00:02:15 -!- FareWell [n=Fare@63.107.91.99] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:07:33 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0560DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:12:06 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133117089.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:22:30 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-227-32.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 00:28:37 aquanaut [n=user@pool-71-191-49-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:52:04 hm, I have (syntax-case stx () ((blah) expr)) where expr makes a call to a function that was defined by define-for-syntax. id like to use a macro there, like (macro expr), but I get #%app not defined 00:52:18 how can I define a macro that can be used in the expression part of a syntax-case pattern? 00:52:30 You'll need to be much more specific. 00:52:35 yea.. ok 00:52:39 ill write an example 00:52:45 lisppaste: url 00:52:45 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 00:55:06 jon pasted "jon" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68902 00:55:56 although I might be able to get away with just making 'macro' a regular function.. im not sure how syntax-parameterize feels about that 00:57:42 and that #'foo was just supposed to be some random identifier, not the foo macro 00:58:23 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-0-213.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 00:58:25 hm, actually it seems to work to just use a regular function 00:59:07 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-49-58.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:59:13 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 00:59:45 What are you trying to accomplish by this? Why don't you paste the code you're actually working with? 01:00:48 The way you are using SYNTAX-PARAMETERIZE makes no sense at the moment, for example. 01:01:01 well thats as distilled as I can make it, I can paste the one function that I use or the whole file 01:01:15 you dont have to understand the usage of syntax-paramtereize 01:01:19 that is a detail, I could have put anything there 01:01:46 Please paste everything you feel to be relevant to the problem. If you want to condense it, at least condense it to code that works to demonstrate the problem, which I could -- if I had PLT Scheme readily available -- run and reproduce myself. 01:06:47 If you have trouble reducing the code to a minimal example that exhibits the problem, then just show the original code. 01:08:05 hold on, I think just using a regular define might work 01:08:11 i wont trouble you if this works 01:09:28 jon pasted "all code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68903 01:09:48 but for the hell of it, theres all the code 01:09:53 translate-choice is where I was having trouble 01:10:16 about halfway down 01:19:01 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:22:54 -!- linas [n=linas@h-67-100-217-179.dllatx37.covad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:24:44 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has joined #scheme 01:35:37 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:36:29 *jcowan* unvanishes. 01:37:39 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:38:21 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:39:12 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-5e2fcd36b5c448a9] has joined #scheme 01:44:41 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:44:51 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["bye now"] 01:47:07 -!- tabe [n=tabe@210.188.204.133] has quit ["Riece/5.0.0 Emacs/22.2 (berkeley-unix)"] 01:47:16 tabe [n=tabe@210.188.204.133] has joined #scheme 01:47:58 Half the time, in preparing a code snippet to paste for the channel, I find the problem myself while simplifying it down. 01:49:35 synx: see http://www.ccil.org/~cowan/teddybot 01:51:02 hehe that is such a sweet idea! 01:51:42 -!- wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:54:02 Anyone know how to interpret the bytes that come out of the get-argb-bytes method of bitmap%? 01:54:33 Because I made a 1px image, and extracted the pixel from it, but it ain't in any ARGB format I can fathom. 01:56:36 teddybot: any ideas? :p 01:56:39 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:58:47 Someone did write an implementation, but I forget who. 01:59:24 Uh-huh 02:02:25 jcowan: I'd been trying to remember where I heard the phrase "tell it to the bear". Apparently I made that exact phrase up, but clearly I was remembering "The Practice of Programming". 02:02:41 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:04:19 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit ["rebooting emacs"] 02:06:04 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 02:06:27 Hmm, my desk is lacking a teddy bear these days. This is a serious omission that should be remedied. 02:07:35 Bah, teddy bears have nothing on ferret plushies. 02:07:48 My teddy bear can beat up your ferret plushy. 02:08:05 (Plushy? Plushie?) 02:08:27 Also, my cthulhu plushy fhtagn. See how your ferret plushy feels about that. 02:09:04 Hehe 02:09:12 The only plush animal I have at the moment is an anteater, in fact. 02:09:27 You find the craziest things at the Goodwill store. 02:09:30 I'm going to go shower now while your ferret plushy wets his little seams dreaming of the dread of a fhtagning cthulhu plushy. 02:10:13 Oh no Riastradh watch out Cthulhu is in the shower! Oh, too late. 02:10:57 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:11:30 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 02:11:35 *foof* has a plush killer rabbit from Holy Grail on his desk 02:12:02 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 02:12:40 -!- Gromit [n=bear@gklix.vserver.softronics.ch] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:12:47 At the moment there is a plush ducky on my desk with a torus where his legs should be. This is because he doubles as a rattle for amusing my grandson, who I am supporting in the upright position he prefers but cannot yet assume. 02:12:59 *synx* has a tiny pewter dragon... in the process of typing something on a tiny pewter computer. <3 02:15:31 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-227-32.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 02:15:49 we talkin' 'bout our toys now? 02:15:57 is this what #scheme has fallen to? 02:16:25 please I never discuss my relationships over such professional channels. 02:16:34 fess up, offby1, what's on your desk? 02:17:03 -!- Lemonator [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:17:30 xhanjian [n=Jan@218.109.77.120] has joined #scheme 02:17:41 Lemonator [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 02:19:12 I dunno, I'm not at it. 02:19:17 Computer, stapler, papers, dust bunnies. 02:19:17 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:19:20 The usual. 02:19:23 Coffee stains. 02:19:36 a painted egg shaped rock with a slit in it... capable of holding precisely one piece of paper upright. <3 02:23:32 here's my wife's half of the desk as of a few days ago: http://flickr.com/photos/offby1/2948569990/ 02:26:59 ahaha... awww. (: 02:34:06 Anyone know of any native ACID scheme databases 02:34:24 just something simple key->value mapping, like berkeley DB 02:35:48 What do you mean by "native"? 