00:00:11 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:01:49 -!- kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:19:20 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 00:26:41 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05555C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:27:14 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:32:50 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 00:34:21 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:35:42 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:37:19 foof, eli offby1` so I'm now outside the network and as expected, I'm no longer experiencing the problem with the port 80 issue.... but with regard to pure-ports, I'm unable to download pages, the tree that is produced always returns with elements that represent: "Your browser was unable to process your request.", any pointers on where I might have to look? 00:39:27 this also happens no matter which site I try to experiment with... 00:41:09 offby1`` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 00:44:31 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.72.93] has quit [Success] 00:51:34 a-s [n=user@92.80.72.93] has joined #scheme 00:57:56 -!- offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:00:03 CaptainMorgan: try the same URL with "wget" or "curl" -- if that fails similarly then it's clearly not a problem with Scheme 01:01:21 how do I install mzscheme on os x? the readme.txt says to consult bin/plt-help, which doesn't exist 01:04:54 I suppose I will copy it into /usr/local/bin, /System/Library/Frameworks, and ~/Library... 01:05:26 ...ack! Generally, you should never touch anything in /System/Library. 01:06:45 proq, are you compiling from source? 01:07:03 Riastradh: that's true, but this is adding, not modifying 01:07:17 Adding to a directory modifies it. 01:07:18 jonrafkind: no, I just downloaded the dmf 01:07:21 dmg 01:08:09 Riastradh: do you know what happens when you copy frameworks into /System/Library/Frameworks? 01:08:56 Riastradh: I've been working with frameworks there since 10.0 beta 01:10:10 Your machine won't crash and burn, but it violates assumptions made by Apple about the operating system which might make your system operate suboptimally in obscure ways later. One's own frameworks should be installed in /Library, not in /System/Library. 01:11:46 proq: I don't use OS X, but I'd expect that the PLT guys would provide an installer that is "standard" -- i.e., works just like every nice professional OS X app 01:12:03 offby1``: it doesn't seem to be present, I'm afraid 01:12:17 maybe you downloaded the wrong thing 01:12:20 ask eli 01:12:25 he's the go-to guy for PLT quesitons 01:12:30 questions 01:12:42 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.72.93] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:13:06 Riastradh: on a side note, I inherited an app with runs entirely from /System/Library in the last few months, and thus have been working from there for the better part of the last three months. But I will move it to /Library/Frameworks 01:14:19 Looks to me as though you're just supposed to copy the one folder called `PLT Scheme v4.x.x' to wherever suits your fancy. DrScheme.app and bin/mzscheme execute as I'd expect them to without any actions on my part except to run them. 01:15:42 Riastradh: I can see how COLLECT-STRING might perform better on the whole without blocking of strings. I wonder though, whether a READ-WORD implementation wouldn't benefit from something like BLOCK-READ, and then just iterating through a fixed buffer size? 01:16:06 well mzscheme complained about where it expects collect to be (~/Library), so looks like it starts ok now 01:16:25 If I understand correctly, this is basically what buffered I/O does. 01:16:26 bin/plt-help exists in the disk image I just downloaded, by the way. 01:16:56 SweetwaterDixon [n=user@210.48.104.34] has joined #scheme 01:17:29 Riastradh: would that be 4.1.3 for OS X intel? 01:17:30 arcfide, yes. I assume that underlying READ-CHAR is a buffer which does precisely what you describe. This assumption holds in most Scheme systems. 01:17:34 proq, yes. 01:17:49 ls /Volumes/MzScheme\ v4.1.3/MzScheme\ v4.1.3/bin/ 01:17:50 mzc mzpp mzscheme mztext planet plt-r5rs plt-r6rs plt-web-server scribble setup-plt swindle 01:18:09 Sorry, I downloaded `PLT Scheme v4.1.3', not `MzScheme v4.1.3'. 01:18:53 well, I think I installed it correctly anyhow 01:20:06 Riastradh: However, one is not normally allowed to control the buffering of input ports in portable Scheme. 01:20:14 So? 01:20:45 If you know that normally your files are going to be very large, you could get better performance using a much larger buffer than is normally used. 01:21:23 Substantiate, please. 01:21:59 offby1``, wget didn't return a page it ultimately reported "OK", and curl brought me back the complete page.... so it looks like it is Scheme 01:22:02 :( 01:22:40 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless275.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:23:38 ah.. I forgot, wget did return a page, it just didn't show it to me... it downloaded it to the working directory... anyways... how could I approach this scheme problem? 01:23:50 What is the problem, precisely, CaptainMorgan? 01:24:34 CaptainMorgan: here's what you should do: write the smallest, simplest possible PLT code that repros the problem, then paste it to lisppaste 01:25:02 also describe EXACTLY what you see when you run it, and EXACTLY how that differs from what you expect. And when I say "EXACT", I mean: a transcript of a shell session 01:25:18 *offby1``* has given up trimming the ticks off his nick, as you can see 01:25:46 *Riastradh* hands offby1`` a nail clipper. 01:25:49 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless275.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 01:26:02 your best bet is to expend some effort so that we don't have to expend hardly _any_ effort to see the same problem you're seeing. 01:26:03 Riastradh, briefly, get-pure-port on a given url, is reporting back: "Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand." 01:26:10 Only then are you likely to get help. Sad but true. 01:26:23 CaptainMorgan, pay heed to offby1``'s advice. 01:26:40 bbm 01:26:45 we don't want brief prose descriptions. We want code and a transcript. Anything else is a waste of your time 01:27:07 Riastradh: I can't put my finger on it but I'm sure that, somehow, you're making fun of my nick. 01:27:41 Pay heed to the fellow named ``offby1``''. 01:27:48 see 01:28:08 rudybot: eval (copy-port (get-pure-port (string->url "http://localhost")) (current-output-port)) 01:28:08 offby1``: error: reference to undefined identifier: copy-port 01:28:11 damn 01:28:24 rudybot: eval (require scheme/port) 01:28:26 rudybot: eval (copy-port (get-pure-port (string->url "http://localhost")) (current-output-port)) 01:28:26 offby1``: error: reference to undefined identifier: get-pure-port 01:28:29 *sigh* 01:28:38 rudybot: eval (require net/url) 01:28:40 rudybot: eval (copy-port (get-pure-port (string->url "http://localhost")) (current-output-port)) 01:28:40 offby1``: error: tcp-connect: network access denied: ("localhost" 80 client) 01:28:43 aha 01:28:53 apart from the sandbox, that's what CaptainMorgan should do 01:29:07 for the relevant URL, of course. 01:32:18 Man, offby1``, you gotta shave that thing. You going to scare the ladies. 01:32:25 CaptainMorgan: ha! I am seeing what you saw! 01:32:31 what? 01:32:37 seriously? 01:32:38 I reproed the problem myself without your even telling me what to do 01:32:46 seriously 01:32:53 cool.. I can stop developing my test case... 01:32:56 gimme five mninutes 01:33:03 alrighty! 01:33:06 No, CaptainMorgan, you should continue. 01:33:16 If nothing else, this will be a valuable pedagogical exercise. 01:34:04 offby1 pasted "I too see CaptainMorgan's problems" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71831 01:34:41 yep 01:34:44 sounds like a bug 01:34:47 that's the response 01:34:54 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@adsl-70-250-184-34.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 01:35:02 time to sniff the wire with wireshark or similar. 01:35:05 See just what's being sent. 01:35:18 synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:36:18 It just seems to be sending GET HTTP/1.0\r\nHost: localhost:8888\r\n\rn 01:36:22 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:36:23 which seems reasonable at first glance 01:36:38 though I dunno what the "host" line is doing in there, now that I think about it 01:36:49 (the port is 8888 since that's what I told it to use) 01:37:02 The `Host:' line is necessary by the HTTP. What's wrong is the lack of a request-URI. 01:37:18 my server log looks like 127.0.0.1 - - [08/Dec/2008:17:32:11 -0800] "GET HTTP/1.0" 400 317 "-" "-" 01:37:59 CaptainMorgan: OK, try putting a trailing / in the URL like this: (string->url "http://localhost/") 01:38:01 worx 4 me 01:39:05 might be a bug in string->url: perhaps URLs without request-URIs are ill-formed or something 01:39:13 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-175-126.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:39:17 ...not quite. 01:39:22 rudybot: eval (string->url "http://localhost/") 01:39:23 offby1``: ; Value: #(struct:url "http" #f "localhost" #f #t (#(struct:path/param "" ())) () #f) 01:39:28 rudybot: eval (string->url "http://localhost") 01:39:28 offby1``: ; Value: #(struct:url "http" #f "localhost" #f #f () () #f) 01:39:47 odd that rudybot's URL structures are transparent, whereas mine in my REPL are not. 01:40:44 Your printer is configured differently. 01:40:47

