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2015-06-01T11:43:49Z flip214: Here's a solution for per-thread data on linux ARM that doesn't need a register: http://daurnimator.com/post/120415954844/linux-fork-detection-using-thread-specific
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2015-06-01T11:44:42Z flip214: But I guess that would be a bit slow... better to lookup the stack pointer in some sorted array or similar.
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2015-06-01T12:13:47Z stassats: there's already a system register, the kernel doesn't maintain it during context switches
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2015-06-01T12:51:45Z pkhuong_: stassats: is it maintained per core/process?
2015-06-01T12:52:47Z flip214: stassats: but wouldn't that say that *any* pthread-using binary would crash?
2015-06-01T12:54:41Z pkhuong_: flip214: or that glibc doesn't use that register on arm.
2015-06-01T12:56:32Z flip214: pkhuong_: yeah, but the pthread binaries will have to use *some* register, don't they?
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2015-06-01T13:40:56Z kami: Hello
2015-06-01T13:41:04Z oleo: hello kami
2015-06-01T13:41:13Z kami: Is it possible to bootstrap sbcl with uclib?
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2015-06-01T13:42:21Z kami: I would like to run it on openwrt x86-64 which uses uclibc 0.9.33 as it c library.
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2015-06-01T13:57:13Z nyef: Don't know. What's your opportunity cost for just trying it?
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2015-06-01T14:40:29Z kami: nyef: :) Will try and report back.
2015-06-01T14:42:58Z stassats: pkhuong_: i don't remember the details, it's not used by the kernel, but not preserved across threads or something like that
2015-06-01T14:43:35Z stassats: pthreads use another register of the same category
2015-06-01T14:44:07Z stassats: but this all so veiled in secrets and mystery
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2015-06-01T15:14:17Z oleo: did someone fix that wait on semaphore error ?
2015-06-01T15:15:15Z oleo: well, that stuff with safepoints seems to not work.....
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2015-06-01T15:16:46Z oleo: the only package failing with it is slime tho......
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2015-06-01T16:20:17Z kami: nyef: to try uclibc, I need an implementation which builds with uclibc. Can ecl bootstrap sbcl?
2015-06-01T16:20:37Z nyef: Can you not cross-compile?
2015-06-01T16:21:55Z kami: Didn't know that I have that option. Where can I read about it?
2015-06-01T16:22:37Z nyef: Hrm. The instructions in make.sh are outdated.
2015-06-01T16:24:02Z nyef: You basically run make-config.sh on the target, passing in an --xc-host= parameter suitable for the host, then copy everything over to your host and run make-host-1.sh. Then you bounce back and forth between target and host to run target-1, host-2, target-2, and target-contrib.
2015-06-01T16:24:20Z Xof: it's better than that these days
2015-06-01T16:24:31Z nyef: I think that there might be some relatively new magic for running things in the right place auto... Yeah, Xof would know.
2015-06-01T16:25:36Z Xof: checking
2015-06-01T16:27:10Z Xof: on the target, run sh ./make-config.sh --xc-host='host lisp' --host-location=<rsync path to host sbcl directory>
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2015-06-01T16:28:01Z Xof: then the various steps ( sh ./make-host-1.sh ; sh ./make-target-1.sh ; sh ./make-host-2.sh ; sh ./make-target-2.sh ; sh ./make-target-contrib.sh ) arrange for copying of necessary files between host and target
2015-06-01T16:31:57Z kami: Xof: thank you. Will try that later.
2015-06-01T16:32:09Z kami: bye
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2015-06-01T20:28:29Z stassats: added the rdrand instruction
2015-06-01T20:28:54Z stassats: with disassembly and all, turned out, another instruction's printer was wrongly defined
2015-06-01T20:29:12Z stassats: just showing how easy it is
2015-06-01T20:29:24Z stassats: especially with cisc
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2015-06-01T23:50:49Z stassats: it would be fun to change random things in the compiler and see if any tests fail
2015-06-01T23:51:05Z stassats: random testing of tests
2015-06-01T23:52:07Z nyef: A known technique for verifying test coverage.
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2015-06-02T05:53:52Z kami: Good morning.
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2015-06-02T17:43:23Z stassats: apparently i can't have gcc which produces both 64-bit and 32-bit code for ARM debian
2015-06-02T17:44:31Z nyef: No multilib gcc?
2015-06-02T17:44:41Z stassats: apparently not
2015-06-02T17:44:46Z nyef: Bummer.
2015-06-02T17:44:53Z stassats: and i can't install different arches at the same time
2015-06-02T17:45:03Z nyef: chroot?
2015-06-02T17:45:11Z stassats: this is already a chroot
2015-06-02T17:45:35Z nyef: So?
2015-06-02T17:45:47Z stassats: dealing with three chroots is stupid
2015-06-02T17:48:08Z stassats: looks like https://wiki.debian.org/BuildingCrossCompilers is what i need
2015-06-02T17:50:29Z stassats: bah, cross-gcc-dev is stupid
2015-06-02T17:50:39Z stassats: doesn't depend on things it needs, proceeds when it gets errors anyway
2015-06-02T17:55:37Z stassats: and then the same problem with gdb
2015-06-02T17:57:54Z stassats: i guess i'll have to make a second chroot
2015-06-02T17:58:03Z stassats: and a third, if i want armel packages
2015-06-02T17:59:47Z stassats: ok, there's gdb-multiarch
2015-06-02T17:59:54Z stassats: and it has to be launched as gdb-multiarch
2015-06-02T18:04:19Z stassats: huh bash : PreDepends: dash
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2015-06-02T18:55:40Z stassats: gcc-4.9-arm-linux-gnueabihf is only present for amd64 and i386
2015-06-02T18:58:59Z stassats: ok, i upgraded to sid, now i can install arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc-5
2015-06-02T18:59:09Z stassats: alongside the normal gcc
2015-06-02T18:59:54Z stassats: that took too much time to figure out
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2015-06-02T19:27:26Z stassats: setting up arm64 things
2015-06-02T19:44:05Z stassats: why the hell is assembly syntax always different?
2015-06-02T19:54:54Z stassats: the comment syntax is // instead of @@ now
2015-06-02T20:00:29Z nyef: Isn't // stripped out by CPP ?
2015-06-02T20:01:08Z nyef: 5
2015-06-02T20:01:12Z nyef: Oops. Wrong window.
2015-06-02T20:01:25Z nyef: (My next line would have been "bootp():".)
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2015-06-02T20:09:05Z stassats: okay, i guess that's the time to make a first commit
2015-06-02T20:09:12Z stassats: before i actually start changing code
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2015-06-02T21:08:21Z stassats: lack of conditionals is making things more complicated
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2015-06-02T22:31:08Z stassats: arm64 has 9-bit offsets, not 12
2015-06-02T22:31:16Z stassats: problematic for static symbols
2015-06-02T22:32:08Z stassats: ok, i had enough fun for today
2015-06-02T22:32:28Z nyef: Heh. The price you pay for extra registers?
2015-06-02T22:35:54Z stassats: yeah, at least now you have extra registers
2015-06-02T22:36:29Z stassats: i guess we should make one always temporary registry, like that r-number-i-forgot on x86-64
2015-06-02T22:36:43Z stassats: was it 14 or 13 or 12?
2015-06-02T22:36:50Z nyef: Can you "just" abuse the LIP register?
2015-06-02T22:37:42Z stassats: to abuse it, i need to know what it's used for in the first place
2015-06-02T22:38:23Z stassats: and it's neither, it's r11
2015-06-02T22:39:31Z stassats:  if by LIP you mean LRA, which is supposed to be pointing into the current code object, then maybe
2015-06-02T22:39:58Z stassats: but what happens when PC is in assembly routines?
2015-06-02T22:40:48Z stassats: but there's plenty of registers to go around for now, can optimize things later
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2015-06-03T04:56:38Z loke: I have been trying to figure out the following:
2015-06-03T04:56:46Z loke: Given the following function:
2015-06-03T04:56:52Z loke: (defun foo (x)
2015-06-03T04:56:52Z loke:         (declare (optimize (speed 2) (debug 0)))
2015-06-03T04:56:52Z loke:         (aref (concatenate 'string "a" "qrsaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa") x))
2015-06-03T04:57:24Z loke: The disassembly shows a long list of MOV EDX,97; MOV [RCX+nn],EDX pairs
2015-06-03T04:57:37Z loke: One pair per character in the string
2015-06-03T04:57:53Z loke: Where did that come from? If I change the optimisation lever from 2, the behaviour disappears
2015-06-03T05:00:55Z Bike: Guess it's making the string.
2015-06-03T05:01:40Z Bike: i still get it on speed 3.
2015-06-03T05:06:13Z loke: It's really bizarre
2015-06-03T05:06:19Z Bike: why?
2015-06-03T05:06:41Z loke: Because on SPEED 0 it simply calls concatenate on two strings
2015-06-03T05:07:02Z loke: on SPEED 3, it doesn't do anything. It just concatenates it during compilation
2015-06-03T05:07:23Z loke: but on SPEED 2, it builds the string characer-by-character hardcoded?
2015-06-03T05:07:37Z Bike: on speed 3 i'm seeing it do that too
2015-06-03T05:08:00Z Bike: my guess would be that it's because concatenate is supposed to make a fresh string, and on speed 3 sbcl doesn't do enough analysis to determine you don't need it fresh
2015-06-03T05:08:09Z loke: You're right. But with a different string I didn't
2015-06-03T05:12:08Z loke: I was sure I got it to be fully inlined with SPEED 3, but I can't seem to do it again
2015-06-03T05:13:47Z stassats: the string is allocated alright
2015-06-03T05:13:51Z stassats: it's just open-coded is all
2015-06-03T05:14:30Z loke: stassats: So I assume that Bike's assumption is correct? It never figures out that the string is never modifed so it's allocated afresh?
2015-06-03T05:14:46Z stassats: sbcl doesn't have such a concept at all
2015-06-03T05:16:26Z loke: So when I use (concatenate 'string "foo" "bar" ...) to nicely format a string in multiple lines, I should use use #. before it if the code is performance critical, then?
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2015-06-03T05:59:13Z stassats: discovered that the transform wasn't working as intended for (concatenate 'string "abc")
2015-06-03T06:06:28Z stassats: and sometimes the result of a VOP is not used but it's still computed
2015-06-03T06:07:19Z stassats: avoiding that would allow MOV ECX, 97  MOV [RAX+1], ECX to become MOV [RAX+1], 97
2015-06-03T06:15:26Z stassats: well, i have an ugly hack with calling tn-reads in a vop
2015-06-03T06:16:56Z stassats: and on x86-64 characters could be initialized in pairs
2015-06-03T06:20:41Z stassats: simple copy-seq is actually fast for large enough strings
2015-06-03T06:20:51Z stassats: s/actually/equally/
2015-06-03T06:23:33Z flip214: loke: for purely constant arguments CONCATENATE might figure out that the result is constant, too...
2015-06-03T06:23:51Z flip214: although it would still have to return a freshly allocated copy, in case you're modifying the string.
2015-06-03T06:33:56Z stassats: loke: i would certainly prefer (defmacro lots-of-strings (&rest strings) `(the simple-string (load-time-value (concatenate 'strin ,@strings) t)))
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2015-06-03T06:35:03Z kami: Good morning.
2015-06-03T06:36:15Z kami: Xof: I tried --host-location, worked like a charm. Where can I submit a patch with some lines of usage info in make-configs.sh and some comments in make.sh?
2015-06-03T06:36:39Z flip214: kami: I guess a github pull request would be the easiest way to go.
2015-06-03T06:36:44Z stassats: no
2015-06-03T06:36:52Z stassats: sbcl doesn't use github
2015-06-03T06:37:37Z kami: stassats: patch the diff to sbcl-devel?
2015-06-03T06:37:52Z kami: s/patch/mail/
2015-06-03T06:38:24Z stassats: http://sbcl.org/ seems to have that covered
2015-06-03T06:39:03Z kami: stassats: you mean 'launchpad'?
2015-06-03T06:39:52Z stassats: i don't know what i mean
2015-06-03T06:40:11Z stassats: if that information is not enough on its own then it needs to be changed
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2015-06-03T06:43:11Z kami: stassats: on the rare occasions that I have exchanged a few word with you on IRC, I always found it very difficult to communicate with you
2015-06-03T06:43:31Z stassats: thanks
2015-06-03T06:43:37Z kami: It is probably because I'm no native speaker of English and cannot interpret things always correctly.
