00:00:10 -!- aneqrs [n=andreas@c83-253-104-206.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 00:00:25 seth [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 00:04:40 -!- set2 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:13:43 -!- Elly [n=pyxy@unaffiliated/elly] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:13:47 Elly [n=pyxy@PHYREXIA.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:15:36 -!- kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:15:56 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@66.178.229.162] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:18:55 gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:19:11 synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:19:25 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:23:58 ... with their long hair, loud music and dry heaves 00:25:32 phao [n=phao@189.13.131.116] has joined #scheme 00:29:10 Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 00:31:22 arcfide [n=arcfide@99.137.200.238] has joined #scheme 00:31:23 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit [Success] 00:33:49 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:39:43 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska182223.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:41:16 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-130-100.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:42:30 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska182223.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:45:09 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 00:45:55 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska182223.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:46:55 *klutometis* wondereth why youngs heave dryly 00:47:21 U+2061 00:51:29 damnit, that's an awesome glyph 00:52:30 *Daemmerung* subscribes to the "Invisible Times" 00:52:39 yep 00:53:11 I also like U+206A and the ever-popular U+4DFD 00:53:45 obviously though, having a one-character alias for APPLY will be really convenient 00:54:00 right up there with GREEK LETTER LAMDA 00:54:13 ... 00:55:45 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 00:56:03 hey arcfide, speaking of which, your ellipsis is no longer a Unicode glyph 00:56:29 zbignew: I have taken to avoiding doing something like that on this channel. 00:56:36 zbigniew: ^^^ 00:57:10 Although I have yet to eradicate long strings of -ing words in my sentence structure, yet. 00:58:16 On the other hand, I am not on an Operating System or Windowing system that encourages such behavior, so I am working mostly with ASCII now. 00:58:58 what were you using before? the Gerund OS? 00:59:29 Heh, sorry, reference ellipsis behavior in previous sentence. 00:59:55 wasabi___ [n=wasabi@ntoska213089.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:01:38 On the other hand, I definitely made progress on my robots the other day. 01:01:41 It was so nice. :-) 01:03:44 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska182223.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:05:29 Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 01:06:27 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska182223.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:08:05 Daemmerung: this artist's rendition of invisible times conjures up an extra-dimensional emergence: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2062/invisible_times.png 01:10:55 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:13:55 szTheory [n=tanukibr@cpe-69-207-165-122.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:14:08 Hello 01:14:18 GreyLensman [n=user@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:14:59 #emacs 01:15:35 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFECB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:16:01 How do I implement sin or cos in scheme? 01:16:33 I'm just learning the language, and figured building up a little math library would be fun, given that scheme is based on lambda calc 01:17:01 mfredrickson_ [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:21:09 Taylor series, or CORDIC. Note however - 01:21:12 r5rs sin 01:21:12 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_318 01:21:13 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5jnk2z 01:21:47 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFE8D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:22:51 klutometis: lolcats have permamently damaged my notion of invisibility 01:25:06 -!- karsten_ [n=karsten@dslb-088-072-254-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:26:20 -!- amoe [n=amoe@cpc3-brig3-0-0-cust346.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["leaving"] 01:29:35 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:30:03 edw [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 01:31:36 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 01:31:51 -!- wasabi___ [n=wasabi@ntoska213089.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:32:27 -!- orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFE8D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:32:34 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFE8D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:32:45 -!- mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:34:44 mqt [n=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has joined #scheme 01:36:25 edw` [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 01:37:36 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFECB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:37:52 ceiling cat is watching you tabulate (horizontally) 01:39:43 anyway, shouldn't you be directing szTheory to church numerals? 01:40:59 -!- edw` [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:41:33 edw` [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 01:44:02 null-terminated string theory: direct your attention to exercise 2.6 in SICP under section 2.1.3 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-14.html#%_sec_2.1.3 01:44:45 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 01:45:31 -!- edw [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:47:13 Kerris0 [n=Kerris@87-194-3-170.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:47:14 hey thanks a lot 01:47:22 -!- Kerris0 [n=Kerris@87-194-3-170.bethere.co.uk] has left #scheme 01:48:41 you might be sarcastic there, but SICP does contain a huge amount of interesting stuff ... if you're new to scheme and of a math bent and interested in the theory, definitely start at the beginning 01:49:24 word. not being sarcastic, this is exactly what I needed 01:49:49 cool. you will enjoy it 01:50:10 -!- Kopophex [n=kopophex@dtp-1.dyn.cs.washington.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:51:14 -!- phao [n=phao@189.13.131.116] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:57:07 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 01:57:37 -!- edw` [n=user@poseur.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:59:00 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 02:01:19 -!- mqt [n=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:01:37 mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has joined #scheme 02:04:43 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-37-192.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 02:05:33 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:08:13 edw` [n=user@poseur.com] has joined #scheme 02:11:14 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:12:01 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:12:43 -!- sam_ [n=Sami__@hoasnet-fe1add00-113.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 02:13:07 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:14:35 -!- geckosen1tor [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:19:13 SICP++ 02:22:27 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-11-106.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:25:22 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 02:28:21 geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:30:41 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:33:34 -!- orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFE8D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:33:57 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:35:42 -!- mfredrickson_ [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:38:48 geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:48:09 mfredrickson_ [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:50:04 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:57:37 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176209176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:59:01 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has joined #scheme 03:01:12 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 03:01:54 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@99.137.200.238] has quit ["Sleep"] 03:05:44 ziggurat [n=ziggurat@pool-71-244-44-183.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:07:22 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p6108-ipbfp205kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:11:28 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-212.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 03:13:32 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:19:08 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 03:20:43 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 03:21:02 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 03:26:44 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:30:46 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:32:57 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:35:01 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 03:43:40 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:56:43 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 04:00:29 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:01:04 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180066115.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:02:04 elmex [n=elmex@e180068137.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:03:20 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 04:05:23 does scheme provide anything like symbol-value or symbol-function? of course it doesnt since scheme is a lisp-1, not a lisp-2; however, is there a scheme function where I can give it a symbol name ... and get back the value of the name from the environment? 