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quit [Client Quit] 10:45:53 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 10:50:29 huh, I suppose I should freeze again 10:50:44 unless I hear cries of pain I'll freeze this morning for release at the weekend? 10:50:48 um 10:50:55 "reeze this evening" 10:51:01 *Krystof* gives up 11:06:08 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 11:09:59 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #sbcl 11:23:30 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-227-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 11:28:38 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:30:57 momo-reina [~user@217.23.15.245] has joined #sbcl 11:43:34 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 11:44:00 -!- momo-reina [~user@217.23.15.245] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:58:08 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 12:01:53 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:02:15 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host199-226-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:02:32 Posterdati [~antani@host199-226-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #sbcl 12:03:00 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@12.205.226.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:23:34 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 12:26:00 drmeister [~drmeister@wsip-98-175-98-176.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #sbcl 12:35:00 good for me. Maybe we can commit the contribs ASDF magic next. 12:42:37 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.134.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:43:28 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 12:53:03 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wsip-98-175-98-176.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:54:19 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-243-227-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:13 drmeister [~drmeister@wsip-98-175-98-176.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #sbcl 12:56:26 pnpuff- [~v_@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #sbcl 12:56:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.69.168] has joined #sbcl 12:56:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.69.168] has quit [Changing host] 12:56:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 12:58:40 -!- pnpuff- [~v_@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Client Quit] 13:02:26 -!- psilord [~psilord@c-69-180-173-249.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:03:37 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #sbcl 13:26:23 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:29:55 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wsip-98-175-98-176.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:30:42 drmeister [~drmeister@wsip-98-175-98-176.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #sbcl 13:43:44 I get an «Invalid exit status: timer.impure.lisp», probably because of :sb-safepoints and :sb-wtimer 13:51:44 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-227-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 13:53:12 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.134.139] has joined #sbcl 13:59:46 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 13:59:59 teggi [~teggi@123.25.130.142] has joined #sbcl 14:00:02 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 14:02:20 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:10:37 psilord [~pkeller@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 14:13:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:27:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.69.168] has joined #sbcl 14:27:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.69.168] has quit [Changing host] 14:27:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 14:55:21 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.134.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:06:50 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.25.130.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:39 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #sbcl 15:16:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:17:14 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.134.139] has joined #sbcl 15:18:56 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@166.137.104.170] has joined #sbcl 15:20:42 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wsip-98-175-98-176.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:30:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.69.159] has joined #sbcl 15:30:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.69.159] has quit [Changing host] 15:30:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 15:38:00 -!- drmeiste_ is now known as drmeister 15:42:23 who may I talk to about https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/327537 ? 15:44:12 #sbcl, launchpad, or sbcl-devel. 15:46:17 I wanted to know how to find the details of the declaration in the bug I linked 15:46:48 what declaration? 