00:01:58 aix [n=who@unaffiliated/toymachine] has joined #scheme 00:02:13 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-202-242.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:03:35 bpt__ [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:03:42 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 00:05:36 Hello everyone. 00:05:49 arcfide thank you for starting the meeting. 00:06:03 You must be all wondering why I have gathered you here this evening. 00:06:16 *Daemmerung* came to bury Caesar, not to praise him 00:06:37 Today's agenda is the discussion of the discussion of the future discussions that the proposed Steering Committee replacements will be having. 00:06:39 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:08:11 -!- cky [n=cky@203-211-93-118.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:09:03 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:13:01 there an online resource for making games in scheme? 00:13:35 JohnnyL: Such as? 00:13:50 JohnnyL: I wasn't aware of any reference that teaches you how to make games in any general language. 00:14:12 There are references on implementation wrappers of OpenGL, which is used to make games. 00:14:40 There is documentation on integrating Schemes into other game engines, so you can drive your game using Scheme. 00:15:13 There are some sample games in PLT Scheme, and maybe some others. 00:15:23 Hi there, i'm very new to scheme (just started today) I'm trying to write a function that contains some if statments 00:15:46 aix: keep trying 00:15:52 aix: you'll get it! 00:15:58 aix: what are you learning from, out of curiosity? 00:16:09 well i found this.. 00:16:17 http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/languages/scheme/tutorial-dsitaram/t-y-scheme-Z-H-3.html#%_sec_2.2.1 00:16:18 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/6jycr2 00:16:41 but it doesn't quite go as in depth as I'd like 00:16:46 aix: if that's all you're going to give us, I'll first point out that you've said function and statement, which leads me to believe that you are coming from another programming language, which also leads me to suspect that you may have imperative style issues. 00:17:01 aix: However, this is guesswork. 00:17:01 arcfide, correct 00:17:11 aix: Might you be able to post some code for us to see? 00:17:14 lisppaste: url 00:17:15 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 00:17:16 sure 00:17:20 let me give you a paste bin 00:17:22 See above. 00:17:29 ah teach yourself scheme in fixnum days is a pretty good text though :) 00:17:46 johnyl - i am working on a game in scheme :) 00:17:49 merlincorey: I have never read it, but it appears that some people like it. 00:17:54 we could exchange notes 00:18:04 this is a program i attempt to write in any new language, basically gets me to use the basics 00:18:41 http://pastebin.com/d4964f60b 00:18:44 Oh, and JohnnyL, you might also want to specify the type of game you want to make. Is this a graphical game, and online game, an RPG, a platformer, a MUD, an ASCII dungeon crawler a la nethack? 00:19:07 allnmymind [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279403734.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 00:19:08 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 00:19:13 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska176142.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 00:19:13 what I'm trying to do here is use my evaluate function, take a string and a list of integers 00:19:15 Ooohhh, wow. 00:19:28 What do you want to do? 00:19:32 if its "evaluate plus 1 2 3" 00:19:38 it adds 1 + 2 + 3 00:19:48 aix: but (+ 1 2 3) does that as well 00:19:50 :P 00:19:53 should be a very simple function 00:19:56 merlincorey: i know :) 00:20:00 aix: it is, it's called "apply" 00:20:00 Okay.... 00:20:02 hahaha. 00:20:07 (apply + (list 1 2 3)) 00:20:10 aix: How many other Scheme programs have you written? 00:20:13 arcfide: you'l see i use apply 00:20:15 arcfide: none! 00:20:27 aix: This is a rather nasty one to start with. 00:20:45 well i've already done hello world! :) 00:20:52 I recommend you go for something easier as your first procedure. 00:20:58 Maybe something like factorial or whatnot. 00:21:05 But if you want, let's start from the top. 00:21:10 yes, like calcuating interest or something (a la HtDP) 00:21:25 ah 00:21:27 s/calcua/calcula/ 00:21:31 Firstly, you need to receive data as a list. 00:21:37 ok 00:21:53 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-125-149.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:22:01 Right now, you have a procedure that takes two arguments. 00:22:08 correct 00:22:15 From what you say up there, you want as many arguments as you use. 00:22:22 i want arg to be a string, and data to be a list of integers 00:22:23 (evaluate "plus" 1 2 3 4) 00:22:30 yep! 00:22:31 or (evaluate "plus" 1 2) 00:22:43 So, you procedure needs to take a variable number of arguments. 00:22:54 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless164.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:23:16 ok 00:23:58 In Scheme, if you have a given formals list, like (arg data), this takes only two arguments. However, if you use the dot notation, you can specify an arbitrary number of arguments. (something something else . rest) will take at least three arguments, but all the rest of the arguments will be wrapped up in a list and bound to REST. 00:24:10 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:24:49 ahh, so you can't pass a literal list to the data argument? 00:24:58 So, (lambda (a b . c) ...) will evaluate to a procedure taking two or more arguments, where c will be a list of the 3rd, 4th, &c. arguments if there are any, or the empty list if there are only two. 00:25:13 Axioplase [n=Pied@79.248.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 00:25:15 interesting! 00:25:16 aix: You can, but then you call looks like: (evaluate "string" '(1 2 3)). 00:25:31 That is different than what you said up there. 00:25:31 i see.. 00:25:52 Here you are applying EVALUATE to two arguments, one of which is a string, and the other of which is a literal list. 00:25:53 ok what you are describing is exactly what i'd like 00:26:02 That's the first two lines. 00:26:04 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 00:26:05 We're not done yet. :-) 00:26:38 okie dokie 00:26:42 The procedure = is defined in most Schemes with which I am remotely familiar to take only numbers. 00:26:59 You have passed it strings. 00:27:01 arcfide: You've picked up a nasty "&c." virus from Riastradh. 00:27:14 chandler: I think I may have been the one who gave it to him. 00:27:23 If not, then the two of us developed it independently. 00:27:31 ok, i figured that much, in perl i'd use if "string1" eq "string2" rather than = 00:27:38 I actually gained that habit from Isaac Watt's and his book: Logic. 00:27:51 aix: So, there is another procedure that is defined for handling strings. 00:27:57 specbot: r5rs string=? 00:27:57 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_502 00:27:59 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5kr8lz 00:28:10 aix: Play with that procedure. 00:28:24 ahh 00:28:27 Now, in addition to this, you have a little bit of a misunderstanding of how Scheme procedures are applied and used. 00:28:29 string=? string1 string2 00:28:51 arcfide: you can say that again ;) 00:28:53 In Scheme, all programs are just a set of nested s-expressions. 00:29:01 Give or take. 00:29:25 Your implementation goes through and evaluates these expressions using certain rules. 00:29:50 The specific rule that is interesting here is the one for normal procedure calls, which includes STRING=? and APPLY. 00:30:16 ok 00:30:25 To specify the application of a procedure to some arguments, normally, we use the s-expression: (proc arg1 arg2 ...). 00:30:50 Every scheme procedure "call" is done this way. 00:31:23 So, all of your APPLY calls are not actually calls at all, but erroneous and extraneous arguments to the IF special form. 00:31:34 -!- sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-248-18.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 00:31:37 Well, maybe not extraneous. 00:31:38 arcfide yeah i was looking to see how to make an engine like the one used for Baldur's Gate. but if they have it already then yay! :) 00:31:39 k.. 00:31:41 Erroneous, at least. 00:31:57 arcfide: IE i don't need to do it that way :) 00:32:06 aix: You can't do it that way. 00:32:32 the IF form looks like (IF TEST EXPR EXPR2) where TEST and EXPR* are expressions. 00:32:44 ok 00:33:00 If TEST evaluates to #f, then EXPR2 is evaluated and its resulting value is the value of the evaluation of the IF form. 00:33:17 Otherwise, EXPR is evaluated and its resulting value is the value of the IF form. 00:33:19 #f and #t are schemes boolean values correct 00:33:24 Yes. 00:33:38 ok 00:33:56 So, right now, you have APPLY in the EXPR spot. 00:33:57 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 00:34:09 yuck i see 00:34:24 Errors notwithstanding, if somehow (= arg "minus") => #t, then, you would just be returning the procedure APPLY. 00:34:47 ok it wouldn't output the values 00:34:59 it would simply return the "function" 00:35:01 Also, you proceed to do useless evaluations because you go down the entire list of IFs and test each one. 00:35:30 So, in actuality, it would only return the procedure APPLY if (= arg "divide"). 00:35:44 aahh 00:35:53 is there an elsif 00:36:01 aix: I just showed it to you. 00:36:04 k 00:36:07 (IF TEST EXPR EXPR2). 00:36:28 One expression is evaluated if TEST => #f, otherwise, the other expression is evaluated. 00:36:29 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@202.176.4.21] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:36:42 ok 00:36:51 In this case, until you know COND, you will have to nest IF forms inside one another. 00:36:51 so i don't need another if in EXPR2 00:37:02 aix: In this case, you do. 00:37:10 err right gotcha 00:37:23 Now, more than this, the procedure APPLY takes two arguments. 00:37:42 a procedure as its first argument, and a list of arguments to which we may apply the passed procedure. 00:37:43 arcfide: are you going to be around, I'd like to play with the information you've given me for a bit 00:37:51 to see if I can figure this out 00:37:55 specbot: r5rs apply 00:37:56 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_556 00:37:57 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/2kjgxd 00:38:00 specbot: r5rs if 00:38:00 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_98 00:38:01 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/4xlwxg 00:38:14 aix: Well, I'm going to eat now. 00:38:15 cool schemers.org i like the pun 00:38:27 -!- allnmymind [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279403734.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:38:31 aix: also, you don't use +, - or / correctly. 00:38:33 allnmymind [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279403734.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 00:38:39 ok arcfide thank you very much for you're help 00:38:49 i'll idle till i see you're back 00:38:52 aix: Like I said, you might want to select something a little easier. :-) 00:38:55 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 00:38:58 arcfide: haha ok 00:38:59 Play around, plenty here will help you. 00:39:12 ok thank you very much, you've pointed me in the direction I need to be headed :) 00:39:37 *crying, looking at some java code doing basic xml handling* 00:41:14 schme [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 00:48:30 -!- kuribas [i=kristof@d54C2ADC1.access.telenet.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:50:53 is there at least a bitmap plane available to scheme so I can make a tile scroller? (am i right in saying opengl may be good for this) 00:53:09 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@243.Red-79-156-144.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:57:33 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:01:30 JohnnyL: talk to synx and Daemmerung, who seem to be the local graphic gurus 01:01:59 JohnnyL: This isn't really an issue of whether Scheme (language) provides this so much as whether the implementation you are using provides this. What implementation are you using? 