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04:45:04 That's a rather indirectatious mannerism by which to invokerate the lexicographical construction of `indirection'. 04:47:15 Riastradh: I was about to point to the OED and say, ``behold: my hypersyllabic corollary to `indirection' is corroborate;'' but, alas, indirectitude is not to be found. 04:52:54 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:56:17 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 05:16:01 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-203-206.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:18:53 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@220.157.86.160] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:18:58 Ashy [n=User@220.157.86.160] has joined #scheme 05:35:25 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-9-176.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 05:41:51 how's everyone doing/ 05:41:52 ? 05:43:07 evoli [n=yuhsin@220-135-33-149.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 05:47:58 Uh, does anyone use ctax? 05:50:18 Or, does anyone use an alternate syntax to s-expressions? 05:50:23 No. 05:52:21 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:53:26 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-2-3.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:55:33 I fail to see how anyone would use srfi 49. 05:56:25 ozy` [n=vt920@soln-sr1268.solutionip.com] has joined #scheme 05:56:37 That's why nobody does. 06:03:48 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 06:04:34 -!- karlw [n=user@dsl081-068-221.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has left #scheme 06:15:19 proqesi`` [n=user@97-115-54-153.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 06:15:33 incubot: who will befree me from interminable malaise that vergeth on insouciance? 06:15:36 r6rs is an interminable wagnerian opera 06:15:44 yes! 06:16:06 haha 06:16:28 I got an email from RMS today, he didn't know what year guile was created 06:16:48 s/know/remember/ 06:19:18 -!- proqesi`` is now known as proqesi 06:20:50 -!- evoli [n=yuhsin@220-135-33-149.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:27:14 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:27:30 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:36:52 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:40:16 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:53:02 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["strawberry"] 07:17:27 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:18:40 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:26:19 -!- Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:30:23 geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:36:27 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:43:23 banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #scheme 07:43:24 hey 07:43:35 how come (last ...) returns a list instead of just the element? 07:45:56 probably due to input like '(1 2 . 3) 07:46:56 banisterfiend, weird... I just did: (define a (list 1 2 3 4)) and (last a) and it returned: 4 07:46:57 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:47:23 well im actually using common lisp 07:47:26 *CaptainMorgan* wishes he knew how to work the bot.. 07:47:29 ah.. 07:47:29 offby1 [n=user@206.124.138.125] has joined #scheme 07:47:51 but it would be surprising if that behaviour would be different in scheme/cl 07:47:56 you're using CL and asking a question in #Scheme? :) 07:48:33 CaptainMorgan: just do this: (last (list 1 2 3 4)) 07:48:36 banisterfiend: oh, I thought you were using elisp 07:48:36 and tell me what you get 07:48:48 4 07:48:52 elisp and clisp behave the same in this example 07:49:35 hmm 07:50:10 banisterfiend: sbcl returns (4) 07:50:33 yeah i know 07:50:40 but apparently scheme just returns 4 07:51:01 i wanna know the rationale behind clisp/elisp returning a list 07:51:01 well that's interesting... 07:51:09 me too 07:51:33 -!- offby1 [n=user@206.124.138.125] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:51:44 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 07:52:00 banisterfiend: not for me.. elisp returns (4) 07:52:11 that's what i said proqesi.... 07:52:18 rudybot: eval (last (list 1 2 3 4)) 07:52:18 leppie: ; Value: 4 07:52:23 :) 07:52:33 rudybot: eval (last '(1 2 3 . 4)) 07:52:33 leppie: error: last: expected argument of type ; given (1 2 3 . 4) 07:52:41 banisterfiend: oh, sorry I misread 07:52:51 np 07:54:03 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:54:19 rudybot: eval (last-pair '(1 2 3 . 4)) 07:54:19 leppie: ; Value: (3 . 4) 07:54:29 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-137.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:54:30 rudybot: eval (last-pair (list 1 2 3 4)) 07:54:30 leppie: ; Value: (4) 07:54:35 there you go 07:55:36 leppie, what does that assume? that maybe it evaluates to (3 4), the last pair? and then (4) ? 07:56:42 no it shows that last in elisp is equavilnet to last-pair in scheme, and last in scheme means something else 07:57:02 interesting 07:59:11 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 08:03:32 actually it depends what elisp returns for (last '(1 2 . 3)) 08:06:07 elisp returns (2.3) 08:06:10 then it is the same :) 08:06:12 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 08:14:55 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 08:16:26 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Connection reset by beer"] 08:20:15 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 08:28:07 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:28:17 geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:31:08 AshyIsMe [n=User@220.157.86.160] has joined #scheme 08:31:41 evoli [n=yuhsin@220-135-33-149.