00:00:08 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@213.Red-81-32-248.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:06 zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a007:b818:12e7:64e0:f132] has joined #lisp 00:02:14 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:03:14 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFF2B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:03:14 WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 00:03:43 Isabella29 [~Isabella2@37.221.173.229] has joined #lisp 00:04:47 -!- Isabella29 [~Isabella2@37.221.173.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:03 ASau [~user@p54AFE921.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:06:02 -!- juanlas [~jlas@201-23-176-162.gprs.claro.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:06:49 Adlai [~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai] has joined #lisp 00:07:38 Man, metaprogramming in languages that aren't s-expressions sucks. 00:09:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:51 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 00:16:40 vkrest [~vkrest@76.244.38.58] has joined #lisp 00:17:02 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p4FC977C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:17:15 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:50 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 00:18:56 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76.244.38.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:51 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 00:22:00 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:23:08 -!- xenophon [~user@64.124.65.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:23:13 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@g225084098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:25:26 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:26:46 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:17 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 00:28:33 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:03 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:16 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:38:54 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 00:39:14 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:44:12 ldionmarcil [~louis@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 00:44:41 if I got a procedure stored in a variable, how can I call it? 00:45:44 funcall or apply 00:48:55 pbgc [~pbgc@88.214.181.20] has joined #lisp 00:51:14 sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:14 (apply #'(lambda () (message 1))) 00:52:16 shouldnt this work? 00:52:26 no 00:52:36 (funcall (lambda () (message 1))) 00:52:49 or (apply (lambda () (message 1)) ()) 00:53:06 apply takes a list of arguments to pass to the function; no arguments means an empty-list 00:53:23 ah right 00:53:25 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.196.84] has joined #lisp 00:53:27 clhs apply 00:53:27 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 00:53:28 ldionmarcil: and lambda is defined as a macro that expands (lambda () (foo)) into #'(lambda () (foo)) 00:53:44 ldionmarcil: so you can use lambda forms directly, without #' 00:54:02 cool! 00:55:09 furthermore you don't need funcall for lambdas, right? 00:55:18 so you can ((lambda () (message 1))) 00:55:32 which is what LET is based on! 00:56:02 ((lambda (foo) (1+ foo)) 2) 00:56:03 drewc: well, it can be; I bet most implementations don't though 00:56:08 so what if I had a function foobar 00:56:17 I could do (apply #'foobar list of arguments) ? 00:56:32 umm 00:56:33 and that would be like (foobar list of arguments) 00:56:37 yes 00:56:38 ok 00:56:51 jasom: sorry, I keep forgetting that this about common lisp specifically and not LISP in general. 00:57:18 It is true that let can be implemented in terms of other primitives 00:57:33 *drewc* does not talk lisp that often, so gets confused in IRC :P 00:57:50 -!- zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a007:b818:12e7:64e0:f132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:58:38 ldionmarcil: foobar would need to be defined as a function though through flet labels or defun 00:58:44 and if foobar is a variable whose value is a lambda, then (apply foobar list-of-args) 00:58:52 ldionmarcil: since that's what FUNCTION does and #' is shorthand for FUNCTION 01:02:00 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03:16 fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:04:37 -!- patojo [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:10 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:38 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-50-134-206-238.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:06:05 waa_ [~waa@189-11-95-111.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 01:06:43 -!- waa_ is now known as waa 01:08:26 *jasom* is looking for a good macro character for doing shell-command substitution. I'm thinking #! right now. I'm not sure how to delimit the end though 01:09:37 *drewc* is thinking #\Newline, which makes no sense at all 01:09:54 jasom: ˇ, duh 01:11:10 pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 01:11:11 No valid top-level shell command can start with } 01:11:23 which makes me want to use #{ } but some people like to use that for literal hash tables 01:11:44 jasom: use named readtables and do not care? 01:13:59 ooh, that looks nice 01:14:44 Denommus [~AndChat67@179-236-73-78.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 01:14:44 -!- Denommus [~AndChat67@179-236-73-78.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 01:14:44 Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 01:20:29 or I could just require that it be a single posix command 01:20:39 zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-38.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 01:20:40 mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:20:43 then you can #!{ command1; command 2; } 01:20:56 <_death> jasom: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141420 01:20:58 <_death> stuff like that? 01:21:19 yeah 01:22:17 -!- pbgc [~pbgc@88.214.181.20] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 01:23:07 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-38.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:27 -!- mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 01:30:22 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@AAubervilliers-551-1-213-143.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 01:30:35 "sorry we emailed you the mocl source, please delete as we sent to the wrong email" 01:30:37 o|O 01:32:56 zajn [~zajn@dhcp-164-29.ME.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 01:33:57 <_death> by delete I bet they mean share 01:34:04 heh 01:34:12 pasty.lisp? 01:34:30 -!- varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zuijfgnnzoicgjfr] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:34:38 publishing it would be violating their copyright. I'm not sure if they can compel you to delete it though. 01:34:59 <_death> right.. I'd just keep it for educational purposes 01:35:21 Seems like doing anything nefarious with it would be a dick-move regardless of the legalities though. 01:38:18 -!- BlobJoe [~alexandre@pa3-84-90-6-83.netvisao.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:41:20 must have a small customer base 01:41:28 -!- Bicyclidine [45a62f69@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.166.47.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:45:11 -!- chuck54_ [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:46:37 -!- Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:47:16 zajn_ [~zajn@airbears-136-152-18-174.AirBears.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 01:48:14 -!- farhaven_ [~gbe@unobtanium.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:50:32 -!- zajn [~zajn@dhcp-164-29.ME.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:50:36 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:10 CCL is about 2x as fast at starting up from an image as sbcl? 01:52:44 does ccl compress cores? 01:52:48 BlobJoe [~alexandre@pa5-84-91-153-84.netvisao.pt] has joined #lisp 01:52:51 Not sure 01:52:59 This is with compressed cores off in sbcl 01:53:03 oh. 01:53:04 Is *way* slower with compression on 01:53:11 *jaimef* finds ccl much faster than sbcl 01:53:15 (this is also with warm disk cache) 01:53:31 ccl generates images about 1/2 the size of sbcl with compression off 01:54:35 yeap smaller, less memory, and faster... can't figure out why sbcl does not perform better 01:54:57 jaimef: sbcl generates much faster code though 01:55:16 except when sbcl decides to re-compile at run time 01:55:32 *cough* make-instance *cough* 01:56:09 just saying in my limited uses of it 01:56:16 jsonip.org :P 01:56:20 in our project, sbcl 32 bit on windows was twice as fast as ccl 64 bit 01:56:34 osx/linux here 01:56:36 I don't think we've compared speed much in linux, since sbcl is so well supported there 01:56:54 sbcl has faster run-time but slower compile and load time 01:57:00 (that's my experience anyway) 01:57:00 (time (lparallel-benchmark:execute 10)) 01:57:16 and it's about 2x for well optimized code 01:57:20 (run-time that is) 01:57:54 https://gist.github.com/9166457 under sbcl it would drop a lot of connections, and use ~512MB, ccl ~160 and double the performance 01:58:01 OTOH I have a gui written in LTK that is visibly slower in sbcl due to it compiling at run-time for each make-instance call that has unique arguements, which in this cas corresponds to every single widget in the gui. 01:58:02 quit surprised 01:58:31 quite 02:01:53 jaimef: Not sure if this will affect things, but try putting a (declaim (optimize (speed 3))) in that file 02:02:17 jaimef: sbcl cares a lot more about optimization declarations than other free lisps I've used 02:02:49 huge varients in debugability and speed and safety 02:02:54 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-1-111.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:03:05 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 02:03:20 e.g. on default settings it is 100% safe with regards to type declarations; the wrong type will signal an error 02:03:43 Kate30 [~Kate30@37.221.175.38] has joined #lisp 02:04:07 And you can go from all locals, plus their names visible in the stack trace to essentially unusable stack traces by tuning the relationship between speed and debug 02:04:47 -!- Kate30 [~Kate30@37.221.175.38] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:05:08 bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 02:06:14 -!- pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:06:29 -!- pjb [~t@90.24.176.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:08:06 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 02:09:18 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:02 ggkitsas [~ggkitsas@150.140.215.17] has joined #lisp 02:13:10 -!- ldionmarcil [~louis@unaffiliated/maden] has left #lisp 02:14:03 you mean there are other optimization settings other than (speed 3) (debug 0) (safety 0) (space 0) (compilation-speed 0) ? ;-) 02:15:24 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-fhrcnaphrxpnxemp] has joined #lisp 02:15:34 <_death> I use (declaim (optimize (debug 3) (safety 3))) in my development image 02:15:37 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-fhrcnaphrxpnxemp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:15:41 -!- FareWell is now known as Fare 02:15:47 -!- Fare is now known as Guest33618 02:16:01 BrianRice [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:39 -!- Guest33618 [fare@nat/google/x-trujuduwlafpqqoe] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:17:04 FareWell [fare@nat/google/x-eyeuxkutrcynnngs] has joined #lisp 02:21:02 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 02:21:20 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:22:46 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 02:25:26 _death: yeah, I've got (optimize-file), (debug-file), and (slow-body) macros 02:25:44 slow-body being used to muffle SBCL's optimization notes when I know a body is going to be unoptimizable 02:25:48 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has joined #lisp 02:27:11 White_Flame, if you're interested, ASDF badly needs a better way to configure its build, such that these could be specified and/or overridden. 02:28:04 I don't specify filenames in those; I put them at the top of the file 02:28:19 pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 02:28:25 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@182.6.15.109.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:29:59 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:49 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:36:21 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.249.162] has joined #lisp 02:43:12 -!- pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:45:14 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f65496.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:54:04 sellout- [~Adium@c-50-134-206-238.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:39 prxq [~mommer@x2f6d8b9.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 02:57:44 pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 02:58:40 -!- WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has left #lisp 03:05:44 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 03:07:13 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 03:09:18 so it can't be overridden without editing the file. 03:12:09 -!- wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:14:28 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FC93D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:15:37 -!- pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:15:37 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:15:37 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p578FC93D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 03:15:56 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[~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:00 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 03:57:46 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-102-75.w109-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:57:56 Good morning everyone! 04:02:48 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:02:51 -!- ruzu [~quassel@unaffiliated/ruzu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:33 katy30 [~katy30@37.221.175.38] has joined #lisp 04:03:43 beach: morning. 04:03:43 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:03:47 patbarron [~pat@pool-173-75-28-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:47 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:04:05 ruzu [~quassel@cpe-72-179-33-98.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:04:36 -!- katy30 [~katy30@37.221.175.38] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:32 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 04:10:06 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:45 hitecnologys_ [~hitecnolo@178.74.80.142] has joined #lisp 04:11:18 sohail [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 04:11:19 -!- sohail [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 04:11:19 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 04:14:38 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.249.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:18:49 -!- wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:31 wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has joined #lisp 04:28:40 -!- patbarron [~pat@pool-173-75-28-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Exiting HexChat] 04:29:27 KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 04:32:37 -!- Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:35:01 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 04:36:03 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.196.84] has left #lisp 04:36:56 sup beach 04:44:58 nipra [~nipra@122.177.65.38] has joined #lisp 04:45:44 *beach* is not sure whether `sup' is a question or just a greeting. 04:46:13 theos: [assuming it's a question] I am working hard on SICL at the moment. 04:47:31 sup=what is up with you bratha :) 04:47:49 Yeah, thought so. 04:48:04 zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-12.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 04:48:49 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:48:53 this one? http://common-lisp.net/project/sicl/ 04:49:53 https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL 04:50:16 But yeah, it's the same project. 04:50:36 telstar [~telstar@fsf/member/telstar] has joined #lisp 04:50:43 *beach* needs to update that page on cl.net. 04:51:07 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:29 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:53:29 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-upxrahxdhizqpdym] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:53:48 theos: I am working on CLOS at the moment. 04:53:54 MOP and all. 04:56:10 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:07 yea it looks good 04:57:43 Thanks. 04:57:55 As a bi-product, I did this: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/clos-mop.html 04:58:20 It's a much improved HTML version of chapters 5 and 6 of the AMOP. 04:58:40 I use it myself pretty much every day at the moment. 04:59:25 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-youbdbbrrmpocscc] has joined #lisp 05:00:18 thats interesting 05:03:55 pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 05:04:01 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:04:34 -!- bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 05:05:56 CrazyEddy [~metatypic@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has 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ZZZzzz] 05:39:11 Newbie here, can somebody point me to a place where I can get to know the @ operator better? 05:39:35 You mean ,@? 05:39:36 or at least tell me what the name of the operator, action or concept is? 05:39:46 oh, so @ by itself is nothing? 05:39:59 Indeed it is nothing. ,@ is called splice. 05:40:00 clhs , 05:40:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dg.htm 05:40:18 ok well, follow the link to backquote. 05:41:00 hah, ok, I really tought that @ was a standalone idea, thank you very much 05:42:50 Vivitron [~Vivitron@198.199.115.157] has joined #lisp 05:44:28 FareWell: actually, looking at my implementation, at macroexpand time it does check to see if a global is :safe or :fast, overriding the current behavior 05:45:59 (defmacro optimize-file () (case *flag* (:safe `(declaim ...)) ((:fast t) `(declaim ...)))) is all it is 05:49:05 sorry, +flag+, not *flag*, to attempt to get decent compile-time pseudo-guarantees 05:51:23 So, let me get this straight, ,@ is supposed to be used on a list right? I'm saying this because if I do something like: 05:51:23 `(,@(+ 1 2) a b) 05:51:23 I get an error saying 3 is not a list. For some reason tho 05:51:41 `(,@(+ 1 2)) 05:51:41 evaluates to 3 05:51:46 `(,@'(+ 1 2) a b) would yield (+ 1 2 a b) 05:51:56 note that '(+ 1 2) is quoted 05:52:12 yup, that is no surprise, but why does it work with `(,@(+ 1 2))? 05:52:14 comma and ,@ pull you out of a backquote 05:52:16 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-10-69.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:42 because there's nothing after the list to concatenate with 05:52:52 BlobJoe: basically for the same reason (append 3) => 3, i think. 05:53:17 so it doesn't hit any error in that particular case by trying to modify it as a list by appending 05:53:36 sluidfoe [~sluidfoe@66-87-76-186.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:50 Ok, so as there is nothing left in that list the @ just removes the enclosing parentheses and is done? 05:54:57 andreh [~andreh@189.27.17.129.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 05:55:21 I believe you're in unspecified territory. I would not use ,@ with non-lists 05:55:45 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 05:55:53 if a high debug setting is used, I think that a CL would be within the spec to give a type error on you giving a non-list there 05:56:11 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 05:56:45 Ok then, thank you. I understand the operator now and I'll avoid it with non lists 06:00:29 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:01:21 ggole [~ggole@106-68-67-178.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:01:37 and today I learned that ,. is a thing. 06:02:35 oO what is it? 06:02:52 ,@ but allowing the spliced term to be destructively modified 06:03:02 just a single-line mention in http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 06:03:26 ah, interesting. 06:03:40 `(1 ,.'(2 3) ,.'(4 5)), then doing + to show the prior input confirms it 06:04:06 i tried `(,.1) => 1 06:04:15 that was with lispworks :D 06:04:18 Mae24 [~Mae24@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 06:04:24 sdemarre [~serge@118.70-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 06:04:47 and SBCL dies on that, claiming an invalid splice, presumably because it isn't a list 06:05:00 which is like a valid complaint, i'd say 06:05:22 -!- Mae24 [~Mae24@95.141.20.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:05:28 BlobJoe: yeah, it also dies on `(,@1) so there's an example where a scalar fails the splice operation 06:05:34 lispworks' behavior is more like "wat?" 06:05:49 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:07:29 col`n [guardian@124-148-48-93.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:07:32 -!- sluidfoe [~sluidfoe@66-87-76-186.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:08:02 -!- ruzu [~quassel@cpe-72-179-33-98.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 06:08:02 ruzu [~quassel@unaffiliated/ruzu] has joined #lisp 06:09:42 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.60.171] has joined #lisp 06:10:55 tesuji_ [~tesuji@x2f6d63f.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 06:11:17 bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lrialfqdbgnzlbpi] has joined #lisp 06:11:51 -!- tesuji_ [~tesuji@x2f6d63f.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:12:30 tesuji [~tesuji@unaffiliated/tesuji] has joined #lisp 06:13:13 -!- col`n [guardian@124-148-48-93.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 06:16:09 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.60.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:16:42 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:17:17 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:17 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 06:25:26 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 06:29:42 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 06:33:02 -!- BlobJoe [~alexandre@pa5-84-91-153-84.netvisao.pt] has left #lisp 06:40:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-226-66.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:41:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:44:37 -!- tesuji [~tesuji@unaffiliated/tesuji] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:45:39 Kazinator [~kaz@S0106687f7426d0eb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:49 join #c 06:48:16 *Kazinator* changes batteries in the forward slash. 06:54:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:57:24 Davidbrcz [~david@182.6.15.109.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:16 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 07:00:29 speckle [~speckle@c-76-111-8-161.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:35 hi, has anyone used the kernel language? 07:02:09 yes, but this channel is about CL. 07:03:08 Okay. 07:05:07 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 07:08:15 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:04 <|3b|> White_Flame: for extra fun, ., isn't a thing, but does the same thing as ,. in some contexts :) 07:10:32 mean 07:11:32 <|3b|> sort of like how \= is valid but means the opposite of /= 07:14:08 <|3b|> i've seen ., in actual code though, so not just a curiosity 07:15:46 *|3b|* hopes nobody would intentionally use \= 07:16:21 pretty sure I've used . , but not ., 07:16:28 for as much difference as that makes 07:16:42 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:16:57 <|3b|> yeah, . , is a more reasonable way to write it 07:17:37 -!- pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:20:13 (\/\= 1 2) -> t, naturally 07:20:53 the special squiggle-equals operator 07:25:23 -!- telstar [~telstar@fsf/member/telstar] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:25:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-89.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:26:14 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:27:11 approaching B1FFspeak: (|\/||\=| 1 2) -> t 07:31:15 that works? isn't the \ escaped? 07:31:26 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:18 nope, || explicitly says macro characters are interpreted 07:33:35 huh. 07:33:50 well, implicitly actually, looking back at it 07:33:56 pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 07:34:09 <|3b|> no, \ is part of the || syntax 07:35:00 "Any single escape and multiple escape characters that are to appear in the sequence must be preceded by a single escape character." 07:35:01 minion: clhs 2.2 07:35:01 does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 07:35:23 clhs 2.2 07:35:23 Reader Algorithm: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_b.htm 07:35:38 Bike: step 6 into step 9 07:36:37 <|3b|> yeah, i suppose "\ and || are part of the general reader syntax"would be better phrasing 07:37:25 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-179-183.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:37:43 time to name some variables |\|||\|| 07:38:00 <|3b|> || is a good name too 07:38:47 *|3b|* always has a tough time deciding whether to use that for a lisp name corresponding to the C || operator 07:40:55 White_Flame: macro character is the wrong thing to describe \ in this context; macro characters explicitly not dispatched on from within a multiple escape. What matters is that it has syntax type single escape 07:42:17 true, single escape actually isn't a macro character 07:50:55 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-196-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:54:19 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@182.6.15.109.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:55:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:57:26 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 07:59:05 -!- waa [~waa@189-11-95-111.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03:55 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:03:59 Barbara29 [~Barbara29@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 08:04:51 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:32:562a:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 08:05:03 -!- Barbara29 [~Barbara29@95.141.20.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:20 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.203.108] has joined #lisp 08:08:23 -!- andreh 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[~robert@546A70B0.cm-12-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 10:46:58 -!- r0b1 [~robert@546A70B0.cm-12-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Changing host] 10:46:59 r0b1 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 11:00:36 therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has joined #lisp 11:02:59 francogrex [~user@240.123-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 11:04:41 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li350-154.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:00 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li350-154.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:05:48 -!- zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-188-108-130-156.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 11:06:15 varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jmouknsbnxhpbvrl] has joined #lisp 11:06:21 dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@cpc3-finc13-2-0-cust253.4-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:40 is there an sbcl equivalent to the ccl "ff-call entrypoint {arg-type-keyword arg}* &optional result-type-keyword" which calls the foreign function at address entrypoint passing the values of each arg as a foreign argument of type indicated by the corresponding arg-type-keyword... ? 11:06:49 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 11:08:20 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:09:30 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:20 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@li350-154.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:10:25 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li350-154.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:12:06 expez- [~expez@cm-84.215.102.143.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 11:12:10 -!- expez- [~expez@cm-84.215.102.143.getinternet.no] has left #lisp 11:14:01 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:16:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:18:41 chuck54_ [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined 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[~user@240.123-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 12:19:41 / 12:22:25 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d8158ae.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:25:00 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:28:07 drdo [~drdo@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has joined #lisp 12:28:12 zickzackv [~faot@p4FC977C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:28:43 askatasuna [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has joined #lisp 12:34:28 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 12:42:24 francogrex: don't use sbcl equivalents, use CFFI! 12:43:08 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:29 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:46:44 |3b|: you can define a reader macro #\| to either avoid escaping entirely, or special case || vs. |x||y| or ||xy. 12:49:11 |3b|: an alternative would be to use  12:49:53 -!- chuck54_ [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:50:56 chuck54_ [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:58 slacko25328 [~root@dslb-092-075-090-148.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:17 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-24-131.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:53:19 -!- slacko25328 [~root@dslb-092-075-090-148.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:57:14 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:20 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p4FC977C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:07:35 andreh [~andreh@189.27.17.129.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 13:08:13 pjb: I use cffi, I know we have been into this before but it intrigues me to find the equivalent... it's not for a practical purpose it's for research, knowledge and understanding 13:08:57 francogrex: then I use cffi to learn this kind of things. 13:09:22 plugging though cffi I could find its equivalents in clisp and ccl ... however sbcl's intercaing with cffi is more contorted! 13:09:38 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC79F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:10:00 interfacing... for example no way did i find a equivalent for ccfi's foreign-funcall-pointer in sbcl 13:10:24 (macroexpand '(cffi:%foreign-funcall 'fun 1 2 3)) 13:12:19 (macroexpand '(cffi::%foreign-funcall 'fun (:int 1 :int 2 :int 3))) actually 13:12:32 ok: (ALIEN-FUNCALL (EXTERN-ALIEN 'FUN #'VOID)) but (macroexpand '(cffi::%foreign-funcall-pointer 'fun 1)) wow too complex 13:12:51 however it's the clue that i was looking for thanks 13:13:02 It's an internal macro that stores the knowledge about the underlying FFI. 13:13:12 You would just call (fun 1 2 3) in actual use. 13:13:19 after a defcfun 13:13:49 A lot of knowledge is stored in lisp libraries. 13:14:03 indeed a lot to learn from 13:15:13 -!- andreh [~andreh@189.27.17.129.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:16:12 (macroexpand '(CFFI-SYS:%FOREIGN-FUNCALL-POINTER 'POINTER (:INT #:G669 :INT #:G670 :INT) :CONVENTION :CDECL)) 13:18:13 -!- Petit_Dejeuner__ [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:18:52 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-1-111.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:41 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 13:22:53 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9ED97.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:07 -!- round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:34:16 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-032-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:38 samebchase [~samuel@codesurfers.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:27 -!- francogrex [~user@240.123-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40:24 -!- FareWell [fare@nat/google/x-eyeuxkutrcynnngs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:41:13 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:20 jlg [~jl@41.141.60.215] has joined #lisp 13:43:33 morn 13:43:36 pjb [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-1-111.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:43:45 hello jlg 13:43:59 -!- pjb is now known as Guest12302 13:44:39 -!- Guest12302 is now known as pjb` 13:44:50 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 13:49:46 -!- therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:50:46 cell [cell@188.226.147.61] has joined #lisp 13:51:24 therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has joined #lisp 13:52:50 FareWell [fare@nat/google/x-ywmfvhwcaqdthdzv] has joined #lisp 13:53:01 -!- sdemarre [~serge@118.70-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:59:10 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:48 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:33 -!- Nizumzen 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has joined #lisp 14:56:34 fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:58:05 Is it safe to have both read and write handlers set for one socket in iolib at the same time? 15:01:42 Well, the actual question is: will it cause any performance problems? 15:02:57 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:48 zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 15:14:37 -!- keen__ [~blackened@p3b931134.wmaxuq00.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:20:01 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 15:20:25 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 15:25:45 Petit_Dejeuner [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:30:19 keen__ [~blackened@pd2ae2028.wmaxuq00.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:34:41 hitecnologys: when I used it, I didn't have any problem with it, but then, I didn't really test it heavily. 15:34:50 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-123.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:56 hitecnologys: the underlying mechanism is select/poll, so there shouldn't be any performance problem, on the contrary. 15:36:30 araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has joined #lisp 15:36:30 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has quit [Changing host] 15:36:30 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 15:41:15 pjb: OK, thanks. 15:41:32 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:13 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:44:11 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:58 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:52:39 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:43 -!- `JRG [c209f2f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.9.242.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:52:54 joe9 [~user@ip24-255-250-24.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:35 zophy [~sy@host-49-142-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:43 -!- joe9 [~user@ip24-255-250-24.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:12 joe9 [~user@ip24-255-250-24.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:58 MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:58:43 splittist [uid17737@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aybbitshzkbbihox] has joined #lisp 15:59:02 morning 15:59:50 -!- joe9 [~user@ip24-255-250-24.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:14 joe9 [~user@ip24-255-250-24.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:14 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:02:00 -!- joe9 [~user@ip24-255-250-24.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:54 araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has joined #lisp 16:02:54 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has quit [Changing host] 16:02:54 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 16:03:43 Nicole25 [~Nicole25@37.221.173.229] has joined #lisp 16:03:58 joe9 [~user@ip24-255-250-24.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:59 -!- Nicole25 [~Nicole25@37.221.173.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:42 morning nr.1 talker! 16:05:43 -!- joe9 [~user@ip24-255-250-24.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:48 lol :) 16:09:04 Mandus [~aasmundo@ii181070.directconnect.no] has joined #lisp 16:19:32 -!- CrazyEddy [~metatypic@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:21:35 Hello 16:23:04 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:08 k-stz [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-006.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:27:06 normanrichards [~textual@107.107.191.119] has joined #lisp 16:27:16 -!- normanrichards [~textual@107.107.191.119] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:28:29 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:43 normanrichards [~textual@107.107.191.119] has joined #lisp 16:29:28 Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 16:32:37 -!- KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:33:22 not too much 16:34:23 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:35:39 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 16:39:22 a perverse thought: i wonder if one might implement a metaclass that gets you defstruct like performance 16:39:36 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:39:56 there is structure-class... 16:40:56 urandom__ [~user@p20030056C87CC0143E970EFFFE524478.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:42:37 i've never used that directly, i wonder if defmethod and accessors are all faster if I do 16:45:30 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:20 ha, you can use with-slots on a struct 16:46:28 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 16:47:04 accessors probably will be, but why would methods be faster 16:48:03 Abby23 [~Abby23@37.221.173.229] has joined #lisp 16:48:19 yakov [~ysz@194.186.220.121] has joined #lisp 16:49:06 -!- Abby23 [~Abby23@37.221.173.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:08 Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:50:17 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:51:25 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:56 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:52:44 i wonder if the whole 4.3.6 Redefining Classes stuff works on structs 16:53:48 Nope. 16:54:49 good :) 16:59:20 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:02:45 disassembly leaves me thinking slot-value is still slower than using the defstruct generated accessors, even if declare for speed 17:03:37 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:04:50 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:51 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 17:04:52 fasmos [~javiercha@190.16.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:05:26 IIRC slot-value on structure slots is not portable 17:06:03 hello 17:07:34 -!- fasmos [~javiercha@190.16.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 17:08:42 bhyde: well, you can define :after methods or just redefine the whole thing. can't do that with accessors. 17:11:45 my perverse idea, a metaclass that says "be defstruct" like, is intended to allow me to take code that is using defclass and nudge it toward the performance of defstruct. That a struct is a class is cool, but that's more a delightful trick to get some clos functionallity added to structs. 17:12:05 -!- chuck54_ [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:06 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:12:24 bhyde: Have you read the Henry Baker article on "CLOStrophobia"? 17:13:25 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:01 -!- zophy [~sy@host-49-142-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:14:09 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:50 nyef: nope 17:16:36 The synopsis suggests it's going to teach me what I already know, that CLOS is wonderful and generally you don't need to worry about it. :) 17:18:42 didn't baker not like clos? i forget 17:20:22 TLDR - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.39.4040&rep=rep1&type=pdfhttp://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.39.4040&rep=rep1&type=pdf 17:20:52 why did that happen? http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.39.4040&rep=rep1&type=pdf 17:21:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:25:05 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:17 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 17:26:17 -!- yakov [~ysz@194.186.220.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:06 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 17:27:46 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 17:29:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:30:15 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:33:05 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:34:33 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5057:ae50:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:52 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:40:12 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:41:05 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:06 knob [~knob@66-50-172-233.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:45 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 17:43:30 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 17:50:27 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:52:25 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:52:28 fasmos [~javiercha@190.16.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:56:48 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:59:05 yakov [~ysz@89.163.1.125] has joined #lisp 18:01:09 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.253] has joined #lisp 18:01:47 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:05 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:31 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:12:06 sigjuice [~sigjuice@192.241.139.168] has joined #lisp 18:12:34 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:00 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:15 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14:53 -!- yakov [~ysz@89.163.1.125] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:16:44 Tw33k [~John@204.152.38.170] has joined #lisp 18:17:29 -!- Tw33k [~John@204.152.38.170] has left #lisp 18:18:39 jpfuente_ [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:01 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:20:52 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:23:26 fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:23:33 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:01 bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 18:25:27 BlobJoe [~alexandre@pa3-84-90-6-83.netvisao.pt] has joined #lisp 18:26:43 I have a question, can a lisp program run standalone, as in independent of an interpreter, or is it strictly interpreted? 18:27:35 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:52 BlobJoe, it can, depending on the implementation. 18:28:11 BlobJoe: Most implementations these days actually compile to machine code. 18:28:36 (or java classes in case of ABCL) 18:28:52 so there are asm compilers for lisp right? 18:29:01 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 18:29:14 asm compilers? 18:29:23 as in lisp -> assembly 18:29:29 just like a C compiler 18:29:44 BlobJoe: Try: (disassemble 'some-function) 18:29:45 yeah. 18:30:18 think of lisp as a multipradigm language, like c++. it probably does whatever you imagine it should be able to. 18:30:22 plus, it is interpreted too! 18:30:27 much wow, right? 18:31:55 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:40 BlobJoe: another thing will be linking the generated machine code and creating an executable  most standalone lisp programs will include the compiler/runtime anyway. 18:33:38 BlobJoe: So do not expect a static C-like executable in everyday use. 18:34:20 But yeah, you can still expect/get some very high-quality compiled code. 18:34:30 shake that tree! 18:34:52 ah, ok, so it is kind of like interpreted-ish compiled-ish? I'll "always" need an interpreter right? 18:34:57 Yeah, except that none of the open-source/free compilers have a treeshaker. 18:35:04 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:17 or most of the times I mean 18:35:21 antoszka: Sounds like an opportunity! 18:35:27 BlobJoe: Not an interpreter, but a compiler. 18:35:32 nyef: If I had another life :) 18:35:36 -!- normanrichards [~textual@107.107.191.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:35:53 BlobJoe, if you need to deploy an app with an interpreted environment? bam! want a standalone compiled executable? Bam! 18:35:58 right there. choices. 18:36:37 wait, but if I have only a compiler then nothing to link it I'll need the interpreter still for running what I compiled right? Or am I misunderstanding something here? 18:37:25 if you want blobjoeapp.exe, you can have one. 18:37:43 if you want blobjoeapp.lisp running on yourlisp.exe, voila! 18:37:46 choice. 18:37:53 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 18:38:07 ok then, good to know. 18:38:37 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:38 The reason why I'm asking is because I don't know if I'm doing this right: I'm using Clozure CL and each time I tell it to evaluate a lisp file, after the evaluation it goes straight to the REPL, so I had to make a wrapper of my CCL executable to basically do (progn (load "myfile.lisp") (ccl::quit)). Is this normal in most interpreters or am I missing something here? 18:41:09 <|3b|> BlobJoe: CL implementations tend to include a runtime and standard library in the binary, whether they are compiled or interpreted or somewhere in between 18:41:24 That's fairly normal if you're trying to run from a command line, though most development is done interactively with a running system. 18:42:06 <|3b|> and 'interpreter' isn't really the right word, since some implementations compile what you enter into the repl too 18:42:34 Ok thank you very much everyone. 18:42:59 <|3b|> but even interpreted implementations can bundle the runtime + code into a standalone executable 18:43:38 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:23 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:48:13 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:49:34 yakov [~ysz@95-27-70-148.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:54:49 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55:06 pnpuff [~InGaAsP@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:56:20 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-172-233.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:56:32 -!- pnpuff [~InGaAsP@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:57:51 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:26 xcc [~bosnevi@cable-146-255-152-38.dynamic.telemach.ba] has joined #lisp 19:00:15 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:49 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:25 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:00 alezost [~user@128-70-206-28.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:05:52 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-10-69.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:04 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:07 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:17:09 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 19:17:23 -!- fasmos [~javiercha@190.16.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:32 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 19:18:45 WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 19:18:49 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:20:25 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:20:51 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:21:00 mengde [~mengde@catv-213-222-143-170.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:22:18 BlobJoe: you can instead use: ccl --no-init --batch < yourfile.lisp 19:22:25 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:40 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:22:51 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 19:23:36 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:11 rvchangue_ [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-007-207.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:26 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:27:27 -!- rvchangue_ is now known as rvchangue 19:27:27 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-007-207.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:27:27 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 19:27:42 -!- yakov [~ysz@95-27-70-148.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:29:42 farhaven_ [~gbe@unobtanium.de] has joined #lisp 19:30:09 skyLibrary [uid14629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-urksimqzyfmxbmsm] has joined #lisp 19:31:33 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-102-75.w109-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 19:31:54 -!- genericus [~generic@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: genericus] 19:38:29 zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-188-108-130-156.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:26 -!- jpfuente_ [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 19:41:46 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 19:41:50 -!- mengde [~mengde@catv-213-222-143-170.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 19:43:35 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-196-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:45:33 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:17 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-141-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:28 nha [~prefect@koln-5d8158ae.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:02 -!- tesuji [~tesuji@unaffiliated/tesuji] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:55:08 pjb: you around, I have a portability question for you if yes? ;-) 19:55:19 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:34 specifically, is there a portable way to know the current internal encoding for characters? 19:55:34 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 19:55:54 (the goal being to setup the charset used on the protocol with MySQL so as to avoid any conversion) 19:57:12 (it seems to be e.g. sb-impl::*default-external-format* for SBCL 19:57:37 dim: No, there isn't. An implementation has a very free hand there. Just consider SBCL's STRING vs. BASE-STRING on both unicode and non-unicode builds. 19:59:35 I meant maybe more like a trivial-charset lib 20:00:16 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 20:01:02 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01:02 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 20:01:02 -!- wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01:35 zimmerma` [~user@178-24-50-233-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:48 LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has joined #lisp 20:02:01 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d8158ae.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:02:12 -!- zimmerma` is now known as zimmermann 20:02:29 wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has joined #lisp 20:02:47 I didn't find how to know about the current character encoding in CCL the other day for example 20:02:50 Adlai [~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:03:19 Tiffany24 [~Tiffany24@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 20:03:57 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:04:15 ok CCL:*DEFAULT-SOCKET-CHARACTER-ENCODING* is what I need here 20:04:21 The default, default character encoding is NIL which is a synonym for :ISO-8859-1. 20:04:33 -!- Tiffany24 [~Tiffany24@95.141.20.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:53 now, could I restrict Qmynd to SBCL/CCL only, baring future patches? 20:05:11 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:14 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-67-178.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:14:40 k-stz` [~user@HSI-KBW-046-005-017-215.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:35 k-stz`` [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-006.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:35 -!- k-stz` [~user@HSI-KBW-046-005-017-215.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:38 -!- k-stz [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-006.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:39 -!- k-stz`` [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-006.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:55 k-stz``` [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-006.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:16:56 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 20:16:56 -!- k-stz``` [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-006.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:09 k-stz``` [~user@HSI-KBW-046-005-017-215.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:18:19 k-stz```` [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-006.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:19:16 MoALTz_ [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:20:58 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:22:05 -!- k-stz``` [~user@HSI-KBW-046-005-017-215.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:22:10 actually those are not even what I want to know 20:22:23 given a hunchentoot easy-acceptor, how can i check if it's running? 20:22:27 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:22:39 nicdev: Use curl? 20:22:58 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-242-78-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:24:43 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:46 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 20:27:59 nicdev: what's "it" in your question? 20:28:35 *nyef* was presuming "the given hunchentoot easy-acceptor". 20:28:40 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 20:28:57 Malice [~Malice@94-229-220-135.static.espol.com.pl] has joined #lisp 20:29:16 bhyde: i want to pass an easy-acceptor to start or stop but i want to do it if it's only running/not running 20:29:42 s/easy-acceptor/easy-acceptor instance 20:30:33 No, no... You were right the first time. 20:33:26 nicdev: i'd advise reading the doc for the slots on acceptor and the stop method's doc 20:33:33 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:11 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:34:12 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-23-89.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:05 let me do that! thanks bhyde 20:36:23 nicdev: i doubt this code is particular awesome, but here's how I do it - https://github.com/bhyde/heroku-buildpack-ccl64-example1/blob/master/main.lisp#L25 20:36:40 i just keep the running acceptor in a global, and stop it if i need to restart 20:37:35 i probably ought to shift nil into the global as I stop it 20:37:52 -!- WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has left #lisp 20:41:01 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:05 Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:41:26 -!- nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:30 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 20:42:37 Davidbrcz [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 20:43:17 so actually, is there a way to know the internal encoding of a CL? I want to setup the client_encoding or character_set_results is a way that incurs not re-encoding when the bytes arrive in lisp 20:44:04 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:44:27 read the documentation? 20:44:38 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:52 you imply that there's no way to change it from my CL code, nor that it will change much often from a version or platform to the next? 20:45:13 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:45:37 Again, consider SBCL strings: On a non-unicode build they are 8-bit characters that are presumed to be... what? latin-1, I think? 20:46:01 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 20:46:04 context: talking to MySQL and PostgreSQL, I want to set the connection charsets correctly so that no double-encoding bug occur, and so that there's no CPU burnt for re-encoding anywhere, if possible 20:46:04 And on a unicode build you have two string formats, one of which is an 8-bit format that is, IIRC, restricted to 7-bit ASCII and one of which is a 32-bit format. 20:46:50 nyef: so, how do I know what to ask to PostgreSQL, say (that's the client_encoding there), so that bytes are received with the right current internal encoding? 20:47:12 What exactly do you mean "internal encoding" :) The subtype character used in base-string? The encoding used on *terminal-io*? 20:47:13 or maybe I do need to match against the :DEFAULT external encoding, it's unclear to me 20:47:24 You'd know /a priori/. 20:47:29 bhyde: socket, here (could be unix domain socket tho) 20:47:37 Assuming that PostgreSQL even supports such a format. 20:47:57 Otherwise, take your lumps, and do a transcode. 20:47:57 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:48:10 and burn cycles, yeah 20:48:11 And use a unicode format for your transcode. 20:48:51 yeah, SET client_encoding to UTF8; works very well 20:48:52 Your next option is to work with binary blobs instead of strings. If you're working with an FFI or a wire encoding, that's still an option. 20:49:07 wire encoding, but I then need to process the strings 20:49:33 One thing that bugs me about PostgreSQL is that it keeps claiming that 0x00 isn't a valid UTF-8 encoded byte, when it seems to me that NUL really should be a valid character. 20:49:40 well not in the Qmynd driver (for MySQL), but in the application yes (pgloader converts data from MySQL to PostgreSQL) 20:50:37 well yes 0x0 isn't allowed in a PostgreSQL string because it's written in C with standard libc string manipulation routines at heart 20:52:30 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9ED97.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:56 I should maybe just make a unicode stream for hosting the socket communication to/from MySQL in the qmynd driver and call it a day 20:55:07 tmh_ [~e@unaffiliated/tmh/x-0013998] has joined #lisp 20:55:12 (then of course for the communication to actually happen in unicode) 20:55:23 and by unicode I think I mean utf-8 here. 20:56:54 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-96-253-99-113.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 20:59:08 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: brb] 21:01:00 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 21:01:37 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:01:53 do lispers prefer to use yaml/xml/json, or do lispers prefer to do the same thing with s-exprs? 21:02:31 I'm a huge fan of JSON at this point. 21:03:04 And my current preferred JSON library is ST-JSON, though I might try my hand at writing my own in the future, as I'm not a huge fan of how ST-JSON does a few things. 21:04:54 Interesting 21:05:33 I mean, I kind of assumed that lispers would take advantage of homoiconicity and just put everything in parentheses 21:05:34 nyef: which other did you try before? cl-json? yason? 21:05:59 speckle: I like to use read and print to (un)marshal things yes 21:06:14 it depends if you want your users to edit the setup 21:06:22 speckle: I have an interoperability concern: I'm writing web services to be accessed from iOS, Android, PHP, Ruby... 21:06:38 I mean, you can do something similar to JSON with parentheses, right? JSON derives from JS's syntax, while Lisps has always had something similar with parentheses instead 21:06:55 Ah, so the only reason not to use parentheses here is interop 21:06:56 dim: I think I looked a couple, and there was a review of libraries at one point after I had made my choice, but this was years ago now. 21:07:21 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:01 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:17:17 speckle: we aren't religious about that, we use sexpr where they make sense and they make sense for lots of thing; but lots of things are represented in other ways. the rumor that common lisp hasn't much syntax is false, we just spend our syntax dollars differently, more wisely :) 21:17:20 zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-143.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:18:08 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 21:18:10 you aren't religious but I am, I just understood the power of homoiconicity and parens a few weeks ago 21:18:27 I'm a born-again s-exprer, though not necessarily religious towards CL in particular 21:18:31 Well, hopefully you'll get over it soon, then. d-: 21:18:36 I like using different formats for things because it gives them a clear purpose. JSON is good for config files as it's easy to understand and doesn't bring much baggage. 21:19:13 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5057:ae50:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 21:19:13 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:18 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:19:22 Now, I use JSON for config files, but I'm not sure that I'd agree that it's GOOD in that role, largely due to a lack of comments in the format. 21:20:24 now, XML is an ugly wet mess (as in not DRY), and YAML is confusing and unpopular 21:20:58 It's really frustrating that they didn't go with the syntax for closing XML tags 21:21:13 Even that would have been better than putting each tag name twice 21:21:52 maybe someone just needs to make an XML IDE with autocomplete, or something 21:22:07 My sardonic joke: For years we thought that maybe the parens were the problem, but then XML showed that we just hadn't gone far enough. 21:22:46 Hahah 21:24:43 YAML is a pretty good lite config file notation 21:25:13 speckle: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_use_Emacs_for_XML_editing 21:25:40 Hmm. In general, it seems like Lispers prefer emacs over vim, thanks to SLIME and friends 21:27:27 and the fact, that emacs is largely written in a lisp dialect :) 21:27:59 speck: i just typed "emacs xml auto complete" into duckduckgo.com and got this. try the same with google, using the schema for autocompletion is pretty straight forward... 21:28:13 s/google/vim 21:31:08 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:52 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 21:38:19 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:39:22 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 21:40:16 <|3b|> speckle: also, keep in mind you might want to avoid parsing s-exp data directly with the built-in CL reader for the same sort of reasons you don't parse json with eval in js, and once you need to write a separate parser it stops having as much advantage over json or whaveter 21:40:32 right, I've been thinking about that 21:40:58 it gets more complicated if you want to "embed" scripts inside your main program, while restricting their power 21:41:02 rather than just data 21:44:59 I was thinking the power of s-expr is more indirect, by virtue of homoiconicity's effect on refactoring, but maybe that's just an ideal from not having written enough Lisp yet 21:45:18 I might have found the qmynd encoding bug ;-) 21:46:51 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:56 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 21:47:20 Adlai [~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai] has joined #lisp 21:50:42 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-206-28.broadband.corbina.ru] has left #lisp 21:53:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-242.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:07 kobain_ [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 21:56:15 dim: congrats 21:56:29 well it's not that easy 21:56:35 why do I *keep* finding new bugs in uiop/pathname??? Can't the horror stop? 21:56:40 FareWell: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/charset-connection.html 21:57:05 and oh, SCL doesn't like running run-program within with-current-directory. Don't ask me why. 21:57:12 the qmynd driver sets the MySQL connection's charset to what the server sayth in the first handshake packet, then sends that back in the answer 21:57:24 is that bad? 21:57:31 but actually MySQL expects the answer to specify whatever the client wants to use as a charset 21:57:45 so we should just ignore the server's default setting and hard code that we want utf8 21:58:03 FareWell: i'm not sure but i have the suspicion that some temporary pathnames are generated which don't fit or so.... 21:58:06 that works 21:58:12 after that, it seems that character_set_results needs to be forced (to null) to avoid other double-encoding bugs 21:58:21 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 21:58:54 or and encoding issue you mean ? 21:59:21 Douglas Crosher seems to have other fish to fry, anyway. Can we declare SCL, GCL as dead as XCL, CormanLisp, Genera? 22:00:31 GCL wasn't declared deader than dead? 22:00:53 p_l: it had a brief surge recently. It's only mostly dea. 22:00:54 it's not even unicode aware..... 22:00:56 mostly dead. 22:01:21 p_l: it was. Then suddenly, a shadow passed and the earth trembled. And GCL CVS started to get commits. 22:02:23 gcl moved to git 22:02:31 that happened later. 22:02:58 anyway, the code base is butt-ugly. 22:05:58 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:56 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-98-248-40-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:59 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-98-248-40-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:06:59 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 22:08:31 -!- zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-188-108-130-156.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:08:59 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 22:09:29 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 22:11:42 -!- kobain_ [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:11:55 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 22:13:23 damn it. character_set_results = null provides the wanted behavior but loses the encoding meta-data that we need to decide if the value is a text or a blob. 22:13:29 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5057:ae50:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:16:48 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:17:09 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 22:17:28 montagsoup [~montagsou@c-50-160-42-188.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:05 -!- montagsoup [~montagsou@c-50-160-42-188.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:20:33 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC79F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 22:27:49 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 22:28:49 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:29:02 wow, (member 63 '(+mysql-cs-coll-utf8-binary+ +mysql-cs-coll-ascii-binary+ +mysql-cs-coll-binary+) :test #'=) fails (Argument Y is not a NUMBER: +MYSQL-CS-COLL-UTF8-BINARY+) where we have (defconstant +mysql-cs-coll-utf8-binary+ 83) and the like 22:29:08 what's the proper way around that? 22:29:16 #. +mysql-cs-coll-utf8-binary+ maybe/ 22:29:23 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:29:37 dim: don't quote it...? 22:30:03 oh. 22:30:04 thanks 22:30:21 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:30 this code has been buggy for so long then 22:33:58 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:37:06 hahaha 22:37:07 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:17 Alfr [~Unknown@g225182245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:39:10 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:46 now, how do I convince MySQL to send me the results in utf8 and apply the right conversion when it's stored in latin1? 22:41:33 I don't think Andr\\303\\203\\302\\251 is the right utf8 for André when stored in latin1, you see 22:41:54 the infamous AndrĂ© encoding is quite hard to swallow, MySQL. 22:42:32 looks fugly. 22:44:41 ahh, the infamous "let's have three different encoding involved in every operation" issue 22:45:07 I think it's more than that with MySQL, but yeah 22:51:08 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-143.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:13 dim: wonderful 22:51:21 reminds me of oracle. 22:51:38 oh wait, MySQL is now owned by Oracle. That explains a lot. 22:51:55 used not to be, MySQL dug its own situation all by itself 22:51:56 FareWell: I think MySQL got it worse than oracle (or DB2), and it's hilariously bad since 3.23 22:52:04 reading the MySQL docs makes me want to cry each time 22:52:18 dim: *old* docs are even funnier 22:52:35 once I began reading code, it was much worse quality than docs 22:52:42 I wonder why I even try 22:52:45 "FOREIGN KEY statements are ignored, as they are mostly used to draw pretty diagrams in ODBC applications anyway" 22:53:01 *dim* should swallow it and get back to the cl-mysql driver, based on the C lib, and call it a day 22:53:05 ^ core of FOREIGN KEY docs in MySQL 3.23 22:53:21 yeah they don't know what they're doing 22:53:46 about encoding, my guess is that they added options until users stopped complaining 22:54:11 and users had to stop complaining if they wanted to know which knob to turn 22:54:49 dim: there's encoding for connection, for database, for I think individual tables, I suspect there's at least one other point of translation, and getting something confused when you're not sticking with ASCII or latin1 was commonplace 22:55:40 there are 3 different encodings used at any time in a connection, the one for sending queries, the one for interpreting literal values within a query, and the one for sending the results back 22:55:56 once the query made it to the server, it's converted to the database encoding, or sometime something else 22:56:03 http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/charset-connection.html 22:56:52 -!- splittist [uid17737@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aybbitshzkbbihox] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 22:56:55 thank you for reinforcing my stance of avoiding MySQL as much as possible 22:57:14 for hilarity purposes, or because they know they have broken conversion routines, SET character_set_connection = null; can be used so that the result from the tables are *NOT* converted on their way back 22:57:49 funny thing is that the latin1 stored value I have is then properly processed as utf8, whereas with conversion it's double-encoded 22:58:07 but of course the same connection setting fails with other data 22:59:06 compare to PostgreSQL's client_encoding setting, that is the only one you need to tweak for those purposes, and which just work. 23:01:59 Now, seriously, would use use MySQL for a 200 GB database? 23:02:15 the only time I use MySQL is to migrate my customers to PostgreSQL 23:02:24 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:02:24 I still need to be able to do that, see 23:02:28 So if you'd use MySQL only for databases that could be hold in RAM, then just don't use any database at all! 23:02:50 oh, so you don't understand what a database server is all about... 23:03:06 In the server, I mean. 23:03:28 still, it's not about data size and ram 23:03:50 MySQL doesn't do ACID anyways. 23:03:59 on myISAM at least 23:04:04 users pretend that innodb knows how to do that 23:04:08 InnoDB theoretically does 23:04:09 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:04:13 "theoretically" 23:04:15 but then of course you lose full text search and other options 23:04:48 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:05:55 zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a003:7dd0:7959:8804:b215] has joined #lisp 23:08:41 dim: the most you can do for encoding, is to check char-code-limit. You could expect values such as 128 256 65536 1114112, which could give you a hint of the kind of encoding used internally. 23:09:38 that's a good advice thanks, but it answers the wrong question I'm afraid (the one I did ask was a wrong track) 23:10:32 so the column is latin1, I ask for no conversion, and I get utf8 23:10:35 Yes, probably. 23:10:43 which is the connection's charset 23:10:45 You should ask for latin1. 23:10:54 on the socket, yes. 23:11:05 and I receive it within a column meta-data description that is saying it's latin1 23:11:32 so the meta-data is about the storage, not the transfer, and the transfer isn't doing what I think the docs spells out 23:11:34 nice 23:11:35 Some implementations let you change the encoding after having open the stream. 23:11:58 the mysql does too, then it implements something else than what's in the docs, and the docs are confusing as hell 23:13:14 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 23:16:11 sdemarre [~serge@118.70-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 23:16:37 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFE921.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:36 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:00 -!- k-stz```` [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-006.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:13 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:26:54 -!- Malice [~Malice@94-229-220-135.static.espol.com.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:39:53 -!- FareWell [fare@nat/google/x-ywmfvhwcaqdthdzv] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:46:36 ASau [~user@p54AFE921.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:51:16 so it seems that when the *column* character set has been set, and when character_set_results is set to null, then mysql isn't lying in the meta-data 23:51:17 -!- sdemarre [~serge@118.70-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:53:08 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 23:54:23 bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gprefzqxvnmkwftt] has joined #lisp 23:56:17 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@g225182245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:56:58 -!- zimmermann [~user@178-24-50-233-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:59:18 well I'm left to think that the latin1 data I have is actually stored in utf-8 encoding 23:59:42 I can't possibly get back on my feet again if MySQL itself doesn't know which encoding the data is in. 00:00:21 dim: it doesn't 00:00:36 that was the common issue back when I still used it 00:01:06 how about using some machine learning techniques? }:) 00:02:01 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFE921.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:02:53 well it will come to that I'm pretty sure 00:02:59 it will come at some cost, tho 00:03:04 ASau` [~user@p5083DE93.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:03:52 WarWeasle1 [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 00:04:25 -!- r0b1 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:04:26 Holly19 [~Holly19@37.221.173.229] has joined #lisp 00:05:06 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:43 -!- Holly19 [~Holly19@37.221.173.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:51 ok in the .MYD file I can see the c3a9 bytes 00:06:01 it's unicode in the file, not latin1 as declared in the table 00:06:14 I shouldn't have trusted that bits 00:08:34 -!- zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a003:7dd0:7959:8804:b215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:00 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 00:16:05 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 00:18:25 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:19:29 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzzzZ] 00:22:35 minion: note to FareWell: https://github.com/qitab/qmynd/pull/5 00:22:35 Remembered. I'll tell FareWell when he/she/it next speaks. 00:25:10 zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-130.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:28:24 -!- WarWeasle1 [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 00:30:35 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@213.Red-81-32-248.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:39 -!- skyLibrary [uid14629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-urksimqzyfmxbmsm] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 00:44:49 WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 00:59:24 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.195.104] has joined #lisp 01:02:05 -!- zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:05:55 zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 01:08:44 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 01:09:23 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:10:00 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:20 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:10:43 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-032-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:11:19 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:49 -!- wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:14:48 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 01:15:01 White__Flame [~quassel@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:05 -!- White_Flame [~user@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:15:36 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:17:07 -!- therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:44 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:19:23 wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has joined #lisp 01:19:28 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:19:42 mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:20:01 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:22:04 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@98.255.30.38] has joined #lisp 01:22:51 r0b1 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 01:23:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:25:27 thepreacher [~thepreach@31.185.48.136] has joined #lisp 01:31:12 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 01:31:31 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:41 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 01:41:09 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:24 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:47:31 -!- BlobJoe [~alexandre@pa3-84-90-6-83.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:47:43 BlobJoe [~alexandre@pa3-84-90-6-83.netvisao.pt] has joined #lisp 01:48:35 -!- thepreacher [~thepreach@31.185.48.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:48:44 -!- White__Flame is now known as White_Flame 01:51:58 -!- BlobJoe [~alexandre@pa3-84-90-6-83.netvisao.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:54:07 BlobJoe [~alexandre@pa5-84-91-153-84.netvisao.pt] has joined #lisp 01:54:30 -!- varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jmouknsbnxhpbvrl] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:54:44 -!- mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 01:57:32 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.80.142] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 01:58:02 vowyer [~vowyer@186.136.23.25] has joined #lisp 01:59:34 -!- tmh_ [~e@unaffiliated/tmh/x-0013998] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:12 -!- WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has left #lisp 02:02:34 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:37 -!- vowyer [~vowyer@186.136.23.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:03:10 vowyer [~vowyer@186.136.23.25] has joined #lisp 02:03:10 -!- vowyer [~vowyer@186.136.23.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:43 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-102-75.w109-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:03:52 Good morning everyone! 02:03:55 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:56 Francesca24 [~Francesca@37.221.173.229] has joined #lisp 02:04:09 -!- marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has quit [Quit: ()] 02:04:13 *beach* woke up way to early today. 02:04:55 marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has joined #lisp 02:05:12 -!- Francesca24 [~Francesca@37.221.173.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:08 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:14:30 -!- BlobJoe [~alexandre@pa5-84-91-153-84.netvisao.pt] has left #lisp 02:17:36 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:00 -!- nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 02:21:39 -!- 8OWAAAAAE [~ben@199.241.30.80] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:22:23 ben| [~ben@199.241.30.80] has joined #lisp 02:26:00 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.195.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:28:02 Hello beach. 02:30:23 Hey nyef! What are you working on these days? 02:31:24 hey beach ... good evening! 02:31:26 SBCL/SPARC, SBCL/ARM, working with my knitting machine, I've got a massive re-architecture project in mind for the system at work... 02:32:39 Wow, knitting machine. Sounds fun. 02:32:59 [the other ones sound fun too] 02:33:11 I finally managed to track down the current build failure with SBCL/SPARC to a specific VOP about... ten hours ago? Then pkhuong managed to find the actual bug. 02:33:28 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.195.104] has joined #lisp 02:34:21 And then I was helping fiveop with SBCL/ARM stuff, though I rather suspect that I'm going to have to sit down and sort out some of the nasty bits myself soon. 02:34:58 *beach* thinks we need a CLLVM. 02:35:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has joined #lisp 02:35:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has quit [Changing host] 02:35:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 02:35:21 ... sounds easier to do than using MPS 02:35:42 Isn't that what drmeister has been working on? 02:36:06 He is interfacing to the LLVM. I am talking about a parallel system in CL and for CL. 02:36:06 nyef: he is doing a new implementation, based on top of C 02:36:13 nyef: and uses LLVM 02:36:20 Ah. 02:36:46 minion: What does MPS stand for? 02:36:46 Meconin Panophthalmitis Scutcheonless 02:37:28 MPS = Memory Pool System from Ravenbrook 02:37:35 Ah, OK, thanks :) 02:37:46 gadmyth [~user@180.169.135.200] has joined #lisp 02:38:18 p_l: I was offered that by Nick Levine for SICL. What is hard about it? 02:38:18 personally I'm tempted to seriously suggest striking down that item from SBCL's GSoC project ideas list 02:38:29 beach: depends on what you're doing 02:38:41 SBCL is IMO much harder to fit there 02:38:54 Oh, I haven't check the projects. Is using MPS for SBCL one of them? 02:39:05 yes, it is, since previous year 02:39:11 I see. 02:39:21 and I happen to have spent some time investigating that option 02:40:12 if we're willing to struck down various optimizations and instead always call into MPS, it becames usable 02:40:34 What is unsatisfactory about the current SBCL memory management system? The fact that it is partially conservatory? 02:40:47 IMO good use of MPS though would involve possibly larger rewrite of allocators for various data structures 02:40:49 Honestly, it's probably going to be easier to improve gencgc than to switch entirely to another GC system. 02:41:03 beach: the list of proposed reasons are on the project list 02:41:14 p_l: OK, I'll look at it. 02:41:28 Where's the current project list, btw? 02:41:52 Are we still working from last years project list? 02:41:56 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:29 http://www.sbcl.org/gsoc2013/ideas/ <-- this one is still current, afaik 02:42:34 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-130.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:43:00 Fair enough. 02:43:14 zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-130.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 02:43:36 Yeah, I don't believe the presumed benefits. 02:44:19 nyef: personally I was thinking more of rewriting gengc, but doing so within the framework of existing GC code, a more organic change that could reuse ideas from MPS 02:44:32 (and other GCs, like G1) 02:44:42 minion: paste 137127? 02:44:42 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 02:44:45 Hrm. 02:44:58 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137127 02:45:35 That's part of my current list of things to do with gencgc (some of which has already been done). 02:45:49 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6d8b9.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:46:05 "**** Separate allocation into boxed and unboxed regions from the start" <--- that was something that I was considering 02:46:25 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:46:56 One thing that'd be nice is the ability to relocate references that are on the stack. 02:47:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:47:02 with possible use of dynamically created "delimited region sets", something like (with-new-allocation-region :options... ) 02:47:12 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-130.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:47:46 Ah, right, I have a separate thing for specialized allocation regions (so that you can allocate into a region and then dump the entire region without GCing). 02:48:22 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.253] has quit [Quit: h] 02:48:47 nyef: I was thinking that such delimited region would cause a minor GC pass optimized for the idea that you're going to kill the whole region 02:49:38 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 02:50:43 I was thinking that such a delimited region would be scavenged for roots, but the objects would persist until the region was dumped explicitly, and if you had references into the region from the heap then you deserve to lose... Although there would also be the possibility of hooking into the GC for live-object notifications. 02:51:26 I hadn't gotten too far with the idea, just about 27 lines of text or so. 02:51:36 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 02:51:38 nyef: well, I was thinking also of possibly porting some convenience functions from Genera etc. 02:52:08 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.195.104] has left #lisp 02:52:13 also, non-contiguous address space and dynamic growing *and* shrinking 02:52:15 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:21 Mmm. 02:52:38 Essentially, though, "I have a little list". (-: 02:52:39 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 02:54:14 ... ZFS has corrupted me. When I noticed the entry about freelists, I thought of the metaslab allocator... ^^; 02:54:47 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:58:11 prxq [~mommer@x2f64950.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 02:59:51 tmh_ [~e@unaffiliated/tmh/x-0013998] has joined #lisp 03:00:34 I also want a build option for x86-64 to use separate C and Lisp stacks and a partitioned register set, much like the SPARC and PPC GENCGC options. 03:01:21 Even better would be an x86-64 build option for a 32-bit heap, like the Alpha. 03:02:30 nyef: Why do you want separate C and Lisp stacks? 03:03:12 nyef: And why do you want to separate the register sets? It seems, given the value of PC, you know what register contains what type, no? 03:03:25 Because the Lisp stack would only contain boxed data, and would be the only stack containing boxed data, which means that we could scavenge it properly instead of pinning any potential references (not that there are many potential references in normal operation). 03:03:42 We don't have a full register map, and certainly not down to the instruction leve. 03:03:46 Err. level. 03:04:00 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 03:04:07 We don't even have completely reliable backtrace, for that matter. 03:04:59 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:44 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:06:18 So why not work on a full register and stack map instead? 03:06:28 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:32 I am not criticizing. Just curious. 03:06:53 For a couple of reasons. One is that the full register and stack map looks like a harder problem. 03:07:18 Sounds strange to me. 03:07:35 Another is that having an x86-64 build option to make the system behave like SPARC and PPC in several ways would help to find and/or prevent bugs in the SPARC and PPC backends. 03:07:38 I mean, surely, after register allocation, this information must be known. 03:08:35 It's known at one level, but not down as far as instructions. And it gets discarded rather than encoded and placed in the heap / fasl file. 03:08:54 I see. 03:09:13 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:09:48 Another question (sorry for my ignorance): Do the SPARC and PPC backends separate register for the same reason? Or are there intrinsic architecture reasons for that? 03:11:07 It's a bit stronger there. It turns out to be much easier to design a system with a partitioned register set than to design one with a full register map, so there's a lot of historical precedent for the partitioned register set. 03:11:31 OK, Thanks. 03:11:49 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:12:29 Basically, I have a large wishlist of things to improve with the various backends and overall infrastructure, including register maps, stack maps, reliable backtrace, the ability to unwind-to-frame at any debug level, and a host of other things. 03:12:44 izirku [~izirku@pool-173-71-18-32.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:48 another possibly weird idea - partitioned core format, and use of (essentially) same format for FASL 03:12:54 What I don't have is the project bandwidth for it. 03:13:13 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:14 nyef: I fully understand. 03:14:01 this would tie in with specialized regions, so for example you can dump detailed debugging data into a region during compilation, then save it in hw-page-aligned way in FASL/core and load on demand 03:14:03 p_l: mmap()able fasls, with base-relocation pass and a table of fixups to apply? 03:14:24 nyef: and optionally loaded segments like docstrings, debug info, etc. 03:14:47 Mmm. There's lots to do, just not enough time to do it. 03:14:54 hehe 03:16:09 after looking through organizations and proposed projects, I'm not sure about starting in this year's GSoC 03:16:15 despite being the last one I can join 03:16:48 Last one you can join as a mentor, or as a student? 03:16:52 as student 03:16:56 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:17:02 TBH, I don't qualify as mentor 03:17:13 You can always propose a different project. 03:17:15 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 03:17:17 it would be a disservice to student :) 03:17:30 nyef: I know 03:17:31 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:05 It's just that... I am not sure how much effort I could devote, and whether a project is worthy or not 03:20:11 I've got a potential design for disposing of pseudo-atomic, if that's of interest. 03:20:35 Without using safepoints, that is. 03:21:24 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.195.104] has joined #lisp 03:21:58 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.195.104] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:24 hmm 03:25:24 bjz [~bjz@139.216.243.15] has joined #lisp 03:34:03 lp 309099 03:34:03 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/309099 03:34:16 I also might, at long last, have an angle on this bug. 03:35:51 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 03:35:56 -!- effy [~x@114.252.34.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:40:17 -!- CrazyWoods [~nowolfer@27.159.20.204] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:42:41 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:39 -!- tmh_ [~e@unaffiliated/tmh/x-0013998] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:56 what library will help me get/post json to a low level socket (json not over http socket) 03:45:02 ? 03:46:33 Well, step one would be to get some JSON serialized as a string or octet vector, so something like ST-JSON, and then you'll want a socket library like maybe usocket, and possibly then something to cover suitable external formats like maybe flexi-streams... 03:47:10 ok thanks 03:47:29 -!- qiemem [uid14911@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wciwwjqbvylzfeot] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:47:37 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:47:59 As an SBCL user, I might skip flexi-streams in favor of SBCL's stuff, and usocket in favor of sb-bsd-sockets, but otherwise it's about the same. 03:48:44 never worked with low-level sockets before. i have a lot of research ahead of me :) 03:49:39 Good luck, then. 03:50:23 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:52:00 effy [~x@123.122.70.163] has joined #lisp 03:55:00 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@81-233-152-121-no83.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:37 -!- effy [~x@123.122.70.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:58:44 -!- urandom__ [~user@p20030056C87CC0143E970EFFFE524478.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 04:00:56 effy [~x@114.252.56.65] has joined #lisp 04:03:36 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:40 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:17 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 04:09:00 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:10:00 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:10:17 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:37 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:14:10 so st-json is preferred over yason, etc? 04:15:31 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:15:45 It depends on what you're doing and what your preferences are. I prefer st-json because it allows me to make certain distinctions when dealing with JSON that I'm parsing. Others prefer the others because of convenient internal representation or parsing speed (as useless a metric as that may be), or whatever. 04:17:09 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 04:19:25 I'm not quite sure how to use st-json is why I ask. the documentation only shows the api, and im not seeing how to read a json string 04:20:50 Do you have the input as a string, or are you trying to read from a file or a stream? 04:21:31 i'm just using fake json string atm and failing 04:22:11 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:51 All of my JSON stuff is on another computer, but IIRC it's something on the order of (st-json:read-json-from-string "{field_1: 42, field_2: \"forty-two\"}") 04:23:06 Which should get you an ST-JSON:JSO that you can then work with. 04:23:53 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:24:29 i guess i should of elaborated on how to use these jso streams 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04:50:35 BlobJoe [~alexandre@pa5-84-91-153-84.netvisao.pt] has joined #lisp 04:50:47 ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:55 -!- ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:51:08 ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:11 -!- ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:51:25 ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:29 -!- ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:51:40 ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:44 -!- ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:51:45 what is the function that returns t if the argument is other than nil? 04:51:49 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.195.104] has joined #lisp 04:51:57 ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:00 -!- ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:52:11 ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:14 -!- ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:52:27 ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:30 -!- ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:52:43 ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:47 -!- ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:52:59 ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:02 -!- ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:07 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:54:24 -!- ASau` [~user@p5083DE93.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:27 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:45 nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 04:57:00 BlobJoe: (not (not arg)) ? 04:57:04 BlobJoe: I'm out of practice but I don't recall that there is one; the shortest things you could do are (if arg t) or (and arg t) 04:57:07 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 04:59:11 ASau` [~user@p5083DE93.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:59:31 I personally used cl-json, somehow it always worked the best for me 05:00:49 I like being able to distinguish between NULL, false, and the empty list when working with JSON, which isn't always possible with some of the libraries. 05:01:07 -!- ASau` [~user@p5083DE93.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03:13 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:03:29 BlobJoe: why do you want to convert to T though? 05:04:02 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:24 if I were doing it it would be I was writing a library and I wanted to make sure a caller didn't assume I was returning a more-specific value on purpose 05:04:31 ASau` [~user@p5083DE93.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:05:35 I'd think that'd be something for the docs & docstring to convey 05:05:52 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:10 I think playing with a thing in the repl should be a valid way to learn 05:07:07 it's a valid way to be introduced to something, but cargo cult misunderstandings feed off such situations 05:07:53 -!- adsisco [sid25204@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ewbkaamdzhpgpjmo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:08:01 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: i will be back...nvm] 05:08:23 adsisco [sid25204@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aalyrqhpyhozesdy] has joined #lisp 05:12:14 -!- WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:14:13 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined 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host] 06:24:59 bjz [~bjz@139.216.243.15] has joined #lisp 06:27:16 KindOne_ [KindOne@h30.52.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:18 -!- KindOne_ [KindOne@h30.52.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:27:41 -!- bjz [~bjz@139.216.243.15] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:27:56 bjz [~bjz@139.216.243.15] has joined #lisp 06:28:44 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:29:07 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:29:44 -!- xcc [~bosnevi@cable-146-255-152-38.dynamic.telemach.ba] has quit [] 06:29:53 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:51ac:767f:dcd6:77df] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:29:55 KindOne_ [KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut] has joined #lisp 06:29:58 -!- KindOne_ [KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:30:14 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:51ac:767f:dcd6:77df] has joined #lisp 06:32:47 how can i get yason:encode-alist to return only 1 value? 06:33:08 -!- ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:12 KindOne_ [KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut] has joined #lisp 06:33:13 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 06:33:19 it seems to return the input even with (nth-value) 06:33:25 axion: what do you mean by "only one value"? do you want to create a string? 06:33:34 i want to return only the output 06:33:53 so i could wrap it back into yason:parse 06:33:57 use paste.lisp.org to show what you do. 06:34:33 and if you want to encode to a string, use yason:with-output-to-string* 06:35:02 ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:24 as the documentation states, encode-alist returns the object encoded. that is the intended behavior. 06:35:33 http://paste.lisp.org/display/141441 06:35:49 how can i take the output and use yason:parse on it? 06:37:07 (yason:parse (yason:encode-alist ...)) no good? 06:37:08 http://paste.lisp.org/display/141441#1 06:37:13 -!- telstar [~telstar@fsf/member/telstar] has left #lisp 06:37:15 Bike: no. 06:37:28 oh, i see, it's not a value, it's printed to stdout. 06:37:35 sorry. 06:37:37 yason:encode-* encodes to a stream, *standard-output* by default. 06:38:31 ah i see. thanks 06:40:38 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 06:41:18 sdemarre [~serge@112.84-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 06:46:22 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:42 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:54 JPeterson [~JPeterson@81-233-152-121-no83.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 06:47:21 -!- bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 06:47:37 -!- ssj4mo [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:48:02 ssj4mo_s [ssj4mo@ool-457a3fb3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 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[~Vivitron@198.199.115.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:59 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [] 07:36:01 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:39:22 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:50 splittist [uid17737@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ykfjyzpiepbvqisw] has joined #lisp 07:47:28 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:02 zimmermann [~user@178-24-50-233-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 07:51:49 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:52:48 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:54:21 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:54:49 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li350-154.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:59:06 quick question 07:59:58 why are yason examples for encoding keyword plists such as '(:a 1 :b 2) => {"A":"1","B":"2"}, when json is case-sensitive? 08:01:31 Symbols are (usually) read as uppercase 08:01:31 axion: because '(:a 1 :b 2) => (:A 1 :B 2) 08:01:38 So :a is :A 08:01:43 that is, default uppercasing in reader 08:02:05 right. so using symbol plists requires json keys to be uppercase 08:02:19 sicne json is case-sensitive 08:02:29 You should be able to '(|:a| 1) => {"a":"1"} 08:02:43 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:02:47 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 08:03:05 or do a modern mode thing ;) 08:03:10 Er, :|a| 08:04:59 ok i didnt know about that 08:07:24 Caroline20 [~Caroline2@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 08:07:53 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:c698:a4a0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 08:08:42 -!- Caroline20 [~Caroline2@95.141.20.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:11:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:15:10 MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:15:33 i'm going to bug you guys one more time with another newb question... 08:15:37 is this a plist? 08:15:55 -!- nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16:31 This? 08:17:01 ("STATUS" (("STATUS" "S" "When" 1393748029 "Code" 11 "Msg" "Summary" "Description" "test_program")) 08:17:20 ) 08:18:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:19:25 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-141-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:21:37 -!- speckle [~speckle@c-76-111-8-161.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:22:02 plists uses symbols. 08:22:37 ok that was output from yason using :object-as :plist 08:22:43 just wondering how to use getf on that 08:23:15 Poenikatu [~kvirc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has joined #lisp 08:23:37 -!- ggkitsas [~ggkitsas@150.140.215.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:25:41 you have to provide a :object-key-fn to turn the keys into keywords yourself. 08:25:47 I've just used quicklisp to get the osicat library. It appears that it has downloaded 8284 bytes at the rate of 13550.83KB/sec. Considering that I don't have fibre broadband and can only get a maximum of 1500 KB/sec, I reckon that quicklisp does bogus calculations 08:26:04 since yason can't safely presume how exactly you want to transform the json keys into keywords 08:26:31 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.195.104] has left #lisp 08:27:26 hmm 08:27:39 Poenikatu: does it give bogus results on larger downloads? 