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I read porting.html but it looks like it's extremely out of date information. http://sbcl.org/porting.html 2016-03-01T02:49:41Z aeth: 9 years out of date if "as of January 2007" is an indicator. 2016-03-01T02:53:15Z |3b|: probably hasn't changed too much since then, just more ports already done 2016-03-01T02:53:53Z |3b|: write lots of VOPs, figure out how to interact with the ABI, stuff like that 2016-03-01T02:54:12Z |3b|: more if it doesn't have enough registers available 2016-03-01T02:56:18Z aeth: Going through the git, it looks like what gets ported is: sbcl/src/assembly/foo/, sbcl/src/compiler/foo/ and sbcl/src/runtime/foo-* 2016-03-01T02:57:12Z |3b|: yeah, i guess i skipped the 'figure out which port to start from' step :) 2016-03-01T02:59:01Z |3b|: might help to port assembler/disassembler too 2016-03-01T03:18:28Z mateuszb joined #sbcl 2016-03-01T03:22:12Z loke: |3b|: what platform are you looking at? 2016-03-01T03:22:43Z |3b| isn't, aeth was asking about it 2016-03-01T03:22:48Z aeth: loke: it was my question 2016-03-01T03:23:04Z loke: aeth: Right. 2016-03-01T03:23:13Z loke: what platform are you looking at? 2016-03-01T03:25:54Z aeth: loke: RISC-V. I'm interested in open source hardware and that seems to be the new hot CPU instruction set for open source hardware even though I don't think any actual hardware is out yet. 2016-03-01T03:25:58Z aeth: so e.g. http://www.lowrisc.org/ 2016-03-01T03:26:25Z loke: At least there must be an emulator? 2016-03-01T03:26:28Z aeth: (Some of the people from the Raspberry Pi are apparently behind that particular project, so there might be some Internet hype around it when it launches, which probably won't be sooner than 2017.) 2016-03-01T03:26:40Z aeth: loke: there is. https://github.com/riscv/riscv-qemu 2016-03-01T03:26:43Z aeth: Also FPGAs, I think. 2016-03-01T03:27:00Z aeth: Porting will take a long time, but maybe there will be something usable by the time there's a usable RISC-V. 2016-03-01T03:28:32Z aeth: It doesn't look like the lowRISC is going to ship with a GPU, but I don't really care because I run my raspberry pi headless (I currently am using it for IRC, including this IRC session right now) 2016-03-01T03:29:19Z |3b|: looks like 31GPRs,so that's good at least :) 2016-03-01T03:29:23Z aeth: But if some hardware doesn't run sbcl, there isn't really much to do on it imo. Even other CLs don't always run everything in Quicklisp since SBCL seems to be the de facto standard implementation these days. 2016-03-01T03:30:13Z aeth: I'm kind of guilty of this, too. I have some unpublished Lisp stuff that is unported and only really designed with SBCL in mind. 2016-03-01T03:30:43Z |3b|: heh, you can run it in browser too :p 2016-03-01T03:31:10Z |3b|: 20.67 bogoMIPS 2016-03-01T03:31:29Z aeth: RISC-V seems like the most promising recent open hardware development. Unfortunately, there is no serious open hardware GPU architecture to complement it. 2016-03-01T03:32:08Z |3b|: 10240k might be a bit low, but can probably change that 2016-03-01T03:33:36Z aeth: |3b|: where did you find the browser version? 2016-03-01T03:33:49Z Bike: aeth: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?arnumber=7095803 offtopic 2016-03-01T03:35:43Z |3b|: http://riscv.org/angel-simulator/ linked from http://riscv.org/specifications/ 2016-03-01T03:36:57Z csziacobus quit (Quit: csziacobus) 2016-03-01T03:37:18Z csziacobus joined #sbcl 2016-03-01T03:37:50Z csziacobus quit (Client Quit) 2016-03-01T03:37:59Z aeth: Bike: I found a few open source GPUs but they don't seem to be as mature/serious as RISC-V is for CPUs, and some of them are very outdated and/or dead projects. 2016-03-01T03:38:31Z aeth: RISC-V looks like it could be serious competition with ARM, e.g. Google's a member of its foundation. http://riscv.org/membership/?action=viewlistings 2016-03-01T03:38:41Z aeth: Which is basically 1/2 of the mobile OS industry. 2016-03-01T03:39:33Z nicdev` is now known as nicdev 2016-03-01T03:43:57Z aeth: |3b|: thanks... 2016-03-01T03:44:12Z aeth: too bad they have almost nothing on there.... vi seems to be the only significant thing there 2016-03-01T03:46:54Z aeth: I was wondering how you were getting 20.67 when I was only getting 3.18. Apparently it only runs well in Chrome where I get 20.76. 2016-03-01T03:47:44Z |3b| is using firefox 2016-03-01T03:48:00Z aeth: Strange. I get "ANGEL performs optimally on Google Chrome. Users of other browsers may observe severely decreased performance." and 3.18 MIPS 2016-03-01T03:48:03Z |3b|: maybe better CPU or something 2016-03-01T03:48:23Z aeth: i7-4790k (Haswell) 2016-03-01T03:48:25Z aeth: you? 2016-03-01T03:48:33Z |3b|: hmm, same on chrome 2016-03-01T03:49:08Z |3b|: i7-4710hq, so i guess yours is better 2016-03-01T03:49:25Z |3b|: windows vs linux maybe? on win8.1 here 2016-03-01T03:49:28Z aeth: Probably 2016-03-01T03:49:35Z aeth: I have the latest Firefox 2016-03-01T03:49:45Z aeth: I'm on Fedora here. 2016-03-01T03:50:17Z aeth: Btw, the only reason I have a good CPU is because I got a Haswell when everyone else was getting Skylakes. So I miss out on USB Type-C and DDR4 but not much else. 2016-03-01T03:51:13Z aeth: I hope the QEMU one has something more substantial. I'll compile it soon, maybe. 2016-03-01T04:00:09Z aeth: It looks like sbcl only needs glibc and sh? 2016-03-01T04:00:59Z hydan joined #sbcl 2016-03-01T05:14:54Z hydan quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-01T05:18:43Z myrkraverk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-03-01T05:20:32Z myrkraverk joined #sbcl 2016-03-01T05:39:39Z myrkraverk quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-01T05:40:55Z myrkraverk joined #sbcl 2016-03-01T05:50:58Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-03-01T06:01:42Z p_l quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-01T06:03:52Z p_l joined #sbcl 2016-03-01T06:04:01Z myrkraverk quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-03-01T06:05:57Z myrkraverk joined #sbcl 2016-03-01T06:13:36Z myrkraverk quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-01T07:04:42Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-01T07:21:12Z Shinmera joined #sbcl 2016-03-01T07:33:42Z DeadTrickster joined #sbcl 2016-03-01T07:46:39Z hydan joined #sbcl 2016-03-01T08:04:19Z 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timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-03T11:04:15Z moore33 joined #sbcl 2016-03-03T11:14:01Z moore33: Hey, is work going forward on the the 32 bit ARM port? I'm selfishly interested, having a Tegra-based Chromebook. 2016-03-03T11:14:45Z flip214: moore33: there *is* a 32bit ARM port. It's just missing threads. 2016-03-03T11:15:00Z flip214: I'm using it already on my Raspberry. 2016-03-03T11:16:48Z moore33: flip214: Hence my question, "is work going forward?" A casual browse of the sources via gitweb shows a lot more recent work on ARM64, including e.g. threads. 2016-03-03T11:18:07Z moore33: CCL (with threads) is working well for me at the moment, but I'm trying to learn more about low-level ARM stuff and, due to long-time familiarity, would be more likely to explore that through SBCL than CCL. 2016-03-03T11:33:22Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-03T11:49:13Z scymtym: moore33: i think Xof recently did some work to free up a register for threading-related data 2016-03-03T11:52:34Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-03-03T11:52:55Z DGASAU joined #sbcl 2016-03-03T11:55:25Z moore33: scymtym:cool. 2016-03-03T11:58:44Z Xof: I did 2016-03-03T11:58:59Z Xof: I "just" (ILTWIS"J") need to find the time and motivation to do some more work 2016-03-03T11:59:24Z Xof: or if someone else wants to do the difficult half of the work, that's great too 2016-03-03T12:00:16Z flip214: Xof: how about an amazon voucher, $10 or €10? is that enough motivation? 2016-03-03T12:00:30Z Xof: sadly not 2016-03-03T12:00:50Z Xof: a feeling that someone, anyone, actually cares is more helpful in that respect 2016-03-03T12:01:32Z Xof: time is more likely to be the problem. (Sufficient money can buy time, but unfortunately my employer thinks that my time is expensive) 2016-03-03T12:01:51Z flip214: well, do you, or does your family believe that, too? 2016-03-03T12:02:01Z hydan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-03T12:02:02Z flip214: your opinion would be the most important in that respect... 2016-03-03T12:02:36Z Xof: I'm not quite ready to flip the switch into low-paid SBCL consultancy, if that's what you mean 2016-03-03T12:02:50Z Xof: I have seen too many attempts at that crash and burn :-( 2016-03-03T12:03:36Z Xof: I might have a bit more discretionary time over the summer 2016-03-03T12:04:44Z moore33: I suppose it's reasonable to wonder for how long 32 bit ARM will be relevant for Lisp users. 2016-03-03T12:05:14Z flip214: moore33: well, quite a lot of smartphones use that now... 2016-03-03T12:05:33Z moore33: Also to wonder if there's much in common between the ARM64 and ARM in this regard. 2016-03-03T12:05:34Z flip214: as hardware to tinker with they'll be around for quite some years, IMO 2016-03-03T12:06:27Z moore33: flip214: I'm sure. But as an interesting Lisp target? 2016-03-03T12:06:44Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-03T12:08:31Z flip214: well, as soon as there's some support for all the sensors and hardware gimmicks... 2016-03-03T12:08:46Z moore33: stassats: I was just asking about the arm 32 bit port. I see that you've been doing recent work on arm64. 2016-03-03T12:08:53Z flip214: where do you get a camera, GPS, motion sensors (gravity!), etc. for nearly no $$$? 2016-03-03T12:10:08Z stassats: moore33: i no longer care about arm 32 2016-03-03T12:10:13Z moore33: flip214: That's all fine, but my interest is a bit different: excellent graphics in a super-lightweight laptop running Linux. 2016-03-03T12:10:21Z moore33: stassats: Well alright then. 2016-03-03T12:11:14Z stassats: even rpi is now 64-bit 2016-03-03T12:11:15Z moore33: stassats: ARM noobie question: Is there enough commonality with arm64 to make "backporting" e.g. thread support a reasonable job? 2016-03-03T12:12:30Z stassats: not really 2016-03-03T12:12:50Z stassats: well, if you were the one to implement threads on arm64, then yes, the second time would be easier 2016-03-03T12:12:56Z stassats: but no, i don't want to do that 2016-03-03T12:13:34Z stassats: but, there's not much architecture specific code, it's just things have to be changed 2016-03-03T12:13:57Z moore33: Yeah, I was looking at your arm64 threads commit. 2016-03-03T12:26:43Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-03T12:27:04Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-03T12:31:33Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-03T12:32:34Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - 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Is this possible if I use -mfloat-abi=soft? How do I introduce that flag into the build? 2016-03-04T10:17:50Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-04T10:19:14Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-04T10:20:09Z Xof: keb: I don't think we support non-hard-float 2016-03-04T10:25:37Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-03-04T10:26:42Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-04T10:31:17Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-04T10:32:44Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-04T10:37:24Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-03-04T10:37:44Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-04T10:39:28Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-04T10:39:28Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2016-03-04T10:39:28Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-04T10:40:17Z ralt left #sbcl 2016-03-04T10:41:10Z stassats: there's even less motivation for no-vfp arms than for arm32 2016-03-04T10:41:10Z minion: stassats, memo from drmeister: Rehashing on every GC didn't fix the problem - the same kinds of random crashes take place. So I added a uint64 to every header and for every allocation I write a unique uint64 global_next_unique_id into that slot (incrementing global_next_unique_id each time). 2016-03-04T10:41:10Z minion: stassats, memo from drmeister: I use the unique id in each header as the hash key for hash-tables. Now things are compiling fine. So it's something to do with location dependency, rehashing on stale pointers or something related to that. 2016-03-04T10:41:10Z minion: stassats, memo from drmeister: I pushed the change to mps-dev. 2016-03-04T10:41:10Z minion: stassats, memo from drmeister: If you pull it and go: make clean; make mps-all - it should build all of clasp using the MPS garbage collector from start to finish. I'm running it tonight for the first time to test it. 2016-03-04T10:41:18Z stassats: (sorry about that) 2016-03-04T11:34:07Z keb: Xof: is it because sbcl generates the floating point code rather than gcc? i know very little about sbcl, just trying to build it as a dep. 2016-03-04T11:34:29Z stassats: sbcl generates all the code 2016-03-04T11:34:54Z keb: yeah ok thats what i figured. thanks. 2016-03-04T11:45:06Z keb quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-03-04T13:14:03Z hydan joined #sbcl 2016-03-04T13:19:06Z scymtym_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-04T13:38:04Z stassats: more compact xrefs save 256K on a core with most of the contribs loaded 2016-03-04T13:38:10Z stassats: can be even more compact 2016-03-04T13:38:18Z stassats: but at the cost of slower processing 2016-03-04T13:43:54Z stassats: what if instead of declining to stack allocate vectors at compile-time, the decision is postponed until run-time? 2016-03-04T13:45:11Z stassats: an assembly routine would be ideal for that, but that means writing it for 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2016-03-05T00:05:49Z aeth: I wonder if it's close enough that a port could actually be started from the MIPS port. 2016-03-05T00:07:28Z myrkraverk joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T00:13:02Z aeth: Their qemu version doesn't even compile on my machine so I might have to wait until lowrisc ships before I can attempt a port. I guess stassats was right. 2016-03-05T00:15:22Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-05T00:36:31Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2016-03-05T00:42:43Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-05T01:24:03Z lnostdal_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-05T01:39:23Z lnostdal_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T02:04:32Z mateuszb quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2016-03-05T02:05:13Z mateuszb joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T02:21:19Z mateuszb quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2016-03-05T02:21:34Z mateuszb joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T02:35:38Z hydan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-05T02:37:06Z hydan joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T02:59:14Z luis` is now known as luis 2016-03-05T03:52:35Z hydan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-05T04:18:57Z mateuszb quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2016-03-05T04:34:54Z akkad quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-05T04:36:03Z Intensity quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-05T04:46:42Z Intensity joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T04:50:29Z akkad joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T05:37:03Z aeth: Is long-float different on different platforms? Is long-float equivalent to double-float or is it a quadruple float where available? 2016-03-05T05:38:04Z aeth: i.e. is long-float double-float or does "long" mean "longest"? 2016-03-05T05:43:09Z aeth: There's a lot of long-float code in src/compiler/sparc/float.lisp which is an architecture that does support quadruple floats, but no mention of "quad" in that file 2016-03-05T05:43:47Z karswell` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-05T05:43:48Z aeth: SPARC would be the only platform in SBCL where this is relevant at the moment based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadruple-precision_floating-point_format#Hardware_support 2016-03-05T06:01:29Z aeth: oh, it is 2016-03-05T06:01:48Z salva joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T06:04:19Z aeth: line 801-803 strongly hints at this because I'm guessing s stands for single, d for double, and q for quadruple 2016-03-05T06:21:58Z igajsin left #sbcl 2016-03-05T06:50:21Z angavrilov joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T07:36:05Z gingerale joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T08:01:25Z slyrus joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T08:17:56Z DeadTrickster_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T08:25:22Z christoph_debian quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-05T08:33:11Z Shinmera joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T08:34:02Z Xof: I don't think we support distinct long-floats on any platforms. (CMUCL on Sparc does). 2016-03-05T08:46:36Z lnostdal__ joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T08:49:37Z lnostdal_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-05T08:57:14Z ASau joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T09:10:34Z salva quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-05T09:13:03Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T10:00:39Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-05T10:00:39Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-05T10:04:38Z specbot joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T10:04:38Z minion joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T10:04:50Z aeth: Xof: well, it's there https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/master/src/compiler/sparc/float.lisp 2016-03-05T10:04:55Z aeth: whether or not it's supported idk 2016-03-05T10:11:18Z aeth: RISC-V has quad-precision floating-point (page 67 in the PDF, which is really page 75). http://riscv.org/specifications/ 2016-03-05T10:11:26Z aeth: POWER9 is adding it, too. 2016-03-05T10:11:36Z aeth: So it's not just SPARC anymore. 2016-03-05T10:11:55Z stassats: too bad none of those really matter anymore 2016-03-05T10:12:51Z aeth: Well, technically RISC-V never mattered. :p 2016-03-05T10:18:43Z yvm joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T10:23:33Z aeth: RISC-V is only about 4 years behind ARM right now. Definitely usable once something ships. 2016-03-05T10:23:57Z stassats: 4 years behind? what does that mean? 2016-03-05T10:24:10Z aeth: The chip they compare the Rocket (prototype) chip to is from 2011 2016-03-05T10:24:14Z stassats: in 4 years it will be used on almost all smartphones? 