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 08:32:10 -!- 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quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:59:26 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 13:02:20 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-134-133.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:28:35 replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-134-133.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:33:02 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 13:38:40 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:39:29 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit ["leaving"] 13:52:55 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-134-133.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:54:43 benny` [n=benny@i577A0A3F.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 14:04:59 how do we do currying in scheme? 14:05:42 You'll need fresh onions, a blender, possibly a mortar and pestle, a deep pan and either a quite good electric or halogen range or any gas range. 14:05:58 and about 45 minutes 14:06:09 Chick peas and lentils also go well, and if you're really adventurous you might want to consider baking your own flatbread. 14:06:13 good for 4-6 uses 14:06:20 Parathas in particular go really well with curry. 14:07:25 xwl [n=user@221.221.162.216] has joined #scheme 14:07:51 banisterfiend, can you explain your desire more accurately? 14:08:48 (there's an inverse correlation between the accuracy in your question and the level of mockery in the response you receive around here, generally) 14:09:48 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1497.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:09:53 Why? 14:10:55 gnomon: do you advise vinegar as an ingredient and if so to be added at the paste stage or later on before serving? 14:12:01 just write (DEFINE F (LAMBDA (X) (LAMBDA (Y) (LAMBDA (Z) ... instead of (DEFINE (F X Y Z) ... 14:12:36 im just curious to what extend lisp supports alot of the theoretical functional constructs 14:12:44 and how it compares to languages like haskell in that 14:13:02 It's called lambda banisterfiend 14:14:18 banisterfiend, I haven't had a lot of personal success with vinegar, but to be honest my efforts in that area have been far from exhaustive. 14:15:10 banisterfiend, Scheme in particular and lisp in general can be made to work reasonably well with currying, but the base language allows rather than encourages it. 14:15:27 not sure why you'd want to compare, implementation wise these languages are totally different 14:15:34 gnomon: well if you're using vinegar (as per VINdaloo curry) i suggest you add 1 T of brown sugar, sugar and vinegar go well together and give a real tang and spark to an otherwise ordinary curry 14:16:20 vixey: because im reading a book about pure functional programming (lambda calculus and all that) actually im not reading it, im about to read it, and i was just curious of a good language to use when i start applying some of this stuff 14:16:30 all that "combinator" stuff 14:16:30 lol 14:16:36 which book? 14:16:45 let me find its title holdon 14:16:48 it's an e-book 14:17:52 ok it seems to be university of cambridge course notes, but it's in book form and it's called 'introduction to functional programming' 14:18:07 sounds like a haskell book 14:18:10 i dont want to use ML (which he suggests) because that's a little bit too arcane, i'd like to use a semi mainstream language 14:18:26 *Elly* really likes ML :P 14:18:33 that still supports, without too much syntactic noise, alot of all that 'combinator' stuff 14:18:42 ML and its variants are quite excellent for some tasks. 14:18:51 "the modern functional language Haskell" is arcane? 14:19:04 "* Haskell *" is arcane. 14:19:09 (yeap i dont yet really konw what a 'combinator' is but i guess they're something that certain languages support better than others in a clean way) 14:19:28 wtf is yeap 14:19:39 banisterfiend, if you -really- want to focus on combinator work, take a look at Joy and/or Factor... 14:19:41 yeap is how we say yes in ewzealand 14:19:45 newzealand 14:19:51 ...and note that was not a serious suggestion. 14:20:04 I can't even imagine how to pronounce it 14:20:16 can i do the combinator stuff in scheme though without too much line noise? 14:20:31 i've seen it done in ruby before and it looked ugly as hell 14:20:50 ((S K) K) 14:22:27 banisterfiend: look at srfi-26: http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-26/ 14:23:00 thanks 14:23:23 i have not used it ever though 14:23:33 banisterfiend, you won't have trouble doing combinator work in Scheme, and you won't have trouble finding help with it. 14:23:51 cheers 14:23:58 now it's time to read the book :) 14:24:04 just be aware this SRFI has nothing to do with currying 14:24:19 it's just fancy notation for partial application.... 14:24:20 We already covered that up above: brown sugar and vinegar. 14:26:40 (haha leppie, that document describes a macro called 'cute' (read 'cut' and then 'e')) 14:26:55 Yup. 14:27:02 cute. 14:27:06 ;) 14:27:18 I really like SRFI-26, but it's a guilty pleasure: it's mostly useful for making Scheme look more like line noise. 