08:27:53 Poenikatu: netspeed calculations are always going to be kind of shit, especially with small downloads like that. 08:28:13 You might have got the whole thing in one packet or something like that. 08:28:51 ggole: 244,422 bytes in 1.09 seconds (219.49KB/sec) => seems reasonable to me 08:28:52 yeah. tough to get a continuous speed out of a discrete process. 08:29:31 Mmm. I wouldn't worry about it too much then. 08:30:08 ggole: Not worried, just commenting. Just ignore my comments. When I have a problem, that's a different matter. 08:33:04 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-78-76-233.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:35:37 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:35:55 jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-123.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:37:30 -!- qiemem [uid14911@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-saktocgixzaprvko] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 08:40:14 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 08:41:10 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 08:48:17 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-242.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:50:06 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:24 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:58:10 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:06 r0b1 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 09:04:16 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:07:03 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:30 -!- bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gprefzqxvnmkwftt] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 09:12:56 stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has joined #lisp 09:17:38 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:17:55 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.14] has joined #lisp 09:19:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-242.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:20:13 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 09:20:38 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:23 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 09:24:25 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b12e5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:08 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 09:32:48 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:32:53 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:33:13 jmolinaso [~smuxi@d54C39A61.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 09:34:16 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:35:04 therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has joined #lisp 09:37:04 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-223-10-69.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:40:49 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 09:44:49 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:45:28 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:49:46 varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-psqdpfsvqrliqgzm] has joined #lisp 09:52:19 What are your general thoughts about memory pooling vs allowing the GC to do its thing, considering many small objects with a specifically known lifecycle? 09:52:33 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 09:52:53 White_Flame: It depends on the GC algorithm used. 09:53:08 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:53:10 general thoughts about this inside SBCL, then 09:53:47 White_Flame: If you have a copying or fake copying collector then garbage objects are never touched, so even if there are many small dead objects, it doesn't matter. 09:54:00 I don't know what SBCL does. Sorry. 09:54:07 ok 09:54:11 You can also lose a bit if the write barrier is expensive 09:54:12 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:54:53 ggole: In the case of memory pool? 09:54:55 beach: but that's also only the case if they're very short lived 09:55:02 Yeah. 09:55:17 Cos you are mutating objects rather than allocating new ones. 09:55:23 Indeed. 09:55:47 White_Flame: True. If they are long lived, they would have to be traced. 09:56:16 yes, I was thinking along those lines. AFAIK, sbcl uses memory faults to trap pages for detecting changes. 09:57:09 The scenario I'm considering would be longer lived objects with a mutated field, so kind of the worst of both worlds 09:59:37 however, I believe I can optimize cases where the objects would be immutable (at least within their usage lifecycle, in the pooling case). From there, the expense of new allocation & extra shuffling around of GC would likely be the primary factor 10:00:03 Memory faults? Hmm, that seems like it would be expensive. 10:00:19 well, it only faults once per page between GCs. It doesn't re-fault on every write 10:00:30 (And you've catch things like writes of an immediate to an object which don't need a write barrier.) 10:00:37 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:00:51 which is why immediate-only allocation pages don't get write protection ;) 10:00:54 dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@cpc3-finc13-2-0-cust253.4-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:31 Right, but if you have a struct of a fixnum and two pointers and only need to mutate the fixnum, you lose. 10:01:36 yep 10:01:42 Tradeoffs everywhere. 10:02:04 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:02:09 iirc, there have been tests doing manual card updating in write barriers, but results were inconclusive 10:02:20 in terms of overall speed advantage 10:03:28 I seem to remember one of the Self papers describing a pretty fast write barrier based on cards 10:03:34 It was two instructions iirc 10:03:56 Nicole20 [~Nicole20@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 10:03:58 This doesn't solve your issue. 10:04:11 Still, it's interesting :) 10:04:15 yep :) 10:04:58 And it's pretty easy to swap out between pooling & alloc+GC (assuming you have an "I'm done with this object" call written safely everywhere it's applicable) 10:05:01 A Fast Write Barrier For Generational Collectors - Hölzle.ps 10:05:11 -!- Nicole20 [~Nicole20@95.141.20.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:24 Just curious if people had some thoughts or experience on these tradeoffs 10:06:02 But I'm leaning towards pooling at the moment. I'm at the beginning of development, so nothing to profile yet 10:06:43 White_Flame: In that case, I would use the GC initially, but create abstractions around the objects, then change later if it becomes a problem. 10:06:54 is there a time function that converts seconds to hours and minutes? 10:07:02 right, like I said that'd have to include "I'm done with this object" insertions as well 10:08:05 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:08:06 axion: FLOOR? 10:08:13 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:08:19 -!- BlobJoe [~alexandre@pa5-84-91-153-84.netvisao.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:50 -!- pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:10:20 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:54 -!- wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:58 axion: It's quite hackish, but decode-universal-time takes the number of seconds from the beginning of Jan 1 1900, and gives all the fields. However, time zones are also in play there. 10:11:05 would be a lot cheaper to just divide 10:11:38 wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has joined #lisp 10:12:43 i'm just looking for a quick way to convert an elapsed time in seconds to a more friendly response. i'll just divide 10:13:19 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-226-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:13:22 Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 10:14:01 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:14:18 -!- dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@cpc3-finc13-2-0-cust253.4-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:14:19 (floor (/ seconds 60) 60) gives values hours & minutes 10:14:56 dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@cpc3-finc13-2-0-cust253.4-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:13 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:20:53 vaporatorius [~vaporator@213.Red-81-32-248.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:34 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:27:42 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:29:42 frkout [~frkout@47.145.218.133.dy.bbexcite.jp] has joined #lisp 10:30:32 frkout_ [~frkout@p2045-ipngn1006marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:32:01 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:34:01 -!- frkout [~frkout@47.145.218.133.dy.bbexcite.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:34:49 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:35:50 alexherb1 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-53.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:38:25 -!- r0b1 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:39:13 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:41:34 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 10:45:14 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 10:46:01 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:48:19 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Client Quit] 10:55:00 jl_ [~jl@41.251.91.217] has joined #lisp 10:55:34 -!- jlg [~jl@41.141.60.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:57:03 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:08 armicron [~ahWoh2ai@178.45.238.235] has joined #lisp 11:05:50 I have downloaded the latest version of sbcl (sbcl-1.1.16-x86-64-linux) and have been informed by the INSTALL file that to build sbcl, I should issue the command "sh make.sh". Unfortunately, the file "make.sh" aint there. 11:06:51 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@213.Red-81-32-248.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 11:07:48 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.14] has quit [Quit: h] 11:08:54 Sometimes I wish that there was a 3-tuple that was as cheap & syntactically supported as a cons cell 11:12:48 using a struct doubles the size of the object from the raw 3 elements, and using an array seems to be almost the same 11:20:28 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-032-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:13 -!- Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:23:55 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC79F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:24:49 Poenikatu: You have downloaded the binary distribution. So you should follow the instructions under point 1. 11:26:46 The source distribution would be sourceforge.net/projects/sbcl/files/sbcl/1.1.16/sbcl-1.1.16-source.tar.bz2 11:27:49 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 11:31:48 Near [~Near@unaffiliated/near] has joined #lisp 11:32:22 -!- jl_ is now known as jlg 11:32:35 yakov [~ysz@85-114-2-246.obit.ru] has joined #lisp 11:32:46 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:33:07 When Lisp is used, is it normally embedded inside the application (such as in Emacs), is it interpreted or is it normally compiled? 11:33:59 Near: What is it like when the language is not embedded in the application? 11:34:25 Near: Most implementations compile to native code, but sometimes questions like yours indicate confusion. 11:35:08 beach; so the normal thing would be the compile the source code? 11:35:09 Near: Like, people confuse "compiled" vs "standalone executable" and "interpreted" vs "interactive" 11:35:14 I went to bed yesterday, when someone has asked the question. I'm greeted by the same question again today :) 11:35:34 Near: Most CL implementations compile forms as you type them. 11:35:43 beach; what is a form? 11:36:05 Near: Like a statement or an expression in other languages. 11:36:26 beach; so '(+ 1 4)' is normally compiled in CL implementations? 11:36:34 Near: Yes. 11:36:40 beach; compiled as you type it in the interpreter? 11:36:43 yes. 11:36:51 but it is not an interpreter. 11:36:56 It is an interactive compiler. 11:37:04 beach; would this imply other Lisp's like Scheme don't? 11:37:09 no 11:37:09 hence the confusion "interpreted" vs "interactive" 11:37:24 Near: It has nothing to do with the language. 11:37:33 It is a property of the implementation. 11:37:42 beach; I understand. 11:38:16 beach; so if I went to develop an application fully in CL, I would write the source somewhere, compile it and run it? 11:38:17 Near: ... which is why I didn't say "Lisp" but "Most ... implementations.". 11:38:34 beach; I'm sorry. 11:38:53 scheme is compiled too sometimes 11:38:58 Near: Yes, but you would not generate a standalone executable until the very end of your development, if at all. 11:39:21 beach; why so? this is not the standard? 11:39:40 with standard I mean what the vast majority of the people do. 11:39:41 Near: Because you would deprive yourself of the excellent interactive development environment then. 11:40:27 Near: You would be back in the dark ages, debugging your code with "print statements". 11:40:40 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 11:40:45 Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:57 beach; could you describe the 'normal' development process, from writing the source to distribution? I would be great for me to fully understand. 11:41:17 as you edit source files, you directly load them into the running lisp image 11:41:18 s/I/I\'d/ 11:41:21 Near: 1. Start the interactive Lisp environment inside Emacs. 11:41:38 Near: 2. Write an ASDF system (like Makefile). 11:41:40 A lot of these questions could be answered oh so much better by just trying it out. 11:41:47 Near: 3: Edit some code. 11:41:57 Near: Compile the system with ASDF. 11:42:04 Near: Test what you have written so far. 11:42:12 or watch some Youtube videos of lisp development, preferrably through SLIME 11:42:15 Near: Iterate from 3. 11:42:21 Does anyone know a introductory screencast to slime in english (I can only find a japanese one) 11:42:26 That would probably help Near 11:42:58 zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-178-003-170-169.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:04 Shinmera: Does it bother you that they are answered here and now? 11:43:35 beach; so SLIME turns out to be so good Emacs is basically fundamental in the development process of a Lisp application? 11:44:01 beach: I feel like the answers only lead to a whole branch of confusion 11:44:06 Near: Some people use SLIMV and VIM, but if you have a choice, I would go for Emacs. 11:44:21 Shinmera: Oh, really? I was trying to avoid just that. Hmm. 11:44:35 Shinmera; a lot of things now are clearer thanks to beach, no confusion. 11:44:54 Near: basically. It's the most popular and best-supported Lisp IDE as considered by many 11:45:13 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:45:32 Near: it's quite possible to use Emacs like a GUI editor 11:45:54 beach; what is the fundamental feature of SLIME that makes it so good? the communication between your source file and the REPL? (sending your source directly to the interpreter to test it?) 11:46:13 beach: It might just be me, but I think the first thing to worry about is writing code, not deployment (which is what this has been about for the most part) 11:46:22 dlowe; I know, I have experience using Emacs for 2 years, but I completely switched to VIM. 11:46:26 Near: ah, well, I'm relieved then. 11:46:33 Near: That and the backtrace, the interactive inspector, etc. 11:46:34 <|3b|> Near: slime also has a nice debugger, ability to interactive look at data, etc 11:46:48 and macroexpansions 11:46:48 Near: you're the first I've heard ever do that 11:47:29 Now I have to revise my pitch. 11:47:37 dlowe; The reason is using shortcuts was bugging me. 11:47:51 Not a single... One, only one person I know has ever switched to vim from emacs 11:48:06 after 2 years? 11:48:09 Yes. 11:48:15 yesterday. 11:48:17 in 1 day. 11:48:54 Near: you can count me in 11:49:40 beach; I thought the plain implementation interactive compiler provided this feature? 11:49:44 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-132-189.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:52 I think I'd do evil-mode before giving up the language stack model of an editor 11:49:55 AndiPersti: Just noticed your reply. Many thanks 11:50:03 -!- Poenikatu [~kvirc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 11:50:05 (inspect data real time and backtrace) 11:50:23 Near: Now, I agree with Shinmera. To appreciate the difference, you would have to try it out. 11:50:42 Near: Yes, all that exists already, but it is SOOO much more convenient with sLIME. 11:51:14 G'morning all. 11:51:26 Near: In fact, SLIME typically just provides an interface to the (often implementation-specific) features. 11:51:30 Hi nyef! 11:51:40 Near: What exactly is holding you off from just jumping into it is what I'm curious about. 11:51:59 Shinmera; jumping into what? 11:52:07 Some people don't like to make an investment without inspecting it first 11:52:09 <|3b|> Near: slime automates a lot of the details compared to the built-in debuggers etc in most implementations, for example 1 key in slime to go to the source for a specific frame vs typing commands in built-in debugger to find the file, then opening it in editor and navigating to the right function 11:52:09 Near: Writing some CL code. 11:52:15 Near: I am leaving you in the capable hands of other #lisp participants, 'cause I really need a nap. 11:52:17 beach; is there such a difference then? it seems its just a front end for the implementation for Emacs. 11:52:24 bon nuit, beach 11:52:34 dlowe: Just afternoon nap, but thanks. 11:52:39 <|3b|> Near: also, slime works the same way with multiple implementations, so you don't have to learn all the differences of the built-in tools 11:52:43 Near: Try it and you will see. 11:52:49 BBL 11:52:56 dlowe: It would've been less of a time investment to get started than it has been to discuss all this so far. 11:53:07 Shinmera; I have already done so, however I wasn't familiar with the development process and couldn't find / understand much of the documentation online due to a confusion with "interpreter" and "interactive". 11:53:24 <|3b|> slime also knows about lots of low-level/internal interfaces for various implementations that would be harder to find out about and use directly 11:53:24 It's hard to "just jump in" when you don't know what the capabilities are, and what's normal expected work flow 11:53:51 Near: Ah, well then, nevermind my rambling. 11:54:29 Shinmera; what does rambling mean? 11:55:12 My most-used SLIME stuff would be C-c C-k to compile a buffer, C-. to go to the definition of a symbol (and C-, to return). Even right there you've got a huge advantage vs a plain text editor. 11:55:24 -!- tmh_ [~e@unaffiliated/tmh/x-0013998] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55:50 My most used SLIME stuff is intelligent tab completion and indentation :p 11:56:12 hmm, I could use a "Jump cursor to the latest active REPL buffer". Is there one? 11:56:25 White_Flame: slime-selector 11:56:26 Near: There's a dictionary for that. In short: Incoherent thoughts / blabbering about things 11:56:58 dlowe: that gives me some incomprehensible prompt... 11:56:58 Shinmera; I'm sorry, thank you for the explanation. 11:57:09 White_Flame: hit r for repl 11:57:14 Does paredit exist for VIM? 11:57:29 Because I would definitely count that as my most used emacs extension for Lisp. 11:57:56 dlowe: ah, nice. 11:58:34 I always C-x b repl , but I only ever have one open. 11:59:01 you mean C-x b *repl ? 11:59:11 -!- yakov [~ysz@85-114-2-246.obit.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:59:20 are we braiding emacs' hair again? 11:59:24 no repl 11:59:24 we love it so much don't we? 11:59:27 C-x b *repl 11:59:35 <|3b|> C-c C-z ? 11:59:52 oh, and Alt-F4 gives you IRC ops 12:00:37 White_Flame: ido-mode for buffer switching 12:00:38 clever. 12:00:46 super trollish, but clever. 12:01:17 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:01:24 a troll as old as IRC itself 12:01:38 (well, IRC likely predates 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15:53:13 -!- zimmermann [~user@178-24-50-233-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:47 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:00:13 genericus [~generic@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:39 -!- genericus [~generic@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:00:49 Shinmera: if you install slimv, you'll get paredit too. 16:01:47 <``Erik> Xach: I vagually recall alt+f4 giving people ops in winirc in the mid 90's O:-) 16:02:39 genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:57 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:04:21 Adrianna21 [~Adrianna2@37.221.173.229] has joined #lisp 16:05:37 -!- Adrianna21 [~Adrianna2@37.221.173.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:28 flip214: Ah, good to know that they have that as well then :) 16:09:35 ggkitsas [~ggkitsas@150.140.215.17] has joined #lisp 16:10:51 -!- Mon_Ouie 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joined #lisp 16:27:56 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.206.87] has joined #lisp 16:29:30 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:29:31 Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 16:32:37 -!- KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:34:12 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:35:31 -!- k-stz [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-188.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:58 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 16:36:52 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 16:40:25 -!- arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:42:22 Xach: what's state of the art regarding system definition files and making quicklisp happy? Their own package? Which system description fields are helpful? 16:42:29 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@pool-173-73-8-83.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 16:43:42 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:45:30 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:47:13 -!- huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:49:31 bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nigzrepwdxiuycbg] has joined #lisp 16:53:18 francogrex [~user@206.112-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 16:54:55 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.14] has joined #lisp 16:57:01 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #lisp 16:57:27 genericus [~generic@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:03 -!- genericus [~generic@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:05:58 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-245-74.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:51 boogie [~boogie@cpe-76-174-188-141.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:10 BlobJoe [~alexandre@pa3-84-90-6-83.netvisao.pt] has joined #lisp 17:12:41 knob [~knob@66-50-172-233.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:31 pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 17:13:49 Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:16:26 Monika30 [~Monika30@79.141.173.62] has joined #lisp 17:18:56 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:21:47 -!- Monika30 [~Monika30@79.141.173.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:26:13 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:53 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 17:38:34 I'm a bit confused here, on the common lisp documentation for the CLOSE function it says, and I quote: "The stream is closed (if necessary).", but for some reason, when I call it with nil (due to an open simply failing), it throws me an error telling me that: 17:38:38 There is no applicable method for the generic function: 17:38:38 # 17:38:38 when called with arguments: 17:38:49 -!- francogrex [~user@206.112-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:51 bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:38:53 This in slime using Clozure CL. What am I doing wrong here? 17:39:19 Calling CLOSE with a SYMBOL rather than a STREAM? 17:39:36 Not using WITH-OPEN-FILE or WITH-OPEN-STREAM in the first place? 17:41:07 So this example doesn't really work right: (let ((f (open "somefile.txt" : if-does-not-exist nil))) (close f)) 17:41:10 BlobJoe: trying to CLOSE a symbol is wrong. 17:41:25 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: activity vanished because computer stinks] 17:41:42 (with-open-file (f "somefile.txt" :if-does-not-exist nil)), perhaps? 17:41:57 clhs when 17:41:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_when_.htm 17:43:19 <|3b|> "closed (if necessary)" means it doesn't close a stream that isn't open, not that it accepts but doesn't close things that aren't streams 17:44:13 Ok, so in that case the file is automatically closed, I get it. But (for the sake of learning), how would I use close in a safe way then? would I have to "if" it to see if it was nil or if a file was really opened and bound to f? 17:44:41 you shouldn't really ever use CLOSE 17:45:02 either with-open-file or with-open-stream 17:46:35 <|3b|> in the example with :if-does-not-exist nil, presumably you check for NIL anyway since NIL wouldn't work for any other function expecting a stream (and would probably not do what you expect for things taking a stream designator) 17:47:19 <|3b|> and even if you did expect it, i wouldn't want to work on any code base that relied on things like that anyway :p 17:47:59 clhs pathname designator 17:48:23 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:48 clhs glossary/pathname designator 17:48:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_p.htm#pathname_designator 17:49:09 glossary ... shows how often I use specbot! 17:49:14 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 17:49:41 Ok then, I won't use it, you guys are right, it doesn't make much sense. But just to be clear, with-file-open I still need to check if the stream is valid and not nil or else the macro will throw in its internal CLOSE right? 17:50:19 no 17:50:34 r0b1 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 17:50:50 then it closes (or doesn't) safely no matter what? 17:50:57 yes 17:51:01 alright cool 17:51:02 thanks 17:51:37 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:51:43 aquinas [~aquinas_@unaffiliated/aquinas] has joined #lisp 17:51:51 you need to check for NIL (if you're intent on using :if-does-not-exist nil) in any other functions you're planning on using on the stream 17:51:56 "t is possible by the use of :if-exists nil or :if-does-not-exist nil for stream to be bound to nil. Users of :if-does-not-exist nil should check for a valid stream." 17:52:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:52:03 -!- aquinas [~aquinas_@unaffiliated/aquinas] has left #lisp 17:52:39 genericus [~genericus@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:53:01 yes, I was aware, I just didn't know if closing the nil would pose any problems 17:54:02 What does CLOSE say in the hyperspec ... what is the first argument? Is NIL of the type that is specified for the first argument? 17:56:52 well, the first argument is not nil 17:57:53 but still, I don't think it is unreasonable to think that CLOSE could try to check for nil if it was passed. Now I know it doesn't, but I'm kind of used to that kind of behavior so... 17:58:23 vaporatorius [~vaporator@25.red-80-29-94.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:25 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:58:25 r0b2 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 17:58:28 it is not unreasonable to think that, but it's unreasonable for CLOSE to behave like that 17:58:34 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:36 what next, 1+ working on NIL? 17:58:39 -!- r0b1 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:58:41 do you think that every function should check if you do not pass it the correct type, and error if you do? 17:58:49 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-50-134-206-238.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:59:02 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:59:13 stassats, use a monad. 17:59:21 *drewc* thinks that is does actually ... "there is no applicable method for the generic function:" 17:59:36 no no, not at all, I just tend to think of nil as special when in lisp it really isn't. I'm sorry. 17:59:58 clhs glossary/special 17:59:58 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for glossary/special. 18:00:17 clhs special 18:00:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_specia.htm 18:00:19 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-172-233.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:00:28 *drewc* does not use specbot 18:00:38 stassats: thanks :) 18:01:10 <|3b|> well, considering that in other context where NIL is accepted as a stream designator, it means *standard-input* or *standard-output*, you probably wouldn't want to be CLOSEing those by accident :) 18:01:41 "Help! 11 nested errors." 18:02:52 <|3b|> though i guess since which it picks depends on whether it is used for input or output, there could be another interpretation for operations like CLOSE that don't do either 18:02:53 normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-194.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:44 "destination---nil, t, a stream, or a string with a fill pointer." ....NIL is of the specified type! :) 18:05:43 *drewc* does use (FORMAT NIL ...) a bit 18:06:29 Karla24 [~Karla24@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 18:07:18 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:29 <|3b|> right, FORMAT doesn't accept stream designators though :) 18:07:43 -!- Karla24 [~Karla24@95.141.20.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:49 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:09 nor does close! 18:10:24 *drewc* has just been looking at the docs, so needs a definition for "stream designator" ... sorry 'bout that :P 18:12:55 sellout- [~Adium@c-50-134-206-238.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:57 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 18:16:45 pnpuff [~l@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:17:03 -!- genericus [~genericus@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #lisp 18:19:02 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-102-75.w109-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 18:19:12 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has 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ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:39:04 WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 18:39:51 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:04 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9D047.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:28 cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.213.55] has joined #lisp 18:46:43 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 18:49:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:50:26 zlrth [~user@c-98-236-30-127.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:07 -!- zlrth [~user@c-98-236-30-127.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:51:11 Good morning all 18:52:08 -!- elfenixtorres [~vantage@170.Red-88-1-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 18:54:18 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 18:55:18 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 18:56:41 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 18:57:09 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:59:08 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:59:44 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:c698:a4a0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 19:01:28 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 19:02:05 Davidbrcz [~david@i16-les03-th2-5-48-246-200.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:02:23 -!- abunchofdollarsi [~abunchofd@l33t.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:02:46 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:03:16 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 19:04:39 CrazyWoods [~nowolfer@117.30.216.50] has joined #lisp 19:06:05 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:27 -!- sirdancealo3 [~koo5@194.228.11.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:06:49 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:12:51 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:48 M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@178-117-47-54.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:20:18 -!- WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has quit [Quit: WarWeasle] 19:20:56 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:26:53 cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:00 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:33 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:13 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:32:22 -!- M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@178-117-47-54.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: M00R1Z] 19:34:52 normanrichards [~textual@75.93.73.252] has joined #lisp 19:35:47 cheryllium: (every #'good-morning (|#lisp'ers|)) 19:35:58 haha 19:36:59 What happens if one of them returns NIL? 19:38:58 -!- Near [~Near@unaffiliated/near] has quit [Quit: Sayonara] 19:39:06 -!- normanrichards [~textual@75.93.73.252] has quit [Client Quit] 19:40:05 nyef: like "good Night, Independent Lispers"? 19:40:24 Can we assume that none of us are NIL? 19:40:43 flip214: have you seen my other patches or you just haven't time to apply them? 19:40:45 Heh. 19:41:45 Something I'm curious about would be what happens if you do an SBCL build --without-sbcl --with-nil 19:41:57 Would anything still run? 19:42:16 Nyef's Implementation of Lisp? 19:42:25 -!- ggkitsas [~ggkitsas@150.140.215.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42:32 Yes, yes. The standing joke. 19:43:31 there was New Implementation of Lisp, but it's time to rename it to OIL 19:43:58 Ah, the build dies quickly. "probable XC bug in host read-time conditional". 19:45:13 flip214: as in http://sourceforge.net/p/ecls/bugs/262/#0291 http://sourceforge.net/p/ecls/bugs/282/#9af9 http://sourceforge.net/p/ecls/bugs/275/#9ce1 19:46:11 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:50 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:47:37 -!- r0b2 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:48:40 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:37 Alfr [~Unknown@e179159078.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:00 -!- boogie [~boogie@cpe-76-174-188-141.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:03 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-226-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:17 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:53:37 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-2f10e575.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:54:15 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 20:00:38 normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 20:01:59 M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@178-117-47-54.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 20:02:49 -!- therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:03:46 Nicole30 [~Nicole30@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 20:03:48 urandom__ [~user@p20030056C87CC0DA3E970EFFFE524478.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:04:06 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@i16-les03-th2-5-48-246-200.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:04:19 -!- Nicole30 [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (Nicole30) 20:04:42 -!- M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@178-117-47-54.access.telenet.be] has quit [Client Quit] 20:06:06 therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has joined #lisp 20:08:08 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 20:09:44 Ok, this is driving me insane, I'm reading practical common lisp, and I'm in the chapter where we are building a portable layer to be used with pathnames and related utilities. In the exercise I'm told to create a new package to avoid conflicts (which I get), but for some reason I cannot access the functions I create. It tells me they are undefined. Here is the full code: http://pastebin.com/EcnyCvDd (40 lines). What am I doing wrong here? 20:10:51 what tells you they are undefined? when does it tell you that? 20:11:12 after I try to use them in the REPL 20:11:23 I would guess you try to use them in the repl, which is in package cl-user. 20:11:31 -, 20:11:37 -!- therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:11:56 but I DID call (in-package) in the REPL 20:12:08 do you use slime? 20:12:26 yes 20:14:03 -!- ggole [~ggole@220-253-164-14.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:14:12 what does your repl prompt look like? 20:14:35 at what stage? 20:16:13 when you get the error 20:17:22 this is the output: http://pastebin.com/mixMAnnp 20:17:26 Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-7149e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:19:06 you are indeed using the wrong package 20:19:08 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:19:40 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:00 21:14:12 < fiveop> what does your repl prompt look like? 20:20:01 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:20:32 doesn't really matter how it looks, since the package is clearly wrong 20:21:07 this is the output of the REPL when I load the file you guys saw an expression at a time: http://pastebin.com/n5v2Lfz2 20:21:15 everything seems OK... 20:22:11 Did you evaluate an in-package form from the buffer or did you actually type it into the repl? 20:22:21 BlobJoe: either change your package to COM.GIGAMONKEYS.PATHNAMES, or use COM.GIGAMONKEYS.PATHNAMES:PATHNAME-AS-DIRECTORY 20:22:38 or define a new package which uses COM.GIGAMONKEYS.PATHNAMES, and change the current package to that new package 20:23:31 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:25:10 therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has joined #lisp 20:26:18 well.. 20:26:29 i did everything in the REPL... and it worked... 20:26:37 whats the logic behind that? 20:27:58 Your repl is in a package. If you compile a file, the in-package form in that file won't affect that. 20:28:34 If you do everything in the repl, including evaluating the in-package forms, the package of your repl changes. 20:29:23 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:28 My slime version indicates the current package in the prompt, for example "CL-USER>" at startup. I don't know if that ever changed. 20:29:58 alright... makes sense... It wasn't working because even tho I used (in-package :com.gigamonkeys.pathnames), I didn't use (in-package cl-user) 20:30:05 no 20:30:06 mine doesn't, mine just shows a ? 20:30:44 (in-package :com.gigamonkeys.pathnames) in the repl should allow you to use functions form that package 20:30:50 from the repl 20:30:58 BlobJoe: you're not using the slime repl 20:31:20 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 20:31:47 What do you mean? 20:32:59 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 20:35:41 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:10 BlobJoe: ask somebody to help you set it up 20:36:13 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-78-76-233.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:36:47 BlobJoe: http://www.mohiji.org/2011/01/31/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ 20:37:43 can the newly sparked interest in slime make slime-fancy to enabled by default? 20:38:06 disabling it is the dumbest default i've ever seen 20:40:03 stassats: both applied, thanks. And you're now allowed to commit, too. 20:40:11 I may have seen a worse default, but it's not coming to mind... unless it's the debian habit of automatically starting services when you install software before you have a real chance to configure them. 20:40:23 dude, I have slime, I installed it myself. It may be lacking a few packages because I honestly don't care that much about REPLs and as soon as I get to know the language better will probably never touch the REPL again. 20:40:39 flip214: both? there were three! 20:40:53 BlobJoe: huh? 20:41:35 BlobJoe: do you mean once you know the language, you will be only writing programs, and not running them? 20:41:50 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-177-5.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:42:30 Not manually in the REPL no. I'll probably just use it for debugging at that point. 20:42:31 BlobJoe: i'm sorry to hear that. you don't seem to know much about the merits of lisp. 20:43:19 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:c698:a4a0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:23 slime by default is crippled to be near useless, you need to put (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) in .emacs 20:43:31 claymore [~claymore_@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #lisp 20:44:16 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:44:38 well, wouldn't say crippled, just very featureless 20:46:22 stassats: just wanted to see whether you're paying attention ;) thanks for all *3* 20:46:26 Davidbrcz [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 20:47:41 flip214: writing tests for them is left as an exercise for the maintainer 20:48:37 and ECL probably has a lot of petty bugs like that 20:50:09 -!- 8OWAAAAAT [~ben@199.241.30.80] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:51:13 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52:20 flip214: /bin/bash: ctags: command not found 20:55:53 Near [~Near@unaffiliated/near] has joined #lisp 20:56:25 stassats: try again, please. 20:56:37 stassats: how would I test for the style-warning? 20:56:38 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@e179159078.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:56 call an external ecl and look at its STDOUT? 20:57:39 (let (warning) (handler-bind ((style-warning (lambda (c) (setf warning c)))) ...) (assert warning)) 20:58:46 ah, right. even style-warnings are just a condition. 20:59:06 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:59:44 and I don't know the message - this is for 272, _avoiding_ the style-warning. 20:59:55 wouldn't *need* the message 21:00:36 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:44 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:11 nialo [~nialo@ool-2f10e575.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:37 I gotta say... SLIME fancy does look fancy. 21:07:53 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-10-69.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:58 cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-224-164.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 21:08:14 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9D047.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:11:59 :D 21:12:10 is it possible to expose values from a restart-case somehow? 21:12:57 You mean... accepting parameters to the restart? 21:12:59 I'm adding a 'use-nil restart to a babel decoding error condition in qmynd, and I would like to be able to expose the octets vector source to the application, which babel condition isn't doing 21:13:02 -!- BlobJoe [~alexandre@pa3-84-90-6-83.netvisao.pt] has left #lisp 21:13:03 any way around that? 21:15:14 I'm not sure I understand your requirements, and I'm somewhat unfamiliar with the use of babel. 21:15:43 I have the following simple test: (qmynd-impl::decode-octets-to-string (coerce #(209) '(vector (unsigned-byte 8)) ) :utf-8) 21:15:49 -!- ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:16:00 using the 'use-nil restart case (in the interactive debugger) it returns nil 21:16:15 when used in pgloader I would like to be able to log the octets, I don't know how 21:16:43 using #'(lambda (c) (pgstate-incf *state* (target mysql) :errs 1) (log-message :error "~a ~s" c octets) (invoke-restart 'qmynd-impl::use-nil)) is not working as "octets" is unknown at compile time in the lambda expression here 21:17:13 ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:14 And there's no slot such as OCTETS on the condition? 21:19:14 The object is a CONDITION of type BABEL-ENCODINGS:END-OF-INPUT-IN-CHARACTER. => BUFFER: #(209) POSITION: 0 ENCODING: :UTF-8 OCTETS: #(209) 21:19:57 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:20 I've been to quick to dismiss that information because it's not printed by default when using the format ~a on the condition then... mmm 21:20:20 -!- Near [~Near@unaffiliated/near] has quit [Quit: Sayonara] 21:21:19 so, (aref (babel-encodings:character-decoding-error-octets c) (babel-encodings:character-coding-error-position c)), but it may be more than one octet 21:21:22 Near [~Near@unaffiliated/near] has joined #lisp 21:22:20 yeah 21:22:24 (babel-encodings:character-decoding-error-octets c) 21:22:25 -!- Near [~Near@unaffiliated/near] has quit [Client Quit] 21:22:31 that allows access to the bad octets 21:22:45 Near [~Near@unaffiliated/near] has joined #lisp 21:22:57 I want to log the whole of them, for now 21:23:24 it's important enough information, and the day I'm logging kilo bytes of data that way I'm going to hear about it no doubt 21:23:36 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:23:59 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:28:56 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:18 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:c698:a4a0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 21:32:41 zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-178-003-170-169.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:40 yeah actually I like your idea better stassats, thanks 21:34:17 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 21:37:17 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Brb] 21:37:56 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 21:39:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:59 minion: note to FareWell: https://github.com/qitab/qmynd/pull/6 ;; I'd rather you vote on this before I push it, unless you want me to just go and maintain qmynd (I'd rather not, but depend on it now) 21:42:59 Remembered. I'll tell FareWell when he/she/it next speaks. 21:46:56 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 21:49:08 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.250.135] has joined #lisp 21:49:35 -!- marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:50:05 marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has joined #lisp 21:51:53 normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 21:52:36 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:57:46 wheelsucker [~wheelsuck@ip68-105-66-161.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:01 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:00:51 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:05:37 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:07:06 Monika24 [~Monika24@95.141.31.4] has joined #lisp 22:07:08 -!- vaporatorius 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[~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 22:27:48 -!- alexherb1 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-53.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 22:28:08 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-53.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:28:30 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:17 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-53.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 22:29:29 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-53.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:30:36 sirdancealo3 [~koo5@194.228.11.172] has joined #lisp 22:31:03 -!- Near [~Near@unaffiliated/near] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:32:49 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33:12 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:33:25 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:47 patbarron [~pat@pool-173-75-28-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:49 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:15 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 22:39:19 -!- marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has quit [Quit: ()] 22:40:09 marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has joined #lisp 22:44:33 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 22:47:49 stassats thanks for slime-fancy reference 22:49:42 pillton [~user@dsl-58-7-43-131.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:51:49 -!- AndiPersti [~AndiPerst@91-119-196-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:52:49 -!- cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.213.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:53:57 -!- boogie [~boogie@cpe-76-174-188-141.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:40 -!- nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:53 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one defines his own pprint-dispatcher does that get appended to the *print-pprint-dispatch* table ? 00:03:48 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:51 When trying (ql:quickload :caveman2) I receive error System "caveman2" not found. I can successfully load a package caveman with (ql:quickload :caveman) however. yet the caveman homepage says to load caveman2. what could be going on? 00:04:02 Sandy18 [~Sandy18@95.141.31.4] has joined #lisp 00:05:09 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4db43dcb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:17 -!- Sandy18 [~Sandy18@95.141.31.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:33 is caveman2 part of caveman ? 00:05:48 then it gets already loaded via the first.... 00:05:57 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:06:12 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 00:06:29 mk:oos ? 00:07:18 in elephant, does anyone know how i can remove a persistent class instance stored with defpclass? i know the library is a bit old, but it fits my needs pretty well for a small project. 00:07:24 -!- boogie [~boogie@cpe-76-174-188-141.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:26 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:07:37 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b12e5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:10 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 00:09:23 oleo I am not sure, on the caveman2 github it says that it is very different from caveman "1" 00:09:47 It also says to load using caveman2, so I'm not sure if it was included or if it only loaded caveman 1. I'm not sure how to figure this out either... 00:10:56 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:10 sohail [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:10 -!- sohail [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:11:10 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:12:37 -!- davazp [~user@167.Red-88-15-120.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:49 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-123.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:15:31 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-032-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 00:19:57 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:20:01 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:23:59 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 00:27:20 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:22 cheryllium: i just tried ql:quickload :caveman2 and it works from my ccl repl 00:30:18 boogie [~boogie@cpe-76-174-188-141.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:30:30 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:40 hmm that's strange, it's just me then... 00:30:47 here is the error I'm getting: http://pastebin.com/wb3b4S3U maybe that will shed some light 00:31:23 cheryllium: I probably can't help much just a noob will look though 00:32:05 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 00:33:43 cheryllium: I seem to remember getting errors like that on other libraries recently. I had to reinstall quicklisp and the errors went away- I think I had some sort of version mismatch 00:34:29 -!- boogie [~boogie@cpe-76-174-188-141.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:34:51 cheryllium: good luck I am off to sleep pat midnight here 00:35:42 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 00:36:36 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:37:28 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 00:37:42 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 00:42:55 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:17 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-yniftvvcddaetbjh] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 00:46:24 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [] 00:49:25 -!- impulse [~impulse@65.92.154.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:50:06 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:51:11 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1096587492.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:51:23 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 00:54:25 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 00:57:29 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 00:59:16 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:03 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.206.87] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 01:01:40 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:56 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:37 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:06:42 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 01:07:16 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-53.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 01:07:18 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 01:07:25 -!- harish_ [~harish@175.156.103.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:17:05 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@e179159078.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:19:12 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:00 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 01:21:58 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.192.20] has joined #lisp 01:30:49 pjd` [~user@75.160.177.78] has joined #lisp 01:30:59 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 01:33:06 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:26 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:12 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:41:42 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:42:06 drl_ [~lat@180.249.88.5] has joined #lisp 01:44:30 -!- varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-psqdpfsvqrliqgzm] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:46:25 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:46:28 address-book.lisp in package clim-demo compiles for me without error. But how do I run the program? 01:47:08 Trying to learm how to use mcclim. 01:47:57 sluidfoe [~sluidfoe@141.233.22.46] has joined #lisp 01:48:19 how do I uninstall quicklisp? I want to reinstall it but it tells me it is already installed 01:48:31 is there a way to completely remove what was installed and do a clean reinstall? 01:49:30 Xach ? 01:49:30 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has joined #lisp 01:50:31 cheryllium: what about rm -r ~/quicklisp/? but it will delete all installed packages as well 01:50:42 I am on windows 01:50:59 and I can't find the quicklisp folder... It's still searching though 01:51:14 harish_ [~harish@49.245.107.232] has joined #lisp 01:51:28 cheryllium: You can delete its folder. 01:51:33 Thanks! 01:52:06 (ql-setup:qmerge "") to see where that is 01:52:27 thank you 01:52:41 jbemmz [~jbemmz@71.197.31.179] has joined #lisp 01:53:09 i have a function that is wrapped in handler-case to warn on an error rather than drop to the debugger. i have a group of functions that take this error-ignoring function as a parameter. what is the best way to ensure these functions don't execute gracefully if the inner function fails? 01:53:26 err do execute gracefully 01:54:04 yay! mc40 was correct, I just needed to reinstall quicklisp. caveman2 loads now. 01:55:04 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:55:19 r0b2 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 01:55:45 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 01:55:47 Darn, I wish I saw the context. 01:56:14 zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a003:5181:f685:e835:a3e] has joined #lisp 01:56:38 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 01:57:23 minion, logs 01:57:23 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 01:58:00 ahh the paste is gone 01:59:45 cheryllium: it sounds possible that you had not updated quicklisp libraries. 01:59:54 a reinstall is a tough way to do that 02:00:03 ah, what is the proper way? 02:00:50 (ql:update-dist "quicklisp") will fetch all the latest available libraries. 02:00:58 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:02:14 spintronic [jovan@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:28 whoa so many people online right now... 02:02:53 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:02:56 I wonder what would be accomplished if all of us worked on the same project right...now 02:03:43 Ashley28 [~Ashley28@95.141.31.4] has joined #lisp 02:03:44 haha. nothing. 02:03:52 -!- Ashley28 [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (Ashley28) 02:03:56 thanks Xach 02:04:16 I wonder, does anyone here know of any caveman2 tutorials other than the readme on the github page? 02:04:23 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 02:05:46 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:59 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:06:41 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 02:07:06 The function CLIM-DEMO::ADDRESS-BOOK is undefined. 02:07:48 What must I type to get the program to run? 02:09:18 -!- harish_ [~harish@49.245.107.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:10:41 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:13:50 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9D047.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:20 how do i print a string if any error occurs on a function, rather than dropping to the debugger? 02:14:33 a real string to stdout, no warning 02:15:55 axion: handler-case on condition or error or such 02:16:24 yeah i'm using handler-case wrong it seems. only got it to use (warn) 02:16:34 *jaimef* hunts for the right way to download asdf packages 02:17:40 jaimef: quicklisp is a popular way. i don't know about "right" 02:17:52 -!- patbarron [~pat@pool-173-75-28-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:18:07 Xach: for mocl. wondering if I can use quicklisp to download the dists and just symlink 02:18:18 patbarron [~pat@pool-173-75-28-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:39 ah. dunno, sorry. maybe mocl support can suggest the right way. 02:18:53 yeah it says use adsf :P 02:18:59 asdf 02:19:25 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:21:29 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:31 What happens if you try to load quicklisp's setup.lisp with mocl? 02:24:39 :D 02:24:42 let me gist it 02:24:53 or provide you "remote access" :P 02:25:08 gist is good 02:25:34 the reason i ask is that quicklisp provides a way to load quicklisp systems via asdf, even if the other stuff doesn't work 02:25:55 zlrth [~user@c-98-236-30-127.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:29 https://gist.github.com/9317471 02:27:03 *jaimef* hunts for package "geometry" 02:27:41 https://github.com/xach/geometry/ is one location. 02:27:49 -!- K1rk_ [~Kirk@equinox.epecweb.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:28:04 jaimef: i don't understand that error, sorry. 02:28:21 (ql:quickload :geometry) was not finding it 02:28:23 maybe mocl's asdf is hacked up? asdf:oos is in my asdf and has been for a long time. 02:28:37 yeah their repl is a "hack" as they explained it to me 02:29:39 K1rk [~Kirk@equinox.epecweb.com] has joined #lisp 02:30:51 -!- sluidfoe [~sluidfoe@141.233.22.46] has left #lisp 02:32:40 normanrichards [~textual@71.20.68.56] has joined #lisp 02:34:37 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:55 -!- therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:35:13 therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has joined #lisp 02:38:01 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:38:47 "Examples/address-book.lisp Simple address book. See McCLIM's installation instructions." Where? I find no instructions on how to run the address book. 02:39:13 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:41:15 harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-klsfjukndokwbizp] has joined #lisp 02:43:59 -!- sirdancealo3 [~koo5@194.228.11.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:46:25 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f64950.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:47:46 -!- harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-klsfjukndokwbizp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:50:16 harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-tewxpoqivyzboxie] has joined #lisp 02:50:25 -!- scharan_ [~scharan@caps04.cs.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:50:58 scharan_ [~scharan@caps04.cs.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 02:54:23 -!- Bicyclidine [45a62f6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.166.47.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:55:16 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:57:03 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:17 -!- cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.213.55] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 02:58:37 prxq [~mommer@x2f6df9c.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 03:03:20 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:04:07 -!- urandom__ [~user@p20030056C87CC0DA3E970EFFFE524478.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:04:44 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:53 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 03:15:30 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 03:22:50 -!- CrazyWoods [~nowolfer@117.30.216.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:23:12 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23:48 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has joined #lisp 03:24:30 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:25:41 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 03:29:53 -!- normanrichards [~textual@71.20.68.56] has quit [] 03:35:36 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:01 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:41:47 aluuu [~aluuu@77.242.110.178] has joined #lisp 03:42:50 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:47:18 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 03:47:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:48:37 i have a FORMAT call to display an elapsed time in the format of "x days, y hours, z minutes". how can I tell it to not include values which are 0? 03:49:01 as well as the followed substring 03:53:46 (format nil "~[~;~:*~% days, ~]and so on" 0) 03:53:51 Or something like that. 03:54:08 clhs 22.3.7 03:54:08 FORMAT Control-Flow Operations: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cg.htm 03:54:12 thanks 03:55:02 You need a conditional to pick off the zero case, a default to pick off the rest of the cases, a go-to to recover the argument used for the conditional, and so on. 03:55:13 Did I say ~% days? Should have been ~D days. 03:55:29 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:55:32 Anyway, that should get you started, at least. 03:56:26 oh ok thank you 03:57:07 Good luck. (-: 03:59:33 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:23 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:51ac:767f:dcd6:77df] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:02:18 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:3586:1a83:7912:5b4e] has joined #lisp 04:03:44 Carmen24 [~Carmen24@95.141.31.4] has joined #lisp 04:04:58 -!- Carmen24 [~Carmen24@95.141.31.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:48 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-132-189.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:08:49 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:03 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 04:15:17 -!- bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 04:18:45 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:22:08 -!- nightfly [sage@destiny.cat.pdx.edu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 04:27:39 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:29:08 KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 04:32:37 -!- Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:35:38 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:36:22 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:16 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 04:40:29 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:40:29 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:44:07 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 04:47:37 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:49:00 vinian [~vinian@218.241.129.62] has joined #lisp 04:49:04 -!- vinian [~vinian@218.241.129.62] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:49:22 brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:35 vinian [~vinian@218.241.129.62] has joined #lisp 04:54:31 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 04:56:39 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 05:00:19 -!- wheelsucker [~wheelsuck@ip68-105-66-161.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 05:00:31 i am still having problems. i managed to get it working for days, but not the other 2. can you show me how to modify this to make it work for horus and minutes too? currently if days is 0, it is left off as expected, but if either hours/minutes are 0 it shows them as 0 instead of left off. i tried adding directives like hour has but end up with an empty string: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141452 05:00:45 rob3 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 05:00:55 err like days has 05:00:59 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:02:20 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:42 -!- r0b2 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:05:17 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:25 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:06:12 I'd suggest not trying to stuff it all into format. :) 05:06:17 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 05:06:39 hmm 05:11:01 -!- patbarron [~pat@pool-173-75-28-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Exiting HexChat] 05:11:21 axion: i would be wrapping in IF, using FORMAT for the sub-parts 05:12:13 ok 05:13:25 i'm kind of new to advanced format...been working at this all day. think i need to come back to it 05:14:25 Advanced format, much like advanced loop, is generally a bad idea. :) 05:14:30 i found with FORMAT that every time I need to do something complex, I have to look up the syntax again. 05:14:48 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:15:04 better to keep it simple 05:15:19 unless advanced FORMAT /is/ the simple option... ;-) 05:15:20 how do you suggest i construct this functionality? 05:15:23 -!- andyo [~andyo@108.62.62.234] has quit [Quit: Bye] 05:15:53 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:11 CONCATENATE 'STRING perhaps? using FORMAT for the bits your are concatenating? 05:16:27 WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING 05:17:28 you can also do a FORMAT within a FORMAT. i.e. use FORMAT to produce the bits needed by the outer FORMAT 05:17:28 thanks. i'll try some different apporaches 05:17:35 that could get confusing though perhaps 05:18:38 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19:55 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-226-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:21:44 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 05:22:42 nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 05:23:21 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 05:24:03 ok i found the problem...its with my format string that nyef helped with 05:24:07 (format nil "~[~;~:*~D day~:P, ~]" days) 05:24:13 only works if days is 1 05:24:20 0 or 2+ is "" 05:24:30 it should only be "" if days is 0 05:24:36 any ideas? 05:26:39 brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:52 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.250.135] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting -- bye] 05:30:31 andyo [~andyo@108.62.62.234] has joined #lisp 05:31:03 frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has joined #lisp 05:31:49 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 05:34:01 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:35:32 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 05:36:35 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 05:36:50 jerrychow [~jerrychow@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 05:37:07 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:28 -!- jerrychow [~jerrychow@58.245.253.218] has quit [Client Quit] 05:37:35 nevermind...done 05:37:40 http://paste.lisp.org/display/141452#1 05:38:18 optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 05:38:40 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-187-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:39:29 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:40:57 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:41:12 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:43:04 LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has joined #lisp 05:43:56 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 05:44:43 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has quit [Client Quit] 05:45:42 pranavrc_ [~pranavrc@122.164.46.96] has joined #lisp 05:46:49 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:47:32 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 05:48:33 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 05:48:48 -!- p_nathan1 [~Adium@c-24-18-244-51.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:49:39 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 05:54:24 Ok so it looks like epel has sbcl and ec2 supports epel and thus sbcl afaik. 05:54:29 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:07 Has anyone used EC2 for a Lisp web server and is there a minimum sized instance for it to run well? 05:55:33 Searching "lisp ec2" provides Lisp APIs to EC2, not using Lisp on EC2. 05:57:47 Normally when I can't find something out through searching, I'll just experiment with it, but that would cost money here. 06:02:53 It looks like Parenscript + CL-WHO + CL-CSS + Hunchentoot is the way to go with Common Lisp websites (although there's one alternative for CSS and many for HTML/XML), but I need some hardware to put some (hopefully) very low traffic sites on. If EC2 does in fact support SBCL through EPEL that would be great because I have an Amazon account, used a free trial a while ago, and use Fedora so I am biased toward rpm/yum distros. 06:03:45 Carmen25 [~Carmen25@95.141.31.4] has joined #lisp 06:03:55 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:04:17 -!- justinmcp [~quassel@198.199.115.124] has quit [] 06:04:43 justinmcp [~quassel@198.199.115.124] has joined #lisp 06:04:59 -!- Carmen25 [~Carmen25@95.141.31.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:10:02 -!- therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:12:47 AndiPersti [~AndiPerst@91-119-196-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 06:13:21 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 06:15:40 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 06:17:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:17:54 therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has joined #lisp 06:20:58 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:22:06 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rzdcccjxqbvslqfe] has joined #lisp 06:22:37 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:11 -!- Kazinator [~kaz@S0106687f7426d0eb.vc.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 06:33:15 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:52 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 06:36:18 -!- therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:36:25 Davidbrcz [~david@i16-les03-th2-5-48-246-200.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 06:37:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-226-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:38:05 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:08 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:41:49 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 06:42:18 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:42:57 -!- zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a003:5181:f685:e835:a3e] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:43:02 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:45:46 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-iygccbsuuvkhajig] has joined #lisp 06:45:46 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-iygccbsuuvkhajig] has quit [Changing host] 06:45:46 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:46:33 da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:47:22 -!- nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 06:47:58 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@i16-les03-th2-5-48-246-200.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:51:31 therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has joined #lisp 06:53:01 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-233.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:53:28 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:53:36 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:54:13 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:54:39 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:54:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:54:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has joined #lisp 06:54:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has quit [Changing host] 06:54:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:56:04 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:56:13 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 06:58:22 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 06:58:26 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-jbgqjtovfqnypllu] has joined #lisp 06:58:48 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:17 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wdpgermrxehtnddz] has joined #lisp 07:00:29 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:00:46 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 07:03:50 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:04:45 has anyone here tried cl-launch? 07:05:03 I'm trying to push CL as a scripting language, via #!/usr/bin/cl 07:06:28 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:07:23 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:09:16 aeth: i don't think there is a good, regularly updated rpm source for sbcl 07:09:26 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:10:20 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 07:10:20 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:10:36 Fare: clisp is good for scripting, clisp -norc -q -q -i foo.lisp -x "..." 07:11:14 short startup time 07:11:38 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:12:11 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-nlnevhfxdtamxskr] has joined #lisp 07:12:14 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-nlnevhfxdtamxskr] has quit [Changing host] 07:12:14 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:12:19 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wdpgermrxehtnddz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:13:56 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.14] has quit [Quit: h] 07:14:38 -!- pranavrc_ [~pranavrc@122.164.46.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:14:40 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-nhtvrghkplwvhxsz] has joined #lisp 07:16:36 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.14.173] has joined #lisp 07:16:36 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.14.173] has quit [Changing host] 07:16:36 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 07:18:20 well, for scripting, I have this issue 07:18:59 I have *big* source registry, so whenever I need anything from asdf, it wastes one second to walk all those directories at startup. 07:19:25 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:20:31 Sounds like a job for a SSD. :) 07:23:37 -!- AndiPersti [~AndiPerst@91-119-196-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:24:13 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:25:10 SSD? 07:25:15 I *have* an SSD. 07:25:19 Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 07:25:43 Is it one of those ones that's crap for random access? :) 07:25:46 Lisp is just slow at doing all those unnecessary TRUENAMEs, conversions to/from Unicode, etc. 07:25:51 Ah. 07:26:06 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:25 On SBCL, I managed to disable most TRUENAMEs, but it's still dog slow. 07:26:38 Assuming CL ever moves on, one of the first things to do will be to get rid of pathnames. :) 07:26:52 One of the second things to do should be to get rid of characters and mutable strings. :) 07:27:05 I suppose I could try to cache the results, and lazily walk the tree and/or invalidate it, but that's a lot of additional complexity 07:27:19 get rid of Lisp, too. 07:27:32 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-106-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:42 Well, it might be that it's become largely redundant. 07:27:52 Most of the good ideas seem to have been well mined out. 07:28:49 Some of the more fundamental ideas, like macros, have been shown to be of dubious benefit. 07:29:55 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.207.71] has joined #lisp 07:29:55 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.207.71] has quit [Changing host] 07:29:55 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 07:30:03 I disagree. 07:30:15 I've spent some time at work on Python, and was appalled. 07:30:32 I was expecting a decent language, but it's like a retard's Lisp. 07:30:33 I don't think that's a relevant argument. 07:31:10 Unless you want to talk about their approach to macros. 07:31:24 most of its flaws could have been addressed on the user side by a judicious use of macros... except they were unavailable. 07:31:35 They're available; just hard to use. 07:31:50 same difference? 07:31:54 Not exactly. 07:32:05 I mean, even MASM has macros. 07:32:29 The argument basically goes like this -- macros make it easy to write individualized code; individualized code makes it hard to read in general. 07:32:39 Zhivago: in Dylan, we have s which are close to CL pathnames in some ways ... we're planning to likely ditch them this year for something far simpler / more sane. 07:32:50 So there's a balance between the two. 07:32:56 functions make it easy to write individualized code; individualized code makes it hard to read in general 07:33:08 hell, programs make it easy to write individualized code; individualized code makes it hard to read in general 07:33:10 No, functions don't change the structure of the language. 07:33:22 a non-programmable piece of rock is more uniform 07:33:35 yes, functions do change the structure of the language. 07:33:47 So, ideally what you want is something where the language is good enough that macro-extensions should be rarely desired. 07:33:49 there is no substitute for judicious use of the features of any tool 07:34:26 The problem is that most people are lousy judges. :) 07:34:37 the way to make macro-extensions rarely desired is to allow them, and let all the low-hanging fruits be picked by thousands of users. 07:34:41 the problem is that most people are lousy programmers 07:34:44 zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:b003:8088:deed:4fce:9b5c] has joined #lisp 07:34:58 Not to cut the legs of users and prevent them from reaching any fruit. 07:35:15 then don't hire "most people". 07:35:32 Fare: you can shorten that advice to "don't hire" 07:35:33 :D 07:35:38 :) 07:35:50 or to "Don't". 07:36:04 or then again, to "Do". 07:36:48 but there is some truth to the argument that powerful tools make it easy to get screwed if you, as an organization, cannot effectively control what software is written and put into production by your workers 07:37:17 i am not quite sure, though, whether the choice of programming language is really the key to success here, though 07:37:31 bad workers will manage to screw up the organization using any programming language 07:38:37 I think that the key point is the ratio between 'shallow reading' and 'deep reading' required at the organization. 07:38:51 The more deep reading is expected, the less macros cost. 07:39:14 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:29 if as an organization you don't control the software that's written, you'll be in trouble with any language. 07:39:50 Fare: goto fail; 07:40:00 pranavrc_ [~pranavrc@122.164.110.248] has joined #lisp 07:40:05 see my http://fare.livejournal.com/171998.html 07:40:21 -!- zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:b003:8088:deed:4fce:9b5c] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:40:23 H4ns, some languages really are worse than others. 07:40:28 of course. 07:41:14 i had two days of headache trying to read code in a language that i understood well. 07:41:18 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:41:26 one was a day trying to get grips with a perl program 07:41:31 the other was with a common lisp program 07:42:02 not that this proves anything. or even means something :) 07:42:10 I've met my share of three-comma programmers. http://www.cliki.net/Three%20Comma%20Programmer 07:42:17 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:43:29 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:44:03 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 07:44:39 When I took over asdf, I had no freaking idea how its TRAVERSE algorithm worked. It took me several years of refactoring and the work on understanding antifuchs' POIU before I could fully understand the good and the bad about it. Now I understand that Dan Barlow didn't have that much more of an idea, either. He was onto something, but satisfied with whatever simple thing seemed to work in the common case. 07:44:49 so he could do something else. 07:45:31 in a way, I'm not as clever as he was 07:45:55 to be able to be deliberately stupid, so you can be better in other ways 07:49:20 ...especially when this whole issue of representing and loading program code from randomly chopped up strings of characters is the wrong problem to work on... :) 07:49:51 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-10.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:00 :-( 07:50:06 your work on ASDF was very useful though! it's just that we're functioning at the wrong level... 07:50:22 That's not how I see it. 07:50:39 The thing that makes ASDF useful is not the glueing chopped up strings, 07:50:45 it's the glueing people. 07:50:49 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:50:59 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:51:07 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-nhtvrghkplwvhxsz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:51:08 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-233.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:51:09 yeah, that's a fair enough perspective. 07:51:38 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:51:46 aquinas [~aquinas_@unaffiliated/aquinas] has joined #lisp 07:52:04 -!- aquinas [~aquinas_@unaffiliated/aquinas] has left #lisp 07:53:45 there's this interesting question... whether to leave the crowds of programmers behind and do your stuff better, or stay digging the dirt together in the hopes that wider cooperation will compensate for the silliness... where's the sweet spot on the exponential return of better foundations...? 07:54:19 this applies as much to java/lisp as to common-lisp/anything-more-reasonable 07:56:04 well, "better" basically means "is it fun" 07:56:23 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 07:56:40 it is not clear whether that "better" automatically makes the results better from the viewpoint of the organization that creates or uses the software. 07:56:52 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-htastlkehderfugx] has joined #lisp 07:57:30 jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-123.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:58:12 the goal of a build system is to enable division of labor, not to manage software. 07:58:46 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:58:52 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 07:59:06 inasmuch as ASDF2 then ASDF3 are better than ASDF1, which itself is better than MK-DEFSYSTEM, that is better than manual load scripts, is because it makes writing, distributing and using libraries easier. 07:59:09 writing a "better" build system for common lisp clearly is a collossal task and the jury is out to decide whether it is actually a feasible project. 07:59:26 XCVB was better than ASDF1. 07:59:33 "haha" 07:59:55 but not sufficiently better to justify a switch, I suppose. 08:00:14 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:55 it failed on the "backward compatibility" part, badly 08:01:00 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:26 not *that* badly — there was an automated conversion script, that worked on most projects. 08:01:27 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-htastlkehderfugx] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:01:37 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has joined #lisp 08:02:04 and there were bridges both ways, so you could mix and match. 08:02:34 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 08:02:57 where it really failed, I think, was on the cognitive load issue — it required learning stuff, much more stuff, than more Lisp hackers care about. 08:03:13 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:03:15 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:03:37 not that many lisp hackers manage the build of a million line project. 08:03:45 Crystal29 [~Crystal29@95.141.31.4] has joined #lisp 08:03:56 for better or worse. 08:04:11 not many lisp hackers want to deal with issues coming from projects of that size 08:04:30 exactly. And that's a self-fulfilling prophecy 08:04:35 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-hbvnmkbjjyuqosvz] has joined #lisp 08:05:00 -!- Crystal29 [~Crystal29@95.141.31.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:05:02 the project got that size also in part because it was mismanaged by people who thought in terms in man-year and short-term deadlines. 08:05:08 and empire-building. 08:05:18 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:41 instead of good architecture and modular design 08:05:59 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 08:08:05 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:08:24 ggole [~ggole@106-68-11-185.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:08:55 going back to XCVB, at the time it was written, there was really no hope for progress on the ASDF side. ASDF was an unsortable mess. Five years later, ASDF has been sorted out, and if I had to do it today, I'd evolve it into an ASDF4 that has the features of XCVB while maintaining backward compatibility with the ASDF series. I even explained how to do that in the TODO file. 08:09:25 Of course, it crucially relies on the refactoring that happened with ASDF3, which itself was informed by my experience with XCVB. 08:11:06 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:2f10:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 08:12:00 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:2f10:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:12:18 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:2f10:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 08:13:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:18:03 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:21:02 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:21:49 -!- dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@cpc3-finc13-2-0-cust253.4-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:22:26 hi 08:22:28 fzappa [~user@204-159-77-217.fttx.luna.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:50 Fare: ideas about https://github.com/qitab/qmynd/pull/6, like should I click the "Merge pull request" button? 08:25:47 dim: you know, since asedeno and I have both been pulled from the project, and mysql even then was just a stopgap in migrating code from Oracle... we are a fine couple of absentee maintainers 08:25:54 you patch looks more than fine, though 08:26:12 it's a simple, clean and effective refactoring. 08:26:14 congrats 08:26:19 I didn't know you'd been pulled out from the project, ok 08:26:31 that explains a thing or two 08:26:33 the project has been pulled out of us 08:26:36 oh. 08:27:00 so you just had the chance/reflex to publish on github before it's too late, but that's about it? 08:27:35 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:27:53 so if you have $1e8 and want to spend a nice fraction of it on a nice airline reservation system with an application server written in Lisp, you know whom to call 08:28:27 it was already slated for publication. It just got published before it got a change to go to production. 08:28:40 but publishing was always the intent. 08:29:03 See the situation with quux, where we published a big blob as a tarball 08:29:10 -!- gmcastil [~user@97-124-168-220.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:29:17 and started a project to migrate working bits into it. 08:30:36 I'm happy that you didn't spend much of the budget working around MySQL deficiencies btw, as you know my only use case for qmynd is fully-automated migration from MySQL to PostgreSQL 08:31:26 the main question that remains is should I consider myself a maintainer of qmynd now that you gave me the commit bit, or should I just hack around and send patches and PR then bother you on IRC? 08:32:03 yacks [~py@122.179.97.23] has joined #lisp 08:33:17 yeah, I think most people preferred PostgreSQL, but the case for MySQL was that there was a heavily hacked managed stable variant of MySQL running quite reliably on our servers, and no such thing for PostgreSQL. 08:33:48 (itself an evolution of an earlier $$$ acquisition, IIUC) 08:33:49 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:33:55 you don't need to heavily hack PostgreSQL to have a stable variant of it 08:34:02 just grab the public sources 08:34:04 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:21 yes, but the work was already done and vouched for at the employer's. 08:34:34 oh, technical debt smells 08:34:38 integration to the borg is key. 08:34:57 it's like with pocker, you need to know when to stop piling up money when you realize you will only lose it 08:34:58 yeah, it reeks like crazy, at an unimaginable scale 08:35:09 and yet, it moves, and how it does! 08:35:26 integration with borg you say... 08:35:37 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:36:10 and frankly, Google, bad as it is with technical debt, seems much better at handling it than most big companies I've seen, by far. Low standards, maybe. 08:36:13 so ok I'm pushing my little patch and will consider just pushing directly to the main qmynd repository in the future, maybe, rather than having an intermediary step with my own fork (I should probably dismiss it now) 08:36:38 yeah, you should probably push directly. 08:36:45 Fare: thank you for confirming my ideas about Google's MySQL being a franken-rdbms ;) 08:37:08 p_l: confirmation bias. If I really knew the details, I might not be authorized to tell. 08:37:25 hehe 08:37:36 I wish Google developers had more of a clue about what makes a proper RDBMS and when to use it, so that they would contribute to PostgreSQL rather than reinventing random pieces of it here and there 08:37:59 dim: not just about proper DBMS, not just about that. 08:38:10 to each his own angle ;-) 08:38:20 Google is a mix of appalling and AMAZING. 08:38:35 more AMAZING, on the average, I believe. 08:38:37 the RDBMS one exists everywhere not just at Google, Google is just a big example of that 08:38:38 dim: I think Postgres has a bit of different priorities than the systems typically running at google, at least as far as I managed to sniff out 08:39:00 p_l: they still keep reinventing bits of it 08:39:19 dim: not much of Postgres code would be applicable to their platform 08:39:21 it looks like it would be cheaper for Google to just run PostgreSQL in production and contribute to the thing 08:39:27 ahah. 08:39:34 that's a very good one, thanks ;-) 08:39:39 OLTP RDBMS is not in the Google DNA. Google is all about scaling, more massively than you imagine. 08:40:03 and OLTP is not. That said, in recent years, Google has made strides. 08:40:06 p_l: saying not much of PostgreSQL code can help you manage data is like saying there's not muco code in SBCL that could help you write programs ;-) 08:40:11 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:32 they are reinventing transactional data access layers 08:40:37 from what I can see 08:40:39 and yes, it has scalable solutions to OLTP RDBMS, or will have it soon. 08:40:54 yes, they are — but at a massive unprecedented scale 08:41:04 dim: the problem is that at best they'd replace the MySQL bits, which afaik are already small contained islands in the sea of Google 08:41:06 I'm saying that contributing to PostgreSQL until it scales the Google way looks to me way cheaper than what they are doing now 08:41:37 not having a clear vision of where you want to go does that yes 08:41:39 dim: the "reinvented" bits are apparently RDBMS running on top of their internal database tools (not MySQL) 08:42:06 ah, if only they had a look at what a Foreign Data Wrapper is in PostgreSQL 08:42:14 which frankly speaking is very, very different from the environment Postgres, even Postgres-XC, does, *including FDW* 08:42:27 Google always goes for the low-hanging fruit. And it doesn't have a far technical view of what's low-hanging — but a good commercial view. 08:43:44 Google also has quite a bit of NIH syndrome — because "low hanging" is warped by the constraint of "within the borg infrastructure". 08:43:54 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:12 dim: Postgres, including Postgres-XC, are rather tightly coupled setups. Doesn't mean it's bad, but tight local coupling does not sound like what Google wants (so you'd have to rewrite bits of query planner, probably do huge replacement of storage layer to use other parts of the stack, etc. 08:44:29 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has joined #lisp 08:44:31 and yes, it's better to use something that will integrate with local stack 08:44:37 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:45:16 have you read about Logical Replication coming into PostgreSQL 9.4? 08:46:03 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:46:21 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 08:46:58 dim: I suspect that one thing that might have made MySQL more palatable is that certain bits of it were easier to replace (pluggable storage drivers, bane of normal MySQL users compared to Postgres, but useful when you have storage layer that isn't exactly a POSIX FS) 08:47:08 -!- mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 08:47:26 -!- harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-tewxpoqivyzboxie] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:47:53 mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:47:53 -!- mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:48:29 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:50:19 (I bet, though, on someone back in 2000 simply picking MySQL for bits of AdWords) 08:50:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-251.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:51:33 and frankly speaking, MySQL for a time had been "easier to start", especially around 2000 where for some reason installation instructions covered manually setting up all env variables etc. :D 08:52:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has joined #lisp 08:52:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has quit [Changing host] 08:52:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:52:49 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:52:59 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:53:10 mysql is to databases what windows is to OSes 08:53:46 dim: no, not windows. MacOS *Classic* 08:54:13 I didn't experience that one 08:54:26 or if anything, MySQL is to databases what grey masses of windows applications are to the poor guys coding windows' core :> 08:55:07 (statistical windows programmer apparently either never had seen real documentation or could not understand the big words like "reserved for future use") 08:57:21 dim: n.b. Postgres is one of the few places I actually found myself welcoming node.js :D 08:57:38 imagine, Parenscript-generated stored procedures :D 09:00:29 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-224-164.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:01:41 -!- vinian [~vinian@218.241.129.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:44 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.226] has joined #lisp 09:04:45 well I learnt recently that an int taking more than 56 bits gets turned automatically into a float in node.js, and the pg driver does that even if the *value* fits 09:07:22 ltbarcly [~textual@80.179.186.2.forward.012.net.il] has joined #lisp 09:09:19 dim: I probably wouldn't be using it for big numbers, of course 09:09:44 (probably any "complex" type would be already transformed into string for delivery elsewhere) 09:09:45 Poenikatu [~kvirc@host-89-240-251-24.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:45 -!- Poenikatu [~kvirc@host-89-240-251-24.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:09:45 Poenikatu [~kvirc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has joined #lisp 09:09:58 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.192.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:20 well SELECT 1::bigint; turns into a float in node.js, I don't know about PL/v8 tho 09:10:29 it's apparently much, much faster than PL/PgSQL 09:10:40 no wonder 09:10:47 dim: well, everything depends on data you are going to manipulate 09:10:50 the only advantage of PL/PgSQL is that SQL is first class 09:11:10 what about PL/ECL or something, that said? 09:11:11 not really an advantage. SQL sucks. 09:11:24 SQL is awesome, I suspect you don't know how to use it 09:11:42 Fare: do you know about window functions? 09:11:59 Fare: it does its job well, although lack of *practical* standardization of certain bits and unwieldy syntax of some of the others is well... annoying 09:12:13 I have a strong contempt for RDBMS. http://fare.livejournal.com/121708.html 09:12:28 the SQL standard is a bad joke, but no more than the HTML one 09:12:29 have you looked at datomic? Now we're talking 09:12:39 I'm using slime 2013-11-17 and the quick reference card says that C-c C-f will describe a function. Well, that key sequence is undefined. Does the new slime define that key sequence? I've checked its quick reference card and the entry is still there, but does it work? I'm using Debian/GNU Linux jessie with Emacs 24.3.1 and sbcl 09:13:27 Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-etx-mapped-0001.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 09:13:35 Fare: your article misses two important things, one of them being that you seem not to understand what an RDMS is all about 09:13:58 slime-describe-function C-c C-d f, C-c C-d C-f 09:14:06 datomic? a poor man's MVCC for a single programing language? no thanks 09:14:25 dim: well, if it fits... 09:14:35 what's funny about datomic and the immutability is that PostgreSQL's MVCC and VACUUM system is an implementation of thats and has been for decades already 09:14:44 but well, go reinvent it again 09:14:57 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-wxwlweiuwyfrwcfd] has joined #lisp 09:15:35 dim: my favourite NoSQL database is from 1960s ;) 09:15:35 dim: you are very much in love with your tool 09:15:47 the main service an RDMS is offering is concurrent access to data, by the way, then you have ACID to define the semantics of that concurrent access 09:16:29 dim: don't forget enforcing structure and constraints on the data (otherwise there's no need for the R) 09:16:30 H4ns: I'm easy to start when I see developers that dismiss what an RDMS has to offer and go to reinvent it poorly, yeah 09:16:39 Fare: Thanks a lot. That works. Now we have to change the Quick Reference Card 09:16:49 p_l: I see that as a mean, not a goal 09:16:58 dim: let me put on my java hat and tell all of you that i have so much to offer. 09:17:02 dim: let's agree to disagree here — I think RDBMS people have no clue what a database is all about, but datomic does. It's no "poor man's", it's cheap and ubiquitous. 09:17:48 and it's not more "single language" than PL/SQL or PL/PgSQL --- the difference being that it's a vast number of order of magnitudes better a single language. 09:17:52 and Relational is to understand as in maths, where a relational set of elements guarantees that all elements in the set look alike (all the same tuple data type in RDMBS slang), that has nothing to do with 'relationnal constraints' such as FK 09:18:28 "Relational" is completely, totally bogus. 09:18:41 sword [~sword@2601:7:1900:f4:e2cb:4eff:fef7:a13] has joined #lisp 09:18:57 Fare: when you program in PL/SQL, yes. But most of the time, those should be relegated to be helper functions... instead of the horrors that developers wrote (even if they call themselves DBA) 09:19:21 well I tend to like SQL as a language to process data, and PostgreSQL as a service to allow concurrent access to that data, you know, and when needed I know I can resort to PL/Java or PL/Python or more 09:19:27 *p_l* dealt with a system written in PL/SQL with a bit of Java, all inside Oracle. not thanks) 09:19:33 *no thanks 09:19:38 It's not about Math. It's about making the tool super complex, and optimizing for the useless case of an immutable database, while at the same time having no fucking clue about the atomicity model of the database that completely invalidates the alleged "mathematics". 09:20:17 It's just as much about mathematics as numerology is science. Misuse of mathematics where it doesn't apply at all. 09:20:17 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-177-5.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:20:17 I don't know what you're talking about here Fare, sure sounds like someone who made up his mind with Oracle and MySQL and think PostgreSQL did the same when it didn't 09:20:54 sometime, have a look at SSI in PostgreSQL, if your bag is concurrency 09:20:56 Fare: since when the database is immutable? And yes, SQL operates on *sets* (not iterating on rows) 09:21:09 http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/SSI 09:21:10 (or even optimized for immutable) 09:21:24 and the "representation independence" is a joke. To achieve any amount of performance, reproductibility, etc., people end up manually "optimizing" their queries and doing their indexes, thereby using SQL as a low-level query language, just having put the cart before the horse. 09:21:52 maybe http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Serializable is more on the level of what you want to read, even 09:22:01 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:22:42 Fare: indexes a. are not covered by the SQL standard and b. are to be designed by de developers when they design their queries 09:22:53 sure, database people start from a completely inconsistent and incoherent view of the world, then try to bring back sanity, meanwhile boasting how they can get useless results superfast 09:22:58 and you just never used PostgreSQL it seems 09:23:15 (but still doing the basic job, because that's where the money is, just badly and slowly) 09:23:25 it's fun to talk with you, I much prefer when you talk about something you know about, tho 09:23:42 From all I can tell, PostgreSQL is heads above competition. That's still a very low bar. 09:23:58 someday, try to understand what it's doing and how, then we'll talk 09:24:21 H4ns: thanks for the Java troll offering anyway ;-) 09:24:25 dim: All I see you doing is saying how he doesn't know anything while also not explaining anything. Come on. 09:24:51 Shinmera: I didn't expect the discussion to go well anyway. Maybe face to face with a whiteboard and some tea 09:24:57 and crumpets 09:25:01 Whatever makes PostgreSQL good --- it's not the SQL part. 09:25:15 Shinmera: I agree I'm not plyaing it fair here, but I'm trying to have Fare admit he should stop pretending he already knows about the topic, because that's the only way I know to get to learn something new 09:25:21 Actually, Ingres started without SQL. SQL was tucked in later for buzzword compliance. 09:25:36 no 09:26:00 can you two go fuck yourselves now? 09:26:07 it was added in 1995 by a couple of Chinese hackers who realized that it was too late to do RDMNS without SQL now 09:26:29 H4ns: I prefer when you say off-topic, but I guess I see what you mean 09:26:36 p_l: A tea and crumpets extension for IRC would certainly be welcome. 09:27:51 don't forget the whiteboard. with thin writing tools 09:30:30 -!- bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nigzrepwdxiuycbg] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 09:30:33 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:3586:1a83:7912:5b4e] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:31:48 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:3586:1a83:7912:5b4e] has joined #lisp 09:33:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:33:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-251.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:33:57 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 09:34:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has joined #lisp 09:34:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has quit [Changing host] 09:34:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:34:47 is there a way in hunchentoot to only accept SSL connection if the client has a fully validated SSL certificate? or is that done at the client level only? 09:35:23 that is done at the ssl level, but i don't think we have support for it. 09:35:55 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:36:05 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 09:36:44 ok, will document that a proxy is needed to enable trusted communication 09:37:31 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-135-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:40:56 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:48 stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has joined #lisp 09:42:47 ok, let's not flamewar about trust and ssl CAs — the milk-the-idiots, make it easy for governments to snoop model of "trust". Give me SSH or Kerberos any day instead. 09:43:10 Fare: yes please, let's not do that. 09:43:20 dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@46-65-53-22.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:43:30 you can have fully-validated client and server certificates with your own SSL certs, no need for an external CA, have I ben explained 09:43:41 harish_ [~harish@175.156.103.195] has joined #lisp 09:44:03 clearly tho I know about nothing about all that, so if you know how to enable trusted communication over http in between two hosts I'm all ears 09:44:37 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:44:56 situation is a build server getting build orders and offering back a binary artifact, possibly containing a dynamic library (.so) 09:45:57 I'm not considering the binary artifact itself yet, only trusting the communication has been made to a "friendly" build server, and it seems to me that self authenticated (you're your own CA) SSL certs is the way to go 09:50:37 raeon [~raeon@D9798437.cm-3-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 09:50:41 sirdancealo3 [~koo5@194.228.11.172] has joined #lisp 09:51:01 ivan_ [~ivan@46-65-53-22.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:53:17 assuming SSL, it is. 09:53:51 and making sure your configuration is not letting you trust anything else. 09:54:32 which probably means a custom client and/or server 09:54:36 -!- dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@46-65-53-22.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:54:43 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@176.238.47.182] has joined #lisp 09:54:53 which then makes me wonder... why https, then, but oh well, good day/night. 09:56:02 or you could use ssl purely to avoid eavesdropping, and use any kind of non-CA authentication on top of that. Even passwords. 09:56:25 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-223-10-69.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:56:45 a pki is still useful if you want to avoid distributing access information to all parties. 09:57:03 password is a poor authentication mean for programs, password are made for interactive (human) auth 09:57:34 H4ns: without some kind of certificate distribution, he'd be trusting the public registrars. 09:57:40 That's often not acceptible. 09:57:49 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:57:50 yeah I want to restrict who's in 09:57:53 loke_: not at all. 09:58:18 loke_: there is nothing in "pki" that requires using some public registrar 09:58:22 so I think I will just offload that problem, with the excuse that anyways you need an SSL proxy (hunchentoot not being able to handle the whole range of needed features here) 09:58:26 H4ns: That's what I said 09:58:37 pki = certificate distribution 09:58:38 dim: good idea 09:58:39 jerrychow [~jerrychow@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 09:58:42 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 09:59:00 loke_: ah - right, you need to distribute your ca cert, but you'll not have to distribute your client authentication info 09:59:08 H4ns: exactly 09:59:12 yeah, I still need to know that a trusted setup is *possible* to achieve in a way that allows me to use http to communicate 09:59:42 dim: Is this between companies or within a company? 10:00:04 you need to ship client certs that have been signed by the central ca cert or something, right, so that only the central server can issue new client certs? 10:00:10 -!- jerrychow [~jerrychow@58.245.253.218] has quit [Client Quit] 10:00:17 loke_: not me to answer that, both will be seen I guess 10:00:20 is it peer to peer or only centralized server? In the latter case, you only need have a special CA for your server, and then each client can have whatever secret shared with the server. 10:00:31 I'm working on the software, I won't be the one who deploys it 10:00:44 for peer to peer, then yes some kind of pki becomes useful 10:01:16 it could get to be peer to peer, but the main model is centralized (a single repository server and a farm of build servers) 10:01:44 MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:01:49 if you want to agnostic to network topology, etc., then rather make it a system based on encrypted messages a la PGP. 10:02:37 dim: interesting, because Google is also developing this general kind of technology 10:02:40 I think I would only need PGP signatures, not encryption 10:03:06 dim: have the build servers "pin" the certificate for server (or private CA), and deploy certs to build servers as "identity" file 10:03:18 dim: yes, the encryption can be just your regular link encryption 10:03:18 well encryption could be done at the SSL level I mean, and I could choose PGP rather than SSL CA chains for enabling trusted communication 10:03:36 exactly 10:03:37 But dim is really after authentication rather than encryption, isn't he? 10:03:38 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:04:10 yes, main thing here is auth 10:04:21 dim: Personally I don't see *that* much difference between private CA setup and PGP (something still has to ship trust lists), and cert-based authentication is well known 10:04:31 then again, if you want to ship internal libs, maybe you want to crypt 10:04:34 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-gemsrvgonkjteqso] has joined #lisp 10:04:48 dim: given that you don't seem to know too much about the topic, i'd suggest that you choose something established. or, as you've already said, not choose anything but push the problem to the infrastructure provider. 10:04:54 either we have to ship public keys or public certs, right? 10:04:55 dim: in both PGP and SSL, you end up with what is essentially private CA 10:05:25 you can have signed SSH keys nowadays, too. perhaps tunneling via one of these (and requiring 127.0.0.1) is easier? 10:05:26 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl13-202-216.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:05:29 dim: given that a cert is pretty much equivalent of PGP's public key + signatures... 10:05:41 H4ns: yeah, I just need to know that my current choices are not going to paint me into a corner where solving the problem becomes impossible because of, say, hunchentoot or HTTP communication 10:05:44 Near [~Near@unaffiliated/near] has joined #lisp 10:05:54 that's why I'm doing HTTP here btw, so that I can say "add an SSL proxy and be done" 10:06:00 dim: cl+ssl supports certificate-based authentication 10:06:14 p_l: apparently hunchentoot doesn't know how to drive that 10:06:15 (yet) 10:06:52 dim: you've not stated your requirements quite right i think 10:06:55 at worst you'll need *minimal* amounts of hacking to add some hooks, and you can add support for hunchentoot by writing your own acceptors 10:06:57 the underlying technology is the same, it's just that beside being designed by committee, the CAs come with their own scam of a default trust model, whereas pgp lets you face the hard truth that trust is hard. 10:07:12 dim: hunchentoot does know how to use a server-side cert. if you are not interested in client authentication, you're all set. 10:07:40 Maria22 [~Maria22@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 10:07:47 -!- Maria22 [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (Maria22) 10:08:36 H4ns: I want to restrict who's allowed to talk to the server, when talking to the server means publishing binary libs to it (repo server, client is a build server) 10:09:06 dim: ok, so you need to make sure that a valid client certificate is presented, which might not be readily available right now. 10:09:09 dim: You can check the peer certificate from the server 10:09:17 dim: SSL goes both ways 10:09:25 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@80.179.186.2.forward.012.net.il] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:09:27 squee1 [~aj@110-174-50-177.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:09:27 dim: you can code your server so that socket accept() etc. is done by your code, which can verify the certs, check if they are signed etc. before passing the socket to hunchentoot to talk HTTP over it 10:09:29 dim: although when i say "may", i am not absolutely sure. it would be a simple thing to implement. 10:09:38 That said, there are limitations in CL+SSL that makes that hard. But it's possible by accessing internal methods in CL+SSL 10:09:42 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:10:02 e 10:10:23 wasn't nyef rewriting cl+ssl due to excessive frustration with it? 10:10:26 loke_: my perception upon trying to add SSL cert login to cl-irc is that it's not that hard. Verification/lookup of machine by cert might be a bit harder on server side 10:11:04 p_l: Right. But what you want to do is to, on the server side, check the peer certificte (i.e. the client's cert) to make sure the client is allowed to connect 10:11:12 currently I have some struggles to define a proper API where only the central repository server has a database access, then exchange the right level of information to the build server --- the fully decentralized (peer-to-peer) model is very attractive on that front, and I might just then use GPG keys 10:11:54 ... do we have a good DNS (with DNSSEC) resolver library for CL? 10:12:13 iolib does DNS, I don't know about dnssec 10:12:16 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 10:12:22 -!- squee1 [~aj@110-174-50-177.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:12:45 -!- harish_ [~harish@175.156.103.195] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:12:45 because then you could use DNS for that kind of stuff (even GPG, although SSL got official certificate pinning system in form of TLSA records) 10:12:49 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:12:54 (and you should, IMO, use DNSSEC anyway) 10:13:02 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-jbgqjtovfqnypllu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:13:58 ideally I'd like to enable users not to depend on much system setup 10:14:39 which makes GPG more attractive, I guess 10:15:21 a minimal keychain management app could be included in the software 10:15:40 dim: given that you don't know much about security, that is a terrible idea 10:15:55 I've been using GnuPG some at least 10:15:57 dim: just use the infrastructure and leave it up to the pros to set it up correctly 10:16:09 man. i need to take a rest. 10:17:11 well offloading the security is good, is it possible to implement peer-to-peer with ssl certs and ca? 10:20:50 dim: yes, though a hierarchical, company-local thing is easier 10:21:30 and tbh, GPG and SSL are equivalent in your case, except that GPG trusted keys take the place of CA 10:21:31 I need to think more about it, but it seems to me that a real peer-to-peer application design here would be easier for me to implement 10:21:38 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-11-185.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:21:53 dim: iolib doesn't do dnssec 10:22:59 I know how to create a pair of public/private GnuPG keys, sign'em and set the trust level, and I can let the user deal with where to store the private keys and manage the trusted network 10:23:37 I don't know how to create a pair of SSL certs and the application will not be able to handle them directly, but if it's possible I can just document that it's a peer-to-peer application that you as the user needs to secure using ssl 10:25:11 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:25:14 dim: all you need to do is to write code so that it will verify peer certs with ones that were specified in configuration. Other people will know how to work with that 10:25:43 ggole [~ggole@58-7-54-39.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:26:47 -!- Poenikatu [~kvirc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:27:32 well, yeah 10:27:48 I don't even need to write that code: use an SSL proxy 10:28:12 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.226] has joined #lisp 10:28:16 and I can still go peer-to-peer, it's repo servers talking together rather than with build servers 10:36:14 -!- cmpitg [~184467440@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:38:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@176.192.108.238] has joined #lisp 10:45:16 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-53.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:45:43 cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-253-154.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 10:54:28 cmpitg [~184467440@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 10:54:42 huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has joined #lisp 10:54:48 -!- huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has quit 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[~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:07:01 -!- aluuu [~aluuu@77.242.110.178] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:08:11 -!- Adrianna25 [~Adrianna2@95.141.20.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:10:53 Zhivago CL already exists. It's called ANSI C. 12:11:19 lol 12:11:36 da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 12:11:50 -!- _5kg [~zifeitong@60.191.2.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:13:33 I'm going to assume that you hit yourself harder on the head than usual this morning. 12:14:12 huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has joined #lisp 12:14:15 -!- huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:14:20 -!- karupanerura is now known as zz_karupanerura 12:17:06 axion: (loop for i below 10 do (format t "~[~:;~:*~A day~:*~P~]~%" i)) 12:17:32 Zhivago: start removing pathnames and characters and strings, and you end with C. Duh. 12:17:43 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@176.238.47.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:18:18 The problem is not pathname, it's implementations that are dumb and inconsistent in mapping them to posix paths. 12:18:51 Who suggested removing strings? 12:19:06 Definitely harder than usual. :) 12:19:43 Of course, that's ignoring the point that if you remove characters and strings, you won't end with C. :) 12:19:44 couldn't use yt:matchq 12:19:48 fails 12:21:08 axion: therefore: (format t "~[~:;~:*~A day~:*~P, ~]~[~:;~:*~A hour~:*~P, ~]~[~:;~:*~A minute~:*~P, ~]~[~:;~:*~A second~:*~P, ~]~%" d h m s) 12:25:13 huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has joined #lisp 12:25:16 -!- huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:26:16 huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has joined #lisp 12:26:21 -!- huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:28:38 nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:53 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:30:49 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-10.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:32:03 cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-240-27.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:34:43 patrick85 [~patrick85@37-5-232-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:37:32 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:30 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:46:59 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:48:05 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:39 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:48:52 arb [~adityaraj@122.161.235.123] has joined #lisp 12:49:35 Does anyone here know whether clfswm has an irc channel or not? If so, which network? I'm having troubles compiling it with both sbcl and clisp, and I picked the latest version of common-lisp.net, so I need help with it. 12:51:02 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@176.238.56.198] has joined #lisp 12:51:42 arb, have you tried earlier versions? 12:51:56 bjorkintosh: No, just the one hosted on common-lisp.net 12:52:04 How do I get earlier versions, through their git repo? 12:52:06 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:52:30 should be there. 12:52:36 if not, try their mailing list. 12:53:02 bjorkintosh: Have you used it though? If so, with which implementation? 12:53:12 nah. i keep it simple as i'm not a nerd. 12:53:15 I just found it's available on quicklisp too, so I'm going to try getting it from there. 12:53:22 i'm a big fan of a famous icelandic musician :) 12:53:39 so, not a nerd. 12:53:47 hmm who might that musician be? 12:54:12 petite and famous, but clearly not that famous. 12:54:30 Name please! 12:54:38 I love sampling new music. 12:55:17 arb, how many famous icelandic musicians have you ever heard of? 12:55:34 None, I'm not much into classical music. 12:55:48 ah. you won't like this one then. 12:56:06 bjorkintosh: googling "icelandic musician" first result is "Bjork" 12:56:12 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 12:56:15 :O 12:56:36 bjorkintosh: so, have I guessed it right? 12:56:47 good job. 12:57:56 ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has joined #lisp 12:58:24 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-hbvnmkbjjyuqosvz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:03:48 -!- raeon 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peer] 14:01:13 -!- arb [~adityaraj@122.161.71.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:01:52 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:02:28 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 14:04:52 pretty pretty! 14:04:55 lol 14:04:57 Natch [~Natch@c-88cde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:05:37 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:07:23 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:10:52 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-88cde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:12:29 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:13:46 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:15:29 -!- nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:08 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:20:07 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:21:57 sohail [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:21:58 -!- sohail [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:21:58 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:24:58 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:26:38 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:27:42 metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 14:29:12 -!- spintronic [jovan@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:30:17 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:32:00 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:32:34 is it a good idea to use #. *package* ? 14:33:33 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:33:39 a "good idea"? 14:33:47 Rather depends on the context. 14:33:55 yeah 14:34:19 here it's about filling up automatically a CLOS instance from the result of a command, the command is outputing "KEY = VALUE" strings 14:34:21 I wish I could say using #. is always a bad idea, but that's unfortunately impossible. 14:34:31 Package objects have a definition of similarity for print/read consistency and FASL dumpability. 14:34:38 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-50-134-206-238.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:34:44 if the KEY is found as a symbol in the current package, I know it can be used as a slot symbol... 14:34:56 foom: You can have my #.` when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. d-: 14:35:00 dim: why not just check to see if it can be used as a slot symbol? 14:35:16 dim: seems like you're solving the wrong problem here 14:35:28 well the slot symbol needs to be from the same package as the CLOS definition, right? 14:35:42 I mean I tested more sloppy things before 14:35:43 dim: anyway, in that case ANY symbol would work. Function names, variable names 14:36:08 doesn't match my testing (done using SBCL) 14:36:43 Yeah -- remember, one namespace, multiple value spaces. :) 14:37:42 dim: just use slot-exists-p 14:38:21 though, honestly, in the same situation, I just make an alist mapping strings to the relevant symbols 14:38:29 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:53 -!- metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:39:19 -!- jordonbiondo [~user@50-77-199-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:50 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:41:41 REPO> (slot-exists-p (make-instance 'pgconfig) :version) NIL REPO> (slot-exists-p (make-instance 'pgconfig) 'version) T 14:42:16 find-symbol seemed to me easier than maintaining the same list twice 14:42:21 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 14:42:25 It sure would be nice, for example, if {,c,e}case weren't defined such as to require #. for many reasonable uses. 14:42:39 dim: I'm queasy about interning random user input strings 14:42:40 oh well, next language. ;p 14:42:50 -!- eee-blt [~nb0yjxtr@ma.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:42:52 foom: alexandria:switch 14:43:18 -!- adityarajbhatt [~adityaraj@122.161.27.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:43:27 eee-blt [~nb0yjxtr@ma.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 14:43:29 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:43:32 -!- Adlai` [~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:04 adityarajbhatt [~adityaraj@122.161.254.210] has joined #lisp 14:44:12 dlowe: that's why I use find-symbol 14:45:47 hm, switch. I wonder what that does; it has essentially no documentation. 14:46:08 "Evaluates first matching clause, returning its values, or evaluates and returns the values of DEFAULT if no keys match." 14:46:08 there is a string-case implementation around 14:46:10 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:46:29 http://www.discontinuity.info/~pkhuong/string-case.pdf>' 14:46:32 says *nothing* about what the clauses are supposed to be. 14:46:58 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:47:04 any form that can be evaluated 14:47:37 foom: it's a CL:CASE that you don't need to use #. for reasonable cases 14:47:42 I didn't add the URL of the string-case.lisp I have 14:48:00 http://www.discontinuity.info/~pkhuong/string-case.lisp ok 14:48:15 foom: is that what you're after? 14:49:10 dim: I was thinking of constants containing integers, which I guess is what alexandria:switch is. 14:49:39 dim: If you have a function called foo, then find-symbol will return T if you get a foo key, and then error when you try to set it as a slot 14:49:59 juanlas [~jlas@201-23-163-105.gprs.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:50:25 Why not have some slot-name-registry? 14:51:30 dlowe: I know, but I also know what pg_config returns 14:51:43 well I've been lazier than I should have been ;-) 14:52:15 so I now have a full answer, thanks guys 14:52:29 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 269 seconds] 14:52:38 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 14:53:04 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:53:17 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:53:46 wheelsucker [~wheelsuck@168.114.240.151] has joined #lisp 14:53:46 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-112-91.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 14:53:50 -!- adityarajbhatt [~adityaraj@122.161.254.210] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 14:53:58 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has joined #lisp 14:57:58 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:59:12 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:59:23 vaporatorius [~vaporator@25.red-80-29-94.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:07 michael_lee [~michael_l@113.135.104.168] has joined #lisp 15:02:38 yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:53 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:02:54 -!- yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:02:54 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 15:04:05 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:05:12 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:05:32 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-251-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:05:59 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:10:17 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:12:14 emma [~em@user-0cev0ld.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:12:14 -!- emma [~em@user-0cev0ld.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:12:14 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:12:16 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:17:58 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:19:08 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:20:07 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:13 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:14 SHODAN [~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has joined #lisp 15:24:48 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:25:29 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:27:35 _5kg [~zifeitong@60.191.2.238] has joined #lisp 15:30:39 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:32:08 emma [~em@user-0cev0ld.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:32:14 -!- emma [~em@user-0cev0ld.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:32:14 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:32:51 -!- fzappa [~user@204-159-77-217.fttx.luna.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:55 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:13 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:38:42 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:40:31 cgore [~cgore@cgore.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:54 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:41:57 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:42:01 percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has joined #lisp 15:44:10 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:44:27 r0b4 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 15:44:51 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:45:59 -!- rob3 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:48:48 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:49:20 Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 15:49:44 why does CL call it a slot? 15:49:56 why not? 15:50:04 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:50:11 is it not a class? 15:50:29 A slot is not a class. 15:50:42 No using arguments of precedent: Lisp, though possibly not CL, was here before almost any precedent you are likely to attempt to name. 15:50:44 I think python calls slots slots too 15:51:15 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:51:22 It would be interesting to know the historical context in which the name "slot" was chosen. 15:51:54 hmm. R uses slots too. 15:52:00 Python calls them attributes 15:52:10 Probably an analogy to a structure in a corporate mail room. 15:52:29 Or an analogy to the connectors on a computer backplane. 15:52:47 flavors called them "instance variables" 15:52:54 smalltalk called them instance variables, as well 15:53:05 or because "slot" just tends to fit with how CLOS implements them heh 15:53:07 slots is short and descriptive 15:53:07 Qt uses signals and slots, I'm seeing some references to Self too 15:53:29 Xach, you're right. my mistake. 15:53:38 still doesn't tell me why the word slot was chosen though. 15:53:51 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:16 Is the use of "slot" in terms of more primitive Lisp objects (such as SYMBOLs) a possible antecendent here? 15:54:20 sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:30 are http://inventors.about.com/od/sstartinventions/a/Slot_Machines.htm related maybe? 15:55:59 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56:15 ltbarcly [~textual@93.94.40.14] has joined #lisp 15:57:13 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:57:46 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:57:59 normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:21 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@93.94.40.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:35 ltbarcly [~textual@93.94.40.14] has joined #lisp 16:01:33 k-stz [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-097.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:01:43 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@93.94.40.14] has quit [Client Quit] 16:02:59 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:03:31 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:03:44 -!- normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [] 16:03:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:04:01 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 16:06:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@176.192.108.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:06:53 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 16:07:09 I have some code that uses sb-int:arg-list, which Ive just been informed is disappearing in 1.1.17. Any examples of the new way to use sb-int:encapsulate? 16:07:39 And I guess Ill have to conditionalize on SBCL version? (or have I just been using encapsulate incorrectly thus far?) 16:07:48 The code in question: https://github.com/sellout/quid-pro-quo/blob/master/src/sbcl-encapsulate.lisp 16:08:34 normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:18 mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has joined #lisp 16:09:19 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:10:26 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 16:10:58 Umm... You know that sb-int:encapsulate is not considered to be a supported interface by the SBCL team, right? 16:11:11 nyef: Yeah, I know. 16:11:52 Im not complaining that it changed. Just wondering if theres any place to see the current usage. 16:12:30 Inside SBCL itself? 16:12:58 nyef: Yes  16:13:09 karswell [~user@84.93.180.60] has joined #lisp 16:13:14 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 16:13:21 So... git grep for it? 16:13:26 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rzdcccjxqbvslqfe] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:13:37 slarti [~anonymous@c-76-98-39-83.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:57 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:14:16 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 16:14:17 Yeah, just means I have to clone it, etc. Was just hoping someone might have an idea is all. 16:14:51 slarti_ [~anonymous@pool-98-111-129-15.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:04 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:17:12 emma [~em@user-0cev0ld.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 16:17:14 -!- emma [~em@user-0cev0ld.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:17:14 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 16:17:59 -!- slarti [~anonymous@c-76-98-39-83.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:59 -!- slarti_ is now known as slarti 16:19:37 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@98.255.30.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:19:38 nyef: However, if there is a supported interface for function advice, Id be glad to replace my use of encapsulate with it. 16:21:59 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:22:18 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:23:27 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 16:28:29 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:28:38 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:50 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 16:29:08 Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 16:30:03 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 16:30:18 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:31:59 -!- KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:34:31 -!- pjd` [~user@75.160.177.78] has left #lisp 16:34:59 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:35:03 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has left #lisp 16:35:25 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:36:49 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 16:37:24 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:39:11 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 16:39:55 hi. why do i get this error? Required argument is not a symbol: 1 16:40:14 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:40:20 -!- vantage|2 [~vantage@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:31 brown [user@nat/google/x-ngfksdaldulskxyb] has joined #lisp 16:40:51 theos: if you have a problem, you need to say three things. What did you do? What happened? What did you expect? 16:40:55 -!- brown is now known as Guest70733 16:41:09 theos: no one will help you without all three 16:41:29 dlowe i am trying the quicksort code from ACL and its giving that error 16:42:02 the code defines quicksort function. 16:42:12 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:42:21 theos: what do you mean by trying? 16:43:01 theos: it would be good if you could paste on paste.lisp.org what you are doing. 16:43:08 dlowe i typed out the code in slime. copied it from the book 16:43:15 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 16:43:33 http://www.paulgraham.com/ancomliser.html may be relevant 16:43:41 ah, the book. THE book 16:43:41 M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@178-117-47-54.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:43:43 Okay. It's probably a typo. A number 1 where it wasn't expecting one 16:44:25 though there is some errata on that code 16:44:33 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:48 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:45:08 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/Gc1pyYnIHXo 16:45:16 someone else had a problem too 16:45:49 theos: try pasting your code. 16:46:02 theos: is it the same problem? 16:46:03 and a transcript of how you used it 16:46:17 Xach i just did. the link has the code 16:46:40 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:15 theos: paste *your* code 16:48:00 Xach it will just be the exact copy of that one. i just copied it from the book just like that guy did. i can paste if you want 16:48:18 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:48:53 theos: you got that error because contrarily to uninformed belief, lisp is STRONGLY typed a programming language. You can't pass a number such as 1 to a function that expects a SYMBOL. 16:49:06 I want. Plus a transcript of your REPL interaction that led to the error. 16:49:33 on another thought, its not the same. i typed 1 in place of l :/ 16:49:40 hah! 16:49:44 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 16:50:13 1, l, what is difference among friends 16:50:30 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-edvkiznhuztirpfj] has joined #lisp 16:50:30 -!- bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgpbvnnoktbxtzia] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 16:50:31 theos: you might be well advised to use a font that distinguihses Il1|. 16:51:03 pjb i should change font yes :D 16:52:27 unfortunately, i cant change the book's font. l looks like 1 16:52:52 theos, there's no context for distinguishing the two? 16:52:54 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:25 there is a little difference between 1 and one in the book 16:53:51 come again? 16:53:55 between 1 and one? 16:54:31 the l one and 1 one 16:54:39 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:54:54 this is confusing.. 16:56:03 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 16:56:48 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 16:57:04 AndiPersti [~AndiPerst@91-119-196-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:57:14 Xach thanks for the errata 16:57:44 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 16:58:03 root_empire [~michael_l@117.32.237.91] has joined #lisp 16:59:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:00:04 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@113.135.104.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:00:59 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:01:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:02:38 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:04:10 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:07:29 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:08:40 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:09:14 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:34 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 17:11:58 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:29 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-gemsrvgonkjteqso] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:14:00 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:15:03 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.14.198] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 17:15:11 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:19:59 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:20:44 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.14.198] has joined #lisp 17:21:40 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:23:00 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-wxwlweiuwyfrwcfd] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:24:00 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:24:04 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 17:26:11 Natch [~Natch@c-58cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:26:41 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:28:22 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:28:45 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 17:29:20 mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:48 Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:32:34 add^_ [~user@m176-70-193-29.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:33:10 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-193-29.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:24 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:33:49 add^_ [~user@m176-70-193-29.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:34:01 -!- juanlas [~jlas@201-23-163-105.gprs.claro.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:34:42 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:35:11 prim [~user@unaffiliated/prim] has joined #lisp 17:37:45 This is probably better to ask in #emacs, however that channel is a little busy with other topics at the moment. Maybe somebody here uses SBCL + SLIME in emacs and could be of some help. Here's a paste of my ~/.emacs, along with an error I'm getting and the output from emacs --debug-init. Just trying to get SBCL && SLIME working in gnu-emacs. 17:37:49 http://paste.lisp.org/display/141465 17:37:49 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:59 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:17 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:40:33 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:06 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:06 i do'nt think ~/ works 17:41:08 at a glance 17:41:16 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:41:24 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:41:34 also you have ~/home/foo which .. why 17:41:36 If it does, the path is then $HOME/home/foo/slime/ 17:41:39 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 17:41:44 which seems unlikely 17:41:46 Yeah, what Xach said. 17:42:39 odd the of all things emacs wouldn't respect ~ as $HOME 17:42:51 that's not really odd 17:42:53 whartung: I dont think thats the problem. 17:43:09 Its just that it expands to /home/foo/home/foo/slime 17:43:18 prim: any insight on the matter? 17:43:25 Which is unlikely to actually be a real path. 17:43:56 yes, one moment I'm looking at my paths 17:44:04 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 17:44:12 checking with file-exists-p, ~/ appears to work, so fix the rest of the path 17:45:59 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:28 -!- M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@178-117-47-54.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: M00R1Z] 17:47:29 pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 17:47:32 luis: hmm, is there likely to be a consistently-named tarball url for slime? 17:47:44 luis: e.g. https:///slime/slime-latest.tar.gz? 17:48:01 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:48:24 well, i adjusted the slime path to "~/home/slime/", same error 17:49:11 prim: You have a directory called home in your home directory? 17:50:26 prim: On the command line, try `find ~ -name 'slime' -type d` 17:51:25 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:52:17 returns /home/foo/slime 17:52:17 17:52:55 Xach: if you update the git repository and a tag v2.4 appears, then you'll find the tarball at https://github.com/slime/slime/archive/v2.4.tar.gz 17:52:56 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:53:08 github recognizes version tags automatically 17:53:32 Making effective use of that requires me to update some software. 17:53:36 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:53:37 If I can avoid it, I'd like to. 17:54:12 Is this good Common Lisp practice if I want to check if a key is in an enormous list of strings? https://gist.github.com/dr-meister/6bffe3028e043bd4ba40 17:54:38 I build a hash-table within a #. reader macro at read-time. 17:54:38 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:55:06 drmeister: I suspect something like load-time-value is more stylish. 17:55:27 Or a special variable... 17:55:55 drmeister: functions named (check-foo ...) often signal an error if the thing they are meant to check is not true. 17:56:05 I guess I don't understand what .emacs wants, if it doesn't like /home/foo/slime then I'm confused. 17:56:17 drmeister: testing that something is somethign else is often written (defun housekeeping-class-exception-p ...) 17:56:27 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-135-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:56:39 prim: You are confused, and you are not communicating very effectively with the people who want to help you. Would you consider answering direct questions? 17:56:53 certainly 17:56:59 drmeister: I'd make a function that takes a list and creates the hash table, then use that in conjunction with load-time-value 17:57:04 prim: Where is your slime directory? 17:57:47 sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has joined #lisp 17:57:58 prim: sellout's command will help you find it. 17:58:06 I believe I answered that by running find ~ -name 'slime' -type d, like I said above the output was 17:58:06 /home/foo/slime 17:58:06 17:58:58 prim: then the path you should give to emacs is "~/slime/", not "~/home/slime/" or "~/home/foo/slime/". 17:59:45 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:59:59 Ok, based on suggestions - how about this? https://gist.github.com/dr-meister/3eb4ba542726a3602a0f 17:59:59 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:17 Xach: thanks I'll try that now 18:00:38 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:00:47 drmeister: i suspect ht/hc typo in build-... 18:01:15 Xach: Yeah - thanks - I haven't tested it yet. 18:02:11 restarting emacs brb 18:02:20 -!- prim [~user@unaffiliated/prim] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:02:44 drmeister: I think I'd be inclined to put the list in its own variable, too. maybe in its own file containing just (in-package ...) (defvar *housekeeping-class-exceptions* ...) 18:02:56 having a zillion lines of data in the function makes it hard to read. 18:02:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-251.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:04:28 Davidbrcz [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:04:29 -!- harish_ [~harish@175.156.103.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:05:48 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:07:04 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:08:10 prim [~user@unaffiliated/prim] has joined #lisp 18:09:22 harish_ [~harish@175.156.103.195] has joined #lisp 18:11:38 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:11:39 atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-jiphcyithxlzhgmo] has joined #lisp 18:11:46 thanks Xach , the path is fixed and this made some progress. No error message on startup, and M-x slime works. I've never used slime before, it seems stuck 'Polling "/tmp/slime.2693' and asks if I want to abort. Output from inferior-lisp buffer here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141465#1 18:11:53 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 18:13:34 prim: i suspect you are using incompatible versions of slime and sbcl. those versions you have listed are very very old (sorry I didn't notice and mention it earlier) 18:13:34 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:13:53 Is it feasible to get the latest of each on your platform? 18:16:16 Do the latest of each work together? 18:16:37 That is my impression. 18:16:38 Xach: thanks, I will try to do this later. I grabbed the latest version of sbcl for my architecture (mips,el) from sbcl's website, so I'll probably have to research which version of slime I can use since it may not be compatible with the version from my repo. 18:17:38 Ooh! You have a MIPSEL? 18:17:38 er, that is i got slime from aptitude install. so. yeah. 18:18:02 nyef: yes, I put all of my system info on the comments in my paste. 18:18:31 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 18:18:33 prim: you are likely to get an old, bogus slime that way 18:18:52 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:19:19 What kind of hardware is it? 18:19:24 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC79F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:19:36 Xach: yeah, I'll have to browse some slime now. to see what will work with SBCL 1.0.28 MIPSel. 18:20:03 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:20:12 nyef: lemote yeeloong laptop 8101b with gnewsense 3.1 for mipsel. 18:20:52 (I'm aware that MIPS gets little attention from SBCL devs, and the most recent couple of releases are quite likely not to even build, but much of the reason is a lack of decent MIPS hardware.) 18:20:58 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 18:21:41 nyef: decent hardware in hand, or decent hardware at any price? 18:22:05 nyef: yeah, I may just have to stick with CLISP for now, we'll see. 18:22:14 -!- harish_ [~harish@175.156.103.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:22:38 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54832D32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:22:44 M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@178-117-47-54.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:22:51 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.14.198] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 18:23:09 thanks for the good info nyef Xach and all. 18:23:12 -!- ivan__ [~ivan@46-65-53-22.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:23:14 Xach: Primarily in-hand, I believe. The MIPS hardware I've got takes hours to do a build. 18:23:42 -!- Near is now known as Ichigo 18:23:47 -!- Ichigo is now known as Kurosaki 18:23:53 -!- Kurosaki is now known as Near 18:25:08 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:26:22 off to work, thanks for the help again. 18:26:34 -!- prim [~user@unaffiliated/prim] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:26:35 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:27:21 -!- normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [] 18:27:54 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:28:24 Shinmera: I can't build chirp. Sent you some feedback about it. 18:28:32 harish_ [~harish@175.156.103.195] has joined #lisp 18:28:46 -!- davazp [~user@167.Red-88-15-120.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:03 Xach: ouch, alright, thanks 18:29:58 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:31:29 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:32:36 varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-twpmaugwyjkppsll] has joined #lisp 18:32:51 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:33:20 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 18:33:21 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:34:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:36:01 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:36:03 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 18:36:31 Xach: ah, I see. Yes I was worried that that might happen. I'll have it fixed in a minute. 18:37:03 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:03 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:38:27 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-yivjvllstqhwejgv] has joined #lisp 18:39:27 joneshf-work [~joneshf@167.222-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:28 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:39:42 Xach: Can you retry building it now? 18:40:24 Still no dice. Argument count mismatch remains. 18:42:06 -!- M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@178-117-47-54.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: M00R1Z] 18:43:30 slarti_ [~anonymous@c-76-98-39-83.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:29 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:31 Xach: I should really get used to quickloading with verbose on. Should be good to go now. 18:44:57 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:44:59 -!- slarti [~anonymous@pool-98-111-129-15.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:47 much better. thanks. 18:45:54 slarti [~anonymous@c-76-98-39-83.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:08 Thank you for the quick feedback! 18:46:09 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:47:59 -!- slarti_ [~anonymous@c-76-98-39-83.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:50:45 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:51:18 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:51:53 I am eager to get a-tweeting with it 18:52:24 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:57 normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 18:53:08 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:53:34 I have yet to map out methods for all the objects and extensively test all functions, but it should be good to go for basic things. 18:54:44 jaaso [jaaso@cable-146-255-152-38.dynamic.telemach.ba] has joined #lisp 18:55:04 Is there a way to force a recompile, when quickloading a project symlinked into local-projects? 18:55:07 small design issue 18:55:16 I'm trying to implement argv0 for CL 18:55:25 Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:29 I've got something kind of working for dumped images 18:55:43 in other cases, the right thing to do seems to have the wrapper script export a variable 18:55:52 cl-launch exports CL_LAUNCH_FILE 18:56:10 but if that's going to be standardized, it better have a different name 18:56:12 fiveop: Not with quickload, but you can load it with plain asdf commands. I think there's a force option there. 18:56:19 what about __COMMON_LISP_ARGV0 ? 18:56:36 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:56:43 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:53 or simply ARGV0 ? (could clash with zsh, though). Or CL_ARGV0 ? __CL_ARGV0 ? COMMON_LISP_ARG0 ? 18:57:34 jmolinaso [~smuxi@d54C39A61.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:57:46 I think I'll go by __CL_ARGV0 18:57:54 any comment? 18:58:25 Xach: Would you incorporate such an option (assuming someone would write a patch)? 18:58:28 Davidbrcz [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:58:29 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:58:46 fiveop: What option? 18:58:54 forcing a rebuild 18:59:12 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:59:18 zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-178-003-160-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:29 I don't think so. If you'd like to do that, I recommend using ASDF directly. 18:59:55 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:00:12 -!- slarti [~anonymous@c-76-98-39-83.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:01:02 fiveop, what's wrong with (asdf:load-system :foo :force t) ? 19:01:23 (apart from the fact that force takes precedence over force-not, I mean) 19:01:42 Is there already a utility to temporarily change a setf-able location? 19:01:51 I need to know the API of two instead of one tool? 19:02:02 +tools 19:02:21 Something like (unwind-protect (let ((old PLACE)) (setf PLACE new) BODY) (setf PLACE old)) 19:02:22 Yes. 19:02:32 Probably more than two. 19:02:34 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 19:02:36 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:04 Sorry, that was not a question. That was an answer to Fare. 19:03:07 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 19:04:17 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:04:19 fiveop, you could learn just asdf:load-system and let it do the same thing as quickload when quicklisp is installed 19:04:26 does symlinks into local-projects work reliably? I've run into issues with symlinks and the ASDF source-registry 19:04:44 jasom: It depends on what you mean by "reliably" and "issues". 19:04:49 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:05:01 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 19:05:03 jasom: it will automatically scan only the first level of the directory; nested structure must be manually registered with (ql:register-local-projects) 19:05:18 jasom: but i haven't heard of any issues with it 19:05:31 Xach: If I symlink a project into there, it will work though? 19:05:47 IIRC it was CCL and ASDF3 :tree wouldn't follow symlinks 19:06:17 *jasom* tests real quick 19:06:17 jasom: it should work. 19:06:26 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:06:51 it didn't work on an older version of clozure cl, but i persuaded some ccl folks to adjust to make it work. 19:07:00 which was very nice of them 19:07:14 symlinks are a pain. There is no way to make all implementations behave consistently with respect to symlinks. 19:07:31 Version 1.9-r15769M <-- That's probably too old 19:08:04 jasom: lies! too old was something like 1.5 19:08:16 oh, I'll try it then 19:08:28 I bet it won't work 19:08:38 *jaimef* has his first CL android app working :P 19:08:39 it's all in uiop:directory* 19:08:49 zimri-lim [~quassel@12.250.157.102] has joined #lisp 19:08:55 jaimef: what did you use? 19:09:03 ccl? 19:09:16 mocl 19:09:20 ok. 19:09:32 What's the app? 19:09:45 metis 19:10:02 just a front end to my metis server 19:10:44 Ideal Labs? 19:10:50 CrazyEddy [~undisting@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 19:11:06 no, side project 19:11:11 xani [~user@178.183.144.254.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 19:11:36 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:11:38 Devops tool for syncing between other pager folks to show which items I am working on, my availability etc 19:11:59 metis? Like the graph partitioning library? 19:12:05 zimrilim [~quassel@12.250.157.102] has joined #lisp 19:12:10 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:12:27 Zomgbot67 [~Zomgbot67@99-28-121-12.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:54 I'm new. I.E. I just installed Lispbox two seconds ago. What now? 19:12:55 Is it possible to query asdf for what version of a system it has loaded (or will load)? 19:13:00 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:13:27 Zomgbot67: now write some lisp code: (defun factorial (x) (if (< x 1) 1 (* x (factorial (1- x0))))) (factorial 200) 19:13:42 minion: tell Zomgbot67 about pcl 19:13:42 Zomgbot67: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:13:54 Acherontius [~user@204.116.186.34] has joined #lisp 19:14:17 milosn, thanks man :) also "dead tree from" cracked me up. 19:14:26 What do you guys think about the lisp koans from google? 19:15:13 err, where ? 19:15:13 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:15:35 Ayey_: I didn't like 'em much at the time. Haven't revisited, though. 19:15:48 Ayey_: Since I don't like the ruby koans it's based on, I probably don't like hte lisp ones. 19:16:43 Never tried the ruby one, but i'm liking some of it. Not everything is perfect, though 19:16:50 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:03 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 19:17:04 I also don't do test-first, and the foo-koans all come from test-first people 19:17:59 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:08 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:18 izirku [~IceChat9@sys-its-g56vnw1-yev.cc.unt.edu] has joined #lisp 19:18:38 I think it's the problem solving part of it i like, not really the testing stuff.. 19:18:47 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:19:19 -!- CrazyEddy [~undisting@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:19:24 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:19:54 -!- izirku [~IceChat9@sys-its-g56vnw1-yev.cc.unt.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 19:20:23 izirku [~IceChat9@sys-its-g56vnw1-yev.cc.unt.edu] has joined #lisp 19:20:30 jasom: FYI, the ccl change was in 2011 19:22:12 Xach: ah, yes, I forgot I'm remoted into another machine on the terminal I tested 19:22:23 the physical machine I'm on has a c.a. 2011 ccl version 19:23:20 but yes, with a recent ccl symlinks work 19:23:31 jasom: my take on a letf: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141467 19:23:42 -!- bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:18 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:24:29 Vivitron: why get-setf-expansion? 19:24:54 vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:c8cc:233a:77:a628] has joined #lisp 19:25:05 most setting forms need it to avoid multiple evaluation of subforms of place 19:25:53 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:26:03 ah, that makes sense 19:26:44 -!- zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-178-003-160-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:27:07 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:27:58 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:28:50 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:30:12 Vivitron: does that work for setf functions? 19:30:14 Shinmera: I have toyed with the idea of making a browse-url utility, which by default would just print some text like "please go to this URL", but the user could customize it into actually opening the browser. 19:30:19 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 19:30:38 Shinmera: i think about it whenever i see an api that involves visiting a website. 19:30:39 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:01 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 19:31:24 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:31:51 CrazyEddy [~fluoresce@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 19:32:28 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:33:00 jasom: I think so, it should work with any place setf handles. Note that the return value can be surprising (if it includes the place, it will be reset before it's returned) 19:34:54 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:34:55 Xach: That would certainly be useful, yes! 19:34:58 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:27 Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:35:28 Xach: I've thought about automating it by using drakma to call the url and copy a pin if possible automatically, but parsing websites is... not really something I want to resort to here. 19:35:59 yeah. but then i've wondered about callback stuff. 19:36:35 Another issue is that I can't really think of a way to write a test suite for this, since every call requires a server connection and authentication. 19:36:59 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:38:28 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:39:36 I'm curious. I just got here from an old xkcd comic, so I know basicaly nothing. Is there still a thriving Lisp community? 19:39:44 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #lisp 19:39:57 no 19:40:12 basically all are using frameworks ....... 19:40:18 "still"? 19:40:20 Zomgbot67: It depends on how you define "thriving". There is a lisp community with a bunch of people who like it and discuss it and who go to meetings and stuff. 19:40:21 we're all dead spirits of more civilized times 19:40:41 Alright, fair enough 19:40:49 Compared to other languages, there are fewer hackers and not as much software being written. 19:40:51 yes, there's still a community. This patch of it is probably friendler than comp.lang.lisp, though 19:40:57 and yes, we're not that numerous 19:41:25 though Xach helped tremendously in distributing software which in turn made the activity more visible :) 19:42:16 -!- AndiPersti [~AndiPerst@91-119-196-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has left #lisp 19:42:56 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 19:43:22 How many systems in the quicklisp dist now? 19:43:59 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 269 seconds] 19:45:07 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:45:19 francogrex [~user@206.112-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:45:36 lots. nearly 1000 projects. 19:46:19 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 19:46:31 Zomgbot67: so there are about 1000 projects in quicklisp, which is roughly analagous to PyPI if you come from a python background 19:47:27 Alright, sweet, y'all had me worried for a minute 19:47:34 This seems like a great language 19:49:57 coming from python I've only once had to write a lib myself in CL, an ABNF parser generator... 19:50:08 I wouldn't choose to use python again, btw 19:50:19 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:51:37 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:52:03 *jasom* wrote a PDF parser in CL. I needed deflate, several crypto primitives and a few other libs. I was able to find pure-lisp versions of all of those (which saves me from having to distribute DLLs with my program). 19:52:17 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-90-212.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:52:42 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl13-202-216.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:49 LoicLisp [~loic@96.13.122.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:25 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:53:43 -!- Zomgbot67 [~Zomgbot67@99-28-121-12.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:53:47 jasom: you didn't feel like reusing cl-pdf's parser? 19:53:53 (i don't know if it does all you need) 19:54:17 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 19:55:20 I used it to do some simple stuff like find the coordinates of all text inputs on a PDF form 19:56:26 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Client Quit] 19:56:43 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:57:39 argh, i'm trying to resurrect the @lispmeetings tweets with chirp, but the password no longer works and I can't tell where it's emailing the reset info. 19:57:48 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:58:35 -!- francogrex [~user@206.112-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:12 create @lispmeetups 19:59:17 maybe? 20:00:49 I hope I don't have to resort to that, but it may happen 20:03:15 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:03:58 Xach: Is it ending up at your old job? 20:04:01 Lara26 [~Lara26@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 20:04:13 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:04:45 Alfr [~Unknown@e178052111.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:16 -!- Lara26 [~Lara26@95.141.20.196] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:24 Man, Samsung is taking a lot of flak for the Oscars, even from non-geek circles. 20:05:27 sellout-: I don't think so. I never used that for anything personalish. 20:05:38 Oops, wrong channel. 20:05:40 *Xach* learned that lesson after his first job-change 20:06:13 maybe someone who is high-up in the twitter hierarchy can rescue @lispmeetings for you 20:06:23 where is a gigamonkey when you need one? 20:06:24 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 20:06:33 Krystof: I need to touch base with twitter support, according to the recovery page. 20:06:45 I guess I will do that now. 20:07:04 Krystof: Proving that he's the owner of the account could be quite difficult though, I would think 20:07:38 We'll see. 20:08:54 it's not who you know, it's whose book you are quoted on the back of 20:08:58 or maybe front, I can't remember 20:09:02 cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.213.55] has joined #lisp 20:09:26 -!- pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:09:48 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:10:31 Xach: it didn't because it needed to load the whole pdf structure into RAM. I had a 400 page PDF 20:10:46 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:10:53 qt:qdescribe is returning NIL for everything and I have no idea why 20:11:05 jasom: wow! that could take dozens of megabytes !! :) 20:11:14 Xach: more than 8GB 20:11:18 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54832D32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:11:21 I OOMed before succeeding 20:11:48 -!- Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 20:11:51 that's a big twinkie 20:12:04 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-251.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:17 *jasom* raises a glass to Ramis 20:14:25 ltbarcly [~textual@80.179.186.2.forward.012.net.il] has joined #lisp 20:14:46 slarti [~anonymous@12.176.211.87] has joined #lisp 20:15:38 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17:21 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:17:49 fisxoj [~fisxoj@2620:101:f000:9c00:224:7eff:feda:1209] has joined #lisp 20:18:18 pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 20:18:18 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@80.179.186.2.forward.012.net.il] has quit [Client Quit] 20:19:56 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@2620:101:f000:9c00:224:7eff:feda:1209] has quit [Client Quit] 20:19:58 urandom__ [~user@p20030056C87CC0CA3E970EFFFE524478.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:20:23 fisxoj [~fisxoj@2620:101:f000:9c00:224:7eff:feda:1209] has joined #lisp 20:21:08 sams` [~sam@static-72-80-117-250.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:38 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:21:59 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:54 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:24:42 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 20:26:38 -!- sams` [~sam@static-72-80-117-250.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.50.7] 20:26:58 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-123.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:27:33 -!- slarti [~anonymous@12.176.211.87] has quit [Quit: slarti] 20:27:40 sams` [~sam@static-72-80-117-250.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:29:00 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:30:30 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:32:31 -!- k-stz [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-097.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:09 zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-178-003-160-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:00 seantallen [seantallen@nat/theladders/x-kkgsqivkgkbihcoj] has joined #lisp 20:35:09 ok, got argv0 working with cl-launch 4.0.1.8 and asdf 3.1.0.87 20:35:11 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:35:39 one advantage of taking lots of time to release asdf 3.1.1 is that there will be a lot of awesome new features controlled by #+asdf3.1 20:35:47 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:37:00 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:38:59 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 20:40:07 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:13 Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 20:41:49 how does one debug (ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST #P"//tmp/pginstall//github.com/markokr/plproxy/" :VERBOSE NIL :MODE 511) SIMPLE-FILE-ERROR "Can't create directory" when mkdir -p in the shell with the same user account just works? 20:41:58 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:43:13 I'd double check the permissions anyway 20:43:16 in clos, what is the keyword for getting the current instance of a class from within a class? 20:43:24 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:43:25 cheryllium: there isn't any. CLOS doesn't work like that. 20:43:34 I must misunderstand then 20:43:46 how would I call a method in a class, from within the class? 20:43:53 I thought that you had to pass it an instance? 20:43:55 cheryllium: methods aren't in classes. 20:44:02 gah 20:44:11 I'm stll thinking in Java 20:44:22 the "class" in this case would be the arguments to the method 20:44:30 cheryllium: methods are fragments of the implementation of a generic function. they are assembled into action depending on the classes of the arguments provided. 20:44:36 so I'd pass the class to the method, not the instance of the class? 20:44:51 cheryllium: No, you pass the instance. 20:44:52 (draw myshape), "myshape" is the closest thing to the class here 20:44:52 cheryllium: no, you are calling a generic function, and the methods implement (parts of) it. 20:45:18 okay, I see now, thanks 20:45:35 That doesn't seem likely, but it's not too tricky with some practice. 20:45:35 -!- ggole [~ggole@58-7-54-39.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:45:53 *Xach* digs up joe marshall's warp speed guide 20:46:06 I need to stop seeing methods as tied to a particular class - instead they're tied to a generic function 20:46:24 I knew that. I just need to think about it like that :) 20:46:51 slarti [~anonymous@184.169.17.139] has joined #lisp 20:47:15 it can also help as thinking about sets of generic functions that work together in a protocol, and then defining your classes in a way that supports that protocol, e.g. with careful use of the names of the reader/writer/accessor options. 20:47:43 rather than thinking about a class as "ok, here's a bucket of slots and their functions. here's another bucket of slots. here's another bucket of slots." 20:47:46 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 20:48:38 should I put calls to defgeneric at the top of the source code? 20:48:41 a generic function could be implemented for a particular class of argument by looking things up in a hash table, or online, or something else - it doesn't have to boil down to slot access. 20:48:48 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:48:51 cheryllium: that is what i often do, but not always. 20:49:30 thanks. I'm unused to this kind of OOP. I'm not sure what is considered good style in terms of what order to write things in 20:49:44 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:49:46 cheryllium: Depending on what Im doing, I either define all my methods inside the defgeneric, or I put the generics in a separate file, and then put methods near the classes theyre specialized on. 20:50:19 The latter is more like Java class-oriented structure. 20:50:26 sellout-; did you call me? 20:50:41 The former is more like algebraic data types (at least in my brain) 20:50:49 zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a003:a046:271:8314:d31c] has joined #lisp 20:50:56 Near: That must be an annoying nick to have. 20:51:02 Near: If you have a nick that is a normal english word, you may not want to pipe up each time someone says it. 20:51:06 sellout: that does make sense, to define methods around the defgeneric, yet is it still object-oriented? it sounds more... function/process oriented 20:51:33 yes, it's still OO 20:51:36 sellout-; :D 20:51:45 Near, is that from death note? 20:51:45 Xach; what does pipe up mean? 20:51:51 it still offers encapsulation, information hiding, inheritance, etc. 20:51:51 cheryllium; yes. 20:51:52 cheryllium: Thats why people with different OO systems often call ones like Javas class-oriented 20:51:53 It means to speak up 20:52:23 cheryllium: https://sites.google.com/site/evalapply/ has a nice link, "warp speed introduction to CLOS". for some reason it doesn't display inline. 20:52:45 thanks! I was reading PCL's chapters on it as well. 20:53:10 how is it oriented around objects though? It seems it is oriented around functions more than objects, since it's oriented around generics 20:53:36 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:53:47 object oriented isn't necessarily about classes 20:53:57 cheryllium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming#Fundamental_features_and_concepts 20:53:59 JS is object oriented, even without classes 20:54:43 It's a little like thinking CL isn't compiled, because compile-file doesn't produce an executable. 20:54:50 I think somewhere there is a table with languages on one axis and OO features on the other, showing the intersections/differences between different approaches to OO. I dont know where it might be, however. 20:55:27 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:55:33 in the end its more about dispatch and encapsulation more than anything 20:55:59 *Xach* builds the world to see if slime 2.4 busts anything in an obvious way 20:56:10 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:56:23 I think http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/OOP_vs_type_classes is also educational, but it probably requires an entirely different frame of reference. 20:56:39 ooh, haskell 20:56:44 as with everything haskell 20:57:27 but a key point, for example, a generic function can dispatch on a simple lisp struct, not just CLOS classes. 20:58:03 generics dispatch also on integer, list, vector, etc 20:58:06 I love that part 20:58:34 not that I use it often or at all actually, but still 20:58:41 -!- sams` [~sam@static-72-80-117-250.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.50.7] 20:59:24 I still remember my Java 1.1 book and the docs at the time said "In Java everything is an object. Chapter I. Primitive Types. Chapter II. Objects" 20:59:32 heh 20:59:53 -!- slarti [~anonymous@184.169.17.139] has quit [Quit: slarti] 21:00:42 Well, it's helpful to understand that typical dispatch is on the class of the argument, and that that everything has a class, not just CLOS instances. 21:01:04 e.g. (class-of 42) 21:01:07 Davidbrcz_ [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 21:01:31 I have work that I am about to release on an unsuspecting work that makes dispatch much more confusing 21:01:40 I mean "expressive" 21:01:44 or "powerful" 21:01:47 does it make it better? 21:02:01 wait, Xach, what do you mean by "everything has a class"? 21:02:07 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:12 does it handle the 85-90% use case elegantly? 21:02:12 Krystof: Hahaha  some MOP stuff, or what? 21:02:25 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:02:26 Everything in Lisp has a class 21:02:31 sellout-: I have been doing metametaprogramming 21:02:42 but I thought classes were not part of lisp until CLOS was created? 21:02:50 I thought that classes were only a part of OOP... 21:02:53 Much like in Java everything ("everything") descends from Object, in Lisp everything (EVERYTHING) descends from the class T 21:03:03 I thought that T was a type, not a class 21:03:09 oh dear 21:03:09 I still have a series of half-written blog posts on the MOP from two years ago (just prior to having a kid  the last time I could blog) ;) 21:03:10 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl13-202-216.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:03:10 cheryllium: Common Lisp is what we talk about here, and in Common Lisp, everything has a class. 21:03:11 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:03:16 sellout-: it comes back :) 21:03:26 ah okay. is there a difference between a type and a class in cl? 21:03:26 dim: those double // are worrisome 21:03:33 cheryllium: a big difference. 21:03:34 do you have "" as a directory component? 21:03:38 I have blogged 12000 this year, not including cryptic crossword solutions! 21:03:41 describe that pathname... 21:03:42 12000 words 21:03:56 cheryllium: an object may be a member of many types, but only one class. 21:03:57 Krystof: *phew* I thought you meant posts. 21:04:03 not quite that prolific 21:04:14 of course it's easy to blog when no-one reads 21:04:31 it's easy to start posts when no one reads, harder to finish them :) 21:04:45 Fare: I managed to kill'em yes 21:04:56 Krystof: and even easier to claim to blog 21:05:08 I got no responses to my post about union activity in academia 21:05:15 despite tweeting it as well as blogging! 21:05:19 clearly it wasn't controversial enough 21:05:26 I read it, but felt I had nothing to add. Sorry. 21:05:47 I think this might say that my reach is better among lisp programmers than among academics 21:06:08 also, planet.lisp is among the top 4 referrers to transforming-musicology.org, so thank you Xach :) 21:06:12 (merge-pathnames (make-pathname :directory `(:relative ,path)) (make-pathname :directory *root*)) --> (merge-pathnames ... *root*), and of course someone else needs to ensure that *root* ends with a proper slash 21:06:21 that trailing-slash is a PITA 21:07:08 the source code I'm looking at combines camelCase and whatever-this-is-called... is there an official set of conventions somewhere that most Lispers are to follow? 21:07:29 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl13-202-216.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07:29 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07:30 I'm wondering how I should name my variables. a trivial thing, but still bothers me... 21:07:41 cheryllium: nothing official, but there are some various slides and presentations and documents discussing that sort of thing 21:08:18 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.14] has joined #lisp 21:08:28 "official" really depends on the agreement of the group with which you want to get along. that can vary depending on a lot of things. 21:08:37 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 21:08:51 I think everyone agrees that camelCase is terrible, though. 21:08:56 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:09:06 I do prefer the hyphens 21:09:17 cheryllium: camelCase is problematic because lisp is sort-of case insensitive. CamelCase and cAmelcAse are the same symbol. |cAmElCaSe| is a different one, though 21:09:21 When in Lisp, do as Lispers do. 21:09:37 so hyphens is what people do. 21:09:45 that makes a lot of sense, thank you! 21:09:53 -!- jmolinaso [~smuxi@d54C39A61.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:09:58 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:10:16 MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:12:21 zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0002.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:13:59 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:54 jmolinaso [~smuxi@d54C39A61.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 21:15:03 dim: you REALLY could benefit from using uiop/pathname 21:15:13 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 21:15:20 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:15:23 subpathname, merge-pathnames*, parse-native-namestring, parse-unix-namestring, etc. 21:15:23 or cl-fad, or iolib.pathnames 21:15:31 no, cl-fad SUCKS BALLS 21:15:43 iolib.pathnames is probably good, but then you pull in all of iolib 21:15:45 I used to like it, I don't any more, true 21:16:03 *drewc* would prefer sucking balls over cl-fad, fwiw 21:16:07 I use other iolib facilities already, and postmodern is pulling it too 21:16:07 cl-fad has lots of good ideas, but the implementation is a big failure. 21:16:43 I'm currently using a mix of cl and iolib pathnames 21:16:50 uiop supersedes cl-fad. Friends don't let friends use cl-fad. 21:17:01 I don't remember why I dismissed uiop, but I think I did 21:17:07 interesting. 21:17:14 inability to understand merge-pathnames* docstring might be why 21:17:18 if you remember why, I'm interested in the feedback. 21:17:24 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC79F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 21:17:37 uiop certainly has had bugs in the past, but I fixed them quickly, and added regression tests. 21:17:48 What will happen when you stop using Common Lisp? 21:17:54 gmcastil [~user@97-124-168-220.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:08 he will rewrite it ;-) 21:18:19 what happened when Peter Seibel stopped? 21:18:22 it being CL, damn anaphoric habits 21:18:59 Fare: yeah, uiop docs and docstrings are just awful 21:19:02 Peter Seibel never urged everyone to use his libraries at every turn. 21:19:09 dim: as compared to what? 21:19:10 they are intended at a standard copy-editor, not at a user 21:19:17 And indeed no libraries of his are in widespread use. 21:20:00 it's hard to hold responsible open source contributors for anything they did that you cared enough to use, right? 21:20:02 -!- LoicLisp [~loic@96.13.122.78.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:20:25 Not too hard. 21:20:38 It's easier when you don't have much of a choice. 21:20:44 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:20:47 does that read as "it got personal"? 21:20:48 -!- Acherontius [~user@204.116.186.34] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:21:04 s/got/became/ maybe 21:21:34 but hey, so far I'm still available to fix glaring bugs and explain the software to new maintainers, if not to implement new features 21:21:37 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:21:38 btw, who's going to Paris in May? I didn't register yet but intend to be there, would be quite happy to offer beers to my usual helpers here ;-) 21:21:54 IIUC, you'll see my not implementing new features as a feature, not a bug. 21:21:55 I have a conflict with a family holiday, otherwise I would strongly consider it. 21:22:11 I am certainly going to ECLM in Berlin and ILC in Montreal. 21:22:19 I intend to be in Paris 21:22:27 Montreal clashes with my family holiday 21:22:28 dim: I would have loved to come, but not only there's budgeting issue, I might be stright in the middle of presenting my Master's dissertation 21:23:29 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:3586:1a83:7912:5b4e] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:23:50 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:24:15 and is the NYC User Group still active? I'm visiting in very early april? 21:24:29 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:3586:1a83:7912:5b4e] has joined #lisp 21:24:42 p_l: missing your master for a conference seems unwise yeah ;-) 21:25:05 dim: I think so 21:25:23 I'm intending to go to Paris 21:25:35 dim: yes, contact Pierre de Lacaze and come speak at LispNYC! 21:25:36 dim: I intend to attend all three 21:25:44 there's a facebook page, etc. 21:26:10 fe[nl]ix: I'll meet you then, and some others too maybe, that's awesome 21:26:21 and NYC, I'll see about it yeah, thanks Fare 21:26:40 it would be a boring talk about PostgreSQL and Common Lisp, maybe pgloader, tho ;-) 21:26:59 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:27:53 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0002.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:28:29 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:29:01 ltbarcly [~textual@80.179.186.2.forward.012.net.il] has joined #lisp 21:29:11 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 21:29:52 -!- zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a003:a046:271:8314:d31c] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:59 zajn [~zajn@airbears-136-152-0-248.AirBears.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:31:24 A cuban hacker who has limited internet access, mostly access to email, asks me for help regarding lisp. Where may I direct him to? 21:32:04 Fare: Miami ? 21:32:30 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@80.179.186.2.forward.012.net.il] has quit [Client Quit] 21:33:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:28 Vivitron` [~Vivitron@172.56.12.127] has joined #lisp 21:33:28 fe[nl]ix, I suppose if this were an option to him, he wouldn't be asking. 21:33:29 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:34:46 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-edvkiznhuztirpfj] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 21:34:50 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:34:56 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 21:35:05 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-tofitkxsxlbqawov] has joined #lisp 21:35:13 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:35:24 Fare: use some web scraper to download CLTL2 and PCL, make a tarball and send it to him 21:35:29 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:35:36 -!- mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has quit [Quit: mgodshall] 21:36:04 normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 21:36:46 might be more useful to send a CD or DVD via post office, loaded with all of Quicklisp, etc. 21:37:05 hmm, I am getting an error "The function (COMMON-LISP:SETF QT::NAME-EDIT) is undefined, I think I'm doing something stupid with clos 21:37:12 Here's the relevant method http://pastebin.com/HTjJB55S 21:37:17 Fare: that might be dangerous for him 21:37:27 am I using setf correctly? 21:37:29 prxq: more so than using email? 21:37:46 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 21:37:55 Fare: probably 21:37:59 :-( 21:38:00 what does 'limited internet access' mean? 21:38:15 cheryllium: what defined (setf name-edit)? Is that something you made? 21:38:37 no, I thought setf was a built-in function... 21:38:41 maybe you can send him an unopened box of some linux distro that comes with everything including sbcl, so whoever checks the mail sees it's just a product 21:38:47 he says he's looking specifically for mailing-lists 21:38:49 cheryllium: Sure. But (setf name-edit) is not. 21:39:06 ah. well, what I am trying to do is set name-edit as an instance variable 21:39:08 I suppose he mostly has access to email filtered by KGB agents. 21:39:16 with the new QLineEdit as the value 21:39:23 cheryllium: what is the definition of the MYAPP class? 21:39:38 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:39:44 cheryllium: does it have a slot with an accessor of NAME-EDIT or writer named (SETF NAME-EDIT)? 21:39:55 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:39:59 no, it does not 21:40:01 -!- xani [~user@178.183.144.254.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:40:23 You can't use SETF with arbitrary names; CL has to know what to do with it. 21:40:25 ah, do I need to specify the instance variables in the defclass? 21:40:40 cheryllium: those are called slots, and yes, they are typically specified in the defclass. 21:41:14 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:41:26 in addition to specifying the slot name, you can specify methods that can read and write values in the slot. 21:42:07 much of the time those methods relate closely to the slot name, but not always, especially when implementing bits of a protocol with those automatic slot methods. 21:43:13 is the :accessor field a function, or a variable? I am looking through an example code, and it has in its defclass this: (conversionRate :accessor conversionRate) 21:43:29 I have read that accessor specifies "how to read and write to the slot" 21:43:29 bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ojzjroucahxhvkmb] has joined #lisp 21:43:32 a generic function name, implicitly defined if not presend 21:43:36 but I'm not sure what that means in this instance 21:43:51 conversionRate is not defined anywhere else in this code example, not as a function 21:43:59 Fare: FWIW, https://github.com/qitab/qmynd/commit/62fc85a1cfa5b04679b9d17461152e9cd4af107d and https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/issues/40#issuecomment-36558869 21:44:01 cheryllium: :accessor conversionRate defines two methods for CONVERSIONRATE and (SETF CONVERSIONRATE). 21:44:21 cheryllium: creating the generic functions if necessary. 21:44:26 cheryllium: camelcase is not good CL style 21:44:33 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:44:34 conversion-rate is more colloquial 21:45:16 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:38 Xach - yeah, that's why I asked about the camelCase earlier :) so the (setf conversionrate) will be defined by default using :accessor conversionRate? 21:45:41 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:13 dim: wow. Looks great. 21:46:24 cheryllium: i'm not sure what you mean by "by default", but yes, that slot option introduces that function. 21:46:41 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:47:03 ok I get it that you're happy I'm doing the work, no need to be enthused about the specific patches, I'm not looking for that, only trying to decide how much you care as you're not really telling 21:47:20 Fare: and thanks for the kind words ;-) 21:47:48 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:47:57 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-193-29.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:48:00 dim: would you be interested in becoming the official maintainer? 21:48:13 xani [~user@178.183.147.143.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 21:48:21 well I'm interested to know if I have to be 21:48:32 all I've done was review alejandro's code and do a few cleanups, really 21:48:32 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:37 the current situation with me having the push privilege is perfect 21:48:57 Malice_ [~Malice@94-229-220-135.static.espol.com.pl] has joined #lisp 21:48:58 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 21:49:03 ok I won't bother you about minute details of the patches I'm pushing then 21:49:08 you have notifications anyway I suppose 21:49:23 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 21:49:36 thanks again for publishing the code in the first place and helping me take over (somehow) 21:50:06 yes, I also did the publishing, that's true. 21:50:16 I like good code to be used. 21:50:25 the good code is asedeno's, though. 21:52:49 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:53:07 dim: I just added you as owner on github 21:54:26 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Lingo - http://www.lingoirc.com] 21:54:26 it's not that good to be honest 21:54:26 -!- Vivitron` [~Vivitron@172.56.12.127] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:32 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:54:57 -!- Near [~Near@unaffiliated/near] has quit [Quit: L] 21:55:06 but I like not having to use an unstable mysql.so (4.1, 5.0, 5.5 etc) where I had no control over encoding and memory, I picked qmynd for being more hackable than cl-mysql 21:55:15 Fare: thanks! 21:56:16 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears-136-152-0-248.AirBears.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:49 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-yivjvllstqhwejgv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:59:34 -!- patrick85 [~patrick85@37-5-232-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:13 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:00:57 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:01:17 slarti [~anonymous@184.169.17.139] has joined #lisp 22:02:54 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:03:20 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:37 Emily22 [~Emily22@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 22:03:55 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 22:04:51 -!- Emily22 [~Emily22@95.141.20.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:13 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-135-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:05:37 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-135-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:00 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-173-51.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:06:04 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:06:30 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:06:30 -!- CrazyEddy [~fluoresce@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:06:55 -!- matija [~matija@188-230-156-48.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:07:15 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:07:55 normanrichards [~textual@adsl-99-18-228-41.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:36 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:08:36 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:08:38 -!- pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:33 -!- seantallen [seantallen@nat/theladders/x-kkgsqivkgkbihcoj] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 22:12:11 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 22:12:29 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13:50 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:15:18 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 22:18:48 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:19:20 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:53 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 22:19:59 CrazyEddy [~patrimoni@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 22:20:12 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:20:29 orthecreedence [~kvirc@12.222.165.126] has joined #lisp 22:22:35 would anyone here be willing to review some code I wrote for its style? it is not too long or complex code 22:23:05 Fare [~fare@172.56.34.98] has joined #lisp 22:23:35 it is here if anyone would like to take a look. I'd appreciate it a lot :) http://pastebin.com/tKP6MH6G 22:25:21 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:26:37 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:28:33 jaaso_ [jaaso@cable-146-255-152-38.dynamic.telemach.ba] has joined #lisp 22:30:29 -!- Fare [~fare@172.56.34.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 22:30:33 cheryllium: looks fine to me =]. maybe declare :default values in your classes, but other than that i see no problems (didnt run it tho) 22:30:58 thanks! what do you mean by default values? 22:31:29 as in, would it be better to set the values of name-edit, etc in the defclass rather than using setf in init-ui? 22:31:52 -!- jaaso [jaaso@cable-146-255-152-38.dynamic.telemach.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:31:58 (defclass myclass () ((name :accessor name :initform nil))) 22:32:07 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:32:21 no, just set them to an initial value (nil is fine) so if you use them *before* you setf them, you don't get an error 22:32:36 Asgeir [~asgeir@tri59-1-82-233-201-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:47 also, i tend to always create a separate package for my testing code: 22:32:52 often the error is more helpful than getting a NIL 22:32:52 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:33:13 (defpackage :qt-test (:use :cl :qt)) (in-package :qt-test) 22:33:24 prxq: fair enough, good point 22:33:40 depends on what you're doing 22:33:45 indeed 22:35:03 -!- xani [~user@178.183.147.143.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 22:35:31 MoALTz_ [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:37:42 is it a good idea to always put your code in a package? personally I tend to only use packages when the project spans multiple files. 22:38:08 I almost always put my code in a package. The exceptions are fairly esoteric use-cases. 22:38:08 to avoid name clashes anyway...... 22:38:27 If it's going in a .lisp file, it's getting a defpackage form. 22:38:28 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:38:56 You have the right to a package. If you do not provide a package, one will be provided for you. 22:39:01 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:39:05 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:39:34 -!- jaaso_ [jaaso@cable-146-255-152-38.dynamic.telemach.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:39:45 if I have my own package, and I call functions from qt, do I need to do qt:function or are these namespaces merged? 22:39:54 using the syntax orchecreedence provided earlier 22:40:15 cheryllium: if :qt is in the :use clause, you can use external qt symbols without a prefix 22:40:19 you can call them qualified 22:40:20 -!- zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-178-003-160-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:40:28 or you can use (usepackage :blah) 22:40:39 thanks. btw, from how I understand it, I need to do (named-readtables:in-readtable :qt) in order to merge the qt namespace with my current one 22:40:40 oleo: usepackage is not a CL function. 22:40:46 (in my current source) 22:41:05 is that correct? I'm not sure how well I understand readtables from what I've read online. 22:42:25 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:42:34 -!- wheelsucker [~wheelsuck@168.114.240.151] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 22:42:36 it's use-package yes 22:42:47 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 22:43:15 DECODING TABLE NAMES MATCHING ~/messed/, ~/encoding/ AS utf8 ;;; that pgloader needs this clause to be able to import some data is saying a lot about MySQL approach to data quality 22:43:49 cheryllium: are you aware that readtables are different of packages ? 22:43:49 -!- slarti [~anonymous@184.169.17.139] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:59 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:44:11 (sorry, I missed the beginning of the discussion) 22:44:20 Heh. You want encoding data quality issues? How about a CSV file with data in three separate encodings, in one case two separate encodings on one line. 22:44:20 read tables are a bit of an advanced lisp feature as well 22:44:39 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:18 slarti [~anonymous@184.169.17.139] has joined #lisp 22:45:25 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:45:34 Asgeir: no. context: I am a n00b and I couldn't find much stuff online about readtables 22:45:38 ok 22:45:47 I understand that this puts the qt readtable inside the current one, or something like that? 22:45:47 use clhs 22:45:57 the hyperspec has it all 22:45:58 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:46:04 then : packages are a bit like namespaces in C++, packages in Java or Python 22:46:07 named-readtables aims to reduce conflicts in readtables by naming them and providing operations to work with more than one. 22:46:24 without named-readtables it's ad hoc and the potential for clobbering stuff is greater 22:46:24 http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/23_.htm 22:46:29 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:46:59 cheryllium: using the in-readtable statement just enables a "new" syntax 22:47:06 JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:40 ah, so that means I still need to do named-readtables even if I do a defpackage... that makes sense 22:47:50 yes 22:47:58 and you must do a in-package after your defpackage 22:48:03 yes, thanks 22:48:18 btw, the context for this conversation was that I asked for a code review of this http://pastebin.com/tKP6MH6G 22:48:20 is that qt requirement or a generic defpackage requirement? 22:48:24 you should really read the chapters about packages and symbols of the PCL (practical common lisp) 22:48:58 Those are good. 22:49:23 yeah those chapters really nailed the understanding of packages for me 22:51:07 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 22:51:07 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:51:21 *Xach* didn't fully grok it until writing a clone 22:51:44 -!- slarti [~anonymous@184.169.17.139] has quit [Quit: slarti] 22:52:02 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:52:23 of defpackage Xach ? 22:52:25 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52:52 Another question about symbols and packages: when I do (defclass foo ((bar :accessor bar-of))) it seems to create two generics functions to access the bar slot : a bar-of "reader" and a (setf bar-of) "writer" ; my question is: is it possible to export bar-of but not (setf bar-of) ? In other terms, when I create a class with some slots, can I make some of these slots "read-only" outside their package ? 22:53:22 whartung: i cloned the whole thing. make-package, import, export, find-symbol, use-package, conditions, etc. 22:53:23 Vivitron [~Vivitron@50.172.44.193] has joined #lisp 22:53:37 that's one way to learn it for sure :) 22:53:57 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:57 it made me want to write an introductory document to replace Gat's awful thing. still haven't done it yet. 22:54:02 the PCL chapters are good, though. 22:54:15 gump [~gump@host86-178-83-10.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:39 -!- gump [~gump@host86-178-83-10.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:55:15 nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:55:22 write another class which inherits from that and override the behaviour.... 22:55:37 Asgeir: exporting is exporting of symbols, not (setf foo). you can however specify a separate reader and writer and only export the name of one. 22:55:37 is one way i think.... 22:56:58 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:57:25 okay, thanks 22:57:40 it does say something that something as fundamental as packages can be written in CL for CL, in case, you know, you were unhappy with packages now, 22:57:48 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:13 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:58:23 I don't want to use separate names for my reader and my writer, therefore I'll export the whole accessor. 22:58:47 whartung: Well, I didn't really replace the package system as much as implement the same API in a different package. 22:59:59 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:00:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:01:26 -!- sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:02:43 But it was somewhat enlightening to see how it could be implemented pretty easily with a set of hash tables. 23:02:47 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:01 And it made me understand why shadowing-import-from is needed, for example, and the exact causes of symbol conflicts 23:03:04 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 23:03:31 And it makes me think that the pervasive use of designators in symbol and package functions made things take longer to understand for me. 23:03:32 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:04:20 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 23:06:43 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 23:08:37 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:c8cc:233a:77:a628] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:58 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:09:12 vkrest 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[~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:55 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 23:30:55 FareWell [hNEC63m@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:18 -!- Fare [YYvDV@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32:12 vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:35 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 23:32:51 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:33:05 vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 23:34:14 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:34:41 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzzZ] 23:35:41 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:36:37 -!- FareWell [hNEC63m@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:37:38 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.22.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:37:39 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:38:18 slarti [~anonymous@12.181.94.130] has joined #lisp 23:46:58 -!- therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:46:59 -!- normanrichards [~textual@adsl-99-18-228-41.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:49:24 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:49:28 FareWell [fare@nat/google/x-jzxganhvwvmukfnd] has joined #lisp 23:49:31 fchurca [~fchurca@186.13.4.208] has joined #lisp 23:50:09 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 23:53:35 -!