It works!

01:40:49 (PC LOAD LETTER) 01:40:51 apparently. 01:41:07 Riastradh: I have not taken the time to do the specific benchmarks which would indicate whether BLOCK-READ solutions are faster than normal buffered I/O; however, having a larger buffer would reduce the need to make system calls and the like into the file system, which I suspect would provide some improved performance if the program was I/O bound. 01:41:21 *offby1``* wonders if CaptainMorgan is now enjoying success 01:41:23 ... or what 01:41:39 arcfide, if the program is now I/O bound, why would changing the frequency of system calls matter? 01:41:45 Of course, I am assuming that the filesystem and OS does a better job of reads on bulk reading, and does worse with a bunch of smaller reads. 01:42:23 Riastradh: These are things I just suspect, but haven't finished running the tests. I was hoping someone on here might have already done this stuff. 01:43:07 thank you offby1`` that's about right now... weird... many sites are 'ill-formed' in that way... and many contain links like that... I assume there's a url normalization method I can use.. 01:43:09 My guess is that one will not get much better than page-length reads. 01:43:40 synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:44:23 CaptainMorgan: I'd ask eli (or the PLT mailing list) for clarification -- it might be a bug, or just might be one of those cases where it's strictly correct, but kinda noobie-hostile, and thus could use a sentence or two in the docs warning about it 01:44:44 definitely, thanks a million :) 01:45:04 That's a bug. The HTTP library ought not to send a bogus request to the server; either it should make the request sensible or it should signal an error. 01:46:34 sho' 'nuff 01:47:14 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 01:47:41 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless275.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:47:50 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:49:31 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:50:22 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@ZQ062141.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:53:33 Quoth the RFC 1945 (HTTP 1.0), on the request-URI: `Note that the absolute path cannot be empty; if none is present in the original URI, it must be given as "/" (the server root).' The RFC 1945 also requires clients to supply paths, rather than URIs, for the request-URI; the RFC 2616 (HTTP 1.1) relaxes this restriction, so one could just send `GET http://localhost HTTP/1.1'. 01:53:47 Arelius_ [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 01:53:56 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:54:34 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 02:01:44 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-98-212-143-245.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:09:36 damn, you're doing all their work for them 02:11:38 hrm. does anyone know if there's a function in the plt web server that takes a function as an argument and returns a url, which, when accessed, calls the function? 02:11:38 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:12:08 so it would be pretty similar to send/suspend, only the other way round 02:17:32 so it's not a bug afterall ? 02:17:54 No, CaptainMorgan, it is a bug. 02:18:20 phew... I just got through drafting a post for the mailing list.. :) 02:19:08 The HTTP client (is that what one invokes with the absurd name GET-PURE-PORT?) should either send `GET / HTTP/1.0' if the URI's path is empty, or support HTTP 1.1 and send a GET request with the full URI. 02:19:54 ah.. 02:36:24 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180066038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:38:19 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 02:38:43 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:40:13 karsten_: I'm pretty sure there is, ask on the list. 02:40:23 CaptainMorgan: fixed in svn. 02:40:39 eli: on the plt scheme list? 02:41:44 WTFPL? 02:42:14 karsten_: yes. 02:42:33 OK, I am convinced. Very charming license. 02:42:39 eli, thanks... but now I'm going to look like an ass on the list, when folks go to test it. :) 02:42:49 cheers. I'll live with it 02:43:14 *jcowan* unvanishes, belatedly. 02:43:48 eli, when you say svn/subversion, how do I update my cache or get the latest fix? 02:47:14 CaptainMorgan: you won't, I fixed it because of the problem you reported. For future reference, such descriptions of problems are much more useful if they're short, like what offby1 posted. 02:47:52 CaptainMorgan: As for updating, you can grab the next successful nightly build when it happens (there is a certain problem right now). 02:47:57 I'm confused... it's fixed, but I can't acquire it.. ? 02:48:07 ah.. 02:51:27 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 02:51:50 great thanks! 02:52:03 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [] 02:55:09 I want to be as helpful as possible in assisting you with the helping of my problem... thusly, please tell me where that post on the mailing list was too verbose. Riastradh suggested a test case, so I developed one and posted that... granted mine is different from offby1`` , but that's because of the different approaches.. but the code was short nevertheless... maybe my explanation was too long? 02:57:26 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 02:58:27 A Blesity problem I am still wondering about: 02:58:51 My original design provided three entry points for each compiled function: the direct entry, which can be called by code which knows what function it is calling, 02:59:07 the "apply" entry point, which is used for calling functions that are completely unknown, 02:59:16 I'm on the telehpone; don't go away, jcowan! 02:59:20 and the "funcall" entry point, which is used for calling an unknown function with a known number of arguments. 02:59:27 I'll be here a while, Riastradh. 03:00:48 The question is whether the funcall entry point is worth having, given a fairly dumb compiler. 03:04:10 *offby1``* cuts Riastradh's phone cord 03:04:34 omg, I think i'm falling back in love with haskell / xmonad 03:04:42 (i.e. and losing interest in writing my own scheme based window manager) 03:04:55 *jcowan* defenestrates offby1``. 03:06:02 jcowan, what's the difference between the FUNCALL and APPLY entry points? 03:06:10 eh haskell 03:06:23 -!- replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:07:31 offby1``, gee, how did you know that would work? 03:07:43 In the APPLY entry point you pass a list of arguments. In the FUNCALL entry point you pass the arguments individually, so the compiler must ensure that the arities match. 03:10:17 CaptainMorgan: If you want to get the new version of the file, it's at http://svn.plt-scheme.org/plt/trunk/collects/net/url-unit.ss 03:10:41 thank you eli 03:11:06 rudybot: eval (apply + 1 2 3 null) 03:11:07 synx: ; Value: 6 03:11:09 CaptainMorgan: As for your post -- the problem is that the html parsing library had nothing to do with the problem, and only stood in the way of seeing what the problem is 03:11:18 Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 03:11:27 jcowan: :> 03:11:40 Eh? 03:11:41 eli, indeed, that was my paraphrasing of what was discovered in #Scheme, with the help of Riastradh 03:12:03 jcowan, in what case is the FUNCALL entry point useful? 03:12:35 Well, ISLisp is a 2-Lisp, so one obvious use is when you are actually making a direct call to FUNCALL. 03:12:48 You mean (FUNCALL #'FOO ...)? 03:12:51 (define (funcall f . rest) (apply f rest)) 03:13:01 synx: doesn't work in a 2-Lisp. 03:13:07 Riastradh: Yes 03:13:16 Why would that not just use the ordinary entry point? 03:13:30 Oops, brain fart. 03:13:31 I don't know what a 2-lisp is, sorry. 03:13:46 No, it's (funcall f ...) that's the issue. 03:14:09 (funcall #'foo ...) can be rewritten as (foo ...) 03:14:29 synx: In a 2-Lisp, there are separate namespaces for variable names and function names. 03:15:01 1-Lisp, 2-Lisp; Fun Lisp, Fu Lisp 03:15:34 I see. Why don't you just have two entry points, one for unknown calls which require arity checks, and one for known calls which do not? APPLY would destructure the list (which it might not get all in one piece anyway) and invoke the entry point for unknown calls. 03:16:35 Ah. Strike my earlier remark "so the compiler must ensure that the arities match"; it is the callee that has to make sure. 03:16:43 incubot: foo 03:18:23 jcowan: Eww, I see. 03:19:43 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-6-110.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 03:19:57 I have never heard 2-lisp, only lisp-2 03:20:28 Freudian slip with 3-Lisp, I presume. 03:20:52 Yes. I should be saying Lisp-2 all along. 03:21:06 (I find 2Lisp more interesting than 3Lisp, actually) 03:22:51 I find it only complicates things... how do you add functions to the function namespace anyway? 03:23:32 One uses DEFUN. 03:23:33 In ISLisp, you can only do so at compile time: there are separate DEFUN and DEFVAR defining forms. Common Lisp has run-time functions for the purpose. 