14:27:34 Bah. 14:27:56 Ignore everything I say today. I'm in a bad mood, and it seems that even when I'm trying to be helpful, what comes out is negative. 14:28:04 Apologies all around. 14:28:08 I get annoyed by any SRFI that can be (sensibly) implemented in R5RS without implementation support 14:28:20 vixey, are you mad? 14:28:24 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-134-133.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:28:24 It really isn't something to be annoyed about .. 14:28:27 yes I am mad 14:28:41 negative? compared to the ppl in #lisp and #c you're like one of the princesses in my little pony 14:28:56 heh 14:28:57 I just wish that SRFIs all required implementation support. there seems to be not good reason for having bits of normal scheme code in them 14:28:57 Oh, my mother would be so proud. 14:29:06 jeje 14:29:08 you keep princesses inside a little pony? 14:29:09 vixey: why does that upset you so much? 14:29:09 vixey: Why do you find that annoying? 14:29:16 vixey: Do you dislike srfi-1, for example? 14:29:30 it goes against my (wrong) idea about what SRFIs are 14:29:36 vixey, not a good reason? You'd prefer that there were no way for a clean and well-defined library to achieve cross-implementation support? 14:30:04 vixey: you are saying you get anoyed by the ones that are 100% portable? 14:30:04 gnomon, I would prefer R5RS had a module system.. :S 14:30:10 no I don't actually like SRFI-1 14:30:36 It's probably very useful for some people but I've not used it 14:30:48 banisterfiend, as a newcomer to this channel, you may not realize that vixey just branded him/her/ver/it/themself/ves a heretic. 14:31:17 *sjamaan* thinks srfi-1 and srfi-13 the most useful srfi's of all 14:31:26 hehe, well last time i was here vixey was getting a 10 minute long telling off by Riastradh 14:31:27 I like SRFI-69 14:31:39 that's got a data structure I can't be bothered implementing in it 14:31:39 so i think he's probably a bit of a rogue on #scheme 14:31:44 vixey, all rhetoric aside, I'm actually really quite surprised that you've never used SRFI-1. It and 13 are SRFI jewels. 14:32:05 *vixey* has to admit not knowing SRFI-13 by number.. looks it up 14:32:11 vixey: strings 14:32:14 *gnomon* is a Shivers fanboy 14:32:19 I admit it. 14:32:21 *sjamaan* too 14:32:46 His scsh rant is enough to make anyone a fan :) 14:32:50 *leppie* does not really use SRFI's as R6RS provides most of what I need :) 14:32:59 Ooh, that reminds me, I need to print that out and post it. 14:33:05 ok 13 looks good 14:33:09 post it? 14:33:22 but I never really did string stuff like that in Scheme... 14:33:34 vixey: Do you program in scheme at all? ;) 14:33:42 mostly parsing/munging tokens in lists instead of strings 14:33:51 sjamaan, I have an aggressively undecorated desk at the office, and it's beginning to attract comment. I intend to address the comments by posting things that probably ought not to be posted, always in the same place, always one sheet of paper with text on it. 14:34:07 Cool 14:35:04 *sjamaan* put the "Programming - you're doing it completely wrong" picture of McCarthy on the office's whiteboard 14:35:19 Together with Dijkstra's "Quick and Dirty - I would not like it" 14:35:22 sjamaan, you too? Hah! 14:35:24 :P 14:35:30 Mine was taken down about three weeks ago. 14:35:34 aww 14:35:44 I suspect that the miscreants responsible may now be re-gruntled. 14:35:54 :) 14:36:08 sjamaan, what scsh rant? 14:36:25 dsmith: The one in the preface to the manual 14:36:29 http://www.scsh.net/docu/html/man.html 14:36:35 ^ 14:36:52 Hah. 14:37:00 It's an inspirational work of art. 14:37:02 Yea, that's fun. 14:41:37 *dsmith* confesses to having the McCarthy poster on his wall too 14:44:49 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:45:07 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 14:45:24 -!- replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-134-133.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:50:38 -!- DuClare [n=duclare@a81-197-106-84.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:50:54 DuClare [n=duclare@a81-197-106-84.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 14:57:39 -!- xwl [n=user@221.221.162.216] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:58:29 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 15:03:48 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-134-133.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:07:26 lugg [i=lugg@cpe-74-67-173-240.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:07:46 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 15:10:29 karsten_ [n=karsten@82.135.98.205] has joined #scheme 15:24:45 synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:27:22 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:31:31 xlq [n=xlq@88-106-90-228.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 15:51:47 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-69-254-76-231.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:58:10 *gnomon* wrote fanmail to Melissa O'Neill. You should too. 16:03:39 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:09:09 -!- edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:13:27 vasa [n=vasa@mm-96-92-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 16:14:15 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:16:49 Concerning what specifically, gnomon? 16:19:49 -!- certainty [n=closure@dslb-082-083-135-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:21:41 Riastradh, concerning the not-really-sieve-of-Eratosthenes that many lazy PL folks like to hold up as an example of brevity. 