01:02:31 JohnnyL: MIT Scheme and PLT Scheme, at least, provide drawing planes, but you would likely be better off with something like OpenGL anyways. 01:02:52 arcfide i have yet to use Scheme. 01:02:59 aix: it's not a pun, IIRC the Sussman originally wanted to call it schemer 01:04:00 JohnnyL: Then you'll need to pick an implementation before you can know whether it provides built-in libraries for doing this. Otherwise, there are some other libraries around, and writing your own wrappers for OpenGL for your particular implementation from someone else's wrappers for another implementation is not terribly difficult in theory. 01:04:25 johnnyL: there's opengl in Gambit at least. 01:04:38 daemmerung knows about it. 01:04:40 merlincorey: was wondering about that myself; never considered it a pun 01:04:42 check chicken homepage too 01:05:00 needs to be 3D? 01:05:05 would Cairo do? 01:05:52 synx: do you do graphics things? 01:05:58 BW^- ok 01:06:00 thanks guys. 01:06:24 but there should be opengl in many schemes, no ? 01:06:39 it's pretty easy to implement, i suppose, and pretty useful for the people who know how to use it, huh? 01:06:40 -!- allnmymind [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279403734.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:09:23 drdo````` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 01:10:02 BW^-: Terribly useful, but sometimes there just isn't anyone interested. 01:10:07 Just about any Scheme with a decent FFI should be able to use OpenGL. Via GLUT if no other way. 01:10:08 hehe 01:10:23 daemmerung: there's an FFI for gambit right? 01:10:25 I've seen opengl bindings for plt, gauche, scm, gambit, and chicken. 01:10:29 -!- drdo````` is now known as drdo 01:10:31 on the "dumping grounds", that you can find on the gambit homepage 01:11:02 arcfide,daemmerung: is it useful for anything more than displaying 3D on local screen? 01:11:05 If you just want a side-scroller, the native plane in plt or mit-scheme would do. 01:11:16 BW^-: It is useful for custom UIs. 01:11:17 BW^-: I don't follow you. 01:11:44 BW^-: It's also useful for doing other graphics related things, but I mean, some of that will likely be 3D, so... 01:12:07 Gambit certainly does have a FFI. I would imagine that you ahve more practice w/ it than I. 01:12:44 After tomorrow morning I plan to forget everything I ever learned about graphics.... 01:12:58 daemmerung: ah, no, i meant, there's a OpenGL library for gambit, that's available on Gambit's homepage. 01:13:00 how come? 01:13:14 b/c my pixel-pushing gig will be at an end. 01:13:42 I'm not particularly good at it. It's just something I needed to do. 01:16:31 AtomicToad [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 01:16:35 woohoo, got it working 01:16:44 -!- AtomicToad [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 01:16:49 that was fairly simple 01:17:35 which? 01:18:29 johnnyl: is there any requirement that you have in addition to have opengl? 01:22:40 BW^- well, at the moment i'm looking for z machine for inform7, I think i'm going to lay out the whole thing in text firt. 01:22:42 first 01:23:07 k 01:24:32 sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-248-18.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:24:51 -!- bpt__ [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:26:54 i'm dealing with a set data-structure, and have the unfortunate nominations SET-SET-TAIL!, SET-SET-HEAD!, etc.; is that acceptable, or does good scheme style dictate a periphrasis? 01:27:21 you mean that it needs to be -set! + 01:27:21 ? 01:27:41 my understanding is that a mutating procedure not needs to be named -set! . the convention is that there should be a ! on it only. 01:27:47 such as close!, terminate! etc. 01:28:13 it actually mutates the set-head, set-tail, etc. 01:28:43 but SET-SET-* looks weird 01:30:34 -!- Axioplase [n=Pied@79.248.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["leaving"] 01:32:05 it's correct, however; even if pleonastic 01:32:40 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit ["The incensed priests...continued to raise their voices, vituperating each other in bad Latin"] 01:39:12 -!- cky_ is now known as cky 01:44:14 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:48:10 what database engines have been written IN scheme? 01:48:22 just whatever, key/value or hierarchical or object or anything 01:48:25 anything interesting? 01:49:58 besides srfi-69? ;) 01:50:26 oh, i meant disk-stored or networked 01:50:33 why not just use sqlite3 bindings? 01:50:41 well, i just wondered 01:52:26 it should be alot easier to write sophisticated database solutions in scheme than c/c++ 01:53:52 here you go: http://people.csail.mit.edu/jaffer/slib_6.html#SEC151 01:54:42 by the way, why would you opt for "database solutions" instead of "databases"? 01:54:51 what does the extra three syllables buy you? 01:56:17 *JohnnyL* prepares his databanks. lol 01:57:01 BW^-: I do graphics things. 01:57:24 still cannot get transparancy to load from a file into an opengl texture. :( 01:58:19 cool! like what? 01:59:08 klutometis: i thought, a database is one particular set of data, a database solution or database engine would be a mechanism that handles data. 01:59:21 though i see that's a suboptimal distinction 01:59:50 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:01:15 klutometis: what's appropriate terminology here? 02:04:23 BW^-: not sure; but did you see the SLIB relational db written in scheme? 02:04:40 yep 02:04:44 thanks 02:04:51 tried it`? 02:07:33 cky_ [n=cky@203-211-89-214.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #scheme 02:08:13 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:08:38 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-70c914c22bb09a27] has joined #scheme 02:10:39 BW^-: not i; sqlite3 always did the trick when i needed something more sophisticated than srfi-69 02:10:50 i.e. persistent 02:11:06 mm. i use it too. 02:12:06 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-223.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 02:13:30 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [] 02:17:51 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 02:20:56 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 02:21:02 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-145-135.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:21:19 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 02:24:15 annodomini_ [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 02:24:15 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:25:52 -!- cky [n=cky@202-74-211-194.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Success] 02:27:22 -!- cky_ is now known as cky 02:30:22 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 02:30:22 -!- annodomini_ [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:31:22 annodomini_ [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 02:31:23 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:32:29 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:34:27 -!- annodomini_ [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:35:51 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 02:35:55 -!- luz [n=davids@201.29.235.134] has quit ["Client exiting"] 02:36:53 npe [i=npe@66.112.249.18] has joined #scheme 02:37:05 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:38:29 AshyIsMe [n=User@b415.adsl.ecomtel.com.au] has joined #scheme 02:39:03 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 02:41:44 *Phew!* 02:42:18 I finally finished that porting and phasing and libraries thread on CLS. 02:42:20 :-) 02:43:24 ? 02:43:25 what? 02:44:01 BW^-: Basically, all I could ever want to hear in a discussion among implementers and users regarding much the same thing we talked about here a short time ago. 02:44:16 Quite fun, actually, and educational to some degree. 02:44:22 what? 02:44:23 CLS? 02:44:30 comp.lang.scheme 02:44:34 Usenet. 02:44:50 k 02:44:50 Newsgroups on a Newsserver running over NNTP. 02:44:57 m 02:46:14 what did you do? 02:46:20 What do you mean? 02:46:28 what was fun and educatioal? 02:46:36 I wish I had a news server. 02:46:56 Oh, just hearing everyone who has probably more experience than I do talk about the various topics. Even got long discussions from some implementors and proficient users. 02:47:09 synx: Does your ISP not provide you with one? 02:47:21 synx: If not, there are plenty of free servers. 02:47:25 news.google.com ? 02:48:21 BW^-: Wrong, no, bad, bad! 02:48:35 *arcfide* spritzes BW^- with a water bottle. 02:48:39 why? 02:48:42 Down BW^-, back! 02:48:50 but i love it! 02:49:06 news.google.com is a terrible interface for reading the news, and is supposedly a bad source of spam. 02:49:20 why? 02:49:22 It also hurts to read news using that interface. 02:49:23 arcfide: yeah, but I don't want to tax those servers. I'm really suspicious of NNTP as a viable method of distributing information, since it's still people reliant on large central servers. 02:49:31 Plus most servers don't have the esoteric groups. 02:49:44 synx: most will have CLS I would expect. 02:49:52 They only need the groups their users actually want, though there's no way for the users to communicate that desire. 02:50:09 synx: esoteric? 02:50:11 arcfide: Well, sure that they'd have. <3 I can talk with you all here though! 02:50:14 synx: btw what graphics things? 02:50:29 synx: Sure there is, at least for me. I just email my News Service, and they let me know when they have added the group. 02:51:14 BW^-: I was trying to get some images I had to load as OpenGL textures. Everything worked great eventually, except transparancy, which continues to be an unsolvable nightmare. 02:51:19 So I got tired of it, and gave up. 02:51:33 aha ok 02:51:36 strange with transparency 02:52:18 arcfide: email can totally be forged. :p Plus they'd have no way to distinguish between new group requests and other emails. 02:52:59 synx: Sure they would, I use a mail system that allows me to verify my identity to them well enough. 02:53:21 BW^-: You call get-argb-pixels twice, once to apply the alpha over the mask, and at that point I just got stumped. Converting it to rgba seemed to use blue as alpha and invert the other colors, or something. Lemme pull up what I got so far... 02:54:01 arcfide: Every news server would have to design that system though, pretty much from the ground up. You'd have to hope that they had their email filtering the right way. 02:54:11 synx: oh, you don't need to, i was just generally curious 02:54:34 synx: For what, adding groups? You just ask your local news server to add them, everyone else does the same. 02:54:42 BW^-: Why are you asking about graphics? 02:54:48 synx: I am not sure what you are objecting to. 02:55:04 there was a conversation here on it and arcfide said you and daemmerung were the local gurus : 02:55:05 :) 02:55:18 synx: I don't think that NNTP is that much different than email. 02:55:34 Yes well, like I said my local (hah) news server would have to make up some sort of email filtering system to identify requests for new groups from the spam. And it'd be different for every news server. 02:55:54 The NNTP is different in that its widespread deployment may dry up soon. 02:56:06 (its widespread deployment in Usenet, that is) 02:56:41 At least, if no ceiling cats watch Andrew Cuomo watch kittens masturbate, or something. 02:57:04 Anyway, even if they do have the groups it's still a problem finding reliable free servers. Especially for binary groups. 02:57:29 It takes a lot more bandwidth to share pictures than to share obscure debates over archaic language features. 02:57:44 synx: well, sure. 02:57:45 :-) 02:58:07 Riastradh: I could maybe see that. 02:58:27 I'd really rather just have my own little news server, and synchronize with others. They don't take kindly to that kind of stuff though. 02:58:42 -!- aix [n=who@unaffiliated/toymachine] has quit ["leaving"] 02:59:12 synx: You can do that, if IIRC. 02:59:23 synx: And I don't think people would hate you for it. 02:59:23 I don't think I've ever managed to configure a news server in a bandwidth friendly way. It's like "Who has accepted you into their inner cabal? Ok. As for everyone else, I won't connect to them." 02:59:25 All it takes is an ATM machine and a PIN number! 