02:36:03 English-speaking, no durn furrners. 02:36:28 as in written in scheme 02:36:42 as opposed to C with scheme bindings 02:38:12 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:38:50 No interlanguage bindings at all? How can Scheme interact with the operating system and file system, then? 02:39:09 I didn't say that. 02:39:15 I said the database written in scheme 02:41:00 Arelius: I suspect there aren't any. Real databases are very hard to write; you probably already know the names of all the ones that are worth using. 02:41:37 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [] 02:43:34 ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 02:52:53 slib has a bad joke of an RDBMS: (with-output-to-file db-file (lambda () (write database))) 02:53:04 + (with-input-from-file db-file read) 02:53:51 R6RS _might_ have enough filesystem access to implement a db 02:54:16 ... as does any existing R5RS implementation, almost portably 02:55:27 In fact, it's on my TODO list. 02:57:20 wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:02:03 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:02:44 -!- cubix [n=cubix@bas21-toronto12-1279686855.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 03:08:24 jauaor [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 03:08:27 hello 03:08:34 anybody using bigloo? 03:09:01 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-5e2fcd36b5c448a9] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:09:14 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 03:09:18 z` [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-48-200.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:09:47 -!- z` [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-48-200.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:11:41 anybody? 03:11:42 Bueller? 03:11:56 Once a year I try "hop", which uses bigloo. 03:14:39 schme [n=marcus@c83-254-191-148.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 03:18:06 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:20:16 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-227-32.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 03:21:35 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:23:16 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-12419a2ea5526db2] has joined #scheme 03:25:03 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:25:23 sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 03:27:39 -!- Lemonator is now known as OceanSpray 03:27:55 -!- OceanSpray is now known as Lemonator 03:31:45 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 03:33:09 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-12419a2ea5526db2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:33:17 underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 03:34:51 Yeah, I didn't think so, thought it was worth asking 03:39:48 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:42:58 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-48-200.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 03:47:30 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-48-200.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:49:34 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:50:38 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-13-45.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 04:01:49 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 04:06:14 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 04:07:25 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-0-213.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:10:11 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176193040.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:11:21 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 04:13:10 foof [n=user@clair01.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 04:13:23 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176202056.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:16:07 -!- wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:19:18 -!- mejja [n=user@c-7d2472d5.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:21:34 -!- Kinks_ is now known as Kinks 04:22:57 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:23:14 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-203-222.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Restart"] 04:23:28 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-203-222.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:24:13 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless213.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:24:38 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 04:26:30 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:27:53 -!- Lemonator [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:28:45 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 04:29:42 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 04:47:52 so... get-argb-pixels. Anyone know what format the pixels are stored in the byte array? 04:47:58 It's plt specific. 04:49:28 Anyone familiar with a different image loading library? I could use that too. 04:49:48 *offby1* watches the tumbleweeds skitter down Main St 04:50:06 Anyone? Bueller? 04:50:34 What? 04:50:54 Main St. in Bangalore? 04:51:06 Tombstone, FP 04:51:07 Main Street . . . Hrm.... 04:52:48 Ah of course. Main Street. 04:53:21 teddybot you're my only friend 05:06:16 Scheme is a crappy word to search for. 05:06:26 when referring to the language. 05:08:07 indeed 05:11:39 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 05:12:43 Does anyone know of a decent implementation of balanced trees in Scheme? 05:12:56 I want to compare some commonly used tree structures against Skip Lists. 05:13:07 I was thinking of using MIT Scheme's Red-Black Trees. 05:17:36 benny [n=benny@i577A056E.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 05:18:15 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 05:20:14 Not really, I would be interested though 05:20:38 Alright, I will probably use MIT's code then. 05:22:08 I do know that Chicken has a rb tree implementation 05:22:12 but don't know of it's quality 05:23:17 -!- Arelius is now known as AreliusFreeNode 05:23:43 -!- AreliusFreeNode is now known as Arelius 05:23:57 My currents tests I plan to do is taking a large stream of inputs, performing sequential operations of the same type in quick succession, and then timing each of the indidividual operations. Following this, I would generate a string of random operations, and perform them on both. 05:24:01 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-160-133.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 05:24:16 -!- Arelius is now known as AreliusFreeNode 05:25:15 -!- AreliusFreeNode is now known as Arelius 05:35:43 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:37:15 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:37:26 sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 05:50:23 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 06:11:13 xerox [n=xerox@unaffiliated/xerox] has joined #scheme 06:12:01 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-044-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 06:17:41 elmex [n=elmex@e180064240.