00:03:16 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 00:06:36 no matter what I try, I can't remove the nulls! 00:06:43 huh? 00:06:45 I've tried all the different removes and rem*s 00:06:51 even this: (filter (lambda (x) (not (null? x))) '(null 1 null 2 3)) 00:07:03 still returns (null 1 null 2 3) 00:07:06 The object denoted by the text NULL is a symbol, not the empty list. 00:07:16 rudybot: eval (null? (car '(null))) 00:07:17 Riastradh: ; Value: #f 00:07:49 unless he's using a language where (define null '()) 00:08:07 gah 00:08:16 that's a horrible thing for a language to allow 00:08:17 No, that doesn't make any difference, duncanm. 00:08:28 ok, I think I've got it ok 00:08:29 rudybot: eval (begin (define null '()) (null? (car '(null)))) 00:08:29 Riastradh: ; Value: #f 00:08:36 rudybot: eval (begin (define null 42) (null? (car '(null)))) 00:08:36 Riastradh: ; Value: #f 00:08:43 Riastradh: oh, it's a literal list, right 00:08:57 This is because the procedure NULL? is not dependent on whatever the local definition of any variable named NULL happens to be. 00:09:33 ah 00:09:34 well 00:09:45 Riastradh: if he's using PLT Scheme, at least in the advance student language 00:09:49 you can see this: 00:10:13 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 00:10:17 ahhh 00:10:19 you're right 00:10:22 it doesn't matter 00:11:10 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-084-059-043-004.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:11:49 dum de dum 00:12:01 *aoeuid* is using advanced student, btw 00:12:31 also, what would be the preferable way of removing the nulls from a list like (() () a () b ()) ? 00:12:31 aoeuid: if you make your list using (list null 1 2 null), it'll work 00:12:43 aoeuid: you need to learn about QUOTE'ing 00:12:56 (list null 1 2 null) is not the same as '(null 1 2 null) 00:13:06 but say for that list, what would you use to remove it? 00:13:23 I don't really understand the difference between remq* remv* and remove* 00:13:33 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Client Quit] 00:14:54 Why don't you avoid putting the nulls in the list in the first place? 00:15:02 > (remove null? (list '() 1 2 3 '() 4 5)) 00:15:02 '(1 2 3 4 5) 00:15:18 whoa, thanks 00:15:24 Riastradh: it's a long story 00:15:51 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A128C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:16:45 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-231-47.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 00:16:50 but (remove* null? '(() 1 () 2 ())) gives an error :/ 00:17:03 aoeuid: where did you get remove* from? 00:17:11 I want to remove all the nulls 00:17:18 benny [n=benny@i577A128C.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 00:17:34 (remove null? '(() 1 () 2 ())) gives (() 1 () 2 ()) 00:17:38 aoeuid: what is '(() 1 () 2 ())) 00:17:51 if you want to use quote, quote your ()s too 00:17:55 a list with nulls and not null things 00:18:02 huh? 00:18:13 hmm 00:18:54 > (remove null? '(() 1 2 3 () 4 5)) 00:18:56 that works for me 00:19:17 evaluates to (() 1 2 3 () 4 5) here :/ 00:19:24 what's remove* ? 00:19:32 i'm using REMOVE from SRFI-1 00:20:03 if REMOVE* is your own implementation, then you have a bug there 00:20:05 oh, remove* is wrong, I shouldn't be using that 00:20:08 no no 00:20:12 it should be with normal remove 00:20:39 but just remove null? doesn't work for some reason 00:20:56 it does for me 00:21:43 aoeuid: does remove actually take a procedure argument in whatever variant you're using? 00:21:58 don't think so 00:22:05 but, (filter (lambda (x) (not (null? x))) '(() 1 () 2 ())) works fine, I guess 00:22:09 aoeuid: where are you getting this 'remove' from? 00:22:18 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/pairs.html#(def._((lib._scheme/base..ss)._remove*)) 00:22:22 right there 00:22:31 it's the standard one, or so I thought 00:22:40 no, the standard one is the SRFI 1 version 00:22:48 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-1/srfi-1.html#remove 00:22:56 so that's something, but it's not standard :-) 00:23:02 I don't think advanced student has srfis 00:23:21 ... why are you using that language leve anyway? 00:23:32 because that's what we have to for our class, lol 00:23:59 well, just include the SRFI 1 reference implementation in your programs :-) 00:24:07 heheh 00:24:40 aoeuid: if you want to use that version, you can write (remove* '() lst eq?), which is equivalent to (remq* (list '()) lst) 00:26:28 (remove* (list '()) '(() 1 2 3 () 4 5) eq?) ;; => (1 2 3 4 5) 00:26:45 -!- akeep [n=akeep@98.223.210.136] has left #scheme 00:26:47 Eew, it uses equal? by default. 00:27:14 chandler: i don't see how this API is any better than SRFI-1 00:27:14 It is an analogue to MEM{BER,V,Q} and ASS{OC,V,Q}. 00:27:33 boo 00:28:08 this is strange: (list->vector '(0        )) => #9(0 ) 00:28:17 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-231-47.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:28:23 it just eats the rest of the s! 00:28:27 No, it doesn't. 00:28:33 where do they go then? 00:28:33 aoeuid: it's just the way it prints it 00:28:37 It tells you that there are nine elements in the list, the last n of which are repeated. 00:28:48 !?@#@ 00:29:05 aoeuid: what's wrong with that? 00:29:10 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless156.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:29:22 shouldn't it be, I dunno, mentioned in some fairly obvious place in the docs? 00:29:47 like, http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/vectors.html 00:29:56 (vector-length (list-> vector ...)) will tell you that nothing is being truncated 00:30:10 list->vector 00:30:19 but the notation is not at all obvious 00:30:41 so I see no excuse for not spelling it out in the docs =/ 00:30:42 it's not obvious to me that list->vector will drop elements on the floor either 00:30:51 exactly 00:30:59 which made me ask 00:31:11 whatever 00:31:37 who would I have to annoy to have that put up on the page I linked? 00:33:30 eli 00:33:43 haha 00:35:40 aoeuid: it is documented, you just need to look harder, http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/printing.html#(part._print-vectors) 00:37:28 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 00:37:29 -!- allnmymind [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279680047.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:37:30 yeoh [n=chatzill@64.49.48.60.kmr03-home.tm.net.my] has joined #scheme 00:40:30 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133117089.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:52:03 aoeuid: which docs are you referring to? 00:52:04 -!- yeoh [n=chatzill@64.49.48.60.kmr03-home.tm.net.my] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 01:01:44 -!- sodio [n=sodio@netblock-63-66-64-29.myitdepartment.net] has quit [] 01:03:50 sodio [n=sodio@netblock-63-66-64-29.myitdepartment.net] has joined #scheme 01:04:12 -!