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2014-06-01T00:20:47Z names: ccl-logbot drmeister DGASAU oleo brucem Bike ASau Bicyclidine slyrus krzysz00 stassats yacks jsnell gingerale xymox samskulls p_l ivan4th christoph_debian psilord cmack karswell scymtym |3b| @Krystof MrJones PuercoPop jaimef irsol brown` loke_ White_Flame jackdaniel tmh_ kanru fikusz nicdev ChibaPet jdz _8hzp` carvite notori0us les ferada antoszka asedeno minion Intensity fe[nl]ix Blkt p_l|backup pkhuong ivan`` joshe flip214 leoc dsp_ pchrist mood
2014-06-01T00:20:47Z names: Posterdati milosn redline6561 yauz ams specbot foom cracauer faheem_ phf luis
2014-06-01T00:40:05Z stassats: android doesn't have a working getprotobyname, i guess one has to be implemented
2014-06-01T00:40:55Z stassats: and users frequently stumble upon missing /etc/protocols, so a default implementation can be both faster and more reliable
2014-06-01T00:41:12Z stassats: with a fallback to getprotobyname when it can't find and when getprotobyname is working
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2014-06-01T03:05:34Z stassats: android managed to locate a double free in sb-posix:stat
2014-06-01T03:05:47Z stassats: which didn't bother anything else
2014-06-01T03:06:35Z stassats: which is strange, maybe it isn't a double free after all
2014-06-01T03:08:35Z stassats: anywhere else => x86oids, and x86oids do not dispose of aliens
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2014-06-01T11:55:56Z nyef: G'morning all.
2014-06-01T12:11:08Z stassats: a search for sbcl.so
2014-06-01T12:17:28Z nyef: ... We have most of the pieces, actually, but they won't go together well on x86oids.
2014-06-01T12:17:50Z nyef: Umm... And interrupt handling might be a bit of an issue.
2014-06-01T12:21:36Z stassats: relocation of statics and fdefns?
2014-06-01T12:21:52Z nyef: Do we, or do we not, have reg_NULL?
2014-06-01T12:22:14Z stassats: on arm, yes
2014-06-01T12:23:26Z nyef: Name three architectures without reg_NULL.
2014-06-01T12:24:01Z nyef: (I'll give you a hint: Alpha, MIPS, PPC, and SPARC all have reg_NULL.)
2014-06-01T12:28:10Z stassats: and fdefns need to be in some organized place, so that as much of the core can be shared
2014-06-01T12:28:51Z nyef: Wait, why are non-static fdefns special?
2014-06-01T12:28:55Z stassats: and some things use static offsets inside the code
2014-06-01T12:29:37Z stassats: they need to be rewired, although, it can be viewed as a garbage collection process
2014-06-01T12:29:51Z stassats: and actually, the heap is always moving around, so sharing anything wouldn't be useful
2014-06-01T12:31:17Z stassats: yeah, many things need to be rewired, fdefns is what sprang to mind when reading about GOT/PLT, since they talk about functions an the like
2014-06-01T12:32:12Z nyef: GOT/PLT is your pointer to static space and/or linkage table, surely?
2014-06-01T12:32:28Z nyef: ... Or your TLS block.
2014-06-01T12:32:49Z stassats: right, but i thought abusing it even more
2014-06-01T12:35:11Z stassats: so, the dynamic space is loaded somewhere, has bad addresses, GC runs, takes those addresses relative to the actual offset and performs a gc, copying and fixing the references
2014-06-01T12:37:01Z nyef: You've seen the old relocation branch, right? I think it was lichtblau's work...
2014-06-01T12:37:10Z stassats: i have not
2014-06-01T12:39:05Z nyef: http://www.lichteblau.com/blubba/ has some intersting-looking files marked "relocate".
2014-06-01T12:39:37Z stassats: http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/lichteblau.git/commit/a01ee5883f0315a13e23f00034489d82d4f55002 has more
2014-06-01T12:39:58Z nyef: There you go, yeah.
2014-06-01T12:40:10Z stassats: ok, let's try to forward port that and see how it works
2014-06-01T12:40:22Z nyef: IIRC, the main problem with it was that it didn't work for cold-cores.
2014-06-01T12:42:19Z stassats: i got sbcl into a working condition on android, but without sbcl.so it isn't much of a use
2014-06-01T12:43:52Z nyef: Commit 9603675940cce3bcac93b354dca62d20c991cbce should deal with the issues with relocating cold-cores, FWIW.
2014-06-01T12:44:08Z nyef: (aka 1.0.25.2)
2014-06-01T12:44:34Z nyef: Yes, we could have had relocatable cores five years ago.
2014-06-01T12:45:49Z nyef: Okay, 1.0.25.3 also looks to be necessary for relocatable cold-cores on x86 (but not x86-64).
2014-06-01T12:51:20Z stassats: ok, that didn't compile right away
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2014-06-01T16:11:46Z scymtym: Krystof: thanks for your answer. the issue came up when trying to write additional unit tests for pattern-specializers. speaking of which: what are your current plans regarding those?
2014-06-01T16:28:07Z Krystof: hah!  My current plans are to survive the month of June :-/
2014-06-01T16:28:12Z Krystof: (good evening :-)
2014-06-01T16:28:24Z Krystof: I first need to understand what you've done
2014-06-01T16:28:53Z Krystof: I would like to unify the QUOTE and CLASS pattern-specializers enough with EQL and CLASS normal specializers, in order to try a pattern-specializer-by-default world
2014-06-01T16:29:10Z Krystof: (when I tried mixing ordinary CLASS and pattern specializers, I got some of pkhuong's symptoms)
2014-06-01T16:29:40Z Krystof: I also think it would be interesting to compare pattern specializers with optima dispatch at each call vs generalizers -- do we win anything by having the generalizer protocol in the mix?  If so what?
2014-06-01T16:29:48Z Krystof: then there's the stuff that's undone in the generalizer protocol
2014-06-01T16:29:57Z Krystof: revisiting the cacheing
2014-06-01T16:30:06Z Krystof: oh lord just writing this out makes it look like a mountain
2014-06-01T16:30:24Z Krystof: and then if we find something out, write it up and look for an audience for it
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2014-06-01T16:36:45Z scymtym: Krystof: and that's only the high-level view :) (hi)
2014-06-01T16:37:39Z scymtym: so, do you think going ahead with the scheme for passing pattern variable bindings i outlined in the email would make sense?
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2014-06-01T16:40:12Z scymtym: regarding the pattern-specializer-as-default/performance comparison: the best case for pattern specializers seems to be compiling everything a big OPTIMA:MATCH which directly returns applicable methods and pattern variable binding information
2014-06-01T16:41:44Z scymtym: i think such an implementation could come close to regular CLOS in some cases (but would ignore/bypass most of the generalizer protocol)
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2014-06-01T19:15:10Z oleo: morning
2014-06-01T19:15:35Z oleo: anyone able to get hu.dwim.partial-eval to run on 1.2 ?
2014-06-01T19:16:43Z Krystof: ignoring the generalizer protocol is not so bad if the full compute-applicable-methods is actually implemented
2014-06-01T19:16:54Z Krystof: which reminds me that I still need to implement :argument-precedence-order
2014-06-01T19:24:11Z scymtym: Krystof: i implemented it in one of the attached patches, IIRC
2014-06-01T19:25:33Z oleo: actually i meant https://github.com/huangjs/peval/blob/master/resource/partial-evaluation.lisp
2014-06-01T19:25:47Z oleo: emit-poly-value won't work here...
2014-06-01T19:32:20Z Krystof: scymtym: yay!
2014-06-01T19:32:50Z stassats: #+(or arm x86-64) is the new #+(or x86 x86-64)
2014-06-01T19:33:07Z Krystof: there's also the thing that I lost, which if all the specializers are standard we should punt to regular clos
2014-06-01T19:33:19Z stassats added reporting names of missing alien functions, which only worked on x86-64 previosly
2014-06-01T19:33:57Z scymtym: Krystof: maybe we should integrate/fix such things in the master branch and periodically rebase the pattern branch?
2014-06-01T19:36:14Z Krystof: ok, that sounds like a plan
2014-06-01T19:36:33Z Krystof: we should also work somewhere that you have write access
2014-06-01T19:36:38Z Krystof: s/you/we both/
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2014-06-01T19:36:58Z scymtym: Krystof: that would be convenient
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2014-06-01T19:38:18Z stassats: undefined alien variables could use getting a name, but not sure how
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2014-06-01T19:44:13Z stassats: on load stores it's possible to peg a register, but not on x86oids
2014-06-01T19:50:22Z nyef: stassats: Why not on x86-64?
2014-06-01T19:50:36Z stassats: immediates
2014-06-01T19:51:10Z nyef: Hrm.
2014-06-01T19:51:16Z nyef: Yeah, okay.
2014-06-01T19:51:45Z stassats: though, it goes through an address
2014-06-01T19:52:22Z stassats: but i'm not sure the state of MOV RAX, [RAX], if there's a memory fault, what value will RAX have?
2014-06-01T19:52:58Z nyef: If the PC is on that instruction? The address, not the value.
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2014-06-01T19:53:56Z stassats: is that guaranteed?
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2014-06-01T19:55:37Z stassats: with high debug it can avoid issuing immediates and choose different registers
2014-06-01T19:55:43Z scymtym: Krystof: generalizer computation generated by the new proof-of-concept binding handling: http://paste.lisp.org/display/142753
2014-06-01T19:56:39Z scymtym: methods bodies extract variable from the binding vector
2014-06-01T19:57:16Z nyef: Wait, even *with* an immediate, can't we grab the fault address from the signal context?
2014-06-01T19:57:35Z stassats: it's the same address
2014-06-01T19:58:06Z stassats: linkage table just links to a protected page for unknown variables
2014-06-01T19:58:20Z nyef: Hrm... Okay.
2014-06-01T19:58:37Z stassats: there can be a mirror of the linkage table, but again, that's not zero cost
2014-06-01T19:58:54Z nyef: The value of RAX would almost certainly be guaranteed, otherwise you wouldn't be able to restart the instruction after a page fault.
2014-06-01T19:59:26Z stassats: well, that doesn't matter, since RAX will have the protected page address
2014-06-01T20:00:05Z stassats: the sequence is MOV RAX, [#x20201160]  MOVSX RAX, BYTE PTR [RAX]
2014-06-01T20:00:16Z stassats: and #x20201160 is what needs to be fetched
2014-06-01T20:00:33Z nyef: And... the MOVSX isn't the faulting instruction?
2014-06-01T20:00:42Z stassats: movsx is the faulting instruction
2014-06-01T20:00:53Z nyef: Ah, I see now.
2014-06-01T20:01:05Z stassats: examining the instruction stream can work
2014-06-01T20:01:18Z nyef: Gah. Don't go there, that way lies madness.
2014-06-01T20:01:37Z nyef: What you're looking at is wanting a map from fault addresses to linkage-table entries, surely?
2014-06-01T20:01:50Z stassats: fault address is the same
2014-06-01T20:01:56Z nyef: And that can go in the debug info or the trace-table area.
2014-06-01T20:02:10Z nyef: The address of the faulting instruction.
2014-06-01T20:04:05Z stassats: that can work too, but at this point that's too much work to bother
2014-06-01T20:04:41Z stassats: now, i also want (/ 1 0.0) to know on which operands it was performed
2014-06-01T20:05:12Z stassats: decoding the instruction and looking up the registers is one way
2014-06-01T20:08:25Z nyef: Still seems like a Bad Idea.
2014-06-01T20:08:51Z stassats: for the debugger, it doesn't have to be accurate
2014-06-01T20:09:37Z stassats: saving on which registers the current instruction operates should work too
2014-06-01T20:09:42Z Krystof: scymtym: that looks nice.  (Is it a double-paste, or should I be looking for subtle differences between the two lambdas? :)
2014-06-01T20:10:42Z Krystof: now, what about call-next-method?
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2014-06-01T20:11:05Z scymtym: Krystof: oh, sorry; my mouse is broken and sometimes generates additional clicks :)
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2014-06-01T20:12:56Z scymtym: this is only part of GENERALIZERS-OF-USING-CLASS
2014-06-01T20:13:08Z scymtym: the other part potentially calls the next method
2014-06-01T20:13:59Z Krystof: and fills in the bindings for that method?
2014-06-01T20:14:52Z scymtym: Krystof: just a moment
2014-06-01T20:20:48Z scymtym: Krystof: clustering of pattern-specializers for each required parameter allows computing all pattern-generalizers in one successful match; non-pattern-generalizers for a parameter are computed by calling the next GENERALIZERS-OF-USING-CLASS method
2014-06-01T20:21:16Z Krystof: and I'm back to step one "undestand what you've done" :-)
2014-06-01T20:22:59Z scymtym: the explanation in my email is still valid
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2014-06-02T02:52:49Z pkhuong: annoying. We have a ton of code that depends on array-type-element-type = *wild-type* for specialness.
2014-06-02T02:54:50Z pkhuong: most of it could be replaced with array-type-unspecialised-p, I guess.
2014-06-02T02:55:08Z pkhuong: but I'll leave that refactor for later, and focus on fixing the really bad stuff.
2014-06-02T03:04:54Z pkhuong: also, almost all uses of unknown-type-p instead of contains-unknown-type-p are highly suspect.
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2014-06-02T14:52:23Z erikvarga: Does someone know why the ldb (byte #.sb!vm:n-word-bits 0) part is needed for getting the remainder in the truncate transform? In src/compiler/srctran.lisp
2014-06-02T14:52:29Z erikvarga: Here's the relevant code: http://paste.lisp.org/display/142759
2014-06-02T14:58:13Z pkhuong: erikvarga: that's our (portable) way to ask for overflowing unsigned arithmetic
2014-06-02T14:58:53Z pkhuong: since the compiler isn't smart enough to see that'll never overflow, that's how we get it to emit nice code, without any overflow check.
2014-06-02T15:03:18Z erikvarga: pkhuong: I see, thanks. I asked because I'm trying to adapt this code for signed division and this causes incorrect results the remainder is negative.
2014-06-02T15:03:33Z erikvarga: *when the remainder is negative
2014-06-02T15:06:04Z jsnell: it might want to be a mask-signed-field instead
2014-06-02T15:06:19Z jsnell: (without looking at the transform)
2014-06-02T15:06:46Z stassats: does it care about the sign?
2014-06-02T15:06:52Z stassats: gen-_unsigned_-div-by-constant-expr
2014-06-02T15:08:08Z erikvarga: stassats: It doesn't in yet, but I'm working on making it into a gen-div-by-constant-expr
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2014-06-02T15:14:45Z erikvarga: jsnell: all right, thanks, I didn't know about that
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2014-06-02T15:43:52Z pkhuong: erikvarga: you want different generators for signed and unsigned truncate.
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2014-06-02T15:47:50Z Krystof: erikvarga: sorry I haven't been able to meet today -- it's been ridiculous
2014-06-02T15:48:16Z Krystof: I can do tomorrow afternoon, say 14:30 my time / 15:30 yours?
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2014-06-02T16:04:35Z erikvarga: Krystof: All right, 15:30 is good for me. I started with a common generator because they had a lot of similar parts, but it's starting to look like a bad idea now
2014-06-02T16:07:28Z Krystof: my rule of thumb is to write the common generator when the third example comes along
2014-06-02T16:08:05Z Krystof: wait, gah, I can't do 15:30 your time.  I'm an idiot
2014-06-02T16:08:18Z Krystof: I can do 16:30 your time, I think
2014-06-02T16:08:44Z Krystof: sorry
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2014-06-02T16:12:51Z erikvarga: No problem, 16:30's okay too
2014-06-02T16:16:18Z Krystof: ok, you're in the diary
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2014-06-02T18:19:14Z alpha-: where I can find documentation for the new sb-mpfr thing ?
2014-06-02T18:19:19Z alpha-: also, hi
2014-06-02T18:20:04Z stassats: take the mpfr documentation and mentally append sb-
2014-06-02T18:23:01Z alpha-: ok
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2014-06-02T18:31:48Z alpha-: CL-USER>  (sb-mpfr:set-precision 400)
2014-06-02T18:31:49Z alpha-: Package SB-MPFR does not exist.
2014-06-02T18:31:55Z alpha-: what am I doing wrong?
2014-06-02T18:32:07Z stassats: not loading sb-mpfr
2014-06-02T18:34:00Z alpha-: ok thanks
2014-06-02T18:34:49Z alpha-: it works
2014-06-02T18:34:52Z alpha-: this is really nice
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2014-06-02T19:39:58Z owl-v-: finished watching wwdc2014 apple keynote
2014-06-02T19:40:59Z owl-v-: they introduced a new language, and i thought 'CL', but it was something else...
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2014-06-02T19:51:18Z foom: C#? No, something else.
2014-06-02T19:52:06Z Bicyclidine: "swift". i'm not sure what it has to do with sbcl.
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2014-06-02T23:01:53Z cracauer: hoi
2014-06-02T23:02:13Z cracauer: looks like I got the less conservative GC mostly working-ish
2014-06-02T23:02:37Z cracauer: however, I seem to face what I thought is a trivial problem - what do I wipe the cells with that are now to be wiped?
2014-06-02T23:03:06Z cracauer: Neither binary 0 nor NIL nor a fixnum work for all the GC code
2014-06-02T23:03:06Z jsnell: just zeroes should be fine, I think
2014-06-02T23:03:20Z cracauer: no, there is type dispatch that chokes on it
2014-06-02T23:03:36Z stassats: centre-right GC?
2014-06-02T23:03:37Z cracauer: I could fix up that other part of the code but I thought there must be something simple
2014-06-02T23:03:50Z cracauer: What is centre-right GC?
2014-06-02T23:03:55Z jsnell: hm. that very surprising to me, it should look like a sequence of conses with fixnum 0 on both car and cdr
2014-06-02T23:04:15Z cracauer: but the first word in the page can already be one I want to wipe
2014-06-02T23:04:26Z stassats: less conservative
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2014-06-02T23:04:34Z cracauer: oh
2014-06-02T23:04:37Z cracauer: yes, exactly
2014-06-02T23:04:51Z cracauer: let me get the exact replay of choking on 0
2014-06-02T23:04:54Z jsnell: it being the first word shouldn't matter
2014-06-02T23:05:15Z cracauer: oh
2014-06-02T23:05:22Z jsnell: a cons has no header, and can certainly be located at the start of the page
2014-06-02T23:05:25Z cracauer: no, actually it is hash tables choking
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2014-06-02T23:05:59Z cracauer: SBCL pid 3724(tid 140737353930496): hash table not instance (0 at 406b150)
2014-06-02T23:06:14Z cracauer: I guess I need some more work maybe on weak hash tables
2014-06-02T23:06:19Z cracauer: I tried to avoid that
2014-06-02T23:06:41Z cracauer: my wiping is placed before
2014-06-02T23:07:05Z cracauer: scan_weak_hash_tables and scan_weak_pointers
2014-06-02T23:08:29Z cracauer: moving the zeroing to after doesn't fix it
2014-06-02T23:08:46Z cracauer: OK, but you think 0 should work. That's good, then I'll do the hashtables now
2014-06-02T23:09:00Z stassats: scav_vector is somewhat confusingly named
2014-06-02T23:10:04Z cracauer: yes it bombs in scav_vector
2014-06-02T23:10:11Z cracauer: and it had gotten me confused
2014-06-02T23:10:47Z stassats: i wouldn't mind if you renamed it to scav_hash_vector or something
2014-06-02T23:11:20Z stassats: but wait
2014-06-02T23:11:29Z stassats: scavtab[SIMPLE_VECTOR_WIDETAG] = scav_vector, so it's for vectors or not?
2014-06-02T23:11:33Z jsnell: it's for all vectors
2014-06-02T23:11:45Z jsnell: but only does non-trivial work for hashtables
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2014-06-02T23:12:15Z cracauer: why would the GC run into scav_vector for my wiped cells?
2014-06-02T23:12:23Z cracauer: ohhhhh
2014-06-02T23:12:33Z cracauer: because I'm not sure whether it is at the beginning or not
2014-06-02T23:13:14Z cracauer: let's say I screw up protecting my conservatively pointed to object. Then it runs into the vector code and falls off the end
2014-06-02T23:13:27Z cracauer: I think I need to review when I treat things using words and when using dwords
2014-06-02T23:14:54Z stassats: #define subtype_VectorNormal 0 /* 0x0 */
2014-06-02T23:15:23Z stassats: not sure, maybe it just coincides with zeroing
2014-06-02T23:15:53Z cracauer: let's backtrack, why would it be a cons cell with two fixnums==0 if I just zero?
2014-06-02T23:16:01Z cracauer: I thought I need to tag the first word for that
2014-06-02T23:16:20Z jsnell: conses have no header word
2014-06-02T23:16:23Z stassats: cons is just two memory cells, the tag is in the low-tag
2014-06-02T23:16:30Z cracauer: yes I know
2014-06-02T23:16:39Z cracauer: so I need to put the tag on the first 0, no?
2014-06-02T23:16:55Z stassats: which tag?
2014-06-02T23:17:04Z cracauer: the lowtag for conses
2014-06-02T23:17:12Z jsnell: that's in the pointer to the cons
2014-06-02T23:17:19Z jsnell: not in the cons itself
2014-06-02T23:17:29Z cracauer: ok
2014-06-02T23:17:39Z cracauer: thanks, that explains it
2014-06-02T23:17:55Z cracauer: then I think I am probably falling off my protected object, cutting it in half or so
2014-06-02T23:19:17Z stassats: so, you are erasing the hashtable structure, but the hash-vector still points to that hashtable?
2014-06-02T23:19:20Z jsnell: hm, not sure it looks like that to me. what you have is a hash-table backing vector with the correct magic header, but with a 0 in the 3rd slot
2014-06-02T23:19:27Z cracauer: no, it's worse
2014-06-02T23:19:31Z jsnell: which is usually supposed to contain a backpointer to the hashtable
2014-06-02T23:19:52Z cracauer: it looks like there is a vector starting in the previous page
2014-06-02T23:20:06Z cracauer: and then I go zero out parts of it in this page
2014-06-02T23:20:16Z cracauer: but I don't run any of this code for multi-page objects
2014-06-02T23:20:49Z cracauer: brb, I need more debugging printfs
2014-06-02T23:22:51Z stassats: would a precise GC still need scavenging?
2014-06-02T23:23:47Z stassats: i may be misinterpreting what scavenging does: walking through memory and picking up what looks like pointers
2014-06-02T23:24:02Z stassats: whereas a precise gc would need only to go from the roots
2014-06-02T23:24:30Z jsnell: it's also needed by a precise gc
2014-06-02T23:24:54Z stassats: for the stack?
2014-06-02T23:25:10Z jsnell: it has nothing to do with conservativeness
2014-06-02T23:26:33Z stassats: so, what exactly does scavenging do?
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2014-06-02T23:29:19Z cracauer: scav_vector (where=0x1004123480
2014-06-02T23:29:27Z cracauer: that is where it fails. The page I messed with is:
2014-06-02T23:29:54Z jsnell: if we think in terms of cheneygc, scavenge() goes through a region of heap that's live, and transports all data pointed to from that region to newspace
2014-06-02T23:30:06Z cracauer: pages 2085 - 2085 addr 0x1004128000-0x1004130000
2014-06-02T23:30:28Z stassats: so it operates in terms of pages, not pointers?
2014-06-02T23:30:52Z stassats: or some other aggregate entities
2014-06-02T23:31:01Z cracauer: for pages that have conservatively pointed to objects in them it runs scavenge separately
2014-06-02T23:31:11Z cracauer: on these objects and the normal ones
2014-06-02T23:31:17Z stassats: and bigsurv.ps doesn't have working C-f
2014-06-02T23:31:20Z cracauer: so it works on objects, not pages
2014-06-02T23:31:28Z cracauer: however, I debug-print which page I mess with
2014-06-02T23:31:57Z cracauer: so, in this case the page I mess with is after the address that has some form of problem
2014-06-02T23:32:44Z jsnell: it's hard to be more exact than just that it deals with regions of live data. it can either be a page, or it could e.g. just be all the boxed slots of a instance
2014-06-02T23:32:44Z cracauer: by 19328 bytes
2014-06-02T23:33:16Z cracauer: how how can this vector starting halfway  in the previous page get upset about what I do in my page
2014-06-02T23:34:39Z jsnell: what's the value of the word at "where"?
2014-06-02T23:35:03Z cracauer: hold sec, need to rerun
2014-06-02T23:35:09Z jsnell: or HeaderValue(object), if you're doing debug printfs
2014-06-02T23:36:31Z cracauer: *where is 681 decimal
2014-06-02T23:36:33Z cracauer: uh
2014-06-02T23:37:52Z cracauer: let me do headervalue()
2014-06-02T23:38:11Z jsnell: ok, so it really is a hashtable vector (rather than one where the headervalue got corrupted)
2014-06-02T23:38:35Z cracauer: how can we tell how long it should be?
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2014-06-02T23:39:03Z stassats: the first word after the header should be length?
2014-06-02T23:39:18Z cracauer: headervalue(object) = 2
2014-06-02T23:39:47Z jsnell: oops, I misread the lose(). the vector is ok, it's the hashtable that's bad
2014-06-02T23:40:37Z cracauer: can we confirm or deny that it's length goes into "my" conservative page?
2014-06-02T23:41:39Z jsnell: so it's like you've relocated a hashtable + cleared the memory, but not switched the backpointer in the vector to point to the new location
2014-06-02T23:43:30Z cracauer: kv_length is only 256
2014-06-02T23:43:40Z cracauer: so it should invade the next page
2014-06-02T23:43:44Z cracauer: shouldn't
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2014-06-02T23:44:19Z stassats: weak hashtable scavenging is delayed
2014-06-02T23:45:29Z cracauer: the problem happens identically whether I do the wipe before or after scan_weak_hashtables
2014-06-02T23:46:47Z cracauer: how can I tell whether this is a weak or normal hashtable?
2014-06-02T23:46:58Z stassats: well, if you erased it, you can't
2014-06-02T23:47:47Z stassats: maybe pull the gdb backtrace, see if it's coming from scav_weak_hash_tables or something
2014-06-02T23:48:15Z cracauer: no, what I erase is in the page after the page containing this vector
2014-06-02T23:48:32Z stassats: or no, scav_weak_hash_tables just calls scav_hash_table_entries
2014-06-02T23:49:16Z cracauer: oh, it is actually coking on scavenge coming from scavenge_newspace_generation
2014-06-02T23:49:38Z cracauer: my modified page is not in newspace
2014-06-02T23:49:42Z cracauer: but the previous one might
2014-06-02T23:50:17Z stassats: the hash-vector may be younger than the hashtable, due to rehashing
2014-06-02T23:50:21Z scymtym: loop.pure:of-type-character fails when building without sb-unicode (https://ci.cor-lab.org/job/sbcl-master/506/featureset=3,label=ubuntu_trusty_64bit/consoleFull; search for "UNEXPECTED-FAILURE :OF-TYPE-CHARACTER")
2014-06-02T23:50:47Z stassats: scymtym: thanks
2014-06-02T23:51:27Z scymtym: stassats: no problem; sorry for not noticing earlier, but i guess you know the offending commit right away in this case
2014-06-02T23:51:46Z stassats: i know the offending committer too
2014-06-02T23:52:02Z scymtym: :)
2014-06-02T23:52:24Z jsnell: hm. that doesn't make sense to me. I understood the zeroing to apply to data that was just transported to a different page
2014-06-02T23:53:17Z jsnell: which should not be happening to data in a generation that's not being collected
2014-06-02T23:55:01Z jsnell: since it'd potentially mean breaking the generational invariant
2014-06-02T23:55:07Z cracauer: I run scavenge over the data I don't want protected, allowing it to be from_space if the page was from_space
2014-06-02T23:55:32Z cracauer: for the data that I want protected I pretend to scavenge that the page is new_space
2014-06-02T23:56:16Z cracauer: oh, wait
2014-06-02T23:56:27Z cracauer: I guess I should zero it only if it was old_space
2014-06-02T23:56:29Z cracauer: oops
2014-06-02T23:56:34Z cracauer: cough
2014-06-02T23:57:01Z stassats: so, my problem is (subtypep 'extended-char 'number) => T
2014-06-02T23:57:24Z stassats: it's an empty type, alright
2014-06-02T23:57:51Z stassats: but 0.0 doesn't sound like it would be an initial value for the empty type
2014-06-02T23:58:56Z cracauer: no, that wasn't the problem. That actually did happen that way, I only wipe if the page was from_space
2014-06-02T23:59:22Z stassats: good as any, i guess, then the test is just broken
2014-06-03T00:04:43Z jsnell: cracauer: is your code visible somewhere public?
