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[~dioxirane@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #sbcl 11:57:48 -!- dioxriane [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:08:19 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:21:54 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 12:25:30 scymtym: I'm looking through your sequence-traverser patch now 12:26:04 I spent a bit of time before looking at it, thinking about what the solution might look like ("hm, but if it's a symbol macro, that means it'll get computed every time, so we'll want a cache, hm, ...") 12:27:03 I then saw that you'd implemented a cache. So, good :-) The only remaining thing is that (setf length) forms don't work 12:27:13 Krystof: if you find a general mechanism to explicitly perform common subexpression elimination and get the compiler to compute something once and then reuse the cached value, nikodemus had some nice opportunities in CLOS, iirc. 12:27:43 that might not be an issue (define-sequence-traverser is for internal use, probably) but I think it's fixable too 12:28:09 pkhuong: what do you mean "explicitly"? Humanly? 12:30:04 Krystof: right. Tag expressions somehow so the compiler doesn't have to perform any analysis except recognize that a tag is EQ 12:32:56 well, isn't it something like (let ((#:foo)) (... (truly-the type (or #:foo (setf #:foo ))) ...))? 12:33:07 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:58 Krystof: only if you know exactly the set of values you want to cache ahead of time. 12:34:07 (before expanding the body of LET) 12:35:09 oh, details. Well, could you do it on a per-component basis, where one of the things towards the end of optimizing a component is to wrap a LET around some number of blocks? I am not an IR1 person 12:35:24 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 12:35:40 can SAPs be stack allocated? 12:35:58 under #+stack-allocatable-fixed-objects 12:36:06 Krystof: something like that. 12:36:29 stassats: I don't think there's a DX allocator for SAPs. 12:36:39 i mean in theory 12:38:00 oh, I don't see why not... but representation selection might foil your plans by unboxing the SAP value. 12:38:00 the alien mechanism goes to some lengths to avoid allocating saps at all 12:38:44 saps go through a chain of closures, so avoiding allocating them is not an option 12:38:49 short of calling COMPILE 12:38:53 Krystof: well, alien values anyway. 12:39:04 sorry 12:39:24 stassats: it might be simpler to pass around a vector of words. 12:39:39 let's face it, I'm barely a lisp person these days. So embarrassing when writing very simple things out 12:39:51 I have fallen back to my old friends, do* and tagbody 12:39:52 and i just discovered that cffi:with-foreign-object with non-constant size does not stack allocate, even bigger bummer than the saps themselves 12:40:25 pkhuong: it's supposed to be reentrant 12:40:26 stassats: time you build an allocation region system in CL. 12:40:36 stassats: and? Pass a DX vector of words. 12:42:14 it's actually a part of caching, so the size is known eventually, but it's done through continuations, calling COMPILE can solve all of those problems 12:44:06 ccl stack allocates in const and non-const cases 12:44:39 because stack allocating 20MB is a Good Idea. 12:46:10 or maybe it only stack allocates the pointer, i'm not sure 12:48:11 no, the whole thing the stack 12:51:26 (and in my case the stack is actually a call stack, so size is not a problem) 13:03:24 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.100] has joined #sbcl 13:07:00 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 13:11:35 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:19 dioxriane [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #sbcl 13:19:21 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:24:54 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 13:32:49 Thra11 [~thrall@34.159.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #sbcl 13:35:56 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-251-222.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 13:38:30 *stassats* solved a part of consing by passing a base SAP and an offset, instead of an incremented SAP 13:39:03 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:39:54 hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #sbcl 13:48:11 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 13:49:50 psilord [~psilord@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 13:53:35 oh right. On x86-64, you can also shift out the top bits and pass fixnums around. 13:54:09 yeah, thought about that too 13:54:26 but it'll involve some more modifications 13:55:08 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #sbcl 13:56:02 *stassats* wonders what good will it make if trying for all functions to have 3 arguments at most 14:00:28 Krystof: sorry, I was away the whole time 14:07:42 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-251-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:33 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-251-222.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 14:10:03 scymtym: there's still plenty of time :) 14:10:42 Krystof: ok 14:11:56 since it's internal-only code, I think your patch is fine; any client wanting to call (setf length) will discover that it doesn't work and fix it 14:12:47 Krystof: I didn't think of that problem when writing the patch 14:13:06 (I think it could be fixed by accessing the length through an inline function: (symbol-macrolet ((length (%length))) ...) and defining a setf expander for %length 14:13:14 ... but that's probably not important right now :) 14:13:33 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:13:34 I sse 14:13:41 it should only affect the lexical environment anyway, right? 