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ZZZzzz] 13:12:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:17:28 -!- heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:22:41 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:37:07 heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has joined #sbcl 13:39:58 ltt_ [~ltt_@201.75.216.14] has joined #sbcl 13:51:59 I've got a function that creates a bit-vector of primes. It uses a simple loop construct to compute the vector, and when computing 10^9 primes it only takes up something like 125Mb (as it should). However, the sbcl process takes up a lot more space, and running (room) I can see that it uses around 400 Mb for cons-objects. What gives? 13:52:55 paste the code 13:52:56 <|3b|> hard to say without seeing the program 13:53:35 https://gist.github.com/Munksgaard/588010734c703f3ead50 13:54:04 <|3b|> loop collect builds a list 13:54:19 <|3b|> (which is made of CONSes) 13:54:53 and conservativness of the gc makes it persist 13:56:19 Ah, so should simply leave out the collect part? It does seem kinda redundant now that you point it out... 13:56:47 yes 13:56:49 <|3b|> yeah, result doesn't seem to be used anywhere 13:56:52 also, learn about LET* 13:57:07 and don't use ASH for performing division 13:57:14 or multiplication 13:58:26 stassats: It's not faster than simply using * and / ? 13:58:37 it isn't 13:58:45 and you want truncate, not / 14:01:13 <|3b|> and even if it is faster, you should file a bug against the implementation rather than making the code uglier :p 14:06:19 Right. Thanks a bunch, it's much nicer on my memory now :) 14:07:09 and conservativness is starting to annoy me, if it weren't page-granular, it wouldn't be as bad 14:08:14 *|3b|* still wonders if old data is getting left on the stack somewhere rather than just bad luck with random bits 14:09:49 actually, this instance isn't much affected by conservativness, just there was no GC after prime-sieve finished to run 14:19:05 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@222.90.45.207] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:19:36 |3b|: and it's the same problem, old data cannot be distinguished from random bits, that's why anything that looks like a pointer pins the page where it resides down, because if the object it points to moves, and the pointer is updated, but it's actually a random bit, there's going to be a problem 14:20:13 <|3b|> right, but "old data" could be overwritten with 0s or something, while valid data that only looks like a pointer can't be 14:20:19 so, nothing residing on the stack is moving, old, random, adjacent 14:20:27 michael_lee [~michael_l@222.90.45.207] has joined #sbcl 14:20:31 <|3b|> question is whether it could be overwritten efficiently or not 14:23:10 it would be better just to get rid of conservativness 14:23:40 <|3b|> yeah, probably 14:25:09 though, zeroing would still help in any case 14:26:37 what does CCL do? 14:27:52 <|3b|> ccl has a precise gc, doesn't it? 14:29:05 i'm interested whether it zeros out of reach objects, because that would be still helpful with a precise gc 14:30:04 *|3b|* meant zeroing old pointers on the stack, not the actual objects 14:30:17 that's what i mean too 14:30:56 <|3b|> ah, you mean if it can't distinguish between a live pointer and a dead pointer, only that it is a pointer? 14:31:35 (defun foo () (let ((x (make-array 100000000))) (bar x) (print (aref x 9))) (z 1)) 14:32:06 X has to be saved on the stack before the call to BAR, then after the LET and during the call to Z, it's not reachable anymore 14:32:15 <|3b|> right 14:32:27 two ways, adjusting the stack pointer, zeroing the stack 14:34:30 *|3b|* supposes it would be easy to test, if Z does a full gc and calls ROOM 14:34:39 right 14:34:43 -!- loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:34:45 <|3b|> at least whether it can distinguish it, if not how 14:35:22 but i just read the dissasembly, it doesn't zero, nor does it adjust the stack pointer 14:36:13 loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #sbcl 14:37:08 or maybe it does, wait 14:41:06 ok, it does, but only after the LET is finished 14:41:41 so, in (let ((x (make-array 100000000))) (bar x) (print (aref x 9)) (z 1)), X would still be reachable inside Z 14:42:01 <|3b|> that sounds reasonable 14:42:07 but after the let, (addq ($ 8) (% rsp)), adjusts the stack 14:44:47 sbcl manages the stack in a different way, it allocates the maximum at the start and doesn't shrink it afterwards 14:46:29 <|3b|> does it zero that space on entry? 14:46:51 no, no zeroing of any kind 14:48:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@147.30.99.154] has joined #sbcl 14:48:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@147.30.99.154] has quit [Changing host] 14:48:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 14:49:08 <|3b|> so any space it allocates to spill registers into or whatever has old junk into until it stores something there? 14:49:24 right 14:49:52 LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-130-210.