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http://linkinus.com] 11:44:53 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 11:50:25 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-203.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 12:04:54 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:08:51 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 13:02:41 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:16:55 luis` [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #sbcl 13:18:24 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:50:58 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:07 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07:30 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #sbcl 15:15:58 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-124.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 15:17:56 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-203.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:28:24 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-87-47-213.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #sbcl 15:33:27 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-124.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:35:36 wow, nice to see some windows nt love thrown sbcl's way 15:35:48 for those who use windows anyway, I guess 15:36:55 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-145-233.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #sbcl 15:37:03 Hello all. 15:37:11 hello nyef 15:37:50 I just got three lines of "sh: /bin/mail: No such file or directory" when running my SBCL commit script, which is quite badly new. Is this likely to break anything? 15:37:54 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-124.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 15:39:35 lisppaste2 [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #sbcl 15:40:11 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #sbcl 15:40:31 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #sbcl 15:41:13 (the "no such file" thing is new, not the commit script.) 15:43:19 -!- woudshoo` [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:53:13 at a guess, it's the "sourceforge mail is borken" 15:54:19 So, nothing I need to worry about? 15:54:21 I think they put back "sendmail" 15:54:31 you could check; then mail notifications would actually work.. 15:54:44 More the point, nothing that's wrong with my /local/ configuration? 16:10:53 nyef: yeah, I got that tail. I think nikodemus said he was doing the commit emails by hand 16:11:45 nyef, Krystof: do you guys have any problems with putting :little-endian (or :big-endian as appropriate) on SBCL's features? luis sent me a patch which does that. 16:12:03 s/tail/too/ 16:12:28 only if you take over clx maintenance 16:12:43 no, let me rephrase 16:12:52 only if it means that you stop complaining about clx maintenance 16:13:25 i'll stop complaining once my compiler does 16:13:59 isn't putting :little-endian onto sbcl's features exactly the wrong way to stop the compiler complaining? 16:14:23 as it, it will make compiling clx complain all the time, rather than just when you also have "trivial features" loaded 16:17:58 My position as far as CLX goes is that it's fine the way it is, and is not to be changed unless someone provides a feature test that reliably detects support for new-style EVAL-WHEN. 16:18:43 "new-style EVAL-WHEN"? 16:19:06 Well, newer than what's breaking in CLX. 16:19:23 I'm not familiar with CLX. 16:19:31 I think luis' strategy is to make sure that clx breaks for all SBCL users, not just the few of us who are unfortunate enough to have loaded trivial-features before loading cl 16:19:32 x 16:19:57 sounds like a reasonable strategy. :) 16:20:10 Mmm. And my strategy is to avoid tinkering with anything in CLX that deals with dependencies that I can't test, such as any non-SBCL lisp system. 16:20:36 Also note that putting :little-endian onto *FEATURES* is less than correct for, say, PPC. 16:20:46 how's that? 16:20:57 Most-to-all PPC systems are big-endian. 16:21:12 ok, then, yes I do object 16:21:12 Well, presumably you'd put :big-endian if the SBCL is compiled in big-endian... 16:21:13 I think it puts the output of determian-endianness.c onto features 16:21:39 and the suggestion I gave you about a year ago remains: fix clx yourself 16:21:45 Nobody would propose to put :little-endian if it's actually :big-endian, I'd assume. 16:22:54 luis' and your plan would only serve to hurt whatever users are left, which sounds profoundly antisocial 16:22:59 Krystof: I've fixed my copy of clx many times, but it's annoying doing it for every box/quicklisp release 16:23:07 foom: I don't know, it sounds like /exactly/ the sort of thing I'd find a use for. 16:23:21 slyrus: so take over maintenance and make releases 16:23:30 It seems funny that putting the endianness in *features* is somehow linked to CLX. 16:23:41 slyrus: Or, hell, SEND A PATCH TO CLX-DEVEL. 16:23:57 Preferably one which won't break pre-ANSI systems. 16:24:15 colour me unimpressed 16:24:52 foom: CLX does wire encoding for X, and needs to know the host endianness for a few things. 16:25:55 CLX also does its own endianness-detection on SBCL, the problem is that :little-endian overrides it, and does so in a way that causes a pre-ANSI-lisp codepath to be used. 16:35:18 there are pre-ANSI-lisps? 16:37:21 Don't all the other lisps already put :little-endian :big-endian? CLX isn't broken on them? 16:37:42 ah, they don't complain about old-sk00l eval when conditions 16:37:44 I imagine 16:37:53 #+(or lispm vax little-endian Minima) is the offending coditional 16:38:04 conditional that triggers the old-sk00l eval-when conditions 16:38:26 a simple fix is to change that to #+(or lispm vax (and (not sbcl) little-endian) Minima) 16:38:34 wait, you're complaining about a STYLE-WARNING? 16:38:41 sheesh 16:38:42 well, that's the thing... 16:38:46 ASDF stops the compilation 16:39:26 so it's treated as an error somewhere along the chain 16:40:36 inside clx.asd 16:41:03 and also, yes, they don't complain about the deprecated eval-when conditions 16:41:34 Okay, so eliminate SBCL from that feature test? 16:41:59 nyef: like so: #+(or lispm vax (and (not sbcl) little-endian) Minima) 16:42:07 yes, that fixes the problem for me 16:42:27 (Ugh. I actually have a couple other things that I should push, but they were on my G5 which died a week ago, and I have no other hardware that will run the disk.) 16:49:31 nyef: will a linux machine not read the disk? wikipedia suggests that as long as it's not larger than 2TB it might be possible 16:49:50 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:50:18 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #sbcl 16:50:18 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 16:51:20 Krystof: how's the new startup? 