00:00:27 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:01:00 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:01:15 ha, gcsurvey.ps (Uniprocessor Garbage Collection Techniques) converted after manually hacking the file... this is totally awesome 00:01:23 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:01:38 YEARS! 00:01:44 minion: chant 00:01:45 MORE CHECKS 00:03:19 (+ (- x y) (/ z a)) converts into a very simple binary tree. 00:03:32 baklava-: ^^^ 00:03:41 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-66-164.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:04:08 Definitely try some other books to learn Scheme. 00:05:11 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:05:12 arcfide: I'm checking out a couple tutorials now... not familiar with stack-based RPN calculators 00:05:32 baklava-: Read up on s-expressions and the like, and things will become clear. Good luck to you. 00:05:33 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:05:59 is there a way to serialize out types (generic data types, ala lists/records/strings etc) to binary data 00:06:13 or is outputting to S-expressions the standard way 00:06:17 arcfide: okay, thanks 00:06:54 Arelius: Most standard scheme types have serializations, but things like records often do not. 00:07:14 well, ignoring records and the like, how would I do that? 00:07:22 How would you do what? 00:07:45 serialize say a list to binary 00:07:48 Generally, WRITE outputs expressions in such a way that if they can be serialized, they will be output in their canonical form such that READ can accept them back in. 00:08:03 But, outside of that, you'll be relying on implementation features. 00:08:10 Many Schemes have FASL support. 00:08:18 fasl? 00:08:46 It's a binary format (not necessarily implementation independent) that serializes scheme structures into a binary format for reading back in. 00:09:02 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:09:37 Arelius, FASt Load methinks 00:09:56 In Chez Scheme, one FASL-WRITEs things out, and then can READ them back in. 00:11:27 It's amazing to me how well the scheme community has made google searching for things so very difficult 00:11:43 Hehe. 00:11:50 What do you mean? 00:12:08 *synx* googles for "scheme" 00:12:38 well in this instance FASL scheme or "fast load" scheme both return non-relevant results 00:12:46 mostly due to the ambiguity of the word scheme 00:12:54 and in say for instance chicken scheme 00:13:08 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-193-54.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:13:24 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-193-54.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:13:30 chicken eggs and scheme, are all so ambigious that it becomes very difficult to find what you want 00:13:36 Well, the workaround, of course, is to not use google, but use more targeted engines. 00:13:50 Arelius: Do a Google search for chicken scheme, guess what's the first thing that pops up. 00:13:53 how do you mean? 00:13:57 sgoogle? 00:14:20 Just type in "chicken scheme" without the quotation marks even. 00:14:21 Google isn't the only means of getting information, despite what the current generation believes. 00:14:29 sure 00:14:36 sgoogle? 00:15:08 My method of searching is to ask trusted friends and learn. 00:15:15 It's this newfangled concept called "hearsay" 00:15:19 word-of-mouth 00:15:36 i just searched fasl scheme on google and the first 9 of 10 results were relevant... which google are you using 00:16:00 Well, if it makes a difference, I will be doing something next semester which will attempt to gather together a large amount of Scheme resources into a searchable form for use by Scheme programmers. 00:16:27 protip: add "lambda" to your scheme searches 00:16:44 zbigniew: I'll try that 00:16:55 r2q2 [n=user@c-71-228-37-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:17:07 but also for instance, searching for item related to chicken scheme, often links to "edit" pages on the chicken wiki 00:17:13 or archived versions 00:17:51 now, that is a problem 00:18:02 and the built in chicken wiki search is all but worthless 00:18:41 there is #chicken and mailing list... 00:19:01 which is why I often ask questions there 00:19:06 Hrm, yes, apparently, things are a bit harder in the Chicken's world. 00:19:33 there was some serialize egg. 00:19:41 but when comparing the time to find solutions by asking in #chicken, to google searching for other language 00:19:48 it seems problematic 00:19:54 sladegen: I'll belive that 00:20:03 arelius: Well, I almost never use Google to find information about Scheme stuff. 00:20:14 But yeah, it would be nice to have a better searching mechanism. 00:21:06 arcfide: I suspect you know enough about scheme to know where to go searching, however I'm still relativelly new 00:21:34 Arelius: Yes, it can be a bit of a jungle out there. 00:21:48 Maybe the situation will improve in a year's time. :-) 00:22:05 That'd be nice 00:22:14 Arelius: Wish me luck then. 00:22:31 Much luck to you! 00:22:59 Is there a standard way, within say a repl, to get function prototypes/param lists? 00:23:10 Function prototypes? 00:23:18 You mean, like type signatures? 00:23:19 mostly just parameter lists 00:23:27 that'd be nice too 00:23:30 Not that I know of. 00:23:52 K, cause I feel that'd be a very powerful thing. 00:24:11 I think there are some Emacs modes that let you get some information from your definitions, and I think that you can get things like ctags to work with Scheme. 00:24:40 Some Schemes also provide arity information, I believe. 00:25:35 I'm thinking about the meta-info facilities that allow stuff like SLIME to work. 00:26:15 In Chez, you can inspect procedures and get information about them. Other Scheme implementations provide similar features. 00:26:36 in say chez, what are those features 00:27:20 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:27:22 Arelius: well, interactively, I could, say, (INSPECT proc) and then type c, which would show me the code for that procedure. 00:27:28 I could then see the parameters. 00:27:36 Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:27:37 what does the c do? 00:27:46 It stands for (c)ode. 00:28:34 ahh, so inspect is interactive 00:28:45 Arelius: The interactive version is. 00:28:54 There is a procedural interface, as well. 00:30:55 Well thanks 00:31:05 I'm going to see if I can check out this fasl 00:31:20 Good luck. 00:31:32 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska310174.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:31:52 BW^- [i=Miranda@79.138.204.19.bredband.tre.se] has joined #scheme 00:32:43 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFFC88.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 00:38:51 anerak [n=john@173-22-166-236.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 00:41:48 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska310174.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:44:37 what's the diff b/w a *.texinfo and a *.info file? 00:46:51 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@88.234.15.230] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:50:14 -!- levi` is now known as levi 00:51:43 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:52:48 synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:57:13 checking for a ( at the head of a list can be done with (if (equal? '\( (eval (car lis)) (exp2) (exp3))), using \ as the escape for ( 00:57:40 correct? 01:00:20 fschwidom [n=fschwido@94.219.112.64] has joined #scheme 01:01:03 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@94.219.112.64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:02:48 banisterfiend: .texinfo is a source file, out of which you can generate .info or .dvi .... 01:04:08 mmc: how do i generate .info from it? :D 01:04:20 my sbcl build doesn't seem to be able to do it itself :/ 01:05:10 banisterfiend: makeinfo 01:05:23 i just type makeinfo myfile.texinfo ? 01:08:20 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has joined #scheme 01:10:02 man makeinfo 01:10:03 http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/makeinfo.1.html 01:10:04 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/57e8ev 01:10:53 incubot: nuke specbot! 01:10:54 Is specbot working? 01:11:09 incubot: too well, make it stop! 01:11:11 ugh, have to go to bed now, sorry. anyway what you do is start running the program in debug mode, stop it somewhere and then hover the cursor over the beginning paren of some form. it should show a little circle, and you can then right click and choose a "run to cursor" option (it might not be named that exactly). 01:11:41 incubot: chicken! 01:11:43 What's the license of chicken-extras? It seems that it's not an egg, is it in the core? 01:12:19 geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:12:28 incubot: turkey! 01:12:30 I thought turkey day was on the sunday? 01:12:40 incubot: turkey day is always a thursday 01:12:42 I know what it is because I bought it by accident one time. I was supposed to pick up some Wild Turkey and got confused. 01:12:50 heh 01:16:06 I celebrate foodweek. 01:17:03 Start off with some bread usually. I love bread recipes. So simple, yet such subtleties to it. 01:17:29 Flour, oil, and beyond that it's how good you are at culturing fungus. 01:19:41 -!- Deformati [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:19:59 Deformati [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:22:37 -!- Guest22756 [n=mike@dslb-088-064-149-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:30:33 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:32:07 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 01:32:56 incubot: In you opinion, what's the best pizza topping? 01:32:59 But now it seems as if .NET will be everybody's cross-language language, execution environment, floor wax, desert topping... 01:34:46 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 01:37:43 incubot: burp 01:37:45 Another advice for oral exam: Don't drink carbonated drinks before - you don't want to hold in a burp at the exam. 01:39:59 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-53-45.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:48:53 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@hoasnet-fe1add00-113.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 01:50:19 -!- replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-5-146.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:55:24 how can I define a procedure that can accept an arithmetic expression such as (/(* 3 2)4) as a parameter in the REPL? 01:55:53 baklava-: Thats in SICP. Look for it in there. 01:56:14 baklava-: SICP arithmetic expression in google. 01:56:59 r2q2: I'll check it out, thanks 01:58:37 is there a problem from calling set! functions from within a for-each! 01:58:43 to, say increment something? 01:59:51 it's ok 02:00:32 hrm 02:03:51 baklava-: If the differentator doesn't work for you. 02:04:01 baklava-: Then just use the metacircular interpreter pieces. 02:05:10 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05610B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:06:51 Arelius: As long as your okay with using mutation sure. 02:10:18 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 02:11:05 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-69-254-76-231.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:13:12 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable027.191-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:15:24 r2q2: I haven't been able to find it in SICP yet... and I have no idea what that means :| this is basically my 1st day with Scheme and I'd apparently been using a broken book. Is what I'm trying to do particularly difficult? 02:17:07 r2q2: I'd like to parse the expression and do some code generation once I've passed the expression. 02:18:17 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Operation timed out] 02:18:53 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-53-45.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:23:07 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless43.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:28:05 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:30:31 -!