2014-06-03T00:05:09Z cracauer: it's very ugly with debug printfs, would prefer to mail :-)
2014-06-03T00:05:18Z jsnell: that's fine
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2014-06-03T00:06:00Z stassats: you can make pastes on paste.lisp with limited time to live
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2014-06-03T00:06:16Z cracauer: before I mail, I was wrong. I actually do wipe the location of hash_table
2014-06-03T00:06:17Z stassats: hour/day/etc.
2014-06-03T00:06:21Z cracauer: it is just a previous page
2014-06-03T00:06:29Z cracauer: a page I do wipe
2014-06-03T00:06:46Z cracauer: give me  a couple minutes for mail
2014-06-03T00:06:58Z stassats: and now, (loop with a of-type (and fixnum string) return a) would warn "The type declarations T and NIL for A conflict.", instead of being silent
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2014-06-03T00:08:16Z stassats: i want to rewrite LOOP using proper structures, and with full access to the compiler internals, but then i have better things to do
2014-06-03T00:11:09Z cracauer: mailed
2014-06-03T00:11:14Z cracauer: not sure how readable it is
2014-06-03T00:14:43Z cracauer: so it is fairly obvious that the vector when through scavenging but that something did not have the pointer adjusted to the new location
2014-06-03T00:15:10Z cracauer: I cannot tell whether it is weak or not because I wiped the fields in there :-) As you said.
2014-06-03T00:17:21Z stassats: can you print the hashtable weakness when you wipe it?
2014-06-03T00:17:22Z jsnell: just to be clear, it's not the vector that's the issue
2014-06-03T00:17:23Z stassats: with an address
2014-06-03T00:17:40Z cracauer: yeah, all the fields are wiped now
2014-06-03T00:17:42Z jsnell: or rather, it's not the vector whose address was not being adjusted
2014-06-03T00:18:04Z cracauer: good point
2014-06-03T00:18:14Z jsnell: (thanks, looking through the patch now to see if I'm correctly understanding what you're doing)
2014-06-03T00:18:17Z stassats: or you don't discriminate in your hashtable killing?
2014-06-03T00:19:00Z cracauer: do you want the diff, stassats?
2014-06-03T00:19:15Z cracauer: by the time that I do the wipe, all GC should have finished
2014-06-03T00:19:21Z stassats: well, i don't know enough about GC
2014-06-03T00:20:40Z jsnell: cracauer: right, but if you mess up it'll show up on the next call to gc
2014-06-03T00:20:58Z cracauer: right, I need to check whether this is a new GC or my current one
2014-06-03T00:21:33Z stassats: are you using sb-qshow?
2014-06-03T00:21:48Z cracauer: I guess not?
2014-06-03T00:22:16Z cracauer: I thought I did but it doesn't show up, must have fatfingered
2014-06-03T00:22:47Z stassats: it's a build feature, then you can set SBCL_DYNDEBUG=all and see all kinds of things
2014-06-03T00:23:14Z cracauer: I activated the build but it seems I lost the env var at some point
2014-06-03T00:23:33Z stassats: SBCL_DYNDEBUG is a run-time option
2014-06-03T00:23:57Z cracauer: it looks like the crash happens in this GC, not in a new one
2014-06-03T00:24:34Z cracauer: it is in the newspace scan
2014-06-03T00:25:55Z jsnell: is it the same call to garabage_collect_generation() as well, or just same call to the GC in general?
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2014-06-03T00:26:20Z cracauer: GCing gen 0 works
2014-06-03T00:26:40Z cracauer: then gen 1 fails in newspace scanning, before it reaches wiping
2014-06-03T00:26:51Z cracauer: so the wiping from 0 did the damage
2014-06-03T00:27:12Z jsnell: and the vector is in gen 0?
2014-06-03T00:27:45Z cracauer: yes
2014-06-03T00:27:52Z stassats: and can't (loop with a of-type nil return a) for now, since i can't distinguish between supplied and not
2014-06-03T00:27:55Z cracauer: and as part of the wipe I then put it into newspace
2014-06-03T00:27:56Z stassats: i guess it's less common than (and fixnum string)
2014-06-03T00:28:17Z stassats: can't warn, that is
2014-06-03T00:28:54Z cracauer: so the page that we would normally move to newspace right away gets treated as either from_space or not during GC. And in the end put in newspace
2014-06-03T00:36:39Z cracauer: jsnell, I think the problem is that I end up wiping one of those pages that I bailed out of treating for now
2014-06-03T00:36:40Z jsnell: hm, hm. so one debugging option would be to check what happens in scav_vector for this vector when GCing gen 0
2014-06-03T00:36:54Z cracauer: it has multiple pointers to it, so I treat it like in the current code
2014-06-03T00:36:59Z cracauer: that is the page the vector is in
2014-06-03T00:37:05Z cracauer: so the vector is never scavenged out
2014-06-03T00:37:14Z cracauer: but apparently it still gets wiped, somehow
2014-06-03T00:37:22Z jsnell: no! the vector is not getting wiped
2014-06-03T00:37:34Z cracauer: sorry
2014-06-03T00:37:43Z jsnell: if it was, the it'd not be pointing to the now-wiped hash table :-)
2014-06-03T00:37:44Z cracauer: the hashtable struct fields
2014-06-03T00:38:47Z cracauer: but the wiping code prints every page it wipes and says it didn't touch it
2014-06-03T00:42:18Z jsnell: that'd certainly explain it
2014-06-03T00:43:07Z cracauer: I wish that diff was smaller
2014-06-03T00:43:09Z cracauer: cough
2014-06-03T00:43:21Z stassats: :HASH-TABLE-PARALLEL-READERS decided to hang on me
2014-06-03T00:44:17Z stassats: scymtym: the test is sharp-minused and empty types now produce warnings (except for the empty type itself...)
2014-06-03T00:45:03Z jsnell: if from_conservatively_pointed_to is such that from_space_p doesn't think the object is special, the first call to scav_vector wouldn't cause the hash table struct pointed to from the vector to be relocated
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2014-06-03T00:50:34Z cracauer: why not?
2014-06-03T00:50:48Z cracauer: if it doesn't think it is special it should be treated as before, without the fix
2014-06-03T00:52:01Z cracauer: Do you mean that it is that a problem wrt pointing into the middle of that vector, not at the beginning?
2014-06-03T00:55:08Z jsnell: is from_space_p_internal really correct?
2014-06-03T00:55:28Z jsnell: I would've expected there to be a case for conservatively_pointed_to == -1
2014-06-03T00:55:37Z jsnell: to return 0
2014-06-03T00:55:58Z cracauer: that shouldn't matter since the == -1 case would then see the page in new_space
2014-06-03T00:56:13Z cracauer: and then space_matches_p above would fail
2014-06-03T00:56:17Z cracauer: but I'll add a panic()
2014-06-03T00:58:00Z jsnell: so what I meant above is that if some code is clearing the page containing the hash table struct even though your debug information claims it's not being cleared, that'd certainly explain why the pointer in the vector (on a different page) isn't updated correctly
2014-06-03T00:58:22Z jsnell: since the criteria for clearing the page and the criteria for updating pointers to objects on a pinned page should match
2014-06-03T00:58:31Z cracauer: yes, absolutely
2014-06-03T00:59:09Z jsnell: and then the question becomes just one of figuring out what rogue process ends up clearing the page anyway
2014-06-03T01:00:08Z cracauer: so, around the error message. what is wiped/zero is *(where[2])
2014-06-03T01:00:54Z cracauer: where[2] is in my case 0x100406b153
2014-06-03T01:01:57Z cracauer: that is actually *not* in a page with conservative root pointing to it, neither handled nor unhandeled
2014-06-03T01:04:21Z cracauer: actually it is. Sorry, hard to read
2014-06-03T01:04:29Z cracauer: it is a page I give up on
2014-06-03T01:06:02Z cracauer: It is right after one I do wipe
2014-06-03T01:06:18Z cracauer: oh *(*#
2014-06-03T01:07:08Z cracauer: mixed up bytes and words for the upper limit of the wiping
2014-06-03T01:07:42Z cracauer: allright, that is fixed
2014-06-03T01:07:56Z jsnell: yay
2014-06-03T01:07:58Z cracauer: now I have invalid next_vector 306becf
2014-06-03T01:08:14Z cracauer: thanks
2014-06-03T01:08:25Z cracauer: let me send you an updated diff even if you don't need it
2014-06-03T01:10:04Z cracauer: well, I'm turning in for today. That was a real fix.
2014-06-03T01:10:07Z cracauer: Thanks so much!
2014-06-03T01:10:09Z cracauer: both of you
2014-06-03T01:10:24Z jsnell: time for me to do that as well. good night :-)
2014-06-03T01:10:31Z cracauer: good night
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2014-06-03T02:50:12Z scymtym: stassats: thanks for the fix; should be built and tested in a few hours
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2014-06-03T08:47:22Z scymtym: minion: memo for stassats: loop.pure:of-type-character still seems broken on -sb-unicode, but differently. previously: "The assertion (TYPEP (LOOP WITH A OF-TYPE EXTENDED-CHAR RETURN A) 'EXTENDED-CHAR) failed with (LOOP WITH A OF-TYPE EXTENDED-CHAR RETURN A) = 0.0." now: "The assertion (TYPEP (LOOP WITH A OF-TYPE EXTENDED-CHAR RETURN A) 'EXTENDED-CHAR) failed with (LOOP WITH A OF-TYPE EXTENDED-CHAR RETURN A) = NIL."
2014-06-03T08:47:22Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell stassats when he/she/it next speaks.
2014-06-03T08:47:22Z scymtym: https://ci.cor-lab.org/job/sbcl-master/featureset=3,label=ubuntu_trusty_64bit/514/consoleFull. should the reader conditional in loop.pure.lisp be #+sb-unicode?
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2014-06-03T14:33:34Z Krystof: erikvarga: are you there?
2014-06-03T14:34:10Z erikvarga: I'm here, you can call me on skype
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2014-06-03T14:44:33Z nyef: G'morning all.
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2014-06-03T15:03:34Z slyrus: morning nyef
2014-06-03T15:04:34Z Krystof: yo yo hut
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2014-06-03T15:17:09Z krzysz00: Krystof: I've optimized normalization a bit by using the quick check properties to prevent extra normalization.
2014-06-03T15:18:50Z Krystof: very nice :)
2014-06-03T15:18:55Z Krystof: where's your tree?
2014-06-03T15:20:02Z Krystof: aha, found it
2014-06-03T15:21:13Z krzysz00: Do you have any suggestions for Unicode-related things that need doing?
2014-06-03T15:22:32Z Krystof: I think the big one is probably normalization of external formats
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2014-06-03T15:37:03Z foom: I was confused by the email thread: why doesn't it make sense to normalize un||quoted symbols?
2014-06-03T15:37:19Z foom: (just like they're case-converted)
2014-06-03T15:42:26Z nyef: Does the confusable list include Il1 as a set of confusables?
2014-06-03T15:45:04Z Krystof: foom: I haven't properly thought it through myself yet
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2014-06-03T15:45:20Z krzysz00: nyef: Yes it does, it also includes | in that same set.
2014-06-03T15:45:50Z Krystof: I think (intern <string>) can't normalize, and the external format can normalize, both uncontroversially
2014-06-03T15:46:10Z Krystof: whether the reader/tokenizer can normalize is an interesting one
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2014-06-03T15:47:48Z krzysz00: Normalization doesn't violate 2.3.6 if we print (not NF(C|D)-p) things with bars (only way to get those would be INTERN (or maybe a readtable setting?))
2014-06-03T15:47:55Z krzysz00: I think.
2014-06-03T15:47:58Z foom: I'd say it seems like a bad idea to normalize in an external format.
2014-06-03T15:49:08Z krzysz00: Yeah, sort of does. (AFAIK, no one else does that.)
2014-06-03T15:50:55Z krzysz00: However, normalizing symbols seems like a good idea.
2014-06-03T15:51:04Z krzysz00: The mig question is wthich form?
2014-06-03T15:52:22Z krzysz00: *big
2014-06-03T15:55:58Z krzysz00: NFD sometimes causes wierd stuff to happen with fonts that didn't realize it would happen.
2014-06-03T15:56:23Z foom: might be useful to look at other prior art
2014-06-03T15:57:25Z foom: e.g. http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3131/
2014-06-03T16:00:46Z krzysz00: I think one of the Unicode annexes says NFKC for case-insensitive and NFC for case-sensitive.
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2014-06-03T16:11:04Z nyef: So, I've got a variation on bug 1255782 that's worse, in a way: Wrap the example in a BLOCK and replace the invalid call with a RETURN-FROM. It's now VALID code that dumps into an infinite loop. Same underlying bug, of course.
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2014-06-03T16:15:41Z slyrus: pkhuong: any ETA for the array-rank stuff landing?
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2014-06-03T16:27:22Z stassats: would #\" reader macro normalize things?
2014-06-03T16:28:08Z krzysz00: Is that defined?
2014-06-03T16:28:29Z stassats: i'm saying, if #\" doesn't normalize, then intern shouldn't either
2014-06-03T16:29:19Z stassats: i expect (equal (string (intern x)) x) to return T
2014-06-03T16:29:37Z krzysz00: INTERN doesn't case-convert, so it probably shouldn't normalize either.
2014-06-03T16:30:10Z pkhuong: slyrus: end of week?
2014-06-03T16:30:22Z stassats: i actually don't want any normalization with no request
2014-06-03T16:30:23Z krzysz00: The reader, on the other hand, does mangle takens alread, so there's something resembling precedent for normalizing symbols that are read in.
2014-06-03T16:30:52Z stassats: case conversion is hardly mangling and it can be disabled
2014-06-03T16:31:36Z krzysz00: Maybe mangle is the wrong word, more like the reader transforms strings before interning them.
2014-06-03T16:31:52Z krzysz00: Could do the same with normalization (make it disableable)
2014-06-03T16:32:19Z stassats: that is both clear cut and expected
2014-06-03T16:32:25Z stassats: i'd rather make it enablable
2014-06-03T16:32:52Z stassats: really, how many people enter non-normalzied symbols in their code and expect it to be normalized?
2014-06-03T16:33:00Z stassats: many avoid anything beyond ASCII
2014-06-03T16:33:30Z stassats: and again, if somebody depends on that behaviour, that code will become unportable
2014-06-03T16:34:22Z stassats: or if somebody unknowingly accidentally gets a working program, but it fails on a different setup
2014-06-03T16:34:52Z stassats: so, i'm for explicitly declaring the desire for any fancy transforms
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2014-06-03T16:38:27Z krzysz00: Do you expect (eql 'fl 'fl) => T ? (Let's say you got that first symbol from copy-paste out of a PDF where TeX got fancy, which seems like the most likely scenario).
2014-06-03T16:38:52Z stassats: i expect it to be false
2014-06-03T16:39:52Z stassats: luckily, emacs doesn't recognize ligatures  and the two are clearly different
2014-06-03T16:40:22Z stassats: who would want ligatures in their code? what next? initials?
2014-06-03T16:40:54Z slyrus: pkhuong: great! thanks!
2014-06-03T16:42:40Z alpha-: (λ () (...))
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2014-06-03T16:45:23Z Krystof: so I don't care about K normalization
2014-06-03T16:45:26Z stassats: (asdf:load-system 'cffi)
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2014-06-03T16:46:32Z Krystof: but I do think there's a case that é and é should represent the same symbol
2014-06-03T16:47:12Z krzysz00: More importantly, (eql '浪 '浪) ?=> T I say it should, we'd have to normalize (there's issues with compatibility ideographs) to make it so.
2014-06-03T16:47:17Z Krystof: modulo my failure to paste properly
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2014-06-03T16:52:47Z krzysz00: Did I miss anything after "... failure to paste properly" in my internet glitch?
2014-06-03T16:53:22Z stassats: no
2014-06-03T16:53:23Z nyef: No, you didn't.
2014-06-03T16:53:52Z stassats: Krystof: and strings?
2014-06-03T16:54:12Z krzysz00: Strings probably ought to be left alone, IMO.
2014-06-03T16:54:22Z Krystof: given that we provide operators for explicit normalization, I'm content with not messing with strings
2014-06-03T16:54:41Z Krystof: the CL string type has to be undestood as sequence-of-codepoints under that interpretation, but there you go
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2014-06-03T16:54:50Z krzysz00: Yeah, what he said.
2014-06-03T16:54:52Z stassats: why not make symbol normalization explicit too?
2014-06-03T16:55:41Z krzysz00: We could later define a Unicode string type, which could, if we want it to, be understood as sequence-of-graphemes or something like that.
2014-06-03T16:56:07Z Krystof: stassats: I'm OK with it being explicit, but I think it should default to on
2014-06-03T16:56:49Z krzysz00: IMO, in 99% of cases, having symbols normalize gives the results the user expects.
2014-06-03T16:57:08Z krzysz00: (See, the whole compatibility/unified ideograph mess.)
2014-06-03T16:57:22Z stassats: if i know about, i can disable it, but is it discoverable?
2014-06-03T16:57:25Z stassats: do filesystems normalize file names?
2014-06-03T16:58:23Z krzysz00: HFS+ normalizes to one of the D forms.
2014-06-03T16:59:08Z Krystof: yes, filesystems normalize file names
2014-06-03T16:59:13Z Krystof: and no, you can't turn it off
2014-06-03T16:59:14Z krzysz00: (Almost.)
2014-06-03T17:00:01Z Krystof: for the sake of argument
2014-06-03T17:03:55Z stassats: all that means (equal (string (intern x)) x) can be NIL
2014-06-03T17:05:08Z brown`: File systems do not have consistent behavior.
2014-06-03T17:05:38Z brown`: Unix paths are octets, not characters, so there's no normalization.
2014-06-03T17:06:32Z stassats: either everything should be normalized by default, or nothing
2014-06-03T17:06:41Z krzysz00: Well, INTERN wouldn't normalize, but (as it arleady is) (equal (string (read-from-string x)) x) => NIL sometmise
2014-06-03T17:07:39Z krzysz00: As I understand it, (INTERN str) is almost equivalent to (read-from-string "|str|")
2014-06-03T17:07:52Z stassats: i don't see what makes symbols so special
2014-06-03T17:08:22Z stassats: if you expect  (eq 'é 'é), then you might as well expect #\é to be accepted and be eql to #\é
2014-06-03T17:13:22Z stassats: named-readtables got broken again?
2014-06-03T17:13:26Z stassats: or rather, redtables
2014-06-03T17:19:21Z krzysz00: Symbols are special because we're the final authority on what makes them equal to each other, unlike with strings, where users can have different ideas about "Are these strings equal?" depending on what they're doing.
2014-06-03T17:20:30Z krzysz00: Also, if we ever end up with "Unicode strings" (which, as I'm currently envisioning them, are vectors-of-graphemes) both forms of é would be equal.
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2014-06-03T17:59:31Z pkhuong: brown`: doesn't stop OS X from normalising.
2014-06-03T17:59:48Z pkhuong: brown`: but you did say unix ;)
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2014-06-03T18:27:36Z brown`: pkhuong: For OS X you may possibly get different bahaviors based on the file system type, Unix vs. HFS.
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2014-06-03T18:37:57Z foom: normalization is part of HFS+, not OSX.
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2014-06-03T19:11:14Z krzysz00: Normalization seems tricky to integrate into the reader right now, since normalizing can change string length, which would render the escpaes list invalid.
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2014-06-03T22:38:10Z cracauer: hey
2014-06-03T22:38:21Z cracauer: the (sizetab[])() functions
2014-06-03T22:38:35Z cracauer: do they take a native_pointer(lispobj) or a lispobj?
2014-06-03T22:39:23Z pkhuong: cracauer: untagged pointer
2014-06-03T22:39:44Z cracauer: ok, got that correctly
2014-06-03T22:39:57Z cracauer: so my fixes make it through 2 full GCs but then bomb
2014-06-03T22:40:17Z cracauer: in a context where the lisp debugger tried to print something but chokes since the object turned unprintable :-)
2014-06-03T22:40:44Z cracauer: I have a gut feeling that I have one of these two problems:
2014-06-03T22:40:55Z cracauer: 1) bytes != work != dword, I mixed that up before
2014-06-03T22:41:05Z cracauer: 2) lispobj versus native_pointer
2014-06-03T22:41:57Z cracauer: the size of my conservatively pointed to objects is 6, 8, and 130
2014-06-03T22:42:07Z cracauer: I guess I should print some interesting things about them
2014-06-03T22:43:35Z cracauer: hold on
2014-06-03T22:43:50Z cracauer: if I have stored my pointer after it went through native_pointer()
2014-06-03T22:44:08Z cracauer: that makes me unable to correctly get the lowtag or widetag, no?
2014-06-03T22:45:13Z stassats: you can still get the wide
2014-06-03T22:45:14Z stassats: tag
2014-06-03T22:45:18Z pkhuong: lowtag, for sure. widetag, depends on which one you need.
2014-06-03T22:45:35Z pkhuong: the one in the header or the immediate's?
2014-06-03T22:46:28Z cracauer: I am trying to get the tag of the object pointed to conservatively
2014-06-03T22:46:39Z cracauer: it looks like I can get the widetag successfully
2014-06-03T22:46:49Z cracauer: 89 and 189, that looks about right
2014-06-03T22:46:59Z cracauer: instance and array
2014-06-03T22:47:08Z cracauer: and the array is the big one
2014-06-03T22:49:20Z cracauer: could somebody review the function that I use during the page wipe, the one that finds out the upper and lower boundaries of the object to be protected?
2014-06-03T22:49:41Z cracauer: I had bytes/words screwups in there before
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2014-06-03T23:19:20Z jsnell: cracauer: the version you posted yesterday seemed to have to instances of byte/word confusion in do_the_wipe. you fixed them both?
2014-06-03T23:19:39Z cracauer: yes, I fixed two
2014-06-03T23:19:46Z cracauer: size= had one
2014-06-03T23:19:49Z cracauer: and the for loop
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2014-06-03T23:21:54Z jsnell: ok. don't think there's a third one. that code seems fine, as long as no page boundaries are crossed (which I guess is ensured elsewhere)
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2014-06-03T23:23:01Z cracauer: I think I'll sleep over it and it might be obvious tomorrow.
2014-06-03T23:23:13Z cracauer: If you are looking at it I should probably send you the current copy?
2014-06-03T23:23:19Z cracauer: it does 2 GCs
2014-06-03T23:23:21Z cracauer: in a row!
2014-06-03T23:23:30Z stassats: full?
2014-06-03T23:23:43Z cracauer: yeah
2014-06-03T23:23:52Z cracauer: although that seems to not be the problem
2014-06-03T23:24:02Z cracauer: it crashes later when the lisp kicks back in
2014-06-03T23:24:13Z cracauer: you can noddle around all day long inside the GC
2014-06-03T23:24:25Z jsnell: a newer version won't hurt, though I'm not really looking at it that actively :-)
2014-06-03T23:25:20Z cracauer: that's what I understood, but no reason to have a known-broken state
2014-06-03T23:25:42Z cracauer: I guess I will have to hack up the Lisp part to then cut into the error-on-error problem
2014-06-03T23:25:53Z cracauer: unless I find problems in the GC patches
2014-06-03T23:26:10Z stassats: what about stack zeroing upon function returns? is that considered?
2014-06-03T23:26:36Z stassats: is that considered as a part of the project
2014-06-03T23:26:39Z cracauer: why would I have to take that into account?
2014-06-03T23:27:05Z pkhuong: cracauer: it'd help reduce conservatism
2014-06-03T23:27:28Z cracauer: why would the thing scan parts of the stack we already returned from?
2014-06-03T23:27:57Z stassats: for new function calls it will receive the same stack
2014-06-03T23:29:24Z cracauer: so it will always scan the full extent of the stack regardless of how far it is used?
2014-06-03T23:29:38Z stassats: only up to the stack pointer
2014-06-03T23:30:11Z stassats: and i guess waiting for the return is too long, zeroing needs to be as soon as the value stop being live
2014-06-03T23:30:57Z cracauer: well I will look into that later
2014-06-03T23:31:14Z cracauer: for now I would be so happy to kill at least some of those page residents I am after
2014-06-03T23:31:24Z stassats: and that will affect a precise gc too
2014-06-03T23:32:04Z pkhuong: stassats: it could be interesting to insert code to clear out the stack when a value becomes dead.
2014-06-03T23:32:09Z pkhuong: at the end of each bblock, for example.
2014-06-03T23:32:15Z pkhuong: we already have all that info too.
2014-06-03T23:32:36Z cracauer: hmmm, I wonder how many of my conservative roots are then valid in the first place
2014-06-03T23:32:44Z stassats: registers too
2014-06-03T23:33:15Z cracauer: well the registers should be gone by the next gc
2014-06-03T23:33:58Z stassats: no, i mean registers can be zeroed too, once they go dead
2014-06-03T23:34:18Z cracauer: yeah but they wouldn't nail down a root to a tree of garbage for long
2014-06-03T23:34:30Z jsnell: pkhuong: if you're going that way, wouldn't it make more sense to just have accurate stack maps?
2014-06-03T23:35:25Z jsnell: the problem there has always been reliable stacktracing
2014-06-03T23:35:40Z stassats: safepoints solve that
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2014-06-03T23:36:50Z jsnell: right, it's only a problem if you're not willing to tolerate any runtime / code size penalty. but if we're talking of explicitly zeroing stack slots after use, that probably isn't a concern :-)
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2014-06-03T23:43:25Z cracauer: well I'm checking out for today
2014-06-03T23:43:33Z cracauer: stassats, any interest in the diff so far?
2014-06-03T23:43:51Z stassats: is it compilable?
2014-06-03T23:44:01Z stassats: i may run it and poke holes in it
2014-06-03T23:44:02Z cracauer: yes but needs a bit older sbcl
2014-06-03T23:44:11Z cracauer: 1.1.9.3
2014-06-03T23:44:16Z stassats: i can get that
2014-06-03T23:44:34Z cracauer: want to message me your email address?
2014-06-03T23:45:04Z stassats: yeah, the one that shows up in git log
2014-06-03T23:45:44Z stassats: and can you remind me the hash of 1.1.9.3
2014-06-03T23:46:25Z stassats: .3 is easy, so, 8fb553e9d867f6345932beaa78fcd07d8d4e555b?
