00:07:38 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.188.5] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:17:26 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:35:01 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 00:39:32 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:44:15 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 01:13:04 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2b3d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:14:00 -!- Guest32713 [user@nat/google/x-pkhinwrebdsquvgh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:15 Guest32713 [user@nat/google/x-ndwjbopzvnxfqilu] has joined #sbcl 01:35:22 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 01:43:19 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:40:11 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 02:45:06 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:40:33 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 03:44:40 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:40:53 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 04:45:31 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:22:46 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@46.208.152.134] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 05:41:14 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 05:45:57 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:23:27 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-156-91.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:41:35 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 06:42:23 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: bleeding] 06:46:14 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:55:15 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:12:47 -!- _8david` [~user@port-92-195-127-233.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:41:59 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 07:45:34 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.60.179] has joined #sbcl 07:46:28 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:42:17 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 08:46:44 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:50:28 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 09:31:00 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:42:37 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 09:47:07 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:42:58 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 10:47:32 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:22:59 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-208-244.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 11:43:20 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 11:47:54 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:12:54 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 12:12:54 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o nikodemus 12:15:08 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.60.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:19:14 lichtblau [~user@port-212-202-134-139.static.qsc.de] has joined #sbcl 12:24:38 o/ 12:25:05 hello 12:25:32 *stassats* eagerly awaits some cool sbcl related news from nikodemus 12:26:56 well, i was thinking of adding support for #!/usr/local/sbcl --dynamic-space-size=10Gb,--script 12:27:37 10Gb ? 12:27:39 woh 12:27:42 ie. teach sbcl about --foo=value style command line options, and allow putting multiple options into into a single argument by separating them with commas 12:27:54 nikodemus: maybe --script,--dynamic-space-size=10Gb? 12:28:14 stassats: i'd rather make it a general mechanism than special case --script 12:28:20 i see 12:28:42 then the issue will become 255 char limit, not multiple args 12:28:47 but if it turns out too hairy i may fall back to special casing 12:29:29 sbcl --stdin-argv # we scoff at limits! 12:30:42 it's 127 characters, rather 12:30:44 on linux 12:32:44 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.60.179] has joined #sbcl 12:33:17 nikodemus: what do you mean by --stdin-argv? 12:33:40 you mean making two lines? 12:34:07 stassats: something like that, yeah 12:34:25 nothing i plan on actually implementing 12:34:58 127 characters seems like enough for everybody 12:35:39 :) 12:43:44 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 12:47:36 *stassats* tries to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/727625 and it's not that easy 12:48:02 i can't really give a concrete warning, just "locale is bogus" 12:48:16 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:48:23 bogus as an adjective, not the value 12:49:34 that's because setlocale(LC_ALL, ""); just returns NULL in case of a bogus locale 12:51:25 well, i guess it's better than nothing, but figuring out which variable is causing it would be more helpful 13:18:39 so, what about "WARNING: Setting locale failed. Check the following varaibles for correct values: LC_ALL=bogus, LC_CTYPE=(null), LANG=en_US.UTF-8"? 13:26:49 now to do something similar for windows 13:38:15 and do we need to set call setlocale(LC_ALL, ""), or will setlocale(LC_LCTYPE, "") be sufficient? 13:38:38 LC_CTYPE is affeced by less variables, less chance of failure and easier to diagnose 13:41:13 i would also suggest defaulting to a latin-1 locale if setting it fails. ascii locales can provide some monuntally confusing errors 13:41:34 is there a best-practises guide somewhere? 13:41:36 yeah, i'm thinking about that too 13:41:43 (for locale stuff) 13:41:55 don't know, i've looked up what perl does 13:42:11 wrt error messages 13:42:54 and its locale handling is quite complicated and full of ifdefs 13:43:19 i think we should do LC_ALL because otherwise libraries are fucked (i think?), but maybe we can follow it with just LC_CTYPE if it fails 13:43:37 it's the only one we ourselves use, really 13:44:05 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 13:44:26 well, i can do LC_ALL, but then printing all the variables it might affect isn't that great 13:45:08 perl does call several setlocale with several types 13:46:18 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.60.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:46:31 i guess things like "Ultrix setlocale(..., "") fails ..." can be disregarded 13:47:02 hah 13:48:34 and i don't know what to do with windows 13:48:36 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:49:59 changing locale there was a major pain last time i tried 13:50:15 (i actually bricked it) 13:54:29 afternoon 13:56:53 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 14:10:57 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.60.179] has joined #sbcl 14:11:31 stassats: do what exactly on windows? locales? 14:12:16 lichtblau: if setlocale fails (can it ever on windows?) report a meaningful error 14:12:33 nikodemus: will try to get frlock backtraces on Windows sometime this week. 14:12:37 stassats: I don't think we should consider such a thing as a global "locale" setting on Windows. It doesn't exist because it's not needed. 14:13:48 i'm not sure what you mean by that 14:13:50 Console I/O is UCS-2 already, so we're unaffectedy by the 8 bit codepage. Filenames are always Unicode already, also thanks to Anton's work. 14:14:23 We need to consider using GetCommandLineW, CommandLineToArgvW for Unicode command line arguments. 