2015-06-03T06:44:33Z kami: I asked a simple question, if you know the answer, then point me to it. I would accept that even with a sarcastic remark or such.
2015-06-03T06:44:48Z flip214: stassats: well, https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl is found easily, but after 5 clicks on sbcl.org I still don't see a link to the git repository.
2015-06-03T06:44:56Z stassats: kami: you get what you get, no refunds
2015-06-03T06:45:19Z stassats: flip214: sbcl.org => Download
2015-06-03T06:45:26Z stassats: the first three lines
2015-06-03T06:45:57Z kami: stassats: I have indeed received very good hints from you on #lisp and I use SBCL and see your contributions, so I am grateful
2015-06-03T06:46:20Z flip214: stassats: yeah, but no gitweb?
2015-06-03T06:46:38Z kami: stassats: that doesn't tell me how to contribute
2015-06-03T06:47:02Z flip214: and, in a purely private thought, perhaps sf isn't that great a place anymore...    just saying.
2015-06-03T06:47:14Z stassats: flip214: find a link for the sf's gitweb i'll put it there
2015-06-03T06:47:28Z stassats: i'm not venturing to deal with sf
2015-06-03T06:47:36Z kami: stassats: the closest thing to what you 'mean' might be 'Reporting Bugs'
2015-06-03T06:49:15Z flip214: stassats: http://sourceforge.net/p/sbcl/sbcl/ci/master/tree/   (but that's missing the point ....)
2015-06-03T06:55:29Z stassats: flip214: done
2015-06-03T06:56:26Z kami: I added this https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1461411
2015-06-03T06:56:34Z kami: the patch is attached
2015-06-03T06:56:51Z kami: stassats: you get what you get, no refunds
2015-06-03T06:58:19Z stassats: i've heard that before
2015-06-03T06:58:22Z kami: minion: memo for Xof: thank you for the --host-location hint. I added a patch with what I /think/ is the correct doc at https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1461411
2015-06-03T06:58:22Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell Xof when he/she/it next speaks.
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2015-06-03T07:03:02Z Xof: minion: forget my memos
2015-06-03T07:03:02Z minion: OK, I threw it out.
2015-06-03T07:03:06Z Xof: thanks, kami
2015-06-03T07:05:16Z kami: Xof: do you think anybody will be interested whether building with uclibc works or not? And if yes, where should I put the info?
2015-06-03T07:06:25Z kami: building succeeds, sb-bsd-sockets fails with sb-bsd-sockets-test::get-protocol-by-name/error
2015-06-03T07:09:54Z Xof: if it just builds, maybe not so interesting
2015-06-03T07:09:59Z Xof: if you can patch it so that it actually mostly works...
2015-06-03T07:11:19Z kami: will try
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2015-06-03T14:59:01Z mlybdnm: Hello. http://paste.lisp.org/display/149076 <- Is there a way to silence the warning? Probably using some flet/macro mindfuck or something? The warning is "note: doing float to pointer coercion (cost 13) to "<return value>"". Possibly without removing the declarations.
2015-06-03T15:00:14Z stassats`: don't use speed 3?
2015-06-03T15:00:49Z stassats`: when you inline it, there will be no note, and the declarations at the inlining site will be used
2015-06-03T15:09:13Z nyef: Yeah, that's not a warning. Nor is it a style warning. It's a note, which is more informing you that the compiler thinks that it could do better under certain circumstances.
2015-06-03T15:10:17Z mlybdnm: nyef: Is there anything you suggest?
2015-06-03T15:10:29Z nyef: Ignore it?
2015-06-03T15:11:04Z mlybdnm: I see.
2015-06-03T15:11:38Z stassats`: do what i suggested?
2015-06-03T15:11:40Z nyef: If you inline the function then it won't have any effect at the call sites, only for full calls such as by way of FUNCALL of a variable and the like.
2015-06-03T15:11:43Z nyef: Or that.
2015-06-03T15:32:13Z stassats`: asm-mode is terrible
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2015-06-03T15:45:12Z didi: Giving the last SourceForge news, is SBCL considering moving from SourceForge?
2015-06-03T15:45:15Z didi: Given*
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2015-06-03T16:07:37Z Xof: mlybdnm: you can also muffle compiler-note conditions
2015-06-03T16:07:41Z Xof: there's even documentation about it
2015-06-03T16:07:57Z Xof: http://www.sbcl.org/1.0/manual/Controlling-Verbosity.html
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2015-06-03T16:22:50Z clop: hi, i'm surprised that this causes a type-error:
2015-06-03T16:23:16Z clop: (BYTE 32 36893488147419103232)
2015-06-03T16:23:53Z clop: this is on SBCL 1.2.11.70-53fc0ef which may not be super current, i will upgrade
2015-06-03T16:26:35Z clop: interestingly, it works fine if i put it in a function, like (my-byte 32 36893488147419103232), where (my-byte size pos) = (byte size pos)
2015-06-03T16:26:44Z clop: but fails at the top-level loop with The value 36893488147419103232 is not of type (MOD 4611686018427387841).
2015-06-03T16:27:16Z Bike: byte is declared to return a (cons (unsigned-byte 62) (unsigned-byte 62)), and there's a source transform to make byte calls into cons calls
2015-06-03T16:27:36Z Bike: so during a compile that probably applies, and you get a general cons with no type restrictions
2015-06-03T16:28:00Z Bike: er, it's declared to take (unsigned-byte 62)s, rather.
2015-06-03T16:33:07Z nyef: That's... Not actually conforming.
2015-06-03T16:33:12Z clop: is that an ok representation?  the hyperspec just says that size/position are non-negative integers...
2015-06-03T16:33:37Z Bike: yeah, i think that's a bug?
2015-06-03T16:33:53Z Bike: i don't know where the declaration is, though, it's not in M-. I'm just going off describe
2015-06-03T16:33:54Z nyef: Yeah, exactly. That looks like the top-side of the fixnum range...
2015-06-03T16:34:12Z nyef: See if it's in SYS:SRC;COMPILER;FNDB.LISP as a DEFKNOWN?
2015-06-03T16:34:42Z Bike: ah, it is.
2015-06-03T16:34:49Z Bike: good news, there's already a FIXME comment about this
2015-06-03T16:34:53Z nyef: Heh! And there's a FIXME there about this, too. (-:
2015-06-03T16:35:31Z nyef: I can't imagine that this wouldn't exceed the bounds of most-positive-bignum, though.
2015-06-03T16:35:36Z Bike: so do ldb etc actually work on bignums with that many bits? (how often does that... yeah)
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2015-06-03T16:42:17Z Bike: clop: i have to ask, are you actually working with integers that large?
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2015-06-03T16:51:57Z clop: well, that position is over 2^64, so it surely isn't possible to create a bignum that large; it would take more bits to represent than any memory could possibly support
2015-06-03T16:53:47Z clop: so trying to deposit something into it is probably nonsensical, you might as well try to do something like (ash 1 36893488147419103232)
2015-06-03T16:53:59Z Bike: so how did this come up?
2015-06-03T16:54:16Z clop: on the other hand it should be perfectly legal to do things like
2015-06-03T16:54:23Z clop: (logbitp 36893488147419103232 -1)
2015-06-03T16:54:55Z clop: and since (byte ...) can be used in operations like ldb, which are more like logbitp than ash, it probably ought to work
2015-06-03T16:56:01Z clop: this just came up when we were writing some testing code; we were trying to develop an optimized way to extract pieces from bignums, without creating more bignums...
2015-06-03T16:56:30Z clop: ldb is probably the most sane way to do that, but it doesn't work well on CCL because (it seems) CCL uses bitmasks instead of conses to represent (byte ...)
2015-06-03T16:57:42Z clop: so we developed some alternative, optimized ccl implementation; then when we ran our test code on sbcl it ran into this
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2015-06-03T19:03:19Z stassats`: protip, now you don't need to look in fndb.lisp, just do M-.
2015-06-03T19:18:53Z stassats`: got up to make-host-2.sh
2015-06-03T19:19:02Z stassats`: now that's where the real fun begins
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2015-06-03T19:31:30Z stassats`: so, how do i build a core with just one function?
2015-06-03T19:33:20Z stassats`: i guess by having a different build-order.lisp-expr for make-host-2.sh and some genesis hacks?
2015-06-03T19:33:57Z nyef: Yup!
2015-06-03T19:34:22Z nyef: Have a look at the early days of the ARM port, the "arm-bootstrap.lisp" or similar.
2015-06-03T19:35:09Z nyef: Or, even further back, you could try to dig up my old SBCL-os hack. (-:
2015-06-03T19:37:20Z stassats`: so, vop assembly: no pc, no rsb, no load/store multiple, limited LS offsets
2015-06-03T19:37:35Z stassats`: machine code: everything is different
2015-06-03T19:37:54Z stassats`: got arm64-assem.S into a 64ish state
2015-06-03T19:40:15Z nyef: Completely new backend, rather than trying to bodge it onto the existing ARM backend?
2015-06-03T19:41:15Z stassats`: vops are mostly good
2015-06-03T19:41:24Z nyef: Well, that's good, at least.
2015-06-03T19:43:56Z stassats`: and i think insts.lisp can be written in a more regular way
2015-06-03T19:44:06Z stassats`: but i need to grok the whole encoding space first
2015-06-03T19:48:03Z stassats`: and it finaly has S/UDIV
2015-06-03T19:49:55Z stassats`: oh, and no conditional execution anymore
2015-06-03T19:52:37Z nyef: Heh. Have fun with defaulting your return values from a full call. d-:
2015-06-03T19:53:01Z nyef: The ARM version of that was awesome, simply BECAUSE of the predicated operations.
2015-06-03T19:54:01Z stassats`: i already dealt with that in arm64-assem.S
2015-06-03T19:54:19Z stassats`: now there's cbnz/cbz, conditional branch if zero/non-zero
2015-06-03T19:54:21Z stassats`: that helps
2015-06-03T19:54:28Z nyef: I'm more thinking of SYS:SRC;COMPILER;ARM;CALL.LISP.
2015-06-03T19:54:38Z stassats`: also there's conditional comparison, for a set of comparisons
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2015-06-03T20:08:44Z mlybdnm: 21:35 < nyef> Or, even further back, you could try to dig up my old SBCL-os  hack. (-:
2015-06-03T20:08:52Z mlybdnm: Would you tell me more about that?
2015-06-03T20:11:31Z nyef: mlybdnm: http://lisphacker.com/projects/sbcl-os/how-it-works-2008-04-19.txt
2015-06-03T20:11:38Z stassats`: and mov now can have 16-bit immediates
2015-06-03T20:11:48Z nyef: mlybdnm: http://lisphacker.com/projects/sbcl-os/wip-screenshots/primitive-halt.png
2015-06-03T20:11:56Z mlybdnm: nyef: Thank you.
2015-06-03T20:13:19Z stassats`: looked through the opcode tables, everything looks straightforward
2015-06-03T20:13:38Z nyef: mlybdnm: Basically, I had a severely-hacked SBCL tree that spit out a "cold-sbcl.core" that I stuck into a hard disk image. I then had a Forth system that would get the system into protected-mode, set up paging, read and map parts of the core file into memory, and do just enough setup to start running a Lisp function in ring 0.
2015-06-03T20:16:18Z mlybdnm: nyef: This sounds interesting. Do any of you have a modern Lisp Machine running SBCL? :P
2015-06-03T20:18:01Z nyef: I didn't really get any further than that screenshot. It was handling interrupts, could page stuff up from disk, and do some amount of task switching, but was very, very early-stage. No memory allocation, let alone GC, for example.
2015-06-03T20:18:47Z nyef: If you want a LispOS, check out Mezzano, I think it was.
2015-06-03T20:32:50Z stassats`: time to make a mobile OS out of it
2015-06-03T20:32:50Z stassats`: out of sbcl-os
2015-06-03T20:32:50Z stassats`: since that's seem to be in vogue now
2015-06-03T20:33:07Z nyef: Heh.
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2015-06-03T22:44:59Z mlybdnm: http://paste.lisp.org/display/149110 <- How do I silence the type uncertainty note?
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2015-06-03T22:47:39Z Bike: what note? and why worry about notes?
2015-06-03T22:48:28Z mlybdnm: Because I guess I am missing some type declaration or something I am not aware of. If I remove the (the double-float ) before sqrt, then I get more notes.