- fchurca [~fchurca@186.13.4.208] has quit [Client Quit] 23:53:50 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:18 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 23:55:25 Xach: What is your opinion of designators now? 23:56:19 pillton: what kind of designators 23:56:19 FareWell, memo from dim: https://github.com/qitab/qmynd/pull/5 23:56:19 FareWell, memo from dim: https://github.com/qitab/qmynd/pull/6 ;; I'd rather you vote on this before I push it, unless you want me to just go and maintain qmynd (I'd rather not, but depend on it now) 23:56:33 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-143.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:21 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:37 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:57:59 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:58:23 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 23:58:28 pillton: I like 'em. but until i wrote versions of all the symbol and package functions without designators, i was confused about which functions took symbols and which took strings, and why. 23:58:32 FareWell: Well I presume Xach was referring to package designators, but there are pathname designators and probably a others. 23:58:48 pillton: mostly it was the fact that in some cases 'foo:bar is used just for "BAR" 23:58:58 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 23:59:03 Xach: I see. 23:59:21 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:59:33 for example, i did (shadow 'foo) sometimes, and didn't realize that really meant (shadow '("FOO")) and why. 00:01:00 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:01:03 -!- slarti [~anonymous@12.181.94.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:02:25 what does slime-fancy do? 00:02:34 Xach: unintern is the one that gets me. 00:02:44 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@25.red-80-29-94.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 00:02:45 I was just about to say that. 00:02:58 (let ((a 'foo)) (unintern a) a) 00:03:01 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:03:17 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:30 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:42 Mae26 [~Mae26@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 00:03:51 vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:9c06:618a:ed7a:91ea] has joined #lisp 00:04:10 __prefect [~prefect@koln-4d0b587e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:46 writing uiop/package was a learning experience on CL packages. It was interesting to see how rehoming symbol works on all implementations. 00:04:54 slarti [~anonymous@173-121-78-130.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:56 -!- Mae26 [~Mae26@95.141.20.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:00 zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a003:5528:671e:4d4f:da8b] has joined #lisp 00:05:00 It is strange to me that there is no PATHNAME-DESIGNATOR type. 00:05:07 (except that on a few, you have to also rehome associated setf-symbols) 00:05:28 pillton: (deftype pathname-designator () '(or string pathname)) 00:05:54 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.192.106] has joined #lisp 00:05:55 -!- cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.213.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:06:05 I realise that, but why was it omitted? 00:06:35 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4db43dcb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:06:46 or maybe (defgeneric my-coerce (class object)) and then let users define coercions. 00:07:01 omitted from what? 00:07:22 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@e178052111.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:07:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:08:00 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@173.231.115.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:08:04 The spec. It has an entry in the glossary. 00:08:24 let's just say that pathnames are a big failure point of CL 00:08:57 I don't share that opinion, but I haven't implemented UIOP. 00:09:48 -!- slarti [~anonymous@173-121-78-130.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:10:25 -!- zimrilim [~quassel@12.250.157.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:25 -!- zimri-lim [~quassel@12.250.157.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:58 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-90-212.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:11:50 pathname is indeed awkward 00:16:41 FareWell: I think a my-coerce is not a bad idea; I've called it "designated", with a corresponding designatedf to replace a designator with the object it designates 00:17:05 -!- Asgeir [~asgeir@tri59-1-82-233-201-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:23:12 fridim__ [~fridim@65.93.79.33] has joined #lisp 00:24:37 cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.198.163] has joined #lisp 00:25:04 -!- Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:14 alambert [~alambert@unaffiliated/alambert] has joined #lisp 00:26:10 -!- alambert [~alambert@unaffiliated/alambert] has left #lisp 00:27:11 Zomgbot67 [~Zomgbot67@99-28-121-12.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:22 Vivitron: Doesn't MY-COERCE assume that there is a one to one mapping between subtypes of the designator? 00:27:48 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 00:28:29 -!- __prefect [~prefect@koln-4d0b587e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:29:34 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:31:09 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 00:31:31 Any thoughts on if the package system would be better if package names were symbols? 00:32:04 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:33:12 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:33:17 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-tofitkxsxlbqawov] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 00:33:37 pillton: Sorry I don't understand the question 00:33:39 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 00:34:51 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 00:39:19 Vivitron: Take pathnames for example. The string "/tmp/test" on a Unix system can refer to a file or a directory. A Lisp pathname created via MAKE-PATHNAME has no ambiguity. 00:39:54 Vivitron: How would MY-COERCE handle that situation? 00:41:10 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 00:42:39 pillton: Ah yes, I think useful designators probably need to map to a unique object 00:45:30 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 00:45:34 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 00:47:43 It is not the desognator it is at fault. It is the string subtype. It is merely a container of a path. 00:48:00 '(:file "/tmp/test") or '(:directory "/tmp/test") would solve the issue. 00:48:37 -!- orthecreedence [~kvirc@12.222.165.126] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:50:06 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:2f10:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:50:12 I have the same issue with a 2D shape where I have two different types stored in the same container e.g. #(x1 x2 x3 y1 y2 y3) versus #(x1 y1 x2 y2 x3 y3). 00:54:31 -!- varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-twpmaugwyjkppsll] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 00:56:59 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-90-212.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03:58 -!- mksan_ [~fabian@1-1-10-33a.rny.sth.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:22 -!- mksan [~fabian@1-1-10-33a.rny.sth.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:04:49 -!- harish_ [~harish@175.156.103.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:05:30 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 01:05:51 -!- cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.198.163] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:12 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Quit: restartin'] 01:07:42 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 01:10:03 pillton: In some cases you can resolve it on the specifier side: (designated 'file-path ...), (designated 'directory-path ...) 01:10:38 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:11:20 mksan [~fabian@1-1-10-33a.rny.sth.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 01:11:28 mksan_ [~fabian@1-1-10-33a.rny.sth.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 01:11:35 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-101-112.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:18:45 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-101-112.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 01:20:18 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.22.11] has joined #lisp 01:20:30 -!- bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ojzjroucahxhvkmb] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:22:20 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 01:22:20 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.22.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25:42 -!- zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a003:5528:671e:4d4f:da8b] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:37 zophy [~sy@host-49-142-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:43 -!- root_empire [~michael_l@117.32.237.91] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:29:00 -!- FareWell [fare@nat/google/x-jzxganhvwvmukfnd] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:29:14 jasom: so a sample package name would be #:COMMON-LISP? 01:29:37 it'd be harder to find the right symbol object directly 01:30:28 s/find/specify/ 01:36:10 zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a003:f420:3cca:fa4f:15c5] has joined #lisp 01:36:20 nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:03 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 01:37:04 TylerDurder [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 01:37:08 TheWinnerFjk [~TheWinner@141.72.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 01:37:11 See this please http://toomanydownloads.x10host.com/?ref=511 01:37:12 -!- TheWinnerFjk [~TheWinner@141.72.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has left #lisp 01:37:29 Damn. Another one. 01:37:46 Looks like they're changing their pattern just a touch. 01:38:20 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:28 -!- TylerDurder [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Client Quit] 01:42:34 michael_lee [~michael_l@117.32.237.91] has joined #lisp 01:45:17 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 01:54:33 I'd guess that would be a different spammer, but at least that one has a referral URL that could be spam-reported 02:03:38 bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 02:03:39 Kate24 [~Kate24@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 02:04:32 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:04:53 -!- Kate24 [~Kate24@95.141.20.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:05:00 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:05:36 White_Flame: I was thinking more :common-lisp for global package names 02:05:59 White_Flame: then you could have nested packages and local nicknames quite easily 02:06:25 how would you do hierarchies? foo:bar:baz? 02:06:35 meaning baz, in the package named foo:bar 02:06:44 would :common-lisp still be a symbol in the keyword package? 02:06:51 Bike: yup, that seems unambiguous 02:07:11 FareWell [fare@nat/google/x-jphhadnfdvbcthdz] has joined #lisp 02:07:20 White_Flame: yes. If people preferred, there could be a separate top-level package, but we already have a package for global names, and it's called "KEYWORD" 02:07:58 I'd be curious about a solution that could do node.js style local dependency nesting, where you could have multiple versions of a codebase running independently wherever it'd be needed 02:08:19 instead of a globally defined :somebody:projectname 02:09:09 frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has joined #lisp 02:09:31 White_Flame: well you certainly could do :somebody:foo-v1.2 and alias it to :myproject:foo and :somebody:foo-v1.3 aliased to :mylibrary:foo 02:09:43 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 02:09:49 those aliases woudl still be global, though 02:09:59 White_Flame: well, define global 02:10:25 if you do foo:bar in the :mylibrary package, you get one and foo:bar in the myproject package you get another 02:10:26 once set up, the name :mylibrary:foo always points to the same package instance, regardless of execution context 02:10:37 White_Flame: that's a feature, not a bug 02:10:44 okay, so you'd have contextual package prefixes 02:10:49 -!- zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a003:f420:3cca:fa4f:15c5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:00 White_Flame: well there's no magic here 02:11:33 ie, *package* could hold a package prefix such as :foo:bar:baz, not just the complete package 02:11:37 'foo -> (intern "FOO" *package*) right? 02:12:32 so in my system 'foo:bar refers to "bar" in package 'foo 02:12:35 right, but what does 'foo:bar:baz mean (intern "BAZ" (package-concatenate *package* '("FOO" "BAR")))? 02:12:44 -what 02:13:01 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:13:01 because it doesn't have a leading colon 02:13:14 (intern "BAZ" (intern "BAR" (intern "FOO" *package*))) 02:13:14 presumably it interns "foo" in the current package and goes from there 02:13:59 jasom: yeah, that seems reasonable to what I thought you were saying 02:14:51 :foo already means "symbol named foo in package keyword, so I would use that as a shortcut for the global package namespace 02:14:58 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:04 if there's no leading colon, it's effectively as if you were reading (concatenate 'string *package-string-rep* ":" input-token) 02:15:09 ASau [~user@46.115.151.45] has joined #lisp 02:15:19 (for symbols only, obviously) 02:15:43 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 02:15:58 jasom: so is :foo not just short for keyword:foo any more? otherwise you could relatively redefine the global package. 02:16:18 Bike: :foo is short for :keyword:foo 02:16:25 well. yes. 02:16:34 but then :keyword:foo is short for :keyword:keyword:foo? 02:17:19 :package-name::private-sub-package:exported-symbol-in-private-package would still make sense 02:17:47 well hopefully :keyword:foo and :keyword:keyword:foo are identical 02:17:55 that seems the only sane way to do it 02:18:24 or break compatibility and eliminate the keyword package, having a true global package 02:18:29 right 02:19:01 though I think it could be easy to build in backwards compatibility to the package name accessors & intering into package "KEYWORD" 02:19:40 "For legacy purposes, the global package is named "KEYWORD"" 02:19:55 Biggest issue is that the CL reader would need a complete rewrite; can't just do it with readtables (short of rewriting the whole reader in readtables) 02:19:57 but might get into some tangles, as Bike points out 02:20:08 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:9c06:618a:ed7a:91ea] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20:29 right. However, I'd be amenable to that sort of system 02:20:57 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:01 especially if when code was loaded, it could be unaware of the package prefix it was loaded into 02:21:21 even while performing package games like manually interning 02:21:48 -!- cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:21:56 vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 02:22:13 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22:21 (in-package relative) vs (in-package :global) 02:22:38 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:10 that might require some tricky preconditions for things like ASDF-alikes 02:26:18 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:27:24 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 02:27:31 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:3586:1a83:7912:5b4e] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:27:45 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:21 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:3586:1a83:7912:5b4e] has joined #lisp 02:30:48 slarti [~anonymous@67.142.235.252] has joined #lisp 02:33:30 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-50-137-36-57.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:33:56 -!- nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:34:00 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 02:34:10 xx43 [~user@149.Red-83-59-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:46 Good lord, this is the most compact language I have ever seen... 02:35:02 -!- effy [~x@114.252.56.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:35:10 Except mabey bash, but bash is basicaly un readable. 02:38:02 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.151.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:08 -!- slarti [~anonymous@67.142.235.252] has quit [Quit: slarti] 02:38:42 ASau [~user@46.115.151.45] has joined #lisp 02:40:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has joined #lisp 02:40:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has quit [Changing host] 02:40:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 02:41:09 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 02:42:20 Zomgbot67: Yes, it's very compact in terms of computational ideas. But there are some cases where it's less compact than other dedicated syntaxes 02:42:41 (aref x 3) vs x[3], or declarations 02:43:02 but yeah, overall it's amazing how much functionality per line of code you get vs more traditional languages 02:43:13 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f6cbcf.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 02:43:39 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 02:43:57 Ok, I've only known about this language for a day, and I already love it. 02:44:06 Where has this been all my life? 02:44:14 I know the feeling :) 02:44:27 It's so dang complicated that it comes all the way back around to being simple and perfectly readable 02:44:42 s/complicated/different/ 02:45:14 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:45:45 effy [~x@222.129.238.232] has joined #lisp 02:46:00 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6df9c.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:46:32 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 02:49:18 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:49:49 harovali1 [~harovali@r186-54-16-225.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 02:52:04 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 02:53:00 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.151.45] has quit [Quit: reboot] 02:54:32 brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:10 ASau 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[~Zomgbot67@99-28-121-12.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:53:28 jerrychow [~jerrychow@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 03:54:44 -!- bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 03:55:59 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-bpuzqdjqqauuagui] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:57:32 DalekBaldwin [~user@ip68-231-209-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:19 -!- drl_ [~lat@180.249.88.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:00:19 -!- drl [~lat@180.249.88.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:03:28 -!- jerrychow [~jerrychow@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:04:20 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 04:10:37 _5kg [~zifeitong@60.191.2.238] has joined #lisp 04:10:54 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:12:04 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:49 drl [~lat@125.162.192.110] has joined #lisp 04:13:53 drl_ [~lat@125.162.192.110] has joined #lisp 04:15:21 JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:37 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:15:38 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:16:49 red`s [~red_s@187-127-210-178.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 04:17:36 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:19:37 Compact? Hah! 04:19:59 If you want compact, you know where to find APL. 04:20:07 (3=(~V)×NN)(2N)(3NV×NN(+/,Ż1 0 1.Ż1 0 1¨)-V) 04:20:19 That's my implementation of the game of life 04:20:50 (some copy and paste errors there, but you get the idea) 04:21:11 ... looks like line noise, wouldn't surprise me if it was APL. 04:21:17 It is APL 04:21:19 I wrote that code 04:22:19 Congratulations. I don't know that I could write any APL, ever. 04:22:46 :-) 04:22:51 It's actually not that hard 04:23:12 And I'm fairly sure that you didn't provide that example as a response to my comment, purely in terms of the amount of time involved. (-: 04:23:18 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:23:48 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmT80OseAGs 04:23:58 This guy writes a soduko solver in APL 04:24:08 Pretty impressive. I'm not on that level yet 04:24:47 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 04:24:59 I have enough trouble with Lisp, Forth, Bash, Puppet... I'm not up for learning APL any time soon, I'm afraid. 04:26:22 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26:57 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has joined #lisp 04:27:02 -!- percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Quit: percopal] 04:28:58 -!- r0b4 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:29:09 KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 04:31:07 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:31:54 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-132-189.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:31:59 -!- Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:33:39 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 04:34:20 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:28 Hey, I'm just trying to lure in more users of my Emacs mode :-) 04:37:13 -!- drl_ [~lat@125.162.192.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:37:22 http://elias-emacs-init.blogspot.sg/2014/01/a-first-example-of-gnu-apl-mode-for.html 04:37:32 -!- drl [~lat@125.162.192.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:39:40 eliyak [~eliyak@c-71-194-134-120.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:40 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@c-71-194-134-120.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:39:40 eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has joined #lisp 04:41:06 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:42:25 -!- karswell [~user@84.93.180.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:45:26 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 04:45:30 does that mode make it any easier to type all those funky characters? 04:45:32 karswell [~user@84.93.180.60] has joined #lisp 04:48:39 -!- loke_ [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:58 drl [~lat@125.162.192.110] has joined #lisp 04:54:11 drl_ [~lat@125.162.192.110] has joined #lisp 05:01:12 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:01:46 loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #lisp 05:01:51 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:05:24 ltbarcly [~textual@80.179.186.2.forward.012.net.il] has joined #lisp 05:05:24 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 05:07:01 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 05:08:49 -!- red`s [~red_s@187-127-210-178.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [] 05:08:57 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.188] has joined #lisp 05:09:41 akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas3-toronto02-1279463886.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:11:51 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 05:12:41 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@80.179.186.2.forward.012.net.il] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:16:41 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:20:21 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 05:20:51 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:25:25 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 05:26:42 -!- JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:27:51 people still use emacs? 05:30:27 why not ? 05:30:47 frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has joined #lisp 05:30:48 Why do people still use visual basic? 05:31:47 At least visual basic doesn't allow writing kernels... 05:32:53 -!- zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a006:5c35:f3a6:7f6a:8700] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:09 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:34:35 Sure it does. 05:41:37 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas3-toronto02-1279463886.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:42:00 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:43:11 waa_ [~waa@187-5-45-183.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 05:43:31 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 05:43:34 -!- waa_ is now known as waa 05:43:51 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 05:47:07 slarti [~anonymous@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:25 patrick85 [~patrick85@37-5-232-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 05:52:44 Fare [nnk@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:55:45 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-187-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:56:43 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-173-51.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:57:09 A few years back, I ran into 2 people who program in APL for their day job. I didn't know that was still a thing. 05:58:16 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-187-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Client Quit] 06:00:22 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:39 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-187-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:00:58 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has joined #lisp 06:01:00 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.151.45] has quit [Quit: off.] 06:02:00 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@108.60.118.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:03:33 jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-123.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:03:38 jasom: It's still used in places 06:03:56 For certain types of jobs it's much easier than R 06:04:04 R takes a lot more typing to get the same result 06:05:47 huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.30.251] has joined #lisp 06:05:50 -!- huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.30.251] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 06:08:18 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:08:56 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 06:10:26 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 06:11:27 Even COBOL is still alive 06:12:39 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 06:13:49 I know bankers who manipulate zillions of dollars with APL variants 06:13:54 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-251.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:14:20 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:16:01 Fare: Is JPM still using it? 06:16:55 is it JPM or GS ? Or maybe both? I don't remember. 06:17:13 Well, JPM released Aplus, but it hasn't been maintained in years. 06:17:33 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:18:29 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 06:19:28 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@249.221-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 06:19:28 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@249.221-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 06:19:28 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 06:20:29 -!- harish_ [~harish@27.104.25.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:21:10 -!- slarti [~anonymous@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:21:54 bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has joined #lisp 06:22:12 -!- bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 06:22:32 -!- jmolinaso [~smuxi@d54C39A61.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23:31 common-lisper [~yaaic@ip72-208-1-144.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:40 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:07 bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has joined #lisp 06:28:19 -!- common-lisper [~yaaic@ip72-208-1-144.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:31:32 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 06:32:11 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:28 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.110.248] has joined #lisp 06:32:38 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.110.248] has quit [Changing host] 06:32:38 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 06:33:53 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:35:38 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:37:58 -!- Fare [nnk@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:38:46 ski [~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 06:45:57 pranavrc_ [~pranavrc@122.174.8.253] has joined #lisp 06:47:00 -!- Foxboron [~sp00n@146.185.137.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:48:02 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:48:43 Foxboron [~sp00n@146.185.137.105] has joined #lisp 06:50:19 -!- pranavrc_ [~pranavrc@122.174.8.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:50:32 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:28 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-fggvirtldkrtfqnd] has joined #lisp 06:51:47 sdemarre [~serge@112.84-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 06:52:18 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:52:45 Malice_ [~Malice@94-229-220-135.static.espol.com.pl] has joined #lisp 06:52:59 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 06:54:10 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:56:17 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:35 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:01:30 ggole [~ggole@106-68-37-161.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:02:00 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:05:38 -!- waa [~waa@187-5-45-183.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:54 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 07:07:48 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:07:55 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 07:08:27 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-qkzvuixcrjxuyiaa] has joined #lisp 07:11:02 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:13:33 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 07:13:37 -!- Malice_ [~Malice@94-229-220-135.static.espol.com.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:15:06 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-fggvirtldkrtfqnd] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:15:33 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-fjyhiygepxitvapv] has joined #lisp 07:17:39 -!- drl [~lat@125.162.192.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:18:01 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:18:30 harish_ [~harish@175.156.103.195] has joined #lisp 07:18:48 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:19:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:19:58 apl? 07:21:08 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:21:37 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:21:38 when i hear how much money the bankers are making, i realize that i chose the wrong carrier 07:21:44 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 07:23:00 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-fjyhiygepxitvapv] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:24:58 -!- nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:55 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.14] has quit [Quit: h] 07:27:28 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl13-202-216.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 07:29:28 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-134.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:37 optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 07:30:40 frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has joined #lisp 07:32:17 Carrier? 07:32:21 Career? 07:32:23 can someone tell me whether that should work? http://paste.lisp.org/display/141473 07:33:18 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:34:02 loke damn spell check :) 07:34:26 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:34:40 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:35:23 I work with banks 07:35:31 Trust me, it's not very glorious 07:35:44 There is a reason the pay is better than in other industries 07:37:10 MoALTz_ [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:37:14 if you enjoy writing programs, banking is not a good career alternative. 07:38:49 H4ns: It doesn't matter what you enjoy doing. Doing it in the context of banking will surely squeeze out any enjoyment from the activity. 07:38:54 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 07:41:21 loke maybe you are not on a high enough position to enjoy all the money? 07:41:52 theos: I'm not working in a bank. I work for a software vendor that makes trading systems for thebanks. 07:42:26 skyLibrary [uid14629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vtwarvvlqnkljenv] has joined #lisp 07:42:44 loke oh. i was talking about the "bankers" who have all the money. or thats what people say 07:43:14 Well, let's put it this way. I could easily get a job at one of the banks, and increase my salary. I haven't, and I won.t Go figure. 07:43:37 I know enough about the working environment in the banks... 07:47:00 -!- jbemmz [~jbemmz@71.197.31.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:50:02 -!- sdemarre [~serge@112.84-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:51:38 hmm 07:52:16 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ziqorzodgxeihqzu] has joined #lisp 07:56:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-251.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:58:52 Q regarding ECL and TRACE: should that work? http://paste.lisp.org/display/141473 07:59:09 pranavrc_ [~pranavrc@122.164.96.141] has joined #lisp 07:59:45 yacks [~py@122.179.78.185] has joined #lisp 08:00:00 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:00:08 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:00:14 -!- yacks [~py@122.179.78.185] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:01:20 yacks [~py@122.179.78.185] has joined #lisp 08:04:24 -!- pranavrc_ [~pranavrc@122.164.96.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:04:27 vkrest_ [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:37 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:05:57 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:06:24 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.171.238] has joined #lisp 08:06:24 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.171.238] has quit [Changing host] 08:06:24 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 08:06:31 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 08:06:41 -!- vkrest_ [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:07:10 flip214: Seems like it should 08:07:35 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 08:08:34 loke: thanks. sigh, another bug to fix ... 08:09:56 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.55] has joined #lisp 08:12:37 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-157.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:13:52 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-fcgspuhiprhiqquv] has joined #lisp 08:13:59 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:16 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 08:14:32 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has joined #lisp 08:18:40 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:19:03 vkrest_ [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 08:20:00 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:26:09 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:27:14 -!- vkrest_ [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:29:24 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 08:29:59 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 08:31:34 frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has joined #lisp 08:34:37 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-neehvlnvoinxotan] has joined #lisp 08:34:37 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-neehvlnvoinxotan] has quit [Changing host] 08:34:37 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:34:49 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:34:49 -!- GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@mlir.info] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:35:10 lp [c5249eee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.197.36.158.238] has joined #lisp 08:35:47 hi geys 08:35:53 any body here 08:35:54 ? 08:35:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:36:01 no bodies and no geys 08:36:07 but people, yes :) 08:36:14 :D 08:36:22 hey people 08:36:31 i have a question 08:36:53 i want to learn anew programming language 08:37:01 and im confused 08:37:09 learn perl or lisp 08:37:27 ? 08:37:36 can u help 08:37:54 lp: first off: finish your sentence or question before you press enter. 08:38:23 ok 08:38:23 lp: regarding your question: what do you want to learn programming for? do you have any particular ideas what programs you're interested in writing? 08:38:38 lp: learn both - they're on opposite ends of the syntax/no-syntax dimension. Both are valuable exercises. 08:39:19 H4ns: no i have a free time and want to make use of it 08:39:36 lp: what programming languages do you know already? 08:39:44 java c 08:39:51 c++ 08:39:59 I just read some quite interesting french article about that very question, where the author argues that the all-dynamic (no compiler) perl is a trap for beginners, as it makes reading the sources way more complex (anything could happen that changes the meaning of the code, at run time, you just don't know) 08:39:59 lp: then grab "practical common lisp" and get going with common lisp 08:40:29 dim: which is, i'd say, the point of a dynamic programming language. 08:40:51 H4ns: to some extend, yes. CL can still be compiled, tho 08:41:33 ok , lisp will add more to me 08:41:36 but here lp already knows how to program, so the point doesn't really apply 08:41:40 Everything can be compiled. 08:42:05 only if you include eval in the resulting binary, yes? 08:42:12 dim: "dynamic" and "compiled" are orthogonal concepts 08:42:23 Sure. 08:42:46 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:42:57 yeah, so the author used dynamic in the context of how to understand the source code, where in perl the "environment" can impact the meaning, IIUC 08:43:04 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.55] has joined #lisp 08:43:36 but well I don't care enough to try and defend his thesis, and I didn't use perl enough (or at all) to be able to understand the finer details here anyway 08:43:52 so yeah, lp, CL is a very good choice, and Practical Common Lisp will help you 08:43:53 can u name a book for begging with lisp ? 08:44:08 minion: Practical Common Lisp 08:44:08 Practical Common Lisp: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 08:44:15 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:51 thanksssss alot dim minion 08:44:53 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has joined #lisp 08:45:09 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 08:46:34 Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-hpx-mapped-0005.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 08:51:17 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:51:34 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 08:54:58 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-101-112.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:55:24 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:2f10:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 08:55:42 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: brb] 08:55:45 Trenif [~Lefeni@c-7149e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:55:54 MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:56:28 nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:45 vkrest_ [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:01 -!- Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-7149e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:01:29 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:02:28 pranavrc_ [~pranavrc@122.164.134.200] has joined #lisp 09:02:49 -!- vkrest_ [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:03:38 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:03:58 minion: ACL 09:03:58 ACL: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/ACL 09:04:29 minion: Ansi Common Lisp 09:04:29 i'm written in common lisp 09:05:02 -!- whartung [~whartung@wsip-70-183-27-154.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:05:05 thats weird. nobody added ACL? 09:05:20 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 09:06:43 http://paulgraham.com/acl.html 09:06:45 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-101-112.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:07:14 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:07:24 -!- pranavrc_ [~pranavrc@122.164.134.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:07:55 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.122.159] has joined #lisp 09:07:55 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.122.159] has quit [Changing host] 09:07:55 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 09:12:31 whartung [~whartung@wsip-70-183-27-154.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:07 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:14:38 pranavrc_ [~pranavrc@122.164.111.134] has joined #lisp 09:15:58 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:16:48 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 09:16:56 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-50-115.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:21 stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has joined #lisp 09:18:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 09:19:39 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-101-66.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:20:46 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:21:09 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 09:21:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:22:59 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:21 pfischer [~pfischer@bas4-toronto21-1279279319.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 09:24:01 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.233.93] has joined #lisp 09:24:01 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.233.93] has quit [Changing host] 09:24:01 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 09:24:09 -!- whartung [~whartung@wsip-70-183-27-154.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:25:39 whartung [~whartung@wsip-70-183-27-154.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:40 seksifemale [~LR-partne@46-198-90-131.adsl.cyta.gr] has joined #lisp 09:26:01 -!- pranavrc_ [~pranavrc@122.164.111.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:26:54 whartung__ [~whartung@wsip-70-183-27-154.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:56 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCBA4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:27:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 09:28:01 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.192.106] has left #lisp 09:28:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:28:19 whartung___ [~whartung@wsip-70-183-27-154.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:45 -!- whartung [~whartung@wsip-70-183-27-154.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:29:48 -!- whartung___ is now known as whartung 09:31:01 some people dislike it enough, it seems. 09:31:18 -!- whartung__ [~whartung@wsip-70-183-27-154.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:31:52 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:33:37 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:35:28 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 09:36:05 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:38:04 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:47:36 -!- lp [c5249eee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.197.36.158.238] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:47:43 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.14.198] has joined #lisp 09:49:23 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:51:03 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 09:57:02 pavelpenev [~quassel@92.247.23.10] has joined #lisp 09:58:03 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-101-66.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 09:58:23 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-101-66.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:59:18 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-223-10-69.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01:56 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:02:10 dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@46-65-53-22.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:02:27 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:03:18 Near [~Near@unaffiliated/near] has joined #lisp 10:04:56 therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has joined #lisp 10:05:06 -!- karupanerura is now known as zz_karupanerura 10:05:41 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:20 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCBA4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:07:24 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:08:14 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:40 -!- wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:18 can anybody recommend a CL library for talking to graphviz? looks like there are several options 10:11:39 -!- skyLibrary [uid14629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vtwarvvlqnkljenv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:13:27 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:16:16 -!- pfischer [~pfischer@bas4-toronto21-1279279319.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: pfischer] 10:16:28 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@92.247.23.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:17:58 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:19:52 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:26:14 pranavrc_ [~pranavrc@122.174.31.51] has joined #lisp 10:27:29 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:30:41 DalekBaldwin: just pick one which you like 10:31:47 -!- Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-hpx-mapped-0005.ethz.ch] has quit [Quit: BBL] 10:34:14 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-37-161.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:34:21 przl_ [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 10:34:47 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:36:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has joined #lisp 10:36:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has quit [Changing host] 10:36:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:37:37 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:38:20 ggole [~ggole@106-68-37-161.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:39:33 Stygia [~gmpsaifi@193.104.83.223] has joined #lisp 10:40:04 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 10:40:24 -!- yacks [~py@122.179.78.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:41:15 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-50-115.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:50 it helps to know if there's a reasonable default choice. 10:42:56 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:3586:1a83:7912:5b4e] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:44:10 i prefer ACL over PCL though 10:45:15 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:d8c0:fd12:1955:2b56] has joined #lisp 10:46:54 theos: Why? 10:47:48 loke it teaches from basics. almost. then builds on the previous knowledge 10:48:13 theos: With basics you mean "with no prior programming experience"? 10:48:39 loke basics mean lisp basics 10:48:40 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Changing host] 10:48:40 aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has joined #lisp 10:48:51 -!- DalekBaldwin [~user@ip68-231-209-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:49:15 theos: Interesting. I've always found PCL to be perfectly geared toward someone with no Lisp expeirence, but prior development experience. 10:49:28 DalekBaldwin [~user@ip68-231-209-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:29 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.14.198] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 10:49:44 i gave up on PCL after reaching the dixie-chicks example... 10:50:00 theos: why? 10:50:32 Probably too distracting. 10:50:46 loke i like to learn the whole language. not just the parts that the examples use 10:51:14 i will give pcl another try once i am done with ON LISP. 10:55:22 ACL and On Lisp don't teach the whole language either. They teach the pieces Graham agrees with. CLOS isn't a part of that for one. 10:55:59 I don't know why you expect a book that isn't the language specification to do that. 10:57:20 it is interesting that people dont like graham here. 10:58:33 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 10:59:03 I just finished On Lisp :) 10:59:11 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.14.198] has joined #lisp 10:59:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:59:59 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:17 theos: that wasn't a criticism of graham. As Zhivago said, it's not a realistic goal for a book the size of ACL to cover the entire language. 11:00:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:01:29 yacks [~py@122.179.78.185] has joined #lisp 11:04:18 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:04:44 hitecnologys_ [~hitecnolo@46.233.233.239] has joined #lisp 11:04:49 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:05:54 acl is a very good, very nice book IMO. I learned the language from it and enjoyed it a great deal. 11:05:58 -!- _5kg [~zifeitong@60.191.2.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:06:18 some people hate it because Graham uses 'lst' as variable name, and similar things. 11:06:50 -!- hitecnologys_ [~hitecnolo@46.233.233.239] has quit [Client Quit] 11:07:08 hitecnologys_ [~hitecnolo@46.233.233.239] has joined #lisp 11:08:25 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.14.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:10:29 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:16:50 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 11:21:21 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:24:25 tic_ [~tic@c83-248-7-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:25:51 -!- tic_ is now known as mikaelj 11:26:48 -!- hitecnologys_ is now known as hitecnologys 11:26:53 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.233.239] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 11:27:09 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.233.239] has joined #lisp 11:27:53 mal_ i was not referring to Zhivago_. i have seen a few others dislike graham for some reason. but my experience from reading his books is that he is in love with lisp :) or was in love at some point when he wrote the books. also ACL talks about CLOS in ch. 11 11:29:28 prxq: acl being which book? 11:29:44 ansi common lisp by graham 11:29:48 a, that. 11:30:12 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCBA4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:31:37 some of his patterns are outdated or deprecated though 11:31:45 that makes PCL a better introduction, I think 11:33:26 which reminds me theos, if you run into problems getting some stuff in On Lisp to work (and you will), look at my repository: https://github.com/DalekBaldwin/on-lisp 11:33:54 DalekBaldwin thanks 11:40:35 DalekBaldwin: thanks, too. 11:47:06 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:12 _5kg [~zifeitong@60.191.2.238] has joined #lisp 11:58:24 -!- _5kg [~zifeitong@60.191.2.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:58:32 cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 11:58:37 -!- aluuu [~aluuu@77.242.110.178] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:02:18 -!- yacks [~py@122.179.78.185] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:07:48 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:11:48 -!- nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 12:12:06 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 12:12:48 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-132-189.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:51 pavelpenev [~quassel@92.247.23.10] has joined #lisp 12:15:02 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:15:53 uzo [~uzo@207.87.40.22] has joined #lisp 12:16:19 -!- DalekBaldwin [~user@ip68-231-209-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has left #lisp 12:17:40 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:22:01 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:24:16 -!- uzo [~uzo@207.87.40.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:24:16 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-37-161.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:24:24 theos: I don't like Graham's book for learning Common Lisp because it is clear, in hindsight, he dislikes many of the things that are good about Common Lisp. I prefer to learn Common Lisp from books by people who seem to know it well and enjoy using it. 12:24:57 I don't think it's bad for getting ideas about other things. 12:25:28 Xach i see. do you recommend other books? except PCL because i have it. 12:26:18 icthiele [~user@ip72-198-206-251.om.om.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:45 here's proof that pg was the co-inventor of lisp! http://thequickword.wordpress.com/2014/02/16/james-irys-history-of-programming-languages-illustrated-with-pictures-and-large-fonts/ 12:26:55 now called arc. 12:26:59 :) 12:28:18 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:29:27 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCBA4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:22 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 12:30:56 __stdout [~Nico@p549F4BA6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:31:12 -!- __stdout [~Nico@p549F4BA6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 12:31:37 theos: I like Paradigms of AI Programming by Norvig 12:32:16 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:32:30 Xach thanks, i have that book :) 12:32:50 keene's book on CLOS is good too 12:33:07 theos, the author of PAIP likes python, so he's tres cool! 12:33:57 bjorkintosh eww python :D 12:34:12 check out his website. lots of tips on lisp. 12:34:14 lots. 12:34:24 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-134.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:35:24 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:33 ggole [~ggole@220-253-138-224.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:38:58 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:39:53 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:42:34 _5kg [~zifeitong@60.191.2.238] has joined #lisp 12:44:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:45:37 -!- atgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-21-164.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:46:12 pavelpenev_ [~quassel@148.69.92.62.static.cust.telenor.com] has joined #lisp 12:46:23 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@92.247.23.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:47:56 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-58cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: exit(EXIT_FAILURE);] 12:50:05 pavelpenev [~quassel@92.247.23.10] has joined #lisp 12:50:35 -!- pavelpenev_ [~quassel@148.69.92.62.static.cust.telenor.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:50:52 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl13-202-216.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51:35 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.223] has joined #lisp 12:52:01 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 12:57:17 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-251-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 12:58:03 r0b4 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 13:01:48 __stdout [~Nico@p549F4BA6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:06:19 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 13:06:46 nialo` [~bcoburn@bcoburn.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:46 staykov [~wiggin@cable.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 13:07:53 loke_ [~elias@2400:d803:7342:f91a:b4dc:5e4c:b80f:4d97] has joined #lisp 13:09:06 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-24-17-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:09:16 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:11:46 rvchangue_ [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-007-207.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:12:49 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:12:49 -!- rvchangue_ is now known as rvchangue 13:12:49 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-007-207.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:12:49 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 13:13:59 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-187-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:14:31 in babel, we have (define-condition end-of-input-in-character (character-decoding-error) ...), and I'm handling character-decoding-error in an handler-bind form where parts of the processing should not apply to end-of-input-in-character 13:15:19 my understanding is that if I have (handler-bind ((end-of-input-in-character ...) (character-decoding-error ...)) ...) then only the code in the first entry will get executed in case of an end-of-input-in-character condition being signaled 13:15:21 right? 13:15:34 -!- icthiele [~user@ip72-198-206-251.om.om.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15:53 dim: try it 13:15:56 (that's how to read the visual analogy with typecase I think) 13:16:08 well I don't have the necessary bits to reproduce the bug report myself 13:16:18 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 13:16:43 it seems to me it's the right way to read the docs, but well, I figured I might ask 13:17:08 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:17:54 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Changing host] 13:17:54 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-kuwzoshfojzrsekr] has joined #lisp 13:18:09 dim: you're right if the handler accepts. if it declines, it will proceed to the next matching clause. 13:18:32 the handler "accepts" (I think) by doing (invoke-restart ...) 13:18:39 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:18:50 I mean in my code the handler is actually doing the invoke-restart, which means "accepting" IIUC 13:19:43 -!- patrick85 [~patrick85@37-5-232-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:52 any non-local transfer would do, invoke-restart is a good one. 13:20:20 thanks! 13:23:08 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:24:48 -!- zmyrgel1 [~zmyrgel@a91-153-150-75.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:25:28 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.26] has joined #lisp 13:28:04 JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:46 seantallen [seantallen@nat/theladders/x-claiqrjyzaolzehn] has joined #lisp 13:34:27 vaporatorius [~vaporator@25.red-80-29-94.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:08 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:39 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:37:37 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37:54 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:13 Xach: I'll look into a good way to get a "latest" url for slime releases for the next release. 13:39:34 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 13:39:43 Natch [~Natch@c-58cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:41:36 -!- nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:42:10 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl13-202-216.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 13:42:25 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:42:43 -!- __stdout [~Nico@p549F4BA6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 13:44:11 -!- therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:29 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:45:38 -!- pranavrc_ [~pranavrc@122.174.31.51] has quit [] 13:46:01 -!- da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:46:08 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.203.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:46:13 xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.203.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:46:37 da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:48:12 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@98.255.30.38] has joined #lisp 13:50:40 -!- da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:51:37 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 13:51:54 luis: thanks. 13:53:20 therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has joined #lisp 13:54:17 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:55:36 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:56:48 fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317685.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:57:01 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-50-137-36-57.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:58:28 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl13-202-216.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:50 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 13:58:56 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-101-66.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:59:55 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:17 akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas3-toronto02-1279463886.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:04:43 davazp [~user@167.Red-88-15-120.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:20 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:06:08 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 14:11:46 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:13:31 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-93-209.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:15:48 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-cokzlvoiojrxhzdd] has joined #lisp 14:16:56 luis: what are the chances of a cffi release soon? 14:18:09 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:18:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:18:43 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.26] has joined #lisp 14:20:11 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 14:20:55 -!- seksifemale [~LR-partne@46-198-90-131.adsl.cyta.gr] has quit [] 14:23:48 LiamH [~none@129-2-129-146.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 14:24:14 *Xach* ponders using git snapshot 14:25:51 -!- JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:26:32 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:10 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:13 Zomgbot67 [~Zomgbot67@99-28-121-12.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:07 atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-jrzzwelaoiuenxuv] has joined #lisp 14:31:13 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:33:17 Xach: I can release it tonight, does that work for you? 14:33:53 Xach: isn't https://github.com/slime/slime/archive/master.zip is what you're looking for? 14:34:03 (that's ~8 hours from now) 14:34:05 hitecnologys: I don't think so. 14:34:24 hitecnologys: that points to the beeding edge, not the latest release. 14:34:25 luis: that's great, thanks. it's related to galdor's patches and lisp and zmq 14:34:40 Ah, so you need stable releases, right? 14:34:54 hitecnologys: That is what I'd prefer. 14:35:00 Xach: I see. 14:35:16 Xach: I use master for that and commit unstable changes to "develop" branch. 14:35:39 Xach: why don't you ask developers to create another branch for stable releases? 14:35:50 hitecnologys: I don't think it is necessary. 14:36:28 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl13-202-216.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:36:42 Xach: there's another way: having tag called "latest" that always points to laters release or something like that. 14:37:01 I will leave it in luis's capable hands to find the best way for him to help me. 14:38:16 Yeah, that would actually be wise not to listen to my suggestions too much. 14:38:24 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-251-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:24 JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:39 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:41 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-kuwzoshfojzrsekr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:40:04 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-50-134-206-238.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:40:37 hitecnologys: feel free to join the brainstorming at https://github.com/slime/slime/issues/124 14:41:05 oh frabjous day! 14:41:20 *Xach* has recovered @lispmeetings 14:43:13 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:43:34 -!- LiamH [~none@129-2-129-146.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:44:18 Xach: Congratulations. 14:45:10 what's @lispmeetings ? 14:45:45 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-qkzvuixcrjxuyiaa] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:46:17 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.22.11] has joined #lisp 14:47:20 Xach: cool ;-) 14:48:22 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 14:49:01 fe[nl]ix: it is a twitter account that tweets about http://planet.lisp.org/meetings/ 14:49:17 or, it used to, until twitter required more complex auth and i didn't adapt. 14:49:30 Xach: oh, that's good. 14:49:31 Acherontius [~user@204.116.186.34] has joined #lisp 14:49:50 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-199-91.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:50:27 ... When did twitter do that? 14:50:38 Xach: I was wondering why it hasn't been updated. Turns out you just lost control over it. 14:50:41 Shinmera: I can't tweet with chirp, though :( I am getting a 401. Auth proceeds as expected but it gives an error with statuses/update. 14:50:49 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-199-91.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:51:03 http://paste.lisp.org/display/141478 14:51:04 Xach: Does ACCOUNT/SELF return the proper object? 14:51:23 Shinmera: seems to, # 14:51:27 Hrm, interesting 14:51:36 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 14:51:38 Xach: Is the application you use authorized to tweet on the behalf of users? 14:51:58 hmm, I think so, i'll check again. 14:52:27 Shinmera: "* Post tweets for you" is in the auth page 14:52:57 ASau [~user@176.5.184.127] has joined #lisp 14:52:59 That is unnerving news then. I'll create some new applications and test accounts to see if I can recreate this. 14:53:44 luis: I'm actually trying to solve the same problem. I really don't like having version hard-coded in system defintion because always forget to bump it and having URL pointing to lastest version would be nice too. 14:55:03 nyef: Twitter stopped password based auth (XAuth) a few years back. You have to use OAuth now, unless you get some form of special permission from them. 14:55:12 przl_ [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 14:55:40 Okay, thanks. I was slightly worried for a bit there. 14:55:59 hitecnologys: have a look at CFFI's release.lisp script. 14:56:07 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:57:17 hitecnologys: http://blog.cddr.org/2012/06/05/the-why-of-version-dot-lisp-expr/ 14:58:30 cory786 [~cory@75.22.101.128] has joined #lisp 14:59:29 I should still have a script kicking around from the SBCL-CVS-with-git-mirror days that takes a series of git commits, updates version.lisp-expr in each of them, prepends the version number to the commit message, and pushes them as a series of CVS commits. 15:00:17 Back when we maintained version.lisp-expr manually. (-: 15:00:22 Poenikatu [~kvirc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has joined #lisp 15:00:32 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl13-202-216.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:56 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:01:12 fe[nl]ix: that's what I'm using now, still not satisfied. 15:01:18 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:01:59 what's wrong with it ? 15:02:02 luis: huh, looks nice. Thanks. 15:03:09 fe[nl]ix: well, I always forget to bump version. That's why I wrote script for bumping version. Still not satisfied. I guess the actual problem is somewhere between my chair and screen. 15:03:10 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:57 hitecnologys: as i am not afraid of editing my .asd file during the release process, i have written this simple script to make all edicl releases https://github.com/edicl/release-script/blob/master/make-release.sh 15:04:04 the process has been painless ever since. 15:04:25 hitecnologys: thanks for the fox, btw. my daughter liked it a lot :) 15:05:23 H4ns: oh, that's nice. I'm glad somebody is finally happy with what I do. 15:05:33 Xach: Can you send me the fields output of the OAUTH-REQUEST-ERROR instance? It has a bunch of request data that might be useful for me to figure out what's going on 15:05:42 Everyone's got their own release script. :-) 15:06:11 luis: 'course. it was just the "unsafe" in that blog post that made me share mine :) 15:06:27 I think we need, one and for all, to make The Ultimate Release script suitable for everyone and everything. 15:06:43 where is fare when you need him? 15:07:05 if he starts on that, he'll probably, finally, really get mad 15:07:21 H4ns: thanks for the script, I'll try this approach too. 15:08:19 *luis* feels all smug because his release script is written in Lisp 15:08:25 -!- CrazyEddy [~patrimoni@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:08:32 luis: mine too. 15:08:35 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-24-17-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:09:02 Shinmera: best way to send? 15:09:09 luis: I thinking about rewriting all my script in Lisp actually. 15:09:35 my advice is: if they're working don't touch them. ;-) 15:09:48 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas3-toronto02-1279463886.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:10:30 mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has joined #lisp 15:10:39 Xach: A text copy of the slime buffer should be good, I think 15:10:47 H4ns, yes? 15:10:54 Fare: never mind :) 15:11:00 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.22.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:11:03 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@67.136.175.194] has joined #lisp 15:11:09 Shinmera: How shall I send it to you? Are the fields confidential? 15:11:37 asdf/bin/asdf-builder is a fine release script 15:11:42 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1096587492.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:12:00 luis: nah, that's what I do all the time! Break things! 15:12:10 Xach: a paste should be fine. It won't contain any of your non-public tokens. 15:12:14 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 15:12:17 and bin/install-asdf-as-module will let you install a recent asdf in place of your implementation's 15:12:39 quite useful on LispWorks (only asdf 2.019) or SCL (no ASDF at all). 15:12:56 akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas3-toronto02-1279463886.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:13:21 the cl-launch release script is quite nice, too, written in lisp, using #!/usr/bin/cl 15:14:06 Shinmera: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141478#1 15:14:50 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 15:17:18 http://www.common-lisp.org/gitweb?p=projects/xcvb/cl-launch.git;a=blob;f=release.lisp 15:17:19 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 15:17:56 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 15:17:57 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:07 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 15:18:29 Xach: That seems fine from all I can tell. Damn. 15:18:43 Malice_ [~Malice@94-229-220-135.static.espol.com.pl] has joined #lisp 15:19:49 darn 15:20:38 I also tested it with my own application and account just now it still works for me (which is annoying). Twitter won't allow me to make new apps without linking my phone. And that in turn doesn't seem to work for me. 15:20:57 So, it'll probably take some time before I can properly debug this :( 15:21:16 hmm 15:21:18 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:25 I can try making a new app. This one is really old. Maybe it has some issue. 15:22:16 Maybe you can also try just regenerating the API keys and/or changing the app permissions. 15:22:57 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1096587492.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:23:48 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.72] has joined #lisp 15:23:52 also, asdf3 allows you to have your version in a version.lisp-expr file, using :version (:read-file-form "version.lisp-expr") 15:23:59 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:24:32 Shinmera: i just tried with a whole new app, no luck. 15:25:17 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 15:25:17 Shinmera: if i check twitter.com/applications as the client, it shows authorized. 15:25:53 Xach: Yeah it seems to work, since the account/self is an authorization test. 15:28:22 sellout- [~Adium@c-71-56-237-72.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:32 yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:48 -!- yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:28:48 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 15:29:09 Shinmera: do any of the timeline-fetching functions work? 15:30:00 Xach: should yes. Streaming should work too. 15:31:03 I get "The value :ATTRIBUTES is not of type LIST." for (statuses/user-timeline :screen-name "xach") 15:31:04 same error for similar functions 15:31:17 Oh lord what is going on.. 15:31:19 Is that to be expected? 15:31:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 15:31:49 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 15:31:57 Does the home-timeline at least work? 15:32:28 Nope. Same error. 15:33:26 Hello Xach 15:33:35 hi loke_ 15:34:04 Xach: I had a problem where CFFI from QL isn't loading on the latest ABCL. 15:34:21 loke_: OK 15:34:21 ABCL from git works though, is it just that the QL version hasn't been updated yet? 15:34:35 CFFI from git, you mean? 15:34:39 Yes 15:34:48 loke_: I use CFFI releases. luis intends to make a new one today. 15:34:50 Srry :-) 15:34:57 Ah ok 15:35:05 So then it'll work on the next QL relase 15:35:26 yes. hopefully this weekend. i need to publish some alphas. 15:35:48 Xach: git pull && reload. Had a bad parameter reference. 15:37:27 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:51 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 15:38:29 Shinmera: ok, works now. still can't tweet, though. 15:39:25 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:48 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 15:42:23 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:44:44 Xach: any progress on Quicklisp on asdf3 ? 15:45:08 Nope. 15:46:10 :-( 15:46:29 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:05 da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:48:48 -!- da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:49:32 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-199-91.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 15:49:42 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:50:33 wheelsucker [~wheelsuck@168.114.240.151] has joined #lisp 15:52:38 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas3-toronto02-1279463886.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:52:53 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@92.247.23.10] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. 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[Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:32:18 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32:57 -!- Near [~Near@unaffiliated/near] has quit [Quit: L] 17:33:13 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:33:23 Near [~Near@unaffiliated/near] has joined #lisp 17:36:56 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 17:45:17 easye` [~user@2a01:4f8:200:4310::30] has joined #lisp 17:45:19 cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.213.55] has joined #lisp 17:48:00 da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:51:32 benny` [~benny@shell.spamt.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:38 any good resource for learning lisp interactively using slime? 17:51:57 or developing/debugging software with slime 17:51:59 -!- da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:52:01 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:11 adsisco: your brains? 17:52:17 Neptu_ [~Neptu@252.67.24.31.static.mrfriday.com] has joined #lisp 17:52:38 adsisco: http://cliki.net/Online+Tutorial 17:53:06 -!- Neptu [~Neptu@252.67.24.31.static.mrfriday.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:53:06 -!- easye [~user@2a01:4f8:200:4310::30] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:53:07 -!- benny [~benny@shell.spamt.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:53:07 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:55:20 @pjb: thanks for the link, the brain comment is unnecessary 17:56:01 http://lisp-book.org/contents/chslime.pdf looks good, in case anyone is looking for similar stuff 17:56:06 just found it 17:57:29 adsisco, i don't think it was an insult. it's the answer you'll get if you ask 'any good resources for learning how to write interactively with a type writer'. 17:57:41 slime is a tool. the magic comes not from slime. 17:58:20 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 17:58:37 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:59:07 adsisco: I don't think so. I think more demonstrations of interactive slime use would be helpful. 18:00:32 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas3-toronto02-1279463886.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 18:00:54 vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has joined #lisp 18:03:28 adsisco, 'emacs slime' on youtube yiels 687 results. maybe one might help. 18:03:34 *yields. 18:03:37 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@117.32.237.91] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:44 bjorkintosh: Maybe you could help. Which one is any good? 18:04:08 adsisco: I learned by reading source code and messing around with slime, but it was a slow process. It helps to watch people who know how to drive it do their thing. 18:04:31 Xach, i'll get back to you on that. 18:05:28 I was thinking, Clojure has this browser-based repl to let newbies try clojure here http://tryclj.com/ 18:05:36 zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-178-003-160-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:44 do you think browser-based repls are a good thing to have, for people interested in a language? 18:05:48 but that doesn't get you anywhere past "hello world" 18:05:53 cheryllium: Yes. 18:05:54 whartung exactly 18:06:03 it does introduce you to the concept of a REPL though if you've never seen one before 18:06:16 I don't think anyone can "get" it (or any language) from a weak environment like that 18:06:19 For a long time, Franz had a repl to which you could telnet. It was useful. I wish there was a nice CL web repl. 18:06:33 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 18:06:37 It's a starting point, not an ending point. 18:06:54 I think there's value to it, just not as a path "for newbies ()" 18:07:01 Xach: what capabilities do you think such a repl would have? 18:07:09 There's an incomplete CL JS REPL http://davazp.net/jscl/jscl.html 18:07:12 I am debating whether it would be worth it to make such a thing for common lisp 18:07:42 Shinmera: unfortunately nothing happens when I type on that page... 18:07:47 cheryllium: All of 'em. Though I think you could start with just a plain, dumb repl and still have something useful. 18:07:57 cheryllium: hm, seems it broke in the meantime. Welp. 18:07:58 i remember there was a guy who was working on "sandboxing" CL enough for such a repl to be feasible to do within a single CL image 18:08:06 cheryllium: I think it's a hard problem for CL, but I'd love to see someone tackle it and succeed. 18:08:17 there even was a channel for people to talk to it 18:08:19 Xach: I'd like to try if there is enough perceived benefit 18:08:25 cheryllium: to whom? 18:08:26 There is sometimes the mentality that "if nobody has done it for CL already it must not be worth it", which I think is silly. 18:08:41 Xach: to people in the Lisp community but especially to those who want to try out lisp 18:08:43 cheryllium: You might be able to grab a running copy out of the git history https://github.com/davazp/jscl 18:08:51 Thanks Shinmera 18:08:58 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:09:48 cheryllium: It's not worth enough to me for me to try doing it, but I would welcome the news that someone else did it. 18:10:08 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:09 I think it would be a fun learning experience for me as well 18:10:14 this might be relevant: https://github.com/tlikonen/cl-eval-bot 18:10:31 ooh thank you 18:11:05 I'll look at some of the code here, as I've never written an interpreter before. I was going to go through the dragon book 18:11:12 cheryllium: I don't want to discourage you, but in my experience, what starts out as fun turns into a slog. I hope it remains fun enough to complete. 18:11:14 Lisp seems like it would not be difficult to parse 18:11:38 cheryllium: that does not apply to Common Lisp 18:11:40 The dragon book isn't as helpful for Lisp as something like Lisp in Small Pieces. 18:11:45 or SICP. 18:11:54 Or Paradigms of AI Programming 18:12:05 why is it not as helpful? 18:12:28 because it talks to more generic compilers, Lisp is a specific problem with it's own challenges. 18:12:38 A lot of it is about parsing program text and organizing it into meaningful data structures. That is a non-problem in Lisp. 18:12:40 Grammar isn't really an issue with Lisp, and it's a big part of the Dragon book 18:12:59 The Dragon Book is largely focused on the descendants of Algol, and for some reason contains a heavy focus on parsing theory. 18:13:01 But I don't think a web REPL for something you wrote yourself would be as useful as a web repl for an existing CL implementation. 18:13:29 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 18:13:29 that makes sense. 18:13:43 zophy [~sy@host-98-218-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:45 Xach, how would it be different to make a repl for an existing CL implementation? 18:14:10 akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas3-toronto02-1279545518.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:14:14 are you suggesting I could use an existing interpreter instead of writing my own? 18:14:17 cheryllium: making your own CL implementation takes a long, long, long time. Reusing an existing one could save some work. 18:14:38 by making a CL implementation, do you mean writing an interpreter? 18:15:04 Yes. I wouldn't find a toy Lisp web REPL very useful or interesting, personally. 18:15:12 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:17:11 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:18 If you started today with the goal of having a Common Lisp web REPL and wrote your own Common Lisp from scratch, I'd expect you to be done sometime in 2017. 18:17:19 ah, so then you'd want something where it takes your input, runs it through a lisp interpreter on the server, and then sends you back the output? 18:17:24 -!- Near [~Near@unaffiliated/near] has quit [Quit: L] 18:17:25 that is much, much easier to put together 18:17:28 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC79F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 18:17:43 Yes. But doing it safely seems like a challenge. 18:18:04 It does, but it seems I could do some input validation, like prevent you from making system calls or loading libraries. 18:18:18 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:18:21 I could also prevent any file i/o 18:18:26 I'm not sure what else... 18:18:31 That seems to be a popular notion that doesn't match up well with reality. 18:18:40 How so? 18:19:00 If I do serverside validation, there is no way to get past it without hacking the server 18:19:06 I don't want to discourage you, but when people try it, they seem to run into problems doing what they want. It may be that nobody has applied enough elbow grease. 18:19:09 cheryllium: consider instead constraining the repl process 18:19:21 p_l what do you mean? 18:19:43 Xach: I think I will try it and run into these problems for myself... at least then I will have a better understanding of them. 18:19:50 cheryllium: good plan 18:20:11 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:d8c0:fd12:1955:2b56] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:20:25 cheryllium: make it so that unless the attackers deploys a kernel bug that leads to kernel-side code execution and which requires only few standard system calls, then it doesn't matter if they can run any code in the repl 18:20:33 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:d8c0:fd12:1955:2b56] has joined #lisp 18:20:52 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 18:20:59 hmm, perhaps. I don't know how to check for that... 18:21:06 will require learning significant amount about your chosen host OS' security features, but it's possible 18:21:06 I will have to do some research on that one 18:22:08 jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has joined #lisp 18:22:18 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:22:28 cheryllium: some keywords (for linux): containers, SElinux, RSBAC, seccomp, capabilities, cgroups (especially the memcg controller), MAC, TOMOYO, defense in depth (general) 18:25:18 thanks, I wrote those down 18:25:23 docker.io (I think) is a project that helps make those containers for linux 18:25:50 whartung: or you can do it yourself 18:26:11 so the goal is to detect when input leads to kernel-side code execution? 18:26:13 of course, but that project might make it easier to get going rather than lost in the minutae 18:26:16 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 18:26:24 I have not used it 18:26:27 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:58 MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:27:59 MoALTz_ [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:28:25 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: memory access abandoned because no continuation expected] 18:29:17 MoALTz__ [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:31:18 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:32:00 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:32:46 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:33:54 docker is a bit more about distribution, though it can be useful in this case 18:34:36 cheryllium: a bunch of those are more about constraining the processes so that even if you compromise the REPL process, you can't really do anything other than maybe taking a lot of cpu time (and that can be detected and dealt with) 18:35:38 -!- zophy [~sy@host-98-218-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:35:48 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@67.136.175.194] has joined #lisp 18:36:08 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:36:37 Xach: what capabilities do you think such a repl would have? <-- make it integrated with CLHS and you're golden. "Hmm, does this work? Is it documented to work?" is most of what I use tryclj for, except I also have to google the docs afterwards 18:36:42 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:36:57 make it a single step, and it's a huge help for anyone groping around the language 18:37:23 l1sp.org already has the index for things 18:37:44 so you could bind a great deal of definitive docs, as well as relevant PCL chapters, to things 18:37:51 mathrick how would you want to reference clhs from the repl? 18:38:07 cheryllium: make each referenced form a hyperlink 18:38:20 ah I see 18:38:22 thanks! 18:38:26 ie. once you submit forms to the repl, it marks them up for recognised ones with links to the docs 18:38:42 yup 18:38:50 cheryllium: also check out FunScript's page 18:39:06 the code block that greets you has *everything* annotated, down to the types 18:39:09 it's fantastic 18:39:41 and it's all accessible on hover 18:40:05 nice, that's an awesome idea 18:40:15 short info on hover, in-details on click seems like a winner 18:40:27 yup! I can see how useful that could be 18:40:55 cheryllium: and if you do that, make it possible to link to code snippets as well. That'd be like lisppaste on steroids 18:41:13 mathrick: could you give an example? not sure how that would work 18:41:19 of what? 18:41:25 linking code snippets 18:41:33 cheryllium: sure 18:41:57 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-71-56-237-72.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:41:57 lemme just dig up an interesting paste 18:43:01 cheryllium: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141475 18:43:08 notice how you can click on LET 18:43:25 a REPL would have the advantage of being able to run the paste as well 18:43:25 BlackWabi [~wabi@ip196-211.wireless.lu.se] has joined #lisp 18:44:21 and if you tap into all the info l1sp.org already indexes, many, many things would be obvious or at least discoverable when someone gives you a snippet using unfamiliar forms 18:44:28 which you can then run and see the result of 18:45:34 -!- benny` is now known as benny 18:46:05 -!- dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@46-65-53-22.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:46:22 hmm, so you'd be able to give a link to pastebin or something? 18:47:06 Basically, what mathrick is suggesting, is that your repl would also include a pastebin 18:47:12 cheryllium: I mean make your REPL a pastebin. Just have a link/button "share this REPL" next to it, where you can pastebin/edit whatever you input into the REPL 18:47:17 oh! 18:47:36 I see 18:47:41 "share this REPL session" probably 18:47:41 that could be a nice feature 18:47:44 yes 18:47:53 it's not dissimilar to ideone 18:47:55 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:48:01 well I must leave to do groceries for a bit, thanks for all the suggestions 18:48:12 though keep in mind, well, it will probably take a while to get just a basic repl working 18:48:19 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:49:00 cheryllium: https://ideone.com/H2UCEX 18:49:34 I just noticed ideone also has CL support 18:50:14 https://ideone.com/R0visf <-- yup 18:50:18 does that mean there's no need for someone to make a cl thingy? 18:50:29 a more interactive REPL would still be nice 18:50:40 Aww don't call the REPL that 18:50:42 and make it really integrated with docs would be even nicer 18:50:44 a miserable little pile of foms? 18:51:01 cheryllium: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/what-is-a-man 18:51:07 hmm all right then! I'll continue with my project. but groceries first. bye bye 18:53:00 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:53:44 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:54:02 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:55:50 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:13 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 18:56:25 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:56:37 -!- milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:56:45 sellout- [~Adium@70-91-168-190-BusName-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:57 milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has joined #lisp 18:57:52 I've been tryout (dribble ...) in CCL. Nothing gets written. Is that a bug? 18:58:00 *trying out 18:58:38 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:01:27 Pate_ [~petrus@105-236-33-222.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:02:25 -!- Pate_ [~petrus@105-236-33-222.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Client Quit] 19:05:04 Validus [~Anonymous@cpc9-walt14-2-0-cust205.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:18 Poenikatu: In CCL, DRIBBLE wraps *TERMINAL-IO* with an ECHOING-TWO-WAY-STREAM. All subsequent I/O on *TERMINAL-IO* is echoed to the file. But you need to (FORCE-OUTPUT *TERMINAL-IO*) or close the stream with (DRIBBLE) to see it 19:05:30 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 19:08:21 -!- wheelsucker [~wheelsuck@168.114.240.151] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 19:08:35 -!- patrick85 [~patrick85@37-5-232-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:01 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@67.136.175.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11:03 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:32 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 19:15:08 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:15:48 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:15:49 billstclair: I've tried closing (DRIBBLE), but still no output. I'll try (force-output...). Thanks 19:16:24 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 19:16:44 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:16:57 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 19:19:34 billstclair: Displayed some text with (format t ...) and then (forece-output *terminal-io*) and then (dribble). Still no output. 19:19:34 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:19:48 MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:19:51 t is *standard-output*, not *terminal-io* 19:19:52 *force-output 19:19:56 -!- mindCrime_ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:14 mindCrime_ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:15 billstclair: Quite right. I'll try *terminal-io* next time. 19:21:49 billstclair: Success! Thanks a lot. 19:24:41 -!- bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:16 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:28:57 varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uctidbctxltmzfhv] has joined #lisp 19:35:01 patrick85 [~patrick85@37-5-232-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:37:54 supsikov [~user@212.252.119.178] has joined #lisp 19:40:25 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-240-27.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:40:58 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:41:18 -!- supsikov [~user@212.252.119.178] has left #lisp 19:43:06 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 19:44:52 cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-250-45.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:48:41 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 19:48:49 da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:49:46 ggkitsas [~ggkitsas@150.140.215.119] has joined #lisp 19:50:12 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Client Quit] 19:51:57 nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 19:53:36 -!- da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:53:55 __prefect [~prefect@koln-4d0b587e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:01 zacharias_ [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 19:55:13 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55:19 -!- zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 19:55:31 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:59 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:00:26 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@198-200-113-67.cpe.distributel.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:00:58 vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:3cf9:26b8:4488:5688] has joined #lisp 20:00:58 lemoinem [~swoog@198-200-113-67.cpe.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:15 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:51 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:07:19 Is there some reason why (W-O-F (*TRACE-OUTPUT #P"/..." :direction :output ...) (compile-file ...)) wouldn't work? I get the trace output sent to my REPL instead of into the file. 20:08:26 Did you spell it wrong in the repl, too? 20:08:27 did you type *trace-output by accident? 20:09:09 yes, that's a typo here. 20:09:25 in my sources I used autocompletion, and it's highlighted as special, too. 20:09:41 cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 20:09:42 that's ecl again.... 20:10:32 Perhaps it's a bug in ecl. 20:11:09 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@198-200-113-67.cpe.distributel.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:11:22 yeah, right. One of the several hundred I'm about to chase down. Or so. Very likely. 20:11:30 lemoinem [~swoog@198-200-113-67.cpe.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:43 ccl writes its compile diagnostics to *standard-output*, not *trace-output* 20:11:52 why do you think that ecl writes to *trace-output* 20:11:53 ? 20:11:57 -!- nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:16 Because I'm using (TRACE functions ....) to trace them? 20:12:33 and because TRACE-PRINT uses *TRACE-OUTPUT* .... 20:12:33 you're using trace to trace compilation? 20:12:38 yes 20:13:20 well, i'd try to find out what *trace-output* is bound to during compilation 20:13:40 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:41 well, inside the W-O-F it's my file ;/ 20:13:43 maybe by putting a (print *trace-output*) and a (print *standard-output*) into the file that i'm compiling 20:13:44 Sounds half-reasonable to me, although I'd worry about tracing implementation-internal things, as that can often break horribly. 20:14:24 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:15 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 20:15:23 H4ns: I did that. 20:15:39 I had (print *trace-output* *standard-output*) in trace-print... 20:15:50 and it said the correct file stream. 20:16:48 hmmm, now I bound *standard-output*, too - and that did work. 20:16:52 strange things happen .... 20:17:51 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:11 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-10-69.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:03 flip214: it could be that ecl's trace does not write to *trace-output* as it should. 20:21:15 but instead to *standard-output* or something similar 20:21:48 -!- ggole [~ggole@220-253-138-224.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:23:08 -!- patrick85 [~patrick85@37-5-232-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:23:48 Xach: do you think this could have made (should have made?) a difference? https://sourceforge.net/p/ecls/ecl/ci/4c91aa1f1b1d931dc4aa491c9947adb1c7cf780c/ 20:27:01 flip214: no 20:27:53 right... 20:33:08 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-157.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:36 frito [~androirc@cpc15-sotn8-2-0-cust161.15-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:00 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:37:55 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 20:37:59 rockymadden [~rockymadd@unaffiliated/rockymadden] has joined #lisp 20:38:18 zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a003:f15b:db1c:1192:b1f9] has joined #lisp 20:38:49 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:08 rvchangue_ [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-007-207.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:16 -!- rvchangue_ is now known as rvchangue 20:39:17 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-007-207.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:39:17 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 20:39:48 -!- Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:40:29 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70-91-168-190-BusName-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:41:34 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:2f10:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:40 -!- frito [~androirc@cpc15-sotn8-2-0-cust161.15-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:46 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:44:53 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-233-226-189-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:45:23 hello, I am back 20:45:37 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:45:47 I was thinking, I really want to do some lisp coding over the summer, but also want to do google summer of code 20:46:12 does anyone know of any companies that would be a good match for this? 20:46:27 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:44 cheryllium: sbcl is part of the google summer of code 20:46:54 Do you read planet lisp? I think there are some details there. 20:47:02 awesome, will check it out now! 20:47:06 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:07 I've never done gsoc before 20:47:08 I don't know if other lisp companies are doing anything with it 20:47:19 hopefully I can make a good enough application for it :/ 20:50:23 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 20:51:32 Xach: When are you going to make the latest slime available with Quicklisp? 20:52:32 Poenikatu: In the march release. I hope to do that this weekend. 20:52:47 Excellent! Good news 20:53:36 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:53:48 -!- Trenif [~Lefeni@c-7149e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:54:12 Trenif [~Lefeni@c-7149e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:55:29 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:40 sdemarre [~serge@112.84-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:59:28 ndrei [~avo@37.161.157.147] has joined #lisp 21:01:58 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:05:28 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 21:06:19 Do you need something in particular that is in the new slime? 21:07:22 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 21:07:32 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:41 *drewc* has a t-shirt from 2008 where he was a "mentor" for GSoC for CL ... that is all that can be remembered 21:10:03 http://www.sbcl.org/gsoc2014/ideas/ I'm looking at these project ideas 21:10:55 I probably would want to do one of the Section 1 ideas, but I don't know which would be the most useful. 21:12:10 -!- nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 21:13:37 those are ideas, you're always allowed to propose your own, especially if you discuss it with the prospective mentors beforehand 21:13:44 Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:00 a good inroad into the REPL could be made in 2 months, I believe 21:14:34 xani [~user@178.183.147.143.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 21:14:38 -!- ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:45 it'd be probably ~80%, but those would be the 80% that translate to sandboxing CL, which has always lacked someone sitting down and just going through all the issues that needs to have solved 21:15:18 no one is in #sbcl except for nyef 21:15:21 a librarified CL sandbox implementation would be massively useful for all kinds of things 21:15:51 mathrick: except that it couldn't be called CL? 21:15:53 it comes up regularly in here and every time the result is "but nobody has invested the couple months work needed to make it work" 21:16:00 ehu: eh? Why not? 21:16:06 I think I'm going to blame CL here... for feeling so much pain when writing C code nowadays 21:16:12 because it can't support functions that are in the standard. 21:16:18 dim: it does feel awful :) 21:16:26 ehu: soooo? It's a sandbox 21:16:35 so... it's not called CL. 21:16:36 sandboxes are by definition limited 21:16:44 ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:16:55 you can call it Lisp. 21:17:01 mathrick: all the mode when having to read files and parse their contents... 21:17:05 more 21:17:12 but there are other lisps that already do support scenarios like these. 21:17:13 ehu: if it does everything I want to do in CL, or everything I want to do in a sandbox, then it's close enough and useful 21:17:24 and it'd be a project *in* CL, useful to the CL world 21:17:41 silly nitpicking over whether it'd be CL is even sillier than my standard nitpicking 21:17:44 parenscript? 21:17:54 why not use that? 21:18:00 for? 21:18:10 or a sandboxed cl-lookalike. 21:18:12 parenscript is not a CL sandbox, it's a CL-to-JS compiler 21:18:33 it'll run in a highly sandboxed environment. 