02:59:35 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:59:36 granted it's been years since I tried 02:59:54 I'd like a news server that only downloads message headers heh. 03:00:00 Heh. 03:00:19 Even those could be forged... 03:00:57 What's with the forging? 03:01:21 Are you trying to guarantee the security of every single message entering your local servers? 03:01:48 No it's just... 03:01:51 You set it up to get an alt.* group, and suddenly that gives everyone in the world the ability to flood your computer with endless unstoppable messages. 03:02:07 It's like publishing your fax number, and you can never get the machine to stop, asides shutting it off for everyone. 03:02:31 And you're wasting your bandwidth, and the bandwidth of your server, without any way to tell or even guess at what's legitimate or not. 03:02:31 synx: This is what happens with email, too. 03:03:19 I take it spamassassin (or similar) couldn't be coopted as a news filter. 03:03:23 synx: You do filtering, just like with email. 03:03:36 klutometis: it is and can be done. 03:03:37 email doesn't get separated into groups though. You subscribe to a sender maybe, not a channel. 03:03:42 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 03:03:45 arcfide: interesting 03:04:00 And if I did filtering, I'd have already downloaded the messages. 03:04:01 klutometis: of course, each server gets to decide how it implements filtering. 03:04:21 synx: I take it you don't run your own email server either. 03:04:29 I can block that stuff after it hits my computer just fine. But it still wastes bandwidth, and makes finding free servers very difficult. 03:04:39 I do run my own email server. 03:05:14 But the mailing lists I'm on only allow registered users to post to them. It's different for NNTP groups. 03:05:46 synx: so you're saying that you can't handle a high-volume mail server anymore than you can handle a high-volume server for NNTP? 03:06:08 synx: I am also pretty sure you could do header only stuff. 03:06:18 I don't have a high volume mail server, because my mailing lists, unlike NNTP groups, aren't getting flooded with spam. 03:06:36 I've read some things about people that are specifically interested in only downloading the headers and filtering on those as a prepass to downloading the messages. 03:06:36 yeah, looking at suspicious headers or what 03:06:52 arcfide, one practical difference is that the email spam comes from random sources, whereas the NNTP spam would come from the news server with which synx's server would be synchronizing. 03:06:57 I haven't really looked into it for a while. 03:07:10 Riastradh: Making IP Black-lists harder? 03:07:22 arcfide, that or greylisting, or other spam tarpit techniques. 03:07:34 You can still match with the NNTP path header, but that can be sort of forged too... 03:07:50 Another practical difference is that there exist mailing lists composed primarily of sensible persons. 03:07:59 *arcfide* chuckles. 03:08:09 Well, I'm not claiming that running a server is easy. 03:08:13 I don't run one. 03:08:20 email spam mostly just taxes the regular Internet routers for me, but yeah an NNTP server would have to use its bandwidth entirely for all the spam I'm getting. 03:08:48 that could be a limiting factor even. Still kind of denies the service though... 03:09:12 synx: Yeah, well, I would probably just use someone else's server then. 03:09:43 if I could yeah, but it seems rude... 03:09:55 synx: Heh...donate $5. 03:09:59 Or something. 03:10:07 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:10:14 not likely to find free news servers, until they get tragedy of the commons'd to oblivion. 03:10:16 I would find better ways to occupy my time. 03:10:23 No, the subjunctive was inappropriate there. 03:10:37 which brings me to the operative point that instead of playing around on Usenet I need to get a job 03:10:48 truebosko [n=bartek@69-196-135-166.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 03:10:57 (On the other hand, I am currently talking on IRC about the NNTP...) 03:11:08 until they get... before they get crapflooded? 03:11:18 Yeah s/until/before/ 03:11:31 I think we'll just have to admit that we're all Schemers here, who do very useful stuff that is mostly useless to the rest of the world. :-P 03:11:50 heh yeah 03:12:08 Although, I find the time I spend on Usenet to be quite useful. 03:12:10 To me. 03:12:30 A nice thing about IRC is it doesn't cache messages. Since it's low latency, even crapfloods have little chance of disrupting meaningful dialog. A news server could get spilled over before you synchronized with it that week. 03:12:37 Yes, it keeps you calibrated so that you know just how depraved the intelligence of humanity can get. 03:12:59 Riastradh: I just avoid or kill those discussions. :-) 03:13:13 If I want to see depraved morons I'll go to an image board kthx 03:13:22 Riastradh: Actually, I rarely read discussions where I find the topic mostly dead or degenerate. 03:13:27 Hey here's an idea. Signed news groups. 03:13:30 (and how deprived of intelligence humanity can get) 03:13:54 There's a secret key, shared among members, and only messages signed with that key are propogated. 03:14:06 Boom, there you have NNTP with support for registering for a group. 03:14:17 `propagated' 03:14:38 down/uploaded c.c 03:14:41 sent from server to server to client 03:14:55 I know, but you wrote `propogated'. 03:15:11 oops! 03:15:15 that I did 03:15:29 I was totolly wrong 03:15:36 Speaking of jobs, it's a tragedy that Jane St. Capital stopped advertising to Schemers; or, at least, they refer you to general HR now. 03:15:59 never heard of them 03:16:06 To do with the meltdown, I assume. 03:16:21 synx: try googling for r5rs, and look at the sponsored links. 03:16:32 Oh, rich boys. <3 03:16:48 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #scheme 03:18:28 So imagine you wanted to put on a play. But there is no script. There are no props. The only props that exist are duct tape and chicken wire. 03:18:56 That sounds good enough to me to make anything from an electron microscope to a 747. 03:18:58 synx: waiting for godot 03:19:34 And the normal thing to do is purchase a video tape from another production company, who uses secret props and scripts shared with no one. You display the video on a projector, and claim that you have just performed a play. 03:19:52 That's what playing a closed source video game feels like to me. 03:20:04 synx: no, you're doing plato's argument from the cave again. 03:20:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave 03:20:46 Oh I...guess so. I was more thinking the person who ran the camera, not the people watching the movie. 03:21:28 annodomini_ [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:21:50 you interact with a game, cause it to happen. It's not just passive observance. But it definitely comes close, since they protect their financial interests by giving the player very little freedom. 03:22:48 What about UT-type products with mods: does that count as quasi-active? 03:23:24 well that's the thing, with mods all that restriction goes out the window. 03:23:25 synx: the cheating issues already more or less pushes the game industry toward closed-source binaries 03:23:49 They're circumventing the game's restrictions, breaking open its bits, and forcing it to be freer. It's still an uphill battle. 03:24:07 some of the math formulas in the SICP book need cleaning up .. ;) http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/ch1-Z-G-3.gif 03:24:18 impossible to read (yes i know you guys dont control that, just funny) 03:24:19 Adamant: A game with a poorly designed player-to-player protocol will be a game that gets cheated on, closed source or open. 03:24:23 synx: even open source game solutions to the cheating problem more or less involve uploading a proprietary closed-source binary as part of the larger open source game 03:24:31 truebosko: probably won't happen; just buy it 03:24:51 synx: there is no way to realistically completely prevent cheating in the current situation 03:25:01 Adamant: Not really... what open source game does that? 03:25:09 synx: nettrek IIRC 03:25:44 Good luck cheating when you're on a MUD. :> 03:25:54 There's speedhax, that's about it. 03:26:00 yeah, not let's run COD4 on a MUD 03:26:04 *now 03:26:20 COD4? 03:26:25 Call OF Duty 4 03:26:36 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has quit [] 03:26:46 that's not a MUD... 03:26:52 no crap 03:27:16 I'm saying, can you play it on a trusted server with minimal client on your end? 03:27:22 answers point to no 03:27:30 Is it open source? 03:27:40 it wouldn't matter if it was or wasn't 03:27:54 you can't do it by the architecture of what is demanded 03:28:25 Only difference really is the pretty 3D graphics. 03:28:30 yes 03:28:40 I'm sure it's not transmitting mesh data across the network line. 03:28:47 which is pretty much a basic precondition 03:29:10 and pretty much has to be rendered on the client end 03:29:12 Second Life does that...but it sucks. Hard to hack though! 03:29:23 and the graphic suck 03:29:25 s 03:29:26 Right. 03:29:28 Where'd Scheme go? 03:29:47 I'm talking about a video game in scheme <_< 03:30:53 Riastradh: speaking of which, what are the semantics of `/' in function naming, such as: HASH-TABLE-REF, HASH-TABLE-REF/DEFAULT. Does it express an equivalent procedure with an alternate parameter list? 03:31:39 Just that it's important to the player for things to be open-source, otherwise they're more of a watcher than a participant. 03:31:54 give a man a fish, teach a man to fish 03:32:03 klutometis, read the slash as the word `with'. 03:32:42 synx: there used to be real-time mutable MUDs, IIRC. 03:32:45 synx, I have a wonderful game that I play all the time; it's very participatory, and it is even useful in many pursuits. 03:32:47 Riastradh: ah; excellent mnemonic. 03:33:10 Its graphics aren't so spectacular, but its non-graphical capabilities transcend any video game you can name. 03:33:16 This game is called `Emacs'. 03:33:50 Emacs is a musical game, of course, replete with chords. 03:34:29 klutometis: I have been a fan of the MUCK variant for a while, very real time mutable that. And your speedhax are all useless nyahaha 03:34:51 Riastradh: What are you on, and how can I get some 03:36:34 I'm on procrastination. 03:38:00 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:42:50 bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 04:00:56 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180066015.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:01:35 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@207-180-186-165.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:02:04 elmex [n=elmex@e180068075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:04:42 Does anyone have a good prefix for constants in Scheme? 04:05:00 Like, $constant or something. 04:05:45 A prefix of nothing works for me! 04:06:12 Well, the names would conflict with normal procedures, unless I put some longish prefix on them. 04:06:22 So I was hoping there was some short character I could use. 04:06:37 How do you define something as constant? 04:06:41 * 04:06:43 Use a different name. 04:06:43 *potato* 04:06:57 (Generally asterisks are used to denote mutable globals.) 04:06:58 I use *name* for module level variables... 04:07:10 or maybe that wouldn't need to be a .. right¨ 04:07:52 Eh, *BLAH* is definitely not the right one. 04:08:16 What are you having difficulty naming? 04:08:58 If you have a function and a constant both with the same name, that sounds like it needs rethinking in general... 04:09:32 synx: Well, in the documentation for this, the bytecodes are listed as say: GET_BATTERY. 04:09:43 But, the procedure is also named get_battery(). 04:10:00 saccade_ [n=saccade@207-180-186-165.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:10:00 I was hoping to map the constants to their documentation names relatively closely. 04:10:14 I could say GET-BATTERY-CODE or something. 04:10:16 code/get-battery 04:10:21 (get-battery ...) 04:10:30 Oh, so there are functions that use a byte-code to get their value. 