2015-06-03T22:49:19Z jsnell_: why are you allowing the parameters to be nil?
2015-06-03T22:49:37Z Bike: if you declare cp and z as double floats it'll probably infer the sqrt result to be double float.
2015-06-03T22:49:52Z mlybdnm: jsnell_: I fixed that.
2015-06-03T22:50:06Z Bike: minor thing, if i'm not mistaken, (/ 1d0 foo) is just (/ foo)
2015-06-03T22:51:14Z pkhuong: sqrt of negative numbers is complex.
2015-06-03T22:53:03Z Bike: ooh, yes
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2015-06-03T23:26:27Z skrue: is there a good and reliable tree-shaker for sbcl that i can use without understanding how it works?
2015-06-03T23:37:12Z akkad: stassats`: yeah, because readline is too hard, but multitouch is easy? re: sbcl-os
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2015-06-04T00:53:09Z pkhuong: skrue: nope.
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2015-06-04T01:48:08Z dougk_: Does anyone remember if there's a bug open about the rare poor interaction between type derivation and dead block elimination where it *knows* that X can't be a FOO, but it goes down both halves of an IF that branches on FOO-P, and in one side of the IF there's clearly an operation that is illegal on a FOO, so it thinks that is reachable, but it isn't?
2015-06-04T01:48:26Z dougk_: it doesn't produce bad code, just a false warning
2015-06-04T01:50:26Z nyef: dougk_: How far back are you thinking? Because before the DCE pass went in, it was possible to construct dead code that the compiler couldn't eliminate.
2015-06-04T01:51:06Z dougk_: so I think it *did* eliminate the code eventually, it pre-dated the DCE stuff for sure.
2015-06-04T01:51:38Z dougk_: It leads to the "this is not a FOO" warning where *you* know it's wrong, but it think it knows it's right. But then eventually kills the block
2015-06-04T01:52:03Z nyef: Hrm. Not ringing a bell, I'm afraid.
2015-06-04T01:53:11Z dougk_: I think Paul was the one who responded on the list when I posed the example. I'll have to search
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2015-06-04T02:34:38Z pkhuong: I semi closed it
2015-06-04T02:34:49Z pkhuong: because we try to detect that case and signal a style warning instead
2015-06-04T02:35:05Z dougk_: I think it might have been thinking of a different issue, and it still happens.
2015-06-04T02:35:22Z dougk_: It's in an email with the title "&rest to &more conversion thinks that it knows more than it should"
2015-06-04T02:35:33Z pkhuong: oh, that rings a bell
2015-06-04T02:35:52Z dougk_: the gist of it is that we don't usually warn just because everything that _could_ be wrong. (absurd!)
2015-06-04T02:36:14Z dougk_: But in (defun thing1 (&rest args) (if (search "xyz" (namestring (first args))) ...)) it warns
2015-06-04T02:37:02Z dougk_: but the simpler (lambda (x) (search "xyz" (namestring x))) doesn't, and it's equally possible for x to be wrong.
2015-06-04T02:37:34Z pkhuong: really not sure that flowing casts through IFs is a good idea
2015-06-04T02:40:27Z pkhuong: DCE and constraint propagation should be in the same pass, and we could then delay warning on casts until after that pass.
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2015-06-04T07:57:58Z kami: Good morning.
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2015-06-04T16:29:50Z Fare: I'm a bit worried about sbcl declaring as unreachable something I believe should be reachable...
2015-06-04T16:30:46Z nyef: What've you got?
2015-06-04T16:31:53Z nyef: (The possibilities are two: Either you're right, and it should be reachable, or SBCL is right, and it isn't.)
2015-06-04T16:39:28Z Fare: indeed. Now trying to run the code under two sbcl's...
2015-06-04T16:41:04Z nyef: Ah, right. Which SBCL versions are you working with?
2015-06-04T16:41:25Z nyef: Because there was that one botch-job with array subtypep a while back...
2015-06-04T16:51:44Z Fare: or more likely, I didn't read understand behavior of peek-char correctly :-/
2015-06-04T16:54:15Z nyef: So... SBCL was right this time?
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2015-06-04T18:07:52Z Fare: yes, it was right. Thanks!
2015-06-04T18:29:07Z stassats: huh, now it says  Repeated OPTIMIZE quality. Using (DEBUG 2) everywhere
2015-06-04T18:32:17Z stassats: there are already is a FIXME
2015-06-04T18:32:23Z stassats: doesn't make it any less annoying
2015-06-04T18:32:39Z |3b| wondered about that too, wasn't sure if it was my local hacks or not
2015-06-04T18:33:49Z dougk_: I'll fix it
2015-06-04T18:35:06Z stassats: ok, cool
2015-06-04T18:35:08Z stassats stops digging
2015-06-04T18:36:19Z stassats: ADVISE-if-repeated-optimize-qualities is a strange name
2015-06-04T18:36:27Z stassats: why not WARN?
2015-06-04T18:36:34Z dougk_: sgtm
2015-06-04T18:37:21Z stassats: something like warn-repeated-optimize-qualities
2015-06-04T18:37:23Z dougk_: should it be 'style-warn-if-..' or is that just pedantic?
2015-06-04T18:37:32Z dougk_: (the word "style")
2015-06-04T18:37:56Z stassats: it's not a public api, so, no need to be pedantic
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2015-06-04T19:04:52Z stassats: Xach: can't you use checksums instead of https for quicklisp?
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2015-06-04T19:05:22Z stassats: Xach: embedding a sha256 implementation should be trivial
2015-06-04T19:06:40Z DeadTrickster: I'm sorry but what is wrong this https on sbcl?
2015-06-04T19:07:21Z Shinmera: What?
2015-06-04T19:08:22Z |3b| assumes you would want signatures to replace https, not just a hash
2015-06-04T19:09:12Z stassats: |3b|: not easy to do in self-contained quicklisp.lisp file
2015-06-04T19:09:30Z DeadTrickster: Shinmera, why Xach can't use https?
2015-06-04T19:09:52Z |3b|: DeadTrickster: need an implementation to use
2015-06-04T19:09:55Z Shinmera: DeadTrickster: because he needs to be implementation independent.
2015-06-04T19:10:22Z DeadTrickster: drakma won't work?
2015-06-04T19:10:40Z DeadTrickster: and cl+ssl
2015-06-04T19:10:46Z Shinmera: And how do you ship that?
2015-06-04T19:10:50Z |3b|: not if you are using quicklisp to install drakma
2015-06-04T19:10:57Z Shinmera: Also, CL+SSL is not a good solution to begin with.
2015-06-04T19:11:00Z |3b|: and want to use https in quicklisp
2015-06-04T19:11:15Z stassats: quicklisp.lisp is under https and has a pgp signature
2015-06-04T19:11:36Z DeadTrickster: Shinmera, why it not good?
2015-06-04T19:11:51Z Shinmera: Because OpenSSL is a giant monstrosity.
2015-06-04T19:12:00Z stassats: so using hashes will improve security at low cost
2015-06-04T19:12:06Z DeadTrickster: :-)
2015-06-04T19:12:20Z DeadTrickster: who will check hashes?
2015-06-04T19:12:27Z DeadTrickster: hashes for hashes
2015-06-04T19:13:09Z DeadTrickster: I'
2015-06-04T19:14:00Z DeadTrickster: I'm not sure you are not reinventing wheel here :-)
2015-06-04T19:14:37Z |3b|: a wheel needs reimplemented, not reinvented
2015-06-04T19:14:59Z nyef: The five-sided wheel that is OpenSSL should just plain be tossed.
2015-06-04T19:17:04Z stassats: that's how debian does it
2015-06-04T19:19:23Z DeadTrickster: or he can use curl to download stuff (not sure about windows though)
2015-06-04T19:19:45Z stassats: i don't have curl installed
2015-06-04T19:19:47Z Xach: stassats: i hope to do both
2015-06-04T19:20:12Z Xach: stassats: https for those who want it, hashes for those who want it
2015-06-04T19:20:20Z Xach: https+hashes or http+hashes
2015-06-04T19:20:28Z DeadTrickster: Xach, how hashes will work?
2015-06-04T19:20:51Z stassats: Xach: one thing, how much of a performance hit would it be for things like clisp
2015-06-04T19:21:08Z stassats: but i guess installation doesn't happen that often to worry
2015-06-04T19:22:05Z pkhuong: manifest over HTTPS would make sense.
2015-06-04T19:22:39Z stassats: quicklisp.lisp is already over https
2015-06-04T19:23:41Z stassats: but for upgrades it would need key signing, could be ripped from ironclad
2015-06-04T19:23:48Z Xach: DeadTrickster: have an index file listing all the archives and their hashes. sign that file with pgp and provide it via https. client fetches index file and verifies signature. uses hashes to verify integrity of archives.
2015-06-04T19:24:02Z Xach: stassats: clisp sucks at it.
2015-06-04T19:24:18Z Xach: my hope is that slow implementations like abcl and clisp provide cheats for the digest algorithms.
2015-06-04T19:24:52Z DeadTrickster: Xach, how it will be downloaded? what client?
2015-06-04T19:25:00Z Xach: DeadTrickster: how will what be downloaded?
2015-06-04T19:25:52Z DeadTrickster: index file
2015-06-04T19:26:08Z DeadTrickster: quoting you " provide it via https"
2015-06-04T19:26:11Z Xach: With Quicklisp's http or https client.
2015-06-04T19:26:27Z Xach: I hope to use https directly on implementations that support it like scieneer, lispworks, and allegro cl.
2015-06-04T19:26:37Z Xach: i hope to make it possible to hook in other clients on other implementations, e.g. drakma
2015-06-04T19:26:50Z DeadTrickster: yeah we just discussed drakma and cl+ssl
2015-06-04T19:27:20Z DeadTrickster: people say cl+ssl sucks
2015-06-04T19:27:34Z pkhuong: or perhaps, as a paranoid user, I could download the index with a full featured HTTP client, and point QL to it.
2015-06-04T19:28:20Z stassats: also you need to meet Xach and exchange pgp keys
2015-06-04T19:28:27Z DeadTrickster: or just use curl
2015-06-04T19:28:41Z DeadTrickster: with chain and hostname validation
2015-06-04T19:28:43Z DeadTrickster: turned on
2015-06-04T19:28:47Z Xach: yes. quicklisp.lisp comes with a pgp key.
2015-06-04T19:28:52Z Xach: (will)
2015-06-04T19:29:15Z Xach: i see it as analagous with accepting the keys provided by e.g. your distro provider; you can verify also
2015-06-04T19:29:38Z Xach: i got signatures at ELS from some people. i would like to grow the web.
2015-06-04T19:30:55Z Xach: https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x307965AB028B5FF7
2015-06-04T19:33:46Z Xach: pkhuong: what qualifies as full-featured? curl?
2015-06-04T19:38:29Z pkhuong: sure, or firefox. something that can handle HTTPS and trusting certs for me.
2015-06-04T19:39:31Z pkhuong: that's a stupid workaround, but downloading hashes is marginally easier than verifying signatures
2015-06-04T19:40:11Z Xach: I have the strong impression that the commercial implementations https/tls is just a straight binding to openssl
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2015-06-04T19:45:09Z Fare: so, you'd include an SHA-256 or such implementation from ironclad directly into quicklisp?
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2015-06-04T19:45:37Z Fare: (or whichever is the simplest safe-ish hash in ironclad)
2015-06-04T19:45:38Z Xach: I don't think I'd use ironclad's. It's written in Ironclad-Lisp, not Common Lisp.
2015-06-04T19:45:51Z Xach: I am not sure where I'll get it from, or if I'll write it myself, or what.
2015-06-04T19:46:05Z Xach: It is hard to use ironclad's routines without using the rest of ironclad.
2015-06-04T19:46:16Z Fare: what about using gpg, the way asdf-install used to do?
2015-06-04T19:46:38Z Xach: I think I may make it possible for someone to use gpg, but I am not going to rely on an external program by default.
2015-06-04T19:47:32Z akkad: netpgp
2015-06-04T19:47:34Z akkad: is bsd license
2015-06-04T19:48:20Z Xach: Is netpgp a Lisp program?
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2015-06-04T19:48:50Z pkhuong: yes, let's reduce the barrier to entry by relying on more external programs. "Ah, use quicklisp to install all these dependencies. But first, you must install quicklisp's dependencies!"
