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2015-04-16T00:20:06Z stassats: what about M-. for declaim?
2015-04-16T00:21:08Z stassats: maybe optionally displayed
2015-04-16T00:21:27Z stassats: but i often want to find declarations / fndb entries
2015-04-16T00:21:35Z stassats: and grep is for savages
2015-04-16T00:21:54Z akkad: ack mode? ag mode?
2015-04-16T00:23:54Z stassats: that is grep, yes
2015-04-16T00:29:54Z akkad: ack and ag? no
2015-04-16T00:30:03Z akkad: semantically aware grep(1)
2015-04-16T00:30:22Z stassats: grep is a verb
2015-04-16T00:35:30Z akkad: and thus why i said grep(1)
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2015-04-16T01:32:05Z akkad: it's amazing anyone bootstraps on these odd platforms
2015-04-16T01:33:30Z akkad images abcl is insufficient to bootstrap sbcl?
2015-04-16T01:33:52Z stassats: just use sbcl
2015-04-16T01:34:09Z akkad: cross compile?
2015-04-16T01:34:20Z akkad: freebsd ppc, sort of a chicken and egg issue
2015-04-16T01:34:26Z stassats: yes
2015-04-16T01:34:40Z akkad: will read up on that thanks.
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2015-04-16T02:08:30Z joshe: akkad: using two separate hosts is easy enough
2015-04-16T02:09:28Z joshe: sbcl is by a very large margin the easiest native compiler I've ever bootstrapped a new platform on :)
2015-04-16T02:09:34Z akkad: nice
2015-04-16T02:09:38Z akkad: reading the sbcl.pdf now
2015-04-16T02:09:50Z joshe: or are you talking about ports?
2015-04-16T02:09:57Z akkad: yeah
2015-04-16T02:10:03Z akkad: joshe you work on openbsd
2015-04-16T02:10:05Z joshe: I use clisp on openbsd
2015-04-16T02:10:15Z akkad: yeah clisp is broken on fbsd ppc
2015-04-16T02:10:23Z akkad: segfaults galore
2015-04-16T02:10:28Z joshe: with a special FLAVOR for bootstrapping using sbcl if you want
2015-04-16T02:10:32Z joshe: yea, clisp is terrible
2015-04-16T02:10:55Z joshe: just look at /usr/ports/lang/clisp/patches and /usr/ports/devel/ffcall/patches
2015-04-16T02:11:20Z akkad: I have an old franz lisp for ppc bsd
2015-04-16T02:11:21Z joshe: I will not port clisp and ffcall to another openbsd platform
2015-04-16T02:11:22Z akkad: I try that
2015-04-16T02:11:29Z akkad: hehe
2015-04-16T02:11:49Z joshe: I had sbcl building with ecl at one point, that would be a better path forward
2015-04-16T02:11:49Z akkad: "but pg used it, so it must be good"
2015-04-16T02:12:00Z akkad: yeah no doubt. ecl is nicer
2015-04-16T02:12:08Z akkad: well more portable and tiny
2015-04-16T02:12:23Z joshe: anyway, if you're bringing up a new platform then I'd recommend using an nfs mount and two machines
2015-04-16T02:12:59Z joshe: there are instructions somewhere for running the host and targets steps on separate machines, either using nfs or scp
2015-04-16T02:13:49Z akkad: excellent thans
2015-04-16T02:14:03Z joshe: running the host stages with sbcl on a nice fast amd64 machine will be way nicer than clisp on an old mac mini or whatever
2015-04-16T02:14:11Z akkad: would be good to master that to get this working on 68k next.
2015-04-16T02:14:36Z akkad: joshe any links to that?
2015-04-16T02:14:39Z joshe: that would be quite a project
2015-04-16T02:14:52Z joshe: sbcl has no 68k support that I know of
2015-04-16T02:15:34Z joshe: I think I remember seeing cross-compilation instructions in http://www.sbcl.org/sbcl-internals/
2015-04-16T02:15:38Z akkad: I'm sure the memory requirements would exceed the host
2015-04-16T02:16:01Z joshe: hm, or perhaps not
2015-04-16T02:16:48Z joshe: ah, I found a link to a cliki page but it does not load: http://sbcl-internals.cliki.net/Build
2015-04-16T02:17:16Z joshe: you can probably figure it out by reading build.sh
2015-04-16T02:17:40Z akkad: nice
2015-04-16T02:17:41Z akkad: thanks
2015-04-16T02:18:33Z stassats: just look inside make.sh
2015-04-16T02:18:42Z joshe: the short instructions are to use nfs, run make-config.sh on the target, then make-host-1.sh, make-target-1.sh, make-host-2.sh, make-target-2.sh, make-target-contribs.sh
2015-04-16T02:19:04Z joshe: obviously the *host*.sh scripts are run on the host and *target*.sh scripts are run on the target
2015-04-16T02:19:07Z stassats: it can also use rsync
2015-04-16T02:19:29Z joshe: yes, I had a script which used scp at one point
2015-04-16T02:19:41Z joshe: but nfs is far easier if you are comfortable setting it up
2015-04-16T02:20:39Z stassats: ./make-config.sh --host-location="host:path/to/sbcl"
2015-04-16T02:22:06Z joshe: I don't know about all these new-fangled -- options to the scripts
2015-04-16T02:23:20Z akkad: sshfs(1) it is
2015-04-16T02:23:34Z joshe: ah, speaking of new-fangled...