04:11:23 Just make a separate module only having the constants in it. You might even be able to auto-generate it. 04:17:58 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has quit [] 04:20:37 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 04:25:13 I have a weighted graph whose constructor takes adjacencies and a weight function; if the adjacencies could be list- or hash-table-based, would you have: MAKE-{HASH-TABLE,LIST}-ADJACENCIES or MAKE-ADJACENCIES/{HASH-TABLE,LIST}, etc.? 04:28:39 I recommend a1 a2 a3... 04:31:04 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:37:17 indeed; or maybe i'll abstract from the graph rather than the adjacencies: MAKE-GRAPH/HASH-TABLE, etc. 04:38:32 speaking of which: why is everyone wont to capitalize their procedures when talking about them (not using them); is it a faux-monospace, or something? 04:39:59 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:40:05 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 04:42:39 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 04:46:59 Lemonator [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 04:53:34 What the?! 04:53:45 The what!? 04:53:53 -!- npe [i=npe@66.112.249.18] has quit [] 04:54:10 Why does ja.wikipedia.org have a request for donations at the top of every page? 04:54:46 I think only you do that klutometis 04:55:09 but in all seriousness I'd say it's an attempt to mark a change in language between normal English and code. 04:55:29 I try to use parentheses for that, but since they have special meaning in English sometimes the point is lost. 04:56:06 example: When I use the statement (yield) it has (unforseen) consequences. 04:56:58 *offby1* (swoons) 04:56:59 Ultimately it takes you to: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en 04:57:11 -!- annodomini_ is now known as annodomini 04:57:28 bweaver [n=bweaver@67.161.236.94] has joined #scheme 04:58:13 benny` [n=benny@i577A0203.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 04:59:06 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["strawberries"] 04:59:15 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@207-180-186-165.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:00:54 *foof* just woke up - how's the election going? 05:01:14 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:01:42 *foof* googles and is very happy :) 05:02:04 McCain conceded 05:02:23 *synx* yawns 05:04:19 Dems also seem to have gained ground in the house and senate. 05:04:35 this is like the fall of the Berlin Wall, squared :-) 05:05:11 lol 05:05:24 it is not even close to that important 05:05:26 malune [n=malune@bb-87-81-97-91.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #scheme 05:05:40 hey guys, anyone here use plt scheme servlets before? 05:06:07 having a really noob problem and can't find any reference for it on the net 05:06:15 Adamant: after slavery, civil war, lynching era, racial theories, Holocaust? I think it is much more important. 05:07:10 raikov: Berlin Wall was the end of the Cold War. this is a black guy getting elected President after they've already been in every single other important post in the US government 05:07:26 so no, it's not that important. 05:08:27 at least if you think the fact he's black is the imprtant bit 05:09:22 *foof* had actually forgotten about that 05:09:36 -!- pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:09:37 Adamant: but the Cold War was a byproduct of World War II, which was the result of a megalomaniac inspired by Jim Crow laws. I think the election of a black man and the son of an African immigrant to the highest elective office in the US has quite the symbolic significance. 05:09:52 pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 05:09:58 raikov: I think you are on crack 05:09:58 And it helps that he is bright, qualified progressive politicican :-) 05:10:13 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176192182.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:10:22 yes, didn't you hear? The Obama campaign was buying votes with crack cocaine 05:10:31 Hitler was also inspired by Lincoln 05:10:37 nope 05:10:42 uh yeah 05:10:46 do you want a quote? 05:10:55 with a source, please 05:11:09 dose Mein Kamp count? 05:11:12 gimme a minute 05:11:16 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 05:11:21 Do you mean Mein Kampf? 05:11:47 raikov: it's not polite to attack typos 05:12:23 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 05:13:28 But this is the Internet, I can't let typos pass! ;-) even if I make typos myself 05:13:48 raikov: why all the melanolatry, man: isn't Obama a man just like any other? 05:14:02 This is #scheme. Theoretically we talk about Scheme here. 05:14:19 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0FFC.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:14:27 My apologies for bringing up the US election. It was foof's fault :-) 05:15:38 *foof* blames Nader 05:18:00 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176199038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:18:48 raikov: I'll show you the source in PM 05:19:13 ok, I'll show you mine 05:20:19 does anyone here have experience with servlets and plt scheme? i can't seem to get my pages including any kind of file. 05:20:35 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:20:43 Adamant, raikov: don't forget to play "swordfights" thereafter ;) 05:20:48 be it img, css etc, something is wrong with some path, but everything i change seems to not help. :< 05:21:18 malune: is there a particular reason you chose servlets and plt as a web platform? 05:21:41 klutometis: is there a particular reason that i shouldn't ? 05:22:10 malune: not per se, but I find using fastcgi and scheme to be quick and trouble-free 05:22:24 fastcgi has wide support, too 05:22:40 (i.e. you're not necessarily tied to plt) 05:22:41 klutometis: i like continuation passing style 05:22:49 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:23:07 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 05:24:04 klutometis: i like the way plt web apps are built, i just have one path problem which is very annoying 05:24:29 -!- BW^- [i=Miranda@79.138.198.18.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:24:51 klutometis: also the generated html from x-expressions is very badly formatted, but I can live with that 05:27:08 saccade_ [n=saccade@207-180-186-165.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 05:27:10 malune: with fastcgi, you also have persistence across requests; but ask eli: he help you with plt servlets 05:27:19 can* 05:27:59 okay, thanks 05:28:39 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@207-180-186-165.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:29:14 -!- truebosko [n=bartek@69-196-135-166.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 05:30:25 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["sleep time is now GOOOOOOBAMA"] 05:31:47 this makes no sense at all. i just removed a pic and it still displays, how can i contact eli? 05:33:38 malune: there's the omnipotent PING-device 05:35:26 eli: ping 05:35:39 klutometis: lol :) 05:38:08 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 05:41:04 viocizgd [n=viocizgd@209.216.196.2] has joined #scheme 05:41:04 -!- viocizgd [n=viocizgd@209.216.196.2] has quit [K-lined] 05:41:36 malune: Yes? 05:42:22 klutometis: last time I looked, fastcgi was such a PITA, that it made much more sense to just run a web server and use something like mod_rewrite to channel it through apache. 05:42:52 eli: hey, i'm having some problems with servlets using plt scheme, in particular when I include any path in an x-expression, that css/img/srcfile cannot be found 05:42:58 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:43:03 ("PITA" in the sense that it required enough work that you could just as well implement a web server with roughly similar effort.) 05:43:11 eli: also, x-expression output to html is all in one line when i view source, is this normal? 05:43:19 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 05:44:12 eli: i managed to get an img displaying earlier, but when i removed it from all the root dirs and restarted the server, it could still be found, does the servlet cache stuff in a weird way? 05:44:29 malune: The x-expression output in one line is normal. I think that there's a switch somewhere to make the output display nicely indented but I don't think it preserves the page's semantics (with obscure rules about where spaces matter). 05:44:43 -!- sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-248-18.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:45:59 I also have some personal experience in that department -- I had my own html generator that displayed html in a way that kept the semantics the same but still indented it properly. It took me several years to give up making sense of doing so -- and the one-line approach is infinitely more convenient. 05:46:37 (My only excuse with the previous thing was that I was generating pages that could potentially be later edited by humans. This becomes exponentially more rare every year.) 05:47:27 eli: okay, this is a problem i can live with. 05:47:36 malune: As for your path -- what do you mean by "include any path in an x-expression"? 05:47:45 Is it just a string? 05:47:57 eli: for example (img ((src "img.jpg"))) 05:48:30 And the image file is in the same place that the resulting page is? 05:48:46 Actually, strike that -- which PLT version are you using? 05:49:02 eli: yes, the latest PLT version 4.1.2 05:49:27 Where is the image, and where is the servlet? 05:50:06 eli: I placed the image in default-web-root, htdocs and /servlets, the servlets start function and the serve are in the same file, the servlet path is /servlets/standalone.ss 05:50:27 eli: and i'm using start as the servlet to the serve function 05:51:01 So "img.jpg" shouldn't work -- it should be something like "../img.gpg", no? 05:51:40 eli: well i placed img.jpg in 3 separate dirs, so surely it should work under the /servlets dir no? 05:52:40 I don't think so -- IIRC, the contents of servlets is only for servlets, so if you put an image there it wouldn't work. 05:53:02 My guess is that something like "../img.jpg" or "/img.jpg" should work. 05:53:54 I don't have too much experience with the web server, but I can try it myself if you want to send me your files. 05:55:00 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:55:08 BTW, something very relevant here: the fixed separation between where your servlets are and where your files are is something that many people didn't like and it just happens that today Jay made it possible to have servlets anywhere you want, so problems like the one you're having are likely much easier to deal with. 05:55:17 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 05:55:39 (This is recent enough that it's not even included in the nightly build.) 05:56:00 oh right, i thought you could place your servlets anywhere 05:56:52 If you want to try the new thing I can package something up for you. 05:57:16 I can also trigger a nightly build -- but it takes about 2.5 hours for it to be ready. 05:57:52 well, i've just tried the two changes you suggested, but neither work 05:58:09 do you know how to check that the servlet has actually updated itself properly? 05:58:19 at the moment i'm running it from within plt scheme 05:58:28 (using Stop and Run) 05:58:35 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 05:58:46 Do you mean from inside drscheme? 05:58:51 yea 05:59:15 This means that every time you run it the server starts from scratch. 05:59:38 Can you zip/tar/whatever your code and send it to me? 06:00:00 i've just got it to work it seems, by using ./img.jpg src and putting the file in htdocs 06:00:35 This doesn't sound right. 06:01:05 yeah its definitely not right because i renamed all the files and it still works lol, i'll package the code 06:01:41 If you replace ((src "img.jpg")) by ((src "./img.jpg")) then the change will be part of the output html -- which means that your browser is going to interpret the result. 06:01:58 Did you try to flush the browser's cache? 06:02:21 no, how do i do that? 06:02:27 cpfr [n=cf@cpe-76-171-165-212.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 06:02:32 Depends on the browser. 06:02:36 btw is there a scheme pastebin? 