14:15:05 The cstring external format should really be specified by the programmer IMHO. 14:15:06 well, what i'm really doing is just giving meaningful error messages when someone mistypes their LANG settings 14:15:43 so, i'm not concerned about more fundamental things on windows 14:17:28 hmm. so, _set_invalid_parameter_handler maybe? 14:17:54 i have no idea what that means 14:23:21 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #sbcl 14:27:01 it's a function that can be used to decide how to handle libc-internal errors, in particular due to invalid locale settings. I don't know how or why users would possibly break locale settings on Windows in the first place, but it would allow errors to be caught if we wanted that sort of check/test/protection. 14:30:07 well, i have no idea what windows user do, i guess i'll just #ifdef out that code 14:31:47 would building sbcl with visual studio ever be feasible? 14:33:27 didn't someone submit patches in that direction and we laughed at him? 14:34:09 i don't recall that occurrence, was it because they were bad or nobody cared about visual studio? 14:36:02 ... hard to google for due to all the Visual Studio-related sourceforge spam in the email signatures ... 14:37:21 i just don't find mingw all that great 14:39:59 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.steel-bank.devel/14371 14:41:57 IIUC: even if we built our .c files using msvc (which only supports C++ and C89, but not C99) instead of gcc.exe, we would still need the GNU toolchain in order to build our .S files using gas.exe. 14:45:06 maybe clang could be used without mingw 14:49:31 obviously the answer is to write our .S files in our own assembler. *ducks* 14:50:11 what about our own C compiler? 14:52:32 well, i guess people who use windows are less anxious to build things on their own 14:52:55 and those who are no longer use windows 14:54:27 IIRC the main objections were (1) ugliness (2) it would bitrot. If it's non-horrible, and we know someone uses vs to build regularly, I would not object. 14:56:13 (and if that someone is willing to maintain the build, which can be eg. demonstrated by maintaining a vs build out of tree for a while -- i think the isn't such a moving target most of the time that it would be unfeasible) 14:56:20 but maybe i'm too optimistic 15:07:26 Thra11 [~thrall@46.208.152.134] has joined #sbcl 15:08:08 One thing we should do, I think, is to add clear instructions to our website explaining how to get set up with msys&mingw in the minimal number of steps. 15:09:14 Because it's an easy process in principle, but otherwise users will give up before they've even found the right msys installer. Especially with the well-hidden 64 bit binaries, which are kept in one of those sourceforce download areas of doom. 15:26:53 -!- hydandata [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:42:01 ok, so i got setlocale error reporting working, but i'm not sure about making latin-1 default external format 15:43:09 because after i fail LC_ALL, i then check LC_CTYPE and friends successively, so just setting LC_CTYPE to some value could end up being confusing 15:46:43 i see two options, a) add an C variable locale_set_failed, which default-external-format then checks b) move setlocale calling to lisp 15:49:56 huh, my error messages are printed twice 15:51:58 basically, we shouldn't be printing anything prior to os_init(), because that might re-exec us (IIUC) 15:54:09 that seems to be the case 15:54:49 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #sbcl 16:14:43 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.60.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:18:47 huh, that's true for sbcl --debug-environment as well 16:20:49 what really causes re-exec? 17:10:26 lichtblau: is the non-threaded sbcl gone from windows indefinitely? or is it just a phase? 17:14:53 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:15:54 re-exec is for changing personality to shed various linux security shackles 17:16:41 i don't really know how to solve --debug-environment, except for going through the args twice 17:16:55 don't worry about it 17:17:11 i'm writing a bit of code to make it easy to defer printing stuff till os_init is done 17:17:13 well, i didn't even know about its existence 17:17:35 so, i'm not really worried 17:23:58 hydandata [~user@176.74.140.3] has joined #sbcl 17:27:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 17:36:35 stassats: if you give the launchpad bug number in NEWS, then my release script lets me automatically do Fix Committed => Fix Released processing come release day 17:37:40 good to know 17:59:22 stassats: https://github.com/nikodemus/SBCL/commits/slightly-nicer-arg-parsing # probably won't get more done today 18:21:51 s/varaibles/variables/ :) 18:28:30 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:29:13 njm [~nick@64-83-215-247.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com] has joined #sbcl 18:37:31 -!- njm [~nick@64-83-215-247.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com] has left #sbcl 18:49:18 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-208-244.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:49:50 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:00:40 ah, ah, will somebody side-fix that? 19:07:20 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #sbcl 19:14:00 -!- hydandata [~user@176.74.140.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:16:26 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-178-42.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 20:00:50 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-178-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:03:27 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 20:03:45 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #sbcl 20:05:30 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Client Quit] 20:19:34 Blkt [~user@82.84.188.5] has joined #sbcl 20:59:12 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-178-42.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 21:00:20 stassats: gone indefinitely. There are too many features like with-timeout, sprof, and C-c which can be implemented easily on threaded builds, and were lacking previously. Doesn't make sense to keep not having those on #-sb-thread, neither from a maintainability nor the users' perspective. 21:20:43 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #sbcl 21:24:40 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.60.179] has joined #sbcl 21:27:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:33:23 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:41:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:47:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-206-254.vodafone.hu] has joined #sbcl 21:47:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-206-254.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 21:47:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 22:12:22 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.60.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:49:31 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-192-103-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:51:53 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-192-103-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #sbcl 23:23:42 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-192-103-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:24:37 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-192-103-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #sbcl