21:18:40 "you can use X, where X needs Y weeks of work before it actually serves as a sandbox" is useless 21:19:33 "you can use X but you need to invest Y weeks to completely cripple it, yet still be able to call it X" is useless as well. 21:19:39 ehu: I have no idea what your objection actually is supposed to be or what it serves, so I have no further interest in arguing it 21:19:54 hey guys, so this project's prerequisite is "Basic understanding of shared-memory concurrency" 21:20:02 cheryllium: back to the matter at hand, it seems to me the REPL would be a good size project 21:20:09 is that something I can get an understanding of in 6 days? 21:20:21 mathrick: for gsoc? browser-based sbcl repl? 21:20:24 yes 21:20:34 hmm, that's very different from the ideas listed on the page 21:20:41 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@98.255.30.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:20:51 I personally think it'd be a very good thing to have, and a librarified sandbox would be massively useful to very many things, as I said 21:21:04 cheryllium: those are just ideas 21:21:07 they're not binding 21:21:14 these are some very well written proposals 21:21:23 if you can get someone to mentor you, you can go with whatever you want 21:21:28 a browser-based repl doesn't seem to have much to do with sbcl itself 21:21:47 I wouldn't be contributing to sbcl 21:22:08 it doesn't seem as impactful as the ideas on this page, which involve things like optimizing the compiler or adding new features 21:22:09 cheryllium: a sandbox would be all kinds of invaluable for having CL as the scripting glue in XYZ apps 21:22:28 when you don't necessarily want to expose *all* of CL to the "script" layer 21:22:28 hmm, I suppose I will email them then 21:22:45 pnpuff [~l@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 21:22:49 cheryllium: it's a very concrete effort that'd do a lot of good to many people 21:23:01 1) REPL itself would make it much easier to try CL out. It counts 21:23:23 2) the sandbox would be extremely useful in all sorts of places that aren't a browser-based REPL 21:24:02 scripting glue, IRC bots, other REPL environments, hell, even verified binaries if you really wanted to do that 21:24:44 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:24:50 -!- pnpuff [~l@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 21:25:08 plugins are useful, and being able to contain your plugins to a well-defined subset of the language is very, very useful 21:25:17 cheryllium: the ideas on the page make a lot more sense to me. 21:25:34 ehu that is what I am thinking 21:25:47 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 21:25:47 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:25:53 I'd like to do 1.6 - improving the thread safety of the object system 21:25:57 ignore ehu, his understanding of the idea of sandbox is broken, so obviously it won't make sense 21:26:10 cheryllium: that is actually a tricky project 21:26:11 mathrick, that isn't a great rebuttal. 21:26:12 mathrick: the idea of the sandbox isn't new. 21:26:50 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 21:26:51 a secure sandbox environment is not a proper gsoc project 21:26:58 cheryllium: I can't help if someone just tries to object to a sandbox by saying "but it wouldn't be ALL of CL" 21:27:06 it wouldn't be, that's the point 21:27:27 it'd still make a damn useful library that's generally applicable in many areas 21:27:31 and very much CL 21:27:51 do you think it's possible to get a basic understanding of shared-memory concurrency in a few weeks? 21:27:53 keyword: basic 21:28:17 mathrick: it'll simply not be CL. that's my point. oh. btw, you don't actually need to implement to have a CL compliant implementation of anything: you only need to have documentation claiming compliance and documenting the deviations. 21:28:36 cheryllium: depends, if you've never done that, then I wouldn't recommend you start by trying to fix SBCL's object system's thread safety 21:28:38 mathrick: so, you can call anything CL. 21:28:46 mathrick: but it won't be useful. 21:28:54 pnpuff [~l@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 21:29:12 it's a difficult area many people have not done much with because it's a lot of hard work and requires a fairly good grasp of the entirety of the system to decide what to do instead of giant locks 21:29:50 :/ 21:29:59 I just wish I could find something that fits my skill level 21:30:07 ehu: that is a useless argument. Most CL implementations have deviations, which doesn't make them not useful in the slightest 21:30:47 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:31:06 mathrick: none of them is sandboxed. 21:31:17 and what the hell does that have to do with anything? 21:31:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:26 a sandbox would be super-useful for many people, and it'd be a distinctly CL project because it would implement a *CL* sandbox. Cutting out some very rarely-used, but exploitable parts wouldn't diminish the *actual* usefulness of the resulting thing 21:31:43 yes, you wouldn't be able to do some extremely shady things with run-time symbol lookup 21:31:47 yo 21:31:54 almost no code ever does, and it's a good thing 21:33:25 mathrick I appreciate your support but please calm down 21:33:35 mathrick: how would you go about programming such a thing? 21:33:38 -!- ndrei [~avo@37.161.157.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:33:41 cheryllium: I seriously think a sandbox would be a reasonably-sized project, and it'd give you a really good understanding of ins and outs of the language. Just because ehu decided to be a grump full of stop energy shouldn't discourage you 21:33:55 mathrick: how would you read your sources into such an implementation? 21:34:07 prxq: survey the language, find all the places that need to be limited or removed 21:34:11 I will come up with some other thoughts, about other project ideas, and email sbcl dev with them, including the sandbox idea 21:34:16 I'll see what sbcl dev thinks about it 21:34:18 that includes things like MAKE-SYMBOL, FIND-PACKAGE, etc. 21:34:55 -!- pnpuff [~l@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 21:34:55 ehu: that's one of the issues to be solved. pjb has implemented a compliant reader 21:35:00 I'd start there probably 21:35:09 without symbol lookup? 21:35:13 because built-in reader cannot be limited 21:35:20 ehu: ? 21:35:32 mathrick: exactly. 21:35:39 it can be hooked into, that's why it was implemented 21:35:42 cheryllium: getting feedback from the sbcl devs seems your best bet for a next step. 21:35:54 because built-in reader cannot be limited or hooked into 21:36:00 so you have to implement your own 21:36:07 fortunately, pjb has done so already 21:36:18 so the big chunk of work is done 21:36:25 the projects on the project ideas page sound almost too hard for me 21:36:37 are there any that would be approachable from a college freshman's point of view? 21:37:03 ehu: I don't see what's so magical about it. It needs work, that's what everyone, including me, has been saying from the beginning 21:37:11 that's why it'd be useful to have someone DO that work 21:37:34 *prxq* can see the use of such a sandbox 21:37:41 because it's a sizeable chunk of work, and usually too much as yak-shaving for whatever primary purpose people have 21:37:57 prxq: I can see the use for a Lisp sandbox, but I can't see how you can still call it CL. 21:37:59 how about taking some common libs and just allowing the symbols they use? 21:37:59 but if you can get it into GSoC, then that work will be paid for 21:38:18 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38:36 ehu: just because it cuts obscure corners and is only 99.5% compliant doesn't make it not CL for practical purposes 21:38:42 ehu: ok, but what would be the problem with that? 21:38:44 mathrick: there's a project from the 80s. it's called CL0. 21:38:51 it can very well *have* FIND-PACKAGE and MAKE-SYMBOL 21:39:11 it just needs having its own implementation which makes sure you cannot find unsafe symbols and packages 21:39:13 can someone answer my question please... 21:39:19 they implemented a CL dialect that can be used on Psion computers. 21:39:35 cheryllium: I already did? I say go for the REPL / sandbox 21:39:36 or at least, that was the idea. 21:39:40 why do it again? 21:39:45 joneshf-work [~joneshf@167.222-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:51 ehu: can I use it today for my IRC bot? 21:39:56 if not, there's your answer 21:40:03 my question was if any ideas on the project page were approachable 21:40:08 i can see how an irc bot is important! 21:40:13 lol 21:40:34 "it has been done, except you will need to do an unspecified amount of work extra before it will be good for anything" means it hasn't been done 21:40:57 H4ns: also plugins, scripting, other kinds of safe interpreters 21:40:59 -!- xani [~user@178.183.147.143.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:41:08 why wouldn't you port an existing CL reader and tweak it? 21:41:23 mathrick: my irc bot has been running for years on an unsecured sbcl. 21:41:24 whartung: fortunately, pjb has done so already 21:41:31 ehu: good for you 21:41:40 it doesn't make a sandbox less useful 21:42:05 mathrick: no. but it doesn't make it a prerequisite to run an irc bot. 21:42:06 any of these seem doable for a college freshman? http://www.sbcl.org/gsoc2014/ideas/ 21:42:15 cheryllium: many of thes things are, but can be tedious 21:42:18 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:3cf9:26b8:4488:5688] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:21 I think you guys should stop arguing about the sandbox 21:42:30 cheryllium: hey, irc bots! 21:42:30 ehu: except for when you want to have the bot also have an eval, which is not exactly unheard of in programming channels 21:42:36 prxq: which ones would be doable for someone without experience 21:42:42 none of the things you said make any case for why it'd be less desirable to have a working, packaged sandbox implementation 21:42:46 argue about the sand ?! 21:42:48 lol 21:42:49 gmcastil` [~user@97-124-168-220.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:52 cheryllium: let them. They are grown up. Or at least according to their birth certificates 21:42:54 because I have never worked with low-level things like a compiler before 21:42:56 vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-6.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 21:43:02 mathrick: if it is really important to you, why not run the thing in a virtual machine? 21:43:26 -!- nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:29 prxq but I'm trying to actually get some useful discussion about other projects... the sandbox argument is going nowhere 21:43:29 H4ns, ehu: what's the point of giving mathrick such a hard time? 21:43:32 xani [~user@178.183.146.1.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 21:43:39 prxq: he's pressing so hard. 21:43:40 cheryllium: you don't own the channel 21:43:48 that's true 21:43:50 H4ns: because then you just change it into an equally hard problem of "how do I detect that my VM broke and needs to be rebuilt?". Plus I don't see how a VM solves the question of plugins in any way 21:44:01 that's a fair point 21:44:10 cheryllium: 1 min 21:44:30 -!- Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:44:32 mathrick: it doesn't, but people will argue because "perfect thing" doesn't have feature so feature is wrong .. but, the short answer is, if you want a sandboxed CL, you need to make a new CL 21:44:49 H4ns: why do you care so much about NOT having a sandbox? 21:44:50 or run it in a VM 21:44:51 oGMo: which will not be cl. 21:44:56 H4ns: bzzt 21:45:02 mathrick: i don't care so much, i just like the talk 21:45:06 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:15 having a reader that can run in a restricted environment can be a good thing. 21:45:26 prxq: what H4ns says and he's going nowhere with his answers to cheryllium either. his answers so far haven't exactly taken cheryllium anywhere. 21:45:27 then again, I haven't heard a good argument that'd in any way show a sandbox is not needed or useful 21:45:36 although if you can make a restricted JVM, ABCL might already work for you, but i don't know 21:46:00 I say "I'd like to do X, Y, or Z, but they need a working sandbox first", and your answer is "don't do any of X, Y or Z then" 21:46:07 that is not a constructive answer 21:46:12 assuming "sandbox the VM" is enough, and not "sandbox part of the running VM" 21:46:16 mathrick: i don't believe in running untrusted code written in cl in a safe environment is feasible. we just don't have enough engineering resources to make that happen. 21:46:18 mathrick: yeah tell me, i've had this discussion a few times heh 21:46:25 cheryllium: what is your field of study? 21:46:33 mathrick: no. you said "someone else needs to do X, Y or Z, so *i* have my nice thing" 21:46:37 computer science. I have not yet specialized, I'm in my first year. 21:46:43 mathrick: and by telling a young person that they could make that happen, you're telling them a lie. in the end, the result will be just not useful. 21:47:00 H4ns: and I don't think it's fundamentally impossible if you prepare your environment properly. It needs elbow grease, but is not philosophically impossible in any way 21:47:02 mathrick: it is sad, it is not motivating, but it is true. 21:47:04 cheryllium: do you like maths? Then the GMP thing is probably interesting 21:47:18 mathrick: i'm interested in solutions, not "philosophical possibilities" 21:47:21 *drewc* thinks that his CCL that runs on his beaglebone black is sandboxed enough ... the box is plastic and wraps a PCB, so not sand at all... but sandy enough. 21:47:21 prxq: I do like math, though in #sbcl I was told the GMP thing was basically done already 21:47:31 meh 21:47:33 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:47:54 sellout- [~Adium@70-91-168-190-BusName-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:55 mathrick: mind you, you're asking a undergraduate to create a useful subset of cl and implement it in cl. are you really prepared to use that dialect? 21:48:07 you need to implement your reader (done, thanks to pjb), survey the language to cut out the unsafe parts and replace them with validating equivalents, then provide a COMMON-LISP package that has all those things substituted 21:48:12 -!- sdemarre [~serge@112.84-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:48:22 prxq I was told "SB-GMP is pretty much done" 21:48:46 -!- gmcastil` [~user@97-124-168-220.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:47 H4ns: yes, I think it's a perfectly doable project with proper guidance, which is built into GSoC 21:48:47 cheryllium: so much for that, then. 21:48:50 ideally I would work on something that would truly contribute to the language, you know what I mean? 21:49:01 what do you think of the random number generator idea? 21:49:01 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 21:49:06 cheryllium: some of the hashing/optimization/etc stuff is probably doable, if you focus on one of them, assuming you have some idea of CL 21:49:09 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.103.233] has joined #lisp 21:49:10 the only thing you need to lock down in a reader is access to the parent environment, and any global/dynamic variables within that "leak" in to the jail. Other than that, what other limitations do you need for a reader? (besides someone trying to allocate all of the memory or run infinite loops...) 21:49:38 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:49:44 da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:49:52 right. what about endless loops? 21:49:54 bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has joined #lisp 21:49:55 cheryllium: looks doable. 21:49:59 in any of the cases you will be reading and trying to understand lots of code, which will also teach you a lot of CL, but assuming you're not _completely_ new 21:50:06 H4ns: what _about_ endless loops? 21:50:20 they go on forever 21:50:25 :-) 21:50:27 H4ns: you have a sandboxed VM with CPU that's on quota, you don't care, and you can kill and restart the VM if it exceeds 21:50:29 I do meet the prereq for 2.1, and that seems like it would be a nice contribution 21:50:31 oGMo: how would that be dealt with in a "portable cl sandboox foobar thing"? 21:50:32 H4ns: the problem with doing a working sandbox is that you need to go through ALL of CL, and that's not a thing you can just do in a weekend and call it a day. That's the main thing that has kept people away, not that it's unimaginable to do in principle 21:50:40 H4ns: or did you not understand what "sandbox" entails? :p 21:50:42 oGMo: of course. with a virtual machine, that is very easy. 21:50:43 that's a threading/process issue. That's deeper in the CL runtime than something like a jailed reader. OUt of scope, I'd say 21:50:57 -!- Acherontius [~user@204.116.186.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:00 cheryllium: 'basic number theory'? 21:51:16 how useful is a sandbox that can be killed by (loop)? 21:51:22 prxq: basically, not much of a prereq 21:51:26 mathrick: you can't do it at the language level 21:51:28 cheryllium: then that's certainly doable. I presume you can learn the maths on the fly, it's quite decent. 21:51:33 H4ns: it's not easy, because "how do I tell my VM broke, in what way, and how do I get it back in order" is at least as hard a problem as a sandbox 21:51:41 oGMo: can't do what? 21:51:48 mathrick: sandbox the language 21:51:51 it's just a poor approach 21:52:00 mathrick: not at all. you allocate n seconds of cpu quota, and if that expires, you just restart the vm from a known state 21:52:03 I am fairly good with maths, and have done some difficult discrete/number theory stuff last semester (along with sets and graphs) 21:52:14 ah and combinatorics. was a fun semester. 21:52:20 you can _easily_ define quotas and monitor for lockup with a decent sandbox VM, so that's easy for any "untrust-code" purpose 21:52:22 oGMo: not at all. It's the only one in many cases 21:52:32 cheryllium: ok, then these are certainly feasible and interesting projects. 21:52:35 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.20.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:53:09 I don't think endless loops are necessarily within the scope of a sandbox, btw. The basic idea behind a sandbox is that it cannot do irreversible harm 21:53:23 cheryllium: assuming you can read code and successfully grok it, just pick something that doesn't sound particularly ridiculous ("improving thread-safety of the object system") and go 21:53:25 a loop is very easy to deal with if you have it in a separate thread 21:53:29 just kill the thread 21:53:30 done 21:53:51 mathrick: just kill the thread, right 21:54:03 mathrick: i mean, you do know what this entails in terms of locks held? 21:54:04 oGMo: "improving thread-safety of the object system" sounds like one of the most interesting and useful projects here... I wish it were within my skill level 21:54:05 anything you can do with a VM can be equally done with a plain process 21:54:09 Mathieu: so each loop gets a thread? 21:54:16 -!- da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:54:21 I mean mathrick :-) 21:54:29 no, each jailed reader gets it own thread. 21:54:35 yeah 21:54:39 cheryllium: it would be but at a glance it looks like it has ridiculous and undefined scope hehe 21:54:40 mathrick: now you tell me that the sandbox has no locks. but how about the run time, does it run without locks, too? 21:54:48 you guys are mixing up threads with processes. 21:54:55 "fix PCL" would probably be harder than "port SBCL to something" 21:54:57 -!- zajn [~zajn@2607:f140:400:a003:f15b:db1c:1192:b1f9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:33 H4ns: you can do many things. The easiest answer is "I don't care if it gets into a loop, it's a bug, not breach" 21:55:50 oGMo: Having tried the "port SBCL to something" schtick already, for a couple of values of "something", I'm not convinced. 21:55:59 if I write a plugin and it locks up the app, but hasn't deleted all my files, then the sandbox still did its job 21:56:00 mathrick: if you think that you don't fully understand the nature of the problem, but good luck with that <- wrong channel 21:56:00 mathrick: what is the point of a sandbox if it can only run trusted code? 21:56:02 the problem is beyond the reader. I think creating a reader environment that's reasonably isolated is not overly difficult, and would be pretty portable. But a jailed reader alone can not protect the overall environment from a hostile party. That party can spin up a gazillion threads, saturate the CPU, allocate all of the memory, fill up the disk drive, etc. 21:56:10 THAT is more of a deeper CL runtime issue. 21:56:19 and specially NOT portable 21:56:33 H4ns: there's a huge span between "completely trusted to be 100% correct" and "completely untrusted" 21:56:38 H4ns: so no sandbox ever is useful? Is that your point? 21:56:45 a span that's very useful to have in real life 21:56:46 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:56:52 mathrick: there is no way to restrict it at the language level, at least not and have it remain CL 21:57:22 prxq: no, my point is that a sandboxed cl is not possible, and a sandboxed cl subset that is somewhat useful is not a task for a apprentice programmer 21:57:28 oGMo: I still don't know how you define "it" exactly 21:57:51 prxq: why would you think that any arbitrary VM can break free of its sandbox? 21:57:57 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@ip196-211.wireless.lu.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:58:14 and a sandbox that can't safely recover from an endless loop is like, erm, well, not a sandbox 21:58:16 if you take endless loops to be a breach of the sandbox, then no. But there are very many practical situations where you can be perfectly happy to deal with those without willing to deal with EVERYTHING some arbitrary code might do 21:58:22 oGMo: well, I don't think that 21:58:22 H4ns: it totes is 21:58:23 mathrick: do you want a sandbox that yo can run untrusted code, or do you want some checks here and there to make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot? there is a _huge_ difference 21:58:42 There could be an implementation of a CL that had suppert for CL jails, but the problem is outsie the scope of CL. 21:58:49 oGMo: if I can restart the VM as H4ns says, then I can just as much restart my process 21:59:04 and it will be MUCH easier if I don't have to rebuild the partition in the process 21:59:24 a limited CL Jail reader could be real useful 21:59:27 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:30 and, again, a lot of the time it's very practical to say "yes, a bug might end up locking up the app, but we know it won't eat your data" 21:59:37 mathrick: if you want the latter, you can just make an API for "unsafe" stuff .. if you want untrusted code, any CL with reader access (i.e., "any CL") can access any other part, and can't reasonably be restricted 21:59:41 I don't care that YOU don't think it's "real" CL 21:59:45 it's still practical 22:00:16 mathrick: well you may not even need a machine VM and partition etc, just a decent VM ... even some JVMs + ABCL may be able to give you that 22:00:28 oGMo: not if you judiciously restrict those parts of the reader. That's why you start by reimplementing the reader 22:00:40 because you're right, the built-in CL reader cannot be reasonably contained 22:00:47 No, oGMo, the CL Reader is "safe", it's the ENVIRONMENT that is exposed. Running a CL reader WITHIN a restricted environment is (mostly) safe (out side of resource exhaustion DoS attacks) 22:00:57 mathrick: i understand. you want a cl dialect that can be sandboxed. i agress that such a thing can be implemented. it will probably need to be an interpreter to be portable, and it won't be cl, and i'd also say that it is not a task for an undergraduate, at least if you want it to be cl-like enough to see use beyond the mentor and the implementor 22:01:06 whartung: that's just one example :p 22:01:08 cheryllium: in terms of 'truly contributing to the language' - I think few of them are massively high in terms of priority. They are interesting and useful, but not revolutionary. Fixing PCL (the object system) is a pretty huge undertaking. 22:01:14 mathrick: using a JVM with the right security settings, you can restrict the VM; no need to restrict just the reader. 22:01:37 H4ns: not really, it will need to be compiled in an environment where unsafe parts of COMMON-LISP are replaced with safe variants 22:01:47 there's nothing that requires interpreters at any point 22:01:49 mathrick: there are many such things though, and by the time you rewrite them all to be "safe", you might as well just use a safe VM with a normal CL 22:01:52 no ehu, I can kill any locked down JVM. I may not be able to "breach" it, but I can kill it you let my code in to it. 22:01:55 validation, yes, interpreters, not at all 22:01:59 cheryllium: otoh, I don't think it is necessary to finish these things. Progress others can build uppon would be very useful already 22:02:32 cheryllium: a good parallel GC would fit into that category, but GCs are hairy 22:02:48 GCs frighten me, and I have not fomally learned about them yet, so I don't trust myself. 22:03:02 GCs are easy. Good ones are hard. 22:03:03 mathrick: well that's where what whartung said comes into play .. you shouldn't care about restricting the language, ti's not the _goal_ .. safe execution is. if you have a restricted VM, you're done 22:03:30 oGMo: except that "has my VM been compromised?" is equally hard a problem 22:03:31 whartung: making good things in general is hard... if you don't care about the quality, making anything is easy. 22:03:36 you replaced one hard problem with another 22:03:41 congratulations! 22:03:46 cheryllium: at some point grab the GC book(s) by Richard Jones, they're pretty good survey 22:03:54 mathrick: not really 22:03:55 extremely useful, especially in all the places where I can't even plug a VM in 22:03:57 cheryllium: the RNG and other maths things are pretty nice projects. It will get you more than a foot in the door. 22:04:08 not to mention the giant overhead a VM has compared to just having a sandbox 22:04:11 you can understand the fundamental of a GC and implement one, without having to write a top tier one. Crummy GCs are useful in the right context 22:04:12 also, it's sortof somebody else's problem 22:04:18 mathrick: there is no "just a sandbox" 22:04:52 yes there is. Give me an example of code that can break outside of what I want to allow it to do when I use reimplemented reader 22:05:02 there can be just a pile of sand, but there is either a box, or not a box, and it doesn't really matter what kind of sand it has 22:05:19 cheryllium: something worth asking nyef about would be submatrix handling a la modern fortran 22:05:40 ... I don't know anything about modern fortran. 22:05:43 I don't care if it spins forever, I want to make sure that no matter what happens, it won't delete my files 22:05:59 the jailed reader ponders in his sandbox - do I get killed if I grab this thread 22:06:01 mathrick: any code that interns a symbol, or uses funcall 22:06:04 show me the code that can break out and you cannot possibly fortify it no matter what 22:06:20 oGMo: and why's that exactly? 22:06:26 mathrick: it's not a matter of "cannot fortify no matter what", it's a matter of "so many ways to break out you cannot plug them all" 22:06:28 -!- zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:06:32 INTERN would obviously be replaced 22:06:41 I do have a scheme in mind for hacking up SBCL arrays to allow arbitrary slicing (including switching the order of indexes during displacement). 22:06:45 how is funcall dangerous though? 22:06:59 of course once you start to replace intern and funcall, you severely restrict ordinary code 22:07:09 nyef: ...that's what I meant 22:07:09 it amounts to eval ? 22:07:14 lol 22:07:16 symbols are interned in to packages. You need only control the packages that the sandbox has access too 22:07:19 oleo: exactly heh 22:07:24 hahaha 22:07:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:07:35 as soon as you can call an arbitrary function, you can regain access to anything "dangerous" 22:08:01 oGMo: you can make INTERN that only allows you to intern in approved packages, it's not that hard and would be the exact same thing as making sure your reader only does so, so it'd in practice reduce to solving the same problem in the same spot 22:08:05 CL0.ps is worth a read then..... 22:08:09 whartung: the packages, and specific functions, there's a lot of stuff in COMMON-LISP you don't want untrusted code calling .. 22:08:09 No, you can't. You only have access to your environment. You can only make changes to your environment. That environment is local to the sandbox. 22:08:11 oGMo: again, example 22:08:21 mathrick: so, is COMMON-LISP approved? 22:08:29 a reimplemented one 22:08:32 you can control the package environment that a read has access too. 22:08:36 with the dangerous functions replaced 22:08:42 -!- mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has quit [Quit: mgodshall] 22:08:51 oGMo: so if I can call CL:+, I can gain access to anything? 22:08:55 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 22:08:57 please demonstrate 22:09:12 mathrick: possibly, how's the debugger and what can i get if i (+ 'a 'b)? 22:09:22 anyway gotta run pick someone up, bbl 22:09:36 debugger can be disabled 22:09:37 oGMo: Clearly, (+ 'a 'b) returns the symbol AB. d-: 22:09:46 cheryllium: that arbitrary slicing nyef mentions is what I meant. That would be pretty useful and powerful. No idea how much work it is, though 22:09:49 nyef: heh 22:10:54 prxq: what does arbitrary slicing mean? 22:11:16 oGMo: again, I know there are many spots you need to plug in CL to make it actually sandboxed, but that is only what makes it more than a weekend project. There's nothing impossible given two months of work 22:11:25 cheryllium: In #sbcl, I mentioned "weekend hack". It'd probably take you longer, but probably less than a month. 22:11:50 nyef, which project was this? arbitrary slicing? what does this mean? 22:12:10 is this like slice notation in python? 22:12:19 nyef: could it make it possible to go by column order for example? 22:12:33 Yeah, roughly like slice notation in that-other-python, at least semantically. 22:12:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13:12 cheryllium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Array_slicing 22:13:12 mathrick: Not necessarily with a single index ala ROW-MAJOR-AREF, but it would allow you to create a displaced array that reverses the order of the indexes. 22:14:42 nyef: more flexibility would be nice, I remember running headlong into how limited displaced arrays are on a couple occasions 22:14:53 so that's 6.1 in the ideas index? 22:15:09 Yeah, that'd be 6.1 22:15:55 The basic angle is to add a "stride" to each dimension in the array header, and to increase the header size to include all of the dimensions. 22:16:16 right 22:16:45 you want essentially to encode coefficients of some kind of mapping function between array indices and the underlying storage vector 22:16:57 and then you want that to be faster than molasses 22:17:14 That latter would be the part that might take longer than a weekend. 22:17:20 yeah. Should be a fun project 22:19:13 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:19:59 When it's done, I'd like to incorporate it into Antik. 22:20:22 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:57 -!- yano [~yano@freenode/staff/yano] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:22:41 yano [~yano@freenode/staff/yano] has joined #lisp 22:23:13 I found a patch to sbcl's reader to use hash-tables for #= and ## resolution (http://marc.info/?l=sbcl-devel&m=118219422006130) and applied it to my own code. It works great and is much faster when reading very large s-expressions. It doesn't seem to have made it into SBCL's codebase though. 22:24:00 I'm using the Lisp reader to serialize/deserialize large data structures and the alist implementation of ## and #= were killing me. 22:25:43 Why hashtable and not vector? Aren't the numbers sequential? 22:25:57 I guess people don't typically use the reader to read very large s-expressions - like 14MB large? 22:26:39 Yes, I suspect people do not normally do that with large circular structures. 22:26:54 foom: It's not just the numbers, you need to replace #xxx# with a GENSYM and then replace each GENSYM with an object. 22:27:46 Well, it works just fine when you apply the patch. Load times go from minutes to tens of seconds. 22:28:07 is there a launchpad bug for it? 22:28:26 I mean, I probably have that tagged in my sbcl-devel buffer, but I have messages going back to 2003 22:28:49 Krystof: I don't know what a "launchpad bug" is - so I couldn't say. 22:28:49 knob [~knob@66-50-179-148.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:58 launchpad is where sbcl's bug tracker lives 22:29:11 https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bugs 22:29:17 Ah, my bug tracker lives between my ears. 22:30:39 we tried that 22:30:41 it didn't work so well 22:31:00 ok, I agree with foom that the two tables which are indexed by integers should be vectors 22:31:10 I find the thing between my ears has bugs of its own 22:31:33 What tickled me about this is I steal all my Common Lisp code from ECL which steals it from older Lisp implementations. I can grab a patch from 2007 and hand apply it to my code and it just works. 22:33:10 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:2f10:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 22:33:36 -!- yano [~yano@freenode/staff/yano] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:58 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:11 ndrei [~avo@37.160.121.188] has joined #lisp 22:39:11 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:41 drmeister: intraear cavity bugtracking only works if you never need to have more than two items and don't count on them being preserved with any fidelity past the lunchtime 22:42:16 I used to think I could remember my bugs 22:42:19 I was wrong 22:42:25 yano [~yano@freenode/staff/yano] has joined #lisp 22:42:40 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 22:43:37 Krystof: the launchpad project is only used for bugtracking, and has nothing to do with where the code lives, right? 22:44:08 Hrm. 34 "easy" bugs in the tracker. 22:44:59 -!- ndrei [~avo@37.160.121.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:45:47 heh .. 10+ years coding in CL full time, and I just now did the (loop ... :nconc) rather than (loop ... :append) mistake, and kept wondering why it was taking infinite time. 22:47:27 it even starts with #\N ... so why I did not think about it mutilating my list, I do not know. That is a proper battle scar... I like it! 22:47:36 ndrei [~avo@37.160.121.188] has joined #lisp 22:47:48 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:32 Heh. I just did the (loop for whatever in #1=(nil t t t . #1#) ...) mistake earlier today. (Hint: it would have worked if I hadn't forgotten to quote the infinite list.) 22:48:59 And it at least gives useful diagnostics if it's NOT an infinite list. 22:50:21 -!- Validus [~Anonymous@cpc9-walt14-2-0-cust205.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:26 -!- cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.213.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:47 Validus [~Anonymous@cpc9-walt14-2-0-cust205.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:49 cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.213.55] has joined #lisp 22:52:12 Petit_Dejeuner_ [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:25 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:53:24 -!- Petit_Dejeuner [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:32 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 22:55:44 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 22:55:58 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:56:00 -!- cgore [~cgore@cgore.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:57:13 -!- ndrei [~avo@37.160.121.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:57:37 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-199-91.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:34 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-179-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:59:29 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:04 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 23:03:24 heh, it was not a problem processing the infinite list at all in your case, it just took a wee bit infinitely long to READ it :P 23:04:32 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:04:50 which is what this channel's blather was filled with earlier, is it not? I think I must be going cross-eyed.... 23:05:19 READing it is fine, the problem is compiling such an (invalid) function call. 23:05:54 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZZzZ] 23:06:16 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:06:33 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has joined #lisp 23:07:09 macroexpand hook line and sinker 23:08:38 <_death> wrt to cl-in-a-sandbox.. I wonder if people have heard of docker.. 23:09:23 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70-91-168-190-BusName-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:09:33 _death: yes we had 23:09:41 it's not a magic silver bullet 23:10:03 (also, falls under "containers" keyword) 23:10:04 <_death> it addresses several of the criticisms in the discussion above 23:12:03 which ones? I think I pretty much covered docker back around 1830 UTC today. So if you are talking about locking down the process instead of trying to fortify a lisp repl, I already suggested that :) 23:12:17 it's IMO the only way to do it sensibly with CL 23:13:33 <_death> my backlog reading doesn't extend that far 23:14:14 meanwhile I didn't want to wade through yet-another-limited-repl discussion :) 23:14:52 pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 23:16:40 *drewc* has many KVM's that simply boot the kernel then init SBCL ... it thinks the lvm partition is an HDD and i snapshot that partition when I want to read what that process has written ... beyond that, the REPL is quite fortified 23:17:40 of course, it is also not usable unless you are inside the fort and batten down the hatches ... 23:17:41 that works as well, though I'd probably add KSM to lower memory usage in such case 23:17:52 -!- zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-178-003-160-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:18:51 but the funny thing about the code it runs is that some of it was born in PAIP ... so most of the time it uses itself, 'artificially' 23:20:10 zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 23:20:28 in fact, I think minion has some of the same code! 23:21:00 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:22:18 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:24:28 woo! just ordered a laptop so now I can have an exclusively linux machine ^^ 23:24:29 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-179-148.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:29:11 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 23:30:29 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 23:35:48 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:51 -!- xani [~user@178.183.146.1.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:01 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:38:14 -!- Malice_ [~Malice@94-229-220-135.static.espol.com.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:41:25 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.89.69] has joined #lisp 23:50:08 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.22.11] has joined #lisp 23:50:38 da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 23:54:59 -!- da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:55:18 ejbs [~user@h82-117-106-93.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:03 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 23:56:22 Do you guys know of any libraries for Common Lisp that helps enforce things statically? Maybe ensuring that a generic function has a method specializing on a certain class or something like that. 00:01:46 I don't know about libraries, but I have considered writing test cases that assert that kind of thing. 00:03:34 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:05:30 -!- __prefect [~prefect@koln-4d0b587e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:06:16 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-251-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:06:59 nyef: Hm, yeah, alright. Maybe someone should bite the bullet and do it? 00:06:59 -!- harish_ [~harish@175.156.103.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:08:10 My plan is to implement functions for this as I find that I need them, and I have yet to find that I need them. 00:08:43 -!- Poenikatu [~kvirc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:09:54 My feeling is that I'm more likely to want to verify BEHAVIOR than mere existence of methods, and that if I'm verifying existence then I'm more likely to be working with a more application-specific control / data construct. 00:10:46 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:59 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas3-toronto02-1279545518.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:14:10 akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas3-toronto02-1279464442.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:14:19 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:2f10:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 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[~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:12:29 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-taavaiqdhjsmcglh] has joined #lisp 02:12:42 -!- ruzu [~quassel@unaffiliated/ruzu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:13:04 eigenlicht [~eigenlich@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:08 -!- eigenlicht [~eigenlich@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has quit [Changing host] 02:13:08 eigenlicht [~eigenlich@unaffiliated/eigenlicht] has joined #lisp 02:13:31 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 02:15:36 White_Flame: Right, but I want to be able to compile programs written in pure Common Lisp to be able to run in the browser without changes. 02:16:15 Hence, all lisp libraries become "something the general public can use", instead of just us lisp nerds, and vice versa. 02:16:30 yeah, but those would be a reasonable starting point 02:16:38 *DarkLinkXXXX* nods 02:17:04 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.127.200] has 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joined #lisp 03:12:01 wchun [~wchun@81-233-226-189-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 03:16:47 -!- davazp` [~user@177.Red-83-63-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:17:19 victor_lowther_ [sid17606@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session] has joined #lisp 03:20:23 oh darn, i think i may have to learn define-setf-expander 03:22:44 marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has joined #lisp 03:23:06 d-s-e isn't overly complex, really. 03:23:55 schoppenhauer [~schoppenh@host58-2.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 03:24:35 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-52.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 03:26:35 nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/session] has joined #lisp 03:26:51 copec [~copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 03:26:51 -!- copec [~copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:29:55 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:30:19 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 03:30:22 copec 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[~esalagaev@2a02:6b8:0:408:9598:f0eb:ede6:e639] has joined #lisp 08:09:13 adsisco [sid25204@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wounshlonsuumteb] has joined #lisp 08:11:20 arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.254] has joined #lisp 08:13:28 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:4c26:1753:3d5f:8f2e] has joined #lisp 08:13:52 francis_wolke [~user@c-76-102-198-18.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:15:04 macin [~macin@106.208.31.69] has joined #lisp 08:15:27 -!- Guest83377 is now known as mtd 08:15:57 -!- mtd is now known as Guest57003 08:17:46 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.212.234] has joined #lisp 08:17:47 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.212.234] has quit [Changing host] 08:17:47 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 08:18:20 I neet to find the intersection of two lists 08:18:50 macin: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_isec_.htm 08:19:00 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:19:31 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.212.234] has joined #lisp 08:19:31 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.212.234] has quit [Changing host] 08:19:31 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 08:20:23 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:38 I need the source 08:20:55 i need a pony 08:23:08 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:52 -!- Guest61072 [~Michael@c-69-138-234-99.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:23:52 Guest61072 [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 08:23:59 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:24:25 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:15 -!- Guest61072 is now known as aethaeryn 08:27:42 it's no good cheating on homework, macin. 08:28:42 doesn't that page actually give you the source too... 08:29:09 ie. example using it :) 08:29:18 and besides, a n^2 implementation is trivial 08:30:22 chu_ [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 08:30:23 there's always M-. if you really feel like plagiarizing 08:30:31 but you'd best be able to explain yourself 08:32:10 -!- nand1 [~user@se3x.mullvad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:58 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:34:20 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:44 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:38:28 -!- chu_ [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:39:41 Here's one approach to implementing intersection efficiently https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL/blob/master/Code/Cons-high/cons-high.lisp#L2892 . When you understand this, you will understand a lot about lists. 08:40:28 yacks [~py@122.179.102.149] has joined #lisp 08:41:37 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:41:37 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:2f10:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 08:41:54 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.212.234] has joined #lisp 08:41:54 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.212.234] has quit [Changing host] 08:41:55 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 08:42:49 or somewhat simpler (loop for x in list1 when (member x list2) collect x) 08:43:14 you can do it more efficiently by converting the lists to arrays, sorting them and then do a scan 08:43:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:44:34 is SICL an implementation of Common Lisp in Common Lisp?! 08:44:43 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-sogjdaszkahecquw] has joined #lisp 08:44:44 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-sogjdaszkahecquw] has quit [Changing host] 08:44:44 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:44:50 if i push plists into a list, what is the best way to index them so that pushing a plist cannot make a duplicate? i know this is the wrong data structure, but just curious of a good workaround 08:45:08 -!- w|t [~ok@198.23.243.157] has quit [Changing host] 08:45:08 w|t [~ok@unaffiliated/wt/x-8228070] has joined #lisp 08:45:24 mal_: using what ordering? 08:45:38 alexandria might have a plist-to-hash-table function 08:46:11 ggole: any ordering will do. lexicographic on the bits of the representation. 08:46:14 alexandria:plist-hash-table 08:46:30 thanks, i'll look into it 08:47:20 thanks 08:47:22 dim: sort of. The idea (one of the ideas) is to provide a layered implementation to make it easier to bootstrap your own CL from modest beginnings. 08:47:50 Unfortunately CL doesn't provide a lexicographic comparison primitive. 08:48:12 nice. do they document the operators you need to implement for the bootstrap? 08:48:26 nand1 [~user@se3x.mullvad.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:27 ggole: I was talking from the POV of the library implementor. 08:49:19 *ggole* nods 08:49:50 dim: much better explained in the Readme and the Specification and ELS Paper directories (: 08:50:02 hehe ok 08:50:51 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 08:52:13 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f68f92.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:53:29 -!- nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:53:58 nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:55 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [] 08:57:29 -!- Guest51106 is now known as attila_lendvai 08:57:59 -!- bulloLisp [~user@163.25.109.97] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:58:05 dim: im still unfamiliar with hash tables. could you provide an example? i have a list of plists with :name :address and :port. i want to ensure :name is always unique. 08:58:07 -!- attila_lendvai is now known as Guest76115 08:58:07 -!- Guest76115 [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has quit [Changing host] 08:58:07 Guest76115 [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:58:42 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:00:35 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.212.234] has joined #lisp 09:00:35 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.212.234] has quit [Changing host] 09:00:35 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 09:05:35 (if (find-if (lambda (entry-name) (name= entry-name name) :key [if necessary]) *list-of-plists*) [signal duplicate entry error] (push new-entry *list-of-plists*) ? 09:05:59 *splittist* notes irc is not an acceptable repl... 09:06:23 beingAwesome [~Thunderbi@106.78.237.188] has joined #lisp 09:06:51 eni [~eni@AMontsouris-551-1-29-215.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:07:20 -!- beingAwesome [~Thunderbi@106.78.237.188] has quit [Client Quit] 09:07:28 -!- cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.220.14] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 09:08:48 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.192.74] has left #lisp 09:10:17 splittist: pushnew? (Unless you need that error, I guess.) 09:10:39 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@193.Red-88-27-66.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:12:27 pushnew allows the same plist twice 09:12:30 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 09:13:08 besides im trying to check if a value of a particular key in any plist of the list exists 09:14:29 ggole: yes, if the error isn't necessary I guess pushnew with an appropriate :test would work (: 09:15:40 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:16:16 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:16:31 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:39 how would i write a test for that scenario? 09:21:36 First write a predicate that returns whether a plist contains a key, then (some (lambda (plist) (pred key plist)) list-of-plists) 09:24:00 (defun name= (entry1 entry2) (string-or-whatever= (getf entry1 :name) (getf entry2 :name)) ? (If that's how getf works) 09:24:09 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 09:24:22 stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has joined #lisp 09:24:24 MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:24:32 axion: (pushnew person people :key #'person-name :test #'name-comparator) 09:35:36 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-37-219-192.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:39:16 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@ip68-108-184-57.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 09:41:10 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:48 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:43:14 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 09:43:34 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:52 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:45:06 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:46:54 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Client Quit] 09:47:18 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 09:47:50 i got a test function to work, but i cant seem to get a key function to work 09:48:16 add^_ [~user@m176-70-197-33.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:48:25 i'm checking if the whole plist exists...need to extract the :name key somehow 09:52:48 -!- nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 09:53:58 Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 09:54:40 -!- harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-vxsusormgdsgkzez] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:55:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-208.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:01:25 axion: splittist's example combined the two, if your test is like that you don't need the key 10:02:30 CrazyEddy [~sandan@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has 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[Changing host] 10:58:07 r0b4 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 10:59:12 yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:34 -!- yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:59:34 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 10:59:58 -!- beingAwesome [~Thunderbi@106.66.238.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:04:49 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 11:05:49 -!- r0b4 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 11:06:07 r0b1 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 11:09:12 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:12:25 -!- harish_ [~harish@112.199.146.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:12:47 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:13:40 -!- aethaeryn is now known as aeth 11:17:49 i have a function that takes two args 11:18:08 the first arg is fixed 11:18:44 the second arg is contained in a list 11:18:56 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:19:08 i have to take one at a time 11:19:13 how ??? 11:19:48 (fun arg1 (arg2 arg3 ... argn)) 11:20:09 the function works like below 11:20:15 (fun arg1 arg2) 11:20:25 done 11:20:51 That's not one at a time. That's one. 11:22:00 A clue: look for things with map in the name. 11:22:55 :( 11:23:52 If that doesn't make you happy, look for things with CURRY in the name. 11:25:24 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:27:55 thanks 11:29:33 segv- [~mb@95-91-211-99-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:30:08 (reduce (lambda (x y) (print (list x y)) x) '(1 2 3) :initial-value 'a) => (A 1) (A 2) (A 3) 11:30:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:32:22 -!- xani [~user@178.183.148.36.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39:53 of course (loop for second-arg in '(1 2 3) do (function first-arg second-arg)) is easier 11:40:57 andreh [~andreh@189.27.4.212.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 11:42:33 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:42:39 -!- andreh [~andreh@189.27.4.212.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Client Quit] 11:43:04 davazp [~user@177.Red-83-63-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:58 therik [~therik@212.50.110.108] has joined #lisp 11:44:11 harish_ [~harish@175.156.125.137] has joined #lisp 11:46:22 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:43 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:16 -!- nand1 [~user@se3x.mullvad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:49:31 -!- nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:51:20 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:56 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:21 -!- Guest76115 [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:52:26 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: brb] 11:57:09 nand1 [~user@se1x.mullvad.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:57 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.126.2.74] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:58:23 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:59:58 -!- misv_ [~ms@c-b977e255.033-162-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:00:09 mathrick [~mathrick@94.126.2.74] has joined #lisp 12:01:23 misv [~ms@c-b977e255.033-162-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:02:06 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xdqzfqerxymqxvkw] has joined #lisp 12:03:34 MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:03:58 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 12:05:40 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:06:53 Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:09:37 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:09:51 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 12:10:24 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:11:01 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-11-120.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:13:05 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.121.205] has joined #lisp 12:15:16 can someone help me get the desired output in the comment here? http://paste.lisp.org/display/141530 12:15:19 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@193.136.164.199] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:23 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:16:56 BlankVerse [~pankajm@106.51.175.91] has joined #lisp 12:17:15 Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 12:18:25 axion: (rassoc "rig2" '((:NAME "rig2" :ADDRESS "192.168.0.3" :PORT 80) (:NAME "rig1" :ADDRESS "192.168.0.2" :PORT 80)) :key #'car :test #'equal) 12:19:44 rustico [~rustico@17-146-114-200.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 12:20:07 or (find-if (lambda (x) (equal (getf x :name) "rig2")) '((:ADDRESS "192.168.0.3" :NAME "rig2" :PORT 80))) 12:20:10 |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #lisp 12:20:33 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:22:23 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d7ff7.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:22:46 thanks stassats :) 12:27:25 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:56 Ilezay [~ilezaykha@182.186.105.76] has joined #lisp 12:28:17 hi 12:28:50 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:29:13 hi 12:29:22 -!- Ilezay [~ilezaykha@182.186.105.76] has left #lisp 12:30:16 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 12:34:22 seggy [~segmond@99.102.148.146] has joined #lisp 12:37:31 -!- segmond [~segmond@adsl-108-73-160-245.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:39:25 -!- ruzu [~quassel@cpe-72-179-33-98.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:39:25 ruzu [~quassel@unaffiliated/ruzu] has joined #lisp 12:43:38 -!- wheelsucker [~wheelsuck@ip68-105-66-161.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 12:46:18 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:43 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:46:53 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:26 -!- ruzu [~quassel@unaffiliated/ruzu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:55 ruzu [~quassel@cpe-72-179-33-98.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:29 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:56:22 -!- nand1 [~user@se1x.mullvad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:57:33 -!- eni [~eni@AMontsouris-551-1-29-215.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:53 Acherontius [~user@204.116.186.34] has joined #lisp 13:01:12 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-31-113.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:05:04 mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has joined #lisp 13:06:36 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:07:18 -!- misv [~ms@c-b977e255.033-162-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:08:30 misv [~ms@c-b977e255.033-162-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:11:12 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:13:40 Malice_ [~Malice@94-229-220-135.static.espol.com.pl] has joined #lisp 13:16:00 *Xach* feels the excitement of another day of lisp hacking!! 13:16:53 Arg I wish I could feel that, too! Another day of C# ahead for me 13:17:05 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.121.205] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 13:17:58 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:19:29 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:38 Acherontius: (defun gen-c#-if (test then &optional else) (insert "if(") (gen-c#-expr test) (insert "){\n") (gen-c#-stat then) (when else (insert "}else{\n") (gen-c#-stat else)) (insert "}\n")) ; and so on, and soon enough you'll be writing lisp instead of c#. 13:20:28 pavelpenev [~quassel@92.247.23.10] has joined #lisp 13:20:36 Ha! It might be worth it just to see the look on the other programmers' faces 13:20:49 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FC216.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:21:24 Well, the only thing strange you could leak, is a comment at the top of the C# files: /* this file is generated automatically from a 100x smaller lisp source I keep out of git because of management objections */ 13:23:02 They already give me grief for using Emacs rather than VS, would be fun to have another oddity in my belt 13:23:21 You could walk around with a chicken on your head. 13:23:26 Now, if I had some free time, I'd write a complete toolbox to generate code from lisp/sexp forms for a set of popular languages. I already have bits and chunks for a range of languages, but nothing comprehensive. 13:23:35 That would work, too Zhivago 13:23:59 Zhivago: what editor do you use? 13:24:38 -!- xificurC [~xificurC@chello085216176057.chello.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:24:50 he uses cosmic rays to flip the bits on the chip directly 13:27:07 I use vim. 13:28:16 I like my editors simple and stupid. 13:28:18 -!- ikki [~ikki@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 13:28:18 *theos* uses gedit :D 13:28:26 Doesn't that involve a mouse? 13:28:29 oh, i see :P 13:28:42 it does. its simple and stupid 13:28:49 Also, I like my fingers to work. 13:29:00 Yeah. I couldn't use an editor that required a mouse. 13:29:10 That would just be too painful. 13:29:56 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.121.205] has joined #lisp 13:31:16 Recently I've been getting into cursive writing input on android. 13:31:22 That might be a nice niche for lisp. 13:31:41 thats interesting 13:32:05 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:32:40 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:19 k-stz [~user@HSI-KBW-046-005-017-096.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:33:48 There aren't many programming languags that you could write well in cursive script. 13:34:29 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36:43 -!- yacks [~py@122.179.102.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:37:05 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:38:25 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:39:00 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:40:57 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [] 13:42:38 what is the simplest way to find if all the items in a list are same 13:42:59 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:43:12 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:43:45 every? 13:44:23 (every #' list (cdr list)) 13:45:12 http://lisptips.com/post/11391361367/comparing-many-objects 13:45:15 (= 1 (length (remove-duplicates list))) 13:45:38 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 13:45:40 (null (set-difference list list :test #')) 13:46:00 now you're just getting silly. 13:47:06 smug 13:47:20 -!- bullone [~user@1-162-237-249.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:47:30 (every (lambda (x) (eql x (car list))) (cdr list)) is probably the most efficient 13:47:49 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.23.251] has joined #lisp 13:48:13 Zhivago cursive writing recognition in lisp? 13:48:37 thanks fe[nl]ix 13:49:18 No. In java, I guess. 13:49:49 The point being that cursive writing is actually pretty nifty for writing, and it's a style that supports lisp syntax reasonably well. 13:49:56 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-182-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:50:22 hmm 13:50:28 fe[nl]ix: i'd pick xach's version over yours any day 13:50:51 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 13:51:35 i think i asked it before too. is there a way to develop android apps with CL on a pc and transfer them to phone? 13:51:49 free* way 13:52:08 Well, native applications are getting better supported ... 13:53:19 anyone tried doing andoriod apps with abc? 13:53:22 *abcl 13:54:24 I understand that abcl has some issues with dalvik. 13:54:26 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.23.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:49 Lispworks are working on an Android port, with full UI bindings 13:57:06 when that happens I'll reconsider developing for Android :) 13:58:18 -!- Guest86896 [~tristamwr@gray-52.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 13:58:18 Guest86896 [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 13:58:45 -!- Guest86896 is now known as TristamWrk 13:59:15 as i understand, we need a CL to dalvik compiler 13:59:34 vaporatorius [~vaporator@25.red-80-29-94.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:59 What about mocl? Have any of you guys taken a closer look at it? 14:01:07 could ABCL be adapted? 14:01:14 frkout [~frkout@nttkyo394241.tkyo.nt.ngn2.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:01:46 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 14:04:00 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04:41 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:05:54 need to convert (* * a * * * b *) to (* a * b *) :) 14:06:01 -!- frkout [~frkout@nttkyo394241.tkyo.nt.ngn2.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:06:06 and its kind 14:06:06 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 14:06:41 Why? 14:07:18 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:07:32 Xach, i am trying to parse sentences 14:08:31 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:59 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:11:36 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-247.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:12:23 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:14:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:15:10 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:15:20 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15:31 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 14:15:40 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:15:56 ECL can do android - I have not tried it 14:16:12 you need a patch but it is free 14:17:06 -!- CrazyEddy [~sandan@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:17:24 yes, but it doesn't have UI bindings 14:18:35 you can run hunchentoot on it! 14:19:28 how about commonqt? 14:19:29 yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:51 -!- yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:19:51 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 14:19:51 commonqt doesn't work with qt 5 14:20:48 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:20:59 but commonqt works on ECL, very slow on haswell, i can imagine what it would be on android 14:21:28 For Lisp programs, what's the best way to run something in the background / as a daemon? 14:21:34 screen 14:22:40 I'm trying specifically to avoid screen/tmux/etc. 14:23:25 you're trying specifically to complicate things? 14:23:32 Yes. 14:23:38 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:38 aeth: what specifically is your problem? i mean, why can't you just start your program in the background? 14:23:48 aeth: ./program & 14:24:36 -!- Guest75568 is now known as xristos 14:25:17 nohup might answer part of that. 14:25:26 Why do you want to avoid screen? 14:26:44 make-process ? 14:26:55 I want to make a tiny/light IRC client with cl-irc that specifically separates the persistent part from the UI part, unlike the in-terminal IRC clients I have used for a long time. 14:27:05 i.e. an IRC client server. 14:28:21 use nohup with a coredump 14:28:43 or start it with mosh if you want to avoid screen 14:28:54 mosh? 14:28:58 you will lose screen logging with mosh 14:29:12 it works on top of ssh 14:29:17 also sb-daemon, cl-daemonize, ... 14:29:17 one moment 14:29:24 -!- k-stz [~user@HSI-KBW-046-005-017-096.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:32 ferada: Right, there are several dozen options. 14:29:44 http://mosh.mit.edu/ 14:29:57 get it from the git repo - it is better 14:30:14 My main concern with cl-daemonize is that for most of it there is no apparent license and the part that has an explicit license is LGPL. 14:32:25 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 14:32:26 aeth: and that does not work with your commercial irc client? 14:33:03 Everything open source is theoretically commercial. There's nothing stopping anyone from selling Linux distro DVDs. 14:33:29 -!- j_king_ is now known as j_king 14:33:38 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 14:33:45 Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has joined #lisp 14:33:53 That's why a lot of people have problems with the no commercial CC licenses. 14:34:32 but does it have a _practical_ limitation on your _specific_ project :P 14:35:01 dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 14:35:06 Well, yeah. Even though I do not *intend* on anyone else using my programs, I don't want to set up a barrier for them to do so. 14:35:28 so ? 14:35:28 aeth: although, note there are existing irc bouncers like ZNC, so you don't really need to write one 14:35:44 Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:35:45 jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-247.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:35:52 the LGPL has nothing to do with usage 14:35:52 oGMo: Right, but cl-irc looks to be fairly complete as it is, skimming over the source. 14:36:09 Most of the work would be in the UI anyway. 14:36:13 prxq [~mommer@x2f68f92.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:24 most of the work _should_ be ui 14:36:39 Well, yeah, I never make predictions about how long something will take or how much work something is. 14:36:46 aeth: and what does that have to do with LGPL ? 14:37:14 Well, technically, I guess cl-daemonize is LGPL since it's viral and part of the code is LGPL? 14:37:23 aeth: if someone decides they want to use your program in a manner contrary to the licence for cl-daemonize they could always approach its author for another licence. This theoretical answer solves your theoretical problem. Go forth and hack (: 14:37:23 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-50-134-206-238.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:37:53 Anyway, the other issue with cl-daemonize is that it's sbcl-only. 14:38:31 also, why? becoming a daemon is like 3 calls and trivial to do 14:38:32 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-106-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:47 i am 99% sure there are posix libraries that wrap those calls 14:38:56 aeth: you can also switch your system to systemd and enjoy any process as a service 14:38:59 oGMo: Isn't it one call? 14:39:12 oGMo: would the i/o streams like it? 14:39:20 aeth: no, there are three, actually 4 if you call multiple calls to fork() 14:39:24 e.g. just looking at it, there appears to be a daemon() 14:39:32 if I want to CFFI? 14:39:33 stassats: doesn't matter, you should close them on the daemon side anyway 14:39:53 so, would they like such a closure? 14:40:03 if you encounter a problem, fix it 14:40:06 if you don't, you're good 14:40:10 no need for mentarbation 14:40:41 the standard streams would be pretty easy to set to other things like logfiles if you really want to 14:40:44 most of the code in https://github.com/nikodemus/sb-daemon/blob/master/daemon.lisp is devoted to streams 14:41:09 i challenged the "also, why? becoming a daemon is like 3 calls and trivial to do" 14:41:17 xificurC [~xificurC@chello085216176057.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 14:41:31 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 14:41:49 stassats: you haven't shown that any of that is actually necessary, either :p 14:43:00 in fact, the only real open is for a pidfile, which is convenience 14:43:15 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p578FC216.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:24 plus you've got a template there for how to fix anything in SBCL should you really run into it, so if you wanted to write a more-openly-licensed, portable version you've got all the tools you need heh 14:45:59 Or I guess I could write it assuming that the user is going to use something (anything, really) to make it a background process. 14:46:07 It's an IRC client, not an operating system. 14:46:31 the user can use bloody screen 14:46:34 Backgrounding something is mostly an issue of session management -- check out what nohup does. 14:46:48 Zhivago: pretty much 14:47:35 stassats: Actually, I prefer tmux because it can tile. For the background stuff I just open it in a separate tmux session that I can then just switch to from the main/user one (that tiles) with C-b s 14:48:00 Perhaps screen's more lightweight, idk, but I always have tmux up anyway so it doesn't hurt. 14:54:56 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@106.51.175.91] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:55:20 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:55:48 -!- macin [~macin@106.208.31.69] has left #lisp 14:57:41 -!- Ethan- [~Ethan-@60.248.176.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:03:18 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:44 xani [~user@178.183.148.36.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 15:12:38 -!- Malice_ [~Malice@94-229-220-135.static.espol.com.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:14:18 zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-188-108-135-243.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:24 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:17:21 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-11-120.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:17:38 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:19:32 -!- _tca_ is now known as _tca 15:19:36 -!- _tca [sid17279@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-odibpsvgazizbxao] has quit [Changing host] 15:19:36 _tca [sid17279@unaffiliated/theconartist] has joined #lisp 15:19:36 -!- _tca [sid17279@unaffiliated/theconartist] has quit [Changing host] 15:19:36 _tca [sid17279@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-odibpsvgazizbxao] has joined #lisp 15:19:59 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:21:26 how can i sort a list of plists alphabetically by a key's value? 15:21:45 axion: a list of plists? 15:21:50 yes 15:22:23 axion: sort takes a :key parameter 15:24:20 how would i do that then? 15:24:38 axion: you provide a function that extracts the key you want to compare. 15:24:43 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 15:24:55 hmm 15:25:21 axion: very similarly to whatever you came up with for find-if, only using a < rather than a = comparator 15:25:23 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:32 If I do that a lot, I sometimes write a function like (defun =getf (key) (lambda (object) (getf object key))), and then (sort plists :key (=getf :field)) 15:26:01 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 15:26:06 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 15:26:14 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 15:26:57 axion: (sort the-list-of-plists #'string-lessp :key (lambda (plist) (getf plist :the-key))) 15:28:03 axion: note how closely H4ns answer tracks your statement of the problem. Isn't lisp wonderful? 15:28:05 fridim__ [~fridim@65.93.77.146] has joined #lisp 15:28:27 (insert apostrophes as appropriate) 15:28:38 believe it or not i've been using lisp several years...just took a year hiatus. thank you all for the help recently 15:29:59 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:15 -!- mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:31:01 you never forget how, it's just like riding one of these: http://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/8770687732_5b73b06b95_z.jpg 15:33:21 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:33:40 hehe 15:33:52 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 267 seconds] 15:34:12 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:34:59 an u-boot ? 15:35:11 Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 15:35:51 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@92.247.23.10] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 15:36:27 that's sbcl internals 15:36:58 somewhere around defstruct implementation 15:38:30 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@25.red-80-29-94.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 15:39:28 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:43:40 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:44:10 mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has joined #lisp 15:44:45 -!- seggy is now known as segmond 15:49:33 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925079224.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:53:12 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:54:51 misv_ [~ms@c-b977e255.033-162-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:02:06 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:02:07 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:16 ndrei_ [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 16:02:32 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:04:25 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16:16:18 macin [~macin@223.189.41.227] has joined #lisp 16:16:29 -!- erjag is now known as varjag 16:18:56 -!- davazp [~user@177.Red-83-63-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:00 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:18 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:20:01 those wheels 16:20:26 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 16:20:28 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:20:52 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:07 -!- mindCrime_ is now known as mindCrime 16:23:51 -!- ndrei_ [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:24:07 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 16:24:31 davazp [~user@177.Red-83-63-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:39 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 16:26:00 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:4c26:1753:3d5f:8f2e] has quit [Quit: EvW] 16:26:06 -!- macin [~macin@223.189.41.227] has quit [Quit: used WLIrc] 16:26:11 JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:45 macin [~macin@223.189.41.227] has joined #lisp 16:27:38 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:27:57 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:34:03 hcnewsom [~user@38.98.105.130] has joined #lisp 16:35:18 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:37:35 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 16:39:17 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC79F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:39:48 waa [~waa@187.53.94.43] has joined #lisp 16:39:55 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xdqzfqerxymqxvkw] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:40:02 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:40:03 Hello, How I can differentiate between list and a-list e.g. (1 3) and ((1 . "one") ('ok . "ok)), http://paste.lisp.org/display/141532 16:40:20 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:51 JuanitoJons: in an alist, each element is a cons. 16:41:05 clhs glossary/association list 16:41:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_a.htm#association_list 16:43:11 -!- ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:43:26 I mean the type: e.g. (type-of '(1 2)) and (type-of '((1 "one"))) is same "cons" 16:43:58 JuanitoJons: (every 'consp list) is true for an alist. 16:44:27 <|3b|> CL doesn't have any good types describing the contents of lists 16:44:33 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 16:45:12 Xach: I get it, thanks. 16:47:18 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:50:26 akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.161.70] has joined #lisp 16:53:20 -!- ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:54:58 senj [~senj@unaffiliated/senj] has joined #lisp 16:55:08 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56:16 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:57:10 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 16:57:18 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-142-79.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:57:33 Good evening everyone. 16:58:00 hey beach 16:58:09 -!- waa [~waa@187.53.94.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:23 hey beach! 16:59:33 Davidbrcz_ [~david@i16-les03-th2-5-48-246-200.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 16:59:35 greetings lispers! 17:00:09 What's new? 17:00:17 beach: climacs to github! 17:00:21 (i hope!) 17:00:33 Oh, OK. Great! Who is doing it? 17:00:34 Who wants to move it there? 17:00:43 That is what I would like to encourage & know 17:00:58 I guess I could do that. 17:01:07 But you need to give me some time. 17:01:32 When do you need it done? 17:02:07 There is no rush. I am eager to reduce the use of CVS as a source of Quicklisp projects, and climacs is a project that I think someone might love enough to move. 17:02:16 beirc is another that I wish would move from CVS. 17:02:37 OK, I'll do Climacs, no problem. I may have to be reminded. 17:02:39 well i have put my own snapshots of the quicklisp libs on github but..... 17:02:47 nothing which is maintained as such..... 17:03:58 there are too many forks with the same name and similar contents maybe..... 17:04:22 oleo: Forks of what? 17:04:34 climacs, beirc, mcclim..... 17:06:34 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 17:06:42 Alfr [~Unknown@g225181139.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:57 splittist: [reading the logs] Thanks for answering questions about SICL in my absence! :) 17:09:23 beach: always happy to bask in reflected glory 17:09:50 Heh! You seem to have read some of the stuff, though. 17:09:52 remove code is most fun! 17:09:58 *stassats`* removes another 94 lines from sbcl 17:10:19 s/remove/removing/ 17:10:34 Removing unneeded code is very satisfying. 17:11:41 hej beach :) 17:12:14 fe[nl]ix: Hi! What's up? 17:13:18 -!- nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:14:07 I'll be giving a talk about IOlib at the ECLM in Berlin :) 17:15:08 fe[nl]ix: Great! You have plenty of time to prepare. 17:17:01 indeed 17:33:44 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:44 17:33:44 -!- names: ccl-logbot Khisanth ustunozgur waisl beach nha prim ivan\ sdemarre innertracks mrhooray varjag_ zarul kliph sellout slyrus wgl crixus SrPx Lefeni waa mishoo eudoxia_ gravicappa [SLB] gigetoo zacharias yrk Fare DGASAU` Bike zophy joast CrazyWoods Denommus Vutral v0|d``` Twipply ronparke amadsen przl jarod_chen mathrick zjxv oleo wheelsucker Praise segv- sohail vaporatorius Karl_Dscc dstolfa Kneferilis round-robin Shinmera Malice LiamH kanru zxq9 Okasu 17:33:44 -!- names: harish stardiviner Jayk97 mksan codeburg kirin` JuanDaugherty lisper29 loicbsd AdmiralBumbleBee ktx wilfredh ggole Code_Man` bjz arenz nop0x07bc madnificent mrSpec jewel AGinsberg edgar-rft EvW MoALTz diadara bocaneri H4ns Adeon ThePhoeron keen_____ sveit beaumonta guiambros mdh` prxq_ dmiles_afk araujo chirpsalot lemoinem eigenlicht mhd kpreid askatasuna Vivitron` Codynyx Mandus theos derrida optikalmouse Patzy ered ferada bmuk drewc jasom BrianRice uzo 17:33:44 -!- names: nand1 tali713 MrWoohoo lupine mc40 MinnowTaur asedeno nialo_u flip214 peterhil seangrove segmond shifty Adlai Nshag m00n McMAGIC--Copy gf3 erry sauerkrause hugoduncan joneshf-work mindCrime yano q3k Fullma sandbender1512 hugod Oddity drdo bhyde dfox WeirdEnthusiast clop naryl nydel effy guaqua` ck_ joshe therik impulse nightfly emma sword funnel ben| pillton Posterdati wgreenhouse ahungry jayne quackv4 sytse wchun cmpitg whartung alakra cdidd ryankarason 17:33:44 -!- names: matko fikusz ggherdov_ MightyJoe splittist InvalidCo [1]JPeterson gensym _8680_ jackdaniel billstclair rtoym Krystof clop2 _tca Natch _5kg_ victor_lowther BaconOverflow davorb gluegadget mksan_ misv SHODAN PuercoPop j0ni milosn foom doomlord__ dRbiG srcerer aftershave mordocai` GuilOooo ar cantstanya Subfusc aoh sykopomp bjorkintosh cyphase nuba luis izirku aLmostHumAn tessier_ joga alexherbo2 fnordbert joneshf-laptop jonh axion minion specbot easye 17:33:44 -!- names: hyoyoung_home cjwelborn phadthai jaimef adsisco pjb hpd benny mal_ Tristam abbe killmaster vhost- kbtr_ w|t aerique Jubb mtd_ K1rk dlowe pchrist ianmcorvidae sfa daimrod AeroNotix Blkt theBlackDragon ozzloy j_king loke_ sshirokov sbryant gko ConstantineXVI |3b| Zag ZombieChicken rvchangue z0d AntiSpamMeta cpt_nemo xristos Kruppe otwieracz tychoish ircbrowse Mathieu White_Flame oconnore ec TristamWrk _schulte_ Yamazaki-kun Xach quasisane Guest553` 17:33:44 -!- names: schoppenhauer copec oGMo andyo pok smull kbc antoszka Munksgaard fe[nl]ix eagleflo jsnell_ cmatei froggey tkd aeth justinmcp bege bobbysmith007 arbscht marcoecc hypno__ ramus marsbot zymurgy spacebat brucem staykov ecraven d3f eMBee Zhivago BlastHardcheese __main__ peccu3 saarin Neptu newcup kyl Watcher7 djinni` sjl nicdev clog johs ski nightshade427 zbigniew redline6561 nialo` eee-blt felideon farhaven sigjuice samebchase felipe dan64 yauz eak finnrobi 17:33:44 -!- names: fmu ft igorw spacefrogg cross nitro_idiot Tordek_ jdoles karbak p_l|backup dim gabot acieroid cods _death cmbntr_ tvaalen ``Erik Borbus hzp p_l Anarch Fade Ober faheem ineiros yroeht2 rvncerr wormphlegm freiksenet vert2 Kabaka_ yeltzooo enn musicalchair __class__ mood cibs karupanerura iwilcox epsylon tomaw 17:34:26 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: going to a meeting] 17:37:08 nahiluhmot [~thulihan@pool-96-238-59-38.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:37 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.59.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:18 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li350-154.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:40:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@147.30.12.25] has joined #lisp 17:40:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@147.30.12.25] has quit [Changing host] 17:40:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:43:44 whartung_ [~whartung@wsip-70-183-27-154.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:44 -!- whartung [~whartung@wsip-70-183-27-154.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:45 -!- whartung_ is now known as whartung 17:51:09 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-229-192-04.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:51:29 seantallen [seantallen@nat/theladders/x-soxkvitndoyjyxlq] has joined #lisp 17:52:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:58:25 -!- beaumonta [~abeaumont@77.231.228.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:01:39 drbd [~admin@148.Red-79-148-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:35 clintm [~clintm@001e52f0de2b.click-network.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:49 Do any of you know of a replacement for hunchentoot's session mechanism that will read/write to a db or other distributed store? I thought I'd ask before I wrote such a thing. 18:08:59 -!- prim [~user@unaffiliated/prim] has left #lisp 18:09:14 -!- zophy [~sy@host-98-218-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:09:38 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:11:59 TeMPOraL [~user@87-207-167-147.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 18:12:20 f2312 [~roland@209-195-77-29.cpe.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:35 For the sake of breaking (or rather not breaking) notation: if foo and bar take, say, 3 parameters, and bar returns a list with 3 elements, is there a way to write (foo (bar x y z)) so that foo receives its three parameters instead of the list that bar evaluates to? 18:14:03 drbd: apply 18:14:24 Hydan [~0x6463@ip-89-103-110-16.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:14:54 lispoon [3ac7836f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.199.131.111] has joined #lisp 18:16:31 Fixed! Thanks everyone... the new code -> http://paste.lisp.org/+31DA not very ugly. 18:17:49 Vivitron [~Vivitron@172.56.13.206] has joined #lisp 18:18:12 jasom : I didn't saw your question then. My reading Engilsh is in an IE8 speed.... 18:18:20 <|3b|> lispoon: would be less ugly without the tabs confusing the indentation 18:18:21 Bike: yes, but with the call written as I wrote it 18:18:52 drbd: of course not, as you wrote it it has to use a list. just do (apply #'foo (bar x y z)) 18:19:25 no macro magic of any sort? 18:19:26 <|3b|> actually, maybe it was indented wrong to start with 18:20:05 drbd: you could write (my-macro (foo (bar x y z))) to expand into (apply #'foo (bar x y z)) but what would be the point? 18:20:19 knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has joined #lisp 18:20:26 <|3b|> drbd: "macro magic" implies the use of a macro, which you can't add without changing how it is written or replacing one of the functions 18:20:28 Any turtorial for the indentation??? 18:20:45 Bike: No, just like that. The reason is I'm expanding a little program and before breaking current notation I wanted to ask you guys 18:20:51 <_death> lispoon: http://dept-info.labri.u-bordeaux.fr/~idurand/enseignement/PFS/Common/Strandh-Tutorial/indentation.html 18:20:57 <|3b|> lispoon: the IF forms should be indented the same amount in that function 18:21:13 -!- Vivitron` [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:21:31 *|3b|* probably wouldn't put the second IF all on one line like that either 18:22:09 *|3b|* would probably also use UNLESS instead of IF there 18:22:19 |3b|: maybe someone had written some 'splice the results of a function and put them into the parameter list of another' thing. 18:22:22 <|3b|> actually, WHEN and drop the NOT 18:22:37 <|3b|> drbd: like APPLY? 18:22:51 you're literally describing apply. 18:22:53 like doing the call exactly as is written 18:23:04 Jesin [~Jesin@dhcp123-203.eecs.lehigh.edu] has joined #lisp 18:23:21 we wouldn't do that, because we would just use apply if we wanted to use the list as arguments instead of one argument. 18:23:57 ookey, thanks guys 18:24:05 <|3b|> if it is "exactly as written" where would the "splice the results" thing go? 18:24:18 <_death> drbd: (defmacro moo (form) `(apply (function ,(car form)) ,(cadr form))) 18:24:20 |3b| in the magic(TM) 18:24:33 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-016-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:41 <_death> drbd: then (moo (foo (bar x y z))) ==> (apply #'foo (bar x y z)) 18:24:48 -!- lispoon [3ac7836f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.199.131.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:25:06 _death: but then it's no good for what's already written. 18:25:18 *|3b|* supposes you could do it with "insane" instead of "magic" if you really wanted to 18:25:40 |3b| use some imagination sometines ok :) 18:26:05 <|3b|> for example putting reader macros on all characters to compile your own not-quite-cl to cl 18:26:27 <_death> drbd: then indeed you'd have to alter the environment.. e.g., (let ((old-fn (fdefinition 'foo))) (setf (fdefinition 'foo) (lambda (args) (apply old-fn args)))) 18:26:32 lispoon [3ac7836f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.199.131.111] has joined #lisp 18:26:37 <|3b|> you can't just do it at that site, since you couldn't distinguish between the FOO you want to behave specially, and a local FOO function 18:26:55 <_death> drbd: it also assumes it's not inline 18:27:14 -!- mrhooray [~textual@c-98-210-11-93.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:27:21 |3b| precisely 18:27:30 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@172.56.13.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:27:50 i think you should seriously reconsider what you're doing when you appeal for unexplainable "magic" 18:28:18 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:28:21 Bike: what tech is around you that was insane or impossible just two decades ago? 18:28:30 *|3b|* supposes your global FOO could be a macro that expands to different things depending on whether it is called with 1 argument starting with BAR 18:28:37 I was just a question... 18:28:44 <|3b|> drbd: i mean 'insane' as in 'bad idea' not 'hard to think of' 18:28:47 drbd: your question isn't well framed. 18:28:51 Vivitron [~Vivitron@172.56.13.206] has joined #lisp 18:29:04 Bike: all questions have to be well framed? 18:29:16 <|3b|> if you want useful answers, it helps quite a bit 18:29:31 |3b| I guess you are locally right :) 18:29:33 <_death> 3b: you could have some (if *my-special-hack* ...) there 18:29:46 <|3b|> _death: that would change the code 18:29:54 _death: yeah, writing my own lisp in forth 18:29:59 or something 18:30:40 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-78-94-248-225.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 18:30:40 <_death> 3b: maybe.. it depends on his actual problem I suppose 18:30:48 -!- lispoon [3ac7836f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.199.131.111] has quit [Client Quit] 18:31:55 thanks for the discussion, g'night 18:32:14 -!- drbd [~admin@148.Red-79-148-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 18:33:13 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AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp 2014-03-22T14:18:53Z asedeno joined #lisp 2014-03-22T14:19:32Z kcj joined #lisp 2014-03-22T14:24:03Z fiveop: Does anyone know what the rational was behind having some (def... macros take the documentation as an optional second argument and some provide a different way to provide documentation (like defclass or defvar for example)? 2014-03-22T14:25:27Z slarti quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-22T14:25:40Z pjb: defvar is not like defclass. 2014-03-22T14:26:47Z pjb: defclass and defgeneric are more recent additions. They use "options", and :documentation option lists, probably by the realization that it's easier for tools to parse them, vs. the declare/docstring/result mess in defun or defmethod. 2014-03-22T14:27:45Z fiveop: pjb: I wanted to provide two different examples, therefore 'defclass or defvar'. 2014-03-22T14:27:53Z pjb: Oh right. 2014-03-22T14:27:55Z pjb: (defun f () "result") (defun f (x) "docstring" (declare (integer x))) (defun f (x) (declare (integer x)) "result") (defun f (x) (declare (integer x)) "docstring" (declare (ftype (function (T) null) f))) 2014-03-22T14:28:41Z pjb: So the answer is mostly legacy and historical reasons. 2014-03-22T14:28:56Z slarti joined #lisp 2014-03-22T14:29:09Z pjb: Notice that we could as well use (declaim (declaration documentation)) (defun f () (declare (documentation "ragnagna")) 42) 2014-03-22T14:29:22Z pjb: Not defvar wouldn't take a declaration :-) 2014-03-22T14:31:07Z pjb: In anycase, this is not important: you can always write your own set of macros in a fiveop-lisp package, if you'd really needed more homogeneity. There's a library that define a generalized def macro. 2014-03-22T14:31:31Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-22T14:32:07Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-03-22T14:32:36Z fiveop: I could, but I was just wondering. :) Far too much trouble. 2014-03-22T14:32:46Z ustunozgur quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-03-22T14:33:08Z fiveop: Clojure moved the docstring in front of the lambda list for defn, thus preventing ambiguity. 2014-03-22T14:38:18Z rme joined #lisp 2014-03-22T14:40:38Z rme left #lisp 2014-03-22T14:41:30Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-22T14:42:07Z housel joined #lisp 2014-03-22T14:47:42Z anster quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-22T14:50:36Z Hydan quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-22T14:52:36Z b80905 joined #lisp 2014-03-22T14:53:10Z b80905: are there any game engines that use lisp? 2014-03-22T14:53:29Z pjb: better asked on #lispgames 2014-03-22T14:55:21Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-22T14:55:21Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 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(Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-22T16:09:15Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-22T16:09:28Z sohail quit (Changing host) 2014-03-22T16:09:28Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-22T16:12:38Z waisl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-22T16:14:11Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-03-22T16:14:32Z francogrex quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-22T16:22:07Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-22T16:27:11Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-22T16:32:01Z varjag quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-22T16:33:04Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-22T16:34:45Z slyrus: hmm... i'm rusty... can I (define (setf foo) ...) such that it takes multiple values? and what's the corresponding (setf (foo ...) ) syntax? 2014-03-22T16:37:07Z lduros quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-22T16:40:00Z hitecnologys: slyrus: I'm not sure this is the right channel for such question. 2014-03-22T16:40:14Z |3b|: (setf (values x y) (floor 3 2)) works, so i'd assume so 2014-03-22T16:40:16Z hitecnologys: slyrus: AFAIK, (define function ...) is Scheme. 2014-03-22T16:40:24Z slyrus: defun 2014-03-22T16:40:33Z hitecnologys: Ah, OK then. 2014-03-22T16:40:35Z slyrus: thanks |3b| 2014-03-22T16:40:37Z |3b|: don't think you can with defun 2014-03-22T16:40:53Z |3b|: probably need the most verbose setf defining thing 2014-03-22T16:41:02Z slyrus: ah, right 2014-03-22T16:41:40Z pjb: Which is the slime function that displays the variable under the cursor and its binding in the mini-buffer? 2014-03-22T16:44:19Z jxv is now known as zjxv 2014-03-22T16:48:14Z Fare joined #lisp 2014-03-22T16:48:25Z diadara quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-22T16:49:23Z diadara joined #lisp 2014-03-22T16:56:01Z JuanDaugherty quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-22T16:56:04Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-22T16:57:22Z arbscht quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2) 2014-03-22T16:57:30Z Bike joined #lisp 2014-03-22T16:57:33Z qiemem quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-22T17:01:21Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-22T17:01:51Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-22T17:02:51Z arbscht joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:03:58Z Whitesquall joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:05:40Z Ralt: hi 2014-03-22T17:05:55Z Ralt: I got an issue with usocket's streams where I can't get coherent data out of it 2014-03-22T17:05:56Z SeanTAllen joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:05:58Z Ralt: http://pastie.org/8959323 2014-03-22T17:06:12Z Ralt: I just don't know what I'm doing wrong, my loop looks okay 2014-03-22T17:06:46Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:07:48Z Ralt: (format nil "~{~a~}" (loop for line = (read-line stream nil 'eos) until (eq line 'eos) collect line)) 2014-03-22T17:07:54Z Ralt: is that not the right way? 2014-03-22T17:08:02Z |3b|: what do you get / what do you expect? 2014-03-22T17:08:49Z Ralt: I get this: 2014-03-22T17:08:54Z Ralt: Cookie: connect.sid=s%3AtgPbFCPwjXmpHrvpoDW6NJFA.IrdhWj0vvazgRwRKIMwETPzKGkgat7snQdwgpMilREAecko) Chrome/33.0.1750.152 Safari/537.36 2014-03-22T17:08:54Z Ralt: Cookie: connect.sid=s%3AtgPbFCPwjXmpHrvpoDW6NJFA.IrdhWj0vvazgRwRKIMwETPzKGkgat7snQdwgpMilREAecko) Chrome/33.0.1750.152 Safari/537.36 2014-03-22T17:08:56Z bgs100 joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:09:04Z |3b|: don't paste multiple lines here 2014-03-22T17:09:06Z Ralt: I'm supposed to get each header :\ 2014-03-22T17:09:21Z Ralt: oh. Well, these lines are in the pastie shown above ^ 2014-03-22T17:09:32Z |3b|: even more reason not to paste them :p 2014-03-22T17:10:24Z Asgeir quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-22T17:10:33Z Ralt: I thought it'd be rude to tell you "see the link I posted earlier" :-) 2014-03-22T17:10:57Z Bike quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-22T17:11:05Z |3b|: rude part is not explaining things clearly 2014-03-22T17:11:11Z |3b|: "each header" isn't very informative 2014-03-22T17:11:26Z Ralt: it's an http request 2014-03-22T17:11:26Z |3b|: which part of the output should be headers? 2014-03-22T17:11:34Z Ralt: the stream is the request 2014-03-22T17:11:50Z Ralt: so the header-build function should return a string with all the headers 2014-03-22T17:12:08Z rune1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-22T17:12:18Z Ralt: this is what I should get: http://pastebin.com/YQXJVDBT 2014-03-22T17:13:47Z Ralt: it looks like usocket's streams are FD-STREAMS, so the loop should do the job fine :\ 2014-03-22T17:15:21Z |3b|: could you put another log message after the :debug req one and show the results? 2014-03-22T17:15:49Z |3b|: that output doesn't look like it matches that code, unless your logging lib is broken 2014-03-22T17:16:09Z Ralt: yup, that's what bothers me 2014-03-22T17:16:23Z Ralt: what should I log after the :debug req one? 2014-03-22T17:16:24Z |3b|: actually, i suspect your terminal is showing the results improperly 2014-03-22T17:16:29Z sid_cypher joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:16:39Z Ralt: what do you mean? 2014-03-22T17:16:39Z |3b|: where is the log output going? 2014-03-22T17:16:43Z Ralt: in a file 2014-03-22T17:16:51Z |3b|: look at it in a hex viewer 2014-03-22T17:17:05Z Ralt: oh 2014-03-22T17:17:10Z Ralt: k, doing that 2014-03-22T17:17:22Z Ralt: maybe the ^M characters are fucking up? 2014-03-22T17:17:34Z |3b| suspects you are printing carriage return characters in some way that they are interpreted as "go to beginning of line" 2014-03-22T17:17:40Z Ralt: oooh 2014-03-22T17:17:48Z Ralt: shows up fine in vim 2014-03-22T17:17:51Z |3b|: so all you headers are written over eachother 2014-03-22T17:18:14Z Ralt: hm :\ 2014-03-22T17:18:16Z |3b|: collect (string-trim '(#\newline #\return) line) or something 2014-03-22T17:18:30Z Ralt: thanks, looking up string-trim 2014-03-22T17:18:59Z |3b|: or use an external format that recognizes CRLF 2014-03-22T17:19:17Z Ralt: yeah I'll just use vim to check 2014-03-22T17:19:24Z Ralt: thanks 2014-03-22T17:19:26Z Vivitron quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-22T17:20:24Z sid_cypher: hello everyone o/ 2014-03-22T17:20:41Z Ralt: hi 2014-03-22T17:20:52Z Fare: hi 2014-03-22T17:21:32Z sid_cypher: building a website with Hunchentoot & cl-who, got a question about file loading 2014-03-22T17:22:10Z sid_cypher: in all frameworks i've seen, like Restas and Weblocks, there no loadable files for lisp code 2014-03-22T17:22:49Z Ralt: |3b|: thanks, that was just that. I'll keep going now :) 2014-03-22T17:22:56Z sid_cypher: is it a taboo, bad practice, or just no one did such a feature? 2014-03-22T17:23:40Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:24:06Z fourier joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:24:22Z |3b|: sid_cypher: you mean hooks for loading extra code at runtime? 2014-03-22T17:24:35Z sid_cypher: if anyone got a website running on Hunchentoot, i'd like to ask - where do you put your html-generating forms? 