16:55:10 simultaneously rewarding and unrewarding :-) 16:55:19 also not so new any more 16:57:26 as one gets older, time goes by faster, but things stay new longer, at least that's the way it seems to me 17:00:31 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 17:01:11 tsuru: It's a linux disk, so yes, a linux machine will read the disk. But I can't spin up a desktop-type SATA disk unless I have a working desktop machine with a SATA controller... and my only one died last week. 17:02:54 I bought a little usb -> IDE/laptop-ide/sata dongles. It's awesome, everyone should have one. 17:04:02 Mmm. I have a laptop-class external SATA frame, but it declined to spin the disk up. 17:04:09 foom: got a link ? 17:04:11 I agree... has saved my sanity and bacon more than once 17:05:09 probably i should get one too, instead of an another computer with NFS to access IDE drives 17:05:39 http://www.amazon.com/Vantec-CB-ISATAU2-Supports-2-5-Inch-5-25-Inch/dp/B000J01I1G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1299863106&sr=8-3 17:06:05 ... At this point, I'd be happy if I could still use the monitor off my G5 somewhere else. 17:06:39 foom: how does that cope with power requirements? 17:06:45 it has a power adapter 17:07:00 oh, nice 17:07:07 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-vgxsixrlwbcxyhdm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:38 I'm not sure if that's the exact one I got, it looks like it's a generic thing, there's a bunch of different companies all selling the same product 17:08:13 just like that cartridge-style HDD dock I got a while ago. 17:08:23 (which I really don't recommend. save your HDDs) 17:08:34 why, what'd it do to it? 17:09:01 they run at an angle. the drive I had in there for a few months started sounding bad 17:09:19 and a data recovery engineer friend of mine said that was to be expected (: 17:09:23 I've used two or three and they've all worked great... the only issue i had was one of them didn't have their power cable shaped right so it allowed me to insert it upside down into a CDR... fried it. 17:09:26 so I'm not using that anymore 17:53:00 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1e61.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #sbcl 18:00:02 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-13-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:02:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #sbcl 18:04:40 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-13-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #sbcl 18:17:45 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:21 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:31:24 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #sbcl 18:56:24 STYLE-WARNING: Couldn't grovel for EAI_ADDRFAMILY (unknown to the C compiler). 18:56:27 is that normal? 18:57:44 ... It might be? 18:57:59 Yeah, mine says that too. 18:58:41 Umm... There's also one for "Generic function CLOSE clobbers an earlier FTYPE proclamation"? 18:59:30 ok, that's not related to my problem, i guess i have clock disparities which causes drives asdf mad 19:00:24 (it was frantically printing "Couldn't grovel for EAI_ADDRFAMILY (unknown to the C compiler)." and "WARNING: SB-BSD-SOCKETS also exports the following symbols:" when loading some system) 19:01:01 an angle? the one I have runs it vertically 19:01:21 *stassats* rebuilds sbcl, now that it only takes less than 3.5 minutes 19:01:22 lots of systems have drives vertically mounted; I don't think that's normally a problem 19:01:52 foom: yeah, mine was at about 80 19:02:07 foom: I think they don't mind being at a true right angle 19:02:14 ah 19:02:33 I guess don't buy that model. :) 19:02:52 yeah ((: 19:02:55 won't, anymore (: 19:03:01 or place a book under one end 19:03:07 or at least, don't use it for long periods of time 19:06:16 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #sbcl 19:49:12 rmarynch [~roman@88.135.194.233] has joined #sbcl 19:49:26 Hello All 19:49:32 Hello rmarynch. 20:00:14 nyef: I have recently read your ARM port story again. Very interesting stuff. Do you plan any further progress on that port? 20:12:15 rmarynch: Every so often I think about doing some more with it, but it hasn't been any kind of a priority for me recently. 20:18:02 it may happen that my current CL job contract ends in a month or so, and I have started to think about possible CL activities which are not 'a job'. Another CL job is a problem in Ukraine, but I still want to use the language 20:19:31 create your own job! 20:22:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 20:23:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:20 in case I want to keep the domain (compilers and expert systems), it is a bit hard. But anyway, it is not a today's question. At this time, I just collect interesting open-source activities to have a fun in the future with the most interesting of them :) 20:25:36 and why should be limited to Ukraine? 20:25:54 *stassats* telecommutes 20:28:09 stassats: I like to be in a team. It is very exciting to work with smart CL developers, far better than to work alone 20:40:42 *slyrus* has been working alone too much lately 20:42:18 there's #lisp, there's #sbcl, both full of bright lisp hackers 20:45:37 #quicklisp, #abcl 20:45:47 not sure if #lispcafe or #lispgames still have a following 20:48:16 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:05:08 Last activity in #lispgames was... an hour and twenty minutes ago, IIUC. 21:13:18 online communities are great, but team is a bit more of that - it is also friendship, project knowledge sharing and design, fun etc. Well, guys, you should know that :) 21:14:47 yeah 21:14:59 I mostly telecommute, and there are days when it's fairly isolating 21:20:28 I find that co-working spaces help a lot 21:20:44 anything where you can look up from the screen and see another human, maybe chat a little, vent (: 21:22:48 kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #sbcl 21:22:58 Mmm. Pure telecommuting kindof sucks. 21:23:14 -!- kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:24:08 I don't like working alone at home very much 21:24:19 or at least I have grown to dislike it (: 21:24:41 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:03 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #sbcl 21:31:05 -!- rmarynch [~roman@88.135.194.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:39:54 it's nice to work at home for a change though :) 21:40:18 it has its compensations 21:40:36 I think I would enjoy it more if we were at the stage where it would be easy come 6pm to say "OK, that's it for the day" 21:40:46 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:10:20 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1e61.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:50 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:22:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:42:19 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 22:58:55 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 23:25:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 23:27:39 -!- gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:28:12 gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #sbcl