- BW^- [i=Miranda@79.138.204.19.bredband.tre.se] has left #scheme 02:31:27 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:36:21 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:37:51 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:43:44 offby1: ping 02:47:52 pong-o-rama 02:49:00 offby1: the hangup, is it at the first `eval' thing? 02:49:22 ... the <> thing 02:50:03 no, the second. 02:50:05 one moment 02:50:19 ok 02:50:33 where you see (c (format "eval ~s" expr)) (p (format "eval ~s" expr)) -- it's the call to "p" that hangs. 02:50:50 because we only see one "Yaa!!" 02:51:03 ??? 02:51:05 *offby1* is put in mind of "City Slickers" -- "They came because you said 'ya'" 02:51:30 *eli* didn't see that, and can barely see the screen now... 02:51:35 hm 02:51:40 did it hang for you at all? 02:51:49 Yes, at the eval line. 02:52:00 iirc, it was some (c (format ...)) thing. 02:52:21 that's the one that worked,yes. 02:52:32 the next line is similar except there's a "p" instead of a "c". 02:53:00 the only difference is that c emulates a message sent to a channel, whereas p emulates a message sent "privately" 02:53:17 I assume what really matters is that we did "eval" twice in a row, but I haven't actually checked that. 02:53:18 Not in the file I have. 02:53:36 It looks like it gets stuck on the first line 02:53:41 which says: ,(c (format "eval (error \"foo\\r\\nQUIT bar\")")) 02:54:05 huh, well, as long as it gets stuck :) 02:54:12 I assume there's something kind of non-deterministic 02:54:18 mine got a bit further. 02:54:35 Well, how do I know it's stuck? 02:55:07 because the program doesn't terminate within a few seconds 02:55:07 It outputs <> Doing ("eval" "(error" "\"foo\\r\\nQUIT" "bar\")") 02:55:25 So I assume that after the above output it should just continue, right? 02:55:28 yep 02:55:30 ok. 02:55:51 (Asking just so that I don't reduce the code down to some (sleep 30) thing.) 02:55:52 that file "main.ss" is, roughly, just a list of commands to send to the bot, and the one that says QUIT is by no means the last. 02:59:11 offby1: yes, it could have been helpful if you'd reduce that away... (I'm doing it manually now...) 02:59:19 sorry 03:01:33 quakehead [n=lumberja@adsl-76-194-233-20.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:02:39 rudybot: eval (values 1 2 3 4) 03:02:42 eli: error: with-limit: out of time 03:02:50 *eli* slaps rudybot 03:02:56 rudybot: eval (values 1 2 3 4 5 6 7) 03:02:57 eli: ; Value: 1 03:02:58 eli: ; Value: 2 03:02:59 eli: error: with-limit: out of time 03:03:18 offby1: this looks suspicious: (= displayed *max-values-to-display*) 03:03:29 sounds like you want `>=' instead 03:03:47 (not that it matters with your delays...) 03:04:08 lemme see 03:04:45 seems reasonable. 03:05:27 rudybot: eval (values (void) 123) 03:05:29 eli: ; Value: 123 03:05:35 *eli* slaps rudybot again 03:06:07 rudybot: eval (values (void) 123) 03:06:09 quakehead: ; Value: 123 03:06:30 rudybot: eval (+ 1 1) 03:06:30 quakehead: ; Value: 2 03:06:34 cool! 03:06:38 hmm, who'da' thunk 03:06:48 quakehead: oh, I thought you were eli in mufti. 03:06:55 -!- offby1 is now known as tremhead 03:06:58 *tremhead* whistles innocently 03:07:02 mufti? 03:07:05 disguise. 03:07:07 -!- tremhead is now known as offby1 03:07:11 no. 03:07:33 *eli* didn't know what "mufti" is either. 03:07:50 (besides an arab ruler) 03:07:50 you PEOPLE 03:08:39 it's like a judge or something. 03:09:35 http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mufti muf·ti 2 Civilian dress, especially when worn by one who normally wears a uniform. 03:10:32 offby1: perhaps you were thinking that I'm quakehead in mufti because we both didn't know about your meaning for the word. 03:12:02 yeah yeah 03:12:03 anyway: 03:12:12 I'm trying to reduce the test case, and of course it's now working fine :-| 03:13:13 so, lambda returns a function? 03:13:34 yep 03:13:39 *offby1* smacks forehead 03:13:43 I think I'm testing on the wrong box 03:15:47 offby1: something is very strange. 03:15:54 In my reduced version, I change (log "Bot version ~a starting" (git-version)) 03:15:58 to (log "Bot version ~a starting" '(git-version)) 03:16:03 and it doesn't get stuck. 03:16:09 yow 03:16:25 well, (git-version) does some disk I/O, creates a subprocess ... probably takes a significant amount of time 03:16:29 Hey eli. 03:16:43 lemme see if the same change unsticks mine 03:16:48 eli: I tried using quantum mechanical mathematics on regular mathematics. I have a funny proof. 03:17:00 huh, mine doesn't even call git-version and it still gets stuck 03:17:51 r2q2: sorry, my battery status is at about 2%, that's too little for disk access. 03:18:08 r2q2: is it small enough to fit in this margin? 03:18:21 eli: Oh okay 03:18:24 offby1: Yea sure. 03:18:56 But its HM according to knuth. 03:19:33 -!- quakehead [n=lumberja@adsl-76-194-233-20.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 03:20:15 offby1: it would really help if you can minimize it better. 03:20:18 High Maintenance? 03:20:21 eli: ho kay 03:20:36 I'm just suspecting something with that git-version thing. 03:20:40 (and the process that it starts) 03:21:12 offby1: Given a graph G and another graph H using hilber spaces, a heuristic, a graph encoding method utilizing hilbert spaces proof GII is in a complexity class. 03:21:21 r2q2: you don't say. 03:21:43 offby1: Hey you wanted the margin thing. 03:22:16 *offby1* places a margin call 03:23:36 rudybot: version 03:23:37 eli: ab71053 03:23:39 rudybot: version 03:23:40 eli: ab71053 03:23:41 rudybot: version 03:23:41 eli: ab71053 03:23:53 offby1: fun fact: I just ran three processes on your machine./ 03:24:34 :-( 03:24:40 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:24:59 offby1: Oh yea this irc window is too small to contain the proof in that margin. 03:25:04 offby1: delay/force, and you've solved it. 03:25:11 eli: hmm 03:25:21 I think I tried memoizing but it wasn't working for a while 03:31:34 any chance I could get some direction on a recursive descent parser for arithmetic expressions? I've written the grammar but am having trouble moving forward. I know it should be easy but I've been working on it for quite some time already. 03:32:55 eli: this hangs too, and is marginally simpler: http://github.com/offby1/rudybot/raw/master/two-evals.ss 03:33:28 baklava-: if it's so simple that pasting it takes up way under half a page, I might be able to help 03:34:25 offby1: that's too marginal. I've gotten rid of most of main.ss already. 03:34:42 :-( 03:36:31 offby1: it's not that my code is buggy, I just can't seem to convert any of the RDP algorithms I've seen to scheme. I've been trying to focus on reading TSPL and tutorials since I found out my book is garbage but my understanding of the parser hasn't really advanced 03:37:24 I'm not much of a parser guy ... it won't hurt to paste what you've got, and ask "how can I do X". At worst I'll say "I dunno" 03:39:28 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Connection reset by beer"] 03:43:44 offby1: You like that :-) 03:43:53 giving up is underrated. 03:45:00 well, so far I've tried to setup the grammar rules so S-> AB = (define (S list) (A list) (B list)) etc for each grammar rule, and then when I get to the rules with the terminals, use conditional statements and car to see if it is equal to the character I'm expecting 03:47:13 but then the grammar has rules such as B -> CD; B -> CE, and D and E go on from there, not really sure which procedures to call when I get to the B rule. I'm really not even sure this is how it should be setup in the first place though 03:48:14 mm 03:48:28 it's been a long time since I've written a parser :-( 03:54:20 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:00:28 sam_ [n=Sami__@hoasnet-fe1add00-113.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 04:02:20 :( 04:02:41 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 04:02:47 elmex_ [n=elmex@e180066131.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:09:15 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:14:47 chaoslyn1 [n=cpehle@p57A745A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 04:16:32 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@hoasnet-fe1add00-113.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 04:17:39 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180067084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:17:44 -!- elmex_ is now known as elmex 04:25:07 offby1: gnip 04:25:54 gnop 04:27:14 ...1ybffo deen I ,yrros 04:27:20 offby1: gnip 04:28:13 i6u!d :1hqtto 04:31:20 -!- chaoslynx [n=cpehle@p57A76728.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:33:27 offby1: In case you see this, I've reduced it to about a screenful of stuffs, with lots of things that are not needed (redundant requires, unused values, etc) 04:33:41 ¿ uo uo s, sn  04:33:46 offby1: if any of these is removed, it works fine -- so I think that this is some but at the C level. 04:34:01 (forwarded to the proper authorities.) 04:36:45 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 04:37:12 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:48:30 thanks 04:48:51 synx: stand on your feet like a man. 04:50:00 ¡ o ssoq  ou ,no 04:56:15 valiza1 [n=haroldo@r190-133-145-8.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 04:56:59 hi ! i've read that in "pure" lambda expressions programs order of evaluation does not matter. 04:57:28 to which extent is that true and useful in scheme programming ? 04:57:42 (sorry if the question sounds strange) 04:58:25 Which `order' do you mean? 04:58:42 Riastradh: I took the word from a monad article 04:59:32 Do you mean the sequential order of a list of arguments, such as in (F A B C) whether F, A, B, or C, is evaluated first; or do you mean the semantic order of substitution, i.e. whether arguments are evaluated before substituting parameters in the bodies of lambdas? 05:00:40 i don't know for sure, "In simple, terminating, pure lambda expressions, the order of evaluation is completely irrelevant" is said here http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dherman/browse/shared/notes/monads/monads-for-schemers.txt 05:00:41 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5blp8p 05:01:01 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 05:01:16 He's talking about the former. 05:01:40 that is the semantic order of substitution? 05:01:44 No. 05:01:53 He's talking about which argument expression will be evaluated first. 05:02:03 i see 05:02:23 It doesn't matter, because if they are separate argument expressions, and if they have no side effects, then they are independent of time, and can be evaluated in whatever sequence you want. 05:03:05 in what sense is that relevant to programming ? 05:03:23 Suppose you are editing a program, and you see the following fragment: 05:03:37 (let* ((a (foo bar)) (b (baz quux))) ...) 05:03:50 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-71-228-37-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:04:04 It does not appear straight away necessary to have written LET*, because the second binding does not refer to the first. 05:04:15 yes 05:04:33 But because Scheme is not purely functional, there may be a sequential dependency between the two expressions: they may not be independent of time. 05:04:56 If I run that program, I might get different answers from a similar program with the LET* clauses in the other order. 05:07:16 For example, suppose I wrote 05:07:23 (let* ((a (read-char)) (b (read-char))) ...) 05:07:33 and then entered `xy'. 05:07:49 yes, that would make the order matter 05:07:49 The value of A would be #\x and the value of B would be #\y. 05:08:01 On the other hand, if I exchange those two, then A would have #\y and B would have #\x. 05:08:19 so, let me ,please, rephrase a little my question: is anyhow proposed in this context a way of programming that does not depend on order, and if yes, to which extent, in what scope or problem field ? 05:09:20 If one uses monads to express all effectual actions, and to serialize all sequential dependencies, and more importantly if one otherwise rejects implicit sequential dependencies, then it is perfectly legitimate to perform the transformation I described, of exchanging the two LET* clauses, or writing LET rather than LET*. 05:10:53 using let rather than let* is "cheaper" in terms of memory, say ? 05:11:04 No. 05:11:53 why would let be preferrable over let*? 05:12:02 Isolation of effects to monads makes more program transformations valid. This makes it easier to reason about programs. 