2014-03-22T17:24:42Z sid_cypher: |3b|: sort of, yeah 2014-03-22T17:24:52Z |3b| suspects most people that to do so just load things by hand in a repl 2014-03-22T17:25:02Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-22T17:25:34Z |3b|: and if the html is changing a lot, use a templating lib rather than something like cl-who 2014-03-22T17:26:51Z sid_cypher: i wrote a few websites in PHP earlier (that's why i'm switching to Lisp), and i'd like to make the site-making experience in Lisp just as easy to roll out 2014-03-22T17:26:52Z |3b| probably wouldn't want to risk letting a production server load new code while i'm not sitting there watching it anyway 2014-03-22T17:27:08Z nha_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-22T17:27:36Z Bike joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:28:14Z sid_cypher: well, right now i did a horrible thing and put the handler-making macro and html-expanding macro in an eval call. no way around it 2014-03-22T17:29:08Z fourier: Hi all 2014-03-22T17:29:59Z Bike quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-22T17:30:21Z sid_cypher: fourier: hi 2014-03-22T17:30:25Z fourier: I got a strange problem (heap overflow) with using structs (defstruct) with parent and children. Able to reproduce with 3 compilers (sbcl, clisp and lispworks) 2014-03-22T17:31:24Z sid_cypher: if anybody is interested, here is the first draft of the file-reloading i do, "htsx" being HyperText S-eXpression 2014-03-22T17:31:27Z fourier: I want to create a tree-like struct (with parent and children), and fill children afterwards 2014-03-22T17:31:27Z sid_cypher: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141751 2014-03-22T17:31:47Z fourier: Here is an example: http://paste.lisp.org/+31DI 2014-03-22T17:32:22Z fourier: Now running (test-struct) I got a Heap exhausted error :( 2014-03-22T17:32:56Z Bike joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:34:04Z sid_cypher: fourier: why not use (dotimes (x 9) ...) instead of dolist? still looking for error 2014-03-22T17:34:21Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-22T17:35:28Z fourier: sid_cypher: yes, it doesn't matter - it is just an artificial example from another code... looking at my code I cannot understand what was an error. A similar approach worked for me in Emacs Lisp (however I defined my own defstruct based on property lists where) 2014-03-22T17:36:21Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys) 2014-03-22T17:36:43Z wheelsucker joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:37:27Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-22T17:38:43Z Bike joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:39:13Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-22T17:39:23Z kliph joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:39:28Z kliph quit (Changing host) 2014-03-22T17:39:28Z kliph joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:41:21Z sid_cypher: fourier: fill-struct works for me, but test-struct doesn't terminate fast enough 2014-03-22T17:41:29Z codeburg quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 2014-03-22T17:44:03Z fourier: sid_cypher: yep it leads to heap overflow on all my 3 compilers (sbcl, clisp and lispworks) 2014-03-22T17:46:03Z schaueho joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:46:30Z fourier: Here is an example I made previously for Emacs Lisp (I've implemented own defrecord macro basically generating a property list with a set of named getters/setters) http://paste.lisp.org/+31DK . This works fine with this (slightly modified) example 2014-03-22T17:49:38Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-22T17:53:29Z Fare joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:54:03Z pjb: fourier: (setf *print-circle* t) 2014-03-22T17:55:02Z TheMoonMaster joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:55:15Z MoALTz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-22T17:55:15Z sid_cypher: fourier: is fill-struct supposed to be a pure function? 2014-03-22T17:55:39Z fourier: pjb: thanks, that actually works! what was that? 2014-03-22T17:55:43Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2014-03-22T17:56:20Z pjb: In the parent you have a reference to the children. In a child you have a reference to the parent. Therefore when printing you get infinite loops. 2014-03-22T17:56:27Z fourier: sid_cypher: yes, I designed it this way 2014-03-22T17:56:28Z pjb: and infinite recursion. 2014-03-22T17:57:06Z fourier: Aah so it is actually a printing error, not a code itself.. cool! thanks! 2014-03-22T17:57:10Z pjb: With *print-circle* the print algorithm takes care of that, and uses the #= ## syntax to denote shared structures including circles. 2014-03-22T17:57:24Z sid_cypher: pjb: good catch! :) 2014-03-22T17:57:31Z fourier: amazing :) 2014-03-22T17:58:44Z pjb: Unfortunately, *print-circle* is nil by default (it's more efficient like that when there are no circles). You can set it to T in your rc files. 2014-03-22T17:59:41Z pjb: What took > 300 ms 30 years ago takes < 3 ÎĽs nowadays. 2014-03-22T18:00:26Z sid_cypher: i would really like some input on loading cl-who forms in hunchentoot at runtime, if anybody knows 2014-03-22T18:01:30Z sid_cypher: is loading forms from files, and expanding them in an eval-call bad or not? 2014-03-22T18:02:00Z pjb: Well, I don't use it. For some background have a look at: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/source/e9509008492ee644cb4ac7c0674b20c8faca7f03:common-lisp/html-generator/html-generators-in-lisp.txt 2014-03-22T18:02:11Z sid_cypher: pjb: thanks 2014-03-22T18:02:46Z Amy19 joined #lisp 2014-03-22T18:04:01Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-22T18:04:10Z Amy19 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-22T18:04:11Z pranavrc quit (Quit: Ping timeout: âž) 2014-03-22T18:05:56Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-22T18:07:22Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-22T18:07:27Z Hydan joined #lisp 2014-03-22T18:07:35Z kwark quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-03-22T18:08:09Z kwark joined #lisp 2014-03-22T18:09:19Z Fare: print-circle can make for unreadable output from e.g. backtraces 2014-03-22T18:09:20Z |3b|: sid_cypher: wht read + eval instead of just load or compile-file + load? 2014-03-22T18:09:28Z |3b|: *why 2014-03-22T18:09:56Z sid_cypher: read the text, nothing on loadable files. 2014-03-22T18:10:03Z |3b|: ? 2014-03-22T18:10:11Z sid_cypher: |3b|: because i want to reload with a function call 2014-03-22T18:10:20Z |3b|: LOAD is a function 2014-03-22T18:10:37Z |3b|: as is COMPILE-FILE 2014-03-22T18:10:45Z |3b|: both can be called from other functions 2014-03-22T18:11:52Z Whitesqu_ joined #lisp 2014-03-22T18:12:15Z sid_cypher: |3b|: but then i would be reloading webserver code 2014-03-22T18:12:18Z kwark quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-22T18:12:32Z |3b|: as opposed to reloading web server code by hand? 2014-03-22T18:12:35Z varjag_ joined #lisp 2014-03-22T18:12:44Z |3b| obviously isn't understanding what you are trying to do 2014-03-22T18:13:06Z Whitesquall quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-22T18:13:23Z araujo joined #lisp 2014-03-22T18:13:41Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-22T18:13:55Z |3b|: it sounds like you are saying something like (eval (read "some-file")), which sounds like (load "some-file") 2014-03-22T18:14:14Z 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2014-03-22T18:16:50Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-03-22T18:17:06Z |3b|: no, cl-who is a macro that is expanded during compilation of code that uses the cl-who macros 2014-03-22T18:17:18Z |3b|: (or during evaluation if you don't compile it) 2014-03-22T18:17:40Z |3b|: any uses of the cl-who macro in server code will be expanded when you compile the server code 2014-03-22T18:17:55Z |3b|: uses in the markup code will be expanded when you compile or evaluate the markup code 2014-03-22T18:18:26Z |3b|: you can compile or evaluate things any time you want in CL 2014-03-22T18:19:13Z sykopomp` joined #lisp 2014-03-22T18:19:29Z sid_cypher: |3b|: thanks to that fact i'm still able to use cl-who with freshly updated (:html ...) forms :) 2014-03-22T18:19:36Z McMAGIC-1Copy joined #lisp 2014-03-22T18:19:40Z |3b| isn't saying LOAD at runtime is the best idea, just that it is more direct than READ + EVAL 2014-03-22T18:20:24Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-22T18:21:12Z sykopomp quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-22T18:21:25Z Guest6066 is now known as lisper29 2014-03-22T18:21:56Z sid_cypher: |3b|: i want to update my html output with any form, no matter where it comes from, a file or socket or something else, that's why i didn't use LOAD 2014-03-22T18:22:35Z |3b|: ok, if you can't use LOAD, EVAL is more reasonable, as long as you trust all the sources of code not to delete your files or whatever 2014-03-22T18:22:39Z McMAGIC--Copy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-22T18:23:19Z |3b| would still pick a templating lib over something like cl-who though 2014-03-22T18:23:25Z Bike quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-22T18:23:49Z Bike joined #lisp 2014-03-22T18:24:35Z dandersen is now known as dkcl 2014-03-22T18:24:45Z sid_cypher: well, template are just not flexible enough, i think. 2014-03-22T18:25:23Z sid_cypher: *templates. 2014-03-22T18:25:50Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-22T18:26:06Z dkcl quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-22T18:26:32Z dandersen joined 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quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-22T20:49:30Z Whitesqu_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-22T20:52:24Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-22T20:53:39Z gigetoo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-22T20:54:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp 2014-03-22T20:59:37Z oleo: i have a question about threads 2014-03-22T21:00:29Z oleo: i defined a reader macro and the dispatching macro chars, calling them in sbcl gives me output but not in my mcclim listener.... 2014-03-22T21:01:27Z oleo: i tried wrapping (join-thread make-thread (defun my-reader..... which doesn't work here.... 2014-03-22T21:01:34Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-22T21:01:39Z oleo: it works with other codes tho.... 2014-03-22T21:01:46Z oleo: why does it fail with reader ? 2014-03-22T21:03:53Z oleo: having non-forking proces is moot, cause i need my sbcl-repl for other work after i invoke the listener... 2014-03-22T21:07:21Z oleo: with the above method it seems i'm effectively killin the reader before it even sets out (or in midst of it) doing it's work.... 2014-03-22T21:08:31Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-22T21:11:03Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-22T21:13:06Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-22T21:13:13Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2014-03-22T21:13:46Z theos joined #lisp 2014-03-22T21:15:01Z MjrTom joined #lisp 2014-03-22T21:15:19Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp 2014-03-22T21:17:35Z swflint quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-22T21:24:49Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-22T21:27:35Z segmond joined #lisp 2014-03-22T21:34:03Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-22T21:34:24Z kcj joined #lisp 2014-03-22T21:37:37Z Bike joined #lisp 2014-03-22T21:40:23Z Ralt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-22T21:42:49Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-22T21:43:15Z Bike joined #lisp 2014-03-22T21:43:41Z kcj quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 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MjrTom`-` is now known as MjrTom 2014-03-22T23:31:38Z oleo: why the heck does my listeners output-records or output get corrupted when i do something like 2014-03-22T23:32:46Z oleo: (use-package :sb-thread) (dotimes (i 20) (join-thread (make-thread (lambda () ((lambda (j) (print j #.*standard-output*)) i)))) 2014-03-22T23:33:50Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-22T23:34:18Z Bike quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-22T23:34:40Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-22T23:35:07Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-22T23:35:58Z dandersen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-22T23:37:38Z nha_ quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-22T23:39:13Z mrSpec quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-22T23:48:25Z slarti quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-22T23:49:54Z mhd quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2014-03-22T23:49:55Z mhd quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2014-03-22T23:52:22Z 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https://gist.github.com/chaitanyagupta/9324402 2014-03-23T01:59:14Z mhd joined #lisp 2014-03-23T01:59:56Z PuercoPop: *implements json syntax 2014-03-23T02:00:46Z nurv: PuercoPop: Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted 2014-03-23T02:01:16Z kobain quit 2014-03-23T02:04:34Z varjag_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-23T02:05:18Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-23T02:28:08Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T02:30:41Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T02:32:47Z brandonz joined #lisp 2014-03-23T02:34:49Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T02:39:09Z prxq_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T02:42:18Z prxq quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T02:44:50Z kanru joined #lisp 2014-03-23T02:49:59Z peterhil quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-23T02:51:34Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-23T02:52:40Z peterhil joined #lisp 2014-03-23T02:53:09Z lyanchih_ quit (Quit: lyanchih_) 2014-03-23T02:55:59Z MjrTom quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T02:59:38Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all.) 2014-03-23T03:04:56Z AGinsberg: ,webbrowser 2014-03-23T03:05:03Z AGinsberg: Woops 2014-03-23T03:05:31Z McMAGIC-1Copy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T03:05:45Z McMAGIC--Copy joined #lisp 2014-03-23T03:08:48Z Bike joined #lisp 2014-03-23T03:09:00Z Adlai quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T03:11:08Z tensorpudding joined #lisp 2014-03-23T03:12:59Z beach joined #lisp 2014-03-23T03:13:10Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2014-03-23T03:13:53Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-23T03:15:08Z cheryllium joined #lisp 2014-03-23T03:16:52Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-03-23T03:17:20Z lisper29 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-23T03:17:29Z Vutral quit (Excess Flood) 2014-03-23T03:17:33Z qiemem quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-23T03:17:58Z Adlai joined #lisp 2014-03-23T03:18:39Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T03:19:56Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-23T03:19:56Z 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Is 3:07 a lot, or not a lot? 2014-03-23T03:45:44Z slyrus: seems pretty good to me 2014-03-23T03:46:07Z beach: twennn: I don't appreciate your spam. Go away! 2014-03-23T03:46:41Z slyrus: you're probably talking to a bot beach 2014-03-23T03:46:55Z beach: Yes, probably. 2014-03-23T03:47:12Z beach: I was kind of hoping someone could kick it. 2014-03-23T03:49:56Z beach: I suppose build time is important if you want to test improvements and such. 2014-03-23T03:50:33Z beach: p_l: Around? Could you kick this twennn thing? 2014-03-23T03:50:42Z AGinsberg: Is there a way to do (eval `(nth 0 var1,var2)) except without there being a space between var1 and var2 2014-03-23T03:50:47Z ChanServ has set mode +o p_l 2014-03-23T03:51:00Z slyrus: beach: that's like saying 0-60 time is important if you want to get home from the grocery store before the ice cream melts 2014-03-23T03:51:11Z cmpitg quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T03:51:17Z p_l: beach: what did he do? (had joins/parts/quits ignored) 2014-03-23T03:51:24Z slyrus: pm spam 2014-03-23T03:51:42Z beach: p_l: What slyrus said. 2014-03-23T03:51:48Z p_l has set mode +b *!*ircap@90.174.1.* 2014-03-23T03:51:48Z twennn [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (Please don't PM spam) 2014-03-23T03:52:10Z p_l: dunno if it will help with PMs, though 2014-03-23T03:52:47Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp 2014-03-23T03:54:13Z beach: AGinsberg: I don't understand what you are asking. 2014-03-23T03:54:54Z AGinsberg: I have multiple variable like var1, var2, var3 2014-03-23T03:54:55Z slyrus: I think he wants to combine two symbols into a single symbol prior to evaling it 2014-03-23T03:55:01Z AGinsberg: slyrus: Yes 2014-03-23T03:55:16Z beach: AGinsberg: You are confused. 2014-03-23T03:55:34Z AGinsberg: I don't think so 2014-03-23T03:56:01Z beach: AGinsberg: OK. 2014-03-23T03:57:07Z effy quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-23T03:57:14Z beach: AGinsberg: Your example suggests that you don't know much about how Lisp code is read and then evaluated. 2014-03-23T03:57:28Z AGinsberg: I probably don't 2014-03-23T03:57:53Z slyrus: (eval (read-from-string (concatenate 'string var1 var2))) might do what you want, but beach is hinting that that's probably a bad idea 2014-03-23T03:58:11Z slyrus: minus the whole nth thing, of course 2014-03-23T03:58:31Z effy joined #lisp 2014-03-23T03:59:18Z waa joined #lisp 2014-03-23T03:59:31Z ChanServ has set mode -o p_l 2014-03-23T03:59:53Z drmeister quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-03-23T04:00:28Z beach: slyrus: We have our groceries delivered by people who have a freezer in the truck! :) 2014-03-23T04:00:43Z beach: Not sure how that translates to SBCL build times, though. 2014-03-23T04:00:45Z AGinsberg: Why shouldn't I do it, beach ? 2014-03-23T04:00:50Z AGinsberg: Also, thanks slyrus 2014-03-23T04:00:52Z Colleen: ...Thus 2014-03-23T04:00:52Z Colleen: ...Thus 2014-03-23T04:01:39Z beach: AGinsberg: Because people who ask those questions usually try to accomplish things the wrong way. 2014-03-23T04:01:40Z e2xistz joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:02:21Z AGinsberg: Well, the other ways of doing it would be a hash table or alist, I think 2014-03-23T04:02:51Z beach: AGinsberg: But you didn't tell us what problem you are trying to solve, so it's hard to suggest something better. 2014-03-23T04:03:20Z slyrus: and hash tables are usually a good approach. eval less so. 2014-03-23T04:07:04Z koolkalang joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:07:05Z Holly25 joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:08:29Z Holly25 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-23T04:10:11Z koolkalang: Hi all - using clisp, new to lisp. Why does (member '(y) '((y))) return nil? 2014-03-23T04:10:36Z beach: clhs member 2014-03-23T04:10:36Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_member.htm 2014-03-23T04:10:37Z Colleen: Function MEMBER, MEMBER-IF, MEMBER-IF-NOT http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_mem_m.htm 2014-03-23T04:11:11Z beach: koolkalang: You need to pass it a :test function that returns true when lists are compared, like #'equal. 2014-03-23T04:11:33Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-23T04:11:41Z beach: koolkalang: If you read the documentation, you will find that MEMBER uses the function EQL by default. 2014-03-23T04:13:51Z zacts joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:14:15Z SeanTAllen quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2014-03-23T04:15:04Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-23T04:16:29Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-23T04:17:56Z cmpitg joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:18:18Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T04:18:22Z lisper29 joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:18:25Z neo007 joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:18:46Z lisper29 is now known as Guest71150 2014-03-23T04:18:48Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:18:56Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:19:21Z neo007: hi hackers there! what do you think about the chez scheme related to the haxe 2014-03-23T04:20:44Z neo007: may I say that chez scheme is use the same method as with the haxe, so that it can get a powerful complier to acheive performence? 2014-03-23T04:22:39Z impulse joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:23:35Z neo007: just like the invetor of Tcl saide, there is no way or hard to combine two different kind of language into one.for one is expressiveness one is the speed. But what haxe and ocaml acheived is largely due to the type systems. the complie technic in machine. 2014-03-23T04:24:12Z beach: neo007: This channel is dedicated to Common Lisp. 2014-03-23T04:24:56Z cheryllium quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T04:25:22Z zacts: what is the lisp newbies channel? 2014-03-23T04:25:28Z p_l: neo007: #scheme might have more people knowledgeable about Chez Scheme. I have no idea about Haxe other than "hearing about it once" 2014-03-23T04:25:32Z AGinsberg: zacts: I don't think there is one 2014-03-23T04:25:35Z neo007: well, the common lisp is in the same situation as with chez scheme, which two are in pratical use 2014-03-23T04:25:37Z zacts: AGinsberg: there was 2014-03-23T04:25:38Z nurv: anyone knows if abcl has or exists a function that simplifies java dispaching? 2014-03-23T04:26:04Z beach: neo007: And Common Lisp is a great example of pushing the envelope of language design as much as possible without sacrificing the possibility for the compiler to generate fast code. 2014-03-23T04:26:26Z p_l: neo007: Common Lisp is a language specified by standard -> individual implementations have a lot of freedom and vary a lot 2014-03-23T04:26:40Z AGinsberg: zacts: /msg alis list * -topic *lisp* 2014-03-23T04:26:40Z AGinsberg: ? 2014-03-23T04:27:24Z neo007 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T04:27:48Z neo007 joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:28:04Z zacts: AGinsberg: I'm not finding it. There was one about a year ago 2014-03-23T04:28:21Z beach: zacts: Many newbies ask questions here, which is fine as long as they are not questions that could be answered by reading the first few pages of a book or a tutorial. 2014-03-23T04:28:26Z AGinsberg: zacts: On freenode? 2014-03-23T04:29:48Z neo007: well, use common lisp actually take two steps, one is prototype programming, the other is optimize compiler. It is actually combine two language into one, so a lisper has a lot to learn . 2014-03-23T04:29:59Z QwertyDragon quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T04:30:09Z zacts: AGinsberg: indeed 2014-03-23T04:30:29Z zacts: beach: ok, cool 2014-03-23T04:30:39Z beach: neo007: It is hard to understand what you are trying to tell us. 2014-03-23T04:30:46Z neo007: a good lisper is identicall with an ocamler 2014-03-23T04:31:12Z nisstyre_: beach: although some design decisions are now obsolete afaict, like having different namespaces to efficiently look up names in the environment 2014-03-23T04:31:24Z nisstyre_: that may have provided speedups in the 80s 2014-03-23T04:31:29Z nisstyre_: but not really now 2014-03-23T04:32:15Z neo007: well, I am trying to say lisp or ocaml or chez scheme are both depend heavily on the type system or compiler technic. 2014-03-23T04:32:50Z beach: nisstyre_: What I am trying to say is that most languages either haven't even tried to push the envelope, or else they pushed it too far, so that there is no chance of ever writing a compiler that generates fast code. 2014-03-23T04:33:00Z beach: neo007: Good to know. 2014-03-23T04:34:17Z nisstyre_: beach: that's because they didn't think about it initially 2014-03-23T04:34:20Z nisstyre_: and just did whatever works 2014-03-23T04:34:22Z nisstyre_: e.g. Ruby, Python 2014-03-23T04:34:25Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T04:34:27Z neo007: complier technic is optimize technic, with the aid of type system, it unify the programming language world 2014-03-23T04:34:37Z nisstyre_: although I have to give Python a bit of credit, it does have a proper VM 2014-03-23T04:34:38Z QwertyDragon joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:35:18Z nurv: except for the global interpreter lock 2014-03-23T04:38:00Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:41:08Z neo007: why do common lisp not have a VM? 2014-03-23T04:41:33Z nisstyre_: you could use a VM 2014-03-23T04:41:41Z nisstyre_: there's nothing about the language stopping that 2014-03-23T04:42:00Z p_l: neo007: There's no standard one. Some are implemented as bytecoded virtual machines, some target specific other virtual machines 2014-03-23T04:42:32Z p_l: and technically SBCL has a VM too ;) 2014-03-23T04:43:04Z neo007: If common lisp had a VM like java, then it will be the common programming langague 2014-03-23T04:43:11Z p_l: neo007: untrue 2014-03-23T04:43:31Z neo007: any reason? 2014-03-23T04:43:44Z p_l: it's not VM that guarantees popularity 2014-03-23T04:44:28Z p_l: JVM got traction because of *huge* amount of support that propelled it in industry 2014-03-23T04:44:32Z neo007: but java gained popularity through its VM 2014-03-23T04:45:26Z neo007: yes, java do have support , but it did make a VM others lacks. 2014-03-23T04:45:59Z p_l: neo007: a lot of its popularity came through being bundled with Netscape Communicator, lots of push in industry, later on because of J2EE 2014-03-23T04:46:10Z neo007: why not lisp make a vm? if it has a vm, it can build a new system on top of that vm. 2014-03-23T04:47:18Z nurv: abcl uses the JVM 2014-03-23T04:47:50Z ggole joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:47:51Z neo007: whatever it is , it can not acheiv success without the JVM 2014-03-23T04:47:53Z p_l: While the promise of JVM's portability definitely helped Java along, it was not that much different from other languages except for this novel little thing called Java Applets, which made it an interesting thing for people to try 2014-03-23T04:48:55Z p_l: and JVM presence on desktop outside of a) university affiliated programs b) enterprise heavyweight, got horrible blow in the Sun vs. MS legal war 2014-03-23T04:49:24Z neo007: abcl uses JVM, but it makes things worse, like its name a heavy bear armed with a slow JVM. 2014-03-23T04:49:43Z p_l: The reason my current project uses JVM is not related to JVM outside of "there are complete libs I can reuse" 2014-03-23T04:50:20Z p_l: neo007: in industry, a lot of decisions like "let's use java" stem from things your boss read in the glossy in-flight magazine when he last flown 2014-03-23T04:51:02Z p_l: by now, Java simply has huge mass of code that propels it forward, and certain complete products keeping it relevant 2014-03-23T04:52:02Z TerranceWarrior joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:52:10Z p_l: JVM's portable bytecode is actually minor thing, sometimes even nonexistant because you can't underestimate the capacity of programmers to write a program that requires *exact* copy of their environment to run 2014-03-23T04:52:21Z neo007: yes , controll is everything, for the JVM 2014-03-23T04:53:03Z p_l once observed an IBM Engineer fight for a day with an in-house application that absolutely needed Sun Java 1.5.xxxxxx, exact versions of Oracle OCI libraries, and exact version of IE6 2014-03-23T04:53:37Z cmpitg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T04:54:43Z p_l: neo007: in reality a lot of customers won't ever care what your code is written in, as long as it works. For desktop applications, JVM is often a problem because of that, since it has to be downloaded as an extra 2014-03-23T04:54:52Z neo007: is it means a lot inconvenionce? 2014-03-23T04:54:56Z p_l: yes 2014-03-23T04:55:41Z p_l: bigger programs often simply ship their own copy of JVM (along with, in extreme cases, own copies of Perl, Tcl/Tk, and I once stumbled upon a linker and object files) 2014-03-23T04:55:54Z neo007: it seems that jvm is a useless thing but have some value. 2014-03-23T04:56:23Z p_l: it's not useless, it has some value, but it's not a deciding factor for success 2014-03-23T04:56:45Z p_l: it can be a factor when you are attacking the JVM ecosystem (like Clojure does) 2014-03-23T04:57:38Z neo007: yes , truth 2014-03-23T04:57:45Z p_l: but that's similar to how C and JVM attacks mainframe COBOL stronghold, because of easy integration between CICS transactions and rest of the system (if you use WebSphere MQ) 2014-03-23T04:58:22Z waa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T04:58:32Z cmpitg joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:58:48Z yacks joined #lisp 2014-03-23T04:59:40Z neo007: is cobol the old langauge? 2014-03-23T04:59:46Z p_l: neo007: it's old and cranky 2014-03-23T04:59:56Z p_l: and it will shout at you in ALL CAPS to get off its lawn 2014-03-23T05:00:19Z neo007: but its application seems strong enough 2014-03-23T05:00:42Z p_l: (though assemblers, FORTRAN and Lisp are older among the still surviving languages) 2014-03-23T05:01:23Z Whitesqu_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T05:01:38Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-23T05:01:46Z neo007: all are the transform of a complier 2014-03-23T05:02:10Z p_l: neo007: pretty much every language is 2014-03-23T05:02:18Z p_l: + its runtime 2014-03-23T05:02:25Z p_l: (which is non-trivial) 2014-03-23T05:02:38Z p_l: JVM counts as significant part of Java's runtime 2014-03-23T05:02:54Z p_l: CLR is the equivalent in .NET 2014-03-23T05:03:02Z neo007: indeed, I think the macro system in common lisp is just a special compiler. 2014-03-23T05:03:08Z wheelsucker: COBOl doesn't have a stronghold. It only has size. 2014-03-23T05:03:51Z p_l: wheelsucker: that said, I think I'd take IBM's ILE COBOL over Java sometimes... ;> 2014-03-23T05:04:31Z wheelsucker: I never liked COBOL. I stuck with PL/I. 2014-03-23T05:04:44Z p_l: hehe 2014-03-23T05:05:13Z wheelsucker: design a language even idiots can use, and only idiots will want to use it. 2014-03-23T05:05:26Z p_l: true 2014-03-23T05:05:38Z AGinsberg: Python? 2014-03-23T05:05:54Z neo007: what about the TCL/tk, haxe and chez scheme both use it. 2014-03-23T05:06:16Z p_l: neo007: Tcl... is weird 2014-03-23T05:06:24Z neo007: it seems tcl's most acheivement is TK. 2014-03-23T05:06:33Z p_l: neo007: it's most remembered for that, true 2014-03-23T05:06:53Z neo007: but it is said to be a not well impleneted lisp 2014-03-23T05:07:49Z p_l: neo007: when you have a language as old as Lisp, you get a lot of such comparisons, IMO 2014-03-23T05:08:49Z beach: p_l: I admire your patience. 2014-03-23T05:09:14Z theos quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T05:09:40Z p_l: beach: I think it comes from knowing just how bad I sometimes have been 2014-03-23T05:09:58Z vivalaradio quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T05:09:59Z beach: p_l: "bad" in what way? 2014-03-23T05:10:07Z theos joined #lisp 2014-03-23T05:10:16Z p_l: beach: annoying :) 2014-03-23T05:10:24Z beach: I see. 2014-03-23T05:10:27Z p_l: (even if not there, generally) 2014-03-23T05:10:34Z Vicfred quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-23T05:10:38Z beach: p_l: you are overcompensating! :) 2014-03-23T05:11:31Z p_l: beach: I think it pays off in the end to be patient and helpful. So when I can, I try :) 2014-03-23T05:11:34Z beach: p_l: I personally don't mind annoying people as long as they have a point, like Naggum or RMS. 2014-03-23T05:12:10Z beach: p_l: That's an excellent resolution. 2014-03-23T05:12:57Z neo007: well, god always behave like that. 2014-03-23T05:13:34Z beach: neo007: You need to start respecting the channel topic. 2014-03-23T05:13:36Z p_l: neo007: Tcl origins have a lot involved with being language to "augment" or extend tools, which required a lot of plasticity 2014-03-23T05:14:07Z p_l: neo007: since Lisp has similar qualities in typical implementations/dialects, the comparisons tend to start there 2014-03-23T05:15:33Z p_l: (and given that writing GUIs was often annoying, reaching to Tk was obvious shortcut for everyone at certain point in time) 2014-03-23T05:16:20Z neo007: thank you, p_l. a gentle man with high character 2014-03-23T05:16:24Z p_l: (even in Common Lisp, look up Ltk) 2014-03-23T05:18:21Z TerranceWarrior quit (Quit: Lost 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connection) 2014-03-23T07:53:49Z Bike joined #lisp 2014-03-23T07:56:05Z gropr joined #lisp 2014-03-23T07:56:15Z gropr: hi everyone 2014-03-23T07:56:19Z gropr: BITCH BITCH BITCH 2014-03-23T07:56:22Z gropr: sorry 2014-03-23T07:56:34Z gropr: i have tourettes syndrome NIGGER ASSHOLE CUNT 2014-03-23T07:56:39Z gropr: please forgive me 2014-03-23T07:56:50Z gropr: SORRY SORRY SORRY SORRY SORRY SORRY 2014-03-23T07:57:12Z ChanServ has set mode +o p_l 2014-03-23T07:57:14Z p_l has set mode +b *!*76615fb6@*.118.97.95.182 2014-03-23T07:57:14Z gropr [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (gropr) 2014-03-23T07:58:54Z prxq_ is now known as prxq 2014-03-23T07:59:20Z kliph joined #lisp 2014-03-23T08:03:39Z kliph quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T08:06:53Z ChanServ has set mode -o p_l 2014-03-23T08:07:01Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-03-23T08:07:12Z p_l: eh. Internet dulled my empathy, I think -_-; 2014-03-23T08:14:49Z seangrove joined #lisp 2014-03-23T08:15:10Z zophy joined #lisp 2014-03-23T08:17:39Z therik: what was that 2014-03-23T08:19:44Z p_l: I'd like to say that I am sure it was a troll, but that would severely overestimate my surety 2014-03-23T08:22:35Z dandersen joined #lisp 2014-03-23T08:24:53Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T08:27:42Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-23T08:31:07Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-23T08:33:57Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-03-23T08:34:17Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-23T08:34:27Z Vutral quit (Changing host) 2014-03-23T08:34:27Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-23T08:38:05Z dandersen quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-23T08:38:59Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T08:39:00Z ggole: The chances that was not a troll are pretty minimal 2014-03-23T08:49:30Z dandersen joined #lisp 2014-03-23T08:52:26Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-03-23T08:54:02Z beach: p_l: I agree with what you said a while ago, I really don't understand some people. 2014-03-23T08:54:52Z zajn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T08:57:07Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-23T08:58:03Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-23T08:58:42Z pnpuff: Hi all. Sorry but I have a question and after some researches I've not found a solution so I'm asking for help. Anyone know if would be possible to execute ("load") Fortran 90 or more recent code from CL? 2014-03-23T08:59:04Z p_l: pnpuff: as in linking code written in Fortran? 2014-03-23T08:59:38Z foreignFunction joined #lisp 2014-03-23T09:02:20Z pnpuff: p_l: I know only about f2cl, but it seems not useful with more recent Fortran code 2014-03-23T09:03:01Z pnpuff: I've read on franz.com about the possibility of use a ffi 2014-03-23T09:03:13Z p_l: no, for *that* kind you'd need a full Fortran compiler in CL. However, it should be possible (with some massaging) to load fortran DLLs with CFFI 2014-03-23T09:03:49Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-23T09:04:34Z p_l: pnpuff: I'd search for documentation on calling Fortran 90 code from C, then apropriately use CFFI to replicate the same calls 2014-03-23T09:05:01Z pnpuff: p_l: ok, thanks 2014-03-23T09:08:51Z jewel joined #lisp 2014-03-23T09:10:00Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2014-03-23T09:11:01Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-03-23T09:14:58Z Code_Man` joined #lisp 2014-03-23T09:17:53Z nisstyre_ quit (Quit: bai) 2014-03-23T09:18:21Z nffff joined #lisp 2014-03-23T09:22:49Z nug700 quit (Quit: bye) 2014-03-23T09:23:24Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-23T09:26:01Z angavrilov quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-23T09:28:31Z pranavrc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T09:32:27Z catesloveu joined #lisp 2014-03-23T09:32:45Z catesloveu: how hard is it to learn lisp? 2014-03-23T09:33:03Z beach: catesloveu: About as hard as learning anything else. 2014-03-23T09:33:26Z catesloveu: is it as learning to masturbate? 2014-03-23T09:33:44Z beach: *sigh* 2014-03-23T09:33:57Z ChanServ has set mode +o p_l 2014-03-23T09:34:04Z catesloveu left #lisp 2014-03-23T09:35:09Z bjz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-23T09:35:37Z bjz joined #lisp 2014-03-23T09:37:40Z p_l: what is it with us taking in so many trolls? 2014-03-23T09:37:56Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T09:37:57Z beach: p_l: Do you think there are more of them here than elsewhere? 2014-03-23T09:37:59Z pjb: They're jealous. 2014-03-23T09:38:08Z pjb: Yes, more, of this kind. 2014-03-23T09:38:14Z Shinmera: Why is the "how difficult is it to learn lisp" question asked so often in here anyway 2014-03-23T09:38:58Z p_l: Shinmera: the world of IT runs on myths, half truths, lies and that's the fairy dust on the top of the iceberg made of crap 2014-03-23T09:39:15Z Shinmera: Heh 2014-03-23T09:40:25Z loicbsd joined #lisp 2014-03-23T09:40:27Z p_l: so from the sea of misinformation people find some small nuggets that make them wonder enough to actually look into Lisp, at the same time being full of informaton about how it is supposedly hard 2014-03-23T09:41:35Z Shinmera: Hmm, looking at the chatlogs it seems I've joined just after a wave of lame trolls. 2014-03-23T09:42:03Z p_l: well, neo007 wasn't much of a troll, more like poor lost soul 2014-03-23T09:42:23Z p_l: the rest... not so much 2014-03-23T09:42:25Z Shinmera: p_l: Oddly enough I never got the impression that lisp was difficult before I learned it. It only looked vastly different and thus was interesting. 2014-03-23T09:42:50Z p_l: Shinmera: I suspect it depends on what kind of material you encounter 2014-03-23T09:43:28Z p_l: I fought with Scheme for quite long time, then I played with Haskell, which actually made PCL easier to understand 2014-03-23T09:43:37Z beach: Shinmera: To a lot of people, "vastly different" implies "threatening" rather than "interesting". 2014-03-23T09:43:44Z p_l: and PCL let me learn CL easily 2014-03-23T09:44:04Z Shinmera: beach: Oh, right, yeah. 2014-03-23T09:44:21Z p_l: Shinmera: I personally believe that a wide, broad, even if not detailed knowledge of computing from bottom to the top also helps in understanding such things 2014-03-23T09:44:32Z Shinmera: Haskell is still on my "languages to learn" todo list. 2014-03-23T09:44:44Z Shinmera: p_l: I agree with that. 2014-03-23T09:45:27Z p_l: Shinmera: when compiler is not this "piece of magic" but something that you can visualize, understanding things like certain "uncommon" semantics (macros, reader macros, etc) becomes much easier 2014-03-23T09:45:32Z p_l: etc. etc. 2014-03-23T09:46:03Z Shinmera: Yeah it definitely helped that I looked into parsing, lexing and compiling a bit (by chance) before picking up lisp. 2014-03-23T09:46:12Z catesloveu joined #lisp 2014-03-23T09:46:28Z catesloveu: fuck you p_l 2014-03-23T09:46:33Z p_l has set mode +b *!*4c4ada3c@*.76.74.218.60 2014-03-23T09:46:33Z catesloveu [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (catesloveu) 2014-03-23T09:46:51Z p_l: "exit stage, chased by bear" 2014-03-23T09:51:13Z pjb: p_l: that should be a lesson for you: ban them even if they quit first! 2014-03-23T09:52:09Z p_l: pjb: I'm tempted to just wholesale ban freenode's webchat 2014-03-23T09:52:11Z varjag_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T09:54:00Z p_l: given how often people who need the kickban are using it 2014-03-23T09:54:52Z p_l: we already quiet tor users, apparently 2014-03-23T09:55:30Z thepreacher joined #lisp 2014-03-23T09:59:21Z p_l has set mode +b *!*@*76.74.218.60 2014-03-23T09:59:45Z p_l has set mode -b *!*4c4ada3c@*.76.74.218.60 2014-03-23T10:01:15Z thepreacher quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-23T10:02:44Z wakeup joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:02:51Z wakeup: Good morning everybody 2014-03-23T10:03:04Z beach: Hello wakeup. 2014-03-23T10:03:14Z Lara18 joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:03:26Z wakeup: I have a long running lisp process (thread?), and about once a month it freezes. 2014-03-23T10:03:28Z Lara18 [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (Lara18) 2014-03-23T10:03:42Z p_l: wakeup: anything specific about how it freezes? 2014-03-23T10:04:00Z wakeup: p_l: I am trying to find that out 2014-03-23T10:04:04Z guiambros__ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:04:13Z wakeup: My guess is its blocking on something. 2014-03-23T10:04:38Z kbc quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T10:04:56Z wakeup: first I thought I didn't supply a timeout to drakma and it just waited for a request that never finished, but now I do and its the same problem 2014-03-23T10:05:00Z wakeup: the other threads in the lisp continue to run just fine 2014-03-23T10:05:12Z wakeup: I am also interested in ways to debug this. 2014-03-23T10:05:49Z wakeup: My next step would probably be to run the server with a swank server, and poke around next time it happens. 2014-03-23T10:05:49Z p_l: hmm. If you have other threads running fine, it might be possible to attach the lisp debugger there 2014-03-23T10:06:00Z p_l: though I haven't actually done that 2014-03-23T10:07:02Z Colleen_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:07:29Z guiambros_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-23T10:07:30Z _zxq9_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:07:55Z oleo: morning 2014-03-23T10:07:55Z zxq9 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T10:08:26Z Colleen quit (Quit: See you, space cowboy...) 2014-03-23T10:08:26Z Colleen_ is now known as Colleen 2014-03-23T10:08:28Z ktx quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T10:09:03Z ktx joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:12:06Z kbc joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:14:21Z nisstyre quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-23T10:14:34Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:15:31Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:22:49Z effy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T10:23:34Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:23:56Z oleo: it's gcing maybe..... 2014-03-23T10:25:04Z mmkstarr quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet) 2014-03-23T10:30:28Z vivalaradio joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:33:25Z nand1 joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:45:37Z angavrilov joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:45:56Z splittist: beach: Did I understand correctly that you're not coming to Paris? 2014-03-23T10:50:53Z ianmcorvidae|alt joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:51:40Z wakeup is going :) 2014-03-23T10:52:05Z justinmcp_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:52:14Z beach: splittist: Yes, I can't make it. 2014-03-23T10:52:26Z beach: splittist: But I will be in Montreal and Berlin. 2014-03-23T10:52:45Z kiuma_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T10:53:13Z felideon quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T10:53:14Z ianmcorvidae quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T10:53:14Z Kruppe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T10:53:22Z axion: does anyone have any examples of using parenscript to generate js that sends back a call to hunchentoot to call a function that updates part of a web page? 2014-03-23T10:53:56Z Jayk97 joined #lisp 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or library exist to do that. 2014-03-23T11:28:52Z deleuz joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:29:50Z Malice quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:50Z oleo quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:50Z Kruppe quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:50Z |3b| quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:50Z ehu quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:50Z smull quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:51Z zacharias quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:51Z ktx quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:51Z lisper29 quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:52Z araujo quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:52Z nuba quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:52Z flip214_ quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:52Z igorw quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:52Z Nshag quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:53Z saarin quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:53Z luis quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:53Z Kabaka_ quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:53Z jackdaniel quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:53Z cross quit (*.net *.split) 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vaporatorius quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2014-03-23T11:37:31Z jackdaniel joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:37:39Z jasom joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:37:50Z pok joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:38:51Z smull joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:39:38Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:39:55Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:40:18Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:42:36Z wakeup: I just grabbed a pretty cool domain (imho): http://interstellar.ventures/ 2014-03-23T11:42:47Z wakeup: intergalactic was taken :( 2014-03-23T11:43:31Z theos: try extragalactic 2014-03-23T11:44:33Z ykm joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:44:40Z elfenixtorres joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:44:45Z wakeup: already paid the bill 2014-03-23T11:45:01Z Jubb joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:45:11Z wakeup: its gonna be INTERSTELLAR VENTURES Ltd. 2014-03-23T11:45:32Z wakeup: like it 2014-03-23T11:45:52Z Kruppe joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:45:52Z |3b|` joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:45:52Z sshirokov joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:45:52Z cpt_nemo joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:45:52Z 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Slots accessing is also just more long-winded. 2014-03-23T11:54:17Z Shinmera: ykm: Writing wise I mean 2014-03-23T11:56:55Z d3f joined #lisp 2014-03-23T11:57:33Z wakeup: ykm: Also, compare an interface with an implementation 2014-03-23T12:04:41Z Kabaka_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T12:04:50Z splittist: axion: is there something in smackjack that might help? https://github.com/aarvid/SmackJack 2014-03-23T12:06:16Z axion: thanks i have looked over it. i'm trying to do it with ht-ajax right now 2014-03-23T12:06:24Z axion: looks promising 2014-03-23T12:08:14Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-23T12:09:19Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-23T12:09:41Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2014-03-23T12:19:45Z |3b|` is now known as |3b| 2014-03-23T12:22:04Z Colleen quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T12:23:15Z Colleen joined #lisp 2014-03-23T12:23:23Z Colleen quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T12:25:03Z Colleen joined #lisp 2014-03-23T12:28:16Z fiveop joined #lisp 2014-03-23T12:28:41Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-03-23T12:29:20Z SeanTAllen joined #lisp 2014-03-23T12:36:30Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2014-03-23T12:38:32Z Nizumzen quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-03-23T12:39:20Z sauerkrause quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T12:42:20Z pjb: wakeup: So do you have seed money to build a lifter based space ship or some other kind of propulsion? 2014-03-23T12:42:31Z pjb: wakeup: do you need a lisper to write spacionics systems? 2014-03-23T12:43:26Z hiroaki joined #lisp 2014-03-23T12:43:39Z pjb: ykm: for the same reason you should prefer property access in Objective-C over methods or direct field access. 2014-03-23T12:43:45Z hiroakip quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-23T12:45:07Z pjb: ykm: accessors abstracts away properties, using the same syntax and mechanism to access them as to access any other method of the object, so that you can easily change the implementation of the properties or of the methods. One method that is too slow computing can be changed into a cached slot. One slot that is seldom used but takes a lot of memory space, can be replaced by a method that computes it when needed. 2014-03-23T12:45:41Z pjb: In summary: it fits the functional abstraction mechanism. 2014-03-23T12:47:08Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-23T12:47:30Z Quadrescence: pjb, but then it will be too slow, because now you need a funcall! 2014-03-23T12:51:48Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2014-03-23T12:53:02Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-23T12:55:07Z sauerkra- quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2014-03-23T12:57:03Z sauerkrause joined #lisp 2014-03-23T12:57:05Z foreignFunction quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-23T12:57:13Z hiroaki quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T12:58:02Z lispoon joined #lisp 2014-03-23T12:59:25Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:00:29Z foreignFunction joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:01:27Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:02:10Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:02:55Z Twipply joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:10:31Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-23T13:11:29Z lispoon left #lisp 2014-03-23T13:11:42Z Ralt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T13:12:08Z sid_cypher: is a funcall per access costly nowadays? if the part is that performance-critical, write it in C-like lisp or C, methinks :) 2014-03-23T13:12:13Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:12:49Z beach: ykm: What pjb was saying is the essential answer. It has to do with abstraction. But let me also confirm what Shinmera is saying; in general accessors are faster. 2014-03-23T13:12:59Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:15:23Z nffff quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:15:24Z ggole joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:16:18Z Ralt quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:17:28Z vivalaradio joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:17:33Z oconnore_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:18:20Z hitecnologys quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-23T13:21:33Z beach: sid_cypher: I believe a funcall can be pretty cheap. 2014-03-23T13:22:14Z ktx quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:22:15Z |3b| quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T13:22:15Z m00n quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:22:16Z Kruppe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:22:16Z xristos quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:22:17Z oconnore quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:22:17Z |3b| joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:22:18Z ConstantineXVI quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:22:19Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:22:19Z |3b|` joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:22:19Z |3b| quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T13:22:44Z sbryant joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:22:47Z sid_cypher: beach: yeah, that's what i think as well. I was commenting on Quadrescence's statement, but he left. 2014-03-23T13:23:03Z beach: sid_cypher: Yes, I know. 2014-03-23T13:23:38Z Kruppe joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:23:39Z |3b|` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T13:23:39Z |3b|` joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:23:46Z xristos joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:23:49Z m00n joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:23:52Z ktx joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:24:05Z ConstantineXVI joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:24:11Z xristos is now known as Guest74087 2014-03-23T13:27:54Z |3b|` is now known as |3b| 2014-03-23T13:30:34Z foreignFunction1 joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:30:49Z Guest79476 is now known as lisper29 2014-03-23T13:31:05Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:31:08Z foreignFunction quit (Disconnected by services) 2014-03-23T13:31:13Z foreignFunction1 is now known as foreignFunction 2014-03-23T13:33:56Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:34:39Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:34:39Z pranavrc quit (Changing host) 2014-03-23T13:34:39Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:34:51Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:35:43Z nha_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:35:57Z cpape joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:36:20Z beach: I haven't checked SBCL source, but I assume they use the following trick: For each slot named S, define a generic function named S and one called (SETF S). Then have a compiler macro that changes (SLOT-VALUE 'S) into (S ) and (SETF (SLOT-VALUE 'S) ) into (SETF (S ) ) so that using SLOT-VALUE with a constant slot name is as fast as using the accessor. 2014-03-23T13:37:05Z pjb: This is not possible. 2014-03-23T13:37:20Z beach: Oh? 2014-03-23T13:37:35Z pjb: Because calling (slot-value o 's) cannot call (setf s) because (setf s) may be overloaded. 2014-03-23T13:38:00Z pjb: It might do it with an internal function however, used both to implement slot-value 's and s. 2014-03-23T13:38:23Z sid_cypher: pjb: what if it called sb-something:atomic-setq ? 2014-03-23T13:38:28Z beach: You mean the name S? Sure, you have to use a gensym. 2014-03-23T13:38:52Z pjb: ok. 2014-03-23T13:39:14Z beach: sid_cypher: The main issue here is to avoid runtime lookup of the slot name. 2014-03-23T13:40:01Z sid_cypher: beach: yeah, i misunderstood the potentially overloaded thing, my bad. 2014-03-23T13:40:29Z Praise joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:42:08Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:42:20Z Code_Man` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:42:24Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:43:04Z Asgeir joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:43:50Z beach: pjb: So I guess one would keep a hash table which is consulted only at compile time, and which maps slots names to accessor names. 2014-03-23T13:44:17Z pjb: It can also just generate it inline each time. It's just a couple of instructions. 2014-03-23T13:44:24Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Exit IRC/Hiberate) 2014-03-23T13:44:27Z pjb: No need for a function. 2014-03-23T13:44:31Z beach: Generate what? 2014-03-23T13:44:37Z pjb: the code to access the slot. 2014-03-23T13:45:00Z pjb: There's only the problem of redefining the class, so it might have to recompile the code to access the slots. 2014-03-23T13:45:00Z beach: I don't think that is possible. 2014-03-23T13:45:08Z beach: Exactly. 2014-03-23T13:45:21Z swflint joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:45:45Z sid_cypher: if is a constant and known at compile time, you can optimize however you want, right? 2014-03-23T13:45:56Z sid_cypher: if not, runtime lookup it is. 2014-03-23T13:46:05Z beach: pjb: And you can't know the position of the slot at compile time, because it depends on the runtime value of the object. 2014-03-23T13:46:14Z pjb: The constant can change class, or its class (or superclass) can have theirs slots changed. 2014-03-23T13:47:11Z beach: sid_cypher: It would be very unusual for the object to be a constant known at compile time. 2014-03-23T13:48:10Z beach: sid_cypher: And, as pjb points out, even a known object can change dynamically. 2014-03-23T13:48:21Z ggole: A jit could do it: on the other hand, a jit doesn't even need the slot name to be visible in the source (only for it to be invariant in practice). 2014-03-23T13:48:27Z sid_cypher: oh. it was an object, and i was thinking about the slot. disregard me then :) 2014-03-23T13:48:34Z pjb: So in total, it is probably easier to put the code in a function, instead of opencoding it everywhere. 2014-03-23T13:48:46Z beach: pjb: Yes. 2014-03-23T13:49:49Z beach: ggole: It would still have to determine that the class of the object has not been altered in some way. 2014-03-23T13:50:03Z lyanchih__ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:50:45Z ggole: Guards are perfect for that 2014-03-23T13:50:47Z Code_Man` joined #lisp 2014-03-23T13:51:07Z ggole: You can make as aggressive an assumption you like as long as you have a guard and fallback 2014-03-23T13:51:19Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:51:31Z ggole: (And in practice OoO makes them very cheap.) 2014-03-23T13:53:42Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:02:39Z therik quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-23T14:03:42Z therik joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:09:13Z axion: is it an error that the last line of this file sends a string with an xml content type despite being able to change it with the accessor content-type? i have been debugging my ajax for an hour and just discovered this and cant make sense as to why it seemingly overrides the type anyway: http://martin-loetzsch.de/ht-simple-ajax/ht-simple-ajax.lisp 2014-03-23T14:12:38Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:13:06Z yrk quit (Changing host) 2014-03-23T14:13:06Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:13:42Z Gooder joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:18:22Z huangho joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:19:02Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:21:34Z Gooder quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T14:22:23Z huangho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-23T14:23:06Z kliph joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:23:44Z Ralt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T14:24:08Z jonh quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-23T14:24:18Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:24:22Z Kruppe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T14:24:22Z ktx quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T14:24:22Z ConstantineXVI quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T14:24:22Z |3b|` joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:24:23Z Kruppe joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:24:48Z junke joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:25:19Z elfenixtorres quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T14:25:27Z vantage|home joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:26:24Z abeaumont_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T14:27:43Z huangho joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:28:18Z Ralt quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T14:28:19Z huangho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-23T14:28:54Z Guest74087 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T14:28:55Z |3b| quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T14:28:55Z xristos joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:29:42Z Kruppe is now known as Guest16035 2014-03-23T14:29:42Z xristos is now known as Guest33174 2014-03-23T14:29:59Z ktx joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:30:09Z ConstantineXVI joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:30:16Z trebor_home joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:31:07Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-23T14:31:08Z pnpuff left #lisp 2014-03-23T14:33:54Z mc40 quit (Quit: mc40) 2014-03-23T14:34:34Z mc40 joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:37:28Z brandonz joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:39:24Z kpreid quit (Quit: Quitting) 2014-03-23T14:39:39Z junke quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T14:39:43Z kpreid joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:42:24Z nha_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-23T14:42:38Z Code_Man` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-23T14:55:25Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-23T14:58:17Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T14:58:54Z Jesin quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T15:00:17Z Ralt quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-23T15:01:13Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T15:09:15Z brandonz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-23T15:14:21Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-23T15:14:27Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-03-23T15:14:28Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-23T15:15:03Z MoALTz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-23T15:19:50Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-23T15:23:18Z mksan__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T15:23:26Z mksan_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-23T15:23:50Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T15:24:32Z archonix quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T15:24:46Z mksan joined #lisp 2014-03-23T15:25:16Z mksan_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T15:27:21Z junke joined #lisp 2014-03-23T15:31:04Z ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 2014-03-23T15:36:58Z kliph quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T15:37:34Z Okasu joined #lisp 2014-03-23T15:39:50Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-23T15:40:09Z brandonz_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T15:42:58Z CrazyWoods quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T15:45:06Z CrazyWoods joined #lisp 2014-03-23T15:45:58Z brandonz_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T15:46:29Z wakeup: pjb: regarding http://interstellar.ventures , no its nothing to do with space travel ;) just lisp consulting 2014-03-23T15:46:51Z wakeup: writing software for spaceships would be cool though 2014-03-23T15:47:17Z vivalaradio quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T15:47:21Z wakeup: wouldnt want to be responsible for bugs during manned flights tho 2014-03-23T15:47:28Z oleo: lol 2014-03-23T15:48:21Z oleo: put a verminator for each bug.... 2014-03-23T15:48:26Z oleo: lol 2014-03-23T15:48:39Z wakeup: I wouldn't care if some trillion dollar drone crashed because of some stupid bug of mine, that would be the cost of business 2014-03-23T15:49:19Z wakeup: but generally speaking, would you really want to be responsible for life support software? :/ 2014-03-23T15:49:21Z LiamH: http://www.flownet.com/gat/jpl-lisp.html 2014-03-23T15:49:54Z wakeup: hah got to read that 2014-03-23T15:51:06Z LiamH: By Erann Gatt = Ron Garrett 2014-03-23T15:51:14Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-23T15:51:22Z foreignFunction quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-23T15:51:32Z przl joined #lisp 2014-03-23T15:55:30Z gravicappa quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-23T15:58:41Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-03-23T15:59:47Z junke quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T16:04:14Z kliph joined #lisp 2014-03-23T16:06:53Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2014-03-23T16:08:02Z oleo: jpl gave the curbs to lisp! 2014-03-23T16:08:08Z oleo: lol 2014-03-23T16:10:58Z vantage|home quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T16:11:11Z hiroakip quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-23T16:11:58Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T16:13:29Z axion: splittist: thanks again. ht-ajax is old and very buggy. ht-simple-ajax is so simple it doesn't even work as intended, and smackjack did what i needed :) 2014-03-23T16:15:18Z Ralt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T16:16:50Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2014-03-23T16:18:44Z [SLB] quit (Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt) 2014-03-23T16:20:44Z [SLB] joined #lisp 2014-03-23T16:24:08Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec) 2014-03-23T16:24:28Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-03-23T16:25:37Z lyanchih__ quit (Quit: lyanchih__) 2014-03-23T16:25:59Z lyanchih_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T16:26:57Z zarul quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-23T16:27:03Z fourier joined #lisp 2014-03-23T16:28:59Z shridhar joined #lisp 2014-03-23T16:29:58Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2014-03-23T16:31:45Z |3b|` is now known as |3b| 2014-03-23T16:32:53Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-03-23T16:34:42Z slyrus_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T16:35:06Z pnpuff left #lisp 2014-03-23T16:40:06Z klltkr joined #lisp 2014-03-23T16:49:11Z splittist: axion: yay! 2014-03-23T16:49:29Z ChanServ has set mode -o p_l 2014-03-23T16:52:52Z peterhil quit (Quit: Must not waste too much time here...) 2014-03-23T16:53:20Z xani joined #lisp 2014-03-23T16:55:50Z fiveop: I have a problem with a compile error in SBCL that I get if I use a certain function in the code, but not if I replace it with a different function: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141758 2014-03-23T16:56:12Z fiveop: I tried to make the example as small as possible, so it doesn't look like any useful code anymore :) 2014-03-23T16:57:48Z fiveop: I don't understand the warning at all. Where is there a zero arg function in the one case and not in the other. (or where comes the argument from in the one case, while in the other there is none). 2014-03-23T17:01:30Z bgs100 joined #lisp 2014-03-23T17:03:03Z archonix joined #lisp 2014-03-23T17:06:42Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-23T17:08:03Z mksan_ quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-23T17:09:22Z wakeup: fiveop: whats with the :NO-ERROR case? 2014-03-23T17:09:51Z nha_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T17:11:02Z mksan quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-23T17:11:36Z wakeup: for me on CCL it needs to accept a parameter 2014-03-23T17:11:51Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-23T17:11:58Z fiveop: in both cases? 2014-03-23T17:12:29Z zarul joined #lisp 2014-03-23T17:13:09Z wakeup: Nope only the :no-error case 2014-03-23T17:13:14Z wakeup: I also get a warning: 2014-03-23T17:13:19Z jonh joined #lisp 2014-03-23T17:13:21Z wakeup: ;Compiler warnings : 2014-03-23T17:13:21Z wakeup: ; In an anonymous lambda form inside an anonymous lambda form: Unused lexical variable X 2014-03-23T17:13:29Z wakeup: thats the arg of the :no-error case 2014-03-23T17:13:30Z wakeup: weird 2014-03-23T17:13:54Z wakeup: also only needs the parameter when the clause is activated 2014-03-23T17:14:35Z fiveop: it compiles with (:no-error (a) (declare (ignore a))) in the second case 2014-03-23T17:14:49Z wakeup: (handler-case (1+ 1) 2014-03-23T17:14:49Z wakeup: (:no-error (x) (1+ x))) 2014-03-23T17:14:49Z wakeup: => 3 2014-03-23T17:14:49Z fiveop: I still don't get why I get the warning in one case and not in the other 2014-03-23T17:14:51Z wakeup: heh 2014-03-23T17:15:05Z |3b|: "If execution of expression returns normally and a no-error-clause does exist, the values returned are used as arguments to the function described by constructing (lambda lambda-list form*) from the no-error-clause," 2014-03-23T17:15:30Z wakeup: makes sense 2014-03-23T17:15:38Z wakeup: didnt even know it existed, cool 2014-03-23T17:15:43Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-23T17:16:05Z wakeup: oh nvm the waring, obvious 2014-03-23T17:17:11Z fiveop: So overall, the problem is that it probably should signal a warning in the first case too. 2014-03-23T17:17:12Z wakeup: fiveop: if in doubt, compiler smartness? 2014-03-23T17:17:34Z wakeup: well in the first case the clause will never be executed 2014-03-23T17:17:47Z Code_Man` joined #lisp 2014-03-23T17:17:55Z wakeup: maybe it even gets discarded 2014-03-23T17:18:04Z fiveop: or rather it knows at compile time that it won't 2014-03-23T17:18:08Z fiveop: in the second it won't either 2014-03-23T17:18:26Z fiveop: because signal will call the same make-instance method with the same args 2014-03-23T17:19:45Z |3b|: signal might transfer control to handler though 2014-03-23T17:19:49Z wakeup: but the first case (said second before sry), doesnt signal 2014-03-23T17:20:40Z fiveop: Of course it does. Just to make sure we understand each other: make-instance is the first case and signal the second. 2014-03-23T17:20:53Z wakeup: so the rest of make-instance gets passed to (:no-error () (list)) 2014-03-23T17:21:26Z wakeup: oh wait the init form 2014-03-23T17:21:28Z fiveop: make-instance will evaluate the initform for slot which is (error 'test-error) 2014-03-23T17:21:38Z wakeup: hmm 2014-03-23T17:22:36Z |3b|: also, " make-condition, not make-instance, must be used to create condition objects explicitly. " 2014-03-23T17:22:42Z wakeup: on CCL it both returns NIL 2014-03-23T17:23:23Z wakeup: there we go 2014-03-23T17:23:42Z brandonz_ joined #lisp 2014-03-23T17:26:52Z fiveop: Since I want to ignore the value anyway in case it succeeds, I'll go with (:no-error (&rest args) (declare (ignore args)) ...). 2014-03-23T17:27:03Z fiveop: It works and looks correct. 2014-03-23T17:27:59Z wakeup quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T17:28:15Z pranavrc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T17:33:34Z Guest16035 is now known as Kruppe 2014-03-23T17:34:15Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-03-23T17:34:38Z lyanchih_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T17:35:02Z fiveop quit 2014-03-23T17:35:43Z Okasu quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-23T17:35:48Z drewc joined #lisp 2014-03-23T17:36:20Z jxv joined #lisp 2014-03-23T17:36:32Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys) 2014-03-23T17:40:35Z Guest33174 is now known as xristos 2014-03-23T17:41:58Z beach left #lisp 2014-03-23T17:51:20Z ykm left #lisp 2014-03-23T17:53:37Z swflint quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T17:57:27Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-23T17:59:28Z zacharias quit (Quit: Bye!) 2014-03-23T17:59:41Z archonix quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-23T18:02:07Z Twipply quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-23T18:06:16Z yacks quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-23T18:07:08Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-23T18:13:18Z wheelsucker quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T18:13:56Z nha_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T18:14:02Z seangrov` joined #lisp 2014-03-23T18:17:37Z seangrove quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-23T18:20:19Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-23T18:20:24Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-23T18:29:38Z wheelsucker joined #lisp 2014-03-23T18:31:43Z brandonz_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-23T18:34:59Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-23T18:35:15Z cpape quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-23T18:36:38Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-03-23T18:38:59Z Vicfred joined #lisp 2014-03-23T18:39:18Z wgl joined #lisp 2014-03-23T18:41:21Z Vivitron` joined #lisp 2014-03-23T18:41:22Z Vivitron quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-23T18:43:39Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2014-03-23T18:46:01Z saarin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T18:46:43Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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2014-03-23T22:21:15Z aeth quit (Quit: reboot) 2014-03-23T22:21:19Z wheelsucker: Anybody know if hunchentoot supports IPv6? 2014-03-23T22:21:35Z eaumontab joined #lisp 2014-03-23T22:24:37Z sykopomp quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T22:25:10Z sykopomp joined #lisp 2014-03-23T22:25:40Z loicbsd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T22:28:44Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T22:28:47Z eaumontab quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T22:29:30Z xani quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T22:30:27Z aeth joined #lisp 2014-03-23T22:33:25Z groun0 joined #lisp 2014-03-23T22:33:49Z groun0: what is the most useful lisp application ever developed? 2014-03-23T22:34:21Z Quadrescence: the lisp compiler 2014-03-23T22:34:22Z dandersen: SBCL 2014-03-23T22:34:23Z DataLinkDroid: spam filters 2014-03-23T22:34:51Z drewc: what I am working on right now. 2014-03-23T22:36:53Z drewc: OR: define useful, define lisp, and define application. 2014-03-23T22:37:29Z Bicyclidine: also 'is' just for completeness 2014-03-23T22:38:48Z J4gger: autocad 2014-03-23T22:42:27Z Denommus: Emacs 2014-03-23T22:43:55Z drewc looks at his emacs which is a C application that develops its own lisp and needs further definitions! 2014-03-23T22:44:51Z sykopomp: JavaScript 2014-03-23T22:44:58Z Denommus: drewc: well, the C part is mostly the runtime, isn't it? I don't think there is a runtime made in Lisp itself, is there? 2014-03-23T22:46:40Z drewc: Denommus: define runtime? OR: most lisp runtimes are made in lisp itself, so I need further definitions 2014-03-23T22:47:00Z drewc: javascript! is that an application? 2014-03-23T22:47:18Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T22:47:23Z Denommus: drewc: I don't know any Common Lisp which the runtime ISN'T written in C 2014-03-23T22:47:33Z qiemem quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-23T22:47:47Z Denommus: drewc: runtime is anything that require manual memory management, like the garbage collector itself 2014-03-23T22:47:55Z groun0: useful = most innovative and popular program :) 2014-03-23T22:48:12Z Xach: http://wigflip.com/roflbot/ 2014-03-23T22:49:26Z Denommus: groun0: that's something hard to track. I'd recommend you to look into the language not because it have done, but because of what it CAN do 2014-03-23T22:49:43Z groun0: well any language is capable of doing anything 2014-03-23T22:49:59Z J4gger: a number of of the first ajor versions of autocad was written in Lisp. Anyway, nowadays Lisp is a scripting language inside of it, nothing more. 2014-03-23T22:50:15Z groun0: if you really want to do great stuff might as well program in assembly because that is the only language that we need 2014-03-23T22:50:25Z Denommus: groun0: yeah, but the point is how it can do it. Lisp is awesome because it allows you to extend the syntax and semantics of the language to make it the most appropriate language for your domain 2014-03-23T22:50:44Z drewc: groun0: assembly? much too high level. 2014-03-23T22:51:17Z drewc glances at his TAOCPs :P 2014-03-23T22:51:50Z Bicyclidine: assembly hides too much information about the processor *nods sagely* 2014-03-23T22:52:02Z Denommus: groun0: it's not an actuall Common Lisp example (this channel is for Common Lisp only), but the Racket environment comes with a full ALGOL 60 implementation written only with Lisp macros 2014-03-23T22:52:27Z harish joined #lisp 2014-03-23T22:53:31Z KCL joined #lisp 2014-03-23T22:53:38Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-03-23T22:53:44Z groun0: drewc: assembly is one step above binary 2014-03-23T22:54:05Z groun0: if you can program in binary you shall be hailed as a god 2014-03-23T22:54:06Z groun0: lol 2014-03-23T22:54:11Z oGMo: binary? heh 2014-03-23T22:54:13Z Denommus: groun0: actually, nowadays that's a myth. Assembly is an abstraction on how hardware actually is 2014-03-23T22:54:33Z groun0: actually is... 2014-03-23T22:54:36Z groun0: you left us hanging 2014-03-23T22:54:37Z drewc: binary is a numbering system, not a programming language! 2014-03-23T22:55:08Z Denommus: groun0: rephrasing myself, how hardware actually looks like 2014-03-23T22:55:12Z Bicyclidine: groun0: "how hardware actually is" is a fine noun phrase. 2014-03-23T22:55:25Z drewc: OR : bits and bytes have difference meanings for different machines, hence /machine code/ . 2014-03-23T22:55:34Z Denommus: groun0: and anyway, that also depends on the hardware. Lisp machine's machine code was a Lisp 2014-03-23T22:55:47Z Denommus: groun0: that was possible because the garbage collector ran directly on the hardware 2014-03-23T22:56:15Z groun0: all the hardware understands is wavelengths and pulses of electricity 2014-03-23T22:56:18Z atgreen joined #lisp 2014-03-23T22:56:34Z groun0: binary does just that 2014-03-23T22:56:38Z Denommus: but that's not very useful to model, is it? :-) 2014-03-23T22:56:40Z drewc: Denommus: I see to remember a runtime that had the GC in lisp for CL ... but I am likely less than 1/8 correct in that regard. 2014-03-23T22:56:41Z J4gger quit (Quit: J4gger) 2014-03-23T22:56:47Z groun0: so if you can "program in binary" you're a god lol 2014-03-23T22:56:55Z Bicyclidine left #lisp 2014-03-23T22:56:58Z Jayk97 quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-23T22:57:22Z francogrex joined #lisp 2014-03-23T22:57:34Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T22:57:39Z groun0: from my understanding a simple "print" command is a tiny pulse of instruction 2014-03-23T22:57:39Z drewc lights his lighter, turning 0 into 1 and running the heat and light program! yay creator! 2014-03-23T22:58:02Z groun0: whoever came up with the idea is a genius 2014-03-23T22:58:08Z Denommus: groun0: really, those are just myths. Surely the machine understands only a bunch of mysterious binary data, but those are not meant for human being anyway, they're meant for compilers and operating systems to handle. It's not useful to model your head on top of those 2014-03-23T22:58:33Z groun0: well, it'd make me feel better if i knew it :) 2014-03-23T22:58:40Z Denommus: groun0: the actual foundation of programming is mathematics. And, in that regard, Lisp is pretty "low-level", because it is based on a syntax written specifically for the lambda calculus 2014-03-23T22:58:45Z drewc blabbers on about trinary systems ... 2014-03-23T22:58:57Z francogrex: (= 184 #xB8) and (write-to-string 184 :base 16) ok how can I get the repl to print 184 as #xB8 and not the string 2014-03-23T22:59:08Z Denommus: groun0: and lambda calculus is one of the possible foundations of computer science (another one would be turing machines) 2014-03-23T22:59:14Z groun0: if i wrapped my head around that i would be able to understand why i'm typing the things i'm typing instead of "this is how yo do things" 2014-03-23T22:59:45Z Quadrescence: francogrex, (setq *print-base* 16) 2014-03-23T23:00:06Z Denommus: groun0: the binary system would be useless for quantum machines, but the lambda calculus would be still there, working and untouched 2014-03-23T23:00:17Z francogrex: Quadrescence: (setq *print-base* 16) => 10 ! 2014-03-23T23:00:22Z drewc: Denommus: oh oh! ABCL! 2014-03-23T23:00:24Z Quadrescence: wow! 2014-03-23T23:00:34Z Denommus: drewc: ABCL's runtime is the JVM, actually 2014-03-23T23:00:53Z drewc: damn, I thought I might get to play a fast one there. 2014-03-23T23:01:07Z francogrex: ok that was weird. but thanks 2014-03-23T23:01:38Z Denommus: drewc: Lisp machine's Lisp didn't need a C runtime, but that's just because it had direct hardware support. No modern hardware runs a garbage collector 2014-03-23T23:02:10Z dandersen quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T23:02:18Z Vivitron` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T23:02:39Z Denommus: (and I'm glad they don't) 2014-03-23T23:04:34Z oGMo: you shouldn't be :p 2014-03-23T23:04:40Z klltkr joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:04:40Z francogrex quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-23T23:04:48Z drewc: Denommus: how about Zeta-C or a more modern CL port ... given that all runtimes we know of are in C, and we can #1=(|compile C to Lisp and then Lisp to Lisp and then ...| . #1#) 2014-03-23T23:04:58Z oGMo: hw GC assistance would be great 2014-03-23T23:05:07Z dandersen joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:05:56Z Denommus: oGMo: I like the modern way of doing that: if you need a GC, you use a virtual machine (not necessarily something like VirtualBox, more in the line of JVM or CLR) 2014-03-23T23:06:19Z oGMo: Denommus: er no heh 2014-03-23T23:06:29Z MjrTom joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:06:39Z Denommus: drewc: ECL compiles to C, but it also needs a runtime. The problem is the absence of manual memory management 2014-03-23T23:06:52Z Denommus: oGMo: no what? 2014-03-23T23:06:55Z oGMo: you don't need "a VM" to do GC, and having a fast hardware write barrier or tagging would be excellent 2014-03-23T23:07:18Z Denommus: sorry, I was mistaken in implying that you need a VM to do GC 2014-03-23T23:07:34Z Shinmera quit (Quit: ZzzZ) 2014-03-23T23:07:38Z Denommus: I tried to say that if you want GC support without worrying about it, you can use a VM 2014-03-23T23:08:09Z Adlai quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T23:08:26Z oGMo: you don't have to worry either way really, you just allocate a chunk and manage it heh 2014-03-23T23:08:57Z Adlai joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:09:03Z Denommus: anyway, I like it because sometimes you don't need a GC, but having a GC as a requirement would get in your way every once in a while 2014-03-23T23:09:31Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-23T23:11:26Z gendl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T23:13:54Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:14:26Z guiambros__ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-23T23:14:35Z nisstyre_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 2014-03-23T23:14:35Z nisstyre quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 2014-03-23T23:16:27Z xristos quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T23:17:44Z crixus quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T23:18:15Z Quadrescence: if GC is "getting in the way", you might want to reconsider consing up so much junk 2014-03-23T23:19:46Z zajn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T23:20:41Z Denommus: Quadrescence: or to use deterministic memory management: http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/LinearLisp.html 2014-03-23T23:21:38Z gendl quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-23T23:23:58Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T23:24:24Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:24:26Z Quadrescence: yes because in times of memory pressure when you're e.g. writing a high performance game, the thing you'll want to be writing is this weird linear lisp 2014-03-23T23:24:43Z oGMo: heh 2014-03-23T23:24:47Z yrk quit (Changing host) 2014-03-23T23:24:47Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:26:00Z Denommus: Quadrescence: it's just an example. There is already at least one language that uses linear types for memory management 2014-03-23T23:27:05Z oGMo: or you could just write non-consing code 2014-03-23T23:27:25Z Quadrescence: (that is what i just said) 2014-03-23T23:27:39Z oGMo: Quadrescence: apparently needs reiterated ;) 2014-03-23T23:27:43Z Denommus: (implying that there is some flag that warns against consing) :P 2014-03-23T23:28:10Z oGMo: Denommus: there is, profile your code :P 2014-03-23T23:28:27Z Denommus: oGMo: which is definitely as practical as having compile-time enforcements! 2014-03-23T23:28:28Z oGMo: i've worked to eliminate a lot of consing before that way 2014-03-23T23:28:43Z oGMo: it's pretty practical 2014-03-23T23:28:58Z Quadrescence: (define safe-cons (x y) (warn "YOU'RE CONSING") (cons x y)) 2014-03-23T23:29:01Z Denommus: if you're working by yourself, surely 2014-03-23T23:29:13Z Quadrescence: I'm not sure how a compiler would warn you that you're consing. 2014-03-23T23:29:30Z Quadrescence: Maybe if you had a special construct around code saying you explicitly want to avoid consing 2014-03-23T23:30:06Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:30:19Z crixus joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:30:56Z AdmiralBumbleBee quit (Quit: AdmiralBumbleBee) 2014-03-23T23:31:30Z nisstyre joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:31:32Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec) 2014-03-23T23:33:22Z nisstyre quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-23T23:33:29Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-23T23:35:20Z nisstyre joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:39:57Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:39:58Z xristos joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:43:07Z Malice quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-23T23:46:15Z zajn joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:47:30Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:47:45Z dandersen quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-23T23:49:13Z quackv4 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T23:49:48Z robot-beethoven: what's best practice if you want quicklisp to find local projects in a directory other than '~/quicklisp/local-projects'? 2014-03-23T23:50:56Z quackv4 joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:51:54Z schoppenhauer: I would suggest pushing the path into asdf:*central-registry* 2014-03-23T23:52:04Z schoppenhauer: IIRC this is the default method. 2014-03-23T23:52:10Z crixxus joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:52:10Z schoppenhauer: or it was, at least 2014-03-23T23:52:35Z rsh joined #lisp 2014-03-23T23:53:46Z DataLinkDroid: that's what I do too, but I wouldn't now if it's "best practice" or not. I just know it works... :) 2014-03-23T23:53:52Z DataLinkDroid: *know 2014-03-23T23:54:26Z groun0 quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-03-23T23:55:16Z schoppenhauer: i think it is the way described on the quicklisp faq 2014-03-23T23:55:32Z crixus quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T23:55:39Z schoppenhauer: good night 2014-03-23T23:56:05Z robot-beethoven: if you're using the path for general development, would you push the path on asdf:*central-registry* in your .sbclrc? 2014-03-23T23:58:00Z DataLinkDroid: robot-beethoven: yes 2014-03-24T00:01:01Z Jagger1 quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-24T00:04:41Z nisstyre_ joined #lisp 2014-03-24T00:04:45Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-24T00:06:16Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-03-24T00:08:42Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-24T00:10:03Z Asgeir quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-24T00:10:46Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-24T00:11:15Z cheryllium joined #lisp 2014-03-24T00:11:59Z cheryllium: is the chapter on packages in PCL still relevant? I know many changes have happened to package management in lisp since it was published 2014-03-24T00:12:54Z cheryllium: if I wanted to include the functions from a.lisp in my file b.lisp, is it bad style to just (load "a.lisp") inside of b.lisp? 2014-03-24T00:13:16Z p_l: cheryllium: generally "load files" are bad style 2014-03-24T00:13:22Z p_l: cheryllium: learn ASDF, and be merry 2014-03-24T00:13:57Z cheryllium: ah okay, I wasn't sure if quicklisp was meant to replace asdf, or if they are completely different things... 2014-03-24T00:14:06Z DataLinkDroid: cheryllium: there is nothing in PCL packages and symbols chapter that has been superseded as far as I can see. 2014-03-24T00:14:29Z antoszka: cheryllium: quicklisp uses ASDF extensively. 2014-03-24T00:14:41Z antoszka: cheryllium: just provides a higher level of abstraction 2014-03-24T00:14:42Z cpc26 joined #lisp 2014-03-24T00:14:45Z p_l: cheryllium: quicklisp deals with *distribution*, whereas ASDF deals with assembling the distributed code into something that runs :D 2014-03-24T00:14:54Z cheryllium: ah I see. thanks! 2014-03-24T00:15:06Z Vivitron joined #lisp 2014-03-24T00:15:13Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-24T00:15:22Z p_l: cheryllium: the difference between getting the sources from the net and compiling them :) 2014-03-24T00:15:48Z antoszka: cheryllium: you might also want to see the „The Complete Idiot's Guide to Common Lisp Packages”. 2014-03-24T00:15:53Z antoszka: cheryllium: very enlightening 2014-03-24T00:16:00Z antoszka: cheryllium: www.flownet.com/gat/packages.pdf‎ 2014-03-24T00:16:21Z antoszka: (don't mind the name) 2014-03-24T00:17:50Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-24T00:20:35Z cheryllium: antoszka: thanks for the link! this clears it up a lot. 2014-03-24T00:22:52Z Denommus: I find Common Lisp's naming highly confusing, if you go from other languages 2014-03-24T00:23:15Z Denommus: "packages" are what you would call "modules", "systems" are "packages" and I have no idea what a "module" is 2014-03-24T00:23:45Z Denommus: but of course, that's not CL's fault 2014-03-24T00:24:51Z rsh is now known as rsh_ 2014-03-24T00:25:07Z JuanDaugherty quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T00:29:36Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2014-03-24T00:30:38Z shridhar quit (Quit: shridhar) 2014-03-24T00:33:13Z gendl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T00:33:33Z jaccarmac joined #lisp 2014-03-24T00:34:27Z jaccarmac quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-24T00:34:39Z chameco quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-24T00:36:28Z ngz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-24T00:36:35Z cpc26: http://weitz.de/packages.html 2014-03-24T00:37:28Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-24T00:40:01Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T00:40:34Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-24T00:41:19Z seangrov` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T00:46:53Z yrk quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T00:47:45Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-24T00:51:14Z emma joined #lisp 2014-03-24T00:56:50Z Vivitron` joined #lisp 2014-03-24T00:57:50Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-24T00:59:04Z Vivitron quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-24T01:02:00Z emma joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:02:16Z crixxxus joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:04:32Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:04:33Z zacharias quit (Changing host) 2014-03-24T01:04:33Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:05:18Z crixxus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T01:05:19Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T01:06:10Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:08:39Z crixxus joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:09:01Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:09:16Z [SLB] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-24T01:09:53Z lyanchih_ joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:10:40Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:10:52Z [SLB] joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:11:06Z yrk quit (Changing host) 2014-03-24T01:11:07Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:12:25Z crixxxus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T01:14:01Z cheryllium: ok, so a package is a collection of symbols. modules are deprecated so we don't talk about them. what is the difference between a system and a library? 2014-03-24T01:14:23Z Bike: system usually means 'what asdf does' and library is an informal term? 2014-03-24T01:15:26Z zajn_ joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:15:45Z Adlai quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T01:16:11Z zophy joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:18:48Z therik joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:19:05Z zajn quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T01:22:09Z frkout_ joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:23:39Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:24:45Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T01:26:49Z kanru quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-24T01:28:07Z frkout_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-24T01:31:54Z drewc: cheryllium: the difference is : 2014-03-24T01:31:59Z drewc: -45069065328 2014-03-24T01:32:25Z CrazyWoods quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T01:32:47Z drewc did (let ((*read-base* 36)) (eval (read-from-string "(- system library)"))) 2014-03-24T01:33:12Z zajn_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T01:33:58Z Xach: that unit of helpfulness should be called the bourguignon 2014-03-24T01:34:18Z CrazyWoods joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:34:56Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-24T01:35:02Z drewc: lol, at least it does not involve deleting things :P 2014-03-24T01:36:10Z drewc thinks a library is a .a or a .so or a .dll, but has already gone off the C deep end today so figured, well, lisp time 2014-03-24T01:36:41Z gendl quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-24T01:38:02Z drewc is now thinking that "a package is a collection of symbols" is not quite right either... and now has gone cross-eyed again. 2014-03-24T01:38:08Z pjb: robot-beethoven: push a directory on ql:*local-project-directories* 2014-03-24T01:38:55Z nyef joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:39:14Z pjb: (to compare the bourguignon with the beane). 2014-03-24T01:40:59Z robot-beethoven: does a symlink in '~/quicklisp/local-projects' also suffice? 2014-03-24T01:42:40Z Xach: robot-beethoven: symlinking an individual project's directory? or a new tree's directory? 2014-03-24T01:43:00Z robot-beethoven: Xach: individual project 2014-03-24T01:43:13Z Xach: robot-beethoven: that will work finely 2014-03-24T01:43:27Z robot-beethoven: Xach: perfect! 2014-03-24T01:43:40Z pjb: But not on ccl-1.6/macosx-10.5.8/ppc for example. 2014-03-24T01:44:29Z robot-beethoven: i'm on sbcl/arch-linux/intel, so everything always works perfect for me ;) 2014-03-24T01:45:17Z Xach: ccl 1.6 older than clisp 2.49 2014-03-24T01:45:32Z pjb: Yes, but that's the last one that support macosx/ppc. 2014-03-24T01:45:42Z pjb: So it will go on being used for a long time. 2014-03-24T01:46:12Z Xach: so many registers :~( 2014-03-24T01:46:38Z robot-beethoven: does quicklisp manage 'system-index.txt'? (in '~/quicklisp/local-projects') 2014-03-24T01:47:18Z Xach: Yes. 2014-03-24T01:47:49Z Xach: It does it by comparing the directory's timestamp with the index's timestamp and doing a scan if the latter is older than the former. 2014-03-24T01:48:16Z zophy joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:48:33Z Xach: In situations where that doesn't work (like adding systems or directories more than one level deep), (ql:register-local-projects) will force a scan and index update immediately. 2014-03-24T01:49:11Z TeMPOraL quit (Quit: 'nigh) 2014-03-24T01:49:58Z robot-beethoven: thanks for the help Xach (and for quicklisp) 2014-03-24T01:50:03Z nffff joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:50:43Z Xach: no problem 2014-03-24T01:57:31Z lyanchih_ quit (Quit: lyanchih_) 2014-03-24T01:57:52Z lyanchih__ joined #lisp 2014-03-24T01:58:14Z cheryllium: in hunchentoot docs, it says "The main job of HANDLE-REQUEST is to select and call a function which handles the request, i.e. which looks at the data the client has sent and prepares an appropriate reply to send back." what is the handler supposed to be preparing? 2014-03-24T01:58:36Z cheryllium: looking at the example that came with hunchentoot, it appears to be sending an html string to *standard-output* 2014-03-24T01:59:18Z cheryllium: I can't seem to find where *standard-output* is being redirected though (I assume it's being redirected since it doesn't print to, say, the console) 2014-03-24T02:00:40Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-03-24T02:01:11Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-24T02:02:35Z cmpitg quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-24T02:03:36Z impulse joined #lisp 2014-03-24T02:04:34Z varjag_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-24T02:06:32Z Quadrescence: Xach, hahaha at unit of helpfulness 2014-03-24T02:06:58Z Gooder joined #lisp 2014-03-24T02:08:02Z harish joined #lisp 2014-03-24T02:08:11Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-03-24T02:08:33Z cmpitg joined #lisp 2014-03-24T02:10:43Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T02:14:17Z atgreen joined #lisp 2014-03-24T02:26:38Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-24T02:26:38Z Fare joined #lisp 2014-03-24T02:29:38Z nffff quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T02:30:14Z kanru joined #lisp 2014-03-24T02:33:27Z robot-beethoven: i forget: what's the idiom (as in, simplest way) of getting rid of extra return-values? 2014-03-24T02:33:41Z pjb: (values (extra-return-values)) 2014-03-24T02:33:54Z robot-beethoven: there it is 2014-03-24T02:34:04Z Twipply quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-24T02:35:08Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-24T02:36:25Z CrazyEddy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T02:41:31Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-24T02:42:58Z prxq quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T02:44:01Z jimmyy joined #lisp 2014-03-24T02:44:05Z jimmyy quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-03-24T02:48:58Z e2xistz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T02:53:46Z therik quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-24T02:53:58Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T02:55:44Z prxq joined #lisp 2014-03-24T02:58:43Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T03:00:20Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-24T03:01:47Z MjrTom quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-24T03:02:45Z innertracks quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T03:03:14Z axion: H4ns: do you also know how to completely disable the repl log for hunchentoot? 2014-03-24T03:04:18Z trebor_home quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T03:07:27Z nyef: axion: There's probably a variable defined for the log stream that defaults to *standard-output* or similar. Setting it to a fresh broadcast-stream (see make-broadcast-stream) should completely silence it. 2014-03-24T03:08:17Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-24T03:08:25Z axion: thanks, i figured as much 2014-03-24T03:08:30Z axion: just looking through the docs 2014-03-24T03:09:35Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-24T03:10:39Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-24T03:11:17Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-24T03:15:00Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2014-03-24T03:15:41Z Adlai joined #lisp 2014-03-24T03:26:42Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100) 2014-03-24T03:27:14Z brandonz joined #lisp 2014-03-24T03:27:15Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all.) 2014-03-24T03:32:19Z brandonz quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T03:33:10Z brandonz joined #lisp 2014-03-24T03:35:49Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T03:36:22Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-03-24T03:39:36Z yacks joined #lisp 2014-03-24T03:39:39Z Gooder` joined #lisp 2014-03-24T03:41:19Z Gooder quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T03:42:55Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-24T03:42:57Z Guest2700 joined #lisp 2014-03-24T03:43:01Z _zxq9_ is now known as zxq9 2014-03-24T03:44:05Z brandonz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-24T03:44:49Z zxq9 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-03-24T03:44:58Z brandonz joined #lisp 2014-03-24T03:45:58Z cheryllium: I am using windows and asdf cannot find my asd file. I did (push "/" asdf:*central-registry*) assuming that "/" was relative to current path (the asd file is in the same dirctory) 2014-03-24T03:46:04Z cheryllium: it gives me the error missing component 2014-03-24T03:46:18Z cheryllium: how can I help it find my asd file? 2014-03-24T03:46:19Z p_l: cheryllium: / is not going to be relative to any path 2014-03-24T03:46:46Z p_l: /, if accepted as path, will got to "root directory" of the disk 2014-03-24T03:46:55Z cheryllium: oh dear 2014-03-24T03:47:01Z cheryllium: what am I supposed to do? an absolute path? 2014-03-24T03:47:23Z p_l: cheryllium: start with . 2014-03-24T03:47:35Z p_l: then \ or / 2014-03-24T03:47:51Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-24T03:48:03Z p_l: (sorry, haven't developed on windows for some time, no idea how current asdf mangles pathnames or not) 2014-03-24T03:49:28Z cheryllium: huh, turns out the correct answer is "" 2014-03-24T03:50:22Z vivalaradio quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T03:51:18Z QwertyDragon quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T03:52:21Z brandonz quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-24T03:53:05Z Natch quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-24T03:58:23Z rsh_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-24T03:58:55Z brandonz joined #lisp 2014-03-24T03:59:27Z lyanchih__ quit (Quit: lyanchih__) 2014-03-24T04:02:17Z cheryllium: how do I tell asdf to compile all of the files inside of a directory? 2014-03-24T04:02:41Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-03-24T04:03:03Z nisstyre_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 2014-03-24T04:03:07Z p_l: cheryllium: you have to explicitly add them in you DEFSYSTEM form 2014-03-24T04:03:24Z p_l: as for recompiling a system, there was once a :recompile t switch? 2014-03-24T04:03:26Z cheryllium: I have found :module but it looks like you have to specify each :file as well - I want to tell it to compile just all files inside of the specified path 2014-03-24T04:03:30Z p_l: I don't remember right now 2014-03-24T04:03:30Z nisstyre quit (Remote host 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#lisp 2014-03-24T05:00:37Z aluuu joined #lisp 2014-03-24T05:02:25Z dmiles quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-24T05:03:58Z axion: i'm having a hard time figuring out how to supress requests made hunchentoot in standard-output. i have ajax that makes a request every second on my local webserver to update data, and it makes using the repl impossible as it just keeps scrolling when i'm typing. any help redirecting requests to nil would be much appreciated. thanks :) 2014-03-24T05:04:14Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp 2014-03-24T05:05:05Z brandonz quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-24T05:07:08Z lyanchih_ joined #lisp 2014-03-24T05:07:41Z H4ns: axion: look at the logging section in the manual, http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/#logging 2014-03-24T05:07:42Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-03-24T05:07:42Z pranavrc quit (Changing host) 2014-03-24T05:07:42Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-03-24T05:08:38Z Fare: axion: or you can bind the *standard-output* 2014-03-24T05:09:02Z axion: i have tried passing those arguments to the acceptor 2014-03-24T05:09:07Z axion: but they seem to only affect files 2014-03-24T05:09:29Z H4ns: axion: ah, you're writing to *standard-output* from your handlers? 2014-03-24T05:09:30Z axion: set both to nil 2014-03-24T05:09:42Z H4ns: axion: that won't be affected by the log destinations, true. 2014-03-24T05:09:56Z H4ns: axion: the solution is not to write to *standard-output* from you handlers :) 2014-03-24T05:10:04Z axion: im just using easy-acceptor 2014-03-24T05:10:10Z H4ns: axion: right. 2014-03-24T05:10:12Z axion: can i do this without subclassing? 2014-03-24T05:10:19Z H4ns: axion: what do you see on your console? 2014-03-24T05:10:32Z axion: MINEFIELD> 127.0.0.1 - [2014-03-24 00:59:30] "POST /ajax/UPDATE-RIGS/ HTTP/1.1" 200 347 "http://127.0.0.1:8888/rigs" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/33.0.1750.152 Safari/537.36" 2014-03-24T05:10:34Z axion: bunch of that 2014-03-24T05:11:10Z QwertyDragon joined #lisp 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2014-03-24T15:32:35Z nilsi___ joined #lisp 2014-03-24T15:32:56Z brown` is now known as reb 2014-03-24T15:33:02Z reb: Xach: ?? 2014-03-24T15:33:30Z sandbender1512 joined #lisp 2014-03-24T15:33:39Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T15:34:08Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T15:35:26Z nilsi__ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-24T15:36:17Z c4h quit (Quit: quit) 2014-03-24T15:36:50Z Xach: reb: a fresh week of lisp hacking! hooray! 2014-03-24T15:36:56Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-24T15:39:42Z dim: btw I'm publishing another free software done (mainly) in lisp 2014-03-24T15:39:56Z dim: I guess it's of too limited interest to be on Quicklisp 2014-03-24T15:39:59Z dim: but one never know 2014-03-24T15:40:05Z mordocai joined #lisp 2014-03-24T15:41:35Z Xach: I care only about quantity. If you can, please split it up into 10 interconnected obscure libraries. 2014-03-24T15:42:01Z anster joined #lisp 2014-03-24T15:43:47Z Malice joined #lisp 2014-03-24T15:44:06Z dlowe: I'm glad we've finally just made the rule explicit. 2014-03-24T15:44:14Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-24T15:44:26Z dlowe: so much time has been wasted making well-maintained, thoughtful, modular libraries 2014-03-24T15:45:15Z dlowe: when clearly what lisp really needed to be popular was 10 twitter apis 2014-03-24T15:45:42Z Xach: ten or more 2014-03-24T15:46:41Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2014-03-24T15:48:41Z CrazyWoods joined #lisp 2014-03-24T15:48:52Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-03-24T15:50:06Z dim: subscribed, I'll be there at the ELS in Paris ;-) 2014-03-24T15:50:12Z crixus joined #lisp 2014-03-24T15:50:21Z dim: Xach: there you go, so excitement, much amazed! 2014-03-24T15:51:44Z Xach will not be at the ELS in paris :~( 2014-03-24T15:51:51Z dim: damn. 2014-03-24T15:52:04Z Xach: c'mon over to montrĂ©al in america! 2014-03-24T15:52:16Z Xach: or berlin in europe! 2014-03-24T15:52:17Z dim: are you near NYC, I still have to contact lisp people there to see about a meetup being possible, as I'll be in NYC for a week next week 2014-03-24T15:52:28Z Xach: nope, sorry. 2014-03-24T15:52:33Z MinnowTaur joined #lisp 2014-03-24T15:52:38Z dim: MontrĂ©al would have been on my list if I didn't travel too much abroad already 2014-03-24T15:52:44Z Xach: rahul is in nyc. fare too i think. 2014-03-24T15:52:51Z dim: I'm just back to Sweden and going to NYC next week, see 2014-03-24T15:52:58Z pjb` joined #lisp 2014-03-24T15:53:07Z marsbot quit (Quit: (ăŽŕ˛ ç›Šŕ˛ )ăŽĺ˝ˇâ”»â”â”») 2014-03-24T15:53:19Z seangrove quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T15:53:34Z anster quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T15:54:41Z pjb`: ircbrowse: 2014-03-24T15:55:58Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T15:56:21Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-24T15:56:42Z pjb` is now known as pjb 2014-03-24T15:57:56Z Fare joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:00:43Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:02:26Z przl joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:02:51Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:03:05Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:03:05Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-03-24T16:03:05Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:04:48Z MightyJoe quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-24T16:05:47Z MightyJoe joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:07:43Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T16:10:05Z cheryllium joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:10:21Z cheryllium: can I use macros to write my .asd file...? 2014-03-24T16:12:25Z Baggers quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T16:13:01Z samebchase: cheryllium: people don't usually do that. Check out Quickproject 2014-03-24T16:13:07Z crixus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T16:13:23Z MinnowTaur quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-24T16:15:06Z mcsontos quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-24T16:16:49Z TeMPOraL is now known as mongo 2014-03-24T16:16:51Z j_king_ is now known as j_king 2014-03-24T16:16:57Z mongo is now known as TeMPOraL 2014-03-24T16:17:38Z ckoch786 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T16:20:29Z CrazyWoods: What would be a suggest ways to deploy lisp on server? 