2016-03-05T10:24:14Z aeth: in terms of MIPS 2016-03-05T10:24:24Z aeth: https://github.com/ucb-bar/rocket 2016-03-05T10:24:27Z aeth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_second#Timeline_of_instructions_per_second 2016-03-05T10:24:58Z aeth: not really quite 4 years behind, since the chip they use is 64 bit, and probably going to be more than one core 2016-03-05T10:27:23Z aeth: That was also not at the right node, I think they're going to be shipping at 28nm, not 40nm 2016-03-05T10:28:30Z aeth: That's also a hobbyist chip, who knows what Google or Oracle or HP is going to make. 2016-03-05T10:37:24Z aeth: s/a hobbyist chip/a chip aimed at hobbyists 2016-03-05T10:37:55Z stassats: is that its goal? 2016-03-05T10:38:55Z aeth: It's the goal of the only user I know of that chip, at least. 2016-03-05T10:39:10Z aeth: lowRISC is using the reference Rocket chip. I think (not sure) that the other members are making their own 2016-03-05T10:39:12Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T10:41:45Z aeth: RISC-V is an open source standard for ISA. Rocket is an open source implementation of that. LowRISC is an open source SOC (and board?) implementation of that. It is confusing. 2016-03-05T10:42:47Z aeth: A lot of RISC-V is aimed at "internet of things" because based on what I've read about the semiconductor industory that's what the investors want to hear. That's also why a brand new ISA has a 32 bit version. 2016-03-05T10:42:57Z aeth: s/industory/industry 2016-03-05T10:43:11Z aeth: sometimes I type faster than my brain 2016-03-05T10:43:34Z stassats: "internet of things", not that abomination! 2016-03-05T10:44:42Z aeth: If I port sbcl to rv32 then you can run Lisp on the internet of things. Not sure what use it would get you other than getting into Y Combinator. :p 2016-03-05T10:45:23Z stassats: well, it'll get you security problems, that's for sure 2016-03-05T10:45:49Z aeth: The internet of things itself gives you security problems. That's not sbcl's fault. 2016-03-05T10:47:06Z stassats: can you port sbcl to pen and paper? 2016-03-05T10:48:06Z aeth: Assuming papers are 0s, pens are 1s, and they're on a conveyer belt? 2016-03-05T12:43:34Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-05T14:04:31Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-03-05T14:05:27Z slyrus_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T14:07:03Z slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 2016-03-05T14:54:03Z lnostdal__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-05T15:06:20Z slyrus_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T15:07:39Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-05T15:07:53Z slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 2016-03-05T15:12:38Z lnostdal__ joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T15:36:14Z slyrus_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T15:38:33Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-05T15:38:43Z slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 2016-03-05T15:48:53Z lnostdal_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T15:52:03Z lnostdal__ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-05T16:01:46Z lnostdal__ joined #sbcl 2016-03-05T16:02:11Z 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1) exponent)) (eql 0d0 (scale-float -0.0d0 (- exponent 1075)))) folds to T 2016-03-06T10:28:34Z stassats: first CONVERT-NUMERIC-TYPE makes it -0d0 into -0.0d0 0.0d0, which then turns into 0.0d0 2016-03-06T10:30:47Z stassats: why does it intentionally screw itself up? 2016-03-06T10:42:13Z stassats: removed all the conversion and looking what it breaks 2016-03-06T10:56:39Z stassats: ok, nothing breaks 2016-03-06T10:57:09Z stassats: well, it claims to improve some optimizations, but what's the use in optimizations that provide wrong results? 2016-03-06T11:00:14Z stassats: too bad it doesn't give out any examples 2016-03-06T11:05:06Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-06T11:09:50Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-06T11:14:04Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-06T11:20:45Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-06T11:40:05Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-03-06T11:40:32Z foom joined #sbcl 2016-03-06T11:40:46Z dougk_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-06T11:43:38Z dougk_ 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benefit/downside to doing it myself? 2016-03-08T00:52:04Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-08T01:05:42Z flip214 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-08T01:05:59Z flip214 joined #sbcl 2016-03-08T01:08:41Z |3b|: raydeejay: i think it does, and i think it is supposed to produce pretty much same results (aside from some things like timestamps and paths) regardless of host compiler 2016-03-08T01:15:54Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-08T01:40:55Z raydeejay: yeah, I figure it's something like this, I just asked in case someone really really knows about it 2016-03-08T01:47:01Z Quadresce` joined #sbcl 2016-03-08T01:48:17Z Quadrescence quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-08T01:56:44Z Quadresce` quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-03-08T02:31:15Z Quadrescence joined #sbcl 2016-03-08T02:56:06Z myrkraverk quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-08T02:57:13Z myrkraverk joined #sbcl 2016-03-08T03:52:32Z hydan quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 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implementation is it possible to turn an interior pointer into a lisp object? 2016-03-08T17:45:17Z Guest36703: for a few types. 2016-03-08T17:45:20Z Guest36703 is now known as pkhuong 2016-03-08T17:48:28Z jasom: pkhuong: but not reliably, so if I want to do it I'll have to keep track of allocations some how? 2016-03-08T17:53:57Z jsnell_: you'd need to walk the heap from some synchronized point 2016-03-08T17:54:07Z jsnell_: in the current implementation from the start of the allocation region 2016-03-08T17:55:44Z jasom: that makes sense 2016-03-08T18:17:22Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-08T18:18:18Z irsol joined #sbcl 2016-03-08T19:05:13Z nzambe joined #sbcl 2016-03-08T19:07:51Z ASau joined #sbcl 2016-03-08T19:22:52Z DeadTrickster_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-08T19:26:11Z sjl__ joined #sbcl 2016-03-08T19:28:24Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-08T19:29:08Z hydan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-08T19:39:01Z eudoxia joined #sbcl 2016-03-08T19:45:25Z stassats: huh, (aref "z" r) still inserts an index type-check while (svref "z" r) doesn't 2016-03-08T19:45:55Z stassats: probably coming from a transform, that always annoyed me 2016-03-08T19:50:00Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-08T19:51:08Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-08T19:53:58Z stassats: and sometimes that's a good thing, sigh 2016-03-08T19:54:25Z stassats: maybe could be solved with a peep-hole pass 2016-03-08T19:55:28Z stassats: deciding if there's another cast or check-bound before the variable is read 2016-03-08T19:56:16Z stassats: (the fixnum (the integer x)) has two checks 2016-03-08T19:56:41Z akkad quit (Quit: Emacs must have died) 2016-03-08T20:34:48Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-03-08T20:53:13Z stassats: hm, when ir1-merge-casts is working there seems to be no more casts, they are converted 2016-03-08T21:01:03Z eudoxia joined #sbcl 2016-03-08T21:09:00Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2016-03-08T21:15:07Z prxq joined #sbcl 2016-03-08T21:23:06Z 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2016-03-09T13:24:28Z scymtym: i wonder how that happens 2016-03-09T13:25:35Z scymtym adds :prototype-form 'nil to the built-in-class definition for list anyway 2016-03-09T13:27:11Z barbone joined #sbcl 2016-03-09T13:27:26Z stassats: (class-of nil) => # 2016-03-09T13:27:40Z stassats: would be a bit strange for the prototype to have a different class 2016-03-09T13:30:38Z scymtym: the surprising thing (to me) is (sb-mop:class-prototype (find-class 'list)) 2016-03-09T13:31:03Z scymtym: oh, i see what you are saying 2016-03-09T13:31:30Z scymtym: well, i will try using a non-nil list if :prototype-form actually works 2016-03-09T13:31:40Z scymtym: i couldn't find any uses of it 2016-03-09T13:31:49Z stassats: it does work 2016-03-09T13:32:09Z scymtym: out of curiosity, do you know how? 2016-03-09T13:32:34Z stassats: M-. on SB-PCL::*BUILT-IN-CLASSES* 2016-03-09T13:33:57Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-03-09T13:35:19Z scymtym: thanks, i was trying to find it from *!BUILT-IN-CLASS* but that yielded only usages which ignored :prototype-form 2016-03-09T13:36:02Z stassats: mop c-p 2016-03-09T13:36:02Z specbot: class-prototype: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-prototype.html 2016-03-09T13:36:18Z scymtym: anyway, any objects to changing :prototype-form for list to (list 42)? 2016-03-09T13:36:31Z scymtym: s/objects/objections/ 2016-03-09T13:36:31Z stassats: that would have a class of CONS 2016-03-09T13:38:20Z scymtym: do we need ∀C: (eq C (class-of (class-prototype C)))? 2016-03-09T13:40:46Z stassats: that's what i would expect from a prototype 2016-03-09T13:40:48Z scymtym: (sb-mop:class-prototype (find-class 'real)) => 42 is the same problem 2016-03-09T13:41:06Z stassats: 42 is the default 2016-03-09T13:41:16Z stassats: for any class that has no direct instances 2016-03-09T13:42:57Z scymtym: in that case at least (typep (class-prototype C) (class-name C)) holds 2016-03-09T13:43:06Z scymtym: which is currently not true for list 2016-03-09T13:43:14Z stassats: or just ignore the problem 2016-03-09T13:43:24Z stassats: it's not true for VECTOR either 2016-03-09T13:43:39Z stassats: or string 2016-03-09T13:45:00Z scymtym: i stumbled across this while fixing (sequence:map ' …) 2016-03-09T13:45:25Z scymtym: it would nice if (sequence:map (class-prototype (find-class 'list)) …) worked 2016-03-09T13:45:44Z stassats: is that something important? 2016-03-09T13:46:11Z stassats: why does sequence:map use a prototype and not a type/class? 2016-03-09T13:46:50Z scymtym: for dispatch 2016-03-09T13:47:08Z scymtym: the result sequence is created via sequence:make-sequence-like 2016-03-09T13:47:19Z scymtym: which takes a sequence object, not a class 2016-03-09T13:49:14Z stassats: sequence:map accepts multiple input sequences, now does it dispatch on &rest sequences? 2016-03-09T13:49:40Z stassats: but (sequence:map (class-prototype (find-class 'cons))) works, doesn't it? 2016-03-09T13:50:47Z scymtym: yes, that should work 2016-03-09T13:51:53Z scymtym: or rather, that's what i'm actually fixing 2016-03-09T13:52:15Z scymtym: the thing is that SEQUENCE:MAP currently calls (make-sequence (class-of ) …) 2016-03-09T13:52:47Z scymtym: (i.e. a class, not a type specifier) 2016-03-09T13:53:00Z stassats: a class is a type specifier, is it not? 2016-03-09T13:53:21Z scymtym: i was trying to determine that but didn't find it in the spec 2016-03-09T13:54:06Z scymtym: but even if that is the case, MAKE-SEQUENCE would eventually call (sequence:make-sequence-like ) 2016-03-09T13:54:18Z stassats: clhs 4.2.3 2016-03-09T13:54:19Z specbot: Type Specifiers: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/04_bc.htm 2016-03-09T13:54:36Z scymtym: right 2016-03-09T13:56:35Z scymtym: ok, so one problem is that MAKE-SEQUENCE does not accept extended sequence classes 2016-03-09T13:58:52Z scymtym: it class FIND-CLASS on the type specifier even if it already is a class 2016-03-09T13:59:02Z scymtym: s/class/calls/ 2016-03-09T14:13:07Z scymtym: the changes i'm considering are http://paste.lisp.org/display/309423 with 3/3 being the least important 2016-03-09T14:21:43Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-09T14:24:40Z Xof: 3/3 is tricky 2016-03-09T14:25:06Z Xof: list is an abstract class; cons and null are disjoint and complete subsets 2016-03-09T14:25:26Z stassats: and you're leaving the vector and string cases, if you're about sequence:map 2016-03-09T14:25:26Z Xof: that means there's no object where (class-of ) will return # 2016-03-09T14:26:21Z stassats: i would propose, instead of 42, make a struct # 2016-03-09T14:26:33Z scymtym: stassats: i'm not going to commit this as pasted. mainly giving a summary of the issues 2016-03-09T14:26:35Z stassats: or an error? 2016-03-09T14:26:43Z scymtym: is that permissible? 2016-03-09T14:26:55Z scymtym: is was thinking about signaling an error as well 2016-03-09T14:26:59Z Xof: this might be awkward when you do things like (make-sequence-like (cons nil nil) 0) -- because strictly speaking the sequence you get (NULL) is not the same class as the argument (CONS) 2016-03-09T14:28:03Z Xof: It would be traditional style for SBCL to throw an error; I can't remember why we don't but it's probably because some code broke when we did 2016-03-09T14:33:04Z scymtym: MAKE-SEQUENCE already does that 2016-03-09T14:33:55Z Xof: right, but you can pass LIST to MAKE-SEQUENCE 2016-03-09T14:34:10Z Xof: but you can't pass a list object to make-sequence-like, because there are none 2016-03-09T14:34:19Z Xof: (only cons objects and null objects) 2016-03-09T14:39:28Z scymtym: shouldn't MAKE-SEQUENCE-LIKE behave in analogous way to MAKE-SEQUENCE for the things that you can pass to it? i.e. (make-sequence-like (cons nil nil) 0) => error, (make-sequence-like nil 5) => error 2016-03-09T14:40:49Z stassats: (make-sequence 'null 5) does err 2016-03-09T14:42:10Z scymtym: right, and i'm wondering whether (make-sequence-like nil 5) should as well 2016-03-09T14:44:00Z Xof: at the moment, there's no way to say to make-sequence-like "please give me a list of this size", where you don't know the size until runtime 2016-03-09T14:44:45Z Xof: or there is, but it's pretty ugly; something like (if (= size 0) nil (make-sequence-like size)) 2016-03-09T14:48:02Z karswell` is now known as karswell 2016-03-09T14:49:10Z scymtym: special prototype objects could solve that but (typep (class-prototype C) (class-name C)) would not be realistically achievable, i think 2016-03-09T14:53:06Z Xof: right 2016-03-09T15:01:45Z nzambe joined #sbcl 2016-03-09T15:08:12Z scymtym has to run 2016-03-09T15:08:16Z scymtym: thanks for the discussion 2016-03-09T15:33:57Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-09T15:42:29Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-09T15:46:18Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-09T15:46:18Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2016-03-09T15:46:18Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-09T15:50:39Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-09T16:07:27Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 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2016-03-10T09:56:53Z scymtym_: MAP, MERGE, CONCATENATE need some more work 2016-03-10T10:07:55Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-03-10T10:12:34Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-10T10:24:10Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T10:52:42Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-10T10:53:54Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-10T10:54:20Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T10:54:33Z stassats` joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T10:55:07Z DGASAU joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T10:58:47Z stassats` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-03-10T11:01:59Z stassats` joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T11:04:33Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-10T11:06:21Z stassats` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-10T11:06:21Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T11:07:30Z stassats` joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T11:11:46Z stassats` quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-10T11:12:28Z stassats` joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T11:13:24Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 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who is the sbcl-bugs master? nikodemus? 2016-03-10T14:07:05Z stassats`: it seems some stuff got stuck there 2016-03-10T14:31:01Z eudoxia joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T14:33:36Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-10T15:15:14Z DGASAU joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T15:27:50Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-03-10T15:28:14Z DGASAU joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T15:43:26Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-10T15:45:18Z DeadTrickster_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T16:11:32Z gingerale joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T16:17:04Z DeadTrickster joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T16:54:22Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-03-10T17:02:40Z slyrus joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T17:25:51Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-10T17:39:34Z eudoxia joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T18:21:53Z fitzsim` is now known as fitzsim 2016-03-10T18:24:20Z eudoxia_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T18:24:26Z eudoxia_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-10T18:24:35Z eudoxia_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-10T18:24:43Z 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error with bordeaux-threads on SBCL, (#) 2016-03-12T00:11:32Z smetl: is not of type 2016-03-12T00:11:35Z smetl: sb-thread:thread. 2016-03-12T00:15:11Z smetl left #sbcl 2016-03-12T00:22:19Z stassats: why did you redefine sb-thread:thread? and left without waiting for an answer? 