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2014-06-03T23:49:17Z cracauer: I'm not quite sure, I'm hidden behind a git tree that has that as an import
2014-06-03T23:49:21Z cracauer: hold sec
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2014-06-03T23:56:09Z stassats: the one above is 1.1.9.3
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2014-06-03T23:56:54Z oleo__: morning
2014-06-03T23:57:02Z cracauer: yes, if I read this correctly you need 8fb553e9d867f6345932beaa78fcd07d8d4e555b  as the parent
2014-06-03T23:57:15Z stassats: but i don't have a Makefile file
2014-06-03T23:57:38Z cracauer: yeah, the is a bit if ITA diff but it shouldn't affect any of the GC files
2014-06-03T23:58:32Z stassats: there are some failed hunks in gencgc.c
2014-06-03T23:58:51Z stassats: some succeed with offset -6 lines
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2014-06-03T23:59:39Z cracauer: yeah there is an unused function on the top of gencgc.c
2014-06-03T23:59:51Z cracauer: I posted that diff before but I can send a copy
2014-06-03T23:59:52Z cracauer: brb
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2014-06-04T00:02:42Z cracauer: I think the critical bits are in do_the_wipe, establishing the boundaries of the objects to be protected
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2014-06-04T00:03:12Z cracauer: and the bookkeeping of who points where and possible *lispobj/native_pointer mixups
2014-06-04T00:05:34Z stassats: and 1.1.9.3 can't be built by a -sb-unicode sbcl
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2014-06-04T00:05:52Z cracauer: yeah I had that problem, too
2014-06-04T00:07:02Z cracauer: stassats, if you want to play with it I'm happy to port my fixes diff to devhead and send you one tomorrow
2014-06-04T00:07:13Z cracauer: no reason you get hung up on the old one
2014-06-04T00:07:26Z stassats: if this one builds, i'm fine with playing with it
2014-06-04T00:07:44Z stassats: i, of course, have a #+sb-unincode sbcl too
2014-06-04T00:07:57Z cracauer: I wish I didn't :)
2014-06-04T00:08:05Z stassats: Memory fault at fffffff9 (pc=0x100220c2f5, sp=0x7ffff70bf5e0)
2014-06-04T00:08:09Z cracauer: I have a suspicion it is a bad idea for us
2014-06-04T00:08:21Z stassats: that's in cold-init
2014-06-04T00:08:36Z stassats: is that what you see?
2014-06-04T00:08:37Z cracauer: are you using slam.sh?
2014-06-04T00:08:49Z stassats: not for that build, why?
2014-06-04T00:08:53Z cracauer: no, what I see is no clear error message. It re-enters lisp but then fails
2014-06-04T00:09:13Z cracauer: I was just curious. I prepared with build.sh using the unpatched sbcl
2014-06-04T00:09:19Z cracauer: then slam.sh to test the diffs
2014-06-04T00:09:26Z cracauer: shouldn't make a difference
2014-06-04T00:09:45Z cracauer: anyway, the Lisp tried to go into the debugger but gets into the loop of unprintable object
2014-06-04T00:10:29Z cracauer: Next gc when 484653625 bytes have been consed
2014-06-04T00:10:29Z cracauer: *
2014-06-04T00:10:29Z cracauer: 10
2014-06-04T00:10:29Z cracauer: *
2014-06-04T00:10:29Z cracauer: 5
2014-06-04T00:10:30Z cracauer: *
2014-06-04T00:10:32Z cracauer: T
2014-06-04T00:10:34Z cracauer: *
2014-06-04T00:10:36Z cracauer: *COMPILE-FILES-P*
2014-06-04T00:10:38Z cracauer: * (A SB-FORMAT:FORMAT-ERROR was caught when trying to print *DEBUG-CONDITION*
2014-06-04T00:10:42Z cracauer: when entering the debugger. Printing was aborted and the SB-FORMAT:FORMAT-ERROR
2014-06-04T00:10:44Z cracauer: was stored in SB-DEBUG::*NESTED-DEBUG-CONDITION*.)
2014-06-04T00:10:48Z stassats: ok, that's not cold init then, that's make-target-2
2014-06-04T00:10:57Z cracauer: right
2014-06-04T00:12:40Z cracauer: slam.sh does not do make-host-2
2014-06-04T00:12:40Z stassats: so, the memory fault is at -7
2014-06-04T00:13:04Z stassats: which is as if someone took a 0 and thought it were an other pointer
2014-06-04T00:13:10Z cracauer: and the pc address seems to be lisp heap
2014-06-04T00:14:18Z stassats: old ldb is still living in the 32-bit world, it's actually 0xfffffffffffffff9, which is -7, i was confused there for a while
2014-06-04T00:14:40Z cracauer: let me see what I get when I don't use slam
2014-06-04T00:15:32Z stassats: well, for me, printing anything ends up at -7
2014-06-04T00:15:48Z stassats: or evaluating
2014-06-04T00:18:12Z cracauer: (+ 1 1) works for me
2014-06-04T00:18:24Z stassats: and (list)?
2014-06-04T00:18:39Z cracauer: yes
2014-06-04T00:18:46Z stassats: well, neither for me
2014-06-04T00:19:18Z cracauer: doing anything invoking the debugger will have the debugger fail
2014-06-04T00:19:41Z cracauer: is there anything in the cold core that would allow me to start gc by hand?
2014-06-04T00:19:55Z cracauer: sb-ext isn't there
2014-06-04T00:20:00Z stassats: gdb suggests that the failure is in SB!IMPL::FIND-SYMBOL*
2014-06-04T00:20:15Z stassats: which is consistent, since evaluating 1 is fine
2014-06-04T00:20:38Z cracauer: 'foo works
2014-06-04T00:20:40Z cracauer: foo does not
2014-06-04T00:20:44Z cracauer: looks like it
2014-06-04T00:20:49Z stassats: "a" is fine, '(1) is fine, so, it's find-symbol*
2014-06-04T00:21:26Z cracauer: why would find-symbol* go over my newly 0-wiped page parts?
2014-06-04T00:22:43Z cracauer: oh, hashtables
2014-06-04T00:23:46Z stassats: the fault is at mov rsi,QWORD PTR [rcx-0x7]
2014-06-04T00:24:04Z cracauer: I think what I will do tomorrow is write some code that verifies that the hashtables are OK, and how long they stay that way during wiping
2014-06-04T00:24:09Z stassats: and RCX is from QWORD PTR [rax+0xd]
2014-06-04T00:24:48Z stassats: and rax is [rbp-0x50]-0x35
2014-06-04T00:24:58Z stassats: so, from something pointing from the stack
2014-06-04T00:26:09Z cracauer: oh
2014-06-04T00:26:25Z cracauer: so the problem is that I insufficiently protect what was pointed to from the stack
2014-06-04T00:27:00Z stassats: the sequence is quite strange as a whole
2014-06-04T00:27:05Z cracauer: is that directly pointed or at an offset after the location pointed to from the stack?
2014-06-04T00:27:11Z cracauer: directly, right?
2014-06-04T00:27:24Z stassats: there are multiple load and stores, let me backtrack
2014-06-04T00:29:38Z stassats: ok, so [rbp-0x50] is pointing to the package
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2014-06-04T00:34:27Z cracauer: brb
2014-06-04T00:36:06Z stassats: so, it's failing at (length (package-hashtable-table (package-internal-symbols package)))
2014-06-04T00:36:11Z stassats: package-hashtable-table returns 0
2014-06-04T00:38:23Z stassats: make that package-hashtable-hash
2014-06-04T00:42:31Z cracauer: thanks!
2014-06-04T00:42:50Z cracauer: tomorrow I will explicitly track what is happening to that hashtable
2014-06-04T00:43:01Z stassats: does it still not crash for you?
2014-06-04T00:43:06Z cracauer: but this isn't pointed to from the stack
2014-06-04T00:43:15Z cracauer: yes, I have the same error from make.sh and slam.sh
2014-06-04T00:43:56Z cracauer: oh
2014-06-04T00:44:06Z stassats: that whole hashtable is zeros
2014-06-04T00:44:07Z cracauer: no, I don't get the initial segfault with clear message
2014-06-04T00:44:19Z cracauer: do you have the address of the table
2014-06-04T00:44:26Z stassats: 0x1002eb0203
2014-06-04T00:44:41Z cracauer: does that match any of the pages mentioned in the debug printfs?
2014-06-04T00:44:48Z cracauer: "not wiping" style messages
2014-06-04T00:45:38Z cracauer: those messages give the whole page and the protected area, the rest will be zeroed
2014-06-04T00:46:39Z stassats: 0x1002eb0360-0x1002eb03e0 is closest i can find
2014-06-04T00:47:40Z stassats: so, 0x1002eb0203 seems to be wiped out
2014-06-04T00:47:48Z stassats: it certainly does look the part
2014-06-04T00:48:36Z cracauer: that is the page right before
2014-06-04T00:48:42Z cracauer: suspicious
2014-06-04T00:49:17Z stassats: the whole line is
2014-06-04T00:49:19Z stassats: Cra26d: not wiping 0x1002eb0360-0x1002eb03e0 size 16 words in page 1494 0x1002eb0000-0x1002eb8000 wipeobj 0x0
2014-06-04T00:49:43Z cracauer: oh, so it is in that page
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2014-06-04T00:50:36Z cracauer: so, what is happening is that it deliberately wiping this out
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2014-06-04T00:50:53Z cracauer: because as far as the wiping code is concerned, this have been scavenged and moved out
2014-06-04T00:51:12Z cracauer: and I know that works for most objects because I see the forwarding pointers left in there
2014-06-04T00:51:20Z cracauer: but for hashtables I seem to miss a step
2014-06-04T00:51:37Z stassats: packages use their own hashtables
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2014-06-04T00:52:13Z cracauer: and how are they scavenged and moved, if at all?
2014-06-04T00:53:42Z stassats: looks just like a structure with pointers
2014-06-04T00:53:55Z cracauer: can I easily recognize it so that I don't wipe?
2014-06-04T00:54:09Z stassats: don't think so
2014-06-04T00:54:39Z cracauer: I wonder what regular scavenge does when it come across it
2014-06-04T00:54:52Z cracauer: I can't see special code in gc-common for it
2014-06-04T00:55:45Z cracauer: it is just a bunch of regular Lisp array and things
2014-06-04T00:56:12Z cracauer: so either it did not get moved out
2014-06-04T00:56:32Z cracauer: or I skip a step where somebody adjusts the pointers to it via the forwarding pointers that I wipe out
2014-06-04T00:56:49Z stassats: it's just a structure, nothing special
2014-06-04T00:57:12Z stassats: no rehashing or anything
2014-06-04T00:57:42Z cracauer: I must cut off somebody from following the forwarding pointers in "my" pages
2014-06-04T00:58:02Z cracauer: s/following/adjusting_based_on/
2014-06-04T00:58:30Z cracauer: oh but I do
2014-06-04T01:02:34Z cracauer: ok, I have to go home, people waiting
2014-06-04T01:03:11Z cracauer: I can record whether the stuff in front of my conservatively pointed to locations was indeed scavenged
2014-06-04T01:03:56Z cracauer: stassats, I think I see the problem
2014-06-04T01:04:01Z stassats: for some gdb says RBP-80 is 0x02eb0363
2014-06-04T01:04:07Z cracauer: look for "pretending this isn't newspace"
2014-06-04T01:04:18Z cracauer: it doesn't mention all our pages
2014-06-04T01:04:25Z stassats: but the page is around 0x1002eb0360
2014-06-04T01:04:32Z stassats: where did 0x10 go?
2014-06-04T01:04:50Z stassats: maybe it just prints 32 bits
2014-06-04T01:05:03Z cracauer: yeah, I noticed that all over
2014-06-04T01:05:19Z cracauer: in sbcl output
2014-06-04T01:05:32Z cracauer: maybe something truncates to 32 bits in the heap
2014-06-04T01:06:01Z stassats: that's from gdb, sbcl is broken indeed because it uses %x in printf
2014-06-04T01:06:12Z stassats: that seems to have been fixed recently
2014-06-04T01:07:00Z cracauer: I wouldn't be too surprised if I pass a Lisp pointer through an int somewhere
2014-06-04T01:07:08Z stassats: ok, x/g 0x7ffff6f37710-80 => 0x7ffff6f376c0: 0x0000001002eb0363
2014-06-04T01:07:36Z stassats: that would be COMMON-LISP-USER
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2014-06-04T01:09:15Z stassats: well, it has wiped out nicknames, use-list and tables slots too
2014-06-04T01:09:27Z stassats: internal-symbols and external-symbols are wiped out too
2014-06-04T01:09:45Z stassats: as in, the list slots are (0 . 0), and the -symbols are #<ptr to 0x00000000 instance>
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2014-06-04T01:10:48Z cracauer: I still think I must do the wipe at some point in time where forwarding pointers were placed and then I don't run the code that would adjust other pointers based on them
2014-06-04T01:10:57Z stassats: not wiping 0x1002eb0360-0x1002eb03e0 size 16 words, and that would be the 0x0000001002eb0363
2014-06-04T01:11:05Z stassats: so, not wiping is the COMMON-LISP-USER package
2014-06-04T01:11:36Z stassats: the package is not wiped, but anything it points to is wiped
2014-06-04T01:12:30Z cracauer: so it points inside the protected area
2014-06-04T01:12:41Z stassats: Cra42b: pretending this isn't newspace: page 1494, pointer 0x1002eb0363 repeats several lines
2014-06-04T01:12:42Z cracauer: why would the stack point to the contents of the cl-user package?
2014-06-04T01:12:55Z stassats: the stack points to the cl-user package
2014-06-04T01:13:16Z stassats: the fact that is a stack isn't important
2014-06-04T01:13:54Z cracauer: it sounds hard to believe that I screwed up the code that first prints what it wants to protect and then does the protect
2014-06-04T01:14:15Z cracauer: if (iterator >= page_table[i].conservatively_pointed_to &&
2014-06-04T01:14:15Z cracauer:                 iterator < page_table[i].conservatively_pointed_to + size) {
2014-06-04T01:14:15Z cracauer:                 // protected
2014-06-04T01:14:15Z cracauer:                 continue;
2014-06-04T01:14:30Z cracauer: otherwise wipe
2014-06-04T01:17:50Z stassats:  0x1002eb0360 sticks from the very beginning of GC
2014-06-04T01:18:08Z stassats: so, it's being pinned down
2014-06-04T01:18:19Z stassats: but the object it points to are being erased
2014-06-04T01:20:30Z stassats: and what's up with page 1480 gen 7/7 freep 0 object 0xffffffffffffffff ?
2014-06-04T01:21:26Z cracauer: (void *)-1 is the marker that I don't want to deal with this page now
2014-06-04T01:21:35Z stassats: ok
2014-06-04T01:21:39Z cracauer: they are treated like in the old world, moved to newspace right away
2014-06-04T01:22:16Z cracauer: I just debug-printed every wipe and non-wipe. It does what it says it does
2014-06-04T01:22:25Z cracauer: it is possible that the whole page was zeroed?
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2014-06-04T01:22:44Z stassats: no, cl-user is still there
2014-06-04T01:22:54Z stassats: just not its contents
2014-06-04T01:23:06Z cracauer: but that was in the same page?
2014-06-04T01:23:11Z stassats: right
2014-06-04T01:23:20Z stassats: the not wiping is about cl-user
2014-06-04T01:23:46Z cracauer: I mean the part that is still there, is it in the same page as the part that isn't there?
2014-06-04T01:23:56Z cracauer: I thought it was pointed to from another page?
2014-06-04T01:24:35Z stassats: no, it's all in the same page, but only cl-user isn't wiped
2014-06-04T01:24:54Z cracauer: is the address before, in or after what it says is protected?
2014-06-04T01:25:38Z stassats: how would the "protected" message look like?
2014-06-04T01:26:00Z cracauer: "not wiping x-y" would be the protected area
2014-06-04T01:26:11Z cracauer: the total page boundaries would be printed in the same line
2014-06-04T01:26:18Z cracauer: everything not protected will be zeroed
2014-06-04T01:26:35Z stassats: the hash vector is just after the package
2014-06-04T01:26:45Z cracauer: Cra26d: not wiping 0x1002eb0360-0x1002eb03e0 size 16 words in page 1494 0x1002eb0000-0x1002eb8000 wipeobj 0x0
2014-06-04T01:27:34Z cracauer: so if the package itself, the part that survives, is below ...360, then that is not good either, because that shouldn't have survived
2014-06-04T01:27:46Z stassats: or the list are after the package, but all the instance/list slots are after the package
2014-06-04T01:28:24Z cracauer: I am envious that you got a segfault
2014-06-04T01:28:36Z cracauer: mine picks addresses that seem to not trigger the segfault
2014-06-04T01:28:46Z stassats: or rather, before the package, since they
2014-06-04T01:28:54Z cracauer: could you re-state the addresses for the things that survive and that don't survive?
2014-06-04T01:29:01Z stassats: since they are first allocated
2014-06-04T01:29:31Z stassats: cracauer: http://paste.lisp.org/display/142775 should make it clear
2014-06-04T01:36:42Z cracauer: so, is it that when I protect objects pointed to from stack etc...
2014-06-04T01:36:43Z stassats: so, conservatively_pointed_to is just one object? how does it decide to skip the objects that one points to?
2014-06-04T01:36:52Z cracauer: then I also need to follow the pointer
2014-06-04T01:37:01Z cracauer: to other objects that might live in the same page
2014-06-04T01:37:13Z stassats: or in another page?
2014-06-04T01:37:26Z cracauer: it's fine if it is not a concervatively pointed to page
2014-06-04T01:38:01Z cracauer: so I need to call preserve_pointer in turn on everything that I got out of a first pass
2014-06-04T01:38:34Z cracauer: alternatively, I need to make my primary pointer follow a forwarding pointer
2014-06-04T01:38:45Z cracauer: because I am allowed to move all the other stuff away
2014-06-04T01:38:54Z cracauer: the latter the probably the better solution
2014-06-04T01:39:14Z cracauer: that should actually work
2014-06-04T01:39:35Z cracauer: I can even call scavenge on it unless I overlook something
2014-06-04T01:40:49Z stassats: why didn't you just decide to make a precise GC for x86oids instead?
2014-06-04T01:41:10Z cracauer: it looked like an easy project :-)
2014-06-04T01:41:23Z cracauer: and it would save me from dealing with registers
2014-06-04T01:42:13Z cracauer: allright. Thanks so much stassats.
2014-06-04T01:42:25Z cracauer: Gotta run but that's the todo item I needed.
2014-06-04T01:42:37Z stassats: i thought you ran out of "gotta run"
2014-06-04T01:42:48Z cracauer: that's what my wife just said :-)
2014-06-04T01:43:04Z cracauer: I want this code done. The project wasn't quite as easy as I thought
2014-06-04T01:43:21Z cracauer: good night
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2014-06-04T16:18:44Z krzysz00: Krystof: Can I put literal Unicode characters in a testcase if they're behind a #+sb-unicode ?
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2014-06-04T16:23:16Z Krystof: literal like #\U+ or literal like é
2014-06-04T16:23:28Z Krystof: if the latter, not reliably (thanks to external formats)
2014-06-04T16:25:03Z krzysz00: The latter. (Good to know)
2014-06-04T16:25:31Z Krystof: if you put a literal é in a file, then you are probably using utf-8 and your locale is probably set likewise
2014-06-04T16:25:37Z Krystof: and then it will work for me, who also use utf-8
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2014-06-04T16:25:53Z Krystof: and it will fail for someone in Japan who's using UTF-16
2014-06-04T16:30:02Z nyef: Shift-JIS. (-:
2014-06-04T16:31:26Z Krystof: yeah, that
2014-06-04T16:41:49Z nyef: Or you get someone crazy enough to port to MacOS 9 (or earlier). Default external format: "macintosh".
2014-06-04T16:43:18Z krzysz00: Problem fixed, everything is a #\U literal now.
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2014-06-04T17:11:41Z krzysz00: Is there anything involved in adding a symbol defined in SB-IMPL to SB-EXT other than listing it in SB-EXT's export list?
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2014-06-04T18:20:53Z pkhuong: krzysz00: nope.
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2014-06-04T18:21:49Z krzysz00: pkhuong: Thanks. I tried it, and it worked, so I figured that was the answer.
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2014-06-04T19:25:26Z cracauer: So I am making it through cold core saving and reloading. I then get a very ugly/bigbacktrace type error in warm.lisp
2014-06-04T19:25:39Z cracauer: compiler runs
2014-06-04T19:25:57Z cracauer: as yesterday I wish I had a straight segfault
2014-06-04T19:30:15Z cracauer: defpackage fails in obscure ways
2014-06-04T19:30:27Z cracauer: I guess I should re-grovel the package hashtables
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2014-06-04T19:34:17Z krzysz00: Has someone remove sb-bsd-sockets:get-protocol-by-name and forgotten to update the manual?
2014-06-04T19:38:32Z krzysz00: krystof: There's now a controllable normalizing reader on my branch
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2014-06-04T20:57:36Z scymtym: krzysz00: sb-bsd-sockets:get-protocol-by-name has been recently modified for android in 34eab161 but doesn't seem to have been removed
2014-06-04T20:58:30Z stassats: it's modified for everything, but it wouldn't work on android otherwise
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2014-06-04T21:55:08Z krzysz00: I'm trying to write a SB-UNICODE::GET-USER-LOCALE, which needs POSIX-GETENV (which is unavailable when target-unicode.lisp is being compiled). I'm planning on putting in a stup and re-defining the function to its correct value once there's an SB-POSIX. WHere's the right place to put the redefinition?
2014-06-04T21:55:42Z stassats: redefining is a bad idea
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2014-06-04T21:56:25Z stassats: and you shouldn't call posix-getenv when it's being compiled
2014-06-04T21:57:31Z krzysz00: I was hoping to make it so that (once we're done compaling) `(sb-unicode:uppercase string :locale t) does the uppercasing taking the user's current locale into account.
2014-06-04T21:57:45Z krzysz00: Might be tricky given how compile order works.
2014-06-04T21:57:55Z stassats: you don't need to call it at the compile-time
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2014-06-04T21:59:15Z krzysz00: Yeah, I don't need to coll getenv until runtime, but I need to define a function that calls getenv before we define getenv.
2014-06-04T21:59:36Z stassats: you don't need to do anything
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2014-06-04T22:11:50Z pkhuong: you can declaim it as a function if you're worried about the style warning.
2014-06-04T22:11:50Z krzysz00: Problem is the package nonexistence, I think.
2014-06-04T22:11:51Z pkhuong: krzysz00: ah, right, sb-posix is a contrib. You don't want to depend on that in the core.
2014-06-04T22:11:51Z stassats: posix-getenv is from sb-unix
2014-06-04T22:12:43Z stassats: exported from sb-ext
2014-06-04T22:12:51Z stassats: so, no problem here
2014-06-04T22:15:33Z krzysz00: That explains it, I was looking in the wrong package for the function.
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2014-06-04T22:23:40Z krzysz00: That worked.
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2014-06-04T22:51:56Z krzysz00: Locale-detecting casing, check.
2014-06-04T22:51:56Z stassats: why are you calling getenv for detecting the locale?
2014-06-04T22:56:13Z krzysz00: I needed a language code, and (bit-before #\_ (getenv LANG)) seemed easier to do than trying to add nl_langinfo(), which, IIRC, is less portable.
2014-06-04T22:57:56Z stassats: LANG is the last variable which is examined
2014-06-04T22:59:56Z stassats: see sb-impl::default-external-format
2014-06-04T23:03:12Z krzysz00: I don't think the nl_langinfo constant to get the language tag is POSIX, though.
2014-06-04T23:10:42Z stassats: whatever it is, querying LANG won't produce consistent results
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2014-06-04T23:14:15Z krzysz00: I think that (on (or Win32 Unix)) I can rely on the end-user having LANG be "xx_STUFF" (with fallback to locale-independent casing if that's not the case.)
2014-06-04T23:15:13Z krzysz00: The only time this lookup changes behavior is in the case of "tr_*", "az_*", or "lt_*", anyhow, assuming that the casing function is called with :locale t.
2014-06-04T23:15:20Z stassats`: and if the user is using LC_ALL?
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2014-06-04T23:16:53Z krzysz00: Good point.
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2014-06-05T06:06:25Z Krystof: krzysz00: we already use nl_langinfo() in the runtime
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2014-06-05T13:06:18Z krzysz00: Krystof: My skim through google reveals that the only good way to get the user's ISO language code is to peek at environment variables.
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2014-06-05T15:36:37Z krzysz00: Anyone have any more Unicode feature suggestions? I could try and start on Unicode strings if there's not anything anyone else wants done.
2014-06-05T15:36:58Z stassats`: emoticons for error messages
2014-06-05T15:39:41Z krzysz00: Just to make sure, you're not serious, right?
2014-06-05T15:39:57Z pkhuong: emoji all the things.
2014-06-05T15:40:20Z stassats`: krzysz00: we need to make SBCL popular with the youths
2014-06-05T15:40:43Z krzysz00: Yes, of course :)
2014-06-05T15:51:17Z Krystof: internationali18zation
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2014-06-05T15:51:42Z Krystof: CEILING CAT IS WATCHING YOU TRYING TO ACCESS A NIL ARRAY
2014-06-05T15:51:52Z Krystof: (no serious suggestions :-)
2014-06-05T15:52:16Z stassats`: at least it now watches again
2014-06-05T15:54:24Z krzysz00: Clisp has quasi-gettext support floating around, I think. Might not be a bad idea to try and copy them.
2014-06-05T15:54:47Z stassats`: is there a unicode menorah? they could use it instead
2014-06-05T15:55:25Z Krystof: krzysz00: in all seriousness, one thing you could do is outreach -- ask people if they have any actual applications that some particular implementation support would help
2014-06-05T15:57:03Z krzysz00: Good idea. Might have to wait a bit, given that I'm leaving for a vacation in a week.
2014-06-05T15:59:29Z krzysz00: I'll just need to figure out where I can find people.
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2014-06-05T16:13:00Z pkhuong: krzysz00: sbcl-devel and general would probably be a good start.
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2014-06-05T16:17:09Z Krystof: comp.lang.lisp would be an interesting place, too
2014-06-05T16:17:20Z Krystof: "interesting"
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2014-06-05T16:40:39Z stassats` reads http://www.madore.org/~david/computers/connect-intr.html
2014-06-05T16:41:20Z stassats`: in a plan to make sb-bsd-sockets more interrupt safe and have timeouts
2014-06-05T16:41:52Z foom: Unfortunately, applications probably will mostly ignore sbcl's builtin support, and instead, someone will release a library that reimplements it in a slow portable fashion. And then you'll have two copies of the same thing in your binary, one that's fast but you don't use, and one that's slow that you do.
2014-06-05T16:42:18Z stassats`: people use usocket, usocket gen be updated too
2014-06-05T16:42:38Z stassats`: and this not an excuse for having broken sb-bsd-sockets
2014-06-05T16:43:51Z foom: oh sorry, I was still on the subject of unicode. :)
2014-06-05T16:44:21Z stassats`: it seems applicable for both
2014-06-05T16:44:36Z Krystof: still worth asking "what did you wish you had already implemented for you"?
2014-06-05T16:44:46Z stassats`: except for the "fast" bit
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2014-06-05T16:46:30Z Krystof: but many of the answers to my question might well be "newline handling in external formats"
2014-06-05T16:46:31Z Krystof: :-/
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2014-06-06T11:30:52Z stassats: what if i just lift the DNS resolver from iolib
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2014-06-06T13:37:01Z stassats: (map 'null #'identity '(1 2 3)) => (1 2 3) doesn't seem right
2014-06-06T13:39:08Z stassats: and it looks like i'm stumbling on a defun-cached problem with threads
2014-06-06T13:43:20Z stassats: in (map (type-of x) #'y x), map calls  specifier-type, and gets a corruption of some sort
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2014-06-06T13:49:17Z nyef: G'morning all.
2014-06-06T13:50:23Z stassats: i guess (map-into (copy-seq x) #'y x) will do
2014-06-06T13:50:55Z stassats: typecasing for list/vector will work too
2014-06-06T13:59:38Z nicdev` is now known as nicdev
2014-06-06T14:01:38Z stassats: now to figure out how values-specifier-type defune-cached got corrupted
2014-06-06T14:04:26Z stassats: and i got a lot of calls to TYPEP when the type is not yet known, that's a specifier-type nightmare
2014-06-06T14:06:56Z stassats: even if it's a class defined earlier in the file...
2014-06-06T14:09:48Z pkhuong: arm?
2014-06-06T14:09:56Z stassats: x86-64
2014-06-06T14:10:16Z pkhuong: same as mega1`'s then. No clue what's going on there, but I doubt it's in defun-cached itself.