05:12:26 interesting. 05:12:57 which makes it easier to optimize, in theory. 05:13:21 The only implicit sequential dependencies, well, must be explicated by the use of monads. Generally programs written thus have fewer dependencies written down in the program, so that there is less information that someone reasoning about the program must process. 05:13:31 synx, if that's all you're concerned about, you're missing the point. 05:14:53 I'm pretty sure (let* ((a 42) (b (+ a 4))) ...) is equivalent to (let ((a 42)) (let ((b (+ a 4))) ...)) 05:15:00 Riastradh: I liken optimization to a computer's ability to reason about programs. 05:15:48 OK, good. I try to avoid phrasing motivation in terms of optimization, because it is too easy then to suggest that the motivation is `for performance hacks only'. 05:15:58 The transformation you just described is the definition of LET*. 05:19:42 does this relate in any way the ability of rule languages like prolog, to no specially depend on order ? 05:29:41 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:31:15 last day of work for the year! 05:31:31 for me 05:36:56 offby2 [n=Android@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 05:39:03 offby2_ [n=Android@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 05:39:03 -!- offby2 [n=Android@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:39:55 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:40:17 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 05:40:38 Starsie_ [n=Stars@pool-71-178-226-102.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:45:40 offby2 [n=Android@m240e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 05:45:53 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:47:34 offby2__ [n=Android@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 05:48:10 offby2___ [n=Android@m660e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 05:49:38 -!- offby2 [n=Android@m240e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:49:41 -!- offby2__ [n=Android@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:50:01 -!- offby2_ [n=Android@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:50:10 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 05:52:18 -!- dsmith [i=ozs4mpu6@cpe-71-74-230-225.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:52:49 -!- offby2___ [n=Android@m660e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:54:10 -!- Starsie [n=Stars@pool-71-178-226-94.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:56:29 bigua [i=bigua@unaffiliated/bigua] has joined #scheme 05:58:23 hi, anyone know how i can found the solutions of htdp? 06:00:45 -!- Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:04:10 replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:05:48 by doing the problems 06:06:52 BW^- [i=Miranda@79.138.204.19.bredband.tre.se] has joined #scheme 06:06:59 wait now how do i write hex numbers? 06:07:03 i.e. A012 06:07:23 I think bigua wants to verify that he's doing them correctly. 06:07:28 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["strawberry"] 06:07:40 obviously 06:08:07 synx no 06:08:12 i wish see how it´s has done 06:10:37 Uh, you do that by doing it. There's no trick to it. 06:11:06 its trick when you think only in other style of programation 06:11:52 Hmm, well ask here about one problem, what you're confused about it. 06:12:02 is programation like programming in japan? 06:12:13 Once you have done one problem, the rest should follow naturally. 06:12:45 -!- chaoslyn1 [n=cpehle@p57A745A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:13:53 programmaticization 06:14:10 = separation of code from data 06:14:31 haha funnies 06:14:48 lolcats 06:14:50 but i dont know how to said when you have a function and need think in style you call the function in the selffunctions 06:15:02 recursion..? 06:15:07 yes jonrafkind 06:15:11 what do I win 06:17:06 how write hex numbers? 06:17:22 BW^- take the number and share by 16 06:17:37 if its pass 11 12 13 14 15 you put A B C D E 06:17:42 ? 06:18:13 BW^-, what are you asking exactly 06:18:32 13 in hex = #xd 06:21:06 how do i just enter the HEX number ABC123 into Scheme? 06:21:22 at least in Gambit #ABC123 = an object reference. 06:21:59 #xd in plt, i dunno about gambit 06:22:21 dont ask about "scheme" for such things since its architecture specific 06:22:22 scheme is evul 06:22:23 :( 06:23:07 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:24:16 string->number takes second argument (radix) in both guile and PLT 06:25:31 Bigloo too, but fails to accept non-standard (even small) radix. 06:25:55 bigua: So (string->number "ABC123" 16) is fairly portable 06:26:28 ikarus only supports radix 10 (as of 0.0.3) 06:30:12 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 06:30:40 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 06:32:07 jonrafkind: ah! 06:32:15 choo! 06:32:20 is #xd1234 architecture-specific? 06:32:36 yes, its implemented by the reader. r5rs does not specify it 06:32:39 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 06:32:39 afaik 06:32:50 the reader == the parser of the system you are using 06:33:15 jonrafkind 06:33:24 do you know soemthing this change code of c to scheme? 06:33:34 you want to convert C to scheme? 06:33:36 automatically? 06:33:43 not automatically 06:33:46 but something near 06:34:05 I know of no such thing, but there are libraries that let you *use* C from scheme known as FFI libraries 06:34:10 foreign function interface 06:34:44 bigua: Are you trying to associate numbers with letters? Like 11 with A, 12 with B, 13 with C? 06:35:05 synx, wrong person probably 06:35:21 synthasee ah eys 06:35:30 ok nevermind 06:35:31 10 = A no? 06:35:45 Yes, when radix>=11 06:36:00 And 10 is decimal 06:36:03 -!- Quadrescence is now known as styling 06:36:35 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:37:05 synx its not my trouble its a friend trouble 06:37:08 hence the name 06:37:08 the mine is other eheh 06:37:18 no 06:37:32 radix? 06:38:24 bigua: In the ASCII encoding, The letter 'A' is the decimal number 65. 06:39:03 Oh okay, sorry. 06:39:31 synx 06:39:37 i have two functions 06:39:41 hm.. im thinking 06:39:45 im soon to solve my trouble 06:39:52 -!- BW^- [i=Miranda@79.138.204.19.bredband.tre.se] has left #scheme 06:40:04 btw: synx you wrong 06:40:11 -!- styling is now known as Quadrescence 06:40:17 10 DEC is 0A in HEX 00001010 in BINand got a name LF 06:41:02 (define (fac a [rest 1]) (if (= a 1) rest (fac (- a 1) (* a rest)))) 06:41:03 That is "recursion" 06:41:06 Where fac calls fac. 06:41:10 65 in HEX is 101 DEC is a char e 06:41:34 oh good 06:41:43 synx but how i do 06:41:45 to example 06:41:52 I said that in ASCII 'A' is 65 in decimal. I didn't say what 10 decimal is. Yes it's line-feed. 06:41:58 two functions , a and function b 06:42:03 i need do a * b passing values 06:42:42 synx i got n = 65 for exemplae, and i need do 65, 64 to 0 06:42:54 and there i need pass 65 in a and 2*65 in b 06:43:27 So you want to multiply the result of a, with the result of b? 06:43:41 i want do one operation 06:43:53 in really manys operation to n - > 0 06:44:14 65,64,63,62,61,60.... 3,2,1,0 06:44:41 and pass (* a( n - 1) b( 2*n) ) 06:44:42 a thing yet 06:45:08 So you have a number, 65. You need to call (a number) and then (a (* 2 number)), then do the same thing for number-1, until it hits 0? 06:45:12 I mean 06:45:16 (b (* 2 number)) 06:45:17 yes 06:45:19 to 0 06:45:51 if (= n 0)? 06:46:12 ahhhhhhhhhh 06:46:12 What you do is define a function c that takes a number, and if that number is >= to 0, it calls a and b as you like, then calls c with 1 less than the number. 06:46:14 found! 06:46:26 it´s just use cond with else 06:46:41 replor__ [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:46:44 i will try write it 06:46:47 one moment 06:46:52 yes 06:48:29 (define (c number) (if (>= n 0) (begin (do-stuff-with-a-and-b) (c (- number 1))) #f)) 06:48:46 i need write begin ? 06:51:18 No, begin is already written. 06:51:57 -!- replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:52:39 my brain is pipen broken ;( 06:53:04 synx im have else ok 06:53:07 the if is done 06:53:16 the if i will stop m yfunction c 06:53:21 so now i need do else 06:54:07 (else (+ (/ (a n-1 ) b(*2(n-1))) 06:54:51 No, if and else are already provided. 06:54:52 Oh wait 06:55:01 Yes you need to write the code that goes in the if statement. 06:55:03 its is c = a/b + a/b (to n) 06:55:10 The else statement does not need 'else' written, unless you are using cond. 06:55:27 when n = 0 i stop 06:55:28 true 06:55:35 i need do else so > 0 06:56:41 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 06:56:43 There are several ways: (if (test) (yes) (no)) | (cond (((test) (yes)) (else (no)))) | (when (test) (yes)) ... 06:57:10 I am a fan of (if) myself, since an else clause is usually needed, but only one test is relevant at a time, in my style. 06:57:42 if is better 06:57:51 better i do if >= 0 06:58:04 (if (greater-than-or-equal-to-zero) (do-stuff-and-recurse) (return-result)) 06:58:22 synx but i do if >= 0 06:58:24 not is the same 06:58:30 cond ((=n 0) (blabla) 06:58:33 (else (...))) 06:58:34 ? 06:59:53 If you only do it when (= n 0) it will not do it for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc 07:00:14 if i need do for 1 2 3 4 5 etc 07:00:19 i write type 07:00:57 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:01:10 (if (= n 0) result (/ n (myfunction - c 1) 07:01:26 opz 07:01:36 (if (= n 0) result (/ n (myfunctionc - n 1) 07:07:36 synx :P 07:08:50 Oh yeah, that would work sorry. 07:09:38 Don't forget to put () around -, so (- c 1), (myfunction (- c 1)), etc. 07:10:44 yes i did 07:11:11 but i dont know it it´s right now ahueha 07:11:38 synx 07:11:39 when i do 07:11:44 (/ a b) 07:11:46 its a/b ? 07:12:53 Yes. 07:12:59 oh i did!!!!! 07:13:13 synx man i solve my trouble 07:13:26 i dont belive!!! i write a code to taylor omygod! 07:14:09 Awesome! 07:14:27 <3 07:14:30 I must sleep now. 07:14:32 thanks man 07:14:34 very thanks 07:14:39 im greatfull 07:14:49 synx gods bless you! 07:17:03 incubot: gracious 07:17:05 Good gracious, Name_up was checking in from a host in Saudi Arabia? 07:20:05 bigua: which gods, by the way; the Olympians? 07:20:48 humin kai kudos kai karin Olympioi theoi 07:24:31 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 07:36:02 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 07:40:02 -!- replor__ [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:42:13 -!- Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit ["leaving"] 07:45:12 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 07:57:32 replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 07:58:23 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:02:51 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 08:08:40 replor__ [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:11:36 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:11:39 Quadresce` [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:15:07 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:16:18 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:17:58 umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has joined #scheme 08:28:19 -!- DuClare [n=duclare@a81-197-106-84.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:28:28 DuClare [n=duclare@a81-197-106-84.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 08:28:57 -!- replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:30:42 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:31:42 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:35:40 Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 08:35:54 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:41:04 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:44:54 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 08:45:25 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053992.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:52:55 -!- replor__ [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:54:46 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:00:30 Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:00:55 replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:14:37 olgen [n=jacobm@2005ds3-by.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 09:15:49 valiza2 [n=haroldo@r190-133-132-228.