00:28:15 -!- rpg [~rpg@209.117.47.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:38:05 mm.. so, raw slots in structures: I think I have a nice way to make them work with constant offsets from the beginning of instance 00:39:04 now I just wonder if we should try to be smart wrt slot ordering, or provide a C-style guarantee. 00:50:51 it would be even nicer if it were possible to map a structure onto a C struct 00:52:19 with all slot types declared and something like :alignment :c 00:58:36 fe[nl]ix: right. that's what I meant with "C-style guarantee" 00:59:19 getting the rules right would be a lot of work, but the infrastructure would be there. 00:59:59 oh, I thought you were only referring to the order, but not padding 01:00:11 we already mostly get padding right. 01:00:23 (natural alignment, except for complexes) 01:16:41 oh neat, looks like openbsd might get futexes 01:17:19 when, where ? 01:18:30 dunno when/if they'll be committed, but someone is interested in them to update the linux compat code 01:19:06 so it may be possible that they might be available for native code, and be used in the new threading library 01:23:28 was that on some mailing list ? 01:24:36 tech@openbsd.org 01:24:56 there were some diffs posted today 03:28:36 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:34:42 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #sbcl 04:04:43 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:24:41 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #sbcl 04:39:23 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:57:31 gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has joined #sbcl 04:58:04 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #sbcl 05:04:19 -!- gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:42:39 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-186-130.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 06:45:08 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-153.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:51:12 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #sbcl 08:06:06 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #sbcl 10:14:51 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 10:50:47 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-186-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:54:11 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-186-130.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 11:31:00 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #sbcl 11:31:36 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 13:00:49 -!- christoph_debian [~user@oteiza.siccegge.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:14 christoph_debian [~user@oteiza.siccegge.de] has joined #sbcl 14:26:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-186-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:14:10 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 15:21:15 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:02 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-136-101.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 17:15:45 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-186-130.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 17:35:40 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-136-101.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:41:11 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-186-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:08:03 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-136-101.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 18:17:02 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-136-101.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:02:51 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-136-101.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 19:22:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 19:37:21 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-200-19.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:38:47 cmm [~cmm@109.65.203.94] has joined #sbcl 19:43:15 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.203.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:44:08 cmm [~cmm@109.65.203.94] has joined #sbcl 19:59:06 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-252.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 20:11:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:49 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-136-101.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:19:52 volton [~volton@host72-2.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #sbcl 21:20:27 Hi, why does (setf p '(John Q Oublic)) work in clisp and clozure but not in sbcl? 21:21:21 volton: It surely works in sbcl, too. 21:21:36 volton: But probably gives a warning about p being an undefined variable. 21:22:08 oh it's a WARNING o_O I should have noticed that 21:22:19 volton: The CL standard does not specify the behaviour of setfing an undefined variable in the global context. 21:22:44 antoszka: how could I get rid of that warning? 21:23:00 volton: define the variable p first 21:23:12 volton: defparameter, defvar or defcontstant 21:23:17 volton: depending on your needs. 21:24:11 antoszka: thank you very much 21:24:14 np 21:25:00 antoszka: and thank you for being so nice, makes me a lot more confident that trying sbcl is a good idea :-) 21:25:18 You might want to look up the three (or esp. the first two) in the HyperSpec, it explains some subtleties. 21:26:43 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpar.htm#defvar 21:27:09 antoszka: great, thx 21:29:46 Also a lisp book which explains the difference between lexical and dynamic scoping may be a good idea. 21:30:30 Yeah, if you just do a bare setf in top-level you don't know whether you end up with a lexical (than in what context) or a special variable. 21:30:39 Hence the warning. 21:31:05 s/than/and then/ 21:33:46 I am just getting started with paradigms of artificial intelligence by peter norvig 21:34:20 I just started with that too (and a few others in parallel). 21:34:35 You might find PCL to be a better beginner text. 21:34:43 minion: pcl 21:34:43 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 21:34:54 minion: gentle introduction 21:34:54 does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 21:35:01 Huh, doesn't know that one. 21:35:04 minion: gentle 21:35:04 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 21:35:21 You have to know how to ask him :) 21:35:25 : 21:35:34 I am looking for a book with interesting example projects 21:35:41 That would be PCL. 21:35:43 PLC would be the one. 21:35:54 s/PLC/PCL/ 21:36:42 But Norvig has some really beautiful crystalline code right from the start (or so it seems with my limited knowledge). 21:36:50 PCL looks really good as well 21:37:54 antoszka: so is this a good thing or a bad thing? ;-) 21:39:01 Good. 21:41:14 Norvig has really interesting examples in his book, they might be to hard for a beginner tho 21:49:57 okay, thank you for your help 21:50:04 good night! 21:55:43 -!- volton [~volton@host72-2.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: volton] 22:23:46 *|3b|* somehow doesn't think DEFCONSTANT would be the best way to make something you can SETF 22:25:42 Yeah, that was a certain mental shortcut. 22:41:18 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-236-45.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:44:11 ASau [~user@95-26-236-45.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #sbcl 22:54:56 pkhuong pasted "Sane raw struct slots ;)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123176 22:55:56 Only the GC, layout computation and the VOPs are correct. There's only all the other stuff like equalp to fix ;)