2015-04-16T02:23:51Z akkad: you got it finally? :P
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2015-04-16T02:24:14Z joshe: openbsd got fuse a year or so ago, yes :)
2015-04-16T02:24:46Z joshe: however I only once tried to use ntfs-3g and gave up when it kept crashing
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2015-04-16T02:28:40Z akkad: fuse yes, sshfs no
2015-04-16T02:29:10Z akkad: yeah theo probably pushed it too soon
2015-04-16T02:29:50Z stassats: so, (declaim (ftype function foo) (inline foo)) (defun foo ()), M-. foo => /tmp/foo.lisp (DEFUN FOO) (DECLAIM FOO INLINE) (DECLAIM FOO FTYPE)
2015-04-16T02:30:38Z stassats: not sure how annoying that would be, but i like it
2015-04-16T02:35:08Z stassats: a better option would be to have links from C-c C-d d, but that's not easy to do
2015-04-16T02:40:14Z stassats: and slime source parsing is broken
2015-04-16T02:40:27Z stassats: like really broken
2015-04-16T02:47:18Z stassats: more reason to dig out my slime replacement, it has proper source parsing
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2015-04-16T03:03:51Z akkad: does host and target have to be the same OS/
2015-04-16T03:03:52Z akkad: ?
2015-04-16T03:24:02Z stassats: no
2015-04-16T03:25:03Z akkad: must be missing the step that populates src/runtime/genesis.
2015-04-16T03:25:16Z akkad: make-target-1.sh expects it to exist with items.
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2015-04-16T03:34:33Z akkad: user erro
2015-04-16T03:35:31Z akkad: that's pretty slick
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2015-04-16T04:31:32Z joshe: make-host-1.sh should do that
2015-04-16T04:34:18Z akkad: yeah for some reason genesis was not getting created. a rerun after clean did the right thing
2015-04-16T04:34:37Z akkad: openpty undefined.
2015-04-16T04:35:48Z joshe: do you guys have openpty?
2015-04-16T04:36:46Z akkad: net does yet
2015-04-16T04:36:48Z joshe: in openbsd it's in util.h and you need to link with -lutil
2015-04-16T04:37:08Z akkad: yeah probably missing header, and this is freebsd ppc
2015-04-16T04:37:41Z akkad: yeah that's it too on freebsd it looks like
2015-04-16T04:38:04Z joshe: you can probably get away with (cd src/runtime && gmake) to retry building the C code
2015-04-16T04:38:38Z akkad: vs rerunning target 1
2015-04-16T04:38:53Z joshe: yea, it does a make clean
2015-04-16T04:40:40Z akkad: ahh
2015-04-16T04:41:40Z akkad: joshe thanks, LINKFLAGS += -lutil ; fixed it
2015-04-16T04:42:04Z joshe: odd, that shouldn't be arch-specific
2015-04-16T04:42:18Z joshe: did the x86* makefiles already do that?
2015-04-16T04:42:25Z akkad: I need to dig
2015-04-16T04:42:39Z akkad: just been fixing errors as I hit them
2015-04-16T04:42:56Z akkad: LISP_FEATURE_FREEBSD seems to be used instead of __FreeBSD__ so I might have missed something
2015-04-16T04:43:16Z joshe: it might be handy to make an os-specific makefile fragment like I did with the Config.generic-openbsd
2015-04-16T04:43:36Z joshe: afaik the former is preferred but the latter is often used
2015-04-16T04:44:02Z joshe: I may have been responsible for a few __OpenBSD__ uses myself before I realized that
2015-04-16T04:44:21Z akkad: yeah I've not gone through and created everything. just chasing compiler errors atm
2015-04-16T04:44:30Z akkad: target1 done
2015-04-16T04:46:56Z joshe: host-2 is where you're happy to have a fast amd64 machine instead of doing it natively
2015-04-16T04:48:12Z akkad: this is a lot more sane than cmucl building
2015-04-16T04:48:36Z akkad: joshe in netbsd we crosscompile for everything :P
2015-04-16T04:48:54Z joshe: yes, I remember
2015-04-16T04:49:15Z joshe: in openbsd, we actually use our weird platforms :p
2015-04-16T04:49:36Z akkad: yeah marco and todd use to drill that point a lot
2015-04-16T04:54:00Z akkad: mmm ldb
2015-04-16T04:55:55Z akkad: where is the sighandler os specific stuff handled?
2015-04-16T04:56:16Z akkad: no handler for sig 5
2015-04-16T04:58:50Z joshe: there's a couple signals defined in some *os*.h file
2015-04-16T04:59:14Z joshe: and more in an os-independent file
2015-04-16T04:59:18Z akkad: for target 2 is it rinse, repeat all the way back to target1?