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 09:16:32 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:16:52 -!- valiza1 [n=haroldo@r190-133-145-8.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:18:12 karsten_ [n=karsten@82.135.98.205] has joined #scheme 09:19:27 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:20:54 karlw [n=user@c-71-204-150-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:23:58 -!- karlw [n=user@c-71-204-150-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:29:11 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053992.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:30:11 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 09:32:24 tjafk [n=timj@e176204147.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 09:33:54 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 09:40:55 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 09:46:46 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:47:07 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 09:48:15 fschwidom [n=fschwido@94.219.112.64] has joined #scheme 09:50:13 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-153-96.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:51:14 ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has joined #scheme 10:07:37 -!- replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-62-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:12:03 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-066-236-084.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 10:12:33 -!- mike is now known as Guest14164 10:16:20 -!- Quadresce` [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:16:25 Quadresce_ [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:20:24 topriddy [n=JAVABOY@80.255.61.29] has joined #scheme 10:21:17 Hi all. 10:21:57 Please am a newbie at Scheme and lisp at that, and I need help/link to download version that run on windows 10:23:01 topriddy: Try PLT scheme (pltscheme.org) 10:23:49 I read something about Lisp improving the way I program and so I want to lwarn it. 10:23:50 Most schemes work under Windows, but they have a GUI that's probably the easiest to get used to when you're used to Windows 10:24:07 ^they = PLT 10:25:16 I read something about Lisp improving the way I program and so I want to learn** it. 10:25:20 The filesize is 22MB, 10:25:27 *topriddy* starts crying 10:25:35 heh 10:25:56 Does Lisp come bundled with Fedora Linux maybe I should switch over 10:26:19 Likely it does 10:26:45 You dont use Linux? 10:26:55 I use NetBSD 10:27:13 We have Linux on servers here, but not Fedora 10:27:15 Whats that? IS it cool? 10:27:29 Have a look for yourself at netbsd.org 10:27:53 If you just want to get started, you probably want Ubuntu or something like it 10:28:02 -!- Guest14164 [n=mike@dslb-088-066-236-084.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:28:03 Have you done OOP before? 10:28:08 yeah, why? 10:28:58 Well am trying to imagine the challenges I'll face as a O.O.P guy learning Lisp. 10:29:03 -!- banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:29:15 And what use I can put it into to. 10:29:28 banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #scheme 10:29:39 There are OOP systems for Scheme 10:29:44 An online friend whom I very much admire advised me to learn lisp and also when am through a FP like Scala 10:29:45 But you'll want to start with the basics first 10:30:36 Okay, what kind you say to be one of the greatest apps you have used Scheme to Achieve? 10:30:54 ? 10:31:31 I read an article by the author of ViaWeb(Online Store application builder) and Bulb Theory, 10:33:15 And he says Lisp is the most Powerful Language ever. But most people dont get it and dont bother getting it. 10:33:41 It is a very powerful language, and most people indeed don't get it 10:33:53 Most people stop at the sight of all the parentheses and run away screaming :) 10:34:19 Smiles, I want to get across that part. 10:34:51 But my question please pardon me to ask, is that what problem have u used Scheme to solve for a real life client??? 10:34:51 I always recommend The Little Schemer to people who are new to Scheme/Lisp 10:34:55 It's a great book 10:35:08 Unfortunately we don't use Scheme at work 10:35:20 It's all PHP here (and we used to do Ruby) 10:36:08 You do majorly Web? 10:36:13 yeah 10:36:32 In my Copious Amounts of Free Time I write web stuff for Chicken Scheme 10:36:55 Use CSS and all? 10:36:57 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-226.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 10:36:59 Of course 10:37:06 Dreamweaver and co? 10:37:10 Of course not 10:37:11 :) 10:38:59 What s Chicken Scheme??? 10:39:27 -!- Quadresce_ [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 10:39:51 A rockin' Scheme implementation 10:39:52 ? 10:40:03 www.call-with-current-continuation.org 10:40:22 Okay, how do you combine Scheme for Web App? Or for Desktop Rich GUI APplication 10:41:38 My download is 17% done. Is that fast ? My download speed is 5kb ps 10:43:57 cn someone tell me how to use the documentation function to get the documentation for my function? 10:49:21 sjamaan: You didnt answer that question???? Why? 10:50:31 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF27B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:52:13 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@94.219.112.64] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:00:24 topriddy: because of what you did to his sister 11:00:57 sjamaan: you write web applications in chicken scheme? which packags do you use for that? 11:02:39 banisterfiend: But the sister consented to it 11:02:47 hehe 11:03:51 Hope he isnt here to read that. 11:04:28 *topriddy* presses backspace 11:04:28 banisterfiend: What do you use scheme for 11:05:00 Sorry topriddy 11:05:12 I'm at work and not on IRC all the time 11:05:14 topriddy: nothing, i just hang out on #scheme because im banned from #lisp, i am trying to learn common lisp 11:05:24 (wrt. web apps -- http://rottyforge.yi.org/irclogs/ runs on Scheme) 11:05:38 sjamaan: Oh, you are back. 11:05:43 hey rotty 11:06:28 sjamaan: Have been able to download the stuff to 40%. 11:07:01 hi :-) 11:08:44 sjamaan: I askes a question earlier. 11:08:46 *ventonegro* will deploy one in january in the client's intranet 11:09:37 Okay, how do you combine Scheme for Web App? Or for Desktop Rich GUI APplication 11:10:48 well, that's not even a proper question 11:10:56 what do you mean by 'combine'? 11:12:05 combine => apply 11:12:48 You just use it like you would any other language 11:12:54 hm... I start coding... then code some more, then some more, then I have a web application :) 11:13:00 yeah :) 11:13:06 Sorry about my grammar 11:13:16 topriddy: I hear lots of good things about the PLT web server, though I've never used it. 11:13:22 -!- cky_ is now known as cky 11:13:58 cky: it seems to have improved a lot recently 11:14:17 Okay, I want to make a very big Shout Out. 11:14:18 ventonegro: Yay! Then I must give it a try. 11:14:30 exexex [n=chatzill@88.234.15.230] has joined #scheme 11:14:44 DOES ANYBODY HERE USE SCHEME OR LISP FOR ANYTHING BEYOND HOMEWORK PROGRAMS 11:14:59 ??? 11:15:08 NO NEED TO SHOUT 11:15:12 topriddy: *lol* Is that a troll question, or are you serious. 11:15:50 topriddy: If Scheme is used only for homework problems, there wouldn't be expensive commercial implementations like Chez Scheme. 11:15:58 cracki [n=cracki@46-181.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 11:15:58 Ofcourse, am dead serious. 11:16:14 topriddy: There are also expensive commercial implementations of Common Lisp too. :-P 11:16:24 Do you notice smirks on my face? 11:16:42 topriddy: you need better computing abilities, like googling 11:16:45 That doesn't answer my question. 11:16:45 topriddy: You heard of ITA Software? They use Common Lisp for central parts of their software. 11:16:51 topriddy: http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/lisp-companies/ 11:17:10 topriddy: read 11:17:18 Can I use Scheme to deliver a beautiful Pay Roll Application with extensive reportong 11:17:33 Can I use Scheme to deliver a beautiful Pay Roll Application with extensive reporting. 11:17:35 topriddy: If that's what you want to do, sure it's possible. 11:17:55 topriddy: There's a convention people use to correct just one word, without retyping the whole line. Just say "*reporting" 11:18:00 Without the quotes. 11:18:00 Why direct me to google when am in a channel of Lisp Programmers? 11:18:36 topriddy: click on the link 11:18:38 ventonegro: Am not stupid or foolish"/ 11:18:48 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 11:18:49 topriddy: pig 11:18:58 topriddy: I can't tell by your behaviour 11:19:48 banisterfiend: Last time I heard you, you complained about being banned in lisp channel. 11:20:11 topriddy: i heard the same about you 11:20:26 replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-153-96.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:20:34 *sjamaan* believes banisterfiend 11:21:11 And is it stupid to assume someone here who has been programming lisp for a while could just mention a PROJECT he has done with lisp so I'll know that the time and bandwidth am about to study the language wouldnt be a pure academic "TRAIL" 11:21:41 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #scheme 11:21:46 topriddy: So, have you read that link that ventonegro send you? 11:21:52 Banned? Laughs? Where ??? Definitely not in lisp. 11:22:12 topriddy: no, you're right, it's a stupid language, useless 11:22:14 topriddy: Suppose it would be *purely academic*, do you think you wouldn't learn anything you could use in practice? 11:22:31 topriddy: nobody has ever done anything with it 11:22:37 sjamaan: And please dont take sides, okay. Remember am your student and still dutifuly downloading the PLT Scheme you showed me. 11:22:40 Scheme has taught me to think in ways most PHP programmers wouldn't even dare to dream about 11:22:49 topriddy: go to #javascript, #ruby or #python 11:23:22 aha, flame war? 11:23:33 rmrfchik: troll spotted 11:23:41 shoot em 11:23:41 I didnt say its stupid. 11:24:07 *ventonegro* goes back to work 11:24:14 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 11:24:33 I just want to have a feel of what I can do with it. 11:24:33 Moreover my browser aint working right now, maybe its the stuff am downloading or my Internet Providers. 11:25:05 topriddy: we have commercial software writen in plt-scheme 11:25:08 good selling ;) 11:25:58 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:26:39 rmrfchik: Your company should go on that page. :-) 11:26:53 what page? 11:26:59 that one! 11:27:05 http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/lisp-companies/ :-) 11:27:06 the one! 11:27:16 leppie: Nice seeing you here again. :-) 11:27:26 duh 11:27:36 im always here :) nice to see you back from your reboot ;p 11:27:51 we're not lisp promoters, we just making money 11:27:51 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-153-96.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:27:53 leppie: Yeah, my ancient computer took 15 days to start up. :-) 11:28:10 cky: must be a lisp machine :) 11:28:23 yeah, i just saw your quit message, and then realized a few days later that your irc has not respawned yet 11:28:30 rmrfchik: Yeah, but if you're looking for more coders to join your team, that might be one of many possible resources to get heads turning. :-) 11:29:01 *cky* must admit to seriously considering applying to ITA Software, before I got my current job. 11:29:04 in russia? we get brains with other tools. 11:29:08 ways 11:29:15 rmrfchik: *lol* Nice, nice. 11:29:42 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [No route to host] 11:29:55 ventonegro: Hehehehe. :-) 11:31:14 my job offer might fall thru :( 11:31:32 leppie: You got a job offer from ITA Software?! Cool! 11:31:36 no 11:31:38 i wish 11:31:48 hi 11:32:16 im using a function to inversion number 11:32:18 leppie: Awww.... 11:32:27 so i need check if the inversion of number is the same number 11:32:28 no, a company made an offer, but they made it at a substancially lower rate than what I understood it to be 11:32:51 i write a function this invers 11:33:07 but i dont know how to do to do type (if (= n (inverse) #f) 11:33:11 leppie: Was that just a misunderstanding, or are they trying to rip you off? 11:33:13 inverse n 11:33:16 -!