2015-06-04T19:49:45Z Fare: well, at least using run-program is portable these days; but it isn't necessarily nice to users to require them to install pgp (or anything) first.
2015-06-04T19:50:42Z Xach: pkhuong: that's what sunk clbuild for me.
2015-06-04T19:50:54Z Xach: the world is different now, of course.
2015-06-04T19:52:09Z Fare: there could be the lisp equivalent of a shell archive; then you could "just" use ironclad, drakma, etc., in your bootstrap quicklisp script.
2015-06-04T19:53:10Z stassats: Fare: but you need to sign that archive and check it
2015-06-04T19:53:45Z Xach: I am comfortable with my planned approach.
2015-06-04T19:58:34Z Fare: stassats, same as currently: quicklisp.lisp is still loaded via https or otherwise checked outside quicklisp.lisp
2015-06-04T19:58:54Z Xach: http://report.quicklisp.org/2015-06-04/failure-report/cl-primality.html#cl-primality - i haven't seen an error like that before
2015-06-04T19:59:17Z Xach: "Derived type of (SB-KERNEL:%MAKE-RATIO 1 SB-KERNEL:%DENOMINATOR) is ..."
2015-06-04T20:00:49Z akkad: Xach: is there any lisp implementation of pgp?
2015-06-04T20:01:26Z Xach: akkad: I don't know. I don't intend to make one, except for the part about parsing openpgp packets and verifying signatures.
2015-06-04T20:01:37Z akkad: ahh
2015-06-04T20:02:27Z stassats: Xach: that was changed in sbcl
2015-06-04T20:02:39Z stassats: Xach: cl-primality's fault
2015-06-04T20:02:59Z Xach: stassats: I'd like to make a good error report. Can you suggest something? https://github.com/smithzvk/cl-primality/blob/master/cl-primality.lisp is the code in question
2015-06-04T20:04:49Z stassats: it's (random (expt 2 (the fixnum x)))
2015-06-04T20:04:52Z stassats: in the last function
2015-06-04T20:05:20Z stassats: FIXNUM as a declaration is bad as it is
2015-06-04T20:05:42Z akkad: netpgp is c, and was just more linkable for many reasons.
2015-06-04T20:05:59Z stassats: Xach: but if the desire is still to restrict to fixnum, it (and unsigned-byte fixnum) will do the trick
2015-06-04T20:06:20Z stassats: while (unsigned-byte 32/64/whatever) would be better
2015-06-04T20:07:15Z Bike: oh, so basically sbcl is worrying about n-bits being negative.
2015-06-04T20:07:23Z stassats: yes
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2015-06-04T20:11:18Z stassats: it really shouldn't do that, but it's stupid when it comes to branches
2015-06-04T20:11:28Z stassats: or maybe it should, who knows
2015-06-04T20:12:20Z stassats: i think it's useful in this case, since fixnum is not the best declaration
2015-06-04T20:13:58Z stassats: (random (expt x -10)) doesn't do that, funny
2015-06-04T20:16:04Z stassats: i will fix that promptly
2015-06-04T20:20:25Z stassats: though if x is 1 it's still an integer
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2015-06-04T20:24:30Z stassats: oh, and of course if X is a float, silly me
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2015-06-04T20:27:41Z stassats: or a ratio...
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2015-06-04T22:50:58Z stassats: alright, i'm convinced that warning on (random (expt 2 (the integer y))) is a bad idea
2015-06-04T22:51:18Z stassats: will commit a fix after it passed the tests
2015-06-04T22:51:52Z stassats: Xach: that code will no longer fail, but it still can use better declarations
2015-06-04T22:56:46Z stassats: there should be a switch which tells sbcl to really consider types more strictly
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2015-06-04T23:03:30Z stassats: ok, it's in
2015-06-04T23:13:22Z Xach: stassats: thanks. the code has been updated
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2015-06-04T23:14:28Z Xach: Hmm, something is hanging in swank-protocol when building today
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2015-06-04T23:37:21Z stassats`: made an experimental strict type warning
2015-06-04T23:37:21Z stassats`: (random (the (or fixnum symbol) x)) says "Some of the types in the union (OR FIXNUM SYMBOL) conflict with the asserted type ..."
2015-06-04T23:37:21Z stassats`: let's see what it can catch
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2015-06-05T00:03:48Z stassats: too many false positives
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2015-06-06T12:00:53Z smokeink: hey! asked on #lisp already but no luck.. and i'm stuck. maybe someone here has some idea http://paste.lisp.org/display/149148
2015-06-06T12:02:17Z stassats: it's executing some garbage
2015-06-06T12:02:21Z stassats: smokeink: what's your CPU?
2015-06-06T12:03:00Z smokeink: 1sec
2015-06-06T12:04:56Z stassats: (coerce 0 'double-float) really?
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2015-06-06T12:05:44Z smokeink: http://paste.lisp.org/display/149315
2015-06-06T12:08:04Z stassats: that's vintage but should be fine
2015-06-06T12:08:35Z stassats: so, look at how you are using lisp-cv::%c-string-to-string
2015-06-06T12:08:47Z stassats: i don't know what it's supposed to do, but you need to check that you're using it correctly
2015-06-06T12:09:06Z smokeink: yes i checked, that one works well
2015-06-06T12:09:29Z stassats: and you shouldn't use it anyway
2015-06-06T12:09:32Z stassats: there's a c-string function
2015-06-06T12:15:18Z stassats: and string* in your definition won't give you a pointer
2015-06-06T12:16:31Z smokeink: hm
2015-06-06T12:17:45Z stassats: ok, it defines its own string*
2015-06-06T12:17:59Z stassats: ok, i'm out of time
2015-06-06T12:18:53Z smokeink: thank you for your time
2015-06-06T12:19:30Z stassats: just use gdb
2015-06-06T12:20:12Z smokeink: what should i debug with gdb ?
2015-06-06T12:20:42Z stassats: your problem
2015-06-06T12:21:38Z smokeink googling gdb debug cffi lisp
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2015-06-06T13:25:35Z smokeink: http://paste.lisp.org/display/149319 how would i go from here with the debugging ?
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2015-06-06T15:43:59Z |3b|: smokeink: did you mean to pass FACE to FACE-RECOGNIZER-TRAIN and not FACES? also, does LENGTH work on FACES when you initialize R and M?
2015-06-06T15:44:16Z |3b|: and if so is it the value you intend in R?
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2015-06-06T16:31:54Z smokeink: |3b|: faces (a vector of images) must be passed to face-recognizer-train, along with some targets/labels (which in my case is the column matrix m which has value 0 for the first face and value 1 for the 2nd face) , length works well (=2)
2015-06-06T16:32:35Z |3b|: last link passes FACE, not FACES
2015-06-06T16:32:59Z |3b|: and is length 2 when you initialize R (before you fill FACES)?
2015-06-06T16:37:44Z smokeink: length is not 2 when R is being initialized! fixing...   . that 'face' in the last paste was a typo, it's 'faces'
2015-06-06T16:46:13Z smokeink: http://paste.lisp.org/display/149148#2 it still crashes
2015-06-06T16:48:47Z smokeink: Unhandled memory fault at #xE48FBCE0. [Condition of type SB-SYS:MEMORY-FAULT-ERROR]
2015-06-06T16:53:54Z smokeink: opencv version: git checkout 3.0-ocl-tp2
2015-06-06T16:54:28Z smokeink: i have the c version program which works fine
2015-06-06T16:55:03Z smokeink: so the problem is with my lisp code not with opencv
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2015-06-06T17:17:00Z |3b|: smokeink: did you compile that opencv_generated.so yourself?
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2015-06-06T17:17:41Z |3b|: if so, try modifying cv_FaceRecognizer_train2 to print the parameters before calling the c++ function
2015-06-06T17:18:00Z |3b|: also, if your C code using that wrapper lib as well?
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2015-06-06T17:47:14Z stassats: smokeink: so, did you solve your problem?
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2015-06-06T18:06:54Z smokeink: stassats: no, not yet
2015-06-06T18:07:23Z smokeink: http://paste.lisp.org/display/149148#2 it still crashes
2015-06-06T18:08:29Z stassats: why are you running gdb under sudo?
2015-06-06T18:08:44Z smokeink: it won't work without sudo
2015-06-06T18:08:50Z stassats: that's not true
2015-06-06T18:09:24Z smokeink: Attaching to process 10015
2015-06-06T18:09:25Z smokeink: ptrace: 此項操作並不被允許.
2015-06-06T18:09:31Z smokeink: ptrace:operation not permitted
2015-06-06T18:09:57Z stassats: do sysctl kernel.yama.ptrace_scope = 0
2015-06-06T18:10:17Z stassats: and then put it into your /etc/sysctl.conf
2015-06-06T18:10:51Z smokeink: |3b| : i've just seen your reply. Yes opencv_generated.so is compiled manually. i'll try what you said
2015-06-06T18:15:59Z smokeink: stassats: yes now it works without sudo
2015-06-06T18:21:30Z stassats: and still, (coerce 800 'double-float), really?
2015-06-06T18:21:36Z stassats: it's 800d0
2015-06-06T18:23:33Z stassats: so, there
2015-06-06T18:23:38Z stassats: 's a recursion problem
2015-06-06T18:24:37Z stassats: does this thing use callbacks or something?
2015-06-06T18:26:13Z stassats: ok, i'll try installing ocv
2015-06-06T18:28:53Z smokeink: |3b|: actually the prog i have is in C++ not C, my bad. printf("self: %d, src: %d, labels: %d"); gives  self: -469498384, src: -468636784, labels: -248249296
2015-06-06T18:29:31Z stassats: better include \n
2015-06-06T18:29:36Z |3b|: try %p not %d
2015-06-06T18:29:45Z |3b|: or at least unsigned if you want int
2015-06-06T18:32:16Z smokeink: stassats: http://paste.lisp.org/display/148646#1
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2015-06-06T18:35:00Z smokeink: self: 0x7fffec040850 src: 0x7fffec112c90 labels: 0x7ffff1340430
2015-06-06T18:35:02Z stassats: well, Error opening shared object "/usr/local/lib/libopencv_highgui.so.3.0.0":
2015-06-06T18:35:16Z smokeink: did you compile opencv ?
2015-06-06T18:35:21Z |3b|: ah, those opencv bindings?
2015-06-06T18:35:36Z stassats: no, i don't want to compile them myself
2015-06-06T18:35:51Z smokeink: it won't work otherwise
2015-06-06T18:36:04Z smokeink: it's easy to compile them
2015-06-06T18:36:08Z stassats: then i won't try it
2015-06-06T18:36:38Z stassats does aptitude purge libopencv-dev
2015-06-06T18:38:19Z stassats: all those pointers point to the stack
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2015-06-06T18:39:29Z stassats: or maybe not
2015-06-06T18:40:26Z stassats: right, the stack has four effs
2015-06-06T18:44:13Z smokeink: http://paste.lisp.org/display/148646#2
2015-06-06T18:44:33Z stassats: that's too much for me
2015-06-06T18:44:47Z smokeink: no prob
2015-06-06T18:45:11Z smokeink: ive put the steps there just in case other ppl would ever need
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2015-06-06T19:07:32Z wkmanire: Good morning
2015-06-06T19:07:57Z wkmanire: I installed SBCL through gentoo's package manager and it looks like the package has bad default configurations.
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2015-06-06T19:08:21Z wkmanire: can't find core file at /usr/local/lib/sbcl//sbcl.core
2015-06-06T19:08:47Z wkmanire: sbcl core is actually under /usr/lib64/sbcl
2015-06-06T19:08:55Z wkmanire: How can I change where sbcl is looking?
2015-06-06T19:10:04Z jsnell_: pass --core, or set SBCL_HOME
2015-06-06T19:10:33Z wkmanire: jsnell_: Thanks. I'm just starting out with common lisp. Newb questions abound
2015-06-06T19:11:01Z wkmanire: Setting SBCL_HOME did the trick.
2015-06-06T19:11:05Z stassats: probably a good lesson not to trust packaged lisp software
2015-06-06T19:11:16Z wkmanire: Portage is usually really good.
2015-06-06T19:11:32Z wkmanire: In fact, this is the first package I've ever installed with bad default configurations
2015-06-06T19:12:32Z wkmanire: stassats: A lot of people recommend quicklisp once you get sbcl running
2015-06-06T19:12:38Z wkmanire: Is that recommended here as well?
