00:06:29 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:13:12 -!- tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-75.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:14:41 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-43-129.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #sbcl 01:26:14 -!- tsuru``` is now known as tsuru` 02:14:41 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:27:14 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #sbcl 03:42:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-51-137.customers.almanet.kz] has joined #sbcl 03:42:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-51-137.customers.almanet.kz] has quit [Changing host] 03:42:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 04:45:52 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177698375.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:16:59 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-153.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #sbcl 05:18:48 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-43-129.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:43:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:43:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-51-137.customers.almanet.kz] has joined #sbcl 06:43:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-51-137.customers.almanet.kz] has quit [Changing host] 06:43:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 06:44:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 06:45:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 06:56:36 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.50.149] has joined #sbcl 07:12:50 Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #sbcl 07:13:24 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:39:49 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:00:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:04:41 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-140.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #sbcl 08:06:19 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-153.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:08:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-51-137.customers.almanet.kz] has joined #sbcl 08:08:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-51-137.customers.almanet.kz] has quit [Changing host] 08:08:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 08:10:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 08:10:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-51-137.customers.almanet.kz] has joined #sbcl 08:10:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-51-137.customers.almanet.kz] has quit [Changing host] 08:10:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 08:27:37 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #sbcl 09:00:16 good morning everyone 09:21:25 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 10:19:52 tsuru```` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-197.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #sbcl 10:21:17 -!- tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-140.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:23:29 akovalen` [~anton@95.73.220.116] has joined #sbcl 10:24:35 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.72.168.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:43 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 10:27:57 oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has joined #sbcl 10:34:53 -!- drdo`` [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:10:09 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:10:22 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #sbcl 11:11:44 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #sbcl 11:14:46 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 11:14:46 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o nikodemus 12:22:31 -!- tsuru```` is now known as tsuru` 13:27:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:50:55 arstoien [~user@c-98-229-29-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 13:51:15 -!- arstoien [~user@c-98-229-29-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #sbcl 14:30:48 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 14:30:56 G'morning all. 14:32:03 hi nyef 14:33:31 Hunh. I think I just got my hack-of-the-week to produce a working cold-core. Neat. 14:35:05 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449448.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #sbcl 14:40:15 What's this week's hack? 14:41:13 Making genesis operate independently of the host package system. 14:43:11 With that done, I can convince the compiler to emit target package names instead of XC package names. 15:28:17 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-16.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 16:27:21 do linkage table entries live forever after they referenced once? 16:30:33 It wouldn't surprise me at all, but I don't know too much about how linkage-table works. 16:33:14 akovalenko: yes 16:33:43 the foreign object they point to can change, but the entry remains in place 16:34:17 I have an idea of alternative implementation, and a proof of concept half-screen cffi hack that seems to work :) 16:38:44 ..basically, a weak hash + load-time-value. Example at http://paste.lisp.org/+2OYD -- if we redefine or fmakunbound a function, the entry eventually disappears.. 16:40:29 currently references to linkage table aren't represented as objects at all 16:40:51 they're just :foreign and :foreign-data fixups in the generated code 16:41:27 I know :) I had to fix it for win32 and then [ab]use it for "dynamic-style" linking against sbcl runtime 16:41:35 aah 16:43:18 if it doesn't stress the GC measurably, i'm not opposed to refactoring it to work like that -- as long as i don't have to do the refactoring :) 16:44:57 akovalenko: re. sbcl-devel. did i understand correctly that you have a separate branch that contains ready-to-merge stuff? or was that "for David to process stuff"? 