- karsten_ [n=karsten@82.135.98.205] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:33:18 it works out to about 60% of what my required rate is, but in that case I wont take it 11:33:29 !!!! That's a shocker! 11:33:52 yeah, not sure how that happened... 11:34:14 there must have been some misunderstanding... o well 11:34:20 still waiting to hear though 11:34:34 it might not be the case! :) 11:34:44 So? 11:34:48 leppie: I hope it was a misunderstanding and that they will match your requirement. If not, all the best with your next jobs! 11:34:51 *ventonegro* is in the same boat, looking for a job 11:35:23 ventonegro: Awww.... 11:35:38 Jobs are overrated. 11:35:42 and this one does not actually involve any web frontend work, so I really liked it 11:35:59 What does ITA do? 11:36:11 pbusser2: They make the backend software that powers Orbitz. 11:36:11 airline reservations IIRC 11:36:12 I wasn't really fired, but due to the crisis my employer will close this office, and I don't want to relocate 11:36:26 ventonegro: Oh no! 11:36:33 pbusser2: believe, I'd rather freelance 11:36:38 ventonegro: im in same boat, been retrenched twice this year 11:37:50 pbusser2: QPX (ITA Software's product) powers more sites that Orbitz, but that's the high profile one that everyone knows about. :-) 11:37:55 *than 11:38:29 Orbitz? Never heard of it. 11:38:38 *pbusser2* isn't everyone, apparently. :-) 11:38:40 It's an online air/travel booking site. 11:38:46 hi ^^ 11:38:47 Ah I see. 11:39:36 can someone give me an example of how to use apply ? 11:39:42 (apply 11:39:48 (apply + '(1 2 3)) == (+ 1 2 3) 11:39:53 anyone can help me with this function? (define (check_inverse n) (if (= (inverse n) n) #f) #t) 11:40:08 rudybot: eval (apply + (list 1 2 3 4 5)) 11:40:08 ventonegro: ; Value: 15 11:40:20 (apply + 1 2 '(3)) is the same as (apply + '(1 2 3)) 11:41:00 bigua: How about: (define (check_inverse n) (= n (inverse n))) 11:41:02 doesn't the function need # ? 11:41:09 (apply #'+ (1 2 3)) 11:41:10 ? 11:41:16 banisterfiend: not in scheme 11:41:18 banisterfiend: No, Scheme is a Lisp-1. 11:41:19 :p 11:41:21 cky if the result of inverse equals n i return false 11:41:22 banisterfiend: this is not common lisp :) 11:41:38 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:41:59 out of interest why did they add that to lisp2? it looks 'noisier' what was their reason? 11:42:17 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-153-96.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:42:24 bigua: Oh! (define (check_inverse n) (not (= n (inverse n)))) 11:42:25 :-P 11:42:34 not? :P 11:42:43 i dont like common lisp for that noise reason 11:42:52 someone knows? there must be a good reason for adding that to lisp2 surely 11:42:57 cky ah tru 11:43:02 i hate this i cant use if 11:43:03 >. bigua: Awwww.... 11:43:17 banisterfiend: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html 11:43:17 banisterfiend: namespaces and dynamic scoping i think 11:43:43 Okay, I'm off to sleep. leppie, ventonegro: All the best with finding work! :-D 11:43:52 thanks cky :) 11:43:54 cky: thanks! c ya 11:44:16 :-) 11:44:40 The Scheme version is more intuitive IMHO. 11:44:45 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 11:45:18 i love lexical scoping :) 11:47:06 yeah, it rocks 11:47:57 so how do you call a function in lisp1? 11:48:01 in lisp2 it's (funcall 11:48:13 (invoke a function object i mean) 11:48:34 just put the var in the operator position 11:49:03 oh ok 11:50:31 a-s [n=user@89.38.174.194] has joined #scheme 11:50:35 (define (funcall f arg1 arg2) (f arg1 arg2)) 11:52:29 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-53-238.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 11:55:16 -!- replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-153-96.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:57:37 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 12:00:19 tizoc__ [n=user@r190-135-55-25.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 12:02:42 hi 12:02:50 how i do a if sentence 12:02:54 with 3 more condtions? 12:03:16 type in C: if((a == 0) && (b == 0)) { bla bla; bla b;a} 12:04:04 r5rs cond 12:04:04 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_106 12:04:05 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/3gogwm 12:04:07 (if (and (zero? a) (zero? b)) then-sexp else-sexp) 12:07:34 ventonegro and if i need more 12:07:50 (if (and (zero? a) (zero? b) (zero? c)) then.. ? 12:07:58 yes 12:08:18 rudybot thanks! 12:10:23 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-10-115.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:10:45 -!- cracki [n=cracki@46-181.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:12:35 bigua (zero? (+ a b c)) 12:12:48 vixey just example 12:12:55 I am breaking your examplea 12:12:57 i need in really cay a function and do other things 12:13:01 call* 12:14:17 vixey: and what if a = 1, b = 1 and c = -2? 12:16:11 bitwise-and would be better 12:16:41 bitwise-or rather! 12:16:54 what if a = 0 b = 0 c = -0? 12:17:00 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 12:17:36 what about it? 12:17:57 leppie: don't feed them 12:18:15 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-53-238.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:18:49 ventonegro: fuck yourself 12:19:18 vixey: classy 12:19:21 oops 12:19:46 In a 1+7-bit sign-and-magnitude representation for integers, negative zero is represented by the binary value 10000000. In an 8-bit one's complement representation, negative zero is represented by the binary value 11111111 12:19:48 leppie ^ 12:22:27 vixey: u dont get negative zero in integer types, well not any I know of, in real's sure 12:22:52 leppie, yeah just being erroneous/pedantic for the fun of it 12:22:53 but (zero? (exact -0.0)) => #t 12:23:09 which would be required for bitwise ops 12:23:40 not being some grudge bearing daft twat like ventonegro 12:26:10 http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671723650 12:28:44 other question 12:28:50 in my condction 12:29:15 (if and (myfunction n) (myfunction b n)) then.. 12:29:22 myfunction return only #f and #t 12:29:36 fixing: (if (and... 12:29:42 bigua, is that your actual code? 12:29:52 no 12:29:59 re-writing 12:30:19 (if(and (myfunction n) (myfunctionb n)) then..)),, 12:30:34 myfunction and myfunctionb just return #t and #f 12:30:54 -!- tizoc__ is now known as tizoc 12:31:10 they can return any values except '() and #f 12:31:14 could you write it without dots? 12:31:17 I mean for #t 12:31:18 (and (a n) (b n) then) 12:31:29 () is true in scheme 12:31:39 common lisp uses () as false 12:32:15 wasabi___ [n=wasabi@ntoska310174.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:35:14 -!- topriddy [n=JAVABOY@80.255.61.29] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:38:09 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:43:47 is there a scheme equivalent to the ruby splat operator? 12:44:43 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska310174.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:44:51 omg i cant write my code 12:46:43 banisterfiend: it depends, what's the ruby splat operator? 12:47:44 (if (= (prime n) #t) 12:47:47 how i write it my god 12:47:54 i need check if prime is true 12:48:20 bigua: (if (prime? n) ...) 12:48:23 ventonegro: breaks open a list 12:48:36 but prime dont have ? 12:48:46 bigua: remove it? 12:48:46 (define (prime n) (= n (smallest-divisor n))) 12:48:49 yes 12:49:24 ventonegro: so if * is the splat operator then *(list 1 2 3 4) would expand to 1 2 3 4 (naked values) 12:49:34 . . =: expects type as 1st argument, given: #f; other arguments were: #t 12:50:38 banisterfiend: why do you need this? 12:51:41 ventonegro: no reason im just curious if lisp has it 12:51:45 banisterfiend: in some cases you use ,@, in others apply 12:51:51 cos it's actually a very useful feature in ruby 12:52:29 rudybot: eval `(first ,@(list 1 2 3 4)) 12:52:30 ventonegro: ; Value: (first 1 2 3 4) 12:52:42 banisterfiend: The great thing about lisps, is when something like a trivial list operation doesn't isn't in the standard library you can actually write it 12:52:59 cool 12:53:02 rudybot: eval (apply + 1 2 3 (list 4 5 6)) 12:53:02 ventonegro: ; Value: 21 12:53:03 banisterfiend: same with language constructs 12:53:08 vixey: write me a splat operator then ;) 12:53:39 (DEFINE (SPLAT LIST) (APPLY VALUES LIST)) 12:53:52 actually that's probably wrong 12:54:09 r5rs VALUES 12:54:10 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_572 12:54:10 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/yoye9g 12:54:45 clhs VALUES 12:54:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_values.htm 12:54:49 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:58:40 edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 12:58:42 hi 13:08:50 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@88.234.15.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:08:58 replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-153-96.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:10:43 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [] 13:13:07 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:17:33 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:27:25 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-153-96.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:30:03 -!- merlincorey [n=merlin@ip65-46-14-94.z14-46-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:31:07 hola 13:31:52 foof: olá! 13:31:55 how would i use (apply) in clisp? 13:32:10 in clisp use VALUES-LIST 13:32:20 clisp isn't scheme by the way 13:32:32 i know that 13:32:35 but im banned from #lisp 13:32:40 so i have to ask clisp questions here :( 13:32:42 me too :D 13:32:44 unless you know another clisp chan? 13:33:04 know of any other clisp chans? 13:33:09 so what are you in for 13:33:22 what was i banned for ? 13:33:40 i was drunk one night and pasted a porn link 13:33:42 stupidly 13:34:08 you? 13:34:33 being horrible 13:34:43 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:34:58 ventonegro: How's it going? 13:34:58 how long do the bans last? 13:35:05 forever 13:35:21 hmm 13:35:24 foof: i'm ok, thanks, and you? 13:35:34 sleepy :) 13:36:06 Too many things to do... 13:36:30 foof: you do a lot already :-) 13:36:41 foof: I have yet to try irregex 13:37:18 I still need to benchmark and optimize it :/ 13:38:09 hasn't the cl-ppcre package any benchmarks? 13:38:25 Not really. Not worthwhile. 13:38:45 :( 13:40:32 It'll also take some time to setup a benchmark framework that can measure and differentiate compile time, execute time and memory usage of the regex object, for both the DFA and backtracking NFA implementations. 13:41:03 ... but I'm behind schedule on my Master's thesis. 13:41:43 I suggest to focus on the thesis 13:44:35 what does the 'f' in setf mean? 13:45:13 fancy-schmancy 13:45:18 clhs SETF 13:45:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_setf.htm 13:45:59 it doesn't say 13:46:19 it means FORM 13:46:23 banisterfiend: set form 13:46:56 ah cool thanks 13:50:14 -!- ttmrichter_ [n=ttmricht@221.234.215.87] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:52:17 ttmrichter_ [n=ttmricht@59.172.140.197] has joined #scheme 13:53:36 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 13:53:59 isomer`` [n=isomer@99.233.115.216] has joined #scheme 13:54:21 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 13:55:13 benny` [n=benny@i577A04F2.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 13:57:25 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0A3F.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:00:55 *foof* falls asleep 14:02:31 *vixey* draws cats whiskers on foof 14:03:59 in cond 14:04:06 how i do 2 condtions in 1 line cond 14:04:55 isomer [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 14:08:03 type (cond ((myfunctiona n) (myfunctionb n) "bla") 14:08:10 myfunctiona and b need be true 14:08:11 ? 14:08:24 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-55-25.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:09:10 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-50-27.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 14:09:18 bigua, myfunctiona AND b need be true? 14:09:54 bigua, by the way, it in normal to write (my-function-a n) instead of (myfunctiona n) 14:10:08 vixey yes it´s like if (myfunc n) == 0 && (mfuncc b) == 0 14:10:24 i will try 14:10:25 wwhaoh what language is that 14:10:37 vixe i write it in C but i wanna write this condition in scheme 14:10:47 doesn't look like C :P 14:11:09 sam_ [n=Sami__@hoasnet-fe1add00-113.