2014-03-24T16:20:39Z CrazyWoods: it's a web server 2014-03-24T16:20:47Z Fare joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:21:12Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:21:18Z easye: CrazyWoods: depends on which web serve... 2014-03-24T16:21:24Z crixus joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:21:34Z CrazyWoods: easye: what do you means? 2014-03-24T16:21:56Z easye: What is the software you are using for a web server? 2014-03-24T16:22:01Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T16:22:01Z Xach: CrazyWoods: when i do that, i have a lisp process that runs an http server and the regular web server (nginx) proxies some requests to it. 2014-03-24T16:22:07Z Xach: i run the lisp process in screen. 2014-03-24T16:22:21Z vxe`: apache: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod_lisp, might be dead tho... 2014-03-24T16:22:25Z easye: And what do you want to do with Lisp? Use it to generate webpages? 2014-03-24T16:22:46Z easye: xve`: yeah, probably better to do a revese proxy to Hunchentoot. 2014-03-24T16:24:03Z reb: dim: I am in NYC as well. 2014-03-24T16:24:09Z dim: hey, cool ;-) 2014-03-24T16:25:36Z dim: I've been implementing a little project that uses a webserver, and I've been tricking a kinf of an in-memory file system that I'm serving from… I load the files contents at defparameter/defvar load time, so that when I produce the .exe with buildapp all the resources I need are included 2014-03-24T16:25:47Z Xach: dim: cool 2014-03-24T16:26:03Z dim: then I use also the daemon project to have a ./pginstall.exe server start command that integrates well into usual Unix expectations 2014-03-24T16:26:26Z Fare: dim: which daemon project? 2014-03-24T16:26:27Z dim: Xach: well, that's my story here, not an advice ;-) 2014-03-24T16:26:44Z dim: Fare: the one that is portable among CL implementations and found its way into quicklisp 2014-03-24T16:26:54Z Fare: nice 2014-03-24T16:27:16Z varjag_ joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:27:44Z dim: # 2014-03-24T16:28:50Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-24T16:29:14Z Xach: 2014-02-11! that is so last month! 2014-03-24T16:29:19Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:29:37Z eudoxia quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-24T16:29:38Z Xach: (daemon hasn't updated in the march release) 2014-03-24T16:29:40Z Fare: Xach: what's the recommended way to remove old packages from a quicklisp installation? 2014-03-24T16:30:11Z Xach: Fare: ql-dist::(clean (dist "quicklisp")) should do it 2014-03-24T16:30:35Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-24T16:31:01Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:31:54Z dim: btw to see the code https://github.com/dimitri/pginstall (it contains the server start feature and the load-time embedded static fs) 2014-03-24T16:32:36Z kpreid quit (Quit: Quitting) 2014-03-24T16:32:45Z dim: and there I found it again! https://github.com/snmsts/daemon 2014-03-24T16:33:01Z kpreid joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:33:03Z dim: Xach: is there a QL function call that would give me the source repository of any available system? 2014-03-24T16:33:59Z Fare: Error in SB-POSIX:RMDIR: No such file or directory (2) — the argument seems to be /home/tunes/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/1553da225ffb795fc4f9aa1409f82802b723986a.data 2014-03-24T16:34:13Z fe[nl]ix: dim: watch out that with systemd on linux and openlaunchd on freebsd the expectations will change 2014-03-24T16:34:39Z Xach: dim: No. I wish it would. https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects is the way to find that out now. it's too roundabout. 2014-03-24T16:34:41Z dim: mmm, indeed, thanks for the reminder 2014-03-24T16:34:52Z Fare: does openlaunchd address the various criticisms that systemd has gathered? 2014-03-24T16:35:02Z Baggers joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:35:08Z dim: Xach: I guess you're telling me that the client doesn't have the data locally, right? 2014-03-24T16:35:12Z Xach: dim: right. 2014-03-24T16:35:17Z Xach: dim: i'd like to gather useful provenance info and make that part of each dist. 2014-03-24T16:35:23Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-24T16:35:31Z fe[nl]ix: Fare: probably not 2014-03-24T16:35:45Z Xach: i'd like to enable something like (hack-on-project "foo" :checkout-into "bar") or something. 2014-03-24T16:36:00Z dim: I'm surprised, the # display isn't from print-object? 2014-03-24T16:36:16Z dim: I just did a describe on it and add no interesting information 2014-03-24T16:36:23Z dim: (describe (ql:system-apropos "daemon")) I mean 2014-03-24T16:36:34Z Xach: dim: system-apropos returns nothing. it only prints. 2014-03-24T16:37:09Z dim: if it were e.g. a defstruct I could describe it to see extra non-printed information, such as the source repository, were it to be registered somehow? 2014-03-24T16:37:47Z dim: Xach: the green instead-of red output color in SLIME should have hinted me better indeed 2014-03-24T16:37:49Z Xach: dim: yes. but it's not certain that kind of thing would be in the instance. it could be stored on disk. 2014-03-24T16:38:08Z Fare: in case this helps with providing a good default for checkouts, rpgoldman has given ASDF a non-hidden default installation path — ~/common-lisp/ 2014-03-24T16:38:45Z Fare: starting with 3.1.1 only 2014-03-24T16:38:54Z dim: my kind-of proposal would be to have it readily in the instance and return of list of instances that display (print-object) as the current output... but well it's just an idea 2014-03-24T16:41:06Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T16:41:20Z seangrove joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:43:43Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T16:44:16Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:47:58Z Nshag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T16:49:18Z matko quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T16:50:34Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:51:17Z CrazyWoods: Xach: thank you 2014-03-24T16:51:37Z aftershave quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2014-03-24T16:51:58Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:52:07Z aftershave joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:52:49Z aftershave quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-24T16:52:49Z Shinmera: dlowe: I'm hoping Chirp can replace all previous cl twitter libraries at some point. 2014-03-24T16:53:25Z shridhar joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:54:12Z Joreji quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-24T16:54:35Z McMAGIC--Copy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T16:54:59Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:55:03Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys) 2014-03-24T16:55:18Z dlowe: Shinmera: https://xkcd.com/927/ 2014-03-24T16:56:02Z Nshag joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:56:03Z dlowe: To be clear, I don't want to discourage development of a better library 2014-03-24T16:56:27Z Shinmera: I don't even need to click that link :) 2014-03-24T16:56:55Z Shinmera: What I was trying to say with that is that I hope I can develop chirp to the point of it having clear advantage over the rest. 2014-03-24T16:57:08Z dlowe: Excellent. :) 2014-03-24T16:57:43Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-24T16:58:03Z McMAGIC--Copy joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:00:00Z waa joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:01:29Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T17:03:20Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:03:22Z aftershave joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:04:55Z MinnowTaur joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:07:14Z lyanchih__ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-24T17:07:17Z seangrove quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-24T17:09:31Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T17:10:35Z dim: I'd use ditaa for some diagrams here, or maybe graphviz (but the output is too ugly for my taste); do you know a CL system allowing me to easily program something, as in the lib would implement all the drawing and a high-level enough API? 2014-03-24T17:11:03Z dim: maybe something like tikz but in CL rather than latex... 2014-03-24T17:11:41Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:13:38Z MinnowTaur quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T17:15:22Z seangrove joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:17:07Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:17:11Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-24T17:21:54Z ferada: dim: easy is relative, would diagrams do you need? tikz even has automatic (lua-based) graphdrawing and graphviz can be made somewhat pretty with the right settings 2014-03-24T17:21:57Z seangrove quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-24T17:22:22Z dim: I think tikz is the winner here 2014-03-24T17:22:33Z dim: apparently it's not integrated well into pandoc, tho 2014-03-24T17:24:32Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:24:36Z kushal quit (Changing host) 2014-03-24T17:24:36Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:25:34Z SeanTAllen joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:26:00Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-24T17:27:44Z crixus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-24T17:28:21Z ASau joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:29:20Z axion: H4ns: got a minute? 2014-03-24T17:29:38Z H4ns: axion: i'm here. 2014-03-24T17:29:53Z axion: i have a big problem with a solution you helped me find 2014-03-24T17:30:01Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T17:30:32Z axion: single-threaded-taskmaster. if i use this images on my site (localhost) take about 5 minutes to load. its fine with MT, but im creating an executable and need ST 2014-03-24T17:30:41Z Xach: 5 minutes! 2014-03-24T17:30:53Z axion: yes and only 4 8x8 icons 2014-03-24T17:31:33Z H4ns: axion: i did not suggest that you need to use single threading with an executable. i suggested that it would be good for debugging. 2014-03-24T17:32:08Z yrk` joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:32:08Z H4ns: axion: as you seemingly cannot control the number of connections that are made to your server, using multi threading and a caching http frontend is advised. 2014-03-24T17:32:09Z yrk` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-24T17:32:17Z yrk left #lisp 2014-03-24T17:32:43Z H4ns: axion: just use (loop (sleep 100)) in your main thread after you've started hunchentoot. or poll some variable that is set to orderly shutdown your server if you prefer. 2014-03-24T17:33:04Z axion: H4ns: ive spent days tryng to get MT working with an executable. i'm not sure how to not exit the program immediately after started due to the toplevel form completeing 2014-03-24T17:33:26Z |3b|: don't let the toplevel form exit 2014-03-24T17:33:26Z H4ns: axion: (loop (sleep 100)) is one way. 2014-03-24T17:33:31Z axion: hmm i tried similar loops...let me try that 2014-03-24T17:34:18Z dim: axion: look at pginstall for an example 2014-03-24T17:34:25Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T17:34:47Z dim: https://github.com/dimitri/pginstall/blob/master/src/main/cli.lisp#L134 2014-03-24T17:35:03Z dim: apparently still with all the fun format-style debugging in the tree, mmm 2014-03-24T17:35:24Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:35:50Z dim: but at least if you copy that style you will have hints that it works ;-) 2014-03-24T17:35:56Z axion: H4ns: thank you. figured it was simple 2014-03-24T17:36:05Z axion: that works great and images load 2014-03-24T17:36:58Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T17:39:17Z ikki joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:39:18Z axion: dim: thanks too. i'll check it out 2014-03-24T17:40:42Z dim: well it's the same tip, just already applied in working code 2014-03-24T17:40:55Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-24T17:46:47Z mrSpec quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-24T17:51:37Z kanru quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T17:52:02Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-24T17:53:13Z erry quit (Changing host) 2014-03-24T17:53:13Z erry joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:53:36Z erry quit (Changing host) 2014-03-24T17:53:37Z erry joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:53:51Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:54:45Z klltkr joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:55:27Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:55:35Z eudoxia quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-24T17:57:14Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:57:21Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2014-03-24T17:58:27Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:01:05Z ckoch786 joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:02:55Z Mandus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T18:03:03Z Mandus joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:03:36Z Crystal30 joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:04:36Z Crystal30 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-24T18:05:28Z Vutral quit (Excess Flood) 2014-03-24T18:08:41Z pranavrc quit (Quit: Ping timeout: âž) 2014-03-24T18:09:55Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:13:37Z freik_ quit (Quit: Reconnecting) 2014-03-24T18:13:50Z freik_ joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:14:07Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T18:18:31Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T18:20:35Z Fare: ok, so if for background compatibility with those that modify it, I'm maintaining a global readtable for compilation of asdf systems, what should I call it? 2014-03-24T18:20:39Z cheryllium: so I am looking at quickproject, it seems like it creates project directories and files for you, is this right? 2014-03-24T18:20:49Z Fare: asdf:*global-readtable* or asdf:*asdf-readtable* ? 2014-03-24T18:21:06Z cheryllium: because my project is already set up with asdf, I am not really sure how to... convert(?) it to quickproject 2014-03-24T18:21:18Z Fare: asdf:*compile-readtable* ? asdf:*lisp-readtable* ? asdf:*shared-readtable* ? 2014-03-24T18:21:39Z Fare: cheryllium, you don't need to anything, do you? 2014-03-24T18:21:56Z cheryllium: I don't know, to be honest 2014-03-24T18:22:15Z Fare: then don't worry until someone or something complains 2014-03-24T18:22:17Z Houl joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:22:24Z Fare: maybe *shared-readtable* is better. 2014-03-24T18:22:32Z cheryllium: What I want to do is tell asdf to compile all of the files in a subdirectory 2014-03-24T18:22:40Z cheryllium: however, it looks like I must specify each of these files with :file 2014-03-24T18:22:53Z Fare: yes 2014-03-24T18:22:56Z cheryllium: is there a way to not have to do that, and just specify a subdirectory? 2014-03-24T18:23:08Z Fare: and use :serial t if they are in serial order, or else indidivual :depends-on 2014-03-24T18:23:19Z Fare: there is always a way, but that's not recommended 2014-03-24T18:23:31Z cheryllium: Why is it not recommended? how would I do it? 2014-03-24T18:23:35Z Fare: how is asdf to guess the dependency order between those files? 2014-03-24T18:23:55Z Fare: asdf comes with a wild-modules contrib 2014-03-24T18:23:57Z cheryllium: good point. in this project I would specify that they do not depend on each other 2014-03-24T18:24:02Z Fare: I strongly recommend against it 2014-03-24T18:24:08Z cheryllium: hmm, okay 2014-03-24T18:24:21Z Fare: unless you have hundreds of files or more with no dependencies 2014-03-24T18:24:38Z Fare: at least tens 2014-03-24T18:24:54Z Fare: what are these files, anyway? 2014-03-24T18:25:30Z cheryllium: I am making a framework where the user can add lisp files to directories, for instance, models, views, controllers 2014-03-24T18:26:11Z Fare: maybe your framework should update the .asd file when users add files 2014-03-24T18:26:28Z Fare: or else maybe you shouldn't be using asdf for that. 2014-03-24T18:27:03Z cheryllium: yes, I think I will have it update the .asd file 2014-03-24T18:27:19Z cheryllium: this is why I was thinking of writing a macro to write the .asd file... I was not sure if I could do that though 2014-03-24T18:27:31Z Fare: make it a function 2014-03-24T18:27:33Z cheryllium: what other alternative can I use, instead of asdf? 2014-03-24T18:27:39Z Fare: yes you can do that 2014-03-24T18:27:55Z Fare: beware atomicity issues 2014-03-24T18:29:01Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-24T18:30:00Z Fare: I don't understand what you want to do, so I can answer your question 2014-03-24T18:31:50Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:32:15Z cheryllium: What does "atomicity" mean? 2014-03-24T18:33:23Z PuercoPop: cheryllium: being devoid of context idk, but atomicity generally refers to the event happening all at once, so it either happens or not, and no error could leave you halfway. 2014-03-24T18:33:49Z cheryllium: hmm 2014-03-24T18:34:08Z cheryllium: thanks 2014-03-24T18:34:53Z TeMPOraL quit (Quit: mongo db) 2014-03-24T18:36:07Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:36:07Z mrSpec quit (Changing host) 2014-03-24T18:36:07Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:36:17Z Fare: cheryllium, it means that if your operation is interrupted, it doesn't leave the filesystem in a corrupt state. 2014-03-24T18:36:35Z Fare: PuercoPop, hi! 2014-03-24T18:36:48Z cheryllium: thanks. I'm new to all of this so I really appreciate the help 2014-03-24T18:37:08Z PuercoPop: Hi Fare, how is linear lisp coming along? 2014-03-24T18:37:19Z cheryllium: I may have the users add the files manually to make sure they get loaded in whatever order they want (it shouldn't be too hard since it's just :file) 2014-03-24T18:37:29Z Code_Man` joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:38:17Z Vivitron`: Fare: a little late but I think I like *shared-readtable* best from those options. On first reading *asdf-readtable* sounds like it might not interact with user code 2014-03-24T18:38:52Z Shinmera: cheryllium: Why not let the users specify an asd system to load to get their module loaded or whatnot? 2014-03-24T18:39:38Z Mandus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T18:40:25Z cheryllium: That could work... the way my framework is, is that there are folders for different components. for instance, models, views, controllers. technically each could be a file on its own, I wanted to allow the user to make each into multiple files though (in case they want one file per model or something), which is why I made them directory 2014-03-24T18:40:45Z Fare: Vivitron`, thanks. That's also the one I picked in the end. 2014-03-24T18:40:49Z cmpitg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T18:40:49Z cheryllium: but technically you would only need one file for each, then these would depend on each other 2014-03-24T18:41:08Z Shinmera: so, either let them specify a file or an asd system to load. 2014-03-24T18:41:09Z yacks quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-24T18:41:26Z cheryllium: ah, I see what you're saying now 2014-03-24T18:41:28Z Fare: the goal of *shared-readtable* is to pander to the programming style of those who like to side effect a global readtable object and/or variable 2014-03-24T18:41:33Z drewc: Fare: asdf:*standard-readtable* ?? OR : that is what is going on right? 2014-03-24T18:41:35Z cmack joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:41:43Z Mandus joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:41:59Z Fare: drewc: I had a *standard-readtable* for a read-only copy of the standard syntax — but apparently, some systems REALLY want to modify it 2014-03-24T18:42:04Z Shinmera: cheryllium: that way they can have their setup however complex they want by using asdf, or you can make it easy with a single file that gets loaded. 2014-03-24T18:42:15Z Fare: including some systems maintained by the current ASDF maintainer. 2014-03-24T18:42:47Z cheryllium: Shinmera: yup, I actually like that. because for newbies it will be easy to just have a single file (so they don't need to care about asdf), but people who want more complex setup can still do it 2014-03-24T18:43:04Z drewc: Fare: exactly, and systems modify the "standard" *readtable* so everything after uses it, correct? 2014-03-24T18:43:06Z Vivitron`: Fare, drewc: I believe a couple systems broken off from the closure web browser depend on seeing /eachothers/ readtable modifications without binding *readtable*, it wasn't clear where a patch could be sent to change the behavior 2014-03-24T18:43:06Z cheryllium: Shinmera I can specify in the main .asd file to load other asd files though? 2014-03-24T18:43:36Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T18:43:49Z Fare: Vivitron`, what about a patch to both systems? 2014-03-24T18:43:53Z Vivitron`: Fare, drewc: e.g. closure-common frobs whatever happens to be in *readtable*, and closure-html depends on those frobs being present 2014-03-24T18:44:02Z Shinmera: cheryllium: You mean load other systems after your system is done? 2014-03-24T18:44:06Z Shinmera: cheryllium: or what? 2014-03-24T18:44:07Z Fare: and have them use named-readtables 2014-03-24T18:44:17Z Fare: that's the clean thing to do 2014-03-24T18:44:30Z Fare: Vivitron`, for the record, what characters do they use? 2014-03-24T18:45:01Z cheryllium: Shinmera - yes, my current system would be the dependency for any systems loaded after it (the models, views, controllers) 2014-03-24T18:45:10Z cheryllium: or I can just load them in order? 2014-03-24T18:45:11Z Vivitron`: Fare: I don't recall, except that it's the rune-reader and or rod-reader syntax 2014-03-24T18:45:28Z Fare: I don't see them defined in http://www.cliki.net/Macro%20Characters 2014-03-24T18:45:52Z Shinmera: cheryllium: Well, if your framework has some kind of startup function the user has to call anyway, I'd put loading your modules/whatnot in there. 2014-03-24T18:46:01Z ckoch786 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T18:46:07Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:46:08Z cheryllium: Okay, thanks, I shall hack around and see what works 2014-03-24T18:46:22Z Shinmera: cheryllium: otherwise you'll have to see about extending asdf to add that capability. 2014-03-24T18:47:43Z effy joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:48:40Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-03-24T18:51:02Z mhd joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:51:41Z foreignFunction joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:54:03Z cmpitg joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:54:26Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-24T18:54:44Z ckoch786 joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:55:50Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-24T18:57:40Z Fare: cheryllium, I strongly recommend explicitly declaring dependencies 2014-03-24T18:57:55Z Fare: and not leaving them implicit in load order 2014-03-24T18:57:55Z cheryllium: Fare I will do that 2014-03-24T18:58:10Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T18:58:20Z cheryllium: The best way is to let the user decide the order if they choose to have multiple files 2014-03-24T18:58:24Z Fare: otherwise, incremental builds may fail in interesting ways 2014-03-24T18:58:36Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2014-03-24T18:58:39Z Fare: see also asdf-package-system style 2014-03-24T18:58:52Z Fare: Not as sexy as gangnam style, though 2014-03-24T18:59:07Z Fare blames nyef for not calling quick-build gangnam. 2014-03-24T19:01:15Z ivan_ quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-24T19:02:38Z Aiwass joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:03:31Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T19:07:15Z Aiwass quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-24T19:07:32Z TeMPOraL joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:11:58Z nand1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T19:12:12Z kushal quit (Excess Flood) 2014-03-24T19:13:07Z zajn joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:14:08Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:14:12Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-24T19:14:55Z [SLB] quit (Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt) 2014-03-24T19:16:10Z drewc: cheryllium: I agree 100% with "asdf-package-system style" ... I have been using it for over 2 years at this point, and it has changed a lot for the better. Tonnes. 2014-03-24T19:16:49Z Fare: Tonnes? You mean imperial tons? 2014-03-24T19:17:01Z [SLB] joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:17:03Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:17:53Z wilfredh quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-24T19:17:53Z Fare: Oh, you 'nadians went all metric already. 2014-03-24T19:18:49Z zacharias quit (Quit: Bye!) 2014-03-24T19:19:46Z drewc: Fare: yup ... exactly. And I live on a sailboat, so use a lot of olde terms and must use the proper meaning... or else. 2014-03-24T19:19:59Z nug700 joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:20:38Z Fare: (was it Hubble that got borked because of a metric vs imperial units mismatch?) 2014-03-24T19:23:17Z jsnell_: a mars probe 2014-03-24T19:24:13Z jsnell_: but I guess it could have happened multiple times :-) 2014-03-24T19:24:34Z varjag_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-24T19:25:50Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:25:54Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2014-03-24T19:26:19Z zacts joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:26:22Z zacts: lo 2014-03-24T19:26:26Z theos joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:26:34Z zacts: can clisp do iterative recursion similar to scheme? 2014-03-24T19:26:39Z zacts: CL 2014-03-24T19:26:53Z zacts: sorry, not the clisp implementation, but the language common lisp 2014-03-24T19:27:41Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-24T19:28:31Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:30:01Z Bike: the standard doesn't guarantee tail call optimization like scheme's does, if that's what yo umean. 2014-03-24T19:30:12Z |nix| joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:34:18Z nha joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:34:52Z varjag_ joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:35:40Z Fare: what do you call "iterative recursion"? 2014-03-24T19:35:40Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:35:55Z Fare: most implementations have proper tail calls if not used with debug 3 2014-03-24T19:37:09Z nand1 joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:37:53Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:40:09Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-24T19:40:40Z Adlai` joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:41:59Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:42:03Z Adlai quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T19:43:49Z ckoch786 quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-24T19:44:32Z oleo: ensure tail call, ensure policy 2014-03-24T19:44:38Z nilsi___ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T19:44:39Z Denommus` joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:45:31Z oleo: maybe someone should make a list of recommended policy settings for some stuff.... 2014-03-24T19:45:49Z drewc: (defun recur (list &optional value) (if value value (loop for i in list :do ... (setf value ...) :finally (return (recur nil value))))) <000 iterative recursion ! :P 2014-03-24T19:46:03Z tensorpudding quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-24T19:46:05Z oleo: and a macro for calling it around code ..... 2014-03-24T19:46:14Z oleo: (with-tail-call-policy..... 2014-03-24T19:46:15Z oleo: lol 2014-03-24T19:47:33Z |3b|: might also need to compile to get TCE in CL implementations that support it 2014-03-24T19:47:33Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-24T19:49:20Z mc40 quit (Quit: mc40) 2014-03-24T19:49:59Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T19:52:06Z wheelsucker joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:53:48Z fiveop joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:55:49Z tensorpudding joined #lisp 2014-03-24T19:56:33Z fiveop: Is there any reason not to use a single condition instance for each signal invocation at a certain location, when the condition would always be created using the same arguments? (A simple example: (let ((condition (make-condition 'simple-condition))) (defun signal-cond () (signal condition))) ) 2014-03-24T19:57:21Z pnpuff left #lisp 2014-03-24T20:03:00Z mc40 joined #lisp 2014-03-24T20:04:27Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-24T20:07:33Z qiemem quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-24T20:09:11Z Fare: oleo, I used to have a ptc.asd system, but I couldn't find a good interface for it. 2014-03-24T20:10:42Z Denommus` quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-24T20:11:20Z Adlai` is now known as Adlai 2014-03-24T20:12:44Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-03-24T20:13:26Z ggole quit 2014-03-24T20:13:44Z foreignFunction quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-24T20:15:04Z TeMPOraL quit (Quit: bbl) 2014-03-24T20:16:35Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-24T20:17:38Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T20:20:51Z Mandus quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-24T20:20:52Z cheryllium: what is the best way to read the entire contents of a file into a string? 2014-03-24T20:21:14Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T20:21:17Z cheryllium: I found this, is this a good way? http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Read_entire_file#Common_Lisp 2014-03-24T20:21:30Z Mandus joined #lisp 2014-03-24T20:21:49Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-24T20:22:28Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-24T20:23:32Z dlowe: cheryllium: yes 2014-03-24T20:24:14Z dlowe: cheryllium: the alexandria library also has read-file-into-string 2014-03-24T20:24:23Z cheryllium: thanks! 2014-03-24T20:24:30Z Shinmera: I think I use the last one mentioned here http://www.ymeme.com/slurping-a-file-common-lisp-83.html 2014-03-24T20:24:59Z Shinmera: though that might not be the best way to do it since it doesn't produce a simple-string. 2014-03-24T20:25:29Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-24T20:25:44Z dlowe: unless you actually know your data is going to fit into eight bits, you're better off being internationally friendly. 2014-03-24T20:31:10Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-24T20:31:57Z cheryllium: where is the hunchentoot log file? :( 2014-03-24T20:32:17Z dim: ask your acceptor 2014-03-24T20:33:03Z przl joined #lisp 2014-03-24T20:33:04Z dim: if using SLIME, in your source code, go to where the variable is defined, and if you're been careful enough to make it a special variable (through defvar, say), then C-c I on it (inspect) 2014-03-24T20:33:30Z dim: when following the docs and examples here and there, *acceptor* is what you're searching to inspect 2014-03-24T20:33:48Z JuanDaugherty quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T20:34:07Z nha quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T20:35:11Z cheryllium: yes, thank you! 2014-03-24T20:35:21Z cheryllium: got it and fixed my error, yay! 2014-03-24T20:35:32Z dim: nice ;-) 2014-03-24T20:35:50Z Fare: cheryllium, uiop:read-file-string 2014-03-24T20:40:44Z nha joined #lisp 2014-03-24T20:43:30Z innertracks quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T20:45:07Z rsh joined #lisp 2014-03-24T20:46:25Z Fare quit (Ping 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vert2 Natch waisl QwertyDragon dmiles_afk EvW gigetoo __class__ pillton frkout prxq impulse emma 2014-03-24T22:15:24Z names: Vivitron` quackv4 xristos aeth saarin sklr mksan drewc jonh ConstantineXVI ktx Kruppe |3b| Praise m00n sbryant sauerkrause Colleen Kabaka_ d3f ramus cpt_nemo sshirokov Jubb smull jasom jackdaniel nuba oGMo lisper29 flip214 derrida ozzloy_ MinnowTaur_ luis` gko cross_ igorw j_king felideon justinmcp_ ianmcorvidae kbc Bike BrianRice Borbus fmu jaimef keen______ tomaw epsylon iwilcox mood Ober cmbntr_ _death cods acieroid gabot dim p_l|backup karbak Tordek_ 2014-03-24T22:15:24Z names: nitro_idiot eak felipe farhaven eee-blt redline6561 zbigniew nightshade427 ski johs clog sjl newcup Neptu peccu3 Zhivago eMBee staykov brucem spacebat hypno__ bobbysmith007 tkd froggey cmatei jsnell_ fe[nl]ix antoszka Munksgaard andyo copec schoppenhauer quasisane Xach Yamazaki-kun _schulte_ ec White_Flame Mathieu ircbrowse tychoish otwieracz z0d rvchangue ZombieChicken Zag loke_ Blkt AeroNotix daimrod sfa pchrist dlowe K1rk mtd_ aerique w|t kbtr_ abbe mal_ 2014-03-24T22:15:24Z names: benny phadthai cjwelborn easye specbot minion axion fnordbert alexherbo2 joga tessier_ aLmostHumAn izirku cyphase bjorkintosh aoh Subfusc cantstanya ar GuilOooo srcerer dRbiG doomlord__ foom milosn j0ni PuercoPop SHODAN misv gluegadget davorb BaconOverflow victor_lowther _5kg_ _tca clop2 Krystof _8680_ gensym InvalidCo splittist ggherdov_ fikusz ryANALankarason cdidd alakra wchun sytse jayne ahungry Posterdati ben| funnel nightfly joshe ck_ guaqua` clop 2014-03-24T22:15:25Z names: WeirdEnthusiast dfox bhyde drdo Oddity hugod q3k yano mindCrime hugoduncan erry gf3 shifty nialo_u lupine uzo ferada ered eigenlicht lemoinem chirpsalot sveit Adeon AGinsberg madnificent v0|d``` joast sellout ivan\ whartung Guest93682 dan64 nydel reb nop0x07bc palter JPeterson MrWoohoo cibs tali713 karupanerura theBlackDragon eagleflo finnrobi Anarch_ BlastHardcheese yroeht2 wormphlegm Fade hpd samebchase Watcher7 yauz p_l nicdev sigjuice musicalchair 2014-03-24T22:15:25Z names: vhost- faheem hyoyoung_home ``Erik spacefrogg Tristam kyl killmaster djinni` tvaalen adsisco yeltzooo __main__ zymurgy ft ineiros bege jdoles nialo` dstolfa kirin` enn rtoym Codynyx_ Fullma Khisanth joneshf-work asedeno housel ecraven setheus arbscht sid_cypher TheMoonMaster 2014-03-24T22:15:25Z verne.freenode.net:#lisp- [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup 2014-03-24T22:19:22Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-03-24T22:22:47Z Fare joined #lisp 2014-03-24T22:24:10Z emma quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-24T22:25:27Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2014-03-24T22:26:50Z jxv is now known as zjxv 2014-03-24T22:28:07Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-03-24T22:28:31Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-24T22:30:58Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-03-24T22:31:43Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T22:31:46Z REPLeffect joined #lisp 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The variable is defined, but never used. Has anybody else had this problem? 2014-03-25T04:11:58Z amadsen quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-25T04:12:25Z theseb joined #lisp 2014-03-25T04:12:33Z theseb: what if you don't want to only modify a local version of the variable x but you WANT to modify the version in the global environment? 2014-03-25T04:12:49Z theseb: i.e. what do you do if you want to violate the nice scoping features and truly have global vars? 2014-03-25T04:12:54Z Poenikatu: The mcclim fix-lispworks.lisp file tries to define a method, specializing the sole parameter to the unbound variable 2014-03-25T04:14:06Z Bike: theseb: don't locally bind x? 2014-03-25T04:15:31Z theseb: Bike: i'm trying to implement my own whlie loop recursively.......something like (while (< x 10) ....) 2014-03-25T04:15:49Z theseb: Bike: (define (while condition body) 2014-03-25T04:15:49Z theseb: (if condition 2014-03-25T04:15:49Z theseb: (begin body (while condition body)) 2014-03-25T04:15:49Z theseb: '())) 2014-03-25T04:16:01Z theseb: Bike: so i need to locally bind x i guess 2014-03-25T04:16:27Z Zhivago: theseb: Then why do you want to modify the shadowed x? 2014-03-25T04:16:47Z Bike: theseb: well first off that's scheme, and secondly you're not going to be able to make it a function 2014-03-25T04:17:08Z Zhivago: However, if you do, consider passing in a function defined in the correct lexical closure to modify the variable. 2014-03-25T04:17:32Z Zhivago: e.g., (while condition body (lambda (v) (set! x v))) 2014-03-25T04:17:48Z theseb: Zhivago: i'm trying to mimic iterative loops like for loops in C and python 2014-03-25T04:18:02Z Zhivago: Then why not use do? 2014-03-25T04:18:05Z theseb: Zhivago: so i need to say...raise the value of x by 1 every iteration 2014-03-25T04:18:11Z theseb: Zhivago: i'm implementing my own lisp :) 2014-03-25T04:18:29Z theseb: Bike: macros a must? 2014-03-25T04:18:32Z Zhivago: You don't need to raise the value of x by 1 every iteration -- your thinking here is invalid. 2014-03-25T04:18:42Z Bike: theseb: with function semantics (< x 10) will be immediately evaluated. 2014-03-25T04:18:52Z Zhivago: What you need is that for every iteration of the loop, x is bound to a value one greater than in the previous iteration. 2014-03-25T04:19:05Z theseb: Zhivago: i want to implement a for loop later in terms of this while.....that's why that "raise the value of x by 1" is on my mind 2014-03-25T04:19:07Z Zhivago: This does not require the value of x to change. 2014-03-25T04:19:15Z Zhivago: Yes, but your thinking is incorrect. 2014-03-25T04:19:27Z Zhivago: You can simply use a new x for each iteration. 2014-03-25T04:20:04Z Bike: (define (for x limit f) (if (= x limit) () (begin (f) (for (+ x 1) limit f)))) 2014-03-25T04:20:06Z theseb: Zhivago: so pass in the new value of x into the next func call? 2014-03-25T04:20:25Z Zhivago: Sure, that's why you have well defined tail calls in scheme, after all. 2014-03-25T04:21:25Z Zhivago: Getting out of a c/python mindset is going to be important for you. 2014-03-25T04:21:38Z Poenikatu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-25T04:22:17Z theseb: Zhivago: yup....there's an impedance mismatch between c/python thinking and functional thinking 2014-03-25T04:22:37Z waisl quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T04:22:45Z Zhivago: Although you should understand that scheme is a procedural language. 2014-03-25T04:23:08Z Zhivago: But it prefers a functional style of coding. 2014-03-25T04:23:30Z theseb: yea 2014-03-25T04:24:32Z waisl joined #lisp 2014-03-25T04:27:11Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T04:28:43Z michael_lee joined #lisp 2014-03-25T04:37:18Z CrazyWoo1s joined #lisp 2014-03-25T04:37:39Z nilsi_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-25T04:38:14Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T04:40:03Z CrazyWoods quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T04:41:55Z waisl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T04:48:55Z p_nathan quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-25T04:52:02Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T04:52:23Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-25T05:05:07Z rsh joined #lisp 2014-03-25T05:05:13Z p_nathan joined #lisp 2014-03-25T05:05:49Z lyanchih__ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T05:13:01Z zjxv quit (Quit: QUIT) 2014-03-25T05:15:13Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-25T05:15:35Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-25T05:16:31Z foreignFunction joined #lisp 2014-03-25T05:20:15Z kobain_ is now known as kobain 2014-03-25T05:21:45Z user3298 quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-25T05:23:50Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-03-25T05:24:34Z lyanchih__ quit (Quit: lyanchih__) 2014-03-25T05:31:26Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-25T05:32:27Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-03-25T05:34:08Z lyanchih_ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T05:46:38Z rsh quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T05:48:23Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2014-03-25T05:52:20Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T05:53:54Z DataLinkDroid quit (Quit: Disconnecting -- bye) 2014-03-25T05:54:00Z Nizumzen joined #lisp 2014-03-25T05:58:55Z pranavrc quit 2014-03-25T05:59:50Z cmpitg quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T06:00:27Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-03-25T06:03:40Z jewel joined #lisp 2014-03-25T06:03:45Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T06:04:55Z cmpitg joined #lisp 2014-03-25T06:11:20Z ggole joined #lisp 2014-03-25T06:11:32Z nisstyre quit (Quit: bai) 2014-03-25T06:16:46Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-25T06:20:01Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2014-03-25T06:22:32Z Gooder joined #lisp 2014-03-25T06:26:14Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-03-25T06:26:57Z nipra joined #lisp 2014-03-25T06:30:31Z lyanchih_ quit (Quit: lyanchih_) 2014-03-25T06:36:11Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-25T06:39:09Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-03-25T06:40:23Z angavrilov joined #lisp 2014-03-25T06:42:08Z __class__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-25T06:50:05Z freik_ is now known as freiksenet 2014-03-25T07:00:21Z mishoo joined #lisp 2014-03-25T07:08:01Z lyanchih__ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T07:10:28Z patrickwonders joined #lisp 2014-03-25T07:10:51Z lyanchih__ quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-25T07:11:04Z patrickwonders quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-25T07:11:15Z lyanchih_ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T07:11:26Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-25T07:14:25Z eni joined #lisp 2014-03-25T07:17:02Z mcsontos joined #lisp 2014-03-25T07:17:13Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T07:19:23Z QwertyDragon quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T07:20:20Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T07:21:59Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-03-25T07:25:25Z OomElvis joined #lisp 2014-03-25T07:28:52Z xificurC joined #lisp 2014-03-25T07:31:05Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-25T07:35:52Z cmatei quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-25T07:36:44Z cmatei joined #lisp 2014-03-25T07:38:50Z nha joined #lisp 2014-03-25T07:38:54Z yacks quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T07:39:30Z xificurC quit (Quit: Miranda IM! 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Time flies. 2014-03-25T12:24:36Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2014-03-25T12:26:34Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-25T12:27:23Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T12:28:37Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-25T12:29:02Z Malice joined #lisp 2014-03-25T12:29:48Z Sgeo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-25T12:31:33Z easye: aerique: Yeah. I was at ECLM 2013 as well, and it seems a long time ago as well. 2014-03-25T12:32:18Z Watcher7 quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-25T12:32:37Z yroeht2 quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-25T12:32:39Z Xach: i was quite looking forward to supping with lisp nerds in berlin 2014-03-25T12:32:45Z Watcher7 joined #lisp 2014-03-25T12:32:54Z yroeht2 joined #lisp 2014-03-25T12:32:57Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp 2014-03-25T12:32:57Z attila_lendvai quit (Disconnected by services) 2014-03-25T12:32:57Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Changing host) 2014-03-25T12:32:57Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp 2014-03-25T12:33:18Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-25T12:36:29Z H4ns: yeah, it's a shame, but we could not find enough speakers for sunday. 2014-03-25T12:36:52Z dim: naive question: why did you try on a non-working day ? 2014-03-25T12:37:39Z Pullphinger joined #lisp 2014-03-25T12:38:41Z H4ns: dim: eclm has always been on weekends. i don't think the lack of speakers is related to the weekday, really. 2014-03-25T12:38:55Z dim: fair enough then, ok 2014-03-25T12:39:20Z yacks quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T12:39:50Z dim: I tend to really dislike conferences that happen on the week-end, all the more on topics of interest... 2014-03-25T12:40:26Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T12:40:41Z H4ns: i'm sorry to hear that 2014-03-25T12:40:46Z foreignFunction quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T12:40:49Z matko joined #lisp 2014-03-25T12:41:02Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-25T12:41:52Z dim: week day are for work, week end for family, and technical conferences certainly are about work, not family, that's my over-simplified vision (that I bend when it suits me, btw, to travel abroad mainly) 2014-03-25T12:42:26Z dim: H4ns: it's just a personal viewpoint that you might want to take into account for next year's organisation, or just forget about, your choice, I did my part ;-) 2014-03-25T12:44:17Z Xach: Friend, you must join and embrace your Lisp family. 2014-03-25T12:46:14Z dim: hehe, that would be an argument 2014-03-25T12:46:23Z eni quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T12:46:30Z Krystof: oh no! 2014-03-25T12:46:39Z Krystof waves at Xach from over the Atlantic 2014-03-25T12:46:47Z Krystof: see you next year, maybe 2014-03-25T12:47:12Z Xach wonders how montrĂ©al will turn out 2014-03-25T12:48:01Z dim: now on to find a mathematical series that matches the year where there have been an eclm maybe? 2014-03-25T12:48:15Z dim: (so as to be able to do some useless predictions) 2014-03-25T12:51:18Z DGASAU` joined #lisp 2014-03-25T12:52:05Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T12:52:05Z Pullphinger quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T12:52:06Z jdz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T12:52:41Z Pullphinger joined #lisp 2014-03-25T12:52:47Z xan_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-25T12:55:29Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T12:58:23Z pranavrc quit 2014-03-25T13:02:29Z matko quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-25T13:03:19Z matko joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:03:41Z nilsi_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T13:05:46Z hlavaty joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:07:18Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T13:08:32Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-25T13:12:10Z eni joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:12:10Z CrazyWoo1s quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-25T13:12:44Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:14:35Z CrazyWoods joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:16:23Z przl joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:16:42Z Shinmera: dim: Counting the distance in years (12122) that's the 6305th position in Pi. The next number is 8, which I'm hoping isn't a good prediction. 2014-03-25T13:17:47Z znode joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:18:21Z dim: hehe 2014-03-25T13:19:32Z loicbsd joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:19:47Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:23:33Z Ralt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T13:24:37Z znode__ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:25:12Z DGASAU` is now known as DGASAU 2014-03-25T13:26:38Z znode quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T13:28:21Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T13:28:38Z znode__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T13:31:27Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:33:53Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:35:33Z amadsen joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:36:56Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T13:36:59Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:38:42Z lduros joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:42:44Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:44:01Z keen______ is now known as keen_ 2014-03-25T13:44:26Z yacks joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:46:21Z varjag quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T13:47:15Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-03-25T13:50:13Z loicbsd quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-25T13:53:02Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T13:55:54Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T13:56:24Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-25T14:00:41Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-25T14:01:03Z jdz joined #lisp 2014-03-25T14:01:32Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-25T14:02:37Z vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 2014-03-25T14:02:42Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2014-03-25T14:06:27Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-25T14:06:42Z xan_ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T14:07:33Z zacharias quit (Quit: Bye!) 2014-03-25T14:09:29Z mcsontos quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T14:16:34Z xan_ quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-25T14:21:52Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-03-25T14:23:07Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-25T14:31:43Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-25T14:33:49Z `JRG quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-03-25T14:36:18Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-25T14:37:55Z harish_ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T14:38:49Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-25T14:39:59Z nilsi__ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T14:40:41Z p_nathan joined #lisp 2014-03-25T14:43:05Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T14:44:53Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T14:45:23Z splittist: Spelunking update: it seems JonL was responsible for the first FORMAT package some time in the early/mid '70's. Jon L White "LISP: Program is Data", Proceedings of the Macsyma Users' Conference, NASA-CP2012, 1977 2014-03-25T14:54:14Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp 2014-03-25T14:56:49Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-03-25T14:59:31Z cmatei joined #lisp 2014-03-25T15:01:18Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T15:03:43Z keen__ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T15:04:56Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-25T15:05:18Z keen_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T15:09:26Z varjag_ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T15:13:52Z nipra quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-25T15:20:47Z kpreid quit (Quit: Quitting) 2014-03-25T15:20:49Z MinnowTaur joined #lisp 2014-03-25T15:21:11Z kpreid joined #lisp 2014-03-25T15:26:20Z Yona1 joined #lisp 2014-03-25T15:26:25Z p_nathan quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-25T15:26:30Z Yona1: heloo 2014-03-25T15:26:33Z Yona1: hello 2014-03-25T15:28:41Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T15:29:38Z waa joined #lisp 2014-03-25T15:31:19Z nilsi___ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T15:32:47Z nilsi__ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-25T15:33:14Z ramkrsna quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T15:34:07Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T15:35:20Z MinnowTaur quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T15:37:43Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T15:38:36Z Yona1: cabrones todos 2014-03-25T15:38:42Z Yona1: malditos 2014-03-25T15:39:15Z Yona1: :P 2014-03-25T15:39:22Z Yona1: O-) 2014-03-25T15:39:29Z Yona1: C:) 2014-03-25T15:40:47Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T15:41:45Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T15:42:04Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-03-25T15:42:24Z Yona1: mardito oleo 2014-03-25T15:42:53Z eni quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T15:44:07Z mathrick joined #lisp 2014-03-25T15:44:30Z Xach: Yona1: auf englisch, bitte 2014-03-25T15:46:44Z dkcl: I doubt it, seeing as he's being rather rude in Spanish 2014-03-25T15:47:34Z Yona1: you tu cabrones guevo xeyus 2014-03-25T15:47:34Z Yona1: :P 2014-03-25T15:47:36Z Yona1: yes 2014-03-25T15:48:54Z Yona1: :P 2014-03-25T15:49:03Z ChanServ has set mode +o p_l 2014-03-25T15:49:07Z p_l has set mode +b *!*yona1@186.167.243.* 2014-03-25T15:49:07Z Yona1 [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (Yona1) 2014-03-25T15:49:22Z matko quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T15:49:37Z p_l: ... I had to run it through translator first 2014-03-25T15:49:42Z eudoxia quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-25T15:51:01Z p_l: I really, really don't get people who do that 2014-03-25T15:51:36Z Shinmera: Boredom + Lack of creativity 2014-03-25T15:52:48Z matko joined #lisp 2014-03-25T15:53:18Z p_l: maybe, but I imagined one would do something with greater payoff when getting their jollies off being a dickhead on the net 2014-03-25T15:53:47Z ChanServ has set mode -o p_l 2014-03-25T15:53:53Z dkcl: Why #lisp, even 2014-03-25T15:54:21Z p_l: beats me. In one case I even found possible home address of the twerp 2014-03-25T15:54:25Z Shinmera: dkcl: Hitting up a random channel with a bunch of users, I guess? 2014-03-25T15:56:00Z oleo: huh ? 2014-03-25T15:56:07Z oleo: who was that chap ? 2014-03-25T15:56:11Z oleo: wth 2014-03-25T15:56:13Z oleo: lol 2014-03-25T15:56:23Z p_l: oleo: some random idiot from, it appears, Venezuela 2014-03-25T16:00:30Z loicbsd joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:01:53Z Ralt quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-25T16:03:13Z thepreacher joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:03:14Z thepreacher quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-03-25T16:05:53Z thepreacher joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:11:38Z Code_Man` joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:11:38Z Code_Man` quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-25T16:11:44Z Code_Man joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:11:52Z Code_Man quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-25T16:12:01Z Code_Man` joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:12:56Z Twipply quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T16:14:25Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:20:24Z ikki joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:20:35Z kondratyev joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:21:14Z waa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T16:32:01Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T16:37:07Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T16:37:24Z ehu` joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:37:38Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T16:40:36Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T16:41:48Z shridhar joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:44:28Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:45:21Z jxv joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:46:11Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:46:31Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T16:48:55Z CrazyWoods quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-25T16:49:13Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys) 2014-03-25T16:52:15Z sandbender1512 joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:54:43Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:57:52Z mindCrime_ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T16:58:35Z mindCrime quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-25T17:00:25Z kondratyev is now known as quasus 2014-03-25T17:00:54Z quasus left #lisp 2014-03-25T17:07:44Z loicbsd quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T17:11:27Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-25T17:11:55Z uzo left #lisp 2014-03-25T17:12:16Z w37 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T17:12:27Z oconnore quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-25T17:12:38Z oconnore joined #lisp 2014-03-25T17:14:20Z nilsi___ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T17:15:59Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T17:16:38Z Stygia quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T17:18:31Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T17:19:58Z AGinsberg quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T17:20:51Z AGinsberg joined #lisp 2014-03-25T17:21:14Z ikki quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2014-03-25T17:22:17Z jdz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T17:23:08Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T17:28:34Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T17:28:41Z rune1 joined #lisp 2014-03-25T17:30:07Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-25T17:31:33Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-03-25T17:31:35Z ckoch786 joined #lisp 2014-03-25T17:33:02Z drmeiste_ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T17:33:38Z MoALTz_ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T17:33:52Z drmeister quit (Read error: No route to host) 2014-03-25T17:34:10Z rsh joined #lisp 2014-03-25T17:35:25Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-25T17:36:51Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T17:37:13Z ballsoz joined #lisp 2014-03-25T17:37:33Z ballsoz: can you become gay after writing lisp? 2014-03-25T17:37:44Z ChanServ has set mode +o p_l 2014-03-25T17:38:06Z p_l has set mode +b *!*55a51c3f@*.85.165.28.63 2014-03-25T17:38:06Z ballsoz [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (And here I was just minutes from going out to eat…) 2014-03-25T17:38:29Z ChanServ has set mode -o p_l 2014-03-25T17:38:45Z p_l: afk - dinner time 2014-03-25T17:42:48Z Denommus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-25T17:43:13Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-03-25T17:44:02Z drewc is "so pretty and witty and gay" 2014-03-25T17:44:08Z jaimef: seeing all those parens all day? 2014-03-25T17:44:15Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-25T17:44:43Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-25T17:45:45Z loicbsd joined #lisp 2014-03-25T17:45:53Z drewc: "Feel like running and dancing for joy" 2014-03-25T17:46:58Z ehu` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T17:47:39Z drewc: and I happen to live just off the west coast, so that side is part of my story! yay lisp! :) 2014-03-25T17:47:43Z drewc: http://www.westsidestory.com/site/level2/lyrics/pretty_movie.html 2014-03-25T17:48:52Z thepreacher quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T17:50:01Z scottj quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T17:50:35Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-25T17:50:58Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T17:52:01Z oleo: lol 2014-03-25T17:53:11Z oleo: you da hobbitses man! 2014-03-25T17:55:01Z drewc: We don't like hobbitses and globinses! 2014-03-25T17:56:20Z oleo: jajjaajjjajaja 2014-03-25T17:56:59Z nialo_u quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:00:29Z drmeiste_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:03:47Z innertracks quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T18:04:05Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:04:07Z jxv quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:04:31Z PuercoPop: dkcl: Well if he is from Mexico cabrones is actually like saying dude (and rude pretty much everyone else) 2014-03-25T18:04:54Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:05:33Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:06:24Z drewc knows some Mexicans who live nearby, and PuercoPop is 100% correct ... 2014-03-25T18:06:49Z drewc: now to scroll back and see what is being talked about .... 2014-03-25T18:07:08Z JuanDaugherty quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:08:55Z drewc: oh fun ... ! 1 hr left in morning here, and so far so good 2014-03-25T18:09:43Z jaimef: goat is rude? 2014-03-25T18:10:26Z Vivitron joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:10:57Z bobbysmith007 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-25T18:11:53Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:12:56Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:13:07Z Vivitron` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:15:18Z Twipply joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:15:55Z fe[nl]ix: jaimef: have you ever been in the presence of a male goat ? 2014-03-25T18:16:22Z drewc: ... and have anything left to show for it? 2014-03-25T18:17:25Z drewc actually wants a pygmy for milking ... no room for a large animal where I live, but a dwarf or pygmy goat OTOH... 2014-03-25T18:18:48Z drewc also is on his first cup-o-joe, so apologizes for his off topic banter and goes to the head. 2014-03-25T18:18:48Z optikalmouse joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:20:55Z yacks quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:21:23Z przl joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:21:59Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:22:02Z pierre1_ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:22:07Z michael_lee quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2014-03-25T18:22:18Z hlavaty quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:22:27Z apex joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:22:57Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:24:47Z apex left #lisp 2014-03-25T18:27:54Z bocaneri quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T18:29:02Z pranavrc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T18:34:44Z sheilong joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:34:47Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T18:38:13Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:40:12Z jackdaniel quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T18:41:48Z Vivitron` joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:41:48Z Vivitron quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-25T18:44:00Z foreignFunction joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:48:21Z rune1 quit (Quit: rune1) 2014-03-25T18:50:19Z ivan_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:51:07Z JuanitoJons quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2014-03-25T18:51:44Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:52:59Z seangrove joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:54:26Z lduros quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T18:55:09Z wgl joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:55:35Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:55:40Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-03-25T18:57:11Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:02:15Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:03:38Z ckoch786 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:08:01Z BlackWabi joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:10:57Z Vivitron joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:12:21Z jewel joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:12:58Z Vivitron` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:13:01Z fantazo joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:14:29Z Vivitron` joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:14:59Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:15:24Z __class__ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:16:07Z drewc is back in the fo'c'sle, and still off topic, for talking about the fo'c'sle which is really hard to lisp. 2014-03-25T19:18:18Z Vivitron quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:19:08Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:19:18Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:23:25Z jewel quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-25T19:23:55Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:24:09Z jewel joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:24:35Z wgl: drewc: are you then tempted to fo\'c\'sle? 2014-03-25T19:24:46Z BlackWabi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:27:47Z zarul quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T19:28:05Z Vivitron` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-25T19:28:06Z Vivitron joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:28:18Z drewc: wgl: even worse, (formatter "fo~Ac~Asle") 2014-03-25T19:31:11Z drewc: wgl: or even better! > (formatter "fo~R~Ec~As~Tle") 2014-03-25T19:32:28Z drewc is coding in ecmascript, parenscript and Lisp right now, so is only 1/2 off topic! 2014-03-25T19:33:14Z BlackWabi joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:33:49Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:34:05Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:35:17Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:35:23Z d4gg4d___ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:35:54Z TeMPOraL quit (Quit: bbl) 2014-03-25T19:38:31Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:39:36Z drewc: (ps:ps (let ((fo "fore") (sle "astle")) (alert (list fo "c" sle)))) 2014-03-25T19:43:03Z atgreen joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:44:09Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:44:11Z Vivitron` joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:44:30Z mindCrime__ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:44:49Z wgl: drewc: I would say you got a major sailing thing on your mind. 2014-03-25T19:44:51Z Vivitron quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-25T19:44:54Z mindCrime_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:45:25Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T19:45:45Z drewc: wgl: I almost always do ... I live on a 45' cutter ... a sailing vessel. :) 2014-03-25T19:48:07Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:48:07Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:48:31Z BlackWabi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:50:38Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:51:10Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:51:31Z mindCrime__ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T19:51:33Z drewc: wgl: http://goo.gl/maps/UaGh8 <--- where that large sailboat is in the centre is where I am moored, only mine is larger :P 2014-03-25T19:51:39Z Vivitron` quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:51:40Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:51:45Z wgl: drewc: I remember you talking about that. This is the newer boat? 2014-03-25T19:51:51Z mindCrime__ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:54:10Z drewc: Quite new, only got her a year ago. But I had my previous boat in the same slip, which I bought in 2011, after I sold my other two boats that I bought in 2007 ... always on my mind it seems. 2014-03-25T19:54:16Z nha joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:54:43Z wgl: neat. 2014-03-25T19:55:08Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T19:55:35Z MouldyOldBones joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:55:57Z wgl: So you hack to sail? 2014-03-25T19:58:37Z drewc: yup, basically it. In 2007 I had a fairly large contract and needed to know what I should do with the income. I figured that a sailboat was a decent idea (for a number of reasons), and went with it. Nowadays with the network widely available and cheap, it is fairly trivial to live and work offshore, yet do what I do. 2014-03-25T19:59:16Z [SLB]` joined #lisp 2014-03-25T19:59:31Z wgl: Fun. 45' big enough for small family? 2014-03-25T19:59:34Z drewc: http://talofalee2010.blogspot.ca/ <--- the ship I bought in 2013, a blog from the previous crew. 2014-03-25T20:00:50Z drewc: 45' is huge sailboat wise, and more than big enough for a crew of 4 (a small family). It is quite large IMO. 2014-03-25T20:01:19Z [SLB] quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T20:01:19Z [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 2014-03-25T20:02:41Z drewc: That said, we lived on a 29' inboard sailboat for 3.5 years or so, me and my wife and 6 months out of the year her daughter ... so anything larger than a catalina 27' is huge to me. 2014-03-25T20:03:21Z BlackWabi joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:03:29Z drewc: (with 3 ferrets and a lovebird as well) 2014-03-25T20:03:53Z lduros joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:04:07Z antoszka: drewc: Nice stuff! 2014-03-25T20:04:24Z lduros quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-25T20:05:11Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T20:05:40Z [SLB] quit (Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt) 2014-03-25T20:06:36Z cmack quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T20:08:11Z nug700 joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:08:14Z wgl: So the three (seven) of you must be in spades of room. 2014-03-25T20:09:31Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T20:10:55Z drewc: Planning to go from here -> Maui in 2016, and start cruising in the South Pacific. With the internet available via HAM and sat these days, and only needing 1-2 months of income to cruise the other 10 months ... I figure a decent vacation, and after all, most of the world is the pacific. 2014-03-25T20:11:47Z [SLB] joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:11:53Z drewc: wgl: well, it is just me and her and 2 ferrets and a kitten, so absolutely almost too much room. 2014-03-25T20:12:11Z lduros joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:13:05Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:13:40Z drewc: and, heh, I was born on the east coast, now live just off the west ... and the only way to go west from here is, well, not over land. 2014-03-25T20:14:00Z drewc: Go West, life is peaceful there. 2014-03-25T20:14:04Z pjb: Bering detroit? 2014-03-25T20:14:36Z ivan_ joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:14:36Z wgl: Well, I find myself able to use all available horizontal surface, so I am sure I could fill that. Oh, and I have done Ham radio in the south pacific, but not via boat. 2014-03-25T20:14:50Z nand1 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-25T20:15:01Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-25T20:15:04Z drewc: it is only 30 kn from Alaska to Russia ... but that is north. 2014-03-25T20:15:14Z Asgeir joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:15:45Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T20:15:53Z drewc: I need to go west! and then south south west. 2014-03-25T20:17:12Z drewc: and then, eventually, west again. that is the plan... 2014-03-25T20:17:42Z mindCrime__ is now known as mindCrime 2014-03-25T20:17:43Z wgl: What points will you visit? 2014-03-25T20:18:15Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:18:18Z [SLB] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T20:18:45Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T20:18:48Z ggole quit 2014-03-25T20:19:10Z drewc: the plan is, well, all of them... but the only real goal is from here to Maui... after that, the elements will tell us when to go where. 2014-03-25T20:19:13Z ASau joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:19:20Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:19:24Z wgl: Vanuatu? 2014-03-25T20:19:29Z drewc: of course! 2014-03-25T20:20:57Z drewc: Dealing with such things is something I am doing now ... it is very very difficult to get permits and visas etc for the anchorage, 2014-03-25T20:21:17Z wgl: I would imagine. 2014-03-25T20:21:20Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:21:47Z drewc: but nautical law is international law, so just have to go through all the details and know who to contact in the 'emergency' landing. 2014-03-25T20:22:28Z wgl: What sort of radio will you have aboard? 2014-03-25T20:22:41Z BlackWabi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-25T20:25:28Z Xach: don't stop at ECLM. it is not there. 2014-03-25T20:26:34Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-25T20:26:41Z drewc: Likely a whole bunch actually. Inmarsat or something similar, a HAM for sailmail or some such, Pactor ... that is something that I need to know a lot more about tbh. 2014-03-25T20:27:25Z wgl: Nice keyboard-to-keyboard is psk31. 2014-03-25T20:27:40Z drewc: and of course the VHF ... cannot live without 16 :) 2014-03-25T20:28:27Z wgl: 16? 2014-03-25T20:28:42Z drewc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_16_VHF 2014-03-25T20:29:40Z drewc: I have used it once to call Pan Pan, and would likely not be as well off as I am without it 2014-03-25T20:29:51Z wgl: Ah, marine. 2014-03-25T20:30:21Z Asgeir: hi! when I try to load clsql's sqlite3 backend, there's an error I can't understand. Can somebody give me a hand, please ? http://paste.lisp.org/display/141781 2014-03-25T20:30:41Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:30:46Z [SLB] joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:31:07Z Xach: Asgeir: can you please show more of the backtrace? 2014-03-25T20:31:12Z Asgeir: yes 2014-03-25T20:31:35Z dlowe: Xach: that's distressing to me 2014-03-25T20:31:56Z Asgeir: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141781#2 2014-03-25T20:32:01Z Xach: dlowe: i am sad but not distressed. 2014-03-25T20:33:36Z Xach: dlowe: we should have a boston cl meeting to compensate! 2014-03-25T20:33:38Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:35:02Z drewc: Xach: can it be around Mtl time? That way I have an excuse to go to Boston when I am that way. 2014-03-25T20:35:04Z Xach: Asgeir: is it possible you are loading some parts from somewhere outside of quicklisp? 2014-03-25T20:35:50Z drewc: Of course, all the bostonites i want to talk to will likely be at mount royal with us ... 2014-03-25T20:36:07Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T20:36:19Z Asgeir: well that was a fresh sbcl instance and everything is showed in the paste 2014-03-25T20:36:58Z Xach: Asgeir: what do you get from (ql:where-is-system "uffi")? 2014-03-25T20:37:04Z Xach: and same with "cffi" 2014-03-25T20:38:23Z Asgeir: UFFI: /home/asgeir/p/lisp/clbuild/source/cffi/uffi-compat/" — CFFI: /home/asgeir/p/lisp/clbuild/source/cffi/ 2014-03-25T20:38:30Z Asgeir: oh damn. 2014-03-25T20:38:32Z Xach: oh my 2014-03-25T20:38:51Z Asgeir: thanks +_+ 2014-03-25T20:38:57Z Xach: "fresh" eh? 2014-03-25T20:39:12Z Xach: You must be an old-school hacker to have clbuild stuff lying around! 2014-03-25T20:39:18Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T20:40:23Z jxv joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:40:26Z Asgeir: installed clbuild back in 2010 and then switched to quicklisp 2014-03-25T20:41:22Z Xach: I'm impressed your ASDF configuration has lasted that long. 2014-03-25T20:42:40Z Asgeir: one more proof of the indubitable stability of lisp 2014-03-25T20:46:07Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T20:47:00Z dkcl: Xach: May I suggest an addition to the quicklisp repository? I don't have a GitHub account, anyway 2014-03-25T20:47:05Z dkcl: Xach: Over IRC, I mean 2014-03-25T20:48:45Z eni joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:49:53Z Twipply left #lisp 2014-03-25T20:50:22Z Xach: dkcl: Can you please send an email? I can keep track of it better that way. 2014-03-25T20:50:30Z Xach: zach@quicklisp.org is a fine place to send it 2014-03-25T20:50:46Z dkcl: Xach: Sure, will do, thanks 2014-03-25T20:51:04Z AGinsberg quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T20:51:30Z AGinsberg joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:52:35Z ivan_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T20:53:46Z gmcastil joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:54:10Z febeling joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:57:49Z Harag quit (Quit: Harag) 2014-03-25T20:59:11Z TeMPOraL joined #lisp 2014-03-25T20:59:16Z Xach: dkcl: Thanks for the email. That project is already part of quicklisp. 2014-03-25T20:59:58Z pnpuff quit 2014-03-25T21:00:23Z dkcl: Xach: Oh, I see. 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so... I had to make a {string : " asd"} because objects are mutable... and string are not objects/arrays ... or are save for when they are not, and blah blah blah blah blah blah. 2014-03-26T00:30:20Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-26T00:32:16Z shridhar quit (Quit: shridhar) 2014-03-26T00:33:36Z harish_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-26T00:34:13Z harish joined #lisp 2014-03-26T00:35:50Z pillton: What would you call a function that generates code that establishes lexical scope? 2014-03-26T00:36:12Z pillton: I am not sure I have the right terms. 2014-03-26T00:36:27Z drewc: pillton: well, first I would ask for more of a definition of what it does, 2014-03-26T00:36:36Z pillton: e.g. (funcall fn '(* a x)) => (let ((a 1) (x 2)) (* a x)) 2014-03-26T00:36:50Z drewc: lambda? 2014-03-26T00:37:02Z Bike: doubt there's a specific term 2014-03-26T00:37:13Z pillton: e.g. (funcall fn '(* a x)) => (symbol-macrolet ((a (aref v 0)) (x (aref v 1))) (* a x)) 2014-03-26T00:37:36Z drewc: (let ((a ...)) ...) => ((lambda (a) ...) ..) :) 2014-03-26T00:37:58Z antoszka: isn't the first sample just returning a closure? 2014-03-26T00:38:19Z antoszka: well, maybe no 2014-03-26T00:38:51Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Exit IRC/Hiberate) 2014-03-26T00:39:09Z TerranceWarrior quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T00:39:23Z drewc: how do we know that name of the variables that '(* a x) needs lexically scoped and bound? 2014-03-26T00:40:16Z pillton: drewc: Hmm. I know all the symbols that can exist. I will use the lambda form and defer the decision to somewhere else. 2014-03-26T00:41:16Z drewc: variables are not symbols, just named by them in the source code ;) 2014-03-26T00:41:45Z drewc glares at himself ... save for when they are! 2014-03-26T00:42:21Z drewc: ah right ... lexical variables are not ... :) 2014-03-26T00:43:41Z dkcl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T00:43:45Z drewc is doing a wee bit too much language switching and so is fighting with himself over definitions ... sorry! 2014-03-26T00:44:02Z pillton: drewc: That is ok. You helped me make a decision. 2014-03-26T00:44:25Z drewc: ah good, it was not for naught. 2014-03-26T00:45:17Z pillton: In the last 8 years I have used the lambda form twice. Both instances in the last week. 2014-03-26T00:45:25Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T00:45:33Z Xach: i used to have a truck like that, too 2014-03-26T00:46:07Z pillton: heh 2014-03-26T00:46:15Z drewc looks at the code he has written today... 2014-03-26T00:47:04Z drewc: 4 lambda forms ... 7 if you count the PS compiled ones. I stopped using #'(lambda ...) within the last 4 years or so though! 2014-03-26T00:47:11Z TerranceWarrior joined #lisp 2014-03-26T00:47:47Z Xach: i wrote my first SATISFIES type today, though. 2014-03-26T00:47:50Z drewc: it made sense to me back in the day, but now I prefer lambda forms over lambda functions, mostly because of conditions. 2014-03-26T00:49:25Z drewc: Cool! I use satisfies a lot, but my own shadowed version of it for my parser 2014-03-26T00:49:31Z drewc: https://github.com/drewc/smug/blob/master/pure.lisp#L112 2014-03-26T00:50:21Z drewc: Beyond that, I use typecase, and that is pretty much the only part of the type system that I use a lot. 2014-03-26T00:50:41Z drewc: beyond, of course, everything else because everything has a type etc etc 2014-03-26T00:51:11Z TeMPOraL quit (Quit: Wiktor, nie zapomnij wziąć wieczornej dawki SSRI) 2014-03-26T00:51:20Z Xach: I feel like I'm resorting to a satisfies type because I don't know how to get a more specific EPIPE out of SBCL. 2014-03-26T00:51:37Z Xach: At least I can give it a name and pretend it's really something more abstract. 2014-03-26T00:52:11Z pillton: Xach: What did you decide to do with your SBCL thing? Conditions or predicates? 2014-03-26T00:53:07Z Xach: I think I may go with conditions someday. 2014-03-26T00:53:35Z pillton: So (eql (find-class 'eagain) (find-class 'ewouldblock))? 2014-03-26T00:54:20Z urandom__ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T00:54:30Z Xach: Not sure. I'll have to think about that wrinkle. 2014-03-26T00:55:25Z pillton: I can't believe they did that. It is the only violation that I know of. 2014-03-26T01:00:37Z pyx joined #lisp 2014-03-26T01:00:49Z pyx quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-26T01:00:59Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T01:03:50Z CrazyWoods joined #lisp 2014-03-26T01:04:51Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T01:17:47Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T01:18:44Z Asgeir quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-26T01:19:49Z brandonz joined #lisp 2014-03-26T01:20:05Z therik quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T01:22:10Z SidWu_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T01:22:17Z SidWu_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-03-26T01:22:56Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T01:24:44Z Kruppe quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2014-03-26T01:25:53Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-26T01:26:32Z Kruppe joined #lisp 2014-03-26T01:27:11Z BlackWabi quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-03-26T01:27:51Z lyanchih__ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T01:40:26Z Xach: pillton: when is ILC going to be in oz? 2014-03-26T01:43:50Z pillton: Xach: I don't know. I guess there would have to be strong local support for such an undertaking. 2014-03-26T01:44:22Z pillton: Xach: The only other Australian lispers I know of are in Adelaide and the poor soul that works with me. 2014-03-26T01:44:40Z harish joined #lisp 2014-03-26T01:45:01Z Xach: Forgive me for forgetting - are you the guy who works/worked for accenture? 2014-03-26T01:45:20Z pillton: No. 2014-03-26T01:45:27Z pillton: They are the people in Adelaide. 2014-03-26T01:45:55Z pillton: I try and say hello every now and again. 2014-03-26T01:49:39Z pillton: This is me: https://github.com/markcox80 2014-03-26T01:49:40Z jxv quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-26T01:53:31Z shooter joined #lisp 2014-03-26T01:55:02Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-26T01:56:07Z adhoc: wait! there are lisp people in Adelaide? 2014-03-26T01:56:53Z pillton: Yeah. 2014-03-26T01:57:25Z pillton: These people. http://lispjobs.wordpress.com/2012/07/13/common-lisp-programmer-accenture-interactive-adelaide-south-australia/ 2014-03-26T01:59:25Z adhoc: nice, i didn't realise anyone locally used CL 2014-03-26T01:59:46Z pillton: adhoc: Where are you? 2014-03-26T01:59:51Z adhoc: Adelaide 2014-03-26T02:01:17Z Xach: LispOz 2015! 2014-03-26T02:01:35Z pillton: Heh 2014-03-26T02:01:47Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-26T02:03:03Z adhoc: Xach: seriously? where? 2014-03-26T02:03:03Z pjb: I'd be wary of being a programmer in Adelaide. You know with all those windy skyscrapers, and smartphones falling down the edges of windows. With old age, I get vertigo… 2014-03-26T02:03:23Z adhoc: pjb: and non opening windows =/ 2014-03-26T02:03:38Z pillton: Skyscrapers? In Adelaide? 2014-03-26T02:03:53Z adhoc: pillton: 35 stories should be enough for anyone 2014-03-26T02:04:09Z pillton: everyone. :) 2014-03-26T02:05:45Z brandonz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T02:06:30Z pjb: I thought that Metacortex was shot in Adelaide, but imdb only lists Sydney, so I may be wrong. 2014-03-26T02:07:20Z keen__ is now known as keen_ 2014-03-26T02:09:31Z pillton: Hmm. I certainly wouldn't use the word Adelaide when talking about the Australian film industry. Hip hop perhaps. Sydney and Melbourne are the most popular filming sites. 2014-03-26T02:10:05Z MjrTom joined #lisp 2014-03-26T02:14:34Z varjag_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-26T02:15:17Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T02:17:24Z ustunozgur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T02:18:22Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-26T02:18:24Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-26T02:18:51Z lyanchih__ quit (Quit: lyanchih__) 2014-03-26T02:20:22Z brandonz joined #lisp 2014-03-26T02:21:04Z adhoc: pillton: where are you based? 2014-03-26T02:21:15Z pillton: adhoc: Brisbane. 2014-03-26T02:21:26Z adhoc: ok 2014-03-26T02:21:44Z adhoc: except for RSP there is very little mainstream media production here 2014-03-26T02:22:09Z adhoc: couple of small media production houses for ads 2014-03-26T02:22:13Z pillton: adhoc: For the record, I love the city of Adelaide. 2014-03-26T02:22:35Z Xach: adhoc: nowhere :( 2014-03-26T02:22:48Z Xach: adhoc: but it would be cool to support australian lispers with a nice meeting 2014-03-26T02:23:01Z adhoc: i see what you did there. 2014-03-26T02:23:44Z ustunozgur quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-26T02:24:06Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T02:24:55Z harish joined #lisp 2014-03-26T02:28:34Z pillton: Luke Gorrie is from Brisbane. 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javascript file with the addition of unwanted tags 2014-03-26T05:59:33Z axion: err not a file, but a string in-code 2014-03-26T05:59:39Z wgreenhouse quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T05:59:56Z pillton: Perhaps using SPLIT-SEQUENCE:SPLIT-SEQUENCE. 2014-03-26T06:00:05Z Bike: you could use something annoying with position if you want to avoid split-sequence 2014-03-26T06:00:23Z pillton: Or using WITH-INPUT-FROM-STRING, READ-LINE and LOOP. 2014-03-26T06:01:05Z axion: i wasnt aware split-sequence can do this. i already have it in my system. i'll give it another look 2014-03-26T06:01:22Z Bike: axion: with split-sequence you just split the string by newline and etc. 2014-03-26T06:01:43Z wgreenhouse joined #lisp 2014-03-26T06:03:41Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-26T06:04:51Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2014-03-26T06:06:14Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-26T06:06:53Z c4h joined #lisp 2014-03-26T06:07:46Z enupten joined #lisp 2014-03-26T06:09:40Z ustunozgur joined 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Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 2014-03-26T07:53:59Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2014-03-26T07:54:36Z Malice joined #lisp 2014-03-26T07:55:23Z yacks joined #lisp 2014-03-26T08:00:31Z nug700 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-26T08:00:53Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-03-26T08:01:21Z Code_Man` joined #lisp 2014-03-26T08:02:27Z mrhooray quit 2014-03-26T08:05:27Z elderK joined #lisp 2014-03-26T08:05:33Z elderK: Hey guys! 2014-03-26T08:05:38Z elderK: I was wondering if any of you happen to be arounbd Auckland, New Zealand. 2014-03-26T08:05:46Z elderK: I'm moving there next week and it'd be good to have someone to catch up with, talk geek as it were. 2014-03-26T08:05:49Z elderK: :) 2014-03-26T08:06:43Z eni joined #lisp 2014-03-26T08:07:32Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T08:08:55Z Malice quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-26T08:09:32Z lyanchih_ quit (Quit: lyanchih_) 2014-03-26T08:09:39Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 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2014-03-26T10:58:12Z TeMPOraL joined #lisp 2014-03-26T11:00:44Z seangrove quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T11:01:35Z antoszka: Guys, mrSpec and I seem to have come across a bug in the latest slime available in QL. 2014-03-26T11:02:18Z antoszka: When we inspect * using C-c S-I *, then the inspector inspects not the *last* returned value, but the second-to-last. 2014-03-26T11:03:52Z antoszka: This update broke the behaviour: slime-20131211-cvs -> slime-2.4 2014-03-26T11:04:31Z varjag_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T11:04:52Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-26T11:05:25Z _5kg joined #lisp 2014-03-26T11:08:18Z harish_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T11:08:27Z strg joined #lisp 2014-03-26T11:09:35Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-26T11:09:59Z xificurC quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-26T11:11:43Z MoALTz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-26T11:12:59Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-03-26T11:13:14Z b80905 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T11:13:31Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-26T11:13:42Z _5kg quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T11:14:12Z b80905: what is the name of the function that returns a list containing integers within a given range? 2014-03-26T11:14:21Z ustunozgur quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T11:14:28Z H4ns: b80905: common lisp does not have such a function. 2014-03-26T11:15:04Z b80905: H4ns: so what do i do, then? 2014-03-26T11:15:10Z H4ns: b80905: (loop for i from start upto end collect i) 2014-03-26T11:15:21Z H4ns: popd 2014-03-26T11:15:37Z H4ns: oops 2014-03-26T11:15:44Z nffff quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-26T11:16:49Z xificurC joined #lisp 2014-03-26T11:17:12Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-03-26T11:18:16Z Asgeir quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-26T11:26:54Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-26T11:26:54Z sohail quit (Changing host) 2014-03-26T11:26:54Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-26T11:27:50Z _5kg joined #lisp 2014-03-26T11:31:16Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T11:32:35Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 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Still, I was wondering if any of had come across/can reproduce the error. 2014-03-26T12:13:56Z Xach: antoszka: i see the same behvior in my 2.4 2014-03-26T12:14:03Z antoszka: ok 2014-03-26T12:14:03Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T12:14:17Z Xach: antoszka: i inspect * quite often (but apparently not quite often enough) 2014-03-26T12:14:23Z Xach: so i'm glad you caught it and it will be fixed 2014-03-26T12:15:06Z antoszka: mrSpec was the pioneer here ;) 2014-03-26T12:18:21Z xan_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T12:19:51Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp 2014-03-26T12:19:59Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T12:25:49Z waisl quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T12:27:44Z CrazyWoods quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-26T12:28:51Z CrazyWoods joined #lisp 2014-03-26T12:29:37Z petrounias quit (Quit: petrounias) 2014-03-26T12:32:54Z atgreen quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-26T12:34:39Z Jubb joined #lisp 2014-03-26T12:36:25Z OldK` joined #lisp 2014-03-26T12:36:57Z yacks quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T12:39:47Z OldK quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T12:42:08Z petrounias joined #lisp 2014-03-26T12:42:36Z petrounias quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-26T12:43:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-26T12:44:33Z aftershave joined #lisp 2014-03-26T12:44:57Z cpc26 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T12:45:57Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T12:47:41Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-26T12:48:57Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-03-26T12:49:07Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-26T12:49:12Z petrounias joined #lisp 2014-03-26T12:49:27Z petrounias quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-26T12:50:05Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-26T12:50:27Z tenkujin joined #lisp 2014-03-26T12:53:17Z tenkujin quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-26T12:54:57Z lduros joined #lisp 2014-03-26T12:55:12Z knob joined #lisp 2014-03-26T12:56:11Z Odin- quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-26T12:58:46Z strg quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T12:58:47Z Odin- joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:00:17Z ustunozgur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T13:01:49Z przl joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:02:20Z ramkrsna quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T13:02:37Z Vivitron quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T13:04:08Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:04:33Z strg joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:04:42Z pranavrc quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T13:06:42Z prxq: I am thinking of writing a macro that changes, locally, the package from which some symbols are being taken. For example (with-symbols-from-package (:foobar) (f (g 5)))) would reintern any symbol in its scope that are external to package FOOBAR 2014-03-26T13:07:21Z prxq: has anyone seen something similar? 2014-03-26T13:08:34Z tenkujin joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:10:04Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:10:35Z Vivitron joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:10:38Z strg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T13:11:42Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:17:06Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:18:18Z yacks joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:20:28Z Eylusion joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:24:17Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T13:25:34Z segv- joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:27:24Z joneshf-laptop_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:27:50Z Eylusion left #lisp 2014-03-26T13:28:48Z mcsontos quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-26T13:29:25Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:31:50Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T13:32:17Z mcsontos joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:33:33Z amadsen joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:34:23Z nffff joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:35:38Z joneshf-laptop_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T13:36:01Z Denommus quit (Quit: restarting.) 2014-03-26T13:37:31Z sandbender1512 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:38:37Z Kneferilis quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T13:43:43Z gigetoo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T13:44:15Z gigetoo joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:44:43Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T13:45:12Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:46:28Z drmeister quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-26T13:47:52Z dkcl quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T13:49:47Z joneshf-laptop_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:50:51Z dkcl joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:50:56Z dkcl quit (Changing host) 2014-03-26T13:50:56Z dkcl joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:51:50Z aftershave quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T13:52:51Z H4ns: prxq: i have such a macro 2014-03-26T13:53:24Z prxq: H4ns: have you observed any special issues arising from its use? 2014-03-26T13:53:32Z H4ns: prxq: no, it works well for me 2014-03-26T13:53:39Z H4ns: prxq: i'm trying to find it 2014-03-26T13:54:02Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T13:55:14Z H4ns: prxq: sorry, i'm unable to locate it right now. but it works :) 2014-03-26T13:56:07Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:56:12Z Joreji_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T13:58:19Z prxq: H4ns: I planed to base it on this function: http://pastebin.com/cK1Q8tj9 2014-03-26T13:58:56Z prxq: it takes a form and replaces symbols in it by those exported from the package argument. I'll just go ahead and do it. 2014-03-26T14:00:03Z przl joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:01:01Z xan_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-26T14:01:35Z pjb: prxq: I would try very hard not to have to use it… 2014-03-26T14:02:51Z aftershave joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:03:22Z Mya19 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:03:49Z TristamWrk quit (Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...) 2014-03-26T14:04:22Z Mya19 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-26T14:04:25Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T14:04:33Z prxq: pjb: why? 2014-03-26T14:05:11Z mcsontos quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-26T14:05:28Z mcsontos joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:05:45Z OldK` quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T14:05:51Z pjb: Because that goes outside of the usual semantics of the lisp reader and package system. So for example, tools such as documentation extractors, editors, etc, will have difficulties with it, not mentionning the programmers. 2014-03-26T14:06:43Z pjb: H4ns: Hopefully, skipping eclm2014 will leave 2 or 3 more free days per ~100 lispers, that is it frees ~200-300 man.day, so they may prepare lisp applications and papers for next year :-) 2014-03-26T14:10:31Z H4ns: pjb: hopefully they also spend some time successfully lobbying bosses and investors to use lisp for their awesome new product. 2014-03-26T14:12:10Z strg joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:16:26Z cpc26 quit 2014-03-26T14:17:01Z Jayk97 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-26T14:18:54Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:21:07Z Kruppe quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2014-03-26T14:21:15Z SeanTAllen joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:21:37Z Mathieu quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T14:22:50Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:23:42Z Kruppe joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:24:46Z Mathieu joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:27:08Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T14:27:16Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-26T14:27:57Z Joreji_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T14:28:57Z p_nathan joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:29:17Z TristamWrk joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:29:17Z TristamWrk quit (Changing host) 2014-03-26T14:29:17Z TristamWrk joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:30:28Z blackwolf joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:31:07Z Malice joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:31:37Z dkordic joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:32:31Z Krystof: prxq: another approach would be to use the reader syntax available in some places for changing the current package with form scope 2014-03-26T14:32:47Z Krystof: e.g. foobar:(f (g 5)) 2014-03-26T14:33:01Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T14:33:05Z Krystof: I think this probably works best if FOOBAR is a package which uses FOO (the package you actually care about) 2014-03-26T14:33:39Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:34:15Z Kneferilis joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:34:44Z ivan4th quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T14:35:43Z Jayk97 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:36:27Z ustunozgur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T14:36:43Z prxq: Krystof: interesting, thanks. 2014-03-26T14:37:57Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:38:57Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:39:58Z zymurgy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T14:43:00Z Jubb quit (Quit: Jubb) 2014-03-26T14:43:00Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:43:23Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:43:27Z Jubb joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:45:56Z xan_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:49:23Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:52:12Z _5kg quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T14:55:53Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:55:58Z bobbysmith007 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:56:16Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:56:16Z sohail quit (Changing host) 2014-03-26T14:56:16Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:56:21Z cross_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T14:58:27Z Krystof_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T14:59:37Z Krystof quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T15:01:37Z nilsi____ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T15:02:12Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:02:20Z nilsi_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T15:02:21Z ramkrsna joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:02:37Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:02:41Z _5kg joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:06:11Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T15:06:40Z cross joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:08:15Z zjxv joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:09:51Z kpreid quit (Quit: Quitting) 2014-03-26T15:10:11Z nffff quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-26T15:10:14Z kpreid joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:10:17Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T15:10:43Z Poenikatu joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:10:43Z Poenikatu quit (Changing host) 2014-03-26T15:10:43Z Poenikatu joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:11:45Z nipra quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-26T15:12:41Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-26T15:14:02Z ASau joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:14:17Z xan_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T15:14:19Z brandonz joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:14:46Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:17:28Z przl joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:18:40Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:20:06Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2014-03-26T15:20:18Z ckoch786 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:20:32Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:20:57Z yrk quit (Changing host) 2014-03-26T15:20:58Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:21:36Z rune1 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:23:07Z easye: Is there a way in the ASDF config DSL to tell that DEFSYSTEM "FOO" resides in bar.asd? 2014-03-26T15:23:31Z easye: (like one could do with symlinks in the *CENTRAL-REGISTRY* farm? 2014-03-26T15:24:03Z Xach: easye: I don't think I've heard of that. But a system defined in bar.asd named bar/foo would be automatically found by asdf in that file. 2014-03-26T15:24:15Z Xach: Those slashed names cause plenty of problems with quicklisp, though. 2014-03-26T15:24:42Z easye: Xach: right, which is why I'm avoiding them until y'all figure things out. 2014-03-26T15:25:28Z easye: Is there a technical term for "bar/foo"? A subordinate ASDF definition or something? 2014-03-26T15:26:18Z copec: arbitrary1/arbitrary2 2014-03-26T15:26:27Z Xach: I think there is a technical term, but I don't remember it. Secondary system or something. 2014-03-26T15:26:38Z Xach: where bar is the primary. 2014-03-26T15:26:47Z p_nathan quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-26T15:26:57Z fe[nl]ix: easye: if you want to put multiple systems in the same file, that's the way 2014-03-26T15:27:10Z fe[nl]ix: easye: see iolib.asd 2014-03-26T15:27:27Z easye: No occurrence of "secondary" in asdf.info 2014-03-26T15:27:37Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:27:37Z pranavrc quit (Changing host) 2014-03-26T15:27:37Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:27:55Z cross quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T15:28:09Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:28:11Z easye: fe[nl]ix: thanks. I was just wondering if there was a way to get the old symlink farm behavior via the config DSL. 2014-03-26T15:28:56Z xificurC quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-26T15:29:37Z easye: BTW, Xach, did you optimize loading of Quicklisp sometime in the last couple of months? My "load quicklisp" has dropped to half of what it was three months ago from what I remmber. 2014-03-26T15:29:57Z Xach: No, nothing new. Did you optimize abcl? 2014-03-26T15:30:00Z easye: (this is only really noticible on a "slow lisp" like abcl 2014-03-26T15:30:07Z easye: Yeah, something optimized ABCL. 2014-03-26T15:30:22Z Xach: I did make some big changes in january, but nothing that would have made it load faster. 2014-03-26T15:30:37Z easye: setup.lisp is loading in 5s wheraeas previously it was on the order of 10s 2014-03-26T15:30:41Z Xach: weird. 2014-03-26T15:30:54Z easye: If I get the time, I'll try to figure out if it was "you" or "us" 2014-03-26T15:31:09Z ggole: Is it just ABCL? If so, did you upgrade your JVM? 2014-03-26T15:31:11Z jdz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-26T15:31:14Z Xach: Did you accidentally buy a new, twice-as-fast computer? 