00:06:21 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:08:54 synx: the fluent code is more complicated than writting down php code. 00:11:52 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:12:23 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 00:15:09 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless140.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:16:04 AtomicToad [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 00:17:07 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:17:42 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:17:46 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:18:35 -!- AtomicToad is now known as JohnnyL 00:18:38 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:22:17 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:28:26 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 00:33:27 saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 00:38:11 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 00:43:16 -!- arthurmaciel [n=user@189.107.138.190] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:45:13 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:46:24 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 00:47:15 -!- Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:47:38 a1len_ [n=James@pool-98-112-86-91.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:47:49 -!- a1len [n=James@unaffiliated/a1len] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:47:59 -!- a1len_ is now known as a1len 00:49:14 gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:49:27 Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:53:58 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:56:18 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:58:59 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-127-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:16:54 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 01:24:25 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 01:41:00 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054308.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:47:27 mbtrimpe [n=mtrimpe@d107110.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 01:47:57 -!- mtrimpe [n=mtrimpe@d107110.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:48:05 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 01:50:49 -!- mbtrimpe [n=mtrimpe@d107110.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:51:06 mtrimpe [n=mtrimpe@d107110.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 01:53:00 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:56:20 -!- kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43C88.access.telenet.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:56:39 -!- langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:02:02 ad7 [n=nuloa@24.231.50.90] has joined #scheme 02:10:00 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 02:11:43 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:16:49 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:17:51 In the plt FFI, how do you deal with opaque types? Like you call x_new to create type x* which is equivalent to a void pointer pretty much, then x_thingy on x* to do things with it. 02:18:15 (define _data (_ptr io _...)) 02:27:13 -!- sam__ [n=Sami__@hoasnet-fe1add00-113.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 02:31:44 -!- mtrimpe [n=mtrimpe@d107110.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Success] 02:32:33 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@ZQ062141.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:33:37 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:46:50 -!- bpt [i=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:50:47 google didn't return favorable results... keywords: scheme difference .scm vs .ss, minus one or two in different attempts... much like there isn't much of a difference between .cpp and .cc , I didn't there would be a diff between .scm and .ss, but my basic text editor doesn't understand .ss - it highlights only on .scm... is there any difference to speak of between the two? 02:50:54 spongeworthy_us [n=cts5678@user-0c93sp6.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 02:51:47 bpt [i=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:52:45 `.ss' is fashionable in the PLT-speaking world. `.scm' is fashionable nearly everywhere else. 02:53:12 There are also some young upstart fashions developing in the Ikarus world with even less reason to diverge, such as `.sls' and `.sps' or something. 02:53:50 -!- gnomon_ is now known as gnomon 02:53:55 -!- spongeworthy_us [n=cts5678@user-0c93sp6.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:58:31 -!- aquanaut [n=user@pool-71-191-49-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:01:41 Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 03:10:48 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 03:14:15 -!- ad7 [n=nuloa@24.231.50.90] has left #scheme 03:18:32 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [] 03:35:28 yeah, other than fashion, it's irrelevant 03:37:13 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:41:07 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 03:45:11 -!- nicholasw [n=nw@ckc-109-118.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [] 03:46:50 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:47:04 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 03:47:37 Should a general output format abstraction be a monad or a constraint propagation network? Discuss. 03:49:06 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:49:31 which one of them is a pony 03:51:43 I always wondered about PLT w.r.t. .ss: is .ss some sort of bizarre Teutonic reference? 03:51:57 A Teutonic pun, as it were? 03:52:10 No. It just stands for "Scheme source". 