03:31:11 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-36-191.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:31:12 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 03:39:58 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:40:31 So after you (defun) a function, you can then call it like (some-function-name ...)? 03:41:14 Yes. 03:42:10 (defun foo (bar baz) (cons (car bar) (car baz)) 03:43:20 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 03:44:14 synx: For local functions, there is FLET and LABELS (which would more logically be called FLETREC, but isn't) 03:44:15 peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:44:59 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:47:18 hmm. Ersatz miso soup: 1 tsp concentrated chicken stock; 1 1/2 tsp miso; 8 oz boiling water. In a big mug. 03:47:21 not bad 03:48:09 "Ersatz" suggests miso soup without miso. I'd just call that chicken miso soup. 03:48:22 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:49:34 well, calling it "X miso soup" suggests that it's got, y'know, chives 'n' bonito flakes 'n' tofu. 03:49:41 I'm not sure what the need for a separate function namespace is. 03:50:24 Hysterical raisins. It also makes it less likely that non-hygienic macros actually cause trouble. 03:53:06 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:53:50 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-175-126.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:54:07 jcowan: what arwe hysterical raisins? 03:54:26 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-184-157.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:55:16 A silly way of saying "historical reasons" 03:55:39 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:55:41 *grettke* giggles 03:56:17 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-98-212-143-245.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:57:40 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:58:35 -!- SweetwaterDixon [n=user@210.48.104.34] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:59:17 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:00:33 wasabi____ [n=wasabi@ntoska205253.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:04:50 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 04:11:52 offby1``` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 04:12:34 -!- wasabi___ [n=wasabi@ntoska205253.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:16:54 -!- offby1``` is now known as offby1 04:25:35 -!- offby1`` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:26:03 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:29:27 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:31:38 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["leaving"] 04:32:45 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 04:32:58 -!- kniu [n=kniu@OLAWDYME.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:39:59 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:48:16 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-200-238.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:49:04 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 04:57:28 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-18-156.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 05:01:27 karsten__ [n=karsten@dslb-088-072-202-246.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 05:06:55 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 05:07:11 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:09:03 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 05:10:19 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176217111.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:13:10 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 05:13:39 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["leaving"] 05:13:53 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-6-110.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:17:12 -!- karsten_ [n=karsten@dslb-088-072-232-251.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:25:46 Can anyone recommend a good stack-based language with which one may begin their studies of stack-based languages? 05:26:45 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176197251.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:03 forth? 05:27:12 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 05:27:41 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:27:44 PostScript 05:27:49 ? 05:27:53 That's not really a recommendation 05:28:02 "concatenative" is a hobby one 05:29:42 Start with Joy, I'd say. 05:29:48 It's the most subtle. 05:30:57 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:31:13 that's the one I was trying to think of. 05:31:22 I went through Slate and Io but hadn't gotten there 05:31:25 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #scheme 05:31:29 *klutometis* wondereth wherefore stack 05:31:55 joy eh? 05:33:17 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.49.18.149] has joined #scheme 05:34:07 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 05:34:58 jcowan: Please elaborate on what you mean by it being the most sublte (excluding the literal interpretation). 05:37:46 In Joy, all values are also code. 05:38:07 So lists and function bodies are the same thing, looked at from two different viewpoints. 05:38:22 2 is both the value 2 and the function that takes a stack and returns the same stack with 2 pushed on it. 05:39:54 where the 2 in question is, once again, both the value and the function. 05:41:26 wow, deep 05:41:58 that is too deep man 05:42:23 Oh. Are you familiar with the stack->stack interpretation of concatenative languages? 05:42:31 I was assuming you were, but if not, that needs explaining first. 05:42:36 joking aside, what is the philosphy behind that? 05:42:42 No I'm not familiar with that. 05:43:14 Okay. If we think of a reverse-polish calculator, we enter 2 and enter 2 and enter + and the top of the stack is 4. 05:43:28 So there's a stream of actions to take and a stack which gets mutated as we go. 05:43:34 *grettke* nods 05:43:52 Numbers (or other constants) get pushed on the stack, operations take N things off the stack and push M things back on. 05:44:00 But we can also see things differently, 05:44:28 whereby 2 and + are *functions* that accept a sequence and return a new sequence, both of which are immutable. 05:44:39 Under this interpretation, concatenation is function application: 05:45:05 we start with the empty sequence, {}, and then apply 2 to get {2}, apply 2 to get {2 2}, and apply + to get {4}. 05:45:16 Which is (4 (2 (2 '{}))) in Lisp notation. 05:45:22 er, 05:45:30 (+ (2 (2 '{}))) 05:46:06 *grettke* nods 05:46:50 So in this context, concatenative languages are a subset of functional languages, and concatenation is funcction combination. 05:46:57 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-184-157.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:47:02 interesting 05:47:03 crazy 05:47:07 f g = f . g 05:47:27 how is that read? 05:48:17 f . g is \x g(f(x)) 05:48:20 "f dot g" 05:48:25 in applicative notation 05:48:36 But we can just write and read "f g" in concatenative notation. 05:49:16 Now in Joy sequences are a component of sequences. 05:50:17 To explain the next step, I'll revert to the mutable-stack interpretation, but you can translate what I'm saying into the applicative interpretation whenever you like. 05:50:52 If we push [1 2 3] onto the Joy stack, we can then say "i", which is a built-in function that pops the top of the stack (which must be a sequence) and executes the words in that sequence. 05:50:59 So the result of [1 2 3] i is 1 2 3. 05:51:16 (by convention, the top of a Joy stack is at the right) 05:51:25 ok 05:52:18 So at first [1 2 3] is just "the sequence of the integers 1, 2, and 3", but when interpreted by "i" it means "the commands 1, 2, and 3, done in that order" 05:52:25 So "i" is Joy's "eval" 05:53:09 "i" is totally safe to use because there are no named variables in Joy and therefore no issue of binding scopes. 05:53:51 Likewise "[+] i" is equivalent to "+" 05:54:06 I see, nice. 05:54:25 Because 2 is just as much a command (or function, in the applicative interpretation) as + is. 05:54:45 And + is just as much a value, at least when it's inside [...] brackets. 05:55:19 You can define new words in Joy with DEFINE x == ... END 05:55:29 but you cannot define words at run time. 05:55:47 That sounds pretty neat. 05:56:03 Have you got any other favorite stack-based languages of study? 05:56:23 how are stack-based languages useful? they seem somewhat silly to me.. 05:57:48 hey grettke :) you can try factor too 05:57:54 Once you grok Joy, you can look at Forth or Factor, which impose restrictions on the basic Joy style in the interests of speed. 05:58:02 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-21-65.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 05:58:13 jonrafkind: Please elaborate. What have you learned and why did you find it silly? 05:58:25 what have I learned about what? 05:58:27 jonrafkind: exactly; why not just play around with an hp-15c, solve a few physics problems, and call it a day?L 05:58:54 leppie: Hi! Factor is getting a lot of publicity right now. 05:58:54 huh 05:59:09 how are stack-based languages useful? they seem somewhat silly to me.. 05:59:13 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 05:59:30 honestly I dont understand the 'joy' of working with a stack-based language either :) 05:59:31 jonrafkind> what have I learned about what? 05:59:45 jonrafkind: Stack-based languages. 