06:02:42 because its actually really short code 06:02:44 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-170-199.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 06:03:00 lisppaste: url? 06:03:01 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 06:03:09 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:03:16 which scheme implementation besides scsh/scheme48 is very friendly toward systems programming 06:03:32 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 06:03:49 cpfr: depends on what you mean by "systems programming". 06:03:50 malune pasted "servlet borkage" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69736 06:04:27 eli, code that is going to be making lots of system calls and interacting heavily with other programs not written in scheme on my machine 06:05:01 cpfr: gambit-c ? 06:05:22 malune, ive found gambit can get flakey 06:05:39 though the last i used it was in its 4.20 days 06:06:17 cpfr: i've used gambit-c for some real time rendering stuff before and it worked fine for me 06:06:21 malune: Is this the only thing you have? 06:06:31 eli: yep, i'm just trying to get it to work 06:06:33 That is, no changes to the configuration? 06:06:51 eli: yeah, it was more complicated to start with, but i tried to make it as simple as possible 06:07:02 eli: to get something that works 06:07:14 cpfr: Well, I can recommend plt, but probably anyone here can tell you how biased I am... 06:08:11 i figured with the neu addy 06:08:16 cpfr: i've used PLT for real time multi threaded code before and it worked great. 06:08:17 cpfr: What I can say about it is that both system calls and dealing with subprocesses is usually very easy. 06:09:05 cpfr: "neu addy"? 06:09:16 north eastern university 06:09:24 eli: so any idea why this simple code doesn't work? 06:09:25 which has like 12 schemers on staff i think 06:10:04 cpfr: Well, yes -- it is pretty much the center of larceny and scsh, for some value of "center". 06:10:39 malune: I think that if that's all you use, then it serves stuff from its default directory. Let me try something one second. 06:11:06 eli: ok 06:11:55 malune: OK, so my guess is that you should put the image in the ...plt/collects/web-server/default-web-root/htdocs -- then you can refer to it as "../img.jpg". 06:12:00 wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:12:10 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-1-176.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 06:12:14 But it's probably better to make your own configuration file and put the files in your place. 06:12:14 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [] 06:12:45 eli: why can i refer to it like that? 06:13:03 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@67.161.236.94] has quit [] 06:13:11 eli: since the servlet is in /servlets/ 06:13:19 eli what would be a good set of srfis that plt supports for me to look into 06:13:33 i found the thread one 06:13:40 -!- wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #scheme 06:14:32 malune: Because the directory I named is the web server's root by default, which means that stuff that you put there can be referred to as "/blah". But since you're running a servlet, it's always served from "/servlets/something" -- so you need to go up a level. 06:15:01 malune: the "servlet" directory, btw, is not really a directory -- just how the web server presents it to your browser. 06:16:20 eli: okay, but the dir is default-web-root/htdocs and default-web-root/servlets/ so wouldn't the link be ../htdocs/img.jpg ?? 06:16:22 cpfr: I barely ever use srfis, plt is rich enough that I don't have any need for them. (And yes, that's biased: I don't care for having code that can be ported to other schemes.) 06:17:19 malune: No, "htdocs" is the actual directory where the files are -- but these files are served (from the web server) as the root -- so your browser doesn't even see an "htdocs" directory. 06:17:58 eli: oh riiiiight, it all makes sense now, thanks a lot 06:18:17 eli: i was getting confused between how the server serves the files and how they are actually stored 06:18:59 malune: BTW, that kind of confusion is not specific to plt, or to scheme, or to any web framework -- it's something that is relevant no matter what you use... 06:19:40 eli: yeah, true 06:20:10 eli: just my miscomprehension of the subject :D 06:20:42 (probably a common mistake...) 06:20:57 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit ["The incensed priests...continued to raise their voices, vituperating each other in bad Latin"] 06:22:59 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 06:24:09 eli: in a sense, that's true: in order to run fastcgi, i had to first create a generic framework 06:24:45 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 06:26:55 Aside: Can we please confine politics to ##politics or other similarly appropriate channels, which do not include #scheme? (Even Scheme politics are a bit distasteful for #scheme!) 06:27:34 klutometis: the only thing I remember is reading about it and not really seeing how it's easier than writing a web server. And since I had a web server (and still do, amazingly enough -- even though I wrote it around 10 years ago), finding mod_rewrite made everything much better. 06:28:24 bweaver [n=bweaver@67.161.236.94] has joined #scheme 06:28:57 Riastradh: how do you feel about the #math/#not-math binary system: would #scheme benefit similarly? 06:29:07 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-58-98.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:29:54 Riastradh is obviously still reading far back in the logs :) 06:32:07 sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-248-18.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:32:23 eli: apache (or lighttpd, etc.) does process management and allows the chaining of other mods, filters, etc.; writing a web-server, for instance, once would even have to worry about the mechanics of forking and privilege de-escalation (which can be non-trivial) 06:32:33 s/once/one/ 06:33:10 foof: indeed; i think we policed ourselves successfully, actually 06:35:04 klutometis: ok, that might make sense, I just never encountered any such needs. (But my use(s) of apache is pretty simplistic.) 06:37:29 -!- sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-248-18.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:38:26 sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-248-18.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:43:16 SI SE PUEDE! 06:46:07 la la la 06:46:08 quiet 06:47:24 -!- Kinks [n=Kinks@uc087.housing.umanitoba.ca] has left #scheme 06:50:24 klutometis, you could use #not-math. 06:52:00 hey Riastradh 06:52:27 Hi. 06:53:02 Riastradh: aye, but there's #not-scheme; the point being that schemers are more literate than mathematicians (save the intersection of schemers and mathematicians) and thus more fun to expostulate with. 06:53:19 *Riastradh* coughs. 06:53:22 heh 06:54:22 Anyway; #not-scheme is now reserved, in case in proves useful. 06:54:34 -!- reified [n=luminal@z248.61-115-64.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:54:38 OK. No skin off my back (whatever that's supposed to mean). 06:55:57 Hey everyone, join me in #not-not-scheme! 06:56:31 The real question is whether that's a discussion about scheme or #t? 06:56:32 foof: heh; you'll have to clarify the semantics of the poly-negative, though 06:56:36 Are you an intuitionistic mathematician, foof? 06:58:28 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:58:39 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@67.161.236.94] has quit [] 07:00:23 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit ["Coyote finally caught me"] 07:12:14 eli where do you typically go to find out what modules are available to you in plt 07:22:53 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:23:13 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 07:26:34 christ: my fingers are so cold, that refrigerated diet-crack feels room-temp; my outdoor scheme-stint may be over. 07:28:08 (if only christ hung out on #scheme: i could tab-complete the nick) 07:30:38 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 07:33:05 bpt__ [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:34:25 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 07:35:19 cpfr: Just go to the documentation searc page. 07:35:25 reified [n=luminal@z248.61-115-64.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 07:35:30 thanks 07:36:09 cpfr: It's also online at docs.plt-scheme.org/search 07:36:24 cool 07:38:11 dereine [n=dereine@217-20-118-50.internetserviceteam.com] has joined #scheme 07:39:29 eli, I was going to mention for that race condition on the copy-port thing, you could open the file with exclusive access couldn't you? 07:41:19 anyway, I gotta goto sleep 07:42:37 jonrafkind: huh? 07:42:52 You mean open the file, then grab the filesize? 07:45:03 I think he means use a filelock before querying size or whatever you wish to do somewhat atomicly 07:52:29 npe [n=npe@66.112.249.148] has joined #scheme 07:58:53 dgtljunglist [n=dgtljung@D-128-208-150-85.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #scheme 07:59:46 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 08:01:25 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-125-164.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 08:03:48 -!- npe [n=npe@66.112.249.148] has quit [] 08:10:01 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@b415.adsl.ecomtel.com.au] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:25:58 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:28:55 silibama [n=user@222.127.169.198] has joined #scheme 08:31:57 hi. I want to minimize dependencies for an app and want some kind scheme-based storage which has some kind of concurrency and transaction support. any suggestions? 08:34:11 database :) 08:34:22 -!- dgtljunglist [n=dgtljung@D-128-208-150-85.dhcp4.washington.edu] has left #scheme 08:35:04 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 08:40:04 silibama: hm, what do you mean "scheme-based storage"? 08:40:57 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:43:12 rmrfchik: written in scheme 08:43:48 why it should be written in scheme? 08:43:53 just curious 08:43:57 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 08:45:11 rmrfchik: more portability 08:45:24 orly? 08:45:29 hm 08:45:45 take postgresql, sqlite -- portability is perfect 08:46:33 sqlite would be okay-ish if a driver was written in scheme 08:47:04 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-223.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 08:47:25 silibama: Don't most Schemes have sqlite support? 08:47:32 r5rs doesn't allow to write efficient application 08:48:01 sjamaan: that would be news to me. I'll doublecheck 08:48:07 to write portable efficient sotrage, you have to bind yourselft to given scheme (plt, chicken, bigloo) 08:48:33 plt 08:48:36 once bound, you can find sqllite extension ;) 08:48:42 right 08:48:51 I would be surprised if plt didn't have sqlite 08:49:28 it has. 08:51:21 silibama: http://people.csail.mit.edu/jaffer/slib_6.html#SEC151 08:51:29 silibama: part of SLIB; written in scheme, etc. 08:51:53 though I vote +1 sqlite3 08:52:45 sqld-sqlite on planet 08:56:47 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:58:31 though it 08:58:50 though it's FFI which is what I want to avoid :( 08:59:31 I'll play with it 09:01:14 ok ok 09:02:33 timchen1` [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #scheme 09:15:46 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-202-242.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:17:16 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:17:40 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:20:37 schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-67a323e2b6ce4cfc] has joined #scheme 09:34:27 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 09:48:01 pchrist|1niv [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has joined #scheme 09:50:50 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:51:39 -!- pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:52:37 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 09:56:10 -!