00:07:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #sbcl 00:07:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 00:07:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #sbcl 00:14:38 Jini1 [~pidgin@212.106.60.103] has joined #sbcl 00:15:54 -!- Jini [~pidgin@212.106.34.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:14:00 -!- Jini1 [~pidgin@212.106.60.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:41 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 01:40:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:07:58 romaeno [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #sbcl 16:20:54 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #sbcl 16:20:54 16:20:54 -!- names: ccl-logbot redline6561 pers deepfire hargettp stassats @nikodemus attila_lendvai mega1 gnooth pkhuong cmm slyrus romaeno Quadrescence ASau tsuru scymtym slyrus_ jiacobucci antifuchs trigen fe[nl]ix jsnell derrotebaron luis foom |3b| christoph gonzojive lnostdal joshe 16:25:51 stassats: In C it's normal to check for pointers being NULL. 16:26:17 so I think passing null pointers for strings is useful. 16:30:12 indeed, it's useful in some situations 16:32:05 *stassats* accepts the fact that C sucks 16:32:31 I disagree, but that's that. 16:32:48 C is an incompetence amplifier, but so is CL. 16:33:57 Is there a competence amplifier that's not also an incompetence amplifier? 16:34:40 I think they tend to just be considered Good Things. 16:35:09 i find the best way to look competent is to remain silent 16:35:44 no programming language is a universal Good Thing as far as I'm informed 16:37:18 surely Reason counts as one? :P 16:37:24 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-118.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 16:37:55 so, would it be possible for alien to recognize (and (not null) c-string) type? 16:38:40 alien no, but mak (defun posix-getent (string) (alien-funcall (extern-alien ... etc 16:38:47 make, even. 16:39:42 it would be more nice, because it's not the only place where NULL isn't wanted and it's not limited to c-strings 16:42:10 maybe add (c-string :not-null t)? 16:43:08 looking at how external-formats are handled with c-strings should show the way 16:45:23 (sb-posix:readdir nil) => memory fault, doesn't use a c-string 16:52:01 i think alien may need a way to annotate pointer types as "no nils or (int-sap 0)'s please" 16:52:39 like (and (not null) (* type)) ? 16:53:05 (sb-alien:non-null type), maybe. 16:53:58 I think the above fits better in alien's type system. 17:03:04 tcr1 [~tcr@86.Red-83-33-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #sbcl 17:11:24 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #sbcl 17:12:11 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:50 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:35:47 foom: well some gcc maintainers think its a good idea to change linker defaults 17:36:08 e.g. ubuntu and debian huys .. I'm not happy with it but will have to deal with it 17:46:17 -!- romaeno [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:55:00 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-118.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:12:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-118.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 18:15:34 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-39-233-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:19:25 -!- tsuru` is now known as tsuru 18:51:40 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #sbcl 18:51:40 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 18:51:40 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #sbcl 19:12:58 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-118.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:54 christoph: okay, but sbcl compiles fine right now with all the different defaults. 19:14:08 christoph: and, if at some point it stops, that should be fixed in sbcl, not in distro packaging 19:41:50 rmarynch [~rmarynch@88.135.194.233] has joined #sbcl 19:44:13 How to build SBCL with the maximum debug info? Is there some good old script for that? 20:00:19 -!- scymtym [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21a:a0ff:fe34:2d7d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:37 scymtym [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21a:a0ff:fe34:2d7d] has joined #sbcl 20:16:26 It is rather easy to ask some packagers what they do. 20:17:16 If you want to add some obscure compiler or flags, please, don't. 20:17:30 compiler or linker* 20:18:06 ASau: ambiguous antecedent 20:18:08 rmarynch: depends on what you want to debug. usually adding the :ldb feature to customize-target-features.lisp-expr should be enough to debug the harshest of crashes 20:18:18 "anything but the harshest of" 20:19:17 foom: in plain words, don't add "--no-as-needed" or any other obscure bugs. 20:19:52 ASau: Yes but *who* are you telling not to add obscure bugs? :) 20:20:02 I'm one of those packagers. 