2017-01-01T00:00:27Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-01T00:02:44Z zeroish quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-01T00:03:17Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T00:07:11Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-01T00:12:33Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-01T00:13:14Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T00:16:58Z robotoad quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-01T00:20:07Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-01T00:21:08Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-01T00:22:40Z phoe: (happy-year-p (new-year)) ; => T
2017-01-01T00:26:52Z robotoad quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-01T00:29:36Z White_Flame: (ql:quickload :local-time)
2017-01-01T00:29:45Z White_Flame: (new-year-p) ; => NIL
2017-01-01T00:30:13Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-01T00:33:09Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T00:34:26Z NeverDie_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T00:35:04Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T00:35:32Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-01T00:36:40Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T00:38:44Z NeverDie_ is now known as Neverdie
2017-01-01T00:38:57Z robotoad quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T00:42:02Z wooby quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T00:43:24Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-01T00:43:35Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T00:43:46Z alandipert joined #lisp
2017-01-01T00:44:20Z prole quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T00:47:29Z xaotuk quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T00:48:01Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T00:48:27Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-01T00:48:53Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-01T00:49:26Z edgar-rft: now that christmas is over, we're again in pre-christmas time!
2017-01-01T00:51:59Z Bike: the least magical time of the year
2017-01-01T00:53:07Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T00:53:56Z robotoad quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-01T00:54:32Z edgar-rft: not when you're a magician!
2017-01-01T00:57:16Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-01T00:59:15Z jsyoo5b joined #lisp
2017-01-01T01:02:40Z jsyoo5b quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T01:04:55Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-01T01:06:37Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T01:12:32Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T01:18:49Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-01T01:23:07Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-01T01:31:37Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-01T01:32:04Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-01T01:32:58Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T01:34:49Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T01:35:09Z kevin1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T01:35:53Z lonjil_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T01:36:06Z Guest85457 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T01:36:16Z lonjil_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T01:40:31Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T01:44:04Z fourier joined #lisp
2017-01-01T01:47:57Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-01T01:48:41Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T01:52:21Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T01:54:54Z QualityAddict joined #lisp
2017-01-01T01:56:25Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-01T02:01:13Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T02:07:54Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T02:12:20Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T02:19:30Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-01T02:19:48Z dpg quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T02:21:12Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T02:21:45Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-01T02:23:19Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-01T02:26:36Z pseudonymous: jmarciano: If I understood you right then http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-a-simple-database.html shows you how you might write out a lisp data-structure and read it back in.
2017-01-01T02:32:16Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T02:38:04Z aeth: Is the only difference between (let ((foo (lambda (...) ...))) ...) and (flet ((foo (...) ...)) ...) that the lambda one has to be called with (funcall foo ...) instead of (foo ...) or (funcall #'foo ...) or is there more of a difference?
2017-01-01T02:38:28Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T02:40:09Z aeth: It looks like the easiest way to transpile a Lisp-1 to CL would be to just turn (foo ...) into (funcall foo ...) during the transpilation and use lambdas (perhaps with hidden parameters) as the functions and for the environment.
2017-01-01T02:46:21Z lexicall joined #lisp
2017-01-01T02:47:28Z peterbig quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-01T02:51:07Z lexicall quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-01T02:51:59Z peterbig joined #lisp
2017-01-01T02:52:18Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T02:52:43Z axion: yes, different namespaces. consider this as well...
2017-01-01T02:53:07Z axion: try this in your repl: https://gist.github.com/mfiano/6411c8ff2d758195918befbd0a1bb0cd
2017-01-01T02:53:23Z axion: as you can see, different results whether funcall'ing a symbol or function designator
2017-01-01T02:56:53Z aeth: hmm, then afaik the only problem with using CL's environment would be handling the global environment
2017-01-01T02:57:40Z aeth: If I create a new top-level variable or function, it would need to be accessed if there is no locally-scoped thing of the same name
2017-01-01T02:58:01Z aeth: e.g. in a REPL
2017-01-01T02:59:08Z axion: the important bit is symboils are more than just tokens
2017-01-01T02:59:15Z axion: but have property lists, etc
2017-01-01T02:59:15Z _death: flet also sets up a block
2017-01-01T03:00:23Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-01T03:05:01Z _death: but I don't think that'll work for such transformation (avoid nonsense term "transpile")
2017-01-01T03:05:02Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-01T03:06:14Z aeth: _death: The thing is, the actual compilation comes when the CL compiles the generated code.
2017-01-01T03:06:45Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-01T03:07:02Z aeth: This would just generate funny looking CL with a foo- prefix on every symbol so there's no collision with CL functions
2017-01-01T03:08:25Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T03:12:05Z Tex_Nick quit (Quit: In Linux, We Trust)
2017-01-01T03:12:48Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T03:17:01Z aeth: Actually, not even that is necessary... It could just not use CL.
2017-01-01T03:17:04Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-01T03:20:36Z aeth: (A Lisp-1 faked the way I said would avoid *almost* all issues even without prefixes or packages, but there would still be issues if e.g. someone tried to set most-positive-fixnum for some reason)
2017-01-01T03:20:37Z ryanwatkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T03:21:40Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-01T03:21:44Z _death: ((constantly t))
2017-01-01T03:21:58Z aeth: Yes, but most-positive-fixnum isn't supposed to exist. :-)
2017-01-01T03:26:09Z andrei_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T03:28:47Z ragepandemic quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T03:32:15Z aeth: cl:* isn't supposed to exist, either, but there are probably ways around that, like interpreting cl:* as |CL:*|
2017-01-01T03:32:17Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T03:38:43Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-01T03:39:21Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-01T03:39:29Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T03:42:28Z adlai: forget that, try most-positive bignum
2017-01-01T03:52:31Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T03:54:31Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-01T03:55:38Z deank quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-01T03:56:13Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-01T03:59:33Z peterbig: System "map-set" not found
2017-01-01T03:59:35Z peterbig:    [Condition of type QUICKLISP-CLIENT:SYSTEM-NOT-FOUND]
2017-01-01T03:59:49Z lonjil_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T04:00:15Z peterbig: where can I find it
2017-01-01T04:00:23Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T04:00:46Z peterbig: I use sbcl slime emacs in ubuntu
2017-01-01T04:02:53Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T04:07:07Z andrei_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T04:08:04Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T04:09:37Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T04:10:56Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-01T04:12:34Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T04:16:05Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-01T04:23:32Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-01T04:31:53Z adlai: peterbig: yknow this is not #quicklisp-support
2017-01-01T04:32:03Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T04:32:26Z peterbig: ok thank you
2017-01-01T04:33:02Z adlai: you are very 'welcome
2017-01-01T04:38:32Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-01T04:44:56Z dpg quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T04:47:01Z Bike: it kind of is quicklisp support
2017-01-01T04:50:48Z adlai: yech, napflu jibborim
2017-01-01T04:52:22Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T04:55:07Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-01T05:03:09Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-01T05:04:38Z lexicall joined #lisp
2017-01-01T05:05:14Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-01T05:07:35Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T05:08:14Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T05:12:01Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T05:12:49Z ahungry`` joined #lisp
2017-01-01T05:12:59Z fe[nl]ix quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2017-01-01T05:12:59Z beach quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2017-01-01T05:12:59Z ahungry` quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2017-01-01T05:13:05Z beach joined #lisp
2017-01-01T05:14:11Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp
2017-01-01T05:20:37Z teggi joined #lisp
2017-01-01T05:24:03Z lexicall quit (Quit: Ah, my macbook is gonna sleep!)
2017-01-01T05:24:44Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T05:26:00Z Neverdie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T05:28:22Z MetaHertz joined #lisp
2017-01-01T05:30:51Z beach: Happy New Year everyone!
2017-01-01T05:32:08Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T05:38:12Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-01T05:43:59Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-01T05:45:16Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-01T05:45:25Z fourier joined #lisp
2017-01-01T05:45:38Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T05:45:58Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-01T05:47:42Z glamas joined #lisp
2017-01-01T05:50:14Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T05:51:28Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T05:55:47Z glamas quit (Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com)
2017-01-01T06:00:32Z heurist`_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T06:01:33Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-01T06:04:46Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-01T06:06:37Z MetaHertz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-01T06:08:01Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-01T06:11:26Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T06:22:56Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T06:31:19Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T06:32:32Z lnostdal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T06:32:55Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2017-01-01T06:39:23Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T06:51:48Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T06:55:17Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-01T06:56:17Z kushal joined #lisp
2017-01-01T06:56:40Z kushal is now known as Guest27433
2017-01-01T06:59:00Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T06:59:02Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:09:25Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T07:09:51Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:11:44Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:20:52Z kevin1999 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T07:21:31Z kevin1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:22:57Z farzad joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:25:34Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T07:25:44Z farzad` joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:27:35Z farzad quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T07:28:34Z farzad` quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-01T07:31:51Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:33:01Z jmarciano quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T07:35:39Z kammd joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:36:48Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:38:25Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T07:38:34Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:39:24Z mrcom joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:40:44Z hydan joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:41:26Z kammd: Hey guys which common lisp implementation supports AIX and HPUX along with linux/windows. I thought sbcl did but the downloads page doesn't mention AIX/HPUX.
2017-01-01T07:43:52Z hydan: kammd: I don't know if any have direct support but you could probably get away with ECL, as it can compile to C
2017-01-01T07:44:08Z Zhivago: AIX and PHUX are both approximately posix, so sbcl will probably just work.
2017-01-01T07:44:37Z Zhivago: You may just need to build from source.
2017-01-01T07:45:21Z H4ns: Zhivago: does sbcl have backends for power and hppa that "just work"?
2017-01-01T07:46:02Z Zhivago: Well, that's another question.
2017-01-01T07:46:05Z kammd: Zhivago: hmm yeah  true, I will give it a go. I just wanted to see if any implementation suports it out of the box.
2017-01-01T07:46:22Z H4ns: Zhivago: i think that was the question.
2017-01-01T07:46:38Z Zhivago: Given that AIX runs on x86, I don't think it was.
2017-01-01T07:47:34Z H4ns: kammd: if you're looking for a common lisp that runs on aix on power/powerpc or on hpux on hppa, i think it is not just a matter of compiling.
2017-01-01T07:47:56Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:48:26Z ak51 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-01T07:48:53Z H4ns: kammd: clisp seems to actually have supported both.  lispworks is (or at least was) available for aix.
2017-01-01T07:49:11Z kammd: H4ns: Yeah I am looking for common lisp for power4 and hppa.
2017-01-01T07:49:26Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:50:59Z svetlyak_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:50:59Z svetlyak_ is now known as svetlyak40wt_
2017-01-01T07:51:00Z svetlyak40wt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T07:51:00Z fying1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:53:37Z kevin1999 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T07:54:24Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-01T07:54:26Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:55:57Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:57:00Z gg joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:57:23Z gg is now known as Guest82927
2017-01-01T07:58:26Z kammd: Hmm found a commit for ECL https://gitlab.com/embeddable-common-lisp/ecl/merge_requests/18 which seems to fix issues with xlc
2017-01-01T07:59:12Z Guest82927 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T07:59:26Z Guest82927 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T07:59:42Z fying1999 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T08:00:23Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-01T08:00:32Z rjid: Happy new year!
2017-01-01T08:01:13Z dpg quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T08:01:35Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-01T08:09:00Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T08:09:08Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-01T08:11:55Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2017-01-01T08:12:06Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-01T08:12:15Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-01T08:15:23Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T08:17:30Z Guest82927 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T08:17:49Z Guest82927 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T08:30:34Z rjid quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T08:37:55Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-01T08:38:05Z sword quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T08:38:57Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T08:40:27Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-01T08:41:37Z svetlyak40wt_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T08:42:53Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T08:43:30Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-01T08:44:22Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-01T08:47:34Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-01T08:48:23Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-01T08:48:40Z vap1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T08:50:49Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-01T08:53:47Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-01T08:54:13Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T09:01:24Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T09:01:44Z _main_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T09:02:20Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T09:02:28Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T09:02:31Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T09:02:51Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-01T09:03:46Z _main_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T09:05:11Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T09:05:18Z __main__ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T09:08:59Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T09:09:11Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T09:09:15Z Bike quit (Quit: fear god)
2017-01-01T09:22:45Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T09:23:31Z deank quit
2017-01-01T09:36:03Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-01T09:39:01Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T09:42:40Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T09:54:01Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T09:56:06Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T09:56:21Z andrei_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T09:56:35Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-01T10:02:12Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:03:36Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:07:32Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-01T10:08:18Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:08:33Z rogersm quit (Quit: rogersm)
2017-01-01T10:09:30Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:10:45Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T10:11:07Z shifty joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:12:26Z jean377 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T10:17:51Z jean377 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:22:12Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:23:31Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-01T10:23:36Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T10:27:30Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:27:50Z Tex_Nick joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:30:16Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:31:28Z svetlyak40wt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T10:31:40Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:32:10Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:33:49Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:34:13Z lexicall joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:37:30Z peterbig: Happy New Year
2017-01-01T10:39:01Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T10:41:13Z beach: You too, peterbig.
2017-01-01T10:42:05Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:42:24Z beach: Did you figure out how to run the game?
2017-01-01T10:42:46Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:44:01Z peterbig: yeah,I need download so many systems
2017-01-01T10:44:46Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:44:58Z vap1 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:45:34Z peterbig: sorry,My english is not well
2017-01-01T10:46:58Z beach: s/well/good/ :)
2017-01-01T10:47:26Z beach: "good" is an adjective, "well" is an adverb.
2017-01-01T10:48:51Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T10:49:56Z peterbig: The game which we have discussed yesterday can't run well.
2017-01-01T10:50:13Z beach: Why is that?
2017-01-01T10:51:23Z peterbig: the coordinates are not right from my screen
2017-01-01T10:52:00Z vap1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T10:52:02Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T10:52:15Z peterbig: author 's screen is not the same with me
2017-01-01T10:52:18Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:52:56Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-01T10:53:03Z beach: Maybe you can fix it.
2017-01-01T10:53:43Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-01T10:55:42Z peterbig: I'll try to fix it
2017-01-01T10:55:44Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T10:55:56Z peterbig: thanks for you help
2017-01-01T11:01:13Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T11:02:02Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:02:56Z ragepandemic joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:07:37Z forgottenpurple_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T11:10:28Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-01T11:10:52Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-01T11:11:02Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T11:11:19Z krasnal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T11:16:31Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:22:19Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:31:27Z heurist joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:34:59Z xaotuk joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:36:22Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:37:40Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:39:12Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-01T11:41:46Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:42:36Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:43:00Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-01T11:43:27Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:44:56Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T11:45:36Z prole: Hie, I have a little problem: my code is of this form: "(format t "enter this") (let ((var (read-line))) (..))". In the REPL, everything works well, but when I compiled it and use it in the command line, "enter this" appears only after (read-line). I have to type, press RET and then format make its work... I don't understand what is the problem
2017-01-01T11:45:59Z beach: clhs finish-output
2017-01-01T11:46:00Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_finish.htm
2017-01-01T11:46:12Z teggi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T11:46:15Z prole: well, that was fast
2017-01-01T11:46:17Z prole: thanks :)
2017-01-01T11:46:27Z beach: Anytime.
2017-01-01T11:46:28Z teggi joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:46:57Z teggi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T11:47:13Z teggi joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:47:44Z teggi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T11:48:03Z teggi joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:48:25Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:48:32Z teggi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T11:48:53Z teggi joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:49:20Z teggi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T11:49:38Z teggi joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:50:08Z teggi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T11:55:34Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 259 seconds)
2017-01-01T11:57:25Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-01T11:59:53Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-01T12:02:15Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T12:04:32Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T12:08:12Z msmith quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T12:09:18Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-01T12:09:21Z quazimodo quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-01T12:09:39Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-01T12:11:00Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-01T12:12:23Z Amplituhedron quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-01T12:13:07Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T12:21:27Z msmith joined #lisp
2017-01-01T12:29:23Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-01T12:32:07Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-01T12:34:19Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-01T12:34:51Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T12:35:52Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-01T12:41:01Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-01T12:51:13Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-01T12:51:19Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-01T12:58:43Z MrBismuth quit (Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIqYqtR1lY -- Suicide is Painless - Johnny Mandel)
2017-01-01T13:02:12Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-01T13:02:20Z lexicall quit (Quit: Ah, my macbook is gonna sleep!)
2017-01-01T13:03:01Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T13:05:44Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-01T13:07:46Z peterbig quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T13:11:32Z MrBismuth joined #lisp
2017-01-01T13:14:38Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-01T13:16:49Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T13:18:43Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-01T13:21:13Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-01T13:25:01Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-01T13:26:49Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T13:27:08Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-01T13:31:15Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-01T13:31:38Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-01T13:40:03Z prole quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T13:44:25Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T13:49:43Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-01T13:52:29Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-01T13:54:35Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-01T13:58:12Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-01T14:00:36Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-01T14:03:20Z Guest82927 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T14:04:16Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-01T14:05:52Z ghostlight quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-01T14:07:26Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-01T14:08:11Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T14:08:42Z ghostlight joined #lisp
2017-01-01T14:09:19Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-01T14:13:24Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-01T14:17:19Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-01T14:23:00Z xaotuk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T14:23:39Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T14:24:52Z pickle_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T14:25:17Z pickle_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T14:35:34Z warweasle joined #lisp
2017-01-01T14:36:33Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T14:37:50Z ludston: Here is a fun one for you
2017-01-01T14:38:15Z ludston: (sin (* pi 4)) has a different value in sbcl than to clisp
2017-01-01T14:38:54Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-01T14:39:17Z ludston: -4*10^-16 vs 2*10^-19 respectively
2017-01-01T14:39:55Z dpg quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-01T14:40:13Z phoe: ludston: uh
2017-01-01T14:40:37Z phoe: looks like usual float inequality stuff
2017-01-01T14:41:42Z lonjil joined #lisp
2017-01-01T14:44:09Z ludston: phoe: Ya. Its a shame really. More annoying though is that (sin (* 8 pi)) has another value altogether
2017-01-01T14:45:45Z ludston: Just because in pen to paper math sin(360) = sin(0)
2017-01-01T14:46:31Z ludston: Ah well. I guess you have to suffer to be beautiful
2017-01-01T14:47:28Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-01T14:51:58Z phoe: ludston: float math has surprisingly little in common with paper maths
2017-01-01T14:52:15Z phoe: especially when you take errors into account.
2017-01-01T14:52:49Z phoe: if you do paper math with accounting for all the possible computation errors that may arise, then you'll get similar values here, too.
2017-01-01T14:53:04Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-01T14:58:31Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-01T14:59:51Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:02:08Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:02:29Z mathi_aihtam quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-01T15:04:33Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:06:12Z grouzen joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:10:32Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-01T15:10:44Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T15:12:35Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T15:13:55Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T15:15:09Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:20:53Z Amplituhedron quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-01T15:24:52Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:25:25Z jmarciano: also is slightly different in ECL and in MKCL is similar to SBCL
2017-01-01T15:26:26Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-01T15:26:30Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:27:18Z cesdo joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:28:30Z M-Illandan quit (Changing host)
2017-01-01T15:28:30Z M-Illandan joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:28:30Z M-Illandan quit (Changing host)
2017-01-01T15:28:30Z M-Illandan joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:28:31Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T15:29:32Z phoe: ludston: if you want algebraic-precise computation, use one of Lisp algebra packages/tools or, if you need to look away from Lisp, Mathematica, MATLAB, Maple or Octave.
2017-01-01T15:31:45Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-01T15:33:07Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:35:15Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:41:16Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:41:18Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-01T15:43:25Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-01T15:43:57Z bigos quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-01T15:44:32Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:44:40Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:45:04Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:48:05Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:48:52Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-01T15:51:12Z hydan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T15:51:57Z hydan joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:55:06Z jmignault joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:55:26Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T15:56:53Z uu left #lisp
2017-01-01T15:58:56Z unbalanced joined #lisp
2017-01-01T16:02:13Z warweasle quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.5.1)
2017-01-01T16:02:54Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-01T16:08:08Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-01T16:08:24Z shrdlu68 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T16:09:37Z jmignault quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T16:10:03Z jmignault joined #lisp
2017-01-01T16:10:12Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-01T16:10:59Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-01T16:11:14Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T16:11:36Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-01T16:14:56Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T16:17:54Z cesdo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T16:24:28Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T16:25:39Z Ven_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T16:26:54Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T16:27:01Z ragepandemic quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T16:30:21Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-01T16:31:32Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-01T16:31:53Z ragepandemic joined #lisp
2017-01-01T16:33:32Z jmarciano quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-01T16:42:16Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T16:52:31Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T16:57:06Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:02:08Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-01T17:06:01Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T17:09:18Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-01T17:09:44Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-01T17:11:57Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:15:09Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:16:26Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-01T17:17:49Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:23:31Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:24:25Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:29:01Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:32:22Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:34:13Z dpg quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T17:35:22Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-01T17:35:51Z cesdo joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:40:51Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:43:03Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:44:34Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:45:28Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-01T17:49:57Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:51:33Z forgottenpurple_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:52:44Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:53:18Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:54:02Z lisp192 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:54:04Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T17:54:32Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T17:55:25Z lisp192: Hey, I am trying to refresh my lisp skills and would like to ask what I should do so that my function
2017-01-01T17:55:40Z lisp192: goes inside the nested member and also outside it
2017-01-01T17:55:41Z lisp192: http://paste.lisp.org/display/335465
2017-01-01T17:55:43Z lisp192: here's my code
2017-01-01T17:55:49Z lisp192: cons works but it's kinda cheating I feel
2017-01-01T17:56:00Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:56:24Z rjid quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T17:56:37Z phoe: What does that PROGN do?
2017-01-01T17:56:55Z klltkr|CLE joined #lisp
2017-01-01T17:56:56Z lisp192: Well I was trying to do those two functions sequentially
2017-01-01T17:57:08Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-01T17:57:10Z phoe: You compute something and then discard its value.
2017-01-01T17:57:40Z lisp192: ah, never was much of a progn user :D
2017-01-01T17:57:51Z pseudonymous: phoe: it kind of works like a block delimiter ( { ... } ) in C-style languages, grouping a bunch of forms together. Some forms, like 'if' only take a limited number of forms (if <test> <success-form> <fail-form>)
2017-01-01T17:57:53Z lisp192: so how would I go on about?
2017-01-01T17:58:12Z lisp192: it*
2017-01-01T17:58:24Z phoe: pseudonymous: I know what PROGN does.
2017-01-01T17:58:31Z phoe: I don't know what that PROGN is supposed to mean in that context.
2017-01-01T17:59:04Z phoe: MEMBER is a pure function, it is called twice inside that progn, so one can just discard the first call altogether.
2017-01-01T18:00:11Z pseudonymous: phoe: oh, I see, my bad.
2017-01-01T18:00:31Z dpg quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T18:00:35Z phoe: lisp192: you will want to use EQL and not EQ, because of numbers and characters.
2017-01-01T18:00:52Z lisp192: Ah, yes
2017-01-01T18:01:08Z jackdaniel: for numbers you want to use =, not eql
2017-01-01T18:01:09Z phoe: lisp192: also, what do you want that function to do? In English, I mean.
2017-01-01T18:01:25Z lisp192: Well it checks whether A is included in list B
2017-01-01T18:01:25Z jackdaniel: (eql 0.0 0) -> nil
2017-01-01T18:01:26Z phoe: jackdaniel: the standard test for #'MEMBER is EQL and not =.
2017-01-01T18:01:30Z jackdaniel: (= 0.0 0) -> T
2017-01-01T18:01:33Z lisp192: it also checks nested lists for the member
2017-01-01T18:01:43Z lisp192: so if it finds a nested list
2017-01-01T18:01:54Z lisp192: it goes both inside it and continues onwards
2017-01-01T18:02:26Z phoe: lisp192: (SOME #'MEMBER (CAR B))
2017-01-01T18:02:38Z phoe: uh, wait
2017-01-01T18:02:40Z phoe: lisp192: (SOME #'MEMBER A (CAR B))
2017-01-01T18:02:52Z phoe: uh, wait, no
2017-01-01T18:02:53Z lisp192: No idea what that does
2017-01-01T18:02:55Z lisp192: can you explain?
2017-01-01T18:02:57Z phoe: clhs some
2017-01-01T18:02:58Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_everyc.htm
2017-01-01T18:03:17Z phoe: (some (lambda (x) (member a x)) (car b))
2017-01-01T18:04:16Z lisp192: I've never  used these things
2017-01-01T18:04:28Z lisp192: I mean it appears to check the nested one
2017-01-01T18:04:29Z phoe: basically, #'SOME applies a target predicate function to a list (or lists) of arguments and returns true if *any* of the result values returned true.
2017-01-01T18:04:32Z lisp192: but does it move forwards?
2017-01-01T18:05:04Z jackdaniel: it does not, it stops when meets T
2017-01-01T18:05:05Z lisp192: so car b is the x here?
2017-01-01T18:05:08Z unbalanced quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-01T18:05:13Z phoe: jackdaniel: woops, my bad
2017-01-01T18:05:14Z phoe: right
2017-01-01T18:05:26Z lisp192: do I just add another cdr b after it?
2017-01-01T18:05:47Z phoe: I sadly don't have the concentration to respond to your question right now
2017-01-01T18:05:54Z phoe: http://paste.lisp.org/display/335465#1 <- this is the thing that I quickly whipped up.
2017-01-01T18:06:04Z phoe: and I have to run. hope someone else has the time to answer you.
2017-01-01T18:06:33Z lisp192: Thank you for your
2017-01-01T18:06:33Z lisp192: help :)
2017-01-01T18:07:03Z malice quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2017-01-01T18:07:33Z jackdaniel: lisp192: first of all indent your code properly
2017-01-01T18:07:47Z jackdaniel: second thing member is already defined function, you could change its name
2017-01-01T18:08:10Z jackdaniel: third – what is the expected result? you want to check, if A is one of the B tree leafs?
2017-01-01T18:08:17Z lisp192: yeah
2017-01-01T18:08:49Z lisp192: it's practice I don't need to pay attention to names and the like....
2017-01-01T18:09:14Z jackdaniel: since it won't compile in your repl, then you need to pay attention to that
2017-01-01T18:09:26Z jackdaniel: also keeping things indented properly is essential part of the practice
2017-01-01T18:09:34Z lisp192: true
2017-01-01T18:10:10Z jackdaniel: regarding traversing the tree, you may use subst for that to hack something working
2017-01-01T18:10:46Z jackdaniel: another option is to settle explicit block over map-tree (map-tree would be a higher-order function which applies your predicate, which has (return-from my-block T) when it encounters the required value
2017-01-01T18:10:56Z jackdaniel: )
2017-01-01T18:12:39Z jackdaniel: here http://lisptips.com/post/43404489000/the-tree-walkers-of-cl
2017-01-01T18:13:08Z jackdaniel: (regarding subst-based slution)
2017-01-01T18:13:46Z jackdaniel: good luck, I'm off o/
2017-01-01T18:15:23Z pjb: lisp192: (subsetp a b)
2017-01-01T18:15:34Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-01T18:15:41Z pjb: lisp192: (subsetp a b :test (function =)) if you only have numbers and want to treat 0 and 0.0 as equals.
2017-01-01T18:16:20Z varjagg joined #lisp
2017-01-01T18:16:39Z pjb: lisp192: however notice that subsetp tests of set inclusion.  The notion of "a list A included in a list B" is not defined, you would have to be more precise on what you mean here.
2017-01-01T18:16:57Z pjb: lisp192: and actually, if you formalized your meaning, you'd be very close to have the code of your function!
2017-01-01T18:18:01Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T18:21:52Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-01T18:32:55Z vap1 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T18:33:04Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-01T18:34:32Z lisp192: sorry had lunch
2017-01-01T18:35:26Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T18:35:54Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-01T18:36:03Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-01T18:36:10Z vap1 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-01T18:36:36Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2017-01-01T18:47:45Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T18:48:51Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-01T18:50:11Z kammd quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-01T18:53:28Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T18:54:59Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T18:55:55Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-01T18:56:27Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T18:57:13Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T18:57:52Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-01T19:02:40Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T19:03:50Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-01T19:06:59Z lisp192 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T19:10:46Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T19:11:21Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-01T19:11:21Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-01T19:11:21Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-01T19:11:38Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-01T19:12:56Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T19:13:33Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-01T19:15:15Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-01T19:15:43Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T19:22:56Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-01T19:22:58Z rogersm joined #lisp
2017-01-01T19:24:23Z m00natic quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T19:25:26Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-01T19:32:50Z voidlily quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-01T19:35:57Z unbalanced joined #lisp
2017-01-01T19:37:01Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-01T19:38:11Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-01T19:48:03Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-01T19:49:13Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T19:55:54Z ebrasca` joined #lisp
2017-01-01T19:55:54Z ebrasca` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T19:56:08Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-01T19:59:29Z troydm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T19:59:39Z xrash joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:02:11Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:02:11Z troydm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T20:03:06Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:03:06Z troydm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T20:04:22Z ebrasca` joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:04:28Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:05:02Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:12:08Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:13:46Z prole quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T20:14:29Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:15:00Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-01T20:17:44Z prole quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-01T20:17:49Z listp quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T20:17:55Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T20:17:56Z listp joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:19:45Z troydm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T20:23:34Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-01T20:28:06Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T20:28:33Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:29:03Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:29:11Z voidlily joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:31:16Z ebrasca` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T20:31:35Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:32:52Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-01T20:36:47Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:39:10Z jmignault quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T20:41:51Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:42:37Z Ven_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T20:44:02Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:46:14Z zagura joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:53:58Z foobar_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T20:54:18Z foobar_: anybody using blackbird package?
2017-01-01T20:56:05Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-01T20:56:26Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-01T20:57:08Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-01T20:58:41Z phoe: foobar_: ask your question!
2017-01-01T20:58:59Z foobar_: how do i extract the value from a promise?
2017-01-01T20:59:55Z foobar_: like wait on the promise ?
2017-01-01T21:01:45Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-01T21:02:57Z phoe: foobar_: when you have a promise, then it returns some sort of value
2017-01-01T21:03:10Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-01T21:03:15Z phoe: ...at some point of time.
2017-01-01T21:03:24Z foobar_: well i would like the value returned by the callback
2017-01-01T21:03:28Z foobar_: when it's done
2017-01-01T21:03:33Z phoe: where do you want it?
2017-01-01T21:03:45Z foobar_: in repl
2017-01-01T21:03:53Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T21:03:58Z phoe: then there's no point in doing async
2017-01-01T21:03:58Z foobar_: it seems i can onl process inside event-loop?
2017-01-01T21:04:09Z phoe: just call the function synchronously
2017-01-01T21:04:11Z foobar_: phoe yes i know
2017-01-01T21:04:16Z phoe: your REPL will block
2017-01-01T21:04:22Z phoe: and finally it will return a value.
2017-01-01T21:04:34Z gabnet joined #lisp
2017-01-01T21:04:37Z phoe: REPL is not asynchronous on its own.
2017-01-01T21:04:54Z foobar_: maybe i am not phrasing it appropriately
2017-01-01T21:04:57Z phoe: you might want the callback to push the value somewhere or set some variable to that value.
2017-01-01T21:05:29Z phoe: but you cannot just make the value "appear" in the REPL. it's not how the basic Lisp REPL works.
2017-01-01T21:06:10Z foobar_: well i should be able to wait on the promise and return the value
2017-01-01T21:06:44Z phoe: that's why I say - don't do async if you want it like that.
2017-01-01T21:07:03Z phoe: If your promise is going to block on some function call like (FOO), then just type (FOO) in the REPL.
2017-01-01T21:07:19Z phoe: You will wait on the function call which will eventually return the value to you.
2017-01-01T21:08:32Z foobar_: i was thinking more of l-vars passing promises around
2017-01-01T21:10:04Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T21:12:07Z phoe: foobar_: hm.
2017-01-01T21:13:56Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T21:14:11Z foobar_: as i see the cl-async is like epoll/select
2017-01-01T21:14:30Z phoe: This is actually interesting.
2017-01-01T21:14:31Z foobar_: we are expected to chain promises all the way to the top
2017-01-01T21:14:38Z phoe: Once I have a promise object, I can check whether it has finished.
2017-01-01T21:14:52Z phoe: But I do not see a function that extracts a value from a finished promise.
2017-01-01T21:18:25Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-01T21:20:16Z jurov: phoe: if you read the promise.lisp, there is accessor #'values
2017-01-01T21:20:23Z jurov: or you meant something else?
2017-01-01T21:20:37Z jurov: er.. #'promise-values , sorry
2017-01-01T21:21:13Z phoe: jurov: it's not in the documentation then.
2017-01-01T21:21:42Z phoe: "It [the promise class] currently has no public accessors"
2017-01-01T21:21:51Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-01T21:21:58Z jurov: last time i complained about missing docs, i was told to donate :)
2017-01-01T21:22:20Z LooneyTunes quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-01T21:23:21Z foobar_: yeah
2017-01-01T21:23:31Z jurov: anyway, the intent was that you get the values handed to your callback(s) and where it is stored, is just implementation detail
2017-01-01T21:23:43Z foobar_: i just found out
2017-01-01T21:23:44Z jurov: *probably was
2017-01-01T21:23:56Z foobar_: it's useful to read the source anyway thanks :)
2017-01-01T21:24:37Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-01T21:29:06Z phoe: jurov: :D
2017-01-01T21:29:07Z phoe: I see
2017-01-01T21:30:42Z foobar_: i believe the promise library just assumes that you are running it under a event loop
2017-01-01T21:32:01Z foobar_: i think it should provide a wait method on promise if someone uses it on a different backend
2017-01-01T21:34:43Z dpg quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T21:37:32Z devon joined #lisp
2017-01-01T21:37:50Z devon: Happy 2017 everyone!
2017-01-01T21:38:07Z phoe: foobar_: it has a wait method
2017-01-01T21:38:11Z phoe: that's mentioned in the documentation
2017-01-01T21:38:23Z aeth: devon: happy make-year
2017-01-01T21:38:51Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-01T21:39:32Z foobar_: phoe well that wait throws the value away
2017-01-01T21:40:13Z foobar_: something that waits for the promise to finish and return it's value
2017-01-01T21:40:44Z foobar_: devon: happy new year to you too :)
2017-01-01T21:42:31Z phoe: foobar_: ugh, well
2017-01-01T21:42:40Z phoe: looks like you'll need to construct some sort of a wait yourself
2017-01-01T21:43:15Z foobar_: sure; i was just talking about the library
2017-01-01T21:43:22Z foobar_: i will file an issue
2017-01-01T21:43:36Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-01T21:47:35Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-01T21:48:25Z nowhere_man quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-01T21:48:40Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-01T21:53:24Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-01T21:56:11Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-01T21:56:14Z phoe: foobar_: and a pull request, if the documentation is available anywhere in its source code form.
2017-01-01T22:00:39Z jmignault joined #lisp
2017-01-01T22:02:22Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T22:03:30Z rogersm quit (Quit: rogersm)
2017-01-01T22:05:33Z jmignault quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-01T22:05:43Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T22:15:13Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-01T22:16:32Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-01T22:16:44Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-01T22:16:52Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-01T22:18:56Z unbalanced quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-01T22:21:31Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T22:25:02Z gabnet quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-01T22:29:01Z foobar_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-01T22:29:03Z jurov: phoe: i have looked to my code which used blackbird and you need to make-instance of your promise class yourself, and when later filled you will call blackbird-base::finish on it, it will resolve all callbacks
2017-01-01T22:29:31Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-01T22:31:17Z jurov: neither is described in the API
2017-01-01T22:35:52Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-01T22:37:34Z MoALTz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-01T22:38:20Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T22:40:53Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-01T22:41:42Z shrdlu68 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-01T22:51:48Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-01T22:53:26Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T22:53:29Z listp quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T22:54:24Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-01T22:55:32Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-01T22:58:29Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-01T22:59:57Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T23:07:13Z Davidbrcz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-01T23:07:17Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-01T23:08:47Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-01T23:10:42Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-01T23:11:42Z mada: I'm thinking of learning a bit of lisp. What are some of the strenghts of lisp when compared to ML-like languages?
2017-01-01T23:12:27Z phoe: mada: Lisp is strong in general when it comes to brevity of code.
2017-01-01T23:12:56Z phoe: Repetitive parts of code are likely to be abstracted away with macros.
2017-01-01T23:13:23Z mada: phoe: I see, yeah I've read that somewhere, that you can get a lot of leverage with little code
2017-01-01T23:13:43Z phoe: The same trait makes it easy to bend Lisp to absorb programming paradigms. If Lisp does not support a programming paradigm you enjoy, you can implement it yourself.
2017-01-01T23:14:22Z mada: So it's common to develop your own "dsl" for whatever particular task you have
2017-01-01T23:14:46Z phoe: The interactivity is also a huge plus. You can develop your application incrementally, playing in the REPL first, then picking pieces of that and implementing a solid piece of code in a stationary file.
2017-01-01T23:15:04Z phoe: Well, you usually end up not inventing a DSL but instead extending Lisp.
2017-01-01T23:15:37Z mada: ah
2017-01-01T23:16:23Z phoe: And Lisp is very extensible. Whatever sort of function or syntactical construct you create, it melds with everything else.
2017-01-01T23:16:40Z phoe: Like, looks the same.
2017-01-01T23:16:43Z mada: and how's the debugging experience?
2017-01-01T23:17:10Z dan64- joined #lisp
2017-01-01T23:17:21Z mada: I mean: do you step through code, test small pieces in the repl?
2017-01-01T23:17:22Z phoe: CL specification has a trace function, an inspector of live objects, a debugger and means of stepping through the code.
2017-01-01T23:17:33Z phoe: Yep. But the interactivity makes debugging so much more fun.
2017-01-01T23:17:33Z mada: oh nice
2017-01-01T23:17:51Z dan64 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-01T23:18:07Z mada: I gather this is a Common Lisp channel, right? :)
2017-01-01T23:18:24Z phoe: The REPL is amazing for this sort of things, especially when you go with the mostly-functional style that's common in CL.
2017-01-01T23:18:28Z phoe: mada: ayup.
2017-01-01T23:18:47Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-01T23:18:58Z Petit_Dejeuner: mada: If an uncaught "exception" is raised, you're placed into a debugger that will allow you to pick from several options. You can define new options in code (i.g. skip a malformed entry, enter in an entry by hand, kill servlet). These options will be available from the debugger or for 'catch' blocks to use. You can also redefine and reload a function while you're in the debugger and just hit 'Retry'.
2017-01-01T23:19:35Z mada: phoe: a big part of trying to get into lisp so far has been spending some time waddling through different lisps, trying to choose one. I get in the end they'll all be "similar"
2017-01-01T23:19:46Z phoe: mada: not really.
2017-01-01T23:20:10Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-01T23:20:14Z phoe: CL is a language designed to craft actual useful applications for people and companies.
2017-01-01T23:20:16Z Petit_Dejeuner: The only times you should ever have to restart a program are if you're messing with a bad FFI interface, the implementation is broken, or fixing the internal state of the program is just too much harder than a clean restart.
2017-01-01T23:20:17Z mada: Petit_Dejeuner: that sounds very cool
2017-01-01T23:20:25Z Petit_Dejeuner: mada: Smalltalk has something similar.
2017-01-01T23:20:36Z phoe: Scheme is more or less an academical language.
2017-01-01T23:21:03Z mada: I'm mostly a python programmer, so I spend quite a bit of time in the repl. Didn't think that much interactivity was possible though
2017-01-01T23:21:04Z phoe: Clojure has been gaining a lot of attention as of late, but it tastes somewhat different due to its much more functional nature.
2017-01-01T23:22:09Z Petit_Dejeuner: mada: For instance, if I enter the expression (+ 1 a), I'm thrown into the debugger with an unbound variable error. It gives me the options to abort evaluation and retry. If I retry, the program will fail again, but if I define a variable 'a' and retry, the program will work.
2017-01-01T23:22:57Z Petit_Dejeuner: (Assuming 'a' was not already defined.)
2017-01-01T23:23:04Z phoe: what Petit_Dejeuner talks about has a lot of interesting consequences in multithreaded environments.
2017-01-01T23:23:12Z Petit_Dejeuner: "interesting"
2017-01-01T23:23:14Z phoe: A thread may fail and you are thrown into a debugger.
2017-01-01T23:23:22Z phoe: Woop, let's get another thread with a REPL!
2017-01-01T23:23:25Z phoe: We fix things up.
2017-01-01T23:23:50Z mada: this all sounds very cool. I'll definitely check common lisp then
2017-01-01T23:23:51Z phoe: We choose the retry option in the debugger. The retry option is something we've defined ourselves, so it does whatever we want.
2017-01-01T23:23:56Z mada: real world apps sound like a big plus.
2017-01-01T23:23:58Z phoe: Boom, the thread continues.
2017-01-01T23:24:47Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-01T23:25:13Z Petit_Dejeuner: mada: Common Lisp is some what difficult to get into. You almost have to switch to a new editor unless you're already using Emacs and the system for creating libraries is pretty complicated.
2017-01-01T23:25:26Z Petit_Dejeuner: But besides that it's one of the easiest languages to learn.
2017-01-01T23:25:32Z mada: oh, I'm a vim guy  :/
2017-01-01T23:25:39Z Petit_Dejeuner: You don't have to use Emacs.
2017-01-01T23:25:43Z Petit_Dejeuner: And there are Vim setups.
2017-01-01T23:25:48Z Petit_Dejeuner: But it's not as common.
2017-01-01T23:25:54Z phoe: Petit_Dejeuner: haha!
2017-01-01T23:25:56Z phoe: spacemacs.
2017-01-01T23:26:20Z phoe: it's a distribution of Emacs that started out as a means of converting vim users to the proper religion, but ended up being just an all-awesome editor package.
2017-01-01T23:26:33Z phoe: ...and, uh
2017-01-01T23:26:43Z phoe: it made me convert to vim modes and leader key stuff and everything
2017-01-01T23:26:44Z Petit_Dejeuner: Right, but that's still not Vim. So he has to switch. Which is a bit of a nussiance.
2017-01-01T23:26:52Z phoe: Ayup.
2017-01-01T23:26:52Z Petit_Dejeuner: Might as well use Lisp Work's IDE now.
2017-01-01T23:27:01Z phoe: Or.
2017-01-01T23:27:05Z phoe: slimv.
2017-01-01T23:27:12Z phoe: which is what you've meant by vim setups.
2017-01-01T23:27:26Z Petit_Dejeuner: Probably, I'm not familliar with them.
2017-01-01T23:27:27Z phoe: anyway - if you want to keep your vim experience, ask around, there are people who use slimv.
2017-01-01T23:27:39Z Petit_Dejeuner: Anyway, the editor thing isn't that bad, but it's just one more hurdle.
2017-01-01T23:28:24Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-01T23:28:25Z Petit_Dejeuner: In Common Lisp you ALWAYS have an interactive mode open in another window while you develop, like irb or ipython.
2017-01-01T23:28:34Z Petit_Dejeuner: @ mada
2017-01-01T23:28:39Z mada: brb
2017-01-01T23:30:55Z impulse joined #lisp
2017-01-01T23:39:11Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-01T23:43:40Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-01T23:44:18Z sjl uses Vim with Common Lisp, it works fine.
2017-01-01T23:46:56Z Cthulhux: why?
2017-01-01T23:52:23Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-01T23:53:02Z aeth: To be fair, emacs is pretty terrible in 2016. And its everything-is-a-buffer does have some strange behavior come up with the mini-buffer sometimes. Lots of spamming C-g when that sort of thing comes up.
2017-01-01T23:53:40Z aeth: One example of how emacs is holding back CL is that certain SBCL error messages break paredit in the SLIME REPL because they imbalance the parentheses and then paredit quits working... because the prompt is in the same buffer as the stuff that should be read only above it.
2017-01-01T23:54:57Z aeth: A proper editor would probably break a REPL into two things, one for input and one for history and output, and avoid that particular edge case. But doing this in emacs would probably really mess with the buffer tiling, if it works.
2017-01-01T23:55:19Z hydan: aeth: that seems like a limitation of line representation than everything is a buffer. f.e. take a look at deuce from opendylan, it has that solved.
2017-01-01T23:55:20Z aeth: Because what you'd really want for a CL REPL is to have one "frame" split into two "sub-frames" of sorts.
2017-01-01T23:55:52Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-01T23:56:48Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-01T23:57:02Z aeth: Imo you also probably want visual feedback when you C-k a read-only thing (possibly highlighting what just got C-k'ed, because it's not necessarily just a line thanks to things like paredit), and you'd want the REPL except what you're editing to be read-only.
2017-01-01T23:58:11Z hydan: aeth: more info here https://discuss.atom.io/t/the-deuce-editor-architecture/2218
2017-01-01T23:58:18Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-01T23:59:12Z aeth: hydan: I think the reason GNU Emacs doesn't do many of those things is because emacs is a terminal application with a (poor) port to X... and there's just a handful of features like PDF reading thrown onto that port. It's not really designed to be graphical from the start.
2017-01-02T00:00:06Z aeth: A graphical emacs probably would have grown in bloat into a web browser by now.
2017-01-02T00:00:39Z hydan: aeth: "One day, a fool wanted to run Emacs in a GUI as a native GUI program. The rest is ChangeLog."
2017-01-02T00:01:11Z hydan: aeth: It is not helped by the fact that there are still people around who keep insisting on using it from terminal
2017-01-02T00:02:02Z aeth: I use emacs in a sysadmin style from the terminal, binding "emacs -nw" to "e" so I can be lazy in typing it. It launches extremely fast this way.
2017-01-02T00:02:24Z listp joined #lisp
2017-01-02T00:02:41Z aeth: I also use emacs as a full-featured CL IDE, with SLIME and run graphically (but with a menu bar and tool bar turned off... the graphics are mostly for nicer fonts/colors and a few other nice features)
2017-01-02T00:03:03Z aeth: (I do use it to e.g. open PDFs sometimes too)
2017-01-02T00:03:43Z aeth: I don't think you can really have the same application handle both roles properly. Terminals are too different from modern graphical applications (mainly because terminals are frozen in time... they don't *have* to be that different)
2017-01-02T00:04:43Z hydan: aeth: there are some that try new stuff. f.e. Terminology
2017-01-02T00:05:34Z aeth: For instance, the emacs menu bar is almost useless for people who want to be keyboard-driven. It doesn't even give the keyboard shortcuts for most things. It seems to be anywhere from about half to most. And you can't Alt+F, Alt+E, etc., navigate to get the rest of the items that have menu entries but no given shortcuts. (For obvious reasons!)
2017-01-02T00:06:07Z aeth: Worse, sometimes it doesn't show the shortcuts when I know there are shortcuts because I know the shortcut! It should at least show the M-x foo.
2017-01-02T00:07:04Z aeth: The main way I learned most applications was the menu bar... that's the main way to learn the keyboard navigation in a lot of them. But not emacs. It's basically useless in emacs imo.
2017-01-02T00:08:17Z aeth: hydan: I think the issue is that you need to do both a shell and a terminal... and you also need to be compatible with existing ones. It's a large task.
2017-01-02T00:09:48Z hydan: aeth: I work from eshell and have some stuff run in term buffer automatically, works fine 99.99999 of the time.
2017-01-02T00:10:18Z aeth: A sufficiently advanced REPL in a sufficiently advanced editor could probably replace a shell and a terminal, though. e.g. a shell-mode CL that auto-imports certain libraries and when in shell-mode inserts ()s around lines with no ()s, so e.g. "+ 1 1" becomes "(+ 1 1)"
2017-01-02T00:11:14Z hydan: aeth: my personal gripe with Emacs is the original issue you mentioned, that it is not that good of a graphical program. And that its no that good of an editor in 2017.
2017-01-02T00:11:51Z mada: ok I'm back. Thanks Petit_Dejeuner and phoe, I'll start by getting set up and reading up
2017-01-02T00:12:11Z hydan: aeth: Specifically when working with cl and seeing what was possible in Genera, it is hard not to get annoyed.
2017-01-02T00:12:24Z mada: how's "A gentle introduction to symbolic computation" to get started?
2017-01-02T00:12:45Z hydan: mada: If you already know programming pick up PCL+CLR
2017-01-02T00:12:48Z aeth: Hmm... You could probably even make #'l (launch), #'r (run), or #'e (exec) the function that execs shell commands and just make it a REPL with no confusing issue between native "ls" vs #'ls... So "r \"rm -r foo\"" or something
2017-01-02T00:12:58Z mada: hydan: I'm familiar with programming, and the basics of functional programming
2017-01-02T00:13:08Z mada: hydan: PCL+CLR?
2017-01-02T00:13:18Z mada: practical common lisp + ?
2017-01-02T00:13:25Z mada: common lisp.. reference?
2017-01-02T00:13:31Z vicfred joined #lisp
2017-01-02T00:13:32Z aeth: hydan: I guess my main issue here is that GNU Emacs can't replace the terminal even if it was substantially reworked (it won't be) because most of the time it's run in the terminal.
2017-01-02T00:13:34Z hydan: mada: then go with practical common lisp and commol lisp recipes
2017-01-02T00:13:59Z mada: good. Thank you
2017-01-02T00:16:26Z pjb: aeth: the criticism you're addressing at emacs is ill-addressed: they are clearly problems in slime or in paredit. What you should realize is that  such problems in any other editor you'd be stuck, but instead here you have the sources, and you can write the emacs lisp code to make it work exactly as you wish!
2017-01-02T00:17:28Z aeth: pjb: emacs has never been the only editor under a FOSS license
2017-01-02T00:17:43Z aeth: pjb: Also, the source doesn't matter when it's 30 years of spaghetti.
2017-01-02T00:17:50Z pjb: without recompiling the editor itself!
2017-01-02T00:18:14Z pjb: You don't need to know C to make emacs do what you wish.
2017-01-02T00:18:23Z hydan: aeth: You can try your hand and hemlock or deuce, they are much simpler, and f.e. deuce solves some of the UI interaction things you mentioned.
2017-01-02T00:18:44Z aeth: pjb: The fundamental emacs model of everything-as-buffer is broken, at least based on what emacs has become, which is an IDE and an application platform.
2017-01-02T00:19:01Z aeth: pjb: Everything should be a *frame*, but the frame isn't necessarily best represented as a buffer.
2017-01-02T00:19:19Z pjb: Now, code quality is indeed another problem and the lack eg. of a package system in emacs lisp are indeed valid criticism of emacs (emacs lisp actually).  But this is never what is complained about emacs.  People always complain about things written in emacs lisp, instead.
2017-01-02T00:19:32Z aeth: pjb: M-x package-list-packages
2017-01-02T00:19:58Z pjb: buffers are objects.  They have all kind of attributes (buffer local variables). They don't even need to be visible ever.
2017-01-02T00:20:18Z aeth: Emacs Lisp is a horrible language, too. Emacs Lisp is basically a pre-CL Lisp, which shouldn't be used for serious things ever.
2017-01-02T00:20:31Z aeth: There's a reason we're using CL and not FooLisp, because CL was monumentally better than its predecessors.
2017-01-02T00:20:35Z pjb: You find it strange that the root class of all the objects in the emacs lisp object system contain a buffer of text, but since we're talking about a text editor, it may not be so strange to have this design.
2017-01-02T00:20:38Z hydan: coincidentally the third party packages are the main reason Emacs is slow in 2017 :D
2017-01-02T00:20:39Z mada: sjl: how's your vim setup for CL?
2017-01-02T00:20:44Z mada: what's*
2017-01-02T00:21:03Z pjb: Now you're starting to address the real problems with emacs.
2017-01-02T00:21:14Z aeth: pjb: The thing is, emacs isn't just a text editor anymore.
2017-01-02T00:21:49Z aeth: emacs is a full IDE, with things like a REPL, and multiple ways to interface with git, and multiple ways to do a terminal or shell (M-x term, M-x shell, M-x eshell, and probably 2 more I forgot)
2017-01-02T00:21:51Z pjb: But we still have the same problem: where are the tens of millions of USD needed to make a sizeable team of developers rewrite everything in CL in a couple of years?
2017-01-02T00:22:39Z aeth: That's a pre-Linux way of thinking about things. One sufficiently motivated person will probably start the ball rolling on a budget of $0 at some point.
2017-01-02T00:22:48Z aeth: (I mean the Linux kernel.)
2017-01-02T00:23:08Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-02T00:23:11Z Josh_2 quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-02T00:23:18Z hydan: aeth: I think you hit the hammer on the nail with the "application platform" mention. What a true alternative to Emacs would be is that and that foremost. and with McCLIM revival going on... who knows..
2017-01-02T00:23:19Z pjb: Start up a corporation, sell it for hundreds of millions to google, and instead of financing ubuntu, spacex or some other silly venture, finance CL developments!
2017-01-02T00:23:44Z pjb: aeth: of course, you can do like RMS. It'll take 30 years.
2017-01-02T00:24:38Z aeth: If Google did their due diligence, they'd never buy anything of mine. I've been a very vocal critic of advertisements. :-p
2017-01-02T00:25:04Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T00:25:31Z aeth: And somewhere in their giant data centers they have that information :-p
2017-01-02T00:25:47Z antonis quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-02T00:26:05Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-02T00:26:34Z aeth: Advertisements are basically exploiting bugs in human software to drain those humans of money.
2017-01-02T00:26:50Z hydan: pjb: if I had a penny for every lisp hacker that tried that and failed, including you I believe :D
2017-01-02T00:27:14Z aeth: But you don't need hundreds of millions of money that was derived from exploiting software in order to make an editor.
2017-01-02T00:27:20Z pjb: well, don't say failed, say sidetracked, had to work on something else for a living, etc.
2017-01-02T00:27:28Z pjb: aeth: yes you need them.
2017-01-02T00:27:59Z aeth: pjb: I am making a game engine because every self-respecting game engine eventually grows to the point where it has an IDE bundled with the engine.
2017-01-02T00:28:16Z pjb: To get a MVP of an editor that can convince users to switch from emacs (and all its third party libraries), you need to invest a lot of work.
2017-01-02T00:28:56Z hydan: pjb: still, you'd have way more fun writing something new, without terminal and all other limitations don't you think
2017-01-02T00:29:11Z hydan: pjb: and if you have a good core, you could start a chain reaction
2017-01-02T00:29:26Z pjb: I'd say you will need 20 developers over 3 or 4 years minimum, and that will cost you (* 20 4 200000) USD 16 million only in salaries. You will have to add all the overhead, the managers, the hardware etc.
2017-01-02T00:29:40Z hydan: pjb: didn't take much convincing for people to start writing stuff for all those new crappy editors.
2017-01-02T00:29:55Z aeth: pjb: *Or* I can make a niche editor that just happens to do many of the same things that emacs can do. The niche I'm going to be aiming at is tying it with a game engine. People do use IDEs when they're, um, "encouraged" to use those IDEs, which then creates a nice starting base of users.
2017-01-02T00:30:42Z aeth: It just so happens that a lot of the additions that would make it useful for making games would also make it useful for a general, graphical platform.
2017-01-02T00:30:50Z pjb: hydan: what are you talking about I must have downloaded and tried only one or two of them, perhaps spent 20 minutes in all in those other editors EVER!
2017-01-02T00:31:03Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-02T00:31:16Z froggey_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T00:31:31Z pjb: aeth: for example, I've been told there's a very nice niche editor named Xcode to do stuff for iOS and MacOSX.  I'm still using emacs and makefiles with xcodebuild…
2017-01-02T00:31:41Z pjb: Even the xcodeprojects, I generate them with xcodeproj.rb!
2017-01-02T00:31:54Z froggey quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-02T00:31:54Z hydan: pjb: exactly, they are crap, yet they have giant communities already writing all kinds of extensions, including many replacements for emacs features.
2017-01-02T00:32:02Z froggey_ is now known as froggey
2017-01-02T00:32:18Z aeth: pjb: Yes, but the hardest part with an editor is getting a community to use that editor... and the easiest way to get a community is to strongly encourage its use for a certain niche, usually an application platform of some sort.
2017-01-02T00:32:22Z pjb: hydan: well, have you any idea how many developpers Apple's paying to work on Xcode?
2017-01-02T00:32:32Z aeth: The hardest part is *not* engineering the editor. It's getting users.
2017-01-02T00:32:45Z pjb: And you don't have any spreadsheet, tetris or doctor in Xcode!
2017-01-02T00:32:49Z Petit_Dejeuner: So New Jersey approach?
2017-01-02T00:33:06Z pjb: Exactly!
2017-01-02T00:33:14Z aeth: Any bad editor will eventually grow in bloat over time to cover every feature. (Look at emacs, for instance.)
2017-01-02T00:33:15Z Petit_Dejeuner: The horror.
2017-01-02T00:33:15Z hydan: pjb: I don't think that is a fair comparison.. I am talking atom, vs code, sublime etc.
2017-01-02T00:33:19Z pjb: And to get emacs users, you will need to invest a lot!
2017-01-02T00:33:35Z aeth: The editors that aren't bloated are the editors that have died young due to lack of interest.
2017-01-02T00:33:56Z Petit_Dejeuner: If the base is good, then there's no need to grow vertically.
2017-01-02T00:34:26Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T00:34:35Z Petit_Dejeuner: Emacs has a good base, so it doesn't have layers on top of it.
2017-01-02T00:34:38Z aeth: pjb: I don't really care about attracting emacs users. I just want an environment where I can write CL with emacs-style keyboard-first key-chord-oriented programming. Not supporting the terminal will lose the interest of more than half of the emacs users, anyway.
2017-01-02T00:34:54Z pjb: aeth: this already exists: Hemlock.
2017-01-02T00:35:11Z aeth: I hope to eventually bloat my game engine enough so that I can start editing my game engine in my game engine.
2017-01-02T00:35:15Z pjb: with a very nice implementation on Cocoa: Clozure CL.app.
2017-01-02T00:35:30Z hydan: didn't hemlock have a terminal support as well, at least in the past
2017-01-02T00:35:53Z pjb: It has, and X11.  But Hemlock on X11 is not nice at all, compared to GNU emacs.
2017-01-02T00:36:20Z pjb: aeth: but see how people still want terminal support :-)
2017-01-02T00:36:29Z aeth: And that's saying something because emacs still feels like X was an afterthought in 2017.
2017-01-02T00:36:35Z aeth: So Hemlock must be *really* bad.
2017-01-02T00:36:49Z aeth: Although to be fair, emacs on X has improved a lot in the last 5 years or so.
2017-01-02T00:36:56Z pjb: and it's a good thing: we can use 99% of the emacs features in the terminal.
2017-01-02T00:37:02Z aeth: Not too long ago, emacs felt like it was right out of 1995.
2017-01-02T00:37:26Z pjb: I wouldn't mind if it felt like 1962: it'd be what we'll have in 2462! :-)
2017-01-02T00:37:36Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T00:37:54Z ebrasca quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-02T00:38:18Z aeth: pjb: The problem is that the terminal itself is a terrible, messy hack that was frozen in time decades ago with only a handful of things added on top since then, such as mouse support and more colors (which is barely used and never used properly ime)
2017-01-02T00:38:19Z pjb: aeth: look is purely fashion, something Apple promotes to sell new variants of their products twice a year.
2017-01-02T00:38:30Z hydan: pjb: and it will still be slow, because x11 in a browser in a vm in a browser in a vm in a browser by then most likely
2017-01-02T00:39:04Z pjb: aeth: nope, the terminal is a perfect solution to a problem we still have today: perform I/O on a device that is far from the CPU, and with a bandwidth that is not always GB/s.
2017-01-02T00:39:30Z hydan: pjb: honestly, what is wrong with running terminal from emacs
2017-01-02T00:39:44Z aeth: pjb: The REPL is the perfect solution, although CL is an imperfect implementation of the perfect solution, so I still have to mix REPL use with sh use, at least for now.
2017-01-02T00:39:49Z pjb: hydan: running emacs in a terminal is perfectly good.
2017-01-02T00:40:14Z pjb: hydan: you can: chsh /usr/bin/clisp
2017-01-02T00:40:30Z pjb: Given how bad bash is, you should actually.
2017-01-02T00:40:40Z hydan: pjb: why would anyone do that when you can use eshell?
2017-01-02T00:40:55Z pjb: because eshell runs bash!
2017-01-02T00:41:04Z pjb: or does it?
2017-01-02T00:41:12Z hydan: pjb: shell does, eshell is elisp shell
2017-01-02T00:41:33Z hydan: pjb: term, ansi-term, shell, eshell... easy to get lost
2017-01-02T00:42:05Z boxxlab joined #lisp
2017-01-02T00:42:24Z hydan: pjb: I personally use eshell for most stuff and term for some escape sequence heavy stuff, have not felt a need to run a separate terminal in years.
2017-01-02T00:42:27Z aeth: pjb: For one, I want a terminal that is graphical. That is, I want to be able to "cat foo.png" and see a PNG instead of having to inefficiently "xdg-open foo.png" and wait for a bloated application to load (and hope that GIMP didn't somehow become the default again, because it's much slower and I don't need to edit it)
2017-01-02T00:42:41Z aeth: iirc, there is *one* obscure image format that's not used today that you can in fact cat in a normal(ish) terminal
2017-01-02T00:42:56Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-02T00:43:54Z aeth: The GIMP issue is actually another issue... Unix doesn't really distinguish between editors and viewers, and viewers are usually much more lightweight. A proper Superemacs would be able to distinguish between when I want to edit and when I want to view.
2017-01-02T00:43:54Z pjb: Yes, but images on a 300 b/s line are no good.
2017-01-02T00:44:20Z hydan: pjb: are you connecting to some rural police station? :p
2017-01-02T00:45:02Z aeth: pjb: A smart shell should know when it can display an image and when it cannot, based on the circumstances. If ssh is being used, it should know it can't... and it should by default loudly error rather than display the useless binary.
2017-01-02T00:45:21Z pjb: Yeah, right!
2017-01-02T00:46:15Z pjb: Anyways, time to go.
2017-01-02T00:46:20Z pjb quit (Quit: Be seeing you!)
2017-01-02T00:47:31Z aeth: emacs seems to know when it can show a PDF and when it can't (although when it can't iirc it just shows the raw contents of the PDF)
2017-01-02T00:48:01Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-02T00:49:16Z aeth: If I want to inline draw or display an image in my CL REPL, I want to do that. And if running it in a terminal, obviously it won't work. I think racket lets you do graphical stuff within the REPL?
2017-01-02T00:50:01Z hydan: aeth: well, now you are back to your wishlist :) time to get coding!
2017-01-02T00:50:02Z aeth: Although I could actually probably ssh -X and run the graphical interactive REPL, at least if I was on a LAN or something.
2017-01-02T00:56:00Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T00:58:33Z realityeuphoria joined #lisp
2017-01-02T01:00:19Z aeth: hydan: text/fonts are probably the things holding back a CL editor built on cl-sdl2 and cl-opengl rather than clx or a C/C++ toolkit.
2017-01-02T01:01:23Z aeth: I'd say text/fonts, physics, and networking were the weak spots of the CL side of the #lispgames ecosystem in 2016.
2017-01-02T01:02:02Z Zhivago: Perfect for smell based games.
2017-01-02T01:02:23Z Zhivago: Rather, smell based solo campaigns.
2017-01-02T01:02:49Z aeth: Well I suppose you can make a 2D platformer with what's there, since you can just take the text you need and make them bitmaps or something and for physics, you don't really want elaborate physics in a 2D platformer because that messes with the feel of the controls.
2017-01-02T01:03:11Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-02T01:04:34Z william_1 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T01:04:36Z william_1 is now known as williamyaoh
2017-01-02T01:06:56Z bigos quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-02T01:11:08Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T01:17:57Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T01:18:33Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-02T01:22:04Z klltkr|CLE quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T01:30:12Z hydan quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-02T01:33:19Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-02T01:37:43Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-02T01:41:54Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T01:43:41Z shifty joined #lisp
2017-01-02T01:50:05Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-02T01:57:08Z kevin joined #lisp
2017-01-02T01:57:32Z kevin is now known as Guest83932
2017-01-02T01:57:58Z Guest83932 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-02T02:00:51Z cons joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:01:42Z lexicall joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:02:01Z kevin1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:02:33Z kevin1999 left #lisp
2017-01-02T02:02:37Z kevin1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:03:12Z kevin1999 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T02:04:56Z kevin1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:05:32Z lexicall quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-02T02:06:19Z kevin1999 left #lisp
2017-01-02T02:06:31Z kevin1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:07:51Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-02T02:12:33Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:13:29Z cons quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-02T02:14:03Z Amplituhedron quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-02T02:14:43Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:15:15Z fying1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:15:23Z FALW joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:17:14Z FALW quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-02T02:17:48Z FALW joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:36:49Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T02:37:36Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:37:54Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-02T02:38:49Z ludston quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T02:40:23Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:41:54Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:42:32Z realityeuphoria quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T02:46:31Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:48:42Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T02:49:42Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-02T02:49:59Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:52:48Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T02:54:27Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:58:13Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-02T02:59:08Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T02:59:15Z ahungry`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T03:01:36Z dpg quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-02T03:04:31Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T03:04:59Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T03:06:04Z bluezone joined #lisp
2017-01-02T03:09:07Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-02T03:09:54Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T03:12:01Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-02T03:13:47Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T03:14:05Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T03:17:34Z mathrick_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T03:18:10Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T03:19:13Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-02T03:21:40Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T03:22:34Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T03:25:07Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T03:30:24Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T03:30:56Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T03:31:42Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-02T03:32:34Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T03:32:38Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-02T03:35:22Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-02T03:37:01Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T03:40:31Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T03:44:24Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-02T03:45:02Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T03:45:21Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T03:47:59Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T03:48:43Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T03:48:47Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-02T03:51:05Z kevin1999 left #lisp
2017-01-02T03:56:41Z Tex_Nick quit (Quit: In Linux, We Trust)
2017-01-02T03:57:25Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T03:58:33Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T04:03:05Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T04:04:28Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T04:09:59Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T04:10:32Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T04:12:51Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-02T04:16:13Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-02T04:16:46Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T04:17:56Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T04:27:43Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T04:28:46Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T04:29:16Z mathrick_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-02T04:30:37Z mathrick_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T04:34:08Z travv0 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T04:39:20Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-02T04:41:59Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-02T04:42:04Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T04:42:51Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T04:44:29Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-02T04:45:56Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-02T04:51:16Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-02T04:52:52Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T04:54:58Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-02T04:59:46Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T05:00:17Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T05:00:56Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-02T05:03:09Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-02T05:03:44Z mathrick_ is now known as mathrick
2017-01-02T05:04:03Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T05:04:16Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-02T05:06:03Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T05:06:41Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T05:10:41Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-02T05:11:43Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T05:12:05Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T05:15:20Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T05:18:57Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T05:20:06Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T05:21:26Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T05:25:14Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T05:27:53Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T05:31:54Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T05:32:56Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T05:37:06Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T05:39:06Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T05:41:50Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-02T05:43:03Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T05:43:03Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T05:43:09Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-02T05:43:36Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T05:47:44Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-02T05:49:18Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T05:50:25Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T05:51:06Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T05:52:30Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T05:57:14Z teggi joined #lisp
2017-01-02T05:57:33Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T05:59:22Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T05:59:26Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-02T06:01:51Z farzad joined #lisp
2017-01-02T06:04:52Z farzad: anyone knows about a reporting library in common lisp? im looking for something like Pentaho or Jasper Reports for java or Crystal Reports for C#
2017-01-02T06:07:54Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-02T06:09:10Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T06:10:29Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-02T06:13:24Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-02T06:14:33Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T06:16:33Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T06:17:28Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-02T06:17:51Z Fade: ected
2017-01-02T06:18:16Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T06:22:38Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-02T06:34:52Z Amplituhedron quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T06:36:06Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T06:40:04Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T06:40:20Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-02T06:41:15Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T06:45:58Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T06:50:45Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T06:54:50Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-02T06:56:09Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T06:57:29Z FALW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T06:57:32Z farzad quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-02T06:58:12Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-02T06:58:21Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T07:08:29Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-02T07:08:29Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-02T07:14:19Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T07:15:11Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T07:19:27Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-02T07:20:06Z kammd joined #lisp
2017-01-02T07:20:38Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T07:20:47Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-02T07:27:36Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-02T07:32:10Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-02T07:34:48Z devon quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-02T07:34:52Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T07:37:41Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-02T07:39:38Z impulse joined #lisp
2017-01-02T07:43:52Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-02T07:44:59Z zeissoctopus joined #lisp
2017-01-02T07:47:06Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-02T07:47:59Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-02T07:48:29Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-02T07:55:06Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T07:55:29Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-02T08:04:30Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T08:05:23Z krasnal quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-02T08:05:32Z zeissoctopus quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-02T08:06:09Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-02T08:07:37Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T08:08:01Z ragepandemic quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T08:09:28Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T08:09:44Z ragepandemic joined #lisp
2017-01-02T08:11:24Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-02T08:11:26Z grouzen joined #lisp
2017-01-02T08:12:00Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2017-01-02T08:12:38Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T08:16:28Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T08:20:11Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-02T08:23:05Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-02T08:26:01Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T08:26:52Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T08:29:08Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-02T08:33:04Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-02T08:36:54Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-02T08:42:30Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T08:43:41Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-02T08:46:40Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-02T08:49:45Z ak5 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T08:50:04Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T08:50:53Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T08:55:13Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-02T08:55:32Z dim quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-02T08:59:52Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T09:00:42Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-02T09:01:52Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T09:03:37Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-02T09:05:18Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T09:09:31Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2017-01-02T09:09:43Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T09:11:54Z ak51 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-02T09:14:46Z bluezone quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-02T09:21:14Z Guest27433 is now known as kushal
2017-01-02T09:21:20Z kushal quit (Changing host)
2017-01-02T09:21:20Z kushal joined #lisp
2017-01-02T09:23:16Z cesdo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-02T09:30:09Z hydan joined #lisp
2017-01-02T09:30:50Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-02T09:32:24Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T09:38:06Z shifty joined #lisp
2017-01-02T09:39:25Z radioninja_work joined #lisp
2017-01-02T09:39:59Z krwq joined #lisp
2017-01-02T09:40:07Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-02T09:46:32Z krwq: hey, i'm having some problem with log4slime. when i put something which loads log4slime inside my .sbclrc (i.e. quickload asdf system with dep on log4slime) and run slime it doesn't print anything when running from a thread. when running directly from console it does print properly on stdout or typing log:info directly in slime's repl works too. when commenting out line which loads log4slime it works again after res
2017-01-02T09:46:32Z krwq: tarting emacs
2017-01-02T09:54:34Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-02T09:56:39Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T09:59:24Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T09:59:44Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-02T10:04:03Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-02T10:11:13Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-02T10:12:36Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T10:12:49Z Amplituhedron quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T10:13:39Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T10:20:02Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-02T10:23:24Z krwq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T10:26:29Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T10:26:44Z setheus quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-02T10:28:42Z setheus joined #lisp
2017-01-02T10:32:32Z SCHAAP137 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T10:35:03Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T10:35:14Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-02T10:36:42Z teggi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T10:37:24Z teggi joined #lisp
2017-01-02T10:42:13Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-02T10:48:29Z gg joined #lisp
2017-01-02T10:48:53Z gg is now known as Guest8117
2017-01-02T10:51:20Z fying1999 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-02T10:51:39Z mathi_aihtam quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T10:52:19Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-02T10:52:40Z mathi_aihtam quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-02T10:54:16Z teggi quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-02T11:02:39Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:04:00Z klltkr|CLE joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:07:35Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-02T11:17:22Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T11:22:46Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T11:22:50Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:23:21Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T11:25:07Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T11:27:09Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:29:06Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:31:04Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:33:24Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-02T11:34:17Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:35:02Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T11:38:04Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T11:38:16Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2017-01-02T11:38:51Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:44:25Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:49:29Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:50:13Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-02T11:53:34Z glamas joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:54:12Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T11:54:20Z Tex_Nick joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:55:30Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:56:09Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:57:15Z danieli quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T11:57:52Z danieli joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:59:25Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-02T11:59:49Z opt9 quit (Quit: Bye bye)
2017-01-02T12:00:53Z danieli quit (Changing host)
2017-01-02T12:00:53Z danieli joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:01:27Z opt9 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:02:45Z glamas quit (Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com)
2017-01-02T12:04:13Z forgottenpurple joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:05:27Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:06:27Z forgottenpurple_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T12:07:23Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-02T12:08:43Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:08:47Z forgottenpurple quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T12:16:06Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:18:01Z svetlyak_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:18:01Z svetlyak40wt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T12:18:01Z svetlyak_ is now known as svetlyak40wt_
2017-01-02T12:26:51Z krasnal quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-02T12:27:29Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:28:53Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:30:16Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:32:43Z `JRG: hello lispers
2017-01-02T12:32:53Z sjl quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2017-01-02T12:34:11Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:34:16Z jackdaniel: o/
2017-01-02T12:36:38Z `JRG: I have a little question for you all, don't you think that if by changing the EOL used in a file (e.g. via unix2dos) the file does not correctly compile anymore that's a tiny violation of the principle of least astonishment?
2017-01-02T12:36:55Z `JRG: what's your opinion
2017-01-02T12:37:33Z sjl quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-02T12:37:49Z flip214_: `JRG: well, each system has its EOL definition... if you violate that, you might need to tell every program using such a file about this standards violation.
2017-01-02T12:37:58Z phadthai: I wonder if it's also the case on windows, where it could be considered strange
2017-01-02T12:38:00Z flip214_: and most won't help you to work around that...
2017-01-02T12:38:19Z flip214_: that's why tar, zip, etc. have a "text mode" for extraction, to get the local EOL
2017-01-02T12:38:32Z phadthai: true
2017-01-02T12:39:11Z jackdaniel: either way I think that while characters shouldn't influence compilation (unless we talk about languages like python)
2017-01-02T12:39:19Z jackdaniel: s/while characters/white characters/
2017-01-02T12:39:30Z `JRG: true
2017-01-02T12:39:35Z `JRG: that's my point exactly
2017-01-02T12:39:43Z jackdaniel: `JRG: what is your CL implementation?
2017-01-02T12:39:46Z `JRG: problem is we have ~ newline
2017-01-02T12:39:51Z phadthai: yes I don't see why ignoring extra CR at end of lines could hurt anything in this case
2017-01-02T12:40:04Z `JRG: sbcl
2017-01-02T12:40:32Z jackdaniel: and it doesn't work on which OS? what is EOL atm?
2017-01-02T12:40:41Z `JRG: quicklisp.lisp is full of those ~#\Newline format directives
2017-01-02T12:40:51Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:41:02Z `JRG: and my git setup *loves* to convert LF files to CRLF
2017-01-02T12:41:12Z `JRG: actually breaking quicklisp.lisp
2017-01-02T12:41:57Z `JRG: I would expect #\Newline to be CRLF under Windows
2017-01-02T12:41:58Z sjl quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-02T12:42:03Z jackdaniel: weird stuff indeed – maybe ask #sbcl? there may be some important rationale behind this
2017-01-02T12:42:15Z `JRG: but apparently it is not so with sbcl
2017-01-02T12:42:21Z jackdaniel: behavior which we don't know
2017-01-02T12:42:40Z `JRG: that makes sense, thanks
2017-01-02T12:45:13Z jackdaniel: btw, didn't know about POLA was defined, thanks
2017-01-02T12:45:18Z jackdaniel: s/about/that/
2017-01-02T12:45:43Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:49:03Z jmignault joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:49:46Z scymtym: `JRG: the inability to decode CRLF as #\Newline is a shortcoming of SBCL's current external-format implementation. there is some work-in-progress to improve the situation but nothing finished yet
2017-01-02T12:50:44Z sjl quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2017-01-02T12:51:40Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:51:49Z sjl quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-02T12:52:19Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-02T12:53:23Z `JRG: scymtym: thanks
2017-01-02T12:53:42Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T12:54:01Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-02T13:02:14Z jmignault quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-02T13:06:12Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-02T13:07:22Z Moosef joined #lisp
2017-01-02T13:16:42Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T13:19:22Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T13:20:04Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T13:27:36Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-02T13:29:17Z Blukunfando quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-02T13:31:34Z jmignault joined #lisp
2017-01-02T13:32:41Z cesdo joined #lisp
2017-01-02T13:35:07Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T13:36:21Z jmignault quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-02T13:36:40Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-02T13:38:30Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-02T13:39:17Z mvilleneuve left #lisp
2017-01-02T13:42:56Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-02T13:43:07Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T13:45:20Z nowhere_man quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T13:46:34Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-02T13:46:34Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-02T13:52:38Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T13:59:01Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-02T13:59:54Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:00:11Z pierpa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T14:00:47Z fying1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:01:06Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:02:30Z Guest8117 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T14:04:13Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-02T14:09:13Z Xach joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:12:29Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:13:26Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:13:57Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-02T14:13:58Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:17:08Z nowhere_man quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T14:17:35Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:17:54Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:19:45Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:21:28Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:24:43Z nowhereman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T14:30:51Z zeissoctopus joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:30:59Z jmignault joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:31:53Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:32:26Z fying1999 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T14:32:36Z fying1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:40:02Z unbalanced joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:42:18Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:43:03Z phoe_: I have a function declared like (DEFUN FN (&KEY FOO BAR BAZ QUUX ...) ...)
2017-01-02T14:43:34Z jackdaniel: (fn :... 3) ;-> 3
2017-01-02T14:43:48Z phoe_: I want to provide default values for the &KEY arguments, but I do not want them to show inside the minibuffer when I make a call of that function
2017-01-02T14:44:09Z phoe_: Mostly because the default values are either too long or they're (error "..." ...)
2017-01-02T14:44:29Z phoe_: Is there any recommended style or macro for taking care of such default values outside the lambda-list?
2017-01-02T14:44:54Z phoe_: Like, a series of (UNLESS FOO (SETF FOO ...)) in the beginning of the function?
2017-01-02T14:45:06Z phoe_: This does the job, but looks rather ugly.
2017-01-02T14:45:40Z andrey` joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:45:50Z andrey` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T14:46:12Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:46:23Z beach: phoe_: You could use &rest arguments, and then call a local function like (apply local-fun arguments).  The local function would have the default values.
2017-01-02T14:46:42Z beach: That way would also get the SUPPLIED-P parameters right.
2017-01-02T14:46:43Z jackdaniel: (defun yyy (&rest args &key bah) (apply 'xxx args))
2017-01-02T14:46:59Z jackdaniel: (defun xxx (&key (bah 4)) …)
2017-01-02T14:47:03Z flip214_: phoe_: or write a macro to do a series of  `(LET ((foo (or foo ,default))) ,@ body)
2017-01-02T14:47:10Z sjl: unfortunately that also loses the names of the keyword args in the lambda-list
2017-01-02T14:47:19Z beach: Why?
2017-01-02T14:47:34Z sjl: the lambda-list is now (&rest args) instead of (&key foo bar ...)
2017-01-02T14:47:37Z jackdaniel: phoe_: see my ↑ paste
2017-01-02T14:47:43Z phoe_: jackdaniel: yes, I see.
2017-01-02T14:47:45Z beach: sjl: What makes you think that?
2017-01-02T14:47:46Z sjl: the lambda-list of the function the user is intended to call
2017-01-02T14:47:49Z jackdaniel: sjl: it may be (&rest args &key a b c)
2017-01-02T14:48:07Z sjl: oh you're including the &key AND the &rest
2017-01-02T14:48:24Z phoe_: shouldn't &KEY come before &REST?
2017-01-02T14:48:31Z jackdaniel: no
2017-01-02T14:48:33Z phoe_: oh, wait
2017-01-02T14:48:40Z phoe_: this way &REST captures the key args.
2017-01-02T14:48:42Z beach: sjl: Of course.  Otherwise, you wouldn't get the keyword arguments.
2017-01-02T14:49:11Z beach: phoe_: Standard trick.
2017-01-02T14:49:23Z phoe_: beach: I saw it once or twice, but I never got to use it on my own.
2017-01-02T14:49:24Z jackdaniel: phoe_: declare all key arguments as ignored and apply args
2017-01-02T14:49:31Z jackdaniel: to have everything square
2017-01-02T14:49:34Z phoe_: jackdaniel: ooh
2017-01-02T14:49:38Z phoe_: nifty
2017-01-02T14:49:39Z phoe_: I see.
2017-01-02T14:50:01Z beach: phoe_: The AMOP is full of that kind of stuff.
2017-01-02T14:50:16Z phoe_: beach: I'll read it as time allows, yes.
2017-01-02T14:50:31Z jackdaniel has to buy amop some day
2017-01-02T14:50:31Z bigos quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T14:50:45Z beach: I learned a lot of such tricks from 1. the CLIM II specification and 2. the AMOP.
2017-01-02T14:52:49Z phoe_: CLIM II, yet another book to read.
2017-01-02T14:53:06Z jackdaniel: clim II isn't a book
2017-01-02T14:53:12Z phoe_: uh
2017-01-02T14:53:21Z phoe_: I meant the spec
2017-01-02T14:54:45Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-02T14:55:14Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-02T14:56:17Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T15:01:51Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-02T15:02:03Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T15:03:47Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-02T15:04:32Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2017-01-02T15:08:56Z zeissoctopus quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T15:10:22Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-02T15:11:23Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-02T15:11:56Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-02T15:12:07Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T15:13:42Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-02T15:16:35Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-02T15:16:44Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-02T15:16:49Z shka quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-02T15:19:13Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-02T15:19:28Z phoe_: jackdaniel: beach: does this &REST ... &KEY ... thing also work with DEFMETHOD INITIALIZE-INSTANCE?
2017-01-02T15:20:11Z phoe_: Like, can I declare a method on INITIALIZE-INSTANCE that will take &rest args &key foo bar baz, and I can ignore all the keys and apply a function on args?
2017-01-02T15:20:12Z jackdaniel: why wouldn't it?
2017-01-02T15:20:33Z phoe_: jackdaniel: I'm being cautious when stepping on CLOS grounds.
2017-01-02T15:20:50Z jackdaniel: I think that a good strategy is to try things if they work ;-)
2017-01-02T15:21:05Z phoe_: :P
2017-01-02T15:21:13Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-02T15:22:31Z jackdaniel: regarding defmethod (initialize-instance already has it), don't forget to declare &allow-other-keys in defgeneric
2017-01-02T15:22:47Z jackdaniel: for instance (defgeneric foo (a b &rest args &key &allow-other-keys))
2017-01-02T15:23:30Z jackdaniel: if you plan to allow extending key-arg set
2017-01-02T15:27:55Z phoe_: jackdaniel: I remember that one.
2017-01-02T15:27:57Z phoe_: thanks!
2017-01-02T15:29:03Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-02T15:29:53Z Moosef quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-02T15:33:00Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-02T15:34:34Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-02T15:45:46Z fying1999 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T15:50:20Z jmignault quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-02T15:50:27Z phoe_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-02T15:56:06Z bigos quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T15:56:52Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-02T15:58:33Z Posterdati: hi
2017-01-02T15:58:53Z Posterdati: did anyone solved the static vector problem with antik?
2017-01-02T16:01:52Z tharugrim joined #lisp
2017-01-02T16:03:26Z Posterdati: :(
2017-01-02T16:08:51Z H4ns: phoe: i would generally try to avoid &allow-other-keys - if you need to call a function with an argument list that includes keys which the called function might not know, you can also use the universal :allow-other-keys argument when _calling_ the function.  that way, you retain the checks for invalid keyword arguments.
2017-01-02T16:09:57Z beach: I second that.  Use &allow-other-keys only when it is absolutely necessary.  It is error prone in that it no longer catches typos in keyword arguments.
2017-01-02T16:13:32Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-02T16:19:43Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-02T16:22:57Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T16:23:45Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-02T16:28:17Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T16:30:27Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-02T16:32:04Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T16:33:15Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T16:34:02Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-02T16:36:15Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T16:36:48Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T16:36:49Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-02T16:40:44Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T16:42:20Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T16:42:47Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-02T16:43:59Z listp quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-02T16:46:01Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2017-01-02T16:46:56Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-02T16:47:11Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-02T16:58:04Z listp joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:05:24Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:07:01Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:08:32Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:08:45Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T17:08:55Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:09:24Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:12:30Z ragepandemic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T17:13:25Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:13:28Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:13:48Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:13:53Z listp quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:14:03Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:17:15Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:22:16Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:24:21Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:24:57Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:27:20Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:29:50Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:31:15Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:31:35Z zacts joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:36:55Z ryanwatk` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T17:37:08Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:37:45Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:40:52Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:43:28Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:47:41Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:52:32Z rvirding quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:52:36Z l1x quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:52:48Z lancetw quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:52:57Z LyndsySimon quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:53:11Z gz_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:53:11Z mjl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:53:16Z angular_mike_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:53:16Z makufiru quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:53:16Z asedeno quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:53:16Z unrahul quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:53:17Z banjiewen quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:53:17Z velvetcore quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:53:22Z kilimanjaro quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:55:14Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:55:49Z ghostlight quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-02T17:55:56Z velvetcore joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:55:57Z rvirding joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:56:13Z asedeno joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:56:41Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:56:55Z lancetw joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:56:57Z l1x joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:57:24Z unrahul joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:57:40Z mjl joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:58:12Z banjiewen joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:58:40Z LyndsySimon joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:59:21Z ghostlight joined #lisp
2017-01-02T17:59:47Z gz_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:00:04Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-02T18:00:32Z makufiru joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:01:49Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T18:01:59Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:06:17Z listp joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:07:08Z kilimanjaro joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:08:41Z phoe: beach: I only use it where required, so basically, in DEFMETHOD INITIALIZE-INSTANCE.
2017-01-02T18:15:00Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:16:08Z ryanwatk` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T18:16:16Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:16:57Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:17:14Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:17:56Z k4rtik quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T18:18:36Z antoszka quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-02T18:18:55Z emaczen: How can I get the reader to evaluate (read-from-string "(a . b)") ==> (A |.| B)
2017-01-02T18:19:22Z emaczen: I tried set-macro-character nad just returning '\. from the lambda, but that didn't work...
2017-01-02T18:19:37Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-02T18:20:27Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:21:13Z Bike: i think dot syntax is an intrinsic part of how ( works.
2017-01-02T18:21:13Z jackdaniel: modifying reader to treat . differently won't be portable. You need to do something like replacing all standalone "." to some gensym in the string
2017-01-02T18:21:19Z jackdaniel: then read from it
2017-01-02T18:21:25Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:21:35Z jackdaniel: and after that replace all matching gensymed symbols with |.|
2017-01-02T18:21:52Z listp quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-02T18:22:57Z jackdaniel: (replace-sym '|.| *my-gensym* (read-from-string (replace-string (symbol-name *my-gensym*) "." my-string)))
2017-01-02T18:23:03Z jackdaniel: in pseudocode
2017-01-02T18:23:37Z jurov: or convert the cons to list with |.| in the middle after reading?
2017-01-02T18:24:25Z jackdaniel: you don't know if there is dot, I think that he expects (read-from-string "(a b)") to return (a b)
2017-01-02T18:24:28Z pjb: emaczen: what Bike said means that you need to write a reader macro for #\( !
2017-01-02T18:25:25Z Bike: maybe also backquote. dunno.
2017-01-02T18:25:30Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:28:08Z jurov: it can be combined, no? wrap reader macro for #\( , if the original macro returns cons (not list), fix it
2017-01-02T18:29:55Z jackdaniel: "(1 2 . nil)" and "(1 2)" – how will you differentiate these two *after* reading?
2017-01-02T18:30:34Z jurov: I will document it as corner case.
2017-01-02T18:31:05Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:31:43Z jackdaniel: and declare, that your method breaks on such case?
2017-01-02T18:32:12Z jurov: Yes. In keeping with "try the simplest thing that could work" principle.
2017-01-02T18:32:28Z emaczen: Okay, I think I'm just going to replace symbols like jackdaniel said originally
2017-01-02T18:32:36Z jurov: Depends on what emaczen is going to read, of course.
2017-01-02T18:33:10Z jackdaniel was whispering "pick mine, pick mine" for good 2 minutes already \o/
2017-01-02T18:33:22Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-02T18:33:52Z jurov: lol
2017-01-02T18:34:00Z pjb: jackdaniel: |.| is a perfectly good symbol, there's no need to go thru intermediary gensymed symbol.
2017-01-02T18:34:32Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T18:34:56Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:35:00Z jurov: Is it desirable that reading (a . ( b . ( c . nil))) yields something completely different than (a b c)?
2017-01-02T18:35:18Z jackdaniel: yes, but I'm not sure if changing reader macro for #\( will work (I'm not saying it won't, I'm just not sure if its conformant, you know spec way better than I)
2017-01-02T18:38:18Z Bike: well you can do whatever the hell you want if it's your own readtable
2017-01-02T18:38:27Z tharugrim quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-02T18:45:03Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:50:00Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T18:50:11Z kammd quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-02T18:54:15Z rebelshrug joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:54:56Z ragepandemic joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:56:17Z rotty quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T18:58:39Z rotty joined #lisp
2017-01-02T18:59:58Z cesdo left #lisp
2017-01-02T19:01:17Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T19:03:33Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:07:29Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T19:10:56Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T19:10:59Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:11:09Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-02T19:13:20Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-02T19:14:36Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:15:48Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T19:21:15Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-02T19:22:17Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:22:43Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:23:27Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:23:29Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:24:13Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-02T19:24:16Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T19:24:16Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-02T19:26:56Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:27:57Z listp joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:31:23Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:32:11Z jebacja joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:39:38Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:42:43Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:45:40Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:49:12Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:49:48Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:50:47Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-02T19:54:50Z jebacja quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T19:55:55Z jebacja joined #lisp
2017-01-02T19:57:41Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:00:04Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:00:19Z sellout- quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T20:01:35Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:03:43Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:05:30Z angular_mike_ joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:07:20Z dsaddd joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:07:34Z jebacja quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-02T20:09:17Z Walex quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-02T20:13:55Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:14:21Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:15:14Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-02T20:16:42Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T20:16:56Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:18:53Z wladca_robakow joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:19:02Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T20:19:12Z dsaddd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T20:20:02Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T20:20:47Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:22:03Z sellout-1 joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:23:41Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-02T20:25:08Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:25:32Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:28:37Z wladca_robakow quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T20:28:51Z grouzen quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T20:29:42Z foom joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:30:52Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:31:03Z jebacja joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:31:22Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T20:32:45Z jebacja quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T20:32:55Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:33:03Z jebacja joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:35:49Z antoszka joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:38:47Z jebacja quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T20:39:38Z svetlyak40wt_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T20:40:04Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-02T20:40:11Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T20:40:31Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T20:41:10Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:44:05Z tmtwd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T20:46:12Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:46:20Z ^hi joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:47:02Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T20:49:06Z wondaria joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:50:02Z dsaddd joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:50:03Z wondaria: hey lispers! I know, you are clever. Could you help me please to invent the name for IT company? Thanks.
2017-01-02T20:51:42Z ^hi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T20:53:19Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T20:54:01Z ^hi joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:56:17Z dsaddd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T20:57:33Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:57:47Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-02T20:58:57Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T21:00:27Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:00:38Z ^hi quit
2017-01-02T21:00:55Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:02:49Z drot quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-02T21:04:51Z wondaria left #lisp
2017-01-02T21:07:17Z ^hi joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:12:04Z ragepandemic quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T21:15:37Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-02T21:15:40Z sword joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:16:09Z blackwolf joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:16:47Z cpape joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:18:58Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:21:03Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:24:52Z _death: Microsoft
2017-01-02T21:25:35Z aeth: For Microcomputer Software? Brilliant.
2017-01-02T21:25:45Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:25:46Z wildlander quit (Changing host)
2017-01-02T21:25:46Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:26:44Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-02T21:28:47Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T21:28:48Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T21:30:58Z sellout-1 quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-02T21:31:40Z papachan quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-02T21:32:46Z blackwolf quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T21:35:20Z Moosef joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:35:28Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:36:42Z ^hi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T21:36:58Z JuanDaugherty wonders about wondaria
2017-01-02T21:37:24Z JuanDaugherty: "microcomputer" must sound funny to the average doer of computer programming of this time
2017-01-02T21:37:57Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T21:39:27Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:39:49Z ^hi joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:41:10Z Bike: yeah, sizewise we're on nanocomputers, so nanosoft
2017-01-02T21:41:20Z dsaddd joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:41:34Z Bike: but that seems to taken by a company in karachi, so i guess stick with microsoft.
2017-01-02T21:41:50Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T21:42:13Z dsaddd quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T21:42:46Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:42:59Z dsaddd joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:43:24Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:44:22Z ^hi quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-02T21:45:16Z tmtwd quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-02T21:47:31Z dsaddd quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-02T21:47:50Z ^hi joined #lisp
2017-01-02T21:48:28Z ^hi left #lisp
2017-01-02T21:50:14Z jurov: i'd say more like yottasoft
2017-01-02T21:50:29Z jurov: that's where we're heading
2017-01-02T21:55:45Z Bike: you want to make a transistor smaller than an electron?
2017-01-02T21:58:20Z kjak quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T21:59:01Z kjak joined #lisp
2017-01-02T22:00:30Z drot joined #lisp
2017-01-02T22:04:21Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T22:07:33Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T22:09:10Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-02T22:13:32Z pjb: emaczen: sorry for the delay, I've been sidetracked, but here it is: http://paste.lisp.org/display/335564
2017-01-02T22:19:12Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-02T22:20:04Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-02T22:21:42Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T22:22:43Z klltkr|CLE quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-02T22:37:28Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-02T22:43:40Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-02T22:43:46Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T22:43:46Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T22:43:58Z easye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T22:45:30Z specbot joined #lisp
2017-01-02T22:45:30Z minion joined #lisp
2017-01-02T22:46:13Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-02T22:46:47Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2017-01-02T22:50:43Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-02T22:51:08Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-02T22:53:40Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T22:53:42Z listp quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T22:53:48Z listp joined #lisp
2017-01-02T22:55:03Z slavka quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T22:57:06Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-02T22:59:09Z krasnal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-02T22:59:42Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-02T23:04:18Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T23:04:18Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-02T23:08:21Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T23:10:00Z bigos quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-02T23:10:12Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T23:11:42Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-02T23:12:05Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-02T23:12:50Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-02T23:13:09Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-02T23:13:28Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-02T23:19:05Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-02T23:24:50Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-02T23:32:01Z trocado joined #lisp
2017-01-02T23:36:55Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T23:43:13Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-02T23:44:42Z Xach joined #lisp
2017-01-02T23:48:39Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-02T23:52:44Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-02T23:54:01Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-02T23:58:49Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-03T00:06:20Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-03T00:09:57Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-03T00:09:57Z Trystam quit (Changing host)
2017-01-03T00:09:57Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-03T00:10:53Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T00:12:30Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T00:12:52Z Trystam is now known as Tristam
2017-01-03T00:17:12Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-03T00:19:34Z shifty joined #lisp
2017-01-03T00:20:19Z kevin1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T00:21:23Z MrBismuth quit (Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIqYqtR1lY -- Suicide is Painless - Johnny Mandel)
2017-01-03T00:22:49Z Tex_Nick quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-03T00:24:20Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-03T00:27:08Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-03T00:28:19Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-03T00:30:08Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T00:41:34Z fying1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T00:44:20Z kevin1999 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-03T00:47:38Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T00:47:44Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-03T00:47:48Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-03T00:49:52Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T00:52:22Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T00:54:23Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-03T00:55:21Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-03T00:56:32Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-03T00:57:23Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-03T00:57:53Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-03T01:00:04Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:00:07Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T01:00:17Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:00:25Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T01:02:19Z kjak quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T01:03:22Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-03T01:03:34Z kjak joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:04:23Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-03T01:07:59Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:10:41Z JoshYoshi joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:12:36Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T01:13:11Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:13:50Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:14:31Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T01:14:31Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-03T01:15:59Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T01:17:04Z fying1999 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T01:20:08Z rumbler31 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T01:21:02Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:21:36Z yrdz joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:26:58Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:32:55Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-03T01:33:11Z antonv joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:33:22Z phf joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:33:42Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T01:33:53Z antonv: who knows where uffi sources are located?
2017-01-03T01:33:59Z antonv: uffi.b9.com doesn't work
2017-01-03T01:34:30Z Bike: uffi is obsolete, i think
2017-01-03T01:34:35Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:34:42Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:34:44Z Bike: but uffi.kpe.io seems to have it
2017-01-03T01:34:44Z antonv: quicklisp-projects refer to kmr-git uffi - you ned to kmr-git address
2017-01-03T01:35:02Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-03T01:35:25Z antonv: Bike: yes, outdated but I need to check something. Thanks for the link.
2017-01-03T01:36:05Z Xach: uffi is still used for a few projects
2017-01-03T01:36:35Z loke: Hello Xach!
2017-01-03T01:36:41Z Xach: hi loke
2017-01-03T01:36:42Z loke: Happy new year all
2017-01-03T01:36:48Z Xach: and also with you
2017-01-03T01:37:00Z loke: Xach: You going to ELS?
2017-01-03T01:37:11Z Xach: loke: Not unless something extraordinary happens
2017-01-03T01:38:21Z loke: I see.
2017-01-03T01:38:40Z antonv: Xach, here - https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/blob/master/qlc-meta/blacklist.txt - we read:
2017-01-03T01:38:51Z antonv:  prefer the real UFFI to CFFI's UFFI - some things just don't compile with it.
2017-01-03T01:39:10Z antonv: What if I checkout CFFI to quicklisp/local-projects - what UFFI is used?
2017-01-03T01:39:32Z antonv: The real one or CFFI's UFFI?
2017-01-03T01:40:07Z Xach: antonv: if cffi has an uffi.asd, it is cffi's
2017-01-03T01:40:42Z antonv: cffi/uffi-compat/uffi.asd
2017-01-03T01:40:44Z Xach: (ql:where-is-system "uffi") will show the path
2017-01-03T01:40:52Z Xach: that tells where asdf finds it
2017-01-03T01:41:03Z antonv: ok. how to disable that - remove the .asd file?
2017-01-03T01:41:07Z Xach: antonv: yes.
2017-01-03T01:42:10Z loke: Xach: I thought there was a SOW for the QL work you'd be doing for the fundraiser money? I was sure with was on the QL web page, but I can't find it. Was I dreaming?
2017-01-03T01:42:16Z JoshYoshi quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T01:42:33Z Xach: loke: there is the talk i gave in london outlining the out-of-beta tasks
2017-01-03T01:42:41Z Xach: loke: there is no formal SOW though
2017-01-03T01:42:58Z coyo quit (Quit: Heaven is not a place, Bartleby, it's being with people who love you.)
2017-01-03T01:43:40Z loke: Xach: IIRC, one of the points was to make sure the downloads are signed, correct?
2017-01-03T01:44:26Z Xach: loke: yes - well, a file of cryptographic digests is signed, and used to validate downloaded archives.
2017-01-03T01:46:01Z kevin1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:46:03Z loke: Xach: "is", as in: "it already exists"?
2017-01-03T01:46:45Z Xach: loke: no, "is", as in, "this is the design"
2017-01-03T01:46:51Z loke: Ah :-)
2017-01-03T01:48:02Z Petit_Dejeuner: One day we'll be cool.
2017-01-03T01:48:16Z Petit_Dejeuner: Roswel will have more scripts than CPAN.
2017-01-03T01:48:17Z phf left #lisp
2017-01-03T01:48:25Z kevin1999 left #lisp
2017-01-03T01:48:26Z Petit_Dejeuner: Quicklisp will have cryptographic hashes.
2017-01-03T01:48:37Z Petit_Dejeuner: ...and the standard will be updated to be more like Ruby/C++
2017-01-03T01:48:51Z Petit_Dejeuner: Victory.
2017-01-03T01:49:36Z antonv: Xach, after removing the .asd file  (ql:where-is-system "uffi") fails with "Failed to find the TRUENAME of /home/testgrid/quicklisp-asdf3/local-projects/cffi/uffi-compat/uffi.asd: No such file or directory"
2017-01-03T01:49:52Z antonv: The SBCL was started _after_ file was removed
2017-01-03T01:50:00Z antonv: someting needs to be reindexed?
2017-01-03T01:51:24Z Xach: antonv: yes, (ql:register-local-projects) will reset the index
2017-01-03T01:52:17Z antonv: ok (I already fixed that by moving cffi to other directory, starting SBCL once, then moving cffi back to local-projects and starting SBCL again)
2017-01-03T01:55:21Z unbalanced quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-03T01:55:54Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:58:20Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T01:59:53Z Moosef quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-03T02:00:22Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T02:04:18Z xrash joined #lisp
2017-01-03T02:08:19Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T02:08:31Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T02:08:32Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-03T02:13:11Z antonv: who knows how to build uiop from asdf source repository?
2017-01-03T02:14:44Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-03T02:15:24Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-03T02:16:11Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T02:16:50Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T02:16:51Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-03T02:26:10Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T02:26:14Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T02:28:35Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-03T02:30:14Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-03T02:31:06Z bigos quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T02:32:02Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T02:39:18Z reepca quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T02:39:31Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-03T02:43:50Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-03T02:48:52Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-03T02:56:23Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T02:59:14Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:04:22Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:05:29Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:05:34Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T03:05:35Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-03T03:07:55Z trocado quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-03T03:08:34Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:12:40Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T03:12:58Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T03:13:26Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T03:16:25Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T03:16:25Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:16:26Z hydan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T03:18:25Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-03T03:18:45Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-03T03:25:24Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-03T03:26:08Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:34:45Z himmAllRight quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T03:34:45Z bigos quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T03:34:45Z quazimodo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T03:34:45Z Xach quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T03:34:45Z arescorpio quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T03:34:45Z antonv quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T03:34:45Z shdeng quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T03:34:45Z Tristam quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T03:34:54Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:34:58Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:34:58Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:34:58Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:34:58Z Xach joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:35:01Z antonv joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:35:05Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:35:05Z Tristam joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:36:39Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:38:43Z ghostlight quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T03:43:43Z ghostlight joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:46:09Z groovy2shoes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-03T03:47:43Z karswell` joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:48:01Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:48:04Z himmAllRight quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T03:52:18Z karswell` is now known as karswell
2017-01-03T03:57:13Z MrBismuth joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:57:17Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-03T03:57:33Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-03T04:02:14Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T04:07:03Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T04:10:11Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-03T04:10:16Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-03T04:13:51Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-03T04:32:07Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-03T04:32:36Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T04:34:29Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-03T04:36:06Z shdeng quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T04:39:24Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-03T04:40:56Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-03T04:47:10Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-03T04:48:08Z bigos quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T04:50:19Z arescorpio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T04:55:58Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-03T04:58:30Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T05:05:36Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T05:06:30Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-03T05:11:53Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T05:13:23Z MrBismuth is now known as MrBusiness
2017-01-03T05:15:32Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-03T05:22:27Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T05:23:50Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-03T05:28:03Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T05:28:30Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-03T05:29:20Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-03T05:30:17Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T05:30:18Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-03T05:34:45Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T05:37:15Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-03T05:44:34Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-03T05:48:29Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-03T05:57:41Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T06:00:57Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T06:04:29Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-03T06:11:29Z H4ns: good morning beach!
2017-01-03T06:12:23Z d4ryus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T06:13:34Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-03T06:15:57Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T06:20:30Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T06:21:55Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T06:22:21Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-03T06:22:26Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-03T06:22:28Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-03T06:22:28Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T06:32:31Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-03T06:39:19Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-03T06:43:38Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-03T06:50:44Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T06:51:09Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-03T06:52:42Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-03T06:59:10Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-03T07:09:13Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-03T07:16:10Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T07:16:23Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T07:18:18Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T07:20:06Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-03T07:26:46Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T07:32:50Z phoe: Morning!
2017-01-03T07:33:30Z ausruhen joined #lisp
2017-01-03T07:34:13Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-03T07:34:18Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2017-01-03T07:34:58Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-03T07:36:21Z dec0n_ joined #lisp
2017-01-03T07:36:48Z ausruhen left #lisp
2017-01-03T07:38:14Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-03T07:42:46Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T07:43:19Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-03T07:43:26Z pyx joined #lisp
2017-01-03T07:43:47Z pyx quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-03T07:45:33Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-03T07:49:27Z beach: Hello phoe!
2017-01-03T07:53:15Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-03T08:01:18Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-03T08:01:55Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T08:02:03Z heurist` joined #lisp
2017-01-03T08:03:18Z phoe: I'll talk more once I change locations.
2017-01-03T08:03:21Z phoe: Brb.
2017-01-03T08:05:14Z fying1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T08:12:45Z ragepandemic joined #lisp
2017-01-03T08:13:31Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-03T08:16:40Z jmarciano quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T08:20:18Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-03T08:22:19Z easye joined #lisp
2017-01-03T08:23:27Z john-mcaleely joined #lisp
2017-01-03T08:24:57Z fying1999 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T08:25:16Z fying1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T08:43:40Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-03T08:47:45Z Sigyn quit (Quit: Can we drop the ‘artificial intelligence’? It’s a bit like me calling you a meat-based processing system.)
2017-01-03T08:49:13Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-03T08:50:01Z dec0n_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-03T08:50:07Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-03T08:52:17Z Sigyn joined #lisp
2017-01-03T09:01:23Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-03T09:04:22Z flip214_: Running ABCL and calling (ql:quickload :hunchentoot) gives me "Don't know how to REQUIRE ABCL-CONTRIB." even though the .jar is in the current directory.
2017-01-03T09:04:31Z flip214_: how would I point ABCL to the right location?
2017-01-03T09:06:29Z flip214_: should I extend ASDF:*CENTRAL-REGISTRY*?
2017-01-03T09:06:38Z vtomole: Try that
2017-01-03T09:07:33Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-03T09:08:52Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T09:10:28Z flip214_: no, doesn't work
2017-01-03T09:11:01Z jackdaniel: maybe try (require 'abcl-contrib) from repl
2017-01-03T09:11:16Z jackdaniel: asdf may get the dependency resolving wrong
2017-01-03T09:11:48Z jackdaniel: (and, after that, (ql:quickload :hunchentoot))
2017-01-03T09:11:51Z flip214_: jackdaniel: that's what I tried right now
2017-01-03T09:12:02Z jackdaniel: with what result?
2017-01-03T09:12:08Z flip214_: Failed to require  ABCL-CONTRIB because 'Java exception 'java.lang.NoSuchMethodException: No applicable method named getURLs found in java.lang.ClassLoader or jdk.internal.loader.ClassLoaders$AppClassLoader'.'
2017-01-03T09:12:17Z flip214_: #<THREAD "interpreter" {300F8555}>: Debugger invoked on condition of type SIMPLE-ERROR
2017-01-03T09:12:20Z flip214_:   Don't know how to REQUIRE ABCL-CONTRIB.
2017-01-03T09:12:29Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T09:12:58Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-03T09:13:22Z jackdaniel: then, maybe, try (load "/path/to/abcl-contrib.jar")
2017-01-03T09:13:32Z jackdaniel: huh, looks like too much commas
2017-01-03T09:13:38Z jackdaniel: s/much/many/
2017-01-03T09:13:43Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-03T09:14:48Z flip214_: Loadable FASL not found for '#P"/..."' in '#P"jar:file:/.../abcl-contrib.jar!/abcl-contrib._"'
2017-01-03T09:15:06Z Bike quit (Quit: disable)
2017-01-03T09:15:17Z flip214_: never mind, thanks; I guess easye or ehuelsmann will put me on the right track.
2017-01-03T09:17:19Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-03T09:17:33Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-03T09:18:12Z vtomole: Forgot to wish you a happy new year jaskdaniel, happy new year!
2017-01-03T09:18:19Z vtomole: *jackdaniel
2017-01-03T09:18:38Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-03T09:18:54Z jackdaniel: thank you, same to you :-)
2017-01-03T09:20:09Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-03T09:20:31Z vtomole: jackdaniel: The calling to hack scheme has been too strong on this new year
2017-01-03T09:22:05Z jackdaniel: I was lately reading eulisp specification – very interesting
2017-01-03T09:27:07Z vtomole: Thought it was a new implementation, looks like it's a dead one.
2017-01-03T09:30:18Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-03T09:31:33Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-03T09:34:56Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-03T09:41:54Z krasnal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T09:43:55Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T09:44:20Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-03T09:49:43Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-03T09:53:50Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-03T09:58:15Z theethicalegoist joined #lisp
2017-01-03T09:59:22Z fying1999 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T09:59:31Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:00:13Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:02:18Z fying1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:04:55Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:05:17Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:05:59Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:06:05Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:08:21Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:09:02Z mklk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T10:09:21Z mklk joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:12:41Z radioninja_work quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-03T10:15:04Z Mon_Ouie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T10:16:14Z ghostlight quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-03T10:17:36Z ghostlight joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:20:22Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:22:13Z ducasse quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-03T10:23:15Z groovy2shoes joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:29:32Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:31:14Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-03T10:32:45Z mishoo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T10:34:40Z KZiemian joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:34:56Z KZiemian: Hello World!
2017-01-03T10:35:13Z beach: Hello KZiemian.
2017-01-03T10:35:33Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:35:41Z KZiemian: I lost touch with a lisp world for a while, can someone tell me what important thing are going now? If any?
2017-01-03T10:35:54Z KZiemian: I apologized for my english
2017-01-03T10:36:03Z beach: Depends on your domain of interest.
2017-01-03T10:36:12Z loke: KZiemian: How long were you out?>
2017-01-03T10:36:24Z KZiemian: 6 monts or so
2017-01-03T10:36:40Z edgar-rft: that's not long in Lisp terms
2017-01-03T10:37:07Z KZiemian: but 6 month ago I bearly understend what happend then
2017-01-03T10:37:10Z jackdaniel: KZiemian: McCLIM development has been resumed, new releases of many implementation has been performed etc
2017-01-03T10:37:11Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T10:37:13Z loke: KZiemian: well, then the biggest news is that the QL fundraiser was successful, and Xach now has a stack of cash to spend on developing the security model in Quicklisp.
2017-01-03T10:37:24Z loke: Which is great news.
2017-01-03T10:37:28Z jackdaniel: ↑ :)
2017-01-03T10:37:51Z KZiemian: What mean ,, ↑ :)''?
2017-01-03T10:38:09Z beach: KZiemian: It means "what loke said".
2017-01-03T10:38:15Z ducasse joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:38:16Z jackdaniel: hm, if you have UTF-8 capable terminal, you should see an arrow pointing above my sentence and a smile
2017-01-03T10:38:32Z jackdaniel: and it means what beach said
2017-01-03T10:38:44Z loke: → jackdaniel ←
2017-01-03T10:39:06Z loke: 𝆹𝅥𝅯
2017-01-03T10:39:09Z KZiemian: jackdaniel: yes I have, but after yesterday I aware of jokes for returning man
2017-01-03T10:39:21Z phoe_: KZiemian: hello!
2017-01-03T10:39:35Z KZiemian: phoe_: Hello!
2017-01-03T10:39:49Z phoe_: welcome back to the round side of the world.
2017-01-03T10:39:50Z beach: KZiemian: I have not trace of your nick in the logs.  Did you change it?
2017-01-03T10:39:58Z KZiemian: phoe_: I can't find you since end of Ocotober
2017-01-03T10:40:11Z jackdaniel: beach: KZiemian was at last ELS – I believe you have talked
2017-01-03T10:40:20Z beach: Ah, OK.
2017-01-03T10:40:23Z KZiemian: beach: on this channel I'm first time
2017-01-03T10:40:27Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:40:28Z beach: Got it.
2017-01-03T10:40:29Z phoe_: KZiemian: my mail is just where it was. :P
2017-01-03T10:41:06Z KZiemian: phoe_: but lisp-pl don't see to work properly ;)
2017-01-03T10:41:45Z phoe_: KZiemian: you mean the mailgroup? It's had some issues, yes.
2017-01-03T10:42:03Z KZiemian: phoe_: yes I mean mailgroup
2017-01-03T10:42:13Z phoe_: Fsck. We'll need to fix it.
2017-01-03T10:42:23Z KZiemian: phoe_: jackdaniel send me here
2017-01-03T10:42:36Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:44:43Z bigos quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-03T10:47:22Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-03T10:53:28Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-03T10:54:50Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-03T11:00:10Z Intensity quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T11:00:12Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-03T11:07:05Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-03T11:07:57Z KZiemian quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-03T11:09:02Z KZiemian joined #lisp
2017-01-03T11:12:56Z kamog joined #lisp
2017-01-03T11:18:51Z fying1999 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T11:24:06Z strelox quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T11:31:17Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-03T11:34:37Z KZiemian quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T11:37:50Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T11:38:24Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-03T11:39:10Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-03T11:46:05Z jmignault joined #lisp
2017-01-03T11:54:40Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-03T11:59:25Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-03T12:02:56Z malice` joined #lisp
2017-01-03T12:10:27Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T12:15:51Z jmignault quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T12:16:35Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-03T12:19:23Z l1x quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T12:19:23Z cpt_nemo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T12:19:23Z mindCrime quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T12:19:23Z Subfusc quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T12:19:23Z splittist quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T12:19:23Z creat quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T12:19:23Z RichardPaulBck[m quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T12:19:23Z M-moredhel quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T12:19:23Z lugus35[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T12:19:31Z Subfusc joined #lisp
2017-01-03T12:19:43Z creat joined #lisp
2017-01-03T12:19:48Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2017-01-03T12:20:25Z phoe_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-03T12:21:06Z RichardPaulBck[m joined #lisp
2017-01-03T12:21:19Z M-moredhel joined #lisp
2017-01-03T12:21:23Z lugus35[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-03T12:22:08Z l1x joined #lisp
2017-01-03T12:23:17Z ghostlight quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T12:24:19Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-03T12:24:42Z splittist joined #lisp
2017-01-03T12:25:44Z TCZ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-03T12:26:53Z cmatei joined #lisp
2017-01-03T12:30:00Z ghostlight joined #lisp
2017-01-03T12:30:17Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-03T12:34:34Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-03T12:37:08Z vicfred quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-03T12:37:56Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-03T12:50:01Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-03T12:51:34Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-03T12:52:36Z hjudt: in sbcl, is there any way to get from a (get-internal-real-time) to a universal time without having to do an extra get-universal-time?
2017-01-03T12:53:08Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-03T13:01:52Z Xach: hjudt: I don't think so. But you only have to do it once per session, not once every time.
2017-01-03T13:03:23Z teksteiner joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:08:52Z axion: What would be an efficient way to check if a string contains only character codes in the range of #x20 to #x7e?
2017-01-03T13:11:37Z Xach: axion: (every (lambda (c) (<= #x20 c #x7e)) string) perhaps.
2017-01-03T13:12:13Z Xach: oops, throw in a char-code in <=
2017-01-03T13:12:26Z axion: Nice, that seems like a good approach. Thanks
2017-01-03T13:14:30Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T13:14:55Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:16:13Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:17:53Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:18:38Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:18:40Z phoe_: https://i.sli.mg/D8ZwNK.png
2017-01-03T13:18:45Z phoe_: Is this piece of code properly indented?
2017-01-03T13:19:04Z phoe_: The body block of UNWIND-PROTECT is indented with 5 spaces. It surprised me, since I expected the standard 4.
2017-01-03T13:20:54Z Xach: "properly" often means "whatever emacs does"
2017-01-03T13:21:15Z Xach: I don't know why it uses 5 there. I never noticed, but it is the same here.
2017-01-03T13:22:05Z travv0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T13:22:07Z beach: phoe_: Make sure you use the SLIME contribution for indentation.  It is named slime-indentation.
2017-01-03T13:25:17Z axion: phoe_: That is standard for all non-&body macro args in both SLIME or Sly with contribs
2017-01-03T13:25:17Z mood: It's surprising that slime-fancy does not include slime-indentation
2017-01-03T13:26:04Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T13:27:38Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T13:29:10Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-03T13:30:52Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-03T13:32:38Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:37:58Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T13:40:33Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:43:51Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:46:13Z minion quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-03T13:46:15Z minion joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:46:33Z Colleen quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2017-01-03T13:46:43Z Colleen joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:50:16Z ccl-logbot joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:50:16Z 
2017-01-03T13:50:16Z names: ccl-logbot mada easye AeroNotix isoraqathedh megalography varjagg kbtr watersoul_ jurov taij33n White_Flame misv Guest59936 Colleen minion aries_liuxueyang macdavid313 travv0 phoe_ stardiviner teksteiner cibs cmatei splittist l1x lugus35[m] M-moredhel RichardPaulBck[m creat Subfusc zygentoma Josh_2 malice` himmAllRight strelox kamog m00natic mrottenkolber ducasse mishoo groovy2shoes Mon_Ouie mklk d4ryus stepnem gingerale krasnal theethicalegoist lambda-smith
2017-01-03T13:50:16Z names: vlatkoB Sigyn john-mcaleely terpri ragepandemic heurist` `JRG rippa Blukunfando Harag flamebeard shka ChrisOei nrp3c MrBusiness karswell Tristam drot cpape sword antoszka foom Lord_of_Life angular_mike_ dilated_dinosaur rotty rebelshrug gigetoo k4rtik kilimanjaro makufiru gz_ LyndsySimon banjiewen mjl unrahul lancetw asedeno rvirding velvetcore zacts Khisanth yrk opt9 danieli SCHAAP137 setheus deank angavrilov impulse krrrcks Jesin mathrick boxxlab froggey
2017-01-03T13:50:16Z names: dan64- zagura voidlily troydm vaporatorius lonjil scymtym msmith jean377 __main__ mrcom moei kushal lnostdal fe[nl]ix QualityAddict alandipert MrWoohoo GGMethos neuro_sys marcoecc swflint cromachina wooden_ holly2 vibs29 bocaneri dcluna Quadrescence xantoz nimiux ym pseudonymous PlasmaStar razzy schjetne housel Guest57693 itruslove peccu1 adlai peterhil fkac srcerer cyraxjoe CrazyEddy dmiles shymega aaronjensen Xof p_l gabiruh lpaste SiCC ircbrowse pchrist
2017-01-03T13:50:16Z names: ecraven ferada snits tkd lxpz johs nullx002- e o`connor_ TeMPOraL cebreidian amoe danlentz tobel MorTal1ty trig-ger_ rann josh5tone Zhivago frug72 ogkloo eschatologist kini jdz clog axion roscoe_tw ft davsebamse AntiSpamMeta Zotan fjl_ zooey fitzsim aeth ski beaky norfumpit koisoke loke` akkad pacon Firedancer mach larme shikhin askatasuna ramus Nikotiini detergnet flip214_ WojciechK funnel finnrobi_ Patzy dsp__ anachrom1 pankracy_ larsen H4ns djinni`_
2017-01-03T13:50:16Z names: SAL9000 jackc_ eMBee ck_ tessier ineiros forgot Kaisyu phadthai pkkm araujo libre-man pjstirling omilu sukaeto thinkpad joast arbv Oladon jibanes drmeister gabot lemoinem gko brandonz jmasseo killmaster TruePika neuri8 nopf Lord_Nightmare fiddlerwoaroof vhost- unbalancedparen fluter chavezgu TMA oGMo sebboh N3vYn justinabrahms Posterdati arrdem Mandus hydraz jasom jackdaniel paroneayea nullman Ober sbryant grindhold trn Cthulhux drdo abbe kjeldahl cyberlard
2017-01-03T13:50:16Z names: CEnnis91 SlashLife tephra switchy phoe habs xristos harlequin78[m] Omarnem0[m] Tetsuo[m] M-Illandan Jach[m] ``Erik _death lieven derrida nydel vert2 Tordek tmc whartung Blkt cantstanya yeltzooo d4gg4d marsjaninzmarsa mnoonan kolko zymurgy redcedar schoppenhauer fulon Cymew Oddity mrSpec emerson guaqua Neet_ des_consolado z0d emma vlnx_ gendl mtd sepi`` toogley eagleflo djh gbyers wyan Glitchy NhanH sigjuice arrsim nhandler whiteline cross ggherdov tiago
2017-01-03T13:50:16Z names: Karunamon alms_clozure alphor pent_ zkat ozzloy jsnell PuercoPop Urfin_ vsync |3b| felideon XachX billstclair eschulte nicdev payphone heddwch tanuzzo brucem jself mikaelj les fouric sohail zerac otwieracz j0ni pok stux|RC joga leo_song newcup Hoolootwo rjeli qlkzy tilpner cods tokenrove cmpitg mood theBlackDragon tomaw dlowe solene hjudt samebchase mordocai luis raydeejay benny justinmcp arpunk ec\ fluxit Fade renard_ knobo copec tokik wizzo sshirokov
2017-01-03T13:50:16Z names: specbot pareidolia listp loke kjak yrdz rumbler31 eazar001 seg Xach
2017-01-03T13:50:36Z tfb joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:51:14Z mada: hi, I've gone through the first few chapters of pcl and so far the language feels pretty good. I have one question though, many people seem pretty excited about racket. How does it compare to CL?
2017-01-03T13:51:23Z mada: Also I guess I should ask this in a racket-focused channel as well.
2017-01-03T13:52:18Z beach joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:52:24Z axion: phoe_: yes, that is expected behavior
2017-01-03T13:52:41Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:55:00Z mbrock joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:55:31Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T13:56:17Z listp quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T13:56:23Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:57:06Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:57:14Z impulse joined #lisp
2017-01-03T13:58:42Z ghostlight joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:05:27Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:09:42Z phoe_: axion: woah.
2017-01-03T14:12:12Z Xach: mada: that kind of meta stuff is not really topical. if you have a question about CL itself, many would be happy to answer.
2017-01-03T14:13:41Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T14:14:10Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:15:00Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:15:10Z mada: Xach: thanks. I think the most important bit of info I needed to look for the answer myself was "Racket is a scheme".
2017-01-03T14:17:04Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T14:17:06Z mada: Will keep that in mind about meta questions.
2017-01-03T14:19:48Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-03T14:20:17Z travv0: Also, once you have some experience with CL it's easy to pick up Racket and judge both for yourself.  I think they're both nice languages in different ways.
2017-01-03T14:20:24Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T14:21:03Z mada: Yeah honestly I'm surely over analyzing this. It's probably not that hard to get either after the other, even if they're not as similar as I thought at first.
2017-01-03T14:21:23Z mada: so I'll just stick with PCL and stop worrying about this.
2017-01-03T14:21:26Z GGMethos quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2017-01-03T14:22:02Z phoe_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-03T14:22:04Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:22:04Z beach: mada: Modern Common Lisp code uses classes and generic functions a lot.  And CLOS is different from most other object systems.
2017-01-03T14:22:13Z Zhivago: CL has a lot of extra junk, which can be annoying. Scheme doesn't have a lot of extra junk, which can be annoying.
2017-01-03T14:24:26Z ebrasca` joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:24:35Z ebrasca` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T14:24:49Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T14:25:02Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:27:00Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:27:13Z logicmoo joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:27:31Z dmiles quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T14:28:10Z ebrasca` joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:28:21Z Khisanth quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-03T14:28:33Z ebrasca` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T14:28:41Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T14:28:51Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:29:21Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-03T14:29:29Z GGMethos joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:29:40Z GGMethos quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-03T14:30:59Z d4ryus quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
2017-01-03T14:31:07Z GGMethos joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:31:28Z mada: Zhivago: ha! good point
2017-01-03T14:31:44Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-03T14:32:22Z mada: I see accounts of people missing the LOOP macro. One would think that's a pretty "standard" or "basic" thing though.
2017-01-03T14:32:31Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:32:45Z mada: so it must be pretty powerful.
2017-01-03T14:33:01Z beach: It is.
2017-01-03T14:33:34Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:34:38Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:35:02Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T14:38:56Z Zhivago: LOOP used in powerful ways is generally misused.
2017-01-03T14:39:08Z Zhivago: But it can be convenient in certain idiomatic ways.
2017-01-03T14:40:36Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T14:41:31Z thinkpad quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T14:43:26Z thinkpad joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:44:45Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:51:21Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:55:41Z warweasle joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:56:14Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-03T14:59:35Z warweasle: What's a "Full Stack" Java developer?
2017-01-03T15:00:05Z jackdaniel: that is a kind of very miserable person ;-)
2017-01-03T15:00:45Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:00:59Z reepca joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:01:29Z warweasle: jackdaniel: How many stacks do you know? FULL.
2017-01-03T15:01:29Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:01:29Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-03T15:01:29Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:03:42Z jackdaniel: full stack developer pop's everything his boss puts on the stack :)
2017-01-03T15:03:49Z jackdaniel: pushes on the stack°
2017-01-03T15:04:12Z logicmoo is now known as dmiles
2017-01-03T15:04:27Z varjagg quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-03T15:05:28Z warweasle: jackdaniel: I prefer a deque...but that's STL and stuff...
2017-01-03T15:12:24Z kevin1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:15:07Z bin7me joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:16:20Z warweasle quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.4.1)
2017-01-03T15:17:25Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-03T15:20:08Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:20:32Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T15:23:56Z ebrasca quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T15:24:14Z rlatimore joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:24:37Z groovy2shoes quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T15:25:25Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:26:37Z bounb joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:26:48Z bounb quit (Changing host)
2017-01-03T15:26:48Z bounb joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:34:47Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:35:06Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:37:12Z stardiviner quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-03T15:43:19Z Moosef joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:49:17Z heurist` is now known as heurist
2017-01-03T15:54:17Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-03T15:55:07Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:55:10Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:56:51Z vkashyap joined #lisp
2017-01-03T15:57:57Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-03T16:03:44Z les quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-03T16:04:57Z kevin1999 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T16:05:31Z kevin1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T16:07:43Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-03T16:09:34Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-03T16:13:14Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T16:14:07Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-03T16:16:23Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-03T16:18:17Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-03T16:19:33Z kevin1999 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T16:23:01Z rlatimore quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-03T16:23:59Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-03T16:25:35Z listp joined #lisp
2017-01-03T16:26:36Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-03T16:31:19Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-03T16:33:48Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T16:34:59Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-03T16:35:12Z borodust joined #lisp
2017-01-03T16:35:38Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-03T16:37:06Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-03T16:41:21Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T16:44:24Z les joined #lisp
2017-01-03T16:45:32Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T16:46:49Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-03T16:55:39Z borodust: i'm working on certain tool and some concurrency model emerged during development that nicely maps to work tool is doing. This model is a mix of promises with data-dlow paradigm
2017-01-03T16:55:55Z borodust: example of how code might look like can be found here: https://gist.github.com/borodust/bba37b749c8dd1929f01347d35a3dc46
2017-01-03T16:56:37Z borodust: is anyone interested in adopting such a model?
2017-01-03T16:56:42Z malice`: borodust: where are the arrows from?
2017-01-03T16:57:17Z borodust: >>, ~> and -> are defined by model
2017-01-03T16:57:39Z borodust: some explanations of what they are inteded for are in the header
2017-01-03T16:57:44Z malice`: so there is no publicly available definition of these?
2017-01-03T16:57:55Z borodust: there are
2017-01-03T16:58:02Z borodust: if u meant implementation
2017-01-03T16:58:05Z malice`: yes
2017-01-03T16:58:20Z borodust: it's just it is integrated into the tool, and i'm thinking of splitting it into library
2017-01-03T16:58:22Z borodust: sec
2017-01-03T16:58:26Z malice`: that's what I meant, sorry. I was thinking in the programming language terms
2017-01-03T16:58:38Z malice`: I'm asking because I've seen a code using ~> before and I was wondering where it is
2017-01-03T16:58:49Z malice`: so far I only know https://github.com/hipeta/arrow-macros
2017-01-03T16:59:20Z borodust: https://github.com/borodust/cl-bodge/blob/0.3.0/engine/concurrency/async.lisp#L95
2017-01-03T16:59:54Z borodust: nah, that just a syntactic sugar i liked to explore :)
2017-01-03T16:59:56Z malice`: wow, another game engine in CL
2017-01-03T17:00:03Z malice`: do you hang out at #lisp-games?
2017-01-03T17:00:08Z borodust: yes, i do
2017-01-03T17:00:26Z malice`: I have to use IRC more often.
2017-01-03T17:00:43Z borodust: under the hood, that just a list of lists of callbacks of vertain format
2017-01-03T17:00:47Z borodust: *certain
2017-01-03T17:01:27Z malice`: Yeah, under the hood it's all 0s and 1s. Where did the syntactic sugar idea come from?
2017-01-03T17:01:37Z malice`: Or is it your idea that ~> just looks nicely?
2017-01-03T17:01:42Z borodust: exactly
2017-01-03T17:01:59Z malice`: Okay. Sorry, I won't be much help, but I wanted to ask these :)
2017-01-03T17:02:00Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-03T17:02:08Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T17:02:08Z borodust: i already had >> and -> in mind, but couldn't come up with parallel operator)
2017-01-03T17:02:19Z borodust: malice`: no probs
2017-01-03T17:02:57Z malice`: anyway it looks kind of nicely except for the same names as arrow-macros
2017-01-03T17:03:02Z malice`: which probably isn't that big of a deal
2017-01-03T17:07:55Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-03T17:08:11Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T17:08:39Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-03T17:12:54Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T17:12:56Z mrcom quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-03T17:13:05Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-03T17:14:22Z malice`: borodust: anyway, if you intend to spread the gist, there's a typo next to the -> explanation: atmoic instead of atomic
2017-01-03T17:14:50Z borodust: malice`: got it, tnx
2017-01-03T17:14:56Z malice`: np
2017-01-03T17:15:37Z malice`: so if I get it right, the -> with :any-thread works that way, because :any-thread is your implementation-defined reserved keyword for a designator meaning "all threads"?
2017-01-03T17:16:03Z malice`: or is the :any-thread just another name?
2017-01-03T17:16:03Z borodust: there's also one more concept i didn't mention, which is dispatcher
2017-01-03T17:16:24Z borodust: dispatcher looks into invariants and decides where execute next bunch
2017-01-03T17:16:49Z borodust: so user defines what those invariants/tags mean
2017-01-03T17:17:12Z borodust: but generally, they are introduced to distinguish code blocks that cannot be run in parallel
2017-01-03T17:17:40Z malice`: how do you pronounce "~>"? I understand that "->" is an "arrow", right?
2017-01-03T17:17:53Z borodust: bent arrow? XD
2017-01-03T17:18:37Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-03T17:18:46Z borodust: seriously, i have no idea myself yet
2017-01-03T17:19:03Z clog quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-03T17:19:14Z malice`: Okay, so if I had many arrows inside a bent arrow(needle?), two of which share the same tags, these would be not executed concurrently?
2017-01-03T17:19:26Z borodust: malice`: yes
2017-01-03T17:19:48Z malice`: so then it would work like progn for these arrows, right?
2017-01-03T17:20:10Z borodust: nope, because u would not know the order in which they are executed
2017-01-03T17:20:28Z borodust: to be certain of execution order one would need to use >>
2017-01-03T17:20:39Z malice`: so order would be undefined?
2017-01-03T17:20:49Z borodust: for ~> operator, yes
2017-01-03T17:21:02Z malice`: okay
2017-01-03T17:21:55Z malice`: do you have some working implementation in separate package?
2017-01-03T17:22:03Z malice`: it looks nice, I could play with it
2017-01-03T17:22:31Z borodust: i have working implementation, but asking exactly to see if there any interest in the idea
2017-01-03T17:23:01Z borodust: to distill it into separate library
2017-01-03T17:23:35Z malice`: I'm pretty sure I've seen some ~> operator for parallel operations...
2017-01-03T17:23:43Z borodust: i even have a test that cover some features
2017-01-03T17:23:47Z borodust: *covers
2017-01-03T17:24:25Z borodust: malice`: nice, that means ppl have somewhat same idea about of what ~>  could mean :)
2017-01-03T17:24:27Z oGMo: it definitely seems neat even if i personally have no immediate use for it
2017-01-03T17:24:57Z antoszka: I'd pronounce it “tilde-arrow”, if that matters.
2017-01-03T17:25:04Z borodust: ;p
2017-01-03T17:26:10Z borodust: alright, i'll try to make a lib out of it
2017-01-03T17:26:27Z borodust: i could merge it back into main tree anytime anyway
2017-01-03T17:26:38Z borodust: if there would be no interest
2017-01-03T17:27:11Z malice`: Or just keep it that way. I'm waiting for the link to the repo :)
2017-01-03T17:28:45Z borodust: malice`: with no interest it would depend on the needs of engine too much
2017-01-03T17:29:03Z malice`: right
2017-01-03T17:29:45Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-03T17:33:33Z clog joined #lisp
2017-01-03T17:35:01Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-03T17:37:13Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-03T17:37:20Z KZiemian joined #lisp
2017-01-03T17:40:41Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-03T17:40:41Z Bike quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-03T17:40:51Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-03T17:51:49Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T17:51:52Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-03T17:53:20Z malice`: borodust: do you know lparallel?
2017-01-03T17:53:37Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-03T17:56:29Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-03T17:56:45Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T17:59:54Z Moosef quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-03T18:02:08Z klltkr|CLE joined #lisp
2017-01-03T18:03:07Z listp quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-03T18:06:10Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-03T18:14:03Z borodust: malice`: i've researched quite a few approaches/libs
2017-01-03T18:14:06Z borodust: lemme check
2017-01-03T18:15:17Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T18:17:25Z borodust: malice`: looks good
2017-01-03T18:18:40Z kamog quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T18:18:51Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T18:18:56Z borodust: data-flow-driven sugar can be nicely put on top
2017-01-03T18:19:02Z borodust: i suspect
2017-01-03T18:19:07Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-03T18:27:59Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-03T18:31:02Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-03T18:31:15Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-03T18:33:24Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-03T18:34:45Z shifty joined #lisp
2017-01-03T18:35:08Z dsp__ is now known as dsp
2017-01-03T18:35:13Z shka_ joined #lisp
2017-01-03T18:35:15Z bin7me quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-03T18:35:20Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-03T18:37:33Z rlatimore joined #lisp
2017-01-03T18:41:23Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T18:41:34Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T18:43:02Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T18:44:22Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-03T18:47:24Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-03T18:52:12Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-03T18:57:00Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T18:58:41Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-03T18:59:33Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T19:02:46Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:02:46Z cpc26 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-03T19:02:46Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:02:57Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:04:21Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T19:08:27Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:16:54Z bigos quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T19:17:18Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:18:15Z warweasle joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:18:57Z trig-ger_ is now known as trig-ger
2017-01-03T19:21:38Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:23:01Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T19:23:20Z Airo joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:24:40Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:31:24Z KZiemian quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z l1x quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z RichardPaulBck[m quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z creat quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z strelox quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z gingerale quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z vlatkoB quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z john-mcaleely quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z gz_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z boxxlab quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z kushal quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z ym quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z danlentz quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z MorTal1ty quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z josh5tone quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z frug72 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z ogkloo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z ft quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z Zotan quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z finnrobi_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z H4ns quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z jackc_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z tessier quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:44Z sukaeto quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:45Z fluter quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:45Z Mandus quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:45Z Cthulhux quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:45Z abbe quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:45Z harlequin78[m] quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:45Z lieven quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:45Z Tordek quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:45Z marsjaninzmarsa quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:45Z schoppenhauer quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-03T19:35:52Z finnrobi joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:35:52Z kushal joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:35:52Z john-mca` joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:35:53Z Tordek joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:35:53Z Cthulhux joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:35:53Z jackc joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:35:53Z Mandus joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:35:57Z Zotan joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:35:59Z abbe joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:35:59Z boxxlab joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:36:00Z tessier joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:36:01Z josh5tone joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:36:02Z lieven joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:36:02Z sukaeto joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:36:03Z ogkloo joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:36:03Z ym joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:36:12Z frug72_ joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:36:16Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:36:17Z tessier quit (Changing host)
2017-01-03T19:36:17Z tessier joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:36:24Z ft joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:36:26Z creat joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:36:29Z marsjaninzmarsa joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:36:31Z kushal is now known as Guest65710
2017-01-03T19:36:58Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:37:18Z Guest77045 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:38:37Z harlequin78[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:39:38Z RichardPaulBck[m joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:39:41Z ghostlight quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-03T19:40:53Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:41:39Z MorTal1ty joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:42:41Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-03T19:42:56Z l1x joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:45:12Z gz_ joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:48:23Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:48:29Z borodust: oGMo malice`: https://github.com/borodust/cl-flow
2017-01-03T19:48:59Z borodust: unfortunately, tests depend on the home-grown concurrency lib, so my apologies
2017-01-03T19:49:34Z borodust: althou it is available too
2017-01-03T19:50:29Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:50:31Z borodust: https://github.com/borodust/cl-muth
2017-01-03T19:51:56Z lieven quit (Changing host)
2017-01-03T19:51:57Z lieven joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:53:04Z danlentz joined #lisp
2017-01-03T19:59:54Z oGMo: borodust: neat ;)
2017-01-03T20:02:02Z borodust: hopefully so :D
2017-01-03T20:02:40Z macdavid314 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T20:03:32Z ghostlight joined #lisp
2017-01-03T20:03:52Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T20:03:52Z macdavid314 is now known as macdavid313
2017-01-03T20:05:37Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-03T20:06:27Z nevilleG joined #lisp
2017-01-03T20:10:34Z jasom: borodust: Is there a need for -> ? Couldn't >> and ~> assume that any undecorated compound forms are to be executed?
2017-01-03T20:12:13Z H4ns joined #lisp
2017-01-03T20:12:34Z borodust: -> is needed, because any form cannot be actually executed
2017-01-03T20:12:56Z borodust: -> macroexpands to special callback that can be then used by other operators as they see fit
2017-01-03T20:12:56Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-03T20:13:55Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-03T20:14:00Z borodust: i prefer to keep format of this callback as an implementation details for now
2017-01-03T20:14:20Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-03T20:15:19Z borodust: essentially, >> and ~> operators work with list of lists of callbacks under the hood
2017-01-03T20:15:53Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-03T20:16:51Z borodust: jasom: but, maybe somewhere in the future this feature might take plax
2017-01-03T20:16:57Z borodust: *place
2017-01-03T20:17:31Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-03T20:19:15Z borodust: as a quick workaround i defined (define-flow value-flow (value) (-> :generic () value)) to use in the dependent code
2017-01-03T20:19:51Z borodust: it might be as well be just a defun
2017-01-03T20:22:43Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-03T20:32:22Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-03T20:33:06Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-03T20:36:38Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-03T20:38:16Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T20:41:39Z ragepandemic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T20:42:25Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-03T20:44:19Z malice` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-03T20:49:20Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-03T20:49:58Z nrp3c quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-03T20:52:40Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-03T20:53:46Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-03T20:57:26Z KZiemian joined #lisp
2017-01-03T20:59:21Z cpt_nemo joined #lisp
2017-01-03T21:02:16Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-03T21:05:39Z macdavid313 quit (Quit: macdavid313)
2017-01-03T21:07:00Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-03T21:11:58Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-03T21:12:12Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-03T21:13:36Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-03T21:16:06Z scottj joined #lisp
2017-01-03T21:17:31Z rlatimore quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-03T21:18:04Z rlatimore joined #lisp
2017-01-03T21:21:04Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T21:22:40Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-03T21:26:52Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-03T21:28:14Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T21:30:18Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-03T21:31:01Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-03T21:31:25Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-03T21:39:47Z dsp quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-03T21:42:17Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-03T21:42:27Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-03T21:44:01Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-03T21:44:41Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-03T21:45:55Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-03T21:46:25Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-03T21:46:25Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-03T21:46:37Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-03T21:54:37Z tharugrim joined #lisp
2017-01-03T21:56:02Z KZiemian quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-03T22:06:37Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-03T22:12:36Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-03T22:20:50Z Blkt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T22:20:50Z fe[nl]ix quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T22:21:48Z tharugrim quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-03T22:21:54Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T22:22:25Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp
2017-01-03T22:26:00Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2017-01-03T22:26:10Z tharugrim joined #lisp
2017-01-03T22:26:30Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T22:28:13Z Blkt joined #lisp
2017-01-03T22:31:20Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-03T22:31:23Z tharugrim quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-03T22:33:50Z rlatimore quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-03T22:38:38Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-03T22:38:45Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T22:39:06Z heurist joined #lisp
2017-01-03T22:53:24Z krasnal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T22:55:57Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-03T22:58:32Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-03T23:00:11Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-03T23:01:15Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-03T23:03:26Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-03T23:03:38Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T23:07:27Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T23:08:35Z phoe: https://github.com/npatrick04/timer-wheel <- I'm interested in this.
2017-01-03T23:08:46Z phoe: Are there any systems already on QL similar to that?
2017-01-03T23:09:01Z phoe: Something that will do its best to fire events every N milliseconds?
2017-01-03T23:09:27Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-03T23:11:00Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-03T23:15:25Z antoszka: phoe: would that work for you? http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Timers
2017-01-03T23:18:14Z phoe: antoszka: it would, but is implementation-dependent.
2017-01-03T23:18:30Z antoszka: Definitely. That's why I'm asking.
2017-01-03T23:20:29Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-03T23:21:20Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T23:22:42Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-03T23:23:42Z phoe: Basically, that timer has a repeat interval.
2017-01-03T23:23:56Z phoe: I want something to be executed every N milliseconds with an option of pausing and unpausing it.
2017-01-03T23:24:18Z fare__ joined #lisp
2017-01-03T23:24:42Z axion: Is this for a game by chance?
2017-01-03T23:24:55Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T23:25:40Z FareTower quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-03T23:26:13Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T23:28:36Z zeitue joined #lisp
2017-01-03T23:28:53Z fare__ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-03T23:30:09Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-03T23:31:06Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-03T23:35:20Z phoe: axion: for a game server.
2017-01-03T23:35:23Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-03T23:35:32Z phoe: I want internal commands to be issued every 100 milliseconds.
2017-01-03T23:35:51Z phoe: And I'm using an LPARALLEL queue for that.
2017-01-03T23:38:45Z axion: phoe: I would google for "Gaffer's Fix Your Time Step". This is actually a non-trivial problem.
2017-01-03T23:39:06Z phoe: axion: I know. With multithreading and non-deterministic GC, it's nontrivial.
2017-01-03T23:39:15Z axion: There is more to it than probably anticipated
2017-01-03T23:39:32Z axion: To avoid the spiral of death, etc
2017-01-03T23:39:32Z phoe: Actually, I'm more than fine with delays in this case as this is not a real-time game. So half a second here, half a second there would even be acceptable.
2017-01-03T23:45:56Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-03T23:47:57Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-03T23:48:04Z bigos_ joined #lisp
2017-01-03T23:49:01Z bigos_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-03T23:51:52Z phoe: axion: ugh, my implementation would be fine with something as simple and messy as (loop (when running-p (do-stuff)) (sleep 0.1))
2017-01-03T23:52:07Z phoe: but I want to find something better in order to avoid heresy
2017-01-03T23:52:29Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-03T23:55:52Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-03T23:59:22Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T00:00:08Z phoe: Once again - I don't this need to run at a constant framerate. I want some things to occur about ten times per second on my server.
2017-01-04T00:00:15Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-04T00:05:30Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-04T00:05:56Z oGMo is now known as rpav
2017-01-04T00:07:06Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T00:07:30Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-04T00:07:44Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-04T00:08:42Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T00:09:26Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-04T00:11:56Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T00:12:51Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-04T00:15:28Z My_Hearing joined #lisp
2017-01-04T00:16:10Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-04T00:18:29Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T00:23:07Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-04T00:24:02Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-04T00:24:13Z cyberlard is now known as grace_host
2017-01-04T00:25:32Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-04T00:25:56Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-04T00:30:14Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T00:33:16Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T00:42:54Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-04T00:46:51Z aeth: phoe: afaik (sleep n) is okay for what you need, you just need n to be variable based on measured time.
2017-01-04T00:47:26Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-04T00:47:33Z aeth: So afaik you just need a simple timer, time how long the loop takes, and then sleep the rest of the time.
2017-01-04T00:47:47Z aeth: It's not bulletproof, but it's better than (sleep 0.1) without taking days to implement
2017-01-04T00:48:07Z aeth: s/the loop takes/the loop iteration takes/
2017-01-04T00:52:00Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-04T00:57:07Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T00:57:54Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2017-01-04T00:58:06Z Guest77045 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-04T00:58:06Z Guest77045 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T00:59:01Z Guest77045 is now known as fluter
2017-01-04T01:01:08Z prole quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T01:01:09Z phoe: aeth: I've just created something like that.
2017-01-04T01:04:04Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T01:05:36Z raynold: ahh it's a wonderful day
2017-01-04T01:06:32Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-04T01:07:10Z phoe: raynold: it's 2 AM
2017-01-04T01:07:51Z raynold: hehe
2017-01-04T01:15:10Z klltkr|CLE quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T01:18:00Z warweasle` joined #lisp
2017-01-04T01:19:47Z grace_host is now known as cyberlard
2017-01-04T01:20:54Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-04T01:22:05Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-04T01:23:05Z xrash joined #lisp
2017-01-04T01:31:02Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T01:36:04Z xrash joined #lisp
2017-01-04T01:48:05Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T01:52:27Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-04T01:55:01Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-04T01:55:24Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-04T01:57:29Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-04T01:59:39Z lexicall joined #lisp
2017-01-04T01:59:43Z lexicall quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T02:02:15Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T02:05:32Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T02:06:16Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-04T02:11:34Z nicdev quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.90.1))
2017-01-04T02:12:03Z nicdev joined #lisp
2017-01-04T02:13:46Z nicdev quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-04T02:14:32Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T02:14:59Z teksteiner quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-04T02:15:45Z teksteiner joined #lisp
2017-01-04T02:15:53Z nicdev joined #lisp
2017-01-04T02:17:07Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-04T02:17:44Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T02:20:38Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-04T02:25:58Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T02:29:11Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T02:31:42Z nevilleG quit
2017-01-04T02:34:35Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-04T02:35:33Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T02:37:07Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T02:37:15Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T02:37:24Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T02:41:47Z bigos quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T02:41:52Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T02:42:30Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T02:45:17Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-04T02:46:00Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T02:47:47Z Oladon1 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T02:48:41Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-04T02:49:23Z xrash joined #lisp
2017-01-04T02:49:37Z Oladon quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T02:52:06Z himmAllRight quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T02:52:39Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-04T02:53:57Z warweasle` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T02:58:53Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:00:10Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:01:01Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:02:56Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:03:10Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-04T03:04:58Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:06:25Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:08:17Z dpg quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T03:09:44Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T03:10:22Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-04T03:12:11Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:16:00Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T03:16:26Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-04T03:20:07Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T03:22:10Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T03:25:23Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:30:12Z djinni`_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-04T03:30:22Z djinni` joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:34:51Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:35:12Z adlai joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:36:00Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T03:38:43Z teksteiner quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T03:43:33Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:46:55Z Oladon1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T03:47:51Z Oladon joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:47:54Z Airo left #lisp
2017-01-04T03:49:04Z aindilis2 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:49:43Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:49:51Z Reinisch quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-04T03:50:20Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:50:55Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T03:50:55Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-04T03:54:32Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T03:55:12Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:57:42Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T03:58:18Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:58:40Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T03:59:20Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-04T04:01:56Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T04:02:18Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-04T04:04:57Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T04:07:53Z Guest65710 is now known as kushal
2017-01-04T04:08:01Z kushal quit (Changing host)
2017-01-04T04:08:01Z kushal joined #lisp
2017-01-04T04:14:28Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-04T04:24:43Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-04T04:39:20Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T04:42:28Z lisp424 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T04:48:54Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T04:50:07Z Reinisch_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T04:50:08Z Reinisch_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-04T04:51:10Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-04T04:53:26Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T04:53:55Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T04:54:09Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-04T04:58:30Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-04T05:01:36Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-04T05:01:42Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-04T05:06:02Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T05:18:58Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-04T05:19:00Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T05:24:04Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T05:24:20Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T05:28:47Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T05:34:00Z RichardPaulBck[m quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T05:34:00Z harlequin78[m] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T05:34:02Z Jach[m] quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T05:34:04Z Omarnem0[m] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T05:34:04Z Tetsuo[m] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T05:34:05Z lugus35[m] quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T05:34:05Z M-moredhel quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T05:34:05Z M-Illandan quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T05:38:10Z ghostlight quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-04T05:41:24Z ghostlight joined #lisp
2017-01-04T05:42:44Z lisp424 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-04T05:42:46Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T05:49:41Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-04T05:52:39Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-04T05:53:55Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-04T05:54:20Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T05:54:56Z yeticry joined #lisp
2017-01-04T05:59:22Z M-moredhel joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:06:46Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T06:09:19Z Xal joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:09:43Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:10:18Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:10:45Z manuel__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T06:13:02Z lugus35[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:13:02Z M-Illandan joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:13:03Z harlequin78[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:13:08Z RichardPaulBck[m joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:13:08Z Tetsuo[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:13:08Z Jach[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:13:09Z Omarnem0[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:14:38Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:14:54Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-04T06:14:54Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-04T06:19:49Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T06:19:59Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:21:21Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-04T06:24:10Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:24:45Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T06:24:55Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T06:24:55Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-04T06:28:45Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:28:52Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:29:27Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T06:29:27Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-04T06:29:58Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:32:07Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-04T06:33:59Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T06:35:12Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:44:07Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:44:44Z Reinisch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T06:50:05Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:51:01Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-04T06:55:08Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-04T07:02:20Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-04T07:06:45Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-04T07:13:54Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-04T07:14:08Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-04T07:14:13Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T07:16:34Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T07:22:12Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-04T07:29:30Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-04T07:37:11Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-04T07:43:52Z pseudonymous left #lisp
2017-01-04T07:46:50Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-04T07:48:38Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-04T07:49:49Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-04T07:50:18Z axion: I have an interesting problem
2017-01-04T07:51:24Z axion: Interesting because I never needed such oddness, but I'm wondering if there is anyway outside of the MOP, to get the name of the superclass of an object's class definition. I want to define a PRINT-OBJECT method that uses the name of the superclass instead of the direct class with :TYPE T
2017-01-04T07:51:35Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-04T07:51:48Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T07:51:59Z Bike: getting a class's superclass is exactly the kind of thing the mop is for
2017-01-04T07:52:05Z Bike: i don't understand that last sentence though
2017-01-04T07:55:48Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-04T07:55:58Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-04T07:56:34Z axion: Actually, I worded that a bit wrong.
2017-01-04T07:57:11Z axion: I have a METADATA class, with header and data slots. The data slot is another object that I want printed exactly as the print-object method for METADATA.
2017-01-04T07:57:49Z Bike: you mean, when a METADATA is printed, you want it to just print whatever's in the data slot?
2017-01-04T07:58:51Z axion: No, I mean when an object in the data slot is printed, I want it to actually print whatever metadata would print as. METADATA uses information in the header slot to print nicely, and I don't have access to that cleanly from the data object.
2017-01-04T07:59:29Z Bike: does the data have a link to the metadata?
2017-01-04T07:59:51Z axion: It does not and cannot as it represents a concrete syntax tree.
2017-01-04T08:00:04Z axion: This is pretty pointless, but would prevent a lot of headaches. I'm knee deep in a big hierarchy here, and getting a headache going through the inspector
2017-01-04T08:00:46Z Bike: well, naturally if the data doesn't know about the metadata, there's no way the printer could if it's just given the data
2017-01-04T08:02:22Z axion: I agree and I don't know what would cause me to think I can fix this cleanly. Lack of sleep has got to me I think.
2017-01-04T08:02:31Z Bike: it happens
2017-01-04T08:02:36Z axion: Thanks for listening. :)
2017-01-04T08:03:06Z Bike: "i can't do this" is probably a better conclusion than "i need to use the most obscure parts of the mop to print something" anyway
2017-01-04T08:04:15Z axion: Right.
2017-01-04T08:05:54Z axion: If I had it my way, I would just subclass HEADER for the different DATA types, but I am being pedantic about a specification
2017-01-04T08:06:19Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-04T08:06:30Z axion: As anyone doing parsing should I believe :)
2017-01-04T08:07:04Z d4ryus1 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T08:07:22Z ragepandemic joined #lisp
2017-01-04T08:08:16Z vlatkoB quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T08:09:37Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-04T08:09:58Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T08:20:33Z Xal quit (Quit: Quitting)
2017-01-04T08:22:34Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T08:24:18Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2017-01-04T08:32:47Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T08:33:12Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-04T08:35:41Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-04T08:42:40Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-04T08:46:23Z BigSafari quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-04T08:48:09Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-04T08:50:43Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-04T08:51:00Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-04T08:52:10Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-04T08:53:51Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-04T08:56:50Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T09:01:45Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-04T09:04:41Z hjudt: Xach: thanks for your suggestion yesterday. i am using this now, it seems to work ok: http://pastebin.com/DEUk5tA4
2017-01-04T09:05:27Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T09:05:49Z loke: hjudt: But that difference isn't necessarily constant.
2017-01-04T09:06:03Z loke: What is it you really want to achieve?
2017-01-04T09:08:25Z hjudt: loke, why so? in effect, i want get-universal-time with higher precision. i am not quite sure about storing it yet, maybe the time difference will suffice too but i haven't made up my mind yet.
2017-01-04T09:09:20Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T09:09:23Z loke: hjudt: I recommend you use the local-time library instead.
2017-01-04T09:10:24Z hjudt: maybe i should, yes
2017-01-04T09:14:51Z hjudt: i have to deal with epoch time anyway (external constraints), so better to ditch universal-time and use unix timestamps to be more in uniform. and i probably would have stored epoch time in the database instead of universal time.
2017-01-04T09:16:07Z marcoecc quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-04T09:19:01Z loke: hjudt: local-time has nice conversions between its format and unix timestamps.
2017-01-04T09:20:11Z hjudt: yes. i've used cl-epoch for that until now because it is smaller. but now that is a reason to switch.
2017-01-04T09:20:38Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-04T09:22:36Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T09:22:36Z theethicalegoist quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T09:23:00Z theethicalegoist joined #lisp
2017-01-04T09:23:45Z marcoecc joined #lisp
2017-01-04T09:26:53Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T09:27:32Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-04T09:33:55Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T09:35:31Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-04T09:42:12Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T09:44:55Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-04T09:45:06Z d4ryus1 left #lisp
2017-01-04T09:47:57Z john-mca` is now known as john-mcaleely
2017-01-04T09:54:33Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-04T09:55:19Z clickycode77 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T09:57:28Z marsjaninzmarsa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-04T09:57:28Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-04T09:59:05Z marsjaninzmarsa joined #lisp
2017-01-04T10:02:28Z macdavid314 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T10:02:30Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T10:03:39Z macdavid313 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T10:03:39Z macdavid314 is now known as macdavid313
2017-01-04T10:04:59Z macdavid313 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-04T10:06:32Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T10:11:28Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-04T10:20:36Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-04T10:24:28Z clickycode77 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-04T10:25:49Z clickycode77 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T10:32:52Z MrBusiness quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T10:37:01Z nowhereman quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-04T10:37:12Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-04T10:39:14Z ragepandemic left #lisp
2017-01-04T10:39:34Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-04T10:39:45Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T10:42:32Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-04T10:42:33Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-04T10:43:22Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-04T10:43:44Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T10:43:46Z clickycode77 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-04T10:45:06Z ak5 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T10:48:30Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-04T10:48:45Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T10:50:33Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-04T10:53:20Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-04T10:54:13Z froggey joined #lisp
2017-01-04T10:56:11Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-04T10:58:28Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-04T11:04:25Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-04T11:04:32Z ozzloy quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-04T11:04:49Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2017-01-04T11:04:49Z ozzloy quit (Changing host)
2017-01-04T11:04:49Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2017-01-04T11:07:00Z dpg quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-04T11:07:22Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-04T11:07:32Z macdavid313 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T11:08:44Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T11:08:54Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T11:13:59Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-04T11:18:37Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T11:20:17Z Xach: hjudt: you can get some more portability by using internal-time-units-per-second instead of 1000.
2017-01-04T11:20:41Z Xach: hjudt: I don't understand why it's a loop instead of a simple assignment. Can you explain?
2017-01-04T11:29:04Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-04T11:38:51Z Walex joined #lisp
2017-01-04T11:41:22Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T11:41:22Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-04T11:41:25Z dpg quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T11:43:05Z Cymew joined #lisp
2017-01-04T11:56:03Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T11:56:05Z MrBismuth joined #lisp
2017-01-04T11:58:07Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T11:59:02Z yeticry joined #lisp
2017-01-04T12:02:28Z stardiviner quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-04T12:13:46Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-04T12:21:14Z dmiles quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T12:23:19Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-04T12:25:04Z johs quit (Quit: .)
2017-01-04T12:25:19Z johs joined #lisp
2017-01-04T12:26:40Z johs quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-04T12:28:29Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-04T12:30:06Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2017-01-04T12:30:21Z macdavid314 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T12:31:53Z dmiles joined #lisp
2017-01-04T12:32:52Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T12:32:58Z macdavid314 is now known as macdavid313
2017-01-04T12:33:30Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-04T12:36:10Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-04T12:39:33Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T12:40:54Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-04T12:41:25Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T12:47:00Z Amplituhedron quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T12:47:54Z flip214_: Is there something similar to parenscript that produces LUA sources from CL?
2017-01-04T12:48:17Z Zhivago: Do people still use Lua?
2017-01-04T12:49:21Z flip214_: some things can accept lua plugins but not anything else
2017-01-04T12:50:22Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-04T12:50:42Z Zhivago: I can't imagine that it would be very difficult to write an s-exp to lua transform.
2017-01-04T12:55:28Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-04T12:57:54Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T13:00:12Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T13:02:13Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:02:53Z d4ryus quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-04T13:05:22Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:05:32Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:08:00Z macdavid313 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T13:08:56Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:09:52Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T13:12:52Z pegu joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:14:19Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2017-01-04T13:14:19Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:14:19Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2017-01-04T13:14:19Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:14:48Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:15:01Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-04T13:17:36Z macdavid313 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T13:17:38Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:17:40Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T13:18:03Z Xach: flip214_: there is nothing that exists.
2017-01-04T13:18:09Z Xach: flip214_: it sounds like an interesting project
2017-01-04T13:18:43Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:19:43Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-04T13:19:47Z madmalik joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:23:47Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:24:51Z My_Hearing quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T13:27:36Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:28:44Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:29:20Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T13:30:20Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:30:29Z john-mcaleely_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:30:29Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T13:31:48Z john-mcaleely_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-04T13:32:25Z Denommus joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:35:10Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:36:39Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:37:59Z kevin1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:38:30Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T13:39:17Z Xach: hjudt: the suspense is killing me
2017-01-04T13:39:40Z Zhivago quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-04T13:40:24Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:43:33Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T13:43:54Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:43:59Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:47:00Z fare__ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:47:34Z flip214_: help for abcl, please.
2017-01-04T13:47:36Z flip214_: Running ABCL and calling (ql:quickload :hunchentoot) gives me "Don't know how to REQUIRE ABCL-CONTRIB." even though the .jar is in the current directory.
2017-01-04T13:47:54Z flip214_: how can I tell it where to look?
2017-01-04T13:50:19Z FareTower quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T13:50:21Z travv0 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T13:51:26Z macdavid313 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T13:51:52Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:53:58Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:55:56Z fare__: if it's about jars, maybe by specifying the classpath?
2017-01-04T13:56:21Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:57:15Z dpg quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T13:58:41Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:59:10Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T13:59:39Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-04T13:59:56Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T14:02:39Z hjudt: Xach: sorry for delay, didn't want to hurt your nerves ;-) as for delay, i thought there might be a delay between the two calls and the offset calc might be wrong, so there's that loop to make sure two calcs match. but loke is right, the better idea will be to use local-time
2017-01-04T14:02:47Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T14:04:12Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T14:04:31Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-04T14:05:01Z easye quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-04T14:05:20Z hjudt: and you're right about the internal-time-units-per-second var, i have seen it but simply forgotten about it. anyway, i have dropped that code already.
2017-01-04T14:05:57Z developer joined #lisp
2017-01-04T14:07:40Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-04T14:11:05Z easye joined #lisp
2017-01-04T14:11:45Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-04T14:12:16Z dpg quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-04T14:15:01Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-04T14:19:22Z mrottenkolber1 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T14:21:28Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-04T14:22:21Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-04T14:23:09Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-04T14:28:22Z jmignault joined #lisp
2017-01-04T14:28:33Z fare__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-04T14:30:47Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-04T14:31:02Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T14:31:04Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-04T14:32:46Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-04T14:34:04Z flip214_: shouldn't the current directory be in the classpath anyway?
2017-01-04T14:36:32Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-04T14:38:46Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T14:39:38Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T14:39:40Z mrottenkolber1 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-04T14:41:12Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-04T14:41:28Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T14:41:50Z Xach joined #lisp
2017-01-04T14:42:17Z H4ns: flip214_: the jvm does not have a concept of "the current directory"
2017-01-04T14:42:34Z H4ns: flip214_: consequently, the current directory is not in the classpath
2017-01-04T14:42:47Z H4ns: they went into length explaining that as being the right thing back in the day.
2017-01-04T14:43:12Z flip214_: oh, okay.
2017-01-04T14:45:35Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T14:45:41Z flip214_: thanks
2017-01-04T14:49:01Z flip214_: hmmm, pointing CLASSPATH to the file or the containing directory doesn't work either
2017-01-04T14:49:40Z H4ns: flip214_: did you use an absolute path?
2017-01-04T14:50:36Z theethicalegoist quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-04T14:51:29Z flip214_: yes
2017-01-04T14:51:38Z flip214_ is now known as flip214
2017-01-04T14:53:09Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T14:54:16Z flip214: ASDF:*CENTRAL-REGISTRY* doesn't help either
2017-01-04T15:03:11Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:05:35Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T15:05:43Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-04T15:09:56Z pkkm left #lisp
2017-01-04T15:10:11Z sjl__ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:10:26Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:13:02Z Zhivago joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:13:17Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-04T15:13:18Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T15:14:12Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:14:56Z Zhivago quit (Changing host)
2017-01-04T15:14:56Z Zhivago joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:15:45Z sjl__ is now known as sjl
2017-01-04T15:20:43Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:20:46Z jonesy joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:20:54Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:21:24Z jonesy: i want to have top-level variable in that is private to a file/function. is this the way to go? http://paste.lisp.org/display/335709
2017-01-04T15:23:49Z jmignault quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T15:25:29Z warweasle quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.4.1)
2017-01-04T15:26:26Z pjb: jonesy: this is a way to do it, but that makes the function a closure, which may be inconvenient. Also, it's more difficult to inspect this variable with the debugger.
2017-01-04T15:26:39Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:26:49Z pjb: jonesy: so it may be more practical to (defparameter %foo% "foo")
2017-01-04T15:27:05Z pjb: jonesy: notice the use of % instead of *, to indicate that it's a "private" variable.
2017-01-04T15:27:17Z nowhereman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T15:27:18Z nopf quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T15:27:33Z jonesy: inconvenient when could it be inconvenient?
2017-01-04T15:27:41Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:27:47Z jonesy: pjb cool, didn't know about %
2017-01-04T15:27:55Z nopf joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:29:16Z pjb: jonesy: well the inconvenience is theorical: it would be easier to serialize a function than a closure (which may contain multiple functions).  But since the only standard way to do it is via COMPILE-FILE, indeed it the only visible difference will be with the debugger and inspectability of the variable.
2017-01-04T15:29:28Z H4ns: jonesy: why worry about private?
2017-01-04T15:29:48Z H4ns: jonesy: just make the variable be a special variable and don't export the symbol, then it will be private enough.
2017-01-04T15:30:07Z jonesy: H4ns to avoid poluting namespace and to not allow user to set it directly and mess things up by doing it wrong
2017-01-04T15:30:31Z jonesy: Symbol's function definition is void: defparameter
2017-01-04T15:30:35Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T15:30:49Z pjb: jonesy: are you programming in emacs lisp?
2017-01-04T15:31:08Z H4ns: jonesy: don't worry about "pollution", and also don't worry about the user messing it up.
2017-01-04T15:31:11Z pjb: jonesy: then: (defmacro defparameter (symbol &optional initvalue docstring) `(progn (defvar ,symbol nil ,docstring) (setq   ,symbol ,initvalue)))
2017-01-04T15:31:15Z H4ns: jonesy: in general: don't worry :)
2017-01-04T15:31:48Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:32:01Z jonesy: pjb yes emacs lisp
2017-01-04T15:32:36Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T15:32:36Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-04T15:33:19Z zooey quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T15:33:27Z blackwolf joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:33:57Z jonesy: pjb % doesn't seem to have any effect though. variable is still accessible
2017-01-04T15:34:18Z beach: jonesy: I am afraid you are in the wrong channel then.  This channel is dedicated to Common Lisp.
2017-01-04T15:34:20Z H4ns: jonesy: by making your variable a special variable and not exporting its name, you're making your intent clear enough.
2017-01-04T15:34:36Z beach: jonesy: Common Lisp has a package system that is meant for that kind of stuff.
2017-01-04T15:34:37Z m_zr0 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:35:51Z beach: H4ns: Does Emacs Lisp have packages?  It didn't use to.
2017-01-04T15:37:20Z jonesy: beach I see
2017-01-04T15:37:30Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:38:06Z pjb: jonesy: yes, the variable is still accessible, which is important to let you debug it. But since it has those % surrounding its name, people will be very afraid to use it.
2017-01-04T15:38:22Z H4ns: oh, emacs lisp.
2017-01-04T15:39:16Z pjb: jonesy: and unfortunately, emacs lisp doesn't have a package system similar to CL.  But you could implement one based on obarray. Then you'd only need to extend the reader.
2017-01-04T15:39:50Z jonesy: what are packages in this context? something like namespaces?
2017-01-04T15:39:55Z pjb: jonesy: but with macros you could still define variables in different obarrays and reference them.
2017-01-04T15:39:58Z jonesy: I missed those in emacs lisp
2017-01-04T15:40:02Z pjb: jonesy: yes, namespaces.
2017-01-04T15:40:29Z pjb: jonesy: so, name it: jonesy-mypackage--%foo% to avoid collisions.
2017-01-04T15:41:05Z jonesy: i am doing something similar for all my functions and vars
2017-01-04T15:42:11Z jonesy: just a bit annoying that i have to type "namespace" *all* the time
2017-01-04T15:43:06Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:43:21Z developer left #lisp
2017-01-04T15:44:09Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:44:49Z beach: jonesy: I suggest you program in Common Lisp instead.  That way your problem will be on topic as well.
2017-01-04T15:46:46Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:47:13Z ducasse quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-04T15:47:29Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-04T15:47:57Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:49:21Z mrottenkolber1 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:50:42Z ducasse joined #lisp
2017-01-04T15:51:52Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-04T15:53:34Z zeitue quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T15:55:19Z pjb: jonesy: perhaps you could take this opportunity to wrap libecl.so into an emacs plugin module, so you would be able to run Common Lisp code from emacs?
2017-01-04T15:56:05Z pjb: jonesy: the alternative is to use emacs-cl, which is a Common Lisp implementation on emacs lisp, but it has bit rotten since the introduction of lexical binding in emacs; it'd need an overhaul.
2017-01-04T16:03:36Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-04T16:06:26Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-04T16:08:27Z scymtym quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T16:08:56Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-04T16:09:00Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-04T16:09:32Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-04T16:10:17Z ducasse quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T16:10:50Z jonesy: hmm, i can't really see the value in using common lisp to extend emacs? is anyone actually doing that?
2017-01-04T16:12:28Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-04T16:15:53Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-04T16:18:29Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-04T16:19:06Z kevin1999 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-04T16:19:38Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-04T16:20:10Z Benjx joined #lisp
2017-01-04T16:21:56Z pjb: jonesy: not yet. But eventually.
2017-01-04T16:22:12Z mrottenkolber1 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T16:22:12Z pjb: jonesy: the value would be to not have to qualify all the symbols with your namespace!
2017-01-04T16:22:12Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-04T16:22:27Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-04T16:26:28Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-04T16:28:34Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-04T16:30:33Z jonesy quit (Quit: CGI:IRC)
2017-01-04T16:30:52Z jonesy joined #lisp
2017-01-04T16:30:55Z jonesy: pjb true
2017-01-04T16:32:01Z jonesy: maybe elisp will gain namespaces/packages though
2017-01-04T16:32:19Z jonesy: just like it gained lexical binding
2017-01-04T16:32:37Z jonesy: is there a cl emacs project like guille emacs?
2017-01-04T16:33:13Z jonesy: guile
2017-01-04T16:33:32Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T16:34:22Z pjb: possibly.
2017-01-04T16:34:23Z phadthai: there is climacs
2017-01-04T16:34:29Z phadthai: I've never tried it
2017-01-04T16:34:37Z pjb: and there's Hemlock.
2017-01-04T16:35:09Z pjb: jonesy: but the only variant of Hemlock that's really usable is the one embedded in Clozure CL.app  (ccl on MacOSX).
2017-01-04T16:35:19Z mood: Guile Emacs implements Elisp, unlike Climacs, Hemlock, etc. I'm not aware of anything similar in CL
2017-01-04T16:35:32Z pjb: hemlock implements elisp.
2017-01-04T16:35:42Z pjb: But implementing elisp is not sufficient.
2017-01-04T16:35:42Z mood: Does it? Wow, I never knew
2017-01-04T16:36:18Z pjb: You need elisp, the emacs data structures, the emacs C libraries, and then to port the emacs lisp libraries.
2017-01-04T16:38:07Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-04T16:38:37Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T16:39:16Z jonesy quit (Quit: CGI:IRC)
2017-01-04T16:39:44Z jonsesy23 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T16:42:35Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-04T16:44:05Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-04T16:51:21Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-04T16:52:28Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2017-01-04T16:53:51Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T16:54:03Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-04T16:57:08Z swflint quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2017-01-04T16:59:00Z azzamsa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T17:02:45Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T17:04:40Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:04:45Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T17:05:31Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:05:34Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:06:19Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:08:21Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:15:47Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:19:24Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T17:19:39Z Benjx quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T17:19:51Z Xach joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:21:18Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:21:57Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T17:22:07Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:24:00Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:24:44Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:26:04Z emaczen: If I override initialize-instance and then call shared-initialize, what should I pass to the second argument of shared-initialize?
2017-01-04T17:26:40Z beach: I don't think you are allowed to override the primary method of INITIALIZE-INSTANCE.
2017-01-04T17:27:00Z emaczen: beach: You can
2017-01-04T17:27:02Z drl joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:27:23Z emaczen: Maybe I mean specialize though
2017-01-04T17:27:35Z drl quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-04T17:27:40Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:28:05Z beach: Hmm, I think I must be misremembering.
2017-01-04T17:28:28Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:28:46Z beach: You can pass T as the second argument.
2017-01-04T17:28:52Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:29:35Z emaczen: beach: that sounds right -- I've done this before but just couldn't remember what I did
2017-01-04T17:30:19Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-04T17:32:03Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-04T17:32:21Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T17:33:06Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:35:02Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T17:41:31Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:44:02Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T17:44:13Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:47:55Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:48:35Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:48:36Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T17:48:37Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-04T17:50:56Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-04T17:51:09Z aindilis2 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T17:53:16Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-04T17:54:41Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-04T17:57:17Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:00:37Z PlasmaStar quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-04T18:01:54Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:02:41Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:04:03Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:04:43Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:04:45Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:05:09Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T18:07:40Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T18:07:44Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:07:52Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:10:21Z tharugrim joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:10:51Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:12:55Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:15:16Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T18:15:47Z bocaneri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T18:17:34Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T18:20:35Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T18:24:00Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T18:24:24Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:27:45Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:31:10Z MrBismuth is now known as MrBusiness
2017-01-04T18:31:36Z MrBusiness is now known as ArcMrBismuth
2017-01-04T18:31:46Z ArcMrBismuth is now known as MrBusiness
2017-01-04T18:36:29Z flip214: When my HANDLER-CASE receives some condition (eg. an ERROR), how can I retrieve the textual message?
2017-01-04T18:36:31Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-04T18:37:02Z flip214: (STRING ) says "< ...> is not a string designator"
2017-01-04T18:37:23Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-04T18:37:37Z jackdaniel: (print error my-string-stream)
2017-01-04T18:37:55Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-04T18:38:04Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:38:54Z jackdaniel: princ °
2017-01-04T18:42:21Z lambda-smith quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-04T18:42:24Z Xach: (princ-to-string error) also
2017-01-04T18:44:07Z flip214: jackdaniel: Xach: yeah, thanks.
2017-01-04T18:44:26Z flip214: can I get a backtrace of the offending code, too?
2017-01-04T18:44:45Z jackdaniel: not portably
2017-01-04T18:45:01Z jackdaniel: trivial-backtrace or uiop can give you that I think
2017-01-04T18:45:07Z flip214: well, (invoke-debugger) is even better ;)
2017-01-04T18:45:29Z Xach: Why do you want to look at the textual message and invoke the debugger from the handler?
2017-01-04T18:46:22Z flip214: well, I need the textual message to relay it back from the API I'm writing.
2017-01-04T18:46:45Z flip214: and invoking the debugger would be nice to find out why and where I get the (unexpected) error in the first place
2017-01-04T18:47:24Z flip214: hmm, is handler-case too late to give me the original code location?
2017-01-04T18:48:02Z flip214: the (invoke-debugger) call puts me in the (handler-case) part
2017-01-04T18:48:09Z Bike: handler case unwinds, yeah
2017-01-04T18:48:29Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T18:48:54Z flip214: Bike: is there something that doesn't?
2017-01-04T18:49:00Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:49:00Z flip214: handler-bind will do so, too?
2017-01-04T18:49:01Z Bike: handler bind
2017-01-04T18:49:37Z Bike: i think what xach was alluding to is that you don't usually need to call invoke-debugger because that's just what happens if the condition isn't handled
2017-01-04T18:50:09Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T18:51:06Z flip214: yeah, but a macro in the (generated) apis _does_ catch all errors, so that it can return a failure code
2017-01-04T18:51:47Z Bike: if you call invoke-debugger it won't return
2017-01-04T18:52:02Z tharugrim quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-04T18:52:33Z flip214: I just changed the T in handler-case to a NIL, now I get the debugger at the right location.
2017-01-04T18:52:39Z flip214: thanks for all the help!
2017-01-04T18:52:39Z Bike: if by "return" you mean it stores it somewhere you could set up a handler (with handler bind) that stores and then doesn't handle the condition so that the debugger is entered normally
2017-01-04T18:52:56Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:53:25Z flip214: can I have the catch-all T in the handler-case calculated, like as (WE-ARE-IN-PRODUCTION) ?
2017-01-04T18:53:35Z flip214: like the expression in COND clauses
2017-01-04T18:53:48Z flip214: But I guess that's not possible here, because it's only a type and not even quoted
2017-01-04T18:54:00Z phoe_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-04T18:54:25Z jackdaniel: every condition is a subclass of T
2017-01-04T18:54:32Z jackdaniel: subtype°
2017-01-04T18:54:45Z Bike: you could use a feature, or a janky satisfies type
2017-01-04T18:55:08Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-04T18:55:53Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-04T18:56:53Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T18:57:27Z flip214: oh, yeah, a satiesfies function might be the best idea - then I can _dynamically_ check whether swank is connected!
2017-01-04T18:57:33Z flip214: great idea, thanks a lot!
2017-01-04T19:00:41Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:03:03Z raynold: ahh it's a wonderful day
2017-01-04T19:05:52Z Reinisch_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:05:55Z Reinisch_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-04T19:06:05Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:07:54Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:08:07Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:08:21Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-04T19:08:57Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:11:46Z scottj quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-04T19:12:53Z fraya joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:15:09Z akkad hunts for cl help via paypal
2017-01-04T19:20:14Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-04T19:21:32Z axion: akkad: ?
2017-01-04T19:23:54Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:24:27Z Reinisch is now known as Reinisch_
2017-01-04T19:24:48Z akkad: axion: looking for cl help on a opensource project, and am willing to pay to get unblocked. :P
2017-01-04T19:25:15Z Reinisch_ is now known as Reinisch
2017-01-04T19:25:21Z axion: I may be free, depending on the task. You can /query me to describe it
2017-01-04T19:26:17Z akkad: figure paying for freeware work is cheaper than closed source apps
2017-01-04T19:27:44Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:28:46Z drmeister: There doesn't seem to be any cap on the value of *read-base* - is there a reasonable value to cap it at?  (I'm asking in #lisp as well)
2017-01-04T19:29:06Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:29:52Z quadresce: Anyone have recommendations on how to check if a pathname has any relative components, like ".."?
2017-01-04T19:30:19Z flip214: quadresce: as a string, or PATHNAMEP?
2017-01-04T19:30:27Z quadresce: any pathname designator
2017-01-04T19:30:40Z emaczen quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2017-01-04T19:30:43Z quadresce: Look for :UP in PATHNAME-DIRECTORY?
2017-01-04T19:30:46Z flip214: (pathname-directory #P"../") (:RELATIVE :UP)
2017-01-04T19:30:55Z flip214: guess so
2017-01-04T19:31:05Z axion: uiop/pathname:relative-pathname-p
2017-01-04T19:32:05Z quadresce: axion, relative-pathname-p checks for any non-absolute path
2017-01-04T19:32:16Z quadresce: "./foo/bar.txt" is relative, for example
2017-01-04T19:32:19Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T19:32:54Z axion: I took the question as not starting with an absolute component, but ok :)
2017-01-04T19:34:13Z quadresce: I guess that's reasonable, I made it sound like ".." was just an example.
2017-01-04T19:34:47Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:34:50Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z marsjaninzmarsa quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z MoALTz quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z specbot quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z sword quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z gigetoo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z mathrick quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z mach quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z larme quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z larsen quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z justinabrahms quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z hydraz quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z switchy quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z phoe quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z mnoonan quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z guaqua quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z djh quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z PuercoPop quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z zagura quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z mikaelj quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z fouric quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z stux|RC quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z dlowe quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z samebchase quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z sshirokov quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z felideon quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z wizzo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z copec quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:03Z tokik quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T19:36:09Z samebcha1e joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:12Z zagura joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:12Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:14Z sshirokov joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:14Z hydraz joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:14Z guaqua joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:15Z marsjaninzmarsa joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:16Z mikaelj joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:16Z phoe joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:16Z djh joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:17Z justinabrahms_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:17Z tokik joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:19Z fouric joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:19Z specbot joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:22Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:23Z copec joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:25Z dlowe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:27Z mathrick joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:28Z mnoonan joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:30Z hydraz quit (Changing host)
2017-01-04T19:36:31Z hydraz joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:33Z quadresce: I guess looking for :UP or :BACK is what I'm to do.
2017-01-04T19:36:37Z dlowe_ is now known as dlowe
2017-01-04T19:36:37Z wizzo joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:39Z felideon joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:36:55Z switchy joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:37:10Z larsen joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:37:11Z mach joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:37:13Z sword joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:37:41Z larme joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:37:42Z stux|RC-only joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:38:28Z ghostlight quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T19:39:13Z jonsesy23 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T19:39:32Z ggherdov quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T19:40:18Z angular_mike_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T19:42:21Z ggherdov joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:42:52Z angular_mike_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:43:01Z TDT quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-04T19:43:08Z ggherdov quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-04T19:43:56Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-04T19:44:12Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:44:42Z ggherdov joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:45:44Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T19:46:07Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T19:47:14Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:47:31Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:49:34Z White_Flame: Is a tilde the only magic character that FORMAT ever deals with?  If I have arbitrary (trusted but non-technical) user-supplied strings to use as format specifiers, is there anything else to watch out for?
2017-01-04T19:50:38Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-04T19:51:56Z quadresce: White_Flame, all directives known to FORMAT start with a tilde
2017-01-04T19:52:27Z quadresce: White_Flame, But ~/NAME/ can call arbitrary functions
2017-01-04T19:52:31Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-04T19:53:05Z Bike: "non-technical"?
2017-01-04T19:53:08Z White_Flame: my instructions to the operator are just "put ~a where you want the info embedded, don't use tildes elsewhere"
2017-01-04T19:53:16Z White_Flame: lazy solution
2017-01-04T19:53:17Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:53:35Z quadresce: White_Flame, Why not just make a function to replace, say, @ with ~A or something like that in the string?
2017-01-04T19:53:47Z White_Flame: see above
2017-01-04T19:55:48Z fraya quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T19:57:31Z quadresce: White_Flame, I consider this to be a lazy minimum http://paste.lisp.org/display/335729
2017-01-04T19:58:17Z ghostlight joined #lisp
2017-01-04T19:59:01Z Bike: no escape?
2017-01-04T19:59:35Z quadresce: no tildes allowed!
2017-01-04T20:00:18Z Cthulhux quit (Changing host)
2017-01-04T20:00:18Z Cthulhux joined #lisp
2017-01-04T20:02:33Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2017-01-04T20:03:42Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-04T20:09:30Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T20:12:30Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-04T20:12:32Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-04T20:21:00Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T20:23:33Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-04T20:28:06Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-04T20:33:22Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-04T20:36:45Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-04T20:38:08Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-04T20:38:12Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-04T20:38:22Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-04T20:40:08Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T20:41:00Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T20:46:42Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-04T20:50:04Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T20:50:31Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-04T20:51:01Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-04T20:52:23Z Denommus quit (Quit: going home)
2017-01-04T20:52:30Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T20:52:44Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-04T20:52:58Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-04T20:53:39Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-04T20:56:39Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T20:57:30Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-04T20:59:16Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T20:59:44Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-04T21:05:46Z jdz joined #lisp
2017-01-04T21:17:01Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T21:20:46Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-04T21:23:13Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-04T21:23:54Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-04T21:24:51Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T21:30:09Z Xach uses a tilde 
2017-01-04T21:30:26Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T21:31:57Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T21:32:02Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-04T21:36:03Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T21:36:07Z Ven_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T21:41:30Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T21:42:42Z papachan is now known as _papachan
2017-01-04T21:44:26Z Ven_ quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-04T21:47:34Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T21:47:37Z kobain quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T21:48:01Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-04T21:48:45Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-04T21:52:11Z gabnet joined #lisp
2017-01-04T21:52:13Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-04T21:54:06Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2017-01-04T21:54:38Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-04T21:55:46Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-04T22:01:37Z gabnet quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ))
2017-01-04T22:04:54Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T22:06:02Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-04T22:11:25Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T22:12:12Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T22:19:05Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2017-01-04T22:19:54Z zooey quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-04T22:22:45Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T22:27:54Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T22:29:22Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-04T22:32:18Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-04T22:35:08Z aeth: I shouldn't expect any consing if I make a typed array that's local to the scope of a function, right?
2017-01-04T22:35:21Z aeth: Because (elt foo 0) is a lot clearer than foo-0, especially when there are four different foos
2017-01-04T22:36:37Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T22:36:38Z aeth: sb-sprof doesn't appear to count any allocs there, if I'm reading it properly
2017-01-04T22:38:32Z aeth: (It's not portable to every CL, obviously, but I'm just wondering if it's an assumption I can make because people who are for some reason using very slow CLs probably aren't going to care anyway.)
2017-01-04T22:40:04Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-04T22:44:05Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-04T22:45:27Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-04T22:50:29Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T22:50:47Z Bike: sbcl manual says arrays can be allocated dynamic-extent if they're simple, one dimensional, and have constant element-type.
2017-01-04T22:50:57Z aeth: yes, I was reading that
2017-01-04T22:51:27Z aeth: Is only SBCL not going to cons or do other Lisps behave similarly?
2017-01-04T22:51:31Z adlai: for a probabilistically-portable performance poost, (declare (dynamic-extent your-array))
2017-01-04T22:51:42Z aeth: ah
2017-01-04T22:51:52Z Bike: i don't know if other lisps document it as much
2017-01-04T22:52:05Z Bike: but yeah, declaring it dynamic-extent tells the implementation to stack allocate if it can
2017-01-04T22:52:45Z aeth: wow, that actually changed the massive pile of assembly somewhere
2017-01-04T22:52:50Z aeth: 2489 bytes instead of 2469
2017-01-04T22:53:01Z Bike: that sounds like enough for an alloca.
2017-01-04T22:54:13Z Bike: i see at least one place in the ccl source where an allocated string is declared dynamic-extent, which might indicate that it can do that
2017-01-04T22:54:51Z aeth: well, s-prof still shows 0 directly in the function so it doesn't look like it's *hurting* SBCL
2017-01-04T22:55:05Z aeth: That would be a nightmare... if portably doing it hurt SBCL
2017-01-04T22:55:13Z aeth: s/s-prof/sprof/
2017-01-04T22:55:44Z blackwolf quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2017-01-04T22:57:05Z ccl-logbot joined #lisp
2017-01-04T22:57:05Z 
2017-01-04T22:57:05Z names: ccl-logbot Harag zooey DeadTrickster sz0 kobain dilated_dinosaur scymtym BlueRavenGT pjb jdz gigetoo sellout- EvW ovenpasta ghostlight ggherdov angular_mike_ stux|RC-only larme sword mach larsen switchy felideon wizzo mnoonan mathrick dlowe copec specbot fouric tokik justinabrahms_ djh phoe mikaelj marsjaninzmarsa guaqua hydraz sshirokov PuercoPop zagura samebcha1e quadresce wildlander Lord_of_Life varjag raynold robotoad PlasmaStar Reinisch nowhereman
2017-01-04T22:57:05Z names: knicklux Bike manuel_ Karl_Dscc moei Xach ryanwatkins Josh_2 zygentoma ChrisOei travv0 Jesin schjetne pierpa m_zr0 nopf oleo aries_liuxueyang Zhivago gingerale mada cibs al-damiri easye terpri stepnem d4ryus madmalik pegu Amplituhedron dmiles krasnal yeticry MrBusiness Cymew Walex ozzloy froggey ak5 dddddd marcoecc Omarnem0[m] Jach[m] Tetsuo[m] RichardPaulBck[m harlequin78[m] M-Illandan lugus35[m] M-moredhel Oladon adlai djinni` nicdev Khisanth heurist
2017-01-04T22:57:05Z names: Blkt fe[nl]ix nrp3c cpt_nemo H4ns danlentz gz_ l1x MorTal1ty schoppenhauer fluter creat ft frug72_ ym ogkloo sukaeto lieven josh5tone tessier boxxlab abbe Zotan Mandus jackc Cthulhux Tordek john-mcaleely kushal finnrobi _papachan cpc26 clog les borodust vkashyap bounb reepca thinkpad GGMethos impulse mbrock beach tfb AeroNotix isoraqathedh megalography kbtr watersoul_ jurov taij33n White_Flame misv Guest59936 Colleen minion cmatei splittist Subfusc mklk
2017-01-04T22:57:05Z names: Sigyn Blukunfando Tristam drot cpape antoszka foom rotty rebelshrug k4rtik kilimanjaro makufiru LyndsySimon banjiewen mjl unrahul lancetw asedeno rvirding velvetcore zacts opt9 danieli SCHAAP137 setheus deank krrrcks dan64- voidlily troydm vaporatorius lonjil msmith jean377 __main__ lnostdal QualityAddict alandipert neuro_sys wooden_ holly2 vibs29 dcluna Quadrescence xantoz nimiux razzy housel Guest57693 itruslove peccu1 peterhil fkac srcerer cyraxjoe
2017-01-04T22:57:05Z names: CrazyEddy shymega aaronjensen Xof p_l gabiruh lpaste SiCC ircbrowse pchrist ecraven ferada snits tkd lxpz nullx002- e o`connor_ TeMPOraL cebreidian amoe tobel trig-ger rann eschatologist kini axion roscoe_tw davsebamse AntiSpamMeta fjl_ fitzsim aeth ski beaky norfumpit koisoke loke` akkad pacon Firedancer shikhin askatasuna ramus Nikotiini detergnet flip214 WojciechK funnel Patzy anachrom1 pankracy_ SAL9000 eMBee ck_ ineiros forgot Kaisyu phadthai
2017-01-04T22:57:05Z names: libre-man pjstirling omilu joast arbv jibanes drmeister gabot lemoinem gko brandonz jmasseo killmaster TruePika neuri8 Lord_Nightmare fiddlerwoaroof vhost- unbalancedparen chavezgu TMA rpav sebboh N3vYn Posterdati arrdem jasom jackdaniel paroneayea nullman Ober sbryant grindhold trn drdo kjeldahl cyberlard CEnnis91 SlashLife tephra habs xristos ``Erik _death derrida nydel vert2 tmc whartung cantstanya yeltzooo d4gg4d kolko zymurgy redcedar fulon Oddity
2017-01-04T22:57:05Z names: mrSpec emerson Neet_ des_consolado z0d emma vlnx_ gendl mtd sepi`` toogley eagleflo gbyers wyan Glitchy NhanH sigjuice arrsim nhandler whiteline cross tiago Karunamon alms_clozure alphor pent_ zkat jsnell Urfin_ vsync |3b| XachX billstclair eschulte payphone heddwch tanuzzo brucem jself sohail zerac otwieracz j0ni pok joga leo_song newcup Hoolootwo rjeli qlkzy tilpner cods tokenrove cmpitg mood theBlackDragon tomaw solene hjudt mordocai luis raydeejay
2017-01-04T22:57:05Z names: benny justinmcp arpunk ec\ fluxit Fade renard_ knobo pareidolia loke kjak yrdz eazar001 seg
2017-01-04T22:57:22Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T22:57:49Z akkad: Bike yes
2017-01-04T22:57:56Z aeth: Afaik, the only other Lisp that I wouldn't have to pay an arm and a leg for that supports all of the features required is ABCL, but I haven't been able to get it running to test it because of the JVM complexities. There's also a few others like Clasp, which don't have the features yet.
2017-01-04T22:58:05Z Bike: asdf:compile-op exists for me in 3.1.5
2017-01-04T22:59:17Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T22:59:19Z Bike: and it is still exported by asdf/lisp-action on github
2017-01-04T22:59:19Z akkad: ok namespace i see. thanks
2017-01-04T23:01:23Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:01:31Z akkad: perfect thanks. will review the asdf methods andf fix this up
2017-01-04T23:02:54Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-04T23:04:26Z madmalik quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-04T23:08:38Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:09:19Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:13:23Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:13:54Z coyo joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:13:54Z coyo quit (Changing host)
2017-01-04T23:13:54Z coyo joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:17:15Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-04T23:17:21Z himmAllRight17 joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:20:00Z himmAllRight quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-04T23:26:36Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T23:27:25Z ryan__ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:30:00Z himmAllRight17 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-04T23:31:33Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:33:12Z libre-man quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-04T23:33:55Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:34:14Z jmarciano quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T23:34:43Z Reinisch_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:36:34Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-04T23:36:35Z Reinisch_ is now known as Reinisch
2017-01-04T23:37:04Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:39:01Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-04T23:40:04Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-04T23:41:46Z Reinisch quit (Quit: Have a great day!)
2017-01-04T23:42:14Z knicklux quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-04T23:42:27Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:49:02Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:54:52Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:55:05Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:56:43Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-04T23:57:31Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-04T23:59:46Z chzyhndz joined #lisp
2017-01-04T23:59:52Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-05T00:00:59Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:04:36Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T00:07:26Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-05T00:08:48Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:10:07Z wizzo quit (Changing host)
2017-01-05T00:10:07Z wizzo joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:12:31Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T00:12:39Z Reinisch quit (Quit: Have a great day!)
2017-01-05T00:12:53Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:13:27Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:14:41Z switchy quit (Quit: Bye!)
2017-01-05T00:16:00Z switchy joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:17:22Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:17:27Z kobain quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-05T00:17:53Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:23:30Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-05T00:23:55Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-05T00:24:27Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:26:23Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:29:30Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T00:32:19Z scottj joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:34:19Z robotoad quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T00:34:28Z daniel-s quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T00:35:04Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:35:30Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T00:35:32Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:37:53Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-05T00:41:24Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:43:57Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T00:44:28Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:44:46Z e quit (Quit: edk)
2017-01-05T00:47:13Z e joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:53:59Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-05T00:54:24Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T00:57:11Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:59:19Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-05T00:59:40Z malice: Does standard forbid one from defining macro in non-toplevel form, e.g. function?
2017-01-05T01:00:02Z malice: (defun x () (define-compiler-macro foo ()))
2017-01-05T01:00:09Z malice: would invoking X create a compiler-macro FOO?
2017-01-05T01:01:42Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-05T01:01:50Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-05T01:02:25Z PuercoPop: malice: any reason why not define it as a top level form?
2017-01-05T01:02:59Z malice: curiosity
2017-01-05T01:03:08Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-05T01:03:27Z malice: I'm asking because I want to know if compiler that does not create a binding has a bug
2017-01-05T01:03:41Z PuercoPop: malice: from the defmacro entry at the very least it wouldn't be expanded in any later occurrences in the file
2017-01-05T01:03:56Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T01:03:57Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-05T01:04:22Z jean377 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-05T01:04:29Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T01:04:34Z malice: how about REPL?
2017-01-05T01:05:14Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-05T01:07:41Z PuercoPop: malice: I'm not very knowledgeable on the intricacies of CL(HS), so I don't know. But given than compiler macros can decline to expand, it seems counter intuitive to have them in the middle of a function, plus they give the wrong impression (that they are local to the defun, like in scheme)
2017-01-05T01:08:27Z malice: Yeah, I am aware of that problem. I do not intend to use it as a feature
2017-01-05T01:08:33Z pjb: malice: a-priori, a function body is executed only when the function is called, at run-time. This is millenaries after compilation time. In all probabilities, the compiler doesn't even exist anymore!
2017-01-05T01:08:35Z malice: I want to know how a conforming compiler should behave
2017-01-05T01:08:40Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T01:09:07Z malice: pjb: is there a clear distinction between these times in REPL?
2017-01-05T01:09:22Z malice: how about progn with define-compiler-macro and then a call to this macro?
2017-01-05T01:09:25Z pjb: No, not in the REPL. And also, you could call f at compilation time.
2017-01-05T01:09:59Z pjb: But this is still strange to put  def* in a def*.  def*s are for toplevel.
2017-01-05T01:11:19Z malice: I just want to know whether to report a bug or not :)
2017-01-05T01:11:26Z malice: SBCL works with defun
2017-01-05T01:11:54Z malice: and progn
2017-01-05T01:12:01Z malice: ECL does not work with both
2017-01-05T01:12:14Z malice: I want to know whether both are conforming, or one, and which one is.
2017-01-05T01:13:43Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-05T01:13:45Z PuercoPop: (progn (define-compiler-macro ..)) should definitely work
2017-01-05T01:15:00Z PuercoPop: as progn preserves the 'top-level-ness' (And there are valid use cases, ej a defmacro expanding into a defun + its compiler-macro
2017-01-05T01:15:23Z mach quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T01:16:20Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-05T01:17:42Z malice: Okay, thanks!
2017-01-05T01:24:12Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T01:26:04Z pjb: That said, clhs define-compiler-macro doesn't describe compilation-time vs. run-time side effects, so I would say that even when not evaluated as a toplevel form we should get all the effects, as long as it's done at compilation time (with eval-when).
2017-01-05T01:27:24Z Bike: wow, what? that seems like a spec bug, that it doesn't work specially at top level
2017-01-05T01:27:48Z stevegt_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T01:29:37Z pjb: What would it need to do specially at the toplevel?
2017-01-05T01:30:23Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-05T01:30:31Z Bike: make the compiler macro available at compile time, like defmacro
2017-01-05T01:30:42Z Bike: i guess it would be hard to write that without letting the implementation not store anything
2017-01-05T01:30:44Z PuercoPop: pjb: I'm reading define-compiler-macro and it says it is the same as defmacro except for an exhaustive list of define
2017-01-05T01:31:06Z PuercoPop: wouldn't that mean that it has the same restrictions as defmacro?
2017-01-05T01:31:16Z pjb: WHat I mean is that (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (defun f () (define-compiler-macro foo ())) (f)) should have the same effects as (define-compiler-macro foo ()).
2017-01-05T01:31:51Z Bike: oh, sure yes.
2017-01-05T01:32:45Z slyrus joined #lisp
2017-01-05T01:35:29Z malice: how does eval-when actually work?
2017-01-05T01:35:29Z jean377 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T01:35:58Z Bike: complicatedly
2017-01-05T01:36:01Z malice: :)
2017-01-05T01:36:10Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-05T01:36:11Z Bike: clhs 3.2.3.1
2017-01-05T01:36:11Z specbot: Processing of Top Level Forms: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_bca.htm
2017-01-05T01:36:26Z Bike: check out the helpful table!!
2017-01-05T01:36:57Z malice: I mean, does it create a separate environment?
2017-01-05T01:37:06Z Bike: no
2017-01-05T01:37:14Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T01:37:41Z malice: I don't understand why does this not work:
2017-01-05T01:38:09Z malice: (put in repl)
2017-01-05T01:38:11Z malice: (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel) (progn (define-compiler-macro foo ())))
2017-01-05T01:38:15Z malice: and then (foo)
2017-01-05T01:38:39Z Bike: well that "doesn't work" for two reasons
2017-01-05T01:39:04Z Bike: one is that the repl uses compile or eval rather than compile-file, so if it runs into an eval-when that doesn't include :execute it does nothing
2017-01-05T01:39:07Z pjb: Because the REPL is :execute. So this eval-when should do nohting.
2017-01-05T01:39:18Z Bike: (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel) (print 'fuck)) => NIL
2017-01-05T01:39:46Z Bike: and two is that calling foo when there's a compiler macro but no actual definition isn't right.
2017-01-05T01:39:55Z Bike: also you don't need the progn, eval-when has one implied.
2017-01-05T01:40:24Z malice: I can see the progn
2017-01-05T01:40:34Z malice: what do you mean by lack of definition?
2017-01-05T01:40:40Z malice: the definition is implicit NIL, no?
2017-01-05T01:40:41Z pjb: defun or defmacro foo
2017-01-05T01:40:43Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T01:40:49Z ryan__ is now known as himmAllRight
2017-01-05T01:41:03Z pjb: the reason being that the compiler macro can be ignored.
2017-01-05T01:41:08Z pjb: Notably, eg. on the REPL.
2017-01-05T01:42:13Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T01:42:19Z malice: so if I put (define-compiler-macro ...) in my REPL, it's free to ignore it?
2017-01-05T01:42:28Z malice: I think I misunderstood that last phrase
2017-01-05T01:43:04Z pjb: wherever you put it, the code you run at the REPL may be interpreter, or compiled quickly so compiler macros may be ignored even more than when compiling files.
2017-01-05T01:43:16Z Bike: well the point is that nothing actually has to use compiler macros
2017-01-05T01:43:32Z Bike: they're optional, the implementation might just look at (foo) and say ok where's the foo function? isn't one? abort
2017-01-05T01:43:46Z pjb: function or macro.
2017-01-05T01:43:53Z pjb: You can write compiler macros for macros.
2017-01-05T01:44:28Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T01:45:00Z malice: Bike: that's interesting, could you please show me CLHS part about compiler macros being optional?
2017-01-05T01:45:47Z Bike: clhs 3.2.2.1.3
2017-01-05T01:45:47Z specbot: When Compiler Macros Are Used: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_bbac.htm
2017-01-05T01:45:56Z Bike: second sentence
2017-01-05T01:51:21Z malice: So, long story short, (define-compiler-macro foo ()) and then calling (foo) might result in error, as compiler-macro is optional?
2017-01-05T01:52:02Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-05T01:52:08Z Bike: yeah
2017-01-05T01:52:17Z Bike: semantically, compiler macros aren't really intended to be used standalone anyway
2017-01-05T01:56:03Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-05T01:56:24Z malice: Thanks Bike.
2017-01-05T01:57:28Z daniel-s quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-05T01:57:45Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-05T01:58:05Z wol joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:02:19Z malice: one more question. If I were to use (compiler-macro-function 'name), then it will always return the same result?
2017-01-05T02:02:58Z malice: (e.g. calling name doesn't have to call compiler macro per standard, but compiler-macro-function does have to make proper checks)
2017-01-05T02:04:04Z daniel-s quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T02:05:15Z Bike: i think it does have to store the compiler macro, yeah
2017-01-05T02:09:32Z malice: That would make sense. Thanks.
2017-01-05T02:14:45Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:14:50Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T02:15:37Z ak5 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T02:15:56Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:17:13Z ak5 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T02:17:38Z chzyhndz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T02:17:52Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:18:06Z chzyhndz joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:19:08Z chzyhndz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T02:19:38Z chzyhndz joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:21:08Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-05T02:21:37Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:22:38Z chzyhndz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T02:23:01Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T02:23:03Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:23:07Z chzyhndz joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:24:00Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:25:15Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:31:50Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T02:31:54Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T02:36:00Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:37:25Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T02:40:47Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:42:06Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T02:43:07Z antonv joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:44:03Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T02:47:11Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:48:10Z erjoalgo joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:48:19Z chzyhndz quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T02:48:58Z erjoalgo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T02:49:24Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-05T02:49:25Z erjoalgo joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:50:06Z erjoalgo: how do I upgrade swank? "Can't locate module: SWANK-IO-PACKAGE::SWANK-MACROSTEP   [Condition of type SIMPLE-ERROR]"
2017-01-05T02:50:06Z erjoalgo:  
2017-01-05T02:50:20Z erjoalgo: Versions differ: 2016-02-10 (slime) vs. 2015-06-01 (swank). Continue? (y or n) y
2017-01-05T02:52:23Z Xach: erjoalgo: how did you install slime?
2017-01-05T02:52:33Z erjoalgo: via package-install
2017-01-05T02:52:52Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T02:54:04Z Xach: erjoalgo: I try to keep mine in sync by installing via quicklisp-slime-helper. I don't know if that is feasible for your setup.
2017-01-05T02:56:58Z erjoalgo: this slime/swank mismatch is so annoying
2017-01-05T02:57:05Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-05T02:59:28Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T02:59:52Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T03:00:45Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:02:38Z erjoalgo: still get the same issue after (load (expand-file-name "~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el"))
2017-01-05T03:03:28Z Xach: erjoalgo: that usually means that slime.el is loading from somewhere else also, i think.
2017-01-05T03:03:49Z Xach: erjoalgo: what do you get from (ql:where-is-system "swank")?
2017-01-05T03:04:03Z Xach: that could be the other side of the problem
2017-01-05T03:04:49Z erjoalgo: works after starting slime from another emacs session.
2017-01-05T03:05:20Z Sigyn quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T03:05:20Z TeMPOraL quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T03:05:20Z o`connor_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T03:05:20Z nullx002- quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T03:05:20Z lxpz quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T03:05:20Z tkd quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T03:05:20Z snits quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T03:05:20Z ferada quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T03:05:20Z ecraven quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T03:05:20Z pchrist quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T03:05:20Z ircbrowse quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T03:05:20Z SiCC quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T03:05:20Z lpaste quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T03:05:20Z gabiruh quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T03:05:24Z Xach: phew
2017-01-05T03:05:25Z erjoalgo: Xach thanks for the quicklisp-slime-helper tip
2017-01-05T03:05:27Z ferada joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:05:29Z o`connor joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:05:29Z SiCC joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:05:35Z snits joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:05:35Z Xach: you can update slime by updating quicklisp with (ql:update-dist "quicklisp")
2017-01-05T03:05:36Z gabiruh joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:05:36Z joshe joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:05:52Z lxpz joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:05:54Z erjoalgo: so I should never install slime via package-install?
2017-01-05T03:06:02Z ecraven joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:06:05Z pchrist_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:06:08Z TeMPOraL joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:06:35Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-05T03:06:41Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T03:06:43Z loke: erjoalgo: Never.
2017-01-05T03:07:04Z lpaste joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:07:08Z Xach: erjoalgo: well, i think it is supposed to work
2017-01-05T03:07:16Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:07:19Z Xach: erjoalgo: i haven't tried it enough to say if it is good or bad
2017-01-05T03:07:35Z ircbrowse joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:08:51Z diphuser joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:09:02Z loke: Xach: I did. Back when I was young and stupid.
2017-01-05T03:09:04Z loke: :-)
2017-01-05T03:09:20Z loke: Now I'm old and stupid, but at least I know better than to install that thing. :-)
2017-01-05T03:09:31Z ghostlight quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-05T03:10:15Z Xach: i thought slime's package-install support was relatively new
2017-01-05T03:10:18Z Xach: like, past year or two
2017-01-05T03:11:04Z nullx002 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:13:26Z Sigyn joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:14:30Z circ-user-jRgN6 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:15:24Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:15:32Z circ-user-jRgN6: Does it make sense to put (declaim (optimize (safety 3) (debug 3))) in my ~/.sbclrc? When I load ASDF systems, will it apply that to stuff it builds?
2017-01-05T03:16:22Z Xach: circ-user-jRgN6: i'd use the restrict-compiler-policy thing instead. it will apply to the stuff you build even if they declaim/declare otherwise.
2017-01-05T03:16:26Z loke: circ-user-jRgN6: The declamation will only apply to the .sbclrc itself.
2017-01-05T03:16:48Z loke: Don't you have to use PROCLAIM or something?
2017-01-05T03:17:01Z loke never fully understood the difference between declaim and proclaim.
2017-01-05T03:17:39Z circ-user-jRgN6: OK thanks. Restrict-compiler-policy is an ASDF thing?
2017-01-05T03:17:47Z loke: circ-user-jRgN6: It's an SBCL thing.
2017-01-05T03:20:27Z Zhivago: loke: It's just a matter of quotation, iirc.
2017-01-05T03:21:08Z Zhivago: declaim is a macro which expands to a suitably quoted proclaim, iirc.
2017-01-05T03:21:51Z loke: You'r right. It becomes (EVAL-WHEN (:COMPILE-TOPLEVEL :LOAD-TOPLEVEL :EXECUTE) (SB-C::%PROCLAIM '(OPTIMIZE (SPEED 3)) (SB-C:SOURCE-LOCATION)))
2017-01-05T03:24:06Z ghostlight joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:25:30Z slyrus joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:26:50Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-05T03:28:21Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:32:48Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:35:17Z alienbot quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-05T03:36:54Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:37:26Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:39:41Z Reinisch_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:40:05Z diphuser quit (Quit: diphuser)
2017-01-05T03:41:41Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T03:42:11Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T03:43:54Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:44:01Z Reinisch_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T03:50:19Z himmAllRight quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T03:52:22Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-05T03:52:24Z Arathnim joined #lisp
2017-01-05T03:59:49Z erjoalgo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T04:00:26Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T04:00:51Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T04:07:30Z Oladon1 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T04:09:41Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-05T04:09:56Z Oladon quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T04:10:51Z Xach: allo
2017-01-05T04:11:03Z Arathnim: Good morning.
2017-01-05T04:11:57Z adlai: clearly, if everybody ACKed a broadcast SYN, the network would collapse in two shakes of a metaphrand
2017-01-05T04:17:17Z groovy2shoes joined #lisp
2017-01-05T04:18:22Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-05T04:18:26Z Fare: beach: hi!
2017-01-05T04:18:58Z beach: Fare: How is progress on the paper?
2017-01-05T04:18:59Z Fare: beach: would you have time to proofread my submission to SNAPL 2017? I'm finishing my first draft tonight.
2017-01-05T04:19:30Z beach: As long as you give me some time to do it, sure.
2017-01-05T04:19:58Z Fare: beach: the ASDF 2017 paper is done, except that I have to switch the latex class from sigplan to the new acm class.
2017-01-05T04:20:20Z Fare: https://github.com/fare/asdf2017
2017-01-05T04:21:06Z Fare: when I'm done with snapl, I'll hopefully have time to create a new racket package for that acm class.
2017-01-05T04:24:04Z beach: Fare: For the ASDF paper, I recommend you do a CCS section as well, as the new ACM style requires.
2017-01-05T04:30:49Z beach: Fare: If you remind me once you have switched styles, I'll have a final look at the ASDF paper as well.
2017-01-05T04:32:41Z beach needs to make progress on his own submissions today.
2017-01-05T04:34:52Z beach: I made some progress on the path-replication paper, in case someone would like to have a look: http://metamodular.com/path-replication.pdf
2017-01-05T04:40:50Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T04:42:29Z adlai: beach: broken reference at start of paragraph 2 of section 4 ?
2017-01-05T04:43:06Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-05T04:43:32Z beach: Indeed.  Thanks!
2017-01-05T04:44:26Z adlai: np. good morning :)
2017-01-05T04:45:13Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T04:45:28Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-05T04:46:05Z beach: Fixed.  Thanks again!
2017-01-05T04:46:22Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T04:46:32Z Fare: My SNAPL proposal is at https://github.com/fare/fci2017 -- it's a very rough first draft, but the deadline is this Friday...
2017-01-05T04:46:54Z beach: In what timezone?
2017-01-05T04:46:59Z Fare: what's a CCS section?
2017-01-05T04:47:10Z Fare: "anywhere on earth"
2017-01-05T04:47:30Z beach: See the section right after the abstract in my path-replication paper.
2017-01-05T04:47:43Z beach: It comes with the new ACM style.
2017-01-05T04:47:55Z beach: You need some XML in there.
2017-01-05T04:48:02Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T04:48:16Z Fare: so in practice saturday noon UTC.
2017-01-05T04:48:30Z Fare: beach: URL?
2017-01-05T04:48:56Z Fare: oh, found it above ^
2017-01-05T04:48:58Z beach: You will find some human-friendly instructions here: https://shinmera.github.io/els-web/2017/index.html#submissions
2017-01-05T04:49:35Z Fare: beach: does it matter that my asdf2017 proposal is a "demo" rather than a full paper?
2017-01-05T04:50:04Z beach: Define "matter"! :)
2017-01-05T04:50:42Z beach: I am not on the program committee this year, so I don't know how it is going to work.
2017-01-05T04:51:55Z beach: And I don't know the exact rules for the distinction between an ordinary paper and a demo.
2017-01-05T04:52:17Z beach: ... other than if it is more than 2 pages it can't be a demo.
2017-01-05T04:54:20Z beach: Fare, the link to the PDF in the SNAPL paper seems broken.
2017-01-05T04:55:12Z Fare: ouch, lemme fix that...
2017-01-05T04:56:40Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-05T04:59:05Z Fare: please reload
2017-01-05T04:59:12Z Fare: the linked URL was wrong
2017-01-05T04:59:29Z beach: Works!
2017-01-05T05:00:09Z Fare: for asdf2017, I don't have time to make it more than a demo. Also I don't feel much interest for the details I'd give.
2017-01-05T05:00:52Z Fare: beach: you said submissions... what else are you working on?
2017-01-05T05:01:22Z Fare: I'm submitting at SNAPL and ELS, but have also submitted at LambdaConf and intend to submit to refuses.
2017-01-05T05:01:31Z Fare: https://refuses.github.io/
2017-01-05T05:01:33Z beach: Fare: this: http://metamodular.com/sequence-functions.pdf
2017-01-05T05:01:40Z Fare: also at ELS?
2017-01-05T05:01:50Z beach: Fare and this: http://metamodular.com/incremental-parsing.pdf
2017-01-05T05:01:53Z beach: Yes, ELS.
2017-01-05T05:02:25Z Fare: I submitted 4 proposals to LambdaConf, but should probably retire the 2 that I'm sending to SNAPL and Refusés.
2017-01-05T05:03:29Z beach: Fare: I think I will only have time to capture superficial stuff in the SNAPL paper.  Trying to understand it well enough to catch real problems would take more time than what is available.
2017-01-05T05:05:46Z beach: WOW, you use the word "category" in the first sentence without a reference.  Many readers will not catch the fact that you are referring to category theory, since "category" is a common word, and most people on this planet are not that familiar with category theory.
2017-01-05T05:07:30Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-05T05:07:33Z adlai introduced the dad to it over dinner this week. sadly he couldn't just "subclass of DGs, the ones with transitive links", but it doesn't actually take that many words more
2017-01-05T05:09:08Z beach: Fare: What is "arrows between the same nodes" supposed to mean?
2017-01-05T05:11:50Z beach: Fare: This is going to be tricky.  I will not be able to do a very good job in the time at my disposal, especially if I need to give you my remarks in time for you to fix and resubmit.
2017-01-05T05:13:37Z beach: Fare: French authors use "X (resp Y) .... is V (resp W)" a lot.  Please don't do that in English.  It is better to repeat the sentence.
2017-01-05T05:14:13Z beach: "X ... is V.  Similarly, Y ... is W."
2017-01-05T05:15:22Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T05:16:15Z beach: Fare: "allows discrete computations to be implemented with discrete computations"?
2017-01-05T05:18:28Z Fare: beach: thanks a lot
2017-01-05T05:19:00Z beach: I'll do my best.  I think it's best I send remarks by email.  It is not really on topic here as far as I can tell.
2017-01-05T05:19:50Z Fare: full subcategory: the nodes of O are a subset of nodes of C. Given two nodes o and o', the set (O.arrows o o') is equal to (C.arrows (j o) (j o'))
2017-01-05T05:20:18Z Fare: it's a common definition in category theory.
2017-01-05T05:20:29Z beach: I wouldn't know.
2017-01-05T05:21:10Z beach: While I could read up on and understand category theory, it is not practical for me to do it before the deadline.
2017-01-05T05:22:04Z Fare: of course
2017-01-05T05:22:16Z beach: Again, I'll do my best.
2017-01-05T05:23:11Z beach takes a break.  It's been a very busy morning, and it's not even daylight outside yet.
2017-01-05T05:23:20Z ak5 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T05:23:42Z Fare: only thing you need to know: 1- it's got nodes and arrows (mathematicians usually call them "objects" and "morphisms"), 2- arrows with compatible end/start can be composed internally to the category and each node has an identity arrow to itself that is neutral for composition, 3- functors preserve the composition structure
2017-01-05T05:24:25Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-05T05:24:54Z adlai apologizes, but the urge is too strong: 4- a monad is a monoid in the category of endofunctors
2017-01-05T05:24:59Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T05:25:01Z Fare: and 4- it's a practical choice for a unifying paradigm because mathematicians have studied it so much, and it maps well with logic (e.g. Agda, Coq, etc.)
2017-01-05T05:25:28Z beach: Fare: It looks like it would be more practical for you to ask adlai to read the paper.
2017-01-05T05:25:29Z Fare: adlai: a monoid is a category with only one node.
2017-01-05T05:25:35Z ak5 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T05:25:47Z Fare: adlai: can you proofread my paper? https://github.com/fare/fci2017
2017-01-05T05:25:49Z adlai: Fare: if you're serious about the word 'practical' in there, maybe i need to take a serious crack at getting my friend to explain what he wants to dissertate about next year
2017-01-05T05:26:13Z adlai: Fare: not this second, i have intro linear algebra in 95 minutes ;_;
2017-01-05T05:26:23Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T05:26:27Z Fare: the use of category theory in my paper is trivial -- you don't need to know more than the 4 points above.
2017-01-05T05:26:42Z Fare: adlai: possible before friday?
2017-01-05T05:27:13Z adlai: sure
2017-01-05T05:27:18Z Fare: yay
2017-01-05T05:27:36Z beach: Fare: You credit me with way more knowledge in mathematics and theoretical computer science than I have fresh in my mind: "composed end/start"?  "composed internally"? "composition structure"?
2017-01-05T05:27:53Z adlai: no guarantees about the quality of said proofreading, i'm much better at spotting broken references than broken logic
2017-01-05T05:28:01Z beach: Heh!
2017-01-05T05:29:00Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T05:30:30Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-05T05:33:11Z Bike: is the "resp" thing french? i'm used to that in papers, if not conversation
2017-01-05T05:34:02Z adlai bets short -espectively
2017-01-05T05:34:08Z Bike: well, yes
2017-01-05T05:35:43Z robotoad quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T05:36:34Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-05T05:38:19Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T05:39:42Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-05T05:42:23Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T05:43:49Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T05:44:37Z Arathnim: beach: The incremental parsing paper is neat, I'm working on a parser combinator based lisp reader, might have to see if there's a way to generalize that approach for fast re-parsing of any syntax.
2017-01-05T05:44:59Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-05T05:45:26Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T05:50:31Z kammd joined #lisp
2017-01-05T05:51:45Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-05T05:51:46Z bocaneri quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-05T05:52:30Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-05T05:53:36Z Fare: speaking of incremental parsing, you have of course all read Matthew Might's paper on parsing with derivatives...
2017-01-05T05:54:00Z Bike: i think i actually have. spooky.
2017-01-05T05:55:21Z beach: Arathnim: Glad you like it.
2017-01-05T05:56:36Z beach: Bike: Native speakers of French have a tendency to complicate their writing.  And this tendency spills over when they write English, something English is not well suited for.
2017-01-05T05:57:41Z Fare: bed time for me. Nity nite! (updated fci.pdf based on feedback so far)
2017-01-05T06:01:43Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T06:05:19Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-05T06:05:35Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-05T06:06:56Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:07:14Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T06:09:59Z ak5 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T06:10:02Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:13:01Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:25:22Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T06:25:56Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:28:32Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-05T06:30:28Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:31:25Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:32:47Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:34:41Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-05T06:39:45Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T06:41:58Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T06:42:32Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:43:06Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:45:07Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T06:45:58Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:48:18Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T06:49:19Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:53:21Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:53:39Z burtons joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:53:55Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T06:55:09Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:55:57Z mellowmaroon joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:57:54Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-05T06:58:18Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-05T07:00:07Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-05T07:05:21Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T07:06:00Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T07:07:51Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T07:08:55Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-05T07:09:39Z mellowmaroon left #lisp
2017-01-05T07:11:01Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T07:12:53Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T07:15:59Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-05T07:22:46Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T07:25:30Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-05T07:33:41Z alienbot quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T07:40:23Z arrdem quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T07:40:31Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T07:40:47Z arrdem joined #lisp
2017-01-05T07:41:47Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-05T07:41:50Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-05T07:44:59Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T07:45:01Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-05T07:46:00Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T07:46:29Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T07:46:45Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T07:47:13Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-05T07:48:37Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-05T07:51:22Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-05T07:53:13Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-05T07:54:23Z msmith quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T07:55:07Z msmith joined #lisp
2017-01-05T07:56:12Z XdilaudidX joined #lisp
2017-01-05T07:56:19Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-05T07:56:19Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T07:56:28Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-05T07:56:38Z XdilaudidX: Hey fellas!  So, I got Open Genera up and running...
2017-01-05T07:57:07Z XdilaudidX: I'm no programmer (at least not in the classically defined sense)
2017-01-05T07:57:20Z XdilaudidX: but I love Genera.
2017-01-05T07:59:36Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:00:47Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:01:01Z mordocai quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-05T08:01:17Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:02:00Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-05T08:02:16Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T08:03:01Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:04:04Z flamebeard_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:04:27Z mordocai joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:04:32Z ghostlight quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T08:05:00Z satran_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:05:55Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-05T08:06:32Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:06:48Z flamebeard quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T08:07:02Z d4ryus1 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:07:15Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-05T08:08:06Z ghostlight joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:09:08Z XdilaudidX: If anyone else uses it, see if DK Schmidt will let you have a peek at the backup tapes.
2017-01-05T08:09:52Z XdilaudidX: There was a GUI somewhere there, as a "private project", kind of Windows-like if I recall, by the name of Jinn or Genie.
2017-01-05T08:10:01Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T08:10:46Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T08:11:39Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T08:11:47Z flamebeard_ is now known as flamebeard
2017-01-05T08:15:18Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:25:30Z XdilaudidX quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T08:27:46Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T08:28:52Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-05T08:29:25Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:34:49Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-05T08:36:00Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:37:18Z nowhereman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T08:37:29Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:37:58Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T08:41:31Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-05T08:42:42Z XdilaudidX joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:43:30Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:43:40Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:43:49Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:55:43Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-05T08:55:46Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2017-01-05T08:55:46Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-05T09:02:59Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T09:04:36Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T09:04:56Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-05T09:05:38Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T09:07:26Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-05T09:08:00Z Bike quit (Quit: mimsy were)
2017-01-05T09:08:20Z XdilaudidX quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-05T09:09:02Z XdilaudidX joined #lisp
2017-01-05T09:09:48Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T09:09:53Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-05T09:14:41Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T09:15:24Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T09:16:38Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-05T09:17:08Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T09:22:27Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T09:23:39Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-05T09:23:55Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T09:28:04Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T09:31:04Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T09:34:45Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T09:35:23Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-05T09:36:36Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T09:40:07Z Arathnim quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-05T09:41:48Z malice` joined #lisp
2017-01-05T09:43:17Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T09:44:20Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T09:45:40Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-05T09:48:24Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-05T09:48:33Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-05T09:52:46Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T09:53:19Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-05T09:56:50Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T10:03:06Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-05T10:04:03Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T10:12:09Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-05T10:13:31Z arjenve joined #lisp
2017-01-05T10:15:16Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T10:16:41Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-05T10:17:46Z daniel-s quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T10:17:57Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-05T10:18:24Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T10:18:57Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-05T10:24:55Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-05T10:25:25Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T10:28:18Z vlatkoB quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T10:29:43Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-05T10:31:56Z o1e9 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T10:42:16Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-05T10:45:49Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-05T10:49:02Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T10:51:01Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-05T10:51:10Z cmatei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T10:51:47Z cmatei joined #lisp
2017-01-05T10:52:41Z krasnal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T11:01:30Z tkd joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:05:47Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-05T11:06:39Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:15:12Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:19:43Z w37 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:23:04Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:24:54Z ikopico joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:26:33Z ak51 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T11:27:07Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:41:13Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:45:41Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-05T11:46:11Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:48:05Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:49:43Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-05T11:52:19Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T11:54:27Z chzyhndz joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:55:44Z jurov quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:44Z kjak quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:44Z loke quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:44Z voidlily quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:44Z troydm quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:44Z alandipert quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:44Z xantoz quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:44Z Guest57693 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:44Z CrazyEddy quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:44Z ski quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:44Z funnel quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:44Z TruePika quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:44Z trn quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:45Z chavezgu quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:45Z _death quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:45Z vert2 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:45Z emerson quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:45Z heddwch quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:45Z j0ni quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:45Z qlkzy quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:45Z tilpner quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:45Z cods quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:45Z raydeejay quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:45Z justinmcp quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:45Z renard_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-05T11:55:50Z vert2_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:55:51Z ski_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:55:52Z kjak_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:55:53Z trn joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:55:55Z alandipert joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:55:56Z j0ni joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:55:56Z cods joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:56:00Z TruePika joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:56:03Z heddwch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:56:04Z funnel joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:56:06Z qlkzy_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:56:09Z raydeejay joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:56:11Z xantoz joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:56:18Z funnel quit (Changing host)
2017-01-05T11:56:18Z funnel joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:56:32Z _death joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:56:41Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:56:46Z loke`` joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:56:47Z chavezgu joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:56:51Z justinmcp joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:56:52Z tilpner joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:56:53Z voidlily joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:56:55Z jurov joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:57:06Z giraffe joined #lisp
2017-01-05T11:57:16Z giraffe is now known as Guest73411
2017-01-05T11:58:28Z angular_mike_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-05T11:59:20Z ghostlight quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-05T12:01:01Z angular_mike_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:02:07Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:04:24Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T12:05:11Z chream joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:06:13Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:09:07Z chzyhndz quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-05T12:10:56Z chream: Hi I posted a style related question on reddit. Any short thoughts on this? https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/5m5zn9/question_on_styleefficiency/
2017-01-05T12:11:22Z chream: been driving my insane not knowing what is the "correct" way
2017-01-05T12:13:17Z varjag: removed
2017-01-05T12:16:45Z kevin1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:17:43Z ghostlight joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:19:40Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T12:20:36Z Zhivago: Correct is meaningless without a metric.
2017-01-05T12:22:41Z White_Flame: style means indent as emacs/slime does, annotate *specials* and +constants+ properly, don't use macros when functions would suffice
2017-01-05T12:23:15Z White_Flame: as far as semantic programming decisions go, there's many ways to do things, and many ways to invent new ways of doing things, see the channel title.  Have fun
2017-01-05T12:23:20Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-05T12:24:39Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T12:24:54Z sjl: chream: I just see [removed] at that link
2017-01-05T12:25:02Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:25:21Z axion: Judginjg by the post title, I am guessing this wasn't actually a question of style.
2017-01-05T12:25:48Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:27:36Z John[Lisbeth] joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:27:43Z John[Lisbeth]: I want to make some syntactic sugar
2017-01-05T12:27:52Z John[Lisbeth]: but I need the recipe
2017-01-05T12:32:45Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-05T12:34:21Z chream: sjl: check reddit/r/lisp for the thread. I guess we cant post links (?).
2017-01-05T12:34:42Z chream: White_Flame: Ok so its a semantic question. would love some thoughts instead of debating details.
2017-01-05T12:34:42Z sjl: weird
2017-01-05T12:34:51Z sjl: when I click through the main subreddit I do see it
2017-01-05T12:37:35Z axion: I do not
2017-01-05T12:37:41Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T12:37:49Z White_Flame: I see it now, same link as pasted above
2017-01-05T12:37:55Z White_Flame: I"m not a reddit user, so I have no idea what's up
2017-01-05T12:38:49Z White_Flame: but this example really doesn't explain what you're trying to do
2017-01-05T12:39:10Z White_Flame: the code is all very generically named to the point of non-informativeness
2017-01-05T12:40:29Z axion: Yes, I can't really make sense what it is they are trying to do, but it probably comes down to usage pattern choices.
2017-01-05T12:40:59Z White_Flame: and how far you want to abstract some activity is really project-dependent
2017-01-05T12:41:25Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:41:30Z White_Flame: ie, (do-everything-for-me some-value) vs (do-this-to-that  value object context etc)
2017-01-05T12:41:53Z White_Flame: but if you just build up simple tools, you can always have convenience functions built on top that call them
2017-01-05T12:42:05Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:42:37Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T12:43:45Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:43:57Z ak51 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-05T12:45:09Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T12:45:30Z chream: hmm I think this is a very general choice one has to make. Lets say I pass an object to a method. This method needs both the object, information nested in the object and information nesten within the nestet information. I could write util functions that take as parameters: the object, nested information, and nested-nested information. OR I could write util functions that allways just take the object. (And all the nesting is done in the
2017-01-05T12:46:11Z chream: ah ok this is confusing. ill think of a good way to show it.
2017-01-05T12:46:19Z White_Flame: honestly, that's all just micro-details that don't really matter
2017-01-05T12:46:22Z White_Flame: either for speed or usability
2017-01-05T12:46:45Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:47:02Z sjl: there was a usenet post or something that would be helpful here, but I can't seem to find it with google right now :\
2017-01-05T12:47:10Z axion: As for a style question, I am currently debating abbreviating argument symbols for LAMBDA forms. I've seen this done a lot in the wild and I can understand why, but at the same time I enjoy having descriptive names.
2017-01-05T12:47:11Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T12:47:26Z sjl: it was talking about whether map/loop is more readable, and how the real issue is making good self-contained functions
2017-01-05T12:48:57Z sjl: dammit, I should have pinboarded it
2017-01-05T12:50:17Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:52:23Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:53:57Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:54:45Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T12:57:02Z chream: anyone know of a portability library for MOP. Working on something using sb-pcl::method-combination-options object, sb-mop:generic-function-methods object, sb-pcl:method-specializers object. ie mostly reader functions for metaobjects.
2017-01-05T12:57:23Z axion: closer-mop?
2017-01-05T12:58:16Z Xach: closer-mop is exactly it
2017-01-05T12:58:19Z chream: nope, I havent found at least
2017-01-05T12:58:33Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-05T12:58:38Z chream: had to write this for example
2017-01-05T12:58:40Z chream: (defmethod method-combination-options ((object method-combination))   #+sbcl (sb-pcl::method-combination-options object)   #+ccl (ccl::method-combination-options object)   #+allegro (excl::method-combination-options object)   #+ecl (mop::method-combination-options object))
2017-01-05T12:59:41Z Xach: chream: look at https://github.com/pcostanza/closer-mop
2017-01-05T12:59:54Z Xach: chream: it is a great project and i think it will help you
2017-01-05T13:01:21Z chream: already using it. Using :closer-common-lisp as default as well. but some reader functions are not in :closer-mop. At least I cant find them.
2017-01-05T13:01:25Z chream: but thanks!
2017-01-05T13:01:46Z Xach: ok
2017-01-05T13:02:48Z Xach: chream: I wonder if there is a reason why it is absent from closer-mop
2017-01-05T13:04:00Z chream: Xach: yeah I was wondering as well. Might put together something and make a pull request if Im satisfied.
2017-01-05T13:05:57Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T13:06:49Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:07:38Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:08:29Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:09:45Z malice`: chream: regarding performance part of your question, I wouldn't worry much
2017-01-05T13:10:01Z axion: beach: Got a minute?
2017-01-05T13:10:03Z sjl: this is the post I was thinking of about "one function per function" https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.lisp/9SKZ5YJUmBg/Fj05OZQomzIJ
2017-01-05T13:11:16Z malice`: 1) it's still linear complexity, 2) some implementations *might* optimize it(e.g. sbcl caches last gethash; some implementations might choose to do the same with assoc). 3) the performance hit wouldn't matter for 99,9% of applications anyway 4) you don't use alists where performance matters
2017-01-05T13:14:21Z daniel-s quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-05T13:15:15Z chream: malice: yes I was thinking as much. Thanks! There is also the question of amount of code as well. I would have to access the value with a let binding (even nested if needed) for ALL functions in the top let binding. But I find this worth it. Especially since it (the let binding) can be easily parallized with lparallel.
2017-01-05T13:15:46Z beach: axion: Sure.
2017-01-05T13:15:53Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-05T13:16:16Z axion: beach: I have a question regarding: https://github.com/robert-strandh/Clump/blob/master/Binary-tree/docstrings-english.lisp
2017-01-05T13:16:33Z beach: axion: I'm listening.
2017-01-05T13:16:45Z axion: beach: What editor are you using, or are you manually aligning subsequent line columns for those strings?
2017-01-05T13:17:01Z beach: I think I did that manually.
2017-01-05T13:17:09Z axion: Ok that is all, thanks :)
2017-01-05T13:17:19Z beach: Heh! OK.
2017-01-05T13:18:54Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:20:50Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-05T13:22:12Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-05T13:22:46Z opt9 quit (Quit: Bye bye)
2017-01-05T13:22:56Z malice`: chream: though I guess I'd prefer version 1, since if something has to work on entry, I'd expect function to accept the entry
2017-01-05T13:24:01Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T13:24:21Z opt9 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:24:43Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:25:35Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-05T13:26:14Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:26:20Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:34:04Z krasnal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T13:36:39Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T13:37:36Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:41:25Z borodust: axion: i sometimes use (format nil "~{~A~}" '("strings " "that " "gonna be " "correctly " "autoaligned in emacs"))
2017-01-05T13:41:25Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-05T13:41:28Z mood: axion: If you align the second line properly and use M-q in Emacs, it'll align subsequent lines in the string the same as well. Probably doesn't work with the ~@'s though
2017-01-05T13:42:26Z borodust: one might also do  "~{~A~^~@~}" probably or whatever the correct control string is)
2017-01-05T13:42:36Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:43:13Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T13:44:32Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T13:45:04Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:45:09Z travv0 left #lisp
2017-01-05T13:45:17Z borodust: or "~{~A~~^ }", meh ;p
2017-01-05T13:45:30Z borodust: *"~{~A~^ ~}"
2017-01-05T13:45:32Z borodust: jeez
2017-01-05T13:46:17Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:48:18Z fluter joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:49:23Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:51:49Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T13:53:57Z shdeng quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T13:54:30Z Fare quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T13:54:56Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:55:05Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:58:11Z beach: Hmm, it looks like I have a good use case for "stealth mixins".
2017-01-05T13:58:33Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-05T13:59:00Z beach: ESA provides a mixin class for BUFFER, but I want the code for Second Climacs to be as independent of ESA as possible, certainly at the level of a buffer.
2017-01-05T14:00:03Z beach: I think the solution might be to turn a subclass of ESA-BUFFER into a stealth mixin of the BUFFER class of Second Climacs.
2017-01-05T14:01:08Z beach: For those who don't know about stealth mixins: https://www.computer.org/csdl/proceedings/aswec/2007/2778/00/27780111-abs.html
2017-01-05T14:03:15Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-05T14:03:35Z flip214: beach: "INDEX TERMS
2017-01-05T14:03:36Z flip214: null
2017-01-05T14:03:44Z flip214: should at least be () or NIL ;)
2017-01-05T14:03:54Z beach: Heh!
2017-01-05T14:04:06Z flip214: brrr, "FULL ARTICLE [ ] PDF [.] BUY"
2017-01-05T14:04:28Z beach: Yeah, I am afraid I don't have a PDF either.
2017-01-05T14:04:45Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:05:33Z Fare quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T14:05:36Z fare__ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:05:39Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T14:05:41Z flip214: ah, right. you wrote "for those who don't know...", not "for those that are interested".
2017-01-05T14:06:18Z beach: Yeah, can't do better than that.  The code is in Gsharp though.  Only a few dozen lines.
2017-01-05T14:06:49Z beach now suspects that he will be asked to provide the location of the repository for Gsharp.
2017-01-05T14:06:51Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:08:03Z beach: https://common-lisp.net/project/gsharp/
2017-01-05T14:08:13Z beach: Only the tar download works, it seems.
2017-01-05T14:08:26Z XdilaudidX: Hey guys, anyone got gpled or mit licenced software for open genera?
2017-01-05T14:09:07Z FareTower quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T14:09:16Z XdilaudidX: I've been running open genera, coding a little bit at a time, trying to get at least the user land up to fairly modern standards.
2017-01-05T14:10:00Z XdilaudidX: I might even have a bugfix for genera with modern x/xorg
2017-01-05T14:12:28Z devhydraz joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:12:28Z devhydraz quit (Changing host)
2017-01-05T14:12:28Z devhydraz joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:13:39Z Neet__ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:15:06Z hydraz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T14:15:06Z Neet_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T14:15:06Z marsjaninzmarsa quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.x-git-487-cbf5c38 - http://znc.in)
2017-01-05T14:15:12Z Neet__ is now known as Neet_
2017-01-05T14:16:07Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T14:16:12Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:17:16Z marsjaninzmarsa joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:17:39Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:18:08Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:19:35Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-05T14:19:54Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:25:20Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T14:25:51Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T14:25:58Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-05T14:26:52Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:28:53Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:29:45Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-05T14:31:00Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:33:10Z Tex_Nick joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:38:23Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-05T14:38:54Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:39:11Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:39:13Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T14:40:30Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:41:53Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:42:27Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T14:46:00Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:46:11Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-05T14:46:28Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:46:52Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:49:01Z fare__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T14:49:16Z fare__ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:51:00Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T14:51:22Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:52:53Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2017-01-05T14:53:05Z FareTower quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T14:53:13Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:00:03Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T15:01:40Z Guest26_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:03:32Z fare__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T15:04:16Z fare__ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:04:19Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T15:06:00Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-05T15:06:35Z dyelar joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:06:57Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:07:12Z satran_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-05T15:08:12Z fare__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-05T15:08:14Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-05T15:09:24Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T15:09:54Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:10:42Z bmilk joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:13:36Z Intensity joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:14:08Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-05T15:14:53Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T15:14:56Z bmilk: hi guys...I want to know some recently news about cl. It's dead?
2017-01-05T15:15:29Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:15:32Z Xach: No deader than usual.
2017-01-05T15:16:25Z phoe_: bmilk: no, why?
2017-01-05T15:16:32Z phoe_: I'm writing Common Lisp as we speak.
2017-01-05T15:16:42Z varjag: me2
2017-01-05T15:16:50Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:16:53Z Guest26_ quit (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-05T15:17:14Z phoe_: https://i.sli.mg/8mgOFI.png
2017-01-05T15:17:20Z bmilk: In a Chinese lisp group, they said so. I am confused
2017-01-05T15:17:49Z phoe_: bmilk: well, they have words, I have proof.
2017-01-05T15:19:15Z bmilk: haha...thank you.
2017-01-05T15:19:26Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T15:21:01Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-05T15:22:06Z Amplituhedron quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T15:23:47Z flip214: I've got a reader macro that, upon encountering my macro character, reads the next characters, defines a symbol (with the same case) in some package,
2017-01-05T15:24:07Z flip214: sets its value to itself (mirroring the self-evaluation of keywords), and returns the symbol.
2017-01-05T15:24:10Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 261 seconds)
2017-01-05T15:24:28Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:24:30Z flip214: but that doesn't work when some FASL only gets loaded, because then the symbol won't have its value.
2017-01-05T15:24:33Z scottj left #lisp
2017-01-05T15:25:06Z flip214: So I tried to return (LOAD-TIME-VALUE (progn (setf (symbol-value 'sym) 'sym))) instead,
2017-01-05T15:25:08Z nullx002 quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-05T15:25:33Z flip214: but that gives problems when somebody quotes the symbol (eg. for a GETHASH, like would be done for other symbols).
2017-01-05T15:25:52Z flip214: What can I do to make that work?
2017-01-05T15:26:44Z flip214: the reader macro can't simply inject a (EVAL-WHEN (load) (setf ...)), because that could be anywhere in the code. Right?
2017-01-05T15:27:14Z flip214: or is an eval-when (load) moved to the toplevel during compilation?
2017-01-05T15:28:15Z nullx002- joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:29:23Z Guest26_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:30:51Z phoe_: flip214: what problems?
2017-01-05T15:32:18Z Guest26_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-05T15:33:58Z bmilk slaps phoe_ around a bit with a large trout
2017-01-05T15:34:20Z phoe_: geez
2017-01-05T15:34:30Z phoe_: been ages since I saw that line
2017-01-05T15:34:44Z flip214: well, GETHASH gets (QUOTE ...) as key and doesn't find the correct data.
2017-01-05T15:34:46Z circ-user-jRgN6 left #lisp
2017-01-05T15:34:59Z flip214: with the symbol only it did work fine, because 'a and a evaluated both to 'a.
2017-01-05T15:35:13Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:35:21Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:35:28Z phoe_: so now you have (quote (load-time-value ...))?
2017-01-05T15:35:37Z flip214: reading eval-when using that with :LOAD is only allowed on top-level
2017-01-05T15:35:40Z flip214: yes
2017-01-05T15:35:50Z circ-user-jRgN6 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:36:08Z phoe_: so you have trouble when the form is not evaluated. hm.
2017-01-05T15:36:38Z flip214: I'd like to avoid forbidding 'a, because that's what lisp programmers are used to...
2017-01-05T15:37:03Z flip214: even if the shorter form a is available (with that macro character only, of course)
2017-01-05T15:37:23Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T15:37:24Z phoe_: no idea how to help you here. (load-time-value ...) gets spliced in the place of that reader macro during read-time, and during read-time we cannot really get any context of the symbol.
2017-01-05T15:37:45Z phoe_: So we cannot read the fact that we are inside the QUOTE context.
2017-01-05T15:38:06Z flip214: and deep within some lisp form I can't put a form for toplevel processing during load-time, right?
2017-01-05T15:39:40Z flip214: well, my reader macro could write/extend some other file that gets read after asdf processing,
2017-01-05T15:39:54Z flip214: and find out which symbols to set from there...
2017-01-05T15:40:11Z pjb: flip214: you might be able to solve it by definining make-load-form methods on each of those self evaluating symbols of yours.
2017-01-05T15:41:52Z flip214: hmmm, sounds a bit complicated, too
2017-01-05T15:41:57Z flip214: but interesting
2017-01-05T15:42:20Z flip214: my current idea was to have asdf set the symbol values after loading a file
2017-01-05T15:42:23Z pjb: This is the standard mechanism to do it.  Not our fault if you try to apply it to a simple self evaluating symbol.
2017-01-05T15:42:35Z pjb: why don't you use keywords?
2017-01-05T15:43:28Z pjb: flip214: it's more complicated to try to do it separately, since you have to deal with compilation environment, load-time environment, execute environment, and the crossing of data between those environment (the list of symbols that you need to initialize), it's not a simple problem.
2017-01-05T15:43:31Z flip214: pjb: because the reader will destroy the character case; and because I don't want to clutter the keyword package with all the things I'm going to put in there
2017-01-05T15:43:43Z pjb: flip214: return keywords!
2017-01-05T15:43:57Z pjb: (intern string-read-case-sensitively "KEYWORD")
2017-01-05T15:43:59Z pjb: and you're done.
2017-01-05T15:44:11Z flip214: well, all these symbols will be in exactly one package, so I only need to check this one
2017-01-05T15:44:29Z flip214: pjb: but that doesn't read that nicely, does it?
2017-01-05T15:44:34Z pjb: Now, you may also import keywords to other packages.
2017-01-05T15:44:56Z pjb: That reads very nicely: !FooBar --> :|FooBar|
2017-01-05T15:45:06Z unbalanced joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:45:13Z flip214: $:MyFunkySymbol   does an INTERN, anyway
2017-01-05T15:45:22Z flip214: hmmm
2017-01-05T15:45:35Z pjb: Yes, now you intern in keyword to get the self evaluation, and you import to your package to collect the list.
2017-01-05T15:47:20Z circ-user-jRgN6 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T15:48:07Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:48:30Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T15:49:37Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-05T15:50:45Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:51:53Z o1e9 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-05T15:51:56Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:54:00Z drmeister: Can this be a type?   '(or :a :b :c)     or '(and symbol (or :a :b :c))
2017-01-05T15:54:51Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:55:12Z drmeister: (member :a :b :c)?
2017-01-05T15:55:19Z beach: That's different.
2017-01-05T15:55:35Z beach: In the first case, I would think :a :b and :c would have to be defined as types.
2017-01-05T15:56:12Z flip214: pjb: grrr, not that easy.... I generated code with symbols from that package, and that doesn't work any more.
2017-01-05T15:56:15Z flip214:  :|port| is a keyword, and cannot be used as a local variable.
2017-01-05T15:56:34Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:57:42Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:58:04Z beach: drmeister: So you define :a to be a type, :b to be a type, and :c to be a type, then '(or :a :b :c) is a type.
2017-01-05T15:58:49Z beach: '(member :a :b :c) is the type consisting of those three symbols.
2017-01-05T15:58:55Z drmeister: Sorry - I wasn't clear.   I'd like the type to be composed of keyword symbols that are in the set '(:a :b :c)
2017-01-05T15:59:11Z DKordic joined #lisp
2017-01-05T15:59:19Z beach: (member :a :b :c)
2017-01-05T16:03:56Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-05T16:04:15Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T16:05:16Z drmeister: Excellent - thank you.  I'm composing a type error message when an incorrect parameter is passed to an LLVM function.
2017-01-05T16:05:19Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T16:06:30Z drmeister: When C++ functions need C++ enum values as arguments I create a translator from Common Lisp keyword symbols to C++ enum values.   If an improper argument is passed that the translator doesn't recognize I want it to signal a type error.
2017-01-05T16:07:20Z rogersm joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:07:45Z flip214: pjb: want to know how to get an unbound symbol in keyword? import it from another package...
2017-01-05T16:08:37Z pjb: You cannot, symbols in keywords are declared as constants.
2017-01-05T16:08:51Z pjb: You didn't say originally that you wanted them to be non-constant.
2017-01-05T16:08:59Z pjb: So you will have to use the make-load-form solution.
2017-01-05T16:09:40Z flip214: pjb: I want them to be constant. eq to themselves, right away!
2017-01-05T16:09:51Z flip214: but right now I got a :symbol that was unbound...
2017-01-05T16:09:58Z pjb: You cannot use constant variables as variable variables.
2017-01-05T16:11:50Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-05T16:13:28Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:13:59Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:14:04Z flip214: no, but by returning my own keywords from a reader macro I loose the readers' implementation of defining them.
2017-01-05T16:14:16Z flip214: at least, that's my interpretation.
2017-01-05T16:15:06Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:15:20Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T16:15:40Z pjb: flip214: it's not the reader that makes keywords, it's INTERN.
2017-01-05T16:15:51Z flip214: and using the keyword package has another disadvantage... previously I would accept keywords, but use their _lowercase_ symbol-names as symbols when looking up data
2017-01-05T16:16:05Z flip214: pjb: but does INTERN set the value and const-ness for keywords, too?
2017-01-05T16:16:11Z pjb: yes.
2017-01-05T16:16:37Z pjb: This is why I proposed to use keywords.  But since you use :|port| as a local variable, you cannot use keywords.
2017-01-05T16:16:49Z flip214: why did I get an unbound keyword, then?
2017-01-05T16:17:07Z pjb: I've seen no such error.
2017-01-05T16:17:08Z flip214: and I already changed the symbol that's used for argument names to a normal one
2017-01-05T16:18:22Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:20:23Z flip214: phoe_: pjb: thanks for all the help, have to feed the kids. Really appreciated!
2017-01-05T16:24:28Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:29:10Z milanj joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:29:45Z PuercoPop left #lisp
2017-01-05T16:29:49Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T16:31:21Z Denommus joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:32:16Z Denommus quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-05T16:32:19Z kevin1999 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T16:32:45Z Denommus joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:36:25Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:36:48Z phoe_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-05T16:38:46Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:38:49Z robotoad quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T16:39:17Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:40:00Z robotoad left #lisp
2017-01-05T16:42:24Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:56:21Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T16:56:25Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:57:34Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:59:38Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T16:59:52Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T17:00:34Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-05T17:02:15Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-05T17:02:30Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T17:05:04Z bmilk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T17:06:12Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-05T17:10:45Z zygentoma quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T17:11:53Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-05T17:12:03Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-05T17:19:04Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-05T17:20:40Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-05T17:24:05Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-05T17:25:04Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-05T17:27:57Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T17:29:01Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-05T17:32:01Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T17:33:59Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-05T17:34:27Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-05T17:34:27Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-05T17:35:02Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-05T17:35:10Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-05T17:37:43Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T17:40:57Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-05T17:42:16Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-05T17:42:24Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T17:45:02Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T17:45:40Z axion: Which doc-type do I use with DOCUMENTATION for CLOS slots?
2017-01-05T17:47:13Z sjl: axion: spec says impl-defined :(
2017-01-05T17:47:16Z sjl: > This standard prescribes no means to retrieve the documentation strings for individual slots specified in a defclass form,
2017-01-05T17:47:37Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-05T17:47:45Z axion: Ah, figures
2017-01-05T17:48:53Z sjl: closer-mop might have something
2017-01-05T17:50:42Z Bike: (documentation (find slot-name (mop:class-slots class) :key #'mop:slot-definition-name) t)
2017-01-05T17:50:45Z Bike: so easy.
2017-01-05T17:51:00Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-05T17:51:42Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-05T17:53:00Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-05T17:53:04Z axion: While it is easy, it is not very intuitive for users. I am defining documentation in a separate file instead of contained in their respective forms.
2017-01-05T17:53:27Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-05T17:53:30Z Bike: i was joking, this is ridiculous.
2017-01-05T17:54:02Z axion: No worries. Offline documentation it is for slots
2017-01-05T17:54:05Z Bike: that said, certain operators may print slot documentation as part of something else. DESCRIBE for example
2017-01-05T17:56:08Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-05T17:57:30Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T18:01:56Z axion: Also, for CLOS class definitions, should the doc-type be 'structure or 'type? Both seem to return the same thing, which may only be because classes define types of the same name. In that case, what is the recommended style here?
2017-01-05T18:03:15Z Bike: probably type. i didn't know structure was even allowed.
2017-01-05T18:11:30Z genericus joined #lisp
2017-01-05T18:14:10Z bocaneri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T18:16:44Z MetaHertz joined #lisp
2017-01-05T18:17:53Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-05T18:20:12Z Xof quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-05T18:24:40Z flip214: help about handler-bind and (values), please.  http://paste.lisp.org/display/335801
2017-01-05T18:25:04Z flip214: the :no-error case aborts with invalid number of arguments: 0
2017-01-05T18:25:09Z LiberalCarrot joined #lisp
2017-01-05T18:25:13Z LiberalCarrot left #lisp
2017-01-05T18:25:41Z Bike: wow, that's pretty obscure.