04:06:18 hmm, no one is responding, let's try this 04:06:39 lisp is better than scheme; lisp has symbol-value and symbol-function; scheme has nothing like that? prove me wrong, by construction 04:07:18 hml: haha 04:07:20 nice try :P 04:08:05 hml: fwiw, eval ;P 04:08:20 > (define foo 42) 04:08:20 > (define bar 'foo) 04:08:20 > (eval bar) 04:08:20 42 04:09:00 lisp doesn't even exist 04:09:07 you can't prove anything! 04:09:46 hml: there's nothing standard, but PLT has something (I think) like that in its "namespaces" 04:10:00 set1 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 04:11:10 Elly: amazing, I'm an idiot, to know of eval's existence, but not use it like that; thanks! 04:11:25 hml: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/guide/mk-namespace.html#(part._.Creating_and_.Installing_.Namespaces) 04:11:33 results may vary! 04:11:41 i'm using chicken :-( ... or maybe :-) 04:11:41 rudybot: uptime 04:11:41 offby1: I've been up for two weeks, four days; this tcp/ip connection has been up for two weeks, four days 04:11:48 *offby1* wonders where his tinyurl is 04:11:51 http://tinyurl.com/6ejr7e 04:15:04 set2 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 04:16:11 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["leaving"] 04:17:07 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-15-161.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 04:17:50 -!- set1 [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:20:39 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p6108-ipbfp205kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 04:21:25 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 04:27:50 -!- seth [n=seth@76-191-139-155.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:35:12 -!- mfredrickson_ [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:35:19 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p6108-ipbfp205kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:35:27 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-37-192.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:35:42 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@c-98-212-171-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:39:02 hml: never, ever, ever use this, but a corresponding procedure is (global-ref SYMBOL) 04:39:28 incubot: (global-ref 'car) 04:39:28 Error: unbound variable: global-ref 04:39:44 incubot: you don't have unit lolevel loaded 04:39:44 incubot: (require-extension lolevel) 04:39:46 now (use lolevel) 04:39:46 Error: (load-library) unable to load library 04:40:13 aaaaah it's so asynchronous 04:41:55 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-6-28.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 04:44:23 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 04:58:31 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-15-161.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:01:43 -!- szTheory [n=tanukibr@cpe-69-207-165-122.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:03:41 -!- gnomon_ is now known as gnomon 05:10:29 *offby1* clears his throat portentously 05:10:34 rudybot: seen eli 05:10:34 offby1: eli was seen in/on #scheme two days, two hours ago, saying "Doesn't look like it will be hard to make it work.", and then eli was seen in/on #scheme six hours, twenty-three minutes ago, saying "CaptainMorgan: Yes, brown is suffering some major breakage. It was supposed to be restored by now, but things are bad. I've changed some names and it should be up from a temporary machine soon." 05:11:01 *gnomon* chuckles at rudybot's display 05:11:08 prolix! 05:11:09 like me. 05:11:44 How does rudybot deal with situations when his output would be truncated? Does he try to be smart about it? 05:11:47 rudybot: eval (string-join (list "bleah" "bah") ", and then") 05:11:50 offby1: error: string-join: expected argument of type ; given {"bleah" "bah"} 05:11:54 gnomon: define "smart" 05:12:06 oh crap, he's still got R5RS conses stuck in his craw 05:12:26 rudybot: eval ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)) 05:12:30 Vaeshir: error: eval:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 05:12:33 pfft 05:12:33 Woops. 05:12:38 been there, done that 05:12:51 -!- offby1 is now known as not 05:12:54 And? 05:12:56 rudybot: eval (string-join (list "bleah" "bah") ", and then") 05:12:57 not: ; Value: "bleah, and thenbah" 05:13:00 rudybot: eval ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) 05:13:02 -!- not is now known as offby1 05:13:03 Vaeshir: error: with-limit: out of time 05:13:08 Nice. 05:13:13 *offby1* blushes 05:13:35 offby1, just why exactly did rudybot run that code differently depending on your username? 05:13:52 gnomon: he keeps a separate sandbox for each nick. 05:13:57 up to a maximum of three 05:14:07 :) 05:14:09 Is he yours? 05:14:13 so if three other people did "eval", my old sandbox would get evicted, and I could then start with a fresh one. 05:14:14 Vaeshir: yup 05:14:17 (and by "smart" I meant "does he attempt to break the output into two strings, or add a diaresis, or simply complain about brevity being the soul of wit?") 05:14:29 offby1, ah, interesting! 05:14:30 Vaeshir: I wrote him when I was bored outta my mind at Amazon 18 months ago 05:14:55 offby1: I like him. Probably adds a lot of value to the channel. 