00:00:37 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-46-122.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:09:31 -!- rareas [n=user@190.19.127.38] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:16:12 *proq* built a dvorak keyboard for the kids last year so he wouldn't have to keep switching it back 00:22:32 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:31:26 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 00:33:44 n3li7e [n=Neil@98.223.199.215] has joined #scheme 00:36:30 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@202.176.4.21] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:38:07 -!- aoeuid [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-247.ST.HMC.Edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:38:22 xz [n=ramana@c-98-228-42-177.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:39:50 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:42:12 proq: built in the sense of: switched the keycaps; or forged the steel and leds? 00:45:59 a-s [i=root@93.112.73.23] has joined #scheme 01:03:33 i recall solving this for SICP OUAT; but would you have to employ sentinels to map a circular list (which may have repeated values) without falling into infinity? 01:04:35 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:05:24 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 01:07:08 yes, yes; i don't see how you could do it otherwise 01:10:26 sentinels are base cases, in a sense 01:15:35 *synx* builds a dvorak keyboard: $ setxkbmap dvorak 01:17:06 synx: no shit; i always labored over xmodmap 01:17:56 Kinks_ [n=Kinks@uc087.housing.umanitoba.ca] has joined #scheme 01:18:46 -!- Kinks [n=Kinks@uc087.housing.umanitoba.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:21:14 grnman [n=grnman@c-76-110-165-179.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:22:10 heh, well... 01:22:25 at least you don't have to change the keyboard every time you switch applications! 01:30:18 sctb [n=sebell@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 01:34:24 (: 01:35:27 Interesting. EC2 has been too slow for me to deploy off of recently, let alone IRC from 01:36:41 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-211-180.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:37:06 Howdy Aaron 01:37:24 sctb, Hey, how's it going? 01:37:29 i, too, noticed keyofnight's amazon domain 01:37:43 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 01:38:32 Can't complain, winding down after a [short] work-week (in Canada) 01:38:41 arcfide: i was refering to your ?!s back then: is it some sort of interrogative mutation that returns #t/#f? 01:39:01 i'd never seen the !?-idiom before (though i've been tempted to use it) 01:39:18 klutometis: Sorry, I've entirely forgotten about what we were talking. 01:39:36 your scheme-interrobangs (!?) 01:39:55 .o0(Hrm...did I use those?) 01:40:04 you posted some code of a module within a macro 01:40:08 Oooh. 01:40:09 Right. 01:40:11 can't find the link now 01:40:26 Those are not mine. 01:40:26 :-) 01:40:32 oh, ok 01:40:36 curious, nevertheless 01:40:39 Yes. 01:40:54 This was code someone rewrote from a Common Lisp library to fit within the class requirements of Scheme. 01:41:05 interesting 01:41:06 I was trying to further improve it by wrapping the code appropriately. 01:41:29 The person who did some of this is by his own admission not the most sophisticated Scheme programmer. 01:41:38 So it could just be his own personal thing that many people don't use. 01:42:01 hmm; otherwise i'd suggest having a formalized interrobang semantics in r7rs, since it promises to be a hideously bloated doc already 01:42:44 !? = interrogative mutation (maybe a flag as to whether the mutation was successful?) 01:42:58 Convention suffices. 01:43:16 indeed; but was there a convention to begin with? 01:43:30 i was convinced it was a haplax legomenon 01:43:39 hapax* 01:44:27 Adopt it and wait patiently :) 01:44:51 ah; but then you must submit to the law of meme, and she's a harsh and arbitrary mistress 01:45:49 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5o9q7e 01:45:50 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5h7c66 01:45:51 sladegen: ; stdout: "alamakota" 01:45:58 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/6bktf4 01:46:08 yow 01:46:16 rudybot: yow 01:46:22 oh 01:46:32 he doesn't do that anymore? 01:46:32 Come now, we don't abuse the bots amongst conversation 01:46:41 *arcfide* takes a nap. 01:46:41 sorry, my bad 01:46:49 I'd scrolled the "screen" buffer back (where rudybot's output goes) and had forgotten to hit ESC ... so rudybot was blocked until I allowed screen to consume more output 01:46:50 oh, but that's the first law of convodynamics 01:47:13 Whatever C-[ `crappy-mode' that is... 01:47:20 qebab: naw, I got rid of "yow" (or did it ever even have "yow"? Can't remember) along with most other commands, some months ago. Simplicity! 01:47:37 ): offby1: I liked yow! 01:47:45 offby1: but your argument is strong 01:48:06 offby1: these are not the arguments you're looking for *waves hand* 01:48:09 I'm reasonably sure I never had rudybot do "yow" 01:48:15 How many times have I C-x b to #scheme to seem some @#%!$ yow incantation... 01:48:25 those ... are .. not... the ... arguments ... I'm ... looking ... for ... 01:48:29 heh 01:48:36 offby1: yow! 01:48:53 YOW! Asking offby1 to act like fsbot is LETTUCE-BRAINED!! 01:49:19 -!- sctb is now known as sebell 01:49:32 *sebell* was thinking sarahbot 01:58:15 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 02:02:50 cubix [n=cubix@bas21-toronto12-1279686855.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 02:05:46 synx: thanks for your fibonacci-mnemonic, by the way; memorable 02:07:17 It really helps when spelling fetuccini. 02:09:48 not to mention cappuccino 02:12:20 -!- cubix [n=cubix@bas21-toronto12-1279686855.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 02:15:46 or fibbonacce 02:15:50 wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:16:13 cubix [n=cubix@bas21-toronto12-1279686855.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 02:16:39 hello 02:17:27 I have a question about a definiton of or. I still don't understand why (define-syntax or2 02:17:27 (syntax-rules () 02:17:27 ((_) #f) 02:17:27 ((_ e1 e2 ...) 02:17:27 (let ((t e1)) 02:17:28 (if t t (or2 e2 ...)))))) is incorrect 02:18:12 what's it do wrong? 02:18:24 seems reasonable at first glance ... not that I'm any kinda macro whiz 02:18:49 I don't know. Just from an excercise of "The Scheme Programming language" 02:18:59 It says something is wrong with it 02:19:22 seems to work for me 02:19:32 wy: what sort of hint might I offer? 02:19:55 Daemmerung: oh, just blurt it out, man 02:20:10 There is a hint from the book. It doesn't work though. It says "[Hint: Think about what would happen if this version of or were used in the even? and odd? example given on page 63 for very large inputs.] " 02:20:42 offby1: I think of you more as a cheez whiz 02:20:55 when applied to steaks, indeed, I am. 02:20:56 Does that mean... It uses one more step of recursion...? 02:21:33 arcfide: hi 02:23:10 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-8-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 02:29:39 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-21-97.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:40:22 wy: sorry, had a kitchen crisis. Take a look at or2 and the even/odd example, and think about the behavior of that example if the mutually recursive call were not in tail position. 02:42:54 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 02:46:06 Daemmerung: But this or2 is only a syntactic thing. I don't think it has anything to do with tail recursion 02:47:51 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:47:54 Expand it manually and see. 02:48:00 I see... 02:48:30 It puts (odd? (- x 1)) into a non-tail position 02:48:35 Bingo. 02:49:39 Is there a way to see the full expansion of macros? 02:50:47 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:50:54 wy some implementations define expand 02:51:00 wy (expand (quote some expression)) 02:51:14 In PLT you can use the Macro Stepper. 02:51:24 I can't seem to find the list of all the PLT scheme libraries. any one know? 02:51:41 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:52:29 (expand (or #f 2)) only gave me #... what can I do? 02:52:31 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 02:52:46 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:53:52 You could call syntax->datum on the result. But you know what you're going to see.... 02:54:06 That's what I got from mzscheme. In petite, expand seems to work 02:55:00 sili: type (help) into drscheme or mzschyeme 02:55:31 sili: failing that, point your web browser at http://docs.plt-scheme.org/ 02:56:05 .oO("mzschyeme"?) 02:56:37 Is Russian build of mzscheme, yes. 02:57:28 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:57:31 hi 02:57:34 sili: `expand' does work -- but it gives you a syntax object as a result, which is the values mzscheme uses to track source information. 02:57:42 What font do you guys use in your editors for Scheme? 02:58:08 sili: But like Daemmerung said -- you almost never want to see *all* of the details of the expansion, and the macro stepper is designed to show you useful subsets. 02:59:11      02:59:25 nice 02:59:49 probably not pronounceable though 03:00:23 grettke: presently Lucida Console for code, Lucida Sans Unicode for comments. Boring, I know. 03:00:25 grettke: to answer your question: whatever comes up by default, more or less. 03:00:35 Bitstream vera sans, I guess 03:01:16 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit [] 03:02:14 elmex_ [n=elmex@e180064148.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:08:15 I've always used Lucida Console, can't seem to find anything better. 03:10:02 -!- j85wilson [n=jsw@cpe-75-187-46-126.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:13:32 Consolas is cute /if/ you have subpixel rendering working correctly. I keep one of my monitors rotated 90 degrees into portrait orientation, however, which screws up ClearType on that monitor. And Consolas looks pretty bad mis-rendered. 