- sodio [n=sodio@netblock-63-66-64-29.myitdepartment.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:11:24 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme 01:12:49 -!- emma is now known as joe-the-plumber 01:12:59 -!- joe-the-plumber is now known as emma 01:15:16 xhanjian [n=Jan@218.109.75.129] has joined #scheme 01:18:22 -!- aoeuid [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:21:03 -!- jao [n=user@129.Red-83-42-110.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:25:53 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:26:10 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-227-32.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:32:56 -!- melito [n=melito@70.99.250.82] has quit ["Leaving..."] 01:39:02 -!- echo-are` [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-dbdf7d34c653f2d8] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:39:37 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-852000cbc78917b5] has joined #scheme 01:42:37 -!- Deformati [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:46:02 Deformative [n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:55:37 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 02:00:55 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:07:00 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 02:07:42 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 02:10:54 *offby1* breaks mbishop's hip by remote control 02:15:45 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:27:50 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has quit [] 02:29:45 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:33:31 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-132-59.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:36:37 cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-192-208-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:46:34 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-192-208-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:02:11 elmex_ [n=elmex@e180067191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:09:09 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 03:14:57 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:15:19 underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 03:17:14 -!- elmex [n=elmex@e180067025.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:17:18 -!- elmex_ is now known as elmex 03:18:52 aoeuid [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has joined #scheme 03:20:59 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 03:33:51 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable230.56-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["strawberry"] 03:34:13 It has never been proven that I eat cats. 03:35:04 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:37:24 It has been proven that I never eat glass. 03:40:10 I can eat glass. It does not hurt me. 03:41:46 And now, in Esperanto! 03:46:45 Mi povas mangxi vitron, gxi min ne doloras! 03:47:08 huh, perhaps I can get gnomon to give me money if I ask nicely 03:47:33 Por favor, déme todo su dinero 03:47:39 *offby1* glances around nervously. 03:47:50 I can't give you someone else's money? 03:48:04 oh, that'd be OK, as long as it's legal tender in the country in which I live (namely: the USA) 03:48:11 and as long as there's really rather quite a lot of it. 03:48:16 Better yet, can I borrow *your* money, make bets with it, and give you a share back if the bets pay off? I hear that's a great strategy. 03:48:22 er 03:48:24 well 03:48:25 I uh 03:48:28 C'mon. 03:48:31 Everyone's doing it. 03:48:54 What could possibly go wrong? 03:49:03 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:49:24 Grr, so, I have an Othello game I am writing for class. 03:49:26 It stinks. 03:49:27 :-P 03:49:45 It plays like a dumb ox trying to tight rope walk across Niagra Falls. 03:50:31 The best thing about that spectacle is the barbequeue afterwards. Sure, it takes a while to dry out, but it's very well tenderized. 03:50:33 I'm sorry, your simile has caused my brain to explode. Please try again. 03:51:49 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:53:18 Mmmm... barbecue. 03:54:05 *Daemmerung* reads back up the buffer 03:54:27 And now, in Gungan: Meesa can eat da glass, meesa is no hurt. 03:54:54 DIE DIE DIE 03:54:59 Also: DIE 03:55:02 How wude. 03:55:53 die bart, die 03:55:59 it's german 03:56:25 bhrgunatha [n=chatzill@118-170-35-92.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 03:59:44 No one who speaks German could be an evil man. 03:59:52 *Daemmerung* exonerates zbigniew 04:01:59 -!- bhrgunatha [n=chatzill@118-170-35-92.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.1b1/20081007112159]"] 04:03:19 benny` [n=benny@i577A128C.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 04:03:32 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A128C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:11:14 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:14:12 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has quit [No route to host] 04:16:56 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 04:20:28 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["sleep time is now"] 04:27:35 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176192232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:27:49 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176200023.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:46:58 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 04:50:05 *zbigniew* adumbrates Daemmerung 04:50:09 -!- cubix [n=cubix@bas21-toronto12-1279686855.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 04:59:10 *offby1* wishes his vocabulary were larger 05:03:48 Gr0w your voc@bulary! Herbel supplaments for extra wird power! 05:04:06 see, I don't know how to spell fancy like you-all. 05:04:13 Increese ur [Scrabble] performance! 05:04:25 *gnomon* shudders 05:04:58 On a slightly more serious note, I wonder if people who send mis-spelled emails realize that now they automatically sound like scam artists. 05:04:59 *Daemmerung* orders gnomon's hurbal sueplamants thru his w3b s1t3 05:05:37 w00! We thank you for your busunes, valude custummer! 05:06:02 *Daemmerung* watches the front of his trousers expectantly 05:06:20 *gnomon* hefts a weighty dicttionary and takes aim 05:06:21 ...hey. My vocabulary isn't growing. 05:06:30 Give it a sec to arrive. 05:07:03 you have to apply it externally first! 05:07:04 Is that you vocabulary growing, or are you just articulate? 05:07:25 Articulated, actually. Daemmerung has sixty pivot points! 05:07:34 Here, watch how well he bends. 