2016-03-12T00:30:03Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-12T01:02:24Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-12T01:58:21Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-12T02:18:59Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-03-12T03:57:18Z rszeno joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T06:01:05Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2016-03-12T06:33:18Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-12T06:33:24Z karswell` joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T06:52:33Z gingerale joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T06:54:04Z karswell` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-03-12T06:54:24Z karswell` joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T07:15:21Z angavrilov joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T07:34:33Z tcr joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T07:42:22Z Shinmera 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I thought mine, or perhaps an hour east, but either you're awake and in here most of the time, or you slept just inbetween ;) 2016-03-12T09:54:29Z stassats: or am i? 2016-03-12T10:12:48Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-12T10:29:21Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T10:33:34Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-12T10:36:48Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T10:42:49Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-12T10:45:53Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T10:51:13Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-12T10:52:32Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:00:10Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-03-12T11:01:33Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:07:03Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-12T11:08:53Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:10:55Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-03-12T11:13:03Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-12T11:13:50Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:15:50Z tcr joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:17:08Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:18:25Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-12T11:18:53Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:19:16Z edgar-rft joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:21:17Z flavioc joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:23:36Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-03-12T11:27:44Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-12T11:27:51Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:28:47Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:34:09Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-12T11:35:20Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:35:39Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-12T11:39:42Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-12T11:41:23Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:46:02Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-12T11:46:20Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:47:01Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:50:33Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-12T11:51:54Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T11:56:34Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-03-12T11:56:52Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T12:01:18Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-12T12:02:53Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T12:07:34Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-03-12T12:09:55Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T12:14:22Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-12T12:14:54Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T12:56:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-12T13:09:01Z scymtym joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T13:35:17Z rszeno joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T13:37:30Z stassats: interesting, The value NIL is not of type (OR (AND SYMBOL (NOT NULL)) RESTART). 2016-03-12T13:38:29Z stassats: ok, that happens when C-c hits in REINIT 2016-03-12T13:53:45Z edgar-rft quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-12T13:55:02Z tcr quit 2016-03-12T13:56:22Z edgar-rft joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T13:56:53Z edgar-rft quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-12T14:02:53Z edgar-rft joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T14:15:03Z myrkraverk quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-12T14:15:28Z myrkraverk joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T14:22:01Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2016-03-12T14:26:42Z Baggers joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T14:33:38Z Baggers: Hi all. I was playing with this simple cffi code 2016-03-12T14:33:39Z Baggers: (defun test () 2016-03-12T14:33:39Z Baggers: (declare (optimize (speed 3) (safety 0) (debug 1))) 2016-03-12T14:33:39Z Baggers: (the cffi-sys:foreign-pointer 2016-03-12T14:33:39Z Baggers: (inc-pointer (cffi:null-pointer) 10))) 2016-03-12T14:33:39Z Baggers: And I get this warning: doing SAP to pointer coercion (cost 20) to "" 2016-03-12T14:33:39Z Baggers: I'm a little confused as the type cffi-sys:foreign-pointer is defined to be an sbcl system-area-pointer. Where is the conversion coming from? 2016-03-12T14:33:52Z stassats: it's not a warning 2016-03-12T14:34:04Z Baggers: sorry a note 2016-03-12T14:34:28Z stassats: you are returning a pointer 2016-03-12T14:34:46Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-03-12T14:36:22Z Baggers: stassats: ok? I assumed as much but was unsure why. If cffi pointers are defined as SAPs so why is the SAP converted to some other kind of pointer? 2016-03-12T14:37:14Z stassats: to return a pointer it needs a tag, there's not enough space for a tag 2016-03-12T14:37:23Z stassats: so it has to use two words, which means allocating memory 2016-03-12T14:37:34Z Baggers: ah! 2016-03-12T14:37:58Z stassats: which is slow 2016-03-12T14:38:06Z stassats: and wasteful 2016-03-12T14:42:09Z Baggers: indeed, thankyou that is much clearer now. Do you have any advice passing/returning pointers in a more optimal way. I'm happy to have sbcl specific version of these functions if that can help 2016-03-12T14:42:45Z stassats: if that actually hurts hour performance, inlining is an easy way 2016-03-12T14:47:17Z foom joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T14:49:34Z Baggers: stassats: thanks again, this gives me a great place to start from. 2016-03-12T14:49:39Z Baggers: ciao 2016-03-12T14:49:44Z Baggers left #sbcl 2016-03-12T14:54:00Z angavrilov quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-12T14:56:16Z angavrilov joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T15:08:13Z edgar-rft joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T15:29:09Z jackc- joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T15:29:26Z jackc-_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-03-12T15:51:06Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2016-03-12T16:10:02Z minion quit (Disconnected by services) 2016-03-12T16:10:06Z minion joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T16:12:18Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-12T16:12:18Z jdz joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T16:12:25Z leo_song quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-12T16:16:57Z leo_song joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T17:01:33Z karswell` is now known as karswell 2016-03-12T17:08:11Z barbone quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-12T17:08:16Z Posterdati quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-03-12T17:21:33Z Posterdati joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T17:21:34Z barbone joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T17:27:31Z stassats: Shinmera: i think i see what you might be experiencing 2016-03-12T17:27:48Z stassats: and why it affects even non-concurrent redifinitions 2016-03-12T17:28:24Z Shinmera: Oh? 2016-03-12T17:28:26Z stassats: if both the class and the object have an old layout, the object is fixed up, then the class 2016-03-12T17:28:44Z stassats: but updating the class causes the objects to become "invalid" again 2016-03-12T17:28:58Z stassats: an obvious way would be to swap them around 2016-03-12T17:29:11Z stassats: but it's never the obvious way, is it? 2016-03-12T17:30:02Z yvm quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-03-12T17:30:44Z stassats: but swapping around wouldn't help with concurrent code 2016-03-12T17:31:50Z Shinmera: And a lock would waste a lot of performance, I'm guessing? 2016-03-12T17:32:02Z stassats: deadlocks, rather 2016-03-12T17:32:05Z Shinmera: Ah, right. 2016-03-12T17:32:35Z stassats: well, actually, it already grabs the world lock when it has to update 2016-03-12T17:32:50Z stassats: but it updates in two stages, the layout and the object itself 2016-03-12T17:33:03Z stassats: both of those grab the lock, what if the lock is around them? 2016-03-12T17:33:09Z angavrilov_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T17:33:13Z Shinmera: Is it a recursive lock? 2016-03-12T17:33:20Z stassats: yeah 2016-03-12T17:33:41Z Shinmera: That sounds like it might be worth a shot then 2016-03-12T17:33:50Z stassats: but i don't have a test case 2016-03-12T17:33:59Z stassats: just observations 2016-03-12T17:34:17Z Shinmera: Yeah. My case is pretty reliable, but so intertwined that it doesn't really prove anything. 2016-03-12T17:36:05Z angavrilov quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-03-12T17:37:08Z stassats: if this is fixed, and only concurrent redefinition is left, then i would be inclined to remove the AVER 2016-03-12T17:37:27Z stassats: since it would be a fair game for TYPEP to return a wrong result 2016-03-12T17:38:06Z stassats: it would cause as much havoc as if the redifinition happened just after TYPEP returned and the code it protected is executed 2016-03-12T17:40:29Z stassats: actually, it looks like it's asked to replace a layout with a redefined layout, except that this layout is invalid too 2016-03-12T18:00:33Z stassats: ok, that part is fixed with another swap 2016-03-12T18:02:43Z akkad quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-12T18:03:03Z Intensity quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-12T18:03:11Z stassats: that should cut down on the cases where it needs two iterations for classoid-typep 2016-03-12T18:04:09Z stassats: but it breaks something else, damn it 2016-03-12T18:13:52Z Intensity joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T18:14:03Z akkad joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T18:33:25Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-03-12T18:33:40Z karswell joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T18:35:43Z stassats: i think i see how that may cause concurrent access to fail, since it asks to swap for a new layout, but it's invalid, which isn't normally a problem and is fixed in two iterations 2016-03-12T18:36:13Z stassats: but another thread may swap it back for the invalid layout after the first iteration was completed in the first thread 2016-03-12T18:45:59Z ASau` joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T18:49:40Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-03-12T18:49:40Z ASau` is now known as ASau 2016-03-12T19:00:39Z stassats: turns out, even if the layout is checked for validity it still may end up invalid 2016-03-12T19:08:29Z igajsin1 joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T19:40:40Z stassats: looks like multiple invalidations are handled through *previous-nwrappers*, but that excludes the T case, only :flush and :obsolete 2016-03-12T19:51:43Z stassats: i think the T case needs to go 2016-03-12T20:18:37Z stassats: yeah, everything works fine when all the classes are finalized, but unfinalized classes use T for marking invalidity, and that breaks stuff 2016-03-12T20:59:41Z angavrilov_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-12T21:08:57Z yvm joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T21:47:18Z christoph_debian quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-12T21:48:12Z christoph_debian joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T22:44:12Z stassats: pcl has too many moving parts 2016-03-12T22:49:20Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-03-12T22:50:00Z DeadTrickster_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-12T23:01:37Z stassats: give up, can't hold it in my head, need a new strategy 2016-03-12T23:01:51Z Shinmera: Sorry to give you such headaches! 2016-03-12T23:02:09Z stassats: well, this bug has been on my radar for some time 2016-03-12T23:32:09Z 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a combination of CREATION-RESULT-TYPE-SPECIFIER-NTH-ARG and TYPEP optimizers 2016-03-13T16:43:21Z stassats: what's the result of (sb-impl::%fun-type (compile nil '(lambda () (the my-extended-seq (make-sequence (find-class 'my-extended-seq) 1))))) ? 2016-03-13T16:43:32Z stassats: (sb-impl::%fun-type (compile nil '(lambda () (make-sequence (find-class 'my-extended-seq) 1)))) rather 2016-03-13T16:46:02Z scymtym_: (sb-impl::%fun-type (compile nil '(lambda () (make-sequence (find-class 'my-extended-seq) 1)))) 2016-03-13T16:46:02Z scymtym_: => 2016-03-13T16:46:02Z scymtym_: (FUNCTION NIL (VALUES (OR (SIMPLE-ARRAY * (*)) CONS NULL SB-KERNEL:EXTENDED-SEQUENCE) &OPTIONAL)) 2016-03-13T16:46:04Z scymtym_: sorry 2016-03-13T16:46:51Z stassats: that seems to be ok 2016-03-13T16:47:14Z stassats: is (subtypep 'my-extended-seq '(or (simple-array * (*)) cons null sb-kernel:extended-sequence)) true? 2016-03-13T16:47:26Z scymtym_: without FIND-CLASS, it is different, though 2016-03-13T16:47:50Z scymtym_: without FIND-CLASS: (FUNCTION NIL (VALUES MY-EXTENDED-SEQ &OPTIONAL)) 2016-03-13T16:48:18Z scymtym_: your expression is T, T 2016-03-13T16:57:20Z scymtym_: i think has something to do with optimizing (typep 'my-extended-sequence) 2016-03-13T16:58:04Z scymtym_: (funcall (compile nil '(lambda (x) (the my-extended-seq (sb-ext:truly-the sequence x)))) (make-instance 'my-extended-seq)) also signals a TYPE-error 2016-03-13T16:58:36Z scymtym_: removing the TRULY-THE lets the error vanish 2016-03-13T17:00:16Z scymtym_: iiuc, the TYPEP test is transformed to %INSTANCE-TYPEP which is transformed to something containing (%instancep object) which is false at runtime when object is known to be of type SEQUENCE 2016-03-13T17:01:59Z DeadTrickster_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-13T17:09:41Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-13T17:21:12Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-13T17:43:45Z stassats: optimized some sequence functions with with-array-data and %%array-data-reffers%% 2016-03-13T17:44:08Z stassats: could do more, but there's too much convoluted macro and transform stuff 2016-03-13T17:44:46Z stassats: but if all sequence functions handle displaced arrays well then using them won't be as horrible 2016-03-13T17:46:02Z stassats: reversing a large dispalced arrays went from 1.293 seconds to 0.201 2016-03-13T17:55:32Z scymtym_ has to vanish for a bit 2016-03-13T18:00:14Z aeth: Is it intentional that (array-element-type (make-array 5 :element-type foo) is T for 'boolean, 'integer, '(or fixnum null), etc? 2016-03-13T18:00:25Z stassats: yes 2016-03-13T18:00:40Z aeth: Integer would probably be impossible, but why boolean? 2016-03-13T18:01:17Z stassats: what about boolean? 2016-03-13T18:01:22Z aeth: The type boolean only refers to t and nil afaik, since e.g. (typep 1 'boolean) is nil even though 1 is true 2016-03-13T18:01:53Z aeth: So couldn't a boolean array be as optimized as a bit one? 2016-03-13T18:02:00Z stassats: use bit arrays 2016-03-13T18:02:07Z aeth: I know now. 2016-03-13T18:03:10Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-13T18:03:58Z Bike: aeth: upgraded-array-element-type 2016-03-13T18:04:28Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-13T18:06:13Z aeth: (upgraded-array-element-type 'long-float) ; DOUBLE-FLOAT 2016-03-13T18:06:26Z stassats: there are no long floats 2016-03-13T18:06:49Z aeth: Wrong. One of the SBCL target platforms has it (in the compiler, too). SPARC? 2016-03-13T18:07:00Z Bike: but not yours 2016-03-13T18:07:01Z aeth: I am not on a SPARC though 2016-03-13T18:07:09Z Bike: on yours, long float is double float 2016-03-13T18:07:41Z stassats: there is no long floats 2016-03-13T18:08:12Z aeth: sbcl/src/compiler/sparc/float.lisp 2016-03-13T18:08:44Z aeth: There are no long floats on the platform I am using. There are long floats, though. 2016-03-13T18:08:48Z stassats: how many times should i repeat myself? 2016-03-13T18:09:20Z aeth: I know I do not have long floats. 2016-03-13T18:09:34Z stassats: sbcl does not support long floats, period 2016-03-13T18:18:40Z aeth: stassats: What does #!+long-float mean in sbcl/src/compiler/sparc/float.lisp then? Also, what does lines 4-5 of the comment at the top of sbcl/src/code/float.lisp mean? Was there long-float support that was added and then dropped? 2016-03-13T18:18:58Z stassats: sbcl never supported long floats 2016-03-13T18:19:01Z stassats: cmucl did 2016-03-13T18:19:31Z aeth: So SBCL has unsupported long-float code in it from CMUCL from before the fork, but it's not supported? 2016-03-13T18:20:04Z aeth: And probably won't work on a platform with long-float? 2016-03-13T18:20:40Z stassats: no support == does not work 2016-03-13T18:23:11Z aeth: Would SBCL accept patches to get it working again in the future if a platform with long-float is available in the future? Is the current long-float code in SBCL useless? 2016-03-13T18:23:26Z aeth: grep -r "long-float" . | wc -l # 863 2016-03-13T18:23:43Z aeth: Some of that is probably getting 'long-float to actually be 'double-float, but a lot of that is the CMUCL long-float code 2016-03-13T18:25:40Z stassats: only if it's optional 2016-03-13T18:28:27Z aeth: I think that's how it was implemented originally. 2016-03-13T18:32:30Z aeth: Quadruple-precision floating-point (which afaik was the 'long-float on SPARC) is an optional extension to RISC-V. It does not look like it is on all RISC-V chips, and it does not look like it is on the ones that will probably be shipping in 2017. At least for the RISC-V port that I will attempt, it will *have* to be optional. 2016-03-13T18:33:51Z aeth: In fact, RISC-V is going to be rather annoying. Quite a lot of things are optional. I think *backend-subfeatures* can be used for this. I might be wrong. 2016-03-13T18:36:46Z rtmpdavid quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-13T18:36:54Z aeth: stassats: I am following your advice to not port using QEMU, and I am going to instead just take my time learning how certain SBCL internals work until I can buy some actual RISC-V hardware. 2016-03-13T18:37:15Z aeth: Maybe if I get impatient I will buy an FPGA. 2016-03-13T18:40:05Z aeth: stassats: Is *backend-subfeatures* the correct way to handle something like 'long-float, which may or may not be on chips of the target architecture? Or is there a different way that I have not yet found? 2016-03-13T18:40:25Z stassats: #!+long-float is the way 2016-03-13T18:40:33Z aeth: ah, okay 2016-03-13T18:40:40Z aeth: What's confusing is that the SPARC code uses both 2016-03-13T18:40:53Z aeth: I think that's because v8 and v9 both have long-float, but v9 has more instructions 2016-03-13T18:41:46Z aeth: At least, that's now my best guess 2016-03-13T18:48:21Z scymtym_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-13T18:49:08Z aeth: stassats: Is double-float mandatory in SBCL since there's no #!