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11:06:37 pkhuong: there's a student application on GSoC for flexible RNGs. 11:06:48 You haven't signed up to be a mentor yet so you probably can't see it 11:10:49 I have, I think. 11:11:42 there, done. 11:19:58 -!- EvilTosha [~eviltosha@188.134.74.46] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:20:40 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #sbcl 11:25:21 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #sbcl 11:32:05 EvilTosha [~eviltosha@188.134.74.46] has joined #sbcl 11:34:18 -!- EvilTosha [~eviltosha@188.134.74.46] has quit [Client Quit] 11:45:58 -!- johnc [~johnc@61.135.169.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:10:21 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:24:02 johnc [~johnc@117.79.232.200] has joined #sbcl 12:25:06 -!- johnc [~johnc@117.79.232.200] has left #sbcl 12:30:13 davazp [~user@178.167.155.182.threembb.ie] has joined #sbcl 12:38:51 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #sbcl 12:44:31 -!- drmeister 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has joined #sbcl 17:27:15 nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 17:27:54 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-64.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:46 Hello all. Are we in code freeze at this point? 17:28:52 yes 17:29:04 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192005.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:29:59 Okay, can I get some feedback on some commits for early next release, then? The top four commits at http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/nyef.git/shortlog/refs/heads/ppc-fixes-2 17:33:14 I'm mostly worried about the stack-allocatable-fixed-objects one, TBH. I'm reasonably confident that the others are at least mostly correct. 17:35:25 nyef: is PA necessary for DX alloc? 17:36:05 I'm fairly sure that it isn't, but it is apparently fairly normal for it to be invoked anyway. 17:41:12 If not "fairly normal", I'll at least claim the existence of precedent. 17:41:27 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-64.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 17:45:39 the new sequence looks like a smarter ersion of what we do for list-or-list* 17:46:03 Yes, that's part of where I cribbed from. 17:46:58 Do I understand correctly that the clrrwi instruction basically clears the lowtags from the pointer? 17:47:19 More the point, clears the lowtags from an ALREADY ALIGNED pointer? 17:48:42 exactly what I see as well 17:49:22 Okay, that's what I thought. 17:50:42 is there a reason we align the stack with a conditional, btw? 17:50:53 I have no idea. 17:51:07 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@netblock-68-183-229-245.dslextreme.com] has quit [Quit: Snamich] 17:51:14 A lot of this code pre-dates my initial hacking on the PPC backend. 17:52:02 It's my second time looking at the PPC backend, after the CAS vops. 17:54:13 There's probably plenty of cruft in here. 17:54:32 Which reminds me, we don't stack-allocate value-cells anymore, do we? 17:54:58 not sure. 17:55:07 I'm thinking to maybe get rid of the stack-allocate-p info argument to the VOPs. 17:55:12 What happens for unsafe NLX? 17:55:40 no value cell at all, I suppose. 17:55:59 Actually, I think there are two different ways to allocate a value-cell. 17:56:26 One of them goes via the fixed-alloc path, which supports stack-allocation (or doesn't) "naturally". 17:57:26 The other goes via a named VOP, and that one has an info argument for stack-allocation, but I get the distinct impression that it's constantly nil these days. 17:59:03 AFAIK, that's right. 17:59:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 18:00:19 Okay, so removing the info argument would be a good minor cleanup task. 18:03:37 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-aqqmvtkmqfilhszw] has joined #sbcl 18:05:51 btw, re precise stack scanning, do you have an opinion (apart from "it's a horrible kludge" ;) on packing boxed and unboxed slots at different (mis)alignments? That still leaves arguments and return values, so regions between FP and SP (including interrupt contexts) would be fully conservative, as would registers. 18:06:42 -!- aba` [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21d:9ff:fe30:1f87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:58 aba` [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21d:9ff:fe30:1f87] has joined #sbcl 18:07:41 Well, my first reaction is somewhat less POLITE than "it's a horrible kludge", but certainly expresses the same sentiment. 18:08:00 werid that misalignments are allowed on a platform hw, but not software wise.... 18:08:40 gcc wouldn't allow misalignments would it ? 18:10:03 So, wait, WHERE do the unboxed slots go? 18:12:28 something like, the stack (including return address and old fp) is treated as a sequence of [boxed boxed unboxed unboxed], except for the topmost frame that can be freeform. DX alloc is another issue. 18:13:03 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 18:14:04 So, it'd be dependent on something like A3 being low for boxed and high for unboxed? 18:14:32 A3? 18:14:48 The address line. 18:15:28 yeah. 18:15:29 Probably a purely notional address line if your cache lines are more than 16 bytes wide. 18:16:19 It seems as though it would be somewhat wasteful of stack space, somehow. 18:16:27 And completely breaks DX alloc, of course. 18:16:52 no, not relaly. 18:17:43 Oh? 18:17:48 Align the stack on 4 words instead of 2 before allocating. The GC already has to be able to disambiguate between pairs of descriptors and object headers. 18:18:32 Stack frames can store object headers in slots, though, can't they? I know that we can have them in boxed registers. 18:19:04 ISTR that we're currently doing something like treating the stack as a large register file. 18:19:23 (When it comes to scavenging, at least.) 18:20:00 but object headers would be in unboxed TNs 18:20:21 why would they be in boxed registers? 