05:07:45 *gnomon* launches the dictionary at the target of Daemmerung's gaze 05:07:46 *Daemmerung* takes new job as "Flex" Daemmerung 05:08:17 eww 05:08:36 aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-247.ST.HMC.Edu] has joined #scheme 05:08:36 Holy Hephaestus! I feel the power of twenty Fem Stud majors surging through me!! 05:08:45 eww 05:09:00 *gnomon* shifts away from Daemmerung on the bench, there 05:09:07 *Daemmerung* gratuitously gets a MFA in Performance Art 05:10:34 Woo. What a rush. 05:11:13 Thanks, anonymous Internets e-tailer! U have ch@ang3d my l1f3!! 05:11:53 *gnomon* looks back and forth between the front of Daemmerung's pants and the heavy dictionary that just slammed into them 05:11:56 Um. 05:11:59 U R wellcom! 05:12:08 Pleez shop agin. 05:12:32 Also to be teling ur frends of grate servis. 05:13:31 *Daemmerung* sadly watches his vocabulary deflate to its former dimensions 05:14:02 they are going to blacklist the server hosting #scheme logs now. 05:14:34 Hang on: there's a server hosting #scheme IRC logs that isn't down right now? I am shocked! Shocked, I say! 05:14:51 ...nuts. And now Barnard is probably going to revoke that MFA. Double nuts, even. 05:15:07 scheme.org has been hacked! Round up the usual suspects. 05:15:48 I bet it was Shivers, that troublemaker. 05:15:55 he's been sick for the past few days 05:16:05 maybe it's just an excuse, and he was hacking up a storm in his apt. 05:16:08 Really? Sick or "sick"? 05:16:13 Heh. 05:16:20 gnomon: he missed his meeting with me because he wasn't feeling well 05:16:32 Oh, gosh. Ok. I hope he's feeling better soon. 05:17:05 Likewise. 05:17:18 *offby1* offers medicine 05:17:40 well, this is pretty dull. I'll admit it: I haven't written anything of interest in Scheme in months. 05:17:44 *offby1* looks at his feet 05:17:56 Me neither, unfortunately. 05:18:08 I don't get it. Why are you raising that topic in #scheme? 05:18:09 he can't leave now! he must releas trx before the end! 05:18:10 I'm not too happy about that situation either. 05:18:22 hey sladegen 05:18:37 la la la 05:18:46 DUM de dum 05:18:50 *Daemmerung* blinks in confusion 05:19:05 .oO("trx"?) 05:19:15 Tree Regular Expressions, no? 05:19:19 Transitive Regular eXpression, DUH 05:19:24 *sladegen* nodes. 05:19:36 ... at gnomon. 05:19:37 http://shivers.com/~shivers/scheme04/tmp/scheme04/article/03-trx.pdf 05:19:46 ...right. Didn't realize you were SRSLY. 05:20:07 That reminds me. 05:20:08 only partly. 05:20:13 *gnomon* abuses the company printer 05:20:33 *Daemmerung* boggles at the Playboy Bunny rendered in glorious ASCII 05:20:43 OH NOES 05:20:46 Wrong printer! 05:20:49 Give it back. 05:21:07 *Daemmerung* reloads the paper cartidge six times for extra copies 05:21:16 pump up the encoding! 05:21:20 Also, the cartridge, too. 05:22:19 -!- aoeuid [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:23:27 *Daemmerung* pins Miss March 1971 on his wall 05:23:50 Finally retiring that tattered Margaret Thatcher poster, eh? 05:23:58 You TAKE THAT BACK 05:24:05 *Daemmerung* sobs 05:24:09 *gnomon* runs, cackling 05:24:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUwr7GvM_Xs 05:24:13 lewis black is awesome 05:28:57 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@221.235.62.81] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:29:19 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@221.235.62.81] has joined #scheme 05:32:04 tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-17-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 05:32:36 There should be a word for the feeling when you find yourself working on a system without the last month's carefully hoarded Emacs enhancements, and with no way of recovering those enhancements for a while. 05:33:06 Daemmerung: what emacs enhancements are you talking about? 05:33:17 cubix [n=cubix@bas21-toronto12-1279686855.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 05:34:45 Training scheme.el to indent and fontify nonstandard bits of syntax not present in mit-scheme. My Emacs-fu is pretty sparse... I make changes, then forget what I've done. 05:35:15 Also, god knows what else. 05:35:20 oh, you write (put ...) something like that 05:35:35 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 05:35:36 *Daemmerung* is illuminated 05:35:42 But of course. 05:35:46 (put 'some-function 'scheme-indent-function 1) 05:36:31 If I recall, it was a little more involved than that... oh, well. Will serve as finger exercises to get me working again, I suppose. 05:49:57 -!- tizoc [n=user@r190-135-40-67.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:53:49 -!- underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has quit [] 06:02:56 underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:07:16 scheme.org was hacked? 06:07:30 -!- underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 06:07:45 what was wrong with it? 06:07:59 axed, you mean? 06:08:13 eli: who said? it looks good to me... (it's a redirect to schemers.org, isn't it?) 06:08:20 yes. 06:08:33 That what it *should* do. 06:08:45 (It's my server.) 06:08:46 That's what it does for me. 06:09:15 Then you oughta know whether it was hacked or not. 06:09:45 And I should worry more in case it was, without me knowing about it. 06:11:54 underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:12:54 eli: somebody was being silly. (somebody was being in character.) 06:12:56 -!- Lemon [n=karl@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:13:15 *gnomon* looks around nervously 06:13:28 Ah. 06:13:40 Lemon [n=karl@LEMON.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 06:13:47 the one with the braces 06:13:57 (funcall) is what really drives me away from lisp. 06:14:00 CRAP wrong buffer sorry 06:14:17 dentures. 06:14:29 That you cannot make any functions that act like the ones they give you. 06:14:40 No access to that ...namespace or whatnot. 06:15:42 It just seems wrong to go (lambda (plus) (funcall plus 1 2)) when you can't go (funcall + 1 2), nor (plus 1 2). i don't know why, except intuitively... 06:16:05 s/i/I/ xp 06:17:51 LeCamarade [n=LeCamara@41.222.7.35] has joined #scheme 06:21:11 what are the circumstances, if any, where it's advantageous to use vectors instead of lists as storage? 06:21:21 -!- aoeuid_ is now known as aoeuid 06:21:42 vectors are important to use when you need random access to the elements. 06:21:53 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 06:22:26 since vector-ref has a constant access time? 06:22:48 There is no guarantee that vector-ref has constant access time, only an assumption. 06:23:02 heh 06:23:06 a fairrrrrrly safe assumption 06:23:06 Leastwise there is no guarantee in R5RS or any of the prior standards. 06:23:28 Need I bring up PicoBIT and PICBIT again? Both have O(log n) access time. 06:23:49 No need. They are Special. Or speciale, even. 06:23:51 Vectors are also very useful as mutable data stores. 06:23:54 The fact is with vector-ref you can access elements at all, whereas with a list you can only access the first element and the cdr. 06:23:55 I guess I'll keep my thing with vectors then 06:24:13 thanks :) 06:24:33 oh, but one last thing 06:24:42 Only in some cases. 