2015-06-06T19:16:41Z stassats: yes
2015-06-06T19:16:57Z stassats: and then getting slime through it
2015-06-06T19:19:20Z wkmanire: stassats: Got quicklisp loaded
2015-06-06T19:19:27Z wkmanire: And yes, very much want slime.
2015-06-06T19:24:44Z smokeink: |3b|: C code crashes too it seems... http://paste.lisp.org/display/149148#3 :(
2015-06-06T19:25:58Z wkmanire: stassats: got my emacs ready to go. I've been reading practical common lisp. Do you suggest any other books or online resources for studying common lisp?
2015-06-06T19:33:03Z Shinmera: wkmanire: Just write and read lots of code.
2015-06-06T19:35:16Z wkmanire: Makes sense
2015-06-06T19:39:24Z |3b|: smokeink: c code with new?
2015-06-06T19:40:21Z |3b| suspects String isn't part of the C api either
2015-06-06T19:40:54Z |3b|: and c code calling some completely different function isn't really useful for debugging the lisp code
2015-06-06T19:41:29Z smokeink: void cv_FaceRecognizer_save1(FaceRecognizer* self, String* filename) that's it's prototype
2015-06-06T19:41:36Z |3b|: and that passes different arguments to the 1 function that is common
2015-06-06T19:41:38Z smokeink: for the 'c' binding
2015-06-06T19:42:28Z |3b|: ok, so String might be OK, but new isn't, and calling _save1 doesn't help us debug _train2
2015-06-06T19:44:28Z smokeink: train2 and save1 neither of them work in lisp, i thought to give it a try in some C code, forgot that new is not part of C :D it's 3:40 AM but i really want to find out what's going on
2015-06-06T19:49:17Z |3b|: try just passing "test.yml" directly to _save1 in c?
2015-06-06T19:49:46Z |3b|: or maybe &"test.yml"
2015-06-06T19:50:05Z |3b|: (is that the right syntax to get a char** from a literal string?)
2015-06-06T19:50:22Z |3b|: actually, nevermind... that shouldn't work
2015-06-06T19:50:45Z |3b| can't tell how they expect you to allocate a cv::String from c code in that wrapper lib
2015-06-06T19:53:20Z smokeink: static String fname     = "test.yml"; cv_FaceRecognizer_save1(r, &fname);
2015-06-06T19:53:34Z smokeink: that compiled, but it segfaults
2015-06-06T19:53:38Z |3b|: are you compiling it as C?
2015-06-06T19:53:51Z smokeink: no
2015-06-06T19:53:55Z smokeink: g++
2015-06-06T19:55:49Z |3b|: so it isn't even possible to test it properly, since that doesn't seem to have a C header :/
2015-06-06T19:56:47Z p_l: OpenCV is kinda lost cause outside C++ (and maybe Java) :(
2015-06-06T19:57:40Z smokeink: those lisp-cv bindings have quite a lot of functionality , over 20 000 lines of example code, i played with it for a while it's really nice, not really a lost cause
2015-06-06T19:58:52Z p_l: smokeink: I guess someone had a lot more determination than I - I recall that it was pretty much necessary to write the C interface from scratch, as a lot of stuff was based on C++ template instancing
2015-06-06T20:03:57Z |3b|: seems to be using a python script to generate a c wrapper
2015-06-06T20:08:27Z smokeink: guys i go to sleep, i really appreciate your help i learned a bit , i'll be back tomorrow , hope i can get this thing to work.. it'd be a pity not to have complete opencv bindings for CL
2015-06-06T20:08:36Z smokeink: peace
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2015-06-06T20:13:52Z |3b| can't even tell how the C side of that is supposed to work, and that's without even getting to the lisp code :/
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2015-06-07T02:25:13Z smokeink: hey
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2015-06-07T05:45:46Z names: ccl-logbot scymtym nikki93 smokeink pacon wbooze psy_ wkmanire frankS2 milosn edgar-rft nyef dougk_ foom White_Flame jdz DeadTrickster loke p_l |3b| flip214 Guest89832 nicdev fikusz Intensity kanru brucem drmeister carvite Bike Xof pkhuong dsp__ antoszka akkad Xach bsmr clop PuercoPop skrue joshe psilord dustinm` Fade irsol minion specbot pchrist Ralt christoph_debian ferada reb kjeldahl ivan4th rj-code tmh_ yauz les mood jsnell_ fe[nl]ix Blkt abbe
2015-06-07T05:45:46Z names: snafuchs luis
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2015-06-07T08:06:38Z smokeink: http://paste.lisp.org/display/149148#4 it's looks like my opencv problem has something to do with the smart pointer Ptr
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2015-06-07T11:35:45Z smokeink: looks like the java bindings wrap yet another Ptr around that Ptr, and pass the address of it as an opaque pointer , and have create() and delete() functions
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2015-06-07T11:48:45Z smokeink: https://bpaste.net/show/39846048a7e2 line 883
2015-06-07T11:54:05Z smokeink: it's wrapped twice to keep the refcounting alive
2015-06-07T11:54:28Z smokeink: but actually it's not clear to me how this works
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2015-06-07T12:37:24Z smokeink: i think i'm getting close http://paste.lisp.org/display/149148#5
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2015-06-07T13:14:33Z smokeink: tried this but no luck http://paste.lisp.org/display/149148#6
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2015-06-07T13:37:14Z stassats: 0x00000000000000d5 doesn't sound like a good place for the code to be
2015-06-07T13:39:05Z stassats: so, does this thing involve callbacks or not?
2015-06-07T13:39:10Z smokeink: no
2015-06-07T13:39:15Z smokeink: no callbacks
2015-06-07T13:41:18Z pkhuong: figure out how to make it work in C, then add FFI to the mix. You're trying to debug (at least) three things at once.
2015-06-07T13:42:01Z stassats: maybe it wants to call something but you don't give something to call?
2015-06-07T13:42:09Z stassats: your first error was SIGILL
2015-06-07T13:42:17Z stassats: consistent with calling garbage
2015-06-07T13:43:02Z stassats: maybe some intialization routines not called
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2015-06-07T20:14:35Z jacobgood1: Would anyone know why, all of a sudden, when I press C-c C-c from a file the repl no longer works giving me this error... The value NIL is not of type SB-C:POLICY.
2015-06-07T20:14:59Z Quadrescence: jacobgood1, SBCL recently updated its policy representation IIRC.
2015-06-07T20:15:04Z Quadrescence: And is probably out of sync with your slime
2015-06-07T20:15:49Z jacobgood1: Quadrescence: I am kind of a nub... what should I do to fix that?
2015-06-07T20:16:35Z Quadrescence: jacobgood1, I am just taking a guess that that is the case. How did you get SLIME? Via Quicklisp?
2015-06-07T20:16:39Z Quadrescence: How did you get SBCL?
2015-06-07T20:16:55Z jacobgood1: Quadrescence: quicklisp
2015-06-07T20:17:09Z jacobgood1: Quadrescence: for both cases
2015-06-07T20:17:23Z nyef: You can't get SBCL by way of quicklisp, surely?
2015-06-07T20:17:54Z jacobgood1: whoops
2015-06-07T20:18:07Z jacobgood1: told you I was a nub =)
2015-06-07T20:18:10Z Quadrescence: jacobgood1, did you try doing (ql:update-client) and (ql:update-all-dists) ?
2015-06-07T20:18:15Z Quadrescence: and then restart your slime
2015-06-07T20:19:07Z jacobgood1: Quadrescence: said I am already up to date
2015-06-07T20:19:24Z jacobgood1: Quadrescence: Should I try installing a new sbcl?
2015-06-07T20:19:41Z Quadrescence: That is probably reasonable.
2015-06-07T20:19:49Z Quadrescence: Do it from source, not from your package manager.
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2015-06-07T23:08:12Z Xach: Install old sbcl.
2015-06-07T23:08:19Z Xach: New sbcl accidentally broke slime.
2015-06-07T23:08:27Z Xach: new slime works around.
2015-06-07T23:08:33Z Xach: new quicklisp isn't out yet.
2015-06-07T23:08:37Z stassats: you can workaround it yourself
2015-06-07T23:09:26Z stassats: echo "(sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'safety)" >> ~/.sbclrc
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2015-06-09T04:39:04Z scymtym: pkhuong: beginnings of code walking hooks during ir1-conversion: http://paste.lisp.org/display/149431
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2015-06-09T07:11:41Z standoo: hello
2015-06-09T07:12:28Z standoo: if you launch sbcl thread within a thread, is the limit the parent thrad?
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2015-06-09T07:38:01Z |3b|: standoo: not sure what you are asking, which "limit"?
2015-06-09T07:38:27Z standoo: |3b|: memory
2015-06-09T07:39:05Z |3b|: all sbcl threads share same heap
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2015-06-09T07:40:17Z |3b|: they have separate stacks, i think the size of that is configurable, but i'm not sure if you can change it per thread
2015-06-09T07:41:25Z standoo: --dynamic-space-size megabytes?
2015-06-09T07:41:46Z |3b|: that controls heap size
2015-06-09T07:42:12Z |3b|: --control-stack-size for stack
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2015-06-09T08:19:53Z pkhuong: scymtym: neat. the interface seems a bit unwiedly, but that can be fixed outside sb!c
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2015-06-09T08:50:07Z scymtym: pkhuong: yes, the interface is for receiving, reconstituting and wrapping (in case of hooks) all kinds of forms including macros in a generic fashion. common cases like the trickster hook that transform one particular thing and traverse everything else (looking "through" macros) can be made concise by providing helper functions and maybe some CLOS support (the examples in the branch demonstrate both).
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2015-06-09T16:23:47Z smokeink: (sb-ext:run-program "/usr/bin/proxychains" `("wget" ,url "-O" ,fname "--header=\"Accept: text/html\"" "--user-agent=\"Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:21.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/21.0\"")) <- how to correctly pass the --user-agent and --header parameters ?
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2015-06-11T16:39:38Z hlavaty: since 8de5da8cad483b2cedb706a9e940ac8625246c20 Tue Jun 9 14:32:32 2015 sbcl doesnt build for me on linux x86-64 http://paste.lisp.org/display/149596
2015-06-11T16:43:17Z nyef: hlavaty: Trying an x86-64/linux build now.
2015-06-11T16:43:22Z nyef: (Of HEAD.)
2015-06-11T16:44:36Z hlavaty: thanks
2015-06-11T16:48:24Z nyef: ... And it's on host-2 now, so it looks like something peculiar to your system or how you're running the build.
2015-06-11T16:48:54Z nyef: So, to check the basics, how are you invoking the build process?
2015-06-11T16:51:29Z hlavaty: hmm, i'm running build on nixos
2015-06-11T16:52:14Z hlavaty: so you dont see  EVAL: undefined function HOST-CLOAD-STEM or EVAL: undefined function SB!VM:GENESIS?
2015-06-11T16:52:46Z nyef: No... And I don't believe that I would. What are you using as a host lisp?
2015-06-11T16:53:03Z nyef: That doesn't look like a normal set of error messages from SBCL, for example.
2015-06-11T16:53:07Z hlavaty: clisp i think
2015-06-11T16:53:25Z nyef: Ah. Lovely.
2015-06-11T16:53:30Z hlavaty: yeah, it's formatted by the continuous integration tool
2015-06-11T16:53:50Z nyef: Something is almost certainly going wrong much earlier in the process.
2015-06-11T16:54:19Z nyef: VERY early in the process, actually, if HOST-CLOAD-STEM isn't defined.
2015-06-11T16:55:34Z hlavaty: unfortunatelly, i dont understand that
2015-06-11T16:56:18Z nyef: HOST-CLOAD-STEM is part of the fundamental build machinery, and is therefore defined very close to the start of the build process.
2015-06-11T16:57:27Z nyef: If it's not defined, then something went wrong early.
2015-06-11T16:58:14Z hlavaty: yeah
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2015-06-11T16:58:49Z hlavaty: i suppose clisp bootstrap is little tested
2015-06-11T17:02:15Z nyef: Also probably depends a bit on the clisp version, as clisp has been known to do some weird things at times.
2015-06-11T17:04:16Z hlavaty: it's clisp-2.49
2015-06-11T17:06:52Z nyef: I'm not familiar with the whole building-with-clisp thing myself. Xof might know more, I guess...