16:46:16 nikodemus: the specific case of lfn-upstream was intended to be ready-to-merge, but I expected someone to review it, so if I have to bet my head on its correctness, let me take another look :) 16:47:59 nikodemus: for other parts, I'm ready to make some of them ready-to-merge upon requests.. (if someone says, e.g., "now we are ready for stdcall callbacks, give me them") 16:48:28 akovalenko: needing review is ok, but ready to merge in the sense of having all the t's crossed and i's dotted: commit messages, tests, logical commits, etc 16:52:15 tests are lacking (I keep them outside that repo -- will fix it). Commits are (mostly) logical, but should I "rewrite history" to hide temporal blind spots and later insights? Generally, I find such rewriting harmful, I must admit... 16:55:05 mostly yes -- of course ideally adding a note about the unobvious things and insights to the rewritten commit. it's a matter of taste, though -- but a known-broken commits are best rewritten. if it's "also handle edge case" kind of stuff, then rewriting is less crucial 16:55:54 of course ideally they would also be stuff that isn't yet in david's tree either... 17:00:03 well, then I'll try it on LFNs (as there is an outstanding branch to take care of, anyway) and maybe on spawn argument escaping (that's easy to isolate).. 17:01:47 maybe I should set up my windows partition to dual boot as a VM 17:01:58 Windows: not just for games! 17:03:06 For sbcl, wine will be okay most of the time (of course I wouldn't rely on its faithfullness for long file names, for example, but it's possible for many other things) 17:10:44 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: gogogo!] 17:10:58 -!- oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:19 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:22:48 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:27:52 Fare [~Fare@74.125.59.116] has joined #sbcl 18:31:28 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #sbcl 18:41:20 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #sbcl 18:41:20 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o nikodemus 18:58:53 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449448.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:10:26 nikodemus_ [~Nikodemus@GGGKMMCCCXXXIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #sbcl 19:13:42 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:19:06 ... Ah, the light of the blindingly obvious dawns. Most of the code I've written for the past week should be thrown out. I just need to create a parallel set of packages with munged names, and most of the existing infrastructure will Just Work. 19:19:49 that sounds like what SBCL does, with the sb!foo packagenames? 19:20:53 Yeah, but I think it needs to be done /again/ in genesis. 19:25:23 -!- nikodemus_ [~Nikodemus@GGGKMMCCCXXXIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:08 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0139eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 20:57:13 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449448.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #sbcl 21:11:50 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-16.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:34:07 -!- Fare [~Fare@74.125.59.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:48:29 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.50.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:12:05 kovolvo [~user@p4FDACFB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #sbcl 22:14:21 -!- kovolvo [~user@p4FDACFB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #sbcl 22:31:24 *akovalenko* now has prepopulated linkage table on linux, with no need for ldso-stubs :) 22:36:46 pre-populated? 22:38:05 that doesn't mean the shared library addresses are baked into the core, surely? 22:40:07 The runtime resolves all external addresses that are required by the cold core; it's done on startup, before first call into lisp is made. 22:43:37 ah, ok 22:50:32 does that eliminate the need for the sbcl.nm file? 22:51:21 Sounds like it should. 22:51:35 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0139eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:09 if so, wouldn't that allow both host-1 and host-2 to run before target-1 and target-2? 22:53:48 ... Unfortunately not. 22:53:56 Nice try, though. 22:54:14 oh well 22:54:18 (You forgot about stuff-grovelled-from-headers, which occurs late in host-1.) 22:54:35 yep, but that's the only obstacle 22:54:55 ... Is there anything in stuff-grovelled that we can't pull at make-config time? 22:55:17 'cause if there isn't, we can collapse host-1 and host-2 into a single phase. 22:58:28 grovel-headers.c includes genesis/config.h and checks for LISP_FEATUREs.. 22:59:22 ... That's it? 23:00:55 *nyef* sighs. 23:01:01 And we can't even fix that up using shell wizardry. 23:01:10 We need a host lisp to build that. 23:01:27 (Simply because it's based on l-t-f + c-t-f.) 23:03:32 heh, we're becoming okay with address randomization (for sbcl itself).. 23:04:10 I like that idea, because openbsd is going to start randomizing executable addresses at some point :) 23:04:46 ... Hey, did relocatable cores ever go in? 23:06:14 that would be nice too, but I don't think so 23:06:55 I think those basically cover everything but static space. 23:06:55 relocatable cores are not easy yet. And while we have non-relocatable stuff in low 4G, they seem to be not that useful, too. 23:08:06 What do we have that's truly non-relocatable? 23:08:36 static symbols, for instance (for some values of "truly") 23:09:08 We can make the compiler put them in the constant vector, fairly easily. 23:13:41 I think the big things were runtime references to static symbols, and a couple of the trampolines in arch-assem.S. 23:46:32 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-44-78.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #sbcl 23:48:05 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-197.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]