2017-01-05T18:26:05Z flip214: glad to be of service ;)
2017-01-05T18:26:09Z Bike: the no-error cause receives the values of the form. something like (multiple-value-call (lambda (result) (print result)) (foo arg)) here.
2017-01-05T18:26:20Z flip214: I'd expected the :no-error case to simple receive an empty list
2017-01-05T18:26:24Z flip214: but it doesn't work.
2017-01-05T18:26:39Z Bike: right. foo is actually returning no values, and this is one of the very few cases where that doesn't mean nil.
2017-01-05T18:27:25Z Bike: you could do (:no-error (&optional result) ...) to get the behavior you expected.
2017-01-05T18:27:30Z flip214: (handler-case (values) (:no-error (e) nil)) in the REPL is the minimum, I guess
2017-01-05T18:27:43Z Bike: ...note that if foo returns more than one value that will also fail for similar reasons.
2017-01-05T18:28:07Z Bike: the point is that handler-case through multiple-value-call is stricter about multiple values than  you are used to.
2017-01-05T18:28:18Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-05T18:28:31Z flip214: ah yes, right.
2017-01-05T18:28:38Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-05T18:28:54Z flip214: the multiple values get translated to an argument _each_, not simply to a list. ?
2017-01-05T18:29:33Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-05T18:29:57Z Bike: multiple-value-call is strict. if we limit to the case of one argument form, (multiple-value-call #'foo (bar)), then what happens is that foo receives exactly the values returned by bar as its arguments.
2017-01-05T18:30:08Z Bike: if that's no values foo gets no arguments.
2017-01-05T18:30:34Z flip214: thank you very much for the explanation!
2017-01-05T18:30:52Z Bike: i think it's pretty intuitive, it's just that practically nothing else in the language doesn't put in some extra leeway for you
2017-01-05T18:32:03Z flip214: thank you!
2017-01-05T18:32:09Z Bike: no problemo
2017-01-05T18:33:45Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-05T18:36:29Z rjid quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-05T18:39:39Z emerson quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-05T18:39:55Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-05T18:43:06Z sebboh: Hello!  How might I generate these docs locally? https://www.common-lisp.net/project/cl-graph/user-guide.html  ...I *think* that it is using docstrings from the lisp source itself.  ala https://github.com/gwkkwg/cl-graph/blob/master/website/source/user-guide.mmd#L68
2017-01-05T18:43:27Z sebboh: The reason I ask is that the source is currently newer than those published docs.
2017-01-05T18:43:55Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-05T18:46:13Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-05T18:49:44Z Bike: it looks like there's a .tmproj, suggesting you can put this together from TextMate somehow?
2017-01-05T18:49:47Z Xach: sebboh: i think gary king has his own doc creation pipeline.
2017-01-05T18:50:09Z Bike: don't see a makefile or nuthin
2017-01-05T18:50:16Z axion: Looks to be the case. I had problems with that library that I can't recall. I had better luck with http://eschulte.github.io/graph/ . Might be worth a try also.
2017-01-05T18:50:19Z dmiles joined #lisp
2017-01-05T18:51:56Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-05T18:55:05Z XdilaudidX:  Does anyone on here condone learning lisp as a first language?
2017-01-05T18:55:13Z Bike: sure
2017-01-05T18:55:21Z XdilaudidX: Instead of something like c or python?
2017-01-05T18:55:54Z Bike: C's not a good start anyway
2017-01-05T18:56:04Z XdilaudidX: I don't consider myself a programmer because I don't know the slightest bit of C
2017-01-05T18:56:21Z axion: I don't think one needs to know C to be a programmer
2017-01-05T18:56:43Z XdilaudidX: Yet I have a perfectly good office calculator in Lisp and soon to be an IRC client
2017-01-05T18:56:53Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-05T18:57:04Z XdilaudidX: Somehow the linux guys think different.
2017-01-05T18:57:11Z Xach: Wherever you start, don't stop.
2017-01-05T18:58:28Z XdilaudidX: Can writing lisp code even be defined as programming?  I just get this nagging feeling that I'm basically using visual basic for big boys.
2017-01-05T18:59:13Z Bike: don't subject yourself to ridiculous patriarchal contests
2017-01-05T18:59:19Z XdilaudidX: Even though I've tried.  I've got me a working Genera distro and I'm writing actual code on that
2017-01-05T18:59:31Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:00:17Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:00:44Z MrLawrence: Hello, is there a way to define variables that are only accessible in a particular file? like C static variables
2017-01-05T19:01:24Z Bike: not really, and in C it's actually a translation unit.
2017-01-05T19:01:28Z XdilaudidX: And today someone told me common lisp is dead.  Never mind that I can write a quick and dirty 6 line lisp script that does your C programs job.
2017-01-05T19:01:44Z Bike: usually you'd just define a dynamic variable (defvar, defparameter) and not use it outside of wherever.
2017-01-05T19:02:51Z XdilaudidX: It's only kept me wanting to keep Lisping.  Teco is a dead language and yet I use it as my day to day editor.
2017-01-05T19:02:58Z MrLawrence: I see, thanks
2017-01-05T19:03:09Z axion: Does anyone know how quickdocs and other documentation extraction tools cope with ~ and ~@ format directives?
2017-01-05T19:04:33Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:04:50Z axion: Is it even good style to have a really long docstring on one line, but readable in a file with the ~ directive?
2017-01-05T19:09:39Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-05T19:11:15Z unbalanced quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-05T19:11:41Z XdilaudidX quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T19:13:00Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:14:51Z sffb joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:17:38Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-05T19:18:25Z genericus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T19:19:56Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:21:59Z sffb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-05T19:28:35Z genericus joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:30:39Z genericus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T19:31:49Z emerson quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-05T19:32:06Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:32:26Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:32:34Z with-unique-name joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:33:53Z genericus joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:34:46Z XdilaudidX joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:34:46Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:35:22Z XdilaudidX: Does anyone use common lisp/zetaliap on genera like I do/
2017-01-05T19:35:23Z XdilaudidX: ?
2017-01-05T19:35:57Z genericus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T19:36:30Z genericus joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:36:47Z rumbler3_ quit
2017-01-05T19:37:16Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:38:09Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:38:39Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T19:39:30Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:40:05Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:40:59Z f3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:44:18Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:44:18Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-05T19:44:18Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:45:59Z eschatologist: XdilaudidX: there are a few peole who still use Genera
2017-01-05T19:46:14Z eschatologist: XdilaudidX: what are you using, a LispM or Open Genera on Alpha or x86-64?
2017-01-05T19:46:34Z Airo joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:46:37Z genericus quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2017-01-05T19:46:38Z XdilaudidX: I'm using x64 Genera.
2017-01-05T19:46:39Z eschatologist has an XL400 running 8.3
2017-01-05T19:47:22Z XdilaudidX: In fact, my work in Lisp is basically to write the programs users of other platforms take for granted.
2017-01-05T19:47:49Z XdilaudidX: A gopher client, a calculator, a Web browser...
2017-01-05T19:48:39Z XdilaudidX: Basically, if you weren't a programmer and someone sat you down in front of a LispM, what would you want to do your work?
2017-01-05T19:49:26Z milanj quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-05T19:52:16Z eschatologist: I'm not sure why someone would sit me down in front of a LispM if I wasn't a programmer.
2017-01-05T19:52:28Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T19:53:12Z XdilaudidX quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-05T19:53:16Z eschatologist: Having some things in Genera would be convenient for not having to switch systems, but I don't think, relatively speaking, that it's worth the investment to be writing web browsers and things like that. Even for a new system like Mezzano.
2017-01-05T19:54:40Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-05T19:57:45Z prole: but we need a conkeror clone written in lisp
2017-01-05T19:58:02Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-05T20:00:12Z kammd quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-05T20:01:07Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-05T20:07:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-05T20:08:53Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-05T20:14:33Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T20:16:12Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-05T20:16:40Z adlai: any idea when Fare returns?
2017-01-05T20:17:40Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T20:19:18Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-05T20:19:39Z XdilaudidX joined #lisp
2017-01-05T20:19:54Z XdilaudidX: sorry about that
2017-01-05T20:20:19Z XdilaudidX: yeah I'm on pc genera basically
2017-01-05T20:21:45Z StephanL` joined #lisp
2017-01-05T20:23:20Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-05T20:26:46Z MrLawrence: If I start learning Emacs Lisp, will I have acquired bad practices when transitioning to CL generally speaking?
2017-01-05T20:26:58Z MrLawrence: I'm guessing I should be fine
2017-01-05T20:28:23Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T20:30:32Z f3_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-05T20:32:19Z ikopico quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T20:33:12Z StephanL` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T20:34:17Z william_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T20:34:20Z william_ is now known as williamyaoh
2017-01-05T20:34:50Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-05T20:35:14Z williamyaoh: How do I override SLIME's default indentation?
2017-01-05T20:36:31Z axion: You don't, without hacks to the source, and making your peers very unhappy.
2017-01-05T20:36:32Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-05T20:37:41Z MetaHertz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-05T20:39:00Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-05T20:39:23Z williamyaoh: Well, I was more looking to override for just one macro, but I see your point.
2017-01-05T20:39:55Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-05T20:39:57Z prxq: actually, that is possible.
2017-01-05T20:40:07Z prxq: http://shinmera.github.io/trivial-indent/  ;;; don't know if it works though
2017-01-05T20:40:55Z prxq: https://www.common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Semantic-indentation.html ;;; some docs on the issue
2017-01-05T20:41:41Z williamyaoh: prxq: Thanks!
2017-01-05T20:42:16Z prxq: hth
2017-01-05T20:45:35Z ikopico joined #lisp
2017-01-05T20:47:17Z stevegt_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T20:49:46Z ikopico quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-05T20:51:54Z stevegt joined #lisp
2017-01-05T20:52:37Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-05T20:54:42Z pjb: MrLawrence: most of the emacs lisp code you can find around is average, and some quite medricre, even in the GNU emacs distribution itself.   However, there are still a few good things, but not many.
2017-01-05T20:55:12Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-05T20:55:22Z pjb: MrLawrence: in general the code quality you'll find in CL libraries is of higher quality.
2017-01-05T20:55:35Z pjb: MrLawrence: but in any case, this doesn't prevent you to write good emacs lisp code.
2017-01-05T20:59:29Z stevegt_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T21:00:58Z zygentoma quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T21:05:03Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-05T21:06:19Z reepca quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T21:08:04Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-05T21:08:37Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-05T21:10:38Z hhdave_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T21:10:52Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T21:11:41Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-05T21:13:19Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T21:13:19Z hhdave_ is now known as hhdave
2017-01-05T21:16:40Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T21:18:08Z honeywhite joined #lisp
2017-01-05T21:18:08Z XdilaudidX quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-05T21:21:38Z sebboh: ...How could I have not have found eschulte's graph library before axion mentioned it, when I have used another project of his AND spent tons on time wandering around in the intersection of CL and graphviz??
2017-01-05T21:22:00Z sebboh: Folks, CL projects have a discoverablility problem.
2017-01-05T21:22:14Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-05T21:22:22Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-05T21:22:45Z axion: sebboh: it really is an amazing library
2017-01-05T21:23:23Z axion: Not really, (ql:system-apropos "graph")
2017-01-05T21:23:34Z axion: Is how I found it
2017-01-05T21:23:47Z Bike: "Folks, system-apropos has a discoverability problem."
2017-01-05T21:24:07Z Xach: sebboh: quickdocs.org helps a bit
2017-01-05T21:24:33Z Xach: sebboh: I have been using it a lot when I am making new stuff
2017-01-05T21:24:52Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T21:25:21Z manualcrank quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-05T21:25:57Z sebboh: axion, I see, I see... https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/issues/565 since 2013.  I have absolutely done apropos in QL for "graph"...  I must have seen it and passed for some reason.  Or gone down some rabbit hole before getting to that result. *sigh*
2017-01-05T21:26:00Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-05T21:26:12Z cesdo joined #lisp
2017-01-05T21:29:03Z sebboh: Xach, thanks!  I've read docs via quickdocs before, but when linked there from somewhere like a search engine or project page. I never tried visiting the root of the domain...
2017-01-05T21:29:15Z jasom: is there a short description for each system in ql?
2017-01-05T21:29:16Z sebboh: High fives all around.
2017-01-05T21:29:33Z Xach: jasom: no. i hope to have something like that soon.
2017-01-05T21:29:41Z Xach: jasom: something accessible in the repl.
2017-01-05T21:30:01Z jasom: IIRC I've grepped through ql monthly status reports to find those before
2017-01-05T21:30:16Z sebboh: jasom: yes, as have I.
2017-01-05T21:31:10Z sebboh: http://quickdocs.org/donuts/ <-- hm!
2017-01-05T21:33:09Z yincha joined #lisp
2017-01-05T21:33:16Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-05T21:35:45Z yincha: hello guys, plese tell me how use terminal codes in CL output? for example: how write this 'echo -e "\033[1;31m red \033[0m"' in CL (using (format ...))?
2017-01-05T21:36:47Z jasom: yincha: \033 is the character #\Esc in most lisp implementations
2017-01-05T21:36:47Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T21:37:10Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-05T21:37:12Z jasom: so (format "~C[1;31m red ~C[0m" #\Esc #\Esc) would be one way
2017-01-05T21:37:49Z jasom: (format t "~C[1;31m red ~C[0m" #\Esc #\Esc)
2017-01-05T21:38:10Z yincha: oh, thank
2017-01-05T21:38:48Z jasom: #\Escape might be more portable; (code-char 27) is even more reliable
2017-01-05T21:38:59Z jasom: (27 is the same as octal 33)
2017-01-05T21:39:05Z sebboh: Yeah, what jsom said.  Here's a line I use to move the cursor... I think. :) (format T "~c~a" (code-char #o33) "[1A")
2017-01-05T21:41:48Z jasom: If you're doing a lot of escape codes, you might want to make a function that generates the codes for you.
2017-01-05T21:42:30Z PuercoPop: jasom: It wouldn't be to hard to code, something like http://paste.lisp.org/+773Z (or probably having an optional argument key to change what field does apropos match against. The problem is ql systems don't store that information from the asdf systems, short-description is the accessor for the name property :'(
2017-01-05T21:42:32Z pjb: yincha: I use my com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.ecma048 package.
2017-01-05T21:43:29Z pjb: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/doc/com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.ecma048.html
2017-01-05T21:47:13Z yincha: pjb thank
2017-01-05T21:47:28Z deank quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-05T21:48:03Z s_gould joined #lisp
2017-01-05T21:48:53Z stevegt_ quit (Quit: Client Exiting)
2017-01-05T21:49:10Z stevegt_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T21:50:55Z stevegt left #lisp
2017-01-05T21:51:36Z stevegt_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-05T21:51:41Z svetlyak40wt quit
2017-01-05T21:51:50Z stevegt_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T21:51:59Z stevegt_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-05T21:52:15Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-05T21:53:00Z stevegt_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T21:55:57Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-05T21:57:45Z jasom: yincha: here's an example using ~/ (because there's always more than one way to do it): http://paste.lisp.org/+7740
2017-01-05T22:00:38Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-05T22:00:54Z manualcrank left #lisp
2017-01-05T22:04:58Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-05T22:06:26Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-05T22:06:51Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-05T22:10:27Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T22:13:24Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T22:14:12Z Xof joined #lisp
2017-01-05T22:16:45Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-05T22:18:41Z eschatologist: There's API in QL for iterating the systems it knows about, right?
2017-01-05T22:22:02Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-05T22:26:26Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-05T22:28:03Z honeywhite quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T22:30:19Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T22:37:05Z prole quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T22:44:48Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T22:45:19Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-05T22:45:28Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-05T22:45:58Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-05T22:47:34Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-05T22:48:57Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T22:54:00Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-05T22:57:48Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-05T22:59:00Z Tex_Nick quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T23:04:20Z Airo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T23:05:06Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-05T23:05:26Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T23:05:29Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-05T23:06:28Z rotty quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-05T23:07:27Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-05T23:07:59Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T23:09:59Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-05T23:11:16Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-05T23:15:00Z boxxlab quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T23:19:35Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T23:20:04Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-05T23:20:49Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-05T23:20:49Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-05T23:20:50Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-05T23:22:14Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-05T23:23:28Z hhdave quit (Quit: hhdave)
2017-01-05T23:24:13Z ikki joined #lisp
2017-01-05T23:24:43Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-05T23:26:52Z xantoz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-05T23:30:14Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-05T23:31:56Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-05T23:32:19Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-05T23:37:40Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-05T23:38:50Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T23:39:00Z yeticry_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T23:39:58Z xantoz joined #lisp
2017-01-05T23:41:26Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T23:41:39Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-05T23:44:20Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-05T23:45:46Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-05T23:48:31Z nrp3c quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-05T23:49:25Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-05T23:50:15Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-05T23:53:16Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-05T23:56:37Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-05T23:57:11Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-05T23:58:55Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-05T23:59:42Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-06T00:01:00Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-06T00:01:23Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T00:04:50Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T00:07:23Z Xach: eschatologist: yes
2017-01-06T00:07:31Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T00:07:41Z Xach: eschatologist: the stuff in ql-dist is the core of ql, everything else is frontend to that
2017-01-06T00:07:45Z eschatologist: Cool.
2017-01-06T00:07:47Z eschatologist: Thanks!
2017-01-06T00:14:50Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-06T00:18:37Z Xach: no problemo
2017-01-06T00:28:43Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-06T00:28:49Z himmAllRight quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T00:29:05Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-06T00:31:23Z peccu1 quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-06T00:32:29Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-06T00:34:19Z peccu1 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T00:41:58Z rebelshrug quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T00:42:28Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T00:43:49Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-06T00:44:04Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-06T00:47:47Z vkashyap quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T00:49:30Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-06T00:49:48Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T00:51:03Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-06T00:54:40Z vkashyap joined #lisp
2017-01-06T00:55:27Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-06T00:55:59Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T00:56:08Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T01:05:43Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:12:35Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-06T01:13:51Z Subfusc quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:51Z unrahul quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:51Z rvirding quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z housel quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z peterhil quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z fkac quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z tobel quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z rann quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z SCHAAP137 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z koisoke quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z Firedancer quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z ramus quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z detergnet quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z WojciechK quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z drmeister quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z lemoinem quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z N3vYn quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z Posterdati quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z drdo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z SlashLife quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z tmc quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z kolko quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z redcedar quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z fulon quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z mtd quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z nhandler quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z whiteline quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z cross quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z tiago quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:52Z pent_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:53Z sebboh quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:53Z Urfin_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:53Z eschulte quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:53Z pok quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:53Z newcup quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:13:53Z zacts quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-06T01:13:58Z koisoke_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z Urfin joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z LyndsySimon quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z mjl quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z asedeno quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z velvetcore quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z Quadrescence quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z cyraxjoe quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z aaronjensen quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z amoe quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z trig-ger quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z eschatologist quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z kini quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z aeth quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z loke` quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z anachrom1 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z ineiros quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z joast quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:00Z arbv quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:01Z jasom quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:01Z sbryant quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:01Z ``Erik quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:01Z zymurgy quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:01Z alphor quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:01Z zkat quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:01Z |3b| quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:01Z XachX quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:01Z brucem quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:01Z zerac quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:01Z otwieracz quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:02Z leo_song quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:02Z cmpitg quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:02Z solene quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:02Z arpunk quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:02Z Hoolootwo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:02Z tephra quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:02Z Fade quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T01:14:02Z Wojciech_K joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:03Z pok_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:03Z pok_ is now known as pok
2017-01-06T01:14:03Z msb joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:06Z ineiros_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:07Z fkac joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:08Z anachrome joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:08Z tephra_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:08Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:08Z eschulte joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:08Z Faed joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:09Z mtd joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:11Z aeth joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:13Z amoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:13Z ``Erik joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:13Z ramus joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:13Z Firedancer joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:14Z alphor joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:15Z sebboh joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:15Z kolko joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:15Z loke` joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:16Z leo_song joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:17Z housel joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:19Z otwieracz joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:22Z aeth quit (Changing host)
2017-01-06T01:14:22Z aeth joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:23Z Hoolootwo joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:23Z cross joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:24Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:25Z sbryant_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:27Z pent joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:27Z N3vYn joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:30Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:31Z sbryant_ is now known as sbryant
2017-01-06T01:14:35Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:35Z arpunk joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:37Z zacts joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:37Z jasom joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:38Z drdo joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:38Z tiago joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:39Z zerac joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:39Z fulon joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:41Z solene joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:42Z sebboh quit (Changing host)
2017-01-06T01:14:42Z sebboh joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:14:50Z pjb quit (Quit: be seeing you!)
2017-01-06T01:14:57Z |3b|` joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:15:03Z peterhil joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:15:07Z himmAllRight17 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:15:10Z Subfusc joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:15:14Z cmpitg joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:15:18Z zymurgy joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:15:31Z Quadrescence quit (Changing host)
2017-01-06T01:15:31Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:15:47Z himmAllRight quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T01:15:56Z brucem joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:16:14Z zacts is now known as Guest1165
2017-01-06T01:16:15Z tiago is now known as Guest21291
2017-01-06T01:16:22Z Guest21291 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-06T01:16:22Z Guest21291 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:16:23Z cmpitg is now known as Guest3011
2017-01-06T01:16:25Z Guest1165 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-06T01:16:25Z Guest1165 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:16:26Z angular_mike_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T01:16:28Z Guest3011 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-06T01:16:28Z Guest3011 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:16:36Z eschatologist joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:16:37Z tmc joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:16:38Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:16:38Z kini joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:16:44Z Guest1165 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T01:16:50Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T01:17:08Z ghostlight quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T01:17:46Z emerson quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T01:17:50Z nhandler joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:17:59Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:18:04Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:18:10Z ggherdov quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T01:18:12Z srcerer quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T01:19:08Z chronull joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:21:39Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:21:45Z SCHAAP137 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:22:59Z redcedar joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:23:17Z unrahul joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:23:37Z rvirding joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:24:07Z kevin1999 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:25:08Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:25:31Z tobel joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:25:49Z srcerer joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:25:57Z trig-ger joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:25:59Z rann joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:26:22Z asedeno joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:26:28Z zkat joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:27:24Z ggherdov joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:27:56Z joast joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:28:13Z velvetcore joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:28:15Z drmeister joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:30:11Z whiteline joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:34:00Z angular_mike_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:34:31Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:37:41Z aaronjensen joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:41:23Z mjl joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:45:03Z XachX joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:45:17Z LyndsySimon joined #lisp
2017-01-06T01:45:21Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T01:53:12Z LooneyTunes quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T01:59:39Z pillton joined #lisp
2017-01-06T02:03:16Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-06T02:03:27Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-06T02:06:00Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2017-01-06T02:06:49Z s_gould quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-06T02:08:31Z yeticry_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T02:09:33Z yeticry joined #lisp
2017-01-06T02:10:09Z bmilk joined #lisp
2017-01-06T02:13:19Z ghostlight joined #lisp
2017-01-06T02:14:54Z glamas joined #lisp
2017-01-06T02:17:46Z glamas quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T02:18:12Z bmilk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T02:19:21Z bmilk joined #lisp
2017-01-06T02:20:44Z boxxlab joined #lisp
2017-01-06T02:22:36Z pillton quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-06T02:23:12Z loke`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T02:31:47Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-06T02:34:26Z kevin1999 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T02:39:21Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-06T02:40:18Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T02:41:54Z yrk quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.91.1))
2017-01-06T02:46:48Z lexicall joined #lisp
2017-01-06T02:49:37Z lexicall: hi, i'm looking around in CL's condition system. i want to ask that wether CL is able to save current computing frame into some object and return to that place again in future? What's the difference with RESTART in CL and CALL/CC in scheme?
2017-01-06T02:49:44Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-06T02:50:31Z Bike: restarts don't have indefinite extent, no.
2017-01-06T02:51:37Z himmAllRight17 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-06T02:52:13Z lexicall: and is the third-party packages like cl-cont able to do so?
2017-01-06T02:53:20Z Bike: cl-cont rewrites code into continuation passing style (by which you can do continuations in anything with first class functions)
2017-01-06T02:53:46Z Bike: i don't know what the extents are
2017-01-06T02:54:46Z lexicall: ok, thanks for your explanation.
2017-01-06T03:03:25Z midre joined #lisp
2017-01-06T03:03:40Z lexicall quit (Quit: Ah, my macbook is gonna sleep!)
2017-01-06T03:06:15Z bmilk quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T03:08:00Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T03:08:26Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-06T03:12:42Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T03:13:14Z marusich joined #lisp
2017-01-06T03:13:40Z eSVG joined #lisp
2017-01-06T03:17:08Z moei quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T03:23:04Z marusich quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-06T03:25:07Z marusich joined #lisp
2017-01-06T03:29:46Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T03:31:22Z eSVG quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T03:44:50Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T03:45:41Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T03:45:51Z eSVG joined #lisp
2017-01-06T03:59:12Z marusich quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T04:03:47Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T04:06:37Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-06T04:11:46Z glamas joined #lisp
2017-01-06T04:12:01Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-06T04:14:34Z glamas quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T04:15:11Z drmeister: So - I need a UTF-8 encoder/decoder in C++ for Common Lisp streams - do I just write one myself?
2017-01-06T04:19:38Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T04:22:11Z kammd joined #lisp
2017-01-06T04:24:30Z Fare: what do you meann "in C++ for CL streams"???
2017-01-06T04:24:44Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-06T04:24:56Z pacon quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T04:25:24Z Fare: Bike: how does sbcl + cl-cont compare in speed to your average scheme implementation?
2017-01-06T04:25:33Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-06T04:25:36Z Bike: i have no idea
2017-01-06T04:31:13Z Zhivago: I expect it would be worse than bigloo.
2017-01-06T04:33:23Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-06T04:34:23Z drmeister: I think I'll just implement the encoder/decoder myself - it doesn't look too difficult.
2017-01-06T04:34:54Z Bike: famous last word?
2017-01-06T04:34:55Z Bike: s
2017-01-06T04:35:12Z drmeister: Fare - Clasp's streams (other than Gray streams) are implemented in C++.   So I need the decoder/encoder to be implemented in C++ as well.
2017-01-06T04:36:49Z Bike: http://utfcpp.sourceforge.net/ this looks like it goes back and forth between utf32 and utf8, maybe what you need
2017-01-06T04:37:23Z drmeister: How bad can it be?   I want READ-CHAR to read a byte and if it's a UTF-8 start byte - read up to three more and convert them into a character - correct?
2017-01-06T04:38:31Z Zhivago: It's pretty trivial. The first character tells you how many more to read.
2017-01-06T04:39:34Z Zhivago: On the other hand, why do you expect read-char to read a byte?
2017-01-06T04:40:34Z Fare: drmeister, presumably, no one else who a decoder for your streams, unless ECL has it.
2017-01-06T04:40:59Z Fare: drmeister, you mean, READ-BYTE ?
2017-01-06T04:41:13Z drmeister: I don't use ECL C code.
2017-01-06T04:41:18Z Fare: Also, in Lisp, there are various kinds of gray streams that you could reuse (or simple-streams)
2017-01-06T04:41:42Z Fare: you can't bootstrap this stuff into Lisp land?
2017-01-06T04:41:46Z drmeister: I did copy ECL's approach to streams.
2017-01-06T04:41:58Z Fare: you might be able to copy their code
2017-01-06T04:41:58Z drmeister: Fare: It's a bit late to be asking that question - and no.
2017-01-06T04:42:54Z Fare: I'm sure there are plenty of utf-8 decoders in C++ already, so it would just be a matter of tweaking them to use your read-byte.
2017-01-06T04:43:07Z drmeister: Yes, read-byte.
2017-01-06T04:46:12Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T04:46:23Z drmeister: Nope - wait - I'm wrong.    I did more or less copy the ECL stream code.
2017-01-06T04:47:01Z drmeister: I thought I did a rough translation but now that I look at it I copied the stream code pretty faithfully, translating it into C++.
2017-01-06T04:47:15Z drmeister: I say that because I copied the encoders and decoders as well.
2017-01-06T04:47:40Z pillton joined #lisp
2017-01-06T04:47:48Z drmeister: My problem appears to be already solved. Yay.
2017-01-06T04:47:57Z vlnx_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T04:48:47Z vlnx joined #lisp
2017-01-06T04:48:57Z Fare: congrats!
2017-01-06T04:49:04Z Fare: how's clasp these days/
2017-01-06T04:49:05Z Fare: ?
2017-01-06T04:49:17Z Fare: do you have more patches for ASDF ?
2017-01-06T04:49:30Z drmeister: No patches for ASDF - everything has been working fine.
2017-01-06T04:49:49Z drmeister: I spent the last couple of weeks ripping out and replacing arrays/simple-arrays/strings/bitvectors.
2017-01-06T04:49:50Z Fare: maybe patches to issue the new not-implemented-error in some cases?
2017-01-06T04:50:04Z drmeister: They were fubar - now they are Common Lisp compliant.
2017-01-06T04:50:21Z Fare: how fast/slow is the compiler these days?
2017-01-06T04:50:45Z Fare: drmeister: you're the greatest yak shaver in the universe, you know?
2017-01-06T04:51:17Z drmeister: The compiler is still slow.   I suspect its because Cleavir makes heavy use of generic functions.   I've been working towards implementing the generic function dispatch implementation that beach published.
2017-01-06T04:52:43Z pillton: Are there fast ways of computing (+ offset (* index-0 stride-0) ...) where the result is known to be valid array index?
2017-01-06T04:52:45Z drmeister: Clasp now has UTF-32 strings and 8-bit character strings.
2017-01-06T04:55:14Z Bike: like an integer fma? i would guess not especially...
2017-01-06T04:55:31Z ikki quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T04:55:39Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-06T04:59:20Z Bike: if i want a class slot to have a default value computed from another slot, i'd do that in what, an :after on shared-initialize?
2017-01-06T04:59:24Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-06T04:59:25Z pillton: Bike: Ok. Thanks.
2017-01-06T04:59:57Z Bike: i mean there's some stuff you can do. like if stride is known you can do shifts and crap instead of a multiply
2017-01-06T05:00:32Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T05:02:48Z brucem quit (Changing host)
2017-01-06T05:02:48Z brucem joined #lisp
2017-01-06T05:03:28Z pillton: Bike: Yeah shared-initialize would be ok depending on your definition of default.
2017-01-06T05:07:20Z Zhivago: Pillton: Are you looking for row-major-aref?
2017-01-06T05:11:36Z pillton: Zhivago: No. The strides can be negative.
2017-01-06T05:14:17Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T05:16:47Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-06T05:17:22Z pillton: Oh mask-field. Duh.
2017-01-06T05:20:39Z pillton: Zhivago: Sorry. My response must have been confusing. I interpreted row-major-aref as array-row-major-index.
2017-01-06T05:22:26Z pillton: Zhivago: That works too. Thanks.
2017-01-06T05:22:43Z pillton: ...where works means generates better code.
2017-01-06T05:23:18Z pillton: Bah...assembler.
2017-01-06T05:23:25Z pillton gives up.
2017-01-06T05:23:48Z marusich joined #lisp
2017-01-06T05:23:54Z Zhivago: Good. :)
2017-01-06T05:24:32Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T05:25:04Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-06T05:27:24Z pillton quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-06T05:27:35Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-06T05:28:04Z akkad: so manardb:doclass interates. is there a way to exit on say, the first value returned matching the criteria in with-slots?
2017-01-06T05:35:34Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T05:35:35Z nrp3c quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T05:37:38Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-06T05:40:29Z shdeng quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-06T05:47:28Z marusich_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T05:51:03Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-06T05:51:12Z marusich quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T05:51:46Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-06T05:52:54Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-06T05:53:57Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T05:54:52Z marusich_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-06T05:56:38Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-06T05:56:42Z akkad: Is there a way to compare clos object references in something a bit less awkward than this? (string-equal (format nil "~A" myclass-instance1) (format nil "~A" myclass-someinstance))
2017-01-06T05:57:47Z Bike: ...wha?
2017-01-06T05:57:59Z akkad: yes.
2017-01-06T05:58:03Z akkad: i know....
2017-01-06T05:58:12Z Bike: why are you doing that? in what way are you trying to compare them?
2017-01-06T05:58:41Z akkad: yeah. iterating through all instances of an object class, and trying to find the one that matches. without comparing actual slot-value
2017-01-06T05:59:04Z akkad: and since clos equality is not obvious to me
2017-01-06T05:59:35Z Bike: instances don't have any intrinsic equivalence classes except for eq-ness.
2017-01-06T05:59:48Z Bike: usually you'd define one for whatever you're doing. like comparing the slot values or whatever.
2017-01-06T06:00:30Z akkad: fetching from manardb, and wanted to avoid n number slot-value compares if one could compare the object actually stored in the slot itself
2017-01-06T06:00:51Z akkad: obviously no idea what i am doing.
2017-01-06T06:01:07Z cyberlard is now known as LK-II
2017-01-06T06:01:12Z Bike: so... do you want to consider two /different/ instances equal? as in, instances from different calls to make-instance or whatever.
2017-01-06T06:01:26Z with-unique-name quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-06T06:03:01Z akkad: it should be a set, without dupes afa slot values go. the label as seen by format seems consistent
2017-01-06T06:03:16Z vtomole: lfam: I'm still getting "can't install grub on sda" for qemu
2017-01-06T06:03:18Z akkad: nvm. I'm just doing this horribly
2017-01-06T06:03:35Z Bike: ...i mean... if you'r ecomparing the strings you're comparing whatever is output by your print-object methods
2017-01-06T06:03:40Z Bike: and i don't know what those are
2017-01-06T06:03:51Z Bike: and i have no idea whether you answered my question or not.
2017-01-06T06:05:12Z akkad: bike:  https://gist.github.com/c0f35a94f74f726c11b3cb4a58c216cc is the actual code. the second function is the attempt to reduce compares/slot-value dereferencing. given srcaddr/dstaddr objects are far fewer than total flow objects
2017-01-06T06:06:43Z axion: akkad: You messaged me yesterday looking for ways to improve performance. You can pretty much forget about it anytime you use FORMAT for starters.
2017-01-06T06:07:00Z axion: And this is not how you check objects for equality anyway
2017-01-06T06:07:34Z m_zr0 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T06:07:49Z akkad: absolutely. was just testing it
2017-01-06T06:08:31Z akkad: axion: it was a secret, that I seek performance. :P
2017-01-06T06:09:09Z axion: Have you ever considered that the ancient manardb is the main bottleneck? I mean have you done your data transformations without touching the database first?
2017-01-06T06:09:11Z akkad: hmm cliki down again
2017-01-06T06:09:42Z akkad: yes. i was using postgres/mysql/sqlite for the last 2 years, and manardb was a major improvement.
2017-01-06T06:10:16Z axion: That doesn't say much. Any real database can be slow with an improper schema or for the usage patterns
2017-01-06T06:10:34Z axion: Esepcially without tx's
2017-01-06T06:10:47Z akkad: sure. please assume it was all the worst possible use case
2017-01-06T06:10:50Z lxpz quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T06:10:53Z axion: Ha
2017-01-06T06:10:57Z akkad: no tranactions, or COPY.
2017-01-06T06:11:30Z akkad: my shitty code is the bottle neck, and silly ideas
2017-01-06T06:11:31Z lxpz joined #lisp
2017-01-06T06:12:53Z axion: You could always start over, and do it correctly in a fraction of the time. I would modularize it a bit more than the code you showed me though. Don't couple it to 10 different libraries preventing it from being properly optimized or maintained
2017-01-06T06:14:18Z LK-II is now known as the
2017-01-06T06:15:30Z akkad: agreed.
2017-01-06T06:17:21Z axion: Good luck, and I am sorry if I am being critical. If you do decide to go that route and need help, just ask me.
2017-01-06T06:20:19Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-06T06:20:31Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T06:21:13Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T06:21:53Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-06T06:22:01Z akkad: no, it's valid feedback
2017-01-06T06:22:03Z akkad: i appreciate it
2017-01-06T06:23:17Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-06T06:29:43Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-06T06:31:29Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-06T06:32:37Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-06T06:32:52Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T06:33:48Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-06T06:36:19Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T06:37:56Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-06T06:39:26Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-06T06:41:51Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T06:42:31Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-06T06:46:24Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-06T06:46:54Z burtons quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-06T06:48:07Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-06T06:50:52Z the is now known as cyberlard
2017-01-06T06:51:27Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-06T06:51:51Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T06:52:39Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-06T06:53:57Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-06T06:54:31Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T06:55:26Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:00:28Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-06T07:02:48Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-06T07:03:58Z burtons joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:10:19Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:10:57Z yoonkn joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:11:04Z yoonkn quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T07:13:12Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:17:00Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T07:19:04Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:21:10Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:21:52Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T07:22:40Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:24:24Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-06T07:26:50Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:33:38Z rogersm quit (Quit: rogersm)
2017-01-06T07:34:07Z rogersm joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:35:20Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T07:35:53Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:37:03Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-06T07:37:35Z yoonkn joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:48:46Z shdeng quit (Ping timeout: 254 seconds)
2017-01-06T07:49:19Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:49:20Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:50:24Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:50:38Z rogersm quit (Quit: rogersm)
2017-01-06T07:51:01Z eSVG quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T07:53:08Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:55:41Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-06T07:59:00Z Fare: beach: good morning!
2017-01-06T07:59:16Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T07:59:28Z Fare: new improved version of my https://github.com/fare/fci2017
2017-01-06T07:59:34Z Davidbrcz quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T07:59:39Z tokik quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-06T08:00:09Z tokik joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:02:08Z o1e9 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:02:55Z beach: Fare: It's pretty tight for me.  I'll do my best during the day.
2017-01-06T08:05:42Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:06:46Z d4ryus2 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:07:32Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:09:28Z d4ryus1 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:09:28Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:11:48Z satran_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:12:19Z mfh joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:15:09Z eSVG joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:16:56Z mfh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-06T08:19:50Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T08:20:02Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T08:20:04Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:20:19Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:21:21Z travv0 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T08:21:37Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:21:44Z schjetne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T08:22:27Z stux|RC-only quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T08:22:49Z adlai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T08:22:57Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:23:16Z alandipert quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:23:31Z bounb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:23:41Z pegu` joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:23:48Z wizzo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:23:58Z e quit (Quit: edk)
2017-01-06T08:24:32Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:24:58Z adlai joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:25:24Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:25:24Z joast quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:25:24Z pok quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:25:24Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:25:25Z megalography quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:25:25Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:25:36Z Lord_Nightmare quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:25:36Z Posterdati quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:25:56Z anachrome quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:25:57Z nopf quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:26:01Z cods quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:26:01Z Walex quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:26:14Z pok joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:26:30Z anachrome joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:26:30Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:26:47Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:27:00Z cods joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:27:41Z pegu quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:29:45Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:29:50Z stux|RC-only joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:30:18Z wizzo joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:31:08Z defaultxr quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-06T08:31:14Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:31:28Z tomaw quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:28Z xristos quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:28Z tilpner quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:28Z makufiru quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:28Z setheus quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:28Z krrrcks quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:28Z nimiux quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:28Z razzy quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:28Z eMBee quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:28Z ck_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:28Z forgot quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:28Z Kaisyu quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:28Z habs quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:29Z yeltzooo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:29Z mood quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:29Z beach quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:29Z akkad quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:29Z chream quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:29Z malice` quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:29Z neuro_sys quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:29Z fitzsim quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:29Z drot quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:29Z QualityAddict quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:29Z dcluna quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z roscoe_tw quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z AntiSpamMeta quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z fjl_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z norfumpit quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z omilu quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z gabot quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z killmaster quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z vhost- quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z unbalancedparen quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z jackdaniel quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z nullman quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z Ober quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z derrida quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z nydel quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z toogley quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z sigjuice quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:30Z payphone quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z sohail quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z rjeli quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z hjudt quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z fluxit quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z knobo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z splittist quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z mklk quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z Blukunfando quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z seg quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z yrdz quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z cpape quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z antoszka quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z banjiewen quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z lancetw quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z dan64- quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z lonjil quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z wooden_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:31Z vibs29 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:32Z axion quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:32Z Patzy quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:32Z jmasseo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:32Z paroneayea quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:32Z d4gg4d quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:32Z gbyers quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:32Z wyan quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:32Z Glitchy quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:32Z NhanH quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:33Z vsync quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:33Z tanuzzo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:33Z benny quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:33Z copec quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:33Z rpav quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z cibs quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z kjeldahl quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z marsjaninzmarsa quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z heddwch quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z arjenve quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z z0d quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z des_consolado quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z Intensity quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z foom quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z k4rtik quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z kilimanjaro quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z danieli quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z __main__ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z lnostdal quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z holly2 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z itruslove quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z shymega quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z p_l quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z cebreidian quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z davsebamse quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:34Z beaky quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:35Z shikhin quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:35Z askatasuna quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:35Z SAL9000 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:35Z borodust quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:35Z jibanes quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:35Z gko quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:35Z neuri8 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:35Z grindhold quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:35Z cyberlard quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:35Z CEnnis91 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:35Z whartung quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:35Z Oddity quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:35Z mrSpec quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:36Z emma quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:36Z gendl quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:36Z sepi`` quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:36Z arrsim quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:36Z Karunamon quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:36Z alms_clozure quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:36Z jsnell quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:36Z billstclair quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:36Z pareidolia quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:36Z Nikotiini quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:36Z flip214 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:36Z pankracy_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:37Z phadthai quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:37Z pjstirling quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:37Z brandonz quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:37Z TMA quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:37Z cantstanya quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:37Z eagleflo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:37Z jself quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:37Z joga quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:37Z tokenrove quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:37Z theBlackDragon quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:38Z luis quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:31:38Z ec\ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T08:32:11Z ghostlight quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:32:12Z bounb joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:32:32Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:32:44Z nopf joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:33:01Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:33:42Z mbrock quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:33:46Z raynold quit (Ping timeout: 247 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:33:51Z emerson quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T08:33:56Z Walex joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:34:06Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:34:26Z ggherdov quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:34:29Z unrahul quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:34:29Z l1x quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:34:49Z trig-ger quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:35:00Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:35:08Z angular_mike_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:35:34Z rann quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:35:36Z MorTal1ty quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:35:43Z alandipert joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:09Z PuercoPop quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:37:22Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z Intensity joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z marsjaninzmarsa joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z chream joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z tilpner joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z heddwch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z arjenve joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z malice` joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z copec joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z borodust joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z beach joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z splittist joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z mklk joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z yrdz joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z drot joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z cpape joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z antoszka joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z foom joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z makufiru joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z danieli joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z setheus joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z dan64- joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z lonjil joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z __main__ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z QualityAddict joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z neuro_sys joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z wooden_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z holly2 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z vibs29 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z dcluna joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z nimiux joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z razzy joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z itruslove joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z shymega joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z cebreidian joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z axion joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z roscoe_tw joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z fjl_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z fitzsim joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z beaky joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z norfumpit joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z akkad joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z shikhin joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z flip214 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z Patzy joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z pankracy_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z SAL9000 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z eMBee joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z ck_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z forgot joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z phadthai joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z pjstirling joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z jibanes joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z gabot joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z gko joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z brandonz joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z jmasseo joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z killmaster joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z neuri8 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z vhost- joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z unbalancedparen joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z TMA joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z rpav joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z paroneayea joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z nullman joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z Ober joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z grindhold joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z kjeldahl joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z cyberlard joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z habs joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z xristos joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z derrida joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z nydel joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z whartung joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z yeltzooo joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z d4gg4d joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z Oddity joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z mrSpec joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z des_consolado joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z z0d joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z emma joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z gendl joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z sepi`` joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z toogley joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z eagleflo joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z gbyers joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z wyan joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z Glitchy joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z sigjuice joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z arrsim joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z Karunamon joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z alms_clozure joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z jsnell joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z vsync joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z billstclair joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z payphone joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z tanuzzo joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z jself joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z sohail joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z joga joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z rjeli joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z tokenrove joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z mood joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z hjudt joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z luis joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z benny joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z ec\ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z fluxit joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:40Z knobo joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:44Z Tristam joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:49Z Tristam quit (Changing host)
2017-01-06T08:37:49Z Tristam joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:52Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:37:53Z ec\ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-06T08:37:55Z beaky quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-06T08:38:08Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:38:20Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:38:23Z ec\ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:38:26Z megalography joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:39:01Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T08:39:17Z pok is now known as Guest15493
2017-01-06T08:39:23Z bounb quit (Changing host)
2017-01-06T08:39:23Z bounb joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:39:33Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:39:51Z Lord_Nightmare joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:40:20Z d4gg4d quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:40:20Z beaky joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:40:34Z gendl quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:40:48Z wyan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:40:57Z PuercoPop joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:40:57Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:41:22Z beaky quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T08:41:22Z srcerer quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:41:46Z beaky joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:41:48Z unrahul joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:43:11Z tomaw joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:43:31Z mbrock joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:44:02Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:45:27Z cantstanya joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:45:40Z MorTal1ty joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:46:42Z rann joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:47:39Z gendl joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:48:04Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:49:19Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:49:39Z mhasan joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:49:53Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:50:02Z ggherdov joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:50:15Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:50:15Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-06T08:50:15Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:50:22Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-06T08:50:46Z wyan joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:51:03Z d4gg4d joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:51:22Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:51:33Z satran_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:51:49Z angular_mike_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:51:51Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:52:14Z lancetw joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:52:41Z trig-ger joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:52:43Z p_l joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:52:59Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:53:12Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T08:54:11Z banjiewen joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:54:27Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:55:00Z kilimanjaro joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:55:11Z satran_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:56:37Z ggherdov quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-06T08:56:46Z NhanH joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:58:16Z l1x joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:58:57Z ggherdov joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:59:35Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-06T08:59:36Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-06T09:00:36Z satran_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T09:02:42Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-06T09:03:56Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-06T09:05:48Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T09:09:46Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T09:09:48Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T09:12:20Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T09:13:02Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T09:16:19Z billstclair joined #lisp
2017-01-06T09:18:22Z Guest15493 is now known as pok
2017-01-06T09:24:10Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T09:26:09Z m_zr0 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T09:27:52Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-06T09:33:54Z ghostlight joined #lisp
2017-01-06T09:36:48Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2017-01-06T09:40:22Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T09:42:27Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-06T09:43:03Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T09:52:12Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-06T09:58:44Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-06T10:07:17Z cesdo quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-06T10:07:46Z joast joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:10:58Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T10:12:37Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:13:35Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:25:55Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:26:24Z nightfly joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:30:37Z drot quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-06T10:32:30Z eSVG quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T10:33:20Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:33:38Z drot joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:33:44Z chream quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-06T10:34:13Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-06T10:37:27Z vap1 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:38:17Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:38:25Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T10:39:27Z yoonkn quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T10:41:53Z vap1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T10:41:58Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T10:42:13Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:42:28Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T10:43:38Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:46:16Z drot quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-06T10:46:21Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:47:46Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:47:49Z drot joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:50:05Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:53:08Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:53:17Z john-mcaleely_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T10:54:04Z john-mcaleely_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T10:56:07Z mhasan quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-06T10:57:48Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-06T10:58:25Z mvilleneuve quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-06T11:00:02Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-06T11:11:01Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T11:11:02Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-06T11:11:37Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T11:12:22Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-06T11:12:40Z prole quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T11:12:55Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-06T11:31:47Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-06T11:35:14Z wz1000 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T11:35:39Z rogersm joined #lisp
2017-01-06T11:36:52Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T11:39:44Z redeemed joined #lisp
2017-01-06T11:46:26Z e joined #lisp
2017-01-06T11:47:02Z loke quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T11:51:34Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T11:52:13Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T11:57:51Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-06T11:58:25Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-06T11:58:25Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-06T11:58:42Z satran_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:00:40Z zeissoctopus joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:03:12Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:07:48Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T12:09:14Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-06T12:11:01Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T12:12:14Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:12:26Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:13:14Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:19:02Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:24:21Z Tex_Nick joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:24:44Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T12:26:57Z zeissoctopus quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-06T12:29:53Z satran joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:31:14Z satran_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T12:32:16Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T12:32:20Z slavka joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:33:12Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:33:27Z slavka quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T12:34:21Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:35:00Z slavka joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:39:27Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T12:43:09Z plertrood joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:43:49Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T12:45:56Z slavka quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.3 - http://znc.in)
2017-01-06T12:48:50Z himmAllRight17 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:52:48Z ryan__ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:54:40Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-06T12:54:42Z Posterdati: froggey: what about mezzano?
2017-01-06T12:55:12Z himmAllRight17 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T12:59:02Z slavka joined #lisp
2017-01-06T12:59:38Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-06T13:00:36Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:01:48Z himmAllRight17 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:02:41Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T13:03:45Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:04:12Z ryan__ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T13:13:42Z satran quit (Quit: satran)
2017-01-06T13:15:17Z MrLawrence quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T13:17:21Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:19:44Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-06T13:21:58Z satran joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:26:25Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-06T13:28:11Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:28:45Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:29:44Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:31:07Z Denommus joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:31:12Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-06T13:33:17Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:36:41Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-06T13:37:53Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:38:49Z Oladon1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T13:40:03Z Oladon joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:44:13Z atgreen quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-06T13:47:59Z ikki joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:48:26Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:52:16Z emerson quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-06T13:52:37Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:52:53Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-06T13:52:56Z papachan quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-06T13:56:40Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T13:58:02Z joeygibson joined #lisp
2017-01-06T14:02:41Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T14:03:16Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T14:07:46Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T14:08:02Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-06T14:12:07Z schjetne quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T14:12:48Z Tex_Nick quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T14:13:47Z axion: Anyone mind helping with some boolean logic I can't seem to get right?
2017-01-06T14:15:57Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-06T14:18:05Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-06T14:18:06Z beach: Sure.
2017-01-06T14:18:40Z axion: I am feeling really stupid and deleted all my attempts of failure. I made a paste of what I am trying to do: http://paste.lisp.org/display/335878
2017-01-06T14:20:15Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T14:21:51Z beach: (subseq ... 2 5)?
2017-01-06T14:22:05Z beach: Should that be 3 and 6
2017-01-06T14:22:26Z axion checks
2017-01-06T14:22:41Z beach: Or are you counting the first character as 1?
2017-01-06T14:23:04Z axion: yes, I am, sorry.
2017-01-06T14:23:32Z beach: That sounds confusing, especially since Common Lisp starts counting at 0.
2017-01-06T14:23:49Z axion: I know, I am following a specification. Sorry for the confusion
2017-01-06T14:24:17Z beach: OK, I think I understand it.  What is it that you need help with?
2017-01-06T14:25:03Z axion: I would like to come up with one form that short-circuits with the result as early as possible, while not erroring for subseq indices
2017-01-06T14:25:42Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-06T14:26:14Z axion: I think perhaps this is incredibly easy and I just need sleep. Hence the second pair of eyes. If not, don't worry about it :)
2017-01-06T14:27:21Z beach: Isn't it just (or <1> (and (= (length ... 12)) (or <2> <3> <4>)))?
2017-01-06T14:27:54Z beach: By the way, if efficiency is somewhat important, don't take the SUBSEQ.
2017-01-06T14:28:12Z axion: Maybe. I'll see.
2017-01-06T14:28:14Z axion: Oh yeah?
2017-01-06T14:28:27Z beach: Yes.  You will allocate a new array then.
2017-01-06T14:28:37Z axion: Efficiency isn't that important, but what do you suggest?
2017-01-06T14:29:00Z beach: Since the number of characters you test is fixed, just test each one.
2017-01-06T14:29:36Z beach: Define local functions in-range-1 and in-range-2.
2017-01-06T14:29:44Z dmiles quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T14:30:10Z axion: Ok, moment
2017-01-06T14:30:26Z beach: 1 becomes (and (not (in-range-1 (char 0))) (not (in-range-1 (char 1))))
2017-01-06T14:30:40Z beach: Sorry, 2 becomes that.
2017-01-06T14:31:38Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-06T14:32:24Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T14:32:43Z beach: You can use LOOP too.
2017-01-06T14:32:56Z axion: So this is not exactly correct
2017-01-06T14:33:27Z beach: Tell me.
2017-01-06T14:33:47Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T14:34:00Z axion: Oh sec
2017-01-06T14:34:52Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T14:34:59Z _papachan is now known as papachan
2017-01-06T14:35:03Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-06T14:35:42Z axion: This does seem to work actually. Had a wrong char code in my test
2017-01-06T14:35:49Z axion: At first glance anyway
2017-01-06T14:36:41Z axion: Ok, well I appreciate your help. This makes sense looking at it. I am going to now take your improvement suggestion
2017-01-06T14:37:05Z beach: So we think it works?
2017-01-06T14:37:18Z axion: I am pretty sure. I haven't wrote every test case but seems to
2017-01-06T14:37:34Z beach: OK.  Glad I could help.  Get some sleep! :)
2017-01-06T14:37:39Z axion: Thanks :)
2017-01-06T14:40:03Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T14:41:00Z devhydraz is now known as amused
2017-01-06T14:41:43Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-06T14:44:26Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T14:52:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-06T14:52:27Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-06T14:52:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-06T14:55:19Z attila_lendvai quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-06T14:55:19Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T14:55:19Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-06T14:55:19Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T14:55:26Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T15:01:31Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T15:01:55Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:03:21Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:05:24Z drmeister: Why does the last test fail?
2017-01-06T15:05:26Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Zr3g3q8C/
2017-01-06T15:06:26Z drmeister: Is a simple vector filled with 0.1 not equalp to a simple vector specialized on double and filled with 0.1?
2017-01-06T15:06:38Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T15:06:50Z drmeister: Ah - I have to fill the simple vector with 0.1D0
2017-01-06T15:06:56Z drmeister: Got it - sorry for the noise.
2017-01-06T15:08:36Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:08:41Z malice: Hi all!
2017-01-06T15:10:09Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-06T15:11:29Z malice: I've got a question about designing a class in CL. If you provide an accessor, does it work conceptually as a getter/setter?
2017-01-06T15:11:57Z malice: e.g. I create a class "queue". I don't want user to care how is it implemented, just to use the public interface(methods). Should I add :accessor, or not?
2017-01-06T15:12:09Z Xach: malice: here is what i do
2017-01-06T15:12:34Z Xach: malice: i start by writing the generic functions that define how i want the user to interact. then i define the class. if it is a natural fit, i make the reader/writer/accessor options add methods to the generic functions.
2017-01-06T15:13:07Z Xach: malice: otherwise, when i implement the methods for the generic function protocol, i have it use the reader/writer/accessor from the defclass to do the work, but i do not export the reader/writer/accessors.
2017-01-06T15:13:11Z Zhivago: Accessors are generally an anti-pattern in OO. But you have the choice of if you want the name of the accessor to be exported or not.
2017-01-06T15:13:51Z malice: One of the things I don't understand when I see Java code is that you have a private variable, and then "getVal", "setVal" all over the place. Why make it private then?
2017-01-06T15:14:39Z malice: Xach ah yeah, packages. I make too much code for myself and too little for others to remember about exporting from packages. This makes sense to have accessors, but not export them.
2017-01-06T15:15:56Z bias joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:15:57Z malice: Xach: however, could you please reword the phrase "i make the reader/writer/accessor options add methods to the generic functions." ? Sorry for my bad english, but I don't think I understand it. Did you mean that you just define :accessor(or somethign else) option
2017-01-06T15:16:05Z sjl: malice: the idea is that if you can swap out the underlying data representation without breaking existing code
2017-01-06T15:16:06Z malice: and it created generic function automatically?
2017-01-06T15:16:23Z Xach: malice: no
2017-01-06T15:16:36Z sjl: e.g. you have Player.x and player.getX and player.setX, but now you want to store the player's location in an [x,y] vector
2017-01-06T15:16:49Z Xach: malice: I mean that say your queue might have a name, for display purposes.
2017-01-06T15:17:01Z sjl: if you're using getters and setters, you just make them poke at the vector and the code using it doesn't have to care
2017-01-06T15:17:32Z vkashyap quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T15:17:35Z Xach: malice: the generic function is (defgeneric name (object) ...)
2017-01-06T15:17:36Z Xach: malice: the queue definition is (defclass queue () ((name :reader name ...))) - it adds a method to the generic function. but you start with the generic function.
2017-01-06T15:17:57Z bias2 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:18:11Z malice: Oh, okay.
2017-01-06T15:18:17Z Xach: malice: and if it makes more sense to compute the name from some other source, that is a detail that doesn't matter to the user of the generic function. it just changes the definition of the queue object, and the (defmethod name ((object queue)) ...)
2017-01-06T15:18:38Z bias2 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T15:19:07Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:19:16Z pjb: malice: private variables is to avoid (setf (slot-value object 'name) "Random Name")
2017-01-06T15:19:20Z malice: sjl: I get the idea. I include getters/setters for this very reason. However, I also often see some very simple code that has getters/setters where things won't really change
2017-01-06T15:19:32Z pjb: malice: in CL this can only be avoided, if you use gensyms for the slot names.
2017-01-06T15:19:46Z pjb: (and even, you can still recover the slot names with the MOP).
2017-01-06T15:19:54Z malice: sjl: or changing the internal implementation would make no sense anyway since object is "low-level", e.g. typed node in C
2017-01-06T15:21:04Z sjl: it's possible to go overboard, but I generally try to err on the side of future-proofing things
2017-01-06T15:21:12Z bias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T15:21:22Z malice: pjb: yes, I'm aware. I thought that there was an idea that in CL, slot-value is low-level hackish way to get thing you want and it's not guarantteed to work across versions
2017-01-06T15:21:35Z sjl: especially in CL, I find (slot-value foo 'x) ugly
2017-01-06T15:21:45Z malice: and that any variable not defining some accessors is intended by creators not to be messed directly with, hence "private"
2017-01-06T15:21:55Z Xach: slot-value is fine to implement the details of a generic function protocol.
2017-01-06T15:22:06Z Xach: It is not particularly pretty, but it is not unreliable
2017-01-06T15:22:36Z sjl: when in doubt, read the docs to know what the maintainer considers the public API
2017-01-06T15:22:43Z sjl: except this is Lisp, so no one writes docs, so /shrug
2017-01-06T15:24:00Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:24:16Z malice: Anyway, thanks for help guys!
2017-01-06T15:24:30Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-06T15:24:48Z mada quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-06T15:25:15Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:25:31Z warweasle joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:27:53Z sellout- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T15:28:20Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:28:31Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:28:46Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:28:59Z bias joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:29:18Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:30:54Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-06T15:31:57Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T15:32:32Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T15:32:53Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:34:22Z bias quit (Quit: Hermes - Material IRC Client - https://numixproject.org/)
2017-01-06T15:34:28Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:36:47Z ecraven: is there any lisp that - upon redefinition of a macro - recompiles everything that uses that macro, to use the new definition?
2017-01-06T15:36:54Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:37:10Z Zhivago: Probably.
2017-01-06T15:38:07Z pjb: ecraven: not that I know.  But you could probably do that yourself, by shadowing and redefining defmacro, defun, defmethod, defgeneric, and a few other macros where code can be included.
2017-01-06T15:38:10Z Zhivago: I think that clisp might effectively do that for some value of recompiles.
2017-01-06T15:38:42Z ecraven: does the hyperspec say whether this would be conforming behaviour?
2017-01-06T15:38:54Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:39:26Z pjb: Yes, it would be.  The thing is that the minimal compilation (macroexpansion) can occur at run-time, in particular with interpreters.
2017-01-06T15:39:56Z Zhivago: Which is clisp's approach, iirc.
2017-01-06T15:40:12Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T15:41:29Z Xach: ecraven: I'm not sure, but I do know some people work in interpreted mode precisely to avoid surprises with macroexpansion, and then compile when things are more settled.
2017-01-06T15:41:40Z FareTower quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T15:41:59Z ecraven: thanks for all the answers!
2017-01-06T15:42:37Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-06T15:42:38Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:42:49Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:42:56Z Zhivago: It may help you to avoid non-idempotent side-effecting macros. :)
2017-01-06T15:43:21Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:51:21Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T15:51:54Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T15:53:25Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-06T15:54:35Z malice` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-06T15:56:43Z satran quit (Quit: satran)
2017-01-06T15:57:39Z glamas joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:00:20Z glamas quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T16:01:44Z FareTower quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T16:02:10Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-06T16:04:45Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:08:25Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:09:03Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-06T16:10:55Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:11:52Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T16:13:26Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:14:12Z warweasle is now known as warweasle_afk
2017-01-06T16:18:12Z ikki quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T16:18:19Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:20:34Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T16:24:13Z krasnal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T16:24:46Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:26:23Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T16:27:38Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:31:20Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:32:46Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:33:18Z warweasle_afk is now known as warweasle
2017-01-06T16:34:14Z glamas joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:35:53Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:38:29Z glamas quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T16:39:10Z redeemed quit (Quit: q)
2017-01-06T16:39:17Z loke quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T16:40:22Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:40:39Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T16:40:41Z glamas joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:42:41Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T16:43:04Z glamas quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T16:43:27Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:44:55Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:50:12Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T16:52:11Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:52:51Z himmAllRight17 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T16:52:59Z himmAllRight17 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T16:54:18Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-06T16:55:08Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-06T16:59:16Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-06T16:59:57Z zeissoctopus joined #lisp
2017-01-06T17:00:28Z john-mcaleely quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me)
2017-01-06T17:01:57Z stardiviner quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-06T17:12:02Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T17:13:27Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T17:15:48Z bias joined #lisp
2017-01-06T17:17:25Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-06T17:17:51Z defaultxr quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T17:19:06Z o1e9 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-06T17:19:25Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-06T17:19:49Z zacts joined #lisp
2017-01-06T17:21:26Z joeygibson quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-06T17:23:39Z loke quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T17:24:04Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T17:25:52Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-06T17:26:06Z Denommus joined #lisp
2017-01-06T17:30:46Z sjohnson joined #lisp
2017-01-06T17:35:05Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-06T17:35:53Z zeissoctopus quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-06T17:36:52Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T17:38:26Z plertrood quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T17:41:01Z bias quit (Quit: Hermes - Material IRC Client - https://numixproject.org/)
2017-01-06T17:42:10Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-06T17:44:15Z groovy2shoes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-06T17:45:46Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-06T17:49:40Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-06T17:50:08Z w37 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T17:51:12Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T17:52:06Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-06T17:53:57Z roscoe_tw quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-06T17:54:28Z joeygibson joined #lisp
2017-01-06T17:55:10Z strelox left #lisp
2017-01-06T17:58:58Z newcup joined #lisp
2017-01-06T17:59:01Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T18:00:52Z roscoe_tw joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:04:23Z nrp3c quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-06T18:05:59Z bias joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:06:55Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-06T18:08:07Z travv0 quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-06T18:09:36Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T18:11:34Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T18:13:30Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:16:05Z genericus joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:16:29Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:18:14Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T18:18:29Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:19:48Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:23:29Z jasom: pjb: I thought the result of compile-file had to be with the macros already expanded in order to be conforming?
2017-01-06T18:24:38Z jasom: pjb: furthermore the macroexpansion  happens when the DEFUN is evaluated, not when the function itself is called, right?
2017-01-06T18:25:24Z devon` joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:31:16Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T18:33:44Z pjb: jasom: indeed, compile or compile-file will have expanded the macros.
2017-01-06T18:33:51Z pjb: jasom: but not all code is compiled.
2017-01-06T18:34:10Z devon`: Can (format t # ... '(foo bar baz)) print ... foo on the first line and indent following lines to vertically align foo, bar and baz?
2017-01-06T18:34:31Z devon`: If not, perhaps a macro expanding into something awkward like (let* ((head (format nil ...)) (indent (format nil "~%~v@T" (length head)))) (princ head) (loop for c across (format nil # '(foo bar baz)) do (princ (if (char= #\NewLine c) indent c))) (terpri))
2017-01-06T18:36:24Z ikki joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:36:48Z ikki quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T18:42:35Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T18:43:12Z vap1 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:43:17Z vaporatorius quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T18:43:27Z vaporatorius__ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:43:30Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:43:38Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:43:52Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:44:10Z pjb: I'd say that it should be possible with ~< but I have no idea how.
2017-01-06T18:44:31Z devon`: I never got the hang of ~<
2017-01-06T18:46:03Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:47:19Z Karl_Dscc quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-06T18:47:31Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:48:23Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T18:48:37Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:49:13Z jasom thought that  ~:i~<~{~A~%~}~> should do it, but it doesn't appear to
2017-01-06T18:50:13Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:50:27Z rotty joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:50:32Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T18:54:19Z scymtym: jasom: i think, a logical block is needed, i.e. (format nil "   ~@<~{~A~@:_~}~>" '(1 2 3))
2017-01-06T18:54:47Z vap1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T18:55:47Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T18:56:20Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-06T18:56:33Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:00:27Z devon` is now known as Devon`
2017-01-06T19:00:29Z jasom: hmm I can't seem to get ~i to have any effect ever; slightly annoying
2017-01-06T19:01:20Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:01:55Z pjb: scymtym: this doesn't work: (format t "   ~@<~{~A~@:_~^~%~}~>" '(1 2 3))
2017-01-06T19:01:58Z jasom: bah, of course ~% isn't a pplrint newline
2017-01-06T19:02:07Z jasom: need ~@:_ instead of ~%
2017-01-06T19:02:18Z pjb: This prints nothing (in ccl); I get "   123".
2017-01-06T19:02:31Z jasom: (format t "XXXXX ~@<~{~A~:@_~}~:>" '(foo bar baz))
2017-01-06T19:02:45Z pjb: (format nil "XXXXX ~@<~{~A~:@_~}~:>" '(foo bar baz)) #| --> "XXXXX foobarbaz" |#
2017-01-06T19:03:09Z jasom: pjb: that's a bug
2017-01-06T19:03:19Z jasom: pjb: does the equivalent (pprint-newline :mandatory) work?
2017-01-06T19:03:22Z pjb: ABCL, Clisp and ccl don't print the newlines.
2017-01-06T19:03:28Z pjb: Only ecl and sbcl do it.
2017-01-06T19:03:55Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:04:41Z scymtym: pjb: check *PRINT-PRETTY*?
2017-01-06T19:05:00Z pjb: nil.
2017-01-06T19:05:16Z jasom: right
2017-01-06T19:05:23Z pjb: with t, no change in ccl.
2017-01-06T19:05:24Z jasom: works with *print-pretty* bound to t on ccl
2017-01-06T19:06:02Z jasom: pjb: works for me: http://paste.lisp.org/+776H
2017-01-06T19:06:06Z pjb: with t, abcl, and ccl work well for (format nil "XXXXX ~@<~{~A~:@_~}~:>" '(foo bar baz)).
2017-01-06T19:06:25Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T19:06:28Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:06:30Z pjb: Yes, I tried scymtym expression, this one didn't work.
2017-01-06T19:06:54Z pjb: so (setf *print-pretty* t).
2017-01-06T19:06:59Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:07:15Z scymtym: pjb: in you original response, (format t "   ~@<~{~A~@:_~^~%~}~>" '(1 2 3)), you used ~% and also ~> instead of ~:>
2017-01-06T19:07:25Z raynold quit (Changing host)
2017-01-06T19:07:26Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:07:30Z scymtym: still no luck after correcting those?
2017-01-06T19:07:43Z pjb: On the other hand, (format nil "~10i~@<~{~A~:@_~}~:>" '(foo bar baz)) doesn't indent anything. indeed, ~i doesn't work.
2017-01-06T19:08:18Z pjb: scymtym: yes, but (format nil "   ~@<~{~A~@:_~}~>" '(1 2 3))  #| --> "   123" |#  doesn't work either.
2017-01-06T19:08:27Z scymtym: right, i don't know how ~i works, that's why i produced the initial indent differently
2017-01-06T19:08:53Z pjb: scymtym: you need ~:> for the newlines. (format nil "   ~@<~{~A~@:_~}~:>" '(1 2 3))  works.
2017-01-06T19:09:42Z scymtym: pjb: oh, i see now, i pasted the wrong line, sorry
2017-01-06T19:09:56Z scymtym: yes, ~:> is needed (logical block instead of justification)
2017-01-06T19:10:17Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:10:29Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-06T19:11:12Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T19:12:30Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:13:35Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:14:32Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T19:17:31Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:18:42Z ghsk joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:18:47Z bias quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T19:21:38Z beach quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T19:21:38Z akkad quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T19:22:06Z fitzsim` joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:22:15Z pleroma joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:22:27Z neuro_sys quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T19:22:27Z fitzsim quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-06T19:23:55Z akkad joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:27:55Z Devon`: (dotimes (i (length ccl::*format-char-table*)) (let ((f (elt ccl::*format-char-table* i))) (when f (format t "~&~:C	~A~&" (code-char i) (function-name f))))) ; reveals I know nothing of the $*/<?IW_ directives, back to the docs...
2017-01-06T19:28:18Z ghostlight quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T19:28:35Z Devon`: CCL at least supports $%&(*/<?ABCDEFGIOPRSTWX[^_{|~ and NewLine.
2017-01-06T19:29:13Z jasom: clhs ~$
2017-01-06T19:29:14Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_ccd.htm
2017-01-06T19:30:26Z ghostlight joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:30:36Z jasom: Devon`: that was the only one of "$*/<?IW_" I remember, but I read format docs in my spare time
2017-01-06T19:32:40Z jasom: s/remember/couldn't remember
2017-01-06T19:32:54Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T19:34:06Z SpikeMaster joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:34:30Z LooneyTunes quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-06T19:35:12Z SpikeMaster quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T19:35:21Z mshh joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:35:48Z mshh quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T19:36:39Z scottj joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:39:44Z joeygibson quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T19:40:10Z joeygibson joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:40:16Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-06T19:40:20Z nrp3c quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-06T19:41:20Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T19:41:23Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:43:36Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:44:49Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:46:34Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T19:46:40Z ghsk quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-06T19:47:00Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-06T19:50:13Z kammd quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-06T19:55:26Z joeygibson quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-06T19:55:52Z Devon`: (let ((*print-pretty* t)) (format t "nope ~-1/pprint-tabular/" '(1 2 3))) ;; nope 1 2 3
2017-01-06T19:57:51Z joeygibson joined #lisp
2017-01-06T19:58:09Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:02:12Z o1e9 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:02:52Z quadresce quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T20:03:35Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:04:37Z robotoad quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T20:05:36Z sword quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T20:10:15Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:11:15Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-06T20:13:22Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:13:38Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:15:07Z paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:15:13Z warweasle quit (Quit: later)
2017-01-06T20:17:17Z fiveop joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:17:47Z dmiles joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:19:09Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T20:20:15Z daniel-s quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T20:27:00Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:29:00Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-06T20:30:59Z eli joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:30:59Z eli quit (Changing host)
2017-01-06T20:30:59Z eli joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:32:59Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:35:06Z holly2 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T20:40:26Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:40:44Z holly2 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:41:07Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-06T20:41:42Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:46:08Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T20:48:36Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-06T20:49:30Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:51:55Z Denommus quit (Quit: going home)
2017-01-06T20:52:44Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:53:48Z cesdo joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:54:54Z fiveop quit
2017-01-06T20:57:24Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T20:57:53Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:58:30Z manuel___ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T20:58:34Z manuel_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T20:58:34Z manuel___ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-06T21:00:23Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-06T21:08:55Z raynold: ahh it's a wonderful day
2017-01-06T21:11:05Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T21:13:11Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T21:17:00Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-06T21:18:38Z kokonaisluku joined #lisp
2017-01-06T21:19:44Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-06T21:37:03Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-06T21:41:08Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T21:42:16Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T21:43:36Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-06T21:49:16Z sellout-1 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T21:49:16Z sellout- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T21:50:03Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T21:50:41Z deank quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T21:50:53Z heurist joined #lisp
2017-01-06T21:56:54Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-06T21:58:26Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:00:35Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:02:59Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T22:05:26Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:07:06Z flip214: OSICAT:stat returns always 6 in the STAT-DEV field... for /dev/null, for /dev/sda, etc.
2017-01-06T22:07:10Z flip214: I guess that's broken
2017-01-06T22:09:57Z flip214: or is it RDEV?
2017-01-06T22:10:30Z flip214: ah, the RDEV field it is. DEV is for the device the inode is on.
2017-01-06T22:12:12Z Reinisch quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T22:12:44Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:13:16Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-06T22:15:08Z defaultxr quit (Quit: brb)
2017-01-06T22:17:14Z stevegt_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T22:18:30Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:19:57Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T22:21:00Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:21:22Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-06T22:22:18Z Xach: Who is mr static-vectors?
2017-01-06T22:22:24Z Xach: (or ms static-vectors)
2017-01-06T22:22:41Z Xach: ahh
2017-01-06T22:23:04Z Xach: fe[nl]ix: are you going to make a new static-vectors release?
2017-01-06T22:23:23Z hhdave quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T22:27:40Z fe[nl]ix: when do you need it ?
2017-01-06T22:28:03Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T22:28:53Z fe[nl]ix: give me 10 mnutes
2017-01-06T22:28:56Z Xach: fe[nl]ix: ok
2017-01-06T22:29:12Z Xach: I am a little surprised how much static-vectors affects when it stops building.
2017-01-06T22:30:39Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:30:52Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T22:31:02Z fe[nl]ix: it's very useful to interface with C libraries
2017-01-06T22:31:26Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-06T22:33:58Z Xach: broken opticl has a wide effect too
2017-01-06T22:34:03Z Xach: today is not a good day for building
2017-01-06T22:34:08Z fe[nl]ix: done
2017-01-06T22:36:30Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:39:39Z Reinisch left #lisp
2017-01-06T22:39:46Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:43:09Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:43:32Z ryanwatkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T22:44:18Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:44:32Z ryanwatkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T22:46:10Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:46:29Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-06T22:46:47Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:47:17Z quadresce quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T22:47:32Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:47:51Z |3b|` is now known as |3b|
2017-01-06T22:48:05Z quadresce quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T22:48:22Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:48:53Z quadresce quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T22:49:13Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:49:41Z quadresce quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T22:49:58Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:50:29Z quadresce quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-06T22:50:51Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-06T22:53:03Z stevegt_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:53:17Z Sigyn quit (Quit: Can we drop the ‘artificial intelligence’? It’s a bit like me calling you a meat-based processing system.)
2017-01-06T22:54:08Z Sigyn joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:57:52Z rotty quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T22:58:21Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-06T22:59:17Z k4rtik quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-06T22:59:21Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:02:52Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T23:04:50Z Devon` quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T23:08:00Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T23:08:31Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T23:08:57Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:10:20Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T23:12:05Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-06T23:15:02Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-06T23:17:03Z fare__ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:20:11Z FareTower quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-06T23:20:50Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T23:20:57Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:21:04Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:21:11Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:22:57Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:24:04Z MrBusiness quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-06T23:25:26Z zooey quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-06T23:26:32Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-06T23:26:51Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:27:07Z MrBusiness joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:28:02Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:28:16Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:28:59Z nrp3c quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-06T23:30:48Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:38:28Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T23:39:58Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:40:04Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T23:41:31Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:42:11Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-06T23:50:24Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-06T23:50:41Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-06T23:50:54Z dlowe: now that html-entities has been booted from quicklisp, is there something else that people are using?
2017-01-06T23:52:03Z jasom: dlowe: I usually use cl-who which has a function that I think does the equivalent (I haven't used html-entities)
2017-01-06T23:52:13Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:52:20Z Xach: dlowe: you can adopt it!
2017-01-06T23:52:47Z dlowe: Xach: There's an idea.
2017-01-06T23:53:24Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-06T23:53:33Z dlowe: There's probably some html entity management in one of these better maintained libraries, though.
2017-01-06T23:54:21Z jasom: (cl-who:escape-string ">?\"&") => "&gt;?&quot;&amp;"
2017-01-06T23:55:02Z dlowe: jasom: and decoding?
2017-01-06T23:56:09Z jasom: dlowe: ah, no it doesn't do that.
2017-01-06T23:56:40Z dlowe: maybe there isn't :/
2017-01-06T23:58:23Z jasom: dlowe: plump:decode-entities
2017-01-06T23:58:46Z jasom: dlowe: I bet most html parsing libraries have similar
2017-01-06T23:59:46Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-07T00:00:16Z dlowe: okay, plump will do both encoding and decoding.
2017-01-07T00:00:21Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-07T00:00:21Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-07T00:00:31Z dlowe: I knew it would decode. Thanks, jasom
2017-01-07T00:02:14Z dlowe: it was already using plump too, so that's a dependency removed. Very satisfying.
2017-01-07T00:03:41Z fare__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-07T00:03:45Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-07T00:04:47Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T00:04:48Z kokonaisluku quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T00:09:34Z o1e9 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-07T00:13:33Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T00:16:48Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-07T00:19:24Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T00:19:25Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-07T00:19:56Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-07T00:22:22Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T00:28:16Z scottj quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-07T00:29:46Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-07T00:30:02Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-07T00:31:01Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-07T00:39:57Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T00:42:13Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-07T00:42:18Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-07T00:48:35Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-07T00:48:52Z stevegt_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-07T00:50:02Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-07T00:51:26Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-07T01:02:57Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-07T01:03:03Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-07T01:03:42Z pjb: dlowe: I use com.informatimago, but it's been eliminated from quicklisp too.
2017-01-07T01:07:44Z gazini joined #lisp
2017-01-07T01:24:48Z daniel-s quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-07T01:24:54Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T01:27:21Z lisp120 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T01:30:02Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-07T01:30:57Z EvW1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T01:32:12Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-07T01:32:33Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2017-01-07T01:33:35Z daniel-s quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T01:40:11Z rotty joined #lisp
2017-01-07T01:42:53Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T01:46:16Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-07T01:47:37Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T01:48:28Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T01:50:58Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-07T01:58:30Z omarkov left #lisp
2017-01-07T01:59:36Z yrk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T01:59:43Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-07T02:07:12Z renard_ joined #lisp
2017-01-07T02:10:33Z SmiteClub joined #lisp
2017-01-07T02:12:03Z genericus left #lisp
2017-01-07T02:13:29Z lisp120 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-07T02:28:59Z xuxuru quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-07T02:36:27Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-07T02:51:22Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-07T02:52:51Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-07T02:55:12Z akkad: so if you store an object reference to a hash, then pull that value out, do accessors still work?
2017-01-07T03:00:38Z Bike: uh, sure? what is a "reference"?
2017-01-07T03:01:55Z akkad: symbolic reference I'd assume. e.g. (push array (make-instance 'myclass :foo "bar"))
2017-01-07T03:02:43Z Bike: that's not how push works? what about that is symbolic?
2017-01-07T03:03:36Z akkad: yeah args backwards
2017-01-07T03:04:03Z akkad: Bike: so how would you term that?
2017-01-07T03:04:17Z Bike: it's just... an instance. an object. you put it in an array.
2017-01-07T03:04:30Z Bike: and you take it out of the array and it continues to be an object.
2017-01-07T03:04:44Z akkad: guess the printed object format is confusing me with the actual object being stored.
2017-01-07T03:05:12Z akkad: was not sure if it was a pointer sort of reference, that could be followed, or if the actual object was stored, and merely printed in a condensed form
2017-01-07T03:05:29Z Bike: lisp is pretty simple. everything is a value. there aren't pointers or implicit copying or references
2017-01-07T03:05:55Z akkad: k
2017-01-07T03:07:05Z Bike: (there actually is implicit copying for fixnums and characters, but if you don't use eq it never comes up)
2017-01-07T03:08:33Z himmAllRight17 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-07T03:08:51Z devon joined #lisp
2017-01-07T03:09:30Z akkad: #<DSTADDR  M@11118631(39:43432)> reminded me of a pointer/address/reference.
2017-01-07T03:10:19Z Bike: yeah, that is probably the memory address. but that only comes up in printing (it's the :identity thing in print-unreadable-object)
2017-01-07T03:10:26Z Bike: so, you know, visual, debugging, stuff like that.
2017-01-07T03:10:56Z akkad: rigfht
2017-01-07T03:11:27Z alchemis7 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T03:11:29Z Bike: (if you DO want to compare things by memory address, use eq)
2017-01-07T03:11:30Z akkad: just was not sure when iterating through objects to find all that match this exact object. same printed format, if one had any eql operator.
2017-01-07T03:11:35Z akkad: k
2017-01-07T03:12:27Z akkad: two object lists, one small, unique, and another at 410 million. so finding all those objects with the same memory address from the unique list, in the bigger list would be expensive
2017-01-07T03:12:43Z alchemis7 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T03:13:44Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-07T03:16:14Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T03:17:27Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-07T03:20:52Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T03:21:10Z akkad: bike: thanks for the clarification
2017-01-07T03:21:23Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-07T03:21:27Z Bike: np
2017-01-07T03:21:48Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-07T03:22:26Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-07T03:22:26Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-07T03:22:57Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-07T03:36:32Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-07T03:43:45Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-07T03:48:47Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-07T03:49:16Z wirnik555 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T03:52:34Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-07T03:59:46Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-07T03:59:52Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T04:03:49Z shrdlu68 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T04:04:32Z shrdlu68: Does drakma url-encode a GET request or will be a case of double encoding if I do it manually?
2017-01-07T04:06:15Z stevegt_ joined #lisp
2017-01-07T04:07:26Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T04:18:12Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-07T04:18:27Z p_l: shrdlu68: it will encode parts of the request pushed through :parameters option, but it seems that for its uri argument you need to provide url encoded string
2017-01-07T04:19:44Z p_l: also remember to provide apropriate external format
2017-01-07T04:22:12Z eelster joined #lisp
2017-01-07T04:23:39Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-07T04:26:24Z beach joined #lisp
2017-01-07T04:26:35Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-07T04:27:11Z p_l: beach: Good morning! :)
2017-01-07T04:28:34Z eelster: Where are you all that it's morning?
2017-01-07T04:28:45Z Bike: orbit
2017-01-07T04:28:59Z eelster: But, good morning to all that it is morning for
2017-01-07T04:33:53Z shrdlu68: p_l: How do I do the usual percent-encoding on get params? Is there no built-in way?
2017-01-07T04:35:04Z shrdlu68: The flex-streams options seem to be for "character encoding", i.e utf8, utf32, etc.
2017-01-07T04:35:53Z shrdlu68: It encodes POST params fine.
2017-01-07T04:36:45Z p_l: (drakma:http-request "https://echo.getpostman.com/get" :method :get :external-format-out :utf8 :external-format-in :utf8 :parameters '(("秘密" . "です") ("°°żźżćż" . "zażółć gęślą jaźń")))
2017-01-07T04:36:46Z p_l: example
2017-01-07T04:37:09Z eelster: p_l: What flavor of lisp are you using?
2017-01-07T04:37:39Z p_l: eelster: that's an example from Steel Bank Common Lisp with Drakma library (http client)
2017-01-07T04:38:03Z eelster: p_l: Ah. SBCL is great. The Drakma was what was throwing me.
2017-01-07T04:38:45Z travv0` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T04:38:52Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-07T04:39:08Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-07T04:39:28Z shrdlu68: p_l: Ah, jeez. I could swear drakma once chastised me for using :parameters together with :method :get.
2017-01-07T04:40:34Z shrdlu68: I must have done something wrong, but I got it even wronger: I thought :parameters ought not to be used with :method :GET, because it complained something about not knowing what to do with the parameters.
2017-01-07T04:41:23Z shrdlu68: So since then I've been using my own function to create a GET request given the base url, and parameters.
2017-01-07T04:41:32Z shrdlu68: So ends this sad tale.
2017-01-07T04:42:19Z shrdlu68: A tragic waste of verterbrate life.
2017-01-07T04:42:45Z eelster: In the word of modest mouse, "someday you will die somehow and someone's gonna steal your carbon"
2017-01-07T04:43:50Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-07T04:46:59Z eelster quit (Quit: Sleep)
2017-01-07T04:47:52Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T04:48:01Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-07T04:55:12Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-07T05:18:26Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-07T05:18:27Z sellout-1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-07T05:19:15Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-07T05:20:04Z william_ joined #lisp
2017-01-07T05:20:15Z william_ is now known as williamyaoh
2017-01-07T05:22:56Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T05:28:23Z moei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-07T05:29:37Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-07T05:33:42Z shrdlu68 left #lisp
2017-01-07T05:34:33Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-07T05:40:58Z loke quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-07T05:44:33Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T05:45:15Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T05:50:49Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-07T06:00:05Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T06:06:27Z ahungry joined #lisp
2017-01-07T06:09:05Z ahungry: what would be the best way to provide output from sb-cover:report as a CLI based output?  The READ'able list from sb-cover:save-coverage is not really documented at http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#sb_002dcover
2017-01-07T06:10:19Z wirnik555 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T06:18:32Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-07T06:18:50Z pjstirling quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-07T06:18:51Z sword joined #lisp
2017-01-07T06:19:25Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-07T06:21:13Z PuercoPop: ahungry: cl-coveralls scrapes the html output but that seems backwards. Have checked how to coverage info is stored in sb-c::*code-coverage-info*? you may be able to adapt it from there
2017-01-07T06:24:46Z devon quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-07T06:28:52Z ahungry: I thikn I can use this as a good base: https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/622c9daf9bb41ef9ad4b8a063c62c4baf59a1c1a/contrib/sb-cover/cover.lisp
2017-01-07T06:29:09Z ahungry: I'm going to change the output of HTML style to be JSON and then I'll submit it to SBCL or something
2017-01-07T06:29:19Z ahungry: then everyone can more easily re-use the json format for CI type things or other presentations
2017-01-07T06:47:31Z Oladon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-07T06:48:30Z Oladon joined #lisp
2017-01-07T06:50:10Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T06:53:57Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-07T06:56:23Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2017-01-07T06:57:31Z deank quit
2017-01-07T07:06:48Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-07T07:19:59Z SmiteClub quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-07T07:20:56Z travv0`` joined #lisp
2017-01-07T07:25:19Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T07:30:16Z travv0`` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T07:31:00Z Aiwass joined #lisp
2017-01-07T07:31:00Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T07:31:00Z cpc26 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-07T07:31:00Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T07:34:04Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-07T07:36:03Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T07:39:44Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-07T07:40:35Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-07T07:41:35Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-07T07:53:58Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-07T07:58:50Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-07T08:07:12Z d4ryus3 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T08:09:53Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-07T08:10:31Z d4ryus2 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-07T08:14:06Z pyx joined #lisp
2017-01-07T08:14:16Z pyx quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-07T08:19:54Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T08:21:58Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-07T08:26:21Z rogersm quit (Quit: rogersm)
2017-01-07T08:27:32Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-07T08:28:18Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-07T08:35:46Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-07T08:37:11Z ahungry: ok cool, this works https://camo.githubusercontent.com/0f3df8625021db572a7927d9c7dc1b7b84d04253/687474703a2f2f6168756e6772792e636f6d2f696d672f746573742d73686f742e706e67
2017-01-07T08:37:17Z ahungry: now to add color to it and do the json serializing thing
2017-01-07T08:37:51Z ahungry: full project link if any interested: https://github.com/ahungry/ahungry-fleece
2017-01-07T08:38:04Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-07T08:42:55Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2017-01-07T08:50:31Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-07T08:50:46Z axion: Is there SLIME functionality to lookup documentation of a toplevel form when point is anywhere inside? if point is inside a defun, looks up the 'function documentation for the symbol naming that top-level form?
2017-01-07T08:51:02Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-07T08:55:58Z phadthai: ahungry: link it on clicky :)
2017-01-07T08:59:08Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-07T09:01:55Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2017-01-07T09:03:01Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-07T09:04:54Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-07T09:06:00Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-07T09:09:44Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-07T09:09:46Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-07T09:20:19Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-07T09:20:45Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-07T09:24:41Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-07T09:29:11Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-07T09:40:40Z cesdo quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-07T09:49:49Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-07T10:13:04Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T10:13:05Z Aiwass left #lisp
2017-01-07T10:17:38Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-07T10:18:00Z nowhere_man quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-07T10:18:14Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-07T10:21:02Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-07T10:27:24Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T10:49:39Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-07T10:55:57Z rszeno joined #lisp
2017-01-07T10:56:53Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-07T11:04:06Z wz1000 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-07T11:05:22Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T11:05:30Z wz1000 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-07T11:07:59Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-07T11:10:36Z joast quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-07T11:10:54Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-07T11:18:46Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-07T11:32:53Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-07T11:33:48Z impaktor joined #lisp
2017-01-07T11:34:50Z kodnin quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-07T11:36:54Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-07T11:43:50Z kodnin quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-07T11:50:44Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-07T11:53:57Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-07T11:59:38Z kammd joined #lisp
2017-01-07T12:01:50Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-07T12:11:29Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-07T12:20:18Z flip214: UIOP says :OUTPUT (:STRING :STRIPPED T) is allowed, and that :ERROR-OUTPUT is the same - but trying that gives me an error.
2017-01-07T12:21:57Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-07T12:23:48Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-07T12:24:07Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T12:24:34Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-07T12:25:06Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-07T12:30:33Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-07T12:37:55Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-07T12:39:12Z Posterdati: flip214: hi
2017-01-07T12:39:36Z Posterdati: froggey: the mezzano image started with a sys.int window, how can I close it?
2017-01-07T12:41:02Z Tex_Nick joined #lisp
2017-01-07T12:41:03Z aaronjensen quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-07T12:44:03Z Mezzanal joined #lisp
2017-01-07T12:45:11Z Mezzanal quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-07T12:46:01Z Mezzanal joined #lisp
2017-01-07T12:46:04Z Mezzanal: hi
2017-01-07T12:46:14Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T12:46:23Z Mezzanal: I'm on Mezzano! Nice!
2017-01-07T12:46:43Z ebrasca: Mezzanal: hi
2017-01-07T12:47:49Z Mezzanal: hi ebrasca are you from nebraska?
2017-01-07T12:47:55Z ebrasca: Mezzanal: It work on my hardware (bare metal).
2017-01-07T12:48:02Z Mezzanal: wiw
2017-01-07T12:48:04Z Mezzanal: wow
2017-01-07T12:48:11Z Mezzanal: which hardware?
2017-01-07T12:48:17Z ebrasca: Mezzanal: I am from Poland
2017-01-07T12:48:54Z Mezzanal: ok
2017-01-07T12:49:06Z ebrasca: Mezzanal: intel I7-4790S
2017-01-07T12:49:10Z Mezzanal: on which hardware is it running?
2017-01-07T12:49:13Z Mezzanal: ah ok
2017-01-07T12:49:31Z Mezzanal: what is it? An industrial PC?
2017-01-07T12:50:08Z ebrasca: Mezzanal: Whait I go to up all spec info.
2017-01-07T12:50:29Z Mezzanal: oh thanks
2017-01-07T12:50:39Z Mezzanal: is it a commercial mobo?
2017-01-07T12:50:40Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T12:52:54Z ebrasca: Mezzanal: http://ix.io/1PoR
2017-01-07T12:56:31Z Mezzanal: thanks
2017-01-07T12:56:42Z Mezzanal: is that an output from Mezzano?
2017-01-07T12:56:57Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-07T12:57:57Z ebrasca: Mezzanal: It is from GNU/Linux lshw
2017-01-07T12:59:19Z Mezzanal: are you running it with qemu/kvm?
2017-01-07T12:59:37Z ebrasca: Mezzanal: now it is off.
2017-01-07T12:59:56Z Mezzanal: then it is not baremetal
2017-01-07T13:00:22Z ebrasca: Mezzanal: It don't have email video ...
2017-01-07T13:00:57Z ebrasca: Mezzanal: And it is baremetal.
2017-01-07T13:02:00Z p_l: ehhh, everything is layers upon layers of VMs, though
2017-01-07T13:02:19Z Posterdati: p_l: it is not baremetal
2017-01-07T13:02:32Z ebrasca: p_l: it can run over baremetal
2017-01-07T13:02:41Z Posterdati: p_l: baremetal is when you install "natively" on a machine
2017-01-07T13:03:23Z p_l: Believe me, I know. I also know all the VM layers you go through to see Grub run on "
2017-01-07T13:03:28Z p_l: "baremetal"
2017-01-07T13:03:34Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-07T13:04:03Z p_l: You can safely ignore the grumpy old admin ;)
2017-01-07T13:04:45Z ebrasca: p_l: but it boot in mezzano with syslinux.
2017-01-07T13:05:51Z hhdave_ joined #lisp
2017-01-07T13:06:21Z p_l: IIRC, Mezzano can't boot natively under UEFI, so on pretty much all hardware from last decade it has to go through ROM-resident emulator that tries to play the role of 1981 computer booting MS basic from ROM or cassette tape
2017-01-07T13:07:13Z p_l: because 16bit calls tend to not work well with 64bit environments, among other things
2017-01-07T13:08:13Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T13:08:13Z hhdave_ is now known as hhdave
2017-01-07T13:08:35Z shrdlu68 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T13:09:45Z shrdlu68: I'm getting a static-vectors build error trying to quickload dexador. About a month ago I was encountering the same errors trying to quickload fast-io.
2017-01-07T13:10:11Z Posterdati: shrdlu68: welcome to static vectors
2017-01-07T13:10:56Z shrdlu68: It's the usual state of things, then?
2017-01-07T13:11:04Z Posterdati: then...
2017-01-07T13:12:37Z shrdlu68: https://common-lisp.net/project/cl-test-grid/library/static-vectors.html
2017-01-07T13:17:39Z shrdlu68: It works on CCL...
2017-01-07T13:22:57Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-07T13:23:06Z slavka quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-07T13:23:35Z froggey: Posterdati: once the desktop appears (icons and background picture) you can run (snapshot-and-exit) in that sys.int> window to finish the build
2017-01-07T13:24:18Z Posterdati: froggey: I cannot write anything in it!
2017-01-07T13:24:27Z Mezzanal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T13:24:45Z slavka joined #lisp
2017-01-07T13:24:47Z froggey: does the mouse work?
2017-01-07T13:24:57Z froggey: try clicking on it to give it focus
2017-01-07T13:25:25Z Posterdati: ok
2017-01-07T13:25:29Z Posterdati: done!
2017-01-07T13:25:35Z Posterdati: it is working
2017-01-07T13:26:50Z froggey: p_l: I added support for booting from UEFI about a month ago
2017-01-07T13:27:20Z baphomet` joined #lisp
2017-01-07T13:27:21Z p_l: froggey: Nice!
2017-01-07T13:27:35Z p_l: froggey: How much ACPI is implemented, btw?
2017-01-07T13:28:09Z axion: Now we just need to port emacs :)
2017-01-07T13:28:25Z Posterdati: axion: isn't it there already?
2017-01-07T13:28:38Z froggey: not nearly enough. tables for detecting CPUs and legacy hardware (the PS/2 controller specifically) are parsed, but nothing beyond that
2017-01-07T13:28:40Z Posterdati: axion: edito icon I suppose
2017-01-07T13:28:47Z axion: That's not Emacs
2017-01-07T13:29:09Z Posterdati: axion: Meta+X worked! :)
2017-01-07T13:29:20Z p_l: froggey: So I guess no AML etc for now :)
2017-01-07T13:29:26Z axion: It follows Emacs conventions, but far from Emacs :)
2017-01-07T13:30:14Z froggey: p_l: nope
2017-01-07T13:32:47Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-07T13:32:55Z shrdlu68: Wow ccl builds rather fast.
2017-01-07T13:35:34Z kammd left #lisp
2017-01-07T13:40:14Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-07T13:43:34Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-07T13:46:31Z _paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T13:47:47Z Xach: froggey: for a moment i thought you meant a sony playstation controller, and got excited about a lisp-machine game console...
2017-01-07T13:49:18Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-07T13:49:47Z shrdlu68: Is it possible set a new inferior-lisp-program without editing ~/.emacs
2017-01-07T13:50:54Z H4ns: M-: (setq inferior-lisp-program "sbcl")
2017-01-07T13:51:59Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-07T13:52:17Z shrdlu68: thanks
2017-01-07T13:55:37Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-07T13:56:00Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-07T13:56:52Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-07T14:03:42Z hhdave quit (Quit: hhdave)
2017-01-07T14:08:05Z macdavid314 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T14:09:25Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T14:09:25Z macdavid314 is now known as macdavid313
2017-01-07T14:09:32Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T14:09:52Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-07T14:15:56Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-07T14:16:02Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-07T14:16:47Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-07T14:22:35Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-07T14:22:54Z shrdlu68 left #lisp
2017-01-07T14:28:09Z baphomet` left #lisp
2017-01-07T14:37:34Z aaronjensen joined #lisp
2017-01-07T14:38:03Z axion: Can anyone help me make this a little better? Explanation of what I'm trying to do is in the comments. This is extremely bad I think, so I'm looking for improvements: http://paste.lisp.org/display/335961
2017-01-07T14:40:29Z loke: axion: You might want to take a look at the function REMOVE-DUPLICATES
2017-01-07T14:40:39Z loke: with a custom :TEST function
2017-01-07T14:40:44Z loke: I mean custom :KEY function
2017-01-07T14:40:56Z axion: But remove duplicates will remove all duplicates
2017-01-07T14:41:02Z axion: I want to keep the first one seen
2017-01-07T14:41:10Z axion: and the result is only those removed
2017-01-07T14:41:14Z axion: not the leftovers
2017-01-07T14:44:48Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-07T14:48:35Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-07T14:49:14Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-07T14:49:19Z _death: what's the point of using mapcar there.. also the idiom is push/nreverse, not push/reverse :)
2017-01-07T14:50:30Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-07T14:50:45Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-07T14:55:06Z macdavid313 quit (Quit: macdavid313)
2017-01-07T14:55:52Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T14:56:41Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-07T14:59:03Z shymega quit (Quit: So long, and thanks for all the talking doors.)
2017-01-07T15:00:08Z shymega joined #lisp
2017-01-07T15:00:34Z axion: What should I be using instead of mapcar to traverse the list?
2017-01-07T15:02:45Z phadthai: I have not seen the code, but perhaps mapc, if you don't need the results (or loop, or do, etc)
2017-01-07T15:03:20Z axion: I do need the results, which is why I'm confused why I shouldn't be using mapcar
2017-01-07T15:03:24Z phadthai: err dolist I meant
2017-01-07T15:03:31Z phadthai: ok
2017-01-07T15:03:47Z axion: actually I am not looking at the correct revision. Ignore me
2017-01-07T15:03:58Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-07T15:08:49Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-07T15:09:43Z phadthai: ok I have looked at your paste and indeed, the mapcar results were not used, another list was returned instead
2017-01-07T15:10:09Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-07T15:10:30Z axion: Yes, sorry about that. I agree.
2017-01-07T15:11:13Z phadthai: not a problem, at least your question was answered :)
2017-01-07T15:11:37Z axion: I annotated it with another, faster solution...still kind of questioning it though
2017-01-07T15:12:07Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-07T15:14:33Z _death: ugh.  the push/nreverse one looks better.. if the values are sorted of course you don't need a hash-table, just the last value processed
2017-01-07T15:16:02Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T15:16:02Z axion: they are not always sorted like the example
2017-01-07T15:16:10Z _death: also, interesting if it's actually faster, what with all those nconcs/appends
2017-01-07T15:16:15Z axion: I know
2017-01-07T15:16:21Z axion: I was surprised
2017-01-07T15:16:27Z joast joined #lisp
2017-01-07T15:19:20Z pjb: push nreverse will be faster if you're within cache. keeping a reference to the end and updating it there would be faster if your result list is bigger than cache.
2017-01-07T15:21:15Z axion: The push/nreverse one completes 1 million ops in about 0.8s. the annotation is about 0.65s
2017-01-07T15:22:42Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-07T15:23:12Z axion: the push/nreverse one is doing 4x the consing!
2017-01-07T15:23:55Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-07T15:26:39Z stardiviner quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-07T15:27:07Z azzamsa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T15:28:14Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-07T15:31:03Z mhd joined #lisp
2017-01-07T15:31:15Z unbalanced joined #lisp
2017-01-07T15:31:46Z loke: axion: consing is pretty fast though.
2017-01-07T15:31:47Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-07T15:32:21Z axion: I can speed it up a LOT if i sort first and don't use a hash
2017-01-07T15:32:30Z axion: I guess that's good enough
2017-01-07T15:32:35Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-07T15:33:26Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-07T15:33:41Z __vrsmn joined #lisp
2017-01-07T15:36:03Z _paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-07T15:37:02Z mhd quit (Ping timeout: 182 seconds)
2017-01-07T15:38:29Z mhd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-07T15:39:09Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-07T15:49:16Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-07T15:49:44Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-07T15:51:46Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-07T15:56:09Z Guest26 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T16:00:01Z MrBusiness quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-07T16:06:52Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2017-01-07T16:14:57Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T16:15:32Z axion: final version fwiw http://paste.lisp.org/display/335961#2
2017-01-07T16:16:40Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-07T16:18:48Z pjb: axion: no good. Works only on list of reals.
2017-01-07T16:19:44Z pjb: axion: you should pass in parameter a lessp function instead of hard-wiring #'<.
2017-01-07T16:19:48Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-07T16:20:15Z axion: oh good call
2017-01-07T16:20:25Z scymtym: axion: in CL functions, test-fn and key-fn are typically just test and key. also, what happens if they are not supplied?
2017-01-07T16:20:49Z axion: well this is for a very specific use case, and will have them hard-coded anyway
2017-01-07T16:21:44Z scymtym: furthermore, assuming you still want to make this faster and don't have an FTYPE declaration, you can probably make it a bit faster by doing (let ((test-fn (alexandria:ensure-function test-fn)) (key-fn (alexandria:ensure-function key-fn))) (loop …))
2017-01-07T16:23:15Z loke 's eyes really twitch when I see the keyword prefixes for loop keywords.
2017-01-07T16:23:34Z axion: again, this is for a list of objects having a specific slot with integer values
2017-01-07T16:24:01Z axion: loke: why is that?
2017-01-07T16:24:07Z pjb: loke: this colorize them in a nice color.
2017-01-07T16:24:12Z axion: ^
2017-01-07T16:24:14Z loke: axion: Well, because it's ugly and pointless :-)
2017-01-07T16:24:48Z loke: pjb: Good point. Someone (perhaps me) should update the lisp colourisation in Emacs so that LOOP keywords gets coloured nicely.
2017-01-07T16:25:18Z loke: I wonder if I can do it without implementing a full LOOP parser.
2017-01-07T16:25:20Z axion: I use keywords for EQL specialization a lot to for the same reason
2017-01-07T16:25:24Z axion: too*
2017-01-07T16:25:47Z unbalanced quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-07T16:31:15Z haom joined #lisp
2017-01-07T16:31:30Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T16:33:43Z xuxuru quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-07T16:34:53Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-07T16:35:38Z haom: hello, does somebody have a good example of how a string class can be implemented, so that it works with the sequence functions like subseq, concatenate?
2017-01-07T16:36:32Z haom: i want to define a string with character attributes
2017-01-07T16:36:42Z loke: haom: There is no standard way to do that.
2017-01-07T16:36:58Z yrk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T16:37:08Z loke: SBCL (and others) have extension API's that allows you to construct custom sequence functions.
2017-01-07T16:37:26Z loke: However, even if you do, those sequences will not technically be strings. They'll be sequences.
2017-01-07T16:37:46Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-07T16:38:22Z dmiles quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-07T16:38:55Z haom: the best i came up with is a class where the string and the attributes are stored in separate slots, but then none of the string functions can be used, because they ignore the attribute slots
2017-01-07T16:39:36Z dmiles joined #lisp
2017-01-07T16:40:50Z haom: loke: can you point me to the sbcl sequence extensions? how are the extensions called?
2017-01-07T16:41:24Z loke: haom: It's in SB-SEQ or SB-SEQUENCE I think.
2017-01-07T16:41:56Z loke: It's not well documented, but if you create a class that extends from SEQUENCE the error messages when you try to use it will lead you in the right direction.
2017-01-07T16:42:11Z loke: haom: Do note that you still can't use it as a normal string.
2017-01-07T16:42:51Z haom: thats ok, a class that is recognized as a sequence, so i dont have to access it slots is sufficient, thank you.
2017-01-07T16:44:18Z kodnin quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-07T16:44:39Z loke: haom: You can probably use that to create something that looks like and behaves like a string in most circumstances, but it won't be accepted as argument to a function that specialises on STRING for example (because it isn't a STRING). You probably need a function such as AS-STRING for those purposes.
2017-01-07T16:44:56Z scymtym: loke: it is documented here: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Extensible-Sequences . whether it is well documented or not is not for me to judge, of course
2017-01-07T16:45:11Z loke: I wish there was a way to extend COERCE to deal with custom types, but there is not (I checked the SBCL implementation of COERCE and all supported conversions are hard-coded)
2017-01-07T16:45:29Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T16:46:03Z Tex_Nick quit (Quit: In Linux, We Trust)
2017-01-07T16:46:52Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T16:48:16Z scymtym: loke: COERCE works with user-defined sequences: (defclass my-seq (sequence) ()) (defmethod sb-sequence:make-sequence-like ((s my-seq) (length integer) &key initial-element initial-contents) (make-instance 'my-seq)) (coerce '(1 2 3) 'my-seq)
2017-01-07T16:48:54Z loke: scymtym: Ah yes... Sorry. When I looked at it, I wanted to have a custom coerce from a custom numeric type, not a custom sequence. THAT is what isn't working.
2017-01-07T16:49:27Z scymtym: sure, i'm all for making COERCE a generic function
2017-01-07T16:50:22Z bgg_ joined #lisp
2017-01-07T16:51:24Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T16:54:05Z haom left #lisp
2017-01-07T17:00:12Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:03:05Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T17:13:38Z malice: Do we have any ordered sets library in CL?
2017-01-07T17:14:08Z malice: I want to iterate over an ordered set, but I might add items to it during iteration which I want to iterate over during that iteration
2017-01-07T17:20:50Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:22:08Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:26:56Z beach: malice: If you are going to iterate over it, you might as well use a list.
2017-01-07T17:28:21Z MrBusiness joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:28:38Z malice: beach: yeah, I guess that's what I'll be using
2017-01-07T17:28:50Z malice: One more question: I want to use quicklisp to load my local project
2017-01-07T17:29:07Z malice: I have it in directory ~/some/dir/projectdir
2017-01-07T17:29:20Z malice: I added soft link pointing to ~/some/dir to my ~/quicklisp/local-projects
2017-01-07T17:29:26Z malice: or whatever that directory's called
2017-01-07T17:29:26Z beach: You need to be careful not to use iteration constructs that have undefined behavior when the list is modified.
2017-01-07T17:29:44Z beach: You can't use (loop for x in list ...) for instance.
2017-01-07T17:29:47Z Xach: malice: that isn't a question!
2017-01-07T17:29:58Z malice: but when I want to load it can't see it. The directory projectdir is cased(ProjectDir), I did the same with .asd file
2017-01-07T17:30:04Z malice: What can I do to load it?
2017-01-07T17:30:05Z beach: malice: You need to do something like (loop for x = list then (cdr x) ...
2017-01-07T17:30:16Z malice: Xach: I wanted to describe my problem to ask a question :)
2017-01-07T17:30:29Z malice: beach: that's a useful piece of advice. Thank you!
2017-01-07T17:31:11Z malice: Am I doing something wrong with the asd? Added wrong directory or something?
2017-01-07T17:31:13Z Xach: malice: you can't use mixed case in quicklisp systems.
2017-01-07T17:31:29Z malice: that's unfortunate
2017-01-07T17:31:55Z malice: does it search by the name of folder?
2017-01-07T17:31:59Z malice: or just checks all the folders?
2017-01-07T17:32:06Z malice: could I get away by making soft link names projectdir?
2017-01-07T17:32:16Z malice: s/names/named
2017-01-07T17:32:27Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T17:33:05Z himmAllRight17 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:33:36Z toogley quit (Quit: toogley)
2017-01-07T17:34:30Z shrdlu68 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:34:36Z Xach: malice: the file named <something>.asd is the important thing. the <something> is the system name.
2017-01-07T17:34:45Z Xach: malice: the folder is of no consequence.
2017-01-07T17:35:05Z Xach: It is important that the (defsystem <something> ...) and the <something>.asd somethings match.
2017-01-07T17:36:08Z malice: Okay, so now I have ProjectDir/projectdir.asd
2017-01-07T17:36:14Z malice: Should that work?
2017-01-07T17:36:17Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:36:20Z Xach: That will be loadable with quicklisp.
2017-01-07T17:36:33Z malice: Will the quicklisp see it off the bat? Should I update its database somehow?
2017-01-07T17:36:40Z malice: Because it's not working atm
2017-01-07T17:37:05Z Xach: malice: (ql:register-local-projects) might be necessary.
2017-01-07T17:37:28Z william_ joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:37:38Z william_ is now known as williamyaoh
2017-01-07T17:38:02Z Xach: malice: it can often detect things automatically, but not always. it depends on the depth of the directory structure.
2017-01-07T17:38:21Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:38:24Z malice: Okay. The command worked. Thank you for your help, Xach!
2017-01-07T17:38:29Z Xach: no problemo
2017-01-07T17:38:55Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-07T17:38:56Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:39:27Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-07T17:43:54Z shrdlu68: A server I'm trying to POST to is replying with a 403, advising me to use a different browser. I'm using drakma. I tried to use dexador instead and got the same error. It works in thw browser. Any pointers?
2017-01-07T17:44:16Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:44:22Z Xach: shrdlu68: you could try using a different user-agent.
2017-01-07T17:44:26Z Xach: shrdlu68: like one from a browser.
2017-01-07T17:44:50Z Xach: shrdlu68: it's hard to say what criteria the server is using to reject your request without knowing more about the server.
2017-01-07T17:44:55Z shrdlu68: Originally I was using :safari, and then switched to :firefox. No luck.
2017-01-07T17:44:58Z macdavid313 quit (Quit: macdavid313)
2017-01-07T17:45:10Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T17:45:14Z Xach: shrdlu68: You could use exactly what your browser sends.
2017-01-07T17:45:25Z shrdlu68: The server says it's "gunicorn/19.0.0"
2017-01-07T17:45:33Z shrdlu68: Xach: I'll try that.
2017-01-07T17:45:56Z Xach: My browser sends "Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_11_6) AppleWebKit/602.3.12 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/10.0.2 Safari/602.3.12"
2017-01-07T17:46:39Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:47:12Z Xach: drakma uses "Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/418.8 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/419.3" for :safari
2017-01-07T17:48:21Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-07T17:48:27Z shrdlu68: I should have mentioned that it works for GET requests.
2017-01-07T17:48:35Z toogley joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:48:44Z shrdlu68: But let me try changing the user-agent.
2017-01-07T17:49:17Z Xach: shrdlu68: is it for a service that would want to restrict automation?
2017-01-07T17:49:29Z Xach: seems odd to reject non-browsers, but i can imagine various reasons
2017-01-07T17:50:46Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T17:52:14Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:52:30Z Xach: shrdlu68: the suspense is killing me!!
2017-01-07T17:52:41Z shrdlu68: Xach: There would be no way to distinguish between browsers and non-browsers, would there?
2017-01-07T17:53:13Z shrdlu68: But yes, that would be a reason.
2017-01-07T17:53:19Z Xach: shrdlu68: I'm not sure. user-agent is a flimsy way, but maybe there are other browser fingerprints that are subtler and harder to mimic.
2017-01-07T17:54:12Z shrdlu68: I think I'll do a network capture and use that, then.
2017-01-07T17:54:32Z Xach: shrdlu68: so the user-agent didn't help?
2017-01-07T17:54:47Z shrdlu68: Nope.
2017-01-07T17:54:53Z Xach: dang
2017-01-07T17:55:34Z shrdlu68: It's something about drakma, I've tried changing the character encoding, that didn't work either.
2017-01-07T17:56:11Z shrdlu68: Disabled chunking, reenabled it.
2017-01-07T17:56:25Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:56:56Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T17:57:03Z Xach: a network capture sounds sensible, then.
2017-01-07T17:57:55Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-07T17:58:25Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T17:59:18Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:03:51Z cpc26 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T18:04:15Z kodnin quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-07T18:04:50Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:06:33Z stevegt_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T18:06:54Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:07:17Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-07T18:09:16Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:12:17Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:12:17Z cpc26 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-07T18:12:17Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:12:24Z Posterdati: (send 'froggey :ok)
2017-01-07T18:12:48Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-07T18:15:00Z malice: Can I specialize methods on list of certain length and types of items? e.g. method to be invoked on list of length 2 where the first item is string, and second is character
2017-01-07T18:16:28Z Bike: nope
2017-01-07T18:17:02Z malice: That's too bad!
2017-01-07T18:17:24Z Posterdati: froggey: is it possible to shutdown mezzano from the repl?
2017-01-07T18:19:29Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T18:21:16Z snits quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-07T18:21:19Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-07T18:22:08Z Fare: malice: Xof had sbcl extensions that allowed you to
2017-01-07T18:22:39Z Fare: Have any of you seen Masamune?
2017-01-07T18:22:53Z malice: Xof ?
2017-01-07T18:23:00Z malice: Fare what is Masamune?
2017-01-07T18:23:47Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-07T18:24:11Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:24:34Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:24:48Z Fare: One guy's brilliant/crazy SBCL/McCLIM Linux distribution
2017-01-07T18:25:28Z snits joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:26:36Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:27:14Z oleo: Fare ?
2017-01-07T18:27:16Z oleo: where ?
2017-01-07T18:28:31Z snits quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-07T18:28:36Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-07T18:28:48Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:29:23Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T18:30:45Z williamyaoh: oleo: I assume Fare's talking about this: https://github.com/gabriel-laddel/masamune
2017-01-07T18:31:12Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-07T18:32:09Z Fare: williamyaoh, bingo
2017-01-07T18:32:33Z malice: Is WM written im McCLIM?
2017-01-07T18:32:56Z Fare: malice: Xof had a paper at ELS a few years back on extending the CLOS dispatch mechanism with user-programmable subclassing
2017-01-07T18:33:21Z malice: Gonna look around then
2017-01-07T18:33:23Z malice: thanks
2017-01-07T18:33:44Z _paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:33:58Z snits joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:34:27Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T18:36:16Z __vrsmn quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-07T18:37:09Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:40:50Z williamyaoh: Blargh, foiled by the Lisp reader.
2017-01-07T18:43:02Z __vrsmn joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:45:10Z wheelsucker quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-07T18:45:18Z bgg_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-07T18:45:51Z _paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-07T18:48:50Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T18:49:34Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:50:01Z sellout- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-07T18:50:23Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:54:48Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2017-01-07T18:57:31Z mada: 4
2017-01-07T18:58:05Z kodnin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T18:58:31Z himmAllRight17 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T18:58:50Z oleo: hmm, thank you
2017-01-07T18:59:07Z oleo: i already have mcclim functional to some extent on my linux system.....
2017-01-07T18:59:17Z oleo: i don't need to tie in emacs even.....
2017-01-07T19:01:23Z NitroWheels joined #lisp
2017-01-07T19:01:27Z _paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T19:01:58Z froggey: Posterdati: no, you have to close the VM if you want to shut it down
2017-01-07T19:03:09Z __vrsmn quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T19:04:16Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-07T19:07:26Z _paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-07T19:08:25Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-07T19:18:49Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-07T19:23:56Z mikaelj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T19:26:51Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-07T19:29:39Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-07T19:30:54Z Posterdati: froggey: ok, thanks
2017-01-07T19:31:13Z Posterdati: froggey: is it possible to install over a non x86 hardware?
2017-01-07T19:34:20Z froggey: no
2017-01-07T19:34:59Z Posterdati: :(
2017-01-07T19:35:10Z Posterdati: I hope that x86 would be ok too
2017-01-07T19:36:30Z toogley1 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T19:37:08Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-07T19:37:20Z froggey: only x86-64 systems are supported
2017-01-07T19:38:41Z toogley1 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-07T19:39:29Z toogley quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-07T19:39:47Z toogley joined #lisp
2017-01-07T19:48:00Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-07T19:48:23Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-07T19:51:45Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-07T19:54:25Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-07T19:56:31Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-07T20:01:18Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-07T20:03:21Z toogley quit (Quit: toogley)
2017-01-07T20:03:37Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-07T20:04:12Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-07T20:04:36Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-07T20:07:27Z xrash joined #lisp
2017-01-07T20:16:07Z mhd joined #lisp
2017-01-07T20:16:31Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-07T20:16:59Z fiveop joined #lisp
2017-01-07T20:20:00Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T20:22:48Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-07T20:23:35Z stevegt_ joined #lisp
2017-01-07T20:28:18Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T20:33:19Z fiveop quit
2017-01-07T20:33:30Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-07T20:36:14Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-07T20:39:15Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T20:43:19Z johan` joined #lisp
2017-01-07T20:43:24Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T20:48:17Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-07T20:49:47Z johan` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-07T20:51:20Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T20:58:04Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:01:35Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T21:04:04Z phoe: How can I check the class precedence list for conditions?
2017-01-07T21:07:04Z Bike: you mean, get the cpl of a condition class?
2017-01-07T21:07:27Z phoe: Basically, I have an instance of SB-INT:CLOSED-STREAM-ERROR. I want to see whether it has some superclass that I can catch inside HANDLER-CASE.
2017-01-07T21:07:30Z phoe: Bike: yes.
2017-01-07T21:07:46Z Bike: same way as any other class
2017-01-07T21:07:51Z phoe: Bike: not really.
2017-01-07T21:07:52Z Bike: sb-mop:class-precedence-list for you
2017-01-07T21:08:13Z phoe: ...oooooh,
2017-01-07T21:08:19Z phoe: I need to FIND-CLASS and not feed it a symbol.
2017-01-07T21:08:19Z Bike: (sb-mop:c-p-l (find-class 'sb-int:closed-stream-error)) => wa la
2017-01-07T21:08:27Z phoe: Got it! Thanks.
2017-01-07T21:08:53Z Bike: yeah the mop functions don't take class designators so much
2017-01-07T21:17:09Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:18:04Z bexx joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:18:20Z bexx: hi
2017-01-07T21:18:28Z bexx: i have a problem
2017-01-07T21:20:20Z bexx: i'm learning common lisp and using slime with emacs
2017-01-07T21:20:20Z bexx: when i shrink the *slime-description* buffer he continually ignores and become large again when i pass him other function
2017-01-07T21:20:20Z bexx: sorry for my english
2017-01-07T21:20:21Z bexx: do you how to solve that?
2017-01-07T21:20:28Z bexx` joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:20:37Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:21:01Z bexx`: any:
2017-01-07T21:21:02Z bexx`: ?
2017-01-07T21:22:21Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:22:24Z lisp111 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:23:06Z bexx quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T21:23:24Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-07T21:24:10Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-07T21:24:26Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:26:22Z with-unique-name joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:28:31Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T21:29:13Z bexx` left #lisp
2017-01-07T21:31:13Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:33:42Z rtmanpages joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:39:52Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-07T21:40:24Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:40:54Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:41:28Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T21:42:19Z varjag: is there a reasonably portable package to probe system capabilities?
2017-01-07T21:42:28Z varjag: number of cores, ram size tc
2017-01-07T21:42:30Z varjag: etc
2017-01-07T21:42:34Z fe[nl]ix: no
2017-01-07T21:43:10Z pjb: You can call sysctl on bsd like, and probe /proc and /sys on linux.
2017-01-07T21:43:35Z pjb: That should give you rather consistent APIs.
2017-01-07T21:43:43Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:45:05Z varjag: that's not reasonably portable
2017-01-07T21:45:15Z varjag: not sure /proc on linux is consistent 2.4 through 4.
2017-01-07T21:46:05Z varjag: but fair enough it's not critical.. just didn't want to reinvent the wheel
2017-01-07T21:47:12Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:47:13Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:48:03Z boxxlab quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-07T21:52:36Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-07T21:56:05Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T21:56:07Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T21:56:28Z Guest26 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-07T21:58:55Z svetlyak40wt quit
2017-01-07T21:58:57Z jmarcian` joined #lisp
2017-01-07T22:00:25Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T22:00:30Z jmarciano quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T22:02:15Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-07T22:07:03Z jleija quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-07T22:07:21Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-07T22:20:57Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-07T22:24:14Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T22:24:36Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-07T22:26:29Z edza101 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T22:29:14Z scottj joined #lisp
2017-01-07T22:29:39Z snits quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-07T22:29:56Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-07T22:30:57Z with-unique-name quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-07T22:31:39Z toogley joined #lisp
2017-01-07T22:31:47Z prole quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T22:32:13Z snits joined #lisp
2017-01-07T22:33:10Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T22:33:49Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T22:38:06Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T22:38:13Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-07T22:41:30Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T22:43:45Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-07T22:43:45Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2017-01-07T22:43:45Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-07T22:56:30Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T22:59:33Z xrash joined #lisp
2017-01-07T23:00:35Z jmarcian` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T23:04:38Z kodnin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-07T23:11:59Z edza101 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T23:12:14Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T23:12:34Z xrash joined #lisp
2017-01-07T23:13:35Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-07T23:19:52Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T23:23:48Z stevegt_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-07T23:24:55Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-07T23:25:07Z NitroWheels quit (Quit: Quitting: 6502 is calling me)
2017-01-07T23:28:38Z yeticry_ joined #lisp
2017-01-07T23:31:29Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-07T23:32:00Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-07T23:38:56Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-07T23:43:57Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-07T23:44:31Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T23:45:59Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-07T23:46:35Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T23:50:13Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-07T23:52:08Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-07T23:57:57Z stevegt_ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T00:01:48Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-08T00:01:53Z phoe: How does the Lisp reader read strings?
2017-01-08T00:02:07Z phoe: Let's assume I have a string "\"foo\"".
2017-01-08T00:02:27Z phoe: Will this always be a freshly created string when I read this with (read-from-string)?
2017-01-08T00:02:48Z phoe: Or is there a chance it will be coalesced by the compiler?
2017-01-08T00:02:54Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-08T00:03:47Z Bike: wow, i'm not sure.
2017-01-08T00:04:10Z Bike: i mean, i'd expect it to be fresh
2017-01-08T00:04:33Z paroneayea quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T00:05:22Z paroneayea joined #lisp
2017-01-08T00:06:01Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-08T00:06:49Z Bike: since otherwise it would be a displaced string or something and that would be silly
2017-01-08T00:10:05Z genericus joined #lisp
2017-01-08T00:14:21Z phoe: Does anyone have a corresponding CLHS chapter handy?
2017-01-08T00:14:56Z fitzsim` is now known as fitzsim
2017-01-08T00:15:13Z phoe: Basically, it depends on how the #\" reader macro is implemented.
2017-01-08T00:15:59Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-08T00:16:37Z phoe: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw70/CLHS/Body/02_de.htm
2017-01-08T00:16:46Z phoe: "are made into a simple-string"
2017-01-08T00:21:53Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-08T00:21:54Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T00:24:31Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T00:27:22Z Fare quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T00:27:34Z xrash joined #lisp
2017-01-08T00:27:58Z unbalanced joined #lisp
2017-01-08T00:27:59Z edgar-rft: phoe: I think that (let ((s "\"foo\"")) (eq (read-from-string s) (read-from-string s))) returns T if the second READ-FROM-STRING re-uses the object created by the first one, if that's what you're interested in.
2017-01-08T00:28:02Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T00:28:30Z toogley quit (Quit: toogley)
2017-01-08T00:28:32Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-08T00:28:34Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-08T00:28:45Z phoe: edgar-rft: NIL. Thank you.
2017-01-08T00:29:20Z toogley joined #lisp
2017-01-08T00:35:12Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-08T00:36:20Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T00:37:45Z sjl:  phoe: relevant bit of the Common Lisp Recipes book: https://i.imgur.com/hyoMV7L.png
2017-01-08T00:38:02Z jleija quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-08T00:38:16Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T00:40:04Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-08T00:44:15Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T00:51:37Z unbalanced quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T00:55:30Z jleija quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T00:56:56Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T00:56:57Z cpc26 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-08T00:56:57Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T00:57:35Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-08T01:00:00Z robotoad quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-08T01:02:37Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-08T01:06:38Z adlai: Fare: have you /used/ it?
2017-01-08T01:07:14Z adlai: masamune, that is.
2017-01-08T01:15:16Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T01:17:44Z lisp111 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-08T01:20:19Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T01:21:14Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-08T01:22:18Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-08T01:24:31Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T01:32:07Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-08T01:32:07Z phoe: Okay - let me try to get this right.
2017-01-08T01:32:31Z phoe: (defun fn () (signal 'something) (print "foo"))
2017-01-08T01:33:26Z phoe: The fact that I signal SOMETHING can mean various things. If I define a handler that's basically (lambda (condition) (print "bar")), what will get printed is, "bar" and then "foo". Am I right?
2017-01-08T01:35:13Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T01:37:27Z phoe: It seems that I am. HANDLER-CASE performs transfer of control where HANDLER-BIND does not.
2017-01-08T01:37:30Z Bike: yeah.
2017-01-08T01:37:44Z Bike: that is also correct
2017-01-08T01:37:48Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T01:38:00Z Bike: or rather, handler-bind doesn't transfer control unless the handler does
2017-01-08T01:38:14Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-08T01:39:26Z phoe: Ayup.
2017-01-08T01:39:31Z phoe: But, like, by default.
2017-01-08T01:39:48Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-08T01:40:34Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-08T01:41:06Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-08T01:44:11Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-08T01:45:34Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-08T01:55:12Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-08T01:56:00Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-08T02:04:12Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T02:08:39Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-08T02:11:22Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-08T02:19:19Z araujo quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2017-01-08T02:20:12Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-08T02:20:12Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2017-01-08T02:20:12Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-08T02:23:20Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T02:28:25Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-08T02:29:39Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-08T02:30:29Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T02:48:08Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T02:51:38Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T02:53:22Z araujo quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2017-01-08T02:53:59Z habs: Is common lisp's format string langage Turing complete (without tilde slash extensions which would be trivially TC)? Has anyone tried to prove one way or the other?
2017-01-08T02:54:37Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-08T02:55:34Z |3b|: probably not, if you mean a single call to format
2017-01-08T02:55:51Z Bike: it doesn't have a persistent state except the position in the string and the position in the arguments, both of which are finite
2017-01-08T02:56:28Z |3b|: well, if comparing it to an infinite turing machine it seems reasonable to remove those limitations
2017-01-08T02:58:08Z |3b| wonders about something like (loop for f = "?" then (format nil f)) or something though
2017-01-08T02:58:37Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T02:59:17Z |3b|: or maybe (loop with p = "?" for d = "?" then (format nil f d))
2017-01-08T02:59:27Z |3b|: (format nil p d) i mean
2017-01-08T03:00:50Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-08T03:01:06Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-08T03:01:40Z |3b|: probably even easier with multiple constant arguments in addition to the updating one, could use them for subroutines/program counter
2017-01-08T03:02:41Z habs: forgive my ignorance but which format directive can give you the position in the string?
2017-01-08T03:04:24Z Bike: within the format string? there isn't one.
2017-01-08T03:04:40Z rtmanpages quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T03:04:55Z |3b|: actually, i wonder if just lots of arguments would be enough, calling eachother recursively
2017-01-08T03:05:12Z |3b|: lack of variables is probably still a problem though
2017-01-08T03:06:19Z |3b| still suspects not
2017-01-08T03:10:28Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-08T03:11:10Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-08T03:16:36Z mada: what does it mean that functions and data are in separate namespaces?
2017-01-08T03:16:45Z habs: well, if we use the position in the arguments and consider that as a binary value, then we're getting something like a turing machine with 2 symbols
2017-01-08T03:16:47Z habs: where each bit in the position's binary representation is a variable that can be 0 or 1, and can be manipulated by format ~[~] (+1) or ~:* (-1)
2017-01-08T03:17:50Z Bike: but you can only add or subtract fixed amounts
2017-01-08T03:18:16Z Bike: mada: defining a function to take an argument called "list" is ok, since the variable "list" is unrelated to the function "list"
2017-01-08T03:19:44Z habs: Bike: can't you use looping ~{~} with those though if we can control the args passed? the question is can we 'read' the bits of the arg position with a format string and use that as a parameter for the loop, which may be possible
2017-01-08T03:20:11Z mada: Bike: I see, thanks
2017-01-08T03:20:13Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-08T03:20:33Z mada: is this why one needs to use # to refer to thing-the-function?
2017-01-08T03:20:42Z Bike: #' yes.
2017-01-08T03:21:52Z aenn joined #lisp
2017-01-08T03:22:39Z Bike: habs: you can't go backwards bitwise with ~{ looping, ie you can't ~^ out unless there are no arguments left.
2017-01-08T03:25:50Z pjb: You need to have a mutable memory to make a TC. Where's the mutable memory of format if you don't use ~/ ?
2017-01-08T03:26:21Z Fare: adlai: no, I don't intend to shell out the money and buy the only piece of supported hardware (thinkpad x220). I mean, it's probably nice in many ways, but I don't want to find myself in autistic software controlled by someone else
2017-01-08T03:26:47Z pjb: I wrote ~/ functions to generate indexed lists of items, because I couldn't find any other way to get the index (and increment/decrement such an index) with the other format specifiers.
2017-01-08T03:29:18Z adlai: Fare: aha, i must have too many preconceptions about software and hardware and the [in]significance of published sources
2017-01-08T03:29:53Z habs: pjb: we're trying to make our 'mutable memory' the position in the args, which is mutable, and if you want a tape then you can consider that as a binary string where each bit is a cell
2017-01-08T03:30:52Z Bike: you can't read it though.
2017-01-08T03:31:12Z pjb: And how do you index the bits?
2017-01-08T03:33:12Z pjb: So you need at least two big ints.
2017-01-08T03:35:08Z Fare: mix of genius and stupidity :-(
2017-01-08T03:35:49Z Fare: I just showed "Spirited Away" again to my 4.5 yo. I've said it before, but it's basically "Ode to Hufflepuff"
2017-01-08T03:36:09Z adlai: aren't two big ints just one big int if you squint at it right?
2017-01-08T03:36:23Z adlai: at the very least, clhs upgraded-complex-part-type
2017-01-08T03:37:21Z Bike: i don't want to be a hufflepuff if it means dealing with no face
2017-01-08T03:37:23Z pjb: well, yes.  But how do you switch the bit indicated by the pointer part in the data part, with format specifiers?
2017-01-08T03:37:32Z pjb: (and arguments).
2017-01-08T03:38:02Z pjb: Strangely enough, we still feel like it might be possible…
2017-01-08T03:38:55Z adlai refrains from opining about ~/ which lies outside the span of his cl experience
2017-01-08T03:39:35Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T03:40:26Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-08T03:40:29Z sellout- quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-08T03:40:51Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-08T03:42:07Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-08T03:54:21Z stevegt_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-08T04:09:03Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-08T04:11:28Z Fare: packing two ints in one reminds me of this formula... (defun f (n &optional (a (expt 10 n))) (mod (floor (expt a (1+ n)) (- (* a a) a 1)) a))
2017-01-08T04:12:46Z Fare: pjb: I've seen action on the clisp front... will there be a new release soon?
2017-01-08T04:15:46Z Karunamon quit (Quit: Later!)
2017-01-08T04:20:05Z stevegt_ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T04:21:02Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-08T04:21:57Z mada: does #\<character> work only with ascii? I just tried to run (char-equal #\ñ #\Ñ) and slimv kind of choked
2017-01-08T04:22:12Z stardiviner quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-08T04:22:36Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-08T04:23:23Z axion: No, sounds like a problem with your locale or editor
2017-01-08T04:24:56Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-08T04:25:19Z Karunamon joined #lisp
2017-01-08T04:25:31Z mada: hm yes, plain sbcl repl works
2017-01-08T04:26:15Z Karunamon is now known as Necoco
2017-01-08T04:27:03Z Necoco is now known as Karunamon
2017-01-08T04:27:28Z durson_ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T04:27:51Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-08T04:31:38Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T04:31:44Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-08T04:35:05Z kjak_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-08T04:35:11Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T04:35:52Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-08T04:38:27Z jleija quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T04:42:50Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T04:42:50Z cpc26 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-08T04:42:50Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T04:43:13Z axion: Morning beach
2017-01-08T04:45:40Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T04:48:44Z genericus left #lisp
2017-01-08T04:49:21Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-08T04:51:50Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-08T04:54:32Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-08T05:02:44Z dcluna quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-08T05:04:35Z dcluna joined #lisp
2017-01-08T05:10:01Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T05:10:11Z smokeink joined #lisp
2017-01-08T05:14:10Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T05:19:17Z cpc26 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-08T05:21:32Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-08T05:32:21Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-08T05:38:16Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-08T05:39:45Z shrdlu68: What's wrong with this :additional-headers list? It cause an error "No space in status line 0" in drakma. I've isolated this as the problematic code, if I remove it everything is groovy.
2017-01-08T05:39:59Z shrdlu68: s/cause/causes
2017-01-08T05:40:32Z shrdlu68: http://paste.lisp.org/+779Y
2017-01-08T05:44:56Z stevegt_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-08T05:48:50Z wheelsucker quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T05:51:11Z Bike: apparently that means that the http response from the server doesn't have a space like it should. can you look at the raw response?
2017-01-08T05:51:43Z shrdlu68: Ok.
2017-01-08T05:55:35Z shrdlu68: I've set *header-stream* to *standard-output* but the error happens before the headers are printed.
2017-01-08T05:56:06Z lexicall joined #lisp
2017-01-08T05:56:50Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-08T05:57:47Z lexicall quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-08T05:58:02Z stevegt_ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T06:05:31Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T06:05:35Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T06:09:42Z smokeink quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-08T06:19:33Z scottj quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-08T06:20:48Z H4ns: shrdlu68: (trace chunga:readline*) should give you an idea what the server responds with.
2017-01-08T06:21:00Z H4ns: shrdlu68: (trace chunga:readl-ine*) even
2017-01-08T06:21:08Z H4ns: damn.  dash between read and line.
2017-01-08T06:39:46Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-08T06:41:19Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-08T06:42:14Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-08T07:01:33Z koisoke_ is now known as koisoke
2017-01-08T07:04:29Z ahungry: ok, I had mentioned it last night, but I finished the working code coverage on https://github.com/ahungry/ahungry-fleece, it basically extends functionality of sb-cover to allow producing report of code coverage in a CLI formatted table and also in a JSON format (to make it easier to integrate with other projects)
2017-01-08T07:05:23Z shrdlu68 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-08T07:09:40Z araujo quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2017-01-08T07:10:14Z coyo quit (Quit: Heaven is not a place, Bartleby, it's being with people who love you.)
2017-01-08T07:10:34Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-08T07:10:46Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2017-01-08T07:10:46Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-08T07:15:07Z Younder joined #lisp
2017-01-08T07:17:16Z Younder: #. is a read macro
2017-01-08T07:22:13Z beach: ahungry: There should be three or four semicolons for a top-level comment.
2017-01-08T07:22:35Z beach: ahungry: Your LOOP has the wrong indentation in af.lib.coverage.lisp.
2017-01-08T07:22:54Z beach: ahungry: Use the slime-indentation contribution to get it right.
2017-01-08T07:23:53Z beach: ahungry: There should (almost) never be any whitespace before a closing parenthesis as you have in report-json.
2017-01-08T07:24:17Z beach: ... and in other functions as well.
2017-01-08T07:25:23Z ryanbw joined #lisp
2017-01-08T07:26:47Z beach: ahungry: WHEN and UNLESS should take a Boolean expression, and not an arbitrary value that might be NIL.  So it is preferable to write (when (null paths) ...) rather than (unless path ...).
2017-01-08T07:27:00Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-08T07:27:16Z H4ns: beach: aha?  can you explain the reasoning for that?
2017-01-08T07:27:50Z beach: It is one of the rules of the LUV slides.
2017-01-08T07:28:02Z H4ns: i was not asking for a reference :)
2017-01-08T07:28:05Z beach: It violates the expectations of the maintainer.
2017-01-08T07:28:11Z H4ns: ah, ok.
2017-01-08T07:28:44Z beach: To me it is very disturbing.
2017-01-08T07:28:56Z H4ns: sorry, i thought you were giving general style advice.  i don't see how (when (null is any better than (unless, quite to the contrary, but if that is the project style, i'm not involved
2017-01-08T07:29:35Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T07:29:46Z beach: (UNLESS stuff ... ) is fine as long as stuff is a Boolean expression.
2017-01-08T07:31:14Z H4ns: i don't concur.  i think explicit boolean conversion should be done only to avoid passing large data structures around when that would have an adverse effect on, i.e., tracing.  otherwise, i advise to embrace the fact that common lisp does not generally have a real boolean type, but represents nil as false and everything else as true, because that leads to more concise code.
2017-01-08T07:32:26Z beach: Noted.
2017-01-08T07:33:26Z williamyaoh: H4ns: The problem is that NIL might not be false, and instead be a legitimate value, the empty list
2017-01-08T07:33:33Z beach: ahungry: In af.lib.loggy.lisp, you have symbols with mixed case.  That is not the typical Common Lisp style.
2017-01-08T07:34:07Z williamyaoh: So I can see where being explicit helps to get around that particular duality of value and lack of value
2017-01-08T07:34:14Z H4ns: williamyaoh: yeah.  it helps to know what you're doing in general.  one of the down sides of not having a proper boolean type in a language is that the falsy value could have many meanings.
2017-01-08T07:34:33Z beach: ahungry: Furthermore, you have the same name of the slot as you have for the accessor, making it possible for client code to use SLOT-VALUE directly, without passing through the documented protocol.
2017-01-08T07:35:26Z williamyaoh: H4ns: It's not really the lack of a proper boolean type, but rather the fact that NIL can stand for both a value and its absence, creating an ambiguity
2017-01-08T07:35:44Z H4ns: williamyaoh: to me, being explicit about booleans because CL does not have them is re-stating the fact that CL does not have it, but not much else.  i don't see how being explicit would be more beneficial than easy to read code in this case.
2017-01-08T07:36:10Z axion: ahungry: Also, I think it is better to make use of SETF's &rest
2017-01-08T07:36:47Z beach: ahungry: It is usually a bad idea to :USE packages other than the COMMON-LISP package.  The reason for that is that you then commit yourself to any future modifications of that package.  If a new version of that package exports a symbol that conflicts with one of yours or one from a different package, then your code breaks gratuitously.
2017-01-08T07:37:30Z beach: ahungry: There are two solutions to that problem.  My preferred solution is to use explicit package prefixes.  The other possibility is to selectively import the symbols you plan to use from the external package.
2017-01-08T07:37:38Z H4ns: williamyaoh: in the end, i guess it is a matter of style, not of reason.  to me, the "more concise" argument trumps the "there could be an ambiguity" argument because there is so much ambiguity in my code and in cl anyway.
2017-01-08T07:39:34Z beach: ahungry: There are also several solutions to the problem of not exporting slot names.  My preferred solution is to prefix slot names with `%' which is the traditional way of indicating "private", or "caution" in Common Lisp.  The other convention I have seen is to suffix the name of the accessor with "-of", which I find less attractive.
2017-01-08T07:41:01Z williamyaoh: H4ns: Fair enough, I'm just playing devil's advocate :) I rely on (if <form> ...) often, so I think it comes down to whether or not it's clear from context whether you're working with *just* lists or *just* booleans.
2017-01-08T07:42:26Z beach: ahungry: In alist-to-hash, you have a blank line between each COND clause.  That is just a waste of vertical space, and gives fewer visible code lines to the maintainer.
2017-01-08T07:43:20Z beach: ahungry: In the function STRINGIFY, you have two semicolons starting a comment on the same line as code.  The usual style is to use a single semicolon in this case.
2017-01-08T07:44:37Z Younder: hi beach, I'm back from California
2017-01-08T07:45:02Z beach: ahungry: You can simplify (if ... (setf <form> <a>) (setf <form> <b>)) to (setf <form> (if ... <a> <b>))
2017-01-08T07:45:22Z beach: Younder: Is that good or bad?
2017-01-08T07:45:42Z Younder: hi beach, yes something like that
2017-01-08T07:46:17Z Younder: we call it a fact ;)
2017-01-08T07:47:30Z beach: ahungry: In WITH-HASHY you repeat the same prefix (progn (setf fn ...)) in each branch of the COND.  You can extract that from the COND to simplify the code.
2017-01-08T07:48:55Z axion: ahungry: You also seem to be using CamelCase symbol names read the reader doesn't care
2017-01-08T07:49:13Z axion: This is annoying to most Lisp maintainers
2017-01-08T07:49:41Z shrdlu68 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T07:50:10Z beach: It also makes an entire family of Emacs commands quite useless.  Now there is no distinction between M-f and C-M-f.
2017-01-08T07:50:55Z Younder: As far as I can see noone has ever used camel case in lisp, hence it is not annoying as much as it is non-existant
2017-01-08T07:51:25Z axion: It is bad style, and too often found in pastes here
2017-01-08T07:52:08Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T07:53:03Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-08T07:53:12Z axion: His is particularly irksome in that he is mixing kebob-case with CamelCase in the same symbols
2017-01-08T07:53:58Z Younder: axion, His?
2017-01-08T07:54:09Z beach: ahungry: In the macros SUITE and DESC, you have (eq 0 ...).  There are two problems with that.  The first one is that the standard does not allow you to use EQ to reliably compare numbers.  The second is that it is a violation of the genera rule to use the most specific constructs that will do the trick.  Here, it would be (ZEROP ...).
2017-01-08T07:54:59Z beach: ahungry: In those macros, you use nested LETs, whereas in other places you use LET* for the same purpose.  It would be better to have a consistent style.
2017-01-08T07:55:25Z axion: also in those macros you have nested LET forms
2017-01-08T07:55:35Z beach: ahungry: Also, in those macros, you have considerable code duplication.
2017-01-08T07:56:18Z Younder: nested let's in macro's sounds like bad style
2017-01-08T07:56:20Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-08T07:57:00Z beach: I personally use nested LETs only if I need some computation between the introduction of two bindings.
2017-01-08T07:57:05Z heurist joined #lisp
2017-01-08T07:57:19Z axion: Right. in this case they are adjacent though
2017-01-08T07:57:25Z beach: Yep.
2017-01-08T08:00:36Z beach: ahungry: In FILE-GET-CONTENTS, you use WHEN in a position where its value is used.  This is another violation of maintainer expectations.  WHEN and UNLESS should be used only in a context where the value is discarded or unimportant.  It is better to use (IF <condition> <thing> NIL) in a context where the value is needed.
2017-01-08T08:00:56Z axion: ahungry: In CLONE-PROJECT, I do not see the point of the PROGN, and most of it's containing forms can be lifted into the LOOP construct via FOR clauses etc
2017-01-08T08:01:02Z beach guesses that H4ns will disagree.
2017-01-08T08:01:02Z axion: its*
2017-01-08T08:02:33Z axion: also not seeing the point of (format nil "~a" node)
2017-01-08T08:03:04Z beach: ahungry: Not only do your LOOP forms have the wrong indentation.  They also have inconsistent indentation as in FILE-GET-CONTENTS vs FILE-PUT-CONTENTS.  When a maintainer sees inconsistent indentation, he or she suspects that indentation was done manually, so that it can not be relied upon to determine program structure, effectively forcing him or her to count parentheses.
2017-01-08T08:04:04Z Younder: beach, Seems to me emacs does that
2017-01-08T08:04:33Z beach: Younder: Inconsistent indentation?  I don't think so.
2017-01-08T08:04:42Z axion: Emacs does not indent Common Lisp correctly alone
2017-01-08T08:05:12Z beach: ahungry: Your extensive docstrings introduce a lot of noise to the maintainer, because they are not indented as the rest of the code.  I recommend the use of #.(format nil "..." so that you can use the format directive ~@ to indent the lines of the docstring?
2017-01-08T08:05:15Z Younder: beach, yes I thought I was missing something
2017-01-08T08:06:31Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T08:07:08Z axion: ahungry: When one has more than a few elements in some type of key/value list structure, as with *COLORS*, it is probably time to use a hash table.
2017-01-08T08:07:32Z d4ryus4 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T08:07:39Z Younder: axion, I would put the llimit at about 100
2017-01-08T08:08:04Z axion: Younder: It is implementation dependent, and often much lower than that
2017-01-08T08:08:38Z Younder: The cost of that hash function though constant is pretty high.
2017-01-08T08:09:44Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-08T08:10:11Z d4ryus3 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T08:10:34Z axion: ahungry: The proper style is to name predicates containing one word without the dash, so *COLORIZEP* instead of *COLORIZE-P*
2017-01-08T08:13:58Z mhd quit (Ping timeout: 183 seconds)
2017-01-08T08:14:33Z Younder: so the scheme style of ? and ! is out?
2017-01-08T08:14:54Z axion: Correct
2017-01-08T08:18:53Z _death: that's not a predicate though..
2017-01-08T08:19:13Z setheus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-08T08:19:48Z Younder: ? is
2017-01-08T08:19:57Z axion: That is true, so it shouldn't have that suffix at all.
2017-01-08T08:20:02Z _death: (btw, I prefer to always -p..)
2017-01-08T08:20:30Z setheus joined #lisp
2017-01-08T08:20:30Z axion: I did that for a while too, but I became much more pedantic of the style rules lately
2017-01-08T08:20:34Z Younder: -p is not correct style. it should be nameP
2017-01-08T08:20:44Z _death: what is "correct style"
2017-01-08T08:20:50Z Younder: NOT THAT IT MATTERS
2017-01-08T08:21:15Z axion: Fare's Google style guide is one that is widely accepted
2017-01-08T08:21:29Z _death: axion: very much doubt that
2017-01-08T08:21:58Z axion: Noted
2017-01-08T08:22:40Z _death: anyway, the -p/p style is described in CLtL.. in the first few years I followed that.. but then -p took over
2017-01-08T08:23:33Z axion: I like to stay consistent with the CL package, as well
2017-01-08T08:24:27Z _death: sure, I can see why you'd prefer that
2017-01-08T08:24:31Z Younder: Witch would make sense if it was consistent
2017-01-08T08:24:50Z drot quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-08T08:24:53Z axion: When is it not?
2017-01-08T08:25:06Z _death: for example ATOM and NULL
2017-01-08T08:25:07Z Younder: Instead it is a mismatch
2017-01-08T08:25:14Z axion: NULL is the same as NOT
2017-01-08T08:25:22Z _death: it is a predicate
2017-01-08T08:25:36Z Younder: and no P or -P
2017-01-08T08:25:37Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-08T08:25:49Z axion: But has the same semantic meaning
2017-01-08T08:26:04Z Younder: by accident
2017-01-08T08:26:16Z _death: it has the same extension, but different intension
2017-01-08T08:26:16Z Younder: not by intention
2017-01-08T08:26:45Z axion: It matters not which you use. CLHS mentions this I believe. Of course like CAR/FIRST, CDR/LAST it is preferable to use the correct one in the right context, but they do the same thing
2017-01-08T08:27:34Z beach: There are clearly some small differences between individuals when it comes to style, just like in text in natural languages.  Each author has to weigh the advantages of his or her preferred style against the possibility of disturbing the reader, so that the reader has difficulty concentrating on the message, and instead sees only style violations.
2017-01-08T08:28:15Z axion: Code after all is a portrayal of ones own mind
2017-01-08T08:28:48Z Younder: You might want to read Edi Weitz new book. Common Lisp recipes. He offers advice on these matters.
2017-01-08T08:28:51Z beach: And, just like with natural languages, some influential authors can change the accepted style, but mostly authors overestimate their ability in this respect.
2017-01-08T08:28:58Z axion: I read it cover to cover
2017-01-08T08:30:10Z _death: I'm 100 pages into it by now.. so far not impressed, but will finish it
2017-01-08T08:30:39Z axion: I disagree with some things, but overall it is a very good book I think
2017-01-08T08:30:48Z Younder: I'm about half way through
2017-01-08T08:30:56Z axion: Like his dislike for DEFSTRUCT because it creates implicit symbols
2017-01-08T08:31:20Z beach: What I have a hard time understanding is when people submit text or code for others to read, but then they ask the reader to ignore style violations and just give feedback on the message.  That is very hard to do in general, at least for me.
2017-01-08T08:31:26Z Younder: It does, but I am fine with that
2017-01-08T08:31:49Z Younder: Just as long as it is predictable
2017-01-08T08:31:52Z axion: beach: I agree
2017-01-08T08:32:17Z Younder: Whatever we have defclass now
2017-01-08T08:32:41Z axion: DEFSTRUCT can do things it cannot
2017-01-08T08:32:56Z Younder: so defstruct is deprecated
2017-01-08T08:33:24Z Younder: axion, oh! elaborate
2017-01-08T08:33:30Z H4ns: using defstruct is really a matter of style.  of bad style, i'd say, but that is just me.
2017-01-08T08:34:03Z drot joined #lisp
2017-01-08T08:34:17Z axion: Younder: creating types http://paste.lisp.org/display/336028
2017-01-08T08:35:08Z Younder: That's pretty cool
2017-01-08T08:36:48Z Younder: I've never have thought of using a defstruct like that
2017-01-08T08:37:21Z axion: I have, because I had to write a very efficient game math library, so I have lots of compiler helpers like that.
2017-01-08T08:37:21Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-08T08:38:05Z Younder: So defstruct allows for better efficiency. Didn't know that
2017-01-08T08:38:37Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T08:39:25Z Younder reconsiders defstruct
2017-01-08T08:45:17Z Younder: I bet there are a lot of dark corners of Lisp I am not aware about. I guess that's why I am here.
2017-01-08T08:46:03Z Younder: thx axiom
2017-01-08T08:46:04Z axion: Younder: You would be correct in that assumption. I've barely scratched the surface in my decade of explicit use
2017-01-08T08:46:30Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-08T08:47:07Z mhd quit (Ping timeout: 184 seconds)
2017-01-08T08:47:14Z _death: http://cl-su-ai.cddddr.org/ if you have time..
2017-01-08T08:49:40Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T08:57:17Z mhd quit (Ping timeout: 185 seconds)
2017-01-08T08:57:24Z Younder: _death, RFC's from the original implementors! How did you find it
2017-01-08T08:57:28Z Younder: ?
2017-01-08T08:58:29Z Younder: bookmakred
2017-01-08T08:58:43Z _death: someone linked it on reddit some years ago.  I made a gnus-friendly version and spent some months reading it
2017-01-08T08:58:56Z mhd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-08T09:00:08Z axion: How is Usenet these days, still low signal to noise ratio? I have been considering revisiting the groups I used to frequent many years ago.
2017-01-08T09:01:06Z _death: not much action on the lisp groups
2017-01-08T09:01:24Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T09:01:30Z beach: Oh, my!  PSL.  Memories...
2017-01-08T09:01:41Z _main_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T09:02:02Z Younder: I fear I am making up much of the noise, but the quality of information I have been given today is exceptional!
2017-01-08T09:02:28Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T09:02:28Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T09:03:27Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-08T09:03:45Z Younder: Keep up the good work.
2017-01-08T09:03:58Z _main_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T09:04:17Z jackdaniel: _death: very interested resource, thanks
2017-01-08T09:04:22Z _death: I believe that CL standardization committee was one of the first to use email for a collaborative effort
2017-01-08T09:04:23Z jackdaniel: interesting°
2017-01-08T09:04:26Z __main__ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T09:06:00Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T09:06:36Z _death: reading emails from 1981.. anyway, because it was one of the first there was even a sociological (I think) study based on it
2017-01-08T09:07:36Z _death: if you want the gnus-friendly version for that (and for LL1 mailing list).. check https://adeht.org/
2017-01-08T09:08:26Z _death: (now without google analytics!)
2017-01-08T09:08:45Z axion: Thanks _death for the resource
2017-01-08T09:08:50Z axion: s
2017-01-08T09:09:39Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-08T09:15:50Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-08T09:18:34Z Bike quit (Quit: seize da means of production, doc)
2017-01-08T09:22:00Z meocs joined #lisp
2017-01-08T09:22:51Z manualcrank quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-08T09:28:18Z axion quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-08T09:28:56Z axion joined #lisp
2017-01-08T09:28:56Z axion quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-08T09:29:33Z axion joined #lisp
2017-01-08T09:38:51Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-08T09:39:31Z yincha quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-08T09:40:39Z shrdlu68 left #lisp
2017-01-08T09:46:38Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-08T09:51:32Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-08T09:53:23Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-08T09:54:05Z rjid quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-08T10:00:57Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-08T10:04:22Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-08T10:05:39Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-08T10:07:42Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-08T10:08:18Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-08T10:14:29Z loke quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T10:15:22Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-08T10:17:28Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-08T10:49:30Z toogley quit (Quit: toogley)
2017-01-08T10:49:43Z toogley joined #lisp
2017-01-08T10:51:04Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2017-01-08T10:52:38Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-08T10:53:24Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-08T10:55:06Z axion: Hey _death, you still there?
2017-01-08T11:07:00Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-08T11:11:19Z devon joined #lisp
2017-01-08T11:14:22Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-08T11:14:38Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T11:15:06Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-08T11:15:34Z devon: In CCL, :return-from-frame hangs.  The frame in question is wrapped in ignore-errors so I guess (error "get me out of here") should do the trick, any thoughts?
2017-01-08T11:29:43Z _death: sup
2017-01-08T11:35:05Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T11:43:03Z phoe: axion: _death is around
2017-01-08T11:48:56Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T11:50:04Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-08T11:53:30Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-08T11:57:45Z _death: then again, could be (defmethod answer :around ((message answering-machine-mixin)) (if (and (equal (recipient message) "_death") (eq (purpose message) :around-check) (random-elt *greetings*) (call-next-method))))
2017-01-08T11:58:08Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-08T11:58:28Z _death: arf, misplaced paren
2017-01-08T11:58:59Z axion: _death: ignore me. I was having problems with gnus. Trying to set up your stuff but I'm making progress. I've been away from usenet for over a decade heh
2017-01-08T12:01:34Z _death: axion: ah.. I use gnus for more than usenet.. see https://www.reddit.com/r/Common_Lisp/comments/5cl5y1/a_webtorss_parser_in_common_lisp/d9xrqi8/
2017-01-08T12:01:51Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-08T12:02:45Z axion: interesting
2017-01-08T12:02:59Z axion: for mail, i hop between mu4e and notmuch. i can't decide heh
2017-01-08T12:12:53Z phoe: I have a question about conditions.
2017-01-08T12:13:32Z phoe: I want to create a base condition class, FOO, and various subclasses of that: FOO-A, FOO-B, FOO-ERROR-A, FOO-ERROR-B.
2017-01-08T12:14:10Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-08T12:14:35Z phoe: When I signal some of these conditions, the non-error ones namely, I'll want the computation to proceed. For errors, I will want to unwind the stack and invoke the proper handler instead.
2017-01-08T12:15:35Z yincha joined #lisp
2017-01-08T12:16:40Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-08T12:17:16Z phoe: What syntax should I use for that? I want some means of defining handlers that will accept the condition class, a parameter that tells whether it should call the handler function in-place or whether it should unwind the stack, and the handler function itself.
2017-01-08T12:17:58Z phoe: So basically, ((foo-a :in-place (lambda (e) ...)) (foo-b :in-place (lambda (e) ...)) (foo-error-a :unwind (lambda (e) ...)) (foo-error-b :unwind (lambda (e) ...)))
2017-01-08T12:20:59Z scymtym: phoe: iiuc, that's just (block nil (handler-bind ((foo-a (lambda (c) …)) (foo-b (lambda (c) …)) (foo-error-a (lambda (c) … (return RETURN-VALUE))))))
2017-01-08T12:22:47Z phoe: scymtym: so the only difference is the fact that the returning handlers have RETURN-FROM in them?
2017-01-08T12:22:58Z _death: maybe the other way around (foo-a/b returning, foo-error-a/b declining)
2017-01-08T12:23:19Z _death: also, there are no condition classes, but condition types :(
2017-01-08T12:23:24Z phoe: uh
2017-01-08T12:23:26Z phoe: sorry about that~
2017-01-08T12:24:52Z scymtym: phoe: probably, i wasn't sure whether you were asking how to implement that behavior or wanted to design a macro exhibiting that behavior
2017-01-08T12:24:55Z Xach: fe[nl]ix: i am having some trouble with the new static-vectors :(
2017-01-08T12:25:02Z _death: but the question is a bit weird.. are you aware of SIGNAL?
2017-01-08T12:25:18Z phoe: _death: yes, I'm aware!
2017-01-08T12:25:30Z phoe: That's what I'm using.
2017-01-08T12:26:02Z Xach: fe[nl]ix: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336034
2017-01-08T12:27:41Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-08T12:28:16Z phoe: Basically, when I call (SIGNAL 'FOO-A), I'd like to execute a function and let the computation proceed. When I call (SIGNAL 'FOO-ERROR-A), I want to unwind the stack and execute a function.
2017-01-08T12:28:25Z phoe: BBL - real life is calling.
2017-01-08T12:31:20Z _death: "unwind the stack" is the strange thing to want in that context.. and errors usually are signaled using ERROR/CERROR so that they break into the debugger if unhandled
2017-01-08T12:33:34Z _death: now, you may wish to handle the errors using HANDLER-CASE and the nonerrors using HANDLER-BIND.. given the order you just specified (unwind then execute)
2017-01-08T12:38:05Z kodnin quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-08T12:38:57Z _death: scymtym: (you are right, it's not the other way around..)
2017-01-08T12:39:55Z Xach: fe[nl]ix: https://github.com/sionescu/static-vectors/issues/10 created for tracking
2017-01-08T12:40:51Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T12:51:58Z vert2_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-08T12:52:32Z nydel quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017-01-08T12:53:14Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2017-01-08T12:53:40Z vert2 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T12:54:08Z nydel joined #lisp
2017-01-08T12:57:31Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-08T12:57:46Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-08T12:57:58Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T13:01:20Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-08T13:04:21Z Hoolootwo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-08T13:05:41Z easye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T13:05:44Z easye` joined #lisp
2017-01-08T13:06:54Z Hoolootwo joined #lisp
2017-01-08T13:07:12Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-08T13:10:58Z fe[nl]ix: Xach: thanks
2017-01-08T13:12:44Z devon: In CCL, is there a workaround for :return-from-frame hanging forever?
2017-01-08T13:16:37Z axion: Anyone have any advice on browsing comp.lang.lisp for interesting threads to read with gnus? Fetching the headers freezes my Emacs until I C-g after about 4k downloaded, and there are 210k
2017-01-08T13:17:42Z Guest21291 is now known as tiago
2017-01-08T13:22:31Z _death: axion: there is a cll archive created by ron garrett that you can download
2017-01-08T13:23:13Z axion: What is the difference between that and downloading from my usenet provider?
2017-01-08T13:25:23Z _death: well, you could download the articles from the provider.. but maybe not use gnus for that
2017-01-08T13:26:03Z axion: sigh
2017-01-08T13:26:07Z Xach: the cll archive is not great for browsing
2017-01-08T13:26:26Z _death: Xach: in what way?
2017-01-08T13:26:52Z Xach: It is a linear file that must be processed for useful access
2017-01-08T13:27:00Z Xach: Much of it is spam
2017-01-08T13:28:33Z _death: I see.. I have it but did not use it, since I obtained it long after my usenet spelunking days
2017-01-08T13:28:47Z Xach: I am glad it exists, but I also had to write software to make it useful, and that took time
2017-01-08T13:29:38Z Xach: it was also not general-purpose :~(
2017-01-08T13:38:07Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-08T13:40:06Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-08T13:40:16Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-08T13:43:04Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-08T13:44:55Z SAL9000 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-08T13:45:51Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-08T13:46:46Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-08T13:48:48Z McFeatherbottom joined #lisp
2017-01-08T13:49:44Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-08T13:50:22Z Tordek quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-08T13:50:31Z nydel quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T13:50:50Z vert2 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T13:59:26Z edza101 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:00:16Z SAL9000 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:00:23Z edza101: Does Common Lisp offer any real advantages over SBCL sans CLOS? It seems that the blazing fast speed of SBCL outmatches all the other implementations.
2017-01-08T14:03:18Z axion: Um
2017-01-08T14:03:19Z loke: edza101: What do you mean? Common Lisp is a standard, it's implemented by SBCL as well as several others.
2017-01-08T14:04:37Z Tordek joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:05:22Z SAL9000 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-08T14:07:51Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:09:30Z Xach suspects a missing word
2017-01-08T14:09:56Z beach: edza101: You can't not use CLOS if you use a Common Lisp implementation.  But perhaps you mean that you don't want to use generic functions and standard classes.  But then, I can't see why you would want to deprive yourself of one of the greatest advantages of Common Lisp.
2017-01-08T14:10:24Z nydel joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:10:28Z vert2 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:10:44Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-08T14:11:20Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:12:00Z _death: (initialismexpand 'SBCL) ==> (STEEL BANK COMMON LISP)
2017-01-08T14:13:14Z libre-man joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:13:59Z edgar-rft: AFAIK in Common Lisp even T and NIL are system classes. How would you want to use Common Lisp without T and NIL?
2017-01-08T14:14:28Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:15:20Z libre-man is now known as libreman
2017-01-08T14:15:28Z _death: it's more accurate to say that T and NIL are instances of built in classes
2017-01-08T14:16:37Z edgar-rft: According to the CLHS T and NIL are system classes, where T is the superclass of all classes and NIL is the subclass of all classes.
2017-01-08T14:17:06Z _death: well, they are the names of classes too
2017-01-08T14:17:24Z beach: T is a system class.  NIL is a type.
2017-01-08T14:18:07Z jackdaniel: this may be useful: http://sellout.github.io/2012/03/03/common-lisp-type-hierarchy/
2017-01-08T14:18:55Z edgar-rft: beach is right: NIL is the subtype of all types.
2017-01-08T14:19:30Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-08T14:19:57Z edgar-rft: I once did a graphiz print of all classes and type, but it's quite big :-)
2017-01-08T14:20:25Z beach suspects that edza101 was not interested in having his/her opinions debated; just confirmed.  Oh well.
2017-01-08T14:21:07Z _death: edgar-rft: I took your remark to mean instances because then the argument could make sense..
2017-01-08T14:22:09Z edgar-rft: my arguments *never* make sense :-)
2017-01-08T14:22:10Z _death: all Lisp objects are CLOS instances, conceptually
2017-01-08T14:23:01Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:23:24Z edgar-rft: I remembered that T was the CLOS superclass and all numbers are classes, too. With NIL I was wrong.
2017-01-08T14:23:41Z _death: (except conditions :)
2017-01-08T14:24:16Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:26:50Z edgar-rft: According to the CLHS CONDITION is a subclass of T, or what do you mean?
2017-01-08T14:28:27Z _death: edgar-rft: I mean that for 4, I can say that its an instance of a BUILT-IN-CLASS.. for a structure, I can say that it's an instance of a STRUCTURE-CLASS.. but there's no CONDITION-CLASS in the standard.. when they added conditions, even if it was a late addition, they could have closed that loop hole
2017-01-08T14:29:12Z SAL9000 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:29:25Z test1600_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-08T14:30:29Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:31:12Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T14:31:15Z _main_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T14:31:30Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T14:31:32Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:31:39Z edgar-rft: When it is no class, why has it then a class precedence list? I know there are some quirks in the CL specification and you're right that CONDITION is a type, not a class. But that's how life is :(
2017-01-08T14:31:46Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-08T14:32:23Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:33:11Z jackdaniel: condition is a class, but it's not a sub-class of standard-class
2017-01-08T14:33:34Z _death: jackdaniel: it may be implemented as a class, that is not a necessity
2017-01-08T14:33:55Z jackdaniel: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/e_cnd.htm ← class precedence list
2017-01-08T14:34:04Z jackdaniel: it *is* a class
2017-01-08T14:34:15Z edgar-rft feels like an instance of T now...
2017-01-08T14:34:20Z _death: nope.. it says "Condition Type"
2017-01-08T14:35:04Z jackdaniel: class precedence list implies that it is a class, and it is unavoidable here
2017-01-08T14:35:21Z _main_ is now known as __main__
2017-01-08T14:38:52Z edgar-rft: Hmm, is CONDITION then a class in the CLOS sense or must a CLOS class be a subclass of STANDARD-CLASS?
2017-01-08T14:38:54Z axion: what about strings?
2017-01-08T14:39:04Z axion: seems to be an SBCL builtin class
2017-01-08T14:39:18Z _death: axion: there is a STRING class
2017-01-08T14:39:50Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:40:17Z _death: jackdaniel: it looks like a mess, I'll need to read the relevant issue and look for further discussion
2017-01-08T14:40:28Z beach: axion: A system class can be a built-in class or some other class (say a standard class).
2017-01-08T14:41:02Z beach: "system class n. a class that may be of type built-in-class in a conforming implementation and hence cannot be inherited by classes defined by conforming programs."
2017-01-08T14:41:04Z jackdaniel: once again, I recommend this graph of lisp types and classes: http://sellout.github.io/2012/03/03/common-lisp-type-hierarchy/
2017-01-08T14:41:25Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:43:37Z beach: "Conditions are generalized instances of the class condition."
2017-01-08T14:43:41Z beach: clhs 9.1
2017-01-08T14:43:41Z specbot: Condition System Concepts: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/09_a.htm
2017-01-08T14:44:40Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T14:45:31Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:45:40Z _death: jackdaniel: according to this graph CONDITION and its ilk are built-in-classes.. which wrong according to the "Class Precedence List", even
2017-01-08T14:45:44Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:46:26Z beach: _death: What?  Built-in classes have class precedence lists as well.
2017-01-08T14:47:02Z beach: clhs integer
2017-01-08T14:47:03Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_intege.htm
2017-01-08T14:47:18Z _death: beach: I mean that the class precedence list in the CLHS entry for (Condition Type...) CONDITION is (CONDITION T).. no BUILT-IN-CLASS there
2017-01-08T14:47:28Z beach: Oh, I see.
2017-01-08T14:47:51Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:48:12Z beach: CONDITION would be an INSTANCE of BUILT-IN-CLASS.
2017-01-08T14:48:18Z beach: Not a subclass.
2017-01-08T14:49:36Z p_l: Instance of metaclass
2017-01-08T14:50:00Z beach: Just like "3 is an integer" means that "3 is an instance of the class INTEGER", "CONDITION is a built-in class" means that "CONDITION is an instance of the class BUILT-IN-CLASS."
2017-01-08T14:50:10Z jackdaniel: example of type system / class leak is lack of exactl float types specialization
2017-01-08T14:50:13Z _death: right, guess I need to sort it out at a better time
2017-01-08T14:50:24Z jackdaniel: (for instatnce you can't conformingly specialize on double-float)
2017-01-08T14:50:44Z jackdaniel: but you can specialize on float
2017-01-08T14:50:54Z jackdaniel: (sorry for delays, I'm cleaning the flat :D)
2017-01-08T14:51:26Z _death: (still, SBCL's SB-PCL::CONDITION-CLASS is not a subclass of BUILT-IN-CLASS)
2017-01-08T14:52:09Z beach: _death: It shouldn't be.
2017-01-08T14:52:20Z edza101 left #lisp
2017-01-08T14:52:58Z _death: beach: that's why the graph is wrong
2017-01-08T14:52:58Z beach: _death: Oh, wait.  I shouldn't say anything about SBCL's internal stuff.
2017-01-08T14:53:38Z _death: because the standard does not specify any CONDITION class.. it specifies a CONDITION Condition Type.. which somehow has a Class Precedence List...
2017-01-08T14:54:01Z beach: clhs 9.1
2017-01-08T14:54:01Z specbot: Condition System Concepts: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/09_a.htm
2017-01-08T14:54:08Z beach: "Conditions are generalized instances of the class condition."
2017-01-08T14:54:48Z _death: see, that makes it even stranger
2017-01-08T14:55:18Z _death: where is the entry for Class CONDITION then
2017-01-08T14:55:27Z beach: I suspect sbcl's CONDITION-CLASS is a subclass of the class CLASS just like built-in-class, standard-class, etc.
2017-01-08T14:55:43Z beach: And that CONDITION is an instance of the class CONDITION-CLASS.
2017-01-08T14:55:50Z beach: ... in SBCL.
2017-01-08T14:56:28Z _death: beach: yes
2017-01-08T14:56:36Z beach: (class-of (find-class 'condition)) => #<STANDARD-CLASS SB-PCL::CONDITION-CLASS>
2017-01-08T14:57:09Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T14:57:40Z _death: well, be back later
2017-01-08T14:58:19Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:58:44Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-08T14:59:45Z beach: I think that is pretty standard practice.  Have the metaclass for condition classes be a (not necessarily direct) subclass of CLASS, but not a subclass of BUILT-IN-CLASS.
2017-01-08T15:00:54Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-08T15:06:38Z EvW1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T15:09:03Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-08T15:09:17Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-08T15:09:17Z klltkr quit (Changing host)
2017-01-08T15:09:17Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-08T15:09:40Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-08T15:12:10Z sellout-1 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T15:12:49Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-08T15:13:58Z edgar-rft: beach, _death, jackdaniel, p_l: thanks for the explanations, on #lisp one can learn every day something new :-)
2017-01-08T15:14:15Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T15:15:56Z jackdaniel: :)
2017-01-08T15:17:38Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-08T15:18:39Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-08T15:31:01Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-08T15:33:16Z beach: edgar-rft: Sure.  And I totally agree.  I learn something (almost) every day here.
2017-01-08T15:38:30Z prole quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T15:39:43Z beach: jackdaniel: Are you still thinking of using Cleavir to write a compiler for ECL?
2017-01-08T15:40:00Z devon quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-08T15:41:52Z jackdaniel: beach: yes, after merging new compiler infrastructure I want to incorporate it as an alternative compiler
2017-01-08T15:42:09Z jackdaniel: if it will prove to be better, then it will become default after transition time
2017-01-08T15:42:19Z beach: Great!
2017-01-08T15:42:33Z beach: Do yo plan to generate C code?
2017-01-08T15:42:39Z jackdaniel: yes
2017-01-08T15:42:47Z beach: I think that's wise.
2017-01-08T15:42:55Z jackdaniel: in fact, I have already working compiler switching
2017-01-08T15:42:57Z beach: ... for your use case.
2017-01-08T15:43:06Z jackdaniel: so one may generate C code and C++ code at the same run
2017-01-08T15:43:21Z jackdaniel: I want to incorporate python-boost approach for templates and such
2017-01-08T15:43:31Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-08T15:43:40Z beach: Your working compiler is the improved existing ECL compiler?
2017-01-08T15:43:43Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T15:43:44Z jackdaniel: yes, ECL is tightly coupled with posix systems
2017-01-08T15:44:04Z beach: I mean, have you started work on using Cleavir yet?
2017-01-08T15:44:05Z jackdaniel: right, I'm just refactoring it
2017-01-08T15:44:08Z beach: OK.
2017-01-08T15:46:47Z jackdaniel: I'm also documentin environment implementation
2017-01-08T15:49:37Z beach: Sounds like you are making steady progress.
2017-01-08T15:50:35Z jackdaniel: it only sounds that way I'm afraid :) but there is some progress fortunately
2017-01-08T15:51:36Z jackdaniel: also ECL witnessed some valuable contributions lately what is also very exciting
2017-01-08T15:51:53Z beach: Oh?  Like what?
2017-01-08T15:52:34Z jackdaniel: like bug fixes in form of pull requests, feature requests, fixes in external systems, adaptation for other OS'es (ECL was added to haiku-ports recently)
2017-01-08T15:59:56Z Younder: Yes I have negrown respect for ECL
2017-01-08T16:01:09Z Younder: messing (more than working) with clasp has given me more respect for implementing a Lisp.
2017-01-08T16:09:47Z p_l: https://chriskohlhepp.wordpress.com/functional-programming-section/metacircular-adventures-in-functional-abstraction-challenging-clojure-in-common-lisp/ <---- an usable cells tutorial! (among other things)
2017-01-08T16:15:37Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-08T16:16:27Z flip214: hmmm, I've got an ASD file lying around, and doing sbcl --noinform ... --eval "(asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op #P"/.../name") results in a control stack overflow.
2017-01-08T16:19:02Z Xach: flip214: it shouldn't overflow, but loading a file is not a way to work anyway.
2017-01-08T16:19:55Z flip214: Xach: yeah, thanks; I could guess that I'm doing something wrong, but as you said - an overflow isn't nice.
2017-01-08T16:21:19Z rtmanpages joined #lisp
2017-01-08T16:21:37Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T16:22:42Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-08T16:26:42Z malice: Is there a way to give a hash-table a default held value?
2017-01-08T16:26:55Z malice: I don't mean DEFAULT optional argument to gethash
2017-01-08T16:27:07Z malice: Or is there some library that utilizes such an interface?
2017-01-08T16:27:22Z axion: default held value?
2017-01-08T16:27:52Z beach: axion: Wrap the hash table in a custom class.
2017-01-08T16:27:53Z malice: idk if I expressed myself clearly enough, but e.g. in Python, you have something called defaultdict
2017-01-08T16:28:04Z malice: beach: you wanted to adress me, I guess :)
2017-01-08T16:28:16Z beach: OOPS, sorry.  Yes.
2017-01-08T16:28:29Z malice: But, hash-table isn't CLOS, right?
2017-01-08T16:28:49Z beach: By "wrapping" I mean stick a hash table in a slot.
2017-01-08T16:28:50Z malice: I couldn't inherit from hash-table and have generic functions out of the box?
2017-01-08T16:28:53Z beach: But yes, it is CLOS.
2017-01-08T16:29:14Z beach: (defclass my-hash-table () ((%table :initform (make-hash-table))))
2017-01-08T16:29:34Z malice: So I could inherift from hash-table, and just add :around method to gethash that would return default value?
2017-01-08T16:29:44Z malice: in case the element isn't present?
2017-01-08T16:29:53Z beach: No, you can not inherit from hash-table.
2017-01-08T16:29:56Z beach: make it a slot.
2017-01-08T16:30:02Z malice: Too bad!
2017-01-08T16:30:08Z beach: Make it a slot.
2017-01-08T16:30:21Z malice: I understand, I wanted to know the possibilities.
2017-01-08T16:30:35Z malice: I have another question regarding your naming convention. Why %table and not table?
2017-01-08T16:30:47Z rogersm joined #lisp
2017-01-08T16:31:38Z beach: malice: Because typically when you write a class, you want to export the name of the accessor for use by client code (but maybe not this time) and not export the name of the slot.
2017-01-08T16:31:51Z beach: malice: So you typically need two different names.
2017-01-08T16:32:03Z beach: I fix this problem by prefixing the slot name by %.
2017-01-08T16:32:52Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-08T16:33:02Z beach: malice: Another way of looking at it is that slot names are important for only one thing, namely so that DEFCLASS etc can recognize unique slots in a class hierarchy.  They should generally not be used for any access.
2017-01-08T16:34:05Z beach: malice: With this convention, for client code to break the protocol, it would have to write something like package-name::%slot-name which has two indications of danger in it, namely :: and %.
2017-01-08T16:35:05Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-08T16:35:41Z beach: malice: But hash tables are still CLOS.  Try (class-of (make-hash-table)) for instance.
2017-01-08T16:36:05Z malice: Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense.
2017-01-08T16:36:17Z beach: Sure.
2017-01-08T16:36:19Z malice: in SBCL it's STRUCTURE-CLASS
2017-01-08T16:36:25Z beach: So?
2017-01-08T16:36:53Z malice: Just wanted to report. Nothing specatcular. I believe the output is implementation-dependant?
2017-01-08T16:37:12Z beach: Yes, I think that's true.
2017-01-08T16:37:31Z beach: I just wanted to show that hash-table is a class, so CLOS is definitely involved.
2017-01-08T16:39:46Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-08T16:39:51Z malice: Isn't CLOS involved for every LISP object in CL?
2017-01-08T16:39:59Z beach: Yes, it is.
2017-01-08T16:40:00Z malice: I mean, (class-of 5) also returns something
2017-01-08T16:40:34Z beach: Which is why "hash-table isn't CLOS, right?" is false.
2017-01-08T16:41:23Z beach: There is no such thing in Common Lisp as "a CLOS class".  Some people use that term to mean a standard class (i.e., an instance of the class STANDARD-CLASS), but there is no support for that usage in the Common Lisp HyperSpec.  The only reasonable interpretation of "a CLOS class" is "a class that is part of CLOS" which makes it the same as "a class".
2017-01-08T16:42:59Z malice: That's good to know. What I meant by "hash-table is CLOS" was "can I make child class of hash-table?", which is false.
2017-01-08T16:43:33Z beach: I kind of understood what you meant, but wanted to correct your terminology for next time.
2017-01-08T16:44:00Z beach: And "child class" is really called "subclass" in CLOS.
2017-01-08T16:45:40Z beach: malice: But, subclassing is over-used in OO design anyway.  It is frequently preferable to wrap the object in a different class, so instead of using the "is-a" relation, use a "has-a" relation instead.  It gives much weaker coupling in the design.
2017-01-08T16:46:13Z malice: I don't subclass often, but in this design I guess it would make sense.
2017-01-08T16:46:50Z beach: What you seem to need is something that behaves a bit differently from hash tables, so it makes sense to create your own class.
2017-01-08T16:47:56Z beach: That way, you can do (make-instance my-hash-table :test ... :default-value ...).
2017-01-08T16:49:36Z beach: (defmethod my-gethash ((my-table my-hash-table) key) (gethash (table my-table) key (default-value my-table)))
2017-01-08T16:53:05Z beach: Even if you could subclass hash-table, and assuming GETHASH and (SETF GETHASH) are generic functions, you could not change the signature of GETHASH, so you would have to decide what value to return when the optional default value is given to GETHASH.
2017-01-08T16:55:11Z malice: Right.
2017-01-08T17:01:01Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-08T17:02:06Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-08T17:05:34Z arbv joined #lisp
2017-01-08T17:08:21Z devon joined #lisp
2017-01-08T17:14:59Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-08T17:15:31Z sellout-1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T17:16:52Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-08T17:24:30Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-08T17:27:35Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-08T17:28:03Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-08T17:32:33Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T17:34:19Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T17:36:21Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T17:36:31Z __main__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T17:37:29Z _main_ is now known as __main__
2017-01-08T17:38:50Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T17:39:30Z __main__ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T17:40:03Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-08T17:43:21Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-08T17:48:34Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-08T17:48:51Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T17:49:38Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-08T17:50:24Z malice: Do we have the syntax found in other languages, e.g. Haskell or Python, that you cann use _ in place of value that you don't want to use?
2017-01-08T17:50:29Z malice: Or do we have some library that allows for that?
2017-01-08T17:50:36Z malice: Or am I stuck with (declare (ignore ...)
2017-01-08T17:52:21Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-08T17:53:28Z klltkr quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-08T17:55:09Z learning joined #lisp
2017-01-08T17:56:10Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T17:56:11Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-08T17:57:13Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-08T18:07:45Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-08T18:14:08Z aenn left #lisp
2017-01-08T18:16:06Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-08T18:17:00Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-08T18:17:56Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-08T18:17:57Z klltkr quit (Changing host)
2017-01-08T18:17:57Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-08T18:19:35Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T18:22:02Z attila_lendvai: malice: I like using metabang-bind instead of let, mult-val-bind, etc... an it supports _
2017-01-08T18:22:41Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-08T18:25:15Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T18:32:37Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-08T18:34:42Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T18:36:34Z learning quit
2017-01-08T18:46:22Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-08T18:46:54Z flip214: for SBCL, is there a way to find out which package uses the most space? Is there some way to get "number of bytes" starting from some pointer (eg. a symbol) or similar?
2017-01-08T18:46:59Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-08T18:47:48Z flip214: yeah, trees of references, so it might not be that easy to find out what belongs to whom, but I'd have hoped for some
2017-01-08T18:47:58Z flip214: hint what part of the forest I can start shaking...
2017-01-08T18:48:18Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-08T18:50:06Z flip214: For example, I guess that quite some functions from loaded systems are not used, and so shouldn't be referenced apart from their symbols...
2017-01-08T18:51:36Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-08T18:52:46Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T18:53:56Z psylence joined #lisp
2017-01-08T18:55:09Z psylence: Best scheme interpreter?
2017-01-08T18:55:16Z psylence: I've been using chicken. Is there anything better?
2017-01-08T18:55:25Z beach: psylence: This channel is for Common Lisp.
2017-01-08T18:55:30Z psylence: Oh.
2017-01-08T18:55:36Z psylence: I assumed it was lisp+dialects.
2017-01-08T18:55:45Z psylence: My bad.
2017-01-08T18:55:46Z beach: I think there is ##lisp for that.  Not sure.
2017-01-08T18:56:16Z psylence: There's a #scheme. :)
2017-01-08T18:56:19Z psylence: Thanks.
2017-01-08T18:56:21Z psylence: Peace.
2017-01-08T18:56:21Z psylence left #lisp
2017-01-08T18:58:42Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-08T19:18:25Z puchacz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T19:18:49Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-08T19:27:10Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T19:28:34Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-08T19:29:38Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T19:29:39Z cpc26 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-08T19:29:39Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T19:32:59Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-08T19:34:24Z Warlock_29A joined #lisp
2017-01-08T19:39:20Z cpc26 quit
2017-01-08T19:40:51Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-08T19:42:10Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-08T19:44:35Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-08T19:47:23Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-08T19:49:12Z Posterdati quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T19:51:14Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-08T19:52:39Z fiveop joined #lisp
2017-01-08T19:53:49Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-08T19:53:50Z test1600_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T19:55:17Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2017-01-08T20:03:28Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2017-01-08T20:06:07Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T20:06:22Z xuxuru quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T20:06:56Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2017-01-08T20:09:26Z keltvek joined #lisp
2017-01-08T20:11:00Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-08T20:15:06Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-08T20:15:38Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T20:22:10Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-08T20:24:53Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-08T20:27:27Z nhandler quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-08T20:30:55Z aeth: I'm confused by http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/25_ada.htm
2017-01-08T20:35:06Z fiveop quit
2017-01-08T20:35:15Z phoe: _death: yes, HANDLER-CASE and HANDLER-BIND is something I want in this case. Errors using HANDLER-CASE and non-errors using HANDLER-BIND. And yes, I want the ERROR function. Thanks!
2017-01-08T20:35:18Z aeth: It's not clear to me if the hour it's giving is (- utc time-zone) or (+ utc (- time-zone) (if dst 1 0))
2017-01-08T20:35:47Z aeth: i.e. if the DST modifier changes the time-zone given or if it should be seen as a +/- hour modifier in addition to the time-zone
2017-01-08T20:36:31Z aeth: "does not depend on whether daylight savings time is in effect" unfortunately is also ambiguous imo. http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_t.htm#time_zone
2017-01-08T20:37:35Z aeth: "does not depend" could mean that the time zone modifier is constant relative to UTC (i.e. changes with local DST), or constant relative to the local time-zone (i.e. doesn't change with local DST)
2017-01-08T20:41:28Z kjak joined #lisp
2017-01-08T20:44:08Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-08T20:49:13Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-08T20:53:12Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-08T20:54:23Z lisp613 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T20:59:33Z nhandler joined #lisp
2017-01-08T21:01:22Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-08T21:04:55Z strelox quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T21:08:47Z aeth: I *think* this is the simple conversion between get-decoded-time and iso-8601-time. http://paste.lisp.org/+77BK
2017-01-08T21:09:27Z aeth: The only complication is the timezone part
2017-01-08T21:17:29Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-08T21:18:17Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-08T21:19:20Z lisp613: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336081
2017-01-08T21:19:26Z lisp613: Here's my question
2017-01-08T21:21:55Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T21:29:30Z Bike: you could do the same thing, or have it as a dynamic variable, or have the lower calls just return values that are composed into lists by the higher levels.
2017-01-08T21:30:29Z ralt joined #lisp
2017-01-08T21:30:32Z Bike: ...dynamic variable being roughly equivalent to static, as far as i remember java
2017-01-08T21:30:48Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-08T21:36:11Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T21:36:59Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-08T21:38:30Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-08T21:44:30Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-08T21:44:35Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2017-01-08T21:44:35Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-08T21:44:35Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2017-01-08T21:44:35Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-08T21:46:29Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-08T21:47:03Z Guest26 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T21:47:51Z pierpa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T21:49:40Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-08T21:51:31Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T21:51:37Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T21:51:52Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-08T21:54:35Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T21:55:13Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-08T21:56:36Z Guest26 quit (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-08T21:57:41Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-08T21:57:49Z antonv joined #lisp
2017-01-08T21:58:06Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T22:01:24Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-08T22:01:25Z antonv: anyone remembers how to get absolute pathname of a file?
2017-01-08T22:01:44Z antonv: the file might be non-existing, so truename doesn't work
2017-01-08T22:02:42Z Guest26 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T22:04:45Z manualcrank quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-08T22:06:31Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-08T22:08:08Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-08T22:11:39Z skeuomorf quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-08T22:12:14Z Guest26 quit (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-08T22:13:46Z Guest26 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T22:14:31Z nullx002- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T22:14:37Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-08T22:15:42Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-08T22:18:03Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-08T22:18:12Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-08T22:18:26Z Xach: antonv: merge-pathnames might help.
2017-01-08T22:19:20Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-08T22:21:55Z antonv: Xach: I don't remember how. Say file name is "file123", how can I get it's absolute path?
2017-01-08T22:22:22Z antonv: This means to get the absolute path of the default-pathname-defaults
2017-01-08T22:23:30Z Xach: antonv: (merge-pathnames "file123") might get an absolute path.
2017-01-08T22:23:49Z Xach: antonv: or (merge-pathnames "file123" (truename *default-pathname-defaults*)) perhaps.
2017-01-08T22:24:28Z antonv: (merge-pathnames "file123" (truename *default-pathname-defaults*))
2017-01-08T22:24:47Z antonv: This works - I found it in quicklisp.lisp
2017-01-08T22:25:03Z antonv: I remember learning some merge-pahtname tricks from quicklisp code, but forgot now what tricks :)
2017-01-08T22:25:15Z antonv: just (merge-pathnames "file123") didn't work on my CCL
2017-01-08T22:25:25Z Warlock_29A quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-08T22:25:28Z himmAllRight quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T22:25:43Z antonv: ok, thanks
2017-01-08T22:27:26Z Xach: so many tricks, so little time
2017-01-08T22:28:12Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T22:28:28Z antonv: yes, yes
2017-01-08T22:28:58Z nullx002- joined #lisp
2017-01-08T22:29:52Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-08T22:29:56Z robotoad quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T22:30:24Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-08T22:32:49Z robotoad quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T22:37:42Z ak5 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T22:39:04Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-08T22:39:05Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2017-01-08T22:39:21Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T22:40:03Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T22:42:40Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-08T22:43:07Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T22:43:16Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-08T22:43:16Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-08T22:45:09Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-08T22:48:39Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-08T22:50:09Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-08T22:52:33Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-08T22:53:48Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-08T22:56:58Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-08T23:00:00Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-08T23:00:11Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-08T23:02:38Z keltvek quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T23:02:43Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T23:05:11Z Jessin joined #lisp
2017-01-08T23:05:58Z Jesin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-08T23:06:50Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-08T23:08:41Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-08T23:08:47Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-08T23:09:16Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-08T23:09:16Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-08T23:10:51Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-08T23:11:25Z Jessin is now known as Jesin
2017-01-08T23:16:20Z reepca joined #lisp
2017-01-08T23:17:47Z meocs quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-08T23:18:31Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-08T23:22:54Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-08T23:23:51Z Guest26 quit (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-08T23:25:31Z ralt quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T23:29:22Z nowhere_man quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-08T23:29:53Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T23:31:21Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-08T23:31:28Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-08T23:33:22Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-08T23:33:23Z Trystam quit (Changing host)
2017-01-08T23:33:23Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-08T23:35:54Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-08T23:36:17Z Trystam is now known as Tristam
2017-01-08T23:36:41Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2017-01-08T23:39:46Z wildlander quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-08T23:51:21Z kokonaisluku joined #lisp
2017-01-08T23:52:08Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-08T23:53:07Z rtmanpages quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-08T23:54:13Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-08T23:59:43Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-09T00:00:02Z wildlander quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-09T00:01:56Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-09T00:02:59Z rtmanpages joined #lisp
2017-01-09T00:03:31Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T00:05:16Z wildlander quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-09T00:06:36Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-09T00:07:49Z Loxxie joined #lisp
2017-01-09T00:10:16Z seg_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T00:10:40Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-09T00:12:50Z McFeatherbottom left #lisp
2017-01-09T00:23:10Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-09T00:23:55Z glenab joined #lisp
2017-01-09T00:26:04Z lisp613 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-09T00:30:14Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T00:30:41Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-09T00:32:05Z malice: How can I check maximum fixnum value in SBCL?
2017-01-09T00:32:09Z malice: (at least my version)
2017-01-09T00:32:54Z Bike: most-positive-fixnum
2017-01-09T00:37:11Z kokonaisluku quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 45.6.0/20161215224443])
2017-01-09T00:38:35Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T00:39:14Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-09T00:40:15Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T00:43:10Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-09T00:45:46Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-09T00:46:01Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-09T00:46:01Z seg_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-09T00:50:12Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-09T00:57:45Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T00:58:11Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T01:00:15Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:03:37Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T01:06:00Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:08:09Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-09T01:12:27Z Intensity quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:27Z foom quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:27Z danieli quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:27Z itruslove quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:27Z cebreidian quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:27Z shikhin quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:27Z askatasuna quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:27Z borodust quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:27Z jibanes quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:27Z gko quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:27Z neuri8 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:27Z grindhold quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:27Z cyberlard quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:27Z whartung quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:28Z Oddity quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:28Z mrSpec quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:28Z emma quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:28Z sepi`` quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:28Z sjohnson quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:28Z arrsim quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:28Z alms_clozure quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:28Z jsnell quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:12:36Z emma joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:12:36Z emma quit (Changing host)
2017-01-09T01:12:36Z emma joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:12:37Z jsnell joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:12:37Z mrSpec` joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:12:41Z danieli_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:12:43Z jibanes joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:12:44Z shikhin joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:12:49Z arrsim joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:12:50Z foom joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:12:50Z whartung joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:12:51Z sepi`` joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:12:55Z cebreidian joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:13:11Z neuri8 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:13:12Z sjohnson joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:13:35Z grindhold joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:13:59Z gko joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:14:05Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:15:25Z itruslove joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:15:48Z Loxxie quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-09T01:16:47Z glenab quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T01:18:35Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:19:09Z alms_clozure joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:19:36Z borodust joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:23:29Z splittist quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:29Z mklk quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:29Z Blukunfando quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:29Z yrdz quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:29Z cpape quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:29Z antoszka quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:30Z dan64- quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:30Z lonjil quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:30Z wooden_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:30Z vibs29 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:30Z Patzy quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:30Z jmasseo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:30Z gbyers quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:30Z Glitchy quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:30Z vsync quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:30Z tanuzzo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:31Z benny quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T01:23:36Z Patzy_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:23:37Z jmasseo joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:23:41Z wooden_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:23:42Z benny joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:23:43Z mklk joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:23:45Z cpape joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:23:45Z dan64 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:23:46Z vsync joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:23:47Z yrdz joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:24:00Z xuxuru quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T01:24:02Z vibs29 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:24:09Z antoszka joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:24:11Z malice: thanks Bike
2017-01-09T01:24:14Z Glitchy joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:24:58Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T01:25:10Z tanuzzo joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:25:51Z trig-ger quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-09T01:27:22Z gbyers joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:27:31Z p_l quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T01:29:01Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:29:20Z p_l joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:29:45Z trig-ger joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:32:41Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:32:55Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:33:04Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T01:38:47Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-09T01:38:50Z splittist joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:38:50Z loke` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T01:39:35Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-09T01:39:44Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:39:55Z loke` joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:40:45Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:46:18Z Oddity joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:46:18Z Oddity quit (Changing host)
2017-01-09T01:46:18Z Oddity joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:49:08Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:50:11Z rvirding quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T01:50:31Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T01:51:51Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T01:53:22Z rvirding joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:53:56Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:53:57Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:54:16Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:54:20Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-09T01:57:45Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-09T01:58:41Z lonjil joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:02:51Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T02:08:59Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-09T02:11:38Z xuxuru quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-09T02:12:37Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:12:40Z NeverDie quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-09T02:12:56Z glamas joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:14:08Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:16:27Z glamas quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-09T02:16:43Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:18:51Z frug72_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T02:19:41Z frug72 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:19:42Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:22:35Z stux|RC joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:27:28Z NeverDie_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:33:56Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-09T02:34:17Z jdz joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:34:49Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-09T02:41:19Z arpunk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T02:41:35Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:42:21Z rvirding quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T02:42:24Z benny quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T02:42:47Z drmeister quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T02:42:49Z Fare: Any young lisper around? ASDF could use new developers and future maintainers...
2017-01-09T02:42:49Z gendl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T02:42:50Z tobel quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T02:42:50Z NhanH quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T02:42:51Z rvirding joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:42:52Z MorTal1ty quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T02:42:54Z nicdev` joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:42:59Z arpunk joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:43:08Z Fare: rvirding, hi!
2017-01-09T02:43:31Z fe[nl]ix quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-09T02:43:33Z tobel joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:43:33Z gendl joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:43:36Z mindCrime quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-09T02:43:58Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:44:01Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:44:17Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T02:44:35Z MorTal1ty joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:44:42Z Hoolootwo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T02:44:42Z Tetsuo[m] quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T02:44:43Z M-moredhel quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T02:44:44Z nicdev quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T02:44:45Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:45:05Z Omarnem0[m] quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T02:45:05Z RichardPaulBck[m quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T02:45:15Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:45:21Z antonv: how to inspect a LET variable in slime debugger?
2017-01-09T02:45:23Z antonv: (let ((read-val 123)
2017-01-09T02:45:23Z antonv:       (rand-val 124))
2017-01-09T02:45:23Z antonv:   (assert (= rand-val read-val)))
2017-01-09T02:45:28Z benny joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:45:34Z antonv: when it fails, I want to check read-val and rand-val
2017-01-09T02:45:42Z Hoolootwo joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:47:35Z RichardPaulBck[m joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:47:39Z M-moredhel joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:48:02Z Tetsuo[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:48:08Z Omarnem0[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:48:13Z stux|RC-only quit (Quit: Aloha!)
2017-01-09T02:49:31Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T02:51:13Z NhanH joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:55:51Z rotty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T02:58:03Z Xach: antonv: move to the frame and hit "t" to show what variables are available
2017-01-09T02:58:14Z Xach: antonv: if too few, recompile with high debug, perhaps with C-u C-c C-c or similar
2017-01-09T02:58:52Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-09T02:59:10Z rotty joined #lisp
2017-01-09T02:59:23Z Fare: antonv: assert has more arguments
2017-01-09T03:00:39Z antonv: Fare: Xach, thanks
2017-01-09T03:00:58Z antonv: Fare: I'm using more arguments to assert, but see very strange output
2017-01-09T03:01:04Z Fare: Xach: what were the remaining issues if any preventing quicklisp to upgrade from asdf 2.26 ?
2017-01-09T03:01:18Z antonv: (assert (= rand-val read-val)
2017-01-09T03:01:18Z antonv:                      nil
2017-01-09T03:01:18Z antonv:                      "rand-val: ~A, read-val: ~A" rand-val read-val)
2017-01-09T03:01:23Z antonv: when fails, it prints
2017-01-09T03:01:44Z Fare: instead of nil, try (rand-val read-val)
2017-01-09T03:02:30Z antonv: it prints the same digits: "rand-val: 3808526385822096347, read-val: 3808526385822096347"
2017-01-09T03:05:39Z gz_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T03:05:58Z gz_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T03:07:11Z M-Illandan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T03:08:00Z antonv: Fare: what do you think about shipping asdf3 in Quicklisp as all other libraries
2017-01-09T03:08:03Z M-Illandan joined #lisp
2017-01-09T03:08:14Z antonv: so that I do (ql:quickload "asdf3") and get the most recent version?
2017-01-09T03:08:45Z Xach: Fare: I am content to let implementations lead the way.
2017-01-09T03:13:14Z antonv: Xach: how about adding "asdf3" as a library to Quicklisp?
2017-01-09T03:13:36Z antonv: to have it available as any other project (ql:quickload "asdf3")
2017-01-09T03:15:57Z antonv: IMHO, the most convenient way is to let user choose what ASDF to use
2017-01-09T03:16:37Z Fare: Xach: you could at least ship 3.1.2 or something compatible with cffi.
2017-01-09T03:16:59Z Fare: modern cffi will have serious issues with something older than asdf 3.1.2
2017-01-09T03:17:32Z Fare: shipping asdf 2.26 is more of a liability than asset
2017-01-09T03:18:04Z Fare: considering that all maintained implementations now ship asdf 3.1.2 or later, I'm not too worried, though
2017-01-09T03:18:55Z Fare: antonv, equality on floating point numbers can be "interesting"
2017-01-09T03:19:13Z antonv: Fare: they are integers
2017-01-09T03:20:37Z antonv: I have inspected them in debugger, very strange http://paste.lisp.org/display/336108
2017-01-09T03:21:31Z antonv: the same binary representation
2017-01-09T03:21:50Z antonv: but one has Integer-length: 64 and another has  Integer-length: 62
2017-01-09T03:21:55Z Fare: ?
2017-01-09T03:22:09Z antonv: 1.3031899E+19 vs  3.8085263E+18
2017-01-09T03:22:38Z Fare: antonv, oh, might it be an issue with fixnum vs (unsigned-byte 64) representation selection?
2017-01-09T03:23:43Z antonv: difficult to say
2017-01-09T03:24:07Z antonv: strange that = fails for them
2017-01-09T03:24:14Z Fare: a different version of the compiler and/or of optimize settings might make the bug disappear
2017-01-09T03:24:24Z Fare: who is "them"?
2017-01-09T03:24:46Z antonv: CCL, 32 bit
2017-01-09T03:24:46Z Fare: Xach: if you stopped shipping asdf at all, that would be good, too
2017-01-09T03:25:02Z antonv: default compilation settings
2017-01-09T03:25:10Z antonv: That's how I reproduce the failure:
2017-01-09T03:25:11Z antonv: (dotimes (i 100000)
2017-01-09T03:25:11Z antonv:   (let* ((rand-val (random #.(1- (expt 2 64)) *rnd-state*))
2017-01-09T03:25:11Z antonv:          (read-val (read-from-string (with-output-to-string (o)
2017-01-09T03:25:14Z antonv:                                        (pprint rand-val o)))))
2017-01-09T03:25:17Z antonv:     (assert (= rand-val read-val)
2017-01-09T03:25:20Z antonv:             nil
2017-01-09T03:25:23Z antonv:             "rand-val: ~S, read-val: ~S" rand-val read-val)))
2017-01-09T03:25:27Z antonv:  
2017-01-09T03:28:14Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-09T03:29:54Z antonv: if shipping ASDF as a library, we can have it updated every month
2017-01-09T03:29:59Z Bike: see it here too. how bizarre.
2017-01-09T03:30:34Z antonv: Bike: what lisp implementation?
2017-01-09T03:30:47Z Bike: ccl 32 bit like you said. no error on 64 bit sbcl or ccl.
2017-01-09T03:31:40Z antonv: yes
2017-01-09T03:32:17Z Fare: antonv, asdf has to be loaded earlier than the rest, especially since quicklisp will patch and/or configure it, which may be lost on an upgrade.
2017-01-09T03:33:03Z antonv: Fare: as I know quicklisp doesn't patch it. Configuration doesn't survive upgrade?
2017-01-09T03:33:55Z Fare: antonv, depends what configuration, and upgrading from which version.
2017-01-09T03:34:02Z Fare: It's not guaranteed to survive upgrade.
2017-01-09T03:34:06Z Fare: in general
2017-01-09T03:34:47Z Fare: and btw, NOTHING survives an upgrade from asdf2 (including 2.26) to asdf3
2017-01-09T03:34:59Z Fare: so shipping asdf 2.26 is worse than useless.
2017-01-09T03:36:35Z Bike: works in the repl. maybe it's some kind of misoptimization.
2017-01-09T03:38:31Z bounb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-09T03:41:05Z bounb joined #lisp
2017-01-09T03:41:05Z bounb quit (Changing host)
2017-01-09T03:41:05Z bounb joined #lisp
2017-01-09T03:42:34Z antonv: Bike: in repl versus slime?
2017-01-09T03:42:53Z Bike: i mean just doing the equality in the repl goes fine
2017-01-09T03:42:58Z antonv: Bike: it doesn't fail 100% of times, repeate several times
2017-01-09T03:43:13Z antonv: a, you mean when using literals?
2017-01-09T03:43:19Z Bike: yes
2017-01-09T03:43:35Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T03:45:29Z antonv: Bike: it fails when one value is computed by randon and another is produced by read
2017-01-09T03:45:42Z Bike: not for me
2017-01-09T03:45:46Z antonv: when we use literals, both values are produced by read
2017-01-09T03:46:20Z antonv: Bike: how not for you? I thought you reproduced it
2017-01-09T03:46:52Z Bike: with literals, i meant
2017-01-09T03:46:57Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-09T03:47:44Z antonv: yes and I explain that it fails when it's not literals; when one value is produced by cl:random
2017-01-09T03:47:49Z xuxuru quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-09T03:47:52Z antonv: instead of being read by lisp reader from REPL
2017-01-09T03:50:15Z Bike: arithmetic seems to fix it too
2017-01-09T03:50:37Z Bike: er, this makes no sense actually
2017-01-09T03:51:20Z antonv: I emailed openmcl-devel
2017-01-09T03:58:39Z Intensity joined #lisp
2017-01-09T04:03:14Z Mynock^_^ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T04:03:36Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T04:04:16Z coyo joined #lisp
2017-01-09T04:04:16Z coyo quit (Changing host)
2017-01-09T04:04:16Z coyo joined #lisp
2017-01-09T04:05:13Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T04:30:31Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T04:31:44Z stardiviner quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-09T04:38:06Z NeverDie_ is now known as NeverDie
2017-01-09T04:38:29Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2017-01-09T04:40:17Z drmeister joined #lisp
2017-01-09T04:42:39Z xrash joined #lisp
2017-01-09T04:46:31Z gabiruh quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T04:49:59Z gabiruh joined #lisp
2017-01-09T04:52:10Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T04:58:35Z Mynock^_^ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-09T05:02:42Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-09T05:05:39Z xrash joined #lisp
2017-01-09T05:06:36Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-09T05:17:37Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T05:19:40Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-09T05:25:43Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-09T05:28:06Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-09T05:28:26Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-09T05:34:39Z IdentifierH joined #lisp
2017-01-09T05:34:51Z IdentifierH left #lisp
2017-01-09T05:36:22Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-09T05:36:41Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T05:52:37Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T05:54:55Z Xal joined #lisp
2017-01-09T05:55:35Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-09T05:56:58Z axion: Morning, beach.
2017-01-09T05:57:48Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-09T05:58:21Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-09T06:00:27Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-09T06:01:02Z rogersm quit (Quit: rogersm)
2017-01-09T06:02:09Z devon quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-09T06:07:15Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-09T06:12:31Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-09T06:16:31Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-09T06:16:42Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-09T06:20:41Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-09T06:24:18Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-09T06:37:21Z sword quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-09T06:40:33Z Xal quit (Quit: Quitting)
2017-01-09T06:46:00Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-09T06:46:03Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-09T06:51:33Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T06:53:56Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T06:54:33Z scymtym quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T06:58:26Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-09T06:59:39Z jackdaniel: good morning
2017-01-09T07:05:03Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-09T07:06:39Z rvirding: Fare hi
2017-01-09T07:15:43Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T07:18:48Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-09T07:21:28Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-09T07:23:12Z nrp3c quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-09T07:24:16Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T07:26:31Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-09T07:28:17Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-09T07:39:10Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-09T07:39:55Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-09T07:41:23Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-09T07:41:53Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-09T07:44:05Z loke` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T07:44:05Z loke`` joined #lisp
2017-01-09T07:44:31Z Zhivago quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T07:45:10Z mikaelj joined #lisp
2017-01-09T07:51:45Z krasnal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T07:54:31Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-09T07:55:55Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T07:59:43Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-09T07:59:51Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T08:00:58Z glenab joined #lisp
2017-01-09T08:02:09Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-09T08:03:12Z multiplemedal joined #lisp
2017-01-09T08:05:11Z glenab quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T08:07:51Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2017-01-09T08:09:25Z multiplemedal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T08:10:31Z d4ryus4 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T08:15:10Z azzamsa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T08:16:12Z multiplemedal joined #lisp
2017-01-09T08:18:49Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-09T08:28:09Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-09T08:29:21Z o1e9 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T08:32:40Z Guest26 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T08:34:58Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-09T08:35:51Z jdz: Hello rvirding!
2017-01-09T08:37:54Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-09T08:39:23Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-09T08:40:14Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-09T08:41:51Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T08:43:59Z Guest26 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T08:47:53Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-09T08:50:07Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-09T08:56:37Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T08:56:49Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-09T09:00:30Z pmicossi joined #lisp
2017-01-09T09:01:06Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T09:02:35Z Bike quit (Quit: sleep, later)
2017-01-09T09:03:56Z kolko quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-09T09:05:02Z hjudt quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-09T09:05:50Z hjudt joined #lisp
2017-01-09T09:06:02Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T09:06:17Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-09T09:07:19Z ski_ is now known as ski
2017-01-09T09:08:03Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-09T09:09:59Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-09T09:11:45Z seg_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T09:13:05Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T09:24:31Z joshe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T09:29:38Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-09T09:33:01Z tetero joined #lisp
2017-01-09T09:35:24Z tetero: Morning! Why does (type-of ()) ==> NULL instead of nil, and why does both NULL and nil exist?
2017-01-09T09:35:50Z tetero: is it that NULL is the type of nil?
2017-01-09T09:36:33Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-09T09:37:26Z tetero: (type-of t) ==> BOOLEAN which I'd expect (type-of nil) to do as well, but (type-of nil) ==> NULL as above
2017-01-09T09:38:59Z jdz: (typep nil 'boolean) => T
2017-01-09T09:39:48Z jdz: (subtypep 'null 'boolean) => T, T
2017-01-09T09:40:00Z HeyFlash joined #lisp
2017-01-09T09:40:03Z beach: tetero: Yes, the type of NIL is NULL.
2017-01-09T09:40:15Z beach: tetero: The type NIL is the type that contains no objects.
2017-01-09T09:41:37Z Zhivago joined #lisp
2017-01-09T09:41:43Z tetero: Hmm
2017-01-09T09:42:02Z beach: The type of an object is not necessarily unique.
2017-01-09T09:42:17Z tetero: I still don't understand why (type-of nil) ==> NULL instead of BOOLEAN
2017-01-09T09:42:54Z jackdaniel: tetero: try (typep nil 'boolean)
2017-01-09T09:43:03Z beach: clhs type-of
2017-01-09T09:43:03Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_tp_of.htm
2017-01-09T09:43:18Z jackdaniel: something may be for instance a float, but its type is also a number
2017-01-09T09:43:27Z jackdaniel: the most specific type is float though
2017-01-09T09:44:12Z tetero: jackdaniel: Yeah that I understand
2017-01-09T09:44:14Z beach: tetero: As you can see from that page, the implementation has some freedom in what is returned by TYPE-OF.
2017-01-09T09:45:39Z tetero: beach: Ah. I was thinking that it might be something in the lines of, since everything in common lisp is true except nil, it'd make sense that type-of nil ==> NULL and not BOOLEAN in some way
2017-01-09T09:46:17Z beach: NIL is of type Boolean as well, but the implementation can choose what it wants to return.
2017-01-09T09:46:18Z tetero: I'm still learning and I still haven't wrapped my head around the language
2017-01-09T09:46:37Z beach: NIL is also of type LIST.
2017-01-09T09:46:41Z tetero: beach: Ah. Yeah
2017-01-09T09:47:05Z beach: ... and SYMBOL.
2017-01-09T09:47:14Z tetero: beach: Really? I know () was equivalent to NIL but I didn't know that NIL was equivalent to (). Although that makes sense I suppose
2017-01-09T09:47:40Z beach: Er, equivalence is commutative.
2017-01-09T09:47:53Z beach: When the reader sees () it returns the symbol NIL.
2017-01-09T09:48:03Z jackdaniel: tetero: Common Lisp has two independent concepts – classes and types, the former has somewhat clear semantics, while the latter may be even undecidable for an object
2017-01-09T09:48:26Z jackdaniel: (to determine, if the object is of some type)
2017-01-09T09:48:27Z beach: jackdaniel: Not "undecidable".
2017-01-09T09:48:34Z tetero: jackdaniel: Oh.
2017-01-09T09:48:42Z jackdaniel: because you may put arbitrary predicate for a type
2017-01-09T09:48:46Z jackdaniel: beach: what do you mean?
2017-01-09T09:48:56Z beach: jackdaniel: "undecidable" means something very specific in computer science.
2017-01-09T09:50:08Z tetero: It came up while doing lisp-koans which was recommended here. I really enjoy it
2017-01-09T09:50:23Z rjid left #lisp
2017-01-09T09:50:25Z jackdaniel: if you may have arbitrary predicate for a type, you may define a type in terms of undecidable problem, no?
2017-01-09T09:50:32Z beach: jackdaniel: OK, I agree, it is undecidable whether X is of some type.
2017-01-09T09:50:49Z beach: jackdaniel: But it is always possible to come up with SOME type for any object.
2017-01-09T09:51:03Z jackdaniel: yes, I agree with that :)
2017-01-09T09:51:07Z beach: OK, good.
2017-01-09T09:51:14Z jackdaniel: everything is a subtype of T in a first place
2017-01-09T09:51:20Z beach: Indeed.
2017-01-09T09:52:33Z beach: tetero: Try (read-from-string "()") and you will see that the reader returns NIL.
2017-01-09T09:54:01Z tetero: One thing I've noticed so far (coming from Java originally) is that when lisp-koans challenged me to write a function for something I am often first trying to write it as I would in an imperative language. The second or third attempt is usually better lisp-approaches
2017-01-09T09:54:35Z tetero: beach: It returns NIL 2 :)
2017-01-09T09:54:37Z beach: tetero: Common Lisp is an imperative language.
2017-01-09T09:54:51Z beach: [among other paradigms]
2017-01-09T09:55:46Z tetero: beach: That I know. But my point is that I was limiting myself to the approach I would in my previous language in a language that offers more flexibility in doing it better in another way
2017-01-09T09:55:50Z beach: tetero: It is also object oriented.  CLOS is one of the most powerful object systems around.
2017-01-09T09:56:09Z beach: tetero: I see.
2017-01-09T09:56:11Z tetero: beach: I haven't gotten to the part of learning about CLOS yet
2017-01-09T09:56:47Z beach: tetero: Do you have a Common Lisp implementation installed already?
2017-01-09T09:56:56Z tetero: beach: Yeah. sbcl
2017-01-09T09:57:12Z tetero: beach: I'm reading practical common lisp and doing lisp-koans
2017-01-09T09:57:14Z beach: tetero: The usual recommendation here is to use Quicklisp to install SLIME.
2017-01-09T09:57:21Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T09:57:28Z tetero: Aye. quicklisp/slime/emacs
2017-01-09T09:57:29Z groovy2shoes joined #lisp
2017-01-09T09:57:50Z beach: ... and to use the SLIME contribution SLIME-INDENTATION to get the indentation right.
2017-01-09T09:57:51Z tetero: I'm just using vim at the moment as I'm just doing koans and some small learning-projects still
2017-01-09T09:58:06Z beach: OK.
2017-01-09T09:58:22Z tetero: I just set the indentation in the vimrc
2017-01-09T09:58:45Z beach: It is tricky to get it right without SLIME-INDENTATION.
2017-01-09T09:58:51Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-09T09:59:24Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-09T09:59:37Z tetero: beach: How so?
2017-01-09T10:00:12Z beach: Your editor needs to know quite a lot about Common Lisp to get indentation right.
2017-01-09T10:01:27Z beach: Even the normal Lisp mode of Emacs gets it wrong for some things, for example LOOP.
2017-01-09T10:02:03Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-09T10:02:33Z tetero: beach: Yeah when doing certain things like using loop which is like its own little language the indentation can get a bit off with default vim settings. But it's nothing major when doing learning projects
2017-01-09T10:03:16Z tetero: beach: I tend to prefer vim for small learning things and IDE's for larger amounts of code
2017-01-09T10:03:56Z rvirding: Hi jdz
2017-01-09T10:03:57Z jackdaniel: tetero: with CL having good editor integration with language is essential, because you often do a surgery on a living organism of your code
2017-01-09T10:04:17Z jackdaniel: (I mean – you have access to REPL, you may compile code when application is running etc)
2017-01-09T10:04:47Z jackdaniel: so when you change something in your code it is *very* handy to be able to recompile it
2017-01-09T10:05:02Z tetero: jackdaniel: Yeah I'm not saying it isn't. I'm just saying that I don't need it for the level of code I'm writing now while learning (lisp-koans, for example)
2017-01-09T10:05:03Z jackdaniel: and incremental development is very typical for Common Lisp programmers
2017-01-09T10:05:22Z jackdaniel: OK
2017-01-09T10:06:02Z djh: tetero: there are lisp koans? where?
2017-01-09T10:06:15Z jackdaniel: djh: on github
2017-01-09T10:06:17Z jackdaniel: made by google
2017-01-09T10:06:19Z jackdaniel: easy to find
2017-01-09T10:06:25Z djh: cool, ty
2017-01-09T10:06:26Z tetero: jackdaniel: I'm not anti-IDE or anti-emacs or anything like that. I just like vim as a quick-to-edit simple stuff editor that works great for stuff like lisp-koans. I used vim for early java exercises too. When I started doing something more serious I used intellij idea
2017-01-09T10:06:38Z tetero: djh: Do them! They're lots of fun! :)
2017-01-09T10:07:03Z djh: Oh, I shall, I've been looking for useful Lisp exercises
2017-01-09T10:07:11Z jackdaniel: tetero: right, I just wanted to inform you what you miss – since you are aware of that then its OK :)
2017-01-09T10:07:23Z beach: tetero: The reason I insist on indentation is that, whenever you want someone else to read your code, that someone else typically relies on indentation to determine the structure of your code.  And if it is wrong, that person can not trust it, so you basically force him or her to count parentheses, and that is not polite.
2017-01-09T10:08:24Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T10:08:42Z tetero: jackdaniel: Ahh. No, I think IDE's are great when you're coding for real
2017-01-09T10:09:19Z jackdaniel doesn't like IDE's :P
2017-01-09T10:09:31Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-09T10:10:11Z beach: jackdaniel: You don't like the existing ones, or you don't like the very idea of one?
2017-01-09T10:10:21Z ferada left #lisp
2017-01-09T10:10:24Z tetero: beach: vim by default highlights the opening and closing parenthesis so that hasn't been a problem. There's also plugins that rainbow colours it and so forth. The indentation is quite accurate and just messes up occassionally when (for example) using loop. But you just fix that manually
2017-01-09T10:10:55Z jackdaniel: beach: I don't like existing ones, they often get in my way
2017-01-09T10:11:03Z jackdaniel: instead of simplifying things
2017-01-09T10:11:04Z jackdaniel: brb
2017-01-09T10:11:21Z tetero: beach: Then you can of course add a bunch of plugins to vim to make it into more of an IDE. I'm pretty sure Emacs has an edge to that when it comes to Lisp though.
2017-01-09T10:12:26Z Cymew: Now I'm also kind of curious about these koans
2017-01-09T10:13:23Z Patzy_ is now known as Patzy
2017-01-09T10:13:56Z tetero: beach: In vim if your cur is on a closing parenthesis the opening parenthesis for it is highlighted, if you have one too many closing parenthesis it'll be highlighted in red and so forth. Without any additional plugins, so it's not that bad
2017-01-09T10:14:46Z beach: tetero: I believe you.  I am just telling you what to expect if you submit badly indented code for others to read.
2017-01-09T10:16:12Z tetero: beach: Ah. I'm not at that point yet. But I fix the indentation when vim doesn't automatically does it. After I learn more I'm most likely going to go for ql + slime + emacs
2017-01-09T10:17:06Z tetero: beach: But for stuff like lisp-koans I think vim is great. Even screwing up things that the IDE would've pointed out is a learning experience
2017-01-09T10:19:44Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-09T10:27:20Z easye` quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-09T10:27:39Z easye joined #lisp
2017-01-09T10:33:54Z tetero: beach: But you know that there are slime integrations (and a bunch of plugs for all kinds of things) for vim right? In the case of lisp I'm sure emacs is better, but a lot of people just think that vim isn't very powerful
2017-01-09T10:37:24Z beach: tetero: I have no opinion about the power of vim.  I used vi briefly in 1983 before there was a version of Emacs on the Unix system I was using then.  I haven't used it or its successors since then.
2017-01-09T10:37:51Z seg_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T10:37:52Z pchrist_ is now known as pchrist
2017-01-09T10:38:16Z tetero: beach: Ah. Things have changed a bit from the days of vi :)
2017-01-09T10:39:20Z beach: tetero: I try my best not to have an opinion about things I know next to nothing about.
2017-01-09T10:39:41Z tetero: beach: That's not a bad philosophy
2017-01-09T10:39:44Z beach: ... which doesn't seem to be the case for some other people.
2017-01-09T10:39:57Z tetero: I have noticed that ^^
2017-01-09T10:40:25Z beach: Here in #lisp, we get more than our share of them. :)
2017-01-09T10:40:49Z tetero: beach: I also don't fanboi things so I never cared about the whole vim vs emacs things or any other OS politics. I just use what I like when I like it for what I like it when I feel like it
2017-01-09T10:40:52Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-09T10:43:32Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-09T10:45:34Z ioa joined #lisp
2017-01-09T10:46:05Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T10:48:02Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-09T10:49:12Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2017-01-09T10:49:36Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-09T10:50:15Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-09T10:51:49Z flip214: tetero: do you know about the slimv plugin for vim?
2017-01-09T10:53:36Z tetero: flip214: I know -of- it, but I haven't installed it yet
2017-01-09T10:54:05Z djh is a vim user, has tried various ways to do vi-and-slime and not found any to be usable
2017-01-09T10:54:18Z tetero: flip214: I'm changing from vundle to plug and I've yet to update my config
2017-01-09T10:54:50Z tetero: djh: As I said earlier. Emacs probably has the edge to vim when it comes to lisp and that stuff
2017-01-09T10:55:00Z djh: yep, can't argue that
2017-01-09T10:55:45Z pacon joined #lisp
2017-01-09T10:55:56Z tetero: Personally I view vim more as a powerful editor rather than an IDE. Even though you can transform it into one
2017-01-09T10:56:40Z tetero: If I want to quick-edit any text file I usually opt for vim. It probably wouldn't be my first choice for some big coding project
2017-01-09T10:57:35Z tetero: I view emacs as an IDE. Personally I wouldn't reach for it to quickly change a setting in a simple text file
2017-01-09T10:58:05Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T10:58:11Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T11:00:16Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-09T11:00:20Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T11:01:03Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-09T11:01:40Z Zhivago quit (Changing host)
2017-01-09T11:01:40Z Zhivago joined #lisp
2017-01-09T11:02:41Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-09T11:04:07Z dmaj joined #lisp
2017-01-09T11:05:29Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-09T11:06:50Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-09T11:08:42Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T11:17:07Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T11:19:37Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-09T11:20:39Z seg_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T11:22:26Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-09T11:24:11Z rtmanpages quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-09T11:26:35Z tetero quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-09T11:26:46Z seg_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T11:33:11Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-09T11:40:00Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-09T11:40:53Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-09T11:42:29Z ryanbw quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T11:42:35Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-09T11:50:04Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-09T11:52:49Z glenab joined #lisp
2017-01-09T11:53:46Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-09T11:57:06Z glenab quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-09T12:00:58Z otwieracz: I need to access curent backtrace - how to do this properly?
2017-01-09T12:01:15Z himmAllRight quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-09T12:01:20Z Xach: otwieracz: trivial-backtrace is one easy way
2017-01-09T12:02:29Z otwieracz: Thank you!
2017-01-09T12:02:41Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-09T12:10:32Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-09T12:15:31Z plertrood joined #lisp
2017-01-09T12:17:21Z Guest-ru joined #lisp
2017-01-09T12:17:46Z Guest-ru is now known as Bourne
2017-01-09T12:20:26Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-09T12:21:59Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-09T12:29:38Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T12:38:05Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T12:38:58Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-09T12:41:05Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T12:45:55Z ak5 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T12:46:14Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T12:53:07Z dmaj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T12:59:43Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:00:48Z Amplituhedron quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T13:02:05Z XdilaudidX joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:03:11Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T13:03:22Z XdilaudidX: Hey guys, anyone got sources for semi decent lisp basic system software that'll run in genera?
2017-01-09T13:04:05Z XdilaudidX: I'm coding something like a Genera distro, with everything you need.
2017-01-09T13:04:08Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T13:04:16Z freehck joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:04:31Z XdilaudidX: A calculator, some point and click games, etc
2017-01-09T13:05:30Z XdilaudidX: Even got an irc client going
2017-01-09T13:06:41Z Cymew: Not sure what you are asking about.
2017-01-09T13:07:08Z Cymew: You mean Genera like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genera_(operating_system)?
2017-01-09T13:07:25Z Cymew: In that case you might want to look at https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano
2017-01-09T13:08:00Z ecraven: XdilaudidX: in genera, *everything* is lisp
2017-01-09T13:09:06Z XdilaudidX: I know everything is lisp!  It's nice and elegant, I'm just trying to bring it a bit up to date.
2017-01-09T13:09:35Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:09:36Z XdilaudidX: I wrote an IRC client for it, a calculator...
2017-01-09T13:10:02Z ecraven: are you talking about Open Genera?
2017-01-09T13:10:11Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T13:10:19Z XdilaudidX: Yes, Open Genera
2017-01-09T13:11:32Z XdilaudidX: I wish I had some of the Symbolics backup tapes
2017-01-09T13:11:36Z ak5 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T13:11:55Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:12:02Z Cymew: Developing for Open Genera these days are not optimal if you want to share your code. It's not exactly widely available.
2017-01-09T13:12:03Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:12:13Z XdilaudidX: Someone wrote a Windows like GUI for it called Jinn
2017-01-09T13:12:25Z XdilaudidX: Oh it's on archive.org
2017-01-09T13:12:39Z Cymew: Jinn?
2017-01-09T13:13:11Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T13:13:42Z XdilaudidX: And I've been legally advised to release it even more widely, because apparently the putative copyright holder hasn't got a leg to stand on.
2017-01-09T13:13:48Z multiplemedal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T13:14:33Z Cymew: Good luck.
2017-01-09T13:15:00Z XdilaudidX: The code, legally speaking, belongs to nobody.  Not M., not DKS, nobody at all.
2017-01-09T13:15:07Z XdilaudidX: Op
2017-01-09T13:16:15Z Cymew: If you want to do system development style things in cl and be able to share the code and have a solid legal ground without going through potential court battes, I'd look at Mezzano. But, I'm no lawyers, and not interested to dive into that morass.
2017-01-09T13:16:25Z XdilaudidX: Yeah thanks.  At least my IRC client for opengenera 3.0 actually works.
2017-01-09T13:16:45Z Cymew: That's good.
2017-01-09T13:17:35Z XdilaudidX: Mezzano is too slow and clunky for my taste, although I've told froggey and a couple others they could have my calculator.
2017-01-09T13:18:23Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-09T13:18:38Z Guest82 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:18:40Z XdilaudidX: The irc thing too, although I wrote that after my conversation
2017-01-09T13:19:04Z Cymew: Well, it's not exactly "enterprise ready", no.
2017-01-09T13:19:18Z ecraven: how can the code belong to no one? shouldn't someone have "inherited" it?
2017-01-09T13:19:51Z Cymew: If Mezzano had as many hackers pound on it as Genera had, it would probably be a lot slicker.
2017-01-09T13:21:28Z dlowe: paid full-time hackers
2017-01-09T13:21:32Z dlowe: from MIT
2017-01-09T13:22:55Z Cymew: If I won a big lottery, I'd spend some time on it myself. Not sure it would help much, as I'm not great, and I don't buy many lottery tickets. ;)
2017-01-09T13:23:30Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-09T13:24:06Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:28:56Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:28:56Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-09T13:28:56Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:30:38Z multiplemedal joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:31:00Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:31:35Z Guest82 quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-09T13:45:38Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:48:06Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-09T13:49:06Z Guest82 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:56:39Z ebrasca quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-09T13:57:33Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:57:41Z foobar_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T13:58:42Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-09T13:58:57Z foobar_: hello do lisp programs stick to not more than 80 columns wide ?
2017-01-09T14:00:57Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T14:01:25Z shymega quit (Quit: So long, and thanks for all the talking doors.)
2017-01-09T14:01:41Z beach: foobar_: There is no such rule.
2017-01-09T14:02:16Z shymega joined #lisp
2017-01-09T14:02:18Z beach: foobar_: I personally try to limit the width to 80 columns or so, but that is because of the kind of monitor I have, and the fact that I like to split the screen in two vertically.
2017-01-09T14:02:46Z foobar_: beach: ah i work with horizontal split so i was wondering
2017-01-09T14:03:07Z jackdaniel: I try to limit lines to 80 (to keep 3 columns horizontally)
2017-01-09T14:03:22Z beach: I want to be able to see as many lines as possible, hence the vertical split.
2017-01-09T14:03:26Z dlowe: My personal limit is 100
2017-01-09T14:03:41Z dlowe: with a soft limit of around 80
2017-01-09T14:03:53Z foobar_: sometimes it seems difficult to limit to 80 because of indentation
2017-01-09T14:04:07Z dlowe: Linus's answer to that is that you're using too much indentation
2017-01-09T14:04:07Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-09T14:04:12Z beach: foobar_: Indeed.  Using LET* helps.
2017-01-09T14:04:13Z dlowe: and need to break it up into functions
2017-01-09T14:04:30Z beach: ... and that.
2017-01-09T14:04:43Z foobar_: well everytime i use nested loops it becomes more than 100
2017-01-09T14:05:12Z Cymew: Sounds like you need more line breaks. ;)
2017-01-09T14:05:37Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-09T14:05:55Z foobar_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336149
2017-01-09T14:06:01Z foobar_: looks ugly :/
2017-01-09T14:06:10Z loke: Lisp code with only 80 chars width is unbearable.
2017-01-09T14:06:44Z loke: I used to stick with 80 chars, and then I realised that id had been 10 years since i had even seen a glass terminal, so I figured it was time to ditch that standard.
2017-01-09T14:07:21Z ioa left #lisp
2017-01-09T14:07:51Z beach: foobar_: You could probably turn the inner loop into another macro.
2017-01-09T14:09:45Z Devon joined #lisp
2017-01-09T14:09:45Z Cymew: I tend to align AND sexps vertically, which would narrow it down a bit. Doesn't look excessive otherwise.
2017-01-09T14:11:30Z foobar_: beach: i am not sure
2017-01-09T14:11:55Z foobar_: besides i am only using a macro for conditional codegen
2017-01-09T14:12:31Z tanuzzo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T14:12:57Z beach: Why is this a macro in the first place?
2017-01-09T14:13:13Z beach: It looks like it ought to be a function.
2017-01-09T14:13:21Z beach: And it looks like the inner loop could be a function too.
2017-01-09T14:13:33Z foobar_: i didn't want to check cv1 cv2
2017-01-09T14:13:58Z beach: ?
2017-01-09T14:14:21Z foobar_: there are 2 functions solve1 with no optional and solve2 with both cv1 and cv2
2017-01-09T14:14:31Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T14:14:47Z foobar_: but i didn't want to check for non nil cv1 cv2 for solve1
2017-01-09T14:15:56Z foobar_: it's like cpp template with a bool variable to generate 2 versions of the same function
2017-01-09T14:16:25Z dlowe: loke: it predates glass terminals by a bit :) The standard IBM punch card is 80 bytes wide.
2017-01-09T14:17:21Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-09T14:17:53Z beach: foobar_: I think you have a violation of the standard in there.  As I recall there is a general rule that you can't mess with the contents of the hash table while you are iterating over its elements.
2017-01-09T14:18:26Z foobar_: pretty sure i can delete the one i am currently iterating now
2017-01-09T14:18:47Z beach: You are right.  I didn't look carefully enough.
2017-01-09T14:20:58Z beach: Anyway, I think you can easily break this macro into several if you do want to limit the line length.
2017-01-09T14:21:16Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T14:22:53Z foobar_: probably can make the inner loop into a flet function
2017-01-09T14:23:25Z beach: Or just turn it into a macro called like this: (solve-aux ,cv1 ,cv2)
2017-01-09T14:23:46Z beach: The body of the macro solve-aux would just be the inner loop.
2017-01-09T14:24:11Z TMA: and the code should be in columns 7 to 72 IIRC. even the 80 is way too optimistic
2017-01-09T14:24:40Z foobar_: beach: right
2017-01-09T14:25:33Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-09T14:25:44Z megachomba joined #lisp
2017-01-09T14:25:52Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T14:26:30Z megachomba: hi im searching someone experienced in lisp for solve some problems of my exam. im whiling to pay if needed! anyone?
2017-01-09T14:26:48Z Devon: lol
2017-01-09T14:27:09Z beach: I should hope not.
2017-01-09T14:27:12Z Devon: shouldn't you be asking at plagiarism.com instead?
2017-01-09T14:27:37Z megachomba: well, nothing wrong in asking for help
2017-01-09T14:27:50Z Devon: in committing a crime
2017-01-09T14:28:05Z Devon: My advice to you is, don't rob that bank
2017-01-09T14:28:16Z foobar_: XD
2017-01-09T14:28:41Z foobar_: megachomba: you sound like a troll
2017-01-09T14:28:55Z foobar_: megachomba: you would get insta banned in ##c
2017-01-09T14:29:14Z megachomba: not robbing to the bank. i have lisp questions that i dont know to answer myself, im pretty sure those questions will be in tomorow exam, but i have no clue on how to answer them myself.
2017-01-09T14:30:31Z megachomba: as it takes a bit of time, im wiling to pay for people time that could help me out
2017-01-09T14:30:35Z Devon: Ask your classmates - oh wait, you're an avatar for the plagiarists' fund
2017-01-09T14:31:05Z Devon: Ok, but only with a note from your professor
2017-01-09T14:31:19Z joshe joined #lisp
2017-01-09T14:31:48Z joshe left #lisp
2017-01-09T14:31:53Z flip214: megachomba: it might have gone better if you'd just asked one question after another here, without all the explanations ;)
2017-01-09T14:32:10Z megachomba: i can try to
2017-01-09T14:37:33Z sjl: Suppose I've got a list like (1 2 3 :no-separator 4).
2017-01-09T14:37:35Z sjl: I want to add a separator element between each element, EXCEPT where :no-separator appears.
2017-01-09T14:37:37Z sjl: So for (1 2 3 :no-separator 4) I'd want to get (1 sep 2 sep 3 4).
2017-01-09T14:37:39Z sjl: Is there an elegant way to do this?  I've got a nasty (iterate) form but would like something prettier...
2017-01-09T14:38:10Z flip214: sjl: insert everywhere, and split sequences :no-sep sep :no-sep out?
2017-01-09T14:38:20Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-09T14:38:28Z flip214: and with iterate and PREVIOUS it shouldn't be _that_ nasty, is it?
2017-01-09T14:38:57Z sjl: nasty version: http://paste.stevelosh.com/5873a07955f4c000082b7b9e
2017-01-09T14:39:16Z sjl: :. is the "no-separator marker" and a string space is the separator, in my case
2017-01-09T14:40:10Z sjl: split + reconcat could work
2017-01-09T14:41:30Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-09T14:42:13Z fkac quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T14:42:24Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-09T14:44:12Z foobar_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-09T14:46:56Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-09T14:46:57Z sword joined #lisp
2017-01-09T14:47:40Z XdilaudidX: Hey beach
2017-01-09T14:47:53Z plertrood quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T14:48:04Z XdilaudidX: I got an irc client for lisp written too
2017-01-09T14:49:04Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-09T14:51:58Z XdilaudidX: Anyone use genera or open genera as a semi production environment?
2017-01-09T14:52:29Z XdilaudidX: I've been pounding on it for a bit and the results are starting to feel somewhat usable
2017-01-09T14:52:30Z Xach: sjl: that's not especially nasty.
2017-01-09T14:53:18Z Xach: XdilaudidX: It's pretty expensive, isn't it?
2017-01-09T14:53:22Z Cymew: I actually find it kind of interesting what people consider as basic tools. Way back everyone made their own editor, or their own 'make' replacement. I wonder how many people consider an irc client "basic tools" these days. It is for me, but I wonder how typical I am.
2017-01-09T14:53:47Z dlowe: Cymew: erc is built into emacs now, so at least GNU agrees with you :)
2017-01-09T14:53:59Z XdilaudidX: Well it's expensive if you want to buy it from dks symbolics
2017-01-09T14:53:59Z Cymew: dlowe: Good point. :)
2017-01-09T14:54:18Z Xach: XdilaudidX: Is there another vendor?
2017-01-09T14:54:27Z XdilaudidX: But counsel has advised me that basically nobody holds on to copyright these days
2017-01-09T14:55:03Z Xach: I didn't have that impression.
2017-01-09T14:55:05Z varjag: ..ok
2017-01-09T14:56:34Z XdilaudidX: Essentially, the word Genera is a trademark that passed into the hands of someone I will refer to as M.
2017-01-09T14:56:58Z XdilaudidX: This is after Symbolics CEO died
2017-01-09T14:57:42Z XdilaudidX: M. owns the Symbolics name and logo, the word Genera, etc
2017-01-09T14:57:54Z sjl: slightly less nasty version: http://paste.stevelosh.com/5873a4db55f4c000082b7b9f
2017-01-09T14:58:12Z XdilaudidX: But not the Genera source
2017-01-09T14:58:14Z z0d: XdilaudidX: I think he already stated that he was not interested in open sourcing it
2017-01-09T14:58:28Z Xach: I am not interested in the history, sorry. I was under the impression that it was actively developed and sold, so I am not interested in discussing how to get it without paying.
2017-01-09T14:58:36Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-09T14:59:06Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-09T14:59:17Z z0d: Xach: actively developed? well, I would be very surprised
2017-01-09T14:59:32Z XdilaudidX: How can you open source something you don't legally own?  That's the Manuel Lauro question
2017-01-09T15:00:01Z XdilaudidX: Sold yes, for military and hobbyists.  Actively developed, no.
2017-01-09T15:00:02Z Cymew: Genera being actively developed, that I don't think I've ever heard.
2017-01-09T15:00:33Z Cymew: At least not after Symbolics closed their doors.
2017-01-09T15:00:55Z saturniid joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:00:57Z dyelar joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:00:59Z XdilaudidX: And because of trouble with Symbolics, the Army terminated the contract.
2017-01-09T15:01:23Z malice` joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:01:29Z XdilaudidX: They essentially came to the same conclusion as I did with Dr Lauro
2017-01-09T15:02:20Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-09T15:04:34Z XdilaudidX: I'm trying to do a bit of development on it, while possibly sharing my work with the Lisp community
2017-01-09T15:05:26Z z0d: who owns the copyright then?
2017-01-09T15:05:43Z ecraven: XdilaudidX: why does that guy own everything *but* the source code?
2017-01-09T15:05:46Z XdilaudidX: Nobody does, theoretically.
2017-01-09T15:06:00Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-09T15:06:00Z ecraven: but how did it move from being owned by somebody to being owned by nobody?
2017-01-09T15:06:06Z ecraven: wouldn't someone have to "set it free"?
2017-01-09T15:06:24Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:06:27Z XdilaudidX: Because the previous owner died, is the short story.
2017-01-09T15:06:35Z ecraven: what about his heirs?
2017-01-09T15:06:38Z ecraven: wouldn't they inherit
2017-01-09T15:06:38Z ecraven:  
2017-01-09T15:07:21Z XdilaudidX: No kids.  Mallett was apparently designated to inherit company assets.
2017-01-09T15:07:38Z ecraven: siblings? parents? not sure how inheritance law works in the us
2017-01-09T15:07:49Z stevegt_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-09T15:08:00Z dlowe: ecraven: state by state
2017-01-09T15:10:30Z Guest82 quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-09T15:10:46Z XdilaudidX: This is where the grey area sets in.  It was a corporation whose single shareholder was misspelled.  Somehow, the court couldn't figure out whether the source was an asset or not, because copyright you have to reassert periodically.
2017-01-09T15:11:04Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-09T15:11:53Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:11:56Z XdilaudidX: In other words, if somebody infringes, you have to give them a cease and desist or a DMCA notice.
2017-01-09T15:12:23Z dlowe: You do not have to reassert copyright. It is trademarks that must be asserted.
2017-01-09T15:12:39Z XdilaudidX: Or you have to work on the code.
2017-01-09T15:13:26Z XdilaudidX: Well, in any case, this is what I heard from my lawyer after an investigation that cost me... Five figures is all I'll say.
2017-01-09T15:13:40Z Cymew: Ouch!
2017-01-09T15:13:44Z m00natic` joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:14:10Z XdilaudidX: No worries, I can play with that kind of money.
2017-01-09T15:14:17Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:14:36Z XdilaudidX: I wanted an open source Lisp machine.  I got it.
2017-01-09T15:15:07Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T15:15:32Z Devon: The hacker who seems to hold Symbolics' assets also wrote cl-http, is that still in use?
2017-01-09T15:15:46Z XdilaudidX: It was mostly because the putative copyright holder took pains to hide himself.
2017-01-09T15:16:26Z XdilaudidX: So actually finding that all roads led back to M. was the trouble.
2017-01-09T15:17:04Z Devon: Despite claims that cl-http is available, I was never able to get a copy except by collaring the author in person.
2017-01-09T15:17:43Z XdilaudidX: Jinn, a gui for genera, is also floating out there.
2017-01-09T15:18:20Z XdilaudidX: On one of the Symbolics backup tapes, I think.
2017-01-09T15:18:34Z megachomba quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-09T15:18:55Z ecraven: I only know snap4
2017-01-09T15:18:55Z nisar joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:19:19Z XdilaudidX: Devon do you mean DKS or M.?
2017-01-09T15:19:31Z ecraven: Also, the cadr is open source, isn't it?
2017-01-09T15:19:43Z Devon: I now use LMITI System 130 developed by the bros. Silverman in Canada and RG who initiated the LispM project.
2017-01-09T15:19:57Z Devon: I mean M.
2017-01-09T15:20:34Z _death: sjl: here's a version using MAPCON: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336154
2017-01-09T15:21:02Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:21:11Z _death: eh, unoptimal indentation
2017-01-09T15:21:46Z Quadrescence quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-09T15:22:03Z XdilaudidX: He's talented, that I can say.  Surprised you got more than two words out of him.
2017-01-09T15:22:45Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:23:01Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:23:17Z XdilaudidX: M. had military contracts worth six figures per year.
2017-01-09T15:23:21Z Devon: sjl: Here's another at http://paste.lisp.org/+77DN
2017-01-09T15:23:50Z XdilaudidX: I'm not surprised he's not interested in open sourcing.
2017-01-09T15:24:23Z Devon: XdilaudidX: lol, he's a busy guy but if you know his special passions, he'll give you time.
2017-01-09T15:24:39Z _death: Devon: good ol' trick :)
2017-01-09T15:25:14Z danieli_ is now known as danieli
2017-01-09T15:25:16Z danieli quit (Changing host)
2017-01-09T15:25:16Z danieli joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:25:30Z XdilaudidX: Although the contracts have lapsed for two years now.  I'm curious to know what he's living off of but don't want to feed the lawyer
2017-01-09T15:26:15Z Devon: I'll ask about Genera next time I visit his Lab.
2017-01-09T15:27:18Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-09T15:28:40Z Devon: I have a VirtualBox image running LMITI System 130 which is not nearly as grand as Genera, I just need a QFILE server on a file host to make it useful, that and port the emulator to SDL2 so I can have multiple windows and external copy/paste.
2017-01-09T15:28:47Z XdilaudidX: It's a good system.  I'm trying to keep it alive by writing the necessary application software.
2017-01-09T15:29:35Z m00natic` quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T15:29:35Z attila_lendvai quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-09T15:29:36Z Devon: Does it still overprint when you re-render a decimal number as binary?
2017-01-09T15:29:52Z m00natic` joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:30:27Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-09T15:30:47Z XdilaudidX: Haven't tried it so can't say.  I bet it still would because Genera hasn't been developed since 1995 except for bug fixes
2017-01-09T15:30:56Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:30:56Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-09T15:30:56Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:31:35Z Quadrescence quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T15:31:53Z XdilaudidX: I've mostly been using off the shelf Lisp code and wrapping it in whatever was used to replace Flavours
2017-01-09T15:32:03Z Devon: XdilaudidX: web browsers re-wrap, often rather badly.
2017-01-09T15:32:30Z Devon: Anyone have Flavors in Common Lisp?
2017-01-09T15:32:37Z XdilaudidX: Ouch.  Might try fixing it.
2017-01-09T15:32:50Z XdilaudidX: But it'll be a pain.
2017-01-09T15:32:58Z Devon: That's speed up porting the QFILE server from LispM System 130.
2017-01-09T15:33:07Z XdilaudidX: Still less of a pain than Java
2017-01-09T15:34:20Z XdilaudidX: I tried Java for a few days and gave up.  Haskell is more my bag but it too drives me to drink sometimes
2017-01-09T15:34:53Z Devon: lol (and I only write that when it's true) Haskell is great.
2017-01-09T15:35:32Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-09T15:36:00Z XdilaudidX: I like Haskell.  As for many Brits, it was my first real programming language
2017-01-09T15:36:09Z Devon: How can I prove that no positive integer squared ends in the digits 012?
2017-01-09T15:36:11Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T15:37:04Z XdilaudidX: But because everything is C and Java, I don't consider myself a real programmer.
2017-01-09T15:37:05Z Devon: (oops, wrong window, now all the real hackers are whipping out garlic and crosses)
2017-01-09T15:37:06Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T15:37:09Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-09T15:37:15Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:37:44Z Devon: C and Java are toys!  You need 72-bit words to do anything useful.
2017-01-09T15:38:21Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:38:50Z XdilaudidX: Like I work in Haskell and Lisp.  Exclusively.  Fortran 66 if I absolutely must but I hate it
2017-01-09T15:40:01Z XdilaudidX: If I need something quick and dirty, I try Lisp
2017-01-09T15:40:41Z XdilaudidX: There are the people that laugh at me, and then there are the people that stare bug eyed at the program.
2017-01-09T15:41:25Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:41:40Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T15:41:43Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:42:25Z XdilaudidX: But every time I ask someone what programming language they use at work, they say C or Java.  So I'm feeling left out!
2017-01-09T15:42:46Z Devon: XdilaudidX: Q&D usually means posix for me, awful impedance mismatch with Lisp and CFFI still baffles me.
2017-01-09T15:42:52Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:43:03Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:44:09Z XdilaudidX: I do law, but one of my hall mates at school is a PhD in CS.  I asked him what language he used.
2017-01-09T15:44:30Z XdilaudidX: "Haskell of course!"
2017-01-09T15:44:56Z Devon: XdilaudidX: That Lambda Lisp Machine emulator I'm hacking is in C, it has a reasonable role as portable assembler.
2017-01-09T15:45:39Z nisar quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-09T15:45:44Z XdilaudidX: I can't read C.  The syntax is mind boggling.
2017-01-09T15:45:46Z N3vYn quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2017-01-09T15:45:57Z N3vYn joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:46:05Z beach: XdilaudidX: To get back to the topic of this channel, did you write your programs in Common Lisp and using CLIM (as opposed to Zetalisp and Dynamic Windows) as I recommended?
2017-01-09T15:46:53Z XdilaudidX: Yes, I used CL and you'll be pleased to know you have an IRC client too!
2017-01-09T15:46:57Z Devon: When you want to make sure your inner loop fits in the CPU cache, C is about all you'll find.  Ah, C is nothing but PDP-11 assembler with special characters instead of acronyms for opcodes.
2017-01-09T15:47:14Z beach: XdilaudidX: Oh, you should have asked first.  We already have one: beirc.
2017-01-09T15:47:41Z XdilaudidX: Shame.
2017-01-09T15:48:07Z XdilaudidX: We need a github for lisp machine programmes
2017-01-09T15:48:33Z beach: What is wrong with the existing GitHub?
2017-01-09T15:48:43Z XdilaudidX: True!
2017-01-09T15:49:12Z XdilaudidX: Well we need a git clone program for lisp machines
2017-01-09T15:49:39Z Devon: QuickLisp?
2017-01-09T15:50:29Z XdilaudidX: Its a pain to keep tabbing between Genera and Linux
2017-01-09T15:50:30Z beach: XdilaudidX:  Is the source code of the programs you wrote available?
2017-01-09T15:51:08Z XdilaudidX: Not yet, I'm traveling and don't have my Lisp Machine available
2017-01-09T15:51:21Z Devon: XdilaudidX: Do you have the Genera C compiler or Zeta-C?
2017-01-09T15:52:09Z Devon: My LispM travels with me in my MacBookAir.
2017-01-09T15:53:22Z XdilaudidX: Haven't tried writing C in Genera so don't know.  I've been using Genera for writing my books (someone write Vile in common lisp!!!), a bit of coding in lisp naturally
2017-01-09T15:54:05Z XdilaudidX: I've been trying to live in the lisp machine so to speak, and to speak lisp wherever possible.