2015-06-11T17:09:17Z hlavaty: i'm pretty sure that that commit broke it, because on that test machine was that commit the only thing that changed as far i know
2015-06-11T17:19:34Z scymtym: our build failures seem to support that: https://ci.cor-lab.org/job/sbcl-master/1057/
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2015-06-11T19:00:29Z dougk_: i'll take a look if I broke it
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2015-06-11T19:07:21Z dougk_: hlavaty: I forgot that clisp needs an eval-when :compile around defconstants. fix will be in shortly
2015-06-11T19:09:38Z nyef: clisp needs WHAT around defconstants? Is that even remotely conforming of them?
2015-06-11T19:09:55Z dougk_: yes, unfortunately it is in the way that we sometimes use it.
2015-06-11T19:10:37Z dougk_: i could find the example if I had the book in front of me
2015-06-11T19:11:14Z nyef: Ah, for read-time evaluation in the same file?
2015-06-11T19:11:20Z dougk_: exactly
2015-06-11T19:11:29Z nyef: Okay, that makes at least some sense. Thanks.
2015-06-11T19:11:43Z dougk_: and this is justified based on the telling the compiler to "actually" eval does not make it known to the outer (interpreter's) environment
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2015-06-11T19:29:03Z |3b|: someone should tell clisp that it isn't actually required to use 'each' with 'hash-key'. (it is right about FOR needing to be before other stuff though, not that i can tell where that happens from that build log)
2015-06-11T19:30:00Z |3b|: ah, in PARSE-PROPERTY maybe
2015-06-11T19:31:27Z |3b|: also, DO at end of previous FOR clause in that file, yuck :p
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2015-06-23T12:08:30Z stassats: and i get an unexpected failure
2015-06-23T12:08:39Z stassats: step.impure.lisp / STEP-OUT/2
2015-06-23T12:08:47Z stassats: Unhandled memory fault at #x0.
2015-06-23T12:10:41Z p_l: ;28
2015-06-23T12:10:48Z p_l: ... sorry
2015-06-23T12:23:06Z nyef: stassats: That's... neat. Does that use the fun-end-breakpoint stuff, or some other mechanism?
2015-06-23T12:23:19Z stassats: haven't looked at it
2015-06-23T12:23:23Z stassats: but it's a regression
2015-06-23T12:25:43Z stassats: ./run-tests.sh step.impure.lisp --break-on-failure of course doesn't fail
2015-06-23T12:26:30Z flip214: and doesn't break, either ;P
2015-06-23T12:27:00Z stassats: that's implied
2015-06-23T12:32:13Z flip214: hmm, it could fail, and then fail to break, too!
2015-06-23T12:35:57Z stassats: it's very fragile
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2015-06-24T13:07:36Z stassats: this is stupid
2015-06-24T13:07:56Z stassats: cp sbcl /tmp/sbcl; cd tests; ./run-tests.sh step.impure.lisp
2015-06-24T13:07:57Z stassats: doesn't fail
2015-06-24T13:08:11Z stassats: fails in the original place
2015-06-24T13:12:11Z stassats: this is the silliest bug i encountered
2015-06-24T13:23:07Z stassats: if i rename step.impure.lisp to st.impure.lisp, doesn't fail either
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2015-06-24T13:51:59Z |3b|: those are always fun
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2015-06-24T13:53:30Z stassats: i can't do anything with it
2015-06-24T13:53:46Z stassats: managed to land in ldb, it has no backtrace, gdb more helpful
2015-06-24T13:54:28Z stassats: valid_lisp_pointer_p is at the bottom
2015-06-24T13:54:59Z |3b|: do other same-length filenames break or not break?
2015-06-24T13:55:09Z stassats: sbc1 breaks
2015-06-24T13:55:31Z stassats: if i insert "1" somewhere in test-util.lisp, doesn't break
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2015-06-24T13:59:34Z |3b|: so depends on actual characters in the path, not just length?
2015-06-24T14:00:08Z stassats: it depends on what's in the heap
2015-06-24T14:00:17Z stassats: pathnames affect that too
2015-06-24T14:00:29Z |3b|: right, just curious about which effects
2015-06-24T14:00:34Z stassats: i meant "1" inside the file, not the name
2015-06-24T14:00:40Z |3b|: ah
2015-06-24T14:02:04Z |3b|: at one point corman lisp had a bug where hash tables would break if they were exactly 2 bytes from edge of a page, and building in a particular length dir would end up shifting some important hash table to a position that would trigger that, preventing loading slime
2015-06-24T14:02:16Z stassats: there's %ldb in the backtrace
2015-06-24T14:03:44Z stassats: handle-single-step-around-trap sounds like something that can be in the backtrace
2015-06-24T14:04:18Z stassats: manually backtracing: getting the backtrace from gdb, then doing "call component_pointer_from_pc" on addresses
2015-06-24T14:04:34Z stassats: then oring it with #xF, then continuing to ldb, then doing p the resulting address
2015-06-24T14:07:46Z stassats: not like stepping was ever really working right
2015-06-24T14:09:33Z stassats: at the end PC is at 0
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2015-06-24T19:12:29Z stassats: 4981BC24F000000017001020 CMP QWORD PTR [R12+240], 537919511  ; thread.stepping
2015-06-24T19:12:48Z stassats: a 12-byte instruction for checking stepping
2015-06-24T19:13:05Z stassats: surely it could just for a zero, and at a byte ptr
2015-06-24T19:13:08Z stassats: but i digress
2015-06-24T19:14:21Z stassats: it can even use memory protection
2015-06-24T19:14:51Z Xof: evening
2015-06-24T19:14:53Z stassats: though that will blow a whole page
2015-06-24T19:15:26Z nyef: Umm... Is that checking a TLS-bound symbol for NIL?
2015-06-24T19:15:39Z stassats: yes, that's stepping
2015-06-24T19:15:50Z stassats: i have a weirdest of failures in a stepping test
2015-06-24T19:16:05Z stassats: if i rename the file from step.impure.lisp to st.impure.lisp, it disappears
2015-06-24T19:16:15Z stassats: basically, i have no way of poking around
2015-06-24T19:16:25Z nyef: Yeah, use a zero, that'll let you knock at least the NIL out of there.
2015-06-24T19:16:44Z stassats: but i need to get it working first, not to optimize
2015-06-24T19:16:59Z stassats: somehow it ends up with PC being at 0x0
2015-06-24T19:17:01Z nyef: Is there a point in the file *after* which poking doesn't break it?
2015-06-24T19:17:41Z stassats: i think it depends on a precise address at which code resides
2015-06-24T19:17:41Z jsnell: is the failure just length dependent?
2015-06-24T19:18:03Z stassats: if i insert a "1" inside test-util.lisp, it disappears
2015-06-24T19:18:11Z stassats: just a top-level 1
2015-06-24T19:19:05Z stassats: but i can probably modify the runtime
2015-06-24T19:20:53Z stassats: when i attach gdb, i see valid_lisp_pointer_p at the bottom
2015-06-24T19:21:04Z stassats: then there's handle-single-step-around-trap sprinkled around
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2015-06-24T19:25:52Z stassats: ok, changes to the runtime do not affect it, only the dynamic space does
2015-06-24T19:47:08Z stassats: RAX after the call to handle-single-step-around-trap is 0x100604fddf
2015-06-24T19:47:23Z stassats: (gdb) x 0x100604fddfa+9 => 0x0
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2015-06-24T19:49:14Z stassats: trying the succeeding cases, there's 0x20200050 there
2015-06-24T19:49:21Z stassats: but component_pointer_from_pc doesn't recognize it
2015-06-24T19:54:12Z stassats: rax+9 is fdefn, isn't it?
2015-06-24T19:54:39Z stassats: but it passes the address of a function
2015-06-24T19:54:44Z stassats: as in, what? how did that work?
2015-06-24T19:56:44Z stassats: ok, it somehow accounts for that
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2015-06-24T19:59:17Z stassats: ok, so, the failing case it receives a fdefn of PRINT, but upon exit it's p 0x100604fddf => $11=      0x100604fddf: other pointer
2015-06-24T19:59:21Z stassats: not a fdefn at all
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2015-06-24T20:00:38Z nyef: Is it catching a GC in there or something?
2015-06-24T20:00:59Z stassats: SBCL_DYNDEBUG doesn't indicate a gc
2015-06-24T20:01:22Z stassats: oh wait, it affects only one layer, doesn't it?
2015-06-24T20:01:34Z stassats: it's a child of the test runner
2015-06-24T20:01:37Z nyef: I have no idea.
2015-06-24T20:02:27Z nyef: I know that we've had some real doozies when it comes to GC-safety of various short-lived constructs.
2015-06-24T20:03:59Z stassats: oh, i'm redirecting stdout
2015-06-24T20:04:17Z stassats: my guess was gc too, but i was misled by the absence of SBCL_DYNDEBUG output
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2015-06-24T20:07:08Z stassats: hm, SBCL_DYNDEBUG strangely doesn't say anything when gcing, am i misremembering
2015-06-24T20:07:41Z stassats: i'm pretty sure it's because of the gc moving
2015-06-24T20:07:50Z stassats: need to confirm that gc actually happens
2015-06-24T20:09:01Z stassats: of course (setf gc-logfile) throws it off
2015-06-24T20:09:08Z stassats: but it seems that there is a gc
2015-06-24T20:09:16Z stassats: i think i can make a better test case
2015-06-24T20:10:23Z nyef: Can you "just" arrange for the runtime to have a logfile in the first place, without having to SETF it?
2015-06-24T20:11:02Z stassats: i'm convinced anyway
2015-06-24T20:11:26Z stassats: it's not gc safe in any case
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2015-06-24T20:14:12Z stassats: bingo
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2015-06-24T20:18:10Z stassats: lp 1468495
2015-06-24T20:18:10Z specbot: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1468495
2015-06-24T20:18:42Z stassats: so, does it just need to slap PA around the call to handle_single_step_trap
2015-06-24T20:18:50Z nyef: stassats: Nice!
2015-06-24T20:19:05Z nyef: PA _where_? What?
2015-06-24T20:19:33Z nyef: Is it stepping generally, or just step-out?
2015-06-24T20:19:43Z stassats: handle_single_step_trap calls a function which creates a wrapper
2015-06-24T20:19:51Z stassats: it puts that wrapper into RAX, which is then called
2015-06-24T20:20:00Z stassats: but of course it can get GCed in the meantime
2015-06-24T20:20:34Z nyef: Oh, hell. The whole "runtime can't allocate safely" thing?
2015-06-24T20:21:07Z stassats: oh wait, it's all done in lisp, i can just pin it
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2015-06-24T20:23:58Z stassats: no, that won't work
2015-06-24T20:24:28Z stassats: only the RAX in the context holds it, and gc doesn't know about that context
2015-06-24T20:24:46Z nyef: Sounds like you want fake_foreign_function_call(), then?
2015-06-24T20:24:56Z stassats: it already has it
2015-06-24T20:25:08Z nyef: So why doesn't GC know about the context?
2015-06-24T20:25:32Z stassats: ok, let's think some more
2015-06-24T20:26:56Z stassats: ok, pinning should work
2015-06-24T20:27:05Z stassats: or not
2015-06-24T20:27:08Z stassats: argh, let's just try
2015-06-24T20:29:16Z stassats: so, set-context-register is a function
2015-06-24T20:29:32Z stassats: yes, pinning should work, since get-lisp-object-address will get a fixnumized representation
2015-06-24T20:29:42Z stassats: and won't hold the function down
2015-06-24T20:31:34Z stassats: at least the fix is easy
2015-06-24T20:34:37Z stassats: that did the trick
2015-06-24T20:34:46Z stassats: will push after the freeze
2015-06-24T20:38:16Z stassats: turns out, you can't step two functions at a time
2015-06-24T20:38:26Z stassats: The bounding indices 0 and 3 are bad for a sequence of length 0.
