00:00:01 if i return l1 00:00:06 hellues you are returning (cons l1 l2) where you should return l1 00:00:45 hellues is english your first language? 00:01:31 hellues annotated #69219 with "sum" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69219#2 00:01:43 xz, look at here 00:01:53 no Turkish langguage 00:02:06 hellues you removed a ). you need the ). 00:02:27 where 00:02:34 after l1 00:02:39 yes 00:02:56 ohh 00:04:02 why it doesnt giive paranthesis mmistake muhah 00:04:44 i ask one more question 00:04:56 can i do that with higer order function 00:05:26 it will wok for same length list also different length list 00:06:34 I have no idea what you mean by "higer order function" 00:06:55 higher order 00:07:00 I still don't know what you mean 00:07:01 i mean map foldr accumulate 00:07:19 map is a higher order function 00:07:21 why isn't your sum a higher order function? 00:07:23 sicp said that 00:08:00 someone want me to do with map foldr accumulate and so on 00:08:07 default schemme function 00:08:20 "higher order" does not mean "default scheme" 00:08:33 to make your sum higher order, take an extra argument, op, and use op instead of + 00:09:02 okey 00:09:08 i know that 00:09:27 but my teacher want me to do with map foldr etc... 00:09:43 I don't think any "default scheme" list functions work on lists of differing lengths, but that shouldn't matter - once you write your own function it should be on the same standing as a "default scheme" function (as long as you have a good compiler) 00:10:19 you are right 00:10:31 wish my teacher assistant can see that 00:10:32 .D 00:11:14 yeah 00:11:17 stop 00:11:18 i found 00:12:17 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:18:55 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:19:28 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:22:50 hellues annotated #69219 with "sum" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69219#3 00:23:00 xz, this is good 00:23:03 ? 00:24:18 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 00:26:34 hellues I meant to do this: (define map* (lambda (f l1 l2) (cond ...))) and then you can (define sum (lambda (l1 l2) (map* + l1 l2))) 00:27:24 hmm 00:27:26 i see 00:48:15 -!- hellues [n=hellues@85.102.164.37] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:49:36 jcowan_ [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:51:01 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:51:10 -!- jcowan_ is now known as jcowan 01:02:18 kilimanjaro: I do not have to do too much persuading for them to use Scheme, because I usually take clients that just want results. 01:05:34 crazy! 01:05:40 geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:06:54 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@c-24-8-193-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:23:51 raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:34:55 -!- wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:44:29 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-35-21.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:44:37 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-4-68.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 01:50:07 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:53:42 wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:55:25 underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 01:56:01 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:01:13 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [] 02:07:54 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 02:11:23 -!- Nshag [i=user@99.a2c-250-158.astra2connect.com] has quit ["Quitte"] 02:12:48 proqesi [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 02:14:34 airbrush [i=airbrush@216-237-193-157-access.northstate.net] has joined #scheme 02:15:08 -!- npe [i=npe@66.112.249.18] has quit [] 02:22:14 Bah! Robots are annoying. 02:22:19 Stinkin' bytecodes. 02:22:52 robots are stealin' my luggage 02:24:37 -!- mejja [n=user@c-7d2472d5.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:25:17 really? 02:25:35 hehe, that wuz a Steve Martin quote 02:26:51 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 02:27:22 It's like those comedians have a different joke for _everything_ 02:28:02 He is a lil strange 02:28:34 apparently he's a good dude though, I've heard stories of him doing nice things for people 02:29:32 I've heard stories of him making tons of money by -- get this -- performing in movies. 02:29:34 The swine 02:30:01 beckheng [n=chatzill@218.20.188.141] has joined #scheme 02:30:28 he did'nt show any pearls 02:31:01 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme 02:37:45 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit ["boing"] 02:48:23 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 02:56:09 cgo [n=cgoellne@adsl-065-007-140-208.