03:14:15 huh 03:14:19 Daemmerung: When you say working correctly, you mean more than jus tturning it on? 03:14:31 I too have a 90-degree rotated monitor ... never noticed a ClearType problem 03:15:09 _jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 03:15:31 I use "Monospace" 03:15:31 -!- _jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:16:19 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:16:31 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 03:16:48 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180066137.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:16:50 -!- elmex_ is now known as elmex 03:20:43 I like courier new 03:21:21 Consolas requires that visual studio is installed eh! :) 03:24:54 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 03:26:50 -!- sebell [n=sebell@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.2.1"] 03:26:57 grettke: Not necessarily. No VS on this box. 03:28:39 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 03:28:43 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-71-228-37-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:30:15 -!- cubix [n=cubix@bas21-toronto12-1279686855.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 03:32:58 -!- n3li7e [n=Neil@98.223.199.215] has quit ["quit"] 03:33:40 -!- grnman [n=grnman@c-76-110-165-179.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:37:03 n3li7e [n=Neil@98.223.199.215] has joined #scheme 03:37:46 -!- n3li7e [n=Neil@98.223.199.215] has left #scheme 03:38:02 n3li7e [n=Neil@98.223.199.215] has joined #scheme 03:38:52 ok I have transparency working for a gl texture....except....all the colors are inverted. >_< 03:39:07 lawl 03:40:22 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit ["Smoove out."] 03:41:28 offby1: Nope, not pronounceable, although  means I/me. 03:45:06 foof: I wanted to use  to evoke "Yow" 03:46:24 What is "Yow"? 03:48:01 it's what Zippy the Pinhead says when you ask Emacs for a quote! 03:48:04 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 03:48:41 I'm protected by a ROLL-ON I rented from AVIS.. 03:50:17 aoeuid [n=aoeuid@WL-4.CINE.HMC.Edu] has joined #scheme 03:56:49 -!- cky [n=cky@202-74-219-83.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit ["Restarting X server"] 03:57:42 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:06:13 I ...see... 04:18:30 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-13-244.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 04:18:38 hello tizoc 04:25:45 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:27:31 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176213122.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:27:31 -!- aoeuid [n=aoeuid@WL-4.CINE.HMC.Edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:27:50 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176211243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:36:07 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-8-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:38:54 AshyIsMe [n=User@202.176.4.21] has joined #scheme 04:39:20 -!- wy [n=wy@c-67-176-146-7.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:40:46 Alana [n=abluesca@97-115-92-105.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 04:41:19 -!- n3li7e [n=Neil@98.223.199.215] has quit ["quit"] 04:41:43 so many people in here... 04:41:48 and no one talking 04:42:08 '< 04:42:13 :p 04:42:16 :) 04:42:21 8-) 04:42:49 hello? 04:43:03 -!- Alana [n=abluesca@97-115-92-105.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 04:43:07 <>!*''# 04:44:01 ^"`$$- 04:44:10 !*=@$_ 04:44:47 %*<>~#4 04:44:56 &[]../ 04:45:09 !{,,SYSTEM HALTED 04:46:28 Alana [n=abluesca@97-115-92-105.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 04:46:31 -!- Alana [n=abluesca@97-115-92-105.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 04:46:35 Alana [n=abluesca@97-115-92-105.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 04:46:54 -!- Alana [n=abluesca@97-115-92-105.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 04:47:00 *synx* loves that poem 04:49:12 dMaggot [n=david@201.227.175.3] has joined #scheme 04:50:02 hey guys, I get this error while trying to run a scheme code in MIT Scheme: RELP needs response before evaluation will be enabled 04:50:12 the code is very simple: it defines a function and then uses the function 04:50:18 am I missing somethign?? 04:55:06 Switch to the *scheme* buffer and answer the question that it's asking you. 04:56:23 oh ok, thansk 05:07:20 aoeuid [n=aoeuid@WL-4.CINE.HMC.Edu] has joined #scheme 05:14:00 cky [n=cky@202-74-219-83.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #scheme 05:34:15 -!- BW^- [i=Miranda@79.138.222.93.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:34:45 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@202.176.4.21] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:38:52 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-31-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 05:48:57 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has left #scheme 05:50:45 -!- dMaggot [n=david@201.227.175.3] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 05:55:44 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-13-244.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:56:49 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless3.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:05:44 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.49.16.113] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:06:34 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:10:36 phenylketonuric- or splenda-crack? 06:11:46 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:14:57 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:17:47 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.48.196.124] has joined #scheme 06:17:52 rudybot: eval (begin (require (lib "random-bits.ss" "srfi" "27")) (if (positive? (- (random-real) 0.5)) 'phenylketonuric-crack 'splenda-crack)) 06:17:52 klutometis: ; Value: phenylketonuric-crack 06:17:59 rudybot: eval (begin (require (lib "random-bits.ss" "srfi" "27")) (if (positive? (- (random-real) 0.5)) 'phenylketonuric-crack 'splenda-crack)) 06:17:59 klutometis: ; Value: splenda-crack 06:18:02 yes 06:20:31 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 06:20:31 thank gawd for the law of large numbers 06:20:54 microcosmically speaking, of course 06:21:21 otherwise, i might have had to submit to phenylketonurics 06:21:30 aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has joined #scheme 06:22:26 rudybot: thou playest oracle; but naught as well as pythia 06:26:22 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:26:37 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:26:57 -!- aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:31:50 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 06:32:45 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-31-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:34:30 -!- aoeuid [n=aoeuid@WL-4.CINE.HMC.Edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:42:27 la la la 06:54:41 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["leaving"] 07:19:25 -!- Lemon [n=karl@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:25:07 Lemon [n=karl@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 07:31:27 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 07:46:44 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:47:31 kryptiskt [n=kryptisk@c83-249-72-204.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 07:50:16 http://www.wisdomandwonder.com/link/51/visualizing-lisp-without-parentheses 07:50:17 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5sq2cc 07:54:45 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:55:09 cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 07:58:39 foof: haha 07:59:36 now with extra eyestrain 08:04:46 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 08:04:59 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["leaving"] 08:10:03 python-fetishist, methinks 08:11:07 nonsense 08:11:12 flat is better than nested 08:11:19 and all that 08:12:08 parens should be omitable around indented blocks 08:12:39 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:15:54 with no other funny business 08:19:23 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:25:39 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:26:14 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 08:52:33 Dr_Betruger [n=chatzill@196.40.38.144] has joined #scheme 08:54:39 -!- Dr_Betruger [n=chatzill@196.40.38.144] has left #scheme 08:55:14 christ; i went to calcc.org instead of callcc.org and thought that chicken had been colonized 08:55:21 *klutometis* whews 08:59:25 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-202.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:00:54 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:03:24 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-138-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 09:07:28 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 09:08:01 how does syntax case and syntax rules relate? 09:08:04 which is more powerful? 09:16:55 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-231-47.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 09:20:08 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 09:27:01 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:33:52 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-231-47.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:34:51 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Connection reset by beer"] 09:35:38 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 09:36:07 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit ["leaving"] 09:50:11 sili_ [n=sili@203.177.200.28] has joined #scheme 09:55:03 besiria [n=user@ppp083212084220.dsl.uom.gr] has joined #scheme 09:58:06 -!- sili [n=sili@222.127.173.140] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:58:15 Dark-Star [i=Darkstar@p57B573BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:15:18 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053F6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:21:13 besiria` [n=user@ppp083212084220.dsl.uom.gr] has joined #scheme 10:21:37 -!