14:13:53 yeah 14:14:14 so a setf-expander which expands into something that sets the cache variable would be the right thing 14:14:30 meanwhile, I was actually writing a test case for an infinite sequence 14:15:02 Krystof: nice 14:15:09 did you see the attached code? 14:15:26 I saw what you posted yesterday -- bit too many dependencies for now 14:15:27 it is too longwinded for a test case in SBCL, of course 14:15:36 also I need to remind myself of how this all works 14:16:13 yes, I just wanted to illustrate the code that lead to discovering this 14:16:42 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:18 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 14:19:11 Krystof: would you go as far as too guarantee support for infinite sequences when their implementation respects certain rules? 14:19:54 I thought that infinite sequences cannot be CL sequences 14:21:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:21:27 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@34.159.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:23:13 Thra11 [~thrall@180.26.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #sbcl 14:26:45 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:30:51 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #sbcl 14:32:19 yeah, formally CL sequences need to have a length 14:32:31 it's a pain but there you go. 14:33:07 I think the most that one can do is come up with a set of rules that allow infinite sequences to be used -- but client code would have to respect those rules too 14:33:13 the most obvious being "don't call length" 14:33:37 but SEARCH might be quite bad too 14:34:11 at least there are start* and end* 14:34:21 yes, but those need to be checked for being valid bounds 14:34:40 so, you wouldn't be able to use the generic implementation for any of the sequence functions 14:34:58 true, I forgot 14:35:05 (i.e. you'd have to have methods on all of the sb-sequence:substitute & friends functions) 14:35:21 yes 14:35:28 given that, it might not be impossible 14:35:40 (I have an infinite sequence here that I can call elt and (setf elt) on) 14:35:50 but now, I must go to A Meeting 14:36:06 ok, thanks for looking at the patch 14:36:52 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@180.26.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:38:02 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 14:39:43 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-ecgtfnrovginviqx] has joined #sbcl 14:44:05 zulu_inuoe_ [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has joined #sbcl 15:02:00 Thra11 [~thrall@6.16.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #sbcl 15:07:40 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 15:10:35 Has any work been done in the area of creating an SBCL shared runtime library (ala msvcrt.dll) for application distribution purposes? I know that this sort of question is frequently asked, but I haven't found much in this specific area in my searches 15:11:07 By 'this sort of question' I mean application distribution 15:11:23 zulu_inuoe_: I think foom or nyef had some thoughts, a long time ago. 15:13:53 pkhuong: Thanks. Perhaps they may chime in >:] 15:20:05 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-ecgtfnrovginviqx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:32:46 akovalen` [~user@95.72.100.104] has joined #sbcl 15:36:40 -!- akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:41:48 -!- akovalen` [~user@95.72.100.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:53:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.247.183] has joined #sbcl 15:53:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.247.183] has quit [Changing host] 15:53:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 16:01:02 scymtym: still there? 16:01:18 take a look at http://paste.lisp.org/+2X2J 16:01:39 Krystof: ok 16:02:27 (with annotation) 16:05:32 (setf elt) and delete are neat 16:06:40 it is similar to what I was doing except I wanted immutable sequences with continuation-based "next-element" function 16:06:43 good! I got bored before implementing subseq, but I think it's possible too 16:07:10 what length would return? 16:07:17 it would not 16:07:22 not return? 16:07:27 or return nothing? 16:07:43 length on these things would signal some kind of error 16:08:00 then again, using them only makes sense if your algorithm doesn't depend on their length 16:08:07 regarding length computation for bounds checking: in my experiments i used a predicate LENGTH> (read "length is at least") 16:08:21 maybe something similar would make sense for bounds checking 16:08:32 it would even be faster in some finite cases 16:08:36 yeah. But for now I think I'm convinced that your patch makes sense 16:08:41 e.g. subseq 0 10 of 1000-elt list 16:08:58 good :) 16:10:09 Krystof: if I had more patches, should I file "wishlist" bugs for those? 16:12:09 hm, tricky. I don't know what's best for my workflow, let alone anyone else's 16:12:33 my mail buffers are full of tagged messages, not that that helps. Probably launchpad bugs are the way to go, yes 16:13:27 ok 16:13:33 thanks 16:20:34 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #sbcl 16:21:05 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:22:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:23:44 wow, I'm in the unusual state of having a whole development line plausibly completable over the freeze period ready for instant inclusion post-freeze 16:23:48 what's going on with the world? 