16:22:05 Whether I meant to apply the adjective 'lazy' to the language(s) or the people is left as a decision for the reader. 16:24:06 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:24:27 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-15-61.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:25:43 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #scheme 16:26:13 macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:27:52 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:28:01 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:28:21 ...and, rather more specifically, the paper that she wrote on the topic: http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~oneill/papers/Sieve-JFP.pdf 16:29:05 ozy` [n=vt920@soln-sr1268.solutionip.com] has joined #scheme 16:30:38 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@soln-sr1268.solutionip.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:30:56 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:34:37 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 16:40:04 by the way isn't that paper really old 16:41:08 oops 16:41:09 http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~oneill/papers/Sieve-JFP-Old.pdf 16:41:12 that's the old one 16:41:49 $ curl -I http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~oneill/papers/Sieve-JFP.pdf 2> /dev/null | grep '^Last-Modified' 16:41:52 Last-Modified: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 07:05:04 GMT 16:41:57 yeah 16:42:02 I guess it's a revision 16:42:21 there was a version out a couple years ago I think 16:42:44 so lazy quicksort is broken too 16:47:16 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 16:50:47 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-96-92-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 16:57:32 -!- Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:57:53 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:00:08 vasa [n=vasa@mm-96-92-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 17:03:30 -!- lugg [i=lugg@cpe-74-67-173-240.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [] 17:08:33 -!- Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:10:29 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFFC88.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:18:26 -!- xlq [n=xlq@88-106-90-228.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has left #scheme 17:24:46 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 17:25:19 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:35:53 -!- Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:36:17 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:43:49 Hello! I wonder what kind of class modules schemers use (if any), and how to map them to databases? Somehow the class stuff that comes with pltscheme seems rather complicateD? 17:46:31 evoli [n=yuhsin@220-135-33-149.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 17:50:09 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 17:57:14 incubot: Are you an object or a subject? 17:57:16 hm. i can return empty-list from the reader rather than eof-object if i slightly change the semantics of a pathological case 17:57:52 incubot: What do you think object-oriented programming is all about? 17:57:53 one was an annoying introduction to programming course taught in java. the other was a fairly cool problem solving oriented algorithms and data structures course. taught in first and second semesters, respectively. 17:57:59 -!- Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:58:39 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:58:57 iion_tichy: as for mapping to databases, there's only the (pretty basic) snooze module by untyped, which works on structs 18:00:06 karsten: hm, I think snooze only serializes? That is no good... 18:00:24 So there are no O/R mappers yet? 18:00:59 iion_tichy: no, it maps fields of the struct to database table. but there's no versioning, types are limited to int, string and bool, and there's no way to define joins 18:01:11 peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:01:38 karsten: I see. Hm, too bad :-/ What does sqlid do? The link to the documentation seems to be broken 18:02:03 incubot: Do you think solid state drive technology will liberate us finally from the object-to-relational mapping hell? 18:02:05 has anyone tried to give a terse implementation of the relational algebra (the six operators required for completeness: select, project, natural join, union, difference and rename) in a scheme implementation of their choice? 18:02:24 incubot: a simple yes or no would suffice. 18:02:27 Of course they suffice. So does "goto". 18:03:26 iion_tichy: i think it's just an interface to sql, not related to orm 18:04:03 karstern_: I see, thanks! 18:06:13 iion_tichy: depending on your use case, it's actually rather trivial to build helpers for mapping 1-to-n/n-to-m relations to snooze primitives, and their sql interface is pretty nice, so you might wanna give it a shot. 18:06:35 I will, thanks 18:06:53 -!- Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:09:00 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:09:05 karsten_: and is it common to use the PltScheme class module, or do people mostly stick to structs? 18:09:17 Or another class implementation? 18:12:30 iion_tichy: that seems to be a matter of taste, some use struct and functions operating on the structs, others stick to classes. 