- besiria [n=user@ppp083212084220.dsl.uom.gr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:22:02 -!- besiria` [n=user@ppp083212084220.dsl.uom.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:25:11 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 10:32:01 besiria [n=user@ppp083212084220.dsl.uom.gr] has joined #scheme 10:32:38 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-228-157.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:51:20 certainty [n=closure@dslb-082-083-132-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 11:02:58 cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-192-208-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 11:04:27 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-192-208-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:12:30 -!- sm [n=sm@pool-71-104-93-120.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 11:19:18 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-231-47.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 11:23:07 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-231-47.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:28:05 sm [n=sm@pool-71-104-93-120.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 11:29:35 -!- sm [n=sm@pool-71-104-93-120.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:46:40 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:01:16 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 12:03:09 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit [Client Quit] 12:08:37 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-231-47.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 12:20:49 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-231-47.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:21:19 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 12:36:36 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 12:43:36 peter_ [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 12:43:39 -!- peter_ is now known as sjamaan 12:54:00 allnmymind [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279680047.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 12:55:56 the former is more powerful 12:56:24 syntax case lets you use Scheme to create the syntax; syntax rules restricts you to its pattern language 13:03:19 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 13:05:10 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 13:11:30 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:13:04 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 13:19:29 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-138-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:20:41 cubix [n=cubix@CPE0013100506c1-CM001692411b42.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 13:22:43 Jarv2 [n=Jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #scheme 13:23:44 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 13:26:45 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:35:40 -!- JHVH [n=Jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:36:20 -!- Kinks_ [n=Kinks@uc087.housing.umanitoba.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:39:07 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:40:00 Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 13:42:58 Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-105-1-7.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 13:43:12 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:01:31 cmatei [n=cmatei@85.186.180.45] has joined #scheme 14:09:46 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 14:12:14 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 14:18:04 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-152-ndn-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:18:20 -!- sili_ [n=sili@203.177.200.28] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:20:21 LeCamarade [n=LeCamara@41.222.7.35] has joined #scheme 14:22:54 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:23:05 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 14:32:42 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0A3C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:36:59 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:37:03 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 14:39:03 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 14:39:35 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 14:39:58 Hi guys. What version of Emacs do you guys recommend? 14:40:31 I use GNU Emacs, of whatever version is most conveniently available. 14:40:37 grettke: SXEmacs, of course. 14:44:08 GNU Emacs 22.x 14:45:16 grettke: I use whatever was current the last time I did "git pull" from the sources ... which I do every week or so 14:45:31 git://git.sv.gnu.org/emacs.git 14:45:58 Oh, have they switched to git now? 14:46:20 GreyLensman [n=od@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:46:49 the future is here! 14:47:14 now its past... 14:47:34 Riastradh: no, someone (snogglethorpe?) just maintains that repo 14:47:39 they're still using CVS 14:48:08 OK. 14:48:22 I thought they switched to bazaar? 14:49:04 it's not even now, now. 14:49:13 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 14:50:56 RMS says, if they switch to any other system, it should be bazaar, because it's a GNU project too. 14:51:05 Unfortunately it's too slow to use. But that doesn't seem to matter 14:51:06 *sigh* 14:52:05 -!- Dark-Star [i=Darkstar@p57B573BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:52:20 Dark-Star [i=Darkstar@p57B53F11.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:52:36 Why would silly things like that matter? ;) 14:53:33 but git is Linux! 14:54:38 Yes.. and linux is not GNU. 14:54:55 offby1: apart from being slow, bzr is actually quite pleasant to use. 14:55:20 and apart from not getting answers on #bzr, it is even quite nice to program ;) 14:57:12 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 14:57:43 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-231-47.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:57:46 git is the future. 14:59:03 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #scheme 15:01:11 Leonidas: that's sort of like saying "Apart from making you vomit, this dessert is quite tasty" 15:04:29 offby1: maybe a bit. I'm using it in our company and am happy for not taking git in the first place, because nobody would use it. 15:05:33 Ok thanks guys. 15:05:48 louzer [n=edwin@nusnet-192-118.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 15:07:06 Leonidas: there is that. 15:07:11 git is _really_ hard to learn 15:07:50 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-146-152-ndn-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:08:07 nvteighen [n=nvteighe@98.Red-79-147-224.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 15:08:47 Hey, I didn't know this existed... :p 15:08:55 a-s` [i=root@93.112.73.23] has joined #scheme 15:09:14 -!- a-s [i=root@93.112.73.23] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:11:59 offby1: http://meinwords.wordpress.com/2008/06/02/git-for-the-impatient-ignorant-like-me/ 15:12:00 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5gfl7l 15:14:39 nvteighen: You didn't know the internet existed??? 15:17:04 louzer: I like that title. 15:17:47 offby1: i want to continue writing on it.. so i will do it soon 15:18:10 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.48.196.124] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:20:08 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-8-242.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 15:21:03 schme: :D I meant the channel... 15:27:11 allnmymi` [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279680047.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 15:30:57 -!- GreyLensman [n=od@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:31:29 offby1: but I have to admit that git 1.5 really got more comfortable than, say git 1.4 15:31:53 vasa [n=vasa@mm-83-187-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 15:32:25 i have never used git, everytime i tried it on cygwin, it just segfaulted 15:33:56 leppie: it is said to be better not, with gitmingw32 (git and something with mingw32, don't remembr the exact name) 15:34:36 grettke: I just took a look into your blog, intersting! 15:34:50 s/intersting/interesting/ 15:36:22 Leonidas: I never used git 1.4 but I too heard it was pretty bad :) 15:36:51 it's what is there in debian etch and is even more confusing than git as it is now :D 15:42:29 gosh, that's saying a lot :) 15:42:56 happily git is beautifully easy to build from source. So there's little excuse not to have an up-to-date version 15:45:18 -!- nvteighen [n=nvteighe@98.Red-79-147-224.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #scheme 15:45:51 -!- LeCamarade [n=LeCamara@41.222.7.35] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:48:25 yakov2 [n=yakov@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #scheme 15:49:02 RadioApeShot [n=toups@207.59.145.201] has joined #scheme 15:49:11 Hi #scheme 15:49:16 Anyone using SISC actively? 15:52:16 RadioApeShot: klutometis has confessed to using SISC, but he's not a morning person 15:53:27 The module system is interacting strangely with the Java interface. 15:53:39 Looks like their is some gensym stuff going wrong. 15:53:52 The upshot is that I can't seem to define modules which use the java interface. 15:54:05 What do schemers usually do when they don't have a good module system? 15:54:16 Does SLIB provide a portable system of some kind that I can use instead? 15:54:32 *offby1* laughs cruelly 15:54:37 *offby1* guffaws 15:54:49 BAAAAHAHAHAHAH HaHAHAA HA HA HHHHA AH *snort* HA HHA HAHAHA HA HAH HAH HAH HAHAH HAH HAH oh man HAH AH HAAAAA HAAAHHH *cough* *cough* *cough* hah hehhh hehhhhh geez.. *cough* 15:55:01 I think maybe SISC supports require-extension from R6RS 15:55:20 Or something like R6RS libraries. 