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 14:50:00 <|3b|> and probably old data after it loads it back, if the register changes 14:50:39 <|3b|> those are more what i was thinking about, rather than just variables going out of scope 14:51:06 maybe some other way could be used, like a map of the code, before each function call, which stack locations are reachable 14:51:46 <|3b|> yeah, i think i've heard something like that suggested as a way to make the GC precise 14:57:11 right, only with pointer/non-pointer instead of reachable/unreachable 14:59:12 another way is to have two stacks, one for boxed, one for unboxed values. that's what sbcl does on ppc 14:59:36 or even on all non-x86oids 15:00:52 probably because all other being RISCs, they don't have any special instructions for stack manipulation, making having two stacks easier (or at least not harder) 15:02:36 and the same for register, partitioning the register set into boxed/unboxed could be used, maybe with a dynamic map 15:03:19 how ccl does it: http://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter17.2.html 15:09:53 -!- ltt_ [~ltt_@201.75.216.14] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 15:18:17 ltt_ [~ltt_@201.75.216.14] has joined #sbcl 15:23:45 -!- heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:06 -!- sdemarre [~serge@231.142-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:03:22 -!- ltt_ [~ltt_@201.75.216.14] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 16:08:50 drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #sbcl 16:21:42 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:23 drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #sbcl 16:56:33 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:38 ltt_ [~ltt_@201.75.216.14] has joined #sbcl 16:58:02 -!- ltt_ [~ltt_@201.75.216.14] has quit [Client Quit] 17:04:36 [1]cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #sbcl 17:05:29 drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #sbcl 17:22:47 slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #sbcl 17:35:12 cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #sbcl 17:37:52 -!- [1]cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:38:14 hey pkhuong 17:38:36 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@222.90.45.207] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:39:26 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:39:43 -!- cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:41:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:32 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 17:51:17 cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #sbcl 17:54:36 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 17:56:35 -!- cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:04:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:16:14 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:46 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.195.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:23:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@147.30.99.154] has joined #sbcl 18:23:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@147.30.99.154] has quit [Changing host] 18:23:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 18:33:19 Bike_ [~Glossina@71-222-35-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 18:34:43 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-86-192.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:38:51 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@71-222-35-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:39:34 Bike [~Glossina@71-222-40-153.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 18:58:52 heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has joined #sbcl 19:46:35 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:53 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: computation interrupted by sudden death] 20:17:08 drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #sbcl 20:21:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:00:28 brucem? 21:01:28 minion: memo for stassats: I think I'll try a split stack on x86, just to see how bad the overhead would be. I expect I'll be pleasantly surprised. 21:01:28 Remembered. I'll tell stassats when he/she/it next speaks. 21:10:53 drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #sbcl 21:15:20 haxx [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #sbcl 21:21:48 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-148-230.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:22:23 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-249-121.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 21:28:13 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:22:36 drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #sbcl 22:51:04 cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #sbcl 23:10:05 ltt_ [~ltt_@201.75.216.14] has joined #sbcl 23:10:39 -!- ltt_ [~ltt_@201.75.216.14] has quit [Client Quit] 23:16:37 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:16:58 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:18 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #sbcl 23:25:25 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:31:40 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #sbcl 23:46:20 ltt_ [~ltt_@201.75.216.14] has joined #sbcl 23:54:18 -!- cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]