00:24:42 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:55:47 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:18:53 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-187-176.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:38:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 02:43:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:46:38 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #sbcl 03:03:00 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:09:18 pkhuong, great list 03:54:25 pkhuong: curious what the impact of this would be: "Avoid interleaving boxed/unboxed pages" 05:02:18 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:02:48 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 05:09:25 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 05:09:58 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:10:02 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 05:11:30 jarod_ch_ [~jarod_che@115.193.163.175] has joined #sbcl 05:17:41 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #sbcl 05:18:12 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:18:35 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #sbcl 05:51:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 05:54:19 -!- psilord [~psilord@c-69-180-173-249.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:19:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:49:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.207] has joined #sbcl 06:49:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.207] has quit [Changing host] 06:49:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 07:29:30 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:47:14 brucem: unboxed pages are never write protected, while boxed pages usually are. Interleaving them means that the OS must deal with a large number of tiny ranges in its page protection table... and that makes fork incredibly slow. 07:47:37 ah, makes sense now. 07:49:46 pkhuong: for comparison, I suspect that in MPS, you'd put the unboxed values in a leaf pool and the boxed stuff would (mostly?) be in amc pools, so it'd be separated that way. 07:49:54 so they should be sorted, to have only a single kind of page per hugepage? 07:50:28 flip214: the easy hack would be to allocate boxed from the bottom and unboxed from the top of the address range 07:50:55 But, as with all GC works, there's core files to deal with. 07:51:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:53:03 pkhuong: Unicode normalisation for symbol comparison sounds interesting. 07:53:42 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.87.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:53:46 pkhuong: I've worked with internationalisation and Unicode issues in the past. Is there anything I can do to help in that area? 07:54:05 Krystof would know (: 07:54:24 pkhuong: I can at least report that using hugepages can help a fair bit. 07:54:44 I've seen a server with 128GB RAM, of which 16GB were used _just_in_the_pagetables_ .... 07:55:34 flip214: help for what? They're currently not that hot for SBCL: either we track writes at a 2MB penalty, or suffer from splitting overhead on writes to old data. 07:55:56 Once boxed and unboxed data are better segregated, (T)HP for unboxed pages might make sense. 07:55:57 GMP, hash-tables, peephole, integer truncate/etc, PRNG, accurate type derivation ;; these interest me 07:57:26 pkhuong: "help" as in "making more memory available for the application" and "getting more performance" 07:59:46 with newer linux kernel sbcl wouldn't have to explicitly support HP, the transparent HP should work fine... 08:00:16 flip214: and, like I said, THPs really aren't a win for boxed pages. 08:01:02 I wouldn't know about that, I can offer some additional bits of experience. 08:01:33 Where can I read up on what boxed pages are? 08:01:34 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #sbcl 08:02:32 loke: pages in which managed pointers are stored. 08:03:20 pkhuong: Right, I figured that much. But what's special about them? Why are they separated into their own pages? 08:04:35 loke: we need to detect writes to pages we've already scanned during a previous GC for generationality to work. We do that with mprotect-based write protection. (MPS does the same) 08:05:34 Ah, I see 08:05:36 there's no need to track updates to data that is pointer-free, because we're only interested in the potential creation of references from old objects to new ones. 08:05:37 Clever 08:23:04 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 08:28:13 leoc [~leoc.git@p4FF79E84.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #sbcl 08:43:22 huh, yes, org, how did I forget that? Too much time being management 08:43:38 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 08:44:22 thanks, pkhuong; I'll work on it some as I go round London today 08:44:55 (aside: having a list of "bite-sized" projects is a good thing whether or not the big G thinks that we are a suitable "mentoring organization") 08:45:42 -!- akovalenko [~user@77.51.4.