05:14:56 rudybot: source 05:14:56 offby1: http://github.com/offby1/rudybot 05:15:09 Vaeshir: about this much (holds thumb and forfinger 1/4" apart) 05:15:30 as you can see, I too have drunk the github Kool-Ade 05:16:02 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-17-187.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 05:16:03 What do you think of it, generally? I've heard good things but haven't dived in yet m'self. 05:16:12 I've had good experiences with it. 05:16:35 Old folks in the channel might remember the band "Boston"s first album, which proudly proclaimed: "No computers used. No synthesizers used". Well, I proudly proclaim: rudybot contains no IRC-client library stuff; I wrote all that myself. 05:16:52 gnomon: about a year ago I was mumbling that their uptime wasn't so great, but since then it's been fine 05:17:00 offby1: ? 05:17:01 and you gotta love those guys; they're just so CUTE! 05:17:05 eli: howdy 05:17:14 I think Mr Vaeshir had a Q or 2 for U 05:17:20 (...howdy ho...?) 05:17:45 Vaeshir: it's scary. You say his name and he appears ... like some kinda ... some kinda ... appearing-in-the-channel-prof-dude 05:17:58 offby1, on the strength of your sterling recommendation, I'll have to give it a try ;) 05:18:08 BTW, should I crash rudybot now, or should I crash it later? 05:18:08 offby1, like some kinda jcowan? 05:18:17 yeah. Unvanishing. 05:18:23 Spooky, that. 05:18:25 eli: oh go ahead 05:18:34 although I _was_ hoping to break the uptime record 05:18:37 (three weeks, I think) 05:18:59 ,salespitch We aren't gonna lie. Emacs sucks. Some of us tolerate it, but we can't tell you if YOU'LL be able to. Try it and make up your own mind. 05:19:01 Just that I fixed a few things, and have a few more things to fix on the stak. 05:19:16 I am proud to have contributed in some small way. 05:19:26 rudybot: eval (kill-thread (current-thread)) 05:19:27 eli: error: with-limit: out of memory 05:19:36 lolwut 05:19:45 rudybot: eval (custodian-shutdown-all (current-custodian)) 05:19:46 eli: error: with-limit: out of memory 05:20:01 Ah, he's using per-evaluation limits, so that takes care of that. 05:20:09 Trident, meet shield! 05:20:20 Well played, rudybot. 05:20:24 immovable object, meet unstoppable force! 05:20:35 gnomon: it's mostly eli's code anyway 05:21:17 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:27:28 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:27:44 *offby1* again clears his throat portentously 05:28:35 eli: Do you know of any examples of TCP servers written in PLT keep a record of the active connections? offby1 and I were puzzling over how to implement such a thing. 05:29:51 Vaeshir: What do you mean? 05:30:24 eli: For example, a TCP echo server that broadcasts all lines sent to it to all connected clients. 05:30:29 I'd ask a far more specific question: what's the PLT equivalent of the "try/finally" that you see in other languages? 05:30:33 That'd be the trivial example. 05:30:41 dynamic-wind might do it, but somehow it feels wrong 05:30:48 Well, I'm wondering if there's an approach here that doesn't even need try/finally/dynamic-wind. 05:30:58 have fun explaining it ... 05:31:33 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-6-28.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:31:43 `dynamic-wind' *is* the equivalent of that. 05:31:46 Stevie also suggested using weak references, but that doesn't quite work. 05:31:46 oh. 05:32:00 *offby1* dimly recalls eli rapping his knuckles for using dynamic-wind 05:32:01 Alternatively, do it "manually": 05:32:28 (with-handlers ([void (lambda (e) (cleanup) (raise e))]) (begin0 (...expression...) (cleanup))) 05:32:34 So have some hashtable and manually ... yeah. 05:32:37 That's a simplistic version of this. 05:32:40 (define (cleanup)whatever) (with-handlers ([void (cleanup)] (do-stuff) (cleanup))) 05:32:42 damn 05:32:43 jinx 05:33:03 M'k. 05:33:06 Cheers. 05:33:22 But neither of these are going to work with killing the thread or shutting dow the custodian. 05:33:38 There are solutions for these situations too, of course. 05:33:50 This was the first stab: http://gist.github.com/32609 05:33:51 of course 05:34:24 Oh, and there's also `custodian-managed-list'. 05:34:29 oho 05:34:57 For that you need to track the super custodian for some reason. 05:35:17 Q: Why would a man marry another man? A: Security! 05:35:55 Vaeshir: I didn't look too closely, but it seems like it's going in the right direction. 05:36:07 eli: Okay. Good to know I'm not completely off. 05:36:27 As for the super custodian -- when you think about it, it *is* needed to make sure that you can't get resources that you shouldn't. 05:36:46 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-14-26.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 05:36:50 It forces you to create your own custodian, and track what *it* manages. 05:37:10 Right. 05:37:15 That makes sense. 05:37:46 I think I tried using custodian-managed-list. I can't remember what the problem was. 05:39:13 These things can get a little tricky, but they are usually solvable in a way that does make sense. 05:42:40 I think I may need three levels of custodians. 05:42:42 *Vaeshir* ruminates. 05:42:48 *foof* wonders why his html parser, which is all around superior to htmlprag, gets completely ignored... 