+double-float as well? 2016-03-13T18:49:19Z stassats: it is 2016-03-13T18:49:24Z stassats: would be pretty silly not to have it 2016-03-13T18:50:22Z aeth: Yes, it would, but double (and single!) float is also optional in RISC-V. Most features are actually extensions. I guess that means that a port to RISC-V cannot run on all possible RISC-V chips. 2016-03-13T18:51:17Z aeth: I guess very-modular is in style now, e.g. r7rs's library system or even SICL. 2016-03-13T19:00:02Z DeadTrickster_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-13T19:10:29Z karswell joined #sbcl 2016-03-13T19:11:55Z prxq joined #sbcl 2016-03-13T20:11:24Z scymtym_: i may be getting closer: (funcall (compile nil '(lambda (x) (sb-kernel::%instancep (the sequence x)))) (make-instance 'my-extended-seq)) => nil, but t without "the sequence" 2016-03-13T20:16:56Z stassats: well, (subtypep 'sequence 'instance) => NIL 2016-03-13T20:17:31Z scymtym_: but the intersection is not empty? 2016-03-13T20:19:03Z stassats: did i tell that i hate all the !named macros? i did, but i'm saying it again 2016-03-13T20:19:07Z stassats: because i really hate them 2016-03-13T20:19:27Z scymtym_: (funcall (compile nil '(lambda (x) (locally (declare (notinline typep)) (typep (the sequence x) 'sb-kernel::instance)))) (make-instance 'my-extended-seq)) => T 2016-03-13T20:19:36Z scymtym_: without NOTLINE => NIL 2016-03-13T20:21:06Z stassats: it's all because it's not recognized as a subtype 2016-03-13T20:22:12Z scymtym_: but it does not have to be a subtype, right? the intersection being non-empty is enough to prevent folding of the test to nil 2016-03-13T20:22:29Z stassats: well, both are nil 2016-03-13T20:23:16Z scymtym_: oh, i thought you omitted the second return value of subtypep because it was nil 2016-03-13T20:23:17Z stassats: (list (subtypep 'extended-sequence 'instance) (type-intersection (specifier-type 'extended-sequence) (specifier-type 'instance))) 2016-03-13T20:23:19Z scymtym_: but it is t 2016-03-13T20:23:22Z stassats: => (NIL #) 2016-03-13T20:23:56Z scymtym_: yes 2016-03-13T20:26:27Z stassats: (sb-kernel:type-intersection (specifier-type 'function) (specifier-type 'funcallable-instance)) => # 2016-03-13T20:26:54Z scymtym_: the problem should be in COMPLEX-{SUBTYPEP,INTERSECTION}2 for NAMED, right? 2016-03-13T20:27:36Z stassats: is that true though? funcallable-instance 2016-03-13T20:28:06Z stassats: ok, i guess it is 2016-03-13T20:28:18Z scymtym_: i think that one is fine 2016-03-13T20:28:42Z stassats: so, they should both behave similarly then 2016-03-13T20:29:23Z stassats: intersecting into extended-sequence 2016-03-13T20:29:41Z scymtym_: yeah, i think a clause for the pair extended-sequence, instance is missing 2016-03-13T20:30:41Z stassats: i guess now is a good time to found out what 2 in :complex-union2 means, second argument? 2016-03-13T20:31:11Z stassats: or two arguments? 2016-03-13T20:32:59Z stassats: looks like the latter, but there is no complex-union 2016-03-13T20:33:01Z stassats: confusing 2016-03-13T20:35:42Z scymtym_: i thought it means that the "specializer" refers to the second type 2016-03-13T20:36:15Z stassats: see? it is confusing 2016-03-13T20:36:35Z scymtym_: i'm not arguing that it isn't :) 2016-03-13T20:36:55Z stassats: but there is type-union and type-union2 2016-03-13T20:38:13Z stassats: so, when to use which? 2016-03-13T20:38:36Z scymtym_: struct type-class in type-class.lisp has comments 2016-03-13T20:38:59Z stassats: type-intersection2 is only used once in the compiler 2016-03-13T20:40:33Z stassats: but types-equal-or-intersect uses it 2016-03-13T20:40:37Z stassats: ok, that was a digression 2016-03-13T20:41:11Z stassats: but still, the compiler has a lot of type-intersection calls, is that wrong? 2016-03-13T20:48:09Z stassats: scymtym_: do you have a solution? 2016-03-13T20:48:19Z stassats: or a way for a silting 2016-03-13T20:48:22Z stassats: solution 2016-03-13T20:48:40Z scymtym_: still experimenting with the type methods 2016-03-13T20:48:53Z stassats: i feel like messing with those type methods is bound to break something else 2016-03-13T20:49:10Z scymtym_: step 1: delegating to a function so redefinition works without rebuilding 2016-03-13T20:49:47Z stassats: i just brought back way !define-type-method (which i hate) back to life 2016-03-13T20:49:54Z scymtym_: will definitely need an Xof review, even if it apparently works 2016-03-13T20:51:21Z stassats: and not forgetting to (sb-int:drop-all-hash-caches) before each test 2016-03-13T20:53:09Z stassats: i need to resurrect my sb-devel patch 2016-03-13T21:04:13Z stassats stops investigating intersections, too convoluted 2016-03-13T21:10:02Z Xof: uhoh 2016-03-13T21:12:02Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-13T21:18:13Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-13T21:43:29Z scymtym_: i think (sb-c::type-intersection (sb-c::specifier-type '(or sb-kernel::instance sb-kernel::funcallable-instance)) (sb-c::specifier-type 'sb-kernel::extended-sequence)) could simplify to just extended-sequence. does it have to? 2016-03-13T21:44:28Z stassats: as opposed to what? 2016-03-13T21:44:46Z scymtym_: (or (and e-s i) (and e-s f-i)) 2016-03-13T21:45:49Z stassats: one of those is nil, so it'd be nicer not to have it 2016-03-13T21:46:56Z scymtym_: (adding a clause in in the simple-subtypep method for named seems to solve the subtypep issue and the miscompilation) 2016-03-13T22:20:10Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-03-13T22:38:54Z scymtym_: it is not pretty, but i seem to have the SUBTYPEP case, the intersection simplifications (both directions) and the original problem solved. running tests. 2016-03-13T22:50:50Z scymtym_: i'm done for today. this is what i have so far: http://paste.lisp.org/display/310010 2016-03-13T22:51:28Z stassats: was it mean to be subtypeP? 2016-03-13T22:51:34Z stassats: meant 2016-03-13T22:51:51Z scymtym_: the news entry? 2016-03-13T22:52:06Z stassats: the first commit message 2016-03-13T22:52:17Z scymtym_: yeah 2016-03-13T22:52:40Z stassats: why is it NIL NIL, though? 2016-03-13T22:53:04Z scymtym_: as opposed to just NIL? 2016-03-13T22:53:17Z stassats: to NIL, T 2016-03-13T22:54:11Z scymtym_: right, i was confusing it with TYPEP 2016-03-13T22:57:04Z scymtym_: ok, that would restore the previous behavior (except intersection), so the "fix" is all wrong 2016-03-13T22:57:17Z scymtym_: i will retry tomorrow 2016-03-13T22:57:34Z stassats: (subtypep 'standard-object 'sb-kernel:instance) => NIL, NIL 2016-03-13T22:58:24Z stassats: (typep (make-instance 'standard-object) 'sb-kernel:instance) => T 2016-03-13T22:58:40Z stassats: well, the second value of NIL means "it's not sure" 2016-03-13T22:59:02Z stassats: too convoluted... 2016-03-13T22:59:54Z stassats: scymtym_: so, it should either be T, T or NIL, NIL 2016-03-13T22:59:55Z stassats: i think 2016-03-13T23:04:49Z stassats: but what is "instance" really? 2016-03-13T23:04:58Z stassats: a structure instance 2016-03-13T23:06:32Z stassats: scymtym_: maybe if you can also see about (subtypep 'standard-object 'sb-kernel:instance) 2016-03-13T23:08:17Z stassats: for some reason it returns NIL NIL for most of the classoids 2016-03-13T23:09:50Z stassats: if INSTANCE is used to implement objects, are objects instances themselves? 2016-03-13T23:14:53Z scymtym_: stassats: sorry, child woke up. i may be back later 2016-03-13T23:15:37Z stassats: (subtypep 'sb-mop:funcallable-standard-object 'sb-kernel:funcallable-instance) => T,T 2016-03-13T23:18:11Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2016-03-13T23:22:15Z stassats: though extended-sequence is still complicating things, since it's not a class 2016-03-13T23:24:26Z stassats: really complicating things 2016-03-13T23:24:43Z stassats: so, sequence is both a class and a type union for (# # # #) 2016-03-13T23:29:20Z stassats: ok, now for a curve-ball 2016-03-13T23:29:25Z stassats: (defclass seq (sequence sb-mop:funcallable-standard-object) () (:metaclass sb-mop:funcallable-standard-class)) 2016-03-13T23:30:42Z stassats: scymtym_: i think the above is important 2016-03-13T23:30:53Z stassats: and i'm done for today as well 2016-03-13T23:38:03Z stassats: but i guess NIL NIL is right in that case 2016-03-13T23:43:31Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-03-13T23:43:43Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-13T23:44:12Z ASau joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T00:01:03Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-14T00:07:13Z mateuszb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-14T00:07:46Z mateuszb joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T00:49:04Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-03-14T01:12:45Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-14T01:38:05Z yvm quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-03-14T01:51:36Z yvm joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T01:58:30Z yvm quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-14T02:09:43Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T02:14:59Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-14T03:11:45Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T03:16:19Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-14T04:12:35Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T04:17:19Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-03-14T05:13:14Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T05:17:52Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-03-14T06:08:33Z salv0 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-14T06:14:03Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T06:18:39Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-14T06:37:45Z DeadTrickster_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T06:45:30Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-14T06:50:14Z igajsin1 joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T06:57:20Z angavrilov joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T07:09:30Z DeadTrickster_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T07:14:45Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T07:15:28Z mateuszb quit (*.net *.split) 2016-03-14T07:15:29Z scymtym_ quit (*.net *.split) 2016-03-14T07:15:33Z jsnell_ quit (*.net *.split) 2016-03-14T07:15:33Z mood quit (*.net *.split) 2016-03-14T07:16:02Z mateuszb joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T07:16:10Z scymtym_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T07:16:10Z jsnell_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T07:16:10Z mood joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T07:19:40Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-03-14T07:22:31Z Shinmera joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T07:48:13Z rtmpdavid joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T08:11:41Z salva joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T08:12:00Z igajsin1 left #sbcl 2016-03-14T08:15:31Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T08:20:02Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-14T08:47:19Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T08:55:45Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-14T09:23:22Z salva quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-03-14T09:30:36Z salva joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T09:35:34Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-14T09:37:57Z tcr joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T09:42:27Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T09:44:30Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T09:44:30Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2016-03-14T09:44:30Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T09:48:29Z Bike quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-14T09:48:48Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T09:54:12Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-14T09:55:05Z Baggers joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T09:55:24Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T09:57:14Z Baggers: I am considering making an sbcl extension. Are there any rules/best-practices I can read or is it best just to read the source for the existing extensions? 2016-03-14T09:57:34Z stassats: what kind of an sbcl extension? 2016-03-14T09:59:39Z Xof: one of those contribs? 2016-03-14T09:59:56Z Baggers: stassats: Im interested user defined declaration identifiers. While its just me playing with it I can hack on sbcl, but I'm curious about the process if I was to make this available to more people 2016-03-14T10:00:31Z Baggers: sorry if 'extension' is the wrong term, I was taking that from the sbcl manual 2016-03-14T10:00:51Z Baggers: ah yes, contrib is almost certainly what I meant 2016-03-14T10:01:51Z stassats: user defined declarations? that would be just attaching some meta information? 2016-03-14T10:01:58Z stassats: can't say i see the value of it 2016-03-14T10:01:58Z Baggers: stassats: yes 2016-03-14T10:02:02Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-03-14T10:02:14Z stassats: can be done without modifying sbcl and be portable 2016-03-14T10:03:22Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T10:04:03Z jackdaniel: #'1+ ↑ 2016-03-14T10:04:56Z Baggers: stassats: in that case I dont need to be bothering you folks 2016-03-14T10:06:18Z Shinmera: stassats: Adding custom declarations was quite useful in Qtools to add things like declaring that a slot is connected to a widget's signal. 2016-03-14T10:06:28Z Baggers: could I trouble you for any link or googlable term so I can look into doing this in a portable way. Im mainly interesting in looking at the declarations in the environments at macro time. This may be misguided but Im rather curious 2016-03-14T10:06:42Z Shinmera: But there I just parse them away during macro processing 2016-03-14T10:10:42Z stassats: Baggers: you can use MACROLET 2016-03-14T10:10:43Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-14T10:10:45Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T10:12:53Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T10:16:29Z jackdaniel: Baggers: package "iterate" has custom declarations 2016-03-14T10:16:36Z jackdaniel: you may check how it scraps them 2016-03-14T10:17:46Z Baggers: Thankyou stassats, jackdaniel & Shinmera, this gives me plenty to work with. Thanks for your time 2016-03-14T10:17:51Z Baggers left #sbcl 2016-03-14T10:18:34Z stassats: and left 2016-03-14T10:18:57Z stassats: just as i readied a macrolet based "declrations" 2016-03-14T10:19:14Z Shinmera: He's still in #lisp, so a memo would reach him. 2016-03-14T10:22:46Z stassats: nah, a memo is not enough and i don't want to join #lisp 2016-03-14T10:23:47Z jackdaniel: maybe /msg baggers xyz 2016-03-14T10:24:18Z stassats: well, i'm not going to chase someone just to answer their question 2016-03-14T10:40:39Z stassats: but that turned out to be an interesting exercise, so, http://paste.lisp.org/display/310079 2016-03-14T10:43:15Z stassats: Shinmera: could something like that be used for your signals? 2016-03-14T10:44:39Z stassats: though this is for macros inside the declrations, not for outside 2016-03-14T10:46:16Z stassats: not sure what this can actually be useful for.. 2016-03-14T11:25:33Z Shinmera: stassats: Not in my case since I need the declaration to expand to code outside of the surrounding defmethod. 2016-03-14T11:26:07Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-03-14T11:51:14Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T11:58:47Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-14T11:59:16Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T12:07:23Z Baggers joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T12:07:46Z Baggers: stassats: sorry I just noticed in the logs I ran off just as you were helping 2016-03-14T12:09:01Z Baggers: thanks for the paste 2016-03-14T12:22:17Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-03-14T12:23:28Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T12:24:12Z Baggers: it is actually quite fascinating, I certainly wouldn't have come up with this any time soon. Thanks again for the help 2016-03-14T12:26:06Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-14T12:30:38Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-14T12:42:45Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T13:07:00Z eudoxia joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T13:22:27Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-14T13:23:42Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T13:28:24Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-14T13:29:15Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T13:33:08Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-14T13:37:34Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-14T13:41:06Z scymtym_: i started over by writing down what i have observed so far: https://techfak.uni-bielefeld.de/~jmoringe/extended-sequence.html 2016-03-14T13:41:24Z scymtym_: can anybody explain why HIERARCHICAL-INTERSECTION2 is defined that way? 2016-03-14T13:41:34Z stassats: scymtym_: so, i think the observable results of your paste are correct 2016-03-14T13:41:42Z stassats: i haven't checked the changes to achieve them 2016-03-14T13:42:12Z scymtym_: stassats: i think it the paste version works most accidentally 2016-03-14T13:42:16Z scymtym_: *mostly 2016-03-14T13:42:39Z stassats: but NIL NIL is the right answer, due to multiple inheritance subtypep can't be always decided 2016-03-14T13:43:16Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T13:43:22Z scymtym_: ok, this was/is my fundamental confusion 2016-03-14T13:44:20Z stassats: well, truly, NIL T is the right answer, but the compiler misuses subtypep 2016-03-14T13:44:31Z scymtym_: (subtypep type1 type2) = nil, t means "definitely, not every object of type1 is also of type2" 2016-03-14T13:44:35Z stassats: it uses subtypep to tell whether an object of type X can be of type Y as well 2016-03-14T13:44:40Z stassats: which does not work with multiple inheritance 2016-03-14T13:44:56Z scymtym_: yes, that seems to be the core of the issue 2016-03-14T13:45:28Z scymtym_: it should instead ask whether the intersection is known to be empty, i think 2016-03-14T13:48:29Z scymtym_: stassats: do you known why we abuse SUBTYPEP like that instead of asking whether (type= (type-intersection type1 type2) *empty-type*)? 