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 14:11:12 (AND (ZERO? (MYFUNC N)) (ZERO? (MYFUNCC B))) is the scheme version 14:11:31 yes 14:11:39 but in cond i write (and .. ? 14:11:52 (AND (ZERO? (MYFUNC N)) (ZERO? (MYFUNCC B))) in the COND 14:12:00 -!- isomer`` [n=isomer@99.233.115.216] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:12:09 bigua, the whole language is based on evaluation 14:12:29 bigua, so any subexpressions will be evaluated as normal expressions -- you can nest them as much 14:12:31 . and: bad syntax in: and 14:12:51 well i dont know if #t in scheme is zero 14:13:05 #t is not zero 14:13:11 r5rs ZERO? 14:13:11 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_264 14:13:13 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/6dnnyt 14:13:14 ^ here is the details 14:14:14 i will cry 14:16:20 -!- a-s [n=user@89.38.174.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:16:56 ok 14:17:10 . and: bad syntax in: and 14:17:23 i need do one cond line 14:17:23 bigua: exactly which codes gives this? 14:17:26 with 2 conditions 14:17:29 bigua: paste it exactly 14:17:38 where i can paste? 14:17:42 there i explain the line 14:17:56 ah paste here easy 14:18:02 vixey one line my cond have it: 14:18:07 ( (primo n) (primo (inverte n)) (cons n (primeiros (- n 1))) ) 14:18:13 bigue, the whole thing 14:18:21 (primo n) and (primo (inverte n)) is the condition 14:18:25 and cons is a command 14:18:28 but post the whole thing 14:18:34 case the both conditions is true 14:19:08 bigua, post the whole thing post the whole thing 14:19:16 i post it is 14:19:35 the whole thing 14:19:47 ( (primo n) (primo (inverte n)) (cons n (primeiros (- n 1))) ) <- here 14:19:55 that's not the whole thing 14:20:09 its one line of cond 14:20:12 i need fix it 14:20:12 ok 14:20:14 poste the whole thing 14:20:26 what is whole thing oh my god 14:20:30 oh my god!!! 14:20:37 I mean the whole thing of COND 14:20:41 ah 14:20:44 :) 14:21:03 (cond ( (< n 13) '() ) 14:21:03 ( (primo n) (primo (inverte n)) (cons n (primeiros (- n 1))) ) 14:21:03 (else (primeiros (- n 1)))) 14:21:25 ok 14:21:41 bigua, and where is the bit like: (AND (ZERO? (MYFUNC N)) (ZERO? (MYFUNCC B))) 14:21:44 ? 14:21:53 in primo n and primo (inverte n) 14:22:07 it's got to be in the COND 14:22:10 i need "prime n and primo (inverte n)" 14:22:28 bigua, prime n ---> AND <--- primo (inverte n) 14:22:42 bigua, AND (prime n) (primo (inverte n)) 14:22:46 bigua, (AND (prime n) (primo (inverte n))) 14:23:24 i didnt understand 14:23:27 :((((( 14:23:31 yes you did :) 14:23:52 wehre i put the and omg 14:23:53 :( 14:24:22 bigua, you return the single value (cons n (primeiros (- n 1)))? 14:24:31 yes it´s recurive 14:24:35 cool 14:24:55 vixey where i fix my and 14:25:03 bigua, you don't have any and? 14:25:11 no 14:25:19 ok put one :) 14:25:33 read: expected a `)' to close `('; indentation suggests a missing `)' 14:25:38 ( (and(primo n)(primo (inverte n)) (cons n (primeiros (- n 1))) ) 14:25:59 bigua, Do you use DrScheme or Emacs? 14:26:04 ah done 14:26:09 AHUhaUahuha 14:26:12 its work vixey 14:26:14 lol 14:26:18 ( (and(primo n)(primo (inverte n))) (cons n (primeiros (- n 1))) ) 14:26:19 ok good 14:26:31 i forget close it 14:26:31 eheheh 14:26:39 cool man , cool man 14:26:44 (  ) 14:28:45 ok what now 14:28:47 ? 14:29:43 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #scheme 14:37:02 -!- replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-153-96.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:39:00 -!- offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:39:00 -!- valiza2 [n=haroldo@r190-133-132-228.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:39:00 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:39:00 -!- vincenz [n=arli@li23-146.members.linode.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:39:00 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:39:01 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:39:01 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 14:39:07 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 14:39:24 vincenz [n=arli@li23-146.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 14:40:09 valiza1 [n=haroldo@r190-133-132-228.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 14:40:15 mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 14:57:42 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-56-155.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 14:58:16 geckosen1tor [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:00:12 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-50-27.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:02:09 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 15:02:41 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 15:03:27 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:04:19 npe [n=npe@32.97.110.63] has joined #scheme 15:04:27 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:11:19 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:12:51 -!- evoli [n=yuhsin@220-135-33-149.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:15:00 vixey i done 15:25:23 langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 15:31:02 mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 15:32:55 -!- mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:33:12 mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 15:38:36 -!- mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:38:50 mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 15:39:10 -!- mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:39:23 mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 15:39:30 mSphix_ [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 15:40:01 -!- mSphix_ [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:40:16 -!- mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 15:40:39 mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 15:41:49 -!- mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 15:42:06 mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 15:42:12 mSphix_ [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 15:47:06 -!- mSphix_ [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 15:47:06 -!- mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:47:21 mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 15:53:18 -!- banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit ["shadowy in red silk"] 15:53:46 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:54:01 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 15:57:48 -!- mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:58:09 mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 16:00:23 -!- mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 16:00:41 mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 16:03:36 -!- mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 16:04:08 mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 16:05:54 -!- olgen [n=jacobm@2005ds3-by.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 16:06:09 -!- mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 16:06:40 mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 16:07:06 -!- mSphix [n=msphix@aapi102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 16:09:44 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 16:24:02 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-066-227-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 16:24:11 -!- mike is now known as mike_______ 16:25:13 karsten_ [n=karsten@82.135.98.205] has joined #scheme 16:32:21 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-093-054.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 16:33:15 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:40:00 ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 16:40:24 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 16:40:50 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Client Quit] 16:44:40 krat3r [n=krat@wifi.ist.utl.pt] has joined #scheme 16:46:32 T_Blade_Gangsta_ [n=T_Blade_@pD9E32147.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 16:46:41 Hey leudes 16:46:50 was is des fürn chatt ?? 16:47:16 hi 16:47:21 Try English, please. 16:47:38 is it possible to join two strings in scheme to generate only one string 16:47:49 krat3r: `string-append' 16:47:51 ok ^^ 16:47:52 Such as with STRING-APPEND, krat3r? 16:47:59 tnks 16:48:02 How are you ?? 16:48:16 T_Blade_Gangsta_, also, try talking about Scheme. 16:48:51 What's scheme ?? 16:48:51 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:49:02 Try reading the topic. 16:49:53 I dont no 16:51:19 no 16:51:34 T_Blade_Gangsta_: Scheme is the programming language 16:53:10 -!- T_Blade_Gangsta_ [n=T_Blade_@pD9E32147.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 16:54:40 merlincorey [n=merlin@ip65-46-14-94.z14-46-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #scheme 17:02:29 also try using a nick that doesn't contain the string "Gangsta" 17:02:40 He left. 17:02:49 yes. 17:02:53 I told that Scheme is the programming language and he left 17:03:04 :( 17:03:40 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p4FC13BD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:04:10 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:04:28 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 17:04:34 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 17:04:36 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:04:57 vixey: Scheme's not "gangsta" enough 17:05:19 I bet he's using a real ghetto language like PHP 17:05:21 what is gangsta? F#? 17:06:16 It should be freenode policy that everyone has gangsta in the nick 17:07:34 no 17:10:03 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:10:55 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless41.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:12:18 umis_ [n=umis@82.193.124.116.ipnet.kiev.ua] has joined #scheme 17:17:42 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-26-105.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:18:06 crap, they've gotten all the way up to F? 17:18:44 Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:23:40 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #scheme 17:24:23 Microsoft must name languages the same way the US Weather Service names hurricanes. 17:24:45 alternating boy-girl-boy-girl 17:27:18 -!- umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:28:21 -!- umis_ [n=umis@82.193.124.116.ipnet.kiev.ua] has quit [] 17:29:39 Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 17:30:33 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:30:42 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 17:31:04 Hey leudes 17:32:56 GoNoGo [n=GoNoGo@cro34-3-82-236-93-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 17:34:10 -!- bigua [i=bigua@unaffiliated/bigua] has quit ["The 7 Deadly Sins: O caldo nobre da galinha azul.   [www.t7ds.com.br]"] 17:34:57 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 17:35:40 *offby1* scowls 17:36:57 *Daemmerung* takes a sad song and makes it better 17:38:37 Mr_Awesome_ [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #scheme 17:38:55 eww 17:40:50 vasa [n=vasa@mm-41-94-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 17:50:57 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:53:21 khisanth_ [n=Khisanth@151.204.133.122] has joined #scheme 17:53:24 -!- khisanth_ [n=Khisanth@151.204.133.122] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:05:39 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 18:06:27 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:14:17 -!- saccade [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:14:29 -!- Mr_Awesome_ [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:14:53 saccade [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:17:58 Mr_Awesome_ [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #scheme 18:30:43 -!- Debolaz [n=debolaz@nat.andersberle.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:31:18 Debolaz [n=debolaz@nat.andersberle.com] has joined #scheme 18:33:14 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055D09.