05:43:00 foof: Marketing is hard. 05:43:24 :/ 05:43:48 Vaeshir: That's questionable. I still didn't see any case where three levels are needed. 05:44:23 foof: so gimme 05:44:42 eli: In order to be able to isolate the custodians that are managing the i/o ports and handler threads. 05:44:54 offby1: gimyou what? 05:44:59 your html parser 05:45:05 It's custodians all the way down! 05:45:06 foof: Where is your html parser? 05:45:16 eli: That makes one top-level custodian, one custodian for the tcp-accept, and one for all the connection custodians. 05:45:17 http://synthcode.com/scheme/html-parser.scm 05:45:37 tanks! 05:45:48 (The sandbox library uses four levels at some point, but this only because detecting memory errors requires two custodians, and there are two layers of checks.) 05:46:10 foof: Define popular. 05:46:25 eli: The tricky bit is isolating the custodians for the things you care about. 05:46:33 Vaeshir: Yes. 05:46:41 eli: In this case, i/o ports and handler threads. 05:46:54 grettke: Who said anything about popular? 05:46:58 Yeah -- IOW, managing a connection. 05:47:30 foof: You can wrap it in a planet library, make it do the same interface that htmlprag does, then advertise it as a convenient replacement. 05:47:35 grettke, Popular, defined: http://lyricwiki.org/Wicked:Popular 05:48:17 foof: I read "not ignored" as "popular". 05:48:47 foof: If you publish it to PLaneT it will get publicity. 05:49:13 eli: It has html->sxml. 05:49:29 Riastrad1 [n=rias@pool-151-203-245-231.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:49:43 foof: who was that guy yesterday or the day before who was despairing of getting htmlprag working with PLT? 05:50:17 foof: Well then, making it popular (in the planet-package-replacement-for-htmlprag) would be simple. 05:50:22 xwl [n=user@221.221.152.3] has joined #scheme 05:50:48 http://www.paulgraham.com/popular.html 05:50:49 eli: I was kind of waiting for comments or interest before bothering to put it in planet... 05:51:04 foof: well, that guy yesterday would have been interested ... 05:51:32 Well, "the masses" are usually (justifiably) lazy... 05:51:43 offby1: It doesn't seem like it, since he didn't reply. 05:51:43 'twas CaptainMorgan 05:52:23 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:52:25 eli: I guess people don't appreciate how easy LOAD is... 05:52:27 im sure someone will enjoy this.. 05:52:29 jonrafkind> its not an opinion that load/eval is unsecure. thats a fact 05:52:29 to you it's a fact 05:52:29 to me it's a feature. 05:52:44 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-17-187.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:52:49 offby1: We should replace car and cdr with c and d, we would work 66% less. 05:53:08 foof: `load' is most definitely not easy for those who are spoiled by the advantages of a module system. 05:53:43 But to just try something out from a REPL it's easier than installing someone's code. 05:54:15 I'm not talking about installing -- it's perfectly fine if you put the whole code in a single module. 05:54:47 The problem with `load' is that you immediately run into the usual mess of managing the global namespace, and the usual diseases that you get through that. 05:55:35 foof: Is your release philosophy that user will wrap your code in their module system of choice (PLT, Chicken...)? 05:55:48 Right, LOAD sucks for actually using code, but if you just want to try some random code you found a link to it's even easier than a module system. 05:56:03 (arguably not easier than planet's automatic downloads) 05:56:33 I completely agree with the "try out a file" point, but not with `load'... 05:56:46 grettke: Yeah, I had a portability framework but it didn't catch on and was a pain to maintain. 05:56:52 If my code is already in a module, then trying out a `load' file is not going to be easy. 05:57:11 nicksterdomus [n=nick@247-75.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:57:33 eli: No code is in a module - I'm talking about trying it out from the REPL. 05:57:57 foof: Yes, I got that -- but what if *my* code is in a module? 05:58:07 Which code? 05:58:17 The code that I need htmlprag for. 05:58:43 *gnomon* questions the decision to place the preposition at the end of that sentence 05:58:50 Oh, if you want to try to use my library as a replacement for htmlprag, than it is indeed inconvenient to use LOAD. 05:59:10 I was talking about just manually trying out some of the procedures. 05:59:37 ...and that was my point -- if it's easy to drop it into a module, than that would be a big step. Even if you need to pour some files into a single file. 05:59:38 -!- xwl [n=user@221.221.152.3] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:59:55 It's just one, small file. 06:00:09 ...and then you go from there to planet. (This is all assuming that by "ignored" you mean on the plt list.) 06:00:21 (yes) 06:00:39 I tried your code foof, html-parser.scm, but I couldn't incorporate into in my own work... couldn't see how it would work... 06:00:59 CaptainMorgan: I have a tiny example 06:01:00 CaptainMorgan: What interface are you currently using for parsing HTML? 06:01:06 foof, interface? 06:01:14 offby1, I'd love to see it! 06:01:26 offby1 pasted "CaptainMorgan: how I did it" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71677 06:01:58 k, I should've been more verbose... 