2015-06-24T20:42:28Z stassats: bah, doesn't happen in slime, hope for a backtrace
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2015-06-24T20:58:20Z stassats: can't find where that subseq might be coming from
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2015-06-24T21:16:57Z stassats: and my test case is bad, but when i do get a backtrace, it doesn't shed any light
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2015-06-25T19:36:03Z stassats: no idea what's causing simultaneous stepping to fail with a bad-indices error
2015-06-25T19:36:47Z stassats: and there's nothing smelling of bad indices in the backtrace
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2015-06-25T20:04:36Z stassats: another error: the value NIL is not of type compiled-code-location
2015-06-25T20:04:56Z stassats: for that i have a backtrace, it's from single-step-info-from-context
2015-06-25T20:05:19Z stassats: yep, that's not thread-safe
2015-06-25T20:06:54Z stassats: can't imagine anybody stepping multiple things simultaneously
2015-06-25T20:07:04Z stassats: maybe automated stepping
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2015-06-25T20:19:04Z stassats: but this makes any code modifying compiled-debug-funs thread-unsafe
2015-06-25T20:21:18Z nyef: Oh. I thought that we already knew that a good chunk of the low-level debugging stuff wasn't thread-safe in the slightest?
2015-06-25T20:22:18Z stassats: but should it stay that way?
2015-06-25T20:23:12Z nyef: Possibly not, but the other question is, can it be any other way?
2015-06-25T20:24:29Z stassats: computing debug information twice won't produce wrong results, so it shouldn't store partial results in the cache
2015-06-25T20:24:48Z stassats: that's the current problem, two threads filling in compiled-debug-funs
2015-06-25T20:25:20Z stassats: but it's low priority indeed
2015-06-25T20:25:55Z stassats: things like consing under without-gcing locking up sb-safepoint is more important to me
2015-06-25T20:26:11Z stassats: what conses under without-gcing? gethash
2015-06-25T20:26:55Z nyef: Maybe having an option to without-gcing to require a certain amount of nursery space would be a good idea?
2015-06-25T20:27:20Z nyef: Though if you're still allowing interrupts, then you've merely driven the bugs to be more subtle.
2015-06-25T20:27:38Z stassats: i think is just shouldn't deadlock first
2015-06-25T20:28:00Z nyef: Sure, sure.
2015-06-25T20:28:22Z stassats: but i haven't yet figured out why it does, sb-safepoint isn't really well understandable
2015-06-25T20:28:36Z stassats: there's some tricky statemachine, what it does, who knows
2015-06-25T20:29:25Z stassats: each time i fix bugs there it take several days of digging
2015-06-25T20:30:45Z nyef: I'm reminded of trying to get PPC threads going.
2015-06-25T20:31:26Z nyef: Only to find various places in the PPC backend and the runtime itself that were not threadsafe in the slightest, some of which took days to figure out.
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2015-06-25T20:46:23Z stassats: optimize stepping check encoding would also benefit moving the "stepping" slot of the thread struct closer to the start
2015-06-25T20:47:39Z stassats: because the larger offset requires more encoding space
2015-06-25T20:50:33Z stassats: i don't even use stepping
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2015-06-25T21:17:27Z stassats: sigh, no CF=0 and SF=0 jump
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2015-06-25T21:18:22Z stassats: s/CF/OF/
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2015-06-26T19:55:00Z zacts: can sbcl compile down to ELF?
2015-06-26T19:55:11Z zacts: like could I implement a UNIX bootloader (a lilo clone) using SBCL?
2015-06-26T19:55:20Z zacts: theoretically (practical issues aside)
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2015-06-26T20:01:49Z scymtym: zacts: depends on what you mean by "compile down". SBCL can generate three kinds of artifacts: 1) core files which are basically snapshots of the memory of the SBCL process. 2) executables in ELF format (on Linux and maybe other UNIX-like systems) which contain 1) and the "runtime". 3) fasl files are the output of CL:COMPILE-FILE. these use a custom format. 4) cfasl files. ignore these.
2015-06-26T20:02:17Z zacts: oh so for option 2
2015-06-26T20:02:25Z zacts: it requires an SBCL to execute?
2015-06-26T20:02:38Z nyef: For option two, you're looking at 40 to 60 megabyte files.
2015-06-26T20:02:48Z zacts: oh
2015-06-26T20:02:51Z Bike: well it has stuff like the memory allocation universe in it.
2015-06-26T20:03:02Z zacts: you can't statically compile a mini-sbcl into the ELFs of option #2?
2015-06-26T20:03:03Z Bike: like libc but huger
2015-06-26T20:03:29Z zacts: for linux I like musl
2015-06-26T20:03:49Z zacts: musl libc
2015-06-26T20:04:03Z Bike: "like" libc as in it has an analogous role, not as in you can replace it with a libc
2015-06-26T20:04:09Z nyef: For the rather embedded target of "a bootloader", SBCL-as-it-is would be a spectacularly poor fit, even in terms of conceptual models.
2015-06-26T20:05:08Z nyef: You might try thinking of an SBCL core file as a hibernation image for a VM, and the ELF version as the same with the kernel attached.
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2015-06-26T20:08:21Z nyef: If you're targetting a bootloader or similarly unsupported environment, SBCL is probably not what you want to be using. You would have to do quite a bit of hacking to SBCL itself to get it to spit out something that would even RUN in such an environment, and the restrictions on what you could write TO run in such an environment would be fairly onerous.
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2015-06-26T20:24:35Z p_l: nyef: weeeell... it could run on uefi xD
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2015-06-26T20:25:53Z p_l: zacts: that said, you can use SBCLs assembler to generate pure assembly code from CL which you could then pack into something like ELF
2015-06-26T20:26:10Z nyef: Been there, done that... With PE, not ELF.
2015-06-26T20:26:50Z p_l: nyef: well, tgere was a recent blog post about implementing forth inside sbcl this way
2015-06-26T20:27:11Z nyef: Yes... pkhuong's, wasn't it?
2015-06-26T20:27:35Z p_l: pvk was his domain, right?
2015-06-26T20:27:52Z p_l: i didn't recognize the style/layout
2015-06-26T20:28:14Z PuercoPop: zacts: there is github.com/eschulete/elf if you want to generate an ELF file from lisp
2015-06-26T20:29:35Z p_l: that said, what would be major hurdles to make SBCL include cross-compilers for all targets in one build?
2015-06-26T20:29:52Z p_l: (as fasls, not in default core)
2015-06-26T20:30:05Z nyef: That's... Umm... Wow.
2015-06-26T20:30:33Z nyef: PuercoPop: 404
2015-06-26T20:30:59Z p_l: doesn't have to be full CL compiler - just VOP infrastructure and sb-assem/disassem
2015-06-26T20:31:23Z nyef: p_l: You're still looking at needing the VM and primitive-object stuff.
2015-06-26T20:31:48Z p_l: the interest is in using parts of SBCL infrastructure to generate foreign code from CL
2015-06-26T20:32:14Z nyef: Ah, so you just want the assembler definitions and random TNs?
2015-06-26T20:32:51Z p_l: for starters, yes
2015-06-26T20:33:19Z p_l: idea is that I could use it to write tooling for custom hw/env/ISA
2015-06-26T20:33:41Z nyef: Might be easier to extract the SB-ASSEM parts of the compiler for standalone operation.
2015-06-26T20:34:52Z nyef: Otherwise... Well, see if you can bind a dynamic context to keep the two assembler definitions (and disassembler definitions) from colliding, and the same with the SBs.
2015-06-26T20:34:58Z p_l: well, yeah, but I'd love if the code would be mergable back ;-)
2015-06-26T20:35:34Z p_l: and yes, i was thinking of either a dynamic context or explicit new arguments
2015-06-26T20:41:58Z PuercoPop: nyef: sorry typo, www.github.com/eschulte/elf
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2015-06-26T20:43:30Z nyef: Ah. Thank you.
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2015-06-26T21:52:26Z nyef: Oh, for the... I declare (optimize (debug 3)) in my function, rebuild, re-run, hit the error trap again, ask for the list of local variables, and one of them is missing. WTF?
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2015-06-27T02:29:09Z zacts: nyef: how about ECL for a bootloader / embedded type of project?
2015-06-27T02:29:17Z zacts: would ECL > SBCL for such a use case?
2015-06-27T02:30:56Z nyef: I have no idea.
2015-06-27T02:31:10Z nyef: I've never seriously looked into ECL.
2015-06-27T02:33:34Z zacts: ah ok
2015-06-27T02:41:38Z joshe: I imagine there would be a lot of code to rewrite in either case
2015-06-27T02:42:08Z joshe: I imagine sbcl would have a head start because of movitz
2015-06-27T02:44:36Z joshe: you should seriously consider using an existing OS such as linux with an extremely minimal userland for an embedded project
2015-06-27T02:45:04Z joshe: or perhaps a smaller language, such as scheme
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2015-06-28T16:40:50Z nyef: Are we still in freeze for 1.2.13?
2015-06-28T16:45:21Z scymtym: i believe so since i haven't seen a release commit
2015-06-28T16:47:49Z nyef: That's the conclusion I came to as well.
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2015-06-28T18:51:49Z Xof: this evening or tomorrow
2015-06-28T18:51:54Z Xof: Gah so far behind everything
2015-06-28T18:51:59Z Xof: happy birthday to me, etc
2015-06-28T18:53:47Z nyef: Xof: Your birthday?
2015-06-28T18:54:20Z stassats: today?
2015-06-28T18:54:27Z Xof: yes
2015-06-28T18:54:35Z nyef: Happy birthday, then.
2015-06-28T18:54:41Z Xof: and what better to do than an sbcl release, so that I get the brickbats tomorrow :-)
2015-06-28T18:54:52Z Xof: well done everyone on not committing all sorts of things in the last 5 days
2015-06-28T18:55:39Z stassats: then felicitations
2015-06-28T18:56:33Z Xof: thank you
2015-06-28T18:58:29Z scymtym: happy birthday Xof
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2015-06-28T19:08:40Z Shinmera: Congratulations!
2015-06-28T19:16:27Z Xof: yay I have survived another year
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2015-06-28T19:47:21Z Xof: ok, people with itchy trigger fingers can probably push things now
2015-06-28T19:48:11Z stassats: yay
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2015-06-30T00:59:09Z dougk2: hey. Does it seem that the likelihood that ANSI sought to clarify that it is permitted to make a declaration about a nonexistent variable is within epsilon of zero?
2015-06-30T00:59:39Z dougk2: I wouldn't imagine anyone even bringing that issue to the table.
2015-06-30T00:59:39Z stassats: what's the use case?
2015-06-30T01:00:01Z dougk2: that our source code *claims* that ANSI claims that it is permissible to (declare (ignore foo)) when FOO is not a variable in the lexical scope
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2015-06-30T01:00:31Z dougk2: I think it was misinterpretation plain and simple, that ansi was claiming that the the *use* of foo in the scope of an ignorable declaration must be at most as severe as a style-warning.
2015-06-30T01:00:39Z dougk2: not "and you can generally declare random shit"
2015-06-30T01:01:38Z dougk2: fixing this will mean that we no longer let that slip through the cracks in PROCESS-IGNORE-DECL
2015-06-30T01:03:07Z stassats: reading clhs, yes, it does allow ignore for non defined vars
2015-06-30T01:03:20Z dougk2: where's that at?
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2015-06-30T01:04:20Z stassats: clhs ignore
2015-06-30T01:04:20Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_ignore.htm
2015-06-30T01:04:47Z stassats: it talks about the presence of special stopping warnings
2015-06-30T01:05:39Z stassats: or maybe it's talking about the bound special declaration
2015-06-30T01:06:16Z dougk2: I think it's talking about (defun foo (x) (declare (special x) (ignore x)) (baz)), and not (defun foo (x) (declare (ignore y)) ...)
2015-06-30T01:06:23Z nyef: I would argue that it should warn about IGNORE and IGNORABLE when there is neither a global nor a lexical binding, but is not a bound declaration.
2015-06-30T01:06:50Z dougk2: nyef: and would you agree it's worth a full warning?
2015-06-30T01:06:52Z stassats: ok, let's start with, can you ignore a special variable?
2015-06-30T01:07:16Z stassats: because a non-declared variable becomes special
2015-06-30T01:07:34Z dougk2: stassats: I think we warn about a known special being declared ignore.
2015-06-30T01:08:03Z dougk2: But how about a variable whose status in globaldb is :Unknown and there is no lexical binding. Why should it be "only" a style-warning to declare it ignore?
2015-06-30T01:08:37Z stassats: warnings is something that will produce an error when executed
2015-06-30T01:09:18Z nyef: Okay, next theory: IGNORE and IGNORABLE may be EITHER a bound or a free declaration...
2015-06-30T01:09:39Z dougk2: hmm. true, to both points, stassats and nyef.
2015-06-30T01:10:03Z nyef: And the scope of a bound declaration is such that both SPECIAL and IGNORE on the same level as bound declarations conflict.