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:39:12 araujo [n=araujo@190.37.174.213] has joined #scheme 18:39:14 pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 18:39:46 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:40:05 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 18:47:57 offby2 [n=Android@74.203.51.134] has joined #scheme 18:48:07 -!- pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:48:29 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p4FC13BD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:58:45 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-093-054.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:59:41 abebae [n=koi@ip68-225-12-32.pv.oc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 19:01:08 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 19:01:22 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@hoasnet-fe1add00-113.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 19:01:30 -!- abebae [n=koi@ip68-225-12-32.pv.oc.cox.net] has quit [] 19:01:45 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:02:21 abebae [n=koi@ip68-225-12-32.pv.oc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 19:03:28 -!- karsten_ [n=karsten@82.135.98.205] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:04:29 -!- abebae [n=koi@ip68-225-12-32.pv.oc.cox.net] has left #scheme 19:07:32 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@99.137.203.206] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:09:40 yawn 19:12:46 ejs [n=eugen@92.49.238.43] has joined #scheme 19:13:26 waterh [n=waterh@114.143.32.125] has joined #scheme 19:14:59 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 19:20:43 i double yawn 19:22:44 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:26:22 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 19:27:27 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:27:40 exexex [n=chatzill@85.101.220.116] has joined #scheme 19:30:48 I'll see your yawns and raise you 5. 19:32:42 i fold 19:33:59 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:37:08 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:38:50 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:43:22 ghuloum's compiler construction paper is right on 19:43:29 instant gratification :) 19:47:05 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-21-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 19:50:03 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-56-155.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:50:08 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 19:50:44 KingOfKarlsruhe [n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-252-201.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #scheme 19:53:05 jdijk [n=jerry@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has joined #scheme 19:56:22 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-41-94-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 19:56:22 -!- offby2 [n=Android@74.203.51.134] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:56:24 offby2_ [n=Android@74.203.51.134] has joined #scheme 19:57:00 offby2 [n=Android@m4f0436d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 19:58:06 -!- offby2_ [n=Android@74.203.51.134] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:58:19 offby2_ [n=Android@74.203.51.134] has joined #scheme 20:00:23 -!- offby2 [n=Android@m4f0436d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:01:53 -!- ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:06:11 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:06:15 -!- Starsie_ is now known as Starsie 20:07:15 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:07:32 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:07:39 offby2 [n=Android@m4d0e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 20:11:34 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 20:16:51 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 20:17:10 langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 20:18:58 -!- Deformati [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:19:02 Def [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:21:22 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 20:23:58 -!- offby2_ [n=Android@74.203.51.134] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:24:03 -!- offby2 [n=Android@m4d0e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit ["AndroidIrc Disconnecting"] 20:24:15 offby2 [n=Android@m4d0e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 20:25:06 edw` [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 20:25:15 -!- mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:25:26 mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has joined #scheme 20:25:45 -!- krat3r [n=krat@wifi.ist.utl.pt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:26:14 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:26:48 -!- jdijk [n=jerry@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has quit [] 20:31:26 -!- GoNoGo [n=GoNoGo@cro34-3-82-236-93-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]"] 20:34:42 sam_ [n=Sami__@hoasnet-fe1add00-113.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 20:34:46 -!- offby2 [n=Android@m4d0e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit ["AndroidIrc Disconnecting"] 20:34:57 offby2 [n=Android@m4d0e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 20:35:52 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@hoasnet-fe1add00-113.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 20:40:44 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 20:40:48 -!- offby2 [n=Android@m4d0e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit ["AndroidIrc Disconnecting"] 20:40:54 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 20:41:00 offby2 [n=Android@m4d0e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 20:45:26 -!- Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:45:30 -!- offby2 [n=Android@m4d0e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:45:53 offby2 [n=Android@m4d0e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 20:48:23 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 20:51:13 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:51:32 Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 20:53:24 annodomini [n=lambda@216-107-218-130.Boloco.static.cust.seg.net] has joined #scheme 20:53:38 choas [n=lars@p5B0DDB2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:53:48 damonwang [n=damonwan@pool-72-88-153-123.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:56:50 -!- offby2 [n=Android@m4d0e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit ["AndroidIrc Disconnecting"] 20:58:09 -!- valiza1 [n=haroldo@r190-133-132-228.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:58:23 Let me know if this is the wrong place to ask. I'd like to implement eratosthenes' sieve with a rather large vector (up to 3MB). Does mzscheme have something like pass-by-reference so it doesn't get copied every time I call a function on it? 20:58:40 damonwang, yes it does 20:59:03 damonwang, one quick way is to just shove it in a cons cell, or a length 1 vector 20:59:11 offby2 [n=Android@m4d0e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 20:59:14 .. actually is length 1 vector correct (?) 20:59:32 offby2_ [n=Android@74.203.51.134] has joined #scheme 20:59:38 vixey, is this documented anywhere? I just started Scheme, and it's really confusing how many different versions there are floating around 20:59:50 vectors don't get copied at all on procedure call 20:59:52 well R5RS covers everything 20:59:55 R5RS CONS 20:59:55 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_390 20:59:56 So you don't have to do anything 20:59:57 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/6pd7cx 21:00:17 so if you are just starting maybe you should skim SICP too though 21:01:28 Sorry, I'm actually about two chapters into SICP but then I started going through projecteuler.net in Scheme as exercises. I was looking for documentation on tricks like using a cons to pass by reference, not documentation of cons itself 21:02:20 ok 21:02:22 I don't know 21:02:24 damonwang: everyting in scheme is pass-by-reference 21:02:25 damonwang: like sjamaan said, vectors are never copied implicitly. Actually, nothing gets copied. 21:02:28 afaik 21:02:31 (implicitly) 21:02:32 I think folk here know every trick :p 21:02:32 -!- offby2 [n=Android@m4d0e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:02:43 damonwang: http://schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-6.html#%_sec_3.4 21:02:44 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/6ebyal 21:02:51 This explains Scheme's storage model 21:03:04 damonwang: for cases where you want to pass a "simple" value by reference, use boxes (which are similar to mutable one-element vectors) 21:03:08 eli, I 'm sure someone was frightening me with vectors being copied in tricky situations though... 21:03:40 vixey: Sounds like FUD :) 21:03:41 vixey: no. Unless you're using some vector copying function (or a library call that does so), they should never be copied. 21:04:17 Ah, thanks a lot 21:04:43 That storage model link was what I was looking for 21:04:49 yw 21:04:53 aneqrs [n=andreas@c83-253-104-206.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 21:05:24 So (cons previously-allocated-thing another-previously-allocated-thing) allocates a place in memory to store pointers to these two things 21:05:39 and car just dereferences those pointers? 21:06:06 I think that's a possible implementation 21:06:26 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:06:34 doesnt clojure use 21:06:40 something like that? 21:07:07 -!- waterh [n=waterh@114.143.32.125] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:07:22 Oh, wait, yeah, scheme has a lot of different implementations, doesn't it? 21:07:42 Hmm, yeah, R5RS just says vectors usually have faster random access than lists 21:07:58 But it doesn't guarantee constant-time access. 21:08:12 It's reasonable to assume constant time access 21:08:24 Okay. 21:15:30 replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-26-105.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 21:17:45 valiza1 [n=haroldo@r190-133-136-103.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 21:19:53 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 21:32:53 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-26-105.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:37:35 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:37:48 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DDB2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:38:48 Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 21:40:55 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:43:26 offby2 [n=Android@m4a0436d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 21:52:08 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92.49.238.43] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:54:58 -!- offby2_ [n=Android@74.203.51.134] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:58:54 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe [n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-252-201.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:03:25 _8david [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #scheme 22:07:18 It's reasonable to assume at least logarithmic-time access. There are such implementations out there (rather specialized ones). 22:07:20 saccade_ [n=saccade@18.188.72.216] has joined #scheme 22:08:11 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@18.188.72.216] has quit [Client Quit] 22:12:18 ventonegro [i=alex@189-95-157-116.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #scheme 22:15:20 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 22:16:06 arcfide [n=arcfide@99.137.203.206] has joined #scheme 22:16:40 sam_ [n=Sami__@hoasnet-fe1add00-113.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 22:17:51 krat3r [n=krat@bl4-33-97.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:20:54 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:21:46 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:22:07 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-24-125.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 22:22:13 offby1: ping 22:22:27 offby2: ping 22:23:10 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:23:19 ,@(for ([i (in-range 10)]) (string->symbol (format "offby~a" i))): ping 22:23:37 :) 22:25:12 I thought that Scheme provides "iota". :) 22:25:16 :p 22:25:22 hi ASau 22:25:24 It does 22:25:37 I know. 22:25:52 Some people prefer obscure macros :P 22:26:33 *ventonegro* prefers SRFIs 22:26:35 After IOTA one still must iterate over the list. 22:27:16 Isn't there "map"? 