06:02:05 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-198-69.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:02:06 that much I understand offby1 06:02:14 oh. 06:02:20 well, ask Mr Foof; he's right here 06:02:32 but what's to parse in that example? I'm specifically trying to pull/grab/accumulate links 06:02:54 hence my regex from yesterday, which worked nicely, but the end result wasn't something I could work with 06:03:00 foof: In any case, it seems that now would be a good time to grab that piece of market share -- and it seems that Neil would like that too. 06:03:12 is Neil around? 06:03:23 said in the mailing list he might be updating htmlprag this weekend 06:03:37 CaptainMorgan: my example has a little bit of HTML in it. 06:03:41 foof: And what I said earlier is that you can even write another file that reprovides the same functionality so it can be dropped in for people who need that stuff in working code. 06:03:51 you can replace the (open-input-string ...) stuff with a simple reference to your input port. 06:04:42 foof, sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by interface... I'm using DrScheme.. but I'm going to paste the code I was using in a bit... 06:04:56 indeed offby1, I'll post it.. 06:06:55 offby1, for instance, in your example - say you have many p's, what would be your technique for accumulating *only* the p's and being able to work with them? 06:08:56 p =

tags 06:09:16 -!- nicksterdomus [n=nick@247-75.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 06:09:19 or rather... what is *found* in between the enclosing tags 06:10:47 GreyLensma1 [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:10:58 here it is: http://paste.lisp.org/display/71629 06:11:00 CaptainMorgan: That's what you use SXPATH, or MATCH, or whatever for. 06:11:02 -!- GreyLensma1 [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 06:11:18 CaptainMorgan: that's a list-processing question, not an html-parsing question 06:11:18 aye, I tried that too... 06:11:23 ... or with my parser you can only process those tags w/o building the whole sxml tree. 06:13:14 I tried sxpath for I got weirdness that I can't remember... I'll try to reproduce it 06:14:20 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 06:16:08 offby1, in that code example I just posted... oddly, which furthered my confusion, what is returned is not a list... its representation was similar to: ("foofile.com/link1" "foofile.com/link340" "foofile.com/linkbar") after some testing, it appears it's a contract and I'd like to know how to work with them... or at least reconstruct it into a list 06:17:13 the title of that code incorrect.. it should not be what "regex returns", but what "links is or represents" 06:18:48 xwl [n=user@221.221.152.3] has joined #scheme 06:20:17 I have no idea what you're talking about :-| 06:20:22 that code doesn't work for me anyway 06:22:32 -!- ziggurat [n=ziggurat@pool-71-244-44-183.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:23:35 you would need to fileinject the htmlprag that is found on the plt mailing list 06:24:29 but actually, if html-parser.scm produces the same tree format, I can't see why that couldn't take htmlprag's place... 06:26:38 eli: Why is this ill-formed? (require (planet "html-parser.ss" (ashinn html-parser 1 0))) 06:26:40 ah, here's a familiar fault: offby1 , using that example you gave, I wrote this: (write (html->sxml my-port)) which produces *only*: (*TOP*) 06:27:09 yeah, use copy-port 06:27:19 hmm 06:27:24 maybe not 06:28:26 offby1, weirdly: (define page (html->sxml my-port)) and then (write page) produces the tree... 06:28:26 I think you need to separate your concerns 06:28:36 eli: I think I've mentioned this before, but an actual example of a full planet package would be worth more than all the docs put together. 06:28:37 *CaptainMorgan* is a worrywort 06:28:40 something's confusing you 06:28:45 foof: that looks like you want to use string forms throughout. 06:28:51 *CaptainMorgan* agrees with that... just not sure what 06:29:17 foof: you probably want something like this instead: (require (planet ashinn/html-parser:1:0/html-parser)) 06:29:21 simplify your confusion 06:29:36 eli: Seriously, the docs say (require (planet ( <.plt file name without path> ))) 06:29:37 come up with a self-contained two-line snippet that doesn't do what you expect, then paste that 06:29:44 How the hell are you supposed to understand what that means? 06:29:46 foof: As for the actual example, there should be one there, I think -- but I generally cannot agree with you more. 06:29:53 All they need is an actual example. 06:30:02 *nod 06:30:05 *offby1* likes examples 06:30:11 Fezzik likes rhymes 06:30:25 foof: The docs are likely not caught up with the new and more convenient syntax. 06:30:57 eli: OK, got it working with the shortened syntax. 06:31:21 foof: and this new syntax should be documented somewhere, it's /::/ 06:31:50 where the version numbers are optional (and give you the recent one if omitted), and can also be omitted if it's `main' 06:32:08 (Oh, and should be in the above.) 06:32:21 All of this is wrapped with a big "IIRC". 06:33:04 s/with/in/ 06:33:05 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-122-191.