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If you can see non-ideal behaviour (either code or propagation), I'll see if I can tweak things a bit. 03:12:33 Remembered. I'll tell stassats when he/she/it next speaks. 03:26:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:41 -!- rpg [~rpg@198-74-7-110.fttp.usinternet.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 04:04:10 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:07 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 04:10:52 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:11 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 04:16:50 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 04:45:29 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has joined #sbcl 04:51:10 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22:43 sdemarre [~serge@195.127-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #sbcl 05:23:06 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:27:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:27:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 05:32:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:32:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 05:35:24 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:48:58 -!- sdemarre [~serge@195.127-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:52:01 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 06:01:37 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #sbcl 06:03:32 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-169-181.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:13:51 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:25:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:45:01 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:49:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 06:51:15 angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #sbcl 06:57:07 -!- angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:58:37 angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #sbcl 07:09:54 Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #sbcl 07:22:01 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 07:26:51 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:58:03 omg1314 [~omg1314@61.135.169.73] has joined #sbcl 08:10:13 -!- omg1314 is now known as omg13 08:11:45 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 08:12:12 what happened after call_into_lisp_first_time() of SBCL runtime? anybody got a clue? 08:13:34 I'd really like to learn how SBCL runtime works, but lost in the assembly language, and GDB didn't help much 08:13:49 any suggestions? 08:14:06 kanru [~kanru@64.213.97.194] has joined #sbcl 08:14:13 lisp code is being executed after call_into_lisp_first_time 08:14:13 stassats, memo from pkhuong: https://github.com/pkhuong/sbcl/tree/pluggable-constraints seems to do the job for simple cases of TYPEP propagation, but multiple transforms rounds might make things complicated. If you can see non-ideal behaviour (either code or propagation), I'll see if I can tweak things a bit. 08:17:15 so, where is the entry point of lisp code after call_into_lisp_first_time()? 08:19:28 sb-vm::*restart-lisp-function* 08:19:35 you have the code before you, you can look it up 08:22:57 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 08:24:50 omg13: what do you want to learn about the runtime? 08:25:09 you won't learn anything by trying to unravel it from the beginning 08:27:33 in fact, i am just trying to learn SBCL from main(), trying to figure out how SBCL jumps from C into read-eval-print loop 08:28:48 are you trying to change something? 08:29:34 there's nothing exciting about jumping from c to lisp, it just sets up the stack in a particular way, and calls into a lisp function 08:30:35 no, just out of curiosity. i thought in order to understand SBCL, i sohuld understand how SBCL jumps from C to lisp 08:30:49 starting from main(), that's how i learnt other open source projects 08:30:58 that's the least important part 08:33:22 then how should i get to understand SBCL? starting from main(), that's the only way i knew :( 08:33:56 sbcl has many different parts 08:41:33 that's true. only had pure C projects experiences. so SBCL is even more harder than i imagined :) 08:47:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:56:31 -!- kanru [~kanru@64.213.97.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:56:45 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:05:41 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:07:33 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 09:14:41 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:23:04 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 09:29:43 sbcl isn't that hard, once you untangle somethings... what is it exact;y you wish to understand about sbcl? 09:52:47 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 09:56:00 i'd say, learn how SBCL works in a whole, trying to bugfix and improve it. and being able to implement my own version of SBCL in the end, :) 09:57:30 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:58:47 that's the way i see open source projects, :) 10:00:47 then i would suggest finding a bug, and fixing it ... 10:00:56 as for implementing an CL environment, that takes a long long time 10:05:14 i agree. that's just a dream for now, :) 10:05:41 it's just, i was so used to starting from main() 10:05:51 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:06:05 and SBCL really beats me for this 10:07:29 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #sbcl 10:11:24 so you discover that starting from main() doesn't scale 10:11:40 alternative plan: start from some piece of functionality that is interesting to you 10:21:37 i guess that's the solution for now. maybe i should come back to main() after some time, :) 10:46:10 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-227-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 10:53:29 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 10:58:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.93] has joined #sbcl 10:58:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.93] has quit [Changing host] 10:58:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 11:17:33 reb`` [user@nat/google/x-ywnwnwlubcmpmitv] has joined #sbcl 11:18:04 nicdev` [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #sbcl 11:18:28 |3b|` [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #sbcl 11:19:02 -!- reb` [user@nat/google/x-swbttbfbkgnclbvj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:19:26 -!- |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:19:26 -!- foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:19:26 -!- nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:22:18 foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has joined #sbcl 11:24:23 -!- omg13 [~omg1314@61.135.169.73] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:24:55 omg13 [~omg1314@61.135.169.73] has joined #sbcl 11:27:29 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:32:29 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #sbcl 11:36:06 working back from main in sbcl is like working back from when the mbr gets loaded at #x7c00, and then trying to figure out how gcc works ... 11:46:32 wow, i definitely wouldn't go that far. it's just, to understand SBCL as a whole, i think i should understand how SBCL goes from C to Lisp 11:47:09 it's the least important part, and the majority of SBCL is written in lisp 11:49:15 it is more like sbcl goes from lisp to assembly ... than anything 11:49:45 ams: no, it does indeed call C 11:49:52 and vice versa 11:50:46 stassats: i know it does, though i think it might be easier pretending that the C bits don't exist to some extent 11:51:36 lisp and c just happen to have different calling conventions so it needs some small assembly sections to transition from one to another 11:53:06 and it takes years to fully understand SBCL 11:53:39 it takes years understadning CL :-) 11:53:52 CL is documented at least 11:54:07 yeah 11:54:34 it is also much higher level than sbcl internals .. 11:57:56 kanru [~kanru@64.213.97.194] has joined #sbcl 12:01:35 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 12:01:47 -!- Subfusc [~Subfusc@tjenen.de] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 12:07:40 Subfusc [~Subfusc@tjenen.de] has joined #sbcl 12:08:11 it takes years?! that hurts. i was hoping one year or a little more, :) 12:08:52 omg13: well, common lisp is a large language, and the implementation of it is also quite large 12:10:18 omg13: think about it, common lisp includes not just a compiler, debugger, but also an editor (kinda), and a whole slew of other things like an object system, the loop macro which in itself is quite compilicated 12:10:58 omg13: sbcl has to implement all of this, the standard just states how things should behave .. how things are implemented is really up to each implementation of common lisp 12:12:15 i had two open source projects on my TODO list for the following year. seems i need a new plan now... 12:12:49 omg13: don't give up :-) sbcl is complicated, and cl is large, but they are worth learning 12:13:10 if you already know well CL, know compilation and optimization techniques, garbage collection techniques, and dealing with-code-written-by-student-20-years-ago techniques, it may go faster 12:14:04 and know computer internals well 12:15:42 i underestimated SBCL, a lot ...:-) 12:16:53 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[~oleo@xdsl-78-35-177-61.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 13:51:05 -!- |3b|` is now known as |3b| 14:01:12 n.b. code written by students looks the same regardless of its age, so that's actually a transversal skill ;) 14:04:23 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 14:04:55 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:35:39 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:49:18 tylergoza [~quassel@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has joined #sbcl 15:46:44 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 15:47:11 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 16:14:13 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:18:57 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has left #sbcl 16:29:58 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 16:30:10 -!- kanru [~kanru@64.213.97.194] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:05:35 -!- 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