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 06:20:26 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-d73b561e144bcc5b] has joined #scheme 06:23:58 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@isr5956.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #scheme 06:27:21 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Bailing out"] 06:33:56 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 06:46:42 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:50:53 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.104] has joined #scheme 06:51:05 -!- ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:53:14 rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 06:57:58 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["strawberry"] 07:29:09 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 07:37:05 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05454B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:43:03 pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 07:58:38 -!- pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:06:05 schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7a93398e45775412] has joined #scheme 08:07:38 SuSAN_18_FS^^ [n=sastrone@222.124.24.83] has joined #scheme 08:08:14 ejs [n=eugen@80.91.178.218] has joined #scheme 08:08:16 -!- SuSAN_18_FS^^ [n=sastrone@222.124.24.83] has left #scheme 08:11:57 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-d73b561e144bcc5b] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:16:54 hi, how can I see the expanded representation of a macro in PLT? 08:17:32 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-8d7428ffc708d320] has joined #scheme 08:18:51 -!- jauaor [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [] 08:19:39 jauaor [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 08:20:58 -!- jauaor [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Client Quit] 08:21:23 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:22:07 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:26:04 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-8d7428ffc708d320] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:27:12 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05454B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:27:57 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 08:28:29 syntax_tn [n=syntax_t@e182062125.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 08:31:18 hi. i'm learning scheme and i'm looking for a place to look at source code of bigger scheme projects. the usual tutorial books often only go as far as solving interesting math problems recursively, but i'm looking for actual code of something larger. any ideas? 08:31:32 mmc1 [n=gvtk86@217.147.104.142] has joined #scheme 08:34:25 syntax_tn: quite a few scheme compilers/interpreters are written in scheme, you could look at the sources of those :) 08:36:25 mbishop: well, that's what i was thinking, too already, but i was also looking for something, well, maybe more interactive 08:38:32 syntax_tn: have you looked at the "how do I build a blog" tutorial? 08:38:57 PLT has some graphical things as far as i know 08:40:11 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:40:17 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-168-121.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 08:40:44 and it has games :) 08:43:25 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:44:26 nice, i think that's rather what i'm looking for, thanks 08:45:24 bear in mind that PLT is different from most other scheme's though ;) [though all schemes are different from one another] 08:49:03 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:49:52 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.141.14] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:54:39 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-202.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:56:07 umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has joined #scheme 09:08:26 i wonder what that says about a person if they prefer "solving interesting math problems recursively" to games and blogs? 09:08:29 sado-masochism; demi-god-hood; ...? 09:10:18 sub-humanity? 09:10:32 reminds me of what aristotle said about the philosopher: "But he who is unable to live in society, or who has no need because he is sufficient for himself, must be either a beast or a god..." 09:10:44 well, i guess to those persons, it's no difference; to them blogs and games _are_ interesting math problems 09:10:44 Isn't that normal? 09:10:50 I mean games and blogs are fucking boring. 09:11:25 schme: it's normal for beasts and gods, if you believe aristotle 09:11:33 syntax_tn: you may be right 09:11:37 I seldom believe aristotle. 09:11:40 heh 09:12:18 Debolaz [n=debolaz@195.159.114.206] has joined #scheme 09:12:26 But ya.. it's just a matter of brainwiring me thinks. I find solving interesting problems more fun than video games.. so the problems are my games. 09:12:40 Just not so good graphics ;) 09:13:00 replayability is not so high either :S 09:13:46 dopamine receptors, specifically 09:14:22 What about 'em? 09:14:45 My dopamine receptors have good graphics! 09:16:14 heh; supposedly dopamine is triggered by certain pleasure responses in games: and explains the repetition compulsion of first persons shooters, for instance 09:16:24 but it may be triggered by math problems for people wired differently 09:16:46 Oooh. 09:17:09 released on reward when the game goes "PLINGPLINGBLING!" "GOOD GOING!" 09:17:26 hehehe. 09:17:40 heh; exactly (or whatever the analogy is in math) 09:17:42 QED, maybe 09:17:43 Pavlov's gamers. 09:18:05 That's evil stuff. 09:18:10 But.. 09:18:17 I assume that over age 12 or so people stop with the gaming. 09:18:24 'cept the occassional 15 year old. 09:18:26 yeah. 09:19:11 it turns out there's a lot of 20- and 30-something basement dwellers toiling away in WoW 09:19:16 luckily i ended up in #scheme 09:19:17 could be worse 09:19:23 That's scary though. 09:19:25 Ya. 09:19:33 It could be #c :) 09:19:51 or #c++, for that matter 09:19:53 *klutometis* shudders 09:21:07 yum. 09:21:08 :) 09:24:42 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@202.176.4.21] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:36:40 pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 09:44:46 -!- agemo [n=jovdmeer@igwe16.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:44:57 agemo [n=jovdmeer@igwe16.vub.ac.be] has joined #scheme 09:45:38 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:55:23 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:02:07 -!- pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:06:56 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 10:10:38 -!- Poeir_ [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:12:33 Poeir_ [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:16:22 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #scheme 10:23:27 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-168-121.