15:47:01 (declaim (ftype (function (t t) (list-of-length 2)) bar)) 15:47:11 see the bug I linked 15:47:26 I see it. 15:48:11 I was trying to understand how to get that ftype declaration from inside the destructuring-bind macro 15:50:02 how should I do that? 15:50:04 you don't. Like the bug description says, the fix is to make sb-int:proper-list-of-length-p smarter. 15:51:06 the problem is interesting because conses are mutable, so (derived) cons types can't always be walked safely. 15:54:01 I don't think I understand completely your last sentence 15:55:38 In something like (let ((x (bar y z))) ... (destructuring-bind ...)), the type of X is derived as (cons t (cons t null)). However, (setf cdr) can change that, without ever assigning to the variable X itself. 15:56:20 ah ok 15:56:25 so, unless we're extra careful, the best we can do is assume that X is a CONS. 15:56:45 but still 15:56:56 bar is declared to return a value of type (list-of-length 2) 15:57:05 how do I get that information? 15:57:46 with a transform or an optimizer, in the compiler. 15:57:50 not during macroexpansion. 15:58:40 is there anything similar I could take a look at in sbcl's sources that you remind? 15:59:14 pnpuff- [~v_@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #sbcl 16:00:25 M-. on CAR for a derive-type 16:00:40 thanks 16:01:18 or on EQ for a deftransform. 16:01:56 I did M-. on (car (bar 1 2)) 16:08:58 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-249-113.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 16:09:58 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 16:19:55 hello guys, I'm trying in the spare time to understand a little bit about the internals of SBCL, so I'm finding very useful to start this blog: http://www.pvk.ca/Blog/2013/04/13/starting-to-hack-on-sbcl/ . But , please, anyone could point me to some reference or kindly explain me what fasl file are? are byte-compiled files or not? thanks in advance! 16:27:54 davazp [~user@204.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #sbcl 16:29:36 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.104.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:04 fasls are a mixture of extremely simple bytecode (called FOPs) and native code 16:32:10 A noob doubt is: if a fasl file contain "native code" why I can't to ./my-file.fasl to execute the code contained in it? 16:32:21 s/to/do 16:32:23 you can 16:34:16 the bytecodes aren't used for complicated operations, mostly they can construct simple values and set the values of global function / variable bindings. so something like "here's a blob of native code, set the symbol-function of the FOO to this code" 16:37:21 jsnell_: I'm at beginning, sorry but I don't understand still well some concepts... 16:40:32 that's fine, but if you're expecting a reply to that, you'll have to explain which part you don't understand :-) 16:42:20 (but the exact format of fasls isn't in general all that important. you could hack on sbcl for years and not care about it) 16:50:57 How can I do (if it's possible) to disassemble a fasl file? 16:51:57 what does that mean? 16:52:23 and what do you want to accomplish with it? 16:53:15 stassats: sorry for my strange questions,but for example, with C, i'm able to disassemble an object file as a binary file 16:54:05 Is a .fasl an assembled file? 16:56:46 can I only compile the lisp code and assemble it later? 16:59:05 bytecode maybe is a sort of interpreted code(I have to understand better this point) so it's not properly native code. I'm wrong? 16:59:29 pnpuff-: i am working to learn SBCL internals at the moment also but I am going the route of working on some of the easy bugs. if you wanna collaborate on some patches it will be great 16:59:39 pnpuff-: what do you want to do? 16:59:49 nicdev: i wouldn't recommend it, pnpuff- barely knows common lisp 17:00:12 stassats: I want understand how compiler works. 17:00:20 *the compiler 17:00:30 fasls is the wrong place to do that 17:01:12 pnpuff-: i think the python paper is a good place to start as pkhuong says in the blog post above and then rhode's paper 17:01:26 ok,thanks 17:01:45 pnpuff-: and you're again trying to understand things which are too hard 17:02:33 stassats: I'm starting to lern C from the white book 17:02:52 learning C won't help with common lisp 17:03:08 I need to understand the differences 17:03:58 i'm still not sure what are you trying accomplish in general, writing programs doesn't look to be your goal 17:06:59 I'm writing little programs, anyway I need know how is builded the car I use. 17:08:07 I just built HEAD and ran a benchmark from cl-6502, allocation profiling indicates it is slower due to sb-bignum but I didn't ask for sb-bignum. What have I done wrong? 17:08:50 redline6561: uh? sb-bignum is the usual bignum code. 17:08:55 what do you mean, didn't ask for sb-bignum? it's just a package where bignum code resides 17:09:00 a different question. i have a patch that's work in progress and i put it on the mailing list but have not got any comments. should i put on launchpad and request a review. I think my CL skills are still work in progress and so with technical questions, i might need opinion on style and stuch 17:09:16 if it's running, then it means that you're using bignums 17:09:47 nicdev: i have it starred, but haven't had a chance to reply 17:10:04 stassats: thanks! 