- pchrist|1niv [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Client Quit] 09:56:51 pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has joined #scheme 10:20:56 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 10:26:18 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-70c914c22bb09a27] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:35:08 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:42:34 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 10:52:16 -!- rmrfchik [n=paul@relay2.jet.msk.su] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:53:24 -!- silibama [n=user@222.127.169.198] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:59:17 rmrfchik [n=paul@62.117.74.154] has joined #scheme 11:07:38 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 11:15:23 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-202-0.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 11:16:11 iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179073121.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 11:23:02 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 11:23:13 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-066-244-149.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 11:23:42 -!- mike is now known as Guest5499 11:28:16 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:30:19 xwl [n=user@125.33.197.53] has joined #scheme 11:32:31 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 11:32:31 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:40:00 -!- reified [n=luminal@z248.61-115-64.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:44:40 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-200.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 11:50:37 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 11:55:26 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 11:58:03 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 12:30:31 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:30:52 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 12:30:59 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 12:58:42 lera_zed [n=vmasutin@212.98.186.105] has joined #scheme 12:59:19 ehm is there anyone who's using mit-scheme package on ubuntu ? 13:00:59 lera_zed: no, perhaps get a binary from mit-scheme site... 13:01:34 sladegen: ok, will do 13:02:24 -!- xwl [n=user@125.33.197.53] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:03:56 lera_zed: iirc it also should be possible to build it from source now without a need for mit-scheme binary to be present [on x86]. 13:05:01 sladegen: i've hit the issue with memory allocation, but it solved now, thanks 13:06:32 sladegen: really? that's interesting; you mean the source comes with a statically compiled binary? 13:11:51 athos [n=philipp@p54B87BE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:13:53 klutometis: nope, it compiles a x86 backend on the spot? i'm not that familiar with mit-scheme internals. 13:17:04 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #scheme 13:18:16 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has left #scheme 13:19:38 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:19:53 sladegen: hmm; maybe i'm doing it wrong, then: i've always had to have the binary there, even on x86 13:21:20 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-254-ndn-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:24:14 klutometis: yeah, perhaps i did not notice it use 'scheme' binary in my path and i forget i had it. 13:28:47 ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has joined #scheme 13:33:45 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@221.235.60.121] has joined #scheme 13:37:37 -!- lera_zed [n=vmasutin@212.98.186.105] has quit ["leaving"] 13:39:26 -!- ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:39:26 -!- iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179073121.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:39:26 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:39:26 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176192182.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:39:26 -!- aquanaut [n=user@pool-71-191-49-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:39:26 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:39:26 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:39:26 -!- mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:39:26 -!- xz [n=ramana@c-98-228-42-177.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:39:26 -!- michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:39:26 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:39:26 -!- Wardje [n=Ward@67.202.80.55] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:39:26 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:39:26 -!- certainty|work [n=david@212.77.226.243] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:40:10 ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has joined #scheme 13:40:10 iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179073121.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 13:40:10 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 13:40:10 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176192182.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 13:40:10 aquanaut [n=user@pool-71-191-49-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:40:10 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 13:40:10 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 13:40:10 mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has joined #scheme 13:40:10 certainty|work [n=david@212.77.226.243] has joined #scheme 13:40:10 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 13:40:10 xz [n=ramana@c-98-228-42-177.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:40:10 michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has joined #scheme 13:40:10 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 13:40:10 Wardje [n=Ward@67.202.80.55] has joined #scheme 13:40:52 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:44:54 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Client Quit] 13:49:01 athos_ [n=philipp@p54B86585.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:51:52 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-254-ndn-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:52:58 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-1-176.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:55:44 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-18-148.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 13:56:02 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 14:07:38 -!- athos [n=philipp@p54B87BE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:08:55 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 14:17:59 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #scheme 14:29:11 -!- schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-67a323e2b6ce4cfc] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 14:30:35 schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7c3a8c9e1daec95b] has joined #scheme 14:32:57 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:33:03 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 14:34:41 kib2 [n=chatzill@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 14:37:05 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 14:41:55 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 14:42:19 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 14:42:38 pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 14:42:49 -!- pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:46:39 i've got a question: does a closure need to close over the top-level environment? i mean, does it need a reference to it? 14:48:19 npe [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has joined #scheme 14:49:54 generally speaking, yes 14:50:16 otherwise, you cannot find free variables. 14:50:56 or must use some static info which is evil 14:51:01 hm, couldn't the top-level environment be implicit and just available through the dynamic environment? 14:51:20 implicit == static variable? 14:51:42 implicit in the sense that it is global 14:51:53 this is what I mean. 14:51:57 ah, ok 14:52:03 then yes: a static var 14:52:18 global == you cannot use two different top-level environment 14:52:26 it would probably not work correctly when the closure is executed in a call to eval with a different top-level env 14:52:38 and it add complexity when finding variable 14:53:03 just in the compilation step :) 14:53:11 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:53:39 it isn't enough just to traverse environment, it have to check top-level 14:54:01 anyway, error prone 14:54:14 hmm 14:54:16 writing compiler? 14:54:28 an interpreter with a preparation step 14:56:17 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 14:56:18 DSL? 14:56:18 DSL? 14:56:18 what do u mean? 14:57:05 domain specific language. 14:57:26 oh, no, a hopefully mostly r5rs compatible scheme interpreter 14:57:31 npe_ [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has joined #scheme 14:57:37 why anyone want to write scheme interpret/compiler -- often to implement domain language 14:57:47 elmex: why? 14:58:18 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 14:58:19 rmrfchik: mostly just for fun to learn how to implement an interpreter 14:58:37 really good reason 14:58:47 what host language? 14:58:51 C :-> 14:59:21 oh 14:59:45 I read LiSP and adopted the knowledge to write a not-that-slow interpreter 15:00:16 unfortunately i don't beat mzscheme by far, and not even guile 15:01:08 but as long as the code is clear and correct i don't care that much 15:02:22 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 15:03:17 maybe i'll write a Perl interface to my interpreter 15:04:36 -!- npe [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:05:20 why? 15:05:54 to be able to use the interpreter more directly from all the Perl code i wrote 15:06:43 npe [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has joined #scheme 15:13:54 -!- npe_ [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:14:31 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-62-0.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 15:14:58 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:15:07 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:15:57 npe_ [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has joined #scheme 15:17:28 why use perl anyway? ;) 15:17:34 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-18-148.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:17:41 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 15:18:02 rmrfchik: because I grew up with it :) 15:18:25 elmex: now you know scheme and can throw perl away ;) 15:20:21 rmrfchik: i can't, because i found no good event I/O lib for scheme, which beats AnyEvent, and also beacuse i have lots of modules in Perl which i don't want to rewrite :) 15:23:00 bweaver [n=bweaver@67.161.236.94] has joined #scheme 15:24:07 -!- npe [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:25:12 npe [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has joined #scheme 15:25:56 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 15:27:19 iion_tichy1 [n=Bjoern@e179068007.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 15:28:26 -!- iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179073121.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:29:25 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:33:07 -!- npe_ [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:34:50 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:38:37 -!- Lemonator [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:43:24 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-24-149.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 15:44:41 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-62-0.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:44:57 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 15:55:04 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-22-117.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 15:55:22 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 15:58:02 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-24-149.