2015-04-16T05:00:29Z joshe: but probably something in bsd-os.c or ppc-bsd-os.c
2015-04-16T05:00:39Z akkad: k
2015-04-16T05:00:46Z akkad: will ensure fbsd has entries everywhere
2015-04-16T05:00:54Z joshe: bah, stupid cronjob locks my screen at 22:00 to try to get me to go to sleep
2015-04-16T05:01:03Z joshe: past joshe is such a know-it-all
2015-04-16T05:01:05Z akkad: haha
2015-04-16T05:01:18Z akkad: night
2015-04-16T05:01:43Z joshe: and yea, if you change something in the C code then you probably have to do target-1, host-2, target-2 again
2015-04-16T05:02:25Z joshe: night
2015-04-16T05:04:48Z akkad: cool
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2015-04-16T06:08:23Z zacts: hi
2015-04-16T06:15:32Z zacts: so I hear sbcl may be ported to the android platform?
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2015-04-16T15:51:40Z brucem: stassats`: Are you there and do you have a moment?
2015-04-16T15:51:56Z brucem: Or someone else that has worked with FPU code in SBCL or other?
2015-04-16T15:53:20Z stassats`: i'm there
2015-04-16T15:54:23Z brucem: stassats`: Does SBCL use the x87 FPU stack?
2015-04-16T15:54:32Z pkhuong: brucem: yes, on x86
2015-04-16T15:54:41Z stassats`: on x86-64 it uses sse
2015-04-16T15:54:57Z brucem: okay ...and if you unwind, where is the code that resets which FPU stack slots are empty?
2015-04-16T15:55:26Z brucem: so, someone hits an FP_INVALID, it signals a condition and unwinds ...
2015-04-16T15:55:41Z pkhuong: brucem: You can just ignore that condition.
2015-04-16T15:56:04Z pkhuong: we do the usual trick of treating the stack as an impoverished register file
2015-04-16T15:56:04Z brucem: well, same issue for the others. I just typed that because I knew it off the top of my head.
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2015-04-16T15:57:10Z pkhuong: (the non-empty stack slow condition, that is)
2015-04-16T15:57:37Z pkhuong: *stack slot
2015-04-16T15:57:51Z brucem: pkhuong: hmm ... I'm looking at how to fix something in Open Dylan's HARP back-end ... the x87 code we generate uses stack slots, but when an unwind happens, nothing lets go of the stack slot, so after a couple of errors, you end up with something / anything causing an FPU stack fault
2015-04-16T15:58:41Z pkhuong: if you don't use it as a stack, you can ignore stack under/overflow
2015-04-16T15:59:15Z brucem: so just check the status word for a stack fault and continue along?
2015-04-16T15:59:26Z pkhuong: don't trap on stack fault
2015-04-16T16:00:05Z brucem: well, I added trapping on FE_INVALID which seemed to pick that up.
2015-04-16T16:02:17Z stassats`: there are two kinds of invalid traps
2015-04-16T16:03:30Z stassats`: i guess you can't differentiate between the two using C things
2015-04-16T16:04:05Z pkhuong: yeah, FE_INVALID for stack fault seems wrong
2015-04-16T16:04:46Z brucem: x86 does it despite it not being IEEE.
2015-04-16T16:04:49Z pkhuong: however, I think the other half of the trick re treating the stack as a register is that we only ever more the stack pointer by +/- 1
2015-04-16T16:04:51Z brucem: \o/ x86
2015-04-16T16:05:40Z pkhuong: so if you don't treat the stack as a stack, you never get under or overflow
2015-04-16T16:06:20Z brucem: stassats`: I can differentiate by checking the FPU status word. if bit 6 is set, then it is a stack fault.
2015-04-16T16:07:58Z stassats`: right, was just about to paste that bit
2015-04-16T16:08:20Z brucem: This is how I found out it was a stack fault causing me pain. :)
2015-04-16T16:08:23Z brucem: (some hours ago)
2015-04-16T16:08:25Z stassats`: "The x87 FPU explicitly sets the SF flag when it detects a stack overflow or underflow condi- tion, but it does not explicitly clear the flag when it detects an invalid-arithmetic- operand condition."
2015-04-16T16:08:38Z brucem: haha
2015-04-16T16:09:01Z brucem: <3 x86 / x87
2015-04-16T16:11:15Z brucem: I guess if I have to, I can call FSTSW
2015-04-16T16:11:38Z brucem: so, I guess sbcl doesn't do FE_INVALID then on x86?
2015-04-16T16:12:47Z stassats`: reading the manual "The Intel 286 and Intel386 and Intel 387 processor/coprocessor pairs are each provided with ERROR# pins that are recommended to be connected between the processor and x87 FPU"
2015-04-16T16:12:52Z stassats`: ... ok?
2015-04-16T16:14:01Z stassats`: brucem: sbcl does produce invalid exceptions
2015-04-16T16:15:18Z pkhuong: brucem: but we don't use the stack as a stack, so we never get under/over flow the stack
2015-04-16T16:15:39Z brucem: ah, okay.
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2015-04-16T16:19:46Z brucem: pkhuong: so, not like http://pastebin.com/DD7rt0gc ...
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2015-04-16T16:44:52Z pkhuong: brucem: nope
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