05:59:49 I saw the video about factor, it didnt seem like I wanted to use it 05:59:54 I learned that.. they use a stack.. 06:00:01 I'm not much of a Joy programmer at all, although I enhanced the current Joy reference implementation quite a bit. 06:00:10 I have a very incomplete project to reimplement Joy in Chicken. 06:00:24 I just dont see how its a useful model to use in practice 06:00:43 jonrafkind: Ok. I am asking you then, how you reached that conclusion? 06:00:56 For one thing, concatenative programs can be transformed to and from a Lisp dialect wherein variables can only be set once and read once: Linear Lisp. 06:01:06 because I didnt find it easier/better than languages I already know 06:01:16 and Ive used reverse polish notation for a while and find it incredibly annoying 06:01:17 jonrafkind: ok 06:01:17 I don't think it's a conclusion, he just doesn't Get It (yet) 06:01:32 well I was asking because I dont get it 06:01:52 http://www.latrobe.edu.au/philosophy/phimvt/joy/j01tut.html is probably the right next thing to read. 06:01:58 and then the other papers at that site. 06:02:04 or some of them 06:02:27 jcowan: ok, thanks 06:03:10 jonrakind: Is this practical enough for you? http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet.html 06:03:21 jonrafkind: j/k of course :) 06:03:34 eli: do you know offhand the difference between Swindle's "memoize!" and dherman's memoize.plt ? 06:03:37 The truly cool thing about Joy is the recursive combinators, which provide skeletons for various kinds of recursions: primitive, linear, binary, etc. etc. 06:03:41 I wrote a webbrowser in that language 06:03:44 easy as pie! 06:04:04 jonrafkind: pie is not easy at all. particularly the crust 06:04:13 jonrafkind: What kind of crust? 06:04:24 the kind that transcends existence 06:04:55 "[null] [succ] [dup pred] [*] linrec" is the linear-recursive implementation of factorial, e.g. 06:05:17 so... readable 06:05:23 Not, I know. 06:05:31 It takes time to get used to, and more time to write fluently. 06:06:43 It means "If null, then do succ, else do dup, do pred, recurse, and do *." 06:06:44 so do you have to write the program as one giant expression? 06:06:59 No. As I said, you can define words 06:08:10 It is an extensible language, isn't it? 06:08:43 4 more days of work! cheers 06:09:11 fact = [null] [succ] [dup pred] [*] linrec. 06:09:17 sorry 06:09:20 how come they do [1 2 3] [dup *] map instead of [1 2 3] dup [*] map 06:09:26 fact == [null] [succ] [dup pred] [*] linrec. 06:10:02 Map takes two arguments, the command(s) to execute and the sequence to apply them to. 06:10:35 So it does 1 dup *, 2 dup *, 3 dup *, and assembles them into a list and pushes the list. 06:11:09 oh I see 06:11:29 Joy functions can't be variadic, because we don't know where to stop. 06:11:49 so its not like in scheme where you can say (map (lambda (a b) (* a b)) '(1 2 3 4) '(1 2 3 4)) 06:12:03 i mean the number of lists passed to Joy's map is always 1 06:12:08 Right. 06:12:17 You could write your own map2 that accepted 2 lists. 06:12:21 But don't ask me to do it! 06:13:39 There is a special word "stack" which pushes the whole stack on top of itself as a list. 06:14:30 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-18-156.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:14:49 it seems like you have to mash data together and take it apart whereas if you had variables you could store different pieces of data in a different variable 06:15:08 Contrariwise, "infra" takes two lists, S and L, throws away the rest of the stack, makes S the stack, executes L. 06:15:24 leppie: 4 more days of work? 06:15:47 (At least I think that's what it does) 06:16:05 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 06:19:44 waterh [i=3ba24401@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b71373abfa4c488d] has joined #scheme 06:20:57 surfing on plt-docs is really not getting me to point z quick enough... I have a query for the user to input a string, or what they think is a string... and I'm using read, thusly: (define (ask) (printf "Enter input: ") (set! some-string (read))) I've been able to deduce, through plt-docs, that in order for read to give some-string a real string, the user would have to input beginning and end quotes... I would like to let the u 06:20:57 ser not worry about that.. so I thought to string-append the quotes onto read returns.. which is to my understanding a symbol or datum... any ideas? 06:21:44 Do you want to read a *line*? 06:21:51 READ will read an S-expression. 06:21:56 READ-LINE will read a line. 06:22:53 bagg 06:23:06 I just figured that out... thank you Riastradh 06:23:11 arggh 06:23:17 CaptainMorgan, (read-string 4096) 06:23:18 cheers 06:24:24 jonrafkind, that's not exactly correct.. unless I misunderstand... that loops for input 06:24:32 read-line is definitely the cure 06:24:37 incubot: cure 06:24:40 They can cure it. It took a long time though. 06:24:45 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 06:24:48 it works if the users types in ctrl-d at the prompt 06:24:55 ah.. 06:25:10 otherwise you are right, it will try to read 4096 bytes 06:26:29 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 06:33:57 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 06:35:46 Ragnaroek [i=54a642ca@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-64802387ad6cdd79] has joined #scheme 06:36:19 ok guys I need advice 06:36:34 I'm using scheme to build an app which would be non trivial 06:37:04 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 06:37:12 the easiest/most efficient way I can think of is using list processing 06:37:27 problem is, I have to port this to 5 platforms 06:37:40 win, linux, solaris, hp_ux and aix 06:38:22 is it easy or even possible to write such cross compatible apps without resorting to wizardry 06:39:05 I've been sticking to basic scheme (r5rs) and some srfi's only 06:39:11 mostly srfi 13 06:39:40 but is the scene from one scheme implementation to another easy enough? 06:40:25 I've been able to make some little changes in the code to run it both in mzscheme and chicken 06:40:37 mostly require -> require-extension 06:40:57 but is Common Lisp a better choice further down the line? 06:41:53 it might be, if you are looking for systems that are fairly stable 06:44:12 clisp runs on at least the first three platforms 06:44:40 and so does sbcl 06:44:50 didnt ibm recently drop aix support? 06:47:38 dunno, but I'll have to support it 06:48:07 since my base app (not developed) in scheme/lisp runs on it 06:48:51 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 06:50:24 -!- foof [n=user@78-20-254-149.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:50:37 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 06:51:14 problem with CL is getting the (expensive) license for something like LispWorks or ACL 06:51:48 with the exception of chez, most scheme implementations are free 06:52:13 plus I know Scheme a tad bit better 06:53:10 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:57:21 clisp and sbcl are free 06:57:21 and there is this editor: http://sourceforge.net/projects/dandelion-ecl 06:59:19 wasn't the sbcl windows port experimental? 06:59:29 or is it stable enough for use 07:00:09 hey, thanks for the editor link, didn't know it existed 07:02:31 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:03:02 yes it's still experimental 07:12:29 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 07:23:08 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 07:28:59 it doesn't appear clear that there is a solution to working with MySQL, on planet... I only see resources for Postgres... I searched on Gmane and found a thread that is archived that I wanted to post to, but because it's archived I can't. The thread didn't have a conclusion as Hans was supposedly working on it... but I can't find if there is a driver available... 07:29:28 any pointers? 07:31:44 scheme's awesome 07:33:12 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 07:35:53 indeed 07:39:00 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 07:41:28 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-154.naist.jp] has quit [] 07:45:33 eh, screw it, I'll just use a hash table... 07:46:29 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a642ca@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-64802387ad6cdd79] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 07:46:31 CaptainMorgan: why not just work with sqlite? 07:46:45 klutometis, unfamiliarity and lack of time... 07:46:57 it's just like any other sql 07:47:19 hash's work in constant time I believe... but I'll just have to be weary of it getting to be too big 07:48:51 if you're just doing primitive key-value lookups and don't need persistence, shouldn't be looking at sql, anyway 07:48:59 my point was that sqlite is well supported by scheme 07:55:00 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:57:16 -!- wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:10:12 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054B8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:10:53 -!