06:24:52 Somtimes the last thing can be a value other than 1. 06:25:07 is there any built-in function that would let me go through a long list of lists to replace every instance of one symbol with another? 06:25:12 Be careful though. Many algorithms can be written to deal with only accessing the list sequentially. That's generally what ends up being the best strategy for me. 06:25:13 According to R6RS, STRING-REF is supposed to be constant time, but VECTOR-REF isn't. 06:25:25 That makes sense :/ 06:25:28 R6, too, is speciale. 06:25:37 aoeuid: besides map? 06:26:10 I don't see how map could be all that useful... 06:26:12 (map (lambda (a) (if (equal? a 'beep) 'boop a))) l) 06:26:18 it only looks at the first level of lists 06:26:30 I mean to replace the symbol at all levels of nesting 06:26:33 Oh, you mean recursively traverse the lists. 06:27:06 Just write a recursive function along those lines. If it's 'beep, then 'boop, if it's a list, then recurse, otherwise the value. 06:27:26 Have the lambda that you pass to MAP check whether its argument is a pair: if it is, recurse, then continue. 06:27:30 D'oh. 06:27:43 heh 06:27:47 *gnomon* notes for the record that synx types faster 06:27:53 it shouldn't be too hard though 06:27:54 aoeuid: one cannot answer "is there any built-in function that...?" without knowing your implementation. I nevertheless feel fairly safe in answering your particular q with No. 06:28:06 I guessed so 06:28:07 *synx* win a prize :o 06:28:33 *Daemmerung* awards synx a blue ribbon o' fast typin' 06:29:05 *synx* wins a blue ribbon o'...dang 06:30:49 oh my, I think I will have to optimize my output a bit 06:31:04 *aoeuid* giggles 06:31:08 Please, consider your words. 06:31:10 This is a family channel. 06:31:25 Now just a gosh darn minute here! 06:31:28 (not *the* Family Channel, of course. Heh heh. Please don't sue, Google-using lawyers) 06:31:47 *gnomon* grins nervously 06:32:10 *Daemmerung* goes all DMCA on gnomon's ass 06:32:26 Not in my country, sucker! 06:32:50 -!- Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@abdallo.cs.unibo.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:32:52 Since when do puny national boundaries stop us?? 06:32:56 The wild northlands of Canuckistania recognize no such namby-pamby law, nor any law of its style. 06:32:58 BLAME CANADA 06:33:03 BLAME CANADA 06:33:12 It's not even a real country anyway! 06:33:32 Secret IP clauses in all USA international treaties say otherwise gnomon 06:33:37 Perky "Canada" Has Own Laws, Government 06:33:45 my little program is supposed to turn finite state machines into regular expressions, but I did literally *no* logical optimization 06:34:01 so for a two-state fsn, it gave a regex 6 lines long 06:34:13 synx, they're not secret: Canada has agreed to ratify copyright legislation to bring it into agreement with the WIPO treaty. However, there has been no such agreement made about the content of that legislation. 06:34:23 for a six state one however, it gave one that was 7175 lines :D 06:34:23 "Perky"? 06:34:41 aoeuid, DFA? 06:34:48 yes 06:34:50 M-O-U-S-E 06:34:56 Well, secret from me at any rate. Not like they're on the 10'oclock news, not that I'd know. 06:35:12 anyway 06:35:25 Our laws are all modern-like! 06:35:26 http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-42/index.html 06:35:28 D-M-C-A! D-M-C-A! *pumps fist* 06:35:40 It even looks like somebody's nephew did the HTML work. See, we're charming like that! 06:35:44 Y-M-C-A!! 06:36:00 Then there's Bill C-61 (http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=3570473&Mode=1&Language=E)... 06:36:01 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/6xqmcz 06:36:07 *gnomon* queues up the booing and the hissing 06:36:11 Well, he or she was probably somebody's nephew. Or nephewette. 06:36:42 "She turned me into a nephewette!" "..?" "...I got better." 06:37:36 See?? More British imperializingism. 06:38:11 Now, that's quite enough of that. You can't just go around making up words! 06:38:24 We all groan under the burden of the Python hegemony. 06:40:10 Hey not me. I thought python was awesome. Ran up against its limits. Got past it. 06:41:07 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:42:06 und now I am ze ubermensch 06:42:56 -!- LeCamarade [n=LeCamara@41.222.7.35] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:50:02 Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@abdallo.cs.unibo.it] has joined #scheme 06:54:23 LeCamarade [n=LeCamara@41.222.7.35] has joined #scheme 07:07:18 -!- LeCamarade [n=LeCamara@41.222.7.35] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:07:51 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 07:07:56 LeCamarade [n=LeCamara@41.222.7.35] has joined #scheme 07:16:27 -!- LeCamarade [n=LeCamara@41.222.7.35] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 07:17:31 LeCamarade [n=LeCamara@41.222.7.35] has joined #scheme 07:26:00 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 07:28:37 -!- underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has quit [] 07:29:51 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-100-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 07:30:01 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 07:31:04 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 07:36:16 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.104] has joined #scheme 07:38:49 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A0622.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 07:39:27 underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 07:40:27 jao [n=user@129.Red-83-42-110.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 07:46:32 -!- underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has quit [] 07:48:03 sili [n=sili@222.127.224.120] has joined #scheme 07:48:08 underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 07:49:09 is there a list of chez scheme extensions somewhere? 07:49:41 sili: Chez User's Guide on the site. 07:49:48 -!- LeCamarade [n=LeCamara@41.222.7.35] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:51:32 would that be in "Chapter 7. Operations on Objects"? I was looking for maybe user-contributed extensions and such 07:51:53 sili: What do you mean? 07:52:06 CSUG7 documents all the Chez Scheme extensions beyond R5RS. 07:52:32 For what other code has been written, you will find a lot of code will run on Chez. SRFIs for example, will largely work with minimal effort. 07:52:50 I have some code modules for some libraries at http://www.sacrideo.us 07:53:00 ok. thanks 07:53:21 sili: http://mumble.net/~campbell/ has plenty of portable code which mostly just works on Chez. 07:53:57 SLIB also runs in Chez. 07:54:28 gnomon: Leading our friend down a path of sorrow and pain I see. 07:54:33 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 07:54:37 It's what I do. 07:54:47 Few things teach as well as searing pain! 07:56:37 -!- underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has quit [] 07:58:11 Debolaz [n=debolaz@nat.andersberle.com] has joined #scheme 07:59:37 underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 08:00:20 -!- underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 08:02:16 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0537A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:10:21 underspecified [n=eric@clair18.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 08:21:17 morning ;) 08:22:02 hey ecraven 08:22:24 duncanm: what's up? been very busy with c++ lately, unfortunately, but our project will be over this friday 08:22:35 ecraven: come back to Scheme land! 08:22:51 i sincerely hope so 08:26:43 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:27:34 *duncanm* installed OpenStep on his virtualbox for fun 08:28:18 openstep? 08:28:50 yeah 08:28:54 "old school" 08:28:56 OpenStep 4.2 08:28:57 just looking at the wikipedia article 08:28:59 how is it? 08:29:06 ecraven: black and white 08:29:20 hehe, wikipedia has coloured screenshots 08:29:30 i think i can get color if i install this patch 08:29:36 but i couldn't get networking to work inside the VM 08:32:17 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 08:37:23 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0537A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 08:41:51 tizoc [n=user@r190-135-26-204.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 08:43:30 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@b415.adsl.ecomtel.com.au] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:47:20 -!- jao [n=user@129.Red-83-42-110.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:54:35 -!- sili [n=sili@222.127.224.120] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 08:59:03 -!- tizoc_ [n=user@r190-135-17-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:13:08 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-137.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 09:14:41 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:15:11 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 09:16:46 jao [n=user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 09:28:36 mudhoney [n=bryan@12-219-29-127.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 09:30:18 ejs [n=eugen@80.91.178.218] has joined #scheme 09:33:04 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:34:08 jgracin [n=jgracin@78-0-73-87.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 09:34:12 I want to write a procedure that takes in a cond expression, and returns an equivalent if expression. I'm not sure how to access the parameters inside the cond expression within my procedure. 09:34:26 any ideas? 09:43:28 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-852000cbc78917b5] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:54:22 Yes, don't do that. 09:58:08 write a macro 10:02:56 alright I'll look into macros, thanks 10:03:21 look at syntax-rules or any other hygienic macro system 10:03:36 ok 10:04:42 -!- ejs [n=eugen@80.91.178.218] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:05:57 -!- sm [n=sm@pool-71-104-90-184.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 10:08:32 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:18:36 athos [n=philipp@p54B86C60.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:19:03 ilSignorCarlo [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 10:21:02 cky [n=cky@202-74-219-83.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #scheme 10:22:24 ejs [n=eugen@80.91.178.218] has joined #scheme 10:28:21 kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43095.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 10:41:28 pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 10:45:37 -!- ilSignorCarlo [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 10:45:59 ilSignorCarlo [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 10:52:46 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:01:03 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:03:33 mbishop [n=martin@adsl-150-28-244.aby.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 11:17:25 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #scheme 11:20:42 -!- xhanjian [n=Jan@218.109.75.129] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:36:46 Okay. It's only 6G. 11:36:52 What gives! where's my space? 11:39:34 xwl [n=user@221.221.161.64] has joined #scheme 12:14:10 -!- xwl [n=user@221.221.161.64] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:25:37 dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:28:00 -!- pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 12:28:34 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 12:30:37 ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has joined #scheme 12:36:00 yhara [n=yhara@84.215.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:40:01 -!- athos [n=philipp@p54B86C60.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:41:16 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 12:42:02 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:42:30 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD059133117089.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 12:43:12 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:43:30 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14:18:46 bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 14:26:04 -!- athos [n=philipp@p54B87510.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 14:28:00 xhanjian [n=Jan@218.109.66.95] has joined #scheme 14:35:09 right under your zxcvbnm,. keys 14:35:39 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 14:36:06 hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has joined #scheme 14:37:17 hehe, the feeling of writing several interlocked c++ template classes that you won't understand any longer tomorrow is interesting 14:37:28 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net2.senecac.on.ca] has joined #scheme 14:42:44 langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 14:43:35 the feeling of poking yourself in the eye with a ballpoint pen is interesting 14:44:10 both are quite comparable i'd say, though i never tried the latter 14:47:51 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052011.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 14:50:31 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@nmd.sbx06329.dallatx.wayport.net] has quit [] 14:51:09 -!- 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tizoc 17:53:51 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-100-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:57:33 -!- schumaml [i=c19b5f04@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3d0d0726795e30fb] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 17:58:18 -!