2014-06-06T14:11:41Z stassats: i have only a log, and something fails to be a simple-vector
2014-06-06T14:11:55Z stassats: but it succeeds at being an invalid object
2014-06-06T14:12:04Z stassats: #x10B84F9F0F
2014-06-06T14:14:41Z stassats: mega1`: therep
2014-06-06T14:16:16Z stassats: i would think memory barriers, but it's x86
2014-06-06T14:19:10Z stassats: it may be a problem in INFO
2014-06-06T14:21:44Z pkhuong: mega1` reported seeing SAPs in the hash vector
2014-06-06T14:21:51Z pkhuong: each entry should be 0 or a simple-vector
2014-06-06T14:29:02Z stassats: well, i'm managing to heat up the CPU to 100°C, but not reproducing
2014-06-06T14:29:53Z pkhuong: we might finally reproduce the random heap corruption that's always plagued the OS X port.
2014-06-06T14:44:32Z stassats: i guess i need to find two types with the same sxhash and hit them hard
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2014-06-06T14:52:05Z stassats: ok, (= (logand (sxhash `(integer 292)) #x3FF) (logand (sxhash `(integer 999)) #x3FF) 666)
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2014-06-06T15:03:47Z stassats: no luck
2014-06-06T15:05:30Z stassats: and why is defun-cached using an array of 2 elements? a cons takes less space
2014-06-06T15:08:12Z pkhuong: because it's an array of n+1 elements, which happens to be 2 in your case.
2014-06-06T15:08:32Z pkhuong: you could also change the mask
2014-06-06T15:08:41Z pkhuong: so everything hashes to the same bucket.
2014-06-06T15:08:55Z stassats: i see, but it can use conses when n <= 2
2014-06-06T15:09:08Z pkhuong: sure. moar code to maintain.
2014-06-06T15:11:23Z stassats: well, no dice here, maybe i'll need to minimize it up to an array within an array and hit it
2014-06-06T15:12:29Z stassats: one code path that is insufficiently tested is when it calls alloc() for array allocation
2014-06-06T15:14:53Z stassats: can two concurrent allocs interfere with each other? give up the same memory?
2014-06-06T15:16:24Z jsnell: no
2014-06-06T15:17:02Z jsnell: every thread has a private allocation region, and the code to acquire a new region will be protected by a lock
2014-06-06T15:17:47Z pkhuong: re-entrancy bug?
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2014-06-06T15:27:12Z stassats: recreating an array, no dice
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2014-06-06T15:28:34Z stassats: i haven't tried on the actual server
2014-06-06T15:29:02Z stassats: it's AMD, after all
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2014-06-06T15:31:41Z stassats: no luck so far either
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2014-06-06T15:47:48Z stassats: i also see "no scavenge function for object 0x201 (widetag 0x1)" in the logs, probably not related
2014-06-06T15:48:27Z nyef: Umm... Heap or stack scavenge?
2014-06-06T15:48:40Z stassats: who knows
2014-06-06T15:49:17Z nyef: That's... from scav_lose()?
2014-06-06T15:50:33Z nyef: Oh dear, that IS from scavenging the heap.
2014-06-06T15:51:10Z stassats: i blamed it on bad memory, but now that i'm not the only one having problems with defun-cached, i'm rethinking it
2014-06-06T15:55:14Z stassats: and it doesn't seem to be a memory ordering issue, since the cache appears to be staying corrupted
2014-06-06T15:59:31Z stassats: now, if it were bad RAM, it wouldn't be happening only in values-specifier-type, now would it?
2014-06-06T16:00:17Z nyef: Probably not, and you'd be able to run memtest86+ or similar to rule it even less likely.
2014-06-06T16:00:38Z stassats: i don't have access to that machine
2014-06-06T16:00:48Z nyef: Okay, that's fair.
2014-06-06T16:00:59Z nyef: The other major stress-test is to build a Linux kernel. (-:
2014-06-06T16:07:28Z stassats: there's a lot of memory touched and it consitently files only when doing (specifier-type 'null)
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2014-06-06T16:20:32Z mega1`: stassats: here
2014-06-06T16:21:18Z stassats: mega1`: what was your problem with defun-cached?
2014-06-06T16:21:52Z mega1`: a SAP got into it
2014-06-06T16:22:09Z stassats: for which cached function?
2014-06-06T16:22:20Z mega1`: CTYPE-OF was one of them
2014-06-06T16:22:41Z mega1`: there were other defun-cached functions that also failed the same way
2014-06-06T16:22:54Z stassats: what hardware?
2014-06-06T16:22:59Z mega1`: x86-64
2014-06-06T16:23:04Z stassats: vendor?
2014-06-06T16:23:12Z mega1`: intel
2014-06-06T16:23:23Z mega1`: two cpus, in fact
2014-06-06T16:23:28Z stassats: ok, i have problems with specifier-type, but i can't reproduce
2014-06-06T16:23:33Z mega1`: on my laptop and desktop too
2014-06-06T16:23:42Z stassats: do you have a test case?
2014-06-06T16:23:56Z mega1`: it happens only in multithreaded code
2014-06-06T16:24:20Z stassats: sure, i got my CPU to 100° already, trying to reproduce
2014-06-06T16:24:22Z mega1`: I promised to package up a reasonably compact test case, but my attempts timed out.
2014-06-06T16:25:11Z mega1`: In the process of trimming it down the error always went away.
2014-06-06T16:25:26Z mega1`: Or not. Sometimes it takes a long time to trigger.
2014-06-06T16:25:35Z mega1` is now known as mega`
2014-06-06T16:25:42Z stassats: maybe i'll try to leave it for a while
2014-06-06T16:26:01Z mega`: I've never seen it with one thread only
2014-06-06T16:26:13Z mega`: in fact, it's running with one thread right now
2014-06-06T16:27:05Z mega`: Why don't you start a couple of threads doing the same thing?
2014-06-06T16:30:49Z mega`: oh, I see you did
2014-06-06T16:31:54Z stassats: running unbounded now
2014-06-06T16:32:09Z mega`: what's unbounded?
2014-06-06T16:32:18Z stassats: no limit
2014-06-06T16:32:24Z stassats: until it fails
2014-06-06T16:32:25Z mega`: limit for what?
2014-06-06T16:32:29Z mega`: ok
2014-06-06T16:33:05Z mega`: how many times did you manage to reproduce it?
2014-06-06T16:33:28Z stassats: in the actual code, several times
2014-06-06T16:34:06Z mega`: are you also trying to create a compact test case?
2014-06-06T16:34:24Z stassats: a test case of any size
2014-06-06T16:34:24Z mega`: Do you have a plan for debugging?
2014-06-06T16:34:41Z stassats: sure, "think hard"
2014-06-06T16:34:50Z mega`: The "actual code" doesn't qualify as a test case?
2014-06-06T16:34:59Z stassats: nope
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2014-06-06T16:35:09Z mega`: for inclusion in sbcl, surely not
2014-06-06T16:35:14Z mega`: but for debugging ...
2014-06-06T16:35:32Z mega`: And once you have a handle on the problem maybe it's easier to know how to tickle it.
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2014-06-06T18:05:19Z pkhuong: mega`: if you can bundle up a tgz, I'll try to look into it
2014-06-06T18:05:36Z mega`: yeah, I'm on it again
2014-06-06T18:05:46Z mega`: but it doesn't want to fail now ...
2014-06-06T18:07:55Z mega` checks solar activity levels
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2014-06-06T18:53:37Z mega`: The stars don't align today.
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2014-06-06T19:58:28Z mega`: I'm beginning to think this bug is gone.
2014-06-06T19:58:30Z mega`: stassats: what's your kernel version?
2014-06-06T19:58:34Z mega`: and libc?
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2014-06-06T20:01:24Z stassats: 3.5.0
2014-06-06T20:01:30Z mega`: I have upgraded to linux 3.14 since the last time this bug happened.
2014-06-06T20:01:45Z stassats: and 2.15
2014-06-06T20:03:08Z mega`: 2.18 here
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2014-06-06T20:03:51Z mega`: I'm running the previously failing code on two machines and it hasn't failed for hours.
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2014-06-06T20:19:21Z mega`: and now it fails
2014-06-06T20:19:40Z stassats: does the cache vector remain corrupted?
2014-06-06T20:19:50Z stassats: i really don't believe it's an ordering issue, but who knows
2014-06-06T20:20:12Z mega`: I saw cases when the cache vector remained corrupted.
2014-06-06T20:20:12Z stassats: i'm more leaning towards foul GC
2014-06-06T20:20:16Z mega`: yeah
2014-06-06T20:20:31Z mega`: do you want me to look at something?
2014-06-06T20:21:22Z stassats: if you can get the widetag of the bogus object
2014-06-06T20:21:37Z mega`: #.(INT-SAP #X7FFFD3E8DDC0)
2014-06-06T20:22:10Z mega`: 77
2014-06-06T20:22:58Z stassats: what about the whole header?
2014-06-06T20:23:18Z mega`: How to get the whole header?
2014-06-06T20:24:07Z erikvarga:  /part
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2014-06-06T20:25:19Z mega`: bah, I tried to SETQ *X* to this object and got a corruption warning and a hung lisp
2014-06-06T20:26:23Z mega`: You didn't have funny foreign libraries loaded (I do) when you saw this?
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2014-06-06T20:26:42Z stassats: (sb-sys:sap-ref-word (sb-sys:int-sap (sb-kernel:get-lisp-obj-address #.(sb-sys:INT-SAP #X7FFFD3E8DDC0))) -15) is one way
2014-06-06T20:27:01Z stassats: mega`: libssl was probably loaded, but not used
2014-06-06T20:29:14Z stassats: and i don't get saps, i get invalid objects
2014-06-06T20:29:41Z stassats: which should mean bogus widetags
2014-06-06T20:32:27Z pkhuong: stassats: that won't work
2014-06-06T20:32:37Z pkhuong: you'll need a ref to the right sap.
2014-06-06T20:32:42Z stassats: i know
2014-06-06T20:33:35Z mega`: well, I don't have a ref or a functioning lisp at this point
2014-06-06T20:35:25Z stassats: so, two threads come into alloc, one decides it's time to GC, another is half way through allocating, what happens?
2014-06-06T20:35:52Z stassats: but alloc is PA..
2014-06-06T20:37:27Z nyef: This is the overflow / alloc-from-runtime case?
2014-06-06T20:38:04Z stassats: this is "something may be the case"
2014-06-06T20:39:10Z stassats: take a look at alloc(), it clears PA, if it sets it itself, then returns
2014-06-06T20:39:22Z stassats: it returns in a C register, are those scanned?
2014-06-06T20:40:01Z nyef: On x86oids, all registers and stack slots are possible conservative roots. On non-x86oids, there may be trouble.
2014-06-06T20:40:38Z stassats: ARM may be susceptible to this
2014-06-06T20:41:00Z stassats: since it uses the same allocation sequence as x86, while not being x86
2014-06-06T20:41:47Z stassats: and, the thing that alloc() returns doesn't have a widetag nor lowtag yet
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2014-06-06T20:44:05Z stassats: though, ARM sets FFCA
2014-06-06T20:44:13Z stassats: but that's not important now
2014-06-06T20:46:01Z stassats: nyef: so, how do x86oids distinguish between foreign values?
2014-06-06T20:46:09Z stassats: just that they point to something bogus?
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2014-06-06T20:46:35Z nyef: That's the point of a conservative root, yes.
2014-06-06T20:46:53Z stassats: why not FFCA too?
2014-06-06T20:47:02Z nyef: x86oids don't DO FFCA.
2014-06-06T20:47:08Z stassats: so, why not
2014-06-06T20:48:10Z nyef: Because the FFCA mechanism is a flag that says that interrupt contexts are (not) to be scavenged.
2014-06-06T20:48:27Z nyef: On x86oids, the register set isn't partitioned, so they need to be checked for conservative roots anyway.
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2014-06-06T20:49:12Z nyef: It also affects build_fake_control_stack_frames(), which requires split stacks, which x86oids don't have.
2014-06-06T20:49:46Z nyef: And where the runtime looks for the P-A flags, which doesn't change places on x86oids or ARM, so doesn't matter.
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2014-06-06T20:51:18Z stassats: ok, that's a diversion, it's still not clear what happens
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2014-06-06T21:02:54Z mega`: The value 70368539373600 is not of type SB-KERNEL:LAYOUT.
2014-06-06T21:04:44Z mega`: http://paste.lisp.org/+326U
2014-06-06T21:08:50Z stassats: mega`: is the code available, even if not minimized?
2014-06-06T21:11:01Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all.)
2014-06-06T21:11:06Z mega`: This was with a reasonably standalone version. I'd still prefer to send it privately as it's related to a competition and I don't want to give away much.
2014-06-06T21:11:28Z mega`: So to stassats and pkhuong?
2014-06-06T21:11:36Z stassats: yeah
2014-06-06T21:11:48Z stassats: i promise not to outcompete you
2014-06-06T21:13:22Z stassats: and i really need to get a new CPU cooler
2014-06-06T21:17:24Z mega`: sent
2014-06-06T21:19:41Z mega`: maybe I'll try to do more divisions by zero
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2014-06-06T22:21:20Z stassats: ordered some coolers, otherwise i can't run any stress tests
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2014-06-06T22:31:09Z pkhuong: stassats: do you want a shell on my 4 socket?
2014-06-06T22:31:49Z stassats: you can just run the code mega` sent
2014-06-06T22:33:34Z pkhuong: I'm done fighting with quickload
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2014-06-06T22:33:35Z pkhuong: tomorrow
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2014-06-06T22:39:00Z dto: hi everyone
2014-06-06T22:39:13Z dto: does the new ARM stuff support ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore?
2014-06-06T22:39:24Z stassats: yes
2014-06-06T22:40:14Z dto: i bought an ouya at the store just now.
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2014-06-06T22:40:44Z dto: so i'm hoping i can get it to work.
2014-06-06T22:40:50Z dto: hello stassats :)
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2014-06-06T23:59:21Z dto: will i need to install linux on this in order to begin porting?
2014-06-07T00:02:05Z dto: is there a guide i can read about the ARM port?
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2014-06-07T00:56:23Z |3b|: i think currently you would need linux, in which case it should work like any other linux sbcl
2014-06-07T00:57:01Z dto: is any particular linux recommended?
2014-06-07T00:57:05Z dto: i'll look around.
2014-06-07T00:59:26Z |3b|: no idea what's even available for ouya
2014-06-07T01:00:46Z dto: i thought it was possible to cross-compile,
2014-06-07T01:00:53Z dto: i dunno. it'll take some time to figure out.
2014-06-07T01:00:58Z dto: i'm doing some reading up
2014-06-07T01:01:33Z |3b|: you can cross compile, but still need a linux target to run it on as far as i know
2014-06-07T01:01:46Z |3b|: so no point in cross compiling if you could just run it there to start with
2014-06-07T01:03:58Z dto: the problem is how to get an SBCL to compile SBCL with
2014-06-07T01:04:04Z dto: in that case
2014-06-07T01:04:21Z |3b|: actually, i guess stassats was talking about some stuff for building/running on android (if not as an actual android app), not sure if that is in the tree or not
2014-06-07T01:04:54Z dto: there were some comments here too https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7806463
2014-06-07T01:05:19Z |3b|: http://sbcl.org/platform-table.html <- same place you get an x86 sbcl to build with :)
2014-06-07T01:05:33Z dto: oh cool!
2014-06-07T01:05:42Z dto: do i need ARMel or ARMhf
2014-06-07T01:06:00Z dto: ok so i should figure out what linux this sbcl runs on
2014-06-07T01:06:05Z |3b|: might depend on the linux you install
2014-06-07T01:06:06Z dto: thanks |3b| .
2014-06-07T01:09:00Z dto: can i run emacs and slime on the PC and use that protocol to talk to the SBCL running on the ouya?
2014-06-07T01:11:10Z |3b|: if it is linux, should be able to tunnel it through ssh like any remote slime
2014-06-07T01:11:46Z |3b|: (or configure swank/slime to allow non-local connections)
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2014-06-07T01:16:32Z dto: |3b|: in that situation, can Slime load a system into the remote SBCL using source files that are opened in the local emacs?
2014-06-07T01:16:45Z dto: or do i have to edit the files via tramp or something
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2014-06-07T01:24:20Z dto-00: oops |3b| lost connection. sorry
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2014-06-07T01:30:44Z |3b|: dto: yeah, use tramp if the paths don't match
2014-06-07T01:31:11Z |3b|: actually, maybe i'm thinking of the wrong thing...
2014-06-07T01:31:34Z dto: hmm i think yes
2014-06-07T01:31:41Z dto: i'm still thinking through how this is going to work.
2014-06-07T01:31:43Z |3b|: i think there is a way to get it to translate filenames if both systems have a shared fs
2014-06-07T01:31:53Z |3b|: not sure if that involved tramp or not
2014-06-07T01:32:03Z dto: oh.
2014-06-07T01:32:24Z dto: yeah i'll figure it out. it'll prob also depend on how/which linux \i install
2014-06-07T01:33:26Z |3b|: looks like slime-filename-translations in slime-tramp contrib
2014-06-07T01:33:48Z |3b|: remote slime is more of a #lisp question though
2014-06-07T01:34:40Z dto: definitely. i'll ask when the time comes
2014-06-07T01:34:45Z dto: thanks |3b|
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2014-06-07T15:59:48Z dto: hey |3b| and friends :) happy to report that sbcl works on Ouya. quicklisp gets as far as compiling a bunch of CL-OPENGL. but eventually halts with CANNOT-ENCODE-IMMEDIATE-OPERAND in rasterization.lisp  http://i.imgur.com/bhxp9uv.jpg
2014-06-07T16:00:37Z |3b|: cool, looks like you found a bug in arm port :)
2014-06-07T16:01:25Z dto: this is so exciting!! :)
2014-06-07T16:01:28Z dto: good afternoon sir
2014-06-07T16:02:06Z |3b|: what does the backtrace look like?
2014-06-07T16:02:41Z dto: give me a minute, i'll grab it. (how do i grab it? )
2014-06-07T16:03:31Z |3b|: type backtrace (or just ba) at that prompty and it should print it
2014-06-07T16:03:37Z dto: ok. brb
2014-06-07T16:04:17Z |3b|: if that scrolls too far, try ba 10
2014-06-07T16:06:42Z dto: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=PxenGw9p
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2014-06-07T16:09:17Z |3b|: stassats: dto seems to have broken arm port, see logs from few min ago
2014-06-07T16:11:49Z |3b|: dto: you are in repl not slime, right?
2014-06-07T16:11:58Z dto: correct
2014-06-07T16:12:03Z stassats: that's good
2014-06-07T16:12:13Z dto: loading via Quicklisp
2014-06-07T16:12:25Z dto: btw all the LISPBUILDER-FOO stuff compiled too.
2014-06-07T16:13:01Z |3b|: stassats: is that error enough to tell whats wrong without trying to reduce it?
2014-06-07T16:13:31Z stassats: haven't read the logs, but any testing with errors is good
2014-06-07T16:13:45Z stassats: well, CANNOT-ENCODE-IMMEDIATE-OPERAND is the known enemy
2014-06-07T16:14:21Z stassats: and the backtrace is enough, will fix sometime today
2014-06-07T16:14:58Z dto: let me know if there is any way i can help. i'm cloning the github sbcl/sbcl repo onto the ouya right now so that i can pull any changes.
2014-06-07T16:15:38Z dto: in my howto guide i'll have to add a note to turn off the ubuntu screensaver. it overheated my ouya, possibly because video might not be configured right :)
2014-06-07T16:16:20Z stassats: mega`: is hanging a possible failure mode?
2014-06-07T16:50:01Z stassats: another mega-crash hang
2014-06-07T16:50:21Z stassats: a dead-lock, to be exact
2014-06-07T16:52:28Z stassats: i'm running with safepoints, it deadlocks when trying to stop the threads, lovely
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2014-06-07T17:25:55Z stassats: dto: fixed, try again
2014-06-07T17:26:22Z stassats: only that github sbcl is a mirror and won't get updated soon, use git://git.code.sf.net/p/sbcl/sbcl
2014-06-07T17:29:50Z dto: okay. i'll try in a few minutes, just messing with drivers
2014-06-07T17:33:41Z stassats: no, no sb-safepoint, The value 70368659222400 is not of type LIST.
2014-06-07T17:37:44Z mega`: stassats: I haven't seen that failure mode.
2014-06-07T17:38:05Z stassats: that was with sb-safepoint
2014-06-07T17:38:37Z mega`: I'm not running with sb-safepoint.
2014-06-07T17:38:56Z stassats: i get errors without safepoints
2014-06-07T17:39:20Z mega`: although I probably should because neither cuda nor openblas likes being interrupted.
2014-06-07T17:39:53Z mega`: did you see the expected failures too?
2014-06-07T17:40:35Z stassats: The value 70368661483392 is not of type LIST. and Argument X is not a NUMBER: #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X7FFFF6245F00)
2014-06-07T17:41:31Z mega`: sounds similar
2014-06-07T17:41:33Z stassats: i get them quite quickly
2014-06-07T17:41:36Z mega`: great
2014-06-07T17:41:42Z mega`: I had to wait quite a bit.
2014-06-07T17:41:59Z stassats: need to run from slime, or i don't see the backtraces
2014-06-07T17:42:39Z mega`: I ran it under slime too.
2014-06-07T17:45:14Z stassats: 70368661483392 not a list is from run-pending-finalizers
2014-06-07T17:48:04Z stassats: and NUMBER is a sap in (ABS ...)
2014-06-07T17:48:23Z stassats: doesn't look like a problem with defun-cached
2014-06-07T17:50:30Z stassats: so, a gc or interrupt corruption
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2014-06-07T18:00:05Z stassats: and the failure seems arbitrary enough to be a pain to pin down
2014-06-07T18:00:19Z stassats: though the fact that sb-safepoint deadlocks might help
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2014-06-07T18:12:39Z dto: stassats: my apologies --- can you give me the proper repo URL again?
2014-06-07T18:13:02Z stassats: it's at http://sbcl.org/platform-table.html
2014-06-07T18:13:28Z dto: thank you.
2014-06-07T18:26:23Z dto: stassats: getting a build error during make.sh.
2014-06-07T18:26:25Z dto: http://pastebin.com/qaKnUpPz
2014-06-07T18:26:42Z stassats: you don't have time
2014-06-07T18:26:54Z stassats: apt-get install it
2014-06-07T18:26:56Z dto: but it seems to run when i type time at the prompt
2014-06-07T18:26:58Z dto: ok i'll try
2014-06-07T18:27:24Z Bike: that looks like a shell builtin?
2014-06-07T18:31:03Z dto: yes that's what confused me Bike.
2014-06-07T18:31:10Z dto: thanks stassats , it's building now.
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2014-06-07T19:20:50Z dto: well sbcl built fine, and i reinstalled quicklisp and tried to load cl-opengl, but now i get a different error http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Hceb8x2W
2014-06-07T19:21:01Z |3b|: how long did it take to build?
2014-06-07T19:21:12Z dto: maybe there are stale fasls other than in ~/quicklisp/
2014-06-07T19:21:14Z dto: like an hour
2014-06-07T19:21:45Z stassats: that doesn't look like an sbcl problem right away
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2014-06-07T19:22:13Z dto: i changed nothing but the sbcl version between retries. maybe stale fasls?
2014-06-07T19:22:21Z dto: i'll look around
2014-06-07T19:22:23Z stassats: maybe
2014-06-07T19:22:50Z |3b|: might show it to xach, seems to be ql getting confused
2014-06-07T19:23:33Z stassats: maybe reading from a file is broken, but that's unlikely, again
2014-06-07T19:27:05Z |3b|: looks like that string came from a hash table of some sort, so it could have broken some math in that
2014-06-07T19:27:56Z dto: removed stale fasls from ~/.cache/common-lisp and reinstalled quicklisp from fresh again. this didn't help though. same error.
2014-06-07T19:29:33Z |3b|: is (gethash "cl-opengl" (ql-dist::system-index (ql-dist:find-dist "quicklisp"))) NIL?
2014-06-07T19:31:53Z |3b|: and what is (let ((d (ql-dist:find-dist "quicklisp"))) (ql-dist::cdb-lookup d "cl-opengl" (ql-dist::ensure-system-cdb-file d))) ?
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2014-06-07T19:52:10Z stassats: and i'm with an independent test case
2014-06-07T19:53:19Z |3b|: you mean it is failing for you too?
2014-06-07T19:53:21Z stassats: (not the quicklisp thing)
2014-06-07T19:53:25Z |3b|: ah, ok
2014-06-07T19:54:34Z stassats: and quicklisp is failing for me to, can't quickload anything
2014-06-07T19:54:51Z stassats: but the memory corruption issue is first
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2014-06-07T20:01:24Z stassats: if anyone is eager to try: http://paste.lisp.org/display/142817
2014-06-07T20:01:30Z |3b|: stassats: was that ql failing on arm or in general?
2014-06-07T20:01:37Z stassats: |3b|: on arm
2014-06-07T20:01:52Z stassats: it should crash within a dozen or two seconds, if it doesn't, restart and try again
2014-06-07T20:04:27Z stassats: the fact that it is div-by-zero doesn't matter, what matters is that it's a trap error
2014-06-07T20:05:32Z |3b|: corruption warning 2nd try on  1.1.16.83-0bd6b78 x8664 linux
2014-06-07T20:05:50Z stassats: good
2014-06-07T20:06:16Z stassats: so, compiling, gcing and trapping doesn't play well
2014-06-07T20:06:35Z |3b|: and quicklisp works from fresh install on  1.1.14.49-12adfac x8664 linux, so that regression seems arm specific
2014-06-07T20:06:51Z |3b|: oops, that wasn't the version i wanted to test :/
2014-06-07T20:08:07Z |3b|: ok, ql fails on 1.2.0.72-b735a20 x8664 linux
2014-06-07T20:08:14Z stassats: oh my
2014-06-07T20:08:56Z stassats: care to bisect?
2014-06-07T20:09:46Z |3b|: sure
2014-06-07T20:10:04Z stassats: ok, i'll stay on the corruption thing
2014-06-07T20:10:29Z stassats: also, please don't be my commit
2014-06-07T20:11:16Z stassats: and, no compilation needed, allocation + traps => caboom
2014-06-07T20:13:47Z |3b|: and corruption warning on that 1.2.0.72 also
2014-06-07T20:13:50Z stassats: should crash right away: http://paste.lisp.org/display/142817#1
2014-06-07T20:14:57Z |3b|: yeah, pretty quickly on both versions
2014-06-07T20:16:19Z stassats: GC hits while the trap is being processed
2014-06-07T20:17:28Z stassats: all threads wait for the gc, except for the one with a memory fault
2014-06-07T20:17:37Z stassats: and one thread waits for the gc while being interrupted by the trap
2014-06-07T20:19:59Z stassats: the fault seems to be coming from sb-kernel::internal-error
2014-06-07T20:31:11Z stassats: and safepointed sbcl hangs on this too
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2014-06-07T20:49:11Z |3b|: seems to be within last 8 commits, building those now
2014-06-07T20:54:27Z mega`: last 8 relative to what?
2014-06-07T20:55:23Z |3b|: relative to head... looks like "1.2.0.70-021d58d" (this is the quicklisp thing, not the crashes)
2014-06-07T20:56:38Z mega`: oh
2014-06-07T20:59:51Z stassats: mega`: have you seen my test-case?
2014-06-07T21:00:01Z mega`: yes
2014-06-07T21:00:10Z mega`: it tried things like that
2014-06-07T21:00:20Z stassats: tried it?
2014-06-07T21:00:46Z mega`: Not this one. But something like it yesterday and couldn't provoke the bug.
2014-06-07T21:00:50Z mega`: I'll try this now.
2014-06-07T21:01:10Z stassats: the second one crashes right away
2014-06-07T21:01:31Z |3b|: stassats: is the --lose-on-corruption important, or just make it exit instead of printing a message?
