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[Remote host closed the connection] 13:33:00 psilord [~psilord@mpls.sift.info] has joined #sbcl 13:34:09 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.118.227] has joined #sbcl 14:42:52 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #sbcl 14:44:11 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FC0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 14:45:52 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-98-87-25-221.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #sbcl 14:53:05 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.118.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:22 plutoid [~pluto@180.174.6.157] has joined #sbcl 15:07:59 If I have a lisp string and call a c-function that expects a zero-terminated string with it. Will SBCL first have to copy the string, or are strings stored as c-strings internally? 15:11:31 Neronus: It does the conversion under the covers for you, IIUC. 15:17:38 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #sbcl 15:20:15 if you have a base-string, I think there's no copy 15:24:17 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FC0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:41 -!- plutoid [~pluto@180.174.6.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:05:10 Neronus: You can answer your question by calling a C function that changes an octet in the base-string. If the change is visible on the Lisp side, then the same storage is being used. 16:06:39 brown`: True 16:10:56 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:32 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-192.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 16:13:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:48 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-128-113.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #sbcl 16:37:30 Kryztof: is there a reason we don't finalize classes eagerly? 16:44:36 pkhuong: can you explain to me what the "Known attributes" are for a function? Specifically what it is that affects what attributes a function gets? 16:45:15 what the function does. 16:45:31 is it up for dead code elimination (flushable)? 16:45:39 Right, but none of my own functions ever gets any "known attributes" 16:45:45 you have to defknown. 16:46:34 Ah, I see. That's what I was looking for. Thanks! 16:47:22 So basically that provides information for the compiler that explains what kinds of optimisations can be applied? 16:47:29 yes. 16:47:46 And it provides a place for optimisers, VOP definitions, etc. to register their presence 16:48:36 Do you have an example of a system-defined function that does a lot of defknown magic that I can look at when exploring this? 16:49:47 almost all the defknown forms are in src/compiler/fndb, or src/compiler/generic/vm-fndb. 16:49:54 (.lisp) 16:50:18 Thanks a lot. Now I can experiment myself. :-) 16:53:29 pkhuong: sorry for asking all these questions, but what's the impact of flushable on a function? Doesn't flushable refer to assembler instructions? 16:53:47 no. It means that the function is considered for dead code elimination. 16:54:19 you'll often see (flushable movable foldable) on reader functions, for instance. 16:54:35 Yep 16:54:52 But why aren't all functions flushable then? DCE would always be a good thing, no? 16:55:06 you can't eliminate a function that has side effects. 16:56:02 Ohh, I see. You mean dead code elimination, in the sense that the entire function can be eliminated. No that non-executed pars of the function gets removed when it's compiled? 16:56:38 Does all of these flags apply when calls to the function is compiled (as opposed to the function itself being compiled)? 16:56:46 calls to that functions are considered during DCE. 16:57:02 I believe that if it is flushable, it means that if the result value isn't used, it is dead code 16:57:05 all the flags apply to code that call the function. 16:57:44 Recently I had to fix that for prefetch intrinsics in my sse lib - they have the form of array reads, but actually are used for the side effect. 16:57:57 So they can't be flushable. 16:58:09 pkhuong: Thanks a lot, things are a lot more clear now 16:58:36 So, if I have a constant foldable function, I could safely defknown it myself (for performance...?) 16:58:52 sure. 16:59:11 Nice. One more tool in my toolchest, I guess 16:59:14 Check the other flags, though. 16:59:19 I will 16:59:32 the default is (any). As soon as you specify one flag, the default goes away. 17:00:10 Is there a list of them? 17:00:18 M-. on defknown 17:01:06 actually M-. on ir1-attributes 17:01:38 Awesome. Exactly what I wanted 17:01:45 I'll get off your back now :-) 17:04:18 Time to sleep. Thanks again. 17:13:03 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:32:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-192.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 17:43:29 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-97-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:43:38 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:46:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.63.19] has joined #sbcl 17:46:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.63.19] has quit [Changing host] 17:46:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 17:47:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:22 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@87.247.63.19] has joined #sbcl 17:47:22 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 17:47:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.63.19] has quit [Changing host] 17:47:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 17:49:26 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #sbcl 17:50:54 dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #sbcl 17:55:13 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FC0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 18:00:32 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-97-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #sbcl 18:23:34 -!- scymtym [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21a:a0ff:fe34:2d7d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:05 scymtym [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21a:a0ff:fe34:2d7d] has joined #sbcl 18:25:21 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:34:38 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-97-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:38:40 pkhuong: we used to. eager finalization has some issues; I can't remember exactly what, but one is that I seem to remember that it makes defining a tower of classes quite slow (as you effectively get refinalization of all the superclasses each time you define a subclass) 18:39:09 I think there were also metacircle bugs that were easiest to fix by deferring finalization, though these days it's possible that they're more easily fixed 18:41:29 ok. What if we did that just before releasing the world lock? 18:42:12 and say, only enable that behaviour post-bootstrap. 18:48:00 do you remember approximately when we took eager finalisation out? 18:49:46 -!- psilord [~psilord@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:57:09 before 1.0.0.12 18:57:51 after 0.9.14.11 18:58:30 (possibly. As well as explicit eager finalization, there was finalization triggered by methods specializing on things) 19:01:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:17:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.63.19] has joined #sbcl 19:17:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.63.19] has quit [Changing host] 19:17:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 19:19:08 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:06 -!- dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:26:53 aha! Juho is to blame for &more in PCL (: 19:33:17 oh, that's why you were talking of adding &more to the evaluator? 19:34:07 yes. 19:37:02 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #sbcl 20:02:06 Kryztof: thanks. 0.9.14.21, update-class (std-class.lisp). 20:02:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:03:04 ckairaba [~ckairaba@39.104.100.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #sbcl 20:04:46 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FC0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:05:22 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FC0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 20:17:40 hroptatyr [~asathor@sxemacs/devel/hroptatyr] has joined #sbcl 20:20:10 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-27.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 20:23:25 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449092.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #sbcl 20:24:41 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FC0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:43:25 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA058E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 20:49:21 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA058E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:26 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA058E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 20:57:43 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA058E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:56 -!- ckairaba [~ckairaba@39.104.100.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:00 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA058E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #sbcl 21:53:05 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.189.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:15:32 Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 22:36:23 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #sbcl 22:49:26 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:50:11 Kryztof: ... the slow part is class-has-a-forward-referenced-superclass-p 22:50:13 seriously. 23:18:28 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.120.152.162] has joined #sbcl 23:32:33 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@164-177-151-185.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:47:31 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.120.152.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]