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:45:50 right 08:48:04 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:50:37 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:59:27 so, SB-KERNEL::HEAP-EXHAUSTED-ERROR doesn't either land in ldb, nor causes lose-on-corruption 08:59:33 and i don't want to disable the debugger 09:00:14 Krystof: so, I was told you could tell me if there was anything I could do with respect to Unicode work? 09:00:56 well, i guess it will crash sooner or later anyway 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yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:26:10 ASau [~user@46.115.41.57] has joined #sbcl 19:38:29 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-uhuxcbxlsqrwbavc] has joined #sbcl 19:50:35 well.. I'm getting some feedback that the projects are too easy. I think that's a good sign (: 19:51:38 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #sbcl 19:58:33 Krystof: re PRNG, I consider MT fairly high speed (sure, we could go for sfmt or dsfmt, but still). I feel like we should try to have one that's not crypto, but statistically solid, and ideally that generates doubles natively, rather than integers. 20:03:56 sure. Edit to taste 20:05:00 (one thing we must remember is to upload a version of this some time around European late afternoon tomorrow) 20:05:16 ok. I know how I'm spending the evening ;) 20:05:44 Also, I spent some time with a dude who works in error analysis for FP... he thought our problem re numeric bounds derivation was perverse, but had some interesting suggestions... He also warned me that monotone functions sometimes aren't... 20:06:33 He suggests handling open float bounds by moving an ULP to only consider closed ones, and basically round outward by one ULP after each operation. 20:12:39 Talking about SOC projects? 20:12:45 -!- Guest20762 is now known as reb 20:13:52 reb: partly. 20:16:01 I don't know what organization is applying, but it may be helpful to have some ITA folks signed up as project mentors, if that's possible. 20:16:37 Noted. Krystof and jsnell are handling that end, I believe. 20:19:01 there's no space anywhere to list mentors as far as I can see, but I have said that the ex-ITA folks can vouch for us 20:36:31 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-uhuxcbxlsqrwbavc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:37:38 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:46:53 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:08 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-dbovlerfmmsirncg] has joined #sbcl 21:07:34 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 21:16:42 -!- zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:17:27 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:26 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-201.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 21:21:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 21:26:00 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-dbovlerfmmsirncg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:58:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:10 zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has joined #sbcl 22:03:15 is there a recommended lisp gtk2 toolkit ? 22:04:04 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:05:07 -!- zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has quit [Client Quit] 22:06:37 zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has joined #sbcl 22:08:14 -!- psilord1 [~psilord@23-25-144-220-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:08:22 zophy: ask #lisp. 22:10:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 22:11:20 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-nlgsxqowglczydkj] has joined #sbcl 22:14:29 -!- sdemarre [~serge@194.81-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:15:50 -!- zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has quit [Quit: i've noticed the sun has been moving lately] 22:19:43 -!- akovalenko [~user@77.51.63.57] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:01 akovalenko [~user@77.51.63.57] has joined #sbcl 22:23:36 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-nlgsxqowglczydkj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:37:35 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 22:47:47 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 22:55:41 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2b75.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:02:56 https://github.com/pkhuong/sbcl-gsoc2013/blob/master/sbcl-projects.org updated with more stuff. 23:05:07 Would the "quick compilation" thing include that bug about being able to disable constraint propagation? 23:07:00 At least partially. 23:07:16 That one scales very high. 23:07:55 meaning it would be difficult, or...? 23:08:40 it can be as difficult as one wants. 23:08:49 ah. 23:09:55 I try to make sure everything has an easy version (i.e. what I'd consider to be a couple days and at most one week of hacking), but that anyone so motivated can find interesting stuff to tack on. 23:15:04 This should prove a good resource for potential new contributors outside GSOC too. :) 23:24:05 *drewc* has not been a mentor of GSOC since 2009 ... and is tempted to get back involved 23:27:40 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #sbcl 23:28:05 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:35:34 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:35:46 parametric recursive types, huh 23:37:36 Bike: step 1. write tons of headings. step 2. try to fill them reasonably. step 3. delete most of the headings. 23:37:46 heh. 23:42:20 Bike_ [~Glossina@71-34-68-165.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 23:42:34 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@71-34-68-165.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:42:51 Bike_ [~Glossina@71-34-68-165.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 23:45:12 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:46:56 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 23:54:05 -!- leuler [~user@p548FDFD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.6 $ (IRC client for Emacs)]