- benny` [n=benny@i577A128C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:59:23 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:05:35 -!- xhanjian [n=Jan@218.109.66.95] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:05:57 lisppaste: url 18:05:58 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 18:07:51 tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has joined #scheme 18:08:56 -!- jao [n=user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:12:07 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055F3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:14:05 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:15:24 mbishop [n=martin@adsl-150-28-244.aby.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 18:18:21 vasa [n=vasa@93.84.243.140] has joined #scheme 18:20:00 Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-4-137.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 18:28:00 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #scheme 18:35:46 -!- sodio [n=sodio@netblock-63-66-64-29.myitdepartment.net] has quit [] 18:37:42 -!- cubix [n=cubix@bas21-toronto12-1279686855.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 18:38:12 fnordb [i=c7aca924@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-15e562b0788c416d] has joined #scheme 18:39:16 cubix [n=cubix@bas21-toronto12-1279686855.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 18:42:49 aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has joined #scheme 18:43:47 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055F3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:48:01 GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.180.25] has joined #scheme 18:48:08 hwo can I do something like (define-syntax foo 18:48:08 (lambda (stx) 18:48:08 (syntax-case stx () 18:48:08 ((foo bar) 18:48:10 (if (list? bar) 18:48:14 (syntax 1) 18:48:18 (syntax 2)))))) 18:48:20 ouch 18:48:22 sorry 18:48:24 http://pastebin.com/m26b0dac0 * 18:50:23 lisppaste: url? 18:50:23 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 18:50:56 -!- aoeuid [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-247.ST.HMC.Edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:52:31 GrayShade: perhaps you want syntax->datum 18:53:39 chandler: as in (syntax->datum bar) ? 18:53:50 Yes. 18:54:57 oh, (syntax->datum (syntax bar)) 18:55:04 thanks 18:58:03 hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has joined #scheme 18:58:07 er, that's it 18:58:42 it would be easier to do 2 clauses :) 18:59:14 (foo (bar ...)) #'1 18:59:29 (foo bar) #'2 18:59:46 I know, but I can't use ... 19:00:23 I have a macro that's defining another macro and I'd need the ellipsis in the inner one 19:00:25 then u could nest another syntax acse 19:00:35 case 19:01:02 instead of the if statement 19:01:13 expression 19:01:16 :) 19:01:20 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-4-137.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:01:52 -!- aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:04:06 what should I read to learn about Scheme macros? the PLT documentation is a bit arid 19:04:35 i dunno, i have fought long battles 19:07:00 http://www.xs4all.nl/~hipster/lib/scheme/gauche/define-syntax-primer.txt 19:07:08 That's a good doc 19:07:25 thanks 19:07:29 And for syntax-case, read TSPL, cited in this channel's #topic. 19:09:09 xah_lee [n=x_a_h@c-24-6-185-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:09:38 hi, can i ask a bit off topic question about stdin and stdout on Windows? 19:10:03 can a macro call itself? 19:10:09 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #scheme 19:10:10 sure GrayShade 19:10:48 well you could call it repeated, or loop with syntax-case 19:11:23 ok xah_lee, shoot 19:11:37 leppie, on unix-like systems, one can write a program so it accept input from stdin and output in stdout. How's this done in Windows? 19:11:50 exactly the same 19:12:29 can u show a simple scheme example? perhaps just few lines showing how it accept input from stdin? 19:12:40 and that code would work both in unix and win? 19:12:51 (read-char) or (read) 19:13:07 or (write-char) 19:13:21 the default to standard oprts 19:13:23 ports 19:13:32 they default to standard ports 19:13:41 (let ((i (read (current-input-port)))) (if (number? i) (+ 1 i) 42)) 19:14:14 kk. thx. 19:14:23 but calling either of those 2 read procedure on the REPL is asking for shit :p 19:15:26 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 19:17:19 Xion345 [n=Xion345@stang.ens.insa-rennes.fr] has joined #scheme 19:17:53 Hello world 19:19:18 Can I ask a warped question ? 19:19:50 why do people always ask if the can ask a question? :] 19:20:15 because people like being meta 19:20:18 you came here to ask it, so ask :p 19:20:26 :-), Okay, thank you 19:20:41 I would like to transform a string into an identifier 19:20:53 string->symbol 19:21:19 I tried this one buy if I do : (define test 42) 19:21:32 and (string->symbol "test") 19:21:42 It does not return 42 but test 19:21:48 *leppie* answered too soon :) 19:22:07 you would need to eval the symbol 19:22:51 Xion345: what are you trying to do? What problem are you trying to solve? Bad, BAD code smell here. 19:23:21 Daemmerung, It just for fun 19:23:28 I guess its bad ! 19:23:45 Fun is bad. 19:23:56 *Daemmerung* scowls disapprovingly 19:25:41 exactly its not a bad exercise to see the difference between code and data, and disprove the common misconception that code and data is mixed is Scheme 19:26:00 s/is/in/ 19:28:30 -!- Kinks [n=Kinks@uc087.housing.umanitoba.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:29:21 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:31:03 Kinks [n=Kinks@uc087.housing.umanitoba.ca] has joined #scheme 19:31:37 hm, is there an easy way to convert hard line breaks to soft ones? 19:32:05 (not related to Scheme) 19:32:31 i have never heard of that terminology 19:33:02 is that liek different line-endings? 19:33:44 that page about macros is a text file that has been word-wrapped by the editor 19:34:24 i see 19:34:26 I wanted to print it, but the lines are too short because of that 19:34:30 leppie, I can't make what you told me work : (define (eval (string->symbol "test")) 42) doesn't work 19:34:52 Xion345: i never said you could do that :) 19:35:20 leppie, Yes I guess I didn't really understand :-) 19:35:40 i know some scheme's allow that, or at least i recall something liek that 19:35:56 but i have never used that 19:36:14 you could do a macro, perhaps? 19:36:30 like (define-string "test" 42) 19:37:21 I don't know what macros are... Beginner. I am going to look how does it work 19:37:53 like Daemmerung said, Bad, BAD code smell here. 19:39:24 :-D 19:40:51 -!- Xion345 [n=Xion345@stang.ens.insa-rennes.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:41:36 Xion345 [n=Xion345@stang.ens.insa-rennes.fr] has joined #scheme 19:42:42 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-116-90.