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:24:58 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-39-56.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 10:28:58 ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has joined #scheme 10:29:39 morning 10:37:11 ok. 10:37:16 "mornin" :) 10:41:17 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-13-45.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:55:52 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-202.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:58:42 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-202.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:07:40 papermachine [n=ahoman@61.152.106.169] has joined #scheme 11:15:45 igli [n=igli@fu/coder/igli] has joined #scheme 11:19:41 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 11:26:15 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #scheme 11:29:59 sad0ur_ [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #scheme 11:39:34 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:39:40 is it ok to ask about bigloo in here? 11:40:26 sure, but you might not get an answer :-) 11:40:49 heh that's reasonable :) update to 3.1b and socket stuff is acting weird 11:41:01 (this may be my settings ofc) 11:41:20 (make-client-socket (mkstr address) (mkfixnum cport) :buffer #f) ;; is the call 11:41:56 Illegal keyword(s) argument(s) -- (buffer) # but it's on website as pretty much same call 11:42:26 (NB I am a scheme newb, helping with #roadsend) 11:43:02 http://www-sop.inria.fr/mimosa/fp/Bigloo/doc/bigloo-7.html#Socket-support is url i have for docs 11:44:02 according to the dev it's a bigloo error, and unlikely to be my compile flags (which have always worked fine) 11:44:34 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 11:45:39 well, about the best I could suggest is to check the bigloo mailing list to see if someone's already reported this, and if not, to let them know 11:46:12 ah ok fair enough, will do. 11:47:16 I just pulled up the source. It looks like the new arglist declaration is.... 11:47:51 chandler pasted "make-client-socket" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68929 11:48:01 thanks man :) 11:49:39 if the documentation is out of date, I'd suggest letting the mailing list know 11:49:41 good point, i'll untar the src 11:49:50 ok will do that now 11:50:20 um would it be wise to get this compiling and make a list of stuff i find? 11:51:47 well, there's no harm in sending separate emails for multiple issues 11:51:53 ok 11:57:42 multiple pangs of shame.... 12:17:50 athos [n=philipp@p54B85DF3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:23:04 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:25:34 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Client Quit] 12:29:30 athos_ [n=philipp@p54B85415.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:30:56 -!- athos [n=philipp@p54B85DF3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:30:59 -!- athos_ is now known as athos 12:31:13 Nshag 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[n=siscbot@24-155-246-159.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 15:48:15 sorbet! 15:48:16 Have you ever been to Europe? 15:48:40 sherbet! 15:48:47 rudybot: uptime 15:48:48 offby1: I've been up for one day, twenty-three hours; this tcp/ip connection has been up for one day, twenty-three hours 15:48:54 wow, hasn't fallen over yet. Amazing 15:49:26 offby1: chasing a bug? 15:50:04 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:50:50 yep 15:51:24 ventonegro: every now and then someone will give rudybot a perfectly innocuous "eval" command, and then he'll crash, printing "with-limit: out of time" to the console. No stack trace, no nuttin' 15:51:33 so I'm running him now with lots of annoying tracing turned on 15:51:37 Heisenbug 15:51:54 hehe pitabug ;) 15:51:57 hmm, I thought it did that with infinite loops 15:52:03 or long running calls 15:52:20 replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:53:06 leppie: well, it certainly does limit the amount of time it'll spend on any given "eval". And that's a feature, not a bug ... but when it does so, it prints the message into the IRC channel, not stdout; and it doesn't crash. 15:53:12 rudybot: eval (let loop () (loop)) 15:53:14 offby1: error: with-limit: out of time 15:53:19 rudybot: version 15:53:20 offby1: c73ba6f 15:53:22 -!- ejs [n=eugen@80.91.178.218] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:53:22 see? 15:53:28 that's the expected behavior 15:56:35 rudybot: eval (let ((perfectly (call/cc (lambda (x) x))) (innocuous (call/cc (lambda (x) x)))) (perfectly innocuous)) 15:56:38 chandler: error: with-limit: out of time 15:57:56 hehe 15:58:40 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:59:08 chandler: what's weird is that the expressions that kill it really _are_ innocuous. 15:59:14 I suspect that's a coincidence 15:59:32 that it dies roughly at random, at that since most expressions are innocuous, those are the ones that come up the most ... 15:59:56 Xion345 [n=Xion345@stang.ens.insa-rennes.fr] has joined #scheme 16:00:09 Hello 16:00:11 aw. it shouldn't die unless I'm trying to kill it 16:00:12 offby1: maybe a bug in PLT Scheme? is this a beta version? 16:00:49 chandler: damn straight! 16:01:12 ventonegro: I'm not ruling that out. I've talked to Eli, who knows a fair bit about the sandboxes, but he can't think of anything offhand 16:01:16 rudybot: eval (banner) 16:01:16 offby1: ; Value: "Welcome to MzScheme v4.1.1 [3m], Copyright (c) 2004-2008 PLT Scheme Inc.\n" 16:01:23 ventonegro: that's a release 16:02:32 Is there any way to return the type of a variable in plt scheme ? 16:02:38 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@rrcs-24-172-255-227.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 16:02:40 not exactly 16:02:51 you can ask "is it a string? is it an integer? is it a cons?" etc 16:03:00 but I don't think you can ask "what is its type" 16:03:06 there might well be more than one answer 16:03:26 i.e., 3 is a number?, a real?, an integer?, etc. 16:03:29 Okay, I thought it would be possible 16:04:48 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 16:04:50 offby1: that perfectly innocuous is an infinite loop? 16:06:13 Hello! 16:06:15 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:06:59 I have a bit of a problem getting my head around thinking in recursion. I know what it means etc, but I need to train somehow, but not sure how. Any ideas? 16:07:01 leppie: are you asking about (let loop () (loop))? Yes, that's an infinite loop, but I wouldn't call it "innocuous", since it _does_ try to run forever 16:07:16 yakov2: write a little recursive functioN! 16:07:21 read SICP! 16:07:23 no, i meant the one withthose 2 symbols with the call/cc 16:08:10 oh heck, I dunno -what- that does, but I assume it too is an infinite loop, albeit a deliberately-obfuscated one 16:08:39 not really, but it just repeats the let all the time 16:08:43 offby1, I actually ordered that book yesterday :) 16:09:15 yakov2: maybe look up the "tower of hanoi" puzzle on Wikipedia; I'd assume they give the outline of a recursive solutoin 16:09:18 solution 16:09:29 okay, thanks 16:10:18 vasa [n=vasa@mm-219-188-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 16:11:32 chandler: done report to ml (finally) thanks for help :-) 16:14:41 kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43FA9.