2016-03-14T13:48:59Z stassats: well, ir1-transform-type-predicate returns NIL because of TYPES-EQUAL-OR-INTERSECT 2016-03-14T13:49:02Z stassats: not because of subtypep 2016-03-14T13:49:47Z scymtym_: yes, and TYPES-EQUAL-OR-INTERSECT uses TYPE-INTERSECTION2 => HIERARCHICAL-INTERSECTION2 => SUBTYPEP 2016-03-14T13:50:27Z scymtym_: and HIERARCHICAL-INTERSECTION2 is the one i don't understand (see comment at the end of the HTML i linked) 2016-03-14T13:51:15Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T13:53:32Z stassats: it's all well without multiple inheritance 2016-03-14T13:55:41Z stassats: too convoluted, did i say it's all too convoluted? 2016-03-14T13:55:50Z stassats: simple, complex, 2, no 2 2016-03-14T13:56:23Z stassats: even a thing named delegate-complex-intersection2 2016-03-14T13:57:59Z stassats: scymtym_: so, it should decided before calls hierarchical-intersection2 2016-03-14T13:58:02Z stassats: decide 2016-03-14T13:59:01Z scymtym_: probably 2016-03-14T13:59:36Z scymtym_: or maybe HIERARCHICAL-INTERSECTION2 can be fixed 2016-03-14T14:00:04Z stassats: i don't think it can be, if only punting on classoids 2016-03-14T14:00:16Z stassats: subclassable classoids 2016-03-14T14:01:58Z scymtym_: so maybe what i pasted yesterday could be a "fix" after all 2016-03-14T14:02:22Z stassats: but i still like subtypep being NIL T 2016-03-14T14:02:35Z salva quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-14T14:02:42Z scymtym_: that would be nice since it is more precise than NIL NIL 2016-03-14T14:02:43Z stassats: since it's the right answer, it's not a subtype and we are sure 2016-03-14T14:02:48Z scymtym_: yes 2016-03-14T14:03:15Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-14T14:03:43Z scymtym_: but SUBTYPEP seems to be the only possible place where the behavior can be changed in the chain IR1-TRANSFORM-TYPE-PREDICATE -> TYPES-EQUAL-OR-INTERSECT -> TYPE-INTERSECTION2 -> HIERARCHICAL-INTERSECTION2 (short of just hacking a special case into one of the functions) 2016-03-14T14:03:54Z stassats: change it in type-intersection2 2016-03-14T14:04:04Z stassats: it is a special case already 2016-03-14T14:05:19Z scymtym_: so the cases (e-s inst) (inst e-s) both yield an INTERSECTION-TYPE of the two types (and same for funcallable-instance)? 2016-03-14T14:06:15Z stassats: yeah 2016-03-14T14:06:55Z stassats: i didn't originally know that extended-sequence can be a function 2016-03-14T14:07:15Z stassats: so i thought it was always a subtype of instance and intersected into extended-sequence 2016-03-14T14:07:34Z stassats: but, it's not the case, so it would end up (and extended-sequence instance) 2016-03-14T14:07:57Z scymtym_: that's what i thought 2016-03-14T14:09:03Z scymtym_: but there may still be a chance to do something from the type class method instead of TYPE-INTERSECTION2 2016-03-14T14:09:52Z scymtym_: by defining SIMPLE-INTERSECTION2 for NAMED-TYPE 2016-03-14T14:10:25Z stassats: (named :complex-intersection2) is not being called for extended-sequence 2016-03-14T14:10:47Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-03-14T14:11:13Z scymtym_: yeah, *SIMPLE*-INTERSECTION2, because both types are NAMED-TYPE instances 2016-03-14T14:11:24Z stassats: battling missing macros 2016-03-14T14:11:41Z scymtym_: i just rebuild 2016-03-14T14:12:08Z stassats: well, i redefine, but sometimes i break something, and this being the compiler, have to restart and redo it 2016-03-14T14:12:14Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-14T14:12:31Z dougk_: stassats: you should just comment out the body of 'unintern-init-only-stuff'. That's what I do. 2016-03-14T14:12:33Z scymtym_: set *EVALUATOR-MODE* to :INTERPRET? 2016-03-14T14:12:41Z stassats: i had a changeset that disabled all the elision 2016-03-14T14:12:56Z stassats: but that's bound to confuse me and commit something that does not work normal builds 2016-03-14T14:13:02Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T14:13:25Z stassats: so i need a feature to be able to load rejected stuff after the build 2016-03-14T14:13:44Z stassats: serialize all the macros and put them into some file? 2016-03-14T14:14:36Z dougk_: it should also work to run 'chill' and compile the file with the macro you need. There are some non-idempotent toplevel calls but I've fixed most. I know of a few more though 2016-03-14T14:15:07Z stassats: chill is done by hand, isn't it? 2016-03-14T14:15:11Z dougk_: anyway I think it definitely works to recompile 'type-class', it could even be added to 'chill' 2016-03-14T14:15:15Z dougk_: yes, by hand you load it 2016-03-14T14:15:17Z stassats: maybe something automated can be done 2016-03-14T14:15:44Z stassats: well, loading it is, but it's written by hand too 2016-03-14T14:15:44Z dougk_: oh, you meant 'maintained by hand'. yes, that too 2016-03-14T14:18:20Z dougk_: how about: save the filename of any function that's about to be uninterned before it's actually uninterned. Write that list into 'chill-reload.lisp-expr' 2016-03-14T14:18:57Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-14T14:19:25Z stassats: that's a bit helpful, but think during xc we can save all the ! and eval-whened macros 2016-03-14T14:19:35Z stassats: and functions 2016-03-14T14:19:41Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T14:19:59Z stassats: well, that's just distracting from the intersection issue 2016-03-14T14:21:47Z stassats: scymtym_: i guess named doesn't assume classes are involved, so it uses hierarchical-intersection2, but extended-sequence throws a wrench into that idea 2016-03-14T14:22:04Z stassats: scymtym_: so, i extended-sequence should use complex-intersection2 2016-03-14T14:23:41Z DGASAU joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T14:24:37Z dougk_: if it helps any, it's fairly trivial now to create types which are unions/intersections/negations but have a unique interned object for them. So like LIST could be a singleton object, as long as you're willing to recognize it and pick off that in the logic of make-union-type 2016-03-14T14:26:03Z scymtym_: stassats: the core of the original was ext-seq and inst, so SIMPLE-INTERSECTION2 for NAMED may at least solve that part 2016-03-14T14:26:08Z stassats: instance with classes, or extended-sequence with classes are handled ok, but when they meet, it goes wrong 2016-03-14T14:26:23Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-14T14:27:42Z scymtym_: ok, that may have worked 2016-03-14T14:27:44Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T14:28:04Z stassats: scymtym_: which just handles extended-sequence and (funcallable)instance cases? and calls hierarchical-intersection2 otherwise? 2016-03-14T14:28:14Z stassats: SIMPLE-UNION2: # as well 2016-03-14T14:28:28Z scymtym_: yes 2016-03-14T14:29:15Z stassats: that sounds like the way 2016-03-14T14:29:21Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-14T14:30:05Z stassats: will you try it? 2016-03-14T14:30:22Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T14:30:37Z scymtym_: i'm trying the SIMPLE-INTERSECTION2 approach and it seems to work 2016-03-14T14:31:00Z scymtym_: are you asking whether i will also add a SIMPLE-UNION2? 2016-03-14T14:31:45Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-14T14:33:24Z stassats: no, but will you? 2016-03-14T14:33:55Z scymtym_: not sure, whether that is necessary 2016-03-14T14:33:55Z stassats: don't think it's needed 2016-03-14T14:36:06Z Bike quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-14T14:36:45Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T14:37:06Z DGASAU joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T14:38:39Z scymtym_: i updated the html file with the new results (same, now misleading text, though) 2016-03-14T14:38:43Z scymtym_: does that look ok? 2016-03-14T14:41:21Z stassats: seems alright 2016-03-14T14:41:31Z scymtym_: running tests 2016-03-14T14:42:25Z scymtym_: quite the yak shaving "just" to get four unit tests to work 2016-03-14T14:43:11Z stassats: i need to do something similar with classoid layout invalidation 2016-03-14T14:43:20Z stassats: write out all the cases, etc. 2016-03-14T14:43:37Z scymtym_: thanks for your help btw 2016-03-14T14:46:21Z stassats: i think i can make it easy and not invalidate finalized classes, since they are going to be invalidated before that 2016-03-14T14:46:33Z stassats: but i need to understand all the corner cases 2016-03-14T14:49:02Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-03-14T14:51:04Z DGASAU joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T14:53:19Z scymtym_: no test failures. now again with the actual extended-sequence changes 2016-03-14T14:55:34Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-03-14T15:00:34Z DGASAU joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T15:08:30Z rtmpdavid quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-14T15:34:02Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-14T15:54:46Z DGASAU joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T16:06:37Z Baggers quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-14T16:55:42Z gingerale joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T17:08:19Z 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discuss in ~ 30 min 2016-03-14T18:24:03Z stassats: what's not the case? the design? 2016-03-14T18:25:31Z DGASAU` joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T18:26:11Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-14T18:27:24Z DGASAU` is now known as DGASAU 2016-03-14T18:37:45Z gabnet joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T19:05:22Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-03-14T19:10:50Z gabnet quit (Quit: Quitte) 2016-03-14T19:24:36Z karswell joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T19:28:31Z scymtym_: iirc, only the "simple" version of the protocol use generic functions for iterator operations while implementations of the "full" version can return arbitrary functions 2016-03-14T19:35:16Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-14T19:35:34Z rtmpdavid joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T19:44:09Z DeadTrickster_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T19:44:40Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T19:46:17Z tcr joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T19:52:40Z tcr quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-14T19:54:35Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-14T19:54:35Z 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host closed the connection) 2016-03-15T09:33:23Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-15T09:34:45Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-15T09:40:22Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-03-15T09:41:24Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-15T09:46:15Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-15T09:59:46Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-15T10:19:50Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2016-03-15T10:25:37Z stassats: huh, (sb-ext:run-program "ls" () :error :outpu) returns NIL 2016-03-15T10:28:04Z stassats: looks like it just always returns NIL if anything it can't get a descriptor 2016-03-15T10:30:27Z stassats: bad indentation? 2016-03-15T10:31:07Z scymtym_: i think, the COND in GET-DESCRIPTOR-FOR has :output instead of (eq object :ouput) as the condition of one clause 2016-03-15T10:31:31Z stassats: the very end of the file, (error "Invalid option to RUN-PROGRAM: ~S" object) 2016-03-15T10:31:37Z stassats: it's on the wrong level 2016-03-15T10:31:54Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-15T10:32:13Z scymtym_: right, :output is from ecase direction 2016-03-15T10:32:17Z scymtym_: so yeah, bad indentation 2016-03-15T10:32:32Z stassats: ok, easy to fix, but the error is not descriptive 2016-03-15T10:32:40Z stassats: which option? etc. 2016-03-15T10:35:11Z stassats: so, i think it should be done from run-program, instead of (unless ,fd (return-from run-program)) 2016-03-15T10:35:38Z stassats: ;;; RUN-PROGRAM returns a PROCESS structure for the process if ;;; the fork worked, and NIL if it did not. 2016-03-15T10:35:50Z stassats: this is bullshit, if the work didn't work it will signal an error as well 2016-03-15T10:35:57Z stassats: the fork 2016-03-15T10:37:23Z scymtym_: that whole comment block should be merged into the documentation string and removed 2016-03-15T10:37:34Z scymtym_: as the FIXME says 2016-03-15T10:38:33Z Bike joined #sbcl 2016-03-15T10:41:35Z stassats: got it to say RUN-PROGRAM: invalid argument :ERROR :OUTPU 2016-03-15T10:42:43Z Bike quit (Ping 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2016-03-15T22:27:01Z stassats: i should have actually reduced that, huuuh 2016-03-15T22:27:10Z stassats: the bloody thing 2016-03-15T22:36:23Z stassats: ok, i think i see where i made a mistake 2016-03-15T22:39:41Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-15T22:40:39Z jasom: Any suggestions on debugging a corruption warning? Can I get it to halt instead of keeping going? 2016-03-15T22:40:56Z stassats: --lose-on-corruption 2016-03-15T22:41:12Z jasom: Also, what does (nil) mean in this: Memory fault at (nil) (pc=0x10001b8d07, sp=0x7ffff2cc03b8) 2016-03-15T22:41:19Z stassats: 0 2016-03-15T22:42:26Z jasom: ah, so likely a null pointer access in alien code? 2016-03-15T22:42:46Z stassats: no, anything can be happening 2016-03-15T22:43:02Z jasom: okay 2016-03-15T22:43:20Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-15T22:47:22Z jasom: make-alien signals an error if malloc returns NULL, right? 2016-03-15T22:55:07Z stassats: ok, a fix is easy, but ironclad is not prepared for instances becoming obsolete during shared-initialize (who would be?) 2016-03-15T23:01:59Z slyrus joined #sbcl 2016-03-15T23:02:19Z stassats: ok, i don't think i actually made any difference with my original change (which broke things) 2016-03-15T23:02:27Z stassats: it only helped when classes had no slots 2016-03-15T23:05:27Z stassats: i'll just revert the original change 2016-03-15T23:05:58Z stassats: ok, i won't, but i sure hope i'll come up with the right solution soon 2016-03-15T23:08:27Z stassats: finalization causes the layout to grow slots, hence it becomes invalid 2016-03-15T23:09:08Z stassats: and drowns all the subclasses with it 2016-03-15T23:09:48Z stassats: two options a) it shouldn't become invalid b) it shouldn't touch subclasses 2016-03-15T23:10:18Z stassats: or even c) it should become invalid in a better way, not with T 2016-03-15T23:11:42Z stassats: d) the T case should be handled in one step 2016-03-15T23:13:59Z salv0 quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-03-16T00:06:37Z jasom: http://paste.lisp.org/+6NDF <- any suggestions for getting more information out of this before quitting and trying again with more logging? 2016-03-16T00:07:23Z rtmpdavid quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-16T00:07:47Z stassats: well, all my suggestions are too complicated to follow 2016-03-16T00:09:39Z sjl quit 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2016-03-19T20:24:47Z stassats: rather, constant, not in-line 2016-03-19T20:25:07Z stassats: and variable => 0.100 2016-03-19T20:25:32Z stassats: and less consing too 2016-03-19T20:44:29Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-19T20:58:17Z les` quit (Quit: "") 2016-03-19T20:58:32Z les joined #sbcl 2016-03-19T21:11:40Z prxq joined #sbcl 2016-03-19T21:39:18Z sjl__ joined #sbcl 2016-03-19T21:41:16Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-03-19T21:55:45Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-19T22:01:56Z jdz joined #sbcl 2016-03-19T22:25:04Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-03-19T22:29:18Z |3b| quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-19T23:19:54Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-19T23:26:40Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-19T23:32:27Z DeadTrickster joined #sbcl 2016-03-19T23:40:48Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2016-03-20T00:15:42Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 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2016-03-20T15:39:58Z haom: is this a possible bug in sbcl? 2016-03-20T15:39:58Z pkhuong: looks like you corrupted glibc's heap 2016-03-20T15:40:41Z haom: I'm passing a lisp string to a C function that expects a wchar_t string. 2016-03-20T15:42:20Z haom: what does that mean, is this a bug on the sbcl or glibc side? 2016-03-20T15:45:06Z stassats: your code side 2016-03-20T15:47:44Z haom: I've pretty much isolated the place, a C function expects a L"abc" wide string, and i'm passing a pointer returned by cffi:foreign-string-alloc "abc". 2016-03-20T15:48:09Z stassats: i don't think foreign-string-alloc allocates wide characters 2016-03-20T15:48:13Z pkhuong: haom: what makes you think that foreign-string-alloc allocates a string of wchar_t ? 2016-03-20T15:49:36Z haom: nothing, i'm trying to find out how to do that. 2016-03-20T15:50:01Z pkhuong: #lisp might know. 2016-03-20T15:50:09Z haom: i wasnt sure whether this is my fault or maybe a bug, since i ended up in the low level debugger. 2016-03-20T15:50:15Z haom: #lisp sent me over here. 2016-03-20T15:50:50Z pkhuong: you ended up in a glibc error. the low level debugger just trapped the error instead of sending you straight to a core. 2016-03-20T15:54:00Z pkhuong: #lisp should know how to use CFFI now that you've identified the problem. 2016-03-20T15:54:47Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-20T16:00:59Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-20T17:04:33Z stassats: (require :sb-gmp) on osx without threads (and some other stuff) seems to be stuck 2016-03-20T17:08:28Z stassats: because some nincompoop put libgmp.3.dylib, a symbol, as an argument to load-shared-object on darwin 2016-03-20T17:22:24Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-20T17:58:43Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-20T17:58:43Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2016-03-20T17:58:43Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-20T18:14:36Z haom left #sbcl 2016-03-20T19:07:32Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2016-03-20T19:07:50Z Shinmera 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share structure with the result or is a new sequence returned? 