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 03:02:56 elmex_ [n=elmex@e180066201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:04:19 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:08:11 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["bye now"] 03:12:51 Ral_ [n=q@adsl-99-163-106-208.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:16:50 -!- airbrush [i=airbrush@216-237-193-157-access.northstate.net] has left #scheme 03:17:29 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180065103.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:17:31 -!- elmex_ is now known as elmex 03:21:37 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:27:47 r2q2 [n=user@c-71-228-37-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:27:55 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:32:06 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 03:37:46 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:48:28 offby1: why is typed scheme "not scheme"? 03:52:32 eli, can you provide assistance with my lang/reader question? :) 03:56:28 jonrafkind: yes: don't write your reader that way. 03:56:40 ok, problem solved 03:56:41 jonrafkind: use syntax/module-reader. 03:57:04 That already does a whole bunch of delicate stuff that you are very likely to trip on. 03:57:37 ok, I looked at syntax/module-reader before and tried to emulate it 03:57:41 but I guess I did a bad job 03:57:45 r2q2` [n=user@c-71-228-37-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:00:29 Why do you want to emulate it instead of using it? 04:01:17 Also, I think that your code has a different problem too: you're returning #'(...stuff...) which means that you're getting syntax values with an existing lexical context. 04:01:51 yes 04:01:55 That's generally a bad idea. You should (almost?) always return context-less syntaxes -- stuff like (datum->syntax #f ...s-exp... ...location...) 04:02:00 im using this for my ruby language, which is already parsed 04:02:45 I don't know what your ruby language is, but what I said is still true. 04:02:56 you know what ruby is 04:03:00 elmex_ [n=elmex@e180067008.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:03:13 im parsing ruby, converting it to scheme, and evaluating it 04:03:18 I don't know what *your* ruby language is, or what "already parsed" means, but what I said is still true. 04:03:26 ok 04:04:13 When you write #'(begin ...) you introduce a syntax that comes from the reader module. But the semantics of the reader module should not be related to the semantics of the code it reads. 04:04:58 For example, if your language has it's own meaning for #'begin, then you won't get that. (It can be hard to avoid this in some cases, but it's the right thing to do.) 04:05:04 -!- wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:05:19 -!- Ral_ [n=q@adsl-99-163-106-208.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 04:05:19 and all this can be accomplished by leaving out lexical-content information? 04:05:46 so should I do (datum->syntax #f #'(begin ...) #f) ? 04:06:27 Yes, and no. 04:06:45 You should do (datum->syntax #f '(begin ...) ) 04:07:02 because `datum->syntax' will leave existing syntaxes as is. 04:07:48 well, (let ((x #'(begin ...)) (datum->syntax #f x x)) 04:08:01 Same problem. 04:08:32 Do *not* use #'whatever -- that is a syntax value with a lexical context that is coming from the reader module. 04:09:31 ok so what should I use then 04:09:59 (datum->syntax #f '(begin ...) ), as I said above. 04:10:09 what is 04:10:13 (If you have to.) 04:10:16 I wrote x and you said it was worng 04:10:22 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176202216.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:10:29 Some location information for those expressions. 04:10:38 yes, isnt that what x is? 04:10:47 you can pass a syntax object for location information 04:10:54 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-61-150-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:11:16 If there is a syntax error in that code, do you *want* me to see the reader module as the source of that error? 04:12:09 well.. technically since I hardcoded the syntax in the reader itself, probably 04:12:16 but if the code comes from the users's module then no 04:12:33 What you said doesn't make sense. 