- pbusser2 [n=peter@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:19:07 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:19:17 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 08:21:07 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 08:22:20 jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has joined #scheme 08:28:23 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:38:56 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:39:10 kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43358.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 08:41:17 -!- gaja [n=Gabriel@c-3481e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["leaving"] 08:41:29 gaja [n=Gabriel@c-3481e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 08:44:22 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 08:47:59 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 08:52:35 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:52:52 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054B8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:02:18 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 09:11:27 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 09:12:54 AshyIsMe [n=User@220.157.86.160] has joined #scheme 09:17:16 -!- Vaeshir [n=zane@c-66-31-28-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 09:24:24 cracki [n=cracki@45-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 09:26:01 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@220.157.86.160] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:27:05 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-62-141.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:29:30 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-137-203.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:32:58 nanobit [n=cedric@91.142.56.44] has joined #scheme 09:34:21 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-62-141.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:35:06 yay I bought HTDP, finally got it in the local bookstore! :) 09:35:14 *waterh* does the jiggy dance 09:35:29 \o/ 09:36:35 i wish concrete abstractions was available too 09:37:05 but, can't complain - i finally got htdp after 8 months of requesting 09:41:39 does anyone face the same problem - the dearth of availability of scheme books locally? 09:41:44 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 09:44:43 I just order my stuff over the 'net 09:44:51 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-62-141.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:45:15 Got LiSP, the * Schemer series and SICP that way 09:47:46 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:47:50 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 09:47:58 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #scheme 09:51:09 yeah, i thought bookstores were for kitsch or incunabula 09:51:13 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-62-141.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:51:45 incubot: bookstores are for kitsch and incunabula 09:51:47 it's minority simply because most people mean "kitsch" to be derogatory, but you don't. 09:52:05 heh; sehr nice 09:52:32 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 09:56:27 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 10:01:43 pbusser2 [n=peter@82.174.238.138] has joined #scheme 10:02:42 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-62-141.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:03:26 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-62-141.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:06:36 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 10:07:49 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-137-203.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:10:59 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-137-203.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:12:46 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 10:13:47 LobsterMan [n=a@host72-50.student.udel.edu] has joined #scheme 10:14:15 -!- nanobit [n=cedric@91.142.56.44] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:14:18 Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 10:16:29 -!- kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43358.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:16:47 elmex [n=elmex@e180064003.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 10:18:02 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-62-141.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:18:35 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-62-141.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:21:06 i dont know if anyone can help me out here, i've been trying to prepare for my scheme final coming up, and i was having some problems with #6 here 10:21:07 http://www.cis.udel.edu/~saunders/courses/280/02s/lab/labI.html 10:21:14 perhaps someone can give me a hint or anything? 10:31:49 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-62-141.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:33:14 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-62-141.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:33:18 nanobit [n=cedric@91.142.56.44] has joined #scheme 10:34:22 I see an easy quadratic-time solution.. 10:34:58 exactly, with a hash table an EQ? 10:35:06 Let x and y start at the head of list and then iterate over the list - y going twice as fast as x 10:35:35 Even without hash table. 10:36:01 Once y overtakes x, you have found a point on the loop. 10:36:01 but google for floyd's tortoise and the hare for linear complexity 10:36:11 MichaelRaskin_: that's nice 10:36:29 klutometis: The trouble is with measuring the pre-loop part 10:37:00 hmm; good point 10:37:26 I see how to achieve N polylog N with some tricks 10:39:46 Hash table supposes some operation like (pointer pair) 10:44:06 Ragnaroek [i=8f5d37dc@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b86888160aa0b9f3] has joined #scheme 10:47:03 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-137-203.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:48:05 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-137-203.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:48:38 -!- cracki [n=cracki@45-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:49:08 oh hi, sorry i went afk a bit 10:50:36 i see, you guys are saying something like this 10:50:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_detection#Tortoise_and_hare 10:51:58 this might be beyond the scope of my intro to scheme class though heh 10:53:27 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-62-141.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:54:02 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-62-141.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:02:38 pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has joined #scheme 11:03:59 You have eq? , so you do not need this 11:07:07 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:09:32 yeah i've got 'equals?' 11:09:36 which is more or less the same i'd assume 11:10:50 No 11:11:02 equal? is not guaranteed to finish 11:11:06 eq? is 11:11:38 -!- pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Client Quit] 11:12:06 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 11:12:10 pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has joined #scheme 11:12:39 -!- pjdelport [n=pjd@dsl-243-31-29.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 11:12:56 pjdelport [n=pjd@dsl-243-31-29.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:20:53 are only procedures considered "pairs"? 11:21:16 No, why? 11:21:36 i think i'm lacking a bit of fundamental understanding here 11:25:15 (cons 1 2) will give you a pair 11:25:50 The pair it will give you is (1 . 2) 11:28:23 what about (define L '(1 2 3 4 5)) 11:28:37 is L a pair also? 11:28:39 L is a pair 11:28:43 (car L) not 11:29:36 how would that be represented in memory? 11:29:45 (L . '(list in here)) ? 11:31:20 (1 . (2 . (3 . (4 . (5 . NIL))))) 11:31:39 rpfeiffer [n=rincewin@h147.221.hpi.uni-potsdam.de] has joined #scheme 11:31:55 so is "pair" just what it's called, it's not actually a pair then? 11:32:13 so L is (L . (cdr L)) ? 11:32:36 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 11:33:02 If L is pair, L is (cons (car L) (cdr L)) 11:33:27 Pair is an entity which has car and cdr. 11:33:46 List is a pair - it has car (first element) and cdr (the rest of the list) 11:34:09 ah ok 11:34:31 this scheme stuff is a bit abstract for my liking :\ 11:35:03 you know linked lists. this is close enough. 11:35:18 yeah, i took a class in c++ on data scructures 11:35:25 this is my first class in scheme though 11:38:32 LobsterMan: lists are nested pairs terminated with null -- that's why a list is a pair 11:39:16 "list" is a synonym of null-terminated cdr-nested pairs 11:39:31 -!- noclouds [n=mhfan@61.190.36.114] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:39:51 and '(1 2 3 4) is just special syntax for '(1 . (2 . (3 . (4 . ())))) 11:40:18 here, some graphics on that: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-22.html#%_sec_3.3.1 11:40:29 that's the same book i'm looking at right now :) 11:40:35 heh, good 11:40:36 rudybot: eval (equal? '(1 2 3 4) '(1 . (2 . (3 . (4 . ()))))) 11:40:37 johnnowak: ; Value: #t 11:42:11 yeah things start getting fun with set-car! and set-cdr! 11:45:25 ohhh memq is a nice function to use for my problem 11:49:38 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #scheme 11:55:59 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-62-141.