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 16:15:17 -!- foof [n=user@clair01.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:15:25 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:16:08 leppie: well, trace it out a bit. when perfectly is called, where does it return from, and what value does it return? 16:18:16 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has quit [No route to host] 16:18:28 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:18:28 r_rehashed [n=shreedha@59.184.55.95] has joined #scheme 16:22:24 the return value is assigned to perfectly the 2nd time around 16:22:53 passing in say values, will just return itself after the 2nd time 16:23:20 but as i can see it will just call the 2 continuations repeatedly 16:23:40 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:24:59 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 16:27:01 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 16:28:59 lol 16:29:09 i just broke petite chez :( 16:29:43 Cale_ [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 16:29:51 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 16:30:00 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:30:19 Put it back together, quick! Krazy Glue! They'll never notice. 16:30:39 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:31:01 -!- Cale_ is now known as Cale 16:31:38 lol, my bad, i was stuck in the inspector :p didnt know 16:41:01 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless23.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:44:37 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 16:50:36 -!- mmc1 [n=gvtk86@217.147.104.142] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:52:05 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 16:52:23 -!- r_rehashed [n=shreedha@59.184.55.95] has left #scheme 16:52:51 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 16:54:42 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:55:24 hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:14:04 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-111-19-69.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 17:14:59 schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f5b11ef8ad60685b] has joined #scheme 17:16:37 melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 17:18:16 samth [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:21:17 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:27:28 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-202.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 17:33:40 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0546F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:35:10 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 17:35:47 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:35:54 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 17:39:08 LeCamarade [n=LeCamara@41.222.7.35] has joined #scheme 17:41:17 -!- xhanjian [n=Jan@218.109.77.120] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 17:42:59 huyslogic [n=Huy@192.206.112.168] has joined #scheme 17:45:07 bashyal [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has joined #scheme 17:46:11 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:46:22 sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 17:46:56 dereine [n=dereine@stud242094.studentenheim.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #scheme 17:47:19 how can i define, which types can be parsend into a lamda 17:48:18 two lambdas? 17:49:54 our teacher called it "aggrement", or sth like this http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed§Hdr=on&spellToler=on&chinese=both&pinyin=diacritic&search=vertrag&relink=on 17:49:55 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/58345k 17:51:06 agreement? 17:52:59 -!- schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f5b11ef8ad60685b] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 17:53:05 it had the syntax (something name_definition (natura natura -> natura)) 17:53:23 dereine: if i understand you correctly, you cannot do it in normal scheme, you need something liek typed scheme 17:53:57 leppie: No, what he's talking about is contracts 17:54:03 PLT has a library for those 17:54:24 It's a bit like the old assert() macro in C 17:54:28 ahh, so it's like a macro that inserts extra type checks? 17:54:42 right 17:55:00 I suppose they raise a condition when the types are wrong 17:55:22 how would you handle variable arity? 17:55:51 I don't understand the question 17:56:03 Oh, varargs 17:56:08 I don't know 17:56:11 yeah 17:56:17 I'm not sure how the contract system works in detail 17:56:21 oh ok :) 17:56:28 what is it called? 17:56:39 are there web frameworks for scheme by the way? 17:56:41 contracts.ss or so? 17:56:44 Not sure 17:56:48 huyslogic: There are a few 17:56:56 I'm bummed out because, I know python like the back of my hand 17:57:05 and I just found out about scheme... 17:57:08 heh 17:57:21 Magic and web-it come to mind 17:57:25 it looks so fun, but i feel like such a newbie :( 17:57:40 my only complaint is trying to find information because of the word 'scheme' 17:57:46 There are lots of things to use to develop web apps, not necessarily entire frameworks though 17:57:49 lisp is easier to find target info for (: 17:57:53 yeah 17:58:02 Have you selected an implementation yet? 17:58:08 plt scheme 17:58:11 It's often easier to search the implementation website 17:58:14 i just taught myself emacs 17:58:20 took a few weeks to get used to 17:58:43 any advice for things you guys may have come across that proved useful in learning the language? 17:59:06 How far along are you? 17:59:32 I just got up to lambdas and evaluations 17:59:41 I got the scheme programming langauge book 17:59:48 read r5rs 17:59:55 straight down 17:59:56 Try a small pet project 18:00:05 That helps to really get a feel for a language 18:00:23 it's an evening read ;) 18:00:28 r5rs? 18:00:31 i see 18:00:43 there were some topics i didn't grasp at first 18:00:44 Try to make an effort to use libraries instead of rolling your own, that will teach you how to find info about your implementation 18:01:01 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:01:50 And r6rs is the newer; does no one use this yet? 18:01:57 /topic is full of resources .o/ 18:01:59 I always see r5rs referenced 18:02:10 awesome. 18:02:15 some are trying... 18:02:27 huyslogic: r6rs is.. controversial 18:02:49 haha 50 pages 18:03:03 so, in these 50 pages is the whole language definition 18:03:19 yep 18:03:33 yes, but implementations usually extend it... with module system e.g. 18:03:47 and other funkiness. 18:04:28 Pandora.com + R5RS (: 18:04:45 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:04:57 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:05:49 "We are deeply, deeply sorry to say that due to licensing constraints, we can no longer allow access to Pandora for listeners located outside of the U.S." how unfunny... 