00:13:31 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.252.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:30 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:26 ASau` [~user@p54AFEB12.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 02:13:49 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFF721.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:32:41 I was reading sbcl-devel from Google Groups (for some reason I don't seem to be allowed to post to it?) regarding the conditions raised by LOAD. Wouldn't a potential solution to this (and other cases like it) to be to implement Java-style recursive conditions? So that a condition should refer to another condition as its "cause"? 02:39:01 -!- christoph_debian [~christoph@ppp-88-217-40-229.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:40:17 loke, a condition can have a slot that contains a condition, no problem 02:40:31 and yes, I've seen that be used 02:41:56 subclassing seems better for backward compatibility. 02:52:18 christoph_debian [~christoph@ppp-46-244-239-35.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #sbcl 02:55:21 IMHO, it would solve the two issues highlighted in the thread; dealing with both "expected error reports" and "including necessary now level details" 02:55:38 (assuming SLIME can be coerced into displaying chained conditions properly) 02:56:37 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #sbcl 03:12:49 Usually the error comes from Google when there is a misconfiguration in the API settings. I'm going to make the error reporting better. Perhaps today if I have the time 03:32:32 pkhuong, subclassing and parameters are not exclusive means or organizing data, but complementary ones 03:33:02 see my lisp-interface-library lecture for how they go nicely together. 03:33:11 or see the scalaz library in scala 03:34:27 https://github.com/fare/lil-ilc2012/ 03:36:09 Fare: sure. But you still end up with one subclass for each class that you want to stuff in. 03:41:06 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #sbcl 03:44:09 what? 03:44:10 no 03:44:28 one parameterized class, and a parameter 03:45:02 which doesn't help with backward compatibility. 03:45:09 how not? 03:45:50 you mean, if you need to be backward compatible with an interface that has plenty of subclasses, then you need just as many subclasses? Duh. 03:46:15 the question is then: do you really want to be backward compatible with that? 03:46:42 you can often use deftype and satisfies to provide all the compatibility you need 03:46:54 without actually subclassing 03:47:49 sure, if you also want to be compatible with people introspecting type-of, etc. --- well in the end the only program 100% backward compatible with a previous version is the very same program at the very same version. 03:49:07 keeping backward compatibility with handler case and all seems like a reasonable desire to me. 03:50:26 how are appropriate deftype and satisfies not doing it? 03:50:39 no subclassing necessary 03:51:50 (I mean, where your code is better factored with parameters, yet you maintain an ad-hoc inheritance organization for backward-compatibity) 04:06:12 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 04:11:34 It seems to me you guys are debating two slightly different things. 04:21:28 -!- les [moreorles@fsf/member/les] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:28:37 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:29:01 les [moreorles@fsf/member/les] has joined #sbcl 04:42:54 I think we're debating the same thing 04:44:30 whether, assuming a parameter condition makes sense, it's necessary to also/still keep a subclassing relationship so the outer condition maintains compatibility with an existing hierarchy 04:45:06 while such subclassing is possible, it's not necessary to keep being able to match conditions by type 04:45:23 just use sastifies 04:46:35 Fare: and this would be because of backward compatibility concerns? 04:47:13 I.e. someone HANDLER-BIND on a low-level condition, and then something changes so that this low-level one is now a chained condition so the handler no longer picks it up? 04:47:43 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:49:08 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:50:16 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has joined #sbcl 05:07:10 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:09:38 prxq [~mommer@x2f6c780.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #sbcl 05:21:11 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #sbcl 05:26:30 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-189-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:32:18 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32:53 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 05:37:55 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:55:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 06:03:26 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 06:06:26 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.207] has joined #sbcl 06:13:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:16:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:19:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 06:48:07 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #sbcl 07:08:07 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 07:09:31 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 07:14:00 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:08:53 -!- samskull` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:28:52 oleo [d4b81ecd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.184.30.205] has joined #sbcl 09:02:36 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 09:07:05 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:37 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 09:15:07 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:31:40 -!- kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:37:27 kludge` [~comet@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #sbcl 09:56:59 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 10:10:21 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:15:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:16:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 10:33:57 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:16:18 *stassats* stumbles upon a fascinating macro called WITH-NO-WITH 11:17:08 where ? 11:17:45 in run-program 11:18:05 hahaha 11:19:42 i'm yet to understand what on earth it actually does 11:19:55 (i see that it's for windows ) 11:20:07 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:21:03 sb-ext:run-program is fucked up as it is 11:21:18 with-no-with just adds some additional levels of headaches 11:21:52 <|3b|> is that trying to optionally remove a nested with-something? 