2016-03-21T00:56:11Z sindar: nevermind; it shares elements. Therefore, copy-tree 2016-03-21T00:59:05Z Bike: subseq isn't allowed to share structure 2016-03-21T01:16:33Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-21T02:04:03Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T02:20:06Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-21T04:07:43Z sindar: Bike: I was wrong; I started looking up copy-seq, which shares elements, and the clhs says for it "(copy-seq x) == (subseq x 0)", therefore my confusion 2016-03-21T05:17:55Z _iwc joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T06:47:29Z igajsin joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T06:47:35Z igajsin left #sbcl 2016-03-21T06:48:24Z slyrus joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T06:53:57Z angavrilov joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T07:04:42Z DeadTrickster joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T07:06:25Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-21T07:06:50Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-21T07:29:28Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-03-21T07:32:46Z salva0 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-21T07:53:01Z Shinmera joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T07:57:41Z salva0 joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T08:27:42Z myrkraverk quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-21T08:41:24Z myrkraverk joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T08:55:24Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-21T10:04:11Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T10:08:34Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-21T10:10:04Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T10:14:25Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-21T10:17:10Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T10:20:41Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T10:21:30Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-21T10:25:07Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T10:32:37Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T10:32:37Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2016-03-21T10:32:37Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T11:07:37Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-21T11:15:15Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T11:20:37Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-03-21T11:21:33Z DGASAU joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T11:39:15Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-21T12:39:36Z mateuszb_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T12:40:27Z scymtym: one of the CONCATENATE optimizations seems to have broken the build without sb-unicode: https://ci.cor-lab.org/job/sbcl-master/1540/featureset=3,label=ubuntu_trusty_32bit/consoleFull (search for "%CONCATENATE-TO-STRING") 2016-03-21T12:41:07Z mateuszb quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-21T13:26:13Z stassats: scymtym: i expected that to happen 2016-03-21T13:27:01Z stassats: though, i didn't expect a test just being bogus 2016-03-21T13:42:50Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-03-21T13:43:14Z DGASAU joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T13:57:04Z scymtym: yeah, searching the disassembly like this seems fragile 2016-03-21T13:57:39Z stassats: the transform was a bit simple-minded, just checking for symbols and not actual types 2016-03-21T13:57:57Z stassats: so that's why it was the same on -sb-unicode 2016-03-21T13:59:48Z stassats: and my fix is wrong, duh 2016-03-21T14:16:36Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (Quit: Gone.) 2016-03-21T14:22:14Z whiteline joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T14:45:25Z psilord1 joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T15:30:00Z abeaumont joined #sbcl 2016-03-21T15:40:46Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-03-21T16:06:10Z mateuszb_ quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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myrkraverk joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T07:57:08Z |3b|`` is now known as |3b| 2016-03-22T08:15:24Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-22T08:25:46Z gingerale joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T08:27:14Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-22T08:44:22Z ASau joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T08:45:00Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T08:46:24Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-22T09:06:57Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2016-03-22T09:07:01Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-03-22T09:27:13Z flip214: Is it possible that SBCL 1.3.3 now remembers --script across a dump-and-die cycle? 2016-03-22T09:27:32Z flip214: I've got a script that makes a custom core file, and then uses that later on. 2016-03-22T09:28:17Z flip214: but since upgrading to debian 1.3.3-1 every error kills the process completely: 2016-03-22T09:28:23Z flip214: unhandled condition in --disable-debugger mode, quitting 2016-03-22T09:28:36Z flip214: although the *current* process is not called with --script 2016-03-22T09:30:43Z DeadTrickster: I think it can save disabled debugger state 2016-03-22T09:30:48Z DeadTrickster: just enable it yourself 2016-03-22T09:31:10Z DeadTrickster: (sb-ext:enable-debugger) 2016-03-22T09:33:19Z |3b| thought it always did that 2016-03-22T09:33:31Z |3b|: at least the debugger part 2016-03-22T09:34:29Z |3b|: arch had that problem for a while, when they used --script to dump an image with updated source locations 2016-03-22T09:38:56Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T09:38:56Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2016-03-22T09:38:56Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T09:44:06Z flip214: DeadTrickster: yes, right. thanks. 2016-03-22T09:44:26Z flip214: but it's not backwards compatible, don't know who else might get bitten by that. 2016-03-22T10:06:28Z adhoc joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T10:10:55Z adhoc left #sbcl 2016-03-22T10:29:37Z Posterdati quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-22T10:30:09Z barbone quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 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2016-03-22T17:05:38Z jasom: The global state is saved, including whether or not the debugger is enabled 2016-03-22T17:06:11Z jasom: :save-runtime-options t to s-l-a-d will save the runtime options, and inhibit runtime option processing 2016-03-22T17:07:33Z jasom: if you were to manually call (sb-ext:disable-debugger) then do a save-lisp-and-die the debugger would still be disabled. 2016-03-22T17:10:52Z flip214: :save-runtime-options is not passed to s-l-a-d 2016-03-22T17:12:38Z stassats: flip214: there was no changes to this 2016-03-22T17:12:55Z stassats: it's been always like this 2016-03-22T17:14:12Z flip214: well, there was *some* change that affected this behaviour. 2016-03-22T17:14:50Z stassats: it wasn't like this when there was no --script option, true 2016-03-22T17:15:10Z flip214: I'm using that setup since quite a few years, and it stopped working when upgrading 1.3.1 to 1.3.3. 2016-03-22T17:16:05Z stassats: you're just misinterpreting your findings 2016-03-22T17:16:31Z flip214: the two scripts managing this were last changed March 2014, and Sept. 2015... 2016-03-22T17:17:10Z flip214: stassats: possibly it's my fault. 2016-03-22T17:17:30Z DGASAU` joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T17:17:43Z flip214: I'm just saying that this change is unexpected, and that I wouldn't know what else could have affected it. 2016-03-22T17:18:42Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-22T17:20:00Z DGASAU` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-22T17:21:02Z DGASAU joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T17:34:32Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-22T17:37:36Z myrkraverk: Is it possible, to detect with lisp code, if it's running through a hashbang? As in #!/usr/bin/sbcl --script 2016-03-22T17:37:51Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-03-22T17:38:05Z karswell joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T17:38:07Z myrkraverk: (I actually meant to ask in #lisp, so I'll do that now) 2016-03-22T17:41:05Z stassats: myrkraverk: why? 2016-03-22T17:41:35Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T17:42:38Z myrkraverk: For some things, it seems simpler to add (load "~/.sbclrc") to my scripts, but that has more than I want for scripts. 2016-03-22T17:43:17Z myrkraverk: so (unless *script* ...) is what I'd like to put there. 2016-03-22T17:43:52Z myrkraverk: Even better if I can #-sbcl-script it. 2016-03-22T17:44:38Z stassats: just don't use --script then? 2016-03-22T17:46:20Z myrkraverk: C: 2016-03-22T17:48:11Z stassats: or (load "~/.script-sbclrc") 2016-03-22T17:49:04Z myrkraverk: Yeah, it's really just because the stuff I put in ~/.sbclrc changes depending on host, while the script itself is used all over the place. 2016-03-22T17:49:34Z eudoxia joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T17:49:38Z stassats: don't put so much stuff into .sbclrc 2016-03-22T17:49:39Z myrkraverk: Of course, I can invent ~/.script-sbclrc too, which indeed does the trick. 2016-03-22T17:49:40Z stassats: then 2016-03-22T17:51:16Z stassats: (defvar *running-a-script* t) (load "~/.sbclrc") 2016-03-22T17:51:59Z myrkraverk: *nod* that works too. 2016-03-22T17:52:19Z dougk_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-22T17:52:42Z dougk_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T17:53:46Z stassats: (push :running-a-script *features*) 2016-03-22T17:55:13Z myrkraverk: Yes, that too. 2016-03-22T17:55:16Z myrkraverk: Lots of options. 2016-03-22T18:04:46Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-22T18:09:11Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-22T18:14:17Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-03-22T18:19:05Z barbone quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-03-22T18:21:17Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T18:23:39Z rudolfochrist joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T18:38:38Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-22T18:39:44Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T18:44:19Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-22T18:44:50Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-22T18:45:46Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T18:46:49Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T18:52:04Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-22T18:52:28Z salva0 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-03-22T18:53:17Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T18:55:48Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-22T18:57:10Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T19:11:50Z barbone joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T19:14:38Z jasom: I've switched away from using #! to using an exec shell script inside a #| comment anyway 2016-03-22T19:15:23Z jasom: that allows specifying whatever options I need and is portable to any posix compatible shell 2016-03-22T19:28:04Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-03-22T19:28:59Z DGASAU joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T19:44:31Z myrkraverk: jasom: oh yeah. 2016-03-22T19:45:57Z stassats: jasom: does it work on all the kernels? 2016-03-22T19:48:10Z jasom: stassats: huh? 2016-03-22T19:48:53Z stassats: #! is not a shell thing, it's an execve thing 2016-03-22T19:50:21Z jasom: stassats: ah, #| is a shell thing 2016-03-22T19:50:50Z jasom: posix mandates that if an execution fails with a bad format, the shell should interpret it 2016-03-22T19:51:28Z jasom: f the execve() function fails due to an error equivalent to the [ENOEXEC] error defined in the System Interfaces volume of IEEE Std 1003.1-2001, the shell shall execute a command equivalent to having a shell invoked with the pathname resulting from the search as its first operand, with any remaining arguments passed to the new shell, except that the value of "$0" in the new shell may be set to the command name. 2016-03-22T19:51:30Z jasom: If the executable file is not a text file, the shell may bypass this command execution. In this case, it shall write an error message, and shall return an exit status of 126. 2016-03-22T19:52:23Z rudolfochrist quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1)) 2016-03-22T19:52:38Z jasom: the only gotcha is "may" for $0 setting, but it seems to be more reliable than e.g. multiple arguments to #! 2016-03-22T20:02:43Z ccl-logbot joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T20:02:43Z 2016-03-22T20:02:43Z names: ccl-logbot DGASAU barbone Bicyclidine stassats dougk_ karswell fiddlerwoaroof andreh edgar-rft Bike angavrilov kanru Posterdati attila_lendvai gingerale myrkraverk Shinmera |3b| mateuszb Xach_ jdz akkad jasom DeadTrickster whiteline _iwc yvm les foom alchemis7 p_l dsp- minion nzambe loke PuercoPop Intensity drmeister christoph_debian scymtym reb`` luis aeth fitzsim mood jsnell_ ferada leo_song jackc- chu pootler_ chris2 irsol flip214 brucem specbot fe[nl]ix 2016-03-22T20:02:43Z names: Blkt_ joshe pchrist dim yauz abbe Ober carvite gko pkhuong dustinm` sigjuice hitecnologys nicdev White_Flame jackdaniel antoszka 2016-03-22T20:03:57Z stassats: maybe, who knows, it's all so intertwined 2016-03-22T20:05:29Z mordocai joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T20:06:31Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-22T20:06:49Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-22T20:07:12Z stassats: why did SB-SYS::FIND-FOREIGN-SYMBOL-ADDRESS crash? 2016-03-22T20:07:29Z jasom: stassats: still looking into that 2016-03-22T20:07:43Z stassats: which os? 2016-03-22T20:07:47Z jasom: linux 2016-03-22T20:08:27Z stassats: attach gdb, disassemble 0x416f8a 2016-03-22T20:08:27Z jasom: Linux version 3.9.4-1-ARCH (tobias@T-POWA-LX) (gcc version 4.8.0 20130502 (prerelease) (GCC) ) #1 SMP PREEMPT Sat May 25 16:14:55 CEST 2013 2016-03-22T20:08:43Z jasom: stassats: sorry, will need to reproduce it again 2016-03-22T20:08:49Z stassats: it's not reproducible? 2016-03-22T20:08:53Z jasom: takes hours 2016-03-22T20:08:59Z stassats: that's bad 2016-03-22T20:09:02Z jasom: reproduces reliably within 8 hours 2016-03-22T20:09:10Z stassats: don't reproduce it then 2016-03-22T20:09:15Z stassats: just attach gdb 2016-03-22T20:09:19Z jasom: I've tried a few things to make it happen quicker, but nothing seems to 2016-03-22T20:09:23Z stassats: and do disassemble 0x416f8a 2016-03-22T20:10:22Z stassats: it's probably lisp_memory_fault_error 2016-03-22T20:10:30Z stassats: but tell me what it is anyway 2016-03-22T20:10:37Z jasom: low_level_handle_now_handler: 2016-03-22T20:10:42Z stassats: close enough 2016-03-22T20:10:53Z stassats: ok, what about 0x7ffff79c8e80? 2016-03-22T20:11:09Z jasom: __restore_rt: 2016-03-22T20:12:30Z stassats: ok 2016-03-22T20:12:46Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-22T20:13:14Z jasom: oh, on the previous topic: if you want a *truely portable* on *nix launch for lisp, this is slightly better than just starting with #| as it doesn't rely at all on the shell, just taht /bin/sh is mostly posix compatible: http://paste.lisp.org/+6O41 2016-03-22T20:14:31Z jasom: whoops, put the (set-dispatch-macro-character) fix in the wrong spot for some reason 2016-03-22T20:14:59Z stassats: what about windows? 2016-03-22T20:15:20Z stassats: nevermind, this crash is more interesting anyway 2016-03-22T20:15:25Z jasom: right 2016-03-22T20:15:34Z stassats: why would SB-ALIEN::ALIEN-TYPE-CLASS-OR-LOSE die with an internal error? 2016-03-22T20:16:26Z jasom: it is possible that someone overwrote SBCL's memory 2016-03-22T20:16:49Z stassats: yes, because this stuff doesn't make sense 2016-03-22T20:17:07Z jasom: I'm running with a compiler policy of safety 3 2016-03-22T20:17:24Z stassats: this involves ffi, may not help a bit 2016-03-22T20:17:26Z jasom: so that lets me narrow it down at least to foreign code (or a bug in sbcl, but that seems less likely) 2016-03-22T20:18:01Z jasom: pzmq is the only thing that calls into foreign code, I *think* (haven't completely checked that) 2016-03-22T20:18:53Z stassats: always calling SB-SYS::FIND-FOREIGN-SYMBOL-ADDRESS seems like a waste of time 2016-03-22T20:19:25Z jasom: is it necessary for errno? I know that var is sui generis 2016-03-22T20:20:01Z stassats: it's not necessary for anything, but cffi may be a bit simple-minded 2016-03-22T20:21:01Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-03-22T20:22:00Z stassats: yeah, cffi is 2016-03-22T20:22:15Z stassats: (cffi:defcvar errno :int) (defun foo () errno) 2016-03-22T20:22:21Z stassats: (time (loop repeat 1000000 do (foo ))) => 1.282 seconds of real time 2016-03-22T20:22:25Z stassats: 160,000,656 bytes consed 2016-03-22T20:22:40Z stassats: (defun foo2 () (extern-alien "errno" int)) => 0.005 seconds of real time, 0 bytes consed 2016-03-22T20:23:55Z jasom: probably just the lowest-common-denominator of lisp FFIs 2016-03-22T20:24:12Z stassats: this can be improved 2016-03-22T20:25:53Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T20:26:28Z stassats: but i don't want to be the one 2016-03-22T20:27:41Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T20:35:09Z barbone quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-03-22T20:36:10Z stassats: and i don't think my code extensively uses defcvar to motivate me 2016-03-22T20:38:16Z attila_lendvai: stassats: FYI, recorded it as a bug here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cffi/+bug/1560678 2016-03-22T20:38:51Z stassats: good 2016-03-22T20:39:00Z attila_lendvai: the fix requires making CFFI's internals smarter. I bailed out because I don't know any other FFI than sb-alien, if that... 2016-03-22T20:40:09Z stassats: it actually isn't that hard to achieve 2016-03-22T20:40:53Z stassats: just needs to expand into code that uses (foreign-symbol-sap "errno" t) 2016-03-22T20:43:20Z attila_lendvai: stassats: if interr.lisp is later in build-order.lisp-expr than error-error, does that mean that it can use the definitions unconstrained in error-error? SB-KERNEL::INTERNAL-ERROR is after error-error, maybe it could use the smarter error-error trap machiner? 2016-03-22T20:43:44Z stassats: i don't want to look at it today, it's a rabbit hole 2016-03-22T20:44:48Z stassats: what on earth? WARNING: redefining UIOP/PACKAGE:FIND-PACKAGE* in DEFUN 2016-03-22T20:44:58Z stassats: bloody asdf 2016-03-22T20:47:06Z stassats: can't figure out what makes it get redefined 2016-03-22T20:47:18Z stassats: this is the most painful feature ever imagined 2016-03-22T20:47:32Z stassats: (and i'm holding back on expletives here) 2016-03-22T20:47:53Z attila_lendvai: is it due to the asdf selfupgrade stuff? 