18:20:42 Because the GC knows to ignore them when they're in registers, so they can go in an any-reg. 18:22:38 We already take an extra indirection for unboxed structure slots, don't we? 18:22:51 (Over and above a boxed structure slot access, that is.) 18:23:14 not an indirection, per se. 18:23:30 unboxed struct slots are indexed from the end of the structure. 18:23:56 nyef: ok, but these registers don't span VOPs, so they shouldn't hit the stack. 18:23:57 Right, so you're loading the instance size in order to find the pointer to the unboxed storage. 18:27:39 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #sbcl 18:28:24 Anyway, what I was thinking was that if we burn an extra boxed slot to hold a pointer to a specialized vector for the unboxed slot storage, we could possibly stack-allocate such structures even on a precisely-scavenged stack, putting the unboxed vector on the number stack. 18:28:47 The problem being that the current d-x logic only saves and whatnot from the control stack, not from the number stack. 18:29:49 and I'm thinking of letting structures interleave boxed and unboxed slots... 18:32:56 -!- aba` [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21d:9ff:fe30:1f87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:10 aba` [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21d:9ff:fe30:1f87] has joined #sbcl 18:47:34 davazp [~user@178.167.228.180.threembb.ie] has joined #sbcl 18:48:08 -!- aba` [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21d:9ff:fe30:1f87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:22 aba` [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21d:9ff:fe30:1f87] has joined #sbcl 19:00:10 Umm... In the test suite, what's the difference between :fails-on and :skipped-on or whatever they're called? I mean, I know that one means that it'll actually be run and reported while the other means that it's never run, but what's the actual higher-level "meaning"? 19:01:50 skipped-on may crash the process irreparably 19:02:06 or hang it 19:04:47 So, in general, we'd prefer to fails-on than to skipped-on? 19:05:09 yes 19:05:49 i'm thinking about turning all the test-cases submitted to the launchpad into fails-on :everywhere test-cases 19:05:56 so that if you accidentally fix it, you know it 19:06:18 something like bugs.[im]pure.lisp 19:06:48 That could be neat. 19:07:18 Inflates the "successful" output from the test suite a bit more, of course... 19:07:33 At least with the colored test output it's easier to spot the actual important problems. 19:08:20 they me be silenced, and output only when they succeed unexpectedly 19:08:49 the reason for adding colored output is because i missed a failure among all the expected failurs 19:10:40 It's a definite improvement, that's for sure. (-: 19:29:56 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 19:37:32 -!- davazp [~user@178.167.228.180.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:42:13 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:58:13 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-64.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:13 sdemarre [~serge@233.154-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #sbcl 20:28:22 davazp [~user@178.167.228.180.threembb.ie] has joined #sbcl 20:32:22 -!- aba` [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21d:9ff:fe30:1f87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:35 aba` [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21d:9ff:fe30:1f87] has joined #sbcl 20:32:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:14 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af50b96.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #sbcl 20:37:36 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c030b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:37:43 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:58 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c030b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 20:38:08 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 20:39:06 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5af50bb9.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:40:57 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Client Quit] 20:46:08 Is part of our allocate-vector contract to zero the vector data storage? 20:46:24 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 20:46:30 I think so 20:46:31 I'm tempted to say that it is, given the x86-64 version of allocate-vector-on-stack. 20:46:59 Okay thanks. 20:47:00 particularly if it's a vector of pointers, but even a vector of unboxed data is ideally zeroed so that you don't get NaNs 20:47:01 nyef: we depend on it. 20:47:13 for strings, no? 20:47:26 Well, it can't be a vector of unboxed data here, because it's a PPC control stack that I'm allocating on. 20:47:42 So even if it's a vector of pointers, they're all fresh enough to not break the GC, guaranteed. 20:47:50 return addresses? 20:47:58 Are boxed. 20:48:05 ah, right. 20:48:59 we have to until we stop optimising zero-init into nothingness 20:52:49 -!- sdemarre [~serge@233.154-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:54:16 On another topic, the problem in gencgc that Eric Marsden reported as causing test failures in the freeze period for 1.1.6 only actually causes one test failure, though it triggers during heap exhaustion reporting as well, and turned out to be fairly simple to fix. 20:55:57 good stuff. 20:56:34 That's the commit in my branch about fixing gencgc_pickup_dynamic(). 21:05:21 -!- temerson [~temerson@pdc-cdn-npool.ebscohost.com] has quit [Quit: temerson] 21:07:00 map-allocated-objects could use some love, if you feel like you can handle more GCish stuff (: 21:08:16 Failures to do with repeated invocation of ROOM on non-x86oid gencgc are on my list. 21:08:29 map-allocated-objects is an obvious suspect there. 21:09:43 it's got some definite brain damage. 