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:56:33 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-62-141.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:02:25 -!- pjdelport [n=pjd@dsl-243-31-29.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Operation timed out] 12:03:00 -!- Ragnaroek [i=8f5d37dc@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b86888160aa0b9f3] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 12:03:58 -!- jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:04:12 -!- rpfeiffer [n=rincewin@h147.221.hpi.uni-potsdam.de] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 12:09:32 pjdelport [n=pjd@dsl-243-31-29.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:14:10 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-137-203.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:14:31 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http://docs.plt-scheme.org/continue/index.html tutorial, and the line " (static-files-path "htdocs")" is a problem; I think the tutorial is old. Any suggestions? plt scheme is up to date 18:15:33 what is the problem with it 18:16:08 procedure application: procedure: #; does not expect an argument with keyword #:extra-files-path; arguments were: # #:extra-files-path # #:launch-browser? #t 18:17:48 what version of plt are you using? 18:17:55 waterh [n=waterh@114.143.32.183] has joined #scheme 18:18:02 ugh, nvm, google says how to fix it 18:18:14 4.1.3 18:18:37 what does google say 18:18:50 http://groups.google.com/group/plt-scheme/browse_thread/thread/df2a143d136dbb62?pli=1 18:18:52 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5v4nuz 18:22:53 yep, the McCarthy fix worked. 18:23:47 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-229-150.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 18:31:44 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p4FC17590.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:31:48 melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 18:36:18 mib_cx9rmr [i=c1258d02@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f339090e2f72a2ab] has joined #scheme 18:36:29 is jay mccarthy anyway related to john? 18:36:37 ;) 18:55:58 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 18:59:53 Ragnaroek [i=54a6747d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-69f7eeb88c3eecb5] has joined #scheme 19:01:32 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 19:01:39 aquanaut` [n=user@pool-71-191-49-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:03:23 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-229-150.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:23 -!- dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:23 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:23 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:23 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:23 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:23 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melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 19:11:01 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:11:01 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF5EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:11:01 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #scheme 19:11:01 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:11:01 Deformati [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:11:01 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 19:11:01 duncanm [n=duncan@a-chinaman.com] has joined #scheme 19:11:01 kazzmir_ [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:11:01 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 19:16:10 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [No route to host] 19:18:01 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:19:46 melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 19:21:35 can anyone tell if it would be easy for me to add serialization to this function, so that multiple "ticket sellers" can operate at the same time and not mess with the numbers 19:21:36 http://codepad.org/Vi1wIliB 19:23:05 i think i need to add the 'make-serializer' somewhere near the let as well as the if 19:23:42 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:23:43 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has left #scheme 19:23:54 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:24:50 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF5EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:26:12 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has joined #scheme 19:36:27 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:36:35 hey grettke 19:36:59 yeah 3 days left of work, then no more... still havent found anything :( 19:39:50 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF5EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:40:06 -!- jewel [n=jewel@41.247.196.124] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:41:43 did anyone get a chance to look at my function? :\ 19:42:04 hi leppie 19:42:48 leppie: you need to break into the lucrative market of international .net consulting 19:42:49 jewel [n=jewel@41.247.196.124] has joined #scheme 19:42:51 LobsterMan, are you running that functino in multiple threads? 19:43:06 yes 19:43:19 then you should using message passing instead of mutable variables 19:43:39 have one function that receives messages and internally knows the state of the tickets, then other threads send messages to it 19:43:46 i call a bunch of make-ticket-seller's via parallel-execute 19:44:08 you know what im sayin? 19:44:14 yeah, i thought it was something along those line jonrafkind 19:44:16 otherwise you probably have to use a mutex somewhere 19:44:30 well mutexs are already defined elsewhere 19:44:48 ...but ti looks like i don't actually use it 19:44:54 (define (make-mutex) 19:44:54 (let ((cell (make-semaphore 1))) 19:44:54 (define (the-mutex m) 19:44:54 (cond ((eq? m 'acquire) 19:44:54 (semaphore-wait cell)) 19:44:55 ((eq? m 'release) 19:44:57 (semaphore-post cell)))) 19:44:57 what scheme system are you using? 19:44:59 the-mutex)) 19:45:02 drscheme 19:45:08 and conforming to the sicp book 19:45:18 where is the pastebot? 19:45:20 you probably dont want to sleep either, its better to wait on a semaphore or even better an event 19:45:23 not really sure what it is beyond "drscheme" 19:45:29 http://codepad.org/Vi1wIliB 19:45:35 that's what i'm working on presently 19:46:06 grettke: lol, im no good at that 19:46:18 leppie: why not?@ 19:46:29 im not a social person 19:47:03 jonrafkind my prof gave us a whole "platform" to work with, but i suspect it's simple and i don't really know what i'm doing :[ 19:47:35 ok, you dont know how to use mutex's ? 19:48:18 not really 19:48:37 here's what the prof gave us, part3 is only what should need to be changed or so i'm told 19:48:38 http://codepad.org/3KgGJQ9z 19:50:39 leppie: You can learn to pretend how to be social. 19:50:54 sorry did someone say something? 19:50:58 :p 19:51:18 i already tried that, didnt work so well :| 19:51:33 leppie: If at first you don't succeed... 19:51:40 leppie: hehehe 19:52:07 -!- amoe [n=amoe@cpc3-brig3-0-0-cust346.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["leaving"] 19:52:30 LobsterMan, well basically you are asking us to do your homework for you, which I am hesitant to do. you should learn how to use mutex's 19:52:34 did the professor explain them to you? 19:52:59 LobsterMan: don't try to bite it all off at once. Start with one function. Do you understand one of the functions? 19:52:59 i'm not asking for you to do it 19:53:12 i'm just...a bit overwhelemed atm 19:53:12 heh 19:53:30 ok, so the answer to your original question is yes, its easy to add serialization to your function 19:53:34 i undersand make-ticket-seller more or less 19:53:36 LobsterMan: you are trying to do it all at once 19:53:50 i know grettke, i do that all too often and it doesn't usually work :| 19:54:07 wingo-tp [n=wingo@131.Red-81-38-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:54:27 good evening! i have a question to pose to an inappropriate audience. 19:54:37 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:54:47 people have been complaining recently to planet.lisp.org about asdf 19:54:49 and its crappiness 19:54:56 LobsterMan: IF you are samrt enough to get away with it, shame one you hahaha. 19:55:05 only sometimes hehe 19:55:16 how much of its crappiness is due to its implementation as a library of generic functions? 19:55:22 so in make-ticket-seller, is begin like an operand dispatch? 19:55:23 and moppy classes etc 19:56:14 Is that the extra operating system for CL? 19:56:49 heh 19:58:14 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 19:58:30 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 19:58:32 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Client Quit] 19:58:46 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 19:59:36 leppie: get a MS certification 19:59:53 got some, didnt help 20:00:11 mind u those were mcse's like 10 years back 20:02:29 leppie: yea, this falls into my plan of you working internationally anyway 20:04:21 is that a good or evil plan? :) 20:04:48 well guys i'm off to class, i think i'm on the right track with this now, if i have any questions you can bet i'll be back later :D 20:05:01 choas [n=lars@p5B0DD7BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:05:01 -!- ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:07:22 kniu [n=kniu@OLAWDYME.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:10:35 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 20:11:00 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 20:12:24 aneqrs [n=andreas@c83-253-104-206.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 20:19:52 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-72-216.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:21:15 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 20:21:20 edw: Neat, but I don't see what it has to do with having a separate function namespace. 20:22:02 mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:25:21 leppie: good plan! 20:27:18 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-229-150.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:27:20 :) im off to bed, need some good sleep, night 20:32:04 night 20:33:19 -!- incubot [n=incubot@24.205.65.135] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:34:10 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 20:35:09 peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:35:16 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:36:01 incubot [n=incubot@24.205.65.135] has joined #scheme 20:38:02 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:39:28 For your amusement: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/98551 20:41:25 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053BB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:41:26 mejja: What did you find most amusing about this? 20:46:09 a-s` [n=user@92.80.72.93] has joined #scheme 20:46:27 -!- drdo [n=psykon@wifi.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:56:24 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:56:29 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-29-133.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 20:56:49 -!- Modius_ is now known as Modius 20:58:41 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:01:14 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless25.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:01:43 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:03:06 athos_ [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 21:07:08 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-100-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 21:07:55 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:08:15 -!- athos_ [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 21:08:17 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 21:09:11 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 21:11:56 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-20-73.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:13:56 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 21:14:32 -!- waterh [n=waterh@114.143.32.183] has quit ["I don't like you. But Bersirc 2.2 does. Try it out now. [ http://www.bersirc.org/ - Open Source IRC ]"] 21:16:03 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:16:03 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:16:03 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:16:03 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:16:03 -!- kazzmir_ [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:16:03 -!- duncanm [n=duncan@a-chinaman.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:16:03 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:16:03 -!- Deformati [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:16:03 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:16:03 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-245-231.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:16:03 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:16:50 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 21:17:23 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:17:23 Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:17:23 Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-245-231.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:17:23 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:17:23 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #scheme 21:17:23 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:17:23 Deformati [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:17:23 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 21:17:23 duncanm [n=duncan@a-chinaman.com] has joined #scheme 21:17:23 kazzmir_ [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:17:23 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 21:19:15 uhm... 21:23:17 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:17 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:17 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:17 -!- kazzmir_ [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:17 -!- duncanm [n=duncan@a-chinaman.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:17 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:17 -!- Deformati [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:17 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:17 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-245-231.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:17 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:17 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:28 vitexdp [i=kvirc@94.179.211.29] has joined #scheme 21:24:20 Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-84-110-163-220.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 21:25:27 I am getting a wierd error when i load a file i made with DrScheme it works with DrScheme and it loads ok with Petit Chez Scheme but when i try to run it for some inputs it gives me a [Repl(15)] Error: variable null is not bound. 21:26:06 it has no "null?" predicate? 21:26:15 no 21:26:31 it means it has nothing bound to 'null' 21:26:51 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:26:51 just add (define null '()) I assume it's the same 21:27:43 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6747d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-69f7eeb88c3eecb5] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:28:50 yeah works, thanks 21:29:01 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:29:01 Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:29:01 Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-245-231.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:29:01 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:29:01 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #scheme 21:29:01 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:29:01 Deformati [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:29:01 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 21:29:01 duncanm [n=duncan@a-chinaman.com] has joined #scheme 21:29:01 kazzmir_ [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:29:01 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 21:29:11 -!- vitexdp [i=kvirc@94.179.211.29] has left #scheme 21:32:01 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:32:14 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 21:36:15 BW^- [n=Miranda@106-171.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #scheme 21:37:55 anyone knows Maddas' email address? 21:38:00 or other contact 21:38:22 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DD7BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:42:15 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 21:42:58 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-100-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:44:02 edw: Oh, you mean that it's WTFPL licensed. Awesome! :D 21:46:55 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@131.Red-81-38-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:49:40 -!- mib_cx9rmr [i=c1258d02@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f339090e2f72a2ab] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:50:07 mib_cx9rmr [i=c1258d02@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b2065290a688d09a] has joined #scheme 21:52:41 -!- mib_cx9rmr [i=c1258d02@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b2065290a688d09a] has quit [Client Quit] 21:56:26 mib_jbhq1e [i=c1258d02@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5e451d559ee91851] has joined #scheme 21:59:06 hocrap 21:59:21 I need to implement UID FETCH in the plt imap module. T_T I dunno how to submit patches though. 21:59:52 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 22:02:39 -!- Guest25722 [n=mike@dslb-088-066-239-124.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:06:53 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:10:37 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["bye now"] 22:10:39 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 22:10:50 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [] 22:15:11 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 22:17:48 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:24:51 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:25:07 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless25.