15:55:27 Your laughter is not heartening 15:55:41 I've done my job, then 15:55:55 Man 15:55:56 Lisp 15:55:56 actually I don't know much about SISC but I'd assume it has something halfway-decent 15:56:02 `require-extension' is nothing I recognize from R6RS. 15:56:05 but SLIB, though ... geez 15:56:13 there is some convenient stuff in it 15:56:18 I use it sometimes 15:56:23 yeah sure 15:56:24 arrays 15:56:25 i thought you were laughing at java maybe :) 15:56:41 leppie: heck no; I'd love to have access to all those java libraries from scheme 15:56:56 I just want a good, portable lisp with enough graphics primitives to scale and rotate sprites that will run on any platform. 15:57:00 yeah, 1 bonus 15:57:04 SISC appears to be the best shot. 15:57:17 PLT is probably worth looking into 15:57:26 PLT is ok, but the drawing primitives are pretty sparse 15:57:28 ah 15:57:31 No scaling and rotation. 15:57:36 RadioApeShot: I would work harder on making SISC's modules work before resorting to SLIB. 15:57:37 yeah, I really don't know anything about graphics, so ... 15:57:39 And I kind of hate the class system 15:57:51 It is baroque. 15:57:52 we call it a "caste" system. 15:57:53 ypsilon has a nice interface to Opengl 15:58:15 Well, I already have SLIB up and running in my SISC 15:58:39 Maybe I can port pygame over to PLT 15:58:44 That would be nice 15:58:49 DOn't have time for that, though 15:59:08 -!- a-s` [i=root@93.112.73.23] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:59:08 CLOS 15:59:19 It is so hard to use the PLT Class system once you get used to CLOS 15:59:47 I actually started the project in CL because lispbuilder-sdl and sdl-gfx provide the functionality I need. 16:00:06 The PLT class system very deliberately is not CLOS. 16:00:09 But I suspect getting that up and running on Windows with SBCL will be a major hostile 16:00:22 Daemmerung: What was the reasoning behind that? 16:00:29 RadioApeShot: Performance. 16:00:48 Daemmerung: CLOS seems ok under CL. 16:00:57 *Daemmerung* shrugs 16:01:00 Daemmerung: But I can't claim to really know how it is performance wise. 16:01:50 Catch eli here some time. He wrote Swindle, a CLOSsish system for PLT. Me, I use objects only when I must. 16:02:05 I use Swindle a lot when coding in PLT 16:02:17 I did some consulting work using PLT scheme 16:02:18 It is great 16:02:24 Except for the class system 16:02:33 gigabytes [n=gigabyte@host72-236-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 16:02:41 I generally use CLOS as a glorified record system anyway. 16:02:52 hellooooo :D 16:03:04 Very little use of generic methods or anything 16:03:13 hellooooo 16:06:15 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["bye now"] 16:06:24 Maybe I will try compiling the latest sources of SISC 16:06:25 "Enough gfx prims to scale and rotate sprites that will run on any platform" - PLT + opengl. Not trying to talk you out of SISC+Java, just sayinig. 16:06:56 Opengl is pretty low level 16:07:08 RadioApeShot: good luck. 16:07:15 I always end up writing lots of library code when working in Lisp 16:07:25 I guess I should share it 16:07:34 yep 16:07:50 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-255-235.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 16:08:08 Anyone need to work with/fit polynomials? 16:08:21 I finally ported my polynomial library to the latest PLT 16:08:57 Unfortunately I was using Swindle's printing system to handle printing nice representations of the polynomials to the REPL 16:09:01 And that broke between versions. 16:09:22 But the library supports polynomial addition/subtraction/multiplication and fitting 16:09:40 And evaluation, of course. 16:11:08 sounds like it's worth uploading to PLaneT. 16:11:18 and using in the solution of Project Euler problems :) 16:11:29 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 16:12:48 I wish I could get the printer working 16:14:38 *offby1* laughs cruelly 16:15:12 Donald Knuth, Richard Stallman, Richard Feynman, Eric Raymond, Linus Torvalds, John McCarthy ... none can get their printers working either 16:15:24 ('course Feynman is dead, so he's handicapped that way) 16:15:55 (and Raymond is handicapped in other ways) 16:16:37 fitting polynomials - I have dumbed down my current gig not to need that. But could certainly use that in a PLT lib. 16:17:32 NURBS are hard, let's go shopping. 16:17:54 lol 16:27:01 -!- allnmymi` [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279680047.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:32:08 -!- RadioApeShot [n=toups@207.59.145.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:33:26 allnmymi` [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279680047.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 16:39:33 ffx` [n=tits@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 16:42:02 ecraven [n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net] has joined #scheme 16:43:08 hellues [n=hellues@78.183.199.224] has joined #scheme 16:43:10 hey 16:43:15 i am newbie on scheme 16:43:21 and i ask a questioon 16:43:44 i try to learn higher order function 16:44:03 and i write (map (foldr + 0 (+ (sqr 2) 3) '(1 2 3 4 5))) i took non qual length input lists 16:44:18 aha 16:45:08 do you suggest a documentation for learning higer order function ? 16:45:18 sicp 16:45:26 hey sladegen 16:46:05 unusual to see (map (foldr 16:46:18 *sladegen* peers adound suspiciously. 16:46:46 i read a sicp 16:47:01 does foldr return a lambda? 16:48:14 is foldr a higher order function? 16:49:32 sico says foldr horf 16:49:42 lisppaste, url 16:49:42 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 16:50:24 hellues speaks very concisely 16:50:25 hey offby1 16:50:45 sorry 16:50:57 meticulessness is kleenlines is next to godliness. 16:51:39 hellues pasted "accumulate and map" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68754 16:51:40 and typos are evilfulness. 16:52:03 what is my mistake of that thing pls look my url 16:52:23 hellues: indentation, first of all 16:52:26 accumulate takes operation which is map initial and list 16:52:37 r5rs map 16:52:37 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_558 16:52:38 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5g3njv 16:52:43 foldr returns whatever you tell it to return 16:54:43 duncanm, i try to do for example '((1 3 4) (3 4 1) (1 2 3)) ---> (7 7 8) 16:55:49 rudybot: eval (map + '((1 3 4) (3 4 1) (1 2 3))) 16:55:50 offby1: error: +: expects argument of type ; given (1 3 4) 16:55:53 oops 16:55:57 reverse higher orderness 16:56:01 rudybot: eval (map + (1 3 4) (3 4 1) (1 2 3)) 16:56:02 offby1: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: 1; arguments were: 3 4 16:56:05 foo 16:56:16 benny [n=benny@i577A17E9.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 16:56:30 rudybot: eval (map + '(1 3 4) '(3 4 1) '(1 2 3)) 16:56:30 offby1: ; Value: (5 9 8) 16:56:37 close, anyway 16:56:59 and totally wrong ;) 16:57:02 ayup 16:57:05 I see that now 16:57:18 rudybot: eval (map (lambda (seq) (apply + seq)) '(1 3 4) '(3 4 1) '(1 2 3)) 16:57:18 offby1: error: map: arity mismatch for #: expects 1 argument, given 3 16:57:24 crap! 16:57:26 fail! 16:57:27 only don't give him a straight answer. 16:57:34 rudybot: eval (map (lambda (seq) (apply + seq)) '((1 3 4) (3 4 1) (1 2 3))) 16:57:34 offby1: ; Value: (8 8 6) 16:57:57 ok, I admit it: I have no idea what he's trying to do 16:58:04 moi non plus 16:58:46 rudybot: eval (begin (require srfi/26) (map [cut apply + _] '((1 3 4) (3 4 1) (1 2 3)))) 16:58:47 offby1: error: eval:1:43: _: wildcard not allowed as an expression in: _ 16:58:54 i guess he is in need of mapping acumulate... 16:58:54 hmm 16:59:31 rudybot: eval (begin (require srfi/26) (map [cut (format "I sure wish I knew how to add ~a" _)] '((1 3 4) (3 4 1) (1 2 3)))) 16:59:31 offby1: error: eval:1:78: _: wildcard not allowed as an expression in: _ 16:59:41 perhaps I misunderstand srfi 26 16:59:50 but that's already giving away too much. 17:00:23 rudybot: eval (begin (require srfi/26) (map [cut apply + <>] '((1 3 4) (3 4 1) (1 2 3)))) 17:00:23 offby1: ; Value: (8 8 6) 17:00:27 been doing too much Erlang 17:00:43 funny error message, when you think about it 17:02:13 or not mapping /me notices reversed order in the supposed answer. 17:02:31 wow, I cannot parse that 17:02:52 off by one _and_ in reverse order, you're saying? Hmm 17:03:09 offbyoo 17:03:36 *sladegen* afks. 17:04:50 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 17:08:36 are there a tutorial that iexplains higher order function with all possible usage ? 17:09:33 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:11:32 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B053F6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:12:39 how can avoid a to get a fraction when I divide two integers? 17:12:43 I want the integer division 17:12:47 uh 17:12:48 quotient 17:12:49 thanks XD 17:13:19 besiria` [n=user@83.212.85.49] has joined #scheme 17:15:48 -!- besiria [n=user@ppp083212084220.dsl.uom.gr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:16:50 -!- sodio [n=sodio@netblock-63-66-64-29.myitdepartment.net] has quit [] 17:18:25 sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-250-232.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:20:01 -!- sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-250-232.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:27:36 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:28:04 oneunshamed [n=hoffmann@ip68-97-237-165.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 17:28:26 not really related to scheme - but if any of you guys are into collecting celebrity memorbilla, etc - company I am working for is streamcasting (w/ interactive bidding) the Bob Hope estate auction going on right now in Hollywood. http://www.auctionnetwork.com/ 17:28:32 cool concept at the very least :) 17:28:36 -!- gigabytes [n=gigabyte@host72-236-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 17:29:55 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 17:31:19 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:32:56 besiria`` [n=user@ppp083212086175.dsl.uom.gr] has joined #scheme 17:33:14 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:35:15 not really related to scheme at all, really 17:36:39 any Scheme code in your stuff? 