11:24:44 *|3b|* likes how one of the things it elides already has #+win32 in the body 11:27:15 *stassats* tries to add support for the :environment parameter to +win32 11:27:32 while encountering a fair share of bizarre along the way 11:28:07 for example, putenv/getenv use the OEM coding page, but CreateProcessW used by run-program uses unicode (hence W) 11:28:57 *stassats* hates dealing with the consequences of "let's get it to work somehow and figure it out later" 11:29:07 but i like to do that myself too 11:29:29 you could copy the lfp_spawn() from libfixposix and use that on *nix 11:33:38 *stassats* adopts the "let's get it to work" strategy and tries to get it to work with ASCII first 11:54:21 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 11:56:48 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:57:20 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 11:58:10 -!- oleo [d4b81ecd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.184.30.205] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:02:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:03:19 and it now works 12:20:16 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 12:24:12 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-233-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 12:24:48 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:25:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:43:24 chris_l [~quassel@p57A5CD0B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 13:05:51 what a joke, i can't push to a remote repository because, apparently, mingw substitues /tmp with some windows equivalient, even if it's in 192.168.1.2:/tmp/ 13:23:17 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 13:28:07 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 13:28:10 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:29:35 that's quite amusing 13:30:06 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:31:11 and it looks more like msys-git fault 13:34:57 *stassats* consumed the allotted monthly amount of time i can stand windows development environment 13:44:38 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:44:43 other_nick-37 [~quassel@193.136.164.199] has joined #sbcl 13:52:00 with-no-with was kinda fun 13:54:27 shouldn't it be without-with? 13:54:50 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-185-126.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 13:55:34 I dunno. I'm still not entirely sure why it's done that way. 13:56:47 i didn't want to touch it, but i removed one instance of its usage by implementing :environment 13:57:30 stassats: what were you doing in Windows in the first place? 13:57:55 implementing :environment 13:58:57 But why? 13:59:11 because it wasn't implemented 14:00:09 Munksgaard [~philip@wireless-eduroam.science.ku.dk] has joined #sbcl 14:01:29 Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #sbcl 14:05:13 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #sbcl 14:05:17 with-no-with is now used only in two places, i can just remove it and add #+/-win32 manually 14:05:29 the amount of wtf with-no-with adds is not worth it 14:10:50 only 1 place after some rearrangements 14:12:24 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@wireless-eduroam.science.ku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:24:48 foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has joined #sbcl 14:25:17 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:39 -!- foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:48:20 -!- chris_l [~quassel@p57A5CD0B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:09 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #sbcl 15:13:26 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 15:21:20 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@boots.boinkor.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 15:24:51 stassats: I recommend fare-utils:nest in cases like that 15:25:01 which was taught me by mbaringer 15:25:57 it keeps everything nicely unindented to the left 15:26:12 you can easily #+ / #- a level 15:26:25 it's trivial to define and to use 15:27:26 it has all the advantages of C- Java- and python- like scopes, with none of the disadvantages 15:29:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.73.106] has joined #sbcl 15:29:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.73.106] has quit [Changing host] 15:29:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 15:42:08 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:43 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 15:47:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:52:45 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 16:09:08 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12:12 chris_l [~quassel@p57A5CD0B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 16:12:47 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has joined #sbcl 16:22:35 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:09 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 16:23:48 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:11 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 16:35:59 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:08 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 16:40:04 -!- other_nick-37 [~quassel@193.136.164.199] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:21 Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has joined #sbcl 16:48:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:49:30 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 16:57:39 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-ryrofasxtcclqedb] has joined #sbcl 17:02:13 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:49 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 17:07:21 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:20:33 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:23:28 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:57:27 ok. so: more on the typep thing. 17:58:19 I believe that annotating (conceptually) single-use LVAR with information about the form that initial generated the value will fit best with our pipeline. 17:59:41 so forwarding of let-bound values to IF etc. will Just Work. 18:00:09 tylergoza [~quassel@72.29.34.246] has joined #sbcl 18:00:54 but, I can't find a nice way to keep tracking the argument through data flow munging. 18:02:33 The best I can see is to construct a list of all the LVARs the receive REF into the typep-tested value (it doesn't make sense to try and flow type info on other values) 18:03:23 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 18:03:36 the LVAR annotation thing kind of makes sense to allow type/constant propagation despite inlining as well. 18:05:56 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-243-233-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:01 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-233-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 18:09:16 hydan [~yaaic@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #sbcl 18:22:35 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 18:35:18 -!- hydan [~yaaic@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Yaaic - 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