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 22:25:43 -!- mib_jbhq1e [i=c1258d02@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5e451d559ee91851] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 22:30:43 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 22:30:59 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 22:33:59 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:34:10 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 22:34:59 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176217111.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:36:17 synx: just curious, what anthropomorphism is T_T supposed to convey: prominent eyebrows, feline irises? 22:38:16 -!- BW^- [n=Miranda@106-171.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 22:38:28 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 22:39:26 I always thought its Tear_Tear... 22:39:41 -!- kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43358.access.telenet.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:40:13 yes I'm having a hard time, sorry. 22:41:12 So far, UID FETCH acts exactly like FETCH...except the response has "UID" stuck in it so it doesn't parse right. 22:44:06 synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:45:57 -!- incubot [n=incubot@24.205.65.135] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:46:33 -!- jewel [n=jewel@41.247.196.124] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:49:19 incubot [n=incubot@24.205.65.135] has joined #scheme 22:49:34 -!- a-s` [n=user@92.80.72.93] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:51:56 synx: are you testing your IMAP client code against a reasonbly 22:52:00 oops 22:52:10 reasonably-well-designed IMAP server? 22:55:26 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-149-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 22:56:00 -!- Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-84-110-163-220.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [] 22:57:04 peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:57:06 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 22:58:49 It's gmail... 22:58:50 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:59:43 When you do a UID FETCH, it responds as if you requested the 'uid result implicitly. Or so I thought. 23:00:31 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-72-216.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:00:45 But adding in 'uid to the field-items if in "uid mode" still produces the error. It fetches fine, but is stored in the wrong place in the fetches list. 23:02:18 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-204-196-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:03:49 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 23:05:04 Oh I see. 23:05:43 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-32-188.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 23:08:02 with a response like "* 1 FETCH (UID 45 RFC822.TEXT {28}" it stores that fetch under 1, not 45, and since the message was selected by uid as 45, there's no way of knowing it'd be at index 1. 23:09:27 lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.147] has joined #scheme 23:14:33 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 23:15:03 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:18:52 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit ["leaving"] 23:21:02 -!- aneqrs [n=andreas@c83-253-104-206.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 23:21:03 If you insert the same thing into a red-black tree twice, does it take up much more space, or just for the two keys? 23:22:52 ? 23:22:54 Define `insert'. 23:23:02 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-29-133.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:26:20 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 23:26:21 They already did... 23:26:28 (let ((stuff "stuff")) (rb-insert! tree 1 stuff) (rb-insert! tree 45 stuff)) is what I'm thinking of doing. 23:26:37 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:27:08 There will be between zero and two nodes added to the tree after that expression; what more do you want to know? 23:27:10 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF5EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:27:16 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:27:36 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:27:51 I want to know if the value in stuff is copied or replicated. 23:27:59 `Replicated'? 23:28:08 I don't think so, but there is one search tree that does that... 23:28:11 What do `copy' and `replicate' mean? 23:28:24 What does the `stuff' have to do with the search part of the tree? 23:28:53 Nothing at all! But if there's two nodes pointing to stuff... I guess that's no memory requirement really. 23:31:11 -!- lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.147] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 23:33:13 Anyway, so no worries. 23:33:18 https://synx.us.to/feepcode/gmailAlias/fake/imap-unit.diff 23:33:48 That's the changes I made to the net/imap module, to get it to support UID FETCH. 23:34:07 Why do you post files with names ending in `.scm' and `.diff' which are actually not remotely Scheme source files or the output of diffat all? 23:34:09 Was getting the wrong header with the wrong body without it. >.< 23:35:42 I like pretty colors. It's easier to read. ._. 23:36:18 If I want pretty colours I can readily apply them myself. On the other hand, extracting Scheme code from an elaborate HTML file is a non-trivial exercise. 23:36:52 that's what the "download" link is there for... 23:37:37 I don't get there -- all I see is a pile of HTML at which point I lose interest. 23:38:08 Name the file `.html' if you want to tell me to look at an HTML file; otherwise you are being dishonest and wasting my time. 23:39:58 :( Sorry for troubling you. 23:40:07 https://synx.us.to/code/gmailAlias/fake/imap-unit.diff 23:40:26 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 23:40:57 when you're trying to add serialization to a procedure, is it usually as simple as just adding local support for serialization within the said process where it's needed? 23:41:17 That depends on the nature of the procedure, LobsterMan. 23:41:22 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-42-203.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 23:41:56 i've got this procedure 23:41:56 -!- rotty [n=rotty@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:41:57 http://codepad.org/uwOfZt2q 23:42:12 rotty [n=rotty@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 23:42:18 and a (make-serializer) with mutexes and all that already set up 23:42:28 Can you please use lisppaste to paste your code here? 23:42:30 lisppaste: url 23:42:30 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 23:43:12 lobsterman pasted "serializer?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71881 23:43:24 Thanks. 23:43:29 np :] 23:44:45 i'm having a hard time trying to figure out how to actually insert the (make-serializer) and keep the syntax correct :\ 23:45:02 What does your MAKE-SERIALIZER procedure do? 23:45:48 sets up the mutex, determines if it's acquired or released 23:45:58 and sets the cell accordingly 23:46:10 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-32-188.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:46:15 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 23:47:14 and sleep just waits 23:47:51 -!- isomer [n=isomer@001310E6CB31.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:48:01 what i'm not sure of now is do i need to change my make-ticket-seller to use message passing, or if a simple line here or there will suffice 23:50:41 it's being tested by calling a whole bunch of instances of make-ticket-seller via parallel-execute which gives them each their own thread 23:51:33 and it runs, but my numbers are still not what the total should be at the end (usually greater than 100, which is what it should be) 23:51:37 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 23:52:16 Context: I presume these are the SICP MAKE-SERIALIZER and PARALLEL-EXECUTE? 23:52:24 yeah 23:55:00 this is what i've been looking at trying to figure it out also 23:55:00 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-23.html#%_sec_3.4.2 23:55:41 So, what might screw up if you have multiple sellers tripping over themselves? 23:55:56 they sell more tickets than are actually available 23:57:08 so i'm going to need to "keep track" of, so to speak, total-tickets-sold and *SEATS-LEFT* 23:57:13 Just to clarify -- are you running (PARALLEL-EXECUTE (MAKE-TICKET-SELLER 'ARNOLD) (MAKE-TICKET-SELLER 'ARTHUR) ...), and never calling a single seller more than once? 23:57:28 yep 23:57:51 i can paste the rest of my supplimentary code if you want to see it, but i figured the procedure in question was sufficient 23:58:15 So will the total tickets sold by any particular seller ever be inconsistent, no matter how simultaneously the sellers sell? 23:58:34 yeah, that's what the random sleep function does 23:58:52 waits for a random period of time to allow for those inconsistencies between different ticket vendors 23:59:42 How can the total number of tickets sold by a particular seller be inconsistent?