17:10:05 and launchpad is a better place for things not to be lost 17:10:18 will upload it later with comments 17:10:37 pkhuong: oh... sorry, i was thinking of the new sb-gmp contrib 17:11:01 redline6561: but it's slower compared to what? 17:12:20 sbcl 1.1.6.debian, there shouldn't be bignums at all though, it's a 6502 emulator for heavens sake. let me dig in a minute... 17:13:34 I wouldn't be surprised if there were perf regressions in modarith code. I would be surprised if anyone managed to tickle them with real code. 17:14:54 well, it's now consing in left shifts where it wasn't before. 0 bytes -> 500 mb. I can probably add a declaration somewhere. 17:15:33 redline6561: same code? 17:16:16 Same code. 17:16:23 if you could isolate the test case, that'd be great 17:16:33 or just show the place in the code 17:16:52 I'll see what I can do. 17:17:14 is it a shift by a constant or a variable? 17:17:16 you know, if you have the allocation profiler you should just be able to find the function. 17:19:54 drmeister [~drmeister@wsip-98-175-98-176.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #sbcl 17:23:26 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@166.137.104.170] has joined #sbcl 17:25:58 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wsip-98-175-98-176.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:27:16 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.134.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:27:20 -!- pnpuff- [~v_@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:27:40 see http://paste.lisp.org/display/138147 17:28:19 I'll try and dig in further tonight after work. 17:28:39 pnpuff- [~v_@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #sbcl 17:29:28 I'll try to bisect a bit throughout the day. 17:29:29 -!- psilord [~pkeller@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:31:18 psilord [~pkeller@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 17:31:23 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:31:50 Sorry, I've defined a simple function. when I do (compiled-function-p #'the-name-of-function) I get T. How can I understand better how that function is compiles and what format has the compiled function and where the compiled function resides? 17:31:59 redline6561: that doesn't look like the code on github 17:32:13 s/compiles/compiled 17:32:45 *redline6561* checks 17:34:18 Not sure I follow. There have been changes since the last quicklisp release but they should be on github. And the non-consing has been in place since mid-May or sol. 17:35:21 drom describe I get something that confuse me. Is compiled to a lambda list? 17:35:27 *from 17:35:34 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 17:36:07 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:36:24 the profile says |6502|::MAYBE-UPDATE-CYCLE-COUNT calls LDB 17:37:44 ah, I see. Thanks. 17:41:19 but you'll get a lot better code if you add some type declarations. Without inlining or declarations, it's hard to infer that nearly all the values are byte or word-sized... so the code ends up being a lot more generic than it needs. 17:44:21 -!- pnpuff- [~v_@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:29 No problem. So the change in behavior is expected and I was just lucky it was doing smart things without declarations previously? SBCL 1.1.8 allocates a bit (16mb) in the test, but nothing like HEAD. 17:45:01 pnpuff- [~v_@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #sbcl 17:48:14 I don't know. It doesn't seem like I'm looking at the right code. 17:53:57 redline6561: got it. It's the new, correct modular arithmetic. 17:54:02 Ah, sorry. There's a lot of effected code and I didn't want to paste the whole project. LDB is called by set-status-bit in cpu.lisp but it has callers all over the place. 17:54:27 declaring the type of address and start should fix it. 17:54:47 pkhuong: the same thing occurs on 1.1.9 but not 1.1.8. 17:55:04 I'll try that. 17:56:40 redline6561: it's a bunch of correctness fixes that conspire. 17:57:01 That's what I feared. So SBCL is doing the right thing now and I'm not. No surprise there. :) 17:57:11 What declaration did you use? 17:57:21 where is cpu.lisp? 17:57:29 no. SBCL sometimes did the wrong thing. 17:57:37 now it's more robust, but that's extra code in some cases. 17:57:41 Added a declaration on ABSOLUTE 17:57:55 (declaim (ftype (function * (unsigned-byte 16)) absolute)) 17:58:05 pnpuff-: https://github.com/redline6561/cl-6502/blob/master/src/cpu.lisp 17:58:09 and, in m-u-c-c 17:58:09 (declare (type (unsigned-byte 16) address) 17:58:10 (type (or null (unsigned-byte 16)) start)) 17:58:44 Didn't realize you could * for all the args. Neat. 17:59:10 (values u16 &optional) will get slightly tighter code, at the expense of safety. 18:00:55 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:22 I find (logtest (logxor ...)) clearer. But that's probably a professional deformation. 18:03:40 redline6561: are you working to port SBCL on 8 bit processor? 18:04:02 Is the MOS 6502? 18:04:06 pnpuff-: oh heavens no! 18:04:31 pnpuff-: I don't think you can port ANSI CL to an 8-bit CPU. This is just a 6502 emulator written in CL :) 18:04:38 :-) 18:04:40 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@166.137.104.