2017-01-09T15:54:17Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:54:21Z cyberlard joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:54:34Z XdilaudidX: Lisp makes me want to listen to Elvis.  No idea why.
2017-01-09T15:54:55Z Younder: finally got my book "lattices and order" ordered it on november 20'th. Amazon be slow.
2017-01-09T15:55:15Z XdilaudidX: Devon: What do you use for a lisp machine?
2017-01-09T15:56:45Z Younder: Devon is being silly. Sure Lisp tags are a pain. In that they limit integer size.
2017-01-09T15:57:19Z XdilaudidX: I didn't think there was much aside from Genera and Emacs
2017-01-09T15:57:52Z Younder: But if it is critical, ad it rearly is, you can optimize that away.
2017-01-09T15:57:56Z nowhere_man quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-09T15:58:05Z XdilaudidX: Oh and Mezzano.  Genera will run on Mac, so will Emacs
2017-01-09T15:58:07Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-09T15:59:07Z Younder: Never the less using a non native register size is bound to be inefficient. (Am I missing something?)
2017-01-09T15:59:14Z Devon: RG intends to upgrade his design to 64 bits.  There's enough room in IEEE floating point NaN space for a complete tagged world - and we get fast floating point in stock hardware.
2017-01-09T15:59:26Z XdilaudidX: No clue about Mezzano, but I guess I could kick up Virtualpc and see
2017-01-09T16:00:51Z JuanDaugherty: november 20? sounds lost.
2017-01-09T16:01:31Z JuanDaugherty: i'd start a reconciliation/chargeback
2017-01-09T16:02:02Z Younder: JuanDaugherty, No I got it today. It actually arrived in December 27'th but I was on vacation then.
2017-01-09T16:02:08Z JuanDaugherty: ah
2017-01-09T16:02:17Z Devon: Amazon is a front end for many tiny publishers who may not even have full time staff.
2017-01-09T16:02:27Z JuanDaugherty: yes i know
2017-01-09T16:02:35Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-09T16:02:41Z JuanDaugherty: but they enforce standards
2017-01-09T16:02:56Z JuanDaugherty: at least as far as the biz and transactioning are concerned
2017-01-09T16:05:16Z Devon: XdilaudidX: Git being mostly C, try compiling it on Genera.
2017-01-09T16:06:24Z Younder: Amazon has killed many bookstores. But to me it offers the biggest collection of books ever. Kinda seductive for a math major. Your average bookstore doesn't offer much for us.
2017-01-09T16:08:40Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:08:48Z XdilaudidX: Urgh, I have terrible luck compiling stuff.
2017-01-09T16:09:26Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-09T16:10:12Z Guest82 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:10:52Z Younder: Well I use Ubuntu and I can 'coerce' most stuff to compile here.
2017-01-09T16:11:31Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T16:11:34Z aap joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:12:55Z sirkmatija quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-09T16:13:12Z Guest1913 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:13:17Z pmicossi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T16:13:26Z Devon: XdilaudidX: When I'm done with class I'll compile Git on System 130, if it works you'll have no trouble on Genera.
2017-01-09T16:13:51Z flip214: Younder: apart from that, you're already starting with quite a list of software, and could even add debian repositories if the need arises...
2017-01-09T16:14:32Z XdilaudidX: Hmm, does someone have a hardware LispM?
2017-01-09T16:14:43Z Devon: Does QuickLisp compile on Genera?
2017-01-09T16:14:52Z Younder: flip214, Yes. I am quite fond of Ubuntu. Been using it since 2006.
2017-01-09T16:15:01Z Devon: lol, yes I do, TI Exploders.
2017-01-09T16:15:07Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2017-01-09T16:15:07Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:15:07Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2017-01-09T16:15:07Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:15:09Z Lord_of_Life is now known as Lord_of_Away
2017-01-09T16:15:17Z XdilaudidX: Although Sys 130 sounds more like an ibm mainframe
2017-01-09T16:15:31Z XdilaudidX: They always had system and a number
2017-01-09T16:15:54Z Devon: LispM System 99 was the last system RMS released before starting GNU so 130 should be 30% better.
2017-01-09T16:16:12Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:16:31Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T16:16:39Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:17:02Z Younder: Still going on about Lisp machines. They died in the 1990's when ordinary PC's provided enough memory.
2017-01-09T16:17:03Z Xach: Devon: I don't think so. Last time I checked (a few years ago) there were basic ANSI issues to work out.
2017-01-09T16:18:22Z o1e9 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-09T16:18:58Z RichardPaulBck[m quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T16:18:58Z M-moredhel quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T16:18:59Z Tetsuo[m] quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2017-01-09T16:18:59Z M-Illandan quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T16:18:59Z Omarnem0[m] quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T16:18:59Z harlequin78[m] quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T16:19:00Z Jach[m] quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T16:19:00Z lugus35[m] quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T16:19:04Z Younder: For the record common lisp requires about 32 Mb to my memory.
2017-01-09T16:19:38Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:20:57Z Devon: Xach: Does QL have a switch to disable all cacheing?
2017-01-09T16:21:21Z Xach: Devon: No.
2017-01-09T16:21:40Z Xach: Quicklisp does little caching on its own, but that caching doesn't have an off switch.
2017-01-09T16:22:03Z XdilaudidX: Is it an LMI lispm or a
2017-01-09T16:22:10Z Younder: Is there any reason it should?
2017-01-09T16:22:22Z dlowe: I wonder, theoretically, how hard it would be to make the genera compilers emit x86_64
2017-01-09T16:22:25Z XdilaudidX: An MIT lispm?
2017-01-09T16:23:21Z XdilaudidX: dlowe: No reason why it shouldn't be practically
2017-01-09T16:23:31Z yeticry_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T16:23:48Z dlowe: in that case, you might be able to bootstrap into modernity that way
2017-01-09T16:24:50Z yeticry joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:24:54Z XdilaudidX: The putative rights holder is neither acting to enforce his rights nor seems to actually HAVE rights.
2017-01-09T16:25:15Z Younder: I seem to remember Genera betting on MAC taking over, but that never really happened.
2017-01-09T16:25:30Z beach: XdilaudidX: So when can we expect to see the source code of the programs you wrote?
2017-01-09T16:26:00Z XdilaudidX: When I return from vacation.  Say a week or two.
2017-01-09T16:26:11Z beach: OK.
2017-01-09T16:27:15Z XdilaudidX: I wouldn't mind having genera on x64 but there would need to be a lot of application level code written to make it usable.
2017-01-09T16:27:54Z Devon: LMITI = LMI/MIT/TI Lisp Machine System - all the same.
2017-01-09T16:27:56Z XdilaudidX: I'm definitely a genera convert.  More natural than the unixes for some reason
2017-01-09T16:28:28Z XdilaudidX: For a single user operating system
2017-01-09T16:29:14Z Devon: The lack of any fence between OS and user code is a blessing and a curse.
2017-01-09T16:30:38Z Younder: XdilaudidX, whatever. Never used it myself, so who am I to juge. Seems a bit old faction though.
2017-01-09T16:30:39Z XdilaudidX: I can see what you mean
2017-01-09T16:30:58Z dlowe: if it ever became popular, the Internet wildlife would consume your computer alive.
2017-01-09T16:31:10Z Younder: lol
2017-01-09T16:31:56Z White_Flame: yep, beach and I had a long conversation here a while ago about how one might protect lisp code from other lisp code in the same image
2017-01-09T16:32:09Z XdilaudidX: Younder, it's like an old Thunderchicken.  Needs wax and an overhaul, but the car is fine
2017-01-09T16:32:44Z XdilaudidX: Or rather, the CDR is fine
2017-01-09T16:33:48Z Younder: My FIRST CAR was a CDR, but it was the same as all the REST. (/me recomplates)
2017-01-09T16:34:05Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T16:34:13Z Devon: The LispM designers discussed barriers between subsystems but I'm not aware of any concrete proposals.
2017-01-09T16:35:00Z White_Flame: most ideas that were passed around here was to have private packages & symbols, which couldn't be name-collided
2017-01-09T16:35:08Z XdilaudidX: Devon: you joked that C was basically PDP 11 assembly, but that made me think: can TECO be ported to C?
2017-01-09T16:35:10Z Devon: lol... looking up the PDP-10 CAR & CDR instruction mnemonics.
2017-01-09T16:35:44Z Devon: Only in that the KLH-10 emulator is written in C.
2017-01-09T16:36:02Z XdilaudidX: I love TECO as an editor.  I use a visual variant of it as my daily editor
2017-01-09T16:36:38Z XdilaudidX: Hate emacs because it doesn't come with sensible keybindings
2017-01-09T16:36:54Z br4in joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:37:08Z aap: XdilaudidX: which version of TECO is that?
2017-01-09T16:37:09Z White_Flame: XdilaudidX: while I agree, that's only because "sensible" has changed over the years
2017-01-09T16:37:12Z Devon: Hmm, I should fire up ITS and see if it has a TCP QFILE server.
2017-01-09T16:37:35Z Younder: XdilaudidX, Do you like vim?
2017-01-09T16:37:37Z XdilaudidX: Yes, I know emacs came from teco but teco has vi like keybindings
2017-01-09T16:37:54Z XdilaudidX: Yeah Vim is my second favourite editor.
2017-01-09T16:37:54Z Devon: I'd say vi has teco like keybindings.
2017-01-09T16:38:06Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:38:48Z XdilaudidX: Aap, it's called SciTeco
2017-01-09T16:39:24Z Younder: Wow, stange to find programmers from the 70's these days.
2017-01-09T16:39:35Z Younder: strange
2017-01-09T16:39:50Z aap: nice, i should finally learn teco
2017-01-09T16:40:00Z kfjdhdaa joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:40:05Z XdilaudidX: I'm not, I was born in 1992 but vi and teco are easy on the hands
2017-01-09T16:40:05Z kfjdhdaa left #lisp
2017-01-09T16:40:06Z aap: i can hardly use any pdp-10 software...
2017-01-09T16:40:15Z kfjdhdaa joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:40:17Z kfjdhdaa left #lisp
2017-01-09T16:40:20Z aap: at least i know the hardware fairly well :)
2017-01-09T16:40:29Z Younder: ed, ed is the standard Unix editor ;)
2017-01-09T16:40:33Z XdilaudidX: For a non programmer, emacs isn't the best option.
2017-01-09T16:40:53Z aap: Younder: but what if you're using ITS or TOPS-10? ;)
2017-01-09T16:40:55Z XdilaudidX: We're talking VISUAL editors here
2017-01-09T16:41:31Z klltkr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T16:42:01Z sjl: is there a version of ELT in alexandria or serapeum or whatever that allows negative indices?
2017-01-09T16:42:12Z XdilaudidX: There's a fairly nice but outdated manual for SciTeco.  As I said, I use it as my daily editor when I can.
2017-01-09T16:42:45Z sjl: e.g. (elt% "bar" -1) -> #\r
2017-01-09T16:43:10Z XdilaudidX: And I'll explain why: we all know that Vim has nicer undo than Emacs.  Well, SciTeco has even nicer undo than Vim
2017-01-09T16:43:55Z beach: Could we stick to the topic, please?
2017-01-09T16:43:57Z XdilaudidX: In that your commands are greyed out in the bottom, so in case you need to redo, you can see what you typed
2017-01-09T16:44:32Z XdilaudidX: Don't you need a text editor to write lisp?
2017-01-09T16:45:27Z sjl: XdilaudidX: no https://twitter.com/stevelosh/status/310487495198523393/photo/1
2017-01-09T16:45:31Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T16:46:03Z White_Flame: also, structure editors
2017-01-09T16:46:20Z XdilaudidX: That's true, but in a sense, pen and paper is an "editor"!
2017-01-09T16:46:39Z White_Flame: it's not a text editor, though
2017-01-09T16:46:39Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-09T16:46:46Z White_Flame: ie, it's not limited to text characters
2017-01-09T16:46:57Z sjl: closest thing to my desired elt function I can find is slice in serapeum: https://github.com/TBRSS/serapeum/blob/master/sequences.lisp#L613-L635
2017-01-09T16:47:18Z sjl: but that gives a whole subseq when I just need a single element
2017-01-09T16:48:38Z dmaj joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:49:16Z beach: sjl: Surely, it is trivial to write.
2017-01-09T16:49:44Z sjl: beach: sure, I wrote it https://github.com/sjl/sand/blob/master/src/story.lisp#L32-L38
2017-01-09T16:49:48Z sjl: was just hoping to delete some code
2017-01-09T16:49:49Z XdilaudidX: iBoston, Masachussets$-fMas$is$fsse$-2cdftit$0tt
2017-01-09T16:50:02Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:50:07Z Younder: I take it you guys want elt to work like python with negative indices's representing values from the lastmost. But elt would be very inefficient for lists.
2017-01-09T16:50:15Z XdilaudidX: Soe
2017-01-09T16:50:36Z Younder: It's fine for arrays
2017-01-09T16:50:38Z sjl: Younder: yeah, I'm fine with it only working on arrays for my use case
2017-01-09T16:50:52Z XdilaudidX: Sorry teco is a very useful program in my life and I like to evangelise.
2017-01-09T16:53:18Z Younder: So shouldn't you modify aref then?
2017-01-09T16:53:44Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-09T16:54:26Z yeticry joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:56:53Z M-moredhel joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:57:25Z loke: XdilaudidX: I have recently played around with videoteco and it
2017-01-09T16:57:30Z loke: 's indeed quite nice.
2017-01-09T16:57:38Z loke: Better than vi in some repsects.
2017-01-09T16:57:56Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-09T16:57:58Z sjl: Younder: sure, I could
2017-01-09T16:57:59Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-09T16:58:10Z sjl: I mean ELT is always inefficient on lists for large N though
2017-01-09T16:58:20Z sjl: janky version of elt that only traverses it once: http://paste.stevelosh.com/5873c104d1d87b0008a9cb19
2017-01-09T16:58:48Z sjl: plusp there should be (not (minusp ...))
2017-01-09T16:58:50Z sjl: but yeah
2017-01-09T17:01:19Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-09T17:02:05Z stevegt_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:05:00Z sjl: or I could do it a lot less stupidly with iterate I guess http://paste.stevelosh.com/5873c2add1d87b0008a9cb1a
2017-01-09T17:05:41Z sjl: though that does an extra N lookups
2017-01-09T17:06:10Z sjl goes back to doing actual work
2017-01-09T17:08:08Z dmaj_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:11:41Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-09T17:12:31Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T17:12:36Z Younder: I like Iterate.
2017-01-09T17:13:45Z M-Illandan joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:13:45Z lugus35[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:13:46Z harlequin78[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:13:52Z Omarnem0[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:13:52Z RichardPaulBck[m joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:13:52Z Jach[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:13:52Z Tetsuo[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:14:26Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:19:20Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-09T17:19:31Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-09T17:20:15Z Devon: sjl: That elt-list fails to err on -bignum and loops forever on circular lists.  Both easily remedied.
2017-01-09T17:20:38Z _death: it's better to use paste.lisp.org to paste stuff, because then people here can annotate
2017-01-09T17:21:41Z Devon: M-x paste.lisp.org
2017-01-09T17:23:04Z emerson quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-09T17:23:08Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-09T17:23:16Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:23:16Z sjohnson left #lisp
2017-01-09T17:27:11Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T17:30:51Z dmaj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T17:30:51Z dmaj_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T17:31:02Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:31:16Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:34:14Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:35:31Z Xof quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T17:35:38Z Guest82 quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-09T17:41:30Z XdilaudidX: @ loke sorry didn't  see your comment
2017-01-09T17:41:55Z loke: XdilaudidX: This is IRC. No one expects that their comments be seen. :-)
2017-01-09T17:42:16Z bocaneri quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-09T17:42:20Z XdilaudidX: Try SciTeco.  It's video teco mark 2
2017-01-09T17:42:53Z XdilaudidX: Video teco was written by my helicopter instructor by the way, Paul Cantrell
2017-01-09T17:43:41Z XdilaudidX: We bonded over our mutual love of Teco and the Bell 47
2017-01-09T17:44:23Z XdilaudidX: sciteco.sourceforge.org
2017-01-09T17:44:47Z HeyFlash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T17:45:35Z stevegt_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T17:45:48Z XdilaudidX: @loke It runs on macos, Windows, and all flavours of Unix.  Need a version for LispM because Zmacs sucks
2017-01-09T17:46:21Z XdilaudidX: Or at least Vile or Tile
2017-01-09T17:46:57Z loke: XdilaudidX: The main reason I don't actually use TECO is because it doesn't support Unicode.
2017-01-09T17:47:30Z csziacobus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T17:47:38Z XdilaudidX: Yep, its primary failing.  I don't need Unicode so I use it all the time
2017-01-09T17:47:52Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:47:56Z XdilaudidX: Both my books were written in Latex and teco
2017-01-09T17:49:31Z XdilaudidX: If I'm on android I use vim but otherwise I'm a teco loyalist
2017-01-09T17:50:33Z aap: what books are those?
2017-01-09T17:50:40Z XdilaudidX: @loke have you ever used it for editing offline as intended by is creators?
2017-01-09T17:51:04Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-09T17:51:07Z XdilaudidX: I wrote a guide to study, and one on Latex
2017-01-09T17:51:11Z loke: XdilaudidX: Used what for offline? Writing scripts to modify data? No.
2017-01-09T17:52:12Z XdilaudidX: @loke basically.  That's one part of Teco I never got right.  Writing a correction file, munging it to find my draft mangled
2017-01-09T17:52:29Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:52:33Z loke: XdilaudidX: There is very little reason to do that these days.
2017-01-09T17:53:09Z XdilaudidX: Faster!
2017-01-09T17:53:29Z XdilaudidX: @loke but not for mortals.
2017-01-09T17:53:49Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:54:04Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-09T17:54:13Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:54:24Z XdilaudidX: @loke you can't do it in vi though, so vi < teco confirmed
2017-01-09T17:55:50Z XdilaudidX: My first teco experience was when I needed to capitalise every first letter of every line
2017-01-09T17:56:39Z XdilaudidX: Writing a lisp program for that is possible.  But longer than the text to be edited.
2017-01-09T17:57:37Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:58:19Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:58:24Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-09T17:59:45Z loke: XdilaudidX: I'd still need it to support Unicode before I'd use for for any real editing. That'll never happen though.
2017-01-09T18:00:59Z XdilaudidX: Loke: Robin Haberkorn's working on it.  He's German, so he needs Unicode more than I do
2017-01-09T18:01:28Z loke: That's interesting. I didn't reaslise anyone did any development on it anymore.
2017-01-09T18:01:50Z m00natic` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T18:01:52Z loke: Where can I follow any new on this?
2017-01-09T18:01:57Z Devon: XdilaudidX: KMP (CLHS editor) used MIT TECO to parse s-expressions.
2017-01-09T18:02:08Z XdilaudidX: Loke: Google SciTeco
2017-01-09T18:02:58Z XdilaudidX: He was surprised I was using "his little editor" for Serious Work
2017-01-09T18:05:09Z XdilaudidX: Loke: SciTeco is Video Teco 2.0, then there's TecoC being worked on by Tom Almy and Blake McBride
2017-01-09T18:05:31Z loke: I know blake from the GNU APL mailing list.
2017-01-09T18:05:44Z loke: I contribued Emacs supprot as SQL support for it.
2017-01-09T18:06:41Z XdilaudidX: Well you can thank him for Teco as well.  Both are great editors.
2017-01-09T18:07:27Z loke: Anyway, time to leave the office.
2017-01-09T18:07:38Z whartung quit (Quit: whartung)
2017-01-09T18:07:41Z loke quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-09T18:08:26Z XdilaudidX: @devon that's some nice integration!
2017-01-09T18:08:56Z sellout-1 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T18:09:24Z XdilaudidX: Interesting that this channel even exists.  It's like dancing to rockabilly when there's Top 40
2017-01-09T18:09:59Z XdilaudidX: But I like rockabilly.  Besides, Common Lisp rocks.
2017-01-09T18:10:03Z whartung joined #lisp
2017-01-09T18:10:24Z dmaj joined #lisp
2017-01-09T18:10:42Z White_Flame: lisp is old.  irc is old.  Not that suprising if you think about it ;)
2017-01-09T18:11:05Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-09T18:11:45Z XdilaudidX: I wrote some simple programmes for text manipulation in Lisp.
2017-01-09T18:12:29Z XdilaudidX: Half my comp sci friends laughed at me, half stared bug eyed at the source code
2017-01-09T18:12:47Z dmaj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T18:12:57Z stevegt_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T18:13:30Z XdilaudidX: They're mostly C and Java guys.  I still don't consider myself a real programmer, because I write 80 percent in Lisp
2017-01-09T18:14:55Z Devon: Real Programmers use duct tape.
2017-01-09T18:15:39Z XdilaudidX: That and Fortran 66, which I will use but only if you force me to.
2017-01-09T18:16:23Z Devon: C maps directly to elegant PDP-11 hardware.
2017-01-09T18:16:37Z XdilaudidX: Shockingly, the Fortran class at my university isn't even offered by the computer department
2017-01-09T18:16:59Z XdilaudidX: It's apparently taught by chemistry faculty.
2017-01-09T18:17:41Z Devon: MIT didn't either, they were going to lose accreditation, the faculty said ok, we'll see whose reputation suffers.
2017-01-09T18:18:40Z XdilaudidX: It's not that, I mean, Fortran and chemistry?  Isn't there a type mismatch in there somewhere?
2017-01-09T18:19:39Z malice`: I believe you don't need fortran class at university.
2017-01-09T18:19:49Z malice`: You need to teach your students computer science, not fortran.
2017-01-09T18:19:50Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-09T18:20:44Z Guest1913 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T18:21:57Z XdilaudidX: Well, you need A computer language of some sort.
2017-01-09T18:22:30Z XdilaudidX: Tried the normal kind and somehow they don't play well with me.
2017-01-09T18:23:02Z XdilaudidX: I tried Pascal, Visual Basic, C, the works.
2017-01-09T18:23:36Z Bike: fortran is fairly common in chemistry. it's a pragmatic choice of class for em
2017-01-09T18:24:00Z XdilaudidX: The only programming languages I understand are the weirdie ones like Lisp and oddly enough Haskell
2017-01-09T18:24:33Z aap: what about asm? :)
2017-01-09T18:24:38Z XdilaudidX: But I can't twist text as easily in Haskell as I can in Lisp
2017-01-09T18:25:06Z XdilaudidX: No.  Urgh.  No assembler.  Not willing to try.
2017-01-09T18:25:30Z Younder: Perl excels in twisting text.
2017-01-09T18:26:06Z XdilaudidX: I don't get the basic concept of Perl.  Its metaphor eludes me.
2017-01-09T18:26:13Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-09T18:26:24Z malice`: Does fortran have any features that make it better than C or like?
2017-01-09T18:26:27Z XdilaudidX: Someone told me I think functionally.  That might be true.
2017-01-09T18:26:43Z Younder: If you know shell script sed and awk then perl sort of makes sense.
2017-01-09T18:27:01Z Bike: malice`: pointer aliasing stuff means it's easier to make faster if you know what you're doing
2017-01-09T18:27:12Z XdilaudidX: No, it's just what I learned under duress because my high school teacher wasn't a Lisper
2017-01-09T18:27:31Z Bike: probably other minor crap
2017-01-09T18:27:44Z malice`: I'm asking for abstractions stuff. The only Fortran code I know is number-crunching things, because Fortran can make these fast.
2017-01-09T18:27:46Z XdilaudidX: He said Fortran might help me think differently.  It didn't.
2017-01-09T18:27:55Z malice`: But that doesn't look like a reason to learn it.
2017-01-09T18:27:57Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-09T18:28:00Z Bike: fortran is not very abstract
2017-01-09T18:28:20Z malice`: Lisp teaches nice things. Haskell is also nice. Erlang, prolog. These languages can show you different ways of looking at problems
2017-01-09T18:28:40Z XdilaudidX: He had us write AI code for a backgammon game.
2017-01-09T18:28:44Z malice`: But you also get to teach students the mainstream, so C++ or Python would be preferable. I'd prefer C++, and then maybe Ruby.
2017-01-09T18:28:47Z Younder: All good languages
2017-01-09T18:29:08Z XdilaudidX: I could do it... in Lisp.
2017-01-09T18:29:19Z malice`: But I guess that fortran class would make no sense.
2017-01-09T18:29:28Z Younder: I might add Mathematica
2017-01-09T18:29:46Z malice`: It's commercial, but I'm constantly impressed by its features
2017-01-09T18:29:52Z XdilaudidX: Not a mathy guy.  I write application code.
2017-01-09T18:29:57Z Bike: it makes insofar as you want people who do not care about computer science to learn a programming language. same as an engineering program teaching matlab.
2017-01-09T18:30:00Z malice`: Like in each code golf I see it seems that Mathematica has a function to solve it :D
2017-01-09T18:30:42Z malice`: Anyway, I think that universities should start teaching students with SICP, and not C/C++/Java/Python.
2017-01-09T18:31:12Z XdilaudidX: British universities teach Haskell in compsci class
2017-01-09T18:31:25Z XdilaudidX: There is also the option of Python
2017-01-09T18:31:39Z malice`: Haskell is nice
2017-01-09T18:31:48Z malice`: I don't really like Python, but well
2017-01-09T18:31:55Z XdilaudidX: I like Haskell and Lisp
2017-01-09T18:32:07Z Younder: Haskell confuses me but I am trying to learn
2017-01-09T18:32:08Z XdilaudidX: Well there, you've made your choice.
2017-01-09T18:32:55Z XdilaudidX: Fortran 66
2017-01-09T18:33:05Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-09T18:33:17Z Younder: lol, how about Fortran 2006?
2017-01-09T18:33:47Z XdilaudidX: Not object oriented programming!  I hate Oop!
2017-01-09T18:34:03Z XdilaudidX: Yeah, I'll stick with Lisp
2017-01-09T18:34:04Z Younder: Like in Lisp there has been a HUGE development in Fortran.
2017-01-09T18:35:13Z XdilaudidX: Is lisp okay for a first language?
2017-01-09T18:35:19Z Younder: It's not really the same language.
2017-01-09T18:36:05Z Younder: XdilaudidX, I think it is. It is much harder to larn if you know C. (I speak from personal experience)
2017-01-09T18:36:16Z XdilaudidX: Like I think the reason I like Common Lisp is because I learned a bit of it when I was 16
2017-01-09T18:37:04Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-09T18:37:06Z XdilaudidX: And then when I had to write in some other language, I kept thinking how much easier the job would be with lisp.
2017-01-09T18:37:11Z nullx002- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T18:37:58Z malice`: Lisp is fine as the first language.
2017-01-09T18:38:17Z svetlyak40wt: Do somebody know, why some lisp systems from different maintainers have "trivial-" prefix?
2017-01-09T18:40:14Z Xach: svetlyak40wt: it was a trend for a while. it approximately means something that doesn't do much but which is useful.
2017-01-09T18:41:09Z svetlyak40wt: Does it makes sense to name a new library with limited functionality the same way?
2017-01-09T18:41:52Z Younder is listening to Ward Cunningham's live conference
2017-01-09T18:42:45Z Xach: svetlyak40wt: I am not personally a fan of the style.
2017-01-09T18:42:53Z Xach: svetlyak40wt: I think you should give it whatever name you wish.
2017-01-09T18:43:06Z stevegt_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-09T18:43:12Z svetlyak40wt: Thank you for the advice!
2017-01-09T18:52:07Z Younder: Is heapsort more efficient that quicksort in Lisp?
2017-01-09T18:53:08Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-09T18:53:34Z Younder: That problem was ill defined. Let's say we have 10000 elements, and it is in memory.
2017-01-09T18:53:39Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T18:55:38Z nullx002- joined #lisp
2017-01-09T18:55:51Z Xach: Younder: If it was, what would you do with that info?
2017-01-09T18:56:32Z Younder: I belive it is difficult to make quicksort efficient in Lisp. Easier in C.
2017-01-09T18:56:43Z Younder: Xach, I don't know yet.
2017-01-09T18:56:56Z Xach: Younder: Why is it more difficult?
2017-01-09T18:57:58Z Younder: Well in C the array is on the stack. In lisp on the heap. There is more overhead in CL.
2017-01-09T18:58:06Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T18:58:18Z Younder: Not sure about this it is just a feeling.
2017-01-09T18:58:38Z Bike: arrays can be stack allocated in lisp, and also how does being on the stack versus in the heap affect a sorting algorithm
2017-01-09T18:59:08Z lisp048 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T18:59:21Z Younder: I should just code and see. I am probably being silly.
2017-01-09T19:02:16Z lisp048: Hey any way for that nil to not be printed?
2017-01-09T19:02:16Z lisp048: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336168
2017-01-09T19:02:21Z lisp048: excuse the formatting :D
2017-01-09T19:02:34Z Younder: return (values)
2017-01-09T19:02:54Z lisp048: I've not used return values in lisp
2017-01-09T19:03:00Z lisp048: I thought cond took care of that
2017-01-09T19:03:03Z Xach: lisp048: I like to help, but I can't follow the formatting of the code in this example, sorry.
2017-01-09T19:03:20Z Xach: lisp048: It might also be helpful to have a comment or docstring explaining what extract is meant to do.
2017-01-09T19:03:21Z lisp048: :(
2017-01-09T19:03:36Z lisp048: Sorry I don't know how to format lisp code but I will add comments
2017-01-09T19:03:58Z Xach: I know what a tree usually is, but start and finish could use some exposition.
2017-01-09T19:04:19Z Bike: if by "that nil" you mean the return value of the function, it's only printed by the repl. it won't show up if you call extract from elsewhere or anything
2017-01-09T19:07:24Z lisp048: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336168#1
2017-01-09T19:07:50Z lisp048: ((NIL ((7))) (8 (9 (10 ((11))) 12)) (13))
2017-01-09T19:07:51Z lisp048: I get this
2017-01-09T19:08:06Z lisp048: I'd rather I didn't have
2017-01-09T19:08:09Z lisp048: that nil at the
2017-01-09T19:08:12Z lisp048: start
2017-01-09T19:08:16Z Bike: oh, that's different.
2017-01-09T19:09:06Z pjb: lisp048: error Count is undefined.
2017-01-09T19:09:25Z PlasmaStar quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T19:09:29Z lisp048: I added a comment below saying to set count for yourself
2017-01-09T19:09:32Z lisp048: I use (setf count 1)
2017-01-09T19:09:33Z cyraxjoe quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T19:09:42Z pjb: This doesn't define anything.
2017-01-09T19:09:58Z lisp048: it certainly is working on my compiler
2017-01-09T19:09:59Z pjb: Use let, let*, defvar or defparameter to define a variable.
2017-01-09T19:10:16Z lisp048: let as far as I know is not a global value
2017-01-09T19:10:17Z pjb: lisp048: but since it's not specified, you don't know what it really does.
2017-01-09T19:10:22Z lisp048: so only works locally
2017-01-09T19:10:23Z pjb: exact.
2017-01-09T19:10:37Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:10:50Z pjb: (setf Count (+ Count 1) ) ;inc count   --> (incf count)
2017-01-09T19:11:13Z pjb: Why write silly code, then a comment with almost the right code?  Can't you just write the right code?
2017-01-09T19:11:18Z PlasmaStar joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:11:22Z lisp048: I know that, but it's how I wrote it
2017-01-09T19:11:38Z pjb:  (extract (cdr Tree) Start Finish ) ) ) ) ;rest of list -->     (extract (REST Tree) Start Finish ))))
2017-01-09T19:11:57Z lisp048: I mean fine, but these are more to do with the formatting of the code rather than the issue at hand
2017-01-09T19:12:08Z lisp048: I realize that I can write them like that and that it is better to write them that way
2017-01-09T19:12:09Z pjb: (and (>= Count Start) (<= Count Finish) ) ;if count is between start and finish   --> (<= start count finish) !!!
2017-01-09T19:12:27Z pjb: Stop writing lisp code, just write the comments, and then add parentheses!!!
2017-01-09T19:12:27Z lisp048: but I already wrote my code and so changing that won't change the problem...
2017-01-09T19:12:35Z pjb: Yes, it will.
2017-01-09T19:12:54Z pjb: The first big bug you have in your code, the main one, is Count vs. count.
2017-01-09T19:13:14Z pjb: Write consistent spelling and it will be much better.
2017-01-09T19:13:15Z lisp048: I thought common lisp didn't discern between lowercase and uppercase
2017-01-09T19:13:24Z lisp048: and instead transcribed everything to
2017-01-09T19:13:26Z lisp048: uppercase no?
2017-01-09T19:13:34Z otjgito joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:13:43Z pjb: The default setting of the lisp reader doesn't distinguish them, but humans do, and lisp certainly does.
2017-01-09T19:13:51Z raynold: ahh it's a wonderful day
2017-01-09T19:13:55Z lisp048: so not a bug
2017-01-09T19:14:01Z pjb: (eq '|Count| '|count|)  #| --> nil |#  (eq '|Count| 'Count) #| --> nil |#
2017-01-09T19:14:28Z pjb: code is not written for the machines, it's written for the human programmers to read back!
2017-01-09T19:15:14Z Oddity quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T19:16:16Z pjb: lisp048: what do you thing, is () an atom or not?
2017-01-09T19:16:37Z pjb: s/thing/think/
2017-01-09T19:16:39Z lisp048: it's not?
2017-01-09T19:16:49Z pjb: It is.
2017-01-09T19:16:58Z bocaneri quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T19:17:01Z Younder: () is nil
2017-01-09T19:17:11Z lisp048: right
2017-01-09T19:17:12Z Younder: nil is a atom
2017-01-09T19:18:11Z pjb: So when (car tree) is () = nil,   (not (atom (car Tree) ) ) is false.
2017-01-09T19:18:45Z lisp048: so listp would be a wiser choice?
2017-01-09T19:18:49Z pjb: Then if count is between, you return (cons (car Tree) #|cons atom with|# (extract (cdr Tree) Start Finish ) ) which will be a list starting with NIL.
2017-01-09T19:18:59Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-09T19:18:59Z pjb: lisp048:  depends on what you mean really.
2017-01-09T19:19:02Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:19:22Z Younder: listp is what you want
2017-01-09T19:19:42Z pjb: if you use listp, then it'll take conses and nil in that branch, and in (cons (extract (car Tree) Start Finish) …)   extract will return nil, so again , a list starting with NIL.
2017-01-09T19:20:31Z pjb: Now your function doesn't contain a single print expression.  So why do the comment say it prints something? It doesn't print anything!
2017-01-09T19:22:29Z travv0 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-09T19:23:33Z Xof joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:24:06Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T19:27:17Z csziacobus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T19:27:34Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:27:44Z lisp048: well print as in outputs something
2017-01-09T19:28:09Z pjb: Neither outputs.  There's absolutely no I/O here.
2017-01-09T19:29:44Z pjb: lisp048: basically the question is how do you represent a tree containing symbols such as nil unit dual ?  There are not only integers such as 0 1 2 in life, but also symbols.  Because in lisp () = nil is both an empty list and a symbol, if you must be careful how you represent and distinguishes a node with no element (empty list) and a node with a nil element.
2017-01-09T19:33:32Z lisp048: so adding not (null (first tree) )
2017-01-09T19:33:34Z lisp048: should fix this?
2017-01-09T19:33:55Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T19:34:48Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:36:55Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:39:05Z Younder: (null tree)
2017-01-09T19:39:56Z pjb: lisp048: finally, do you want to collect a "tree" or do you want a flat list of the atoms?
2017-01-09T19:40:07Z lisp048: tree
2017-01-09T19:40:43Z pjb: Well, what do you want to put in place of the branches not covered by the interval?
2017-01-09T19:41:11Z pjb: You don't really have trees there, but rather s-expressions…
2017-01-09T19:41:37Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T19:42:09Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:42:27Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:43:04Z lisp048: the depth of the atoms should remain the same
2017-01-09T19:43:13Z lisp048: however only the atoms inside the interval should be represented
2017-01-09T19:43:42Z lisp048: so ( ( nil 2 ( 2 ( 4 ) ) )
2017-01-09T19:43:52Z lisp048: starting from 2 should be
2017-01-09T19:44:00Z lisp048: ( ( ( 2 ( 4 ) ) )
2017-01-09T19:45:27Z csziacobus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T19:45:30Z Oddity joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:45:43Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:47:22Z pjb: lisp048: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336168#2
2017-01-09T19:47:32Z pjb: lisp048: your request is not consistent.
2017-01-09T19:47:46Z pjb: lisp048: draw the trees and you will see.
2017-01-09T19:48:27Z lisp048: left to right from 1
2017-01-09T19:48:43Z pjb: Instead of start finish,  we rather use start end in CL, with (and (<= start index) (< index end)).
2017-01-09T19:48:51Z pjb: No, never never ever from 1.
2017-01-09T19:49:18Z pjb: lisp048: https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD08xx/EWD831.html
2017-01-09T19:49:32Z lisp048: I understand that, but the problem requires it
2017-01-09T19:49:37Z csziacobus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T19:49:40Z pjb: Nonetheless.
2017-01-09T19:49:41Z lisp048: you can use count <= start-1 though
2017-01-09T19:49:54Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:50:20Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:50:41Z pjb: You just call (extract (1- start+1) (1- end+1)) if you want to  store (1+ start) in start+1 and (1+ end) in end+1.
2017-01-09T19:51:59Z pjb: Now, in my solution, notice how everything is written only once.
2017-01-09T19:52:04Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:52:12Z pjb: There is only one test for nil, which is the empty sexp.
2017-01-09T19:52:30Z pjb: Only one test for atom which is when you add 1 to the counter.
2017-01-09T19:52:45Z pjb: Only one test for the interval, which is when you collect the atom.
2017-01-09T19:53:08Z pjb: and foremost, only one place where we recurse on the cons cells.
2017-01-09T19:53:18Z csziacobus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T19:53:35Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2017-01-09T19:53:39Z kodnin: Yesterday I was surprised by how fast `sbcl --script some-file.lisp` loaded compared to Ruby and Node. That got me thinking, how does Lisp compare in terms of speed to other popular and fast languages?
2017-01-09T19:53:49Z pjb: faster.
2017-01-09T19:54:24Z pjb: Last time I tested (more than ten years ago), clisp started scripts faster than bash or perl (I told you it was a long time ago).
2017-01-09T19:54:36Z Younder: pjb this is starting to sound like a lecture. You are not getting pompous on your old age are you :)
2017-01-09T19:55:22Z pjb: If you find lectures pompous, you've got a serious problem.
2017-01-09T19:55:23Z kodnin: There is the Computer Language Benchmark Game, but I was wondering if any of you had references to articles or benchmarks?
2017-01-09T19:55:50Z Younder: For the record pjb alias Pascal Bourmignon is one of the best Lisp programmers here.
2017-01-09T19:56:24Z kodnin: :-D
2017-01-09T19:56:48Z pjb: kodnin: well, program speed is a global feature.  Benchmarks only test benchmarks.
2017-01-09T19:56:58Z jmarciano: you sure that is the right last name of pjb...
2017-01-09T19:57:26Z pjb: Not the best, just one of the oldests, so I retain a few good nuggets.
2017-01-09T19:57:30Z csziacobus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T19:57:41Z pjb: Bourguignon :-)
2017-01-09T19:57:45Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:01:58Z kodnin: pjb: I know, but I'm mostly interested in what league Common Lisp (SBCL or CCL) is playing. Is it the C/C++/Java league or the Python/Ruby league? As far as there are leagues of course.
2017-01-09T20:03:02Z pjb: Definitely C C++
2017-01-09T20:03:08Z pjb: kodnin: http://cliki.net/Performance
2017-01-09T20:04:17Z kodnin: pjb: Thanks, that's what I was looking for.
2017-01-09T20:04:37Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T20:04:43Z lisp048: Ok, well I am off
2017-01-09T20:04:53Z lisp048: thank you pjb and the others for your help :)
2017-01-09T20:04:54Z sukaeto: this thread has a pretty good summary of approximate relative language speeds: http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?t=108685
2017-01-09T20:05:37Z sukaeto: as you can see, Lisp is ranked in "Tier 2 (fast)"
2017-01-09T20:05:40Z jmarciano: it means, when switching from Perl, I get few times faster...
2017-01-09T20:06:24Z pjb: If you put as many type declarations in your CL programs as you do in you C or C++ programs, then your CL programs will be as fast or faster than your C or C++ programs, with compilers such as sbcl.
2017-01-09T20:06:44Z pjb: To me, that qualifies as Tier 1.
2017-01-09T20:07:56Z sukaeto: IMHO, Lisp is "fast enough that I will never need to worry about it"
2017-01-09T20:08:14Z sukaeto: but I figure it's better to defer to more credible sources on such things ;-)
2017-01-09T20:08:20Z Guest6344 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:08:38Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:08:47Z shka_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:08:49Z kodnin: sukaeto: Awesome!
2017-01-09T20:09:04Z White_Flame: DISASSEMBLE is your friend when it comes to speed
2017-01-09T20:09:39Z lisp048 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-09T20:09:48Z sukaeto: I am reminded of this essay: https://www.pvk.ca/Blog/2014/03/15/sbcl-the-ultimate-assembly-code-breadboard/
2017-01-09T20:09:51Z BlueRavenGT quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T20:10:58Z jmarciano: access forbidden
2017-01-09T20:11:08Z kodnin: Oh, definitely... Common Lisp is more than fast enough. It's just a pleasant surprise to stumble upon that fact while getting to know Common Lisp.
2017-01-09T20:11:46Z sukaeto: jmarciano: odd . . . try the cached version? http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rkdFUuD1isAJ:www.pvk.ca/Blog/2014/03/15/sbcl-the-ultimate-assembly-code-breadboard+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=ubuntu
2017-01-09T20:13:27Z ebrasca quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T20:13:43Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:15:59Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-09T20:16:11Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T20:16:15Z jmarciano: got it... too high level for me
2017-01-09T20:17:40Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:24:18Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-09T20:27:36Z keltvek joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:28:34Z remi`bd joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:31:04Z kodnin_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:34:18Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T20:35:33Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T20:37:08Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:37:44Z alelos joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:38:04Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T20:38:37Z otjgito quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-09T20:39:11Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T20:40:32Z tanuzzo joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:40:59Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:41:53Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:43:23Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T20:43:40Z csziacobus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T20:43:47Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:43:57Z csziacobus joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:44:51Z kodnin_ left #lisp
2017-01-09T20:45:47Z XdilaudidX quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-09T20:46:24Z kodnin quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-09T20:52:00Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:52:59Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-09T20:55:05Z jmarciano quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T20:56:34Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-09T20:59:53Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:00:20Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T21:03:07Z tristero joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:04:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:04:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-09T21:04:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:08:25Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T21:08:27Z Devon quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-09T21:09:35Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:10:52Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:10:53Z Bourne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T21:13:08Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:14:37Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:15:06Z rtmanpages joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:19:42Z Devon joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:21:33Z dyelar quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T21:22:56Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-09T21:22:57Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-09T21:23:26Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:24:27Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:25:59Z lambda-smith quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-09T21:27:13Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:30:22Z rebelshrug joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:32:47Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-09T21:36:35Z jurov: When XdilaudidX returns, tell him about http://www.loper-os.org/?p=51
2017-01-09T21:36:50Z dyelar joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:36:56Z svetlyak_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:36:56Z svetlyak_ is now known as svetlyak40wt_
2017-01-09T21:36:57Z jurov: Stan lives here on irc as "asciilifeform".
2017-01-09T21:39:30Z bias joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:40:34Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-09T21:41:02Z rtmanpages quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T21:42:36Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T21:43:06Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T21:46:11Z bias quit (Quit: Hermes - Material IRC Client - https://numixproject.org/)
2017-01-09T21:46:36Z aaa1 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:50:49Z bias joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:51:46Z deank quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-09T21:52:37Z bias quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-09T21:54:39Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-09T21:55:59Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:56:11Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-09T21:56:44Z sellout-1 quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-09T21:59:04Z csziacobus quit (Quit: csziacobus)
2017-01-09T21:59:51Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T22:02:55Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-09T22:04:03Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-09T22:11:09Z mood: Is there something similar to (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 3) for CLISP?
2017-01-09T22:13:11Z Devon quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T22:15:18Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-09T22:28:25Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-09T22:30:16Z bexx joined #lisp
2017-01-09T22:31:09Z bexx quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-09T22:31:37Z bexx joined #lisp
2017-01-09T22:31:55Z bexx: hi the
2017-01-09T22:32:03Z bexx: i have trouble with slime
2017-01-09T22:32:08Z bexx: anybody can help me?
2017-01-09T22:32:41Z borodust: shoot the question :)
2017-01-09T22:33:22Z bexx: i run a benchmark-init and slime is taking too long time
2017-01-09T22:33:39Z bexx: i want to load it only when i want
2017-01-09T22:33:42Z bexx: not automatically
2017-01-09T22:33:47Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-09T22:36:39Z borodust: if u don't want to load slime module whatsoever, i guess u can comment out (require 'slime) in the config
2017-01-09T22:37:23Z bexx: and if i can run M-x slime?
2017-01-09T22:37:45Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-09T22:37:53Z borodust: u need to to load module first
2017-01-09T22:37:57Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-09T22:38:17Z bexx: oh i don't get that
2017-01-09T22:40:36Z bexx quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T22:40:48Z bexx joined #lisp
2017-01-09T22:40:57Z bexx quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T22:46:54Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-09T22:54:21Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-09T22:56:57Z mrSpec` quit (Changing host)
2017-01-09T22:56:58Z mrSpec` joined #lisp
2017-01-09T22:57:13Z mrSpec` is now known as mrSpec
2017-01-09T22:58:57Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-09T23:01:48Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-09T23:04:21Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-09T23:04:30Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T23:04:53Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-09T23:05:37Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-09T23:07:32Z slyrus joined #lisp
2017-01-09T23:08:49Z freehck quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-09T23:09:24Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-09T23:10:26Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-09T23:13:19Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-09T23:13:24Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2017-01-09T23:13:34Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-09T23:14:15Z alelos quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-09T23:15:53Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-09T23:16:15Z svetlyak40wt_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-09T23:19:24Z yeticry_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T23:20:35Z Devon joined #lisp
2017-01-09T23:21:39Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-09T23:22:06Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-09T23:23:59Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-09T23:24:41Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-09T23:27:46Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-09T23:37:28Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-09T23:38:17Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-09T23:39:28Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-09T23:42:04Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-09T23:43:34Z mood: I just found out CLISP's LOOP implementation is rather inconsistent. A variable bound using WITH, after a FOR (which, admittedly, is non-conformant) will often have the "expected" value in a FINALLY context, but sometimes it'll be NIL
2017-01-09T23:44:38Z akkad: wow
2017-01-09T23:50:23Z skeuomorf quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-09T23:50:39Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-09T23:56:05Z aaa1 quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-09T23:58:21Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-10T00:01:11Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T00:02:36Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T00:04:03Z swflint joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:04:45Z slyrus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T00:05:14Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:08:17Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:08:49Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T00:12:01Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:13:06Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T00:15:39Z remi`bd quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-10T00:15:44Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-10T00:16:37Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:18:16Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:18:34Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T00:19:57Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:19:57Z Amplituhedron quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-10T00:20:07Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:20:44Z keltvek quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T00:21:14Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-10T00:22:00Z antonv joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:23:54Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:24:47Z jasom: kodnin: FYI if you ever find --script is too slow, you can save an image; thats quite a bit faster to load (about 7ms on my system).
2017-01-10T00:26:15Z kodnin: jasom: No, the opposite. I was impressed by its speed.
2017-01-10T00:27:40Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T00:27:45Z jasom: kodnin: right; I just put the "ever" in as if you either have to load tons of libraries or want to call it repeatedly from a script, it can be even faster still :)
2017-01-10T00:28:35Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T00:30:34Z aeth: kodnin: Be aware that the CL you write when you care about performance will be different than ordinary CL, sometimes considerably so.
2017-01-10T00:31:37Z kodnin: jasom: ah, cool!
2017-01-10T00:31:59Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T00:32:13Z aeth: e.g. (make-array 4 :element-type 'single-float :initial-contents #(0f0 1f0 3f0 4f0)) instead of #(0 1 3 4) (at least if you know your numbers are going to be float anyway and you don't care about precision that much)
2017-01-10T00:32:18Z kodnin: aeth: you mean functional as opposed to OO?
2017-01-10T00:33:19Z aeth: If you want C-like performance, you can't always rely on the functional functions to work properly. You need to benchmark them, and probably need to add type declarations even if you don't change the optimization levels (I'm surprised that that makes a difference, but sometimes just the declarations alone are a 10x speedup)
2017-01-10T00:34:57Z kodnin: aeth: I never looked into type declarations. They're completely new to me in Lisps.
2017-01-10T00:35:04Z aeth: What I think is going on is that the sequence functions are *much* more efficient if the compiler knows what kind of sequence it is.
2017-01-10T00:36:38Z aeth: Since it can't assume immutability most of the time, that means you have to use upgraded arrays and type declarations if you want performance because it can't e.g. assume that (vector 0f0 1f0 3f0 4f0) will always just contain floats
2017-01-10T00:37:09Z mindCrime quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-10T00:37:26Z aeth: I'm assuming that a purely functional language with an immutable data structure there *could* make that optimization
2017-01-10T00:37:30Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:37:35Z reepca` joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:37:36Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:38:05Z scymtym quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2017-01-10T00:38:05Z reepca quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2017-01-10T00:38:10Z jasom: sbcl won't generate multiple entry points to user functions based upon the types it knows, so the ability to inline functions can remove a huge amount of type checking.
2017-01-10T00:38:11Z reepca` is now known as reepca
2017-01-10T00:39:22Z jasom: well if you use "vector" tye type you get is well defined (vector t *) which is not what you want if it will always contain floats (array float (*))
2017-01-10T00:39:44Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:40:01Z aeth: Oh, and upgraded arrays are just arrays with a type other than T, so e.g. (upgraded-array-element-type 'single-float) is usually SINGLE-FLOAT on Lisps (but on clisp it's T)
2017-01-10T00:40:38Z aeth: I didn't define a term before using it
2017-01-10T00:40:42Z jasom: Furthermore (let ((x (vector 0f0))) (declare (type (array float (*))) x) ...) is a type error on sbcl.
2017-01-10T00:41:21Z aeth: jasom: Right, but what I'm saying is that an immutable vector in a similar language *could* make that optimization, but CL is not that kind of Lisp
2017-01-10T00:41:49Z jasom: aeth: It's wrong to make in lisp even when the compiler can prove that the value is never mutated
2017-01-10T00:41:57Z kodnin: This is too advanced for me, but good to see we're all learning.
2017-01-10T00:42:32Z kodnin: Thanks for the warm welcome here, good to know I can ask beginner questions.
2017-01-10T00:42:35Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:43:16Z jasom: kodnin: we try to keep it friendly, though many (myself included) are often a bit too pedantic.
2017-01-10T00:44:10Z jasom: kodnin: the nice thing is that sbcl  has instruction-level profiling so you never have to wonder *why* the code is slow
2017-01-10T00:49:23Z kodnin: jasom: good to know in case I might need it.
2017-01-10T00:50:38Z karswell` joined #lisp
2017-01-10T00:50:57Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T00:52:41Z aeth: I think the main thing to keep in mind if you want faster CL is to use make-array with an :element-type that upgrades on most implementations (although probably not CLISP, it doesn't even support 'single-float) and test the type with (upgraded-array-element-type 'foo) to make sure it's not T (i.e. holds everything)
2017-01-10T00:53:36Z aeth: Afaik, it's just going to be numbers, pretty much every number that's not a really large integer (how big will vary depending on e.g. 32 bit vs 64 bit)
2017-01-10T00:55:00Z aeth: People who say Lisp is slow probably don't even know that this can be done.
2017-01-10T00:57:16Z White_Flame: people who say Lisp is slow probably don't even know it's a compiled language :-P
2017-01-10T00:57:24Z aeth: Upgraded arrays and type declarations are the low-hanging fruit of optimizations, and probably the only optimizations you'll want to do if something needs to be faster because they'll matter the most by far.
2017-01-10T00:58:03Z aeth: White_Flame: right, they probably think Lisp is all about lists because quite a few introductions to Lisps focus on inefficiently working with lists for everything.
2017-01-10T00:58:14Z aeth: Usually they don't even know vectors exist in Lisp
2017-01-10T00:59:25Z kodnin quit (Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com)
2017-01-10T01:02:19Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-10T01:04:53Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-10T01:05:17Z aeth: Afaik, CL could at least theoretically be made to be extremely fast for numerical code, and when it's not, it's probably due to the particular compiler not having enough optimizations rather than a language flaw.
2017-01-10T01:07:29Z nicdev` is now known as nicdeb
2017-01-10T01:07:39Z kodnin quit (Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com)
2017-01-10T01:07:39Z nicdeb is now known as nicdev
2017-01-10T01:07:49Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-10T01:07:59Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-10T01:15:01Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T01:15:38Z eschatologist: Symbolics even had a vector processor add-on for the 3600 series. One or several boards with Weitek FPUs and some libraries for representing matrices and moving data to/from vector processor memory.
2017-01-10T01:16:17Z eschatologist: And then the Framethrower for the XL series had similar functionality for 2D and 3D graphics. (It did live 1080p HD in 1990.)
2017-01-10T01:16:45Z eschatologist: (That was the era when Symbolics, not SGI, was the dominant vendor at SIGGRAPH.)
2017-01-10T01:17:41Z LooneyTunes quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-10T01:18:07Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-10T01:20:22Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-10T01:22:26Z arpunk left #lisp
2017-01-10T01:23:28Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-10T01:30:08Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T01:31:29Z rumbler31: i've read about skiplists recently, but I don't really see how to implement them in lisp
2017-01-10T01:32:31Z rumbler31: i understand that building a new list with new content, and making the cdr of your new list equal to some exisiting list will result in the lists sharing content, but other than that
2017-01-10T01:34:02Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-10T01:34:37Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-10T01:36:23Z zooey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T01:36:37Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-10T01:36:52Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-10T01:37:03Z kodnin quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-10T01:40:36Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-10T01:42:01Z akkad: so is there any short hand to reference a clos object? say in cases where I want to normalize an object store and instead of sticking in the value n times, just a pointer to an object of said value?
2017-01-10T01:43:37Z Bike: like... put it in a variable? i don't understand.
2017-01-10T01:44:27Z akkad: like a foreign key referencing a value in another table.
2017-01-10T01:44:35Z akkad: rdbms/sql
2017-01-10T01:45:09Z akkad: in the case of an object store. trying to reduce redundant objects that are of the same value
2017-01-10T01:47:46Z jasom: akkad: you can test by eq to see if two objects are the same; if you want to efficiently remove duplicates you'll have to assign a unique id field to each object
2017-01-10T01:51:40Z akkad: as a slot? ok. thanks.
2017-01-10T01:59:44Z yeticry_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-10T02:00:26Z yeticry joined #lisp
2017-01-10T02:03:36Z dmiles quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T02:04:25Z dmiles joined #lisp
2017-01-10T02:12:10Z dddddd quit (Quit: Hasta otra..)
2017-01-10T02:13:35Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T02:16:37Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T02:39:14Z yincha quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T02:39:14Z br4in quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T02:39:37Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T02:43:51Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T02:44:42Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-10T02:53:40Z lexicall joined #lisp
2017-01-10T02:56:31Z Xal joined #lisp
2017-01-10T02:58:05Z lexicall: hi, is the Elephant database ready to use in current SBCL release?  I tried it on both SBCL and Clozure CL, both failed on OPERATION-ERROR when I executed "open-store" command.
2017-01-10T02:58:32Z lexicall: in their official website they said no, but quicklisp has it.
2017-01-10T02:58:45Z lexicall: so any chance, I wander.
2017-01-10T02:59:11Z lexicall: replace(wander, wonder)
2017-01-10T02:59:26Z akkad: lexicall: i gave up and used manardb. which works fine
2017-01-10T03:00:25Z lexicall: akkad: i would head for that, too. but i'm curious about the elephant's model of database.
2017-01-10T03:01:23Z lexicall: akkad: and thanks, if elephant's not gonna work, i will try manardb.
2017-01-10T03:01:41Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-10T03:02:45Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T03:04:41Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-10T03:05:28Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-10T03:05:43Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T03:05:45Z akkad: oh right. nvm. misremembered elephant. was thinking rucksack
2017-01-10T03:06:03Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2017-01-10T03:09:30Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-10T03:10:03Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-10T03:10:33Z akkad: so with (defclass foo () ((bar :initarg :bar :accessor bar))) would't (setf (bar foo-obj) :baz) be equivalent to (setf (slot-value foo-obj 'bar) :baz)?
2017-01-10T03:11:43Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T03:12:09Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-10T03:12:17Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T03:12:53Z Bike: if there aren't other methods defined, yeah.
2017-01-10T03:14:04Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-10T03:20:21Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-10T03:23:44Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T03:24:44Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-10T03:25:11Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-10T03:25:48Z travv0 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-10T03:29:25Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T03:30:10Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-10T03:31:21Z Mynock^_^ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T03:32:50Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-10T03:33:11Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-10T03:33:26Z TDT quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-10T03:35:50Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-10T03:38:29Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-10T03:45:30Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-10T03:47:34Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-10T03:55:31Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T03:56:56Z shka_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T03:57:45Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T03:59:33Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-10T03:59:33Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-10T04:00:22Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T04:03:14Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-10T04:04:33Z Devon quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T04:06:40Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-10T04:10:12Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-10T04:12:14Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-10T04:15:57Z ahungry:  hi all, I am using the SBCL contrib sb-cover in a package.  Everything works fine if I either quickload my package/system in a fresh SBCL instance, or if I load an instance and explicitly (require 'sb-cover) before saving the core.  I'm not attempting to get it working in a pre-saved core that didn't explicitly (require 'sb-cover) and it fails to quickload my package with "The name "SB-COVER" does not designate any package.".  Any
2017-01-10T04:15:57Z ahungry:  advice on the best way to have a defsystem explicitly require an sbcl contrib?
2017-01-10T04:17:11Z Guest6344 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-10T04:21:12Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-10T04:21:36Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T04:22:55Z Bike: i think you can just put :sb-cover in the dependencies and asdf will figure out that it's an sbcl contrib.
2017-01-10T04:25:01Z akkad: a slot of :allocation :class set to a value on one instances of a class, should it not also exist on a newly created object of that same class?
2017-01-10T04:25:04Z Bike: durr, i've done it myself. yeah just put it in as a dependency.
2017-01-10T04:25:24Z Bike: like #+sbcl #:sb-cover
2017-01-10T04:25:33Z Bike: or no conditional if it's sbcl specific anyway, i guess.
2017-01-10T04:25:53Z svetlyak40wt quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T04:26:30Z Bike: akkad: think so.
2017-01-10T04:28:16Z ahungry: Thanks Bike, I'll give it a shot.  I couldn't get it to work well the other day, but maybe it was an unrelated problem.
2017-01-10T04:31:43Z ahungry: Ah yes, that was it, if I try that, I receive SB-INT:EXTENSION-FAILURE "Don't know how to REQUIRE sb-rotate-byte." (if I attempt to add :sb-cover to my asdf file)
2017-01-10T04:31:45Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T04:32:04Z ahungry: I attempted to add :sb-rotate-byte as well, but that doesnt do anything
2017-01-10T04:32:18Z ahungry: I think sb-cover must attempt to (require 'sb-rotate-byte) or something
2017-01-10T04:33:09Z Bike: according to the asd it depends on sb-md5, which depends on sb-rotate-byte. do you not have that contrib?
2017-01-10T04:33:16Z ahungry: Setting up my core like this works fine: https://github.com/ahungry/ahungry-fleece/blob/master/Makefile.in#L9 , but that isn't good for setting this up as a roswell installable package
2017-01-10T04:34:45Z ahungry: I believe I have it, as loading via direct require is fine (when done directly). Maybe my quicklisp / asdf system is not looking in the right place for sbcl contribs
2017-01-10T04:36:11Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T04:39:56Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-10T04:40:49Z lexicall quit (Quit: Ah, my macbook is gonna sleep!)
2017-01-10T04:40:53Z ahungry: hi beach, good morning; thanks for reviewing my code the other night (I had went away shortly after linking it)
2017-01-10T04:41:11Z beach: Sure.
2017-01-10T04:47:25Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-10T04:49:39Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T04:54:18Z Mynock^_^ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T04:55:15Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-10T04:56:02Z antonis quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T05:03:12Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-10T05:06:10Z dmaj joined #lisp
2017-01-10T05:06:55Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T05:11:44Z dave___ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T05:11:58Z dave___: hi
2017-01-10T05:12:13Z beach: Hello dave___.
2017-01-10T05:13:12Z Blukunfando quit
2017-01-10T05:13:58Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-10T05:17:32Z Harag quit (Quit: Harag)
2017-01-10T05:19:13Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T05:25:49Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-10T05:42:54Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-10T05:43:24Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-10T05:48:01Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T05:50:26Z Bourne joined #lisp
2017-01-10T05:55:16Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-10T06:00:02Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-10T06:07:28Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-10T06:11:48Z dave___ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-10T06:14:05Z scottj joined #lisp
2017-01-10T06:15:11Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-10T06:15:50Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-10T06:19:31Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T06:21:00Z Guest82 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T06:21:32Z whiteline joined #lisp
2017-01-10T06:28:46Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T06:29:48Z Guest82 quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-10T06:32:56Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-10T06:35:39Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T06:40:16Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-10T06:41:21Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T06:44:54Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-10T06:56:40Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-10T07:00:15Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-10T07:03:36Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T07:03:40Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-10T07:04:23Z fitzsim quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-10T07:05:20Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-10T07:05:35Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T07:05:40Z nrp3c quit (Read error: error:1408F119:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:decryption failed or bad record mac)
2017-01-10T07:07:07Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-10T07:08:45Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-10T07:10:15Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-10T07:16:42Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T07:18:05Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T07:20:13Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-10T07:20:20Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-10T07:22:17Z svetlyak40wt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T07:28:08Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-10T07:38:05Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-10T07:39:11Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T07:41:39Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-10T07:43:15Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-10T07:43:33Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-10T07:47:17Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-10T07:47:50Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-10T07:48:37Z Xal quit (Quit: Quitting)
2017-01-10T07:50:39Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-10T07:52:06Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T07:54:44Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-10T07:56:01Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T07:57:55Z ben_vulpes joined #lisp
2017-01-10T07:58:17Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-10T08:00:13Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:02:55Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:06:14Z Guest-ru joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:06:15Z Bourne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T08:07:16Z d4ryus1 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:08:06Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T08:08:46Z Guest-ru is now known as Bourne
2017-01-10T08:10:05Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T08:10:13Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:10:47Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:11:39Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:14:52Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-10T08:17:44Z ben_vulpes left #lisp
2017-01-10T08:20:13Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:21:41Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:22:14Z trader joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:24:11Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T08:28:58Z jdz: ahungry: I think the correct way is to put (:require "sb-ccover") in the :depends-on list.
2017-01-10T08:29:31Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T08:29:46Z Oddity quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-10T08:29:52Z jdz: (sans the typos)
2017-01-10T08:30:16Z seg_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:30:35Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T08:31:05Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:39:50Z rjid quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-10T08:40:06Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T08:44:44Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:45:37Z scottj quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-10T08:46:57Z Bike quit (Quit: maw)
2017-01-10T08:51:47Z HeyFlash joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:54:21Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:56:29Z Oddity joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:56:30Z Oddity quit (Changing host)
2017-01-10T08:56:30Z Oddity joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:58:54Z HDurer joined #lisp
2017-01-10T08:58:54Z HDurer quit (Changing host)
2017-01-10T08:58:54Z HDurer joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:01:55Z yeticry_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:03:29Z trader quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-10T09:04:49Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T09:06:08Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:07:11Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T09:09:50Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:10:01Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-10T09:25:47Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:30:20Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:30:28Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:32:35Z seg_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T09:34:52Z xristos quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:35:18Z copec quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:35:18Z rpav quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:35:57Z oGMo joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z QualityAddict quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z AntiSpamMeta quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z fjl_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z norfumpit quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z omilu quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z gabot quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z killmaster quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z impaktor quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z vhost- quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z unbalancedparen quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z jackdaniel quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z nullman quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z Ober quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z derrida quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z sigjuice quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z payphone quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z sohail quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z rjeli quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:17Z fluxit quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:18Z knobo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:37:23Z Ober joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:23Z impaktor joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:25Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:25Z jackdaniel joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:26Z fluxit joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:27Z rjeli joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:32Z sigjuice joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:33Z knobo joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:33Z nullman joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:35Z payphone joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:35Z sohail joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:35Z sohail quit (Changing host)
2017-01-10T09:37:35Z sohail joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:35Z copec joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:38Z fjl_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:39Z killmaster joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:41Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:37:49Z vhost- joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:38:04Z unbalancedparen joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:38:24Z derrida joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:38:25Z derrida quit (Changing host)
2017-01-10T09:38:25Z derrida joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:38:47Z tomaw quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:38:47Z tilpner quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:38:47Z makufiru quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:38:47Z nimiux quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:38:47Z razzy quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:38:47Z eMBee quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:38:47Z ck_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:38:47Z forgot quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:38:47Z Kaisyu quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:38:47Z habs quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:38:47Z yeltzooo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:38:47Z mood quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:39:04Z razzy joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:04Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:04Z habs joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:04Z nimiux joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:06Z pareidolia quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:39:06Z Nikotiini quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:39:06Z flip214 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:39:06Z pankracy_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:39:06Z phadthai quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:39:06Z brandonz quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:39:06Z aap quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:39:06Z TMA quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:39:07Z eagleflo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:39:07Z jself quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:39:07Z joga quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:39:07Z tokenrove quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:39:07Z luis quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T09:39:12Z flip214_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:13Z TMA joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:13Z pankracy joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:13Z joga joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:16Z eagleflo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:20Z phadthai joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:22Z yeltzooo joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:32Z tilpner joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:34Z norfumpit joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:36Z brandonz joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:42Z tokenrove joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:47Z makufiru joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:52Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:39:58Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:40:50Z gabot joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:41:23Z jself joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:41:33Z ggherdov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-10T09:41:39Z luis joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:42:57Z mood joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:43:05Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T09:43:20Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-10T09:44:02Z ggherdov joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:44:22Z aap joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:47:21Z ggherdov quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-10T09:48:54Z ggherdov joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:49:39Z arrdem quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T09:49:43Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:49:52Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:50:02Z arrdem joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:50:25Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:52:08Z loke: Good morning Lisp!
2017-01-10T09:53:28Z djohn joined #lisp
2017-01-10T09:53:56Z beach: Hello loke.
2017-01-10T09:54:05Z loke: Hello beach from Paris :-)
2017-01-10T09:54:11Z beach: Yes, I remember.
2017-01-10T09:54:37Z loke: It's bloody cold here.
2017-01-10T09:54:47Z beach: It usually is.
2017-01-10T09:55:31Z loke: I
2017-01-10T09:55:35Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T09:55:43Z loke: I've been here is summer, it's nicer then :-)
2017-01-10T09:55:59Z loke: At least it isn't raining now, as opposed to yesterday.
2017-01-10T09:56:01Z beach: Right.
2017-01-10T09:56:52Z beach: pjb: "Bourmignon".  That's cute (so to speak). :)
2017-01-10T09:57:48Z loke tries to actually spell pjb's name and fails spectactularly.
2017-01-10T09:58:07Z loke: Bourignon?
2017-01-10T09:58:17Z beach: Nope.
2017-01-10T09:58:28Z beach: Bourguignon.
2017-01-10T09:59:17Z loke: Wow.
2017-01-10T10:00:16Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-10T10:00:36Z loke seriously cracked the screen on my Nexus phone. I googled for phone repar places in Paris and there are quite a few. How can I tell which ones to ask?
2017-01-10T10:00:52Z loke: beach: Any reputable site where I can check reviews of such things?
2017-01-10T10:01:03Z beach: I am not the right person to ask.
2017-01-10T10:01:13Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2017-01-10T10:01:20Z z0d: probably not the right channel either :->
2017-01-10T10:01:54Z loke: z0d: I was hoping Beach would be the right person to ask :-)
2017-01-10T10:02:50Z beach: Don't you have colleagues in the office?  They probably know.
2017-01-10T10:03:27Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-10T10:04:36Z loke: beach: I do, and I will, I guess :-)
2017-01-10T10:05:36Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-10T10:06:25Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T10:06:26Z Bourne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T10:06:43Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-10T10:07:24Z eMBee joined #lisp
2017-01-10T10:08:06Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-10T10:10:14Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-10T10:14:41Z djohn quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T10:17:13Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T10:17:50Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-10T10:20:38Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-10T10:26:35Z karswell` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T10:27:30Z karswell` joined #lisp
2017-01-10T10:30:28Z seg_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T10:30:38Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-10T10:37:07Z dim joined #lisp
2017-01-10T10:42:23Z dim quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-10T10:44:55Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T10:50:05Z freehck joined #lisp
2017-01-10T10:50:37Z Bourne joined #lisp
2017-01-10T10:50:42Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-10T10:50:54Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-10T10:52:21Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T10:52:34Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-10T11:00:31Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T11:07:13Z svetlyak40wt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T11:07:26Z eschatologist quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T11:23:03Z svetlyak40wt joined #lisp
2017-01-10T11:24:37Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-10T11:30:34Z multiplemedal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T11:31:10Z eschatologist joined #lisp
2017-01-10T11:32:08Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-10T11:39:45Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-10T11:40:00Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-10T11:46:32Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T11:47:08Z groovy2shoes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T11:53:32Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2017-01-10T11:56:32Z itruslove quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-10T11:58:20Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-10T12:01:21Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T12:06:26Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-10T12:10:26Z xuxuru quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T12:11:05Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T12:16:23Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2017-01-10T12:18:01Z svetlyak40wt quit
2017-01-10T12:20:57Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-10T12:25:56Z multiplemedal joined #lisp
2017-01-10T12:27:42Z fulon quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-10T12:32:36Z john_g_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T12:34:21Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-10T12:38:55Z jmarciano2 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T12:39:31Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-10T12:41:26Z jmarciano quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-10T12:47:35Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-10T12:48:52Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-10T12:51:04Z KZiemian joined #lisp
2017-01-10T12:51:35Z KZiemian: Hello World!
2017-01-10T12:51:52Z KZiemian: Does anyone use IRC client in Emacs?
2017-01-10T12:52:10Z KZiemian: If so, can you recomended one to me?
2017-01-10T12:53:11Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-10T12:54:00Z Cymew: rcirc works fine for me. But I think you'd get better responses in #emacs.
2017-01-10T12:54:02Z Xach: KZiemian: that is not topical for #lisp - try #emacs.
2017-01-10T12:54:51Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-10T12:55:02Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T12:55:54Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-10T12:56:00Z jamtho quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-10T12:57:34Z KZiemian: Xach: Thank you, I don't know that is such channel
2017-01-10T12:57:52Z Xach: I assure there is
2017-01-10T12:58:56Z dmaj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T12:59:28Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-10T12:59:37Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:01:52Z test1600_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T13:07:12Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T13:09:52Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:10:31Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:11:07Z phoe_: I have a condition type FOO-TYPE and another type FOO-ERROR with supertypes (FOO-TYPE ERROR).
2017-01-10T13:11:57Z phoe_: What combination of HANDLER-BIND and HANDLER-CASE should I use to handle them to assure that handling instances of FOO-ERROR will unwind the stack but handling instances of FOO-TYPE and not FOO-ERROR will not unwind the stack?
2017-01-10T13:13:11Z ak5 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T13:13:39Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:14:02Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:14:31Z ak51 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T13:14:52Z ak5 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T13:15:29Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:19:38Z loke: HANDLER-BIND are handled before HANDLER-CASE and does not unwind. I'm pretty sure.
2017-01-10T13:20:07Z loke: so HANDLER-BIND you FOO-TYPE, wrapped with a HANDLER-CASE of FOO-ERROR.
2017-01-10T13:22:26Z ak51 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T13:22:53Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:25:12Z creat quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-10T13:25:43Z jmarciano2 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-10T13:26:15Z creat joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:27:55Z loke quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T13:30:32Z phoe_: Aaaaahhhhhhhh.
2017-01-10T13:30:34Z igam joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:30:34Z phoe_: Geez.
2017-01-10T13:30:40Z phoe_: I screwed up when declaring types.
2017-01-10T13:30:46Z phoe_: Half an hour of debugging just to find that.
2017-01-10T13:30:47Z phoe_: <3
2017-01-10T13:31:10Z igam is now known as pjb`
2017-01-10T13:31:16Z pjb` is now known as igam
2017-01-10T13:31:32Z igam is now known as ogamita
2017-01-10T13:32:02Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T13:33:34Z ogamita: phoe_: why declare types? CL can infer types automatically and safely for you!
2017-01-10T13:34:32Z phoe_: ogamita: well, it cannot, in one case.
2017-01-10T13:34:40Z ogamita: Which?
2017-01-10T13:34:40Z beach: ogamita: These are definitions of new condition types, not declarations of existing types.
2017-01-10T13:34:46Z phoe_: when I declare CUSTOM-FOO ERROR as FOO-TYPE and not FOO-ERROR.
2017-01-10T13:35:01Z phoe_: Namely, PEBKAC cases.
2017-01-10T13:35:10Z ogamita: You mean it's a naming error here, not a type error.
2017-01-10T13:35:14Z phoe_: Oh yeah.
2017-01-10T13:35:15Z phoe_: Sorry.
2017-01-10T13:35:23Z phoe_: I put the wrong symbol in the wrong place.
2017-01-10T13:35:29Z phoe_: Or rather, wrong symbol in the right place.
2017-01-10T13:35:29Z ogamita: And yes, sometimes you have to name a type, like to signal a condition…
2017-01-10T13:36:12Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:42:44Z xristos joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:45:56Z knobo: When loading a system with quicload in emacs/slime and the compilation fail, I want to jumpt to the source file and location where it failed
2017-01-10T13:45:59Z knobo: Is that possible?
2017-01-10T13:46:23Z travv0` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T13:47:30Z jackdaniel: try "v" in the debugger when the cursor is above the frame
2017-01-10T13:48:27Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:48:51Z Xach: That is not always possible, because it might be from a previous warning that only caused the build to fail at the end.
2017-01-10T13:48:58Z Xach: In other words, there is no debugger
2017-01-10T13:48:59Z knobo: right.
2017-01-10T13:49:06Z Xach: And the warning may be some distance back in the scroll
2017-01-10T13:49:18Z knobo: oh.. there is a debugger, but the frame is pointing to somehere else.
2017-01-10T13:49:43Z knobo: But in the repl, the message: " Line: 49, Column: -1, File-Position: 1085" shows up.
2017-01-10T13:50:01Z ogamita: And when the error occurs while compiling, the backtrace is that of the compiler, not of the source.
2017-01-10T13:50:02Z Xach: That's enough info to manually jump
2017-01-10T13:50:03Z knobo: So, somewhere the information is, but it is not accessable
2017-01-10T13:50:11Z Xach: It would be nice if it was automagic
2017-01-10T13:50:11Z ak51 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T13:50:16Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:50:31Z knobo: yes, I want magic :)
2017-01-10T13:50:31Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:50:35Z ogamita: At best, the compiler has a stream to the source that is positionned close to the error, and slime can jump to the position indicated by the stream when you inspect it.
2017-01-10T13:50:41Z ogamita: But it's manual.
2017-01-10T13:50:41Z glamas joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:51:00Z knobo: But as I'm magical I can just jump manually, and it is still magic :)
2017-01-10T13:51:22Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T13:51:43Z Xach: ha
2017-01-10T13:51:47Z Xach: That is the spirit!
2017-01-10T13:53:39Z KZiemian quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-10T13:53:44Z ak51 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T13:54:11Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:55:12Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-10T13:55:22Z glamas quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-10T13:59:25Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-10T14:10:53Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-10T14:14:15Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-10T14:18:16Z otjura joined #lisp
2017-01-10T14:19:24Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-10T14:20:08Z loke: Re
2017-01-10T14:23:55Z travv0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T14:26:53Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T14:27:08Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-10T14:32:12Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T14:33:10Z rumbler31: how does one go about implementing skip lists in lisp?
2017-01-10T14:33:29Z fitzsim joined #lisp
2017-01-10T14:34:10Z ogamita: the simpliest would be to use cons cells.
2017-01-10T14:34:51Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-10T14:34:53Z phoe_: rumbler31: http://ticki.github.io/blog/skip-lists-done-right/
2017-01-10T14:34:59Z phoe_: look, these diagrams have cons cells
2017-01-10T14:35:16Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-10T14:35:19Z ogamita: rumbler31: (loop for cell ON '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) by (function cddr) collect cell) #| --> ((1 2 . #1=(3 4 . #2=(5 6 . #3=(7 8 . #4=(9))))) #1# #2# #3# #4#) |#
2017-01-10T14:35:27Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T14:35:36Z ogamita: Yeah, be sure to (setf *print-circle* t) when you deal with conses. :-)
2017-01-10T14:36:18Z ogamita: Notice how the whole list is in the first car of the result above, but in the following cars, you have #1# #2#, etc, that points to the following even cells in the original list.
2017-01-10T14:38:23Z ogamita: rumbler31: the important point is to change your mindset. Now, instead of dealing with lists at the element level using keywords such as :for e :IN list, you must deal with cons cells, with keywords such as :for cell :ON list
2017-01-10T14:40:20Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-10T14:41:12Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-10T14:42:19Z otjura quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-10T14:46:15Z Younder: The natural structure for cons cells is a directed tree. A list is just a degenerate case. I find it useful to keep that in mind.
2017-01-10T14:46:22Z dlowe: uh, that's not a skip list, ogamita
2017-01-10T14:47:24Z beach: rumbler31: I have some very old code I can show you.
2017-01-10T14:47:25Z dlowe: but yeah, cons cells
2017-01-10T14:47:34Z beach: I wouldn't write it like that these days.
2017-01-10T14:47:50Z Younder: Circular references are possible. But I wouldn't recommend it as it messes up garbage collection.
2017-01-10T14:48:49Z dlowe: maybe in perl it does
2017-01-10T14:49:04Z dlowe: it's fine in nearly all lisp implementations
2017-01-10T14:49:05Z ogamita: dlowe: no, it's an example of manipulating cons cells.
2017-01-10T14:49:08Z loke: Younder: In what way does circular references mess up GC? What lisp are you using that has a broken garbage collector?
2017-01-10T14:49:13Z dlowe: ogamita: oh, ok. nvm.
2017-01-10T14:49:15Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T14:49:36Z Devon joined #lisp
2017-01-10T14:49:37Z ogamita: Younder: it doesn't mess lisp GC, only other languages GCs that are refcount based, how silly is that!
2017-01-10T14:50:17Z ogamita: loke: but you're right I should try harder. Next time I'll provide a whole implementation of skip lists in a single irc one-liner.
2017-01-10T14:50:20Z rumbler31: ok.. so uh
2017-01-10T14:50:45Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-10T14:50:52Z dlowe: ogamita: you snarked at the wrong person :p
2017-01-10T14:51:01Z rumbler31: as i traverse this and wish to make new links, then really it comes down to setting the cdr and car of a cons to be whichever new conses I need them to link to
2017-01-10T14:51:54Z rumbler31: i'm sure this probably seems very simple, but I don't know why it hasn't clicked.
2017-01-10T14:52:42Z xuxuru quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-10T14:53:28Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T14:53:39Z loke: That's find. I'll happily accept the snark since I tend to be snarky too sometimes. I deserve it.
2017-01-10T14:54:13Z Amplituhedron quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-10T14:56:15Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-10T14:57:36Z ogamita: loke: Sorry. Indeed I meant dlowe.  You're too Hamilton-close :-)
2017-01-10T14:58:19Z dlowe: ... Hamming?
2017-01-10T14:59:29Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-10T15:02:17Z ogamita: Ok, I'm tired, after a 2-week too short Holidays.
2017-01-10T15:03:01Z dlowe: Get some rest. If you don't have your health, you don't have anything
2017-01-10T15:05:44Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:06:30Z bigos quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-10T15:06:43Z fulon joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:10:25Z Younder quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T15:13:30Z Younder joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:13:37Z phoe_: ^
2017-01-10T15:14:05Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T15:15:14Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:16:12Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:18:19Z impaktor left #lisp
2017-01-10T15:18:23Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:18:27Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-10T15:20:39Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:21:59Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:28:58Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:29:31Z ak51 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T15:32:34Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-10T15:33:19Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:34:52Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T15:35:13Z loke: ogamita: Where did you go on the holidays?
2017-01-10T15:35:23Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:37:21Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T15:39:18Z dlowe: #lispcafe, please.
2017-01-10T15:42:17Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:43:55Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:43:56Z oGMo is now known as rpav
2017-01-10T15:46:07Z Younder: So #lispcafe is a offtopic area?
2017-01-10T15:47:32Z dlowe: that's the idea
2017-01-10T15:47:42Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T15:48:10Z impaktor joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:48:22Z dlowe: ##lisp is for other and any lisps
2017-01-10T15:48:52Z dlowe: http://cliki.net/irc
2017-01-10T15:49:43Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T15:51:37Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-10T15:52:11Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:52:48Z EdwardCoffin joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:53:50Z axion: Is there a way to list new Common Lisp repositories on Github, and secondly, is there a way to make it an RSS feed if so?
2017-01-10T15:54:09Z rpav: yeah i already have that RSS'd
2017-01-10T15:54:25Z axion: Oh how so?
2017-01-10T15:54:34Z rpav: http://planet.lisp.org/github.atom
2017-01-10T15:55:14Z axion: Thanks.
2017-01-10T15:55:24Z jurov: many projects are on gitlab, not github
2017-01-10T15:55:29Z axion: I actually just checked that site before, and didn't see mention of that feed
2017-01-10T15:55:36Z axion: Wonder how you came across it :)
2017-01-10T15:55:48Z rpav: iirc Xach posted it awhile back
2017-01-10T15:55:59Z rpav: possibly created it, no idea heh
2017-01-10T15:56:11Z dlowe: I have it rssed too :)
2017-01-10T15:56:53Z dlowe: honestly, though, I hit something interesting on it ~never
2017-01-10T15:57:01Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T15:57:04Z dlowe: it's almost entirely trash
2017-01-10T15:58:52Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T15:59:06Z Younder: Well should get a
2017-01-10T15:59:17Z Younder: back to my work on lineedit
2017-01-10T16:01:05Z Xach: dlowe: when i see something that sounds interesting, it's usually just a stub :(
2017-01-10T16:01:29Z dlowe: yeah. I'm guilty of making stubs as anyone
2017-01-10T16:02:02Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-10T16:02:16Z Xach: NO! projects must spring forth fully formed, documented, and ready to run
2017-01-10T16:02:40Z ogamita: loke: I went to iMac-land, saw some Common Lisp hills ;-)
2017-01-10T16:03:41Z ogamita: axion: github and gitlab have APIs, so I guess it should be possible to do something.  Even better if you do it in CL!
2017-01-10T16:04:52Z ogamita: Stubs remain as local gits. You can always push when you make your first commits.
2017-01-10T16:06:23Z PuercoPop: Once in a while there is an interesting proyect, I stumbled into cl-hamt that way.
2017-01-10T16:06:42Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-10T16:06:46Z axion: ogamita: Your prose is familiar. Why the name change?
2017-01-10T16:07:22Z PuercoPop: Today, the thing of note is that rtoy appears to have moved series to github (and that series can be loaded with ASDF, news to me at least)
2017-01-10T16:08:10Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-10T16:12:26Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T16:12:47Z dyelar joined #lisp
2017-01-10T16:15:50Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-10T16:16:04Z ogamita: axion: depending on the point of access.
2017-01-10T16:16:22Z ogamita: axion: compare /whois pjb with /whois ogamita
2017-01-10T16:17:07Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-10T16:17:09Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-10T16:17:43Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-10T16:18:49Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-10T16:20:02Z axion: ah
2017-01-10T16:22:31Z bigos quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T16:22:55Z ogamita: axion: eg. beach = playa = strandh depending on the point of access too.
2017-01-10T16:24:17Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-10T16:27:16Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T16:32:36Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T16:35:41Z beach: ogamita: "spiaggia" rather than "strandh"
2017-01-10T16:36:37Z ogamita: Right.
2017-01-10T16:37:16Z ak51 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T16:37:20Z ogamita: Not to say that XMPP doesn't have some improvements over IRC…
2017-01-10T16:37:44Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T16:37:54Z swflint quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2017-01-10T16:37:58Z dlowe: I just use a znc bouncer to keep my session alive
2017-01-10T16:38:10Z beach: Here is the current state of our paper on implementing the sequence functions: http://metamodular.com/sequence-functions.pdf
2017-01-10T16:38:21Z beach: Not done yet, but significant progress has been made.
2017-01-10T16:38:44Z john_g_: hi folks, i'm wanting to pick up a functional language to expand my brain past (long time imperative dev), im looking for some guidance to picking a lisp variant to start with, if lisp is indeed a good first choice
2017-01-10T16:38:45Z beach: We intend to submit it to ELS2017.
2017-01-10T16:39:16Z beach: john_g_: This channel is about Common Lisp, which is not a particularly "functional" language in that sense of the word.
2017-01-10T16:40:12Z beach: john_g_: On the other hand, if you want a multi-paradigm language that does support functional programming, and which has a better object-oriented system than you might be used to, then Common Lisp could be for you.
2017-01-10T16:40:35Z beach: john_g_: It will certainly expand your views, either way.
2017-01-10T16:41:13Z john_g_: hrm, im not adverse to having an object system, i just don't want to mentally project my OO experience onto it, i guess
2017-01-10T16:41:37Z ogamita: beach: couldn't a compiler include a generalization of with-end, for any constant expression in the loop whose values could be of different type, or that determines a conditional?
2017-01-10T16:42:23Z ogamita: s/type/types/
2017-01-10T16:42:54Z beach: ogamita: Sounds right.  We haven't thought too much about constant expressions.
2017-01-10T16:44:02Z ogamita: For values determining conditionals, it would be trivial.  For values of different types, I guess the compiler could even perform a kind of symbolic type analysis to determine if it's useful (or for what types), to split the loops.
2017-01-10T16:44:11Z beach: john_g_: Common Lisp is a very pragmatic language, and it has some excellent implementations that will generate very fast code.  But it does not enforce many of the constraints that one typically thinks of when one hears "functional programming language" , such as absence of side effects.
2017-01-10T16:45:02Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-10T16:45:20Z beach: ogamita: Well, for this particular work, we assume the compiler can not make such decisions, so we always duplicate the loop.  Then the compiler may remove code that it can prove will never be executed.
2017-01-10T16:45:20Z ogamita: well, constant expression is just a generalization for free variables. (end is a free variable in that loop).
2017-01-10T16:45:35Z john_g_: oh i see. is writing stateless code simple/idiomatic , or would i be fighting things?
2017-01-10T16:45:43Z ogamita: beach: yes.  I was thinking more about new compilers such as sicl ;-)
2017-01-10T16:46:04Z ogamita: john_g_: perfectly idiomatic, and rather simple.
2017-01-10T16:46:12Z beach: john_g_: It is idiomatic.  But it is mostly used in macro expanders, and for code that for some other reason needs to be purely functional.
2017-01-10T16:46:29Z beach: ogamita: Yes, different paper. :)
2017-01-10T16:46:31Z ogamita: john_g_: on the other hand, since we have both world available, we often use mutation to implement a function, but then consider the result immutable.
2017-01-10T16:47:02Z swflint joined #lisp
2017-01-10T16:47:22Z ogamita: beach: it'd be interesting to compare a few sequence functions implemented this way on exiting implementations with what they offer.
2017-01-10T16:47:25Z beach: ogamita: http://metamodular.com/path-replication.pdf
2017-01-10T16:47:47Z beach: ogamita: Excellent.  Before the submission, or any time?
2017-01-10T16:48:16Z ogamita: :-) I'm quite buzy these times…
2017-01-10T16:48:18Z beach: ogamita: There is a messy implementation in the SICL repository.  If you need to, I can point out to you what system is relevant.
2017-01-10T16:48:38Z beach: ogamita: Let me know when you want to do this, and I'll assist as much as I can.
2017-01-10T16:48:51Z beach: ogamita: I am busy too, with, er, paper submissions. :)
2017-01-10T16:50:44Z ogamita: But you have slaves^W students?
2017-01-10T16:51:02Z HeyFlash quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-10T16:53:08Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T16:54:48Z emii1l joined #lisp
2017-01-10T16:54:49Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-10T16:54:49Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-10T16:54:49Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-10T16:55:01Z emii1l left #lisp
2017-01-10T16:55:32Z seg_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T16:56:40Z beach: ogamita: I do not.
2017-01-10T16:57:18Z beach: I have an excellent co-author, though. :)
2017-01-10T16:57:24Z ogamita: A mixed blessing then :-/
2017-01-10T16:59:13Z Younder: beach are you referring to DrMeister?
2017-01-10T17:00:05Z Younder: I have noticed clasp uses SICL.
2017-01-10T17:00:15Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-10T17:00:24Z ogamita: Younder: Irène Durand
2017-01-10T17:00:39Z ogamita: cf. the two past references.
2017-01-10T17:00:39Z beach: No, I am referring to the person who is mentioned under the title of the paper that I posted the first link to.
2017-01-10T17:00:56Z Younder: oh yeah
2017-01-10T17:01:43Z Younder: I probably should have that somewhere here but I am just back from vacation. Sorry
2017-01-10T17:02:14Z tanuzzo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-10T17:04:25Z beach: Younder: Yes, when drmeister figured out that he needed a faster compiler for Clasp than the one he has written, he turned to Cleavir, the compilation framework that I developed as part of the SICL project.  Apparently, it is working fairly well for him.  And now, jackdaniel has hinted that he is going to try to use Cleavir as well, in order to create an alternative compiler for ECL.
2017-01-10T17:04:27Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T17:05:12Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-10T17:05:19Z beach: As far as I can tell, Cleavir is the only attempt at an implementation-independent compiler framework for Common Lisp.
2017-01-10T17:06:09Z beach: It is fun, but the fact that it is implementation-independent (or rather customizable by the implementation) makes my life an order of magnitude harder than if I could write a compiler for a particular implementation.
2017-01-10T17:06:23Z Younder: Thanks for the heads up.
2017-01-10T17:06:32Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T17:06:50Z beach: Yeah, well, it was for the benefits of all those #lisp participants who haven't heard me talk about it for some time. :)
2017-01-10T17:07:11Z dlowe: beach: it was clearly a great idea whose time had come
2017-01-10T17:07:21Z beach: dlowe: Thanks!
2017-01-10T17:08:04Z beach: I think I was lucky that Clasp needed something like that.  Otherwise, my projects tend not to be very widely used. :)
2017-01-10T17:08:44Z beach: But that's fine.  They serve as a vehicle for writing papers, which I use to justify my salary.
2017-01-10T17:08:59Z Younder: lol
2017-01-10T17:09:26Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T17:10:09Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-10T17:15:53Z rebelshrug quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-10T17:19:33Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-10T17:19:35Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T17:19:45Z specbot joined #lisp
2017-01-10T17:23:56Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-10T17:28:05Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-10T17:28:44Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-10T17:31:08Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-10T17:40:38Z tokenrove quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-10T17:41:15Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T17:44:23Z tokenrove joined #lisp
2017-01-10T17:48:12Z phoe_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-10T17:49:46Z jasom: beach: how does Cleavir support GC?
2017-01-10T17:50:04Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-10T17:50:37Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-10T17:50:50Z jasom: beach: I've looked at implementing alternative GC algorithms in other lisp compilers and find that I'd have to rewrite significant parts of the compiler if I want to have different semantics than the existing GC.
2017-01-10T17:51:45Z Bike: most of cleavir right now is more abstract stuff. there's GC in sicl but I don't know if things are far enough along to be integrated.
2017-01-10T17:52:55Z Bike: clasp has two GCs to use, so it works on some level, at least
2017-01-10T17:52:58Z Younder: Gc is a problem performance wise for now.-
2017-01-10T17:53:35Z jasom: Bike: I'm thinking things like write-barriers for incremental or concurrent GCs
2017-01-10T17:53:41Z Bike: sure.
2017-01-10T17:56:29Z redcedar quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-10T17:56:47Z redcedar joined #lisp
2017-01-10T17:56:49Z Bike: right now cleavir output is an intermediate representation control flow graph.
2017-01-10T17:57:10Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-10T17:57:11Z Bike: buuuut it's all generic functions, and most of them have a "system" argument to specialize on, so you could have it generate different code based on that.
2017-01-10T17:58:27Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-10T17:59:41Z Younder: I express my ignorance. I still don't really see the limitations of compile-macro.
2017-01-10T17:59:52Z Bike: you mean compiler macros?
2017-01-10T17:59:58Z Younder: yes
2017-01-10T18:00:38Z Bike: can't access information about declarations, or information from flow analysis that can't be done to regular source
2017-01-10T18:00:40Z djohn joined #lisp
2017-01-10T18:01:05Z Younder: Ahh. I knew I was missing something.
2017-01-10T18:06:15Z Guest26 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T18:06:31Z shka_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T18:06:41Z djohn left #lisp
2017-01-10T18:12:07Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T18:12:18Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-10T18:13:41Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T18:13:57Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T18:14:03Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-10T18:23:33Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T18:24:19Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-10T18:29:44Z rjid43 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T18:31:45Z scottj joined #lisp
2017-01-10T18:34:38Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T18:41:04Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-10T18:43:37Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-10T18:43:48Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T18:44:33Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T18:45:41Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-10T18:48:05Z kodnin quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-10T18:48:25Z beach: jasom: Listen to Bike!  I am off to spend time with my (admittedly small) family.
2017-01-10T18:49:07Z theBlackDragon quit (Quit: Boom.)
2017-01-10T18:50:23Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T18:50:44Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2017-01-10T18:50:57Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-10T18:52:11Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T18:52:56Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T18:53:30Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-10T18:58:31Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:00:34Z rjid43 quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-10T19:05:23Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:07:40Z tomaw joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:13:32Z rjid43 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:21:23Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-10T19:23:01Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:25:32Z loke quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T19:27:38Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T19:28:20Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:29:13Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-10T19:29:47Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-10T19:36:24Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:37:16Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T19:37:21Z rjid43 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T19:38:22Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:38:43Z Lord_of_Away quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-10T19:39:38Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T19:40:35Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:41:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:41:22Z rjid43 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:44:29Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-10T19:46:29Z sigjuice quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T19:46:29Z marsjaninzmarsa quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T19:46:29Z heddwch quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T19:46:29Z arjenve quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T19:46:29Z z0d quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T19:46:29Z des_consolado quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-10T19:46:39Z heddwch joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:46:45Z z0d joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:46:45Z des_consolado joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:46:46Z sigjuice joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:47:45Z marsjaninzmarsa joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:52:13Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:55:54Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:59:03Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-10T19:59:47Z kodnin quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-10T19:59:48Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T20:00:13Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T20:01:34Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-10T20:01:48Z LooneyTunes quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-10T20:05:35Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-10T20:09:58Z nullniverse joined #lisp
2017-01-10T20:11:28Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-10T20:12:05Z ym quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-10T20:13:12Z ym joined #lisp
2017-01-10T20:21:02Z nullniverse quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-10T20:28:40Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-10T20:28:53Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T20:33:29Z rjid43 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T20:33:31Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-10T20:38:36Z himmAllRight quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-10T20:40:24Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-10T20:44:35Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-10T20:49:27Z skeuomorf quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T20:58:45Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-10T21:01:27Z PuercoPop: Does anyone know what the relevant CLHS entry is on when can one depend on previous variables in the file to be referred to by the reader for read-time evaluation? (I'm guessing one can't depend on but want to be sure)
2017-01-10T21:01:39Z PuercoPop: It is in relation to this PR https://github.com/mmontone/djula/pull/38/files
2017-01-10T21:02:15Z Bike: i think that code is actually wrong
2017-01-10T21:02:22Z Bike: "If a defconstant form appears as a top level form, the compiler must recognize that name names a constant variable. An implementation may choose to evaluate the value-form at compile time, load time, or both."
2017-01-10T21:02:35Z Bike: so it doesn't have to be available in the compiler.
2017-01-10T21:03:01Z PuercoPop: Bike: so not at read-time right?
2017-01-10T21:03:20Z Bike: not available at read time, no
2017-01-10T21:03:46Z PuercoPop: I'm not sure much is lost if the read-time evaluation is dropped and the previous define-constant wrapped in an eval-when
2017-01-10T21:04:18Z Bike: i think you can just drop the #. and not even add an eval-when and it will be ok
2017-01-10T21:06:02Z fedomedobedogedo joined #lisp
2017-01-10T21:06:07Z fedomedobedogedo is now known as deank
2017-01-10T21:06:54Z Colleen_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T21:07:29Z CORDIC joined #lisp
2017-01-10T21:08:03Z thinkpad quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T21:08:03Z minion quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T21:08:09Z Colleen quit (Quit: See you, space cowboy...)
2017-01-10T21:08:10Z Colleen_ is now known as Colleen
2017-01-10T21:08:17Z minion joined #lisp
2017-01-10T21:08:29Z mtd quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T21:08:30Z kbtr quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T21:08:45Z mtd joined #lisp
2017-01-10T21:08:47Z thinkpad joined #lisp
2017-01-10T21:08:47Z kbtr joined #lisp
2017-01-10T21:09:03Z isoraqathedh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T21:10:19Z isoraqathedh joined #lisp
2017-01-10T21:10:19Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T21:12:05Z PuercoPop: Bike: I just remembered that I submitted a patch to ABCL to give this character a name. aarvid must be on an older ABCL.
2017-01-10T21:12:13Z DKordic quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T21:12:20Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-10T21:13:03Z Bike: well, even if you did that you might not be able to write it as a literal string
2017-01-10T21:13:12Z Bike: er... that doesn't matter. nevermind
2017-01-10T21:14:41Z dlowe: I have the weirdest thing right now. Two strings that are string=, but not string-equal
2017-01-10T21:14:42Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-10T21:14:53Z dlowe: I'm wondering if sbcl at head was broken when I compiled this
2017-01-10T21:15:05Z Bike: string-equal is less case sensitive
2017-01-10T21:15:21Z dlowe: Bike: you got that backwards
2017-01-10T21:15:27Z haom joined #lisp
2017-01-10T21:15:29Z dlowe: er, no you didn't
2017-01-10T21:15:35Z dlowe: damn you logical negation
2017-01-10T21:15:54Z dlowe: anyway, that shouldn't even be possible, right?
2017-01-10T21:16:20Z Bike: (string= "Ab" "ab") NIL, (string-equal "Ab" "ab") T
2017-01-10T21:16:40Z Bike: oh this time i got you backwards
2017-01-10T21:16:41Z Bike: sorry
2017-01-10T21:17:03Z Bike: no, i don't think that's possible
2017-01-10T21:17:07Z dlowe: from REPL: (string= "threshold" "threshold") -> T   (string-equal "threshold" "threshold") -> T
2017-01-10T21:17:21Z dlowe: from IRC: (string= "threshold" "threshold") -> T    (string-equal "threshold" "threshold") -> NIL
2017-01-10T21:17:33Z dlowe: I don't even.
2017-01-10T21:17:48Z Bike: IRC?
2017-01-10T21:18:08Z dlowe: Yeah, this is occurring in the cl-irc library
2017-01-10T21:18:27Z dlowe: and it's just a simple check to see if a message is from your own nick
2017-01-10T21:18:40Z haom quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-10T21:18:51Z _death: store those strings somewhere and inspect them
2017-01-10T21:19:36Z dlowe: good idea
2017-01-10T21:24:19Z dlowe: okay.
2017-01-10T21:24:58Z dlowe: IFF I have a function that calls STRING-EQUAL on a simple-string and an adjustable VECTOR of characters, it returns NIL.
2017-01-10T21:25:12Z dlowe: if I call string-equal on the REPL, it returns T
2017-01-10T21:26:43Z _death: (string-equal "A" (make-array 1 :adjustable t :element-type 'character :initial-element #\a)) ==> T here
2017-01-10T21:27:19Z dlowe: _death: on the repl?
2017-01-10T21:27:49Z flip214_: might be an interpreter vs. compiler difference?
2017-01-10T21:27:57Z _death: yes
2017-01-10T21:28:07Z dlowe: _death: I already said the repl worked.
2017-01-10T21:28:36Z _death: dlowe: well, repl/irc is not a meaningful distinction for me
2017-01-10T21:28:36Z dlowe: (foo (copy-seq a) b) works
2017-01-10T21:29:39Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-10T21:29:55Z _death: maybe debug string-equal itself then
2017-01-10T21:30:17Z dlowe: yeah, I looked into that and it's a pretty deep rabbit hole.
2017-01-10T21:30:17Z Bike: if you know the context the calls are compiled in that could help
2017-01-10T21:30:42Z dlowe: Bike: (defun foo (a b) (string-equal a b)) is enough to trigger the behavior
2017-01-10T21:31:14Z dlowe: so on the REPL, (string-equal a b) => T, but (foo a b) => NIL
2017-01-10T21:31:34Z _death: dlowe: but don't you have the two objects you saved and string-equal results in nil from the repl?  how did you arrive at the simple-string/adjustable-vector hypothesis
2017-01-10T21:31:34Z Bike: not for me. assuming one argument is a simple-string and the other is like death had
2017-01-10T21:31:51Z dlowe: _death: I've saved the two object in a and b
2017-01-10T21:32:00Z dlowe: a is an adjustable vector
2017-01-10T21:32:58Z dlowe: ok, so it's not *just* being adjustable :p
2017-01-10T21:33:45Z _death: dlowe: string-equal uses with-two-strings macro, which according to a comment hacks its arguments into simple-strings.. maybe that's the culprit
2017-01-10T21:34:28Z dlowe: Bike: yeah, it looks like my a string is really special somehow :/
2017-01-10T21:34:58Z Bike: anything interesting from describe?
2017-01-10T21:35:15Z dlowe: Bike: yes!
2017-01-10T21:35:19Z dlowe: it's also displaced.
2017-01-10T21:36:50Z dlowe: that's it.
2017-01-10T21:36:59Z dlowe: (foo (make-array 1 :element-type 'character :adjustable t :displaced-to "ba" :displaced-index-offset 1) "a") will break
2017-01-10T21:37:27Z dlowe: the offset has to be non-zero
2017-01-10T21:38:07Z Bike: still T here.
2017-01-10T21:38:25Z dlowe: yeah, it's T in this other sbcl I'm using
2017-01-10T21:38:34Z _death: what version of sbcl..
2017-01-10T21:38:58Z dlowe: SBCL 1.3.12.56-764b322,
2017-01-10T21:40:35Z dlowe: was HEAD on 2016-12-12
2017-01-10T21:40:49Z _death: seems it was a bug that was fixed in commit bcf8eba
2017-01-10T21:41:15Z _death: (2016-12-19)
2017-01-10T21:41:43Z dlowe: first time being on HEAD ever turned out badly for me
2017-01-10T21:41:47Z Bike: "It ignored displaced-index-offset."
2017-01-10T21:41:59Z dlowe: yeah, I thought it might be something like that.
2017-01-10T21:42:12Z dlowe: welp, sorry folks.
2017-01-10T21:42:25Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-10T21:42:27Z Bike: meh, that was subtle
2017-01-10T21:42:50Z dlowe will remember next time to use both inspect and describe
2017-01-10T21:43:01Z dlowe: in other news, slime-inspect doesn't show displaced arrays
2017-01-10T21:44:05Z _death: dlowe: it's just that your HEAD was a week too early ;)
2017-01-10T21:50:35Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T21:53:21Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-10T21:58:10Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T21:58:51Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T21:58:56Z Devon quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-10T22:04:36Z sebboh: Hi all.
2017-01-10T22:05:19Z sebboh: I used (loop ...) in a sentence! ... :P
2017-01-10T22:06:48Z Xach: watch out for knee-jerk anti-loopism
2017-01-10T22:07:21Z sebboh: But it's not quite right...   (loop for x in '("foo" "bar") collect `(tr (td ,x))) ==> ((TR (TD "foo")) (TR (TD "bar"))), which is close to what I want.  But I don't want that outer-most list, the one with two elements...
2017-01-10T22:09:04Z Xach: Do you want multiple values instead?
2017-01-10T22:09:04Z sebboh: because, there's a DSL that takes a bunch of (tr (td ...))  (tr (td ...))  (tr (td ...)) in series... not in a list.  Should I just let that loop return a list and then pop them out?  Or... something else?  I am a newbie.  ...Still, somehow. :P
2017-01-10T22:09:05Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T22:09:15Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-10T22:09:21Z Xach: sebboh: ,@ is how that is solved in macro syntax.
2017-01-10T22:09:35Z Xach: Splicing a list into the structure, rather than putting it in as a list.
2017-01-10T22:09:41Z sebboh: Xach, ok, I'll look into this!
2017-01-10T22:09:55Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T22:10:52Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-10T22:14:10Z malm` joined #lisp
2017-01-10T22:16:50Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-10T22:18:32Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-10T22:20:36Z malm` quit (Quit: Kinda sorta outa 'ere)
2017-01-10T22:21:19Z malm_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T22:23:56Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-10T22:29:45Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-10T22:30:23Z sebboh: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336284
2017-01-10T22:30:45Z sebboh: Xach, I couldn't figure out how to use the at-sign reader macro thing.
2017-01-10T22:31:02Z sebboh: though it does sound like a solution.
2017-01-10T22:36:26Z Xach: sebboh: is html or table a macro?
2017-01-10T22:36:38Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T22:40:21Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-10T22:42:32Z Guest26 quit (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-10T22:45:05Z malm_ quit (Quit: Kinda sorta outa 'ere)
2017-01-10T22:45:53Z malm_ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T22:45:56Z malm_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T22:47:17Z multiplemedal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T22:48:28Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T22:49:07Z sebboh: Xach, just saw your question, but I can't check right now.  Thanks though!
2017-01-10T22:49:24Z Xach: ok
2017-01-10T22:49:45Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-10T22:50:57Z drmeister: Does anyone know why in emacs the returned value from evaluating an expression is printed twice? As in...
2017-01-10T22:51:29Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-10T22:51:56Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Stu5ELm0/
2017-01-10T22:52:11Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-10T22:52:21Z drmeister: This happens sometimes when I use M-x shell
2017-01-10T22:52:51Z drmeister: I've got a second shell open where it doesn't happen - it only prints once.
2017-01-10T22:53:23Z PuercoPop: drmeister: do they have the same color? one may be printed to stdout and the other returned
2017-01-10T22:53:37Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/arEof7VO/
2017-01-10T22:54:33Z Bike: it looks like the first line is the command and the second is the output.
2017-01-10T22:54:36Z drmeister: Here's a screen shot:
2017-01-10T22:54:37Z drmeister: http://i.imgur.com/8912GBe.png
2017-01-10T22:55:04Z drmeister: I've seen this before and I've always ignored it - thinking it was some weird echo effect with emacs shell.
2017-01-10T22:55:15Z drmeister: Here's the bizarre thing and why I'm asking...
2017-01-10T22:55:40Z Bike: wow, it's very verbose, if you do echo !! it prints "echo !!" then "echo [last command]" then "[last command]"
2017-01-10T22:55:59Z rhllor joined #lisp
2017-01-10T22:56:11Z drmeister: http://i.imgur.com/1RLVvV9.png
2017-01-10T22:56:20Z rhllor quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-10T22:56:25Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-10T22:56:43Z drmeister: I'm trying to debug array printing code in clasp and it's printing the result twice - two different ways!
2017-01-10T22:56:45Z Bike: yeah, so the #*11 is just an echo of what you entered, and #(1 1 1) is what clasp is actually printing. is my interpretation.
2017-01-10T22:56:56Z drmeister: Ok, that makes sense.
2017-01-10T22:57:15Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-10T22:57:21Z drmeister: I must be tired - not thinking of that.  I was coming up with all kinds of weird scenarios.
2017-01-10T22:57:25Z Bike: if you put in (+ 2 2) i imagine it would print that and then 4.
2017-01-10T22:57:52Z drmeister: http://i.imgur.com/fjkHA3L.png
2017-01-10T22:57:55Z drmeister: Precisely
2017-01-10T22:58:01Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-10T22:58:05Z drmeister: Ok, no huge mystery.
2017-01-10T22:58:32Z drmeister: So there is the mystery of why #*11 -> #(1 1)
2017-01-10T22:58:46Z Bike: i'm guessing that is clasp's problem.
2017-01-10T22:58:56Z drmeister: It's the pretty printer.  When I (setf *print-pretty*) it prints as expected.
2017-01-10T22:59:13Z Bike: if you (setq comint-process-echoes t) it might stop the echo behavior
2017-01-10T22:59:21Z Bike: setf print-pretty nil, you mean?
2017-01-10T22:59:37Z drmeister: (setf *print-pretty* nil)
2017-01-10T22:59:50Z drmeister: If that's what you mean.  That gives me the expected printing behavior.
2017-01-10T23:00:08Z drmeister: So pretty printing is not dispatching correctly for bitvectors.
2017-01-10T23:00:29Z drmeister: I'm still working on incorporating the new C++ classes into the CL class hierarchy.
2017-01-10T23:00:51Z Bike: i tried looking through clasp's printer before for some other bug but unfortunately, as you already know, C++
2017-01-10T23:02:23Z itruslove joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:02:48Z malm joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:03:32Z drmeister: Found it - it's a bad predicate   (bit-vector-p #*1111) --> nil
2017-01-10T23:03:51Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T23:04:21Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/wLGCkJGE/
2017-01-10T23:04:22Z drmeister: Bleh
2017-01-10T23:04:46Z drmeister: Needs to be...
2017-01-10T23:04:47Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/BVXRMg90/
2017-01-10T23:04:52Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-10T23:06:20Z malm quit (Quit: Bye bye)
2017-01-10T23:06:40Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:09:51Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T23:11:35Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:13:14Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:13:39Z malm joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:16:01Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-10T23:16:05Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:17:57Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-10T23:18:05Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-10T23:20:18Z __main__ joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:20:35Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-10T23:21:10Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T23:21:31Z al-damiri quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T23:21:51Z NhanH quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-10T23:21:52Z rvirding quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-10T23:21:52Z joeygibson quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-10T23:22:46Z gendl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-10T23:22:46Z splittist quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-10T23:23:57Z splittist joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:24:56Z joeygibson joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:25:14Z gendl joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:25:27Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-10T23:25:28Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:25:34Z rvirding joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:25:53Z NhanH joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:29:22Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:30:16Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:30:40Z Denommus joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:31:22Z Denommus quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-10T23:31:43Z Denommus joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:33:48Z emaczen: I'm testing a system whose values depend on a macro. It seems to me like the macro just expands, and that the expansion is never compiled becaus when I run asdf:test-system every test fails. However, if I visit the file and evaluate slime-compile-and-load-file, and then run asdf:test-system all of my tests pass.
2017-01-10T23:34:25Z emaczen: What should I add to my macro, and what causes it (I think) not to compile? These macros are standalone forms in this file.
2017-01-10T23:37:28Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-10T23:41:57Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-10T23:44:25Z Xach wishes he could help
2017-01-10T23:48:42Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-10T23:49:12Z emaczen: My macros just expand into a progn form whose last form is a value of an object
2017-01-10T23:50:39Z Bike: it's kind of difficult to guess what's happening without more information
2017-01-10T23:54:40Z emaczen: Bike: Well asdf:test-system calls asdf:test-system which compiles each file in the system.
2017-01-11T00:02:31Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:03:00Z jdz joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:09:54Z pjb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T00:10:31Z alandipert quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:10:34Z myrkraverk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T00:10:51Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:11:06Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:11:31Z kilimanjaro quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:11:41Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:11:49Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:11:51Z swflint quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:11:51Z ggherdov quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:11:51Z lancetw quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:12:00Z kbtr quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:12:05Z rhllor joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:12:06Z zkat quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T00:12:12Z rhllor quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-11T00:12:28Z billstclair quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T00:12:31Z mrSpec quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:13:11Z joast quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:13:11Z megalography quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:13:25Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-11T00:13:31Z mood quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:13:31Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:13:31Z ramus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:13:36Z lancetw joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:13:42Z kilimanjaro joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:13:52Z pleroma quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:14:11Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:14:31Z vert2 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:14:31Z Tordek quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:14:33Z ramus joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:14:37Z ggherdov joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:14:51Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:15:04Z zkat joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:15:11Z eli quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:15:21Z vert2 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:15:29Z Tordek joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:15:31Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:15:47Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:16:01Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:17:12Z alandipert joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:17:19Z mrSpec joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:17:42Z mrSpec is now known as Guest43537
2017-01-11T00:17:54Z swflint joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:18:05Z mood joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:18:48Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:19:05Z e quit (Ping timeout: 604 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:19:53Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:20:17Z e joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:21:02Z neuro_sys joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:21:24Z neuro_sys is now known as Guest84458
2017-01-11T00:22:05Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:22:37Z billstclair joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:24:59Z heurist joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:25:21Z billstclair quit (Changing host)
2017-01-11T00:25:21Z billstclair joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:25:40Z EdwardCoffin quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-11T00:26:51Z kbtr joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:27:41Z megalography joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:32:43Z glenab joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:34:17Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:34:18Z saltmiser joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:34:52Z glenab quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T00:35:33Z glenab joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:37:15Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:38:53Z glenab quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T00:39:21Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:40:02Z glenab joined #lisp
2017-01-11T00:47:08Z saltmiser quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-11T00:51:35Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T01:05:27Z dddddd quit (Quit: Hasta otra..)
2017-01-11T01:06:31Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-11T01:06:43Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-11T01:07:03Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-11T01:09:05Z burtons quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-11T01:17:40Z LooneyTunes quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T01:21:19Z glenab quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T01:22:53Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T01:23:12Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-11T01:24:14Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-11T01:27:07Z pjb quit (Quit: Be seeing you in the Village!)
2017-01-11T01:30:23Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T01:31:41Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-11T01:35:54Z zacts joined #lisp
2017-01-11T01:38:41Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-11T01:45:20Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-11T01:48:43Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T01:54:35Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T01:55:35Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-11T01:56:17Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-11T01:56:37Z Patzy joined #lisp
2017-01-11T01:57:28Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-11T02:00:25Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-11T02:04:15Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-11T02:08:10Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-11T02:15:15Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-11T02:19:49Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T02:22:39Z malice` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T02:26:55Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-11T02:27:30Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-11T02:28:04Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T02:30:17Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T02:32:54Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-11T02:36:11Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T02:39:56Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-11T02:41:20Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-11T02:41:26Z scottj quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-11T02:43:31Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-11T02:44:24Z Denommus quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-11T02:45:46Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-11T02:47:41Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-11T02:50:08Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-11T02:55:39Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-11T02:56:24Z nowhere_man quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T02:56:38Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-11T02:57:47Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-11T03:03:52Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T03:04:09Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-11T03:04:27Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-11T03:10:32Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T03:11:57Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-11T03:12:43Z himmAllRight quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-11T03:14:01Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-11T03:16:53Z joast joined #lisp
2017-01-11T03:23:08Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-11T03:23:36Z jason_m joined #lisp
2017-01-11T03:24:24Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-11T03:25:57Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-11T03:28:57Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-11T03:32:37Z Devon joined #lisp
2017-01-11T03:33:36Z emaczen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T03:33:51Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-11T03:35:18Z himmAllRight quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-11T03:36:45Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-11T03:45:08Z minion quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-11T03:45:10Z minion joined #lisp
2017-01-11T03:45:44Z Colleen quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2017-01-11T03:45:44Z borodust quit (Quit: Leavin')
2017-01-11T03:45:47Z Colleen_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T03:48:01Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-11T03:48:15Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-11T03:48:37Z Mynock^_^ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T03:49:36Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-11T03:56:35Z Devon quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T03:58:38Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-11T03:58:59Z Harag quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-11T04:00:59Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-11T04:01:31Z Guest26 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T04:05:35Z borodust joined #lisp
2017-01-11T04:07:46Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-11T04:09:48Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-11T04:17:29Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-11T04:17:33Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-11T04:18:01Z skeuomorf quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-11T04:21:39Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-11T04:22:19Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-11T04:23:18Z myrkraverk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T04:24:05Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T04:24:49Z glenab joined #lisp
2017-01-11T04:25:28Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T04:26:11Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-11T04:29:03Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-11T04:32:08Z emaczen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T04:32:30Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-11T04:33:10Z JuanDaugherty: yello beach
2017-01-11T04:34:53Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-11T04:38:01Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-11T04:39:16Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-11T04:44:40Z glenab quit
2017-01-11T04:45:14Z Guest26 quit (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-11T04:46:44Z Guest26 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T04:50:27Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-11T04:58:42Z Mynock^_^ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-11T05:05:25Z Guest26 quit (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-11T05:07:40Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-11T05:07:49Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-11T05:10:06Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-11T05:17:37Z Guest26 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T05:18:15Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-11T05:18:56Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-11T05:19:41Z Bike_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T05:19:42Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-11T05:19:43Z bigos quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T05:21:36Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-11T05:29:36Z saltmiser joined #lisp
2017-01-11T05:30:03Z emaczen quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2017-01-11T05:30:24Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-11T05:30:32Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T05:31:36Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-11T05:33:16Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-11T05:39:46Z saltmiser quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T05:41:19Z saltmiser joined #lisp
2017-01-11T05:43:16Z Guest26 quit (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-11T05:47:50Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-11T05:49:16Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-11T05:49:31Z nrp3c quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-11T05:53:40Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T05:54:41Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-11T05:56:57Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:00:30Z Guest26 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:01:53Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:02:28Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-11T06:04:44Z dmaj joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:05:09Z jibanes2 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:05:35Z jibanes2 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-11T06:10:49Z Guest26 quit (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-11T06:14:04Z saltmiser quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T06:20:31Z saltmiser joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:30:09Z carleos joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:34:14Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-11T06:35:40Z saltmiser quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T06:36:17Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:37:29Z emaczen quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-11T06:42:22Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:42:36Z voidlily quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T06:42:37Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:42:51Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-11T06:45:00Z voidlily joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:46:04Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:47:05Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T06:47:05Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:49:49Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:53:51Z rjid quit (Quit: rjid)
2017-01-11T06:54:03Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:54:03Z rjid quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-11T06:55:16Z ryanbw joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:56:32Z Guest43537 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-11T06:56:32Z Guest43537 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T06:56:35Z Guest43537 is now known as mrSpec
2017-01-11T07:00:09Z himmAllRight quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-11T07:01:52Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-11T07:01:59Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2017-01-11T07:06:18Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-11T07:09:22Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-11T07:15:08Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-11T07:15:32Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T07:16:48Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T07:19:31Z carleos quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T07:20:40Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T07:20:48Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-11T07:25:38Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-11T07:27:56Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-11T07:29:36Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-11T07:30:35Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-11T07:31:01Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T07:33:35Z Quadrescence quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T07:33:43Z Quadresce` joined #lisp
2017-01-11T07:35:27Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-11T07:51:04Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T07:54:45Z shka_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T07:56:14Z impulse joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:01:21Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:01:21Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-11T08:01:21Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:06:02Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-11T08:07:34Z d4ryus2 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:10:12Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:10:28Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2017-01-11T08:10:57Z d4ryus1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T08:16:23Z heurist` joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:18:12Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-11T08:20:04Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T08:22:37Z heurist` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T08:22:54Z heurist` joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:25:11Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:25:34Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:26:48Z HeyFlash joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:30:34Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:31:13Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:32:12Z yerbaBuena quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-11T08:32:56Z nowhere_man quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-11T08:33:09Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:34:52Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-11T08:36:04Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:37:08Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:49:51Z bmilk joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:57:16Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-11T08:58:08Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-11T08:59:46Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-11T09:00:11Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-11T09:01:48Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T09:01:59Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-11T09:05:12Z Kaisyu7 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T09:06:25Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T09:10:10Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T09:10:59Z rjid quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T09:11:34Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T09:15:51Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-11T09:18:03Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2017-01-11T09:19:41Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-11T09:19:44Z Bike_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-11T09:21:39Z Kaisyu7 is now known as Kaisyu
2017-01-11T09:22:42Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T09:29:05Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T09:34:28Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-11T09:34:58Z roman_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T09:37:29Z arjenve joined #lisp
2017-01-11T09:47:22Z marcoecc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T09:47:35Z marcoecc joined #lisp
2017-01-11T09:49:44Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-11T10:05:50Z hjudt: i have classes storing data with many slots that i want to access from other packages. i could of course add accessors for every slot, but this feels clumsy. so i have written a macro replacing with-slots that simply adds the package name and :: as a prefix of the symbol using intern: http://pastebin.com/uYxSVAb6
2017-01-11T10:06:27Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T10:06:49Z hjudt: it seems to work fine, but are there any side-effects i did not think about? i will probably also add a data-slot-value similar to slot-value since this is really convenient.
2017-01-11T10:08:24Z jdz: hjudt: Why not export the slot names and use plain WITH-SLOTS?
2017-01-11T10:09:11Z Guest26 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T10:10:14Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-11T10:11:23Z hjudt: hm. that means i will need to use the package, because importing all the slot names is not a viable way to go.
2017-01-11T10:11:45Z jdz: hjudt: why is that?
2017-01-11T10:12:16Z hjudt: because there are many slots and the list would be very long.
2017-01-11T10:12:23Z jdz: hjudt: also, you don't have to import them.
2017-01-11T10:12:52Z jdz: And this would allow you to use FIND-SYMBOL, instead of INTERN.
2017-01-11T10:12:56Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-11T10:13:06Z hjudt: i cannot use them with with-slots if i don't import them
2017-01-11T10:13:14Z jdz: Which would trigger a compile time error when you have a typo.
2017-01-11T10:13:22Z hjudt: without specifying pkg-name every time
2017-01-11T10:14:06Z jdz: You could have all the slot names in a separate package, and use only that.
2017-01-11T10:21:28Z impulse joined #lisp
2017-01-11T10:22:36Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-11T10:24:35Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-11T10:26:56Z msmith quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-11T10:27:05Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T10:29:22Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-11T10:29:47Z logicmoo joined #lisp
2017-01-11T10:31:06Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-11T10:39:18Z msmith joined #lisp
2017-01-11T10:41:45Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-11T10:42:35Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-11T10:47:07Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T10:47:49Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2017-01-11T10:47:52Z phoe_: LOOP question: I have a list (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8). How can I bind two vars, let's say X and Y, inside a LOOP body that iterate along that list?
2017-01-11T10:48:12Z phoe_: So X = 1 and Y = 2, then X = 3 and Y = 4, ..., X = 7 and Y = 8, end.
2017-01-11T10:48:14Z flip214_: phoe_: with both having the same value, or successive values, one trailing the other?
2017-01-11T10:48:22Z phoe_: flip214_: by CDDR
2017-01-11T10:48:37Z flip214_: phoe_: (loop for (x y . rest) in list by #'cddr
2017-01-11T10:48:39Z flip214_: )
2017-01-11T10:48:46Z phoe_: Oooh. Thank you!
2017-01-11T10:48:52Z flip214_: or perhaps without . rest
2017-01-11T10:49:24Z phoe_: (loop for (a b) in '(1 2 3 4 5 6) do (print a))
2017-01-11T10:49:34Z phoe_: 1 is not a lift.
2017-01-11T10:49:35Z phoe_: list.
2017-01-11T10:50:03Z phoe_: It attempts to destructure 1.
2017-01-11T10:50:25Z scymtym: for (a b) in -> for (a b) on
2017-01-11T10:51:13Z phoe_: scymtym: thanks! It works.
2017-01-11T10:53:04Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T10:53:15Z o1e9 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T10:54:18Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-11T11:01:12Z Guest26 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T11:02:05Z nowhere_man quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-11T11:02:18Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-11T11:02:47Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-11T11:05:29Z nowhere_man quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T11:10:46Z roman_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-11T11:28:17Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-11T11:29:58Z bmilk quit
2017-01-11T11:30:05Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T11:30:37Z bmilk joined #lisp
2017-01-11T11:37:34Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T11:38:05Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-11T11:38:09Z justinabrahms_ quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2017-01-11T11:40:31Z justinabrahms joined #lisp
2017-01-11T11:40:39Z ferada joined #lisp
2017-01-11T11:43:29Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-11T11:45:55Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-11T11:46:20Z malice: Hi, I want to compile CL code and turn it into an executable file, what should I use?
2017-01-11T11:46:33Z malice: (it's a small project that has few dependancies defined in .asd file)
2017-01-11T11:47:27Z ferada left #lisp
2017-01-11T11:47:33Z jackdaniel: malice: use clon
2017-01-11T11:47:40Z jackdaniel: (arbitrary choice of mine of course ;)
2017-01-11T11:47:55Z phoe_: jackdaniel: clon is ambiguous
2017-01-11T11:48:02Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-11T11:48:02Z jackdaniel: is what?
2017-01-11T11:48:11Z phoe_: http://www.cliki.net/CLON
2017-01-11T11:48:14Z jackdaniel: https://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier/software/lisp/clon.php (documentation is in english)
2017-01-11T11:48:19Z jackdaniel: command line option nuker
2017-01-11T11:48:21Z phoe_: There are three packages by the name of "CLON" [...]
2017-01-11T11:48:48Z jackdaniel: and by their brief description you may easily find, that only one matches the requirements
2017-01-11T11:50:59Z jackdaniel: malice: "3.7 Creating standalone executable" in quarterly has an example of a simple synopsis definition (here https://common-lisp.net/project/ecl/tag/quarterly.html#orgheadline24)
2017-01-11T11:52:27Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-11T11:53:35Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-11T11:53:48Z phoe_: Is there an existing function that tells me whether a given string is a valid email address?
2017-01-11T11:54:36Z flip214_: phoe_: ha! good one.
2017-01-11T11:54:39Z JuanDaugherty: RFC valid would be involved.
2017-01-11T11:54:48Z phoe_: flip214_: :D
2017-01-11T11:54:53Z phoe_: I know, that's why I ask.
2017-01-11T11:54:53Z flip214_: http://emailregex.com/
2017-01-11T11:54:54Z JuanDaugherty: virtually nobody fully supports it
2017-01-11T11:55:06Z flip214_: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/201323/using-a-regular-expression-to-validate-an-email-address
2017-01-11T11:55:10Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-11T11:55:11Z flip214_: https://davidcel.is/posts/stop-validating-email-addresses-with-regex/
2017-01-11T11:55:17Z flip214_: and thousand other hits.
2017-01-11T11:55:23Z JuanDaugherty: although it is a fairly small re rule set
2017-01-11T11:55:36Z flip214_: simple answer: check for a "@.*\.", and send an email to really verify it.
2017-01-11T11:56:47Z phoe_: flip214_: gotcha.
2017-01-11T11:56:53Z JuanDaugherty: take users policy as a parameter to filter what they want to implement is one way
2017-01-11T11:57:22Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-11T11:57:46Z hjudt: jdz: you mean i could export all the slot names into a separate package and use that everywhere. i am already generating the class/slot definitions with a macro, so exporting them wouldn't be much additional work. but i could also use find-symbol instead of intern anyway, couldn't i?
2017-01-11T12:05:15Z hjudt: using only exported symbols is probably much cleaner, though, so i will look into your proposal of using a separate package
2017-01-11T12:08:32Z bmilk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T12:09:40Z bmilk joined #lisp
2017-01-11T12:10:50Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-11T12:10:57Z bmilk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T12:12:04Z bmilk joined #lisp
2017-01-11T12:20:23Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T12:20:26Z bigos quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T12:20:48Z opt9 quit (Quit: Bye bye)
2017-01-11T12:22:18Z opt9 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T12:22:26Z ffsdfsdfdsf joined #lisp
2017-01-11T12:22:34Z bmilk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T12:23:08Z ffsdfsdfdsf is now known as bmilk
2017-01-11T12:24:37Z bmilk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T12:28:51Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-11T12:35:39Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T12:36:20Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T12:37:25Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-11T12:40:31Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-11T12:40:55Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-11T12:41:34Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-11T12:41:34Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-11T12:43:57Z Beetny quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T12:50:20Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-11T12:50:40Z dmaj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T12:51:46Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-11T12:53:01Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-11T12:55:37Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-11T12:57:26Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-11T13:02:01Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-11T13:10:03Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T13:10:21Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-11T13:11:32Z Xach: ahungry: why is sb-cover in ahungry-fleece?
2017-01-11T13:12:11Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T13:13:37Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-11T13:13:49Z khroh joined #lisp
2017-01-11T13:15:04Z z3r0_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-11T13:17:11Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-11T13:17:49Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-11T13:22:34Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T13:22:39Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T13:23:51Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-11T13:24:05Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T13:24:48Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-11T13:25:12Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-11T13:26:46Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2017-01-11T13:29:01Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-11T13:29:23Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-11T13:34:47Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-11T13:37:44Z itruslove quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-11T13:40:19Z malice: I get 'heap exhausted' in sbcl. Is there something wrong with my code, or should I somehow get a bigger heap?
2017-01-11T13:40:56Z JuanDaugherty: prolly the first
2017-01-11T13:41:16Z JuanDaugherty: if the second doesn't work, then it's definitely the first
2017-01-11T13:41:49Z malice: I have a script that should process a (probably large) corpora, and algorithm requires me to store much in the memory
2017-01-11T13:42:00Z ogamita: Well, the second will "work": you'll double the heap size, and it will fail using twice the time!
2017-01-11T13:42:17Z malice: ?
2017-01-11T13:42:33Z ogamita: malice: you should check that your code doesn't keep references to "garbage" (old temporary values).
2017-01-11T13:42:34Z malice: so the lists that I create are created on heap, right?
2017-01-11T13:42:40Z ogamita: yes.
2017-01-11T13:42:44Z malice: hmm
2017-01-11T13:42:52Z ogamita: You can assume everything is on the heap by default in lisp.
2017-01-11T13:42:57Z malice: I'll see what I can do about this
2017-01-11T13:43:20Z ogamita: malice: also, begin with a simple estimation of the size of your dataset.
2017-01-11T13:43:21Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-11T13:45:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-11T13:46:20Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-11T13:49:45Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-11T13:49:45Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-11T13:50:53Z phoe_: malice: when are you getting this?
2017-01-11T13:50:58Z phoe_: during compilation or during runtime?
2017-01-11T13:56:02Z tkd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T13:56:32Z tkd joined #lisp
2017-01-11T13:57:19Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-11T14:02:45Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-11T14:04:07Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T14:07:26Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-11T14:07:38Z Guest84458 is now known as neuro_sys
2017-01-11T14:07:48Z neuro_sys quit (Changing host)
2017-01-11T14:07:49Z neuro_sys joined #lisp
2017-01-11T14:09:03Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-11T14:09:46Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2017-01-11T14:11:41Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-11T14:11:48Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-11T14:14:31Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T14:20:48Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T14:21:27Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-11T14:21:49Z mejja joined #lisp
2017-01-11T14:32:08Z ioden joined #lisp
2017-01-11T14:32:31Z mejja quit (Quit: \ No newline at end of file)
2017-01-11T14:34:46Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T14:38:32Z bigos quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-11T14:41:37Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-11T14:42:27Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-11T14:43:22Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-11T14:44:42Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-11T14:47:46Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-11T14:54:10Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-11T14:55:41Z dyelar joined #lisp
2017-01-11T14:57:30Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-11T14:59:26Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:00:07Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-11T15:01:37Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T15:02:08Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:06:07Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:06:13Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-11T15:07:37Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:09:27Z PuercoPop: Xach: When you say ILISP was 800% more awesome that SLIME do you mean at the time or still?
2017-01-11T15:10:34Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:12:14Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-11T15:13:10Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T15:13:40Z Xach: PuercoPop: I don't recall saying something like that.
2017-01-11T15:15:07Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:15:15Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:15:23Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:15:31Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:16:33Z PuercoPop: Xach: https://twitter.com/xach/status/818498816118849537
2017-01-11T15:16:55Z PuercoPop: ah you meant Slime was more awesome, sorry
2017-01-11T15:17:04Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-11T15:17:05Z loke___ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:18:56Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:23:30Z rjid quit (Quit:  +rjid)
2017-01-11T15:25:49Z sebboh: Xach, re: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336284 .. yes, (html ...) is a macro.  (table ...) is not a macro, it is apparently slurped up by the (html ...) macro...
2017-01-11T15:26:02Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:26:28Z sebboh: I added the defmacro for (html ...) to the paste.
2017-01-11T15:26:34Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:27:10Z sebboh: And the code is here: https://github.com/tkych/donuts/blob/master/src/html-like-labels.lisp
2017-01-11T15:28:31Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:28:56Z sjl: is there a version of mapcar that will work with improper lists hiding in some utility lib somewhere?
2017-01-11T15:30:35Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:34:12Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T15:34:46Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:35:10Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:35:10Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-11T15:35:10Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:35:47Z rjid quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-11T15:37:14Z phoe_: sjl: what should it do when it encounters an improper list?
2017-01-11T15:37:18Z honeymead joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:37:25Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-11T15:37:27Z sjl: apply the function to the tail atom and cons it
2017-01-11T15:37:44Z phoe_: Cons it?
2017-01-11T15:37:49Z sjl: (mapcar% #'1+ '(1 2 . 3)) -> (2 3 . 4)
2017-01-11T15:37:55Z phoe_: Oh, I see.
2017-01-11T15:38:29Z sebboh: I wrote this loop:  (loop for x in '("foo" "bar") collect `(tr (td ,x))) ==> ((TR (TD "foo")) (TR (TD "bar"))), which is close to what I want.  But I don't want that outer-most list, the one with two elements... Because, there's a DSL that takes a bunch of (tr (td ...))  (tr (td ...))  (tr (td ...)) in series... not in a list.  That pastebin I just linked to has more information.  Xach suggested that I use the ,@ reader macro thing.
2017-01-11T15:38:29Z sebboh: I'm not sure how to use it.  ...And I don't know what question I should ask next.
2017-01-11T15:41:33Z Xach: sebboh: I think I understand the trouble now.
2017-01-11T15:41:33Z tfeb joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:41:44Z Xach: sebboh: Are HTML and TABLE macros or syntax in the DSL?
2017-01-11T15:41:54Z tfeb quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-11T15:42:11Z sebboh: HTML is a macro, TABLE is syntax in the DSL.
2017-01-11T15:42:15Z _death: sebboh: instead of COLLECT `(TR (TD ...)) it seems you should use DO (TR (TD ...)) .. also, you may want to use a better html generation library
2017-01-11T15:42:23Z Webinary joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:43:08Z Webinary: What is the most active and modern Lisp implementation?
2017-01-11T15:43:28Z Xach: Webinary: This is a channel for Common Lisp. There are several active implementations.
2017-01-11T15:44:01Z Xach: Webinary: No single one is best at everything. I like SBCL because it's good at the stuff I like to do and runs well on Linux/amd64.
2017-01-11T15:44:20Z sebboh: _death, it's not html, it's a sub-language in graphviz dot language, it's used to express structures akin to a spreadsheet-with-horizontal-or-vertical-cell-merging. :)
2017-01-11T15:44:53Z Webinary: Xach, well, the channel is named Lisp. I am tired of CL because of manual memory mngmnt
2017-01-11T15:45:19Z _death: sebboh: then it's weird that it has an operator named HTML..
2017-01-11T15:45:35Z Xach: Webinary: Ok. Then it is probably better to look in another channel.
2017-01-11T15:46:45Z azzamsa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T15:47:07Z phoe_: sjl: it's ugly
2017-01-11T15:47:13Z phoe_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336343
2017-01-11T15:47:26Z flip214_: Webinary: do you _want_ manual memory management (as in malloc()/free()), or would you like a garbage collector?
2017-01-11T15:47:34Z sjl: yeah that's why I hoped a library already had this, so I didn't have to write the ugly
2017-01-11T15:47:36Z sjl: lol
2017-01-11T15:47:46Z phoe_: if you want to extend to &rest more-lists then replace the funcall with apply
2017-01-11T15:47:50Z phoe_: xD
2017-01-11T15:48:03Z Webinary: flip214_, garbage collector of course
2017-01-11T15:48:14Z flip214_: well, why are you tired of common lisp, then?
2017-01-11T15:48:21Z flip214_: it _has_ a GC.
2017-01-11T15:49:05Z phoe_: Webinary: Common Lisp and manual memory management? how? where?
2017-01-11T15:49:08Z sebboh: _death, in case you're curious: http://graphviz.org/content/node-shapes#html
2017-01-11T15:49:55Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-11T15:49:56Z Webinary: flip214_, becauase CL doesnot have a GC
2017-01-11T15:50:04Z phoe_: Webinary: wat
2017-01-11T15:50:30Z Webinary: phoe_, what?
2017-01-11T15:50:36Z Webinary: phoe, CL doesn't have a GC
2017-01-11T15:50:51Z Xach: All CLs provide a GC.
2017-01-11T15:51:14Z Webinary: Xach, what? How? Why? When? Who?
2017-01-11T15:51:22Z flip214_: Webinary: Webinary http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Garbage-Collection
2017-01-11T15:51:30Z flip214_: as one example.
2017-01-11T15:51:47Z Webinary: flip214, is SBCL the most active CL implementation?
2017-01-11T15:51:52Z Xach: Webinary: If GC is your only objection, you can safely move on to a new one.
2017-01-11T15:51:57Z _death: sebboh: I see.. in any case, you can see from the def-tag macro that it defines a function for the tag.. so you just need to call that function
2017-01-11T15:51:58Z flip214_: Xach: well, aren't there some Lisps that don't, and which will just stop when memory is full?
2017-01-11T15:52:20Z Xach: flip214_: I welcome real counterexamples.
2017-01-11T15:52:40Z flip214_: ISTR some early and/or real cheap lisps. Though not CL, perhaps ;)
2017-01-11T15:53:09Z flip214_: google says https://github.com/carp-lang/Carp
2017-01-11T15:53:14Z flip214_:  A statically typed lisp, without a GC, for high performance applications
2017-01-11T15:53:44Z phoe_: Carp doesn't have a GC because of its design goals. CL ain't Carp.
2017-01-11T15:54:11Z phoe_: Webinary: I'm curious. How did you previously allocate memory in CL if you complain so much about it?
2017-01-11T15:54:40Z _death: it's obvious the guy is troll.. tired of CL because it doesn't have a GC.. tired of water because it's dry
2017-01-11T15:55:10Z flip214_: hmmm, dry ice.
2017-01-11T15:55:12Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T15:55:46Z phoe_ shrug
2017-01-11T15:55:50Z phoe_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-11T15:55:58Z White_Flame: I have never been in any IRC channel with proper discussion, with as many random trolls popping in as #lisp.  What gives?
2017-01-11T15:56:06Z Webinary: I said I am TIRED OF LISP NOT CL
2017-01-11T15:56:31Z _death: maybe go to sleep then
2017-01-11T15:56:33Z flip214_: 16:44 <    Webinary> | Xach, well, the channel is named Lisp. I am tired of CL because of manual memory mngmnt
2017-01-11T15:56:45Z flip214_: seems to be a typo.
2017-01-11T15:56:51Z flip214_: what lisp are you tired of?
2017-01-11T15:57:06Z Xach: ahungry: the suspense is killing me
2017-01-11T15:57:24Z flip214_ finds himself behaving like any old lisper around here...
2017-01-11T15:57:28Z sebboh: It doesn't know.  It probably just has a list of trigger words for lispers.
2017-01-11T15:58:23Z Webinary: flip214_, Racket(?)
2017-01-11T15:58:27Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2017-01-11T15:58:48Z flip214_: https://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/garbagecollection.html
2017-01-11T15:59:06Z flip214_: is the first result of a "racket gc" search
2017-01-11T15:59:15Z flip214_: sorry, will shut up now.
2017-01-11T15:59:18Z flip214_: have a nice day!
2017-01-11T15:59:24Z Webinary: yes, I am a noob
2017-01-11T15:59:44Z White_Flame: also, if you have a beef with racket, try #racket
2017-01-11T16:05:12Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T16:05:14Z sjl_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T16:05:28Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T16:05:51Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-11T16:06:10Z o1e9 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-11T16:06:52Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-11T16:11:22Z bigos quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T16:12:00Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-11T16:12:21Z stardiviner quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-11T16:13:38Z sebboh: _death I think you lost me around "you can see".  Ok, I'm looking at (defmacro def-tag ...).  Actually, I don't know why I should look at it, because I don't see that any other code in this project refers to def-tag... When I grep all the *.lisp files for "def-tag", case insensitive, the only matches are in the bottom four forms in html-like-labels.lisp...  So how does def-tag ever get involved in some (html ...) invocation?  (I'm sure
2017-01-11T16:13:38Z sebboh: it does, I just don't see it yet.)
2017-01-11T16:13:52Z Webinary: Is Lisp the best lang for AI?
2017-01-11T16:14:24Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad)
2017-01-11T16:15:41Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-11T16:17:42Z eschulte: any suggestion for "The name NIL does not designate any package." when building an executable with buildapp?  I think this may be due to my version of sbcl (1.3.12) because this stopped working after an upgrade.
2017-01-11T16:17:42Z _death: sebboh: line 92 def-tags with table/tr/td among others.. in turns this expands to a bunch of def-tag forms (line 90), in turn each def-tag form expands to a defun form (line 85)
2017-01-11T16:17:59Z ogamita: eschulte: (defpackage "NIL" (:use))
2017-01-11T16:18:17Z ogamita: eschulte: nah! just joking.
2017-01-11T16:18:48Z ogamita: eschulte: you have to find where the error occurs, and what variable contains nil that is used to name a package.
2017-01-11T16:19:02Z PuercoPop: Xach: IIRC angry-fleece exposes code coverage data as JSON, that is why sb-cover was added. I take it that goes against the quicklisp rule of building in more than one implementation?
2017-01-11T16:19:29Z eschulte: yeah, I looked in the dumper script generated by buildapp and didn't see anything that looked like it could be nil, will look again
2017-01-11T16:20:07Z sebboh: _death, wait, so there are now defuns named (font ...) (i ...) (tr ...) etc... because (def-tags ...) has been invoked during compile or load or something.
2017-01-11T16:20:09Z sebboh: ?
2017-01-11T16:20:21Z _death: sebboh: yes
2017-01-11T16:21:11Z sebboh: _death, ok, that's good to know.  Thanks. :)
2017-01-11T16:23:19Z sebboh: What do you call a symbol that like, has a value in it.  Like an instance (of an object) in Java.
2017-01-11T16:24:12Z robotoad joined #lisp
2017-01-11T16:24:49Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2017-01-11T16:26:02Z Xach: PuercoPop: well, it causes problems of clashing with the sbcl sb-cover. does ahungry-fleece work only in sbcl? ahungry, care to chime in?
2017-01-11T16:29:44Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T16:31:48Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-11T16:31:50Z rumbler31: anyone played with drakma continuation style requests lately?
2017-01-11T16:31:59Z Webinary quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T16:32:12Z Xach: rumbler31: I have used them for fetching big stuff in the past
2017-01-11T16:32:21Z Xach: and publishing big stuff
2017-01-11T16:32:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-11T16:33:55Z rumbler31: Xach: i'm running into a case where I'm posting stuff to a server and when I'm done I invoke the (funcall continuation nil nil) thing, which is supposed to indicate to drakma that the connection should be closed "i think"  but it seems like after I do this, a tcp input timeout is thrown, as if the connection is left open
2017-01-11T16:34:25Z Xach: rumbler31: hmm
2017-01-11T16:34:32Z Xach: rumbler31: let me see how I used it
2017-01-11T16:39:04Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-11T16:40:40Z Xach: rumbler31: hmm, I didn't use nil, I used an empty octet sequence when posting
2017-01-11T16:40:53Z Xach: rumbler31: I do not know if that is important, though.
2017-01-11T16:41:01Z rumbler31: so the last thing you do is post an empty octet string, then get out of your loop?
2017-01-11T16:43:04Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T16:43:55Z sjl_ is now known as sjl
2017-01-11T16:44:46Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-11T16:48:08Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-11T16:49:23Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-11T16:51:29Z Xach: rumbler31: yes
2017-01-11T16:52:48Z Xach: I actually send a short octet vector. It could be as short as 0, or not.
2017-01-11T16:53:00Z Xach: It's basically the remainder after reading full buffers from a file.
2017-01-11T16:53:04Z rumbler31: ok
2017-01-11T16:53:27Z Xach: i use TRUNCATE to find out how many full buffers are there and use the second value as the remainder
2017-01-11T16:55:33Z ogamita quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T16:56:52Z ogamita joined #lisp
2017-01-11T16:58:19Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T17:01:35Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T17:03:20Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-11T17:03:28Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-11T17:04:26Z HeyFlash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T17:04:39Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-11T17:05:40Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T17:10:28Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-11T17:12:53Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-11T17:15:16Z logicmoo is now known as dmiles
2017-01-11T17:20:35Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T17:21:02Z test1600_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-11T17:21:45Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-11T17:22:07Z sebboh: What do you call a thing that looks like this when printed? #<IN-DONUTS::TAG {10050D9293}>
2017-01-11T17:22:41Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-11T17:23:49Z Bike: an in-donuts::tag
2017-01-11T17:24:17Z sebboh: ok, in-donuts::tag and in-donuts::foo are both instances of ____ ?
2017-01-11T17:24:23Z Bike: who knows?
2017-01-11T17:24:36Z Bike: most likely a standard object, but it's impossible to say. that output is from  print-unreadable-object  if that's what you're asking about
2017-01-11T17:24:52Z White_Flame: #< is the reader macro that means "This can't be read"
2017-01-11T17:25:35Z sebboh: I'm asking about terminology.  Ok, objects?  Ok, print-unreadable-object produces that output.  I'd like to modify the definition of this object so that it prints differently.  Where might I start?
2017-01-11T17:25:48Z White_Flame: clhs print-object
2017-01-11T17:25:48Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_pr_obj.htm
2017-01-11T17:25:49Z Bike: define a method on print-object
2017-01-11T17:26:28Z Bike: the problem is that "thing that looks like this when printed" is not something that has terminology because it's not a distinct type of things
2017-01-11T17:26:57Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-11T17:27:17Z sebboh: In java, I would implement a toString() method.  Ok, define a method on print-object..  uh that's something like (defmethod print-object (my-object-type) ...)  (Of course I'm probably getting the syntax wrong here..)
2017-01-11T17:27:29Z Bike: if you'd look at the clhs page, you'll see the parameters
2017-01-11T17:27:38Z sebboh: ok
2017-01-11T17:28:17Z Bike: in lisp you have it write to a stream instead of a string. then if you want a string you can just use write-to-string or suchlike.
2017-01-11T17:29:00Z White_Flame: sebboh: in Java, methods are attached to object or interfaces.  In CL, methods are standalone, and dispatch on the type of their parameters
2017-01-11T17:29:19Z White_Flame: this neatly solves the problem of "ball collides with wall, does .collide go on Ball or on Wall?"
2017-01-11T17:30:54Z sebboh: White_Flame: yes, I have some modest knowledge of that... It's as if you register various types against a generic method.  The appropriate one is selected at call time...  I think. :)
2017-01-11T17:31:04Z White_Flame: yep
2017-01-11T17:33:29Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-11T17:34:57Z loke___ is now known as loke
2017-01-11T17:37:11Z sebboh: Alright! My (defmethod print-object ((obj tag) stream) ...) contains this string "~A; ~A; ~A; ~A" and is good enough for me to tell one tag from another when I print them. :)
2017-01-11T17:37:12Z loke: sebboh: Correct, but I'd like to add that the types are ‘registered’ against the arguments. That way you can dispatch on multiple types at the same time, i.e. you can have a function FOO that accepts two arguments, and you can have four methods on it accepting (int string) (string string) (string int) (int int), etc...
2017-01-11T17:37:59Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-11T17:38:06Z sebboh: In the process I learned that I could probably have just called (name-of my-tag) or something like that.  Maybe (body-of ...).
2017-01-11T17:38:58Z sebboh: loke, would you say that foo has four distinct "method signatures" in that case?
2017-01-11T17:39:11Z White_Flame: it's a good idea to wrap your output in print-unreadable-object, instead of just naked string stuff, if you haven't already
2017-01-11T17:39:15Z White_Flame: clhs print-unreadable-object
2017-01-11T17:39:15Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_pr_unr.htm
2017-01-11T17:39:31Z loke: sebboh: You could say so, I guess. It has four different methods. Every method must have a different signature.
2017-01-11T17:39:42Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T17:39:59Z White_Flame: The example on that page shows printing one object's field inside the normal #<type ... id>output
2017-01-11T17:40:22Z Xach: And don't forget call-next-method
2017-01-11T17:40:35Z sebboh: White_Flame: I happen to have it wrapped in print-unreadable-object, because the existing defmethod I used as a template had that. Cargo Cult ftw!
2017-01-11T17:41:45Z sebboh: Xach, I haven't heard of that one before.  Would it be used just as the last form in my defmethod?  Should I give it arguments?
2017-01-11T17:43:00Z sebboh: White_Flame, oh, does print-unreadable-object only prepend #< and append >, nothing else?
2017-01-11T17:43:04Z White_Flame: it's can be generally thought of as calling something like .super(), if only regular methods are used
2017-01-11T17:43:08Z White_Flame: -'s
2017-01-11T17:43:21Z White_Flame: sebboh: it also takes care of printing the object type & internal id/pointer
2017-01-11T17:43:41Z White_Flame: the latter can be especially useful if you have unique instances with the same printed fields
2017-01-11T17:44:05Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T17:44:20Z sebboh: ... but it didn't print the internal number just now.  I used (with-slots ...)
2017-01-11T17:44:28Z White_Flame: I don't believe there's any other standard way of getting at an internal id/pointer of an object
2017-01-11T17:44:36Z Bike: you have to do :identity t
2017-01-11T17:44:45Z White_Flame: did you pass :identity t to print-unreadable-object?
2017-01-11T17:45:37Z sebboh: I think I can make these guys print readably, though I don't know what ramifications that may have with regard to unique instances...  Is it true that no readably-printed object is a unique instance anymore?
2017-01-11T17:46:07Z Bike: i'm not sure what you mean by "unique instance", but that doesn't sound true.
2017-01-11T17:46:19Z Bike: it just means that you can make a similar but not identical object by reading the print output.
2017-01-11T17:46:26Z sebboh: ok
2017-01-11T17:47:04Z ogamita quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T17:47:06Z Bike: you don't need to bother making it readable unless you need to do that, anyway.
2017-01-11T17:47:27Z White_Flame: generally the only way to read shared instances is by using #= reader macros
2017-01-11T17:48:02Z White_Flame: unless your output is a call to some sort of factory function which returns reused instancse
2017-01-11T17:48:15Z White_Flame: (which will share instances at runtime, not read time)
2017-01-11T17:48:15Z jerme joined #lisp
2017-01-11T17:48:32Z sebboh: White_Flame: ah, ok.  A whole topic for another day.
2017-01-11T17:49:10Z sebboh: Whelp, I learned to not use semicolons in my print-object output.
2017-01-11T17:49:26Z Xach: sebboh: Why?
2017-01-11T17:49:30Z White_Flame: heh
2017-01-11T17:49:57Z White_Flame: whitespace is the acceptable delimiter in lisp land
2017-01-11T17:50:31Z sebboh: Xach, screws up syntax highlighting in slime buffer
2017-01-11T17:50:53Z Xach: sebboh: it might help to put it in double-quotes.
2017-01-11T17:50:59Z warweasle joined #lisp
2017-01-11T17:51:02Z sebboh: The ; comment matcher doesn't ignore ; inside #< ... >
2017-01-11T17:51:07Z warweasle: Hi.
2017-01-11T17:51:08Z sebboh: Xach, ok.
2017-01-11T17:51:31Z White_Flame: or use ~s instead of ~a, to get double-quotes around string parameters
2017-01-11T17:51:58Z sebboh: yeah I can just use "~A ~A ~A ~A" ... or ~s per White_Flame's suggestion.
2017-01-11T17:58:33Z robotoad left #lisp
2017-01-11T17:59:21Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-11T17:59:49Z fddraid0 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:00:03Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-11T18:00:48Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-11T18:04:03Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:04:47Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-11T18:06:51Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T18:06:59Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:07:26Z warweasle quit (Quit: working...)
2017-01-11T18:07:31Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:08:06Z honeymead quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T18:10:00Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:12:53Z alexherbo2 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:14:09Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:16:56Z MrLawrence quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-11T18:24:04Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:24:59Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:30:40Z jerme left #lisp
2017-01-11T18:33:32Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:35:06Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:37:01Z Xach wonders if things would be pretty awful using U+02B9 MODIFIER LETTER PRIME as variable suffixes
2017-01-11T18:37:21Z loke: Xach: Why? :-)
2017-01-11T18:37:42Z Xach: loke: why use it, or why would it be awful?
2017-01-11T18:37:50Z loke: WHy would it be awful?
2017-01-11T18:37:58Z Xach: loke: confusion with ascii single-quote
2017-01-11T18:38:15Z loke: If anyone has problems with it, they're using a bad font. Hence, it's their own fault :-)
2017-01-11T18:38:27Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-11T18:39:09Z fddraid0 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-11T18:40:00Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:42:21Z impaktor quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T18:42:44Z impaktor joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:43:20Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-11T18:45:13Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:49:07Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:49:29Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:51:38Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:53:25Z loke quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-11T18:53:30Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:56:38Z Younder: Math font's are rare and many systems don't have them installed by default.
2017-01-11T18:57:15Z jerme joined #lisp
2017-01-11T18:58:27Z impaktor left #lisp
2017-01-11T18:58:50Z Younder: If you are using a browser the solution might be web-fonts.
2017-01-11T19:00:26Z Younder: something like <link href=//fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Tangerine rel='stylesheet' type='text/css' />
2017-01-11T19:01:08Z papachan quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-11T19:03:20Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-11T19:03:27Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-11T19:05:36Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-11T19:17:08Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T19:17:55Z john_g_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-11T19:19:33Z travv0 left #lisp
2017-01-11T19:22:37Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T19:22:52Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T19:24:31Z PuercoPop: Xach: ah I see what you mean now, the implementation of sb-cover, sb-md5, etc. are included in the contrib directory. Now I'm curious as well
2017-01-11T19:24:54Z Devon joined #lisp
2017-01-11T19:27:04Z defaultxr quit (Quit: brb)
2017-01-11T19:28:09Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-11T19:29:52Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T19:30:28Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T19:30:47Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-11T19:35:16Z defaultxr quit (Quit: brb again)
2017-01-11T19:36:15Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-11T19:38:52Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T19:41:54Z Xach: ahungry can enlighten
2017-01-11T19:41:55Z Xach: someday!
2017-01-11T19:44:29Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T19:45:52Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-11T19:46:43Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T19:47:29Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-11T19:47:29Z jamtho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T19:47:44Z shka_: hi all
2017-01-11T19:47:54Z shka_: i'm looking for distributed memory library
2017-01-11T19:48:05Z shka_: common lisp or sane C api
2017-01-11T19:48:33Z shka_: is there anything worth using?
2017-01-11T19:48:39Z shka_: rolling my own is a huge task
2017-01-11T19:48:51Z rumbler31: what is distributed memory
2017-01-11T19:49:28Z shka_: divide address space on few machines, transparently get data trough network
2017-01-11T19:51:46Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-11T19:53:13Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-11T20:01:18Z rumbler31: there is a library called NML that does this
2017-01-11T20:01:47Z shka_: ok
2017-01-11T20:01:48Z shka_: thanks
2017-01-11T20:01:49Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-11T20:04:32Z shka_: rumbler31: link?
2017-01-11T20:04:36Z shka_: google does not help
2017-01-11T20:09:37Z rumbler31: https://www.nist.gov/el/intelligent-systems-division-73500/networked-control-systems-group/real-time-control-systems
2017-01-11T20:09:40Z rumbler31: eat your heart out
2017-01-11T20:10:17Z shka_: i don't know about the second sentence
2017-01-11T20:10:21Z shka_: but thanks for the link
2017-01-11T20:11:46Z shka_: rumbler31: this is closed source, right?
2017-01-11T20:11:48Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-11T20:16:16Z rumbler31: i don't think so
2017-01-11T20:16:44Z rumbler31: the first link in that page is a link to dl the source
2017-01-11T20:17:08Z Bourne left #lisp
2017-01-11T20:17:32Z rumbler31: eat your heart out is an expression that means, go nuts, good luck
2017-01-11T20:18:17Z shka_: ooh, ok
2017-01-11T20:18:40Z shka_: anyway, i would never expect to see anything like this is "real time control system"
2017-01-11T20:18:52Z shka_: i mean, what it has to do with real time?
2017-01-11T20:20:04Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-11T20:20:42Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-11T20:24:17Z rumbler31: the library abstracts over memory buffers located in a shared memory space (like a backplane) or two hosts over a network connection, for example
2017-01-11T20:25:28Z rumbler31: so programs written that consume the library and an identical set of buffer specs will be compatible in terms of what data they are seeing and where they expect it
2017-01-11T20:28:57Z shka_: hm
2017-01-11T20:29:03Z shka_: this sounds useful!
2017-01-11T20:29:07Z shka_: rumbler31: thanks!
2017-01-11T20:29:44Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-11T20:30:12Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-11T20:32:11Z aeth: What's more idiomatic Lisp? (coerce some-number 'single-float) or (float some-number 1f0) ?
2017-01-11T20:32:43Z shka_: i would use first approach
2017-01-11T20:32:53Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-11T20:33:08Z shka_: but let me check something
2017-01-11T20:34:06Z aeth: The 1f0 is required because other floats aren't converted to single-float without it, and also it would only convert to single-float with it (you'd have to specify something like 1d0 if you want doubles no matter what)
2017-01-11T20:34:12Z aeth: In case anyone was wondering
2017-01-11T20:34:18Z shka_: ok, i think that first approach works just fine
2017-01-11T20:34:30Z shka_: and i prefer coerce
2017-01-11T20:34:40Z khroh quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T20:34:47Z shka_: at the very least it is a little more generic
2017-01-11T20:34:49Z Bike: they should be the same, shouldn't they? i don't think it's common enough to be important.
2017-01-11T20:34:51Z White_Flame: btw, they compile down to the same asm instructions in sbcl with optimizations amped up
2017-01-11T20:35:19Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-11T20:35:20Z aeth: Bike: It's common when using upgraded arrays because they don't auto-convert, they error when given e.g. 1/2 instead of 0.5 for a single-float array
2017-01-11T20:36:02Z impulse joined #lisp
2017-01-11T20:36:31Z aeth: Also e.g. pi is double float in SBCL and in most Lisps (in CLISP it's long-float, which is distinct from double-float!) so that's probably the most common place where I personally coerce
2017-01-11T20:36:40Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T20:37:01Z yerbaBuena quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T20:37:06Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-11T20:37:21Z aeth: Even when using double-float pi I should probably coerce just to be safe because of Lisps that have a long-float (I didn't realize CLISP had one, I thought it was a mostly future-proofing issue until I checked)
2017-01-11T20:38:04Z john_g_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T20:38:05Z aeth: pi is required to be long-float, actually, so it can only safely be used with doubles on implementations that don't have a separate long-float. http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/v_pi.htm
2017-01-11T20:38:57Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-11T20:39:50Z aeth: I think it might be unspecified as to what happens with (* arbitrary-single-float long-float-pi) because in some Lisps it'll return single-float (clisp) and in some it'll return a float with the precision of pi (clisp appears to make the result single-float and sbcl appears to make the result double-float)
2017-01-11T20:40:31Z aeth: It looks like ECL is another implementation with long-float, and ECL (* pi 1f0) produces a long-float!
2017-01-11T20:41:39Z aeth: tl;dr: pi needs to be coerced to be used with doubles and singles if you want to be sure your result remains a double or single
2017-01-11T20:42:03Z Bike: actually it should use the better precision. as per uh...
2017-01-11T20:42:05Z Bike: clhs 12.1.4.4
2017-01-11T20:42:06Z specbot: Rule of Float Precision Contagion: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/12_add.htm
2017-01-11T20:42:39Z aeth: Bike: then Clisp fails the spec because (type-of (* 1f0 pi)) => SINGLE-FLOAT
2017-01-11T20:42:52Z Bike: tragic.
2017-01-11T20:42:55Z aeth: Bike: Every other implementation I have on hand makes it the higher-precision (long for ecl, double for ccl and sbcl)
2017-01-11T20:43:31Z aeth: I do need to get ABCL working so I can test with that, too.
2017-01-11T20:43:34Z Bike: ah, it's in the manual.
2017-01-11T20:43:46Z Bike: it is conformant if custom:*floating-point-contagion-ansi* is true.
2017-01-11T20:43:47Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T20:44:57Z aeth: Anyway, ime it's the source of a lot of errors if you don't coerce your pis... Most of the rest of the time you can avoid mistakes just by being explicit with "1f0" "2.0f0", "3.0d0" etc.
2017-01-11T20:45:11Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T20:45:45Z aeth: I think I understand why clisp would deviate from the standard there, although if no other Lisp deviates it's basically useless because either you write code that fails everywhere else or you coerce it anyway.
2017-01-11T20:46:26Z Bike: it says it's because it tries to use the actual accuracies of the numbers rather than the precisions.
2017-01-11T20:47:02Z aeth: +single-pi+ and +double-pi+ are probably one way to minimize the use of the verbose coercision in otherwise non-verbose math (usually trig, for radians
2017-01-11T20:47:05Z aeth: )
2017-01-11T20:47:38Z Bike: to convert to radians from degrees, you mean?
2017-01-11T20:47:40Z axion: aeth: type-of is implementation-dependent
2017-01-11T20:48:06Z aeth: Bike: yes, most of the time to convert to radians for use in trig... some of the time to hard-code certain radian angles
2017-01-11T20:48:15Z Bike: axion: it's actually pretty closely specified for floats.
2017-01-11T20:50:02Z axion: I have not tested floats. I do know the standard encourages implementations to have portable returns, but strings for example, produce 4 different results across 6 implementations.
2017-01-11T20:50:09Z axion: subtypep is the same
2017-01-11T20:50:25Z Bike: "For each of the types short-float, single-float, double-float, or long-float of which the object is an element, the typespec is a recognizable subtype of that type. "
2017-01-11T20:50:32Z Devon quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T20:50:35Z Bike: so type-of being vague is irrelevant to this.
2017-01-11T20:51:16Z aeth: axion: (typep (* pi 1f0) 'long-float) => NIL
2017-01-11T20:51:37Z aeth: axion: it's T on afaik every other CL, either because the CL actually has a long-float or equates long-float with double-float
2017-01-11T20:51:51Z Bike: in the first place, type-of does at least have to return a type the object belongs to.
2017-01-11T20:54:17Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-11T20:54:56Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T20:55:55Z jmarciano: macro I cannot use in mapcar, is there other way how to apply macro on a list?
2017-01-11T20:56:28Z White_Flame: which macro?
2017-01-11T20:56:50Z jmarciano: (DEFMACRO SHELL-FUNCTION (NAME)
2017-01-11T20:56:50Z jmarciano:  "Creates a new shell function with optional arguments to be run as (shellcommand \"ls\" \"-l\")"
2017-01-11T20:56:50Z jmarciano:  `(DEFUN ,(INTERN (STRING-UPCASE NAME)) (&OPTIONAL ARGS)
2017-01-11T20:56:50Z jmarciano:    (SHELL (FORMAT NIL "~a ~a" ,NAME (IF ARGS ARGS "")))))
2017-01-11T20:57:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-11T20:57:14Z jmarciano: I would like now to run /bin into that macro
2017-01-11T20:57:43Z White_Flame: there's no reason for that to be a macro
2017-01-11T20:57:50Z Bike: (lambda (name) (shell-function name))
2017-01-11T20:57:57Z White_Flame: oh wait, yeah, defun needs it
2017-01-11T20:57:59Z Bike: or (lambda (name) (shell (format nil bla bla bla)))
2017-01-11T20:58:13Z Bike: whichever you're doing.
2017-01-11T20:58:14Z jmarciano: aha let me try
2017-01-11T20:58:21Z White_Flame: but (lambda (name) (shell-function name)) will always try to (DEFUN NAME ...), not defun the value of NAME
2017-01-11T20:58:40Z Bike: oh. yeah.
2017-01-11T20:58:56Z jmarciano: I get just NAME NAME NAME...
2017-01-11T20:59:00Z Bike: well, if it's a macro you'd usually define another one.
2017-01-11T20:59:03Z White_Flame: since macros happen at compile-time, you need a compile-time expansion into multiple uses of those macros
2017-01-11T20:59:04Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T20:59:18Z Bike: (defmacro shell-functions (&rest names) `(progn ,@(mapcar (lambda (name) `(shell-function ,name)))))
2017-01-11T20:59:22Z Bike: (shell-functions foo bar baz)
2017-01-11T20:59:37Z White_Flame: ...and that saved me the typing
2017-01-11T20:59:46Z Bike: that's what i'm here for
2017-01-11T21:00:49Z yottabyte joined #lisp
2017-01-11T21:01:16Z jmarciano: the last one, it works on your side?
2017-01-11T21:01:24Z Bike: which last one?
2017-01-11T21:01:31Z jmarciano: the macro
2017-01-11T21:01:45Z Bike: i didn't test it or anything, i don't have a "shell" function.
2017-01-11T21:01:52Z Bike: but it's pretty straightforward.
2017-01-11T21:02:25Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T21:02:45Z jmarciano: I just guess names is missing
2017-01-11T21:02:56Z Bike: I don't know what you mean.
2017-01-11T21:03:02Z Bike: oh. yes. forgot to map over it.
2017-01-11T21:03:58Z phoe:  
2017-01-11T21:04:57Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2017-01-11T21:05:31Z jmarciano: well thanks. And how do I make it over list? It is nice like (shell-functions "ls" "expr") and how I put list there like (directory #p"/bin/*")
2017-01-11T21:05:53Z Bike: i can't parse what you just said.
2017-01-11T21:06:02Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-11T21:06:21Z jmarciano: the string arguments are well working. Not if I give list to the shellfunctions
2017-01-11T21:07:09Z Bike: well, you can see that the macro takes a string, since it passes it to string-upcase.
2017-01-11T21:07:19Z Bike: so if you want it to take a list instead you should figure that out.
2017-01-11T21:07:34Z White_Flame: that's part of shell-function, not part of shell-functions
2017-01-11T21:07:41Z jmarciano: oh yes
2017-01-11T21:08:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-11T21:09:45Z _death: since your interface separates name and arguments, it's unlikely that you want to use SHELL, which seems to take just a string, but rather a function that takes them separately
2017-01-11T21:10:29Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-11T21:11:10Z jmarciano: yes there are other metods
2017-01-11T21:12:04Z yottabyte: what about static typing? do you guys like it? I have friends who say statically typed languages are easier to debug and the tooling is better
2017-01-11T21:12:37Z jmarciano: never ending story
2017-01-11T21:13:10Z Bike: it's ok in something like haskell. in C and derivatives it's bullshit. i guess.
2017-01-11T21:13:24Z JuanDaugherty: yottabyte, that question could be considered trolling here
2017-01-11T21:14:36Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-11T21:15:17Z yottabyte: no, serious question
2017-01-11T21:15:31Z yottabyte: it's a conversation I was having with a friend who doesn't lisp
2017-01-11T21:15:44Z yottabyte: Bike: why is it ok in haskell but not c or java
2017-01-11T21:15:52Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-11T21:16:15Z Bike: haskell has a solid theory behind it. C is thrown together and can't decide on what an integer is for more than two seconds.
2017-01-11T21:16:19Z _death: yottabyte: it's not relevant to this channel
2017-01-11T21:16:34Z phoe: yottabyte: _death: #lispcafe?
2017-01-11T21:17:11Z yottabyte: ok
2017-01-11T21:19:38Z jmarciano: it would be nice to get my REPL in colors
2017-01-11T21:21:46Z john_g_: static typing in C and derivatives is favoured, in general
2017-01-11T21:22:07Z john_g_: hence stuff like typescript for large projects
2017-01-11T21:22:20Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-11T21:26:37Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-11T21:29:17Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-11T21:29:54Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T21:30:47Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-11T21:35:19Z Davidbrcz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-11T21:35:30Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T21:35:39Z vh0st- joined #lisp
2017-01-11T21:38:32Z vhost- quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-11T21:39:05Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T21:41:15Z vhost- joined #lisp
2017-01-11T21:41:33Z saturniid quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T21:42:21Z jmarciano quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-11T21:42:52Z skeuomorf quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T21:43:36Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2017-01-11T21:43:44Z vh0st- quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-11T21:45:43Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-11T21:48:34Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T21:52:43Z deank quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-11T21:56:20Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T22:01:20Z yottabyte quit
2017-01-11T22:07:52Z JoshYoshi joined #lisp
2017-01-11T22:09:12Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T22:18:07Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-11T22:21:57Z scottj joined #lisp
2017-01-11T22:25:38Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-11T22:26:48Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-11T22:29:04Z rach3 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T22:29:34Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T22:33:10Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T22:34:32Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-11T22:35:01Z sebboh: There's some "pplapi" thing on the front page of some news aggregator today.  I don't know what it is good for... But it has a CL API. http://pplapi.com/docs/learn/using_lisp.html
2017-01-11T22:35:19Z ak51 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T22:35:21Z rach3 left #lisp
2017-01-11T22:35:30Z sebboh: Do some folks in here work on that project?
2017-01-11T22:35:52Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-11T22:45:08Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T22:47:28Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-11T22:48:27Z jerme quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2017-01-11T22:51:00Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-11T22:52:09Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-11T22:52:10Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T22:54:09Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-11T22:55:34Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T22:59:22Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-11T23:00:18Z LooneyTunes quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-11T23:04:58Z macdavid313 quit (Quit: macdavid313)
2017-01-11T23:05:02Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-11T23:05:21Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-11T23:10:21Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-11T23:12:39Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-11T23:13:31Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T23:18:17Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-11T23:21:00Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-11T23:25:03Z lambda-smith quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-11T23:28:04Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T23:28:43Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-11T23:33:10Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T23:33:55Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-11T23:34:05Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T23:34:53Z kodnin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T23:38:28Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-11T23:40:15Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-11T23:42:21Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-11T23:45:34Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-11T23:52:33Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-11T23:54:42Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-11T23:58:16Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-12T00:08:05Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-12T00:08:50Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-12T00:08:50Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-12T00:14:17Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T00:14:43Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-12T00:15:14Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-12T00:15:26Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T00:16:01Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-12T00:16:08Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T00:17:59Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-12T00:18:26Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-12T00:21:22Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T00:21:53Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T00:25:06Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T00:26:51Z eschatologist: Whatever happened to IntelliCorp KEE?
2017-01-12T00:29:16Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-12T00:30:56Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-12T00:32:50Z pjb: eschatologist: the company still exists https://www.intellicorp.com
2017-01-12T00:36:09Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T00:36:45Z eschatologist: And only mentions KEE in its history.
2017-01-12T00:41:47Z pjb: Well, their customers don't seem to be using Lisp Machines, or even Common Lisp much.  It looks like they pivoted to SAGE customers.
2017-01-12T00:41:57Z pjb: Probably more money in that market.
2017-01-12T00:42:21Z pjb: And after a while, one has to pay for the raising and education of one's children…
2017-01-12T00:42:28Z itruslove joined #lisp
2017-01-12T00:45:55Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-12T00:50:25Z yerbaBuena quit (Ping timeout: 249 seconds)
2017-01-12T00:54:51Z klltkr quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-12T00:56:12Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-12T00:57:34Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T00:57:37Z Trystam is now known as Tristam
2017-01-12T00:58:07Z White_Flame: I'm curious about KEE as well.  Presumably it was a production rule engine you could inject any application's objects into?
2017-01-12T00:58:58Z scottj left #lisp
2017-01-12T01:02:41Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:02:43Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:03:24Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:03:24Z klltkr quit (Changing host)
2017-01-12T01:03:24Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:04:08Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T01:04:12Z DeadTrickster__ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:08:05Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T01:09:41Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:11:09Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:14:35Z bigos quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-12T01:15:08Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:16:35Z ak51 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-12T01:16:36Z pjb: That said, there are similar packages, frame-based systems, etc.   https://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/areas/expert/systems/frulekit/0.html   https://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/areas/kr/systems/frames/parmenid/0.html
2017-01-12T01:16:47Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:17:13Z pjb: Only this is old CL code, it would have to be refreshed, perhaps a little restructued to be able to be integrated with an asdf system, and pushed to quicklisp.
2017-01-12T01:17:50Z pjb: I'd guess the "modern" environment would be LISA: http://lisa.sourceforge.net
2017-01-12T01:26:38Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:28:46Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:30:56Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T01:31:16Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:36:16Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-12T01:37:29Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-12T01:38:01Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-12T01:39:34Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:42:14Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T01:43:53Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:44:09Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-12T01:48:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:49:26Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-12T01:53:43Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-12T01:54:08Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-12T01:54:11Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-12T01:58:05Z skeuomorf quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-12T02:01:14Z impulse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T02:01:18Z impulse- joined #lisp
2017-01-12T02:03:19Z jameser_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T02:05:37Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-12T02:07:15Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-12T02:08:46Z papachan quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-12T02:08:48Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-12T02:08:51Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-12T02:09:50Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T02:17:59Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-12T02:18:33Z klltkr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T02:19:06Z jameser_ quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-12T02:20:01Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T02:20:37Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T02:22:25Z butchster joined #lisp
2017-01-12T02:27:39Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-12T02:30:40Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-12T02:32:04Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-12T02:33:06Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T02:42:00Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-12T02:51:21Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T02:53:52Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-12T02:56:12Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-12T02:58:27Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-12T03:03:37Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-12T03:08:07Z JoshYoshi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-12T03:12:22Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-12T03:13:07Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-12T03:13:37Z aeth: Is there a recursive version of the asdf:system-depends-on function?
2017-01-12T03:13:56Z aeth: i.e. to see all of the actual dependencies of a system rather than just the direct dependencies
2017-01-12T03:15:10Z antonv joined #lisp
2017-01-12T03:15:23Z Devon joined #lisp
2017-01-12T03:16:25Z yerbaBuena quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T03:17:16Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-12T03:18:08Z PuercoPop: aeth: AFAIK asdf:component-depends-on is what builds the dependency graph
2017-01-12T03:20:02Z drmeister: Say I'm writing an EQUALP test for hash-tables.
2017-01-12T03:20:17Z drmeister: Say they are X and Y.
2017-01-12T03:20:25Z drmeister: If the entry count and test match for X and Y
2017-01-12T03:20:29Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-12T03:22:17Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-12T03:22:39Z drmeister: Then I do (block compare (maphash (lambda (k v) (if (not (equalp v (gethash k Y))) (return-from compare nil))) X) T)
2017-01-12T03:22:43Z John[Lisbeth] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T03:23:02Z drmeister: Would that satisfy the equalp test for hash-tables?
2017-01-12T03:23:09Z John[Lisbeth] joined #lisp
2017-01-12T03:23:50Z drmeister: The CLHS says " it compares the keys of the tables using the :test function and then the values of the matching keys using equalp recursively"
2017-01-12T03:24:17Z drmeister: I'm not sure how to compare the keys of the tables unless I build a list, sort them and then compare them element by element.
2017-01-12T03:24:52Z drmeister: Actually, I'm sure I have to build a list of the keys from both hash-tables, sort them and then compare them key by key.
2017-01-12T03:25:12Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-12T03:25:15Z Mynock^_^ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T03:25:29Z Bike: sbcl equalp seems to do almost exactly what you wrote.
2017-01-12T03:25:30Z drmeister: It seems that mapping through all the keys of one hash-table and comparing the value from one table to the value from the next is sufficient.
2017-01-12T03:25:39Z ryanwatk` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T03:25:53Z drmeister: Well, thank you for looking at it.
2017-01-12T03:26:16Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T03:26:17Z Bike: as in, the mahash you wrote.
2017-01-12T03:27:23Z John[Lisbeth] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T03:29:56Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-12T03:30:10Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-12T03:30:40Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T03:35:38Z aeth: PuercoPop: it seems like that function works on something other than ASDF systems
2017-01-12T03:38:55Z PuercoPop: aeth: IIRC the dependency graph is build with a generic-function that specializes on more than ASDF systems. But don't take my word for it, I may be missremembering
2017-01-12T03:41:35Z PuercoPop: it appears that the function was asdf:make-plan instead
2017-01-12T03:44:54Z defaultxr quit (Quit: brb)
2017-01-12T03:46:12Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-12T03:48:44Z stardiviner quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-12T03:50:12Z White_Flame: pjb: yeah, I've nosed around the scope of lisp rule engines (and LISA never built successfully for me), but KEE appeared to have some nice integration on genera; not sure of the scope of that
2017-01-12T03:58:02Z bmilk joined #lisp
2017-01-12T03:58:33Z bmilk quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-12T03:58:57Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-12T04:00:22Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:00:49Z Devon quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T04:01:52Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:05:24Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-12T04:06:53Z drmeister: What would be a quick way to slice up a bit-vector into 8-bit words?
2017-01-12T04:08:21Z drmeister: #*0010100000010001101001000001000001 --> 0x28234841
2017-01-12T04:09:05Z drmeister: I suppose - just read it a bit at a time.
2017-01-12T04:09:53Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:11:26Z bmilk joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:17:39Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:20:04Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-12T04:21:37Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:21:49Z ahungry:   /lastlog ahungry
2017-01-12T04:21:51Z ahungry: oops
2017-01-12T04:22:19Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:22:36Z ahungry: so, Xach: I posted a comment on the quicklisp PR explaining it here https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/issues/1229
2017-01-12T04:23:04Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-12T04:23:54Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:24:00Z ahungry: initially as a workaround for problems between quickloading the system in a pre-saved core using quicklisp, vs loading in a roswell saved core via roswell install, vs the way I'm setting up a saved image/binary in the repo's own makefile, but the more useful reason to keep it like that now is that I went through and repackaged the entire dependency chain
2017-01-12T04:24:26Z ahungry: so now my feature in af.lib.coverage (code coverage as a CLI table and as a JSON output) are not dependent on an external package's internal functions
2017-01-12T04:25:11Z ahungry: instead I have all those sb-contribs repackgaed as af.lib.contrib.sb-whatever, as the maintenance for such a small set of libs is not very difficult, but I can handle safely integrating any changes they make to my own copy, while making sure af.lib.coverage does not break
2017-01-12T04:25:25Z PuercoPop: ahungry: btw how do you like Roswell so far?
2017-01-12T04:26:53Z ahungry: its cool but it needs to default to a core file for the binaries it produces, I set up a roswell/script.ros structure, so when I 'ros install ahungry/ahungry-fleece', I do receive the ~/.roswell/bin/ahungry-fleece binary - however it takes 1.5 seconds to initialize even on an ssd because it isn't making a core to go with it
2017-01-12T04:27:59Z ahungry: if I run with a saved core, it is of course something like 0.001 seconds to initialize, but its definitely a step in the right direction for common lisp outside the existing CL ecosystem (CLI etc)
2017-01-12T04:28:33Z sellout- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T04:28:41Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:29:51Z sellout- quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-12T04:29:56Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:29:57Z PuercoPop: ahungry: so you use it as a buildapp replacement?
2017-01-12T04:30:58Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:32:18Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:34:44Z ahungry: it can be used as one, atm I am providing it as an alternative to the makefile in ahungry-fleece (AF).  In AF, I was at first adding some simple convenience functions (a small util library), and then decided I like the structure I had set up for most my projects (cli based makefile unit tests), so now AF is pretty good (if you like that structure ) at quickly setting up a skeleton project that has: 1. a working defsystem showing how
2017-01-12T04:34:44Z ahungry: do module chaining and have unit tests depend on it, 2. a CLI based unit test / code coverage facility, 3. roswell files
2017-01-12T04:36:21Z bmilk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T04:36:37Z ahungry: So, with AF set up as a binary, I can now (from CLI or REPL): 'ahungry-fleece make-skelly-project /some/path/new-package' and if I git push to github, have others install it as simply as doing 'ros install ahungry/new-package' (and also hop in said directory and immediately 'make && make test' it)
2017-01-12T04:37:36Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:38:54Z PuercoPop: ahungry: if all you want is calling CL from the CLI did you give cl-launch a spin?
2017-01-12T04:39:03Z ahungry: i think the bdd style test macros I added in af.lib.testy are easier to use than five-am or some of the other unit test packages also
2017-01-12T04:40:20Z ahungry: I haven't, I was trying to keep dependencies low, and since the binary building happens in a couple makefile commands, thats where I started (https://github.com/ahungry/ahungry-fleece/blob/master/Makefile.in)
2017-01-12T04:40:26Z ak51 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T04:41:04Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:44:52Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:47:03Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T04:49:24Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-12T04:52:51Z alienbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T04:55:57Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-12T04:57:16Z Mynock^_^ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-12T04:58:47Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-12T05:06:04Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T05:06:24Z tristero quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-12T05:07:29Z dmaj joined #lisp
2017-01-12T05:07:57Z alienbot quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-12T05:08:20Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-12T05:09:17Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-12T05:12:33Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T05:22:21Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-12T05:24:56Z skeuomorf joined #lisp
2017-01-12T05:26:02Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-12T05:30:39Z tokik quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-12T05:30:51Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T05:31:13Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T05:31:15Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-12T05:31:51Z jason_m` joined #lisp
2017-01-12T05:32:42Z tokik joined #lisp
2017-01-12T05:33:41Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-12T05:37:17Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2017-01-12T05:38:45Z tokik quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-12T05:47:26Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-12T05:51:31Z tokik joined #lisp
2017-01-12T05:55:22Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-12T05:58:55Z skeuomorf quit (Quit: skeuomorf)
2017-01-12T05:59:04Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-12T06:08:32Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-12T06:14:44Z akkad: (max (mapc #'(lambda (x) (parse-integer x)) '("1" "2" "3" "4" "5"))) ;; not quite working.
2017-01-12T06:15:06Z shka_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T06:15:40Z Bike: you want mapcar, not mapc.
2017-01-12T06:15:55Z Bike: also, you need to apply max.
2017-01-12T06:16:13Z safe quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-12T06:17:24Z akkad: k
2017-01-12T06:17:43Z akkad: thanks
2017-01-12T06:19:20Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T06:22:02Z nrp3c quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-12T06:25:41Z jmarciano quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-12T06:30:33Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-12T06:34:48Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-12T06:34:49Z shrdlu68 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T06:35:09Z shrdlu68: Good morning!
2017-01-12T06:35:44Z shrdlu68: Been so busy lately I've hardly done any recreational coding.
2017-01-12T06:36:29Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-12T06:37:11Z himmAllRight quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T06:41:11Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-12T06:44:35Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-12T06:50:41Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-12T06:51:33Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T07:02:42Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-12T07:09:05Z megalography quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T07:09:15Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:10:37Z shrdlu68 left #lisp
2017-01-12T07:12:42Z OTS_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:12:57Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-12T07:13:03Z jack_rip_vim joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:14:28Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:14:29Z jack_rip_vim quit (Changing host)
2017-01-12T07:14:29Z jack_rip_vim joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:14:54Z jack_rip_vim left #lisp
2017-01-12T07:16:10Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T07:16:57Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:22:21Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T07:22:41Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:23:09Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-12T07:23:40Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:26:07Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T07:27:59Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-12T07:28:11Z akkad quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T07:28:16Z Intensity quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-12T07:29:01Z vaporatorius__ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T07:29:36Z Intensity joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:29:44Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:30:51Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:31:07Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:32:21Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:32:38Z akkad joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:32:47Z aries_liuxueyang: hey, I found some interesting which i am little confused. like this: (setf + 123)
2017-01-12T07:32:51Z vap1 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:33:05Z aries_liuxueyang: then the value of `+` is `(SETF + 123)`
2017-01-12T07:33:15Z aries_liuxueyang: anyone knows why?
2017-01-12T07:33:54Z White_Flame: the value of + should be 123
2017-01-12T07:33:55Z H4ns: aries_liuxueyang: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/v_pl_plp.htm
2017-01-12T07:33:58Z jackdaniel:  + is a special veriable (like *), it contains last sexpression
2017-01-12T07:34:16Z jackdaniel: what H4ns said :)
2017-01-12T07:34:54Z White_Flame: yep, the REPL overrides the value of + (and others) after each evaluation.  So while it might set it to 123 (I thought you were talking about internals), it'll get right overwritten
2017-01-12T07:35:01Z jackdaniel: on the other hand: "(let () (setf + 3) +)" -> 3
2017-01-12T07:37:49Z aries_liuxueyang: jackdaniel, White_Flame , H4ns, Thank you so much. I am reading that. I'm suprised it's in the documentation. :P
2017-01-12T07:38:53Z jackdaniel: another useful special variable is / which holds last returned values in a list
2017-01-12T07:39:43Z jackdaniel: and - which holds *current* toplevel form
2017-01-12T07:40:07Z aries_liuxueyang: does that works in lisp program or just in REPL?
2017-01-12T07:40:44Z Bike: these are all repl variables.
2017-01-12T07:41:04Z Bike: they're just for working convenience. they don't have much place in programs.
2017-01-12T07:41:35Z aries_liuxueyang: yeah, seen that in documentation. They're affected by lisp repl.
2017-01-12T07:46:15Z Bylisp joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:47:40Z Bylisp: What is the best and most active and most advanced Common Lisp implementation?
2017-01-12T07:48:36Z beach: Bylisp: That depends on the purpose.
2017-01-12T07:49:01Z Bylisp: beach, my purpose is AI and machine learnig and alike
2017-01-12T07:49:36Z beach: Bylisp: Many people here use SBCL.  But ECL is also maintained, and can be better for embedded applications.
2017-01-12T07:49:52Z beach: Bylisp: There are also commercial implementations that are maintained.
2017-01-12T07:50:06Z White_Flame: assuming statistical AI, SBCL is one of the faster ones.  ECL would be good for embedding with C libraries, Clasp (if it's mature) for C++ libraries
2017-01-12T07:50:39Z White_Flame: although all of them tend to be able to link to C libs via FFI
2017-01-12T07:50:53Z jackdaniel: Bylisp: SBCL is the fastest, CCL is fast more conservative regarding memory use, ECL is small
2017-01-12T07:53:39Z jackdaniel: s/fast more/fast and more/
2017-01-12T07:54:33Z Bylisp: i want the best one for ai
2017-01-12T07:55:10Z White_Flame: "ai" isn't a thing
2017-01-12T07:55:18Z White_Flame: it's a very wide collection of specific techniques
2017-01-12T07:55:27Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-12T07:55:38Z White_Flame: so you either want to use existing libraries, or implement algos
2017-01-12T07:55:41Z Bylisp: general intellignence like human
2017-01-12T07:55:47Z White_Flame: have you designed how it will work?
2017-01-12T07:56:18Z Bylisp: i have some algorithms
2017-01-12T07:56:29Z White_Flame: then have at it
2017-01-12T07:56:38Z White_Flame: all the major CL implementations implement the specification
2017-01-12T07:57:06Z White_Flame: so there's not really any semantic difference, just performance tradeoffs & access to platform specifc
2017-01-12T07:57:10Z White_Flame: *specifics
2017-01-12T07:57:20Z White_Flame: depending on what you specifically need
2017-01-12T07:57:39Z Bylisp: conscious machine
2017-01-12T07:57:41Z White_Flame: but as a toolkit for playing around with algorithms, generally it's just pretty basic data you're working with and doesn't need too many tendrils elsewhere
2017-01-12T07:57:42Z beach: Bylisp: Just write your programs using the standard and any conforming implementation.  You can always change the implementation later.
2017-01-12T07:57:47Z Bylisp: that is my dream
2017-01-12T07:58:57Z Bylisp: beach, is Clojure better Lisp thanCL?
2017-01-12T07:59:54Z beach: Bylisp: This channel is about Common Lisp, so you won't get an unbiased answer to such questions.  Also, for general questions, you are better off not addressing any particular participant.
2017-01-12T07:59:57Z flip214_: it's a different lisp.
2017-01-12T08:00:25Z flip214_: AFAIK, CL has much better library support via QL than Clojure... but I could be wrong.
2017-01-12T08:00:29Z White_Flame: clojure is usually slower (by a lot for naive code), has more syntactic burden, and is focused in immutable data structures in applications
2017-01-12T08:00:56Z White_Flame: so for pure algo exploration, I'd personally stick to CL
2017-01-12T08:00:56Z flip214_: ABCL brings the advantage of being capable to use all the java libraries, too, in case that matters to you.
2017-01-12T08:02:24Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-12T08:07:54Z d4ryus3 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T08:09:47Z megalography joined #lisp
2017-01-12T08:10:44Z d4ryus2 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-12T08:11:14Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-12T08:19:09Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-12T08:19:11Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T08:26:29Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-12T08:27:25Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-12T08:29:40Z Bylisp quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-12T08:30:45Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T08:34:53Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T08:48:00Z [Bourne] joined #lisp
2017-01-12T08:49:53Z megalography quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-12T08:50:16Z setheus quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-12T08:51:00Z HeyFlash joined #lisp
2017-01-12T08:51:39Z setheus joined #lisp
2017-01-12T08:52:10Z yeticry joined #lisp
2017-01-12T08:55:32Z yeticry_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-12T09:00:40Z moei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T09:01:11Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-12T09:01:12Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-12T09:06:33Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T09:08:34Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-12T09:10:10Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T09:10:59Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-12T09:15:17Z ogamita joined #lisp
2017-01-12T09:16:20Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-12T09:16:37Z Bike quit (Quit: slurp.)
2017-01-12T09:22:11Z nullx002- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T09:23:46Z hlavaty joined #lisp
2017-01-12T09:29:45Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-12T09:31:03Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T09:36:24Z [Bourne]_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T09:36:25Z [Bourne] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T09:39:26Z [Bourne]_ is now known as [Bourne]
2017-01-12T09:40:07Z tetero joined #lisp
2017-01-12T09:43:06Z malice` joined #lisp
2017-01-12T09:47:53Z tetero: How come (defun test () (format t "Input: ~a" (read))) always runs (read) before any of the other expressions? I've tried writing it a few different ways but I can't figure out how to produce something as simple as "Input: " being prefaced to the (read) operation
2017-01-12T09:49:26Z loke quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T09:49:39Z ogamita: tetero: (+ (* 3 2) 4)  How can you compute the addition without computing the multiplication first?
2017-01-12T09:49:52Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-12T09:50:07Z malice`: Hi all!
2017-01-12T09:50:12Z ogamita: tetero: actually, When you call (test), (read) is the 4th expression that is evaluated.
2017-01-12T09:50:35Z ogamita: tetero: the rule for function calls is to evaluate the arguments from left to right.
2017-01-12T09:51:14Z ogamita: tetero: Sorry, the 5th.
2017-01-12T09:51:32Z tetero: ogamita: Right, but I've also tried (defun test () (format t "Input: ") (setq x (read)) (format t "~a~%" x)) and it still runs (read) first?
2017-01-12T09:51:50Z ogamita: tetero: so calling (test), you have to evaluate this expression (test) first.  Then we have to evaluate (foramt t "Input: ~a" (read)), then we have to evaluate t (its value is t), then evaluate "Input: ~a" (it's value is itself), then finally, we only evaluate (read).
2017-01-12T09:52:05Z ogamita: tetero: your new function is better!
2017-01-12T09:52:11Z ogamita: tetero: but you forgot to flush your buffers.
2017-01-12T09:52:30Z tetero: ogamita: I've tried a few different variations. They all had the same result, so I chose the shortest one for convenience in pasting to irc
2017-01-12T09:52:32Z malice`: tetero: format is a function. A function needs to take evaluated arguments. Therefore, if there is any function call passed as an argument, it will have to be evaluated first before you step into the function
2017-01-12T09:52:36Z ogamita: tetero: (defun test () (format t "Input: ") (finish-output) (clear-input) (setq x (read)) (format t "~a~%" x) (finish-output))
2017-01-12T09:52:51Z ogamita: tetero: also, x is undefined.
2017-01-12T09:53:03Z tetero: Yeah I know it's undefined, but that's a style-warning
2017-01-12T09:53:04Z ogamita: tetero: (defun test () (format t "Input: ") (finish-output) (clear-input) (let ((x (read))) (format t "~a~%" x)) (finish-output))
2017-01-12T09:53:08Z malice`: use let
2017-01-12T09:53:18Z ogamita: it's not more complicated to use let.
2017-01-12T09:53:28Z malice`: ogamita is always one step ahead of me :)
2017-01-12T09:53:41Z tetero: No, but I was trying to make the code as short as possible by excluding irrelevant things
2017-01-12T09:53:48Z tetero: for irc
2017-01-12T09:54:03Z ogamita: sure. But it's always better to make it correct, still.
2017-01-12T09:54:16Z tetero: Yeah I do make it correct when I write the source
2017-01-12T09:54:24Z malice`: tetero: If you give us code Y for problem with code X, we can't help with code X
2017-01-12T09:54:29Z malice`: because all we see is code Y
2017-01-12T09:54:36Z hlavaty left #lisp
2017-01-12T09:54:37Z malice`: if your code is too long, you can use paste service - paste.lisp.org
2017-01-12T09:54:41Z tetero: As I said, the second function that you liked better I had already written before the first
2017-01-12T09:54:48Z ogamita: so, remember, for interactive I/O, you need to flush the buffers!
2017-01-12T09:54:56Z tetero: ogamita: Yeah that's new to me
2017-01-12T09:55:08Z tetero: ogamita: It's what I'm missing. Thanks for that, now I know what to google for
2017-01-12T09:55:16Z ogamita: Only for batch processing you can do I/O without flushing the buffers (they're flushed automatically when they're full, and that's the point of having buffer: that I/O calls don't cost us any actual I/O).
2017-01-12T09:55:35Z tetero: Either way I should know it
2017-01-12T10:00:14Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-12T10:05:29Z beach: tetero: Defining a variable before using it or assigning to it is not "irrelevant".  it is a requirement on conforming programs.
2017-01-12T10:06:30Z tetero: beach: Nor have I implied so. I said that the style-warning was irrelevant to the problem I was having.
2017-01-12T10:06:40Z slavka quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-12T10:07:08Z beach: OK.
2017-01-12T10:07:58Z tetero: beach: That being said, I do get your point. That omitting code that I might deem irrelevant to the problem might lead to some serious headache for people trying to help in the case I was wrong about it being irrelevant. So noted :-)
2017-01-12T10:18:49Z nullx002- joined #lisp
2017-01-12T10:21:32Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-12T10:24:00Z aries_liuxueyang: hey, this code snippet: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336409 shows that it seems I have to think carefully when I use functions like nconc or mapcan. Can anyone explains that? That constant list in a function can be changed.
2017-01-12T10:24:46Z beach: aries_liuxueyang: Modifying constant data gives undefined behavior.
2017-01-12T10:24:50Z ogamita: aries_liuxueyang: this is non-conforming code. The effects are not specified. Highly implementation dependent.
2017-01-12T10:24:53Z aries_liuxueyang: I know that nconc and mapcan can change a list. My question is that the constant in a function can be changed.
2017-01-12T10:25:19Z beach: aries_liuxueyang: Since it is undefined behavior, the implementation can do what it wants.
2017-01-12T10:25:20Z ogamita: aries_liuxueyang: they're "literal", not not exactly "constant".
2017-01-12T10:25:43Z aries_liuxueyang: what's the difference?
2017-01-12T10:25:52Z ogamita: They could be read-only (eg. if you compiled and the compiled stored them in the text segment).
2017-01-12T10:26:11Z aries_liuxueyang: ogamita, oh, they are implementation dependent. Thanks. :P
2017-01-12T10:26:13Z ogamita: Or they could be normal cons cells (eg. if you have an interpreter, or at the REPL).
2017-01-12T10:26:54Z beach: aries_liuxueyang: The code for the function will contain a pointer to the literal list.  That pointer remains the same across invocations, but the list that it points to is being modified.
2017-01-12T10:27:11Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-12T10:28:53Z aries_liuxueyang: beach, Thank you so much. got it.
2017-01-12T10:31:42Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2017-01-12T10:33:14Z aries_liuxueyang: ogamita, Thank you. :P
2017-01-12T10:34:00Z ogamita: You're welcome!
2017-01-12T10:34:04Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-12T10:37:25Z xorox90 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T10:41:17Z scymtym_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T10:44:07Z krasnal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T10:47:04Z sjl: is there a built-in type for (and symbol (not keyword))?
2017-01-12T10:47:17Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-12T10:48:12Z flip214_: you could check the package of the symbol.
2017-01-12T10:48:19Z flip214_: but no, no built-in.
2017-01-12T10:49:10Z ogamita: (deftype non-keyword-symbol () '(and symbol (not keyword)))  (typep '#:foo 'non-keyword-symbol) #| --> t |#
2017-01-12T10:50:04Z sjl: ogamita: yeah I have that exact line in my code now, was hoping there was something built-in so I could delete it :)
2017-01-12T10:54:02Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-12T10:57:33Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T11:16:09Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-12T11:22:14Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-12T11:26:08Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-12T11:26:44Z honeymead joined #lisp
2017-01-12T11:29:44Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-12T11:35:16Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-12T11:35:55Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-12T11:36:50Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-12T11:40:38Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-12T11:41:38Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-12T11:48:14Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-12T11:50:44Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-12T12:04:23Z tetero: I just finished lisp-koans (incl extra credit) which was great fun. Is there anything more like it?
2017-01-12T12:05:51Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-12T12:08:01Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-12T12:08:01Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-12T12:08:01Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-12T12:12:59Z tetero quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-12T12:16:02Z Tetsuo[m] left #lisp
2017-01-12T12:16:03Z M-moredhel left #lisp
2017-01-12T12:16:03Z Jach[m] left #lisp
2017-01-12T12:16:03Z Omarnem0[m] left #lisp
2017-01-12T12:16:04Z lugus35[m] left #lisp
2017-01-12T12:21:52Z dmaj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T12:22:49Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T12:23:02Z ogamita quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-12T12:23:24Z ogamita joined #lisp
2017-01-12T12:27:22Z impulse- quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-12T12:30:26Z impulse joined #lisp
2017-01-12T12:31:45Z impulse quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-12T12:34:33Z impulse joined #lisp
2017-01-12T12:39:52Z knobo: I'd like something that reads html, and spits out cl-who expression.
2017-01-12T12:40:48Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-12T12:42:17Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T12:44:42Z xorox90 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-12T12:45:28Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-12T12:45:44Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-12T12:55:49Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-12T12:56:57Z DeadTrickster__ is now known as DeadTrickster
2017-01-12T12:57:10Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:02:33Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T13:03:03Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:07:28Z glamas joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:08:14Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:08:43Z glamas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T13:09:08Z glamas joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:10:58Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-12T13:11:35Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-12T13:15:31Z hhdave_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:15:37Z ecraven: knobo: there are some html parsers for scheme that produce sxml, would be simple to create cl-who from that
2017-01-12T13:16:05Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T13:17:01Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:17:38Z TCZ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T13:17:38Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:17:39Z glamas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T13:17:39Z hhdave quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T13:17:39Z ioden quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-12T13:17:39Z switchy quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T13:17:39Z hhdave_ is now known as hhdave
2017-01-12T13:18:13Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T13:18:13Z cmatei quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T13:18:15Z switchy joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:18:32Z cmatei joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:19:12Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:22:50Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:24:51Z jameser quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-12T13:25:48Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:26:40Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:29:09Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:29:48Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-12T13:29:48Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:33:31Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:33:49Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-12T13:35:05Z loke`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T13:35:23Z phoe_: Is there any standard-compliant way to access condition slots that is other than its defined accessor?
2017-01-12T13:35:35Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:35:40Z loke` joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:35:58Z phoe_: Since #'SLOT-VALUE on conditions is unspecified.
2017-01-12T13:36:08Z ogamita: Yes.
2017-01-12T13:36:27Z ogamita: Yes, it's unspecified.  No, there's no other way.
2017-01-12T13:36:38Z phoe_: ogamita: gotcha. Thanks.
2017-01-12T13:37:19Z flip214_: phoe_: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/m_defi_5.htm uses an accessor function
2017-01-12T13:37:26Z ogamita: phoe_: as an optimization, on implementations that base conditions on CLOS, you can use slot-value (eg. #+sbcl), but on other implementations, you cannot.
2017-01-12T13:39:03Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-12T13:41:17Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-12T13:44:38Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-12T13:45:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:45:09Z beach: phoe_: You should not access slots even when it is possible.  Slot names serve a single purpose, namely to make sure a single slot is created for the same names in a hierarchy.
2017-01-12T13:46:22Z beach: phoe_: Accessors are as fast as, or faster than, SLOT-VALUE, and they allow you to change the implementation of the protocol later, so that what used to be a slot is instead computed, without changing client code.
2017-01-12T13:46:26Z easye quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-12T13:46:42Z easye joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:47:41Z ogamita: You can use:  (loop for accessor in '(acc1 acc2 acc3) do (format t "~20A : ~A~%" accessor (funcall accessor object)))
2017-01-12T13:48:00Z ogamita: (funcall accessor object) instead of (slot-value object slot-name)
2017-01-12T13:48:56Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-12T13:54:32Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-12T13:54:47Z phoe_: flip214_, ogamita, beach: thanks.
2017-01-12T13:55:04Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:55:27Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-12T13:58:01Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-12T13:59:26Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-12T14:03:36Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T14:11:40Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-12T14:11:59Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-12T14:12:14Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-12T14:12:49Z fraya joined #lisp
2017-01-12T14:14:43Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-12T14:19:35Z ovenpasta joined #lisp
2017-01-12T14:27:52Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-12T14:27:56Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T14:29:20Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-12T14:29:44Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-12T14:32:12Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T14:36:07Z jerme joined #lisp
2017-01-12T14:39:23Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T14:42:59Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-12T14:43:37Z malice`: I need an ordered set that you can insert items to when iterating over it.
2017-01-12T14:43:47Z malice`: Is there some CL library that implements this kind of data structure?
2017-01-12T14:44:06Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-12T14:44:21Z malice`: I know hash-set, but a) it's unordered, b) it's implemented on hash-table, meaning adding anything to it during iteration is UB
2017-01-12T14:45:11Z loke: malice`: How does a red-black tree sound to you?
2017-01-12T14:45:21Z loke: You can use my implementation:
2017-01-12T14:45:24Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-12T14:45:31Z flip214_: malice`: why not use a list, and build a new list while iterating across the old one?
2017-01-12T14:45:45Z loke: https://github.com/lokedhs/containers/blob/master/src/rbtree.lisp
2017-01-12T14:45:48Z ovenpasta quit (Quit: ovenpasta)
2017-01-12T14:46:49Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-12T14:46:58Z beach: malice`: You can also insert into a list while traversing it, provided you do it "manually", i.e., not with DOLIST or LOOP... IN/ON.  You can for instance use (LOOP FOR X = LIST THEN (CDR X)...
2017-01-12T14:47:54Z malice`: beach: yes, but I might have a big set
2017-01-12T14:48:02Z beach: So?
2017-01-12T14:48:09Z fraya left #lisp
2017-01-12T14:48:22Z malice`: so if I wanted to check for the element in the set, I'd have to traverse the whole list
2017-01-12T14:48:25Z malice`: or am I wrong?
2017-01-12T14:48:26Z flip214_: malice`: you can also remember the previous CONS, and insert elements right before the "current" one.
2017-01-12T14:48:31Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T14:49:01Z beach: malice`: I don't know, you haven't told us what kind of operations you want.
2017-01-12T14:50:10Z beach: malice`: If, for instance all the new elements you want to insert are located between the current element and the next, then you have no problem.  But since you haven't specified the details, that's hard to know.
2017-01-12T14:50:34Z malice`: What do you mean by "are located betwqeen the current element and the next"?
2017-01-12T14:50:45Z flip214_: malice`: depending on how many elements you want to insert, and whether they should appear immediately, you could also use a hash-table, and just fetch a list of keys beforehand.
2017-01-12T14:51:18Z malice`: flip214_: yeah, there's small problem with that
2017-01-12T14:51:21Z malice`: let me try to summarize what I need
2017-01-12T14:52:00Z beach: malice`: Suppose you are traversing the list (1 2 ... 46 47 ... 100000) and you are currently looking at (46 47 ... 100000) and you want to insert 46.1 46.2, then you don't need to traverse.
2017-01-12T14:53:10Z malice`: I want an ordered set. I want to be able to iterate over the set, and add items to the set during the iteration(specifically to the very back of the set). The set might be large. I want it to be fast, so I can't use list as a set. The elements might be classess, so hash-table isn't that satisfying.
2017-01-12T14:53:39Z beach: malice`: What does "to the back of a set" mean?
2017-01-12T14:53:40Z malice`: The element should "appear" immediately in the set after adding it(when I add the element during iteration I should be able to iterate over it)
2017-01-12T14:53:58Z malice`: beach: well, it's ordered
2017-01-12T14:54:09Z beach: malice`: Are you saying that the elements that are inserted are always greater than the existing greatest element?
2017-01-12T14:54:11Z malice`: so the back is the place after the last element
2017-01-12T14:54:20Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T14:54:51Z beach: Sets don't have a "back" or a "last element".  Do you mean a queue?
2017-01-12T14:55:08Z malice`: No, when I say "ordered set" I mean that they stay in the order that I put them in
2017-01-12T14:55:10Z beach: If so, just keep a pointer to the last CONS cell of the list.
2017-01-12T14:55:18Z malice`: Yes, it kind of remains an union of queue and set
2017-01-12T14:55:45Z beach: malice`: But they won't stay in order if the "last element" is greater than the one you ad "to the back".
2017-01-12T14:56:00Z beach: So is it the case that the elements you add are always greater than the greatest existing element?
2017-01-12T14:56:52Z beach: malice`: Do you see what I am asking?
2017-01-12T14:57:11Z malice`: yeah
2017-01-12T14:57:20Z malice`: well
2017-01-12T14:57:20Z ogamita quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-12T14:57:23Z malice`: I was reading this http://loup-vaillant.fr/tutorials/earley-parsing/recogniser
2017-01-12T14:57:31Z malice`: and I wanted to implement an earley parser myself
2017-01-12T14:57:47Z malice`: And there are "sets" in the sense that you don't store the same partial parse twice
2017-01-12T14:58:03Z malice`: but at the same time they behave like a dynamic array, in the sense that these are ordered
2017-01-12T14:58:08Z beach: But they are not "ordered" in the sense that the domain is totally ordered.
2017-01-12T14:58:22Z malice`: yes, I don't think of the elements as "greater" or "smaller".
2017-01-12T14:58:32Z malice`: I might have used a wrong nomenclature
2017-01-12T14:58:32Z beach: But that is what "ordered set" means.
2017-01-12T14:58:38Z beach: You are talking about a sequence.
2017-01-12T14:58:40Z malice`: Then I'm very sorry for confusion.
2017-01-12T14:58:43Z beach: In particular, of a queue.
2017-01-12T14:58:52Z beach: So just keep a pointer to the last CONS cell.
2017-01-12T14:59:27Z beach: And keep a parallel hash table to determine whether an element is already in the set.
2017-01-12T14:59:37Z beach: So that you don't have to traverse it.
2017-01-12T15:02:55Z beach: malice`: Before you code any more, I recommend you read the paper "Practical Earley Parsing" by John Aycock and Nigel Horspool.
2017-01-12T15:03:15Z beach: malice`: They have good data structures for Earley parsing.
2017-01-12T15:03:18Z malice`: Thank you, beach . I will be sure to read it
2017-01-12T15:03:19Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-12T15:03:29Z malice`: And I'm sorry for introducing the misunderstanding.
2017-01-12T15:03:41Z beach: Don't worry about it.  It happens.
2017-01-12T15:03:51Z jerme quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2017-01-12T15:04:33Z jerme joined #lisp
2017-01-12T15:05:36Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-12T15:06:30Z nowolfer joined #lisp
2017-01-12T15:09:00Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T15:11:29Z nowolfer quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-12T15:12:22Z nowolfer joined #lisp
2017-01-12T15:12:53Z john_g_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T15:17:16Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-12T15:22:51Z phoe_: I have a list, '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9). What is the shortest way to remove elements 2, 7, 8 from it?
2017-01-12T15:23:17Z phoe_: I want something like (remove-from '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) '(2 7 8) :test #'=).
2017-01-12T15:23:47Z jackdaniel: (remove-if (rcurry #'member '(2 7 8)) *list*)
2017-01-12T15:24:35Z beach: phoe_: Does the list always contain integers?  Is it always ordered?  Are the elements unique? If not, do you want to remove every occurence?
2017-01-12T15:24:40Z beach: occurrence
2017-01-12T15:24:56Z phoe_: beach: yes, always integers. No, not always ordered. Yes, they are unique.
2017-01-12T15:25:14Z beach: clhs set-difference
2017-01-12T15:25:14Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_set_di.htm
2017-01-12T15:25:42Z phoe_: Yes, that's the one! I knew there was something like this in CLHS but I was looking at UNION.
2017-01-12T15:25:44Z phoe_: Thanks, beach.
2017-01-12T15:25:51Z beach: Sure.
2017-01-12T15:26:20Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-12T15:28:46Z john_g_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T15:29:45Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-12T15:32:11Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T15:32:54Z ogamita joined #lisp
2017-01-12T15:33:20Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-12T15:33:20Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-12T15:35:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-12T15:37:32Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T15:37:42Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-12T15:37:42Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-12T15:49:04Z phoe_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-12T15:53:05Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-12T15:57:35Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-12T15:59:35Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T16:00:10Z nowolfer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T16:00:27Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-12T16:01:03Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:01:43Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:02:05Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T16:02:54Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:04:55Z easye: This CI stuff is kind like a big edit/compile/[short debug] loop.  It reintroduces the need for a coffee break.
2017-01-12T16:05:33Z beach: minion: What does CI stand for?
2017-01-12T16:05:33Z minion: Conepate Interparoxysmal
2017-01-12T16:06:52Z test1600_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-12T16:16:13Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:16:39Z jerme quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2017-01-12T16:17:03Z jerme joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:17:48Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-12T16:22:41Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-12T16:23:16Z ikopico joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:23:19Z william joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:23:19Z william is now known as williamyaoh
2017-01-12T16:24:38Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:27:36Z nowolfer joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:29:59Z flip214_: beach: "continuous integration"
2017-01-12T16:30:41Z ogamita: beach: Continuous Integration: it's compiler farms that will checkout revisions from repositories, compile them and if successful, run the tests, all automatically.
2017-01-12T16:31:03Z setheus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T16:31:32Z vap1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T16:31:46Z ogamita: beach: great advantage: each time you commit, you get as feedback compilation or test errors (or sometimes, success!).  Big inconvenient, it usually takes a lot of time to compile and test everything from scratch. Hence the batch nature of CI.
2017-01-12T16:32:31Z setheus joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:33:13Z ogamita: Where we are here, the CI are also remote, with the subversion repostories also some other place, so it takes a lot of network time too. Compilations can take 3 hours (depending on the components packaged), and the complete test set takes the whole night (hence "Nightly Builds").
2017-01-12T16:33:26Z zooey quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-12T16:33:34Z ogamita: So we get a roundtrip of one day, like in the good old times of punched card/printout development. :-)
2017-01-12T16:33:53Z ogamita: Happily, we may also compile and run tests locally, usually it's faster.
2017-01-12T16:33:58Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:34:50Z ogamita: But there's this final advantage: the CI thus produces releases, which can be shipped to the customer when the tests passed.  So potentially we could ship to customers "anytime".
2017-01-12T16:35:10Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T16:37:03Z malice`: the other advantage is that you set an environment to compile in, so (a) you what exactly you need to setup for the code to compile and (b) you make sure that "anyone" could build the code without problem(code does not depend on some of your exotic local settings)
2017-01-12T16:38:19Z ogamita: yes, "reproductible builds".
2017-01-12T16:38:40Z flip214_: Can I have an ITERATE:REPEAT conditionalized?  (IF count (REPEAT count)) gets rejected, "only at toplevel"
2017-01-12T16:39:17Z flip214_: (if message-count (while (plusp (decf message-count))))
2017-01-12T16:39:24Z flip214_: or is there some easier/nicer way?
2017-01-12T16:40:54Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:42:28Z beach: flip214, ogamita: Got it, thanks!
2017-01-12T16:43:26Z ogamita: flip214_: well, I guess you should test count around the iteration: (if count (iterate (repeat count) …))
2017-01-12T16:45:31Z fddraid0 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:47:10Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:48:42Z flip214_: ogamita: this is just one of several clauses to stop the loop (early).
2017-01-12T16:52:07Z ogamita: flip214_: iterate use (repeat …) at compilation time, so you cannot conditionalize it. Either write or generate two alternative iterate forms, or use while.   (iterate (while (if message-count (plusp (decf message-count)) t)) …)
2017-01-12T16:52:46Z ogamita: assumedly, (iterate (while t) (other termination conidtion) …) can optimize out the (while t).
2017-01-12T16:53:01Z circ-user-Yxu9X joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:53:41Z flip214_: ogamita: thanks, have the IF from above.
2017-01-12T16:55:52Z HeyFlash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T16:57:24Z warweasle joined #lisp
2017-01-12T16:58:44Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:00:33Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:01:30Z circ-user-Yxu9X: Having some trouble understanding why reinitialize-instance won't reset my slots in this example http://paste.lisp.org/display/336430 - at the end I would expect the bar slot to be 42, not 100
2017-01-12T17:02:23Z ogamita: circ-user-Yxu9X: reinitialize-instance will call shared-initialize and since you've not implemented one for this class, nothing is done.
2017-01-12T17:03:25Z ogamita: clhs reinitialize-instance
2017-01-12T17:03:26Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_reinit.htm
2017-01-12T17:04:39Z beach: circ-user-Yxu9X: Since you haven't given any slots to re-initialize (which you would typically do with some :INITARG), then no slots are going to be modified.
2017-01-12T17:06:21Z circ-user-Yxu9X: Ah ok
2017-01-12T17:07:49Z thinkpad quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:08:12Z switchy quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:08:35Z tokenrove quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:10:10Z switchy joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:10:18Z ak51 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:10:18Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:10:18Z drdo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:10:20Z tokenrove joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:10:43Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:10:46Z ak51 quit (Signing in (ak51))
2017-01-12T17:10:46Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:10:52Z drdo joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:10:53Z thinkpad joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:10:55Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:14:29Z [Bourne] is now known as Bourne
2017-01-12T17:14:43Z beach: circ-user-Yxu9X: What you could do is to use SLOT-MAKUNBOUND to make the slot unbound, and then call INITIALIZE-INSTANCE (and not REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE).
2017-01-12T17:14:57Z Bourne is now known as [Bourne]
2017-01-12T17:15:58Z beach: circ-user-Yxu9X: Because then, INITIALIZE-INSTANCE will call SHARED-INITIALIZE with T which means "all slots", and SHARED-INITIALIZE will then use the :INITFORM for any slot that is still unbound after all the :INITARGs have been processed (here you don't have any).
2017-01-12T17:15:59Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:17:15Z ogamita: reinitialize-instance calls shared-initialize too. (They all call shared-initialize).
2017-01-12T17:18:20Z beach: Yes, but not with T.
2017-01-12T17:20:39Z [Bourne] quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-12T17:23:16Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-12T17:23:46Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:26:19Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:27:11Z circ-user-Yxu9X quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:28:35Z ogamita quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T17:30:03Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:30:52Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T17:31:02Z nowolfer quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:31:04Z honeymead quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T17:31:57Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:32:55Z nowolfer joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:33:21Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-12T17:34:06Z circ-user-Yxu9X joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:37:48Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:40:31Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:40:51Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:47:08Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:47:41Z circ-user-Yxu9X quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:47:42Z ikopico quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-12T17:48:05Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:51:33Z dcluna quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:52:26Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:54:45Z dcluna joined #lisp
2017-01-12T17:58:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-12T17:58:13Z mejja joined #lisp
2017-01-12T18:02:21Z heurist`_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T18:03:04Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T18:03:50Z heurist` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-12T18:04:36Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-12T18:06:09Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-12T18:18:19Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T18:18:33Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T18:18:36Z BusFactor1: I'm trying to read a csv file exported as UTF-8 from Excel with cl-csv on LispWorks and I'm running to the following error:
2017-01-12T18:18:39Z BusFactor1: External format (:UTF-8 :EOL-STYLE :CR) produces characters of type
2017-01-12T18:18:39Z BusFactor1: LISPWORKS:SIMPLE-CHAR, which is not a subtype of the specified element-type
2017-01-12T18:18:40Z BusFactor1: BASE-CHAR.
2017-01-12T18:19:01Z BusFactor1: Any clue on how to get the library to read the csv file properly?
2017-01-12T18:21:53Z tristero joined #lisp
2017-01-12T18:23:35Z jsjolen joined #lisp
2017-01-12T18:24:06Z jsjolen left #lisp
2017-01-12T18:24:23Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-12T18:25:56Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-12T18:26:33Z kodnin quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-12T18:28:48Z circ-user-Yxu9X joined #lisp
2017-01-12T18:31:36Z mejja quit (Quit: \ No newline at end of file)
2017-01-12T18:34:59Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-12T18:39:15Z fddraid0 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-12T18:42:54Z phoe_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-12T18:46:53Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-12T18:55:07Z circ-user-Yxu9X_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T18:55:50Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-12T18:58:07Z circ-user-Yxu9X quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-12T18:58:40Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-12T18:59:03Z BusFactor1: Got it, just saved as non UTF-8 and set cl-csv:*default-external-format* to :latin-1.
2017-01-12T19:06:38Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-12T19:09:20Z ak51 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-12T19:10:01Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-12T19:14:57Z flip214_ is now known as flip214
2017-01-12T19:16:18Z bocaneri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T19:17:31Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-12T19:18:28Z eschatologist: What's this I've seen around about a "System 130" based on CADR? Is there more detail somewhere?
2017-01-12T19:19:35Z warweasle quit (Quit: bye)
2017-01-12T19:19:53Z nowolfer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T19:21:37Z mnoonan quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-12T19:22:26Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T19:25:51Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-12T19:27:17Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-12T19:29:48Z arbv joined #lisp
2017-01-12T19:34:36Z loke quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-12T19:40:41Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T19:44:10Z yerbaBuena quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-12T19:46:18Z drmeister: In ECL if I set *print-readably* to T    and then (print #(1 2 3)) ->    #A(T (3) (1 2 3))
2017-01-12T19:49:09Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-12T19:50:02Z ak51 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T19:51:03Z Xach: that is not good
2017-01-12T19:51:30Z antoszka: jackdaniel: ^
2017-01-12T19:55:40Z sebboh: Suppose a list '("foo" "bar").  How do I return "foo" "bar"  (that's multiple values)
2017-01-12T19:55:50Z rippa quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-12T19:55:57Z Bike: clhs values-list
2017-01-12T19:55:57Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_vals_l.htm
2017-01-12T19:57:03Z sebboh: Thanks Bike.  Strangely, in SBCL, (values ...) calls (values-list ...) but it must do so with some nuance I missed.
2017-01-12T19:57:18Z sebboh: (values-list '('a 'b)) certainly works.
2017-01-12T19:57:24Z Bike: nuance...?
2017-01-12T20:02:54Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:07:11Z ym quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-12T20:07:57Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:11:02Z wooden_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T20:13:08Z PuercoPop: (apply values  '("foo" "bar"))
2017-01-12T20:14:25Z rippa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-12T20:15:58Z wooden_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:16:47Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-12T20:17:08Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:17:20Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T20:17:38Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:19:10Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:21:02Z PuercoPop: TIL about values-list
2017-01-12T20:21:04Z PuercoPop: !
2017-01-12T20:21:29Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T20:22:02Z Bike: well, on sbcl (defun values (&rest values) (values-list values)) so the apply does the same thing anyway
2017-01-12T20:22:18Z LooneyTunes joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:23:22Z LooneyTunes quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T20:25:07Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T20:25:09Z ym joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:27:01Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:27:29Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T20:27:46Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:27:51Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T20:28:06Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:28:07Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T20:28:26Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:28:41Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T20:28:56Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:29:50Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T20:35:19Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:35:57Z JuanDaugherty left #lisp
2017-01-12T20:38:31Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:41:12Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:41:27Z jasom: the spec even has a note: (values-list list) ==  (apply #'values list)
2017-01-12T20:42:38Z francogrex joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:42:56Z francogrex: Hi I see that SICL is out ("officially")
2017-01-12T20:43:21Z francogrex: how would one install it? does it run on 32bit?
2017-01-12T20:44:35Z PuercoPop: francogrex: it is more a collection of modules, clone it to your quicklisp/local-projects directory. Also, it is has no official release AFAIK
2017-01-12T20:46:16Z jasom: francogrex: https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL/blob/master/RELEASES.md looks pretty not-released to me
2017-01-12T20:46:41Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T20:48:20Z francogrex: ah ok. it's just that the README.md does not say "...meant to become..." anymore but rather: "SICL is a new implementation of Common Lisp"
2017-01-12T20:51:09Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-12T20:52:10Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:52:38Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:53:08Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T20:54:53Z shka_: hey, anybody know when common-qt will get qt5 support?
2017-01-12T20:55:51Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-12T20:56:27Z jasom: PuercoPop: my memory is telling me that the loop implementation in SICL requires the target lisp to have first class global environments; do you know if that's true?
2017-01-12T20:56:33Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T21:02:44Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T21:03:13Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T21:03:13Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-12T21:04:28Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-12T21:04:45Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-12T21:06:11Z PuercoPop: jasom: no, just requires CLOS (let me check just in case)
2017-01-12T21:08:56Z PuercoPop: jasom: ok, the implementation does (transitively) depend on sicl-enviroment but they don't appear to be necessary. Just pulled in due to sicl-additional-conditions
2017-01-12T21:18:12Z Bike: SICL is not an independent implementation yet, but a lot of the parts work.
2017-01-12T21:19:53Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T21:21:47Z taij33n quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-12T21:22:53Z S1ohy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T21:24:12Z taij33n joined #lisp
2017-01-12T21:27:24Z francogrex: alright. good. great work. I hope to see it out as independent soon. thanks
2017-01-12T21:27:53Z circ-user-Yxu9X_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T21:30:33Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T21:34:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T21:37:56Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-12T21:46:12Z francogrex quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-12T21:49:35Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-12T21:51:24Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-12T21:54:19Z Walex quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-12T21:58:20Z kodnin quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-12T21:59:07Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:00:23Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-12T22:00:57Z taij33n quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-12T22:02:12Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-12T22:02:16Z taij33n joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:04:22Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-12T22:04:42Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:06:23Z kodnin: Why does `((lambda (x) x) 123)` return 123 and `(defun return-lambda () (lambda (x) x)) ... ((return-lambda) 123)` result in an error? I can fix it with `(funcall (return-lambda) 123)`, but why is it needed?
2017-01-12T22:07:11Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-12T22:08:55Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:09:32Z PuercoPop: kodnin: because variables and functions have their own namespace
2017-01-12T22:10:15Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:11:02Z _death: because ((lambda ...) ...) is a hack
2017-01-12T22:11:50Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:12:43Z kodnin: PuercoPop How do you mean? I guessed it was related to that, but how exactly. I'm returning a lambda from the return-lambda function.
2017-01-12T22:14:35Z kodnin: PuercoPop In my current understanding that's equivalent to the first form. But from what I see I guess that's not the case.
2017-01-12T22:16:34Z _death: in CL, the car of the function call form is not evaluated.. it is either a name of a function or a lambda expression (the hack)
2017-01-12T22:18:15Z ikopico joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:18:52Z Xach: it is baked into the evaluator rules
2017-01-12T22:20:47Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-12T22:22:22Z kodnin: Ah, I see. It must be my previous Scheme knowledge that is confusing me.
2017-01-12T22:23:04Z PuercoPop: kodnin: I mean namespace in the first meaning of http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_n.htm#namespace. So if one writes (defun foo (foo) ...). the symbol foo can refer to the function foo or the variable foo. Given that, the evaluation rules of CL mean that car of a form not evalauted but looked up in the function space. In Scheme and other lisps because variables and functions share the same
2017-01-12T22:23:04Z PuercoPop:  namespace (and hence you can't write (define list (list) or use list as an argument name!) you can use can an expression in the 'function position' of a form and it works. This difference is known as lisp-1 vs lisp-2.
2017-01-12T22:23:07Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-12T22:23:20Z kodnin: So funcall is the way to go for that?
2017-01-12T22:23:35Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-12T22:23:39Z Xach: How does the quip go?
2017-01-12T22:23:51Z Xach: Something like "You can learn common lisp in two days if you don't know anything, or three days if you already know scheme"
2017-01-12T22:24:03Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:24:09Z PuercoPop: yeah funcall or apply depending if you know the arguments you are going to pass to the function when you are writing the code or not
2017-01-12T22:24:45Z _death: clhs 3.1.2.1.2
2017-01-12T22:24:46Z specbot: Conses as Forms: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_abab.htm
2017-01-12T22:25:03Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:25:16Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-12T22:26:31Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:27:50Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:27:59Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:29:21Z sebboh: If I want to use something like :log4slime from quicklisp in another system, during development, the naive way would be to make the system depend on log4slime.  But what if I don't want to use log4slime at runtime?  How do lispers commonly handle that situation?
2017-01-12T22:30:49Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:31:04Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:31:05Z kodnin: Ok I knew about Lisp-1 and Lisp-2, but I'm still surprised from time to time. Now I know where to look when the evaluator surprises me again. Thanks!
2017-01-12T22:31:38Z PuercoPop: sebboh ASDF has feature expressions for dependencies. You can push :dev or something into your *features* in your development machine to enable log4slime when developing only
2017-01-12T22:32:45Z sebboh: *features* is a global variable?  like *print-readably* ?
2017-01-12T22:32:53Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T22:35:02Z sebboh: forget that last question, it's already defined, this is how all the #+sbcl stuff happens.
2017-01-12T22:36:47Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-12T22:37:14Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:37:18Z kodnin quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-12T22:39:03Z PuercoPop: sebboh: yeah, but in ASDF don't use #+ but instead if-feature (https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/The-defsystem-grammar.html#if_002dfeature-option). That way if you read the system definition and then push to features without loading ASDF will load the dependency
2017-01-12T22:40:57Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-12T22:41:11Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-12T22:42:16Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:44:34Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:50:05Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T22:50:07Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-12T22:50:16Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T22:54:29Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:58:20Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-12T22:58:37Z eschatologist quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.3+deb2 - http://znc.in)
2017-01-12T23:01:36Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-12T23:03:49Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-12T23:03:52Z eschatologist joined #lisp
2017-01-12T23:04:15Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-12T23:04:27Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T23:05:07Z prole quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-12T23:05:17Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-12T23:05:25Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-12T23:06:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-12T23:06:09Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-12T23:06:44Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-12T23:10:18Z heurist`_ is now known as heurist
2017-01-12T23:11:10Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T23:18:58Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-12T23:20:22Z bpf_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T23:21:44Z frainfreeze joined #lisp
2017-01-12T23:21:51Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T23:21:58Z frainfreeze left #lisp
2017-01-12T23:23:25Z jerme quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2017-01-12T23:24:07Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-12T23:24:21Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-12T23:32:15Z ikopico quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-12T23:34:05Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-12T23:34:53Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T23:34:53Z bpf_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-12T23:38:05Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-12T23:39:20Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-12T23:39:47Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-12T23:43:53Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-12T23:44:30Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-12T23:50:08Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-12T23:52:36Z BusFactor1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T00:03:11Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:03:36Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T00:03:47Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:05:13Z jasom: PuercoPop: if-feature is still fairly early though; the main purpose is to have it visible in the defsystem tree, not to delay evaluation
2017-01-13T00:06:05Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-13T00:09:31Z butchster quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T00:11:41Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:18:02Z butchster joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:18:42Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:19:38Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:19:45Z stardiviner quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-13T00:21:50Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:22:05Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T00:23:48Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:24:15Z S1ohy quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-13T00:27:29Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T00:28:02Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T00:28:33Z heurist joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:33:09Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:33:35Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-13T00:34:53Z Mynock^_^ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:35:07Z pierpa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T00:37:48Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T00:38:39Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:38:45Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:39:05Z kodnin quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-13T00:44:07Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:46:23Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-13T00:46:25Z mada quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-13T00:46:43Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:48:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-13T00:48:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:50:51Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T00:54:27Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T00:54:41Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T00:54:42Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-13T00:55:48Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:02:06Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:02:41Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:05:43Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T01:07:28Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-13T01:07:58Z pierpa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T01:10:07Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:15:12Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:16:55Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T01:23:36Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:25:32Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T01:26:35Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-13T01:28:42Z nowhere_man quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-13T01:28:54Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:32:35Z OTS__ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:32:40Z mindCrime quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-13T01:32:44Z OTS_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T01:33:07Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:34:31Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T01:36:50Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-13T01:37:31Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T01:42:23Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:44:09Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:45:08Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-13T01:46:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:46:39Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T01:46:50Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:48:05Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:50:27Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T01:50:29Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:50:30Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-13T01:52:15Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-13T01:55:11Z akkad hunts for how I previously converted a hash table swapping key with values.
2017-01-13T02:00:37Z Mikasi joined #lisp
2017-01-13T02:00:47Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-13T02:05:45Z pjb: (let ((new (make-hash-table))) (maphash (lambda (k v) (setf (gethash v new) k)) old))
2017-01-13T02:06:24Z pjb: + return new at the end.
2017-01-13T02:07:27Z cromachina: optionally use push if you want to keep all keys for identical values
2017-01-13T02:07:54Z White_Flame: great read digging into Jak & Daxter's GOAL lisp system: http://www.codersnotes.com/notes/disassembling-jak/
2017-01-13T02:16:24Z akkad: pjb: looks like what I just did. :P
2017-01-13T02:17:13Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T02:18:36Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-13T02:19:21Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T02:23:07Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T02:31:23Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T02:31:33Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-13T02:32:42Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-13T02:35:30Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-13T02:35:49Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-13T02:37:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-13T02:37:32Z shdeng quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T02:39:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-13T02:39:29Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-13T02:40:11Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T02:42:58Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T02:43:23Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T02:44:11Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-13T02:44:49Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-13T02:46:11Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T02:47:25Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T02:50:31Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2017-01-13T02:51:02Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-13T02:51:25Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-13T02:54:39Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-13T02:55:53Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T02:57:16Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-13T02:59:39Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T03:03:04Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T03:04:16Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T03:08:35Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-13T03:09:11Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T03:11:11Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T03:12:32Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-13T03:13:13Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-13T03:13:34Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2017-01-13T03:13:44Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-13T03:14:36Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-13T03:21:53Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T03:23:08Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T03:23:21Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T03:23:44Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-13T03:24:13Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T03:24:14Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-13T03:28:37Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-13T03:32:10Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T03:36:04Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T03:39:37Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T03:41:11Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T03:42:21Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-13T03:42:53Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T03:44:45Z pjb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T03:51:15Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-13T04:02:44Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:04:05Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-13T04:04:22Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T04:05:58Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T04:06:56Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:07:08Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T04:09:17Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-13T04:10:09Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:10:54Z marusich joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:12:14Z Mynock^_^ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-13T04:13:55Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:14:40Z kamog joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:22:37Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:23:25Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:24:15Z ak51 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T04:24:39Z ak51 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:25:24Z nowolfer joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:32:02Z cyberlard is now known as MK-VIII
2017-01-13T04:32:19Z Quadresce` is now known as Quadrescence
2017-01-13T04:32:46Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-13T04:33:05Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:33:37Z jmarciano quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T04:38:07Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T04:40:45Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:41:22Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:41:42Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T04:42:47Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-13T04:43:03Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:46:44Z MK-VIII is now known as cyberlard
2017-01-13T04:47:07Z akkad: hi beach
2017-01-13T04:48:05Z drmeister: Hey beach.
2017-01-13T04:51:33Z Josh_2 quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-13T04:52:04Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T04:52:51Z drmeister: beach - what does this mean from your GF function paper?  "When a class is updated, every generic function that dispatches on this class5 is de- termined, and the call history of each such generic function is searched for entries using the class. These entries are removed and then..."
2017-01-13T04:53:02Z drmeister: Specifically "These entries are removed..."
2017-01-13T04:53:03Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:53:07Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T04:53:07Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-13T04:54:04Z drmeister: This sounds like entries are removed from call histories of generic functions - but I thought the call histories only grow and never shrink.
2017-01-13T04:54:14Z beach: drmeister: The call history contains the association between the signature (as a list of classes) of some particular call, and the corresponding effective method.
2017-01-13T04:54:50Z beach: drmeister: They shrink when there is an entry that is no longer "correct".
2017-01-13T04:55:42Z drmeister: What's not correct about them?   The methods no longer exist?   Or does the call history store the stamps and the stamps are out of date?
2017-01-13T04:55:49Z beach: So when a class is updated, it gets a new stamp.  Then, calling the generic function with an object having the old stamp must ffail.
2017-01-13T04:55:51Z beach: fail.
2017-01-13T04:56:48Z beach: The way I make it fail is that I remove entries that dispatch on such classes and recompute the discriminating function.
2017-01-13T04:57:25Z drmeister: So a call history entry consists of the list of stamps for each argument?   I assumed it was a list of classes for the arguments.
2017-01-13T04:57:44Z beach: It's the list of classes.
2017-01-13T04:58:19Z beach: I think what you are saying is that the entry does not have to be removed?
2017-01-13T04:58:40Z beach: It would be enough to recompute the discriminating function with new stamps?
2017-01-13T04:59:15Z dmaj joined #lisp
2017-01-13T04:59:19Z drmeister: That's what I was thinking - but I haven't tried implementing it - that's when I usually learn how things really work.
2017-01-13T04:59:45Z beach: I am not quite awake yet, so I need to see how I implemented this stuff and what I wrote in the paper.
2017-01-13T04:59:58Z drmeister: I think I understand how the dispatching works.   I'm fuzzy on the obsolete object updating.
2017-01-13T05:00:07Z drmeister: Ok, fair enough.
2017-01-13T05:00:23Z Mikasi quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-13T05:00:34Z beach: You just have to make sure that no generic function contains a discriminating function that will let an obsolete object pass.
2017-01-13T05:01:01Z drmeister: Right now I can generate a discriminator function that has one "miss" state.   I'm puzzling out if that's the way it's supposed to be and what I do when I hit that "miss" state.
2017-01-13T05:01:44Z beach: The first thing you do is you test whether the object you were given is obsolete, and if so, update it and try again.
2017-01-13T05:02:07Z drmeister: And if there are multiple arguments - I have to check them all - correct?
2017-01-13T05:02:20Z beach: If it is not obsolete, you invoke the big machinery: COMPUTE-APPLICABLE-METHODS etc.
2017-01-13T05:02:23Z drmeister: Or do they get checked argument by argumentl.
2017-01-13T05:02:28Z drmeister: Yes, that I understand.
2017-01-13T05:03:07Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T05:03:08Z beach: Updating objects is not going to be time critical, so you can have a single failure state and then test each argument.
2017-01-13T05:04:00Z beach: You can not know from the failure of one argument whether it is because that object is obsolete or just that you haven't seen the call before.
2017-01-13T05:06:46Z beach: OK, I think I know why I remove the entry (with reservations; I am not quite awake).  I think it is possible for the effective method to change in that case, because the precedence list of the class may have changed.
2017-01-13T05:07:37Z drmeister: I'll have to think on that one.
2017-01-13T05:07:42Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-13T05:08:40Z drmeister: So you take the call history and create a copy with those entries removed just for the purpose of calculating the discriminating function?   Or do you subtract them from the call history altogether?
2017-01-13T05:09:05Z beach: I remove them.
2017-01-13T05:09:33Z beach: But I might do that by creating a copy first, thinking I might use the CAS instruction for thread safety later.
2017-01-13T05:14:30Z beach: drmeister: Why are you concerned about removed entries?
2017-01-13T05:15:35Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-13T05:15:51Z whiteline quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T05:16:52Z whiteline joined #lisp
2017-01-13T05:21:52Z whiteline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T05:22:19Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T05:22:57Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-13T05:23:32Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-13T05:32:10Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-13T05:37:51Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-13T05:38:02Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-13T05:38:30Z drmeister: Sorry - got called away for a few minutes.   I'm just trying to understand the mechanics of obsolete object update.
2017-01-13T05:39:09Z beach: Oh, that's a different thing altogether.  As far as the generic-function code is concerned, all you need to do is detect the fact.
2017-01-13T05:39:31Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-13T05:39:44Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-13T05:40:34Z drmeister: I implemented that optimization that you described, grouping together classes with adjacent stamp values and identical outcomes.
2017-01-13T05:41:37Z drmeister: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/1UF7S88S/complex.dot.png
2017-01-13T05:42:11Z drmeister: This is for this set of methods - they all have the same outcome (:CRASH)
2017-01-13T05:42:14Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/ZXdFNGt3/
2017-01-13T05:42:54Z drmeister: The code it generates looks like this:
2017-01-13T05:42:55Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/O2Zt4Mak/
2017-01-13T05:42:56Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T05:43:16Z beach: OK.
2017-01-13T05:43:36Z drmeister: The argument #:ORIG-VARGS30219  is like a CONS list - it's a C-style va_list pointer.
2017-01-13T05:43:50Z beach: drmeister: Do you have a minute for me to try to justify why entries are removed?
2017-01-13T05:43:56Z drmeister: Sure.
2017-01-13T05:44:46Z circ-user-Yxu9X joined #lisp
2017-01-13T05:45:08Z beach: Suppose you have a class B that is a subclass of a class A.  Generic function F has been called with an instance of B.  An effective method is created that contains both methods specialized to A and to B, so that CALL-NEXT-METHOD works as advertised.
2017-01-13T05:45:24Z beach: Now, there is a change to B so that A is no longer a super-class.
2017-01-13T05:45:42Z beach: The instance of B is obsolete.
2017-01-13T05:45:54Z beach: But so is the effective method.
2017-01-13T05:46:07Z drmeister: Yes, I see that.
2017-01-13T05:46:23Z beach: So the entry must be removed, because it contains this effective method.
2017-01-13T05:46:35Z beach: OK?
2017-01-13T05:46:57Z drmeister: Ok.  So if you change a class you remove the entries that involve that class from the call-history of every generic function.
2017-01-13T05:47:14Z beach: Yes.
2017-01-13T05:47:31Z drmeister: ...of every generic function that dispatched on that class.
2017-01-13T05:47:31Z beach: That class and all its subclasses.
2017-01-13T05:47:38Z beach: Yes.
2017-01-13T05:47:45Z drmeister: Oh - and all of its subclasses.
2017-01-13T05:47:47Z drmeister: Ok - I see.
2017-01-13T05:47:54Z beach: Because they change as well.
2017-01-13T05:48:13Z beach: This information is kept for a class.
2017-01-13T05:48:30Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-13T05:48:49Z drmeister: There are different ways to change a class - you don't try to behave differently depending on if a person updates a slot name or changes the direct super-class - correct?   Any DEFCLASS causes this removal.
2017-01-13T05:49:04Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T05:49:20Z drmeister: It's just too complicated to do that kind of analysis.
2017-01-13T05:49:30Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-13T05:49:58Z burton` joined #lisp
2017-01-13T05:50:13Z burton`: Can somebody help? https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/5nooh4/treeunion_help_with_findingwriting_function/
2017-01-13T05:50:13Z beach: drmeister: I try to optimize my remaining life expectancy, so I try to avoid too many special cases, in particular when my intuition says that there will be no impact on run-time performance.
2017-01-13T05:50:36Z beach: drmeister: I know we are different in this respect.
2017-01-13T05:50:45Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-13T05:50:48Z drmeister: Your statement "This information is kept for a class" - what information is that specifically again?   I'm worried I missed something.
2017-01-13T05:51:06Z Bike: burton`: so it does union by level?
2017-01-13T05:51:26Z beach: drmeister: The MOP has information about the generic functions that have methods that specialize on a particular class.
2017-01-13T05:51:31Z beach: Let me dig it up for you...
2017-01-13T05:51:34Z Bike: and with no concern for ordder, hopefully
2017-01-13T05:51:43Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-13T05:52:57Z beach: mop specializer-direct-methods
2017-01-13T05:52:58Z specbot: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/specializer-direct-methods.html
2017-01-13T05:53:08Z beach: drmeister: ↑
2017-01-13T05:53:56Z Bike: maybe the dependent maintenace protocol could be used for once. imagine
2017-01-13T05:54:18Z beach: drmeister: So you call this generic function and get all the methods, and for each one, you call METHOD-GENERIC-FUNCTION to get to the generic function.
2017-01-13T05:54:53Z beach: Bike: As I recall, that is for purposes other than those that are explicitly documented.
2017-01-13T05:55:58Z yerbaBuena quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T06:00:15Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T06:01:26Z burton`: Bike: yes, union by level
2017-01-13T06:01:51Z burton`: I'm having trouble figuring it out how to write it and it seems like a pretty basic function
2017-01-13T06:02:02Z Bike: then it's not part of common lisp and i've never seen anybody ask for it before, so you'll probably have to write it yourself.
2017-01-13T06:02:10Z Bike: i'm not sure how it would be used, honestly.
2017-01-13T06:02:19Z beach: Nor how it would be defined.
2017-01-13T06:02:31Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T06:02:33Z beach: How many children can there be in each node?
2017-01-13T06:02:35Z Bike: probably you map over the lists, collect everything that's an atom, and then append together all the non-atoms and recruse.
2017-01-13T06:02:39Z beach: Does the order between those matter?
2017-01-13T06:02:41Z beach: etc, etc.
2017-01-13T06:02:54Z burton`: i'm looking to build a tree from paths
2017-01-13T06:03:11Z burton`: so i figure turning the paths into trees
2017-01-13T06:03:14Z Bike: if you smash up the order it doesn't seem like much of a tree.
2017-01-13T06:03:16Z burton`: and then doing a tree union would work
2017-01-13T06:03:29Z ak51 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-13T06:03:43Z burton`: sort of building a tree from the top down
2017-01-13T06:03:58Z burton`: the ordering of the nodes doesn't matter
2017-01-13T06:05:20Z burton`: just that each level of the tree is a union of the same levels of the other tree
2017-01-13T06:05:40Z Bike: i don't really understand, so probably just write it yourself to do whatever you need it to.
2017-01-13T06:05:48Z beach: burton`: So suppose you have (1 (2 (...)) (3 (...))) and (1 (3 (...) (2 (...))))
2017-01-13T06:06:02Z burton`: yes
2017-01-13T06:06:22Z beach: burton`: Do you get (1 (2 3 (...)) (3 2 (...)))
2017-01-13T06:06:33Z burton`: yes
2017-01-13T06:06:35Z beach: Or do you get (1 (2 3 (...)))
2017-01-13T06:06:42Z beach: Why, if the order doesn't matter?
2017-01-13T06:07:13Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T06:07:15Z burton`: ok, i guess order does matter
2017-01-13T06:07:16Z beach: (1 (2 (...)) (3 (...))) is the same as (1 (3 (...)) (2 (...)))
2017-01-13T06:07:26Z burton`: or it does in this case
2017-01-13T06:07:36Z beach: burton`: I think step one is for you to specify a bit more what you want.
2017-01-13T06:07:58Z beach: burton`: It is impossible to help, when all we have is an example and an incorrect specification.
2017-01-13T06:08:29Z burton`: (merge-tree `(("usr" ("local" ("bin")))) `(("usr" ("local" ("doc"))))) => (("usr" ("local" ("bin" "doc"))))
2017-01-13T06:08:40Z beach: Another example.
2017-01-13T06:08:42Z burton`: to make it more concrete
2017-01-13T06:08:59Z burton`: i'm trying to merge directory trees
2017-01-13T06:09:11Z burton`: from using split paths into an actual tree
2017-01-13T06:10:25Z beach: In my opinion, you should not use lists here.  I think it would be much clearer if you defined relevant classes.
2017-01-13T06:11:02Z burton`: how would you go about that?
2017-01-13T06:11:11Z beach: clhs defclass
2017-01-13T06:11:11Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defcla.htm
2017-01-13T06:11:29Z burton`: i mean the design
2017-01-13T06:11:35Z burton`: using classes, what would that achieve?
2017-01-13T06:12:01Z Bike: makes things more explicit.
2017-01-13T06:12:17Z beach: burton`: You could then distinguish lists that represent sub-directories and lists that represent, well, lists.
2017-01-13T06:12:27Z Bike: i'm not sure if ("usr" ("local" ("bin"))) is supposed to be /usr/local/bin or /usr//bin or what
2017-01-13T06:13:11Z littlypootis joined #lisp
2017-01-13T06:13:31Z itruslove quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T06:14:02Z beach: burton`: A directory would contain a list of entries.  Each entry could be a CONS of a name and a (sub-)directory.
2017-01-13T06:14:16Z burton`: they're all just directories
2017-01-13T06:14:24Z burton`: Bike: /usr/local/bin
2017-01-13T06:14:57Z burton`: this format of list displays properly inside the tree view in lispworks, that's why i'm using it
2017-01-13T06:15:05Z Bike: and is ("usr" ("local" ("bin" "doc"))) the set of /usr/local/bin and /usr/local/doc, or is it /usr/local/bin/doc ?
2017-01-13T06:15:16Z burton`: it is the set of the two
2017-01-13T06:15:18Z Bike: i mean, i don't need to know, it's just not immediately apparent
2017-01-13T06:15:37Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-13T06:15:39Z burton`: it's an n way tree
2017-01-13T06:16:26Z beach: burton`: So define it properly, and then convert it to whatever LispWorks needs when you display it.
2017-01-13T06:16:31Z Bike: well, yes, it's the list structure version of that that's not obvious.
2017-01-13T06:16:50Z burton`: beach: i'm trying not to go through that step if possible
2017-01-13T06:17:01Z burton`: i'm just wanting to work with the raw lists
2017-01-13T06:17:01Z beach: Whatever.
2017-01-13T06:17:19Z burton`: but it is an option that i haven't figured out yet
2017-01-13T06:17:20Z Bike: if i have /usr/foo and /usr/local/bin, is it ("usr" ("local" ("bin")) "foo") or ("usr" ("foo" "local" ("bin"))) or... etc.