18:13:02 incubot: teach me to content-index 18:13:04 Alpha will teach you a lot about alignment issues :) 18:16:25 karsten_: I see - coming from Java, I find it hard to decide ;-) 18:17:13 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:17:38 -!- Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:18:18 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has left #scheme 18:18:41 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 18:21:26 iion_tichy: well, using typed scheme, you even have the option of polymorphic functions ;) 18:22:56 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:24:45 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 18:25:50 -!- Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:26:05 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:29:31 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-96-92-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 18:31:41 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 18:37:28 -!- evoli [n=yuhsin@220-135-33-149.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:40:54 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a66031@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0198426df90e9da7] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 18:41:34 -!- Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:42:00 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-51-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:42:30 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:42:42 baklava- [i=new@unaffiliated/baklava-] has joined #scheme 18:43:26 evoli [n=yuhsin@220-135-33-149.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 18:45:54 -!- benny` is now known as benny 18:46:51 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:51:35 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 18:53:16 -!- Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:53:41 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:59:54 -!- Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:00:08 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:01:49 iion_tichy: I myself use PLT a fair bit, but only use classes when I'm forced to -- namely, when I write graphical stuff. The graphics library requires that you write some classes. 19:04:19 -!- karsten_ [n=karsten@82.135.98.205] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:05:58 ejs1 [n=eugen@77-109-29-60.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 19:08:18 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-16-83.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 19:08:55 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-7-58.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:09:06 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 19:18:33 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 19:23:26 waterh [n=waterh@114.143.32.125] has joined #scheme 19:24:14 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 19:33:39 vasa [n=vasa@mm-96-92-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 19:43:58 karsten_ [n=karsten@1.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com] has joined #scheme 19:49:08 arcfide [n=arcfide@99.137.203.206] has joined #scheme 19:49:38 Good afternoon, everyone. 19:50:13 Boo. 19:50:28 Hoo. 19:51:39 Riastradh: How's life? 19:52:15 SQLite3's API is irksome in places, but life has produced as an example that should be (barring bugs) decently robust. 19:52:42 Oh? 19:52:46 Coding again, I see. 19:52:49 What does it do? 19:52:53 :-) 19:52:57 It is an SQLite3 interface. 19:53:05 An FFI wrapper? 19:53:08 Yes. 19:53:13 I see. 19:53:17 Built on what? 19:53:26 The `FFI thingie' about which you inquired the other day. 19:53:41 I was hoping you would say that. 19:54:03 I have been interested in seeing a demonstration of this idea of yours. 19:54:37 I have to admit I still do not fully understand the overall purpose. Is it just a language for describing consistent FFI semantics that are then translated into the actual FFI code of a particular implementation? 19:55:06 -!- Jarv2 is now known as Jarvellis 19:55:43 Something like that. Specifically, the intent is to tell Scheme how a C programmer would invoke the library, and what it should look like in Scheme, without mentioning any details of how the Scheme FFI works internally. 19:55:54 I see. 19:56:05 Is it easy to hook in existing FFIs? 19:56:17 I wonder how well (c-system-include "sqlite3.h") works. Would it run cpp first? 19:56:24 No, synx. 19:57:35 arcfide, the back end for the FFI of Scheme48 <=1.3 spans about a thousand lines. 19:58:38 Woah. 19:58:45 So...not so easy to link in? 19:58:51 This is because Scheme48's FFI is difficult to use. 19:58:52 An annoying thing about FFI writing is meticulously translating the dozens of functions, C structures, macros and constants in a header file, into whatever format the destination language expects. The format of a header file can be quite complex... 19:59:28 Riastradh: Given what you know about Chez's FFI, could you estimate the complexity of using it there? 19:59:37 Have you named this Meta-FFI? 20:02:25 I know very little about Chez's FFI. I am calling this `stubber'. 20:04:40 Hrm, okay. 20:04:49 Well, I am very interested in seeing it. 20:05:17 I still haven't made my sockets library good enough for public consumption, and I would be curious to see what the stubber could provide. 20:05:38 I also have a large project to work on next semester that will probably require this kind of stuff. 