20:20:12 antifuchs: I want to have a system build with "debug 3". Is that the same as with the :ldb feature? 20:20:21 You'll just make us to patch these flags away. 20:20:23 rmarynch: ooh, that may not work out too well 20:20:29 I'm not sure if that's supported. 20:20:34 ASau: I don't know who "you" you're talking about 20:20:38 ASau: sbcl upstream? packagers? 20:20:42 packagers. 20:21:04 We, packagers, you, upstream. 20:21:05 rmarynch: :sb-xref-for-internals gives you M-? for sbcl stuff 20:22:05 antifuchs: I am surprised :) Why can't we have a 'normal' debug 3 build? Some bugs? 20:22:06 Yes, I'm totally for not adding obscure bugs. SBCL should obviously compile out of the box on popular OSes. If it doesn't, that's a bug in sbcl and needs to be fixed in sbcl, not in pacakging. Hooray. 20:22:27 It depends. 20:22:43 Some systems provide broken compilers, linkers or some other build tools. 20:22:49 rmarynch: code depending on tail call optimization or certain deftransforms 20:23:08 and if those are popular supported platforms, people will want to run sbcl on them, so sbcl should run on them. 20:23:09 Still it isn't good idea to make the life worse. 20:23:13 rmarynch: like I said, I'm not sure if it's supported at all - but I would guess it might add recursive debugging invocations to some code paths, like TRACEing internal functions. 20:23:19 rmarynch: for example, it might be that sbcl does not inline code, so the (defun car (x) (car x)) might be compiled into an infinite loop 20:23:35 (especially trace-ing the printer like I sometimes like to do (-:) 20:23:50 luckily, there's no bug, sbcl works fine. 20:23:56 so, great. :) 20:25:16 tcr1: Should we consider this to be a bug? Anyway, this is very interesting - that we can't debug as much as debug 3 allows us normally 20:26:17 rmarynch: no, I don't think you get to declare it a bug if it's necessary for the whole bootstrap process to work (: 20:26:31 more of an environmental precondition (-: 20:27:32 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@86.Red-83-33-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:29:23 antifuchs: I agree :) Another basic question: how to load SBCL sources into SLIME? I have never used SLIME for SBCL development. Are there any differences with the ordinary CL apps? 20:30:03 rmarynch: there's a reader thingy for SB!FOO and #!+ 20:30:33 pkhuong: cold/chill.lisp stuff? 20:31:42 pkhuong: oh, it was the difference. I misunderstood your reply 20:35:28 you don't have to do anything special 20:36:05 except maybe enabling slime-sbcl-exts contrib, which adds some niceties 20:37:26 Well, I have started Emacs and loaded SLIME, but I cannot compile/load src/cold/chill.lisp. It says "*SHEBANG-FEATURES*" not found in the SB-COLD package" and fails 20:38:05 that's because bootstrapping can't be done from the middle 20:39:11 oh, sorry, chill is designed for somewhat like this 20:39:16 rmarynch: don't compile it 20:39:26 just load 20:39:45 stassats: thanks for the help, I will try 20:45:49 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #sbcl 20:46:38 stassats: well, it works, including the debugger. Nice! 20:50:48 -!- rmarynch [~rmarynch@88.135.194.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:00:34 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #sbcl 21:00:34 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 21:07:49 tcr1 [~tcr@86.Red-83-33-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #sbcl 21:13:02 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #sbcl 21:13:13 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #sbcl 21:18:45 slyrus [~chatzilla@dsl081-060-042.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #sbcl 21:22:17 -!- pers [~user@187.sub-75-198-216.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:24:05 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32:44 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-118.netcologne.de] has joined #sbcl 21:45:20 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:21:29 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 22:28:44 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-118.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:37:01 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #sbcl 23:00:31 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@86.Red-83-33-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:21:41 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-178-117.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #sbcl 23:29:08 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-178-117.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:31:49 -!- scymtym [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21a:a0ff:fe34:2d7d] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:32:23 scymtym [~user@2001:638:504:2093:21a:a0ff:fe34:2d7d] has joined #sbcl 23:34:16 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #sbcl