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:58:06 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 16:05:41 ventoneg` [n=user@136.166.1.3] has joined #scheme 16:06:07 -!- Kusanagi [n=Motoko@71-14-81-211.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:08:16 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@67.161.236.94] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:08:44 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:08:50 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:10:23 -!- ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:10:29 -!- ventoneg` is now known as ventonegro 16:10:39 elmex: plt threads seem like a pretty good event I/O, though a bit high on memory usage. As for the not rewriting part, heck I still use perl and I haven't *used* used it in 4 years. 16:13:25 If anybody heard a giant flushing sound this morning, that was almost two months of my work being cut from a project. Ouch. 16:13:56 replor_ [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:17:05 ouch Daemmerung. You had to backtrack that much? 16:18:25 synx: ;-) 16:18:41 Not a backtracking so much as a complete amputation. 16:18:59 C'est la guerre. 16:19:28 so _that's_ what that was 16:19:30 scared my cat 16:20:10 most I've ever had to backtrack is maybe... a week... not counting month long projects that I gave up on entirely. 16:21:11 There is still residual value in what I've done-- not to mention the pleasure of being able to roll fixes and improvements back into the Scheme I've been using. But it is certainly a disappointment. 16:23:47 -!- athos_ [n=philipp@p54B86585.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:24:25 which Scheme? 16:24:31 answer carefully, buddy 16:24:57 SUPAR BLAZEMONGER WINSCHEME 4.0 FOR WINNARS 16:25:04 aka PLT in the place to be 16:25:56 .oO("in the place to be"?) 16:26:12 I thot you were the "pocket scheme" guy ... or am I mixing you up with some other chick 16:26:26 (Too much old school hiphop in my yoof. Sorry.) 16:27:16 you must be twelve years old, if they had hiphop when you was a yoot. When I was a yoot, they had big bands and Hot New Orleans Jazz 16:27:44 I /was/ the pocket scheme guy... but my wince days are long past. pscheme is an ex-project. PUshing up the daisies. Run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. etc. 16:28:24 My yoof was somewhat delayed. But I listened to a lot of Whodini and Run-DMC in the day. 16:28:30 Daemmerung: Why did it die? 16:29:07 No can say. Still NDA bound I'm afraid. 16:29:30 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-125-164.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:31:39 -!- replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [No route to host] 16:32:43 -!- bpt__ is now known as bpt 16:34:06 Daemmerung: so you've ported PLT to the Android now, eh? Gimme. 16:35:14 offby1: Android's a javabox. Meesa no do Java. -- No, I'm out of the handheld space completely. 16:35:55 I'm vaguely tempted to do at least a _little_ Java in order to get something to run on Mr Droid. 16:35:58 Dunno what though. 16:36:08 I saw some scuttlebutt on the PLT list about the PLTistas making a version of drscheme that would emit jvm code, but they were more concerned about their "World" examples running there. 16:36:22 It's exactly the same lassitude as when I think: "what should I make for dinner tonight?" 16:36:50 I'm not really a cellphone guy. Part of why I got out of the handheld space. No cell service in Mazama.... 16:36:50 well, the Android doesn't run jvm code, oddly; it instead runs ... something else. 16:37:16 plus those phones are so small; there's barely room to turn around, let alone room to set down a pint 16:37:25 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:37:26 "Inside of a phone, it's too cramped to drink" 16:37:42 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:37:53 I need a phone the size of Maxwell Smart's shoe. 16:38:29 buy a normal phone, and a shoe; embed the former in the latter. Voilà! 16:38:33 Or if it's a mini phone, I need to be able to dial it w/o reading its screen. I could speak to it: "HELP ME IVE FALLEN AND I CANT GET UP" 16:38:42 The hard part will be finding a proper old school mechanical dial and wiring it up 16:38:58 Daemmerung: I think my Android has some kinda voice-dial thing. Never tried it though 16:39:22 I saw somebody had hacked a rotary dialer control for the iPhone. Always wanted to do that on WinMobo. Back when I did WM, I mean. 16:39:37 :) 16:39:46 by the way, next time you're in Seattle, consider visiting http://www.museumofcommunications.org/ 16:39:52 most awesomest museum evar 16:39:57 ... and I generally HATE museums 16:40:17 I'm in the Sodom by the Sound most of this week. And for some reason I have a lot of free time now! 16:40:44 that could be either good or bad. 16:40:48 where you at? 16:40:51 neighborhood-wise 16:41:06 Capitol Hill, close to the Lake View cemetery 16:41:09 oho 16:41:25 I have this dim recollection that there's someone famous buried there, but can't remember who 16:41:29 Bruce Lee. 16:41:32 and son. 16:41:33 ah 16:41:47 he had a son who died?! 16:41:48 damn 16:41:52 unlucky bugger 16:41:53 I used to jog in that cemetery. About once a week I'd end up playing ad hoc tour guide. 16:42:02 Brandon Lee. Also died young. 16:42:54 ...I see yon museum is only open Tuesdays. Maybe next time I'm here. 16:42:58 yeah 16:43:17 _really_ worth it, though, if you're at all interested in that sorta thing 16:43:29 I went there twice ... walked through with my jaw dropped the whole time 16:43:49 If I take my wife there she. will. kill. me. 16:44:02 "HOney, let's go to the museum!" 16:44:07 partly that's because every fourth exhibit was familiar to me, due to my father having stolen whatever it was from Western Union and thus I played with it while growing up 16:44:41 Daemmerung: my wife hasn't gone, but she showed a faint glimmer of interest, if only because she thought it'd be amusing to watch me wander around in a daze 16:44:47 Original telegraph parts? 16:44:50 sure 16:45:05 Didn;t your dad work on the transcontinental railroad? 16:45:08 you name it, they got four of 'em, in incredible shape, working, rigged up so you can play with it 16:45:09 Kusanagi [n=Motoko@71-14-81-211.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 16:45:37 Daemmerung: that was after he retired; when he was younger he was a scout with Davy Crocket, and then before that he was an adviser to General Washington 16:46:13 Lemonator [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 16:47:43 -!- Modius_ is now known as Modius 16:47:57 Back on the Android front -- PLT's sort of size-challenged, you know. And just getting worse that way. I don't see it running on a phone any time soon, not without a change in direction. 16:48:29 Or else another leap in phone capabilities. 16:49:50 guile should work on android ok 16:50:42 surely you didn't think I was serious, Shirley 16:51:26 proq: far's I know there's no C compiler that targets Android, and even if there were, there's no standard POSIX-y C library for it. Getting guile working in that environment would be ... a challenge 16:51:47 unless you want to generate actual native ARM code, which sounds like a pretty bad idea 16:51:48 oh, right I forgot android was wannabe java only 16:51:50 Of course not. But I've mulled before subsettinig a small env Scheme out of PLT. 16:52:07 I guess you're stuck with java schemes 16:52:13 I suppose you could just nix all the Android software, and treat the phone as an ordinary ARM-based computer, and stick your own Linux distro on it 16:52:31 haven't heard of anyone doing that (yet) but it might be possible 16:52:42 kinda pointless, imho 16:52:56 most of the value of the phone is in the existing software, which for better or worse is written in Jaca 16:52:58 java 16:53:01 -!- kib2 [n=chatzill@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 16:53:06 gigabytes [n=gigabyte@host68-233-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 16:53:06 Yeah. There is SISC-- might as well use that. It seems to have its fans. 16:54:01 someone will probably hack android to run native apps though 16:54:50 proq: that's what I meant. 16:55:18 Daemmerung: I assume that SISC depends on some sorta "standard Java library", and I further assume that that library isn't available on the Android 16:55:31 instead, I assume yet again, there's a special "Android" library. 16:55:45 I stopped playing with android when I found they had no CLI on the phone itself 16:55:51 Well, assuming they're roughly cognate, porting SISC should be a SMOP 16:56:28 *Daemmerung* is an architecture astronaut 16:57:07 BW^- [i=Miranda@79.138.128.99.bredband.tre.se] has joined #scheme 16:57:19 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 16:57:24 proq: I believe there's a "terminal" app you can get. (And I further hear that you can use it to start a telnet daemon, via which you can elevate yourself to root) 16:57:40 proq: http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/05/1436224 16:57:51 for some value of "S" 16:57:52 m01 16:57:58 oops 16:58:21 ooh, I bet that's his password! 16:58:32 haha 17:00:12 Wake me up when they port Scheme to the Western Electric 302 (in black Bakelite, natch). 17:00:27 I would settle for red, too. 17:00:32 bweaver [n=bweaver@mail.surya.com] has joined #scheme 17:01:02 now, there's a handset you can pound nails with. 17:01:38 If I can't use a phone to fend off hungry wolves, I'm not interested in it. 17:03:06 "Bantu Tribesman Uses IBM Global Uplink Network Modem to Crush Nut" 17:03:29 exexex [n=chatzill@85.96.122.206] has joined #scheme 17:05:46 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:06:52 -!- replor_ [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [No route to host] 17:07:30 besiria [n=user@ppp083212086143.dsl.uom.gr] has joined #scheme 17:09:49 Eleanore [n=a@c-b273e155.185-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 17:16:06 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:16:23 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:18:17 -!- BW^- [i=Miranda@79.138.128.99.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:21:37 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:22:03 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 17:23:21 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 17:23:41 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:25:03 -!- dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:30:25 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:33:48 -!- Lemonator [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:37:16 -!- schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7c3a8c9e1daec95b] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 17:42:34 Nichibutsu [n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has joined #scheme 17:45:14 -!- ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:45:28 ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has joined #scheme 17:45:44 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 17:47:03 melito_ [n=melito@c-24-16-193-208.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:49:35 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:49:39 Bah, I have completely forgotten how to get all output from a command into /dev/null. 17:51:26 Ah, there it is. 17:54:09 2>&1 >/dev/null, right? (/bin/sh) 17:55:52 Daemmerung: Basically. 17:56:56 But there's something about the order of the two. I think I have them reversed. 17:57:06 1>/dev/null 2>&1 18:02:17 Deformati [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:07:17 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:13:00 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless131.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 18:13:19 unix, the original perl 18:13:27 -!- gigabytes [n=gigabyte@host68-233-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 18:15:41 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:17:41 bweaver_ [n=bweaver@mail.surya.com] has joined #scheme 18:19:21 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 18:19:50 TNE-1567 [n=sae@ool-182ed1f1.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 18:20:19 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:25:48 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@mail.surya.