16:23:54 oh, right, it's the end of term 16:24:42 _8david [~user@port-212-202-134-139.static.qsc.de] has joined #sbcl 16:26:33 indeed. It seems to be the end of the european term (: 16:27:13 AND NOT A MOMENT TOO SOON 16:31:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 16:46:13 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@6.16.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:47:05 Thra11 [~thrall@219.210.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #sbcl 16:52:20 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.47.247.183] has joined #sbcl 16:52:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:58:03 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.47.247.183] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:58:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 17:04:22 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:13:47 -!- dioxriane [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:21:38 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@219.210.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:31:46 akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has joined #sbcl 17:33:23 end of the term is in march? wow. 17:34:22 ah, there's 3 terms? 17:37:59 foom: I don't get it either, I only know that the rsearch center is abuzz with admin BS ;) 17:40:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:17 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: supernova explosion] 17:44:18 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:52:51 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.79.135] has joined #sbcl 18:01:36 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #sbcl 18:03:35 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-wcugwjavkfubfxtf] has joined #sbcl 18:07:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 18:20:44 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:23:21 Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.112.136] has joined #sbcl 18:25:20 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.79.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:34:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:35:23 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 18:39:33 dioxirane [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #sbcl 19:04:38 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.79.135] has joined #sbcl 19:16:18 Thra11_ [~thrall@146.90.241.211] has joined #sbcl 19:18:06 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:18:28 pkhuong: regarding that "range reduction bug" with GNU fortran compiler there is no problem for a REAL*8 (on amd64 it's not supported the quadruple precision anyway) 19:18:38 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.112.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:21:47 dioxirane: ok. It might call to its own runtime that performs the computation more accurately. 19:22:35 I still don't see how all this flapping around is relevant. It's not on our end. We'll probably mark is as an expected failure, and tell people who want better range reduction on openbsd to bug their OS's maintainers. 19:54:40 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:05:03 yes pkhuong , linking with -lm give me the same problem... 20:34:33 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-251-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:41:01 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-159-2.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 20:43:53 mmm ... pkhuong: a curiosity... how many decimal digits of M_PI constant are correct on your platform? 20:46:32 ..it's defined in math.h 20:55:36 *drewc* looks at the calender .. 3.22, so all decimals are wrong! :P 21:02:06 dioxirane: this isn't about M_PI. Reducting with M_PI is incredibly lossy (and what we basically do on x87). 21:05:03 drewc: take a lokk at IEEE 754 at least :P 21:10:48 pkhuong: what else I have to consider? 21:19:51 the range reduction algorithm. 21:25:59 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:36 -!- psilord [~psilord@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:28:27 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2ccc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:28:32 ok pkhuong, tomorrow I'll try to preload another math library and maybe something more before ask to the developers. thx. 21:28:43 -!- dioxirane [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:46:59 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 21:56:08 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:04:52 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 22:10:49 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #sbcl 22:20:07 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:40:50 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.79.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:59:38 psilord [~psilord@c-69-180-173-249.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 23:37:22 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:46:12 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.4] 23:56:07 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #sbcl 23:58:25 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-wcugwjavkfubfxtf] has quit [Quit: Leaving]