2017-01-13T06:17:51Z whiteline joined #lisp
2017-01-13T06:18:01Z burton`: lots of good questions
2017-01-13T06:18:04Z burton`: thanks for the help
2017-01-13T06:22:07Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T06:23:40Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-13T06:25:53Z Ven quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-13T06:32:07Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-13T06:32:25Z circ-user-Yxu9X quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T06:36:05Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T06:36:23Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-13T06:49:21Z beach` joined #lisp
2017-01-13T06:49:59Z beach quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-13T06:50:04Z beach` is now known as beach
2017-01-13T06:57:18Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T06:57:59Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-13T06:58:12Z dmaj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T07:03:55Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:04:09Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-13T07:09:00Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T07:13:09Z marusich quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-13T07:15:38Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:18:34Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:19:09Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T07:19:49Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:20:10Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T07:21:26Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:26:42Z test1600 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T07:27:08Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:28:06Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:28:40Z tobel quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:28:40Z gbyers quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:28:40Z shikhin quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:28:40Z d4gg4d quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:28:41Z brucem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:28:41Z alphor quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:28:41Z ircbrowse quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:29:07Z aaronjensen quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:29:09Z tobel joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:29:12Z gbyers joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:29:34Z lancetw quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:30:01Z msmith quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:30:01Z splittist quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:30:01Z nicdev quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:30:01Z frug72 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:30:01Z alms_clozure quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:30:02Z Neet_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:30:28Z cyraxjoe quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:30:29Z benny quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:30:29Z mbrock quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:30:29Z |3b| quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:30:29Z pchrist quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:31:21Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:31:47Z d4gg4d joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:31:55Z |3b| joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:32:18Z lancetw joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:32:33Z pchrist joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:32:59Z msmith joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:33:18Z shikhin joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:33:21Z Neet_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:33:59Z mbrock joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:34:06Z splittist joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:34:07Z alms_clozure joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:35:27Z alphor joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:35:52Z benny joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:36:02Z frug72 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:36:42Z ircbrowse joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:36:43Z brucem joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:41:26Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-13T07:46:54Z myrkraverk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T07:58:49Z frug72 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:58:49Z alphor quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T07:58:49Z brucem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T08:00:47Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:04:02Z alphor joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:04:04Z frug72 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:05:16Z shka_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:05:46Z brucem joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:06:41Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T08:08:09Z d4ryus4 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:09:23Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:10:53Z d4ryus3 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T08:12:45Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:14:09Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:16:05Z drot quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T08:17:19Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:17:54Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:20:19Z bpf_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:29:45Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-13T08:33:51Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:34:52Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:35:02Z littlypootis quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T08:44:37Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:44:40Z drot joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:52:04Z lnostdal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T08:52:22Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:52:24Z mindCrime quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-13T08:52:51Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2017-01-13T08:58:36Z ggole joined #lisp
2017-01-13T09:00:06Z lnostdal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T09:02:36Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T09:04:35Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T09:05:37Z Bike quit (Quit: tire)
2017-01-13T09:10:13Z rjid43 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T09:10:21Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T09:11:59Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-13T09:12:14Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-13T09:13:30Z hhdave_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T09:16:27Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-13T09:16:27Z hhdave_ is now known as hhdave
2017-01-13T09:26:43Z mindCrime quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-13T09:27:09Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2017-01-13T09:27:38Z rjid43 is now known as rotring800
2017-01-13T09:29:23Z aaronjensen joined #lisp
2017-01-13T09:32:29Z rotring800 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-13T09:34:54Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T09:39:40Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-13T09:43:20Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-13T09:45:26Z jameser quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-13T09:46:22Z madmalik joined #lisp
2017-01-13T09:49:03Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T09:49:09Z malice`: beach: turns out the tutorial on earley parser that I linked yesterday covers the topics in the paper you mentioned(and refers to it), so I guess it's pretty decent tutorial. Still thanks for the reference!
2017-01-13T09:50:37Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-13T09:52:06Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T09:53:04Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T09:54:55Z ggole__ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-13T09:54:59Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-13T10:07:13Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-13T10:09:04Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-13T10:10:19Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T10:14:36Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-13T10:16:52Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-13T10:18:30Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-13T10:21:56Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-13T10:23:47Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-13T10:25:29Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-13T10:26:05Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T10:26:42Z kodnin quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-13T10:29:05Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T10:31:40Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T10:32:38Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-13T10:32:53Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T10:38:56Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T10:42:09Z ggole__ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T10:42:13Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-13T10:46:38Z Hugo joined #lisp
2017-01-13T10:46:47Z Hugo: What is lambda?
2017-01-13T10:47:02Z Hugo: And what are the relations of lambda and lisp?
2017-01-13T10:47:50Z easye: Lambda is a secret society of knights that has been in place since the crusades to acheive higher orders of functional programming.
2017-01-13T10:48:22Z Hugo: easye. I dont understad
2017-01-13T10:49:10Z Hugo: What is lambda for gods sake?
2017-01-13T10:49:21Z easye: Hugo:  Sorry making a joke.
2017-01-13T10:49:31Z easye: minion: clhs lambda
2017-01-13T10:49:33Z minion: does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you?
2017-01-13T10:49:49Z easye: minion: clhs reference for lambda
2017-01-13T10:49:50Z minion: lambda: please stop playing with me... i am not a toy
2017-01-13T10:49:59Z TMA: clhs lambda
2017-01-13T10:49:59Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_lambda.htm
2017-01-13T10:50:43Z TMA: Hugo: it is a concept from mathematics
2017-01-13T10:52:12Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T10:52:20Z Hugo: TMA, okay
2017-01-13T10:52:25Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-13T10:52:26Z TMA: Hugo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus
2017-01-13T10:52:40Z Hugo: TMA, most concepts of programming r all from math
2017-01-13T10:53:08Z beach: Hugo: In Common Lisp, you can think of lambda as a constructor for functions.
2017-01-13T10:53:21Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T10:53:30Z Hugo: beach, what is constructor?
2017-01-13T10:53:41Z beach: A think that constructs other things.
2017-01-13T10:53:42Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-13T10:53:46Z beach: A THING that...
2017-01-13T10:54:29Z Hugo: beach, what?
2017-01-13T10:54:59Z beach: Hugo: So, for instance (lambda (x) (+ x 3)) is an expression that, when evaluated, returns a function that takes one argument and returns the value that argument plus 3.
2017-01-13T10:55:13Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-13T10:56:10Z Hugo: beach, this is complicated :(
2017-01-13T10:56:27Z shka_: Hugo: not that complicated :-)
2017-01-13T10:56:48Z shka_: what beach is trying to say
2017-01-13T10:57:06Z beach: Hugo: Of course, if you lack knowledge in some domain, that domain initially seems complicated.
2017-01-13T10:57:08Z alienbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T10:57:22Z shka_: is that lambda after evaluation returns function object (to simplify)
2017-01-13T10:57:36Z shka_: you can say that it construct this function object
2017-01-13T10:57:41Z shka_: so it is constructor
2017-01-13T10:57:46Z Hugo: shka_, so instead of returing a value, returing a func
2017-01-13T10:58:00Z shka_: well, more like
2017-01-13T10:58:01Z beach: Hugo: In Common Lisp, functions are values too.
2017-01-13T10:58:03Z shka_: return function as value
2017-01-13T10:58:25Z beach: Hugo: Do you know any programming already?
2017-01-13T10:58:33Z shka_: well, it is what we call "first class functions"
2017-01-13T10:59:23Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T11:00:44Z Hugo: beach, yes, but not in Lisp, but basic CPP
2017-01-13T11:00:59Z malice`: Hugo: C++ has lambdas.
2017-01-13T11:01:05Z beach: And constructors.
2017-01-13T11:01:18Z malice`: Since you know basic C++, you know that there are functions, right?
2017-01-13T11:01:56Z malice`: Do you know std::function or so called functors?
2017-01-13T11:01:57Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T11:02:21Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T11:02:23Z beach: malice`: So you are making progress on the Earley parser?
2017-01-13T11:02:33Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-13T11:02:59Z malice`: beach: not yet, I had some things to do yesterday so I couldn't write much, but I hope to write this parser this weekend
2017-01-13T11:03:00Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-13T11:03:00Z Trystam quit (Changing host)
2017-01-13T11:03:00Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-13T11:03:19Z beach: malice`: I would be interested in seeing the result once you feel like sharing.
2017-01-13T11:03:23Z malice`: and I'm hoping to release it in some usable form
2017-01-13T11:03:28Z beach: Excellent!
2017-01-13T11:03:38Z malice`: Of course, that's my plan. I have not seen earley parser for CL, hence why I intend to write it.
2017-01-13T11:03:51Z malice`: If I encounter any problems I will be sure to ask here for help :)
2017-01-13T11:04:15Z beach: I have written a few, but you know how it is: a few years down the road, that code looks awful.
2017-01-13T11:04:16Z Hugo: I know functions and parameters
2017-01-13T11:04:47Z malice`: Yeah, time is the thing we all don't have.
2017-01-13T11:04:57Z beach: Indeed.
2017-01-13T11:05:06Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T11:05:06Z ggole joined #lisp
2017-01-13T11:05:25Z Trystam is now known as Tristam
2017-01-13T11:05:32Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-13T11:05:58Z malice`: Hugo: Imagine a simple function that accepts an int and returns an int. The function will return argument + 3. Something like: int f(int x){return x+3;} .
2017-01-13T11:06:43Z Hugo: malice`, aha yes
2017-01-13T11:06:44Z Hugo: understood
2017-01-13T11:07:00Z ggole__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-13T11:07:38Z malice`: Hugo: do you know pointers to function?
2017-01-13T11:07:44Z malice`: callbacks?
2017-01-13T11:07:51Z malice`: I don't know what abstraction to use
2017-01-13T11:07:56Z malice`: so that you can understand
2017-01-13T11:07:59Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T11:09:19Z joga quit (Changing host)
2017-01-13T11:09:20Z joga joined #lisp
2017-01-13T11:09:21Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T11:09:36Z malice`: I'll try for now to explain without going into too much detail. Imagine your friend wants to often write a program that asks user for input(some number), and prints the result of getting this number into some function.
2017-01-13T11:09:52Z malice`: For example, one of his program will print your number squared. Other program will print your number - 1, etc.
2017-01-13T11:10:12Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-13T11:10:51Z malice`: He is tired of typing the same code every time and asks you to write a function that will do that for him. Therefore, you write a function that takes a function as an argument. Your function would ask for input, and print the result of calling function with an input.
2017-01-13T11:11:50Z malice`: Something like (pseudo-code): void print_func(function x){ std::cout <<"Please, give me number: "; int x; std::cin >> x; std:: cout << "The result is: " << x << std::endl;}
2017-01-13T11:12:29Z malice`: Now your friend could (almost, because in C++ it's slightly more complicated, syntax-wise) just call "print_func(square)", assuming he has a function called "square".
2017-01-13T11:12:46Z shka_: "slightly" :D
2017-01-13T11:12:51Z malice`: :)
2017-01-13T11:13:29Z malice`: Notice, that your friend would have to use an unique name each time he wants to pass a function. This essentialy means that he would have to sometimes use stupid names, and pollute his namespace, just so he can pass the function.
2017-01-13T11:14:09Z malice`: That's where lambda comes in. You see, everything interesting in your function happens in the body. Therefore, you could just pass the body, right? Except you also need to tell what arguments you need. But with that, you're good to go - no need for name.
2017-01-13T11:14:17Z malice`: That's what lambda is - a function, without a name.
2017-01-13T11:15:02Z malice`: So instead of passing a function name, your friend could do something like this(this syntax is fictional): print_func( (int x){return x*x;});
2017-01-13T11:15:10Z malice`: Hugo: I tried my best to explain this in simple terms
2017-01-13T11:18:00Z Hugo: Ok
2017-01-13T11:19:40Z malice`: Hugo: Did it help? Is there something you don't understand?
2017-01-13T11:19:54Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-13T11:20:40Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T11:21:09Z Hugo: malice`, thanks, I understand it now
2017-01-13T11:21:34Z malice`: Great! Glad to help.
2017-01-13T11:22:20Z malice`: In Common Lisp, it looks like what beach showed you. In C++ it's much harder thanks to certain limitations and lambdas aren't as powerful there as they are in CL.
2017-01-13T11:22:25Z malice`: Plus, in C++ syntax is much worse.
2017-01-13T11:23:14Z Hugo: malice`, is CL the best Lisp dialect (better than racket and scheme)?
2017-01-13T11:23:22Z malice`: No
2017-01-13T11:23:42Z malice`: None of the dialects is best. Use the one you like the most. Each has its advantages and disadvantages.
2017-01-13T11:24:03Z shka_: Hugo: cl is niece because every implementation has reasonable debugger
2017-01-13T11:24:06Z TMA: malice`: add [] in front of the (int x){return x*x;} and you have a valid c++11 lambda: [](int x){return x*x;}
2017-01-13T11:24:08Z shka_: and stuff
2017-01-13T11:24:26Z shka_: standard is also reasonable
2017-01-13T11:24:38Z malice`: TMA: yes, but that [] doesn't make sense unless you know what it does and I wanted to make it as simple as possible(and similar to function definition from C++)
2017-01-13T11:24:50Z shka_: at the very least it is stable and mostly well designed
2017-01-13T11:24:59Z malice`: I believe new standard would be nice
2017-01-13T11:25:06Z malice`: No major changes, but it could be improved
2017-01-13T11:25:09Z shka_: sure
2017-01-13T11:25:27Z shka_: but things that already are in cl, are mostly fine
2017-01-13T11:25:46Z malice`: well, some :P
2017-01-13T11:25:52Z malice`: I don't like inconsistency in few cases
2017-01-13T11:25:54Z shka_: there are what-the-fucks here and there
2017-01-13T11:25:54Z malice`: and some other things
2017-01-13T11:25:57Z malice`: but they don't matter that much
2017-01-13T11:26:23Z malice`: (defhygenic) could be added
2017-01-13T11:26:44Z shka_: overall, i don't think there is a lot to complain about
2017-01-13T11:26:45Z malice`: maybe some threads specification
2017-01-13T11:26:52Z malice`: yes, there isn't.
2017-01-13T11:27:04Z malice`: Most of the stuff you could complain about you don't use.
2017-01-13T11:27:06Z shka_: malice`: envs should be in standard
2017-01-13T11:27:20Z shka_: and other things from cltl
2017-01-13T11:28:10Z shka_: a lot of work anyway
2017-01-13T11:28:56Z Hugo: Excuse me, but what is macro and macro system?
2017-01-13T11:29:00Z TMA: an ASSEMBLE counterpart to DISASSEMBLE perhaps?
2017-01-13T11:29:41Z shka_: TMA: that would be compile? :D
2017-01-13T11:29:48Z malice`: Hugo: It's a syntax in CL that allows you to write macros that generate code.
2017-01-13T11:29:52Z TMA: Hugo: if you evaluate ordinary code (+ 1 a) you take the value of 1 and the value of a and perform some operation
2017-01-13T11:30:13Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-13T11:30:19Z malice`: You have preprocessor macros in C++(e.g. #include or #define), but C++ has very "stupid" macros. CL macros are advanced and can do great things, but it's harder to understand
2017-01-13T11:30:31Z TMA: Hugo: in a macro, you take the expression themselves and produce other code, that gets evaluated instead
2017-01-13T11:30:42Z malice`: Generally, macro is a piece of code that produces other code.
2017-01-13T11:31:39Z shka_: well, more or less
2017-01-13T11:31:57Z john_g_: malice`, i was googling how lisp macros relate to c++ templates, but i can only find superficial statements about sharing concepts, how far do they overlap?
2017-01-13T11:32:03Z shka_: to really explain how it works, we would have to describe evaluation times
2017-01-13T11:32:24Z shka_: john_g_: not same thing at all
2017-01-13T11:32:34Z shka_: not even remotly
2017-01-13T11:33:12Z TMA: shka_: first, DISASSEMBLE should produce some implementation defined structured form (perhaps when :format 'whatever would be supplied).
2017-01-13T11:33:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-13T11:33:44Z shka_: john_g_: lisp macros operate on ASTs, templates operate on types
2017-01-13T11:33:59Z shka_: you can hack macros to produce types by generating code (not fun)
2017-01-13T11:34:01Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-13T11:34:13Z shka_: you can hack templates to generate code (not fun)
2017-01-13T11:34:20Z malice`: One thing to note is that C++ is typed. This has a big impact the code. In C++, you can have a template with the same name, but different definitions for certain types. In CL, you'd have to use single macro and dispatch on what you got.
2017-01-13T11:34:41Z malice`: This said, as shka_ noted, CL macros can produce any valid Lisp code, and C++ templates produce either functions or classess.
2017-01-13T11:34:47Z malice`: classes
2017-01-13T11:34:48Z TMA: shka_: the output would be suitable for input to ASSEMBLE that would produce a function equal (in some sense of equal) to the one given to DISASSEMBLE in the first case
2017-01-13T11:35:13Z shka_: TMA: ok, cool -- if you actually enjoy reading assembly
2017-01-13T11:35:24Z shka_: honestly, i'm terrible at that
2017-01-13T11:36:24Z malice`: john_g_: so I'd say that macros are superset of C++ templates, but you have to remember that C++ has static typing, which makes it a bit different
2017-01-13T11:36:31Z shka_: if we could just extend env in lisp with new category of lexical objects, we could reimplement templates in cl
2017-01-13T11:36:50Z malice`: I don't guarantee that I'm 100% sure though. I use macros in CL differently than templates in C++
2017-01-13T11:37:17Z malice`: One of the reasons is that in CL if you write a function, you can accept any type, and if you write it generic enough, you are good to go
2017-01-13T11:37:26Z malice`: (e.g. #'+ <- accepts bignums, ints, fixnums, etc.)
2017-01-13T11:37:32Z malice`: where in C++ you use templates to do that
2017-01-13T11:37:34Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-13T11:39:55Z TMA: malice`: in a sense, lisp macros and c++ templates are "just" some code, that runs during compilation; they both result in some new code being created, the workings are very different though
2017-01-13T11:41:08Z malice`: TMA: you can't create a template like macro in CL
2017-01-13T11:41:24Z malice`: e.g. with-macros; you can't do that in CL with templates. You can't accept block of code as an argument.
2017-01-13T11:41:39Z malice`: with-file("name", var) {something;}
2017-01-13T11:41:49Z malice`: you have RAII for that, however.
2017-01-13T11:42:14Z shka_: well, you in theory you can do everything with templates
2017-01-13T11:42:17Z john_g_: interesting, thanks for the elaboration
2017-01-13T11:42:33Z john_g_: however, what is an AST?
2017-01-13T11:42:35Z shka_: in practice, it is so complicated and error prone that it is not worthy
2017-01-13T11:42:41Z shka_: john_g_: abstract syntax tree
2017-01-13T11:42:46Z john_g_: ah
2017-01-13T11:43:16Z Hugo left #lisp
2017-01-13T11:44:45Z Walex joined #lisp
2017-01-13T11:44:46Z malice`: john_g_: a representation of code in form of a tree
2017-01-13T11:44:54Z malice`: compiler uses that to compile the code
2017-01-13T11:45:06Z malice`: shka_: you mean you can do what I just showed?
2017-01-13T11:45:10Z malice`: I'm quite sceptic.
2017-01-13T11:45:54Z malice`: afaik templates are turing-complete, so you can write 'any' program using templates, but they don't allow you to extend the language in such way as macros do
2017-01-13T11:46:47Z shka_: well not that
2017-01-13T11:46:58Z shka_: because of semantics
2017-01-13T11:47:49Z malice`: then I agree with you
2017-01-13T11:48:05Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-13T11:48:18Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-13T11:49:16Z shka_: i meant that actually templates are turing complete
2017-01-13T11:49:34Z shka_: ofc, it does not mean that any sane person would want to use those way
2017-01-13T11:50:14Z malice`: yes, I thought that's what you had in mind
2017-01-13T11:50:47Z azzamsa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T11:52:18Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T11:55:59Z shymega quit (Quit: So long, and thanks for all the talking doors.)
2017-01-13T11:56:51Z shymega joined #lisp
2017-01-13T11:58:15Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:01:45Z rjid quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T12:02:27Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T12:05:04Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:08:10Z baltazza joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:08:14Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T12:08:48Z baltazza: is there a way to set *read-base* on a per file basis for asdf?
2017-01-13T12:09:44Z jackdaniel: baltazza: yes, check out asdf extension file-local-variables
2017-01-13T12:09:50Z jackdaniel: asdf-flv I think
2017-01-13T12:11:53Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:12:21Z baltazza: the documentation for it seems quite lacking ...
2017-01-13T12:14:30Z jackdaniel: see appendix here: https://common-lisp.net/project/cdr/document/9/verna.11.cdr2.pdf
2017-01-13T12:15:23Z baltazza: and i don't see what this provides over just (eval-when (...) (setf *read-base* ...))
2017-01-13T12:15:59Z baltazza: what i was more looking for was some magic for .asd where i can say :read-base 8. -- or something
2017-01-13T12:16:25Z baltazza: asdf-flv requires modifying the actual source code .. and for that, i might just as well stick with eval-when clauses
2017-01-13T12:16:32Z jackdaniel: if you do (let ((*read-base* *read-base*)) (load "file")) then if file will modify *read-base*, then it won't influence things outside its own scope
2017-01-13T12:17:25Z baltazza: that is something i can either guarante or fix on my side though ...
2017-01-13T12:17:37Z jackdaniel: except the linked cdr (which isn't implemented anywhere yet) there is no other magic possibility for that. these functions may be called in the asd file, because it is unfortunately normal source file
2017-01-13T12:20:31Z baltazza: mm.. then i'll just use eval-when hacks.
2017-01-13T12:22:05Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T12:23:40Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T12:30:04Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:30:34Z cmatei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T12:30:50Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:31:35Z nowolfer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T12:31:51Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:32:02Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:32:07Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:33:03Z nowolfer joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:33:39Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:34:14Z cmatei joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:37:42Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-13T12:40:00Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:43:12Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T12:45:03Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T12:46:24Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:48:28Z baltazza quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-13T12:48:51Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-13T12:50:31Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:51:02Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:53:48Z chtjhu joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:55:31Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-13T12:55:34Z bigos quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T12:56:32Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-13T12:57:32Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T12:59:23Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-13T13:00:25Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T13:06:09Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-13T13:12:04Z william joined #lisp
2017-01-13T13:12:11Z william is now known as williamyaoh
2017-01-13T13:12:27Z jason_m` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T13:13:44Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-13T13:15:20Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T13:16:35Z FareTower quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T13:17:50Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-13T13:27:02Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-13T13:30:56Z malice` quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-13T13:34:17Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-13T13:40:22Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-13T13:49:13Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-13T13:55:48Z PuercoPop: jasom: Isn't if-feature meant for when *features* are modified between loading the system definition and loading the system?
2017-01-13T13:58:44Z jackdaniel: if-feature in asdf is meant for a reader
2017-01-13T13:58:53Z jackdaniel: rationale was for yet-not-developed archive-op
2017-01-13T13:59:22Z jackdaniel: you want to archive all files, but since asd file is read, read-time condition would hide some components
2017-01-13T13:59:38Z jackdaniel: s/archive-op/archive-op and such/
2017-01-13T13:59:55Z jackdaniel: and the resulting archive would miss important component
2017-01-13T14:00:25Z jackdaniel: so it is a "right" equivalent of saying #+sbcl (:file "bam")
2017-01-13T14:02:27Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-13T14:03:34Z PuercoPop: jackdaniel: not only archive-op would need that. In the case I'm mentioning above you would run a problem if you don't load a decadency but then when loading a file because the feature is now present, you'd evaluate the code that needed that dependency that the system definition wasn't aware of because it was not read when the system definition was loaded
2017-01-13T14:04:35Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T14:04:43Z jackdaniel: yes, hence the "and such"
2017-01-13T14:04:57Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T14:06:04Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-13T14:08:38Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-13T14:08:39Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-13T14:09:51Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-13T14:13:11Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-13T14:13:41Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-13T14:15:41Z crazy joined #lisp
2017-01-13T14:16:04Z crazy is now known as Guest51900
2017-01-13T14:18:13Z FareTower: PuercoPop: decadency!
2017-01-13T14:18:17Z mnoonan joined #lisp
2017-01-13T14:18:32Z oleo: 10 dancy
2017-01-13T14:19:39Z FareTower: there's a bug in asdf when a class is only defined when a feature is set, and is used in a component that is also only needed with this feature, but asdf errors anyway because it checks the class before the feature.
2017-01-13T14:20:21Z FareTower: I'm worried about the health of rpgoldman and his tenure as asdf maintainer :-(
2017-01-13T14:20:43Z oleo: heya Fare
2017-01-13T14:20:48Z FareTower: hola
2017-01-13T14:21:13Z oleo: how are you ?
2017-01-13T14:22:41Z Xach: FareTower: can you tell me what the failures in http://report.quicklisp.org/2017-01-12/failure-report/lisp-interface-library.html mean?
2017-01-13T14:23:00Z PuercoPop: FareTower: it appears to me that he is (justifiably) stressed about maintaining ASDF. It is thankless work basically.
2017-01-13T14:25:14Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T14:25:57Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-13T14:30:50Z FareTower: Xach: oh, damn, it means I failed to make fare-utils compatible with old versions of UIOP.
2017-01-13T14:31:00Z FareTower: let me fix that...
2017-01-13T14:31:15Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T14:32:17Z jerme joined #lisp
2017-01-13T14:32:51Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-13T14:33:33Z opt9 quit (Quit: Bye bye)
2017-01-13T14:34:29Z FareTower: which version of ASDF are you using? I need to debug with the same...
2017-01-13T14:34:52Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-13T14:35:17Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-13T14:35:24Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-13T14:35:56Z jackdaniel: it's at the very top of a report
2017-01-13T14:36:45Z FareTower: weird, I can't reproduce the bug with asdf 3.1.5
2017-01-13T14:37:32Z FareTower checks that he did push his changes to lil and fare-utils... and I did
2017-01-13T14:37:36Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-13T14:38:17Z FareTower: are you sharing the fasl cache between an old and new version of asdf?
2017-01-13T14:39:20Z Xach: The fasl cache is getting wiped out every time.
2017-01-13T14:39:22Z FareTower: OK, yes, I can reproduce in that case
2017-01-13T14:39:48Z FareTower: I compile fare-utils with asdf 3.2.0, and it reexports asdf's style-warn
2017-01-13T14:40:03Z FareTower: then I try to load fare-utils with asdf 3.1.5, and it complains that uiop doesn't have style-warn
2017-01-13T14:40:45Z FareTower: Hum. If the fasl cache is getting wiped... I'm not sure.
2017-01-13T14:41:50Z FareTower: are you sharing the fasl cache between loading uiop 3.2.0 on top of asdf 3.1.5 and loading lil without loading uiop 3.2.0 on top of asdf 3.1.5 ?
2017-01-13T14:43:46Z opt9 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T14:44:33Z FareTower considers removing style-warn altogether from fare-utils...
2017-01-13T14:45:29Z FareTower: (ideally, all of fare-utils should be removed or moved to alexandria and/or some other library, but oh well)
2017-01-13T14:46:38Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-13T14:46:42Z travv0 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T14:48:23Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-13T14:50:56Z FareTower pushed a new fare-utils without style-warn
2017-01-13T14:51:12Z FareTower: Xach: can you try with that new fare-utils? :-/
2017-01-13T14:52:34Z FareTower: (sorry for the inconvenience)
2017-01-13T15:02:56Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-13T15:03:34Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T15:04:41Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-13T15:08:14Z shymega quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T15:10:05Z FareTower quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T15:11:22Z Xach: The new fare-utils seems to have fixed things.
2017-01-13T15:11:36Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-13T15:15:07Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T15:20:09Z karswell` is now known as karswell
2017-01-13T15:25:07Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-13T15:25:13Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-13T15:27:52Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-13T15:28:57Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-13T15:29:57Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-13T15:32:00Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T15:34:11Z chtjhu is now known as Cthulhum
2017-01-13T15:34:36Z shymega joined #lisp
2017-01-13T15:35:11Z Xach:  /win 3
2017-01-13T15:35:12Z FareTower quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-13T15:36:36Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-13T15:40:38Z aries_liuxueyang: hey, I got a macro problem here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336476 I define a simple macro to replace lambda but confused what that doesn't work. Anyone can help me?
2017-01-13T15:41:50Z beach: aries_liuxueyang: The first position of a compound expression is not evaluated like the other positions.
2017-01-13T15:42:00Z beach: aries_liuxueyang: So it is not macroexpanded either.
2017-01-13T15:43:19Z beach: clhs 3.1.2.1.2
2017-01-13T15:43:19Z specbot: Conses as Forms: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_abab.htm
2017-01-13T15:43:33Z beach: aries_liuxueyang: ↑
2017-01-13T15:43:44Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-13T15:44:03Z beach: aries_liuxueyang: "If the car of the compound form is not a symbol, then that car must be a lambda expression, in which case the compound form is a lambda form."
2017-01-13T15:44:41Z aries_liuxueyang: beach, specbot  seems interesting.. I will read that. Thank you so much!
2017-01-13T15:45:05Z beach: Anytime!
2017-01-13T15:45:18Z beach: Yes, specbot is exactly for situations like this.
2017-01-13T15:46:38Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T15:46:55Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T15:47:17Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-13T15:59:23Z schjetne quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T16:00:49Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:03:24Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:03:50Z aries_liuxueyang: beach, Does it mean that the first position of a compound form will not be evaluated or macroexpanded?
2017-01-13T16:04:35Z mejja joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:05:54Z beach: aries_liuxueyang: Yes, that's what I said above:
2017-01-13T16:05:58Z beach: aries_liuxueyang: The first position of a compound expression is not evaluated like the other positions.
2017-01-13T16:06:02Z beach: aries_liuxueyang: So it is not macroexpanded either.
2017-01-13T16:07:42Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-13T16:08:39Z aries_liuxueyang: if it's a lambda forms. Didn't the repl have to evaluate the function object to apply it?
2017-01-13T16:08:52Z aries_liuxueyang: s/Didn't/Doesn't/
2017-01-13T16:09:09Z beach: No.  It treats it specially.
2017-01-13T16:09:57Z aries_liuxueyang: ok, got it. Thank you. :P
2017-01-13T16:10:04Z beach: Sure.
2017-01-13T16:13:35Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:14:30Z xyl joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:15:02Z slyrus joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:15:16Z mejja quit (Quit: \ No newline at end of file)
2017-01-13T16:17:20Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:17:23Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-13T16:19:12Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T16:24:32Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:26:34Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:30:50Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:32:35Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T16:36:42Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:40:01Z BusFactor1 quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-13T16:40:13Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-13T16:41:27Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:41:30Z xyl quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-13T16:41:47Z xyl joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:41:54Z xyl quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-13T16:42:40Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:45:56Z circ-user-Yxu9X joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:46:52Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T16:47:26Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-13T16:48:11Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-13T16:48:36Z BusFactor1 quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-13T16:50:06Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:52:35Z circ-user-Yxu9X quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T16:56:15Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:58:38Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T16:59:06Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T17:00:48Z PlasmaStar quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T17:04:47Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:05:50Z john_g_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T17:06:10Z john_g_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:06:34Z circ-user-Yxu9X joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:11:09Z BusFacto_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:11:24Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-13T17:12:46Z kushal joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:13:09Z kushal is now known as Guest14501
2017-01-13T17:14:36Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-13T17:15:00Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T17:16:03Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:16:32Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:19:19Z itruslove joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:23:35Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:24:00Z duikboot joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:24:05Z duikboot_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:24:22Z duikboot quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-13T17:25:00Z varjag: anyone here used fset?
2017-01-13T17:26:54Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T17:28:34Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-13T17:31:22Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:31:52Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-13T17:34:45Z circ-user-Yxu9X_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:36:08Z circ-user-Yxu9X quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T17:37:41Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-13T17:38:51Z duikboot_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-13T17:41:59Z circ-user-Yxu9X_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T17:44:25Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:50:02Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T17:50:04Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-13T17:51:34Z circ-user-Yxu9X joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:52:27Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:52:59Z loke: varjag: Yes
2017-01-13T17:53:44Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-13T17:54:12Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-13T17:54:38Z varjag: loke: i'm new to it, wonder if there's a good way to make a seq out of bag elements sorted by multiplicity
2017-01-13T17:55:32Z loke: varjag: Not sure. It's been a while since I used it.
2017-01-13T17:57:44Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-13T18:04:04Z jerme quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2017-01-13T18:04:36Z jerme joined #lisp
2017-01-13T18:06:37Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-13T18:09:35Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-13T18:18:56Z shka_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T18:21:16Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-13T18:23:18Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2017-01-13T18:24:02Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T18:24:32Z rebelshrug joined #lisp
2017-01-13T18:25:31Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-13T18:26:50Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-13T18:27:25Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-13T18:27:25Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-13T18:32:08Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-13T18:35:00Z `JRG quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-13T18:37:27Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-13T18:37:54Z BusFactor1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-13T18:47:08Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T18:48:06Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-13T18:51:44Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T18:52:37Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-13T18:55:01Z electriceel1985 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T18:58:19Z Guest51900 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-13T19:03:43Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-13T19:04:47Z jerme quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2017-01-13T19:05:57Z logicmoo joined #lisp
2017-01-13T19:06:26Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-13T19:07:03Z MrLawrence is now known as IPXSam
2017-01-13T19:08:03Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-13T19:08:55Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-13T19:13:42Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T19:20:12Z bocaneri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T19:23:07Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-13T19:25:39Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-13T19:36:27Z rebelshrug quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-13T19:38:34Z loke quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-13T19:46:05Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T19:48:17Z ebrasca quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T19:54:19Z yerbaBuena quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-13T19:55:34Z MrBusiness quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T20:02:31Z snits quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T20:06:31Z jerme joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:08:18Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:08:49Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:10:16Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T20:16:55Z MrBusiness joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:17:47Z tharugrim joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:18:51Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:18:54Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:21:13Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:21:13Z snits joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:22:36Z nowhere_man quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T20:22:49Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:23:36Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:26:26Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:27:08Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T20:27:46Z Cthulhum quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-13T20:28:13Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:29:06Z sellout-1 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:29:35Z sellout-1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-13T20:29:39Z sellout-2 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:32:32Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T20:34:47Z tharugrim quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-13T20:37:41Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-13T20:39:02Z IPXSam quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-13T20:41:06Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-13T20:58:05Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:58:53Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-13T20:59:03Z circ-user-Yxu9X quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T20:59:25Z circ-user-Yxu9X joined #lisp
2017-01-13T21:02:09Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T21:02:13Z kobain quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-13T21:03:14Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T21:04:02Z eschatologist quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T21:08:49Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T21:09:53Z bigos quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-13T21:10:56Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T21:12:55Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-13T21:16:20Z mfranzwa joined #lisp
2017-01-13T21:22:59Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-13T21:24:47Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T21:26:11Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T21:32:52Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T21:35:23Z cyraxjoe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-13T21:37:11Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2017-01-13T21:37:45Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T21:38:08Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2017-01-13T21:40:34Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T21:40:34Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-13T21:45:46Z arbv joined #lisp
2017-01-13T21:47:55Z sjl: Xach: I'm trying to understand what's going on with http://report.quicklisp.org/2017-01-13/failure-report/beast.html#beast-test but I'm not really sure how your build/load process works
2017-01-13T21:48:17Z sjl: Xach: if I have separate foo and foo-test systems, should foo-test depend-on foo?
2017-01-13T21:48:41Z Xach: sjl: I fetch the latest of every project, then make a big index of each .asd file, and then for each system file, I try, in an independent process, to load that system.
2017-01-13T21:48:54Z Xach: sjl: yes, definitely.
2017-01-13T21:49:50Z Xach: This tends to find a lot of implicit dependencies. e.g. because slime always loads systems x, y, and z, you can omit them without making your system fail to build. but it will fail in the quicklisp build process.
2017-01-13T21:50:09Z sjl: okay.  I usually run the tests by saying :in-order-to ((asdf:test-op (asdf:test-op :beast-test)) in the main system
2017-01-13T21:50:14Z ft quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T21:50:16Z sjl: and then (asdf:test-op 'beast)
2017-01-13T21:50:31Z sjl: which means the main system would always be loaded to begin with
2017-01-13T21:52:04Z sjl: or test-system or whatever it's called
2017-01-13T21:52:40Z sjl: Xach: one more question: does quicklisp just always pull the latest from the master branch as its source?
2017-01-13T21:53:01Z sjl: i.e. if I want to push some in-development-but-not-ready-to-release code I need to make a development branch
2017-01-13T21:53:07Z Xach: sjl: No. It has a lot of options about what to pull. But absent any special requests, that is what it does.
2017-01-13T21:53:24Z Xach: It can pull the latest tag, or the latest release, or from a particular branch, or from an URL
2017-01-13T21:53:37Z sjl: does "special request" mean "ask you in IRC"?
2017-01-13T21:53:39Z sjl: heh
2017-01-13T21:53:49Z phoe: I have a question about restarts.
2017-01-13T21:53:51Z john_g_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T21:54:26Z phoe: I have a function call, let's say (PRINT (FOO)). Inside (FOO), a condition is signaled, a handler handles it and invokes a restart.
2017-01-13T21:55:01Z Xach: sjl: Means "make it part of the github issue asking it to be added"
2017-01-13T21:55:01Z loke: phoe: Is there a RESTART-CASE inside of FOO?
2017-01-13T21:55:08Z phoe: loke: I don't know yet.
2017-01-13T21:55:17Z sjl: ah okay, it's manual though
2017-01-13T21:55:26Z phoe: Basically - I want to return a value from (FOO) despite the condition being signaled.
2017-01-13T21:55:27Z sjl: I'll keep that in mind
2017-01-13T21:55:29Z Xach: sjl: often people say "please add my project from https://github.com/blah/blahblah.git" and in that case, it fetches from master.
2017-01-13T21:55:50Z Xach: sometimes people say "pull from the quicklisp branch" or "use the latest github release" or something like that.
2017-01-13T21:56:05Z pjb: phoe: then you need to establish a restart in foo.
2017-01-13T21:56:07Z phoe: If I return a value from the restart, will this value be returned from (FOO) as well?
2017-01-13T21:56:10Z sjl: ok cool, I might use that in the future, thanks
2017-01-13T21:56:13Z pjb: yes.
2017-01-13T21:56:14Z loke: phoe: (print (handler-case (foo) (error () nil)))
2017-01-13T21:56:42Z phoe: loke: so NIL will be returned if an ERROR is signaled, yes?
2017-01-13T21:56:46Z loke: phoe: yes
2017-01-13T21:56:50Z phoe: I see.
2017-01-13T21:57:07Z phoe: This is one of the best things about Lisp that I'm learning.
2017-01-13T21:57:11Z loke: phoe: For restarts, the value will be returned from the RESTART-CASE that provided the restart.
2017-01-13T21:57:19Z phoe: loke: I see.
2017-01-13T21:57:27Z Xach: The time is ripe for more automation, more predictable releases, continuous autmoatic builds with author notification, etc. But I'm working on pgp stuff right now.
2017-01-13T21:57:38Z loke: phoe: If you know Java, then RESTART-CASE is like try/catch
2017-01-13T21:57:38Z pjb: (defun foo () (with-simple-restart (if (zerop (random 20)) (error "bad") (return-from foo 42))) #|default value:|# 33)
2017-01-13T21:58:07Z pjb: (defun foo () (with-simple-restart (return-default-value "Return a default value") (if (zerop (random 20)) (error "bad") (return-from foo 42))) #|default value:|# 33)
2017-01-13T21:58:10Z phoe: loke: I see.
2017-01-13T21:59:10Z pjb: phoe: java has nothing in common with restarts. try/catch is equivalent to handler-case.
2017-01-13T21:59:31Z loke: pjb: Yes, sorry.
2017-01-13T21:59:37Z phoe: Oh, right.
2017-01-13T21:59:38Z sellout-2 quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-13T21:59:40Z loke: I meant to say HANDLER-CASE, not RESTART-CASE
2017-01-13T22:00:00Z loke: Argh
2017-01-13T22:00:19Z pjb: phoe: notice that if you want a "retry", you will have to loop explicitely in foo.
2017-01-13T22:00:28Z phoe: Loop?
2017-01-13T22:00:54Z loke: phoe: Preferably.
2017-01-13T22:01:09Z pjb: (defun foo () (loop (with-simple-restart (retry "Retry") (with-simple-restart (return-default-value "Return a default value") (if (zerop (random 20)) (error "bad") (return-from foo 42))))) #|default value:|# 33)
2017-01-13T22:01:11Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-13T22:01:19Z pjb: s/20/2/
2017-01-13T22:02:08Z pjb: oops,
2017-01-13T22:02:30Z pjb: (defun foo () (loop (with-simple-restart (retry "Retry") (with-simple-restart (return-default-value "Return a default value") (if (zerop (random 2)) (error "bad") (return-from foo 42))) (return-from foo  #|default value:|# 33))))
2017-01-13T22:02:31Z loke much prefers RESTART-CASE in favour of WITH-SIMPLE-RESTART. In particular in the case where there are more than one restart.
2017-01-13T22:02:37Z pjb: Yes.
2017-01-13T22:03:10Z pjb: case with no error:
2017-01-13T22:03:11Z pjb: cl-user> (foo)
2017-01-13T22:03:11Z pjb: 42
2017-01-13T22:03:11Z pjb:  
2017-01-13T22:03:19Z pjb: case with one error, retry:
2017-01-13T22:03:20Z pjb: cl-user> (foo)
2017-01-13T22:03:20Z pjb: Invoking restart: Retry
2017-01-13T22:03:24Z pjb: 42
2017-01-13T22:03:24Z pjb:  
2017-01-13T22:03:29Z loke: phoe: I think you might really want to read this: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-exception-handling-conditions-and-restarts.html
2017-01-13T22:03:35Z pjb: case with two errors, retry and default:
2017-01-13T22:03:36Z pjb: cl-user> (foo)
2017-01-13T22:03:39Z pjb: Invoking restart: Retry
2017-01-13T22:03:39Z pjb: Invoking restart: Return a default value
2017-01-13T22:03:42Z pjb: 33
2017-01-13T22:03:45Z pjb:  
2017-01-13T22:04:52Z pjb: Now, the funny thing is when you write handler-bind handler to select a restart!  The handler-bind can be either outside or inside the restart binding form!
2017-01-13T22:05:38Z phoe: loke: I am, I was.
2017-01-13T22:06:01Z loke: All right. I'm heading to bed now.
2017-01-13T22:06:04Z loke: See you guys :-)
2017-01-13T22:06:12Z pjb: Good night!
2017-01-13T22:06:23Z phoe: What about HANDLER-BIND though?
2017-01-13T22:07:31Z pjb: you can use compute-restarts and invoke-restart in a handler.
2017-01-13T22:08:15Z pjb: A handler-bind that is outside of the restart-case could still select one of those restats, if the error occurs during the restart-case expression.
2017-01-13T22:08:42Z pjb: this is good for general error handling.
2017-01-13T22:09:13Z phoe: If I have (handler-bind ((error (lambda (e) (bar e)))) (foo)).
2017-01-13T22:09:31Z pjb: On the other hand, a handler-bind (or handler-case) inside the restart-case is able to select the restart more precisely, in function of its body form, and assuming more knowledge about the available restarts.
2017-01-13T22:09:55Z phoe: Then, if I have (error) inside FOO, then (BAR E) will be called in its place. Am I right?
2017-01-13T22:10:33Z pjb:  (handler-bind ((error (let ((ntry 3)) (lambda (e) (invoke-restart (if (plusp (decf ntry)) 'retry 'return-default-value)))))) (foo))
2017-01-13T22:10:39Z pjb: automatic error handling.
2017-01-13T22:11:10Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T22:11:26Z pjb: phoe: you can call BAR, but you couldn't "inject" a result for foo from the handler, unless you go thru global variables or some other channel.
2017-01-13T22:11:45Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-13T22:11:47Z papachan quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-13T22:12:38Z phoe: By "inject", do you mean that I cannot achieve something like (signal 'error) returning 3 if (bar e) returns 3?
2017-01-13T22:12:49Z pjb: exactly.
2017-01-13T22:12:56Z phoe: In other words, what happens to the return value of (bar e)?
2017-01-13T22:13:20Z pjb: But restarts take arguments, so you can (invoke-restart 'return-value (bar))
2017-01-13T22:13:34Z pjb: in error handlers it's ignored.
2017-01-13T22:14:00Z phoe: Is RETURN-VALUE a default restart?
2017-01-13T22:14:18Z pjb: nope.
2017-01-13T22:14:42Z pjb: brb
2017-01-13T22:14:54Z phoe: I see.
2017-01-13T22:19:02Z ft joined #lisp
2017-01-13T22:19:25Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-13T22:29:54Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T22:29:54Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T22:31:35Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-13T22:34:24Z libreman: What kind of test is used with ~case~?
2017-01-13T22:34:55Z jerme quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2017-01-13T22:35:05Z xuxuru quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-13T22:35:52Z mood: libreman: eql
2017-01-13T22:36:00Z libreman: Thanks mood
2017-01-13T22:40:25Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T22:44:31Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-13T22:47:21Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-13T22:49:40Z circ-user-Yxu9X quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T22:50:45Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-13T22:50:49Z malice: Good evening
2017-01-13T22:52:40Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-13T22:53:51Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-13T22:56:40Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-13T22:57:26Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T23:01:20Z clintm joined #lisp
2017-01-13T23:01:56Z rumbler3_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T23:04:27Z clintm: In cl-rabbit, do any of you happen to know how to set the message prefetch count?
2017-01-13T23:04:45Z clintm: Was looking for something like 'qos' in other libs, but to no avail.
2017-01-13T23:05:10Z malice: When I was asking in here about making a hash-table with keys being custom classes, someone suggested their red-black tree implementation. Is this person in here? I forgot to save the link
2017-01-13T23:05:37Z BusFacto_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-13T23:06:02Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-13T23:08:14Z bpf_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T23:17:46Z clintm: malice: http://ircbrowse.net/browse/lisp?q=malice
2017-01-13T23:19:48Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-13T23:20:52Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-13T23:23:04Z dyelar quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T23:23:32Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-13T23:24:45Z malice: Thanks!
2017-01-13T23:25:17Z clintm: any time!
2017-01-13T23:27:33Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-13T23:28:13Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-13T23:31:27Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-13T23:31:41Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-13T23:37:28Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-13T23:42:04Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-13T23:42:06Z bigos quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-13T23:43:30Z fare__ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T23:45:25Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-13T23:47:01Z FareTower quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-13T23:47:39Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-13T23:49:43Z himmAllRight quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-13T23:50:57Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-13T23:54:28Z madmalik quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-13T23:56:23Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-13T23:56:39Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-13T23:56:58Z knicklux quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-13T23:59:09Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-13T23:59:32Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-14T00:01:10Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-14T00:02:35Z fare__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T00:05:46Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-14T00:06:56Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-14T00:08:05Z FareTower quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T00:08:32Z killmaster quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-14T00:10:02Z killmaster joined #lisp
2017-01-14T00:20:54Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T00:21:29Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T00:22:38Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-14T00:23:13Z dddddd quit (Quit: Hasta otra..)
2017-01-14T00:24:36Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-14T00:26:02Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-14T00:26:59Z daniel-s quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-14T00:35:42Z mingus joined #lisp
2017-01-14T00:36:55Z mingus quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-14T00:41:29Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-14T00:42:56Z pjb quit (Quit: Be seeing you in the Village!)
2017-01-14T00:43:40Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T00:43:43Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-14T00:43:46Z bigos quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-14T00:45:19Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-14T00:51:39Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-14T01:07:30Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-14T01:07:41Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-14T01:08:36Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-14T01:09:32Z xrash joined #lisp
2017-01-14T01:10:18Z gazini quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-14T01:10:33Z snits quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T01:11:11Z snits joined #lisp
2017-01-14T01:22:15Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-14T01:23:03Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-14T01:23:05Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T01:23:34Z burton` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T01:25:26Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-14T01:29:10Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T01:30:55Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-14T01:35:01Z lisp_in_2017_hah joined #lisp
2017-01-14T01:35:09Z lisp_in_2017_hah: hello XD
2017-01-14T01:35:30Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-14T01:35:53Z lisp_in_2017_hah: what's the state of clim ?
2017-01-14T01:36:08Z malice left #lisp
2017-01-14T01:36:57Z spawned4562 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-14T01:39:09Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-14T01:40:45Z akkad: stateless
2017-01-14T01:41:03Z akkad: lisp_in_2017_hah: see #clim
2017-01-14T01:43:01Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-14T01:48:01Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T01:49:34Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-14T01:56:25Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T02:01:01Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-14T02:02:05Z FareTower quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T02:03:24Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-14T02:05:26Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-14T02:05:35Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T02:08:48Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-14T02:09:51Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-14T02:10:52Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T02:11:55Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-14T02:13:20Z stardiviner quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-14T02:20:55Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-14T02:26:15Z clintm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T02:26:54Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-14T02:27:18Z lisp_in_2017_hah quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-14T02:30:07Z nrp3c quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-14T02:38:34Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-14T02:39:46Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-14T02:41:12Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-14T02:45:18Z FareTower: Hi.
2017-01-14T02:46:01Z FareTower: philip-jose is utterly bitrotten. I started updating it to work with a recent iolib, but it also depends on things that have bitrotten in fare-utils. Sigh.
2017-01-14T02:46:37Z Xach: http://report.quicklisp.org/2017-01-13/failure-report/fare-scripts.html#fare-scripts
2017-01-14T02:48:03Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-14T02:49:23Z FareTower: Xach: I pushed a fix for that already
2017-01-14T02:49:39Z FareTower: Xach: I would remove philip-jose from Quicklisp
2017-01-14T02:50:37Z FareTower: the green threads in local-task are worth saving somehow, but would ideally have to be ported to a better continuation library than arnesi
2017-01-14T02:53:46Z FareTower: alternatively, I can resurrect an old binary-heap from fare-utils, or finish porting it to lil, or have philip-jose use a different library for that.
2017-01-14T02:56:21Z FareTower: but lacking a user base, what's the point? (with a user base, the bitrot would have been discovered and fixed immediately)
2017-01-14T02:57:02Z FareTower: still, parallel tasks, rendez-vous, race-to-finish, etc., are fun.
2017-01-14T02:57:49Z heurist` joined #lisp
2017-01-14T02:58:30Z heurist quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-14T03:02:42Z arescorpio quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-14T03:03:28Z heurist` is now known as heurist
2017-01-14T03:04:00Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-14T03:08:35Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-14T03:09:04Z FareTower: Xach: thanks for Quicklisp, BTW!
2017-01-14T03:12:33Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-14T03:14:34Z mfranzwa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T03:14:43Z mfranzwa joined #lisp
2017-01-14T03:16:30Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-14T03:17:11Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-14T03:18:52Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-14T03:22:28Z slyrus joined #lisp
2017-01-14T03:23:12Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-14T03:25:05Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T03:31:17Z adlai joined #lisp
2017-01-14T03:35:15Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-14T03:35:15Z unbalancedparen quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-14T03:35:40Z antonv joined #lisp
2017-01-14T03:35:50Z unbalanced joined #lisp
2017-01-14T03:42:46Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T03:44:58Z daniel-s quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-14T03:45:07Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-14T03:52:42Z larme quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-14T03:53:12Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2017-01-14T04:01:35Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T04:04:47Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-14T04:09:54Z Guest14501 is now known as kushal
2017-01-14T04:10:41Z akkad: trying to generalize a function, the top one is specific to sourceport, but the second, I'm trying to rewrite to get passed a given field and = to it's value of slot https://gist.github.com/cdd33e91dd2df774c4bc3c68d1a3a7d4
2017-01-14T04:10:45Z kushal quit (Changing host)
2017-01-14T04:10:45Z kushal joined #lisp
2017-01-14T04:10:45Z kushal is now known as Guest67571
2017-01-14T04:14:51Z Guest67571 is now known as kushal
2017-01-14T04:18:01Z john_g_ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T04:20:44Z larme joined #lisp
2017-01-14T04:28:06Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-14T04:29:50Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-14T04:30:05Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-14T04:34:31Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T04:41:00Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-14T04:41:39Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-14T04:44:36Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-14T04:46:45Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-14T04:48:05Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T04:48:54Z FareTower quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-14T04:49:48Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-14T04:53:25Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-14T04:59:35Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T04:59:57Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T05:00:07Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-14T05:03:57Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-14T05:05:44Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T05:06:57Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-14T05:09:18Z arescorpio quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-14T05:10:27Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-14T05:11:35Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T05:15:31Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T05:19:29Z Intensity quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-14T05:20:02Z akkad quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-14T05:22:56Z mfranzwa quit
2017-01-14T05:27:22Z haxmeister joined #lisp
2017-01-14T05:27:38Z Intensity joined #lisp
2017-01-14T05:27:43Z haxmeister: good evening
2017-01-14T05:28:57Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-14T05:30:17Z akkad joined #lisp
2017-01-14T05:33:46Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-14T05:35:20Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-14T05:36:02Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-14T05:40:21Z akkad quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-14T05:42:09Z Intensity quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-14T05:42:47Z Intensity joined #lisp
2017-01-14T05:45:33Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-14T05:45:42Z akkad joined #lisp
2017-01-14T05:46:34Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-14T05:47:42Z scottj joined #lisp
2017-01-14T05:49:25Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T05:55:23Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-14T05:56:04Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T05:58:13Z vlatkoB quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-14T05:58:25Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-14T05:58:30Z beach: Hello haxmeister.
2017-01-14T05:58:46Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-14T05:59:10Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-14T06:07:42Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-14T06:08:33Z macdavid313 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T06:09:37Z haxmeister:  hello
2017-01-14T06:09:45Z haxmeister: hello beach
2017-01-14T06:11:26Z haxmeister left #lisp
2017-01-14T06:12:11Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-14T06:13:34Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T06:15:04Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-14T06:17:10Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-14T06:24:22Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-14T06:40:46Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T06:41:39Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-14T06:49:47Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-14T06:52:07Z coyo quit (Quit: Heaven is not a place, Bartleby, it's being with people who love you.)
2017-01-14T06:54:13Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-14T06:54:18Z coyo joined #lisp
2017-01-14T06:58:52Z eschatologist joined #lisp
2017-01-14T07:05:00Z Guest51280 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T07:05:06Z coyo quit (Quit: Heaven is not a place, Bartleby, it's being with people who love you.)
2017-01-14T07:06:07Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-14T07:07:47Z Guest51280 is now known as coyo
2017-01-14T07:07:58Z coyo quit (Changing host)
2017-01-14T07:07:58Z coyo joined #lisp
2017-01-14T07:09:17Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-14T07:18:20Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-14T07:22:53Z tmtwd quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-14T07:30:13Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-14T07:45:59Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-14T07:47:17Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-14T07:47:27Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-14T07:50:11Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-14T07:58:00Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-14T08:02:20Z durson_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-14T08:04:28Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T08:05:31Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-14T08:08:30Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2017-01-14T08:11:04Z vibs29 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-14T08:11:31Z d4ryus4 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T08:15:39Z vibs29 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T08:17:35Z bpf_ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T08:21:01Z krasnal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T08:24:15Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-14T08:27:57Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-14T08:30:24Z teggi joined #lisp
2017-01-14T08:40:27Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T08:41:04Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-14T08:42:39Z yeticry_ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T08:44:26Z Bike quit (Quit: no it's "sleep")
2017-01-14T08:45:16Z yeticry quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-14T09:06:42Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T09:07:27Z lisp99 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T09:08:02Z lisp99: what library people use for common data-structures?
2017-01-14T09:08:25Z FreeBird_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T09:10:14Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T09:17:20Z smokeink joined #lisp
2017-01-14T09:17:52Z beach: lisp99: I don't think you will find a single library for all common data structures.
2017-01-14T09:18:05Z beach: lisp99: Do you have any particular use case in mind?
2017-01-14T09:18:25Z lisp99: rbtree and queues for now
2017-01-14T09:21:36Z beach: loke has a red-black tree implementation.
2017-01-14T09:22:07Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-14T09:22:12Z beach: A queue is so simple that most people just write it from scratch.
2017-01-14T09:22:51Z beach: What are the use cases you have in mind for those data structures?
2017-01-14T09:23:30Z shka_ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T09:23:38Z lisp99: rbtree for a db strcture
2017-01-14T09:24:24Z lisp99: i was gonna just write the queue myself but i realized i need a rbtree so if i could use some common library for them
2017-01-14T09:26:29Z beach: For a queue, you can also use my Flexichain.  It is a bit more economical in terms of space than a list would be: https://common-lisp.net/project/flexichain/
2017-01-14T09:27:42Z beach: You can install flexichain using Quicklisp.
2017-01-14T09:28:24Z beach: What operations do you think you will need on the tree?
2017-01-14T09:28:54Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-14T09:30:01Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T09:30:38Z lisp99: insert remove search
2017-01-14T09:30:50Z beach: Search with a key?
2017-01-14T09:30:55Z lisp99: yes
2017-01-14T09:31:02Z beach: Then you are better off using a hash table.
2017-01-14T09:33:06Z jackdaniel:  (which doesn't require any library, because are part of the standard)
2017-01-14T09:33:26Z logicmoo is now known as dmiles
2017-01-14T09:36:48Z lisp99: it will work for now
2017-01-14T09:38:01Z jackdaniel: Xach: I'm backporting some pull requests from 7max/log4cl to sharplispers – should I push to master, or make a pull request?
2017-01-14T09:41:45Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-14T09:42:16Z beach: There are way fewer applications for trees than the literature suggests.
2017-01-14T09:44:05Z beach: Only when the element order is required are trees useful.  For instance if there is a requirement to traverse the elements in the order imposed by the domain.  Or when the tree is used to implement an editable sequence.
2017-01-14T09:46:29Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-14T09:54:48Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-14T09:58:12Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-14T10:00:26Z jnknknk joined #lisp
2017-01-14T10:00:28Z jnknknk: .
2017-01-14T10:02:34Z jnknknk quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-14T10:02:46Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-14T10:03:25Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-14T10:03:31Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T10:04:14Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T10:07:55Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-14T10:26:33Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-14T10:29:02Z nowolfer quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-14T10:29:22Z nowolfer joined #lisp
2017-01-14T10:29:49Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-14T10:30:10Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T10:30:29Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-14T10:30:50Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-14T10:36:30Z jsnell quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-14T10:42:40Z jmarciano quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T10:45:28Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-14T10:45:52Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-14T11:06:54Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-14T11:12:40Z jsnell joined #lisp
2017-01-14T11:12:42Z heurist` joined #lisp
2017-01-14T11:13:51Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T11:15:01Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-14T11:18:03Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T11:19:25Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-14T11:19:40Z phoe: Afternoon.
2017-01-14T11:20:12Z shka_: phoe: hi
2017-01-14T11:20:24Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-14T11:23:58Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-14T11:25:12Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-14T11:29:54Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-14T11:31:50Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-14T11:40:36Z shifty joined #lisp
2017-01-14T11:41:45Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-14T11:43:50Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-14T11:49:23Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T11:56:01Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T12:00:48Z Xach: jackdaniel: just push, I'd say. willing to defer to someone with more deeply felt opinion.
2017-01-14T12:02:43Z jackdaniel: I've made a PR, if nobody will blame for for breaking things till tomorrow I'll merge it :)
2017-01-14T12:03:07Z Xach: ou cannot escape the swift and unyielding blame
2017-01-14T12:03:11Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-14T12:03:45Z jackdaniel: :)
2017-01-14T12:04:13Z shifty: what is the "#+SBCL" and "#-SBCL" syntax called?
2017-01-14T12:04:42Z jackdaniel: read-time conditionalization facility
2017-01-14T12:04:55Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-14T12:04:55Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-14T12:04:55Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-14T12:04:58Z jackdaniel: I simply call it read-time condition
2017-01-14T12:06:23Z shifty: jackdaniel: thank you - I couldn't find any documentation without knowing what to call it :-)
2017-01-14T12:06:40Z jackdaniel: shifty: check out l1sp.org
2017-01-14T12:06:52Z jackdaniel: it finds even unsearchable quirks like "#+"
2017-01-14T12:09:09Z zooey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T12:09:14Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-14T12:10:01Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-14T12:12:55Z jurov: is there fulltext search like this? like, when i query for "proper list" to get all mentions from clhs
2017-01-14T12:12:57Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-14T12:13:45Z jurov: and before someone says "have you donated?" - does clhs license allow setting up a mirror with this functionality added?
2017-01-14T12:20:16Z beach: What you can legally do with the Common Lisp HyperSpec is fairly limited.
2017-01-14T12:20:52Z beach: But it was created from a public document, and there is a project to create a similar, but more modern looking document from the same public document.
2017-01-14T12:21:06Z beach: You may want to talk to phoe about that project.
2017-01-14T12:24:36Z Xach: There are multiple projects, I hope one comes to fruition.
2017-01-14T12:25:00Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-14T12:25:03Z beach: Right.
2017-01-14T12:25:46Z Xach: I would like to have a bound, printed hyperspec someday.
2017-01-14T12:25:49Z Xach: sorry, spec.
2017-01-14T12:25:55Z Xach: not the hyperspec.
2017-01-14T12:26:51Z beach: That's a fairly easy one.  You can just build it from the TeX sources.
2017-01-14T12:26:56Z beach: I was able to do that.
2017-01-14T12:27:38Z Xach: Good to know
2017-01-14T12:32:17Z jzp joined #lisp
2017-01-14T12:37:10Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T12:37:51Z beach: I would personally like a web version that can be annotated.
2017-01-14T12:38:36Z jackdaniel: I think there was such a project, not sure about the state
2017-01-14T12:38:44Z jackdaniel: let me look in my messy bookmarks ;)
2017-01-14T12:41:09Z jackdaniel: I have found only this, not sure if its the same thing I remember – it doesn't mention html nor annotations in readme
2017-01-14T12:41:12Z jackdaniel: https://github.com/LispLang/ansi-spec
2017-01-14T12:44:04Z mouldysammich joined #lisp
2017-01-14T12:47:00Z beach: Oh, right.  By eudoxia.
2017-01-14T12:48:18Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-14T12:51:35Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-14T12:51:50Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-14T12:52:02Z honeymead joined #lisp
2017-01-14T12:52:47Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-14T12:53:51Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-14T12:58:00Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-14T13:10:02Z phoe: beach: aaah.
2017-01-14T13:10:08Z phoe: you've reminded me of it.
2017-01-14T13:10:11Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T13:10:24Z vicfred joined #lisp
2017-01-14T13:10:39Z phoe: Well, the ELS is coming up. I might want to spend some more time on it.
2017-01-14T13:10:50Z MrLawrence is now known as IPXSam
2017-01-14T13:13:14Z phoe: The issue is - even when I have time now, I spend it on writing Lisp and not working on redoing its documentation.
2017-01-14T13:14:41Z smokeink: http://www.lispforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4260
2017-01-14T13:15:08Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-14T13:15:24Z smokeink: has anyone tried literate programming with lisp? what tools do you recommend
2017-01-14T13:16:32Z easye: smokeink: Emacs with org-mode Babel is not a bad place to start.
2017-01-14T13:17:34Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2017-01-14T13:17:38Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-14T13:22:14Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-14T13:23:55Z nowhere_man quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-14T13:24:30Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-14T13:28:11Z shka_: smokeink: i kinda like codex
2017-01-14T13:28:20Z shka_: it is sort of like sphinx
2017-01-14T13:28:24Z shka_: not as good
2017-01-14T13:28:31Z shka_: but pretty ok
2017-01-14T13:36:00Z smokeink: shka_: do you have a link to codex webpage/repo ?
2017-01-14T13:36:02Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-14T13:36:24Z smokeink: oh i found it http://commondoc.github.io/codex/
2017-01-14T13:36:29Z shka_: yes
2017-01-14T13:36:36Z shka_: it is not that perfect
2017-01-14T13:36:59Z shka_: but result html is attractive
2017-01-14T13:37:44Z smokeink: this vid inspired me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av0PQDVTP4A
2017-01-14T13:39:51Z Rach3 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T13:41:05Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T13:42:52Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-14T13:43:13Z Colleen__ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T13:43:13Z Colleen_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-14T13:46:51Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-14T13:49:01Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T13:50:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-14T13:56:22Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-14T13:59:20Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T14:00:01Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T14:00:45Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-14T14:02:58Z jameser quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-14T14:04:44Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-14T14:07:23Z raynold: ahh it's a wonderful day
2017-01-14T14:08:34Z honeymead quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T14:11:19Z smokeink: http://mainesail.umcs.maine.edu/pubs/Papers/2010/ilc2010.pdf
2017-01-14T14:16:03Z drmeister: Where does it say in the CLHS what happens when you do (make-array '(0 0 0))  - an array with zero elements?
2017-01-14T14:16:56Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-14T14:20:08Z jurov: leo-editor is good multilanguage litprog tool
2017-01-14T14:23:00Z papachan quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-14T14:23:22Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-14T14:27:20Z shka_: jurov: it is actual editor or emacs extension?
2017-01-14T14:28:35Z shka_: never mind
2017-01-14T14:28:40Z shka_: i found it
2017-01-14T14:29:00Z pjb: drmeister: what wouldn't happen? You just create an array with 0 elements, with rank 3, with dimensions 0 0 0, and with element type T.
2017-01-14T14:29:05Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-14T14:29:31Z jurov: there's life outside emacs :)
2017-01-14T14:30:04Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-14T14:30:07Z pjb: drmeister: valid array dimension is also defined to be a fixnum >=0
2017-01-14T14:30:13Z shka_: jurov: yeah, bu emacs has slime
2017-01-14T14:31:23Z pjb: drmeister: also, make-array specifies a list for dimensions, not a non-empty-list, so (make-array '()) is good do.
2017-01-14T14:31:32Z pjb: (rank 0, no dimensions).
2017-01-14T14:31:40Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T14:31:41Z pjb: (make-array '()) #| --> #0A0 |#
2017-01-14T14:31:42Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-14T14:31:49Z pjb: (make-array '(0 0 0)) #| --> #3A() |#
2017-01-14T14:32:50Z pjb: drmeister: see also 15.1.1 Array Elements
2017-01-14T14:33:26Z pjb: notably 15.1.1.2 Array Dimensions and 15.1.1.3 Array Rank
2017-01-14T14:37:14Z Rach3 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-14T14:39:00Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-14T14:40:20Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-14T14:41:44Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T14:46:44Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-14T14:47:43Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-14T14:49:17Z Patzy joined #lisp
2017-01-14T14:50:03Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-14T14:53:49Z isBEKaml joined #lisp
2017-01-14T14:54:36Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-14T14:55:15Z john_g__ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T14:55:22Z Xach: so much jackdaniel email this morning
2017-01-14T14:55:31Z john_g_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T14:56:38Z drmeister: pjb: Thank you.
2017-01-14T14:56:54Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-14T14:57:01Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T14:57:04Z loke: Xach: I wish I had lots of Jackdaliens in the morning.
2017-01-14T14:58:39Z jackdaniel: :)
2017-01-14T15:01:42Z isBEKaml quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-14T15:10:19Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2017-01-14T15:11:52Z Joreji joined #lisp
2017-01-14T15:15:45Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-14T15:18:53Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-14T15:19:38Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-14T15:26:16Z knobo: varjag: are you there?
2017-01-14T15:28:28Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-14T15:36:30Z vicfred quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-14T15:36:55Z itruslove quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2017-01-14T15:36:56Z Guest73411 quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2017-01-14T15:42:26Z teggi quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T15:42:42Z itruslove joined #lisp
2017-01-14T15:43:06Z smokeink quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-14T15:44:20Z bigos quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-14T15:46:38Z giraffe joined #lisp
2017-01-14T15:46:43Z giraffe is now known as Guest23983
2017-01-14T15:49:18Z lisp99: what's geographic distribution of lisp programmers? :p
2017-01-14T15:49:58Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-14T15:51:03Z circ-user-QcIM5 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T15:51:42Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-14T15:52:05Z IPXSam: Hi guys why do you have to type (funcall #'+ 1 2 3) like that>
2017-01-14T15:52:09Z IPXSam: *?
2017-01-14T15:52:19Z IPXSam: the #'function is confusing
2017-01-14T15:52:56Z axion: #' is a function designator.
2017-01-14T15:53:12Z lisp99: IPXSam: it's because of lisp-2
2017-01-14T15:53:43Z jackdaniel: IPXSam: you may write (funcall (function '+) 1 2 3)
2017-01-14T15:53:52Z jackdaniel: or (defparameter + #'+)
2017-01-14T15:53:55Z jackdaniel: (funcall + 1 2 3)
2017-01-14T15:54:03Z IPXSam: I see, thanks
2017-01-14T15:54:11Z axion: You could just as well, type (funcall '+ ...), but #' will have precedence in local scope.
2017-01-14T15:54:31Z mood: jackdaniel: you should leave out the ' in your (function ...) example
2017-01-14T15:54:34Z mood: :)
2017-01-14T15:54:52Z jackdaniel: mood: right, my bad :)
2017-01-14T15:56:06Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-14T15:57:34Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T15:58:29Z axion: a simple example of the difference: https://gist.github.com/mfiano/6411c8ff2d758195918befbd0a1bb0cd
2017-01-14T16:01:46Z beach: lisp99: When I spent a year in Auckland, New Zealand, there were about 4 Lisp programmers within a radius of a 3 hour flight.
2017-01-14T16:03:59Z beach: lisp99: There are quite a few in Europe, as the success of ELS shows.  There are regularly close to 100 participants.  Some participants come from elsewhere, though (Japan, America, etc)
2017-01-14T16:05:17Z beach: lisp99: The last ILC (International Lisp Conference) was held in Montreal and had 35 participants.
2017-01-14T16:06:04Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-14T16:06:54Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T16:07:23Z lisp99: yeah i see a ja_lisp subreddit; i suppose there are quite a few from japan
2017-01-14T16:09:09Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T16:09:35Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T16:10:28Z circ-user-QcIM5: why does some code I see use #:foo in it's defpackage form rather than :foo or "FOO"?
2017-01-14T16:11:17Z beach: circ-user-QcIM5: A few reasons...
2017-01-14T16:11:18Z knobo: Could I get some help with this: I do  (ql:quickload :cl-jpeg) and then: (jpeg::allocate-buffer 1920 1080 3) and then sbcl crashes.
2017-01-14T16:11:21Z circ-user-QcIM5: I don't really understand the "introduces an uninterned symbol" bit in the CLHS
2017-01-14T16:11:47Z knobo: or maybe not..
2017-01-14T16:12:01Z beach: circ-user-QcIM5: First, #:foo is less sensitive to how the reader handles case.
2017-01-14T16:12:31Z knobo: I have to do some more debugging.
2017-01-14T16:12:54Z beach: circ-user-QcIM5: Second, it looks strange to use "FOO" and then prefix "foo:" on symbols.
2017-01-14T16:12:58Z circ-user-QcIM5: knobo: It seems to work fine in SBCL on Linux for me
2017-01-14T16:13:25Z beach: circ-user-QcIM5: Third, #:foo does not create unnecessary symbols in the keyword package, the way :foo does.
2017-01-14T16:13:50Z beach: circ-user-QcIM5: An uninterned symbol is a symbol without a package.
2017-01-14T16:14:25Z circ-user-QcIM5: Ah ok. That explains why I was seeing completions for keywords corresponding to my function names
2017-01-14T16:14:40Z knobo: circ-user-QcIM5: yes, it was not the problem after all. I have to debug more.
2017-01-14T16:15:14Z circ-user-QcIM5: So it seems better to use #: in defpackage in general?
2017-01-14T16:15:39Z beach: circ-user-QcIM5: I always do it, but not everybody shares my obsessions. :)
2017-01-14T16:16:35Z beach: circ-user-QcIM5: I also use that prefix for exported symbols in a package definition.
2017-01-14T16:17:20Z IPXSam: Whats the difference between (list i dont know whats happening) and '(i dont know whats happening) ??
2017-01-14T16:17:39Z IPXSam: the first one, if any of the symbols are ubnound, it fails
2017-01-14T16:17:47Z IPXSam: but in the second one, with the quote that's not happening
2017-01-14T16:17:48Z beach: IPXSam: The first one is a function call.
2017-01-14T16:18:10Z beach: IPXSam: ... so the arguments are evaluated before the function is called.
2017-01-14T16:18:44Z lisp99 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-14T16:18:49Z beach: IPXSam: The second one is short for (quote (i dont know whats happening)), and QUOTE is a special operator that returns its argument unevaluated.
2017-01-14T16:18:58Z beach: clhs quote
2017-01-14T16:18:58Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_quote.htm
2017-01-14T16:19:00Z beach: clhs list
2017-01-14T16:19:01Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_list.htm
2017-01-14T16:19:17Z IPXSam: right, right okay thats the important bit about the arguments not being evaluated, so how does it exactly return them?
2017-01-14T16:19:47Z beach: For QUOTE?  It takes a single argument.
2017-01-14T16:20:08Z sjl: IPXSam: I wrote something about this kind of stuff a while ago you may or may not find useful: http://stevelosh.com/blog/2016/06/symbolic-computation/
2017-01-14T16:20:10Z IPXSam: because say I do (butlast '(some random list)) they will be evaluated by butlast or is not the argument return unevaluted but some other property of the object?
2017-01-14T16:20:32Z beach: IPXSam: QUOTE is not a function.  The compiler treats it specially.
2017-01-14T16:20:58Z beach: IPXSam: Your sentence is incomprehensible.
2017-01-14T16:21:34Z beach: IPXSam: In (butlast '(some random list)), BUTLAST is a function.
2017-01-14T16:21:45Z beach: So the argument will be evaluated before the function is called.
2017-01-14T16:21:56Z beach: The argument is (quote (some random list)).
2017-01-14T16:21:59Z IPXSam: beach, the arguments I give to quote within ( and ) are not evaluated. So I wonder what is actually being fed to butlast
2017-01-14T16:22:18Z beach: So now we have to evaluate (quote (some random list)).
2017-01-14T16:22:51Z beach: QUOTE is a special operator so it has its own evaluation rule.  For QUOTE the rule is to return the argument unevaluated, i.e. (some random list).
2017-01-14T16:23:13Z beach: This (now evaluated) argument is then passed to BUTLAST.
2017-01-14T16:23:47Z beach: BUTLAST does its work and returns a new list, which is like its argument except that the last CONS cell has been removed.
2017-01-14T16:24:44Z beach: IPXSam: Do you understand?
2017-01-14T16:25:30Z beach: IPXSam: What is between ( and ) in the QUOTE expression are not arguments to QUOTE.
2017-01-14T16:25:57Z beach: IPXSam: There is a single argument to QUOTE and that is the list (some random list); a list with three symbols in it.
2017-01-14T16:26:16Z IPXSam: I get it now. Thank you.
2017-01-14T16:26:22Z beach: Anytime!
2017-01-14T16:26:52Z phoe: A function that accepts three arguments is like (MY-FUNCTION FOO BAR BAZ).
2017-01-14T16:27:55Z phoe: (QUOTE (SOME RANDOM LIST)) has one argument there: a list which has three elements in it.
2017-01-14T16:28:30Z beach: I think that is what I said, or at least I meant to. :)
2017-01-14T16:28:47Z phoe: beach: yes. :D
2017-01-14T16:29:13Z phoe: Basically, (QUOTE (SOME RANDOM LIST)) and (QUOTE SOME RANDOM LIST) are two very different things.
2017-01-14T16:29:29Z circ-user-QcIM5: beach: thanks for your explanation of #:
2017-01-14T16:29:31Z phoe: (And it's not just the fact that the latter will give you a compilation error.)
2017-01-14T16:31:13Z beach: circ-user-QcIM5: Sure.
2017-01-14T16:34:18Z jason_m joined #lisp
2017-01-14T16:39:16Z IPXSam: Guys if I have a two dimensional vector how can I get the first row? aref only extracts elements.
2017-01-14T16:44:16Z phoe: IPXSam: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12327237/common-lisp-how-to-access-a-row-of-a-certain-multi-dimension-array
2017-01-14T16:45:32Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T16:46:02Z IPXSam: Makes me not want to use vectors lol
2017-01-14T16:46:10Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-14T16:48:14Z heurist`_ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T16:48:34Z heurist` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T16:49:37Z himmAllRight quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-14T16:50:16Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-14T16:55:19Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-14T17:00:50Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T17:01:53Z dpg quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-14T17:02:14Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T17:06:38Z lisp99 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T17:07:26Z lisp99: fixnums have 30 bits on a 32-bit platform for sbcl?
2017-01-14T17:08:02Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-14T17:08:08Z lisp99: ah nvm it's 29 bits
2017-01-14T17:10:38Z beach: IPXSam: A vector is by definition a one-dimensional array.
2017-01-14T17:11:20Z travv0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T17:21:49Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T17:24:31Z john_g__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T17:27:55Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T17:30:10Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-14T17:30:16Z john_g_ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T17:31:09Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-14T17:33:33Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-14T17:34:23Z xorox90 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T17:37:01Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-14T17:38:59Z knobo: Opticl does not load jpgs with cmyk color space :(
2017-01-14T17:40:14Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T17:42:05Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-14T17:44:10Z Joreji quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T17:44:38Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T17:44:44Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-14T17:46:21Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-14T17:58:54Z diogofranco: I had to write this lib, so I made some tests and docs and opened it up: https://github.com/diogoalexandrefranco/cl-cache-tables
2017-01-14T17:59:08Z shka_: diogofranco: thanks!
2017-01-14T17:59:52Z diogofranco: :) hopefully is useful to someone.
2017-01-14T18:01:27Z dpg quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-14T18:14:27Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2017-01-14T18:17:02Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-14T18:20:39Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-14T18:20:43Z lisp99: where do you envision the usage of timer based caching?
2017-01-14T18:20:45Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-14T18:21:05Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T18:21:40Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T18:27:21Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-14T18:29:01Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-14T18:29:38Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-14T18:29:46Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-14T18:34:46Z ryanwatkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T18:35:53Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-14T18:36:33Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-14T18:37:42Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-14T18:37:49Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-14T18:42:00Z diogofranco: lisp99: My usecase is caching a bunch of json specs that belong to a different system. I just retrieve the original when it expires and there is no need for cache invalidation, its fine for my usecase
2017-01-14T18:42:14Z diogofranco: not sure how common it is though. but redis is used a lot in this way
2017-01-14T18:42:46Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-14T18:45:12Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-14T18:49:21Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-14T18:49:54Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T18:54:56Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-14T18:56:45Z beach: diogofranco: If you want to avoid that the docstring lines get indented, you can use a trick that I have started using, namely #.(format nil "bla bla..")  When you have a format string, you can finish a line with ~@ and the leading whitespace on the following line is ignored.
2017-01-14T18:58:20Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-14T18:59:45Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-14T19:01:37Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T19:02:18Z wheelsucker quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-14T19:03:54Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2017-01-14T19:06:42Z zooey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T19:06:49Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-14T19:07:09Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-14T19:07:10Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-14T19:07:22Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-14T19:08:08Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-14T19:15:58Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-14T19:16:51Z electriceel1985 quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-14T19:19:03Z IPXSam is now known as MrLawrence
2017-01-14T19:19:29Z random-nick joined #lisp
2017-01-14T19:21:58Z MrLawrence: so if I define  (defun sum (&rest set) (let ((total 0)) (dolist (x set) (setq total (+ x total))) total)) and later do (sum 1.2 1.2 1.2) I get 3.6000001
2017-01-14T19:22:07Z MrLawrence: What's going on?
2017-01-14T19:22:26Z pjb: MrLawrence: What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19957-01/806-3568/ncg_goldberg.html   and   What Every Programmer Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic http://floating-point-gui.de/
2017-01-14T19:23:07Z pjb: MrLawrence: also: (defun sum (&rest args) (reduce (function +) args))
2017-01-14T19:23:18Z pjb: MrLawrence: also: (defun sum (&rest args) (apply  (function +) args))
2017-01-14T19:23:18Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T19:23:40Z pjb: Here we can use apply since the number of argument will be below call-arguments-limit, given they come from &rest.
2017-01-14T19:23:41Z MrLawrence: I was just testing my basic lisp skills
2017-01-14T19:23:47Z pjb: yep.
2017-01-14T19:24:03Z pjb: (setq total (+ x total)) --> (incf total x)
2017-01-14T19:24:34Z pjb: and you can use the third expression in dolist for the result: (let ((total 0)) (dolist (x set total) …))
2017-01-14T19:24:56Z MrLawrence: I see
2017-01-14T19:25:00Z pjb: MrLawrence: this is why Common Lisp provides ratio: (sum 12/10 12/10 12/10) #| --> 18/5 |#
2017-01-14T19:25:13Z pjb: MrLawrence: (round (sum 12/10 12/10 12/10))
2017-01-14T19:25:15Z pjb: MrLawrence: (round (sum 12/10 12/10 12/10)) #| --> 4 ; -2/5 |#
2017-01-14T19:25:24Z pjb: MrLawrence: (float (sum 12/10 12/10 12/10) 0.0) #| --> 3.6 |#
2017-01-14T19:26:15Z pjb: Notice that the error obtained above comes from the float-point sums.  Here the sum is exact 18/5 and the conversion to float is therefore more precise!
2017-01-14T19:27:16Z MrLawrence: I learned floating point as base and mantissa
2017-01-14T19:27:27Z MrLawrence: I don't know if that's fundamentally different from what this article is explaining
2017-01-14T19:27:28Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-14T19:27:28Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-14T19:27:28Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-14T19:28:16Z pjb: MrLawrence: this is not fundamentally different, but you need to be conscious of the consequences of base and mantissa.
2017-01-14T19:40:47Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-14T19:44:15Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-14T19:45:54Z test1600_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T19:46:08Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-14T19:46:35Z lisp99: how do i see in-memory representation of heap objects for sbcl?
2017-01-14T19:47:18Z phoe: pjb: http://i.imgur.com/k1EeRAy.png
2017-01-14T19:47:31Z pjb: :-)
2017-01-14T19:51:22Z pjb: MrLawrence: we spend years in school studying ℕ, ℤ, ℝ and ℂ, but no time is spent on floating point numbers, or "manual" numbers we use to compute by hand.  Math teachers could certainly spend some time on floating-points, showing how strange a set of number it is, and how it fails to have the same good properties of the other sets of numbers, how "approximate" it is.
2017-01-14T19:54:53Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-14T20:04:42Z xorox90 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-14T20:05:29Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-14T20:07:35Z Rembrandt joined #lisp
2017-01-14T20:11:00Z zooey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T20:11:16Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-14T20:15:23Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-14T20:17:18Z john_g_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-14T20:19:30Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T20:22:34Z Rembrandt quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-14T20:23:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-14T20:23:31Z random-nick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-14T20:25:28Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-14T20:26:46Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-14T20:30:06Z fraya joined #lisp
2017-01-14T20:30:12Z Davidbrcz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-14T20:31:42Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-14T20:36:48Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-14T20:39:00Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-14T20:39:54Z travv0 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T20:41:30Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-14T20:41:50Z jleija quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-14T20:46:52Z random-nick joined #lisp
2017-01-14T20:47:03Z random-nick quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-14T20:48:32Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-14T20:51:15Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T20:53:36Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-14T20:54:17Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-14T21:01:25Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T21:01:36Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-14T21:03:24Z lisp99 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-14T21:03:28Z pyx joined #lisp
2017-01-14T21:03:36Z pyx quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-14T21:06:34Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T21:08:54Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T21:11:07Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-14T21:11:29Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-14T21:11:29Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-14T21:11:29Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-14T21:22:06Z hhdave quit (Quit: hhdave)
2017-01-14T21:22:09Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-14T21:25:40Z mishoo_ quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2017-01-14T21:25:50Z _death: MrLawrence: if you still want to use floating point, you can use Kahan summation for better accuracy
2017-01-14T21:30:33Z fraya quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-14T21:31:57Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-14T21:32:00Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-14T21:39:44Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-14T21:40:58Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-14T21:43:29Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T21:43:39Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-14T21:45:35Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T21:49:47Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T21:52:33Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-14T21:53:50Z deank quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-14T21:54:26Z Bourne joined #lisp
2017-01-14T22:00:48Z Marak joined #lisp
2017-01-14T22:02:06Z Marak: can anyone assist? i am trying to pass code into a lisp program as a command line argument. very close, but i keep getting my code wrapped in an additional (), which is causing eval to fail.
2017-01-14T22:02:23Z Marak: (print (format nil "~a" (cdr *args*))), end up outputting: "((format t \"Hello, World\"))", where i want: "(format t \"Hello, World\")"
2017-01-14T22:02:26Z Marak: i have no idea how to lisp
2017-01-14T22:03:11Z Marak: being run with:  clisp ./examples/services/echo/echo.lisp -c "(format t \"Hello, World\")"
2017-01-14T22:03:29Z Bike: (cdr '(1 2)) is (2) instead of 2. same here.
2017-01-14T22:04:38Z Marak: how do I fix Bike?
2017-01-14T22:05:00Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T22:05:24Z Bike: use second instead of cdr. or something else, depending on what you're doing
2017-01-14T22:05:47Z Bike: you should probably learn how to lisp enough to work that out, it's very basic
2017-01-14T22:06:16Z Marak: Bike: confirmed, `second` worked perfectly, thanks
2017-01-14T22:06:40Z Marak: just learning the syntax and keywords. know how to program a bit, but not very well at all in lisp ( yet )
2017-01-14T22:06:45Z Marak: thank you very much!
2017-01-14T22:11:07Z loke quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-14T22:12:52Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-14T22:13:29Z random-nick joined #lisp
2017-01-14T22:15:46Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-14T22:16:53Z Marak: i'm writing some software that will take a JSON hash table and generate CommonLisp code so that the data can be used in clisp further down the pipe. is a clisp hash table a good data structure for this? http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/hashes.html
2017-01-14T22:17:42Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-14T22:18:36Z Bike: a hash table sounds like a fine thing to use as a hash table, sure
2017-01-14T22:21:14Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-14T22:22:54Z Marak: :-)
2017-01-14T22:23:00Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-14T22:25:47Z circ-user-QcIM5 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-14T22:27:19Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-14T22:31:05Z Marak: okay, i got another one. i'm passing in this string to *args* : "(format t \"Hello there\")(format t \"Hello bear\")" and when i run: (print (read-from-string (format nil "~a" (second *args*)))), it's outputting: (FORMAT T "Hello there"), ignoring the second statement. is that expected?
2017-01-14T22:31:53Z Bike: remember how i said you should learn enough to work this out?
2017-01-14T22:32:01Z Bike: clhs second
2017-01-14T22:32:01Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_firstc.htm
2017-01-14T22:32:13Z Bike: you can see here what the function does
2017-01-14T22:32:23Z Marak: i'm doing my best, came here for help...sorry if i'm bothering. i have like 8 tabs open with googled clisp tuts
2017-01-14T22:32:33Z Bike: minion: pcl
2017-01-14T22:32:33Z minion: pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2017-01-14T22:32:55Z heddwch quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T22:33:02Z Bike: it sounds like you could use an organized book rather than disconnected tutorials
2017-01-14T22:33:49Z Marak: i lost my copy of land of lisp book, i should try to find a pdf
2017-01-14T22:33:50Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-14T22:34:15Z Marak: i'm very close to what i need done here. :-)
2017-01-14T22:34:47Z Bike: well, to sum up, 'second' returns the second element of a list
2017-01-14T22:35:00Z heddwch joined #lisp
2017-01-14T22:35:04Z Bike: not the second and the third, which i guess you want
2017-01-14T22:35:05Z Marak: thats what i figured, but my second element of the list should just be that string of code
2017-01-14T22:35:34Z Marak: my intent is to have it all in one element, its come from -c command line argument, which value happens to be second in *args*
2017-01-14T22:35:42Z Bike: based on your first question, *args* is a list (something (format t "Hello there") (format t "Hello bear"))
2017-01-14T22:36:08Z Marak: yes, first item is "-c", second item is now,  "(format t \"Hello there\")(format t \"Hello bear\")"
2017-01-14T22:36:17Z Bike: apparently not.
2017-01-14T22:36:46Z Marak: i can confirm the string value is correct before i attempt to read-from-string
2017-01-14T22:36:55Z Bike: *args* is a list, not a string. i don't know how you're converting your string into a list.
2017-01-14T22:37:27Z Marak: i'm trying to run: (eval (read-from-string (format nil "~a" (second *args*)))), where second *args* is a clisp code as text
2017-01-14T22:37:33Z Marak: it works for one line scripts, but not more
2017-01-14T22:37:43Z Marak: its cutting off multiple statements, even if i put them on the same line?
2017-01-14T22:38:15Z Bike: okay, well, i know why that's happening. but first, why are you doing (read-from-string (format nil "~a" ...))?
2017-01-14T22:39:18Z Marak: because i'm a noob?
2017-01-14T22:39:30Z Bike: but how did you arrive at that
2017-01-14T22:39:47Z Marak: (print (read-from-string "(format t \"Hello there\")(format t \"Hello bear\")")) is ultimately what is trying to be run
2017-01-14T22:40:04Z Marak: no idea Bike, really.
2017-01-14T22:40:11Z Marak: assume its wrong
2017-01-14T22:40:50Z pjb: Marak: have you printed *args* at least once?
2017-01-14T22:41:06Z Bike: well, it's like saying (read-from-string (write-to-string foo)), ie it ought to be just foo. (though it's not because ~a doesn't try to produce readable output)
2017-01-14T22:41:42Z d4ryus: Marak: i guess its because READ-FROM-STRING just reads a single object, ur strings contains 2
2017-01-14T22:41:43Z pjb: Also, the argument following -c is not always the second argument.
2017-01-14T22:41:44Z Marak: Bike: that makes sense, could you suggest a better way of doing it?
2017-01-14T22:41:59Z Bike: (eval (second *args*))
2017-01-14T22:41:59Z Marak: i just got a pdf of land of lisp. i think i left my last hard-copy in india
2017-01-14T22:42:04Z Marak: trying now
2017-01-14T22:42:20Z Bike: but if (second *args*) is ((format ...) (format ...)) that won't work
2017-01-14T22:42:44Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-14T22:42:59Z pjb: In any case, you have to test this case explicitely.
2017-01-14T22:43:44Z Marak: (eval (second *args*)) doesnt work though, no output when second *args* is: "(format t \"Hello tare\")(format t \"Hello bear\")"
2017-01-14T22:44:16Z Bike: wait, so it's a string.
2017-01-14T22:44:29Z Marak: (eval "(format t \"Hello tare\")(format t \"Hello bear\")"), don't work either
2017-01-14T22:44:38Z Marak: yes, its code as string coming in from STDIN
2017-01-14T22:44:42Z Bike: it ought to "work" in the sense that it returns that string without writing anything
2017-01-14T22:44:50Z Bike: okay, so you do need to read it first then.
2017-01-14T22:44:57Z pjb: Marak: what is *args*?
2017-01-14T22:44:58Z Bike: as d4ryus said, READ only reads one object
2017-01-14T22:45:19Z Marak: pjb: *args* is command line arguments scope on my system for clisp
2017-01-14T22:45:23Z Bike: so (read-from-string "(format ...) (format ...)") will just be the first (format ...)
2017-01-14T22:45:30Z pjb: Marak: Yes, but what type is it?
2017-01-14T22:45:38Z Marak: ahh! that makes sense. pjb how do i check?
2017-01-14T22:45:45Z pjb: *args*
2017-01-14T22:45:50Z Bike: from the sounds of it it's a list of strings
2017-01-14T22:45:51Z pjb: just print it and look.
2017-01-14T22:45:53Z circ-user-QcIM5 joined #lisp
2017-01-14T22:46:00Z pjb: … as Bike says.
2017-01-14T22:46:14Z Bike: spoiler!
2017-01-14T22:46:23Z pjb: this is because it's a list of strings that you don't need (format nil "~A" …)
2017-01-14T22:46:32Z pjb: this is because it's a list of strings that you need read-from-string.
2017-01-14T22:46:54Z pjb: Now if you want to test for superfluous text after the first expression, you should test the second result of read-from-string.
2017-01-14T22:46:58Z pjb: clhs read-from-string
2017-01-14T22:46:58Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_fro.htm
2017-01-14T22:47:27Z pjb: and there's also this point that being a list of command line arguments, the argument that follows -c is not necessarily the second one.
2017-01-14T22:47:29Z Marak: $ clisp ./examples/services/echo/test.clisp -c "(format t \"Hello tare\")(format t \"Hello bear\")"  ("-c" "(format t \"Hello tare\")(format t \"Hello bear\")")
2017-01-14T22:47:49Z Marak: pjb: it is in my case, i have control of the parent process
2017-01-14T22:47:56Z pjb: Nonetheless.
2017-01-14T22:48:28Z Marak: i need to be able to pass in a big string of clisp code into a clisp script from the command line and eval it. that is the goal here
2017-01-14T22:48:42Z Marak: so -c value could contain a lot of statements, unknown amount
2017-01-14T22:49:12Z pjb: (loop with args := *args* while args do (cond ((string= "-c" (first args)) (pop args) (if args (process (pop args)) (error "Missing expression after -c"))) (t (error "Unknown option ~A" (first args)))))
2017-01-14T22:49:19Z Bike: sounds like you need to loop then.
2017-01-14T22:49:39Z pjb: Marak: this is up to you: you may specify that -c is followed by a single sexp or by multiple sexps.
2017-01-14T22:49:40Z Marak: pjb: i will try that...i barely understand it
2017-01-14T22:49:46Z pjb: Marak: you can always use progn.
2017-01-14T22:49:48Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-14T22:49:57Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-14T22:50:32Z Marak: *** - EVAL: undefined function PROCESS
2017-01-14T22:50:53Z pjb: Yes now you implement the function process that will process your expression arguments. (pop args)
2017-01-14T22:54:13Z Marak: pjb: i dont think that works. its ending up trying to run this: (eval "(format t \"Hello tare\")(format t \"Hello bear\")"), which still has no output
2017-01-14T22:54:32Z pjb: Now, in process you have to read the sexps that are in the string argument.
2017-01-14T22:54:33Z d4ryus: Marak: are u looking for something like this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/336594 (iam new to lisp too, so that code might be rly bad :/ )
2017-01-14T22:54:58Z pjb: Marak: for this check the 2nd result of read-from-string (and consider the :start argument)
2017-01-14T22:55:04Z circ-user-QcIM5: In SBCL, is it possible to get the memory address of a lisp object (fixnums, strings, arrays, etc.)? I'm hoping to poke around using gdb
2017-01-14T22:55:30Z circ-user-QcIM5: I think I'm looking for a SAP, but not sure
2017-01-14T22:56:19Z d4ryus: Marak: to evaluate ur *args* string you could do (mapcar #'eval (read-objects-from-string *args*))
2017-01-14T22:56:48Z Marak: d4ryus: yeah?
2017-01-14T22:57:16Z pjb: That said if you read everything before evaluating everything, then it will fail if you load something or define packages.
2017-01-14T22:57:56Z pjb: To be able to do: foo -c '(load "thingy-package.lisp") (thingy-package:foo)' # you will need to implement a REPL.
2017-01-14T22:58:20Z Marak: clisp doesn't have a command line argument to pass in code as string?
2017-01-14T22:58:27Z pjb: Of course it has.
2017-01-14T22:58:33Z pjb: man clisp
2017-01-14T22:59:03Z Marak: i checked that 3times before, couldn't find the flag/
2017-01-14T22:59:17Z Marak:  -x expressions ?
2017-01-14T22:59:21Z pjb: yes.
2017-01-14T22:59:35Z Marak: okay, let me go hide for a bit and try this. thank you all for the noob help, its much appreciated
2017-01-14T23:00:12Z pjb:  clisp -q -norc -x '(+ 1 2)  (* 3 4)'
2017-01-14T23:00:14Z Marak: to give some context, i'm trying to add common lisp as a language supported by the Functions as a Service platform. its all open-source.
2017-01-14T23:00:28Z Marak: https://github.com/stackvana/microcule is the core app server, https://hook.io is the platform
2017-01-14T23:00:40Z Marak: we already support 13+ languages
2017-01-14T23:01:15Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T23:01:49Z circ-user-QcIM5: Marak: clisp the only implementation you're considering?
2017-01-14T23:02:09Z phoe: Marak: exactly, I wouldn't advise CLISP in that case. SBCL would do better here, IMO.
2017-01-14T23:02:21Z pjb: No, clisp is the best choice for CLI interactive stuff.
2017-01-14T23:02:29Z Marak: circ-user-QcIM5: it was the first lisp i tried. i'm very open to suggestion, as i'm not writing any production lisp at the time
2017-01-14T23:02:47Z Marak: this system support streaming HTTP, would be nice to have lisp used for stream transformations...
2017-01-14T23:02:50Z pjb: sbcl would have to compile stuff, is slower to load, etc.
2017-01-14T23:02:50Z Marak: thats how the Node.js version works
2017-01-14T23:03:04Z Marak: this need to be interrupted in real-time, not compiled
2017-01-14T23:03:15Z bpf_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-14T23:03:25Z Marak: we are executing code in real-time in response to incoming HTTP requests. can do fairly low latency responses.
2017-01-14T23:03:29Z Marak: kinda like a CGI
2017-01-14T23:04:28Z circ-user-QcIM5: Marak: most of the lisps include a compiler and the interpreter works by using that
2017-01-14T23:04:51Z pjb: But not clisp, which is why it will be faster.
2017-01-14T23:04:54Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-14T23:05:23Z circ-user-QcIM5: Yeah clisp is probably a good first choice
2017-01-14T23:05:32Z Marak: the intention is that developers wouldn't only be uploading a single function, or small block of code per service. i think clisp is the way to go. i'm going to experiment more and see what i can do
2017-01-14T23:06:05Z Marak: if i can get lisp working for hook.io, i'll definitely let you all know. would in theory be a quick and easy way to turn lisp code into a webhook on a unique url
2017-01-14T23:06:20Z Marak: without needing to start a server
2017-01-14T23:14:28Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-14T23:15:18Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T23:15:21Z phoe: Marak: how much code do you expect to be stored on a single webhook? what are your memory and time execution limits?
2017-01-14T23:15:33Z phoe: s/time execution/execution time/
2017-01-14T23:15:43Z Orion3k joined #lisp
2017-01-14T23:19:22Z random-nick quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T23:21:45Z Marak: phoe: the only limitation we have for size now, is the operating systems limit for size of command line arguments. default timeout value for all services is 10 seconds. paid customers are able to increase this value at will.
2017-01-14T23:22:07Z Marak: phoe: most people behave themselves. we also have a bit of rate-limiting code for totals and concurrency
2017-01-14T23:22:56Z Marak: we run untrusted user code in an elastic worker pool in a fairly isolated env
2017-01-14T23:25:15Z phoe: Marak: for that limit, you could store the body of Lisp code in a file and feed it to the Lisp executable.
2017-01-14T23:25:32Z Marak: yeah, the worker env doesn't allow users to write to disk
2017-01-14T23:25:54Z Marak: so we can't write the file anywhere. need to use -x flag, or maybe a bash redirect
2017-01-14T23:26:09Z Marak: or just pass in code as command line argument and parse in script, probably -x flag is right
2017-01-14T23:27:16Z Marak: i already have the source code in a buffer in memory before it ever hits lisp. i can easily check the size before save for the users. not really concerned about total script size really
2017-01-14T23:27:20Z Marak: hasn't come up  yet as an issue
2017-01-14T23:39:16Z hhdave_ joined #lisp
2017-01-14T23:41:46Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-14T23:41:46Z hhdave_ is now known as hhdave
2017-01-14T23:43:36Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-14T23:43:52Z drmeister: Hey lispers - I just ran the first physics simulation using the C++ Bullet engine from Clasp Common Lisp.
2017-01-14T23:44:04Z drmeister: Did someone here point me at that library several months ago?
2017-01-14T23:44:11Z phoe: drmeister: <3
2017-01-14T23:44:20Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-14T23:45:08Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-14T23:45:40Z phoe: And it's night time for me. See you guys!
2017-01-14T23:51:52Z pseudonymous joined #lisp
2017-01-14T23:53:08Z megalography joined #lisp
2017-01-14T23:55:44Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-14T23:55:53Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-15T00:02:58Z pseudonymous: Can someone enlighten me ? (http://paste.ubuntu.com/23801345/) I seem to have successfully switched to another package, but defun forms don't seem to be affected
2017-01-15T00:03:57Z pjb: pseudonymous: what is the purpose of packages?
2017-01-15T00:04:39Z pseudonymous: namespacing/isolation
2017-01-15T00:04:56Z pjb: Yes. How does they do it, in lisp?
2017-01-15T00:05:46Z pjb: If you want, what is used to name things in lisp?
2017-01-15T00:05:51Z pseudonymous: Actually ? Not a clue. I do know that I can intern symbols and specify a package, but not really why this is so important.
2017-01-15T00:06:27Z pjb: Right.  The current package, bound to *package* is used as default package by the INTERN function.  This is the only function that uses it.
2017-01-15T00:06:47Z pjb: This INTERN function is called by READ, to read symbols that are not qualified.
2017-01-15T00:07:09Z pjb: Now, this is the important thing to understand.  *PACKAGE* is only used by INTERN, which is only used by READ.
2017-01-15T00:07:20Z pjb: So now the question, is WHEN is *PACKAGE* used?
2017-01-15T00:08:06Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-15T00:08:38Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-15T00:09:14Z pjb: The idea, is to make it easy to answer those questions.  Where did I fail?
2017-01-15T00:09:26Z pseudonymous: I'm guessing we'll be talking about the exact order of things, read, macro-expansion, eval ?
2017-01-15T00:09:32Z pjb: Yes.
2017-01-15T00:09:48Z pjb: *PACKAGE* is used WHEN we READ an expression.
2017-01-15T00:10:02Z pseudonymous: I have a vague grasp of the theory, though admittedly so vague that more "complex" scenarios like these, I fail to apply it.
2017-01-15T00:10:06Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-15T00:10:15Z pjb: pseudonymous: now you have to consider when things are read.
2017-01-15T00:10:28Z pjb: For example, when is the macro WITH-PKG2 read?
2017-01-15T00:10:29Z pseudonymous: I see. so 'in-package' accomplishes nothing in a macro because the reader has already done its job?
2017-01-15T00:10:49Z pjb: For the body form that is passed in parameter to the macro, yes.
2017-01-15T00:11:10Z pjb: But if this body calls read explicitely (to read some user data), then the in-package form will be effective for that data, that is read at run-time.
2017-01-15T00:11:34Z pjb: On the other hand, for this case, it would be preferable to use (LET ((*package* (run-time-package))) … (read) …)
2017-01-15T00:11:36Z pseudonymous: Why do I always get into the weeds with macros ;__;
2017-01-15T00:11:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-15T00:11:46Z pjb: (actually, *package* is also used by PRINT to decide how to print the symbols (qualified or not)).
2017-01-15T00:12:08Z pjb: pseudonymous:  For more information about package, reading and evaluation, you want to read: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/Ambitious.html
2017-01-15T00:13:18Z pseudonymous: But isn't (read), (eval), (compile) and the like frowned upon? As the example showed, I was trying to locally override the definition of defun (failed due to a package lock). I'm sure I could've circumvented that too but I'm guessing anyone sane would tell me that I was doing something project-manhattan-level horrible
2017-01-15T00:14:04Z pjb: Yes, in general you don't need to patch the host language or libraries, just define your own package with your own version of things.
2017-01-15T00:14:40Z pjb: (defpackage "PSEUDONYMOUS-LISP" (:nicknames "P-LISP") (:use "CL") (:shadow "DEFUN") (:export "DEFUN" "FIRST" "CAR" …))
2017-01-15T00:15:02Z pjb: (in-package "PSEUDONYMOUS-LISP") (defmacro defun (…) `(…))
2017-01-15T00:15:24Z kamog quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-15T00:15:24Z pjb: Then in your programs, you (:use "PSEUDONYMOUS-LISP") instead of (:use "COMMON-LISP").
2017-01-15T00:15:53Z pseudonymous: pjb: here's the winner question - would *you* ever consider something so drastic as this ? Would you even ever bother to write something like (with-package ...) or do you consider the whole enterprise ill advised ?
2017-01-15T00:16:07Z pjb: Of course. See for example cl-stepper.
2017-01-15T00:16:56Z pjb: https://github.com/informatimago/lisp/tree/master/common-lisp/lisp
2017-01-15T00:17:19Z pjb: I define all the special operators and a few macros in the CL-STEPPER package.
2017-01-15T00:17:31Z pjb: To use it you (:use "CL-STEPPER") instead of (:use "STEPPER").
2017-01-15T00:18:25Z pjb: with-package is not that useful, since as I indicated, (let ((*package* (get-run-time-package))) (read)) is what it would do, it's as simple to just write the let form.
2017-01-15T00:19:42Z pseudonymous: pbj: and generally, the method you advise would be less likely to have bad surprised. Sure, I could override defun and defvar, but what other functions might be similarly affected ? (read) solves all.
2017-01-15T00:20:22Z pjb: Depends on what you want to do. Why are you overriding defun?
2017-01-15T00:20:29Z pjb: Another example is ibcl.
2017-01-15T00:20:41Z pjb: http://informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/ibcl/
2017-01-15T00:22:23Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-15T00:24:32Z bigos quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-15T00:26:37Z pjb: pseudonymous: often, when you override defun, you need to also override lambda defmacro defgeneric defmethod define-compiler-macro flet labels macrolet and possibly also macros such as define-condition that take body forms that go into lambdas.
2017-01-15T00:26:45Z pseudonymous: pbj: I'll mull these things over. And I'll have to read this "ambitious eval" link to hopefully spare myself more days like this one. But this has been informative :)
2017-01-15T00:27:43Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-15T00:28:16Z dpg quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T00:32:15Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T00:32:44Z prole quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T00:34:10Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-15T00:34:34Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-15T00:40:59Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-15T00:42:54Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-15T00:47:37Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-15T01:07:16Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T01:08:32Z Marak: d4ryus: read-objects-from-string method might be working!
2017-01-15T01:08:37Z Marak: :-)
2017-01-15T01:17:27Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-15T01:18:38Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-15T01:20:39Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-15T01:23:17Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T01:26:20Z circ-user-QcIM5: In lisp I tried this (make-array nil :initial-contents '(1 2 3)) and it gives me a 0 dimension array, but with elements in it #0A(1 2 3)  which seems a bit odd - does that make sense?
2017-01-15T01:27:27Z Bike: i think it gave you a 0 dimensional array with one element, which is a list.
2017-01-15T01:27:49Z Bike: i'm... not sure if that works.
2017-01-15T01:29:51Z circ-user-QcIM5: Can't seem to access elements afterwards though with aref
2017-01-15T01:30:32Z pseudonymous quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-15T01:31:08Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-15T01:32:14Z Bike: (aref #0A(1 2 3)) => (1 2 3)
2017-01-15T01:32:16Z axion: There is 1 element. You supply no subscripts to aref to access it
2017-01-15T01:32:30Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T01:32:31Z jzp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T01:32:54Z axion: I can't even think of any useful applications for that though
2017-01-15T01:33:22Z Bike: sowing confusion
2017-01-15T01:36:16Z dddddd quit (Quit: Hasta otra..)
2017-01-15T01:43:06Z Marak: hey all. was wondering if it's possible to nest hash tables?
2017-01-15T01:44:15Z Bike: hash tables can be used as values in a hash table, if that's what you mean.
2017-01-15T01:44:28Z pjb: #0Ax is equivalent to the scalar x.  We could indeed make the type system such as any lisp object is an array.  But instead, CL expects an explicit wrapping in an array so #0Ax and x are distinct.
2017-01-15T01:45:11Z pjb: Now it's useful because you can still perform scalar operations on arrays (vectors, matrices, tensors, etc), using the same array x array algorithm.
2017-01-15T01:45:35Z Marak: yes they can Bike! i got it. my issue was trying to print the hash itself. i'm slowly lisping. thank you
2017-01-15T01:45:40Z Marak: its working now
2017-01-15T01:45:45Z pjb: Marak: in lisp, all the values are first class objects, so you can nest everything in everything.
2017-01-15T01:45:59Z Marak: lisp is nice. i like this so far
2017-01-15T01:46:05Z Marak: just a lot of new keywords to learn
2017-01-15T01:47:16Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-15T01:49:37Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-15T01:49:38Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-15T01:50:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-15T02:03:34Z john_g_ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T02:05:25Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-15T02:09:04Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T02:10:12Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-15T02:13:52Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-15T02:15:08Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T02:18:11Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-15T02:27:16Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-15T02:31:50Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-15T02:33:35Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T02:36:00Z sword quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T02:39:21Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-15T02:40:52Z marusich joined #lisp
2017-01-15T02:43:42Z sword` joined #lisp
2017-01-15T02:52:21Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2017-01-15T02:55:29Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-15T03:01:06Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-15T03:03:01Z papachan quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-15T03:04:00Z eschatologist_ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T03:11:20Z eschatologist_ quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.3+deb2 - http://znc.in)
2017-01-15T03:17:59Z travv0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T03:29:01Z jason_m` joined #lisp
2017-01-15T03:30:31Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T03:30:54Z unbalanced quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-15T03:30:55Z unbalancedparen joined #lisp
2017-01-15T03:33:03Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-15T03:34:41Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-15T03:36:22Z smokeink joined #lisp
2017-01-15T03:40:01Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-15T03:44:00Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-15T03:46:13Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-15T03:48:19Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-15T03:49:58Z Marak: What's the easiest / best way to make outgoing HTTP requests in Common Lisp? Drakma?
2017-01-15T03:53:43Z Bike: drakma's pretty easy yeah.
2017-01-15T03:58:01Z Marak: nice, just landed my first Lisp commit! https://github.com/Stackvana/microcule/commit/71a7d95bb21e70647ec9af954fd0ebc56724e308
2017-01-15T03:58:18Z Marak: going to try and see if i can get drakma working then deploy this to production....
2017-01-15T04:00:19Z Marak: instead of parsing the incoming JSON in LISP i kinda cheated and used javascript to metaprogram lisp hashes. not pretty, but working well.
2017-01-15T04:06:36Z marusich quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-15T04:10:13Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-15T04:16:07Z stardiviner quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-15T04:21:53Z circ-user-QcIM5 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-15T04:23:49Z Marak quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-15T04:40:52Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-15T04:45:04Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-15T04:53:27Z amokr joined #lisp
2017-01-15T04:58:33Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-15T04:59:58Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-15T05:02:25Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-15T05:05:32Z Guest__ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T05:07:05Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-15T05:24:20Z paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T05:25:30Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-15T05:30:20Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T05:30:54Z Guest__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-15T05:37:19Z zacts joined #lisp
2017-01-15T05:41:14Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-15T05:41:44Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-15T05:42:40Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T05:42:41Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T05:42:45Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-15T05:43:16Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-15T05:46:07Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T05:47:37Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-15T05:52:30Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T05:53:36Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-15T05:53:38Z Marak joined #lisp
2017-01-15T05:54:02Z Marak: can anyone make sense of this? *** - Error while trying to load definition for system drakma from pathname /Users/a/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/drakma-2.0.2/drakma.asd: SYSTEM::%EXPAND-FORM: (LOAD-SYSTEM TEST-OP) should be a lambda expression
2017-01-15T05:54:20Z Marak: is that a local environment issue, or a issue with the package?
2017-01-15T05:54:59Z Bike: what is (asdf:asdf-version)?
2017-01-15T05:56:05Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-15T05:56:45Z Bike: i mean, basically what it says is you have invalid syntax in a form, but it could be caused by the system inappropriately interpreting some sexp as being a form when it is not, and clisp has an old asdf i think so it could be related
2017-01-15T05:58:58Z Marak: i tried to run:  (asdf:asdf-version), but it says, there is no package with name "ASDF"
2017-01-15T05:59:07Z Marak: sorry, i didnt know if you were responding to me lol
2017-01-15T05:59:29Z Bike: i was
2017-01-15T05:59:34Z Bike: how are you loading drakma if not asdf
2017-01-15T05:59:44Z Marak: (load "~/quicklisp/setup.lisp") (ql:quickload :drakma)
2017-01-15T06:00:09Z Bike: do the asdf thing after loading quicklisp.
2017-01-15T06:00:48Z Marak: (load "~/quicklisp/setup.lisp") (asdf:asdf-version)
2017-01-15T06:00:50Z Marak: no output
2017-01-15T06:01:09Z Bike: what? what's the return value?
2017-01-15T06:01:35Z Bike: are you just passing this to the command line?
2017-01-15T06:01:49Z Marak: sorry
2017-01-15T06:02:07Z Marak: "2.26"
2017-01-15T06:02:38Z Marak: i forgot i had to print the value to see it, i'm not a smart man
2017-01-15T06:02:53Z Bike: usually we use the repl and we don't have to print, so it works out
2017-01-15T06:03:18Z Bike: anyway, that's pretty old, so i'm guessing there's a version incompatibility. but that's just a guess.
2017-01-15T06:03:41Z Marak: i need to update what?
2017-01-15T06:03:50Z Marak: quicklisp? asdf?
2017-01-15T06:04:05Z Bike: asdf. current is 3.1.5.
2017-01-15T06:04:14Z Bike: i think you can just download an asdf.lisp and load it.
2017-01-15T06:04:33Z Marak: on it, thank you again
2017-01-15T06:04:34Z Marak: :-)
2017-01-15T06:05:10Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-15T06:05:17Z ChrisOei quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-15T06:05:19Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-15T06:08:51Z dpg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T06:08:58Z teggi joined #lisp
2017-01-15T06:12:05Z Marak: *** - Error while trying to load definition for system bordeaux-threads from pathname /Users/a/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/bordeaux-threads-v0.8.5/bordeaux-threads.asd:       EVAL: undefined function VERSION<=
2017-01-15T06:12:30Z Bike: with the new asdf?
2017-01-15T06:12:37Z Marak: i'm dumb again
2017-01-15T06:12:40Z Marak: gotta load asdf first
2017-01-15T06:12:49Z Marak: i think its working...
2017-01-15T06:15:19Z Marak: looks like i need to recompile clisp with ffi support...
2017-01-15T06:15:28Z Marak: *** - CFFI requires CLISP compiled with dynamic FFI support.
2017-01-15T06:15:58Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-15T06:16:54Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-15T06:19:03Z Bike: huh, i wonder what needs cffi.
2017-01-15T06:19:13Z Marak: right
2017-01-15T06:22:46Z Marak: [package cffi-sys]
2017-01-15T06:23:16Z Marak: is there a lighter weight HTTP client then drakma? is it normal that making HTTP requests requires FFI?
2017-01-15T06:25:09Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-15T06:26:29Z shka_ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T06:30:41Z Bike: apparently it uses it for ssl. drakma was originally written for lispworks, which doesn't need an external ssl system.
2017-01-15T06:30:51Z Bike: having ffi is pretty usual for lisps though.
2017-01-15T06:32:01Z Bike: you could also (pushnew :drakma-no-ssl *features*) before loading drakma, i think that will stop it from loading ssl. i mean, if you don't need ssl.
2017-01-15T06:33:47Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-15T06:34:37Z n3k0_t joined #lisp
2017-01-15T06:35:35Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T06:38:31Z Marak: no, we need ssl
2017-01-15T06:39:13Z Bike: the other http library i checked uses cl+ssl as well. i think it's the only game in town as far as portable lisp ssl goes. in which case you do need ffi
2017-01-15T06:40:39Z Marak: lisp.org is down
2017-01-15T06:41:40Z Bike: i don't know what lisp.org is.
2017-01-15T06:42:20Z Marak: me neither, the drakma docs had examples on trying to request it lol
2017-01-15T06:42:33Z Marak: (ql:quickload :drakma) (drakma:http-request "http://google.com/")
2017-01-15T06:42:37Z Marak: *** - UNIX error 60 (ETIMEDOUT): Connection timed out
2017-01-15T06:43:13Z Bike: does google even have an http site any more?
2017-01-15T06:43:30Z Marak: it should at least 301
2017-01-15T06:44:39Z Marak: i might have to give up on drakma for the day, its getting late. most likely need to rebuild clisp on mac os with ffi. googling seems to indicate build from source
2017-01-15T06:44:56Z Bike: it's probably some flag yeah.
2017-01-15T06:45:11Z siery joined #lisp
2017-01-15T06:48:17Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-15T06:48:46Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-15T06:51:29Z siery: Hello! I'm new to lisp so I did start with installing clisp. Then I install quicklisp fallowing the guide at official website. It seem to load correctly when I type (load "~/quicklisp/setup.lisp"). I can see ql functions in clisp interpreter..
2017-01-15T06:53:53Z siery: But then when I'm looking for any package I'm getting an error. For Example: [2]> (ql:quickload "clx")
2017-01-15T06:53:54Z siery: ** - Continuable Error
2017-01-15T06:53:56Z siery: System "clx" not found
2017-01-15T06:53:58Z siery: If you continue (by typing 'continue'): Try again
2017-01-15T06:54:00Z siery: The following restarts are also available:
2017-01-15T06:54:02Z siery: ABORT          :R1      Give up on "clx"
2017-01-15T06:54:04Z siery: ABORT          :R2      Abort main loop
2017-01-15T06:54:06Z siery: Break 1 [3]> :r1
2017-01-15T06:54:08Z siery: ("clx")yesyY
2017-01-15T06:54:08Z Bike: don't paste the whole thing into irc, please.
2017-01-15T06:54:44Z Bike: regardless, that's pretty strange.
2017-01-15T06:54:46Z beach: siery: If you want to ask for help here, then you are probably better off using an implementation that most people here use.
2017-01-15T06:54:46Z Marak: siery: you have to download and install clx before you can load it?
2017-01-15T06:54:53Z siery: sorry, I'm done now :), and sorry for aditional signs (yesyY) ^^
2017-01-15T06:54:59Z Bike: quickload is supposed to download and install things, marak.
2017-01-15T06:55:15Z beach: siery: Most people here would probably recommend SBCL.
2017-01-15T06:55:55Z Bike: I don't know what would be causing that problem. (ql:quickload "clx") works fine for me. Maybe something is wrong with the dist information? Not sure.
2017-01-15T06:55:58Z siery: yes beach, I wanna start with somethink simple for game scripting
2017-01-15T06:57:07Z siery: @Mark: so whats the point of quickload if I need to predownload a package? Is that so hard to put files in to a directory?
2017-01-15T06:57:37Z Bike: no, quickload is supposed to take care of that for you.
2017-01-15T06:58:29Z Bike: Maybe paste a backtrace?
2017-01-15T07:00:22Z Marak: i've got a good question. what would be the expected time it takes to fire up clisp or sblc and load drakma. 10ms? 100ms? 1s? 5?
2017-01-15T07:02:55Z Bike: one second to load drakma and quit in sbcl on my system.
2017-01-15T07:03:13Z Bike: it might be faster in clisp, which is supposed to have a shorter startup time, but i've never used clisp.
2017-01-15T07:04:28Z amokr quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-15T07:11:14Z smokeink joined #lisp
2017-01-15T07:25:44Z siery quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2017-01-15T07:29:45Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-15T07:35:29Z amokr joined #lisp
2017-01-15T07:39:58Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-15T07:42:34Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-15T07:44:36Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-15T07:50:45Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T07:54:21Z Marak: Bike: do you think its possible to get is sub 100ms with optimizations? the system i'm trying to integrate lisp is uses an approach similar to CGI. we spawn the user's code in a new process in response to each incoming http request...
2017-01-15T07:54:50Z Marak: i'm able to sub 100ms responses for most interrupted languages so far
2017-01-15T07:54:53Z Bike: yeah, you can dump an image with drakma already loaded.
2017-01-15T07:55:55Z Marak: this might be a bit above my lisp knowledge. i wonder if any lispers would be interested in getting first-class support for lisp on https://hook.io
2017-01-15T07:55:58Z Marak: it's all open-source
2017-01-15T07:57:29Z Bike: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Saving-a-Core-Image it's not that hard to understand, really
2017-01-15T07:57:46Z Bike: well, all the arguments are, but you don't need most of them
2017-01-15T07:58:12Z beach: Marak: What is an "interrupted language"?
2017-01-15T07:58:39Z Marak: interpreted language, sorry its 3am here
2017-01-15T07:58:43Z Marak: :-D
2017-01-15T07:58:52Z beach: Marak: Whether it is an interpreter or a compiler is a property of the implementation and not the language.  Most Common Lisp implementation compile to native code.
2017-01-15T07:59:04Z Marak: so you recommend, SBCL, i will install that next
2017-01-15T07:59:25Z Marak: it's hard for us to support compiled languages, having a compile step isn't supported in our system yet
2017-01-15T07:59:30Z Marak: but we plan to add it
2017-01-15T07:59:36Z beach: Marak: You are confused.
2017-01-15T07:59:49Z beach: Marak: You seem to think that "compilation" implies generating an executable file.
2017-01-15T07:59:49Z Marak: usually
2017-01-15T07:59:57Z Bike: sbcl compiles everything, lol.
2017-01-15T08:00:06Z Bike: the interpreter kind of sucks, though it's better lately
2017-01-15T08:00:07Z beach: Marak: Common Lisp implementation compiles to native code "incrementally".
2017-01-15T08:00:12Z Marak: yeah?
2017-01-15T08:00:47Z beach: Marak: You are confusing "interactivity" with "interpretation".  They are two orthogonal concepts.
2017-01-15T08:01:31Z Marak: its pretty simple in my case. either i can run the language binary with the user code as stdin and pipe the result to the http response, or i have to compile an executable which means no-go
2017-01-15T08:01:42Z beach: Marak: Common Lisp semantics is defined in terms of "interactions" that modify some global state.  But in most modern Common Lisp systems, each interaction is compiled to native code and then executed.
2017-01-15T08:02:01Z Bike: well, you can do the former in sbcl, which compiles everything, so... words are hard.
2017-01-15T08:02:15Z beach: Marak: I don't think you are listening.
2017-01-15T08:02:18Z Bike: however, what i suggested doesn't involve a separate compile-to-file step for each execution.
2017-01-15T08:02:21Z Marak: no, i'm reading
2017-01-15T08:02:29Z beach: Marak: Compilation does not require the creation of an executable file.
2017-01-15T08:02:32Z Bike: you'd just use a custom sbcl executable for your whatever.
2017-01-15T08:02:35Z Marak: okay
2017-01-15T08:02:39Z Bike: takes the same command line arguments and such. easy
2017-01-15T08:02:45Z Marak: not sure the semantics matter here
2017-01-15T08:04:06Z beach: Marak: The only difference you will see between a Common Lisp implementation that interprets and one that compiles is that the latter executes the code faster.
2017-01-15T08:04:09Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-15T08:04:20Z Marak: makes sense
2017-01-15T08:05:25Z beach: Marak: A lot of people choose a batch language such as C or C++ because they think that Common Lisp is interpreted, which means slow.  But they are wrong.  Most modern Common Lisp implementation compile to native code, so their decision is based on ignorance.
2017-01-15T08:05:40Z beach: ... with huge losses in development time as a result.
2017-01-15T08:05:41Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-15T08:05:44Z Marak: not sure why you are getting defensive on this
2017-01-15T08:05:55Z Marak: i'm looking to integrate lisp into a system
2017-01-15T08:07:15Z isBEKaml joined #lisp
2017-01-15T08:07:51Z d4ryus1 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T08:09:52Z siery joined #lisp
2017-01-15T08:10:11Z Marak: i'm hoping to get this working so that developers can login to the website and create a unique url that is linked to a single lisp script. the inputs of the lisp script will be http request stream, output will be http response stream
2017-01-15T08:10:49Z Marak: it sounds like it would be complicated, but i actually this working for 13 other languages already. the core spawning functionality is located at this repo: https://github.com/stackvana/microcule
2017-01-15T08:10:52Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-15T08:11:28Z jason_m` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-15T08:12:29Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-15T08:13:28Z siery: Hey! Is that posible to get some interactivity in to sbcl interpreter, like type-completion or history like in other modern interpreters?
2017-01-15T08:13:50Z Bike: most (many, at least) people use SLIME in emacs for that
2017-01-15T08:14:51Z siery: Is that also working for the interpreter?
2017-01-15T08:15:03Z Bike: "the interpreter"?
2017-01-15T08:17:42Z siery: Ye, sbcl interpreter. clisp already have that build in so thats why I think I will go with it for now for my usage.
2017-01-15T08:17:57Z Bike: if you mean the command line, no.
2017-01-15T08:18:11Z Bike: there is a thing to use readline. "linedit" i think.
2017-01-15T08:18:43Z Bike: https://github.com/nikodemus/linedit
2017-01-15T08:28:24Z beach: *sigh*
2017-01-15T08:29:46Z beach: siery: It is strongly recommended that you use SLIME with Emacs for interactive development.
2017-01-15T08:31:41Z beach will not repeat "IT IS NOT AN INTERPRETER DAMMIT" or anything like that.
2017-01-15T08:32:20Z easye attempts to sooth Beach.
2017-01-15T08:32:29Z beach: easye: Thanks! :)
2017-01-15T08:32:39Z pseudonymous joined #lisp
2017-01-15T08:34:01Z easye: s/sooth/soothe/
2017-01-15T08:34:54Z jackdaniel: is there an easy way to run two repls on the same image (separate threads) with slime?
2017-01-15T08:35:12Z easye: Yeah.  Just M-x rename-buffer-uniquely
2017-01-15T08:35:17Z easye: and then M-x slime
2017-01-15T08:35:25Z easye: Scratch that.
2017-01-15T08:35:29Z jackdaniel scratches
2017-01-15T08:35:36Z easye: Two repls?  Ah that 's a bit tricky.
2017-01-15T08:35:37Z easye: sorry.
2017-01-15T08:36:05Z isBEKaml quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-15T08:36:16Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-15T08:37:15Z easye: Theoretically, since each SLIME REPL request gets its own thread (at least under ABCL), this should be possible, but you'd probably be fighting against the rest of the SLIME architecture until you got it working.
2017-01-15T08:37:46Z Bike: hey hey hey, check out the manual
2017-01-15T08:37:52Z Bike: "The slime-mrepl package adds support for multiple listener buffers. The command M-x slime-open-listener creates a new buffer. In a multi-threaded Lisp, each listener is associated with a separate thread. "
2017-01-15T08:37:53Z easye: Or do that.
2017-01-15T08:38:08Z pseudonymous: I'm thinking of using lisp-unit more which raises a question (well, two, actually). 1) Can I add a transitive dependency (i.e. something packages using my package won't pull in) for lisp-unit? Also, can I in any way improve the setup in slime to run my tests via a keybind or something ?
2017-01-15T08:38:23Z jackdaniel: thanks!
2017-01-15T08:40:46Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-15T08:41:18Z jackdaniel:  hm, require slime-mrepl didn't create such command
2017-01-15T08:43:06Z Bike: looking at the file, it's slime-new-mrepl
2017-01-15T08:43:12Z Bike: it immediately failed here, so good luck
2017-01-15T08:43:24Z Marak quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-15T08:43:44Z siery: hmm.. and here comes quicklisp again.. where should I put the package to make quicklisp see it? I have the samme problem both in clisp and sbcl, it does not see any packages I have downloadet on my disc when i try to load them :/
2017-01-15T08:43:52Z jackdaniel: here too, it looks like it has bitrotten a little ;)
2017-01-15T08:44:12Z jackdaniel: siery: put them in ~/quicklisp/local-projects directory
2017-01-15T08:44:16Z jackdaniel: or symlinks to them
2017-01-15T08:44:25Z Bike: siery: so you got it to load clx from the internet normally?
2017-01-15T08:45:40Z pseudonymous left #lisp
2017-01-15T08:46:18Z siery: I did Bike
2017-01-15T08:46:33Z Bike: nice
2017-01-15T08:46:38Z Bike: well do what jackdaniel says
2017-01-15T08:46:46Z Bike: you may have to run (ql:register-local-projects) as well
2017-01-15T08:47:17Z isBEKaml joined #lisp
2017-01-15T08:47:23Z siery: it gives me NIL value ^^
2017-01-15T08:47:45Z Bike: register-local-projects does? i think that's normal
2017-01-15T08:47:46Z jackdaniel: siery: regarding clx, you will be better served with the one put in the quicklisp
2017-01-15T08:47:58Z siery: ow, ok ^^
2017-01-15T08:49:46Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-15T08:50:07Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-15T08:50:44Z jackdaniel: OK, managed to run it
2017-01-15T08:50:55Z jackdaniel: I had to remove cache from ~/.slime
2017-01-15T08:51:11Z jackdaniel: and C-k swank-mrepl.lisp manually
2017-01-15T08:51:23Z jackdaniel: C-c C-k °
2017-01-15T08:54:05Z siery: it works for me to when i type (ql:quickload :clx) instead of (ql:quickload "clx")...
2017-01-15T08:54:15Z siery: Thanks guys :)
2017-01-15T08:54:39Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-15T09:01:22Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T09:01:47Z _main_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-15T09:02:29Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T09:03:36Z _main_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-15T09:04:05Z __main__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T09:05:23Z __main__ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T09:06:50Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T09:10:10Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T09:10:41Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-15T09:10:47Z vegai_ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T09:12:42Z nrp3c quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-15T09:13:28Z hhdave quit (Quit: hhdave)
2017-01-15T09:13:54Z vegai_ is now known as vegai
2017-01-15T09:15:07Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-15T09:17:13Z bpf joined #lisp
2017-01-15T09:21:33Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-15T09:27:06Z isBEKaml2 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T09:28:50Z isBEKaml quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-15T09:29:01Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T09:32:43Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-15T09:33:03Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-15T09:34:46Z isBEKaml2 left #lisp
2017-01-15T09:34:57Z isBEKaml joined #lisp
2017-01-15T09:36:37Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-15T09:37:51Z john_g_ left #lisp
2017-01-15T09:40:50Z siery quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T09:47:37Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-15T09:51:46Z shifty joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:10:04Z knobo: hurrah for sharplispers
2017-01-15T10:10:17Z knobo: I did not know about that before today.
2017-01-15T10:12:50Z beaky: what is sharplispers
2017-01-15T10:13:04Z DeadTrickster: Illuminati
2017-01-15T10:13:09Z shka_ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:13:31Z beaky: ah
2017-01-15T10:13:51Z siery joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:13:54Z jackdaniel: beaky: https://github.com/sharplispers/
2017-01-15T10:13:59Z beaky: ah thanks
2017-01-15T10:14:05Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:14:54Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-15T10:15:34Z rjid quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-15T10:16:32Z alleyoop joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:17:13Z paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:18:15Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T10:20:49Z alleyoop quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-15T10:21:36Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:28:15Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T10:28:41Z paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:29:09Z DeadTrickster: hmm the forked log4cl
2017-01-15T10:30:31Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:34:12Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T10:34:24Z rjid left #lisp
2017-01-15T10:35:43Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:36:35Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T10:37:54Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:37:54Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2017-01-15T10:37:54Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:39:03Z loke quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-15T10:39:36Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T10:40:47Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:45:21Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-15T10:46:52Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:49:54Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:50:38Z macdavid313 quit (Quit: macdavid313)
2017-01-15T10:50:42Z mlvd joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:54:23Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:54:51Z araujo quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2017-01-15T10:55:20Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:55:20Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2017-01-15T10:55:20Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-15T10:56:28Z Posterdati: hi please I need help on rucksack
2017-01-15T10:57:27Z Posterdati: is it possible to define classes outside with-rucksack/with-transaction pair?
2017-01-15T10:57:51Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T10:58:28Z _paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T11:00:00Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-15T11:03:44Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-15T11:07:12Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-15T11:08:06Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2017-01-15T11:08:54Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-15T11:16:53Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-15T11:17:12Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-15T11:19:08Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-15T11:19:31Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-15T11:28:33Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-15T11:33:39Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-15T11:33:44Z siery quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2017-01-15T11:40:05Z isBEKaml quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-15T11:40:46Z teggi quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-15T11:42:36Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T11:43:18Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-15T11:45:53Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T11:46:04Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-15T11:51:40Z Posterdati quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-15T11:52:23Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-15T11:52:50Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T11:53:58Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-15T11:57:07Z Posterdati joined #lisp
2017-01-15T11:57:37Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-15T12:02:11Z isBEKaml joined #lisp
2017-01-15T12:03:50Z _paul0 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-15T12:14:50Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-15T12:17:30Z mlvd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T12:28:04Z xuxuru quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-15T12:29:50Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T12:30:38Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-15T12:32:10Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T12:36:11Z cmatei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-15T12:36:38Z cmatei joined #lisp
2017-01-15T12:41:35Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T12:43:08Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-15T12:43:09Z malice: hi all
2017-01-15T12:45:15Z malice: Is there some convention when you define a predicate for comparing the instances of a class?
2017-01-15T12:45:29Z malice: Should I use classname-equal-p or maybe classname= ?
2017-01-15T12:50:42Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-15T12:51:17Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-15T12:51:29Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-15T12:51:41Z pjb: depends on how you compare them.
2017-01-15T12:51:58Z pjb: If you compare them numerically, (where 1.0 = 1) then classname=.
2017-01-15T12:52:14Z pjb: If you compare them case insensitively, then classname-equalp
2017-01-15T12:52:23Z pjb: If you compare them case sensitively, then class-equal
2017-01-15T12:53:02Z pjb: Now if an instance could be equal, you could write a (classname-equal-p instance) predicate.
2017-01-15T12:53:17Z pjb: But I guess, it would be classname-equal only if it had the same left leg.
2017-01-15T13:00:17Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:01:51Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:02:16Z malice: because there's string=
2017-01-15T13:02:23Z malice: which doesn't really have any numerical comparison
2017-01-15T13:02:45Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:03:52Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:05:28Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:06:14Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-15T13:06:39Z guardianJ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:10:06Z guardianJ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T13:10:25Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:11:37Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:11:50Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T13:18:13Z phoe: malice: string= is fairly similar to equal, so that's what I'd go for
2017-01-15T13:19:00Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:20:38Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-15T13:25:35Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T13:29:58Z malice: okay
2017-01-15T13:30:12Z malice: Question regarding quicklisp: I have a project that I created after firing up REPL.
2017-01-15T13:30:22Z malice: QL doesn't see it. What command should I run so it checks for projects again?
2017-01-15T13:30:25Z malice: I can't remember its name
2017-01-15T13:30:48Z XachX: Register local projects
2017-01-15T13:30:54Z pjb: would quick-reset be something you'd remember?
2017-01-15T13:31:12Z malice: well, I don't know. Maybe
2017-01-15T13:31:41Z pjb: (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.tools.quicklisp) (use-package  :com.informatimago.tools.quicklisp) (quick-reset)
2017-01-15T13:31:43Z malice: If I may, I would suggest adding this to quicklisp FAQ. Tried to look it up there(since I must have asked it quite a few times...), but it wasn't there.
2017-01-15T13:31:52Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:32:01Z pjb: Also, (apropos "QUICK-") will be useful.
2017-01-15T13:32:12Z malice: pjb: I believe you're author, right?
2017-01-15T13:32:28Z pjb: Yes.
2017-01-15T13:32:53Z malice: May I ask, what is the reason for such name of package? It reminds me of Java and can't really see why would someone use it in CL.
2017-01-15T13:33:41Z pjb: There are three different packages named CLON…
2017-01-15T13:36:16Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:37:32Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T13:38:00Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:39:57Z malice: Oh, anmd by the way, register-local-projects didn't work for me...
2017-01-15T13:40:10Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T13:40:54Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-15T13:41:13Z pjb: malice: assuming you put your local project in ~/quicklisp/local-projects/
2017-01-15T13:41:27Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-15T13:41:49Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:41:57Z isBEKaml quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-15T13:42:38Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-15T13:43:25Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-15T13:43:46Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:44:25Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:47:12Z prole quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T13:47:41Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-15T13:50:01Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:51:08Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:52:34Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-15T13:53:35Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T13:53:39Z malice: pjb: No, it's in other path
2017-01-15T13:53:53Z malice: It's in the path defined by asdf's :tree configuration
2017-01-15T13:54:13Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-15T13:56:19Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-15T14:09:00Z jason_m joined #lisp
2017-01-15T14:14:46Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-15T14:15:31Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T14:19:28Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-15T14:22:33Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-15T14:22:53Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-15T14:27:03Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-15T14:28:30Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-15T14:29:14Z prole: Hie, I have this problem when updating SBCL (1.3.13) when slime recompile: "OPERATION instances must only be created through MAKE-OPERATION." when compiling swank-c-p-c (loading swank-loader.lisp)
2017-01-15T14:29:25Z prole: Am I the only one?
2017-01-15T14:29:51Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-15T14:37:51Z jackdaniel: prole: I suspect you use upstream asdf
2017-01-15T14:37:56Z jackdaniel: it's asdf problem, not sbcl's
2017-01-15T14:38:45Z jackdaniel: probably some of your asd systems use (make-instance 'asdf:something-op …)
2017-01-15T14:38:50Z TruePika quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T14:39:01Z jackdaniel: what has been forbidden in 3.2
2017-01-15T14:41:25Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-15T14:42:59Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-15T14:47:12Z borodust: are there any more or less advanced cache implementations for cl?
2017-01-15T14:47:42Z borodust: where key/values are evicted by access patterns, ttl refreshed on access and so on
2017-01-15T14:47:48Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-15T14:48:22Z borodust: cap max size/element count...
2017-01-15T14:57:59Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-15T14:58:30Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-15T15:01:22Z cl-irc joined #lisp
2017-01-15T15:02:07Z cl-irc is now known as blub-lisp
2017-01-15T15:02:28Z kos joined #lisp
2017-01-15T15:02:52Z kos is now known as Guest93251
2017-01-15T15:03:28Z Guest93251 is now known as kos`
2017-01-15T15:03:28Z Bourne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-15T15:03:43Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T15:04:16Z Bourne joined #lisp
2017-01-15T15:05:28Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-15T15:07:47Z kos` quit (Quit: bye)
2017-01-15T15:08:25Z blub-lisp quit (Quit: Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc)
2017-01-15T15:10:38Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-15T15:17:40Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-15T15:19:14Z drmeister: Hey folks - I put together a demo for exposing the C++ Bullet physics engine in Clasp-Common Lisp.
2017-01-15T15:19:15Z Bourne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-15T15:20:16Z drmeister: It exposes a bunch of Bullet C++ classes/methods/functions to CL and a hello-world.lisp source file demonstrates how to create the C++ objects and invoke methods to carry out a physics simulation.
2017-01-15T15:20:28Z drmeister: https://github.com/drmeister/demo-bullet/blob/master/README.md
2017-01-15T15:21:38Z drmeister: Running a 1,000,000 step simulation from C++ takes 2.4 seconds and from ClaspCL about 3.9 seconds.
2017-01-15T15:22:51Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-15T15:23:02Z drmeister: The claspCL number should improve by linking the C++ and CL code together with LLVM's LTO facility, and with new optimizations that are being developed for beach's Cleavir compiler that Clasp uses.
2017-01-15T15:24:06Z drmeister: Better link: https://github.com/drmeister/demo-bullet
2017-01-15T15:24:15Z drmeister: Comments welcome
2017-01-15T15:24:58Z drmeister: The basic point is we can use C++ libraries from ClaspCL without having to write a lot of C++ glue code.
2017-01-15T15:28:48Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T15:29:17Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-15T15:33:49Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-15T15:34:02Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-15T15:34:18Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-15T15:35:56Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-15T15:36:40Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-15T15:37:41Z Xach: nice
2017-01-15T15:38:48Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-15T15:39:58Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-15T15:41:07Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T15:41:53Z defgeneric joined #lisp
2017-01-15T15:43:54Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-15T15:50:15Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T15:57:58Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-15T15:57:58Z Trystam quit (Changing host)
2017-01-15T15:57:58Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-15T15:58:40Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T15:58:54Z Trystam is now known as Tristam
2017-01-15T15:58:59Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T16:00:32Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T16:08:51Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-15T16:09:06Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T16:14:37Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-15T16:16:32Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-15T16:17:54Z circ-user-QcIM5 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T16:20:38Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-15T16:23:14Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-15T16:23:58Z baNow joined #lisp
2017-01-15T16:24:54Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-15T16:27:04Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-15T16:28:44Z smokeink quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-15T16:30:04Z baNow quit (Quit: Bye)
2017-01-15T16:30:20Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-15T16:30:32Z baNow joined #lisp
2017-01-15T16:34:19Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T16:37:50Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-15T16:43:29Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-15T16:44:06Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T16:44:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-15T16:45:15Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T16:46:26Z Houl joined #lisp
2017-01-15T16:49:17Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-15T16:51:25Z fitzsim quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-15T16:55:43Z fitzsim joined #lisp
2017-01-15T17:00:40Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T17:04:02Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-15T17:04:34Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-15T17:12:52Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-15T17:16:43Z drmeister: When developing CFFI interfaces - how do people deal with functions that return references to objects?
2017-01-15T17:18:17Z jackdaniel: usually people ffi to C ABI, which doesn't support references (just pointer)
2017-01-15T17:18:26Z pjb: Depends. You may convert the C/C++ object into a lisp object, or you may just wrap the foreign pointer into a lisp object.
2017-01-15T17:18:45Z pjb: Oh, and if you mean C++ _references_, then no.
2017-01-15T17:19:30Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-15T17:19:36Z pjb: I thought that a C++ compiler would pass the pointer to the variable receiving the reference result so that the callee may store directly into the place?
2017-01-15T17:22:54Z pjb: otherwise, it would involve a copy, so the caller would have to allocate foreign storage, call the C++ constructor or copier or whatnot, and then you could wrap over that copy, I guess…
2017-01-15T17:27:02Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-15T17:28:30Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-15T17:29:03Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-15T17:30:10Z drmeister: Currently Clasp creates a wrapper for the pointer that's returned.  But that means consing.    If the compiler is sufficiently intelligent (and Cleavir may become that) then it could realize that the wrapper could have dynamic-extent and be allocated on the stack.
2017-01-15T17:30:51Z drmeister: beach, Bike:  Do you have any thoughts on that?
2017-01-15T17:31:19Z drmeister: Here's what I'm talking about:
2017-01-15T17:31:20Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/tSJlqZh8/
2017-01-15T17:31:37Z drmeister: Let me tidy that up a skooch.
2017-01-15T17:31:53Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Y5ItsKM1/
2017-01-15T17:32:37Z drmeister: The fourth line:   (bt:get-world-transform (bt:get-motion-state fall-rigid-body) transform)
2017-01-15T17:32:47Z circ-user-QcIM5: when I do (make-array 5 :element-type 'some-struct) does the resulting array end up with all the structs contiguous, or is it an array of references to structs elsewhere?
2017-01-15T17:33:00Z pjb: circ-user-QcIM5: nope.
2017-01-15T17:33:10Z pjb: clhs upgraded-array-element-type
2017-01-15T17:33:10Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_upgr_1.htm
2017-01-15T17:33:14Z pjb: it's an array of T
2017-01-15T17:33:40Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-15T17:34:00Z pjb: (defstruct point x y) (upgraded-array-element-type 'point) #| --> t |#
2017-01-15T17:34:55Z drmeister: The call to (bt:get-motion-state fall-rigid-body)    is calling this C++ method:   btMotionState* btRigidBody::getMotionState()
2017-01-15T17:35:01Z pjb: circ-user-QcIM5: the problem of storing the structures in the array would be that keeping a reference to a single array would keep it alive!
2017-01-15T17:35:15Z drmeister: So it's returning a pointer in this case, not a C++ reference.
2017-01-15T17:35:16Z pjb: to a single structure would keep the whole array alive!
2017-01-15T17:36:33Z drmeister: That's consing a type safe wrapper for btMotionState*
2017-01-15T17:36:50Z circ-user-QcIM5: pjb: would I have to use some implementation specific function like creating it off-heap if I needed contiguous?
2017-01-15T17:37:31Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T17:37:36Z pjb: You could indeed store things in a vector and define your own accessors.
2017-01-15T17:37:43Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-15T17:38:00Z pjb: structures themselves are basically vectors of T (cf. eg. (defstruct (name (:type vector)) …))
2017-01-15T17:40:46Z Bike: drmeister: dynamic extent should be in the relatively near future i think.
2017-01-15T17:42:27Z drmeister: Bike:  Cool - In an example like the above - (bt:get-world-transform (bt:get-motion-state fall-rigid-body) transform)
2017-01-15T17:42:53Z Bike: i'm not sure i totally understand this specific problem
2017-01-15T17:43:18Z drmeister: The (bt:get-motion-state fall-rigid-body) returns an object that would be written into a datum - would the datum be annotated some way to indicate that it could be allocated on the stack?
2017-01-15T17:43:33Z Bike: i see, i see
2017-01-15T17:43:56Z Bike: well, probably. but the basic issue there is that the compiler would have to know that get-world-transform doesn't put it anywhere
2017-01-15T17:44:03Z Bike: i guess if everything's in the same compilation unit it's fine
2017-01-15T17:44:29Z drmeister: Thinking on that...
2017-01-15T17:45:19Z Bike: if get-world-transform was just some arbitrary function it could do (setf *global* motion-state) or something
2017-01-15T17:46:02Z drmeister: Right - I think I might need to annotate the function to say that it doesn't do that.
2017-01-15T17:46:33Z Bike: yes, and the issue with that is, in normal semantics get-world-transform could be redefined later
2017-01-15T17:46:38Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-15T17:46:52Z drmeister: If it were a Common Lisp function - the idea is that the compiler would detect that the value isn't written anywhere - correct?
2017-01-15T17:47:06Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2017-01-15T17:47:22Z Bike: more or less.
2017-01-15T17:47:43Z Bike: the terminology in the spec would be that the argument is "not accessible".
2017-01-15T17:47:53Z drmeister: Ah, right - the function can be redefined.   So we can't do anything that would break if it were redefined.
2017-01-15T17:48:18Z drmeister: What about functions like (COS x) - what do they do?
2017-01-15T17:48:29Z Bike: i don't understand what you're asking.
2017-01-15T17:48:39Z Bike: cosine is dx-safe, obviously, it doesn't store anything
2017-01-15T17:48:45Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-15T17:48:59Z Bike: or return anything with an argument in it
2017-01-15T17:49:31Z Bike: well, assuming it doesn't return its argument sometimes, which it probably wouldn't
2017-01-15T17:49:56Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-15T17:50:12Z drmeister: Right - I'd like to be able to indicate that bt:get-world-transform is the like (COS x) - dx-safe and doesn't return anything with an argument in it and won't be redefined.
2017-01-15T17:50:18Z dpg quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-15T17:50:29Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T17:50:34Z drmeister: Then it's on me if it's not true.
2017-01-15T17:51:08Z Bike: i'm not sure about the last one. you can't do that for normal lisp functions, it's just assumed so if things are all in the same compilation unit
2017-01-15T17:51:09Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-15T17:51:24Z drmeister: I can guarantee it for C++ functions.
2017-01-15T17:51:53Z Bike: what happens if you recompile some bitcode and load it again?
2017-01-15T17:53:08Z drmeister: bt:get-world-transform will not change.   It takes a motion state and copies the world-transform into the second argument.
2017-01-15T17:53:38Z Bike: I don't see how that answers my question
2017-01-15T17:54:01Z drmeister: It would  be perfectly safe to allocate the motion state that is returned from bt:get-motion-state on the stack.
2017-01-15T17:55:20Z drmeister: If I recompile some bitcode and load it again and I make bt-get-world-transform save its argument in a global and then something else refers to that global later - it will crash.
2017-01-15T17:56:04Z Bike: like a crash crash? segfault? that's something to avoid, you know?
2017-01-15T17:57:15Z drmeister: Well, wait - I would also change the policy of the bt:get-world-transform function to indicate that it is no longer dynamic-extent safe.   And then I would recompile the Common Lisp code that calls it - then everything will be fine.
2017-01-15T17:57:34Z Bike: it's that second part that can be logistically fraught.
2017-01-15T17:57:40Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T17:57:46Z Bike: (but if you can do it, that works)
2017-01-15T17:58:13Z drmeister: Yes, a segfault if everything isn't consistent.   But this is interoperating with the C++/C world - it's always going to be dangerous.
2017-01-15T17:58:17Z pjb: circ-user-QcIM5: something like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336650
2017-01-15T17:58:55Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T17:59:46Z drmeister: What I would like is some way to indicate to the compiler that a function has the property of being dx-safe.    Is there such a thing in Common Lisp?
2017-01-15T18:00:18Z drmeister: I'm not sure dx-safe is the correct property.
2017-01-15T18:00:35Z Bike: no, but it'll probably be in cleavir, and it's in sbcl (which is where i got the name)
2017-01-15T18:00:45Z phoe: Noob question: what does dx-safe mean? Is it an acronym?
2017-01-15T18:00:51Z Bike: dynamic-extent-safe
2017-01-15T18:00:55Z phoe: Thanks.
2017-01-15T18:01:46Z Bike: it's kind of annoying to do because of recursive structures and stuff. CAR isn't dx-safe since you could pass it #1=(#1#) and then bam, the argument is accessible from the return value
2017-01-15T18:02:11Z drmeister: Yes - what does it mean exactly though?   That the arguments can be allocated on the stack because the function is guaranteed not to save the address of any of the arguments anywhere.
2017-01-15T18:02:22Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:03:06Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-15T18:03:11Z drmeister: That's a CONS node where the CAR points to the CONS node?
2017-01-15T18:03:15Z Bike: yeah.
2017-01-15T18:03:53Z Bike: what it means: that the accessibility of every value of each argument to a call is not added to by the call, i'd say. nonlocal exits may make it trickier...
2017-01-15T18:03:53Z drmeister: There be dragons here.
2017-01-15T18:06:12Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-15T18:07:11Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-15T18:07:35Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:10:12Z phoe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-15T18:11:59Z Bike: oh, and for your thing you'd also have to have the wrapper thing in get-motion-state be compiled differently, so that's a big pain too
2017-01-15T18:12:41Z phoe joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:12:58Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:13:05Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T18:14:36Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-15T18:15:01Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-15T18:15:40Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T18:18:13Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:18:15Z foom joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:18:50Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:20:17Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-15T18:22:20Z z0ltan joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:24:28Z drmeister: Hmm, I don't see that - how would it need to be compiled differently?
2017-01-15T18:25:07Z Bike: it would have to allocate the wrapper on the stack instead of the heap.
2017-01-15T18:26:14Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:26:19Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:27:36Z Bike: the stack of the outside function, too
2017-01-15T18:28:04Z drmeister: The calling function that calls get-motion-state allocates the space for get-motion-state to return its result in.
2017-01-15T18:28:15Z puchacz: hi, what's the current recommended lisp for windows pls? CCL? I would like to try ceramic
2017-01-15T18:28:32Z puchacz: (free lisp I mean)
2017-01-15T18:28:34Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:29:09Z Bike: drmeister: yes, but it probably wouldn't normally
2017-01-15T18:29:17Z drmeister: But yes, get-motion-state would need to be compiled to write it's return value into a structure on the stack provided by the caller as the first argument.   In llvm this is called an 'sret' argument.
2017-01-15T18:29:51Z drmeister: Wait - no, not in this case.   get-motion-state returns a pointer.
2017-01-15T18:30:19Z drmeister: Clasp then wraps that pointer in a container that keeps track of the type.
2017-01-15T18:30:42Z Bike: where does it do that wrapping?
2017-01-15T18:31:26Z drmeister: Currently it's a C++ wrapper for get-motion-state.  Hmmm
2017-01-15T18:31:48Z Bike: so as far as the compiler is concerned, inside the get-motion-state function.
2017-01-15T18:36:10Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T18:36:23Z drmeister: Yes - I'll have to think on that.
2017-01-15T18:37:16Z drmeister: Here's a completely different idea.  What if I had a tagged pointer for aligned C++ pointers?
2017-01-15T18:37:33Z Bike: i think in most lisps the set of things that can be turned into stack allocators is pretty fixed
2017-01-15T18:37:35Z defgeneric quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T18:37:55Z Bike: sbcl has an exhaustive list of functions (all CL functions, except for structure allocators)
2017-01-15T18:38:04Z drmeister: sbcl has a tagged pointer for aligned C pointers - doesn't it?
2017-01-15T18:38:12Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:38:13Z Bike: i have no idea.
2017-01-15T18:39:17Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW)
2017-01-15T18:39:33Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:39:49Z drmeister: The thing about that is I think I'll be losing type safety.
2017-01-15T18:39:52Z defgeneric joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:40:02Z drmeister: I think it would be like slinging void* around again.
2017-01-15T18:40:07Z drmeister: The bad old days
2017-01-15T18:42:27Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-15T18:42:58Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:45:16Z Bourne joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:47:13Z puchacz: anybody tried ceramic pls?
2017-01-15T18:52:22Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-15T18:54:15Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-15T18:56:47Z pjb: I don't often have GUI to implement…
2017-01-15T18:57:02Z pjb: It looks promizing anyways.
2017-01-15T18:57:16Z puchacz: yeah. but it seems to be a good idea, it starts electron in separate process
2017-01-15T18:58:39Z xuxuru quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-15T18:58:39Z Bourne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-15T19:00:01Z Bourne joined #lisp
2017-01-15T19:03:07Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-15T19:10:44Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-15T19:19:18Z haom joined #lisp
2017-01-15T19:19:18Z Bourne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-15T19:19:46Z Bourne joined #lisp
2017-01-15T19:27:22Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T19:27:35Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-15T19:33:13Z z0ltan quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.5.1)
2017-01-15T19:34:41Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-15T19:41:38Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-15T19:44:40Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T19:51:03Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-15T19:52:56Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T19:56:52Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-15T19:57:33Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T19:58:55Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T20:03:31Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-15T20:06:58Z axion: What is the fastest way to generate and produce a sum of 1 billion random integers of the range [0, 1]?
2017-01-15T20:07:11Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T20:10:32Z raydeejay: naive mode on: draw a random from 0 to 1 billion?
2017-01-15T20:10:42Z raydeejay: probably not what you want to do...
2017-01-15T20:10:44Z axion: I'm trying to do this efficiently without any compiler hints or such, to compare performance with an algorithm I wrote in another language.
2017-01-15T20:10:58Z Petit_Dejeuner: slightly less naive mode, specify the element-type of the array
2017-01-15T20:12:06Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-15T20:12:09Z jason_m: you can sum inside a loop.  Is this too slow? (loop repeat 100 sum (random 1.0))
2017-01-15T20:12:16Z jason_m: (replace 100 with 1 billion)
2017-01-15T20:13:32Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-15T20:14:43Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-15T20:15:09Z axion: The first thing I tried was (loop repeat (expt 10 9) sum (random 2)), but I am amazed how slow it is compared to another language
2017-01-15T20:17:03Z jason_m: could you short-cut it and use a result from probability? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irwin%E2%80%93Hall_distribution
2017-01-15T20:17:06Z axion: Like, more than an order of magnitude on SBCL
2017-01-15T20:17:47Z Bike: it would actually just be a binomial distribution
2017-01-15T20:18:24Z Bike: but yes, it is weirdly slow
2017-01-15T20:19:25Z Petit_Dejeuner: Easiest most idiomatic way; (random 1000000000)
2017-01-15T20:19:30Z Bike: but that's wrong
2017-01-15T20:19:36Z Petit_Dejeuner: I was about to ask if it was.
2017-01-15T20:19:57Z Bike: it's binomial, not uniform. five hundred million is obviously more likely than zero.
2017-01-15T20:20:18Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-15T20:20:43Z axion: the whole point is to generate each random number and produce a sum, for parallel computing purposes
2017-01-15T20:21:08Z jason_m: Ah it is binomial, i missed that axion was asking about integers, not floats
2017-01-15T20:21:15Z Bike: um, that's a bit different. to do that efficiently in parallel you need a tree of sums, which is not what loop does
2017-01-15T20:21:55Z Petit_Dejeuner: axion: What do you mean "for parallel computing purposes"?
2017-01-15T20:21:58Z axion: I no, I'm only interested in 1 worker for this test
2017-01-15T20:22:00Z axion: know*
2017-01-15T20:26:23Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-15T20:26:29Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T20:26:39Z Bike: anyway, you're asking for both "fasttest" and "without compiler hints" which is basically contradictory, so the loop is probably the best it's going to be. i'm going to guess that it's slow because sbcl's prng is not optimized for speed I don't think.
2017-01-15T20:27:12Z Bike: also, sampling a distribution is way more complicated than i thought, no wonder i'm not a statistician
2017-01-15T20:27:33Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-15T20:31:56Z jason_m: if sbcl's random is too slow, you could use c's through the foreign function interface and see how much better the performance is.
2017-01-15T20:33:40Z axion: yeah most of the time is spent in RAND, but converting it to just 1, is still several seconds, when it's 1/20th of a second in the other dynamic language I'm using
2017-01-15T20:34:06Z axion: RANDOM rather
2017-01-15T20:34:09Z Bike: "just 1"? (loop repeat (expt 10 9) sum 1) you mean?
2017-01-15T20:34:12Z axion: right
2017-01-15T20:34:39Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-15T20:34:43Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-15T20:34:55Z axion: about 3 seconds compared to 0.05 in my previous implementation.
2017-01-15T20:35:44Z Bike: takes quite a while for me in p ython as well
2017-01-15T20:36:37Z froggey joined #lisp
2017-01-15T20:37:05Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-15T20:37:16Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-15T20:38:13Z Bike: (loop repeat (expt 10 9) sum 1 into x of-type fixnum finally (return x)) takes maybe a third the time
2017-01-15T20:39:54Z Bike: or (loop repeat (expt 10 9) sum 1 fixnum) apparently also works
2017-01-15T20:40:34Z axion: Yeah, interestingly it has no noticable improvement when using RANDOM
2017-01-15T20:40:45Z axion: SO yeah, that function is not very efficient
2017-01-15T20:41:25Z Bike: it shaves off like a second for me, which doesn't matter since it takes twenty seconds anyway
2017-01-15T20:41:34Z Bike: i think sbcl uses a mersenne twister. do you know what the other system is doing?
2017-01-15T20:41:37Z axion: it shaves off 0.2s for me
2017-01-15T20:41:45Z axion: It's using MT as well
2017-01-15T20:41:55Z Bike: weird.
2017-01-15T20:42:24Z jason_m: going through cffi (and mod'ing the result) is about 50% slower for me.  (loop repeat (expt 10 9) sum (mod (cffi:foreign-funcall "rand" :int) 2))
2017-01-15T20:42:42Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-15T20:43:11Z pjb: axion: did you use rand() in your other implementation?
2017-01-15T20:43:36Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-15T20:43:39Z axion: pjb: Yes, though not from C
2017-01-15T20:48:42Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-15T20:54:25Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-15T21:03:38Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-15T21:03:38Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-15T21:03:38Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-15T21:06:38Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T21:08:08Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-15T21:12:05Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T21:13:30Z Houl quit (Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist)
2017-01-15T21:15:33Z knobo: axion: can you show me the code of the program in the other language?
2017-01-15T21:23:15Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-15T21:23:22Z malice: hi all
2017-01-15T21:23:28Z diogofranco: I just tried python and node and their both slow as hell
2017-01-15T21:23:28Z malice: o/
2017-01-15T21:24:03Z diogofranco: which language is it @axion?
2017-01-15T21:24:31Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-15T21:30:14Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-15T21:32:03Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-15T21:32:35Z jason_m: I'm curious as well.  I did a staright forward c program and it still takes me 12 seconds (about half of what sbcl takes).
2017-01-15T21:33:13Z jason_m: (sbcl without any compiler hints)
2017-01-15T21:35:04Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-15T21:35:19Z axion: Julia
2017-01-15T21:36:52Z phoe: axion: if it's Julia, show me the disassembly
2017-01-15T21:37:05Z phoe: so we can compare it to SBCL disassembly.
2017-01-15T21:39:36Z Davidbrcz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-15T21:41:45Z jackdaniel: afaik julia does fancy jit during the computation, so disassembly won't tell much here
2017-01-15T21:44:37Z Josh_2 quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-15T21:45:51Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-15T21:48:18Z axion: Right. asm would be useless
2017-01-15T21:49:15Z haom left #lisp
2017-01-15T21:54:40Z deank quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-15T21:55:51Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-15T21:57:03Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-15T22:05:03Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T22:05:22Z scymtym: sbcl has a transform on RANDOM that is only applied if SPEED is sufficiently high. also, (random 2) does a special lookup in each iteration. putting the random state into a lexical variable avoids that
2017-01-15T22:07:41Z shifty joined #lisp
2017-01-15T22:07:50Z Bike: speed 3 cut it in half, nice
2017-01-15T22:09:48Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-15T22:10:07Z knobo: just looping and counting to (truncate (10.0 ** 9.0)) in ocaml takes about 20 seconds.
2017-01-15T22:13:12Z knobo: hmmm. the compiled version took 2.5 seconds.
2017-01-15T22:14:55Z bpf quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T22:15:14Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-15T22:16:05Z vap1 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T22:17:14Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T22:18:48Z bigos quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T22:19:05Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T22:19:06Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T22:19:13Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T22:22:34Z defgeneric quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-15T22:23:41Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-15T22:24:33Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-15T22:24:44Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-15T22:25:30Z hhdave quit (Quit: hhdave)
2017-01-15T22:25:58Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T22:27:16Z defgeneric joined #lisp
2017-01-15T22:27:23Z knobo: 0.7 sec with ocaml. I have not touched ocaml in 10 years (or something like that)
2017-01-15T22:28:41Z malice: What are we optimizing today?
2017-01-15T22:28:52Z Bike: binomial sample
2017-01-15T22:30:28Z knobo: Is it something like this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/336677
2017-01-15T22:30:56Z knobo: Maybe I have been doing something completly different.. lol
2017-01-15T22:31:09Z Bike: that looks right to me, though i'm guessing at the syntax
2017-01-15T22:31:34Z knobo: Bike: me too. I had to google how to do every step on the way.
2017-01-15T22:32:10Z knobo: ocamlopt -o progprog test3.ml ; time ./progprog  -> 0.706 secs
2017-01-15T22:32:40Z leo_song quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-15T22:32:41Z leo_song_ joined #lisp
2017-01-15T22:32:54Z leo_song_ is now known as leo_song
2017-01-15T22:35:20Z knobo: in common lisp with (declare (optimize (speed 3) (safety 0))) the just counting and adding 1 part is 0.35 sec
2017-01-15T22:39:58Z phoe: knobo: additionally with (debug 0)?
2017-01-15T22:40:19Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-15T22:40:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-15T22:40:57Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-15T22:41:19Z knobo:   (declare (optimize (speed 3) (safety 0) (debug 0)))   (loop repeat (expt 10 9) sum (random 2) fixnum)) is 9.8 seconds
2017-01-15T22:42:10Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T22:44:09Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-15T22:49:45Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-15T22:51:31Z aeth: based on slime+emacs, (optimize) supports speed space safety debug compilation-speed
2017-01-15T22:52:05Z aeth: So I think the maximum speed would be (speed 3) (space 0) (safety 0) (debug 0) (compilation-speed 0)
2017-01-15T22:52:09Z aeth: Although I'm not sure about space
2017-01-15T22:52:53Z travv0 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-15T22:53:27Z aeth: It looks like space means both meanings that one could think of when thinking "space", "both code size and run-time space". http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/d_optimi.htm
2017-01-15T22:53:56Z knobo: I don't know if the diss
2017-01-15T22:54:01Z telouragan joined #lisp
2017-01-15T22:54:18Z knobo: disassebly of the ocaml file can be analyzed.
2017-01-15T22:54:23Z knobo: https://gist.github.com/knobo/0f03ea2de9b5fe8a33f2c59022419a9f
2017-01-15T22:54:43Z telouragan left #lisp
2017-01-15T22:55:19Z malice: I want to define a type which is a list of integers.
2017-01-15T22:55:21Z malice: Is it doable?
2017-01-15T22:55:31Z malice: I tried (deftype my-string () '(list character))
2017-01-15T22:55:37Z malice: but it's a bad thing to be a type specifier
2017-01-15T22:58:07Z aeth: malice: usually for that I just do a runtime type check where I (map nil (lambda (x) (check-type x 'foo)) some-list), which obviously isn't ideal, but it at least allows SBCL to assume from that point on that x in some-list is 'foo
2017-01-15T22:58:27Z aeth: Unless there's a better way, this is obviously only doable for short lists.
2017-01-15T22:58:42Z Bike: as for an actual type, the answer is no, unless you do satisfies with something like aeth said
2017-01-15T22:58:43Z aeth: malice: Does it have to be a list or could you use an upgraded array of type fixnum?
2017-01-15T22:58:55Z Bike: and you don't want to do that
2017-01-15T22:59:02Z aeth: Bike: afaik, check-type is more efficient than satisfies, but I could be wrong
2017-01-15T22:59:20Z Bike: that's not really a sensible comparison and doesn't relate to what i said anyway
2017-01-15T23:00:29Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-15T23:00:45Z pjb: malice: it's doable, but complex and not that useful.
2017-01-15T23:01:39Z malice: okay, thanks for the answer
2017-01-15T23:01:46Z aeth: oh, oops, check-type types aren't quoted, unlike types almost everywhere else, so it's just (check-type x foo)
2017-01-15T23:01:48Z malice: I wish that typing was better supported in CL
2017-01-15T23:02:05Z pjb: You can implement it yourself.
2017-01-15T23:02:16Z Bike: not really
2017-01-15T23:02:21Z malice: Yes, but currently I (a) lack knowledge on how to do that, and (b) lack time
2017-01-15T23:02:24Z pjb: The fact that nobody implemented it already shows that it's not that useful.
2017-01-15T23:02:36Z malice: Well, I think it would be useful.
2017-01-15T23:02:46Z malice: I've seen types of Haskell and how you can do fantastic stuff with it.
2017-01-15T23:02:59Z malice: If CL had something like that it would be really useful
2017-01-15T23:03:07Z aeth: I'd personally say that the two main weaknesses of CL compared to some modern languages are CPU cache utilization and the type system.
2017-01-15T23:03:08Z malice: ofc. CL is different from haskell and we're mixing 2 languages in here, but still
2017-01-15T23:03:08Z Bike: a list of integers type would have the effect that (car list) (nth n list) etc would be effectively wrapped in (the integer ...), like with arrays
2017-01-15T23:03:41Z malice: aeth: what do you mean "CPU cache utilization"?
2017-01-15T23:04:20Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-15T23:07:26Z aeth: malice: A lot of high performance code that stayed on the CPU (instead of moving to the GPU) is now about (CPU) cache coherence, that's what I meant.
2017-01-15T23:08:22Z pjb: malice: It's a little easier if you want to specify a specific list of type.  Eg. (defun proper-list-of-integer-p (x) (and (proper-list-p x) (every 'integerp x)))  (deftype list-of-integer () `(satisfies proper-list-of-integer-p))
2017-01-15T23:10:06Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-15T23:10:31Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-15T23:10:45Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-15T23:10:46Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-15T23:11:16Z malice: pjb:what's proper-list-p?
2017-01-15T23:11:16Z aeth: malice: So e.g. afaik even when random access isn't an issue, upgraded simple-arrays should be better on the CPU cache in high performance code than linked lists.
2017-01-15T23:11:25Z malice: Is it something like (= (length lst) n)?
2017-01-15T23:11:38Z pjb: malice: a list that is not a dotted list or a circular list.
2017-01-15T23:11:44Z malice: Oh, okay.
2017-01-15T23:12:12Z pjb: length works only on proper-lists or vectors.
2017-01-15T23:12:20Z pjb: list-length works only on non-circular lists.
2017-01-15T23:12:39Z pjb: list-length works only on non-dotted lists. (it works on circular lists).
2017-01-15T23:13:27Z pjb: Use com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.list:list-lengths for any kind of "list".
2017-01-15T23:13:47Z pjb quit (Quit: Be seeing you in the Village!)
2017-01-15T23:14:13Z malice: aeth: so CL's arrays/vectors do work nicely with cache, or do they not?
2017-01-15T23:15:10Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T23:16:30Z aeth: malice: CL's upgraded (simple?) arrays should afaik work nicely with the cache, but they're the only thing that I know of that do, and so that limits you to arrays that all contain the same kind of number (and not portably cache-friendly, e.g. CLISP doesn't upgrade float arrays!)
2017-01-15T23:17:35Z aeth: So I think you can see how this issue is sort of related to the type system, too.
2017-01-15T23:17:59Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-15T23:18:23Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-15T23:18:23Z malice: ah
2017-01-15T23:18:25Z malice: okay
2017-01-15T23:18:54Z malice: Do you have any guarantees on memory layout of CLOS class?
2017-01-15T23:19:52Z malice: For example afaik, in C++ you're guaranteed that member variables occupy contiguous space, with optional padding at the end.
2017-01-15T23:20:07Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-15T23:21:14Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T23:21:47Z aeth: malice: I think in SBCL, structs functions that way, but not CLOS classes... and I think it might just be structs with the right kind of types
2017-01-15T23:23:04Z malice: Yeah, but truth be told
2017-01-15T23:23:09Z malice: It's "fast enough".
2017-01-15T23:23:20Z malice: When you need this level of control, you're left with C++ and stuff.
2017-01-15T23:23:31Z aeth: You *cannot* put those CL structs in arrays and get an upgraded array type in SBCL, even when you restrict it further and try e.g. (upgraded-array-element-type '(simple-array fixnum (4)))
2017-01-15T23:23:59Z aeth: (A struct can be based on an array, so that should be equivalent to at least some kinds of typed structs)
2017-01-15T23:24:49Z aeth: malice: But I see no reason why structs can't be repurposed for this role since they don't really serve many useful purposes now that CLOS is part of CL.
2017-01-15T23:25:07Z aeth: Obviously, it would only work on certain structs.
2017-01-15T23:25:39Z Bike: CL doesn't have a concept of memory. there are no contiguity guarantees for anything.
2017-01-15T23:26:30Z aeth: Bike: right, an upgraded-array-element-type afaik only has to return something other than T for 'character (i.e. strings)
2017-01-15T23:26:42Z Bike: and bit
2017-01-15T23:26:47Z aeth: ah, whoops
2017-01-15T23:26:53Z aeth: true
2017-01-15T23:26:54Z Bike: and base-char, i think. but arrays aren't guaranteed to be contiguous
2017-01-15T23:27:03Z aeth: yes
2017-01-15T23:27:05Z Bike: i mean it's the obvious way to do it, but it doesn't say it's necessary anywhere
2017-01-15T23:27:42Z aeth: But I would still love to see a more powerful system of upgraded-arrays, possibly paired with structs, even though it wouldn't be mandatory for implementations to do it the fast way (and in fact can't, e.g. implementations on top of JS)
2017-01-15T23:29:01Z Bike: so basically you'd like structs with different eq/eql behavior like numbers.
2017-01-15T23:29:47Z Bike: eql on structs sounds bad, actually. hum
2017-01-15T23:29:53Z aeth: I'd like structs or something similar holding various kinds of numbers that I could tightly pack into arrays on supported implementations, which obviously could still run as T-arrays in CLISP, JSCL, etc.
2017-01-15T23:30:18Z aeth: i.e. I'd like to say "this has 3 single-floats and a bit and an (unsigned-byte 8)"
2017-01-15T23:30:35Z Bike: what i mean is that that implies that the result of aref will not be eq to the original object put in the array
2017-01-15T23:30:42Z aeth: or even "this has an array of 3 single-floats, and a bit, and an (unsigned-byte 8)"
2017-01-15T23:32:34Z aeth: Bike: yeah, but for some data structures the size can be exactly known, so it's a shame there isn't a way afaik to make that cache friendly
2017-01-15T23:32:57Z aeth: I suppose you could coerce it all back and forth between '(unsigned-byte n) and the actual data, but that probably would break the efficiency gains
2017-01-15T23:32:59Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-15T23:33:45Z travv0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T23:34:44Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T23:37:38Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T23:40:14Z aeth: Oh, malice left.
2017-01-15T23:41:10Z aeth: I was about to point out that there is a CFFI overhead when interacting with C or C++ code afaik, so there are cases where a smart compiler keeping it all in CL would beat mixing C++ and CL afaik.
2017-01-15T23:42:08Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-15T23:52:06Z brucem quit (Changing host)
2017-01-15T23:52:06Z brucem joined #lisp
2017-01-15T23:52:15Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-15T23:54:15Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-15T23:55:02Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-16T00:01:27Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T00:04:22Z wheelsucker quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T00:04:36Z pillton joined #lisp
2017-01-16T00:04:50Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T00:06:14Z cosimone joined #lisp
2017-01-16T00:12:43Z cosimone left #lisp
2017-01-16T00:13:36Z jibanes quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2017-01-16T00:14:14Z jibanes joined #lisp
2017-01-16T00:20:56Z prole quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T00:22:05Z himmAllRight quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T00:23:52Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-16T00:23:59Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-16T00:25:05Z Oladon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T00:26:13Z Oladon joined #lisp
2017-01-16T00:27:42Z schoppenhauer quit (Quit: Adé)
2017-01-16T00:32:59Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-16T00:35:44Z himmAllRight quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-16T00:37:03Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-16T00:37:24Z dobridobri joined #lisp
2017-01-16T00:40:22Z jibanes quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-16T00:41:00Z jibanes joined #lisp
2017-01-16T00:41:01Z jibanes quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-16T00:41:26Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-16T00:41:30Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T00:41:35Z quazimod2 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T00:42:48Z jibanes joined #lisp
2017-01-16T00:46:36Z quazimod3 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T00:49:35Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-16T00:58:17Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-16T01:01:56Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T01:07:46Z diogofranco: ecl returns # on (/ 0 0.0)
2017-01-16T01:08:01Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-16T01:08:12Z diogofranco: Is this because the implementation supports infinity or something?
2017-01-16T01:08:18Z NeverDie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T01:10:16Z diogofranco: I thought it should error out
2017-01-16T01:13:14Z cromachina: https://common-lisp.net/project/ieeefp-tests/
2017-01-16T01:13:25Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T01:19:14Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-16T01:25:34Z scottj quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-16T01:26:05Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T01:30:40Z nowhereman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T01:40:33Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T01:40:49Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-16T01:43:55Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T01:45:36Z quazimod4 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T01:48:17Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-16T01:48:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-16T01:51:01Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-16T02:02:44Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T02:04:37Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-16T02:15:53Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-16T02:27:46Z dddddd quit (Quit: Hasta otra..)
2017-01-16T02:40:11Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T02:40:15Z sellout-1 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T02:40:47Z ozzloy quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T02:50:36Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-16T02:52:18Z circ-user-QcIM5 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-16T02:53:33Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T02:55:08Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2017-01-16T03:02:37Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp
2017-01-16T03:03:15Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-16T03:03:48Z circ-user-QcIM5 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T03:06:35Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T03:08:14Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-16T03:13:46Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-16T03:17:38Z macdavid313 quit (Quit: macdavid313)
2017-01-16T03:18:47Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T03:31:15Z travv0 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T03:37:15Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-16T03:42:35Z circ-user-QcIM5 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T03:43:27Z arescorpio quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T03:46:10Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-16T03:47:38Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T03:58:12Z ozzloy quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-16T04:03:23Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-16T04:09:22Z himmAllRight quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T04:16:21Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2017-01-16T04:18:14Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-16T04:27:09Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-16T04:27:35Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T04:28:59Z groovy2shoes joined #lisp
2017-01-16T04:32:08Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-16T04:32:57Z stardiviner quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-16T04:33:29Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T04:34:28Z amokr quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-16T04:34:29Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-16T04:36:47Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T04:43:54Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-16T04:52:41Z mfiano joined #lisp
2017-01-16T04:55:32Z mfiano quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T04:56:02Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-16T04:56:39Z mfiano joined #lisp
2017-01-16T04:59:22Z Younder quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T05:00:50Z pillton: G'day beach. Happy new year.
2017-01-16T05:01:00Z beach: Thanks!  You too!
2017-01-16T05:03:15Z dcluna quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T05:03:24Z Younder joined #lisp
2017-01-16T05:04:46Z dcluna joined #lisp
2017-01-16T05:09:23Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-16T05:09:33Z quazimod3 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T05:09:43Z quazimod2 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T05:09:48Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-16T05:09:56Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-16T05:10:06Z quazimod4 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T05:11:35Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T05:12:34Z Fare: beach: finally ported acmart to racket and used it for my els17 paper
2017-01-16T05:14:18Z beach: Fare: Remind me what acmart is?
2017-01-16T05:14:50Z Fare: the new ACM LaTeX class mandatory in 2017
2017-01-16T05:15:01Z beach: Ah, OK.
2017-01-16T05:15:08Z beach: Great!
2017-01-16T05:15:12Z Fare: subsumes acmsmall, sigplan, etc.
2017-01-16T05:15:29Z Fare: and/or replaces them
2017-01-16T05:15:32Z beach: Yes, I remember now.
2017-01-16T05:16:03Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T05:16:08Z Fare: I found bug in the latex class. I should probably open a pull request against it at some point.
2017-01-16T05:18:16Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T05:18:29Z beach: Definitely!
2017-01-16T05:19:22Z Fare: looks like the most glaring bugs are fixed in git already, but not in the v1.25 published on the ACM site. Sigh.
2017-01-16T05:21:54Z Fare: beach: did I ever send you my evolutionism speech/article? I'm considering sending it to Salon des Refusés.
2017-01-16T05:22:27Z Fare: (also, if you have further feedback on my SNAPL and/or ELS submissions, I'm all ears)
2017-01-16T05:22:38Z beach: You didn't send it to me.  I would be interested.
2017-01-16T05:23:07Z beach: I don't think I have time for your SNAPL paper, but I can have a look at the ELS paper again.
2017-01-16T05:23:09Z Fare: which didn't I send? https://github.com/fare/fci2017 https://github.com/fare/asdf2017
2017-01-16T05:24:00Z Fare: ELS paper hasn't changed much -- I just shortened a few sentences to fit in the 2 pages, and used the correct class this time (after porting it to Racket).
2017-01-16T05:24:57Z beach: Fare: "did I ever send you my evolutionism speech/article?"
2017-01-16T05:25:05Z Fare: oh, ok
2017-01-16T05:25:21Z Fare: I want to revamp a new version for Refusés.
2017-01-16T05:25:26Z beach: OK.
2017-01-16T05:26:30Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-16T05:28:31Z Fare: OK, I'll revamp it first, then. "Deadline for submissions: February 1st 2017" says https://refuses.github.io/
2017-01-16T05:29:01Z Fare: "up to 9000 words" — I definitely have to revamp.
2017-01-16T05:29:32Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-16T05:31:55Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T05:33:47Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-16T05:37:17Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-16T05:38:27Z yoonkn joined #lisp
2017-01-16T05:51:50Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-16T05:52:27Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-16T05:56:54Z lisp_in_2017_lol joined #lisp
2017-01-16T05:59:13Z lisp_in_2017_lol: what's this ? -> https://github.com/cl21/cl21
2017-01-16T06:01:50Z beach: lisp_in_2017_lol: It is a bunch of macros and reader macros for Common Lisp to give it way more surface syntax than it currently has.
2017-01-16T06:02:17Z beach: lisp_in_2017_lol: I strongly suspect that it will fail to catch on.  I certainly do not intend to use it.
2017-01-16T06:02:58Z lisp_in_2017_lol: hmm
2017-01-16T06:08:39Z ozzloy quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T06:16:12Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2017-01-16T06:16:12Z ozzloy quit (Changing host)
2017-01-16T06:16:12Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2017-01-16T06:20:19Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-16T06:27:01Z Guest82 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T06:29:12Z setheus quit (Quit: Changing server)
2017-01-16T06:34:01Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-16T06:35:59Z Guest82 quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-16T06:36:42Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-16T06:41:34Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-16T06:52:29Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T06:53:22Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-16T06:53:22Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T06:53:26Z quazimod2 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T06:53:33Z quazimod3 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T06:53:35Z quazimod4 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:01:16Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:03:42Z scymtym quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T07:12:26Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T07:13:49Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:19:25Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-16T07:21:29Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T07:25:40Z quazimod3 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T07:25:43Z quazimod2 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T07:25:43Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T07:25:43Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T07:26:01Z quazimod4 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T07:27:30Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:27:34Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:27:41Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-16T07:27:44Z quazimod2 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:27:47Z bpf joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:27:55Z quazimod3 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:27:58Z quazimod4 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:29:14Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:30:21Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T07:37:42Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:37:42Z quazimod3 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T07:37:42Z quazimod4 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T07:41:28Z quazimod2 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-16T07:41:34Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T07:41:39Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:41:40Z quazimod1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T07:42:51Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:43:15Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:43:44Z quazimod2 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:44:29Z quazimod3 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:44:31Z quazimod4 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:47:32Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:48:29Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T07:51:25Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:53:08Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-16T07:53:20Z nowhere_man quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T07:53:28Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:54:22Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:55:30Z sepisoad joined #lisp
2017-01-16T07:58:35Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T08:02:21Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T08:02:33Z quazimod4 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T08:02:37Z quazimod3 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-16T08:02:53Z quazimod2 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T08:03:04Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-16T08:07:18Z shka_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:08:25Z d4ryus2 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:11:28Z d4ryus1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-16T08:13:07Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:13:12Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:13:16Z quazimod2 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:13:30Z sepisoad: is there a lua like scheme implementation which is portable (like lua) and easy to embed into c/c++ programs?
2017-01-16T08:13:57Z beach: sepisoad: This channel is about Common Lisp, so you had better check in #scheme.
2017-01-16T08:14:16Z jdz: But we can offer ECL!
2017-01-16T08:14:31Z beach: sepisoad: But if you would like to learn Common Lisp, there is ECL and Clasp.
2017-01-16T08:16:06Z sepisoad: are they small and portable and easy to embed into C code?
2017-01-16T08:16:13Z jackdaniel: sepisoad: yes :)
2017-01-16T08:16:13Z beach: sepisoad: Mostly, I think it is a bad idea to write an application in C or C++ only to discover that a dynamic language is needed for scripting and/or extension purposes.  Of course, if you are stuck with such an application, it may be the best choice to use something like ECL to extend it.
2017-01-16T08:16:59Z beach: sepisoad: ECL is.  Luckily, jackdaniel is the maintainer, so he can help you.
2017-01-16T08:17:00Z jackdaniel: sepisoad: ECL with some effort takes less than 100kB as a shared library
2017-01-16T08:17:17Z jackdaniel: with some *extra* effort – even less
2017-01-16T08:17:24Z sepisoad: coooool
2017-01-16T08:17:58Z jackdaniel: sepisoad: see https://common-lisp.net/project/ecl/main.html
2017-01-16T08:18:18Z quazimod3 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:18:20Z quazimod4 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:18:34Z jackdaniel: for instance https://common-lisp.net/project/ecl/index.html#orgheadline10 (embedding in Qt5.7)
2017-01-16T08:18:59Z sepisoad: you got me excited
2017-01-16T08:20:44Z jackdaniel: cool
2017-01-16T08:22:03Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:22:54Z sepisoad: jackdaniel, I'm getting the source code and going to compile it using mingw32 gcc!
2017-01-16T08:23:14Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:23:15Z jackdaniel: it should work with mingw, cygwin and msvc on windows
2017-01-16T08:23:25Z sepisoad: nice
2017-01-16T08:23:50Z quazimod2 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T08:24:05Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-16T08:24:08Z beach: sepisoad: The other nice surprise you might get is that ECL is probably faster than most Scheme implementations anyway.
2017-01-16T08:24:13Z quazimod3 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T08:24:13Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T08:24:21Z quazimod4 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T08:25:31Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:26:01Z jackdaniel never benchmarked ECL against any Scheme implementation
2017-01-16T08:27:09Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:28:34Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:29:45Z o1e9 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:31:37Z beach: I am guessing that the Scheme implementations that can be used for extension and scripting are probably implemented as interpreters.
2017-01-16T08:32:22Z beach: There are of course complete autonomous Scheme implementations that are fast.
2017-01-16T08:32:45Z yeticry joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:32:53Z yeticry_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T08:33:49Z jackdaniel: I think that many Scheme implementations are compilers, like in CL
2017-01-16T08:34:01Z beach: Sure.
2017-01-16T08:34:06Z jackdaniel: for instance Chicken is somewhat similar to ECL (C core, produces C code etc)
2017-01-16T08:34:18Z beach: But are they embeddable?
2017-01-16T08:34:57Z jackdaniel: in case of chicken – yes
2017-01-16T08:35:44Z beach: OK.  Notice that I used qualifiers such as "might", "probably", and "most". :)
2017-01-16T08:35:44Z jackdaniel: of course ECL is better imo, but I think I may be not objective ;-)
2017-01-16T08:36:44Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:41:41Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:42:00Z jdz: I read an article about Chicken scheme recently and found it quite interesting: http://www.more-magic.net/posts/internals-gc.html
2017-01-16T08:42:47Z jackdaniel: it is interesting indeed, and has very nice documentation
2017-01-16T08:45:07Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:47:44Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:58:10Z ogamita joined #lisp
2017-01-16T08:58:42Z Bike quit (Quit: sleep)
2017-01-16T08:59:24Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T08:59:41Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-16T09:03:44Z hhdave_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T09:04:28Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-16T09:04:28Z hhdave_ is now known as hhdave
2017-01-16T09:06:24Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T09:07:55Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-16T09:09:35Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2017-01-16T09:12:49Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T09:12:55Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-16T09:14:30Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-16T09:16:35Z ryanwatkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T09:17:30Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T09:18:51Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-16T09:18:59Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-16T09:19:37Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-16T09:31:14Z ogamita quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T09:32:03Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-16T09:33:07Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-16T09:33:42Z ryanwatkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T09:33:55Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-16T09:36:44Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T09:38:12Z o1e9 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-16T09:41:02Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T09:46:40Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-16T09:49:37Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2017-01-16T09:52:09Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T09:53:50Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-16T10:02:10Z lonjil quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T10:02:18Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-16T10:03:03Z MetaHertz joined #lisp
2017-01-16T10:09:29Z yoonkn quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T10:12:46Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-16T10:15:14Z lisp_in_2017_lol quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T10:19:20Z xantoz quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T10:20:26Z strelox quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T10:21:32Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-16T10:22:38Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-16T10:27:20Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-16T10:29:23Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-16T10:32:45Z heurist_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T10:34:26Z heurist`_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T10:45:35Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-16T10:46:05Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T10:49:06Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-16T11:01:36Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T11:05:26Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-16T11:11:39Z flamebeard_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T11:11:46Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T11:12:22Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-16T11:13:05Z flamebeard quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T11:21:03Z revdan joined #lisp
2017-01-16T11:29:46Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-16T11:30:05Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-16T11:32:11Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T11:32:55Z dobridobri quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-16T11:40:15Z diogofranco_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T11:42:44Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T11:48:18Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-16T11:53:52Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-16T11:59:50Z flamebeard_ is now known as flamebeard
2017-01-16T12:00:47Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-16T12:04:42Z ogamita joined #lisp
2017-01-16T12:06:10Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-16T12:12:55Z chavezgu quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-16T12:16:24Z chavezgu joined #lisp
2017-01-16T12:16:54Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-16T12:18:43Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-16T12:24:44Z diogofranco_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T12:25:57Z sepisoad quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T12:26:23Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-16T12:26:55Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T12:27:12Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-16T12:27:25Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T12:28:22Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-16T12:37:02Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-16T12:38:50Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T12:39:06Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-16T12:44:45Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-16T12:45:27Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T12:46:57Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-16T12:51:58Z papachan quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-16T13:00:23Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T13:01:54Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:01:55Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:06:53Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:09:20Z NeverDie quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-16T13:11:55Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:15:53Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T13:17:18Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:20:48Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:23:36Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T13:24:38Z cthulhum joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:26:16Z z3r0_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T13:26:39Z d4ryus2 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-16T13:28:39Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:32:24Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:32:43Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-16T13:33:05Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:36:25Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T13:36:52Z EdwardCoffin joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:38:27Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:42:30Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T13:46:29Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:47:43Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T13:49:01Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-16T13:49:38Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:49:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:52:19Z xantoz joined #lisp
2017-01-16T13:58:31Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T13:58:51Z Sigyn quit (Quit: Can we drop the ‘artificial intelligence’? It’s a bit like me calling you a meat-based processing system.)
2017-01-16T13:59:10Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T13:59:25Z Sigyn joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:01:52Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:02:01Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:02:59Z malice` joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:03:25Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:03:26Z malice`: hey all
2017-01-16T14:04:02Z jackdaniel: \o
2017-01-16T14:04:45Z beach: Hello malice`.
2017-01-16T14:05:02Z malice`: Hi beach
2017-01-16T14:07:55Z beach: malice`: I saw your question about the layout of instances.
2017-01-16T14:08:53Z beach: malice`: Obviously, you can't say anything about the layout of any CLOS class, because every class in Common Lisp is a CLOS class.  But you can find out the layout of instances of standard classes, and you can even influence that layout.
2017-01-16T14:09:12Z malice`: You mean memory layout?
2017-01-16T14:09:20Z beach: See for instance http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/instance-structure-protocol.html and related pages for more information.
2017-01-16T14:09:22Z malice`: I am currently looking through the logs, I don't remember the exact question, sorry.
2017-01-16T14:09:41Z beach: <malice> Do you have any guarantees on memory layout of CLOS class?
2017-01-16T14:09:56Z malice`: That one. Okay
2017-01-16T14:11:26Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T14:11:51Z beach: But I agree with other comments on related topics, that in Common Lisp you can't have (say) the elements of a struct packed into an array or into a standard instance, simply because of the way identity works in Common Lisp.
2017-01-16T14:12:38Z malice`: Nice reference, thanks!
2017-01-16T14:13:06Z malice`: I've bought AMOP, but I don't have time right now to read it. I'm also finishing reading the book about CLOS to make sure that I know it before diving into mop
2017-01-16T14:13:31Z jackdaniel: shame I don't live in Poznań anymore, I would borrow it form you! :P
2017-01-16T14:13:37Z beach: Yeah the AMOP is a bit tricky to read.  I think I abandoned it more than once.
2017-01-16T14:18:43Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:18:50Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T14:24:45Z M-Illandan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T14:24:45Z RichardPaulBck[m quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T14:24:45Z harlequin78[m] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T14:25:50Z nullx002- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T14:27:30Z Petit_Dejeuner: beach: Tricky in what way?
2017-01-16T14:28:35Z beach: If you are not used to that kind of stuff, the metacircular definitions can be hard to digest.
2017-01-16T14:28:55Z beach: You basically already have to know how it works in order to understand how it is supposed to work.
2017-01-16T14:29:46Z beach: The only way I have found to finally understand stuff like that is to re-read several times, each time with a little more understanding.
2017-01-16T14:29:57Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:30:07Z beach: But I am a notoriously slow thinker, so maybe others don't have that problem.
2017-01-16T14:30:19Z Petit_Dejeuner: Sounds difficult.
2017-01-16T14:30:33Z beach: So you haven't read it?
2017-01-16T14:31:06Z beach: It basically defines CLOS using CLOS.
2017-01-16T14:31:17Z Petit_Dejeuner: I haven't.
2017-01-16T14:31:25Z Petit_Dejeuner: I've heard about it in here and lispcafe
2017-01-16T14:31:43Z beach: Then I definitely recommend you read it, keeping those difficulties in mind.
2017-01-16T14:32:41Z varjag: it's a great book to read when you have a rough idea of what MOP is and need it for some practical end
2017-01-16T14:33:14Z varjag: but perhaps doesn't work as well as leisurly reading
2017-01-16T14:33:35Z beach: Yes, but the thing is that the only way to get a rough idea of what MOP is, is to read the book. :)
2017-01-16T14:33:55Z beach: Hence my recommendation to be prepared to read it several times.
2017-01-16T14:34:12Z varjag: your idea of rough idea is much finer than mine :p
2017-01-16T14:34:24Z beach: Ah, OK. :)
2017-01-16T14:34:33Z Petit_Dejeuner: I suppose I'll find out how rough is rough soon enough.
2017-01-16T14:34:42Z beach: Indeed.
2017-01-16T14:35:15Z Petit_Dejeuner: I think PCL briefly mentioned something about it. Different forms of method combination or something?
2017-01-16T14:35:39Z varjag: that too
2017-01-16T14:37:04Z nullx002- joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:38:22Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:39:10Z Petit_Dejeuner: Ah yes, I found it. The 'define-method-combination' form.
2017-01-16T14:40:59Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T14:42:04Z phoe: "You basically already have to know how it works in order to understand how it is supposed to work."
2017-01-16T14:42:14Z phoe: beach: just my reaction when I first peeked into AMOP
2017-01-16T14:42:15Z shka_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-16T14:42:17Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:42:27Z beach: I fully understand.
2017-01-16T14:42:58Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T14:44:41Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T14:45:09Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-16T14:45:53Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:49:59Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:52:58Z ogamita: beach: we're all slow thinkers: our brain cycle frequency doesn't go over 100 Hz.
2017-01-16T14:53:18Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:54:24Z jackdaniel: I think it is a reference to the Kahneman's book
2017-01-16T14:55:42Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:56:43Z beach: jackdaniel: I hadn't thought about that, but you are right.  My training made me use that part more often.
2017-01-16T14:57:59Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:58:05Z jackdaniel: that's how we assimilate bright ideas – we give names to them
2017-01-16T14:58:18Z jackdaniel: (as a society I mean)
2017-01-16T14:58:36Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-16T14:58:56Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T14:59:38Z pierpa` joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:00:27Z RichardPaulBck[m joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:01:55Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:01:58Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:07:39Z M-Illandan joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:07:47Z harlequin78[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:09:06Z puchacz_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:09:11Z puchacz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T15:12:56Z nowhereman quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-16T15:13:09Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:15:38Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-16T15:17:22Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:18:15Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:20:22Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:22:48Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-16T15:25:03Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T15:31:23Z rumbler3_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T15:34:01Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:36:56Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:42:35Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-16T15:44:16Z ryanwatkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T15:45:02Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:46:22Z flip214: can somebody help me with ABCL, please? (QL:quickload :hunchentoot) breaks with
2017-01-16T15:46:24Z flip214: Failed to require  ABCL-CONTRIB because 'Java exception 'java.lang.NoSuchMethodException: No applicable method named getURLs found in java.lang.ClassLoader or jdk.internal.loader.ClassLoaders$AppClassLoader'.'
2017-01-16T15:46:35Z flip214: and I can't (REQUIRE :abcl-contrib) manually, too.
2017-01-16T15:46:57Z flip214: what can I do to tell it the correct path? the JAR is in the same directory as ABCL.jar.
2017-01-16T15:47:36Z easye: flip214: I think you need to update ABCL.
2017-01-16T15:48:24Z easye: The removal of getURLs() happened with Java8
2017-01-16T15:48:31Z beaky quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-16T15:48:45Z easye: flip214: followup with me on #abcl?
2017-01-16T15:49:16Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T15:49:28Z flip214: easye: ack, thank you!
2017-01-16T15:50:36Z beaky joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:50:59Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:51:34Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-16T15:51:34Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:52:08Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-16T15:53:34Z slyrus joined #lisp
2017-01-16T16:00:38Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-16T16:01:19Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-16T16:02:07Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-16T16:02:16Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T16:08:12Z sellout-1 quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-16T16:11:53Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-16T16:13:27Z revdan quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-16T16:13:55Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T16:15:34Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T16:18:10Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T16:18:24Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-16T16:26:43Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T16:27:24Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-16T16:27:32Z circ-user-QcIM5 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T16:28:35Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-16T16:29:35Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T16:32:07Z revdan joined #lisp
2017-01-16T16:33:30Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T16:37:18Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-16T16:40:49Z rjid quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T16:41:27Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-16T16:43:35Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T16:46:04Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T16:48:16Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T16:48:59Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T16:50:01Z flip214: Am I doing something wrong if QL-DIST:DEPENDENCY-TREE returns NIL for a loaded system?
2017-01-16T16:50:11Z flip214: I've got quite a list of other systems in the :depends-on...
2017-01-16T16:50:35Z flip214: hmmm, it works for :hunchentoot...
2017-01-16T16:51:21Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T16:51:31Z loke: flip214: Which system are you testing with?
2017-01-16T16:51:57Z flip214: a self-defined ASDF
2017-01-16T16:52:07Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T16:52:14Z flip214: does QL:D-T only work with QL systems?
2017-01-16T16:52:19Z loke: flip214: Right. The dep tree only works for QL systems.
2017-01-16T16:52:21Z loke: Not your own.
2017-01-16T16:52:34Z flip214: ;(
2017-01-16T16:53:10Z loke: Donate some money to QL, and then politely request the feature :-)
2017-01-16T16:54:05Z flip214: Can I ask ASDF for the dependencies of my own system?
2017-01-16T16:54:22Z flip214: ah, got it.
2017-01-16T16:59:56Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T16:59:59Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-16T17:00:16Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:01:40Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:02:21Z revdan quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-16T17:04:52Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T17:05:49Z easye: Can I query ASDF for the system that "I" am part of?
2017-01-16T17:06:39Z easye: (I guess one could look for a similarly named fasl under  <file:~/.slime/>
2017-01-16T17:06:56Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:07:59Z easye: matching against CL:*LOAD-TRUENAME* or whatnot)
2017-01-16T17:08:28Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T17:08:31Z beach: I didn't even understand the question.
2017-01-16T17:09:04Z easye: Hm.  Can a given piece of code in an abritrary "file compilation unit" know what ASDF system it is declared within?
2017-01-16T17:09:43Z easye: (I want to get rid of the argument for ASDF:SYSTEM-RELATIVE-PATHNAME.  It has a well defined default semantic.
2017-01-16T17:10:02Z easye: as long as each file compilation unit is part of one ASDF system)
2017-01-16T17:10:05Z beach: For starters, a file can be part of several ASDF systems.
2017-01-16T17:10:07Z easye: Does that make sense.
2017-01-16T17:10:10Z beach: Yes.
2017-01-16T17:10:16Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T17:10:23Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:10:32Z easye: Assume the constraint that each file is part of at most one ASDF system.
2017-01-16T17:10:45Z easye: (or has a "primary" relationship with one of a set)
2017-01-16T17:10:47Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:11:00Z beach doesn't know the answer.
2017-01-16T17:11:07Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:11:16Z easye: Thanks for the peer review.
2017-01-16T17:11:32Z beach: Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. :(
2017-01-16T17:11:53Z easye: It is helpful for you to understand my question.  That is 90% of the game...
2017-01-16T17:12:02Z easye: Now, I understand my question better.
2017-01-16T17:12:31Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:13:45Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:13:46Z easye: I bet COMPILE-OP has some specials I can introspect.
2017-01-16T17:13:52Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-16T17:14:59Z loke: easye: You can, actually.
2017-01-16T17:15:07Z loke: easye: Oh wait. not.
2017-01-16T17:15:23Z easye: I could invoke COMPILE-OP, and observe it.
2017-01-16T17:16:05Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T17:17:23Z loke: easye: Hmm... I was thinking backwards. You can find the path of a system, but not the system from a path,
2017-01-16T17:18:23Z malice`: easye: actually I believe this should be doable, but might be slow.
2017-01-16T17:18:39Z easye: I just need to get the value once.
2017-01-16T17:18:57Z revdan joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:19:05Z easye: But then all my ASDF:SYSTEM-RELATIVE-PATHNAME for non-Lisp resources in a given ASDF system become "portable"
2017-01-16T17:19:25Z easye: (as long as the referenced artifact is also copied)
2017-01-16T17:20:05Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:20:10Z isoraqathedh quit (Quit: Verhatenad!)
2017-01-16T17:20:33Z isoraqathedh joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:23:36Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T17:27:16Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:31:03Z bpf quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-16T17:31:06Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:31:17Z bpf joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:31:54Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:33:47Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:34:20Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T17:34:36Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-16T17:36:36Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T17:37:59Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:39:31Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-16T17:41:47Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-16T17:42:17Z sellout-1 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:42:18Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T17:42:36Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T17:47:51Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:50:57Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:51:06Z nowhereman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T17:52:02Z malice` quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-16T17:56:04Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-16T17:59:45Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-16T17:59:50Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:02:19Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:03:10Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:03:51Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:03:56Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:04:05Z revdan quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-16T18:04:36Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 249 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:04:56Z itruslove quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:05:13Z ogamita quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:06:35Z sellout-1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:07:29Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:11:19Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:11:25Z sellout-1 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:12:02Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:14:19Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T18:14:45Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:15:05Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:15:32Z nowhere_man quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-16T18:17:01Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:17:38Z itruslove joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:20:57Z nowhereman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T18:21:33Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:21:48Z pierpa` quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-16T18:22:11Z pierpa quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-16T18:22:42Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:23:52Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:24:09Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:29:14Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:29:38Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:30:11Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:30:15Z scymtym: flip214: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336756
2017-01-16T18:33:20Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:34:46Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:35:41Z sellout-1 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:36:31Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:39:11Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:43:09Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:44:35Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-16T18:44:57Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:45:04Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:46:08Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:46:56Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:47:08Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:49:58Z flip214: scymtym: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336756#2
2017-01-16T18:50:53Z flip214: is what I've been using. but thanks for your version ;)
2017-01-16T18:50:56Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:51:57Z loke: flip214: You use that to find all the licenses of librariaes you depend on? Neat.
2017-01-16T18:52:55Z flip214: loke: yeah... and I'm doing PRs to get the :license information into the ASD files
2017-01-16T18:52:59Z flip214: any help is welcome!
2017-01-16T18:53:26Z cthulhum quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-16T18:54:11Z pjb: I just use com.informatimago.tools.manifest:asdf-system-license
2017-01-16T18:54:29Z scymtym: flip214: that's neat as well. probably more robust as well
2017-01-16T18:54:35Z pjb: Notice: not only quicklisp systems have licences, but also asdf systems that are not in quicklisp.
2017-01-16T18:56:05Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:56:18Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-16T18:56:34Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:57:05Z flip214: pjb: do you have a case that might influence distributing?
2017-01-16T18:57:18Z flip214: ah, ASDF itself isn't mentioned... is that one of the cases you're talking about?
2017-01-16T18:58:03Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:58:32Z pjb: flip214: well, you merged two functions in one: enumerating all the systems in arguments with their dependencies, on one hand, and getting the license of an asdf system on another hand.
2017-01-16T18:59:04Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-16T18:59:36Z pjb: Now, What my function add is a map from some common systems that don't have their license set in asd, but that are distributed under a specific license.
2017-01-16T18:59:36Z flip214: yeah, so I can easily find out whether there's any system whose license is incompatible with the intended usage. what's wrong with that?
2017-01-16T18:59:54Z pjb: Oops, you merged THREE functions into one!
2017-01-16T18:59:57Z pjb: It's not modular!
2017-01-16T19:00:18Z flip214: And I even store that in my .sbclrc!! (so that I can find it again.)
2017-01-16T19:00:30Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T19:00:43Z pjb: flip214: and so you lose it when you switch to abcl, ecl or ccl?
2017-01-16T19:00:56Z flip214: I may have copied it over....
2017-01-16T19:01:04Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:01:08Z pjb: oops, code duplication?
2017-01-16T19:01:09Z flip214: but as long as I compile the same sources, the result will be the same, I believe.
2017-01-16T19:01:35Z pjb: You should put it in a library!
2017-01-16T19:01:45Z pjb: and load that library from the various rc files.
2017-01-16T19:01:49Z flip214: pjb: I might have made my ~/.abclrc a symlink to ~/.sbclrc ....
2017-01-16T19:02:07Z flip214: yeah, so many things that could be separate libraries...
2017-01-16T19:02:13Z pjb: this is not wise, since there may be some implementation specific settings there.  I load a ~/rc/common.lisp from them.
2017-01-16T19:02:27Z flip214: TBH, this one thing I'd try to get into ASDF or QL, instead of making a new library just for it.
2017-01-16T19:02:45Z flip214: pjb: thank you for sharing your concerns. They're well received!
2017-01-16T19:02:53Z pjb: All right.  But then it's even more important to modularize.
2017-01-16T19:03:15Z flip214: right now I'd doing PRs to get :license in the various ASDF that don't have it yet
2017-01-16T19:03:33Z pjb: (you can always provide a function doing the collection and validation, but let the users of the library have access to separate functions).
2017-01-16T19:03:40Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:03:41Z pjb: flip214: good move!
2017-01-16T19:04:04Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:04:21Z flip214: thanks
2017-01-16T19:06:21Z sellout- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T19:06:55Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T19:07:51Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:10:27Z paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:11:53Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-16T19:13:10Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:13:26Z malice: I'm getting heap overflow in SBCL. How can I inspect that and see what causes it/where does my program run out of memory?
2017-01-16T19:13:41Z malice: Or what can I use to help mefix that.
2017-01-16T19:13:44Z malice: s/mefix/me fix
2017-01-16T19:13:51Z pjb: (room t)
2017-01-16T19:14:01Z pjb: should give you some hint.
2017-01-16T19:14:31Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-16T19:16:10Z malice: in lldb?
2017-01-16T19:16:21Z pjb: no, before!
2017-01-16T19:16:42Z pjb: in the repl.
2017-01-16T19:16:47Z malice: I've got a list of memory characteristics.
2017-01-16T19:16:53Z pjb: You can also call it in a loop, and see how it evolves.
2017-01-16T19:16:55Z malice: Should I put it in my program too?
2017-01-16T19:16:56Z malice: okay
2017-01-16T19:16:56Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-16T19:17:01Z pjb: You may.
2017-01-16T19:18:54Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:19:41Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-16T19:21:01Z yeticry joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:21:50Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T19:26:19Z slyrus joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:26:55Z malice: wow
2017-01-16T19:27:07Z malice: lesson learned: never use mapcar when you don't need a result.
2017-01-16T19:28:51Z phoe: malice: ...
2017-01-16T19:29:06Z jackdaniel: malice: mapc is non-consing equivalent
2017-01-16T19:29:08Z phoe: was that the source of your heap issues?
2017-01-16T19:29:15Z malice: yes
2017-01-16T19:29:26Z malice: I replaced mapcar with map nil
2017-01-16T19:29:31Z malice: and now everything's beautiful
2017-01-16T19:29:36Z phoe: malice: mapc, as jackdaniel said
2017-01-16T19:29:40Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T19:29:40Z phoe: clhs mapc
2017-01-16T19:29:41Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm
2017-01-16T19:29:46Z phoe: or map nil, no problem.
2017-01-16T19:30:04Z malice: I was actually double stupid
2017-01-16T19:30:09Z malice: because i ran mapcar inside mapcar
2017-01-16T19:30:12Z malice: well, oops
2017-01-16T19:30:20Z phoe: looks like a cons story
2017-01-16T19:30:27Z pjb: Yep, O(n^2) space.
2017-01-16T19:30:40Z malice: Yeah, what does SETF return though?
2017-01-16T19:30:48Z pjb: the last value assigned.
2017-01-16T19:30:51Z pjb: (normally)
2017-01-16T19:31:01Z jackdaniel: you must be cartographer ;)
2017-01-16T19:31:07Z pjb: It depends on the defsetf of the last place.
2017-01-16T19:31:27Z malice: Good to know that it was just me being dumb.
2017-01-16T19:31:32Z slyrus_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:31:32Z malice: Thanks for the room, pjb
2017-01-16T19:31:44Z jackdaniel: last values° assigned
2017-01-16T19:31:50Z pjb: Right.
2017-01-16T19:32:43Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-16T19:33:26Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-16T19:33:27Z slyrus_ is now known as slyrus
2017-01-16T19:33:49Z yeticry joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:35:02Z malice: I want to load a potentially large file to process it
2017-01-16T19:35:11Z malice: I believe I will need to store its in memory anyway
2017-01-16T19:35:30Z malice: I want to keep it in vector to make access faster
2017-01-16T19:35:34Z malice: Is that a good idea?
2017-01-16T19:35:40Z pjb: You may want to choose a compact representation.
2017-01-16T19:35:53Z malice: What compact representation?
2017-01-16T19:35:53Z pjb: So indeed, using vectors is a good direction.
2017-01-16T19:36:06Z pjb: What is in this file?
2017-01-16T19:36:16Z malice: Text.
2017-01-16T19:36:27Z malice: words?
2017-01-16T19:36:29Z malice: tokens.
2017-01-16T19:36:31Z pjb: eg. string are vectors of character that take 32-bit in sbcl.
2017-01-16T19:36:47Z pjb: So a text file (ASCII or utf-8) will take 4 times the space in RAM!
2017-01-16T19:36:53Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:36:57Z malice: that sounds scary
2017-01-16T19:37:02Z pjb: You may prefer to keep it as a vector of octets utf-8 encoded.
2017-01-16T19:37:03Z malice: it's gonna be utf-8 file
2017-01-16T19:37:19Z pjb: Of course that means that now you have to deal with utf-8 encoding, you cannot just index characters.
2017-01-16T19:37:28Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T19:37:28Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-16T19:37:34Z jackdaniel: alexandria has read-file-into-byte-vector and read-file-into-string
2017-01-16T19:38:13Z malice: I have to be able to split the line at spaces, and I will be using words as keys in hash-table(hash-set).
2017-01-16T19:38:19Z pjb: Cf. Accessors binary-file-contents text-file-contents etc in com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file
2017-01-16T19:38:23Z norfumpit quit (Quit: norfumpit)
2017-01-16T19:38:38Z pjb: malice: you can still find 32 in a vector of octets!
2017-01-16T19:38:43Z pjb: or position 32 rather.
2017-01-16T19:39:08Z jackdaniel: malice: I would read the file in chunks if the processing is sequential and it may be processed that way
2017-01-16T19:39:16Z jackdaniel: i.e each line is a separate data set
2017-01-16T19:39:21Z malice: jackdaniel: unfortunately it isn't.
2017-01-16T19:39:28Z pjb: see for example com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.ascii
2017-01-16T19:39:34Z malice: I need to know how many unique words are there in the second file
2017-01-16T19:39:44Z malice: on it
2017-01-16T19:40:06Z norfumpit joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:40:32Z pjb: now, in English words, there's only about 3 or 4 bits of information per letters. This means that you can represent works with much smaller numbers than the equivalent vector of octets, not mentionning STRING.
2017-01-16T19:40:48Z pjb: On the other hand, when you switch to numbers, you have the same size (fixnum) for all words.
2017-01-16T19:41:09Z pjb: s/works/words/
2017-01-16T19:42:34Z malice: I'm not really fluent in file formats and different encodings.
2017-01-16T19:42:40Z malice: I hate that part of text processing to be honest.
2017-01-16T19:42:55Z malice: What you mean is that I could write a fast version, but it would be limited to certain encoding, right?
2017-01-16T19:43:06Z malice: and my letters would all occupy a fixed space
2017-01-16T19:44:02Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-16T19:44:50Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:45:24Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:46:02Z puchacz_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-16T19:46:13Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:47:25Z Bike: more like memory-thrifty than vast. version
2017-01-16T19:47:29Z Bike: fast*
2017-01-16T19:47:51Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:48:09Z Bike: if you used five bits per character for the english alphabet plus punctuation, you could have six characters for every utf32 character. but it would be a bit slower, likely.
2017-01-16T19:48:41Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T19:48:55Z Bike: you shouldn't need to worry about that so much, utf8 is reasonably efficient. should be one byte for most characters in english text
2017-01-16T19:49:36Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T19:49:44Z jackdaniel: if you only check if word is unique, you don't have to store all text, just words
2017-01-16T19:50:00Z jackdaniel: so you may process the text word by word
2017-01-16T19:50:11Z jackdaniel: (unless I misunderstood the problem)
2017-01-16T19:50:29Z pjb: malice: Well, the question is whether your text can be Chinese, Japanese, Russian or anything else?  Or is it just English, or French, or Portuguese?
2017-01-16T19:50:44Z loke quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-16T19:51:47Z pjb: Also, while loading the file, you could want to internalize words, but now instead of having 3 or 4 bytes per word (plus one for space), you'd use 8 byte per 64-bit pointer to the interned words!
2017-01-16T19:52:41Z pjb: If you don't have accented letters, you can use the msb of each octet to represent end of word, so now you don't have to store the spaces ;-) (like in the IBM-1401).
2017-01-16T19:52:57Z revdan joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:53:16Z pjb: malice: you don't have to hate this: thanks to lisp, you can abstract those details, and still write normal text processing code.
2017-01-16T19:53:21Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:57:06Z ChrisOei quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-16T19:57:23Z _paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T19:58:41Z malice: pjb: the text might be of any language
2017-01-16T19:58:47Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-16T19:59:07Z malice: (well, it's a program for uni... it won't have any "exotic" langs like japanese, but ideally it would handle every language)
2017-01-16T20:00:20Z malice: jackdaniel: not that simple. After that I still need to go line after line and do some calculations. I could optimize it a bit, but it would increase the complexity greatly
2017-01-16T20:00:24Z puchacz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T20:00:35Z pjb: I hear that Chinese doesn't use whitespace.  I believe cutting Chinese words is complex.
2017-01-16T20:00:56Z malice: Yes, that's why I won't be using Chinese or Japanese as an example.
2017-01-16T20:01:21Z malice: brb 20min
2017-01-16T20:02:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T20:05:31Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T20:05:43Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T20:08:24Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-16T20:13:57Z jurov: malice: if you mmap (it's in osicat), you don't have to worry about memory usage for the text itself, OS will manage it. Worst case, if you do lots of random access, it will be slower.
2017-01-16T20:14:33Z prole: Hie, I have just install a new version of sbcl (1.3.13), and slime don't recompiling at the swank-c-p-c.lisp file
2017-01-16T20:14:53Z prole: the error is : "OPERATION instances must only be created through MAKE-OPERATION."
2017-01-16T20:15:23Z jackdaniel: some implementations have mmap natively
2017-01-16T20:15:42Z jackdaniel: prole: it's asdf fault (recent change)
2017-01-16T20:16:03Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-16T20:16:09Z prole: What should I do? I tried to delet everything and reinstall but nothing... Should I downgrade sbcl?
2017-01-16T20:16:12Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T20:16:16Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-16T20:16:47Z jackdaniel: oh, so new sbcl bundles asdf 3.2. Maybe upstream swank has already fix for that?
2017-01-16T20:16:58Z diogofranco quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-16T20:17:29Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-16T20:17:40Z prole: latest commit at the github page of slime is 09 november
2017-01-16T20:18:11Z jackdaniel: then replace calls of (make-instance 'asdf:operation…) with (asdf:make-operation …)
2017-01-16T20:18:19Z jackdaniel: in swank by yourself
2017-01-16T20:18:29Z prole: All right, I'll do that
2017-01-16T20:18:30Z prole: thanks a lot
2017-01-16T20:18:42Z jackdaniel: sure
2017-01-16T20:19:38Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-16T20:22:14Z malice: jurov: Thanks, I'll consider it
2017-01-16T20:22:57Z _paul0 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-16T20:23:24Z hhdave quit (Quit: hhdave)
2017-01-16T20:24:48Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T20:25:47Z mada quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-16T20:26:03Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-16T20:26:05Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-16T20:30:35Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T20:32:16Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T20:32:17Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T20:32:50Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T20:38:16Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T20:39:28Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T20:39:59Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T20:40:54Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-16T20:47:05Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T20:49:12Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-16T20:49:14Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T20:59:20Z sellout-1 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:00:28Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T21:01:55Z rumbler3_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T21:02:16Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T21:02:31Z cods quit (Changing host)
2017-01-16T21:02:31Z cods joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:06:42Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:07:31Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T21:08:19Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:14:48Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T21:16:12Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-16T21:16:38Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:17:51Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-16T21:18:59Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:21:28Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:22:43Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:24:42Z mouldysammich left #lisp
2017-01-16T21:26:12Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:30:11Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:32:16Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T21:33:14Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-16T21:34:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:36:41Z Atomic_x87XA joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:39:24Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T21:39:25Z Atomic_x87XA quit (Quit: AtomicIRC: The nuclear option.)
2017-01-16T21:46:27Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:46:37Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-16T21:49:18Z binghe joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:53:35Z rumbler3_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T21:54:52Z deank quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T21:57:51Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:58:57Z gabnet joined #lisp
2017-01-16T21:59:22Z kodnin: How can I check the local variables and use them in expressions in the SBCL debugger? I just learned how to use `(break "foo")` to enter the debugger manually. But Google won't help me out on this question.
2017-01-16T21:59:28Z wooden_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T22:00:28Z Oddity quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T22:01:43Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-16T22:01:48Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T22:02:25Z Bike: if you type 'help' at the prompt you'll get a list of stuff
2017-01-16T22:02:42Z Bike: partway down you'll see that (sb-debug:arg n) returns the nth arg
2017-01-16T22:02:53Z Bike: and list-locals gives you a printout of what the locals are
2017-01-16T22:03:29Z wooden_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:03:29Z Bourne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T22:04:07Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T22:04:16Z Bourne joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:04:25Z Bike: ah, and if you're at high DEBUG you can refer to them by name with VAR as well
2017-01-16T22:06:02Z gabnet quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-16T22:06:22Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:06:41Z kodnin: Bike: `list-locals` works. `(sb-debug:arg n)`, where `n` is the name of the local variable,not.
2017-01-16T22:06:49Z Bike: n is a number.
2017-01-16T22:07:00Z Bike: sb-debug:var if you want the name.
2017-01-16T22:07:26Z Bike: sbcl doesn't save names except at high debug levels (declare (optimize (debug 3)))
2017-01-16T22:08:20Z kodnin: Bike: ah, and they are zero-indexed.
2017-01-16T22:08:20Z Bourne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-16T22:08:35Z Bike: naturally.
2017-01-16T22:08:47Z Bike: they should be the numbers in list-locals, too.
2017-01-16T22:10:24Z Oddity joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:10:27Z Oddity quit (Changing host)
2017-01-16T22:10:27Z Oddity joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:10:35Z kodnin: Bike: `(sb-debug:arg 0)` works for me. `(sb-debug:var "n")` doesn't.
2017-01-16T22:10:42Z kodnin: Bike: but I think I figured it out.
2017-01-16T22:10:53Z kodnin: Bike: You need to do "N" or 'n.
2017-01-16T22:11:10Z kodnin: Bike: where n is the name of the local variable.
2017-01-16T22:11:11Z Bike: lisp symbols usuall have upcased names, yeah
2017-01-16T22:11:54Z prole quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-16T22:12:26Z kodnin: Bike: wow, that's a weird experience. `list-locals` is a debugger command and therefore not a regular Lisp expression?
2017-01-16T22:12:38Z Bike: seems so
2017-01-16T22:12:59Z kodnin: Bike: I mean, unlike `(sb-debug:arg 0)`.
2017-01-16T22:13:17Z kodnin: Bike: thanks, that helps a lot.
2017-01-16T22:13:24Z Bike: yes, that's a function, so that you can use it in expressiosn like you wanted
2017-01-16T22:16:16Z kodnin: Bike: ah, that explains why n had to be quoted.
2017-01-16T22:16:40Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:16:58Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T22:18:48Z sellout-1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-16T22:18:59Z PuercoPop: Has looked into cl-quickcheck vs check-it for a comparison of both libraries?
2017-01-16T22:19:23Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:22:35Z kodnin quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-16T22:23:02Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:25:56Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:26:33Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T22:27:11Z sharkteeth joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:31:50Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T22:36:00Z snits quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T22:37:32Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T22:38:08Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-16T22:38:39Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:39:34Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:41:19Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:41:47Z lisp99 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:41:48Z jibanes quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T22:42:19Z lisp99: hello anybody mind explaining the difference between using :foo and #:foo in package symbols?
2017-01-16T22:43:13Z pillton: (symbol-package :foo) => #<package "KEYWORD">   (symbol-package '#:foo) => nil
2017-01-16T22:43:46Z pillton: (eql :foo :foo) => T and (eql '#:foo '#:foo) => NIL
2017-01-16T22:44:14Z lisp99: i mean i know that #: makes the symbol uninterned
2017-01-16T22:44:19Z phoe: lisp99: using #: syntax does not pollute the KEYWORD package with unnecessary symbols and is considered somewhat cleaner.
2017-01-16T22:44:53Z phoe: Because if you type :my-weird-package anywhere in Lisp, the reader will automatically intern it. Boom, one symbol more in KEYWORD package that will stay around forever.
2017-01-16T22:45:28Z lisp99: symbols never get gc'd?
2017-01-16T22:45:57Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:46:03Z xuxuru quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-16T22:46:56Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T22:47:13Z pillton: Uninterned symbols are good values for the eof-value argument of READ and friends.
2017-01-16T22:47:44Z Bike: interned symbols are always accessible (with do-all-symbols and such)
2017-01-16T22:47:46Z PuercoPop: lisp99: The consequences are undefined for uninterning a symbol from the keyword package
2017-01-16T22:48:52Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-16T22:49:18Z shifty joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:50:58Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T22:51:11Z PuercoPop: Also slime/sly uses uninterned symbols when exporting a symbol 'C-c x', so using uninterned symbols would result in a uniform style
2017-01-16T22:53:19Z lisp99: is it good idea to split a package into multiple files
2017-01-16T22:55:08Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:55:37Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-16T22:57:39Z lambda-smith quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-16T23:00:38Z BusFactor1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-16T23:01:16Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:02:36Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T23:02:46Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-16T23:03:09Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-16T23:04:18Z mfranzwa joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:05:07Z phoe: lisp99: multiple files? what do you mean?
2017-01-16T23:05:13Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:05:23Z phoe: when you have a lot of code, it splits itself into files naturally.
2017-01-16T23:05:48Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:06:46Z PuercoPop: lisp99: yes, the most common way is to have package.lisp with just the defpackage form and the functionality split across multiple files.
2017-01-16T23:06:49Z mfranzwa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T23:06:58Z lisp99: phoe: i meant multiple files with same in-package name
2017-01-16T23:07:06Z mfranzwa joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:07:14Z pillton: lisp99: Sure.
2017-01-16T23:08:28Z lisp99: thanks
2017-01-16T23:09:55Z pillton: It would be better if you could specify it in the system definition.
2017-01-16T23:11:24Z revdan quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-16T23:13:42Z lisp99: any examples where non-hygenic macros are desired
2017-01-16T23:13:56Z lisp99: so far i see gensyms in every macro
2017-01-16T23:13:59Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T23:15:24Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:15:48Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-16T23:16:28Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T23:16:51Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:18:02Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:19:51Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:22:43Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-16T23:25:58Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-16T23:26:10Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:26:14Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:27:18Z slyrus_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:28:12Z pjb quit (Quit: Be seeing you!)
2017-01-16T23:28:50Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-16T23:28:57Z slyrus_ is now known as slyrus
2017-01-16T23:30:01Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:33:00Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-16T23:36:11Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:41:27Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:44:31Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:46:15Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:46:15Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:46:20Z kodnin left #lisp
2017-01-16T23:46:20Z quazimod2 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:46:27Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-16T23:46:28Z quazimod3 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:48:00Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-16T23:48:32Z ryanwatkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T23:48:53Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:49:23Z mfiano quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-16T23:49:23Z mfiano` joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:50:06Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:50:33Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:51:26Z quazimod4 joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:52:27Z loke` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-16T23:52:44Z loke` joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:53:46Z snits joined #lisp
2017-01-16T23:56:07Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-16T23:57:33Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-17T00:00:52Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-17T00:03:30Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T00:06:28Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-17T00:06:51Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-17T00:09:21Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T00:09:35Z jibanes joined #lisp
2017-01-17T00:10:47Z mvilleneuve quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T00:11:25Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-17T00:14:16Z bpf quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T00:18:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T00:21:29Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-17T00:22:05Z quazimod2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T00:22:05Z quazimod4 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T00:22:05Z quazimod1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T00:22:05Z quazimodo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T00:22:05Z quazimod3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T00:22:24Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-17T00:23:18Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-17T00:23:38Z malice: Can I get screwed over by GC?
2017-01-17T00:24:37Z malice: I've got a loop that, in each iteration, creates three hash-tables of the same size, processes the same data and modifies the same variables. Each iteration might change the values held in the variables, but after the first iteration the size should stay constant.
2017-01-17T00:24:47Z malice: And yet each iteration increases memory footprint to the point that my program crashes.
2017-01-17T00:24:51Z malice: Is this SBCL bug?
2017-01-17T00:29:27Z cromachina: can you provide a code sample?
2017-01-17T00:30:33Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-17T00:32:37Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-17T00:33:18Z malice: sure, just a sec
2017-01-17T00:35:52Z malice: You can see the code here https://github.com/MatthewRock/tau
2017-01-17T00:35:56Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-17T00:36:00Z malice: there's only one file and the main function's ibm-model-1
2017-01-17T00:36:05Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-17T00:36:37Z malice: cromachina: the heart is the (loop repeat iterations), and after printing (room t) just after the do, I can see that each iteration makes memory footprint grow
2017-01-17T00:37:27Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-17T00:37:29Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-17T00:40:16Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-17T00:41:53Z cromachina: the first thing that i noticed escapes the loop is the filling of so-called-t every iteration
2017-01-17T00:43:47Z malice: ?
2017-01-17T00:44:04Z malice: cromachina: do you mean that I set all the values in so-called-t each iteration?
2017-01-17T00:44:14Z cromachina: yeah
2017-01-17T00:46:21Z cromachina: there is also a lot of consing `(cons e f)` that looks like it can be done before entering the loop
2017-01-17T00:47:18Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-17T00:47:46Z malice: Well, that's how the algorithm works. I'm implementing IBM model 1(talking about refilling so-called-t)
2017-01-17T00:47:56Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-17T00:48:12Z malice: so-called-t actually changes during each iteration
2017-01-17T00:49:11Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T00:49:24Z malice: cromachina: I could set all the conses and keep them somewhere, but then I would have to get them and waste time
2017-01-17T00:49:33Z malice: plus I already know what cons would have to contain
2017-01-17T00:51:13Z Bike: you are talking about tau.lisp L33?
2017-01-17T00:51:46Z malice: yes?
2017-01-17T00:51:57Z malice: that's the loop that concerns me
2017-01-17T00:52:15Z Bike: just checking
2017-01-17T00:54:13Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-17T00:54:33Z malice: It's this algorithm btw
2017-01-17T00:54:34Z malice: http://mt-class.org/jhu/slides/lecture-ibm-model1.pdf
2017-01-17T00:54:35Z malice: slide 33
2017-01-17T00:54:42Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-17T00:56:13Z Bike: i don't see any stray garbage... huh.
2017-01-17T00:56:23Z malice: Yeah, because - I believe - there is not any.
2017-01-17T00:56:36Z cromachina: may want to use the profilers that come with sbcl
2017-01-17T00:56:38Z malice: When I analyzed the output from (room t) the memory footprint was actualy fluctuating
2017-01-17T00:56:51Z Bike: yeah, a better profile might help.
2017-01-17T00:56:54Z malice: meaning that it went down a bit once in a while
2017-01-17T00:57:13Z malice: which one? I don't really know how to interpret the output from sprof
2017-01-17T00:57:49Z malice: btw. having moved the s-total from the outer loop to the inner(L38 I believe) and removed initial s-total population improved things a bit
2017-01-17T00:57:49Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T00:57:59Z Bike: whichever works i guess
2017-01-17T00:58:01Z malice: (now I can run 100 iterations)
2017-01-17T00:58:06Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-17T00:58:07Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-17T01:00:42Z cromachina: you may also just be gathering a huge amount of space. may want to increase your maximum heap size
2017-01-17T01:00:49Z strelox quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T01:01:12Z malice: Oh, I am using buildapp to transform it into a binary executable
2017-01-17T01:01:23Z malice: and I set heap size to 4096 which should be in MB
2017-01-17T01:02:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T01:02:16Z slyrus_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T01:02:21Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-17T01:02:53Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-17T01:02:56Z slyrus_ is now known as slyrus
2017-01-17T01:04:24Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-17T01:06:04Z malice: cromachina: I believe the problem isn't me "gathering huge amount of space"
2017-01-17T01:06:30Z malice: as I said earlier, the first iteration iterates over all pairs of words that make sense and populates so-called-t
2017-01-17T01:06:37Z cromachina: sb-vm::memory-usage gives a more detailed breakdown
2017-01-17T01:06:50Z malice: each iteration that happens after that should have hash-tables of the same size
2017-01-17T01:07:00Z malice: and should not resize so-called-t
2017-01-17T01:07:08Z cromachina: use that after each iteration to see kind of data type is growing
2017-01-17T01:07:16Z Bike: it should not, but something has to be growing.
2017-01-17T01:08:35Z benny quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T01:08:46Z malice: It looks like simple-array-unsigned-byte-64 grows the most
2017-01-17T01:09:29Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T01:09:41Z malice: but as I said, not always. Right now it jumped down from 3,5kk to 2kk
2017-01-17T01:09:44Z malice: and it keeps going like that
2017-01-17T01:09:58Z cromachina: the statistical profiler should tell you what functions are invoking what constructors
2017-01-17T01:10:03Z malice: it looks as if the GC wasn't fast enough to start up
2017-01-17T01:10:05Z Bike: the underlying vectors for hash tables are those, i think.
2017-01-17T01:10:07Z malice: in between the calls
2017-01-17T01:10:31Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T01:11:38Z malice: this is how it looks like: http://ix.io/1Qgf
2017-01-17T01:11:46Z malice: (only total printed)
2017-01-17T01:12:03Z malice: idk, looks like it's just GC being too slow
2017-01-17T01:12:21Z cromachina: and when the GC fails to allocate, how big of an allocation is the failing one, and how much space is left?
2017-01-17T01:12:38Z benny joined #lisp
2017-01-17T01:13:41Z malice: I don't have exact figures right now because I've got a working program for 100 iterations
2017-01-17T01:13:55Z cromachina: i believe on some systems the collector is different, and wont move pages around. you can suffer negative effects from fragmentation
2017-01-17T01:14:12Z mfranzwa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T01:14:14Z malice: it would e.g. have 8MB, and requested was 8,1MB
2017-01-17T01:14:19Z malice: something like that
2017-01-17T01:14:24Z malice: let me try to check that
2017-01-17T01:14:38Z PuercoPop: malice: have you tried running the code in CCL?
2017-01-17T01:14:41Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-17T01:14:43Z malice: no
2017-01-17T01:15:08Z ryanwatkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T01:16:05Z malice: cromachina: 107839488 bytes available, 134217744 requested
2017-01-17T01:16:13Z PuercoPop: malice: I've only encountered once the problem is generating garbage to rapidly resulting in running out of memory in SBCL so I'm not really sure what is the best approach in those situations, but in my limited experience CCL's GC works really well at cleaning up short lived garbage
2017-01-17T01:16:21Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T01:16:42Z malice: PuercoPop: is it fast?
2017-01-17T01:17:56Z cromachina: that's a rather large chunk
2017-01-17T01:18:02Z cromachina: do you have the offending stack?
2017-01-17T01:18:23Z malice: You mean this funny table output?
2017-01-17T01:18:45Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-17T01:18:46Z malice: or stack trace?
2017-01-17T01:19:09Z malice: it breaks on make-hash-table
2017-01-17T01:19:16Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T01:20:23Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-17T01:22:31Z malice: Right now I've placed this snippet at the beginning of my code:
2017-01-17T01:22:36Z cromachina: can you paste a copy of the GC generation table that sometimes gets printed when allocation fails?
2017-01-17T01:22:37Z malice: (loop for i from 0 below 7 do (setf (sb-ext:generation-minimum-age-before-gc i) 0.4d0))
2017-01-17T01:22:42Z malice: and now the program does not crash
2017-01-17T01:23:06Z malice: actuallyi t just crashed
2017-01-17T01:23:09Z malice: it
2017-01-17T01:23:11Z cromachina: lol
2017-01-17T01:23:12Z malice: :v
2017-01-17T01:23:50Z malice: http://ix.io/1Qgj
2017-01-17T01:23:58Z malice: here's the GC table
2017-01-17T01:25:11Z vtomole: maybe the people over at #sbcl can help
2017-01-17T01:25:17Z malice: :)
2017-01-17T01:25:19Z malice: it's getting late
2017-01-17T01:25:24Z malice: actually it got late an hour ago
2017-01-17T01:25:38Z malice: I believe it's time to sleep; I will go back to the issue tomorrow
2017-01-17T01:26:10Z malice: Thanks for the help guys. I will come back tomorrow.
2017-01-17T01:26:12Z cromachina: you would first have to verify with some degree of confidence that it is infact an SBCL issue.. as suggested about using CCL
2017-01-17T01:26:15Z malice: If you come up with anything let me know :)
2017-01-17T01:26:21Z cromachina: no problem
2017-01-17T01:26:22Z malice: I will try CCL tomorrow.
2017-01-17T01:26:32Z malice: right now I'm almost a zombie
2017-01-17T01:26:36Z malice: Thanks cromachina and Bike
2017-01-17T01:26:54Z malice: Good night!
2017-01-17T01:27:19Z Patzy joined #lisp
2017-01-17T01:27:54Z paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T01:27:54Z paul0 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-17T01:28:51Z Bike: good night.
2017-01-17T01:28:58Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T01:30:09Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T01:30:22Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-17T01:30:52Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-17T01:32:01Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T01:36:56Z dddddd quit (Quit: Hasta otra..)
2017-01-17T01:43:40Z sharkteeth quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-17T01:43:52Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T01:44:06Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-17T01:48:31Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T01:48:45Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-17T01:48:58Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T01:54:57Z binghe quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [SeaMonkey 2.46/20161213183751])
2017-01-17T01:57:37Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T02:02:05Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T02:08:54Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T02:11:40Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T02:13:05Z azzamsa_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T02:17:23Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T02:17:52Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-17T02:19:36Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-17T02:26:33Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-17T02:29:06Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T02:29:28Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T02:30:20Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T02:35:35Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-17T02:38:38Z dpg quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-17T02:42:03Z Patzy joined #lisp
2017-01-17T02:44:45Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-17T02:45:01Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T02:45:45Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T02:49:10Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T02:49:20Z fulon quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)
2017-01-17T02:53:17Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-17T02:58:55Z S1ohy quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2017-01-17T03:02:04Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-17T03:03:59Z jamtho quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T03:04:21Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:04:51Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:06:33Z vicfred joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:09:25Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:14:31Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:18:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T03:22:36Z libreman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T03:24:54Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:28:19Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:30:30Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:32:31Z jameser quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-17T03:33:19Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T03:34:17Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:36:14Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:37:13Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:39:27Z lonjil joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:45:18Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:45:19Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:46:04Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T03:47:25Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T03:48:28Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:50:50Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T03:54:06Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-17T03:54:11Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-17T03:55:22Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T03:55:45Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T03:57:17Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-17T03:57:41Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T03:57:53Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T04:00:02Z yerbaBuena joined #lisp
2017-01-17T04:04:46Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T04:15:01Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-17T04:16:15Z travv0` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T04:19:36Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T04:24:38Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T04:27:40Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-17T04:30:19Z azzamsa_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-17T04:32:28Z azzamsa_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T04:32:55Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T04:40:37Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-17T04:40:45Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-17T04:43:03Z circ-user-QcIM5 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T04:44:43Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T04:46:00Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T04:52:38Z yerbaBuena quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T05:00:12Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-17T05:01:50Z zacts joined #lisp
2017-01-17T05:04:24Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T05:06:56Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-17T05:07:40Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T05:07:41Z azzamsa_ quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-17T05:08:50Z nullx002- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T05:09:19Z azzamsa_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T05:12:44Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-17T05:15:04Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T05:18:09Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T05:18:28Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T05:19:17Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T05:22:03Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-17T05:24:51Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T05:26:33Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-17T05:31:01Z nullx002- joined #lisp
2017-01-17T05:33:33Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-17T05:35:15Z madariaga joined #lisp
2017-01-17T05:36:17Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T05:38:26Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-17T05:41:23Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T05:41:24Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-17T05:43:50Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-17T05:44:20Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T05:46:05Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T05:47:43Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-17T05:48:07Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T05:49:34Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-17T05:53:44Z tmtwd quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-17T05:59:08Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-17T06:04:28Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-17T06:04:34Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:12:19Z dmaj joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:15:35Z jameser_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:16:10Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T06:18:35Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T06:20:39Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:24:05Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:27:40Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:29:34Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T06:31:03Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:35:59Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-17T06:36:37Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-17T06:38:24Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-17T06:38:51Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-17T06:38:53Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:39:49Z tjklemz_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:40:10Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T06:40:23Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:40:36Z safe quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T06:42:17Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:43:53Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-17T06:43:55Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:44:19Z tjklemz_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-17T06:47:43Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-17T06:48:34Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:48:44Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-17T06:49:32Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:50:08Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:51:02Z madariaga quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-17T06:55:08Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-17T06:55:55Z nowolfer quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-17T07:07:53Z jackdaniel: Xach: how do you collect dependencies for ql-dist? Manually, or maybe you load all asd files and then you call system-depends-on? If the latter, you probably compute intersection of results from at least two implementations, to avoid things like sb-posix in there, right?
2017-01-17T07:13:36Z megalography quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T07:18:16Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T07:18:58Z pillton quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-17T07:21:28Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-17T07:21:36Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T07:23:39Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T07:24:40Z wildbartty joined #lisp
2017-01-17T07:26:13Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T07:28:34Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-17T07:29:57Z Josh_2 quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-17T07:30:45Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T07:38:40Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T07:39:26Z Oddity quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-17T07:47:18Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-17T07:48:31Z jameser_ quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-17T07:49:31Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-17T07:50:23Z Bike: can you LOOP over hash keys and values at the same time?
2017-01-17T07:50:38Z wildbartty quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-17T07:50:48Z beach: Yes.
2017-01-17T07:50:52Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-17T07:50:56Z Bike: how?
2017-01-17T07:51:08Z beach: clhs loop
2017-01-17T07:51:08Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm
2017-01-17T07:51:37Z Bike: oh, using
2017-01-17T07:51:38Z Bike: thanks
2017-01-17T07:51:39Z beach: (loop for key being each hash-key of table using hash-value value.
2017-01-17T07:51:42Z beach: ...)
2017-01-17T07:53:20Z Bike: no type declaration for the using'd one. weird.
2017-01-17T07:55:14Z beach: Yes, that's strange.
2017-01-17T07:55:53Z Bike: unrelatedly, has anyone ever used set-exclusive-or?
2017-01-17T07:57:00Z beach: Why do you ask?
2017-01-17T07:57:16Z Bike: because i'm throwing it in for the bitset thing because it's easy.
2017-01-17T07:57:43Z georg joined #lisp
2017-01-17T07:58:08Z georg quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-17T07:58:41Z beach: I don't see the connection.
2017-01-17T07:59:14Z Bike: i'm implementing bit set versions of the CL set functions, that is union, intersection, set-difference
2017-01-17T07:59:23Z Bike: and i checked the chapter and hey, there's set-exclusive-or too.
2017-01-17T07:59:55Z beach: Common Lisp already has functions for that on bit vectors.
2017-01-17T08:00:17Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:00:33Z Bike: i added more structure to facilitate using it as a set.
2017-01-17T08:05:51Z Oddity joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:06:31Z wildbartty joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:09:45Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:14:29Z siery joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:15:12Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T08:16:28Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:20:50Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:21:14Z Oddity quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-17T08:22:04Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:27:39Z o1e9 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:32:34Z libre-man joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:35:05Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T08:36:50Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:37:05Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:41:49Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:48:06Z Oddity joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:48:06Z Oddity quit (Changing host)
2017-01-17T08:48:06Z Oddity joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:50:23Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-17T08:54:19Z revdan joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:54:23Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T08:54:53Z raynold is now known as raynold_
2017-01-17T08:56:43Z bpf joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:04:12Z revdan quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-17T09:04:29Z revdan joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:04:59Z william joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:04:59Z william is now known as williamyaoh
2017-01-17T09:05:35Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T09:06:53Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:07:03Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:08:37Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:11:17Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-17T09:12:45Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T09:12:48Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T09:13:58Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:14:30Z Quadrescence quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T09:14:49Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:18:01Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-17T09:18:50Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T09:18:53Z flamebeard_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:18:56Z flamebeard quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T09:20:07Z snits quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-17T09:20:44Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-17T09:21:34Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:22:14Z snits joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:24:29Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:27:40Z flamebeard_ is now known as flamebeard
2017-01-17T09:29:06Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:34:35Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T09:34:43Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:35:25Z wildbartty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T09:38:03Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:39:57Z azzamsa_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T09:40:06Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:41:03Z itruslove quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-17T09:51:30Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-17T09:52:05Z Guest23983 quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2017-01-17T09:54:55Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:55:13Z megalography joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:55:23Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:55:25Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-17T09:55:55Z megalography left #lisp
2017-01-17T09:56:25Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:58:00Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:58:16Z itruslove joined #lisp
2017-01-17T09:58:50Z nullx002- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T09:59:13Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T10:00:47Z giraffe joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:01:09Z giraffe is now known as Guest316
2017-01-17T10:01:49Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:02:30Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-17T10:04:07Z nrp3c quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T10:05:35Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T10:06:21Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:08:14Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:09:25Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T10:10:15Z angavrilov quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2017-01-17T10:10:48Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:12:15Z lisp583 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:14:08Z lisp583 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-17T10:15:00Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:19:30Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T10:19:35Z nullx002- joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:21:16Z flip214 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T10:25:18Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:26:28Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-17T10:28:21Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:29:21Z flip214 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:29:21Z flip214 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-17T10:29:21Z flip214 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:30:04Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-17T10:31:10Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:32:32Z siery quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2017-01-17T10:32:50Z whartung quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T10:33:13Z whartung joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:33:58Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-17T10:37:04Z karswell` joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:37:20Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-17T10:40:51Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:44:18Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:44:24Z Guest26 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:44:41Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T10:48:14Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T10:58:34Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T11:04:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T11:05:23Z malice` joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:06:01Z malice`: hi all
2017-01-17T11:06:10Z nrp3c quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T11:08:11Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:10:07Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:15:55Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:19:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T11:19:39Z nowolfer joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:23:01Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:23:44Z flip214 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T11:25:33Z flip214 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:25:45Z flip214 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-17T11:25:45Z flip214 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:26:21Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:27:52Z rszeno joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:29:37Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:33:39Z lisp99 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-17T11:34:15Z Xach: jackdaniel: i load everything and carefully watch what gets loaded and take notes.
2017-01-17T11:34:47Z Xach: jackdaniel: I avoid sb-posix with a warning (to myself) after compiling that info
2017-01-17T11:34:56Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:35:13Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-17T11:39:16Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-17T11:40:04Z rjid quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-17T11:42:26Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-17T11:44:21Z jackdaniel: thanks
2017-01-17T11:49:35Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T11:50:36Z megalography joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:52:22Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:55:31Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:56:29Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-17T11:57:14Z alienbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T11:59:50Z megalography quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-17T12:00:57Z prole left #lisp
2017-01-17T12:02:43Z Xach: that's not quite accurate, but there are things that exclude sb-*
2017-01-17T12:03:21Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-17T12:05:38Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-17T12:06:30Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T12:07:40Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T12:13:28Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-17T12:13:44Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-17T12:14:40Z megalography joined #lisp
2017-01-17T12:18:54Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-17T12:21:36Z Guest26 quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-17T12:23:30Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-17T12:25:52Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-17T12:26:48Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-17T12:27:57Z megalography quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T12:29:05Z thinkpad quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T12:30:16Z thinkpad joined #lisp
2017-01-17T12:36:35Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T12:36:39Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-17T12:39:46Z raynold_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-17T12:40:09Z kodnin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T12:40:25Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-17T12:41:55Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-17T12:41:55Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Changing host)
2017-01-17T12:41:55Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-17T12:42:27Z megalography joined #lisp
2017-01-17T12:50:37Z alienbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T12:58:37Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:01:56Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T13:02:00Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:03:33Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-17T13:03:43Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-17T13:04:00Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:04:00Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Changing host)
2017-01-17T13:04:00Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:06:27Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T13:08:02Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:08:41Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T13:09:21Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:09:58Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:15:15Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-17T13:16:15Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-17T13:17:34Z loke quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T13:17:47Z georg-AC joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:17:57Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T13:19:34Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T13:19:40Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-17T13:20:59Z georg-AC is now known as JuanDaugherty
2017-01-17T13:21:10Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:22:28Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:23:24Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-17T13:25:49Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:26:04Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:26:09Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:27:53Z Denommus joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:29:17Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:30:03Z prole: Is asdf shipped with quicklisp? or is it shipped with SBCL?
2017-01-17T13:30:25Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:30:32Z Xach: prole: if you use sbcl, it comes with a new ASDF, and that is what quicklisp uses
2017-01-17T13:30:40Z Denommus` joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:30:49Z Xach: prole: only if your system has no asdf at all does quicklisp bring its own asdf
2017-01-17T13:30:49Z prole: So if I downgrade sbcl, do I downgrade asdf?
2017-01-17T13:31:09Z Xach: prole: hard to say. asdf does not change frequently in sbcl. it depends how far you downgrade.
2017-01-17T13:31:18Z Xach: prole: is there a particular version you need?
2017-01-17T13:31:29Z prole: Because asdf have just been update to the 3.2 version, and slime is not compatible with it yet...
2017-01-17T13:31:55Z prole: I tried to update the asdf api used in swank, but I didn't succecded
2017-01-17T13:31:59Z Xach: What form does that lack of compatibility take?
2017-01-17T13:32:09Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:32:49Z prole: For exemple, (asdf:make-instance 'asdf:operation) no more being supported (I had to replace it with (asdf:make-operation 'asfd:operation)
2017-01-17T13:33:10Z Xach: oh, yes, I think I recall that being called an "abuse" of asdf
2017-01-17T13:33:38Z prole: I changed that, then I tried to recompile slime, it compiles, but the repl buffer don't pop up
2017-01-17T13:33:46Z prole: I'm pretty mucha  begginer, and I'm really struggling
2017-01-17T13:34:30Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T13:34:48Z dmaj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T13:35:23Z prole: No bug ticket have been raised in the slime github account since... That's weird. Maybe am I the only one, or I did something wrong while reinstalling emacs
2017-01-17T13:38:35Z dlowe: prole: you might be interested in #clnoobs as an additional channel to check out
2017-01-17T13:39:34Z jackdaniel: prole: if you downgrade SBCL to 1.3.12, it has older ASDF and all should be fine
2017-01-17T13:41:05Z Xach: I don't think SBCL includes ASDF 3.2.0.
2017-01-17T13:41:23Z Xach: The latest git includes 3.1.5.
2017-01-17T13:42:04Z prole: all right, thanks
2017-01-17T13:42:34Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:45:52Z Xach builds the quicklisp world with 3.2.0 to see what happens
2017-01-17T13:47:07Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:49:17Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-17T13:51:48Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T13:52:05Z ogamita joined #lisp
2017-01-17T13:59:38Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:00:34Z z3r0_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-17T14:04:43Z madariaga joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:05:19Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T14:10:05Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:10:26Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:10:50Z alienbot quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T14:10:52Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:10:54Z prole: All right, I'm an incredible idiot
2017-01-17T14:11:03Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:11:04Z prole: Asdf is actually installed by my package manager
2017-01-17T14:11:19Z prole: thanks you anyway guys
2017-01-17T14:11:48Z sunsheng joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:19:36Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T14:19:51Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:19:56Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-17T14:19:59Z ogamita: prole: I don't believe you.
2017-01-17T14:23:06Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:25:52Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:26:08Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-17T14:27:22Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:27:32Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:31:02Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T14:31:05Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T14:32:12Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:32:12Z Xach: Don't flatter yourself! There are much bigger idiots!
2017-01-17T14:32:42Z prole: Xach: :) What version of asdf should I get? 3.1.5? 3.1.7?
