00:05:16 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 00:52:05 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-lruhlzqcjotznquk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:57:06 -!- kanru [~kanru@66.207.208.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:39:43 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-196-190.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #sbcl 01:41:16 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-209.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:54:31 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-jvycabwdxxenpxvn] has joined #sbcl 02:28:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.19.24] has joined #sbcl 02:28:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.19.24] has quit [Changing host] 02:28:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 02:32:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 03:07:45 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-175.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 03:10:55 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-181.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:58:02 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-jvycabwdxxenpxvn] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:29:45 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:44:32 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 05:46:28 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #sbcl 05:48:09 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:00:57 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-24.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #sbcl 06:02:52 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-196-190.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:41:46 Well, I was just amused about the messages 06:48:43 psilord1 [~psilord@c-69-180-173-249.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 06:52:12 -!- psilord [~psilord@c-69-180-173-249.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:13:37 -!- rbarraud_ 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_travis_ [~travis@c-98-244-123-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 13:44:00 psilord [~psilord@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 13:51:16 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.47.4] has joined #sbcl 14:04:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:20:07 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-167-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:07 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:57 -!- _travis_ [~travis@c-98-244-123-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:44 LiamH [~healy@122.166.44.187] has joined #sbcl 15:57:25 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-136-152.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 16:23:54 -!- LiamH [~healy@122.166.44.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:47:23 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.92.61] has quit [Quit: quitting...] 17:08:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:28:30 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:04:22 christoph_debian [~user@oteiza.siccegge.de] has joined #sbcl 20:07:47 -!- kanru [~kanru@66.207.208.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09:58 kanru [~kanru@66.207.208.98] has joined #sbcl 20:14:53 -!- psilord [~psilord@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:42:29 pkhuong: interesting pprint behavior for SBCL's backquote: http://paste.lisp.org/+2SS7 20:44:44 foom: that's a bit scary... 20:45:25 it special cases things like "list" appearing in the unquote. 20:45:49 (SB-IMPL::BACKQ-LIST (SB-IMPL::BACKQ-LIST 1)) 20:46:38 I'm not really sure why it does that. But, other than making the pprint a little odd, I think it's not actually wrong, and is actually somewhat useful. :) 20:48:18 we kind of lose on print-read roundtrips 20:50:10 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-136-152.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:31 It certainly helps out my patch to do that, because it can constant-ize the list call too, which it otherwise wouldn't be able to tell was an okay thing to do. 20:53:44 But, I'll admit that's not exactly the most sane way to cause that to happen. :) 20:54:08 I can understand backquote not guaranteeing freshness of templates, but "optimising" away consing that the user explicitly coded seems wrong. 20:54:36 It seemed a bit sketchy to me, too, but then I semi-convinced myself that it was okay. 20:54:59 really? 20:56:07 The spec describes a set of rules, consisting of calls to append, list, quote, and nconc, in how backquote is supposed to work. 20:56:30 So, the straightforward implementation would be to simply expand the way it says. 20:56:41 ok. 20:57:01 Then, it says, you can actually do whatever you want, so long as the result is EQUAL to what those rules would give you, and the side effects are the same. 20:57:53 But the "do whatever you want" holds for the code we generate to implement backquote expansion, not the stuff that's spliced in. 20:59:02 Why? The resultant list is still EQUAL. 21:00:22 because we're messing with code the user wrote long hand. 21:01:10 I certainly rely on calls to LIST giving me fresh conses that I can safely side-effect. 21:02:37 Sure, but calls to LIST that are inside of backquote are not the same as just LIST. 21:03:53 why not? 21:04:13 What's the difference between (let ((x (list ...))) `(... ,x)) and `(... ,(list ...)) ? 21:05:08 Nothing, except that the construction of x can be entirely omitted in the second. Neither one is required to return unique, unshared cons cells. 21:07:08 (construction of x could be omitted in the first as well, actually. So, really, nothing.) 21:10:07 I find that to be a pretty aggressive reading of the spec 21:11:01 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.lang.lisp/OF8q33oxdf0/55bQ4kd6wO8J 21:13:02 So, I suspect the reason why backq in SBCL behaves this way, is because it used to actually expand into calls to list and append, vs backq-*. 21:13:17 And, to make nested backquotes of constant material work out right, you need to do this. 21:14:48 (I don't know for sure if that's true or not.) 21:34:53 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host113-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:41:09 Posterdati [~tapioca@host113-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #sbcl 21:50:26 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-152.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 22:24:22 travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 22:24:25 travis__ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 22:24:31 -!- travis__ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:24:37 -!- travis_ is now known as _traivs_ 22:24:40 -!- _traivs_ is now known as _travis_ 22:32:38 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-136-152.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 22:53:53 psilord [~psilord@c-69-180-173-249.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 23:00:38 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-46-38.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #sbcl 23:02:04 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-25-73.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:04:28 -!- _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:50 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.47.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:42:11 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #sbcl 23:50:28 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75ec86.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]