04:12:47 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-71-228-37-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:13:01 the reader always returns the #'(begin ...) expression, so if there was an error in that code you should look at the reader for the error 04:13:17 regardless of what the user's module has in it 04:13:47 Conceptually speaking, the reader should not be involved in all of this. Never. 04:14:05 It's only job is to read the input file, and produce some syntax values of stuff from that file. 04:14:10 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180066201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:14:11 -!- elmex_ is now known as elmex 04:14:12 and then module-begin does the rest? 04:14:36 If it translates some input expression to (begin blah), then the source of that result should be my expression that resulted in the (begin blah). 04:14:43 right 04:14:54 It is eventually me who wrote that `begin', even if I don't know about it. 04:15:38 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:16:16 so I have a parser that returns an s-expression. my reader should invoke the parser and return the s-expression, then #%module-begin should translate that s-expression in whatever way I see fit, right? 04:16:57 I don't know what "#%module-begin should translate" means. 04:17:22 ok well the parser returns an s-expression which is not scheme code. i need to translate the s-expr to scheme. how should I do this 04:18:03 Instead of more vagueosity, how about an example? 04:18:35 ok, just a sec 04:18:48 (A small one, please.) 04:18:54 no, it wont be small 04:18:59 (A small one, please.) 04:19:05 your choices are large or vague 04:19:11 (A small one, please.) 04:20:26 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-208-195.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Bedtime."] 04:21:05 jon pasted "jon" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69224 04:21:20 ok thats just the reader and the translator 04:21:43 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:21:50 Huh? I wanted an example. You're not seriously expect me to read all *that*? 04:21:55 an example of what 04:22:12 i gave an example on the mailing list 04:22:14 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:22:15 saccade__ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:22:43 An example of "stuff that I write in the ruby file", and "stuff that it parses/read-as". 04:23:06 oh the ruby before and the s-expr after? 04:23:14 Yes. 04:23:19 well actually I'm not doing the s-expr yet, I have my own ast in structs 04:23:31 but I think I will move to s-expr's 04:23:44 I can show you the result of the transformation step though 04:24:01 Your own AST is not going to help you make the result run in plt. 04:24:17 I can translate my own ast to scheme, that is what the translate module is doing, ruby->scheme 04:24:46 Does it take ruby code and produce s-expressions? 04:25:25 yes. parser :: file -> ast. translator :: ast -> s-expr 04:25:51 OK, in that case I don't care about your AST, only about the end result (the parser function). 04:26:09 Does your parser function produce actual s-expressions, or does it produce syntax values? 04:26:11 the end result is the s-expr, the translator 04:26:14 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176209228.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:26:17 the parser produces ast's! 04:26:30 *eli* sighs 04:26:32 -!- r2q2` [n=user@c-71-228-37-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:26:36 you mean the reader 04:27:03 The parser is the above function. I don't care what you're calling "the parser", as far as I'm concerned the reader *is* the parser. 04:27:13 ok, yes it produces syntax values 04:27:35 OK. Do these syntax values have proper source information? 04:27:38 yes 04:28:08 So each bit of ruby code is translated to some syntax value, with a source information that points at the original ruby code? 04:28:14 yes 04:28:43 OK, good. Now -- where is that #'(begin ...) coming from? 04:29:24 well in my real ruby example I get an 'foo is not bound' when the resulting s-expr is somethieng like (begin (define foo 1) foo) 04:29:29 so I was using #'(begin ...) as an example 04:29:50 its only two lines, ill paste it 04:29:59 Is (begin (define foo 1) foo) an example for the result of some ruby code? 04:30:22 YES 04:30:24 sorry, yes 04:30:36 here is the real code, syntax->datum'ized. 04:30:38 (begin (define foo (lambda (#:block g2512 x . g2511) (begin 1))) (apply foo #:block #f (append (list 2) (quote ())))) 04:30:54 So, it should definitely *not* be #'(begin (define foo 1) foo). 04:31:29 It should instead be (datum->syntax #f '(begin (define foo 1) foo) ) 04:31:45 yes, but just to get it to run why does the location informatino matter 04:31:55 im just trying to deal with the 'foo is unbound' issue 04:32:07 It doesn't. You can just use #f, and get a crappy result. 