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 06:33:37 anyone here in game dev? 06:33:53 eli: OK, package uploaded. 06:34:04 i'm just curiouss to hear other scheme/lisp storeis besides naughty dog software / crash bandicot --> sony buyout 06:34:42 hml, I am, and Naughty Dog is the only story you will hear 06:34:42 foof: Now all you need is an announcement on the mailing list... 06:34:46 they still use PLT though 06:35:15 Arelius: what? Naughty Dog was based on PLT? I thought they rolled their own in C 06:36:04 ... Crash had GOOL for script which was a custom language written in Alleggro 06:36:19 Alleggro is based on PLT? 06:36:30 Jak used GOAL which was a custom language used for the whole games written in Alleggro 06:36:31 no 06:36:41 < Arelius> they still use PLT though <-- ? 06:37:08 and For uncharted they used PLT as a pre-processor data-compiler etc 06:37:52 "For uncharted" <-- is this a new game? 06:38:54 it was released on the PS3 almost a year ago 06:39:31 Arelius: they did? 06:39:44 err 06:39:53 "Uncharted: Drake's fortune" 06:40:19 Arelius: Are you sure that they used plt? 06:40:35 yes, not during run-time though 06:41:08 Link? 06:41:34 i'd love to read about it too 06:42:13 I'll see if I can find it 06:43:09 Arelius++ 06:43:22 oh wait, this is scheme 06:43:34 so it should be like (set Arelius (+ 1 Arelius)) 06:45:44 hml: sorry, man; imperatives need an exclamation 06:45:54 best reference I could find: http://www.naughtydog.com/corporate/press/GDC%202008/AdventuresInDataCompilation.pdf 06:45:55 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/2dzhzj 06:47:04 hml: I'm sure there's an (inc!) macro floating around 06:58:22 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless260.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:59:19 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 07:00:30 foof: damn, that was fast :) 07:05:49 foof, the representation by your parser is 'different' from htmlprag's 07:06:12 the tree only output's (*TOP*) and that's it.. .while htmlprag will output the entire tree... 07:06:40 CaptainMorgan: For what input? 07:06:49 CaptainMorgan pasted "Let's output xml(testcase)." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71680 07:07:11 offby1, please try that code... 07:07:15 CaptainMorgan: you should look into sxpath 07:07:21 see code :) 07:07:39 CaptainMorgan: I need to see cc.html, not the Scheme code. 07:07:51 captainmorgan.ss:7:9: require: PLaneT could not find the requested package: Server had no matching package: No package matched the specified criteria in: (planet neil/htmlprag:1:4/htmlprag) 07:07:55 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 07:07:56 foof, circuitcity.com 07:08:09 And my parser is at least 90% compatible with htmlprag, judging by the htmlprag tests. 07:08:13 offby1, it's small code - that is well commented.. please read it 07:08:28 Oh. I have to think and read?! 07:08:30 Geez 07:08:32 heh 07:09:46 CaptainMorgan: It generates the full parse tree for me 07:10:07 where do I get SXPath.scm from? 07:10:10 foof, which code, the code that I just posted or your parser? 07:10:19 doh offby1 ... one sec 07:10:19 bombshel2er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 07:10:21 My parser 07:10:30 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 07:10:45 http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/xml.html#SXPath 07:10:54 any reason you're not using the planet package? 07:11:39 my DrScheme tcp connection is blocked for some reason... I was testing the packages on a different system which worked fine, so for time, I just downloaded them locally 07:13:57 ok, I ran the code; it seemed to work ok (it printed out the html that I fed it) 07:14:06 foof, how would match every href in that tree using sxpath? in the code I just posted I pasted some examples that don't seem to work 07:14:08 I don't understand the final comment about trouble with sxpath 07:14:20 CaptainMorgan: But it's not 100% identical to htmlprag. One difference is I don't always concatenate strings, in the interest of efficiency. 07:14:34 you need to provide code that demonstrates the problem you're seeing -- comments aren't clear enough 07:14:38 offby1, using that code that is fed, attempt to match every href... I took those from the example that the developer of sxpath provided 07:14:47 ideally you'd use schemeunit to write some failing tests 07:14:54 Also, in some corner cases my parser is more faithful to the browser than htmlprag. 07:15:15 then you could simply ask "why does the test on line 123 fail?" 07:15:17 CaptainMorgan: I'm not very familiar with SXPATH. 07:15:32 as it is, I (who am half-asleep) cannot figure out what it is that you're seeing that you don't like. 07:15:48 I probably could if I were willing to put a lot of effort into it, but ... bummer ... I'm not :-| 07:16:15 I appreciate the help nevertheless offby1 , thank you. Get some sleep :) 07:16:16 If you can find a simple test case where my parser and htmlprag produce different results, and can convince me that the htmlprag result is better, I can look into changing it. 07:18:25 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-122-191.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [] 07:18:45 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-122-191.