20:06:53 There is also a metric pile of disgusting and difficult macrology, which is the part that needs to be rewritten. 20:07:18 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 20:07:41 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 20:07:56 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 20:08:37 Understood. 20:09:15 Probably the most interesting part of sqlite3.scm is the last page. 20:09:32 the callback code? 20:11:18 The corresponding generated code is at . 20:11:55 ... 20:12:02 Okaaaay. 20:12:03 :-) 20:13:05 -!- dsmith [i=pukk6sp1@cpe-71-74-230-225.neo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:13:07 Well, just from a quick description of Chez's FFI, it's basically an FFI that loads shared object files, and then binds procedures to locations in that shared object, with a fixed set of argument types provided for specifying the interface. 20:13:31 s/just from a/as a/ 20:13:41 Avoid the word `type', please; `conversion' is better, unless you are actually talking about types, which is unlikely. 20:14:14 The word `conversion' helps to accentuate that there are m:n choices of mappings, rather than a 1:1 bijection between C and Scheme types. 20:14:16 Well, conversions, yes, you could say that. I do not mean C types or Scheme types, in general. 20:14:43 They are things like integer-32, void, string, fixnum, &c. 20:14:51 But this is about the extent of the FFI. 20:15:17 How inclined are you to play with this? 20:15:24 The FFI also does the reverse, in that is provides an address that can be passed to the external C side. 20:15:41 I am inclined to play with it, but I won't be able to play until after Christmas 20:15:54 I am going to be designing that Scheme repository I spoke of. 20:16:06 This will require some links into things like Sockets, and doing some other work, I am sure. 20:16:24 It would be nice to have a good FFI stubber that could assist in the portability of the code. 20:16:44 It's not essential, and if it is too much work, then I probably won't use it, but I do have my interests. 20:17:07 I would like to stub a GUI toolkit, sockets, soem databases (maybe sqlite3 is good enough), and maybe some additional things beyond that. 20:17:13 Are you daunted by the prospect of reading a thousand lines of what is conceptually a mixture of Prolog and assembly language? 20:17:25 (and understanding what it does, and rewriting it in another language) 20:17:48 Daunted? No. Inspired? Eh.... Would I do it? Maybe. 20:18:19 -!- pjb [n=t@81-66-196-92.rev.numericable.fr] has left #scheme 20:20:03 There are really two independent parts of this: the syntax and the code generator. 20:20:30 Most (but not all) of the implementation of the syntax is not specific to Scheme48. 20:25:07 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 20:26:11 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:28:04 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:28:17 Riastradh: Sounds interesting. 20:28:19 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:28:29 I'm brushing up some notes on the system right now. 20:28:32 I'll probably check back with you on its status when I am ready to use it. 20:28:43 mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:28:59 I won't even have time to look at it until later in January, so you might as well do what you want with it during that time, if you have time. 20:31:10 *arcfide* grabs some Lunch. 20:31:31 chaoslynx [n=cpehle@p57A76728.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:34:20 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77-109-29-60.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:40:49 synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:46:23 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:54:38 -!- karsten_ [n=karsten@1.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:55:00 karsten_ [n=karsten@1.106.113.82.net.de.o2.com] has joined #scheme 20:59:46 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:01:15 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-96-92-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 21:02:43 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-67-186-250-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:03:42 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:05:09 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 21:09:58 incubot: la la la 21:10:05 incubot: "la la la" 21:10:17 incubot: mejja 21:10:19 would you happen to have a runtime-unx.pkd handy? 21:10:34 incubot: Riastradh 21:10:37 Emacs 22 21:11:12 exexex [n=chatzill@88.234.15.230] has joined #scheme 21:16:08 DUM 21:16:09 DE 21:16:10 DUM 21:16:31 incubot: sandwich 21:16:33 One day I want to go to some kind of school in Vietnam. *any* kind of school that teaches a practical skill. So one day, while (eg) making a sandwich, I can go "Hey, kids, watch this: here's a little trick I learnt in the 'Nam" - then cut an ornate flower out of a radish or whatever. 21:16:59 *gnomon* goes home 21:17:11 Ashamed about sandwiches, gnomon? 21:17:39 sandwich! 21:18:50 Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 21:22:07 *XTL* is full already 21:24:45 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 21:34:31 -!- umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has quit [] 21:37:57 -!- waterh [n=waterh@114.143.32.125] has quit [""Help! I've been g:lined from my mIRC!!" Bersirc 2.2: less n00bs [ http://www.bersirc.org/ - Open Source IRC ]"] 21:38:39 Sandwiches, yum. 21:39:59 not horrible sandwiches 21:40:04 they are not yum 21:40:31 vixey: Have you had a horrible sandwiche lately? I am sorry. 