04:32:15 fine. now how do I get foo to be bound 04:32:41 But in any case you should use (datum->syntax #f '(begin (define foo 1) foo) ) for any you want -- crappy is still better than buggy. 04:33:02 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-122-30.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 04:33:02 ok 04:33:55 If you have a (begin (define foo 1) foo) result, then you still don't get anything to bind -- that depends on the meaning of `begin' and `define' -- and that's (usually) determined by the module language of the module that you read. 04:34:27 In your case, it's probably going to be some `ruby' module, that provides bindings for `begin' and `define' similar to those in scheme/base. 04:34:50 right, ill probably just re-export most of scheme/base 04:35:06 right now im using scheme as the base language 04:35:36 So that should work like you expect, but it's even crappier than I thought... 04:36:07 whats bad about it 04:36:21 The thing is that you should make the reader do the minimum job possible, then do the hard work in macros (where it's easier to deal with complexity). 04:36:36 is that macro #%module-begin ? 04:36:42 No. 04:37:03 For example, assuming that that thing is the result of reading `foo = 1', I would just read that as something like (assign foo 1). 04:37:19 Then use a module language that defines `assign' as the macro that does what you want to do. 04:37:24 oh ok, that makes sense 04:37:32 #%module-begin has nothing to do with all this. 04:37:43 ok, chongkai is using #%module-begin to do his translation from sml to scheme 04:38:13 The thing is that macros make things much easier to deal with -- for example, you can define `assign' as a simple macro that expands to (begin (define foo 1) foo) 04:38:24 -!- proqesi [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:38:32 yes, well things will be somewhat complex because I have to move syntax around 04:38:37 scopign in ruby is kind of dumb 04:38:43 If Chongkai is using #%module-begin to do translations, then I suspect his code is also bad in this department. 04:39:17 jon pasted "jon" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69225 04:39:25 ok so whats wrong with that reader 04:39:27 There are cases where you want to do stuff in `#%module-begin' but they're relatively rare -- things like changing the fundamental scope of Scheme expressions, when you want to change the layout for some alternative scope. 04:39:39 when I execute x.ss which uses that reader for its #lang, mzscheme just loops and eats up all available memory 04:40:42 *eli* sighs again, a long one this time 04:41:08 You're still using #'(begin ...) 04:41:28 yes 04:41:45 And that's still not kosher. 04:42:29 it might not be perfect, but I dont understand why it doesnt at least run 04:42:54 are you telling me source location is *essential* for it to work? 04:44:05 hm, the reader seems to be in an infinite loop 04:44:49 kryptos23_ [n=kryptos@59.92.67.19] has joined #scheme 04:46:23 -!- raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:46:59 jonrafkind: sorry, I had to yell at the neighbors. 04:47:14 You have several problems. 04:47:19 dont take your frustrations with me out on them! 04:47:22 What, are they trying to parse Ruby too?? 04:47:42 No, they're stading outside the door and talking really loud... 04:48:22 oh read has to return eof at some point.. 04:48:29 Anyway, the first problem is that the `syntax/module-reader' thing expects you to provide expression readers, so it calls your reader over an over again, thinking that the input file is really big. 04:49:03 There is a `#:whole-body-readers?' option, which tells it that the reader is going to return a list of expressions for the whole file. 04:49:04 ok ill hack it up to return eof 04:49:42 (BTW, I don't see why that hacking is necessary -- it makes me think that you still have a problem in your approach.) 04:50:03 module-reader will keep reading until it sees eof 04:50:09 eli annotated #69225 with "fixed first problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69225#1 04:50:16 (if (eof-object? v) (reverse a) (loop (cons v a)) 04:50:26 since im not returning eof it just keeps looping 04:50:37 See above. 04:50:58 In any case, try the code that I just pasted. 04:51:10 oh I see, whole just calls read once 04:51:22 *eli* goes to proceed with shouting. 04:51:44 now I need a main.ss file 04:52:11 x.ss:1:0: module: no #%module-begin binding in the module's language in: (module x mk module x scheme (begin (define q 1) (+ q 2))) 04:55:20 jonrafkind: Right, do you see the problem now? 04:55:24 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-22-147.