03:52:12 I am leaning toward a constraint propagator. Permanent effects in a monad are less useful than backward information flow. 03:52:31 (A monad, of course, is much easier to implement.) 03:52:52 (This is code-point-by-code-point text output, by the way.) 03:52:53 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:53:05 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 03:57:26 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A064B.versanet.de] has left #scheme 03:58:34 benny [n=benny@i577A0D49.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 03:58:41 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:58:54 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 04:01:16 -!- cpfr [n=cf@dynamic-134-098.usc.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:03:05 elmex_ [n=elmex@e180064063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:04:39 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:04:52 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 04:10:25 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:10:41 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 04:16:20 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:16:33 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 04:17:33 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180065085.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:17:37 -!- elmex_ is now known as elmex 04:22:05 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:22:19 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 04:22:20 underspecified [n=eric@clair16.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 04:23:19 r2q2 [n=user@c-71-228-37-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:25:47 cpfr [n=cf@cpe-76-171-165-212.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:27:58 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:28:14 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 04:30:14 la la la 04:33:10 from #android: lalala 04:33:45 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:33:58 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 04:35:36 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:39:29 klutometis: it's rather a chez reference. 04:39:38 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:39:51 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 04:43:06 eli: Is there a website for plt scheme success stories? 04:43:21 *offby1* is a walking PLT success story 04:43:33 Before I used PLT scheme, I was a middle-aged, overweight, balding, nerd. 04:43:36 But look at me now! 04:43:40 Not that I know about... 04:43:59 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 04:44:00 There are a good number of companies that use it though. 04:44:55 hey offby1, do you have an android phone? 04:45:15 duncanm: I do indeed. 04:45:22 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:45:39 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 04:45:49 offby1: ahh... i keep flip-flopping on what to do with it, i already have a blackberry curve (on T-Mobile) 04:46:17 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0833030477/ref=cm_rdp_product seems like a good holiday present. 04:46:21 duncanm: it's probably not that much nicer than a Blackberry -- although I've never actually -seen- a blackberry, so what do I know. 04:47:01 r2q2: for someone you hate, yes. 04:47:09 offby1: have you tried the setup to tether the phone to your laptop? 04:47:25 duncanm: given that I don't know what "tether" means in this context, I guess the answer must be "no". 04:47:34 What does that mean? 04:47:45 offby1: i think you can hook it up to a laptop (via a usb cable) and go online with it 04:47:59 you can go online with it _without_ hooking it up to a laptop. 04:48:09 Or do you mean that you can let the _laptop_ go on line via the phone? 04:48:13 offby1: i know, but you can use it as a sort of modem for your laptop 04:48:21 ah, I'd been wondering if that were possible. 04:48:22 eli: that's a relief 04:48:29 duncanm: No, I've not tried it, but would very much like to. 04:48:56 offby1: http://gizmodo.com/5076233/how-to-tether-the-g1-for-3g-laptop-browsing 04:50:03 just read it 04:50:21 duncanm: BTW, I did get this going with the blackberry -- and the connection is even good enough to vnc through. 04:50:29 eli: wow 04:50:32 eli: over usb? 04:50:37 Yes. 04:50:54 eli: nice, do you have a link to some instructions? 04:51:16 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:51:28 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 04:51:42 duncanm: hold on, let me see if I can find the page. 04:52:45 duncanm: http://www.blackberryforums.com/blackberry-guides/2019-user-howto-use-blackberry-modem-laptop.html 04:52:46 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/h5w2j 04:53:09 toda raba 04:53:25 It's mostly clear enough to follow. The only thing that was semi tricky to figure is the username/password. 04:53:33 You're on tmobile too, right? 04:53:36 yes 04:53:50 So I just used my phone number and password, and it worked. 04:54:20 eli: did you have to install the modem driver? 04:54:46 hmm, this is for windows, what about linux? 04:54:58 I had the usual bb desktop thing installed, which included it -- I didn't download anything to get it working. 04:55:06 I don't know about linux... 04:55:08 oh 04:57:03 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:57:05 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:57:18 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 04:58:25 duncanm: http://wiki.colar.net/tethering_with_blackberry_pearl_on_linux looks reasonable. 05:02:49 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 05:03:03 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 05:08:41 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read 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07:05:30 Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-84-110-165-146.