2015-06-30T01:10:08Z dougk2: I pushed a change that makes it a full warning in the cross-compiler so I can stop wondering if we broke CCL-hosted builds
2015-06-30T01:10:44Z dougk2: because the use-case is icky enough that we shouldn't do that - it's always an accident and/or it won't cross-compile on at least one other host lisp
2015-06-30T01:11:10Z stassats: what about type declarations?
2015-06-30T01:11:19Z dougk2: didn't touch that, just the ignore.
2015-06-30T01:11:22Z dougk2: free type decls are fine
2015-06-30T01:11:50Z nyef: The question is, "what is the scope of free declarations"?
2015-06-30T01:12:13Z nyef: And the description for IGNORE and IGNORABLE state, quite clearly, that the conflict between SPECIAL and IGNORE should result in a STYLE-WARNING.
2015-06-30T01:13:31Z dougk2: nyef: would you argue then that CCL is clearly in the wrong for not accepting (declare (ignore such-such-var)) because it might be special, and you only accidentally didn't have the defvar early enough?
2015-06-30T01:13:43Z dougk2: no-such-var i mean.
2015-06-30T01:13:58Z nyef: I would not (yet?) argue that.
2015-06-30T01:14:54Z dougk2: i guess i'd really like self-build to be clean enough to not have style-warnings or warnings, but that's like a multi-year project
2015-06-30T01:15:08Z dougk2: that would be one way to sweep this problem under the rug
2015-06-30T01:15:42Z nyef: As free declarations, IGNORE and SPECIAL look like they should not conflict.
2015-06-30T01:16:20Z nyef: (At the same level, that is. And if IGNORE is a subform of the SPECIAL then still no conflict.)
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2015-06-30T01:19:39Z nyef: I'm going to argue that the behavior of a free declaration referring to some nonexisting binding (such as an undefined variable) is unspecified behavior.
2015-06-30T01:20:35Z nyef: If it causes Maxwell's Daemon to take up residence in your sinus cavity, then, well, that's what you get for invoking undefined behavior.
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2015-06-30T01:45:51Z stassats: a funny bug:  (funcall (compile nil `(lambda (x) (+ 1 x nil))) 2) => 3
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2015-06-30T02:23:42Z pkhuong: nice
2015-06-30T02:26:20Z stassats: i think IGNORE cannot be a free declaration, what is (let ((x)) (let () (declare (ignore x)))) supposed to mean?
2015-06-30T02:27:27Z pkhuong: I think that's OK
2015-06-30T02:27:35Z pkhuong: (locally (declare (ignore x))) isn't?
2015-06-30T02:29:24Z Bike: well it signals a style warning.
2015-06-30T02:30:18Z nyef: stassats: It means that you must not refer to X within the body of the inner LET.
2015-06-30T02:30:18Z stassats: in both cases
2015-06-30T02:30:38Z nyef: IGNORE is legal as both a free and a bound declaration.
2015-06-30T02:30:53Z stassats: does it say that?
2015-06-30T02:31:29Z stassats: clhs special
2015-06-30T02:31:29Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_specia.htm
2015-06-30T02:31:41Z nyef: clhs 3.3.4
2015-06-30T02:31:41Z specbot: Declaration Scope: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_cd.htm
2015-06-30T02:31:44Z stassats: here it does
2015-06-30T02:31:50Z stassats: clhs type
2015-06-30T02:31:50Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_type.htm
2015-06-30T02:31:59Z stassats: here as well
2015-06-30T02:32:01Z stassats: clhs inline
2015-06-30T02:32:01Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_inline.htm
2015-06-30T02:32:04Z stassats: clhs d-e
2015-06-30T02:32:05Z specbot: dynamic-extent: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_dynami.htm
2015-06-30T02:32:12Z stassats: ditto, ditto
2015-06-30T02:34:18Z nyef: But compare OPTIMIZE
2015-06-30T02:34:24Z nyef: clhs optimize
2015-06-30T02:34:24Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_optimi.htm
2015-06-30T02:34:29Z stassats: it doesn't apply to bindings?
2015-06-30T02:34:52Z stassats: "An optimize declaration can only be a free declaration."
2015-06-30T02:35:49Z nyef: Yes, an optimize declaration is one of the only declarations that does not apply to a binding.
2015-06-30T02:36:17Z stassats: those are not the only declarations, an implementation may provide additional declarations
2015-06-30T02:36:30Z nyef: Sorry, STANDARD declarations.
2015-06-30T02:36:57Z stassats: clhs declaration
2015-06-30T02:36:57Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_declar.htm
2015-06-30T02:37:09Z stassats: i have no idea what that was included
2015-06-30T02:37:53Z nyef: All declarations that apply to bindings other than IGNORE and IGNORABLE explicitly state that they apply to both free and bound declarations. OPTIMIZE does not refer to a binding and has a specific note that it is only valid as a free declaration.
2015-06-30T02:38:27Z stassats: well, a style-warning is warranted
2015-06-30T02:38:39Z stassats: a warning, not so much
2015-06-30T02:39:42Z nyef: 3.3.4 defines scope for declarations, tells us that declarations that do not apply to bindings can only be free declarations, and defines rules for determining if a declaration that applies to a binding is a free or bound declaration.
2015-06-30T02:40:53Z nyef: I would say that IGNORE and IGNORABLE can be either a free or a bound declaration, and that the explicit statement of such got lost in the mail.
2015-06-30T02:41:46Z stassats: but it doesn't make sense for it to be a free declaration, who declares things to be not used?
2015-06-30T02:43:22Z stassats: symbol-macrolet (error) then
2015-06-30T02:43:24Z nyef: Consider an "unhygenic" macro that wants some protection over its bindings.
2015-06-30T02:44:31Z pkhuong: nyef: that's... flimsy at best ;)
2015-06-30T02:44:38Z nyef: `(let ((foo ...)) ... (let () (declare (ignore foo)) ,@body)) => anything in BODY referring to FOO causes an error, but the macro referring to FOO is fine.
2015-06-30T02:45:22Z nyef: I didn't say it was necessarily good programming, just that the semantics clearly call for it to be a valid approach.
2015-06-30T02:45:42Z pkhuong: ... aren't implementations free to disregard declarations (except for special)?
2015-06-30T02:45:58Z pkhuong: in that case the SBCL way would still be to signal some sort of warning because it's unportable
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2015-06-30T09:00:30Z gabriel_laddel: Is there a way to do breakpoints in SBCL using condition hacks?
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2015-06-30T09:47:22Z flip214: gabriel_laddel: (trace :break)?
2015-06-30T09:52:08Z gabriel_laddel: flip214: Wow. Thanks.
2015-06-30T09:52:15Z gabriel_laddel: lifechanging.
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2015-06-30T16:00:56Z stassats` devised a table based generic arithmetic routine
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2015-06-30T16:01:36Z stassats`: smashes two widetags together, then fetches a function
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2015-06-30T16:03:48Z stassats`: needs an optimized op, some better inlined combinations (and a graph comparing to the current situation)
2015-06-30T16:03:52Z nyef: Presuming that the fix-fix case is picked off by an assembly-routine, the widetag space is six bits wide, so 12 bits of index...?
2015-06-30T16:04:09Z stassats`: 8 bits of index
2015-06-30T16:04:24Z stassats`: i shifted widetags 2 to the left, and numerics are grouped at the start
2015-06-30T16:04:28Z stassats`: to the right
2015-06-30T16:04:40Z nyef: Ah, okay, there's a bounds-check on there as well. Okay.
2015-06-30T16:04:56Z stassats`: (loop for (nil . w) in *widetags* collect (ash w -2)) => (7 10 9 8 5 4)
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2015-06-30T16:05:08Z stassats`: mix in single-float and fixnum in there, through a vop
2015-06-30T16:05:20Z stassats`: and move invalid widetags to 0
2015-06-30T16:05:46Z nyef: Single-float is still a widetag, though fixnum is not.
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2015-06-30T16:07:00Z stassats`: right, but single-float's widetag is in a different place
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2015-06-30T18:35:42Z stassats`: oh my, array-in-bounds-p conses
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2015-06-30T18:36:40Z stassats`: easily resolved
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2015-06-30T18:39:25Z stassats`: but it's slow for vectors
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2015-06-30T20:18:32Z stassats`: got to optimize array-in-bounds-p both inline and not
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2015-06-30T20:18:45Z stassats`: and out of line array-row-major-index
2015-06-30T20:18:48Z stassats`: now to validate
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2015-06-30T21:00:54Z stassats`: target-unicode has a lot of space to optimize
2015-06-30T21:01:44Z stassats`: not that i use it, but having more compact data-structures helps the core size
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2015-06-30T21:46:55Z reb: Does the ARM port of SBCL lack thread support because the CPU has too few registers?
2015-06-30T21:47:03Z stassats`: yes
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2015-06-30T21:47:19Z stassats`: the arm64 port, which is in progress, will solve that
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2015-06-30T21:49:42Z reb: x86 has even fewer registers, but supports threads.  Is the difference related to conservative scanning of the stack during GC?
2015-06-30T21:49:50Z stassats`: yes
2015-06-30T21:50:03Z stassats`: and x86 uses the segment register
2015-06-30T21:51:22Z reb: And the segment register is interesting because it's used for access to thread-local storage?
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2015-06-30T21:51:45Z stassats`: because you do not have to use general purpose registers
2015-06-30T21:52:04Z reb: For what?
2015-06-30T21:52:24Z stassats`: for the thread
2015-06-30T21:53:31Z nyef: A possible angle for having threads on ARM with the "precise" GC has been suggested in the past, though I don't know if anyone has gone to the trouble of validating that it would actually work.
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2015-06-30T21:55:00Z reb: stassats: By "for the thread" you mean the segment register holds a pointer to some thread-specific data structure?  I haven't written x86 assembly in many years.
2015-06-30T21:55:13Z stassats`: the thread object
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2015-06-30T21:56:00Z reb: nyef: Is there a description of what's missing for ARM plus threads plus precise GC?
2015-06-30T21:56:26Z stassats`: a register
2015-06-30T21:56:45Z nyef: Basically, yes. We need a register available to point to our TLS block.
2015-06-30T21:57:37Z reb: When I was reading about TLS on ARM there was talk of some coprocessor that has register storage that can be used to point at a TLS block.
2015-06-30T21:57:41Z nyef: The "possible angle" I mentioned would be to take reg_NULL (which is defined to always contain NIL) and make it into an offset pointer to a NIL.
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2015-06-30T21:58:19Z nyef: If that can be made to work, then we "just" have to put a known-nil in the THREAD structure, and we have a viable TLS register.
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2015-06-30T22:05:43Z reb: stassats / nyef: thanks  I can't find the coprocessor info ... what ARM versions support it.
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2015-06-30T22:06:42Z stassats`: hm, (aref (the simple-vector x) y) checks for INDEX, but (svref x y) checks for FIXNUM
2015-06-30T22:06:47Z stassats`: i want the latter
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2015-06-30T22:12:39Z stassats`: the difference being that aref has &rest
2015-06-30T22:14:15Z stassats`: which i don't get
2015-06-30T22:17:35Z stassats`: missed the part that svref is a source-transform
2015-06-30T22:17:54Z stassats`: so, it goes to data-vector-ref, then data-vector-ref-with-offset, which is declared to accept fixnums
2015-06-30T22:18:25Z stassats`: but ir1-transforms keep their types
2015-06-30T22:18:50Z stassats`: i always want to override that
2015-06-30T22:19:27Z pkhuong: that could really confuse type propagation
2015-06-30T22:19:58Z stassats`: leave type propagation, but don't insert casts
2015-06-30T22:21:28Z stassats`: i don't have an angle
2015-06-30T22:22:35Z stassats`: or that it should figure out that the function it calls will perform the same cast
2015-06-30T22:23:21Z pkhuong: ah. the problem is that we're too conservative with cast elision :(
2015-06-30T22:23:36Z stassats`: e.g. (disassemble (lambda (x y z) (array-in-bounds-p x y z)))
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2015-06-30T22:25:34Z stassats`: this one is coming not just from the transform, but from (assert-array-rank array (length indices))
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2015-06-30T22:27:07Z pkhuong: I wonder what would happen if I enabled bidirection constraint propagation
2015-06-30T22:27:32Z pkhuong: "if this cast fails, this other more stringent cast downstream will also fail, so we don't need it"
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