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 04:55:42 if you mean that #%module-begin isnt exported by someone then I suppose so 04:55:51 but doesn't scheme export #%module-begin? im not sure how that works 04:56:31 so main.ss of the mk collection has to export #%module-begin 04:56:55 Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-122-30.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 04:57:18 doing that gives me lang/reader.ss:17:7: module: bad syntax in: module 04:57:53 jonrafkind: No! The problem now is the same thing I've been telling you about from the start. 04:58:03 spell it out for me 04:58:13 Replace #' with ' . 04:58:16 ok 04:58:37 same thing 04:58:43 I also had to export #%app 04:59:51 Well, I just used scheme/base. 05:00:02 for main.ss ? 05:00:11 oh instead of mk 05:00:52 jon annotated #69225 with "jon" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69225#2 05:02:17 oh in your annotation you dont return (module ...), why is that? 05:02:57 oh I guess because thats what module-reader does for you 05:03:14 -!- kryptos23 [n=kryptos@freenet/developer/kryptos] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:05:12 eli, ok now it works, but I thought I was supposed to return syntax objects, not quoted forms 05:06:17 facetious [n=facetiou@66.92.130.200] has joined #scheme 05:06:44 oh wait sorry.. the quoted form is converted to a syntax object with datum->syntax. 05:06:49 im losing it.. I need some food 05:09:21 -!- facetious [n=facetiou@66.92.130.200] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:09:44 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A05A7.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:10:03 facetious [n=facetiou@66.92.130.200] has joined #scheme 05:14:42 kryptos23__ [n=kryptos@59.92.67.19] has joined #scheme 05:14:46 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-122-30.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:15:16 -!- kryptos23__ is now known as kryptos23 05:15:33 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-4-68.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:17:52 -!- facetious [n=facetiou@66.92.130.200] has quit ["Bye"] 05:19:38 -!- kryptos23_ [n=kryptos@59.92.67.19] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:27:00 tripwyre [n=tripwyre@117.193.166.54] has joined #scheme 05:27:32 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176202216.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:28:04 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176205190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:28:39 -!- tripwyre [n=tripwyre@117.193.166.54] has quit [Client Quit] 05:34:13 -!- travis|away is now known as travisbemann 05:36:35 -!- travisbemann is now known as travis|brb 05:40:33 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 05:41:25 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-33-193-228.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:41:35 jonrafkind: you *are* supposed to return syntax objects -- but only ones without lexical context. 05:41:46 yes, I got it 05:42:12 For example, the meaning of your `begin' should be determined by the language module that it uses, not by the reader. 05:42:17 right 05:42:41 And sorry for the delay -- I had to go out and get all Israeli on them. 05:42:47 you blew them up? 05:42:54 Almost. 05:43:02 I went inside and blew myself up. 05:43:09 ok good work 05:43:10 Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 05:43:38 Well, it was good in that the party disassembled almost immediately. 05:43:47 kryptos23__ [n=kryptos@59.92.67.19] has joined #scheme 05:44:25 (I can be intimidating when I want to, as you know...) 05:44:43 I dont think you can be not intimidating 05:44:52 :) 05:44:57 eli: just the man I was hoping to find in #scheme on a Sattidy night. 05:45:33 In this case, it was intentional: it should be clear now that every time they want to run a party they should consider whether they want to get the "neighbor from hell" effect... 05:45:38 Daemmerung: yes? 05:46:20 My corporate lords and masters have decreed that they don't want to see "PLT Scheme Inc." on the thingy that I am lovingly crafting for them. Looks like the easiest way for me to change icon and version information on my thingy is to hack a custom mred.exe, then have setup use that. Opinion? 05:46:49 Where do they see the "PLT Scheme Inc" message? 05:47:00 It's in the version information. 05:47:29 Some shells show that information when you hover over the app icon in the shell. (Vista and Win7 explorer, e.g.) 05:47:31 Ah, well... The icon is easy to fix, let me look for an example. 