2014-06-07T21:01:41Z stassats: the latter
2014-06-07T21:02:21Z mega`: quick death
2014-06-07T21:02:25Z mega`: confirmed
2014-06-07T21:02:49Z |3b|: no message on 1.1.7.118 with local patches
2014-06-07T21:03:11Z |3b|: 1.1.14.43 seems to have locked up, not responding to ctrl-c
2014-06-07T21:03:37Z stassats: 1.1.7.113 here, doesn't fail either
2014-06-07T21:03:41Z stassats: sb-safepoint hangs
2014-06-07T21:03:52Z stassats: is your 1.14.43 with safepoints?
2014-06-07T21:04:53Z |3b|: yeah, looks like it
2014-06-07T21:06:09Z |3b|: no message on 1.1.13.24 x86
2014-06-07T21:10:21Z stassats: there was a change to gc in 1.1.13.53
2014-06-07T21:10:28Z stassats: 1.1.13.52 doesn't fail...
2014-06-07T21:13:26Z stassats: 53 doesn't fail either, phew
2014-06-07T21:13:33Z stassats: bisecting it is
2014-06-07T21:13:53Z mega`: what's the commit id?
2014-06-07T21:14:27Z stassats: debae3c18d31b5222be4d5de8dcb2601336e24a4
2014-06-07T21:14:51Z mega`: thanks, looking
2014-06-07T21:15:10Z stassats: well, it doesn't fail, so
2014-06-07T21:15:45Z |3b|: hmm, no recent prebuilt x86/linux binaries :(
2014-06-07T21:16:34Z |3b|: though i guess you found more recent versions that work, so shouldn't depend on that
2014-06-07T21:16:41Z stassats: it doesn't fail on PPC, which isn't surprising
2014-06-07T21:17:06Z stassats: wait
2014-06-07T21:17:30Z stassats: it hangs on ppc?
2014-06-07T21:18:54Z stassats: and it doesn't have sb-safepoint
2014-06-07T21:18:55Z stassats: interesting
2014-06-07T21:19:46Z stassats: allocation are handled with traps on ppc
2014-06-07T21:21:41Z stassats: |3b|: so, did the quicklisp bisect finish? is it still map nil?
2014-06-07T21:21:57Z |3b|:  "1.2.0.70-021d58d"
2014-06-07T21:22:03Z stassats: bummer
2014-06-07T21:22:16Z stassats: ok, will see what i messed up
2014-06-07T21:22:25Z |3b|: and i was just looking whether it generated a bad cdb file or not, not actual error
2014-06-07T21:22:43Z |3b|: but it generates same bad file, so should have same effects
2014-06-07T21:23:20Z stassats: so, 1.1.14 suceeds and 1.1.15 fails
2014-06-07T21:24:04Z stassats: there was a series of gencgc changes by nyef
2014-06-07T21:24:46Z |3b|: looks like quicklisp/cdb.lisp does use MAP NIL a bunch
2014-06-07T21:26:03Z |3b|: well, 4 times
2014-06-07T21:28:51Z stassats: how do i check for corruption?
2014-06-07T21:29:22Z |3b|: are you asking how i was testing?
2014-06-07T21:29:48Z |3b|: or is that still the other bug
2014-06-07T21:29:52Z stassats: yes
2014-06-07T21:29:53Z stassats: no
2014-06-07T21:30:08Z stassats: it's the map nil
2014-06-07T21:31:24Z |3b|: (let ((d (ql-dist:find-dist "quicklisp"))) (ql-dist::cdb-lookup d "cl-opengl" (ql-dist::ensure-system-cdb-file d))) should return more than ""
2014-06-07T21:32:13Z |3b| was installing quicklisp, running that, then checking the md5sum of ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/systems.cdb
2014-06-07T21:32:41Z |3b|: if you want to try a fix, you can delete systems.cdb and above form will regenerate it
2014-06-07T21:32:54Z stassats: yeah, i got it
2014-06-07T21:35:58Z stassats: should it return NIL?
2014-06-07T21:36:20Z stassats: at least when it does ql:quickload works
2014-06-07T21:41:41Z |3b|: MAP NIL is specified to return NIL
2014-06-07T21:41:58Z |3b|: seems a bit odd to rely on that though
2014-06-07T21:42:02Z stassats: sure, but i was talking about your form, and just got the answer to my question
2014-06-07T21:42:12Z |3b|: ah
2014-06-07T21:42:31Z |3b|: not sure, NIL or a string with contents
2014-06-07T21:44:34Z stassats: ahhh
2014-06-07T21:44:52Z stassats: i modified build-sequence-iterator, but it's used in other places
2014-06-07T21:44:55Z stassats: what a stupid error
2014-06-07T21:44:59Z |3b|: yeah, looks like it should return a string with contents when working completely correctly
2014-06-07T21:45:15Z |3b|: well, at least it was caught reasonably quickly :)
2014-06-07T21:46:24Z stassats: (it failed in map-into)
2014-06-07T21:54:42Z stassats: and for the gc, it's 0cd4731bb43b3f79d33e85300407031f808763f0
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2014-06-07T21:59:56Z dto: hello |3b| and stassats . interesting
2014-06-07T22:00:07Z stassats: dto: fix incoming
2014-06-07T22:00:27Z stassats: in the next 5 minutes
2014-06-07T22:01:21Z stassats: 0cd4731bb43b3f79d33e85300407031f808763f0 seems quite innocuous
2014-06-07T22:01:58Z stassats: maybe because it's just one line
2014-06-07T22:04:41Z mega`: and the code_page_p is killed off in later commits
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2014-06-07T22:05:07Z stassats: yep, just as i wanted to uncomment that #if 0
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2014-06-07T22:11:25Z stassats: and hit something non-determenistic in compiler.impure with a map fix, sigh
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2014-06-07T22:28:09Z stassats: dto: fix pushed
2014-06-07T22:28:17Z stassats: |3b|: thanks for bisecting it
2014-06-07T22:34:25Z dto: hi i'm back. stassats and |3b| thanks. will pull and recompile
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2014-06-07T22:39:01Z stassats: when i change this https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/f0cb0cf9c0fe1b6fce5d10dbd34a0b7b249c4ae8/src/runtime/gencgc.c#L2284 to page_boxed_p, i get the failure
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2014-06-07T22:46:33Z dto: stassats: compiling now. it seems like it'll be starting from scratch so i think it will take an hour again. i'll keep you posted.
2014-06-07T22:49:21Z dto: the fan is on, i'll see how hot it gets. i'm running the compile in a Screen session as advised
2014-06-07T22:55:19Z dto: it's hot. now applying turbofan
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2014-06-07T23:21:00Z dto: |3b|: quicklisp appears to work now. will try compiling cl-opengl.
2014-06-07T23:29:34Z dto: anomaly detected http://i.imgur.com/4OHk8iD.png
2014-06-07T23:30:00Z |3b|: interesting
2014-06-07T23:30:52Z |3b| builds new sbcl to see if it is arm specific
2014-06-07T23:32:29Z dto: want the backtrace?
2014-06-07T23:32:33Z |3b|: sure
2014-06-07T23:33:17Z dto: oh HA
2014-06-07T23:33:39Z dto: i accidentally typed a control char of some kind after the right paren of my (ql:quickload :uuid)
2014-06-07T23:33:46Z dto: look, the * shows it succeeded
2014-06-07T23:33:50Z dto: sorry, this is my dumbness
2014-06-07T23:33:57Z |3b|: :)
2014-06-07T23:33:57Z dto: ok, proceeding with previous test.
2014-06-07T23:36:06Z dto: it appears to have successfully ql:quickloaded cl-opengl.
2014-06-07T23:36:09Z dto: brb
2014-06-07T23:36:20Z dto: also loaded all other xelf deps, so i'll try that next.
2014-06-07T23:37:17Z |3b|: running on linux with normal opengl is reasonably likely to work, as long as you didn't go beyond whatever that software GL does
2014-06-07T23:37:53Z |3b|: not as sure about gles on linux but might be OK, gles on android will probably be harder
2014-06-07T23:40:01Z dto: here goes
2014-06-07T23:40:03Z dto: !
2014-06-07T23:44:16Z dto: it compiles.
2014-06-07T23:44:57Z dto: 2x0ng compiles.
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2014-06-07T23:46:12Z dto: |3b|: 2x0ng runs. music, sfx, graphics, everything. however it's very slow. but i'm sure that's the software renderer
2014-06-07T23:55:14Z dto: i've kept very very detailed notes on everything so i'll be able to share
2014-06-07T23:55:28Z dto: i unboxed this about 24 hours ago.
2014-06-07T23:55:50Z dto: |3b|: thanks so much for your help with this.
2014-06-07T23:59:00Z dto: here's what i have thus far. i'll write it up a bit more. http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=UztxhksF
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2014-06-08T00:20:30Z |3b|: dto: cool, will have to take a look at that at some point
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2014-06-08T01:28:23Z pkhuong: re memory corruption, calls to search_dynamic_space seem broken. Not convinced it can cause problems, but only because sizeof(lispobj) is a power of two
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2014-06-08T10:32:04Z Sir_herrbatka: hi all, i'm lisp newbie and i'm looking for a book explaining how lisp implementations are implemented
2014-06-08T10:32:20Z Sir_herrbatka: red dragoon book does not help here
2014-06-08T10:34:27Z stassats: with sweat and tears
2014-06-08T10:36:09Z Sir_herrbatka: stassats: i have nothing against sweat and tears as long as it leads somewhere
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2014-06-08T11:36:06Z _8hzp: Sir_herrbatka: this channel is more about SBCL in particular than Lisp implementation in general.  For SBCL, the internals manual provides some information.  Also the CMUCL design documents.
2014-06-08T11:36:26Z _8hzp: Better ask elsewhere for more general pointers, e.g. #lisp.  They might point you to Lisp in Small Pieces.  Or to start with the basics, SICP.
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2014-06-08T12:28:24Z Sir_herrbatka: _8hzp: thanks, i readed sicp
2014-06-08T12:28:39Z Sir_herrbatka: but it is not about the implementation itself
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2014-06-08T12:59:58Z stassats: the fault happens when the thread resumes after gc, which suspended in the middle of calling interrupt_internal_error
2014-06-08T13:01:49Z dto: good morning stassats. your fixes worked. 2x0ng now runs with GL, sound, music, everything.
2014-06-08T13:01:57Z stassats: i saw in the logs
2014-06-08T13:02:01Z stassats: good to hear
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2014-06-08T13:02:20Z dto: thank you for your help, as well!
2014-06-08T13:04:12Z dto: and it's fun to participate in bug reporting, and providing backtraces and seeing how things work
2014-06-08T13:09:46Z dto: so at this point im doing some reading about the SDL android port. looks like it could possibly work
2014-06-08T13:10:50Z dto: possibly modifying some of the C and Java parts of their "shim" app. but i can do that.
2014-06-08T13:11:18Z pkhuong: stassats: we're not in PA around alloc_sap :|
2014-06-08T13:12:21Z stassats: it seems like it's under PA, from the log
2014-06-08T13:12:55Z stassats: alloc_unboxed does pa_alloc
2014-06-08T13:13:07Z stassats: but it may be not enough
2014-06-08T13:14:00Z pkhuong: pa_alloc should handle tagging, I guess.
2014-06-08T13:14:38Z stassats: i'll try with PA around alloc_sap
2014-06-08T13:15:25Z pkhuong: you'll have to mangle pa_alloc too
2014-06-08T13:15:36Z pkhuong: pa_alloc sets/clears the PA flag
2014-06-08T13:16:49Z stassats: i'll first check whether GC interrupts during alloc_sap
2014-06-08T13:16:57Z stassats: and why does code_page_p change triggers all of this
2014-06-08T13:19:37Z pkhuong: alloc_sap goes straight to the unboxed region
2014-06-08T13:19:54Z pkhuong: so reduced conservatism in unboxed regions could do it.
2014-06-08T13:20:56Z stassats: so, this may be not the only instance of the problem
2014-06-08T13:21:31Z pkhuong: right.
2014-06-08T13:21:37Z pkhuong: all of our alloc_foo are broken
2014-06-08T13:23:07Z stassats: ok, so, gc is deferred by the pa_alloc, but is invoked shortly thereafter
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2014-06-08T13:23:20Z stassats: so, alloc_sap is broken up by the gc
2014-06-08T13:25:23Z stassats: and then it returns, but it shortly hit by another stop-for-gc, and when that returns and it funcalls into lisp, the lisp error handler dies
2014-06-08T13:26:09Z pkhuong: not sure if the second stop for gc is necessary
2014-06-08T13:26:29Z pkhuong: alloc_sap will overwrite arbitrary memory with its sap
2014-06-08T13:28:06Z stassats: the fault is always something short
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2014-06-08T13:50:45Z stassats: so, the bad address comes form os_context_register
2014-06-08T13:52:28Z stassats: when it queries for CFP
2014-06-08T13:53:56Z stassats: not clear why does it dereference it
2014-06-08T13:56:13Z stassats: ok, the function context-register derefs it
2014-06-08T13:57:50Z stassats: so, it's os_context_register_addr
2014-06-08T14:00:09Z stassats: so, the context sap is probably pointing to the wrong thing
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2014-06-08T16:15:59Z christoph_debian: hm without the cliki -- is there the cross-build documentationa vailable somewhere?
2014-06-08T16:16:13Z stassats: inside make.sh
2014-06-08T16:16:18Z stassats: and make-config.sh
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2014-06-08T16:19:30Z christoph_debian: seems to work indeed without any extra magic (I remember some env variables and stuff from last time)
2014-06-08T16:20:15Z christoph_debian: other question: is the arm port working for armv4te as well? I'm seeing some armv5 compile flags currently
2014-06-08T16:21:57Z stassats: i don't think it would work on v4
2014-06-08T16:22:44Z christoph_debian: and changing the -march to something newer qould probably have little effect I guess
2014-06-08T16:22:46Z christoph_debian: ok
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2014-06-08T18:25:08Z christoph_debian: sb-gmp not passing the self-test (1.2.0, arm) is expected?
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2014-06-08T19:16:15Z Krystof: christoph_debian: yes
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2014-06-09T02:17:49Z pkhuong: array type intersection fix coming up
2014-06-09T02:17:53Z pkhuong: along with some unparsing bugs
2014-06-09T02:18:04Z pkhuong: next is array-rank
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2014-06-09T04:55:40Z pkhuong: good night.
2014-06-09T04:56:02Z slyrus: thanks pkhuong! testing now.
2014-06-09T05:07:22Z slyrus: yay! appears to be fixed!
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2014-06-09T11:07:21Z mega`: I went back to 1.1.14 until the allocation corruption bug is killed.
2014-06-09T11:12:27Z stassats: i thought about that too, but then i upgraded because of another bug
2014-06-09T11:13:18Z stassats: that one https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1272742 surfaced on the server too
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2014-06-09T11:13:44Z mega`: well, I cherry picked 'Respect *DEBUG-PRINT-VARIABLE-ALIST* when printing args in PRINT-FRAME-CALL' on top of it
2014-06-09T11:13:55Z pkhuong: it's a race against my first cup of coffee.
2014-06-09T11:14:03Z pkhuong: after that, work.
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2014-06-09T11:59:06Z pkhuong: foiled by compiler optimisations.
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2014-06-09T12:03:42Z pkhuong: success.
2014-06-09T12:04:56Z pkhuong: http://paste.lisp.org/display/142817#2
2014-06-09T12:05:08Z pkhuong: I'll see about emitting the right kind of barrier later
2014-06-09T12:05:24Z pkhuong: I also think pa_alloc_check should handle lowtagging.
2014-06-09T12:07:43Z pkhuong: I'm gonna leave this running, but it's been ~5 minutes without a crash
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2014-06-09T13:22:07Z nyef: G'morning all.
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2014-06-09T13:29:58Z nyef: It's review-request time again. http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/nyef.git/commitdiff/a8c08c36b759d0ede74d5298a5cdadf301bf7d0b seems to do what I want, but it's a little bit overzealous on reporting code-deletion. I haven't managed to track down a simple test case for that yet, though.
2014-06-09T13:32:49Z Krystof: heh.  I was about to ask "why do you call find-dfo", but the comment above it already answers my question, sort of
2014-06-09T13:33:21Z pkhuong: nyef: http://paste.lisp.org/display/142817#2 could do with some review too
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2014-06-09T13:37:27Z nyef: pkhuong: Ouch! And I have some stuff in my short-term (< 3 months) list that touches this area as well.
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2014-06-09T13:41:34Z nyef: I like that use of a for-loop, very clever. (-:
2014-06-09T13:44:57Z pkhuong: good clever, I hope (:
2014-06-09T13:45:29Z nyef: Yes. I'm going to have to remember that trick for possible later use.
2014-06-09T13:47:53Z nyef: The commentary that starts "WARNING KLUDGE FIXME" is wrong: maybe_defer_handler() does actually defer on threaded PPC and GENCGC ARM, and cleaning up that mess is one of the items on my short-to-mid-term list.
2014-06-09T13:49:04Z nyef: There's still no save vs. asynchronous GC outside of the immediate allocation sequence, unfortunately.
2014-06-09T13:51:32Z pkhuong: I learned the final evolution of the for trick on http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/mp/
2014-06-09T13:51:51Z nyef: On the whole, I like the approach, but it's a bit copy/paste in terms of implementation.
2014-06-09T13:52:05Z pkhuong: I'll probably kill pa_alloc
2014-06-09T13:52:06Z nyef: And there are still holes in it.
2014-06-09T13:52:19Z pkhuong: and move alloc_code to the for loop (even though it's necessary)
2014-06-09T13:52:31Z pkhuong: holes on precise platforms?
2014-06-09T13:52:52Z nyef: Yes, on precise platforms.
2014-06-09T13:53:07Z pkhuong: add it to the pin list? ;)
2014-06-09T13:53:16Z nyef: That'd do it, yes.
2014-06-09T13:53:46Z nyef: Well, that, and fixing up the whole PA-from-C mess, which, as I said, is on my short-term list.
2014-06-09T14:01:04Z pkhuong: also, how do you feel about general_alloc temporarily disabling PA if gc isn't disabled and we need to gc?
2014-06-09T14:01:43Z pkhuong: the assumption being that we really only need PA from the moment we allocate a block of memory until it's all tagged up
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2014-06-09T14:10:06Z nyef: Maybe. We might also be doing other crazy things with the register set at that point, though.
2014-06-09T14:14:39Z stassats: pkhuong: that doesn't crash anymore, but still hangs on sb-safepoint
2014-06-09T14:14:45Z stassats: probably an unrelated problem
2014-06-09T14:19:06Z pkhuong: the code might be wrong for safepoints
2014-06-09T14:19:29Z pkhuong: I only tried to cover vanilla x86oid builds
2014-06-09T14:19:57Z stassats: it probably is a different problem, deadlocking while waiting for GC state changes
2014-06-09T14:38:06Z pkhuong: do we need to insert some magic to pretend we're in lisp before kicking off a GC?
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2014-06-09T15:04:14Z Krystof: waah
2014-06-09T15:04:21Z Krystof: because reasoning about scope of declarations is hard :-(
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2014-06-09T15:28:06Z leuler: pkhuong: Some days ago you mentioned having been contacted by the mill team. Could you share a bit more about what you discussed with them?
2014-06-09T15:29:27Z Krystof: who would like to offer an opinion on declaration scope identities?
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2014-06-09T15:30:10Z Krystof: is (binding-form (...) (declare <free-declaration>) body) identical to (binding-form (...) (locally (declare <free-declaration>) body))?
2014-06-09T15:30:27Z Krystof: call that question (a)
2014-06-09T15:31:07Z Krystof: question (b): is (binding-form (...) (declare <free-or-bound-declaration>*) body) identical to (binding-form (...) (declare <bound-declarations>*) (locally (declare <free-declarations) body))?
2014-06-09T15:31:40Z Krystof: I have a question (c) but it depends on the answers to (a) and (b)
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2014-06-09T15:33:11Z pkhuong: leuler: I still have to follow up on Ivan's qs. But they're trying to understand how to support non-C runtimes/compilers better
2014-06-09T15:33:26Z pkhuong: which makes sense given that they handle call/return in hardware.
2014-06-09T15:33:44Z pkhuong: Krystof: iirc, there's a difference for special?
2014-06-09T15:34:09Z Krystof: I don't think so, bicbw?
2014-06-09T15:34:21Z pkhuong: and ic definitely bw
2014-06-09T15:34:55Z pkhuong: isn't there a difference in whether the declaration affects other bindings in its scope?
2014-06-09T15:36:03Z Krystof: I think if the special is a bound declaration, it remains one, and if it's a free declaration it can't affect any binding forms
2014-06-09T15:36:23Z pkhuong: leuler: forwarded
2014-06-09T15:36:25Z Krystof: so in (let ((x y)) (declare (special y)) y) the initialization y isn't a special
2014-06-09T15:37:38Z Krystof: but in (let* ((*x* y) (z (foo)) (w *x*)) (declare (special *x*)) ...) both *x*s are special and so the call to (foo) can mutate the binding
2014-06-09T15:37:47Z Krystof: but my transform preserves that
2014-06-09T15:38:13Z Krystof: what's the case that you're thinking of?
2014-06-09T15:41:25Z pkhuong: nope, you're right.
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2014-06-09T15:42:29Z leuler: pkhuong: got the mail; thanks. (I am getting back to you only now as I spent the last days reading up on the mill. Especially watching all the videos takes some time ...)
2014-06-09T15:44:12Z Krystof: so, question (c)
2014-06-09T15:46:06Z Krystof: given the interpretation of type declarations as transformations a bit like (let ((x ...)) (declare (type y x)) body) => (let ((x ...)) (the y x) ,@(subst '(the y x) 'x body)
2014-06-09T15:46:19Z Krystof: clhs type
2014-06-09T15:46:19Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_type.htm
2014-06-09T15:47:27Z Krystof: given that the transformations (a) and (b) are valid, does this imply that the type check at the head of the body is in the scope of a free declaration (e.g. an OPTIMIZE one) or not?
2014-06-09T15:48:29Z pkhuong: I would say yes, and that's pretty much what we already do (:
2014-06-09T15:48:41Z Krystof: ah, but
2014-06-09T15:49:33Z Krystof: lp 309125
2014-06-09T15:49:33Z specbot: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/309125
2014-06-09T15:50:01Z Krystof: the problem is that we do that by having the policy encompass the initialization forms, which is definitely wrong
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2014-06-09T15:52:44Z Krystof: if we put the policy in the right place, suddenly we don't do that any more, and half our test suite breaks
2014-06-09T15:54:19Z Krystof: but ok, if we believe that that interpretation makes sense, then I can work on it
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2014-06-09T16:04:03Z Krystof: no, wait, I have it backwards.  Or do I?
2014-06-09T16:05:58Z Krystof: http://paste.lisp.org/display/142831 # I think this is what is sensible
2014-06-09T16:06:20Z leuler: Nikodemus's fix for the test cases (in his patch in launchpad) wraps a thunk around the lambda to be compiled. Could one do without, by wrapping a locally around it instead: (compile nil '(locally (declare ...) (lambda ...)))?
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2014-06-09T16:06:37Z Krystof: no, because the argument to compile must be a lambda expression
2014-06-09T16:06:38Z stassats: compile doesn't work on that
2014-06-09T16:08:49Z leuler: Thanks. I should have looked that up myself in the spec, sorry.
2014-06-09T16:11:26Z Krystof: hm, none of these examples is actually capturing the one that I'm thinking about
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2014-06-09T16:12:19Z Krystof: http://paste.lisp.org/display/142831#1
2014-06-09T16:12:56Z Krystof: what I think this is testing for is that the type check for (SATISFIES BAR) is weakened out
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2014-06-09T19:00:06Z Krystof: ok, I give up
2014-06-09T19:00:22Z Krystof: where in the compiler is the code to generate type checks from leaf-type information?
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2014-06-09T19:07:32Z Krystof: assert-lvar-type / insert-cast-before
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2014-06-09T19:51:20Z Krystof: 16] most-positive-fixnum
2014-06-09T19:51:20Z Krystof: CORRUPTION WARNING in SBCL pid 30012(tid 140737353889536):
2014-06-09T19:51:26Z Krystof: remind me why I am doing this?
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2014-06-09T20:21:01Z Krystof: well I have totally failed in my mission
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2014-06-09T21:04:45Z Krystof: "IR2 type checking of unused values is not implemented."
2014-06-09T21:04:55Z Krystof: wahay!  finally an error message that I understand
2014-06-09T21:05:50Z nyef: Heh.
2014-06-09T21:06:12Z nyef: Oh, right, there was a bug on my short-list that involved CAST nodes.
2014-06-09T21:06:26Z Krystof: ;; FIXME
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2014-06-09T21:07:16Z Krystof: http://paste.lisp.org/display/142831#2
2014-06-09T21:07:27Z Krystof: ok, so I am definitely going to give up for today and probably for a long time
2014-06-09T21:07:37Z Krystof: but those would be my test cases if I continued
2014-06-09T21:08:14Z nyef: I don't understand declaration scope sufficiently to be able to argue the issue at all.
2014-06-09T21:08:34Z Krystof: I think I do understand declaration scope and I don't understand how to implement that scope in the compiler
2014-06-09T21:09:13Z Krystof: but maybe I don't understand declaration scope either
2014-06-09T21:15:51Z |3b|: are you saying foo6 should return T for 3?
2014-06-09T21:16:28Z |3b|: or 'is expected to' if not 'should'
2014-06-09T21:18:22Z Krystof: yes
2014-06-09T21:18:36Z Krystof: because the (the symbol x) is in speed-3/safety-0 code, so trusted implicitly
2014-06-09T21:18:55Z Krystof: and then the type inferencer should believe that y is a symbol, so symbolp will be derived to be true always
2014-06-09T21:19:30Z |3b| can see how that would be implemented that way, but not sure i agree it is correct
2014-06-09T21:19:57Z |3b|: well, the whole thing is non-conforming, so nasal demons etc
2014-06-09T21:20:18Z |3b|: actually, that one is conforming... so i think it should error
2014-06-09T21:20:39Z |3b|: never mind, not conforming
2014-06-09T21:20:45Z |3b| should probably just give up :/
2014-06-09T21:21:25Z |3b|: at the point where it evaluates (the symbol 3), it is non-conforming, right?
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2014-06-09T21:22:46Z Krystof: right
2014-06-09T21:23:48Z |3b|: aside from that, i'd argue (symbolp y) is a safe function call, so the value 3 is passed to SYMBOLP, which should error... anything beyond that is optimization, which arguably shouldn't change the semantics
2014-06-09T21:24:04Z |3b|: s/error/return NIL/
2014-06-09T21:24:44Z Krystof: meanwhile, I wonder why my apparently innocuous if slightly pessimizing change causes a failure to compile (defun random-fixnum () (random (1+ most-positive-fixnum)))
2014-06-09T21:25:03Z |3b| gets an error from (foo6 3) though
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2014-06-09T21:26:40Z Krystof: yeah, what we currently implement is not what I think we should do
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2014-06-09T21:31:36Z Krystof: http://paste.lisp.org/display/142835 # and now I'm really giving up
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2014-06-09T22:50:35Z dto: the ouya is kind of temperamental. sometimes it just doesn't want to boot
2014-06-09T22:52:44Z dto: even to its own os
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2014-06-09T22:52:58Z nyef: ... Which reminds me, I really should see if my BBB works or not.
2014-06-09T22:53:12Z nyef: Not that I can before the... 20th at the earliest.
2014-06-09T22:53:25Z dto: what's BBB
2014-06-09T22:53:41Z nyef: BeagleBone Black.
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2014-06-09T23:22:22Z stassats: i guess i need to make a 1.1.14 branch with some cherry picked patches
2014-06-09T23:23:40Z nyef: I'm just at the point where I'm realizing that I'm probably going to have to start maintaining my own SBCL tree, similar to how ITA^H^H^Hgoogle manages one for themselves.
2014-06-09T23:24:15Z stassats: that's why i don't like to update in production
2014-06-09T23:26:30Z stassats: so, this unboxed progressiveness would be solved by ensuring that all allocations are PAed?