17:37:58 What? Is Bob Hope dead? 17:38:05 it can't be 17:38:19 I always thought he was more of a CL guy. 17:38:21 why, I saw him golfing with Generalissimo Franco just thirty-five years agao 17:38:33 It seems like only yesterday. 17:39:19 -!- besiria` [n=user@83.212.85.49] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:39:35 *Daemmerung* wikipedias... whoa, he's been dead for half a decade. 17:40:14 And apparently still dead. Just like the generalissimo. 17:41:10 *offby1* casts "detect age" in the direction of Mazama, and awaits the result 17:41:11 ... 17:41:12 ... 17:41:16 got it: "over forty" 17:41:19 *Daemmerung* fails his saving throw 17:41:23 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 17:43:33 sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-250-232.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:46:38 oneunshamed: didn't they arrest some people in tulsa for bob-hope-olatry awhile back? then there was that guy that called himself the "moses of turkey mountain" 17:47:57 lol? 17:48:21 that is the question 17:49:55 whether-to-lol-or-not-to-lol?! 17:53:28 -!- sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-250-232.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 17:53:47 definitely _not_ 17:55:46 does anyone else click on the jane capital link when googling for r5rs just to make them think there's more interest in scheme? 17:57:39 course, it probably costs them a few cents every time 17:59:25 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 18:04:11 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:04:15 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 18:07:46 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 18:11:06 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-8-2.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 18:11:43 -!- oneunshamed [n=hoffmann@ip68-97-237-165.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #scheme 18:12:38 delamarche [n=delamarc@CPE000f3d3d958f-CM0011aea4a834.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 18:12:45 hullo 18:13:19 Kinks [n=Kinks@uc087.housing.umanitoba.ca] has joined #scheme 18:15:52 that's what they all say ... at first 18:18:12 impeachgod_ [n=Long@195.64.148.162] has joined #scheme 18:21:14 hellues pasted "accumulate and map" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68762 18:21:48 hey i wrote fold-right function than call it and took a mistake what is the mistake on code . can you say this i cant find 18:22:01 that's not tail recursive ... shouldn't it be? 18:22:30 offby1: fold-right is never tail-recursive 18:22:32 thats recursive 18:23:02 i took this +: expects type as 2nd argument, given: (); other arguments were: 3 18:23:34 offby1 annotated #68762 with "hellues" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68762#1 18:25:25 that looks same 18:25:35 no 18:26:11 almost but not quite. 18:26:19 You return "null"; I return "initial". 18:26:27 (You meant to return ' () but that's wrong too :-) 18:26:38 ha you change initial 18:26:47 sorry 18:26:50 :D 18:26:52 offby1, 18:27:19 i wonder smt you said i guess recursive is actually iterative i hope i dont remember wrong 18:28:22 close enough, I guess 18:28:33 well i had question but i just answered it myself :) 18:28:33 recursion isn't _exactly_ the same thing as iteration, but the concepts overlap some 18:28:50 delamarche: was the question "is offby1 a pretentious blowhard"? 18:28:51 offby1, 18:28:58 can you explain more clearly 18:29:24 more precisely 18:29:24 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-8-242.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:29:29 i so much wonder 18:29:40 offby1: I 'm trying to lay off the tautologies 18:29:53 hellues: it's hard to explain but I'll try. 18:30:00 "recursion" is when a function calls itself. 18:30:09 (define (foo) (bar) (baz) (foo)) 18:30:20 "iteration" is when some code gets executed over and over. 18:30:46 in most languages, those concepts are quite separate: in C, for example, recursion is just as it is in Scheme, but they have special forms like "for" and "while" for iteration. 18:31:01 In scheme, however, you can use recursion to do all your iteration, if you want. 18:31:24 because scheme always "optimizes tail calls"; most other languages don't promise that 18:31:45 so if you tried to use recursion for iteration in _those_ languages, it would work for a while, but your program might well run out of memory. 18:32:11 hellues: do you know any other language well? Maybe I could use it as an example 18:32:50 i know java 18:32:55 -!- allnmymi` [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279680047.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:32:57 c and python 18:33:02 oh! good 18:33:07 so you might understand my C example 18:33:17 but i am not advanced 18:33:19 neither java nor python optimizes tail calls 18:33:46 what does "optimize tail calls" mean 18:33:50 can you explain that 18:34:02 one of the innovative things about Scheme, back in 1975 when it was invented, was that it didn't have _any_ special syntax for iteration; they used recursion for everything. 18:34:16 "optimizing tail calls" ... probably best to look it up on Wikipedia, really 18:34:28 dunno if there's Turkish or Greek articles on it, but there might be 18:34:51 yes 18:34:58 turkis wikipedia exist 18:35:11 http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuyruk_%C3%B6zyineleme 18:35:13 there ya go 18:35:35 i am reading english text better relatively than i write :D 18:35:49 well, your English is better than my Turkish ... 18:35:55 ehehe 18:36:23 offby1, thats all about iterative an recursive 18:36:50 that's good, yes? 18:37:03 ey 18:37:06 okey 18:37:10 i wonna ask smting 18:37:31 you said "iteration" is when some code gets executed over and over. 18:37:48 yes. 18:37:55 actually i know recursive well but iteration is not good as recursive 18:38:05 for (i = 0; i < 10; i++) { printf ("I am getting called over and over\n"); } 18:38:12 rhmm 18:38:14 you said 18:38:22 in iteration some part of code 18:38:29 executed over and over again 18:38:35 I did indeed say that, yes. 18:38:40 but in recursion whole code executed 18:38:44 In fact this conversation itself is starting to smack of iteration ... 18:38:53 yeah 18:39:04 so recursion use memory 18:39:13 because of this? 18:39:17 pretty much all computation uses _some_ memory 18:39:34 in most languages -- and in scheme, in some cases -- every function call consumes a little memory. 18:39:50 but infinite loop works 18:39:52 so if you have a function call itself 1,000,000 times, it will use 1,000,000 pieces of memory. 18:39:54 That adds up. 18:39:55 does it stuck 18:40:19 i said you wrote for(;;) 18:40:36 does it sop in somewhere 18:40:41 stop* 18:40:53 i dont know "stop" is suitable word 18:41:06 no, "for (;;)" never stops, unless it's " for (;;;) { yadda (); break; }" 18:41:14 no, "for (;;)" never stops, unless it's " for (;;) { yadda (); break; }" 18:41:18 (too many ;) 18:41:35 what is yadda 18:41:45 it means "blah blah blah" or "etc" 18:42:01 but iteration use some piece of memory 18:42:05 well, sure. 18:42:15 But it doesn't use _more and more_ memory as it goes. 18:42:26 but memory ends in somewhere why infinite loop never stops 18:42:44 because an infinite loop doesn't use an infinite amount of memory :) 18:42:52 for (i = 0; i < 10; i++) { printf ("I am getting called over and over\n"); } 18:42:56 for (i = 0; i < 10000; i++) { printf ("I am getting called over and over\n"); } 18:43:00 which uses more memory? 18:43:09 i understand 18:43:19 good 18:43:32 it is about drscheme 18:43:38 what is about drscheme? 18:43:45 as we know pretty big and mred use applicitive order 18:43:53 lazy scheme use normal order 18:44:21 I didn't know that 18:44:22 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:44:31 I don't use "pretty big" or "lazy scheme" 18:44:32 okey 18:44:39 hmm 18:44:44 what are you using 18:44:49 I'm not even sure what "applicative order" and "normal order" are, although I assume I knew at one point. 18:44:52 I use mzscheme 18:45:01 that's like Drscheme with "module language" 18:45:04 Time to review SICP, offby1! 18:45:06 rudybot: eval (banner) 18:45:06 offby1: ; Value: "Welcome to MzScheme v4.1.1 [3m], Copyright (c) 2004-2008 PLT Scheme Inc.\n" 18:45:12 Riastradh: it's always time to review SICP 18:45:19 this explains why I get so little done around the house 18:46:15 offby1, you said however, you can use recursion to do all your iteration, if you want. 18:46:22 can you give an exampple ? 18:46:30 or explain clearly 18:46:43 actually i am newbie in recursive and iterative manner 18:46:58 no way I'm gonna explain it better than SICP 18:47:03 except SICP isn't in Turkish 18:47:05 hmm 18:47:34 void recurse(int k) { if (k == 10) return; else { printf("I am getting called over and over\n"); recurse(k + 1); } } 18:47:37 I was just thinking "I wish there was a turkish version of SICP chapter 1" 18:47:39 heh 18:47:58 ehehe 18:48:12 speaking of SICP 18:48:17 actually i dont know exatly 18:48:25 any idea why these assignments associated with the book use "princ" instead of "print"? 18:48:27 how i do iterative call 18:48:29 what the heck is a princ? 18:48:30 rudybot: eval (define (repeat N thunk) (when (positive? N) (thunk) (repeat (sub1 N) thunk))) 18:48:36 in java and c it s easy and python 18:48:36 rudybot: eval (repeat 4 (lambda () (printf "Yow~n"))) 18:48:37 offby1: ; stdout: "Yow\nYow\nYow\nYow\n" 18:48:41 -!- Lemon [n=karl@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 18:48:49 it is easy 18:48:56 (let f ((i 0)) (when (< i 10) (display "da!\n") (f (+ i 1)))) 18:48:58 hellues: that's iteration-via-recursion 18:49:03 but i cant know how i write an iterative function 18:49:04 leppie: that too 18:49:22 hellues: we just gave you two examples 18:49:31 yeah i see 18:49:33 or did you mean, iterative _without_ using recursion? 18:49:37 that's the way i 'snapped' it 18:49:47 that is iterative alsa recursive right 18:50:04 ijust use iterative 18:50:04 in some sense, it's impossible to write iteration in scheme without using recursion. 18:50:15 hmm 18:50:16 who here knows how to use "do"? I don't :-| 18:50:28 i never use it either :| 18:50:35 I suspect most people don't 18:50:41 do, or do not; there is no try/catch 18:51:10 you said it's impossible to write iteration in scheme without using recursion. what is the reason ? 