05:48:01 I tried the straightforward hack-the-icon-in-the-final-exe approach. Unfortunately that stripped off all the bytecode of my app. 05:48:45 I can always build a custom mred.exe with my icon and suitably random COPYRIGHT REALLYBIGCO.COM 2008 info, so there is a fallback. 05:52:40 So, for the icon, there are two examples -- collects/help/installer.ss builds the `plt-help' executable. 05:53:04 The `build-aux-from-path' call is adding a bunch of stuff to the alist that customize the application. 05:53:40 If you run it, you'll get ((icns . #) (ico . #) (creator . "H!D!")) 05:53:54 The `ico' is used for the Windows icon, and the other two are for OSX. 05:54:56 Another place where you can see it used more indirectly is in collects/slideshow/info.ss -- it specifies "start.ss" as the file to run, and that searches for files with that name and the appropriate suffixes, like "start.ico". 05:56:28 Daemmerung: as for the copyright string, I think that a better approach would be to just regexp-replace the string with something else. 05:56:54 It does have the minor problem of not being able to provide a longer string, but REALLYBIGCO.COM is shorted... 05:57:01 s/shorted/shorter/ 05:57:31 eli: Thank you. 05:58:07 BTW, you probably will want to look in the file for other things that might pop up. 05:58:51 Me, I see nothing wrong with having the PLT icon on this thing, but they're sensitive about the strangest things. 05:58:56 For example, there is the manifest which specifies things like name="Org.PLT-Scheme.MrEd" and MrEd - Graphical PLT Scheme. 05:59:36 Out of curiosity -- is it "Scheme" that bugs them or just the fact that there is "something else" there? 06:00:19 That is, if it said something like "Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Nov 6 2007, 15:55:44)", would they also want it removed? 06:00:19 I don't really know. I know that "Lisp" bugs them enough already... I think that they just want REALLYBIGCO there most of all. 06:00:57 -!- kryptos23 [n=kryptos@59.92.67.19] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:01:09 As in, when I report a problem with the REALLYBIGCO platform, the first suspicion is "can you repro it in Cxx" (with "God's Own Language" implied though not explicitly stated) 06:01:38 Heh... 06:02:24 Alternatively, you can explain that Scheme != Lisp... Hygienic macros and all that. 06:02:35 That's a sure way to get some serious twitching. 06:02:42 When this is over, I'm going to feed my marketer a lot of Scotch and find out what's what. I'm working for a marketing organization. They tend to operate by sense of smell a lot. Lisp is strange and scary and not what their own devs use, so it's suspect. 06:03:59 For now, though - they want a drop tomorrow at 1pm. (Two weeks before their original deadline, but never mind that.) So I've got to get cracking. 06:03:59 FWIW, I think that "strange and scary" is usually better than having some guy "know" it -- usually its someone who had a course 10,000 years ago, and is absolutely convinced that it's that academic toy thing that has no place in the real world. 06:04:57 I hope you enjoy yourself... 06:05:23 I'll be here for a while more, if you have any non-NDA, non-GL, non-Windows-events questions... 06:05:28 Huh. Just finished recovering from the last all-nighter I pulled for these guys. I am too old for this shit. 06:07:04 I'm all too familiar with all-nighters... (Now working on 4.1.2.) 06:07:37 You're on the right coast, right? 2am local time? Oy. 06:07:48 Yeah. 06:31:07 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:33:25 appletizer [i=user@82-33-193-228.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #scheme 06:36:09 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:42:58 GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.186.162] has joined #scheme 06:50:50 benny [n=benny@i577A0237.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 06:53:15 -!- saccade__ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:12:22 can I use ellipsis for something like this? 07:13:00 ... 07:13:10 sorry :) http://paste.lisp.org/display/69227 07:15:14 that will probably complain 07:15:48 instead of this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/69227#1 07:17:03 ok 07:17:21 add a begin around the 1st one 07:17:34 then add the ... around that 07:17:47 it works, thanks 07:17:47 :) 07:17:55 unless you want it nested? 07:19:07 now for the other ugly macro.. :) 07:19:23 they all ugly when they start :) 07:29:02 I've broken it :) 07:43:26 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055A23.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:48:22 benny` [n=benny@i577A0237.