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:43:10 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-127-174.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 19:43:26 So, yes... I think I have to admit that what I want to do is not really the "scheme way" of doing things 19:43:37 But, macros are exactly what I want to do 19:43:53 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:47:00 is there a way to thunk lists that you plan to eval? e.g. to turn '(+ 1 2 3) into an expression and evaluate it, you use (eval '(1 2 3)). But what if you want to delay the evaluation, but not the conversion from list to expression? 19:49:45 e.g.: (define-syntax create-fun (syntax-rules () ((create-fun (a ...)) (lambda () (a ...))))) ; except... er.. working 19:55:31 i guess I would just try to omit the quotation 19:56:25 you can use (delay (+ 1 2 3)) 19:56:53 then call (force x) where x is the return value 19:57:09 it will execute it in the context it was created 20:03:46 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055F3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:08:52 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:12:23 jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless142.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 20:15:05 aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has joined #scheme 20:15:34 -!- vasa [n=vasa@93.84.243.140] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 20:16:05 Daemmerung pasted "For Xion345 - synthesizing an identifier" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68645 20:17:36 Thanks Daemmerung 20:19:50 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:20:12 -!- pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has left #scheme 20:24:57 BW^- [i=Miranda@79.138.209.19.bredband.tre.se] has joined #scheme 20:25:23 is there any scheme environment around that a) outputs C code, b) uses pthreads natively, like c++ or java apps use to do, and c) that produces very small binaries ? 20:26:33 BW^-: I think Bigloo satisfies those requirements 20:26:50 does bigloo output c code? 20:29:01 -!- ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:31:10 BW^-: Yes. 20:32:09 Yes. With the -cgen flag. And it makes small executables. e.g. echo '(module a) (display "hello world")' > a.scm; bigloo a.scm # yields a.out w/ a size of 4560 on my machine. 20:32:40 I have also another stupid question : Is there any way to make DrScheme recall the last typed expression when pressing "up" 20:33:07 I haven't used threads in bigloo, though. So that might be an issue. However, it also compiles to jvm and .net so you can certainly use threads on those platforms. 20:35:05 very cool! 20:35:19 anyone has an idea on how bigloo relates to the pthreads? 20:35:36 does it create an instance of the garbage collector upon pthread creation? 20:36:39 "during initialization of a large signed application through webstart, garbage collection can and will cause the weak references to be cleared, causing the following NullPointerException. Settings the JNLP startup flags to include "-Xms256m" provides enough memory that the weak references are not cleared during startup." 20:36:46 And this is why I hate java 20:37:07 Xion345: Ctrl-Up 20:39:43 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:43:04 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:46:12 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-162-204.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:46:36 -!- cubix [n=cubix@bas21-toronto12-1279686855.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 20:47:38 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@2001:470:d0be:0:0:0:0:13] has joined #scheme 20:49:23 bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 20:52:10 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["bye now"] 20:53:17 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:55:12 synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.20.12] has joined #scheme 20:58:03 -!- GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.180.25] has quit [] 21:01:14 mbishop [n=martin@c-75-65-113-237.hsd1.la.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:04:28 mbishop_ [n=martin@adsl-150-28-244.aby.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 21:09:17 Good night everybody 21:09:44 -!- Xion345 [n=Xion345@stang.ens.insa-rennes.fr] has left #scheme 21:10:25 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055F3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:12:05 jao [n=user@224.Red-83-38-59.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:18:54 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:19:15 -!- aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:22:53 offby1: ping? 21:29:40 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-162-204.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:30:40 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 21:39:18 pong 21:57:46 fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-125-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 21:58:32 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 21:59:25 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 22:00:03 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Client Quit] 22:03:21 does anyone have an idea how to compile (display "Hello world") in bigloo? 22:03:46 -!- langmartin [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:03:53 eli: semi-pong; I'm at work and usually don't IRC during work hours. 22:04:11 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 22:06:40 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:08:04 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@12-187-217-2.att-inc.com] has quit [] 22:08:48 offby1: Not really that important -- but if you get to it: whats tyhe memory size limit you put on rudybot's sandboxes? 22:09:44 eli: dunno offhand 22:09:59 (sandbox-eval-limits '(2 20)) 22:10:10 rudybot: eval (let loop ((foo '())) (loop (cons '() foo))) 22:10:13 I suspect one of those numbers is the answer you're looking for (one is probably time, the other memory, right?) 22:10:25 chandler: error: with-limit: out of memory 22:10:35 boom! 22:10:37 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:11:08 Binary search! 