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:25:54 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-251-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 18:26:20 -!- fdr- [n=fdr@76-191-209-5.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:29:05 -!- incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:35:13 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 18:40:23 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 cracki [n=cracki@47-124.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 18:43:15 -!- besiria [n=user@ppp083212086143.dsl.uom.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:50:26 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-254-ndn-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:53:27 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-254-ndn-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:56:40 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:00:44 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:06:51 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 19:10:27 GoNoGo [n=GoNoGo@cro34-3-82-236-93-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:11:52 mejja [n=user@c-6bbae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:14:51 -!- cracki [n=cracki@47-124.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 19:17:46 geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:18:45 how do I redirect display output to a variable? 19:19:40 geckosenator: call-with-output-string or with-output-to-string 19:19:48 I don't think those are portable, though 19:20:02 specbot: r5rs call-with-output-string 19:20:02 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for call-with-output-string. 19:20:02 right 19:23:43 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 19:24:18 Maybe "portable" is the wrong word; afaik most schemes have string ports 19:24:38 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:25:03 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:27:47 thanks 19:28:06 yw 19:28:43 wingo-tp [n=wingo@243.Red-79-156-144.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:30:50 ok, last one is I need to split the string into a list at newlines and spaces 19:31:16 specbot: srfi-1 string-tokenize 19:31:22 I could do string->list then iterate across it I guess.. 19:31:29 that's better :-P thanks 19:31:34 np 19:31:53 it's been a while since I did this type of scheme 19:31:59 I try to avoid strings 19:32:06 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:32:08 It's srfi-13, btw 19:32:14 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:32:14 specbot: srfi-13 string-tokenize 19:32:24 hm, specbot doesn't seem to understand anyway 19:32:31 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:36:17 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:41:07 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 19:43:01 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:43:49 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:46:43 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless131.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:50:03 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-145-135.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:55:56 -!- GoNoGo [n=GoNoGo@cro34-3-82-236-93-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 19:57:38 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:04:44 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 20:17:46 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:18:03 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:22:22 vasa [n=vasa@mm-179-88-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 20:35:19 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:35:37 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:37:09 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:38:54 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:41:26 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless131.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 20:59:33 -!- TNE-1567 [n=sae@ool-182ed1f1.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:02:31 -!- bweaver_ [n=bweaver@mail.surya.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:04:42 jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has joined #scheme 21:04:55 -!- jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 21:08:17 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:08:29 samth [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 21:08:58 -!- ggbbgg [n=russd@willers.employees.org] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:09:58 ggbbgg [n=russd@willers.employees.org] has joined #scheme 21:16:06 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless131.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:16:06 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:16:31 Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 21:17:19 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-69-183.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 21:19:54 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Success] 21:21:01 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-69-183.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:30:38 __name__ [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #scheme 21:30:57 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:33:37 -!- __name__ is now known as name 21:34:27 -!- Eleanore [n=a@c-b273e155.185-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:38:01 AshyIsMe [n=User@b415.adsl.ecomtel.com.au] has joined #scheme 21:39:43 sjamaan: the problkme I have with with-output-to-string, is that it doesn't work on system, it only works on display calls. I want to run shell commands and read their output into a variable. 21:39:56 Ah 21:40:10 You'll need to set up a pipe to the application you're starting, and capture its output that way 21:40:49 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless131.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 21:40:49 prhlava [n=vladimir@79-69-53-31.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 21:43:49 oh 21:43:59 with fork pie and exec? 21:44:08 er, pipe not pie 21:44:20 hmm.. pie... 21:47:19 do you know how to get dup2 fork and exec in chicken? 21:47:54 Not off the top of my head 21:48:02 Try the wiki, look in unit posix 21:48:10 ok 21:48:22 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 21:51:53 -!- prhlava [n=vladimir@79-69-53-31.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has left #scheme 21:52:39 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 21:54:08 You'll be reimplementing scsh. 21:56:02 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@243.Red-79-156-144.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:56:04 gigabytes [n=gigabyte@host68-233-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 21:58:32 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:59:55 Daemmerung: maybe i'll get scsh 22:00:04 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180068075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:01:41 geckosenator: You'll be reimplementing chicken 22:01:42 :P 22:05:26 onox [n=onox@kalfjeslab.demon.nl] has joined #scheme 22:05:52 "You got your scsh in my chicken!" "You got your chicken in my scsh!" Two great tastes that go great together! 22:05:59 hmm 22:07:40 Sorry, too much television advertising as a child. 22:08:24 It's a floor wax and a symbolic regular expression syntax! 22:08:27 scsh? chicken? 22:08:42 schicken? 22:10:31 araujo: pchrist: hkBst: I try to compile drscheme 4.1 or 4.1.2, but make gets killed: make[4]: *** [xsrc/precomp.h] Killed, by PAX: PAX: execution attempt in: 22:11:13 anyone know about interpreters other than drscheme that provide define-type? 22:11:36 onox: try using drscheme on a non-hardened box 22:12:00 Yeah, turn off PaX. 22:16:04 why does drscheme depend on slatex? 22:16:14 seems like a feature that could be optional 22:16:51 slatex doesn't do a lot afaik 22:16:54 It's just a script 22:17:05 I guess they build their docs with it 22:17:25 well, it brings in latex-base and all its deps 22:17:30 heh 22:18:31 I have no problem building DrScheme sans Latex. However, I'm not on Linux. 22:18:41 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:19:32 geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:28:00 onox: drscheme includes slatex, that's why it blocks it. We have #gentoo-lisp for discussing such things 22:28:36 -!- sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-248-18.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:31:13 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:31:37 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #scheme 22:33:10 hmm, no non-hardened boxes, i'll use windows 22:33:12 -!- onox [n=onox@kalfjeslab.demon.nl] has left #scheme 22:36:26 lol 22:37:17 Now onox has two problems. 22:37:35 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:40:25 Even hardened boxes are way too risky for me. Windows Vista all the way baby. Oooh yeah. 22:40:38 -!- ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:41:49 -!- Guest5499 [n=mike@dslb-088-066-244-149.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:43:03 -!- npe [n=npe@32.97.110.64] has quit [] 22:45:25 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:49:35 You should be able to give mzscheme permission to use its jitter via paxctl. 22:49:58 -!- iion_tichy1 [n=Bjoern@e179068007.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #scheme 22:50:01 Or else there's some flag that tells mzscheme not to JIT... I don't remember it, though. 22:56:32 -!- Nichibutsu [n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has quit [] 22:57:45 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 23:00:27 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-251-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:01:33 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-251-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 23:03:28 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 23:05:03 -!- gigabytes [n=gigabyte@host68-233-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 23:21:38 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:24:16 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-251-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 23:31:31 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:34:33 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:37:29 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-179-88-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 23:39:37 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:44:01 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:44:43 annodomini_ [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:54:16 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-200.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:54:31 TheBase [n=thebase@152.78.170.193] has joined #scheme 23:54:33 hello 23:54:44 is there a way to round a number in scheme? 23:56:18 r5rs round 23:56:18 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_308 23:56:19 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5dr9rz 23:56:20 There are several ways to round a number. What kind of rounding do you want? 23:56:28 also floor, ceiling, truncate 23:57:22 I want to make a 2.5 into a 3 23:57:28 which is ceiling I think 23:57:33 (define (round-2.5-into-3 x) 3) 23:57:41 rudybot: eval (begin (define (round-2.5-into-3 x) 3) (round-2.5-into-3 2.5)) 23:57:48 rudybot_: eval (begin (define (round-2.5-into-3 x) 3) (round-2.5-into-3 2.5)) 23:57:49 Riastradh: ; Value: 3 23:57:57 *Daemmerung* applauds 23:58:12 TheBase, there's a rounding routine for you, then! Or perhaps you had something more general in mind? 23:58:40 Deammerung, thanks 23:58:43 -!- benny` [n=benny@i577A0203.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59:01 TheBase, if you are not sure that ceiling is what you want, you should carefully consider what you are trying to accomplish here. 23:59:09 TheBase, what is it that you want to round? 23:59:33 (Presumably 2.5 is not the only number you want to round -- I imagine that you have some purpose for this rounding which inspired you to ask the question in the first place.)