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 07:49:05 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0237.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:07:53 do you see any obviouos mistakes in this one? http://paste.lisp.org/display/69227#2 08:08:28 Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-122-30.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 08:11:31 well it accepts it, and (define-gate foo 10 #f) executes without issue 08:12:06 I'm still getting "expand: unbound identifier in module" 08:13:28 on the elements of 'inputs' 08:14:30 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-166-102.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:14:57 kryptos23___ [n=kryptos@59.92.67.19] has joined #scheme 08:15:28 -!- kryptos23___ is now known as kryptos23 08:16:02 maybe it's because of the expansion contexts? 08:16:27 aha 08:16:53 the symbol that's bound to input doesn't exist in the context of define-gate-first 08:17:03 dont wrap that get-signal in syntax 08:17:15 just quote it 08:17:22 expand: unbound identifier in module (transformer environment) in: get-signal 08:17:24 oh 08:17:55 well, it's still complaining about input 08:19:26 what is the whole error 08:19:39 "expand: unbound identifier in module in: a" 08:19:58 with "(xor-gate (a b) c)" 08:20:20 and "(define-gate xor-gate 1 compute-xor)" 08:20:26 these ones being in the same file 08:20:56 so, is a defined? 08:20:58 yes 08:21:23 in the place where xor-gate is called, but not where it is defined 08:22:16 that probably why 08:22:30 (syntax id) <-- whats that? 08:22:42 I replaced that with (syntax (input ...)) 08:23:16 replace it with (syntax define-gate-first) rather 08:23:33 same 08:23:35 that might not work 08:23:42 I have an older version (before splitting define-gate and define-gate-first) which worked 08:23:57 why are you doing a syntax conversion? 08:24:14 the (syntax->datum (syntax (input ...))) part? 08:24:19 yes 08:24:40 at first I tried writing (input ...) directly, but it didn't compile 08:25:17 because input can only appear enclosed by syntax 08:25:17 use that with-syntax construct i gave you last night 08:26:09 im know there is a difference between (input ...) and (input . inputs) 08:26:53 like this? (let ((x (with-syntax (((i ...) (map (lambda (x) #`(get-signal #,x)) #'(input ...))))))) 08:26:54 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-122-30.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:27:08 no 08:27:14 you dont need the let 08:27:33 just put (i ...) where you do unsyntax x 08:29:13 (with-syntax (((i ...) (map (lambda (y) #`(get-signal #,y)) #'(input ...))))) (quasisyntax (define-gate-aux f delay (input ...) (i ...) out))) ? 08:29:27 yeah 08:29:41 the quasisyntax can be changed to just syntax too 08:29:43 where should I put the quasisyntax expression? as the last argument to with-syntax ? 08:29:56 dont need quasisyntax :) 08:30:39 with-syntax is very handy 08:31:19 where do I put (define-gate-aux ..? 08:31:36 in side it 08:31:47 prefixed with (syntax .. 08:31:51 -!- kryptos23__ [n=kryptos@59.92.67.19] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:32:11 you probably dont even need it, i am looking at the code some more 08:32:30 http://paste.lisp.org/display/69227#3 08:34:40 it says that the map gets a syntax object as an argument (instead of a list) 08:35:05 thats weird 08:35:41 #'(input ...) should create a list with the syntax 08:39:58 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit ["The incensed priests...continued to raise their voices, vituperating each other in bad Latin"] 08:41:46 http://paste.lisp.org/display/69227#4 08:42:07 wow, that looks much better :D 08:42:22 :) it does 08:42:42 and it even works :) 08:42:45 ha! 08:42:46 thanks 08:42:50 np 08:43:13 the big problem was with the escaped ... 08:44:09 well the problem that they were not escaped 08:45:08 do you think that I can easily change (_ f delay (inputs ...) out) to (_ f delay inputs ... out) ? 08:45:15 and in the other places 08:47:26 Iskr [n=i@host84-83-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 08:47:46 it should be ok 08:48:37 but you will probably need to move it to syntax-case later to make sure all the inputs are sane 08:48:57 just the main macro 08:53:01 -!- Iskr [n=i@host84-83-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #scheme 08:58:01 I changed it to http://paste.lisp.org/display/69227#5 08:58:53 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A2BE3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 09:02:20 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-119-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 09:05:00 Kirill [n=user@bas8-kitchener06-1279289958.