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 07:08:53 incubot: awk is the only program i've seen to meaningfully use the ascii file-separator (034) 07:08:54 Error: unbound variable: awk 07:09:31 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:09:43 incubot: awk is the only program i've seen to meaningfully use the ascii file-separator 07:09:45 All of those characters are used meaningfully in Lisp systems. 07:09:53 sehr nice 07:10:22 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 07:13:59 mbishop_ [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 07:16:27 -!- setf [i=54a648d5@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7b310d8274518a4d] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 07:23:16 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:27:02 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:28:25 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 07:29:16 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-11-21.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 07:30:18 -!- Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-84-110-165-146.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [] 07:33:51 nareshov1 [n=nareshov@203.200.95.130] has joined #scheme 07:35:03 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:35:30 -!- nareshov [n=nareshov@unaffiliated/nareshov] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:37:03 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 07:42:07 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:45:50 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-21-69.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:50:34 incubot: i find it depressing that, as the space budget gets cut from billions to millions, names get ever more christian: "spirit", "opportunity" 07:50:36 billions even 07:50:39 indeed 07:55:31 -!- underspecified [n=eric@clair16.naist.jp] has quit [] 07:57:26 -!- Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit ["bbl"] 07:58:30 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@chld.ru] has joined #scheme 08:00:50 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #scheme 08:03:47 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 08:07:17 underspecified [n=eric@clair16.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 08:11:03 phao [n=phao@20158132013.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #scheme 08:12:18 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 08:15:40 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:16:30 anyone ever screw around with lua, by the way? 08:16:50 it's actually pretty charming: multiple return values, closures, tail calls, etc. 08:17:50 -!- bpt [i=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:23:09 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:35:17 klutometis: lua is nice, yes. 08:36:14 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 08:36:29 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:43:38 -!- Kerris4 [n=Kerris4@87-194-3-170.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:44:07 Kerris4 [n=Kerris4@87-194-3-170.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:54:56 johnnowak: i might actually prefer lua over guile as an embedded scripting language 08:55:04 i do 08:55:12 any particular reason? 08:55:28 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A06DA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 08:55:29 "not guile" would be the first one 08:55:41 heh 08:55:53 heh, generally just nicer to worth with in an embedded context 08:55:55 *work 08:56:10 and nicer for the sorts of things i find myself wanting to do in those situations 08:56:33 also less likely to scare off users, frankly 08:56:37 aye 09:07:10 -!- alaricsp 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15:53:08 he is shy :P 15:53:29 wow 15:53:56 ttmrichter_ [n=ttmricht@59.172.141.32] has joined #scheme 15:54:03 I've read higepon on hatena 15:54:04 it's the guy from mosh-scheme, but he is probably asleep by now :p 15:54:07 I think 15:57:30 -!- z-axis [n=sergk@93.190.179.182] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:59:40 z-axis [n=sergk@93.190.179.182] has joined #scheme 16:02:15 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 16:04:43 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 16:06:46 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:08:26 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@219.140.250.142] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:11:07 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 16:11:29 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 16:13:52 OverNord [n=OverNord@dyndsl-091-096-102-127.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #scheme 16:16:42 langmartin 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GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:32:23 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:32:33 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 20:36:08 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:38:45 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-3-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 20:45:03 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-4-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:48:25 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [] 20:49:38 BW^- [i=Miranda@94.191.161.84.bredband.tre.se] has joined #scheme 20:49:48 what's the URL of that video of the Common Lisp music library? 20:52:01 Dark-Star [n=michael@dslnet.85-22-29.ip190.dokom.de] has joined #scheme 20:52:25 what advantages would I have using scheme over lua for scripting? 