2014-06-09T23:26:40Z nyef: Mmm. But I need a few things that are far, far more recent than the version that we're running in production. And some things that I have yet to WRITE, and thus will need to be backported.
2014-06-09T23:26:45Z stassats: because even if the test doesn't fail doesn't mean it didn't go away
2014-06-09T23:27:09Z stassats: s/didn't/did/
2014-06-09T23:27:37Z nyef: s/didn't go/went/ ?
2014-06-09T23:28:33Z stassats: and i haven't tried pkhuong's patch on ppc, it hangs there too, even if it doesn't use sb-safepoint
2014-06-09T23:28:54Z nyef: Oh dear, what have you run into in terms of a test case?
2014-06-09T23:29:13Z nyef: And threaded or non-threaded PPC?
2014-06-09T23:29:27Z stassats: gcing while trapping
2014-06-09T23:29:41Z nyef: (Since they have slightly different behavior WRT P-A.)
2014-06-09T23:29:42Z stassats: nyef: http://paste.lisp.org/display/142817#1
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2014-06-09T23:30:09Z nyef: Okay, so threaded?
2014-06-09T23:30:15Z stassats: sure
2014-06-09T23:31:35Z stassats: the interrupt handler allocates a sap, but it's not completely protected by PA, and your conservatism reduction changes broke it
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2014-06-09T23:31:50Z nyef: Typical.
2014-06-09T23:32:14Z nyef: You know, I have no idea why that SAP doesn't get stack-allocated in the first place, TBH.
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2014-06-09T23:33:56Z stassats: it's probably aligned enough and could be passed as a fixnum
2014-06-09T23:34:43Z stassats: but i guess it's not stack allocated because there are no stack allocation routines for the runtime
2014-06-09T23:34:46Z nyef: No, no... I mean allocate the boxed SAP object on the control stack...  Or the C stack.
2014-06-09T23:36:11Z nyef: We have the genesis header handy, how hard it is to union the struct with a double (for alignment purposes), slap in the appropriate header, and take a boxed reference?
2014-06-09T23:36:59Z stassats: but is it the only instance of such problems?
2014-06-09T23:37:16Z nyef: Oh, probably not.
2014-06-09T23:37:18Z stassats: or all other alloc_s are called from within PA?
2014-06-09T23:38:42Z nyef: ISTR there being a recentish thread on sbcl-devel (or on one of the bugs in the tracker) where I was advocating sorting out and documenting the API for doing Lisp heap allocation from alien code (which would include the runtime).
2014-06-09T23:40:04Z stassats: we need to get it right first
2014-06-09T23:41:04Z nyef: Mmm. And I proposed a mechanism. And, yes, we do need to do such things within the scope of P-A.
2014-06-09T23:41:27Z stassats: can PA be nested?
2014-06-09T23:41:40Z nyef: No.
2014-06-09T23:41:53Z stassats: it needs to check if it's in PA first?
2014-06-09T23:44:01Z pkhuong: stassats: PPC would need to somehow push its stuff somewhere the GC can see it.
2014-06-09T23:44:20Z stassats: like pinning?
2014-06-09T23:44:22Z pkhuong: yup
2014-06-09T23:44:51Z stassats: or just stack allocating
2014-06-09T23:45:07Z stassats: but that can't work everywhere
2014-06-09T23:45:18Z nyef: PPC control stack doesn't pin references, though.
2014-06-09T23:45:57Z stassats: for this SAP, the number stack will do
2014-06-09T23:46:12Z stassats: bot for an exposed API, not really
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2014-06-10T01:54:49Z pkhuong: how do you feel about fixing the immediate PA thing?
2014-06-10T01:55:27Z pkhuong: precise/C-stack-is-not-control-stack platforms could stash tagged pointers somewhere before leaving PA
2014-06-10T01:55:27Z nyef: Which of several current PA issues are you referring to?
2014-06-10T01:55:47Z pkhuong: the one with all our alloc_foo routines being broken
2014-06-10T01:56:02Z pkhuong: the diff on paste.lisp.org with the for trick
2014-06-10T01:56:32Z nyef: What do we actually allocate from C?
2014-06-10T01:56:44Z nyef: Is it just SAPs at the moment, and just in interrupt handlers?
2014-06-10T01:57:13Z pkhuong: SAPs are definitely causing issues.
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2014-06-10T01:59:08Z nyef: Hrm.
2014-06-10T01:59:37Z nyef: Looks like we also need alloc_number, and there's a similar issue with alloc_code_object.
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2014-06-10T02:01:48Z nyef: I'm thinking: it's clever, it's an improvement, and it's not sufficient.
2014-06-10T02:03:12Z nyef: Almost any time the runtime is manipulating boxed values, it needs to be in PA.
2014-06-10T02:06:59Z nyef: Or the value needs to already have been pinned, but I'm having trouble coming up with a mechanism for establishing a new pin without requiring PA.
2014-06-10T02:07:35Z nyef: Really, we need PA from the runtime even for cheneygc.
2014-06-10T02:08:08Z nyef: And the funcall interface isn't particularly safe, either.
2014-06-10T02:08:43Z nyef: Oh, and I'm pretty much swamped this month, so dealing with interrupt issues is fairly low on my list until July.
2014-06-10T02:19:03Z pkhuong: nyef: alloc_code_object is OK on gengc, iiuc.
2014-06-10T02:19:55Z nyef: Leaving aside the whole mess with CODE_PAGE_P, I might be inclined to believe you...  or at least take it on faith for the time being.
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2014-06-10T14:00:46Z Shinmera: it
2014-06-10T14:00:58Z Shinmera: whoops, wrong channel, sorry.
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2014-06-10T14:42:59Z Krystof: erikvarga: how's it going?  Would you like to chat?
2014-06-10T14:43:53Z oleo: what's the usual value of *debugger-hook* ?
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2014-06-10T14:44:42Z stassats: don't cross ask your questions, please
2014-06-10T15:05:52Z erikvarga: Krystof: I'm currently trying to get the unsigned ceiling transform to use inline arithmetic. Can we chat sometime tomorrow instead?
2014-06-10T15:05:59Z Krystof: sure
2014-06-10T15:08:15Z erikvarga: Thanks. Would 2pm your time 3pm my time be okay?
2014-06-10T15:08:23Z Krystof: yes, let's try that.  Putting you in :)
2014-06-10T15:09:46Z erikvarga: All right. Talk to you tomorrow :)
2014-06-10T15:16:04Z dto: stassats: does the new android support use the NativeActivity class?
2014-06-10T15:18:59Z dto: or rather, is there any documentation or source i should start reading to familiarize myself ?
2014-06-10T15:23:23Z stassats: no, it doesn't use anything like that
2014-06-10T15:23:33Z stassats: and there's nothing to read, naturally
2014-06-10T15:24:10Z dto: :)
2014-06-10T15:24:34Z dto: is there anywhere i can peek in the current source tree?
2014-06-10T15:25:43Z dto: i've been keeping detailed notes for the purpose of writing a complete HOWTO for doing sbcl games on android.
2014-06-10T15:26:22Z dto: so i could write some docs, if you need someone to write them. i have previous experience writing a chapter of the orgmode manual.
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2014-06-10T15:32:18Z stassats: you can't write games for android now
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2014-06-10T15:34:14Z dto: is that something that'll have to wait on a future release?
2014-06-10T15:35:04Z stassats: that's something that will have to wait, an undetermined amount of time
2014-06-10T15:35:39Z dto: ah i see your comment now on reddit. ok
2014-06-10T15:35:42Z Krystof: or made to happen, an undetermined but probably shorter amount of time
2014-06-10T15:36:16Z dto: stassats: are you referring specifically to the availability of sbcl.so?
2014-06-10T15:36:23Z stassats: yes
2014-06-10T15:39:02Z dto: ok, so is that required for something like the Android SDL port to work? i thought it would be possible to use the port's NDK build process to compile LISPBUILDER-SDL against that, and use the resulting binary
2014-06-10T15:39:22Z dto: forgive me if this is a dumb question. this is all new territory for me.
2014-06-10T15:39:51Z stassats: without sbcl.so, sbcl is practically useless on android
2014-06-10T15:41:43Z dto: what do you mean by "practically"? is this because NDK makes shared libs for inclusion in an APK and doesn't make the APK itself?
2014-06-10T15:41:56Z dto: just trying to understand the contours of the situation.
2014-06-10T15:43:40Z dto: still, you say something on reddit about running sbcl from within a java app----if i understand this correctly, this android SDL port implements the Java app part for you, and calls SDL on java events, etc
2014-06-10T15:44:24Z dto: i'm not trying to (for example) use android widgets to build a compliant GUI or such
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2014-06-10T15:44:35Z stassats: you need sbcl.so for that
2014-06-10T15:44:46Z nyef: G'morning all.
2014-06-10T15:45:20Z dto: okay stassats . well, let me know if there is anything i can do to help.
2014-06-10T15:45:31Z dto: hi nyef .
2014-06-10T15:45:59Z stassats: so, regarding alloc_ things, if it needs with-pinned-objects-like thing, then it means it has a dynamic extent, which means it can be allocated on the stack
2014-06-10T15:46:15Z stassats: that leaves alloc_code_object, which is called from lisp, but it's under without-gcing
2014-06-10T15:46:40Z pkhuong: stassats: not necessarily
2014-06-10T15:46:54Z pkhuong: it means that lisp code gets its hands on the object before the DX is left.
2014-06-10T15:47:41Z stassats: it's used only in things like signal and trap handlers
2014-06-10T15:47:56Z pkhuong: yes, and there is no guarantee that the handler won't stash, e.g., the SAP somewhere else.
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2014-06-10T15:49:07Z stassats: sbcl's handlers can be managed, and there's nothing exposed for working with the context saps for the user
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2014-06-10T15:50:53Z stassats: otherwise, how do you see pinning on precise GC without it having a dynamic extent?
2014-06-10T15:51:11Z stassats: just until it is passed to funcall0?
2014-06-10T15:51:30Z nyef: You... can't pass arguments to funcall0 anyway?
2014-06-10T15:52:10Z nyef: And, yes, I'm currently considering the entire funcall interface to be insufficiently GC-safe.
2014-06-10T15:52:25Z pkhuong: stassats: it's pinned at least until C code stop manipulating that object.
2014-06-10T15:52:46Z pkhuong: which isn't directly related to the object's lifetime.
2014-06-10T15:53:08Z stassats: why does it need saps at all? it can deal with unsigned longs
2014-06-10T15:53:34Z pkhuong: there's clearly an alpha thing
2014-06-10T15:54:28Z pkhuong: but apart from that, I'm pretty sure we only target ABIs that guarantee at least 4 byte alignment on the context struct.
2014-06-10T15:55:02Z stassats: the callback interface can manage unboxed unsigneds
2014-06-10T15:55:02Z nyef: Oh, ouch. We can't create boxed references to stack-allocated data on Alpha at all.
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2014-06-10T16:38:14Z foom: We're making/using a libsbcl.a for our build process for QPX now.
2014-06-10T16:39:57Z foom: The build process goes: 1) use sbcl to dump a core 2) Start core and dump all foreign symbols. 3) Link C runtime with extra C libraries, and a list of exported symbols from the list of foreign syms. 4) Stick core onto end of runtime using a python script.
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2014-06-11T14:43:57Z stassats: (dribble "file") => s-l-a-d => restart => error
2014-06-11T14:44:18Z stassats: but what to do? just close the dribble file when saving or reinstate it on starting?
2014-06-11T14:45:09Z brown`: stassats:  Are open files generally reinstated in restart?
2014-06-11T14:45:13Z Krystof: given that dribble's been called, it's almost certainly an interactive session
2014-06-11T14:45:37Z Krystof: so signalling an error at s-l-a-d with a sane CONTINUE restart which closes the file is what I'd suggest
2014-06-11T14:45:54Z stassats: makes sense too
2014-06-11T14:46:11Z stassats: i would find magically space eating files to be confusing
2014-06-11T14:49:18Z stassats: another option would be to close it, but give a warning
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2014-06-11T15:41:36Z Krystof: continue / abort seems least destructive to me
2014-06-11T15:43:17Z stassats: you can only have one CONTINUE/ABORT, if you continue something, the next time aborting won't restore the state
2014-06-11T15:43:48Z Krystof: true
2014-06-11T15:51:47Z stassats: and the user is determined to save-lisp-and-die, he will most probably choose to continue
2014-06-11T15:52:10Z stassats: not like there's anything much to do about dribbled streams
2014-06-11T15:52:52Z stassats: though an error is more noticeable
2014-06-11T15:57:40Z Krystof: I don't think that reinstating the dribbled stream is in any way sane, so I don't mind if the user chooses CONTINUE to slad
2014-06-11T16:02:55Z stassats: i'm sure there are other instances of such problems
2014-06-11T16:03:18Z stassats: (machine-version) had saved the machine version, e.g.
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2014-06-11T16:12:25Z stassats: oh, and i'm planning on removing trace-table, or what's left of it
2014-06-11T16:12:51Z stassats: i don't feel like it's the best way to get reliable backtraces
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2014-06-11T19:48:20Z Krystof: does anyone know how the github sbcl mirror works?
2014-06-11T19:48:32Z Krystof: as in, just how does it mirror sourceforge?
2014-06-11T19:48:39Z stassats: maybe _8hzp knows?
2014-06-11T19:50:45Z Krystof: yeah, or antifuchs.  Wait, where is antifuchs
2014-06-11T19:51:24Z Krystof: also, did you just get a github issue mail about specializers?
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2014-06-11T19:52:07Z stassats: i did
2014-06-11T19:52:35Z Krystof: ok
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2014-06-11T19:52:54Z stassats: and an email saying "you've been subscribed" before that
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2014-06-11T19:54:41Z Krystof: bah.  There goes my plan for minimally-intrusive, quiet development
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2014-06-11T19:56:26Z Krystof: I can't disable it for owners.  Sorry.
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2014-06-11T20:13:10Z pkhuong: we can ;)
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2014-06-11T20:23:31Z Krystof: we can what?
2014-06-11T20:23:47Z stassats: unsubscribe?
2014-06-11T20:25:30Z pkhuong: I'm creating a filter.
2014-06-11T20:25:46Z pkhuong: only my hundredth, by now.
2014-06-11T20:28:31Z scymtym: Krystof: should SPECIALIZER< return NIL or /= when there is no relation?
2014-06-11T20:33:30Z Krystof: I don't know
2014-06-11T20:34:26Z Krystof: I don't think anything currently depends on it
2014-06-11T20:34:30Z Krystof: but I could be wrong
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2014-06-11T20:37:06Z scymtym: Krystof: thanks; i'm writing a docstring with /= since that's what i have been doing :)
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2014-06-12T14:22:34Z nyef: G'morning all.
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2014-06-12T18:57:55Z stassats: overclocking to build sbcl faster, 2:30 at 4.4 GHz
2014-06-12T18:58:16Z stassats: compared to 2:55
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2014-06-12T19:04:10Z stassats: though i have slow ram, i reckon next gen cpu with faster ram and some overclocking can build in under 2 minutes
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2014-06-12T19:14:19Z stassats: max is 4.7 Ghz (without mucking with voltages) and 2:26
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2014-06-12T19:47:41Z nyef: ... You know, some of us still have hardware that takes more than half an hour to build SBCL... Or even half a DAY.
2014-06-12T19:50:56Z Krystof: including most arm development boards
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2014-06-12T20:01:03Z stassats: using (safety 0) build host sbcl also helps
2014-06-12T20:01:12Z stassats: without threads, sb-unicode, etc.
2014-06-12T20:01:57Z nyef: What about gencgc vs. cheneygc? Is one of them faster as a build host as well?
2014-06-12T20:02:15Z stassats: gencgc is faster, but i haven't controlled for other variables
2014-06-12T20:04:24Z stassats: threaded builds is another way to speed up things, but somebody needs to make that possible first
2014-06-12T20:04:37Z nyef: Any idea about how much faster gencgc is than cheneygc?
2014-06-12T20:05:29Z stassats: something 36 minutes vs 33 minutes, that order, the target was cheneygc, so, it could be faster with full gengc
2014-06-12T20:05:42Z nyef: Heh. In order to get threaded builds we'd at least need to sort out the dependency constraints...
2014-06-12T20:06:03Z stassats: i just think it's not worth the hassle
2014-06-12T20:06:19Z nyef: Not with sub-five-minute builds, no.
2014-06-12T20:06:23Z stassats: if your platform is slow, chances are, it doesn't have many cores
2014-06-12T20:06:54Z stassats: well, i would like sub minute builds
2014-06-12T20:07:33Z nyef: I'd *love* sub-minute builds. But I'm not about to buy hardware that would put me in that range.
2014-06-12T20:07:40Z stassats: my build host is 1.1.11, maybe current sbcl is faster
2014-06-12T20:07:48Z stassats: nyef: especially that none is available
2014-06-12T20:08:12Z stassats: maybe next decade
2014-06-12T20:08:26Z nyef: Only six years to go!
2014-06-12T20:08:36Z stassats: 5.5!
2014-06-12T20:09:09Z nyef: If last time round they were the Roaring Twenties, will they be the Snoring Twenties this time?
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2014-06-12T21:00:53Z pkhuong: stassats: high end Power boxes
2014-06-12T21:00:58Z pkhuong: they go to 6+ GHz
2014-06-12T21:01:03Z pkhuong: (stock)
2014-06-12T21:01:21Z stassats: but what about IPC?
2014-06-12T21:01:34Z pkhuong: it's pretty good.
2014-06-12T21:01:44Z pkhuong: IPC/$ is where it hurts
2014-06-12T21:02:38Z stassats: gcc compile farm has 3.5 GHz power 7, and they aren't that fast
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2014-06-12T21:04:33Z pkhuong: they also have huge last level caches nowadays
2014-06-12T21:04:42Z pkhuong: on-chip DRAM.
2014-06-12T21:05:35Z stassats: and SBCL isn't that optimize for ppc
2014-06-12T21:05:48Z stassats: no ppc64
2014-06-12T21:06:38Z pkhuong: there is that.
2014-06-12T21:06:50Z pkhuong: but we have the technology!
2014-06-12T21:07:59Z stassats: and it's really hard to find benchmarks for the non-x86 cpus
2014-06-12T21:08:54Z stassats: on the other hand, SBCL isn't that optimized for x86 either, things like SIMD
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2014-06-12T21:10:23Z stassats: and POWER8 ought to be available soon
2014-06-12T21:10:27Z stassats: for some $ of "available"
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2014-06-12T21:12:05Z pkhuong: its representation strategy feels like it's implicitly tuned for x86
2014-06-12T21:12:31Z stassats: what's that?
2014-06-12T21:13:39Z stassats: power8 3.4GHz can be had for a neat sum of 8K$
2014-06-12T21:14:40Z stassats: 4.1GHz is 30K$
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2014-06-12T21:38:28Z foom: anyone started porting sbcl to ppc64le yet? ;p
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2014-06-13T09:32:21Z girzel: hey folks, I'm using the Stumpwm window manager, compiled using SBCL. I'm on archlinux, so using SBCL 1.1.18. Stumpwm can be very laggy in detecting window-manager keypresses, depending on the swap situation. If I kill swap entirely, it's fast. If I allow Stumpwm to swap, it gets slow.
2014-06-13T09:32:50Z girzel: my question is, is there any way to control, from within Stumpwm, whether it swaps or not?
2014-06-13T09:32:57Z girzel: I mean during the compilation process
2014-06-13T09:33:47Z girzel: Or should I try to solve it externally, by finding a way to prevent the stumpwm process from swapping at all?
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2014-06-13T10:33:55Z Krystof: what is "it"?
2014-06-13T10:34:17Z Krystof: do you mean constructing a stumpwm binary that is guaranteed not to be sent to swap?
2014-06-13T10:34:53Z girzel: yup, that's about it
2014-06-13T10:36:00Z Krystof: I don't think you can do that at build-time
2014-06-13T10:36:03Z Krystof: the answers at http://stackoverflow.com/questions/578137/can-i-tell-linux-not-to-swap-out-a-particular-processes-memory
2014-06-13T10:36:06Z Krystof: might be helpful
2014-06-13T10:37:13Z girzel: the window manager needs to be able to catch its prefix key before the keystroke falls through to any open programs, and when stumpwm is written to swap, it becomes very bad at catching its prefix key. Killing swap altogether is the only solution I've found so far, though there might be others. Compiling sblc with :sb-core-compression helped a little, but only a little
2014-06-13T10:37:37Z girzel: right, it's looking like I'll have to do it through some process control
2014-06-13T10:37:44Z Krystof: I would expect sbcl with :sb-core-compression to be worse
2014-06-13T10:38:39Z Krystof: what's your /proc/sys/vm/swappiness?
2014-06-13T10:38:44Z girzel: sorry, you're right -- worse. Misread my notes.
2014-06-13T10:39:07Z girzel: it was :sb-xref-for-internals that gave me a subjective sense it was responding better, but that could have been wishful thinking
2014-06-13T10:39:10Z alpha-: why do you have swap in the first place?
2014-06-13T10:39:14Z alpha-: low end pc?
2014-06-13T10:39:34Z girzel: swappiness 60
2014-06-13T10:39:46Z alpha-: how much ram do you have?
2014-06-13T10:39:54Z girzel: archlinux defaults, I guess, and this is the first and only time it's ever caused me difficulty
2014-06-13T10:40:34Z Krystof: you could set swappiness to 10 for a more comfortable interactive use
2014-06-13T10:41:26Z girzel: 2GB, it's a 3-year-old laptop
2014-06-13T10:41:29Z Krystof: if you're really serious in investigating this, you could experiment with mlock()ing the tenured generation in your stumpwm core
2014-06-13T10:42:03Z Krystof: what I used to find was that my desktop environment (not necessarily stumpwm) would be totally miserable in the morning after update-locatedb ran overnight
2014-06-13T10:42:27Z Krystof: my perception is that this problem has broadly gone away, but that might be because I am RAM-rich these days
2014-06-13T10:42:51Z girzel: I only understood half of that, so it seems unlikely. Let me ask one more dumb question: would it be possible to make sure that only a *part* of the stumpwm process was never swapped? Ie, the top command loop?
2014-06-13T10:43:21Z girzel: I guess I'll just cut back on swappiness, or up the RAM...
2014-06-13T10:44:42Z Krystof: that's what mlock is for, sort of
2014-06-13T10:45:08Z Krystof: but finding the bits of memory that your stumpwm command loop needs to run is probably hard
2014-06-13T10:49:10Z girzel: and probably not worth it
2014-06-13T10:49:17Z girzel: thanks for the tips!
2014-06-13T10:49:21Z Krystof: good luck
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2014-06-13T16:44:27Z scymtym: Krystof: would it be acceptable for you if i rewrote history in the pattern-specializer branch sometime today or tomorrow?
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2014-06-13T17:47:57Z Krystof: scymtym: not a problem for me
2014-06-13T17:48:20Z scymtym: Krystof: thanks
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2014-06-14T11:18:55Z stassats: this STRING folding argument is getting more stupid, trying to use ad absurdum, and it's not absurd enough for some
2014-06-14T11:26:19Z Krystof: language lawyering is interesting
2014-06-14T11:26:35Z Krystof: everyone has a different text / pragmatism balance
2014-06-14T11:27:10Z Krystof: secretly, the text doesn't in fact mean anything at all on its own; it depends on a shared understanding of the meaning of words
2014-06-14T11:27:41Z Krystof: the CL standardizers discovered this when KCL came along, as a fresh implementation constructed out of the existing shared context
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2014-06-14T11:35:04Z scymtym: Krystof: pushed specializable master branch; history rewrite of pattern-specializer branch is next
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2014-06-14T17:31:53Z leuler: Hi stassats: Your commit 34eab161 broke building the manual: sb-bsd-sockets.texinfo tries to include fun-sb-bsd-sockets-get-protocol-by-name.texinfo but get-protocol-by-name no longer has a docstring.
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2014-06-14T17:40:23Z stassats: leuler: should be fixed, thanks
2014-06-14T17:40:34Z stassats: i haven't tried building the doc, though
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2014-06-14T17:46:37Z leuler: stassats: thanks, too. I will try and report back.
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2014-06-14T17:55:59Z leuler: stassats: I could successfully build the manual now.
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2014-06-15T02:11:31Z stassats: removing trace table gets rid of 128K
2014-06-15T02:21:06Z deepthought42: Hi sbcl! I just stumbled upon (okay was looking for ...) some files named *-android-* in the runtime directory ? Does this mean I can actually compile for and run sbcl on android ? That would just be great. I would also be willing to help test / develop as far as I can if there is still work to be done!
2014-06-15T02:21:37Z stassats: you can, for arm only, but you need to know how to compile it
2014-06-15T02:21:43Z stassats: it's not streamlined as of yet
2014-06-15T02:22:01Z deepthought42: any pointers as to how to do that ?
2014-06-15T02:22:13Z stassats: not really
2014-06-15T02:22:38Z stassats: but there will be easy build scripts
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2014-06-15T02:23:57Z deepthought42: okay, great! Something to meddle with on a rainy saturday ...
2014-06-15T03:36:00Z stassats: the choice of array-rank-limit == 65529 is strange
2014-06-15T03:36:56Z stassats: only all dimensions of 1 can make such an array
2014-06-15T03:38:28Z stassats: well, some of it can be not 1
2014-06-15T03:39:38Z stassats: and it actually typechecks for 16777216, not 65529
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2014-06-15T05:10:21Z deepthought42: so, about the arm-android cross compile, I have no idea what I am doing really, but my initial guess was to install the android-ndk and then just do sh make.sh --arch=arm-android
2014-06-15T05:11:12Z deepthought42: which gives me: "One of :GENCGC or :CHENEYGC must be enabled"
2014-06-15T05:12:03Z deepthought42: if I enable them in customize-target-features.lisp, I get: ":CHENEYGC not supported on selected architecture"
2014-06-15T05:12:20Z deepthought42: and the same for :GENCGC
2014-06-15T05:12:42Z deepthought42: anyone time for suggestions ?
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2014-06-15T05:29:26Z scymtym: deepthought42: i haven't built sbcl for android, and i don't know how to do that, but in sbcl terms "arm" is the "arch" and "android" the "os", so --arch=arm-android is probably incorrect
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2014-06-15T20:30:10Z pkhuong: this lifetime analysis bug is annoying
2014-06-15T20:30:26Z pkhuong: for some reason we insert multiple global conflict structs in the same block, for some alias TNs
2014-06-15T20:38:19Z pkhuong: ... looks like we never took into account the possibility that a block might be its own predecessor
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2014-06-15T20:46:38Z pkhuong: http://paste.lisp.org/display/142889 Don't know why we ever expected that to work.
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2014-06-16T18:08:12Z cracauer: hullo
2014-06-16T18:08:34Z cracauer: can I invite people to try my GC fixes? I still have an issue left.
2014-06-16T18:09:06Z cracauer: the seems clear but I can still make e.g. compile-file fail with NULLed words.  Then another full GC fixes it, as in the compiler works again.
2014-06-16T18:09:38Z cracauer: I must miss something trivial such as a scavenge part.  Hoping a pair of fresh eyes might spot it instantly.
2014-06-16T18:10:52Z cracauer: http://www.cons.org/cracauer/sbcl-gc-patches-201406/
2014-06-16T18:16:47Z antoszka: cracauer: out of curiosity – what's the google/ita diff?
2014-06-16T18:17:45Z cracauer: it is just the remainder of ITA specific changes that we never committed upstream for no particularly good or bad reason
2014-06-16T18:17:51Z cracauer: all harmless stuff
2014-06-16T18:17:56Z antoszka: ah
2014-06-16T18:18:13Z cracauer: the major thing is ending an endless loop that only QPX exposes in the compiler :-)
2014-06-16T18:19:12Z foom: actually that went upstream already
2014-06-16T18:19:35Z cracauer: yeah I'm a bit behind here, still 1.1.9
2014-06-16T18:19:38Z foom: the rest of that stuff is mostly things that probably should be dropped.