21:41:12 I personally prefer Pastrami Reuben on Rye, with the best of those coming from real deli's that have real pastrami and real rye bread. 21:41:32 Hrm, deli's is incorrect. 21:41:36 What's the proper plural of deli? 21:41:43 Delis? 21:41:49 It just looks wrong. 21:42:15 Wiktionary agrees with me, so I must be right. 21:42:27 (No, that doesn't sound as good as `Wikipedia agrees with me', I guess.) 21:42:58 Ugh, weird. 21:43:00 Okay. 21:43:01 :-) 21:43:04 dsmith [i=ozs4mpu6@cpe-71-74-230-225.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:43:23 I have come to dislike Wikis. 21:43:44 Not all, mind you, but the overall attitude it tends to create for lazy documentors. 21:44:13 I like wikis. My favorite is one that a bunch of people write collaborative fiction on. 21:45:40 I am coming to dislike them because, when someone writes some software or hardware, and then distributes and supports them commercially, but are too lazy to document them properly, instead of responding with, "I'm sorry, we really don't have documentation right now," which faults them, they say, "Well, just write the documentation yourself, we have a wiki." 21:46:22 They seem to think that having a wiki releases them from any burden of doing their own documentation. 21:47:23 Oh, well yeah that is pretty underhanded. I don't like software documentation in wiki format, typically. 21:47:34 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 21:47:50 Well, wikis should not be authoratative, imo. 21:47:54 And documentation should be. 21:47:58 mejja annotated #72083 with "x11color.c" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72083#1 21:48:11 Riastradh: more work for you... 21:48:12 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:48:17 I just don't like people who try to weasel work out of others for no good reason. 21:48:22 Besides the fact that Wikis are hard to use as documentation. 21:48:39 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 21:52:19 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 21:53:18 Why would you want to have someone else modify the documentation you wrote? Didn't you write it correctly the first time? 21:54:01 In this particular case, the documentation is shady, at best, and seems like a rough attempt to appear complete. 21:56:22 sam_ [n=Sami__@hoasnet-fe1add00-113.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 22:01:25 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-58.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 22:03:31 arcfide: what provoked thy ire? 22:03:48 What provoked me? 22:04:00 the wiki rant 22:04:16 Oh, nothing, except that I had to actually write some code to communicate with these robots for which little documentation was provide. 22:04:36 doc is hard. harder than working code imo 22:04:38 This resulted in an overly nitpicky grokking of less than ideally written Python. 22:04:57 And some of the stuff still doesn't work. 22:11:12 -!- karsten_ [n=karsten@1.106.113.82.net.de.o2.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:13:28 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-67-186-250-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:20:08 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:20:24 replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-5-146.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 22:21:24 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless43.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 22:37:59 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-15-61.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:39:34 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-16-83.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:47:36 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-39-16.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 22:48:11 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:57:19 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit ["Smoove out."] 23:03:21 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 23:03:24 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:03:55 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:08:07 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:11:34 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:15:36 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:15:54 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:18:17 Wow, I just did a test conversion of 'The Roots of Lisp.ps', which used blurry old bitmap fonts and was not searchable, into a fully-searchable PDF file with Type 1 outline fonts, automatically 23:18:31 I have been trying to figure out how to do that for years 23:18:55 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:19:09 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 23:19:24 wow 23:19:40 how ? that sounds great 23:20:05 http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/pkfix/ 23:20:08 -!- macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["call/cc bed"] 23:21:09 thank you 23:23:06 there is a sister application for OLD .ps files at http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/pkfix-helper/ 23:23:47 but my attempt at converting gcsurvey.ps with that, which used a version of dvips from 1990, hasn't succeeded yet 23:24:18 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:27:00 peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:29:34 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-66-164.