20:54:27 JohnnyL, scheme sucks and isn't a real language in comparison 20:54:35 JohnnyL, about twenty extra years of research and development, a plethora of implementations well-tuned to particular niches, clean syntactic extensibility, the wide ecosystem of native code compilers available for Scheme, and the fine folks in this channel ready and willing to offer help. 20:55:26 JohnnyL, actually misread you.. ignore what I said 20:55:32 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:56:09 JohnnyL: Depends on what you're scripting and who the scripters are, I'd say 20:56:31 If you're scripting a game and scripters are people in the modding community, Lua might be a better choice 20:56:51 If you're scripting some in-house application and you have schemers sitting around there, then Scheme is obviously a better choice 20:57:28 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:59:10 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 21:02:21 sjamaan yah, a game. 21:06:28 there's one excellent (IMHO) example of a game scripted in scheme, "haxima" (actually the whole underlying engine is scriptable in scheme, to create oldschool ultima-like RPG games) 21:07:11 I think Abuse was also relatively popular as one of the first open-source games 21:07:20 It used some Lisp, not sure what kind of Lisp 21:07:53 yeah they made up their own dialect as they went 21:08:33 Was it a lisp-1? 21:08:51 -!- drewr is now known as drewr-away 21:09:56 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:10:54 can't remember 21:11:00 (probably) 21:12:54 jso [n=user@67.130.170.131] has joined #scheme 21:17:20 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 21:17:48 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:19:35 JohnnyL: you must also take into account things like the garbage collector 21:20:22 JohnnyL: You must choose a scheme with a good incremental ou generational GC 21:20:30 s/ou/or/ 21:22:40 aaco_ [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has joined #scheme 21:24:54 -!- peter_12_ [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:26:12 ventonegro ah ok 21:28:05 Dark-Star neat stuff. 21:28:11 lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.239] has joined #scheme 21:28:17 sjamaan it was a homegrown lisp. 21:28:34 ventonegro, yeah i'm opting out of gc. 21:28:57 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:29:02 -!- aaco_ is now known as aaco 21:29:46 -!- mbishop_ is now known as mbishop 21:30:34 it would be really cool to do everything in a linear lisp 21:30:44 you'd be a big hit with the PL theory freaks 21:31:12 JohnnyL (that means no need for GC) 21:32:42 -!- phao [n=phao@20158132013.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:33:23 -!- BW^- [i=Miranda@94.191.161.84.bredband.tre.se] has left #scheme 21:34:28 -!- npe [i=npe@c-76-24-193-5.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:34:55 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A1234.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:34:58 vincenz i think the abuse lisp had context references and when they went out of scope they where recycled for l8r usage. 21:35:14 theres no sense in bloat for a game scripting language. 21:35:33 plus gc tends to hiccup on fps related games. 21:36:00 games from the late 90's early 00's used to hiccup all the time (malloc I presume). 21:37:27 JohnnyL: that's why Lua's changed its GC to an incremental one 21:39:37 ventonegro makes sense to me. 21:40:52 Am I right in saying that Scheme macros are exactly like lisp ones? 21:41:05 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-139-18.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:41:32 JohnnyL: no, they're different 21:41:36 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 21:41:57 JohnnyL: although most Scheme systems provide un-hygienic macros as well 21:42:10 oh 21:43:34 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 21:46:16 jso` [n=user@67.130.170.131] has joined #scheme 21:46:36 -!- jso [n=user@67.130.170.131] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:48:47 -!- jso` [n=user@67.130.170.131] has quit [Client Quit] 21:49:23 kuribas [i=kristof@d54C2AE24.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 21:49:31 phao [n=phao@20158132013.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #scheme 21:50:35 hey is the or function in Scheme exclusive 21:50:54 Starsie, the or function? 21:51:06 no, it's not exclusive 21:51:12 oh 21:51:12 r5rs or 21:51:13 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_120 21:51:14 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5pmuzt 21:51:25 you can't be talking about that can you? 21:51:30 ...and it's not a function 21:51:35 oh oops 21:51:54 vixey I was, thank you D: 21:56:19 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 21:59:18 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-74-85-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 22:04:42 hmm 22:04:50 i wonder what should this evaluate to: 22:04:55 (begin (define begin 30) (begin begin)) 22:04:59 30 or error? 22:08:27 Error: attempt to call a non-procedure 22:09:24 yea, but is returning 30 also valid? 22:12:04 elmex: i believe rebinding begin as such is valid in r5rs, and hence you'll always get the error 22:12:43 it would be a bizarre scheme that gave you 30 22:14:50 hmmm 22:14:56 johnnowak: like chicken? 22:14:58 :) 22:15:12 ... yes. 22:15:17 :) 22:15:47 plt errors due to applying a number, gambit complains about begin being used as a variable name, and csi gives you 30. 22:15:55 see how great having a formal semantics is? 22:16:07 :) 22:16:35 i guess, the toplevel env should be fully alterable then 22:17:21 according to r5rs, i believe so 22:17:28 i wonder what 'if' should be bound to in the initial environment :) 22:18:00 if, begin etc. are not bound to anything 22:18:01 (lambda () (system "/usr/bin/rogue")) 22:18:05 they are not varaibles 22:18:09 hmm 22:19:01 variables, even 22:19:21 Isn't "if" bound to a syntax rule? Or are syntax rules stored elsewhere? 22:19:36 yea, thats what i'm wondering about 22:19:52 but thats a 'syntax binding' 22:19:57 and not a 'variable binding' 22:20:16 yes, but it's a binding in the same environment, right? 