2017-01-17T14:32:58Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:33:14Z Xach: prole: If you use sbcl, you can use what comes with sbcl. I don't think it is a great idea to use a package manager for ASDF in general.
2017-01-17T14:34:18Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:36:17Z prole quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T14:36:43Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:36:52Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:38:01Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-17T14:38:01Z hundo joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:43:09Z Oladon1 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:44:51Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T14:45:15Z dyelar joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:45:32Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-17T14:45:38Z Oladon quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-17T14:47:10Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:47:26Z varjag quit (Quit: ')
2017-01-17T14:47:30Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:51:28Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-17T14:51:35Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T14:52:12Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T14:52:41Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:54:01Z nullman joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:54:12Z alienbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T14:55:30Z madariaga quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T14:55:53Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-17T14:56:05Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T14:57:15Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T14:57:25Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T15:00:36Z krasnal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T15:02:55Z itruslove quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2017-01-17T15:02:55Z Guest316 quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2017-01-17T15:03:34Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:05:14Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T15:08:07Z itruslove joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:09:19Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:09:49Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-17T15:10:20Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T15:11:38Z giraffe joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:11:45Z giraffe is now known as Guest44896
2017-01-17T15:13:00Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:14:54Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:14:58Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:16:56Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T15:21:42Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T15:22:39Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:22:39Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T15:22:41Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-17T15:23:11Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:26:16Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T15:27:03Z alphor quit (Quit: Bye!)
2017-01-17T15:27:50Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:28:02Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-17T15:28:15Z grublet2 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:29:01Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:29:22Z mordocai quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.2+deb1 - http://znc.in)
2017-01-17T15:29:37Z grublet2 is now known as grublet
2017-01-17T15:29:54Z diogofranco: I can't quite use cl-mongo with ecl unless I do (defconstant +mongo-port+ 27017) on the error restart and retry.
2017-01-17T15:30:47Z diogofranco: I'll try to isolate this, maybe its some king of bug with ecl
2017-01-17T15:31:07Z mordocai joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:31:55Z hundo quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-17T15:35:20Z sunsheng quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T15:35:27Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T15:36:32Z sunsheng joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:38:44Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:39:56Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T15:40:02Z ogamita: missing eval-when?
2017-01-17T15:43:56Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:46:00Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:46:28Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:47:07Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-17T15:47:07Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:48:21Z warweasle joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:49:23Z warweasle: Xach: Doh! Sorry, I was on the road for 12 hours yesterday. I fell into bed and forgot to check out your errors.
2017-01-17T15:51:33Z scymtym__ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T15:52:36Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T15:54:10Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-17T15:55:37Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T15:56:11Z Xach: Priorities, please
2017-01-17T15:56:42Z warweasle: Xach: I can look at it tonight if it's not too late.
2017-01-17T15:57:57Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T15:57:57Z Xach: no rush
2017-01-17T16:00:49Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:01:54Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:03:25Z heurist_ is now known as heurist
2017-01-17T16:06:05Z scymtym__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T16:06:24Z scymtym__ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:06:43Z Xof quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T16:09:20Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:11:05Z test1600_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T16:12:59Z zacts quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-17T16:14:52Z zacts joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:18:09Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:18:50Z alphor joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:19:57Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:20:17Z vicfred quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T16:23:21Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:26:00Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:27:38Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:29:28Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:31:17Z o1e9 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-17T16:31:21Z warweasle quit (Quit: need food...)
2017-01-17T16:32:16Z sunsheng quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T16:34:22Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:35:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T16:35:17Z phoe: Xach: I will also look into issues in SECURE-READ tests - but I need to stop being sick first.
2017-01-17T16:35:23Z phoe: As in, so I can think Lisp again.
2017-01-17T16:36:42Z sunsheng joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:38:22Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:39:58Z _death: currently thinking C++?
2017-01-17T16:43:30Z phoe: currently not thinking.
2017-01-17T16:43:51Z _death: similar, then :)
2017-01-17T16:44:24Z libre-man is now known as libreman
2017-01-17T16:45:09Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-17T16:48:31Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-17T16:51:12Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:51:22Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T16:53:38Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:55:06Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-17T16:56:43Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-17T16:57:14Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-17T17:01:46Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-17T17:02:10Z angavrilov quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T17:14:51Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-17T17:17:30Z kodnin quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-17T17:19:35Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-17T17:20:57Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-17T17:24:14Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2017-01-17T17:28:09Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-17T17:34:03Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-17T17:34:56Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-17T17:39:10Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T17:40:14Z SolairePhantom joined #lisp
2017-01-17T17:41:09Z anon9002 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T17:41:47Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-17T17:48:31Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-17T17:49:37Z malice` quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-17T17:49:42Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-17T17:52:41Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-17T17:54:00Z revdan quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-17T17:54:51Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-17T18:05:00Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-17T18:07:20Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-17T18:08:37Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T18:10:53Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-17T18:11:26Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T18:11:57Z ogamita quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T18:13:52Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-17T18:14:32Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-17T18:15:04Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-17T18:21:40Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T18:29:00Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-17T18:30:42Z circ-user-IVSJb joined #lisp
2017-01-17T18:34:32Z jurov: asdf-3.2.0 is provided in gentoo, although marked unstable. Stable version is 3.1.5 and that gets installes with sbcl... so if someone is running all-unstable system, this will bite them
2017-01-17T18:41:21Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-17T18:44:05Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-17T18:46:35Z Xach: failure report for asdf 3.2.0 is severe. http://report.quicklisp.org/2017-01-17/failure-report.html
2017-01-17T18:47:08Z Xach: I think some of it must be due to a few key things that are affected.
2017-01-17T18:48:32Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-17T18:49:16Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-17T18:49:20Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-17T18:50:01Z Bike: hunchentoot and swank both get ASDF/INTERFACE::OPERATION-FORCED is undefined. an internal thing? that's strange.
2017-01-17T18:50:53Z Bike: the changelog entry for which exhorts to upgrade slime
2017-01-17T18:51:07Z jackdaniel: asdf/interface was removed I think
2017-01-17T18:51:11Z unbalanced joined #lisp
2017-01-17T18:51:21Z jackdaniel: as "obsolete"
2017-01-17T18:52:45Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-17T18:52:48Z Bike: but swank doesn't actually refer to it. the failing asd just has a perform method
2017-01-17T18:53:29Z Bike: this might be too neww. yeah, nevermind
2017-01-17T18:53:36Z scymtym__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T18:54:08Z jdz joined #lisp
2017-01-17T18:54:24Z Bike: well, just clicking randomly through the failure reports it's operation-forced almost every time
2017-01-17T18:54:37Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-17T18:55:57Z jackdaniel: or maybe I'm wrong, it has to be some later commit than the one I had in mind
2017-01-17T18:56:13Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-17T18:56:45Z Bike: actually most of these seem to in fact be operation-forced while loading swank.
2017-01-17T18:56:46Z raynold_ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T18:56:57Z rjid left #lisp
2017-01-17T18:57:08Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-17T18:58:44Z Bike: unless hunchentoot depends on swank in some weird way
2017-01-17T19:03:10Z unbalanced quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T19:03:22Z br4in joined #lisp
2017-01-17T19:04:03Z phoe: While loading SWANK.
2017-01-17T19:04:10Z phoe: Just a weird thought.
2017-01-17T19:04:24Z Bike: what?
2017-01-17T19:04:31Z phoe: I'm having a weird idea.
2017-01-17T19:05:01Z jackdaniel: you have this weird idea while loading swank?
2017-01-17T19:05:07Z phoe: No, jackdaniel :P
2017-01-17T19:05:08Z jackdaniel: wow, it must take a while. you probably use ecl D:
2017-01-17T19:06:13Z phoe: Okay - nevermind, just a random idea that turned out false.
2017-01-17T19:10:15Z sellout-1 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T19:11:46Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-17T19:13:10Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T19:17:01Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-17T19:20:41Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-17T19:23:23Z bocaneri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T19:30:01Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-17T19:33:53Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-17T19:38:55Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T19:45:06Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-17T19:45:59Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-17T19:50:12Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-17T19:50:17Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-17T19:52:07Z celso joined #lisp
2017-01-17T19:52:33Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-17T19:59:16Z DrCode joined #lisp
2017-01-17T19:59:44Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-17T20:00:19Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T20:00:46Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:05:38Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:06:08Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T20:08:32Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-17T20:09:28Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:10:12Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:12:13Z sausages joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:12:21Z SolairePhantom quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-17T20:12:51Z celso quit
2017-01-17T20:13:01Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T20:13:31Z celsosouza joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:14:06Z sausages: is there a way to custom define #\CharacterNames, by any chance?  either standard or specific to SBCL?
2017-01-17T20:15:50Z Xach: sausages: no standard way, but you could M-. into (get-dispatch-macro-character #\# #\\)
2017-01-17T20:16:17Z Xach: Looks like there's *base-char-name-alist* and some other bits
2017-01-17T20:16:23Z Xach: (in sbcl)
2017-01-17T20:17:20Z Bourne joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:18:32Z sausages: thanks, I'll poke that for a bit and see what I can get it to do
2017-01-17T20:19:14Z Xplicit joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:19:22Z celsosouza quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-17T20:19:41Z celsosouza joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:19:52Z celsosouza quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-17T20:20:12Z celsosouza joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:20:17Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T20:23:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T20:26:43Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:31:07Z Xplicit quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-17T20:32:44Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:35:55Z Denommus` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T20:37:43Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T20:38:57Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-17T20:39:31Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T20:41:49Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:43:04Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-17T20:43:43Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:44:03Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:44:41Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-17T20:44:41Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:45:02Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:50:10Z wedesoft joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:51:08Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:52:17Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T20:55:12Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:56:09Z celsosouza quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-17T20:56:10Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-17T20:58:13Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-17T21:00:40Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T21:01:09Z MetaHertz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-17T21:06:57Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-17T21:07:01Z circ-user-IVSJb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T21:09:08Z paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T21:10:37Z aeth: Is there a way to make "\tfoo\n\tbar" work in CL? I'm guessing there's a way to modify the print representation of strings to print it (override its print-object?), but to read it, it might require a reader macro or something?
2017-01-17T21:11:24Z aeth: i.e. "\t" would be a string with the tab character, and "\n" for the newline, etc., instead of the default behavior of "\t" producing "t" and "\n" producing "n"
2017-01-17T21:12:18Z Xach: aeth: you could have a reader macro on #\".
2017-01-17T21:12:24Z dlowe: aeth: cl-interpol does this
2017-01-17T21:12:28Z Xach: aeth: there are some libraries that do dispatching macros for that.
2017-01-17T21:13:42Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-17T21:15:52Z diogofranco: aeth: You can also use format
2017-01-17T21:16:41Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-17T21:18:17Z aeth: diogofranco: (format nil "Foo bar baz foobar!~%") feels wrong, even if the compiler should optimize that away.
2017-01-17T21:18:50Z White_Flame: (concatenate 'string "abc" (string #\newline) "def") :-P
2017-01-17T21:19:10Z White_Flame: though you could (defvar *nl* (string #\newline)) to make it more compact
2017-01-17T21:19:57Z sirkmatija quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T21:20:00Z aeth: actually I just put #\Newline as its own element, and handle it in a typecase parse of the list that's writing to a file
2017-01-17T21:20:18Z White_Flame: the "proper" solution is actually have literal tab & newline char in your sourcecode directly, but editors love mucking around with that
2017-01-17T21:21:00Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-17T21:21:03Z aeth: (list ";;;; Foobar" #\Newline #\Newline ";;; Some foos" #\Newline (list (list :foo :foobar :bar :barfoo)))
2017-01-17T21:21:53Z White_Flame: (list ";;;; Foobar
2017-01-17T21:21:56Z aeth: They're not concatenated, that's a useless extra step, they're just written in order
2017-01-17T21:21:56Z White_Flame: ;;;; Some foos
2017-01-17T21:21:57Z White_Flame: ")
2017-01-17T21:22:18Z aeth:  White_Flame It's not some editor, it's basically every editor ever, and every web preview ever.
2017-01-17T21:22:26Z White_Flame: yep
2017-01-17T21:22:52Z aeth: Everything assumes the language has \n or something like it for when you just need to split ";;;; This is some comment that happens to be slightly too long for one line when written"
2017-01-17T21:24:37Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T21:25:25Z aeth: I suppose I could mix it and do something like (list (format nil ";;;; This is some comment that happens to be slightly too long for one~%;;;; line when written.~%") #\Newline (list :foo :foobar :bar :barfoo) #\Newline)
2017-01-17T21:25:25Z White_Flame: if you do "foo\\nbar", you can postprocesss it out, but yeah \n gets chomped by the default reader
2017-01-17T21:26:11Z aeth: Personally, I'd love a future CL (if not already possible) to permit defining new escapes so e.g. defining \n to mean something... basically string macros?
2017-01-17T21:26:27Z aeth: Because a reader macro overriding " or introducing something like " is a bit heavyweight
2017-01-17T21:27:03Z White_Flame: yea, the standard reader is a bit too black box for my liking as well
2017-01-17T21:29:09Z dlowe: you can always write your own :)
2017-01-17T21:29:15Z aeth: Another advantage of string macros is that they could be symmetric, i.e. also on print, i.e. "foo\n" would return "foo\n" instead of "foo<actual newline goes here>"
2017-01-17T21:29:24Z dlowe: you'll still need the standard one to use libraries, though
2017-01-17T21:29:51Z aeth: dlowe: well, yeah, I could write string macros on top of reader macros, which would serve to double the work to add \n :-p
2017-01-17T21:29:59Z aeth: instead of halve the work
2017-01-17T21:30:40Z puchacz: hello - I don't know much about ciphers, I know there exists ironclad library. I would like to build a client (deployable app) and I want the server (hunchentoot behind nginx, https enabled with certificate) - I want the server to know that it is most likely genuine client that tries to talk to it.....
2017-01-17T21:30:44Z aeth: It might also interfere with internal implementation optimizations in the string reader, although I'm not sure. It would probably take a lot of strings to notice, though.
2017-01-17T21:31:36Z White_Flame: puchacz: you want client-side certificates
2017-01-17T21:31:51Z puchacz: White_Flame: can I generate one myself?
2017-01-17T21:31:52Z anon9002 left #lisp
2017-01-17T21:31:55Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-17T21:32:02Z White_Flame: yes
2017-01-17T21:32:17Z White_Flame: you'll need to install it on the client browser, or in the deployed client binary
2017-01-17T21:32:27Z puchacz: deployed client binary
2017-01-17T21:32:34Z White_Flame: in the latter case, probably make it a separate step instead of bundling it in
2017-01-17T21:32:42Z White_Flame: so your secret isn't in the installation file itself
2017-01-17T21:33:17Z White_Flame: note that I don't have any clue on the lisp ecosystem support of this, but that's the overall model
2017-01-17T21:33:21Z puchacz: browser is a browser, it just requests pages. say the client can request more data in internal format
2017-01-17T21:33:50Z White_Flame: the client is going to be talking https or wss.  Inside those formats, of course you can do whatever
2017-01-17T21:34:21Z White_Flame: the server would require there to be a known client certificate, and the handshake to initialize the https/wss would take care of that
2017-01-17T21:34:26Z puchacz: https - to make it consistent with the rest of the application. at least hunchentoot behind nginx understands it
2017-01-17T21:34:59Z puchacz: (ie nginx understands https)
2017-01-17T21:36:29Z williamyaoh joined #lisp
2017-01-17T21:36:30Z puchacz: White_Flame: thanks. I need to read about it and try to match ironclad functions with these concepts
2017-01-17T21:37:56Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T21:38:20Z puchacz: actually, instead of a proper full blown certificate, can I generate public key and have it in my client app code, whereas server would keep private key to verify it?
2017-01-17T21:39:22Z p_l: That's pretty much what a direct use of self-signed certificates look like
2017-01-17T21:39:28Z puchacz: it is not impossible to break the security here, but my goal is not to make it trivial to break security
2017-01-17T21:39:38Z White_Flame: yes, you can do that
2017-01-17T21:39:54Z White_Flame: establish a normal wss, transfer your own custom credentials through that
2017-01-17T21:40:09Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T21:40:44Z puchacz: but - drakma does not understand certificates as far as I know, how would the client know it connects to my server, and not to a fake one just to be provoked to send the public certificate?
2017-01-17T21:40:50Z White_Flame: in fact, we do crypto over plaintext ws, because crypto support was not mature at the time we wrote our stuff
2017-01-17T21:41:11Z White_Flame: ie, all custom crypto using ws to transfer encrypted blobs
2017-01-17T21:41:13Z p_l: puchacz: Drakma does grok certificates, but it's a bit hidden and annoying
2017-01-17T21:41:39Z White_Flame: the client relies on DNS matching your server cert
2017-01-17T21:42:03Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-17T21:42:18Z puchacz: White_Flame, p_l: I know drakma can download over https, but will it signal a condition if DNS name does not match the certificate?
2017-01-17T21:42:27Z White_Flame: I don't know anything about the lib support
2017-01-17T21:42:43Z White_Flame: however, fi the DNS name doesn't match, it would fail the TLS handshake
2017-01-17T21:42:53Z p_l: puchacz: it can, I looked through it once, but can't recall right now if it didn't involve calling cl+ssl directly for some things
2017-01-17T21:42:53Z akkad: is there a way to make this function generic where line 38 uses the value of the slot corresponding to the value passed as field? https://gist.github.com/ober/cdd33e91dd2df774c4bc3c68d1a3a7d4
2017-01-17T21:43:28Z p_l: puchacz: What it doesn't have is various new fancy things like HSTS and key pinning etc.
2017-01-17T21:43:44Z puchacz: p_l: I don't even know what these are
2017-01-17T21:43:45Z binghe joined #lisp
2017-01-17T21:44:09Z puchacz: White_Flame: I will dig further. btw, why you keep saying wss instead of https?
2017-01-17T21:44:14Z PuercoPop: akkad: cl-interpol handles \n
2017-01-17T21:44:18Z puchacz: what does this protocol give?
2017-01-17T21:44:33Z p_l: puchacz: WSS is a protocol that can "ride on" same TLS connection as HTTPS
2017-01-17T21:44:44Z gabnet joined #lisp
2017-01-17T21:44:57Z White_Flame: wss is simply more useful for custom server comms, depending on what you're doing
2017-01-17T21:45:02Z akkad: oh i mean to dereference field value as "slot". so say generic_method(foo bar slot-value-i-want-to-use)
2017-01-17T21:46:02Z dlowe: Even in the lisp world, most people just use openssl and call it a day
2017-01-17T21:46:03Z puchacz: White_Flame, p_l: I would just define-easy-handler in hunchentoot, and return cl-conspack into binary stream, have nginx handle https and certificate
2017-01-17T21:46:24Z puchacz: dlowe: how exactly in my scenario?
2017-01-17T21:47:07Z dlowe: puchacz: I don't have the knowledge or time to solve your problem exactly.
2017-01-17T21:47:30Z puchacz: dlowe: right :) my knowledge on cryptography is limited too :)
2017-01-17T21:49:05Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T21:49:24Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-17T21:50:08Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-17T21:50:35Z gabnet quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ))
2017-01-17T21:51:27Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T21:55:13Z deank quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-17T21:55:17Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-17T21:55:17Z White_Flame: puchacz: you don't need to know cryptography in your case.  If you can get the basic https connection to work, then your back-and-forth with the server can just be your secrets in plaintext
2017-01-17T21:55:32Z White_Flame: (unless you don't want the server to know the client secrets, and go down that whole rabbit trail)
2017-01-17T21:55:41Z sellout-1 quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-17T21:55:44Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T21:56:03Z n3k0_t quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T21:56:12Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-17T21:56:40Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-17T21:57:58Z puchacz: White_Flame: server and client are mine, so they share what is needed
2017-01-17T21:58:49Z puchacz: ok, so (1) check if drakma fails on DNS error with server certificate, if so (2) just use one key from the pair on the client, and the other on the server.
2017-01-17T21:58:51Z puchacz: right?
2017-01-17T21:59:11Z puchacz: https failure on server spoofing will keep my key in the client reasonably protected
2017-01-17T21:59:26Z puchacz: as unhacked client will not reveal its key to anything but my server
2017-01-17T21:59:35Z White_Flame: you could even do a plain password or registration key on the client
2017-01-17T21:59:42Z puchacz: true
2017-01-17T21:59:49Z White_Flame: send that along wiht the https request
2017-01-17T22:00:03Z p_l: We did full client certs once as license key
2017-01-17T22:00:07Z akkad: Puercopop thanks. will see
2017-01-17T22:00:14Z n3k0_t joined #lisp
2017-01-17T22:00:26Z White_Flame: (1) if https works, (2) check the custom auth info the client sent
2017-01-17T22:00:28Z p_l: I.E. Our server provided updates only to valid keys
2017-01-17T22:01:06Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-17T22:01:46Z puchacz: White_Flame, p_l: yup. got it, thanks, guys :-)
2017-01-17T22:02:05Z sunsheng quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T22:03:13Z sunsheng joined #lisp
2017-01-17T22:05:09Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-17T22:09:40Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T22:11:17Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T22:11:24Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-17T22:11:24Z Trystam quit (Changing host)
2017-01-17T22:11:24Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-17T22:12:53Z handlex quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-17T22:13:02Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-17T22:13:35Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T22:13:46Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-17T22:13:49Z Trystam is now known as Tristam
2017-01-17T22:14:09Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-17T22:15:27Z Bourne quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T22:19:30Z n3k0_t quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T22:20:52Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-17T22:21:18Z arquebus joined #lisp
2017-01-17T22:21:26Z sausages quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2017-01-17T22:21:59Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-17T22:22:13Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-17T22:24:27Z travv0 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T22:29:38Z handlex quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-17T22:32:13Z wedesoft quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T22:33:02Z arquebus quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-17T22:34:52Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-17T22:36:11Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-17T22:36:18Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-17T22:39:00Z pillton joined #lisp
2017-01-17T22:39:14Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-17T22:47:39Z zooey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T22:48:19Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-17T22:50:32Z malice: Is there an alternative for dolist for vectors?
2017-01-17T22:51:16Z Bike: no. you can use loop though.
2017-01-17T22:51:22Z malice: :/
2017-01-17T22:51:44Z pillton: (loop for x-i across x do (print x-i))
2017-01-17T22:52:19Z Bike: or write it yourself. (defmacro dovector ((elt vector &optional ret) &body body) `(loop for ,elt across ,vector do (tagbody ,@body) finally (return ,ret))) or so
2017-01-17T22:52:39Z malice: yeah, I'm writing it myself.
2017-01-17T22:53:02Z malice: why tagbody though?
2017-01-17T22:53:07Z pillton: Do you use tagbody for a reason ?
2017-01-17T22:53:28Z Bike: because dolist has a tagbody.
2017-01-17T22:54:17Z pillton: Oh so it does. Didn't know that.
2017-01-17T22:54:27Z malice: me too. Thanks!
2017-01-17T22:54:32Z malice: Learn something new every day ;)
2017-01-17T22:54:35Z vap1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T22:56:43Z pillton: I can't think of where I would use that feature though.
2017-01-17T23:00:23Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-17T23:01:35Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T23:03:43Z pillton: Someone should fix the indentation rules for dolist and dotimes then.
2017-01-17T23:15:25Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-17T23:18:28Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-17T23:20:10Z kodnin quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2017-01-17T23:20:15Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-17T23:21:53Z paul0 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-17T23:23:11Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-17T23:25:11Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-17T23:26:05Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T23:26:32Z nicdev joined #lisp
2017-01-17T23:26:37Z bpf quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T23:27:30Z BusFactor1 quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-17T23:28:12Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-17T23:29:40Z FareTower quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T23:30:49Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-17T23:32:35Z binghe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T23:35:14Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-17T23:35:28Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-17T23:35:35Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-17T23:42:33Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2017-01-17T23:44:02Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-17T23:46:01Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-17T23:46:33Z Xach: pillton: if you want to skip an element/index, or redo one.
2017-01-17T23:46:39Z Xach: I used it not long ago.
2017-01-17T23:47:26Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-17T23:47:29Z EdwardCoffin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-17T23:48:04Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-17T23:48:06Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-17T23:50:15Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-18T00:04:35Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T00:04:49Z mfiano` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T00:05:29Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T00:07:20Z pillton: Right.
2017-01-18T00:12:22Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T00:13:07Z heurist joined #lisp
2017-01-18T00:14:56Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-18T00:15:05Z shifty joined #lisp
2017-01-18T00:19:45Z nrp3c quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-18T00:23:35Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T00:25:48Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-18T00:26:37Z ozzloy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T00:27:58Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-18T00:30:07Z pjb quit (Quit: Be seeing you!)
2017-01-18T00:33:30Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T00:34:18Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-18T00:36:01Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2017-01-18T00:36:01Z ozzloy quit (Changing host)
2017-01-18T00:36:01Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2017-01-18T00:36:10Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T00:38:08Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-18T00:38:57Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T00:40:06Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-18T00:40:43Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-18T00:41:44Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-18T00:43:38Z sunsheng quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T00:49:43Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-18T00:53:18Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:07:29Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-18T01:11:06Z dddddd quit (Quit: Hasta otra..)
2017-01-18T01:13:34Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:14:48Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:17:13Z jason_m` joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:18:27Z ozzloy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T01:18:40Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T01:25:12Z benwbooth joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:27:38Z moei quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T01:27:38Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T01:27:38Z flip214 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T01:27:38Z nowolfer quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T01:27:38Z snits quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T01:27:38Z stepnem quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T01:27:38Z lonjil quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T01:27:38Z xantoz quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T01:27:38Z SlashLife quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T01:27:38Z adolf_stalin quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T01:29:12Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:29:12Z jdz joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:29:12Z flip214 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:29:12Z nowolfer joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:29:12Z snits joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:29:12Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:29:12Z lonjil joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:29:12Z xantoz joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:29:12Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:29:12Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:29:15Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:29:15Z ozzloy quit (Changing host)
2017-01-18T01:29:15Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:29:25Z snits quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-18T01:30:03Z snits joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:32:55Z moei quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T01:34:58Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:36:12Z cibs quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T01:36:13Z pillton quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T01:36:13Z kjeldahl quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T01:36:36Z kjeldahl joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:38:05Z handlex quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-18T01:38:06Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T01:38:16Z punnie joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:39:01Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:42:28Z pillton joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:52:43Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:58:33Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-18T01:59:10Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T02:01:25Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-18T02:02:39Z n3k0_t joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:04:37Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:10:39Z wildbartty joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:13:26Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:19:17Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-18T02:21:40Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T02:26:46Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:26:53Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T02:27:50Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:28:13Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:29:50Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T02:30:09Z jameser_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:31:23Z jameser_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-18T02:32:05Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-18T02:32:59Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:35:12Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:38:29Z nowhereman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T02:38:54Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:39:57Z mudana joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:40:52Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T02:43:00Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:43:42Z wildbartty quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T02:44:17Z wildbartty joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:45:50Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T02:48:20Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:49:51Z punnie quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-18T02:58:32Z Colleen__ quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2017-01-18T02:58:47Z Colleen__ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:58:53Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Killed (barjavel.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
2017-01-18T02:59:28Z mindCrime quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-18T02:59:32Z eschatologist quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-18T02:59:42Z eschatologist joined #lisp
2017-01-18T02:59:57Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2017-01-18T03:00:22Z ryanbw quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2017-01-18T03:00:26Z NeverDie quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-18T03:01:05Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T03:01:33Z nelder joined #lisp
2017-01-18T03:02:30Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-18T03:04:12Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2017-01-18T03:07:45Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-18T03:11:49Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T03:14:42Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T03:14:57Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T03:14:59Z MetaHertz joined #lisp
2017-01-18T03:15:23Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-18T03:24:09Z beach` joined #lisp
2017-01-18T03:24:34Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T03:25:30Z beach quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T03:26:04Z cibs quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-18T03:30:50Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-18T03:34:46Z aindilis2 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T03:47:48Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-18T03:51:09Z aindilis` joined #lisp
2017-01-18T03:51:57Z aindilis2 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T03:55:08Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-18T03:56:36Z FreeBird_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T03:58:05Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-18T04:02:43Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T04:10:35Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-18T04:13:08Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-18T04:15:39Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-18T04:17:19Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-18T04:28:32Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-18T04:28:38Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-18T04:29:16Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T04:29:33Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-18T04:30:57Z jleija quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-18T04:39:25Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-18T04:40:44Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-18T04:44:28Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-18T04:45:14Z circ-user-IVSJb joined #lisp
2017-01-18T04:47:16Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-18T04:50:31Z slyrus joined #lisp
2017-01-18T04:53:17Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-18T04:59:05Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T05:01:04Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-18T05:08:14Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-18T05:08:25Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-18T05:08:58Z rjid left #lisp
2017-01-18T05:10:27Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-18T05:15:56Z rikk joined #lisp
2017-01-18T05:18:36Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-18T05:20:35Z rikk: hi there. i need to learn lisp and haskell for university but it's a pretty strange language( sorry no mean to offend to the people who actually like it). Any tutorial you guys recommend? i know asm, java, c and c# but lisp seems horrible. thanks
2017-01-18T05:21:06Z beach` is now known as beach
2017-01-18T05:21:23Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-18T05:21:49Z beach: minion: Please tell rikk about PCL.
2017-01-18T05:21:49Z minion: rikk: please look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2017-01-18T05:22:22Z pent quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-18T05:22:53Z pent joined #lisp
2017-01-18T05:23:50Z sword` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T05:25:08Z baNow:  MIT's SICP is good too.
2017-01-18T05:25:33Z beach: Bit it doesn't use Common Lisp.
2017-01-18T05:25:34Z rikk: ok thanks
2017-01-18T05:25:35Z beach: But
2017-01-18T05:26:49Z rikk: i guess i need to really understand it so i can see the beauty ( if theres any :P ) in it
2017-01-18T05:26:56Z rikk: thank you guys :)
2017-01-18T05:27:01Z beach: Anytime!
2017-01-18T05:29:00Z gabriel_laddel_p joined #lisp
2017-01-18T05:29:47Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2017-01-18T05:29:48Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2017-01-18T05:29:48Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2017-01-18T05:29:48Z gabriel_laddel_p: Is anyone working with Sussman's SICM-related ~'computer algebra' scheme system in common lisp?
2017-01-18T05:29:49Z vap1 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T05:30:06Z gabriel_laddel_p: and are there any good scheme implementations that run atop CL?
2017-01-18T05:30:27Z gabriel_laddel_p: and would anyone like to recommend me a scheme implementation other than racket?
2017-01-18T05:30:46Z gabriel_laddel_p: (with, perhaps, a description as to why it is better than the rest)
2017-01-18T05:32:09Z sword`` joined #lisp
2017-01-18T05:33:37Z Fare: Chez Scheme for speed, Gambit for portability.
2017-01-18T05:34:05Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T05:34:23Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-18T05:34:58Z Fare: Gambit has a well-factored VM, a small enough core separate for complete enough extensions, with decent speed backends -- it's well-balanced and portable.
2017-01-18T05:35:28Z gabriel_laddel_p: Fare: "well-balanced" < well, looks like my decision is made then. Thanks!
2017-01-18T05:35:28Z Fare: Chez is a speed demon available on many architectures.
2017-01-18T05:37:09Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-18T05:37:18Z Fare: rikk: are you learning CL at school, or some Scheme?
2017-01-18T05:38:43Z gabriel_laddel_p: wtf why is Chez associated with Cisco
2017-01-18T05:39:14Z gabriel_laddel_p: I've no issue with buisness associations, but eww.
2017-01-18T05:39:40Z Bike: that sounds like you have an issue with business associations
2017-01-18T05:39:59Z rikk: common lisp and haskell for a functional programming discipline
2017-01-18T05:40:08Z Bike: that is kind of surprising though
2017-01-18T05:40:28Z rikk: i skipped classes tho
2017-01-18T05:40:35Z Fare: gabriel_laddel_p, cisco opensourced Chez recently
2017-01-18T05:40:45Z gabriel_laddel_p: Bike: I'll be more explicit then - everyone I've met from Cisco has been an awful human being.
2017-01-18T05:41:07Z Fare: Well, at least Andy Keep there is great
2017-01-18T05:41:09Z gabriel_laddel_p: Fare: Really now. That's quite interesting.
2017-01-18T05:41:10Z myrkraverk_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T05:41:30Z myrkraverk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T05:41:46Z myrkraverk_ is now known as myrkraverk
2017-01-18T05:42:00Z Fare: big companies have many departments
2017-01-18T05:42:43Z Fare: gabriel_laddel_p, are you porting masamune to Gambit?
2017-01-18T05:43:15Z gabriel_laddel_p: Fare: No.
2017-01-18T05:44:44Z Fare: if you like the racket module system, but don't want racket, vyzo once ported it to Gambit.
2017-01-18T05:44:57Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-18T05:44:57Z rikk: i went there 1yr ago but lisp is something really crazy, or maybe it's my teacher and the way he teaches (or both xD ) anyway i need to pratice this stuff, this year there won't be no assignments only exam so i might give it a try ( but need to practice tho, only by doing one learns)
2017-01-18T05:45:14Z gabriel_laddel_p: Fare: https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/titles/content/sicm/book-Z-H-5.html
2017-01-18T05:45:22Z gabriel_laddel_p: for the record, this is what I'm looking at
2017-01-18T05:45:24Z Fare: rikk, which lisp implementation do you use/
2017-01-18T05:45:55Z rikk: clisp
2017-01-18T05:45:58Z gabriel_laddel_p: am hunting down all the parts of SICM so I can see what it is that Sussman has been thinking about.
2017-01-18T05:46:00Z Fare: gabriel_laddel_p, the book uses MIT Scheme.
2017-01-18T05:46:11Z rikk: he's following the art of lisp programming book closely
2017-01-18T05:46:32Z rikk: is it any good compared to pratical common lisp?
2017-01-18T05:46:49Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T05:46:57Z gabriel_laddel_p: Fare: I didn't realize implementation mattered, ty.
2017-01-18T05:48:28Z beach: Wow, that book predates the Common Lisp standard it seems.
2017-01-18T05:49:03Z Bike: but the epigraph is arnold, so it must be good
2017-01-18T05:49:10Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-18T05:50:33Z Fare has weird errors using cl-launch on ecl -- no output :-(
2017-01-18T05:50:58Z Fare gives up on ECL for now
2017-01-18T05:51:16Z Fare: gabriel_laddel_p, in the Scheme world, implementation matters a lot more than in the CL world
2017-01-18T05:51:25Z Fare: and in the CL world, it's already hell
2017-01-18T05:51:30Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T05:51:56Z Fare: with CL, portability works just enough to suck you into the hell of making it actually work.
2017-01-18T05:52:30Z gabriel_laddel_p: Meh, in comparision to any other programming languages, it's fantastic.
2017-01-18T05:52:43Z Fare: with Scheme, it's obviously hopeless enough that you don't even try (well, some tried with poor results and/or overly complex setups)
2017-01-18T05:52:58Z gabriel_laddel_p: ic
2017-01-18T05:52:59Z Fare: gabriel_laddel_p, everything is relative, indeed
2017-01-18T05:53:37Z Fare: the new r7rs standard is supposed to make portability somewhat easier.
2017-01-18T05:54:02Z beach: Fare: From time to time, I get excited about a project to define a revised "standard".  Contrary to other attempts in this direction, I don't want to change the language in any radical way.  All I want to do is define more behavior that is currently undefined or implementation dependent.
2017-01-18T05:54:15Z rikk haskell seems much more intuitive than lisp
2017-01-18T05:54:29Z gabriel_laddel_p: rikk: it isn't.
2017-01-18T05:54:31Z Fare: beach: how do you intend to get any buy-in from 10+ vendors?
2017-01-18T05:54:44Z beach: rikk: OK, that's enough.  This is a channel dedicated to Common Lisp, so please respect the choice of the participants here.
2017-01-18T05:54:57Z gabriel_laddel_p: rikk: you will quickly hit interpreter semantics that differ from compiler semantics and all other sorts of nonsense.
2017-01-18T05:55:10Z beach: Fare: If I were to think like that, I would never get anything done.
2017-01-18T05:55:37Z Fare: rikk: Haskell arguably has many advantages over Lisp, but "intuitive" isn't what I'd call any of them.
2017-01-18T05:55:38Z rikk: oh, i'm not buying any language wars, it's just i was watching the stuff i have to study. don't care each people be happy with whatever like and suits them
2017-01-18T05:56:06Z rikk: hum ok yeah i was just seeing the basics of each stuff
2017-01-18T05:56:27Z rikk: no mean to offend you beach ;) sorry if i did
2017-01-18T05:56:38Z Fare: beach: which reminds me of https://xkcd.com/927/
2017-01-18T05:58:12Z beach: Fare: Heh, nice!
2017-01-18T05:58:26Z Fare: somehow cl-launch gets no output at all from ecl. That's new behavior, though I don't know since when.
2017-01-18T05:58:47Z Fare: I don't know whether it's an asdf bug or an ecl bug
2017-01-18T05:59:16Z beach: Fare: I am pretty sure jackdaniel would be happy to help you here.
2017-01-18T05:59:33Z beach: Fare: It is not as though ECL is unmaintained.
2017-01-18T05:59:50Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T06:01:23Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-18T06:08:14Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-18T06:10:54Z gabriel_laddel_p quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2017-01-18T06:12:56Z dec0n quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-18T06:13:11Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-18T06:14:29Z dec0n quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T06:15:51Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-18T06:16:09Z dec0n quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T06:16:47Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-18T06:19:23Z rikk quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-18T06:19:40Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T06:23:15Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T06:24:57Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-18T06:27:23Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-18T06:27:30Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-18T06:28:33Z yeticry joined #lisp
2017-01-18T06:32:49Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-18T06:34:55Z jackdaniel: o/
2017-01-18T06:35:27Z jackdaniel splits ecl's compiler into frontend, env and backend modules
2017-01-18T06:36:28Z beach: Hello jackdaniel.
2017-01-18T06:40:58Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-18T06:41:00Z bocaneri quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-18T06:41:38Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T06:43:52Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-18T06:45:22Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-18T06:45:59Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T06:47:36Z burton` joined #lisp
2017-01-18T06:49:08Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-18T06:52:22Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-18T06:55:18Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-18T07:04:49Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-18T07:13:32Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-18T07:24:36Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-18T07:28:47Z HoloIRCUser2 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T07:30:14Z circ-user-IVSJb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T07:31:08Z HoloIRCUser2 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-18T07:32:02Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T07:36:45Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T07:36:53Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-18T07:37:13Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-18T07:38:38Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-18T07:42:05Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T07:42:05Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-18T07:44:44Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-18T07:45:08Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-18T07:46:39Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-18T07:50:31Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-18T07:51:56Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T07:54:11Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-18T07:56:09Z nrp3c quit (Read error: error:1408F119:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:decryption failed or bad record mac)
2017-01-18T08:02:40Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:02:55Z bpf joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:05:38Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-18T08:08:50Z d4ryus1 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:09:04Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-18T08:11:53Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-18T08:12:10Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:12:39Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:12:53Z br4in quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-18T08:14:08Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:19:35Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T08:20:43Z br4in joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:22:18Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:26:20Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-18T08:28:28Z yeticry joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:29:01Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T08:30:59Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:38:41Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:39:29Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:39:50Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-18T08:40:52Z nowhereman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-18T08:40:57Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:42:10Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:43:27Z ogamita joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:45:30Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T08:46:46Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:50:33Z phoe: Hey guys.
2017-01-18T08:50:47Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:52:16Z beach: Hello phoe.
2017-01-18T08:54:24Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-18T08:54:29Z revdan joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:54:57Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T08:55:00Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:56:04Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-18T08:57:42Z ogamita quit (Quit: Be seeing you!)
2017-01-18T08:58:11Z knobo: Are there any methods that can help me upgrade object when a clos class change?
2017-01-18T08:58:36Z beach: That happens automatically, but you can customize that behavior.
2017-01-18T08:58:44Z Bike: clhs update-instance-for-redefined-class
2017-01-18T08:58:44Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_upda_1.htm
2017-01-18T08:58:47Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-18T08:59:52Z knobo: thanx, just what I need :)
2017-01-18T09:00:22Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-18T09:02:46Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-18T09:03:45Z yeticry joined #lisp
2017-01-18T09:07:15Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T09:09:43Z knobo: It does not tell me the class name of changed inherited classes. Only slots. But it's good enough for now.
2017-01-18T09:10:40Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T09:11:02Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T09:12:38Z knobo: Maybe change-class is also used?
2017-01-18T09:13:51Z knobo: hmm.no
2017-01-18T09:16:45Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-18T09:16:49Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-18T09:17:17Z Oladon1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-18T09:18:00Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-18T09:18:38Z binghe joined #lisp
2017-01-18T09:20:25Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-18T09:20:44Z Bike quit (Quit: slerp)
2017-01-18T09:23:33Z jackdaniel: knobo: do you mean something like (class-name (class-of instance))
2017-01-18T09:26:20Z arrsim quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T09:27:19Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-18T09:27:39Z knobo: jackdaniel: no, more like (sb-mop:class-precedence-list (find-class 'knobo))
2017-01-18T09:27:50Z knobo: But with before and after state.
2017-01-18T09:30:37Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-18T09:32:55Z arrsim joined #lisp
2017-01-18T09:32:56Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T09:33:02Z knobo: But I don't need that.
2017-01-18T09:34:10Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T09:35:02Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T09:35:40Z beach: knobo: Perhaps it would help if you explained what it is that you are trying to accomplish.
2017-01-18T09:37:12Z nostoi joined #lisp
2017-01-18T09:37:13Z nostoi_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T09:37:17Z binghe left #lisp
2017-01-18T09:39:45Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-18T09:39:46Z knobo: I have stored some objects with cl-store, and now I have to make sure it does not fail if I want to change the classes.
2017-01-18T09:40:26Z knobo: I have to do the changes in the running system, so that I can store the new objects right after the change.
2017-01-18T09:40:57Z knobo: I'm starting to think that using cl-store is a bit risky.
2017-01-18T09:41:05Z beach: And why is UPDATE-INSTANCE-FOR-REDEFINED-CLASS insufficient?
2017-01-18T09:41:18Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-18T09:41:38Z knobo: beach: it's not. Its good enough as I said.
2017-01-18T09:41:49Z beach: Oh, OK.
2017-01-18T09:42:58Z knobo: I was additionaly thinking about keeping a log of the changes. But that log is in the source code, unless someone is playing around in the repl.
2017-01-18T09:43:20Z knobo: Which one probably should not do in the production system.
2017-01-18T09:44:33Z knobo: But I'll log all the changes to the objects, though. With a timestamp.
2017-01-18T09:44:45Z beach: knobo: Perhaps "Clobber" would be an interesting alternative to you: https://github.com/robert-strandh/Clobber
2017-01-18T09:45:56Z tommy_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T09:46:04Z loke: Hello beach!
2017-01-18T09:46:19Z beach: Hey loke.  About to go back home?
2017-01-18T09:46:26Z loke: beach: Yeah, tomorrow.
2017-01-18T09:46:51Z loke: The weather this morning was absolutely horrible. Right now it's -2°, and I think it wa sa bit colder when I walked to the office.
2017-01-18T09:47:16Z beach: It is relatively cold here in Bordeaux, but the weather is totally gorgeous. Sunny, no wind.
2017-01-18T09:47:36Z knobo: thanks for the pointer :)
2017-01-18T09:48:38Z loke: Let's just say that I'm looking forward to being able to go outside without changing the clother you wear.
2017-01-18T09:50:26Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T09:51:37Z br4in quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T09:54:22Z nostoi quit (Quit: Verlassend.)
2017-01-18T09:54:29Z nostoi_ quit (Quit: Verlassend.)
2017-01-18T09:58:01Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T10:00:07Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-18T10:07:16Z revdan quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-18T10:09:34Z HeyFlash joined #lisp
2017-01-18T10:10:52Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T10:16:08Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-18T10:17:18Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-18T10:20:05Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-18T10:24:37Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T10:28:33Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-18T10:29:12Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T10:29:56Z l04m33 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T10:30:22Z tommy_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-18T10:39:42Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-18T10:40:08Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-18T10:41:29Z ogamita joined #lisp
2017-01-18T10:41:51Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-18T10:49:32Z clintm joined #lisp
2017-01-18T10:55:56Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T10:57:15Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-18T10:59:23Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-18T11:02:55Z Urfin quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-18T11:06:10Z ogamita quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T11:20:26Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-18T11:22:23Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-18T11:23:08Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-18T11:28:19Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T11:29:58Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-18T11:33:26Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-18T11:36:09Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T11:36:50Z z3r0_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-18T11:37:31Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T11:39:13Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-18T11:39:24Z z3r0_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-18T11:41:45Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-18T11:42:36Z eagleflo_ is now known as eagleflo
2017-01-18T11:45:29Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-18T11:46:39Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-18T11:50:47Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T11:52:24Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-18T11:54:23Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-18T11:56:33Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T11:57:47Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-18T11:57:58Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-18T11:58:41Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:01:55Z ogamita joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:03:02Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:03:07Z azzamsa_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:07:53Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:09:28Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-18T12:09:51Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:10:57Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-18T12:12:32Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-18T12:12:57Z azzamsa_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T12:12:58Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:13:56Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:15:06Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-18T12:15:08Z malice` joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:15:13Z des_consolado left #lisp
2017-01-18T12:16:17Z Urfin joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:18:22Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:19:55Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:26:17Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T12:27:28Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:37:40Z vap1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T12:38:35Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-18T12:43:39Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-18T12:47:11Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:48:28Z HeyFlash- joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:48:49Z HeyFlash quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T12:48:57Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:49:46Z raynold_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-18T12:55:14Z azzamsa_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:57:05Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-18T12:57:42Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-18T12:58:35Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T12:59:32Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:04:35Z wildbartty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T13:05:19Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:06:35Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:09:11Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:09:52Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T13:11:09Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:14:08Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-18T13:14:12Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-18T13:22:43Z chronull quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-18T13:24:14Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:26:37Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:31:56Z ogamita quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T13:32:38Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:32:51Z ogamita joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:33:22Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-18T13:36:04Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:36:11Z azzamsa_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T13:38:34Z handlex quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-18T13:39:21Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:42:50Z clintm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T13:44:11Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-18T13:45:26Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:46:51Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:46:53Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-18T13:48:01Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:49:59Z unbalanced joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:52:15Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-18T13:52:44Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T13:53:19Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:54:30Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T13:55:58Z OTS__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T13:56:11Z OTS__ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:57:34Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:57:57Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-18T13:59:23Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-18T13:59:58Z macdavid314 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:00:22Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T14:00:56Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T14:00:56Z macdavid314 is now known as macdavid313
2017-01-18T14:05:10Z defgeneric quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T14:05:57Z cmatei quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-18T14:06:11Z rudi_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:06:27Z defgeneric joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:06:50Z rudi_ is now known as rudi
2017-01-18T14:10:43Z Xach hopes things come together for a release
2017-01-18T14:11:17Z wildbartty joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:11:18Z M-herah joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:12:02Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-18T14:12:34Z easye: Xach: Quicklisp release?  Or did I miss context?
2017-01-18T14:12:56Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:13:32Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:13:34Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:13:48Z Oladon joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:15:25Z Xach: yes, that
2017-01-18T14:15:55Z wildbartty quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-18T14:16:23Z kobain quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-18T14:16:33Z easye: They are always appreciated, but Quicklisp updates are so well tested, I usually work around fairly easily with ~2-3 <file:~/quicklisp/local-projects/> errata.
2017-01-18T14:16:48Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:17:07Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-18T14:17:15Z easye would love to be able to publish "errata" distributions to Quicklisp.  Looking forward to this Spring.  You coming to ELS 2017 to present something?
2017-01-18T14:17:34Z Xach: I do not plan to
2017-01-18T14:17:39Z easye: Aw.
2017-01-18T14:17:47Z easye: We miss ya.
2017-01-18T14:17:57Z Xach: I've always enjoyed it
2017-01-18T14:18:10Z easye: Bang a cup?
2017-01-18T14:18:21Z easye: Or is it time/space rather than money?
2017-01-18T14:18:38Z flip214: after the fundraiser money shouldn't be the issue any more ;)
2017-01-18T14:19:03Z Xach: The fundraiser will help me live for a while, after that it is more hustle
2017-01-18T14:19:18Z flip214: of course, as a participating party I'd also like to see the money invested in QL _output_ ;)
2017-01-18T14:19:19Z Xach: Trips to conferences have not led to business in the past
2017-01-18T14:19:28Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:20:49Z easye: Outreach is a type of output.
2017-01-18T14:20:57Z cmatei joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:22:08Z Xach was able to verify a signature successfully yesterday, making progress towards more secure quicklisp
2017-01-18T14:22:33Z easye thinks ELS 2017 could potentially by super-majority non-Lispers in being co-located with \Programming.
2017-01-18T14:23:00Z dlowe: Xach: woo
2017-01-18T14:23:08Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-18T14:23:46Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-18T14:23:46Z Oladon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-18T14:25:01Z Oladon joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:25:10Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T14:29:04Z Xach has openpgp packet parsing down, and rsa signature verification working, but needs to extract and use sha-N functions from somewhere
2017-01-18T14:29:20Z Xach: ...or make them from scratch, which is less preferable
2017-01-18T14:29:26Z easye: Ironclad.
2017-01-18T14:29:28Z z0d: preferably not from openssl ;-)
2017-01-18T14:30:12Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:30:28Z Xach: Ironclad's implementation is tough.
2017-01-18T14:30:58Z Xach: It has its own macro framework of implementing families of digests and other crypto stuff that makes it hard to get a clear version of e.g. sha-1/256/512.
2017-01-18T14:32:57Z ecthiender joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:34:19Z antoszka: Xach: Can't you just include ironclad? Too big?
2017-01-18T14:34:41Z Xach: antoszka: I need to put it in a single bootstrap file, so I want to get bare-bones.
2017-01-18T14:34:48Z antoszka: Yeah, right.
2017-01-18T14:34:50Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T14:35:00Z antoszka: I don't know any other than ironclad either.
2017-01-18T14:35:42Z Xach: I have an sha-1 someone sent me, I'll start from there and look around for others.
2017-01-18T14:39:50Z Xach: heh, http://www.siftsoft.com/dl/sha1-horror-genre.lisp
2017-01-18T14:40:13Z antoszka: :)
2017-01-18T14:40:26Z frug72 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T14:41:03Z z0d: wow. that's a lotta macros
2017-01-18T14:42:26Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T14:42:29Z frug72 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:42:37Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T14:42:57Z phoe: ;;; By Anton Kovalenko, July 2011. Public domain.  Keep away from children!
2017-01-18T14:42:58Z phoe: ;;; (lest they think such code is a common Common Lisp practice...)
2017-01-18T14:43:20Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-18T14:44:10Z phoe: (defmacro with-awfully-unsafe-compilation ...)
2017-01-18T14:44:13Z phoe: I giggled
2017-01-18T14:45:57Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T14:47:10Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:47:10Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Changing host)
2017-01-18T14:47:10Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:48:09Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-18T14:50:26Z ecthiender quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T14:53:41Z flip214: isn't SHA1 considered dead too, nowadays?
2017-01-18T14:54:09Z flip214: what's the usecase... making sure that the data wasn't corrupted by bitrot, or digital signatures?
2017-01-18T14:54:19Z flip214: for the latter SHA256 is minimum, I believe
2017-01-18T14:54:22Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-18T14:56:05Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T14:57:02Z flip214: Xach: Vacietis seems to be able to convert https://raw.githubusercontent.com/B-Con/crypto-algorithms/master/sha256.c
2017-01-18T14:57:35Z flip214: or at least can parse the C, after replacing "WORD" with eg. "int"
2017-01-18T14:57:54Z flip214: that might be the easiest way to get a CL implementation of sha256
2017-01-18T14:58:18Z handlex quit (Quit: handlex)
2017-01-18T14:58:53Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-18T14:59:36Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:01:09Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:02:20Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T15:04:27Z phoe: flip214: I'm now very curious to try loading this file with WITH-C-SYNTAX
2017-01-18T15:05:04Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:05:10Z kodnin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T15:05:42Z flip214: well, it's easy enough...
2017-01-18T15:05:47Z flip214: just some bitbanging
2017-01-18T15:05:49Z dlowe: vacietis doesn't actually produce lisp code, though
2017-01-18T15:05:56Z dlowe: it produces a small vm with some bytecode
2017-01-18T15:06:35Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:07:12Z flip214: with-input-from-string for the C parts ;)
2017-01-18T15:09:51Z gavilancomun joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:09:56Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:09:57Z gavilancomun quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-18T15:11:22Z scymtym__ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:14:40Z OTS_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:14:41Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Killed (sinisalo.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
2017-01-18T15:15:20Z m00natic` joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:15:36Z mindCrime quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-18T15:15:40Z OTS__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T15:15:43Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:15:58Z mindCrime joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:16:49Z jason_m` quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2017-01-18T15:16:49Z m00natic quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2017-01-18T15:17:21Z groovy2shoes quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-18T15:17:22Z mishoo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T15:17:40Z groovy2shoes joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:18:19Z cibs_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:18:33Z Walex2 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:18:38Z jibanes quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2017-01-18T15:18:43Z finnrobi_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:18:43Z Walex quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2017-01-18T15:18:46Z jibanes joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:18:49Z phadthai_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:18:50Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:18:52Z whiteline quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-18T15:18:53Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 502 seconds)
2017-01-18T15:18:53Z scymtym__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T15:18:54Z m_zr0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:18:57Z scymtym__ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:18:58Z cibs quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T15:18:58Z phadthai quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T15:18:59Z wooden__ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:19:08Z whiteline joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:19:20Z rudi quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:20Z burton` quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:20Z sellout- quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:20Z Tristam quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:20Z Guest44896 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:20Z Quadrescence quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:20Z wooden_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:20Z phoe quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:20Z unbalancedparen quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:20Z vibs29 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:20Z killmaster quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:20Z shymega quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z alms_clozure quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z gbyers quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z tobel quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z arjenve quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z mrSpec quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z kilimanjaro quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z derrida quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z bounb quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z gz_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z rotty quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z askatasuna quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z sepi`` quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z danieli quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z Reinisch quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z Karunamon quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z ghostlight quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z m_zr0 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z CEnnis91 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z rann quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z unrahul quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:21Z asedeno quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:22Z zymurgy quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:22Z Subfusc quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:22Z sebboh quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:22Z Firedancer quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:22Z _death quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:22Z qlkzy_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:22Z lpaste quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:22Z djinni` quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:22Z cpt_nemo quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:22Z Zotan quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:22Z finnrobi quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:22Z les quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T15:19:28Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:19:33Z Zotan joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:19:34Z sebboh joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:19:35Z Subfusc joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:19:39Z rotty joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:20:05Z Tristam joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:20:06Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:20:36Z zymurgy joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:20:45Z phadthai_ is now known as phadthai
2017-01-18T15:20:57Z ggherdov quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-18T15:21:00Z Karunamon joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:21:30Z djinni` joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:21:49Z lpaste joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:06Z les joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:43Z tomaw is now known as 02HAAAAAN
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z shymega joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z bounb joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z sepi`` joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z arjenve joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z cpt_nemo joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z rudi joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z burton` joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z unbalancedparen joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z vibs29 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z killmaster joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z mrSpec joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z derrida joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z danieli joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z Reinisch joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z Firedancer joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z _death joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:22:44Z qlkzy_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:23:03Z unbalancedparen quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-18T15:23:03Z danieli quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-18T15:23:06Z bounb quit (Changing host)
2017-01-18T15:23:06Z bounb joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:23:06Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:23:20Z danieli_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:23:34Z rudi quit (Quit: rudi)
2017-01-18T15:23:42Z giraffe joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:23:42Z alienbot quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-18T15:23:46Z unbalancedparen joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:23:51Z giraffe is now known as Guest98986
2017-01-18T15:23:56Z nydel quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T15:24:17Z tobel joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:24:34Z nydel joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:24:50Z angular_mike_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T15:25:08Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:25:13Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:25:28Z rann joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:25:50Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:26:08Z asedeno joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:26:28Z gbyers joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:26:40Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:27:27Z unrahul joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:28:20Z azzamsa_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:29:14Z ggherdov joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:29:28Z pierpa` joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:29:45Z pierpa` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T15:30:07Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:30:11Z kilimanjaro joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:30:42Z pierpa quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-18T15:30:59Z ggherdov quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-18T15:30:59Z PuercoPop: case on characters is undefined behaviour right?
2017-01-18T15:31:16Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:32:10Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:32:34Z ggherdov joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:33:20Z brfennpocock joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:33:31Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T15:34:07Z loke: PuercoPop: No.
2017-01-18T15:34:27Z alienbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T15:34:41Z loke: CASE uses EQL to compare the elements.
2017-01-18T15:35:09Z angular_mike_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:35:28Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:37:08Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:37:37Z scymtym__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T15:37:56Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-18T15:38:20Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:38:35Z alms_clozure joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:38:37Z PuercoPop: loke: ah, don't know why I thought that eql was only for numbers. Thanks
2017-01-18T15:39:46Z gz_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:42:07Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T15:42:43Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:44:11Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:44:29Z rumbler3_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T15:44:47Z akorotkov joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:45:29Z phoe_: PuercoPop: = is only for numbers.
2017-01-18T15:45:30Z phoe_: clhs eql
2017-01-18T15:45:31Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_eql.htm
2017-01-18T15:46:07Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:46:08Z phoe_: [Two objects, x and y are true, if ...] 3. If they are both characters that represent the same character.
2017-01-18T15:47:01Z travv0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T15:47:13Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:47:19Z loke: is (= (char-code (code-char x)) x) true for all x?
2017-01-18T15:47:53Z loke: And (eql (code-char (char-code x)) x)
2017-01-18T15:48:12Z malice`: PuercoPop: probably because eql is the first that works for numbers form the eq/l/ual(p)
2017-01-18T15:48:27Z malice`: PuercoPop: and when using e.g. hash-table you can't use functions like #'= so you go with eql
2017-01-18T15:50:02Z _death: iirc the only operator that uses EQ by default is GETF
2017-01-18T15:50:51Z akorotkov is now known as akorotkov_
2017-01-18T15:51:08Z _death: (and GET-PROPERTIES)
2017-01-18T15:51:18Z scymtym: loke: one counterexample is (code-char (char-code #\Line_Tabulation)) => #\Vt
2017-01-18T15:51:30Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:51:42Z mood: loke: I don't think the standard guarantees (code-char (char-code some-character)) always returns a character eql to some-character, but the other way around should be true
2017-01-18T15:51:42Z _death: and GET.. plist operators
2017-01-18T15:51:54Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-18T15:52:06Z Xach: scymtym: is it?
2017-01-18T15:52:51Z Xach: scymtym: do you mean they print differently, or they are not eql?
2017-01-18T15:53:03Z scymtym: Xach: you are right, i didn't read properly
2017-01-18T15:53:08Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:54:12Z scymtym: Xach: they don't even print differently, it's just the reader, i think
2017-01-18T15:56:35Z Xach: ok
2017-01-18T15:57:22Z pillton quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T15:59:12Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T15:59:15Z vaporatorius quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-18T16:00:19Z travv0 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-18T16:00:46Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:02:02Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:02:15Z williamyaoh joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:03:42Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:05:04Z durm joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:05:56Z akorotkov_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T16:08:29Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-18T16:08:31Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:11:40Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-18T16:12:03Z ogamita quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-18T16:14:38Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:16:55Z ogamita joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:17:12Z gavilancomun joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:18:53Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-18T16:21:02Z rumbler3_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T16:30:09Z azzamsa_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-18T16:30:38Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:31:23Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-18T16:36:23Z azzamsa_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:39:50Z Denommus joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:41:51Z Denommus quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-18T16:42:15Z Denommus joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:46:03Z ogamita` joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:48:10Z ogamita quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T16:49:17Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T16:53:20Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-18T16:55:45Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:56:32Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-18T16:57:08Z sirkmatija quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T16:57:14Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-18T16:57:35Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:58:53Z vicfred joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:59:24Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-18T16:59:33Z gavilancomun quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507])
2017-01-18T17:00:59Z jasom:  Additional, implementation-defined attributes of characters are also permitted so that, for example, two characters with the same code may differ in some other, implementation-defined way.
2017-01-18T17:02:42Z loke: scymtym: The #\Vt case isn't really valid. They both READ as the same character (with code 11)
2017-01-18T17:03:06Z scymtym: loke: yeah, Xach pointed that out to me
2017-01-18T17:03:16Z jasom: however I can't think of any current implementations for which (eql (code-char (char-code x)) x)  won't be true
2017-01-18T17:03:24Z jasom: (= (char-code (code-char x)) x) is not true for all x
2017-01-18T17:03:57Z loke: jasom: Yeah, I think the only case are attributes, which no Lisp implementation that I know of supports.
2017-01-18T17:04:14Z jasom: e.g. (let ((x (1+ char-code-limit)))
2017-01-18T17:04:40Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-18T17:05:07Z jasom: and scymtym's example is nonsensical because #\Line_tabulation => Vt
2017-01-18T17:05:09Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T17:05:24Z jasom: and clearly (eql x x) is true for all valid characters x
2017-01-18T17:06:50Z loke: Reading the spec explains that most of the properties of the code, and all properties of other attributes are implementation-defined.
2017-01-18T17:07:10Z loke: That suggests to me that it's _possible_, although I think it's safe to say that it never actually happens.
2017-01-18T17:07:26Z jasom: another example for (= (char-code (code-char x)) x) not being true is 55296 on ccl
2017-01-18T17:07:46Z jasom: b/c (code-char 55296) => nil
2017-01-18T17:08:08Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T17:08:15Z loke: jasom: Ah, surrogate pairs?
2017-01-18T17:08:29Z jasom: so 55296 is a valid character code (i.e. less than char-code-limit) but it does not represent any character on ccl
2017-01-18T17:08:52Z phoe_: jasom: I've been through that place some time ago.
2017-01-18T17:09:00Z jasom: sbcl has a filler character for it of #\UD800
2017-01-18T17:09:13Z phoe_: some characters (namely, the unicode user-definable spectrum) don't have code-chars on CCL.
2017-01-18T17:09:15Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-18T17:09:22Z kodnin quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-18T17:09:36Z loke: CCL is probably better in that respect. What happens if I take a string containing U+D800 and write it to an UTF-16 stream?
2017-01-18T17:09:47Z loke: I'll get a corrupt stream, that's what'll happen... I think.
2017-01-18T17:09:55Z jasom: loke: hopefully an encoding error?
2017-01-18T17:10:10Z loke: You'd hope.
2017-01-18T17:10:12Z loke: I will try.
2017-01-18T17:10:53Z loke: Hah...
2017-01-18T17:11:05Z loke: Typing this into Emacs gives an internal protocol-error from SLIME:
2017-01-18T17:11:06Z loke: 55296
2017-01-18T17:11:07Z loke: Oops
2017-01-18T17:11:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-18T17:11:19Z loke: (format nil "foo~cbar" (code-char 55296))
2017-01-18T17:11:29Z loke: Loops promising.
2017-01-18T17:11:56Z sirkmatija quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T17:12:24Z jasom: :UTF-16LE stream encoding error on
2017-01-18T17:12:35Z jasom: I would have been quite sad otherwise
2017-01-18T17:13:07Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-18T17:13:15Z ryanwatkins quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-18T17:13:23Z loke: jasom: I didn.t
2017-01-18T17:13:28Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-18T17:13:38Z loke: I used FLEXI-STREAMS though, and it gave me a corrupt stream (a bare high surrogate)
2017-01-18T17:14:12Z loke: I'll try with SBCL's internal encoder
2017-01-18T17:14:29Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-18T17:14:35Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-18T17:14:57Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T17:17:00Z loke: Right, SBCL gives me an encoding error when trying to write it to an UTF-16 stream.
2017-01-18T17:17:05Z loke: So flexi-streams is bad.
2017-01-18T17:18:09Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-18T17:18:47Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-18T17:19:11Z ryanwatkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-18T17:19:24Z jasom is not surprised
2017-01-18T17:20:00Z jasom: sbcl's unicode support is fairly solid
2017-01-18T17:20:50Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-18T17:21:06Z loke: jasom: Yes, especially since they got the SB-UNICODE stuff.
2017-01-18T17:25:00Z HeyFlash- quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T17:26:28Z cibs_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T17:28:10Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-18T17:28:10Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-18T17:33:48Z ogamita` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T17:34:46Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T17:35:10Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-18T17:35:46Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-18T17:36:19Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-18T17:37:02Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T17:41:00Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T17:43:11Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-18T17:44:08Z BigSafari quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-18T17:47:48Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T17:56:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T17:57:04Z loke quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T17:59:27Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:00:50Z m00natic` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T18:03:25Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:04:37Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-18T18:05:31Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-18T18:06:29Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:07:55Z froggey joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:11:51Z raynold_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:14:22Z handlex quit (Quit: handlex)
2017-01-18T18:15:06Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:24:14Z alexherbo2 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-18T18:24:52Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-18T18:24:53Z Ven_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:26:09Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:26:14Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:27:05Z let42: Hi cheers
2017-01-18T18:27:51Z let42: i am a student of lisp at the university of milano-bicocca
2017-01-18T18:28:11Z H4ns: let42: welcome to the common #lisp channel
2017-01-18T18:28:11Z jackdaniel: hey let42 o/
2017-01-18T18:28:22Z let42: thanks to all
2017-01-18T18:29:38Z let42: i've some questions about eval apply and lambda
2017-01-18T18:30:06Z lisp_in_2017 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:30:36Z jackdaniel: ask right away. It's better to just ask questions, not ask to ask, since IRC is very asynchronous at times
2017-01-18T18:30:51Z let42: ok
2017-01-18T18:31:35Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:31:48Z let42: on apply, why i can't use apply to a var which point to a lambda expression for example
2017-01-18T18:32:17Z Bike: lambda /expressions/ aren't actual functions
2017-01-18T18:32:18Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-18T18:32:21Z let42: (defvar dbl (lambda (x) (*x 2)))
2017-01-18T18:32:30Z Bike: oh, that's a function
2017-01-18T18:32:40Z Bike: (apply dbl (list 4)) would be fine, if it was (* x 2) of course
2017-01-18T18:33:10Z dlowe: let42: the last argument of apply must be a list. This might be what's tripping you up.
2017-01-18T18:33:14Z jackdaniel: let42: last argument to apply is a list
2017-01-18T18:33:17Z jackdaniel: ah
2017-01-18T18:33:46Z let42: so if i type (apply dbl '(2)) is correct?
2017-01-18T18:34:06Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:34:18Z dlowe: if you know the number of arguments in advance, you should probably use funcall instead
2017-01-18T18:34:26Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:34:30Z dlowe: (funcall dbl 2) is a bit simpler to use
2017-01-18T18:34:48Z jackdaniel: yes (except the typo you made in your lambda expression – "(defvar dbl (lambda (x) (* x 2)))" – note the space between * and x)
2017-01-18T18:34:53Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:35:46Z azzamsa_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T18:36:13Z let42: jackdaniel, i don't understand, what you mean?
2017-01-18T18:36:40Z Bike: you had "*x", which would be interpreted as a single symbol, instead of * and then x.
2017-01-18T18:36:41Z jackdaniel: "(*x 2)" is different than "(* x 2)"
2017-01-18T18:36:58Z jackdaniel: the formers means: "call function '*x' with argument 2"
2017-01-18T18:37:15Z jackdaniel: the latter means: "call function '*' with arguments 'x' and 2"
2017-01-18T18:37:17Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:37:18Z jackdaniel: s/formers/former/
2017-01-18T18:37:40Z let42: ah ok when i type i don't mind the whitespace, i'm sorry in the repl is correct
2017-01-18T18:38:24Z let42: i type (defvar dbl (lambda (x) (* x 2)))
2017-01-18T18:38:33Z let42: in the repl
2017-01-18T18:38:38Z jackdaniel: OK
2017-01-18T18:38:53Z let42: thank you
2017-01-18T18:39:56Z let42: let and lambda are the same thing or there a little difference between their and how i should use correctly
2017-01-18T18:41:05Z froggey joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:43:04Z jackdaniel: minion: tell let42 about pcl
2017-01-18T18:43:04Z minion: let42: please see pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2017-01-18T18:43:34Z jackdaniel: you can express let in terms of lambda, but in practice lambda makes a function, while let creates new lexical scope
2017-01-18T18:45:06Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:45:46Z test1600_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-18T18:50:17Z let42: ok
2017-01-18T18:54:00Z let42: that's all for now thank you for your time
2017-01-18T18:57:32Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:58:10Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T18:58:40Z scottj joined #lisp
2017-01-18T18:59:39Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-18T19:12:40Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T19:12:43Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-18T19:20:03Z jasom quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-18T19:20:20Z jasom joined #lisp
2017-01-18T19:25:27Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-18T19:29:17Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-18T19:31:27Z impulse joined #lisp
2017-01-18T19:33:52Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T19:35:06Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-18T19:38:39Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T19:40:34Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T19:43:17Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-18T19:43:27Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-18T19:48:04Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-18T19:50:10Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-18T19:50:29Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T19:51:56Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T19:52:16Z handlex quit (Quit: handlex)
2017-01-18T19:56:50Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-18T19:57:37Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T20:00:21Z mada is now known as madariaga
2017-01-18T20:05:50Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T20:10:48Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-18T20:11:06Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-18T20:13:21Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-18T20:13:34Z void__ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T20:20:35Z 02HAAAAAN is now known as tomaw
2017-01-18T20:20:37Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T20:23:02Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T20:25:04Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-18T20:27:43Z BigSafari quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-18T20:30:19Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-18T20:31:18Z void__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-18T20:34:02Z void__ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T20:34:31Z Orion3k quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T20:34:54Z l0g1k3r joined #lisp
2017-01-18T20:42:49Z rumbler3_ quit
2017-01-18T20:45:44Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T20:46:17Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T20:47:24Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-18T20:50:10Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T20:50:17Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T20:50:36Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-18T20:50:36Z chronull joined #lisp
2017-01-18T20:50:47Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-18T20:52:54Z l0g1k3r quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T20:54:29Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-18T20:55:39Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T20:56:15Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-18T20:56:38Z xuxuru quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-18T20:57:16Z handlex quit (Quit: handlex)
2017-01-18T20:58:10Z jcloud joined #lisp
2017-01-18T20:58:19Z jcloud is now known as jyc`
2017-01-18T21:01:27Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-18T21:02:02Z diogofranco: anyone knows what this mkcl thing differs from ecl?
2017-01-18T21:02:32Z jyc` is now known as jcloud
2017-01-18T21:03:16Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-18T21:04:10Z jackdaniel: diogofranco: it is a fork with initial focus on windows. that's all I know. didn't find any info, why was it forked though.
2017-01-18T21:04:26Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T21:04:53Z jackdaniel: also its license is lgpl3+ (while ecl is lgpl2+)
2017-01-18T21:05:30Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T21:08:23Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-18T21:09:58Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-18T21:10:49Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-18T21:12:05Z void__ left #lisp
2017-01-18T21:15:40Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T21:16:10Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T21:18:26Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-18T21:19:57Z diogofranco: jackdaniel: thanks. I tried to find out more about it too, but the author doesn't seem to love documentation ^^
2017-01-18T21:25:40Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T21:26:19Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-18T21:30:37Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-18T21:33:07Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-18T21:33:58Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-18T21:37:29Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-18T21:37:32Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T21:40:27Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-18T21:44:50Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-18T21:48:25Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-18T21:48:41Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-18T21:50:42Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-18T21:50:46Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-18T21:53:08Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-18T21:53:10Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T21:53:19Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-18T21:53:28Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-18T21:55:18Z xlet42x joined #lisp
2017-01-18T21:56:12Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-18T21:56:42Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-18T21:58:03Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-18T22:00:32Z xlet42x quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
2017-01-18T22:02:10Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-18T22:03:26Z scottj quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-18T22:03:44Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T22:03:47Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-18T22:03:51Z raynold_ is now known as raynold[away]
2017-01-18T22:08:20Z rumbler3_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T22:09:20Z diogofranco quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T22:14:58Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-18T22:18:15Z unbalanced quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-18T22:21:32Z wildbartty joined #lisp
2017-01-18T22:26:02Z pillton joined #lisp
2017-01-18T22:28:34Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-18T22:29:56Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-18T22:30:07Z rumbler3_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T22:31:43Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T22:38:40Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T22:39:34Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-18T22:40:47Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-18T22:43:06Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-18T22:45:23Z let42 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-18T22:46:47Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-18T22:50:51Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-18T22:54:52Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-18T22:54:55Z travv0 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-18T22:58:04Z rlatimore joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:09:33Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-18T23:10:15Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-18T23:16:28Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T23:24:24Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-18T23:24:35Z wildbartty quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T23:24:35Z Jesin quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T23:24:35Z jasom quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T23:24:35Z cibs quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T23:24:35Z vicfred quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T23:24:35Z djinni` quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T23:24:35Z LiamH quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T23:24:35Z jdz quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T23:24:35Z flip214 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T23:24:35Z nowolfer quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T23:24:35Z lonjil quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T23:24:35Z xantoz quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T23:24:35Z SlashLife quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T23:24:35Z adolf_stalin quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-18T23:24:53Z wildbartty joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:24:53Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:24:53Z jasom joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:24:53Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:24:53Z vicfred joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:24:53Z djinni` joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:24:53Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:24:53Z jdz joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:24:53Z flip214 joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:24:53Z nowolfer joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:24:53Z lonjil joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:24:53Z xantoz joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:24:53Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:24:53Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:24:57Z bpf quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T23:25:17Z eschatologist quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-18T23:30:36Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:31:41Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:32:18Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:40:55Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-18T23:42:10Z karswell` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-18T23:48:58Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-18T23:50:43Z danieli_ is now known as danieli
2017-01-18T23:50:44Z danieli quit (Changing host)
2017-01-18T23:50:44Z danieli joined #lisp
2017-01-18T23:53:01Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-19T00:01:23Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T00:04:38Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-19T00:04:48Z aeth: I am probably doing type checking horribly wrong: https://gitlab.com/zombie-raptor/zombie-raptor/blob/master/core/window.lisp#L156-191
2017-01-19T00:04:59Z aeth: At the very least, it looks extremely complicated and it's only going to get more complicated over time.
2017-01-19T00:05:29Z Bike: jesus christ
2017-01-19T00:05:57Z aeth: Oh, I should probably use a permanent link: https://gitlab.com/zombie-raptor/zombie-raptor/blob/5cc9fafe41e6693b11d6077796569fc5561cecd4/core/window.lisp#L156-191
2017-01-19T00:14:04Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-19T00:15:24Z BusFactor1 quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-19T00:15:39Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-19T00:27:31Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-19T00:29:06Z butchster quit
2017-01-19T00:34:03Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T00:34:20Z williamyaoh joined #lisp
2017-01-19T00:35:10Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-19T00:39:22Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-19T00:39:28Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2017-01-19T00:41:56Z brfennpocock quit (Quit: home again, home again, jigglety-jig)
2017-01-19T00:44:18Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-19T00:49:19Z quazimod1 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T00:49:25Z quazimod2 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T00:49:29Z quazimod3 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T00:54:41Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T00:58:35Z madariaga quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T00:59:09Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T00:59:32Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-19T01:00:24Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-19T01:05:01Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-19T01:05:47Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-19T01:06:52Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-19T01:07:52Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-19T01:17:14Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T01:17:23Z Xach: aeth: ruff
2017-01-19T01:17:37Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-19T01:19:56Z Xach: Hmm. I wonder what kind of overlap there is for #lisp from 2017 vs #lisp from 2007 or 2002.
2017-01-19T01:20:02Z Xach: how time flies :~(
2017-01-19T01:24:39Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-19T01:25:44Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-19T01:27:29Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-19T01:30:19Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-19T01:39:08Z akkad:  does mop have something better for handling this sort of cond? ((equal (find-class klass) (find-class 'metis::errorMessage)) (setf slotv errorMessage))
2017-01-19T01:39:09Z akkad:  
2017-01-19T01:40:28Z Bike: (eq (class-name klass) 'metis::errorMessage), maybe?
2017-01-19T01:40:45Z Xach: klass?
2017-01-19T01:42:30Z Bike: er, if klass is a klass, it would just be eq
2017-01-19T01:42:36Z Bike: class name. symbol damn
2017-01-19T01:43:55Z akkad: https://gist.github.com/fcc913eb04f263c71229c105dffe6a49 the actual code I need to refactor to something sane
2017-01-19T01:46:35Z Bike: (eq klass 'metis::whatever) seems ok to me there
2017-01-19T01:47:19Z alienbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T02:04:52Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:05:01Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T02:08:35Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:14:49Z akkad: k. thanks
2017-01-19T02:16:35Z yeticry quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-19T02:17:40Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T02:17:44Z rlatimore quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-19T02:18:12Z jao joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:19:46Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:25:57Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:26:42Z azzamsa_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:27:41Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-19T02:28:00Z williamyaoh joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:32:28Z cromachina_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:33:22Z logicmoo joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:33:33Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:33:38Z mklk_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:33:40Z rumbler3_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T02:34:16Z sebboh` joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:34:17Z reepca` joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:34:59Z unrahul_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:35:55Z prhodes joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:36:06Z jean377_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:36:22Z hydraz joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:36:23Z hydraz quit (Changing host)
2017-01-19T02:36:23Z hydraz joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:36:27Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:36:35Z quazimod2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T02:36:35Z quazimodo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T02:36:35Z quazimod3 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T02:36:35Z quazimod1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T02:36:50Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:36:54Z pok_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:36:56Z o`connor_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:36:57Z tokik_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:37:19Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:37:21Z paroneay` joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:37:23Z MightyJoe joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:37:41Z otwieracz quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-19T02:37:49Z __SiCC__ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:37:51Z otwierac1 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:38:01Z otwierac1 is now known as otwieracz
2017-01-19T02:40:49Z tokenrov1 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:40:54Z ecraven- joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:41:11Z raydeejay_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z xuxuru quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z zooey quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z rumbler31 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z travv0` quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z cromachina quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z Kaisyu quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z Ven_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z angular_mike_ quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z unrahul quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z sebboh quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z groovy2shoes quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z mindCrime quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z frug72 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z arrsim quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z slyrus quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z n3k0_t quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z nicdev quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z alphor quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z itruslove quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z cyraxjoe quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z dmiles quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z brucem quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z tokenrove quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z tokik quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z reepca quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z antoszka quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z mklk quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z gko quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z toogley quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z paroneayea quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z cantstanya quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:55Z pok quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:56Z amused quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:56Z raydeejay quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:56Z TeMPOraL quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:56Z ecraven quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:56Z o`connor quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:56Z SiCC quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:56Z jean377 quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T02:41:56Z raydeejay_ is now known as raydeejay
2017-01-19T02:41:56Z ecraven- is now known as ecraven
2017-01-19T02:42:17Z pok_ is now known as pok
2017-01-19T02:43:25Z unrahul_ is now known as unrahul
2017-01-19T02:44:03Z n3k0_t joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:45:57Z paroneay` is now known as paroneayea
2017-01-19T02:46:39Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:48:41Z toogley joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:48:57Z TeMPOraL joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:49:33Z slyrus joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:49:57Z antoszka joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:50:27Z groovy2shoes joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:50:33Z cantstanya joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:53:19Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:54:21Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:54:42Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-19T02:59:05Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-19T02:59:59Z alphor joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:00:09Z schjetne quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T03:01:05Z frug72 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:02:02Z tokik_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-19T03:02:23Z tokik joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:02:35Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:03:22Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:04:30Z itruslove joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:04:38Z madariaga joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:05:10Z arrsim joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:05:20Z brucem joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:05:35Z gko joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:06:03Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:06:09Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:09:05Z l04m33 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T03:09:29Z wtetzner quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T03:09:37Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:15:28Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:16:12Z xuxuru joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:18:49Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:21:22Z wildbartty quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T03:22:03Z l04m33 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:25:20Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-19T03:28:55Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:32:07Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:37:22Z nicdev joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:37:45Z nicdev quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T03:39:12Z nicdev joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:39:34Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:41:18Z macdavid314 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T03:41:31Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-19T03:41:31Z macdavid314 is now known as macdavid313
2017-01-19T03:42:29Z bigos quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T03:50:03Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-19T03:52:50Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T03:53:40Z l04m33 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T03:55:47Z l04m33 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T04:00:07Z arquebus joined #lisp
2017-01-19T04:03:38Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-19T04:07:55Z wildbartty joined #lisp
2017-01-19T04:08:40Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T04:10:12Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-19T04:13:07Z wildbartty quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T04:18:58Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T04:19:11Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-19T04:19:36Z vicfred quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T04:20:34Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-19T04:20:57Z DrCode quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T04:21:13Z arquebus quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-19T04:24:51Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-19T04:26:28Z DrCode joined #lisp
2017-01-19T04:31:58Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-19T04:32:40Z angular_mike_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T04:40:19Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T04:41:22Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T04:43:33Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T04:43:46Z macdavid314 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T04:44:19Z macdavid313 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T04:44:19Z macdavid314 is now known as macdavid313
2017-01-19T04:46:14Z xuxuru quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-19T04:49:01Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-19T04:49:45Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T04:58:10Z azzamsa_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T05:00:32Z test1600 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T05:00:44Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-19T05:01:20Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T05:04:30Z test1600 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T05:04:36Z aeth: ugh, I can't just do "#! /usr/bin/env sbcl --script" because env is stupid and tries to find "sbcl\ --script" instead of passing "--script" to "sbcl"
2017-01-19T05:05:40Z aeth: but I also can't assume it'll be at /usr/bin/sbcl. For one, /usr/local/bin/sbcl is what literally every example uses as the path so I know one or the other will fail on a lot of computers
2017-01-19T05:06:02Z PuercoPop: aeth: there is cl-launch
2017-01-19T05:07:36Z PuercoPop: with it you can use #!/usr/bin/cl (although now that I think about it, env would probably be stupid in the case of cl-lauch as well
2017-01-19T05:09:21Z PuercoPop: aeth: maybe you can apply this arcane hack?
2017-01-19T05:09:41Z PuercoPop: https://github.com/fare/cl-launch/blob/master/cl-launch.sh#L773
2017-01-19T05:10:26Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T05:15:08Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T05:17:50Z aeth: I can't seem to get that to work
2017-01-19T05:18:41Z aeth: and customizing that clever hack to something that might work for me takes away the advantage of not using sh, i.e. not playing with fire
2017-01-19T05:20:37Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-19T05:20:37Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-19T05:20:37Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-19T05:21:25Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T05:28:23Z alienbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T05:30:11Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-19T05:31:13Z eschatologist joined #lisp
2017-01-19T05:33:56Z Fare: cl-launch just works
2017-01-19T05:34:03Z Fare: you can use it
2017-01-19T05:34:31Z Fare: (ok, sommething broke with ecl recently... :-( )
2017-01-19T05:37:44Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-19T05:38:57Z aeth: Fare: I can't assume everyone will have cl-launch installed, though
2017-01-19T05:39:05Z lexicall joined #lisp
2017-01-19T05:39:53Z Fare: it's small enough that it can be shipped with source code to create an app
2017-01-19T05:40:42Z Fare: which makes me think of another output mode that could be used, using monolithic-concatenate-source-op
2017-01-19T05:42:09Z lexicall quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T05:44:48Z circ-user-IVSJb joined #lisp
2017-01-19T05:49:12Z Fare: at my last job interview, I sent a precompiled SBCL binary as well as source code including cl-launch and instructions on how to re-create the binary on the same or other platforms
2017-01-19T05:50:59Z PuercoPop: Fare: they can't assume cl-launch will be in /usr/bin either
2017-01-19T05:51:17Z Fare: I included cl-launch in the tarball
2017-01-19T05:52:01Z PuercoPop: I meant for aeth's use case. Their initial grievance was not being able to do #!/usr/bin/env scbl --script
2017-01-19T05:52:11Z PuercoPop: I agree that using cl-launch is the easiest solution
2017-01-19T05:53:48Z fitzsim: Hi Fare
2017-01-19T05:54:07Z fitzsim: Fare: I'm trying to use sbcl.o (sb-linkable-runtime), but I'm not sure I'm using it properly
2017-01-19T05:55:20Z fitzsim: I statically linked sbcl.o and a tiny other object with one function (just as a test), into an executable
2017-01-19T05:55:36Z fitzsim: on GNU/Linux, glibc 2.22
2017-01-19T05:55:41Z Fare: fitzsim, how are you trying to use it? With cffi-toolchain?
2017-01-19T05:55:53Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-19T05:56:32Z fitzsim: Fare: no, I built it from master (3abb1d...) from your github fork of sbcl.git
2017-01-19T05:58:48Z fitzsim: I guess I'll read about cffi-toolchain
2017-01-19T05:59:50Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:01:06Z fitzsim: anyway, the static link does produce an executable (with a bunch of warnings about runtime-required glibc dynamic libraries)
2017-01-19T06:01:43Z fitzsim: but running the binary results in many corruption warnings, ending in an LDB prompt
2017-01-19T06:02:19Z fitzsim: so I figured I must be using sbcl.o incorrectly :-)
2017-01-19T06:03:30Z madariaga is now known as mada
2017-01-19T06:05:05Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T06:05:29Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:05:40Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:07:21Z Fare: fitzsim, wow, was my cffi PR merged?
2017-01-19T06:08:08Z bocaneri quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-19T06:08:29Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T06:08:51Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:09:35Z Fare: oh, no, it wasn't
2017-01-19T06:09:55Z Fare: so, how are you using it? Are you using my git fork of sbcl?
2017-01-19T06:10:14Z Fare: did you compile it with sb-linkable-runtime ?
2017-01-19T06:10:28Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:11:49Z nelder quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-19T06:12:00Z Fare: fitzsim, you need to build sbcl from my fork with ("sh" "./make.sh" ("--prefix=",(nns install-root)) "--xc-host=/usr/bin/sbcl --disable-debugger --no-userinit --no-sysinit" "--with-sb-threads" "--with-sb-linkable-runtime" "--with-sb-dynamic-core" "--fancy"
2017-01-19T06:12:01Z nelder joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:12:30Z fitzsim: Fare: ok, I only had --fancy --with-sb-linkable-runtime --with-sb-dynamic-core
2017-01-19T06:12:53Z fitzsim: Fare: will retry with those options
2017-01-19T06:13:29Z Fare: your options should suffice
2017-01-19T06:13:34Z Fare: linux x64 ?
2017-01-19T06:14:02Z fitzsim: Fare: yeah
2017-01-19T06:14:15Z Fare: does the cffi/tests/test-static-linking.sh script work?
2017-01-19T06:14:15Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-19T06:16:40Z Fare: good morning, beach
2017-01-19T06:17:04Z fitzsim: Fare: hadn't seen that until now, will try
2017-01-19T06:17:05Z Fare: fitzsim, please pull the latest cffi from my fork (beware: I just rebased)
2017-01-19T06:17:54Z fitzsim: Fare: done, master branch, right?
2017-01-19T06:18:47Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:19:03Z Fare: uh, might be linkable branch
2017-01-19T06:19:38Z fitzsim: Fare: that's in your sbcl.git -- I saw that you'd rebased that recently
2017-01-19T06:19:58Z Fare: oh, linkable branch for cffi, master branch (I believe) for sbcl
2017-01-19T06:20:35Z Fare: somehow cl-launch seems not to work with ecl for me anymore. I have no idea what stopped working when.
2017-01-19T06:20:44Z fitzsim: ah, "linking" branch in cffi, maybe?
2017-01-19T06:20:49Z Fare: yes
2017-01-19T06:21:07Z fitzsim: ok, fare/cffi.git (linking) + fare/sbcl.git (master)
2017-01-19T06:21:19Z fitzsim: will try those together, probably with the options you suggested above too
2017-01-19T06:22:25Z Fare: yes. please send me mail regarding success or failure
2017-01-19T06:22:52Z Fare: works for me on ubuntu linux x64
2017-01-19T06:23:06Z Fare: previously also win64 and macOS
2017-01-19T06:24:16Z fitzsim: will do
2017-01-19T06:26:10Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-19T06:30:07Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:31:35Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:32:51Z aeth quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-19T06:33:29Z BigSafari quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T06:33:40Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:34:17Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T06:34:56Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-19T06:35:07Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-19T06:35:27Z alienbot quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T06:35:36Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:36:48Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:37:11Z myrkraverk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T06:40:24Z aeth joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:40:56Z wooden__ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T06:41:08Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:49:25Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T06:50:12Z wooden_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:53:01Z PuercoPop: beach: Btw lookingat the singleton parser in SICL's Loop, is there any reason you do (let ((result ...)). It seems to be that (if (funcall predicate ...)) would be simpler https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL/blob/master/Code/Loop/combinatory-parsing.lisp#L75
2017-01-19T06:53:54Z beach: PuercoPop: You are right.
2017-01-19T06:53:55Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T06:54:17Z PuercoPop: (and then you could change the (when (null ...)) to an (if (and (not (null)) (funcall predicate ...))) but that would be a matter of style
2017-01-19T06:54:52Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-19T06:56:08Z beach: In the same function, you mean?
2017-01-19T06:58:13Z PuercoPop: yeah, so it would look like this: http://paste.lisp.org/+77Z7
2017-01-19T06:58:50Z beach: Ah, OK.  Yes, much simpler.  Thanks.
2017-01-19T06:59:11Z PuercoPop: I know some people don't like to use AND in such a way because it is unnecessarily 'clever' as opposed to clear, so it comes down to a personal preference
2017-01-19T06:59:40Z beach: It is fine here, because only Booleans are tested.
2017-01-19T07:01:34Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-19T07:02:57Z PuercoPop: beach: ok, I'll submit a PR then
2017-01-19T07:03:03Z beach: No need.
2017-01-19T07:03:07Z beach: I just fixed it.
2017-01-19T07:03:24Z PuercoPop: ah beter yet!
2017-01-19T07:03:42Z beach: Thanks again for pointing that out.
2017-01-19T07:05:11Z PuercoPop: beach: np. I'm glad I could help
2017-01-19T07:05:29Z beach: Keep them coming! :)
2017-01-19T07:07:57Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-19T07:14:05Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-19T07:16:40Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T07:17:03Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-19T07:20:10Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T07:20:36Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-19T07:24:49Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-19T07:25:14Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T07:30:59Z Oladon1 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T07:31:40Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-19T07:32:10Z Oladon quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T07:35:11Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-19T07:37:13Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-19T07:40:37Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-19T07:41:35Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T07:43:34Z circ-user-IVSJb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T07:45:18Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T07:46:10Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-19T07:46:29Z flip214: Is the CXML maintainer here? David?
2017-01-19T07:47:02Z shka quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T07:47:26Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-19T07:48:11Z sirkmatija quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-19T07:54:20Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T07:54:53Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-19T07:56:46Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-19T07:58:57Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-19T07:59:08Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-19T07:59:55Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:03:00Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:08:30Z d4ryus2 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:09:56Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:11:21Z bpf joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:11:37Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:11:41Z d4ryus1 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T08:14:51Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:18:31Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:25:11Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:26:02Z alexherbo2 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:26:46Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-19T08:27:19Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T08:29:40Z ecthiender joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:30:05Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:39:11Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-19T08:40:56Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:43:09Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T08:44:31Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:44:33Z scymtym quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T08:45:06Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:45:44Z gaya2 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:46:39Z gaya2: How do I define a output-filename for (asdf:operate 'asdf:monolithic-concatenate-source-op :system-name) ?
2017-01-19T08:52:37Z scymtym__ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T08:52:49Z scymtym_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T08:56:48Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-19T08:58:15Z jurov quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-19T09:03:23Z askatasuna quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T09:03:32Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:03:41Z jurov joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:04:02Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:04:24Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T09:06:03Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:06:57Z msmith quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-19T09:07:16Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:07:20Z hhdave_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:07:47Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T09:07:47Z hhdave_ is now known as hhdave
2017-01-19T09:11:01Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T09:11:01Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T09:11:39Z kodnin quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-19T09:12:40Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T09:13:02Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:15:17Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:20:29Z msmith joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:20:40Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T09:21:18Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:22:38Z arduo joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:24:38Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:25:44Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:25:46Z smokeink joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:26:57Z ogamita joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:28:29Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-19T09:30:55Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:36:04Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T09:39:19Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:42:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T09:43:32Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T09:45:54Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:48:22Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:48:51Z z3r0_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-19T09:49:22Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T09:49:23Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:50:00Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-19T09:52:04Z lisp_in_2017 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-19T09:52:53Z z3r0_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T09:53:03Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-19T09:54:19Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-19T09:57:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T10:00:28Z gaya2 left #lisp
2017-01-19T10:00:29Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T10:01:23Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-19T10:01:42Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-19T10:02:56Z ogamita quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-19T10:03:34Z ogamita joined #lisp
2017-01-19T10:17:38Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T10:21:19Z l04m33 quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-19T10:21:54Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-19T10:23:38Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-19T10:25:00Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-19T10:26:30Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-19T10:27:04Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T10:31:18Z SAL9000 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T10:31:19Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T10:31:56Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-19T10:33:02Z zooey quit (*.net *.split)
2017-01-19T10:34:25Z SAL9000 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T10:35:18Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-19T10:39:17Z smokeink quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-19T10:41:56Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T10:45:20Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-19T10:52:31Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2017-01-19T10:55:24Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-19T10:57:43Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-19T10:58:20Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T11:00:24Z krasnal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T11:01:14Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T11:08:58Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T11:12:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-19T11:18:16Z arduo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T11:20:58Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T11:23:43Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-19T11:27:21Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T11:27:29Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T11:28:21Z azzamsa_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T11:30:32Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T11:31:52Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T11:35:13Z dcluna quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-19T11:37:59Z flip214: where's the status list of QL projects' compatibility with different implementations? ISTR there's some big table out there.
2017-01-19T11:39:02Z jackdaniel: https://common-lisp.net/project/cl-test-grid/ql/ for pivotal table
2017-01-19T11:39:15Z jackdaniel: you may mine data from cl-test-grid projects (it's all stored)
2017-01-19T11:39:22Z azzamsa_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-19T11:40:21Z jackdaniel: https://common-lisp.net/project/cl-test-grid/library/ here is for each individual project
2017-01-19T11:41:26Z flip214: jackdaniel: thank you!
2017-01-19T11:42:17Z jackdaniel: antonv does a great job with this project
2017-01-19T11:44:57Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-19T11:45:46Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T11:47:01Z alienbot quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T11:51:13Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-19T11:56:12Z schjetne quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T11:57:13Z quadresce: Component "asdf/defsystem" not found, required by #<SYSTEM "asdf">
2017-01-19T11:57:18Z quadresce: Weird error ...
2017-01-19T11:59:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-19T12:00:27Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T12:02:50Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-19T12:08:58Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-19T12:10:17Z ecthiender quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-19T12:13:21Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-19T12:15:31Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T12:17:48Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T12:18:36Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T12:22:27Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-19T12:25:42Z durm quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-19T12:26:29Z quadresce quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T12:27:17Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T12:27:53Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-19T12:34:52Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T12:38:17Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-19T12:39:40Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T12:39:46Z raynold[away] quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-19T12:42:11Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-19T12:42:44Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T12:46:54Z travv0 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T12:47:28Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-19T12:52:04Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T12:53:21Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-19T12:54:38Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-19T12:55:23Z let42 quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-19T12:56:55Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T12:57:08Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-19T12:58:18Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-19T12:58:26Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-19T12:59:20Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-19T12:59:51Z let42 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T13:00:30Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:03:58Z SAL9000 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T13:11:52Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:15:41Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:21:20Z hydraz is now known as amused
2017-01-19T13:21:28Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-19T13:22:12Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T13:22:35Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:23:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:25:13Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:27:41Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-19T13:27:53Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:28:13Z fe[nl]ix quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T13:28:13Z Blkt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T13:28:22Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-19T13:29:39Z Blkt joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:30:04Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:30:38Z prhodes quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T13:31:52Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:32:07Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:32:51Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-19T13:33:12Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:34:40Z let42 quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-19T13:39:08Z malice`: Is there a way to make CL print lists in dot notation? e.g. (list 1 2 3) prints (1 . (2 . (3 . NIL))) to REPL
2017-01-19T13:40:10Z beach: No.
2017-01-19T13:40:24Z beach: Why would you want that?
2017-01-19T13:40:46Z malice`: I expected this question :)
2017-01-19T13:40:49Z malice`: out of curiosity.
2017-01-19T13:40:59Z malice`: No real application
2017-01-19T13:41:22Z flip214: malice`: there was some code that would translate a tree to a graphviz diagram, or some similar CONS cell printer.
2017-01-19T13:42:17Z jackdaniel: (defun print* (cons) (if (consp cons) (format nil "(~s . ~s)" (car cons) (print* (cdr cons))) (format nil "~s" cons))
2017-01-19T13:43:17Z jackdaniel: there should be ~a, but nvm
2017-01-19T13:43:50Z flip214: jackdaniel: that means re-implementing *PRINT-CIRCULAR* etc.
2017-01-19T13:43:59Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T13:44:03Z malice`: flip214: actually graphviz diagram sounds nice, do you happen to remember the name
2017-01-19T13:44:04Z malice`: ?
2017-01-19T13:44:10Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T13:44:46Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:44:51Z jackdaniel: flip214: right, but if it's only out of curiosity this may be a naive example of such printing
2017-01-19T13:45:19Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:46:12Z flip214: malice`: don't find it right now... would you want to write it yourself, or do you just need the code?
2017-01-19T13:46:25Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:47:54Z let42 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T13:48:43Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:48:49Z ogamita: malice`: (print-conses your-sexp)
2017-01-19T13:49:10Z malice`: I asked about printing dot notation because I was curious if a compiler can print it, not because I don't know how to implement it or want to look at it
2017-01-19T13:49:10Z antonis quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T13:49:20Z ogamita: malice`: com.informatimago.common-lisp.picture.cons-to-ascii:print-conses
2017-01-19T13:49:24Z malice`: flip214: and about the project, I'm interested in how it works. I wanted to look at it, maybe read code
2017-01-19T13:49:24Z ogamita: of course.
2017-01-19T13:49:43Z jao joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:49:44Z jao quit (Changing host)
2017-01-19T13:49:44Z jao joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:49:49Z ogamita: (But you already quickload all informatimago code in your rc file and use all those package in CL-USER, don't you?)
2017-01-19T13:50:08Z ogamita: (print-conses '(1 2 3)) prints: (1  . (2  . (3  . ())))
2017-01-19T13:51:24Z ogamita: (That said, print-conses doesn't support circular lists yet, you may make a pull request, or at least post an issue).
2017-01-19T13:52:00Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:55:31Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:56:57Z cthulhu joined #lisp
2017-01-19T13:59:24Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T14:01:50Z paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:05:27Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:08:34Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T14:11:57Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-19T14:12:17Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:15:47Z amused is now known as infused
2017-01-19T14:16:17Z infused is now known as amused
2017-01-19T14:17:12Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-19T14:17:32Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T14:17:50Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:18:10Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:20:29Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:22:18Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T14:23:53Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T14:25:52Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:27:40Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T14:28:29Z HeyFlash joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:28:29Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:30:52Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-19T14:31:44Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:35:01Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:37:44Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T14:39:05Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T14:39:32Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:42:21Z lisp99 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:42:31Z lisp99: hey ;)
2017-01-19T14:43:45Z beach: Hello lisp99.
2017-01-19T14:43:47Z ogamita: lisp99: Are you into http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~meidanis/courses/mc336/2006s2/funcional/L-99_Ninety-Nine_Lisp_Problems.html
2017-01-19T14:43:59Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T14:44:15Z ogamita: lisp99: have a look at http://informatimago.com/develop/lisp/l99/index.html if you need solutions.
2017-01-19T14:45:26Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-19T14:49:05Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-19T14:50:48Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:51:09Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:51:41Z cromachina_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T14:51:58Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:54:40Z lisp99: i did aoc16 instead
2017-01-19T14:55:04Z ogamita: lisp99: where is aoc16?
2017-01-19T14:55:14Z lisp99: advent of code
2017-01-19T14:55:28Z ogamita: Thanks.
2017-01-19T14:56:11Z ogamita: lisp99: you did it in Common Lisp?
2017-01-19T14:56:37Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T14:56:50Z lisp99: yes
2017-01-19T14:57:00Z ogamita: ok
2017-01-19T14:57:44Z Fare: ogamita, http://informatimago.com/develop/lisp/l99/p92.lisp NotFound.Org
2017-01-19T14:58:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-19T14:58:26Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-19T14:59:44Z sellout- quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T15:00:55Z ogamita: Yes, the last section is not complete.
2017-01-19T15:01:20Z ogamita: Perhaps I'll finish it next year.
2017-01-19T15:01:33Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:01:52Z let42 quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-19T15:02:43Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T15:04:11Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T15:04:34Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:04:48Z lisp99: ogamita: ;)
2017-01-19T15:04:56Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:05:44Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:07:09Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:07:35Z BigSafari quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T15:08:08Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:09:17Z mada quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T15:09:40Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:11:10Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T15:12:26Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T15:13:14Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:18:56Z phoe__ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:19:45Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-19T15:20:57Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-19T15:22:17Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:22:44Z dyelar joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:24:00Z circ-user-IVSJb joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:25:51Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:27:16Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:27:36Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:28:10Z let42: hi cheers
2017-01-19T15:28:13Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:28:22Z jackdaniel:  o/
2017-01-19T15:28:30Z bigos quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T15:29:02Z stardiviner quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T15:30:07Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:30:10Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:30:25Z phoe__: Hey everyone. I'm looking for a way to get persistence for objects in portable CL. Is Rucksack (https://github.com/arieltan/rucksack) still a viable choice for that?
2017-01-19T15:30:31Z beach: Hello let42.
2017-01-19T15:30:55Z let42 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T15:31:39Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:32:19Z beach: phoe__: You may want to consider Clobber: https://github.com/robert-strandh/Clobber
2017-01-19T15:32:47Z cthulhu quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T15:34:26Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T15:35:07Z antonis quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T15:35:14Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T15:35:32Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T15:35:55Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:35:59Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:37:18Z scymtym__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T15:38:11Z lisp99: isn't protobuf a good choice for on-disk objects it will with tools in other languages as well
2017-01-19T15:40:33Z phoe__: beach: looks very tiny.
2017-01-19T15:41:03Z phoe__: Basically just a single file of code.
2017-01-19T15:41:15Z dlowe: Clobber + cl-store seems like a win
2017-01-19T15:41:38Z beach: dlowe: I think if you use Clobber, you don't need anything else.
2017-01-19T15:41:53Z beach: lisp99: Common Lisp is not on the list of languages supported.
2017-01-19T15:42:23Z dlowe: beach: oh, right. I misread and thought it didn't do its own serialization
2017-01-19T15:42:38Z Xach:  /win 3
2017-01-19T15:42:48Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:43:06Z dlowe: we found the irssi user
2017-01-19T15:43:55Z Xach: with some spaces in front
2017-01-19T15:46:13Z phoe__: This is a pretty interesting take on serializing things, beach.
2017-01-19T15:46:27Z beach: phoe__: Thanks!
2017-01-19T15:47:32Z Xach: mikel evins just started a frame store on github
2017-01-19T15:47:40Z Xach: sadly, it is just a "hacks and glory await!" stub
2017-01-19T15:48:00Z Xach: but i am eager to see what happens, because he has written interesting stuff on the topic in the past
2017-01-19T15:48:13Z phoe__: Like, from what I see, you don't collect any objects themselves, you just collect the initial forms that are required to make them anew
2017-01-19T15:49:08Z beach: phoe__: And that is essential, because you don't want to store information that should be calculated upon creation.
2017-01-19T15:49:18Z phoe__: beach: right.
2017-01-19T15:49:35Z beach: phoe__: Also, if you use slots as a basis for storage, you can't change the class later.
2017-01-19T15:49:35Z dlowe: I wrote a similar serialization thing
2017-01-19T15:49:48Z dlowe: except it just dumps s-expressions.
2017-01-19T15:50:02Z dlowe: because I needed something both machine and human readable/editable
2017-01-19T15:50:22Z phoe__: dlowe: from what I see, this dumps sexps as well.
2017-01-19T15:50:40Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T15:50:50Z brfennpocock joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:51:22Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-19T15:52:09Z phoe__: oh wait, no.
2017-01-19T15:52:15Z phoe__: It doesn't dump sexps.
2017-01-19T15:52:30Z oleo: bonjour à toutes!
2017-01-19T15:53:08Z Fare: dlowe: protobuf & friends are not human-readable as such, but offer direct translations to/from a human-readable format.
2017-01-19T15:53:17Z Fare: I like piqi
2017-01-19T15:53:23Z Fare: cap'n'proto is nice, too
2017-01-19T15:53:25Z dlowe: Fare: I know about protobufs :p
2017-01-19T15:53:36Z beach: oleo: Hello.  That form is used only if everybody is a female.  In #lisp I doubt that there is even a single one.
2017-01-19T15:53:37Z dlowe: I do pretty much nothing but protobufs
2017-01-19T15:53:58Z dlowe: there used to be, but she left :(
2017-01-19T15:54:01Z phoe__: beach: I just did CLOBBER-DEMO2::START and CLOBBER-DEMO1::DO-THINGS-1.
2017-01-19T15:54:28Z beach: phoe__: Did it work?
2017-01-19T15:54:33Z phoe__: Yes, I have a file that has all of that stuff stored.
2017-01-19T15:54:34Z oleo: mon dieu......
2017-01-19T15:54:37Z oleo: lol
2017-01-19T15:54:41Z phoe__: How can I access this information now?
2017-01-19T15:54:48Z beach: I forget.
2017-01-19T15:54:56Z beach: But normally, you don't have to.
2017-01-19T15:55:16Z beach: Let me check...
2017-01-19T15:55:24Z phoe__: Let's assume I go M-x slime-restart-inferior-lisp now.
2017-01-19T15:55:39Z Fare: dlowe: so, you can have both binary format and human-readable/editable-enough
2017-01-19T15:56:30Z phoe__: Like, simulated power failure.
2017-01-19T15:56:31Z phoe__: How do I load all my stuff back?
2017-01-19T15:56:42Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-19T15:57:18Z beach: phoe__: I forget.  I need to read the code to remember.
2017-01-19T15:57:31Z phoe__: Okay.
2017-01-19T15:58:24Z beach: There are examples in the demos.
2017-01-19T15:58:33Z beach: In demo.lisp, it's the function START.
2017-01-19T15:58:38Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T15:58:50Z PuercoPop: phoe__: Depends on your requirements. You can use fact-base for small web apps for example. I remember bknr has bknr-store as well.
2017-01-19T15:59:44Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:01:46Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:02:49Z phoe__: I might want to use BKNR.
2017-01-19T16:02:53Z phoe__: PuercoPop: thanks.
2017-01-19T16:03:11Z phoe__: I'm still chewing on Clobber though because it's small enough for me to try and understand whole.
2017-01-19T16:06:56Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:07:35Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-19T16:07:35Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:09:31Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-19T16:09:59Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:11:09Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:11:20Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:12:05Z test1600_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T16:12:47Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-19T16:14:55Z wooden_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T16:15:08Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T16:15:54Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-19T16:18:44Z beach: phoe__: In demo.lisp, the application objects are in *banks* after you open a transaction log.
2017-01-19T16:19:08Z beach: phoe__: And that's because NEW-BANK stores them there.
2017-01-19T16:21:49Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:22:34Z sirkmatija quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T16:24:25Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-19T16:25:24Z beach: phoe__: Each line in the transaction represents a function call to execute.  The brackets [ and ] are reader macros and indicate that an object of that class should be created, possibly passing it initargs.
2017-01-19T16:26:40Z HDurer quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T16:28:12Z beach: phoe__: So to get your objects back, you just do (apply (car transaction) (cdr transaction) to each transaction in the log as shown by the START function in the demo.
2017-01-19T16:28:30Z void__ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:29:26Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T16:29:30Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:31:35Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:33:59Z phoe__: beach: I see.
2017-01-19T16:34:47Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:35:05Z tetero joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:35:19Z HDurer joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:35:19Z HDurer quit (Changing host)
2017-01-19T16:35:19Z HDurer joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:36:25Z phoe__: Fuck!
2017-01-19T16:36:26Z tetero: In recursive functions, or in general, is there a reason why I see people use (eql x nil) instead of (null x)?
2017-01-19T16:36:30Z phoe__: Software development is *hard*!
2017-01-19T16:36:45Z phoe__: tetero: (eql x nil), (null x), (not x) are equivalent.
2017-01-19T16:37:18Z tetero: phoe__: So why do I often see (eql x nil) rather than (null x) etc?
2017-01-19T16:37:25Z phoe__: tetero: (eql x nil) is a bit more verbose and explicit than the latter two. Maybe that's why.
2017-01-19T16:37:46Z tetero: Ah. I thought null might be a newer function or some such
2017-01-19T16:37:55Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T16:37:58Z phoe__: Not really. They're all equivalent.
2017-01-19T16:38:11Z phoe__: I use the latter two myself.
2017-01-19T16:38:12Z jackdaniel: tetero: it is purely semantical (for a programmer)
2017-01-19T16:38:14Z paul0: I'm trying to install clml using quicklisp, this is the error message "CLML.LAPACK-ENVIRONMENT::DYNAMIC-HEAP-SPACE-TOO-SMALL does not designate a condition class."
2017-01-19T16:38:38Z phoe__: paul0: ouuuch. This looks like some internal error messages.
2017-01-19T16:38:40Z paul0: is this a problem related to the package or my environment?
2017-01-19T16:38:41Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:38:57Z phoe__: Seemingly, something attempted to signal a condition CLML.LAPACK-ENVIRONMENT::DYNAMIC-HEAP-SPACE-TOO-SMALL and failed.
2017-01-19T16:39:00Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:39:05Z phoe__: So first, there's a bug in the software.
2017-01-19T16:39:13Z phoe__: And second - you might want to run your Lisp image with a bigger heap.
2017-01-19T16:39:26Z phoe__: How you do this is implementation dependent.
2017-01-19T16:39:27Z lisp99_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:39:37Z paul0: phoe_, thanks
2017-01-19T16:39:47Z phoe__: paul0: also, file a bug for that.
2017-01-19T16:39:53Z phoe__: a thing like that should not happen.
2017-01-19T16:39:57Z paul0: yes, doing that right now
2017-01-19T16:40:05Z tetero: jackdaniel: Ah. I am new to lisp. Is there any difference between null and nil as values overall (rather than null the function)?
2017-01-19T16:40:15Z phoe__: tetero: there's no NULL in Common Lisp.
2017-01-19T16:40:20Z phoe__: like, no value NULL.
2017-01-19T16:40:28Z tetero: ah
2017-01-19T16:40:31Z tetero: So there's just nil
2017-01-19T16:40:45Z phoe__: Correct.
2017-01-19T16:40:59Z lisp99 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-19T16:41:04Z jasom: the type NULL contains just one object, which is NIL
2017-01-19T16:41:10Z phoe__: jasom: NO
2017-01-19T16:41:14Z phoe__: Oh wait.
2017-01-19T16:41:16Z phoe__: The type NULL.
2017-01-19T16:41:25Z phoe__: For a moment, I thought you wrote "the type NIL".
2017-01-19T16:41:30Z phoe__: Sorry, was too quick.
2017-01-19T16:41:30Z jasom: No object is of type NIL
2017-01-19T16:41:47Z tetero: Ah. Right, that's what it said in the koans about the object types
2017-01-19T16:42:15Z phoe__: http://sellout.github.io/media/CL-type-hierarchy.png
2017-01-19T16:42:40Z phoe__: basically, nothing is of type NIL, everything is of type T, and there's a whole rainbow in between these.
2017-01-19T16:42:46Z tetero: phoe__: That's excellent! Thanks
2017-01-19T16:43:06Z phoe__: tetero: it's the only poster hanging in my room.
2017-01-19T16:43:13Z tetero: :)
2017-01-19T16:43:19Z tetero: I've just got a bunch of RUSH posters
2017-01-19T16:43:21Z phoe__: ...aside from a kanban board I haven't used for a few months.
2017-01-19T16:43:44Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T16:44:17Z tetero: I finished all the lisp-koans which were great exercises. I started doing the L-99 lisp problems now and the first 7 were easy but 8+ are quite difficult for me
2017-01-19T16:45:05Z tetero: Is there anything else of lower difficulty? More like lisp-koans?
2017-01-19T16:45:23Z phoe__: What is the 8th problem?
2017-01-19T16:45:26Z beach: tetero: There is a very general rule in programming which is to use the most specific construct that will do the trick.  (NULL X) is more specific than (EQL x NIL).
2017-01-19T16:45:50Z tetero: beach: Makes sense. I like to use (null x)
2017-01-19T16:46:10Z beach: If X is a Boolean variable, then (NOT X) is preferable.
2017-01-19T16:46:15Z tetero: phoe__: (**) Eliminate consecutive duplicates of list elements.
2017-01-19T16:46:23Z tetero: phoe__: It has solution codes for each of them
2017-01-19T16:46:31Z tetero: But I try not to look at them unless I have to
2017-01-19T16:46:40Z phoe__: tetero: this is pretty doable recursively, or iteratively.
2017-01-19T16:46:50Z tetero: Yeah I try to do each one both iteratively and recursively
2017-01-19T16:46:52Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T16:47:02Z phoe__: I can imagine writing a LOOP for this.
2017-01-19T16:47:09Z tetero: Yeah
2017-01-19T16:47:16Z tetero: The problem I keep having isn't the loop or the recursive part
2017-01-19T16:47:22Z ogamita: tetero: you're looking to some old code.
2017-01-19T16:47:33Z ogamita: tetero: style changes with time periods.
2017-01-19T16:47:56Z phoe__: tetero: what's your problem?
2017-01-19T16:48:07Z tetero: It's that if I say write a recursive function or a loop function to double the elements of a list, for example, I create double lists for each element
2017-01-19T16:48:21Z phoe__: oh, by LOOP, I mean, LOOP as the Lisp macro
2017-01-19T16:48:50Z tetero: So I'm trying to cons by various means and then it just ends up a disaster :)
2017-01-19T16:48:57Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-19T16:49:06Z ogamita: tetero: notice however that while (|CL|:|EQL| x |CL|:|NIL|) and (|CL|:|NULL| x) and (|CL|:|NOT| x) are equivalent,   (eql x nil), (null x), and (not x)  may or may not be equivalent, depending on settings of the reader and of the current package.
2017-01-19T16:49:07Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T16:49:24Z tetero: ogamita: oh
2017-01-19T16:49:25Z phoe__: ogamita: you're probably confusing him right now
2017-01-19T16:49:43Z tetero: ogamita: and yeah, I got the distinct impression that l-99 was a bit old
2017-01-19T16:49:48Z phoe__: (|CL|:|EQL| x |CL|:|NIL|) and (|CL|:|NULL| x) and (|CL|:|NOT| x) do not need to be equivalent either, depending on settings of the reader
2017-01-19T16:49:48Z paul0: phoe_, increasing the dynamic memory size solved the problem
2017-01-19T16:49:56Z phoe__: paul0: <3
2017-01-19T16:50:04Z phoe__: fire the bug for the missing condition type anyway.
2017-01-19T16:50:22Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:50:22Z paul0: phoe_, it seems to be normal, they have an issue about this open
2017-01-19T16:50:29Z tetero: I think I'm going to be more or less confused for the foreseeable future regardless. But I at least enjoy trying to figure this all out
2017-01-19T16:50:34Z ogamita: tetero: NIL designates the empty type.  NULL designates the type that contains only NIL.  In terms of sets:  NIL = {}   NULL = {NIL} = {{}}   But as variables, only NIL is bound to (), NULL is not bound to a variable.
2017-01-19T16:50:51Z let42 quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-19T16:51:11Z tetero: ah
2017-01-19T16:51:14Z ogamita: phoe__: Well, right there could be a reader macro on #\(…
2017-01-19T16:51:14Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:51:20Z phoe__: ogamita: yes.
2017-01-19T16:51:24Z tetero: ogamita: That is surprisingly understandable
2017-01-19T16:51:25Z let42 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T16:51:28Z phoe__: ogamita: other than the default one.
2017-01-19T16:51:35Z ogamita: yes.
2017-01-19T16:51:47Z dcluna joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:52:21Z phoe__: tetero: I'll cheat here
2017-01-19T16:52:27Z phoe__: (let ((list ...)) (loop for (x y) on list unless (eql x y) collect x))
2017-01-19T16:52:47Z tetero: But, what should I read to better understand how to deal with lists? Like, if I am asked to write a function which (either recursively or iteratively) takes '(a b c d) and doubles the elements I can create the function but I always end up with '((a a) (b b) (c c) (d d)) etc
2017-01-19T16:53:08Z phoe__: tetero: write code and look how people write code.
2017-01-19T16:53:10Z tetero: So I need to understand the list relations better clearly
2017-01-19T16:53:24Z phoe__: I found out that things clear up a lot of you do this most basic stage with someone.
2017-01-19T16:53:49Z phoe__: like, ask questions on #lisp, ask seemingly dumb questions on #clnoobs first and then #lisp
2017-01-19T16:53:50Z tetero: phoe__: Yeah I've done that. I also like collect x into.. etc
2017-01-19T16:53:58Z ogamita: tetero: so, there may be conotations for the human programmer: (eql x 'nil) would consider x as a symbol that could be the symbol nil.  (null x) considers x as a list (proper or dotted) that could be ().  (not x) considers x as a boolean that could be false.  (endp x) considers x as a proper list that could be empty.
2017-01-19T16:54:20Z phoe__: tetero: so boom. if you understand what I did and how I did it, level 8 cleared.
2017-01-19T16:54:26Z ogamita: tetero: endp is not equivalent to null, since endp will signal an error if x is not a cons cell or CL:NIL.
2017-01-19T16:55:05Z tetero: phoe__: Ah. Yeah I've asked for books/exercises etc here before and last time I was given lisp-koans which was great. Now I'm doing L-99 which is a bit more of a challenge for me. I especially find the function documentation (hyperlisp for example) very confusing
2017-01-19T16:55:11Z phoe__: ogamita: in other words, ENDP works only on proper lists.
2017-01-19T16:55:14Z tetero: phoe__: Yeah I understand that
2017-01-19T16:55:16Z ogamita: tetero: you could read chapter 14, Conses, in the Hyperspec.
2017-01-19T16:55:19Z phoe__: minion: tell tetero about pcl
2017-01-19T16:55:20Z minion: tetero: please see pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2017-01-19T16:55:25Z phoe__: minion: tell tetero about gentle
2017-01-19T16:55:25Z minion: tetero: have a look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/
2017-01-19T16:55:31Z phoe__: minion: tell tetero about ansicl
2017-01-19T16:55:33Z minion: Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``ansicl''.
2017-01-19T16:55:35Z phoe__: minion: tell tetero about ansi
2017-01-19T16:55:37Z minion: ansi: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/ansi
2017-01-19T16:55:42Z tetero: minion: Aye I am reading that one already!
2017-01-19T16:55:42Z minion: do you want to be reading that one already ?
2017-01-19T16:55:45Z ogamita: phoe__:  I tend to see it like: endp works on any object, signaling an error on non-proper-lists.
2017-01-19T16:56:12Z phoe__: ogamita: yes, correct.
2017-01-19T16:56:16Z phoe__: tetero: https://7chan.org/pr/src/ANSI_Common_Lisp_-_Paul_Graham.pdf
2017-01-19T16:56:23Z beach: tetero: If you have a list L and want to put the value of some variable X twice on the front of that list, you need to do (CONS X (CONS X L)), or equivalently, (LIST* X X).
2017-01-19T16:56:35Z tetero: phoe__: err, phoe. I am reading the gigamonkeys book already. I finished the chapter on loops for black belts which was very good
2017-01-19T16:56:44Z phoe__: beach: (LIST* X X L) methinks
2017-01-19T16:56:51Z beach: Yes, sorry.
2017-01-19T16:57:10Z tetero: What does the * do?
2017-01-19T16:57:14Z phoe__: tetero: so I think the 99 challenges are about right for you.
2017-01-19T16:57:22Z phoe__: tetero: LIST* is a different function.
2017-01-19T16:57:23Z phoe__: clhs list*
2017-01-19T16:57:24Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_list_.htm
2017-01-19T16:57:24Z beach: tetero: LIST* is just the name of that particular function.
2017-01-19T16:57:30Z tetero: phoe__: They are certainly challenging
2017-01-19T16:57:51Z phoe__: tetero: well, I say you should take the challenge. And come here with any problems you might have.
2017-01-19T16:58:35Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T16:58:42Z lisp99_: tetero: how far you have gone :)
2017-01-19T16:59:27Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-19T16:59:41Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T16:59:45Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-19T17:00:01Z tetero: lisp99_: I kind of got stuck at L-9 so I jumped to L-15 which was easier :P but I am going to go back to L9
2017-01-19T17:00:03Z dlowe: tetero: you might think about leaving the puzzles behind and writing something that people will use
2017-01-19T17:00:14Z dlowe: there are lots of people who will support you
2017-01-19T17:00:19Z tetero: dlowe: But I really enjoy the puzzles
2017-01-19T17:00:47Z tetero: I wrote the optional final dice game for lisp-koans
2017-01-19T17:00:51Z lisp99_: dlowe: not sure that advice is applicable to everyone :)
2017-01-19T17:01:05Z dlowe: code that people will use tends to create its own puzzles :/
2017-01-19T17:01:08Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-19T17:01:13Z phoe__: dlowe: xD
2017-01-19T17:01:17Z tetero: True
2017-01-19T17:01:40Z lisp99_: dlowe: it's more involved and often require finding right libraries/writing your own
2017-01-19T17:01:42Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T17:02:02Z dlowe: lisp99_: yes?
2017-01-19T17:02:14Z dlowe: sounds like winning to me
2017-01-19T17:02:16Z lisp99_: not necesarrily useful for beginners
2017-01-19T17:02:51Z phoe__: L9 is pretty fun
2017-01-19T17:02:54Z dlowe: I've never known someone who stopped being a beginner doing exercises
2017-01-19T17:02:58Z ryanwatkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T17:03:15Z phoe__: dlowe: I've never known someone who started being a pro without doing exercises
2017-01-19T17:03:50Z dlowe: I've known tons of people. :p
2017-01-19T17:04:05Z lisp99_: dlowe: good for you :p
2017-01-19T17:04:45Z dlowe: I mean, I've known tons of people who never did exercises and became pros.
2017-01-19T17:05:00Z dlowe: Exercises are sterile.
2017-01-19T17:05:07Z ogamita: They're fun.
2017-01-19T17:05:18Z ogamita: But in general, they're too artificial, indeed.
2017-01-19T17:05:33Z ogamita: Write full programs.
2017-01-19T17:05:48Z dlowe: Sure, they're fun. But they don't go anywhere once you're done.
2017-01-19T17:05:54Z tetero: I don't think it really matters if you do exercises or not so long as you 'do' a lot
2017-01-19T17:05:56Z lisp99_: ogamita: i am not sure about artificial; 99 problems has a lot of things are practically useful
2017-01-19T17:06:09Z beach: Notice that "amateur" is a person who practices some activity out of love, whereas "professional" is a person who practices some activity for money.
2017-01-19T17:06:38Z dlowe: beach: that's a different axis than beginner - pro
2017-01-19T17:07:04Z beach: Using "pro" to mean "good" is an aberration.
2017-01-19T17:07:20Z ogamita: Also, the professional  may do it to earn money, so he may then do it as an amateur.
2017-01-19T17:07:42Z beach: ogamita: Is this some introspection here? :)
2017-01-19T17:07:49Z ogamita: :-)
2017-01-19T17:10:14Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T17:11:27Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T17:12:19Z phoe__: tetero: http://paste.lisp.org/display/336971
2017-01-19T17:12:22Z phoe__: hacky, but works
2017-01-19T17:12:43Z kodnin quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-19T17:14:03Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-19T17:14:53Z beach: What does it do?
2017-01-19T17:15:45Z tetero: beach: Good point. I know a lot of professional programmers who don't write good code. In some cases they aren't that interested, in many cases it's 'get this done with this amount of time' and some project manager that changes his mind mid-way through
2017-01-19T17:16:04Z beach: tetero: Exactly!
2017-01-19T17:16:57Z tetero: phoe__: Thanks, each L-99 does provide a solution. I just try to look up functions and so on to solve it myself before looking at them :)
2017-01-19T17:18:31Z phoe__: beach: exercise 9 from 99 Lisp problems.
2017-01-19T17:18:45Z phoe__: tetero: I know they provide solutions, but I like doing them anyway. :D
2017-01-19T17:19:01Z tetero: phoe__: Ah ok :)
2017-01-19T17:20:36Z shymega quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T17:21:20Z lisp99_: tbh i am liking racket a bit more than lisp, but performance with sbcl is not even comparable :/
2017-01-19T17:21:40Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-19T17:24:11Z tetero: I started out programming in Java. But I found it to be very limiting in terms of creativity. So as to not give too much rope to hang yourself with I suppose. I got tired of it when I realized that I spent way more time programming around Java than expressing my own application
2017-01-19T17:25:11Z lnostdal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T17:25:37Z lisp99_: i started out with assembly :p and then C, lately i have been doing some high level languages ml and learning lisp now
2017-01-19T17:25:37Z PuercoPop: lisp99_: IMHO, When writing snippets instead of programs Racket 'batch' style of programming is ok. Or better phrased Lisp's interactive programming doesn't shine. It seems logical that you are liking Racket more
2017-01-19T17:25:53Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2017-01-19T17:26:25Z malice`: lisp99_: racket is lisp
2017-01-19T17:26:40Z beach: malice`: Let's not go there, please.
2017-01-19T17:26:45Z lisp99_: malice`: that's why i am learning nauances of all lisp
2017-01-19T17:26:56Z beach: malice`: There is no widely agreed-upon definition what "Lisp" is.
2017-01-19T17:27:01Z lisp99_: i looked at clojure, cl and racket to learn important ideas
2017-01-19T17:27:08Z malice`: beach: ah, okay. sorry then
2017-01-19T17:28:11Z malice`: lisp99_: yeah, all these languages are nice
2017-01-19T17:28:13Z lisp99_: clojure is just reduced set of cl it seems and i like schemes a bit more :) and first class continuation is nice to play with
2017-01-19T17:28:20Z malice`: racket is especially appealing imho
2017-01-19T17:28:28Z malice`: since it's like scheme, but with batteries and sweetness
2017-01-19T17:28:50Z tetero: I'm gonna go back to trying to figure these things out! Have a nice evening :)
2017-01-19T17:28:50Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-19T17:28:56Z tetero quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-19T17:29:06Z lisp99_: tetero have fun ;)
2017-01-19T17:30:44Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T17:31:30Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-19T17:31:58Z aindilis` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T17:32:39Z ogamita quit (Quit: Be seeing you!)
2017-01-19T17:32:44Z void__ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-19T17:33:15Z shymega joined #lisp
2017-01-19T17:33:24Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-19T17:36:49Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-19T17:37:41Z HeyFlash quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T17:38:47Z handlex quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T17:40:18Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-19T17:42:02Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T17:43:08Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T17:43:34Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T17:43:48Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-19T17:50:06Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T17:52:52Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-19T17:54:31Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-19T17:54:40Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:00:13Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T18:00:40Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T18:00:48Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:03:49Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:04:49Z warweasle joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:05:14Z void__ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:05:22Z void__: what is lisp used for ?
2017-01-19T18:07:07Z warweasle: void__: It's a general programming language.
2017-01-19T18:07:19Z warweasle: void__: So, anything. We even have a games channel.
2017-01-19T18:07:55Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:08:12Z sirkmatija quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T18:10:01Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:11:36Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:11:45Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T18:14:05Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:15:04Z sebboh` is now known as sebboh
2017-01-19T18:15:12Z sebboh quit (Changing host)
2017-01-19T18:15:12Z sebboh joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:16:04Z lisp99_: void__: lisp is an ai language :P
2017-01-19T18:16:14Z warweasle: void__: Lisp excels at solving (some would say growing) ill-defined problems. I use it for prototyping even when I can't use it as the end language.
2017-01-19T18:16:17Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:16:54Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-19T18:21:29Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:24:37Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-19T18:27:35Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:30:22Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:31:32Z vap1 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:32:04Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-19T18:43:22Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-19T18:44:23Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-19T18:45:42Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-19T18:47:43Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:49:53Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:50:31Z benwbooth quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-19T18:55:42Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T18:57:09Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-19T19:00:54Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T19:02:59Z benwbooth joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:05:27Z let42 quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-19T19:05:40Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:06:27Z sirkmatija: I just started with common lisp (used scheme and racket beforehand), but I think main niche of lisps are all problems, which are new or obscure or just plain weird and so theire is no language here yet which could elegantly address them. And here you have lisps, languages moldable enough to become languages suited for these problems.
2017-01-19T19:08:28Z mathi_aihtam quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T19:09:32Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:09:46Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:10:20Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-19T19:11:11Z phoe__: sirkmatija: welcome aboard. if you have any problems with CL, fire them at us, we'll try to help you.
2017-01-19T19:11:16Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T19:14:08Z sirkmatija: thanks :)  am mostly firing them at clnoobs, but if i will have anything more complex i will try here
2017-01-19T19:14:55Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T19:15:24Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T19:15:41Z mathi_aihtam quit (Quit: mathi_aihtam)
2017-01-19T19:16:21Z mathi_aihtam joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:16:27Z mathi_aihtam quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T19:18:01Z impulse joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:18:05Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:18:59Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:19:49Z vicfred joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:19:55Z NeverDie quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T19:20:43Z Fare: sirkmatija, CL, like many languages, is a mix of awesome and awful.
2017-01-19T19:20:57Z Fare: but those of us here, somehow, like it.
2017-01-19T19:21:17Z axion: How would one efficiently implement unix's tail command on a large file?
2017-01-19T19:21:54Z lisp99_: axion: maybe need to seek to end
2017-01-19T19:22:11Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:22:22Z Fare: axion: how compatible do you want to be? how wasteful of CPUs?
2017-01-19T19:22:23Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:22:51Z axion: Fare: I'm using it to create statistics for the last day/week/etc for http access logs
2017-01-19T19:23:42Z Fare: 1- open the file in binary mode, 2- search backwards for character 10, 3- use multiple threads searching 16KB chunks at a time or so and coallesce results.
2017-01-19T19:24:10Z axion: hmm ok thanks
2017-01-19T19:24:16Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T19:24:30Z BigSafari quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T19:24:33Z Fare: is there a good library for dealing with ASCII as bytes rather than characters?
2017-01-19T19:25:40Z brfennpocock: In what way? More so than merely read-byte/read-sequence?
2017-01-19T19:27:34Z Fare: well, that, but presumably you don't want to write #(104 101 108 108 111) but something like #"hello"
2017-01-19T19:27:59Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:28:09Z Fare: and all the usual functions that work on strings, you want them on byte vectors instead.
2017-01-19T19:28:13Z Fare: or byte sequences
2017-01-19T19:28:47Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:28:59Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T19:29:25Z Fare: Also, when dealing with unicode, you might pack three codepoints per fixnum. Or not.
2017-01-19T19:30:02Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:31:36Z phoe__: Is there a Lisp function to find a node in a nested list?
2017-01-19T19:31:37Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:32:09Z Fare: there is subst
2017-01-19T19:32:14Z phoe__: clhs subst
2017-01-19T19:32:14Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_substc.htm
2017-01-19T19:32:43Z phoe__: Yes, except it does not find - it modifies.
2017-01-19T19:33:05Z phoe__: And it returns only one value where it could return a second one if any change has been done.
2017-01-19T19:33:37Z sbryant quit (K-Lined)
2017-01-19T19:33:37Z sshirokov quit (K-Lined)
2017-01-19T19:35:17Z sbryant joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:35:18Z sshirokov joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:36:31Z axion: a naive way would be to use alexandria:flatten first
2017-01-19T19:37:09Z rjid quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-19T19:38:12Z sword`` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-19T19:39:04Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:39:27Z Fare: what would you return? A lens / place ?
2017-01-19T19:39:50Z void__ left #lisp
2017-01-19T19:40:04Z Fare: a reified representation of the path?
2017-01-19T19:41:31Z sword``` joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:42:11Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:42:34Z Fare: is there a lens library for CL ?
2017-01-19T19:42:59Z sirkmatija: Fare: I like it :) it's ugly (compared to scheme), but this ugliness just adds to it's charms. I think lisps crippled me as programmer though :P using not-homoiconic languages hurts now (having to learn syntax instead of semantics -.-)
2017-01-19T19:43:38Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-19T19:44:17Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:49:58Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:50:40Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-19T19:51:11Z aeth: What bothers me in non-Lisp language X is that I miss syntactic sugar that's in non-Lisp language Y and vice versa. i.e. not having to learn syntax, but knowing syntax not in the language that would make something so much easier, e.g. +=
2017-01-19T19:51:51Z aeth: In Lisp, incf could be written if it didn't exist. (Interestingly, I don't really notice the lack of equivalents for *= /= etc)
2017-01-19T19:52:47Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-19T19:52:49Z brfennpocock: I have seen (applyf #'* place num) for place *= num
2017-01-19T19:53:14Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T19:53:24Z lisp99_: aeth: you are talking about C-family languages
2017-01-19T19:54:01Z aeth: lisp99_: most languages that are procedural or OOP have (at the very least) += and -= and those that don't really make it painful to use long variable names
2017-01-19T19:54:05Z aeth: Not just C-family
2017-01-19T19:54:05Z Fare: it's not the "having to learn the syntax" that hurts so much as being unable to extend it
2017-01-19T19:54:05Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-19T19:54:40Z Fare: aeth: if CL didn't have incf, it's a define-modify-macro away
2017-01-19T19:54:44Z hhdave quit (Quit: hhdave)
2017-01-19T19:56:21Z lisp99_: not sure how long variables you write but += etc are never issues i have found that needs to be extended
2017-01-19T19:56:21Z phoe__: "if there was no god it would be necessary to invent him."
2017-01-19T19:57:10Z phoe__: I'm thinking about using BKNR-DATASTORE in my application but I'm worried about the tests I've written.
2017-01-19T19:57:35Z Fare: sometimes I feel like using APPENDF, but any non-trivial use of APPEND is usually the symptom of a bad choice of data structure
2017-01-19T19:57:48Z phoe__: BKNR-DATASTORE only allows one store in an image, and when I execute tests, I don't want test data to get written to the store meant for non-test data.
2017-01-19T19:58:26Z Fare: also, any use of NCONC is a DEFINITE sign of a bad data structure and/or overly low-level encoding thereof
2017-01-19T19:58:34Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-19T19:59:15Z aeth: lisp99_: all you need is something fairly short like: some_variable_name = some_variable_name + 1
2017-01-19T19:59:18Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T19:59:56Z aeth: That also highlights another syntactic problem. You're going to put spaces between everything anyway (e.g. "1 + 1" over "1+1") if you follow good style but because they're not *required* you have to write foo_bar instead of foo-bar
2017-01-19T20:02:10Z Fare: aeth: variable names are not "short"
2017-01-19T20:04:05Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:04:09Z lisp99_: aeth: that doesn't look too bad considering you are going to use  some_variable_name as identifier in all other places
2017-01-19T20:04:26Z aeth: well, there's "x", there's "FactoryFactoryFactoryFactoryFactoryFactory", and then there's a happy medium of "foobar_baz" or "foobar-baz" depending on the language
2017-01-19T20:05:28Z aeth: lisp99_: (incf some-variable-name) vs (setf some-variable-name (1+ some-variable-name))
2017-01-19T20:05:54Z aeth: I'll definitely prefer the syntactic sugar for incrementing a variable
2017-01-19T20:07:06Z raynold[away] joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:07:15Z paul0 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T20:07:34Z circ-user-IVSJb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T20:08:02Z lisp99_: aeth: that is valid for mutable cells but not let bindings
2017-01-19T20:08:21Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:11:00Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:13:21Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:13:52Z aeth: which is why 1+ exists
2017-01-19T20:14:45Z rpav: er what, you can incf a let binding
2017-01-19T20:15:13Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T20:17:02Z manuel_ quit (Quit: reboot)
2017-01-19T20:17:14Z aeth: and setf it.
2017-01-19T20:17:18Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T20:17:39Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T20:19:33Z aeth: (let ((foo 1)) (setf foo (1+ foo)) foo) => 2
2017-01-19T20:19:41Z rumbler31: is there any particular reason why (listen... "is intended to be used on streams backed by an interactive device"?
2017-01-19T20:19:43Z aeth: (let ((foo 1)) (incf foo) foo) => 2
2017-01-19T20:19:49Z lisp99_: well if you can mutate everything nothing prevents you to make a function like incf in other languages
2017-01-19T20:20:04Z aeth: lisp99_: incf only works because it's a macro
2017-01-19T20:20:31Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:21:14Z rumbler31: is it because the function only really has meaning when you are expecting a break in timing between "chunks" of characters being available to be read from the stream?
2017-01-19T20:22:11Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:22:16Z lisp99_: aeth: you still need to make setf methods to make it work
2017-01-19T20:22:20Z aeth: lisp99_: afaik incf is something like this: (defmacro incf* (place &optional (delta 1)) `(setf ,place (+ ,place ,delta)))
2017-01-19T20:22:54Z aeth: Now use that knowledge to implement += in Lua, which doesn't have a +=
2017-01-19T20:23:20Z rumbler31: i'm using stdio as a command channel between two programs, and I expect that commands will only be sent in response to user input from the program sitting on mine's stdin.  I report state on my stdout, which is consumed by the same "parent" process, so I'm wondering if using listen to check for new input is appropriate
2017-01-19T20:23:55Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:24:59Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-19T20:25:20Z lisp99_: aeth: not sure about lua but languages which have notions of polymorphism make it work just fine
2017-01-19T20:25:25Z lisp99_: no need of macros
2017-01-19T20:25:44Z Josh_2 quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-19T20:26:05Z let42 quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-19T20:27:38Z aeth: lisp99_: do you mean foo.increment(1) or something similar?
2017-01-19T20:28:23Z lisp99_: foo.set(x) => foo.inc(x)
2017-01-19T20:28:55Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:28:55Z lisp99_: it's called traits/typeclasses/whatever
2017-01-19T20:29:12Z aeth: lisp99_: but "(setf foo x)" is equivalent to "foo = x" in most languages, not "foo.set(x)".
2017-01-19T20:29:16Z lisp99_: you can do this with functors in ml if you really need but not so pretty
2017-01-19T20:30:04Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T20:30:36Z warweasle quit (Quit: Gotta run.)
2017-01-19T20:30:54Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-19T20:31:24Z lisp99_: aeth: same thing to me; i don't care about peculiarities of operators being special they are just functions
2017-01-19T20:31:29Z aeth: also, it looks like setf is a macro, not a method, i.e. setf(foo, x) not (roughly) foo.setf(x)
2017-01-19T20:31:30Z dyelar joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:31:58Z lisp99_: aeth: yes setf is a macro which needs to be defined for each type
2017-01-19T20:32:34Z phoe__: lisp99_: interesting fact: SETF also names a large amount of functions.
2017-01-19T20:32:38Z lisp99_: the :cl package defines it for data strucutres it provides
2017-01-19T20:32:47Z phoe__: The SETF functions are the only cases where a function name can be a list.
2017-01-19T20:32:52Z phoe__: #'(SETF CAR) for example.
2017-01-19T20:33:44Z lisp99_: phoe__: that's exactly what traits/interfaces do
2017-01-19T20:33:52Z lisp99_: in other languages
2017-01-19T20:34:03Z dyelar quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T20:34:03Z sharlatan joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:34:23Z sirkmatija: phoe__: is this some special case in compiler/interpreter or can you abuse this somehow to name functions with lists?
2017-01-19T20:34:35Z phoe__: sirkmatija: #'(SETF FOO) is a special case.
2017-01-19T20:34:39Z lisp99_: generics in lisps are also similar
2017-01-19T20:35:01Z dyelar joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:35:04Z sharlatan left #lisp
2017-01-19T20:35:48Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:37:55Z sirkmatija: so it's not implemented through functions/macros but directly in compiler? So you can't name non setf functions with lists (at least not without abusing readmacros or using your own name table)?
2017-01-19T20:38:18Z phoe__: sirkmatija: correct.
2017-01-19T20:39:41Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-19T20:39:53Z phoe__: clhs function name
2017-01-19T20:40:13Z phoe__: sirkmatija: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_f.htm#function_name
2017-01-19T20:40:43Z sirkmatija: thanks :) that seems a lot of work (for compilers writers) for one special case
2017-01-19T20:40:52Z lisp99_: xD
2017-01-19T20:41:01Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-19T20:41:35Z dyelar joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:41:45Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:41:46Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T20:42:46Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:43:21Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:43:38Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:43:55Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-19T20:44:39Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:45:18Z axion: With uiop, how do you get just the filename of a pathname?
2017-01-19T20:46:27Z aeth: sirkmatija: yeah but setf is a pretty important special case
2017-01-19T20:46:28Z Fare: what do you mean?
2017-01-19T20:46:38Z Fare: pathname-name ?
2017-01-19T20:46:50Z Fare: file-pathname ?
2017-01-19T20:46:50Z axion: Fare: I mean, is there a portable way to get the filename and extension of an absolute path?
2017-01-19T20:47:13Z oleo: name-name
2017-01-19T20:47:15Z sirkmatija: aeth: I guess I am still caught too much in functional paradigm
2017-01-19T20:47:15Z oleo: file-file
2017-01-19T20:47:20Z oleo: path-path
2017-01-19T20:47:24Z oleo: lol
2017-01-19T20:47:27Z Fare: sorry, file-namestring
2017-01-19T20:47:36Z Fare: (cl:file-namestring "foo/bar/baz.lisp")
2017-01-19T20:47:42Z axion: Ah, thanks
2017-01-19T20:47:49Z phoe__: okay, going home
2017-01-19T20:47:51Z phoe__: see you later
2017-01-19T20:47:52Z phoe__ quit
2017-01-19T20:48:21Z Fare: There are portability corner cases, but they weren't important enough for a build system.
2017-01-19T20:48:48Z Fare: so I don't have a uiop equivalent.
2017-01-19T20:49:18Z axion: Ok
2017-01-19T20:50:41Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-19T20:52:03Z Fare: but it would be easy to write it needed
2017-01-19T20:53:47Z BigSafari quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-19T20:53:53Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-19T20:54:13Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T20:54:59Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-19T21:00:35Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-19T21:02:10Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-19T21:03:11Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T21:04:34Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-19T21:06:12Z knicklux quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-19T21:15:02Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-19T21:15:29Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-19T21:15:31Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T21:16:52Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-19T21:22:18Z sirkmatija quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-19T21:22:41Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-19T21:22:44Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T21:23:18Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T21:27:36Z sword``` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-19T21:28:21Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-19T21:30:49Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-19T21:31:30Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-19T21:32:01Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T21:42:53Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T21:43:36Z paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T21:48:54Z gabnet joined #lisp
2017-01-19T21:49:17Z gabnet quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T21:49:24Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T21:50:17Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-19T21:51:58Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T21:59:58Z drmeister: Generic function EQL specializers on floats - crazy right?
2017-01-19T22:00:05Z drmeister: Does anyone do that?
2017-01-19T22:01:23Z Bike: well, it's required
2017-01-19T22:01:23Z brfennpocock: I have seen (eql 0.0) in some recursive-type funky code but I don't know if that's meant to be portable.
2017-01-19T22:01:24Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T22:01:26Z drmeister: I'm implementing a new generic function dispatch algorithm (beach's) and wondering why there is such a thing.
2017-01-19T22:01:50Z Bike: is it a problem? just call eql
2017-01-19T22:01:51Z drmeister: Required - yes - I'm implementing it.
2017-01-19T22:02:32Z drmeister: To make it fast I'm hand coding it.  So it does an EQ test first and the fallback is to call EQL
2017-01-19T22:02:44Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T22:02:48Z Bike: you don't have eql do that?
2017-01-19T22:02:57Z foom: Well, one typically hopes generic dispatch to be fast, not e.g. just testing every function to see if it matches.
2017-01-19T22:03:58Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-19T22:04:21Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T22:05:14Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-19T22:05:50Z sword```` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T22:07:28Z prxq: eql specializers are a little like COMEFROM
2017-01-19T22:07:33Z lisp99_: people use eql specializers ?
2017-01-19T22:08:02Z prxq: i haven't seen many in the wild
2017-01-19T22:08:08Z lisp99_: i mean a compiler sure should support it to be standard compliant but i don't really think it has much use
2017-01-19T22:09:58Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-19T22:10:03Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-19T22:10:21Z Bike: they're not uncommon on symbols.
2017-01-19T22:12:21Z prxq: for writing a kind of case, but better looking
2017-01-19T22:13:19Z prxq: norvig's paip doesn't use it even once
2017-01-19T22:15:06Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-19T22:15:37Z prxq: sbcl has 95 hits. Some are clearly in macros, so they are used in more instances.
2017-01-19T22:16:10Z akkad: b
2017-01-19T22:16:34Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-19T22:17:44Z logicmoo is now known as dmiles
2017-01-19T22:20:28Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-19T22:21:28Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T22:21:44Z let42 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T22:22:01Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T22:22:03Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-19T22:22:31Z let42 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-19T22:22:48Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T22:28:37Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-19T22:29:39Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-19T22:31:04Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-19T22:37:54Z RedEight joined #lisp
2017-01-19T22:44:26Z defgeneric quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-19T22:45:23Z defgeneric joined #lisp
2017-01-19T22:49:37Z Fare: asdf uses a lot of eql specializers
2017-01-19T22:50:19Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T22:52:13Z handlex quit (Quit: handlex)
2017-01-19T22:53:39Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-19T22:54:31Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T22:54:31Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T22:54:32Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-19T22:55:43Z akkad: static-vectors breaks for me on sbcl 1.3.13. ;   read error during compile-file: Lock on package SB-IMPL violated when interning %VECTOR-WIDETAG-AND-N-BITS while in package STATIC-VECTORS. ;     The SBCL Manual, Node "Package Locks"(in form starting at line: 25, column: 0, position: 768)
2017-01-19T22:55:44Z akkad:  
2017-01-19T22:55:44Z akkad:  
2017-01-19T22:57:11Z sjl: akkad: I hit that too, latest master on github works if you clone it into local-projects
2017-01-19T22:57:29Z akkad: ok thanks
2017-01-19T22:59:31Z malice: How can I add a slot to class object in CLOS?
2017-01-19T23:00:17Z fe[nl]ix: reëvaluate the defclass form
2017-01-19T23:00:33Z malice: Any other way?
2017-01-19T23:00:39Z fe[nl]ix: nope
2017-01-19T23:01:15Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:02:28Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T23:02:57Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:04:03Z Bike: you could use mop, but it still basically requires redefining the class.
2017-01-19T23:04:04Z TMA: malice: of course there is a way. find the code responsible for performing that during the reëvaluation and use that; the downside is reduced portability and increased complexity
2017-01-19T23:04:15Z malice: The thing is
2017-01-19T23:04:19Z malice: I am playing with class objects
2017-01-19T23:04:24Z malice: I've created an anonymous class
2017-01-19T23:04:30Z alienbot quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-19T23:04:34Z malice: and I'm wondering how can I modify it
2017-01-19T23:04:42Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-19T23:04:43Z malice: (to find out how useful it is)
2017-01-19T23:05:24Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T23:06:46Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T23:07:28Z fe[nl]ix: malice: you've just stumbled upon the biggest deficiency in the MOP
2017-01-19T23:08:00Z Bike: what?
2017-01-19T23:08:03Z malice: namely?
2017-01-19T23:08:26Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:08:31Z fe[nl]ix: not being able to add/remove slots directly
2017-01-19T23:10:21Z fe[nl]ix: there used to be a wiki page about MOP issues
2017-01-19T23:10:56Z Bike: adding/removing slots meanings the internal storage can be changed, doesn't it? i think it's reasonable to require going through ensure-class or whatever
2017-01-19T23:11:18Z bpf quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T23:15:49Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-19T23:16:24Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T23:16:36Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-19T23:17:25Z malice: Okay
2017-01-19T23:17:30Z malice: Another CLOS question
2017-01-19T23:17:45Z malice: I've got a class named X, created with defclass.
2017-01-19T23:17:57Z malice: Now I do (setf (class-name (find-class 'x)) 'y)
2017-01-19T23:18:24Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-19T23:18:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:19:00Z malice: what should (progn (print (find-class 'x nil)) (print (find-class 'y nil))) print?
2017-01-19T23:20:21Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:20:21Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-19T23:20:24Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T23:22:32Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:22:57Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:23:37Z pillton: Isn't that what reinitialize-instance is for?
2017-01-19T23:24:20Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-19T23:27:06Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-19T23:30:58Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T23:34:11Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:35:35Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-19T23:36:19Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:36:37Z let42 quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
2017-01-19T23:36:53Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-19T23:39:30Z MrLawrence joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:41:30Z mircea_popescu joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:41:35Z BigSafari quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-19T23:42:19Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:42:19Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:42:53Z mircea_popescu: does anyone have nyef's notes re sbcl directly on hardware ?
2017-01-19T23:43:19Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-19T23:45:47Z Bike: malice: i think changing the class-name doesn't affect find-clas.
2017-01-19T23:45:53Z mood: mircea_popescu: This could be it: http://lisphacker.com/projects/sbcl-os/how-it-works-2008-04-19.txt
2017-01-19T23:46:36Z mircea_popescu: ty mood
2017-01-19T23:46:43Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-19T23:46:43Z mircea_popescu: trying to gather the whole thing, for some reason it seems to be bits and pieces.
2017-01-19T23:46:56Z malice: Bike: yeah, looks like it does not
2017-01-19T23:52:47Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:52:55Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-19T23:53:13Z defaultxr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-19T23:53:39Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:55:21Z prhodes joined #lisp
2017-01-19T23:59:02Z pillton: The MOP is composed of three layers: the object layer, the syntax layer and the glue layer.
2017-01-19T23:59:17Z pillton: The object layer is entirely independent of the global environment.
2017-01-19T23:59:29Z pillton: It is the glue layer which modifies the global environment.
2017-01-20T00:00:30Z pillton: From http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-name.html you can see that the methods for class-name are part of the object layer.
2017-01-20T00:02:17Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T00:07:30Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T00:12:48Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-20T00:16:34Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T00:19:43Z BusFactor1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-20T00:26:30Z MrLawrence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T00:26:32Z drewr joined #lisp
2017-01-20T00:31:16Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T00:31:17Z RedEight quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-20T00:34:28Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T00:34:59Z drewr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T00:35:06Z handlex quit (Quit: handlex)
2017-01-20T00:35:24Z drewr joined #lisp
2017-01-20T00:35:26Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-20T00:35:59Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T00:36:06Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-20T00:36:17Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T00:38:28Z sword```` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T00:38:32Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-20T00:41:10Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T00:42:38Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T00:43:40Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T00:43:58Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-20T00:44:50Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T00:48:51Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-20T00:50:37Z drewr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T00:50:37Z alienbot joined #lisp
2017-01-20T00:51:03Z drewr joined #lisp
2017-01-20T00:51:27Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T00:53:47Z drewr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T00:54:09Z dezren39 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T00:55:54Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T00:57:29Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-20T00:57:31Z alienbot quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2017-01-20T00:58:03Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T01:00:12Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-20T01:07:20Z dezren39 is now known as ketket
2017-01-20T01:07:31Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-20T01:08:23Z sword```` quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T01:08:31Z ketket is now known as ketsif
2017-01-20T01:08:53Z ketsif is now known as drewrypope
2017-01-20T01:08:56Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-20T01:09:06Z drewrypope is now known as drewpope
2017-01-20T01:09:55Z mircea_popescu left #lisp
2017-01-20T01:11:44Z drewpope is now known as dezren39
2017-01-20T01:12:47Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T01:15:26Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T01:15:27Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-20T01:16:24Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T01:17:43Z theethicalegoist joined #lisp
2017-01-20T01:23:51Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-20T01:30:11Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-20T01:30:39Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T01:31:24Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T01:34:42Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-20T01:35:21Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T01:38:58Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T01:42:50Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T01:45:15Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-20T01:50:18Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T01:52:44Z fluter joined #lisp
2017-01-20T01:53:24Z bigos quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T01:54:47Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-20T02:10:14Z prhodes quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-20T02:11:11Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T02:15:06Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T02:15:20Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T02:18:17Z theethicalegoist quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T02:18:50Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T02:19:54Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T02:20:10Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T02:20:13Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-20T02:23:32Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-20T02:45:02Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T02:45:47Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T02:48:02Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-20T02:49:19Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T02:52:58Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-20T02:55:21Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:00:35Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T03:04:39Z heurist` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:06:35Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T03:06:44Z krwq joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:07:05Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:09:10Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T03:10:54Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T03:11:30Z heurist` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T03:13:32Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T03:14:58Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T03:15:47Z heurist` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:15:57Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T03:18:35Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:22:17Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:23:28Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:25:37Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:29:14Z aeth: Xach: zpb-ttf doesn't support TTF hinting, right?
2017-01-20T03:29:32Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-20T03:31:13Z adlai joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:31:43Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T03:34:14Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:38:59Z malice` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T03:40:44Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-20T03:40:54Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:41:33Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T03:42:00Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:46:04Z dcluna quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T03:46:54Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T03:48:43Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T03:50:27Z dcluna joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:50:51Z akkad: finding equalp comes up a lot in top spots of cpu profiling in my code. only place I use it is on the :test for hash tables. Is equalp a bad choice?
2017-01-20T03:52:19Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:52:54Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:53:02Z Bike: well, what keys are you using?
2017-01-20T03:53:32Z akkad: ints
2017-01-20T03:53:48Z Bike: integers? you can use eql then.
2017-01-20T03:54:50Z akkad: actually strings are the main use case
2017-01-20T03:55:24Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-20T03:55:34Z Bike: then you could use equal instead of equalp if it's okay to let strings with different casing compare false.
2017-01-20T03:55:46Z akkad: ok thanks
2017-01-20T03:57:21Z travv0 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T03:58:35Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T04:01:46Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T04:01:51Z dcluna quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T04:02:12Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:05:58Z dcluna joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:05:58Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-20T04:08:24Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T04:09:39Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:12:00Z adlai: akkad: consider using keyword symbols instead, :test #'eq
2017-01-20T04:12:19Z dcluna quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T04:13:05Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:14:05Z sword```` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T04:14:10Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T04:18:47Z Josh_2 quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-20T04:19:08Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:20:58Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T04:21:17Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:23:01Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:23:07Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:24:55Z akkad: thanks. will look at that
2017-01-20T04:28:40Z dezren39 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T04:29:01Z dezren39 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:29:58Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-20T04:31:22Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T04:34:17Z ketket joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:35:56Z dez joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:36:58Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:37:20Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:37:52Z dez quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T04:37:53Z ketket quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T04:38:19Z dezren39 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T04:38:38Z dezren39 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:43:20Z dezren39 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T04:43:24Z deank quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T04:43:47Z dezren39 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:44:37Z ketket joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:45:23Z dez joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:45:38Z ketket quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T04:45:39Z dezren39 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T04:45:39Z dez quit (K-Lined)
2017-01-20T04:46:05Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T04:46:59Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:52:06Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T04:52:06Z Oladon1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T04:52:39Z Oladon joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:52:59Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:53:49Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:54:35Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T04:54:58Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T04:55:11Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:08:49Z heurist`_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:09:38Z heurist` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T05:11:09Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T05:11:54Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T05:12:09Z S1ohy quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T05:13:16Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:15:28Z S1ohy quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T05:18:13Z dcluna joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:27:05Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-20T05:29:58Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:30:25Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-20T05:31:55Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:34:02Z heddwch quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T05:34:07Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:34:40Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T05:35:04Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T05:35:14Z Guest98986 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T05:35:36Z reepca` is now known as reepca
2017-01-20T05:36:20Z MightyJoe quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-20T05:36:40Z vhost- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T05:36:44Z heddwch joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:37:15Z reepca quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2017-01-20T05:37:50Z reepca joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:38:20Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-20T05:38:41Z Oddity quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-20T05:40:03Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:40:10Z ahungry quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-20T05:40:13Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:41:01Z giraffe joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:41:25Z giraffe is now known as Guest35314
2017-01-20T05:41:30Z vhost- joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:42:22Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:50:28Z BigSafari quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-20T05:53:27Z nydel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:54:49Z nydel_ quit (Quit: [BX] The Power Rangers use BitchX. Shouldn't you?)
2017-01-20T05:58:01Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-20T05:58:40Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-20T06:01:22Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-20T06:01:26Z rjid_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T06:02:28Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T06:03:26Z ahungry joined #lisp
2017-01-20T06:04:07Z ahungry: hi all, did my last 3 messages go through?  I think my irc may have disconnected me
2017-01-20T06:04:19Z pillton: No.
2017-01-20T06:04:37Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T06:05:09Z ahungry: ok, ty, I'll send again
2017-01-20T06:05:48Z ahungry: What do you guys think of this new project?  I'm working on a version pinning system leveraged off quicklisp / asdf, with its own built in fetching system: https://github.com/ahungry/cl-pinner
2017-01-20T06:06:19Z ahungry: it allows users to run multiple versions of the same package in the same CL image, so there is no weird depenency management when using third party systems that also pin to a version
2017-01-20T06:06:42Z ahungry: (avoiding the dependency breakage that can often occur in other languages systems like node npm and php composer)
2017-01-20T06:07:00Z pillton: It is impossible to do it properly.
2017-01-20T06:07:07Z rjid_ left #lisp
2017-01-20T06:08:13Z ahungry: It is very prototypal right now, so I will have to round out edge cases (and refactor some things like refactoring the fetched system using strings, should probably actually lex it), but it treats a fetch target as a distinct system, and renames all its components to include the appropriate version prefix
2017-01-20T06:08:19Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T06:08:45Z ahungry: So, when testing on my ahungry-fleece package at https://github.com/ahungry/ahungry-fleece , I had no issues running 3 complete different git branches/tags at the same time
2017-01-20T06:09:09Z ahungry: and in my system, it isn't a super simple asdf:defsystem (it is made up of many modules and custom files)
2017-01-20T06:10:07Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-20T06:10:23Z ahungry: basically, my system test target has things like the main defsystem/package (ahungry-fleece) and many components (af.lib.io, af.lib.coverage, af.run.tests) and some contribs (af.contrib.sb-rotate-byte), it goes through all the files it git clones, and redefines them all to be vX.X.X.original-package
2017-01-20T06:10:51Z pillton: You can't load two systems X and Y and guarantee they operate correctly for all X and Y.
2017-01-20T06:10:52Z ahungry: for any system that actually has unit tests in it, its very easy to verify the cl-pinner worked as expected
2017-01-20T06:11:17Z ahungry: why? if I check out my tag of 0.3.0 ahungry-fleece, and all components are redefined to be v0.3.0.ahungry-fleece, they have no overlap
2017-01-20T06:11:30Z ahungry: all internal calls in the system are also redefined
2017-01-20T06:11:44Z jackdaniel: o/
2017-01-20T06:12:03Z ahungry: and its in a distinct directory local to the project, project-base/pinned/v0.3.0.ahungry-fleece and project-base/pinned/vmaster.ahungry-fleece, no issues
2017-01-20T06:13:10Z ahungry: after I add the yaml parser, it will be very easy to set up a project tied with my ahungry-fleece skeleton builder, so the user can just `make && make test` in the repo as well and see all those depenencies pull in and save in a perfect image
2017-01-20T06:13:43Z ahungry: (my code coverage CLI tool + json output is working well on that repo now too, and it has colorized terminal output for the BDD test suite)
2017-01-20T06:14:12Z pillton: Lets say you have systems Y (version 1) and Y (version 2) and both define a method for a generic function in system X (version 1).
2017-01-20T06:14:17Z pillton: Which do you use?
2017-01-20T06:14:45Z ahungry: you choose when you import, or you would end up using whichever one you had chosen when your own defpackage :use :v2.0.0.whatever
2017-01-20T06:15:01Z ahungry: and if another third party made a system you depend on and locked to v1, their defpackage would :use :v1.0.0.whatever
2017-01-20T06:15:27Z ahungry: so, #'v2.0.0.whatever:GenericFnction and #'v1.0.0.whatever:GenericFnction are completely distinct
2017-01-20T06:15:30Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T06:15:46Z pillton: Y1 and Y2 use the same version of X.
2017-01-20T06:15:58Z pillton: So there is only one generic function.
2017-01-20T06:16:17Z ahungry: that isn't how I set it up, as soon as you pull in a 'pinned' versoin, it is a completley isolated and unique package
2017-01-20T06:16:31Z ahungry: its no different than if cl-json and jsown both have a generic with a shared name
2017-01-20T06:16:54Z ahungry: the versions are 100% isolated, no overlap, other than possible code duplication if someone (obviously) had shared code between branches
2017-01-20T06:17:08Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T06:17:23Z ahungry: so, you would have to resolve with shadowing import or w/e or specify the full name of what you're using, unless i'm misunderstanding what you mean
2017-01-20T06:17:58Z jackdaniel: ahungry: idea sounds like a nice workaround to the problem at hand imho
2017-01-20T06:17:59Z ahungry: but I'd be happy to make a new repo (or clone one you make) that simulates the condtion
2017-01-20T06:18:03Z pillton: In the example I describe, is X loaded twice in to distinct packages?
2017-01-20T06:18:13Z ahungry: my thought going in: if the idea sounds stupid, but it works, is it still stupid?  =)
2017-01-20T06:18:21Z ahungry: yes
2017-01-20T06:18:25Z ahungry: X is always distinct
2017-01-20T06:18:36Z ahungry: you can use 2 packages, but you can't inter-mingle their code
2017-01-20T06:18:53Z ahungry: v1.2.3 and v4.5.6 of xyz package are as separate and distinct as package abc and xyz
2017-01-20T06:19:13Z pillton: That isn't what I am saying.
2017-01-20T06:20:26Z pillton: Does system Y1 get an "instance" of system X which is completely isolated from the "instance" of system X used by system Y2?
2017-01-20T06:21:07Z ahungry: no, if you load a system that pollutes the cl-user space for instance, it isn't encapsulated in some special VM or anything
2017-01-20T06:22:15Z ahungry: using my ahungry-fleece package as a sample, if I make-instance of a v0.2.0.ahungry-fleece:Loggy class, and a v0.3.0.ahungry-fleece:Loggy class, I may be able to apply some code from the one to the other (which would be ill-advised), but if all calls are explicit, the 2 shouldn't interfere with each other
2017-01-20T06:22:27Z ahungry: unless you did a use-package on both and they pulled in common symbols
2017-01-20T06:22:34Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-20T06:23:00Z pillton: Ok, then you have the problem. (in-package "Y1") (defmethod x.v1:compute () 1) (in-package "Y1") (defmethod x.v1:compute () 2).
2017-01-20T06:23:05Z ahungry: its equivalent to if I had my ahungry-fleece:Loggy and someone else made blub:Loggy classes, they may share a name, but they have nothing to do with each other
2017-01-20T06:23:14Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-20T06:24:32Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T06:26:15Z BigSafari quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-20T06:26:22Z space_otter joined #lisp
2017-01-20T06:26:54Z ahungry: I'm still not sure what you're getting at, all defmethods are not shared in one environment are they? So which one it dispatches on your object would be based on which version package you made the object from?
2017-01-20T06:27:22Z beach: Sounds like you need first-class global environments.
2017-01-20T06:27:31Z pillton: (defmethod x.v1:compute ((x x.v1:object)))
2017-01-20T06:27:40Z pillton: ahungry: http://metamodular.com/environments.pdf
2017-01-20T06:27:55Z ahungry: thanks
2017-01-20T06:27:56Z pillton: First class environments is the only way to solve the problem.
2017-01-20T06:28:18Z pillton: ...or programmer discipline.
2017-01-20T06:30:42Z pillton: But the problem extends deeper then just first class environments.
2017-01-20T06:31:15Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T06:31:30Z pillton: Package names are another problem.
2017-01-20T06:32:22Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-20T06:32:41Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T06:34:10Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T06:34:18Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T06:34:59Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-20T06:35:21Z beach: How so?
2017-01-20T06:38:22Z pillton: Two systems may use the same package name.
2017-01-20T06:38:27Z ahungry: I'm renaming all of them with version prefix
2017-01-20T06:38:29Z jackdaniel: package names are part of the environment
2017-01-20T06:38:30Z ahungry: so it wouldn't matter atm
2017-01-20T06:39:33Z beach: pillton: Just put the two systems in two different environments.
2017-01-20T06:40:12Z pillton: That assumes that the two systems are operating independently.
2017-01-20T06:40:23Z pillton: sorry executing.
2017-01-20T06:40:34Z pillton: A system Z may want to use a system X and system Y.
2017-01-20T06:42:20Z beach: So system Z :DEPENDS-ON on system X and system Y, but unfortunately X and Y use different packages with the same name?
2017-01-20T06:42:43Z pillton: Yes.
2017-01-20T06:43:56Z jackdaniel: isn't that environments may share objects, but object refers to things listed in its environment?
2017-01-20T06:44:24Z beach: Environments may share objects.
2017-01-20T06:44:54Z beach: I am not sure what you mean by "object refers to things...".
2017-01-20T06:45:44Z beach: When a function F is LOADed, it gets tied to a particular environment, so that references to variables and other functions in F are resolved to a particular environment.
2017-01-20T06:46:05Z beach: F can be LOADed in several different environments, of course.
2017-01-20T06:46:31Z jackdaniel: that's what I meant *and* I have misread what pillton said, so nvm me
2017-01-20T06:47:23Z beach: I think the only obstacle to solving pillton's problem is that ASDF is currently unaware of first-class global environments.
2017-01-20T06:48:08Z beach: Systems X and Y would have to be built in different environment, and the functionality they provide would have to be made available to Z in a third environment.
2017-01-20T06:48:18Z nydel: i'm trying to read a character without a return.. e.g. if i'm listing posts on a bbs and i pass one i wanna see, i could just hit 't' and it would type without hitting return; can we do that?
2017-01-20T06:48:26Z nydel: (sorry to interrupt)
2017-01-20T06:48:47Z pillton: beach: How is it "made available"?
2017-01-20T06:49:36Z pillton: The third environment would have to have a mapping from its environment to the others?
2017-01-20T06:50:01Z beach: pillton: You would have to access the objects in one environment (using the protocol) and add them (again using the protocol) to an environment that Z will operate in.
2017-01-20T06:50:19Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-20T06:50:21Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-20T06:51:05Z beach: pillton: Environments typically don't play any role at runtime (that would be too expensive), so as long as the definitions are made available in the environment used by Z before Z is compiled, then it should work.
2017-01-20T06:51:17Z jackdaniel: nydel: (read-char) should do the trick, but mind, that your stream may be buffered, and then it is only flushed on newline, so you need to turn off buffering if present
2017-01-20T06:52:09Z jackdaniel: (your terminal may buffer input, lisp implementation etc) for performance reasons
2017-01-20T06:52:33Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T06:53:38Z nydel: jackdaniel: is it possible &or un/wise to turn off *standard-input* buffering?
2017-01-20T06:54:11Z beach: nydel: If you are doing this in a terminal, then the OS will not make the character available to the process until you hit return.
2017-01-20T06:54:12Z jackdaniel: I'm afraid you can't do it portably. Also – it is definetely unwise
2017-01-20T06:54:18Z ahungry: ok, check this
2017-01-20T06:54:22Z ahungry: system X Y problem
2017-01-20T06:54:24Z ahungry: i dont see issue
2017-01-20T06:54:26Z ahungry: https://github.com/ahungry/cl-stub-method-dispatch/blob/master/src/libs/cl-stub-method-dispatch.lib.stub.lisp
2017-01-20T06:54:33Z beach: nydel: So you need to change the way the OS processes characters.
2017-01-20T06:54:34Z jackdaniel: buffered input/output are waay faster
2017-01-20T06:54:39Z ahungry: in 0.2.0 tag I have accessor defined as X, in 0.3.0 I have it as Y
2017-01-20T06:54:42Z jackdaniel: s/are/is/
2017-01-20T06:54:56Z ahungry: I added a test suite to test the increment works as expected, then I do the following in my cl-pinner package
2017-01-20T06:55:14Z ahungry: (cl-pinner.lib.fetch:fetch-and-load "git" "cl-stub-method-dispatch" "https://github.com/ahungry/cl-stub-method-dispatch" "0.3.0")  (v0.3.0.cl-stub-method-dispatch.run.tests:main)
2017-01-20T06:55:14Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-20T06:55:21Z ahungry: Then run the same with 0.3.0 replaced with 0.2.0, no issues
2017-01-20T06:57:09Z nydel: beach: maybe i'd need to involve sed/awk in my e.g. terminal bbs if i want to accomplish that?
2017-01-20T06:57:45Z pillton: beach: Sure. The process of adding objects to the environment would have to ensure that it only adds and not overwrites.
2017-01-20T06:58:26Z pillton: beach: Which in this case would mean introducing separate packages.
2017-01-20T06:58:45Z ahungry: also no problem with making instances of both under a common package, (setq sy (make-instance 'v0.3.0.cl-stub-method-dispatch.lib.stub:Stubby :y 3)) -> #<V0.3.0.CL-STUB-METHOD-DISPATCH.LIB.STUB:STUBBY {1003273313}> and (setq sx (make-instance 'v0.1.0.cl-stub-method-dispatch.lib.stub:Stubby :x 3)) -> #<V0.1.0.CL-STUB-METHOD-DISPATCH.LIB.STUB:STUBBY {10035A7AD3}>, all is well
2017-01-20T06:58:50Z ahungry: method dispatches fine
2017-01-20T06:59:33Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T06:59:34Z ahungry: (v0.1.0.cl-stub-method-dispatch.lib.stub:Incx sx 3) vs (v0.3.0.cl-stub-method-dispatch.lib.stub:Incx sy 3)
2017-01-20T06:59:48Z beach: pillton: That would be automatic.  When X is compiled in its environment, a package would be created there with the name that X wants.  Similarly, when Y is compiled in its environment, another package with the same name will be created for the needs of Y.
2017-01-20T06:59:58Z ahungry: if you try to mix them, they are incompatible versions, and you receive error there is no applicable method for the v0.3.0 to dispatch to the sx instance
2017-01-20T07:00:33Z ahungry left #lisp
2017-01-20T07:00:47Z ahungry joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:01:09Z pillton: beach: How does it happen in the environment used by Z though?
2017-01-20T07:01:33Z beach: nydel: You are asking me stuff that I forgot a few decades ago.  But it used to be the case that one had to call `stty' to tell the OS to ship the characters directly to the process without waiting for RETURN.  I am sure it is done differently nowadays, but I don't know how.
2017-01-20T07:02:04Z pillton: ahungry: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337016
2017-01-20T07:02:23Z beach: pillton: The functionality (functions, variables, classes, what have you) would have to be explicitly shared in Z.  Currently, since ASDF doesn't know about first-class global environments, that would have to be done manually.
2017-01-20T07:02:48Z adolf_stalin quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T07:03:33Z nydel: beach: thanks, i'll see what the post-initd world uses as equivalent for that. appreciate it! thanks jackdaniel
2017-01-20T07:04:06Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:04:12Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:04:38Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-20T07:06:23Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:07:01Z ahungry: so, for that paste, do you imply that X is incompatbile between Y's revisions?
2017-01-20T07:07:36Z beach: ahungry: Are you asking pillton?
2017-01-20T07:08:12Z ahungry: yes, sorry; pillton: or is X unchanged?  Because either way, loading it up with multiple Y versions
2017-01-20T07:09:23Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T07:10:43Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:11:47Z pillton: beach: Sorry. I'm still confused. Lets say two systems, X and Y, define the function x:compute. I load system X in to one environment, and system Y in to another. Now, I want a third environment which invokes both of the function objects bound to x:compute in the previous environments.
2017-01-20T07:14:04Z beach: Well, you would have to distinguish them in Z somehow.  (setf (fcge:fdefinition z-env 'a:compute) (fcge:fdefinition x-env 'x:compute)) (setf (fcge:fdefinition z-env 'b:compute) (fcge:fdefinition y-env 'x:compute))
2017-01-20T07:14:07Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:14:31Z pillton: Ok.
2017-01-20T07:14:33Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T07:14:39Z beach: Or  (setf (fcge:fdefinition z-env 'x:compute1) (fcge:fdefinition x-env 'x:compute)) (setf (fcge:fdefinition z-env 'x:compute2) (fcge:fdefinition y-env 'x:compute))
2017-01-20T07:15:04Z pillton: Sure.
2017-01-20T07:15:27Z beach: Since we don't have any tools for first-class global environments, it would be clunky right now.
2017-01-20T07:16:41Z pillton: That is right. We would have to introduce another step which sets up the mapping.
2017-01-20T07:16:44Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:16:49Z beach: Yes.
2017-01-20T07:17:12Z pillton: Alright then. I got there in the end.
2017-01-20T07:17:56Z pillton: ahungry: X is unchanged. System Y (version 1) and system Y (version 2) only require system X (version 1).
2017-01-20T07:18:32Z pillton: ahungry: I have to pick up my kids. I'll check in over the weekend.
2017-01-20T07:18:40Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T07:20:22Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:21:14Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:25:45Z tommy_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:26:32Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:28:25Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:29:30Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-20T07:31:53Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:34:49Z tommy_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:34:54Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-20T07:35:32Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:37:46Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:38:01Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:38:51Z macdavid313 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T07:39:10Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T07:40:20Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:40:28Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:41:08Z sirkmatija quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T07:43:14Z cpape` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:43:52Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:43:59Z MetaHert` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:44:27Z velvetcore_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:44:42Z neuro_sys quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:44:49Z qlkzy_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:46:25Z tommy_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:47:00Z vlnx_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:47:22Z cibs_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:47:25Z copec_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:47:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:48:34Z rjeli_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:49:39Z fluter_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:50:22Z neuro_sys joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:50:23Z Hooloo42 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:50:31Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:50:45Z neuro_sys is now known as Guest24905
2017-01-20T07:50:58Z e quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T07:51:28Z cpape quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T07:51:28Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T07:51:28Z velvetcore quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T07:51:28Z fluter quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:51:28Z rjeli quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:51:28Z newcup quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:51:28Z lnostdal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:51:28Z Hoolootwo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:51:28Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:51:28Z vlnx quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T07:51:28Z MetaHertz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:51:28Z copec quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:51:29Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-20T07:51:31Z copec_ is now known as copec
2017-01-20T07:51:37Z velvetcore_ is now known as velvetcore
2017-01-20T07:51:59Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:56:18Z qlkzy joined #lisp
2017-01-20T07:59:11Z tommy_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:59:37Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T07:59:47Z raynold[away] quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-20T08:02:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:03:57Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:05:37Z Oddity joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:05:37Z Oddity quit (Changing host)
2017-01-20T08:05:37Z Oddity joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:08:49Z d4ryus3 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:10:24Z ym quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T08:11:36Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T08:11:41Z williamyaoh joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:11:54Z d4ryus2 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T08:13:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:15:00Z e joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:15:23Z ym joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:20:11Z e quit (Quit: edk)
2017-01-20T08:21:10Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T08:24:32Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T08:25:29Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:26:00Z kush- joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:26:43Z krwq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T08:32:01Z kush- is now known as kushal
2017-01-20T08:32:03Z kushal quit (Changing host)
2017-01-20T08:32:03Z kushal joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:33:37Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:34:23Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:34:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-20T08:35:37Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:39:44Z krasnal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T08:40:21Z bpf joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:44:05Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:44:32Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-20T08:46:19Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:46:22Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T08:47:39Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:48:32Z e joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:49:43Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:50:26Z Harag quit (Quit: Harag)
2017-01-20T08:53:37Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:54:30Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-20T08:55:14Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T08:56:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:02:47Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-20T09:07:20Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:07:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T09:08:26Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:10:03Z SAL9000 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:10:41Z defgeneric quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T09:11:32Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-20T09:12:10Z nullx002- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T09:15:32Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:15:37Z defgeneric joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:17:51Z azzamsa quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-20T09:18:29Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T09:18:45Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T09:19:13Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:19:15Z azzamsa joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:19:35Z Bike quit (Quit: both the damn eyes are closed)
2017-01-20T09:21:16Z qlkzy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T09:21:35Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T09:21:49Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:24:01Z azzamsa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-20T09:27:20Z e quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T09:27:43Z nullx002- joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:29:32Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T09:30:17Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:30:26Z qlkzy joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:30:42Z e joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:33:04Z gargaml joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:38:00Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:38:46Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T09:44:09Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-20T09:47:44Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T09:48:01Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T09:48:30Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:48:35Z burhanloey joined #lisp
2017-01-20T09:50:15Z ryanwatkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T09:57:24Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T09:59:00Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:03:15Z fitzsim quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T10:03:30Z fitzsim joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:04:38Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-20T10:07:45Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:09:09Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:10:21Z shdeng quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-20T10:10:51Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T10:11:50Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:12:26Z rtm1046 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:13:08Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-20T10:14:35Z BigSafari quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-20T10:17:50Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T10:21:54Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-20T10:22:11Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:23:37Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:26:05Z rtm1046 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T10:26:53Z rtm1046 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:27:38Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T10:28:47Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:30:06Z flip214: question about lparallel: if I submit a lambda with an unwind-protect, is that guaranteed to run? there's kill-tasks, but if I never call that, are there other things that
2017-01-20T10:30:18Z flip214: might cause some thread to stop without running this cleanup code?
2017-01-20T10:30:54Z flip214: Is there some way to register a cleanup function that gets called even if the worker thread dies?
2017-01-20T10:32:26Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:34:16Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T10:34:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:37:53Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-20T10:43:21Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T10:44:02Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:44:47Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:46:02Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T10:46:34Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T10:47:02Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:47:02Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:47:26Z rtm1046 quit (Quit: Bye)
2017-01-20T10:48:02Z rtm1046 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:48:08Z schjetne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T10:49:38Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:50:00Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T10:51:46Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:52:07Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:52:32Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:57:17Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T10:57:50Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-20T10:58:31Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T10:59:53Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T11:02:49Z void__ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:03:17Z void__ left #lisp
2017-01-20T11:03:59Z burhanloey quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-20T11:06:51Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:11:23Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T11:11:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:12:05Z theBlack1ragon joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:12:56Z theBlack1ragon quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T11:16:24Z theBlackDragon quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2017-01-20T11:16:49Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:17:02Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:19:35Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T11:21:00Z dmaj joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:21:29Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T11:21:45Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:22:06Z phoe__ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:23:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-20T11:25:02Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:25:16Z phoe__: Hey #parens
2017-01-20T11:25:57Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T11:28:39Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-20T11:30:30Z defgeneric quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T11:30:47Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-20T11:32:28Z dmaj left #lisp
2017-01-20T11:33:02Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:35:21Z defgeneric joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:35:27Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:36:42Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T11:37:56Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:38:09Z Xach: ahungry: have you looked at qlot?
2017-01-20T11:38:46Z Xach: aeth: i think zpb-ttf can parse/skip the hinting code, but it does not make use of it in any way.
2017-01-20T11:44:27Z rtm1046 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T11:44:50Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:49:24Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T11:49:31Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T11:49:59Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:51:47Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:53:12Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-20T11:55:38Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T11:58:19Z fluter_ is now known as fluter
2017-01-20T12:01:23Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T12:01:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:06:10Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:07:59Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:14:29Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T12:15:00Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:16:10Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T12:16:48Z flip214: nearly as many "the" as "let" ....  didn't expect that.
2017-01-20T12:16:49Z flip214: https://anvaka.github.io/common-words/#?lang=lisp
2017-01-20T12:18:30Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:20:17Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:24:08Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T12:25:41Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-20T12:26:11Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T12:27:05Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:27:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:28:04Z jameser_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:28:38Z jameser quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T12:28:48Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:33:56Z nowolfer_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:35:25Z sjl: flip214: probably from comments?
2017-01-20T12:36:53Z flip214: sjl: possibly.
2017-01-20T12:37:07Z nowolfer quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T12:38:44Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:39:17Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T12:39:23Z phoe__: flip214: click the "the" on the left side.
2017-01-20T12:39:36Z phoe__: you'll see that most entried on the lists are actually comments.
2017-01-20T12:39:47Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:40:06Z phoe__: I doubt there would be so many cases of the special operator THE.
2017-01-20T12:41:18Z phoe__: Also surprisingly many f2cl are there, probably because none of the f2cl symbols are used there and all have explicit package prefix.
2017-01-20T12:42:33Z shka: hi all
2017-01-20T12:43:37Z shka: flip214: THE is rather useful
2017-01-20T12:43:45Z shka: especially under sbcl
2017-01-20T12:43:55Z nowolfer_ quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-20T12:43:57Z shka: and since it is the most popular cl right now…
2017-01-20T12:44:17Z shka: on the side note
2017-01-20T12:44:24Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T12:44:41Z shka: it is amazing to see so many types there :D
2017-01-20T12:46:18Z phoe__: shka: lisp has no types though!!!11
2017-01-20T12:46:25Z shka: hehe
2017-01-20T12:46:47Z shka: anyway
2017-01-20T12:46:55Z shka: i wanted to ask for sbcl tip
2017-01-20T12:47:05Z shka: my function is allocating data
2017-01-20T12:47:12Z shka: or consing
2017-01-20T12:47:25Z shka: it shouldnt since it just deals with fixnums
2017-01-20T12:47:40Z shka: any idea how to figure which line does that?
2017-01-20T12:49:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-20T12:49:56Z shka: aaah nvm
2017-01-20T12:49:59Z shka: i figure it out
2017-01-20T12:50:05Z shka: same thing as usual
2017-01-20T12:50:32Z shka: converting rationals to floats instead just using floats from start
2017-01-20T12:50:44Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:51:05Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:51:10Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T12:51:33Z phoe__: > it shouldnt since it just deals with fixnums
2017-01-20T12:51:38Z phoe__: > converting rationals to floats instead just using floats from start
2017-01-20T12:51:43Z phoe__: something does not compute here
2017-01-20T12:53:44Z impaktor joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:55:13Z shka: yeah, not being precise
2017-01-20T12:55:16Z shka: sorry for that
2017-01-20T12:57:03Z phoe__: no doubt you're not being precise if you use floats
2017-01-20T12:57:12Z jameser_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T12:57:15Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:57:54Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-20T12:58:52Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:01:25Z sword```` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T13:01:28Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T13:02:14Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T13:02:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:04:06Z shka: lol
2017-01-20T13:04:15Z shka: aaanyway, now it is cons free
2017-01-20T13:04:19Z shka: so it's nice
2017-01-20T13:06:15Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:07:37Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T13:07:50Z mvilleneuve left #lisp
2017-01-20T13:08:39Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:09:07Z guicho joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:09:16Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:11:18Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T13:12:24Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-20T13:13:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-20T13:13:34Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-20T13:14:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:16:15Z mklk_ is now known as mklk
2017-01-20T13:17:51Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-20T13:18:54Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:21:09Z BigSafari quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T13:21:13Z BigSafar_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:21:43Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:22:32Z BigSafar_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T13:25:49Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:26:57Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T13:27:26Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T13:27:32Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:30:57Z mejja joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:31:20Z NeverDie_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:32:55Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:33:01Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:33:13Z NeverDie_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T13:33:59Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-20T13:34:22Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-20T13:35:31Z guicho: Im curious how many lisp people are actively submitting papers to AI conferences
2017-01-20T13:36:53Z guicho: other than some robotics people in NASA/AMES and SIFT I don't know, which is sad
2017-01-20T13:37:16Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:37:35Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T13:39:21Z guicho: merisgl entered google and would most likely using Tensorflow
2017-01-20T13:39:43Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:40:06Z Fare: you mean Gabor Melis?
2017-01-20T13:40:39Z Fare: don't the SIFT guys submit to AI conferences?
2017-01-20T13:40:40Z guicho: yep I had the wrong name
2017-01-20T13:40:41Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T13:41:11Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:41:13Z Fare: I hope Gabor hasn't forsaken Lisp.
2017-01-20T13:41:25Z guicho: this is in subsymbolic AI, but in symbolic AI the state is similar, most SAT solvers are in C/C++
2017-01-20T13:42:11Z guicho: SHOP2 in automated planning somewhat limited to HTN, i.e. requires expert knowledge and fast classical plannign solvers are mostly C++
2017-01-20T13:42:21Z beach: guicho: Most Common Lisp programmers seem to use it for web programming, at least judging from my very subjective impression of activities here in #lisp.
2017-01-20T13:43:38Z flip214: beach: well, the "web" part might just be the easiest way to get a UI.
2017-01-20T13:43:53Z beach: It could be.
2017-01-20T13:44:02Z flip214: the operations behind the frontend will be the important things, though... but this is "just domain knowledge",
2017-01-20T13:44:16Z flip214: while the web frontend parts are something new and require answers ;=)
2017-01-20T13:44:30Z ryanwatkins quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T13:45:08Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-20T13:45:21Z guicho: ASP, ILP, MaxSAT, SAT, CP ... similarly dominated by C/C++
2017-01-20T13:45:37Z beach: guicho: What I am trying to say is that Common Lisp is a general-purpose programming language, and I don't think you will find a particularly high percentage of Common Lisp programmers who are doing AI programming, compared to the percentage in other languages.  And given that other languages have many more users, you won't see much of Common Lisp in any domain, including AI.
2017-01-20T13:47:22Z guicho: beach: true
2017-01-20T13:47:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:49:47Z ym quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T13:50:17Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:50:23Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-20T13:50:53Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T13:51:17Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:51:17Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:51:21Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:51:50Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:53:05Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T13:53:52Z flip214: I'd rather use CL than C for AI, any day.
2017-01-20T13:54:11Z beach: I would rather use Common Lisp than C for just about anything.
2017-01-20T13:54:19Z flip214: but yes, right, I only have the choice because I know about them ;)
2017-01-20T13:54:36Z beach: That's true too.
2017-01-20T13:54:39Z flip214: beach: not necessarily true. for low-level system programming C is easier, sometimes.
2017-01-20T13:56:03Z beach: flip214: So you are saying that you know my preferences better than I do? :)
2017-01-20T13:58:38Z sword```` quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T13:58:48Z NeverDie_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:00:10Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:01:14Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T14:04:53Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:04:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T14:06:04Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:07:14Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:12:25Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:13:05Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-20T14:13:41Z sword```` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T14:13:47Z guicho left #lisp
2017-01-20T14:14:58Z flip214: beach: "not necessarily true *for me*". better?
2017-01-20T14:15:14Z beach: Much! :)
2017-01-20T14:15:15Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:15:23Z flip214: fine.
2017-01-20T14:15:23Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:15:39Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T14:16:34Z flip214: somebody around who knows lparallel quite well?
2017-01-20T14:17:15Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-20T14:17:55Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T14:18:19Z jackdaniel: ECL - place where elegance of C meets brievity of CL
2017-01-20T14:18:20Z jackdaniel: wait
2017-01-20T14:18:22Z jackdaniel: ;)
2017-01-20T14:18:25Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:18:33Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-20T14:18:36Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:21:46Z sword```` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T14:22:28Z Fare: flip214, I used lparallel once, it worked well.
2017-01-20T14:22:42Z Fare: (to build mailbox message passing on top)
2017-01-20T14:23:15Z Fare: I never could get chanl to work stably (I don't remember if the bugs were in the ccl or sbcl backend of chanl)
2017-01-20T14:23:18Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T14:23:19Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:24:00Z easye: I use lparallel quite a bit as a generic task manager with ABCL, but I am hardly an expert.
2017-01-20T14:24:35Z flip214: If I use submit-task with an unwind-protect in it, is that guaranteed to be run?
2017-01-20T14:24:51Z flip214: of course, if the pthread crashes the whole image or is killed it won't be run.
2017-01-20T14:25:05Z morphy joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:25:07Z flip214: but what else could cause the cleanup form to not be executed?
2017-01-20T14:25:18Z Fare: Uh? what do you put in the unwind-protect ???
2017-01-20T14:25:33Z flip214: RPC calls, for example.
2017-01-20T14:25:48Z flip214: not in the cleanup path, of course.
2017-01-20T14:26:32Z flip214: but the typical (with-open-file () ...) etc. - apart from a thread being blocked or hard killed, is there anything else that would
2017-01-20T14:26:53Z flip214: make a submitted task not be cleanly ended?
2017-01-20T14:27:31Z flip214: For example, I'd distribute some work where a lock has to be taken (for parts of the data tree)
2017-01-20T14:27:41Z Fare: well, any part of your code that raises a error can make it fail.
2017-01-20T14:27:44Z flip214: but I'm not sure into which problems I could run with that
2017-01-20T14:27:48Z xorox90_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:27:56Z sword```` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T14:28:04Z NeverDie_ quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-20T14:28:04Z flip214: well, a simple condition should be handled via unwind-protect.
2017-01-20T14:28:17Z flip214: and errors count as conditions, right?
2017-01-20T14:28:50Z Fare: what do you mean "handled"? That's no handler-bind.
2017-01-20T14:29:08Z Fare: the main form is still interrupted; it's just that the cleanup forms are run.
2017-01-20T14:29:29Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:29:36Z Fare: unless or course your submit-task is in the cleanup-forms.
2017-01-20T14:30:30Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T14:30:35Z flip214: fare: (submit-task channel (lambda () (with-lock-held (lock) (unwind-protect (some-function-call-taking-a-lock) (cleanup forms))))
2017-01-20T14:30:38Z flip214: etc.
2017-01-20T14:30:54Z flip214: I'd hope that the cleanup forms are run, and the lock always released.
2017-01-20T14:31:08Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:32:16Z Fare: flip214, ok, they should, but this has nothing to do with submit-task
2017-01-20T14:33:04Z flip214: for me it has, because this lambda is run in a different pthread, and I don't know what could happen "over there", resp.
2017-01-20T14:33:12Z flip214: what lparallel will handle and what it won't.
2017-01-20T14:35:01Z Fare: unless submit-task itself raises a condition, nothing wrong should happen
2017-01-20T14:35:40Z Fare: I haven't read submit-task code, but I imagine the only thing that could go wrong here is memory full or something.
2017-01-20T14:36:09Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:36:51Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:37:16Z pp joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:37:21Z pp is now known as Guest42615
2017-01-20T14:38:47Z flip214: yeah, fatal conditions. or pthread dying, etc.
2017-01-20T14:38:59Z flip214: well, I'll put that into production and see whether anything goes wrong ;/
2017-01-20T14:39:32Z easye: flip214: On a Friday afternoon?  Crazy man.
2017-01-20T14:39:53Z Fare: if pthread dies on you, or your CPU craps out, or your kernel fails to preserve some registers on context switch (real bug I experienced), then nothing will save you.
2017-01-20T14:40:23Z ym joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:40:32Z Fare: also, cosmic rays, NSA agents, russian spooks, etc.
2017-01-20T14:41:06Z xorox90_ is now known as xorox90
2017-01-20T14:41:34Z warweasle joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:41:44Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T14:42:00Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-20T14:42:05Z flip214: easye: no, not right now. I'll put it in my code, and we'll see whether something goes wrong in production (where all the crazy stuff happens)
2017-01-20T14:42:30Z vicfred quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T14:42:39Z flip214: Fare: whole registers, or only the direction flag on x86?
2017-01-20T14:43:16Z warweasle: Xach: Morning. Apologies on clinch. I should be home tonight. I'll fix it first thing.
2017-01-20T14:43:32Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:44:41Z flip214: another question about lparallel: submit-task requires to read the result from the channel.
2017-01-20T14:45:10Z flip214: is there something else that allows me to fire-and-forget some tasks?
2017-01-20T14:45:40Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:45:40Z NeverDie quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T14:45:58Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T14:46:05Z easye: flip214: Just SUBMIT-TASK.  That's what most of my uses of LPARALLEL use.
2017-01-20T14:46:46Z flip214: hmmm... perhaps I'll just submit a task that waits for results on the channel ;)
2017-01-20T14:48:32Z Guest42615 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T14:53:08Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:54:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-20T14:55:21Z morphy quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-20T14:55:25Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:56:02Z sword```` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T14:56:18Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:56:31Z vicfred joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:56:44Z vicfred quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T14:56:47Z warweasle is now known as warweasle_afk
2017-01-20T14:58:13Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T14:58:42Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-20T15:00:31Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-20T15:03:47Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T15:04:43Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T15:05:30Z sword```` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T15:05:45Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T15:06:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:06:50Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-20T15:08:03Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:08:59Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T15:10:33Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:10:59Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:11:09Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:11:32Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T15:13:31Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-20T15:14:50Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T15:15:22Z dyelar joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:16:12Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:16:49Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T15:17:43Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T15:18:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:18:46Z williamyaoh joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:21:15Z sword```` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T15:21:56Z BigSafari quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-20T15:22:40Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:22:50Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:27:19Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T15:27:25Z warweasle_afk: clinch might build now.
2017-01-20T15:27:58Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:28:08Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T15:28:16Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:28:56Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:29:00Z sword```` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T15:30:35Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:30:37Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-20T15:32:30Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:33:34Z phoe__: flip214: uh
2017-01-20T15:33:35Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:33:40Z phoe__: I make a LPARALLEL.QUEUE queue
2017-01-20T15:33:50Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:33:56Z phoe__: sometimes I #'PUSH-QUEUE stuff onto it
2017-01-20T15:34:05Z phoe__: and I have a bunch of threads which block on #'POP-QUEUE
2017-01-20T15:34:15Z phoe__: basically tasks without reading back the results.
2017-01-20T15:34:29Z H4ns: there is a library that does precisely that.
2017-01-20T15:34:30Z bpf quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T15:34:41Z H4ns: it is easy to find in quicklisp, i don't remember the name though
2017-01-20T15:35:07Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T15:36:10Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T15:36:11Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-20T15:40:09Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-20T15:41:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:43:33Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-20T15:45:11Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:46:43Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T15:47:54Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-20T15:48:43Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:49:50Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:50:53Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T15:52:23Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:52:25Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T15:53:02Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:53:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:57:22Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-20T15:58:08Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:59:18Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:59:49Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2017-01-20T15:59:50Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T15:59:59Z BigSafari quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T16:03:31Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:05:15Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T16:05:40Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:12:38Z handlex quit (Quit: handlex)
2017-01-20T16:15:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T16:16:34Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:16:52Z nowhere_man quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T16:17:20Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:19:13Z vicfred joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:20:41Z sirkmatija quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-20T16:22:42Z sword```` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T16:24:55Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:25:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T16:26:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:27:59Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:29:16Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:29:22Z sword```` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T16:31:04Z sword```` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:35:24Z sirkmatija quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T16:35:46Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:36:17Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:37:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T16:38:11Z flip214: phoe__: but if any of the threads die, you'll need to make them query the queue again....
2017-01-20T16:38:29Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:38:29Z flip214: then again, why should they die, if they're running a (unwind-protect) inside the loop.
2017-01-20T16:38:57Z phoe__: flip214: exactly
2017-01-20T16:39:15Z phoe__: I'm having an unwind-protect in there with a restart which just recursively calls their function again
2017-01-20T16:39:33Z phoe__: and goes into the unwind-protect in there again.
2017-01-20T16:40:04Z phoe__: I actually prefer to have the dying threads jump into debugger right now as I want to see the errors, but for production I could just toggle them to automatically invoke a restart on error.
2017-01-20T16:41:05Z sword```` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T16:41:29Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:42:46Z Hooloo42 is now known as Hoolootwo
2017-01-20T16:43:01Z flip214: phoe__: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337052
2017-01-20T16:43:09Z warweasle_afk is now known as warweasle
2017-01-20T16:43:37Z flip214: in-production?   should be called   have-debugging?   actually.
2017-01-20T16:43:44Z flip214: but otherwise it's what you want ;)
2017-01-20T16:44:16Z flip214: ah no, it's right. IN-PRODUCTION means log the error; in dev swank gets activated.
2017-01-20T16:44:37Z phoe__: flip214: ooh, looks good
2017-01-20T16:44:44Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-20T16:44:52Z flip214: thank you!
2017-01-20T16:48:24Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-20T16:49:02Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T16:49:26Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:49:34Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-20T16:52:48Z heurist_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:53:59Z heurist`_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T16:55:54Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-20T16:57:23Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T16:58:38Z lisp99_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-20T16:59:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-20T17:00:19Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:00:20Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T17:00:40Z sirkmatija quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T17:01:07Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:01:13Z raynold[away] joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:02:37Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T17:10:16Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T17:11:30Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:12:55Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:14:23Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:16:05Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-20T17:17:30Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-20T17:18:08Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:21:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T17:23:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:23:54Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:24:01Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:24:14Z reepca quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-20T17:25:53Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:28:14Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T17:32:05Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:33:13Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T17:33:51Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-20T17:34:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T17:35:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:36:09Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:41:07Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-20T17:43:56Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:45:19Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T17:46:35Z Denommus joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:46:57Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:51:31Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-20T17:52:26Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:56:30Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T17:57:45Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T17:58:40Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T17:59:14Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:00:03Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-20T18:02:14Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:06:24Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T18:07:52Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T18:09:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:13:55Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:16:19Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:16:29Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T18:16:29Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-20T18:20:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T18:21:18Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:23:35Z sebboh: so I'm writing a read-eval-print tool like for the command line (no loop, just return after the print).  Which leads me to ask: what's a lispy way to eval '("(+" "1" "1)") ?  I imagine that I might want to turn it into a single string "(+ 1 1)" first, but I've been wrong before, and I figure this is ground somebody has walked before...
2017-01-20T18:23:43Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:25:19Z Bike: um, i don't get that syntax.
2017-01-20T18:25:31Z Bike: is it a list of three strings, or a string with doubel quotes in the middle of it somehow?
2017-01-20T18:25:48Z fourier joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:27:10Z sebboh: (setf foo '( "(+" "1" "1)")) Note the lack of spaces in the string...
2017-01-20T18:28:33Z phoe__: sebboh: oh, you want to construct a string from that?
2017-01-20T18:28:47Z sebboh: That '(...) is actually verbatium what I got back from the little facade of a tool that I built so far.  There's a command line argument handler system I found in quicklisp that gives me lists like that when I call ./rep-tool (+ 1 1)
2017-01-20T18:28:50Z Bike: that's not one string, it's three strings
2017-01-20T18:28:55Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:28:59Z phoe__: I can see it's three strings
2017-01-20T18:29:23Z Bike: you should concatenate spaces into it and then pass to READ-FROM-STRING
2017-01-20T18:29:28Z phoe__: The simplest option is to insert (string #\Space) between these and concatenate 'string
2017-01-20T18:29:31Z phoe__: oh yes
2017-01-20T18:29:36Z Bike: but a command line handler might not be appropriate
2017-01-20T18:29:52Z phoe__: ^
2017-01-20T18:29:59Z phoe__: especially for special shell syntax
2017-01-20T18:30:00Z Bike: usually when you pass forms from a shell you have like sbcl --eval '(+ 1 1)' or whatever, so you get it as one argument
2017-01-20T18:30:10Z sebboh: Bike, if you don't get that syntax, you're over thinking it.. my original question included a valid list of three strings.  (I'm not entirely illiterate, I would have escaped my quote marks if they were supposed to be inside a string!)
2017-01-20T18:30:26Z Bike: of course i'm over thinking it, i'm a programmer! that's my job!
2017-01-20T18:30:42Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:31:01Z sebboh: Bike :)
2017-01-20T18:31:12Z phoe__: sebboh: okay, so
2017-01-20T18:31:14Z phoe__: 1) insert spaces
2017-01-20T18:31:18Z sebboh: yep
2017-01-20T18:31:19Z phoe__: 2) concatenate 'string
2017-01-20T18:31:22Z sebboh: yep
2017-01-20T18:31:22Z phoe__: 3) read-from-string
2017-01-20T18:31:23Z Bike: but yes, basically the program should NOT receive a form as separate arguments like that
2017-01-20T18:31:24Z sebboh: yep
2017-01-20T18:31:37Z phoe__ is going home! See you later.
2017-01-20T18:31:47Z sebboh: Bike, you are correct that the program you imagine should not do that.
2017-01-20T18:31:56Z phoe__ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-20T18:32:02Z sebboh turns his keyboard upside down
2017-01-20T18:32:05Z diogo_franco joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:32:16Z Bike: is this an obscene gesture i am not familiar with
2017-01-20T18:32:50Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T18:33:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:34:51Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T18:37:38Z Bike: really though, in the shell you should do «yourprogram '(+ 1 1)'» rather than «yourprogram (+ 1 1)» is all. whatever tool you have should deal with that correctly
2017-01-20T18:40:40Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T18:40:50Z cebreidian quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T18:40:55Z omilu quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-20T18:41:29Z habs quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-20T18:43:09Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T18:43:20Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T18:43:34Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:43:54Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T18:43:57Z sebboh: Bike, I know :)
2017-01-20T18:44:08Z Bike: k good
2017-01-20T18:44:21Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:45:28Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:47:14Z habs joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:47:33Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:47:50Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:48:15Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:48:31Z cebreidian joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:48:44Z daniel-s quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T18:50:34Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:50:41Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T18:52:25Z gargaml quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-20T18:57:10Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T18:57:34Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T19:01:57Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-20T19:05:03Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T19:06:44Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-20T19:09:40Z diogo_franco quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T19:10:44Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T19:11:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T19:13:42Z phoe_: Oooohhhhhhh.
2017-01-20T19:14:04Z phoe_: I think I've figured out how I want to do persistence in my game.
2017-01-20T19:14:20Z phoe_: From both theoretical and implementational points of view.
2017-01-20T19:18:21Z mejja quit (Quit: \ No newline at end of file)
2017-01-20T19:19:10Z bocaneri quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T19:21:39Z gacepa joined #lisp
2017-01-20T19:23:06Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T19:23:30Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T19:28:10Z baNow quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T19:29:06Z fourier joined #lisp
2017-01-20T19:30:17Z handlex quit (Quit: handlex)
2017-01-20T19:31:42Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-20T19:33:09Z froggey quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T19:33:15Z froggey joined #lisp
2017-01-20T19:34:18Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T19:34:30Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T19:35:22Z sirkmatija: Does anybody know which version of Lisp did Dijkstra work with? I am just reading some EWDs and in EWD500 he talks about devising garbage collection and lisp programs.
2017-01-20T19:36:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T19:37:16Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-20T19:45:31Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-20T19:47:37Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-20T19:47:48Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T19:48:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T19:52:29Z phoe_: Look chronologically.
2017-01-20T19:52:41Z phoe_: When did he play with Lisp? Which year was that?
2017-01-20T19:53:36Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T19:54:10Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T19:54:26Z aap: 1975....hm...lots of lisps around that time
2017-01-20T19:56:09Z S1ohy quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2017-01-20T19:57:37Z sirkmatija: Well, I guess we can't be sure that it's about one of 1975 lisps, due to him talking about some generic lisp in the paper, using it just as an example around which he built alghoritm for concurrent garbage collection. But since he knows lisp enough to implement gc for it, I think he used it, but I can't find any specifics.
2017-01-20T19:58:40Z Denommus quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-20T19:59:08Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-20T19:59:09Z aap: he probably knew LISP 1.5 at least
2017-01-20T19:59:48Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T20:00:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T20:03:32Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-20T20:03:42Z handlex_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T20:04:40Z sirkmatija: surely, due to it being 1975 it may even have been scheme
2017-01-20T20:05:44Z handlex_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T20:05:46Z handlex quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-20T20:06:14Z sirkmatija: Thing I like least about Dijkstra's writing is that they are very general, high-level descriptions of algorithms (well, most of them), which is great in most cases, but some details about his implementations would certainly sate my curiosity.
2017-01-20T20:09:20Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-20T20:09:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T20:11:12Z ryan_vw joined #lisp
2017-01-20T20:11:14Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T20:12:04Z omilu quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T20:12:19Z habs quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-20T20:13:23Z cebreidian quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T20:15:55Z sirkmatija: I guess it was probably really lisp 1.5, since he mentions that his opinion about lisp changed (for the better) after studying lisp 1.5
2017-01-20T20:16:00Z sirkmatija: *lisp 1.5 manual
2017-01-20T20:18:05Z sebboh: is defsystem part of asdf?  Is asdf part of CL?
2017-01-20T20:18:20Z pjb: Yes. No.
2017-01-20T20:18:30Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-20T20:19:04Z sebboh: Is asdf part of the average sbcl from a *nix distribution?
2017-01-20T20:19:11Z cebreidian joined #lisp
2017-01-20T20:19:14Z eschatologist: sebboh: yes
2017-01-20T20:19:15Z sebboh: s/part of/included with/
2017-01-20T20:19:56Z sebboh: Does asdf have any mechanism for downloading systems, a la quicklisp?
2017-01-20T20:20:08Z pjb: If it had, quicklisp wouldn't exist.
2017-01-20T20:21:17Z eschatologist: Does anyone know of a Lisp concurrency library similar to libdispatch, in that it works in terms of submitting work to queues to process either synchronously or asynchronously?
2017-01-20T20:21:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-20T20:22:05Z sebboh: ok. For a package to be in quicklisp (that is, published on beta.quicklisp.org/packages, or whatever), does it need any ql specific content in its source?  Or just asdf stuff (.asd files) ?
2017-01-20T20:22:12Z eschatologist: sebboh: There was a separate project, asdf-install, but it's obsolete and has been superseded by quicklisp.
2017-01-20T20:22:16Z jackdaniel: pjb: asdf-install was meant for software distribution, but people prefered quicklisp
2017-01-20T20:22:27Z pjb: but asdf-install is not part of asdf.
2017-01-20T20:22:32Z sebboh: ok
2017-01-20T20:22:49Z jackdaniel: it was asdf extension
2017-01-20T20:23:04Z pjb: just like quicklisp.
2017-01-20T20:23:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T20:23:22Z jackdaniel: no, quicklisp doesn't extend asdf
2017-01-20T20:23:46Z eschatologist: In my own very limited experience, Quicklisp doesn't need anything Quicklisp-specific added to your project, just normal use of ASDF to define a system.
2017-01-20T20:23:53Z eschatologist: I've only used Quicklisp locally though.
2017-01-20T20:24:12Z sebboh: eschatologist: ok, I thought so.
2017-01-20T20:24:13Z Xach: sebboh: it does not need any quicklisp-specific data
2017-01-20T20:24:29Z aap: sirkmatija: how did he have an opinion about lisp without knowing 1.5?
2017-01-20T20:24:32Z aap: that sounds strange...
2017-01-20T20:24:34Z Xach: see also http://blog.quicklisp.org/2015/01/getting-library-into-quicklisp.html
2017-01-20T20:24:42Z Xach: and http://blog.quicklisp.org/2015/01/some-problems-when-adding-libraries-to.html
2017-01-20T20:25:23Z omilu quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T20:25:31Z sirkmatija: aap: he supposedly have formed his initial opinion based on a paper which defined lisp in term of itself, which he found absurd
2017-01-20T20:26:10Z aap: ah, that original mccarthy paper then probably
2017-01-20T20:26:12Z sebboh: re: asdf, consider https://github.com/fukamachi/datafly/blob/master/datafly.asd .  There are those :depends-on items.  So, what is the right way to compile this baby in 2017?
2017-01-20T20:26:53Z cebreidian quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T20:27:47Z sirkmatija: probably, he wrote about that in ewd1284
2017-01-20T20:28:08Z Xach: sebboh: (ql:quickload "datafly") is what I'd try first.
2017-01-20T20:28:21Z axion: I would not recommend datafly if using sqlite. There is a big bug that the author has chosen to not respond to.
2017-01-20T20:28:35Z Xach: sebboh: if it is not in quicklisp already, i'd clone it into ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ and try quickload again.
2017-01-20T20:29:10Z sirkmatija: oh wait, he didn't like lisp 1.5 manual either, he wrote that he came to appreciate lisp later and that that manual was horribly writen
2017-01-20T20:29:15Z sebboh: axion: thanks. Xach, sure, I have a variety of repos in ~/qui.../local-projects/
2017-01-20T20:31:55Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-20T20:31:59Z rumbler31: maybe this is a stupid question, but is it currently supported to load an entire system, or quickload for that matter, through a slime connection?  Or does the lisp (asdf?) need to go out to the filesystem to actually do the compiling/loading?
2017-01-20T20:33:02Z rumbler31: i.e. do I need to shlup source over to the remote machine running swank (aside from dumping a prebuilt image) in order for me to connect in slime then ql something
2017-01-20T20:33:07Z Xach: rumbler31: slime is a way of communicating with lisp. you can tell lisp, through slime, to load stuff. it is not very different from telling it directly.
2017-01-20T20:33:07Z sebboh: rumbler31: I commonly start emacs, M-x slime RET (ql:quickload :whatever) RET (whatever:run) to start a program that is published in quicklisp.  Works great.
2017-01-20T20:33:30Z Xach: rumbler31: the sources of the system must be accessible to the lisp implementation.
2017-01-20T20:33:33Z aap: sirkmatija: poor lisp 1.5 :( i love the 1.5 manual
2017-01-20T20:33:46Z aap: got me a printed version recently :]
2017-01-20T20:33:46Z sebboh: (the slime REPL comes up after that first RET...)
2017-01-20T20:33:56Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T20:34:12Z cebreidian joined #lisp
2017-01-20T20:34:16Z sirkmatija: some actions can't be ran from inside emacs though, so use :swank and slime-connect (for exampel sdl stuff, some external libraries, ...)
2017-01-20T20:34:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T20:34:26Z rumbler31: Xach: accessible "from the filesystem"? and that all the slime-compile-file et all operate on files accessible to the implementation, not shipped over slime?
2017-01-20T20:34:43Z xorox90 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-20T20:35:18Z sirkmatija: aap: I have to say I don't know much about lisp history, I only read some original lambda papers.
2017-01-20T20:35:40Z Xach: rumbler31: I don't think there is an easy way to have Lisp running on host A and files on host B and have A compile and load files from B.
2017-01-20T20:35:52Z aap: sirkmatija: i pretty much *only* know about the history :D
2017-01-20T20:35:58Z aap: the lambda papers are great though
2017-01-20T20:35:59Z rumbler31: ok, got it.  thanks!
2017-01-20T20:36:08Z aap: they really opened my eyes
2017-01-20T20:36:12Z rumbler31: well...
2017-01-20T20:36:31Z Xach: rumbler31: there are ways to run emacs on host B and semi-transparently edit files on A, and tell slime how to translate pathnames that is provides to Lisp
2017-01-20T20:36:44Z Xach: rumbler31: i don't remember the way, but if you google for "slime swank tramp" you might find it.
2017-01-20T20:36:47Z sebboh: rumbler31: "shipped" over slime?  Does that happen?  When I start slime from emacs, it starts a sbcl process on the local machine. that process can read from the filesystem or speak HTTP to download sources from outside.  When I use slime to connect a remote sbcl, via swank, and ask it to quickload something, that remote sbcl will look on its own filesystem or use its own network connection to get the resources and load 'em up.
2017-01-20T20:37:51Z rumbler31: then how do thinks like slime-compile-defun work?  I assumed that the contents of the form get shipped over slime, esp if working in a buffer that has no file backing it?  maybe its not meant to be used to load an entire file of course, but
2017-01-20T20:37:55Z sebboh: If there is some magical exception to that, I'm not surprised to hear that it has something to do with tramp, because magic is a design goal of tramp.
2017-01-20T20:38:11Z sirkmatija: aap: yeah, I agree. I will probably start digging into history of it once I learn a bit more about lisp as language.
2017-01-20T20:38:14Z rumbler31: I understand that a lisp invoking load and compile probably require opening a local file for that
2017-01-20T20:38:31Z sebboh: rumbler31: slime ships strings over swank, yes.
2017-01-20T20:38:45Z aap: sirkmatija: you could read the 1.5 manual, if you haven't already
2017-01-20T20:38:54Z aap: it's great. it even explains implementation details
2017-01-20T20:38:55Z Xach: rumbler31: I am not sure how it works in all cases, but in some cases it writes forms to a temporary file, then compiles and loads that. and then patches up the lookup info so it appears to come from the original file.
2017-01-20T20:39:04Z sirkmatija: I guess we have there at least two ways of looking at lisp, lisp as a tradition (family of dialects, some mutual characteristic, naming conventions, common history ...) and languages
2017-01-20T20:39:04Z rumbler31: ahh
2017-01-20T20:39:16Z sirkmatija: I will, do you have any other recommendations?
2017-01-20T20:39:18Z Xach: sirkmatija: This channel is for discussing Common Lisp.
2017-01-20T20:39:24Z rumbler31: ok.. thanks for pointing me in the right direction
2017-01-20T20:39:46Z sirkmatija: xach: okay, I will try not to derail it too much in the future, sorry
2017-01-20T20:39:57Z sebboh: Xach really?? wow, that's way more complicated than I expected.  rumbler31, consider striking my own comments re: slime from the record since I know less than I thought.
2017-01-20T20:40:30Z aap: sirkmatija: if you're into the history of lisp, there's a paper by mccarthy about the early development. the later evolution was covered by steele and gabriel
2017-01-20T20:40:58Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-20T20:41:37Z Xach: You can look at how it works with various C-h f and M-. activity
2017-01-20T20:42:26Z aap: sirkmatija: also the early AI memos (1 and 3 mainly) and of course the first published paper from mccarthy
2017-01-20T20:44:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T20:46:11Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T20:46:12Z jasom: anyone else find they get hugely reduced core footprint by having a timer call SBCL's GC?
2017-01-20T20:46:42Z fe[nl]ix: ??
2017-01-20T20:47:05Z jasom: I added that to one service I have and peak ram usage went from ~10GB to ~120MB
2017-01-20T20:47:20Z foom: SBCL's gc is not very good.
2017-01-20T20:48:01Z sirkmatija: cool, thank you :) also I found lisp 1.5 manual and I am surprised that it had fexprs (well, I knew they were present in older lisps, but I didn't thought they were present in 1.5). Did anybody try implementing them in common lisp (like they are in kernel, dialect of scheme)? I understand that they are mainly problematic by dynamic scoping, which isn't a problem in common lisp, but is it possible to implement/emula
2017-01-20T20:48:03Z sirkmatija: te them?
2017-01-20T20:48:30Z foom: The issue you're running into is probably that the generational collection strategy is failing.
2017-01-20T20:48:39Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T20:51:34Z varjag: sirkmatija: lisp 1.5 manual is from 1962, what do you mean by older lisps?
2017-01-20T20:52:06Z pjb: LISP 1.0, 1959.
2017-01-20T20:52:13Z sirkmatija: i mean lisps that aren't modern, but are younger than lisp 1.5. Sorry for confusing wording, english isn't my first language
2017-01-20T20:52:29Z White_Flame: in the compiled age, I think fexprs have too much impedance mismatch
2017-01-20T20:52:43Z aap: LISP 1 is really weird in the way they represented numbers
2017-01-20T20:52:56Z varjag: yes, compilers and macros killed them
2017-01-20T20:53:21Z White_Flame: in common cases, you could also change a fexpr to passing a lambda body to call
2017-01-20T20:53:21Z varjag: pjb: still not in plural :p
2017-01-20T20:53:54Z White_Flame: although bindings and variable scopes are more flexible (ie, low level and hackish) in fexprs
2017-01-20T20:54:41Z varjag: fexprs persisted well into the 80s in simpler interpreters
2017-01-20T20:55:34Z sirkmatija: so would it be possible to implement/emulate them in common lisp? or is it incompatible with it's architecture?
2017-01-20T20:55:42Z varjag: sure
2017-01-20T20:56:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-20T20:56:08Z varjag: you can store your definitions as symbol-property
2017-01-20T20:56:44Z varjag: and compile every time you alter it
2017-01-20T20:57:02Z White_Flame: or mash them through EVAL at runtime
2017-01-20T20:57:04Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T20:57:32Z varjag: or that
2017-01-20T20:57:54Z jasom: sirkmatija: fwiw, "older lisps" could validly mean "older than 1.5" or "not modern lisps" in that context, so nothing wrong with your english
2017-01-20T20:58:22Z varjag: just that 1.5 is incredibly old by any metric
2017-01-20T20:58:38Z varjag: and is more or less first lisp in the wild
2017-01-20T20:59:38Z jasom: foom: any idea if it's possible to tune the sbcl GC (e.g. how often each generation is collected)?
2017-01-20T20:59:43Z sirkmatija: nice, I will probably experiment a bit with them (fexprs), since I really liked kernel's use of them.
2017-01-20T21:00:25Z foom: jasom: yea, you can change those things. You can also reduce the number of generations.
2017-01-20T21:01:45Z aap: varjag: but even if it's early it was amazingly advanced already
2017-01-20T21:02:06Z aap: with the assembler and compiler
2017-01-20T21:02:34Z warweasle quit (Quit: back)
2017-01-20T21:02:39Z varjag: true!
2017-01-20T21:03:05Z aap: i thought about implementing lisp 1.5 rather accurately and writing an article about it
2017-01-20T21:03:18Z aap: and i don't mean javascript or whatever
2017-01-20T21:03:31Z aap: i'd do it in c or assembly
2017-01-20T21:04:14Z White_Flame: you should write it in LIsp 1.5
2017-01-20T21:04:29Z warweasle joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:04:40Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T21:04:44Z warweasle: Xach: Clinch should be good now.
2017-01-20T21:05:07Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T21:05:15Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:05:29Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:05:53Z fourier joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:06:35Z sirkmatija: aap: why not in forth?
2017-01-20T21:06:53Z aap: that might be fun too
2017-01-20T21:07:19Z sirkmatija: I think better idea would be to write a prototype compiler in common lisp or racket and make second version in lisp 1.5
2017-01-20T21:07:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T21:07:30Z sirkmatija: *second version of compiler
2017-01-20T21:07:40Z sirkmatija: go self-hosting as fast as possible :D
2017-01-20T21:07:52Z aap: nah, not necessary
2017-01-20T21:08:10Z whartung quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T21:08:11Z gargaml joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:08:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:08:22Z aap: but i'd really like to do and write about a simple implementation of a *real* lisp
2017-01-20T21:08:29Z aap: there are so many toy lisps around
2017-01-20T21:08:43Z aap: or implementations in javascript or haskell that take all the fun away
2017-01-20T21:08:49Z whartung joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:09:52Z williamyaoh joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:10:42Z sirkmatija: I guess you aren't really a lisper until you start dreaming of making your own lisp
2017-01-20T21:11:02Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T21:12:42Z aap: a toy lisp is really easy, just implement read, eval, print and be happy
2017-01-20T21:13:03Z varjag: yeah it's almost a rite of passage
2017-01-20T21:13:13Z aap: there is a ton of those around
2017-01-20T21:13:32Z varjag: then it either cures you from minimalism bug
2017-01-20T21:13:39Z varjag: or you become a scheme programmer :p
2017-01-20T21:13:53Z aap: what's the 'minimalism bug'?
2017-01-20T21:14:26Z varjag: aap: people are often fascinated with making smallest lisps possible
2017-01-20T21:14:37Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-20T21:14:57Z aap: ah yes. the "axiomatic" approach
2017-01-20T21:15:05Z White_Flame: it should be relatively easy to make a full-feature lisp without any attention paid to making it fast
2017-01-20T21:15:05Z varjag: right
2017-01-20T21:15:16Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T21:15:21Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:15:46Z prxq: aap: depends on the toolage of the toy lisp. If it has a proper GC, lexical scoping, and a decent numerical tower (and it works), then... that's not really that easy.
2017-01-20T21:16:23Z aap: i wouldn't necessarily call it a toy lisp anymore in that case
2017-01-20T21:16:25Z eschatologist: And if it can run existing nontrivial Lisp programs, then it's also not really that easy.
2017-01-20T21:16:25Z varjag: and it stops being toy somewhere along the way
2017-01-20T21:16:33Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-20T21:17:04Z eschatologist: Heck, I'm surprised there's still elisp as a separate thing, rather than an elisp-compat lib for Common Lisp.
2017-01-20T21:17:04Z prxq: aap: it would still be quite a long way away from an industrial strength common lisp implementation, though
2017-01-20T21:17:10Z aap: sure
2017-01-20T21:17:50Z sirkmatija: i guess i was bitten with minimalism bug :P lisp with a very small core (lists being the only data type, numbers represented by lists, ...) and everything else just syntax sugar would be ideal if it was efficient
2017-01-20T21:18:03Z eschatologist: Why would it be ideal?
2017-01-20T21:18:15Z eschatologist: Semantic richness is one of the benefits of Common Lisp, as with ZetaLisp before it.
2017-01-20T21:18:36Z eschatologist: With just a very small core you wind up having to build out everything again.
2017-01-20T21:18:47Z aap: sirkmatija: in lisp 1.5 (and earlier) numbers were stored in a sort of list
2017-01-20T21:19:08Z aap: a single cons cell whose cdr points to a word containing the number
2017-01-20T21:19:17Z sirkmatija: well let's say small core and big standard library then :)
2017-01-20T21:19:19Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T21:19:21Z eschatologist: And Haskell has historically treated strings as lists. That's why "real world" Haskell uses a library that provides a different string representation.
2017-01-20T21:19:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:19:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:19:59Z eschatologist: And do you enhance your compiler to have knowledge of the standard library, so you can take advantage of the optimization opportunities having a standard library affords?
2017-01-20T21:20:40Z eschatologist: Things like that can be great as academic systems, for teaching and for research, but they're not always so great for developing things beyond that.
2017-01-20T21:20:46Z sirkmatija: since this forces you to define as many things as possible in language, not in compiler, and allows operations to be much more general in non-hacky way (concatenating two lists that represent numbers)
2017-01-20T21:20:53Z sirkmatija: yeah i agree, it's not practical or efficient at all
2017-01-20T21:21:31Z sirkmatija: I guess it appeals to my math side, a small set of axioms, with everything else built from them and provable
2017-01-20T21:21:32Z White_Flame: well, in-language can still change what the compiler does
2017-01-20T21:21:40Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T21:21:47Z White_Flame: especially with an online compiler like lisp
2017-01-20T21:21:57Z prxq: personally, I think the toy lisp route teaches a lot about programming languages in general, so I think it is a very good exercise. If done as a personal project driven by one's own motivation, it's really great.
2017-01-20T21:22:22Z aap: indeed
2017-01-20T21:22:43Z sirkmatija: if nothing else it really teaches you that code is data
2017-01-20T21:22:49Z froggey joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:23:17Z White_Flame: having worked a lot with prolog and production rule systems, I view whole-program optimization as a natural inference from the source code, which can happen online
2017-01-20T21:23:23Z sirkmatija: what i find interesting is that this is one of the main similarities between lisp and forth. Both camps consider implementing a toy forth/lisp a "rite of passage"
2017-01-20T21:23:46Z warweasle quit (Quit: away)
2017-01-20T21:23:56Z prxq: no one in his sane mind would propose implementing a toy C++, Fortran or Ada :-)
2017-01-20T21:26:09Z sirkmatija: it looks like we have there toy functional languages (little lisps), imperative/stack ones (forths), but where are toy OOP languages?
2017-01-20T21:26:41Z sirkmatija: we even have logic ones, if you count minikanren implementations and its derivatives.
2017-01-20T21:26:44Z White_Flame: little javascripts, luas, etc?
2017-01-20T21:26:58Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-20T21:27:04Z varjag: toy oop is so trivial with lambda it's not really worth own mention
2017-01-20T21:27:13Z sirkmatija: i had never seen an example of toy javascript
2017-01-20T21:27:14Z varjag: :)
2017-01-20T21:27:19Z White_Flame: the thing is, forth & lisp are very self-contained languages.  Normal imperative syntax & object support isn't exactly "toy" to write
2017-01-20T21:27:28Z White_Flame: especially when it comes to parsing
2017-01-20T21:27:45Z White_Flame: most "toy" languages of those forms end up being constrained crap
2017-01-20T21:27:52Z White_Flame: hence you never see them
2017-01-20T21:27:52Z sirkmatija: true enough but implemented in language without first class functions wouldn't be so trivial I guess
2017-01-20T21:29:19Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T21:29:33Z prhodes joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:29:35Z White_Flame: I think most of the simple DSLs I've seen written from people with non-Lisp/Forth backgrounds end up being a lot like assembly code, with individual simple mutating operations
2017-01-20T21:29:37Z prxq: aren't rust and go and so on toy languages?
2017-01-20T21:29:49Z gacepa quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-20T21:30:09Z White_Flame: I think "toy" would be single-man hobby projects that are small
2017-01-20T21:30:19Z White_Flame: usually done for the fun of implementation
2017-01-20T21:30:30Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:30:33Z White_Flame: rust & go are much more than that
2017-01-20T21:31:04Z sirkmatija: I have to admit I don't have much experience there, I had only implemented a minimal lisp and a stack lang with multiple stacks, which you explicitly manipulated
2017-01-20T21:31:31Z sirkmatija: i would consider toy languages simple languages made for learning/fun/to prove you can do it, with no intention of practical use
2017-01-20T21:32:34Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T21:34:22Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T21:36:07Z eschatologist: Plenty of people implement toy OOP systems, they just don't build a full language to do it.
2017-01-20T21:36:56Z eschatologist: For one example, I saw the design NeWS used and implemented my own equivalent in PostScript when I was doing work on print & publishing software.
2017-01-20T21:37:00Z prxq: eschatologist: the real question is, why do that. OOP isn't that interesting in terms of features. Objects, methods, inheritance, private, public, done.
2017-01-20T21:37:24Z prxq: constructors, etc. is basically tedium.
2017-01-20T21:37:30Z Bike: lisp isn't that interesting in terms of evaluation, so...
2017-01-20T21:37:49Z eschatologist: Actually, it's often objects, message dispatch, done.
2017-01-20T21:38:11Z eschatologist: And you do it because it gives you tools to work with abstractions.
2017-01-20T21:39:49Z eschatologist: With my NeWS-like OO system, I had inheritance too, and it let me more compactly address certain problems than some other representations.
2017-01-20T21:40:26Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T21:40:40Z prxq: eschatologist: better than any of the existing languages? Does OO inspire dreams of world domination like lisp and functional programming do? :-)
2017-01-20T21:41:01Z prxq: It used to do so, but I don't hear much from that any more
2017-01-20T21:41:23Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:41:42Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:41:44Z eschatologist: The lead developer on a Sega Genesis game I worked on did the same thing in 68K assembly; we needed to use asm for performance, but having dynamic dispatch in some places allowed for much more intention-revealing code.
2017-01-20T21:43:30Z eschatologist: prxq: You don't hear that much about OO any more because OO won. The vast majority of new mainstream software development has been done in languages supporting OO, using OO techniques, atop OO frameworks, for many years now.
2017-01-20T21:44:04Z amused is now known as maybe
2017-01-20T21:45:11Z prxq: eschatologist: sure, but had common lisp won, I'm sure we'd still have regular skirmishes on lisp-1 vs lisp-2, hygienic macros vs. bar-toilet macros, etc.
2017-01-20T21:46:28Z prxq: no one seems to have any illusions on OO.
2017-01-20T21:48:26Z antonis joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:49:26Z reepca joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:50:02Z maybe is now known as amused
2017-01-20T21:50:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T21:52:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T21:56:10Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-20T21:56:14Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T21:57:41Z deank quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T21:58:13Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T22:01:43Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:03:33Z White_Flame: eschatologist: another reason you don't hear about OO much is that OO is being relaxed and diluted by more freeform languages like JS and Python.  So OO dogma isn't what it used to be, even though the languages still use objects
2017-01-20T22:03:37Z sirkmatija quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T22:03:52Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T22:04:18Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:04:22Z White_Flame: (of course, the Java ecosystem is still strongly Object-Obsessed)
2017-01-20T22:04:39Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:05:38Z eschatologist: JavaScript and Python don't really dilute OO. OO is about sending messages to objects.
2017-01-20T22:06:40Z White_Flame: the "OO" that won is not about sending messages to objects, it's about creating a rigid and specified object heirarchy
2017-01-20T22:07:04Z prxq: and in a way, both are pretty profane
2017-01-20T22:07:15Z prxq: compared to functors and stuff
2017-01-20T22:07:22Z slyrus_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:08:29Z eschatologist: The OO that I'm talking about is rather pervasive, for example every one of a billion plus Apple devices uses it.
2017-01-20T22:08:40Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T22:08:47Z slyrus_ is now known as slyrus
2017-01-20T22:11:49Z habs joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:13:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T22:14:02Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:14:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:19:17Z CW joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:19:36Z CW quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T22:19:39Z fourier joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:19:57Z CW joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:20:33Z CW quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-20T22:22:35Z C_Y_W joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:22:59Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T22:23:10Z C_Y_W quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-20T22:24:27Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-20T22:24:30Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T22:24:33Z k-stz joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:24:35Z CYW33 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:25:10Z CYW33 quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-20T22:26:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:27:31Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-20T22:30:01Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-20T22:31:56Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:34:18Z lxpz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2017-01-20T22:35:21Z gargaml quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-20T22:36:04Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T22:36:52Z lxpz joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:37:05Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:41:53Z lxpz quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T22:43:34Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-20T22:44:00Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:47:28Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T22:47:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:49:58Z lxpz joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:52:40Z maxirater joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:53:15Z tommy_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:54:29Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:57:10Z _death: do they use it, or do they simple execute a bunch of instructions that were generated from source code written by someone who used it
2017-01-20T22:57:37Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T22:58:40Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T22:58:44Z maxirater quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T22:58:58Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T22:59:26Z p_l: _death: well, in a way, pretty much all GUI systems heavily depend on message passing OO..
2017-01-20T22:59:48Z froggey quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T22:59:53Z _death: p_l: yes, I just had trouble with such measurement of pervasiveness of a paradigm
2017-01-20T23:00:37Z froggey joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:00:52Z p_l: _death: and at least in case of Apple, unidirectional messages between objects are core concept underlying how the system works, whether written in assembly or Objective-C
2017-01-20T23:02:01Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:02:06Z _death: it's like saying Lisp is popular because there are many Roomba robots sold
2017-01-20T23:02:32Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:02:59Z vicfred quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T23:03:33Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-20T23:04:11Z mejja joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:04:40Z scottj joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:06:33Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-20T23:08:32Z maxirater joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:08:41Z mejja quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-20T23:09:22Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-20T23:09:35Z maxirater quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T23:09:49Z k-stz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T23:09:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T23:10:28Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:11:04Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:12:13Z fourier joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:17:28Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-20T23:18:46Z prhodes quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T23:19:35Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-20T23:20:11Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-20T23:20:44Z tommy_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-20T23:21:07Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:24:49Z yrdz` joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:25:05Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T23:26:31Z yrdz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-20T23:29:34Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T23:30:07Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:30:38Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-20T23:31:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:32:03Z jurov: Can pls anyone hint why I am getting nothing in slime trace dialog? File is compiled with debug 3, function is shown in traced specs, but calling it from REPL does nothing
2017-01-20T23:33:43Z shrdlu68 joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:36:13Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-20T23:36:22Z BusFactor1 quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-20T23:36:53Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:37:08Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:37:11Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-20T23:37:52Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-20T23:39:57Z jurov: it works when i do (trace myfunc)... looks like slime fails to do it, neither captures *trace-output* (sbcl 1.3.12 linux)
2017-01-20T23:41:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-20T23:42:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:42:52Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T23:45:37Z FareTower joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:45:38Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-20T23:48:25Z PuercoPop: If I :use alexandria which exports the flatten symbol and then export it from my package would I run into a conflict when using both packages in a third one?
2017-01-20T23:48:59Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-20T23:49:07Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:49:48Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-20T23:51:48Z Bike: i think that they'd be the same symbol, so no.
2017-01-20T23:52:20Z Bike: seems to work for me.
2017-01-20T23:52:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-20T23:53:37Z PuercoPop: It does for me as well. I'm not sure what would cause this issue http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/stumpwm-devel/2017-01/msg00010.html
2017-01-20T23:53:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:54:49Z antonis quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-20T23:56:06Z shrdlu68 quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2017-01-20T23:57:12Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-20T23:58:35Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-20T23:59:23Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-21T00:04:13Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T00:04:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T00:05:07Z PuercoPop: Am I correct when to think that it is not common for a keyword argument of a macro to take a form. It is more idiomatic to pass a function instead right?
2017-01-21T00:05:38Z FareTower quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T00:07:30Z White_Flame: I've done (some-custom-macro-test :true (form...) :false (form...) :error (form ...) :other (form...))
2017-01-21T00:08:04Z White_Flame: you can always use a function call as a form, no need to restrict yourself to explicit function names
2017-01-21T00:08:13Z White_Flame: besides, I wouldn't trust to have function objects at compile time anyway
2017-01-21T00:09:55Z PuercoPop: White_Flame: thanks for the input. I'll go with a form then
2017-01-21T00:10:28Z White_Flame: in general, I think it's a code smell to pass data into macros.  You should always pass source code
2017-01-21T00:10:48Z White_Flame: the common exception would be magic symbols
2017-01-21T00:10:58Z aeth: Xach: Thanks. I guess I'll use the unhinted versions of fonts where available.
2017-01-21T00:11:02Z aeth: flip214: "the" is probably almost as popular as "let" because you only need one let or let* for possibly a ton of variables and you (afaik) need to use "the" each time.
2017-01-21T00:12:29Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-21T00:12:38Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-21T00:15:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-21T00:16:08Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-21T00:16:24Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T00:16:28Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T00:17:00Z PuercoPop: White_Flame: what do you mean by data in this context?
2017-01-21T00:17:56Z cantstanya quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T00:18:27Z prxq: White_Flame: how about macros that do partial evaluation?
2017-01-21T00:19:12Z White_Flame: PuercoPop: if you pass in a literal 3, and the macro works on that numerical value, that could be a problem
2017-01-21T00:19:24Z White_Flame: because you can't pass in a lexical variable A which might be holding 3
2017-01-21T00:19:38Z White_Flame: but obviously sometimes compile-time optimization needs to know literal values
2017-01-21T00:19:40Z White_Flame: anyway, afk
2017-01-21T00:20:46Z brfennpocock quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-21T00:24:04Z slyrus_ joined #lisp
2017-01-21T00:24:58Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-21T00:24:59Z slyrus_ is now known as slyrus
2017-01-21T00:26:01Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-21T00:26:59Z cantstanya joined #lisp
2017-01-21T00:27:50Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T00:33:03Z azrazalea joined #lisp
2017-01-21T00:33:10Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T00:33:46Z _death: there is an issue with macros and keyword parameters.. in the macro form, the programmer is responsible for the order of the arguments, and if these arguments are forms that appear in the expansion, there may be the expectation of preserving this order.. so the macro writer has to take a &rest parameter as well and work with that
2017-01-21T00:36:53Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-21T00:37:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T00:37:56Z PuercoPop: _death: in this case the keyword argument name indicates when it will be executed, :on-abort, so that won't be a problem
2017-01-21T00:38:31Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T00:40:43Z _death: then I don't see why not use a form
2017-01-21T00:41:07Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-21T00:41:31Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T00:41:41Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T00:41:41Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-21T00:42:23Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-21T00:44:42Z prhodes joined #lisp
2017-01-21T00:48:09Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-21T00:49:14Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T00:49:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T00:51:50Z prhodes quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T00:52:41Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T00:58:00Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-21T00:59:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T01:00:18Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:05:51Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:10:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T01:10:24Z paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:12:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:16:08Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:21:00Z shdeng joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:22:19Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T01:22:50Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T01:23:04Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:24:34Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:25:05Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:25:15Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:25:35Z yrdz` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T01:26:50Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:29:53Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T01:31:14Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:31:57Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:33:05Z handlex quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-21T01:35:07Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T01:36:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:40:59Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T01:48:08Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T01:48:35Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:48:41Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T01:52:39Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:57:01Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-21T01:57:23Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-21T01:57:41Z Fare quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T01:58:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T02:00:06Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:01:40Z warweasle joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:02:56Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-21T02:04:10Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T02:06:29Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-21T02:07:40Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:07:59Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-21T02:08:08Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:09:24Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T02:10:26Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:10:36Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:10:52Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:11:27Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:12:01Z prhodes joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:12:49Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:14:44Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-21T02:15:47Z space_otter joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:17:21Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:18:05Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-21T02:18:25Z maxirater joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:18:39Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:19:06Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:21:31Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-21T02:23:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:25:01Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-21T02:26:08Z safe quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-21T02:26:12Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T02:26:56Z axion: Opinion: Should I use ironclad pbkdf2 password hashing for a Lisp-based user account system, or is there some promising new technique exposed in libsodium via cl-sodium or some other library? It's been about 10 years since I have used ironclad, so looking for opinions on those that have more recent experience in cryptography
2017-01-21T02:33:29Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T02:33:56Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:36:40Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:38:02Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T02:41:35Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T02:42:41Z jason_m joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:43:22Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:43:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T02:45:35Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:47:49Z ym: Do slime-load-system works for your .asd-file, placed in default-directory?
2017-01-21T02:48:30Z ym: Documentation says it should, but it doesn't works for me.
2017-01-21T02:48:32Z Fare: ym: what "default-directory" ???
2017-01-21T02:48:55Z Fare: put your asd files in your source-registry, and everything will work.
2017-01-21T02:51:56Z paroneayea quit (Changing host)
2017-01-21T02:51:56Z paroneayea joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:52:21Z ym: Well, I don't want to put every asd file I wrote into one system place just to be able to work with asdf. Why should I? Documentation says slime-load-system will find .asd-files in default-directory, and it seems convenient to me.
2017-01-21T02:53:42Z ym: IIUC slime-find-asd-file function (Elisp) looks for asd files only in source-registry, as you say.
2017-01-21T02:55:05Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-21T02:55:07Z ym: But I don't get why. Is it bad style of system management or what?
2017-01-21T02:55:13Z Fare: ym: why not put everything under ~/common-lisp/ and/or a directory you registry in the source-registry?
2017-01-21T02:55:23Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-21T02:55:48Z Fare: Personally I have (:source-registry (:tree (:home "cl")) (:tree (:home "src/google/bazelisp")) :inherit-configuration) in my ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf
2017-01-21T02:56:21Z Fare: you can also use a link farm and/or ~/common-lisp/asdf/tools/cl-source-registry-cache.lisp
2017-01-21T02:56:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T02:56:34Z ym: Because I has a plenty of experimentation "projects" made just to play with them. And I like when all corresponding data is in one place.
2017-01-21T02:57:03Z Fare: As long as the names don't clash, there's nothing wrong with having your projects in the source-registry
2017-01-21T02:57:11Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:57:18Z ym: Doh. Ok. Never mind.
2017-01-21T02:57:39Z Fare: also, you can use a single package-inferred-system for lots of small projects.
2017-01-21T02:57:51Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:57:56Z Fare: as long as it's all simple lisp stuff.
2017-01-21T02:58:25Z ym: Thanks.
2017-01-21T02:58:30Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T02:59:08Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-21T02:59:23Z zacts joined #lisp
2017-01-21T03:01:52Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T03:03:48Z mejja joined #lisp
2017-01-21T03:06:24Z jameser quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T03:07:27Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-21T03:07:34Z maxirater quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-21T03:08:03Z maxirater joined #lisp
2017-01-21T03:09:49Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T03:10:00Z MrCuddle joined #lisp
2017-01-21T03:10:01Z Slurp joined #lisp
2017-01-21T03:10:04Z MrCuddle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T03:10:57Z Slurp quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T03:11:06Z maxirater quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-21T03:11:13Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T03:16:19Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-21T03:21:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T03:22:31Z dddddd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T03:23:11Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T03:34:26Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-21T03:35:44Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T03:36:41Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-21T03:37:30Z burton`: does anybody know of a CL library for printing numbers into human readable units, like 1024 => 1kb, etc?
2017-01-21T03:39:44Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T03:39:57Z Oladon: burton`: For English, you can just use format
2017-01-21T03:40:13Z burton`: not quite what i'm looking for
2017-01-21T03:40:22Z Oladon: Gotcha -- you're talking about sizes
2017-01-21T03:40:24Z burton`: if i think i know what you mean
2017-01-21T03:40:26Z burton`: yeah
2017-01-21T03:40:52Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T03:40:57Z burton`: you think they would have thought of that, designing format
2017-01-21T03:41:02Z Oladon: Heh
2017-01-21T03:41:08Z burton`: they ut in roman numerals
2017-01-21T03:41:18Z Oladon: It seems like the type of thing that maybe got stuck into "easy enough to implement if needed"
2017-01-21T03:41:57Z burton`: maybe it's on rosetta code
2017-01-21T03:44:22Z Bike: https://github.com/Ramarren/unit-formula there's this
2017-01-21T03:45:34Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T03:46:27Z burton`: got it: https://github.com/slime/slime/blob/master/swank/cmucl.lisp#L2244
2017-01-21T03:47:55Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T03:48:22Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T03:51:20Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-21T03:59:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T04:00:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T04:00:46Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-21T04:04:07Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-21T04:04:48Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T04:05:10Z SoraFirestorm joined #lisp
2017-01-21T04:09:00Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-21T04:10:39Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T04:12:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T04:19:53Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-21T04:22:54Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T04:24:03Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T04:34:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T04:35:27Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T04:37:35Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-21T04:37:48Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-21T04:42:11Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-21T04:45:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-21T04:46:58Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T04:55:44Z shrdlu68 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T04:56:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T04:58:29Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T04:59:52Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-21T05:00:13Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-21T05:01:16Z shrdlu68: In (handler-case (foo) (condition () nil)) shouldn't the handler handle *any* exceptional situation?
2017-01-21T05:02:01Z Bike: pretty much, yeah. is it not?
2017-01-21T05:02:06Z shrdlu68: By any I mean all conditions (errors or not) that are children of condition.
2017-01-21T05:02:40Z shrdlu68: Weird, I'm getting the debugger evoked even with this.
2017-01-21T05:02:50Z Bike: for what?
2017-01-21T05:02:54Z Bike: i mean, what is foo?
2017-01-21T05:03:02Z shrdlu68: But now that I've confirmed it should work let me take a closer look.
2017-01-21T05:03:09Z cebreidian quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T05:03:31Z nowolfer joined #lisp
2017-01-21T05:03:36Z Bike: (break) doesn't signal a condition, for example
2017-01-21T05:03:36Z shrdlu68: foo is a bunc of code that sometimes evokes the debugger because of network errors (usocket)
2017-01-21T05:03:51Z Bike: neither will direct calls to invoke-debugger
2017-01-21T05:03:52Z shrdlu68: s/bunc/bunch
2017-01-21T05:04:25Z shrdlu68: Then it's probably something else wrong with my code.
2017-01-21T05:04:28Z Bike: of course, that would be a wird thing for usocket to do
2017-01-21T05:04:33Z habs quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T05:06:46Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-21T05:08:10Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T05:09:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T05:10:09Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T05:11:07Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T05:14:24Z vibs29 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T05:16:04Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-21T05:17:10Z SoraFirestorm: o/
2017-01-21T05:19:34Z vibs29 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T05:20:06Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T05:20:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T05:21:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T05:25:51Z clintm joined #lisp
2017-01-21T05:26:43Z krwq joined #lisp
2017-01-21T05:27:27Z krwq left #lisp
2017-01-21T05:28:38Z clintm: Is there a canonical way to ensure that unwind-protect is executed on bt:thread-destory?  I saw the post on sbcl-help about installing an interrupt for signal 15 that calls sb-ext:quit, but I just want to cleanly stop a thread, not the whole image.
2017-01-21T05:32:15Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T05:32:41Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T05:33:35Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T05:37:42Z clintm: Ok, maybe it does work like you would expect.  I swear it wasn't working before, but seems to be now.
2017-01-21T05:42:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T05:42:33Z shrdlu68 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-21T05:44:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T05:48:11Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-21T05:53:59Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-21T05:53:59Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T05:55:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T05:57:22Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-21T05:58:22Z guicho joined #lisp
2017-01-21T05:58:22Z guicho quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-21T05:58:42Z guicho joined #lisp
2017-01-21T05:58:49Z guicho quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-21T05:59:14Z guicho joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:01:57Z gacepa joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:02:00Z tmtwd joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:05:26Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:06:17Z phax joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:06:32Z adolf_stalin quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T06:06:38Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T06:07:06Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:07:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:13:37Z SoraFirestorm quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-21T06:17:49Z mejja quit (Quit: \ No newline at end of file)
2017-01-21T06:18:36Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-21T06:18:58Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T06:19:22Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:20:05Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-21T06:20:06Z raynold[away] is now known as raynold
2017-01-21T06:23:10Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T06:23:19Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T06:23:36Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T06:24:04Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-21T06:29:20Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-21T06:30:41Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:30:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:31:05Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:31:52Z phax left #lisp
2017-01-21T06:33:07Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-21T06:36:53Z tmtwd quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-21T06:41:11Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:41:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-21T06:42:58Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:45:07Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:50:22Z heurist`_` joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:51:05Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:51:58Z heurist_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-21T06:54:26Z smokeink joined #lisp
2017-01-21T06:54:33Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T06:54:59Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:05:01Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T07:05:48Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:13:08Z eschatologist quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.3+deb2 - http://znc.in)
2017-01-21T07:13:44Z eschatologist joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:16:02Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-21T07:16:40Z snits quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-21T07:17:22Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:18:29Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:20:42Z clintm quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T07:21:15Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:24:17Z vegai left #lisp
2017-01-21T07:26:56Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T07:27:47Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:28:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:31:11Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T07:31:28Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:32:17Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:37:29Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-21T07:38:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T07:39:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:42:20Z fredshao joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:43:45Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T07:46:30Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:47:35Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:48:59Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:49:22Z nelder quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-21T07:50:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T07:50:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T07:51:05Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-21T08:00:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T08:02:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T08:09:09Z d4ryus4 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T08:09:50Z gacepa quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-21T08:11:10Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-21T08:11:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T08:12:00Z d4ryus3 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T08:12:10Z snits joined #lisp
2017-01-21T08:13:57Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T08:17:01Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T08:24:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-21T08:25:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T08:30:53Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-21T08:31:33Z quadresce: Anyone know enough emacs-foo to colorize DECLARE/DECLAIM/THE forms?
2017-01-21T08:33:04Z quadresce: (the entire S-expression, not just the symbol)
2017-01-21T08:33:45Z guicho quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T08:35:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T08:36:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T08:40:37Z ft quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T08:42:52Z nrp3c quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-21T08:47:05Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T08:47:33Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T08:48:13Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-21T08:50:17Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-21T08:57:00Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T08:58:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T09:00:12Z arquebus joined #lisp
2017-01-21T09:04:24Z arquebus quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-21T09:07:26Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-21T09:09:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T09:10:28Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T09:11:10Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T09:19:48Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T09:20:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T09:21:52Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T09:24:25Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-21T09:24:58Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T09:28:49Z Bike quit (Quit: rolling bootlegs)
2017-01-21T09:29:47Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-21T09:32:32Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T09:32:58Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T09:37:44Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-21T09:38:39Z jameser quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T09:39:45Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-21T09:39:51Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-21T09:42:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-21T09:43:59Z shenghi joined #lisp
2017-01-21T09:44:28Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T09:54:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T09:55:58Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T10:03:48Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T10:07:27Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T10:08:41Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T10:11:39Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-21T10:13:41Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T10:18:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-21T10:20:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T10:22:16Z Guest26 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T10:30:09Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T10:31:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T10:32:50Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T10:33:23Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-21T10:36:14Z arbv_ joined #lisp
2017-01-21T10:38:23Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T10:38:23Z arbv_ is now known as arbv
2017-01-21T10:40:23Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-21T10:41:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T10:42:30Z heurist`_` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T10:43:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T10:47:41Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-21T10:53:29Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-21T10:53:30Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T10:54:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T10:54:56Z diogo_franco joined #lisp
2017-01-21T10:57:24Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-21T10:57:46Z lisper joined #lisp
2017-01-21T10:59:14Z lisper: hi there. does any of the lisps out there have a notation for calling "inner functions"? As in, define a function that returns itself, which has local functions which can then be called?
2017-01-21T11:00:26Z paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T11:00:29Z lisper: (define mathlib (make-mathlib))  <-- make-mathlib returns a function with local functions
2017-01-21T11:00:46Z paul0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T11:01:00Z lisper: (mathlib#multiply 3 4)  <-- use local function
2017-01-21T11:01:03Z lisper: something like that
2017-01-21T11:04:40Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-21T11:05:13Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-21T11:05:52Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2017-01-21T11:06:28Z vap1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-21T11:06:32Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T11:09:39Z heurist`_` joined #lisp
2017-01-21T11:11:13Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-21T11:14:46Z lisper quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-21T11:15:23Z ft_ joined #lisp
2017-01-21T11:16:45Z fredshao quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-21T11:17:41Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T11:18:06Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T11:22:50Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T11:28:12Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T11:29:14Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-21T11:29:37Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T11:39:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T11:40:22Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T11:50:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T11:51:52Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-21T11:52:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T11:57:32Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T11:57:38Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T11:59:36Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2017-01-21T11:59:58Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-21T12:02:28Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T12:02:44Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-21T12:02:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T12:10:48Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-21T12:12:19Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T12:12:53Z Guest26 quit (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-21T12:13:01Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T12:13:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T12:14:45Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T12:17:42Z beach: minion: memo for lisper: The mechanism you are describing (inner functions) seems like a less powerful and less flexible mechanism than generic functions.  In addition to allowing what you want (by passing an object as one of the arguments to the function you want), it also allows for auxiliary methods, subclassing, etc.
2017-01-21T12:17:42Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell lisper when he/she/it next speaks.
2017-01-21T12:24:09Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-21T12:25:35Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T12:26:59Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-21T12:34:16Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-21T12:35:19Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T12:36:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T12:43:01Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-21T12:47:29Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T12:47:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T12:51:51Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-21T12:56:28Z declan joined #lisp
2017-01-21T12:57:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T12:59:07Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T12:59:32Z vicfred joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:03:41Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T13:08:06Z cywfong1 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:09:49Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T13:11:18Z maxmaeteling joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:11:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:11:53Z ft_ is now known as ft
2017-01-21T13:14:03Z Einwq joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:19:51Z Guest26 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:21:05Z cywfong1 quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-21T13:23:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-21T13:23:32Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T13:23:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:24:09Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:25:08Z maxmaeteling quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-21T13:25:23Z cywfong1 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:28:05Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T13:28:10Z declan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T13:28:21Z cebreidian joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:30:04Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:33:19Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T13:34:59Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T13:35:11Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:38:33Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:39:03Z cywfong1 quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-21T13:39:42Z cywfong1 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:39:48Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-21T13:40:00Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-21T13:40:23Z k-stz joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:41:29Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:44:44Z vicfred quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-21T13:45:03Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T13:45:52Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:49:13Z Guest26 quit (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-21T13:54:57Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:55:21Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-21T13:55:52Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-21T13:56:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:03:32Z zooey quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T14:04:43Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:05:32Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-21T14:06:21Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:06:52Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T14:08:30Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:09:24Z Guest24905 is now known as neuro_sys
2017-01-21T14:09:27Z neuro_sys quit (Changing host)
2017-01-21T14:09:27Z neuro_sys joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:16:27Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:18:27Z cywfong1 quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-21T14:19:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T14:20:08Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:21:25Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:22:55Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:29:52Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T14:31:03Z Blukunfando quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T14:31:45Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:39:58Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:41:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-21T14:42:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:44:58Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:45:54Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:46:22Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:46:47Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T14:46:47Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-21T14:48:14Z server_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-21T14:48:47Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:48:47Z server_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-21T14:49:02Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:51:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T14:53:33Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:55:53Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T14:57:03Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:58:00Z puchacz_ joined #lisp
2017-01-21T14:58:05Z puchacz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-21T14:58:08Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-21T15:03:59Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T15:04:26Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T15:11:33Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-21T15:13:26Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-21T15:14:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T15:15:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T15:18:53Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-21T15:24:49Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T15:25:06Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T15:25:33Z smokeink quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-21T15:25:57Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T15:26:53Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-21T15:27:06Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T15:28:09Z ak5 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-21T15:30:46Z o1e9 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T15:30:58Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-21T15:36:13Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T15:36:44Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-21T15:38:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T15:39:49Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-21T15:48:44Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T15:50:11Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T15:52:08Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-21T15:54:57Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-21T16:00:53Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T16:01:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T16:04:50Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T16:05:22Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T16:08:53Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-21T16:08:53Z klltkr quit (Changing host)
2017-01-21T16:08:53Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-21T16:10:52Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-21T16:12:57Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-21T16:14:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T16:21:17Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T16:21:27Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-21T16:24:52Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T16:25:11Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T16:26:17Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T16:26:41Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T16:32:53Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T16:32:58Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T16:33:08Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-21T16:37:09Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-21T16:38:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-21T16:40:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T16:41:53Z bigos quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T16:43:36Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-21T16:49:34Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T16:50:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T16:51:47Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T16:52:06Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T16:54:55Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-21T16:57:42Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:03:44Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T17:04:02Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:05:53Z genericus joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:08:16Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:08:41Z fourier joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:14:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-21T17:15:41Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:17:16Z fourier: is there anything around similar to RxJava ?
2017-01-21T17:17:50Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:17:50Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Changing host)
2017-01-21T17:17:50Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:20:56Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T17:22:39Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:23:17Z bigos quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-21T17:25:13Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-21T17:26:04Z pjb: Who know, what would RxJava be?  Some kind of caffeine based drug?
2017-01-21T17:27:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T17:28:23Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:32:36Z sword joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:39:24Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T17:40:40Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:43:10Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-21T17:43:21Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:47:44Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T17:47:57Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T17:48:03Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:48:17Z o1e9 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-21T17:49:15Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-21T17:52:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T17:54:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:57:41Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-21T17:58:00Z cywfong1 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:03:10Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T18:03:33Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T18:05:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-21T18:05:58Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:08:19Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T18:09:25Z freehck quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-21T18:10:22Z fourier: I've found SERIES to be similar, but they doesn't support async processing/multithreading (probably some implementation needed). Like to process data in one (or multiple) thread[s] and collect results/call callback in another
2017-01-21T18:10:28Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T18:13:26Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:14:06Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-21T18:14:06Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:15:58Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:17:03Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T18:17:40Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:17:40Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-21T18:20:36Z the_signalman joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:20:40Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:23:20Z nelder joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:23:49Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-21T18:25:23Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:27:01Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:28:47Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-21T18:29:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:31:42Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:39:04Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:39:40Z cywfong1 quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2017-01-21T18:40:14Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T18:41:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:43:06Z ski quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T18:48:50Z circ-user-jNagg joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:48:56Z itruslove quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-21T18:53:45Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-21T18:55:08Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T18:59:47Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-21T19:07:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T19:08:24Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T19:08:52Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T19:10:51Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-21T19:12:17Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-21T19:14:48Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-21T19:15:19Z maxirater joined #lisp
2017-01-21T19:18:48Z cromachina: fourier have you looked at lparallel?
2017-01-21T19:19:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T19:19:41Z fourier: cromachina: no, will take a look
2017-01-21T19:19:49Z fourier: thanks
2017-01-21T19:19:53Z cromachina: no probs
2017-01-21T19:20:09Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T19:21:10Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-21T19:24:54Z maxirater quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-21T19:29:57Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-21T19:30:39Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T19:31:59Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T19:33:12Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-21T19:37:27Z travv0` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T19:42:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T19:43:29Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-21T19:44:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T19:44:40Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-21T19:49:41Z klltkr quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-21T19:49:53Z Joreji joined #lisp
2017-01-21T19:51:47Z phoe_: fourier: lfarm
2017-01-21T19:51:55Z phoe_: for distrubuting work across machines
2017-01-21T19:52:43Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-21T19:53:09Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-21T19:53:20Z Fare: nice
2017-01-21T19:54:59Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T19:56:24Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-21T19:56:24Z klltkr quit (Changing host)
2017-01-21T19:56:24Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-21T19:56:33Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T20:00:45Z space_otter joined #lisp
2017-01-21T20:03:01Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T20:03:58Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T20:04:45Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-21T20:06:56Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-21T20:10:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-21T20:10:52Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T20:18:05Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-21T20:19:58Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-21T20:21:00Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-21T20:21:53Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-21T20:22:22Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T20:22:34Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T20:23:35Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T20:31:40Z fourier joined #lisp
2017-01-21T20:31:57Z payphone: Is there any way to easily unread or peek a byte from a binary stream, or should I just Flexi-Streams?
2017-01-21T20:32:09Z payphone: use*
2017-01-21T20:34:18Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-21T20:34:23Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T20:34:40Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T20:38:35Z antoszka: payphone: i don't think ANSI gives you functions to unread/peek a byte, unless your implementation treats all input chars as 8-bit entities.
2017-01-21T20:38:57Z antoszka: payphone: Which is unlikely, as most probably do their best to do unicode on chars.
2017-01-21T20:41:29Z payphone: antoszka: That's a bummer, thanks.
2017-01-21T20:42:13Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T20:43:45Z White_Flame: what happens if you use UNREAD-CHAR on a stream opened with :element-type  '(unsigned-byte 8) ?
2017-01-21T20:43:48Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-21T20:44:06Z antoszka: payphone: But the libraries should work mostly everywhere.
2017-01-21T20:44:09Z emaczen: In what ways can I force a file to be loaded? I've tried eval-when, but it doesn't seem to work...
2017-01-21T20:44:25Z emaczen: I'm using asdf:load-system
2017-01-21T20:44:29Z antoszka: emaczen: can you paste a sample?
2017-01-21T20:44:29Z White_Flame: also, the standard says you can only unread-char once, so it doesn't buffer deeper if you need that
2017-01-21T20:45:39Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T20:46:07Z emaczen: antoszka: I think what happens is that ASDF sees that the file has not changed, so it doesn't evaluate the forms (the forms are setting a special variable) and then when another file is loaded that depends on this special variable it fails.
2017-01-21T20:47:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T20:48:08Z antoszka: emaczen: i'm not very good with ASDF, so I'd leave that problem to others ;)
2017-01-21T20:48:31Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-21T20:49:56Z emaczen: antoszka: It might not even be ASDF loaded -- it does appear to load/evaluate the file (i put a print statement in this file)
2017-01-21T20:50:15Z emaczen: But it won't evaluate my macro forms (I put print statements inside them and they fail to print)
2017-01-21T20:50:59Z emaczen: antoszka: Oops, I meant not ASDF related
2017-01-21T20:52:44Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T20:53:12Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-21T20:56:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T20:58:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T20:58:55Z dim joined #lisp
2017-01-21T21:00:51Z dim: hi again!
2017-01-21T21:06:14Z gabnet joined #lisp
2017-01-21T21:06:33Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T21:08:13Z gabnet quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-21T21:09:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T21:11:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T21:11:23Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-21T21:13:30Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-21T21:20:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-21T21:21:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T21:23:26Z emaczen left #lisp
2017-01-21T21:24:32Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-21T21:28:11Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-21T21:29:01Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T21:32:35Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T21:32:37Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T21:32:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T21:35:42Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-21T21:36:14Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2017-01-21T21:36:54Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T21:37:28Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-21T21:39:39Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-21T21:42:26Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T21:43:48Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T21:46:07Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T21:48:25Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T21:50:11Z puchacz_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-21T21:55:15Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2017-01-21T21:55:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T21:56:27Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:00:31Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:02:48Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-21T22:05:51Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:07:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:08:01Z cpape`` joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:08:22Z shikhin_ joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:08:35Z shikhin quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:09:08Z cpape` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:09:08Z fe[nl]ix quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:09:08Z Blkt quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:09:08Z easye quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:09:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:09:33Z easye joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:09:48Z Blkt joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:09:50Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:13:34Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:19:39Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:20:08Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:22:59Z n3k0_t quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:24:17Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:26:05Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:26:17Z n3k0_t joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:26:49Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:30:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:30:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:32:34Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:36:58Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:37:52Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:39:45Z shikhin_ is now known as shikhin
2017-01-21T22:40:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:41:50Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:44:48Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:48:41Z Walex2 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:51:23Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:53:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T22:54:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:54:23Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2017-01-21T22:54:27Z axion: Hmm, it is possible I found a bug with cl-sqlite, though I'm not familiar enough with sqlite to be sure
2017-01-21T22:55:31Z pjb: you can always try sqlite3 stand alone and see if the bug still exists.
2017-01-21T22:55:43Z axion: well this is a problem with prepared statements
2017-01-21T22:55:48Z axion: so I'm not sure that will help
2017-01-21T22:58:08Z axion: seems cl-sqlite does not allow parameterized statements for "CREATE TABLE..." http://paste.lisp.org/display/337134
2017-01-21T23:00:01Z tokenrov1 is now known as tokenrove
2017-01-21T23:03:59Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T23:05:52Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T23:08:09Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-21T23:16:19Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T23:16:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T23:26:28Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T23:26:59Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-21T23:27:40Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-21T23:27:57Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T23:34:05Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-21T23:35:01Z genericus quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-21T23:35:33Z drmeister: Hi lispers - I have a question about generic function lambda lists.
2017-01-21T23:35:53Z drmeister: Emacs prints lambda lists of functions as you type them in.
2017-01-21T23:37:11Z drmeister: When you define a generic function, you provide a lambda list.  When you invoke DEFMETHOD, if the method defines &key arguments should they modify the lambda list of the generic function?
2017-01-21T23:37:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-21T23:38:40Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T23:41:46Z Bike: clhs 7.6.4
2017-01-21T23:41:46Z specbot: Congruent Lambda-lists for all Methods of a Generic Function: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/07_fd.htm
2017-01-21T23:41:48Z Bike: i would say yes
2017-01-21T23:44:59Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-21T23:46:39Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-21T23:47:22Z klltkr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-21T23:49:47Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-21T23:50:35Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-21T23:56:05Z drmeister: Hmm, I'm investigating ECL's congruent-lambda-p function - because it's tripping when I don't think it should
2017-01-21T23:56:57Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-21T23:57:06Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T00:00:19Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T00:01:23Z pjb: drmeister: really, it's implementation dependent. The generic function could dispatch from data, so only the data need to be updated when a method is defined.
2017-01-22T00:01:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T00:01:54Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-22T00:01:56Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-22T00:01:59Z drmeister: I don't understand "dispatch from data".  Could you elaborate?
2017-01-22T00:02:46Z pjb: I would think that on the contrary, defmethod should not imply a new lambda for the generic function, otherwise (function gf) would become invalid.
2017-01-22T00:02:47Z zacts quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-22T00:03:44Z drmeister: I don't think (function gf) can become invalid by updating the &key arguments for the lambda list.
2017-01-22T00:04:28Z zacts joined #lisp
2017-01-22T00:04:34Z drmeister: The reason I'm doing any updating is to provide slime with an up to date lambda-list for the generic function as methods are defined.
2017-01-22T00:04:58Z pjb: Well, I would have expected: (defgeneric foo () (:method (x) 'foo)) (defparameter *f* (function foo)) (defmethod foo ((x string)) 'string-foo) (assert (eql *f* (function foo)))
2017-01-22T00:05:00Z drmeister: Methods can add keyword arguments as long as the lambda list for the method supports every keyword of the defgeneric lambda-list.
2017-01-22T00:05:12Z pjb: but on all the implementations I have, (eql *f* (function foo)) returns NIL.
2017-01-22T00:05:38Z pjb: So yes, defmethod will redefine the generic function in abcl, ccl, clisp, ecl, sbcl.
2017-01-22T00:05:44Z drmeister: What I'm worried about is updating the lambda list of the generic function means the keyword list will keep growing and subsequent methods will need to be congruent with the updated lambda list.   It sounds like a runaway situation - not good.
2017-01-22T00:06:12Z pjb: One should use &allow-other-keys in the methods in that case.
2017-01-22T00:06:47Z drmeister: Yes, defmethod can redefine the discriminating function but the discriminating function doesn't pay attention to keyword arguments.
2017-01-22T00:08:21Z pjb: Oops, I made a mistake.  Actually (eql *f* (function foo))  returns T on all those implementations.
2017-01-22T00:08:58Z pjb: clall -r '(defgeneric foo () (:method ((x t)) (quote foo)))' '(defparameter *f* (function foo))' '(defmethod foo ((x string))  (quote string-foo))' '(values (eql *f* (function foo)) (funcall *f* "foo") (foo "foo"))'  --> T, STRING-FOO, STRING-FOO
2017-01-22T00:09:50Z pjb: So they behave like I expected: defining a new method doesn't redefine the generic function; therefore the generic function goes only thru data to select the method.
2017-01-22T00:10:32Z pjb: drmeister: the problem with keyword arguments, is that the extra keywords are only valid for the specific method.
2017-01-22T00:11:59Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-22T00:12:00Z pjb: (defgeneric foo (x &key &allow-other-keys))  (defmethod foo ((x string) &key and-string) (concatenate 'string x and-string))  (defmethod foo ((x integer) &key (and-integer 0)) (+ x and-integer))   (values (foo 1 :and-integer 2)  (foo "one " :and-string "two")) #| --> 3 ; "one two" |#
2017-01-22T00:12:39Z pjb: But when you type (foo |) you cannot know what keyword will be valid.  And when you type (foo some-var |), it would be hard to know it (in the editor).
2017-01-22T00:12:57Z pjb: Only for (foo 2 |) you could compute it.
2017-01-22T00:12:58Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T00:14:01Z pjb: That said, you could compute something like:   (foo integer [:and-integer
2017-01-22T00:14:15Z pjb: That said, you could compute something like:   (foo integer [:and-integer] | string [:and-string])
2017-01-22T00:14:55Z drmeister: Hmm, I'm not reaching enlightenment here.
2017-01-22T00:15:57Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-22T00:16:04Z drmeister: slime prints a lambda list when you type (fn |    what should that lambda list be for a generic function?   Up until now I've been maintaining a separate lambda list that merges the generic function lambda list with keywords from methods.
2017-01-22T00:16:40Z pjb: clall -r '(defgeneric foo (x &key))' '(defmethod foo ((x string) &key and-string) "a")' '(defmethod foo ((x integer) &key and-integer) 1)'
2017-01-22T00:16:43Z drmeister: Today I removed that separate lambda list and started writing the augmented lambda list back into the generic function lambda list - that appears to be a bad idea because the build broke.
2017-01-22T00:16:58Z pjb: Definining methods with additionnal &key doesn't change the generic function lambda list.
2017-01-22T00:17:35Z drmeister: Good point - I'll check what sbcl is doing now that I know how to look up the lambda list of a generic function.
2017-01-22T00:18:17Z pjb: Also, while in the editor you would expect a list of valid keyword arguments, the actual keyword arguments are only checked at run-time. So, inside the methods, not in the generic function.
2017-01-22T00:19:22Z drmeister: sbcl maintains two separate lambda lists.
2017-01-22T00:19:27Z isoraqathedh: gsll seems to be erroring out on a package lock violation on sb-impl.
2017-01-22T00:19:33Z pjb: This is why (x &key) for the generic function lets you call it with some specific keyword without run-time error (if there's a corresponding method that accepts the keyword).
2017-01-22T00:20:14Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-22T00:20:26Z pjb: For normal functions, you'd need the &allow-other-keys or :allow-other-keys…
2017-01-22T00:20:30Z isoraqathedh: Here's the error message: http://pastebin.com/9CTXMNJ3
2017-01-22T00:21:04Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-22T00:21:39Z isoraqathedh: (Running Linux Mint 18, SBCL 1.3.13.77-635de32)
2017-01-22T00:21:42Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/0s5uaFAJ/
2017-01-22T00:21:43Z isoraqathedh: 64bit I think.
2017-01-22T00:22:19Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T00:23:09Z pjb: drmeister: clearly, slime scans all the methods to gather all the keywords.
2017-01-22T00:23:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T00:24:09Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-22T00:27:29Z Xach: isoraqathedh: that is fixed in the latest release of static-vectors, which is not yet in a quicklisp release. you can avoid the problem by downgrading sbcl or by locally cloning static-vectors.
2017-01-22T00:27:34Z Xach: there are perhaps other options
2017-01-22T00:27:51Z isoraqathedh: I guess I'll just wait until the next release.
2017-01-22T00:28:16Z Xach: should be soon
2017-01-22T00:28:56Z Xach is brain-boggled about a problem building femlisp currently
2017-01-22T00:31:09Z nullx002- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T00:34:03Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T00:34:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T00:37:34Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T00:38:09Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-22T00:44:19Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T00:45:48Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T00:48:55Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-22T00:50:27Z lisp427 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T00:50:59Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T00:52:47Z AndChat494769 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T00:53:07Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-22T00:55:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-22T00:56:07Z AndChat494769 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-22T00:56:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:02:34Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:04:19Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:05:30Z williamyaoh joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:05:45Z DeadTrickster quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:06:39Z lisp427 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:06:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:07:10Z cibs_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:08:06Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:08:54Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:17:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:17:48Z fourier joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:19:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:22:05Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:22:25Z jameser quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T01:24:03Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:24:27Z DeadTrickster__ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:24:47Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:28:05Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:28:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:30:07Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:30:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:37:04Z krwq joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:37:47Z krwq: hey, how do you force lisp compiler to process what it reads before continuing when loading a lisp file?
2017-01-22T01:38:25Z dddddd quit (Quit: Hasta otra..)
2017-01-22T01:39:47Z Bike: eval-when.
2017-01-22T01:39:50Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:40:20Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:41:03Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-22T01:41:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:41:39Z Bike: usually just (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) ...whatever...)
2017-01-22T01:42:22Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:44:22Z krwq: Bike: what i want to achieve is to be sure that when i define macro x and use it in the same file the statements above are already expanded and evaluated
2017-01-22T01:44:45Z Bike: yes, eval-when will do this.
2017-01-22T01:45:01Z guicho joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:45:03Z krwq: Bike: do i do it on the macro or the statement?
2017-01-22T01:45:16Z krwq: or the whole file
2017-01-22T01:45:21Z Bike: Whatever you want to force the compiler to evaluate. It sounds like that would be the things before the macro.
2017-01-22T01:45:36Z krwq: can i use that inside the macro?
2017-01-22T01:45:59Z Bike: you can use it in the macroexpansion.
2017-01-22T01:46:08Z krwq: ok let me try it
2017-01-22T01:46:29Z Bike: if it doesn't work, it's probably because i misunderstand what you're doing, and i could probably offer some better advice with more context.
2017-01-22T01:46:45Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:46:48Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:47:49Z White_Flame: it really would be best to put macros in another file that's loaded before the code that uses them
2017-01-22T01:48:17Z DeadTrickster__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T01:49:05Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:49:41Z krwq: Bike: the case is that whenever i create cffi's foreign type i add all the fields associated with a type to a dictionary and so that I dont need to do (:struct foo) and can use foo instead when defining new type. what i'm doing right now is i have a macro over defcstruct which does that + adds a name + fields to a dictionary
2017-01-22T01:50:10Z krwq: the problem appears when I try to use the dictionary content when using macro
2017-01-22T01:50:30Z krwq: I'm probably doing it wrong but I'm not sure what's the right way
2017-01-22T01:50:31Z Bike: that certainly sounds like a macro to expand into an eval when.
2017-01-22T01:51:15Z krwq: im not sure should i use all cases in eval-when or just one of them? i can't wrap my hand around how this works
2017-01-22T01:51:35Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:51:45Z Bike: eval-when is one of the more confusing constructs in the language.
2017-01-22T01:52:25Z krwq: is there some good reading with examples about it?
2017-01-22T01:52:28Z Bike: but to simplify. :compile-toplevel means that the forms will be evaluated by compile-file, at compile time. :load-toplevel means that the forms will be evaluated when the fasl is loaded - ie it's the normal case. :execute means that the forms will be evaluated if the source is loaded without being compiled.
2017-01-22T01:52:43Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:52:47Z Bike: you can usually just do all three and it works out.
2017-01-22T01:53:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:53:44Z aeth: Bike: Is there any benefit to doing as much as possible precomputed at compile time if e.g. a binary is going to be distributed? Or does CL not work like that?
2017-01-22T01:53:45Z krwq: Bike: should I be defining my macro as (defmacro foo () (eval-when ...)) or quote (eval-when ...)?
2017-01-22T01:54:06Z Bike: it sounds like you'd be doing (defmacro mydefstruct () `(eval-when ...))
2017-01-22T01:54:34Z Bike: eval-when has no meaning except at "top level", which is another confusing concept that can be mostly summarized as being the outermost operator in the form.
2017-01-22T01:54:35Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-22T01:54:59Z Bike: aeth: i don't understand your question. is this related to what krwq is doing?
2017-01-22T01:55:39Z aeth: Bike: no, I was just asking because you have provided the only explanation I've seen that makes sense of eval-when
2017-01-22T01:56:14Z aeth: Bike: I was wondering if there was a performance benefit to evaling something at compile time in most CLs.
2017-01-22T01:57:08Z Bike: if it's a number from a complicated formula or something, sure, why not
2017-01-22T01:57:21Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:57:40Z klltkr quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:58:08Z williamyaoh: Although you wouldn't want EVAL-WHEN for that, you'd want #.
2017-01-22T01:58:09Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-22T01:58:09Z Bike: krwq: as an obvious example, defcstruct expands into an eval-when form
2017-01-22T01:58:40Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-22T01:59:02Z krwq: Bike: I think it works - thank you a lot! :)
2017-01-22T01:59:06Z Bike: no problem
2017-01-22T01:59:23Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-22T01:59:28Z krwq: that would probably take me a while to figure out - i'd probably find some way to workaround this
2017-01-22T01:59:50Z aeth: If something generated doesn't depend on user input at all, it seems like the time savings for eval-when could be huge.
2017-01-22T02:00:11Z aeth: williamyaoh: Based on this, it seems like #. has more potential pitfalls. https://google.github.io/styleguide/lispguide.xml?showone=EVAL-WHEN#Meta-language_guidelines
2017-01-22T02:00:26Z Bike: in my experience it's actually pretty rare that i have anything i could compute at compile time, but that might just be because of the problems i deal with
2017-01-22T02:00:42Z williamyaoh: aeth: EVAL-WHEN doesn't work like that; if you do (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :execute) ...), then you'll *only* see the results in your compilation environment
2017-01-22T02:00:52Z williamyaoh: aeth: They won't go into the generated FASL
2017-01-22T02:01:16Z Bike: aeth: this doesn't seem to say anything about #.
2017-01-22T02:01:20Z williamyaoh: aeth: (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) ...) will calculate it at both compile and load times, which defeats the purpose
2017-01-22T02:01:25Z aeth: Bike: it's under "read-time evaluation"
2017-01-22T02:01:33Z Bike: oh, the next section.
2017-01-22T02:02:03Z aeth: I think the t;dr is that it's saying that #. should only be used when there's no side effects
2017-01-22T02:02:11Z Bike: more or less. it's not especially confusing.
2017-01-22T02:02:27Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:02:56Z Bike: indeed the case of a convoluted calculation can pretty much just be (defvar *foo* #.(compute-slowly ...))
2017-01-22T02:02:58Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:03:59Z Bike: you can do tricksy things with eval-when if that's not good enough for some ridiculous reason
2017-01-22T02:04:14Z fouric quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-22T02:04:49Z aeth: What I'm thinking of is doing something similar to one of those C++ template-only libraries. Afaik, I think the more direct equivalent would be define-compiler-macro *if* compiler-macros had access to type information, which they don't (although CL compilers can have their own versions that do, like SBCL does).
2017-01-22T02:04:53Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T02:04:57Z DeadTrickster__ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:05:00Z aeth: It should be much easier to do in CL than in C++
2017-01-22T02:05:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T02:05:10Z Bike: i've only seen eval-when with just :compile-toplevel a few times, such as in cl-jpeg, which does some confusing thing to figure out which version of some code is actually faster
2017-01-22T02:05:56Z Bike: which amounts to (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (defvar *quantize-optimization* ...)) (defmacro whatever (if *quantize-optimization* ....))
2017-01-22T02:06:25Z Bike: "template-only library" sounds like boost and i don't want to understand boost any more than i already do
2017-01-22T02:06:45Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:07:16Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:07:22Z pjb: aeth: obviously, there are performance benefit of precomputing results at compilation time.
2017-01-22T02:08:03Z lisp99 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:08:10Z lisp99: hi ;)
2017-01-22T02:08:13Z pjb: aeth: for example, if you have to write a program that must print the digits of PI up until a parameter n, then you can pre-compute all the digits of PI at compilation time, and then just use subseq at run-time.
2017-01-22T02:08:22Z DeadTrickster_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T02:09:17Z aeth: pjb: right, but it could also be done at read time with #.
2017-01-22T02:09:30Z pjb: indeed.
2017-01-22T02:13:07Z diogo_franco quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T02:14:02Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:14:22Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T02:17:20Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T02:17:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:18:22Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T02:25:20Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:26:32Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-22T02:26:39Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T02:27:04Z aeth: ah, an issue with #. is that it probably doesn't work as you expect if you're using a more complicated data structure
2017-01-22T02:27:12Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T02:27:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T02:27:40Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:28:00Z aeth: e.g. #.(list 'hi) will try to run (HI), and will probably get an undefined function error
2017-01-22T02:28:37Z aeth: If the first element is a list, you'll get an illegal function call error because it'll try to do something like: ((4))
2017-01-22T02:28:56Z Bike: a problem that can be solved with one character isn't much of a problem
2017-01-22T02:28:59Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:29:03Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:29:04Z Bike: for arbitrary data structures it can get worse, though
2017-01-22T02:29:30Z Bike: not because of problematic evaluation, but because data structures are usually stored in fasls procedurally, so it may not be so advantageous timewise
2017-01-22T02:30:23Z aeth: It does work for some data structures (unlike lists), e.g. #.(vector 5 4 3 2)
2017-01-22T02:30:56Z Bike: what i meant to imply was, you can do '#.(list 'hi) and hey, no problem.
2017-01-22T02:31:26Z aeth: yes, if you know it's a list, and yeah, I noticed that
2017-01-22T02:31:33Z aeth: I used (quote #.(foo)) though
2017-01-22T02:32:20Z Bike: '#.(+ 4 4) isn't going to hurt anything.
2017-01-22T02:33:20Z aeth: interestingly, it remembers the type of the array at least in the implementations I tested this on, which I didn't expect: '#.(make-array 4 :element-type 'fixnum :initial-contents (list 5 4 3 2))
2017-01-22T02:33:56Z Bike: it would violate the standard to not
2017-01-22T02:34:00Z aeth: I expected it to just see #(5 4 3 2) and interpret it as '#.#(5 4 3 2) and make it a (simple-vector 4)
2017-01-22T02:34:04Z Bike: i think it can drop simplicity though
2017-01-22T02:34:18Z Bike: ...er, expected what to "just see"?
2017-01-22T02:34:40Z aeth: I thought read-eval was stupider than it is because of how it handles the edge case of lists
2017-01-22T02:35:08Z Bike: #. is very stupid. it just returns the result of evaluation as the result of read.
2017-01-22T02:35:27Z Bike: (read-from-string "#.(list 'hi)") => (hi), so if you have (eval (read ...)), there you go
2017-01-22T02:35:56Z Bike: clhs 3.2.4.2.2
2017-01-22T02:35:57Z specbot: Definition of Similarity: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_bdbb.htm
2017-01-22T02:36:08Z Bike: is the stuff preserved by fasl loading. you can see the actual array element type is in there
2017-01-22T02:37:22Z handlex quit (Quit: handlex)
2017-01-22T02:38:02Z aeth: (read-from-string "#.(make-array 4 :element-type 'fixnum :initial-contents (list 5 4 3 2))") => #(5 4 3 2) ; but it *is* a fixnum array, it just doesn't look like it in the REPL!
2017-01-22T02:38:21Z aeth: I think where I got confused is that the read-in thing is *already* that data structure, and running (eval) on the above does nothing
2017-01-22T02:38:24Z Bike: is *print-readably* false
2017-01-22T02:38:36Z aeth: yes
2017-01-22T02:38:47Z aeth: I was thinking it got read to #(5 4 3 2) and then (eval #(5 4 3 2)) was run
2017-01-22T02:38:47Z Bike: there you go then, it just prints it as #() because that's easier
2017-01-22T02:39:07Z Bike: if you're on sbcl and you set *print-readably* to true and print a fixnum array you'll see that it's some bullshit
2017-01-22T02:40:12Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-22T02:40:19Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T02:40:22Z Bike: so, no, it's read to a fixnum array, since the form returns a fixnum array. really quite simple. printing is just dumb sometimes.
2017-01-22T02:41:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:41:43Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:41:43Z aeth: (let ((*print-readably* t)) (print (read-from-string "#.(make-array 4 :element-type 'fixnum :initial-contents (list 5 4 3 2))"))) => #.(COERCE #(5 4 3 2) '(SIMPLE-ARRAY FIXNUM (*)))
2017-01-22T02:41:48Z aeth: For anyone who wants to follow along at home
2017-01-22T02:42:07Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T02:43:52Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:44:54Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:45:03Z aeth: I didn't know you could coerce with a wildcard to produce something that has a fixed length. So that means e.g.(typep (coerce (list #\a #\b #\c #\d #\e) '(simple-array character (*))) '(simple-array character (5))) => T
2017-01-22T02:46:06Z Bike: er, what?
2017-01-22T02:46:21Z Bike: the * is part of the type, it's nothing to do with coerce directly.
2017-01-22T02:46:28Z aeth: I used that as an example because every implementation must upgrade characters, but they don't have to upgrade fixnums. CLISP doesn't. There's no practical reason to write strings that way afaik.
2017-01-22T02:47:05Z Einwq quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-22T02:49:13Z pjb quit (Quit: Be seeing you!)
2017-01-22T02:51:19Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T02:51:54Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-22T02:52:41Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T02:55:11Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-22T03:03:37Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-22T03:04:16Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T03:04:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T03:08:59Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-22T03:10:33Z axion: #. can be treated just as a literal, since it basically is
2017-01-22T03:10:47Z jameser quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T03:11:16Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-22T03:12:35Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-22T03:12:39Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-22T03:14:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-22T03:15:45Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T03:15:59Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T03:16:12Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-22T03:23:28Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T03:26:02Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T03:27:52Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-22T03:31:41Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-22T03:31:48Z gigetoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T03:32:25Z krwq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T03:48:31Z gigetoo_ is now known as gigetoo
2017-01-22T03:53:25Z arescorpio quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T03:56:18Z emma quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-22T03:56:28Z emma joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:01:22Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-22T04:03:23Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-22T04:07:11Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:10:01Z Ven quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-22T04:11:18Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-22T04:12:38Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-22T04:13:31Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:13:33Z loke`` joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:13:57Z emma joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:13:59Z drot quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T04:15:29Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:17:47Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-22T04:20:06Z emma quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T04:20:40Z emma_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:21:04Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-22T04:23:38Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T04:23:44Z Ven_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:24:57Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:25:06Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:25:32Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-22T04:27:48Z emma_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T04:28:06Z emma joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:30:04Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-22T04:34:03Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-22T04:34:57Z Amplituhedron quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T04:36:32Z phax joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:40:40Z emma joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:40:45Z emma quit (Changing host)
2017-01-22T04:40:45Z emma joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:41:04Z phax quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-22T04:42:08Z drot joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:42:47Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:44:45Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:45:36Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-22T04:47:03Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T04:48:13Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-22T04:51:44Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-22T05:07:38Z Ven_ quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-22T05:11:05Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-22T05:18:34Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-22T05:18:58Z attila_lendvai quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-22T05:19:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-22T05:27:06Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-22T05:34:01Z emma joined #lisp
2017-01-22T05:45:53Z emma_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T05:48:18Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T05:49:20Z drmeister: Man - I have a tough problem.
2017-01-22T05:49:40Z emma quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-22T05:49:47Z emma_ is now known as emma
2017-01-22T05:50:12Z drmeister: I've got this method definition for shared-initialize - it seems to violate the rules of lambda list congruence with other shared-initialize functions.
2017-01-22T05:50:14Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/2nWtG6Br/
2017-01-22T05:50:27Z drmeister: I've been staring at this all day.
2017-01-22T05:50:34Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-22T05:50:59Z drmeister: The lambda list is incongruent with other shared-initialize lambda lists that were previously defined - like this one:
2017-01-22T05:52:21Z drmeister: (defmethod shared-initialize ((class class) slot-names &rest initargs &key direct-superclasses)
2017-01-22T05:52:59Z drmeister: But almost every method of shared-initialize looks incongruent with the other methods.
2017-01-22T05:53:17Z drmeister: They all accept different keyword arguments.
2017-01-22T05:53:31Z drmeister: clhs 7.6.4
2017-01-22T05:53:32Z specbot: Congruent Lambda-lists for all Methods of a Generic Function: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/07_fd.htm
2017-01-22T05:55:03Z Bike: it has allow-other-keys.
2017-01-22T05:55:16Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T05:55:38Z Bike: ...also, i think shared-initialize has special rules for what &key arguments it accepts.
2017-01-22T05:55:42Z Bike: clhs 7.1.2
2017-01-22T05:55:42Z specbot: Declaring the Validity of Initialization Arguments: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/07_ab.htm
2017-01-22T05:56:48Z itruslove joined #lisp
2017-01-22T05:57:35Z qwerty-- joined #lisp
2017-01-22T05:57:37Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-22T05:57:45Z drmeister: What does this mean as the syntax?   "shared-initialize instance slot-names &rest initargs &key &allow-other-keys => instance"
2017-01-22T05:58:19Z drmeister: The fact that there is an &allow-other-keys - does that mean that the generic function allways has &allow-other-keys set?
2017-01-22T05:59:38Z Bike: as it says in 7.6.4 you linked, yes.
2017-01-22T06:00:06Z Bike: as for the syntax, it means shared-initialize takes two required arguments, a &rest-list argument, and keys it doesn't use directly.
2017-01-22T06:00:23Z drmeister: Because in ECL s.NONE of the methods for shared-initialize contain &allow-other-key
2017-01-22T06:00:28Z drmeister: &allow-other-keys
2017-01-22T06:00:44Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-22T06:00:56Z Bike: how about the generic function?
2017-01-22T06:01:35Z drmeister: I can't find any.  Unless it's being initialized some other way.
2017-01-22T06:01:57Z Bike: well as i said i think shared-initialize doesn't behave quite normally with its keys to begin with.
2017-01-22T06:02:38Z drmeister: I'm trying to find where it's special cased - I can't find anything.  Argh
2017-01-22T06:02:59Z Bike: also, it's an internal function, so ecl can kind of do w hatever it wants.
2017-01-22T06:03:38Z Bike: internal, standard, whatever.
2017-01-22T06:04:21Z Bike: oh, yeah it's definitely explicitly specified more in 7.1.2. It doesn't work like other generic functions.
2017-01-22T06:05:46Z drmeister: This is what I get from ECL about it:
2017-01-22T06:05:47Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/tMojMi2z/
2017-01-22T06:06:01Z drmeister: Reading 7.1.2 again
2017-01-22T06:07:26Z Bike: why are you concerned with this, pray?
2017-01-22T06:08:42Z drmeister: Clasp won't build.
2017-01-22T06:09:24Z drmeister: It fails in bclasp in src/lisp/modules/sockets/sockets
2017-01-22T06:09:36Z drmeister: The 5th last file in the freaking list.
2017-01-22T06:09:53Z drmeister: It's taking me for ever to figure this out.   I don't know why it was working before.
2017-01-22T06:10:04Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-22T06:10:36Z Bike: are you saying it fails because of the defmethod on L274 that has allow-other-keys?
2017-01-22T06:11:18Z Bike: 7.6.4 is pretty clear that you can have a defmethod with &aok regardless of whether the gf has it.
2017-01-22T06:11:37Z drmeister: ItppYep
2017-01-22T06:11:55Z drmeister: Yep - that's where it's failing
2017-01-22T06:12:13Z drmeister: The ECL congruency test ignores the &aok.
2017-01-22T06:12:37Z drmeister: https://github.com/drmeister/clasp/blob/dev/src/lisp/kernel/clos/fixup.lsp#L129
2017-01-22T06:13:02Z Bike: how is it failing then?
2017-01-22T06:13:03Z drmeister: The new lambda list (the one from sockets) will be l1
2017-01-22T06:13:33Z Bike: really? looks like it should be l2.
2017-01-22T06:13:35Z drmeister: It's failing the congruency test against all but one of the shared-initialize methods
2017-01-22T06:13:58Z Bike: or, well, i guess either... huh
2017-01-22T06:14:16Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-22T06:14:35Z drmeister: It's invoked from here: https://github.com/drmeister/clasp/blob/4930b1dbfe8fece10402140497867a9842918147/src/lisp/kernel/clos/generic.lsp#L168
2017-01-22T06:16:09Z drmeister: It fails that congruency test - almost every shared-initialize method lambda list "x" fails to be congruent with "lambda-list"
2017-01-22T06:16:40Z Bike: does ecl actually call it on shared-initialize?
2017-01-22T06:17:06Z drmeister: Call what?  That congruency test?
2017-01-22T06:17:17Z Bike: well, any of that.
2017-01-22T06:17:24Z Bike: i mean, for one, that code is in a shared-initialize method
2017-01-22T06:17:39Z drmeister: Apparently.  It keeps crashing there.
2017-01-22T06:17:47Z drmeister: Right - that confuses me as well.
2017-01-22T06:18:11Z drmeister: Does that seem weird to you?
2017-01-22T06:19:32Z Bike: a bit.
2017-01-22T06:20:14Z drmeister: It is a defmethod that's being invoked and this is shared-initialize for generic-function - so I thought - why not?
2017-01-22T06:20:52Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-22T06:21:17Z drmeister: When I take that sockets file out of the build - it works fine.
2017-01-22T06:22:00Z Bike: does jackdaniel know these depths of clos?
2017-01-22T06:23:21Z drmeister: The sockets file comes from the ecl/contrib directory -
2017-01-22T06:23:22Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T06:23:36Z drmeister: https://gitlab.com/embeddable-common-lisp/ecl/blob/develop/contrib/sockets/sockets.lisp#L327
2017-01-22T06:23:39Z Bike: i mean that defmethod is certainly valid.
2017-01-22T06:24:07Z drmeister: And that's because of the &allow-other-keys - correct?
2017-01-22T06:25:23Z drmeister: If I added &key &allow-other-keys  to this:  https://github.com/drmeister/clasp/blob/dev/src/lisp/kernel/clos/standard.lsp#L39
2017-01-22T06:25:27Z Bike: it's valid because (a) shared-initialize is defined to have aok anyway (b) even if it wasn't, adding aok to a method is ok per 7.6.4 (c) that file is copied from sbcl
2017-01-22T06:25:38Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-22T06:25:44Z Bike: yeah, adding key aok sounds good to me.
2017-01-22T06:26:39Z adlai: good morning beach !
2017-01-22T06:27:26Z drmeister: It seems like I shouldn't need to do that.   Also, the way that congruent-lambda-p works - I fear it will still fail on sockets because the aok flag of one method doesn't seem to effect others.
2017-01-22T06:27:48Z drmeister: The fact that aok is defined in the definition of shared-initialize - how does that work?
2017-01-22T06:27:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-22T06:28:11Z drmeister: That means that shared-initialize always behaves like &aok was added to every method on it?
2017-01-22T06:28:18Z Bike: well, yes and no.
2017-01-22T06:28:30Z Bike: it would mean that if shared-initialize was a normal generic function, but shared-initialize has its own rules in 7.1.2.
2017-01-22T06:28:33Z Bike: i think.
2017-01-22T06:29:35Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-22T06:30:10Z emma joined #lisp
2017-01-22T06:32:26Z drmeister: This is a particularily obtuse part of the CLHS
2017-01-22T06:34:53Z drmeister: I can load the file into bclasp once bclasp is built without it.
2017-01-22T06:34:55Z drmeister: Weird
2017-01-22T06:40:09Z drmeister: I enable the file and it works again.
2017-01-22T06:40:11Z drmeister: ARGH
2017-01-22T06:40:24Z drmeister: I spent the whole day on this.
2017-01-22T06:41:43Z drmeister: I took out a bunch of debugging code - maybe I was screwing myself up.
2017-01-22T06:41:57Z drmeister: I'm nuking everything from orbit and rebuilding.
2017-01-22T06:44:13Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T06:46:18Z emma quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2017-01-22T06:50:14Z lisp99 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-22T06:51:15Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-22T06:53:03Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-22T06:55:34Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-22T07:02:37Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T07:02:50Z easye quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T07:05:28Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-22T07:06:47Z nowolfer quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-22T07:08:40Z easye joined #lisp
2017-01-22T07:10:50Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-22T07:12:14Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-22T07:13:05Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-22T07:14:54Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T07:19:46Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-22T07:24:39Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-22T07:27:19Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T07:30:09Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T07:37:38Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-22T07:40:43Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-22T07:45:08Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T07:45:13Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-22T07:45:25Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T07:46:16Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-22T07:53:20Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:01:42Z arquebus joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:06:21Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:09:28Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:09:58Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:10:08Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-22T08:10:50Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-22T08:11:36Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:12:10Z d4ryus4 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T08:20:39Z arquebus quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-22T08:20:57Z arquebus joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:24:49Z arquebus quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-22T08:25:00Z axion: Could anyone try to see if (clsql:enable-sql-reader-syntax) works for them? It should modify the readtable for #\[ such that evaluating [foo] will return an object
2017-01-22T08:25:06Z axion: It does not seem to be working for me
2017-01-22T08:25:13Z arquebus joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:25:56Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-22T08:26:40Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:26:52Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:27:48Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:29:23Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:31:04Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:31:04Z klltkr quit (Changing host)
2017-01-22T08:31:04Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:35:03Z arquebus quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-22T08:36:58Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-22T08:45:55Z psacrifice joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:46:35Z jameser quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T08:47:18Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:52:06Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T08:52:21Z guicho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T08:53:17Z guicho joined #lisp
2017-01-22T08:58:14Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-22T08:59:19Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T09:01:25Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T09:01:43Z _main_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T09:01:59Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T09:01:59Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-22T09:02:29Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T09:04:18Z _main_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T09:04:28Z __main__ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T09:05:32Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-22T09:09:27Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-22T09:11:20Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-22T09:13:04Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-22T09:18:12Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-22T09:21:04Z Patzy joined #lisp
2017-01-22T09:22:56Z Bike quit (Quit: who are you)
2017-01-22T09:39:50Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-22T09:41:55Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-22T09:45:06Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T09:45:42Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T09:45:44Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2017-01-22T09:52:12Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-22T10:00:14Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-22T10:08:37Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T10:08:38Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T10:09:17Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-22T10:13:27Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2017-01-22T10:15:03Z Phoenix_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T10:16:20Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-22T10:21:39Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-22T10:23:34Z zooey quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T10:25:43Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T10:27:38Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-22T10:29:41Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-22T10:30:36Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-22T10:32:10Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T10:32:18Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-22T10:35:29Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T10:39:47Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-22T10:40:09Z shenghi quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T10:45:39Z psacrifice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T10:45:43Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-22T10:47:00Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T10:49:16Z shenghi joined #lisp
2017-01-22T10:50:22Z psacrifice joined #lisp
2017-01-22T10:53:44Z aje joined #lisp
2017-01-22T10:56:13Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-22T11:00:08Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-22T11:03:23Z psacrifice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T11:03:49Z jibanes quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-22T11:05:44Z jibanes joined #lisp
2017-01-22T11:11:02Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2017-01-22T11:12:02Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-22T11:16:29Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-22T11:19:51Z mathrick joined #lisp
2017-01-22T11:20:32Z Younder quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T11:26:52Z drot quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T11:28:49Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-22T11:31:58Z Einwq joined #lisp
2017-01-22T11:32:46Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-22T11:47:39Z drot joined #lisp
2017-01-22T11:53:09Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-22T11:55:30Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T11:59:46Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-22T12:07:44Z psacrifice joined #lisp
2017-01-22T12:10:08Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-22T12:11:35Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T12:12:21Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-22T12:17:32Z psacrifice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T12:20:39Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T12:26:16Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-22T12:28:19Z psacrifice joined #lisp
2017-01-22T12:30:11Z Josh_2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T12:31:45Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T12:32:31Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T12:41:01Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-22T12:41:01Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-22T12:41:01Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-22T12:42:27Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-22T12:48:01Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-22T12:48:26Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-22T12:48:42Z lambda-smith quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-22T12:51:40Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-22T12:51:55Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2017-01-22T12:53:35Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T13:01:47Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-22T13:04:22Z _death: works here
2017-01-22T13:05:03Z wz1000 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2017-01-22T13:05:04Z paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T13:05:29Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T13:12:58Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-22T13:18:29Z cebreidian quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-22T13:19:19Z qwerty--_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T13:19:49Z omilu quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-22T13:19:50Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-22T13:20:35Z qwerty-- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T13:21:35Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-22T13:23:14Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-22T13:23:56Z cebreidian joined #lisp
2017-01-22T13:26:00Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-22T13:32:39Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-22T13:35:38Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-22T13:42:15Z qwerty--_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T13:50:33Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-22T13:50:54Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-22T13:52:08Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-22T13:54:05Z troydm quit (Quit: What is hope? That all of your wishes and all of your dreams come true? (C) Rau Le Creuset)
2017-01-22T13:55:22Z k-stz joined #lisp
2017-01-22T13:55:54Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-22T13:56:14Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T13:56:16Z troydm quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T13:57:14Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-22T14:02:33Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-22T14:02:54Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-22T14:04:19Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-22T14:06:00Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-22T14:06:20Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T14:12:13Z varjag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T14:12:29Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-22T14:22:19Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-22T14:24:38Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-22T14:26:18Z wol quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T14:28:36Z Davidbrcz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-22T14:30:03Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T14:32:52Z maxmaeteling joined #lisp
2017-01-22T14:35:40Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T14:36:00Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-22T14:38:42Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T14:44:45Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-22T14:47:10Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T14:54:28Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-22T15:06:40Z server_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T15:08:05Z EvW1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T15:08:15Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-22T15:08:49Z ioa joined #lisp
2017-01-22T15:14:26Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T15:19:28Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-22T15:22:24Z psacrifice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T15:30:27Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T15:35:42Z server_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-22T15:37:08Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T15:37:59Z handlex quit (Quit: handlex)
2017-01-22T15:39:12Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T15:39:28Z klltkr quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T15:43:36Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T15:49:21Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T15:49:29Z _main_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T15:49:44Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-22T15:50:23Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T15:51:25Z _main_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T15:51:51Z __main__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T15:52:25Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T15:53:43Z xristos quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2017-01-22T15:53:57Z xristos joined #lisp
2017-01-22T15:54:08Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-22T15:54:21Z xristos is now known as Guest64160
2017-01-22T15:54:35Z handlex quit (Quit: handlex)
2017-01-22T15:54:40Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-22T15:54:47Z Guest64160 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-22T15:55:51Z _main_ is now known as __main__
2017-01-22T16:00:15Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:01:29Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:01:34Z sirkmatija quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T16:01:43Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:02:02Z strelox quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T16:02:14Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:03:37Z xristos joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:05:45Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:07:48Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:08:01Z diogofranco: jackdaniel: What does this "consed" part of the "time" report work on ecl?
2017-01-22T16:08:32Z diogofranco: I understand it in other implementations, but in ecl, this seems to be an ever growing number
2017-01-22T16:09:24Z diogofranco: can one just subtract the bytes consed to the ones in previous command to get the bytes consed by a form?
2017-01-22T16:11:20Z jackdaniel: diogofranco: you talk about cl-bench?
2017-01-22T16:12:30Z diogofranco: nah the "time" command in ecl. sorry didn't explain very well. What does the number of "consed" bytes mean in ecl? Total nr of bytes allocated since the program started?
2017-01-22T16:13:09Z JuanDaugherty: the sources are unavailable?
2017-01-22T16:13:26Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:13:41Z jackdaniel: diogofranco: it returns bytes consed during from the start to the end of evaluation
2017-01-22T16:13:42Z klltkr: Anyone know the CCL equivalent of SBCL's (disable-debugger)?
2017-01-22T16:14:00Z klltkr: * (sb-ext:disable-debugger)
2017-01-22T16:14:21Z jackdaniel: klltkr: what is the expected result?
2017-01-22T16:14:35Z klltkr: jackdaniel, I want the program to exit on any error
2017-01-22T16:15:06Z jackdaniel: put (handler-case (my-form) (t () 'err)) as a top-level form
2017-01-22T16:15:13Z diogofranco: jackdaniel: the evaluation of that specific form wrapped in "time"? Because I never get a 0 output, even if that form doesn't do any consing
2017-01-22T16:15:26Z jackdaniel: diogofranco: let me see
2017-01-22T16:16:06Z diogofranco: > (time (progn)) -> real time : 0.000 secs run time  : 0.000 secs gc count  : 1 times consed    : 153476640 bytes
2017-01-22T16:16:20Z jackdaniel: do you have ecl 16.1.3 ?
2017-01-22T16:16:35Z diogofranco: this is still 15.3.7
2017-01-22T16:17:19Z jackdaniel: (time (progn)) returns 0 here
2017-01-22T16:17:26Z Xach finds it helpful also to disable ldb
2017-01-22T16:17:30Z jackdaniel: I mildly remember I was fixing gc-stats in the meantime
2017-01-22T16:17:40Z jackdaniel: (which time uses)
2017-01-22T16:17:50Z jackdaniel: between 16.1.2 and 16.1.3
2017-01-22T16:18:52Z diogofranco: oh I'll try the most recent one then (I have to use 15.3.7 for work, since it is what I have in production)
2017-01-22T16:20:26Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:20:48Z jackdaniel: I can find a specific commit so you may patch your production version
2017-01-22T16:21:08Z jackdaniel: what do you use ECL in production for? (curious :)
2017-01-22T16:22:42Z jackdaniel: diogofranco: its 2287b02b …
2017-01-22T16:23:28Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T16:23:41Z jackdaniel: I think that previously it indeed returned total bytes consed since the start
2017-01-22T16:24:01Z jackdaniel: (due to the bug)
2017-01-22T16:24:05Z diogofranco: jackdaniel: Thanks. We're a startup with many micro-services, and one of them I wanted to write in lisp, because it has to do with generating code, storing it, and then quickly running it later (its for user automation)
2017-01-22T16:24:24Z psacrifice joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:24:36Z diogofranco: I use ecl because this way we can re-use many c++ libs we already developed to interact with the rest of the stack
2017-01-22T16:24:40Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-22T16:24:49Z jackdaniel: ah
2017-01-22T16:25:14Z diogofranco: It was a test in the beggining, but it ecl never let us down :)
2017-01-22T16:26:05Z jackdaniel: have you seen EQL5? it can interact with QML – really cool stuff – created by Paul Ruetz
2017-01-22T16:26:42Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:27:08Z jackdaniel: good to hear that it works :)
2017-01-22T16:27:32Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-22T16:27:51Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:28:09Z diogofranco: Didn't dive deep yet, but heard about it. In our case we use lisp only server side, but it's good to know EQL5 exists :)
2017-01-22T16:28:56Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-22T16:29:21Z diogofranco: jackdaniel: How about you, do you work on ecl full time? How do you eat? ^^
2017-01-22T16:31:33Z jackdaniel: no, I have no money from ECL :) but succesful crowdfunding compaign on McCLIM and work on SICL was paying my bills till recently
2017-01-22T16:32:00Z jackdaniel: Lately I'm doing part time consultancy, so I don't have to depend on McCLIM (so all money can go for bounties :)
2017-01-22T16:32:33Z jackdaniel: right now I'm striving to write a submission for ELS (McCLIM demo)
2017-01-22T16:33:05Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:33:13Z klltkr: jackdaniel, cheers that dumps me out...how do I print a backtrace on the way out?
2017-01-22T16:33:31Z jackdaniel: klltkr: check out trivial-backtrace library
2017-01-22T16:33:48Z klltkr: jackdaniel, you are a gentleman and a scholar
2017-01-22T16:33:51Z jackdaniel: if you want full backtrace, use handler-bind not handler-case, because the latter eats the stack
2017-01-22T16:34:06Z jackdaniel: klltkr: what do you mean?
2017-01-22T16:34:33Z klltkr: It was a compliment
2017-01-22T16:34:38Z jackdaniel: ah, thanks :)
2017-01-22T16:35:18Z jackdaniel: ah, it's an idiom
2017-01-22T16:35:22Z jackdaniel: didn't know this one
2017-01-22T16:36:09Z klltkr: :)
2017-01-22T16:37:04Z diogofranco: I was work on SICL paying the bills? Does it have a company behind it? Thanks for all your work on ecl sir, it is appreciated.
2017-01-22T16:37:16Z diogofranco: How was*
2017-01-22T16:37:52Z jackdaniel: diogofranco: it was finansed by professor Robert Strandh
2017-01-22T16:37:59Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:38:21Z jackdaniel: it is possible, that ECL will ship Cleavir (SICL's compiler) as an alternative
2017-01-22T16:38:31Z jackdaniel: in the near future
2017-01-22T16:42:17Z handlex quit (Quit: handlex)
2017-01-22T16:42:50Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:46:02Z aene joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:46:41Z aene: /part
2017-01-22T16:46:46Z shka: one moment
2017-01-22T16:46:56Z shka: what exactly is Cleavier?
2017-01-22T16:46:56Z aene left #lisp
2017-01-22T16:47:11Z jackdaniel: Cleavir – one of SICL's modules
2017-01-22T16:47:14Z shka: how it can be used in ECL?
2017-01-22T16:47:31Z nugnuts joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:47:40Z shka: or could
2017-01-22T16:47:47Z shka: anyway, i thought that it is just compiler
2017-01-22T16:47:58Z shka: but somehow clasp is using it
2017-01-22T16:48:01Z jackdaniel: when you compile CL code, you have some text as input, in the middle you do some optimizations, and at the end you generate the code
2017-01-22T16:48:09Z shka: ok
2017-01-22T16:48:12Z shka: got that
2017-01-22T16:48:14Z jackdaniel: i.e native, or C code, or whatever
2017-01-22T16:48:22Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-22T16:48:36Z jackdaniel: so if you write a backend which generates the code matching ECL's inner structures, it may be used to compile for ECL
2017-01-22T16:48:56Z nugnuts quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-22T16:48:57Z jackdaniel: if it generates something, what LLVM understand – it may be used by LLVM
2017-01-22T16:48:58Z jackdaniel: etc
2017-01-22T16:49:18Z shka: oh
2017-01-22T16:49:22Z jackdaniel: for two-pass compilers it's a second pass
2017-01-22T16:49:24Z shka: ok
2017-01-22T16:49:30Z shka: right
2017-01-22T16:49:34Z shka: thanks
2017-01-22T16:49:36Z jackdaniel: sure
2017-01-22T16:53:22Z karswell` joined #lisp
2017-01-22T16:56:08Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-22T17:00:59Z karswell` is now known as karswell
2017-01-22T17:04:20Z defgeneric quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T17:05:18Z defgeneric joined #lisp
2017-01-22T17:06:40Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T17:08:21Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T17:08:28Z beach: shka: When jackdaniel has finished using Cleavir to write a compiler for ECL, there will be a total of 3 clients for Cleavir, which I think shows that the goal of making Cleavir an implementation-independent (or rather, implementation-customizable) compiler framework has been reached, at least partially.
2017-01-22T17:08:57Z foom joined #lisp
2017-01-22T17:09:22Z guicho quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T17:09:56Z Phoenix_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-22T17:09:58Z shka: beach: great, reusable software is awesome :-)
2017-01-22T17:10:36Z beach: Yes, and I think this is the first time for a reusable Common Lisp compiler framework.
2017-01-22T17:10:58Z beach: As far as I know, all the other Common Lisp compilers are implementation specific.
2017-01-22T17:18:55Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-22T17:22:37Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-22T17:23:43Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-22T17:24:21Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T17:24:21Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-22T17:24:29Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T17:33:21Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-22T17:34:39Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T17:35:52Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-22T17:36:00Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-22T17:38:16Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-22T17:40:00Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-22T17:43:32Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-22T17:47:33Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-22T17:50:10Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-22T17:50:25Z diogofranco: pretty cool stuff, these bootstrapped compilers of lisp, written in lisp, kinda blow my mind (I know that isn't lisp specific though)
2017-01-22T17:51:01Z pjb: Indeed.  Pascal compilers are written in Pascal. C compilers are written in C. etc.
2017-01-22T17:54:12Z beach: diogofranco: For some reason, many people think that Common Lisp is somehow special in the sense that a Common Lisp implementation (according to these people) could not be written in Common Lisp.
2017-01-22T17:55:11Z pjb: There are even Cobol compilers written in Cobol!
2017-01-22T17:56:03Z beach: I am sorry to hear that.
2017-01-22T17:57:05Z diogofranco: beach: do people really think that? Lisp is even famous for the eval function written in a few lines of lisp
2017-01-22T17:57:34Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-22T17:58:34Z beach: diogofranco: Well, I haven't interviewed very many.  But there is some evidence.  There are several implementations written in C or C++, but you would think that the creator of a Common Lisp system would prefer to program in Common Lisp.  The only explanation I can think of is that they didn't know that it is possible.
2017-01-22T17:58:41Z beach must go fix dinner. 
2017-01-22T17:58:59Z psacrifice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T18:04:19Z psacrifice joined #lisp
2017-01-22T18:04:53Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-22T18:05:32Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-22T18:06:14Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T18:06:14Z server_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-22T18:06:33Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T18:11:18Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-22T18:12:22Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-22T18:14:02Z maxmaeteling quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-22T18:14:33Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-22T18:14:38Z defaultxr: i have several :around methods and i'm hoping to run them in :most-specific-last order without any other change in behavior, but it looks like the 'standard' method-combination doesn't allow me to use the :most-specific-last argument to achieve this behavior. anyone have any suggestions? do i have to define my own method-combination in order to use most-specific-last without otherwise changing the combination behavior?
2017-01-22T18:17:28Z maxmaeteling joined #lisp
2017-01-22T18:18:06Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T18:19:45Z rumbler31: this probably sounds like a dumb question, and i'm not really sure how to ask it right, but is condition handling considered thread safe?
2017-01-22T18:22:44Z jackdaniel: rumbler31: it's not dumb. Yes, you may handle conditions in different threads safely (but if you can put some unsafe operations in the handler yourself of course)
2017-01-22T18:23:09Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-22T18:23:19Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-22T18:23:45Z jackdaniel: (that's of course empirical statement, Common Lisp doesn't have notion of threads)
2017-01-22T18:23:58Z rumbler31: right
2017-01-22T18:24:10Z rumbler31: thanks
2017-01-22T18:26:28Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-22T18:28:32Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-22T18:29:35Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-22T18:30:57Z pjb: defaultxr: use :before ?
2017-01-22T18:31:40Z defgeneric quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T18:33:24Z defgeneric joined #lisp
2017-01-22T18:35:07Z bocaneri quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-22T18:36:13Z rjeli_ is now known as rjeli
2017-01-22T18:36:46Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-22T18:38:24Z strelox quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T18:38:36Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-22T18:40:02Z defaultxr: pjb: i'm using call-next-method in both of my :around methods... using the :around methods to conditionally call the next method. unless i'm misunderstanding, switching to :before wouldn't allow me to use call-next-method?
2017-01-22T18:40:30Z pjb: indeed
2017-01-22T18:41:26Z pjb: it's very strange to be wanting the inner^W higher up in the hiearchy methods be called last.  You will have to implement definitely your own method-combination.
2017-01-22T18:42:02Z pjb: s/last/around/
2017-01-22T18:43:41Z aene joined #lisp
2017-01-22T18:48:11Z aene quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T18:49:54Z defgeneric quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-22T18:50:37Z defaultxr: doesn't seem that strange to me... seems like a good way to reduce code duplication if i can just write an :around method for each class and have the superclasses exit early if their conditions fail, rather than having to write the same checks inside every subclass. seems like a natural fit for oop-style programming? but maybe i'm misunderstanding the purpose of :around methods?
2017-01-22T18:51:10Z defgeneric joined #lisp
2017-01-22T18:51:51Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T18:53:15Z bocaneri quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-22T18:53:39Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T18:53:51Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-22T19:03:45Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-22T19:04:36Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2017-01-22T19:06:06Z rumbler31: I'm writing a program that juggles a few long running threads, and handles changes in state in each thread throughout its lifetime, I've never really done this before and I feel like my design is rather poorly hacked together.  I could use some good projects to reference
2017-01-22T19:12:43Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-22T19:12:51Z mrottenkolber: Hi
2017-01-22T19:14:24Z mrottenkolber: so 1e6 (1000000.0) is not an integer, is there a type that’s less pedantic? Or is my implementation at fault for evaluating 1e6 to a float?
2017-01-22T19:16:15Z beach: mrottenkolber: Numbers with exponent markers are necessarily floating-point numbers.
2017-01-22T19:16:27Z beach: mrottenkolber: There is no syntax for integers that allows exponent markers.
2017-01-22T19:17:44Z beach: mrottenkolber: But you can do #.(round 1e6).
2017-01-22T19:18:01Z beach: ... or #.(expt 10 6)
2017-01-22T19:19:55Z maxmaete` joined #lisp
2017-01-22T19:21:26Z gingerale- joined #lisp
2017-01-22T19:23:29Z maxmaeteling quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T19:23:31Z beach: defaultxr: The purpose of :AROUND methods is that the author of a subclass can take control, and do something more appropriate than the default, and if nothing better can be done, then delegate to the next most special method by calling (CALL-NEXT-METHOD).  For the purpose you seem to need, there is the PROGN method combination.
2017-01-22T19:23:43Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-22T19:24:06Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-22T19:26:56Z prhodes quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T19:27:13Z mrottenkolber: beach: I defaulted to just writing it out (1000000), I guess a future utility lib could (deftype rational-integer () '(satisfies rational-integer-p)) with (defun rational-integer-p (n) (= n (round n)))
2017-01-22T19:27:31Z mrottenkolber: or something of the like
2017-01-22T19:27:48Z mrottenkolber: like a type for integer in the math sense, not the type system sense
2017-01-22T19:28:02Z gingerale- is now known as gingerale
2017-01-22T19:28:14Z psacrifice quit
2017-01-22T19:29:33Z pjb: defaultxr: again, you could write a :before method.
2017-01-22T19:30:28Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T19:30:32Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T19:31:34Z klltkr quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T19:33:22Z zacts joined #lisp
2017-01-22T19:35:14Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2017-01-22T19:35:30Z pjb: mrottenkolber: you can trivially define a reader macro to read integers with exponents.
2017-01-22T19:35:35Z maxmaete` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T19:36:22Z pjb: #6e1 --> 1000000.  #23e1234 --> 123400000000000000000000000.  etc.
2017-01-22T19:36:51Z mrottenkolber: pjb: I was more looking for an existing idiom to typecheck for integers in the mathematical sense
2017-01-22T19:36:55Z defaultxr: i don't see how :before would do what i need to do, since i couldn't prevent the primary method from being run with the code i put in a :before. additionally, using the progn method combination prevents me from using :after, which i also need.
2017-01-22T19:37:02Z pjb: You can even swap them: #1e6 --> 1000000.  #1234e23 --> 123400000000000000000000000.
2017-01-22T19:37:21Z pjb: defaultxr: signal a condition!
2017-01-22T19:37:31Z pjb: defaultxr: any non-local exit will do.
2017-01-22T19:39:57Z pjb: mrottenkolber: (round 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0d0) #| --> 10000000000000000213204190094543968723012578712679649467743338496 ; 0.0D0 |#
2017-01-22T19:41:18Z mrottenkolber: pjb: good point
2017-01-22T19:41:58Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-22T19:42:51Z circ-user-jNagg quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T19:44:41Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T19:47:09Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T19:48:14Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T19:48:20Z flip214: ;; what every computer scientist should know about floating point numbers
2017-01-22T19:48:24Z flip214: or whatever the title actually was
2017-01-22T19:51:23Z rpg joined #lisp
2017-01-22T19:51:29Z rpg quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-22T19:51:42Z rpg joined #lisp
2017-01-22T19:52:35Z mcrist_ joined #lisp
2017-01-22T19:54:42Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-22T19:54:50Z TDT quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-22T19:56:52Z mattrepl joined #lisp
2017-01-22T20:03:42Z Petit_Dejeuner: flip214: close enough
2017-01-22T20:12:46Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-22T20:14:10Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T20:14:38Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-22T20:15:06Z Xof joined #lisp
2017-01-22T20:26:47Z mrottenkolber: so I have the situation where (lambda () (foo x) is 4x faster than (lambda () (apply 'foo (list x))), so far no surprise, but the thing is that 99% of the time should be spent in foo either way
2017-01-22T20:27:42Z mrottenkolber: (imagine foo to be a hot loop)
2017-01-22T20:28:08Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T20:28:52Z mrottenkolber: I am missing something :>
2017-01-22T20:30:02Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-22T20:30:21Z drmeister: Does anyone subclass standard-generic-function?   Is this a common thing?
2017-01-22T20:32:00Z jackdaniel: it is the only funcallable object which may be portably subclassed
2017-01-22T20:32:27Z jackdaniel: drmeister: ↑
2017-01-22T20:32:52Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-22T20:33:22Z drmeister: Thanks
2017-01-22T20:33:44Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-22T20:35:52Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-22T20:37:23Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-22T20:37:53Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-22T20:40:25Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-22T20:43:14Z PuercoPop: jackdaniel: What do you mean? The AMOP says that standard-class, standard-generic-function and standard-method can all be subclassed
2017-01-22T20:44:00Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T20:47:05Z jackdaniel: yes, but standard-generic-function is a subclass of funcallable-standard-object while the other two aren't I think
2017-01-22T20:47:27Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-22T20:47:32Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-22T20:47:47Z jackdaniel: so you may (funcall *instance-of-standard-generic-function-subclass*), but you can't (funcall *instance-of-standard-class*)
2017-01-22T20:50:50Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-22T20:53:57Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-22T20:55:59Z PuercoPop: jackdaniel: yes, but wasn't drmeister's question about subclassing instead of funcalling?
2017-01-22T20:56:59Z drmeister: I was curious if anyone ever subclassed standard-generic-function to implement their own kind of generic function.
2017-01-22T20:57:10Z jackdaniel: in my understanding he was curious whenever subclassing s-g-f has a valid use case
2017-01-22T21:00:07Z bumblehead joined #lisp
2017-01-22T21:00:15Z bumblehead left #lisp
2017-01-22T21:04:26Z rumbler31: if I have code structured such that (start-thread (long-thread..)) where (long-thread may (signal a condition, if my (start-thread call is wrapped in a handler-case or handler-bind, as soon as control in the original thread passes beyond the handler macros, are the condition handlers still in effect?  I'm still trying to figure out how to write this stuff
2017-01-22T21:06:48Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-22T21:08:16Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-22T21:09:28Z Xof quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-22T21:10:09Z rumbler31: or is it the case that handler functions are simply stored at the level they are created, so that any time later as the machinery walks back up the chain to find handlers to run that they'll just be there
2017-01-22T21:10:25Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-22T21:13:44Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-22T21:15:46Z jackdaniel: rumbler31: you need to install a handler in the thread
2017-01-22T21:15:58Z jackdaniel: try this: (handler-case (bt:make-thread (lambda () (sleep 3) (error "hi"))) (t () (print "handler")))
2017-01-22T21:16:02Z jackdaniel: error won't be cought
2017-01-22T21:16:05Z djuber joined #lisp
2017-01-22T21:17:06Z jackdaniel: on the other hand this is OK: (bt:make-thread (lambda ()  (handler-case (progn (sleep 3) (error "hi")) (t () (print "cought!")))))
2017-01-22T21:17:19Z jackdaniel: not that the *standard-output* probably will be bound to something else than slime-repl
2017-01-22T21:17:23Z jackdaniel is going to sleep
2017-01-22T21:17:24Z jackdaniel: gn o/
2017-01-22T21:17:28Z rumbler31: ahh..........
2017-01-22T21:17:38Z rumbler31: ty.......
2017-01-22T21:18:15Z jackdaniel: s/not/note/
2017-01-22T21:19:03Z PuercoPop: drmeister: I have some toy code where I do to add tags to generic-functions, but I haven't seen any 'real world' case
2017-01-22T21:19:29Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-22T21:19:36Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-22T21:21:37Z drmeister: I was asking because I'm confused by compute-discriminating-function and ECL's gf dispatch behavior - they seem at odds with each other.
2017-01-22T21:21:43Z TDT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T21:22:14Z drmeister: compute-discriminating-function says that it doesn't memoize gf calls and effective methods if compute-applicable-methods-using-classes returns nil as the second value.
2017-01-22T21:22:59Z Xof joined #lisp
2017-01-22T21:23:15Z drmeister: ECL (and Clasp) appear to (from reading the code and not tracing yet) memoize gf calls whether or not compute-applicable-methods-using-classes returns nil as the second value - as long as compute-applicable-methods returns something.
2017-01-22T21:23:47Z drmeister: There are all sorts of ways I could be getting confused - this is tricky stuff.
2017-01-22T21:24:08Z drmeister: I ask because I'm implementing a new gf dispatch algorithm and I'm a bit confused about what I can and cannot memoize.
2017-01-22T21:24:51Z drmeister: It appears, according to the MOP and compute-discriminating-function, that I can only memoize calls where compute-applicable-methods-using-classes returns T as the second value.
2017-01-22T21:25:13Z drmeister: So cases like...
2017-01-22T21:25:51Z drmeister:  (defgeneric foo (x))   (defmethod foo ((x (eql 'a))) ...) (defmethod foo ((x (eql 'b))) ...)
2017-01-22T21:26:02Z drmeister: (foo 'a)   (foo 'b) would not be memoized.
2017-01-22T21:28:18Z ioa left #lisp
2017-01-22T21:29:55Z jasom quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T21:32:48Z jmarciano left #lisp
2017-01-22T21:37:16Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-22T21:43:17Z prole quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-22T21:50:04Z Faed: is sourceforge still the canonical git host for sbcl?
2017-01-22T21:51:02Z scymtym: Faed: yes
2017-01-22T21:51:25Z Faed: :(
2017-01-22T21:52:37Z kodnin left #lisp
2017-01-22T21:52:45Z antoszka: that sucks somewhat
2017-01-22T21:53:11Z adolf_stalin quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T21:53:47Z Faed: aye
2017-01-22T21:54:13Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-22T21:54:35Z prxq: Faed: what is the problem? (I'm just curious)
2017-01-22T21:55:01Z Faed: sourceforge seems to have been acquired by a company that is kind of... unethical?
2017-01-22T21:55:37Z Faed: I downloaded the filezilla installer for windows from sourceforge, and it came with a bunch of crapware bloat not associated with the filezilla project.
2017-01-22T21:55:44Z Faed: so they altered the installer for a free project.
2017-01-22T21:56:03Z prxq: is that still so?
2017-01-22T21:56:39Z prxq: I remember the outrage, but my las filezilla installer was clean (don't remember where I had it from).
2017-01-22T21:56:40Z MrBusiness quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T21:56:42Z Faed: well, it's in the same hands.
2017-01-22T21:56:47Z prxq: I see
2017-01-22T21:56:57Z Faed: I stopped sourcing things at sourceforge.
2017-01-22T21:57:28Z Faed: and anyhow, github is a generally superior facility, so I'm a bit surprised.
2017-01-22T21:57:32Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-22T21:57:57Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T21:58:02Z jmarciano: how can I treat floating numbers as such in REPL, as 6378249.145 gives me 6378249.0
2017-01-22T21:59:14Z rpg: Faed: pretty sure there was no github -- and even no git -- when SBCL went to sourceforge.
2017-01-22T21:59:17Z Bike: probably not enough precision.
2017-01-22T21:59:28Z Bike: try 6378249.145d0.
2017-01-22T21:59:54Z jmarciano: like that?
2017-01-22T21:59:58Z prxq: jmarciano: that's a single float. The d0 in Bike's suggestion makes it a double float.
2017-01-22T22:00:16Z Faed: maybe not, but there's a http://www.github.com/sbcl/ presence now.
2017-01-22T22:00:30Z fe[nl]ix: Faed: when did the Filezilla incident occur ?
2017-01-22T22:00:35Z jmarciano: ok thanks
2017-01-22T22:01:00Z jmarciano: but why is it not automatic, calculations are then not correct
2017-01-22T22:01:03Z Faed: last year sometime
2017-01-22T22:01:42Z rpg: =-uij09
2017-01-22T22:02:14Z fe[nl]ix: Faed: because last year around november(IIRC) SF changed owner, and the new management purport to have ceased pushing adware
2017-01-22T22:02:16Z rpg: Faed: `/JHXZZ
2017-01-22T22:02:45Z prxq: jmarciano: calculations are correct up to single float precision.
2017-01-22T22:02:55Z prxq: same thing for doubles.
2017-01-22T22:03:10Z prxq: that doubles are not the default is a bummer, I agree.
2017-01-22T22:03:27Z jmarciano: is there way to set it default?
2017-01-22T22:04:01Z fe[nl]ix: Faed: actually that was in january :D https://meta.slashdot.org/story/16/01/29/0247219/slashdot-and-sourceforge-sold-now-under-new-management
2017-01-22T22:04:30Z prxq: yes, via the special variable *read-default-float-format*  http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/v_rd_def.htm
2017-01-22T22:04:50Z jmarciano: alright thanks
2017-01-22T22:05:14Z prxq: jmarciano: however, it's best to just get used to writing d0 or 1.0d-4 etc. Well, IMO.
2017-01-22T22:05:27Z Faed: I guess it was longer than 'last year'
2017-01-22T22:05:32Z Faed: I've been avoiding them since, though.
2017-01-22T22:06:16Z fe[nl]ix: Faed: nowadays SF seems good to me, if you can ignore the bad UI
2017-01-22T22:06:19Z jmarciano: prxq: what if I don't write d0 and get results which are single float, so it makes no sense.
2017-01-22T22:06:23Z prxq: yeah that cost them dearly. I think they stopped doing that long before the ownership change.
2017-01-22T22:07:15Z fe[nl]ix: prxq: AFAIK it's the new owners that decided to stop
2017-01-22T22:07:34Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2017-01-22T22:08:22Z prxq: jmarciano: if you write any real algorithm, you will be declaring things to be of a given float type so it's not that bad. I don't think it matters that much if you change the setting in your lisp's startup file.
2017-01-22T22:09:03Z jmarciano: it matters in calculcations of geographic coordinates.
2017-01-22T22:10:27Z PuercoPop: Faed: also it is not correct to say that github is a superior facility. They don't even offer the same services, ej sourceforge offers mailing lists
2017-01-22T22:10:31Z prxq: I meant to say, any negative effects of changing that setting are probably very minor.
2017-01-22T22:10:37Z rpg quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-22T22:11:05Z jmarciano: results are incorrect, this is first time I see that in a programming language
2017-01-22T22:11:38Z Faed: aren't the mailing lists at common-lisp.net?
2017-01-22T22:12:22Z prxq: jmarciano: I think you need to read up on floating point numbers.
2017-01-22T22:13:21Z PuercoPop: Faed: no
2017-01-22T22:13:58Z jmarciano: prxq: I am using it now precise
2017-01-22T22:15:19Z prxq: jmarciano: the default is single float, so it only uses 7-8 digits of precision. It's a bit unfortunate, but CL is otherwise very consistent and wise in what it does with numbers.
2017-01-22T22:16:41Z jmarciano: I am converting geodetic coordinates to cartesian, and even few meters incorrectly may cause problems.
2017-01-22T22:17:25Z pjb: In source code, you would have explicit literals in general (required by the significant digits your literals have), and you would only set *read-default-float-format* for user input (interactive or files) at run-time, to let the user write floating point values with 'e' instead of more specific exponent markers.
2017-01-22T22:18:17Z jmarciano: pjb: you mean calculation is correct but not shown as such?
2017-01-22T22:18:22Z pjb: The thing is that the user of the program don't care what implementation is used to compile your program; the precision he wants for the floating point values may need to be represented by different floating point numbers depending on the implementation used to compile the program.
2017-01-22T22:18:30Z prxq: jmarciano: ...what pjb says. Still, I agree that it sucks a little that double float wasn't set as the default.
2017-01-22T22:18:48Z knicklux quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-22T22:19:05Z pjb: don't assume that double-float gives you always a 56-bit mantissa.
2017-01-22T22:21:29Z prxq: i tend to assume it gives me 53 :-)
2017-01-22T22:22:15Z pjb: That said, yes, all current implementations on my system return (integer-length (integer-decode-float 1.0d0)) #| --> 53 |#
2017-01-22T22:22:29Z pierpa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T22:23:04Z prxq: that's the standard. It's hard to find chips nowadays that deviate from that.
2017-01-22T22:24:20Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T22:24:32Z pjb: You could use: (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :load-toplevel)  (setf *read-default-float-format* (car (find-if (lambda (x) (< 50 (integer-length (integer-decode-float (cdr x))))) '((short-float . 1.0s0) (single-float . 1.0f0) (double-float . 1.0d0) (long-float . 1.0l0))))))
2017-01-22T22:25:11Z pjb: and then use the 'e' exponent marker 1e0 in your sources, if you want to ensure at least 50 bits of significant digits.
2017-01-22T22:25:33Z pjb: prxq: it's not hard to find systems that don't have IEEE floating points too.
2017-01-22T22:26:31Z prxq: pjb: appart from MCUs, it's becomming quite rare
2017-01-22T22:27:37Z pjb: The big point here is that you should choose your floating point type in function of the precision you need, and not just choose blindly to use some type.
2017-01-22T22:28:24Z pillton: An implementation is free to implement one representation of floats.
2017-01-22T22:28:27Z pjb: and you can do that at compilation time.
2017-01-22T22:28:59Z prxq: Most of the time, especially when sitting in front of a PC, it makes little sense to choose anything else than double floats.
2017-01-22T22:29:40Z pjb: pillton: Correct, so http://paste.lisp.org/display/337210
2017-01-22T22:30:02Z pjb: prxq: most of the time you push your code to github with a free license.
2017-01-22T22:30:14Z pillton: pjb: I think you could just get away with the test being (<= 50 ...)
2017-01-22T22:30:16Z prxq: ?
2017-01-22T22:30:34Z pjb: whatever, it doesn't need to be 50 either.  It depends on your problem.
2017-01-22T22:30:44Z pjb: prxq: your code won't run on your PC!
2017-01-22T22:31:23Z prxq: it won't run on an mcu either :-)
2017-01-22T22:32:02Z prxq: anyway, good night.d0
2017-01-22T22:32:06Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T22:33:22Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T22:34:54Z defaultxr left #lisp
2017-01-22T22:35:14Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-22T22:36:11Z pillton: pjb: Someone should introduce a "float with minimum precision" type to alexandria.
2017-01-22T22:36:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-22T22:37:15Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-22T22:39:52Z Arathnim joined #lisp
2017-01-22T22:43:16Z pjb: pillton: take this paste and run!
2017-01-22T22:44:46Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-22T22:58:06Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-22T23:01:53Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-22T23:02:37Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T23:03:17Z rpg joined #lisp
2017-01-22T23:04:28Z rpg quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-22T23:04:31Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-22T23:07:50Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-22T23:08:53Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-22T23:08:53Z klltkr quit (Changing host)
2017-01-22T23:08:53Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-22T23:10:21Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-22T23:16:04Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-22T23:16:41Z Einwq quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-22T23:16:53Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-22T23:18:00Z SamSkulls joined #lisp
2017-01-22T23:19:09Z djuber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-22T23:20:12Z djuber joined #lisp
2017-01-22T23:20:31Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-22T23:24:54Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-22T23:25:39Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-22T23:27:47Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-22T23:28:08Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-22T23:38:04Z Younder joined #lisp
2017-01-22T23:39:40Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-22T23:40:21Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-22T23:43:28Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-22T23:45:08Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-22T23:52:26Z jasom joined #lisp
2017-01-22T23:54:22Z Younder quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T00:00:04Z fiddlerwoaroof: How can I prevent hunchentoot from trying to allocate enough memory for storing the whole request body?
2017-01-23T00:04:06Z fiddlerwoaroof: Using this code: http://paste.lisp.org/+7876
2017-01-23T00:04:37Z fiddlerwoaroof: When I try to upload 1G via curl, it seems to allocate a buffer behind the scenes to store the entire upload.
2017-01-23T00:05:05Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T00:05:25Z axion: H4ns will probably be able to give an answer
2017-01-23T00:06:10Z klltkr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T00:07:14Z fiddlerwoaroof: Thanks, I'll be driving for a bit, but I'll check back in an hour or so.
2017-01-23T00:07:37Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-23T00:08:46Z aeth quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T00:09:22Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T00:10:52Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-23T00:11:27Z aeth joined #lisp
2017-01-23T00:13:05Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T00:13:51Z rpg joined #lisp
2017-01-23T00:15:05Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T00:15:09Z rpg quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-23T00:19:24Z Xach: The answer may be: "there is no way to do that without rewriting"
2017-01-23T00:23:58Z groovy2shoes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T00:25:13Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-23T00:25:13Z klltkr quit (Changing host)
2017-01-23T00:25:13Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-23T00:27:18Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-23T00:28:58Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T00:32:09Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T00:33:41Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-23T00:40:28Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-23T00:54:48Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T00:55:17Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-23T00:55:50Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-23T00:56:40Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-23T00:58:54Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-23T01:00:54Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-23T01:04:27Z jleija_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T01:05:27Z jleija_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-23T01:05:28Z jleija quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T01:05:47Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-23T01:07:36Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2017-01-23T01:07:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-23T01:07:36Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2017-01-23T01:07:36Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-23T01:07:40Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T01:10:06Z djuber quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-23T01:11:16Z mathrick joined #lisp
2017-01-23T01:12:20Z strelox quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T01:13:42Z testing joined #lisp
2017-01-23T01:14:06Z testing is now known as Guest68764
2017-01-23T01:14:09Z fiddlerwoaroof: I suspect that may be the case, but I'm hoping I can just subclass request and/or accessor
2017-01-23T01:16:02Z Guest68764 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-23T01:21:11Z cromachina_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T01:23:40Z cromachina quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T01:24:24Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-23T01:26:11Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2017-01-23T01:32:47Z Josh_2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T01:34:58Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T01:44:26Z zacts joined #lisp
2017-01-23T01:46:23Z jmarciano quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-23T01:50:10Z SamSkulls quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T01:50:46Z mejja joined #lisp
2017-01-23T01:52:36Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-23T01:59:36Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2017-01-23T02:01:09Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T02:01:32Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T02:02:54Z MetaHert` quit (Quit: Всем пока! // Goodbye everyone!)
2017-01-23T02:03:14Z MetaHertz joined #lisp
2017-01-23T02:03:38Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-23T02:06:48Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-23T02:08:19Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T02:16:37Z mejja quit (Quit: \ No newline at end of file)
2017-01-23T02:20:33Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-23T02:20:45Z omilu quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-23T02:21:08Z cebreidian quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-23T02:21:40Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T02:22:30Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-23T02:26:58Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-23T02:30:17Z cebreidian joined #lisp
2017-01-23T02:31:10Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T02:45:02Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-23T02:45:50Z djuber joined #lisp
2017-01-23T02:54:22Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-23T03:00:51Z SAL9000 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T03:01:54Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-23T03:03:31Z nrp3c quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-23T03:03:51Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T03:07:49Z SAL9000 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T03:10:36Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-23T03:27:47Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-23T03:33:51Z nelder quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T03:36:25Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T03:37:36Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-23T03:37:40Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T03:42:35Z cebreidian quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T03:42:48Z mattrepl quit (Quit: mattrepl)
2017-01-23T03:42:58Z omilu quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T03:45:00Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-23T03:46:32Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T03:46:38Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T03:47:34Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-23T03:49:09Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-23T03:49:50Z pyx joined #lisp
2017-01-23T03:51:02Z pyx quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-23T03:52:55Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-23T03:54:48Z omilu quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-23T03:59:04Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T04:05:18Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T04:06:43Z smokeink joined #lisp
2017-01-23T04:12:20Z space_otter joined #lisp
2017-01-23T04:12:29Z creat quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.4 - http://znc.in)
2017-01-23T04:12:45Z creat joined #lisp
2017-01-23T04:15:23Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-23T04:16:17Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-23T04:19:58Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-23T04:21:27Z groovy2shoes joined #lisp
2017-01-23T04:22:27Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-23T04:24:31Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp
2017-01-23T04:29:28Z djuber quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-23T04:33:21Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-23T04:34:16Z travv0 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-23T04:34:26Z Guest3142 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T04:35:00Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T04:35:19Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-23T04:37:03Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-23T04:38:20Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-23T04:39:04Z omilu quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T04:45:04Z cebreidian joined #lisp
2017-01-23T04:45:19Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-23T04:48:01Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-23T04:49:10Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-23T04:49:45Z impulse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T04:49:58Z impulse joined #lisp
2017-01-23T04:51:05Z arescorpio quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T04:55:37Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-23T04:56:47Z Guest3142: mornin
2017-01-23T05:00:20Z cebreidian quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T05:00:26Z omilu quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-23T05:01:32Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2017-01-23T05:02:34Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-23T05:03:49Z defgeneric quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T05:05:49Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T05:06:40Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-23T05:09:02Z cebreidian joined #lisp
2017-01-23T05:09:28Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-23T05:11:28Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T05:11:52Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-23T05:13:28Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-23T05:14:24Z cebreidian quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-23T05:15:04Z omilu quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T05:20:44Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-23T05:23:46Z bigos quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-23T05:23:48Z jsnell_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T05:24:43Z jsnell quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-23T05:26:02Z omilu quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T05:28:00Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T05:31:33Z cebreidian joined #lisp
2017-01-23T05:31:52Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T05:31:55Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-23T05:42:40Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-23T05:57:20Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-23T06:05:14Z Guest3142 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-23T06:05:31Z holycow joined #lisp
2017-01-23T06:05:43Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-23T06:05:55Z holycow is now known as Guest8662
2017-01-23T06:06:09Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-23T06:06:10Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-23T06:08:10Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-23T06:11:19Z heurist__ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T06:12:40Z heurist`_` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-23T06:15:22Z Guest8662 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T06:17:06Z holycow_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T06:22:20Z Arathnim quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T06:23:55Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T06:24:33Z flip214: fiddlerwoaroof: you can get the stream via (send-headers); not sure whether the post data is already processed before that, though.
2017-01-23T06:24:44Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-23T06:27:13Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T06:27:59Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-23T06:34:41Z williamyaoh joined #lisp
2017-01-23T06:37:58Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T06:38:39Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T06:39:29Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-23T06:44:00Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-23T06:44:18Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-23T06:50:23Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T06:57:41Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-23T06:57:41Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-23T06:57:41Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-23T07:03:01Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-23T07:06:58Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-23T07:07:09Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T07:10:14Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-23T07:19:49Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-23T07:21:50Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-23T07:26:27Z xantoz: {
2017-01-23T07:26:32Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-23T07:26:37Z xantoz: oops, i meant (
2017-01-23T07:27:00Z holycow_ hands santos a )
2017-01-23T07:28:56Z White_Flame gets an iron for that first kinked ( that was accidentally posted
2017-01-23T07:29:06Z holycow_: haha!
2017-01-23T07:37:13Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-23T07:41:03Z aindilis2 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T07:41:52Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-23T07:42:08Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-23T07:44:20Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-23T07:49:39Z williamyaoh: I feel like I type ASDF far more than I should, considering the keys are right next to each other...
2017-01-23T07:49:43Z williamyaoh: typo
2017-01-23T07:57:38Z mcrist_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-23T08:01:58Z salva joined #lisp
2017-01-23T08:05:33Z xaotuk joined #lisp
2017-01-23T08:08:50Z d4ryus1 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T08:11:50Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-23T08:16:25Z itruslove quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T08:18:15Z Bike quit (Quit: you know)
2017-01-23T08:19:38Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-23T08:23:00Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T08:25:09Z Guest35314 quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2017-01-23T08:26:26Z o1e9 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T08:28:53Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-23T08:28:54Z tephra_ is now known as tephra
2017-01-23T08:30:43Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-23T08:30:58Z xaotuk quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T08:31:21Z itruslove joined #lisp
2017-01-23T08:33:18Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-23T08:33:51Z giraffe joined #lisp
2017-01-23T08:34:14Z giraffe is now known as Guest54596
2017-01-23T08:37:19Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-23T08:38:04Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-23T08:38:06Z reverse_light joined #lisp
2017-01-23T08:39:55Z agspathis joined #lisp
2017-01-23T08:40:40Z agspathis quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-23T08:44:19Z wz1000 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2017-01-23T08:49:32Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-23T08:53:49Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-23T08:56:46Z midre quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-23T09:00:20Z reverse_light quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-23T09:01:23Z reverse_light joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:01:23Z reverse_light quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-23T09:01:57Z reverse_light joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:06:54Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T09:08:46Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-23T09:09:03Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:09:09Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:11:20Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T09:13:09Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:15:07Z beach: This is the latest version of the paper on the SICL sequence functions: http://metamodular.com/sequence-functions.pdf
2017-01-23T09:15:09Z beach: Remarks are welcome (section 6 needs to be filled in).  If you have remarks, and if you would like to be cited in that section, please tell me how you would want your name to appear.
2017-01-23T09:20:54Z midre joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:21:17Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:23:24Z araujo quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2017-01-23T09:25:16Z Einwq joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:27:04Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-23T09:28:08Z midre quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-23T09:33:54Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:36:04Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:36:41Z mishoo quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2017-01-23T09:37:53Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:37:53Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2017-01-23T09:37:53Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:40:30Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:45:06Z |3b|: beach: "...of the SICL project5" has an extra 5, also indentation of code in appendix A seems wrong
2017-01-23T09:45:26Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:46:07Z midre joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:51:10Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T09:51:16Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T09:53:09Z mishoo quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2017-01-23T09:53:42Z beach: Thanks!
2017-01-23T09:54:03Z |3b|: beach: i'm also curious how many duplicates of the main body actually end up being generated in practice, which i didn't see mentioned anywhere
2017-01-23T09:54:20Z beach: Thousands.
2017-01-23T09:54:35Z beach: An inline limit of 1000 was not enough.
2017-01-23T09:56:40Z |3b| was guessing it would be fairly large, but "inline limit" doesn't really translate to a meaningful number for me (no idea how many it is counting per duplicate for example, assuming it is even 1:1)
2017-01-23T09:56:53Z |3b|: i guess it might provide an upper bound though
2017-01-23T09:58:26Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-23T10:00:18Z beach: Well, the function APPLY-KEY-FUNCTION is called exactly once per loop body.
2017-01-23T10:00:27Z beach: And that's the one that is inlined.
2017-01-23T10:01:10Z beach: So I think there is an exact correspondence between the number of inlines and the number of duplicate bodies.
2017-01-23T10:01:29Z |3b|: no implementation functions being inlined?
2017-01-23T10:01:52Z beach: "implementation functions"?
2017-01-23T10:02:12Z |3b|: functions defined by the implementation, CAR or EQL or whatever
2017-01-23T10:02:16Z beach: Ah, no.
2017-01-23T10:02:28Z beach: But that's a good point.  We should probably do that.
2017-01-23T10:02:49Z beach: I am guessing they would be inlined anyway, which is why I didn't bother.
2017-01-23T10:03:37Z |3b|: right, i was assuming so also, which is why i wondered if they were counted
2017-01-23T10:03:51Z krasnal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T10:03:56Z beach: Yes, good question.  I don't know.
2017-01-23T10:04:16Z beach: I guess I could count the number of duplicate loop bodies.  That would answer your question precisely.
2017-01-23T10:05:12Z beach: It is basically the product of the duplication of each macro, so it depends on things like how many different specialized vector types the implementation has.
2017-01-23T10:06:16Z |3b|: yeah, that's what makes it hard to have any intuition beyond "large" for the value without a lot of thinking (and spec reading)
2017-01-23T10:06:32Z |3b|: so if it could be trivially measured, it would be nice info to have
2017-01-23T10:06:52Z beach: I'll see what I can do.
2017-01-23T10:06:59Z beach: Thanks again!
2017-01-23T10:07:37Z beach: I am pretty proud of the result, especially since this is the third time I contemplate how to implement the sequence functions.  I think this time I found the right way.
2017-01-23T10:08:02Z beach: I am hoping the referees see it that way too. :)
2017-01-23T10:08:14Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T10:08:26Z |3b|: yeah, seems a lot nicer than whatever version was in SICL last time i was using it :)
2017-01-23T10:09:34Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-23T10:10:38Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-23T10:10:39Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T10:10:39Z attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai
2017-01-23T10:10:44Z beach: Definitely! :)
2017-01-23T10:10:45Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-23T10:10:45Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-23T10:11:24Z |3b|: also nicer than the manual equivalent i've done a few times, something like (macrolet ((body ...)) (typecase x (foo (body)) (bar (body)) ...))
2017-01-23T10:11:52Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-23T10:14:39Z beach: Yes, I agree.
2017-01-23T10:14:55Z jibanes quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T10:15:38Z z3r0_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-23T10:16:48Z jibanes joined #lisp
2017-01-23T10:19:09Z beach: GAH, now the code layout needs to be improved.  This two-column format is a bit of a pain for code.
2017-01-23T10:19:39Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T10:21:56Z pjb: beach: when will sbcl integrate the optimizations you demonstrate in your sequence paper?
2017-01-23T10:23:21Z holycow_ quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2017-01-23T10:23:32Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T10:23:45Z mvilleneuve left #lisp
2017-01-23T10:23:49Z beach: pjb: I don't expect it to do that at all.
2017-01-23T10:23:55Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-23T10:24:37Z pjb: Why not? It seems to be a no-brainer, any implementation would jump on the opportunity to improve performance, no?
2017-01-23T10:26:27Z pjb: The color of the sicl data in the graphs is hardly visible.  It should be darker.
2017-01-23T10:26:41Z beach: Maybe.  I haven't checked with any SBCL maintainer.  Since there is basically nobody in charge, maintainers choose what they like to work on.
2017-01-23T10:26:50Z beach: Ah, good point.
2017-01-23T10:28:41Z beach: I need to ask my co-author to fix that. :)  She is in charge of the graphs.
2017-01-23T10:29:35Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-23T10:29:39Z pjb: For bit-vectors there are other optimization technique where the data is processed word by word instead of bit-by-bit.  Baker has a paper on it. http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=121991&dl=ACM&coll=DL&CFID=719811683&CFTOKEN=34164566
2017-01-23T10:30:05Z beach: Oh, good to know.  I'll include it in the bibliography.
2017-01-23T10:30:15Z pjb: http://www.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/BitSearch.html
2017-01-23T10:30:29Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-23T10:31:52Z SamSkulls joined #lisp
2017-01-23T10:33:31Z scymtym: beach: i only had time to skim through the paper and didn't immediately see anything regarding user-extensible sequences. support for those is not required for vanilla CL, of course, but for integration into SBCL (and ABCL, iirc) it would be an important aspect
2017-01-23T10:34:15Z beach: True.  I also think it is trivial, though.
2017-01-23T10:34:30Z pjb: beach: you didn't mention the increase in size of the object code (I assume it would exist for the duplication of code by the macro).  Didn't you measure it, or am I wrong?
2017-01-23T10:34:45Z beach: scymtym: Make a top-level test for the type.  If it is not CONS or VECTOR, then call the generic function.
2017-01-23T10:35:10Z beach: pjb: It's because I don't care that much. :)  But you are right, it should be included.
2017-01-23T10:35:13Z pjb: (It'd be funny if sbcl being already the fastest and largest  implementation would become even faster, and even larger.
2017-01-23T10:35:17Z pjb: )
2017-01-23T10:35:32Z scymtym: beach: yes, it should suffice to check for type SEQUENCE instead of signaling a type-error and invoke the generic protocol as appropriate
2017-01-23T10:35:49Z beach: Yes, the technique in the paper is not for the people who still think that memory is expensive.
2017-01-23T10:36:11Z beach: scymtym: Yes, exactly.
2017-01-23T10:36:29Z scymtym: beach: we still had some issues for functions like MAP and CONCATENATE, though
2017-01-23T10:38:33Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-23T10:39:34Z pjb: beach: The technique could still be applied with bit-vectors (and possibly other variants, like processing octet-vectors word-by-word), by abstracting the loop, with an iterator macro that could generate similarly code specialized to by-element access or by-stride access.
2017-01-23T10:41:39Z beach: pjb: Sounds like a followup paper to me. :)
2017-01-23T10:41:45Z beach: pjb: Maybe you should write it.
2017-01-23T10:41:46Z pjb: yes.
2017-01-23T10:42:27Z beach: scymtym: Yes, I should point out that we do not consider EVERY sequence function in this paper.
2017-01-23T10:42:42Z ioa1 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T10:42:46Z ioa1 left #lisp
2017-01-23T10:44:40Z pjb: beach: the indentation of the code is botched :-( Perhaps using a smaller font would help maintaining it?
2017-01-23T10:45:06Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T10:46:04Z pjb: In an actual implementation, it would be useful to test functions both by name and by value: (or (eq ,key-function-var #'car) (eq ,key-function-var 'car)).
2017-01-23T10:46:17Z beach: Indentation should be fixed now, but it is way to wide for the column.
2017-01-23T10:46:21Z phoe__ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T10:46:40Z beach: We normalize that before calling the main function.
2017-01-23T10:46:51Z pjb: ok
2017-01-23T10:46:52Z beach: "canonicalize", rather.
2017-01-23T10:47:43Z beach: I'll explain that if the referees complain.  We have only 1 page to go to the limit for submissions.
2017-01-23T10:51:10Z pjb: That's all.  Nice paper.
2017-01-23T10:51:37Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T10:53:28Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-23T10:54:57Z beach: Thanks!
2017-01-23T10:56:52Z newcup joined #lisp
2017-01-23T10:57:01Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-23T10:59:45Z aje quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-23T11:00:36Z aje joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:01:21Z flip214: beach: would you like an errata per mail or in IRC? as text or as annotated PDF?
2017-01-23T11:01:34Z flip214: or is it too late for that already?
2017-01-23T11:01:47Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-23T11:01:52Z beach: Not too late.  You still have a week at least. :)
2017-01-23T11:02:05Z beach: Any text is fine.   Here or by email.
2017-01-23T11:02:51Z beach: I might not process your remarks right away, but I have the logs, so that's fine.
2017-01-23T11:02:55Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:04:25Z hlavaty joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:04:45Z flip214: beach: you'll get an email.
2017-01-23T11:04:49Z williamyaoh quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-23T11:05:03Z hlavaty left #lisp
2017-01-23T11:05:57Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:06:40Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T11:07:14Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T11:07:42Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T11:07:43Z beach: Great, thanks!
2017-01-23T11:13:08Z flip214: you're welcome.
2017-01-23T11:13:22Z flip214: I like to read (some) technical docs... expanding the horizon, and so on.
2017-01-23T11:18:08Z DeadTrickster__ is now known as DeadTrickster
2017-01-23T11:22:06Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T11:23:30Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:23:47Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:25:36Z mishoo quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2017-01-23T11:26:27Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-23T11:28:12Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:29:01Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:33:15Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:33:38Z beach: flip214: Good, that's the basis for all research. :)
2017-01-23T11:33:59Z flip214: if only there was time...
2017-01-23T11:34:03Z beach: flip214: I haven't received anything yet.  Is that normal?
2017-01-23T11:34:19Z beach: Yes, time is always a problem.
2017-01-23T11:35:36Z beach: Then there are authors that don't bother explaining what they do, and instead hide behind incomprehensible explanations and too much theory and math.
2017-01-23T11:35:49Z beach: I don't have so much patience with that anymore.
2017-01-23T11:36:34Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:37:30Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-23T11:38:30Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:39:00Z freehck joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:43:34Z flip214: beach: sorry, still writing the email.
2017-01-23T11:43:38Z flip214: got longer than anticipated ;/
2017-01-23T11:47:39Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:48:31Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T11:48:44Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:52:00Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:54:44Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:55:25Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T11:56:47Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-23T11:57:00Z flip214: beach: sent now. sorry, exact reading takes some time... and typing isn't instanteneous for me, too.
2017-01-23T11:57:46Z flip214: beach: got it?
2017-01-23T11:58:25Z pjb: lunch time.
2017-01-23T11:58:57Z flip214: well, "Mahlzeit" then ;)
2017-01-23T11:59:10Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-23T11:59:38Z beach: flip214: Got it, thanks!
2017-01-23T11:59:56Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-23T12:01:04Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-23T12:01:21Z beach: I'll process it later this afternoon, or tomorrow.
2017-01-23T12:02:48Z flip214: beach: I already read your paper, so it won't help me anyway ;)
2017-01-23T12:03:02Z flip214: thank you... and please try to get it upstream.
2017-01-23T12:04:18Z phoe__: beach: there's some news waiting for you on query.
2017-01-23T12:06:56Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-23T12:09:49Z cpt_nemo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-23T12:10:35Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-23T12:18:12Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-23T12:29:55Z scottj quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-23T12:32:34Z jameser_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T12:33:18Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-23T12:34:34Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-23T12:35:19Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T12:36:17Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-23T12:37:10Z schjetne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T12:38:11Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-23T12:39:27Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T12:39:47Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-23T12:39:58Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-23T12:40:33Z jameser_ quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-23T12:42:52Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-23T12:43:05Z N3vYn^tmp joined #lisp
2017-01-23T12:43:07Z ak5 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-23T12:43:33Z N3vYn^tmp left #lisp
2017-01-23T12:45:10Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-23T12:45:26Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-23T12:47:17Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-23T12:47:17Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Changing host)
2017-01-23T12:47:17Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-23T12:51:50Z froggey joined #lisp
2017-01-23T12:56:31Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T12:57:50Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-23T13:01:20Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-23T13:03:35Z cpt_nemo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T13:04:09Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T13:06:17Z mattrepl joined #lisp
2017-01-23T13:07:08Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-23T13:08:32Z z3r0_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T13:12:10Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T13:12:34Z mathrick joined #lisp
2017-01-23T13:13:17Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-23T13:13:18Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-23T13:15:19Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T13:16:42Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-23T13:20:52Z beach: flip214: I started merging your corrections.  Haven't finished though.
2017-01-23T13:22:15Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-23T13:22:27Z flip214: beach: no hurry.
2017-01-23T13:23:01Z flip214: although I'd appreciate if you told me whether I'm on the right track or not... too verbose, not enough explanations, ... ?
2017-01-23T13:23:32Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-23T13:25:26Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-23T13:30:42Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-23T13:30:43Z bigos quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T13:36:08Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-23T13:38:15Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-23T13:46:25Z reverse_light quit (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
2017-01-23T13:50:30Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T13:52:16Z reverse_light joined #lisp
2017-01-23T13:59:02Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T14:04:13Z klltkr quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T14:16:11Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-23T14:17:12Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T14:18:45Z strelox quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T14:21:48Z LiamH1 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T14:25:20Z cromachina_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T14:33:02Z zeissoctopus joined #lisp
2017-01-23T14:35:18Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T14:36:38Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T14:41:24Z nowhere_man quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T14:41:37Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-23T14:42:07Z askatasuna quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.3 - http://znc.in)
2017-01-23T14:45:16Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T14:45:58Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-23T14:46:21Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-23T14:46:40Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T14:46:59Z zeissoctopus quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T14:47:31Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-23T14:49:31Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-23T14:50:32Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-23T14:52:21Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T14:55:25Z beach: flip214: You are definitely on the right track.  Easy to understand, pertinent, etc.
2017-01-23T14:56:01Z flip214: thank you very much!
2017-01-23T14:56:15Z flip214: If you are satisfied with my services, why not book me in the future, too?
2017-01-23T14:56:18Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2017-01-23T14:56:55Z flip214: short & interesting I do for free.
2017-01-23T14:59:17Z Einwq quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T14:59:36Z beach: I will definitely take you up on that.
2017-01-23T15:00:33Z beach: There are two more papers for ELS that I would like to submit.  The deadline is Monday next week, but there is traditionally an extension.
2017-01-23T15:02:17Z flip214: might be better to send me a link via email, then.
2017-01-23T15:02:27Z flip214: oh, and you're welcome!
2017-01-23T15:02:35Z beach: Better than giving the link here?
2017-01-23T15:03:22Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T15:04:43Z flip214: I'll notice it sooner, typically, and it won't get lost in case our IRC gateway gets rebooted for some kernel upgrade and similar things.
2017-01-23T15:04:55Z beach: Got it.
2017-01-23T15:11:37Z BigSafari quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-23T15:12:05Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-23T15:12:25Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T15:14:02Z malice` joined #lisp
2017-01-23T15:14:13Z jmarciano: I know how to convert n² to lisp or n³ or expressed as n^2 or n^3 sometimes. But what it means when I see instead of 2 or 3 there, a 0.5 in mathematical formula? How to apply such?
2017-01-23T15:14:30Z jmarciano: like n^0.5
2017-01-23T15:14:48Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T15:14:53Z malice`: (expt n 1/2) ?
2017-01-23T15:15:02Z dlowe: (expt n 0.5)?
2017-01-23T15:15:24Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-23T15:17:03Z flip214: (exp (* 0.5 (log n)))?
2017-01-23T15:17:50Z jmarciano: aha is it?
2017-01-23T15:18:43Z jmarciano: well thanks
2017-01-23T15:18:49Z malice`: ,clhs expt
2017-01-23T15:18:54Z malice`: :(
2017-01-23T15:19:00Z beach: clhs expt
2017-01-23T15:19:00Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_exp_e.htm
2017-01-23T15:19:57Z beach: jmarciano: One more remark about your floating-point problem, because you were still acting as if the calculation was somehow incorrect the other day.  Try (+ 0.6 0.3) at the REPL and contemplate the result.
2017-01-23T15:21:01Z malice`: Listen to the Master Foo :)
2017-01-23T15:21:12Z jmarciano: beach: that looks interesting
2017-01-23T15:21:19Z jmarciano: 0.90000004
2017-01-23T15:21:24Z beach: jmarciano: Since computers (usually) don't represent floating-point number in decimal notation, neither 0.6 nor 0.3 have exact representations in the computer.
2017-01-23T15:21:57Z beach: So even before any calculation is made, each argument to + is an approximation of the decimal value.
2017-01-23T15:22:24Z jmarciano: however, in large numbers, like sphere of the earth and geodetic calculations, which I am implementing, if I am missing precision, the point on the map is showing incorrectly. I tested it, and it was incorrect (rounded)
2017-01-23T15:22:39Z malice`: jmarciano: you have doubles
2017-01-23T15:22:41Z malice`: 0.0d0
2017-01-23T15:22:46Z malice`: or you can use external library
2017-01-23T15:22:55Z malice`: 0.0 is of SINGLE-FLOAT type
2017-01-23T15:23:20Z jmarciano: it's hard to me to understand why programming language has that problem
2017-01-23T15:23:23Z beach: jmarciano: If you can't live with the limited precision of the floating-point numbers of your processor (and your Common Lisp system) you need to use rationals.
2017-01-23T15:23:44Z beach: jmarciano: I am telling you, it is not the programming language.
2017-01-23T15:23:45Z flip214: or define some required precision, and use scaled-up integers.
2017-01-23T15:23:47Z beach: It is the processor.
2017-01-23T15:23:48Z malice`: jmarciano: https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19957-01/806-3568/ncg_goldberg.html
2017-01-23T15:23:54Z malice`: read this
2017-01-23T15:24:30Z malice`: and as beach said, it's not the problem with specific programming language but representation of digits in general
2017-01-23T15:24:38Z jmarciano: I will read that right now. Anyway, Perl language is giving correct 0.9 as result.
2017-01-23T15:24:50Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-23T15:24:58Z flip214: jmarciano: no, it's only printing a ROUNDED result.
2017-01-23T15:24:59Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-23T15:25:07Z beach: jmarciano: Usually, when that happens, it is because they only print the value with limited precision.
2017-01-23T15:25:37Z jmarciano: yes I get that concept.
2017-01-23T15:25:56Z malice`: jmarciano: actually, Lisp allows you to have a bit more precision sometimes, at the cost of speed
2017-01-23T15:26:03Z beach: jmarciano: You can hardly blame Common Lisp for using better precision when printing floating point numbers than what Perl does.
2017-01-23T15:26:43Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2017-01-23T15:26:57Z malice`: You have fractions built-in. You can use them
2017-01-23T15:27:08Z malice`: jmarciano: try this: (coerce (+ 6/10 3/10) 'single-float)
2017-01-23T15:27:19Z malice`: coerce changes type of output, and you add fractions.
2017-01-23T15:27:57Z smokeink quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-23T15:28:45Z malice`: I've chuckled when I saw an excercise to show the limited precision of certain numbers, where the excercise wanted you to sum some fractions, first from 1 upto some value, then from value downto 1. The excercise would have worked well(give different results), but CL has fractions
2017-01-23T15:29:03Z phoe__: malice`: :D
2017-01-23T15:29:09Z malice`: and #'/ returns fractions when it can, so you actually got correct result both times, unless specifically passing single-float as an argment to #'/, effectively "coercing". :)
2017-01-23T15:30:09Z beach: What does Perl come up with for 0.9 - (0.3 + 0.6)?  I don't know how to run Perl, so can someone check?
2017-01-23T15:31:08Z beach: But perhaps Perl uses decimal representation internally?
2017-01-23T15:31:44Z travv0: 1.11022302462516e-16
2017-01-23T15:31:50Z malice`: :D
2017-01-23T15:31:53Z beach: Thanks!
2017-01-23T15:31:59Z travv0: no prob
2017-01-23T15:32:05Z beach: jmarciano: Explain that result.
2017-01-23T15:32:05Z dlowe: very small values of zero
2017-01-23T15:33:00Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T15:33:14Z beach: jmarciano: For your information, SBCL does this: (- 0.9d0 (+ 0.6d0 0.3d0)) => 1.1102230246251565d-16
2017-01-23T15:33:28Z beach: Looks familiar?
2017-01-23T15:34:04Z beach: jmarciano: I think this little experiment shows that Perls uses double-precision IEEE floats just like SBCL does for double-float.
2017-01-23T15:34:51Z jmarciano quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-23T15:35:42Z beach: Ah, too hard to digest, I see.
2017-01-23T15:35:44Z beach: :)
2017-01-23T15:36:06Z travv0: Some people can't handle the truth
2017-01-23T15:36:33Z beach: Right, but I am willing to give jmarciano the benefit of the doubt.
2017-01-23T15:37:35Z proclus joined #lisp
2017-01-23T15:42:05Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-23T15:42:06Z iamblichus joined #lisp
2017-01-23T15:43:10Z opt9 quit (Quit: Bye bye)
2017-01-23T15:43:23Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T15:44:41Z opt9 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T15:45:13Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-23T15:47:26Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-23T15:47:46Z flamebeard_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T15:47:48Z beach: jmarciano: Ah, you are back!  You missed my little experiment with Perl.
2017-01-23T15:50:35Z flamebeard quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T15:53:35Z flamebeard_ is now known as flamebeard
2017-01-23T15:57:35Z jmarciano quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-23T15:58:48Z o1e9 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-23T15:59:05Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:03:23Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:06:50Z malice`: Is mapc an oversight? Is there some particular reason why (MAPC ...) =/= (map nil ...) ?
2017-01-23T16:07:17Z beach: Doesn't mapc work only on lists, and map on sequences?
2017-01-23T16:07:44Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:07:49Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:08:46Z malice`: yes
2017-01-23T16:08:48Z beach: I am guessing that the sequence functions came in at a later stage, but they kept the existing list functions for backward compatibility.
2017-01-23T16:09:58Z malice`: I mean, mapcar kind of makes sense
2017-01-23T16:10:15Z malice`: but mapc would be more useful when extended over all sequences
2017-01-23T16:10:36Z dlowe: (map nil ...) is analogous to mapc
2017-01-23T16:10:42Z malice`: it's not
2017-01-23T16:10:46Z malice`: mapc works only on lists
2017-01-23T16:10:50Z malice`: map nil works on sequences
2017-01-23T16:11:09Z dlowe: ... look up "analogous"
2017-01-23T16:11:41Z malice`: well, that I knew. Yes, they behave similarly, but accept different sequences.
2017-01-23T16:12:00Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-23T16:12:22Z _death: mapc returns the first input list
2017-01-23T16:13:08Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T16:14:08Z malice`: wow
2017-01-23T16:14:21Z malice`: that looks like it's true. Why was I thinking it behaved like (map nil)?
2017-01-23T16:14:28Z malice`: did I confuse it with other variant of MAP?
2017-01-23T16:14:38Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-23T16:15:35Z dlowe: I would think hate daggers at someone who used the return value of mapc, regardless.
2017-01-23T16:15:56Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:18:19Z travv0: It looks like all map variants return something.
2017-01-23T16:18:43Z beach: Most Common Lisp expressions do. :)
2017-01-23T16:19:25Z nowhere_man quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T16:19:31Z travv0: *Return a non-nil value
2017-01-23T16:19:41Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-23T16:19:43Z beach: Ah, OK. :)
2017-01-23T16:22:08Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T16:22:57Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T16:24:28Z _death: map nil => nil..
2017-01-23T16:24:41Z Sigyn quit (Quit: Can we drop the ‘artificial intelligence’? It’s a bit like me calling you a meat-based processing system.)
2017-01-23T16:25:13Z travv0: By map variants I meant the ones that weren't map, since I assume that's what malice` was referring to
2017-01-23T16:25:13Z Sigyn joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:26:35Z travv0: except for mapcan if the function called on the last item in the list returns nil
2017-01-23T16:26:35Z zerous joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:27:48Z papachan: someone can help me to understand why i cannot retrieve the post params from hunchentoot request handler?
2017-01-23T16:28:53Z phoe__: travv0: actually
2017-01-23T16:29:03Z travv0: oh boy
2017-01-23T16:29:07Z phoe__: (mapcar #'1+ ())
2017-01-23T16:29:10Z phoe__: ; => NIL
2017-01-23T16:29:20Z phoe__: there, a perfectly legal NIL
2017-01-23T16:29:28Z papachan: i am using something very simple http://paste.lisp.org/display/337269
2017-01-23T16:29:41Z phoe__: (mapc #'1+ ()) ; => NIL even!
2017-01-23T16:30:23Z travv0: Looks like that's the case for all of them, you got me
2017-01-23T16:31:33Z phoe__: trivial cases for the win!!!11
2017-01-23T16:32:40Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T16:32:45Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:33:10Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:33:43Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-23T16:33:46Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:34:47Z handlex quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T16:35:34Z saturniid joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:35:49Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:36:19Z Petit_Dejeuner: papachan: What does raw-data look like?
2017-01-23T16:36:37Z _death: papachan: that depends on what you consider "post params".. you don't say how you make a post request
2017-01-23T16:38:47Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T16:38:59Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-23T16:42:19Z papachan: Petit_Dejeuner: it look like i have all the string i post from my html
2017-01-23T16:44:56Z handlex quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-23T16:47:05Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:47:33Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:49:11Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-23T16:50:00Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T16:50:52Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:51:00Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:51:17Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-23T16:53:37Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-23T16:54:11Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-23T17:02:13Z SamSkulls quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-23T17:02:27Z proclus quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T17:02:49Z iamblichus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T17:03:47Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-23T17:04:03Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-23T17:04:49Z phoe__: Is there a function in CL-FAD or something similar that will give me a directory meant for temporary files in a platform-independent way?
2017-01-23T17:05:20Z phoe__: Basically, "/tmp/" on Unixlikes, "%USERPROFILE%\Local Settings\Temp\" on Windows?
2017-01-23T17:06:34Z _death: getenv
2017-01-23T17:07:43Z phoe__: GETENV. Looks like UIOP's domain, right?
2017-01-23T17:08:10Z jackdaniel: phoe__: (cl-fad:get-default-temporary-directory)
2017-01-23T17:08:18Z PuercoPop: phoe__: SLIME has a function for that iirc. Also does sb-posix:mkstemp work on windows?
2017-01-23T17:08:36Z phoe__: jackdaniel: woah
2017-01-23T17:08:40Z jackdaniel: ah, it's not eported apparently
2017-01-23T17:08:42Z jackdaniel: use double colon
2017-01-23T17:08:47Z jackdaniel: two double colons ;)
2017-01-23T17:09:15Z phoe__: jackdaniel: yeah. I wish that was external.
2017-01-23T17:09:23Z phoe__: Like, d'oh, it makes sense.
2017-01-23T17:09:29Z phoe__: I want to make temporary *directories*.
2017-01-23T17:12:12Z phoe__: https://github.com/edicl/cl-fad/pull/20
2017-01-23T17:15:56Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-23T17:21:33Z benwbooth quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-23T17:22:40Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-23T17:22:57Z prole left #lisp
2017-01-23T17:23:22Z attila_lendvai quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T17:24:46Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-23T17:26:28Z wheelsucker left #lisp
2017-01-23T17:27:54Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2017-01-23T17:28:27Z mishoo__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T17:28:52Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T17:32:48Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-23T17:35:01Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T17:40:26Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-23T17:41:18Z askatasuna quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.3 - http://znc.in)
2017-01-23T17:41:40Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-23T17:41:41Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T17:44:02Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2017-01-23T17:46:19Z mishoo__ quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2017-01-23T17:48:45Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T17:51:13Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-23T17:53:24Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-23T17:53:41Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-23T17:55:35Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-23T18:04:51Z fjl_ is now known as fjl
2017-01-23T18:07:29Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-23T18:10:16Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T18:13:05Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T18:14:07Z pierpa joined #lisp
2017-01-23T18:14:28Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-23T18:16:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-23T18:22:29Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-23T18:22:30Z wildlander quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-23T18:23:34Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-23T18:23:58Z wildlander_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T18:24:49Z wildlander_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T18:25:36Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-23T18:32:52Z malice` quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-23T18:34:24Z alphor quit (Quit: Bye!)
2017-01-23T18:35:24Z alphor joined #lisp
2017-01-23T18:35:55Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-23T18:38:17Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-23T18:39:46Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-23T18:46:03Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-23T18:48:59Z jmarciano: beach: I did the exercise with perl
2017-01-23T18:49:25Z jmarciano: perl -e 'print 0.9 - (0.3 + 0.6)' => 1.11022302462516e-16
2017-01-23T18:49:59Z beach: Good.
2017-01-23T18:51:11Z beach: So now you see that this has nothing to do with Common Lisp, and everything to do with the fact that floats are represented in binary, and that none of those numbers has an exact representation as floating point values.  Hence the non-zero difference.
2017-01-23T18:51:57Z beach: [The result is pretty much the same for SBCL with double floats]
2017-01-23T18:52:50Z LiamH1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T18:53:01Z beach is off to spend time with his (admittedly small) family.
2017-01-23T18:53:06Z jmarciano: yes, I did read that article little
2017-01-23T18:55:28Z jmarciano: and I finished ecef2geodetic, so that I can shift ARC1960 geodetic datum to WGS84. This is Tanzania, they use old system. http://paste.lisp.org/display/337277 and it works in comparison pretty well.
2017-01-23T18:59:09Z phoe__ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-23T18:59:55Z proclus joined #lisp
2017-01-23T19:01:56Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-23T19:09:46Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-23T19:10:14Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-23T19:14:26Z loke quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T19:14:42Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-23T19:19:35Z kodnin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T19:26:00Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T19:26:13Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-23T19:29:04Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T19:30:18Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-23T19:32:32Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T19:33:35Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-23T19:34:34Z proclus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-23T19:38:36Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-23T19:41:00Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T19:41:33Z proclus joined #lisp
2017-01-23T19:43:45Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-23T19:52:11Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-23T19:58:58Z KZiemian joined #lisp
2017-01-23T20:00:57Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-23T20:04:00Z wedesoft joined #lisp
2017-01-23T20:14:40Z proclus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T20:16:24Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T20:20:55Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-23T20:21:51Z Xach: hmm, i use (loop for i below 42 ...) quite a bit. Is there an equivalent (loop for i downfrom ...) to avoid including the fencepost?
2017-01-23T20:22:11Z Xach: e.g. i want to get indexes from the end of a vector and decreasing
2017-01-23T20:22:50Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-23T20:24:44Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-23T20:26:00Z dlowe: (loop for x below (length v) as i = (- (length v) x) ...)
2017-01-23T20:26:06Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T20:27:07Z dlowe: not pretty, I realize
2017-01-23T20:27:09Z Xach: dlowe: I mean I would like to do something like (loop for i downfrommagic (length v) ...) instead of (loop for i downfrom (1- (length v)) ...)
2017-01-23T20:27:22Z Xach: I don't know if the magic is real
2017-01-23T20:28:41Z dim: ahah, I have access to a customer's use case to fix, I like that ;-)
2017-01-23T20:28:54Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-23T20:28:55Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T20:28:56Z Xach: dim: what's the challenge in that?
2017-01-23T20:30:00Z dim: mssql support in pgloader
2017-01-23T20:30:13Z dlowe: Xach: it doesn't look like it
2017-01-23T20:30:19Z pjb: (loop for i downfrom 10 to 0 collect i) #| --> (10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0) |#
2017-01-23T20:30:24Z dim: the challenge for me usually is getting access to a reproducible test case / environment, so I'm quite happy to have one this time
2017-01-23T20:31:53Z dlowe: pjb: it's inclusive of 10
2017-01-23T20:32:03Z dlowe: which is explictly what Xach didn't want
2017-01-23T20:32:16Z dlowe: Xach: it looks like that facility only exists on the stopping conditions
2017-01-23T20:32:39Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-23T20:32:41Z Xach: dlowe: tongue in cheek. I mean, it is fun to get just a screenshot of a dialog box along with "hey it doesn't work"
2017-01-23T20:32:41Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-23T20:33:12Z Xach: err, dim
2017-01-23T20:33:19Z Xach mixes up his d-nicks
2017-01-23T20:33:53Z dim: hehe
2017-01-23T20:34:23Z dim: well the first step is pretty easy, run a default command to completion
2017-01-23T20:34:41Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T20:36:36Z dim: otherwise, Xach, https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/issues/480
2017-01-23T20:36:40Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-23T20:37:00Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-23T20:43:47Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T20:44:23Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-23T20:48:46Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-23T20:50:50Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-23T20:51:30Z bias joined #lisp
2017-01-23T20:53:18Z proclus joined #lisp
2017-01-23T20:56:46Z bias quit (Quit: Hermes - Material IRC Client - https://numixproject.org/)
2017-01-23T20:57:19Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-23T20:58:29Z bias joined #lisp
2017-01-23T21:03:07Z bias quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-23T21:06:09Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T21:08:05Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-23T21:09:24Z BusFactor1: Is there a way to get hunchentoot to not capture errors and print a stack trace?  I want my CL system to handle them.
2017-01-23T21:12:55Z rpav: like you would handle errors in any other case?
2017-01-23T21:14:25Z BusFactor1: Just during development
2017-01-23T21:14:59Z BusFactor1: I'd rather see a popup of restarts rather than getting output printed to the console in my LispWorks.
2017-01-23T21:16:40Z easye: BusFactor1: see HUNCHENTOOT:*CATCH-ERRORS-P*
2017-01-23T21:16:41Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T21:20:48Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-23T21:22:02Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-23T21:22:09Z BusFactor1: Thank you
2017-01-23T21:23:55Z BigSafari quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-23T21:28:39Z kodnin quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-23T21:29:30Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-23T21:30:37Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-23T21:32:37Z KZiemian quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-23T21:35:23Z jason_m` joined #lisp
2017-01-23T21:37:05Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T21:41:37Z Blukunfando quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-23T21:42:36Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-23T21:44:46Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-23T21:44:48Z chronull quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T21:45:02Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-23T21:45:32Z chronull joined #lisp
2017-01-23T21:46:23Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-23T21:46:55Z proclus quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-23T21:49:20Z klltkr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T21:52:41Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2017-01-23T21:53:10Z phoe_: geez
2017-01-23T21:53:14Z phoe_: I can declare a metaclass
2017-01-23T21:53:30Z phoe_: and suddenly, boom, my objects are backed up by hard drive persistence
2017-01-23T21:53:40Z phoe_: CLOS is amazing
2017-01-23T21:56:40Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-23T21:58:20Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-23T21:59:03Z deank quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-23T22:04:28Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-23T22:06:11Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-23T22:06:38Z Xach: phoe_: did you see joe marshall's series of posts on that topic?
2017-01-23T22:07:17Z pankracy quit (Changing host)
2017-01-23T22:07:17Z pankracy joined #lisp
2017-01-23T22:08:10Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-23T22:08:50Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T22:17:40Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-23T22:19:21Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-23T22:20:27Z edgar-rf_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T22:20:55Z wedesoft quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T22:20:58Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-23T22:27:29Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-23T22:27:58Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-23T22:29:47Z hydan joined #lisp
2017-01-23T22:31:59Z emaczen joined #lisp
2017-01-23T22:32:08Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-23T22:32:14Z emaczen: what is the slime command for viewing a class hierarchy?
2017-01-23T22:32:48Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-23T22:35:30Z edgar-rft: emaczen: M-x slime-browse-classes
2017-01-23T22:36:25Z emaczen: edgar-rft: Thanks, I couldn't remember... I'm surprised my auto-completion candidates didn't list it in emacs...
2017-01-23T22:37:43Z edgar-rft: it might be a contrib that first must be enabled or loaded
2017-01-23T22:38:16Z edgar-rft: <https://www.common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Xref-and-Class-Browser.html>
2017-01-23T22:38:42Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-23T22:38:53Z emaczen: I have: (setq slime-contribs '(slime-fancy slime-xref-browser slime-sprof slime-asdf slime-company)) in emacs
2017-01-23T22:38:57Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2017-01-23T22:38:57Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-23T22:38:57Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2017-01-23T22:38:57Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-23T22:39:10Z pillton: slime-company?
2017-01-23T22:39:30Z emaczen: pillton: company-mode for slime
2017-01-23T22:39:50Z emaczen: pillton: I haven't really changed my setup in 1.5 years if that matters...
2017-01-23T22:40:02Z pillton looks up company-mode.
2017-01-23T22:40:13Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-23T22:40:14Z emaczen: it stands for "complete anything"
2017-01-23T22:41:38Z pillton: Bah.. Millennials.
2017-01-23T22:42:37Z emaczen: pillton: haha?
2017-01-23T22:43:20Z pillton: Looks interesting.
2017-01-23T22:48:39Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-23T22:49:33Z emaczen: any idea why my contrib doesn't seem to load
2017-01-23T22:50:34Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-23T22:52:34Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-23T22:52:55Z emaczen quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2017-01-23T22:55:08Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-23T22:56:01Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T22:59:10Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T23:07:18Z ft quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T23:09:42Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-23T23:10:14Z ft joined #lisp
2017-01-23T23:11:05Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T23:17:09Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-23T23:22:20Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-23T23:22:53Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-23T23:23:58Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-23T23:27:46Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-23T23:27:57Z edgar-rf_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T23:28:22Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-23T23:28:23Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-23T23:30:37Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-23T23:30:38Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-23T23:31:02Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-23T23:32:33Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-23T23:37:22Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-23T23:41:58Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-23T23:42:32Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-23T23:42:56Z lambda-smith quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-23T23:48:35Z snits quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-23T23:50:01Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-23T23:54:36Z raydeejay: I'm toying with this https://gist.github.com/1c5106d47b8d095f352ba620eb00e52d but ideally I'd want to use the same names as C# code does without surrounding them in bars ||... but I can't figure out how
2017-01-23T23:55:14Z raydeejay: this is the output of TRANSPILE for reference https://gist.github.com/44e8f61ec66ea00b3abeda37c8d568ed
2017-01-23T23:56:01Z pjb: (setf (readtable-case *readtable*) :preserve)  (C# (USING System System.Collection) (NAMESPACE LispMod (CLASS LispItem NIL (PUBLIC) …)))
2017-01-23T23:56:20Z BusFactor1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-23T23:57:00Z pjb: raydeejay: so, with (|SETF| (|READTABLE-CASE| |*READTABLE*|) :|PRESERVE|), the reader doesn't upcase letters, so you get the native case sensitivity of CL.
2017-01-23T23:57:20Z pjb: raydeejay: all the symbols exported from CL are in uppercase, so you will have to write them in uppercase.
2017-01-23T23:58:20Z raydeejay: mmm... *gives it a quick try*
2017-01-23T23:59:00Z pjb: raydeejay: Now, you can also play with reader macros, to define any syntax you want to enter C# forms, if you want another syntax than sexps.
2017-01-23T23:59:42Z raydeejay: that is probably what I want... right?
2017-01-24T00:00:58Z pjb: I don't know.  For Objective-C FFI, I implemented an Objective-CL, ie. a reader macro [recipient message:argument andArg:otherArgument]  that reads as (send "message:andArg:" recipient argument otherArgument)
2017-01-24T00:02:02Z pjb: So for example, you could implement a reader macro { that would let you write something ressembling C# syntax (and therefore with C# case sensitivity): { recipient.message(arg1,arg); }.
2017-01-24T00:02:27Z pjb: On the other hand, having a sexpified form makes it more easy to define lisp macros expanding to those forms.
2017-01-24T00:03:48Z pjb: It is not to hard to convert between camel case and lisp case, so you could also just write: (c# (using system system.collection) (namespace lisp-mod (class lisp-item nil (public) (method set-value () ((int i) (int h)) blah blah))))
2017-01-24T00:04:36Z pjb: the symbols corresponding to C# identifiers would be converted from lisp SYSTEM -> System, SYSTEM.COLLECTION -> System.Collection LISP-ITEM -> LispItem SET-VALUE -> setValue etc.
2017-01-24T00:04:55Z pjb: (knowing what the identifier identifies determines whether the first letter is capitalized or not).
2017-01-24T00:05:04Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-24T00:05:21Z raydeejay: yeah, but... this C# codebase is messy enough that I'd prefer to keep the casing as I write it
2017-01-24T00:06:20Z raydeejay: in any case, I think you enlightened me enough to give it another, more informed try :)
2017-01-24T00:06:32Z jleija quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-24T00:06:40Z pjb: Ok, anyways, the thing is that you can play with the readtable-case.  You don't have to set it globally: you can set it when you read the C# forms.
2017-01-24T00:06:53Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-24T00:07:49Z pjb: So basically, you may define a reader macro #\{ that will just read a list of objects until #\} (using read-delimited-list), but having set temporarily readtable-case to preserve.
2017-01-24T00:08:28Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-24T00:08:40Z pjb: you will have to |using| |namespace| the other symbols in your expand functions, but not in your C# code.
2017-01-24T00:08:55Z raydeejay: that's what I was thinking
2017-01-24T00:09:03Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-24T00:12:00Z pjb: (set-macro-character #\{ (lambda (stream ch) (declare (ignore ch)) (let ((*readtable* (let ((rt (copy-readtable nil))) (setf (readtable-case rt) :preserve)))) (read-delimited-list #\} stream t)) nil)
2017-01-24T00:12:11Z pjb: )
2017-01-24T00:14:32Z pjb: (set-macro-character #\{ (lambda (stream ch) (declare (ignore ch)) (let ((*readtable* (let ((rt (copy-readtable nil))) (setf (readtable-case rt) :preserve) RT))) (read-delimited-list #\} stream t)) nil))
2017-01-24T00:15:06Z pjb: grr.
2017-01-24T00:15:10Z pjb: (set-macro-character #\{ (lambda (stream ch) (declare (ignore ch)) (let ((*readtable* (let ((rt (copy-readtable nil))) (setf (readtable-case rt) :preserve) RT))) (read-delimited-list #\} stream t))) nil)
2017-01-24T00:15:14Z pjb: '{(using system system.collection) (namespace lisp-mod (class lisp-item nil (public) (method set-value () ((int i) (int h)) blah blah)))} --> ((|using| |system| |system.collection|) (|namespace| |lisp-mod| (|class| |lisp-item| |nil| (|public|) (|method| |set-value| nil ((|int| \i) (|int| \h)) |blah| |blah|))))
2017-01-24T00:15:50Z pjb: '{(using System System.Collection) (namespace LispMod (class LispItem nil (public) (method setValue () ((int i) (int h)) blah blah)))} --> ((|using| |System| |System.Collection|) (|namespace| |LispMod| (|class| |LispItem| |nil| (|public|) (|method| |setValue| nil ((|int| \i) (|int| \h)) |blah| |blah|))))
2017-01-24T00:17:39Z cromachina: http://paste.lisp.org
2017-01-24T00:20:33Z raydeejay: lovely
2017-01-24T00:21:05Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-24T00:24:47Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T00:27:09Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T00:30:24Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-24T00:32:02Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T00:32:56Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-24T00:33:10Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T00:43:49Z kodnin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T00:46:44Z snits joined #lisp
2017-01-24T00:47:58Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T00:49:09Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T00:50:13Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T00:50:53Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-24T00:54:56Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T01:01:28Z ski joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:01:34Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-24T01:01:43Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:02:24Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:05:14Z orbital-smith_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:05:20Z orbital-smith_: is anyone here?
2017-01-24T01:05:42Z orbital-smith_: i have a general question about functional composition (not specifically lisp related)
2017-01-24T01:06:48Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:06:56Z JuanDaugherty: this is a common lisp channel but go ahead
2017-01-24T01:07:32Z eschatologist quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T01:08:10Z JuanDaugherty: #haskell might be more apropos
2017-01-24T01:08:27Z JuanDaugherty: or other pure functional lang
2017-01-24T01:08:54Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:11:02Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:12:13Z eschatologist joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:14:05Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T01:15:55Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:16:05Z aeth: or even #scheme or #racket, because both encourage a more functional style.
2017-01-24T01:16:51Z akkad: this channel is for THE-Lisp
2017-01-24T01:16:56Z aeth: I think every sufficiently large Common Lisp program is a messy mix of 5 different paradigms, rather than trying to aim at a functional ideal.
2017-01-24T01:17:23Z aeth: akkad: I think you mean (the lisp programming-language)
2017-01-24T01:17:40Z akkad: those in the know, just say "the lisp"
2017-01-24T01:18:12Z vtomole: I agree that's why i think cl is kind of a mess. But it's practical!
2017-01-24T01:20:54Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T01:21:42Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:26:04Z aeth: Right, and Lisp is also in the performance class of "can potentially run on a toaster" (or, more practically, a vacuum)
2017-01-24T01:26:05Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-24T01:27:02Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-24T01:31:55Z orbital-smith_: my question is, lazy evaluation of functions as a requirement for iteration
2017-01-24T01:32:49Z orbital-smith_: well, that isn't really a question
2017-01-24T01:33:15Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:33:36Z JuanDaugherty: no, but that's not really an answer
2017-01-24T01:34:16Z orbital-smith_: but if i could phrase it as one, that question would be... "in a functional control flow sense, should functions that enumerate some inner function, resolve there inner function in a lazy fashion"?
2017-01-24T01:34:33Z orbital-smith_: *their
2017-01-24T01:35:29Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:35:57Z JuanDaugherty: if the lang/it's implementation support lazy eval, it will be uniform generally unless you jigger
2017-01-24T01:36:04Z JuanDaugherty: *its
2017-01-24T01:36:27Z orbital-smith_: JuanDaugherty: i apoligize for the javascript, but this is kinda what i mean https://gist.github.com/anonymous/681a0df558e6967f85a2198f969ed6db
2017-01-24T01:36:31Z JuanDaugherty: and generally you wouldn't at that fine or level or even be able to
2017-01-24T01:36:52Z orbital-smith_: JuanDaugherty: better formatted http://pastebin.com/zPURgg4T
2017-01-24T01:37:44Z JuanDaugherty: no need to apologize to me, i'm not a monoglot and do js but the rest of the channel is prolly starting to get pissed
2017-01-24T01:37:55Z orbital-smith_: JuanDaugherty: so, the concept here is that watch - repeats on file system watch events, so its inner tasks need to repeat.... because of that requirement, the inner tasks need to be constructed lazily on each iteration
2017-01-24T01:38:33Z orbital-smith_: JuanDaugherty: but, this requirement isn't true for things that don't repeat
2017-01-24T01:38:49Z orbital-smith_: i found it interested as a concept, i wondered if it had a name
2017-01-24T01:40:06Z orbital-smith_: JuanDaugherty: and i thought the best people to ask were functional programmers of the lisp variety
2017-01-24T01:40:32Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-24T01:41:25Z jmarciano left #lisp
2017-01-24T01:41:50Z JuanDaugherty: orbital-smith_, in any computing culture there's a strong tendency to monoglossy (e.g. people here want the world to be in common lisp); js is not any kind of functional lang and i think you are getting balled up
2017-01-24T01:42:11Z JuanDaugherty: in concepts that have little to do with getting the end thing done
2017-01-24T01:45:09Z krwq joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:46:28Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:47:01Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:49:18Z JuanDaugherty: (i.e. the lang based cultures, which tend to break up into lang centric shops/depts)
2017-01-24T01:49:53Z JuanDaugherty: (that is the non-lang centric cultures do)
2017-01-24T01:49:58Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:50:09Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:50:30Z orbital-smith_: JuanDaugherty: i don't want to get hung up on languages
2017-01-24T01:51:18Z aeth: JuanDaugherty: I think it's because to master a language and its ecosystem (especially the latter) it takes years of experience.
2017-01-24T01:51:28Z orbital-smith_: JuanDaugherty: the question relates more to a concept in functional composition, and is applicable to any language with higher order functions, its just that i happen to be working in javascript atm....my question is not javascript centric at all
2017-01-24T01:51:30Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:51:47Z prhodes joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:52:26Z orbital-smith_: really, going off in some tangent about language cultures really doesn't address that question at all, i guess ill ask it elsewhere, thanks
2017-01-24T01:53:13Z JuanDaugherty: bye
2017-01-24T01:54:52Z wheelsucker quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-24T01:54:53Z aeth: orbital-smith_: This channel is fairly strict about being for Common Lisp.
2017-01-24T01:55:05Z aeth: Just like #python is probably fairly strict about being for Python.
2017-01-24T01:55:11Z krwq: hey, what could be causing error-free load from sources but errors when loading fasl file? i have a piece of code which fills the global variable as it is being loaded and seems that this variable never get changed when loading fasl. i have put all the critical pieces of code under (eval-when (:execute :load-toplevel :compile-toplevel) ...)
2017-01-24T01:55:36Z aeth: orbital-smith_: you should probably try something general like ##programming
2017-01-24T01:56:10Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-24T01:56:54Z orbital-smith_: aeth: maybe, i think given the nature of LISP, that topics of functional composition in the language would be more of a focus than in other languages, the other language where that may be true is haskell (but i don't like talking with haskell programmers)
2017-01-24T01:57:01Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T01:57:36Z vtomole: orbital-smith: Why?
2017-01-24T01:57:39Z aeth: orbital-smith_: but your question would have to be worded in Lisp and answered in Lisp
2017-01-24T01:58:19Z JuanDaugherty: #haskell is way friendlier than here
2017-01-24T01:58:50Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T01:58:55Z aeth: orbital-smith_: The only place where I could think of as an exception (i.e. would accept a JavaScript question even though it's a channel that's about a non-JS language) would probably be some JS-specific purely functional environment
2017-01-24T01:58:59Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-24T01:59:29Z aeth: there are several such languages
2017-01-24T02:00:10Z aeth: and probably several functional frameworks built on top of JS, which would be an even better fit
2017-01-24T02:00:45Z orbital-smith_: aeth: the question was functional composition related, not language / framework related
2017-01-24T02:02:04Z aeth: in which case there is a ##programming and a ##computerscience and a ##cs
2017-01-24T02:03:58Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T02:04:48Z aeth: This channel, though, is strictly for Common Lisp. It's probably stricter than some language-related channels. If you must ask Lispers, #lispcafe or ##lisp are much friendlier to off-topic discussions (in fact, #lispcafe is basically the off-topic channel for this channel)
2017-01-24T02:06:43Z orbital-smith_: aeth: functional composition is off topic in Lisp? how strange
2017-01-24T02:06:56Z orbital-smith_ left #lisp
2017-01-24T02:06:56Z aeth: There's also a #proglangdesign and... there's a good topical fit called #symbo1ics (mentions functional programming in the title), but it's a small channel.
2017-01-24T02:07:18Z aeth: This is a very useful tool: http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode
2017-01-24T02:07:35Z travv0`: he's gone
2017-01-24T02:07:50Z aeth: Yes, but I wasn't about to put my work in finding possible channels to waste.
2017-01-24T02:11:19Z hydan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T02:12:24Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T02:13:38Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-24T02:16:00Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-24T02:16:01Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-24T02:16:18Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp
2017-01-24T02:16:50Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T02:19:49Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2017-01-24T02:25:04Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-24T02:31:34Z JuanDaugherty thinks hs peoples just got an unwitting complement
2017-01-24T02:32:00Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-24T02:34:40Z vtomole: The haskell channel is nice
2017-01-24T02:42:45Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T02:48:22Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-24T02:48:26Z ahungry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T02:49:09Z rumbler31 quit
2017-01-24T02:50:44Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-24T02:50:47Z fiddlerwoaroof quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-24T02:51:42Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T02:56:08Z fiddlerwoaroof joined #lisp
2017-01-24T02:57:54Z mattrepl quit (Quit: mattrepl)
2017-01-24T03:00:36Z nrp3c quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-24T03:00:58Z loke quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T03:01:57Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-24T03:02:35Z djuber joined #lisp
2017-01-24T03:04:01Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T03:10:28Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-24T03:15:34Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T03:17:14Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-24T03:26:08Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T03:30:13Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-24T03:30:48Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-24T03:31:17Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-24T03:31:54Z space_otter joined #lisp
2017-01-24T03:35:05Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-24T03:39:05Z aeth: good morning beach
2017-01-24T03:45:53Z aeth: (The following is addressed to everyone, not to beach)
2017-01-24T03:45:56Z aeth: I have an interesting problem where I find myself needing four, possibly six, versions of every function (and those are quite a few functions). That is, single-float and double-float, 3-length and 4-length (and maybe 2-length). This seems like it would be a natural case for generics, except it's dispatching on arrays in code that needs to be fast and probably even inlined.
2017-01-24T03:46:33Z aeth: I can and probably will write a macro to define every version, but that seems like it's only half of the solution.
2017-01-24T03:47:33Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-24T03:48:54Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-24T03:49:49Z aeth: Basically, I discovered that SBCL is very high performance with map and map-into, as long as it knows the types via declare (no need to even change the optimization levels). e.g. https://gitlab.com/zombie-raptor/zombie-raptor/blob/93e7dcbf6c816c6c27804b229713c1d425ace1e4/math/quaternion.lisp#L86-88
2017-01-24T03:50:35Z aeth: So I can write my own vector library that performs almost as well as the other vector libraries, but with considerably less code for quite a few functions, but I'll wind up with e.g. vec3, vecd3, vec4, vecd4, etc., that seem very unlispy.
2017-01-24T03:52:24Z aeth: so e.g. (vecd3+ some-vector-of-3-doubles another-vector-of-3-doubles), in something that vaguely resembles Hungarian notation, which no one likes
2017-01-24T03:57:52Z dddddd quit (Quit: Hasta otra..)
2017-01-24T03:58:40Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T03:59:19Z pillton: aeth: I solve that problem using https://github.com/markcox80/specialization-store.
2017-01-24T04:00:02Z pillton: The readme needs to be updated. I have started using it.
2017-01-24T04:00:32Z aeth: (Oh, and in case it's not clear why I can't just use map directly, (1) I'd have to then put declarations everywhere or get a 10x slowdown and (2) not everything is as easy as a map, just quite a few things.)
2017-01-24T04:01:32Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T04:03:00Z aeth: pillton: "The dispatching process required at run-time can be avoided provided that sufficient information is available at compile time." Exactly.
2017-01-24T04:03:51Z pillton: It is slightly different.
2017-01-24T04:03:57Z aeth: Does it work on types and not just objects, though? Because afaik, methods don't actually work on e.g. (simple-array single-float (3)) or a type (deftype foo () '(simple-array single-float (3))
2017-01-24T04:04:09Z pillton: aeth: That is for finding the right specialization.
2017-01-24T04:04:16Z pillton: It works on types.
2017-01-24T04:04:18Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-24T04:04:49Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T04:05:12Z Bike: you mean "does it dispatch only on classes", i think, aeth
2017-01-24T04:06:04Z aeth: Bike: yes, sorry for being unclear... the context is dispatch
2017-01-24T04:07:48Z mvilleneuve left #lisp
2017-01-24T04:07:59Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-24T04:08:18Z pillton: aeth: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337295
2017-01-24T04:09:20Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T04:09:24Z isBEKaml joined #lisp
2017-01-24T04:09:45Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T04:10:03Z pillton: I have my own math library which uses it. I also use it to perform image transformations.
2017-01-24T04:10:23Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-24T04:12:02Z aeth: Great, that saves me a lot of time! (The only reason I *really* need to do my own math library (which will take time) is because I'm making a 3D physics engine in pure CL, which is afaik more than has been attempted before and thus requires lots more vector math than something basic like sb-cga... and because SBCL is a very smart compiler as-is *without* C-style hacks.)
2017-01-24T04:12:52Z pillton: It uses Bike's introspect environment to gain access to type declarations.
2017-01-24T04:13:20Z pillton: It also understands the forms (my-func (the <type> a)).
2017-01-24T04:14:31Z pillton: If you name the specialisations, or mark them as inline, the automatically installed compiler macro will avoid the dispatch.
2017-01-24T04:14:43Z pillton: ...provided it can determine the types.
2017-01-24T04:15:19Z pillton: The runtime dispatch shouldn't be too bad because it builds a decision tree from the available specialization types.
2017-01-24T04:15:29Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-24T04:15:43Z pillton apologises for switching between Australian and US English.
2017-01-24T04:16:59Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-24T04:18:32Z aeth: Oh, I thought you were switching between UK and US English, and didn't really notice.
2017-01-24T04:18:53Z pillton: UK <=> Australian
2017-01-24T04:19:00Z aeth: when written
2017-01-24T04:19:15Z loke: aeth: You might want to look at the optimisation technique that Beach posted about yesterday.
2017-01-24T04:19:30Z loke: aeth: It can simplify this code by a lot.
2017-01-24T04:20:20Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-24T04:24:08Z pillton: I haven't read what beach said yesterday yet, but I generally write things like http://paste.lisp.org/display/337295#1.
2017-01-24T04:24:10Z drmeister: Is anyone online with thoughts about memoizing generic function calls that cannot be satisfied by calculate-applicable-methods-using-classes?
2017-01-24T04:24:29Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T04:24:44Z isBEKaml quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-24T04:26:23Z drmeister: I've been having this discussion with beach and stassats for the last couple of days about it and I just realized why compute-discriminating-function has a requirement that only when COMPUTE-applicable-methods-using-classes return T as the second value can one memoize the result.
2017-01-24T04:27:09Z pillton: aeth: I have to go to a meeting now. Let me know if you have any questions.
2017-01-24T04:28:39Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T04:33:11Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-24T04:38:46Z pjb` joined #lisp
2017-01-24T04:40:49Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T04:42:33Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-24T04:46:01Z Lord_of_Life quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T04:46:47Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-24T04:47:03Z drmeister: jackdaniel: Are you online?
2017-01-24T04:47:05Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T04:47:36Z drmeister: Have you any experience with ECL's generic-function-spec-list accessor?
2017-01-24T04:52:14Z krwq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T05:00:32Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-24T05:00:58Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-24T05:06:00Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T05:06:44Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-24T05:07:13Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-24T05:11:26Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T05:13:43Z arescorpio quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-24T05:17:44Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T05:17:47Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-24T05:19:05Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T05:21:49Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T05:22:13Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-24T05:26:17Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-24T05:28:43Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-24T05:39:54Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T05:45:27Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-24T05:47:41Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T05:51:56Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T06:09:09Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-24T06:09:18Z adolf_stalin quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-24T06:11:36Z Oladon1 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T06:12:37Z Oladon quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-24T06:12:38Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T06:12:56Z n3k0_t quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-24T06:13:44Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-24T06:13:47Z chronull quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-24T06:14:58Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-24T06:24:32Z tkd quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-24T06:24:35Z tkd_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T06:24:47Z tkd_ is now known as tkd
2017-01-24T06:30:52Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-24T06:31:35Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-24T06:33:32Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T06:34:25Z jackdaniel: drmeister: I've seen it in the sources :)
2017-01-24T06:35:06Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-24T06:45:24Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T06:45:36Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-24T06:46:30Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-24T06:47:14Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-24T06:49:11Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-24T06:50:23Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-24T06:57:44Z heurist__ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-24T07:01:16Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-24T07:01:16Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-24T07:01:16Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-24T07:02:12Z jameser quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-24T07:03:07Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-24T07:05:00Z n3k0_t joined #lisp
2017-01-24T07:09:11Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T07:10:05Z heurist__ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T07:11:17Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-24T07:13:23Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T07:13:52Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-24T07:18:56Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-24T07:30:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-24T07:39:46Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-24T07:45:34Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-24T07:47:50Z BigSafari quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-24T08:02:33Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-24T08:08:07Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-24T08:09:08Z d4ryus2 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T08:09:25Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-24T08:09:50Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T08:12:21Z d4ryus1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-24T08:14:46Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-24T08:15:08Z heurist joined #lisp
2017-01-24T08:15:40Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T08:16:08Z heurist__ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-24T08:16:23Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T08:17:14Z xaotuk joined #lisp
2017-01-24T08:18:58Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-24T08:21:29Z arbv quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2017-01-24T08:22:10Z modory joined #lisp
2017-01-24T08:22:49Z arbv joined #lisp
2017-01-24T08:23:32Z modory quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-24T08:27:10Z xaotuk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T08:27:26Z o1e9 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T08:30:18Z smokeink joined #lisp
2017-01-24T08:31:23Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-24T08:38:56Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-24T08:45:18Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T08:53:34Z salva quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-24T08:54:14Z zacts quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-24T08:58:21Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-24T08:59:17Z server_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-24T09:01:38Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-24T09:03:58Z hhdave_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T09:05:36Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-24T09:05:41Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-24T09:06:26Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-24T09:06:26Z hhdave_ is now known as hhdave
2017-01-24T09:06:47Z loke quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T09:07:57Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-24T09:07:57Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T09:08:33Z pjb` is now known as pjb
2017-01-24T09:11:38Z lisp99 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T09:11:42Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-24T09:14:51Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-24T09:16:16Z salva joined #lisp
2017-01-24T09:20:42Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-24T09:20:47Z zacts joined #lisp
2017-01-24T09:21:06Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-24T09:28:49Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T09:38:04Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-24T09:39:01Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T09:48:03Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T09:48:14Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T09:50:25Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T09:51:22Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-24T09:54:49Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T10:00:33Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-24T10:00:54Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-24T10:01:03Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-24T10:02:44Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-24T10:09:20Z loke quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-24T10:10:10Z attila_lendvai quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-24T10:10:10Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T10:10:10Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-24T10:10:10Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T10:12:10Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T10:16:03Z nopf quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2017-01-24T10:18:35Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-24T10:21:49Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-24T10:22:51Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T10:25:25Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-24T10:25:36Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-24T10:25:46Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Changing host)
2017-01-24T10:25:46Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-24T10:26:34Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T10:29:08Z loke quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T10:29:33Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-24T10:30:30Z Benjx joined #lisp
2017-01-24T10:30:55Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T10:33:09Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-24T10:33:38Z Benjx quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T10:46:03Z malice` joined #lisp
2017-01-24T10:46:59Z lisp99 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-24T10:47:56Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-24T10:49:09Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-24T10:49:24Z malice`: hi all
2017-01-24T10:49:39Z frgo joined #lisp
2017-01-24T10:52:55Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-24T10:56:11Z frgo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-24T10:57:32Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-24T11:01:44Z arbv left #lisp
2017-01-24T11:04:01Z z3r0_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T11:04:56Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:05:57Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:11:04Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T11:11:53Z arbv joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:12:45Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:14:24Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T11:14:43Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:18:23Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:19:47Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-24T11:24:23Z zerous quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T11:24:59Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:29:58Z `JRG quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-24T11:30:15Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:31:51Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-24T11:32:23Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:34:50Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-24T11:35:21Z z3r0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-24T11:37:10Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:38:47Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-24T11:40:29Z scottj joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:42:36Z whiteline quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-24T11:43:07Z whiteline joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:48:58Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:50:31Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:53:57Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:55:43Z server_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T11:57:11Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:57:11Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Changing host)
2017-01-24T11:57:11Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:57:30Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T11:58:49Z z3r0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-24T11:59:00Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-24T12:01:38Z jsnell_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-24T12:02:25Z server_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-24T12:02:34Z jsnell joined #lisp
2017-01-24T12:03:49Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T12:14:01Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-24T12:16:39Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T12:17:16Z z3r0_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-24T12:18:43Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T12:19:24Z z3r0_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-24T12:19:49Z server_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T12:20:40Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T12:22:30Z z3r0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-24T12:25:18Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T12:25:26Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T12:27:59Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T12:32:25Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T12:39:10Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T12:39:57Z Denommus joined #lisp
2017-01-24T12:43:32Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-24T12:44:49Z server_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T12:52:57Z n3k0_t quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-24T12:53:06Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-24T12:57:20Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:02:30Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:03:58Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:07:07Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:07:21Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T13:07:38Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-24T13:09:23Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T13:11:46Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:14:29Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:20:20Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-24T13:21:58Z server_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-24T13:22:42Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:23:45Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:24:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:25:07Z server_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-24T13:25:49Z zooey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T13:25:55Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:26:29Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:29:56Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:31:35Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:33:37Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T13:34:13Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:36:27Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:36:55Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-24T13:38:04Z chronull joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:40:10Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T13:42:02Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-24T13:42:27Z whiteline quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-24T13:43:36Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:45:39Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:48:11Z BigSafari quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-24T13:50:16Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T13:51:14Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-24T13:52:07Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:53:57Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-24T13:55:05Z whiteline joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:56:38Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:59:29Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T13:59:58Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:02:07Z mattrepl joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:02:25Z djuber quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-24T14:03:44Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-24T14:07:13Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:10:29Z whiteline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T14:11:18Z whiteline joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:13:45Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:18:23Z BigSafari quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-24T14:21:27Z potato__ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:22:41Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:24:16Z whiteline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T14:24:51Z whiteline joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:25:23Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:26:02Z zooey quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T14:26:40Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T14:29:16Z potato__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-24T14:29:34Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:36:15Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-24T14:37:35Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-24T14:38:23Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-24T14:39:29Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T14:40:58Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:41:47Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:42:44Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:42:48Z drmeister: jackdaniel: Hi - generic-function-spec-list appears to be an optimization - it looks like a list with an entry for each required argument of the GF and each entry contains either a class or a list of EQL specializers.
2017-01-24T14:44:08Z drmeister: I'm trying to figure out how it's consistent with the MOP.  The MOP says you can only memoize GF calls if compute-applicable-methods-using-classes returns successfully with applicable methods and T as its second return value.
2017-01-24T14:44:49Z drmeister: The ECL CLOS code is memoizing more than that, it's memoizing GF calls to methods with EQL specializers.  generic-function-spec-list is part of how it does that.
2017-01-24T14:47:34Z drmeister: The trick seems to be constructing a key for the GF call memoization.
2017-01-24T14:47:35Z drmeister: https://gitlab.com/embeddable-common-lisp/ecl/blob/develop/src/c/gfun.d#L134
2017-01-24T14:48:31Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T14:48:35Z drmeister: That's the function that creates the key and uses GFUN_SPEC  (which is the C equivalent of (generic-function-spec-list gf)
2017-01-24T14:49:44Z drmeister: That's as far as I've gotten.   I'm trying to figure out what the original ECL coders who wrote this were thinking and how this can be compatible with the MOP.
2017-01-24T14:49:45Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:51:45Z honeymead joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:51:51Z Denommus quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T14:52:15Z Denommus joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:54:29Z pillton quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-24T14:54:37Z o1e9 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-24T14:54:48Z hydan joined #lisp
2017-01-24T14:57:16Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-24T14:58:13Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T14:59:56Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T15:01:20Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:01:32Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:02:32Z jackdaniel: ECL first implemented "ordinary" clos, mop was added afterwards
2017-01-24T15:02:56Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-24T15:03:32Z jackdaniel: so it might be optimization which works fine for clos, but introduces a subtle bug if we consider ECL implementing MOP
2017-01-24T15:03:39Z jackdaniel: (just guessing)
2017-01-24T15:04:28Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-24T15:05:41Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T15:08:57Z BigSafari quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-24T15:09:33Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:12:49Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T15:13:34Z titankiller joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:22:31Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T15:24:29Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:24:51Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:25:06Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-24T15:25:07Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:28:09Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:30:08Z Einwq joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:31:10Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:34:18Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-24T15:34:29Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-24T15:35:03Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-24T15:35:42Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:37:29Z Xach wonders why cl-irregsexp takes so dreadfully long to try to build
2017-01-24T15:38:05Z gendl: Hi, is there a specific term for the "inner" arguments to a 'with' macro?
2017-01-24T15:38:42Z rumbler31: I wonder what cl-irregsexp is for
2017-01-24T15:38:56Z gendl: e.g.    (with-open-file (<what-do-you-call-the-stuff-in-here>) ...)
2017-01-24T15:39:06Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:39:35Z rumbler31: all i know is that you can invert the <what stuff with paredit-convolute...
2017-01-24T15:40:11Z Xach: gendl: I don't think I've heard of a specific term.
2017-01-24T15:40:33Z flip214: beach: tic toc tic toc  time is running out.... and I might need a bit for reading, too!   ;P
2017-01-24T15:41:45Z malice`: gendl: people usually don't talk about that, why do you need that?
2017-01-24T15:42:09Z phoe__ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:42:45Z phoe__ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-24T15:43:18Z gendl: malice`:  for some documentation. To describe how to specify a response-code in AllegroServe.
2017-01-24T15:43:44Z jackdaniel: gendl: cmu manual calls it embedded lambda-list
2017-01-24T15:44:25Z rumbler31: inner body seems to be succinct
2017-01-24T15:44:50Z rumbler31: if you're making such a macro its not unnatural to refer to such contents as the body
2017-01-24T15:46:16Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:47:42Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:47:57Z gendl: I think I like "embedded lambda-list."
2017-01-24T15:48:35Z jackdaniel: it seems that clhs mentions it to, but its not in the index
2017-01-24T15:48:38Z jackdaniel: spec 3.4.4.1
2017-01-24T15:48:44Z jackdaniel: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/03_dda.htm
2017-01-24T15:49:32Z phoe__ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T15:49:34Z phoe__: http://www.mitetashev.com/mit%C3%A9s-blog/what-is-linq-and-why-do-i-want-to-use-it/
2017-01-24T15:50:03Z phoe__: are they reinventing the wheel yet again?
2017-01-24T15:50:47Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-24T15:51:14Z dlowe: wheel inventing is fun and can be profitable if you can convince people that's it's a completely new wheel despite superficial appearances
2017-01-24T15:55:56Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-24T16:00:03Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-24T16:03:47Z malice`: phoe__: well, LINQ isn't that new I believe
2017-01-24T16:03:50Z BusFactor1 quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-24T16:04:43Z titankiller quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T16:04:51Z sellout- quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T16:05:02Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-24T16:05:03Z klltkr quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-24T16:05:21Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-24T16:05:33Z phoe__: malice`: still there's 13 years of difference between the CL standard and C# 3.0. Bear in mind that the non-standarized Lisp had this feature ealier, too.
2017-01-24T16:05:44Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-24T16:06:50Z malice`: when you're stuck in unflexible paradigm, that's what happens
2017-01-24T16:06:57Z Intensity quit (Changing host)
2017-01-24T16:06:57Z Intensity joined #lisp
2017-01-24T16:12:33Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T16:12:57Z manuel_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T16:13:13Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T16:14:54Z emerson quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-24T16:18:24Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-24T16:23:01Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-24T16:24:38Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-24T16:30:45Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-24T16:32:26Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-24T16:33:27Z Denommus joined #lisp
2017-01-24T16:35:49Z phoe__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-24T16:37:07Z cyberlard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-24T16:39:29Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-24T16:40:57Z cyberlard joined #lisp
2017-01-24T16:42:13Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-24T16:43:13Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T16:49:23Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2017-01-24T16:49:40Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T16:50:05Z pjb: In ASDF, how can I find for a given system and component, the directory where its fasl will be stored? I had this: (defun fasldir  (system component) (first (asdf:output-files (make-instance 'asdf:compile-op) (asdf:find-component (asdf:find-system system) component)))) ; but now (make-instance 'asdf:compile-op) is rejected.
2017-01-24T16:50:35Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T16:53:56Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2017-01-24T16:57:09Z easye: pjb: good question.  I would ask on asdf-devel@ as they "owe" you an answer having deprecated direct use of MAKE-INSTANCE with asdf-3.2.0
2017-01-24T16:59:25Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T16:59:28Z easye: Of course you could "cheat" by invoking COMPILE-OP, than inspecting the fasl cache.
2017-01-24T17:03:18Z pjb: Well, apparently I can substitute make-instance by asdf/operation:make-operation.  I assume it's #+asdf3.1 ?
2017-01-24T17:03:34Z easye: Yeah, probably #+asdf3.1
2017-01-24T17:03:41Z pjb: ok. Thanks.
2017-01-24T17:04:03Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T17:11:25Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-24T17:12:45Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-24T17:18:13Z fe[nl]ix: pjb: make-operation has been available for longer
2017-01-24T17:22:52Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-24T17:24:04Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-24T17:34:49Z Bernouli joined #lisp
2017-01-24T17:39:04Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-24T17:39:04Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T17:40:52Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T17:41:22Z smokeink quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-24T17:42:15Z phoe__ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T17:43:57Z jdz joined #lisp
2017-01-24T17:44:27Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-24T17:44:52Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-24T17:46:07Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-24T17:49:16Z phoe__: lisp is a language where I need to think to code
2017-01-24T17:49:45Z phoe__: and the need to think is rewarded with the shortest and most expressive syntax I can imagine
2017-01-24T17:50:16Z phoe__: and I don't code by slapping classes and design patterns together
2017-01-24T17:50:23Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T17:50:29Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-24T17:50:37Z phoe__: I code by thinking how to bend the language underneath to my will
2017-01-24T17:51:10Z |3b| doesn't think lisp requires thinking more than any others, and others benefit from thinking as well :)
2017-01-24T17:51:16Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T17:51:43Z |3b|: possibly even requires less thinking due to faster feedback, can just poke at stuff instead of thinking
2017-01-24T17:52:50Z phoe__: |3b|: right now I'm working on a way of making the objects I create get autosaved on disk on their creation, update and deletion. I'm chewing on MOP.
2017-01-24T17:52:58Z phoe__: And this stuff sure makes my brain go hot.
2017-01-24T17:53:12Z |3b|: yeah, it does allow for lots of thinking :)
2017-01-24T17:56:01Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-24T17:57:40Z phoe__: woah
2017-01-24T17:58:14Z phoe__: I just realized how powerful combining special variables and :around methods is
2017-01-24T18:02:21Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-24T18:07:03Z phoe__: woah number two
2017-01-24T18:07:27Z phoe__: I actually thought that CL does not do anything with directories, but seemingly, it does
2017-01-24T18:07:33Z phoe__: clhs ensure-directories-exist
2017-01-24T18:07:34Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_ensu_1.htm
2017-01-24T18:10:13Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-24T18:14:23Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-24T18:16:23Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-24T18:18:28Z sebboh: You know the command/option `set -x` for bash?  Is there something analogous to that for sbcl?
2017-01-24T18:19:47Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-24T18:23:06Z phoe__: sebboh: I don't know it. Got any reference for what that command does?
2017-01-24T18:23:32Z sebboh: I doing sbcl --load binmaker.lisp and I get an error: While evaluating the form starting at line 14, column 0 of ...binmaker.lisp, debugger invoke ...blah blah, The name NIL does not designate any package.  That's fine, but line 14 in that file only contains "(unwind-protect".  Thus my question about .. Well, phoe__, I can provide that, one moment.
2017-01-24T18:24:17Z phoe__: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/36273665/what-does-set-x-do/36277661 I see.
2017-01-24T18:25:39Z sebboh: yes, based on the words in that url, I think you got it. :)  Sorry I tried to pick a random shell script from my own /usr/bin and use set +x on it and pastebin it as a demonstration, but that was not the quickest path to an answer. :P
2017-01-24T18:25:45Z Xach: sebboh: what does the rest of the form have in it?
2017-01-24T18:25:56Z Xach: sebboh: (i don't know the answer to your set -x question, sorry)
2017-01-24T18:26:07Z Xach: but your other issue sounds like an interesting puzzle
2017-01-24T18:26:32Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-24T18:26:54Z sebboh: https://github.com/daveloyall/rep/blob/master/binmaker.lisp#L14
2017-01-24T18:28:39Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-24T18:28:44Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-24T18:29:52Z sebboh: Xach^
2017-01-24T18:30:32Z Xach: sebboh: thanks.
2017-01-24T18:30:48Z sebboh: The best part is, this worked last week and I don't know what I changed. ;P
2017-01-24T18:31:48Z Xach: sebboh: should "rep" work with asdf:load-system?
2017-01-24T18:32:07Z Xach: I can't load. I get "Package LOG does not exist" in rep/src/logger.lisp.
2017-01-24T18:32:46Z aeth: phoe__: On the other hand, Lisp has plenty of ways to *not* think and just code, e.g. (map 'foo #'* foo-1 foo-2) can be just as fast as the "right" way to write the code.
2017-01-24T18:34:23Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-24T18:35:14Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T18:35:39Z sebboh: Xach, I don't know how asdf works.  but I just pushed a commit which adds a missing dependency on log4slime
2017-01-24T18:36:37Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-24T18:39:01Z Xach: sebboh: the backtrace suggests that the lisp-executable options are off.
2017-01-24T18:40:03Z sebboh: How may I see this backtrace?
2017-01-24T18:40:39Z Xach: sebboh: when you load binmaker and end up in the debugger, type :backtrace
2017-01-24T18:40:44Z sebboh: oh
2017-01-24T18:40:59Z Xach: sebboh: level 1 has (INTERN "REP" NIL)
2017-01-24T18:41:20Z Xach: that is in the perform method for lisp-executables:create-executables-op
2017-01-24T18:42:20Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-24T18:43:25Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-24T18:43:34Z rjid quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-24T18:44:30Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-24T18:45:59Z sebboh: ...and yet https://github.com/markcox80/lisp-executable/ has not changed since last week... hm.  I must have screwed up my .asd file.  lisp-executable:create-executables-op definitely looks at that.  (Or looks at state that came from that.)
2017-01-24T18:46:01Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-24T18:46:20Z phoe__: clhs map
2017-01-24T18:46:21Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_map.htm
2017-01-24T18:46:41Z phoe__: aeth: you got me puzzled with the 'foo there
2017-01-24T18:46:56Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T18:48:49Z aeth: phoe__: (deftype foo () '(simple-array single-float (3)))
2017-01-24T18:48:56Z aeth: or whatever other very specific sequence you want
2017-01-24T18:50:08Z phoe__: aeth: got it
2017-01-24T18:51:09Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T18:51:42Z aeth: The only downsides are (1) you can't portably define new sequences and (2) even if you could, they probably couldn't cheat as much in the compiler (does any compiler use SIMD when it knows all elements of a map or map-into operation including the result are single-float (or double float?) arrays of the same size?)
2017-01-24T18:53:01Z aeth: (ooooh, could work for non-bignum integers too)
2017-01-24T18:56:26Z Bike: sbcl has "simd packs", but they're a separate type and i don't know where they're documented.
2017-01-24T18:58:14Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-24T18:59:25Z itruslove quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T19:05:53Z srcerer joined #lisp
2017-01-24T19:10:35Z phoe__: Here is a part of the problem I am working on right now.
2017-01-24T19:10:39Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-24T19:10:43Z phoe__: I have a class, let's call it FOO-CLASS.
2017-01-24T19:10:47Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-24T19:11:30Z pjb:  So, the foo-class class.
2017-01-24T19:11:31Z phoe__: It has some slots. I don't know which slots it has.
2017-01-24T19:11:37Z phoe__: But.
2017-01-24T19:11:47Z pjb: But let's call then foo-class-slot.
2017-01-24T19:12:00Z phoe__: Okay. Some slot, FOO-CLASS-SLOT.
2017-01-24T19:12:00Z pjb: so the foo-class class has a foo-class-slot slot.
2017-01-24T19:13:24Z phoe__: There's an accessor function defined for that slot, #'FOO-CLASS-SLOT and #'(SETF FOO-CLASS-SLOT).
2017-01-24T19:13:59Z pjb: Rather, let's call it the foo-class-slot-accessor accessor.
2017-01-24T19:14:24Z Bike: this is a weird vaudeville routine
2017-01-24T19:14:29Z jmarciano: I am glad I am not late for fun
2017-01-24T19:14:50Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-24T19:16:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-24T19:16:41Z phoe__: My issue:
2017-01-24T19:17:36Z pjb: let's call it the my-issue issue.
2017-01-24T19:17:39Z phoe__: Whenever I call an accessor function, I want *BAR* to be bound to (BAR). Which is some function call.
2017-01-24T19:18:27Z phoe__: So, effectively, (defmethod foo-class-slot ((foo-class foo-class)) (let ((*bar* (bar))) ...))
2017-01-24T19:18:38Z pjb: (defmacro calling-accessor (&body body) (let ((*bar* (bar))) ,@body))
2017-01-24T19:18:44Z Bike: er... what's the "..." here
2017-01-24T19:18:52Z pjb: (calling-accessor (foo-class-slot-accessor (make-instance 'foo-class)))
2017-01-24T19:18:52Z phoe__: Bike: that's some function body.
2017-01-24T19:19:03Z Bike: "some" function body? i mean, it's an accessor.
2017-01-24T19:19:30Z phoe__: Okay, there's SLOT-VALUE in there.
2017-01-24T19:19:41Z phoe__: But - I want to utilize MOP for that.
2017-01-24T19:19:42Z pjb: or (call-next-method)
2017-01-24T19:19:52Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-24T19:19:54Z Bike: why do you want a dynamic variable bound just for an access?
2017-01-24T19:20:15Z phoe__: Reading, I could probably skip. SETFing, that's a different story.
2017-01-24T19:20:31Z Bike: uh... i don't really get it...
2017-01-24T19:20:36Z phoe__: I want to dynamically bind *STORE* for permanent classes of BKNR.DATASTORE.
2017-01-24T19:20:39Z Bike: well, can you just define an :around method on (setf foo-class-slot)
2017-01-24T19:21:08Z phoe__: So, basically, define an :AROUND, and then (let (...) (call-next-method))?
2017-01-24T19:21:19Z Bike: that's what it sounds like to me.
2017-01-24T19:21:20Z angavrilov_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T19:21:24Z |3b|: do you want it around accessors or just slot-value?
2017-01-24T19:21:31Z phoe__: I want it around accessors.
2017-01-24T19:21:33Z pjb: Well, you would define a slot-definition meta object that would build your accessors like that.
2017-01-24T19:21:38Z angavrilov quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-24T19:21:59Z |3b|: what about accessors that don't correspond to slots?
2017-01-24T19:22:26Z |3b|: like (setf (area circle) 2) that sets the radius slot of circle
2017-01-24T19:22:41Z phoe__: I'll want the *STORE* bound anyway.
2017-01-24T19:23:22Z phoe__: I'll rather ask MOP to do that for me.
2017-01-24T19:23:24Z phoe__: So I can define :AROUND methods everywhere by hand, but that's somewhat tedious.
2017-01-24T19:23:29Z |3b|: but not things like (draw circle)?
2017-01-24T19:23:31Z EvW1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T19:24:02Z phoe__: I can take two approaches.
2017-01-24T19:24:04Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-24T19:24:10Z phoe__: For safety, I'd bind *STORE* everywhere.
2017-01-24T19:24:36Z |3b|: or (setf (foo circle) 2) that doesn't modify circle, but updates some random hash outside the object or something
2017-01-24T19:24:40Z phoe__: For correctness, I think only writers would need to have that bound.
2017-01-24T19:25:03Z |3b|: are you sure it isn't just around (setf slot-value)?
2017-01-24T19:25:32Z phoe__: I don't know. I need to chew on the internals of BKNR.DATASTORE's persistent classes some more.
2017-01-24T19:25:54Z phoe__: I don't know if it uses SETF SLOT-VALUE internally.
2017-01-24T19:26:05Z phoe__: I mean - I could try it out by empirism.
2017-01-24T19:26:20Z |3b|: well, figure out what it tracks, and do the same thing it does to track it :p
2017-01-24T19:26:40Z |3b|: (assuming you can get it to compose the right way)
2017-01-24T19:27:45Z pjb: phoe__: so basically, your meta-class would indicate a distinct metaclass for the slot-definitions, and you'd define slot-definition-readers and slot-definition-writers methods on this slot-definition meta class to return the reader and writer as you want.
2017-01-24T19:29:01Z pjb: I'd guess…
2017-01-24T19:29:03Z phoe__: yes. let's call that metaclass the foo-class-slot-definition-metaclass...
2017-01-24T19:29:46Z pjb: Well, rather from the common metaclass for your foo-class classes.
2017-01-24T19:29:54Z phoe__: there already exists a metaclass for class instances, PERSISTENT-CLASS.
2017-01-24T19:30:10Z pjb: persistent-slot-definition  or something like that, then.
2017-01-24T19:32:41Z phoe__: ...actually, it looks like I need to munch on INDEXED-CLASS instead.
2017-01-24T19:32:43Z phoe__: https://github.com/hanshuebner/bknr-datastore/blob/9efe61a4f4c6244f2bec6a6192c52b967810ba07/src/data/object.lisp#L132
2017-01-24T19:33:16Z BigSafari quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-24T19:34:15Z phoe__: This looks like the part of code I want to munch on.
2017-01-24T19:34:59Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-24T19:38:35Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T19:39:58Z rumbler31: I
2017-01-24T19:41:39Z rumbler31: I'm trying to find a way to control a thread running a tight loop.  It looks like I won't be able to have the thread execute functions in a pipeline, where one of those functions would send a signal to stop or change state.  I'll be inside one function pushing data out to a server, and need to signal when to stop.  so far, the only safe way I can see to implement it is to put a lock section around a *global*
2017-01-24T19:41:55Z phoe__: ...I'm becoming amazed at how quickly I now read and understand Lisp/CLOS code that I see for the first time in my life.
2017-01-24T19:43:07Z rumbler31: that I check once each loop.  since i've hacked together this implementation with no prior experience with threaded programs, i feel like this answer is too simple, or maybe i'm missing something else
2017-01-24T19:43:33Z rumbler31: the documentation for bordeaux-threads is sparse, leading me to believe it really is "that simple"
2017-01-24T19:44:40Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T19:44:47Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-24T19:47:16Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-24T19:47:50Z phoe__: rumbler31: would a condition variable work?
2017-01-24T19:49:26Z phoe__: also, no need to put a lock in a global, you can close on the lock you want the thread to lock on in the function you pass to make-thread
2017-01-24T19:49:57Z phoe__: (let ((lock (make-lock))) (make-thread (lambda () (frobnicate lock)))
2017-01-24T19:51:52Z xaotuk joined #lisp
2017-01-24T19:53:31Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-24T19:54:33Z Bernouli quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-24T19:56:39Z BigSafari quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-24T19:57:59Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-24T19:58:53Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T19:59:16Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:00:30Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:03:15Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-24T20:03:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:03:40Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T20:05:49Z rumbler31: phoe__: my understanding is that a condition variable is providing infrastructure for the thread to put itself to sleep while waiting on something to change, where as right now the only thread I have that is sleeping is the control thread blocking on input.  the main thread updates the state of the application
2017-01-24T20:06:34Z phoe__: what is the tight loop doing?
2017-01-24T20:06:48Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:07:17Z phoe__: you could go the message-passing style, equip the thread with a queue and push objects onto it.
2017-01-24T20:07:45Z phoe__: (if (anything-on-queue) (process-element (queue-pop)) (tight-loop-stuff))
2017-01-24T20:07:49Z xaotuk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T20:08:00Z rumbler31: and also the lock would need to be accessible from other code... so if I take your example, the lock would only... exist in the context of...uh this thread and whichever code continues running in the let.  Also though... unless I'm mistaken, bt considers that variables introduced in the caller of make-thread are not guaranteed to be visible from one implementation to the next
2017-01-24T20:08:03Z phoe__: #'PROCESS-ELEMENT could in particular make a condition-wait
2017-01-24T20:08:09Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:08:22Z phoe__: variables, no; objects, yes
2017-01-24T20:08:27Z rumbler31: the loop is taking bytes from system audio devices and sending them to a network server, or vice versa
2017-01-24T20:08:43Z akkad: how does one avoid this? Error: Last argument to apply is too long.
2017-01-24T20:08:50Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:09:06Z phoe__: clhs call-argument-limit
2017-01-24T20:09:07Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for call-argument-limit.
2017-01-24T20:09:11Z rumbler31: sorry for my ignorance again, what is the difference between an object and a variable?
2017-01-24T20:09:16Z phoe__: clhs call-arguments-limit
2017-01-24T20:09:16Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_call_a.htm
2017-01-24T20:09:21Z rumbler31: er in this context
2017-01-24T20:09:40Z phoe__: rumbler31: (let ((lock (make-lock))) (make-thread (lambda () (frobnicate lock))))
2017-01-24T20:09:45Z phoe__: you are not passing a variable to the thread
2017-01-24T20:09:49Z phoe__: you are passing a *lock*
2017-01-24T20:09:56Z phoe__: that is right now visible from two threads
2017-01-24T20:10:09Z phoe__: the newly created thread and its parent.
2017-01-24T20:10:47Z rumbler31: so what is an example of a form that has implementation-specific behavior?
2017-01-24T20:10:50Z phoe__: akkad: it probably means that you are passing more than 50 arguments to a function via APPLY and that your code is not portable and hence not guaranteed to run.
2017-01-24T20:10:58Z phoe__: rumbler31: what do you mean?
2017-01-24T20:11:04Z rumbler31: sorry...
2017-01-24T20:11:05Z phoe__: implementation-specific behaviour?
2017-01-24T20:11:26Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-24T20:11:26Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-24T20:11:32Z rumbler31: https://trac.common-lisp.net/bordeaux-threads/wiki/ApiDocumentation
2017-01-24T20:11:38Z rumbler31: under make-thread, the last bullet
2017-01-24T20:11:46Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-24T20:12:07Z rumbler31: i'm still not 100% clear on what all the terms mean in the bullet list.  I assume that globals are defvar/parameter in toplevel
2017-01-24T20:12:08Z phoe__: Local bindings in the the caller of MAKE-THREAD may or may not be shared with the new thread that it creates: this is implementation-defined. Portable code should not depend on particular behaviour in this case, nor should it assign to such variables without first rebinding them in the new thread.
2017-01-24T20:12:43Z rumbler31: right.  I read this as, lock in your form is a local binding in the caller of make-thread
2017-01-24T20:12:52Z phoe__: it's a lexical binding though
2017-01-24T20:13:02Z phoe__: #'FROBNICATE cannot see it anyway
2017-01-24T20:13:12Z phoe__: and I'm not passing any bindings here
2017-01-24T20:13:22Z phoe__: I mean, uh
2017-01-24T20:13:26Z rumbler31: uh?
2017-01-24T20:13:53Z phoe__: it just doesn't make sense any other way
2017-01-24T20:14:29Z phoe__: I'm not telling the function to make anything with the binding of the variable LOCK
2017-01-24T20:14:34Z rumbler31: so the let form isn't binding the variable lock to the result of the make-lock call?
2017-01-24T20:15:07Z phoe__: huh, it is
2017-01-24T20:15:32Z phoe__: so the chance is that I might have been using MAKE-THREAD wrong all along
2017-01-24T20:16:07Z rumbler31: the way I read the bullets is that the only way to share state is through toplevel defvars/defparams
2017-01-24T20:16:13Z phoe__: the question is: (let ((lock (make-lock))) (make-thread (lambda () (frobnicate lock)))) <- is this portable and correct code by BT standards?
2017-01-24T20:16:25Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T20:16:29Z phoe__: and I am not sure that I know the answer. time to ask #lisp.
2017-01-24T20:17:12Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:17:16Z rumbler31: and also, your suggestion about a message passing queue
2017-01-24T20:17:35Z rumbler31: at the heart of it isn't it also needing to hold a lock to check for the presence of any messages?
2017-01-24T20:17:56Z rumbler31: i remember reading somewhere that even comparing symbols shouldn't be considered an atomic operation
2017-01-24T20:18:19Z phoe__: queues usually hold locks, yes
2017-01-24T20:18:44Z rumbler31: so from an architecture question, there's no way to get around it
2017-01-24T20:19:07Z rumbler31: a lock must be acquired in order to check for a change in state
2017-01-24T20:20:07Z rumbler31: and i suppose in hindsight that acquiring the lock isn't going to meaningfully impact my inner loop
2017-01-24T20:20:26Z phoe__: no, really, I wonder if I'm just that stupid. which publicly used piece of code is using bordeaux-threads? I want to see how things are used there.
2017-01-24T20:21:39Z rumbler31: so my understanding of the language for make-thread is correct? this is a "binding" of a "local variable"?
2017-01-24T20:22:57Z phoe__: rumbler31: https://github.com/lmj/lparallel/blob/9c11f40018155a472c540b63684049acc9b36e15/test/thread-util-test.lisp
2017-01-24T20:23:26Z phoe__: with-thread is defined at https://github.com/lmj/lparallel/blob/9c11f40018155a472c540b63684049acc9b36e15/src/thread-util.lisp#L159
2017-01-24T20:23:57Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:23:59Z phoe__: so the lambda closes over variables from outside the lambda and outside the make-thread
2017-01-24T20:24:11Z phoe__: so either I'm right, or lparallel is wrong
2017-01-24T20:24:11Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-24T20:24:27Z phoe__: so I think that my code will work.
2017-01-24T20:25:14Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:25:29Z rumbler31: but there is also *default-special-bindings* that bt looks for
2017-01-24T20:25:39Z rumbler31: whose purpose I don't fully understand
2017-01-24T20:26:31Z manualcrank quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-24T20:26:51Z phoe__: through them, you tell MAKE-THREAD which special variables you want bound by default in new threads.
2017-01-24T20:27:08Z phoe__: in order to avoid (make-thread (lambda () (let (...) ...)))
2017-01-24T20:27:15Z rumbler31: oh
2017-01-24T20:27:18Z phoe__: such stuff.
2017-01-24T20:29:44Z phoe__ quit
2017-01-24T20:30:36Z rumbler31: the test on line 63 of the first link suggests that lparrallel is expecting that... by the time the child process is done... that the binding for memo in child has... come off again?
2017-01-24T20:31:25Z rumbler31: whereas in the test prior, the setf is permanent....
2017-01-24T20:32:18Z rumbler31: although... what does it mean for a symbol to be bound to.. whatever the symbol is already bound to?
2017-01-24T20:33:17Z raynold is now known as raynold[away]
2017-01-24T20:33:28Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:34:48Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T20:34:48Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-24T20:35:19Z BigSafari quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-24T20:38:13Z |3b|: threads can access a closed over lexical variable from thread that created it, that bit of the bt docs is about special variables
2017-01-24T20:38:36Z |3b|: and binding a symbol to whatever it was bound to does exactly that :p
2017-01-24T20:38:51Z |3b|: (in particular, it creates a new binding)
2017-01-24T20:40:53Z |3b|: for special variables you can (portably) use either a global binding or one created within the same thread. bindings created in calling thread may or may not be visible, and may or may not do odd things
2017-01-24T20:41:08Z scymtym__ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:41:56Z vtomole quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-24T20:43:21Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T20:43:27Z rumbler31: ok then once and for all... what is a special variable?
2017-01-24T20:44:07Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:44:11Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:44:23Z TMA: rumbler31: a better global variable of other languages
2017-01-24T20:44:36Z rumbler31: the (let ((lock (make-lock...)) (make-thread (lambda () (frob lock))) <--- lock here is not a special variable
2017-01-24T20:45:16Z TMA: indeed
2017-01-24T20:45:34Z |3b|: a special variable is any variable DECLAREd to be SPECIAL, in particular, DEFVAR and DEFPARAMETER implicitly make a global SPECIAL declaration for the names of variables they create
2017-01-24T20:46:34Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-24T20:46:34Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-24T20:46:49Z |3b|: non-global bindings of special variables have 'dynamic scope' rather than lexical scope, which means any called function further down the stack can see that binding
2017-01-24T20:47:21Z scymtym__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T20:47:41Z |3b|: but that binding disappears when execution leaves the scope that created it
2017-01-24T20:47:44Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:47:55Z |3b| can't think of a good way to phrase that
2017-01-24T20:47:58Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:48:34Z |3b|: while lexical bindings continue to exist as long as a closure exists that closes over that binding
2017-01-24T20:50:03Z vicfred joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:50:33Z TMA: rumbler31: If you have a (let ((bar 'quux)) (defun foo bar)) and then do (let ((bar 'baz)) (foo)) then the value will be baz if bar is special, and quux if it were lexical
2017-01-24T20:52:34Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T20:57:22Z BigSafari quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-24T20:57:43Z rumbler31: thats the trap they keep talking about
2017-01-24T20:58:17Z rumbler31: because then if you've declared bar to be in a defparameter form, you don't know what will happen to this code example unless you also know how its declared
2017-01-24T20:58:51Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-24T20:58:58Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-24T20:58:59Z |3b|: that's why we use ** to mark special variables
2017-01-24T20:59:34Z azrazalea: Nice warm earmuffs
2017-01-24T21:01:45Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-24T21:02:28Z rumbler31: sigh
2017-01-24T21:06:04Z rumbler31: while I seem to be able to reason through these statments, I still don't feel like I "get it"
2017-01-24T21:06:49Z rumbler31: i get that the form with the defun creates a closure
2017-01-24T21:07:12Z |3b|: only if BAR is a lexical variable, no closure if it is special
2017-01-24T21:07:23Z rumbler31: but if bar is defined to be a special variable in the outer scope of the former form, then.... later uses of the foo function could potentially find bar to be rebound
2017-01-24T21:07:29Z rumbler31: oh
2017-01-24T21:08:12Z rumbler31: so if bar is special, the first form won't create a closure... and the result of calling foo will be whatever bar was... bound to in the outer scope?
2017-01-24T21:08:14Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-24T21:08:50Z |3b|: the value of the binding created by the calling scope, if that's what you mean
2017-01-24T21:10:32Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-24T21:13:31Z aruscher joined #lisp
2017-01-24T21:14:27Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-24T21:23:44Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T21:23:51Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-24T21:23:51Z manuel__ is now known as manuel_
2017-01-24T21:25:12Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T21:27:35Z BigSafari joined #lisp
2017-01-24T21:27:47Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-24T21:30:13Z angavrilov_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T21:31:18Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T21:32:39Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-24T21:34:25Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-24T21:40:37Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-24T21:42:24Z aruscher quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-24T21:42:43Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-24T21:43:05Z aruscher joined #lisp
2017-01-24T21:46:13Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-24T21:46:57Z hydan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T21:50:54Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-24T21:53:38Z BigSafari left #lisp
2017-01-24T21:56:38Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T21:56:57Z sunwukong joined #lisp
2017-01-24T21:57:44Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T22:02:46Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T22:03:07Z rumbler31: not quite, i meant if say we know that bar is special in the outer scope of the defun form
2017-01-24T22:04:43Z rumbler31: like (let ((bar "special somehow and bound to value 'floo")) .. (let ((bar 'quux)) (defun foo bar))  ... same scope as 'floo, (foo))
2017-01-24T22:05:40Z rumbler31: the first let establishes bar as a special variable and value to be 'floo.  the inner defun does not create a closure because bar is declared special, and a later call to foo yields... what exactly. 'floo?
2017-01-24T22:06:42Z rumbler31: the alternative being that there is no outer (let establishing bar as a special var, so the defun does create a closure, and the call to foo returns 'quux, even if there is a later lexical binding of bar to 'baz in which foo is called
2017-01-24T22:06:58Z |3b|: there are a few issues to consider
2017-01-24T22:07:08Z |3b|: first is whether each binding is a special or lexical binding
2017-01-24T22:07:25Z |3b|: defvar and defparameter globally declare the name used as special
2017-01-24T22:07:38Z |3b|: you can also do the same thing yourself with declaim/proclaim
2017-01-24T22:08:01Z |3b|: alternately, you can make a specific binding special with a local declaration
2017-01-24T22:08:16Z |3b|: then there is the question of whether a specific access is lexical or special
2017-01-24T22:08:32Z |3b|: with the same options (global or local)
2017-01-24T22:09:28Z rumbler31: hmm
2017-01-24T22:09:47Z |3b|: so if both bindings of BAR and the access are special, the access will see the current special binding in effect at the time it is called
2017-01-24T22:10:06Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T22:10:09Z akkad: phoe_: ahh issue is just on LW.
2017-01-24T22:11:04Z |3b|: if it helps, you might think of 'special' bindings as being on the stack, and a given access looks for the closest binding on the stack
2017-01-24T22:11:11Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-24T22:11:11Z Trystam quit (Changing host)
2017-01-24T22:11:11Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-24T22:11:52Z rumbler31: what I don't get is that, isn't (let ((bar 'quux)) (let ((bar 'baz)) bar))
2017-01-24T22:12:22Z rumbler31: assuming bar wasn't already declared special, doesn't this form return bar,
2017-01-24T22:12:39Z handlex quit (Quit: handlex)
2017-01-24T22:12:42Z rumbler31: 'baz
2017-01-24T22:12:43Z rumbler31: sorry
2017-01-24T22:13:38Z rumbler31: so it is no different from treating a special variable as being on the stack, as the same analogy describes this behavior as well?
2017-01-24T22:13:43Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-24T22:14:01Z pillton joined #lisp
2017-01-24T22:14:05Z Trystam is now known as Tristam
2017-01-24T22:15:39Z |3b|: access to a lexical binding looks for the nearest enclosing binding in the source (again not exactly how it is implemented)
2017-01-24T22:15:49Z |3b|: so in that case, you get the same results either way
2017-01-24T22:16:11Z |3b|: the closest lexical binding is the inner let, which is also the binding in effect when it is evaluated
2017-01-24T22:16:36Z |3b|: the difference is when a function accesses a variable not bound within the scope of that function
2017-01-24T22:16:44Z |3b|: like (defun foo () x)
2017-01-24T22:17:17Z |3b|: or (defun foo () *x*) ;; using ** to mark a name with a global special declaration
2017-01-24T22:17:54Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T22:17:56Z |3b|: in the first case (where X is lexical), if that is all you have it is an error, since there is no variable named X. so (let ((x 1)) (defun foo () x))
2017-01-24T22:18:05Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T22:18:28Z |3b|: in that case, it refers to the binding created by the LET, even after that LET form finishes evaluating
2017-01-24T22:18:38Z rumbler31: ok with you so far
2017-01-24T22:19:14Z |3b|: and if we have (let ((x 1)) (defun a () x) (defun b () (incf x))) both functions refer to the same lexical binding
2017-01-24T22:19:42Z rumbler31: yup
2017-01-24T22:20:37Z |3b|: so for example (list (a) (b) (a)) would return (1 2 2) the first time, then (2 3 3), etc
2017-01-24T22:20:40Z space_otter joined #lisp
2017-01-24T22:21:38Z manualcrank quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-24T22:21:49Z |3b|: if we do (defparameter *x* 1) (defun a () *x*) (defun b () (incf *x*)) we get a similar behavior
2017-01-24T22:22:03Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-24T22:22:03Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-24T22:22:38Z |3b|: both functions access the current dynamic binding of *x*, which in this case is the global binding created by defparameter
2017-01-24T22:23:49Z |3b|: but if we do (let ((*x* 10)) (a)) it will create a new dynamic binding for *x*, which exists from the start of the body of the LET until execution leaves the body of the LET
2017-01-24T22:24:04Z |3b|: (either by getting to the end or through an error or whatever)
2017-01-24T22:24:22Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T22:25:01Z |3b|: so in that case, since A is called within that scope, the binding it sees is the one created by the LET, rather than the global binding
2017-01-24T22:25:59Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-24T22:27:29Z |3b|: so (assuming you haven't called B yet), (let ((*x* 10)) (list (a) (b) (a))) returns (10 11 11), but the global binding isn't modified and calling (a) outside the LET form will still return 1
2017-01-24T22:29:04Z rumbler31: oh.....
2017-01-24T22:29:09Z |3b|: and notice how the DEFPARAMETER and the definitions of A and B using the special var, and the form binding *x* could all be in different files, and it would still behave the same way (assuming proper load order etc)
2017-01-24T22:29:39Z |3b|: while with a lexical binding, the access has to be within the form creating the binding
2017-01-24T22:30:02Z |3b|: 'within' in the sense of the source
2017-01-24T22:30:48Z rumbler31: if the defparameter form was called later, after the establishment of the closure, it would not affect the closure.  but a future invocation of the closing form would be modified
2017-01-24T22:31:39Z |3b|: not quite (if i understand what you mean)
2017-01-24T22:32:20Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-24T22:32:31Z rumbler31: oh wait, the 2nd case you gave was that the defuns were invoked in an environment where *x* is already declared and is special
2017-01-24T22:32:35Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-24T22:32:37Z |3b|: (or maybe it depends on if you compile or interpret, not completely sure of that since it is something that shouldn't be a concern in properly written code)
2017-01-24T22:32:46Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-24T22:33:19Z |3b|: right, the accesses of *x* need to know *x* is intended to be special for them to look for the dynamic binding of *x*
2017-01-24T22:33:43Z |3b|: defining them after the defparameter specifies that globally is the easy way to do that
2017-01-24T22:34:01Z rumbler31: I guess the point is is that, a special variable might end up being a lookup, or something.
2017-01-24T22:34:05Z |3b|: you could also do (defun a () (declare (special *x*)) *x*) before the defparameter
2017-01-24T22:35:24Z |3b|: another way of thinking of the distinction is that lexical accesses decide what binding to use at compile time, while special accesses decide at run time
2017-01-24T22:36:17Z |3b| ignores interpreted code for now, since 'interpret' and 'run' happen at the same time so it is harder to describe the difference in that case
2017-01-24T22:37:23Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-24T22:37:51Z rumbler31: and so... bt says that no guarantees are made in regards to the visibiltiy of bindings made to special variables that are bound in a caller of make-thread.  so (defparameter *x* 1) (let ((*a* 2)) (make-thread (lambda () (let ((*a* 3)) ...)))
2017-01-24T22:38:11Z rumbler31: *a* is probably 2 in the calling thread, and *a* may or may not be 3 in the new thread
2017-01-24T22:38:14Z handlex quit (Quit: handlex)
2017-01-24T22:38:54Z |3b|: in that case there is a new binding created inside the thread, so it doesn't matter what happened to the binding from the calling thread
2017-01-24T22:39:01Z rumbler31: er...
2017-01-24T22:39:18Z |3b|: the question is about (let ((*a* 2)) (make-thread (lambda () *a*)))
2017-01-24T22:39:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-24T22:39:34Z rumbler31: so what exactly is the docs for make-thread trying to specify is "implementation specific"?
2017-01-24T22:40:07Z |3b|: the dynamic binding of *a* was 2 when make-thread was called, so if it were a normal function, things it called would see that binding
2017-01-24T22:40:37Z |3b|: but make-thread is not normal, so it is a bit unclear whether it 'called' that function in the normal sense
2017-01-24T22:41:04Z rumbler31: i suppose then what is going on, is that
2017-01-24T22:41:35Z |3b|: and also, it returned quickly and the LET form finished executing, so by the normal meaning of dynamic binding that binding no longer exists even if the other thread is still running
2017-01-24T22:41:39Z rumbler31: immediately after the make-thread call, there could be some change to *a* and it is not clear then that if the function ends up running before or after such, what the value should be?
2017-01-24T22:42:14Z |3b|: not only that, the new thread might not even see the binding created by the creating thread
2017-01-24T22:42:32Z rumbler31: although I guess that is the case even with a lexical variable.  a race condition exists in either case, right?
2017-01-24T22:43:14Z |3b|: so (let ((*a* 2)) (make-thread (lambda () (incf *a*))) (sleep 2) *a*) might return 3 and the global value of *a* is still 1, or it might return 2 and the global value of *a* is 2
2017-01-24T22:43:38Z |3b|: yeah, ignoring the possibility of races for now
2017-01-24T22:44:10Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-24T22:44:14Z rumbler31: so ignoring races, bt says that this case is not guaranteed to be portably one way or the other
2017-01-24T22:44:15Z |3b|: (well, mostly ignoring, since that's why i put SLEEP in that example)
2017-01-24T22:44:20Z rumbler31: er lol
2017-01-24T22:45:18Z rumbler31: bt says that if a is not special, assuming no race conditions exist, that this code will return 3 and a will revert to whatever it was before
2017-01-24T22:45:37Z rumbler31: whereas if a is special, than either thing could happen, regardless of race conditions?
2017-01-24T22:46:02Z |3b|: for lexical variable, (let ((a 2)) (make-thread (lambda () (incf a))) (sleep 2) a) should return 3
2017-01-24T22:46:15Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T22:46:47Z |3b|: the (incf a) is within the text of the LET form that creates the binding, so it sees that binding regardless of what thread it is called from
2017-01-24T22:47:35Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-24T22:47:57Z |3b|: and there is no A outside that let form
2017-01-24T22:49:22Z rumbler31: so then because *a* is rather resolved at the time (incf is called, then it is subject to race conditions anyways.  although if you could guarantee that it was not, then would the behavior be consistent?  or are the docs describing that the latter is not guaranteed to be the case no way no how
2017-01-24T22:49:34Z rumbler31: *not guaranteed to be portable no way no how
2017-01-24T22:50:05Z |3b|: and if we have (let ((a 10)) (defun a+ () (incf a))) and (let ((a 2)) (make-thread (lambda () (a+) (incf a))) (sleep 2) a) (note the LET forms are separate), we still get 3 from the make-thread
2017-01-24T22:51:04Z |3b|: since the defun sees the lexical binding from the LET surrounding it, and so it modifies that, which is completely independent from the lexical binding created by the other LET form, which is modified by the INCF inside it
2017-01-24T22:51:34Z |3b|: the problem with special bindings is unrelated to race conditions
2017-01-24T22:51:59Z rumbler31: ok I think I understand how lexical variables behave
2017-01-24T22:52:11Z |3b|: the problem is how implementations define "dynamic scope" of functions called in a thread
2017-01-24T22:52:24Z rumbler31: hmm
2017-01-24T22:52:34Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-24T22:52:36Z |3b|: did the "bindings on a stack" description of special variables make sense to you?
2017-01-24T22:52:57Z sunwukong quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-24T22:54:10Z rumbler31: well yes but their behavior describes lexical variables behavior as well.
2017-01-24T22:54:20Z |3b|: not quite
2017-01-24T22:54:27Z rumbler31: except that in certain cases, the environment is squirreled away sometimes
2017-01-24T22:55:21Z |3b|: in that last example, the a+ doesn't see the binding created by the LET being evaluated, and the binding it does see is from a LET that already exited so would have been removed from the stack
2017-01-24T22:55:30Z rumbler31: right
2017-01-24T22:55:35Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2017-01-24T22:55:57Z rumbler31: oh
2017-01-24T22:56:04Z rumbler31: er
2017-01-24T22:56:08Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-24T22:56:10Z |3b|: and yeah, in the trivial case where the access is within both the lexical and dynamic scope of a binding, there isn't much difference
2017-01-24T22:56:47Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-24T22:56:55Z |3b|: so with the stack metaphor, the problem happens when we create the new thread. does it get a new clean stack (so can't see the stack from the calling thread)?
2017-01-24T22:57:43Z |3b|: or does it get a new stack with new copies of the values from the calling thread? (so sees the values that were in effect when the thread was created, but can't interact with the other thread, since it always sees and modifies the bindings on its stack)
2017-01-24T22:58:08Z rumbler31: in the case of a lexical variable... the make-thread call is closed over.. so the environment becomes shareable...
2017-01-24T22:58:43Z |3b|: or do they somehow share the original stack? (sort of confusing, since in that case the variable would have to continue to exist even if the calling thread leaves the LET, so you would have to end up with more of a tree than a stack or something)
2017-01-24T22:59:46Z rumbler31: and in either case... changes the thread makes are either... going to be thread local copies... or redirects to the original set of variables
2017-01-24T22:59:46Z |3b|: while in the case of a lexical variable, you can think of it as just creating a space on the heap when it enters the form, and everything looks at that and it keeps existing as long as something that can look at it exists
2017-01-24T23:00:55Z |3b|: (and i guess there is the remaining trivial case for special variables where there is no local binding in the calling thread, in which case both threads just see the global binding)
2017-01-24T23:01:25Z rumbler31: which is clear that there is no reason why changes shouldn't be visible from both threads
2017-01-24T23:04:05Z rumbler31: I think I can honestly say I understand how lexical variables work more than I did before... and I'm going to have to keep coming back to how special ones work over and over again.
2017-01-24T23:04:16Z baconicsynergy joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:05:05Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-24T23:05:18Z baconicsynergy quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-24T23:05:56Z baconicsynergy joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:06:47Z Einwq quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-24T23:09:33Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-24T23:10:19Z rumbler31: a form that references a variable that doesn't appear to be lexically in scope and is not declared special "so no lookup" will error
2017-01-24T23:10:57Z rumbler31: a form that references a special variable will always lookup whatever the most lexicographically recent binding is
2017-01-24T23:11:29Z |3b|: special will look up current dynamic binding at runtime
2017-01-24T23:12:04Z |3b|: non-special will look at the binding created by the innermost enclosing binding in the source
2017-01-24T23:12:30Z rumbler31: that sounds like the same thing in a single threaded program
2017-01-24T23:12:49Z rumbler31: oh
2017-01-24T23:12:50Z rumbler31: oh
2017-01-24T23:13:08Z |3b|: no, it matters when a closure is called from outside the lexical scope in which it was defined
2017-01-24T23:13:31Z |3b|: since it looks at the 'innermost enclosing binding' when it was defined
2017-01-24T23:13:51Z rumbler31: if it was defined to be special, then it will lookup to find the most recent binding at runtime
2017-01-24T23:13:52Z |3b|: (for a lexical variable)
2017-01-24T23:14:19Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:14:30Z |3b|: while for a special variable, it ignores the binding that was current when it was defined, and looks for whatever binding is in effect when it is called
2017-01-24T23:14:58Z |3b|: (also matters when you pass the closure to other functions within the original scope, since the can create more bindings too)
2017-01-24T23:15:19Z rumbler31: right
2017-01-24T23:15:27Z rumbler31: if the closure closes over special variables
2017-01-24T23:15:45Z rumbler31: then passing it down into an environment where bindings have been made will change what happens
2017-01-24T23:15:46Z |3b|: (defun foo (f) (let ((a 1)) (funcall f))) (defun bar () (let ((a 10)) (foo (lambda () (incf a)))))
2017-01-24T23:16:28Z rumbler31: i think my brain popped
2017-01-24T23:16:38Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:16:41Z |3b|: the lambda is a lexical closure over the A defined in BAR, so even though it is passed to FOO which calls it inside the scope of another lexical binding of A, it still sees and modifies the binding from BAR
2017-01-24T23:16:58Z |3b|: if it were dynamic variables, it would see and modify the binding in FOO
2017-01-24T23:18:13Z rumbler31: i understand what you're saying but i'm trying to read that in the code
2017-01-24T23:18:15Z rumbler31: i think I get it
2017-01-24T23:18:36Z rumbler31: if a was declared special at the time that... the (defun bar was invoked
2017-01-24T23:19:19Z |3b|: declarations matter when the functions are defined (again assuming compilation since it is simpler)
2017-01-24T23:19:20Z rumbler31: then later use of foo would result in a value of 2 being returned and also.... whatever value a was being unmodified after the call to foo
2017-01-24T23:19:50Z |3b|: so yeah, when the DEFUN is evaluated rather than the call to the function
2017-01-24T23:20:10Z rumbler31: otherwise as it stands, we can know that the later call to bar establishes that a will not be visible outside the lambda, so the result will be 11
2017-01-24T23:20:33Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:21:57Z rumbler31: guhh
2017-01-24T23:22:00Z aruscher quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T23:22:17Z rumbler31: that runtime/compile time distinction will probably get me the furthest, until it finally sinks in
2017-01-24T23:24:23Z rumbler31: thanks |3b|
2017-01-24T23:26:10Z BusFactor1 quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-24T23:26:41Z scottj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-24T23:27:42Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-24T23:27:42Z scottj joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:27:42Z scottj quit (Changing host)
2017-01-24T23:27:42Z scottj joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:28:29Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:29:08Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-24T23:32:10Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:37:33Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:38:24Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:39:53Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:43:40Z honeymead quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-24T23:44:52Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:46:02Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:46:23Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T23:46:28Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-24T23:47:18Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:48:30Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-24T23:49:16Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-24T23:50:22Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:51:31Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:51:40Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-24T23:53:14Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-24T23:53:39Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-24T23:53:57Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:54:37Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:54:50Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:56:28Z wheelsucker quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-24T23:58:47Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-24T23:59:54Z NeverDie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T00:05:59Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-25T00:12:38Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-25T00:14:25Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-25T00:16:59Z daniel-s quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-25T00:18:27Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T00:18:58Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T00:20:11Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-25T00:22:24Z rumbler3_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T00:23:40Z jmarciano quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T00:28:11Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-25T00:30:05Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T00:30:45Z server_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T00:31:02Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T00:32:03Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-25T00:32:19Z mada quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-25T00:32:39Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-25T00:52:54Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-25T00:57:16Z borodust: Xach, what is depcheck which seems to be required to run quicklisp-controller's #'recrank?
2017-01-25T00:57:45Z borodust: and on the other note, am i doing it right by using quicklisp-controller to build custom dist?)
2017-01-25T00:58:08Z XachX: borodust: it is built by make in quicklisp controller
2017-01-25T00:58:18Z XachX: borodust: possibly not.
2017-01-25T00:58:34Z borodust: i see, both..
2017-01-25T00:59:40Z borodust: alright, then I'll try https://github.com/orivej/quickdist instead
2017-01-25T00:59:45Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T00:59:59Z borodust: tnx
2017-01-25T01:00:54Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:02:52Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T01:03:38Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:07:30Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-25T01:12:13Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T01:12:33Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T01:13:53Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:15:20Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:15:27Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:16:28Z jamtho quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T01:16:50Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:23:10Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-25T01:25:53Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:26:08Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:28:49Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T01:29:24Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:30:19Z krwq joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:30:27Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T01:33:30Z krwq: Hey, can anyone help me finding out why doesn't this code end up with error? http://paste.lisp.org/display/337350
2017-01-25T01:34:24Z djuber joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:35:53Z mudana quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-25T01:36:14Z krwq: when I compile it with C-c C-k this works as expected (completely no errors and *foo* has some content) when I ql:quickload system containg this package I'd expect an error or that it works the same as C-c C-k
2017-01-25T01:36:28Z krwq: but there is just nothing
2017-01-25T01:38:29Z pillton: Well, the expansion of foo2 is nil.
2017-01-25T01:39:42Z pillton: During compilation, check-foo expands to nil too, so when the fasl file is loaded it will evaluate nil.
2017-01-25T01:39:48Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-25T01:39:57Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:40:24Z Guest54596 quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2017-01-25T01:40:42Z krwq: pillton: so there is no way to do any precomputing during macro expansion?
2017-01-25T01:41:14Z pillton: There is, but the value of *foo* is not saved in to the fasl.
2017-01-25T01:41:30Z Jesin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T01:41:39Z warweasle joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:41:48Z pillton: When the fasl is read, all that is evaluated is (defvar *foo* (make-hash-table)) nil nil
2017-01-25T01:41:57Z pillton: Sorry.. when the fasl is loaded.
2017-01-25T01:42:59Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:43:48Z krwq: pillton: ok I think I kinda understand it but I it just makes me wanna add more questions like: how do you let's say do an index of all arguments passed to macro?
2017-01-25T01:44:10Z Blukunfando quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T01:44:34Z krwq: I'd like to be able to tell in example how many times my macro was expanded
2017-01-25T01:44:58Z krwq: since fasl optimizes that would be 0 all the time?
2017-01-25T01:46:38Z itruslove joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:47:07Z Xach: There's a new quicklisp dist today! Announcement comes in about 12 hours.
2017-01-25T01:48:39Z krwq: Xach: nice - what's coming?
2017-01-25T01:48:42Z giraffe joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:49:05Z giraffe is now known as Guest52692
2017-01-25T01:49:50Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:52:33Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T01:53:01Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:53:09Z Xach: krwq: a bunch of updates. it was effectively almost 2 months since the last update in december.
2017-01-25T01:53:30Z Xach: maybe 20 or 25 new things too...will check the count tomorrow
2017-01-25T01:57:26Z smokeink joined #lisp
2017-01-25T01:59:11Z warweasle quit (Quit: later)
2017-01-25T02:00:36Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T02:07:10Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-25T02:11:10Z nowhereman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T02:11:43Z cmatei quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-25T02:11:47Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T02:12:06Z cmatei joined #lisp
2017-01-25T02:13:07Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-25T02:13:43Z Fare: Xach, any issues with asdf 3.2.0 ?
2017-01-25T02:15:56Z Xach: fare: http://report.quicklisp.org/2017-01-17/failure-report.html
2017-01-25T02:17:20Z Fare: so, mostly unupdated swank?
2017-01-25T02:17:21Z krwq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T02:17:43Z Fare: and iolib, and a few others
2017-01-25T02:18:55Z Fare: thanks!
2017-01-25T02:18:59Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-25T02:22:55Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T02:23:44Z bugrum joined #lisp
2017-01-25T02:24:39Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T02:27:09Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T02:27:44Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-25T02:39:03Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T02:46:00Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-25T02:47:49Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T02:54:42Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-25T02:55:14Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-25T02:57:23Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-25T02:59:28Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T03:02:39Z Guest52692 quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2017-01-25T03:02:39Z itruslove quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2017-01-25T03:06:28Z scottj quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-25T03:09:27Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-25T03:11:41Z mordocai quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.2+deb1 - http://znc.in)
2017-01-25T03:12:50Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T03:18:58Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-25T03:19:01Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T03:22:01Z bugrum quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T03:25:01Z raynold[away] is now known as raynold[here]
2017-01-25T03:25:39Z travv0` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T03:27:50Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T03:28:47Z baconicsynergy quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T03:29:28Z ebrasca: I am reading Mezzano.
2017-01-25T03:29:32Z giraffe joined #lisp
2017-01-25T03:29:42Z ebrasca: But I do't understand this:
2017-01-25T03:29:45Z ebrasca: (setf (values (current-completion-start stream)
2017-01-25T03:29:45Z ebrasca:                   (current-completion-end stream)
2017-01-25T03:29:45Z ebrasca:                   (completions stream))
2017-01-25T03:29:45Z ebrasca:           (compute-completions stream (buffer stream) (cursor-position stream)))
2017-01-25T03:29:50Z giraffe is now known as Guest5935
2017-01-25T03:30:54Z ebrasca: (setf (values ...))
2017-01-25T03:31:50Z ebrasca: (setf (values ...) ...)
2017-01-25T03:32:16Z loke: ebrasca: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_values.htm
2017-01-25T03:32:20Z loke: It's all described there.
2017-01-25T03:32:34Z loke: Which links to this:
2017-01-25T03:32:35Z loke: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/05_abc.htm
2017-01-25T03:33:33Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T03:34:04Z itruslove joined #lisp
2017-01-25T03:35:05Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T03:35:39Z ebrasca: loke: Thanks you.
2017-01-25T03:36:33Z akkad: what is the inverse of (= a b)?
2017-01-25T03:36:39Z loke: ebrasca: It's a pretty esoteric feature, and I've never actually used it. Even if I came across a case where I could use it, I'd probably use MULTIPLE-VALUE-BIND with explicit assignments anyway.
2017-01-25T03:36:49Z loke: akkad: (b a =)
2017-01-25T03:37:07Z akkad: like if I want (!= a b)
2017-01-25T03:37:15Z loke: akkad: (/= a b)
2017-01-25T03:37:23Z akkad: ahh thanks.
2017-01-25T03:37:35Z loke: In APL it's a≠b
2017-01-25T03:38:01Z loke: There is definitely an æsthetic beauty to APL.
2017-01-25T03:40:30Z loke: akkad: You know you could simply have looked up http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_eq_sle.htm right?
2017-01-25T03:41:44Z drmeister: Bike - are you online?
2017-01-25T03:42:09Z akkad: loke: i use sbcl, not lispworks, as this is freenode.
2017-01-25T03:42:41Z loke: akkad: The hyperspec has nothing to do with Lispworks, except for the fact that the web version is hosted there.
2017-01-25T03:42:54Z drmeister: or beach, although I expect you might be away for a few days.
2017-01-25T03:42:56Z loke: It's the standard, and all lisps implement it.
2017-01-25T03:43:21Z drmeister: I wanted to ask if you recall what sort of invalidation needs to happen with beach's generic function dispatch method.
2017-01-25T03:44:20Z drmeister: I recall:  (DEFCLASS FOO ...) --> remove call history entries that involve that class for all generic functions that have call histories that involve that class and invalidate those generic function dispatchers.
2017-01-25T03:44:36Z drmeister: (DEFMETHOD FOO ...) -> invalidate the generic function for the method.
2017-01-25T03:44:40Z drmeister: Was there anything else?
2017-01-25T03:45:16Z loke: drmeister: That means that calls to DEFCLASS are not thread-safe, does it not?
2017-01-25T03:47:01Z drmeister: beach has a scheme for copying and updating the class information to make it thread safe.
2017-01-25T03:47:07Z Bike: i'm here, but i'm unfamiliar with that stuff.
2017-01-25T03:47:09Z ebrasca: loke: it is equal to :
2017-01-25T03:47:11Z ebrasca: (multiple-value-bind (a b c) (compute-completions stream (buffer stream) (cursor-position stream))
2017-01-25T03:47:11Z ebrasca:       (setf (values (current-completion-start stream)
2017-01-25T03:47:11Z ebrasca: 		    a
2017-01-25T03:47:11Z ebrasca: 		    (current-completion-end stream)
2017-01-25T03:47:14Z ebrasca: 		    b
2017-01-25T03:47:18Z ebrasca: 		    (completions stream)
2017-01-25T03:47:21Z ebrasca: 		    c)))
2017-01-25T03:47:35Z loke: ebrasca: Please dont' flood.
2017-01-25T03:47:38Z drmeister: Bike: Ok, no problem.  Otherwise I'll have to wait for beach.
2017-01-25T03:47:54Z drmeister: I'm pretty sure it was just those two things.
2017-01-25T03:48:04Z loke: drmeister: Ah yes, of course. It's updated rarely enough that using copy-on-write for that makes perfect sense.
2017-01-25T03:48:13Z drmeister: There isn't anything else I can think of doing to a generic function to cause the dispatcher to become invalid.
2017-01-25T03:48:15Z ebrasca: loke: ok
2017-01-25T03:48:55Z drmeister: loke: What is it about rare updates and copy on write that make sense?
2017-01-25T03:49:06Z drmeister: It's expensive?
2017-01-25T03:49:44Z loke: drmeister: Well, a copy is expensive. But if the update doesn't happen very often it makes perfect sense sionce you can avoid the lock and simply use an atomic update.
2017-01-25T03:52:39Z pillton: drmeister: When you say "defmethod" do you implicitly mean add-method and remove-method?
2017-01-25T03:52:49Z ebrasca: loke: are this equal http://ix.io/1QZl ?
2017-01-25T03:53:30Z loke: ebrasca: no
2017-01-25T03:54:45Z yixiaozi joined #lisp
2017-01-25T03:55:15Z ebrasca: loke: if I delete values from first ?
2017-01-25T03:56:49Z cpape`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T03:57:01Z ebrasca: loke: Ok I understans. Thanks you.
2017-01-25T03:59:26Z loke: ebrasca: (let ((x (list 1 2 3))) (setf (values (first x) (second x)) (values 10 20)) x) → (10 20 3)
2017-01-25T04:00:59Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-25T04:03:18Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T04:06:20Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-25T04:07:46Z rumbler31: drmeister: what exactly are you up to that you're running into these questions?
2017-01-25T04:09:19Z ebrasca: loke: Thanks you and good nigth.
2017-01-25T04:11:52Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T04:17:48Z vtomole joined #lisp
2017-01-25T04:21:48Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T04:22:49Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-25T04:29:31Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-25T04:29:39Z drmeister: pilton: You make an excellent point.
2017-01-25T04:29:47Z drmeister: add-method and remove-method
2017-01-25T04:30:20Z drmeister: rumbler31: I'm developing a new Common Lisp implementation and the generic function dispatch that I inherited from ECL is not fast enough.
2017-01-25T04:34:33Z drmeister: I've integrated the cleavir compiler into Clasp, the CL implementation that I'm developing. Cleavir uses a LOT of generic functions.  ECL's GF dispatch came from a time when people thought it wouldn't be used much.
2017-01-25T04:35:39Z Bike: it would be nice if that gf freezing thingie worked out
2017-01-25T04:38:40Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-25T04:40:03Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-25T04:41:22Z drmeister: This is more general, it's faster and doesn't compromise interactivity and programmability.
2017-01-25T04:41:26Z rtm1046 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T04:41:37Z drmeister: There's nothing that says the gf freezing thingie can't still be used.
2017-01-25T04:42:14Z Bike: i know, it's just kind of worrying that this is enough of a problem
2017-01-25T04:42:37Z Bike: i kind of figured thinLTO would be more of a problem for compile times, honestly.
2017-01-25T04:49:51Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-25T04:52:59Z space_otter joined #lisp
2017-01-25T04:57:13Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-25T04:57:33Z arquebus joined #lisp
2017-01-25T04:58:49Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-25T04:59:03Z Cookly joined #lisp
2017-01-25T05:00:34Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-25T05:01:26Z Cookly left #lisp
2017-01-25T05:01:43Z smokeink quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T05:02:09Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-25T05:11:12Z araujo quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2017-01-25T05:12:18Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-25T05:12:18Z araujo quit (Changing host)
2017-01-25T05:12:18Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-25T05:12:36Z yixiaozi quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-25T05:19:01Z Harag quit (Quit: Harag)
2017-01-25T05:20:26Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-25T05:21:04Z mattrepl quit (Quit: mattrepl)
2017-01-25T05:22:14Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-25T05:27:55Z arquebus quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T05:33:19Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-25T05:34:22Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-25T05:39:20Z safe quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T05:39:24Z Harag quit (Quit: Harag)
2017-01-25T05:44:28Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-25T06:02:01Z rtm1046 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T06:03:43Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-25T06:12:26Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-25T06:14:09Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T06:16:47Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-25T06:18:41Z ozzloy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-25T06:19:44Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2017-01-25T06:19:44Z ozzloy quit (Changing host)
2017-01-25T06:19:44Z ozzloy joined #lisp
2017-01-25T06:23:50Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-25T06:26:47Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-25T06:31:24Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T06:31:36Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T06:35:14Z jleija quit (Quit: "good night everyone")
2017-01-25T06:35:29Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-25T06:45:32Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-25T06:45:53Z beach: drmeister: I was just in Paris for the day.  I was back in time to serve dinner to my (admittedly small) family.
2017-01-25T06:49:24Z myrkraverk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T06:51:48Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T06:54:20Z beach: flip214: Don't worry, there will be a deadline extension.  And then, there will be a couple of weeks where the referees contemplate their decision, during which time it is possible to submit updates.  Following that, if the paper is accepted, there is even more time to submit the final version.
2017-01-25T06:56:08Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-25T07:02:47Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2017-01-25T07:09:55Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T07:15:12Z dmiles quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T07:15:12Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T07:16:22Z rogersm joined #lisp
2017-01-25T07:20:58Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-25T07:24:32Z rogersm quit (Quit: rogersm)
2017-01-25T07:27:02Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-25T07:27:48Z dmiles joined #lisp
2017-01-25T07:31:21Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-25T07:33:53Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-25T07:35:18Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-25T07:35:20Z flip214: beach: awwww, that takes all the fun out of it ;)
2017-01-25T07:35:59Z beach: flip214: Sorry. :)
2017-01-25T07:36:13Z beach: flip214: I'll probably give you some more stuff later today.
2017-01-25T07:36:28Z flip214: beach: no problem.
2017-01-25T07:37:09Z flip214: can't promise any (WITH-REVIEW ...) deadlines anyway.
2017-01-25T07:37:18Z beach: I know.
2017-01-25T07:37:35Z beach: flip214: Yesterday, I was in Paris all day.  Today, my favorite co-author (idurand) is coming over for lunch and work.  The least I can do is to feed her something good, so I need to go to the store and then spend some time in the kitchen.
2017-01-25T07:38:05Z flip214: sounds like fun
2017-01-25T07:38:17Z flip214: me too, wife's working, so I've got the kids.
2017-01-25T07:38:26Z beach: I see, yes.
2017-01-25T07:41:43Z macdavid314 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T07:43:56Z erguven joined #lisp
2017-01-25T07:44:10Z macdavid313 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T07:44:10Z macdavid314 is now known as macdavid313
2017-01-25T07:54:33Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-25T07:54:33Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-25T07:54:33Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-25T07:55:38Z alexherbo2 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-25T07:56:30Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:00:05Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:04:48Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:06:40Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:07:43Z pvaneynd_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:08:04Z xaotuk joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:09:24Z d4ryus3 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:09:32Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:10:08Z jmarciano joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:10:26Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-25T08:12:53Z d4ryus2 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-25T08:16:35Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-25T08:18:33Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:22:21Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-25T08:22:23Z o1e9 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:23:21Z Beetny joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:24:07Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:28:37Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:29:52Z froggey joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:31:37Z xaotuk quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-25T08:34:37Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:36:22Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-25T08:40:53Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:48:30Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:49:42Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T08:51:05Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-25T08:52:22Z pvaneynd_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-25T08:52:27Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:55:35Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-25T08:59:05Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-25T09:01:12Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:01:30Z alexherbo2 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:02:41Z eschatologist quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T09:02:51Z phoe__ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:03:08Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:05:41Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:06:50Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T09:10:41Z defaultxr quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-25T09:11:55Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T09:13:11Z eschatologist joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:13:20Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:14:54Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:16:42Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T09:17:06Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:18:54Z snits` joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:22:11Z flip214: I can set *trace-output* globally to a (make-broadcast-stream), and only bind it to some stream within an interesting thread.
2017-01-25T09:22:26Z flip214: but can I also avoid all the printing overhead in the non-affected threads?
2017-01-25T09:22:29Z snits quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T09:22:50Z flip214: Ie. trace functions (and/or all in a package) only within one thread?
2017-01-25T09:23:23Z snits` is now known as snits
2017-01-25T09:23:38Z flip214: SBCL has (TRACE :CONDITION ...) which I could use, right; but is there something similar for other implementations as well?
2017-01-25T09:25:02Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:25:34Z easye: flip214: Nothing consistent here beyond simple ANSI TRACE across implementations as far as I know.
2017-01-25T09:25:53Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-25T09:26:08Z flip214: easye: would be a nice feature for ABCL, too, wouldn't it? (TRACE :CONDITION ...)
2017-01-25T09:26:20Z easye: Sure, I'll accept a patch...
2017-01-25T09:26:42Z flip214: harharhar
2017-01-25T09:32:13Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:33:11Z aries_liuxueng joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:36:33Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T09:36:39Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:37:02Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T09:37:03Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:37:49Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T09:37:51Z whiteline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T09:39:29Z whiteline joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:39:42Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T09:40:22Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-25T09:41:30Z aries_liuxueng quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T09:43:03Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:43:26Z DrCode quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-25T09:45:08Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-25T09:48:51Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-25T09:57:18Z jmarciano quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T09:59:00Z DrCode joined #lisp
2017-01-25T10:01:05Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T10:01:10Z pvaneynd_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T10:03:54Z pvaneynd_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T10:04:29Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T10:05:40Z nopf joined #lisp
2017-01-25T10:08:52Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-25T10:11:25Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-25T10:13:38Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T10:14:40Z whiteline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T10:15:56Z server_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-25T10:16:40Z diogofranco joined #lisp
2017-01-25T10:21:55Z psacrifice joined #lisp
2017-01-25T10:23:22Z whiteline joined #lisp
2017-01-25T10:24:18Z alexherbo2 is now known as alex``
2017-01-25T10:26:41Z whiteline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T10:27:54Z whiteline joined #lisp
2017-01-25T10:31:01Z Harag quit (Quit: Harag)
2017-01-25T10:36:22Z whiteline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T10:36:55Z whiteline joined #lisp
2017-01-25T10:37:41Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-25T10:41:55Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-25T10:42:52Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T10:46:32Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-25T10:48:07Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-25T10:53:57Z smokeink joined #lisp
2017-01-25T10:54:44Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-25T10:54:46Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T10:56:02Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T10:57:58Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T10:58:09Z psacrifice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T11:01:20Z psacrifice joined #lisp
2017-01-25T11:02:35Z server_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T11:04:06Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-25T11:05:00Z nopf quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-25T11:08:25Z phoe__: Pffft.
2017-01-25T11:08:37Z phoe__: It looks like I got to *the* question.
2017-01-25T11:09:26Z phoe__: Spend some work on a solution that works in my case, or spend ten times more work and make my solution work for everyone else as well.
2017-01-25T11:09:30Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-25T11:09:37Z nopf joined #lisp
2017-01-25T11:10:00Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T11:10:53Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-25T11:13:57Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-25T11:15:24Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-25T11:16:30Z gavilancomun joined #lisp
2017-01-25T11:17:51Z gavilancomun left #lisp
2017-01-25T11:18:37Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-25T11:20:00Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-25T11:21:05Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-25T11:26:51Z syver joined #lisp
2017-01-25T11:35:45Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T11:37:05Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T11:42:31Z flip214: that's often the case...
2017-01-25T11:42:45Z flip214: but sometimes you find a different POV, and the difficulties just vanish.
2017-01-25T11:45:27Z hhdave quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T11:45:44Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-25T11:47:56Z syver left #lisp
2017-01-25T12:00:09Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T12:00:50Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2017-01-25T12:02:27Z psacrifice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T12:15:46Z gacepa joined #lisp
2017-01-25T12:16:07Z server_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T12:16:28Z psacrifice joined #lisp
2017-01-25T12:25:03Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-25T12:33:38Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-25T12:33:55Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-25T12:34:41Z diogo_franco joined #lisp
2017-01-25T12:38:28Z diogofranco quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-25T12:39:00Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-25T12:39:36Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-25T12:41:53Z |3b| wonders if using TYPECASE as a simple pattern matcher is a reasonable idea or not
2017-01-25T12:47:06Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-25T12:51:35Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-25T12:54:37Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-25T12:55:18Z papachan quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-25T12:56:32Z |3b| is even less sure if implementing a type that parses its arguments as a pattern specification DSL of some sort to go with the TYPECASE pattern matcher is a good idea :p
2017-01-25T12:58:49Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T12:58:58Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-25T12:59:48Z rumbler31: drmeister: thank!
2017-01-25T12:59:53Z rumbler31: ks*!
2017-01-25T13:01:18Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T13:04:40Z psacrifice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T13:09:47Z raynold[here] quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-25T13:17:37Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T13:18:43Z macdavid313 quit (Quit: macdavid313)
2017-01-25T13:20:47Z aceluck joined #lisp
2017-01-25T13:22:19Z jdz: |3b|: there's a paper about this that was presented in last ELS.
2017-01-25T13:25:27Z |3b|: "Type Checking on Heterogeneous Sequences in Common Lisp" ?
2017-01-25T13:25:59Z jdz: Yes, that rings some bells (I did not attend the event).
2017-01-25T13:26:00Z |3b| watches video
2017-01-25T13:28:41Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-25T13:31:04Z psacrifice joined #lisp
2017-01-25T13:32:55Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T13:38:42Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-25T13:41:49Z |3b|: yeah, looks similar, though i wasn't thinking of quite that complex patterns :)
2017-01-25T13:42:25Z |3b| only needs something like (cons (member ...) (cons (member ...)))
2017-01-25T13:44:10Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-25T13:45:42Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-25T13:49:32Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-25T13:49:53Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-25T14:00:17Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-25T14:04:11Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-25T14:05:39Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-25T14:06:53Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T14:09:58Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-25T14:10:05Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T14:13:40Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-25T14:15:43Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T14:16:18Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-25T14:16:24Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-25T14:16:34Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-25T14:16:57Z psacrifice quit
2017-01-25T14:25:14Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-25T14:26:02Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T14:29:19Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T14:42:23Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-25T14:43:11Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-25T14:45:48Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-25T14:45:49Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Changing host)
2017-01-25T14:45:49Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-25T14:50:13Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-25T14:50:30Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-25T14:50:39Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-25T14:51:33Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-25T14:51:58Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-25T14:52:53Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-25T14:56:51Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T14:56:51Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T14:57:13Z nowhereman quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-25T14:57:22Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-25T14:57:25Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T15:00:54Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T15:02:05Z pvaneynd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T15:09:02Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T15:13:15Z [0x8b30cc]_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T15:13:15Z flak joined #lisp
2017-01-25T15:14:26Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T15:14:53Z [0x8b30cc]_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-25T15:16:00Z rippa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-25T15:20:06Z flak quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-25T15:20:22Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-25T15:20:29Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-25T15:27:32Z jamtho quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T15:27:33Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-25T15:27:35Z milanj joined #lisp
2017-01-25T15:27:56Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-25T15:28:11Z smokeink quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-25T15:29:50Z gacepa quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-25T15:30:10Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-25T15:32:46Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-25T15:33:02Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T15:39:21Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-25T15:40:32Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-25T15:40:58Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-25T15:41:44Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T15:42:04Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-25T15:45:41Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T15:51:08Z borodust quit (Quit: Leavin')
2017-01-25T15:54:10Z rumbler31: |3b|: I figure from our discussion yesterday that it would be elucidating to study how CL can actually be implemented.  Got any recommendations in terms of material?
2017-01-25T15:56:33Z Xach: rumbler31: lisp in small pieces is a good book on the challenges and strategies
2017-01-25T15:56:40Z |3b| has heard 'lisp in small pieces' is a good book (possibly scheme rather than CL though), though i haven't read it myself, tends to be expensive :/
2017-01-25T15:56:48Z neuri8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T15:56:59Z Xach: it discusses (some of) the issues of CL also
2017-01-25T15:57:15Z Xach: Anatomy of Lisp is an older book that some have used as a basis for implementation
2017-01-25T15:58:00Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-25T15:58:09Z neuri8 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T15:58:22Z rumbler31: so for lisps that compile, are symbols in code turned into pointer lookups?
2017-01-25T15:59:11Z dlowe: not necessarily. You can also keep a cross-reference table of the places a symbol is referenced.
2017-01-25T15:59:28Z dlowe: so when a function is redefined, say, you change all the references to point to the new place
2017-01-25T15:59:50Z |3b|: symbols tend to not be involved at all for lexical accesses, so it might for example just access a stack location or register directly
2017-01-25T16:00:21Z |3b|: for dynamic variables, it stores an actual symbol object (or reference to one or whatever) and uses that to look up the current binding
2017-01-25T16:00:22Z rumbler31: hmm
2017-01-25T16:00:59Z |3b|: (at least conceptually, there are lots of ways to get the desired effect)
2017-01-25T16:02:03Z rumbler31: up until yesterday, I assumed that the symbol string was parsed for comparisons to be completed, but I guess by the time we get past the intern call from read, that isn't necessary anymore.
2017-01-25T16:02:22Z Faed: clear
2017-01-25T16:03:03Z rumbler31: it would only be such because the repl is where you might suddenly create new symbols that the scan needs to be done, so if you make a form with symbols that haven't been interned yet then you pay the cost.  and I guess if you do the same form there is no interning that takes place but you still have to pay the cost to string scan
2017-01-25T16:03:34Z |3b|: lisp is defined in terms of actual symbol objects and lists (and other objects like arrays or whatever). it also specifies a separate process for converting text into the symbols+lists representation, but the text of the source is not involved after that
2017-01-25T16:04:01Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-25T16:04:10Z |3b|: you could theoretically have an editor that worked on symbols/lists directly and didn't actually store the text form anywhere
2017-01-25T16:04:41Z |3b|: (well, not completely theoretical, i think they more or less already exist)
2017-01-25T16:05:09Z rumbler31: i remember a slime presentation where I think something like that was suggested
2017-01-25T16:05:48Z |3b|: as far as the lisp implementation evaluating the code (in the form of lists+symbols), the names of the symbols don't matter
2017-01-25T16:06:05Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T16:06:25Z |3b|: (they are normal objects that persist to when the code is actually evaluated, so user code might still care about the names)
2017-01-25T16:07:07Z rumbler31: but unless you intern new symbols, you're probably not dealing with an actual string... uh
2017-01-25T16:07:08Z rumbler31: form
2017-01-25T16:07:33Z |3b|: the process of converting text (from source or repl) may involve creating new symbols if it can't find one that matches the text in the current package
2017-01-25T16:07:50Z rumbler31: right
2017-01-25T16:07:53Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:10:52Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T16:14:13Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:15:25Z neuri8 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-25T16:16:32Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:17:15Z tarragon joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:17:16Z tarragon: hei
2017-01-25T16:17:26Z tarragon: such a thing as coreutils in lisp?
2017-01-25T16:17:39Z neuri8 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:17:43Z dlowe: tarragon: nope.
2017-01-25T16:17:50Z tarragon: :/
2017-01-25T16:18:04Z phoe__: tarragon: what exactly do you want?
2017-01-25T16:18:05Z tarragon: that'd be kinda cool, those utilities arent really hard
2017-01-25T16:18:15Z dlowe: tarragon: go for it :)
2017-01-25T16:18:16Z tarragon: cp, dir, ls, sort, etc
2017-01-25T16:18:28Z phoe__: uh
2017-01-25T16:18:36Z phoe__: these functionalities already exist
2017-01-25T16:18:44Z mrottenkolber: any idea what this could mean? https://gist.github.com/ioannad/bbbcf58575b107231a1cf2c2c84e1233 works on my machine with the same dist/ccl version, running out of ideas
2017-01-25T16:19:02Z tarragon: phoe__: where at?
2017-01-25T16:20:04Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T16:20:06Z mrottenkolber: (“Only EQ hash tables can be weak.” when trying to load CL+SSL)
2017-01-25T16:20:20Z phoe__: UIOP:COPY-FILE, CL:DIRECTORY, CL:DIRECTORY, CL:SORT, etc.
2017-01-25T16:20:53Z dlowe: phoe__: he means for people who use a shell, not just lispers.
2017-01-25T16:21:25Z phoe__: dlowe: why can't he use GNU coreutils if he uses a shell then?
2017-01-25T16:21:30Z phoe__: I mean, why reimplement it in Lisp?
2017-01-25T16:21:38Z phoe__: shell is C world.
2017-01-25T16:21:47Z dlowe: phoe__: Because Lisp is The Best[tm] is my guess
2017-01-25T16:22:03Z tarragon: yeah, lisp coreutils that I can use on linux.
2017-01-25T16:22:25Z dlowe: There's a coreutils rewrite in Rust that seems better aligned
2017-01-25T16:22:43Z phoe__: mrottenkolber: ouch. this looks like http://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter16.5.html CCL limitation
2017-01-25T16:22:52Z phoe__: mrottenkolber: but it is weird, https://common-lisp.net/project/cl-test-grid/library/cl+ssl.html
2017-01-25T16:22:56Z dlowe: but spinning up a whole heavyweight lisp image to list a directory doesn't seem great.
2017-01-25T16:23:18Z mrottenkolber: phoe__: especially since it loads on another machine with the same setup
2017-01-25T16:23:30Z tarragon: dlowe: it dont?
2017-01-25T16:23:30Z phoe__: mrottenkolber: this seems weird. CL+SSL seems to build on CCL.
2017-01-25T16:23:31Z mrottenkolber: phoe__: we tried deleting the fasl cache, etc
2017-01-25T16:24:07Z dlowe: tarragon: your 'ls' binary will come with a free lisp compiler without some work.
2017-01-25T16:24:30Z mrottenkolber: phoe__: that’s the really old outdated CCL manual by the way
2017-01-25T16:24:39Z phoe__: mrottenkolber: ow
2017-01-25T16:24:55Z dlowe: but mostly a lisp coreutils doesn't exist because by the time you know enough lisp to write it, you don't really care anymore
2017-01-25T16:24:55Z phoe__: but, uh
2017-01-25T16:25:00Z phoe__: :HASH-FUNCTION -1
2017-01-25T16:25:00Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-25T16:25:05Z PuercoPop: mrottenkolber: does trivial garbage work when loaded alone?
2017-01-25T16:25:16Z phoe__: ^
2017-01-25T16:25:19Z mrottenkolber: phoe__: yes I found that weird too
2017-01-25T16:25:20Z PuercoPop: ej (trivial-garbage:make-weak-hash-table :weakness :key)
2017-01-25T16:25:41Z phoe__: and test all the usual hash functions, so #'EQ #'EQL #'EQUAL #'EQUALP
2017-01-25T16:25:43Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:25:49Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-25T16:25:56Z ioa joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:25:58Z tarragon: phoe__: how did the first lisp machines work then? login right into the compiler?? no shell, etc??
2017-01-25T16:26:17Z |3b|: mrottenkolber: :test -1 ?
2017-01-25T16:26:23Z PuercoPop: phoe__: you can't specify anything other than eq in CCL.  https://github.com/trivial-garbage/trivial-garbage/blob/master/trivial-garbage.lisp#L229
2017-01-25T16:26:26Z phoe__: tarragon: read up on Open Genera.
2017-01-25T16:26:42Z jackdaniel: tarragon: repl is kind of shell
2017-01-25T16:27:05Z drmeister: ECL and a Clasp don't supply CLOS:CLASS-DIRECT-METHODS  - is that correct?
2017-01-25T16:27:41Z drmeister: This is something that closer-mop would provide?
2017-01-25T16:27:43Z jackdaniel: symbol isn't defined on my image, so it seems you are correct
2017-01-25T16:27:46Z phoe__: PuercoPop: got it. Then what does this thing attempt to create? A hash-table with :HASH-FUNCTION -1?
2017-01-25T16:28:07Z jackdaniel: clos doesn't have class-direct-methods too
2017-01-25T16:28:12Z jackdaniel: s/clos/closer-mop/
2017-01-25T16:28:14Z |3b|: mrottenkolber: i'd try clearing fasl cache
2017-01-25T16:28:17Z jackdaniel: is it part of mop?
2017-01-25T16:28:35Z drmeister: It's described as a class accessor in AMOP
2017-01-25T16:29:02Z drmeister: It would be something that would need to be updated when methods are added and removed.
2017-01-25T16:29:15Z phoe__: |3b|: he cleared it
2017-01-25T16:29:29Z drmeister: I'm trying to get a list of all generic-functions in the system.
2017-01-25T16:29:56Z drmeister: I'm adding code from AMOP and discovering things that are missing that the code requires.
2017-01-25T16:29:58Z phoe__: drmeister: where in the AMOP?
2017-01-25T16:30:02Z jackdaniel: drmeister: I don't have amop, but I can't find this symbol in online resources
2017-01-25T16:30:22Z ioa: |3b|: deleting the .cache folder didn't work (issue is on my side)
2017-01-25T16:30:23Z drmeister: Page 18, 285, 50
2017-01-25T16:30:31Z jackdaniel: and the fact that it's not part of closer-mop is pretty strong indicator too
2017-01-25T16:31:22Z jackdaniel: also, what is a class direct method anyway?
2017-01-25T16:31:24Z drmeister is confused about what AMOP describes and what is part of the MOP.
2017-01-25T16:31:53Z drmeister: class-direct-method is an accessor that should return the methods that use the class as a specializer.
2017-01-25T16:31:54Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:32:02Z phoe__: drmeister: AMOP, page 285
2017-01-25T16:32:06Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T16:32:18Z jackdaniel: maybe specializer-direct-methods ?
2017-01-25T16:32:19Z phoe__: if it's as simple as an accessor, then you have its definitino there.
2017-01-25T16:32:44Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-25T16:32:45Z phoe__: It is at about 80% of the page.
2017-01-25T16:33:14Z drmeister: Yeah - but it's not in ECL CL code
2017-01-25T16:33:27Z mrottenkolber: ioa: did you try (ql:quickload :trivial-garbage) and (trivial-garbage:make-weak-hash-table :weakness :key) ?
2017-01-25T16:33:43Z drmeister: Hmm, specializer-direct-methods provides the same thing.
2017-01-25T16:33:49Z drmeister: What is MOP and what isn't?
2017-01-25T16:34:05Z jackdaniel: specializer-direct-methods is part of c2mop, I would follow that lead
2017-01-25T16:34:11Z jackdaniel: that said, I've got to go :)
2017-01-25T16:34:17Z drmeister: What is c2mop?
2017-01-25T16:34:29Z jackdaniel: closer-mop (portability layer)
2017-01-25T16:34:34Z drmeister: Oh
2017-01-25T16:34:35Z jackdaniel: closer 2 mop is a package nickname
2017-01-25T16:34:53Z drmeister: Thank you.
2017-01-25T16:35:04Z drmeister: Could anyone explain what is MOP vs what is described in AMOP.
2017-01-25T16:35:19Z phoe__: drmeister: https://github.com/slyrus/abcl/blob/04f34d4ef00ebf1a8ef16fb5b86e83ba40098798/src/org/armedbear/lisp/clos.lisp#L4415
2017-01-25T16:35:23Z phoe__: ah-ha!
2017-01-25T16:35:34Z phoe__: navigating the obscure depths of ABCL
2017-01-25T16:35:43Z phoe__: it looks like jackdaniel is right and these two are equivalent.
2017-01-25T16:35:51Z jackdaniel: drmeister: you may ask either beach or Pascal Costanza (not sure if he is on IRC)
2017-01-25T16:36:11Z jackdaniel: I'm sure both know the answer :)
2017-01-25T16:36:16Z ioa: mrottenkolber: i just did, it quickloads trivial-garbage fine, but then (trivial-garbage:make-weak-hash-table :weakness :key) gives the same error: https://gist.github.com/ioannad/2a1fc35f1d1a39259ffcf01f64f8020c
2017-01-25T16:36:26Z jackdaniel vanishes
2017-01-25T16:36:49Z phoe__: ioa: try specifying the function #'EQ
2017-01-25T16:37:12Z |3b|: ioa: (ql:where-is-system 'trivial-garbage) ?
2017-01-25T16:37:16Z phoe__: and then #'EQL
2017-01-25T16:37:37Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:39:55Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:41:39Z ioa: phoe__: do you mean in the place of :key?
2017-01-25T16:41:56Z _rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:42:05Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:42:14Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-25T16:42:15Z ioa: |3b|: #P"/home/ioa/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/lispbuilder-20160825-git/lispbuilder-sdl/"
2017-01-25T16:42:35Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-25T16:43:07Z |3b|: ah, that's probably the problem :/
2017-01-25T16:43:42Z |3b|: ioa: do you have any of your own asdf rules set up to look in ~/quicklisp/
2017-01-25T16:44:04Z |3b|: or to search your whole home dir
2017-01-25T16:44:22Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T16:44:24Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:44:32Z mrottenkolber: ioa: the lisp game framework you installed messed up your quicklisp
2017-01-25T16:44:54Z |3b| thought Xach blacklisted stuff like that
2017-01-25T16:45:19Z Xach: |3b|: lispbuilder-sdl does not normally have trivial-garbage in it.
2017-01-25T16:45:49Z Xach: hmm, well, it does. and it's blacklisted.
2017-01-25T16:45:50Z |3b|: hmm, github says its been there for 8 years
2017-01-25T16:45:56Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:46:01Z Xach: so there may be an asdf config tree at play
2017-01-25T16:46:05Z |3b|: ok, so back to some other search finding it as best guess
2017-01-25T16:46:15Z mrottenkolber: Xach: might be caused by a really old QL client?
2017-01-25T16:46:16Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:46:44Z mrottenkolber: ioa: what does (ql:client-version) give?
2017-01-25T16:46:44Z Xach: mrottenkolber: I don't think so. It does not appear in the system index under lispbuilder.
2017-01-25T16:47:19Z Xach: An ASDF config tree is more likely. Some other tree scan is also possible.
2017-01-25T16:47:23Z mrottenkolber: ioa: either way, quick fix would be (ql:uninstall "lispbuilder-sdl")
2017-01-25T16:47:43Z mrottenkolber: oh right
2017-01-25T16:47:53Z mrottenkolber: haha I know who's fault it is
2017-01-25T16:48:04Z Xach: Who? What? When? Where?
2017-01-25T16:48:38Z mrottenkolber: mine, I am solely responsible for the broken ASDF config on ioa’s machine
2017-01-25T16:49:10Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T16:49:12Z mrottenkolber: ioa: remember ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/ ?
2017-01-25T16:49:57Z ioa: yes, i have this: cat .config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/30-quicklisp.conf
2017-01-25T16:49:58Z ioa: (:tree "/home/ioa/quicklisp/")
2017-01-25T16:50:12Z mrottenkolber: ioa: yeah that causes the error
2017-01-25T16:50:41Z Xach: mrottenkolber: ah, that was easy!
2017-01-25T16:51:04Z mrottenkolber: ioa: try mv config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d.backup for now
2017-01-25T16:51:16Z mrottenkolber: ioa: eh, I missed a .
2017-01-25T16:51:33Z ioa: aha
2017-01-25T16:51:38Z mrottenkolber: Xach: you told me, but I wouldn't listen ;-)
2017-01-25T16:53:09Z ioa: mrottenkolber: that was it! works fine now
2017-01-25T16:54:03Z mrottenkolber: ioa: well I'm not taking any credit ;-)
2017-01-25T16:54:06Z mrottenkolber: thanks guys!
2017-01-25T16:54:10Z ioa: mrottenkolber: i just got a guest, so i ask you later what exactly was the problem with the config file ;)
2017-01-25T16:54:19Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:54:19Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-25T16:54:19Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-25T16:54:23Z ioa: thanks guys for the help!
2017-01-25T16:55:21Z mrottenkolber: ioa: long story https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-client/pull/137
2017-01-25T16:58:09Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-25T16:58:29Z mrottenkolber: Xach: (regarding the PR above) I wonder if I am looking at it from the wrong side, maybe ASDF should provide a way to "plug-in" system providers, and QL would prompt to install the QL system finder into ASDF.
2017-01-25T16:58:53Z |3b|: isn't that how it works now?
2017-01-25T17:00:06Z |3b|: QL-DIST:SYSTEM-DEFINITION-SEARCHER in asdf:*system-definition-search-functions*
2017-01-25T17:00:19Z |3b|: well, except for the prompting i guess
2017-01-25T17:03:54Z Xach: mrottenkolber: I am very sympathetic to the desire to use ql systems without loading ql, but still looking for the sweet spot of how to do it
2017-01-25T17:04:20Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-25T17:05:14Z Xach: mrottenkolber: the "bundle" system writes out an index and a small file that, when loaded, tells asdf how to load what it bundles. but that also requires positive action to prepare a bundle.
2017-01-25T17:07:32Z o1e9 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-25T17:10:43Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T17:12:23Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-25T17:19:35Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-25T17:21:09Z milanj_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T17:22:27Z azrazalea quit (Changing host)
2017-01-25T17:22:28Z azrazalea joined #lisp
2017-01-25T17:22:57Z milanj quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-25T17:23:05Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-25T17:24:52Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-25T17:25:52Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2017-01-25T17:30:14Z _rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-25T17:32:45Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-25T17:33:56Z mvilleneuve quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-25T17:34:24Z raynold[here] joined #lisp
2017-01-25T17:34:28Z loke`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T17:36:43Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T17:42:25Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-25T17:45:21Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-25T17:45:53Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-25T17:46:16Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-25T17:48:50Z h3r3tic joined #lisp
2017-01-25T17:52:36Z h3r3tic left #lisp
2017-01-25T17:57:09Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-25T17:59:22Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-25T18:01:12Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T18:08:01Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-25T18:08:48Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-25T18:15:26Z sellout- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T18:15:26Z sellout-1 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T18:18:55Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-25T18:20:22Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-25T18:20:37Z frodef joined #lisp
2017-01-25T18:22:13Z phoe__: MOP question.
2017-01-25T18:22:13Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for question..
2017-01-25T18:22:26Z phoe__: (defclass bar (foo) () (:something 42))
2017-01-25T18:22:40Z phoe__: I have a custom class initarg there, :SOMETHING.
2017-01-25T18:22:51Z phoe__: What MOP trickery is needed to make this compile?
2017-01-25T18:23:14Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-25T18:24:10Z Bike: mop ensure-class
2017-01-25T18:24:11Z specbot: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/ensure-class.html
2017-01-25T18:25:21Z Bike: well i don't see anything directly helpful
2017-01-25T18:25:43Z Bike: it says it should be passed to make-instance, i guess, so if the metaclass has the slot it'll be okay, maybe?
2017-01-25T18:28:27Z erguven quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-25T18:29:03Z aceluck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T18:29:34Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-25T18:30:15Z phoe__: I got it.
2017-01-25T18:30:30Z phoe__: I'll make a blog entry about it because it's actually not documented well enough.
2017-01-25T18:31:09Z phoe__: I mean.
2017-01-25T18:31:13Z phoe__: It's documented.
2017-01-25T18:31:27Z phoe__: But in obscure places in obscure language.
2017-01-25T18:32:17Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T18:32:39Z pvaneynd_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T18:33:17Z Bike: well did it work
2017-01-25T18:34:21Z lonjil quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2017-01-25T18:35:50Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-25T18:36:14Z milanj_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-25T18:37:02Z phoe__: Gimme a moment, Bike
2017-01-25T18:38:49Z pvaneynd_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T18:39:00Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-25T18:40:23Z phoe__: Bike: https://gist.github.com/phoe/2596490bcca9699890865704ac79ff4a
2017-01-25T18:40:33Z milanj joined #lisp
2017-01-25T18:40:52Z Bike: so yes?
2017-01-25T18:42:07Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-25T18:43:57Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T18:46:31Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-25T18:47:01Z sellout-1 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T18:48:42Z phoe__: Bike: yes.
2017-01-25T18:48:49Z Bike: cool
2017-01-25T18:53:40Z himmAllRight quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T18:54:02Z phoe__: I'm analyzing ENSURE-CLASS-USING-CLASS. I can understand :INITFORM inside a slot definition, but what is :INITFUNCTION?
2017-01-25T18:54:28Z phoe__: Is it just basically `#'(lambda () ,initform)?
2017-01-25T18:54:29Z himmAllRight joined #lisp
2017-01-25T18:54:45Z _death: yes
2017-01-25T18:54:49Z phoe__: _death: thanks.
2017-01-25T18:55:25Z phoe__: This is starting to make sense.
2017-01-25T19:04:15Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T19:05:13Z omilu quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-25T19:05:31Z cebreidian quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-25T19:06:08Z diogo_franco quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-25T19:08:14Z josh5tone quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-25T19:10:07Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-25T19:10:50Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-25T19:11:32Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-25T19:12:40Z phoe__: Okay. Off to home I run.
2017-01-25T19:12:42Z phoe__: Thanks, everyone!
2017-01-25T19:12:45Z phoe__ quit
2017-01-25T19:12:48Z cebreidian joined #lisp
2017-01-25T19:12:56Z borodust joined #lisp
2017-01-25T19:24:22Z eschatologist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T19:26:39Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-25T19:26:52Z BusFactor1 quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-25T19:26:52Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T19:29:19Z ioa quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-25T19:29:32Z ioa joined #lisp
2017-01-25T19:31:56Z eschatologist joined #lisp
2017-01-25T19:34:39Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-25T19:40:05Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-25T19:40:15Z seg_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T19:43:21Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-25T19:47:34Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T19:53:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-25T19:56:17Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T19:57:09Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-25T19:59:46Z cebreidian quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-25T20:00:10Z omilu quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T20:04:07Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-25T20:05:59Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-25T20:08:23Z cebreidian joined #lisp
2017-01-25T20:12:34Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-25T20:18:08Z tiny-steps joined #lisp
2017-01-25T20:18:16Z pvaneynd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T20:18:22Z ioa quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T20:29:46Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-25T20:36:58Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T20:37:32Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-25T20:38:08Z diogo_franco joined #lisp
2017-01-25T20:39:33Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T20:40:00Z mcrist_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T20:43:09Z S1ohy quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2017-01-25T20:49:49Z mcrist_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-25T20:52:30Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T20:53:01Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-25T20:55:56Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-25T20:56:46Z tiny-steps quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T20:57:00Z milanj joined #lisp
2017-01-25T20:58:29Z milanj quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-25T20:58:40Z tiny-steps joined #lisp
2017-01-25T21:02:49Z ruy_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T21:09:24Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-25T21:09:44Z tiny-steps quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-25T21:10:15Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-25T21:13:23Z milanj joined #lisp
2017-01-25T21:13:29Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-25T21:14:10Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T21:20:39Z milanj quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T21:26:08Z akkad: (salza2:compress-data (sb-ext:string-to-octets "asjflaskjflfkjf") 'salza2::gzip-compressor) ;; shouldn't the output be smaller than the data proper?
2017-01-25T21:27:18Z phoe_: akkad: no, why?
2017-01-25T21:27:39Z phoe_: compressed data does not need to be smaller than uncompressed one, especially for very short inputs
2017-01-25T21:28:10Z phoe_: try for a string that is (* 100 1024) characters long
2017-01-25T21:28:24Z akkad: the string size and output size are equivalent, from 1 -> 1024
2017-01-25T21:29:16Z akkad: k
2017-01-25T21:31:36Z |3b|: with salza2::deflate-compressor, you save 1 byte i think, most of the extra is probably gzip headers, checksums, etc
2017-01-25T21:31:50Z akkad: k
2017-01-25T21:32:08Z |3b|: but that is a pretty noisy string in addition to being short
2017-01-25T21:34:11Z akkad: agreed
2017-01-25T21:34:37Z rumbler31: something is telling me its bad form to do the following... (defun foo () (let ((notdone t)) (defun start-thread () (while notdone...)) (lambda (state) (with-lock-held (setf notdone state)))
2017-01-25T21:35:07Z rumbler31: this is a function that when called starts a thread and returns a function that the caller can later use to change the internal state in order to terminate the thread
2017-01-25T21:35:24Z |3b|: defun inside defun tends to be a sign of something wrong
2017-01-25T21:35:40Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-25T21:35:52Z rumbler31: i was going this way because really my inner start thread function would wrap my real function in a handler-case and I needed a way to simply restart the whole thing
2017-01-25T21:36:11Z rumbler31: seems to be that this is a use of flet or so
2017-01-25T21:36:42Z |3b|: keep in mind that the inner defun doesn't actually define a function until you call the outer function
2017-01-25T21:36:55Z |3b|: (and it redefines it every time you call it)
2017-01-25T21:37:07Z rumbler31: yea I thought of that, which was why I was going to ask what happens when I call it a second time
2017-01-25T21:37:40Z rumbler31: maybe nothing.  or in other words, its time for flet
2017-01-25T21:38:17Z rumbler31: I've learned enough about what I'm doing to realize that maybe this is what cl-async is for
2017-01-25T21:38:27Z |3b|: do you need an inner function at all there?
2017-01-25T21:38:37Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-25T21:38:48Z rumbler31: well I'm trying to figure out how to catch errors thrown by an inner form
2017-01-25T21:38:55Z rumbler31: in the simple case I want to just restart.
2017-01-25T21:39:14Z |3b|: or are you trying to have 2 functions available outside the outer functions? (one by name, other as return value)
2017-01-25T21:40:04Z rumbler31: I don't need the inner visible from outside, but it started as a standalone function that now I need to put in a thread and catch errors
2017-01-25T21:40:17Z rumbler31: ahh and I'm still missing it because the thread catching needs to be in the new thread
2017-01-25T21:41:16Z tiny-steps joined #lisp
2017-01-25T21:41:31Z rumbler31: so instead of start-thread, it would look like (bt:make-thread (lambda () (handler-case (inner-function param) (error (inner-function param....
2017-01-25T21:42:01Z rumbler31: since this bt:make-thread would be invoked inside a call to foo I guess it would need a name, or would flet suffice?
2017-01-25T21:42:47Z |3b|: you can't just put that form inside FOO without another function?
2017-01-25T21:43:06Z |3b|: calling FOO is supposed to start the thread, right?
2017-01-25T21:43:11Z rumbler31: yes
2017-01-25T21:43:58Z rumbler31: so i'm trying to provide a way for the caller to start the thread and be given a means of stopping it later.  additionally, the inner thread will encounter errors and they'll need to be handled in the thread
2017-01-25T21:44:49Z rumbler31: a handler-case will need to sit somewhere, if its in the function passed to bt:make-thread, then the handler-case will need to be able to start the inner again
2017-01-25T21:45:26Z |3b|: yeah, the error handler would be in the new thread
2017-01-25T21:45:45Z ruy_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-25T21:46:01Z rumbler31: originally the whole thing was a function that had the start thread and inner form with no name, and returned the function to change state
2017-01-25T21:46:06Z |3b|: the part that needs started might be useful to put in a separate function (flet would be fine)
2017-01-25T21:46:17Z |3b|: *eeds restarted
2017-01-25T21:46:20Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-25T21:46:45Z rumbler31: but now I need to handle errors and restart.  since in this new inner I still need a reference to the state variable, it can't be defined outside of the let
2017-01-25T21:46:53Z rumbler31: afaik
2017-01-25T21:47:01Z |3b|: right, you can put flet wherever you want
2017-01-25T21:47:17Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-25T21:47:28Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-25T21:47:34Z rumbler31: in the future, i'm spending some time on the cl-async docs....
2017-01-25T21:47:41Z |3b|: (+ 1 (flet ((\2 () 2)) (\2))) -> 3
2017-01-25T21:48:25Z |3b|: (funcall (flet ((a () 1)) #'a)) -> 1
2017-01-25T21:48:45Z |3b|: not that you should do either of those :)
2017-01-25T21:48:54Z papachan: hello, which is the best way to parse a query string?
2017-01-25T21:49:10Z |3b| would probably use a parser
2017-01-25T21:50:21Z papachan: (print (parse-query-string "a=b&c=d")) => (:a b) or (a b)
2017-01-25T21:50:52Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-25T21:51:06Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-25T21:51:28Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-25T21:52:21Z prole quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-25T21:52:52Z |3b|: ah, you mean the stuff at the end of a URI/URL? puri might do that, probably a few other libs as well
2017-01-25T21:52:55Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-25T21:54:02Z papachan: |3b| puri?
2017-01-25T21:54:33Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-25T21:54:35Z |3b|: a library for parsing URI/URL
2017-01-25T21:54:47Z papachan: OK
2017-01-25T21:54:53Z |3b|: looks like it might only extract the query part from a uri, and not parse it though
2017-01-25T21:55:01Z malice: Hi! I want to do 99 lisp problems and decided that I'll use that to learn a bit more about making CL project
2017-01-25T21:55:10Z malice: I've got this .asdf file for my 99problems: http://ix.io/1R3R
2017-01-25T21:55:29Z malice: I did (ql:quickload :99problems) and then tried to test it (asdf:test-system :99problem)
2017-01-25T21:55:34Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T21:55:36Z malice: it complained about lack of 5am. Why?
2017-01-25T21:55:52Z malice: (after I did (ql:quickload :fiveam) and then run it again, it didn't comlain about that
2017-01-25T21:55:53Z malice: )
2017-01-25T21:56:27Z |3b|: did you have fiveam installed before you quickloaded it?
2017-01-25T21:56:54Z malice: idk, but shouldn't quickloading it automatically download dependencies? Or should I quickload tests first?
2017-01-25T21:57:10Z tiny-steps quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-25T21:57:50Z |3b|: hmm, not sure how quickload handles secondary systems like that
2017-01-25T21:58:06Z malice: I am completely new to this, but I thought that it would work that way
2017-01-25T21:59:13Z Walex joined #lisp
2017-01-25T22:01:02Z malice: I confirm that quickloading fiveam works.
2017-01-25T22:01:14Z malice: (I mean, that after quickloading 5am the tests now work)
2017-01-25T22:01:48Z newbie|3 joined #lisp
2017-01-25T22:01:55Z quadresce quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-25T22:02:28Z newbie|3 is now known as h3r3tic
2017-01-25T22:03:37Z malice: Okay, now package question. I want to :use :cl and :fiveam in my package.
2017-01-25T22:03:51Z malice: BUT I also want to define "test" function and export it. However, fiveam defines its own "test" funciton.
2017-01-25T22:04:12Z malice: How can I make it not import "test" to my package?
2017-01-25T22:04:15Z malice: (from fiveam)
2017-01-25T22:04:26Z _death: :shadow
2017-01-25T22:04:35Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-25T22:05:24Z malice: thanks :)
2017-01-25T22:05:35Z k-stz joined #lisp
2017-01-25T22:06:47Z rumbler31: so... it doesn't seem like errors are being caught down in the thread....
2017-01-25T22:08:45Z h3r3tic quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-25T22:09:37Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T22:10:11Z rumbler31: so we have (defun foo (param) (flet ((bar (param)...)) (make-thread (lambda () (handler-case (bar param) (error () (bar param)))))
2017-01-25T22:10:52Z rumbler31: i thought I saw an instance where bar param restart actually occurred, but I still landed in the debugger with an uncaught error later
2017-01-25T22:11:10Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-25T22:12:23Z ioa joined #lisp
2017-01-25T22:15:07Z rumbler31: yea... so
2017-01-25T22:16:27Z rumbler31: the handler-case is definitely wrapping the call i'm trying to catch errors from going beyond
2017-01-25T22:17:02Z rumbler31: or is it the case that if, in handling the first error and restarting appropriately, that any new errors go up the chain
2017-01-25T22:17:34Z phoe_: What is a CLOS/MOP way to "makunbound" a class?
2017-01-25T22:18:01Z rumbler31: like if (handler-bind (foo-errors) (error (foo-errors)) the 2nd call will i guess not be handled by the handler-bind.....
2017-01-25T22:18:08Z phoe_: Like, when I go (defclass foo () ()), then I cannot later go (defclass foo () () (:metaclass baz)) because Lisp will growl at me.
2017-01-25T22:21:37Z malice: phoe_:what error do you get?
2017-01-25T22:22:30Z _death: (setf (find-class 'foo) nil)
2017-01-25T22:25:05Z phoe_: _death: thanks.
2017-01-25T22:25:27Z phoe_: ...time to define #'CMAKUNBOUND, I think
2017-01-25T22:26:12Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-25T22:29:43Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T22:30:49Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T22:33:01Z phoe_: Night, #parens!
2017-01-25T22:42:50Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-25T22:42:57Z msmith quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-25T22:48:17Z impulse joined #lisp
2017-01-25T22:50:02Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T22:50:08Z rumbler31: the appropriate thing to do is wrap the handler-case in a loop and simply fallthrough if an error is caught
2017-01-25T22:50:33Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-25T22:52:22Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-25T22:56:22Z rumbler31: nope...
2017-01-25T22:56:22Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-25T22:56:46Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T22:57:52Z rumbler31: ok i can't seem to understand why my errors aren't being caught
2017-01-25T22:59:09Z rumbler31: at this point my handler-case is (h-c (thing) (t (thing))
2017-01-25T23:00:57Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-25T23:04:10Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T23:05:14Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-25T23:09:08Z pjb: rumbler31: check the syntax for handler case clauses.
2017-01-25T23:09:49Z cebreidian quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T23:09:50Z omilu quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-25T23:10:03Z rumbler31: (handler-case (moxa-speak ip port)
2017-01-25T23:10:03Z rumbler31: 				  (t () (moxa-speak ip port)))
2017-01-25T23:10:06Z pjb: Also, it's quite bad in general to handle t.   (handler-case (error "booh") (error () 'caught)) #| --> caught |#
2017-01-25T23:10:07Z rumbler31: I typed it here fast.  the source is:
2017-01-25T23:10:30Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-25T23:10:35Z pjb: There are conditions that are not errors, and that are needed to be handled correctly by the implementation.
2017-01-25T23:10:55Z antoszka: rumbler31: use paste.lisp.org for code snippets, please
2017-01-25T23:11:05Z rumbler31: sorry for the multiline... source is above.  I'm trying to catch errors that usocket and another library throw, I thought error would be enough to match but wanted to be sure it wasn't me mis-matching
2017-01-25T23:12:30Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-25T23:12:35Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T23:13:05Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-25T23:13:26Z rumbler31: pjb: I see
2017-01-25T23:14:40Z rumbler31: well I still am not convinced that its getting caught at that form
2017-01-25T23:16:12Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-25T23:17:34Z rumbler31: nm...
2017-01-25T23:18:04Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2017-01-25T23:18:15Z rumbler31: putting the (thing call inside the form to run when an error is caught allows the next error to escape.  I didn't write it properly
2017-01-25T23:18:29Z pjb: Of course.  It is caught. But you don't know it, because you do the same thing in the handler.
2017-01-25T23:18:39Z rumbler31: yes
2017-01-25T23:18:44Z cebreidian joined #lisp
2017-01-25T23:20:44Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-25T23:23:56Z pjb: You can also add a counter.
2017-01-25T23:27:10Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-25T23:29:18Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-25T23:32:21Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-25T23:32:21Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T23:39:01Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-25T23:39:42Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-25T23:40:14Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T23:42:20Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-25T23:43:15Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-25T23:43:23Z rumbler31: thats next.  For now, now that I know exactly what is where and how it all works, I know where to make such changes.
2017-01-25T23:44:28Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-25T23:48:31Z strelox quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-25T23:55:35Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-25T23:57:19Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-25T23:57:55Z ski quit (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
2017-01-25T23:58:58Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T00:00:21Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-26T00:03:46Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-26T00:04:47Z jibanes quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T00:06:57Z jibanes joined #lisp
2017-01-26T00:07:09Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T00:07:39Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-26T00:08:45Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T00:08:46Z space_otter joined #lisp
2017-01-26T00:09:01Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-26T00:10:49Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-26T00:12:58Z papachan quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-26T00:13:10Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T00:16:56Z ski joined #lisp
2017-01-26T00:21:50Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T00:23:53Z BusFacto_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T00:24:50Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-26T00:25:15Z burton` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T00:26:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-26T00:26:47Z BusFactor1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T00:38:43Z safe quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-26T00:41:35Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-26T00:41:47Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T00:46:22Z lonjil joined #lisp
2017-01-26T00:50:18Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T01:00:02Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T01:04:49Z vibs29 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T01:06:34Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T01:10:37Z vibs29 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T01:14:59Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-26T01:15:15Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T01:17:18Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T01:17:41Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-26T01:22:12Z jibanes is now known as cortana
2017-01-26T01:24:10Z codemac joined #lisp
2017-01-26T01:25:13Z codemac: Does anyone vendor their third party code?
2017-01-26T01:27:20Z cortana is now known as jibanes
2017-01-26T01:28:32Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-26T01:28:45Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-26T01:29:05Z White_Flame: codemac: I think most people who do Lisp commercially nowadays tend to either do contract work, or sell products, not lisp code libraries
2017-01-26T01:29:14Z White_Flame: (if I interpret your question correctly)
2017-01-26T01:30:18Z codemac: ah! no, I worded it poorly, but thank you for the information.
2017-01-26T01:30:49Z codemac: White_Flame: I more mean, I want to download other people's code, and include it in my code's repository to ease code distribution, but I'm not sure how to accomplish that as I'm new to the common lisp ecosystem
2017-01-26T01:32:28Z White_Flame: quicklisp
2017-01-26T01:32:41Z White_Flame: minion: tell codemac about quicklisp
2017-01-26T01:32:43Z minion: quicklisp: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/quicklisp
2017-01-26T01:34:03Z codemac: quicklisp seems to store the packages globally per user, not per project.. I want to store different dependencies per project?
2017-01-26T01:34:38Z White_Flame: then you need to get more into ASDF, which is the local package definition/loading system Quicklisp is based on
2017-01-26T01:34:42Z White_Flame: but just use quicklisp first
2017-01-26T01:34:47Z codemac: ok
2017-01-26T01:35:01Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-26T01:35:39Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-26T01:37:32Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-26T01:38:09Z aeth: codemac: What you should do at first is add a link to your project's directory in ~/quicklisp/local-projects and write a foo.asd ASDF definition file at the top level of the directory that you are linking there. Then you can develop on it with (ql:quickload :foo) where your project is called foo, and quicklisp will automatically handle your dependencies.
2017-01-26T01:38:20Z aeth: It's a little harder when it comes time to package
2017-01-26T01:40:26Z aeth: (Any dependencies not in Quicklisp can also be handled via Quicklisp by a link to its directory from the local-projects directory)
2017-01-26T01:41:07Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-26T01:42:32Z aeth: Iirc, there are several, implementation-specific ways to package a Lisp executable. I think that they generally involve packaging the whole Lisp runtime, which does increase executable size. I cannot help there, though, because I haven't gotten around to distributing executables of something written in CL yet.
2017-01-26T01:42:45Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-26T01:43:28Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T01:43:35Z aeth: If you have control over where you deploy to (e.g. an executable for a server rather than to end users) there are probably more elegant ways.
2017-01-26T01:43:59Z karswell` joined #lisp
2017-01-26T01:45:26Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T01:46:11Z DKordic joined #lisp
2017-01-26T01:47:47Z CORDIC quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T01:47:57Z White_Flame: If you want to distribute your source, it's common just to distribute your code, and have it include dependencies to the other libraries.  When other people quickload your code, it'll pull down those dependencies from quicklisp.  So you don't have to bundle the libs with your package, unless you're distributing it offline or need to guarantee lock-in to particular versions
2017-01-26T01:48:15Z codemac quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-26T01:48:25Z White_Flame: quicklisp is also continuing to mature, and will offer downloading all dependencies for a project as a bundle, and other things
2017-01-26T01:48:55Z minion quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-26T01:49:25Z derrida quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T01:49:32Z derrida joined #lisp
2017-01-26T01:49:32Z derrida quit (Changing host)
2017-01-26T01:49:32Z derrida joined #lisp
2017-01-26T01:49:41Z minion joined #lisp
2017-01-26T01:49:53Z aeth: White_Flame: Well, it depends on the target audience of the application. If it's aimed at the general public, you probably want to make an executable (actually, several, if there are multiple OSes to support).
2017-01-26T01:50:16Z aeth: But that's the main reason to make one afaik.
2017-01-26T01:51:29Z aeth: At least until someone makes a SBCL runtime graphical installer (toolbars optional) and gets everyone to install it like with Java. ;-)
2017-01-26T01:51:43Z White_Flame: codemac asked about "to ease code distribution", so I assumed source code
2017-01-26T01:55:48Z S1ohy left #lisp
2017-01-26T01:55:50Z ioa quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-26T01:56:10Z djuber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T01:56:39Z djuber joined #lisp
2017-01-26T02:02:47Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T02:02:52Z Harag1 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T02:03:00Z edgar-rft wants an intaller with an integrated video player, where he can watch youtube videos while SBCL gets installed
2017-01-26T02:03:26Z aeth: edgar-rft: as long as those videos are ads, then you have a built-in monetization method
2017-01-26T02:03:36Z aeth: you should get VC funding for your idea
2017-01-26T02:05:02Z prole: money money money ~~~ In my food, In my blood money money money ~~~
2017-01-26T02:05:14Z Harag1 is now known as Harag
2017-01-26T02:05:17Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T02:05:59Z edgar-rft: aeth: I can sell you some ads you can watch
2017-01-26T02:06:26Z malcom2073 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T02:07:21Z aeth: just make sure that at least one ad is shown, even if the user has an SSD and a gigabit Internet connection
2017-01-26T02:07:54Z krwq joined #lisp
2017-01-26T02:08:13Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T02:08:55Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T02:09:28Z krwq: hello, are there any recommendations for managing foreign memory in lisp? is there a way to use help gc to manage that memory?
2017-01-26T02:10:00Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T02:10:08Z aeth: edgar-rft: plot twist: this is the only video ad that's shown on the installer: http://landoflisp.com/
2017-01-26T02:10:35Z BusFacto_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-26T02:10:55Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-26T02:12:02Z White_Flame: krwq: by managing memory, do you mean auto-deallocate foreign memory when a GC handle goes away?  finalizers should be able to do that
2017-01-26T02:12:03Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-26T02:12:42Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T02:13:36Z krwq: White_Flame: yeh, does it happen automatically for (cffi:foreign-alloc) or do I need to do something?
2017-01-26T02:14:19Z White_Flame: if you register a finalizer on a GC object, that finalizer can call the cffi free function
2017-01-26T02:14:46Z White_Flame: finalizers are implementation specific, nothing to do with cffi
2017-01-26T02:15:12Z travv0` joined #lisp
2017-01-26T02:16:20Z krwq: thanks White_Flame, I'm just checking so that I don't accidentally double dealloc
2017-01-26T02:16:42Z White_Flame: yeah, cffi doesn't do anything automatic for you; it's plain old manual memory management
2017-01-26T02:17:05Z circ-user-GhxZZ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T02:17:08Z krwq: White_Flame: do you know if cffi do any padding for c-structs?
2017-01-26T02:18:18Z White_Flame: I don't.  I haven't used cffi much myself
2017-01-26T02:20:19Z kushal quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-26T02:20:31Z kushal joined #lisp
2017-01-26T02:20:54Z kushal is now known as Guest42435
2017-01-26T02:21:54Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-26T02:23:40Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T02:25:53Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-26T02:36:23Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-26T02:41:19Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-26T02:44:17Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-26T02:46:08Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-26T02:49:06Z travv0` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T02:49:28Z prole quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T02:50:54Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T02:58:02Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T03:07:26Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-26T03:09:36Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-26T03:14:14Z codemac joined #lisp
2017-01-26T03:14:26Z codemac: aeth: thank you for your help earlier, sorry, had to run and errand
2017-01-26T03:27:34Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-26T03:30:20Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T03:30:31Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T03:31:32Z Guest42435 is now known as kushal
2017-01-26T03:31:49Z kushal quit (Changing host)
2017-01-26T03:31:49Z kushal joined #lisp
2017-01-26T03:32:01Z lisp99 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T03:38:24Z paule32 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T03:38:31Z paule32: hello
2017-01-26T03:39:10Z paule32: i am totaly noob, and try to get the enviroment value "MYPATH" to open a package
2017-01-26T03:39:17Z paule32: can you help?
2017-01-26T03:39:31Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-26T03:46:05Z lisp99: what compiler?
2017-01-26T03:47:16Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T03:47:47Z lisp99: paule32: if you are on sbcl sb-ext:posix-getenv
2017-01-26T03:48:06Z paule32: thx, clisp
2017-01-26T03:48:11Z krwq: http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/os.html#env
2017-01-26T03:48:14Z lisp99: getenv
2017-01-26T03:48:33Z krwq: just copy that and be more portable
2017-01-26T03:49:16Z paule32: what is better to set a name set, let  for storing the path in a name variable
2017-01-26T03:49:55Z krwq: ?
2017-01-26T03:50:06Z krwq: could you rephrase the question
2017-01-26T03:50:39Z paule32: (ext:gentenv "KALLUP_DEV")
2017-01-26T03:50:57Z akkad: uiop:getenv is nice
2017-01-26T03:51:22Z paule32: now, i would like the string for pre-string of loading packages
2017-01-26T03:51:31Z paule32: (use-package 'kallup-qt)
2017-01-26T03:52:02Z paule32: use-packages > the compiler fails in the form, that the package can not be found
2017-01-26T03:56:38Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T03:59:53Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-26T04:05:36Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-26T04:09:05Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T04:10:13Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-26T04:14:30Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-26T04:18:22Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T04:18:54Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-26T04:24:39Z paule32: ok i get it
2017-01-26T04:26:49Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T04:28:59Z jasom: M-. and ASDF are not friendly on sbcl; no I didn't want to jump to the top of the with-upgradability form.
2017-01-26T04:32:23Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-26T04:33:19Z djuber quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-26T04:33:48Z paule32: i have a package function
2017-01-26T04:34:19Z paule32: (defun test() (princ "test"))
2017-01-26T04:34:33Z paule32: but i can't access it from outside the package
2017-01-26T04:34:49Z akkad: (package::test)?
2017-01-26T04:35:03Z paule32: where?
2017-01-26T04:35:18Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-26T04:35:26Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-26T04:35:29Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp
2017-01-26T04:35:29Z paule32: in the client file
2017-01-26T04:35:37Z paule32: not in package file ?
2017-01-26T04:36:08Z akkad: you can export it, or just reference it with package::test
2017-01-26T04:39:35Z beach: paule32: Packages do not contain functions, but symbols.  In this case, TEST is a symbol in your package that happens to be the name of a function.  You can refer to a symbol in your package by giving it an explicit `package prefix' in the form of the name of the package followed by a `package marker'.  If the symbol TEST is exported from your package, you can use a single colon `:' as the package marker.  If not, you can use the double
2017-01-26T04:39:35Z beach: colon `::' as the package marker.
2017-01-26T04:41:44Z beach: paule32: However, the use of a double colon package marker is an indication that something is not quite right.  Client code sees the need to break the modularity of the supplied package, even though the author of the package did not want the symbol to be exported, so did not want it to be part of the exposed protocol(s).
2017-01-26T04:42:19Z jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-26T04:43:00Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-26T04:43:41Z paule32: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/536627/85405811/
2017-01-26T04:45:35Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-26T04:46:17Z beach: paule32: It looks like you need to read an introductory text book about Common Lisp.
2017-01-26T04:47:18Z drmeister: Hey beach
2017-01-26T04:47:26Z beach: Hello drmeister.
2017-01-26T04:47:33Z drmeister: Do you have some time to answer some questions?
2017-01-26T04:47:44Z beach: Sure.
2017-01-26T04:48:05Z drmeister: I've been going through my scattered notes and your paper to implement this gf dispatch algorithm.
2017-01-26T04:48:42Z drmeister: I wonder if I could check-list all the things I'm doing towards maintaining consistency and invalidating the right things at the right time.
2017-01-26T04:49:11Z drmeister: Sure enough - I ran into a bootstrapping, metastabilility problem today.
2017-01-26T04:49:13Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T04:50:31Z drmeister: I decided to solve it in a Clasp specific way.  The ECL generic dispatch code works fine, so I added a few lines of code to save memoized effective methods in the call-history.
2017-01-26T04:51:40Z drmeister: Then, once ECL CLOS is up and running I can (mapc (lambda (gf) (switch-to-strandh-dispatch gf)) (clos:all-generic-functions))     That will compile a dispatch function for every generic function based on its call-history.
2017-01-26T04:52:01Z drmeister: So on to the questions.
2017-01-26T04:52:13Z drmeister: Is what I'm doing here sufficient?
2017-01-26T04:52:53Z beach: That's a very general question.
2017-01-26T04:53:01Z drmeister: (1) (DEFCLASS foo ...)  removes call-history entries that have (find-class 'foo) as a specializer from all generic-functions.
2017-01-26T04:53:12Z drmeister: No - the stuff I'm typing now.
2017-01-26T04:53:24Z beach: Ah, OK.
2017-01-26T04:53:33Z drmeister: (2) ADD-METHOD/REMOVE-METHOD - I invalidate the generic function for the method.
2017-01-26T04:54:03Z beach: What does "for the method" mean?
2017-01-26T04:54:14Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-26T04:54:27Z drmeister: (3) On a cache miss, I calculate the effective-method function and add it to the call history with a selector KEY - the key is still a topic of discussion.
2017-01-26T04:55:20Z drmeister: Whatever method I'm adding, it belongs to a generic function.  I invalidate that generic function.
2017-01-26T04:55:53Z drmeister: I invalidate generic functions by setting their dispatcher to a function that recalculates the dispatcher.
2017-01-26T04:56:18Z beach: What do you do with the call history when a method is added or deleted?
2017-01-26T04:57:26Z beach: For (1), you also need to remove entries for subclasses of FOO.
2017-01-26T04:58:23Z jameser quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-26T05:00:01Z drmeister: Hmmm
2017-01-26T05:00:23Z test1600 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T05:00:31Z beach: If a method is removed, all the effective methods containing that method are now incorrect.
2017-01-26T05:01:18Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T05:01:21Z beach: So if there are any entries in the call history with such an effective method, it needs to be removed or recomputed.
2017-01-26T05:01:26Z GGMethos quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-26T05:01:28Z drmeister: Nothing.
2017-01-26T05:01:32Z test1600 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T05:01:51Z drmeister: That's a point that I missed.
2017-01-26T05:02:07Z beach: If a method is added, you need to check whether it is applicable to any entry in the call history.  If so, that entry is incorrect.
2017-01-26T05:02:18Z drmeister: Is there a MOP function for getting the methods contained by an effective method?
2017-01-26T05:03:11Z drmeister: Off the top of your head - I don't have my copy of the AMOP handy but I can look it up tomorrow.
2017-01-26T05:03:20Z beach: It is online.
2017-01-26T05:03:49Z beach: The part you need, at least.
2017-01-26T05:04:23Z drmeister: I had a question about that.   What is the MOP?  How is it different from what is described in AMOP?
2017-01-26T05:05:04Z beach: ?
2017-01-26T05:05:16Z drmeister: For instance, AMOP describes the CLASS-DIRECT-METHODS accessor.   That doesn't appear to be part of the MOP.  I use SPECIALIZER-DIRECT-METHODS
2017-01-26T05:05:37Z beach: `AMOP' is the name of a book that describes the Common Lisp MOP.
2017-01-26T05:05:55Z drmeister: closer-mop doesn't describe CLASS-DIRECT-METHODS
2017-01-26T05:06:08Z beach: So?
2017-01-26T05:06:25Z Bike: there's like a million times in AMOP when they mention that it's an experiment rather than a real standard protocol, and that's kind of how it is
2017-01-26T05:06:38Z drmeister: So there are functions in the AMOP book that aren't provided by closer-mop, which I thought was close to the definitive MOP.
2017-01-26T05:07:08Z beach: CLOSER-MOP is a library that tries to provide a package that makes it possible to access the MOP implementation of different implementations transparently.
2017-01-26T05:08:01Z drmeister: Ok, I guess that's what the "closer" in closer-mop means.   It's like a limit in calculus you get close but you never quite get there.
2017-01-26T05:08:25Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T05:08:30Z drmeister: Zeno's paradox
2017-01-26T05:08:37Z beach: drmeister: Where in the AMOP do you see CLASS-DIRECT-METHODS?  It doesn't appear to be in the spec.
2017-01-26T05:09:01Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-26T05:09:03Z beach: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/all-no-methods.html
2017-01-26T05:09:05Z Bike: closer mop has a lot more stuff in it than most portability libraries, too
2017-01-26T05:09:08Z drmeister: I don't have my copy here.  It's in the index.
2017-01-26T05:09:39Z Bike: this does have specializer-direct-methods though. makes more sense anyway
2017-01-26T05:10:14Z drmeister: RIght - I'm fine with using specializer-direct-methods.
2017-01-26T05:10:19Z beach: drmeister: That index entry does not refer to the spec.  It refers to the tutorial and the CLOSette implementation section.
2017-01-26T05:10:29Z beach: drmeister: That function is not in the specification.
2017-01-26T05:10:36Z drmeister: Is that all-no-methods list the definitive MOP?
2017-01-26T05:11:05Z beach: It is a list of all entries provided in the specification part of the AMOP.
2017-01-26T05:13:18Z beach: drmeister: To answer your previous question, as I recall, `effective method' is not defined as a class, so you need to invent such a class to put in the call history, and you need to provide accessors for it so that you can see what methods are part of it.
2017-01-26T05:14:56Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T05:15:31Z GGMethos joined #lisp
2017-01-26T05:16:44Z lisp99 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-26T05:17:20Z hapticFeels joined #lisp
2017-01-26T05:19:01Z drmeister: Hmm, so the effective-method class should store the applicable method list?
2017-01-26T05:19:27Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T05:19:32Z drmeister: Needs to store the applicable method list so I can search it for methods.
2017-01-26T05:20:08Z drmeister: I think I see.
2017-01-26T05:22:17Z codemac quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T05:24:27Z beach: Maybe you don't need that.  Let me think...
2017-01-26T05:24:37Z beach: How do you represent a call-history entry?
2017-01-26T05:25:02Z beach: It must have some indication of the argument specializers.
2017-01-26T05:25:08Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-26T05:26:03Z beach: So, given a method, using the call-history entry, you can find out whether the method is applicable.  Right?
2017-01-26T05:26:23Z drmeister: I represent a call-history entry as a (cons specializers effective-method-function)
2017-01-26T05:26:34Z drmeister: The effective-method-function is compiled and impenetrable.
2017-01-26T05:26:41Z beach: So, given a method, using the call-history entry, you can find out whether the method is applicable.  Right?
2017-01-26T05:26:57Z drdo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-26T05:27:00Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-26T05:27:15Z drmeister: If I recalculate the applicable methods list.
2017-01-26T05:27:35Z drmeister: That seems kind of expensive.
2017-01-26T05:27:45Z beach: OK, so how do you compute the discriminating function from the call history?
2017-01-26T05:28:04Z beach: You just use the specializers in the entries, no?
2017-01-26T05:28:12Z drmeister: Yes.
2017-01-26T05:28:31Z beach: Can't you just use those specializers to find out whether an arbitrary method is applicable?
2017-01-26T05:28:35Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T05:29:28Z drmeister: I don't think so, there's :around methods and :before methods and methods defined for super classes that could all be applicable.
2017-01-26T05:29:52Z beach: So?
2017-01-26T05:30:33Z drdo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T05:31:00Z drmeister: The dispatch function just takes a list of arguments and either invokes an effective method function or it calls the dispatch-miss function that will invalidate the dispatcher.
2017-01-26T05:31:06Z beach: I am saying GIVEN AN ARBITRARY METHOD, with its specializers etc.  It must be possible for you to use the list of specializers in the call-history entry are such that the method in question would be applicable if such a call were to be made.
2017-01-26T05:31:36Z circ-user-GhxZZ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T05:32:20Z beach: The call history entry is generated when a new call is made right?
2017-01-26T05:33:01Z drmeister: I can see doing that by calling compute-applicable-methods-using-classes and if it fails then compute-applicable-methods and searching through the applicable methods list for method that's being changed.
2017-01-26T05:33:22Z drmeister: Yes
2017-01-26T05:33:35Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T05:34:16Z beach: Let's forget about EQL specializers for the moment, just for simplicity.
2017-01-26T05:34:27Z drmeister: Ok
2017-01-26T05:34:37Z beach: Then a call-history entry contains the classes of the required arguments, right?
2017-01-26T05:34:52Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-26T05:35:37Z drmeister: Yes,
2017-01-26T05:35:45Z beach: How on earth can it be impossible to take some arbitrary method and determine whether its specializers are compatible with that entry, i.e., to determine whether that method is applicable?  I mean, that is exactly what you do in order to create the entry in the first place.
2017-01-26T05:36:06Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-26T05:36:20Z drmeister: What if there is a method like (defmethod foo ((x T) (y T) (z T)) ...)
2017-01-26T05:36:31Z drmeister: It's going to be part of every effective-method-function.
2017-01-26T05:36:41Z beach: You take the list of the classes of the required arguments, and you look at all the methods of the generic function to determine which ones are applicable, no?
2017-01-26T05:37:13Z beach: That method is definitely applicable, no matter what the list of required argument classes might be.
2017-01-26T05:38:06Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-26T05:38:10Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T05:38:16Z drmeister: Say the only call I've made on that generic function is (foo "hello" :there 1.23)
2017-01-26T05:38:41Z beach: Are you saying that you are not able to determine whether a method with specializers T, T, and T, is applicable to a call-history entry that has (say) INTEGER, CHARACTER, and CONS?
2017-01-26T05:39:05Z drmeister: In the call history is ( ( #( string symbol double-float) . <effective-method-fn>))
2017-01-26T05:39:19Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-26T05:39:31Z Tristam joined #lisp
2017-01-26T05:39:31Z Tristam quit (Changing host)
2017-01-26T05:39:31Z Tristam joined #lisp
2017-01-26T05:39:33Z beach: Yes, and you can't tell that a method T, T, and T is applicable then?
2017-01-26T05:39:54Z beach: I mean, string is a subclass of T, symbol is a subclass of T and double-float is a subclass of T.
2017-01-26T05:39:58Z beach: What is the problem here?
2017-01-26T05:40:03Z drmeister: Sure, I could do that - but I'm not sure what I would do would be general and how EQL specializers work into it.
2017-01-26T05:40:16Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-26T05:40:56Z drmeister: Because the call history can have EQL specializers in it.  We haven't even talked about that.
2017-01-26T05:41:35Z drmeister: It could look like (( #(string symbol (eql :fizboz)) . <effective-method-fn> ))
2017-01-26T05:42:29Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-26T05:42:34Z drmeister: So if I have a method specialized on (array T symbol)   would it apply ... thinking...
2017-01-26T05:42:42Z beach: So you are saying that you can not determine for sure whether a method with specializers T, T, and T is applicable if such a call were to be made again?
2017-01-26T05:43:06Z beach: ... or that one, yes.
2017-01-26T05:43:10Z drmeister: T T T is easy.  It applies to everything.
2017-01-26T05:43:22Z beach: Take your example then.
2017-01-26T05:43:31Z drmeister: That's why I cooked it up.
2017-01-26T05:43:56Z beach: So you are saying that you can not determine for sure whether a method with specializers ARRAY, T, and SYMBOL is applicable if such a call were to be made again?
2017-01-26T05:44:09Z drmeister: I am not saying I CAN'T do something.
2017-01-26T05:44:41Z drmeister: I'm saying I'm not yet convinced what I come up with would be general or faster than just memoizing the list of applicable methods and searching that.
2017-01-26T05:45:47Z beach: I would think you do the following:  If the call entry contains a class, then the method must have a specializer that is a superclass.  If the call entry contains an EQL specializer, the method must have either the same EQL specializer, or a class specializer that the EQL specializer is an instance of.
2017-01-26T05:45:50Z beach: No?
2017-01-26T05:46:25Z drmeister: Look, I'm not interested in arguing - you are almost certainly correct that I can just search the superclasses of the call history entry for the specializer classes of each method.
2017-01-26T05:47:25Z drmeister: Do you think this will be faster/better than saving the applicable method list rather than the effective-method function?
2017-01-26T05:47:41Z drmeister: Ugh
2017-01-26T05:47:54Z drmeister: Do you think this will be faster/better than saving the applicable method list and searching it for the method that is being changed.
2017-01-26T05:48:08Z circ-user-GhxZZ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T05:48:22Z beach: You can't search the existing applicable methods for a new method to be added.
2017-01-26T05:48:49Z drmeister: You make an excellent point.
2017-01-26T05:49:03Z drmeister: That kills that idea.
2017-01-26T05:49:06Z drmeister: Thank you.
2017-01-26T05:49:39Z beach: You must remove every call-history entry that, if such a call were to be made again, then the new methods you add, or the one you want to remove, would be applicable, and therefore part of the effective method of that entry.
2017-01-26T05:49:49Z hapticFeels is now known as jmchinny
2017-01-26T05:50:07Z drmeister: Ok, so I have to calculate the obsolete call-history entries from the call-history entries and the method being changed.
2017-01-26T05:50:37Z drmeister: Right - and I see now that I have to do it the way you suggest.
2017-01-26T05:50:50Z beach: Whew!
2017-01-26T05:51:02Z jmchinny left #lisp
2017-01-26T05:51:03Z drmeister: That said I'm off to bed.   I was exhausted before you came on but I couldn't miss the opportunity to ask some questions.
2017-01-26T05:51:34Z drmeister: Will that be it then?  That's all that needs to be done to maintain the call history?
2017-01-26T05:52:29Z drmeister: I see now that the call history is the cache.  The compiled dispatch function is just a way to search it faster.
2017-01-26T05:52:45Z circ-user-GhxZZ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T05:53:37Z drmeister: Good night - thank you.
2017-01-26T05:57:14Z paule32: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/536636/10179148/
2017-01-26T05:57:24Z paule32: i can export, but not import
2017-01-26T05:57:28Z paule32: clisp
2017-01-26T05:58:25Z beach: paule32: It looks like you need to read an introductory text book about Common Lisp.
2017-01-26T05:58:51Z paule32: the things i found, dont deal with packages
2017-01-26T05:59:06Z beach: minion: Please tell paule32 about PCL.
2017-01-26T05:59:06Z minion: paule32: direct your attention towards PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2017-01-26T05:59:28Z paule32: ok
2017-01-26T06:00:54Z beach: Chapter 21: "Programming in the large: packages and symbols"
2017-01-26T06:04:21Z S1ohy quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-26T06:05:32Z circ-user-GhxZZ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T06:09:53Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-26T06:12:29Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-26T06:13:27Z circ-user-GhxZZ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T06:13:41Z Guest82 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T06:15:52Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-26T06:18:11Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T06:18:35Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-26T06:20:42Z creat quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T06:37:50Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-26T06:43:06Z krwq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T06:45:00Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T06:49:27Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T06:53:22Z Guest82 quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-26T06:54:17Z flip214: is there any text that discusses various OSS licenses w.r.t. the lisp image model? Ie. what the implications are
2017-01-26T06:54:29Z flip214: if I want to ship "only" an image?
2017-01-26T06:59:03Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T06:59:04Z flip214: Just wondering because the new QL release has quite a few new GPLv3 projects in it.
2017-01-26T07:01:29Z flip214: Is there a LLGPLv3, even?
2017-01-26T07:06:36Z flip214: Xach: the "ook" link in http://blog.quicklisp.org/2017/01/january-2017-quicklisp-dist-update-now.html takes me to a google account login page.
2017-01-26T07:08:18Z paule32: clisp cant found ASDF
2017-01-26T07:08:33Z paule32: i have download and git archive
2017-01-26T07:08:46Z paule32: did "make ext" "make"
2017-01-26T07:08:52Z paule32: but no change
2017-01-26T07:09:19Z paule32: then, i copied asdf folder to /usr/local/lib/clisp-2.49
2017-01-26T07:09:30Z paule32: rerun make .sh
2017-01-26T07:09:35Z paule32: but no change
2017-01-26T07:09:36Z beach: paule32: You have chosen a Common Lisp implementation that has not been very well maintained for some time.  For that reason, most people here do not use it.  As a consequence, if you have questions about it, you may not get very good answers.
2017-01-26T07:09:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-26T07:10:32Z paule32: what would you write?
2017-01-26T07:13:35Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:13:42Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T07:15:58Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:17:32Z klltkr quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-26T07:18:01Z quadresce quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-26T07:18:21Z JoshYoshi joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:18:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:19:40Z circ-user-GhxZZ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:19:55Z nydel: paule32: many would recommend steel bank common lisp (sbcl) and running it as an repl (interpreter) through emacs. the packages emacs, sbcl & slime should be easily retrievable from your distribution repositories.
2017-01-26T07:19:56Z Josh_2 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-26T07:20:05Z aindilis2 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T07:21:30Z paule32: ok, i have install it
2017-01-26T07:21:51Z paule32: but i cant import symbols from packages, yet
2017-01-26T07:24:22Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-26T07:25:10Z paule32: http://dbase.center/data/lisp/
2017-01-26T07:29:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-26T07:30:40Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:32:51Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-26T07:33:06Z server_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T07:35:46Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T07:35:55Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-26T07:36:29Z holly2 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-26T07:39:09Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T07:39:41Z baconicsynergy joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:40:32Z n3k0_t joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:41:21Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-26T07:41:41Z holly2 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:41:51Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:42:02Z JoshYoshi quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-26T07:42:09Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T07:42:29Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T07:42:33Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:43:22Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:49:48Z beach: Here is the latest version of the paper about path replication that we will submit to ELS: http://metamodular.com/path-replication.pdf in case someone wants to have a look.  Remarks are welcome as usual.  Please send them to us both by email.
2017-01-26T07:50:01Z beach: flip214: Sorry for doing this so close to the deadline.
2017-01-26T07:50:26Z beach: Again, there is almost certainly going to be a deadline extension.
2017-01-26T07:51:02Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:51:13Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:51:38Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:51:40Z beach: Oh, and if someone has remarks and he or she wants to be acknowledged in the paper, please tell us how you want your name to appear.
2017-01-26T07:52:29Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T07:53:22Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-26T07:54:58Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:55:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T07:55:53Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:56:40Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T07:59:35Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:00:06Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:01:48Z server001 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:04:35Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:06:14Z flip214: beach: got the PDF, review in progress
2017-01-26T08:06:33Z beach: Thanks!
2017-01-26T08:07:27Z flip214: beach: do you have the software xournal?
2017-01-26T08:08:08Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:08:11Z circ-user-GhxZZ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:08:13Z beach: flip214: I don't.  Why?
2017-01-26T08:08:22Z jackdaniel: it allows annotating pdf
2017-01-26T08:08:33Z jackdaniel: very handy software
2017-01-26T08:08:37Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:08:41Z beach: Sounds like it.
2017-01-26T08:08:51Z flip214: then I could have sent you only the small xournal file, instead of the (much bigger) re-written PDF.
2017-01-26T08:08:54Z flip214: but never mind.
2017-01-26T08:08:57Z beach: I have used Evince for that in the past.
2017-01-26T08:09:11Z beach: Yes, I see.  Maybe next year's ELS.
2017-01-26T08:09:29Z jackdaniel: xournal creates additional file with annotations which accompanies the original document, so it's not PDF viewer perse
2017-01-26T08:09:39Z beach: I understand.
2017-01-26T08:09:42Z d4ryus4 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:10:02Z beach: I'll look into it when I have time.  ("time"?  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!)
2017-01-26T08:10:43Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:10:55Z jackdaniel: (values-list (timep)) ; -> (NIL "HAHAHA!")
2017-01-26T08:11:14Z beach: :)
2017-01-26T08:12:14Z jackdaniel: I would have forgotten, new QL release, congrats! /me opens the announcement to check what's new :)
2017-01-26T08:12:15Z xaotuk joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:12:35Z d4ryus3 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:17:05Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T08:17:26Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:19:58Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:20:38Z o1e9 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:22:25Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:25:12Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:28:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:28:31Z flip214: beach: reply in your mailbox.
2017-01-26T08:28:43Z beach: Thanks!
2017-01-26T08:28:59Z xaotuk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:29:07Z flip214: you're welcome!
2017-01-26T08:29:22Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:29:36Z flip214: INVOICE ATTACHED ;P
2017-01-26T08:30:28Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:32:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:32:36Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:33:24Z beach: No problem. :)
2017-01-26T08:34:00Z h3r3tic joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:34:27Z h3r3tic quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-26T08:34:50Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:35:40Z srcerer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:39:16Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:40:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:41:26Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:42:03Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:43:42Z heurist` joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:45:26Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:46:02Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:47:08Z paule32: http://dbase.center/data/lisp/
2017-01-26T08:47:16Z paule32: no process
2017-01-26T08:47:21Z cyraxjoe quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:48:21Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:49:41Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:51:58Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-26T08:53:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T08:54:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:02:20Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T09:04:07Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:06:42Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T09:07:40Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:09:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:09:26Z hhdave_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:11:47Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T09:11:47Z hhdave_ is now known as hhdave
2017-01-26T09:11:49Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T09:13:32Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:20:28Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T09:21:06Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:21:28Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:22:29Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T09:28:27Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T09:32:00Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T09:32:19Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:32:33Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:33:51Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:34:27Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:36:22Z diogo_franco quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T09:40:05Z ioa joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:42:17Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T09:43:04Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:45:57Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:49:57Z z3r0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T09:50:20Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T09:52:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T09:53:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:55:17Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T09:55:52Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T09:56:09Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-26T10:04:02Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T10:04:38Z rk[ghost] joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:04:39Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-26T10:04:45Z rk[ghost] waves
2017-01-26T10:04:59Z rk[ghost]: i am trying to migrate off of clisp.. giving sbcl a chance
2017-01-26T10:05:43Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:05:43Z paule32: hello
2017-01-26T10:05:46Z paule32: need help
2017-01-26T10:05:47Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:05:48Z paule32: http://dbase.center/data/lisp/
2017-01-26T10:06:01Z rk[ghost]: how can i mimick this call: clisp -q -q -i a.lisp -repl b.lisp
2017-01-26T10:06:10Z paule32: i don't know, why error produce
2017-01-26T10:06:29Z DrCode quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T10:09:04Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:09:46Z flip214: paule32: you might want to read a few books about lisp.
2017-01-26T10:09:51Z flip214: minion: please tell paule32 about pcl
2017-01-26T10:09:52Z minion: paule32: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2017-01-26T10:16:47Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T10:17:18Z z3r0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T10:18:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:19:40Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:20:49Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T10:21:36Z karswell` quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
2017-01-26T10:22:00Z diogo_franco joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:22:13Z DrCode joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:22:48Z z3r0_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-26T10:23:17Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T10:24:36Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T10:25:17Z Bike quit (Quit: neurosexomorphic)
2017-01-26T10:26:35Z scymtym_: rk[ghost]: something like sbcl --noinform --load a.lisp --load b.lisp
2017-01-26T10:27:33Z rk[ghost]: aye aye! that is exactly what i just tried:)
2017-01-26T10:27:44Z rk[ghost]: decided to not be lazy and read through manpage
2017-01-26T10:27:50Z rk[ghost]: thanks for verifying my guesswork!!
2017-01-26T10:28:24Z narendraj9 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:28:31Z scymtym_: rk[ghost]: no problem
2017-01-26T10:28:42Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 259 seconds)
2017-01-26T10:28:42Z rk[ghost]: however.. i am porting a project from another machine.. that was using clisp.. and since there doesnt seem to be clisp for arm.. switched to sbcl.. however.. now i noticed it was calling quicklisp from a local directory on other box
2017-01-26T10:28:50Z rk[ghost]: have to recall how to get quicklisp again
2017-01-26T10:29:09Z rk[ghost]: i stopped playing computer for a year.. decided today to try lisping again..
2017-01-26T10:30:00Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:30:17Z scymtym_: rk[ghost]: https://www.quicklisp.org/beta/#installation
2017-01-26T10:30:22Z rk[ghost]: thankye:D
2017-01-26T10:32:00Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:34:58Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:35:05Z server001 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T10:36:12Z rk[ghost]: i recently got a reprogrammable keyboard.. and now have easy access () keys!!
2017-01-26T10:41:09Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-26T10:41:57Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:42:44Z h3r3tic joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:45:08Z rk[ghost]: any idea if the quicklisp directory needs to be $HOME/?
2017-01-26T10:45:52Z flip214: you can move it to anywhere you want.
2017-01-26T10:46:33Z rk[ghost]: is it typically to leave it in $HOME.. or is there a standard for hsaving it systemwide?
2017-01-26T10:46:44Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:47:00Z krasnal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T10:47:00Z server001 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:48:21Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:48:50Z h3r3tic quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-26T10:50:29Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T10:54:14Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T10:56:25Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T10:58:27Z malice`: rk[ghost]: what is reprogrammable keyboard?
2017-01-26T10:59:57Z jackdaniel: rk[ghost]: having it systemwide isn't common (because user using it has to have write access to quicklisp directories)
2017-01-26T10:59:59Z rk[ghost]: a keyboard with a microcontroller in it that allows for remapping of buttons to keycodes
2017-01-26T11:00:09Z rk[ghost]: ja
2017-01-26T11:00:30Z jackdaniel: having system-wide asdf registry is somewhat more common
2017-01-26T11:00:33Z rk[ghost]: jackdaniel: ayeaye.. i thought that might have been the case.. so for
2017-01-26T11:00:53Z malice`: rk[ghost]: what's the difference between just changing that in X server?
2017-01-26T11:00:58Z rk[ghost]: just curious on how the standard environment is set up for happy lisping
2017-01-26T11:01:07Z NhanH quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-26T11:01:16Z rk[ghost]: malice`: that requires running x!
2017-01-26T11:01:17Z malice`: e.g. i can remap CAPS LOCK to work as Hyper instead, or I could take my right and left Alt to work as ( and ) respectively
2017-01-26T11:01:18Z jackdaniel: rk[ghost]: usually it's quicklisp in home directory
2017-01-26T11:01:22Z malice`: rk[ghost]: :)
2017-01-26T11:01:35Z malice`: that's right
2017-01-26T11:01:43Z rk[ghost]: and.. my keyboard stores the keycodes .. so i can plug in to /any/ machine.. and have this current mapping
2017-01-26T11:02:06Z rk[ghost] no want to run x
2017-01-26T11:02:15Z malice`: yeah, but I'm yet to really see this use case
2017-01-26T11:02:35Z malice`: I don't usually take my keyboard each time I leave my house
2017-01-26T11:02:47Z malice`: rk[ghost]: what keyboard is it, by the way?
2017-01-26T11:02:59Z rk[ghost]: well for instance.. the other day my grandfather asked me to come over and help him fix an issue on his machine
2017-01-26T11:03:00Z jackdaniel: malice`: I had one (but I have fixed it in the keyboard driver in the kernel) – my asus transformer had "back" button and "search" in usual places of escape and meta
2017-01-26T11:03:12Z jackdaniel: so I had to change the mapping of keycodes to keys
2017-01-26T11:03:15Z rk[ghost]: it is an ergodox
2017-01-26T11:03:46Z rk[ghost]: openhardware:D
2017-01-26T11:04:39Z mtd quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-26T11:04:45Z rk[ghost]: so.. i set up a key for screen and one for tmux.. so a single key does Ctrl+a/Ctrl+b
2017-01-26T11:04:55Z mtd joined #lisp
2017-01-26T11:05:06Z rk[ghost]: simple things.. make life simple:D
2017-01-26T11:05:50Z rk[ghost]: so.. a second -q in clisp, suppressing the loading output of initial --loads.. can i do this in sbcl?
2017-01-26T11:07:35Z jackdaniel: I don't think so
2017-01-26T11:08:05Z rk[ghost]: aye aye.. last clispy question.. it has a custom: package.. for redefining the prompt-body and such
2017-01-26T11:08:12Z rk[ghost]: is there an sbcl equivalent package?
2017-01-26T11:08:22Z jackdaniel: what is a prompt-body?
2017-01-26T11:08:26Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-26T11:08:46Z rk[ghost]: the defautl prompt body of sbcl seems to be "*"
2017-01-26T11:08:52Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-26T11:08:52Z jackdaniel: ah
2017-01-26T11:09:09Z jackdaniel: I don't know that
2017-01-26T11:09:13Z jackdaniel: you may check in sbcl's manual
2017-01-26T11:09:33Z jackdaniel: keep in mind, that CL is usually used via slime emacs mode
2017-01-26T11:09:40Z rk[ghost]: is that the manpage. .or is there an manual?
2017-01-26T11:09:43Z jackdaniel: which customizes its own prompt (and "talks" with lisp via swank)
2017-01-26T11:09:56Z jackdaniel: here: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/
2017-01-26T11:10:08Z jackdaniel: but I suspect it's installed also as info page on your system
2017-01-26T11:10:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T11:10:21Z jackdaniel: if you are into info
2017-01-26T11:10:32Z rk[ghost]: ah right.. i don;t emacs just yet.. i am a vimmer and i use vimhacks and tmux to handle my sessioning
2017-01-26T11:11:19Z jackdaniel: there is also slimv for vim, not sure about its quality (I like vim even less than emacs ;)
2017-01-26T11:12:10Z jackdaniel: if you want terminal repl support, you may check on https://common-lisp.net/project/linedit/ , but it doesn't work perfect for me
2017-01-26T11:12:19Z rk[ghost]: i cannot say why.. but i /really/ enjoy vim
2017-01-26T11:12:35Z jackdaniel: it has completion etc
2017-01-26T11:12:40Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T11:12:40Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-26T11:12:50Z jackdaniel: (linedit is sbcl/ccl specific afaik)
2017-01-26T11:12:51Z rk[ghost]: when i first learned about vi.. the idea of modes.. it changed my computing experience forever
2017-01-26T11:13:04Z rk[ghost]: i even use modular vim-like pentadactyl for firefix
2017-01-26T11:13:07Z rk[ghost]: firefox*
2017-01-26T11:13:11Z rk[ghost]: sooo handy:D
2017-01-26T11:13:25Z rk[ghost]: aye aye.
2017-01-26T11:13:49Z jackdaniel: either way good luck with CL, I'll be back later \o
2017-01-26T11:13:55Z rk[ghost]: i forget what program it is.. but in the past.. i wrapped programs like sbcl in something.. which gave it tabcomplete and other goodies.. like vi-style editing
2017-01-26T11:14:02Z rk[ghost]: thank you for your help!
2017-01-26T11:14:30Z jackdaniel: it might be rlwrap (readline standalone program)
2017-01-26T11:14:38Z rk[ghost]: there we go.. !
2017-01-26T11:14:53Z rk[ghost]: boy.. stop computing for one year.. there is so much dust.. i could build a treehouse!
2017-01-26T11:15:33Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T11:19:59Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-26T11:19:59Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-26T11:20:24Z paule32: can i get informations on:  (defpackage #kallup-asdf (:use :cl :asdf)
2017-01-26T11:20:25Z paule32: (in-package :kallup-asdf)
2017-01-26T11:20:25Z paule32: (asdf:defsystem :kallup-qt
2017-01-26T11:20:25Z paule32:   :version "0.0.1"
2017-01-26T11:20:25Z paule32:   :maintainer "Jens Kallup <jkallup@web.de>"
2017-01-26T11:20:25Z paule32:   :author "Jens Kallup"
2017-01-26T11:20:27Z paule32:   :serial t
2017-01-26T11:20:29Z paule32:   :components ((:file "a"))
2017-01-26T11:20:31Z paule32:                (:file "b" :depends-on ("a"))))
2017-01-26T11:20:38Z niko joined #lisp
2017-01-26T11:20:50Z malice`: paule32: use paste.lisp.org next time
2017-01-26T11:21:14Z malice`: what information do you want?
2017-01-26T11:21:31Z paule32: double
2017-01-26T11:21:47Z malice`: ?
2017-01-26T11:22:21Z paule32: grammar
2017-01-26T11:22:45Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T11:22:56Z rk[ghost]: pau
2017-01-26T11:23:08Z rk[ghost]: paule32: are you familiar with the common lisp object system?
2017-01-26T11:23:31Z paule32: not all
2017-01-26T11:23:57Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T11:27:01Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-26T11:31:07Z malice`: paule32: sorry, could you answer me in the full sentence? I might be able to help if I understand what you are asking
2017-01-26T11:31:13Z malice`: and right now I do not know what the question is
2017-01-26T11:32:32Z paule32: rk would know, which skills i have - and i must deal with it - i am a beginner
2017-01-26T11:33:54Z jackdaniel: paule32: a few people suggested a book to you. Start from there – you won't understand how macro works before you know what macro is
2017-01-26T11:34:09Z jackdaniel: minion: tell paule32 about pcl
2017-01-26T11:34:10Z minion: paule32: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2017-01-26T11:34:31Z jackdaniel: it is a very good introduction to programming with lisp
2017-01-26T11:34:46Z jackdaniel: if you haven't programmed in any language yet, you may want to read another book
2017-01-26T11:34:51Z jackdaniel: minion: tell paule32 about gentle
2017-01-26T11:34:51Z minion: paule32: please see gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/
2017-01-26T11:35:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T11:35:20Z malice`: I started with gentle. It is very gently indeed.
2017-01-26T11:35:42Z malice`: Too gentle for my taste, but shows you many functions, so imho it's worth it.
2017-01-26T11:35:50Z jackdaniel: also, if you have some questions, this is a good FAQ to start with: http://random-state.net/files/nikodemus-cl-faq.html
2017-01-26T11:36:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T11:40:11Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-26T11:45:02Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-26T11:47:25Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T11:47:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T11:50:29Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-26T11:58:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-26T11:59:57Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T12:04:45Z paule32: (require 'kallup-qt)
2017-01-26T12:04:45Z paule32: (use-package 'kallup-qt)
2017-01-26T12:04:45Z paule32: (wtf)
2017-01-26T12:05:23Z paule32: load: file KALLUP-QT does not exists
2017-01-26T12:07:08Z baconicsynergy quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T12:07:40Z rk[ghost]: paule32: the purpose of require is to define what dependencies/libraries that a program needs to run.. you have to install those libraries before you can load them
2017-01-26T12:07:50Z rk[ghost]: also paste.lisp.org
2017-01-26T12:08:04Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T12:08:20Z rk[ghost] just came across interimOS.. neat!!
2017-01-26T12:11:20Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T12:11:39Z paule32: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337433
2017-01-26T12:12:45Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T12:13:23Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-26T12:14:03Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-26T12:14:03Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-26T12:16:51Z Xach: "require" is not used much in CL sources these days.
2017-01-26T12:18:47Z paule32: Xach: when i use find-package 'name
2017-01-26T12:19:10Z paule32: i get error that EVAL cant found WTF
2017-01-26T12:21:01Z White_Flame: packages don't pull in the COMMON-LISP package by default
2017-01-26T12:21:17Z White_Flame: most all package definitions include :use :cl
2017-01-26T12:21:47Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T12:22:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T12:25:00Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T12:31:12Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T12:33:12Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T12:33:30Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T12:38:19Z mishoo_ quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2017-01-26T12:38:45Z |3b|: paule32: misplaced parens in the .asd? also, the .asd file seems a bit late to be loading asdf, which is what should be loading the .asd file in the first place
2017-01-26T12:39:59Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T12:41:18Z |3b|: (also, you don't need file dependencies with :serial t, WTF is never defined, and not putting ** on defparameter names is a good way to get subtle bugs later)
2017-01-26T12:42:13Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-26T12:43:51Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T12:47:27Z paule32: how can i make WTF global?
2017-01-26T12:48:10Z paule32: (in-package :kallup-qt)
2017-01-26T12:48:10Z paule32: (defun wtf ()
2017-01-26T12:48:10Z paule32:  format T "jens")
2017-01-26T12:48:12Z |3b|: there is no "global" (or alternately, everything is global)
2017-01-26T12:48:39Z |3b|: exporting it from a package is the closest, but your paste already did that, it just didn't /define/ it
2017-01-26T12:49:16Z |3b|: that defun would define it, but it wouldn't run very well due to undefined variables
2017-01-26T12:49:39Z paule32: that makes me crazy
2017-01-26T12:49:49Z |3b|: what does?
2017-01-26T12:50:13Z paule32: it makes my head hairless
2017-01-26T12:50:19Z paule32: hear
2017-01-26T12:51:51Z malice`: paule32: your function definition is wront
2017-01-26T12:51:54Z malice`: s/wront/wrong
2017-01-26T12:52:07Z malice`: it should be (defun wtf () (format t "jens"))
2017-01-26T12:52:17Z malice`: (ignoring the fact that wtf isn't the best name for the function)
2017-01-26T12:53:44Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-26T12:53:53Z paule32: i have the excact lines, now
2017-01-26T12:54:00Z paule32: but it didn't work
2017-01-26T12:54:12Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-26T12:54:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T12:55:04Z |3b|: show us what you did and how it failed (on lisppaste, not here)
2017-01-26T12:55:59Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T12:57:03Z niko left #lisp
2017-01-26T12:57:03Z reverse_light quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T12:58:43Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-26T12:59:49Z paule32: |3b|: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337434
2017-01-26T13:00:37Z |3b|: ok, your .asd file is still wrong in ways mentioned earlier
2017-01-26T13:01:15Z |3b|: and indentation is a bit odd (probably partly from using tabs instead of spaces), and we don't generally put ) by themselves
2017-01-26T13:02:21Z |3b|: and find-package doesn't have any side effects, it just returns a package object (or nil if it can't find one), so you probably want to specify which package WTF is in, or import it into the current package in d_1.lisp
2017-01-26T13:02:46Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T13:04:08Z |3b|: so assuming you are loading those file manually (or otherwise evaluating the contents manually), you probably just need to change the find-package to in-package or use-package to get the WTF call to work
2017-01-26T13:05:07Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:05:52Z |3b|: use-package might complain about symbol conflicts though if you laded the old version into same lisp session, easiest fix would be to just restart it and load stuff again, or maybe pick a restart to use the symbol from KALLUP-QT if there is one
2017-01-26T13:06:46Z paule32: (in-package :kallup-qt)
2017-01-26T13:06:46Z paule32: (wtf)
2017-01-26T13:07:22Z paule32: SYSTEM::%FIND-PACKAGE: Package named "KALLUP-QT" does not exists.
2017-01-26T13:07:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T13:07:39Z |3b|: did you load a.lisp?
2017-01-26T13:08:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:09:50Z paule32: (load "a.lisp")
2017-01-26T13:09:50Z paule32: (in-package :kallup-qt)
2017-01-26T13:09:50Z paule32: (wtf)
2017-01-26T13:10:03Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:10:17Z paule32: clisp d_1.lisp
2017-01-26T13:10:39Z paule32: eval: the function WTF is not defined
2017-01-26T13:10:40Z |3b|: you probably also want to load b.lisp, or the call to wtf will fail
2017-01-26T13:11:07Z |3b|: and at some point, fix the .asd file and use asdf to load things in the right order for you
2017-01-26T13:12:07Z zeissoctopus joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:13:55Z paule32: thx, now, it will work
2017-01-26T13:14:18Z paule32: how shows asd file?
2017-01-26T13:16:56Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-26T13:17:28Z |3b|: i would write the .asd as http://paste.lisp.org/+78D6/1
2017-01-26T13:18:36Z |3b|: you should be using asdf to load the .asd file, so shouldn't try to load asdf inside it, and the parens on the defpackage were wrong (and i don't think you need it anyway)
2017-01-26T13:19:14Z |3b|: and the parens on the :components was wrong, and you don't need the :depends-on for "b" because you specified :serial t which adds it automatically
2017-01-26T13:19:49Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T13:20:34Z |3b|: (this is the point where we usually tell you that an editor which knows how to indent lisp code would probably have shown you the incorrect parens, emacs is the usual choice here since it runs slime, which is one of the better ways to interact with CL code)
2017-01-26T13:20:47Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:21:13Z SlashLife quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T13:21:19Z papachan quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-26T13:22:35Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:24:35Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:24:56Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-26T13:25:26Z narendraj9 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T13:26:46Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:27:14Z SlashLife joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:27:39Z ogamita joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:30:41Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-26T13:31:49Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T13:32:08Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:36:14Z tiny-steps joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:36:59Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-26T13:37:34Z tiny-steps quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-26T13:37:39Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:41:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T13:41:14Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:42:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:43:34Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-26T13:48:04Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:49:57Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:54:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T13:55:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:56:16Z paule32: |3b|: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337435
2017-01-26T13:56:38Z paule32: ARG
2017-01-26T13:56:48Z paule32: german text included
2017-01-26T13:56:49Z phadthai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-26T13:57:01Z malice`: you've got an answer
2017-01-26T13:57:03Z malice`: falsche syntax
2017-01-26T13:57:04Z |3b|: the german says what i said a few times :p
2017-01-26T13:57:05Z malice`: wrong syntax
2017-01-26T13:57:11Z malice`: you need to quote
2017-01-26T13:57:19Z malice`: paule32: what are you trying to achieve?
2017-01-26T13:57:28Z |3b|: not quote, fix parentheses
2017-01-26T13:57:36Z malice`: ?
2017-01-26T13:57:40Z malice`: (in-package name)
2017-01-26T13:57:43Z malice`: should be (in-package 'name)
2017-01-26T13:57:48Z |3b|: (in-package name) is not a defpackage option
2017-01-26T13:57:50Z malice`: oh
2017-01-26T13:57:52Z malice`: yeah
2017-01-26T13:57:55Z malice`: that too
2017-01-26T13:57:57Z phoe__ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T13:58:04Z malice`: so two errors actually
2017-01-26T13:58:15Z |3b|: and (:file "b" :depends-on ("a")) is not a defsystem option
2017-01-26T13:58:22Z phoe__: Is there any standard way to remove key-value pairs from plist?
2017-01-26T13:58:53Z |3b|: alexandria:remove-from-plist ?
2017-01-26T13:58:56Z phoe__: I want to remove the pair with key :BAR from '(:foo 1 :bar 2 :baz 3 :quux 4), so I get '(:foo 1 :baz 3 :quux 4)
2017-01-26T13:59:05Z phoe__: |3b|: perfect, thanks.
2017-01-26T13:59:16Z |3b|: (or variants of it for destructive or in-place)
2017-01-26T13:59:49Z phoe__: I'm fine with non-destructive.
2017-01-26T13:59:57Z |3b|: paule32: and that's not how you use .asd files
2017-01-26T14:00:40Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T14:01:25Z malice`: paule32: I would strongly suggest that you learn Lisp first, or at least read "Learn X in Y" about Common Lisp
2017-01-26T14:01:37Z malice`: this will save you a lot of time
2017-01-26T14:02:26Z malice`: phoe__: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node108.html
2017-01-26T14:02:30Z malice`: if you're fine with destructive
2017-01-26T14:02:38Z malice`: (remf PLIST KEY)
2017-01-26T14:02:58Z phoe__: malice`: thanks; I actually want to cons up a new list in this case.
2017-01-26T14:03:06Z paule32: (defpackage 'kallup-qt (:use :cl :asdf)
2017-01-26T14:03:16Z malice`: (remf (copy-list plist) key) :P
2017-01-26T14:03:27Z phoe__: malice`: :P
2017-01-26T14:03:28Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:03:30Z malice`: paule32: missing closing parenthesis!
2017-01-26T14:03:43Z paule32: *** - STRING: Argument must be a String, Symbol or Character not 'KALLUP-QT.
2017-01-26T14:03:54Z malice`: yeah, use : instead of '
2017-01-26T14:04:02Z |3b|: you probably don't want to :use :asdf
2017-01-26T14:04:03Z malice`: (defpackage :my-package .... )
2017-01-26T14:04:09Z salv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:04:12Z malice`: and that
2017-01-26T14:04:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T14:06:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:06:59Z h3r3tic joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:07:29Z h3r3tic left #lisp
2017-01-26T14:07:31Z Oladon1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T14:08:06Z zeissoctopus quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-26T14:08:25Z paule32: (load "/usr/local/lib/clisp-2.49/asdf/asdf")
2017-01-26T14:08:25Z paule32: (use-package :cl :asdf)
2017-01-26T14:08:25Z paule32: (defpackage :kallup-qt)
2017-01-26T14:08:25Z paule32: (in-package  kallup-qt)
2017-01-26T14:08:49Z paule32: ASDF/PARSE-DEFSYSTEM:REGISTER-SYSTEM-DEFINITION: Keyword-Argumente in
2017-01-26T14:08:49Z paule32:        (:NAME "kallup-qt" :VERSION "0.0.1" :MAINTAINER "Jens Kallup <jkallup@web.de>" :AUTHOR "Jens Kallup" :LICENCE "MIT" :DESCRIPTION "TestUnit"
2017-01-26T14:08:49Z paule32:         :LONG-DESCRIPTION "Ein Test-Programm" :SERIAL T :COMPONENTS ((:FILE "a")) (:FILE "b" :DEPENDS-ON ("a")))
2017-01-26T14:08:55Z paule32: not paired
2017-01-26T14:09:08Z Oladon joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:09:16Z beach: paule32: You are getting a tad annoying.
2017-01-26T14:10:53Z beach: paule32: You don't follow advice.  You don't use lisppaste as you are told, and you still try to learn Common Lisp by iterating incorrect code on all the participants of #lisp.  You have been told repeatedly in the past few hours to go read a text book in order to learn the basics of Common Lisp.
2017-01-26T14:13:14Z notzmv joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:13:42Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T14:14:49Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:14:50Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-26T14:17:34Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T14:17:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:19:40Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:27:08Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:28:20Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-26T14:29:14Z paule32: hey, this is fantastic
2017-01-26T14:29:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:29:18Z paule32: i got it
2017-01-26T14:29:28Z paule32: if you have packages
2017-01-26T14:30:02Z paule32: you only need 2-3 lines of code to display an application
2017-01-26T14:30:13Z paule32: thanks to all here
2017-01-26T14:34:29Z fiveop joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:35:45Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:39:01Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-26T14:40:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:41:52Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-26T14:42:10Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T14:42:56Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T14:47:26Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:48:35Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T14:49:48Z raynold[here] quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-26T14:50:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T14:51:56Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:53:14Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-26T14:54:05Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:55:17Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-26T14:59:40Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:02:50Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T15:02:59Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-26T15:03:08Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:05:02Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:08:22Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T15:09:57Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:10:13Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:12:45Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T15:12:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T15:13:16Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:14:08Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:22:56Z varjagg joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:23:12Z klltkr quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-26T15:24:25Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T15:25:41Z zooey quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T15:25:57Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:29:05Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-26T15:30:16Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:33:20Z salv0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T15:33:22Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:36:23Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T15:36:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T15:37:21Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:37:45Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T15:38:33Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:39:00Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:39:46Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:42:57Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:43:25Z nzambe joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:43:26Z loofee joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:43:45Z loofee quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T15:43:51Z misv quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-26T15:43:58Z misv joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:44:06Z phoe__ quit
2017-01-26T15:45:02Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T15:45:03Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T15:46:21Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:47:59Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:48:52Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T15:49:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:52:11Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T15:52:34Z mhd joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:55:19Z stardiviner quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-26T15:57:59Z fiveop quit
2017-01-26T15:58:13Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T15:58:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T15:58:40Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T15:59:36Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:00:22Z circ-user-GhxZZ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:04:04Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:04:26Z z3r0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T16:06:09Z circ-user-GhxZZ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T16:06:22Z manuel__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T16:08:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T16:09:09Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:09:25Z z3r0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T16:09:37Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:09:55Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-26T16:10:56Z mhd quit (Ping timeout: 184 seconds)
2017-01-26T16:11:01Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-26T16:11:32Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:11:38Z z3r0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T16:12:31Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:12:40Z mhd quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T16:12:46Z z3r0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T16:13:52Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:14:01Z z3r0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T16:15:09Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:15:25Z z3r0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T16:17:12Z SCHAAP137 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T16:17:39Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:17:40Z o1e9 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-26T16:17:53Z z3r0_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T16:18:22Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:18:57Z circ-user-ZCCmR joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:19:16Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T16:19:19Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:19:30Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:21:18Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:21:32Z SCHAAP137 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:23:42Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:23:59Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:25:28Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:28:24Z Benjx joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:31:29Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T16:31:47Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:32:05Z manuel__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T16:33:03Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:37:15Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:37:48Z Sampuka joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:38:38Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T16:40:44Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-26T16:41:08Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:41:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T16:42:05Z circ-user-ZCCmR quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T16:42:52Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:47:14Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:50:02Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-26T16:50:15Z S1ohy quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T16:52:00Z malice`: Can you create .so object with any CL compiler? More specifically, I'm mostly curious about SBCL
2017-01-26T16:52:04Z malice`: I'm almost sure you can with ECL
2017-01-26T16:52:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T16:52:59Z malice`: so that I can e.g. define #'repl: (defun repl () (loop (print (eval (read))))) and then make it available in static library, so that code in C(++) could use it?
2017-01-26T16:53:15Z malice`: (I know I can do it the other way using cffi)
2017-01-26T16:53:32Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T16:56:51Z jackdaniel: afaik SBCL can't do that
2017-01-26T16:57:18Z jackdaniel: only Kyoto family can do that
2017-01-26T16:57:28Z mhd joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:00:43Z edgar-rft: of course you can do that, you only need to write a C-compiler in Lisp
2017-01-26T17:02:21Z jackdaniel: edgar-rft: I'm sure he asks about ABI compatibility with today unices, how writing C-compiler in Lisp would help in such goal?
2017-01-26T17:02:44Z logicmoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:04:25Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T17:04:50Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T17:05:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:05:11Z edgar-rft: What he *has* asked was how to produce a shared object file with a CL compiler.
2017-01-26T17:05:24Z logicmoo is now known as dmiles
2017-01-26T17:07:43Z jackdaniel: yes, and I don't understand how C-compiler written in Lisp would help with that – hence my question
2017-01-26T17:09:59Z sirkmatija quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T17:15:02Z cgdub joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:16:43Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T17:17:02Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:27:20Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T17:29:02Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:30:50Z ogamita: malice`: Notice that (read) lets you read something like:   #.(progn (load #P"~/quicklisp/setup.lisp") (funcall (intern "QUICKLOAD" "QL") :hermlock-clx) (funcall (intern "HERMLOCK" "HERMLOCK"))) ; which means that you now need to have the whole Common Lisp environment in your .so
2017-01-26T17:31:18Z ogamita: malice`: ccl can save lisp images with the :native argument that should save it as a .so on linux.
2017-01-26T17:34:10Z nowhereman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T17:34:21Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:36:15Z malice`: ogamita: I am aware of that functionality of read.
2017-01-26T17:36:18Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T17:37:23Z ioa quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-26T17:37:31Z ioa joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:37:53Z ogamita: malice`: ok, so now we can assume that we need the whole lisp, why would we want to put it in a .so?  I mean, libecl.so exists, and otherwise, you can just boot a sbcl or a ccl.
2017-01-26T17:38:22Z malice`: For teh lulz, of course!
2017-01-26T17:38:33Z ogamita: Ok, so libecl.so
2017-01-26T17:39:04Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T17:39:16Z malice`: being serious, I am aware of that, but you may probably want to embed it somewhere
2017-01-26T17:39:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T17:39:24Z malice`: I know ecl has that use case
2017-01-26T17:39:33Z jackdaniel: it's one if its prime use-cases
2017-01-26T17:39:34Z jackdaniel: ;)
2017-01-26T17:39:41Z malice`: but was curious whether other implementations support that too
2017-01-26T17:39:44Z malice`: ^^
2017-01-26T17:40:08Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-26T17:40:12Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:40:33Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:42:22Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T17:43:11Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:43:16Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:43:31Z ogamita: malice`: one would have to try ccl save-application :native option http://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter4.9.html
2017-01-26T17:43:50Z ogamita: I don't know what kind of .so would be generated (what would be inside, and how you'd use it).
2017-01-26T17:45:39Z mvilleneuve quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-26T17:46:08Z mattrepl joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:46:21Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:47:15Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:53:53Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T17:54:11Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T17:54:35Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T17:55:22Z akkad: trivial-dump-core:save-executable is portable
2017-01-26T17:58:51Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T17:59:18Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-26T18:00:02Z raynold[here] joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:00:35Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:00:43Z cpape joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:01:11Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:04:25Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T18:05:37Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:06:20Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:14:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-26T18:15:35Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:19:22Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T18:23:50Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:25:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T18:26:04Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:31:16Z ioa quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T18:37:03Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T18:38:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:38:33Z Posterdati: hi
2017-01-26T18:39:02Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:39:02Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-26T18:39:02Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:39:13Z Posterdati: is there anyone using cl-log? I'd like some explanations for timestamp customization
2017-01-26T18:39:44Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:39:53Z phadthai joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:41:17Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T18:43:08Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:44:17Z sellout- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T18:44:35Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:46:29Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-26T18:46:55Z ioa joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:48:04Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-26T18:48:34Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:48:34Z vaporatorius quit (Changing host)
2017-01-26T18:48:34Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:48:34Z vap1 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:48:37Z frodef` joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:48:52Z frodef quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T18:49:24Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T18:49:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:50:21Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-26T18:53:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:53:28Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T18:54:40Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:58:09Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T18:58:09Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T18:59:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:59:46Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-26T18:59:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-26T18:59:46Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:00:42Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:00:58Z vaporatorius quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T19:01:46Z server001 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T19:04:04Z antoszka: Posterdati: I *think* otwieracz and mrSpec are using it.
2017-01-26T19:04:24Z Posterdati: ok
2017-01-26T19:04:26Z mrSpec: you're right
2017-01-26T19:04:34Z mrSpec: but I'm unable to help you right now :(
2017-01-26T19:04:51Z Posterdati: I only need to understand if it is possible to change the messages timestamp and how!
2017-01-26T19:05:29Z titankiller joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:07:29Z axion: according to the docs, looks like just redefine the two reader methods
2017-01-26T19:07:37Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T19:10:07Z otwieracz: We're using log4cl.
2017-01-26T19:10:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T19:11:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:12:19Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:12:22Z jdz: Posterdati: you just subclass FORMATTED-MESSAGE, define a method on FORMAT-MESSAGE for you subclass, and then pass the name of your subclass as  :message-class when you make an instance of LOG-MANAGER.
2017-01-26T19:13:13Z jdz: s/just//
2017-01-26T19:13:39Z Posterdati: ah ok, thanks people
2017-01-26T19:14:50Z azrazalea: What's the state of the art regarding web applications with database backend in common lisp? Looking to move a project from ruby on rails to common lisp. http://8arrow.org/caveman/? Anyone have experience writing something complicated?
2017-01-26T19:15:23Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T19:15:24Z phoe_: azrazalea: http://www.cliki.net/Database might be a source of data
2017-01-26T19:15:46Z Posterdati: I use drakma, hunchentoot and postmedern
2017-01-26T19:15:51Z phoe_: there are multiple web frameworks for CL.
2017-01-26T19:16:07Z Posterdati: s/postmederm/postmodern
2017-01-26T19:16:33Z azrazalea: Posterdati: drakma is a client right? So you are just doing straight hunchentoot?
2017-01-26T19:17:08Z Posterdati: I'm using hunchentoot as webserver for a custom application
2017-01-26T19:17:38Z azrazalea: Got it
2017-01-26T19:17:56Z titankiller quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T19:18:21Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T19:21:39Z pjb` joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:21:43Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T19:22:50Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:23:02Z macdavid313 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T19:23:30Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:24:14Z pjb` is now known as mati
2017-01-26T19:24:54Z zooey quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T19:25:15Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:31:47Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:32:51Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T19:33:09Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:36:03Z honeymead joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:36:17Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:39:29Z diogo_franco quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T19:43:03Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T19:43:06Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:45:11Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:45:33Z rjid left #lisp
2017-01-26T19:45:57Z beaky quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-26T19:46:40Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:46:45Z beaky joined #lisp
2017-01-26T19:54:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T19:56:02Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T20:06:32Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-26T20:07:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T20:07:46Z antoszka: azrazalea: if you're coming from the Ruby world, you might want to look at ningle as well (sinatra style dispatch).
2017-01-26T20:08:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T20:15:32Z phoe_: Time for me to wake up and notice that the ELS is coming.
2017-01-26T20:15:54Z phoe_ goes to dust CLUS off
2017-01-26T20:17:25Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-26T20:18:10Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T20:18:14Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-26T20:18:27Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T20:20:18Z phoe_: clhs make-array
2017-01-26T20:20:18Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_ar.htm
2017-01-26T20:20:59Z phoe_: parsing moloch documentations like that is tedioussssss
2017-01-26T20:23:50Z shka: not that bad
2017-01-26T20:24:33Z phoe_: shka: not that bad, yes, but the spec has a few functions like that
2017-01-26T20:24:38Z phoe_: which are pretty fscking huge
2017-01-26T20:24:55Z shka: well, sure
2017-01-26T20:25:03Z shka: but make-array is just sophisticated
2017-01-26T20:25:10Z shka: because arrays are sophisticated
2017-01-26T20:25:48Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-26T20:27:09Z phoe_: right
2017-01-26T20:27:36Z phoe_: and suddenly, I need to anyhow grasp Lisp arrays in order to be able to make sure I format this correctly and not make any stupid mistakes there
2017-01-26T20:28:43Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T20:30:31Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T20:31:13Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-26T20:31:57Z lisp229 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T20:32:16Z shka: it would be nice to have those in some basic, unified markup format
2017-01-26T20:32:24Z lisp229 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-26T20:33:06Z shka: so anyone would be able to generate TeX from it
2017-01-26T20:33:14Z shka: and have his own printed standard :-)
2017-01-26T20:34:36Z honeymead_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T20:34:50Z phoe_: shka: TeX is already available
2017-01-26T20:34:54Z phoe_: I'm parsing it right now.
2017-01-26T20:34:58Z shka: aaah
2017-01-26T20:34:59Z shka: ok :D
2017-01-26T20:35:18Z razzy: I am looking for _very_ simple functional language for developing neural networks. Common_lisp seems to have lots of historical baggage. Do you have suggestion? arc? scheme? picolisp? racket?
2017-01-26T20:35:48Z phoe_: razzy: _very_ simple? scheme might suit you.
2017-01-26T20:36:13Z phoe_: About CL, it's not about historical baggage - it's about the fact that CL was developed as a language for writing actual production software.
2017-01-26T20:36:40Z phoe_: So expect it to have a lot of details about compiling, lots of details about arrays, lots of details in its object system and so on.
2017-01-26T20:37:00Z phoe_: Smaller languages like various Scheme revisions omit a lot of that for the sake of brevity.
2017-01-26T20:37:12Z S1ohy: Common Lisp can be a small language.
2017-01-26T20:37:15Z S1ohy: In your head of course.
2017-01-26T20:37:23Z S1ohy: Not like you need to know every little function.
2017-01-26T20:37:23Z honeymead quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T20:37:25Z S1ohy: Lol
2017-01-26T20:37:26Z dlowe: razzy: you might have better luck in ##lisp
2017-01-26T20:37:42Z dlowe: Ask a CL channel what they prefer and you'll get CL as an answer
2017-01-26T20:38:08Z phoe_: dlowe: not really
2017-01-26T20:38:09Z razzy: phoe_: so the baggage is not historical but from production?
2017-01-26T20:38:12Z phoe_: I just suggested Scheme :P
2017-01-26T20:38:25Z phoe_: razzy: I'm going to lie if I say that CL has *completely no* historical baggage.
2017-01-26T20:38:52Z razzy: I am banking on honesty and courtesy of community
2017-01-26T20:38:53Z phoe_: Because there are obvious things that are in for compatibility reasons with dialects forgotten now.
2017-01-26T20:39:01Z dlowe: phoe_: I am so defeated in argument. I don't know how I'm breathing now.
2017-01-26T20:39:23Z phoe_: But CL is a pretty damn big language with lots of functionality hidden in it and its extensions.
2017-01-26T20:39:46Z phoe_: If you're looking for a language with a tiny standard that you can grasp quickly, CL is not a good choice.
2017-01-26T20:40:30Z phoe_: AFAIR the book Common Lisp the Language 2nd edition is 1000+ pages while R6RS standard is 60 pages, about a half of which are about how it treats numbers.
2017-01-26T20:41:06Z phoe_: I might have mixed up the Scheme revision, but one of its standards is 60 pages long.
2017-01-26T20:41:12Z razzy: phoe tiny standard, functional, lots of libraries :] good for neural networks :] (i am hoping)
2017-01-26T20:41:13Z akkad: how does one even approach writing an app in scheme and expect it to work on more than any given implementation
2017-01-26T20:41:44Z phoe_: akkad: that's a #scheme problem.
2017-01-26T20:41:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T20:42:00Z antoszka: razzy: The baggage is mostly in some naming and function application conventions, the popular compilers around are modern and of very high quality. So while Scheme/Racket (in some of their numerous variants) are definetly simpler, you lose the portability and compiler quality CL offers. Plus the community, of course ;)
2017-01-26T20:42:04Z akkad: well this is not #thelisp so all lisps apply :P
2017-01-26T20:42:24Z phoe_: akkad: surprisingly, ##lisp is a channel for all lisps. #lisp is a Common Lisp channel.
2017-01-26T20:42:38Z mhd quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-26T20:42:39Z mhd quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-26T20:42:44Z akkad: thus the use of the definitive article
2017-01-26T20:43:18Z razzy: phoe_: :D :D  #scheme problem :D
2017-01-26T20:43:19Z phoe_: razzy: CL does not have a tiny standard, it supports functional programming as well as other paradigms, it has a decent amount of libraries and I think it's as good for neural networks as it is for anything else, which is pretty darn good.
2017-01-26T20:43:22Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T20:44:00Z phoe_: razzy: well, not a Common Lisp one, anyway. CL programs tend to be portable, even in the lands where the standard does not reach - thanks to compatibility libraries.
2017-01-26T20:44:22Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-26T20:45:13Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T20:45:23Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T20:45:48Z phoe_: You want threads? bordeaux-threads works on many platforms and implementations. You want networking? usocket is cross-platform and cross-implementation, too.
2017-01-26T20:45:51Z phoe_: And so on.
2017-01-26T20:46:04Z akkad: yeah, preaching to the choir, brother phoe_
2017-01-26T20:46:11Z antoszka: lparallel, for that matter, but yeah :)
2017-01-26T20:47:42Z phoe_: antoszka: lparallel is a step upwards from bordeaux-threads and depends on it.
2017-01-26T20:48:44Z akkad: still need to get off pcall and onto lparallel
2017-01-26T20:49:29Z antoszka: phoe_: I realise that. It's just better to jump into that straight away.
2017-01-26T20:50:10Z phoe_: antoszka: I'd first suggest they learn some bordeaux-threads for realizing why they should be using lparallel instead.
2017-01-26T20:50:43Z phoe_: and for using the occasional #'MAKE-THREAD because it tends to be handy.
2017-01-26T20:50:48Z antoszka: nope
2017-01-26T20:51:22Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-26T20:52:51Z razzy: phoe_: what do you mean with cross-platform and cross-implemantation?
2017-01-26T20:53:02Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T20:53:25Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-26T20:54:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T20:56:47Z travv0: razzy: Runs on multiple operating systems and multiple CL implementations
2017-01-26T20:57:41Z PuercoPop: phoe_: Sorry for being pedantic, but portable has a specific meaning in the CLHS and bordeaux-threads is not portable. I think it is problematic that we use the same word for different things so I don't think it is uselessly pedantic
2017-01-26T20:58:41Z phoe_: PuercoPop: no problem.
2017-01-26T20:58:59Z pvaneynd_ joined #lisp
2017-01-26T20:59:30Z phoe_: I think cross-platform and cross-implementation are the words I'm looking for.
2017-01-26T20:59:37Z phoe_ BBL.
2017-01-26T20:59:43Z cebreidian quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T20:59:44Z omilu quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-26T21:00:24Z pvaneynd_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T21:00:34Z Fare: I had good experiences with lparallel
2017-01-26T21:00:57Z Fare: unlike, say, chanl.
2017-01-26T21:02:28Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T21:03:48Z space_otter joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:04:15Z razzy: ok then, CL it is :]
2017-01-26T21:04:24Z antoszka: Good choice :)
2017-01-26T21:05:09Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-26T21:06:01Z razzy: I have had temporary second thoughts :]
2017-01-26T21:06:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:07:15Z razzy: Do you have recent production success story for my colaborators??
2017-01-26T21:09:48Z Xach: http://pixelspeechbubble.com is powered by Common Lisp!
2017-01-26T21:09:58Z Xach: it is the #2 lisp-powered speech bubble site on the entire internet
2017-01-26T21:12:54Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:13:51Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:15:23Z Fare: what is #1 ?
2017-01-26T21:17:04Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-26T21:18:08Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T21:18:26Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:19:51Z antoszka: Maybe there's no #1 lisp-powered speech bubble site on the entire internet?
2017-01-26T21:22:07Z Xach: Fare: http://wigflip.com/ds/
2017-01-26T21:22:26Z Xach: Which I also made, but sold a few years ago.
2017-01-26T21:22:49Z akkad: You Always Have Other Options had some CL site they acquired
2017-01-26T21:24:55Z razzy: Xach: it is great! :D i had other things in mind :] but it is ok :]
2017-01-26T21:24:59Z azrazalea quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.2+deb2~bpo8+1 - http://znc.in)
2017-01-26T21:25:18Z azrazalea joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:25:31Z Xach: razzy: i demonstrated http://wigflip.com/roflbot/ in front of guy steele in 2009. it has all been downhill from there...
2017-01-26T21:26:10Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T21:26:25Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-26T21:26:29Z razzy: steele?
2017-01-26T21:26:39Z Fare: Xach: did they rewrite it all in C++ ?
2017-01-26T21:27:02Z Xach: razzy: oh, you are in for a treat. look up his name and publications and enjoy a few years of reading!
2017-01-26T21:29:01Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T21:29:03Z diogo_franco joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:30:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:35:19Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-26T21:35:53Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:38:26Z cebreidian joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:39:29Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:40:02Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T21:40:34Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T21:41:17Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-26T21:42:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:43:07Z cebreidian quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T21:43:09Z jason_m`` joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:44:37Z Posterdati: jdz: subclassing of formatted-message class does not work even if I use :before in format-message method
2017-01-26T21:45:14Z jason_m` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-26T21:46:53Z rjid left #lisp
2017-01-26T21:47:13Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:47:48Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:49:34Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T21:50:05Z maxirater joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:51:25Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T21:52:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T21:54:03Z maxirater quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-26T21:54:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:54:23Z maxirater joined #lisp
2017-01-26T21:56:29Z mattrepl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T21:57:48Z nowhereman is now known as nowhere_man
2017-01-26T21:58:04Z sirkmatija quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-26T22:04:05Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T22:04:19Z maxirater quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-26T22:04:39Z maxirater joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:04:59Z maxirater quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T22:05:03Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T22:05:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:06:08Z mati is now known as pjb
2017-01-26T22:06:36Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:15:03Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T22:15:49Z varjagg joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:16:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:17:41Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:23:58Z williamyaoh joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:24:42Z williamyaoh: Hey Xach, do you automatically sync Quicklisp distributions with updates to the project's repo?
2017-01-26T22:25:16Z phoe_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T22:26:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T22:26:18Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:26:22Z _rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:26:58Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:27:17Z phoe joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:28:34Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T22:31:55Z let42 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-26T22:38:16Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T22:38:53Z _rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T22:39:23Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:42:55Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:43:53Z vicfred quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-26T22:45:40Z omilu joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:46:02Z troydm quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-26T22:46:13Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:46:15Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:48:09Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:48:35Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:50:25Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T22:50:44Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:50:45Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-26T22:53:59Z mk2 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:54:20Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:54:39Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-26T22:54:48Z _rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:57:30Z mk2: I learned that I can use do-all-symbols to discover all the defined symbols. I'm only interested in the macros. How can I select those?
2017-01-26T22:57:36Z let42 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-26T22:57:58Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T22:57:58Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:58:03Z let42 joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:58:30Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T22:58:39Z let42 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-26T22:59:00Z pjb: mk2: (macro-function s)
2017-01-26T22:59:28Z _rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T22:59:35Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T23:00:12Z phoe: mk2:
2017-01-26T23:00:26Z phoe: (loop for x being the symbols of (find-package "CL") do (when (macro-function x) (print x)))
2017-01-26T23:00:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-26T23:00:59Z phoe: it's not DO-ALL-SYMBOLS but eh
2017-01-26T23:01:43Z mk2: pjb, phoe: Cool, it works! Thanks.
2017-01-26T23:01:48Z phoe: LOOP is fun because it's as much Lisp as it's English
2017-01-26T23:02:16Z phoe: and I can quickly type up something that just works
2017-01-26T23:02:16Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T23:02:25Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T23:02:49Z pjb quit (Quit: Be seeing you!)
2017-01-26T23:06:56Z PuercoPop: williamyaoh: it depends on the source listed in quicklis-projects. Some point toa repo. Others to a branch others to a tarball, etc
2017-01-26T23:08:37Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-26T23:09:39Z akkad: what would cause a function to just return it's doc string?
2017-01-26T23:10:17Z pillton: (defun my-func () "My doc string" ) vs (defun my-func () "My doc string" nil).
2017-01-26T23:11:23Z akkad: oic fell through from abcl did not have a catch all
2017-01-26T23:12:59Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-26T23:14:27Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T23:16:07Z mtd quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-26T23:23:19Z antoszka: I'd say this is much easier on the eyes: (do-symbols (k :cl) (when (macro-function k) (print k)))
2017-01-26T23:23:19Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-26T23:23:23Z mtd joined #lisp
2017-01-26T23:23:37Z antoszka: phoe, mk2 ^
2017-01-26T23:23:53Z phoe: antoszka: is, but I don't remember the syntax for DO-SYMBOLS
2017-01-26T23:24:18Z antoszka: There isn't much to remember :)
2017-01-26T23:24:21Z phoe: and I'm too lazy to type "clhs do-symbols"
2017-01-26T23:24:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T23:24:26Z phoe: but there is *something*
2017-01-26T23:25:58Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T23:28:08Z antoszka: Also, if i were LOOPing I'd probably COLLECT the symbols rather than just print them out into the void ;)
2017-01-26T23:29:59Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T23:30:46Z phoe: clhs ARRAY-IN-BOUNDS-P
2017-01-26T23:30:47Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_ar_in_.htm
2017-01-26T23:30:54Z phoe: WTF is STRING-CHAR?
2017-01-26T23:31:08Z phoe: (setq a (make-array '(7 11) :element-type 'string-char))
2017-01-26T23:31:10Z alphor quit (Quit: Bye!)
2017-01-26T23:31:17Z Bike: iirc it's an old name for base-char
2017-01-26T23:31:19Z alphor joined #lisp
2017-01-26T23:31:35Z phoe: it's a spec error. got it - thanks, Bike
2017-01-26T23:31:40Z phoe: I'll fix it as I go
2017-01-26T23:31:43Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T23:31:44Z mejja joined #lisp
2017-01-26T23:31:47Z Bike: examples are not normative (music sting)
2017-01-26T23:32:29Z Bike: yeah, string-char is mentioned in X3J13 CHARACTER-PROPOSAL:2-3-1 if you care
2017-01-26T23:32:52Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-26T23:34:47Z phoe: I know that the examples are probably the worst part of the specification, looking from the modern point of view
2017-01-26T23:35:11Z phoe: once I'm done with the initial parsing, I'll ask for user input about the examples
2017-01-26T23:35:30Z phoe: also, ugh
2017-01-26T23:35:32Z phoe: ([[CL:Macros:and]] ([[CL:Functions:not]] ([[CL:Functions:some]] #'[[CL:Functions:minusp]] ([[CL:Functions:list]] subscripts)))  ([[CL:Functions:every]] #'[[CL:Functions:less]] ([[CL:Functions:list]] subscripts) ([[CL:Functions:array-dimensions]] array)))
2017-01-26T23:35:33Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-26T23:35:48Z phoe: that's the worst line of wiki markup I've rewritten today
2017-01-26T23:36:00Z phoe takes a break
2017-01-26T23:36:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T23:42:10Z PuercoPop: phoe: how is the ultraspec going btw?
2017-01-26T23:42:59Z azrazalea: PuercoPop: phoe: Thanks for that, I was about to ask what phoe was working on. Now I know :)
2017-01-26T23:46:24Z cgdub quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-26T23:47:18Z azrazalea: Looking at the public stuff on ultraspec the live stuff appears to be behind if you are actively working on it? https://github.com/phoe/clus-data not updated in 8 months, still only chapter 14 at http://phoe.tymoon.eu/clus/doku.php, etc.
2017-01-26T23:47:54Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-26T23:49:40Z kodnin: Hee there, I've been trying for a couple of hours now but I can't get Common Lisp to play a simple MIDI note. Does anyone have experience with Common Lisp and MIDI? I'm on macOS and I've been trying several libraries from GitHub so far.
2017-01-26T23:49:45Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-26T23:49:54Z circ-user-ZCCmR joined #lisp
2017-01-26T23:50:04Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-26T23:51:05Z BusFactor1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-26T23:52:41Z antoszka: kodnin: if you pasted some code that'd be easier, we've no idea what libraries and in what way you're using
2017-01-26T23:53:41Z antoszka: kodnin: though I suspect you might have problems between your lisp image and your emulated serial devices -- perhaps only a permission problem
2017-01-26T23:55:11Z kodnin: antoszka: I'm playing around with https://github.com/chfin/cl-portmidi.
2017-01-26T23:56:08Z kodnin: antoszka: Loaded it via Quicklisp, I can see my devices, but when I do `(pm:write-short-midi *midi-out* 0 (pm:note-on 0 80))` it won't do anything.
2017-01-26T23:56:10Z phoe: PuercoPop: slowly
2017-01-26T23:56:22Z kodnin: antoszka: Could it be the timestamp that should be non-zero?
2017-01-26T23:56:24Z phoe: I just came back to working on it after about eight months of total silence
2017-01-26T23:56:35Z Xach: williamyaoh: it depends on how the project is fetched, but in general, yes
2017-01-26T23:56:40Z phoe: but I came back to it *at all*, which is a minor success
2017-01-26T23:56:51Z phoe: also, as I progress through the spec, more and more things are hitting me
2017-01-26T23:56:53Z kodnin: antoszka: Permission problems could also explain it, but how can I verify that?
2017-01-26T23:56:56Z phoe: clhs row-major-aref
2017-01-26T23:56:57Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_row_ma.htm
2017-01-26T23:57:03Z azrazalea: kodnin: Might try running it with sudo if you feel adventurous.
2017-01-26T23:57:11Z phoe: PuercoPop: imagine that this function, important and somewhat non-obvious, has *no* examples at all
2017-01-26T23:57:35Z phoe: which I find weird
2017-01-26T23:58:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-26T23:59:49Z antoszka: kodnin: I don't have any midi hardware at hand, so I wouldn't be able to verify anything the problems. I'm curious, how do you define your *midi-out*, though?
2017-01-26T23:59:59Z mk2 quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-27T00:00:31Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:00:49Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T00:01:12Z kodnin: azrazalea: sudo didn't do it for me.
2017-01-27T00:01:26Z azrazalea: kodnin: Most likely not permissions then.
2017-01-27T00:01:38Z kodnin: antoszka: how do you mean, define *midi-out*?
2017-01-27T00:01:49Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:01:53Z kodnin: antoszka: Like this? `(defvar *midi-out* (pm:open-output (pm:get-default-output-device-id) 1024 0))`
2017-01-27T00:03:04Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T00:03:12Z antoszka: kodnin: ah, okay, I can see it's using CFFI bindings to some libs
2017-01-27T00:04:19Z kodnin: antoszka: Yes. I installed portmidi via brew and I added the portmidi.dylib to the setup.lisp file from the repo.
2017-01-27T00:05:02Z kodnin: antoszka: Then it loads nicely, when I don't add it, it complains.
2017-01-27T00:05:27Z kodnin: azrazalea: Thanks for thinking along.
2017-01-27T00:07:39Z kodnin: antoszka: I'm also trying to log all MIDI events using https://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor/, but nothing pops up.
2017-01-27T00:08:08Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:09:11Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T00:09:51Z honeymead_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T00:10:11Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:10:12Z antoszka: hm
2017-01-27T00:11:07Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T00:11:25Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:11:30Z williamyaoh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T00:11:41Z antoszka: kodnin: silly idea: tried another CL implementation? like swapping ccl for sbcl or the other way round?
2017-01-27T00:12:38Z williamyaoh joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:12:56Z kodnin: antoszka: To clarify, with playing a MIDI note I mean playing a note from Common Lisp and using that event in a sequencer like Ableton Live. Not to an external instrument.
2017-01-27T00:13:09Z kodnin: antoszka: I'm on it.
2017-01-27T00:15:38Z antoszka: Yeah, shouldn't matter if the library handles the routing.
2017-01-27T00:16:02Z antoszka: Wonder if Common Music handles that automatically somehow.
2017-01-27T00:16:09Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-27T00:16:24Z antoszka: (without cl-portmidi)
2017-01-27T00:17:02Z phoe: (make-array 8 :fill-pointer 2 :initial-element 'sisyphus)
2017-01-27T00:17:07Z phoe: ahh, the ANSI CL examples
2017-01-27T00:17:27Z phoe is now known as SISYPHUS
2017-01-27T00:18:17Z kodnin: antoszka: CCL gives me this error: "Error: Unable to load any of the alternatives: ("libportmidi.so.0" "libportmidi.so" "libportmidi.dylib")".
2017-01-27T00:18:38Z kodnin: antoszka: SBCL is ok with those.
2017-01-27T00:19:07Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T00:19:24Z SISYPHUS: kodnin: did you try perhaps using CFFI to try and load these manually? try providing an absolute path.
2017-01-27T00:20:32Z antoszka: CCL also has some native ffi generator, though I've no idea how to use it.
2017-01-27T00:20:40Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:21:06Z dwchandler joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:21:25Z kodnin: SISYPHUS: I have no idea how CFFI works. I'm new to Common Lisp, learning the language, but just getting used to Quicklisp and so on.
2017-01-27T00:21:26Z PuercoPop: SISYPHUS: sure. Have you considered reducing the scope of the first iteration? Like for example, to a markup that considers xref'ing to different CL concepts, like function, function location or that a example lists all the symbols that it is an example of And then a wiki on top that would enable content contributions to slowly build up
2017-01-27T00:21:28Z dwchandler left #lisp
2017-01-27T00:23:19Z circ-user-ZCCmR quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T00:27:32Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:30:08Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:30:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T00:32:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:32:55Z antoszka: kodnin: interfacing libraries can be tricky :(
2017-01-27T00:33:19Z antoszka: and hard to debug. Though I'd be curious to find out why CCL can't load the library.
2017-01-27T00:34:51Z williamyaoh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T00:36:16Z kodnin: antoszka: Yes, meh. Thanks for your support!
2017-01-27T00:36:32Z SISYPHUS: PuercoPop: I have.
2017-01-27T00:36:50Z SISYPHUS: And no, I think that I can finish the whole spec before the ELS.
2017-01-27T00:37:08Z antoszka: kodnin: Sorry I can't help you more at this moment -- busy doing some audio editing on my windows box ;(
2017-01-27T00:37:09Z SISYPHUS: The functions are going rather smoothly once I get into the rhythm.
2017-01-27T00:37:38Z SISYPHUS chokes on the moloch file that contains Function BIT-AND, BIT-ANDC1, BIT-ANDC2, BIT-EQV, BIT-IOR, BIT-NAND, BIT-NOR, BIT-NOT, BIT-ORC1, BIT-ORC2, BIT-XOR
2017-01-27T00:37:43Z Benjx quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T00:37:51Z SISYPHUS: brb, this will take a while to digest
2017-01-27T00:38:43Z SISYPHUS is now known as phoe
2017-01-27T00:41:28Z phoe: sweet jesus nooooo, not the latex tables, nooooooooo
2017-01-27T00:42:16Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T00:44:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:46:54Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:46:59Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:51:22Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-27T00:54:35Z phoe: clhs bit-and
2017-01-27T00:54:35Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_bt_and.htm
2017-01-27T00:54:39Z dedmons joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:54:50Z phoe: the examples on this one are especially insane
2017-01-27T00:55:39Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T00:56:14Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T00:57:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T00:58:35Z PuercoPop wonders if there is going to be another ILC 
2017-01-27T00:58:37Z Mon_Ouie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T01:02:01Z diogo_franco quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T01:05:28Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T01:07:03Z mtd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T01:07:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T01:07:40Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-27T01:09:29Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:09:43Z Xach: hopefully in Portland, Maine
2017-01-27T01:11:38Z PuercoPop: anywhere in America. ELS is like an 18 hour flight for me. :'(
2017-01-27T01:11:58Z Xach: pity
2017-01-27T01:15:04Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T01:15:04Z kodnin quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2017-01-27T01:15:40Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:19:14Z akkad: when doing asdf:make-build on ecl, how do you get the dependencies like uiop into the bin?
2017-01-27T01:19:26Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-27T01:20:08Z akkad: code: https://gist.github.com/f561a715cfa4d29756251e06d1a9bfc7
2017-01-27T01:20:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:21:25Z phoe: YES!
2017-01-27T01:21:36Z phoe got the chapter about arrays working.
2017-01-27T01:21:40Z phoe: time for a commit.
2017-01-27T01:22:41Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:23:17Z phoe: committed.
2017-01-27T01:23:45Z phoe: http://phoe.tymoon.eu/clus/doku.php should pick up the changes within a day and *hopefully* will not break in the process.
2017-01-27T01:24:16Z jason_m`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T01:26:52Z Xach: interesting!
2017-01-27T01:27:13Z Xach: cl-irregsexp takes the most time to build for me, at 655 seconds. mcclim is #2 at 317 seconds.
2017-01-27T01:27:32Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-27T01:27:43Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T01:29:09Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:30:28Z macdavid313 quit (Quit: macdavid313)
2017-01-27T01:31:08Z mejja quit (Quit: \ No newline at end of file)
2017-01-27T01:31:36Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:32:30Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T01:32:41Z reverse_light joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:32:48Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:33:06Z Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337459 has more data
2017-01-27T01:33:19Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:33:29Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:34:28Z Xach: That's a little deceptive because of how building works
2017-01-27T01:34:40Z Xach: but the big ones are still big
2017-01-27T01:36:14Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T01:36:24Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:36:54Z PuercoPop: TIL gbbopen is in quicklisp!
2017-01-27T01:38:09Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T01:38:59Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:40:00Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:41:15Z Xach: things that are part of infrastructure for other projects are generally built early as a side-effect. so when it's their turn, the build is cached.
2017-01-27T01:41:42Z Xach: so something like ironclad, which takes a long time to build, doesn't get fully reflected in the lisppaste data
2017-01-27T01:41:57Z Xach wonders how he could better capture that sort of thing 
2017-01-27T01:42:31Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T01:43:16Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T01:43:29Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:43:33Z BusFactor1: How do you extract the error message from an error object caught with hander-case?  I want to print it, but I'm getting #<UNDEFINED-FUNCTION 402035077B> when i print the actual object.
2017-01-27T01:43:35Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T01:44:25Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:44:34Z Xach: BusFactor1: try princ or princ-to-string.
2017-01-27T01:44:47Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:44:52Z codemac joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:45:28Z Xach: here's how I remember: PRIN1 has a 1, so it is for computers, and PRINC has a C, which stands for Computer.
2017-01-27T01:45:35Z Xach: so, i never remember, because that is a bad mnemonic
2017-01-27T01:45:43Z Xach: but slowly I am remembering that princ is the one
2017-01-27T01:48:10Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-27T01:50:10Z codemac: is there any way to have defpackage "depends-on" line include a package from a subdirectory in the current project?
2017-01-27T01:50:17Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:50:25Z loke quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T01:51:05Z PuercoPop: codemac: defpackae doesn't have a depends-on clause? if you mean in the ASDF system definition sure. depends-on can refer to a module
2017-01-27T01:51:36Z PuercoPop: (IIRC it can only refer to a module so you have no choice)
2017-01-27T01:52:46Z codemac: PuercoPop: thank you for the correction, yes, the defsystem line. I'll look into what a "module" is.
2017-01-27T01:53:13Z PuercoPop: codemac: sec
2017-01-27T01:53:43Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T01:54:01Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T01:54:04Z PuercoPop: http://paste.lisp.org/+78DW
2017-01-27T01:54:32Z codemac: nice!
2017-01-27T01:54:42Z PuercoPop: it should components instead of :depends-on
2017-01-27T01:54:46Z Xach: BusFactor1: did you get what you want?
2017-01-27T01:55:21Z PuercoPop: so between the components in the same module they can depend on each other. But the 'outer' components can only depends on components on its own level, so subdir, but not bar or fubar
2017-01-27T01:55:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:55:42Z PuercoPop: IIRC
2017-01-27T01:56:18Z codemac: ok, can I ask another dumb question since you're helping out so much PuercoPop ? I have another project, and I want to run their 5am unit tests.. is there a way to do that from the command line? I'm very lost on cl unit testing.
2017-01-27T01:56:55Z codemac: I only know how to code common lisp for a specific corporate toolset, trying to learn the FOSS packaging stuff :) thanks for your help.
2017-01-27T01:57:30Z pillton: (asdf:test-system "system-name") generally works.
2017-01-27T01:58:46Z Xach: i have often mentioned to people how uncommon it is for people to say "i hate CL because I had to learn it for my job"
2017-01-27T01:58:56Z PuercoPop: codemac: use cl-launch for running stuff from the CLI. The easiest way is to setup the test-op to run your unit tests. Normally you would do that from the REPL though
2017-01-27T01:59:18Z Xach: user groups for people who hate their tools seem much different from typical CL user groups and gatherings
2017-01-27T01:59:20Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:59:39Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-27T01:59:59Z PuercoPop: you can checkout Djula's asd file and djula-test.asd to cargo cult it from
2017-01-27T02:00:20Z codemac: PuercoPop: My cult is a freakin' panamax cargo ship at this point. will do.
2017-01-27T02:01:29Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-27T02:01:51Z PuercoPop: the gist is that you have to define a test-op but because your package isn't loaded when the system definition is loaded you have to use uiop:symbol-call to call the entry point of your unit tests. (Or funcall + intern, but symbol-call is easier)
2017-01-27T02:05:26Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-27T02:05:57Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T02:07:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T02:10:23Z dpg joined #lisp
2017-01-27T02:14:55Z TruePika joined #lisp
2017-01-27T02:15:08Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-27T02:15:10Z TruePika: meh, I need to learn advanced stream mechanics
2017-01-27T02:16:04Z TruePika: I'm parsing a binary file, and I need to inflate some data in it; I found :DEFLATE on quicklisp...
2017-01-27T02:16:16Z Xach: I like and use deflate
2017-01-27T02:16:38Z TruePika: ...but the function I'd want to use, #'INFLATE-STREAM, needs an OUTPUT-STREAM to write the inflated data to
2017-01-27T02:16:57Z Xach: TruePika: do you want it in memory instead?
2017-01-27T02:17:01Z TruePika: I want that to be in memory
2017-01-27T02:17:02Z TruePika: yeah
2017-01-27T02:17:11Z Xach: TruePika: i have a couple questions!
2017-01-27T02:17:13Z TruePika: don't want to mess with temporary files in this project
2017-01-27T02:17:23Z codemac quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T02:17:41Z krwq joined #lisp
2017-01-27T02:17:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T02:17:48Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T02:18:07Z Xach: well, I guess I was able to answer my first question myself, so never mind that.
2017-01-27T02:18:25Z Xach: TruePika: flexi-streams is one easy way to get a binary output stream that results in an in-memory vector
2017-01-27T02:18:46Z TruePika: I see them in ql
2017-01-27T02:19:04Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T02:19:40Z TruePika: I had previously tried using a string in memory, with the character type (UNSIGNED-BYTE 8)
2017-01-27T02:19:48Z TruePika: yeah, that didn't work >_>
2017-01-27T02:20:02Z Xach: TruePika: flexi-streams is a library that gives you an in-memory (unsigned-byte 8) output stream.
2017-01-27T02:20:43Z mduggie joined #lisp
2017-01-27T02:28:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T02:29:27Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T02:29:32Z Fare: akkad, don't use make-build, use program-system and program-op
2017-01-27T02:30:29Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T02:31:05Z krwq: hey, cffi question - given a pointer to array of structures with nested substructures is there some convenient way to modify data?
2017-01-27T02:32:28Z phoe: oooh. General review of arrays finished.
2017-01-27T02:32:30Z dpg quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T02:32:43Z phoe: gosh, dokuwiki can break in *SO* many ways. hacking it is so fun and so bad at the same time.
2017-01-27T02:33:52Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T02:33:58Z phoe: and the IRC channel for it is so dead.
2017-01-27T02:34:37Z phoe: oh! http://phoe.tymoon.eu/clus/doku.php?id=clus:todo has the changes pulled.
2017-01-27T02:34:52Z phoe: they won't display properly and there still is some broken stuff, but the data for the arrays is generally there.
2017-01-27T02:35:01Z phoe: I'll fix the brokenness soon.
2017-01-27T02:35:03Z krwq: is the only way to play with cffi to use foreign-slot-pointer or is there some wrapper for some more convenient constructs?
2017-01-27T02:36:23Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T02:37:44Z azrazalea quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.2+deb2~bpo8+1 - http://znc.in)
2017-01-27T02:38:13Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T02:38:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T02:39:19Z TruePika: welp. Error detected during deflate decompression: Block length mismatch for stored block: LEN(2080) vs. NLEN(65535)!
2017-01-27T02:39:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T02:40:06Z Xach: TruePika: boo
2017-01-27T02:40:09Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-27T02:40:19Z TruePika: err
2017-01-27T02:40:32Z TruePika: maybe I should have used INFLATE-ZLIB-STREAM <_<
2017-01-27T02:40:57Z azrazalea joined #lisp
2017-01-27T02:41:17Z TruePika: ...nope, corrupted header there
2017-01-27T02:41:34Z TruePika: I guess time to validate where I'm actually starting reading the file
2017-01-27T02:43:05Z TruePika: I'm still not sure which function I'd use...
2017-01-27T02:43:28Z TruePika: The data itself is written by the C# class Ionic.Zlib.DeflateStream
2017-01-27T02:43:53Z azrazalea quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-27T02:45:22Z akkad: Fare: thanksk
2017-01-27T02:45:35Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-27T02:45:57Z ioa quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T02:47:49Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-27T02:50:13Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T02:50:14Z TruePika: it looks like I might not be reading a bit vector in correctly, which is then misaligning everything else
2017-01-27T02:50:48Z TruePika: ...yeah, I'm only reading a single byte >_>
2017-01-27T02:51:10Z phadthai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T02:51:25Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T02:52:09Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T02:53:35Z Peaches2 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T02:58:16Z arescorpio quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T02:59:06Z azrazalea joined #lisp
2017-01-27T03:01:56Z prole quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T03:02:56Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T03:03:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T03:04:40Z ahungry joined #lisp
2017-01-27T03:06:02Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T03:07:45Z phadthai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T03:10:29Z TruePika: hm, now the question is if I should use structures or classes for this...
2017-01-27T03:11:13Z TruePika: I presume structures generally have the smaller memory footprint per instance?
2017-01-27T03:11:38Z TruePika: (where all fields have data)
2017-01-27T03:12:11Z Bike: they can sometimes be packed, sure
2017-01-27T03:12:47Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T03:12:58Z TruePika: but their default accessors are messy, meh
2017-01-27T03:13:04Z phoe: TruePika: depends on how much you value space
2017-01-27T03:13:09Z TruePika: I'll probably just write generics and pretend they're classes
2017-01-27T03:13:15Z phoe: generally: go with CLOS
2017-01-27T03:13:24Z TruePika: phoe: I'll have hundreds of thousands of these in memory at once
2017-01-27T03:13:38Z phoe: TruePika: ...you might want to value space in this case
2017-01-27T03:13:43Z TruePika: maybe millions, IDK
2017-01-27T03:14:02Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T03:14:34Z Isaac joined #lisp
2017-01-27T03:14:41Z phoe: go grab structures then.
2017-01-27T03:15:15Z axion: TruePika: You may want to use fast-io if performance is important
2017-01-27T03:15:34Z TruePika: axion: this is a seperate part from reading the files
2017-01-27T03:15:37Z Sampuka quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T03:16:13Z TruePika: this is storing the inflated data in memory, in a usuable format
2017-01-27T03:16:39Z TruePika: (fun fact: the data is RLE'd before being deflated)
2017-01-27T03:17:12Z axion: structures have the added benefit that one can declare them as standard types, and have named types so to speak, for fast object-like arrays and such.
2017-01-27T03:17:38Z TruePika: axion: in CL or in fast-io?
2017-01-27T03:17:41Z axion: CL
2017-01-27T03:18:02Z TruePika: yeah, there's also the :INCLUDE which allows a very simple heirarchy
2017-01-27T03:18:56Z axion: a simple example http://paste.lisp.org/display/336028
2017-01-27T03:19:50Z TruePika: kinda reminds me of C unions
2017-01-27T03:19:56Z TruePika: slightly
2017-01-27T03:20:38Z TruePika: does that :CONSTRUCTOR let e.g. (VEC 1.0 2.0 3.0) make the structure?
2017-01-27T03:20:59Z TruePika: or err %VEC
2017-01-27T03:21:01Z axion: no it lets (%vec 1.0 2.0 3.0)
2017-01-27T03:21:31Z TruePika: just curious, not that this will _probably_ be of much help
2017-01-27T03:21:44Z axion: I define a standard #'VEC later that allows coercing from any numeric argument types
2017-01-27T03:22:16Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T03:22:32Z TruePika: I have a WORD and a couple BYTEs for each entry
2017-01-27T03:22:40Z TruePika: err those aren't Lisp types
2017-01-27T03:23:14Z TruePika: Theoretically, this all could pack into a DWORD, but at the cost of a slight bit of usuability
2017-01-27T03:24:20Z axion: It sounds like you are trying to do too much at a time when parsing binary files. Are you familiar with compiler theory at all? If not I could recommend some reading material
2017-01-27T03:24:22Z TruePika: err, it needs to be a bit bigger than a DWORD in any case, since there's a bit of type info I'm forgetting (outside of CL's type system)
2017-01-27T03:24:46Z TruePika: axion: The actual thing I'm doing is parsing a map file from Terraria
2017-01-27T03:25:08Z TruePika: I need an in-memory representation of the entire map, I'm trying to decide on how to store each tile in memory
2017-01-27T03:25:23Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T03:25:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-27T03:25:51Z axion: Right, and usually one first constructs a concrete syntax tree, though depending on the format it may be beneficial to begin with the abstract syntax tree
2017-01-27T03:26:37Z TruePika: I have general ideas, and the functions can be written to adapt to the underlying type
2017-01-27T03:26:48Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T03:26:51Z TruePika: I'm trying to determine that underlying type right now
2017-01-27T03:27:27Z TruePika: I guess I'll just throw together working code first, then optimize later
2017-01-27T03:27:45Z phoe: ^
2017-01-27T03:28:19Z TruePika: good thing I have "small" maps I can test with
2017-01-27T03:29:04Z axion: Good luck :)
2017-01-27T03:30:46Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T03:32:37Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T03:35:35Z Isaac quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T03:35:55Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T03:37:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T03:43:09Z oleo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T03:46:31Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T03:47:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-27T03:48:25Z jerme joined #lisp
2017-01-27T03:48:50Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T03:54:09Z DrCode quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T03:56:36Z phoe: okay
2017-01-27T03:56:38Z phoe: it's 5 AM
2017-01-27T03:56:49Z phoe: a very time to record a new kraklisp video
2017-01-27T03:57:21Z loke: phoe: kraklisp?
2017-01-27T03:58:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T04:00:04Z phoe: loke: yes, kraklisp.
2017-01-27T04:00:13Z loke: phoe: What is it?
2017-01-27T04:00:16Z loke: Can you eat it?
2017-01-27T04:00:29Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T04:00:32Z phoe: loke: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCymtXMj1M7cKiV9TKLoTtEg
2017-01-27T04:00:41Z krwq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T04:01:54Z loke: Cool
2017-01-27T04:02:09Z loke: Good thing: Nyan mode. Bad thing: Dark bacground
2017-01-27T04:03:33Z loke: phoe: I will now watch your ivdeos.
2017-01-27T04:04:08Z loke: I will watch them carefully, since I am incredibly sensitive to dark backgrounds. :-(
2017-01-27T04:04:43Z loke: ohh... It's in polish :-)
2017-01-27T04:04:59Z loke: Perhaps I should make videos in Swedish.
2017-01-27T04:05:29Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-27T04:06:18Z phoe: loke: sure thing. Lisp videos are Lisp videos.
2017-01-27T04:06:58Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-27T04:07:28Z loke: phoe: Are your target audience Polish developersw whoa re bad at English?
2017-01-27T04:09:41Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T04:09:47Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-27T04:10:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-27T04:11:32Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T04:16:34Z Peaches2 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-27T04:17:58Z phoe: loke: yes, in a way.
2017-01-27T04:18:18Z phoe: Generally Polish people.
2017-01-27T04:19:46Z loke: I'd say the number of Swedish developers who don't speak/understand English well is a rounding error.
2017-01-27T04:19:55Z loke: That's possibly not the case in Poland?
2017-01-27T04:21:30Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-27T04:22:51Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T04:26:21Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T04:29:41Z mduggie quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-27T04:33:58Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T04:34:06Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-27T04:34:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T04:34:25Z nrp3c quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-27T04:36:58Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-27T04:37:29Z S1ohy quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T04:38:23Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T04:40:21Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-27T04:44:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T04:44:25Z PuercoPop: does anyone know why SBCL posix/unix doesn't come with execv?
2017-01-27T04:45:47Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T04:46:03Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-27T04:46:23Z pillton: It isn't safe with threads enabled I think.
2017-01-27T04:48:40Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-27T04:48:45Z PuercoPop: a comment it above-run program hints at that. But then why do SLIME and StumpWM use it (through FFI) anyway?
2017-01-27T04:49:04Z PuercoPop: (specially SLIME)
2017-01-27T04:49:29Z pillton: I assume they only use it when threads aren't available.
2017-01-27T04:50:15Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T04:51:58Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-27T04:52:00Z PuercoPop: pillton: StumpWM has started using threads recently AFAIU :'( Maybe I should investigate
2017-01-27T04:53:23Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T04:54:30Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-27T04:55:42Z PuercoPop: beach: good morning beach
2017-01-27T04:56:11Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T04:57:31Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T04:58:08Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-27T05:01:31Z pillton: PuercoPop: Why does StumpWM need threads?
2017-01-27T05:02:30Z PuercoPop: pillton: 'We' (as in loke) have used them for a 'job queue'
2017-01-27T05:04:05Z PuercoPop: the job queue may have been part of the original event loop (io-loop) implementation. But my memory is hazy
2017-01-27T05:05:35Z pillton: I was just curious to see if it was to get around the problems of having two or more event loops.
2017-01-27T05:09:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-27T05:09:30Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T05:10:51Z djuber joined #lisp
2017-01-27T05:11:41Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-27T05:14:12Z phoe: loke: it's not really the case in Poland. I just started recording things in Polish and it stayed like that.
2017-01-27T05:14:30Z phoe: I'm not confident enough in speaking English in my videos. Perhaps it'll change sooner or later.
2017-01-27T05:14:34Z phoe: Hey beach!
2017-01-27T05:15:11Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-27T05:17:13Z space_otter joined #lisp
2017-01-27T05:19:18Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T05:19:35Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T05:19:45Z lambda-smith quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-27T05:19:56Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-27T05:22:11Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-27T05:26:00Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-27T05:26:35Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-27T05:30:58Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T05:31:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T05:41:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T05:42:56Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T05:44:25Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-27T05:45:38Z pvaneynd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T05:48:05Z eSVG joined #lisp
2017-01-27T05:52:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T05:54:00Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T05:54:42Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-27T05:57:29Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:00:13Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:00:13Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T06:00:13Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:01:46Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:02:50Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:04:25Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:04:25Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T06:04:49Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T06:05:45Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:06:02Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:08:02Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T06:11:32Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T06:13:22Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:14:43Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T06:15:16Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:16:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:16:55Z marusich joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:20:20Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T06:21:30Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:21:30Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T06:21:30Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:22:02Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T06:23:31Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:23:31Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T06:25:02Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:26:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-27T06:26:53Z heurist`_ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:27:52Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:29:08Z heurist` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T06:29:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T06:30:14Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:30:14Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T06:30:14Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:30:48Z heurist_ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:32:05Z heurist`_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T06:37:49Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:37:49Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T06:37:57Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T06:38:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:39:14Z TruePika: well, I got proof-of-concept working wonderfully
2017-01-27T06:39:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T06:40:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:43:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T06:44:08Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:44:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T06:44:08Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:45:18Z sirkmatija quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T06:48:31Z drl joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:48:32Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T06:48:45Z drl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T06:50:16Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:52:16Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T06:53:48Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T06:56:05Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T06:56:43Z adolf_stalin quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-27T06:57:21Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:00:55Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:01:05Z titankiller joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:03:13Z attila_lendvai quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-27T07:03:13Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:03:36Z attila_lendvai1 is now known as Guest9606
2017-01-27T07:04:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T07:05:31Z Guest9606 quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-27T07:05:38Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:05:48Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:07:23Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:09:27Z razzy: Over23: embargo btw, na IRC ma #lisp /names
2017-01-27T07:09:39Z razzy:  /names
2017-01-27T07:13:55Z beach: razzy: ?
2017-01-27T07:15:03Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T07:16:05Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:16:05Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T07:16:45Z razzy: well, do I remember more users on this channel? maybe around 800?
2017-01-27T07:17:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:17:27Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T07:17:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:19:48Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T07:20:18Z razzy: beach: random crap, sorry
2017-01-27T07:20:20Z flip214: I made a graph about the number of nicks once...
2017-01-27T07:20:28Z flip214: but that was ~8 years ago or so
2017-01-27T07:20:48Z beach: What information was represented in the graph?
2017-01-27T07:20:57Z razzy: flip214: may I see it?
2017-01-27T07:21:32Z razzy is interested in true value of lisp community vs python community
2017-01-27T07:22:43Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T07:23:11Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:23:24Z flip214: razzy: didn't find it now.
2017-01-27T07:25:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T07:25:40Z razzy: on github there is 160k repositaries of python, 1,5k repositories of common lisp
2017-01-27T07:25:59Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:26:15Z razzy: on IRC there are 500 members of #lisp and 1300 members of #python
2017-01-27T07:26:52Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:27:49Z phoe_: razzy: and?
2017-01-27T07:28:43Z phoe_: judging by that, looks like Python is only ~2.5x more popular than Common Lisp
2017-01-27T07:30:21Z razzy: phoe_: yes, from "healthiness community" point of view
2017-01-27T07:30:34Z phoe_: razzy: please elaborate
2017-01-27T07:31:17Z phoe_: what do you mean by "healthiness community"?
2017-01-27T07:31:39Z razzy: phoe_: healthy programmer community is meeting on IRC.
2017-01-27T07:31:51Z phoe_: hah
2017-01-27T07:34:07Z razzy: phoe_: on github, there are 80 times as much repositories of python. so, is it all crap from newbies?
2017-01-27T07:34:55Z razzy: 08:25 < razzy> on github there is 160k repositaries of python, 1,5k repositories of common lisp
2017-01-27T07:35:00Z phoe_: no idea. it might mean that Python is 80 times as popular than Common Lisp.
2017-01-27T07:35:34Z phoe_: also, 160/1.5 = 106.6
2017-01-27T07:35:44Z beach: Comparing the number of participants of #python and #lisp sounds to me like comparing the number of customers of the two restaurants McDonalds and "Chez Jean" in Bordeaux.
2017-01-27T07:35:56Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:37:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T07:38:29Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:40:10Z phoe_: This makes Python sound like it's a language with batteries included.
2017-01-27T07:40:20Z phoe_: Everyone constantly asking, "would you like fries with that?"
2017-01-27T07:42:58Z pent quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-27T07:42:58Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T07:43:34Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:43:34Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T07:43:34Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:45:54Z razzy: beach: oh, you aristocrat :]
2017-01-27T07:46:14Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:47:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T07:49:06Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:50:29Z beach: hmm.
2017-01-27T07:50:43Z o1e9 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:53:29Z fouric joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:55:23Z flip214: beach: what would #php be like, then? BurgerKing?
2017-01-27T07:55:23Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T07:56:52Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:56:55Z xaotuk joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:58:31Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-27T07:59:03Z beach: flip214: Good question.  I am not so familiar with fast-food restaurants.
2017-01-27T07:59:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T07:59:07Z phoe_: flip214: something that is a restaurant as much as php is a programming language.
2017-01-27T08:00:52Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:03:10Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:03:13Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:03:53Z Peaches2 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:03:56Z jackdaniel: razzy: measuring "community value" by quantity is like measuring the code quality by number of lines of code
2017-01-27T08:04:03Z jackdaniel: more the lines better the program is, right?
2017-01-27T08:04:09Z phoe_: jackdaniel: ouch
2017-01-27T08:04:11Z phoe_: that literally hurt
2017-01-27T08:04:15Z flip214: jackdaniel: the other way around. http://www.openfoundry.org/of/download/pyzope/1.0.0/article.pdf
2017-01-27T08:04:20Z phoe_: I imagined Java and was like instantly nope
2017-01-27T08:04:47Z jackdaniel: link is broken
2017-01-27T08:05:18Z jackdaniel: and my statement was an example how irrational such measurement is, not that I claim that more lines of code means better program
2017-01-27T08:06:38Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T08:08:38Z flip214: jackdaniel: http://web.archive.org/web/20161022092432/http://www.openfoundry.org/of/download/pyzope/1.0.0/article.pdf
2017-01-27T08:10:02Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:10:38Z razzy: jackdaniel: not really, code could be worthless or very valuable. People are different. People who are not dead, have inherent evolutionary value. And there is limit how valueable you could get in your life. You cannot be more than two times average.
2017-01-27T08:11:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-27T08:12:18Z phoe_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-27T08:13:02Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:13:08Z d4ryus4 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T08:14:18Z jackdaniel: This argument is nonsensical, because it make an assumption, that people doesn't change their taste with time and gained experience. Also, saying about "inherent evolutionary value" you speak about potential which is often wasted without any significant result (due to environment or personal choices)
2017-01-27T08:16:49Z razzy: jackdaniel: there is limit on how much experience you can get in your life. ~80 years. not much more. and you need to work with knowledge everybody gets.
2017-01-27T08:17:35Z jackdaniel: I agree with the statement, but I disagree it is relevant to the discussion
2017-01-27T08:18:04Z razzy: jackdaniel: my point is: measuring by number of people is _little_ more precise than measuring lines of code
2017-01-27T08:18:35Z mvilleneuve left #lisp
2017-01-27T08:18:46Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-27T08:20:29Z jackdaniel: imho both metrics are preposterous inadequate to the posed problem
2017-01-27T08:20:44Z jackdaniel: either way, I have things to do, have a nice day o/
2017-01-27T08:21:03Z jackdaniel: s/preposterous/preposterously/
2017-01-27T08:21:06Z razzy: yop :] i have no better
2017-01-27T08:24:05Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T08:24:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T08:25:25Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:26:11Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:26:28Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:30:29Z djuber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T08:31:06Z xaotuk quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T08:34:16Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:34:16Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:37:44Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-27T08:38:05Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:38:19Z marusich quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-27T08:47:53Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T08:48:47Z jackdaniel: grep -rn "parse-ignore-declaration"
2017-01-27T08:48:53Z jackdaniel: erm
2017-01-27T08:49:14Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:49:50Z jdz: Posterdati: You have to write a primary (not auxiliary) method on FORMAT-MESSAGE for your custom formatted message class.  And don't forget to pass it as :message-class initarg when instantiating log manager.
2017-01-27T08:50:32Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-27T08:52:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T08:53:05Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:53:45Z tetero joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:55:56Z teggi joined #lisp
2017-01-27T08:58:03Z Oddity quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T08:59:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T09:01:03Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:04:15Z phoe_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-27T09:08:11Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:08:11Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T09:09:08Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:09:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T09:09:08Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:10:56Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T09:11:28Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T09:12:03Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T09:12:23Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:15:09Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:15:12Z space_otter quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T09:15:14Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T09:16:34Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-27T09:16:42Z ioa joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:16:51Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:18:11Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:22:53Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T09:23:44Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:25:12Z NeverDie_ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:26:10Z NeverDie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T09:28:17Z Oddity joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:34:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T09:35:05Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:35:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:35:39Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:38:37Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:41:52Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:42:57Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:45:09Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T09:46:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:48:06Z NeverDie_ is now known as NeverDie
2017-01-27T09:50:29Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T09:56:08Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-27T09:57:40Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:57:50Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-27T09:58:48Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-27T10:01:13Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-27T10:08:03Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T10:09:14Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T10:10:30Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-27T10:20:03Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T10:20:48Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T10:21:00Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T10:23:27Z defaultxr quit (Quit: brb)
2017-01-27T10:24:37Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-27T10:29:03Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-27T10:32:05Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T10:32:15Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T10:32:33Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T10:33:28Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-27T10:38:11Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-27T10:42:31Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-27T10:43:56Z Posterdati: jdz: I did so!
2017-01-27T10:44:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T10:45:10Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T10:45:19Z jdz: Posterdati: well, it works for me.
2017-01-27T10:46:46Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-27T10:46:56Z Posterdati: jdz: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337494
2017-01-27T10:47:13Z Posterdati: change :after with :before
2017-01-27T10:48:28Z jdz: Posterdati: why do you extend cl-log:formatted-message, but your method definition does not have the package specified explicitly?
2017-01-27T10:48:36Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T10:49:06Z jdz: Andy why do you specify :message-class twice?
2017-01-27T10:49:16Z Posterdati: ;;
2017-01-27T10:49:32Z Posterdati: there's a ;; at the start of the line
2017-01-27T10:49:35Z test1600 quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-27T10:49:41Z jdz: Oh, right.  Weird place to put the comment characters.
2017-01-27T10:49:57Z jdz: (;; should be indented along with the code)
2017-01-27T10:50:39Z jdz: M-; (comment-dwim) command should do it by properly.
2017-01-27T10:51:19Z jdz: Posterdati: anyway, you _do not_ define an auxiliary method, because then, if it worked, you'd get two log lines for each log call.
2017-01-27T10:52:04Z Posterdati: no I get only the old log
2017-01-27T10:52:07Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-27T10:52:39Z jdz: Posterdati: currently my guess is that you're defining a method on a non-existing generic function -- you should be defining it for cl-log:format-message.  Do you not get a warning about automatically creating a generic function?
2017-01-27T10:53:14Z Posterdati: jdz: in fact there's no defgeneric for format-message
2017-01-27T10:53:43Z jdz: Posterdati: when you load cl-log, there is a cl-log:format-message generic function.
2017-01-27T10:54:05Z jdz: Are you sure you're defining your method for that generic function?
2017-01-27T10:54:38Z jdz: It seems to me you might not, because you're specifying packages explicitly in other places.
2017-01-27T10:54:46Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T10:55:02Z jdz: Posterdati: just try (defmethod cl-log:format-message ((self cas-formatted-message)) ...)
2017-01-27T10:55:15Z Posterdati: jdz: I did not find any generic function for format-message in cl-log.lisp
2017-01-27T10:55:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T10:55:30Z Posterdati: ok
2017-01-27T10:56:29Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T10:56:45Z jdz: Posterdati: it's there, in cl-log.lisp file (implicitly created by defmethod, not defgeneric).
2017-01-27T10:56:58Z Posterdati: ok
2017-01-27T10:57:08Z jdz: Would be nice if people used DEFGENERIC more...
2017-01-27T10:57:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T10:58:43Z splittist: jdz: would be a fairly simple editor command, no? M-x gen-my-meth ...
2017-01-27T10:59:28Z jdz: splittist: yes, maybe.  But what I would rather like is that people would think in terms of protocols from the start.
2017-01-27T10:59:47Z splittist: jdz: tru dat
2017-01-27T11:02:07Z Posterdati: jdz: worked! Thanks
2017-01-27T11:02:17Z jdz: Posterdati: yay!
2017-01-27T11:03:07Z Posterdati: ok
2017-01-27T11:04:00Z Posterdati: jdz: now I will include your contribute in my code! :)
2017-01-27T11:04:09Z Mon_Ouie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T11:04:36Z jdz: Posterdati: did you get my permission in writing to do so?
2017-01-27T11:05:00Z Posterdati: jdz: it is not implicit?
2017-01-27T11:05:02Z jdz: Posterdati: anyway, I did not contribute any code.  Maybe a package prefix :)
2017-01-27T11:05:12Z Posterdati: :)
2017-01-27T11:05:21Z jdz: I just hope you learned something to day.
2017-01-27T11:05:48Z diogo_franco joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:05:55Z loke quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T11:06:12Z Posterdati: lol
2017-01-27T11:06:35Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-27T11:08:15Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:08:32Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-27T11:09:09Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:10:11Z M-Illandan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T11:10:12Z RichardPaulBck[m quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T11:10:12Z M-herah quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T11:10:12Z harlequin78[m] quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T11:10:49Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:18:09Z deank quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-27T11:18:11Z satran joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:18:12Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:18:30Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T11:19:18Z RichardPaulBck[m joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:19:41Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T11:19:59Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:22:08Z Posterdati: jdz: behold! --> Jan 27 2017 12:15:36 (-1) INFO Fregna!
2017-01-27T11:22:52Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T11:23:27Z eSVG quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T11:28:45Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T11:29:32Z M-herah joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:29:32Z M-Illandan joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:29:39Z harlequin78[m] joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:30:13Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:31:28Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T11:35:45Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T11:37:14Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:38:50Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:39:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T11:39:52Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T11:40:48Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:43:17Z shymega quit (Quit: So long, and thanks for all the talking doors.)
2017-01-27T11:43:48Z shymega joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:49:52Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:50:07Z shka: hey alll
2017-01-27T11:50:35Z beach: Hello shka.
2017-01-27T11:51:07Z shka: is there any package that would allow me to get number of arguments that function accepts on implementations that support that?
2017-01-27T11:51:12Z shka: beach: good day beach!
2017-01-27T11:51:45Z shka: sb-introspect basicly does that, but it is sbcl specific
2017-01-27T11:52:09Z phoe_: shka: yes
2017-01-27T11:52:15Z phoe_: gimme a moment, I'll fetch it for you
2017-01-27T11:52:15Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T11:52:21Z shka: awesome!
2017-01-27T11:52:23Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-27T11:52:23Z shka: phoe_: thanks!
2017-01-27T11:52:35Z phoe_: https://github.com/Shinmera/trivial-arguments
2017-01-27T11:52:41Z shka: superb!
2017-01-27T11:52:47Z phoe_: basically
2017-01-27T11:52:49Z shka: :D
2017-01-27T11:52:52Z phoe_: this attempts one of two things
2017-01-27T11:52:58Z phoe_: either do the implementation-dependent way
2017-01-27T11:53:01Z phoe_: or fall back on SWANK
2017-01-27T11:53:04Z phoe_: or fail miserably
2017-01-27T11:53:22Z shka: ok
2017-01-27T11:53:25Z shka: that works
2017-01-27T11:53:27Z shka: thanks
2017-01-27T11:53:44Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:56:20Z phoe_: <3
2017-01-27T11:56:50Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-27T11:58:29Z titankiller quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T11:58:30Z tetero: Do people generally use emacs+slime as is (the slime buffer being more like an editable text-window than a repl) or in another way?
2017-01-27T11:59:07Z tetero: Or some other IDE altogether? Or develop in the repl itself?
2017-01-27T11:59:53Z flip214: tetero: vim + slimv is an option (for VIM people), too
2017-01-27T12:00:50Z tetero: Yeah I have that installed already (I'm a vim person) but I find it to not be all that great
2017-01-27T12:00:57Z tetero: slimv that is
2017-01-27T12:01:23Z Xach: tetero: slime includes a repl. i use it as a repl. code buffers are treated differently.
2017-01-27T12:02:51Z tetero: Xach: Yeah, but the buffer that contains the slime repl when I M-x slime is like an interactive text editor window. I.e. you can move your cursor and start editing text above the REPL prompt
2017-01-27T12:03:14Z tetero: I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or if that's just how it is
2017-01-27T12:03:25Z tetero: It does work, to be clear.
2017-01-27T12:03:33Z Xach: tetero: yes...that's handy for navigating for cut and paste, but not something you would actually edit or change.
2017-01-27T12:05:05Z tetero: Yeah but you can change it which is a bit annoying. I'd love for there to be a mode where your cursor would return to the REPL prompt
2017-01-27T12:05:10Z ogamita: tetero: each C-x C-e or C-x C-l etc command in a lisp buffer is evaluated in a different thread by swank.  On the other hand, all the expresions you give to the slime-repl are evaluated by the same thread.
2017-01-27T12:05:23Z Xach: tetero: I use M-> for that.
2017-01-27T12:05:39Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T12:05:58Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:05:59Z tetero: Xach: Ah. Thanks for that. I'm still learning emacs. I know there's evil but I figured I'd give native emacs a try first
2017-01-27T12:06:38Z tetero: ogamita: Oh
2017-01-27T12:07:33Z ogamita: tetero: in general, it doesn't matter; but depending on what you evaluate, it might.
2017-01-27T12:08:24Z TMA: tetero: I have tried that approach several years ago - it caused me to abort the mission - too many things to take care of at once
2017-01-27T12:09:04Z pent joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:10:41Z satran quit (Quit: satran)
2017-01-27T12:11:27Z satran joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:14:27Z tetero: TMA: The 'learn emacs' approach?
2017-01-27T12:15:11Z sjl: tetero: I use neovim with the repl in a neovim terminal window, and running an NREPL server to eval code, look up docs, macroexpand, etc etc
2017-01-27T12:15:23Z tetero: ogamita: Yeah but it's good to know nonetheless. Not knowing things like this I can foresee biting me in the ass at some point just like not knowing elisp's dynamic vs lexical scope
2017-01-27T12:15:27Z sjl: it's janky but it works fine for my needs
2017-01-27T12:15:58Z sjl: I tried slimv for a while but it felt too heavy and buggy
2017-01-27T12:15:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T12:16:00Z tetero: sjl: Interesting! I've yet to try out neovim. Can I take a look at your dotfiles?
2017-01-27T12:16:39Z sjl: <something something stare into the abyss> https://bitbucket.org/sjl/dotfiles/src
2017-01-27T12:17:11Z sjl: oh hey my vimrc is under 3k lines again after last weeks cleanup
2017-01-27T12:17:14Z tetero: sjl: Thanks a bunch :) I'm gonna set up a neovim environment as well
2017-01-27T12:17:19Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:17:35Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T12:17:42Z sjl: yeah running SBCL+rlwrap in a neovim terminal works pretty nicely
2017-01-27T12:17:59Z tetero: Ah, yeah I already use rlwrap+sbcl
2017-01-27T12:18:01Z sjl: and even using ncurses with cl-charms works perfectly
2017-01-27T12:18:23Z sjl: I wrote a couple of ascii games in CL with it and it was pretty cool to have the game actually running inside the editor
2017-01-27T12:18:34Z tetero: neovim with that is probably nicer than vim+slimv
2017-01-27T12:19:15Z tetero: sjl: Cool. Reminds me a bit of the story of GOAL (Game Oriented Assembly Lisp) that naughty dog used to develop.. I think it was Crash Bandicoot?
2017-01-27T12:19:16Z sjl: yeah neovim wasn't around back when slimv was created so slimv implemented its own REPL, which never really worked quite right
2017-01-27T12:19:37Z tetero: Aye. I've been meaning to check out neovim for some time now
2017-01-27T12:19:48Z raynold[here] quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-27T12:19:53Z sjl: I think it was Jak and Daxter but yeah
2017-01-27T12:20:13Z tetero: I think it was both!
2017-01-27T12:20:26Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:20:28Z sjl: ah yeah probably
2017-01-27T12:20:43Z phoe_: tetero: http://all-things-andy-gavin.com/2011/03/12/making-crash-bandicoot-gool-part-9/
2017-01-27T12:20:45Z tetero: I also recall there being GOOL and GOAL but I don't remember the differences
2017-01-27T12:21:16Z tetero: phoe_: Yeah that's the article I read! It was really fascinating
2017-01-27T12:21:27Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-27T12:23:21Z ggole joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:27:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T12:28:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:29:13Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:29:36Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:31:31Z notzmv joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:31:39Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T12:35:02Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:35:03Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T12:35:53Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:39:50Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T12:40:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T12:40:44Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:40:45Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T12:40:45Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:41:07Z malice`: Can I define methods that specialize on anonymous classes?
2017-01-27T12:41:10Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T12:42:03Z ghard joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:42:19Z flip214: malice`: are that classes with a GENSYM?
2017-01-27T12:42:27Z malice`: ?
2017-01-27T12:42:41Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:42:42Z malice`: I don't think so, these are just anonymous classes
2017-01-27T12:42:50Z malice`: flip214: what do you mean exactly?
2017-01-27T12:42:54Z malice`: (defclass (gensym)) ?
2017-01-27T12:43:21Z flip214: how are they anonymous, then?
2017-01-27T12:43:23Z jackdaniel: (defmacro defclass* (&rest body) `(defclass ,(gensym) ,@body)) ;
2017-01-27T12:43:32Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:43:54Z malice`: (defparameter *x* (make-instance 'standard-class :direct-slots '((:name x))))
2017-01-27T12:44:02Z malice`: *x* is an instance of anonymous standard-class
2017-01-27T12:44:36Z malice`: (progn (defparameter y (make-instance *x*)) (setf (slot-value y 'x) 5) (print (slot-value y 'x)))
2017-01-27T12:44:38Z malice`: => 5
2017-01-27T12:45:06Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T12:45:23Z flip214: malice`: (defmethod foo ((object #.(class-of *x*)))) ??
2017-01-27T12:45:42Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T12:46:16Z flip214: malice`: (defmethod foo ((object (eql *x*)))) ?
2017-01-27T12:46:47Z ogamita: flip214: #.(class-of is undefined: parameter-specializer-name::= symbol | (eql eql-specializer-form)
2017-01-27T12:47:00Z malice`: I believe it doesn't work, the first attempt, as having *X* as an anonymous class an X as an instance of this class and defining method as you said doesn't work for me...
2017-01-27T12:47:32Z ogamita: flip214: just give a gensym name to your anon class and use it!
2017-01-27T12:47:36Z malice`: and second one doesn't work as well
2017-01-27T12:47:54Z malice`: Plus, we'd specialize it on the class of x
2017-01-27T12:48:14Z phoe_: malice`: AFAIK yes, you can, except that you need to dive into MOP for that
2017-01-27T12:48:16Z malice`: I mean, you would need to get an instance of standard-class that is *x*, not instance of *x*
2017-01-27T12:48:26Z malice`: phoe_: gonna happen soon
2017-01-27T12:48:42Z malice`: ogamita: I believe you wanted to talk to me :)
2017-01-27T12:48:46Z malice`: I asked the question
2017-01-27T12:49:05Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:49:05Z Trystam quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T12:49:05Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:49:11Z ggole_ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:49:18Z phoe_: something is going to call a method to get a class at some point, and you can provide your anonymous class object as the argument there
2017-01-27T12:51:05Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-27T12:51:29Z Trystam is now known as Tristam
2017-01-27T12:52:18Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T12:53:57Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T12:53:57Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T12:54:53Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:55:35Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:55:54Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:55:54Z Trystam quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T12:55:54Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-27T12:58:32Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T12:58:48Z Trystam is now known as Tristam
2017-01-27T13:01:50Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T13:02:16Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:02:39Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:02:39Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T13:02:39Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:03:52Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:06:02Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T13:07:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:09:32Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T13:10:53Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:10:59Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:14:29Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T13:15:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:15:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T13:15:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:16:17Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T13:17:00Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:17:12Z ggole__ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:17:45Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:17:50Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T13:18:09Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:19:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T13:20:03Z ggole_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T13:20:53Z freehck quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T13:21:46Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:21:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T13:21:46Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:23:44Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-27T13:24:41Z tetero quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-27T13:26:35Z whiteline quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T13:26:35Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T13:26:45Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T13:27:48Z ggole__ quit (Quit: ggole__)
2017-01-27T13:28:04Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:28:15Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T13:28:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:28:40Z eSVG joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:29:46Z paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:29:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:31:37Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:33:35Z notzmv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T13:33:35Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T13:34:03Z whiteline joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:34:21Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:34:57Z atgreen: I'm just getting started with slime.  So I've checked my project out github.. I have a foo.asd file.  In the slime repl, I suppose I should be able to hit ',' and load-system to load my program into the inferior lisp, but it seems I need to tell asdf about the directory it lives in.  Isn't there some convenient way to do this with slime?
2017-01-27T13:35:24Z atgreen: I was hoping it would automatically look in the current dir
2017-01-27T13:35:29Z malice`: atgreen: I suggest that you use quicklisp for that
2017-01-27T13:35:39Z malice`: (to load .asd projects)
2017-01-27T13:36:08Z malice`: atgreen: generally, you want to use ASDF to load the system
2017-01-27T13:36:11Z eSVG quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T13:36:14Z malice`: and ASDF has paths in which it looks for systems
2017-01-27T13:36:27Z malice`: You need to add a path. There are two common practices afaik
2017-01-27T13:36:53Z malice`: You can have a directory which hosts all your projects(e.g. ~/programming/lisp/) and keep all projects in there in separate folders
2017-01-27T13:36:58Z malice`: and tell ASDF too look for projects there
2017-01-27T13:37:16Z malice`: or symlink all the projects to ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ or something similar
2017-01-27T13:37:28Z malice`: (I don't remember the exact path)
2017-01-27T13:37:32Z malice`: atgreen: do you use quicklisp?
2017-01-27T13:37:35Z atgreen: yes
2017-01-27T13:37:57Z atgreen: I see ~/quicklisp/local-projects
2017-01-27T13:38:29Z malice`: atgreen: you can read http://lispyprogrammer.blogspot.com/2015/11/adding-your-directory-to-quicklisp.html
2017-01-27T13:38:39Z atgreen: thanks... reading now
2017-01-27T13:38:42Z malice`: It's an old article by me, and I believe my blog isn't too good(nor active)
2017-01-27T13:38:47Z malice`: but it should tell you how to set it up
2017-01-27T13:39:23Z diogo_franco quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T13:39:25Z atgreen: so then I should be able to go (ql:quickload 'myproject), right?
2017-01-27T13:39:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-27T13:40:28Z beach: malice`: Were you able to create a method that specializes on an anonymous class?
2017-01-27T13:40:52Z malice`: beach: I only tried the methods mentioned and I didn't succeed. Do you have a solution?
2017-01-27T13:40:53Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T13:40:57Z beach: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/initialization-of-method-metaobjects.html
2017-01-27T13:41:04Z malice`: atgreen: there is one more thing to remember
2017-01-27T13:41:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:41:23Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:41:23Z beach: malice`: Use MAKE-INSTANCE on the method class.
2017-01-27T13:41:47Z malice`: I believe ASDF looks for projects when it's loaded, so if you create a new project, it's possible that you will not find your new system.
2017-01-27T13:41:58Z malice`: So either restart the compiler(so ASDF loads once again)
2017-01-27T13:42:01Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T13:42:10Z malice`: or run (ql:register-local-projects)
2017-01-27T13:43:09Z atgreen: malice`, it worked like a charm.  thanks!
2017-01-27T13:43:27Z _paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:43:29Z malice`: atgreen: glad to help ;)
2017-01-27T13:43:34Z malice`: and promote my blog a bit :D
2017-01-27T13:44:10Z paul0 quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-27T13:44:13Z malice`: beach: thanks for the links
2017-01-27T13:44:14Z _paul0 is now known as paul0
2017-01-27T13:44:16Z malice`: link
2017-01-27T13:44:25Z malice`: I'll read about that when I get home, doesn't look too simple
2017-01-27T13:44:26Z diogo_franco joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:45:09Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:46:08Z phoe_: MOP ain't simple.
2017-01-27T13:46:42Z z3r0_ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:46:50Z z3r0_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T13:47:25Z malice`: T
2017-01-27T13:47:40Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:51:06Z Fare: asdf's source-registry is eager -- you can reload with (asdf:initialize-source-registry)
2017-01-27T13:52:37Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T13:53:37Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:54:08Z freehck joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:54:38Z notzmv joined #lisp
2017-01-27T13:55:26Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:04:20Z beach: malice`: http://paste.lisp.org/+78F7
2017-01-27T14:04:36Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T14:04:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:13:41Z Xach: beach: i timed builds of all projects in quicklisp, mcclim is #2 in duration
2017-01-27T14:14:45Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T14:14:51Z beach: Xach: Not surprising.  There is a lot of code in there.
2017-01-27T14:15:10Z beach: Which one is #1?
2017-01-27T14:15:16Z Xach: beach: yes. it would be interesting (perhaps only to me) to compare the source code volume vs the build duration.
2017-01-27T14:15:26Z Xach: beach: cl-irregsexp
2017-01-27T14:15:44Z Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337459 has more stats
2017-01-27T14:15:52Z beach: That would be an interesting comparison.  And then to do it for all projects.
2017-01-27T14:15:52Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:15:57Z Xach: for infrastructure projects (like alexandria) the timing is misleading
2017-01-27T14:16:13Z Xach: they are built as a side-effect, and when timed on their own, they build entirely from fasls.
2017-01-27T14:16:40Z Xach: i think i will try a build with fresh fasl caches per project.
2017-01-27T14:17:00Z beach: Oh, so timing for dependent systems is included?
2017-01-27T14:18:19Z Xach: beach: yes
2017-01-27T14:18:44Z jackdaniel: Xach: it's only mcclim, or maybe all systems found in mcclim release?
2017-01-27T14:18:44Z Xach: It is a bit of a jumble.
2017-01-27T14:19:03Z Xach: jackdaniel: that list has project-level granularity
2017-01-27T14:19:06Z jackdaniel: (like clim-listener)
2017-01-27T14:19:08Z Xach: jackdaniel: so all mcclim systems
2017-01-27T14:19:15Z jackdaniel: OK, thanks
2017-01-27T14:21:27Z reverse_light quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T14:21:33Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T14:22:12Z Nikotiini quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2017-01-27T14:22:33Z Nikotiini joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:26:09Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T14:26:45Z Peaches2 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T14:27:40Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:28:36Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-27T14:31:31Z teggi quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-27T14:33:06Z mrottenkolber1 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:33:10Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-27T14:33:52Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:34:45Z paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:36:38Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-27T14:39:01Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T14:39:38Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:40:15Z Fare: Xach: you could do a dependency-sort of the projects, then build them in order, so the dependent fasls are always present.
2017-01-27T14:40:48Z freehck quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T14:41:07Z Fare: Xach: although, to take into account defsystem-depends-on & co, you'd have to use asdf 3.3
2017-01-27T14:41:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:46:13Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:46:13Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T14:46:13Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:48:40Z pvaneynd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T14:50:14Z travv0 left #lisp
2017-01-27T14:52:17Z shwouchkster joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:52:45Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-27T14:53:12Z Sampuka joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:53:22Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:54:32Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T14:55:10Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-27T14:55:46Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T14:58:11Z Fare has a demo proposal for the upcoming asdf 3.3: https://github.com/fare/asdf2017 -- feedback appreciated (regarding the proposal and/or what you'd like to actually see at the demo)
2017-01-27T14:58:49Z tarragon: Fare: what does it do?\
2017-01-27T14:59:46Z atgreen: anybody here have success with trivial-ssh?  I can run remote commands, but uploading files results in errors deep under UIOP/STREAM:COPY-STREAM-TO-STREAM
2017-01-27T15:00:56Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:01:33Z atgreen: I'll open an issue on github
2017-01-27T15:02:25Z Fare: tarragon, read the article to know :-)
2017-01-27T15:02:42Z Fare: atgreen, what kind of errors?
2017-01-27T15:03:10Z atgreen: The value 115 is not of type CHARACTER.
2017-01-27T15:03:10Z atgreen:    [Condition of type TYPE-ERROR]
2017-01-27T15:03:10Z atgreen: Restarts:
2017-01-27T15:03:10Z atgreen:  0: [RETRY] Retry SLIME interactive evaluation request.
2017-01-27T15:03:10Z atgreen:  1: [*ABORT] Return to SLIME's top level.
2017-01-27T15:03:11Z atgreen:  2: [ABORT] abort thread (#<THREAD "worker" RUNNING {1007C043E3}>)
2017-01-27T15:03:13Z atgreen: Backtrace:
2017-01-27T15:03:15Z atgreen:   0: ((SB-IMPL::OPTIMIZED-DATA-VECTOR-SET CHARACTER) #<unavailable argument> #<unavailable argument> #<unavailable argument>)
2017-01-27T15:03:18Z atgreen:   1: (SB-IMPL::ANSI-STREAM-READ-SEQUENCE "
2017-01-27T15:03:27Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:05:18Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T15:06:37Z atgreen: hmm.. I can't paste beyond the " because it's all NULL (^@).
2017-01-27T15:06:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:08:45Z atgreen: http://paste.fedoraproject.org/537720/14855297/
2017-01-27T15:09:09Z atgreen: Fare, that pastebin ^^
2017-01-27T15:09:26Z dlowe: we also have paste.lisp.org
2017-01-27T15:09:50Z atgreen: on fedora I can paste from the command line with fpaste
2017-01-27T15:09:54Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-27T15:11:33Z Fare: atgreen, you probably want to copy using :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)
2017-01-27T15:11:36Z varjagg joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:13:26Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-27T15:14:12Z gacepa joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:14:23Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:14:40Z ogamita` joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:15:00Z ogamita quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T15:15:09Z beach` joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:15:24Z beach quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T15:15:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-27T15:16:43Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:16:45Z beach` is now known as beach
2017-01-27T15:16:50Z atgreen: Fare, you mean as a copy-stream-to-stream argument?  Yes, trivial-ssh doesn't do that
2017-01-27T15:17:24Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:17:48Z freehck joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:19:43Z malice` quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-27T15:20:05Z ioa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T15:20:09Z atgreen: Fare - that was it!
2017-01-27T15:20:10Z atgreen: thanks!
2017-01-27T15:20:19Z ioa joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:20:29Z beach: atgreen: Now you get to read and comment on his article.
2017-01-27T15:21:34Z atgreen: bookmarked
2017-01-27T15:21:59Z beach: You don't have very much time.  Deadline is Monday.
2017-01-27T15:22:33Z atgreen: I've got airport wait time today
2017-01-27T15:22:49Z beach: Perfect.
2017-01-27T15:24:14Z beach: Fare: I have my own articles to work on.  Otherwise, I would read it for you.  Now I need to distribute the work a bit.
2017-01-27T15:25:54Z atgreen: https://github.com/eudoxia0/trivial-ssh/issues/4
2017-01-27T15:26:27Z Fare: beach, where can I read your article?
2017-01-27T15:26:37Z Fare: plural?
2017-01-27T15:27:21Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-27T15:27:27Z arbv is now known as beach`
2017-01-27T15:27:37Z beach: Fare: If you want to read the two that are nearly finished, then that would be fine, but they have already been proofread, so don't feel you need to do it.  I meant distribute the work of proofreading your article.
2017-01-27T15:27:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T15:27:54Z Fare is reminded I have more articles to work on, including a revamp of my evolutionism essay with deadline tuesday
2017-01-27T15:27:56Z beach: http://metamodular.com/path-replication.pdf
2017-01-27T15:28:10Z beach: http://metamodular.com/sequence-functions.pdf
2017-01-27T15:29:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:29:23Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:29:38Z Fare: my asdf2017 article for els2017 (also due tuesday or wednesday) is proofread a lot by my 2 co-authors.
2017-01-27T15:29:53Z Fare: but I can always use more feedback.
2017-01-27T15:30:02Z beach: The deadline in Monday, but there is usually an extension.
2017-01-27T15:30:34Z Fare: my evolutionism article... I need to hurry if I want to get any feedback before submission
2017-01-27T15:31:12Z Fare: (~2/3 of first draft ready --- rewriting an essay from a few years back)
2017-01-27T15:35:03Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T15:35:04Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:35:08Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T15:36:33Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:37:31Z ogamita` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T15:38:52Z o1e9 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-27T15:39:10Z ogamita` joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:39:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T15:40:50Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:42:55Z paule32: hello
2017-01-27T15:43:04Z oleo: hello paule32
2017-01-27T15:43:08Z paule32: how can i create a list of words?
2017-01-27T15:43:10Z paule32: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/537743/31728148/
2017-01-27T15:44:03Z Fare: there's uiop:strcat already for you
2017-01-27T15:44:37Z Fare: and/or uiop:reduce/strcat
2017-01-27T15:45:31Z Fare: there's also a cl:read-delimited-list, or a uiop:split-string
2017-01-27T15:46:25Z Fare: paule32, and you seem confused as to the scope of your with-output-to-string
2017-01-27T15:48:35Z beach: paule32: The code is badly indented and the spacing is incorrect.  Common Lisp programmers rely on the indentation to be correct when they read code.  If you submit badly indented code. you force the other people to count parentheses, and that is not polite.
2017-01-27T15:49:57Z beach: paule32: Use a text editor that is capable of indenting Common Lisp code.  And respect the conventions that you see in other programs, such as those that you read in PCL.  For example, there is never any whitespace before `)' in correctly formatted code.
2017-01-27T15:53:00Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-27T15:53:17Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:53:46Z Fare: beach, in your sequence function, do you do replication at every call site, or only for the "main" implementation of each function?
2017-01-27T15:54:13Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:54:14Z Fare: (I probably would have found out by reading more carefully)
2017-01-27T15:54:25Z beach: Fare: Call sites are not involved.
2017-01-27T15:54:40Z beach: Just the function itself.
2017-01-27T15:55:02Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:55:37Z krasnal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T15:57:32Z Fare: ok
2017-01-27T15:57:48Z paule32: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337515
2017-01-27T15:58:15Z Fare: btw, which latex class file do you use? I was under the impression that I ought to use the new acmart file with sigplan subformat...
2017-01-27T15:58:27Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-27T15:59:11Z beach: Fare: \documentclass{sig-alternate-05-2015}
2017-01-27T15:59:54Z eSVG joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:01:26Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:02:01Z Fare: This page seems to suggest authors should already start using the new template, though the old ones are only deprecated in "Spring 2017"
2017-01-27T16:02:05Z Fare: http://www.acm.org/publications/proceedings-template
2017-01-27T16:02:47Z beach: Fare: OK, I'll look into that.  But not before submission date.
2017-01-27T16:03:05Z Fare: :-)
2017-01-27T16:03:11Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:03:27Z paule32: beach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337515
2017-01-27T16:03:32Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:03:32Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T16:03:32Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:03:39Z borodust: can maintainers of CFFI be found in #lisp?)
2017-01-27T16:03:58Z Fare: paule32, please comment each function with the expected input types, output types, and side-effects
2017-01-27T16:04:10Z Fare: and otherwise intention
2017-01-27T16:04:14Z beach: paule32: What editor do you use.  It is behaving very strange.  Sometimes it indents the branches of IF two columns, and sometimes four.  Sometimes it indents the body of a macro three columns, sometimes two.  And sometimes it does not indent the body at all.
2017-01-27T16:04:20Z Fare: borodust, not recently
2017-01-27T16:04:37Z Fare: paule32, for CL, use Emacs.
2017-01-27T16:04:40Z borodust: Fare: i see :(
2017-01-27T16:04:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T16:05:09Z Fare: borodust, attilalendvai sometimes shows us and he's a committer. I haven't seen luis in ages.
2017-01-27T16:05:26Z fe[nl]ix: borodust: yes, what's up ?
2017-01-27T16:05:45Z Fare: fe[nl]ix, oh, you're here!
2017-01-27T16:06:07Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:08:21Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:08:22Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-27T16:09:12Z krasnal joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:09:18Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-27T16:09:32Z beach: paule32: So what I am trying to say is that if you submit code for someone to read, and there is a single place where that someone sees that it is incorrectly indented, as I did in several places, then that someone can not trust that the code is correctly indented, because he or she suspects that it was indented manually.
2017-01-27T16:09:36Z beach: paule32: Therefore, in order to understand the code, he or she is forced to count parentheses.  So because you can not be bothered to use the right tools to indent your code, you instead require the #lisp participants to do all the hard work, even harder in fact, for you.
2017-01-27T16:09:59Z beach: paule32: Do you see why this is a problem?
2017-01-27T16:10:21Z borodust: fe[nl]ix: hi, i opened PR in github cffi repo, and was wondering if i should anything else
2017-01-27T16:10:46Z borodust: like tests, docs, etc
2017-01-27T16:11:02Z fe[nl]ix: borodust: definitely run the tests
2017-01-27T16:11:51Z borodust: fe[nl]ix: i mean, i did, i was wondering if i'm required to provide test cases that cover the ase
2017-01-27T16:11:53Z borodust: *case
2017-01-27T16:12:02Z paule32: how can i ident code in emacx ?
2017-01-27T16:12:21Z fe[nl]ix: borodust: that would be nice
2017-01-27T16:12:28Z ogamita`: C-M-\
2017-01-27T16:12:41Z ogamita`: M-q works too.
2017-01-27T16:12:58Z ogamita` is now known as ogamita
2017-01-27T16:13:42Z borodust: fe[nl]ix: i totally agree, but I would like to know if it get any traction before i invest time into writing tests for 3 lines of code :)
2017-01-27T16:14:10Z borodust: fe[nl]ix: i'm talking about https://github.com/cffi/cffi/pull/110
2017-01-27T16:16:04Z phoe_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-27T16:16:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-27T16:17:27Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:20:04Z beach: paule32: That is a very general question.  To answer it here would take at least dozens of pages of text.  The way you accomplish something like that is that you go read the manuals (for Emacs and SLIME), try things out, learn little by little.
2017-01-27T16:20:08Z beach: paule32: When you get stuck, you ask questions, perhaps here, but it is a very inefficient way to learn your basic tools and your programming language by asking elementary questions on IRC.
2017-01-27T16:21:18Z beach: paule32: What OS are you using?  What other programming languages do you know?  How long have you been programming?
2017-01-27T16:22:58Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:23:28Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T16:23:51Z raynold[here] joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:24:06Z ogamita quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-27T16:24:58Z rumbler31: Greetings all.  When I make an image with swank on a windows 10 box and use it on a windows 7 box, when I connect in slime I get a swank error.  I can make an image on windows 7 and connect to it just fine. anyone run into this before?  I've verified that I'm using the quicklisp version of slime and not accidentally pulling in one from melpa
2017-01-27T16:26:26Z beach: paule32: It looks to me like you are not really interested in learning Common Lisp and the conventions and tools used to write Common Lisp programs.  Instead, it looks to me like you are trying to solve a single problem and then go do something else.
2017-01-27T16:26:36Z beach: paule32: If that is the case, helping you out is a waste of time.  But if you can convince me that I am wrong, and that you really want to learn to program in Common Lisp, then I might be more willing to put in some time to help you.
2017-01-27T16:27:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-27T16:29:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:29:21Z mtd joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:30:56Z satran quit (Quit: satran)
2017-01-27T16:33:30Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:33:39Z Fare changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language <http://cliki.net/> <http://paste.lisp.org/new> logs:<http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/>|contact op if muted|SBCL 1.3.14, CMUCL 21b, ECL 16.1.3, CCL 1.11|ASDF 3.2.0
2017-01-27T16:34:47Z BusFacto_ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:35:35Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:36:34Z Fare: beach: in your local graph rewriting, do you revert back to non-inline function calls when no simplifications were found?
2017-01-27T16:37:21Z beach: Fare: There is no inlining going on.
2017-01-27T16:37:36Z beach: Fare: If the conditions are met, then there is always a simplification to be found.
2017-01-27T16:37:52Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:38:10Z beach: The conditions being D and I test the same thing; the variable is not assigned to between the two, and D dominates I.
2017-01-27T16:39:25Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-27T16:39:27Z Fare: that reminds me of the predicate typing of typed racket.
2017-01-27T16:39:41Z Fare: (and ACL2)
2017-01-27T16:39:54Z beach: The tests are not specifically for type checks.  They can be anything.
2017-01-27T16:40:23Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T16:40:24Z Fare: of course... just like in typed racket or acl2, to a large point.
2017-01-27T16:40:41Z beach: I wouldn't know.  I would have to take your word for it.
2017-01-27T16:40:49Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T16:41:00Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:41:13Z Fare: ok. Not enough cross-pollination :-(
2017-01-27T16:41:29Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:41:35Z eSVG quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T16:41:36Z beach: I suppose so, yes.
2017-01-27T16:41:52Z Sampuka left #lisp
2017-01-27T16:42:29Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T16:43:07Z Fare: in ACL2, there are no "types", really, but pure terminating predicates (everything is pure and terminating in acl2) that protect definitions from being applied to wrong arguments --- so you only have to prove termination of functions when called with correct arguments.
2017-01-27T16:43:44Z beach: Oh, I am not proving termination of the functions that this technique is applied to.
2017-01-27T16:44:06Z beach: They may or may not terminate.  It makes no difference.
2017-01-27T16:44:06Z Fare: in Typed Racket, I'm not sure exactly what are the restrictions on the predicates used, but "types" can correspond to pretty arbitrary predicates.
2017-01-27T16:45:01Z Fare: beach: do you rely on purity or something to commute graph nodes/arcs?
2017-01-27T16:45:02Z beach: This technique could be used in MIR code generated from C, but I had to put it in a Common Lisp perspective in order for it to be interesting to ELS.
2017-01-27T16:45:24Z beach: There are no restrictions on the kind of programs that can be treated.
2017-01-27T16:45:43Z beach: ... other than the conditions cited in the paper.
2017-01-27T16:46:27Z beach: If the preceding instruction does not assigned to the variable (directly or indirectly) then, the semantics are preserved.
2017-01-27T16:46:59Z Fare: so by "instructions", you have a non-extensible set of atomic graph labels?
2017-01-27T16:47:54Z Jubb joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:48:29Z beach: It is not as simple as that.  Instructions read and write data, and there is an arbitrary number of lexical variable possible.
2017-01-27T16:48:38Z beach: Not to mention constants.
2017-01-27T16:50:03Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T16:51:02Z dcluna quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T16:51:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:53:24Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T16:54:33Z paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:54:39Z Jubb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T16:54:53Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:55:18Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:56:06Z dcluna joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:57:09Z _paul0 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:59:13Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-27T16:59:23Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T16:59:26Z paul0 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T16:59:57Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:00:40Z codemac joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:02:33Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-27T17:02:49Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T17:03:07Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:03:38Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T17:07:01Z notzmv quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T17:07:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:07:52Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:10:53Z _paul0 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-27T17:11:10Z bigos quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T17:11:12Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-27T17:11:34Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:11:36Z beach: Fare: When you say "that reminds me of the predicate typing of typed racket", what is the "that" that you are referring to?
2017-01-27T17:12:10Z Jubb joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:12:43Z beach: Fare: I mean, I am not introducing anything that is not already in Common Lisp, and I didn't see any reference in predicate typing in Racket that has to do with optimizing execution time.
2017-01-27T17:13:15Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:13:43Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T17:14:02Z beach: Fare: I am interested because such a thing would be a typical remark from the referees.
2017-01-27T17:14:46Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-27T17:15:14Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:16:07Z codemac quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T17:22:15Z jasom: beach: well in general, for typed languages, predicate types are arbitrary tests that are run before type-erasure, so anything you prove statically about the code could be represented in a general enough predicate type system.
2017-01-27T17:24:28Z jasom is not super familiar with typed racket, but his understanding is that it's primarily oriented toward ensuring code-correctness statically rather than giving racket a performance boost
2017-01-27T17:24:36Z beach: That makes sense.
2017-01-27T17:24:58Z OTS_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-27T17:25:03Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T17:25:10Z beach: But I still don't see the relation to the paper, other than "this is a computation".
2017-01-27T17:25:48Z beach: Maybe I am putting too much into what Fare said.
2017-01-27T17:25:58Z jasom: beach: which paper was this, the path-replication one?
2017-01-27T17:26:04Z beach: Yes.
2017-01-27T17:26:53Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:27:08Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:29:28Z drusharp joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:31:24Z drusharp left #lisp
2017-01-27T17:33:29Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T17:33:39Z jasom: totally a personal preference, but if figs 2-10 were on their own dedicated pages and the text for sec. 3.2 was separated from it I find it more readable.
2017-01-27T17:34:07Z beach: Such stuff is tricky with LaTeX, but I'll see what I can do.
2017-01-27T17:34:21Z beach: I guess I could move the figures.
2017-01-27T17:34:24Z jasom: yeah.
2017-01-27T17:34:55Z beach: I need to see what my co-author says as well.
2017-01-27T17:37:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T17:38:45Z Fare: beach: well, it seems to me that typed racket can also eliminate redundant checks... that its entire purpose is to make all checks static inside a typed module, so only checks at the entrance/exit of the module
2017-01-27T17:38:52Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:39:51Z circ-user-ZCCmR joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:40:24Z rainfad_ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:42:50Z rainfad_ left #lisp
2017-01-27T17:43:18Z beach: Fare: SBCL also eliminates redundant checks, but not if doing so requires code replication.
2017-01-27T17:44:26Z beach: Fare: The standard situation is (progn (if test code1 code2) code3 (if test code4 code 5))
2017-01-27T17:44:35Z jasom: beach: at the end of section 3, I was thinking "this will explode code size" but I see you mention that in future work
2017-01-27T17:45:12Z jasom: other future work would be tests that are partially dominant (e.g. if Test A is True test B will be true, but if Test A is false, B may be true or false)
2017-01-27T17:45:27Z beach: jasom: I don't think it will make the code size explode in general. I don't think that there are huge overlapping regions of liveness.
2017-01-27T17:45:38Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T17:45:48Z jasom: beach: well that all depends on how good your liveness analysis is
2017-01-27T17:46:11Z beach: Maybe so.
2017-01-27T17:46:23Z beach: Yes, good point about future work.
2017-01-27T17:46:26Z jasom: I guess I spend my time in the guts of a compiler that is very much *not* SSA
2017-01-27T17:46:33Z jasom: which makes some of this much harder
2017-01-27T17:46:47Z beach: A bit, yes.
2017-01-27T17:47:25Z beach: SSA or similar makes the two tests have different variables if the original variable is assigned to in between the two tests.
2017-01-27T17:48:26Z josh5tone joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:48:35Z jasom: right wheras with non-SSA you need to search all pathways for an assignment to the temp
2017-01-27T17:48:52Z beach: Yes, which is exactly what the SSA conversion does.
2017-01-27T17:49:44Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T17:50:02Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:50:11Z beach: Fare: Do you think typed racket can turn that program into (if test (progn code1 code3 code4) (progn code2 code3 code5))?  If so, it would be interesting to know what technique they use.
2017-01-27T17:51:12Z beach: jasom: Here is another way of looking at it.  Right now, type declarations make the code faster.  With path replication, type declarations will make the code smaller.
2017-01-27T17:52:09Z jasom: beach: it seems like this technique could have a net increase on the number of instructions emitted, or am I wrong?  (obviously it will be a net decrease for the number of *executed* instructions)
2017-01-27T17:53:07Z beach: jasom: Yes, in general, the number of emitted instructions will be greater (not always, though).  And, yes, the number of executed instructions will always decrease when the technique is applicable.
2017-01-27T17:53:37Z jasom: so it still makes the code faster
2017-01-27T17:53:50Z jasom: and obviously not always since you reduce it by 1 in your example.
2017-01-27T17:53:53Z beach: Unless there are more cache misses.
2017-01-27T17:54:09Z jasom: right
2017-01-27T17:54:10Z beach: I think in the example there are fewer instructions.
2017-01-27T17:54:29Z jasom: will it always reduce the number of branches?  (I think so)
2017-01-27T17:54:42Z beach: Define "a branch"?
2017-01-27T17:54:46Z beach: A branch instruction?
2017-01-27T17:54:51Z jasom: yes
2017-01-27T17:54:52Z beach: If so, yes.
2017-01-27T17:55:17Z beach: That is why the optimization is important.
2017-01-27T17:55:27Z beach: Branch instructions can be problematic in modern processors.
2017-01-27T17:55:28Z jasom: because keeping the number of branches small saves space in branch prediction tables, which makes a big difference in highly pipelined CPUs
2017-01-27T17:55:38Z beach: Exactly.
2017-01-27T17:56:18Z jasom: Late P4 implementations are the extreme case where a worst-case mispredict could cause a 24 cycle stall
2017-01-27T17:56:51Z jasom: though that may have been ALU cycles, not external cycles (the ALU was clocked at twice the CPU clock)
2017-01-27T17:56:51Z beach: Yeah.  They are doing slightly better these days.  Shorter pipelines as I recall.
2017-01-27T17:58:19Z beach: I studied computer architecture with Jim Goodman, the inventor of the cache-coherence protocol and of speculative lock elision. :)
2017-01-27T17:58:27Z jasom: But your technique is quite elegant
2017-01-27T17:58:32Z beach: Thanks!
2017-01-27T17:58:53Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:59:27Z codemac joined #lisp
2017-01-27T17:59:31Z beach: My (admittedly small) family is telling me that dinner is ready.  I might check in briefly later.
2017-01-27T17:59:45Z jasom: beach: I'll be cone by then, so have a good evening!
2017-01-27T17:59:49Z jasom: s/cone/gone
2017-01-27T18:01:13Z PuercoPop: Is the [macro] 'expansion problem' (referred to in compiler/fopcompile.lisp) specific to SBCL?
2017-01-27T18:01:36Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-27T18:01:44Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T18:02:03Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T18:02:47Z Fare: beach: well, not sure about whether they would duplicate code3 or not.
2017-01-27T18:03:53Z pvaneynd_ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T18:04:12Z Fare: beach: bon appétit
2017-01-27T18:07:25Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T18:09:20Z josh5tone quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T18:09:43Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T18:10:03Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T18:11:09Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T18:12:36Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T18:15:36Z amused is now known as hydraz
2017-01-27T18:16:05Z MrWoohoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T18:17:04Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-27T18:20:28Z pvaneynd_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T18:22:07Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-27T18:22:54Z josh5tone joined #lisp
2017-01-27T18:24:02Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-27T18:24:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T18:25:22Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-27T18:27:43Z codemac quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T18:29:50Z gacepa quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-27T18:33:11Z circ-user-ZCCmR quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T18:34:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T18:36:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T18:40:06Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-27T18:40:23Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T18:45:05Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T18:46:49Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T18:47:07Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T18:50:28Z raynold[here] is now known as raynold
2017-01-27T18:51:36Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-27T18:56:02Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-27T18:56:03Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T18:57:24Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T18:57:26Z puchacz: hi, is there a string encoding where all but one ASCII characters are encoded as-is, but non-ASCII are encoded using this special ASCII character as escape and then say character number?
2017-01-27T18:57:52Z puchacz: this escape character must be somehow special so it does not interfere with SQL operators
2017-01-27T18:58:01Z puchacz: basically I have sqlite compiled without unicode support
2017-01-27T18:58:32Z puchacz: so I thought I would run all queries through an encoder but without parsing and thinking which parts are actual strings inside SQL statement
2017-01-27T18:59:02Z puchacz: just encode whole query and be reasonably sure only characters in strings are affected
2017-01-27T18:59:09Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:00:57Z dlowe: puchacz: if you care about SQL operators, you have already lost.
2017-01-27T19:01:02Z dlowe: Use parameterized queries.
2017-01-27T19:01:45Z puchacz: dlowe: are you sure all characters are used in SQL langauge? e.g. #
2017-01-27T19:02:04Z puchacz: or maybe | (pipe) are not
2017-01-27T19:02:36Z puchacz: after all I can use 2 characters as unicode escape sequence. unlikely ## is a part of SQL language
2017-01-27T19:03:48Z puchacz: as of parametrised queries, I have a lot of code that was geared towards postgres already. sqlite is an afterthought
2017-01-27T19:05:11Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:06:19Z puchacz: yeah. it seems I can do it myself
2017-01-27T19:06:27Z puchacz: #char-code#
2017-01-27T19:06:39Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:07:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T19:08:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:10:19Z atgreen: gah.. https://paste.fedoraproject.org/537835/44174148/
2017-01-27T19:15:03Z diogo_franco quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T19:16:52Z zygentoma quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T19:18:09Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T19:18:49Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T19:19:08Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T19:19:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:20:10Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-27T19:21:43Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T19:22:24Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-27T19:22:48Z karswell joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:23:35Z shka: heh, iterate previous value feature is weird
2017-01-27T19:24:01Z shka: or perhaps not weird
2017-01-27T19:24:11Z shka: but quite surprising
2017-01-27T19:24:19Z shka: and can bite you if you don't look
2017-01-27T19:24:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:25:03Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T19:27:04Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:27:08Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:27:31Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:28:49Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T19:29:33Z ioa quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T19:30:47Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:35:03Z zygentoma quit (Ping timeout: 259 seconds)
2017-01-27T19:35:42Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-27T19:36:00Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:39:45Z yawn_ joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:40:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-27T19:41:57Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:44:55Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:45:32Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T19:52:26Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-27T19:53:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:54:46Z hel-io joined #lisp
2017-01-27T19:58:44Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-27T20:01:12Z malice left #lisp
2017-01-27T20:04:45Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T20:05:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:09:22Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:12:53Z rumbler31: I'm trying to write an unwind-protect such that, if a lock is held when we're unwinding, then it is unlocked, otherwise do nothing (since it doesn't seem like you can have a mismatch in the number of calls to lock and unlock)
2017-01-27T20:13:16Z zygentoma quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-27T20:13:17Z rumbler31: I can't make use of a (with-lock-held form without reworking a bunch of code,
2017-01-27T20:14:10Z rumbler31: but if the lock is no longer held and we find ourselves unwinding, attempting to release the lock a second time will error out.  It would be nice to avoid handling the error upstream if I could simply check first
2017-01-27T20:15:40Z andrei_chiffa joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:16:20Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T20:16:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:19:19Z rumbler31: i suppose I could use a handler-case around the unlock...
2017-01-27T20:22:21Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:22:44Z malice: Is it possible that I will lose performance when defining a :type of slot?
2017-01-27T20:24:16Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:26:41Z Bike: i'd call it unlikely.
2017-01-27T20:28:10Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T20:28:16Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T20:28:29Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:30:33Z ioa joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:30:33Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:33:22Z malice: Actually I'd do so as well, since type doesn't prevent anything.
2017-01-27T20:33:26Z malice: What's the type for then?
2017-01-27T20:33:57Z malice: Oh, so it's undefined then.
2017-01-27T20:35:24Z rpav quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2017-01-27T20:36:41Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T20:37:31Z rpav joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:37:37Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:37:37Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T20:37:37Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:40:32Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T20:40:32Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T20:40:33Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:41:12Z Bike: what?
2017-01-27T20:42:04Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:42:45Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:43:23Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:44:56Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T20:46:02Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:46:02Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-27T20:46:02Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:46:17Z DougNYC joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:46:57Z eSVG joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:48:14Z jibanes quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T20:48:50Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T20:49:43Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T20:49:49Z jibanes joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:49:54Z quadresce` joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:51:20Z zygentoma quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T20:52:38Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T20:52:52Z quadresce quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T20:53:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T20:55:12Z pjb quit (Quit: Be seeing you!)
2017-01-27T20:56:24Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T20:57:04Z quadresce` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T20:59:18Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T21:05:02Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-27T21:06:56Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-27T21:08:44Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T21:09:07Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-27T21:09:15Z neuro_sys quit (Quit: ZNC - 1.6.0 - http://znc.in)
2017-01-27T21:11:07Z hel-io quit
2017-01-27T21:11:58Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-27T21:13:23Z rumbler31: i'm watching my inferior lisp load slime from the quicklisp installation, and I uninstalled the melpa version of slime, but when I open a fresh emacs and load slime, I get a version string that is old
2017-01-27T21:13:50Z ioa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-27T21:15:34Z Xach: rumbler31: where does it load from?
2017-01-27T21:15:56Z Xach: rumbler31: C-h f slime RET can help you drill down if you're not sure.
2017-01-27T21:17:10Z rumbler31: ~/dists/quicklisp/software/slime-v2.18/slime.el
2017-01-27T21:17:46Z Xach: rumbler31: what version string do you get?
2017-01-27T21:17:53Z Jubb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T21:18:20Z rumbler31: ; SLIME 2016-04-19
2017-01-27T21:18:31Z rumbler31: in the past, i've seen it report SLIME 2.18
2017-01-27T21:18:53Z Xach: rumbler31: that is the right thing to expect with that slime
2017-01-27T21:19:03Z Xach: rumbler31: the date is taken from the top of the ChangeLog file.
2017-01-27T21:19:13Z Xach: rumbler31: did some error or problem prompt your curiosity?
2017-01-27T21:19:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T21:20:23Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T21:20:44Z rumbler31: since i've seen it report 2.18 in the past, and also when I dumped an image with a swank server on windows 10 and ran it on windows 7 I got an error when connecting to the swank server
2017-01-27T21:21:50Z rumbler31: I had in the past pulled slime from melpa and undid the quicklisp-slime-helper configs, wanted to make sure it was correct,
2017-01-27T21:22:09Z rumbler31: i must have thought that 2.18 was related to when I installed with melpa but
2017-01-27T21:22:18Z Xach: I don't think I ever saw it say 2.18 personally.
2017-01-27T21:30:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T21:31:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T21:32:29Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T21:34:19Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T21:41:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-27T21:42:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T21:43:43Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-27T21:43:56Z ioa joined #lisp
2017-01-27T21:45:46Z quazimodo quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-27T21:46:04Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T21:50:15Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T21:51:03Z DougNYC quit
2017-01-27T21:51:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T21:51:45Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T21:53:00Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T21:55:31Z TruePika: wow, that was far easier than I thought it'd be
2017-01-27T21:56:04Z TruePika: I just finished writing a Powershell script which pulls data straight out of a .NET application, so it is usuable from my Lisp code
2017-01-27T21:56:26Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T22:04:13Z zygentoma quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T22:04:32Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T22:04:51Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T22:04:55Z TruePika: wow Github doesn't like this file  https://github.com/TruePikachu/terraria-map-dump/blob/master/game-info/188.sexp
2017-01-27T22:05:30Z TruePika: ...that said, I'd hate to see any sort of diff on it
2017-01-27T22:07:10Z aeth: TruePika: If it's not too late, use .sxp instead of .sexp as your s-expression extension. Yes, some website filters are *that* dumb and will just do a substring search for "sex", blocking things like "Middlesex" and "Sextant". By 2017, the better ones probably have a whitelist to work around the blacklist, which probably won't be random files on Github.
2017-01-27T22:07:38Z aeth: s/probably won't be/probably won't include/
2017-01-27T22:07:54Z TruePika: Github isn't censoring
2017-01-27T22:08:04Z andrei_chiffa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T22:08:07Z TruePika: it isn't wrapping this automatically-generated sexp
2017-01-27T22:08:19Z TruePika: 30KB, one line of text
2017-01-27T22:09:05Z aeth: right, Github is designed for source code, so it's more correct for it not to wrap
2017-01-27T22:09:44Z TruePika: that said, if there are filters matching /sex/, you might have problems with Lisp's sexpressions anyway
2017-01-27T22:09:54Z aeth: TruePika: What I do now is write-string instead of just write, so that I can properly format the s-expressions
2017-01-27T22:10:22Z aeth: s-expressions have a hyphen :-p
2017-01-27T22:10:40Z TruePika: Except the file was made using https://github.com/TruePikachu/terraria-map-dump/blob/master/dump-terraria-info.ps1
2017-01-27T22:11:37Z azrazalea: TruePika: That's cool, what are you going to do to/with the terraria map info with lisp?
2017-01-27T22:12:01Z TruePika: azrazalea: Stuff like rendering (current task), and eventually locating missed chests/statues/ores/etc.
2017-01-27T22:12:35Z azrazalea: TruePika: nice, sounds like fun.
2017-01-27T22:12:43Z TruePika: I have a POC render on my box, http://cdusto.selfip.com/test.png
2017-01-27T22:13:27Z aeth: TruePika: I don't know powershell, but if you want it to be human readable, one hack would be to put a newline after ) when you're generating the s-expressions, which appears to be line 57
2017-01-27T22:13:48Z aeth: It won't be indentation-aware (although you might be able to keep a counter that tracks indentation level), but it won't all be on one line
2017-01-27T22:14:07Z TruePika: aeth: I might as well add an issue for it
2017-01-27T22:14:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-27T22:16:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T22:18:55Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-27T22:19:27Z aeth: TruePika: Oh, I missed the "Github isn't censoring" line. Yes, Github isn't censoring, but afaik some website filters used by schools, corporations, and countries can block subpages of popular websites like Wikipedia or Github or YouTube based on the content rather than blocking entire sites.
2017-01-27T22:21:08Z aeth: It would be interesting to see if that page is blocked for anyone under such a filtering system.
2017-01-27T22:21:29Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T22:22:33Z TruePika: ...and I just realised that I might have run into a _slight_ problem
2017-01-27T22:23:14Z TruePika: There's no way for a function to reliably locate that game-data directory
2017-01-27T22:23:30Z TruePika: at least, AFAIK
2017-01-27T22:24:28Z yawn_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-27T22:25:44Z TruePika: I need a way for system code to get the path to the .asd file
2017-01-27T22:26:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T22:27:26Z aeth: TruePika: you mean game-info?
2017-01-27T22:27:46Z TruePika: yeah, but I literally just found the solution
2017-01-27T22:27:59Z TruePika: asdf:system-source-directory
2017-01-27T22:28:03Z aeth: yes
2017-01-27T22:28:11Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T22:28:19Z aeth: The one disadvantage is now you hardcoded something
2017-01-27T22:28:39Z rumbler31: if there is no matching typespec for a condition called out for in a handler-case form, does signal just keep going up the chain? or do I have to "rebroadcast" signals seen by the handler-case form
2017-01-27T22:28:49Z Bike: it keeps going up.
2017-01-27T22:28:58Z radasm joined #lisp
2017-01-27T22:29:06Z rumbler31: thnx
2017-01-27T22:29:11Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-27T22:29:11Z aeth: TruePika: asdf:system-source-directory works, that's what I was using to do something similar
2017-01-27T22:29:17Z TruePika: aeth: far too much is hardcoded ATM
2017-01-27T22:29:27Z rumbler31: running into that "error made its way to the toplevel" problem in a different place in the code now
2017-01-27T22:29:59Z TruePika: Eventually, most things should depend on the game-info files
2017-01-27T22:31:10Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-27T22:32:04Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T22:33:58Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-27T22:33:59Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-27T22:37:43Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T22:39:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T22:40:55Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-27T22:41:32Z _rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T22:44:23Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T22:46:14Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-27T22:49:40Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-27T22:49:47Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-27T22:50:51Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T22:53:25Z kobain joined #lisp
2017-01-27T22:53:35Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-27T22:57:13Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-27T22:58:45Z akkad: is there any reason to use sbcl-concurrency over just bordeaux-threads?
2017-01-27T22:59:59Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-27T23:00:59Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:01:12Z azrazalea: akkad: From what I understand most of the time no. I -think- for some particular niche cases you might have to due to bordeaux not supporting certain things sbcl-concurrency does? not sure though
2017-01-27T23:02:22Z akkad: k. cleaning up some code that used it in #+sbcl case
2017-01-27T23:02:25Z akkad: bt everywhere else
2017-01-27T23:03:49Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-27T23:06:01Z azrazalea: akkad: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/bordeaux-threads/bordeaux-threads/blob/master/src/impl-sbcl.lisp if you are curious what it is doing
2017-01-27T23:06:05Z azrazalea: Looks reasonable at first glance to me
2017-01-27T23:06:48Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-27T23:07:14Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:07:21Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:10:19Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T23:11:37Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T23:13:04Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:15:06Z BusFacto_ quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-27T23:17:21Z codemac joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:22:14Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-27T23:23:27Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:23:45Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:23:46Z drdo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-27T23:25:11Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-27T23:28:13Z drdo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:32:23Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:33:27Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-27T23:34:40Z codemac quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T23:34:58Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-27T23:35:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:37:42Z k-stz joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:37:43Z radasm quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-27T23:37:44Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:41:43Z ioa left #lisp
2017-01-27T23:43:59Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-27T23:45:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T23:47:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:48:57Z codemac joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:50:29Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:52:51Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-27T23:55:16Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T23:57:31Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-27T23:58:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:01:14Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-28T00:02:26Z _rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T00:03:34Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-28T00:07:31Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-28T00:08:46Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:11:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-28T00:11:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:14:02Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:16:58Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-28T00:17:15Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:19:00Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T00:21:56Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-28T00:22:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T00:24:02Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:24:52Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:28:30Z TruePika: azrazalea: https://redd.it/5qkrzy
2017-01-28T00:29:05Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T00:30:00Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:33:12Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:33:56Z circ-user-ZCCmR joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:34:12Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T00:34:31Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:34:37Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T00:35:52Z eSVG quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T00:36:12Z prxq quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T00:40:55Z akkad: ecl just does not want to deliver a binary without it bombing on There exists no package with name "CLOSER-MOP"
2017-01-28T00:40:55Z akkad:  
2017-01-28T00:41:17Z TruePika: akkad: ...is there a package with that name?
2017-01-28T00:43:06Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-28T00:43:52Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T00:43:58Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T00:44:25Z srwog3rd joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:44:28Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:44:48Z zeissoctopus joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:45:06Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:49:27Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T00:49:28Z srwog3rd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-28T00:49:46Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:52:03Z diogo_franco joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:52:05Z codemac quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T00:52:07Z akkad: yeap. evel load it in the asd defsystem. ditto with repl. just delivered binary never seems to be able to find it.
2017-01-28T00:55:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T00:56:37Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:56:52Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-28T00:58:49Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-28T00:58:49Z zeissoctopus quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-28T00:59:33Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-28T01:00:14Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:01:11Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:02:02Z jibanes quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T01:02:46Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-28T01:03:45Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:03:58Z jibanes joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:04:40Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T01:08:05Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:08:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T01:10:48Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:12:34Z akkad: function types are not a legal argument to TYPEP: (function (manardb:mm-object)... bit rot
2017-01-28T01:21:08Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-28T01:21:32Z aeth: "Function types are not a legal argument to TYPEP:"
2017-01-28T01:21:36Z aeth: Interesting
2017-01-28T01:22:08Z akkad: abcl
2017-01-28T01:22:13Z circ-user-ZCCmR quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T01:22:16Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:22:19Z Bike: that's standard, not just abcl
2017-01-28T01:22:23Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:22:38Z akkad: k. guessing check-type is calling typep
2017-01-28T01:22:43Z Bike: it does, yes.
2017-01-28T01:22:57Z Bike: it's unclear what checking that a function is of a given function type would even entail
2017-01-28T01:23:01Z akkad: ok need to clean this up then
2017-01-28T01:23:15Z aeth: akkad: well my almost-the-same error message was from SBCL
2017-01-28T01:23:35Z akkad: ahh. never hit this on ecl/sbcl/allegro/lw/ccl
2017-01-28T01:23:43Z aeth: If you were word for word, the only difference to the first part is SBCL has "Function" instead of "function" as the first word
2017-01-28T01:23:50Z akkad: ahh
2017-01-28T01:23:56Z aeth: (typep (lambda (x) (* x x)) '(function (function)))
2017-01-28T01:24:31Z akkad: #'(function) -- Illegal type specifier to typep. on allegro
2017-01-28T01:24:49Z Bike: you don't need to test this, it is in the standard.
2017-01-28T01:25:03Z Bike: "An error of type error is signaled if type-specifier is values, or a type specifier list whose first element is either function or values. "
2017-01-28T01:26:03Z akkad: understood. just looking at a way to fix it
2017-01-28T01:26:29Z Bike: change (function ...) to function, would be one
2017-01-28T01:26:50Z akkad: k
2017-01-28T01:26:58Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:27:07Z akkad: stuff like this? `(function (mindex) t)
2017-01-28T01:27:36Z akkad: oh i see
2017-01-28T01:28:00Z Bike: yes, you can't use that in typep (or check-type)
2017-01-28T01:28:09Z codemac joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:28:17Z akkad: gotcha
2017-01-28T01:28:20Z akkad: thanks
2017-01-28T01:29:26Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-28T01:30:00Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:30:44Z codemac: is there a way to recursively trace calls?
2017-01-28T01:31:16Z Xach: codemac: if you don't see recursive calls in traces, it may help to compile with higher debug.
2017-01-28T01:32:45Z jleija quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T01:32:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-28T01:33:45Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:34:09Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-28T01:35:43Z codemac quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T01:36:37Z Peaches2 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:39:54Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:44:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T01:45:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:48:38Z S1ohy quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T01:49:15Z space_otter joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:53:35Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:55:42Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T01:56:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T01:59:47Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-28T02:01:38Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T02:02:09Z ghard quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-28T02:02:22Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-28T02:02:26Z ghard` joined #lisp
2017-01-28T02:03:58Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-28T02:05:59Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-28T02:07:29Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T02:07:33Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-28T02:09:23Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T02:15:30Z azrazalea: Getting divide by zero error in clx (with stumpwm). Any tips for a better fix than this commenting out? Idk what is really going on in this function https://gitlab.com/snippets/683830
2017-01-28T02:15:40Z azrazalea: (x-post from #stumpwm)
2017-01-28T02:16:42Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-28T02:18:46Z Bike: uh... make sure the 12th and 14th elements of that vector are never zero, i guess?
2017-01-28T02:19:26Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-28T02:20:08Z azrazalea: Bike: Well, unless I set them arbitrarily I can't. The program causing the crash is setting the value to zero
2017-01-28T02:20:22Z azrazalea: Which is a proprietary game
2017-01-28T02:20:45Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T02:20:58Z Bike: well, yeah. what i mean is there's not going to be some kind of general fix
2017-01-28T02:21:30Z azrazalea: I'm not sure what a reasonable thing to do is I guess though. I don't know the context :(. Commenting out "works" but the video looks distorted slightly to me
2017-01-28T02:21:51Z azrazalea: Is anyone maintaining clx? Maybe I can ping them
2017-01-28T02:21:53Z Bike: presumably removing it distorts the aspect ratio
2017-01-28T02:22:05Z azrazalea: Bike: That's my guess yeah
2017-01-28T02:22:24Z Bike: https://github.com/sharplispers/clx but i don't know who's the maintainer
2017-01-28T02:23:05Z Bike: decode-wm-size-hints looks the same
2017-01-28T02:23:31Z Bike: and i don't know enough xlib to know what that vector should look like (who does, really)
2017-01-28T02:26:39Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-28T02:26:47Z azrazalea: Found this but this appears to be only slightly better https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/stumpwm-devel/2011-04/msg00009.html
2017-01-28T02:29:16Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-28T02:31:03Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-28T02:31:33Z azrazalea: I opened a issue on github with links. Hopefully someone is listening :)
2017-01-28T02:31:35Z azrazalea: thanks Bike
2017-01-28T02:31:44Z azrazalea: I'll just go with that patch for now
2017-01-28T02:32:37Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T02:32:56Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T02:35:28Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T02:40:26Z codemac joined #lisp
2017-01-28T02:42:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-28T02:43:53Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T02:44:29Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T02:53:36Z jameser joined #lisp
2017-01-28T02:55:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T02:56:41Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T02:57:02Z josh5tone quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T02:58:18Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-28T02:58:27Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-28T03:00:00Z ft quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T03:00:10Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T03:00:52Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T03:03:02Z jameser_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T03:05:08Z jason_m joined #lisp
2017-01-28T03:06:04Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-28T03:06:10Z jameser quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T03:06:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T03:08:07Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T03:08:19Z S1ohy quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T03:09:14Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T03:09:18Z josh5tone joined #lisp
2017-01-28T03:13:43Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T03:17:49Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-28T03:19:04Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T03:28:15Z jameser_ quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-28T03:29:28Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-28T03:30:40Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T03:34:41Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T03:35:34Z ft joined #lisp
2017-01-28T03:36:28Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-28T03:40:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T03:41:34Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T03:51:28Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T03:51:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-28T03:52:49Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-28T03:53:06Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-28T03:53:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T03:56:07Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T04:01:01Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-28T04:03:46Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T04:04:05Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T04:05:55Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T04:13:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-28T04:14:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T04:14:46Z rumbler3_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T04:18:00Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-28T04:20:48Z PuercoPop: azrazalea: ping jackdaniel btw, he is the Sharplisper with more interest on CLX
2017-01-28T04:21:09Z circ-user-ZCCmR joined #lisp
2017-01-28T04:21:12Z azrazalea: That probably did it ;P
2017-01-28T04:21:27Z azrazalea: jackdaniel: https://github.com/sharplispers/clx/issues/65
2017-01-28T04:21:44Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T04:22:15Z peterhil` joined #lisp
2017-01-28T04:22:22Z peterhil quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-28T04:25:18Z PuercoPop: TIL Clisp ships with its own CLX
2017-01-28T04:25:37Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp
2017-01-28T04:26:30Z PuercoPop: and even a (WIP?) C implementation of CLX!?
2017-01-28T04:26:56Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T04:28:04Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T04:31:47Z fik joined #lisp
2017-01-28T04:31:52Z Bike: isn't the c implementation of clx xlib
2017-01-28T04:32:28Z fik: Hello. I'm just taking my first baby steps with Lisp and I need help understanding something.
2017-01-28T04:32:51Z Bike: shoot
2017-01-28T04:32:58Z rk[ghost]: :
2017-01-28T04:33:43Z fik: Ok. I'll paste the code :)
2017-01-28T04:33:57Z Bike: use paste.lisp.org for anything more than a line or two
2017-01-28T04:35:16Z midre quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-28T04:36:00Z azrazalea: Bike: I think so. No idea if I could switch stump to it though.
2017-01-28T04:36:20Z Bike: that sounds difficult, and maybe of questionable value...
2017-01-28T04:36:55Z fik: http://pastebin.com/88VvpwGQ
2017-01-28T04:38:09Z azrazalea: Bike: Yeah. Either way, got a second crash. Apparently this game is "special"
2017-01-28T04:38:38Z Bike: kinda surprising. nobody really uses X-level stuff, so there's some intermediate being odd
2017-01-28T04:39:19Z azrazalea: Possibly unity engine doing weird things
2017-01-28T04:39:19Z PuercoPop: Bike: true. It seems more like using FFI than C
2017-01-28T04:39:41Z fik: I'd expect this to loop the showing of "Feed me an eff" and the waiting for an input; instead, it keeps feeding until it gets an "f" and only then, once it does get it, does it show all the "feed me an eff" that were accumulated every iteration
2017-01-28T04:39:46Z circ-user-ZCCmR quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T04:40:05Z Bike: you have fallen prey to output buffering
2017-01-28T04:40:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T04:40:24Z fik: Oh. What do I do to get what I want?
2017-01-28T04:40:42Z Bike: put a (finish-output) after the format
2017-01-28T04:40:48Z Bike: that makes sure the buffer is flushed
2017-01-28T04:40:54Z fik: oooh!
2017-01-28T04:40:57Z fik: let me try that!
2017-01-28T04:41:02Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T04:41:35Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T04:42:27Z midre joined #lisp
2017-01-28T04:43:20Z fik: Good. The message does appear on my screen now. But after it gets displayed for the first time, it appears repeated on further iterations
2017-01-28T04:43:40Z fik: "Feed me an FFeed me an F"
2017-01-28T04:45:07Z fik: Also, would you explain to me how this output buffering works or refer me to a document that explains it?
2017-01-28T04:45:10Z Bike: that time it seems to be input buffering. put a clear-input call after the read-char (i.e. after the when)
2017-01-28T04:45:20Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-28T04:45:25Z fik: ok, i'll try that
2017-01-28T04:45:32Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-28T04:47:07Z Bike: i'm not totally sure of the details. but basically it's common for program i/o to be placed in an internal memory buffer and only output when enough of it is accumulated. because actual i/o is really slow.
2017-01-28T04:47:21Z fik: it does work now!
2017-01-28T04:47:33Z Bike: posix does the same thing, that's what fflush and stuff deal with
2017-01-28T04:48:17Z fik: that sounds decrepit. cool nonetheless
2017-01-28T04:48:20Z fik: thank you
2017-01-28T04:48:42Z fik: quite the stumbling block this was
2017-01-28T04:51:13Z fik: i'm leaving. thank you for your help
2017-01-28T04:51:19Z fik: :)
2017-01-28T04:51:23Z Bike: byee
2017-01-28T04:51:45Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T04:53:35Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T04:54:19Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-28T04:56:14Z fik quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T05:00:16Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T05:04:37Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T05:04:42Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T05:05:00Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T05:06:49Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T05:06:59Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-28T05:08:02Z akkad: (make-hash-table :synchronized t) still gets a Corrupt NEXT-chain in #<HASH-TABLE :TEST EQUAL :COUNT 17007 {10015BBD73}>. This is probably caused by multiple threads accessing the same hash-table without locking. on sbcl
2017-01-28T05:08:17Z vlnx joined #lisp
2017-01-28T05:08:40Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T05:10:43Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-28T05:10:58Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-28T05:11:31Z vlnx_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-28T05:15:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T05:15:20Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T05:16:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T05:17:32Z axion: Perhaps a dumb question, but can the LOCAL-TIME or other library easily convert an integral universal-time into a string denoting the current 12-hour wall clock time?
2017-01-28T05:17:46Z axion: Preferably in UTC
2017-01-28T05:17:49Z axion: But not required
2017-01-28T05:17:50Z eSVG joined #lisp
2017-01-28T05:18:22Z axion: s/current//
2017-01-28T05:19:19Z Bike: local time probably can yeah.
2017-01-28T05:19:21Z akkad: cl-date-time-parser
2017-01-28T05:19:23Z Bike: akkad: maybe ask #sbcl.
2017-01-28T05:19:40Z akkad whispers to Bike about it being a scarry place
2017-01-28T05:19:49Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T05:26:01Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T05:26:53Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T05:28:18Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T05:33:00Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-28T05:38:55Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-28T05:39:27Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2017-01-28T05:39:59Z rjid quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T05:40:33Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T05:41:29Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-28T05:45:49Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T05:50:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T05:51:03Z axion: Anyone familiar with postmodern know if it is possible to view the string statement of the expression given to QUERY?
2017-01-28T05:51:26Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T05:52:11Z axion: I don't have a pg database running, and I'm trying to get the actual SQL statements of some ~10 year old code I wrote
2017-01-28T05:53:58Z axion: Oh, thanks anyway. It's the SQL macro I was looking for.
2017-01-28T05:56:37Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-28T06:00:30Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-28T06:02:39Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T06:02:58Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T06:12:45Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T06:14:08Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T06:16:22Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-28T06:16:31Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T06:20:35Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-28T06:21:55Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T06:25:36Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T06:25:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T06:29:43Z mrottenkolber1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T06:30:41Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-28T06:32:17Z circ-user-ZCCmR joined #lisp
2017-01-28T06:36:08Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-28T06:37:21Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-28T06:37:40Z circ-user-ZCCmR quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T06:38:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T06:48:29Z akkad: re
2017-01-28T06:49:42Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T06:50:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T06:50:07Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-28T06:50:29Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T06:55:01Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-28T06:55:55Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-28T06:59:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T07:01:05Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T07:05:04Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T07:09:37Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T07:10:52Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T07:11:34Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T07:16:52Z bmilk joined #lisp
2017-01-28T07:20:59Z bmilk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T07:22:44Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T07:23:29Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T07:24:40Z codemac quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T07:26:39Z bmilk joined #lisp
2017-01-28T07:26:50Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-28T07:31:50Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T07:33:19Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-28T07:34:28Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T07:34:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T07:44:07Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-28T07:45:08Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-28T07:46:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T07:49:12Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T07:49:40Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T07:52:30Z bmilk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T07:54:53Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-28T07:55:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-28T07:57:31Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T07:59:03Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:01:14Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:04:26Z Peaches2 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-28T08:04:50Z Peaches2 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:09:04Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T08:09:26Z d4ryus1 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:09:58Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:10:30Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:11:18Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:12:20Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-28T08:14:12Z wheelsucker quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-28T08:17:46Z ak5 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-28T08:19:10Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:20:14Z deank quit
2017-01-28T08:21:52Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T08:22:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:22:58Z heurist`_` joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:23:51Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T08:24:12Z heurist_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T08:24:20Z cromachina_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:26:46Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:28:20Z cromachina quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-28T08:30:35Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T08:31:17Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:34:08Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T08:34:27Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:38:50Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T08:39:31Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:39:31Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T08:39:31Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:40:25Z vibs29 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T08:44:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-28T08:44:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T08:45:21Z vibs29 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:45:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:45:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:46:41Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:50:56Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T08:51:33Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T08:52:22Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:52:22Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T08:52:22Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:55:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T08:55:49Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T08:56:12Z heurist__ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:56:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:57:18Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T08:58:12Z heurist`_` quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-28T08:59:44Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T09:00:00Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T09:00:06Z wheelsucker quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-28T09:00:15Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:00:15Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T09:00:15Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:02:33Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-28T09:05:47Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T09:05:48Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:05:48Z attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai
2017-01-28T09:05:49Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T09:05:49Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:05:51Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:08:36Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-28T09:09:29Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:10:12Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T09:10:34Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:11:27Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T09:15:41Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T09:16:30Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:16:30Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T09:16:30Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:19:46Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T09:19:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T09:20:04Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:20:04Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:20:33Z troydm quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T09:21:08Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:21:33Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:23:23Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T09:23:46Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:24:36Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T09:25:11Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:29:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T09:29:59Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T09:30:00Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:31:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:33:05Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:36:46Z mada is now known as madariaga
2017-01-28T09:39:53Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T09:39:54Z eSVG quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T09:40:02Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:40:02Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T09:40:02Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:40:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-28T09:42:05Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T09:42:54Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:43:27Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:45:03Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T09:45:29Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T09:45:34Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:46:00Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:46:00Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T09:46:00Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:47:47Z tanuzzo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:48:17Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:48:44Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:51:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T09:53:01Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:53:27Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T09:54:18Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T09:57:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T09:58:35Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T09:59:29Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:00:22Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T10:02:59Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-28T10:02:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T10:04:01Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-28T10:04:11Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:04:11Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T10:04:11Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:04:13Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T10:06:46Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:07:59Z phoe: Morning.
2017-01-28T10:09:02Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T10:10:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T10:10:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:11:37Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:15:05Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T10:15:35Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:15:36Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:17:54Z oleo: morning
2017-01-28T10:19:12Z xaotuk joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:20:02Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T10:21:22Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:21:44Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T10:23:07Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:23:18Z diogo__franco joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:24:14Z diogo_franco quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T10:25:17Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:28:07Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:31:35Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T10:32:00Z varjagg joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:32:33Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:32:33Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T10:32:33Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:34:09Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T10:34:27Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:35:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T10:36:54Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:37:20Z madariaga is now known as mada
2017-01-28T10:39:17Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T10:39:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:39:27Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T10:39:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:42:11Z phoe: \begincom{char=, char/=, char<, char>, char<=, char>=, char-equal, char-not-equal, char-lessp, char-greaterp, char-not-greaterp, char-not-lessp}\ftype{Function}
2017-01-28T10:42:17Z phoe: oh boy, here we go
2017-01-28T10:44:42Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T10:44:42Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T10:46:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:46:32Z xaotuk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T10:47:24Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T10:49:48Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-28T10:51:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:51:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T10:51:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:54:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-28T10:54:59Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:54:59Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T10:54:59Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:56:20Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T10:56:36Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-28T10:57:45Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T10:58:58Z phoe: https://i.imgtc.com/MzuyGAC.png
2017-01-28T10:58:58Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T10:59:00Z phoe: yes, here we go
2017-01-28T10:59:27Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-28T10:59:57Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:00:12Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:00:14Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:00:29Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T11:02:23Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T11:03:11Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:03:11Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T11:03:11Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:04:51Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-28T11:06:47Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T11:07:18Z davsebamse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T11:07:22Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:07:22Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T11:07:22Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:09:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-28T11:10:23Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:11:27Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:15:02Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T11:16:17Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:16:18Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T11:18:24Z shka_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:19:40Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T11:20:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-28T11:21:44Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:25:10Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-28T11:27:11Z tetero joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:30:34Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:32:16Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T11:32:41Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T11:33:00Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:42:45Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T11:43:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:47:48Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:47:56Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T11:49:08Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T11:50:24Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:50:46Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-28T11:52:20Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:52:42Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:53:32Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:53:49Z shka_ quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-28T11:54:26Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T11:55:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:56:56Z papachan quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-28T11:57:53Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T11:57:56Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-28T12:00:35Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:01:13Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:02:22Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:03:06Z frodef` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-28T12:03:36Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:04:16Z tetero quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T12:04:18Z _rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:04:51Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:05:04Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T12:05:35Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T12:05:41Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:06:09Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:06:14Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T12:08:44Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T12:08:46Z _rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T12:11:16Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:12:05Z pjb: The Fallacy Of Premature Optimization: http://ubiquity.acm.org/article.cfm?id=1513451
2017-01-28T12:12:59Z papachan: pjb hello !
2017-01-28T12:13:17Z pjb: hi
2017-01-28T12:15:19Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-28T12:17:15Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T12:17:34Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:17:38Z phoe: clhs alphanumericp
2017-01-28T12:17:39Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:17:40Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_alphan.htm
2017-01-28T12:17:56Z phoe: Is the (NOT (NULL ...)) in this example necessary?
2017-01-28T12:19:04Z phoe: Because NOT NULL is more or less IDENTITY when it comes to booleans.
2017-01-28T12:20:40Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T12:26:09Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:26:51Z beach: phoe: Yes, but the give different signals to the reader.
2017-01-28T12:27:36Z beach: phoe: (IF LIST ...) is not great, because LIST is not a Boolean value.
2017-01-28T12:27:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T12:29:22Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:29:48Z beach: In the example they use digit-char-p which, despite its name, returns a weight, or NIL if the digit is not in that radix.
2017-01-28T12:30:19Z ykm joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:30:22Z beach: So NIL here should not be considered a Boolean value, but a default value, returned in some cases.
2017-01-28T12:31:15Z beach: (NULL (DIGIT-CHAR-P X)) is to be interpreted as "Is the default value returned from DIGIT-CHAR-P".
2017-01-28T12:36:48Z phoe: beach: not really despite its name. It still returns a generalized boolean.
2017-01-28T12:36:53Z phoe: But yes, I can see the source of confusion here.
2017-01-28T12:37:23Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:37:30Z phoe: clhs digit-char
2017-01-28T12:37:31Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_digit_.htm
2017-01-28T12:37:56Z phoe: clhs char-digit
2017-01-28T12:37:56Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for char-digit.
2017-01-28T12:37:59Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-28T12:38:01Z pjb: beach: (if list has become kind of idiomatic…
2017-01-28T12:38:17Z beach: pjb: I am sorry to hear that.  I never write it myself.
2017-01-28T12:38:25Z pjb: Various styles.
2017-01-28T12:38:38Z beach: It is not quite as simple as that.
2017-01-28T12:38:48Z pjb: Then, I would argue or  (not (endp list)) rather than (not (null list)).
2017-01-28T12:38:51Z phoe: DIGIT-CHAR-P could actually be split into DIGIT-CHAR-P which returns T/NIL and CHAR-DIGIT which does exactly what DIGIT-CHAR-P is doing right now.
2017-01-28T12:38:57Z pjb: s/or/for/
2017-01-28T12:38:59Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-28T12:39:10Z beach: pjb: Sure, I'll go for that.
2017-01-28T12:39:12Z phoe: Much less confusion. The first is a predicate, the second is a conversion.
2017-01-28T12:39:42Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T12:41:57Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:43:41Z maxmaeteling joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:44:24Z phoe: beach: I've actually decided to write my first ever editor note for CLUS because of this.
2017-01-28T12:44:27Z phoe: The output of **digit-char-p** might be confusing, as this function's [[CL:Glossary:return value]] also serves a different purpose. **digit-char-p**, aside from being a [[CL:Glossary:predicate]], is also a converting function: it converts a [[CL:Glossary:digit]] in a given [[CL:Glossary:radix]] to its corresponding [[CL:Glossary:integer]] value.
2017-01-28T12:44:32Z phoe: Does it make sense?
2017-01-28T12:45:00Z phoe: I mean, does this note make sense?
2017-01-28T12:45:11Z zooey quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T12:45:26Z beach: Sure.
2017-01-28T12:45:47Z zooey joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:47:04Z phoe: That's a somewhat significant moment of me.
2017-01-28T12:47:10Z phoe: s/of/for/
2017-01-28T12:47:16Z beach: Congratulations!
2017-01-28T12:47:23Z phoe: Like, I'm no longer just a typesetter here, converting TeX to wiki markup.
2017-01-28T12:47:47Z phoe: I've actually become an editor for the CL standard, which is, huh, a pretty responsible job.
2017-01-28T12:47:50Z phoe: But also quite satisfying.
2017-01-28T12:49:10Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T12:49:26Z pjb: well, (defun char-digit (x) (digit-char-p x)) (declaim (inline char-digit)) and you're good.
2017-01-28T12:49:42Z beach: You should take the opportunity to stick in a note for known problems in the Common Lisp HyperSpec, such as the description of PROG2.
2017-01-28T12:50:34Z francogrex joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:51:06Z francogrex: hi, why do i get this warning? (only in sbcl and only when debug is not set to 3): http://paste.lisp.org/display/337561
2017-01-28T12:51:55Z phoe: francogrex: #sbcl - this looks like an internal SBCL bug.
2017-01-28T12:51:56Z pjb: there's no T clause, so if no condition is fullfilled, cond returns NIL.
2017-01-28T12:52:33Z beach: I share pjb's analysis.
2017-01-28T12:52:36Z francogrex: pjb: ok but is it specs that every cond should have a t clause?
2017-01-28T12:52:36Z phoe: pjb: right - but the error message is confusing.
2017-01-28T12:52:49Z phoe: pjb: no, a cond without a T clause is perfectly correct
2017-01-28T12:53:01Z phoe: it's just that WET-PROB might become NIL.
2017-01-28T12:53:09Z phoe: And <= on a NIL will fail.
2017-01-28T12:53:14Z pjb: francogrex: it's a question of type.  then sbcl finds that the type of the expression is (or float null) instead of just float.  So it gives a stype warning for this.
2017-01-28T12:53:14Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T12:53:29Z phoe: The SBCL compiler cannot prove that WET-PROB is always a REAL.
2017-01-28T12:53:38Z phoe: Therefore it emits a warning.
2017-01-28T12:54:05Z phoe: beach: http://cliki.net/Issue
2017-01-28T12:54:15Z pjb: Because <= would signal an error on when wet-prob is NIL.
2017-01-28T12:54:36Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:54:55Z francogrex: changing (and (null sprinkler) (null rain)) to T fixes it!
2017-01-28T12:55:38Z francogrex: alright
2017-01-28T12:55:49Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:56:17Z pjb: You could also initialize the variables to 0.0 instead of nil, and then you could declare their type.
2017-01-28T12:57:08Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-28T12:57:52Z francogrex: phoe: so is it a bug after all?
2017-01-28T12:58:40Z pjb: It's a warning.
2017-01-28T12:58:46Z pjb: Perhaps you DO want to signal an error?
2017-01-28T12:58:48Z francogrex: pjb: seems like a hassle to do that (init to 0.0) and defies the purpose/continuity
2017-01-28T12:59:03Z pjb: Try to wrap it in a (handler-case … (error () 0.0))
2017-01-28T12:59:21Z pjb: francogrex: if your variables all end being floats, you could as well initialize them to floats.
2017-01-28T12:59:47Z pjb: That would put everybody (readers and compiler) in the context.
2017-01-28T12:59:49Z francogrex: yes the probs are floats ok
2017-01-28T12:59:59Z pjb: But with the handler-case, I wouldn't like to get the warning.
2017-01-28T13:00:10Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T13:01:30Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-28T13:02:29Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-28T13:04:07Z phoe: francogrex: I say that this confusing error message is a bug.
2017-01-28T13:04:27Z phoe: The fact that SBCL warns you is good, but the way in which it conveys the message that something is an issue is incorrect.
2017-01-28T13:04:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T13:04:53Z phoe: beach: http://cliki.net/Issue%20DIGIT-CHAR-P-NOT-AN-ACTUAL-PREDICATE
2017-01-28T13:05:04Z phoe: I only need to add the test case.
2017-01-28T13:06:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T13:06:15Z phoe: Would "(digit-char-p #\E 16) ;=> 14" suffice?
2017-01-28T13:07:00Z francogrex: ok
2017-01-28T13:09:25Z pjb: phoe: evenp oddp are not predicates either.
2017-01-28T13:13:16Z phoe: clhs evenp
2017-01-28T13:13:16Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_evenpc.htm
2017-01-28T13:13:34Z phoe: "evenp returns true if integer is even (divisible by two); otherwise, returns false."
2017-01-28T13:13:46Z phoe: pjb: how?
2017-01-28T13:14:14Z pjb: they're not function: they signal an error on non-integer objects.
2017-01-28T13:14:25Z pjb: They're at most partial-predicates.
2017-01-28T13:14:41Z pjb: (hence the problem in using them with type satisfies.
2017-01-28T13:14:45Z pjb: )
2017-01-28T13:15:22Z phoe: hah, I see.
2017-01-28T13:15:39Z phoe: feel free to file an issue at CLiki.
2017-01-28T13:15:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T13:16:32Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T13:25:01Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-28T13:26:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T13:27:58Z maxmaeteling quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T13:28:08Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T13:28:32Z papachan: msg pjb Salut
2017-01-28T13:28:45Z eSVG joined #lisp
2017-01-28T13:34:48Z eSVG quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T13:37:25Z francogrex left #lisp
2017-01-28T13:39:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-28T13:41:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T13:41:40Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-28T13:43:28Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T13:44:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-28T13:46:30Z phoe hands papachan a #\/
2017-01-28T13:46:49Z papachan: lol
2017-01-28T13:50:42Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-28T13:53:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T13:54:25Z phoe: aah
2017-01-28T13:54:27Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T13:54:31Z phoe: I'm actually doing some good job on this one.
2017-01-28T13:54:46Z phoe: Before: https://i.imgtc.com/u8WjMHdmZO.png
2017-01-28T13:56:04Z phoe: After: https://i.imgtc.com/8ExqRqj.png
2017-01-28T13:56:08Z drdo left #lisp
2017-01-28T13:56:57Z teggi joined #lisp
2017-01-28T13:56:58Z phoe: Hyperlinks in examples.
2017-01-28T14:02:42Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:04:28Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T14:04:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:04:52Z phoe: http://phoe.tymoon.eu/clus/doku.php?id=clus:todo
2017-01-28T14:04:59Z phoe: Chapter Characters pushed up.
2017-01-28T14:05:10Z phoe: Minor fixes will be pulled up soon.
2017-01-28T14:07:07Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T14:08:07Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:08:07Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T14:08:07Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:15:26Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T14:15:59Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T14:16:18Z karswell` joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:16:56Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:18:31Z papachan: phoe cool
2017-01-28T14:18:51Z papachan quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-28T14:25:00Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:25:01Z malice: hi all!
2017-01-28T14:26:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T14:27:48Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-28T14:28:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:35:13Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T14:36:09Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-28T14:37:36Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:40:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T14:41:22Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:42:03Z phoe: malice: yo
2017-01-28T14:42:27Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:43:14Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:43:26Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T14:45:11Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:45:42Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:46:02Z Ven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T14:46:23Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:53:04Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T14:54:24Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:57:44Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-28T14:59:40Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:01:05Z teggi quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-28T15:02:28Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T15:04:00Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-28T15:04:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T15:04:40Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:04:40Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-28T15:06:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:06:22Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:07:16Z Xach: ahoy phoe
2017-01-28T15:07:43Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:07:53Z Xach: I left a remark on the /r/lisp post on the topic
2017-01-28T15:10:24Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T15:11:56Z phoe: ahoy Xach
2017-01-28T15:12:04Z phoe: I left a remark on the /r/lisp post about your remark
2017-01-28T15:12:05Z bigos quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-28T15:12:17Z phoe: And here is my question:
2017-01-28T15:12:21Z phoe: http://phoe.tymoon.eu/clus/doku.php?id=clus:todo
2017-01-28T15:12:49Z phoe: Should the description be above Syntax and Arguments/Values (like in CLHS) or should it be below (like it is in CLUS now)?
2017-01-28T15:13:15Z phoe: You, whoever's reading this right now: I'd like you to answer.
2017-01-28T15:13:18Z phoe brb for shower
2017-01-28T15:15:44Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T15:16:24Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T15:17:02Z Amplituhedron quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T15:17:03Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:17:39Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:18:36Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:24:52Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-28T15:25:13Z phoe back from shower
2017-01-28T15:25:27Z phoe watches tumbleweed roll
2017-01-28T15:25:52Z Xach: phoe: since the description refers to terms in the syntax and arguments/values sections, i think they should precede it.
2017-01-28T15:26:18Z Xach: phoe: it doesn't make sense to me to see: "AREF - references /array/ at /index/" when there is no prior description of /array/ and /index/
2017-01-28T15:27:04Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T15:27:22Z phoe: Xach: I see.
2017-01-28T15:27:31Z ykm left #lisp
2017-01-28T15:28:33Z Harag quit (Quit: Harag)
2017-01-28T15:28:35Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:28:53Z phoe: Xach: https://github.com/phoe/clus-data/issues/1
2017-01-28T15:29:11Z phoe: I hope you don't mind the tiny bit of editing the verbatim IRC quote that I did.
2017-01-28T15:29:39Z Xach: Not a bit
2017-01-28T15:29:54Z phoe: I can see the issue here and I want to hear the community feedback on this.
2017-01-28T15:31:16Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:37:24Z Xach: I like the general look and idea
2017-01-28T15:37:26Z Xach: Good job so far
2017-01-28T15:37:41Z phoe: Xach: <3
2017-01-28T15:37:58Z Xach: Keep it up!
2017-01-28T15:38:19Z phoe: I want to import the spec into the wiki format and then ask #lisp for a huge review of everything.
2017-01-28T15:38:44Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T15:38:48Z phoe: Of course, if anyone wants to review what's currently there, no problem - as long as the huge amount of scary red italicized links doesn't scare the person away.
2017-01-28T15:38:54Z flip214: phoe: clus looks great!
2017-01-28T15:38:54Z phoe wigglebrow
2017-01-28T15:39:29Z phoe: flip214: thanks!... but you should perhaps thank the author of https://www.dokuwiki.org/template:codowik
2017-01-28T15:39:36Z phoe: that's the layout template I'm using
2017-01-28T15:39:40Z phoe: if you mean the looks, of course
2017-01-28T15:40:22Z flip214: I'd like to ask for a feature, though... provide some redirect service, so that URL.../<package:symbol-name>[:optional function/value/class/package/etc.]
2017-01-28T15:40:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:40:43Z flip214: redirects to the right thing, whereever it may hide in the docs.
2017-01-28T15:41:08Z phoe: flip214: in the general case, it can't be done with DokuWiki
2017-01-28T15:41:10Z flip214: and package would be nice to have, too, because then the _other_ (asdf) systems could integrate into the same doc tree!
2017-01-28T15:41:25Z flip214: similar to the contents of quickdocs or so, I guess.
2017-01-28T15:41:32Z phoe: mostly because it doesn't understand symbols such as char=
2017-01-28T15:41:35Z phoe: or asdf/something
2017-01-28T15:41:47Z flip214: phoe: it can surely be done. just have your own index.php somewhere, and have apache redirect to that.
2017-01-28T15:41:50Z phoe: also, we have URL limitations - so packages like asdf/something are treated differently
2017-01-28T15:41:58Z phoe: flip214: but that's not dokuwiki, that's already apache. :D
2017-01-28T15:42:04Z phoe: I can see what you mean though.
2017-01-28T15:42:08Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-28T15:42:23Z flip214: because then the keybinding in editors to open some HTML spec could do the right thing,
2017-01-28T15:42:23Z phoe: The thing I have been thinking of is teaching minion how to use CLUS.
2017-01-28T15:42:41Z flip214: whether it's a CL symbol or some other thing.
2017-01-28T15:43:15Z flip214: that would be nice too, of course.
2017-01-28T15:43:22Z phoe: flip214: the general problem with DokuWiki is:
2017-01-28T15:43:41Z phoe: I can, more or less, only use [A-Z0-9-_] in filenames.
2017-01-28T15:44:04Z phoe: #\* is not a valid filename character, either, but it's common in Lisp symbols.
2017-01-28T15:44:18Z phoe: #\/ is used in symbols, too, but it has a different meaning in URLs.
2017-01-28T15:45:02Z flip214: phoe: well, then "just" (ha!) use some escape characteristic. eg. "--" as prefix means rest is base64.
2017-01-28T15:45:13Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:45:13Z phoe: flip214: urlencoding, huh?
2017-01-28T15:45:19Z flip214: and if you have some redirect service, the URLs themselves won't matter that much anyway.
2017-01-28T15:45:22Z phoe: I'll take that.
2017-01-28T15:45:35Z phoe: I'll create a map from packages and symbols to CLUS links.
2017-01-28T15:45:53Z phoe: And that can be used to teach minion how to use CLUS *and* to create a URL redirector.
2017-01-28T15:46:12Z flip214: not sure how easy to integrate that into dokuwiki would be -- but you could have apache rewrite/escape the URLs before doing an (internal) redirect to dokuwiki.
2017-01-28T15:46:13Z phoe: flip214: could you create an issue on github/phoe/clus-data for that?
2017-01-28T15:46:29Z flip214: will do.
2017-01-28T15:46:33Z flip214: thanks for the attention!
2017-01-28T15:46:39Z phoe: flip214: I will have to create a manual mapping from packages/symbols to dokuwiki links.
2017-01-28T15:46:47Z flip214: but please don't _require_ minion as a resolver service.
2017-01-28T15:46:47Z phoe: Because of URL and dokuwiki limitations.
2017-01-28T15:46:54Z phoe: flip214: what do you mean?
2017-01-28T15:47:05Z phoe: Oh, no no no, I don't want to redirect *everything* through minion.
2017-01-28T15:47:39Z phoe: I'd rather have minion ask the HTTP resolver for the link it should display on the IRC.
2017-01-28T15:48:10Z phoe: Or actually, for a more static solution, I'd create a Git repository with the mapping that minion can periodically re-download.
2017-01-28T15:49:18Z Xach: that's what l1sp.org does.
2017-01-28T15:49:40Z phoe: Xach: !
2017-01-28T15:49:41Z phoe: Correct.
2017-01-28T15:50:40Z flip214: phoe: recorded as https://github.com/phoe/clus-data/issues/2
2017-01-28T15:50:44Z flip214: thanks a lot!
2017-01-28T15:51:04Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T15:51:21Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:51:57Z flip214: phoe: please set the default syntax highlightning to lisp   ;)
2017-01-28T15:51:58Z flip214: https://www.dokuwiki.org/wiki:syntax#syntax_highlighting
2017-01-28T15:52:43Z phoe: flip214: it's a longer story
2017-01-28T15:52:48Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:52:49Z phoe: I'm not using dokuwiki default code blocks
2017-01-28T15:52:54Z flip214: oh, okay.
2017-01-28T15:53:00Z phoe: because of their inability to host markup
2017-01-28T15:53:11Z flip214: well, sorry for coming in with too many expectations/wishes too early ;)
2017-01-28T15:53:13Z phoe: I've hacked my way into the blockquote plugin and I tell it to behave how I want it
2017-01-28T15:53:16Z phoe: flip214: hahaha, no problem
2017-01-28T15:53:17Z phoe: file an issue,.
2017-01-28T15:54:10Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:55:24Z phoe: Xach: Can we teach l1sp.org how to redirect if we provide a mapping for it from input strings to CLUS links?
2017-01-28T15:55:35Z phoe: Please respond at https://github.com/phoe/clus-data/issues/2
2017-01-28T15:55:41Z phoe needs to run off for RL
2017-01-28T15:55:50Z flip214: phoe: have a nice weekend!
2017-01-28T15:55:53Z phoe: flip214: you too!
2017-01-28T15:56:05Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T15:56:20Z flip214: perhaps exporting HTML from a (lisp-configured) editor would be the easiest way to go...
2017-01-28T15:56:32Z flip214: because quoting and so on
2017-01-28T15:57:33Z flip214: gnu highlight would need quite some expanding...
2017-01-28T15:57:39Z flip214: *extending
2017-01-28T15:58:08Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-28T15:59:26Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T15:59:36Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T16:01:32Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T16:02:07Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-28T16:04:40Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T16:04:59Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T16:05:23Z pvaneynd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T16:06:05Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-28T16:07:17Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-28T16:08:38Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-28T16:09:16Z quazimodo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T16:13:38Z knicklux quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T16:15:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T16:16:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T16:21:43Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T16:26:42Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T16:27:13Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-28T16:27:35Z S1ohy quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T16:28:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T16:35:57Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T16:38:14Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T16:39:34Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T16:44:37Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-28T16:49:49Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T16:49:59Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T16:50:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T16:54:35Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T16:54:53Z ikki joined #lisp
2017-01-28T16:56:22Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T16:58:54Z phoe: Xach: description issue done.
2017-01-28T16:59:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-28T17:00:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T17:01:01Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-28T17:01:49Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-28T17:03:33Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-28T17:06:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-28T17:06:44Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-28T17:10:57Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T17:11:59Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T17:12:13Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T17:12:16Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-28T17:12:29Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T17:18:56Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T17:19:07Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T17:20:37Z dim: I really wish CCL was available by default in debian
2017-01-28T17:21:16Z antoszka: Why isn't it?
2017-01-28T17:21:44Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T17:22:14Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T17:22:36Z antoszka: Hm. Neither is abcl. Coming from Gentoo I'm actually surprised.
2017-01-28T17:22:46Z antoszka: Neither is clisp.
2017-01-28T17:22:59Z phoe: https://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2012/07/msg00240.html
2017-01-28T17:23:03Z antoszka: So there seems to be only sbcl, ecl and cmucl:i386.
2017-01-28T17:23:19Z dim: IIRC Clozure has a build dependency that make things complex (licencing or something can't remember)
2017-01-28T17:23:24Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T17:23:30Z dim: ah thans phoe
2017-01-28T17:23:30Z phoe: antoszka: clisp is available.
2017-01-28T17:23:47Z phoe: # apt install clisp
2017-01-28T17:23:49Z phoe: works for me
2017-01-28T17:23:52Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-28T17:31:24Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T17:33:01Z antoszka: phoe: not in Kali (which is more or less debian testing)
2017-01-28T17:35:04Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T17:35:24Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T17:38:23Z pjb: antoszka: it is not available in debian, because they build everything from C, but ccl is built from ccl.
2017-01-28T17:39:11Z pjb: clisp is a Common Lisp implemented in C, (hence C Lisp -> clisp). As such, it can be built from debian.
2017-01-28T17:40:16Z dim: pjb: there's a precedent to entering a software that build-depends on a previous version of itself in debian, so it could be done with CCL
2017-01-28T17:40:36Z pjb: It would be nice.
2017-01-28T17:40:53Z dim: I can't allocate time to work on this myself, unfortunately
2017-01-28T17:41:02Z dim: if CCL was in debian, then I would use that to package pgloader
2017-01-28T17:41:09Z phoe: antoszka: I have debian sid and I have clisp.
2017-01-28T17:41:24Z phoe: https://packages.debian.org/sid/clisp
2017-01-28T17:41:30Z dim: CCL >> SBCL for the pgloader use case (it's all about the Garbage Collector)
2017-01-28T17:44:24Z Fare: dim: what about the GC?
2017-01-28T17:44:42Z dim: sbcl's one is crappy^Wsuboptimal
2017-01-28T17:46:37Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T17:46:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T17:47:14Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-28T17:47:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-28T17:50:23Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-28T17:56:48Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-28T17:57:09Z djuber joined #lisp
2017-01-28T17:57:24Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-28T17:58:47Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:01:16Z shka: dim: benchmarks?
2017-01-28T18:01:31Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:07:40Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:07:40Z Trystam quit (Changing host)
2017-01-28T18:07:40Z Trystam joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:07:53Z phoe: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_cerror.htm
2017-01-28T18:07:58Z phoe: I have a question about the example.
2017-01-28T18:08:05Z phoe: The REAL-SQRT one.
2017-01-28T18:08:21Z phoe: Should the SETF not happen after the CERROR, for correctness's sake?
2017-01-28T18:09:14Z malice quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T18:10:16Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-28T18:10:47Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T18:11:00Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:11:04Z Trystam is now known as Tristam
2017-01-28T18:11:30Z titankiller joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:11:37Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-28T18:11:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:12:07Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-28T18:14:05Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:14:08Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:14:41Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T18:16:04Z diogo__franco quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-28T18:18:37Z titankiller quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T18:21:06Z maxmaeteling joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:21:57Z dim: shka: it's about memory usage and being able to sustain reasonnable footprint when handling GB and TB of data for a migration with pgloader; CCL is so much better than SBCL at that that's it's not even funny
2017-01-28T18:22:24Z jleija quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T18:22:41Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:23:47Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T18:24:10Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:24:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:24:49Z drdo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:28:32Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:31:07Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:34:39Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:34:52Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T18:35:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:41:05Z jleija quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T18:43:15Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:46:26Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:46:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-28T18:47:41Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:47:43Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T18:48:09Z phoe: and this, kids, is why you indent your (Lisp) code
2017-01-28T18:48:09Z phoe: https://i.imgtc.com/tZKvmuj.png
2017-01-28T18:48:38Z Petit_Dejeuner: lisp-minified
2017-01-28T18:48:54Z phoe: Petit_Dejeuner: aw yes
2017-01-28T18:48:56Z Petit_Dejeuner: Actually, since auto-indent is so good, we could just minify lisp to compress it.
2017-01-28T18:48:57Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:49:04Z phoe: haha
2017-01-28T18:49:14Z phoe: take comments into account though
2017-01-28T18:49:41Z phoe: also, why minify lisp? HTTPS supports gzip well enough
2017-01-28T18:49:52Z phoe: in case you'd like to transmit it through the network
2017-01-28T18:49:55Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T18:50:23Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:50:51Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-28T18:51:11Z tetero joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:52:07Z tetero: Hmm. What would be the simplest version of dividing odds from evens in a list recursively? I've played around with a few versions using oddp and evenp but now I'm curious how you professionals would accomplish this
2017-01-28T18:55:14Z beach: tetero: It is almost never a good idea to use recursion on linear structures such as lists.
2017-01-28T18:55:54Z phoe: beach: I think it is - on languages that explicitly support tail calls.
2017-01-28T18:55:58Z tetero: beach: Oh. How would your version look like then? I've created non-recursive versions too
2017-01-28T18:56:01Z phoe: s/calls/call optimization/.
2017-01-28T18:56:22Z tetero: I'm mostly interested in comparing my (non-expert) solutions to yours
2017-01-28T18:56:28Z phoe: tetero: (loop for x in list if (evenp x) then collect x)
2017-01-28T18:56:34Z Petit_Dejeuner: tetero: Keep two accumulators. One is a list of odds and the other is a list of evens.
2017-01-28T18:56:48Z phoe: oh wait, you want both
2017-01-28T18:56:49Z tetero: phoe: Yeah I made one of those
2017-01-28T18:56:53Z tetero: Yeah both
2017-01-28T18:56:54Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:57:00Z tetero: Evens and odds in separate lists from one list
2017-01-28T18:57:07Z phoe: collect x into evens else collect x into odds
2017-01-28T18:57:10Z phoe: something like that
2017-01-28T18:57:14Z Petit_Dejeuner: (defun seperate-odds-evens (seq) (seperate-odds-evens-iter seq nil nil))
2017-01-28T18:57:32Z Petit_Dejeuner: first nil is list of odds, second is list of evens
2017-01-28T18:57:33Z phoe: but I'm not sure on this as I've never used loop's INTO.
2017-01-28T18:57:34Z phoe: :P
2017-01-28T18:57:48Z tetero: :)
2017-01-28T18:58:04Z tetero: I'm at least happy to know that my solutions are at least up the same alley as yours
2017-01-28T18:58:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-28T18:59:07Z tetero: phoe: I reach for (loop solutions instinctively but I try to create recursive versions for each as well as it's less in my nature (coming from java) just to see if I might learn something
2017-01-28T18:59:15Z beach: tetero: (loop for x in list if (evenp x) collect x into evens else collect x into odds finally (return (values evens odds)))
2017-01-28T18:59:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T18:59:52Z tetero: phoe: That's pretty much exactly my non-recursive solution. My recursive solution is quite a mess though
2017-01-28T19:00:38Z tetero: Hopefully that means I'm on the track of learning properly :-)
2017-01-28T19:01:40Z maxmaeteling quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T19:01:42Z Petit_Dejeuner can never remember whether to use labels or flet
2017-01-28T19:04:17Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-28T19:04:37Z beach: tetero: (defun separate (list) (if (null list) (values '() '()) (multiple-value-bind (evens odds) (separate (rest list)) (if (evenp (first list)) (values (cons (first list) evens) odds) (values evens (cons (first list) odds))))))
2017-01-28T19:05:18Z tetero: beach: Whoah. Ok. That recursive function is much superior to mine
2017-01-28T19:05:27Z MarkusBarthlen joined #lisp
2017-01-28T19:06:32Z Petit_Dejeuner: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337590
2017-01-28T19:07:27Z Einwq joined #lisp
2017-01-28T19:09:49Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T19:10:53Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-28T19:11:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T19:11:49Z phoe: beach: this doesn't make use of tail calls at all
2017-01-28T19:12:15Z tetero: Still
2017-01-28T19:12:37Z tetero: My weak point, coming from java, is making good recursive functions
2017-01-28T19:12:51Z beach: phoe: That's correct.  Making a function tail recursive usually makes it less understandable.
2017-01-28T19:13:07Z tetero: Iteration I can wrap my head around quite nicely. But recursive ones accomplishing the same task I'm much worse at
2017-01-28T19:13:37Z tetero: I can make them, but they are not as concise or neat as beach's example
2017-01-28T19:14:03Z tetero: I truly want to master that skill
2017-01-28T19:14:42Z Petit_Dejeuner: tetero: Have you implemented map, filter, and reduce from scratch?
2017-01-28T19:14:50Z tetero: J
2017-01-28T19:14:56Z tetero: I have not
2017-01-28T19:15:03Z Petit_Dejeuner: That's a good way to learn.
2017-01-28T19:15:18Z tetero: Petit_Dejeuner: Any book or resource you'd recommend?
2017-01-28T19:15:22Z Petit_Dejeuner: Also code that works on trees, like a binary tree, quad-tree, oct-tree.
2017-01-28T19:15:28Z tetero: I'm currently reading gigamonkeys
2017-01-28T19:15:42Z Petit_Dejeuner: tetero: I think the little lisper/schemer is the best for learning recursion, but that's not Common Lisp.
2017-01-28T19:15:46Z beach: tetero: Rather than practicing writing recursive functions on lists, I suggest you practice writing recursive functions on data structures where recursion is the best choice, such as for trees.
2017-01-28T19:15:51Z Petit_Dejeuner: ^
2017-01-28T19:15:57Z tetero: I did lisp-koans, and I loved it. But I didn't learn that much from it
2017-01-28T19:16:09Z Petit_Dejeuner: beach: But a list is a tree. :^)
2017-01-28T19:16:27Z tetero: beach: Maybe that's a good point!
2017-01-28T19:16:28Z beach: Indeed.
2017-01-28T19:16:41Z phoe: tetero: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337591
2017-01-28T19:16:43Z phoe: that's my suggestion
2017-01-28T19:16:46Z phoe: recursive? yes
2017-01-28T19:16:52Z phoe: purely functional? hell no
2017-01-28T19:16:53Z beach: tetero: Your functions will look much more idiomatic that way.
2017-01-28T19:17:52Z Petit_Dejeuner: phoe: (seperate cdr evens odds)
2017-01-28T19:17:53Z beach: phoe: That's silly.
2017-01-28T19:17:58Z tetero: phoe: That recursive function, like beach'es, is also better than mine. In a different way and both are educational to me. THanks :)
2017-01-28T19:18:33Z beach: phoe: Just call recursively with (cons car evens) or (cons car odds).
2017-01-28T19:18:39Z phoe: beach: haha, I just realized why.
2017-01-28T19:19:10Z tetero: beach: Yeah. I'm not yet writing *applications* using lisp but rather doing random challenges. And even when the challenges don't specify recursive/iterative etc I try to do them in as many combinations as I can think of and try to simplify it to be as concise as possible
2017-01-28T19:19:30Z tetero: beach: So my recursive functions might very well not be very suited to the actual task
2017-01-28T19:20:02Z phoe: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337591#1
2017-01-28T19:20:07Z phoe: Petit_Dejeuner: ?
2017-01-28T19:20:30Z beach: tetero: Yes, I see.  But we (i.e., #lisp participants) have other plans for you, namely that you will contribute some code for everyone to use.
2017-01-28T19:20:35Z tetero: But I have to say that I love the way that common lisp grants me the ability to solve the same problem in a number of ways and thinking about the best way is a pure pleasure in my opinion.
2017-01-28T19:20:48Z Petit_Dejeuner: Honestly, I expected thsi kind of code to be the most idiomatic. http://paste.lisp.org/display/337593
2017-01-28T19:20:59Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T19:21:04Z tetero: beach: Ah. I'm happy to contribute and I'd be happy for any guidance in any direction you see fit
2017-01-28T19:21:18Z Petit_Dejeuner: phoe: Ah, I didn't notice the destructuring bind.
2017-01-28T19:21:24Z Petit_Dejeuner: I skimmed it look for a let and was confused.
2017-01-28T19:21:33Z beach: phoe: Much better.
2017-01-28T19:21:34Z Petit_Dejeuner: looking*
2017-01-28T19:21:43Z phoe: Petit_Dejeuner: he was asking for a recursive function.
2017-01-28T19:22:17Z Petit_Dejeuner: I know.
2017-01-28T19:22:19Z beach: tetero: One possible way is to help someone out with the maintenance of an existing library.
2017-01-28T19:22:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T19:22:30Z tetero: phoe: It's very educational for me. Thank you. I know of destructuring-bind, but I don't fully understand it yet. Labels are also novel to me
2017-01-28T19:22:33Z phoe: But, tetero, take a look at what Petit_Dejeuner suggested. While it's not recursive, LOOP is frequently used when iterating like that.
2017-01-28T19:22:51Z beach: tetero: That way, you will see a lot of idiomatic (and also some not-so-idiomatic) code.
2017-01-28T19:23:08Z phoe: tetero: destructuring-bind is like let, it binds variables, except it can be used when your "variables" are in some sort of a cons structure.
2017-01-28T19:23:29Z phoe: For example, you know that the value you will be processing is in form (A B (C D E)).
2017-01-28T19:23:40Z tetero: phoe: Aye, I am looking at what all of you are linking. loop is the easiest for me to grasp. Recursive functions are the most difficult for me to grasp
2017-01-28T19:23:56Z phoe: So you can avoid going like (let ((a (first list)) (b (second list)) (c (first (third list))) ...) ...)
2017-01-28T19:24:07Z phoe: you can go (destructuring-bind (a b (c d e)) list ...)
2017-01-28T19:24:18Z phoe: it's a huge syntax shortcut.
2017-01-28T19:24:39Z phoe: you have variables A, B, C, D, E bound for you.
2017-01-28T19:24:52Z phoe: the only prerequisite: you need to know the structure of your data entry.
2017-01-28T19:25:00Z tetero: Ah
2017-01-28T19:25:34Z tetero: beach: You're the second person to suggest this approach in spite of me thinking that I'm too incompetent for it. I will try
2017-01-28T19:25:59Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T19:26:29Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T19:26:43Z phoe: tetero: it's a good way to become competent
2017-01-28T19:26:44Z tetero: phoe: Yeah. I have a bunch of lisp books and I'm going to finish gigamonkeys by next week
2017-01-28T19:27:03Z tetero: phoe: You are probably right. Learning by doing
2017-01-28T19:27:08Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-28T19:28:10Z tetero: For what it's worth, of all the programming languages I've been interested in, I find your collective advice by far the most valuable
2017-01-28T19:28:25Z tetero: And I truly enjoy learning common lisp
2017-01-28T19:29:01Z tetero: So thanks to all of you :-)
2017-01-28T19:31:31Z MetaHertz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T19:31:45Z MetaHertz joined #lisp
2017-01-28T19:32:23Z phoe: tetero: no problem
2017-01-28T19:32:27Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T19:32:30Z phoe: if you got any problems, fire them here
2017-01-28T19:32:45Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T19:36:02Z space_otter joined #lisp
2017-01-28T19:41:48Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-28T19:42:21Z tetero: :-)
2017-01-28T19:42:53Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T19:43:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T19:46:46Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-28T19:55:34Z sirkmatija: I didn't really get recursion at first, but little schemer (and other books in this series) helped. In the end I really grokked it when I learned how inductive proofs work in math. I couldn't really explain how these two are connected, but it just clicked.
2017-01-28T19:55:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T19:56:00Z sirkmatija: also it's way easier to learn recursion in scheme/racket since you don't have do and loop as a crutch.
2017-01-28T19:56:41Z sirkmatija: they also force you to really start using maps, reduces, filters, folds, ...
2017-01-28T19:57:04Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T19:58:11Z sirkmatija: since i learned a bit of common lisp i can barely use scheme/racket, they just feel so unrealistically hygienic, sanitized. To far away from the machine.
2017-01-28T20:00:34Z prxq: some people like that
2017-01-28T20:03:08Z krwq joined #lisp
2017-01-28T20:05:22Z sirkmatija: I liked it too, but I always felt like there was something missing, something removed due to not comforming to some notion of elegance. I probably like common lisp because it allows you to be clean when you want it, but it also allows you to use it like forth, if need arises.
2017-01-28T20:08:34Z phoe: sirkmatija: or BASIC
2017-01-28T20:08:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T20:08:52Z phoe: (TAGBODY 10 (PRINC "HELLO") 20 (GOTO 10))
2017-01-28T20:09:57Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T20:10:58Z sirkmatija: I guess so, I never used basic, due to being too young. I still have olivetti m10 somewhere though.
2017-01-28T20:11:04Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-28T20:14:54Z pjb: sirkmatija: http://www.calormen.com/jsbasic/
2017-01-28T20:18:46Z sirkmatija: oh I already saw that somewhere, but thanks anyway
2017-01-28T20:22:28Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-28T20:22:52Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-28T20:23:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T20:27:54Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-28T20:30:53Z diogo__franco joined #lisp
2017-01-28T20:33:28Z troydm quit (Quit: What is Hope? That all of your wishes and all of your dreams come true? To turn back time because things were not supposed to happen like that (C) Rau Le Creuset)
2017-01-28T20:35:02Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T20:35:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T20:38:23Z S1ohy quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-28T20:39:13Z araujo quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2017-01-28T20:39:53Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T20:45:36Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-28T20:46:51Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T20:48:47Z krwq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T20:49:20Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T20:51:06Z troydm joined #lisp
2017-01-28T20:52:00Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-28T20:52:41Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-28T20:56:07Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-28T20:56:24Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T20:57:45Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T21:00:13Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-28T21:04:24Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T21:06:09Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-28T21:09:44Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T21:10:33Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T21:10:59Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T21:11:46Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-28T21:12:06Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T21:12:26Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-28T21:12:53Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T21:16:35Z tetero quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-28T21:16:35Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T21:17:59Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-28T21:22:47Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T21:23:10Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T21:24:07Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T21:24:46Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-28T21:27:19Z rjid left #lisp
2017-01-28T21:27:33Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-28T21:28:08Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T21:29:10Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-28T21:34:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-28T21:35:00Z phoe: TIL about  USER-HOMEDIR-PATHNAME
2017-01-28T21:35:05Z phoe: clhs USER-HOMEDIR-PATHNAME
2017-01-28T21:35:05Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_user_h.htm
2017-01-28T21:36:06Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T21:38:58Z atgreen quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-28T21:40:44Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T21:41:39Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-28T21:45:40Z phoe: Okay - wish me luck. I'll start munching on DEFINE-CONDITION now, and its spec entry is one big chunk of documentation and TeX macros used nowhere else.
2017-01-28T21:45:41Z axion: Perhaps a dumb question: Is there anything preventing me from passing a string which can be very large to a function? Is there a limit on the size of the value being passed around?
2017-01-28T21:46:01Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-28T21:46:04Z axion: Besides memory of course.
2017-01-28T21:46:31Z phoe: axion:
2017-01-28T21:46:39Z phoe: clhs array-total-size-limit
2017-01-28T21:46:39Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_ar_tot.htm
2017-01-28T21:46:57Z axion: I am writing a function that inserts a record into a database, where one of the fields can be a blog article's full html content
2017-01-28T21:47:21Z phoe: axion: 4611686018427387901 bytes in my case
2017-01-28T21:47:27Z axion: Heh ok then :)
2017-01-28T21:47:29Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T21:47:43Z phoe: if HTML pages grow this big then it means that we're living in the wrong times
2017-01-28T21:47:48Z axion: hehe
2017-01-28T21:47:48Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T21:47:56Z phoe: and even right now we're getting dangerously close
2017-01-28T21:49:36Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-28T21:49:50Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-28T21:52:03Z Petit_Dejeuner: Reminder that a webpage about how little memory crash bandicoot used uses more memory than crash bandicoot.
2017-01-28T21:52:04Z phoe: this is exciting
2017-01-28T21:52:19Z phoe: I'm actually editing and fixing the specification for my favorite programming language.
2017-01-28T21:52:29Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-28T21:52:40Z phoe: Small, silly things like http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/m_defi_5.htm not being listed in the same way as other options.
2017-01-28T21:52:50Z phoe: But nonetheless.
2017-01-28T21:54:43Z phoe: I'm modernizing source code that was written more than twenty years ago.
2017-01-28T21:56:51Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T21:58:56Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-28T21:59:56Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:00:15Z S1ohy: Petit_Dejeuner: but were living in a world where we don't have to worry about memory size?
2017-01-28T22:00:28Z jason_m joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:01:38Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T22:02:16Z sdsadsda_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:03:40Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T22:05:07Z pjb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T22:06:24Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:06:28Z k4rtik quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-28T22:06:47Z sirkmatija quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T22:06:49Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-28T22:07:11Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T22:07:27Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:09:32Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T22:11:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:15:43Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:20:19Z phoe: oh gosh
2017-01-28T22:20:27Z phoe: I've finished parsing DEFINE-CONDITION
2017-01-28T22:20:41Z phoe: that was a huge blob of TeXdokumarkup.
2017-01-28T22:21:38Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-28T22:23:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:24:07Z djuber quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T22:24:25Z djuber joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:26:04Z sdsadsda_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T22:26:22Z phoe: Oh look, I'm done with conditions. Only restarts left.
2017-01-28T22:27:00Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-28T22:30:20Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:32:36Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:34:13Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T22:34:31Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:35:33Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:36:26Z phoe: clhs compute-restarts
2017-01-28T22:36:26Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_comp_1.htm
2017-01-28T22:36:46Z phoe: Inside that (return t) statement - is the T really needed there? It looks like it's just discarded anyway.
2017-01-28T22:38:19Z _death: correct
2017-01-28T22:43:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T22:44:17Z ikki quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-28T22:44:23Z Einwq quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-28T22:45:19Z phoe makes the edit
2017-01-28T22:45:25Z phoe: I hope the X3J13 forgives me
2017-01-28T22:45:26Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T22:45:34Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:47:44Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-28T22:53:00Z dim: axion: if using PostgreSQL as the target database (what else really?) then have a lool at the COPY protocol, it allows you to stream the content down to the database server
2017-01-28T22:55:20Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T22:56:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-28T22:57:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:57:38Z axion: dim: I'm using clsql for portability reasons. I develop with sqlite and pg for production
2017-01-28T22:57:53Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2017-01-28T22:57:59Z dim: you really should not develop on something different from what you use in production
2017-01-28T22:58:12Z axion: i use a subset of the code in production with sqlite too
2017-01-28T22:58:18Z dim: there's no way it make sense, and more importantly, there's no way it helps you
2017-01-28T22:58:38Z dim: any reason why you'd use both sqlite and pgsql in production then?
2017-01-28T22:59:25Z axion: i do not need pg for a few variants of these sites where users do not want to manage an installation or secure/maintain a real database.
2017-01-28T22:59:31Z dim: (some use cases involve local in-memory cache on mobile devices)
2017-01-28T23:00:09Z dim: I would argue that it'd cost you less to only support pgsql for everybody, but I would need more details before being able to make such a claim
2017-01-28T23:00:35Z dim: also there's a ton of features that are pgsql only and damn useful
2017-01-28T23:00:47Z axion: I am not arguing with you, but client demands rule
2017-01-28T23:00:48Z dim: let's mention listen/notify and wCTE
2017-01-28T23:00:57Z axion: I have been in this business for a long time, and prefer PG myself
2017-01-28T23:01:09Z dim: ok I'll drop off my pgsql hat then, but I can't understand your position
2017-01-28T23:01:20Z dim: usually the client buys what you sell him...
2017-01-28T23:02:42Z dim: anyway if you need to migrate/upgrade some SQLite instances into PostgreSQL, you know pgloader can help you ;-)
2017-01-28T23:04:51Z dim: anyway, gn!
2017-01-28T23:05:21Z phoe: clhs restart-case
2017-01-28T23:05:21Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_rst_ca.htm
2017-01-28T23:05:32Z phoe: Inside the first example, is that HANDLER-BIND equivalent to IGNORE-ERRORS?
2017-01-28T23:05:47Z phoe: And can be substituted for IGNORE-ERRORS?
2017-01-28T23:05:51Z phoe: And *should* be substituted for IGNORE-ERRORS?
2017-01-28T23:08:55Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T23:09:04Z phoe: ...screw the fact that there's an unbound CONDITION variable.
2017-01-28T23:09:51Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T23:10:28Z phoe: No, wait. It's not!
2017-01-28T23:10:37Z phoe: To hell with misindentation.
2017-01-28T23:11:53Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-28T23:12:54Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-28T23:13:20Z wtetzner quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T23:13:25Z wtetzner_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T23:14:34Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-28T23:15:02Z phoe: ...geez, this whole example with VERIFY-OR-FIX-PERFECT-SUNDAE is just crazy
2017-01-28T23:19:20Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T23:19:47Z prhodes quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-28T23:19:57Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T23:20:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T23:21:14Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-28T23:24:31Z phoe: I'm surprised that VALUES is a function and not a special operator.
2017-01-28T23:24:37Z phoe: Like, I expected it to be a specop.
2017-01-28T23:31:28Z |3b|: nah, no need, it evaluates arguments normally
2017-01-28T23:31:34Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T23:31:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-28T23:33:05Z marsjaninzmarsa quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.x-git-487-cbf5c38 - http://znc.in)
2017-01-28T23:36:15Z vicfred joined #lisp
2017-01-28T23:39:43Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-28T23:39:46Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-28T23:42:15Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-28T23:42:21Z NeverDie_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T23:43:06Z gigetoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-28T23:44:02Z NeverDie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T23:44:03Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-28T23:44:30Z S1ohy quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-28T23:46:36Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-28T23:51:37Z marsjaninzmarsa joined #lisp
2017-01-28T23:55:03Z prhodes joined #lisp
2017-01-28T23:55:23Z thijso joined #lisp
2017-01-28T23:56:07Z thijso quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-28T23:58:51Z gigetoo_ is now known as gigetoo
2017-01-28T23:59:06Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-28T23:59:39Z prhodes quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T00:02:40Z thijso joined #lisp
2017-01-29T00:07:09Z phoe: oh goodness
2017-01-29T00:07:14Z phoe: last file
2017-01-29T00:07:15Z phoe: clhs abort
2017-01-29T00:07:15Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_abort.htm
2017-01-29T00:07:24Z phoe: the one with function ABORT
2017-01-29T00:08:27Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-29T00:20:07Z phoe: (deftype funny-condition () '(and condition (not serious-condition)))
2017-01-29T00:20:11Z phoe: gods, too much CLUS
2017-01-29T00:20:22Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T00:21:59Z hydan joined #lisp
2017-01-29T00:24:27Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-29T00:24:32Z wtetzner_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T00:25:09Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T00:26:17Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-29T00:26:20Z Bike: i don't see how any of the examples on restart-case involve an ignore-errors equivalent
2017-01-29T00:35:44Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T00:45:12Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-29T00:46:33Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-29T00:50:41Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-29T00:51:11Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-29T00:51:58Z phoe: Bike: yes, I screwed up.
2017-01-29T00:55:54Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-29T00:56:09Z brandonz quit (Quit: bbl)
2017-01-29T00:56:25Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-29T01:00:28Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-29T01:00:47Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T01:01:17Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T01:03:48Z Xach:  I have a new report!
2017-01-29T01:04:46Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-29T01:05:05Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T01:05:35Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T01:06:06Z Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337616 <-- build times for cold fasl caches for every project
2017-01-29T01:06:33Z Xach: hmm, it actually may be very cold - cleared for every system file, not just every project.
2017-01-29T01:11:51Z Xach: there is a failure for mcclim under this cold cache experiment that does not happen otherwise
2017-01-29T01:11:59Z Xach: i don't understand it, though.
2017-01-29T01:13:05Z Xach: and the failure log file is very large and makes my browser sluggish. http://report.quicklisp.org/2017-01-28/failure-report/mcclim.html#clim
2017-01-29T01:13:16Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-29T01:16:31Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-29T01:16:47Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T01:17:52Z MarkusBarthlen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T01:19:38Z phoe: YES!
2017-01-29T01:19:43Z phoe pushes chapter Conditions
2017-01-29T01:19:59Z phoe: It was the worst one to process so far, with Conses coming in close.
2017-01-29T01:20:26Z phoe: It'll be a while until my hosting pulls the fresh version from git though.
2017-01-29T01:20:29Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T01:29:19Z paule32 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T01:30:06Z brandonz joined #lisp
2017-01-29T01:34:58Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-29T01:35:24Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-29T01:39:14Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T01:41:04Z hydan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T01:45:24Z bocaneri is now known as Sauvin
2017-01-29T01:46:50Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-29T01:54:33Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T01:56:51Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T02:01:19Z phoe: Haha! http://phoe.tymoon.eu/clus/doku.php?id=clus:todo <- Conditions.
2017-01-29T02:02:06Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T02:02:29Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T02:03:12Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-29T02:03:50Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T02:05:26Z Xach: Extremely hilarious?
2017-01-29T02:07:28Z phoe: Xach: more like, finally.
2017-01-29T02:07:33Z phoe: It's 3 AM and I can finally go to sleep.
2017-01-29T02:09:56Z phoe: Night, everyone.
2017-01-29T02:11:51Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-29T02:15:48Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-29T02:20:35Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-29T02:21:44Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T02:24:40Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-29T02:32:28Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-29T02:35:32Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-29T02:41:14Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-29T02:41:29Z omarkov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T02:46:20Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-29T02:49:08Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1))
2017-01-29T02:52:34Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-29T02:57:00Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-29T03:01:37Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T03:06:15Z rtm1046 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T03:16:27Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2017-01-29T03:18:40Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-29T03:18:57Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T03:19:14Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-29T03:19:26Z NeverDie_ is now known as NeverDie
2017-01-29T03:27:06Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T03:31:37Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T03:32:14Z daniel-s quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T03:32:27Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-29T03:41:49Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-29T03:42:30Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-29T03:44:09Z TruePika: wow, I might have found a "bug" in SBCL
2017-01-29T03:44:54Z TruePika: if you read a UTF16LE file containing a BOM, SBCL interprets the BOM as the zero-width non-breaking space
2017-01-29T03:45:11Z TruePika: which is correct if U+FEFF appears anywhere else in the file
2017-01-29T03:45:55Z TruePika: or hmm
2017-01-29T03:46:26Z TruePika: maybe I'm mistaken, since IANA UTF16LE says BOM gets interpreted as that space
2017-01-29T03:46:55Z TruePika: and :UTF16 isn't an external format, so I'm specifying :UTF16LE
2017-01-29T03:54:51Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-29T03:55:23Z TruePika: meh, in-place restructuring is annoying
2017-01-29T03:55:56Z TruePika: especially since I got messy to get proof-of-concept working
2017-01-29T03:56:08Z TruePika: didn't think about maintaining my code later
2017-01-29T03:59:47Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-29T04:04:18Z baconicsynergy joined #lisp
2017-01-29T04:06:13Z TruePika: If FOO is a structure with (:INCLUDE BAR), does (COPY-BAR FOO) make a FOO or BAR?
2017-01-29T04:10:48Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T04:21:04Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T04:36:50Z Bike: "The copier function creates a fresh structure that has the same type as its argument" TruePika
2017-01-29T04:37:04Z Bike: so maybe it makes a foo?
2017-01-29T04:39:15Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-29T04:41:56Z baconicsynergy quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-29T04:42:03Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T04:48:17Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-29T04:49:24Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T04:53:35Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-29T04:53:59Z White_Flame: TruePika: FEFF is a zero-width non-breaking space, and is _used_ as a BOM.  afaik, there is no separate BOM code
2017-01-29T04:56:09Z White_Flame: hmm, it looks like they did deprecate FEFF as a nbsp, so it is just a BOM now
2017-01-29T04:57:50Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:02:13Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T05:13:22Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:13:22Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-29T05:13:22Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:15:35Z ahungry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T05:16:28Z ahungry joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:19:05Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T05:19:06Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:19:06Z attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai
2017-01-29T05:19:06Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-29T05:19:06Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:20:41Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-29T05:22:23Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T05:22:39Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:23:52Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:26:13Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-29T05:26:44Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T05:29:01Z Peaches2 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-29T05:29:01Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T05:31:01Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:31:35Z akkad:  hmm... usocket does this. #+ecl (sb-bsd-sockets:sockopt-receive-timeout socket)
2017-01-29T05:31:35Z akkad:  
2017-01-29T05:32:33Z Bike: ecl has an sb-bsd-sockets system
2017-01-29T05:32:46Z Bike: "sb-" because it's copied from and compatible with the sbcl one
2017-01-29T05:33:11Z akkad: oic. wonder if it requires being loaded explicitly then. package unfound in delivered bin
2017-01-29T05:33:27Z Bike: maybe require it
2017-01-29T05:34:24Z akkad: thanks bike.
2017-01-29T05:38:39Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T05:39:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T05:40:49Z TruePika: ...structure's don't have `static` storage, do they...
2017-01-29T05:41:03Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-29T05:41:07Z TruePika: meh, time for some global variables instead
2017-01-29T05:41:54Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:43:17Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:43:32Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T05:46:26Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:46:26Z attila_lendvai quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-29T05:46:26Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-29T05:46:26Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:49:21Z teggi joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:53:11Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T05:54:30Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:54:30Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-29T05:54:30Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T05:58:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T05:58:34Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:02:17Z attila_lendvai quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-29T06:02:17Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:02:17Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-29T06:02:17Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:04:35Z beach: axion: When you pass a string as an argument to a function, you only use as much memory as a pointer needs, which is 8 bytes on a modern computer.
2017-01-29T06:04:42Z beach is reading the logs.
2017-01-29T06:08:02Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T06:08:19Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:11:53Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T06:12:30Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:16:17Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T06:16:42Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:16:42Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-29T06:16:42Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:20:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T06:21:38Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:22:57Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:27:17Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T06:28:23Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:28:23Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-29T06:28:23Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:33:53Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T06:34:34Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-29T06:34:35Z fiddlerwoaroof: I know this is not Common Lisp, but it's related to a CL project that's been I've been thinking about for a while: embedding a statically-typed DSL as a bunch of macros that check+erase types. http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/stchang/popl2017/
2017-01-29T06:35:11Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:35:11Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2017-01-29T06:35:11Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:35:31Z fiddlerwoaroof: They make heavy use of racket's macro-system, but I suspect I could just use a combination of normal CL macros and optima
2017-01-29T06:37:15Z mohabaks joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:38:08Z mohabaks: hello folks; just new to lisp; any good resources e.g books or tutorial are recommended for learning lisp .
2017-01-29T06:38:19Z fiddlerwoaroof: minion: tell mohabaks about PCL
2017-01-29T06:38:28Z minion: mohabaks: please look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2017-01-29T06:39:04Z attila_lendvai quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-29T06:39:11Z fiddlerwoaroof: I found that to be an extremely nice introduction to the language
2017-01-29T06:41:32Z lisp99 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:44:01Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:44:26Z mohabaks: fiddlerwoaroof, thanks :)
2017-01-29T06:44:27Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:46:09Z TruePika: why is it RGBA?
2017-01-29T06:46:16Z TruePika: that's in reverse alphabetical order
2017-01-29T06:47:50Z fiddlerwoaroof: It's the order of the rainbow: Red left, Green towards the middle and blue right
2017-01-29T06:47:54Z fiddlerwoaroof: (I suspect)
2017-01-29T06:48:16Z TruePika: fiddlerwoaroof: that _would_ be correct, methinks
2017-01-29T06:48:29Z TruePika: then alpha comes along later and gets tacked on the end
2017-01-29T06:49:07Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-29T06:51:20Z lisp99: do you guys think clojure is the successor to common lisp? ;)
2017-01-29T06:51:51Z djuber` joined #lisp
2017-01-29T06:51:54Z TruePika: I don't really think CL has a successor, at least it doesn't feel like it needs one right now
2017-01-29T06:52:10Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-29T06:52:27Z TruePika: just like how I don't feel C++ is the successor to C, since there are still some situations where C is better
2017-01-29T06:52:39Z beach: lisp99: Since this channel is dedicated to Common Lisp, you won't get an unbiased answer.
2017-01-29T06:52:45Z TruePika also lacks any sort of clojure experience
2017-01-29T06:52:52Z beach: lisp99: Not to mention that it is off topic.
2017-01-29T06:53:06Z fiddlerwoaroof finds several of clojure's design decisions suboptimal
2017-01-29T06:53:34Z lisp99: :p
2017-01-29T06:53:41Z fiddlerwoaroof: ##lisp is, I think, for dialect comparisons
2017-01-29T06:53:44Z fiddlerwoaroof: or #lispcafe
2017-01-29T06:54:16Z fiddlerwoaroof: (but the latter is for general CL-offtopic stuff, so it'll be biased)
2017-01-29T06:55:35Z sirkmatija: in my opinion clojure isn't even lisp, it's vecp (vector processing language). But seriously, I think some guys got drunk together one day and said "let's make a lisp dialect, while throwing away all good lisp traditions, knowledge and conventions" and that's how clojure was born.
2017-01-29T06:56:50Z lisp99: personally racket seems like a pretty good language to learn but it's a lot complicated
2017-01-29T06:57:02Z lisp99: particularly macros :(
2017-01-29T06:57:11Z beach: sirkmatija: There is no widely agreed-upon definition of what "Lisp" is.  Entering into such a discussion is only going to generate lots of opinions about undefined terms.  That is why we stick to Common Lisp, which has a clear definition.
2017-01-29T06:57:24Z lisp99: even though they seem to be doing it "the right way"
2017-01-29T06:57:28Z beach: sirkmatija: And, it is off topic, since #lisp is dedicated to Common Lisp.
2017-01-29T06:58:54Z fiddlerwoaroof: I think you could probably use *macroexpand-hook* to give Common Lisp a hygienic macroexpander, It's not clear to me that you'd want to though.
2017-01-29T06:59:59Z jackdaniel: words craft the reality, I prefer to refere to these objects as sterilized macros
2017-01-29T07:00:19Z lisp99: it's not just hygiene though, you can get better error messages and phase separation
2017-01-29T07:00:23Z jackdaniel: who said other macros are unhygienic? fact you can get your hands dirty doesn't mean you have to
2017-01-29T07:00:24Z beach: jackdaniel: I love it!
2017-01-29T07:00:37Z jackdaniel: :-)
2017-01-29T07:00:51Z fiddlerwoaroof: SYNTAX-PARSE, I have to grudgingly admit, is pretty cool
2017-01-29T07:01:08Z lisp99: yeah ;)
2017-01-29T07:02:23Z fiddlerwoaroof: But, in general, CL-style macros seem to be nicer to use than the alternatives
2017-01-29T07:02:38Z mohabaks quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-29T07:06:53Z parjanya joined #lisp
2017-01-29T07:15:43Z beach: So let's call Common Lisp-style macros "organic" and (following the suggestion of jackdaniel) Scheme-style macros "sterile" :)
2017-01-29T07:19:48Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T07:22:43Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T07:24:38Z fiddlerwoaroof: :)
2017-01-29T07:25:44Z rtm1046 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-29T07:26:05Z rjid joined #lisp
2017-01-29T07:29:34Z White_Flame: Common Lisp is the most direct descendant of ancestral LISP.  How wide the "Lisp" umbrella covers is up for debate
2017-01-29T07:30:36Z White_Flame: especially when languages like Scheme and Clojure are explicitly clean-room breaks
2017-01-29T07:31:18Z beach: It may be up for debate, but not in #lisp.
2017-01-29T07:31:41Z rjid: Ye cannae change the laws of physics.
2017-01-29T07:32:36Z lisp99: White_Flame: clojure isn't clean-room break
2017-01-29T07:33:01Z beach: *sigh*
2017-01-29T07:34:33Z bungoman joined #lisp
2017-01-29T07:35:15Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-29T07:36:34Z bungoman quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-29T07:37:01Z bungoman joined #lisp
2017-01-29T07:47:09Z rk[ghost]: for some sideways exicitement, try #erlang-lisp :)
2017-01-29T07:54:59Z nelder joined #lisp
2017-01-29T07:54:59Z rjid quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-29T07:56:48Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T07:57:23Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-29T07:58:00Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-29T08:02:24Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-29T08:03:43Z Peaches2 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T08:09:45Z daniel-s quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T08:09:45Z d4ryus2 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T08:12:58Z d4ryus1 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-29T08:23:49Z djuber` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T08:24:04Z djuber` joined #lisp
2017-01-29T08:27:14Z araujo joined #lisp
2017-01-29T08:41:29Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-29T08:49:40Z Bike quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-29T08:52:29Z djuber` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-29T09:01:23Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T09:01:40Z _main_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T09:01:44Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T09:02:28Z _main_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T09:03:38Z _main_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-29T09:08:28Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T09:11:13Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-29T09:12:22Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-29T09:16:22Z __main__ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T09:21:12Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, reboot, exeunt, etc.)
2017-01-29T09:22:59Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-29T09:25:18Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-29T09:32:19Z Blukunfando quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T09:41:17Z rk[ghost]: ls
2017-01-29T09:41:22Z rk[ghost]: jaja
2017-01-29T09:43:42Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-29T09:47:59Z shwouchkster quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-29T09:48:17Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-29T09:51:24Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T09:53:28Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-29T09:57:52Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T09:58:26Z maxmaeteling joined #lisp
2017-01-29T10:00:47Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-29T10:01:42Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-29T10:06:03Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T10:09:29Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-29T10:10:44Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T10:10:55Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-29T10:16:46Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-29T10:18:58Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T10:19:24Z Ven joined #lisp
2017-01-29T10:20:16Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-29T10:22:43Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T10:29:37Z francogrex joined #lisp
2017-01-29T10:31:26Z phoe: You know guys, it's somewhat magical to keep on working on more and more CL dictionary entries
2017-01-29T10:31:50Z phoe: and actually see more and more links in them go blue from red to indicate that the hyperlinks are actually there
2017-01-29T10:34:31Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-29T10:34:37Z beach: Excellent!
2017-01-29T10:34:48Z beach: The Common Lisp HyperSpec is not great with links and such.
2017-01-29T10:35:21Z beach: Frequently, the link goes to the glossary, and then there is no further link to a chapter.
2017-01-29T10:35:37Z phoe: To a chapter? What do you mean?
2017-01-29T10:35:54Z beach: I would have to find an example.
2017-01-29T10:36:17Z phoe: AFAIK you can always push the "up" button to land in the proper dictionary, and the "up" button to land in the respective chapter.
2017-01-29T10:36:36Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T10:36:43Z beach: Not from the glossary.
2017-01-29T10:36:47Z beach: And that's the problem.
2017-01-29T10:37:16Z beach: clhs string
2017-01-29T10:37:17Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_string.htm
2017-01-29T10:37:26Z francogrex: is there some sort of a package (any implementation) that helps a programmer with tips about optimizing a code (for example notify you where types were not declated or are ambiguous etc..)?
2017-01-29T10:37:48Z beach: Take this one: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_string.htm
2017-01-29T10:38:00Z beach: Now click on the link so "sequence".
2017-01-29T10:38:05Z beach: You end up in the glossary.
2017-01-29T10:38:26Z phoe: coerce can be used to convert a sequence of characters to a string.
2017-01-29T10:38:26Z beach: And there is no way to get from the glossary to the sequence dictionary or the sequence chapter.
2017-01-29T10:38:30Z phoe: You mean this "sequence"?
2017-01-29T10:38:33Z beach: Yes.
2017-01-29T10:39:16Z beach: francogrex: Put a high value for the SPEED optimize quality in SBCL, and you get notes about it.
2017-01-29T10:39:57Z beach: phoe: To summarize: I would like to see more links from the glossary to the chapters.
2017-01-29T10:40:11Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-29T10:40:17Z phoe: beach: file an issue about it at github.com/phoe/clus-data.
2017-01-29T10:40:32Z francogrex: ok
2017-01-29T10:40:33Z beach: OK, but right now I am entertaining lunch guests, so it would have to wait.
2017-01-29T10:40:35Z phoe: It's going to be non-trivial creative work.
2017-01-29T10:40:37Z phoe: Sure!
2017-01-29T10:41:46Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-29T10:43:18Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-29T10:44:19Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-29T10:45:13Z varjagg joined #lisp
2017-01-29T10:48:08Z phoe: beach: issue made, https://github.com/phoe/clus-data/issues/4
2017-01-29T10:55:56Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-29T11:00:38Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-29T11:01:36Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2017-01-29T11:02:38Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-29T11:06:51Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-29T11:10:18Z xaotuk joined #lisp
2017-01-29T11:11:43Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T11:15:59Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-29T11:17:19Z d4ryus2 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-29T11:20:44Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-29T11:21:05Z deank quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T11:21:15Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2017-01-29T11:24:13Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T11:31:48Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-29T11:34:41Z maxmaeteling quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-29T11:36:03Z guanchao71 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T11:36:14Z francogrex left #lisp
2017-01-29T11:36:39Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-29T11:38:37Z xaotuk quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T11:42:46Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-29T11:46:02Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-29T11:48:17Z francogrex joined #lisp
2017-01-29T11:48:56Z francogrex: beach`: it isn't showing the notes here, am i doing something wrong?: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337651
2017-01-29T11:50:46Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T11:51:01Z guanchao71 quit (Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com)
2017-01-29T11:51:32Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-29T11:58:53Z honeymead joined #lisp
2017-01-29T11:59:13Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T12:13:11Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-29T12:13:21Z papachan joined #lisp
2017-01-29T12:14:58Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-29T12:17:10Z francogrex: ?
2017-01-29T12:19:53Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-29T12:25:52Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T12:38:28Z francogrex quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T12:39:00Z schjetne_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T12:39:01Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-29T12:39:05Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-29T12:44:17Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-29T12:49:29Z Amplituhedron quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T12:49:35Z phoe: hahaha
2017-01-29T12:49:36Z phoe: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/v_pl_plp.htm
2017-01-29T12:49:39Z phoe: the last example here
2017-01-29T12:49:48Z phoe: I was like, "wtf why am I suddenly reading Perl"
2017-01-29T12:51:47Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-29T12:55:53Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-29T12:58:23Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-29T13:00:05Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T13:00:27Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-29T13:00:48Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-29T13:01:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-29T13:02:44Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T13:02:52Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T13:04:37Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-29T13:13:33Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T13:15:35Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-29T13:15:58Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-29T13:16:42Z kodnin: Any suggestions on libraries that allow you to schedule a function every x milliseconds?
2017-01-29T13:17:11Z phoe: kodnin: that's a hard issue
2017-01-29T13:17:16Z phoe: how precise do you need to be?
2017-01-29T13:17:32Z kodnin: phoe: musical precision? :-)
2017-01-29T13:17:43Z phoe: https://github.com/npatrick04/timer-wheel
2017-01-29T13:17:55Z phoe: and a prayer to your garbage collector
2017-01-29T13:18:17Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-29T13:19:07Z Amplituhedron quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T13:20:18Z kodnin: phoe: Hmmm, I'm looking into it.
2017-01-29T13:21:56Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-29T13:23:19Z sirkmatija quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-29T13:26:34Z cpape quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2017-01-29T13:28:47Z eSVG joined #lisp
2017-01-29T13:31:18Z cpape joined #lisp
2017-01-29T13:36:33Z eSVG quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T13:39:08Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T13:39:30Z phoe: There was an article describing the issue.
2017-01-29T13:39:32Z phoe: But I can't find it.
2017-01-29T13:39:41Z phoe: beach: you've sent me the link before, do you perhaps have it somewhere?
2017-01-29T13:40:33Z otwieracz: No i mi smutno. :(
2017-01-29T13:40:36Z otwieracz: OOoops, not here.
2017-01-29T13:40:59Z |3b|: phoe: if you are making an update of the spec, it would be nice to have a fully expanded table of contents, including all section names. there are lots of sections where i would recognize the name but can't remember which chapter they are in
2017-01-29T13:46:21Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-29T13:50:18Z phoe: |3b|: file an issue for that.
2017-01-29T13:50:28Z kodnin quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T13:50:32Z phoe: https://github.com/phoe/clus-data
2017-01-29T13:50:50Z phoe: I'll take care of these once I finish importing the dictionaries.
2017-01-29T13:51:09Z phoe: But a table of contents sounds like a pretty simple thing to do, actually.
2017-01-29T13:55:02Z schjetne_ is now known as schjetne
2017-01-29T14:02:19Z phoe: actually |3b| https://github.com/phoe/clus-data/issues/5
2017-01-29T14:02:22Z phoe: done it, thanks for the idea
2017-01-29T14:02:23Z Patzy quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-29T14:02:30Z Patzy joined #lisp
2017-01-29T14:04:53Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2017-01-29T14:04:53Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-29T14:04:53Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2017-01-29T14:04:53Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-29T14:14:47Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-29T14:15:30Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T14:16:17Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-29T14:20:21Z gacepa joined #lisp
2017-01-29T14:23:34Z teggi quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-29T14:28:54Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-29T14:30:34Z ak5 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T14:31:15Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T14:45:23Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-29T14:54:49Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-29T14:56:50Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-29T14:57:51Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:00:39Z phoe: Ladies and gentlemen: chapter Environment is ready!
2017-01-29T15:00:48Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:01:33Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:03:50Z sirkmatija quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-29T15:04:17Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:15:08Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:15:52Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-29T15:17:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:21:03Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-29T15:22:16Z kodnin joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:22:20Z kodnin quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-29T15:23:52Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T15:28:18Z ak5 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:29:10Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:29:40Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2017-01-29T15:29:40Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:29:40Z Lord_of_Life quit (Changing host)
2017-01-29T15:29:40Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:30:23Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-29T15:31:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:37:36Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:38:15Z mrottenkolber quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T15:38:37Z codeone joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:38:50Z beach: phoe: Congratulations!
2017-01-29T15:38:57Z beach: phoe: What link is it you want?
2017-01-29T15:40:59Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:41:39Z mrottenkolber quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T15:44:12Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:44:12Z mrottenkolber quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T15:45:42Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T15:49:01Z phoe: beach: What do you mean?
2017-01-29T15:50:27Z phoe: Oh, I see.
2017-01-29T15:50:42Z phoe: The one kodnin asked for, the one for firing a function each X milliseconds.
2017-01-29T15:50:53Z phoe: But he's not around anymore so I think it's a stale request.
2017-01-29T15:52:12Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2017-01-29T15:52:12Z mrottenkolber quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T15:52:26Z sirkmatija quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T15:55:19Z marsjaninzmarsa quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.x-git-487-cbf5c38 - http://znc.in)
2017-01-29T15:55:41Z codeone quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T15:57:36Z foom joined #lisp
2017-01-29T16:00:01Z erjag joined #lisp
2017-01-29T16:00:04Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T16:01:30Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-29T16:01:49Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-29T16:02:46Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-29T16:07:01Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-29T16:07:34Z marsjaninzmarsa joined #lisp
2017-01-29T16:13:01Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-29T16:13:40Z klltkr joined #lisp
2017-01-29T16:14:12Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-29T16:14:48Z erjag is now known as varjagg
2017-01-29T16:15:04Z honeymead quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T16:18:24Z mishoo_ quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2017-01-29T16:22:46Z mishoo joined #lisp
2017-01-29T16:29:08Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-29T16:29:51Z gacepa quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-29T16:34:19Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-29T16:34:20Z wildlander quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2017-01-29T16:35:11Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-29T16:45:17Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/)
2017-01-29T16:46:31Z phoe: https://i.imgtc.com/7DlyLAm.png
2017-01-29T16:46:37Z phoe stands up to get some tea
2017-01-29T16:50:46Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-29T16:50:55Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T16:53:37Z manuel_ quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-29T16:54:05Z bgg_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T16:54:06Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T16:54:13Z bgg_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T16:54:34Z impaktor quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T17:02:04Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T17:03:19Z klltkr quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-29T17:03:29Z impaktor joined #lisp
2017-01-29T17:03:35Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T17:04:35Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-29T17:04:40Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-29T17:05:17Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2017-01-29T17:05:17Z yrk joined #lisp
2017-01-29T17:05:23Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T17:06:58Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-29T17:07:01Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-29T17:08:08Z phoe: I'm really scared of working with the example of DEFINE-COMPILER-MACRO
2017-01-29T17:08:38Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T17:08:55Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T17:13:10Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-29T17:16:52Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-29T17:17:23Z saturniid quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-29T17:22:27Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-29T17:24:29Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-29T17:25:51Z saturniid joined #lisp
2017-01-29T17:26:26Z codemac joined #lisp
2017-01-29T17:38:48Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-29T17:39:19Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-29T17:39:29Z lisp99 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-29T17:40:53Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-29T17:41:27Z sirkmatija quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-29T17:42:39Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T17:51:40Z TruePika: (defun read-map (stream-or-filename &optional (read-game-info-p t))
2017-01-29T17:51:56Z TruePika: ...is there a nice, compact form to handle that STREAM-OR-FILENAME?
2017-01-29T17:52:59Z TruePika: I want to be able to pass a input STREAM or a PATHNAME
2017-01-29T17:53:29Z TruePika: ...though, I just realised I can do a recursive call, nvm
2017-01-29T17:56:43Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-29T17:59:46Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-29T17:59:54Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-29T18:00:10Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T18:02:43Z codemac quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T18:03:46Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-29T18:07:29Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-29T18:09:16Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-29T18:11:34Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T18:15:14Z TruePika: meh, SBCL isn't giving enough information in a backtrace
2017-01-29T18:17:07Z TruePika: 1: (ELT #(4 21 21 21 21 26 27 28 28 28 28 28 ...) 278) \ 2: (TERRARIA-MAP-DUMP.TILE:READ-TILES #<FLEXI-STREAMS::VECTOR-INPUT-STREAM {10032320B3}>)
2017-01-29T18:17:27Z TruePika: doesn't help much that I don't know _which_ ELT has a problem
2017-01-29T18:18:09Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T18:18:52Z TruePika: hm, actually I might be able to figure it out
2017-01-29T18:19:17Z parjanya: what are you doing, TruePika?
2017-01-29T18:19:33Z TruePika: parjanya: refactoring https://github.com/TruePikachu/terraria-map-dump
2017-01-29T18:20:05Z phoe: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_mexp_.htm
2017-01-29T18:20:13Z phoe:  (defmacro alpha (x y) `(beta ,x ,y)) =>  ALPHA
2017-01-29T18:20:13Z phoe:  (defmacro beta (x y) `(gamma ,x ,y)) =>  BETA
2017-01-29T18:20:14Z phoe:  (defmacro delta (x y) `(gamma ,x ,y)) =>  EPSILON
2017-01-29T18:20:16Z pareidolia quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-29T18:20:19Z phoe: ......EPSILON?
2017-01-29T18:20:39Z parjanya: ahh I’ve seen some let’s play of this game, looks cool
2017-01-29T18:20:43Z TruePika: phoe: lol
2017-01-29T18:21:04Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T18:21:21Z parjanya: if this should be in order... α β γ δ ε
2017-01-29T18:21:22Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-29T18:21:29Z phoe: How sane is this example at all? I see more usages of EPSILON in there despite it just appearing out of nowhere and having no clear definition.
2017-01-29T18:22:07Z TruePika: ...wow, this just causes more problems to arise
2017-01-29T18:22:20Z TruePika: 0] tmapdump.tile::*wall-id-mapper* => #(27)
2017-01-29T18:22:36Z TruePika: I know that array should be much longer
2017-01-29T18:22:57Z pareidolia joined #lisp
2017-01-29T18:25:36Z TruePika: got to be some weird bug I'm not seeing in PARSE-INFO https://github.com/TruePikachu/terraria-map-dump/blob/refactor/tile.lisp#L242
2017-01-29T18:26:16Z TruePika: ...wait, `FROM 1`?
2017-01-29T18:26:50Z TruePika: hmm
2017-01-29T18:26:58Z TruePika: no, that should be correct...
2017-01-29T18:27:50Z TruePika: if #'PARSE-SINGLE-INFO returns (VALUES FOO 3), I want (LIST ID ID ID) to be append-collected
2017-01-29T18:28:07Z TruePika: ...but FROM 1 BELOW #
2017-01-29T18:28:29Z TruePika: yeah, that should be a zero
2017-01-29T18:29:55Z no-such-file joined #lisp
2017-01-29T18:42:21Z no-such-file quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-29T18:42:32Z ym quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-29T18:42:41Z no-such-file joined #lisp
2017-01-29T18:51:26Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-29T18:52:10Z no-such-file quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-29T19:00:52Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-29T19:01:45Z Oladon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T19:03:24Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T19:03:58Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-29T19:05:49Z Oladon joined #lisp
2017-01-29T19:06:44Z no-such-file joined #lisp
2017-01-29T19:06:44Z shymega left #lisp
2017-01-29T19:09:03Z jackdaniel: declare goes before or after docstring?
2017-01-29T19:09:42Z TruePika: after
2017-01-29T19:10:11Z jackdaniel: thanks
2017-01-29T19:10:15Z TruePika: docstring is part of the e.g. DEFUN, declare is part of the BLOCK (?)
2017-01-29T19:11:16Z parjanya left #lisp
2017-01-29T19:12:03Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T19:15:05Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T19:16:11Z pjb: TruePika: locally, not block.
2017-01-29T19:16:50Z pjb: But actually, for defun, the declares are part of lambda: some declaration impacts the lambda more profundly than locally.
2017-01-29T19:16:51Z TruePika: pjb: I figured
2017-01-29T19:17:16Z pjb: jackdaniel: declare go both before AND after docstrings!
2017-01-29T19:17:41Z pjb: (defun foo (a b) (declare (integer a)) "returns a+b" (declare (integer b)) "not a docstring" (+ a b))
2017-01-29T19:17:42Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-29T19:17:47Z circ-user-kCDGy joined #lisp
2017-01-29T19:19:34Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T19:20:35Z jackdaniel: oh, that is interesting
2017-01-29T19:21:06Z pjb: There's a trap: (defun foo (a b) (declare (integer a)) (declare (integer b)) "not a docstring")
2017-01-29T19:22:29Z jackdaniel: well, that would be a bad style to put two declare one after another. I was wondering whenever I should (defun foo (bar) "docstring" (declare …)) or rather (defun foo (bar) (declare …) "docstring")
2017-01-29T19:22:40Z jackdaniel: if it doesn't make a difference then it's superb :)
2017-01-29T19:22:48Z pjb: I tend to write the docstring first.
2017-01-29T19:22:49Z jackdaniel: (that is – I don't have to remember anything
2017-01-29T19:22:50Z jackdaniel: )
2017-01-29T19:28:25Z k4rtik quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-29T19:28:43Z TruePika: ...wait
2017-01-29T19:28:51Z TruePika: meh
2017-01-29T19:29:17Z TruePika: I had an ecase to determine a category of map to render
2017-01-29T19:29:24Z TruePika: the default category is :DEFAULT
2017-01-29T19:29:37Z TruePika: I forgot that did something special
2017-01-29T19:30:00Z TruePika: surprised SBCL didn't report deleting unreachable code, TBH
2017-01-29T19:30:26Z TruePika: ...wait
2017-01-29T19:30:42Z TruePika: :DEFAULT doesn't do anything special...meh, that means I have a bug
2017-01-29T19:36:05Z test1600_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T19:36:08Z eSVG joined #lisp
2017-01-29T19:36:09Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-29T19:43:05Z seg_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T19:43:28Z ym joined #lisp
2017-01-29T19:43:50Z pvaneynd_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T19:45:52Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-29T19:45:55Z maxmaeteling joined #lisp
2017-01-29T19:47:25Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
2017-01-29T19:48:32Z seg joined #lisp
2017-01-29T19:50:55Z circ-user-kCDGy quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T19:52:53Z space_otter joined #lisp
2017-01-29T19:54:39Z phoe: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/d_dynami.htm
2017-01-29T19:54:54Z phoe: What is the #'STRING-SEARCH mentioned in the examples?
2017-01-29T19:55:51Z phoe: Is it just a standard #'SEARCH? The lambda list and context seems to match in this case.
2017-01-29T19:56:10Z phoe: It searches all packages for ones which contain the substring "COMMON-LISP".
2017-01-29T19:56:49Z _death: looks like it
2017-01-29T19:59:45Z handlex joined #lisp
2017-01-29T20:05:17Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T20:06:40Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T20:07:23Z handlex quit (Quit: handlex)
2017-01-29T20:08:54Z Younder joined #lisp
2017-01-29T20:09:48Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-29T20:09:57Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-29T20:10:10Z jason_m joined #lisp
2017-01-29T20:12:37Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-29T20:17:12Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-29T20:17:17Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-29T20:21:05Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T20:29:32Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-29T20:32:27Z diphuser joined #lisp
2017-01-29T20:32:58Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-29T20:33:12Z no-such-file quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-29T20:36:54Z Whitesquall joined #lisp
2017-01-29T20:46:43Z Whitesquall quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T20:47:40Z karswell` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T20:49:08Z pvaneynd_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T20:49:19Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-29T20:53:10Z heurist__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T20:54:45Z heurist__ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T20:55:11Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-29T20:55:11Z ym quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-29T20:56:26Z malice joined #lisp
2017-01-29T20:57:42Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T20:57:52Z knicklux quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-29T20:57:59Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-29T21:01:56Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-29T21:02:57Z ym joined #lisp
2017-01-29T21:03:05Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T21:04:54Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T21:05:10Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-29T21:07:37Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-29T21:11:46Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-29T21:12:08Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T21:12:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-29T21:13:36Z maxmaeteling quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-29T21:15:32Z eSVG quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T21:16:34Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-29T21:18:57Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-29T21:25:10Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T21:26:40Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-29T21:26:47Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T21:27:18Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-29T21:29:24Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-29T21:35:58Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-29T21:40:15Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-29T21:43:35Z lemoinem quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T21:46:01Z lisp99 joined #lisp
2017-01-29T21:47:48Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-29T21:48:23Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2017-01-29T21:53:48Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-29T22:02:26Z circ-user-ZCCmR joined #lisp
2017-01-29T22:06:10Z diphuser quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-29T22:13:40Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-29T22:15:19Z eSVG joined #lisp
2017-01-29T22:24:13Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-29T22:27:55Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T22:28:13Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T22:33:25Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T22:34:03Z Posterdati: hi
2017-01-29T22:34:34Z phoe: Hey
2017-01-29T22:35:11Z eSVG quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T22:35:25Z eSVG joined #lisp
2017-01-29T22:35:41Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-29T22:36:05Z Posterdati: please I need to insert a row in a db using postmodern for which one column is a timestamp and could be null too, I tested on the pgadmin and it worked, but via postmodern it gave me error: Database error 42804: column "date_expiration" is of type timestamp without time zone but expression is of type boolean
2017-01-29T22:40:12Z akkad: Xach: what is the format of the zs3 credentials file?
2017-01-29T22:44:58Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T22:45:31Z akkad: ahh found an example
2017-01-29T22:46:04Z codemac joined #lisp
2017-01-29T22:47:02Z developer joined #lisp
2017-01-29T22:48:35Z phoe: This is crazy.
2017-01-29T22:48:57Z phoe: I just finished chapter Evaluation and Compilation, it'll be fully online in 15 minutes.
2017-01-29T22:49:26Z phoe: The chapter Files is relatively tiny, but Flow is about 70 entries long.
2017-01-29T22:49:57Z phoe: This feels like sprinting.
2017-01-29T22:50:31Z diphuser joined #lisp
2017-01-29T22:51:39Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2017-01-29T22:53:16Z developer: Hi! Do you know any link about how to setup EMACS as LISP IDE (someone who are use to debug LISP Professionally)?
2017-01-29T22:53:35Z phoe: developer: yes, let me find it.
2017-01-29T22:53:51Z phoe: http://cliki.net/Getting%20Started
2017-01-29T22:53:57Z phoe: One of the first three links.
2017-01-29T22:56:06Z developer: I have Emacs+Quicklisp+Slime installed. I need to learn how to use it and how to debug.
2017-01-29T22:56:52Z svgDelux joined #lisp
2017-01-29T22:57:52Z phoe: developer: that's a longer story. Do you know the basics of Emacs?
2017-01-29T22:59:18Z developer: I am learning, but I already know some keyboard shortcuts and howto run emacs modes
2017-01-29T22:59:29Z eSVG quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T22:59:35Z daniel-s quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T22:59:41Z daniel-s joined #lisp
2017-01-29T22:59:56Z phoe: Good. Once you have that covered, try running Slime. M-x slime will land you in the REPL.
2017-01-29T23:01:06Z mateuszb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-29T23:01:45Z lisp99: developer: if you are a vim user i would recommend using spacemacs and common-lisp layer
2017-01-29T23:01:56Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2017-01-29T23:02:01Z Posterdati: developer: there are a lot of good and cheap book on lisp
2017-01-29T23:02:28Z Posterdati: developer: gigamonkey's one, and Conrad Barski's too
2017-01-29T23:02:52Z developer: Already did that, I use SBCL... but I don't know what are the common packages for ansi common lisp and how i can configure git in emacs, unit testing and continuous integration
2017-01-29T23:03:48Z joga quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-29T23:04:07Z developer: And also, how can I create a Lisp Project
2017-01-29T23:04:23Z phoe: developer:
2017-01-29T23:04:31Z phoe: google Quickproject.
2017-01-29T23:04:45Z phoe: http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html
2017-01-29T23:04:51Z phoe: oh, exactly this article.
2017-01-29T23:05:08Z phoe: Common packages: well, ask here. What do you want to achieve?
2017-01-29T23:06:38Z lisp99: developer: magit is the git package for emacs
2017-01-29T23:06:41Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T23:07:31Z developer: Thanks for the link. It was what I was looking for.
2017-01-29T23:07:35Z circ-user-ZCCmR quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T23:08:14Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-29T23:08:53Z developer: I will start learning AI with Lisp. I
2017-01-29T23:09:03Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-29T23:09:40Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-29T23:10:24Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-29T23:10:39Z developer: What is the best framework for web applications or websites?
2017-01-29T23:12:06Z phoe: developer: there are many. You might want to use hunchentoot as a web server, drakma as a HTTP client, ningle as a framework.
2017-01-29T23:12:44Z developer: :) Thx m8
2017-01-29T23:12:48Z phoe: np
2017-01-29T23:13:47Z joga joined #lisp
2017-01-29T23:14:11Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-29T23:15:51Z circ-user-kCDGy joined #lisp
2017-01-29T23:19:48Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-29T23:25:10Z aeth: Is there a reason why everyone uses hunchentoot over woo? https://github.com/fukamachi/woo
2017-01-29T23:29:51Z axion: I use clack and interchange both
2017-01-29T23:30:06Z axion: I am currently using woo, so you are wrong
2017-01-29T23:31:25Z knicklux quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T23:32:10Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-29T23:34:26Z diphuser quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-29T23:34:59Z aeth: axion: do you put woo behind nginx? or do you use something else? or do you expose it directly to the Internet?
2017-01-29T23:36:11Z drmeister: How is the sort order of the following methods determined?
2017-01-29T23:36:12Z nydel: i've had bad times exposing hunchentoot directly to web for various reasons, sometimes the daemonized sbcl process will start to leak memory, not sure where it happens, cl-daemonize, hunchentoot, socketry etc. behing apache.nginx i dont' get that problem.
2017-01-29T23:36:13Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/KRHTtIDg/
2017-01-29T23:36:45Z TMA: developer: http://eudoxia.me/article/common-lisp-sotu-2015
2017-01-29T23:36:59Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-29T23:37:16Z aeth: axion: also by "everyone" I mean, almost (and that's the real key word: "almost") everywhere where a server is recommended, I see hunchentoot, just like almost everywhere where testing is recommended I see 5am even though there are like 10 other test suites. Not literally "there does not exist a person in the world using woo"
2017-01-29T23:37:31Z drmeister: In ECL and Clasp I get an error:
2017-01-29T23:37:32Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/OG4qGmDe/
2017-01-29T23:37:51Z nydel: aeth: i feel like if a person existed in the community who used woo i would know her but i don't :)
2017-01-29T23:38:37Z Bike: drmeister: from what?
2017-01-29T23:38:46Z knicklux joined #lisp
2017-01-29T23:38:57Z drmeister: From this:     (clos:compute-applicable-methods-using-classes #'zap (list (find-class 'bar)))
2017-01-29T23:39:15Z Bike: ...well, so, how are zap and bar defined.
2017-01-29T23:39:21Z drmeister: There is no obvious order for the methods - they have the same precedence.
2017-01-29T23:39:24Z drmeister: Oh hang on.
2017-01-29T23:39:36Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/0RRhqjrP/
2017-01-29T23:39:48Z aeth: TMA: I don't trust that SotU because where I know the libraries, I don't agree with its judgment, so I can't agree with it where I don't know.
2017-01-29T23:40:04Z axion: aeth: I proxy nginx to woo
2017-01-29T23:40:05Z drmeister: sbcl comes up with an order - I'm guessing sbcl decides the order is arbitrary and ECL is throwing a fit
2017-01-29T23:40:07Z Bike: isn't it supposed to go left to right?
2017-01-29T23:40:34Z varjagg quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-29T23:40:50Z drmeister: Left to right in terms of the inheritance in the (defclass bar (foo-a foo-b) ())  definition?
2017-01-29T23:40:54Z aeth: TMA: in particular, I don't think anything is mature enough yet in the Common Lisp ecosystem in graphics above cl-opengl and cl-sdl2 (which the article dismisses as "lower level libraries"), so I wouldn't try to pick a winner there yet.
2017-01-29T23:41:01Z Bike: yeah. i'm not sure though.
2017-01-29T23:41:15Z Bike: "If both parameter specializers are classes, the more specific of the two methods is the method whose parameter specializer appears earlier in the class precedence list of the corresponding argument."
2017-01-29T23:41:22Z drmeister: I have a feeling that I'm stressing parts of ECL CLOS that haven't been stressed before.
2017-01-29T23:41:25Z Bike: so what's the cpl for bar?
2017-01-29T23:41:32Z Bike: diamond inheritance is weird.
2017-01-29T23:41:35Z drmeister: Checking...
2017-01-29T23:42:13Z drmeister: (clos::class-precedence-list (find-class 'bar)) -->  (#<The STANDARD-CLASS COMMON-LISP-USER::BAR> #<The STANDARD-CLASS COMMON-LISP-USER::FOO-A> #<The STANDARD-CLASS COMMON-LISP-USER::FOO-B> #<The STANDARD-CLASS COMMON-LISP-USER::FOO> #<The STANDARD-CLASS STANDARD-OBJECT> #<The BUILT-IN-CLASS T>)
2017-01-29T23:42:29Z Bike: so the foo-a method should be more applicable.
2017-01-29T23:42:31Z Bike: clhs 4.3.5
2017-01-29T23:42:31Z specbot: Determining the Class Precedence List: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/04_ce.htm
2017-01-29T23:42:42Z Bike: says that for multiple inheritance it does go left to right
2017-01-29T23:42:44Z drmeister: Where did you find that quote?   "If both parameter specializers are classes, the more specific of the two methods is the method whose parameter specializer appears earlier in the class precedence list of the corresponding argument."
2017-01-29T23:42:54Z Bike: clhs 7.6.6.1.2
2017-01-29T23:42:54Z specbot: Sorting the Applicable Methods by Precedence Order: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/07_ffab.htm
2017-01-29T23:43:08Z Bike: now, i don't know if mop compute-applicable-methods-using-classes has to do that
2017-01-29T23:43:13Z Bike: mop compute-applicable-methods-using-classes
2017-01-29T23:43:13Z specbot: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/compute-applicable-methods-using-classes.html
2017-01-29T23:43:33Z Bike: no, seems like it ought to work...
2017-01-29T23:43:40Z TMA: aeth: true. but for the hunchentoot/woo division it implicitly suggests woo
2017-01-29T23:43:55Z Bike: does an actual call to zap work on ecl?
2017-01-29T23:44:51Z aeth: TMA: Yeah, but I don't think cosolidation (the aim of the article) is the right approach in general for a lot of things. You should promote the top whatever options, because there's probably something Y can do that X can't and vice versa. Sure, have a first option, but then move onto the second if the first doesn't work.
2017-01-29T23:45:03Z drmeister: Bike: Yes - but ECL bypasses some CLOS methods.
2017-01-29T23:45:23Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-29T23:45:35Z aeth: TMA: i.e. I think the best approach for libraries is ordered lists, where you iterate down the list if the one you're on doesn't work, rather than trying to consolidate into one that probably doesn't fit all use cases.
2017-01-29T23:45:41Z Bike: what?
2017-01-29T23:45:48Z Bike: you mean it doesn't use the mop function?
2017-01-29T23:47:24Z TMA: aeth: I basically agree. on the other hand I think that the sotu has its merits too
2017-01-29T23:48:18Z aeth: Well, yeah, and there are some places where consolidation is needed. Generally for very well-defined things like wrapping a C library, e.g. cl-opengl or cl-sdl2.
2017-01-29T23:49:21Z drmeister: I don't think it does - it implements some things in C.   I'm using the MOP functions with the new dispatch code and I'm running into this error with that diamond inheritance pattern and I see the same error when I use compute-applicable-methods-using-classes in ECL.
2017-01-29T23:49:44Z drmeister: I know for certain that ECL doesn't use compute-applicable-methods-using-classes in its generic function dispatch machinery.
2017-01-29T23:50:11Z Bike: i think that's allowed.
2017-01-29T23:50:12Z drmeister: This is the function that sorts two method specializers based on the class of the argument:
2017-01-29T23:50:14Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/5s3VmSfl/
2017-01-29T23:50:31Z Bike: or... maybe not... hm.
2017-01-29T23:50:52Z drmeister: There is no clause that compares the order of the specializers in the arguments class class-precedence-list
2017-01-29T23:51:35Z Bike: i think that's the last two cond clauses
2017-01-29T23:51:42Z drmeister: Wait - yeah - you are right.
2017-01-29T23:51:47Z drmeister: WTH?
2017-01-29T23:51:53Z Bike: yeah kind of a weird way to do it lol
2017-01-29T23:53:58Z lisp99: so you guys use dexador or drakma for a http client?
2017-01-29T23:55:40Z axion: I have a hard time with regex. Can someone give me an idea how to use cl-ppcre:regex-replace-all to remove all newline characters in addition to all contiguous spaces of at least 2?
2017-01-29T23:56:06Z drmeister: Hmm, I think it's got the wrong class in arg-class.   It should be #<standard-class bar>    It's actually #<standard-class standard-class>
2017-01-29T23:56:23Z drmeister: It's happening in ECL and Clasp.
2017-01-29T23:56:34Z drmeister: I think it should be #<standard-class bar>   - otherwise it doesn't make sense.
2017-01-29T23:56:40Z drmeister: Does it?
2017-01-29T23:57:24Z Bike: yeah that's weird now that you mention it.
2017-01-29T23:58:34Z saturniid quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-30T00:00:48Z phoe: drmeister: it looks like a bug in ECL/Clasp CLOS implementation.
2017-01-30T00:01:03Z drmeister: phoe: Which part?
2017-01-30T00:01:12Z phoe: The general class precedence.
2017-01-30T00:02:15Z phoe: Class BAR is "more" FOO-A than FOO-B because FOO-A is before FOO-B in the DEFCLASS FOO's superclass list.
2017-01-30T00:02:46Z drmeister: Yes, I agree - I'm trying to track down why.
2017-01-30T00:03:40Z akkad quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T00:03:53Z Intensity quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-30T00:04:59Z cross quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-30T00:05:05Z phoe: Actually
2017-01-30T00:05:14Z phoe: How can I (USE-PACKAGE :CLOSER-MOP) in ECL?
2017-01-30T00:05:21Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/m3zHScQu/
2017-01-30T00:05:33Z drmeister: phoe: I don't know - I've never done it.
2017-01-30T00:05:44Z drmeister: The paste above is the clearest illustration of the problem in ECL.
2017-01-30T00:06:10Z phoe: drmeister: Hahaha
2017-01-30T00:06:22Z pjb quit (Quit: Be seeing you!)
2017-01-30T00:06:34Z saturniid joined #lisp
2017-01-30T00:06:40Z phoe: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337724
2017-01-30T00:07:00Z circ-user-ZCCmR joined #lisp
2017-01-30T00:07:14Z Bike: closer has a closer-cl package or something for that, i think
2017-01-30T00:07:25Z phoe: drmeister: What is your ECL version?
2017-01-30T00:07:49Z drmeister: 16.0.0
2017-01-30T00:08:05Z phoe: Update to 16.1.2 - it works on my machine.
2017-01-30T00:08:14Z phoe: As you can see above,.
2017-01-30T00:08:29Z drmeister: Hmm  jackdaniel has been busy
2017-01-30T00:08:42Z drmeister: Where are error reports made for ecl?
2017-01-30T00:09:00Z phoe: drmeister: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/ecl/ecl
2017-01-30T00:09:14Z phoe: I guess here, but that's just a guess.
2017-01-30T00:10:55Z Bike: the code in that repo still has something to signal that error
2017-01-30T00:11:18Z Bike: well, maybe it gets rid of the standard-class problem instead, i guess
2017-01-30T00:13:49Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-30T00:16:30Z NeverDie joined #lisp
2017-01-30T00:20:27Z nowhere_man quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T00:20:32Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-30T00:21:19Z S1ohy joined #lisp
2017-01-30T00:21:59Z drmeister: There were some changes to the kernel.lsp source file in ecl a year ago that touched this behavior.
2017-01-30T00:22:41Z drmeister: It's a matter of when #'class-of is applied to the args
2017-01-30T00:23:35Z drmeister: I used ediff and copied the fixes from the ECL kernel.lsp into Clasp's kernel.lsp - now it works.
2017-01-30T00:24:38Z drmeister: Aligning ECL's Common Lisp code with Clasp's just bumped up in importance in my almost infinite list of things to do.
2017-01-30T00:25:42Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-30T00:28:43Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T00:30:24Z phoe: drmeister: I'm glad!
2017-01-30T00:30:41Z phoe: And good night everyone, more CLUS will happen tomorrow.
2017-01-30T00:31:17Z akkad joined #lisp
2017-01-30T00:32:20Z cross joined #lisp
2017-01-30T00:32:46Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-30T00:32:50Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-30T00:32:51Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-30T00:33:59Z circ-user-ZCCmR quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T00:34:23Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T00:36:40Z circ-user-kCDGy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T00:37:04Z circ-user-kCDGy joined #lisp
2017-01-30T00:37:51Z Intensity joined #lisp
2017-01-30T00:38:56Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T00:50:53Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-30T00:52:38Z MoALTz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-30T00:55:36Z S1ohy quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1))
2017-01-30T00:58:55Z circ-user-ZCCmR joined #lisp
2017-01-30T00:59:46Z circ-user-kCDGy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-30T01:00:30Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T01:03:09Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2017-01-30T01:03:14Z circ-user-ZCCmR quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T01:03:38Z ebzzry: How can I detect if the swank server is running?
2017-01-30T01:03:47Z micro___ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T01:04:18Z segmond joined #lisp
2017-01-30T01:05:05Z micro___ is now known as `micro
2017-01-30T01:33:11Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-30T01:39:34Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-30T01:43:05Z codemac quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T01:46:26Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-30T01:46:34Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T01:50:06Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-30T01:54:43Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-30T01:55:16Z papachan quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-30T01:57:49Z reepca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T01:58:14Z reepca joined #lisp
2017-01-30T02:02:11Z ghard`` joined #lisp
2017-01-30T02:02:11Z ghard` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T02:09:32Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-30T02:12:57Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-30T02:17:08Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T02:32:27Z MetaHertz quit (Quit: Всем пока! // Goodbye everyone!)
2017-01-30T02:35:05Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T02:39:58Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-30T02:40:51Z eSVG joined #lisp
2017-01-30T02:42:41Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-30T02:44:56Z svgDelux quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T02:47:32Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-30T03:00:31Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T03:06:17Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-30T03:08:04Z circ-user-ZCCmR joined #lisp
2017-01-30T03:10:00Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-30T03:12:39Z reepca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T03:14:53Z lnostdal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T03:15:29Z lnostdal joined #lisp
2017-01-30T03:19:19Z beach` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-30T03:22:47Z daniel-s_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T03:24:21Z hylisper joined #lisp
2017-01-30T03:25:35Z daniel-s quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T03:26:55Z hylisper left #lisp
2017-01-30T03:29:35Z developer quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T03:31:06Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-30T03:31:08Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-30T03:33:04Z ak5 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T03:34:42Z reepca joined #lisp
2017-01-30T03:36:08Z wtetzner quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T03:50:33Z daniel-s_ is now known as daniels-
2017-01-30T03:50:38Z daniels- is now known as daniel-s
2017-01-30T03:52:18Z circ-user-ZCCmR quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T04:05:31Z pillton: From elisp or cl?
2017-01-30T04:11:37Z codemac joined #lisp
2017-01-30T04:20:41Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-30T04:30:47Z Blukunfando joined #lisp
2017-01-30T04:31:08Z parjanya- joined #lisp
2017-01-30T04:31:13Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-30T04:33:35Z tarhuntas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T04:33:45Z travv0 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T04:33:46Z tarhuntas quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-30T04:35:47Z Peaches2 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-30T04:35:53Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-30T04:36:10Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T04:38:40Z parjanya- quit (Quit: exit ille)
2017-01-30T04:40:16Z sdsadsdas quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-30T04:40:41Z ebzzry: pillton: cl
2017-01-30T04:42:36Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T04:44:10Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-30T04:48:37Z parjanya joined #lisp
2017-01-30T04:49:59Z ebzzry: I settled with: (uiop:run-program "lsof -i :1234" :output :string :ignore-error-status t)
2017-01-30T04:53:04Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-30T04:53:09Z pillton: (describe 'swank::*connections*)
2017-01-30T04:53:41Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T04:54:07Z bigos quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-30T04:57:07Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-30T05:04:39Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-30T05:06:04Z ebzzry: pillton: sweet
2017-01-30T05:06:32Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-30T05:06:40Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T05:07:58Z ebzzry: pillton: what function can process that variable?
2017-01-30T05:09:06Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-30T05:19:01Z deank quit
2017-01-30T05:19:53Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-30T05:20:38Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T05:20:44Z holycow joined #lisp
2017-01-30T05:24:08Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T05:25:29Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-30T05:36:12Z rk[ghost]: (mix (mash (boil potatoes)) (mapcar 'chop '(purple-onion bell-pepper jalapeno-pepper basil walnuts)))
2017-01-30T05:42:35Z Fare: This post by ESR about Rust seems to apply to a point to CL (quicklisp) packages: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7303
2017-01-30T05:46:23Z ebzzry quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T05:48:01Z beach: Fare: I think you may be right.  One important role that #lisp plays is to give advice about what systems to use when there are several available.  But many people do not participate in #lisp, so it would be good if there were a different mechanism as well.
2017-01-30T05:49:18Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-30T05:51:13Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T05:52:53Z lisp99: tbh there are not that many competing packages in quicklisp (mostly http related)
2017-01-30T05:55:18Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-30T05:56:47Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-30T05:58:20Z Quadrescence: How about Tinder, but for ASDF systems?
2017-01-30T05:59:17Z teggi joined #lisp
2017-01-30T05:59:19Z beach: What is Tinder?
2017-01-30T06:01:35Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T06:01:40Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2017-01-30T06:02:04Z Bike: how about grindr, but for
2017-01-30T06:02:17Z Bike: i think anything divorced from actual social interaction would have problems
2017-01-30T06:02:59Z flip214: ebzzry: see http://paste.lisp.org/display/337052 for a handler-case example.
2017-01-30T06:06:36Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T06:06:43Z Quadrescence: beach, an app where you swipe left and right on faces of people around you in order to meet them for typically romantic purposes ;)
2017-01-30T06:07:21Z beach: Oh! Heh!
2017-01-30T06:08:47Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-30T06:09:25Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-30T06:09:47Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-30T06:13:12Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T06:14:56Z flip214: beach: good morning (yes, you've been around for some time already ;)
2017-01-30T06:15:11Z flip214: beach: didn't you want to have a third talk for ELS reviewed?
2017-01-30T06:16:46Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T06:16:50Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-30T06:18:21Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T06:19:01Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-30T06:21:47Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-30T06:21:50Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T06:22:46Z beach: flip214: Yes, but it is not finished yet.  I have been told that the deadline was extended, but I haven't seen the official announcement of that yet.
2017-01-30T06:23:36Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2017-01-30T06:24:03Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-30T06:32:03Z codemac quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-30T06:32:23Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T06:32:25Z Khisanth joined #lisp
2017-01-30T06:33:20Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-30T06:35:20Z flip214: well, good luck ;)
2017-01-30T06:35:39Z beach: Thanks.
2017-01-30T06:43:08Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-30T06:50:13Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-30T06:52:20Z Quadrescence: the beach paper density is indicative of not enough lisp conferences or journals
2017-01-30T06:54:23Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T06:55:06Z beach: Or of my having many ideas. :)
2017-01-30T06:55:27Z beach: Quadrescence: The ILC wasn't that popular, actually.
2017-01-30T06:56:08Z beach: Last time (in Montreal), there were less than 40 participants (as I recall), wheras ELS has almost 100.
2017-01-30T06:56:43Z lisp99: what's ELS?
2017-01-30T06:56:54Z beach: European Lisp Symposium
2017-01-30T06:57:16Z beach: http://www.european-lisp-symposium.org/editions/2017/
2017-01-30T06:57:45Z dmiles quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T06:58:37Z beach: Quadrescence: If it turns out that there are regularly lots of good papers submitted to ELS, I think a better strategy would be to extend it by one day (from 2 to 3 days).
2017-01-30T06:58:53Z Quadrescence: maybe so
2017-01-30T07:00:03Z parjanya quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-30T07:00:03Z parjanya- joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:00:05Z parjanya- is now known as parjanya
2017-01-30T07:00:17Z beach: Quadrescence: Will you be attending this year?
2017-01-30T07:00:19Z parjanya- joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:00:19Z parjanya quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-30T07:00:22Z parjanya- is now known as parjanya
2017-01-30T07:00:36Z parjanya quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-30T07:00:37Z parjanya- joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:00:42Z parjanya- is now known as parjanya
2017-01-30T07:00:51Z parjanya quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-30T07:00:52Z parjanya- joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:00:55Z parjanya- is now known as parjanya
2017-01-30T07:01:07Z parjanya quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-30T07:01:07Z parjanya- joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:01:10Z parjanya- is now known as parjanya
2017-01-30T07:01:23Z parjanya quit (Disconnected by services)
2017-01-30T07:01:32Z macdavid313 quit (Quit: macdavid313)
2017-01-30T07:01:54Z macdavid313 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:03:41Z mateuszb_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:04:19Z mateuszb quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-30T07:07:43Z phoe: beach: I have a mail telling me it was extended to the 6th.
2017-01-30T07:11:08Z dmiles joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:13:05Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-30T07:13:05Z skaria joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:13:12Z skaria quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T07:14:16Z skaria joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:14:18Z beach: phoe: Thanks!
2017-01-30T07:24:11Z skaria- joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:24:40Z skaria- quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T07:26:55Z heurist__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-30T07:29:48Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-30T07:29:51Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-30T07:31:34Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:31:43Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-30T07:33:54Z qlkzy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-30T07:33:54Z neuri8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T07:33:54Z glamas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:33:54Z e quit (Quit: edk)
2017-01-30T07:33:56Z edk joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:35:23Z neuri8 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:36:09Z glamas quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-30T07:36:50Z Quadrescence: beach, I'm not sure I'll make it to ELS. If there's a paper extension maybe I'll try to get one in on some stuff we've been working on
2017-01-30T07:36:54Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:37:32Z qlkzy joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:38:19Z mateuszb_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T07:39:00Z sz0 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:39:08Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-30T07:42:29Z knicklux quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-30T07:46:25Z Whitesquall joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:48:14Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:49:07Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T07:51:58Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-30T07:54:31Z arbv joined #lisp
2017-01-30T08:01:34Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T08:02:11Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T08:03:55Z Peaches2 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T08:04:51Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T08:09:41Z d4ryus1 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T08:12:47Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-30T08:15:35Z beach: Quadrescence: Apparently there is an extension.  It hasn't been officially announced yet, though.
2017-01-30T08:16:54Z xaotuk joined #lisp
2017-01-30T08:17:01Z jackdaniel: according to http://genome.ufl.edu/ELS17/ it is announced
2017-01-30T08:17:04Z jackdaniel: o/
2017-01-30T08:17:56Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-30T08:18:44Z beach: Hello jackdaniel.
2017-01-30T08:19:02Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T08:19:03Z beach: Hmm, now I wonder which web site is the official one.
2017-01-30T08:20:42Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-30T08:22:52Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T08:34:31Z edk is now known as e
2017-01-30T08:38:10Z xaotuk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T08:47:36Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-30T08:48:31Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T08:49:50Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T08:51:03Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T08:54:04Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-30T08:56:28Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2017-01-30T08:58:45Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T09:00:05Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:02:49Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T09:06:13Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-30T09:08:48Z yaewa joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:09:55Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-30T09:11:09Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:11:55Z moei quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T09:12:08Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T09:13:56Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:15:57Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:18:27Z TruePika quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-30T09:20:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T09:20:11Z TruePika joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:21:23Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:21:40Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:27:18Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:32:21Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-30T09:33:51Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:34:03Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T09:34:06Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:34:39Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:35:34Z phoe_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-30T09:35:59Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:36:34Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:37:41Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:38:42Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T09:39:36Z Bike quit (Quit: nut)
2017-01-30T09:42:24Z shka: hi all
2017-01-30T09:42:38Z shka: any idea what eugenia used for docs here?
2017-01-30T09:42:42Z shka: http://mr.gy/software/maxpc/api.html
2017-01-30T09:42:54Z macdavid313 quit (Quit: macdavid313)
2017-01-30T09:44:00Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-30T09:44:25Z nostoi joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:45:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:45:13Z eSVG quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T09:47:13Z holycow: shka: good question.  i was just loking at docuwiki which kind of looks like this, but i don't know.
2017-01-30T09:48:14Z phoe_: that's not dokuwiki.
2017-01-30T09:48:19Z phoe_: it looks like a static website of sorts.
2017-01-30T09:48:25Z Whitesquall quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T09:48:35Z phoe_: something that generates documentation out of .mk2 files like the one linked on this page.
2017-01-30T09:48:42Z phoe_: I'd ask on https://github.com/eugeneia/maxpc perhaps.
2017-01-30T09:50:02Z eSVG joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:50:57Z shka: good idea
2017-01-30T09:51:06Z shka: i'm ok with static pages
2017-01-30T09:54:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T09:55:47Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T09:57:37Z eSVG quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T10:02:43Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:04:59Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-30T10:06:08Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:06:51Z redeemed joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:10:57Z xhe joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:11:11Z xhe quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-30T10:12:32Z xhe joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:12:45Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-30T10:13:01Z Einwq joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:13:18Z xhe quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-30T10:13:42Z xhe joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:14:10Z nostoi quit (Quit: Verlassend.)
2017-01-30T10:16:05Z schjetne quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T10:16:53Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:17:14Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T10:17:22Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:17:32Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:18:52Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:19:50Z skaria quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T10:20:29Z skaria joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:20:30Z beach: phoe: Are you around?
2017-01-30T10:20:44Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T10:22:00Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:22:22Z `JRG joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:22:42Z shka: beach: good day!
2017-01-30T10:22:51Z beach: Hello shka.
2017-01-30T10:23:16Z beach: phoe: It would be very unfortunate if ELS required registration for the full conference, especially since ELS has tried to keep the student fee very low.  The fees that are published are several times higher than the traditional ones.  If you have time, could you write to Didier and ask whether this is a change of policy?
2017-01-30T10:24:49Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T10:26:42Z phoe_: beach: Yes!
2017-01-30T10:26:42Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-30T10:27:16Z phoe_: beach: it turns out that I misclicked. The first page was particularly confusing to me.
2017-01-30T10:27:26Z beach: I saw your second message, yes.
2017-01-30T10:27:54Z phoe_: Hopefully it'll clear the confusion for other students who try to register.
2017-01-30T10:27:55Z beach: One more thing: membership in ACM is inexpensive and gives a significant reduction.  Unless your university gives you access to PDFs of all ACM papers, becoming a member can pay off.
2017-01-30T10:28:04Z beach: Yes, I agree.
2017-01-30T10:28:05Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:28:09Z phoe_: What is ACM?
2017-01-30T10:28:19Z beach: Association for Computing Machinery.
2017-01-30T10:28:31Z phoe_: Also, it looks like there is no difference between ACM and non-ACM fees.
2017-01-30T10:29:00Z beach: Oh?
2017-01-30T10:29:03Z phoe_: € 120 in both cases.
2017-01-30T10:29:24Z beach: Hmm, maybe it's not as expensive as I thought.
2017-01-30T10:29:30Z phoe_: https://i.imgtc.com/EvKm8xa.png
2017-01-30T10:29:49Z phoe_: I mean, there's E50 off for the full ride.
2017-01-30T10:29:59Z phoe_: But that's too expensive for me anyway.
2017-01-30T10:30:03Z beach: OK, so I must have misread.
2017-01-30T10:30:13Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T10:30:57Z beach: I saw a different page.
2017-01-30T10:31:22Z beach: Strange.
2017-01-30T10:36:00Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:38:11Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-30T10:39:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:42:49Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T10:43:09Z beach: I see this page: http://2017.programming-conference.org/attending/registration
2017-01-30T10:43:26Z hzp joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:44:13Z beach: It says 350€ for early-student.
2017-01-30T10:44:18Z pjb: I would just note that 550 euro is about the price of a MacMini…
2017-01-30T10:46:08Z beach: But that page is inconsistent with the one you get when you click on the registration link.
2017-01-30T10:46:18Z beach: Significantly different.
2017-01-30T10:47:45Z beach: regular ACM early: 500€ on that page, 150€ on the clickable registration page.
2017-01-30T10:48:26Z TMA: it gets updated to a different figure on the next page though
2017-01-30T10:49:22Z beach: Wow!
2017-01-30T10:49:38Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-30T10:49:47Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-30T10:50:10Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T10:50:12Z beach: I recommend waiting until that stuff is straightened out.
2017-01-30T10:50:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T10:51:26Z TMA: if you dare, you can select one of the N/A options -- the prices conform to the first page then
2017-01-30T10:53:35Z beach: Wow again.
2017-01-30T10:54:07Z beach: Well, I alerted Didier.  We'll see what happens.
2017-01-30T10:54:57Z beach: CRAP!  I haven't gotten anything done on my own paper yet today.
2017-01-30T11:00:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T11:02:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T11:04:12Z Einwq quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T11:04:39Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T11:05:45Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-30T11:12:16Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-30T11:12:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-30T11:13:44Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T11:16:48Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T11:16:51Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-30T11:23:19Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-30T11:25:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T11:26:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T11:28:07Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-30T11:29:50Z TMA: 150€ is still too much after travel and accomodation is taken into account :(
2017-01-30T11:34:04Z Einwq joined #lisp
2017-01-30T11:34:05Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T11:38:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T11:40:26Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T11:41:38Z lisp99: unless you live in the area/presenting your work, pretty harsh on students :p
2017-01-30T11:46:47Z xhe quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-30T11:50:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-30T11:51:54Z Einwq quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-30T11:52:06Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T11:52:30Z xhe joined #lisp
2017-01-30T11:55:34Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-30T11:56:11Z tarragon: ei
2017-01-30T11:56:31Z tarragon: pandoc author makes some points why he choose haskell for it
2017-01-30T11:56:36Z tarragon: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/pandoc-discuss/0rutNJAVKoc
2017-01-30T11:56:53Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-30T11:57:27Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-30T11:57:34Z tarragon: the second to last paragraph he explains something that's kinda similar to lisp live compile
2017-01-30T11:58:12Z tarragon: but first this --> "But the security provided by Haskell's type system has kept me sane when I have needed to make major changes or do large-scale refactoring."
2017-01-30T11:58:20Z tarragon: is this achievable with lisp?
2017-01-30T11:59:00Z jackdaniel: type enforcement?
2017-01-30T11:59:01Z White_Flame: to implement haskell's type system in Lisp?
2017-01-30T11:59:54Z tarragon: then the part similar to lisp is this --> "I can make one very central change (say,  adding attributes to headers in the basic Pandoc document model) and the compiler will direct me to everything else I need to change.  When the program compiles again, I can feel reasonably confident that I've modified all of the code that was affected.  Purity also helps preserve sanity. When a  writer defines a pure
2017-01-30T12:00:00Z tarragon: function from a Pandoc document to a String, I can be confident that changes to that function won't have side effects in other parts of the program."
2017-01-30T12:00:44Z tarragon: White_Flame: dunno, that why I am asking, if those features are exclusive to haskell or can lisp implement something similar
2017-01-30T12:00:56Z w37 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:01:08Z White_Flame: haskell has a type system that puts you on rails.  CL lets you be non-specific and deals with things at runtime
2017-01-30T12:01:25Z White_Flame: however, you can certainly build such a compile-time component on top of CL
2017-01-30T12:01:44Z White_Flame: but SBCL does give you compiler hints as to when types are known to be wrong.  It's not going to be exhaustive
2017-01-30T12:02:14Z White_Flame: but then again, this description of Haskell isn't any different than editing C or whatever and having the compiler blow up at you when you're not finished refactoring and missed something
2017-01-30T12:02:45Z White_Flame: its' hard to do live code migration in a system like that, because all changes have to be committed simultaneously
2017-01-30T12:02:54Z White_Flame: it can't have a valid Haskell system with only some changes and not all
2017-01-30T12:03:36Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T12:03:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:06:00Z shka: let's not forget about how long and complicated compilation errors can be
2017-01-30T12:06:19Z shka: i just find lisp to be… practical
2017-01-30T12:09:46Z phoe_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-30T12:12:04Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:13:45Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T12:14:12Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T12:14:18Z beach: phoe: Check SICL/Papers/...
2017-01-30T12:14:35Z beach: phoe: For instance, the paper about sequence functions.
2017-01-30T12:14:44Z beach: phoe: Type `make' and you should get a PDF.
2017-01-30T12:15:19Z beach: phoe: More importantly, you have the full infrastructure there: Makefile, some TeX macros you need, the ACM style file, etc.
2017-01-30T12:15:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:16:05Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-30T12:20:32Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:20:58Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:22:22Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T12:23:03Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:24:25Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:25:25Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T12:27:57Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T12:28:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:28:43Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:32:30Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-30T12:36:05Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:40:44Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-30T12:41:13Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:41:34Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:42:15Z holycow quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2017-01-30T12:48:43Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T12:52:51Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:53:43Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:54:24Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T12:54:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T12:58:59Z lisp99: White_Flame: not sure about haskell but ml modules have separate compilation guarantee so you only make changes local to your module and can test before making all changes
2017-01-30T12:59:09Z lisp99: White_Flame: it is nothing like C at all
2017-01-30T13:00:24Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:02:01Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T13:04:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T13:05:53Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:06:10Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T13:06:46Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:08:33Z djuber` joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:08:46Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-30T13:12:22Z Cymew quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T13:15:58Z djuber` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-30T13:16:16Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:17:44Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T13:18:02Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:20:34Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:20:40Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:21:46Z travv0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T13:23:12Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:23:54Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-30T13:25:12Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:28:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T13:29:41Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:30:22Z unbalanced joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:32:25Z frodef joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:33:29Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:35:25Z glamas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:39:13Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T13:39:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-30T13:41:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:47:03Z glamas quit (Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com)
2017-01-30T13:47:33Z ghard`` left #lisp
2017-01-30T13:48:05Z ghard joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:49:36Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:51:48Z Cymew joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:52:07Z Cymew quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T13:53:07Z phoe_: haha
2017-01-30T13:53:12Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T13:53:38Z phoe_: how do you call the process of integrating a part of Common Lisp documentation into the UltraSpec?
2017-01-30T13:53:46Z phoe_: inCLUSion
2017-01-30T13:53:53Z phoe_ drops mic, walks out
2017-01-30T13:54:00Z Cymew joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:54:15Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:54:32Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T13:56:47Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-30T13:57:26Z flip214: ta-tsching
2017-01-30T13:58:33Z flip214: the conCLUSion: exCLUSive CLUSters of inconCLUSive ocCLUSions.
2017-01-30T13:59:53Z rszeno joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:03:45Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T14:04:41Z Kaisyu quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-30T14:04:45Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T14:05:03Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:06:02Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:06:20Z yaroe joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:07:48Z yaroe: Hello there ! Is there a kind of 'Common Lisp' designer for an UML modeling tool ?
2017-01-30T14:09:15Z yaroe: A sort of 'Common Lisp designer' plug-in ...
2017-01-30T14:10:28Z dlowe: never heard of one
2017-01-30T14:10:50Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-30T14:11:44Z ioa1 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:12:09Z phoe_: yaroe: "vanilla" UML will have problems with Common Lisp because of its object system.
2017-01-30T14:12:19Z phoe_: In CL, methods don't belong to classes, they belong to generic functions.
2017-01-30T14:13:21Z cromachina_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T14:13:49Z lisp99 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-30T14:14:56Z yaroe: Yes I'm suspecting that UML is not well tuned for CL development
2017-01-30T14:15:57Z beach: phoe_: Did you see my hint about where to find my papers?
2017-01-30T14:16:01Z H4ns: even though one of the designers of UML was a clos afficinado, that does not reflect in the UML at all.  when the UML was created, CLOS was already mostly dead.
2017-01-30T14:16:07Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T14:16:15Z phoe_: beach: no. I disconnected in meantime.
2017-01-30T14:16:25Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:16:58Z phoe_: yaroe: well, what I'd begin with is specifying the protocol in text.
2017-01-30T14:17:05Z phoe_: Meaning, the generic functions.
2017-01-30T14:17:36Z phoe_: Then you can add method declarations.
2017-01-30T14:17:58Z yaroe: At work they are trying to blacklist Common Lisp from the authorized languages because of such argument
2017-01-30T14:18:17Z phoe_: yaroe: wtf
2017-01-30T14:18:25Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-30T14:18:47Z phoe_: "authorized languages"?
2017-01-30T14:19:23Z shka: UML is outdated anyway
2017-01-30T14:19:30Z shka: it has problems not just with CL
2017-01-30T14:20:07Z yaroe:  phoe_: languages that I'm allowed to use
2017-01-30T14:20:38Z shka: yaroe: i really like way that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-Oriented_Programming_in_Common_Lisp:_A_Programmer's_Guide_to_CLOS puts it
2017-01-30T14:20:47Z shka: it uses tables
2017-01-30T14:20:52Z shka: (a lot)
2017-01-30T14:21:17Z phoe_: oh yes, the OO book
2017-01-30T14:21:20Z phoe_: it has wonderful diagrams.
2017-01-30T14:21:27Z phoe_: yaroe: you might want to show them that one.
2017-01-30T14:21:33Z phoe_: thanks shka
2017-01-30T14:22:28Z dlowe: I'm impressed that your workplace has a default-allow policy
2017-01-30T14:22:29Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:22:49Z shka: phoe_: does it? :D
2017-01-30T14:22:55Z shka: i didn't notice any
2017-01-30T14:23:01Z shka: but i like tabular approach
2017-01-30T14:23:03Z phoe_: shka: hah, there are a few in the beginning
2017-01-30T14:23:24Z phoe_: where the multiple dispatch is defined
2017-01-30T14:23:39Z shka: ah, right
2017-01-30T14:23:56Z shka: anyway, I really like how they are using just tables
2017-01-30T14:24:00Z shka: plane, old tables
2017-01-30T14:24:32Z shka: in fact, it slightly changed how I want my documentation to be
2017-01-30T14:24:51Z shka: and regarding UML
2017-01-30T14:25:11Z shka: it is ok tool just to capture very high level architecture
2017-01-30T14:25:38Z shka: and in fact, it can be used with clos just fine to do that
2017-01-30T14:25:54Z shka: but it sucks if you have huge diagram that gets into details
2017-01-30T14:26:02Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:26:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T14:26:27Z shka: my personal rule of thumb is that if diagram has more than 10 elements on it, it is useless
2017-01-30T14:27:30Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:27:39Z shka: yaroe: anyway, this argument is stupid
2017-01-30T14:27:48Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:28:06Z shka: clos is a superset of traditional OO systems
2017-01-30T14:29:16Z shka: limiting yourself to use this superset because your huge diagrams (that are useless anyway) does not work is just pure stupid
2017-01-30T14:29:17Z H4ns: it is not a superset, is a different flavor.  and when it comes to "traditional", i would say that javascript can be called traditional nowadays, and it is quite different from class-centric object orientation as well.
2017-01-30T14:29:33Z yaroe: dlowe: It is a university lab that try to become more 'industrial' :(
2017-01-30T14:30:00Z ecraven: H4ns: but isn't almost everyone *using* JS as if it were class-centric?
2017-01-30T14:30:07Z unbalanced quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-30T14:30:15Z shka: H4ns: well, i would say that it is superset to a large extent
2017-01-30T14:30:34Z shka: you may program in cl as you would program in jav
2017-01-30T14:30:36Z shka: a
2017-01-30T14:30:42Z H4ns: ecraven: not sure what you mean by "everyone".  it is abused a lot, i give you that.
2017-01-30T14:30:42Z shka: it is stupid and pointless, but you can
2017-01-30T14:30:58Z H4ns: shka: you can't, because methods are not attached to classes in CLOS.
2017-01-30T14:31:15Z TMA: basic UML looks like a thin wrapper over Java capabilities (those available as of java 1.4)
2017-01-30T14:31:59Z ecraven: H4ns: if you only specialise on the first argument, don't you get the same thing?
2017-01-30T14:32:17Z shka: so what? how does that limit me to use convention that generic functions are acting as pure virtual methods?
2017-01-30T14:32:59Z shka: and are strictly defined for interface classes?
2017-01-30T14:33:25Z shka: i know that i'm limiting myself to small subset of clos, but that's my point
2017-01-30T14:33:36Z shka: you can use clos almost like java
2017-01-30T14:33:44Z shka: you can't use java like clos
2017-01-30T14:34:05Z teggi quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-30T14:34:05Z shka: so clos semantics are superset to java semantics
2017-01-30T14:34:10Z H4ns: ecraven: no, you then use a restricted version of clos, but java does something visibly different.
2017-01-30T14:34:20Z yaroe: shka: I agree. Sadly it is a kind of pretext to not evaluate what one gain using CL
2017-01-30T14:34:27Z ecraven: H4ns: but wouldn't it be semantically the same?
2017-01-30T14:34:43Z H4ns: but sure, if all you want to do is express that clos is better, java sucks and uml is stupid, then you're very right.
2017-01-30T14:35:15Z shka: H4ns: :D
2017-01-30T14:35:16Z H4ns: ecraven: it is only the same if you overlook the fact that the "primary" object still is your first function argument, not a syntactic language element.
2017-01-30T14:35:39Z ecraven: agreed, it depends on how much of a problem you see in that
2017-01-30T14:35:45Z ecraven: though you could write macros to fix that, I presume
2017-01-30T14:36:07Z shka: well, ok, this is implicit in java
2017-01-30T14:36:17Z shka: but i don't find this a fundamental difference
2017-01-30T14:36:55Z yaroe quit (Quit: bye.)
2017-01-30T14:39:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-30T14:40:36Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:44:12Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-30T14:44:22Z wdouglass joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:44:53Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-30T14:44:53Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-30T14:45:04Z wdouglass: Hi all! i have a packaging question. I'm using cffi to wrap a simple library written in C. this library contains some typedefs, which i can define in my package using the defctype macro.
2017-01-30T14:45:13Z wdouglass: how do i export those ctypes?
2017-01-30T14:45:19Z wdouglass: it seems like they'
2017-01-30T14:45:29Z wdouglass: re in a seperate namespace from regular symbols, or functions
2017-01-30T14:45:50Z varjag: don't think they are
2017-01-30T14:46:08Z wdouglass: so say i've got (defctype ms-buffer :pointer)
2017-01-30T14:46:16Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:46:21Z wdouglass: doing (export 'ms-buffer) after that doesn't seem to work
2017-01-30T14:46:26Z FreeBird_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-30T14:48:09Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T14:48:35Z varjag: well i export tons of cffi bindings and able to refer them
2017-01-30T14:48:57Z wdouglass: cffi functions seem to work...just not ctypes
2017-01-30T14:49:04Z shka: wdouglass: i really don't think that exporting ctypes is a good idea…
2017-01-30T14:49:32Z wdouglass: it's not for an externally visible interface. i'm just trying to keep all the type definitions to one file, and the actual user-visible interface to another.
2017-01-30T14:49:38Z shka: if you are wrapping library, you don't want to see any C stuff from outside
2017-01-30T14:49:45Z wdouglass: i understand that
2017-01-30T14:49:50Z shka: oh, right
2017-01-30T14:49:53Z dyelar joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:49:57Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:50:22Z wdouglass: maybe i should just put both files into the same package...and have one load the other?
2017-01-30T14:50:31Z shka: perhaps?
2017-01-30T14:50:41Z shka: it would be easy at the very least
2017-01-30T14:50:51Z wdouglass: (if you can't tell, i'm fairly new at common lisp...)
2017-01-30T14:50:58Z phoe_: https://goo.gl/zd6OLX <- Draft of a draft of my UltraSpec paper, if anyone would like to see it.
2017-01-30T14:51:01Z shka: i'm not cffi expert, but what i would do
2017-01-30T14:51:18Z shka: is to list all symbols in your package
2017-01-30T14:51:22Z varjag: wdouglass: https://github.com/varjagg/cl-pjsip/blob/0.4rc/package.lisp
2017-01-30T14:51:31Z varjag: plenty of ctypes exported there too
2017-01-30T14:51:49Z varjag: without special treatment
2017-01-30T14:51:50Z wdouglass: hmm, ok, maybe i have another issue.
2017-01-30T14:51:59Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T14:52:09Z wdouglass: i'm also trying to export the symbol name, not a string. maybe that's the difference?
2017-01-30T14:52:30Z varjag: i think EXPORT takes a symbol designator
2017-01-30T14:52:34Z varjag: so either should work
2017-01-30T14:52:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T14:52:45Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T14:52:50Z varjag: like #:my-exported-symbol or something
2017-01-30T14:53:41Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:55:08Z wdouglass: oh i figured it out. it was a typo, i spelled the name wrong. i feel silly.
2017-01-30T14:55:30Z varjag: happens to the best of us
2017-01-30T14:55:40Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T14:55:44Z wdouglass: thanks so much guys! sorry again.
2017-01-30T14:55:54Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T14:57:18Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-30T14:57:25Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:00:09Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T15:01:40Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T15:02:01Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T15:05:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T15:05:26Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:06:58Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:11:28Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:11:46Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:14:32Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-30T15:15:27Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:16:37Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:22:28Z bigos quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-30T15:25:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-30T15:26:16Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:27:00Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:27:39Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:28:45Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:33:19Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:35:01Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:38:08Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T15:39:37Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:39:49Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T15:41:01Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T15:41:06Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:41:11Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:43:34Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:43:56Z kattana joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:45:00Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:47:46Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-30T15:47:55Z test1600_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-30T15:49:25Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:49:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-30T15:50:02Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:51:07Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T15:55:10Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:01:45Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T16:02:56Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T16:03:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:05:16Z pjb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T16:09:29Z travv0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T16:12:16Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:12:28Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T16:12:35Z wdouglass: i'm having a heck of a time with the CFFI documentation. Is there better documentation then the official manual available somewhere? can anybody point me to some documentation about what the :simple-parser and :actual-type options of define-foreign-type actually do? thanks.
2017-01-30T16:13:10Z BusFactor1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T16:13:27Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:14:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:15:28Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:17:05Z vicfred quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-30T16:18:19Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:21:09Z xhe quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-30T16:22:48Z Whitesquall joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:23:00Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-30T16:23:42Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-30T16:25:56Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-30T16:26:28Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:26:52Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:31:33Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T16:33:10Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:34:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T16:38:14Z hhdave quit (Quit: hhdave)
2017-01-30T16:38:16Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:38:37Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:38:53Z parjanya joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:39:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:41:40Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T16:42:39Z travv0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T16:43:41Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:43:54Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T16:44:55Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:45:02Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:45:45Z redeemed quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T16:47:15Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-30T16:47:29Z parjanya left #lisp
2017-01-30T16:49:42Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T16:51:31Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T16:52:56Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-30T16:54:15Z beach: wdouglass: I highly recommend that you program in Common Lisp instead.
2017-01-30T16:57:04Z beach is grumpy because he has not made any progress on his article today.
2017-01-30T16:57:18Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-30T16:57:44Z Xach: beach: care for another distraction? i have a clim issue that perplexes me
2017-01-30T16:57:55Z Xach: it has to do with building, not using
2017-01-30T16:58:20Z beach: Go ahead.  But actually, jackdaniel will be much more qualified for that.
2017-01-30T16:58:42Z Xach: http://report.quicklisp.org/2017-01-28/failure-report/mcclim.html#clim
2017-01-30T16:58:49Z Xach: that is a very long log of compilation failure
2017-01-30T16:58:57Z beach: Besides, he owes me one. :)
2017-01-30T16:59:17Z Xach: it occurs only when i build mcclim in an environment where each project starts with its own fresh fasls. i can't reproduce it under "normal" circumstances, so maybe it's not important.
2017-01-30T16:59:36Z Xach: but the ultimate result is an error about a missing "SILICA" package
2017-01-30T16:59:46Z beach: Ah, yes, I know that one.
2017-01-30T17:00:16Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:00:23Z beach: Some software tries to make it possible to build with things other than McCLIM.
2017-01-30T17:00:52Z beach: And in that case, the silica package is needed.  But we don't have a silica package.
2017-01-30T17:01:22Z Xach: Hmm. Ok. I wonder why I only see it in the "fresh fasl" situation.
2017-01-30T17:01:54Z beach: There is a reader conditional that checks whether mcclim has been built already.
2017-01-30T17:02:02Z phoe_: Xach: perhaps grep all suspicious sources for SILICA?
2017-01-30T17:02:04Z beach: Only if it isn't is the silica package needed.
2017-01-30T17:02:20Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T17:02:23Z Xach: beach: interesting!
2017-01-30T17:02:29Z beach: phoe_: Definitely, but that is not Xach's job.
2017-01-30T17:02:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:02:57Z Xach: beach: I would like to start testing software with the "fresh fasl" system, but mcclim's failure has given me pause.
2017-01-30T17:03:04Z beach: Xach: I will ask jackdaniel to look into it.
2017-01-30T17:03:04Z phoe_: I see.
2017-01-30T17:03:05Z Xach: My theory is that fresh fasls will help unmask real problems
2017-01-30T17:04:04Z beach: Xach: We are all working on ELS submissions, so jackdaniel might be busy for another couple of days.
2017-01-30T17:04:20Z Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337616 <-- mcclim is no longer the slowest to build, when fresh fasls are considered
2017-01-30T17:04:39Z beach: I think I saw that one the other day.
2017-01-30T17:04:44Z phoe_: ("quicklisp-slime-helper" . -1)
2017-01-30T17:04:46Z phoe_: Xach: haha
2017-01-30T17:04:52Z jackdaniel: hey
2017-01-30T17:05:04Z Xach: phoe_: i don't know what's up with that
2017-01-30T17:05:48Z phoe_: I don't know either, but it seems to build in minus one seconds
2017-01-30T17:05:54Z phoe_: you know how to do your marketing properly, Xach
2017-01-30T17:05:57Z jackdaniel: I'll look into it in a few minutes
2017-01-30T17:06:17Z phoe_: "Quicklisp SLIME Helper® - compiles faster than anything else on my machine"
2017-01-30T17:06:19Z Xach: phoe_: maybe i should build it 1000 times to speed up everything
2017-01-30T17:06:21Z phoe_ coughs
2017-01-30T17:06:27Z phoe_: Xach: sounds good!
2017-01-30T17:08:08Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T17:11:39Z TDT_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:11:52Z TDT quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-30T17:11:52Z TDT_ is now known as TDT
2017-01-30T17:12:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-30T17:14:04Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:14:41Z phoe_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-30T17:15:15Z quadresce` joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:20:00Z Fare: beach: are you working with jackdaniel on mcclim?
2017-01-30T17:20:22Z beach: Fare: That's one way of putting it.
2017-01-30T17:20:44Z beach: I paid him for a while to work on it.
2017-01-30T17:21:58Z Fare: Xach: the error is here: ; caught WARNING: Derived type of :ABORT and T in (ACCEPTING-VALUES (STREAM :OWN-WINDOW OWN-WINDOW :LABEL PROMPT) (MAPCAR (FUNCTION (LAMBDA (DESCRIPTION) (DESTRUCTURING-BIND (TYPE &REST OPTIONS) DESCRIPTION (PROG1 (APPLY (FUNCTION ACCEPT) TYPE :STREAM STREAM :QUERY-IDENTIFIER (GETF OPTIONS :QUERY-IDENTIFIER (CAR DESCRIPTION)) OPTIONS) (TERPRI STREAM))))) DESCRIPTIONS)) is (VALUES (MEMBER T :ABORT) &OPTIONAL),
2017-01-30T17:21:58Z Fare: conflicting with their asserted type LIST.
2017-01-30T17:22:46Z Xach: Fare: What is the context?
2017-01-30T17:23:04Z Fare: http://report.quicklisp.org/2017-01-28/failure-report/mcclim.html#clim
2017-01-30T17:23:23Z Fare: wdouglass, git grep is your friend to find instances of these things being used
2017-01-30T17:24:09Z ksool joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:24:09Z ksool quit (Changing host)
2017-01-30T17:24:09Z ksool joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:24:14Z Fare: wdouglass, I also have QLS=$HOME/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/ ; qgrep () { ( cd $QLS ; grep -ri $@ * | grep -v /asdf.lisp: ) }
2017-01-30T17:24:21Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T17:24:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:24:43Z Xach: Fare: That is a "normal" error. There is a special error that happens only in the fresh fasl case.
2017-01-30T17:25:05Z Xach: normal errors are in today's report, http://report.quicklisp.org/2017-01-30/failure-report/mcclim.html
2017-01-30T17:25:12Z fe[nl]ix: Fare: I think it's time to remove the live-upgrade code from ASDF
2017-01-30T17:25:12Z Xach: they have been errors for a long, long time.
2017-01-30T17:25:29Z Fare: fe[nl]ix, it's already been much reduced since the ASDF 2 days.
2017-01-30T17:25:39Z Fare: no way to remove it, though
2017-01-30T17:25:46Z fe[nl]ix: why ?
2017-01-30T17:25:47Z Fare: but it's much simplified.
2017-01-30T17:25:58Z Fare: because ASDF *does* self-upgrade, every single time.
2017-01-30T17:26:18Z Fare: it's just that this self-upgrade is much more streamlined than it used to be
2017-01-30T17:26:25Z Fare: no more uninterning stuff
2017-01-30T17:26:36Z fe[nl]ix: why does it have to ?
2017-01-30T17:26:51Z Fare: consider uiop:define-package, for instance
2017-01-30T17:27:24Z Fare: a plain defpackage will cause an error if some new symbol is exported, or an old symbol is not exported anymore, or the imports cause clashes, or something have moved
2017-01-30T17:27:44Z Fare: no way you can remove uiop:define-package -- it makes things *just work*.
2017-01-30T17:28:01Z Fare: that's how you want your package definition? That's how you'll have it.
2017-01-30T17:28:14Z quadresce` quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-30T17:28:42Z codemac joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:28:59Z Fare: other self-upgrade feature: declare all function notinline -- except the deprecated ones that are declared inline so the compiler-macro can issue a style-warning / warning / error when you use it.
2017-01-30T17:29:26Z Fare: if the functions weren't notinline, you couldn't reliably upgrade them.
2017-01-30T17:29:35Z Fare: but they are, so you can.
2017-01-30T17:30:28Z Fare: other feature? fmakunbound a function before you change its signature. That's mandatory for gf's where the signature changes. Done.
2017-01-30T17:30:52Z tumdum joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:30:52Z tumdum quit (Changing host)
2017-01-30T17:30:52Z tumdum joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:31:18Z Fare: some defmethod's to make sure data structures from before class redefinition remain valid? done.
2017-01-30T17:31:43Z Fare: a special trampoline so asdf:operate can restart itself after upgrade? check.
2017-01-30T17:32:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T17:32:42Z Fare: a very few methods on update-instance-for-class-redefinition ? Much fewer than back in the day -- instead we tend to punt and drop bobby tables when there's been an incompatible schema upgrade.
2017-01-30T17:33:03Z fe[nl]ix: all of that is unnecessary
2017-01-30T17:33:34Z Fare: because fixing the tables for asdf itself is not enough -- arbitrary asdf extensions may have been invalidated, and asdf can't fix them. They have to be reloaded.
2017-01-30T17:33:40Z Fare: how is it unnecessary???
2017-01-30T17:34:37Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:34:55Z fe[nl]ix: I always load ASDF at a version that I decide and never load the one bundled with the host Lisp
2017-01-30T17:34:57Z Fare: Rationale is in here: http://fare.livejournal.com/149264.html or in my ILC 2010 article: https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/ilc2010draft.pdf
2017-01-30T17:35:08Z Fare: fe[nl]ix, so, not needed for YOU
2017-01-30T17:35:09Z fe[nl]ix: so effectively, ASDF never upgrades itself
2017-01-30T17:35:20Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:35:21Z Fare: I always (require "asdf") then let ASDF upgrade itself if needed.
2017-01-30T17:35:23Z wdouglass: Fare, beach: thanks for the replies. I haven't used git grep before, it's pretty neat. I'm writing a wrapper for a (non-trivial) legacy library, so i'd rather not re-implement it in a bug-compatible way...
2017-01-30T17:36:01Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:37:01Z fe[nl]ix: Fare: and you could have spared yourself the trouble of doing that and just tell people to avoid bundled ASDF versions
2017-01-30T17:37:15Z Fare: the recommended way for lusers to use asdf is to just let it upgrade itself. Detailed instructions on how to avoid self-upgrade that cover 100% of cases yet are understandable by lusers... would be more work.
2017-01-30T17:38:11Z Fare: in the bad old days, you could never rely on an asdf bug fix, because you'd never know which version users would use.
2017-01-30T17:39:00Z fe[nl]ix: you still can't because not all users upgrade their hosts or use an external ASDF
2017-01-30T17:39:06Z Fare: fe[nl]ix, btw, what do you think of adding a .asd file to libfixposix, so it can be statically linked into sbcl with cffi-toolchain?
2017-01-30T17:39:33Z fe[nl]ix: the right way to deal here would have been a mechanism to specify a minimum required ASDF version in .asd files
2017-01-30T17:39:40Z fe[nl]ix: instead of the #. hack I use now
2017-01-30T17:39:41Z Fare: fe[nl]ix, that's OK because implementations now do upgrade their ASDF. They used not to bother since no one relied on bug fixes.
2017-01-30T17:40:51Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T17:40:53Z Fare: what's wrong with (upgrade-asdf) (unless (version-satisfies "asdf" "3.1.5") (error "asdf 3.1.5 needed")) ?
2017-01-30T17:42:41Z fe[nl]ix: 1) it upgrades without the user's knowledge and permission. I won't do that
2017-01-30T17:43:53Z fe[nl]ix: 2) it's not statically analyzable, and therefore given a set of libraries I can't determine the minimum required ASDF version without loading the thing
2017-01-30T17:43:54Z skaria- joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:44:43Z Fare: 1) asdf already does it. It has user permission by (a) being asdf (b0 having been configured to by the user.
2017-01-30T17:44:51Z skaria- quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T17:45:28Z Fare: 2) it is as statically analyzable as anything asdf. This thing runs arbitrary code while loading system definitions, for gossake!
2017-01-30T17:45:43Z Fare: that's even touted as a feature "asdf is extensible!"
2017-01-30T17:46:11Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T17:46:29Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:47:30Z Fare: and it was a pain making it *correct* in asdf 3.3 (which isn't released BTW; Robert is not available to test & review more code ATM)
2017-01-30T17:49:01Z codemac quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-30T17:49:11Z Fare: which makes ASDF 3.3 more correct than most build systems, BTW.
2017-01-30T17:50:08Z Fare: Trying to make dependency tracking of generated build rules correct with Make? Good luck!
2017-01-30T17:51:21Z Fare: that said, if you want bazel... yes, it supports Lisp! (well, SBCL, on Linux and Mac)
2017-01-30T17:54:49Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:55:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T17:56:25Z ksool quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
2017-01-30T17:56:36Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T17:58:09Z Zayk joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:00:20Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T18:02:38Z quadresce` joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:05:12Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T18:06:30Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:07:07Z |3b|: Xach: looks like mcclim sets the :mcclim feature in mcclim.asd, but some of the components don't depend on anything that would cause it to be loaded, so fail if nothing else loaded it
2017-01-30T18:07:09Z Zayk quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-30T18:09:14Z Xach: |3b|: interesting
2017-01-30T18:09:25Z Xach: |3b|: i hope jackdaniel or beach can make use of that analysis
2017-01-30T18:10:18Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:10:52Z |3b|: which actually might be a reasonable failure, if it depends on having clim but doesn't care which. not sure asdf can express that usefully
2017-01-30T18:12:42Z tumdum quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T18:12:42Z |3b|: though i guess maybe it could depend on mcclim conditionally depending on :clim feature
2017-01-30T18:13:21Z mejja joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:13:44Z |3b|: or if it can't or doesn't want to, at least add a check and fail faster with a better error message :)
2017-01-30T18:17:11Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T18:17:29Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:17:45Z sbodin joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:17:45Z ioa1 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T18:20:21Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T18:20:45Z Fare: |3b| I'm not sure what kind of "dependency" that is.
2017-01-30T18:21:10Z Fare: but the usual answer is: have separate systems for foo, bar and foo+bar
2017-01-30T18:21:54Z codemac joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:22:15Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:23:51Z Fare: and yes, fail better, faster, stronger
2017-01-30T18:25:12Z |3b|: the sort of dependency handled by 'virtual packages' in debian/apt... i need something that does X but i don't care which something
2017-01-30T18:25:42Z quadresce` quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-30T18:26:35Z bigos joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:26:44Z |3b|: (and then packages say "i can do X", and installer has to pick one and doesn't let you install others, possibly with user input to decide which)
2017-01-30T18:27:05Z Sauvin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T18:27:19Z phoe: |3b|: that's the responsibility of *features*, in a way
2017-01-30T18:27:21Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-30T18:27:24Z bigos quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-30T18:27:30Z phoe: a package can add :clim to *features*
2017-01-30T18:27:31Z |3b| isn't sure that is enough of a problem in CL yet for ASDF to care or not... lots of duplication, but not much duplication with the same API
2017-01-30T18:27:34Z phoe: ...
2017-01-30T18:27:47Z phoe: ...but I can't think of an easy way to find which package put the :clim in the *features*
2017-01-30T18:28:13Z |3b|: yeah, problem is convincing some package to do that :)
2017-01-30T18:28:25Z phoe: |3b|: well, uh
2017-01-30T18:28:35Z phoe: do what
2017-01-30T18:28:40Z TCZ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:28:44Z phoe: the first part or the second?
2017-01-30T18:28:48Z |3b|: put :clim in features
2017-01-30T18:29:02Z phoe: Doesn't McCLIM push :clim into features?
2017-01-30T18:29:08Z |3b|: rather, put :mcclim in features or create a package named silica
2017-01-30T18:29:26Z |3b|: sure, but the code works on other clim implementations
2017-01-30T18:29:32Z phoe: Again, why would it want to create a package named silica?
2017-01-30T18:29:33Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:29:43Z phoe: And why can't it push :clim alongside :mcclim?
2017-01-30T18:30:17Z Fare: In general I recommend against using features
2017-01-30T18:30:18Z |3b|: lets start over, the problem is something like #+mcclim (mcclim:foo) #-mcclim (silica:foo)
2017-01-30T18:30:25Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T18:30:26Z Fare: just declare proper dependencies.
2017-01-30T18:30:40Z |3b|: if mcclim is loaded, it uses mcclim. if not, it tries to use some other clim
2017-01-30T18:30:47Z Fare: the only features should be those declared by the implementation and/or detected by trivial-features
2017-01-30T18:31:11Z phoe: |3b|: is that a piece of code from McCLIM or from some application?
2017-01-30T18:31:41Z phoe: if the latter, why does that application not depend on package SILICA?
2017-01-30T18:31:42Z |3b|: sort of both? it is a library provided with mcclim, but intended to be useable without it
2017-01-30T18:32:09Z |3b|: it isn't needed if mcclim is loaded though
2017-01-30T18:32:10Z Fare: does it actually work with franz's CLIM ?
2017-01-30T18:32:23Z Fare: or Genera's ?
2017-01-30T18:32:29Z |3b|: (and might not even be loadable from asdf, might need to REQUIRE it or something)
2017-01-30T18:32:40Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:33:01Z |3b| doesn't actually know much about mcclim or esa, just looked at it for a few minutes since i was bored :)
2017-01-30T18:33:29Z phoe: |3b|: why doesn't it make a load-time check then?
2017-01-30T18:33:38Z phoe: like, uh
2017-01-30T18:33:44Z Fare: I still recommend avoiding #+ in this case -- either get rid of fake portability, or use interface-passing style to provide run-time portability rather than compile-time.
2017-01-30T18:33:48Z phoe: it depends on either :MCCLIM or :SILICA
2017-01-30T18:33:49Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-30T18:34:28Z |3b|: Fare: yeah, depending on *features* for that is messy, the "working" version without clean fasl cache probably wouldn't actually work without mcclim loaded even though it compiled
2017-01-30T18:34:34Z phoe: yes, I'd actually want a runtime dependency rather than a compile-time one
2017-01-30T18:35:11Z |3b|: phoe: right, which is why i wasn't sure what the solution is
2017-01-30T18:35:18Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:35:26Z phoe: fix the application so it doesn't make compile-time checks
2017-01-30T18:35:31Z phoe: that's what I'd say
2017-01-30T18:35:56Z |3b|: yeah, question is whether it is more important to fix that than do other things :)
2017-01-30T18:36:07Z mejja quit (Quit: \ No newline at end of file)
2017-01-30T18:36:07Z phoe: tell me how to fix it and I might try tonight
2017-01-30T18:36:19Z |3b| suspects it isn't enough of a problem in practice to do more than just a quick error if no clim loaded
2017-01-30T18:36:29Z Fare: and use a defparameter for the "current" backend.
2017-01-30T18:36:32Z phoe: ^
2017-01-30T18:36:35Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T18:36:45Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:37:57Z phoe: That's the sort of behaviour I'd expect it to have.
2017-01-30T18:38:06Z phoe: |3b|: what is the piece of code to fix then?
2017-01-30T18:39:30Z |3b|: phoe: all of the places it complains about "Package SILICA does not exist" in http://report.quicklisp.org/2017-01-28/failure-report/mcclim.html
2017-01-30T18:39:47Z |3b|: and all of the places that it would have complained if it didn't stop at the other ones first :)
2017-01-30T18:39:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T18:39:56Z |3b| has no idea how many places that is
2017-01-30T18:40:06Z Fare: who uses mcclim these days? What apps use it?
2017-01-30T18:41:10Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T18:41:24Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:41:36Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T18:42:53Z nullx002- joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:44:57Z phoe: beach, jackdaniel: you got a customerrrrr~
2017-01-30T18:46:25Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:46:46Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:48:49Z phoe afk
2017-01-30T18:49:00Z phoe: |3b|: I'll try to look into it
2017-01-30T18:49:09Z nrp3c quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-30T18:51:32Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T18:51:50Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:52:17Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T18:52:45Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:53:06Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T18:53:12Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T18:55:05Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:57:11Z Denommus joined #lisp
2017-01-30T18:57:56Z beach: Fare: Why do you ask?  I use it in a few applications, including Climacs, Second Climacs, Gsharp, Compta, TransClime.  And my favorite co-author uses it in at least two research applications in the domain of rewrite systems.
2017-01-30T18:58:38Z beach: Fare: Oh, and I have a TeX font browser that uses McCLIM.
2017-01-30T18:58:40Z nowhereman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T18:58:57Z Guest3011 quit (Quit: I'm terminated!)
2017-01-30T18:59:06Z beach: I wrote it so that I could generate fonts for Gsharp.
2017-01-30T18:59:08Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:00:44Z beach: Fare: Other applications that use it: Clouseau (the inspector), the CLIM listener.
2017-01-30T19:01:17Z beach: Fare: Other people use it much more than I do, but I haven't looked at the full set of applications.
2017-01-30T19:01:23Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:02:12Z beach: Fare: https://common-lisp.net/project/mcclim/excite.html
2017-01-30T19:02:58Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-30T19:04:47Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:05:30Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-30T19:05:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-30T19:05:57Z beach: Fare: Does that answer your question?
2017-01-30T19:06:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:07:50Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-30T19:08:59Z beach: I forgot, the CLIM debugger also uses McCLIM.
2017-01-30T19:09:25Z beach: That one and Clouseau are more like programming tools than end-user applications of course.
2017-01-30T19:13:14Z PuercoPop: shka: The documentation of maxpc is generated with https://github.com/inters/geneva
2017-01-30T19:13:20Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-30T19:15:20Z jackdaniel: Fare: I recommend finding mcclim-desktop repository on github
2017-01-30T19:15:28Z jackdaniel: it has quite a few pointers to other packages
2017-01-30T19:15:42Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:15:49Z jackdaniel: regarding silica / mcclim dillema, I'm not sure if it can be handled at runtime, since silica is a package and reader would protest, if its not created
2017-01-30T19:16:13Z quadresce quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-30T19:17:07Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:17:39Z jackdaniel: either way I think that all packages shipped *with* mcclim should have direct dependency on mcclim system (even if most of them would work on other clim implementations)
2017-01-30T19:18:23Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T19:18:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:19:10Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:21:50Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:23:50Z jackdaniel: (until ASDF finds a way to represent virtual systems providing same functionality)
2017-01-30T19:27:42Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T19:29:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:29:16Z beach: jackdaniel: I think the assumption was that some of these systems will be built with some other CLIM implementation than McCLIM.  I am convinced that this will not happen, so it is fairly safe to remove this read-time conditional and, with it, the reference to the SILICA package.
2017-01-30T19:29:31Z jackdaniel: yes, I agree
2017-01-30T19:29:40Z jackdaniel: it is something for third party libraries to take care for
2017-01-30T19:29:47Z jackdaniel: I'll leave the silica version commented though
2017-01-30T19:29:54Z jackdaniel: for the future porters sake
2017-01-30T19:30:32Z beach: Oh, so you just make sure it is never "activated"?
2017-01-30T19:30:38Z beach: That's a good compromise.
2017-01-30T19:31:56Z nowhereman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T19:32:20Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:34:14Z Whitesquall quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-30T19:35:36Z Fare: beach: instead of (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op ...) you can use (asdf:load-system ...)
2017-01-30T19:35:48Z dlowe: progress!
2017-01-30T19:35:54Z PuercoPop: jackdaniel: the VCS is there for future porters sake. Just remove everything in one commit
2017-01-30T19:36:39Z shka: PuercoPop: thanks!
2017-01-30T19:37:36Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:38:24Z Fare: what do you guys think of masamune?
2017-01-30T19:38:42Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T19:38:48Z Fare: I doubt ASDF will ever have a notion of virtual systems.
2017-01-30T19:39:08Z Fare: it's too low-level for that.
2017-01-30T19:39:10Z shka: https://github.com/gabriel-laddel/masamune
2017-01-30T19:39:20Z shka: readme.org does not help ;-)
2017-01-30T19:40:21Z wildlander joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:40:30Z Fare: jackdaniel: you'd define a common interface that has its own package; only the implementation would use silica.
2017-01-30T19:40:35Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:41:04Z PuercoPop: Fare: it is not documented well enough. But that answers how uses McCLIM nowadays as well :D
2017-01-30T19:41:49Z jackdaniel: how do I switch the implementation then? without altering the system definition – from the client package?
2017-01-30T19:42:04Z jackdaniel: :depends-on (#:common-graph-interface)
2017-01-30T19:42:10Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T19:42:18Z jackdaniel: (switch 'common-graph-implementation 'foo); ?
2017-01-30T19:42:20Z fiddlerwoaroof: Does anyone know what define-setf-method is?
2017-01-30T19:42:21Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T19:42:39Z fiddlerwoaroof: It's not in CLHS, but an old codebase I have uses it
2017-01-30T19:42:41Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-30T19:42:46Z shka: PuercoPop: do you happen to know if it is possible to add support for another markup inside geneva?
2017-01-30T19:43:09Z _rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:43:34Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:43:50Z fiddlerwoaroof: Also, cmucl's homepage seems to be down
2017-01-30T19:43:59Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-30T19:44:24Z ksool joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:45:10Z ksool quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T19:45:38Z fiddlerwoaroof: Ah, old release notes indicate define-setf-method was renamed to define-setf-expander from cltl1->clhs
2017-01-30T19:45:50Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-30T19:46:05Z PuercoPop: shka: no I haven't looked into it. I remembered because the author mentioned geneva in a blog post. It is possible in common-doc
2017-01-30T19:47:38Z shka: i kinda like both pdf and html output
2017-01-30T19:47:41Z shka: codex can't do that
2017-01-30T19:47:52Z ksool joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:47:52Z shka: oh well
2017-01-30T19:48:45Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T19:50:36Z erethon joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:50:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T19:50:52Z PuercoPop: shka: Geneva's readme says there is an API to configure the input so it apparently can
2017-01-30T19:51:04Z shka: hmmm
2017-01-30T19:51:05Z qwxlea joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:51:06Z shka: nice
2017-01-30T19:51:14Z shka: PuercoPop: thanks, you are very helpful
2017-01-30T19:51:20Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-30T19:52:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:53:14Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-30T19:53:32Z sbodin_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T19:53:37Z _rumbler31: I"m running into a case where bt:join-thread seems to hang in spite of thread-alive-p returning nil
2017-01-30T19:57:56Z jackdaniel: Xach: would it be a problem for you to try it from develop branch?
2017-01-30T19:58:02Z jackdaniel: (McCLIM that is)
2017-01-30T19:58:12Z Xach: jackdaniel: not at all
2017-01-30T19:58:15Z shka: _rumbler31: perhaps some code?
2017-01-30T19:58:29Z jackdaniel: OK, I have just pushed there
2017-01-30T20:02:14Z sbodin left #lisp
2017-01-30T20:02:27Z Xach: jackdaniel: named "develop"?
2017-01-30T20:02:34Z jackdaniel: yes
2017-01-30T20:03:41Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T20:03:43Z _rumbler31: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337801
2017-01-30T20:03:59Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:04:21Z _rumbler31: so in my application, I use a lock to change a state that a thread checks for in its inner loop to determine when to break out.
2017-01-30T20:04:44Z _rumbler31: I have a few of these threads, and in the thread responsible for closing them all down, I issue a series of bt:join-threads on them all
2017-01-30T20:05:14Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:05:15Z _rumbler31: after I invoke the call to change the state to shutdown, of course
2017-01-30T20:05:24Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-30T20:06:16Z _rumbler31: when i call bt:join-thread on these threads, the calls hang if they have already terminated, it seems
2017-01-30T20:06:31Z _rumbler31: otherwise there is a third state of the thread that I'm no aware of
2017-01-30T20:09:27Z lispolos joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:09:45Z lispolos left #lisp
2017-01-30T20:10:24Z _rumbler31: or, is a thread not allowed to invoke bt:join-thread on a thread it didn't start?
2017-01-30T20:13:54Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-30T20:13:54Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-30T20:15:34Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:16:00Z Fare left #lisp
2017-01-30T20:16:29Z Fare joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:17:09Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-30T20:17:30Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:19:03Z nowhereman quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T20:20:22Z _rumbler31: http://paste.lisp.org/display/337801#1
2017-01-30T20:20:35Z _rumbler31: snippet from the repl that demonstrates the problem
2017-01-30T20:20:58Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:22:51Z _rumbler31: oddly enough, if I wait for the thread to enter reset state, the first call to join-thread returns and the second hangs.  but in code where I use these forms, I'm only calling join-thread once on each thread
2017-01-30T20:23:53Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-30T20:25:29Z My_Hearing joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:25:36Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T20:26:29Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-30T20:27:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:27:22Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T20:29:17Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:31:00Z codemac quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-30T20:37:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-30T20:38:11Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:39:43Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:41:28Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T20:42:05Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T20:42:25Z wdouglass quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T20:47:42Z Devon joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:48:59Z k4rtik quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-30T20:49:37Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T20:49:56Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:51:26Z maxmaeteling joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:51:36Z maxmaeteling left #lisp
2017-01-30T20:51:57Z maxmaeteling joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:52:11Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T20:58:43Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T20:59:06Z oleo is now known as Guest36150
2017-01-30T20:59:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T21:00:09Z Guest36150 quit (Changing host)
2017-01-30T21:00:09Z Guest36150 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:00:47Z Guest36150 is now known as oleo
2017-01-30T21:01:04Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:01:36Z jasom: _rumbler31: BT is underspecified in many places; I wouldn't be too surprised if that worked on sbcl, for example.
2017-01-30T21:02:04Z jasom: though this sounds like a bug
2017-01-30T21:02:12Z jasom: "Wait until THREAD terminates. If THREAD has already terminated, return immediately. "
2017-01-30T21:03:52Z k4rtik joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:04:18Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-30T21:06:52Z emerson quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T21:07:56Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:10:16Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-30T21:11:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:12:25Z zygentoma joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:12:46Z yaewa quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-30T21:13:03Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:15:03Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:18:48Z pjb: jasom: the bug is in this docstring.  cf pthread_join(3).
2017-01-30T21:23:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-30T21:24:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:29:15Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-30T21:32:08Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:35:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-30T21:35:56Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:37:06Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-30T21:38:01Z honeymead joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:38:15Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:40:53Z mateuszb_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:41:05Z mateuszb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T21:42:16Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T21:42:23Z angavrilov_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:43:24Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T21:43:37Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:46:06Z maxmaete` joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:47:19Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T21:47:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:48:24Z Benjx joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:48:40Z angavrilov_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T21:49:18Z angavrilov_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:49:46Z maxmaeteling quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-30T21:52:14Z angavrilov_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T21:52:38Z angavrilov_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:54:50Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-30T21:55:01Z honeymead quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-30T21:55:28Z ioa joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:56:11Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:56:43Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T21:56:54Z Devon quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T21:57:14Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:58:11Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T21:59:49Z jasom: pjb: nothing says that bt:join-thread need result in exactly a call to pthread_join
2017-01-30T22:00:00Z parjanya joined #lisp
2017-01-30T22:02:52Z phoe: jasom: I could prepare a trivial test case to be run
2017-01-30T22:02:59Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-30T22:03:42Z phoe: thread A spawns thread B and thread C, then thread B waits for C to join
2017-01-30T22:05:20Z pjb: jasom: However, I'd expect some implementation to provide a rather thin layer over pthread.
2017-01-30T22:07:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T22:08:44Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T22:12:15Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-30T22:13:45Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T22:17:06Z phoe: Is it an error to call pthread_join(C) from thread B?
2017-01-30T22:17:08Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T22:17:09Z phoe: I mean, in the C world.
2017-01-30T22:19:01Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-30T22:20:11Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T22:20:30Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T22:20:36Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-30T22:20:45Z _rumbler31: it doesn't seem like it matters who calls pthread_join
2017-01-30T22:21:11Z _rumbler31: except that it must be done, unless the thread in question calls pthread_detach, at least according to the man pags
2017-01-30T22:21:54Z pjb: _rumbler31: basically, thread can exit returning a status, and pthread_join lets you retrieve this status. It's the parallel to fork and wait.
2017-01-30T22:22:08Z _rumbler31: pages.  what I suspect is happening is that the threading model in ccl is expecting that if a user calls join on a thread, then the user code is given priority to capture the return value, otherwise it must be done some other way by the runtime
2017-01-30T22:23:47Z _rumbler31: yes, so it seems like any thread can retrieve this status, but it is undefined if more than one of these join calls have been invoked on the same thread, and further that it is expected that once the join was called, that the "resources" for the joined thread are removed, s.t. subsequent calls to join on the thread are unspecified
2017-01-30T22:24:21Z _rumbler31: i intent to investigate my theory about ccl
2017-01-30T22:26:08Z _rumbler31: also.. I have a closure stored in a global.  when I invoke (mapcar (lambda (closure) (funcall closure 'stop)) '(*global1*...))
2017-01-30T22:26:39Z _rumbler31: funcall complains that *global1* is an undefined function
2017-01-30T22:27:22Z _rumbler31: wherease with (list *global1*...) it works fine.  I assumed that *global1* was "the same as" a function stored on the symbol *global1* that happened to be a closure instead
2017-01-30T22:27:37Z phoe: _rumbler31: no no no
2017-01-30T22:27:50Z schjetne joined #lisp
2017-01-30T22:27:53Z phoe: you're mistaking (quote (list *global1* ...)) with (list *global1* ...)
2017-01-30T22:27:56Z _rumbler31: i've made a false assumption it seems.  so what am I failing to understand ;-)
2017-01-30T22:28:18Z phoe: in the first case, you are passing the symbol *global1* to mapcar
2017-01-30T22:28:23Z Bike: *global1* is a symbol. '*global1* evaluates to a symbol, since it's quoted. *global1* evaluates to a closure.
2017-01-30T22:28:27Z phoe: in the second case, you are passing the value of the symbol *global1* to mapcar
2017-01-30T22:28:34Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-30T22:28:35Z phoe: just what Bike said
2017-01-30T22:29:09Z fe[nl]ix: _rumbler31: yes, you can only call join once
2017-01-30T22:30:12Z Denommus quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-30T22:30:33Z phoe: CLHS question, everybody.
2017-01-30T22:30:43Z phoe: I'm working on chapter Files right now and one of the examples contains code like
2017-01-30T22:30:46Z phoe: clhs truename
2017-01-30T22:30:47Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_tn.htm
2017-01-30T22:30:56Z _rumbler31: fe[nl]ix:  I know my code is only calling join once, so I assume that ccl is doing it for me in some cases.  I wrote my handling code assuming that join-thread would know if one of my threads had been stopped long before the call.  this seems to be wrong, and since I have only one place in the code where I call join I assume it is being done to reclaim the thread "storage" since the runtime can tell that my us
2017-01-30T22:30:56Z _rumbler31: er code does not yet care
2017-01-30T22:31:05Z phoe: Pathnames like #P"S:>vistor>test.text.newest", #P"S:>vistor>test.text.1"
2017-01-30T22:31:10Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T22:31:19Z Xach: phoe: yes
2017-01-30T22:31:53Z phoe: I want to remove them inside the whole spec and replace them with something that is more contemporary - references to pathnames common on Unixlikes and Microsoft systems.
2017-01-30T22:32:03Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T22:32:16Z _rumbler31: phoe: Bike:  so (defun creates a symbol with a function attached as a member of the new symbol
2017-01-30T22:32:16Z phoe: Reason - much less confusion, much more practical examples.
2017-01-30T22:32:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T22:32:28Z phoe: _rumbler31: it doesn't create a symbol.
2017-01-30T22:32:29Z ioa left #lisp
2017-01-30T22:32:49Z _rumbler31: hmm
2017-01-30T22:33:05Z phoe: It basically sets (FDEFINITION symbol) to a given function.
2017-01-30T22:33:13Z phoe: The symbol gets automatically created when the form is read.
2017-01-30T22:33:23Z Xach: phoe: I am not in favor of that kind of change.
2017-01-30T22:34:33Z Xach: phoe: At some point, it is helpful to know that namestrings are arbitrary and up to the whims of the implementor, so there isn't a persistent assumption that a namestring to lisp is a pathname string to the OS. I think examples that are a bit alien can help get that idea across.
2017-01-30T22:34:59Z phoe: Xach: Good. But right now, we have *exclusively* alien examples.
2017-01-30T22:35:13Z phoe: Not good for someone who wants a practical example he can copypaste and modify.
2017-01-30T22:35:15Z Xach: It's not clear that unix will ever catch on
2017-01-30T22:35:35Z Bike: phoe: surely by copying all these examples you've noticed that that's the case with a lot of them
2017-01-30T22:36:04Z phoe: I see.
2017-01-30T22:36:14Z Xach: (just kidding about unix)
2017-01-30T22:37:03Z phoe: But.
2017-01-30T22:37:13Z phoe: Let me modify this offer:
2017-01-30T22:37:26Z phoe: I want to add contemporary pathnames along these historical ones.
2017-01-30T22:37:39Z Xach: Sounds sensible to me
2017-01-30T22:37:48Z Xach: Make sure you get 'em right :)
2017-01-30T22:38:15Z phoe: Xach: I'll check them on my own machine beforehand and then consult the proposed changes with #lisp.
2017-01-30T22:38:38Z Xach: For a spec, that's a bit backwards.
2017-01-30T22:38:52Z phoe: No. Why?
2017-01-30T22:38:54Z Xach: reminds me of brucio checking the semantics of random.
2017-01-30T22:39:09Z phoe: There's no point in asking #lisp for reviewing something that doesn't work for me locally.
2017-01-30T22:39:11Z Bike: heh
2017-01-30T22:39:19Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-30T22:39:41Z Xach: phoe: I mean, checking against an implementation merely tells you what an implementation does, not what every implementation should do, or what has undefined consequences.
2017-01-30T22:40:20Z phoe: Xach: still better than not testing at all.
2017-01-30T22:40:39Z Xach: Sure - but test from positive knowledge of the spec, rather than consulting an oracle with a guess.
2017-01-30T22:40:50Z phoe: Good point. Thanks.
2017-01-30T22:41:51Z phoe: Especially that pathnames and namestrings are trivial to get wrong.
2017-01-30T22:43:17Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-30T22:44:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T22:44:08Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T22:44:09Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T22:45:05Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-30T22:46:40Z pillton: How is it going to work with operators like open, probe-file etc.. ?
2017-01-30T22:46:53Z pillton: There is no avenue for extending these operators.
2017-01-30T22:47:03Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-30T22:47:28Z fe[nl]ix: phoe: if you want modern pathnames, there's IOlib
2017-01-30T22:48:05Z fe[nl]ix: ... which comes with a lot of baggage :)
2017-01-30T22:48:23Z quadresce quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-30T22:50:23Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-30T22:50:50Z akkad: pushing your wares again?
2017-01-30T22:51:50Z fe[nl]ix: akkad: ??
2017-01-30T22:53:09Z phoe: fe[nl]ix: IOlib is non-standard.
2017-01-30T22:53:22Z fe[nl]ix: non-standard pathnames are non-standard
2017-01-30T22:53:33Z phoe: no, they're standard
2017-01-30T22:53:37Z phoe: they're explicitly implementation-defined
2017-01-30T22:54:20Z fe[nl]ix: which makes them mostly useless except for trivial cases
2017-01-30T22:54:23Z scottj joined #lisp
2017-01-30T22:54:48Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-30T22:55:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-30T22:56:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T22:59:52Z Xach will gather foreign libraries today
2017-01-30T23:02:09Z maxmaete` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-30T23:02:52Z akkad: who wrote iolib?
2017-01-30T23:06:26Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-30T23:06:44Z fe[nl]ix: mostly I, with lots of help from luis and others
2017-01-30T23:07:31Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T23:08:51Z daniel-s_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T23:08:53Z prxq quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T23:08:57Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T23:09:15Z reepca quit (Read error: No route to host)
2017-01-30T23:11:05Z daniel-s quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T23:15:07Z _rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T23:17:41Z akkad: thus, your wares
2017-01-30T23:18:32Z fe[nl]ix: so ?
2017-01-30T23:19:21Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-30T23:19:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T23:20:46Z parjanya quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-30T23:21:18Z parjanya joined #lisp
2017-01-30T23:27:39Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-30T23:28:59Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-30T23:29:35Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-30T23:29:51Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-30T23:30:39Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2017-01-30T23:30:58Z dyelar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-30T23:31:26Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T23:31:28Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-30T23:33:05Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-30T23:36:14Z papachan_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T23:36:38Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-30T23:37:22Z phoe: Chapter Files pushed, 7/26 dictionaries currently available in CLUS.
2017-01-30T23:37:31Z papachan_ is now known as papachan
2017-01-30T23:37:40Z BusFactor1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T23:37:42Z phoe: The main website will synchronize at full hour.
2017-01-30T23:42:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T23:43:34Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T23:50:45Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-30T23:54:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-30T23:55:02Z spawned4562 joined #lisp
2017-01-30T23:56:13Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-30T23:59:16Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-30T23:59:55Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-31T00:05:10Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T00:08:02Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T00:08:18Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T00:08:28Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T00:09:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T00:11:36Z jasom: fe[nl]ix: does IOLib work on windows?
2017-01-31T00:11:56Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-31T00:12:48Z fe[nl]ix: no
2017-01-31T00:14:32Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T00:15:42Z akkad: it only works on Lisp supported systems that work with (declaim optimize (speed 3)(debug 0)(safety 0))
2017-01-31T00:16:55Z fe[nl]ix: ??
2017-01-31T00:17:39Z TruePika: meh, stuff just got complicated
2017-01-31T00:17:49Z TruePika: (dependency trees)
2017-01-31T00:18:50Z TruePika: I mean, this is _technically_ possible to work around, but I need to use :: which is ugly and prone to break
2017-01-31T00:18:58Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T00:19:06Z TruePika: !
2017-01-31T00:19:19Z TruePika: or I can use generics, which is a much easier solution
2017-01-31T00:19:41Z TruePika discards working directory changes
2017-01-31T00:19:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T00:20:39Z TruePika: ...
2017-01-31T00:20:53Z TruePika: hmmm
2017-01-31T00:21:18Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T00:22:17Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T00:23:41Z manuel_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T00:24:34Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-31T00:25:44Z TruePika: !
2017-01-31T00:25:50Z TruePika discards changes again
2017-01-31T00:26:26Z TruePika: I can just define a simple structure in the "parent" of the depchain, which the "child" can pass data through
2017-01-31T00:26:37Z TruePika: this might additionally close an issue
2017-01-31T00:31:05Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T00:32:04Z billstclair joined #lisp
2017-01-31T00:32:33Z wtetzner joined #lisp
2017-01-31T00:32:52Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-31T00:33:01Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T00:33:19Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T00:33:25Z o`connor_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T00:34:20Z o`connor joined #lisp
2017-01-31T00:34:56Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T00:35:56Z TruePika: wow that seems silly
2017-01-31T00:36:20Z TruePika: Terraria stores the Y-position of the world surface reference point as a `double`
2017-01-31T00:37:17Z Bike: i think that's how you got far lands in minecraft
2017-01-31T00:37:31Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-31T00:38:41Z TruePika: Bike: IIRC Far Lands were from using either floats or not-large-enough ints in the worldgen code
2017-01-31T00:39:07Z TruePika: this is using a double to store a Y position of the world
2017-01-31T00:39:37Z TruePika: where all actual Y positions (wrt the context) are most likely uint32
2017-01-31T00:39:44Z raydeejay: from all the things in terraria... you notice that?
2017-01-31T00:39:48Z TruePika: and not even very large
2017-01-31T00:40:22Z TruePika: raydeejay: there was also a weird thing Terraria.Main.FlameTexture and Terraria.Main.flameTexture; that caused Powershell to complain quite a bit
2017-01-31T00:40:50Z raydeejay: haha
2017-01-31T00:41:27Z TruePika: yeah, I can't call any methods which require an instance of the `Terraria.Main` class, as a result
2017-01-31T00:41:39Z Benjx quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T00:41:52Z TruePika: not that I really need anything from there right now, esp. not for map dumping code
2017-01-31T00:42:22Z raydeejay: there's a doc out there detailing the format of the world file, in case you want to go that route
2017-01-31T00:42:52Z TruePika: raydeejay: nope, this is specifically the _map_ file, and I've already documented it and have working code for reading it
2017-01-31T00:43:11Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T00:43:11Z raydeejay: gotcha
2017-01-31T00:43:17Z TruePika: I'm just working on getting some more accurate render code handled (which depends on stuff not saved in the .map file)
2017-01-31T00:43:43Z TruePika: for instance, the sky has a gradient which depends on the surface reference position
2017-01-31T00:44:09Z TruePika: I figure that users can figure these out themselves if they really want accurate maps, but I'...wtf
2017-01-31T00:44:30Z TruePika: so I have Powershell dump a list of all fields in Terraria.Main which are doubles
2017-01-31T00:44:32Z TruePika: Name                   : nightLength
2017-01-31T00:44:50Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T00:45:01Z raydeejay: so, um, this has nothing to do with lisp?
2017-01-31T00:45:18Z TruePika: yeah, I'm back to coding right now
2017-01-31T00:45:44Z qwxlea quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-31T00:47:18Z TruePika: meh, one of these days I'll have to fix Vim's docstring indentation
2017-01-31T00:48:04Z TruePika: I've been straying away from writing multiline docstrings because Vim causes problems with autoindent
2017-01-31T00:50:28Z TruePika goes to confirm these reference altitudes should be integers before committing with '(unsigned-integer 32)
2017-01-31T00:51:34Z Petit_Dejeuner: "unsigned" They must be pretty big numbers.
2017-01-31T00:51:46Z Petit_Dejeuner: Starting from the center of the earth and working up
2017-01-31T00:52:07Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-31T00:52:31Z TruePika: Petit_Dejeuner: lol, fun fact: this is actually from the edge of space and goes down
2017-01-31T00:53:12Z raydeejay: my advice when trying to figure out why something in terraria is implemented in a particular way is: don't
2017-01-31T00:54:20Z TruePika: s/terraria/any sufficiently-advanced project/
2017-01-31T00:54:21Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-31T00:55:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T00:56:11Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T00:57:07Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T01:03:34Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-31T01:05:22Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T01:06:56Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T01:07:51Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T01:08:48Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-31T01:09:07Z jleija joined #lisp
2017-01-31T01:10:15Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T01:16:09Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-31T01:17:40Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T01:19:56Z vicfred joined #lisp
2017-01-31T01:20:02Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T01:20:26Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-31T01:23:13Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-31T01:28:04Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-31T01:28:24Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T01:29:59Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T01:35:43Z TruePika: lol whoops
2017-01-31T01:35:59Z TruePika: used REPL as bash
2017-01-31T01:40:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T01:41:23Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T01:41:35Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T01:50:47Z TruePika: something weird is happening in this set of changes I'm making right now
2017-01-31T01:51:08Z TruePika: ...
2017-01-31T01:51:11Z TruePika: >_<
2017-01-31T01:51:22Z TruePika: I had replaced a (/ h 2) with something else
2017-01-31T01:51:32Z TruePika: (/ (function-which-gets-h/2))
2017-01-31T01:51:38Z TruePika: resulting in 2/h
2017-01-31T01:52:17Z lisp99 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T01:52:45Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T01:54:50Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T02:00:55Z skaria quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T02:02:24Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T02:04:02Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-31T02:05:03Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T02:05:25Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T02:05:49Z jamtho quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T02:07:30Z TruePika: hmm, time to see how well CLisp runs on Windows
2017-01-31T02:07:58Z TruePika: ...
2017-01-31T02:08:09Z TruePika: HTTP 404 at Cygwin's site
2017-01-31T02:08:35Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T02:14:41Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T02:15:47Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T02:16:14Z TruePika: of course this will lead to the question as to how easy it is to get CLisp to compile stand-alone binaries
2017-01-31T02:17:04Z TruePika: I mean, I would have gone with SBCL, but it causes major issues on my system
2017-01-31T02:17:05Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T02:17:41Z TruePika: and until I know what the problem is, I'm not going to be making builds for distribution with SBCL
2017-01-31T02:17:47Z axion:  I believe you mean clisp, and it does not produce binaries
2017-01-31T02:17:56Z TruePika: axion: not at all?
2017-01-31T02:19:29Z TruePika: I mean, the main issue is that most likely more than 99.9% of people who play Terraria lack a CL environment, so my code is of limited use without providing binaries
2017-01-31T02:21:55Z Bike: there's saveinitmem
2017-01-31T02:22:10Z Bike: but it doesn't produce an executable file it doesn't seem like?
2017-01-31T02:22:18Z Bike: oh, no, it has :executable t
2017-01-31T02:22:53Z axion: There is also #lispgames where this question comes up a lot
2017-01-31T02:23:38Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-31T02:24:17Z My_Hearing quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T02:24:42Z deank joined #lisp
2017-01-31T02:27:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-31T02:29:08Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T02:30:30Z TruePika: any suggestion for a lib to handle command line arguments?
2017-01-31T02:36:45Z Peaches2 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T02:39:11Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T02:40:28Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T02:42:05Z pillton: Define handle?
2017-01-31T02:43:30Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2017-01-31T02:45:42Z pillton: TruePika: http://cliki.net/creating%20executables
2017-01-31T02:46:31Z axion: You don't really need any extra library to do this. You already have command line argument handling with UIOP.
2017-01-31T02:47:37Z pillton: I'm not sure I agree with that. I use https://github.com/markcox80/lisp-executable for example.
2017-01-31T02:49:54Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T02:50:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T02:52:54Z My_Hearing joined #lisp
2017-01-31T02:53:04Z pillton: TruePika: Others are here: http://cliki.net/command-line%20options%20parser
2017-01-31T03:01:07Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T03:01:33Z reepca joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:01:46Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:02:22Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:06:03Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:08:10Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T03:08:42Z nrp3c joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:12:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T03:13:41Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:13:42Z Oladon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T03:14:20Z Oladon joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:15:24Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:16:52Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T03:18:34Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:19:26Z space_otter joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:19:40Z space_otter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T03:21:49Z mada quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T03:23:36Z killmaster quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-31T03:25:17Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-31T03:25:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-31T03:25:42Z killmaster joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:26:03Z arescorpio joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:26:55Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:27:00Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:31:34Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-31T03:38:47Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-31T03:39:23Z emerson quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T03:39:55Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T03:41:03Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:42:20Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:44:05Z TruePika: ...clisp doesn't appear to be loading ASDF
2017-01-31T03:48:19Z TruePika: not even REQUIRE is getting it
2017-01-31T03:50:45Z aries_liuxueyang joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:51:11Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T03:51:42Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-31T03:52:33Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:54:47Z emerson quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T03:57:07Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-31T03:57:52Z loke: TruePika: CLISP is a dead project that comes with an outdated ASDF.
2017-01-31T03:58:02Z loke: TruePika: Best recommendation for you is simply to not use it.
2017-01-31T03:58:45Z TruePika: loke: well I can't use SBCL since it locks up my system entirely when I run it under Windows
2017-01-31T03:59:05Z TruePika: and I need a Lisp that I can use to make Windows binaries of my project
2017-01-31T03:59:19Z emerson quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T03:59:32Z loke: TruePika: Use CCL on Windows.
2017-01-31T03:59:44Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:00:21Z loke: Or Even ECL
2017-01-31T04:00:41Z TruePika: downloading CCL 1.11
2017-01-31T04:00:53Z TruePika: what advantages would ECL have over CCL?
2017-01-31T04:01:14Z loke: TruePika: Smaller binaries.
2017-01-31T04:01:40Z loke: Also, for integrating with C it's very convenient.
2017-01-31T04:01:46Z TruePika: I just saw ECL, probably not an option at this point
2017-01-31T04:02:12Z TruePika: I might look into it eventually, but I don't want to deal with any potential problems which would then result in no e.g. REPL
2017-01-31T04:02:32Z loke: TruePika: Hmm, why would ECL have such issues?
2017-01-31T04:02:41Z TruePika: not ECL, my code
2017-01-31T04:03:01Z pillton: I think ECL has an interpreter now.
2017-01-31T04:03:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T04:03:14Z emerson quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T04:03:41Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:03:46Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:03:49Z TruePika: meh, yolo
2017-01-31T04:04:10Z loke: ECL has always had an interpreter, hasn't it?
2017-01-31T04:04:32Z loke: It definitely has had it since I used it the first time a few years back.
2017-01-31T04:05:03Z vicfred quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-31T04:05:07Z TruePika: meh, do I need to have a working C compiler?
2017-01-31T04:05:28Z loke: TruePika: For ECL, yes.
2017-01-31T04:05:47Z TruePika: maybe ECL will be easier through cross-compiliation from my Debian VM
2017-01-31T04:05:57Z emerson quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T04:06:02Z TruePika: as in I build the bins there
2017-01-31T04:06:13Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:06:14Z pillton: loke: I don't see why you would need one if you use the interpreter.
2017-01-31T04:06:16Z loke: TruePika: Yes, ECL is good for that stuff. I use it on my Lego Mindstorms brick.
2017-01-31T04:06:18Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:06:29Z TruePika: loke: wait, RCX or NXT?
2017-01-31T04:06:34Z TruePika: or even Scout?
2017-01-31T04:06:35Z loke: NXT
2017-01-31T04:06:38Z TruePika: awww
2017-01-31T04:06:47Z TruePika only has an RCX and a pair of Scouts
2017-01-31T04:06:55Z TruePika: ...and no idea where the IR tower is
2017-01-31T04:07:29Z TruePika: though I know there's an NQC (Not Quite C) impl
2017-01-31T04:07:51Z loke: The NXT is slow as, well... something really really slow. As long as I run ECL with the interpreter it's acceptable in the REPL but if I accidentally press C-c C-c to compile a function I have to wait... a long time.
2017-01-31T04:08:15Z loke: But it works, which is pretty neat.
2017-01-31T04:08:19Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:08:35Z TruePika: maybe if I...actually, I think I _do_ have gcc on Whiite
2017-01-31T04:08:38Z pillton: loke: I think NASA had that issue with one of their interplanetary probes.
2017-01-31T04:08:47Z TruePika: might also try out ECL on my Wii
2017-01-31T04:09:02Z loke: pillton: I know one of their probes used Lisp, but was it ECL/
2017-01-31T04:09:03Z loke: ?
2017-01-31T04:09:14Z pillton: I don't think so.
2017-01-31T04:09:45Z TruePika: not sure it was any CL
2017-01-31T04:09:51Z loke: pillton: I don't think you're connected in realtime to a REPL on a probe though? The latency would be very painful.
2017-01-31T04:10:10Z TruePika: loke: maybe line-buffered
2017-01-31T04:10:19Z TruePika: they did use REPL though
2017-01-31T04:10:34Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-31T04:11:16Z TruePika wonders if he can find his old xcompile env
2017-01-31T04:12:18Z TruePika looks through his old C class makefile
2017-01-31T04:12:25Z ahungry quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T04:12:35Z TruePika: ah yes, build-windows.sh
2017-01-31T04:12:41Z spawned4562 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T04:12:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T04:13:05Z TruePika: lol I was making 32-bit and 64-bit builds of my assignments
2017-01-31T04:14:04Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:15:47Z evilemerson joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:16:31Z emerson quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds)
2017-01-31T04:18:13Z vicfred joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:22:05Z parjanya quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T04:24:59Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-31T04:26:04Z lisp99 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-31T04:26:17Z sbodin joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:26:58Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:29:30Z xhe joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:30:16Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:32:37Z TruePika: now how do I get argv[] in ECL?
2017-01-31T04:34:53Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-31T04:35:21Z TruePika: nvm found it
2017-01-31T04:36:57Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-31T04:36:59Z parjanya joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:38:36Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:38:39Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-31T04:40:42Z ghard` joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:40:43Z ghard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T04:41:29Z skaria joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:50:02Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T04:50:08Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T04:50:27Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:56:48Z TruePika: uh oh, ecl won't compile this
2017-01-31T04:56:53Z TruePika: COMPILE-FILE-ERROR while compiling #<cl-source-file "salza2" "bitstream">.
2017-01-31T04:57:11Z TruePika: ;;;   ** BITSTREAM-BUFFER-BIT-COUNT is not a valid type specifier.An error occurred during initialization:
2017-01-31T04:57:57Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-31T04:58:05Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T04:59:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T04:59:44Z TruePika: ...what
2017-01-31T04:59:52Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-31T04:59:57Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-31T04:59:57Z TruePika: there wasn't a problem with the previous function...
2017-01-31T05:00:43Z TruePika: MERGE-BITS compiled successfully
2017-01-31T05:00:44Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:00:54Z TruePika: MERGE-OCTET isn't
2017-01-31T05:01:29Z lisp99 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:01:44Z TruePika: and both make use of BITSTREAM-BUFFER-BIT-COUNT in a DECLARE TYPE
2017-01-31T05:03:56Z evilemerson quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T05:05:10Z evilemerson joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:07:10Z safe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T05:07:25Z evilemerson quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T05:08:47Z TruePika: yeah, I can't find the problem
2017-01-31T05:09:07Z TruePika: Everything seems correct, and SBCL never had an issue with this
2017-01-31T05:09:35Z TruePika: and ECL didn't have an issue in the immediatly preceding function
2017-01-31T05:11:26Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T05:11:37Z evilemerson joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:13:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:13:40Z vicfred quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T05:15:14Z frodef quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T05:17:01Z Bike: it looks like that type is defined in types.lisp, but bitstream.lisp doesn't depend on that file
2017-01-31T05:17:12Z Bike: so depending on the load order that's picked there could be problems
2017-01-31T05:18:05Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T05:18:26Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:19:30Z TruePika: Bike: the previous function compiles fine, though
2017-01-31T05:19:51Z TruePika: is ECL reporting errors in reverse order?
2017-01-31T05:20:04Z Bike: are you testing by compiling the function in the repl or what?
2017-01-31T05:20:25Z Bike: anyway, just try adding the dependency in the asd and see if that fixes it
2017-01-31T05:20:29Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:20:31Z TruePika: command line, trying adding
2017-01-31T05:20:50Z TruePika: yup
2017-01-31T05:21:00Z Bike: as in yup, it works now?
2017-01-31T05:21:20Z TruePika: I don't know if it works, but more compiliation is going on
2017-01-31T05:21:32Z TruePika: looks like it works
2017-01-31T05:21:43Z Bike: tell Xach then i guess.
2017-01-31T05:22:42Z TruePika: Xach: in salza2's .asd, bitstream needs to depend on types
2017-01-31T05:23:02Z TruePika hopes for logging, at least
2017-01-31T05:23:18Z Bike: i meant like, an issue or pull request, but that probably works too
2017-01-31T05:24:11Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T05:24:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T05:26:33Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:29:20Z vicfred joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:29:40Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T05:37:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T05:38:25Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:38:41Z bocaneri joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:38:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:41:13Z TruePika: hm, how should I go about adding a demo app to my system?
2017-01-31T05:41:28Z TruePika: such that ECL can make the actual binary
2017-01-31T05:41:28Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T05:44:23Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-31T05:44:36Z TruePika: meh, looks like it will need a seperate system
2017-01-31T05:46:03Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:47:12Z drmeister: beach: I discovered a source of trouble with my gf dispatch implementation.   I moved the stamp into what you call the rack - previously it was in the header.
2017-01-31T05:47:34Z vicfred quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-31T05:48:02Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T05:48:14Z drmeister: It was in the header previously because a lot of Clasp objects are C++ classes and they don't have a rack.  Fields are in classes that contain the header.
2017-01-31T05:48:55Z daniel-s_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-31T05:49:00Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:51:06Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:54:41Z bugrum joined #lisp
2017-01-31T05:56:31Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-31T05:57:15Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-31T05:58:29Z sbodin_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T05:59:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T05:59:10Z sbodin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T06:00:52Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:08:06Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:10:57Z Guest82 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:11:02Z drmeister: Everything is working now except updating out of date objects (sigh)
2017-01-31T06:11:28Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T06:12:45Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:14:19Z jackdaniel: o/
2017-01-31T06:14:32Z sbodin joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:14:33Z sbodin_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:15:51Z vlatkoB joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:16:41Z jackdaniel: TruePika: ECL doesn't need C compiler, then everything is comipled to the bytecode
2017-01-31T06:16:49Z jackdaniel: having C compiler is good for performance though
2017-01-31T06:17:08Z jackdaniel: also it has REPL
2017-01-31T06:18:02Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T06:18:18Z loke joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:19:49Z Guest82 quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2017-01-31T06:19:59Z mathrick joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:20:04Z TruePika: jackdaniel: right now I'm having trouble figuring out the proper way to define the demo app
2017-01-31T06:20:17Z TruePika: such that ECL can build it to a binary
2017-01-31T06:20:20Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-31T06:20:23Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:20:32Z TruePika: or even to C code
2017-01-31T06:20:53Z jackdaniel: TruePika: check out examples/asdf/ directory
2017-01-31T06:20:53Z TruePika: the problem is that I have a lot of things in quicklisp, and there's the project's code itself as well
2017-01-31T06:21:47Z TruePika: examples/asdf/ has everything coming through an additional .asd, which I can't get detected for some reason
2017-01-31T06:21:54Z jackdaniel: I had recently a report of ASDF not handling some dependencies correctly, that's a recurring problem with it unfortunately
2017-01-31T06:22:04Z jackdaniel: you may add a directory to central registry
2017-01-31T06:22:10Z jackdaniel: try ecl --load readme.lisp
2017-01-31T06:22:25Z jackdaniel: alternatively you may simply load it with (asdf:load-asd "file.asd")
2017-01-31T06:23:32Z TruePika: or make-build?
2017-01-31T06:23:38Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:24:10Z jackdaniel: first asdf needs to "know" the system definition
2017-01-31T06:24:17Z jackdaniel: after that you ought to use make-build
2017-01-31T06:24:47Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T06:24:58Z TruePika: load-asd only loads in the current image, correct?
2017-01-31T06:25:03Z Harag quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-31T06:25:08Z TruePika: doesn't write to the central registry?
2017-01-31T06:25:23Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T06:25:23Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:25:39Z jackdaniel: yes, but modifying central-registry (unless you put it in your rc file) is also only in the current image
2017-01-31T06:25:42Z jackdaniel: )
2017-01-31T06:25:45Z jackdaniel: s/)//
2017-01-31T06:26:12Z TruePika: I was more referring to the system (e.g. if I invoke another `ecl` or even `sbcl`, I don't want to see it)
2017-01-31T06:26:27Z TruePika: that's good
2017-01-31T06:26:29Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-31T06:26:49Z jackdaniel: for what it's worth you may even type your system definition in the repl if you really want to
2017-01-31T06:26:59Z shifty joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:27:36Z jackdaniel: I'll check on later, good luck \o
2017-01-31T06:27:56Z loke: Hello JD
2017-01-31T06:28:03Z jackdaniel: hey loke
2017-01-31T06:28:22Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:28:37Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:28:57Z TruePika: so right now I have a demo-app/ containing a .asd, a .lisp for it, and an ecl-build.lisp -- does this sound reasonable?
2017-01-31T06:29:03Z loke: jackdaniel: Remember I asked for DISASSEMBLE support?
2017-01-31T06:29:20Z loke: jackdaniel: I found a reasonable workaround... Just objdump -d on the fasl.
2017-01-31T06:29:44Z loke: jackdaniel: There is also a .o file. Can you tell me what the difference between the fasl and the .o is?
2017-01-31T06:29:55Z BusFactor1 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:30:19Z jackdaniel: native fasl is actually a ".so" file
2017-01-31T06:30:25Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:30:50Z jackdaniel: give me a second
2017-01-31T06:30:54Z jackdaniel: I've documented it recently
2017-01-31T06:31:17Z jackdaniel: https://common-lisp.net/project/ecl/static/ecldoc/Extensions.html#Compiling-with-ECL
2017-01-31T06:31:20Z jackdaniel: here
2017-01-31T06:31:46Z loke: Thanks.
2017-01-31T06:31:49Z jackdaniel: sure
2017-01-31T06:31:56Z TruePika: might help me understand parts as well
2017-01-31T06:32:13Z TruePika: of at least the big picture of ECL
2017-01-31T06:32:16Z loke: jackdaniel: would it make sense to have DISASSEMBLE simply call objdump? Similar to how ABCL calls jad?
2017-01-31T06:33:06Z jackdaniel: diassemble works on functions, not on files, right?
2017-01-31T06:33:12Z loke: jackdaniel: yes.
2017-01-31T06:33:23Z jackdaniel: then calling objdump won't do much
2017-01-31T06:33:46Z loke: jackdaniel: objdump has the --start-address and --stop-address argument.
2017-01-31T06:33:53Z jackdaniel: btw, if you want to see C code expansion (what's arguably something you may want), try (disassemble '(lambda () (list 1 2 3)))
2017-01-31T06:34:34Z loke: jackdaniel: Interesting
2017-01-31T06:34:52Z jackdaniel: but ECL doesn't know what are the addresses of each function – native fasls are loaded by means of dlopen
2017-01-31T06:35:06Z loke: I guess for most uses, the C code is as good as—or even better than—the disassembly.
2017-01-31T06:35:26Z loke: jackdaniel: another call to objdump will tell you the address of a symbol :-)
2017-01-31T06:35:27Z jackdaniel: and if you have bytecompiled function, disassembly will work for it showing you disassembled bytecode
2017-01-31T06:36:04Z loke: jackdaniel: That's less important. In 99% of cases, I use DISASSEMBLE in order to check the results of type declarations.
2017-01-31T06:36:07Z jackdaniel: loke: OK, I'll accept such pull request ;-)
2017-01-31T06:36:25Z loke: jackdaniel: I might take you up on that, if I'm bored one evening.
2017-01-31T06:36:49Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-31T06:37:20Z jackdaniel: either way, disassemble works for bytecode-compiled functions as expected, and shows the C expansion if you feed it with a definition
2017-01-31T06:37:32Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T06:37:49Z TruePika: ...okay, now where did it put it...
2017-01-31T06:38:18Z jackdaniel: TruePika: it's question to ASDF. make-build has :move-here "/tmp/foo/" argument though
2017-01-31T06:38:18Z TruePika: over in ~/.cache
2017-01-31T06:38:30Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:40:05Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-01-31T06:40:14Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T06:40:18Z jackdaniel: hey beach o/
2017-01-31T06:40:40Z TruePika: and now ASDF was referenced in the compiled bin, but not created
2017-01-31T06:40:52Z TruePika: ASDF/SYSTEM
2017-01-31T06:41:37Z loke: TruePika: Were you able to build your application on Windows with ECL?
2017-01-31T06:41:42Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:42:17Z TruePika: loke: I don't want to get a compiler set up, I was hoping to xcompile from my VM
2017-01-31T06:42:30Z TruePika: but I can't even get a compile from the VM
2017-01-31T06:42:30Z loke: TruePika: That should work.
2017-01-31T06:42:46Z TruePika: need to get native compiling before I can xcompile
2017-01-31T06:42:51Z parjanya: hey :) any books/sites suggestions for me to learn Lisp? I know Python but this is another thing altogether, halp :-o
2017-01-31T06:42:56Z jackdaniel: loke: it should, but ASF has problems with bundling some dependencies
2017-01-31T06:43:02Z loke: parjanya: Definitely PCL
2017-01-31T06:43:02Z jackdaniel: minion: tell parjanya about pcl.
2017-01-31T06:43:05Z minion: parjanya: direct your attention towards pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
2017-01-31T06:43:22Z jackdaniel: s/ASF/ASDF/
2017-01-31T06:43:29Z TruePika: PCL is good, that's how I learned
2017-01-31T06:44:02Z parjanya: All I wanted to do was to edit tables in markdown; so I installed emacs, and here I am ; ))
2017-01-31T06:44:03Z loke: PCL is great for programmers who already know other languages and only need to learn Lisp.
2017-01-31T06:44:42Z parjanya: thanks! I’ll check this one. any others?
2017-01-31T06:44:52Z jackdaniel: minion: tell parjanya about gentle.
2017-01-31T06:44:52Z minion: parjanya: have a look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/
2017-01-31T06:44:53Z loke: parjanya: Is your goal to configure Emacs? Then you should know that Emacs is programmed in Emacs Lisp, which is a different language (but quite similar) to Common Lisp (which is the topic of this channel)
2017-01-31T06:45:05Z jackdaniel: minion: tell parjanya about ansi.
2017-01-31T06:45:11Z minion: ansi: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I?
2017-01-31T06:45:15Z jackdaniel: minion: tell parjanya about ansicl.
2017-01-31T06:45:16Z minion: Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``ansicl''.
2017-01-31T06:45:24Z parjanya: Yes, I know elisp is different, but it got me hooked on Lisp in general
2017-01-31T06:45:36Z loke: parjanya: Ah yes. In that case, PCL is the book for you.
2017-01-31T06:45:38Z jackdaniel: heh, ANSI Common Lisp by Paul Graham is a pretty cool book too, minion doesn't know about it apparently
2017-01-31T06:45:56Z mishoo__ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:45:57Z loke: parjanya: Once you're done with that, Common Lisp Recipies is really good.
2017-01-31T06:46:00Z beach: jackdaniel: It is not hard to teach minion about new things.
2017-01-31T06:46:03Z TruePika: jackdaniel: that wasn't something like a timeout response?
2017-01-31T06:46:03Z parjanya: I’ve installed slime and sb...cl? also; it looks cool in a very weird way
2017-01-31T06:46:18Z TruePika: sbcl sounds correct, with slime
2017-01-31T06:46:36Z loke: parjanya: CLR assumes you already know Lisp but want to _do_ things: http://weitz.de/cl-recipes/
2017-01-31T06:46:59Z parjanya: cool! thanks guys :)
2017-01-31T06:47:19Z loke just noted that even the CLR site recommends PCL for beginners :-)
2017-01-31T06:47:30Z TruePika: Condition of type: SIMPLE-ERROR \ Package ((ASDF/SYSTEM . #<ASDF/SYSTEM package>)) referenced in compiled file \  NIL \ but has not been created
2017-01-31T06:48:04Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:49:26Z parjanya: the terms are very foreign, I stumble in the simplest things... like 'symbol'
2017-01-31T06:49:36Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T06:49:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:49:55Z loke: parjanya: All right, I'll tell you what a symbol is, in the simplest possible way.
2017-01-31T06:50:48Z loke: parjanya: A symbol is really nothing more than a unique pointer. An address, a unique number if you like. A symbol has a name which you can use to find that value... So the symbol FOO always refers to the same magic value.
2017-01-31T06:51:01Z loke: parjanya: You can think of the symbol table as a huge hashtable.
2017-01-31T06:51:10Z loke: parjanya: That's really all there is to it.
2017-01-31T06:51:22Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T06:51:54Z parjanya: can I say it’s a string associated to some memory address?
2017-01-31T06:52:02Z loke: There is, of course, more to it. But unless I know where your confusion is, I can't really explain it.
2017-01-31T06:52:06Z loke: parjanya: Yes.
2017-01-31T06:52:29Z loke: parjanya: And that memory address contains some information about the symbol (like its name, package, property list and a few other things)
2017-01-31T06:53:30Z loke: parjanya: The best thing about symbols is that they are unique, and only the same actual symbol will compare equal to itself. That means that when you have a CASE statement selecting on a symbol, such lookups will be very fast since there are no string comparisons involved.
2017-01-31T06:53:36Z loke: That's just one use of symbols.
2017-01-31T06:53:40Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-31T06:54:08Z parjanya: do I need to know this internal stuff? because it seems everything is much more exposed to the programmer than in a regular language. like... I would like to see what is ‘inside’ a symbol if I really need to understand the entrails
2017-01-31T06:54:50Z loke: parjanya: Not really. Most if not all languages have symbols, they are just more exposed in Lisp.
2017-01-31T06:55:02Z TruePika: a symbol is an entity in and of itself, there isn't much inside
2017-01-31T06:55:27Z loke: parjanya: But that's because you can run code that processes code, and you can write macros which execute while your code is begin compiled. When that happens you really need access to the symbols.
2017-01-31T06:55:33Z TruePika: a couple things which might prove useful are #'DESCRIBE and #'INSPECT
2017-01-31T06:55:33Z jackdaniel: TruePika: apparently ASDF can't understand, that if #:asdf is in the dependencies it should bundle libasdf.a too
2017-01-31T06:55:41Z jackdaniel: because it desperately tries to put uiop there
2017-01-31T06:56:18Z TruePika: jackdaniel: workaround?
2017-01-31T06:57:43Z jackdaniel: give me a minut, checking on ASDF sources
2017-01-31T06:57:54Z jackdaniel: I'm definetely spending too much time looking at these ;)
2017-01-31T06:59:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T07:00:22Z parjanya: is there an easy way to have CL documentation inside emacs? like when I ask it C-h f for a function
2017-01-31T07:00:36Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:00:52Z TruePika: I think there might be a way to even get the hyperspec, but I don't use emacs, so I can't help much
2017-01-31T07:00:54Z Bike: C-h f is for emacs functions, not lisp functions
2017-01-31T07:01:00Z loke: parjanya: Yes. If you have SLIME, you move to a symbol and press C-c C-d d
2017-01-31T07:01:04Z TruePika: you _can_ use (describe 'foo) though
2017-01-31T07:01:25Z parjanya: yes, I meant something akin to what emacs does
2017-01-31T07:01:28Z parjanya: tx again :)
2017-01-31T07:01:30Z Bike: oh, sorry
2017-01-31T07:01:34Z loke: parjanya: Yes, that's C-c C-d d
2017-01-31T07:01:41Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:01:59Z loke: parjanya: There is also M-x slime-hyperspec-lookup
2017-01-31T07:02:07Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:02:19Z parjanya: why am I so excited over this? hah
2017-01-31T07:02:35Z jackdaniel: because of the prefix "hyper" ;-)
2017-01-31T07:02:50Z parjanya: huahuahua... I’ve already set that key : o )
2017-01-31T07:07:14Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T07:10:00Z parjanya: in (concatenate 'string test test)... 'string has meaning only inside that function, right? it should mean only itself
2017-01-31T07:10:42Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-31T07:11:00Z Bike: it's a type specifier.
2017-01-31T07:12:13Z beach: parjanya: 'stuff is short for (quote stuff) and quote is a special operator that returns its argument unevaluated.
2017-01-31T07:12:43Z parjanya: but concatenate knows what to do with it because there is something inside saying so, right?
2017-01-31T07:13:02Z Bike: something "inside" what?
2017-01-31T07:13:11Z parjanya: the function
2017-01-31T07:13:15Z beach: parjanya: concatenate compares its first argument to the symbol named STRING.
2017-01-31T07:13:19Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:13:20Z Bike: it's part of concatenate's definition, yes.
2017-01-31T07:13:27Z parjanya: something like if type == 'string then...
2017-01-31T07:13:28Z parjanya: right
2017-01-31T07:13:43Z loke: parjanya: That is correct
2017-01-31T07:14:34Z loke: parjanya: the CONCATENATE function looks at the first argument, and you can think of it as having a big CASE-statement, selecting on that value. If the argument is STRING it will build a string out of the remaining arguments, if it's LIST it will build a list, etc...
2017-01-31T07:14:35Z diogo__franco quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T07:16:08Z parjanya: I see... it’s very strict, nothing like + that usually means many things at once
2017-01-31T07:16:53Z loke: parjanya: It doesn't have to be. The language allows you to construct "overloaded" functions that would do that, and some of them do.
2017-01-31T07:17:26Z parjanya: even if I say (concatenate 'string 1 1) it complains 1 isn’t a string, so only with "1" "1"
2017-01-31T07:17:47Z parjanya: I assume making things this precise might make the code faster?
2017-01-31T07:18:02Z Bike: it's not definitionally obvious how to convert 1 into a string, either
2017-01-31T07:18:09Z Bike: or numbers in general. there are bases and such
2017-01-31T07:18:25Z Bike: also, concatenate operates on sequences, rather than just strings, so who's to say 1 isn't coerced into a bit vector?
2017-01-31T07:18:35Z Bike: the ambiguity isn't really worth marginal convenience
2017-01-31T07:18:38Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T07:18:43Z evilemerson quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T07:18:56Z parjanya: bit vector? :-$
2017-01-31T07:19:40Z evilemerson joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:19:51Z Bike: a vector of bits
2017-01-31T07:20:06Z Bike: a string is a vector of characters, if you didn't know
2017-01-31T07:20:16Z flamebeard joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:21:06Z parjanya: right, that I knew :) but bits, not like #b1111 I suppose...?
2017-01-31T07:21:46Z TruePika: no, more like #(1 1 1 1)
2017-01-31T07:21:50Z Bike: #b1111 is an integer. a bit vector would be written #*1111
2017-01-31T07:21:55Z axion: No that is just a base 2 number. a bit vector is a sequence of 0's and 1's
2017-01-31T07:21:57Z TruePika: or that is more accurate
2017-01-31T07:22:35Z TruePika: how many bits are in #b001011 = #b1011 ?
2017-01-31T07:22:43Z axion: TruePika: more like #*1111
2017-01-31T07:22:46Z TruePika: that is one application of the bit vector
2017-01-31T07:23:07Z parjanya: f...four?
2017-01-31T07:23:25Z Bike: in a lisp integer there are infinitely many zero bits, but that's neither here nor there
2017-01-31T07:23:32Z TruePika: not necessairily, because depending on context, those leading zeroes could be important
2017-01-31T07:23:40Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T07:23:44Z TruePika: (e.g. compression algorithms)
2017-01-31T07:23:47Z parjanya: can they be read from either side?
2017-01-31T07:24:07Z parjanya: or... in chunks of different sizes
2017-01-31T07:24:19Z TruePika: they're a vector, they can be read in any way you please
2017-01-31T07:24:25Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T07:24:37Z parjanya: ah, I keep thinking they are just numbers
2017-01-31T07:24:43Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:24:53Z TruePika: (bit bit-array n)
2017-01-31T07:25:48Z TruePika: jackdaniel: anything yet?
2017-01-31T07:26:45Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:27:03Z jackdaniel: yes, asdf registers itself as "preloaded system" confusing itself in that matter (i.e it treats itself as always loaded in the image)
2017-01-31T07:27:09Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:28:17Z xhe quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-31T07:28:21Z jackdaniel: TruePika: while I'm fixing it you may report an issue on lauchpad for asdf, what would you say?
2017-01-31T07:29:17Z TruePika: well I don't even have a launchpad account, right now I'm researching into cross-compilation
2017-01-31T07:29:38Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T07:29:41Z jackdaniel: making a small detour to report an issue would be a nice gesture
2017-01-31T07:29:54Z TruePika: yeah, I know
2017-01-31T07:32:08Z jackdaniel: >you know< like: "OK, I'll do it" or maybe rather "But I don't have time for that"?
2017-01-31T07:33:16Z TruePika: I just finished registering with Ubuntu One
2017-01-31T07:34:48Z jackdaniel: :)
2017-01-31T07:34:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T07:36:49Z TruePika: so ASDF, when doing the build, thought that it had included itself in said build? (confirmation that I understand)
2017-01-31T07:36:51Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:37:19Z jackdaniel: yes, and input-files method for asdf system returns NIL
2017-01-31T07:37:36Z jackdaniel: in effect ASDF isn't included in the final executable despity the ensure-linkable-system machinery
2017-01-31T07:37:41Z jackdaniel: s/despity/despite/
2017-01-31T07:37:59Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:40:16Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-31T07:40:56Z pvaneynd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T07:41:17Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:45:35Z jackdaniel: TruePika: simple workaround will  be adding "prebuilt-asdf" to the dependency list
2017-01-31T07:45:39Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-31T07:45:57Z jackdaniel: it should be found in sys: logical pathname
2017-01-31T07:46:23Z TruePika: https://bugs.launchpad.net/asdf/+bug/1660547
2017-01-31T07:46:44Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T07:46:56Z jackdaniel: thanks
2017-01-31T07:47:01Z TruePika: as in the :depends-on?
2017-01-31T07:47:02Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:48:01Z TruePika: apparently not the :depends-on, same error (despite additional compiliations)
2017-01-31T07:48:15Z jackdaniel: yes, as in the depends-on
2017-01-31T07:48:32Z jackdaniel: did you clean your cache
2017-01-31T07:48:33Z jackdaniel: ?
2017-01-31T07:48:40Z TruePika: oops, no
2017-01-31T07:49:51Z jackdaniel: here's how depends-on clause looks in my test system: :depends-on (#:prebuilt-asdf #:alexandria #:usocket)
2017-01-31T07:50:15Z TruePika: I've been interning into keywords, but that's pretty much the same
2017-01-31T07:50:34Z TruePika: I just wiped out the ECL in ~/.cache , trying another build now
2017-01-31T07:50:48Z krrrcks joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:50:50Z TruePika: (overkill, I know)
2017-01-31T07:51:03Z jackdaniel: OK, good luck
2017-01-31T07:51:09Z jackdaniel: I've got things to do, will be back later o/
2017-01-31T07:51:29Z TruePika: no luck :(
2017-01-31T07:51:39Z jackdaniel: what is the error? asdf/something not found?
2017-01-31T07:51:49Z jackdaniel: what ECL version do you use?
2017-01-31T07:51:51Z TruePika: same exact as before
2017-01-31T07:52:01Z TruePika: ECL is 16.1.3
2017-01-31T07:52:26Z TruePika: the end of the compile had a long string of duplicate proclamation messages
2017-01-31T07:52:45Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:53:01Z jackdaniel: you may ignore duplicate proclamations
2017-01-31T07:53:03Z TruePika: I'm not sure if that was the result of the prebuilt-asdf
2017-01-31T07:53:10Z TruePika: which is why I mentioned it
2017-01-31T07:55:03Z jackdaniel: I don't know what goes wrong, I'd write to ASDF mailing list
2017-01-31T07:55:14Z TruePika: Just `git stash`ed the testbed for tonight, might see about debugging SBCL under Windows tomorrow
2017-01-31T07:56:04Z TruePika: (which will be a pain since I'll need to install WinDbg on a second system)
2017-01-31T07:56:18Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T07:56:30Z TruePika: going /away for the night
2017-01-31T07:56:59Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-31T07:57:36Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T07:58:24Z parjanya: gnight! thanks all for the help :)
2017-01-31T07:59:30Z krrrcks quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T08:03:59Z Peaches2 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:08:49Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft)
2017-01-31T08:09:27Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-31T08:09:58Z d4ryus2 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:10:34Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:10:40Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T08:12:40Z d4ryus1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T08:16:32Z bugrum quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-31T08:16:58Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:19:06Z mishoo_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:20:43Z o1e9 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:20:46Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T08:21:24Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:21:32Z xaotuk joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:21:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T08:23:19Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:26:26Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T08:34:40Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T08:34:58Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:39:27Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:41:23Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:42:43Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:45:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T08:46:08Z Bike quit (Quit: antichrist)
2017-01-31T08:47:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:49:15Z xaotuk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T08:51:15Z stepnem joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:53:26Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:54:34Z Harag quit (Quit: Harag)
2017-01-31T08:55:03Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:56:20Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T08:57:31Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T08:59:05Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T09:02:39Z redeemed joined #lisp
2017-01-31T09:05:10Z m_zr0_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T09:05:13Z mathrick quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T09:05:30Z mathrick joined #lisp
2017-01-31T09:08:36Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T09:09:20Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-31T09:12:23Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T09:12:26Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T09:17:00Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T09:17:07Z smokeink joined #lisp
2017-01-31T09:17:54Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-31T09:18:51Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-31T09:22:13Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-31T09:22:43Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T09:24:09Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T09:27:11Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T09:27:58Z teggi joined #lisp
2017-01-31T09:30:09Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T09:33:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T09:34:35Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T09:35:49Z dec0n joined #lisp
2017-01-31T09:43:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T09:45:07Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T09:45:24Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-31T09:54:08Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2017-01-31T09:54:11Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T09:55:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:00:05Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T10:00:06Z daniel-s_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:00:27Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:05:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T10:06:52Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:07:02Z phoe_: (
2017-01-31T10:07:16Z scottj left #lisp
2017-01-31T10:07:18Z ebrasca: phoe_: Hi
2017-01-31T10:09:00Z phoe_: ebrasca: Hey
2017-01-31T10:12:22Z ebrasca: phoe_: I can't go.
2017-01-31T10:13:14Z phoe_: ebrasca: Go where?
2017-01-31T10:13:32Z ebrasca: phoe_: Your events.
2017-01-31T10:13:50Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:15:10Z phoe_: ebrasca: Don't worry - they're paused for now anyway.
2017-01-31T10:16:56Z pvaneynd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T10:17:57Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T10:18:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:22:22Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:25:53Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:27:10Z krasnal quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T10:27:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-31T10:28:00Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:37:41Z myrkraverk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T10:38:26Z daniel-s_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T10:39:41Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T10:40:21Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:41:11Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:41:46Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T10:42:48Z m00natic joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:44:52Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-31T10:48:03Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:49:53Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:49:59Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T10:52:21Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:52:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T10:53:17Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-31T10:54:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:54:56Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-31T10:54:58Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-31T10:58:26Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T10:59:07Z logicmoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:00:40Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T11:04:50Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:04:56Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T11:05:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:06:40Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T11:16:20Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:16:33Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T11:16:51Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:18:20Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:20:49Z mvilleneuve quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T11:22:18Z logicmoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T11:22:47Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:23:13Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:27:05Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T11:27:11Z w37 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T11:28:13Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T11:28:28Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:28:56Z dmiles joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:28:58Z diogo__franco joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:31:00Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:32:03Z mvilleneuve quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-31T11:32:46Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T11:37:26Z glamas joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:40:25Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T11:41:41Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:42:32Z glamas quit (Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com)
2017-01-31T11:42:55Z hhdave quit (Quit: hhdave)
2017-01-31T11:43:02Z shka joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:43:48Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:43:48Z hhdave quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-31T11:44:16Z hhdave joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:46:46Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T11:48:03Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:48:20Z ghard` quit (Quit: plugh)
2017-01-31T11:49:18Z ghard joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:49:26Z hhdave quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T11:50:11Z My_Hearing quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
2017-01-31T11:52:08Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T11:53:50Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:54:31Z zeissoctopus joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:57:27Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-31T11:57:56Z Mon_Ouie quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-31T11:59:48Z raynold quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-31T12:02:56Z pjb` joined #lisp
2017-01-31T12:03:27Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-31T12:04:47Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T12:05:05Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T12:05:16Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-31T12:09:22Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-31T12:14:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T12:15:01Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2017-01-31T12:16:36Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T12:19:53Z CORDIC joined #lisp
2017-01-31T12:20:10Z phoe_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-31T12:20:26Z Harag joined #lisp
2017-01-31T12:20:30Z Xach: I have a New Report
2017-01-31T12:20:47Z Xach: It is every foreign library loaded for Quicklisp projects, and the projects that depend on them.
2017-01-31T12:20:51Z Xach prettifies for pasting
2017-01-31T12:21:35Z DKordic quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T12:25:56Z Xach: paste too large!
2017-01-31T12:26:36Z Xach: http://xach.com/tmp/ffi-report.txt is it
2017-01-31T12:27:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T12:28:56Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T12:31:41Z Blukunfando quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T12:31:46Z jackdaniel: Xach: did develop branch of mcclim work fine?
2017-01-31T12:32:41Z Xach: jackdaniel: yes
2017-01-31T12:32:54Z jackdaniel: OK, then I'm merging it to master
2017-01-31T12:32:54Z jackdaniel: thanks
2017-01-31T12:33:37Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2017-01-31T12:33:55Z myrkraverk quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T12:36:27Z Xach: hmm
2017-01-31T12:36:29Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-31T12:36:45Z Xach: one thing I don't understand about my report is why some loaded libs are in the source directory and some are in the fasl directory.
2017-01-31T12:37:46Z jackdaniel: it might be that some applications bundle prebuilt so files with them
2017-01-31T12:37:47Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-31T12:37:50Z jackdaniel: and do load-foreign-library
2017-01-31T12:37:54Z jackdaniel: with a full path
2017-01-31T12:38:14Z jackdaniel: while other are built with cffi-toolchain
2017-01-31T12:38:21Z jackdaniel: s/built/build/
2017-01-31T12:38:49Z Xach: Do some projects bundle prebuild sos?
2017-01-31T12:39:13Z jackdaniel: I believe qtools did that, but you have to ask Shinmera
2017-01-31T12:39:21Z jackdaniel: other projects may do that as well
2017-01-31T12:39:22Z Xach: I think that might be the only one
2017-01-31T12:39:44Z Xach: Anyway, if they are dynamically building .sos in the source directory, that would make it hard to use a shared/global quicklisp directory.
2017-01-31T12:39:49Z Xach: harder
2017-01-31T12:40:31Z zeissoctopus quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-31T12:40:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T12:41:16Z jackdaniel: I think they are statically included
2017-01-31T12:41:41Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T12:43:44Z Xach: clsql has some
2017-01-31T12:46:18Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-31T12:49:47Z pjb is now known as Guest66974
2017-01-31T12:49:54Z pjb` is now known as pjb
2017-01-31T12:51:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T12:52:30Z Xach: Hmm, and those local .sos are masking the real dependency, too. hmm
2017-01-31T12:52:53Z Xach: or maybe not.
2017-01-31T12:53:09Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T12:53:37Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-31T12:59:48Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T13:03:06Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T13:03:34Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:04:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T13:04:44Z sbodin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T13:06:00Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:08:46Z phoe_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:11:25Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:16:04Z travv0 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T13:16:05Z myrkraverk joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:16:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-31T13:17:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:21:26Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:21:39Z chavezgu quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2017-01-31T13:22:50Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:26:34Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T13:28:13Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-31T13:28:31Z joga quit (Changing host)
2017-01-31T13:28:31Z joga joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:28:59Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:29:02Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T13:29:10Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:29:15Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T13:30:10Z shifty quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T13:30:50Z MoALTz_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:32:02Z chavezgu joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:32:08Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:33:28Z myrkraverk quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T13:34:26Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T13:38:02Z evilemerson is now known as emerson
2017-01-31T13:39:51Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:39:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T13:41:09Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:41:16Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:46:51Z pvaneynd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T13:47:19Z bungoman_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:49:00Z lisp99: what serialization library people use ?
2017-01-31T13:49:44Z lisp99: for persistence storage..
2017-01-31T13:49:58Z bungoman quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T13:50:00Z flip214: lisp99: cl-store, for example
2017-01-31T13:50:04Z jackdaniel: lisp99: cl-store is quite popular and works on many implementations
2017-01-31T13:50:04Z flip214: or elephant
2017-01-31T13:50:07Z flip214: or rucksack
2017-01-31T13:51:34Z phoe_: bknr.datastore in my case
2017-01-31T13:51:43Z mada joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:51:49Z dlowe: As much as I like rucksack, I wouldn't really recommend it since it's abandoned.
2017-01-31T13:51:57Z dlowe: At least it was when I checked last.
2017-01-31T13:52:32Z flip214: possibly.... just came to my mind.
2017-01-31T13:52:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T13:53:38Z dlowe: It would be awesome if someone could pick it up and give it some love
2017-01-31T13:54:05Z dlowe: Or better yet, maybe replace its serialization with cl-store
2017-01-31T13:54:43Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:55:22Z papachan quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2017-01-31T13:55:52Z safe joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:57:59Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T13:59:47Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T13:59:55Z xhe joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:01:21Z mvilleneuve left #lisp
2017-01-31T14:01:39Z test1600 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-31T14:03:21Z Xach: cl-store is pretty easy
2017-01-31T14:05:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T14:06:06Z Peaches2 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T14:06:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:08:06Z lisp99: thanks
2017-01-31T14:08:41Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:12:05Z xhe quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-31T14:12:27Z xhe joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:14:22Z qwxlea joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:16:26Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:17:23Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T14:17:41Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:17:42Z pvaneynd_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:19:01Z Mon_Ouie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T14:19:33Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:21:03Z omshantiom joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:21:11Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-31T14:21:46Z pvaneynd_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T14:22:08Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:25:47Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T14:26:13Z phoe_: How can I enable rainbow-delimiters in spacemacs SLIME REPL?
2017-01-31T14:26:22Z phoe_: M-x rainbow-delimiters-mode does nothing in the *slime-repl* buffer.
2017-01-31T14:27:19Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T14:27:49Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T14:28:55Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:31:02Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T14:32:44Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-31T14:33:57Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-31T14:34:20Z xhe quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-31T14:34:39Z strelox joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:35:51Z xhe joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:36:38Z omshantiom quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-31T14:37:29Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:38:04Z LiamH joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:39:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-31T14:40:42Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:41:46Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:41:58Z jamtho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T14:42:51Z jamtho joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:43:07Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T14:43:39Z nowhereman joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:44:19Z Josh_2 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:44:33Z pvaneynd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T14:45:34Z sigjuice quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-31T14:50:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T14:50:15Z eschulte left #lisp
2017-01-31T14:50:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:51:28Z lisp99: spacemacs ;)
2017-01-31T14:51:44Z phoe_: lisp99: yes, spacemacs
2017-01-31T14:52:07Z vj4 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:52:24Z sigjuice joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:53:17Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:56:33Z qwxlea quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.0.50.1))
2017-01-31T14:56:55Z qwxlea joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:57:08Z varjag joined #lisp
2017-01-31T14:57:28Z nowhereman quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-31T15:00:10Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:00:40Z dec0n quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T15:01:02Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-31T15:02:26Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T15:02:32Z phoe_: I have a public inquiry about the code examples in CLUS.
2017-01-31T15:02:44Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:03:12Z phoe_: To be specific - about the return values.
2017-01-31T15:03:39Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:03:41Z phoe_: Should they be formatted differently, like, have a different background, to note that they are returned by the REPL?
2017-01-31T15:04:12Z rippa joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:05:40Z Amplituhedron quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-31T15:06:07Z phoe_: This would solve a few of the problems I am currently having with how to treat return values in various code examples.
2017-01-31T15:06:37Z Amplituhedron joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:06:50Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-31T15:07:10Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:08:41Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T15:10:52Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:11:35Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:12:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T15:13:37Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:18:03Z BusFacto_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:18:07Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T15:19:11Z manuel_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:22:00Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:25:24Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T15:26:23Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:34:06Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T15:34:19Z flip214: phoe_: how about italic?
2017-01-31T15:34:34Z flip214: or is that already reserved for something else?
2017-01-31T15:34:35Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:34:54Z phoe_: flip214: I know.
2017-01-31T15:34:54Z phoe_: I'
2017-01-31T15:35:04Z phoe_: I'll put it in a differently colored DIV element.
2017-01-31T15:35:06Z al-damiri joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:35:11Z phoe_: Basically, one more inner block.
2017-01-31T15:35:43Z flip214: or maybe the _block_ the results are in being right-aligned (but not the individual lines!)
2017-01-31T15:36:21Z phoe_: flip214: this will break on very wide screens.
2017-01-31T15:36:35Z phoe_: I'd rather keep code left-aligned because that's how it works in REPLs.
2017-01-31T15:36:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T15:37:20Z phoe_: This means that I have to implement the code for displaying this and revise all of the example blocks that I'
2017-01-31T15:37:23Z phoe_: ve already parsed.
2017-01-31T15:37:25Z phoe_: Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!
2017-01-31T15:37:41Z jurov: and unfold on mouseover
2017-01-31T15:37:45Z jurov hides
2017-01-31T15:38:28Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:38:46Z pjb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T15:38:50Z phoe_ gets the shotgun
2017-01-31T15:38:51Z phoe_: who said that
2017-01-31T15:39:44Z flip214: phoe_: putting a <DIV class=result> around it is a one-time-only operation.
2017-01-31T15:39:54Z flip214: all styling issues can then be resolved via JS and/or CSS.
2017-01-31T15:39:57Z phoe_: flip214: yes, I know.
2017-01-31T15:40:00Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:40:13Z phoe_: But I have to visit all of my files and put the proper tags in the markup.
2017-01-31T15:40:22Z flip214: are the source files available as text? perhaps some editor macro would help?
2017-01-31T15:40:30Z phoe_: flip214: haha, of course they will help.
2017-01-31T15:40:33Z pvaneynd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T15:40:38Z phoe_: they're available at github.com/phoe/clus-data
2017-01-31T15:40:59Z flip214 thinks "with proper markup as result in the first place this wouldn't have happened... LaTeX, anyone?"
2017-01-31T15:41:02Z flip214 hides quickly
2017-01-31T15:41:08Z phoe_: ...
2017-01-31T15:41:12Z phoe_: flip214: I had LaTeX to begin with
2017-01-31T15:41:22Z phoe_: and no, it *would* have happened, because it happened
2017-01-31T15:41:37Z phoe_: the Lisp code examples in the draft standard had completely *no* markup in them.
2017-01-31T15:41:43Z phoe_: they were just preformatted text.
2017-01-31T15:41:52Z flip214: sory for my unqualified statements.
2017-01-31T15:42:00Z phoe_: nah, don't worry
2017-01-31T15:42:28Z flip214: phoe_: raw/ is the "real" source?
2017-01-31T15:43:02Z xhe quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T15:43:12Z phoe_: yes, they are the dictionaries cut into pieces.
2017-01-31T15:43:29Z phoe_: before any cleanup or parsing.
2017-01-31T15:43:31Z xhe joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:43:34Z oleo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:43:46Z flip214: \EV is already there... seems I don't really understand what I'm talking here.
2017-01-31T15:44:08Z flip214: and I've got to get out of the train soon, so it's not likely I'll comprehend it now.
2017-01-31T15:44:18Z flip214: sorry for wasting your time.
2017-01-31T15:44:37Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:45:00Z phoe_: flip214: oh come on
2017-01-31T15:45:02Z phoe_: you're not wasting my time
2017-01-31T15:45:33Z flip214: should I try harder?
2017-01-31T15:45:48Z phoe_: my problem is:
2017-01-31T15:46:02Z phoe_: sometimes the \EV returned values are multiline.
2017-01-31T15:46:12Z phoe_: so I cannot just bulk-change everything using some regex.
2017-01-31T15:46:31Z phoe_: I don't care if it's the latex \EV or the post-processed → symbol.
2017-01-31T15:47:54Z phoe_: The problem is elsewhere.
2017-01-31T15:47:56Z flip214: well, taking the next terms after \EV but leaving one (the next paren pair) aside?
2017-01-31T15:48:16Z phoe_: I can't expect to have a paren there.
2017-01-31T15:48:19Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT)
2017-01-31T15:48:21Z phoe_: (foo) → 3
2017-01-31T15:48:23Z phoe_: 2 → 2
2017-01-31T15:49:04Z flip214: if there's no paren, then whitespace?!
2017-01-31T15:49:12Z flip214: whitespace-separated I meant
2017-01-31T15:49:47Z flip214: where's a multiline result?
2017-01-31T15:49:48Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T15:49:56Z flip214: gethash?
2017-01-31T15:50:03Z easye: phoe_ flip214 :  looking good@
2017-01-31T15:50:06Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:50:13Z easye: s/good@/good!/
2017-01-31T15:50:15Z phoe_: flip214: I don't know, that's the thing.
2017-01-31T15:50:18Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-31T15:50:28Z phoe_: I need to review the pages anyway just to pick these things up.
2017-01-31T15:51:03Z flip214: ah, http://phoe.tymoon.eu/clus/doku.php?id=cl:functions:make-array
2017-01-31T15:51:07Z flip214: (dotimes (i 8) (print (list i (aref b i))))
2017-01-31T15:51:16Z flip214: with the ▷  marker
2017-01-31T15:52:18Z flip214: hmmm no, that's just \OUT
2017-01-31T15:53:26Z phoe_: yes, that's output
2017-01-31T15:53:37Z phoe_: I could possibly give that a different DIV, too.
2017-01-31T15:54:05Z TDT quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-31T15:54:22Z phoe_: Bah.
2017-01-31T15:54:41Z phoe_: I'll just grep the source for any → that happens after ====Description====.
2017-01-31T15:56:38Z phoe_ afk
2017-01-31T15:56:41Z phoe_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
2017-01-31T16:00:52Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:01:15Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T16:01:23Z pvaneynd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T16:01:33Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:01:39Z rumbler31: trying to set up swank/slime pathname redirection.  I have code on the dev machine, and I'm connecting to an image on the production machine.  The slime manual seems to assume that the files would be on the remote machine, but I imagine that I can do a pathname redirection so that my local emacs looks for local files?  or is this not supported?
2017-01-31T16:02:01Z easye: rumbler31: Is the emacs running under Windows?
2017-01-31T16:02:07Z rumbler31: nope
2017-01-31T16:02:08Z flip214: rumbler31: I'm doing this in my ~/.sbclrc:
2017-01-31T16:02:09Z flip214: (setf (logical-pathname-translations "SYS")
2017-01-31T16:02:22Z rumbler31: the production machine is though
2017-01-31T16:02:27Z easye: rumbler31: good.  Should work.
2017-01-31T16:02:39Z flip214:  '(("SYS:SRC;**;*.*.*"  #p"/..../src/sbcl/src/**/*.*")
2017-01-31T16:02:46Z flip214: and similar for SYS:CONTRIB;
2017-01-31T16:02:58Z rumbler31: hmm
2017-01-31T16:03:10Z flip214: that should report the right "wrong" paths back, I believe
2017-01-31T16:03:17Z flip214: locally it does work for me with slimv + vim.
2017-01-31T16:03:43Z rumbler31: thanks i'll try it out
2017-01-31T16:04:04Z atgreen: newbie question..  how do I add a filename extension to a pathname in lisp?
2017-01-31T16:04:57Z dlowe: if it's a string, you just concatenate .extension on it. Otherwise, you (setf (pathname-type path) "txt")
2017-01-31T16:05:15Z atgreen: ahh.. testing that last one
2017-01-31T16:05:56Z atgreen: there's no way to do it without side-effects?
2017-01-31T16:06:10Z atgreen: I don't want to change path, I want a new path a new extension
2017-01-31T16:06:46Z Xach: atgreen: (make-pathname :type "txt" :defaults old-pathname)
2017-01-31T16:07:28Z easye: Xach: cool.
2017-01-31T16:07:39Z sbodin__ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:07:55Z Xach: pathname-type is not an accessor
2017-01-31T16:08:46Z rumbler31: is there a way to unregister a method?
2017-01-31T16:08:53Z easye-ipad joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:09:13Z redeemed quit (Quit: q)
2017-01-31T16:09:47Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T16:10:01Z jdz: rumbler31: There is, and it's easy using SLIME.
2017-01-31T16:10:18Z Xach: rumbler31: remove-method is the function. slime makes selecting the right method very easy.
2017-01-31T16:10:38Z Xach: otherwise you have to specify the method in some detail. well, as much detail as defmethod has, so maybe it's not so bad.
2017-01-31T16:10:42Z rlatimore joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:10:46Z rumbler31: hmm
2017-01-31T16:10:47Z Xach: but slime is so easy. you just inspect the generic function object.
2017-01-31T16:11:06Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T16:11:56Z easye-ipad quit (Client Quit)
2017-01-31T16:12:30Z rumbler31: tyyyy
2017-01-31T16:12:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:12:44Z Josh_2 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T16:13:58Z Einwq joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:17:10Z rumbler31: how do you get at the gf objects?
2017-01-31T16:19:44Z beach: #'name-of-function
2017-01-31T16:20:53Z dlowe: find-method
2017-01-31T16:21:14Z dlowe: oh, in the inspector
2017-01-31T16:22:27Z atgreen: Xach, thanks.  It works perfectly.
2017-01-31T16:22:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T16:22:56Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:24:18Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:24:30Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:27:09Z xhe quit (Quit: leaving)
2017-01-31T16:28:01Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:28:22Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T16:29:03Z pvaneynd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T16:30:13Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T16:30:45Z rumbler31: thats too sexy
2017-01-31T16:31:14Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T16:33:06Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.7)
2017-01-31T16:34:47Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T16:34:55Z jdz joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:35:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:36:27Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:39:11Z pvaneynd quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T16:39:25Z easye-ipad joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:40:44Z gingerale joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:45:08Z nowhere_man quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T16:45:33Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:45:36Z o1e9 quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2017-01-31T16:46:33Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T16:46:51Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:49:33Z nowhere_man quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T16:50:24Z manualcrank joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:50:41Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T16:52:54Z pvaneynd quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T16:54:51Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei)
2017-01-31T16:56:27Z jasom: slime is amazing; it makes the vast majority of other debuggers look pitiful.
2017-01-31T16:56:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T16:57:53Z phoe: jasom: people tend not to use it though. it's slimy.
2017-01-31T16:58:06Z azrazalea: Definitely. I constantly miss it since I do ruby(where there is a semi slime mode that is much worse)/javascript for a living.
2017-01-31T16:58:22Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:00:22Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:01:04Z jasom: azrazalea: oh, I don't do ruby, but in my experience trying to explain slime to rubyists one gets a lot of pushback: "I don't use debuggers; if you're stepping through your code you're doing it wrong!"  I'm not sure I even know how to step through code in slime...
2017-01-31T17:02:57Z emerson quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T17:03:24Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:03:54Z _death: try (step (+ (read) (read)))
2017-01-31T17:04:22Z tumdum joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:04:22Z tumdum quit (Changing host)
2017-01-31T17:04:22Z tumdum joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:05:01Z azrazalea: jasom: Yeah, I actually miss being able to step through code well. What rubyists don't tell you is that generally their way of debugging is print statements.
2017-01-31T17:05:13Z azrazalea: I've hooked up gdb to ruby before in order to be able to see what the hell is going on
2017-01-31T17:05:22Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:05:27Z raynold joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:05:37Z emerson quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T17:05:50Z emerson joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:06:09Z jasom: _death: my point was that what a lot of people have in their head of a "debugger" is like the 5 most well known commands of gdb, which has very little overlap with the features I use in slime.
2017-01-31T17:06:25Z azrazalea: Slime is good enough at telling you what is going on by default IMO. Since it has local vars and stuff
2017-01-31T17:06:29Z azrazalea: When an error is raised
2017-01-31T17:06:44Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood)
2017-01-31T17:07:19Z _death: jasom: sure.. I was more interested in alleviating the last remark
2017-01-31T17:07:55Z jasom: _death: when I need to step, I look it up in the docs; I only have maybe a dozen or two commands of slime memorized.
2017-01-31T17:08:28Z _death: jasom: I don't find myself using the stepper either
2017-01-31T17:08:31Z jasom: yeah, the entire call stack being available when a condition is handled is a massive win over throw/catch systems in other languages
2017-01-31T17:08:46Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:08:58Z Lord_of_Life joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:09:11Z jasom: "Now that we've reached someone who can handle the error, we've helpfully discarded all the information you needed to diagnose and resume"
2017-01-31T17:10:01Z dlowe: AFAIK, CL is the only language that does this
2017-01-31T17:10:01Z jasom: such a massively huge win, I'm surprised that all languages with lambdas haven't adopted it.
2017-01-31T17:10:50Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T17:11:09Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:13:06Z jasom: even the javascript Promises API loses out from starting with a throw/catch mentality; If I understand correctly there's no way for the error callback to send the promise to a Fulfilled state, since it's designed to be isomorphic to a try block.
2017-01-31T17:17:26Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T17:17:43Z Bike joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:18:55Z Einwq quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-31T17:19:00Z azrazalea: jasom: Yeah, my understanding of promises matches yours there.
2017-01-31T17:19:56Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-31T17:21:26Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:23:35Z sbodin_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T17:26:39Z Amplituhedron quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-31T17:28:17Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:29:41Z scymtym joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:30:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-31T17:30:26Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:30:31Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:31:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:32:00Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-31T17:35:31Z lambda-smith joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:40:50Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T17:41:08Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:42:12Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:44:28Z vj4 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T17:46:33Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:48:31Z sbodin__ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T17:50:52Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T17:51:37Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T17:52:14Z phoe: I need to take a day off doing CLUS.
2017-01-31T17:52:27Z phoe: Family matters came into account.
2017-01-31T17:53:49Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:54:16Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-31T17:54:17Z azrazalea: phoe: Hope the family matters go well :)
2017-01-31T17:54:38Z SamSkulls joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:54:46Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T17:55:14Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:56:26Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T17:57:49Z sellout- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T17:58:09Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-31T17:58:20Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T18:03:38Z teggi quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-31T18:03:40Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T18:04:19Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:05:20Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:05:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T18:06:31Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:10:27Z _rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:11:12Z m00natic quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T18:13:48Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T18:15:46Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-31T18:16:16Z raynold is now known as CosmicRaynold
2017-01-31T18:16:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-31T18:17:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:18:54Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:20:27Z puchacz joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:20:52Z mvilleneuve left #lisp
2017-01-31T18:21:15Z pjb joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:24:33Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:24:37Z CosmicRaynold is now known as _raynold_
2017-01-31T18:25:01Z Goose_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:27:08Z MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz
2017-01-31T18:28:19Z cgdub joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:28:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T18:29:25Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T18:29:50Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:32:18Z warweasle joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:32:34Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-31T18:33:27Z TruePika is back, just finished reading backlog
2017-01-31T18:33:44Z TruePika: and I guess time to start debugging SBCL problem
2017-01-31T18:34:05Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T18:34:09Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T18:38:20Z TruePika: welp, that isn't promising
2017-01-31T18:38:51Z TruePika: all the documentation I can find on network-based kernel debug needs Win8.1 as the debug target...and it's Win7 which locks up with SBCL
2017-01-31T18:39:31Z RedEight joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:39:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T18:39:57Z grublet joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:40:14Z TruePika: yeah, I can't do anything without getting a USB debug cable
2017-01-31T18:40:25Z TruePika: meh, SBCL is off the table again for now
2017-01-31T18:41:24Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:43:16Z travv0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T18:47:08Z francogrex joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:48:22Z francogrex: hi, a project like this is a lot of work but what's the advantage really: https://github.com/kiselgra/c-mera
2017-01-31T18:49:38Z francogrex: I mean if it was a translator from a regular cl code it would be fine, but why would anyone write something like that (function strcmp ((char *p) (char *q)) -> int ... might as well directly write it in C!
2017-01-31T18:50:18Z skaria quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T18:50:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T18:52:01Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:53:01Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:53:05Z chrisdone joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:54:00Z travv0 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T18:55:18Z jackdaniel: francogrex: macros
2017-01-31T18:55:26Z jackdaniel: C doesn't have proper macros, c-mera helps with that
2017-01-31T18:56:13Z jackdaniel: co you may get rid of the boilerplate
2017-01-31T18:56:59Z TruePika: dang
2017-01-31T18:56:59Z Goose_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-31T18:57:19Z TruePika: SBCL looks like it is killing the Windows kernel, potentially
2017-01-31T18:57:40Z TruePika: I had a PowerShell session open, it died when I tried (+ 2 2)
2017-01-31T18:59:28Z TruePika: but it _might_ be something the compiler does
2017-01-31T18:59:58Z TruePika: since I accidentially did newline instead of close paren, and the lockup happened after I provided the close paren and another newline
2017-01-31T19:00:21Z skaria joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:00:56Z _rumbler31: (handler-case (+ 1 1) (error () (print "error")) (:no-error () (print "no error"))) ccl complains about too many arguments to anonymous function.  am I just dumb?  I'm trying to verify that my usage of handler-case is correct in some code. I expect that the return value of (+ 1 1) will be ignored for the return value in the :no-error clause, but this doesn't even run...
2017-01-31T19:01:09Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:01:24Z [0x8b30cc] joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:01:51Z TruePika: I don't think you need to provide a () for :no-error
2017-01-31T19:02:03Z TruePika: at least, naively
2017-01-31T19:02:06Z [0x8b30cc] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T19:02:19Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:02:34Z TruePika: IIRC the param is the condition signaled, which there won't be if there's no condition
2017-01-31T19:02:37Z Bike: _rumbler31: the no-error clause takes the values of the form as arguments.
2017-01-31T19:03:03Z Bike: you need to specify them in the lambda list and explicitly ignore them if that's what you're doing.
2017-01-31T19:03:28Z TruePika: so (&rest foo) (declare (ignore foo))
2017-01-31T19:03:50Z _rumbler31: ohh....
2017-01-31T19:03:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:03:54Z TruePika: that would theoretically handle any number of return values
2017-01-31T19:04:27Z parjanya: in the Little Schemer it’s mentioned a function lat?, apparently it’s to check if the argument is a list of atoms, but is that part of CL?
2017-01-31T19:05:00Z Bike: nope.
2017-01-31T19:05:01Z TruePika: no
2017-01-31T19:05:14Z Bike: not in scheme either, i do n't think.
2017-01-31T19:05:16Z TruePika: maybe listp
2017-01-31T19:05:29Z TruePika: though that won't check if they're atoms
2017-01-31T19:05:45Z test1600 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:05:52Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:06:01Z TruePika: you'd need something like IIRC (every #'atomp list-to-test)
2017-01-31T19:06:14Z parjanya: how odd... the book gives the idiom for Scheme and Lisp
2017-01-31T19:06:17Z Bike: yeah, lat? is defined on page sixteen
2017-01-31T19:06:21Z _rumbler31: hmm
2017-01-31T19:06:24Z sjl: it's just atom, not atomp (annoyingly)
2017-01-31T19:06:37Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T19:06:44Z TruePika: it's every though, right?
2017-01-31T19:06:55Z parjanya: Bike: hah, I’m on page 15 : o )
2017-01-31T19:06:59Z warweasle quit (Quit: back later I hope)
2017-01-31T19:07:00Z TruePika: I always get the names of those four functions messed up
2017-01-31T19:07:02Z sjl: yeah (every #'atom ...)
2017-01-31T19:07:21Z Bike: there's a lisp definition too. and it's a bit broader than one with every.
2017-01-31T19:07:29Z Bike: wait. no it isn't. nevermind.
2017-01-31T19:07:40Z TruePika wonders if good old CrashOnCtrlScroll will work from a USB keyboard
2017-01-31T19:07:45Z Bike: i thought it handled dotted lists but nah.
2017-01-31T19:07:57Z TruePika: (USB because stupid laptop lacks a scroll lock key)
2017-01-31T19:07:58Z parjanya: thanks guys
2017-01-31T19:08:16Z TruePika: just trying to narrow down what SBCL is breaking
2017-01-31T19:09:27Z TDT joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:10:28Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:10:37Z easye-ipad quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
2017-01-31T19:12:56Z test1600_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:15:59Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T19:16:09Z test1600 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:16:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:16:42Z Guest66974 is now known as pjb
2017-01-31T19:17:05Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:17:24Z lisp99 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:21:26Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:21:42Z gacepa joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:24:22Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:25:10Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:25:21Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:25:29Z TruePika: odd
2017-01-31T19:25:45Z TruePika: I was able to let off (+ 2 2) this time
2017-01-31T19:25:47Z TruePika: but only once
2017-01-31T19:26:04Z TruePika: and USB stops responding when stuff locks up
2017-01-31T19:26:38Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:27:10Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:27:31Z al-damiri quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-31T19:28:20Z cmos joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:29:10Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:29:31Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:29:42Z sjl quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)
2017-01-31T19:30:10Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:31:14Z cmos: anyone have tips with getting cl projects to work with coveralls?
2017-01-31T19:31:44Z cmos: I think I have everything set up as recommended, but travis is failing with "SSL verify error: 20 X509_V_ERR_UNABLE_TO_GET_ISSUER_CERT_LOCALLY"
2017-01-31T19:32:27Z sjl joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:34:32Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:34:33Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:34:39Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:36:55Z rippa quit (Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER)
2017-01-31T19:37:08Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:37:49Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:37:52Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:40:17Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:42:57Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:43:17Z TruePika: so yeah, I'm at a loss as to how I can possibly diagnose this issue with SBCL
2017-01-31T19:43:54Z TruePika: if USB dies (which it does), I have no way to kernel debug
2017-01-31T19:47:41Z TruePika: It would have to be something in the runtime, right?
2017-01-31T19:47:52Z TruePika: C code versus Lisp
2017-01-31T19:49:13Z dlowe: not necessarily.  sbcl doesn't have a runtime like java or python.
2017-01-31T19:49:31Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T19:49:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:50:08Z Whitesquall joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:50:13Z TruePika: dlowe: what is src/runtime then?
2017-01-31T19:50:18Z froggey joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:51:37Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T19:51:45Z fouric: dlowe: isn't there garbage collection stuff though?
2017-01-31T19:52:01Z Baggers joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:52:24Z dlowe: there is, but the C in there is more for interfacing with the OS conveniently than anything else.
2017-01-31T19:52:59Z dlowe: there's a lot of constants, macros, and interfaces in posix and linux that are a pain to pull out without a full C compiler
2017-01-31T19:53:57Z dlowe: but if you, say, read from a file descriptor in lisp, it's lisp code calling the read() syscall directly
2017-01-31T19:55:16Z fouric: oh! neat!
2017-01-31T19:56:14Z quadresce: I'd say the runtime is mostly for dealing with memory, in addition to what dlowe said.
2017-01-31T19:56:32Z quadresce: Your pointer/data locations aren't temporally invariant
2017-01-31T19:56:38Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:56:38Z quadresce: and are managed by the runtime
2017-01-31T19:57:10Z test1600_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:57:10Z TruePika: dang, no Win7 systems we have here have any RS232
2017-01-31T19:57:34Z ryanwatk` joined #lisp
2017-01-31T19:57:45Z TruePika: which pretty much means that there is _no_ way to kernel debug after SBCL
2017-01-31T19:58:24Z TruePika: unless someone has a Win7 box and an XP+ box, both with rs232
2017-01-31T19:58:32Z TruePika: and can reproduce the issue
2017-01-31T19:58:34Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T19:59:45Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:00:20Z ChrisOei joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:00:41Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T20:02:39Z TruePika: jackdaniel: got a response on Launchpad
2017-01-31T20:02:50Z fouric: TruePika: no physical serial ports, or am I misunderstanding the issue?
2017-01-31T20:03:10Z TruePika: fouric: no physical ports, and USB dies
2017-01-31T20:03:12Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:03:20Z fouric: D:
2017-01-31T20:03:21Z fouric: that sucks
2017-01-31T20:03:27Z fouric: and is also...odd, almost?
2017-01-31T20:03:31Z TruePika: those are the only two ways to remote kernel debug on Win7
2017-01-31T20:03:52Z fouric: I just purchased a new-ish (~1 year release date) consumer motherboard and it had a physical COM port
2017-01-31T20:04:05Z TruePika: though, the other systems here actually have a scroll lock key
2017-01-31T20:04:12Z TruePika: these are all laptops
2017-01-31T20:04:50Z fouric: ah, I understand
2017-01-31T20:04:58Z TruePika: so if I can reproduce SBCL lockup, I might be able to CrashOnCtrlScroll (assuming the keyboard is connected via pseudo-PS2)
2017-01-31T20:06:02Z diogo__franco quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-31T20:06:09Z TruePika: this would ofc require me to get permission from the system's owner to intentionally crash it
2017-01-31T20:09:48Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T20:09:54Z ryanwatkins joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:11:26Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:11:33Z ryanwatk` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T20:14:26Z tumdum quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T20:17:40Z Whitesquall quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T20:18:19Z mc40 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:21:58Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T20:23:28Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:24:25Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2017-01-31T20:25:50Z TruePika: jackdaniel: heh, beat me to it, was about to throw a test case onto Gist
2017-01-31T20:28:10Z strelox quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T20:28:26Z maxmaeteling joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:29:40Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T20:30:58Z lambda-smith quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T20:31:06Z ryanwatkins quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T20:31:10Z heurist joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:31:30Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:31:40Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T20:31:41Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:31:54Z cibs joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:33:35Z jerme is now known as jerme_
2017-01-31T20:35:03Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T20:35:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:35:27Z phoe: aaahhh
2017-01-31T20:36:37Z phoe: webdev is... peculiar.
2017-01-31T20:36:41Z phoe: https://i.imgtc.com/kRS3u2X.png
2017-01-31T20:36:58Z phoe: don't mind the misindented code.
2017-01-31T20:37:10Z phoe: that's roughly how I want code examples inside CLUS to look.
2017-01-31T20:37:24Z TruePika: what's the problem?
2017-01-31T20:37:38Z TruePika: or wait, is there a problem?
2017-01-31T20:37:46Z phoe: there's no problem... like, no more
2017-01-31T20:38:01Z phoe: I was having a problem with how to treat return values and output inside code examples
2017-01-31T20:44:34Z ft joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:45:13Z terpri joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:46:34Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T20:46:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:47:19Z jasom: TruePika: I think you can get PCIe RS-232 cards
2017-01-31T20:47:23Z rumbler31 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:48:07Z prole joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:49:21Z mc40 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T20:49:29Z francogrex quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T20:49:48Z _rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T20:50:30Z TruePika: jasom: for a laptop?
2017-01-31T20:50:34Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:50:59Z wooden_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:51:16Z jasom: TruePika: oh, not unless it has an express card slot or equivalent; if it has a mezannine card slot and somewhere to route the cables you *might* be able to get something to work
2017-01-31T20:52:46Z jasom: TruePika: but https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Serial-Cards-Adapters/1-Port-Native-ExpressCard-RS232-Serial-Adapter-16950-UART~EC1S952 if it is one of the few with an express-card slot
2017-01-31T20:53:36Z jasom: and https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Serial-Cards-Adapters/mini-PCI-Express-Parallel-and-Serial-Card-16950-UART~PEX1S1PMINI if you have cable routing and mini PCIe
2017-01-31T20:54:02Z jasom: laptops with removable optical drives can route the ribbon cable through there sometimes
2017-01-31T20:55:23Z TruePika: not sure there are any options, looking at the service manual
2017-01-31T20:55:58Z frodef joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:56:07Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-31T20:56:11Z TruePika: at least, not on here
2017-01-31T20:56:35Z TruePika: I know I won't be able to do hardware modification on another system either, though
2017-01-31T20:56:39Z jasom: mini PCIe is used sometimes for wifi or wlan &c.
2017-01-31T20:57:03Z jasom: but it does involve a screwdriver
2017-01-31T20:57:32Z TruePika: I've opened this up before, why do you think I have a copy of the service manual?
2017-01-31T20:57:37Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T20:57:38Z jasom: oh, good point
2017-01-31T20:57:52Z TruePika: I've replaced the screen, of all thing
2017-01-31T20:57:54Z TruePika: things
2017-01-31T20:58:35Z TruePika: yup, Broadcom 4313GN appears to use mini PCIe
2017-01-31T20:59:07Z TruePika: I'd need to run with back panel off, though
2017-01-31T20:59:22Z TruePika: PDF page 61 at http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c03582006.pdf
2017-01-31T20:59:32Z warweasle joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:02:30Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-31T21:05:24Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T21:09:09Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T21:10:31Z sbodin joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:11:03Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:11:32Z davsebamse quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T21:13:15Z davsebamse joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:16:22Z angavrilov_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T21:16:25Z cmack joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:20:02Z hydan joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:21:32Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-31T21:21:52Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T21:22:28Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T21:24:07Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:24:19Z jasom: TruePika: that may be a half-height mini PCIe, check the dimensions and the clearence with the cover off
2017-01-31T21:24:33Z hydan quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T21:25:06Z jasom: The startech adapter is 2" long, so if you don't have 2" of clearance from the edge connector at the height of the screw standoffs it won't fit
2017-01-31T21:26:04Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:27:13Z jasom: from the picture it looks like the clearence isn't there (assuming the edge connector is next to the RAM; if the edge connector is opposite the RAM, it looks like the DIMM is seated lower and it might work)
2017-01-31T21:28:25Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:28:41Z sirkmatija quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T21:28:49Z sirkmatija joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:29:51Z gacepa quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2017-01-31T21:31:12Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T21:31:33Z maxmaete` joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:31:41Z skaria quit (Quit: Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients)
2017-01-31T21:32:11Z mateuszb_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T21:33:23Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T21:33:25Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:34:39Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:35:18Z maxmaeteling quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T21:37:31Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T21:37:59Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:44:35Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T21:45:00Z EvW1 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:45:32Z BusFacto_ quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2017-01-31T21:46:28Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:47:44Z bugrum joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:47:47Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2017-01-31T21:47:47Z EvW1 is now known as EvW
2017-01-31T21:48:13Z atgreen joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:49:20Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:53:37Z Guest6344 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:53:46Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T21:53:48Z Blkt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T21:53:48Z fe[nl]ix quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T21:54:22Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2017-01-31T21:56:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T21:56:40Z atgreen: After Xach helped me earlier today with the path file extension question, I was able to write the following macro that will load a gpg encoded lisp file (to store sensitive defvars (credentials)), but I don't know enough to know how it could be improved.   feedback welcome : https://paste.fedoraproject.org/541798/99532148/
2017-01-31T21:57:24Z borodust quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T21:57:43Z quadresce joined #lisp
2017-01-31T21:58:26Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:00:44Z axion: There are a few things wrong with it, but I don't see why you didn't write it as a function.
2017-01-31T22:01:02Z prxq joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:01:49Z travv0: just at a glance, why are you doing (not (not ...))?
2017-01-31T22:02:05Z Blkt joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:02:06Z fe[nl]ix joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:02:12Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:02:19Z axion: and also (if x x y)
2017-01-31T22:03:10Z borodust joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:03:12Z quadresce always likes to treat the predicate of IF as a boolean, so you'll see things like (NOT (NULL x)) despite the okayness of generalized booleans.
2017-01-31T22:04:03Z prole quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T22:04:58Z travv0: it just seems like there's not really a readability gain when the function is already called file-exists-p
2017-01-31T22:05:17Z Petit_Dejeuner does what quadresce does, but usually for the return values of functions
2017-01-31T22:05:34Z Bike: that wouldn't really explain not not, since not's argument is a boolean.
2017-01-31T22:05:49Z quadresce: (I have no idea what code you're talking about, but it seemed mildly related.)
2017-01-31T22:05:57Z Bike: and file-exists-p returns a boolean, yeah.
2017-01-31T22:06:06Z axion: atgreen: Also, there's no reason to use cl-fad:file-exists-p
2017-01-31T22:06:55Z travv0: cl-fad:file-exists-p returns a pathname (not that it really matters)
2017-01-31T22:07:23Z quadresce: it's a -p function, which would be good enough for me :]
2017-01-31T22:07:39Z travv0: yep, that was my point about the readability
2017-01-31T22:07:44Z Bike: oh, the docs say it returns a generalized boolean and then that it returns a truename
2017-01-31T22:07:59Z atgreen: ya... cl-fad:file-exists-p returns a path, which I had to not not to get to a t for cond
2017-01-31T22:08:07Z Bike: cond doesn't need a t.
2017-01-31T22:08:14Z axion: As does asdf:file-exists-p
2017-01-31T22:08:38Z travv0: atgreen: anything that's not nil is truthy
2017-01-31T22:08:43Z atgreen: oh... hmm... it didn't seem to work without the t.  I'll try again.
2017-01-31T22:08:47Z quadresce: (cond ((file-exists-p foo) ...) ...) is perfectly sane and readable.
2017-01-31T22:08:51Z Bike: ...but the main thing is probably that this shouldn't be a macro.
2017-01-31T22:09:16Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-31T22:09:23Z atgreen: axion, I wrote it as a macro because I wanted to load relative to the load path of the caller's source file
2017-01-31T22:09:28Z atgreen: is there another way to do that?
2017-01-31T22:09:55Z axion: asdf:system-relative-pathname
2017-01-31T22:10:14Z seg_ joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:10:22Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:10:24Z _death: may want to use native-namestring, and use a run-program variant instead of shell-command so that you don't need to concatenate arguments like that
2017-01-31T22:10:25Z atgreen: axion, but that is relative to what?
2017-01-31T22:10:53Z dddddd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:10:56Z atgreen: I don't want it relative to the source file for the definition of load-encrypted
2017-01-31T22:11:05Z atgreen: I want it relative to the caller's source directory
2017-01-31T22:11:40Z atgreen: so I thought I had to use a macro to get that directory
2017-01-31T22:11:41Z Guest54728 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:11:49Z axion: The function takes a system to be relative to
2017-01-31T22:12:17Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T22:12:32Z travv0: I'm not sure I fully understand what you're trying to do, but couldn't you take the pathname as a parameter?
2017-01-31T22:14:11Z voidlily quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2017-01-31T22:14:23Z atgreen: ok... I want (load-encrypted "credentials/foo.lisp.gpg") to decrypt and load the file credentials/foo.lisp, which is relative to the load path of the calling function
2017-01-31T22:14:25Z atgreen: source
2017-01-31T22:15:20Z atgreen: so, I think a macro is the best solution, because I can determine the caller's location via *load-truename*
2017-01-31T22:16:08Z atgreen: does that explain why I used a macro?
2017-01-31T22:18:18Z _death: can still move most of it to a function.. (defmacro load-encrypted (filename) `(load-encrypted-1 ,filename ,(or *load-truename* "./")))
2017-01-31T22:18:24Z azrazalea: atgreen: Well, I don't -think- *load-truename* will work as desired if you're calling the code from within a lisp image that has been saved then loaded. I also feel like it'd be better to write it as a function taking a full pathname and then the calling code does the *load-truename* part if they wish.
2017-01-31T22:18:52Z azrazalea: Also what _death said. Making less of it a macro
2017-01-31T22:19:11Z moei joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:19:27Z atgreen: ok.  btw, getting rid of not not wored
2017-01-31T22:19:28Z atgreen: worked
2017-01-31T22:20:22Z voidlily joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:21:10Z SamSkulls quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-31T22:21:40Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T22:23:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:25:28Z sirkmatija quit (Quit: sirkmatija)
2017-01-31T22:27:31Z maxmaete` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T22:29:50Z atgreen: thanks for the feedback. improved version: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/541813/48590174/
2017-01-31T22:32:14Z prxq: I know that this is controversial advice here - but if you can, stay away from CL pathnames. They are weird and have fairly crazy failure modes.
2017-01-31T22:32:15Z sellout- quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-31T22:32:24Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T22:33:29Z azrazalea: burn the unbeliever!
2017-01-31T22:33:34Z prxq: what is the value in making load-encrypted a macro?
2017-01-31T22:33:56Z azrazalea: In all honesty, i'd love to hear about those crazy failure modes. I haven't run into them
2017-01-31T22:34:14Z azrazalea: prxq: The *load-truename* bit being relative to the caller not the file the defun is in.
2017-01-31T22:34:32Z azrazalea: atgreen: That can be (or *load-truename* "./")
2017-01-31T22:34:44Z atgreen: prxq, to get the *load-truename* of the caller
2017-01-31T22:35:06Z gigetoo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T22:35:10Z pvaneynd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T22:35:25Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:35:26Z prxq: issues with capitalization, lack of portability, etc.
2017-01-31T22:36:27Z atgreen: azrazalea, fixed the or form - thanks
2017-01-31T22:36:40Z nowhere_man quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T22:39:02Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2017-01-31T22:39:04Z pjb: When you compile a file, *load-truename* is nil.
2017-01-31T22:40:17Z atgreen: I think that's OK
2017-01-31T22:40:33Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T22:41:02Z prxq: atgreen: of which caller? When *load-truename* is evaluated in your macro, the caller (the function where load-encrypted is written in) doesn't even exist :-)
2017-01-31T22:41:36Z pjb: macro are expanded at compilation-time.
2017-01-31T22:41:49Z atgreen: how does 'load' work?  I just want to emulate those semantics
2017-01-31T22:43:15Z pjb: basically, it's a REL (no Print, unless you pass :print t).
2017-01-31T22:43:20Z pjb: clhs load
2017-01-31T22:43:21Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_load.htm
2017-01-31T22:44:29Z Guest54728 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-31T22:44:47Z atgreen: meh .. I think it's fine.  a nil value will translate to cwd anyway in my code.
2017-01-31T22:45:48Z prxq: a nil value at compile-time. If you change it at run time, it will not change the behavior of the compiled code.
2017-01-31T22:45:53Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2017-01-31T22:46:14Z atgreen: yes.. that's fine.
2017-01-31T22:46:47Z nowhere_man joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:47:20Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:49:36Z rtmpdavid joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:50:55Z sellout- joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:52:44Z Guest6344 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2017-01-31T22:53:28Z Guest6344 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:56:08Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T22:57:53Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T22:58:54Z ebzzry joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:01:26Z Baggers quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T23:02:40Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving)
2017-01-31T23:08:26Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2017-01-31T23:09:54Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2017-01-31T23:11:14Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:12:04Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T23:12:10Z voidlily quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T23:15:38Z phoe: So I took a breath from parsing the TeX sources to hack on DokuWiki and I have much nicer CSS styles (oh gods please never again) for displaying printed output and return values.
2017-01-31T23:16:02Z voidlily joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:21:54Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T23:22:46Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T23:23:20Z sdsadsdas quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017-01-31T23:23:34Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:25:33Z sdsadsdas joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:27:07Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:30:55Z shifty joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:32:07Z TikityTik joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:32:15Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T23:32:42Z pvaneynd joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:33:58Z TikityTik: Are questions about programming in racket accepted here?
2017-01-31T23:34:03Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T23:34:24Z TikityTik: I am having trouble trying to make a recursive function as an iterative one
2017-01-31T23:34:26Z pillton: No. This channel is specific to common lisp.
2017-01-31T23:35:08Z pillton: I think there is a #scheme channel.
2017-01-31T23:35:21Z dddddd quit (Quit: Hasta otra..)
2017-01-31T23:35:21Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:35:26Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW)
2017-01-31T23:35:35Z EvW joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:36:16Z PuercoPop: TikityTik: there is also a #racket channel
2017-01-31T23:36:49Z PuercoPop: also racket has iteration constructs like for
2017-01-31T23:40:58Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017-01-31T23:41:26Z lisp99 joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:41:42Z Jesin joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:42:59Z omarkov joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:44:22Z jasom: atgreen: why is load-encrypted a macro?
2017-01-31T23:44:46Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2017-01-31T23:44:50Z axion: This has been answered like 3 times
2017-01-31T23:44:55Z jasom: ah, let me read backlog
2017-01-31T23:45:01Z TikityTik: PuercoPop: I am learning from SICP, not sure if that's common lisp or scheme, but we're using racket for class.
2017-01-31T23:45:29Z TikityTik: haven't read the book, going to, but I mainly learn from lectures
2017-01-31T23:45:54Z TikityTik: so I assume we are learning Lisp
2017-01-31T23:45:56Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:45:57Z Bike: it's scheme.
2017-01-31T23:46:19Z TikityTik: #scheme is dead though :S
2017-01-31T23:46:20Z jasom: atgreen: I have a solution for this now that I see what you're trying to do.
2017-01-31T23:46:26Z Bike: i believe racket has a mode or language or whatever for the scheme in SICP specifically.
2017-01-31T23:46:34Z PuercoPop: TikityTik: it scheme, Racket has a sicp mode. If you go to ##lisp I can help you
2017-01-31T23:46:52Z PuercoPop: yeah neil van dyke's
2017-01-31T23:47:03Z TikityTik: oh didn't realize there were 2 channels
2017-01-31T23:48:00Z omarkov quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2017-01-31T23:48:13Z jasom: (defmacro lisp-file-truename () (or *compile-file-truename* *load-truename*)) ;<-- gets you the truename of the source file
2017-01-31T23:48:23Z manuel_ quit (Quit: manuel_)
2017-01-31T23:50:36Z atgreen: jasom, thanks.  is that guaranteed not to ever be nil?
2017-01-31T23:51:21Z jasom: atgreen: nope, so handling that is a good idea
2017-01-31T23:51:35Z atgreen: (defmacro load-encrypted (filename)
2017-01-31T23:51:35Z atgreen:   `(load-encrypted-1 ,filename ,(or *compile-file-truename* *load-truename* "./")))
2017-01-31T23:51:56Z jasom:  *default-pathname-defaults* is probably better than "./" but yeah
2017-01-31T23:52:30Z TikityTik left #lisp
2017-01-31T23:52:35Z sellout- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2017-01-31T23:52:47Z jasom: or (uiop:getcwd)
2017-01-31T23:55:29Z quadresce quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2017-01-31T23:55:53Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017-01-31T23:56:27Z gigetoo joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:57:56Z cromachina joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:59:06Z Kaisyu joined #lisp
2017-01-31T23:59:16Z atgreen: what is uiop?