2014-06-16T18:19:46Z cracauer: we'll sync up when I get that GC fixed.
2014-06-16T18:20:32Z cracauer: I need the before-gc hook, though
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2014-06-16T18:20:45Z cracauer: the tar-> find change fixed something real
2014-06-16T18:22:11Z cracauer: and I like the anon core as an option, although you could argue that just using the gziped one does the same job better (and both waste physical memory)
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2014-06-17T14:26:33Z scymtym: Krystof: i think i finally have pattern-specializers figured out algorithmically; do you have time to discuss the basic idea at some point?
2014-06-17T14:41:32Z pkhuong: scymtym: iirc, that problem is trivially NP hard, if you allow arbitrary patterns ;)
2014-06-17T14:42:24Z scymtym: pkhuong: right, only a best-effort subset that i want to support
2014-06-17T14:43:32Z scymtym: only certain kinds of guard patterns have a chance of working properly for example
2014-06-17T14:45:48Z scymtym: also, we develop the matching engine, "only" specializers based on it
2014-06-17T14:45:55Z pkhuong: I assume you've seen ftp://publications.ai.mit.edu/ai-publications/2001/AITR-2001-006.pdf.
2014-06-17T14:45:57Z scymtym: s/we/we don't/
2014-06-17T14:48:53Z scymtym: pkhuong: i didn't see that, thanks
2014-06-17T15:05:34Z scymtym: from skimming: they use qualifiers and seem to restrict/hijack method combination (with a custom DEFMETHOD macro), we use specializers; they seem to iterate through an ordered set of methods, checking the respective predicates, we compile a big OPTIMA:MATCH into the discriminating function
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2014-06-17T16:41:32Z Krystof: scymtym: I should have time tomorrow, either during the day or in the evening
2014-06-17T16:41:35Z Krystof: famous last words
2014-06-17T16:41:42Z scymtym: :)
2014-06-17T16:42:10Z scymtym: thank you, that would be very helpful
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2014-06-17T18:41:59Z stassats: turns out, there is only one code-component for all assembly routines
2014-06-17T18:42:45Z stassats: which makes sb-sprof always report generic+, even if it's generic*
2014-06-17T18:43:32Z stassats: it also wrongly calculates the size of the code
2014-06-17T18:43:38Z stassats: words vs bytes
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2014-06-17T19:26:51Z stassats: so, CEILING in gc-internal.h is actually not ceiling?
2014-06-17T19:27:15Z stassats: but should be called ALIGN
2014-06-17T19:28:47Z pkhuong: isn't it align up?
2014-06-17T19:29:55Z stassats: it is
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2014-06-17T19:46:38Z stassats: "Final object pointer 0x3fdd8172d21141c8, start 0x1000060000, end 0x1003288000"
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2014-06-17T20:10:47Z stassats: got a fully working no trace-table build
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2014-06-17T20:26:21Z pkhuong: nice (?)
2014-06-17T20:26:26Z pkhuong: how much space does it save?
2014-06-17T20:26:48Z stassats: 128K
2014-06-17T20:27:45Z stassats: most of the savings are from getting rid of the trace-table-offset slot, which was used for instruction size in bytes
2014-06-17T20:28:07Z stassats: and storing the instruction size in byte, not words, instead
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2014-06-17T20:41:22Z stassats: and non-gencgc allocate-code-object vops are left to be adjusted
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2014-06-17T20:49:29Z stassats: isn't alloc_number broken on x86-64?
2014-06-17T20:52:11Z pkhuong: everywhere.
2014-06-17T20:52:48Z stassats: i rather meant the fixnum case
2014-06-17T21:02:10Z stassats: cheneygc, of course, dies
2014-06-17T21:28:41Z stassats: off-by one and a magic constant later, cheneygc works too
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2014-06-17T21:42:54Z stassats: why does simple-fun need the self slot?
2014-06-17T21:44:42Z Krystof: so that the calling sequence for simple-funs, closures and funcallable instances is the same
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2014-06-17T21:45:35Z stassats: so, it's an extra memory access for simple-funs?
2014-06-17T21:45:53Z Krystof: yes
2014-06-17T21:46:09Z stassats: couldn't they share the pointer to the code-object instead?
2014-06-17T21:46:16Z Krystof: one extra memory read of something that should be in cache already
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2014-06-17T21:47:01Z Krystof: what is “they”?
2014-06-17T21:47:08Z stassats: funs
2014-06-17T21:48:08Z stassats: probably closure values and code object both being :rest is the stopper
2014-06-17T21:49:10Z Krystof: right, you need at least one indirection for one of those, unless you start doing stuff like putting things before the object header like with raw slots
2014-06-17T21:49:48Z stassats: though i'm unclear on how is it that CODE for simple-fun is :rest, but it's not allocated together
2014-06-17T21:56:01Z stassats: i'm really unclear about the whole function calling
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2014-06-17T22:00:11Z stassats: maybe that's because slime is not being perfectly honest
2014-06-17T22:00:19Z stassats: incidentally, i think i broke slime
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2014-06-17T22:03:51Z stassats: ok, slime is fixed with respect to the trace-table
2014-06-17T22:05:57Z stassats: ok, i was of the wrong impression what was in the self slot, it's a pointer to the code object, but %simple-fun-self just returns the function itself
2014-06-17T22:06:51Z stassats: if there are several entry points, how does it know where in the code-object to jump?
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2014-06-17T22:14:59Z stassats: ok, it's allocated sequentially, inside the code object, even though i have a hard time seeing how
2014-06-17T22:20:34Z stassats: looks like the function object is allocated inside the assembly segment
2014-06-17T22:20:51Z stassats: hidden by .ENTRY (LAMBDA NIL)()
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2014-06-17T22:26:09Z stassats: and i haven't tried to fit closures yet
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2014-06-18T04:00:51Z rukubites: Anyone here?
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2014-06-18T05:49:07Z flip214_: no, just us bots.
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2014-06-18T06:18:57Z alexander-01: hey guys just wrote a procedure to add matrix and I have a problem with a rounding error where it answers 14.8 - 10.2 - 4.6 as being a small number whereas it should read zero .. my code is at http://pastebin.com/fJxpHRdp .. I am adding three matrix using (add-matrix '()(add-matrix '()'())) any ideas on whats going wrong?
2014-06-18T06:19:18Z Bike: your code is fine, floats are floats
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2014-06-18T06:20:26Z alexander-01: Bike:how can I change the code so it answers correctly?
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2014-06-18T06:20:33Z Bike: it is answering correctly
2014-06-18T06:20:45Z Bike: floating point arithmetic is not exact in the way you are apparently thinking
2014-06-18T06:21:37Z Bike: also, this question is probably more suited to #lisp, you'll get the same result in most places using IEEE
2014-06-18T06:21:38Z alexander-01: yeah I know I have a problem in understanding whats going on .. just dont know what and how to deal with it ..
2014-06-18T06:22:06Z Bike: there's nothing to deal with, the code is doing what it's supposed to.
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2014-06-18T06:25:30Z alexander-01: got me thinking now ..:p gonna have to read some more .. thanks for letting me know the code is correct and answers whats supposed too
2014-06-18T06:25:41Z alexander-01: its supposed too
2014-06-18T06:27:08Z Bike: http://floating-point-gui.de/
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2014-06-18T06:28:39Z alexander-01: thanks
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2014-06-18T14:36:54Z scymtym_: Krystof: when would be a convenient time for you to have our discussion?
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2014-06-18T14:46:12Z Krystof: scymtym: it's looking like after childrens' bedtime would be better
2014-06-18T14:46:31Z Krystof: one of them is unwell, so my daytime freedom got eaten  :-(
2014-06-18T14:47:08Z scymtym: Krystof: sorry to hear that
2014-06-18T14:47:58Z scymtym: until later then (but don't feel bad if you can't find the time)
2014-06-18T14:50:40Z stassats: and sbcl is still crashing, even older versions before the conservativeness patches, but in some other strange way
2014-06-18T14:52:39Z stassats: and with no angle for a test case
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2014-06-18T15:01:02Z pkhuong: stassats: what bug are you looking at?
2014-06-18T15:01:35Z stassats: probably related to the alloc_*
2014-06-18T15:01:56Z stassats: but i'm now using 1.1.14, before the changes that exposed them
2014-06-18T15:02:18Z stassats: maybe they cause problems even before that, just in a different context
2014-06-18T15:02:28Z pkhuong: that class of bug was always around, just less likely to show up for unboxed objects
2014-06-18T15:02:50Z pkhuong: try with the PA fix to alloc_foo?
2014-06-18T15:03:01Z stassats: will try next
2014-06-18T15:03:10Z pkhuong: I'll try to clean that patch up sunday
2014-06-18T15:03:31Z stassats: but it seems to be happening regularly now, whereas with 1.1.3 it didn't
2014-06-18T15:22:01Z stassats: "unexpect forwarding pointer in scavenge: 0x10895a80a0, start=0x10895a8000, n=%" is one of the errors
2014-06-18T15:22:49Z pkhuong: might be a different bug
2014-06-18T15:25:10Z stassats: "n=%" isn't nice
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2014-06-18T19:03:14Z Krystof: scymtym: ok, I have two sleeping children, and I'm not yet asleep myself
2014-06-18T19:03:36Z scymtym: Krystof: great
2014-06-18T19:03:53Z scymtym: how should we proceed? form a separate channel?
2014-06-18T19:05:22Z Krystof: meh, everyone else can listen in and offer wisdom
2014-06-18T19:05:38Z Krystof: we're spamming everyone with our issues, we might as well chat here too
2014-06-18T19:06:10Z brown`: I like to listen in ...
2014-06-18T19:06:59Z scymtym: ok, where should we begin?
2014-06-18T19:08:53Z scymtym: i mean agenda-wise: roadmap for code/paper? current algorithm/implementation?
2014-06-18T19:10:09Z Krystof: I think roadmap for code might be good
2014-06-18T19:10:18Z Krystof: paper can follow when code is more like complete :-)
2014-06-18T19:10:57Z scymtym: sure. should i try and outline the current algorithm first?
2014-06-18T19:11:34Z scymtym: (mainly concerns https://github.com/sbcl/specializable/issues/1)
2014-06-18T19:11:38Z Krystof: sure
2014-06-18T19:12:27Z scymtym: the most recent figure in issue #1 can probably serve as an illustration
2014-06-18T19:13:14Z Krystof: ok
2014-06-18T19:13:16Z scymtym: for each required formal parameter of pattern-generic-function, there is a list of pattern-specializers
2014-06-18T19:14:12Z scymtym: these can be made into a graph with potentially multiple connected components via the relations implemented by PATTERN-MORE-SPECIFIC-P
2014-06-18T19:14:36Z scymtym: (see first figure in the issue for an example with multiple components)
2014-06-18T19:14:52Z Krystof: right
2014-06-18T19:16:08Z scymtym: for use by GENERALIZER-OF-USING-CLASS, a big OPTIMA:MATCH form is constructed and compiled for each formal parameter
2014-06-18T19:16:30Z scymtym: this is done as follows (complicated part starts here :):
2014-06-18T19:17:05Z scymtym: well, complicated to explain, at least
2014-06-18T19:17:40Z scymtym: for each connected component, traverse specializer in topological-most-specific-first order
2014-06-18T19:18:17Z scymtym: for each traversed specializer, add a clause to the OPTIMA:MATCH form, most-specific attempted first
2014-06-18T19:20:05Z scymtym: if one such clause matches the argument at invocation time, return a PATTERN-GENERALIZER containing the (static) list all less-specific specializers in the component (starting at and including the one from which the clause was formed)
2014-06-18T19:20:29Z Krystof: this is the 7-line algorithm in the issue?  under the assumption that there's a DAG?
2014-06-18T19:20:45Z scymtym: yes
2014-06-18T19:21:00Z Krystof: ok, here's the most likely counterexample: I think it is one, but I'm not sure yet :)
2014-06-18T19:21:33Z Krystof: consider a pattern gf with two methods: one on (cons X (quote 1)), and one on (cons (quote 0) Y)
2014-06-18T19:22:06Z Krystof: passing '(0 . 1) to that should get a generalizer with *both* specializers
2014-06-18T19:23:08Z Krystof: yet under more-specific-p... actually I don't know what more-specific-p would say, but I suspect it would treat them as two unrelated patterns
2014-06-18T19:23:28Z scymtym: right, it would return /=
2014-06-18T19:23:53Z scymtym: (it does)
2014-06-18T19:25:04Z scymtym: ok, so clauses for each connected component may have to get a shot then?
2014-06-18T19:26:23Z Krystof: yes
2014-06-18T19:26:32Z Krystof: that probably fixes that issue...
2014-06-18T19:27:31Z Krystof: now, if we join the components by having a (cons Z W) specializer, what happens?
2014-06-18T19:28:20Z Krystof: passing '(0 . 1) is still problematic, isn't it?
2014-06-18T19:28:39Z scymtym: i think so
2014-06-18T19:29:32Z Krystof: there's a distinction between two possible more-specific-p answers, isn't there?  there's "unrelated" and there's "definitely disjoint"
2014-06-18T19:29:53Z Krystof: so (cons X (quote 1)) and (cons (quote 0) Y) are unrelated, but (cons X (quote 1)) and (cons X (quote 2)) are disjoint
2014-06-18T19:30:21Z scymtym: yes, something like seems to be needed
2014-06-18T19:30:32Z scymtym: s/like/like that/
2014-06-18T19:30:43Z Krystof: the point being that to get the set of specializers you need the transitive closure of all the ones related by more-specific-p, and unrelated ones need to be tested for
2014-06-18T19:31:43Z scymtym: i have to think about that for a moment
2014-06-18T19:32:01Z Krystof: this feels like it's related to some other problems I've read about but haven't implemented
2014-06-18T19:32:20Z Krystof: e.g. moralization and message-passing in bayesian networks
2014-06-18T19:32:53Z Krystof: really what we need is pkhuong to tell us that this is obviously analogous to a solved problem (or obviously NP-Hard, or obviously Turing-impossible)
2014-06-18T19:36:22Z scymtym: would it make sense to break leaf nodes out of connected components when they are not disjoint to their siblings and then test clauses for each component as before?
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2014-06-18T19:38:32Z Krystof: ... maybe
2014-06-18T19:39:16Z Krystof: that might be as much precision as I can manage this evening
2014-06-18T19:39:52Z scymtym: i will experiment with your counterexample and that idea
2014-06-18T19:40:02Z scymtym: do you have time for one more aspect?
2014-06-18T19:40:05Z Krystof: sure
2014-06-18T19:40:54Z scymtym: the color-coding in the most figure is about make available bindings of pattern variables in all applicable methods
2014-06-18T19:41:40Z scymtym: (assuming it is still somehow possible to determine a list of multiple specializers by successfully matching the most specific of their patterns)
2014-06-18T19:42:12Z scymtym: in the figure, corresponding parts of patterns in a component share a color
2014-06-18T19:42:40Z Krystof: right
2014-06-18T19:43:42Z scymtym: when bindings are generated from one matching clause, the pattern structure is walked and each element that corresponds to a variable in or more other patterns in the component is augmented to capture a value for that variable
2014-06-18T19:44:31Z Krystof: yes
2014-06-18T19:45:03Z scymtym: then by means of some bookkeeping, method bodies extracted these values and bind them to the respective method-local names
2014-06-18T19:45:44Z Krystof: yes
2014-06-18T19:46:09Z scymtym: one second
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2014-06-18T19:47:28Z scymtym: does the binding part make sense (apart from technical issues involved in the above mentioned bookkeeping)?
2014-06-18T19:48:18Z Krystof: I think so.
2014-06-18T19:48:50Z Krystof: I suppose there might be some difficulty when two distinct variable names refer to the same structure in the pattern
2014-06-18T19:49:01Z Krystof: but maybe not
2014-06-18T19:49:30Z scymtym: i think it's always resolvable within each method
2014-06-18T19:49:46Z Krystof: ok
2014-06-18T19:50:07Z scymtym: cases like (defmethod foo ((a (pattern (cons a b))))) are checked separately (introducing a twice)
2014-06-18T19:51:57Z Krystof: ok, and each method does its own pattern variable binding.  That sounds unambiguous, then
2014-06-18T19:53:43Z scymtym: there is a complication for (and …) patterns (as always with intersections it seems), but at least for the examples i could find, those can be handled as well
2014-06-18T19:54:20Z scymtym: optima also has "place" patterns, but i haven't even tried to do something with those yet
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2014-06-18T19:56:14Z Krystof: gosh.  That's... weird.  Probably not the highest priority to support
2014-06-18T19:56:39Z scymtym: i think issue #3 will need some work, but maybe that can wait until the fundamental and risky to try out stuff has progressed some more?
2014-06-18T19:59:14Z Krystof: sure :-)
2014-06-18T20:00:04Z scymtym: proceeding to "roadmap" then?
2014-06-18T20:01:08Z Krystof: ok.  One question is about extra support needed from sbcl itself
2014-06-18T20:01:51Z Krystof: I see a few things: the specializer-type-declaration thing, the make-method-lambda adaptation (including the bit of code in PCL that tests for there being exactly one applicable method on make-method-lambda)
2014-06-18T20:01:55Z Krystof: anything else?
2014-06-18T20:02:30Z scymtym: nothing i can think of right now
2014-06-18T20:03:59Z scymtym: for pattern-specializers, access to specializers in make-method-lambda is the crucial thing
2014-06-18T20:05:17Z scymtym: in specializable, adding an argument-position parameter to GENERALIZER-OF-USING-CLASS would make GENERALIZER*S*-OF-USING-CLASS unnecessary
2014-06-18T20:06:05Z Krystof: yeah, that would fix the infinite loop problem and is probably sensible besides
2014-06-18T20:06:32Z Krystof: so that complicated generic functions can have different behaviours at different arg positions
2014-06-18T20:07:15Z scymtym: yes, i can imagine that having other uses
2014-06-18T20:07:16Z Krystof: I'm convinced that that or something like it is necessary to deal with heterogenous extended gfs (all our examples so far are pretty simple, one-arg-special-case or nearly so)
2014-06-18T20:08:44Z scymtym: how about dispatching on document pathnames with patterns and content types at the same time in a request handling generic function? :)
2014-06-18T20:09:10Z scymtym: the other change in specializable is the ability to inject arguments into emf calls. pattern-generic-functions do that for binding vectors
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2014-06-18T20:10:19Z Krystof: heh, that's the "future work" section :)
2014-06-18T20:10:34Z Krystof: injecting args into emf calls is I think a classic MOP example
2014-06-18T20:10:51Z scymtym: well, i needed it, so there is an implementation :)
2014-06-18T20:11:00Z scymtym: how is it done classically?
2014-06-18T20:11:16Z Krystof: there's perhaps even an example in AMOP which implements a (this-method) function alongside (next-method-p) I think
2014-06-18T20:12:55Z scymtym: in a sense, what i did is implemented within the possibilities of the MOP since compute-discriminating-function and make-method-lambda cooperate to achieve it
2014-06-18T20:13:06Z Krystof: ah, it might be that it's done classically by messing around with call-method and method combination
2014-06-18T20:13:19Z Krystof: gah, all my google terms give me is my own papers
2014-06-18T20:13:49Z Krystof: and of course my copy of AMOP is 10 miles away
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2014-06-18T20:14:32Z scymtym: w.r.t. specializable, i added the ability for generic functions to compute "effective arguments" based an actual arguments and generalizers
2014-06-18T20:15:20Z Krystof: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/wO5q9jsEEO4
2014-06-18T20:15:52Z scymtym: each pattern-generalizer can add a binding vector that way
2014-06-18T20:19:04Z scymtym: http://paste.lisp.org/display/142933 is the relevant change
2014-06-18T20:22:29Z Krystof: ; TODO could be done before invocation time
2014-06-18T20:22:35Z Krystof: I wonder what this means?
2014-06-18T20:23:04Z Krystof: but also I think I might be falling asleep
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2014-06-18T20:23:20Z scymtym: the IF is executed when the generic function is invoked
2014-06-18T20:23:44Z stassats: what is the advantage of having one code-component contain several functions?
2014-06-18T20:23:56Z scymtym: but it is known in advance whether a "compute effective arguments function" has been supplied
2014-06-18T20:24:08Z stassats: so that local functions can do near calls?
2014-06-18T20:24:38Z stassats: shared constants, but on things like ARM, that makes constants to be far away and blow out the 12-bit offset limit
2014-06-18T20:24:52Z scymtym: Krystof: thanks for feedback
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2014-06-18T20:30:20Z Krystof: ah, right
2014-06-18T20:30:37Z pkhuong: stassats: near calls are definitely useful.
2014-06-18T20:36:16Z scymtym: Krystof: i have to leave for now as well. thanks again and have a good evening and night
2014-06-18T20:38:53Z stassats: make-code-component isn't really telling the truth, the unboxed objects actually contain function headers with boxed objects in them
2014-06-18T20:39:03Z stassats: but those are scavenged through the entry-points slots
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2014-06-19T12:11:13Z antoszka: guys, is there a multipage version of the sbcl manual available somewhere?
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2014-06-19T12:11:22Z antoszka: I'd like to print some chapters for offline reading.
2014-06-19T12:16:29Z Krystof: for printing I'd suggest using the PDF
2014-06-19T12:17:29Z Krystof: otherwise, if you look at the html-stamp target in doc/manual/Makefile, it should be obvious how to make a multipage version
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2014-06-19T16:19:55Z cracauer: Still trying to bait somebody into trying my GC patches and maybe spot that bit where a double GC needed to clean up some debris.
2014-06-19T16:20:11Z cracauer: Could it help if I put in a tarball into of a stack of GIT ids and diffs?
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2014-06-19T16:29:43Z hlavaty: :FP-MODE-INHERITANCE-THREADS test fails on HEAD x86 linux: The assertion (= FP-MODE THREAD-FP-MODE) failed with FP-MODE = 1073742413, THREAD-FP-MODE = 589.
2014-06-19T16:48:19Z cracauer: http://www.cons.org/cracauer/sbcl-gc-patches-201406/sbcl-with-gc-patches-active-will-show-problem-with-slam.tar.gz
2014-06-19T16:48:28Z cracauer: http://www.cons.org/cracauer/sbcl-gc-patches-201406/
2014-06-19T16:48:32Z cracauer: has instructions
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2014-06-19T20:25:07Z cracauer: please hold back if you plan to look at my diff
2014-06-19T20:25:25Z cracauer: I think I know the current screwup, weak pointer treatment.
2014-06-19T20:25:33Z cracauer: not weak enough!
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2014-06-19T23:27:20Z scymtym: this is known, right? "no transport function for object 0x06f87fcf (widetag 0x3)" (https://ci.cor-lab.org/job/sbcl-master/545/featureset=1,label=ubuntu_trusty_64bit/console)
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2014-06-20T11:43:45Z hlavaty: verbosity dissappeared from sb-debug, what is the replacement?
2014-06-20T11:48:55Z hlavaty: there is probably obsolete comment describing VERBOSITY above PRINT-FRAME-CALL
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2014-06-22T04:14:57Z dto: hi. i'm a little unclear on how to get SBCL running on android. i don't think i can use the linux binary download, is that correct? I will have to cross compile?
2014-06-22T04:15:25Z dto: i read the report about someone getting it running on a rooted android device
2014-06-22T04:15:50Z dto: i got one of these babies fired up http://matricom.net/products/g-box-midnight-mx2/
2014-06-22T04:15:51Z dto: :)
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2014-06-22T12:44:36Z hitecnologys: Greetings. Have the getaddrinfo bug been fixed already or it's still present?
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2014-06-22T19:50:15Z dto: stassats: hello. i have a question about getting to an SBCL repl on Android. should i use the ArmHF binary that's on the website? or do i need to cross-compile using a linux host?
2014-06-22T19:50:55Z stassats: there is no android binaries on the site
2014-06-22T19:51:11Z stassats: and to compile it you need to have a very good understanding of the build system
2014-06-22T19:54:40Z dto: i could read the scripts, and relevant documentation if necessary. I'd like to try building it. I did the same with CCL recently (a tricky cross compile) and got up to the point of loading quicklisp and compiling against the SDL libs. now i'm trying to do the same with sbcl
2014-06-22T20:08:07Z dto: i'll just start reading.
2014-06-22T20:08:43Z stassats: don't you have better things to do?
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2014-06-22T20:25:52Z scymtym: in (SHARED-INITIALIZE :AFTER STD-CLASS …), isn't the ERROR call after INVALID-SUPERCLASS redundant as of fe027d69 (src/pcl/std-class.lisp:450)?
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2014-06-22T20:32:22Z dto: stassats are you saying it isn't going to be worthwhile?
2014-06-22T20:32:42Z stassats: i am
2014-06-22T20:33:06Z dto: ok.
2014-06-22T20:33:35Z stassats: were you able to display things with libsdl on ccl android ?
2014-06-22T20:34:14Z dto: not yet. init_sdl fails, i can get backtraces etc. i am working on getting better debug info.
2014-06-22T20:34:53Z stassats: i don't think you can
2014-06-22T20:34:54Z dto: i've been in touch with the developer of the android SDL port i'm using
2014-06-22T20:36:27Z dto: i have thus far only tried it on the ouya, i have a 2nd much better box now though
2014-06-22T20:40:45Z dto: stassats: do you mean , you don't think i can display stuff with ccl android? or that i can't get better debug info than a backtrace
2014-06-22T20:40:56Z stassats: the former
2014-06-22T20:41:14Z dto: oh. why's that?
2014-06-22T20:41:52Z stassats: not enough java
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2014-06-22T20:42:18Z dto: my guess is that i can't get the screen/sound access i want as an "app"
2014-06-22T20:42:27Z dto: unless i have a java app wrapper.
2014-06-22T20:42:31Z stassats: right
2014-06-22T20:43:26Z dto: this is why i am using an android SDL port that uses custom java wrappers around libSDL shared libraries, to build an app
2014-06-22T20:43:51Z stassats: how will that help with ccl?
2014-06-22T20:44:11Z stassats: or is there ccl.so now?
2014-06-22T20:44:28Z dto: well yes it builds aarmcl.so and loads that,
2014-06-22T20:44:33Z dto: one moment.
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2014-06-22T20:45:23Z dto: stassats: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.openmcl.devel/7511
2014-06-22T20:45:50Z dto: aarmcl.so is the ccl kernel as a shared object,
2014-06-22T20:46:03Z stassats: can it coexists with the dalvikvm?
2014-06-22T20:46:15Z dto: aarmcl.image is the heap image i'd like to build, with 2x0ng compiled in
2014-06-22T20:46:22Z stassats: if so, then you're god, but sbcl doesn't have sbcl.so
2014-06-22T20:46:25Z dto: i'm not sure the answer to that.
2014-06-22T20:46:38Z dto: ok i think i understand the issue now.
2014-06-22T20:46:51Z stassats: s/god/good/
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2014-06-22T20:53:04Z drmeiste_: Does SBCL trace roots for literals in compiled code or does it compile literals into constant memory?
2014-06-22T20:53:53Z stassats: constants are referenced from the code object
2014-06-22T20:54:08Z stassats: you may call it a function object
2014-06-22T20:56:24Z drmeiste_: thx
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2014-06-22T23:10:09Z drmeiste_: When you say "referenced from the code object" - how does that work?   I'm imagining a pointer passed to the compiled code that contains an array of literals and the code uses that pointer and an integer index to lookup the literals?
2014-06-22T23:10:59Z stassats: offset from the PC
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2014-06-22T23:14:44Z drmeiste_: The PC is the program counter register?  But that's changing all the time.  Do you mean the address of each literal is calculated using an offset from whatever the PC is at the moment of access?
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2014-06-22T23:15:22Z stassats: PC is always the same where its accessed
2014-06-22T23:15:54Z stassats: and, since it's an offset, the code can be moved, PIC
2014-06-22T23:17:04Z drmeiste_: Is this written up anywhere?   I'm not visualizing the PC being the same where it's accessed.