18:06:02 *foof* was about to paste the same text 18:06:03 lame. 18:08:19 tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has joined #scheme 18:10:59 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-044-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:13:05 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 18:13:12 -!- LeCamarade [n=LeCamara@41.222.7.35] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:23:38 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [] 18:28:21 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-111-19-69.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:33:59 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-241.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 18:38:50 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 18:41:36 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:48:22 rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 18:54:58 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-219-188-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 18:58:27 leppie: have you tried running ironscheme on Mono? How's the support for the DLR there? 18:59:08 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:59:12 works fine on 1.9, 1.2.4 can run programs 18:59:21 -!- NormalJarv is now known as Jarvellis 18:59:21 REPL is broken in 1.2.4 18:59:42 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 18:59:42 i use my own branch of the DLR 18:59:49 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:00:04 the one they have for Ruby and Python is not really good for Scheme 19:00:27 maybe one day they will catch up 19:00:28 :) 19:02:31 i still really enjoy the simplicity of python; i hope I can pickup scheme fast (: 19:02:51 50 pages r5rs, jotting notes while i read 19:03:16 leppie: well possible. They have released 2.0 some time ago and I'm quite surprised by their progress. 19:03:40 have you seen the generated code? 19:03:42 Considering that Mono has no real users. 19:03:53 oh 19:03:57 u talking about mono 19:04:09 i thought you meant the DLR used in IronPython 19:04:10 :p 19:04:23 leppie: isn't the DLR provided by the framework? 19:04:29 nope 19:04:31 huyslogic, I know a little about python, and I have to say that some habits I have cannot be easily implemented in scheme 19:04:36 well in Silverlight it is 19:04:51 so it can be sandboxed in the browser i presume 19:05:05 but i use features that is not availble there :| 19:05:15 (Ex : accessing to the globals() dictionnary, or using type() etc...) 19:05:40 -!- igli [n=igli@fu/coder/igli] has left #scheme 19:05:47 I'm curious, what backgrounds do you guys come from? professionally, studies? 19:06:06 i'm an application engineer in the communications industry 19:06:18 huyslogic: I'm student. 19:06:38 working .net dev for 6 years 19:06:54 do mostly asp.net web shit 19:07:02 leppie: hmm, I thought that there is one DLR is the whole point of it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Language_Runtime 19:07:21 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-202.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:07:26 for Silverlight yes 19:07:49 but a language cant just always run in a browser :p 19:07:59 i would go insane! 19:08:22 ideally i wanna get rid of it at some stage 19:08:29 i only use about 15% of it 19:09:31 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A3347.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:12:28 Considering that worse is better, the desktop will move inside the browser window eventually. 19:13:04 And most people will use not only PITA webmail but PITA everything, written in Javascript, ActionScript and maybe Silverlight. 19:24:17 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:25:08 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176209178.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 19:28:31 "the desktop will move inside the browser" == "640k is more than enough for anyone"' 19:30:48 -!- bascule is now known as ba5cu13 19:31:33 -!- ba5cu13 is now known as bascule 19:34:05 ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 19:38:08 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:41:26 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176193040.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:44:27 kniu [n=kniu@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:48:33 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:50:04 gigabytes [n=gigabyte@87.5.229.253] has joined #scheme 19:53:31 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 19:55:42 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:58:37 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:58:47 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 19:58:55 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 20:00:22 -!- ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:11:52 -!- umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has quit [] 20:15:53 -!- viocizgd [n=viocizgd@209.216.196.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:20:04 -!- ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:23:55 bashyal_ [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has joined #scheme 20:23:56 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-227-32.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 20:24:45 -!- huyslogic [n=Huy@192.206.112.168] has left #scheme 20:29:43 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:29:52 bashyal__ [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has joined #scheme 20:31:14 what is PITA? 20:31:32 Bread. 20:31:49 That's what I was thinking... 20:31:55 In English it refers to a specific common kind of middle eastern bread. 20:31:58 But I've never heard of webmail made out of bread. 20:32:14 Or: a pain in the arse. 20:32:30 aha 20:32:54 All my friends who use hotmail, I'm like, "get some REAL email" they can't even use PGP! 20:33:23 ? 20:33:30 Can they use PGP with another client anyway? 20:33:52 synx: that's nice. 20:34:37 I have trouble using PGP with my mail client (partly because I haven't implemented it yet, but never mind that), and even if I could use it, most people with whom I correspond would have trouble caring about the attachments that my messages would carry. 20:35:12 Well, you could make it more obvious to them by not putting the signature in an attachment. 20:35:27 Well, then they wouldn't care about the hex gobbledegook on the messages. 20:35:36 I use PGP with thunderbird's enigmail extension. But in a pinch I'll pull up that PGP clipboard thingy; works like a charm. 20:35:44 `PGP clipboard thingy'? 20:36:01 "that PGP clipboard thingy" works fine with any mail client, including Hotmail 20:36:06 Doesn't matter though if nobody else uses it. 20:36:30 synx: "pain in the ass" 20:36:42 only terrorists use pgp... 20:36:56 only terrorists talk about Scheme in #scheme! 20:37:28 Yeah it is a pain in the ass. WinPT it's called. I can get it to work. Other people I say just use Enigmail. But they're like "But I can read my mail anywhere in the world!" 20:37:42 And I'm like "Yeah? Well so can Microsoft!" 20:37:44 Siz Channel Her Eist Mucho Enigmatic... 