21:10:32 Can we blame dan?b for it? 21:12:09 some of it's recent, I think. The non-signed-word n-obj-byte, didn't used to happen, that's for sure. 21:12:19 Oh boy. 21:13:00 the obvious fix revealed an issue in XC: we don't have callable stubs for signed-byte-foo-p. 21:14:19 but then I tried to work on consing a bit and realised that modular word arithmetic makes everything simple. 21:18:27 well. closer to sane. probably not simple. 21:18:27 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 21:20:17 Well, the ROOM logic has always been a festering eyesore, so actually going over it with an eye towards a proper cleanup would be good anyway. 21:21:25 btw, do you still have your genesis-for-deployment branch? 21:21:51 -!- Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:22:57 Ahh... maybe. What was involved? 21:24:24 you used the XC logic to assemble a core from fasls that came from both SBCL and an external code base. 21:24:27 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c030b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:24:56 That doesn't quite sound like a stunt that I've pulled. 21:25:07 pkhuong: what would be the benefit? 21:25:28 No, I definitely don't remember doing that. 21:25:29 nyef: pretty sure it was you (: 21:25:48 stassats: smaller image by not pulling stuff in, rather than GCing it out. 21:26:06 nyef: around the first round of sbcl-os. 21:26:17 Ah, that might be plausible. 21:26:19 don't imagine the savings would be significant 21:26:55 stassats: The first thing left out would be the compiler. 21:27:09 stassats: why not? that establishes a basis to have logic determine what to pull in, rather than magic to determine what can be left out 21:27:51 It wouldn't've been meant to provide a full CL environment, just to have the ability to build tiny cores for an ill-defined subset. 21:28:08 I'm vaguely remembering something about this now. 21:28:37 That geological strata of files might be in local storage, otherwise I should be able to check this weekend. 21:30:30 nyef: around that time, I tried a lisp-side GC that simultaneously replaced some references with stubs... I'm still not sure which I prefer. 21:34:05 I'm not finding it in local storage, I'm afraid. 21:35:24 And it'd take me some digging to find any historical storage as well, come to think it, as I tend to just keep several generations of "oldhome" directories and whatnot nested like russian dolls... 21:35:58 I found what looks to be an sbcl-os build directory or two, though. 21:36:06 bah, 'sok. 21:55:43 scymtym_ [~user@ip-5-147-116-166.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #sbcl 22:02:37 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 22:09:23 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:21:51 Okay, not sitting through another PPC build tonight. Not after the last one failed with such an incredibly descriptive error message ("Argh", more or less) leading me to finding an error in my instruction selection and a semantic error in my memory-zeroing logic. 22:22:05 Takes an hour for a successful build anyway on this machine. 22:22:23 what kind of a machine is that? 22:22:55 An iMac G5. 22:23:12 stassats: ~2005 era, I guess. 22:23:17 With an nVidia graphics card not correctly supported by nouveau. 22:23:48 an hour seems a bit excessive, even for 2005 22:23:52 I'm hoping to get my paws on an ALS or iSight model soon, as they at least have Radeon drivers that are supposed to work. 22:24:30 Single-core, might only be 1.8 GHz. 22:24:37 *stassats* would love to get his hand on some ppc/sparc/mips machine where build times are at least 15 minutes 22:24:49 Plus using the slow-framebuffer-from-hell. 22:24:50 if such exist 22:25:00 You mean... at MOST, surely? 22:25:19 at least that fast 22:25:30 I'd be happy with an hour build-time on MIPS. 22:25:49 Okay, so at most 15 minutes to the build, and preferably faster? 22:25:56 Yeah, that'd be nice. 22:25:56 right 22:26:16 I remember waiting overnight for gcc on my 14-way SPARCv9... took three days to get it working :\ 22:26:20 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:21 Even more nice, if they all had form factors similar to the Raspberry Pi. 22:26:32 an hour would seem like an eternity, coming after 3 minutes build-times... 22:26:49 An hour feels normal to me, TBH. 22:26:52 stassats: at some point, qemu will be faster. 22:27:04 I think that even my netbook takes about an hour for a build. 22:31:51 i would imagine POWER7 would be fast at compiling SBCL 22:32:18 I'm hoping for good results once I get a PS3 running Linux... IF I get a PS3 running Linux. 22:32:33 or POWER8 22:32:33 the ones that are shipped at 5+ GHz with watercooling? Probably (: 22:33:02 although, Power and PPC aren't exactly the same thing. 22:33:19 and costing into six figures 22:36:44 Meanwhile, it's probably time that I got moving. 22:36:46 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 22:38:06 mips has (will have) this proAptiv thing, maybe that would be snappier 22:38:13 Snamich [~Snamich@netblock-68-183-229-245.dslextreme.com] has joined #sbcl 22:43:48 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.106.95] has joined #sbcl 22:59:17 TuckerD [~tucker@c-98-216-148-67.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 23:02:19 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.106.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:16:53 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:22:59 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F4C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:24:47 ASau [~user@p5797F4C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 23:27:23 -!- davazp [~user@178.167.228.180.threembb.ie] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:30:36 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 23:40:43 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:48:24 ASau` [~user@p5797F473.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 23:51:35 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F4C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]