2016-03-22T20:48:00Z stassats: yeah 2016-03-22T20:48:04Z stassats: but it shouldn't happen 2016-03-22T20:48:31Z stassats: looks like it only affects uiop 2016-03-22T20:48:36Z attila_lendvai: it's only that one definition? I've never seen that, it's always in a big group for me 2016-03-22T20:48:44Z stassats: no, it's the whole lot 2016-03-22T20:48:52Z stassats: but, just uiop 2016-03-22T20:50:23Z stassats: that's what threw me off, i saw no asdf.asd in the search path, but uiop.asd is there 2016-03-22T20:50:51Z stassats curses some more 2016-03-22T20:55:32Z attila_lendvai: jasom: if you feel motivated in tracking this down more, then you could redefine sb-vm::internal-error-args and the others on the stack with (declare (optimize (debug 3))) before the crash happens 2016-03-22T20:56:57Z stassats: attila_lendvai: i'll take corrupted heap for 500 2016-03-22T20:57:17Z jasom: attila_lendvai: I'm not, since I found something that is likely to corrupt the image; for some reason I never tracked down, using the msg-* versions of the zmq functions seem to corrupt the heap with pzmq 2016-03-22T20:57:24Z stassats: because it fails where it shouldn't, and the some more 2016-03-22T20:57:26Z jasom: and I found one place where I'm using pzmq:msg-send 2016-03-22T20:58:51Z attila_lendvai: ok, I also stop looking into this. error handling smells messy for me. my impression is that it could be cleaned up/simplified considerably, but then I don't know much about the sbcl bootstrap, so... 2016-03-22T20:58:59Z prxq joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T21:00:10Z stassats: it surely could 2016-03-22T21:04:56Z stassats: jasom: it actually more like a stack corruption 2016-03-22T21:05:00Z stassats: likely 2016-03-22T21:06:31Z jasom: stassats: oh, maybe I have an errant with-foreign-pointer 2016-03-22T21:06:54Z jasom: which could also explain it not having any problems on ccl if ccl doesn't stack allocate those 2016-03-22T21:07:48Z jasom: I only learned a few months ago that with-foreign-pointer stack allocates, when my message size got bigger than my stack. 2016-03-22T21:08:05Z dougk_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-03-22T21:08:36Z jasom needs to write a "with-foreign-alloc" macro that works like with-foreign-pointer but heap allocates; I have too many (let (p) (unwind-protect (progn ...) (foreign-free p)) blocks 2016-03-22T21:08:54Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-22T21:10:33Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-22T21:15:31Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T21:20:42Z dougk_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T21:25:32Z stassats: jasom: reading some zmq doc it says zmq_msg_init and zmq_msg_init_size cannot be used at the same time 2016-03-22T21:28:55Z stassats: jasom: with-message calls msg-init, then you call msg_init_size 2016-03-22T21:38:17Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-22T21:48:54Z slyrus joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T21:59:04Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-22T21:59:35Z ASau joined #sbcl 2016-03-22T21:59:44Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-22T22:06:23Z jasom: ah 2016-03-22T22:06:38Z jasom: that would indeed explain it 2016-03-22T22:06:56Z stassats: that may be not the problem, but at least it's against the spec 2016-03-22T22:07:01Z jasom: yup 2016-03-22T22:07:08Z jasom: oh, I have it reproduced again 2016-03-22T22:07:34Z jasom: did you want me to try anything? 2016-03-22T22:07:35Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2016-03-22T22:07:38Z stassats: not really 2016-03-22T22:08:02Z stassats: i guess try not initializing it twice and try to reproduce again 2016-03-22T22:08:10Z jasom: right, I was planning on doing that anyway 2016-03-22T22:08:13Z stassats: i would think using larger message would help 2016-03-22T22:08:25Z dougk_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-03-23T00:05:52Z barbone joined #sbcl 2016-03-23T00:17:33Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-23T00:19:54Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-23T00:34:36Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-23T00:35:07Z dougk_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-23T00:36:45Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-23T00:49:02Z Xach joined #sbcl 2016-03-23T00:50:59Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-23T00:52:46Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-23T00:58:56Z andreh joined #sbcl 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Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2016-03-24T18:19:59Z stassats: got source locations for condition slot readers/writers 2016-03-24T18:20:22Z stassats: not precise, as for defclass, but still 2016-03-24T18:20:47Z stassats: and turns out, they get redefined during definition, not a big problem, i guess 2016-03-24T18:21:22Z stassats: i wonder which locations i'm still missing 2016-03-24T18:30:49Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-03-24T18:32:49Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-24T18:41:00Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-24T18:41:34Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-24T18:44:16Z barbone joined #sbcl 2016-03-24T18:48:59Z barbone quit (Client Quit) 2016-03-24T19:01:04Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-24T19:12:30Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-24T19:13:44Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-24T19:16:27Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-24T19:17:01Z DGASAU joined #sbcl 2016-03-24T19:39:25Z prxq 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I think I may have found an odd bug 2016-03-25T00:53:17Z sea``: (mod -6.698875e7 255.0) => 259.0 2016-03-25T00:53:18Z sea``: This can't be right. 2016-03-25T00:55:31Z sea``: This is sbcl 1.1.14.debian, so the sbcl that came with my system (ubuntu something-or-other) 2016-03-25T00:56:01Z Cthulhux` joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T00:56:11Z aeth: I get the same result on 1.2.15 (Fedora 23) 2016-03-25T00:57:07Z sea``: Oh good. I was worried no-one would answer. Yeah, so there you go. This just crashed my program, which was a shame, because it had been running for a few hours up until it hit that magic input. 2016-03-25T01:23:49Z chu_ is now known as chu 2016-03-25T01:28:24Z hydan joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T01:28:27Z hydan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-25T01:33:11Z hydan joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T01:35:35Z hydan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-25T01:36:07Z hydan joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T01:36:24Z hydan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-25T01:42:11Z hydan joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T02:06:47Z edgar-rft quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-25T02:06:49Z christoph_debian quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-25T02:06:51Z edgar-rf_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T02:07:30Z christoph_debian joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T02:07:37Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-25T02:08:00Z whiteline joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T02:19:27Z zRecursive joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T05:48:33Z jasom: sea``: that looks correct to me 2016-03-25T05:49:28Z jasom: (mod a b) is the same as (nth-value 1 (floor a b)) 2016-03-25T05:50:06Z jasom: (mod -6.698875d7 255.0) will return what you are expecting though 2016-03-25T05:54:36Z jasom: and floor is only guaranteed to be exact if a single number is given; you've passed two numbers, so the results are not guaranteed to be exact 2016-03-25T05:56:17Z Bike: it's still surprising. also, floor says that (floor (/ a b)) and (floor a b) should have the same zeroth value, but in this case they do not, so that's another surprise. 2016-03-25T06:02:31Z jasom: oh, interesting. That does seem wrong then 2016-03-25T06:09:56Z jasom: and ecl and clisp yield the more sensible -262701 from that, while ccl behaves like sbcl 2016-03-25T06:10:57Z Bike: ccl also has the exact same implementation of mod, in terms of rem. i thought that was interesting. 2016-03-25T06:10:58Z jasom: Are the notes normative? 2016-03-25T06:12:06Z Bike: uh. no idea. i'm not immediately concerned with conformance, though. 2016-03-25T06:12:49Z Bike: oh. no they are not. 2016-03-25T06:12:59Z Bike: 1 4 3 2016-03-25T07:02:59Z gingerale joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T07:33:42Z Shinmera joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T07:42:19Z nzambe quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-25T07:56:13Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-25T08:16:17Z hydan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-25T08:17:01Z hydan joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T09:01:47Z zRecursive quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-25T09:28:24Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T09:39:51Z yvm quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-25T09:39:52Z angavrilov joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T09:40:01Z yvm joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T09:42:45Z edgar-rf_ quit (Quit: edgar-rf_) 2016-03-25T09:46:54Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T09:46:55Z yvm_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T09:48:40Z angavrilov quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-25T09:48:40Z yvm quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-25T09:48:40Z angavrilov_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T09:48:40Z angavrilov_ quit (Client Quit) 2016-03-25T09:48:40Z angavrilov_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T09:51:28Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-25T09:51:51Z stassats joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T09:51:53Z angavrilov_ quit (*.net *.split) 2016-03-25T09:53:31Z angavrilov_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T09:56:08Z angavrilov joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T10:04:58Z angavrilov_ quit (*.net *.split) 2016-03-25T10:55:23Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-03-25T10:59:40Z barbone quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2016-03-25T11:17:12Z scymtym joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T11:39:40Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T11:48:15Z leo_song quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-25T11:51:17Z leo_song joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T11:55:31Z scymtym_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T12:01:19Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-25T12:08:34Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-25T13:07:25Z barbone joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T13:09:05Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T13:10:27Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-25T13:21:44Z myrkraverk quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-25T13:37:38Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T13:37:55Z myrkraverk joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T13:39:28Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-25T13:56:25Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T14:02:24Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-25T14:53:55Z DeadTrickster_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T14:54:37Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-03-25T15:05:56Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T15:10:39Z andreh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-03-25T16:06:27Z kenanb joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T16:12:54Z kenanb: type specifier VALUES says "The symbol values is not valid as a type specifier", function SUBTYPEP says "subtypep is permitted to return the values false and false only when at least one argument involves one of these type specifiers: and, eql, the list form of function, member, not, or, satisfies, or values." and issue SUBTYPEP-TOO-VAGUE says "This version eliminates the requirement to signal an error." which also explicitly includes 2016-03-25T16:12:54Z kenanb: the behaviour of "values" in this. sbcl errors for (subtypep '(values symbol) t) 2016-03-25T16:14:01Z kenanb: is that a misinterpretation of spec because it said permitted instead of being more specific, because it is more specific in other places, but it is kind of spread across the spec and issues. 2016-03-25T16:20:28Z stassats: kenanb: TYPEP specifies that an error is signalled 2016-03-25T16:20:56Z stassats: but typep has no two return values 2016-03-25T16:21:16Z stassats: but the code between subtypep and typep is shared 2016-03-25T16:21:40Z stassats: kenanb: does it cause problems for some code? 2016-03-25T16:22:04Z kenanb: yeah, the referenced issue seemed very specific in that it is trying to handle subtypep very specificly for handling of type specifiers to make it more useful in cases that caused problems in the implementations of the past proposal 2016-03-25T16:22:36Z stassats: the standard says it should return NIL, NIL, and it does make sense 2016-03-25T16:22:54Z stassats: typep says it errors, it also makes sense, since it returns just one value 2016-03-25T16:23:03Z stassats: but this is a minor issue i'm not rushing to address 2016-03-25T16:23:05Z kenanb: stassats: I don't think it would cause any problems in sane code 2016-03-25T16:23:17Z kenanb: but I didn't think about its implications enough 2016-03-25T16:23:25Z stassats: ccl does the same thing 2016-03-25T16:25:55Z kenanb: I just felt like asking if that would be considered a violation of spec, because the issue is very specific that it shouldn't error, it says the past version required values to error, and a further issue is proposed because that rendered subtypep less useful 2016-03-25T16:26:06Z stassats: yeah, it is a violation 2016-03-25T16:26:23Z stassats: issues aren't part of the standard, though 2016-03-25T16:27:15Z kenanb: yeah, but it seems like the intention was in that direction, only that they didn't realize they are not being specific enough in revising the actual spec by saying "permitted" 2016-03-25T16:27:40Z stassats: the subtypep entry seems clear enough as it is 2016-03-25T16:27:58Z stassats: well, it was changed as per the issue, but not verbatim 2016-03-25T16:29:00Z kenanb: anyway, I don't reck on it would really cause any problems the way it is, and I don't think a future change will do so too, so a revision can be delayed to a date closer to infinity 2016-03-25T16:30:04Z kenanb: while at it, there is also this comment in the beginning of this gist that I realized: https://gist.github.com/kenanb/d6b835bde05d9078e57c 2016-03-25T16:31:04Z kenanb: this actually is problematic IMHO, because documentation in some scenarios will not be able to be retrieved 2016-03-25T16:34:03Z stassats: well, it's not valid to define such a method 2016-03-25T16:34:31Z stassats: clhs 11.1.2.1.2 2016-03-25T16:34:31Z specbot: Constraints on the COMMON-LISP Package for Conforming Programs: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/11_abab.htm 2016-03-25T16:34:35Z stassats: the very last point 2016-03-25T16:35:24Z Bike: that's not the problem, the problem was that sbcl's method used the PCL documentation slot directly instead of calling documentation again. 2016-03-25T16:35:39Z stassats: but it's not permitted anyhow 2016-03-25T16:35:48Z Bike: what isn't? 2016-03-25T16:36:13Z stassats: defining documentation (x symbol) (doc-type (eql 'type)) 2016-03-25T16:36:46Z Bike: Right, for the user, but SBCL's existing method on that could be more flexible. 2016-03-25T16:37:51Z stassats: which methods should call DOCUMENTATION again? 2016-03-25T16:39:20Z Bike: symbol (eql type). but i think this is moot, because if i'm not mistaken, cfdd7ae fixed it so it already works like kenanb wants. 2016-03-25T16:39:39Z stassats: i don't quite get it, why? 2016-03-25T16:40:07Z stassats: ok, looking at the commit clears it up 2016-03-25T16:40:13Z Bike: What happened was, the user would define a method on (some-metaclass t), and that's fine, but then... ok great. 2016-03-25T16:40:22Z scymtym_: Bike: i think i fixed that in cfdd7ae and its parent commits 2016-03-25T16:40:31Z kenanb: cool! 2016-03-25T16:40:38Z Bike: indeed 2016-03-25T16:40:41Z scymtym_: oh, sorry, you said that already 2016-03-25T16:40:54Z kenanb: I was trying to come up with an example, great to hear it is already fixed. 2016-03-25T16:41:53Z stassats: i wonder if i can make defining methods as per 11.1.2.1.2:19 to cause a package lock violation 2016-03-25T16:41:53Z kenanb: should I also inform cmucl people from some channel? or is there some form of cross development between cmucl and sbcl development 2016-03-25T16:42:02Z stassats: that ought to make some people unhappy 2016-03-25T16:42:22Z stassats: kenanb: no cross, really 2016-03-25T16:42:46Z kenanb: I would be so unhappy if I cannot define documentation specializing on layered-class to be fair :) 2016-03-25T16:42:53Z stassats: well, layered-class is fine 2016-03-25T16:43:05Z stassats: i thought you wanted to redefine (documentation (x symbol) (doc-type (eql 'type))) 2016-03-25T16:45:08Z kenanb: ah I see, hell no, the problem was my definition was not being effective for a call that select that method as its effective primary method. I am perfectly fine for a lock on that violation 2016-03-25T16:45:33Z kenanb: thank you for enlightening me on the issue folks :) 2016-03-25T16:46:33Z stassats: causing a package violation if it causes a method to be redefined is probably fair game 2016-03-25T16:47:58Z Bike: no actual redefinition should be involved... it's just that you have (defmethod documentation ((x symbol) (type (eql 'type))) (documentation (find-class symbol) t)) or so, now 2016-03-25T16:48:19Z stassats: but (defmethod documentation ((x symbol) (doc-type (eql 'type)))) causes no error 2016-03-25T16:48:55Z Bike: oh, i see. could probably err on that, yeah. 2016-03-25T16:49:23Z stassats: though completely enforcing it would be problematic for something like (defmethod documentation ((x symbol) (doc-type (eql 'something-custom)))) 2016-03-25T16:49:28Z kenanb: so just to be sure, I was not writing any non-conformant program in that gist, right? 2016-03-25T16:49:35Z stassats: which i can imagine being legitimate 2016-03-25T16:50:00Z Bike: maybe 11.etc bans specializing on eql types of CL symbols? 2016-03-25T16:50:03Z stassats: kenanb: contextl:layered-class is not a built-in class, so, you're in the clear 2016-03-25T16:50:17Z Bike: apparently not 2016-03-25T16:50:23Z kenanb: cool :) 2016-03-25T16:50:35Z stassats: Bike: no, direct instances of standard classes, which is every symbol 2016-03-25T16:50:53Z stassats: heeding the standard until it becomes obnoxious is the job of clisp 2016-03-25T16:51:22Z stassats: so, i can settle for redefinition, even though inheritance will cause effective redefinition too 2016-03-25T16:51:26Z Bike: ah, yes. that is a bit restrictive 2016-03-25T16:54:14Z stassats: but i wonder how i can distinguish between system defined methods 2016-03-25T16:55:56Z stassats: from the source location, maybe 2016-03-25T16:55:58Z kenanb: is that the same last bullet we are talking about? 