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:20 redline6561: clearer than (= (logand ...) (logand ...)) that is 18:05:55 Fair point. I'll try to clear that up. What revision of cl-6502 are you running, absolute isn't a function to call on HEAD. 18:06:12 whatever's in quicklisp 18:06:44 Gotcha. I'll try something similar with HEAD. What pointed you at absolute? 18:07:11 Looking at the code. 18:07:24 oh...right, older revision. Thanks. 18:08:54 random TODO: add modarith optimizers for logtest and logbitp. 18:10:24 That would be nice. :) I've considered posting this to sbcl-devel for optimization advice but haven't since I lack specific questions. 18:10:28 -!- davazp [~user@204.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:17 It runs that benchmark about 15x slower than lib6502 does locally ... and that's fast enough, really. 18:11:54 there's a lot of low-hanging fruits in the QL version, if you want to do better at some point. 18:12:47 The profile is much flatter on HEAD. I'm sure more low-hanging fruit is around. :) 18:12:55 another TODO: some specialised out of line MASK-SIGNED-FIELD. 18:13:21 most of the time we'll be m-s-f ing a fixnum to fixnum width... that's a no-op. 18:14:50 Still need to add some declarations for GETTER and STACK-PUSH-WORD but this is a good start. Thanks. 18:17:13 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.104.170] has joined #sbcl 18:21:20 -!- psilord [~pkeller@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:22:02 redline6561: Why have you chosen that processor? 18:22:28 why do you "like" it so much to write an emulator? 18:23:17 pnpuff-: Because it was used in the NES which I'm working on a full emulator for. Further discussion should probably happen in #lisp. 18:25:53 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:49:12 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-249-113.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:50:10 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-159-189.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 19:01:07 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 19:05:30 -!- pnpuff- [~v_@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #sbcl 19:07:30 psilord [~psilord@c-69-180-173-249.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 19:20:12 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.104.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:13 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.104.170] has joined #sbcl 19:45:40 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 19:56:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:16:04 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #sbcl 20:37:21 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:38:12 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 20:38:13 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:30 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 20:49:07 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8691fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:53:54 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0469.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:57:18 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.104.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:42 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 20:58:43 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.134.139] has joined #sbcl 21:05:10 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:30:28 -!- jarod_chen [~jarod_che@115.192.190.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:46 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 22:00:09 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af50941.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #sbcl 22:00:33 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.134.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:02:38 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5af5022d.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:03:38 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:30:41 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-243-227-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:23 jarod_ch_ [~jarod_che@115.192.190.206] has joined #sbcl 22:54:25 edgar-rfx [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #sbcl 22:55:34 -!- edgar-rfx is now known as edgar-rftx 22:56:49 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #sbcl 23:00:39 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host199-226-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:00:39 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:00:39 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:02:17 Posterdati [~antani@host199-226-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #sbcl 23:10:50 -!- edgar-rftx is now known as edgar-rft 23:20:12 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: all hope lost] 23:25:53 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32:10 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:44:17 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 23:48:34 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.104.170] has joined #sbcl 23:49:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.104.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:57 drmeister [~drmeister@12.205.226.130] has joined #sbcl