20:38:04 *chandler* asplorbs 20:38:04 Sorry I shouldn't go off topic. <3 20:38:11 synx: no, you asked what "pita" means 20:38:38 Yes, well now I know. 20:39:01 oh somone already sayd it 20:39:03 sorry 20:39:10 riastradh wuz frst, anyway. 20:40:02 -!- |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:42:02 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:45:26 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:47:37 Encryption is hard, because it can't be outsourced. It's a sociology problem at that point, nothing a programmer can do. 20:49:24 -!- bashyal_ [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:50:16 Then again, programming people's minds isn't out of the question... just have to say the right things after all... 20:51:05 plenty of open ports with services, if you know the protocol 20:51:28 viocizgd [n=viocizgd@209.216.196.2] has joined #scheme 20:51:35 ctsprsrcl [n=ctsprsrc@209.216.196.2] has joined #scheme 20:52:57 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o chandler 20:54:21 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:54:46 bashyal [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has joined #scheme 20:56:13 can i call a lambda by the name, safed as string? 20:56:35 the name of what? 20:56:59 of the define 20:58:14 So you defined a lambda, and you want to call it by the string of the name? 20:58:31 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:58:36 yes 20:58:37 Like (define foo (lambda () ...)) (blahblah "foo" bar) 20:59:05 my first question would be, why? 20:59:09 or rather, can you avoid it? 20:59:29 mh i startet in scheme today so its definitve possible 20:59:51 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 21:00:14 i want to write a (define convert (lambda (type1 type2 value))) 21:00:39 now i have functions like convert-m-km convert-ms-khm 21:00:42 well, just as a teaching exercise it's fine. But almost always you can avoid that sort of string evaluation. 21:01:13 i think i have an idea 21:01:24 Oh, so you want to have it act differently depending on the units. 21:01:46 is it possible to definie a module -> hook princip? like here http://api.drupal.org/api/function/module_invoke_all 21:01:48 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-134-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 21:02:07 type1 and type2 are just strings 21:02:51 That looks like a bad idea. But what you could do is implement a module that other modules can register hooks with when they load. 21:03:32 sry for writing php like array(type1 + type2 (the key of the list) => convertnumber) 21:03:34 -!- ctsprsrcl [n=ctsprsrc@209.216.196.2] has quit [K-lined] 21:03:34 -!- viocizgd [n=viocizgd@209.216.196.2] has quit [K-lined] 21:03:39 But as for your original question, what are ms and khm? 21:03:54 -!- chandler has set mode -o chandler 21:03:54 I don't know PHP, sorry. 21:04:37 dereine: Stop thinking PHP, start programming Scheme 21:04:45 So is type2 a hash table, where you get values according to their key? 21:04:46 In Scheme you can actually pass procedures as values 21:05:00 sjamaan: yes sure, 21:05:03 The "call a string as if it were a function" is a nasty hack PHP needs because it has no first-class procedures 21:05:25 ok, perhaps i will come over advanced js to scheme 21:05:29 You can't do that in PHP? o.O 21:05:29 that's nuts 21:05:44 synx: They just added it to 5.3, which will come out next year :) 21:05:57 dereine: If type1 and type2 are functions, just pass them like variables. No need to write their names as strings. 21:06:19 synx: i had a convert function for type1 to type2 21:06:27 and antoerh for type2 to type 1 21:06:30 sjamaan: Will it have sane namespaces too? 21:06:41 synx: drupal ( a CMS/CMF) does this, and it provides an icredible amount of flexiblity 21:06:42 synx: Don't know about _sane_, but it will have namespaces 21:06:48 At least, that's what they say :) 21:07:05 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 21:07:05 dereine: In Scheme, you can redefine a procedure 21:07:18 -!- gigabytes [n=gigabyte@87.5.229.253] has quit [] 21:07:34 The Drupal system is pretty limited, actually 21:07:46 You can only override functions the author of a module thought would be nice to make overridable 21:07:53 sjamaan: mh ok, sure 21:07:56 So anyway, you have two strings labeled "type1" and "type2". What format are they in? Are they centimeters? Kilometers? 21:07:57 (they have to start with theme_, iirc) 21:08:14 but it was written in php ^^ and before oop support in php 21:08:23 synx: i would like to parse it as strings 21:08:25 yeah, I have a lot of respect for Drupal 21:08:50 They make the most out of the crippled language they use 21:08:53 sjamaan: thx, but the language limits a lot 21:08:56 ^^ 21:09:01 aye 21:09:36 i startet with some functions i really like in drupal and tryed to implement it on scheme ^^ 21:09:53 I'm not sure if that's a good approach 21:10:12 Very often, a good implementation strategy in PHP does not map well to Scheme 21:10:13 I don't have a lot of respect for Drupal. They wasted their time making this valuable thing, just like all the other PHP applications, and now we're forced to use PHP because they refused to make their apps in a sane programming environment. 21:10:16 (and the other way around) 21:10:42 synx: That's unfair. It probably wouldn't ever have become so big and successful if they hadn't used PHP in the first place 21:10:42 Can't get a programming job these days if you have trouble with PHP, never mind how capable you are. 21:11:47 the problem is basically, that the managers don't know anything about the technique, they only know the BWL BUZZWORDSs 21:12:18 dereine: What's this function you're trying to implement then? 21:12:26 sjamaan: So they themselves are victims of this whole PHP groupthink going on? 21:12:35 schme: i would call it convert api 21:12:48 dereine: Ok. What are you converting to what? 21:13:04 lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.106] has joined #scheme 21:13:26 schme: kilometers in miles, meterper second in miles per day, AU in lightyears...) 21:14:05 Oh I see . random stuff. ok .) 21:14:19 That's can't be too difficult though ? 21:14:19 So, km -> miles, m/s -> miles per day, AU -> light years. 21:14:42 Sorry if I derailed your PHP bashing :( 21:15:03 No it's... really easy. I mean... 21:15:16 synx: so don't give me anymore tips ^^ 21:15:20 Yes. PHP bashing is really easy ;) 21:15:34 but i want to write a generic function 21:15:43 What's all this about strings I read in the scrollback though? 21:16:00 Ok.. 21:16:08 (define (km->miles km) (* km 0.62137119)) 21:16:37 my function should be (convert (typ1, type2, value)) 21:16:41 generic function to do what, decide which conversion to use? 21:16:45 typ1 is a string 21:16:48 So you want something like (convert 'miles 'km 12) ? 21:16:57 synx: has thats exactly is , like schme said 21:17:19 I'd stay off the strings :) 21:17:27 ok thanks 21:17:29 Oh I get it. 21:17:39 arf 21:17:43 its my first day in scheme 21:17:43 Sorry, having connection issues 21:17:50 dereine: Welcome. 21:17:52 -!