22:20:23 that would expand to what? 22:21:24 it would expand to some internal scheme-magic that would apply the syntax rule to the arguments... 22:21:36 see R5RS 22:21:49 if, set! etc. are defined as 'syntax' 22:22:02 cond, case etc. as 'library syntax' 22:22:24 even in Scheme some things must be irreducible :-) 22:23:01 i'm for first class syntaxes! 22:23:09 ;-> 22:23:10 :-) 22:23:13 gtg 22:23:13 :) 22:23:18 programming is not class warfare 22:23:37 I'm leaving too. 'night 22:23:43 *johnnowak* isn't leaving 22:23:44 -!- ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has quit ["going home"] 22:23:48 -!- Dark-Star [n=michael@dslnet.85-22-29.ip190.dokom.de] has quit [] 22:23:54 oh, yes i am! 22:23:58 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 22:25:20 r5rs 5.3 22:25:21 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for 5.3. 22:25:25 grr. lousy index 22:25:37 http://schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-8.html#%_sec_5.3 22:25:38 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5mvlcw 22:26:49 elmex: "it is an error for a definition or syntax definition to shadow a syntactic keyword whose meaning is needed to determine whether some form in the group of forms that contains the shadowing definition is in fact a definition" 22:27:04 elmex: (begin (define begin list)) is explicitly called out as an example of an error by this rule 22:27:40 hmm 22:27:47 so, nasal demons 22:29:20 so a define on any syntactic keyword should yield an error - hmm 22:30:32 -!- setf [i=54a64cd1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ce9e830ba4ad4943] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 22:30:58 -!- drewr-away [n=drew@adsl-065-013-142-013.sip.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:31:02 what should (define car 30) do? and (set! car 30) ? 22:31:18 they are primitive procedures, so IMO define should shadow them 22:31:39 elmex: I'm not sure that statement holds in the broadest sense (I can't see how it applies to IF, for example), and "it is an error" does not mean "yield an error". 22:32:25 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 22:32:42 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:33:17 Those statements have the same meaning (since CAR is already bound), and they both set the value of the variable CAR to 30. 22:33:38 crazy, plt-r5rs thinks else :) 22:33:42 define-values: cannot change constant identifier: car 22:35:53 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:36:12 Evidently PLT is trying to be helpful instead of implementing R5RS Scheme. 22:36:58 Does plt-r5rs also forbid mutation of conses? 22:38:10 -!- lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.239] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 22:38:12 ``Altering any top-level binding that has not been introduced by a definition has an unspecified effect on the behavior of the built-in procedures.'' 22:38:15 http://schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_chap_6 22:39:00 You can toggle the mutability in plt-r5rs, see the language options 22:45:54 arcfide_ [n=arcfide@h-64-105-84-61.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #scheme 22:46:07 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@h-64-105-84-61.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:46:18 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:46:21 Er, right. Though I don't think immediately signaling an error is within the leeway that is given... 22:46:34 -!- arcfide_ is now known as arcfide 22:47:02 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 22:47:21 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057CF6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:49:47 incubot: (begin (define begin 30) (begin begin)) 22:49:47 30 23:01:32 arcfide_ [n=arcfide@h-69-3-100-112.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #scheme 23:02:23 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@h-64-105-84-61.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:02:48 bpt [i=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:06:05 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-73-185.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 23:10:44 -!- arcfide_ is now known as arcfide 23:10:47 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 23:22:22 cky [n=cky@203-211-87-20.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #scheme 23:26:28 npe [i=npe@c-76-24-193-5.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:27:00 -!- raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:29:07 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 23:33:37 -!- phao [n=phao@20158132013.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:39:29 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:41:54 -!- kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:46:54 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 23:47:17 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 23:47:19 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:50:32 -!- Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:53:33 -!- npe [i=npe@c-76-24-193-5.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:54:35 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["There exists an infinite set!"] 23:57:13 incubot: i was thinking about worshipping on the altar of tryptophan tomorrow 23:57:15 just for the record, turkey doesn't have all that much tryptophan, and not all of it is absorbed and turned itno seratonin anyway :P 23:57:47 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:58:12 i did not know that 23:59:38 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.98.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:59:52 -!- kuribas [i=kristof@d54C2AE24.access.telenet.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"]