2016-03-25T16:56:05Z stassats: yeah 2016-03-25T16:56:17Z stassats: broke the slime inspector fiddling around that "There is no applicable method for the generic function .." 2016-03-25T16:56:29Z kenanb: is there maybe a difference between a standard class and a standardized class? 2016-03-25T16:56:59Z kenanb: that actually makes that definition not imply that specializing on symbol problem 2016-03-25T16:57:08Z kenanb: ? 2016-03-25T16:57:26Z stassats: clhs glossary/standardized 2016-03-25T16:57:26Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_s.htm#standardized 2016-03-25T16:57:41Z stassats: clhs symbol 2016-03-25T16:57:41Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_symbol.htm 2016-03-25T16:57:45Z stassats: a class 2016-03-25T16:57:49Z stassats: no loop hole 2016-03-25T16:58:40Z stassats: a fixnum, though, might be fine, it's not a direct instance of INTEGER 2016-03-25T16:59:05Z stassats: i don't think they considered that though 2016-03-25T17:00:07Z stassats: though, since fixnum is not a class, there is no more subclasses of INTEGER, 1 must be a direct instance? 2016-03-25T17:02:06Z Bike: i guess what 1 is a direct instance of can be implementation defined, heh. 2016-03-25T17:02:30Z stassats: but it's about standardized classes 2016-03-25T17:02:38Z stassats: otherwise nothing can be considered 2016-03-25T17:03:03Z stassats: since the implementation can insert any number of subclasses, then the restriction wouldn't be enforceable 2016-03-25T17:03:11Z hydan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-25T17:03:39Z stassats: so, it's ambiguous, but it's what they meant 2016-03-25T17:04:51Z hydan joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T17:10:34Z kenanb: "Symbols have the following attributes. For historical reasons, these are sometimes referred to as cells, although the actual internal representation of symbols and their attributes is implementation-dependent." maybe that makes the actual class definition non-standardized even though the concept itself is standardized, on the other hand the title says "System Class SYMBOL" so it seems like there is not ambiguity there 2016-03-25T17:10:59Z stassats: no, it's pretty standardized 2016-03-25T17:13:12Z kenanb: anyway it doesn't really matter as long as the implementations interpret that in a way that makes the most sense in practice. 2016-03-25T17:14:02Z kenanb: it seems impractical to expect a 1300 page spec to resolve every single smallest ambiguity. 2016-03-25T17:15:09Z kenanb: thanks Bike stassats scymtym_ for the answers, and specbot for aiding us in the process :) 2016-03-25T17:16:14Z stassats: i think the problem is there was already a lot of existing implementations but nobody tried to implement from scratch following the standard precisely 2016-03-25T17:16:27Z stassats: well, it would have dragged for more years 2016-03-25T17:18:12Z kenanb: you mean if such an implementation process would occur, most ambiguities would reveal themselves clearly, yes? 2016-03-25T17:19:33Z stassats: a post standard clarification would be nice 2016-03-25T17:19:52Z stassats: but standards rarely remove anything, just add more cruft, c.f. c++ 2016-03-25T17:19:55Z kenanb: it would probably help greatly but IMHO there would still be many cases that the implementors thought they actually understood what is meant, but really didn't and went on with what they thought they understood. 2016-03-25T17:20:06Z kenanb: yes good point :) 2016-03-25T17:21:01Z stassats: and look what happened to python 3 2016-03-25T17:21:03Z stassats: there's no win 2016-03-25T17:21:43Z stassats: you need to get everything right from the outset, but that's either not possible or takes inordinate amount of time 2016-03-25T17:22:05Z kenanb: AFAIK it is actually getting even worse 2016-03-25T17:22:18Z kenanb: a new new python will do the same thing soon 2016-03-25T17:22:39Z stassats: the only python i care is the sbcl compiler 2016-03-25T17:23:25Z sea`` left #sbcl 2016-03-25T17:24:08Z kenanb: haha I wish I was that lucky, (tho I hesitate to call anyone who is dealing with analyzing CL types at that level lucky) but I do Blender scripting heavily in Python 2016-03-25T17:25:45Z kenanb: and I must say I actually like it, it is exactly like going to holiday, you are still working, but you don't really have much mental burder of thinking over your architecture and performance optimizations because there is almost no alternative architectures you can chase, and the latter practically doesn't exist :D 2016-03-25T17:30:55Z akkad quit (Quit: Emacs must have died) 2016-03-25T17:56:03Z slyrus joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T18:45:12Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-25T18:46:03Z edgar-rft joined #sbcl 2016-03-25T19:22:54Z jdz quit (Ping 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(let ((x (foo)) (declare (dynamic-extent x)) ...) implemented in SBCL? 2016-03-28T02:06:07Z drmeister: It seems to me that I can't know what (foo) will return until it does and so I don't know how much space to allocate on the stack until then. I'm not sure how I would anticipate what (foo) would return to know how much space to reserve on the stack to store to write the object into. 2016-03-28T02:11:45Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T02:16:24Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-28T02:42:05Z hydan joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T03:12:40Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T03:17:06Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-28T03:33:02Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-28T03:41:19Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T04:13:26Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T04:18:45Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-28T04:57:20Z mateuszb quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-28T05:14:12Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T05:18:52Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-03-28T05:42:45Z slyrus joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T06:14:57Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T06:19:15Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-28T06:31:25Z slyrus_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T06:32:33Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-03-28T06:33:11Z 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x86-64 2016-03-28T20:18:59Z stassats: doesn't it already? 2016-03-28T20:19:20Z jsnell_: yes, you added that a while ago 2016-03-28T20:19:41Z Fare git pull ... 2016-03-28T20:19:44Z stassats: that was Douglas, actually 2016-03-28T20:21:10Z Fare: I was looking at #+sb-assembling variant 2016-03-28T20:23:21Z Fare: looks like the #-sb-assembling variant uses popcnt 2016-03-28T20:24:03Z stassats: sb-assembling does not make it a "variant" 2016-03-28T20:26:15Z Fare: though it seems to be doing check for the instruction at runtime everytime, which might be wasteful. 2016-03-28T20:26:23Z Fare: what does sb-assembling do? 2016-03-28T20:26:32Z stassats: a build thingy 2016-03-28T20:26:52Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T20:26:53Z stassats: and there is no other way than doing a check 2016-03-28T20:33:59Z jsnell_: would it make sense to use fixups for things like this? 2016-03-28T20:34:26Z stassats: fixups would have to be extended 2016-03-28T20:34:45Z stassats: but overall, yeah, good idea 2016-03-28T20:34:58Z stassats: though, what about saved cores? 2016-03-28T20:35:32Z jsnell_: I thought there was a mechanism for doing core load-time fixups already, but I might be misremembering 2016-03-28T20:36:07Z stassats: if there is, i never encountered it 2016-03-28T20:38:45Z stassats: just noticed that TEST BYTE PTR [#x20200442], -128 is twice as slow as a load and compare 2016-03-28T20:39:48Z stassats: on haswell/broadwell 2016-03-28T20:44:05Z stassats: duh 2016-03-28T20:44:24Z stassats: it's a double dereference, i was invoking the non-popcnt version 2016-03-28T20:46:54Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-28T20:47:42Z stassats: but yeah, there is actually no speed up in using popcnt 2016-03-28T20:47:53Z stassats: in that way, that is 2016-03-28T20:50:33Z stassats: well, code size and instruction cache is a win 2016-03-28T20:51:00Z stassats: but always calling an assembly routine is even more of an code size win 2016-03-28T20:53:09Z stassats: ok, there is a slight performance win, i'm just messing up my testing 2016-03-28T21:06:38Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-28T21:12:31Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T21:36:15Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-28T21:37:21Z pobivan quit (Quit: pobivan) 2016-03-28T21:39:04Z stassats: jsnell_: there is indeed SB-C::DO-CORE-FIXUPS 2016-03-28T21:40:13Z mateuszb_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T21:41:44Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-28T21:42:17Z stassats: or maybe that's not it, but something is overwriting the sb-dynamic-core fixups 2016-03-28T21:43:17Z mateuszb quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-28T21:46:23Z stassats: ok, looks like things are done twice, update-linkage-table and os_link_runtime (but for stuff necessary to start up) 2016-03-28T21:47:27Z stassats: so, no, i don't think there are coreparse-time fixups 2016-03-28T21:49:26Z jsnell_: right-o. it'd need some major surgery then 2016-03-28T21:50:09Z stassats: not enough benefits 2016-03-28T21:50:43Z stassats: and it would mess up RIP-relative references 2016-03-28T21:51:34Z stassats: i'd rather prefer -march=native 2016-03-28T22:09:35Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-28T22:13:47Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-28T22:15:40Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T22:15:41Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T22:21:34Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-28T22:27:56Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T22:32:25Z Bicyclidine quit (Client Quit) 2016-03-28T22:48:31Z dougk_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T22:49:58Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T22:57:15Z edgar-rft joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T23:14:04Z fisxoj joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T23:18:24Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2016-03-28T23:23:19Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (Changing host) 2016-03-28T23:23:19Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T23:43:07Z andreh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-03-28T23:44:51Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-28T23:49:08Z Bike 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otherwise it's a CAS in a LOOP 2016-03-29T16:41:10Z pkhuong: locked xadd on a car. what's the worse that could happen? ;) 2016-03-29T16:41:53Z stassats: there are fast and safe variants 2016-03-29T16:42:03Z stassats: the safe variant is a loop with a CMPXCHG 2016-03-29T16:42:41Z stassats: and i don't want things to overflow either 2016-03-29T16:43:13Z stassats: comparing that the value does not decrease can work, but i can imagine it getting larger while it loops 2016-03-29T16:43:41Z pkhuong: xadd gives you the old value. you can check after the fact. 2016-03-29T16:44:08Z pkhuong: and you can check before CASing. 2016-03-29T16:44:39Z stassats: suppose i'm not going to use the xadd variant (i'm not really eager to put (safety 0) into my code) 2016-03-29T16:45:25Z stassats: ok, does atomic-incf give me the old value, if it does, then i guess i'm good 2016-03-29T16:45:47Z pkhuong: the docstring says it does. 2016-03-29T16:46:43Z stassats: but if i crash when it overflows, the next thread is not going to crash and can do bad stuff 2016-03-29T16:47:05Z pkhuong: if you're going to use the safe variant, you might as well write your own CAS loop 2016-03-29T16:47:12Z pkhuong: and do all the checks you need there. 2016-03-29T16:47:21Z stassats: i guess i can just do a lock 2016-03-29T16:48:19Z slyrus joined #sbcl 2016-03-29T16:56:21Z stassats: not sure what's going to be cheaper, a CAS loop or a lock, there shouldn't be too much contention 2016-03-29T16:57:37Z stassats: but if i check for #xFFFF before the atomic-incf, then nothing will overflow the stored value 2016-03-29T16:57:43Z stassats: ok then 2016-03-29T16:59:55Z stassats: but i can't use sb-ext:atomic-incf, right 2016-03-29T17:03:03Z abbe_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-29T17:03:33Z kanru quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-29T17:04:04Z jackc-_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-29T17:05:23Z Cthulhux joined #sbcl 2016-03-29T17:05:40Z fitzsim` joined #sbcl 2016-03-29T17:06:39Z fiddlerwoaroof_ joined #sbcl 2016-03-29T17:06:44Z flip214_ 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line, ie. the generating function? 2016-03-29T17:11:57Z stassats: why would you want that? 2016-03-29T17:12:00Z flip214_: is there something that looks like (sb-*:source-line (symbol-function 'fn) #1) with #1 being a macro form? 2016-03-29T17:12:26Z flip214_: so that, when I get an error in that generated form, looking up the source would jump to the function that built the source 2016-03-29T17:12:44Z flip214_: instead of saying "No source line information" 2016-03-29T17:13:01Z stassats: right now it'll jump where the macro was used, you can go to your function from there 2016-03-29T17:14:05Z flip214_: well, what's the way to "fake" a source origin? 2016-03-29T17:15:25Z stassats: i won't tell you 2016-03-29T17:15:29Z flip214_: thanks 2016-03-29T17:15:51Z flip214_: if you don't let people shoot themselves in the foot, it'll just take longer for them to find a long-enough rope ;) 2016-03-29T17:23:21Z pkhuong: stassats: without contention, *one* CAS will probably be slightly faster than a lock. 2016-03-29T17:24:24Z drmeister joined #sbcl 2016-03-29T17:26:06Z stassats: went with a CAS for now, performance shouldn't really matter here though 2016-03-29T17:29:04Z Cthulhux quit (Changing host) 2016-03-29T17:29:05Z Cthulhux joined #sbcl 2016-03-29T17:32:33Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-03-29T17:44:07Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-29T18:59:45Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-03-29T19:00:06Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-29T19:14:44Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-03-29T19:16:41Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-29T19:22:38Z slyrus joined #sbcl 2016-03-29T19:28:07Z jasom: flip214_: if it says "no source line information" the debug optimization setting was probably too low 2016-03-29T19:28:27Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-29T19:28:27Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2016-03-29T19:28:27Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-29T19:35:47Z fisxoj quit (Quit: fisxoj) 2016-03-29T19:37:40Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 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2016-03-30T05:11:12Z pobivan joined #sbcl 2016-03-30T05:14:36Z fisxoj quit (Quit: fisxoj) 2016-03-30T05:28:52Z jasom: flip214_: there are a lot of issues with that... 2016-03-30T05:29:41Z jasom: flip214_: firstly ASDF won't recompile anything that's already compiled. Secondly, any code loaded with an optimization declaim will override that. 2016-03-30T05:30:40Z flip214_: jasom: I'm aware of that, thanks anyway! 2016-03-30T05:31:37Z jasom: If you delete everything from ~/.cache/common-lisp and then do "(sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 3)" you'll get something more debuggable 2016-03-30T05:45:39Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-03-30T05:46:56Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-30T06:15:55Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-30T06:17:49Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-30T06:24:51Z flip214_: that would interfere with some of the declarations in eg. cl-ppcre, but yes, I've got such a line (with #+nil) in my sbclrc, too ;) 2016-03-30T06:24:54Z flip214_: thanks all the same! 2016-03-30T06:36:16Z gingerale joined #sbcl 2016-03-30T06:37:10Z Shinmera joined #sbcl 2016-03-30T06:44:24Z flip214_ is now known as flip214 2016-03-30T06:44:27Z flip214 quit (Changing host) 2016-03-30T06:44:27Z flip214 joined #sbcl 2016-03-30T07:23:27Z 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that regression, maybe they won't 2016-03-31T10:43:46Z stassats: no idea 2016-03-31T10:44:14Z Xof: there is a patch 2016-03-31T10:44:22Z Xof: I'll apply it after I get the release sorted 2016-03-31T10:58:42Z stassats: windows and arm64 binaries are up as well 2016-03-31T11:21:12Z evilburp joined #sbcl 2016-03-31T11:21:48Z pkhuong quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-03-31T11:22:40Z mordocai quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-31T11:22:53Z drewc quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-31T11:23:28Z drewc joined #sbcl 2016-03-31T11:23:57Z mordocai joined #sbcl 2016-03-31T11:26:11Z DeadTrickster quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-03-31T11:34:01Z sjl joined #sbcl 2016-03-31T12:24:38Z Xof: well, the patch lets the manual build but completely ruins the index 2016-03-31T12:43:37Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-31T13:15:09Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-03-31T13:26:21Z fisxoj joined #sbcl 2016-03-31T13:32:36Z attila_lendvai joined #sbcl 2016-03-31T13:32:36Z attila_lendvai quit 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using MAP_FIXED was pretty silly, and that explains the failures i saw on arm64 2016-03-31T15:40:04Z evilburp quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-31T15:57:43Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2016-03-31T16:05:30Z Bicyclidine joined #sbcl 2016-03-31T16:13:02Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-31T16:13:23Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-31T16:14:45Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-31T16:16:10Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-31T16:17:15Z andreh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-03-31T16:17:48Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-31T16:21:08Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-31T16:26:51Z andreh joined #sbcl 2016-03-31T16:37:27Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-03-31T16:50:53Z gingerale joined #sbcl 2016-03-31T16:51:13Z andreh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-03-31T17:04:08Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-03-31T17:08:19Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 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