18:51:21 because most schemes use recursion to implement iteration :) 18:51:37 so even if you write (do 10 something) it will compile into a recursive function 18:51:38 the reason you do functional programming 18:51:43 but that's not an important point 18:51:48 (and probably isn't always true anyway) 18:51:51 is reason about functional programming ? 18:51:53 well, the way the R5RS (and presumably R6RS) specify things, implementing an iterative process via tail recursion would have the same sort of space behavior as an iterative process using a looping construct in traditional languages 18:53:12 otimizing calls prevents large memory usage ? 18:53:27 yes!! 18:53:32 ihmm 18:53:43 particularly when the calls are _tail_ calls, and you're doing tail recursion. 18:54:06 tail calls is always better than recursion right 18:54:12 OceanSpray [n=karl@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:54:15 tail recursion alsa iterative ? 18:54:20 also* 18:54:28 i think the important thing i took away from SICP is that an iterative process is simply one in which the arguments to the function define the entire state of the process 18:54:33 wrt to iteration/recursion 18:54:40 tail recusion is conceptually like iteration 18:55:14 hmm 18:55:23 tail recursion is better 18:55:28 in drscheme 18:55:48 hellues: if you're familiar with assembly language, you can think of tail recursion as just a jump to the beginning of the function, it uses no extra memory (as in stack) 18:56:05 hmm 18:56:21 actually which language is assembeler language 18:56:26 i dont know the answer 18:57:35 and why c and python never call optimizing call ? What does drscheme do "optimizing calls" 18:57:48 or goto in C 18:57:56 -!- OceanSpray [n=karl@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:58:00 C and Python have built-in special-purpose iteration, so they don't need to optimize tail callus. 18:58:01 calls. 18:58:17 presumably, that optimization is difficult, or else they'd already be doing it. 18:59:03 what you mean with special purpose iteration 18:59:08 Python has no excuse. 18:59:09 does wikipedia say this ? 18:59:12 funny enough the .NET runtime has tail call support :) 18:59:25 C has the excuse that many programs rely on stack allocation that interferes with proper tail recursion. 18:59:56 can someone say what special purpose iteration is ? 19:00:26 C's `for' loop is a special-purpose iteration construct. 19:00:26 any form of loop control, like for, do, while... 19:00:37 hmm 19:00:45 i understand 19:03:02 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:03:23 actually the reason recursion is iterative memory usage ? 19:03:25 sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-250-232.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:03:43 OceanSpray [n=karl@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:03:47 -!- besiria`` [n=user@ppp083212086175.dsl.uom.gr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:11:44 woot 19:11:47 mzscheme has printf 19:12:40 although i have no idea what the format args mean 19:12:43 but it seems to be doing stuff 19:12:44 hahaha 19:13:24 ~a ~s ~d ~o ~x ~b 19:20:25 -!- impeachgod_ [n=Long@195.64.148.162] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:20:57 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 19:32:31 god i thought this window was the repl 19:32:37 you almost got a faceful of s-exps 19:33:52 delamarche: roughly similar to C's printf, but with ~ instead of % 19:34:09 That's what i thought, but ~d didn't seem to parse 19:34:14 i probably did something ignorant 19:35:35 Here's a question 19:35:46 the body of a let statement has to be a single s-exp, correct? 19:36:05 nope 19:36:12 specbot: r5rs let 19:36:19 rudybot: eval (let ((a 3)) (printf "here's one~n") 33 ) 19:36:20 offby1: ; Value: 33 19:36:20 offby1: ; stdout: "here's one\n" 19:36:20 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_124 19:36:21 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/695ay7 19:36:30 oh neato 19:36:38 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:37:32 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 19:37:32 OK, it turns out i worked the way I thought it did 19:37:36 i'm just doing something... wrong. 19:37:40 woo. 19:39:39 -!- ecraven [n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net] has quit ["bbl"] 19:39:54 unpossible 19:43:31 louzer_ [n=edwin@nusnet-192-118.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 19:43:31 -!- louzer [n=edwin@nusnet-192-118.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:50:49 hellues pasted "fold-left" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68767 19:51:21 i took function from sicp.But that doesnt work as that needs to work 19:51:24 why is that 19:54:04 offby1 annotated #68767 with "hellues" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68767#1 19:55:23 muahuhahahah sicp wrong :D 19:55:41 unlikely 19:55:53 no, we had this discussion the other day, didnt we? 19:56:44 but 19:56:59 sicp function fold-left doesnt work in true way 19:57:31 and anyway actually i am newbie in drscheme 19:57:52 and i dont understand while (define blah blah blah (define blah blah blah 19:58:06 wh can we use this (define..ç. (define ... 19:59:22 it is for reducing arguments 19:59:37 offby1 annotated #68767 with "how I'd do it, again" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68767#2 20:00:23 actually (define .. (define ... is not necessary 20:00:33 as my paste demonstrates. 20:01:37 hmm 20:01:48 this is meaningless i see 20:01:58 life is meaningless 20:02:27 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:02:32 HAH! 20:02:37 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:02:47 How do I go by catching divide by zero? 20:03:08 is there a way 20:03:15 it is undefined :D 20:03:16 I have no idea. 20:03:26 ok.. 20:03:37 schme: depends on the flavor of scheme 20:03:45 Bummer. :) 20:03:52 I guess Ineed to look up implementation specific stuff. 20:04:08 I was hoping there was something in that there r5rs thingie. 20:04:09 division by zero 20:04:14 it causes mistake 20:04:22 It is no mistake. 20:04:34 i use pretty big 20:04:36 I just want to handle the error and do goodness. 20:05:31 (define x 2) (define y 0)(/ x y) /: division by zero 20:05:43 Yes, of course. 20:06:02 this looks like a mistake :D 20:06:21 Well, for my specific thing it is just what I want. 20:06:32 I just want to catch the error. 20:06:37 But nevermind. :) 20:06:40 hmm 20:06:46 i just wonder :D 20:07:11 I suppose I could just do it another way. 20:07:28 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 20:07:28 hellues: I'm calculating fitness scores. 20:07:45 delamarche_ [n=delamarc@dsl-67-204-20-119.acanac.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:04 you could of course check if your denominator is zero before trying to divide. 20:09:36 Yup. 20:09:58 That's what I'm doing. I was just curious if there was some standard way to handle errors :) 20:10:01 are you trying to write a library that's portable across multiple Schemes? 20:10:13 Oh no, not at all. Just playing around to learn scheme. 20:10:19 "a standard way to handle errors"? Ha! 20:10:23 Well.. 20:10:28 the other lisp has HANDLER-BIND ;) 20:10:39 BAAAAHAHAHAHAH HaHAHAA HA HA HHHHA AH *snort* HA HHA HAHAHA HA HAH HAH HAH HAHAH HAH HAH oh man HAH AH HAAAAA HAAAHHH *cough* *cough* *cough* hah hehhh hehhhhh geez.. *cough* 20:10:59 a _standard_ he wants. Oh how droll. 20:11:04 *offby1* dissolves 20:11:19 Sure. I like standards. 20:11:32 I'll put it on my r7rs wishlist. 20:11:56 The great thing about standards is there are so many to choose from. -- Andrew Tannenbaum 20:12:07 mbishop_: damn you kid; you _JUST beat me with that one. 20:12:09 still got it 20:12:13 -!- delamarche [n=delamarc@CPE000f3d3d958f-CM0011aea4a834.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:12:20 *offby1* throws his dentures at mbishop_ , just on general principles 20:12:30 eeeeew. 20:12:37 Every time I drive through Yorktown, I throw my dentures at mbishop_, just on general principles. 20:12:45 A shiny penny to the first person to get the reference. 20:12:49 *offby1* starts an egg timer 20:13:04 *chandler* will not be claiming a shiny penny 20:13:31 hellues pasted "reverse" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68769 20:13:46 offby1, what do you say about my reverse function 20:13:52 I say: yikes. 20:13:53 that doesnt give true result 20:13:54 it's ugly :-| 20:13:59 "reverse" is easy 20:13:59 how can i fix that 20:14:00 :D 20:14:14 i am very newbie actually rookie 20:14:20 (define (reverse seq) (fold-left cons ' () seq)) 20:14:25 damn those spaces 20:14:37 i dont wonna use fold-left 20:14:45 fold-left actually is reverse 20:14:52 why not? fold-left is groovy 20:14:54 :D 20:15:07 plus you've already written it! Why make extra work for yourself? 20:15:28 i explain 20:15:32 just a second 20:15:45 "because your professor says you can't" :) 20:16:30 hellues pasted "reverse" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68770 20:16:38 look here 20:16:51 *offby1* looks 20:17:04 *offby1* 's eyes bleed 20:17:09 waaay too complex 20:17:15 it hurts to look at! 20:17:17 what my prefosor wants i never will know 20:17:35 which one is complex 20:17:53 annd i need to learn everthing 20:18:04 because in next teerm we will use plai scheme 20:18:27 and we write interpreter just similar to dr scheme`s interpreter 20:19:53 well, not _too_ similar. 20:19:59 A _little_ simpler, I would expect. 20:21:30 i have no idead 20:21:33 i have no idea 20:21:37 hellues: reverse-other looks right. 20:21:41 how can i fix my reverse function 20:21:52 I don't think "reverse-other" is wrong. 20:21:56 i know reverse order is fine 20:22:00 And you can fix "reverse-other-2" by deleting it :) 20:22:05 there are (define (define 20:22:16 i wonna use (define (define 20:22:22 i wonna use (define 20:22:28 oh, that's hard 20:23:09 aneither i learn (define instead of (define (define or i understand what is the reason of (define (define 20:23:16 wihich one is easy 20:23:24 offby1 annotated #68770 with "helleus: without internal "define"" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68770#1 20:23:32 oops, spelled your nick wrong 20:23:33 oh well 20:23:47 pretty much the same thing, though 20:23:53 not much reason to prefer one over the other 20:24:34 let loop ((items items) 20:24:35 (result '())) i dont know actually let loop 20:24:48 now you do! 20:24:51 you said to result 20:25:01 I can't think of any other way to do it, without using (define (define 20:25:03 go until list is null 20:25:21 yes 20:25:53 (let loop ((items items) what does this mean 20:26:17 this is like for(i=0;i more or less. 20:27:38 it creates a procedure named "loop" 20:27:44 ha 20:27:56 you do result equals to items 20:28:07 and go until items is null 20:28:50 (loop (cdr items) 20:28:57 and this is actually i++ 20:29:01 in for loop 20:29:07 is it ? 20:30:03 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-83-187-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 20:30:20 vasa [n=vasa@mm-83-187-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 20:31:54 more or less, yes. 20:32:42 hmm 20:33:00 i guess in order to learn i use som much 20:33:05 for getting used 20:35:55 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-8-2.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:36:49 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-21-193.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 20:42:48 proqesi [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 20:53:06 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05727C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:54:22 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:57:45 -!- louzer_ [n=edwin@nusnet-192-118.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [] 21:06:24 louzer [n=edwin@nusnet-181-251.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 21:08:04 -!- louzer [n=edwin@nusnet-181-251.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Client Quit] 21:16:49 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-9-239.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 21:19:36 tizoc__ [n=user@r190-135-63-118.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 21:19:49 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-83-187-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 21:20:29 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-21-193.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:20:35 -!- tizoc__ is now known as tizoc 21:20:38 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 21:21:23 kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43095.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 21:25:01 ecraven [n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net] has joined #scheme 21:25:32 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:37:17 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-9-239.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:39:37 -!- sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-250-232.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 21:39:58 how can i call this function 21:40:07 (define (flatmap proc seq) 21:40:07 (accumulate append null (map proc seq))) pls help me :D 21:40:50 (apply append (map proc seq)) 21:41:19 sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-250-232.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:41:26 -!- sm [n=sm@pool-71-107-250-232.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:41:43 some Schemes have a "flatmap" or similar function that does just that 21:41:49 possibly more efficiently 21:42:12 yeah there is 21:42:31 but what is flatmap how can i write this 21:42:40 leppie: just told you :) 21:44:49 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["beep bop"] 21:45:07 how can i call this flatmap function pls help me 21:45:11 and what is flatmap 21:45:21 what do you want to flatten? 21:45:57 normally i would write flatten as (define (flatten lst)(apply append lst)) 21:46:01 sure 21:46:13 so do you want to flatten the input, or output? 21:46:20 I assume hellues is doing homework, and hence isn't allowed to solve these problems in the obvious way :) 21:46:46 (define obvious #t) 21:46:54 whats wrong with obvious? :p 21:46:58 actually 21:47:10 i write programs for finding triples 21:47:23 1 3 5 3 5 7 etc. 21:47:37 and i found a code 21:47:44 i try to understand this :D 21:53:20 any info :D 21:55:54 don't understand your quesiton 21:55:58 question 21:57:02 hmm 21:57:13 i try to do sicp exercise 21:57:25 it wants me to find triples 21:57:36 i find a code and i try to understand 21:57:45 but i cant understand flatmap 21:57:53 what is flatp map how can i run it 21:58:11 i am searching flatmap on google but i couldnt find anything 21:58:23 gosh, so you did not even write the code and can't understand the supplied, ready answer. 21:58:26 -!- ecraven [n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net] has quit ["bbl"] 21:58:37 no 21:58:39 it's not a question, it's a headless chicken quest. 21:59:21 actually not because i didnt find any algorithm ad i try to learn this it is actually important for me 21:59:37 i try to just learn 22:00:12 which exercise is it? 22:00:58 2.41 22:01:31 really i try to learn.this is not for doing homework 22:01:41 actually this is not homework anyway 22:03:16 here's one guy's solution: http://community.schemewiki.org/?sicp-ex-2.41 22:03:45 yes 22:03:48 i know it 22:04:07 but i dont understand flatmap 22:05:11 what is flatmap :D 22:05:49 (define (flatmap proc seq) (apply append (map proc seq))) 22:05:52 that is flatmap. 22:06:20 yeah 22:06:25 how can i call it 22:06:39 (flatmap blah blah) what is proc and seq 22:06:58 rudybot: eval (begin (define (flatmap proc seq) (apply append (map proc seq)) (flatmap (lambda (x) (+ 100 x)) (list 1 2 3 4))) 22:06:59 offby1: error: eval:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 22:07:01 oops 22:07:04 rudybot: eval (begin (define (flatmap proc seq) (apply append (map proc seq)) (flatmap (lambda (x) (+ 100 x)) (list 1 2 3 4)))) 22:07:16 *offby1* drums fingers 22:07:25 rudybot: eval (begin (define (flatmap proc seq) (apply append (map proc seq))) (flatmap (lambda (x) (+ 100 x)) (list 1 2 3 4))) 22:07:25 offby1: error: append: expected argument of type ; given 103 22:07:47 hm 22:07:52 :D 22:08:40 (lambda (x) (list x (+ 100 x))) 22:08:44 rudybot: eval (define (flatmap proc seq) (apply append (map proc seq))) 22:08:47 rudybot: eval (flatmap (lambda (x) (list (add1 x) x (sub1 x))) (list 1 2 3 4)) 22:08:47 eli: ; Value: (2 1 0 3 2 1 4 3 2 5 4 3) 22:08:58 But even better: 22:09:04 thanks 22:09:05 rudybot: eval (append-mapr (lambda (x) (list (add1 x) x (sub1 x))) (list 1 2 3 4)) 22:09:05 eli: error: reference to undefined identifier: append-mapr 22:09:10 rudybot: eval (append-map (lambda (x) (list (add1 x) x (sub1 x))) (list 1 2 3 4)) 22:09:10 eli: ; Value: (2 1 0 3 2 1 4 3 2 5 4 3) 22:09:25 rudybot: eval (let ((flatmap (lambda (proc seq) (apply append (map proc seq))))) (flatmap (lambda (l) (map (lambda (x) (+ 3 x)))) '((1 2 3) (3 4 5))) 22:09:25 sladegen: error: eval:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 22:09:30 (that is, it's already in, as `append-map') 22:09:30 pretty hard to compose in IRC. 22:09:32 heh 22:09:38 I gotta switch to my *scheme* buffer to get anything done 22:09:56 eli: I think he's doing SICP and wants to stay "pure" 22:10:15 bah. 22:10:22 yeah :) 22:10:29 rudybot: eval (append-map (lambda (x) (list (add1 x) (list (list x)) (sub1 x))) (list 1 2 3 4)) 22:10:30 eli: ; Value: (2 ((1)) 0 3 ((2)) 1 4 ((3)) 2 5 ((4)) 3) 22:10:36 actually 22:10:40 rudybot: eval (flatten (map (lambda (x) (list (add1 x) (list (list x)) (sub1 x))) (list 1 2 3 4))) 22:10:40 eli: ; Value: (2 1 0 3 2 1 4 3 2 5 4 3) 22:10:44 i need an explanation of flatmap 22:10:51 because 22:10:59 i need to learn 22:11:43 for example 22:11:44 allnmymi` [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279680047.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 22:11:47 -!- Dark-Star [i=Darkstar@p57B53F11.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:12:08 map takes a function and a list that applies function each element of list one by one 22:12:37 but i dont know the explanation of flatmap 22:14:05 hellues: I'm pretty noobish too, but it looks like flatmap expects to get a list result from the function each element has been applied to. All those lists are then given to append as argument 22:15:23 still i dont know what flatmap is and i cant find anything from google 22:15:52 really i couldnt find anything about flatmap 22:16:12 ok.. It flattens the result of a normal map ? :) 22:16:22 hellues: flatmap turns '((foo ...) (bar ...) (ghah ...)) into (foo ... bar ... ghah) 22:16:26 that's all... 22:16:48 ghah ...) even 22:17:10 ohah 22:17:22 it is like compose 22:17:23 :D 22:19:02 no it's not like "compose" 22:19:09 hmm 22:19:26 how can i call flatmap 22:19:37 it's also doing transformations in lists using map... 22:20:32 hmm 22:20:42 you can say all off scheme is like 'compose', because it uses paradigma of higher order functions through and through. 22:20:53 hmm 22:21:00 how can i call flat map 22:21:18 (flatmap '(1 3 4) '(4 5 6)) 22:21:31 or (flatmap + '(1 3 5)) 22:21:35 now work 22:21:41 we've given you at least two examples... 22:21:52 offby1 pasted "SICP exercise 2.41" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68777 22:22:04 warning: may contain trace amounts of PLT-ism 22:22:06 yeah but i dont wonna use lambda :D 22:22:10 *offby1* slaps hellues upside the haid 22:22:13 lambda good 22:22:27 i actually cant get used lambda :d 22:22:33 i cant use lambda :XD 22:23:06 then define your auxilary procedures and pass them by name. 22:23:52 offby1, what is positive-less 22:24:06 your ppaste doesnt have positive-less 22:24:32 ? 22:24:47 oops, you're right 22:24:56 just change that to positives-no-greater-than 22:25:17 *sladegen* slaps offby1 with explicitness club. 22:26:56 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 22:27:17 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:27:57 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 22:28:55 :-( 22:29:19 offby1, 22:29:23 (ex-2.41 1 5) 22:29:23 () 22:30:13 offby1 annotated #68777 with "tested and everything" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68777#1 22:32:07 offby1, 22:32:13 but there is a point 22:32:20 lisppaste, url 22:32:20 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 22:33:01 so i'm looking at the r5rs standard 22:33:06 and i found 'map' and 'for-each' 22:33:11 but i'm not seeing anything like fold or reduce 22:33:21 hellues pasted "ira" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68779 22:33:36 offby1, 22:33:40 delamarche_: that's correct. 22:33:41 pls look at 22:33:44 R5RS is pretty minimal 22:33:55 Argh. 22:34:11 hellues: I think () is the right answer. What do you think? 22:34:40 hmm 22:35:12 yeah i see 22:35:14 sorry 22:35:47 what is the difference between map and flatmap 22:36:41 why dont i find anything about flatmap from google D 22:37:04 hellues: I've told you at least once what "flatmap" is. 22:37:08 delamarche_: srfi-1 22:37:15 I even wrote the code for you. What could be clearer? 22:37:51 calling 911? 22:37:57 just a second 22:38:54 delamarche_: also princ probably has something to do with history like car/cdr. 22:39:07 clhs princ 22:39:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_pr.htm 22:39:11 sladegen: Thanks :) 22:39:23 I'm trying to figure out how to use require in mzscheme so i can import srfi-1 22:39:24 hahaha 22:39:28 bigtime newbie here 22:39:42 cool link! 22:40:58 woot 22:40:59 perhaps there was 5 char limit on variable names in fortran? or something similarly silly like 8.3 dos names. 22:41:17 google is useless on flatmap !!! 22:42:04 sladegen: Isn't that sort of how Scheme got its name? :) 22:42:19 exactomundo 22:42:25 yay trivia 22:42:49 damn google 22:42:52 good night 22:42:59 thanks for help 22:43:04 delamarche_: (require srfi/1) 22:43:27 Hm that's not how i did it and it worked. I'm going to try your way. 22:44:20 Yeah that doesn't work, I get an 'unknown module' error. 22:44:25 I did (require (lib "list.ss" "SRFI" "1")) 22:44:32 delamarche_: what I said is how it should be done on v4, which is more convenient than what you may have found (probably something like (require (lib "1.ss" "srfi")), which is pre-v4) 22:44:43 Aha! 22:44:52 Upgrade to the recent version. 22:45:24 Will do. I forgot that I downloaded PLT ages ago 22:45:28 I only started using it recently 22:45:42 eli: fya - I just enabled most of the Nurbs support in sgl/gl. This was a sophisticated act of engineering on my part, consisting mostly of removing comments, fixing a couple of typos, and adding a finalized _cpointer. My cat could have done it. 22:45:47 plt-scheme needs to steal google updating technology. 22:46:44 google updating? 22:46:44 sladegen: drscheme has the ability to "check for updates" regularly, but there was opposition on the mailing list to turning it on by default. 22:47:04 Daemmerung: sounds good -- perhaps you should give credit to your cat...? 22:47:29 Daemmerung: (BTW, I suspect that the difficult part would be to have someone who knows enough to verify that it actually works.) 22:47:52 *eli* is off to the babies 22:48:24 I use my package manager to check for updates. 22:52:22 jewel: self-reference to recent reddit thread about google-update in windows reapearing magically after uninstall. 22:52:40 BW^- [i=Miranda@94.191.167.168.bredband.tre.se] has joined #scheme 22:53:01 what does google-update update? 22:53:22 google-produce(tm) 22:53:45 hehe. 22:53:58 just a general linux thing.. i have a text file with utf-8-encoded utf-8. how do i decode it so that i get the utf-8 i really want? 22:54:16 *Riastradh* blinks. 22:54:41 -!- kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43095.access.telenet.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:55:22 How did you wind up with this, BW^-? It is not clear how one `UTF-8-encodes UTF-8'. 22:55:55 you have to blink blink twice on occasion. 22:56:22 Depends on what its decoded form is, then you pretend utf8 is already decoded, and encode it again. 22:57:05 Probably something decoded a sequence of octets (intended to be interpreted as UTF-8) as a non-US-ASCII character set, mapped the code points thereby obtained into Unicode, and then UTF-8-encoded the Unicode string. 22:57:06 If the system uses utf8 as an internal format, twice encoding to utf8 would be a no-op, while twice encoding to utf16 would be total data corruption. 22:57:09 sili [n=sili@203.177.200.28] has joined #scheme 22:57:41 In other words I have no idea. 22:58:04 emma_ [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 22:58:13 `Twice encoding UTF-8' doesn't make sense -- it's a type error! 22:58:21 right. 22:58:31 Is there a "don't do anything to it" encoding? If you decoded as utf8, encoded as that, then decoded again as utf8 that would do the trick. 22:58:39 Riastradh: Not if the implementation is exposed. :/ 22:58:49 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:58:58 BW^-, was my guess about what you meant accurate? If so, you will need to specify how the non-US-ASCII code points got mapped into Unicode code points. 22:59:09 That's how a mess like this happens in the first place... 23:01:01 aka the internal format... 23:01:48 hehe. 23:02:09 i think what happened would equal to file_output(utf8_encode(file_read("file")),"file"); in php 5. 23:02:14 riastradh: right, you're right. 23:03:15 PHP sucks 23:03:51 Presumably, then, you can do file_output(utf8_decode(file_read("file")),"file"); in PHP 5, and it will undo whatever bogus transformation it applied. 23:04:04 hehe right. 23:04:09 utf8_encode should take a unicode string, and fail at a regular string returned from file_read, which it obviously does not. 23:04:16 Heh, yeah. 23:04:16 i just thought the unix "shell dsl" would have htis. 23:04:58 -!- emma_ is now known as emma 23:05:03 You're asking for a reflection of the semantics of some bogus operation (whose semantics I still don't know exactly) in some bogus language. 23:05:04 Hard to say what to do in scheme though, unless you look at the PHP source to see what it thinks is a decoded string. 23:05:58 no i didn't do this in php. my question was just, if you coincidentally would happen to know how to reverse it using standard unix commands 23:06:15 How did you do this, then? 23:06:29 i got to it in scheme, i did. 23:06:34 You still haven't said how the octets were interpreted as Unicode code points. 23:06:45 utf8_decode will produce a string (ugh) of a certain format, instead of a special marked unicode string. You need to figure out what that format is before you can figure out how to fix that file. 23:06:54 i suspect the double-encoding was made by a web server delivering xml. 23:07:30 There's lots of ways you can "twice" encode something, is what I'm saying. It could produce totally different characters depending on the internal format aka "how the code points got mapped" 23:09:39 which is why utf8_encode() should never accept a string that hasn't been decoded. 23:09:41 in whatever language 23:09:45 "accept a string" requires you define, and expose, some string format, that just makes life a hardship. 23:11:08 suppose utf8_decode returns a string... so what is that string's encoding? utf8? (define (utf8_encode s) s) 23:11:23 not a good idea 23:12:00 It would be wise to specify what kind of string you mean whenever you invoke the term; e.g., `octet string', `Unicode string', `R5RS string', &c. 23:12:20 but.. but.. looks like SFTP did this. hmm. 23:13:25 Ohh 23:13:26 That's probably a CRLF error. Does SFTP have a "text mode" transfer mode? 23:13:57 gosh, I doubt it 23:14:19 hm... no it does not. 23:14:26 Only ftp has such an awful feature. 23:15:11 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05727C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:26:45 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:28:14 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@221.234.212.221] has joined #scheme 23:28:17 ttmrichter_ [n=ttmricht@221.234.212.221] has joined #scheme 23:28:19 -!- ttmrichter_ [n=ttmricht@221.234.212.221] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:28:27 whoa 23:28:33 unfold is like the coolest thing ever 23:29:39 iconv --from-code UTF-8 --to-code ISO88591 --output x norsk.xml did the job! :D 23:30:13 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #scheme 23:30:22 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 23:31:03 certaint1 [n=closure@dslb-082-083-156-044.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 23:31:11 delamarche_: I more or less never use it. "foldl", however, is pretty cool. 23:32:12 like just vanilla fold? 23:32:45 i'm coming from a more-or-less abortive attempt to learn functional programming with ML 23:33:00 so fold isn't really all that exciting anymore :) 23:33:43 BW^-: So it was iso-8859-1 encoded internally. Hopefully that won't get exposed again. 23:34:04 no no 23:34:11 that resultant file in turn is utf-8. 23:35:41 Yes it is, but the secret underlying encoding was iso8859-1, which was why you needed to add that --to-code option. 23:36:41 I dunno, it's all confusing to me. I'm probably wrong. 23:37:29 What just kills me is this: You encode A to utf8, then you encode B to latin1, then you concatenate those two resulting strings and save it to a file...what do you decode the contents of the file with? 23:37:53 human 23:38:40 heh 23:39:27 "I'll comment on this blog. Oh hey I'm ethnic! I'll post in a different encoding than the last guy!" 23:40:39 delamarche_: dude, unfold made my month 23:41:02 Yeah it's totally awesome 23:41:11 I usually get pretty excited by anything that generates stuff 23:41:14 lol 23:42:15 when i got my hands on list comprehensions in python... well, it was a frabjous moment, let me tell you 23:43:00 cromulent 23:43:08 hehe. 23:43:14 -!- hellues [n=hellues@78.183.199.224] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:43:46 embiggening, even. 23:43:58 Wait... get-argb-pixels in bitmap%, is that RGBA, or ARGB? 23:44:04 -!- certainty [n=closure@dslb-082-083-132-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:45:07 -!- mbishop_ is now known as mbishop 23:46:03 btw i'm amazed to see Lisp humor in XKCD.com 23:47:38 why amazed? 23:58:50 i appreciate it 23:59:10 it has depth to it 23:59:23 -!- Jarv2 is now known as JHVH