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 23:32:28 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 23:32:52 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:33:58 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:37:48 amazing... it worked on Clinger/Rees's "Macros that Work" as well ... it is /so/ much easier to read now 23:42:18 first time using scheme... could someone show me why I'm getting this error? http://www.pastebin.ca/1285504 (just 4 lines of code) 23:42:33 lisppaste: url 23:42:33 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 23:42:49 baklava-: You will find lisppaste a nicer interface. 23:43:18 baklava-: Do you know how Scheme expressions work? 23:43:52 arcfide: alright, I'll use that in the future. thanks. as far as scheme expressions, I think I may have misunderstood something (apparently) 23:44:29 Okay, so, you know that (...) is a Scheme expression, and that, when you put these expressions into the REPL, they are evaluated according to a certain semantics, right? 23:44:58 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:45:01 -!- iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179064046.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:45:23 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:45:42 So, in the case of (id), this expression is evaluated by looking up the value of id, which should be a procedure, and applying that procedure to no arguments, and the result of evaluating (id) is the result of this application. 23:45:58 In other words, when you use (lis) here, you are actually trying to call lis as a procedure. 23:46:08 so I need to quote it? 23:46:29 Quoting basically says, take the expression after the quote and treat it like data. 23:46:39 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:46:45 So, 'lis expands to (quote list), which evaluates to the symbol LIS. 23:46:58 What you want is the value bound to the identifier lis. 23:47:06 right 23:47:12 So, in your REPL, try this: 23:47:20 (define lis '(a b c)) 23:47:30 And then, just type lis at the next prompt and hit the return key. 23:47:44 rudybot: eval (define lis '(a b c)) 23:47:46 rudybot: eval lis 23:47:46 arcfide: ; Value: (a b c) 23:47:57 rudybot: eval (car lis) 23:47:57 arcfide: ; Value: a 23:48:26 Notice in the above, that just evaluating the expression lis, the value is the value bound to lis. 23:49:20 So, the expression (CAR LIS) is evaluated by evaluating the inner terms, and applying the value of CAR to the value of LIS, i.e. -- calling the procedure CAR on the data stored in LIS. 23:49:28 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-39-16.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:50:13 This is different than (CAR (LIS)), which says, to take the procedure CAR (assuming CAR is bound to the internal CAR procedure), and apply it to the result of applying the procedure bound to LIS to zero arguments. 23:50:48 rudybot: eval (define lis (lambda () '(a b c))) 23:50:48 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:50:52 rudybot: eval (car (lis)) 23:50:53 arcfide: ; Value: a 23:50:57 Voila. 23:51:06 Does that make sense? 23:51:23 What book are you using to study? 23:51:33 sorry, someone came in and is distracting, reading the buffer 23:51:37 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:51:43 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:52:09 Concepts of Programming Languages... paradigms text, not specifically a Scheme book 23:52:17 This is usually discussed as the first topic in any decent Scheme Programming book. You would do well to re-read that section and get a good handle on it. 23:52:21 Aaaah. 23:52:30 baklava-: Is that a blue book with some kind of scenery on the front? 23:52:46 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-10-115.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 23:52:49 I have an older version, mine is white 23:53:16 Okay, is this for a class? 23:53:19 Beware of that book. 23:53:36 yes, for a class 23:53:41 My copy is full of errors and mis-translations from Common Lisp to Scheme and sometimes, out-dated Scheme. 23:53:45 Concepts of Programming Languages ?? 23:53:57 or Concepts _Techniques and Models_ of Programming Languages ? 23:54:03 vixey: Yes. The first. 23:54:03 I never heard of this thing 23:54:10 vixey: Consider yourself lucky. 23:54:11 ok I guess it's not one I know then 23:54:12 :) 23:54:31 Written by Sebasta. 23:54:41 correct, I have 7th edition 23:55:15 baklava-: Yes, you should probably supplement yourself with something like The Scheme Programming Language or Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, both of which are linked in the topic. 23:55:32 I've noticed MANY errors in the scheme examples... has taken me awhile to try to get through his examples because they won't even run 23:55:39 Right. 23:55:45 It's not a good place to learn Scheme. 23:55:50 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:55:56 7th edition and it's still erroneous? wo 23:56:08 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["There exists an infinite set!"] 23:56:18 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:56:22 vixey: In my copy, it was obvious that they switched from Common Lisp or something similar to Scheme. 23:56:54 baklava-: Definitely use another book as a reference or a guide. 23:57:25 vixey: In my copy, they assume certain things are defined, like NIL. 23:57:58 They also don't really cover how Scheme expressions are composed or evaluated very thoroughly. 23:59:49 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out]