guess i shouldnt have used set-car! 17:55:37 i will try to write something 18:02:49 Tankado: if you continue to be stuck, go to the library and read the first three chapters of /The Little Schemer./ 18:03:19 http://rafb.net/p/2vqCGK38.html 18:05:03 (equal? exp lst) 18:05:29 Here you compares original list to the member. 18:05:33 Why? 18:05:40 sam___ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 18:06:37 This is my recursion stop if the exp i want to substitute is equal to my "list" i want to return the substituted expression 18:07:19 i do recursive calls with car and cdr of lst 18:08:15 You have a list, which continues in single dimension. 18:08:31 Why you recurse into its "car"? 18:10:06 if i have something like (sub '(+ 1 2) 'a '(+ (* 3 (+ 4 (+ 1 2))) (+ 1 2))) ==> i want to get the result of (+ (* 3 (+ 4 a)) a) 18:11:09 i dont have a list in a single dimension thats the problem 18:12:22 Ah, you want substitution to work on tree! 18:12:24 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 18:12:47 yes... 18:13:20 BTW, get text editor with parenthese highlighing. 18:13:24 The balance is wrong. 18:13:35 And that's your problem. 18:13:42 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:15:07 I use emacs and i dont see any wrong balance 18:15:46 (define ... (cond ((and) (if) (if)))) 18:16:00 _Impicit progn_. 18:16:28 ASau, implicit BEGIN 18:16:36 humm i am not realu used to chez scheme syntax the last if should be an "else" if 18:17:09 It doesn't depend on implementation. 18:17:16 Tankado, the syntax is (IF ) 18:17:25 Tankado, this is documented here: 18:17:27 r5rs IF 18:17:28 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_98 18:17:29 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/4xlwxg 18:17:29 Implicit progn is there from 60s. 18:17:41 vixey: wrong reference. 18:17:43 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:17:45 r5rs cond 18:17:45 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_106 18:17:46 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/3gogwm 18:17:46 vixey : the syntax of cond 18:18:00 -!- offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:18:00 I'm only talking about IF not COND 18:18:05 in PLT-Scheme i had else 18:18:48 vixey: the problem lies in COND, not in IF. 18:18:49 KirinDave [n=kirindav@c-98-210-137-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:19:17 IF doesn't have implicit progn. 18:20:25 offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 18:20:47 nothing in scheme has an implicit PROGN 18:20:53 PROGN is not a concept in scheme 18:21:46 ASau : thanks found it 18:22:28 vixey: cond does have implicit progn, progn _is_ scheme concept. 18:22:37 r5rs PROGN 18:22:37 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for PROGN. 18:22:40 r5rs BEGIN 18:22:40 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_136 18:22:41 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/w4m4a 18:22:42 r5rs progn 18:22:42 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for progn. 18:22:43 It still exists there though under another name. 18:22:56 ASau, ok so PROGN exists and is called BEGIN? 18:22:59 ASau: you are not helping here by adhering to CL nomenclature. 18:23:28 I think you gotta s/one true language/one language I know better/ 18:23:38 Daemmerung: it is common nomenclature to the whole Lisp family. 18:23:47 Daemmerung: it predates common lisp and scheme. 18:23:49 Both. 18:23:54 k don't answer my question, whatever 18:24:09 Nevertheless, you are in #scheme. Friss Vogel oder stirbt. 18:24:37 -!- a-s [n=user@92.81.96.202] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:26:52 thank you ASau it seems to be working now 18:28:39 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A0D3A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:29:04 not realy but atleast its a progress 18:29:31 Paste and tell what doesn't work. 18:34:17 (substitute '(+ 1 2) 'a '(* (- 5 (+ 1 2)) (+ (+1 2) 2))) gives me a bad answer 18:34:23 the code is here http://rafb.net/p/Hg1g8T99.html 18:34:25 lisppaste: url 18:34:26 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 18:35:57 Tankado: you better read some Lisp introduction. 18:36:01 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 18:36:07 Tankado: any, scheme or common. 18:36:16 You're using wrong idioms. 18:36:44 More correct: you don't use common ones. 18:36:49 Tankado, what are you trying to replace (+ 1 2) with a? 18:36:56 yes 18:37:02 why 18:37:17 why what? 18:37:34 Tankado: hint: substitution in empty list should leave empty list. 18:38:18 why 18:38:34 because 18:38:50 Alternative answer: "Why not?" 18:39:04 bad answer -- does not add information 18:39:07 -!- offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:39:12 not why! 18:39:13 Tankado: your version doesn't do that. 18:39:21 offby1-quassel [n=quassel@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 18:39:26 _why the lucky stiff! 18:39:49 yeah thanks i am going to fix that i will bbl 18:41:03 "Haskell would be an hour of static. Proponents would laud the purity of the show." and about screwing in the lightbulb when someone turned in on was a good LOL, today ;) 18:41:31 heh, where was that? 18:41:49 reddit. 18:41:56 right 18:42:01 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7klpm/if_programming_languages_were_t/ 18:42:02 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/3opjl3 18:42:15 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@h-68-165-62-43.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:42:32 How annoying, they actually posted comments on reddit 18:42:45 I saw the original post, but I came through the LtU RSS feed 18:42:57 -!- Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-79-181-19-96.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [] 18:43:24 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 18:43:32 "What the fuck are you talking about? You drew that comparison! I just listed languages and teas, you matched them up. You just offended yourself." 18:43:51 too many passwords for me... 18:44:17 If Programming Languages were <-- is this C++ 18:44:49 yes and no 18:45:04 passwords? 18:45:12 it might be BNF. 18:45:48 Everything thinks in his own concepts. 18:45:49 in relation to comments. stopped logging into reddit long time ago. 18:46:02 *ASau* isn't in C++ or BNF. 18:47:19 -!- cipher` [n=cipher@pool-98-118-51-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:47:23 *sjamaan* laughs at http://jonex.info/dump/yolisp.jpg 18:47:27 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A0D3A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:49:14 much better... http://heeen.de/fun/dawg.gif 18:49:38 :) 19:00:08 chturne_ [n=charlie@host86-128-227-77.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 19:14:21 That GIF reminds me of LOGO 19:14:38 incubot: Home of the WOPR 19:14:41 "Gelatin can also be prepared at home. Boiling certain cartilaginous cuts of meat or bones will result in gelatin being dissolved into the water. Depending on the concentration, the resulting broth, when cooled, will naturally form a jelly or gel. This process, for instance, may be used for the pot-au-feu dish." 19:15:12 incubot: true. 19:15:14 true didn't think of that solution 19:15:24 -!- chturne [n=charlie@host86-128-227-77.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:21:28 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 19:21:39 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:28:53 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 19:32:45 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 19:34:56 -!- eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-165-21.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:38:51 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:41:09 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:42:33 -!- KirinDave [n=kirindav@c-98-210-137-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] 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[n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:49:38 sam_ [n=Sami__@e81-197-69-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 23:59:59 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgqHH6UJ54o times're a changing.