22:12:18 rudybot: eval (let loop ((foo '()) (limit (expt 2 20))) (if (eqv? limit 0) limit (loop (cons '() foo) (- limit 1)))) 22:12:18 chandler: ; Value: 0 22:12:35 rudybot: eval (let loop ((foo '()) (limit (expt 2 24))) (if (eqv? limit 0) limit (loop (cons '() foo) (- limit 1)))) 22:12:36 chandler: error: with-limit: out of memory 22:12:40 aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has joined #scheme 22:12:48 rudybot: eval (let loop ((foo '()) (limit (expt 2 22))) (if (eqv? limit 0) limit (loop (cons '() foo) (- limit 1)))) 22:12:49 chandler: ; Value: 0 22:12:59 rudybot: eval (let loop ((foo '()) (limit (expt 2 23))) (if (eqv? limit 0) limit (loop (cons '() foo) (- limit 1)))) 22:13:01 chandler: error: with-limit: out of memory 22:13:17 rudybot: eval (let loop ((foo '()) (limit (+ (expt 2 22) (expt 2 21)))) (if (eqv? limit 0) limit (loop (cons '() foo) (- limit 1)))) 22:13:18 chandler: error: with-limit: out of memory 22:13:24 So it's probably 2^24 words or so. 22:13:32 rudybot: eval (let loop ((foo '()) (limit (+ (expt 2 22) (expt 2 19)))) (if (eqv? limit 0) limit (loop (cons '() foo) (- limit 1)))) 22:13:34 chandler: ; Value: 0 22:13:45 rudybot: eval (let loop ((foo '()) (limit (+ (expt 2 22) (expt 2 20)))) (if (eqv? limit 0) limit (loop (cons '() foo) (- limit 1)))) 22:13:48 chandler: error: with-limit: out of memory 22:14:12 That's as much detail as I care to test it to. 22:17:03 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:24:02 offby1: Yes, 2 seconds, 20mb -- thanks 22:26:27 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:30:32 -!- bweaver [n=bweaver@75.148.111.133] has quit [] 22:31:51 BW^-: http://pastebin.com/da0b301b 22:32:22 fnordb: thanks! 22:36:13 benny [n=benny@i577A134C.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 22:37:01 aoeuid__ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-247.ST.HMC.Edu] has joined #scheme 22:42:30 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 22:43:35 very cool, worked well in windows as well. 22:43:42 and (display "Hello world") made a 6KB exe (!) 22:43:48 no dll usage, afaikl 22:44:31 is that large or small on windows? 22:45:37 wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has joined #scheme 22:45:48 a simple C executable is about 6k on linux. 22:45:56 it's very small for windows. 22:46:07 so bigloo doesn't need any runtime stuff really, huh? 22:46:17 i saw call/cc is an extra option. :-) 22:48:10 -!- xah_lee [n=x_a_h@c-24-6-185-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["banned in #emacs by johnsu01 (john sullivan)"] 22:48:23 do you have unix utils on your machine? run ldd to see if the two shared libraries it needs. libbigloo_s-2.8c.so and libbigloogc-2.8c.so 22:48:44 -!- aoeuid_ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-220.ST.HMC.Edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:49:14 When I run w/ the -static-bigloo flag, I see it taking up 820k on my machine. 22:51:20 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:54:13 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 22:54:27 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 22:59:28 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-95-99.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:59:38 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:59:43 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:01:37 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-108-235-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 23:09:25 -!- borism [n=boris@allikas.gospa.ee] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 23:09:27 ilSignor1arlo [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 23:11:21 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@wireless142.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:14:23 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:18:17 -!- aoeuid__ [n=aoeuid@DHCP-60-247.ST.HMC.Edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:19:49 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:20:07 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 23:21:27 -!- ilSignorCarlo [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:22:15 in syntax-rules, it appears that I can't have pattern matching like (syntax-rules () ((blah a b) "different")) ((blah a a) "same")). Is it possible to compare parsed token values at macro expansion time? 23:22:40 Yes, but it's non-trivial. 23:28:26 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@dslb-088-068-125-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:28:34 know of any sweet papers on it? 23:28:49 or is it something that comes with years of deep knowledge 23:29:48 Well, it depends on what level of comparison you're interested in. 23:29:53 fnordb: if you grok the works of Oleg K. in fulness, you'll have the deep knowledge. 23:30:10 Comparing strings is not possible. 23:30:22 In fact, comparing anything other than names is not possible. 23:30:36 Comparing anything other than trees of lists and vectors containing names, I mean. 23:30:50 ok well id like variable - value comparisons so I guess I'm SooL :) 23:31:01 `Variable - value comparisons'? 23:31:45 Pray elaborate. 23:32:02 -!- ilSignor1arlo [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:32:09 (let ((x 1)) (eq? x 1)) 23:32:40 on a macro level, I think something like eq? will not be possible 23:32:46 Can you explain what you are looking for in a complete English sentence, assuming that I am incapable of generalizing from a single concrete example that only tangentially is related to macros? 23:34:53 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 23:35:08 Sure. At macro time, I'd like to take a bound name and use pattern matching to compare the name against possible values. For example, if I had a syntax-rule with a 0 in it, I would have liked it to match any time that I passed a bound variable with the value 0 23:35:52 That is fundamentally nonsensical. The values don't even *exist* by the time that the macro is expanded. 23:36:27 The reason I would have liked to do this is that I'm doing a 'search and replace' for values in the body of some code at macro-expansion time, and moving between macros and runtime expressions was very difficult. I thought it might be possible to do it all at macro expansion time. 23:37:08 When Scheme expands, say, (LET ((X 1)) (M X)), first it will usually expand that to ((LAMBDA (X) (M X)) 1) and descend into the body of the lambda. 23:37:50 In the body of the lambda, all that the macro expander knows is that the name X means a variable binding. Its value is not in general knowable to the macro-expander; one might substitute for 1, (LAUNCH-THE-MISSILES). What value will that have, before the program has been run? 23:38:23 'THE-ONLY-WAY-TO-WIN-IS-NOT-TO-PLAY 23:38:49 *Riastradh* vanishes. 23:39:02 Uh oh. He's going to launch the missiles! 23:39:09 at me 23:39:23 Heh. No, not at you. 23:39:38 But I don't understand what you're trying to do, or why you think it's possible to do this at macro-expansion time at all. 23:40:07 I didn't think it would be possible at expansion time. I would have liked to be able to do something like that at expansion time. :) 23:40:37 or rather, I would have liked my trouble of moving between macro-expansion-time and runtime to go away 23:43:53 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:44:51 -!- kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43095.access.telenet.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"]