- bashyal__ [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:17:52 So like (convert "kilometers" "miles" 12345) 21:18:11 What you want is (convert km->miles 12345) 21:18:18 Or better yet (km->miles 12345) 21:18:24 You could keep a converter table: 21:18:27 hahaha. 21:18:38 sjamaan: thats what i thought 21:18:41 No need for a "convert" function. Unless you really do _only_ have the strings to work with, and can't decide the function yourself. 21:19:09 I think dereine *wants* the convert function :) 21:19:12 synx: sure, but using a convert function is first easier to read, second more flexible 21:19:13 (define converters `((km . ,km->miles))) 21:19:17 Something like that 21:19:24 Yeah a hash table would work good. Just concatenate the two units as the key, and line up your converters that way. 21:19:32 Give it something in kms and it can look up the km->miles procedure 21:19:38 More flexible how? 21:19:48 How will it know that it is in kilometers? 21:19:58 the first parameter 21:19:59 That would require its own datatype 21:20:00 type1 21:20:04 Or that :) 21:20:27 So if you have to specify the first parameter as kilometers, why not just use the km->miles function? 21:20:27 I dunno about the readability. (km->miles 12) seems easier to read than (convert "km" "miles" 12) 21:20:30 Maybe it is just me :) 21:20:34 dereine: You'd kinda be reinventing TinyCLOS 21:20:45 (multi-argument dispatch, except you're passing the types manuall) 21:21:43 one last question, is there a good way to use optional parameters? 21:22:09 Standard scheme is (define (foo bar qux . rest) ...) 21:22:23 Calling it with more than 2 arguments puts the rest of them in a list named "rest", here 21:22:35 right 21:22:56 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:22:56 Most schemes support extensions to make it more convenient to give those names too, and assign defaults when they're missing 21:23:16 Otherwise "rest" will be the empty list, aka null. 21:23:39 i use plt scheme, it is build in there? 21:24:08 rudybot: eval (let ((hi (lambda (#!optional (x 1)) (print x)))) (hi) (hi 2)) 21:24:10 sjamaan: error: eval:1:19: read: #! reader expressions not currently enabled 21:24:16 ah 21:24:29 dereine: Try that in your scheme 21:24:32 Here it prints 21:24:32 1 21:24:32 2 21:24:46 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:24:53 Yes it has some more stuff about "default" arguments. (define (a b [c 3] [d 4]) ...) in plt is kind of like (define (a b . rest) (setup c d with rest) ...) 21:25:10 #optional I don't know. 21:25:17 It's DSSSL syntax 21:26:19 too many esses 21:26:20 I don't trust it 21:26:47 heh 21:27:26 http://pastebin.com/m4c60ce90 so no? 21:27:46 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:28:25 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless23.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:28:49 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless23.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 21:28:54 sort < saws | uniq > saws-uniq 21:29:03 whoops 21:33:59 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has quit [] 21:39:19 -!- dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:39:29 is it possible to check endline in check-within (^^) 21:39:33 dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:41:18 What's check-within? 21:44:25 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 21:44:54 dereine, I think check-within is just for numbers 21:45:39 -!- lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.106] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 21:45:53 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:45:56 i don't need it anymore, i just don't divide through 0 21:45:59 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 21:46:45 awesome 21:50:12 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 21:53:06 -!- duncanm [n=duncan@a-chinaman.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:53:15 duncanm_ [n=duncan@a-chinaman.com] has joined #scheme 21:53:51 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:54:29 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:57:28 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 22:04:46 is there sth like switch? 22:07:43 r5rs case 22:07:43 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_114 22:07:45 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/3qg6zj 22:10:59 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:11:03 dereine, cond 22:11:38 (cond ((question answer) (question answer) ...) 22:14:10 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:15:56 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 22:18:00 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-241.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:18:25 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 22:20:59 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 22:22:35 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Client Quit] 22:32:49 -!- dereine [n=dereine@stud242094.studentenheim.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:34:53 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-202.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:42:58 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-153.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 22:48:40 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 22:56:18 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:00:09 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-134-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:00:22 isn't cond quite a bit slower then case for large sets? 23:04:16 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:07:32 not if you compile it to C. 23:07:58 sodio [n=sodio@netblock-63-66-64-29.myitdepartment.net] has joined #scheme 23:10:45 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0546F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:19:14 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 23:20:03 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:21:03 -!- pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:21:40 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 23:24:04 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 23:25:01 -!- kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43FA9.access.telenet.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:25:03 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:25:18 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 23:27:12 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless23.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:34:42 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 23:40:18 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:45:33 -!- Xion345 [n=Xion345@stang.ens.insa-rennes.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:48:08 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has quit [] 23:49:01 How does scheme do input and output? 23:49:18 is there something in scheme that's like 'prompt' ? 23:51:32 emma: What does prompt do? 23:51:49 emma: Other than that I believe you use read and write :) 23:52:18 there should be a way to ask the user to input a value that can then be used by the program. 23:52:30 a way to get data from the user. 23:54:38 how about (define prompt (lambda (p) (display p) (read)))