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 09:05:13 hi! is it possible to implement "apply" in Scheme? 09:05:59 no, it has apply already 09:06:05 :) 09:06:15 =P you know what I mean.. 09:07:06 any ideas? 09:07:29 mmm 09:08:30 nothing but really ugly visions comes to mind! 09:09:57 i can think of a macro, but not a function 09:10:23 okay 09:11:01 i think apply is rather lowlevel normally 09:16:06 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 09:18:27 -!- Kirill [n=user@bas8-kitchener06-1279289958.dsl.bell.ca] has left #scheme 09:25:04 mr_ank [n=ank@220-244-42-72.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 09:29:46 leppie: thanks a lot 09:30:49 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 09:34:52 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Client Quit] 09:34:56 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 09:41:30 kryptos23___ [n=kryptos@59.92.66.223] has joined #scheme 09:42:21 rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 09:43:06 user_ [n=user@p5492438C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 09:53:35 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 09:57:28 -!- kryptos23 [n=kryptos@59.92.67.19] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:02:22 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-066-239-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 10:07:51 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 10:08:47 vasa [n=vasa@mm-37-88-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 10:11:03 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 10:11:47 -!- mike [n=mike@dslb-088-066-239-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:11:50 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:15:40 -!- dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:21:52 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 10:28:33 can someone explain me what the ^ and @ postfixes in names mean? 10:31:43 Leonidas, to what names are you referring? 10:32:33 the units stuff? 10:32:48 regex? 10:34:00 gnomon: I mean these: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/web-server/web-server-unit_ss.html 10:34:37 leppie: I know regexp, @ as no special meaning there :) 10:34:38 ok not regex :) 10:34:50 still trying to open my eyes 10:35:03 thats probably something with units 10:36:32 does r6rs come with a replacement for modules / units? 10:37:15 libraries it seems does that 10:37:24 it looks very similar 10:37:41 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/creatingunits.html 10:39:44 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-83/srfi-83.html this looks pretty much like modules 10:40:23 if that's what was approved for r6rs 10:41:25 that is probably the precursor, it has changed slighty 10:41:32 oh 10:44:59 -!- beckheng [n=chatzill@218.20.188.141] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 10:48:00 -!- GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.186.162] has quit [] 10:56:34 -!- kryptos23___ [n=kryptos@59.92.66.223] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:01:54 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 11:10:22 hellues [n=hellues@88.235.212.77] has joined #scheme 11:22:21 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:23:21 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 11:23:24 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 11:26:36 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:28:21 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-184-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 11:30:43 besiria [n=user@ppp083212086151.dsl.uom.gr] has joined #scheme 11:38:25 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-33-131.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 11:45:17 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has left #scheme 11:52:11 hey 11:52:31 do you suggest any web page that tells how to define polynom in scheme 11:53:26 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:55:18 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-22-147.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:59:19 .oO( polynom? ) 11:59:28 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 11:59:31 *foof* nom nom nom nom nom... 11:59:56 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 12:00:23 mike [n=mike@dslb-088-066-239-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 12:00:33 *ski* mo' nom 12:01:25 polynom 12:01:33 3x'2+2x+1 12:01:36 is a polynom 12:01:37 :D 12:02:27 Didn't we discuss the polynom yesterdy? 12:02:38 Or did I dream that one up? 12:03:28