22:27:31 ASau: Map is the incorrect operation for this task. 22:27:55 Actually, I'm not sure exactly what eli was doing there. As far as I can tell, that loop produces no output and no interesting value, unless I misunderstand PLT's FOR. 22:27:58 Why? 22:28:25 Yes, sorry. That's probably why offbyN didn't reply. 22:28:30 ,@(for/list ([i (in-range 10)]) (string->symbol (format "offby~a" i))): ping 22:28:43 In that case MAP is the correct operation. 22:29:05 Ah, yes. 22:29:24 *eli* isn't using srfi-1 in his meta-world 22:31:04 And anyway, using `iota'+`map' would be less efficent, without proper deforestation. 22:31:18 (or lazy evaluation.) 22:31:32 It depends on optimiser. 22:31:48 "...without proper deforestation." 22:32:12 AFAIR, iota is present in R5RS. 22:32:15 I'm not aware of any Scheme compiler that will deforest IOTA and MAP. 22:32:16 Nope. 22:32:19 SRFI-1 just extends it. 22:32:20 ASau: no 22:32:40 eli: lazy evaluation only won't do it 22:33:22 ventonegro: it makes it possible to allocate a single cons-cell at a time. 22:33:51 This means that it will work just fine in case we have a very large number of offbyNs. 22:34:19 'map f $ iota n' will first evaluate iota completely 22:34:40 err 22:34:55 No, it won't. 22:35:09 If that's haskell, I have no recollection what `$' is supposed to do. If it's something else, I don't know what you mean. 22:35:22 eli, ($) = id, or f $ x = f x 22:35:39 Riastradh: I can't see why not, in the absence of deforestation 22:35:48 Then what's the point? 22:35:56 eli, apparently parentheses are scary, or something. 22:36:21 ventonegro, suppose you ask for the first element of the result of (map f (iota n)). That requires the first element of (iota n), and the value of f applied to that element. What else does it need? 22:36:32 if this is really the story, then I should slap whoever thought that `$' is more readable than parentheses. 22:36:56 eli: count me in 22:37:12 -!- replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-26-105.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:37:15 :) 22:37:25 eli, that's really the story. Also, dots (composition) are thrown in for fun. So rather than (map foo (filter bar? (map baz (iota quux)))), you'll see such beauties as: map foo . filter bar? . map baz $ iota quux 22:37:40 Riastradh: being lazy means if I never need (iota n), it won't be evaluated 22:37:43 (You can put dollars in the place of dots, from right to left, if you want, too.) 22:37:57 Riastradh: it doesn't mean it'll be evaluated piecewise 22:38:00 ventonegro, it means more than just that. In order to find the first element of (iota n), what must you compute? 22:38:12 Riastradh: Aren't dots function compositions? 22:38:15 eli, yes. 22:38:54 eli, but it doesn't matter whether you write (map foo . filter bar? . map baz) $ (iota quux) or (map foo . filter bar?) $ (map baz $ (iota quux)), which is where Haskell will put the parentheses. 22:39:32 Riastradh: you're asking on the assumption that, without deforestation, the evaluator of (iota n) will "know" where to stop 22:39:50 Hm. 22:39:52 (.) is actually a good thing though 22:39:53 eli, so you're welcome to write: map foo $ filter bar? $ map baz $ iota $ quux or map foo . filter bar? . map baz . iota $ quux 22:39:57 ($) is horrible and bad 22:40:04 (Actually, I lied. The question mark screws everything up.) 22:40:06 but (.) is assocative, has a unit, etc.. 22:40:10 ventonegro, deforestation is a red herring. 22:40:22 Riastradh: instead of `iota', suppose a list of sums is returned 22:40:30 ($) doesn't have any useful algebraic properties 22:40:31 That example above is almost as long as straightforward One True Language, 22:40:31 only way harder to read. 22:40:33 I don't know why people use it 22:40:37 (loop for i from 1 to 9 do (format *standard-output* "offby~D~%" i)) 22:41:04 Riastradh: the WHNF of the list will always be returned, but the sums themselves won't be evaluated 22:41:17 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 22:41:24 Riastradh: I think that compose actually does make sense, at least in the sense that implicit currying can be hard to read. But if `$' is really just identity, then that has no such excuse. 22:41:29 *eli* runs out... 22:41:35 eli, yep, ($) really is just the identity. 22:42:23 *klutometis* is addressing #scheme from his new job in palo alto, ca. 22:42:25 All thanks to lengty "standard-output". 22:42:33 ASau, try T instead. 22:42:59 Did it succede shipping garbage collector? 22:43:13 I meant: T rather than *STANDARD-OUTPUT*. 22:43:17 What do you mean? 22:43:19 Ah. 22:43:30 T has pretty much always had a working garbage collector. 22:44:01 Yeah. With T it comes into reasonable size. 22:44:08 ventonegro, yes...but if you want just the first element, you don't need to compute the rest of the elements. 22:44:49 Riastradh: no, I don't, but the compiler can't always catch that... 22:45:00 This LOOP macro is really dizzy. 22:45:18 That has nothing to do with the compiler, ventonegro. Optimization is a red herring if we're talking about non-strict evaluation semantics. 22:45:35 Let's say we're talking Scheme, and using lazy evaluation. 22:46:14 (define (integers-from n) (delay (cons (begin (write n) (newline) n) (integers-from (+ n 1))))) 22:46:41 If we define STREAM-TAKE appropriately, then we can define (IOTA n) to be (STREAM-TAKE n (INTEGERS-FROM 0)). 22:47:04 If we define STREAM-MAP appropriately, we can get a new stream from that, say a stream of offbyN's. 22:47:05 underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 22:47:27 And if I force the stream of offbyN's, and fetch its car (offby0), the only output of this program will be 0. 22:47:28 Riastradh: thanks, I finally got it 22:47:52 -!- edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:47:55 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:49:03 Riastradh: fortunately you're patient :) 22:49:42 lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.207] has joined #scheme 22:52:54 -!- mike_______ [n=mike@dslb-088-066-227-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:54:52 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:56:04 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 22:56:12 -!- npe [n=npe@32.97.110.63] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:57:12 -!- saccade [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:02:56 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 23:03:18 I assume PLT-specific questions are best asked on this channel? 23:03:48 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-21-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:04:49 *rotty* will try to get sbank running on mzscheme, and hence probably run into issues 23:05:32 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-13-174.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 23:06:17 -!- offby2 [n=Android@m4a0436d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:07:07 Better here than #gambit or #chicken, most likely. 23:07:55 btw, is there a decent, up-to-date binding of GTK+ for PLT? a quick google didn't turn up anything interesting... 23:08:09 Daemmerung: heh 23:08:27 *rotty* thought #guile would be most fitting :-p 23:08:53 (sbank would fill that gap, if there is one) 23:09:36 No. PLT has its own Xlib binding, based on an ancient wx fork. 23:11:01 Daemmerung: yeah, I know about that thingy. good to hear a GTK+ binding is lacking on PLT ;-) 23:12:14 the sbank port makes more sense this way -- I mostly will do it as a proof-of-concept, and to have a platform with potentially better debugging support 23:12:24 PLT's thrust is towards portable solutions. Hence it's weak for X-specific or Windows-specific stuff. 23:13:03 well, I don't give a second thought to Windows-specific stuff :-) 23:13:26 (as a Windows guy, you should take anything I say about X with a couple of kilos of salt.) 23:13:59 and gobject-introspection/GTK+ should be portable, even to Windows, /methinks 23:14:21 jonrafkind would know more about the X stuff than I do. 23:14:27 Daemmerung: do you use PLT as your main platform? 23:14:32 yeah. 23:14:36 what do I know 23:14:44 jonrafkind: aren't you kazzmir? 23:14:47 any chance I could get some direction on a recursive descent parser for arithmetic expressions? I've written the grammar but am having trouble moving forward. I know it should be easy but I've been working on it for a couple days already. 23:14:52 yea.. oh because I wrote the x11 lib? 23:14:56 Yeah. 23:15:14 well I know a little.. binding with the ffi is really easy ;) 23:15:16 baklava-: do you have any code to share? 23:15:59 My main concern about X is not breaking PLT on it when I make a Windows tweak. 23:16:05 there was a gtk binding to plt somewhere.. i saw it years ago 23:16:09 klutometis: well I write a little then scrap it, repeat... it's more that I don't know how to go about it than I know what I want and my code isn't working 23:16:25 saccade [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 23:16:32 jonrafkind: maybe mzgtk2, which seems to have quietly gone away 23:17:02 jonrafkind: I saw some very outdated one when doing a casual google 23:17:03 rotty: http://www.anderware.com/mzgtk/ 23:17:20 "Let synx Google(tm) that for you" 23:17:25 Needless to say it's a bit dated 23:17:25 yeah... 23:18:08 Hey the less of us who have to use Google, the better. 23:20:23 synx: thanks. seems like that's handwritten C code for every bound method - must be horrible to write and maintain... 23:20:49 rotty: I wasn't recommending it, that's for sure! 23:21:22 It is hard though, because C header files are so hard to parse, I often end up having to write a lot of boilerplate. 23:21:24 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:21:45 synx: that part after ".thanks" wasn't directed specifically at you :-) 23:22:01 synx: you know about gobject-introspection? 23:22:10 klutometis: I was trying to make a function for each non-terminal... so the start symbol took in a list, checked if the first character was (, then went to the non-terminal to check which operation it was, used cond to look through them... but I'm trying to do some code generation and realized I can't simply print an addop once I see the + because I haven't gotten to the two arguments yet. 23:23:30 *rotty* thinks g-i is one of the best things since sliced bread, at least regarding bindings and GNOME 23:23:58 rotty: no 23:24:17 I do think that introspection is the best thing since sliced bread though. 23:24:53 ah. https://www.elemental-programming.org/wiki/mzgtk2.html 23:24:55 synx: http://live.gnome.org/GObjectIntrospection 23:25:26 (that's a pretty flaky site- it just returned from the dead for me) 23:25:40 synx: if you refer to introspection in general, I'd be tempted to agree 23:27:09 synx: with g-i, you can eliminate all the chore work of parsing headers, as you get C type signatures annotated with extra data needed for doing bindings corectly (e.g. memory ownership transfer) 23:27:25 computer, know thyself 23:29:48 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 23:32:37 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 23:32:49 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:32:59 bpt_ [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:33:44 -!- aneqrs [n=andreas@c83-253-104-206.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:40:36 -!- lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.207] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 23:41:36 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has left #scheme 23:41:43 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@hoasnet-fe1add00-113.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:50:24 synx: in case you're interested, I'm doing a g-i based binding project, currently developed on and for Ikarus, but I'll start a port to PLT soon. Snapshot of README (WIP) in HTML is at http://rottyforge.yi.org/~rotty/tmp/sbank-README.html 23:52:25 (code at https://rottyforge.yi.org/cgi-bin/darcsweb.cgi?r=sbank;a=summary) 23:52:43 (you can 's/https/http/') 23:53:17 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [] 23:53:24 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme