00:07:50 -!- fnordb [i=c7aca924@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-15e562b0788c416d] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 00:15:40 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:17:40 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 00:18:08 -!- BW^- [i=Miranda@79.138.209.19.bredband.tre.se] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 00:28:32 Trinithis [n=Trinithi@fre-74-236.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:29:03 How can I force an expression to be evaluated before it is passed into a macro? 00:31:29 nevermind 00:31:33 -!- Trinithis [n=Trinithi@fre-74-236.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 00:31:46 *sladegen* bahs. 00:33:05 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133117089.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:37:19 -!- keyofnight [n=key@ec2-75-101-138-129.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:42:59 how can i run an external file inside another? 00:43:15 like the load function or whatever 00:46:59 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [] 00:48:33 figured it 00:56:12 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:59:20 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 01:07:50 aoeuid__ [n=aoeuid@WL-37.CINE.HMC.Edu] has joined #scheme 01:09:43 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit ["The incensed priests...continued to raise their voices, vituperating each other in bad Latin"] 01:10:39 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:15:20 amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-81-104.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 01:20:03 bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable006.84-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:24:23 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:24:31 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 01:29:08 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:29:37 Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 01:36:27 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-14-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 01:37:32 xhanjian [n=Jan@218.109.73.157] has joined #scheme 01:42:06 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-1e6a808a915f4994] has joined #scheme 01:47:09 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-201-22.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:48:15 annodomini_ [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:53:06 Hello, y'all. 01:54:10 sodio [n=sodio@netblock-63-66-64-29.myitdepartment.net] has joined #scheme 01:54:26 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-19-179.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:56:14 underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 02:00:53 *Daemmerung* grunts amiably 02:03:06 *arcfide* buys Daemmerung his choice of poison. 02:04:56 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:08:53 ...say, friend, you got any more of that good sarsaparilla? 02:09:04 yezhao [n=yezhao@202.96.19.49] has joined #scheme 02:11:49 mornin' ladies 02:13:32 Howdy. 02:18:59 can someone help me with map 02:19:11 Maybe. 02:19:18 North is up. 02:19:38 sili_ [n=sili@222.127.173.140] has joined #scheme 02:20:13 NaNO2x: What's the map problem? 02:20:42 i'm trying to make a differentiation program 02:21:00 paticularly the diff-sum rule, i need it to handle more than two entries 02:21:05 and apparently map is the way 02:21:24 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:22:49 what's the hotness for OO in scheme? 02:23:15 CLOS? 02:23:43 ? 02:23:53 ? 02:24:21 what do you mean clos 02:24:47 an implementation of CLOS. 02:24:58 NaNO2x: Ok.. so what is the map problem? 02:25:20 sili_: It seems to me that there are quite a few different object systems floating around. 02:25:33 schme: indeed :( 02:25:58 I seem to remember hearing something about some CLOS-like thing. 02:26:26 whatabot 02:27:22 Hmmm maybe I dreamt it all. 02:28:03 any opinions on tiny-clos? 02:28:11 sili_: What implementation are you using? 02:28:19 I personally don't like to use an OO system for most things. 02:28:23 arcfide: petite (chez) 02:28:41 sili_: SWL has an object system of sorts. 02:29:16 sili_: If that doesn't suit, then I am sure any of the portable OO systems would work. I would probably go with a tiny-clos type setup myself. 02:29:42 sili_: But if you just want to play with an object system with minimal fuss, SWL's object system would work. 02:29:50 http://community.schemewiki.org/?object-systems 02:29:50 I'm just scared I'll start using an implementation and end up stabbing myself in the face later 02:30:06 sili_: I wouldn't worry about that. 02:30:31 sili_: you only have to worry about stabbing yourself in the face if you're an EE with a soldering iron 02:30:57 that's when poor impulse control will hurt you 02:31:39 terrifying. 02:32:20 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:32:57 Anyone run PLT Scheme under Cygwin? 02:33:15 LOL 02:33:24 GAG 02:33:24 grettke: Is the Windows version not enough? 02:33:41 That would have to be a very painful thing to do. 02:34:13 that is also terrifying 02:34:40 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:34:41 grettke: You sure pick the darnedest things to do with Scheme. :-) 02:34:51 arcfide: Thank you 02:37:08 -!- yezhao [n=yezhao@202.96.19.49] has quit ["leaving"] 02:40:06 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-231-47.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 02:41:10 NaNO2x pasted "differentiation" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68667 02:41:33 k, so i've figured out how to use map on sum, but now it's breaking the things that were using sum 02:43:22 n3li7e [n=Neil@98.223.199.215] has joined #scheme 02:43:38 NaNO2x: how so? That's a lengthy paste (nb "define (first e) (cadr e)" threw me initially for a loop) - can you elucidate? 02:44:00 -!- n3li7e [n=Neil@98.223.199.215] has left #scheme 02:44:07 whatcha mean threw you into a loop? 02:44:09 n3li7e [n=Neil@98.223.199.215] has joined #scheme 02:44:31 first is a freq. syn. for car; second, for cadr; usw. 02:44:52 right 02:44:54 what about that? 02:45:41 nothing about that if you're never going to write Scheme after this class of yours. but the q was, what's your q? Not obv to the casual obs how map on sum is breaking things that were using sum. 02:46:18 -!- n3li7e [n=Neil@98.223.199.215] has quit [Client Quit] 02:47:41 ok, so map takes in the stuff for make-sum 02:47:56 and diff-product uses make-sum 02:47:58 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:48:05 but i had to use a cons instead of a list so it breaks it 02:48:10 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-6-115.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 02:49:07 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@221.235.62.134] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:49:46 Still not following you, sorry. 02:49:58 Well this was confusing. 02:50:29 Do you mean that you have to change the arity of make-sum? 02:50:33 s/have/had 02:51:15 yes, because make-sum had to be able to do (+ 1 2 3) instead of just (+ 1 2) 02:51:45 So again, what's your problem? 02:51:55 I thought it was a question about map? 02:52:19 well i think i need to use map now to make product work again 02:52:36 I'm still trying to figure out what the question might be. Inchoate roars of rage are ok, too, so long as we know that's what's up.... 02:52:42 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-231-47.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:53:12 I still say that with map, the way to go is up is north. 02:53:45 ? 02:54:02 Nevermind :) 02:54:14 NaNO2x: Seriously though. What's the question here? :) 02:54:18 *schme_* makes more tea. 02:54:26 i need to make diff-product to work 02:54:37 *Daemmerung* returns to chopping mustard greens 02:54:58 the problem is that right now it's trying to send two things into a cons 02:55:17 Isn't that normal? 02:55:32 (cons 1 2) ? 02:55:36 sorry 02:55:38 i meant 3 02:55:42 Ok. 02:55:56 I guess you need to do something else then :) 02:57:17 *sigh* 02:57:32 i can hack around it but i'd prefer an elegant solution 02:57:44 Great. 02:58:42 See personally I can't quite be bothered to actually read the whole paste there and myself figure out just what is going on, so for me it'd be great if you had a good question that was not "how do I make this code work?" ;) 02:59:00 Why cansho use list for the make-sum then? 03:00:23 I'm looking at PLT scheme and all the GUI stuff looks useful for development and debugging, but when it comes to deploying my application I need it to run on the command line - is that an option with PLT? 03:00:53 because a list on makesum turns it into (+ (0 1 1 2 3)) instead of (+ 0 1 1 2 3) 03:01:07 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-14-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:02:12 elmex_ [n=elmex@e180066137.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:05:02 oh. I see. 03:05:35 NaNO2x: Oh! 03:06:24 sili_: what do you mean by "run on the command line"? Do you mean that you want build automation? 03:06:26 NaNO2x: how about (cons '+ '(0 1 1 2 3)) 03:07:13 well it's not a matter of '(list) it's a matter of consing '+ item over and over 03:07:41 ? 03:08:22 I'm not following you here. Sorry. 03:08:45 Thank god I'm not the only one. 03:09:28 I'm not even quite sure what consing '+ over and over means :) 03:09:33 Daemmerung: I mean I don't want all the GUI stuff when I deploy my application. but I guess I was misunderstanding how stuff works. mzscheme is the core which I would use directly to deploy my application. plt/dr won't necessarily be a dependency 03:09:42 it's a web app 03:09:42 -!- grnman [n=grnman@c-76-110-165-179.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:10:10 hmm 03:10:14 i suppose that will work for now 03:10:25 sili_: if you write to scheme/base or scheme and don't (require mred) etc., you won't drag the GUI gunk into your thang. 03:10:39 got it 03:10:56 Mr. Ed. hmmm 03:15:22 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:17:42 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180067191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:17:44 -!- elmex_ is now known as elmex 03:21:20 -!- moonfart [n=moonfart@199.2.121.90] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:22:09 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:22:20 sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 03:22:20 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["bedtime"] 03:23:05 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A134C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:25:19 cubix [n=cubix@CPE0013100506c1-CM001692411b42.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 03:25:56 sili [n=sili@121.96.189.226] has joined #scheme 03:27:54 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:28:33 Hey all, if I have a syntactic module form, like in Chez, and I want to use a macro to expand to a nested module call, how can I make sure that the exports are visible in the right context? 03:29:55 arcfide pasted "Strange Modules" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68670 03:29:55 -!- cubix [n=cubix@CPE0013100506c1-CM001692411b42.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:30:22 Basically, when I try to load things, I get an error that h8->64 of the othello module is not bound. 03:30:45 I am almost certain this is because the module exports othello values into the scope here, and not the scope I want, which is the run-time scope. 03:32:04 My solution was to wrap this large module form in a WITH-SYNTAX and use DATUM->SYNTAX to rebind the INCLUDEs of this module to match the scoping. This makes the bindings loaded into the othello module visible in the scope I want, but it causes the problem that the othello procedures are now not recognized as visible in the scope of the module form, meaning . . . 03:32:11 I get a missing exports error. 03:37:59 sili__ [n=sili@121.96.161.141] has joined #scheme 03:40:35 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:40:36 cubix [n=cubix@CPE0013100506c1-CM001692411b42.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 03:40:39 -!- sili_ [n=sili@222.127.173.140] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:43:54 Into what does a simple instantiation of those macros expand? 03:44:05 yhara [n=yhara@84.215.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:45:19 It should expand to the module declarations you see there, as well as an instance of (MODULE (PLAYER) (IMPORT SCHEME) (INCLUDE "PLAYER/PLAYER.SS")) for every player. 03:45:46 -!- annodomini_ [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 03:47:37 A simpler and closer to working version: 03:48:10 arcfide annotated #68670 with "Simpler Version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68670#1 03:49:20 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:49:25 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:50:25 -!- sodio [n=sodio@netblock-63-66-64-29.myitdepartment.net] has quit [] 03:55:05 -!- sili [n=sili@121.96.189.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:06:23 Ugh... 04:07:50 arcfide annotated #68670 with "This works..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68670#2 04:08:04 So...does anyone have a cleaner way of doing this? 04:08:47 Barring the obvious improvements to the nested MAPs. 04:09:45 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.49.16.113] has joined #scheme 04:11:52 You are undoubtedly stumbling into hygienic renaming. 04:12:21 Riastradh: Hehe, so, does that mean I can just use SYNTAX-RULES and I should be OKAY? 04:12:32 No, probably not. 04:12:35 Heh. 04:12:45 Really this means that I should go to bed before I become less coherent. 04:12:49 Okay, so, um...where in this terrible path did I go so wrong? 04:13:25 I mean, how did I end up with this convoluted piece of nasty goop? 04:13:53 Scratch that. I guess I just care about how I fix this nasty bit of goop. 04:15:05 -!- sm [n=sm@pool-71-104-94-23.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:25:44 arent they the same? 04:26:52 they being the 2 lists 04:27:27 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176200023.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:27:50 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176223223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:27:51 arcfide: liberal shebangs? i take it that's a mutato-interrogative 04:29:23 arcfide: sorry, interrobangs* 04:29:23 -!- cubix [n=cubix@CPE0013100506c1-CM001692411b42.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:30:21 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:31:39 point exclarrogatif 04:32:43 klutometis: I'm sorry, I do not know what you mean. 04:32:50 leppie: Are you talking to me? 04:33:03 yes arcfide :) 04:33:17 About what are you talking? 2 Lists? 04:33:38 the 2 literal 'lists' of identifiers 04:33:51 Oh, yes. 04:33:53 They are. 04:33:56 well the 'prefix' anyways 04:34:28 I could of course collaps and cleanup the MAPs. I was hoping for some cleaner, nicer way of acheiving the result I want. 04:35:25 It seems very nasty to me that I should do a bunch of list operations on my module form and then just DATUM->SYNTAX the whole thing in the scope I want. 04:39:38 cubix [n=cubix@CPE0013100506c1-CM001692411b42.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:41:10 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:42:02 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 04:44:48 sili [n=sili@121.97.217.4] has joined #scheme 04:46:21 -!- yhara [n=yhara@84.215.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:50:36 can someone take a look at this error i can't figure out the problem, i mean i know what it's saying but i've traced it back and the error should be impossible 04:50:37 simplify::2105: car: expects argument of type ; given x 04:51:17 -!- xhanjian [n=Jan@218.109.73.157] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:51:41 NaNO2: Where is your code? 04:52:43 nvm i backtraced it and think i know WHERE the problem is 04:53:35 dum de dum 04:54:11 -!- amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-81-104.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit ["Farewell"] 04:54:41 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:55:09 dish 04:55:22 hey leppie 04:55:26 lo duncanm 04:55:37 sili_ [n=sili@121.96.161.167] has joined #scheme 04:56:15 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit ["Smoove out."] 04:56:21 off to work 04:57:00 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:57:02 -!- sili [n=sili@121.97.217.4] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:57:25 -!- sili__ [n=sili@121.96.161.141] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:58:32 i just found the backrace in dr. scheme...awesome, no more doing that by hand 04:59:07 that is kind of awesome. pink highlighting! 05:02:16 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 05:05:44 sm [n=sm@pool-71-104-94-23.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:08:44 -!- sm [n=sm@pool-71-104-94-23.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:09:38 sm [n=sm@pool-71-104-94-23.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:21:08 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:21:25 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:24:21 Mein [i=Mein@D-69-91-149-35.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #scheme 05:24:41 Hey guys 05:25:04 Can someone please tell me how to print the result of calling a procedure, within a larger string statement? 05:25:11 I've been trying 05:25:24 Mein: what scheme are you using? 05:25:25 (display "test " (function x y)) 05:25:37 PLT R5RS 05:25:55 arcfide: i just meant that you're fond of the "!?" idiom, and i found it bizarre 05:26:03 what does it signify: interrogative mutation? 05:26:08 heh 05:26:09 hey klutometis 05:26:20 duncanm: hey, man; time for hacking lately? 05:26:28 klutometis: yeah, working on edwin48 05:26:47 nice; weren't you working on font lock OUAT? 05:27:03 klutometis: i was working on the terminal driver 05:27:05 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 05:27:10 Any ideas? 05:27:18 klutometis: now that that's done, i'm moving onward to other input stuff 05:27:18 duncanm: interesting 05:27:52 rudybot: eval (format #t "harro, mein ~A" '(freunds)) 05:27:55 -!- rudybot [n=luser@li11-10.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:28:03 rudybot: eval (format "harro, mein ~A" '(freunds)) 05:28:15 Mein: oh well; format should work, though 05:28:18 it's like printf 05:28:31 ~A stands for %s, etc. 05:28:33 PLT scheme has printf too, but maybe not in the R5RS language 05:29:58 format isn't in R5RS. 05:30:00 oh ok 05:30:13 I just am wanting to print test case results 05:30:13 format is in SRFI-28 05:30:15 so for example 05:30:15 -!- sm [n=sm@pool-71-104-94-23.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:30:25 Print 05:30:37 (begin (display "left") (display (+ 2 3)) (display "right") (display #\newline)) 05:30:44 "(test x 1) => " 05:30:53 do what Daemmerung said, or use SRFI-28 05:31:17 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:31:41 or srfi-48, for that matter 05:31:42 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-6-115.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:31:49 Mein: looks like a macro waiting to be written. Generally, R5RS is the "you have to write it all yourself. Have fun in your homework!" language level of PLT. 05:32:12 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-11-17.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 05:33:32 Ok I tried that 05:33:34 and it worked 05:33:51 except I keep getting a heap of lines stating "<#void>" 05:34:17 Oh 05:34:18 nevermind 05:34:24 I think I know why that is happening 05:34:25 Thanks guys! 05:34:42 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["strawberry"] 05:34:52 -!- vincenz [n=arli@li23-146.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:34:54 vincenz [n=arli@li23-146.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 05:35:33 -!- Mein [i=Mein@D-69-91-149-35.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [] 05:42:26 r2q2 [n=user@c-71-228-37-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:44:42 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 05:50:21 specbot: r5rs dynamic-wind 05:50:21 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_576 05:50:54 -!- sili_ [n=sili@121.96.161.167] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:51:59 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:02:23 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-160-133.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 06:02:49 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-71-228-37-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:09:34 benny [n=benny@i577A1093.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 06:32:07 borism [n=boris@allikas.gospa.ee] has joined #scheme 06:42:14 xhanjian [n=Jan@218.109.64.76] has joined #scheme 06:42:37 -!- NaNO2x [n=NaNO2x@vergil21.u.washington.edu] has left #scheme 06:51:06 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:52:09 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 07:07:09 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-124-167.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 07:14:56 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 07:18:02 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-23-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 07:21:19 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:23:07 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.104] has joined #scheme 07:34:57 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-11-17.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:36:52 incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 07:43:10 -!- incubot [n=incubot@24-205-65-135.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit ["leaving"] 07:55:01 -!- xhanjian [n=Jan@218.109.64.76] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 07:55:08 xhanjian [n=Jan@218.109.64.76] has joined #scheme 08:00:36 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:00:47 sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 08:08:34 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-162-204.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:09:56 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A01E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 08:11:47 hm 08:12:34 The plt "bitmap" library can't handle indexed pngs...or transparancy in pngs either. 08:13:23 maybe if I draw a rectangle behind it... 08:16:03 Nope. Transparant pixels are changed to opaque white. 08:16:19 indexed pngs look veritably psychadelic 8) 08:16:35 update the library ;) 08:16:57 aww, I got an old version? :( 08:17:19 It came with plt, so don't know which library... just bitmap? 08:17:19 heh 08:18:27 I got 4.0.1... latest version of plt is 4.1.1, but I try to avoid bleeding edge... 08:18:49 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:19:18 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:19:52 synx: unfortunately i have no idea, i never use plt 08:20:15 ecraven: well, no giving advice then :3 08:21:00 They've got a nice "bitmap" library, which... obviously doesn't work well on pngs. 08:21:15 oh, by update i meant go write some code that fixes the problem, not update the version of your library ;) 08:21:22 hahaha 08:21:29 minion: advice for ecraven 08:21:30 ecraven: #12000: Looking for a compiler bug is the second-to-last resort. The last resort is blaming bad RAM. It's never the correct hypothesis. 08:21:49 minion: advice for synx 08:21:50 synx: #11905: Now is the time in our program where you look at the manual. 08:22:12 That's good advice ;) 08:22:24 Maybe there's some option in the library to enable transparency or sth 08:22:26 That's always good advice. :p 08:22:31 yea 08:22:37 foof [n=user@isa7-dhcp-116-155.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 08:23:21 I think maybe... nah that would be crazy. 08:24:04 Why would you provide the pixels in RGBA format, then ignore the A and require a separate image mask for transparancy? 08:24:25 dunno 08:24:44 Maybe it's trying to load the pixels as RGB 08:24:54 That could explain the psychedelics 08:25:11 (so it sees the A of pair 1 as the R of pair 2, and shifts the other pairs) 08:25:19 synx: you have to take explicit steps to enable the alpha channel. 08:25:27 Oh, no that's the indexing and yeah it doesn't apply the palette when you request the pixels. 08:25:39 Let me just try something... 08:26:08 Hmm 08:26:40 When I load it with "unknown/mask" as a parameter, the pixels are still opaque, but now black in color. 08:33:21 -!- borism [n=boris@allikas.gospa.ee] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 08:34:25 4.1.1 is not a bleeding edge 08:34:52 *sjamaan* cuts the edge and watches it bleed 08:35:07 and mred can handle transparency, see the icons when drscheme starts. 08:37:22 -!- jao [n=user@224.Red-83-38-59.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:37:48 darnit you not only have to deal with a mask, you have to explicitly extract it when drawing. It must be RGB pixels even though there are 4 bytes per pixel and the docs say it's RGBA. 08:37:54 Has anyone here used clojure? 08:38:00 Er, ARGB 08:38:34 OH FOR THE 08:39:17 And then I read the third paragraph that says "alpha is always 255 ha ha" 08:39:59 foof: read about it, seems interesting 08:40:54 ecraven: Does it have any pros over SISC/Kawa other than gratuitously changing the syntax? 08:42:07 okay, so, sorry for making a fuss. I think I know what to do now. 08:43:54 ... and apparently has no hygienic macros... 08:44:44 foof: haven't looked that closely at it 08:45:14 It gets a _lot_ of reddit posts and seems pretty silly. 08:45:22 foof: I read somewhere it is entirely functional (no mutation) and has an STM implementation 08:45:47 No tail calls, no call/cc. 08:45:55 ugh 08:46:17 foof: why are you criticizing it for not being Scheme? It doesn't pretend to be Scheme. 08:47:25 sjamaan: It's impurely functional. 08:47:38 It is somebody's notion of a Lisp that maps well to the facilities of the JVM. 08:47:39 Skimming the docs, it looks like Schme with the interesting parts 08:47:41 removed 08:48:11 SISC and Kawa both map well to the JVM. 08:48:40 SISC does that by not compiling. Kawa compromises Scheme semantics. 08:48:52 foof: i, too, noticed clojure's exchequer of reddit-buzz 08:49:11 Daemmerung: you can compile SISC into bytecode supposedly faster than java-bytecode 08:49:34 not sure if it has its own mini-VM or what 08:49:56 *Daemmerung* is skeptical 08:50:04 The standard SISC compiler compiles to Java byte-code. 08:50:09 It's pretty fast. 08:50:26 Then SISC has come places since I last took a look at it. 08:50:35 had to use SISC for a large neural-network awhile back; scaled great 08:50:57 Daemmerung: This was maybe two years ago. 08:50:59 Once upon a time Kawa has issues with reentrant continuations and tail-calls. Is that, too, ancient history? 08:51:07 *elf* drinks a cup of java. 08:51:53 aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has joined #scheme 08:51:54 *klutometis* smells the oak that birthed that weird coffee 09:03:22 nickga [n=nickga@pc022.cs.york.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 09:05:54 keyofnight [n=key@ec2-75-101-138-129.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 09:14:54 -!- aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:15:18 -!- cubix [n=cubix@CPE0013100506c1-CM001692411b42.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:16:06 -!- aoeuid__ [n=aoeuid@WL-37.CINE.HMC.Edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:27:48 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 09:29:21 cubix [n=cubix@99.232.24.37] has joined #scheme 09:35:43 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 09:37:13 borism [n=boris@m90-137-132-46.cust.tele2.ee] has joined #scheme 09:37:50 ejs [n=eugen@80.91.178.218] has joined #scheme 09:47:02 jao [n=user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 09:58:53 http://msdn.microsoft.com/hi-in/magazine/cc163729(en-us).aspx 10:00:43 oh, gawd; the c# translation is particularly jarring 10:02:12 Oh, wait, I take that link back. 10:02:21 I posted it for the title and source. 10:02:35 But the content itself is rather short and pointless :/ 10:03:56 it confirmed my suspicion that those microsoft cats are dilettantes 10:11:14 -!- underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has quit [] 10:12:06 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-39-236.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 10:22:22 umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has joined #scheme 10:25:57 I think there are serious problems with using tail-calls in the JVM 10:26:12 to the point Sun has considered extending the JVM to support them 10:26:21 aardvarq [i=tgAardva@student3113.student.nau.edu] has joined 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15:00:45 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 15:06:33 arcfide [n=arcfide@iub-vpn-205-200.noc.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 15:06:43 lo arcfide 15:11:17 Hello leppie. 15:16:14 bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 15:20:31 BW^- [i=Miranda@79.138.222.93.bredband.tre.se] has joined #scheme 15:20:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Comparison_of_Scheme_implementations&action=edit&redlink=1 15:20:46 please go there and do something. :-) 15:26:17 Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. 15:28:08 i know, it needs to be written. 15:28:14 lol 15:28:39 come on, it's a one-working week threshold for average developer joe to get into Scheme 15:28:44 just because nobody didh thsi 15:28:52 langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 15:29:04 which should i go with, what do i dare, what do i want really, what will i get 15:29:05 etc. 15:29:05 has anyone tried the plt web server here? Today I looked at the documentation and it seems to be quite powerful. 15:29:12 maybe if there was a matrix of sorts, i would provide the info, but i dont know what other features other SCheme's have 15:29:23 haha. ok. 15:29:28 Leonidas: it does look dandy :) 15:30:08 leppie: I'm looking for something seaside-like for PLT, would that web server be a good choice? 15:30:55 specifically, see the Smalltalk code and the Scheme code: http://dresese.thehyatts.net/archives/000253.html 15:33:03 especially the anchorWithAction is something that would be interesting to me. 15:33:37 so I could write programs what have state without needing to worry about urls, state, cookies and such. 15:34:24 I don't know about plt, but Kahua for Gauche does that pretty nicely. 15:34:29 BW^-: how about "Web framework available". That one's not technical but useful these times. 15:34:33 *Daemmerung* makes more coffee 15:35:26 And it is similar to seaside I believe. 15:35:53 kuribas: thanks, I have never heard about this one. 15:36:41 Well, the documentation in mostly in Japanese... 15:37:28 leonidas: right, stuff it in. 15:37:47 sorry, i dont know about any frameworks, i kust like wha i read about the PLT web server :p 15:37:51 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 15:38:21 Leonidas: What about the french hop thing (iirc)? Have you tried it? 15:38:32 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-44-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 15:39:30 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A01E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:39:38 Leonidas: What I like about Kahua is that all url and state handling is done by Kahua, but without adding much complexity. 15:39:52 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-62-9.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:39:55 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 15:40:02 Leonidas: i wrote a whole MVC web framework for IronScheme on top of ASP.NET with about 300-400 lines of code 15:41:03 only about 10 lines of C# , rest Scheme 15:41:44 Web frameworks? 15:41:51 ivarref: no, I have it's site open in a tab. 15:41:53 Who wants web frameworks? 15:42:24 web frameworks are the easiest program, and have the most potential users 15:42:36 it still does not mean i like any of it! 15:42:40 :p 15:42:45 leppie: actually, I want to give these CPS-web-frameworks a try, to figure out whether it's fun or not. I'm not really planning to write my own :) 15:43:01 Magic, mod_lisp (MIT), scsh httpd, PLT Servlets, Oleg's CGI, Oleg's HTTP, &c. 15:43:14 thats why I like PLT web server, it has this continuation system for sessions 15:43:53 arcfide: by the time i gathered all those resources, i finished the web framework and a sample site 15:44:00 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.49.16.113] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:44:14 leppie: do you have it running somewhere? 15:44:22 *Leonidas* also found LeftParen 15:44:23 i was just mucking around, and it came alive :p 15:44:33 but it is under-documented. 15:44:44 leppie: Exactly, writing a web framework is not too hard, it is useful. 15:44:59 Leonidas: it uses a simalr scheme like LeftParen 15:45:13 i didnt even know about that when I know it 15:45:21 Leonidas: Many frameworks spawn into existence like Leppie's code, and sometimes, people don't bother to document their code when that happens. 15:45:25 sexpr just fit naturally with XML 15:46:06 I dont have it running live, but it does run on my pc... 15:46:30 unfortunately freehosts dont allow you to run FUll Trust .NET code 15:46:37 just medium trust 15:46:42 arcfide: sure, I absolutely understand that. I'm just looking on where to start. 15:46:45 i need full trust for IronScheme 15:46:56 leppie: have you considered implementing something like MIT Scheme's XML records? In some ways, those are a little more logical. 15:47:24 hmm, something like an example on how to implement http://www.seaside.st/about/examples/counter in that framework would be already quite helpful :) 15:47:41 i have 2 xml functions, 1 that does sexpr->xml, the other xml->sexpr, do I need anything else? 15:48:22 XML maps perfectly to sexpr, the other way, not so friendly with improper lists 15:48:36 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@58.49.16.113] has joined #scheme 15:49:21 https://ironscheme.svn.codeplex.com/svn/IronScheme/IronScheme.Web/views/blog.sls 15:49:45 leppie: XML validation, namespaces, ensuring correct structure, &c., are all nice and important. S-exprs do map naturally, but records have the advantage of enforcing a structure that is more rigid and more likely to be correct and well-formed. 15:49:46 kuribas: from a short glance on the Kahua examples, it looks nice. 15:50:30 (An improper list is not a well-formed S-expression.) 15:50:44 thats why you use macros to parse the source, macro's == XML Scheme 15:50:48 Schema 15:51:13 xml is just plain text without a schema 15:51:21 Daemmerung: What is not well-formed about an improper list? 15:51:46 arcfide: not a well-formed /S-expression/. 15:52:28 Daemmerung: What is your definition of an S-expression? 15:52:36 The definitions that I have seen would allow improper lists just fine. 15:53:09 actually, my scheme uses 'improper' conses for attributes 15:53:17 i think LeftParen does the same 15:53:52 -!- razvanm02 [n=razvan@85.183.0.99] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:54:43 s := atom; s := listof s. 15:55:02 can someone tell me how to get the plt servlet examples running? Specifically, I want to try plt/collects/web-server/default-web-root/servlets/examples/add.ss 15:55:21 The definition I have seen is: s := atom | (s . s). 15:55:40 arcfide: u need a null somewhere :p 15:55:53 leppie: I am assuming that's an atom. 15:56:00 ahh 15:56:07 what just gonna say that :p 15:57:52 ok time to fix bugs :) 16:01:31 -!- schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8bfb8a6b4b7fd777] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 16:03:45 arcfide: McCarthy (1960) agrees with your definition. 16:04:13 Daemmerung: You're thorough. 16:05:17 lol 16:05:18 I'm far from my library, so it was easiest simply to go to the origin. 16:06:07 Otherwise I could have been mired in /Anatomy of Lisp/ for hours... maybe this was for the best. 16:08:52 pity, im drunk and argumentative :p 16:15:24 Does anyone here pay any mind to xahlee on CLS? 16:16:24 he does make some points :p 16:17:19 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 16:18:33 -!- jao [n=user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:19:10 why is this valid? : (syntax-case '() () #'#t) 16:19:27 caxap [n=0@83.234.227.5] has joined #scheme 16:19:39 -!- caxap [n=0@83.234.227.5] has left #scheme 16:23:47 leppie: I don't believe it is valid, as (quote ()) is not a syntax object. 16:24:09 -!- Guest25622 [n=mike@dslb-088-066-251-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:24:36 syntax-case can accept datum or syntax-wrpped datum 16:26:04 sodio [n=sodio@netblock-63-66-64-29.myitdepartment.net] has joined #scheme 16:26:15 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-52-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 16:26:52 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-44-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:26:54 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 16:27:51 i have not seen a scheme (well the ones i use to test against) that does not accpt non-syntax datum 16:27:59 arcfide: xahlee is at least listed on http://www.tfeb.org/lisp/mad-people.html 16:28:10 geez thats way too many 'not's in that sentence 16:28:34 lol, not surprised froggy is #1 16:35:24 leppie: that's a funny syntax-case. It passes an expression that evaluates to the empty list, declares no literals, and has as its single clause a pattern (syntax #t) - so `syntax' would be seen as a single pattern variable, and constant truth the output. Where did you find that? 16:35:57 bpalmer` [n=user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has joined #scheme 16:36:05 i was just playing around :p 16:36:43 but the the (syntax #t) throws u off 16:37:58 and that was just after xahlee was complaining about the confusion of the LISP reader syntax 16:38:30 any human would reject that code! 16:39:08 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:39:19 sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 16:39:45 -!- ejs [n=eugen@80.91.178.218] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:47:32 It may be syntactically valid, but it is meaningless, as it is not returning a syntax object. I can write (+ 1 "one"), too. 16:49:32 hmm, u cant write (+ 1 "one"), that would result in an error of sorts 16:49:48 aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has joined #scheme 16:49:53 unless its wrapped in a guard 16:53:00 No, I certainly can write it. What I can't do is evaluate it meaningfully, because + limits it domain to numbers. Thus also with a syntax-case expander that returns #t instead of a syntax object. (+ 1 "one") is just as valid as (syntax-case '() () #'#t). 16:53:01 -!- aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:53:02 i wonder, can a define shadow a global syntax identifier? 16:53:18 i mean, would that behaviour be conformant to r5rs? 16:56:57 -!- kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43095.access.telenet.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:57:02 It can. R5RS 4.3. 16:59:02 rudybot: eval (let-syntax ((if (syntax-rules () ((_ foo bar baz) (for-each display '(foo bar baz)))))) (if "ala" "ma" "kota")) 16:59:09 4.3 says that syntactic keywords can shadow variable bindings, but not that variable bindings may shadow syntactic keywords 16:59:25 rudybot: alife? 16:59:42 *sladegen* kicks rudybot. 16:59:51 but it works. 17:02:04 "...local variable bindings may shadow keyword bindings." [...] "Note that a define at top level may or may not introduce a binding." 17:03:01 it works in scsh so it must work everywhere ;) 17:03:07 again, syntax-case needs not to return a syntax object, actually according to R6RS, there are rules to determine what is returned, wrapped or unwrapped 17:03:42 R6RS, c'est speciale. 17:04:19 elmex, also what you say, has been clarified in R6RS 17:04:25 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit ["The incensed priests...continued to raise their voices, vituperating each other in bad Latin"] 17:04:42 hmm 17:05:04 damn :) 17:05:29 leppie: but i want to write an r5rs implementation :-> 17:05:58 terrorist! 17:06:02 yeah :) but all the people here are anti-R6RS, so i need to make a point when I can :p 17:07:40 basically R6RS ganrentees that you have the same identifier you defined it with, even if it gets shadowed somewhere/somehow 17:08:28 leppie: i must say, that one thing i like with r6rs, is, that it is more precise in some (crucial) places than r5rs 17:08:45 i like that too, but sometimes its a real PITA 17:08:51 :) 17:09:39 like there is no easy way to just use 'plain identifiers', just have tp be very explicit 17:09:45 to 17:10:07 hmm 17:10:36 im specifically talking about auxillary syntax and records here 17:11:58 section 1.7 seems to say that any syntactic bindings may shadow variable bindings when the identifers are used as the first element of a list 17:12:15 (r6rs) 17:12:30 if i interpret it right 17:12:39 sounds like a sane semantic thing 17:12:48 you can shadow the binding, but only your code will use it 17:13:01 I was unaware that R6 had changed syntax-case (unsurprised, but unaware). Good to know. 17:13:14 but you will run into problem with auxillary syntax 17:13:21 leppie: i can? with (define) ? 17:13:33 well with anything 17:13:33 or just with local binding forms like let/lambda? 17:13:38 hmmm 17:14:28 well you can rename import definitions 17:14:44 and export your own 17:14:46 oh right, that crufty complicated library stuff ;-/ 17:15:15 yeah :| 17:15:45 but it really helps when you want to do more dynamic/comlicated stuff 17:16:16 i mean, i read the papers on syntactic abstraction and all... but i am certainly not able to implement all that stuff that comes with r6rs 17:16:28 stuff like: (eval 'foo (environment (mylib bar))) 17:16:42 yes, that indeed is nice 17:16:46 where foo is some interface 17:17:01 *Leonidas* got the PLT web server running with help of an thread in hacker news. 17:17:13 Yay! That thing is fun 17:17:14 good :) 17:17:33 Any sufficiently complicated R5RS Scheme program contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of R6RS's library facility. 17:17:50 i would not say R5RS is bad, it's just under defined 17:18:13 that means that one can be very variable with the implementation of it :-> 17:18:17 because of the minimalism 17:19:55 Daemmerung: actually Petite Chez is very close to R6RS (mmm, I wonder why?) 17:21:28 but then again I am used to the sematics of psyntax which is used in more than half the implementations i use for testing 17:23:10 I was referring to programs, not language implementations. Systems such as Chez and PLT are hardly limited to R5RS. 17:26:47 (and re syntax-case: PLT's implementation, the one I use, is fairly letter of the law. As in Dybvig 1992.) 17:27:51 i was suprised by that too :p 17:27:57 *Daemmerung* decides to try PLT's R6RS support on a lark 17:28:24 9 months of Scheme thinking I could only use syntax-case for syntax! 17:28:41 it makes matching easy 17:31:31 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-53-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 17:31:36 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #scheme 17:32:11 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-52-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:32:13 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 17:37:46 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-160-133.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 17:37:58 Fwiw, PLT in R6RS mode has no problem with returning a nonpair, nonvector, nonsymbol value - e.g., a naked #t - from a syntax-case expression. 17:40:50 melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 17:43:28 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 17:49:48 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:50:27 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-202.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:51:19 Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 17:53:15 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-202.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:59:37 yip, thats what I got too, I was suprised, then I realised other schemes behave the same 18:00:32 i guess it just converts everything into some 'outside' scope syntax 18:00:43 -!- bpalmer` [n=user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has left #scheme 18:01:10 there are some sematic differences with free-identifier=? usage 18:01:25 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:01:50 hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has joined #scheme 18:02:13 but otherwise it works the same 18:03:34 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@iub-vpn-205-200.noc.indiana.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:05:22 umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has joined #scheme 18:07:37 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:10:25 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 18:23:44 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:26:11 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable006.84-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:27:59 bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable006.84-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:29:59 tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has joined #scheme 18:30:29 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 18:35:59 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:36:10 sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 18:41:25 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-231-47.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 18:42:21 sm [n=sm@pool-71-104-93-120.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:46:25 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 18:47:09 gigabytes [n=gigabyte@host54-234-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 18:47:32 -!- gigabytes [n=gigabyte@host54-234-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:57:42 gigabytes [n=gigabyte@host54-234-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 18:58:17 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-231-47.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:05:04 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-127-174.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:05:52 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-127-174.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 19:05:56 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 19:10:19 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [] 19:14:26 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:15:23 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 19:15:41 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-195-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 19:16:10 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:16:32 hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has joined #scheme 19:17:47 aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-247.ST.HMC.Edu] has joined #scheme 19:19:49 *Daemmerung* wants some of what SK is smoking 19:20:56 SK? 19:22:38 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:27:55 sjamaan: http://groups.google.com/group/plt-scheme/msg/15901708c49c5652 19:28:34 hmm 19:28:43 haha 19:28:45 funny i was kinda baffled by that too 19:28:49 <3 19:32:01 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:39:08 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:39:15 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless3.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:43:13 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #scheme 19:48:29 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B056210.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:50:56 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-124-167.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [No route to host] 19:53:03 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 19:55:25 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [] 19:59:45 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 19:59:54 -!- umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has quit [] 20:03:45 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #scheme 20:07:53 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B056210.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:10:32 -!- aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-247.ST.HMC.Edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:27:46 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-71-56.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:29:17 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:30:13 I simply cannot get this mask to work right. draw-bitmap does it fine, but when I manually or the mask pixels with the rgb to get argb, it still ends up that black is transparent, and transparent is opaque white. 20:31:52 Maybe I should just write some routines to read from the png format directly... 20:32:25 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 20:32:29 i was so frustrated with a scheme lib the other day, that i wrote routines to read and write .wav files myself 20:32:36 (may be more trivial than .png; not sure) 20:34:07 -!- mudhoney [n=bryan@12-219-29-127.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:34:24 by the way, which is more scheme-like: set-fibonnaci-heap-min! or fibonnaci-heap-set-min! 20:34:37 png is pretty simple. It's a bunch of blocks, one is the header, and one is the pixels (compressed). 20:34:49 or fibonnaci-heap-min-set! 20:34:49 i can't tell whether the analogy is set-car! or vector-set!; set-fibonnaci-heap-min! may be contaminated by java 20:34:59 leppie: exactly 20:34:59 But it would mean I couldn't use tga for instance, or gif... 20:35:00 -!- gigabytes [n=gigabyte@host54-234-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 20:35:18 i prefer what i said :) 20:35:31 just taste; or any other basis? 20:35:50 vector-set! seems to speak in your favor 20:35:56 but not set-car! 20:36:22 I'd do fibonnaci-heap-set-min! because you're not setting the heap, whereas with set-car! you are setting the car. 20:36:33 most of those defs are parameters, or fields of classes so I like to keep it consistent, with the accessor being fibonnaci-heap-min 20:36:49 actually, i lie 20:36:55 maybe fibonacci:heap-set-min! 20:36:57 i just use parameters 20:37:18 fibonnaci-heap-min 20:37:39 much easier to remember 20:37:43 good points, all; synx: fibonacci-heap:set-min! 20:37:55 the set gets to 'long handed' 20:38:11 Anything involving fibonacci besides (fibonacci) is overkill IMO 20:38:51 indeed; it's a lot of typing; but either way at least i'll remember in the future whether fibonacci has two n's or two c's! 20:38:55 in R6RS, (fibonacci) would just be the library :) 20:39:45 klutometis: it's a real help when you remember that in Italian the "ch" sound is always two c's c.c 20:39:51 Per my take, *-set! appears in suffix pos when it's setting an element named by a key, as in: string, vector. set-*! appears in prefix when it's setting a named attribute, as in: set-car! on an element with a field called car. 20:40:05 it's in a module, actually; but fibonacci heaps are used alongside binomial heaps; have to differentiate them 20:40:07 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:40:26 -!- Lemon [n=karl@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:40:42 So (collection-thingy-set! thingy key newval), but most likely (set-heap-min! heap new-min-val) 20:40:43 They don't have the same interface? 20:41:01 Lemon [n=karl@CMU-301252.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:41:13 Daemmerung: so you would advocate set-fibonnaci-heap-min! ? 20:41:16 synx: that's true 20:41:44 klutometis: I would, esp. if the define-struct on your system generates mutators with such a name. 20:42:03 using srfi-9; so have to define them manually 20:42:04 or fibo:set-heap-min!, either one. 20:42:13 that's an interesting one, too 20:42:51 there's something reminiscent of java in set-fibonnaci-heap-min!, though 20:43:05 *klutometis* shudders 20:43:27 oh well; that's trivia 20:43:39 fibonacci:we-could-not-decide-on-naming-scheme-so-this-will-just-set-the-heap-minimum 20:44:12 What's the name of your accessor? Is it fibo:heap-min (with a pseudo module prefix), or fibo-heap-min? 20:47:13 I like the way you think leppie 20:47:46 (import (rename (only (leppie-lib) fib-i-got-a-pair-of-brand-new-rollerskates-you-got-a-brand-new-key) (f))) 20:50:23 jao [n=user@224.Red-83-38-59.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:51:59 rareas [n=user@190.19.127.38] has joined #scheme 20:52:08 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [] 20:52:22 Sigh, all I want to do is display a bunch of pixmaps with alpha on the screen... wonder how many days I've been at it now. 20:54:08 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:54:19 sjamaan [n=sjamaan@frohike-old.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 21:00:19 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 21:02:51 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable006.84-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:04:34 bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable006.84-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:05:22 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-61-191.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 21:08:53 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #scheme 21:10:01 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-61-191.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:10:04 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-71-56.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:13:17 cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-192-208-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:15:59 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-28-149.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 21:17:01 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-53-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:17:03 -!- tizoc_ is now known as tizoc 21:24:33 rdd`` [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 21:25:09 -!- rdd` [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:26:59 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-192-208-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:29:30 -!- rdd`` is now known as rdd 21:39:28 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:41:41 lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.92] has joined #scheme 21:54:00 You take a pixel mask, and you bitwise-or each pixel with that of the image to get the alpha...something's not right about that... 21:54:34 never mind the wrongness that people solved this problem back in the 80's at least. 21:55:49 I'm about as effective as a toothpick in a forest fire. 21:58:35 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [] 21:59:17 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 21:59:45 -!- lelf [n=lelf@217.118.90.92] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 22:00:07 -!- rareas [n=user@190.19.127.38] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:00:26 rareas [n=user@190.19.127.38] has joined #scheme 22:00:59 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 22:03:59 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has left #scheme 22:05:20 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-105-3-106.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 22:08:18 synx, what are you trying to do? 22:08:26 r2q2 [n=user@c-71-228-37-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:11:00 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:12:19 I'm trying to put a bunch of images on the screen, but they need to have transparency. 22:13:25 ...using sgl textures. 22:13:51 er, opengl sorry sgl is the plt library 22:14:38 I got it working with draw-bitmap, but I don't think that'd scale up to a game. 22:14:50 so you want to use opengl to do it? 22:14:59 is it just a 2-d game? 22:17:27 Pretty much. Was thinking a tile based background, but otherwise with partial transparency: for appearing behind bushes and stuff, and to define the border of sprites. 22:17:43 do you want to look at my 2-d graphics library? http://www.cs.utah.edu/~rafkind/archive/allegro-scheme/2/4/doc/allegro.html 22:17:50 it handles transparency easily 22:18:46 Heh, allegro. 22:19:03 Doesn't use gl though. Is it quick enough? 22:19:19 its reasonable 22:19:29 doesn't work so great on osx.. are you on osx? 22:19:40 synx: which texture-env mode are you using? 22:20:07 GL_TEXTURE_2D you mean? 22:20:26 No, GL_TEXTURE_ENV. 22:20:35 I can get blending working just fine, I just can't get it to work right for the alpha information in the pixels. 22:20:48 I'm not...using that. <_< 22:22:58 Make sure that when you build the texture, that you're using the alpha in the pixels; and make sure that your texture-env is not the "blast it out there and to heck with the alpha" one -- I forget which one. 22:23:16 decal vs modulate vs I forget what 22:23:39 *Daemmerung* knew last week, but has overwritten that since 22:25:30 I can't use the alpha in the pixels, because it's in a separate mask, re the bitmap interface. 22:25:49 I tried to combine the mask and the image, pixel by pixel, but haven't been successful yet. 22:26:28 I'll try that texture-env thing 22:26:50 Well, that texture-env thing won't work if you don't have alpha in the pixels. 22:27:31 But you /can/ use the alpha in the pixels. Just call get-argb-pixels 2ce inito the same destination buffer. 22:27:48 Then munge the buffer to put it into quadrant II; 22:27:58 then make a cvector* alias; 22:28:52 then pass that alias to glTexImage2D with the right unpacking flags, so that it makes a RGBA out of your ARGB. 22:30:17 (glTexImage2D GL_TEXTURE_2D 0 GL_RGBA texture-name cx cy 0 GL_BGRA GL_UNSIGNED_INT_8_8_8_8 yer-ccvector-here) 22:30:47 wat 22:30:59 Void where taxed, licensed, or otherwise prohibited by law. If it doesn't work, I never said anything. Deny, deny, deny. 22:30:59 you mean it won't overwrite the rgb with 000? 22:31:15 It will not overwrite the rgb. That is correct. 22:31:30 Don't need to quadrant munge, I've heard, because that's what gl-tex-coord is for. 22:31:47 Okay, that saves me a hassle, thanks! 22:31:55 You will get an inverted image if you don't quadrant munge. 22:33:12 *Daemmerung* reads back 22:33:26 I meant, munge the buffer to put it into quadrant I. I. I. Not II. My bad. 22:33:53 Unless you specify the texture coordinates different from the vertex coordinates. Might be a good idea to do that beforehand though, not every draw loop. 22:34:00 *Daemmerung* returns to debugging his pick-buffer code 22:35:25 aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-247.ST.HMC.Edu] has joined #scheme 22:38:28 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:42:23 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-202.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:44:17 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:44:37 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-46-122.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 22:44:48 is there a simple guard that would accept only lists of one or more elements? 22:45:19 since (list? null) returns #t 22:47:30 aoeuid_: pair? 22:47:50 pair? and list?, possibly, if you want to ensure it's a proper list 22:47:59 :D 22:48:10 yes, pair is definitely what I was looking for 22:50:59 aoeuid_: hail, dvorak 22:51:12 heheh 22:51:58 I think you're the first person in the... 3-4? years I've been using this nick to note that right off the bat 22:52:11 -!- aoeuid_ is now known as aoeuid 22:54:11 really? it's so much more beautiful than asdfgh_ 22:54:43 the underscore was just a thing to get me signed back on when I timed out 22:54:51 but it is a little less obvious 22:55:03 if only for the fact that not too many people have heard of dvorak keyboards 22:55:13 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:55:16 I don't actually use one though 22:55:24 many people here probably use it 22:55:35 here as in #scheme? 22:55:39 yeah 22:55:42 interesting; but, yeah, the homerow is definitely burned into my neurons 22:55:42 *pjdelport* does 22:55:45 interesting 22:55:53 is it as helpful as claimed? 22:56:02 my boss used it I remember... 22:56:18 night and day, really; i still can't believe that 'e' is off the home-row for you qwertians 22:56:25 it's the most common letter! 22:56:39 (in english, that is) 22:56:52 hmm.. 22:56:54 aoeuid: probably 22:57:06 there are a lot of myths floating around, though 22:57:28 levi [n=user@levi.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 22:57:46 I just really don't have the time to spend learning it right now though 22:57:57 the earliest I could do it would be winter break 22:57:59 i learned it mid-semester; that was hell ;) 22:58:10 yeah, I can imagine 22:58:56 heh, I wonder if there's an iphone setting that will change the keyboard to qwerty 22:59:08 dvorak? looked for a mod myself 22:59:17 err ya 22:59:23 didn't find anything? 22:59:49 that was awhile back; now it looks like there's a first-hit in goog 23:00:16 http://www.artsy.ca/archives/149 23:00:38 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-28-149.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:00:44 whoops: just concept art 23:01:52 sili [n=sili@222.127.173.140] has joined #scheme 23:01:53 http://niamu.com/blog/49 23:02:11 I just read about parameters in the PLT docs but remain confused. can anyone explain them to me? 23:02:52 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:03:29 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-160-133.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 23:04:24 http://niamu.com/blog/49 <- looks good to me 23:04:31 but you need to jailbreak it 23:05:07 c-c-c-c-combo breaker? 23:05:59 aoeuid: done; funny thing is, could probably get dvorak on an android without voiding my warranty 23:06:13 sili: you mind being more specific about what confuses you? 23:06:57 klutometis: I don't understand what their purpose is 23:07:06 sili: They're settings that are specific to a continuation and thread. What are you doing with them? 23:07:15 synx: just reading about them 23:07:16 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 23:10:12 synx: they seem a lot like variables used by functions and parameters just make them safer to use. is that right? 23:11:28 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has quit [] 23:12:02 no clue 23:13:19 does that mean my thought is completely inane or you really have no clue? :) 23:14:03 I have never even read about "parameters" before you mentioned it. If you're really curious, the docs say they can be defined in terms of other constructs... 23:17:52 Parameters are dynamically bound resources that need not be explicitly passed to the parts of a program that need to refer to them. 23:22:01 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:27:40 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 23:36:40 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 23:40:28 n3li7e [n=Neil@98.223.199.215] has joined #scheme 23:42:35 -!- n3li7e [n=Neil@98.223.199.215] has quit [Client Quit] 23:48:39 AshyIsMe [n=User@202.176.4.21] has joined #scheme 23:51:44 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-21-97.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 23:53:31 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has quit []