2014-06-22T23:17:38Z stassats: PC is the address of the "current" instruction
2014-06-22T23:17:43Z drmeiste_: got it
2014-06-22T23:18:00Z stassats: (it may be the address of the next, but that's of no importance)
2014-06-22T23:18:45Z stassats: so, [A][B][C] MOV X, PC-3 will get you "A" in X
2014-06-22T23:19:49Z drmeiste_: And [A][B][C] MOV X, PC-3; MOV Y, PC-3;  Will put "A" in X and "B" in Y
2014-06-22T23:19:58Z stassats: right
2014-06-22T23:20:53Z stassats: and of course there's x86, where it has to use absolute addresses and fix them up upon movement / loading
2014-06-22T23:21:06Z drmeiste_: Got it - so because SBCL can lay out the data with the code, it knows where the data is relative to each instruction.
2014-06-22T23:23:28Z drmeiste_: I wonder how I could do that with LLVM.  I have to call C++ functions to create data at load-time (so that they are certified C++ objects)).   But in the scheme above [A][B][C] are just three pointers - right?
2014-06-22T23:23:53Z stassats: right
2014-06-22T23:25:18Z drmeiste_: Currently I keep literals in an array associated with each LLVM module - it works but it's a bit clumsy.    I seems more natural to associate a functions literals with the function itself.
2014-06-22T23:26:33Z drmeiste_: The problem I'm running into at the moment is these arrays of literals are not being updated by the compacting garbage collector and so they get stale and everything goes kerplop.
2014-06-22T23:27:12Z drmeiste_: So I was enquiring about alternate approaches.   - Thanks.
2014-06-22T23:28:56Z stassats: so, you just need to allocate the necessary space in the function object, can llvm do PC-relative access?
2014-06-22T23:29:57Z drmeiste_: I'm just looking into that.
2014-06-22T23:30:39Z drmeiste_: Because I currently maintain another pointer - doing it relative to PC is a nice idea.
2014-06-22T23:30:52Z drmeiste_: It would eliminate that pointer
2014-06-22T23:31:18Z drmeiste_: Is that a commonly used term?   "PC-relative access"?
2014-06-22T23:34:32Z stassats: that's probably too specific
2014-06-22T23:34:41Z stassats: search for constants
2014-06-22T23:36:34Z drmeiste_: LLVM might even do that as an optimization -   LLVM defined Modules - they contain functions, globals and symbol table entries.  You generate code for a module at a time and functions within the modules access globals within the modules.
2014-06-22T23:37:40Z drmeiste_: Does the SBCL garbage collector scan these pointers?
2014-06-22T23:38:06Z drmeiste_: If they are constants - why bother?
2014-06-22T23:38:07Z stassats: of course, and adjusts them after moving
2014-06-22T23:38:36Z stassats: drmeiste_: functions can be redefined
2014-06-22T23:39:30Z drmeiste_: I suppose I could do something like that - I could put the literals within the modules directly.   I just have to figure out how to have the garbage collector scan them.
2014-06-22T23:40:11Z drmeiste_: I might be creating work for myself by maintaining literals myself.
2014-06-22T23:41:41Z drmeiste_: I could declare globals within the module that contain pointers to the literals.  I already have a loadTimeInitialization function that runs when the module loads and that creates the literals.
2014-06-22T23:42:22Z drmeiste_: Then I need some way to register these globals for scanning by the garbage collector.
2014-06-22T23:44:32Z pkhuong: GHC has a hack to make LLVM emit PC-relative constant tables
2014-06-22T23:47:31Z drmeiste_: pkhuong: That is good to know - so it's a thing others needed.
2014-06-22T23:48:23Z pkhuong: http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/llvm-commits/Week-of-Mon-20130909/188042.html
2014-06-22T23:50:39Z drmeiste_: Ok, nice - I've seen prefix data mentioned - I didn't know what it was good for:  http://llvm.org/docs/LangRef.html#prefix-data
2014-06-22T23:57:15Z drmeiste_: So I would create a block of prefix data that would consist of an integer count of the number of entries followed by an array of pointers.
2014-06-22T23:57:30Z drmeiste_: At load time I would initialize all of the pointers for each of the functions loaded.
2014-06-22T23:58:01Z drmeiste_: The garbage collector would use the function pointer to calculate the start of the block and fix the pointers in the prefix data block for each function object.
2014-06-22T23:58:32Z drmeiste_: Does this sound consistent with what SBCL does?    Does it initialize the function prefix data at load time?
2014-06-22T23:59:42Z stassats: when loading fasls
2014-06-22T23:59:49Z drmeiste_: Right.
2014-06-23T00:02:21Z drmeiste_: Ok - I don't think I'm doing anything wrong here - just a little inefficient.     Currently I'm allocating a "LoadTimeValue" array for every Module when the Module loads as a FASL file.  Initializing those values for the entire module at load time and then my functions access them using integer indices into the LoadTimeValue array.
2014-06-23T00:03:06Z drmeiste_: All of these LoadTimeValue arrays are stored in a hash-table (indexed by the module fasl file names) that is scanned by the garbage collector.
2014-06-23T00:03:20Z drmeiste_: It's just clumsy.
2014-06-23T00:15:13Z drmeiste_: Awesome - so to use LLVM function prefix data you code a jump instruction in the first bytes of the prefix data to jump over the prefix data.  So I have complete control over what goes into the prefix data.
2014-06-23T00:15:40Z stassats: that requirement is a bit strange
2014-06-23T00:16:32Z pkhuong: stassats: I think GHC just does away with it and stores correctly offset pointers.
2014-06-23T00:17:09Z drmeiste_: The prefix data starts right at the function pointer - so if you want to call the function using the function pointer you put some instructions in the prefix data to jump over the prefix data.
2014-06-23T00:17:12Z pkhuong: although the docs say the jump is necessary to bamboozle some optimisation passes
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2014-06-23T00:17:55Z stassats: the size of the table could be used instead of the jump
2014-06-23T00:18:23Z drmeiste_: This is so that the inliner and optimization passes don't have to deal with the prefix data.
2014-06-23T00:18:51Z drmeiste_: Or to put it another way - I can use the jump to determine the size of the table.
2014-06-23T00:20:00Z stassats: decoding instruction sucks, plus it may require more than one instruction
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2014-06-23T00:21:26Z drmeiste_: But I could save 2 bytes!
2014-06-23T00:21:50Z drmeiste_: Just kidding.
2014-06-23T00:21:52Z stassats: it has to take up at least a word
2014-06-23T00:23:33Z drmeiste_: I'll have to brush up on my X86-64 assembler coding.   The last time I did extensive assembler coding was on a Z80.
2014-06-23T00:24:50Z drmeiste_: Where did the video memory start on a TRS-80 Model II?    15360 decimal   0x3C00     How many neurons do I have tied up remembering that?
2014-06-23T00:34:06Z pkhuong: jmp short would be easy and PIC.
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2014-06-23T10:22:21Z flip214: 1.2.0 doesn't seem to work with swank from quicklisp... "CORRUPTION WARNING in SBCL". that's already known, right? ISTR there's been some discussion somewhere.
2014-06-23T10:25:13Z Krystof: I don't think that was the thing that was discussed
2014-06-23T10:25:24Z Krystof: there was recent breakage around trace-tables
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2014-06-23T10:56:43Z flip214: well, I get
2014-06-23T10:56:45Z flip214: CORRUPTION WARNING in SBCL pid ...
2014-06-23T10:56:56Z flip214: Memory fault at 0 (pc=(nil), sp=...
2014-06-23T10:57:03Z flip214: even after doing a ql update
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2014-06-23T10:57:29Z flip214: maybe it's related (again) to WARNING: change in instance length of class PRETTY-STREAM: current length: 26 new length: 27
2014-06-23T10:58:29Z Krystof: I'm sure it is
2014-06-23T10:58:56Z Krystof: I don't know of anyone who runs with whatever that contrib is
2014-06-23T11:01:08Z flip214: hmmm yes, ":load-contribs NIL" instead of T makes sbcl start.
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2014-06-25T09:25:44Z alpha-: Hello. Is there a way to see a list of all defined variables that were created using defvar or defparameter in an sbcl repl ?
2014-06-25T09:26:18Z alpha-: I've tried with do-symbols but I don't know about the package names
2014-06-25T09:26:35Z alpha-: also, is there a way to list all current packages?
2014-06-25T09:29:08Z ams: FIND-SYMBOL?
2014-06-25T09:29:21Z ams: FIND-ALL-SYMBOLS?
2014-06-25T09:30:16Z ams: LIST-ALL-PACKAGES ..
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2014-06-25T09:31:46Z alpha-: can you give me an example of find-all-symbols use ams ?
2014-06-25T09:32:08Z alpha-: and thanks for list-all-packages
2014-06-25T09:32:24Z ams: alpha-: have you read the standard?
2014-06-25T09:32:48Z alpha-: no ams
2014-06-25T09:32:54Z ams: then please do so
2014-06-25T09:33:10Z alpha-: does it have examples?
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2014-06-25T09:33:59Z ams: alpha-: if you read it, you will know.
2014-06-25T09:34:19Z alpha-: ams do you mean this http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/ by standard?
2014-06-25T09:34:32Z ams: sure
2014-06-25T09:34:35Z alpha-: ok
2014-06-25T09:34:39Z alpha-: thank you
2014-06-25T09:34:59Z ams: also note that at the REPL you will be in the CL-USER package.
2014-06-25T09:35:12Z alpha-: ok
2014-06-25T09:35:15Z ams: so you can just look at what that defines for symbols
2014-06-25T09:35:18Z alpha-: thanks for that, I wanted to ask that too
2014-06-25T09:37:55Z ams: what are you trying to do?
2014-06-25T09:39:42Z alpha-: ams I have had my REPL running for a few days on a server just running some examples from a book and I wanted to see what kind of stuff it had accumulated
2014-06-25T09:40:08Z alpha-: (do-symbols (x :common-lisp-user) (if (boundp x) (print x))) did what I want
2014-06-25T09:40:31Z ams: you can use *package* for the current package
2014-06-25T09:40:47Z alpha-: nice
2014-06-25T09:40:50Z ams: and you should use WHEN.
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2014-06-25T09:44:17Z alpha-: ok
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2014-06-25T12:09:33Z Cymew: It seems like some quickloadable systems need asdf 3.0.3 and the latest provided by sbcl is 3.0.2 presently. Anyone here planning on upgrading the version of asdf in sbcl git soonish, or should I just compile a new version myself?
2014-06-25T12:18:58Z ams: Cymew: why do those systems require 3.0.3?
2014-06-25T12:19:40Z Cymew: Good question. It's inferior-shell and done by Fare so he probably works from bleeding edge asdf, considering his involvement with it.
2014-06-25T12:20:04Z ams: if that was the case, he would be using 3.1.something
2014-06-25T12:20:28Z Cymew: That's the newest? Well, then your guess is as good as mine
2014-06-25T12:21:54Z ams: it seems quite ... stupid, for a package to depend on a minor version of a defsystem utility.
2014-06-25T12:22:23Z Cymew: I have nothing to add to that, neither agreeing nor disagreeing
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2014-06-25T13:51:48Z foom: that sounds similar to https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1318046/comments/3
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2014-06-25T13:52:40Z foom: (apparently :read-file-line was buggy in asdf 3.0.2)
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2014-06-26T11:55:58Z Krystof: has anyone had any recent contact with Tom Emerson?
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2014-06-26T14:19:49Z brucem: Krystof: about 2 weeks ago, I think.
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2014-06-26T14:20:21Z brucem: Krystof: apparently, time is passing quickly. I last heard from him on June 2.
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2014-06-28T11:20:49Z chris_l: is there a way to "trace" vops, to see which ones where used in compiling a function?
2014-06-28T11:24:14Z _8hzp: (compile-file .. :trace-file t)
2014-06-28T11:28:43Z chris_l: thanks
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2014-06-28T12:21:00Z chris_l: so, where can I find documentation of the trace-file output?
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2014-06-28T12:32:28Z ams: chris_l: it is quite self explanator ..
2014-06-28T12:40:26Z chris_l: really? I'm quite puzzled by MOVE t1[RCX] => #:G0!2[RCX]
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2014-06-28T13:32:23Z pkhuong: chris_l: that's a move vop from a TN, a codegen-level variable, named t1 to another TN, #:G0!2
2014-06-28T13:33:05Z pkhuong: it so happens that the register allocator has assigned them both the same location, so the VOP will eventually convert into no assembly code.
2014-06-28T13:34:13Z pkhuong: the fact that t1 and #:G0!2 were assigned the same register isn't a coincidence, but that's a completely different topic and doesn't affect the interpretation of trace files.
2014-06-28T13:40:36Z chris_l: ok, good. So what does the number after the bang on so many variables mean?
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2014-06-28T14:04:20Z pkhuong: different TNs for the same source-level variable.
2014-06-28T14:04:29Z pkhuong: makes it easier to see what's what.
2014-06-28T14:13:43Z chris_l: ok, one more question: my test function declares two fixnums and calls truncate on them. But fast-truncate/signed=>signed is called instead of fast-truncate/fixnum=>fixnum. Where is this decided?
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2014-06-28T14:37:37Z chris_l: I might have found an incorrect comment in srctran.lisp line 3382
2014-06-28T14:37:51Z chris_l: it states the "floor" of the binary logarithm
2014-06-28T14:38:05Z chris_l: rather the ceiling is computed by the given function
2014-06-28T14:38:32Z chris_l: and the ceiling is indeed called for by the paper mentioned in the comments further up
2014-06-28T14:56:51Z pkhuong: you're loooking at core for truncate of unsigned by a contant
2014-06-28T14:56:52Z pkhuong: *constant
2014-06-28T14:56:57Z pkhuong: *code
2014-06-28T14:59:26Z pkhuong: chris_l: the reason is (truncate most-negative-fixnum -1)
2014-06-28T15:00:14Z chris_l: sorry, I'm not following. Care to be more verbose?
2014-06-28T15:00:32Z pkhuong: fixed-width integers in two's complement don't have a symmetrical range: they go one more in the negative direction (instead of having two representations for zero as in sign magnitude or one's complement)
2014-06-28T15:00:48Z pkhuong: so there's no guarantee that truncating two fixnums will result in a fixnum
2014-06-28T15:01:13Z chris_l: I see
2014-06-28T15:01:42Z pkhuong: You can always specify finer INTEGER types.
2014-06-28T15:03:21Z pkhuong: plenty of implementations get/have got fixnum division by -1 wrong. it's easy to overlook that edge case.
2014-06-28T15:03:36Z chris_l: cool
2014-06-28T15:05:44Z chris_l: but where do I find the code that makes that distinction, if there is such a place?
2014-06-28T15:07:39Z pkhuong: the VOP for truncate/fixnum=>fixnum is declared to only apply if both the arguments and the results fit in fixnums
2014-06-28T15:08:12Z pkhuong: deriving the range of return values for truncate happens in its derive-type optimizer
2014-06-28T15:08:27Z pkhuong: M-. on truncate should let you jump there easily.
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2014-06-29T08:12:06Z stassats: how bad would it be to modify the frame pointer to get around the 12-bit offset?
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2014-06-29T08:40:04Z stassats: i guess only the debugger cares about frame pointers and it should be able to deal with a bogus one
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2014-06-29T09:00:48Z stassats: backtrace is broken alright
2014-06-29T09:02:29Z Krystof: one thing I wondered about arm is whether it would benefit substantially from turning the instruction scheduler on
2014-06-29T09:08:43Z stassats: what would that achieve?
2014-06-29T09:09:49Z stassats: so, a choice is, a broken backtrace on an interrupt vs a failure to compile
2014-06-29T09:11:10Z stassats: load-stack can use the destination register as a temporary
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2014-06-29T09:20:53Z stassats: safepoints, of course, would avoid problems
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2014-06-29T10:04:34Z Krystof: turning the instruction scheduler on would potentially achieve a reordering of instructions to avoid stalls
2014-06-29T10:04:48Z Krystof: maybe making the overall system faster
2014-06-29T10:05:10Z Krystof: I mean, obviously before that the instructions need to be annotated for their effects if they're not already
2014-06-29T10:05:30Z Krystof: and, who knows, maybe there isn't enough slack in the system to gain a significant benefit
2014-06-29T10:05:35Z Krystof: but that is what I wondered
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2014-06-29T19:46:48Z pkhuong: Krystof: next gen ARM should have some form of out of order execution :\
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2014-06-29T20:08:59Z Krystof: do you mean aarch64 or proper arm but A19 or whatever number they're up to?
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2014-06-29T20:24:17Z p_l: Krystof: I think it's independent of aarch64... though I thought some hi-end cores already had OOOE
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2014-06-29T20:27:09Z Krystof: in any case, that sounds like arm would *currently* benefit from a working instruction scheduler
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2014-06-29T21:43:09Z |3b|: does sbcl store enough information to distinguish between a function with an empty arglist and one without one stored due to being compiled at debug 0?
2014-06-29T21:45:36Z |3b|: not that slime showing nothing instead of (foo) in the latter case is much of an improvement
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2014-06-29T22:07:42Z pkhuong: |3b|: don't think so, but that's probably fixable.
2014-06-29T22:08:24Z |3b|: probably low priority, since slime doesn't seem to do anything useful with it
2014-06-29T22:12:50Z |3b|: possibly even undesirable if it would require extra storage, since reducing space is main reason i can think of at the moment to use (debug 0)
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2014-06-29T22:39:58Z pkhuong: |3b|: play with the type declaration a bit and store a non-NIL symbol if unknown
2014-06-29T22:43:25Z |3b|: yeah, that sounds reasonable
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2014-06-30T06:46:08Z enupten: Has this bug been reported on 1.2.0 : (integer-decode-float 0.0d0) => (0 -1075 1) ?
2014-06-30T06:46:37Z enupten: The actual answer must've been (0 0 1) , the exponent ought to be (signed-byte 11).
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2014-06-30T06:54:15Z enupten: This looks like due to the first clause in the cond on at L267 in float.lisp in integer-decode-float. Is it supposed to be this way ? CLISP gives the answer that I mentioned earlier.
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2014-06-30T06:55:21Z enupten: This "bug" is still around in the GIT version.
2014-06-30T07:07:39Z Krystof: "If float is zero, any integer value may be returned, provided that the identity shown for scale-float holds."
2014-06-30T07:10:22Z Krystof: (I don't think the exponent is of type signed-byte 11 -- are you trying to use integer-decode-float to get at the ieee floating point fields?)
2014-06-30T07:11:07Z enupten: Yes, I was trying to do that.
2014-06-30T07:11:38Z enupten: I understand that ANSI is vague on this, but wouldn't it easier to mimic what the other implementations are doing ?
2014-06-30T07:11:52Z Krystof: ANSI isn't vague; it's explicitly permissive
2014-06-30T07:12:51Z enupten: Okay.
2014-06-30T07:12:54Z enupten: Yes, but is there a specific reason for changing it ? I mean the code was written on previous version of SBCL.
2014-06-30T07:15:38Z Krystof: um, the branch you're referring to is unchanged since 2005
2014-06-30T07:16:06Z Krystof: and that's the "whitespace canonicalization" moment
2014-06-30T07:16:09Z Krystof: so probably before then
2014-06-30T07:16:29Z enupten: Really ? That's weird. May be I didn't play with 0d0. Oh well.
2014-06-30T07:16:43Z Krystof: yeah.  Also look at what happens with least-positive-double-float
2014-06-30T07:17:40Z enupten: Will do. Thanks for your help, Krystof!
2014-06-30T07:17:46Z Krystof: for what it's worth, I think I would prefer the behaviour you expected
2014-06-30T07:18:06Z Krystof: a more close alignment with the ieee fields in the float representation.
2014-06-30T07:18:06Z enupten: Why so ?
2014-06-30T07:18:28Z Krystof: but it's only a marginal preference
2014-06-30T07:18:52Z enupten: Hmm, but a exponent of -1075 wouldn't fit in 11 bits ?
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2014-06-30T07:19:37Z Krystof: enupten: right, but you could shrink the significand
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2014-06-30T07:19:57Z Krystof: I wonder if I wrote some code to do this in ieeefp-tests
2014-06-30T07:20:07Z Krystof: (I wonder if I can find the code of ieeefp-tests)
2014-06-30T07:21:02Z enupten: Yeah, but does x87 map that 0 ?
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2014-06-30T07:21:43Z Krystof: what?
2014-06-30T07:21:58Z Krystof: oh, right, sorry
2014-06-30T07:22:21Z Krystof: you will still need to deal with the bias of the exponent
2014-06-30T07:22:38Z Krystof: the field is 11 bits but it's not actually symmetric
2014-06-30T07:25:20Z enupten: Isn't it ? I thought it was just [ n - 2^{k - 1} ] , or something.
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2014-06-30T07:28:52Z enupten: Never mind, I seem to have happily forgotten my floating point (looked up old code :).
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2014-06-30T07:59:59Z enupten: Krystof: You're right, 1075 does fit into 11 bits (in the biased FP way); this does seem more preferable.
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2014-06-30T10:45:49Z stassats: the trace file doesn't show which move funs were used, but makes the load a part of the VOP
2014-06-30T10:46:07Z stassats: and i'm now searching what loaded it
2014-06-30T10:48:24Z stassats: which turned out to be not even a load
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2014-06-30T11:09:55Z stassats: vops really should have an ability to load things in the middle
2014-06-30T11:13:56Z stassats: and now i get a bizarre aver failure while trying to substitute move x, 0 to XOR in move-if
2014-06-30T11:14:10Z stassats: (= (SB!C::TEMPLATE-INFO-ARG-COUNT SB!C::TEMPLATE) (+ (LENGTH SB!C::INFO-ARGS) (IF SB!C::FLAGS 0 2))) from SB!C::IR2-CONVERT-CONDITIONAL
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2014-06-30T11:19:31Z stassats: doesn't make any sense
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2014-06-30T11:29:12Z stassats: ah, maybe i'm misoptimizing (IF SB!C::FLAGS 0 2) itself
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2014-06-30T11:33:06Z stassats: of course, XOR butchers the flags
2014-06-30T11:35:56Z stassats: now, if it could be rearranged [LOADS][CMP][CMOVEQ], but that's too complicated for sbcl
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2014-06-30T12:15:08Z pkhuong: stassats: yup. there are some tricks we can play with setcc/sbb to catch common cases.
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2014-06-30T12:35:24Z stassats: trying to recognize (logior n (- (mask-field (byte 1 63) n))) as sign-extension isn't easy
2014-06-30T12:35:57Z stassats: maybe just export mask-signed-field?
2014-06-30T12:42:39Z pkhuong: stassats: we've waited years
2014-06-30T12:42:59Z pkhuong: let's try and think about a decent pattern in portable CL until the end of the month?
2014-06-30T12:44:01Z stassats: well, (logior n (- (mask-field (byte 1 31) n))) is fast on 32-bit integers
2014-06-30T12:45:26Z pkhuong: yeah. How many rounds of transformations does we need until we get (logior n (- (logand n [constant]))) ?
2014-06-30T12:45:41Z pkhuong: bah, let's just handle that in the source transform
2014-06-30T12:47:05Z stassats: it would be fine if it didn't exactly rounded up to mask-signed-field, just avoiding GENERIC- functions
2014-06-30T12:47:14Z pkhuong: I think we can make it work.
2014-06-30T12:47:50Z pkhuong: right, what annoyed me was the lack of modular arithmetic, not m-s-f itself.
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2014-06-30T12:56:07Z stassats: with my latest commit, at least (if (logbitp 63 n) (logior n -9223372036854775808) n) is alrightish
2014-06-30T12:57:20Z stassats: in the non-branchy case, (logior n (or -9223372036854775808 0)), and it ub64 with 0 doesn't fit sb64, but 0 only happens if it's ub63
2014-06-30T12:57:26Z stassats: but it can't know that
2014-06-30T12:59:48Z pkhuong: if logbitp will be hard to match against
2014-06-30T12:59:53Z pkhuong: almost done on the mask-field one
2014-06-30T13:00:32Z stassats: if logbitp is already good enough, except for the branch
2014-06-30T13:01:48Z pkhuong: it also won't trigger modular arith
2014-06-30T13:03:03Z stassats: it's close to mask-signed-field performance-wise
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2014-06-30T13:03:24Z stassats: but it has a branch and a more code
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2014-06-30T13:16:40Z pkhuong: stassats: http://paste.lisp.org/display/143043
2014-06-30T13:19:22Z stassats: need to add tests to make sure that changes to logand/negate do not foil this
2014-06-30T13:20:42Z pkhuong: we also have to make sure that m-s-f is converted into efficient code
2014-06-30T13:21:08Z stassats: it has vops
2014-06-30T13:21:09Z pkhuong: so far, we've mostly assumed that it's only called for word or fixnum extension
2014-06-30T13:22:20Z stassats: it should do arbitrary width extension
2014-06-30T13:22:25Z pkhuong: it does, just slowly
2014-06-30T13:22:55Z stassats: shift left / shift right?
2014-06-30T13:22:59Z pkhuong: sure.
2014-06-30T13:23:49Z stassats: that's what it does on arm for all non-word cases
2014-06-30T13:24:16Z pkhuong: wait, yeah, it has that.
2014-06-30T13:25:09Z stassats: though arm has some word/byte sign extensions, but that's some other arch level
2014-06-30T13:25:32Z stassats: anyhow, for other cases, can't really do anything besides shifting
2014-06-30T13:26:31Z pkhuong: trying to understand why the transform fails to fire for 32 bit sign extend
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2014-06-30T13:27:29Z stassats: but only x86oids and arm have mask-signed-field ops currently
2014-06-30T13:27:40Z stassats: adding to ppc should be easy
2014-06-30T13:28:47Z pkhuong: nice. mask-signed-field gets in the way
2014-06-30T13:29:40Z pkhuong: ok, that's for later.
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2014-06-30T13:33:14Z pkhuong: and the EQ comparisoon is borked: we have 2 different REFs to the same leafs
2014-06-30T13:33:17Z pkhuong: -s
2014-06-30T13:36:45Z pkhuong: http://paste.lisp.org/display/143043#1
2014-06-30T13:49:38Z stassats: wouldn't (= (logcount x) 1) be better?
2014-06-30T13:51:48Z pkhuong: for bignums perhaps.
2014-06-30T13:52:19Z pkhuong: also we still have to check for -ve with logcount
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2014-06-30T13:58:13Z stassats: is mask-signed-field 63 coming from defoptimizer? i though those were run after transforms
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2014-06-30T14:00:48Z pkhuong: after transforms, but still bottom up
2014-06-30T14:01:23Z stassats: well, this is going to be quite fragile, maybe do that during some later stage?
2014-06-30T14:01:37Z stassats: ir2 or something
2014-06-30T14:01:51Z pkhuong: ir2 won't let modarith fire
2014-06-30T14:02:13Z pkhuong: looking through casts and m-s-f isn't too hard.
2014-06-30T14:02:46Z pkhuong: eventually, I think we want a class of pattern matching transforms that run top-down, before the current bottom-up stuff.
2014-06-30T14:02:54Z stassats: and mask-field isn't picked up
2014-06-30T14:03:04Z stassats: even though it goes to logand
2014-06-30T14:03:24Z pkhuong: stassats: correct. we might need some cooperation from the mask-field source transform
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2014-06-30T17:22:03Z stassats: got the untrasformed (logior n (- (mask-field (byte 1 31) n))) slightly better by optimizing %negate
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2014-06-30T17:27:52Z stassats: will translate all of the today's bit fiddles to arm and x86 later
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2014-06-30T19:11:41Z cracauer: I have a corruption free version of the GC patch. Please disregard earlier cries for second pair of eyes help :)
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2014-06-30T19:12:05Z cracauer: It isn't ready yet, still needs to handle multiple conservative pointers pointing to a single GC card.
2014-06-30T19:12:19Z cracauer: and forport to devhead
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2014-06-30T19:39:42Z Krystof: cracauer: very cool!
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