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 07:44:10 -!- bombshel2er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:47:24 a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has joined #scheme 07:55:59 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["leaving"] 08:00:38 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 08:01:32 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 08:05:29 foof offby1 , I sincerely thank you for your help... I think I just solved my problem.. that which has lasted a few days. Cheers! 08:08:25 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p6108-ipbfp205kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:09:40 olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 08:09:53 bombshel2er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 08:15:41 *CaptainMorgan* hit paydirt. 08:15:56 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 08:20:00 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p6108-ipbfp205kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:24:11 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p6108-ipbfp205kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:24:54 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 08:31:51 -!- bombshel2er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:32:55 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 08:47:24 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 08:47:55 -!- Debolaz [n=debolaz@nat.andersberle.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:54:01 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as sjamaan 14:45:56 -!- olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:45:56 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:45:56 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:45:56 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.143.65] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:45:56 -!- pjdelport [n=pjd@dsl-243-31-29.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:45:56 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-10-118.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:47:02 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.143.65] has joined #scheme 14:47:02 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-10-118.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 14:47:02 olgen [n=jacobm@0x535f66c5.bynxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #scheme 14:47:02 synthasee [n=synthase@c-68-63-76-191.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:47:02 pjdelport [n=pjd@dsl-243-31-29.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:47:02 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 14:48:33 -!- xz [n=ramana@c-98-228-42-177.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:51:04 Does anyone have suggestions for plotting the output of a procedure in Scheme48? Piping is an option. 15:03:01 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE8D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:14:52 rdd` [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 15:17:06 -!- higepon337 [n=taro@FLH1Ahv145.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:20:45 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053C54.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:21:10 -!- rdd` [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:23:04 rdd` [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 15:23:20 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:23:40 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 15:30:04 ttmrichter_ [n=ttmricht@221.235.59.60] has joined #scheme 15:30:04 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 15:31:25 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:37:32 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 15:37:42 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.143.65] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:38:43 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-128-94.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:39:09 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:51:38 xz [n=ramana@c-98-228-42-177.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:56:23 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:00:22 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-128-94.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:03:10 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:08:29 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:09:56 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:14:36 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [] 16:17:32 edw`: GNU plot? 16:17:37 -!- mmc [n=michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:17:54 mmc [n=michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 16:37:14 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:38:06 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:38:12 edw`: use aquaterm with gnuplot for live graphical output on OS X 16:40:16 edw`: i, three, have used gnuplot with great success 16:41:21 [i also produced printed gnuplot output via aquaterm, which is nice because you get to use the quartz renderer] 16:47:58 *offby1* dimly recalls a recent PLaneT package that drives GNUplot. That's PLT-specific, but who knows, maybe it could be ported