2014-03-26T15:31:35Z easye: ggole: there are many factors like JVMs that I would have to figure out. 2014-03-26T15:31:59Z easye: But now, I am pleased to say that Quicklisp is quite a bit more "Bear-able" for me... 2014-03-26T15:32:05Z easye: (it was always necessary) 2014-03-26T15:32:16Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:32:17Z Xach groans, cheers 2014-03-26T15:32:25Z easye: JDK8 is quite fast. 2014-03-26T15:36:53Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:39:01Z cross joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:39:01Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T15:40:05Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-26T15:41:08Z joneshf-laptop_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T15:41:37Z gendl quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-26T15:44:47Z TristamWrk quit (Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...) 2014-03-26T15:47:22Z tajjada joined 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seconds) 2014-03-26T17:35:48Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-26T17:36:07Z sauerkrause is now known as krause 2014-03-26T17:37:38Z rune1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T17:37:48Z krause is now known as sauerkrause 2014-03-26T17:38:08Z jaimef joined #lisp 2014-03-26T17:38:43Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2014-03-26T17:38:58Z samebchase: Hi, I'm trying to learn CFFI, so that I can write bindings to a C library. From what I can gather, I have to define all the structures that are passed to or returned from functions of the library's API and then cffi:defcfun all the API's functions. Is this right? 2014-03-26T17:40:56Z oGMo: samebchase: yes, or, shameless plug, try c2ffi + cl-autowrap and don't do any of that by hand heh 2014-03-26T17:41:05Z oGMo: samebchase: https://github.com/rpav/cl-autowrap 2014-03-26T17:41:32Z ustunozgur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T17:41:33Z oGMo: it's built on low-level CFFI-SYS so anywhere CFFI works, autowrap works 2014-03-26T17:42:27Z samebchase: nice 2014-03-26T17:43:07Z samebchase: checking that out 2014-03-26T17:43:37Z oGMo: we used it for cl-sdl2 and some other things .. you as the project maintainer need clang/llvm for c2ffi, but none of your users will 2014-03-26T17:44:07Z PuffTheMagic joined #lisp 2014-03-26T17:44:50Z samebchase: do I need to build the library I'm using with clang++, or is it only required to build c2ffi 2014-03-26T17:45:22Z oGMo: samebchase: only for c2ffi, which just does header parsing 2014-03-26T17:46:21Z samebchase: the CFFI manual doesn't specify how a pointer to a function should be defined, how would I do that? 2014-03-26T17:46:56Z drewc: pointer does not care where it points to? 2014-03-26T17:47:06Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-03-26T17:47:22Z drewc is on his first cup-o-joe so may not be sane yet 2014-03-26T17:47:25Z mcsontos quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-26T17:47:37Z tensorpudding quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T17:47:39Z oGMo: samebchase: pointer to a function? 2014-03-26T17:47:44Z samebchase: yeah 2014-03-26T17:48:07Z oGMo: in normal CFFI most things are just :pointer, i don't think it deals with them specially 2014-03-26T17:48:26Z oGMo: and you can foreign-funcall-pointer or something 2014-03-26T17:48:32Z drewc: pointers point, they do not care which address they point to... or what is at that address. 2014-03-26T17:48:45Z oGMo: if you need to make a lisp function to be called from C, and get that pointer, you need DEFCALLBACK and CALLBACK 2014-03-26T17:49:04Z lduros` quit (Read error: No route to host) 2014-03-26T17:49:29Z samebchase: int (*foo)(int); would be what in CFFI ? 2014-03-26T17:49:35Z oGMo: :pointer 2014-03-26T17:50:14Z samebchase: okay, so just a :pointer 2014-03-26T17:50:17Z oGMo: if you foreign-funcall-pointer it, you'd need to specify the return type and argument types when you do so 2014-03-26T17:50:36Z samebchase: okay 2014-03-26T17:51:25Z Harag quit (Read error: No route to host) 2014-03-26T17:51:58Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-03-26T17:52:12Z pranavrc quit (Quit: Ping timeout: âž) 2014-03-26T17:53:40Z samebchase: I don't have llvm 3.5, I'll install it now 2014-03-26T17:55:57Z zjxv joined #lisp 2014-03-26T17:56:06Z samebchase: oh there's an llvm 3.4 branch good 2014-03-26T17:56:36Z oGMo: yeah i recommend 3.4 heh 2014-03-26T17:57:04Z zjxv quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-26T17:57:31Z CrazyWoods: http://dpaste.com/1757809/ quickload with error, any idea? 2014-03-26T17:59:58Z lduros joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:02:23Z samebchase: CrazyWoods: Are you behind a proxy? 2014-03-26T18:04:37Z CrazyWoods: samebchase: no 2014-03-26T18:05:08Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T18:05:30Z samebchase: hm 2014-03-26T18:06:08Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T18:07:41Z CrazyWoods: samebchase: :) 2014-03-26T18:08:23Z samebchase: It's working now? 2014-03-26T18:09:08Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2014-03-26T18:10:16Z CrazyWoods: samebchase: no 2014-03-26T18:11:20Z przl quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-26T18:11:33Z loicbsd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T18:11:37Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:12:22Z samebchase: I mean, I don't know what could be causing that. You are obviously connected to the internet, but ... 2014-03-26T18:15:06Z loicbsd joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:15:46Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-26T18:16:01Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-26T18:16:21Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:17:03Z nilsi_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T18:18:03Z kobain quit 2014-03-26T18:18:11Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:19:15Z Joreji_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:19:24Z bocaneri quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T18:20:20Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T18:20:38Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:22:51Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:22:53Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T18:23:56Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-26T18:24:04Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:24:05Z ckoch786 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T18:25:01Z Fullma quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T18:25:44Z doomlord___ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-26T18:26:06Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:26:32Z doomlord_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:27:49Z Okasu quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-26T18:28:08Z Xach: CrazyWoods: are you in europe? 2014-03-26T18:29:47Z matija joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:30:02Z CrazyWoods: Xach: China 2014-03-26T18:33:31Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-26T18:36:40Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:36:42Z Fullma joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:36:54Z Xach: I suspect local network configuration. 2014-03-26T18:36:59Z Xach: local as in local to china 2014-03-26T18:37:05Z seangrove quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T18:37:15Z Xach: CrazyWoods: are you able to fetch http://beta.quicklisp.org/quicklisp.lisp? 2014-03-26T18:37:16Z atgreen quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-26T18:37:37Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:37:53Z atgreen joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:38:23Z eudoxia quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-26T18:38:44Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-26T18:39:03Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:39:40Z Houl joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:41:24Z joneshf-laptop_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T18:42:06Z CrazyWoods: Xach: yes 2014-03-26T18:42:08Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T18:42:36Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:44:29Z cpc26 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:45:15Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:45:25Z CrazyWoods quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-26T18:45:56Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:46:00Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:46:34Z CrazyWoods joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:47:46Z Xach: Ok. Well, wookie is stored on beta.quicklisp.org too. 2014-03-26T18:48:13Z Xach: What do you get from (ql-dist::archive-url (ql-dist:release "wookie")) ? 2014-03-26T18:49:17Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T18:49:41Z Fullma quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T18:53:11Z innertracks quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T18:55:25Z cpc26 quit 2014-03-26T18:56:33Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T18:58:24Z wgreenhouse quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T18:58:25Z sykopomp` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T18:58:27Z Denommus` joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:58:49Z wgreenhouse joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:58:51Z sykopomp` joined #lisp 2014-03-26T18:59:38Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T19:02:01Z mordocai quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-26T19:02:28Z tensorpudding joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:03:41Z ngz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T19:04:04Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:05:16Z TeMPOraL joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:05:57Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T19:09:58Z oconnore quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T19:12:22Z TeMPOraL quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-26T19:13:42Z rune1 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:15:16Z Poenikatu: Has anybody succeeded in loading McCLIM into LispWorks? 2014-03-26T19:18:07Z nha joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:18:08Z sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 2014-03-26T19:19:29Z Poenikatu: I know that LispWorks has its own implementation of the CLIM Spec 2.0, but I feel that if I were using McCLIM, I could definitely make any software I produce, available with the GPL 2014-03-26T19:20:16Z Code_Man` joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:20:33Z Poenikatu: Furthermore, the hello-world.lisp file containing the code in the CLIM user guide does *not* produce the same result with the LispWorks CLIM as by McCLIM 2014-03-26T19:21:34Z Odin- quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T19:22:19Z Vivitron quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T19:22:23Z Xach: Only one person has made a useful program with CLIM and that person went mad immediately afterwards. 2014-03-26T19:22:42Z phadthai: heh 2014-03-26T19:24:21Z CrazyWoods: Xach: "http://beta.quicklisp.org/archive/wookie/2014-03-16/wookie-20140316-git.tgz" 2014-03-26T19:24:55Z Shinmera: Xach: What program was that? 2014-03-26T19:25:36Z Bike: an interactive guide to learning Aklo. probably a coincidence 2014-03-26T19:26:19Z Xach: CrazyWoods: can you fetch that? 2014-03-26T19:28:57Z bgs100 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:31:22Z AGinsberg quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T19:33:14Z dkcl quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-26T19:33:27Z Vivitron joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:34:09Z AGinsberg joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:35:33Z strg joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:36:08Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T19:38:23Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:39:53Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:41:13Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T19:44:41Z nug700 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:45:29Z b80905` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T19:45:30Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:46:03Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:48:19Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:50:08Z TeMPOraL joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:50:26Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T19:53:32Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2014-03-26T19:56:22Z yacks quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-26T19:58:06Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-26T19:58:26Z pnpuff left #lisp 2014-03-26T19:59:55Z Denommus` is now known as Denommus 2014-03-26T20:00:53Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T20:04:02Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T20:04:51Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T20:10:53Z Krystof_ quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-26T20:12:33Z Crystal29 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T20:13:21Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2014-03-26T20:13:33Z Crystal29 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-26T20:13:54Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T20:14:05Z MightyJoe quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T20:14:30Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-03-26T20:14:48Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-26T20:14:49Z MightyJoe joined #lisp 2014-03-26T20:16:02Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-26T20:17:43Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T20:18:27Z foreignFunction quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-26T20:21:05Z gabe_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T20:22:08Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T20:23:05Z solrize joined #lisp 2014-03-26T20:23:23Z solrize: anyone know what happened to tunes.org ? it's been down for a while 2014-03-26T20:23:39Z solrize: hmm main tunes.org is up, clicki.tunes.org is down. 2014-03-26T20:23:41Z solrize: cliki 2014-03-26T20:24:24Z gabe_ quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-26T20:24:33Z antoszka: solrize: Try: http://tunes.org/cliki/ 2014-03-26T20:25:19Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-26T20:27:37Z zeleiadi joined #lisp 2014-03-26T20:27:48Z solrize: thanks, found it. i had followed a cliki link and had it hang, before noticing the parent site was up 2014-03-26T20:27:57Z dstatyvka joined #lisp 2014-03-26T20:29:19Z DrCode joined #lisp 2014-03-26T20:31:07Z PuercoPop: I'm having problems with using optima, it complains that what I treat as least items is not of type list. https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/9792537 2014-03-26T20:32:06Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-26T20:34:23Z jangle joined #lisp 2014-03-26T20:34:50Z jaimef: OMG I love this stuff 2014-03-26T20:35:04Z solrize: you mean tunes? 2014-03-26T20:35:17Z samebchase: PuercoPop: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141509 2014-03-26T20:36:13Z samebchase: that may/(may not) help 2014-03-26T20:36:36Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-26T20:37:19Z samebchase: PuercoPop: remove the "." 2014-03-26T20:37:31Z doomlord_ left #lisp 2014-03-26T20:37:46Z samebchase: if you want a dotted pair, do (cons digest first) 2014-03-26T20:38:17Z TeMPOraL quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-26T20:40:36Z Krystof_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T20:40:46Z ggole quit 2014-03-26T20:41:12Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2014-03-26T20:42:18Z joast quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T20:42:37Z PuercoPop: hmm samebchase I am not trying to flatten it, just split it a la destructuring bind. And in this case it appears to be complaining that 'first is not a list' when AFAIU first is just a name to bind to 2014-03-26T20:42:40Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T20:42:46Z Krystof_: funnily enough I was just reflecting on my previous CLIM experience, as I mess around with emacs-based user interfaces 2014-03-26T20:46:02Z PuercoPop: samebchase: nvm I see what you mean with the '.' Silly mistake on my part 2014-03-26T20:46:10Z drewc is using DREI and ESA right now, but stays away from CLIM at all, just the buffers. 2014-03-26T20:46:17Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T20:48:57Z zajn quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T20:49:31Z Krystof_: buffers are definitely nice 2014-03-26T20:50:41Z jangle quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T20:53:32Z Houl quit (Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist) 2014-03-26T20:55:11Z sandbender1512 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T20:56:51Z Krystof_ is now known as Krystof 2014-03-26T21:00:28Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:00:41Z MjrTom joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:00:50Z Joreji_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T21:00:53Z ustunozgur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T21:01:30Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:02:09Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T21:02:19Z gendl quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-26T21:04:46Z jangle joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:04:49Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:08:07Z Pullphinger quit 2014-03-26T21:08:35Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-26T21:11:06Z Ralt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T21:12:19Z przl joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:13:13Z MjrTom quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T21:13:42Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T21:15:06Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:15:21Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:16:01Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-26T21:16:07Z bjz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T21:17:47Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-26T21:19:12Z Fullma joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:19:20Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:19:45Z oconnore joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:19:55Z drewc: Krystof: yeah, I needed a buffer, and there it was. There are probably some other climacs-related libs I will use, but that already saved me 2 months worth of work and got me further along.... yay buffers! 2014-03-26T21:22:21Z lduros quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T21:22:29Z AdmiralBumbleBee left #lisp 2014-03-26T21:23:20Z lduros joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:24:03Z kliph quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T21:27:37Z zeleiadi quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-03-26T21:30:33Z madalu joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:35:51Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:38:23Z mindCrime quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T21:38:55Z Vivitron` joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:38:57Z Vivitron quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-26T21:40:02Z rune1 quit (Quit: rune1) 2014-03-26T21:45:08Z ltbarcly_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:45:33Z ltbarcly_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T21:47:01Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T21:47:38Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T21:49:26Z TeMPOraL joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:50:32Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:53:25Z Shinmera quit (Quit: brb) 2014-03-26T21:53:48Z zajn joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:54:00Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-03-26T21:56:23Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T21:57:31Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-26T22:01:56Z Shinmera quit (Quit: brb) 2014-03-26T22:02:29Z matija quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T22:02:41Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:03:32Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T22:04:50Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:06:33Z drmeister: Oh great and fearsome Lisp wizards - If I have a list of lists ((a1 a2 ...) (b1 b2 ... ) (c1 c2 ...) ) and I want to reorganize them (a1 b1 c1 a2 b2 c2 a3 b3 c3 ...) is there a quick way to do that with MAP or something like that. 2014-03-26T22:08:44Z prxq: drmeister: yes! :-) 2014-03-26T22:08:45Z drmeister is trying to write one right but if someone knows the solution - I'd really appreciate it - I only need to do this once to track down a tricky bug in my code. 2014-03-26T22:10:01Z prxq: (apply #'append (apply #'mapcar #'list '((a1 a2 a3) (b1 b2 b3) (c1 c2 3)))) ;; like this 2014-03-26T22:12:13Z PuercoPop: drmeister: it is also one quick loop away http://paste.lisp.org/+31ES 2014-03-26T22:12:16Z drmeister: I was about to try to flatten: (map 'list (lambda (v w x y z) (list v w x y z)) (first *l*) (second *l*) (third *l*) (fourth *l*) (fifth *l*)) 2014-03-26T22:12:29Z drmeister: I have five lists - I didn't mention that. 2014-03-26T22:13:02Z drmeister: Thank you - I'll do the loop one. 2014-03-26T22:13:25Z drmeister: prxq: I always forget that I can apply things like #'append - thanks. 2014-03-26T22:13:43Z |3b|: prxq: (apply 'mapcan 'list ...), don't need the outer append 2014-03-26T22:13:43Z drmeister is still a procedural programmer at heart. 2014-03-26T22:13:50Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:14:02Z easy-iPad joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:14:08Z prxq: |3b|: true! 2014-03-26T22:15:07Z easy-iPad: Sucks about eclm 2014. Might just show up in Berlin anyways… 2014-03-26T22:17:36Z ustunozgur quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-26T22:17:47Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:18:36Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:19:16Z drmeister: I have written a C++ static analyzer in my Common Lisp environment and the Clang AST matcher library is throwing an assertion failure in one of the last of 165 source files. It takes 5 hours to parse and search through all of the C++ code and so I broke the job up over 5 processes (using fork). I needed to reverse the 5 lists of files, and string them together as above so that I can search them all backwards and hopefully find the offend 2014-03-26T22:19:16Z drmeister: ing C++ source file. 2014-03-26T22:20:14Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:20:17Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:20:24Z impulse joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:20:50Z Fare joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:22:29Z Fare: hi 2014-03-26T22:22:46Z Fare: when you write 10.0, what type do you expect? 2014-03-26T22:23:05Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T22:23:13Z _death: the one specified by *read-default-float-format* 2014-03-26T22:23:39Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:24:05Z _death: but practically, single-float :) 2014-03-26T22:24:08Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T22:24:11Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec) 2014-03-26T22:26:18Z therik quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-26T22:26:35Z ustunozg_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:26:52Z |3b|: yeah, single float unless configured otherwise (or when using forth) 2014-03-26T22:27:36Z |3b| would not expect things to be configured otherwise in general though 2014-03-26T22:29:05Z waa joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:29:56Z ustunozgur quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T22:30:59Z drewc: A string! <---- web, textarea, etc 2014-03-26T22:31:02Z Denommus quit (Quit: going home) 2014-03-26T22:31:14Z drewc needs to take a break from working! 2014-03-26T22:31:26Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-26T22:31:56Z easy-iPad quit (Quit: Outta here?) 2014-03-26T22:32:59Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:34:30Z Vivitron` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-26T22:34:46Z ehu` joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:35:20Z nisstyre joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:36:19Z Vivitron joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:36:27Z s00pcan joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:37:13Z vaporatorius quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2014-03-26T22:37:48Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T22:39:55Z loicbsd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T22:44:47Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T22:45:33Z ltbarcly_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:46:01Z Malice quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T22:46:37Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T22:49:06Z knob3212 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:49:18Z dkordic quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2014-03-26T22:49:51Z jangle quit (Quit: jangle) 2014-03-26T22:50:16Z jangle joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:50:25Z Lara19 joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:51:25Z Lara19 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-26T22:51:31Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-26T22:53:28Z bjz joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:53:32Z joast joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:53:36Z ltbarcly_ quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-03-26T22:54:04Z KCL joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:55:28Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-03-26T22:56:03Z knob3212 left #lisp 2014-03-26T22:56:19Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-26T22:56:28Z knob is now known as Guest65086 2014-03-26T22:56:53Z ehu` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T22:56:55Z Jayk97 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-26T22:57:34Z zarul quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-26T23:00:08Z joast quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T23:00:14Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-26T23:01:19Z ustunozg_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T23:02:06Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-26T23:03:31Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-26T23:04:27Z gmcastil joined #lisp 2014-03-26T23:07:19Z ustunozgur quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-03-26T23:07:24Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-26T23:13:42Z MoALTz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-26T23:15:11Z user3298 quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-26T23:16:15Z dstatyvka left #lisp 2014-03-26T23:16:39Z Shinmera quit (Quit: ZzzZZz) 2014-03-26T23:17:41Z wheelsucker joined #lisp 2014-03-26T23:18:31Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-26T23:21:04Z sauerkrause is now known as mokolull 2014-03-26T23:22:12Z wgl quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1) 2014-03-26T23:24:03Z Poenikatu: Who is responsible for the common-lisp.net web-site? Whenever I click on a mailing list link, my browser tells me that the page is not found. 2014-03-26T23:25:29Z Code_Man` joined #lisp 2014-03-26T23:26:00Z Poenikatu: Furthermore, it appears that all the projects have not been touched for at least 8 years. Does that mean that the projects are now defunct? 2014-03-26T23:26:31Z kliph joined #lisp 2014-03-26T23:27:01Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T23:28:06Z prxq: Poenikatu: unfortunately, common-lisp.net has fallen into (hopefully temporary) disarray 2014-03-26T23:28:48Z strg quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com) 2014-03-26T23:28:54Z prxq: It should recover soonish. If I read the winds correctly, during this year, even. 2014-03-26T23:29:22Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-03-26T23:29:25Z joast joined #lisp 2014-03-26T23:30:33Z Poenikatu: prxq: What makes you say that? 2014-03-26T23:31:26Z Poenikatu: I was wondering whether there had been any progress with the clim-desktop project? 2014-03-26T23:31:51Z Poenikatu: I never did discover what swine was 2014-03-26T23:31:56Z madalu quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-26T23:31:57Z bjz_ joined #lisp 2014-03-26T23:32:00Z bjz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-26T23:32:19Z segv- quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-26T23:35:44Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-26T23:38:36Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-26T23:39:54Z zajn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T23:41:37Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T23:44:02Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-26T23:52:37Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T23:52:49Z nha quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T23:59:48Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-27T00:00:18Z drmeister quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T00:00:26Z zajn joined #lisp 2014-03-27T00:02:16Z JuanitoJons quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-27T00:02:44Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-27T00:03:17Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-27T00:03:18Z Betty26 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T00:04:18Z Betty26 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T00:04:48Z wheelsucker quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T00:05:19Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-27T00:07:07Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-27T00:08:31Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-27T00:08:51Z nisstyre quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-27T00:10:48Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-27T00:11:41Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-27T00:13:23Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-27T00:14:43Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp 2014-03-27T00:16:05Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-03-27T00:18:00Z Poenikatu left #lisp 2014-03-27T00:18:17Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T00:19:15Z nand1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T00:19:27Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T00:20:12Z drewc: Poenikatu: apparently there are tonnes of such things... can you give me a URL that fails? 2014-03-27T00:20:28Z drewc: or leave first ... dang. 2014-03-27T00:24:04Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-27T00:25:25Z shridhar quit (Quit: shridhar) 2014-03-27T00:28:25Z Adlai quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T00:30:55Z brandonz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T00:34:29Z PuffTheMagic quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-27T00:34:35Z varjag_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-27T00:35:19Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-27T00:38:24Z TDog joined #lisp 2014-03-27T00:41:50Z Adlai joined #lisp 2014-03-27T00:42:59Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2014-03-27T00:43:49Z nisstyre joined #lisp 2014-03-27T00:45:37Z eudoxia quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T00:45:38Z lduros quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T00:48:47Z mokolull is now known as sauerkrause 2014-03-27T00:50:59Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-27T00:51:00Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T00:51:01Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-27T00:56:39Z mathrick: any idea how Allegro and LW are built? Are they bootstrapping on any CL like SBCL? Incrementally morphing by self-modification like CMUCL? 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2014-03-27T06:21:07Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-03-27T06:26:37Z Fare joined #lisp 2014-03-27T06:29:12Z CrazyWoo1s: What does Greenspun's tenth rule of programming means? 2014-03-27T06:29:47Z PuercoPop: CrazyWoo1s: I think it means if you don't use CL in a large program you end up implementing it halfassed. 2014-03-27T06:30:04Z schaueho joined #lisp 2014-03-27T06:30:27Z PuercoPop: IIRC Greenspun laments saying that quote as he feels it overshadows his accomplishments 2014-03-27T06:30:39Z PuercoPop: *says 2014-03-27T06:32:01Z round-robin left #lisp 2014-03-27T06:33:18Z Guest35333 quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-27T06:33:19Z CrazyWoo1s quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-27T06:33:37Z CrazyWoods joined #lisp 2014-03-27T06:33:43Z mishoo joined #lisp 2014-03-27T06:34:39Z CrazyWoods: then what is the theoretically necessary to write a complex computer program 2014-03-27T06:37:57Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T06:38:52Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-03-27T06:40:13Z mcsontos quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-27T06:40:25Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec) 2014-03-27T06:40:40Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-03-27T06:40:40Z mrSpec quit (Changing host) 2014-03-27T06:40:40Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-03-27T06:40:55Z p_nathan: this may be of use, CrazyWoods - http://www.jucs.org/jucs_2_11/conditional_branching_is_not/Rojas_R.html. 2014-03-27T06:41:37Z CrazyWoods: p_nathan: thank you 2014-03-27T06:41:38Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T06:42:09Z ck_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T06:42:11Z CrazyWoods: i always struggle when make a decision about which language to choice for 2014-03-27T06:42:34Z p_nathan: in common practice it's not worth worrying about: generally the questions you ask have no relation to the minimal instructions needed for a turing machine. things like "does this language support closures? garbage collection? direct memory use? objects? multimethods? generics? continuations? threading?" tend to be more fruitful 2014-03-27T06:43:35Z jxv quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T06:44:40Z p_nathan: I would advise finding a project that will take several weeks with several hours per night and working on that in a language you pick. Make sure to bring the project to a working completion. Rinse, repeat for different languages. After you have spent quite a few hours with a variety of languages you will begin to understand the nuance. 2014-03-27T06:45:22Z p_nathan: then, it's better to master one language and understand its tradeoffs relating to others than to dabble in many and not really know any. 2014-03-27T06:47:03Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-27T06:50:02Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2014-03-27T06:50:03Z Mon_Ouie quit (Changing host) 2014-03-27T06:50:03Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2014-03-27T06:50:04Z CrazyWoods: p_nathan: i see, you are so kindly 2014-03-27T06:50:54Z MinnowTaur joined #lisp 2014-03-27T06:52:00Z CrazyWoods: p_nathan: some language are abvious to choice, while other are difficult to distinguish, like lisp & c++ & python & lua for web server api. c++ & java for game engine 2014-03-27T06:54:26Z p_nathan: I'm not sure I follow your meaning. Do you mean Lisp and C++ are difficult to choose between for a web server? If so, I would disagree loudly. :) 2014-03-27T06:55:03Z CrazyWoods: p_nathan: maybe lisp & python 2014-03-27T06:55:11Z MinnowTaur quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-27T06:55:49Z CrazyWoods: it's hard to me to choice the suitable language to do the special project :( 2014-03-27T06:55:53Z zajn_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T06:56:12Z p_nathan: Do a project with one, then do a project with the other. Then you will undertand the tradeoffs. 2014-03-27T06:56:53Z Fare joined #lisp 2014-03-27T06:57:02Z p_nathan: You may find that Common Lisp tools demand a slightly more indepth study in order to use quickly - Python has a very smooth road for web development. 2014-03-27T06:57:31Z CrazyWoods: p_nathan: then choice the one you think suitable after trying? 2014-03-27T06:58:08Z tajjada quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-27T06:58:33Z p_nathan: Exactly. For most projects, there are a wide variety of nuances, including (but not limited to): skill, experience, deadline, documentation, deployment platform, development platform, tooling, concepts required to build the project. Etc. 2014-03-27T06:59:02Z zajn quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T06:59:47Z Tristam quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-27T07:01:17Z CrazyWoods: which language is in your pocket? 2014-03-27T07:01:38Z _8680_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T07:01:44Z p_nathan: I don't understand. Could you rephrase that? 2014-03-27T07:02:29Z _8680_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:02:44Z prxq_ is now known as prxq 2014-03-27T07:02:45Z kami quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-27T07:02:51Z CrazyWoods: which language do you master 2014-03-27T07:04:02Z zajn joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:04:09Z p_nathan: Ah. I have spent roughly 5 years with Common Lisp now. I'm also passable at Python. 2014-03-27T07:04:57Z p_nathan: I am competent to write professionally (a lower bar than one would hope) in a *wide* variety of other languages, but I suppose Python and CL are my #1 languages. 2014-03-27T07:05:07Z phadthai: maybe other questions to help evaluate: is interactive development prefered? Is performance eventually important? Are there already libraries in a particular language you know and would like to use, which are harder to find an equivalence in another language and might need writing? 2014-03-27T07:05:50Z phadthai: ah and is security relevant (in which case some languages help you to shoot yourself in the foot more than others) 2014-03-27T07:06:00Z p_nathan: Quite correct! 2014-03-27T07:06:57Z zajn_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T07:08:40Z zajn_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:09:01Z OldK joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:10:06Z phadthai: and how low-level do you need to go (i.e. are you writing a jit-compiler or driver), and how high-level do you need to go (will you need to implement/support a higher-level language for configuration or user customization, if so, will you embed a language, write one, use the facilities of the existing one like with a lisp domain-specific-language) 2014-03-27T07:10:30Z mcsontos joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:11:33Z CrazyWoods: got it 2014-03-27T07:12:16Z zajn quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-27T07:12:54Z kami joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:12:58Z phadthai: even if deciding to use lisp, the implementation will also matter for those questions of course 2014-03-27T07:14:06Z PuercoPop: that is true in Python too, although most people default to CPython. 2014-03-27T07:14:57Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-27T07:15:24Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:15:32Z CrazyWoods: :) 2014-03-27T07:16:03Z jewel joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:16:46Z CrazyWoods: but it's true that have depth learning of lisp takes a long time 2014-03-27T07:17:58Z BrianRice quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T07:18:08Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T07:18:12Z p_nathan: IMO, any reasonably useful language takes years to understand in depth. Although I can poop out a quick tool in most anything. 2014-03-27T07:19:14Z CrazyWoods: ok 2014-03-27T07:19:35Z PuercoPop: That is true with any language, except that in the case of Python I dislike it more with time (when you learn that import is a goto and have to use the 'pattern' of importing inside the function definition to prevent 'recursive' imports) 2014-03-27T07:19:58Z BrianRice joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:20:24Z Beetny joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:20:39Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:21:17Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:21:58Z p_nathan: :-( And then it's nice to use Common Lisp, which is much more sane. IMO. :) 2014-03-27T07:22:14Z Zhivago: Well ... 2014-03-27T07:22:22Z Zhivago: CL has its own bag of insanity. 2014-03-27T07:22:27Z CrazyWoods: PuercoPop: yes 2014-03-27T07:23:22Z p_nathan: Zhivago: Well, yes. 2014-03-27T07:24:03Z arbscht quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-27T07:25:16Z arbscht joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:25:32Z xificurC joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:25:43Z nisstyre quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 2014-03-27T07:26:00Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:26:03Z Tristam joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:28:40Z Zhivago: My main grievance with python is its excess magicality. 2014-03-27T07:29:43Z Zhivago: My main grievance with CL is its inextensibility, the reader, the package system, pathnames, and type system. 2014-03-27T07:32:01Z samebchase: Pathnames for me 2014-03-27T07:32:25Z frkout_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T07:32:39Z PuercoPop: It seems to my the main thing that Python got right was "Every problem can be solved by an extra layer of indirection" so underscore methods provide that extra layer. 2014-03-27T07:32:58Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:33:25Z PuercoPop: Zhivago: could you expand on the package system and inextensiblity? I am fairly new to CL but stuff like Cells and Shepple makes CL look pretty extensible. 2014-03-27T07:33:31Z brandonz quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-27T07:33:56Z Zhivago: How do you add a new sequence type? :) 2014-03-27T07:34:12Z ggole: Or a new number type, or extend loop, or etc etc 2014-03-27T07:37:20Z PuercoPop: Zhivago: *nods* I see what you mean. Stuff like SBCL's user defined sequences happen in implementation specific additions. I think Franz adds 'sub-packages' to the package system also via the '.' character. 2014-03-27T07:38:18Z flip214: Help, please; I'm currently looking into a problem with ECL and closure-common. 2014-03-27T07:38:28Z p_nathan: I have an ad-hoc hacky version of sequences derived from Clojure's seq abstraction; I'll probably release it after I beat on it a while. 2014-03-27T07:38:29Z flip214: the ROD-READER runs function ROD on a string; this function has (cond ((stringp x) x)), so returns the same object. 2014-03-27T07:38:35Z flip214: now, cxml:internal-entdef has (value :type rod); rod is (vector 'rune), and rune is (vector 'character). 2014-03-27T07:38:42Z flip214: Does CL say that types that are "identical" (whatever that may mean) should be treated as identical? 2014-03-27T07:38:48Z flip214: Ie. is a SIMPLE-TYPE-ERROR wrong, if ":type rod" but the argument is a (simple-)string? 2014-03-27T07:39:49Z Fare: Zhivago, how do you like Racket? 2014-03-27T07:40:30Z Fare: regarding new sequence type ... it is easy enough to implement your own extensible sequences on top of CL... the problem is that none of the existing libraries will accept them. 2014-03-27T07:41:38Z p_nathan: :( 2014-03-27T07:41:51Z Fare: so a rune is a string? 2014-03-27T07:42:09Z p_nathan: If it works well enough, I might circulate it around and if it gets enough interest & the kinks ironed out enough, submit it as a CDR. 2014-03-27T07:42:18Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:42:31Z Fare: I thought a rune was a character. Or is this because it groups together character + diacritics in a single glyph? 2014-03-27T07:42:59Z Fare: p_nathan, what about making it part of lil? 2014-03-27T07:43:07Z Fare: lil could use a sequence interface. 2014-03-27T07:43:53Z p_nathan: I am OK with contributing implementations of it here and there once I am confident in its composability & usefulness for my code 2014-03-27T07:44:16Z Fare: p_nathan, lil sure makes algorithms more composable 2014-03-27T07:45:02Z p_nathan: well, I mean as an API - I've got first, rest, and a few other functions & macros that I've found needful, but maybe I can decompose them better or rearrange them. 2014-03-27T07:45:52Z p_nathan: More thought needs to go into it, that is mostly what I'm saying. 2014-03-27T07:47:06Z ramkrsna joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:47:06Z ramkrsna quit (Changing host) 2014-03-27T07:47:06Z ramkrsna joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:47:10Z xificurC quit (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 2014-03-27T07:47:40Z ferada: flip214: post code? (cxml::make-internal-entdef "foo") works for me 2014-03-27T07:48:01Z ferada: (on sbcl) 2014-03-27T07:50:17Z yacks quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T07:51:02Z Guest64817 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:51:48Z Guest64817 quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-27T07:51:57Z maxpeck quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T07:54:47Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-27T07:55:43Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-27T07:57:33Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-03-27T07:57:44Z Okasu joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:01:07Z joshe quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-27T08:06:20Z flip214: ferada: the problem is on ECL. 2014-03-27T08:07:24Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-27T08:08:15Z arenz joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:09:12Z axion quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 2014-03-27T08:09:30Z axion joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:10:51Z Fare joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:10:52Z Guest60674 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:10:57Z drl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T08:14:01Z therik joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:14:17Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T08:16:48Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:16:58Z ferada: flip214: you could check type relations for yourself, e.g. (subtypep '(simple-)string 'runes:rod) and (subtypep '(vector character) 'runes:rod) 2014-03-27T08:17:32Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T08:18:18Z arigoins quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-27T08:18:31Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-27T08:18:53Z p_nathan: Fare: this is my work so far on the sequence abstraction. It's really not up to par IMO, but I expect it to improve in conjunction with some other work I'm doing (which it was spun out of) https://github.com/pnathan/iterable 2014-03-27T08:20:57Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T08:21:06Z Fare: I recommend giving a look at scalaz, haskell, clojure, for APIs. 2014-03-27T08:21:17Z Fare: then porting to lil 2014-03-27T08:21:34Z Fare: lil already has some basic APIs, but needs more 2014-03-27T08:22:02Z p_nathan: yeah, I based it - roughly - off of Clojure and even more roughly, off of Haskell. 2014-03-27T08:22:16Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:22:19Z Fare: nice 2014-03-27T08:22:36Z Fare: what is clink? 2014-03-27T08:22:56Z Fare: lil has an iterator interface 2014-03-27T08:23:21Z Fare: both pure and stateful variants 2014-03-27T08:23:31Z drl joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:23:37Z Fare: plus automaically extracted OO, of course 2014-03-27T08:24:35Z p_nathan: clink is an incomple & slowly progressing project of mine - it's an caching in-memory database designed for doing data analytics work on larger-than-memory datasets. 2014-03-27T08:24:36Z aLmostHumAn joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:25:43Z cantstanya quit (Quit: k) 2014-03-27T08:26:21Z lisper29 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:26:35Z lisper29 left #lisp 2014-03-27T08:28:01Z frkout_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:28:05Z Fare: in-memory and larger-than-memory together smell bad 2014-03-27T08:28:15Z p_nathan: Don't they just, though? :) 2014-03-27T08:28:58Z p_nathan: The essential thing will have to be incredibly aggressive caching combined with incredibly aggressive lazy evaluation. 2014-03-27T08:30:04Z ggole: You had better start calling that passive-aggressive evaluation. 2014-03-27T08:30:25Z p_nathan: What I want to do is to be able to compute SQL queries (or something like them) against a combination of in-memory, on-disk, and network resources. JOIN, GROUP BY, etc. 2014-03-27T08:30:31Z waisl joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:30:42Z p_nathan: Oh, and have reasonable performance after I execute an index on these tables. 2014-03-27T08:31:27Z frkout_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T08:32:01Z p_nathan: Probably should ask for a unicorn too, why not. But I've had to do this sort of query from time to time and I simply have not encountered solutions that could handle it in a reasonably programmatic way. I have a notion some of the Microsoft BI tooling can do it, but (1) MSSQL and (2) ain't that rich. 2014-03-27T08:32:02Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-27T08:32:42Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:32:50Z Fare: p_nathan, seen datomic ? 2014-03-27T08:33:48Z p_nathan: Yes! 2014-03-27T08:43:53Z varjag joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:45:09Z H4ns: p_nathan: rdf stores do such things, too. 2014-03-27T08:45:43Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-27T08:46:59Z p_l: RDF stores are in a way more "generic", but there is a lot of differences between feature sets outside of basic SPARQL 2014-03-27T08:47:49Z H4ns: of course. i did not want to lobby for allegrograph explicitly, but it can do things like federation, on-disk+in-memory searches, indexing 2014-03-27T08:48:06Z p_l: that said, probably some of the best tools for handling variably structured data 2014-03-27T08:48:15Z p_l: H4ns: personally I just lobby for AGraph :P 2014-03-27T08:49:18Z p_l: technically you can get similar featureset 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CrazyWoods: Just learning lisp or use it? 2014-03-27T12:32:06Z Xach: CrazyWoods: did you get your quicklisp fetching straightened out? 2014-03-27T12:32:56Z pranavrc quit 2014-03-27T12:33:08Z CrazyWoods: Xach: yes 2014-03-27T12:33:35Z CrazyWoods: Xach: i install quicklisp with proxy while the proxy was down after installed, so... 2014-03-27T12:33:37Z cpc26 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T12:34:15Z CrazyWoods: Xach: i check the file .quicklisp/config/proxy-url.txt 2014-03-27T12:34:23Z Xach: ah 2014-03-27T12:34:38Z sirdancealot quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T12:36:34Z CrazyWoods: Xach: how long have you played with lisp? 2014-03-27T12:39:04Z Xach: CrazyWoods: since 2000 or so 2014-03-27T12:39:12Z CrazyWoods: Xach: wow 2014-03-27T12:39:22Z vxe`` joined #lisp 2014-03-27T12:39:29Z Xach: maybe a little earlier. philip greenspun kept calling Tcl "a brain-dead lisp with stupid syntax" 2014-03-27T12:39:54Z CrazyWoods: Xach: which is your master language? 2014-03-27T12:40:30Z Xach: I'm not sure what that means...what is a master language? 2014-03-27T12:41:06Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T12:41:22Z przl joined #lisp 2014-03-27T12:41:37Z CrazyWoods: Xach: more experience 2014-03-27T12:41:42Z ngz joined #lisp 2014-03-27T12:42:29Z Xach: I have the most experience in Common Lisp. 2014-03-27T12:43:02Z Sgeo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T12:43:11Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2014-03-27T12:44:55Z CrazyWoods: Xach: do you use it in production? 2014-03-27T12:45:02Z spacefrogg joined #lisp 2014-03-27T12:45:50Z Xach: Yes. 2014-03-27T12:46:26Z pjb: CrazyWoods: Paul Graham sold ViaWeb (written in Lisp) for several millions to yahoo. ITA software (written in Lisp) was bought by Google for several billion. What more do you want to know? 2014-03-27T12:46:47Z splittist: CrazyWoods: Xach is the proprietor of Wigflip Industries, which makes him the Bruce Wayne of Common Lisp. Wigflip is basically Tencent without the listing problems. 2014-03-27T12:48:32Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-27T12:49:13Z CrazyWoods: splittist: Tencent? 2014-03-27T12:49:21Z CrazyWoods: pjb: :) 2014-03-27T12:51:09Z splittist: CrazyWoods: QQ etc. tencent.com 2014-03-27T12:51:21Z CrazyWoods: splittist: oh i see 2014-03-27T12:52:15Z hitecnologys_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T12:52:22Z splittist: I exaggerate a bit. 2014-03-27T12:52:42Z CrazyWoods: splittist: Are you Chinese? 2014-03-27T12:52:43Z hitecnologys quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-27T12:53:04Z splittist: Not today. 2014-03-27T12:53:32Z CrazyWoods: splittist: used to be? 2014-03-27T12:53:36Z maxpeck quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-03-27T12:56:11Z CrazyWoods: Xach: are you develop Wigflip? 2014-03-27T12:57:12Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-27T12:57:58Z Xach: CrazyWoods: yes 2014-03-27T12:58:16Z pjb: CrazyWoods: what's with the bullying? splittist told you so, and At the bottom of wigflip.com, it's written: "Created by Zach Beane · Powered by Common Lisp". What more do you want to know? 2014-03-27T12:58:43Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-27T12:58:46Z hitecnologys_ is now known as hitecnologys 2014-03-27T12:58:46Z Xach: pjb: Go away. 2014-03-27T12:59:08Z pjb: Have a good fame trip! :-) 2014-03-27T13:00:00Z H4ns: pjb: you poor boy. 2014-03-27T13:00:25Z Zhivago: I think you misspelt 700 million. 2014-03-27T13:00:52Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T13:04:04Z CrazyWoods: am i wrong? 2014-03-27T13:04:27Z Xach: CrazyWoods: no. 2014-03-27T13:05:25Z CrazyWoods: sorry for my foolish and pool English 2014-03-27T13:06:21Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T13:07:25Z Vivitron quit (Read error: No route to host) 2014-03-27T13:07:58Z sandbender1512 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:08:11Z Vivitron joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:08:11Z Vivitron quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T13:09:50Z Zhivago: Pool English is the best English. 2014-03-27T13:10:12Z Vivitron joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:11:17Z ck_: *puts ball back* "Twenty-Seven." 2014-03-27T13:12:34Z AGinsberg quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T13:12:38Z nipra quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-27T13:14:39Z Vivitron` joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:14:58Z AGinsberg joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:15:06Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:15:52Z ramkrsna quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-27T13:16:37Z Vivitron quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T13:21:00Z knob left #lisp 2014-03-27T13:22:11Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:22:12Z SHODAN quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T13:23:58Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:24:17Z SHODAN joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:26:33Z pjb: H4ns: :-) 2014-03-27T13:26:48Z kliph quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-27T13:27:29Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:27:29Z pranavrc quit (Changing host) 2014-03-27T13:27:29Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:33:01Z segv- joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:35:05Z amadsen joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:35:08Z lyanchih__ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:35:28Z ngz` joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:36:17Z waa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T13:36:37Z ngz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T13:44:50Z cpc26 quit 2014-03-27T13:44:58Z developernotes joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:48:16Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T13:58:16Z nilsi__ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T14:00:57Z ahungry_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T14:01:47Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T14:06:42Z eudoxia quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-27T14:08:37Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-27T14:11:13Z yacks joined #lisp 2014-03-27T14:13:11Z BlankVerse joined #lisp 2014-03-27T14:14:07Z michael_lee joined #lisp 2014-03-27T14:17:52Z varjag quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-27T14:20:12Z mcsontos quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-27T14:27:46Z harish_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T14:30:08Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T14:32:03Z lyanchih__ quit (Quit: lyanchih__) 2014-03-27T14:32:15Z mindCrime joined #lisp 2014-03-27T14:32:40Z lyanchih__ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T14:35:26Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-27T14:37:49Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-03-27T14:40:24Z hrs joined #lisp 2014-03-27T14:41:32Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T14:42:02Z gigetoo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T14:44:16Z hrs quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-27T14:44:16Z gigetoo joined #lisp 2014-03-27T14:47:27Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-03-27T14:48:46Z Adlai quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T14:58:38Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T14:59:37Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-27T15:01:33Z Adlai joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:02:43Z bullone joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:04:31Z bullone quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-27T15:04:57Z bullone joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:06:52Z p_nathan quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-27T15:08:50Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T15:10:29Z bullone quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-27T15:11:03Z joneshf-laptop quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-27T15:15:23Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:15:59Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:16:28Z JuanitoJons quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T15:20:30Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:20:46Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:21:25Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:21:26Z jewel quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-27T15:21:30Z ngz` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T15:23:12Z mindCrime quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-27T15:23:55Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-27T15:24:41Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-27T15:26:23Z Asgeir joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:26:44Z ckoch786 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:26:54Z TeMPOraL: are there any built-in predicates to compare floats in CL? 2014-03-27T15:26:57Z Odin- joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:27:16Z TeMPOraL: sth like (pretty-much-equal-p float1 float2 significant-digits) 2014-03-27T15:28:24Z Xach: (wicked-equal f1 f2) 2014-03-27T15:28:28Z Xach: that is not a thing 2014-03-27T15:28:29Z H4ns: (< (abs (- float1 float2)) epsilon)? 2014-03-27T15:29:04Z TeMPOraL: H4ns: yeah, I just was curious if there's something in CL: 2014-03-27T15:29:39Z Odin-: Isn't it amusing how arithmetic, which everyone thinks computers do with perfect ease, is actually horribly complex? 2014-03-27T15:30:08Z H4ns: TeMPOraL: cl does not generally include things which are trivial to implement in terms of other primitives. 2014-03-27T15:30:14Z TeMPOraL: Odin-: it is; I still can't get my head around floats at times, and I've seen plenty mistakes made with them 2014-03-27T15:30:16Z dlowe: Heh. "fame" 2014-03-27T15:30:30Z H4ns: TeMPOraL: in particular if they are of limited universal utility 2014-03-27T15:30:47Z TeMPOraL: H4ns: ok 2014-03-27T15:30:48Z kiuma joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:31:01Z Xach: ...unless there was a body of existing code that required it from some preceding lisp 2014-03-27T15:31:11Z H4ns: of course. 2014-03-27T15:32:03Z Odin-: Backwards compatibility is always fun. 2014-03-27T15:32:40Z Odin-: That kind of looks like the main reason Common Lisp is as large as it is... 2014-03-27T15:34:23Z Xach: You don't have to look hard to find some geezer complain that it took all the good stuff out of ZetaLisp 2014-03-27T15:34:40Z therik quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T15:35:54Z fortitude joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:36:24Z Odin-: Xach: Which really only means it would've been even larger if they'd been more concerned about backwards compatibility... 2014-03-27T15:37:30Z Xach: The actual history as documented in the mailing lists is pretty fascinating. 2014-03-27T15:38:51Z Odin-: Hmm. 2014-03-27T15:39:11Z Odin-: I wonder how much actual source material about the development of Lisp is available. Should be quite a lot. 2014-03-27T15:39:12Z TeMPOraL: someone should make an ebook from that 2014-03-27T15:39:21Z Odin-: <-- Historian. 2014-03-27T15:39:24Z dbushenko joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:39:55Z Xach: http://www.saildart.org/%5BCOM,LSP%5D/ has some really raw, candid stuff 2014-03-27T15:40:09Z dlowe: someone could make an actual book from that 2014-03-27T15:40:29Z dlowe: it would probably be an interesting read, written in a biographical style 2014-03-27T15:41:21Z Odin-: I think the main problem is getting resources (read: funding) for the research needed. 2014-03-27T15:41:35Z Odin-: That's not really something you can easily do as a hobby project... 2014-03-27T15:41:36Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:41:50Z drmeister quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T15:42:00Z dbushenko left #lisp 2014-03-27T15:42:09Z Xach: step 1: get rich from a startup step 2: take N years off and write book 2014-03-27T15:42:12Z TeMPOraL: it could be quite educational; I remember reading Coders at Work and finding there some really insighful comments from people who remeber working with Lisp 40 years ago 2014-03-27T15:42:30Z TeMPOraL: you can learn a lot about how and why the world we see today came to be 2014-03-27T15:43:08Z Odin-: Xach: Problem is that the people with the temperament for historical research tend not to be people with the temperament to build successful companies... :p 2014-03-27T15:45:38Z Xach: we'll just see about that! 2014-03-27T15:46:42Z Odin-: Note that the phrasing allows for counterexamples. "Probably won't happen" isn't "can't be done". :D 2014-03-27T15:47:52Z Xach: RPG: "Do we trust Mathis to not blow it with the French? Is Fateman a total loser? How do we jettison Balzer?" 2014-03-27T15:48:21Z pjb: TeMPOraL: you know how many programming languages that have a pretty-much-equal-p or ≠operator? 2014-03-27T15:48:39Z TeMPOraL: pjb: I know zero 2014-03-27T15:49:34Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:50:08Z pjb: Right. 2014-03-27T15:50:18Z pjb: Odin-: that's where citizen revenue comes in. 2014-03-27T15:50:23Z Xach: No other languages have nreconc, either. 2014-03-27T15:50:40Z pjb: Of course, that's not a reason not to be better. 2014-03-27T15:50:55Z Xach: Asking on #lisp is a good way to find out of Common Lisp has something. 2014-03-27T15:50:56Z pjb: But I would advocate for the inclusion of realib into the CL numeric tower first. 2014-03-27T15:51:07Z pjb: In general I find using clhs a better way. 2014-03-27T15:51:31Z Asgeir: Hi! I have a problem with SLIME. When a lisp condition is raised, the sentence "error in process filter: Not connected" is shown in the minibuffer, SLDB is not run, and I have to press enter to get the REPL again. The completion (shown in the minibuffer) is disabled after that. I've uninstalled the whole SBCL/Quicklisp/SLIME system, removing every configuration or cache I had, then reinstalled Lisp the Good Way® but the error is still th 2014-03-27T15:51:35Z Odin-: pjb: 'citizen revenue' meaning basic income or thereabout? 2014-03-27T15:51:43Z pjb: Yes. 2014-03-27T15:51:47Z TeMPOraL was just being curious, after he saw somebody joking about prettymuchequalsp operator on the Interwebz 2014-03-27T15:51:58Z Asgeir: s/What shall I do/Can somebody help me, please/ 2014-03-27T15:52:03Z Odin-: pjb: Yes, that'd be a pretty good idea. 2014-03-27T15:52:38Z pjb: TeMPOraL: well, the point is that you can define it in CL, and it would be integrated into the language as smoothly as equalp or =. 2014-03-27T15:53:12Z Odin-: Asgeir: This happens on any condition? 2014-03-27T15:55:06Z pjb: You could write: (defvar *epsilon* 0.001) (defun ≠(a b) (< (abs (- a b)) *epsilon*)) (≠1/10 (+ 0.01 0.02 0.03 0.04)) --> t 2014-03-27T15:55:34Z Asgeir: It happens with simple-error, undefined-function error, undefined variable error, type error. 2014-03-27T15:56:08Z Asgeir: with error too 2014-03-27T15:56:10Z pjb: I had this problem with some implementations, but not recently, and never with sbcl. This is strange. 2014-03-27T15:58:01Z Asgeir: here's the *slime-events* buffer http://paste.lisp.org/display/141801 if needed. 2014-03-27T15:58:05Z Xach: Asgeir: what is the good way? 2014-03-27T15:58:41Z splittist: Wisdom of the Ancients: "The Lisp system can then provide a facility to make a saved lisp image which only contains objects actually referenced by the application. This is a fairly simple thing to do, being a modest extension of the garbage collector." 2014-03-27T15:58:59Z brandonz joined #lisp 2014-03-27T15:59:08Z Xach: SMOP 2014-03-27T15:59:32Z Asgeir: latest sbcl with my distribution's package manager, then quicklisp and quicklisp-slime-helper 2014-03-27T16:00:10Z Xach: Asgeir: i don't know if it's a problem in this case, but getting sbcl from the distro's package manager can sometimes cause problem. 2014-03-27T16:00:33Z Xach: sometimes it is too old (not in this case), and sometimes it pulls in extra things (like a competing CL library manager of some sort) 2014-03-27T16:00:53Z Xach: Asgeir: what version of slime and emacs are you using? 2014-03-27T16:00:55Z splittist: Rob MacLachlan in 1984. This is why CMUCL and SBCL have such great treeshakers today. 2014-03-27T16:01:03Z pjb: Asgeir: That's probably the problem, don't use a CL implementation from a linux distribution… 2014-03-27T16:02:26Z Asgeir: SBCL 1.1.16 | SLIME 2014-03-02 | GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.10.7) of 2014-01-28 2014-03-27T16:03:43Z Asgeir: I'll try with the non packaged version :) 2014-03-27T16:04:21Z Odin-: Xach: I tend to use Debian's packaged SBCL which sometimes drags in common-lisp-controller. It's never interacted badly with Quicklisp SLIME... 2014-03-27T16:04:23Z MoALTz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-27T16:05:02Z Xach: Asgeir: slime is providing timed releases (well, one so far) and the current one in quicklisp is 2.4 2014-03-27T16:06:34Z Xach: luis`: will there be a 2.5 sometime soon? 2014-03-27T16:06:40Z Asgeir: :D 2014-03-27T16:09:56Z Xach: "The ability to link system calls and compiled routines written in the barbarous tongues into Common Lisp will be important in some implementations." 2014-03-27T16:11:13Z KCL joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:13:43Z Jayk97 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-27T16:19:30Z splittist: The next task, in January 1983: "If Common Lisp is to be widely used it must be available on hardware not currently supporting Common Lisp dialects. ... One of the next tasks to be undertaken is to define Common Lisp in terms of a {\sl virtual machine} description." 2014-03-27T16:21:19Z seangrove quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-27T16:21:40Z Krystof: splittist: sure, just a pile of VOPs 2014-03-27T16:21:46Z Krystof: pity they forgot about %%%%%%%nip-values 2014-03-27T16:23:17Z ckoch786 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T16:27:42Z Asgeir left #lisp 2014-03-27T16:28:42Z varjag_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:28:48Z jasom: splittist: abcl mostly handles that case, right? 2014-03-27T16:29:55Z billitch joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:30:12Z Xach: they can check that off, 30 years later 2014-03-27T16:30:41Z zarul joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:30:41Z zarul quit (Changing host) 2014-03-27T16:30:41Z zarul joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:31:05Z splittist: Isn't the lesson that, in fact, making Common Lisp available on a bewildering array of architectures didn't require /definition/ in terms of a virtual machine? 2014-03-27T16:32:55Z dRbiG quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-27T16:33:17Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T16:33:37Z jxv joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:34:20Z jasom: splittist: well, they failed to predict the ubiquity of a complex general purpose vm 2014-03-27T16:34:54Z Code_Man` joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:35:07Z pjb: There are still different processors. Perhaps in ten years, nobody will use Intel anymore and we'll all have various kinds of ARM processors? 2014-03-27T16:35:12Z jasom: I think the idea was to specify CL in terms of a simple-to-implement CL specific vm. The availibility of a general purpose VM on lots of targets makes that not necessary 2014-03-27T16:35:29Z elfenixtorres quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T16:36:18Z jaimef hunts for the scheme implementation with the greater package collection 2014-03-27T16:36:24Z jaimef: ewrongchan 2014-03-27T16:36:53Z splittist: jasom: I wonder how many different processor architectures abcl is actually run on. 2014-03-27T16:38:44Z jaimef has it working on mips/ppc/x86 2014-03-27T16:38:55Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T16:39:04Z jasom: I've seen it run on ARM. Is there a JVM for SH? 2014-03-27T16:39:15Z jaimef: sh4? 2014-03-27T16:39:17Z jaimef: superhitachi? 2014-03-27T16:39:20Z jaimef: nafaik 2014-03-27T16:39:22Z dRbiG joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:40:02Z splittist: MMIX? 2014-03-27T16:40:58Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:42:07Z shridhar joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:43:36Z jasom: jaimef: https://packages.debian.org/sid/sh4/openjdk-6-dbg/filelist <-- google found that. Who wants to test abcl on an sh-4? 2014-03-27T16:43:49Z jasom: IIRC the RX family has a jvm as well 2014-03-27T16:44:35Z jasom: Remember, if it might be used in a feature phone, it needs to run java 2014-03-27T16:44:53Z Fare joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:44:59Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-27T16:45:56Z Malice joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:49:00Z jaimef: I've got sh4 on my dreamcast running netbsd 2014-03-27T16:49:29Z jasom: I forgot DC was SH 2014-03-27T16:49:34Z jaimef: yeap 2014-03-27T16:49:46Z jaimef: only 16megs of ram however 2014-03-27T16:49:50Z jaimef: java is a bit heavy 2014-03-27T16:50:05Z jasom: jaimef: I've seen CORBA running along java and C++ on 16MB of ram targest 2014-03-27T16:50:38Z jaimef: hell ruby was too big to run on there :P 2014-03-27T16:51:01Z jasom: I would believe openjdk can't handle 16MB of ram targets well though 2014-03-27T16:51:27Z jaimef: no local storage either for paging 2014-03-27T16:51:32Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-27T16:52:35Z Validus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T16:52:57Z jdz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-27T16:53:00Z Validus joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:55:32Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:55:32Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-03-27T16:55:32Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:55:51Z ASau joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:56:27Z attila_lendvai quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-27T16:57:31Z strg quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com) 2014-03-27T16:58:42Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-27T16:58:42Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-03-27T16:58:42Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:00:41Z kliph joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:04:44Z Houl joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:04:58Z nand1 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:05:39Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-03-27T17:08:06Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-27T17:08:53Z TeMPOraL quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-27T17:09:50Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:11:11Z Stygia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-27T17:16:20Z Adlai quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T17:16:44Z Adlai joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:18:33Z TeMPOraL joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:18:56Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys) 2014-03-27T17:21:14Z yacks quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-27T17:24:38Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T17:25:35Z therik joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:29:50Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:30:50Z nyef joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:31:22Z Mandus quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-27T17:31:33Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T17:34:51Z mrhooray joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:35:43Z Mandus joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:36:05Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T17:36:32Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:36:59Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:37:37Z Validus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T17:37:46Z ferada quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-27T17:38:00Z Validus joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:38:26Z ckoch786 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:39:57Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T17:42:51Z kiuma quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T17:47:39Z lyanchih__ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-27T17:47:45Z bobbysmith007: Does anyone strongly endorse a particular logging library? I have been using arnesi loggers for years (with a bunch of patches on top) and am about to embark on a major refactor / librification, but wanted to explore my options first. My final goal is to be able to log arbitrary json to logstash. 2014-03-27T17:48:31Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:48:58Z Ralt quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-27T17:50:36Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-27T17:50:50Z nyef: Ooh. Logstash looks neat, modulo the whole Java bit. 2014-03-27T17:50:51Z bobbysmith007: It looks like cl-log, log5, log4cl all seem to have 3 projects in quicklisp depending on them, so no clear winner there (arnesi has 18 so maybe its the winner, though hard to say since it includes so much) 2014-03-27T17:51:33Z bobbysmith007: nyef: yeah we have recently been shuttling much more of our logging through that and there are some very nice clients for viewing the logs it collects and organizing that data 2014-03-27T17:52:40Z TDog joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:53:08Z koolkalang joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:53:13Z developernotes quit 2014-03-27T17:53:27Z koolkalang: Question, how can I make something in a list an operator? 2014-03-27T17:53:37Z koolkalang: let's say (setq a '(+)) 2014-03-27T17:53:49Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-27T17:54:02Z koolkalang: (a 7 3) doesn't work, but would the syntax be something like that? 2014-03-27T17:54:11Z bobbysmith007: koolkang: are you asking how to subsequently call the list literal? 2014-03-27T17:54:50Z koolkalang: how to call it, and use it as a function 2014-03-27T17:55:02Z nyef: (setf a #'+) (funcall a 7 3)... But you should get a warning about A not being a defined variable, and might get one about A being declared special without having earmuffs. 2014-03-27T17:55:04Z bobbysmith007: koolkalang: um you can store a function reference in a variable then call it: (let ((a #'+)) (funcall a 1 2 3)) 2014-03-27T17:55:27Z Fare: When I say I want *READ-BASE* to be bound to 10, I really mean #10R10, or #xA 2014-03-27T17:55:30Z nyef: Or that, which uses a lexical rather than a special/global variable. 2014-03-27T17:55:44Z Fare: and not 10 in the current *READ-BASE*. 2014-03-27T17:56:11Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:57:58Z koolkalang: I'm on clisp, and so what I get is # 2014-03-27T17:58:02Z koolkalang: and it does seem to work 2014-03-27T17:58:11Z koolkalang: using nyef's method 2014-03-27T17:59:16Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-27T17:59:26Z jasom: koolkalang: see also flet and labels 2014-03-27T18:00:19Z Fare: bobbysmith007, don't forget the quux logging code, which has a million-line application using it 2014-03-27T18:00:22Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:00:42Z bobbysmith007: Fare: looking now, thanks 2014-03-27T18:01:06Z Fare: partly joking, though. 2014-03-27T18:02:16Z jasom: bobbysmith007: note this comment on quux: This snapshot is not usable as is, but we're hoping to take apart those bits that are useful and move them to better, cleaner, libraries. 2014-03-27T18:02:35Z bobbysmith007: Fare: link? 2014-03-27T18:02:50Z jasom: bobbysmith007: http://common-lisp.net/project/qitab/ 2014-03-27T18:03:02Z bobbysmith007: jasom: well thats pretty much what I am about to do with arnesi's logger, so if there is a better place to start it might be worth at least considering 2014-03-27T18:03:10Z mrhooray quit 2014-03-27T18:05:22Z mrhooray joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:05:25Z mrhooray quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-03-27T18:05:52Z mrhooray joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:10:43Z Fare: bobbysmith007, well, if you really like the quux logger after reading its source and/or documentation, ping me for help publishing it the right way 2014-03-27T18:10:56Z ebrasca joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:11:09Z bobbysmith007: Fare: absolutely and thank you 2014-03-27T18:11:14Z ebrasca: i search master/friend for lisp (http://www.paulgraham.com/pfaq.html) 2014-03-27T18:14:15Z Fare: ebrasca, what are your interests? 2014-03-27T18:14:23Z nilsi__ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T18:15:24Z matko quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T18:15:29Z optikalmouse joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:15:49Z matko joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:17:04Z ebrasca: i like games , i dont have problems with math 2014-03-27T18:17:11Z ebrasca: i study englis 2014-03-27T18:18:34Z ebrasca: fare:i like free software 2014-03-27T18:18:54Z pranavrc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T18:18:57Z Fare: not specific enough 2014-03-27T18:19:08Z Fare: what kind of software do you want to write? 2014-03-27T18:19:32Z kiuma joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:19:51Z Fare: I recommend you explore things that exist, and ask help on a more specific mailing-list and/or to a more specific person 2014-03-27T18:21:15Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:23:54Z developernotes joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:26:32Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T18:27:34Z tajjada joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:28:22Z ebrasca: Fare : thx 2014-03-27T18:29:09Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T18:33:40Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T18:35:08Z kiuma quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T18:41:04Z root_empire joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:42:39Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:42:39Z ckoch786 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T18:42:40Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:43:16Z michael_lee quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T18:43:30Z robde joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:44:16Z eudoxia quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-27T18:44:55Z billitch quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-27T18:45:41Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:45:53Z nisstyre joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:46:20Z root_empire quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T18:48:57Z [SLB] quit (Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt) 2014-03-27T18:49:24Z nug700 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:51:07Z therik: hello, can slime highlight defined symbols, like highlight-defined-mode does with elisp? 2014-03-27T18:51:11Z [SLB] joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:51:11Z Ralt quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-03-27T18:52:13Z user3298 quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-27T18:53:12Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-27T18:54:16Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-03-27T18:59:38Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T19:03:56Z nha joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:04:58Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:05:14Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:07:33Z mcsontos joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:08:58Z sirdancealot joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:09:15Z seangrove joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:10:39Z drl joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:12:28Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:13:12Z mcsontos quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-27T19:14:30Z drl: I'm looking at http://www.crategus.com/books/cl-gtk/gtk-tutorial.html#SEC_Top Is this loadable by quicklisp? 2014-03-27T19:15:35Z drl: I mean cl-cffi-gtk of course. 2014-03-27T19:16:32Z drl: Do any of you recommend it? 2014-03-27T19:21:50Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:23:23Z Codynyx_: I've found this one easier https://github.com/Kalimehtar/gtk-cffi . 2014-03-27T19:23:24Z effy quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T19:24:56Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:25:52Z dkcl: Isn't #cl-gardeners, or whatever the channel was called, still active? 2014-03-27T19:26:08Z dkcl: Regarding ebrasca, who seems to be looking for someone to help him learn Lisp 2014-03-27T19:27:49Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:27:58Z pjb: It is not anymore it seems. But there's #clnoobs nowadays 2014-03-27T19:28:47Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:28:48Z effy joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:29:23Z drl: Codynyx_: gtk-cffi doesn't seem to be supported by quicklisp either. 2014-03-27T19:30:19Z Xach: In this case, that's a quicklisp problem, not gtk-cffi's problem. 2014-03-27T19:30:27Z Xach: I don't have a system with gtk3 for building it yet. 2014-03-27T19:30:50Z koolkalang quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-03-27T19:31:42Z Alfr joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:31:42Z robde quit (Quit: Gone.) 2014-03-27T19:31:53Z TeMPOraL quit (Quit: w dom) 2014-03-27T19:32:08Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:32:19Z drl: Xach: That might change soon? 2014-03-27T19:32:41Z PuercoPop: drl you can clone it to your local repos and quickload it just fine. 2014-03-27T19:33:12Z ltbarcly_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:33:46Z drl: PuercoPop: Do you use it and like it? 2014-03-27T19:35:10Z drl: Codynyx_: Does gtk-cffi have good documentation? 2014-03-27T19:35:24Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T19:35:37Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-27T19:35:38Z ltbarcly quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T19:35:38Z PuercoPop: I have played a little with it. But I don't use it. You have to manipulate gobjects also, if you are fine with that I guess it is fine. But GTK3 doesn't run on windows afaik (and runs as an X app on mac), so it is not very portable 2014-03-27T19:36:55Z tajjada quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T19:39:14Z tajjada joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:39:51Z meuporraquente joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:39:53Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-27T19:40:39Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:41:59Z jewel joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:42:18Z drl: PuercoPop: I see. The thing that puzzles me the most about common lisp is why there isn't any gui written in common lisp other than McClim. 2014-03-27T19:44:45Z mrhooray quit 2014-03-27T19:44:50Z PuercoPop: drl: I don't know much about that, but from a cursory inspection on Franz's implementation they seem to have a GUI complete with an interface designer 2014-03-27T19:45:38Z JPeterson quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T19:45:45Z meuporraquente: what is this compile error about? 2014-03-27T19:45:46Z meuporraquente: http://i.imgur.com/F2ubPfu.jpg 2014-03-27T19:45:51Z drl: Yes, but expensive. 2014-03-27T19:46:04Z JPeterson joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:46:38Z jasom: drl: It's a lot of work to write a portable gui. I think most people take the pragmatic approach and reuse what others have already written 2014-03-27T19:47:01Z billstclair: Please, somebody kickban meuporraquente. Porn photo 2014-03-27T19:47:02Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-27T19:47:07Z meuporraquente: it is not porn 2014-03-27T19:47:10Z meuporraquente: I do not see any dicks 2014-03-27T19:47:12Z meuporraquente: breasts 2014-03-27T19:47:14Z meuporraquente: or pussies 2014-03-27T19:47:20Z PuercoPop: drl: Hey good stuff costs either money or free time =). Btw ltk seems good for simple stuff 2014-03-27T19:47:21Z meuporraquente: it is a guy who had condensed milk 2014-03-27T19:47:25Z meuporraquente: and got it all over his face 2014-03-27T19:47:26Z meuporraquente: that is all 2014-03-27T19:47:32Z mathrick joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:47:45Z jasom: drl: I use LTK, but have heard good things about the qt bindings from others 2014-03-27T19:47:47Z billstclair: Whatever. Way off topic. 2014-03-27T19:47:56Z ChanServ has set mode +o fe[nl]ix 2014-03-27T19:47:58Z meuporraquente: anyhow I with 2014-03-27T19:48:01Z meuporraquente: i was that guy 2014-03-27T19:48:02Z meuporraquente: would be nice 2014-03-27T19:48:04Z meuporraquente: to have hot cum 2014-03-27T19:48:08Z meuporraquente: splashed all over my face 2014-03-27T19:48:09Z meuporraquente: oh yeah 2014-03-27T19:48:11Z meuporraquente: give it to me jasom 2014-03-27T19:48:14Z fe[nl]ix has set mode +b *!~suaporraq@200.79.255.* 2014-03-27T19:48:15Z meuporraquente [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has been kicked from #lisp by fe[nl]ix (meuporraquente) 2014-03-27T19:48:15Z LiamH left #lisp 2014-03-27T19:48:32Z billstclair: thanks fe[nl]ix 2014-03-27T19:48:44Z fe[nl]ix: sorry, I was a bit slow 2014-03-27T19:50:49Z jasom: drl: biggest downside of ltk is that the only useful way to figure out how to do something is: "Read the TK docs, and then use M-. on whichever symbol has the same name in ltk" 2014-03-27T19:51:17Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T19:52:01Z ferada joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:52:18Z mathrick_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:53:44Z drl: PuercoPop and jasom, thanks. I've used ltk. I suppose if I learned it better I would like it better. 2014-03-27T19:53:59Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-27T19:54:39Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T19:55:22Z jasom: I've got a somewhat non-trivial ltk program that I could publish the source for, but it won't do anything without data that I can't publish, and costs money to get... 2014-03-27T19:56:06Z jasom: I suppose I could make dummy data for it 2014-03-27T19:57:43Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T19:57:56Z drl: jasom: what does your program do? 2014-03-27T20:00:05Z jasom: drl: It's a character generator for FantasyCraft (a pencil and paper RPG that nobody has ever heard of). The data is generated by parsing the .pdf of the rulebook to extract the data. 2014-03-27T20:00:11Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:01:56Z nisstyre quit (Quit: bai) 2014-03-27T20:02:15Z jasom: So unless you want to drop $30 on the PDF, it's not usable as-is. 2014-03-27T20:03:04Z michael_lee joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:03:18Z drmeister quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T20:05:52Z drl: Is the Franz gui for MS Windows only? 2014-03-27T20:07:52Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T20:08:35Z vi1 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:10:10Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:11:43Z mc40 quit (Quit: mc40) 2014-03-27T20:12:52Z cabaire joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:13:01Z drl: jasom: thanks. It seems that LTK is the only portable way to go. 2014-03-27T20:13:36Z drl: Good night, everybody. I have to go to bed. 2014-03-27T20:14:26Z jasom: drl: commonqt may be portable too, I don't know 2014-03-27T20:14:27Z vi1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T20:14:38Z seangrov` joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:14:44Z therik quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-27T20:15:13Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:15:39Z Denommus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T20:15:39Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-27T20:15:49Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:17:32Z seangrove quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T20:19:58Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-27T20:19:59Z zajn_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T20:19:59Z fiveop joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:20:59Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:21:37Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T20:21:46Z antoszka: Xach: SLIME issue fixed. https://github.com/slime/slime/issues/137#issuecomment-38850184 2014-03-27T20:24:01Z vi1 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:25:50Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-27T20:26:00Z ngz` joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:26:35Z PuercoPop: drl: No Idea but I tried it on Windows when my laptop died recently. iirc it is cross-plataform. 2014-03-27T20:26:41Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:27:19Z developernotes quit 2014-03-27T20:27:32Z developernotes joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:27:40Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T20:27:45Z ustunozg_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:30:42Z vi1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T20:31:09Z user3298 quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-27T20:31:17Z ustunozgur quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T20:32:59Z TeMPOraL joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:35:25Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:37:22Z foreignFunction quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-27T20:38:16Z ggole quit 2014-03-27T20:38:31Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T20:39:18Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T20:40:46Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:41:43Z Lefeni joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:41:47Z ustunozg_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T20:41:50Z ebrasca joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:42:21Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:45:54Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:47:43Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-27T20:48:55Z Bike_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:49:34Z nha quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-27T20:50:36Z ustunozg_ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:51:38Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T20:52:01Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:53:42Z ustunozgur quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T20:56:47Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-03-27T20:57:41Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T20:58:16Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T21:01:33Z Xach: yay 2014-03-27T21:01:56Z AGinsberg quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T21:02:43Z ebrasca joined #lisp 2014-03-27T21:05:22Z AGinsberg joined #lisp 2014-03-27T21:06:18Z kliph quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T21:06:26Z DataLinkDroid joined #lisp 2014-03-27T21:07:37Z fiveop quit 2014-03-27T21:07:54Z zajn joined #lisp 2014-03-27T21:07:54Z Houl quit (Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist) 2014-03-27T21:07:58Z nicdev: jasom: i am thinking of building something with cl-gtk-cffi, that's portable right? or is Qt preferred over GTK+ 2014-03-27T21:08:41Z jasom: nicdev: not sure about that one; I can't keep track of the various gtk bindings 2014-03-27T21:08:59Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-27T21:09:15Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-27T21:10:24Z nicdev: looking around it appears to be under active development so i thought it might be worth a shot. I have not started the work yet but i was thinking of seperating the logic enough so i can also say try CCL Objective-C bridge 2014-03-27T21:11:31Z BlackWabi joined #lisp 2014-03-27T21:11:34Z DataLinkDroid: looking in quickisp, i see cl-gtk2-* 2014-03-27T21:12:29Z jasom: hmm after generating a binary with ecl, I get a missing package trying to run it. 2014-03-27T21:12:42Z nicdev: s/cl-gtk-cffi/cl-cffi-gtk 2014-03-27T21:13:00Z pnpuff left #lisp 2014-03-27T21:13:27Z mr-foobar joined #lisp 2014-03-27T21:14:25Z mr-foobar: hi all, I am experimenting with a sexp data format. I was just wondering if there are any security issues to consider ... 2014-03-27T21:16:26Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T21:16:48Z jasom: I'm using make-build to build the executable, and the package in question is a dependency of a dependency of the system I'm building 2014-03-27T21:16:55Z H4ns: mr-foobar: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/v_rd_eva.htm 2014-03-27T21:17:30Z ahungry_ quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-27T21:17:31Z jasom: mr-foobar: There are also DoS attacks against some implementations number reading facilities 2014-03-27T21:17:47Z jasom: mr-foobar: i.e. you can consume a lot of CPU and/or RAM with fairly short inputs 2014-03-27T21:18:02Z Bike_: and memory issues if they can get a lot of symbols read. 2014-03-27T21:18:33Z mr-foobar: is that true even for json ? 2014-03-27T21:18:34Z H4ns: so in general, the reader should not be abused to parse data coming from an external source. 2014-03-27T21:18:56Z jasom: mr-foobar: depends on the json implementation. IIRC parse-number and parse-float boath have facilities for doing it the "right way" 2014-03-27T21:19:29Z jasom: (parse-number and parse-float are not part of the standard, but rather separately available libraries) 2014-03-27T21:20:15Z mr-foobar: *damn* doing web thingy. So write a custom parser for a sexp subset ? 2014-03-27T21:20:50Z jasom: mr-foobar: yeah; most parsing libraries already have sample code for parsing s-expressions 2014-03-27T21:21:02Z H4ns: mr-foobar: or use json 2014-03-27T21:21:03Z jasom: mr-foobar: or just use json, if it's web; 2014-03-27T21:21:36Z |nix|` joined #lisp 2014-03-27T21:21:59Z mr-foobar: basically I am exposing the sexp to the user, in an emacs spirit so I do want sexps 2014-03-27T21:22:32Z Bike_ is now known as Bicyclidine 2014-03-27T21:22:57Z |nix| quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T21:23:57Z rune1 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T21:24:31Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-27T21:24:49Z axion: how would one check a string value for "M s", where int is a single-digit integer, without regex? 2014-03-27T21:25:34Z pjb: That's incredible you should ask that. I'm really surprised. Aren't you a programmer? 2014-03-27T21:26:12Z jasom: mr-foobar: It takes very little code to write a toy sexp parser. For example: https://github.com/nikodemus/esrap/blob/master/example-sexp.lisp 2014-03-27T21:26:14Z axion: indeed, i come up with lousy solutions. just trying to better myself. 2014-03-27T21:26:22Z rune1 quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-27T21:26:33Z Bicyclidine: what's the function... 2014-03-27T21:26:36Z Bicyclidine: clhs char-digit-p 2014-03-27T21:26:36Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for char-digit-p. 2014-03-27T21:26:40Z mr-foobar: jasom: thanks ! 2014-03-27T21:26:45Z rune1 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T21:26:49Z Bicyclidine: clhs digit-char-p 2014-03-27T21:26:49Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_digi_1.htm 2014-03-27T21:26:57Z Bicyclidine: use that, axion 2014-03-27T21:26:57Z pjb: (let ((s "M <2>s")) (and (string= "M <" (subseq s 0 3)) (string= ">s" (subseq s 4)) (digit-char-p (aref s 3)))) 2014-03-27T21:27:24Z jasom: mr-foobar: of course writing one that is safe for malicious input may be harder. Who knows how hardend that example is. 2014-03-27T21:27:59Z pjb: You may also use com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.string and write (let ((s "M <2>s")) (and (prefixp "M <" s)) (digit-char-p (aref s 3)) (suffixp ">s" s)) 2014-03-27T21:27:59Z pjb: (digit-char-p (aref s 3)))) 2014-03-27T21:28:02Z axion: thanks i'll look it up 2014-03-27T21:28:20Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T21:28:37Z jasom: pjb: won't the latter also match M <1 aosimdfoiasmfoiasmdfoiam>s" 2014-03-27T21:28:54Z Vivitron`: axion: I would probably use a cl-ppcre regex 2014-03-27T21:28:58Z pjb: Ah, right indeed. We have to check the length too. 2014-03-27T21:29:36Z jasom: And the former has exceptional cases where the string is shorter than 5 characters 2014-03-27T21:29:54Z Vivitron`: axion: especially if you want to find that pattern within a longer string 2014-03-27T21:30:24Z mr-foobar: jasom: i feel stupid, I should tell you my entire usecase. browser textarea -> sexp -> server -> ffmpeg (basically make gifs, split videos ...) 2014-03-27T21:30:56Z axion: i'm trying to avoid cl-ppcre as i just need to check a few strings for this one pattern, as only 1 will exist 2014-03-27T21:31:06Z jasom: mr-foobar: may be easier to convert the sexp to json on the browser, and leave the "handle malicious input" part to the json library 2014-03-27T21:32:03Z jasom: mr-foobar: on the other hand, a sexp deserializer that is safe for malicious input may be useful for others 2014-03-27T21:33:28Z mr-foobar: jasom: I'll definitely see what I can do :) i'm a bit new to dealing with malicious input ... any pointers ? 2014-03-27T21:34:55Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-27T21:35:02Z jasom: mr-foobar: don't call anything that can execute arbitrary code, and avoid things that can cause a large usage of resources with a small amount of input 2014-03-27T21:35:02Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-27T21:35:07Z pjb: so: (let ((s "M <2>s")) (and (= 6 (length s)) (prefixp "M <" s) (digit-char-p (aref s 3)) (suffixp ">s" s))) 2014-03-27T21:35:27Z michael_lee quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T21:36:06Z jasom: mr-foobar: and remember, symbols are forever (so it may be best not to allow the user to create new symbols). If you will restart your lisp image on every connect (like CGI) that's less of an issue 2014-03-27T21:37:07Z jasom: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141806 <-- I get that error when trying to run an image build on ecl using asdf:make-build. If I just (asdf:load-system) and run the epilogue code manually everything works. Any idea what's wrong? 2014-03-27T21:37:54Z mr-foobar: jasom: thanks ! (looks at the code suspiciously) 2014-03-27T21:38:54Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-27T21:39:15Z nyef: Symbols aren't necessarily forever... You could use a temporary package or some similar games. 2014-03-27T21:40:57Z vxe`` quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T21:41:43Z jasom: also, DoS vulnerability is considered less-severe than code-execution vulnerability. It's nice to not have a very short input that can hang your server for 30 minutes though... 2014-03-27T21:41:50Z Okasu quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-27T21:42:35Z loicbsd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T21:42:37Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-03-27T21:43:04Z dstatyvka joined #lisp 2014-03-27T21:43:27Z seangrov` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T21:43:36Z nyef: #.(last '#1=(0 . #1#)) 2014-03-27T21:45:21Z joga quit (Changing host) 2014-03-27T21:45:21Z joga joined #lisp 2014-03-27T21:45:44Z jasom: nyef: which is still less bad than #.(uiop:run-program ...) 2014-03-27T21:46:31Z nyef: Yeah, but an easy way to get an unsafe reader to choke... 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I think sbcl has set-symbol-value-in-thread 2014-03-27T22:24:50Z JuanitoJons quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T22:24:51Z TeMPOraL: Bicyclidine: unfortunately currently CCL on the remote server :( 2014-03-27T22:24:59Z TeMPOraL: but I'll look for an equivalent 2014-03-27T22:25:08Z jasom: TeMPOraL: are you using bordeaux threads? 2014-03-27T22:25:20Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp 2014-03-27T22:25:25Z Bicyclidine: i think it's kind of a gross way to do it anyway 2014-03-27T22:25:59Z jasom: TeMPOraL: (bordeaux-threads:interrupt-thread) can do what you want if so 2014-03-27T22:26:18Z pnpuff quit 2014-03-27T22:26:30Z jasom: TeMPOraL: though who knows what will happen if you interrupt it while it's writing to standard-output 2014-03-27T22:27:03Z jasom: It's better to have a way to tell a thread to run code once it's in an application-level "known safe" place to interrupt 2014-03-27T22:28:12Z MinnowTaur_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T22:28:20Z MinnowTaur joined #lisp 2014-03-27T22:28:45Z TeMPOraL: jasom: no, currently it would seem I'm not using bordeaux-threads (I used the deprecated `start-background-message-handler' function from cl-irc, which - from what I now read in the source - uses implementation-specific way to start a process) 2014-03-27T22:29:13Z Bicyclidine: wow, i didn't know that function even worked, i thought it used raw fds or something 2014-03-27T22:29:51Z jasom: TeMPOraL: well you can look at the implementation for interrupt-thread for ccl 2014-03-27T22:29:55Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-27T22:30:35Z TeMPOraL: jasom: ok 2014-03-27T22:31:17Z zxq9 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-03-27T22:34:06Z zxq9 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T22:35:57Z ngz` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T22:37:19Z dstatyvka left #lisp 2014-03-27T22:38:06Z zxq9 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T22:38:33Z lduros quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T22:38:38Z seangrove quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T22:38:54Z zxq9 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T22:39:28Z lduros joined #lisp 2014-03-27T22:42:39Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-27T22:44:49Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-03-27T22:46:44Z dstolfa quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 2014-03-27T22:47:17Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-03-27T22:47:57Z segv- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T22:51:38Z ltbarcly quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T22:54:06Z Jayk97 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T22:54:27Z fortitude quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-27T22:54:41Z TeMPOraL: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141807 2014-03-27T22:54:42Z lduros quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T22:54:56Z TeMPOraL: you can call it progress for some values of 'progress :D 2014-03-27T22:55:32Z jasom: TeMPOraL: ... why the outer let? and why the wrong number of parentheses on it? 2014-03-27T22:55:51Z TeMPOraL: jasom: just noticed the wrong number of parens 2014-03-27T22:56:06Z jasom: oh, the outer let is to capture the REPL's standard output 2014-03-27T22:56:10Z TeMPOraL: jasom: yup 2014-03-27T22:56:15Z TeMPOraL: I'm running it from slime 2014-03-27T22:56:55Z KCL quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-27T22:56:59Z mc40 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T22:57:16Z nisstyre quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 2014-03-27T22:58:10Z TeMPOraL: ok, I now redid this with the right number of parens, and the output goes to nowhere (neither slime nor the original place on remote repl) 2014-03-27T22:58:11Z TeMPOraL: :D 2014-03-27T22:58:22Z TeMPOraL: scratch that 2014-03-27T22:58:24Z TeMPOraL: got it on slime 2014-03-27T22:58:28Z TeMPOraL: ok, it works :) 2014-03-27T22:58:32Z ustunozgur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T23:00:50Z seangrove joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:01:23Z TeMPOraL: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141808 <--- jasom like this. 2014-03-27T23:01:42Z TeMPOraL: so that would be for a proof of concept, but I think I'll rewrite this to bordeaux-threads anyway. 2014-03-27T23:02:36Z alexherbo2 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:06:17Z lemoinem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T23:12:29Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-27T23:12:34Z Sgeo joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:13:04Z knob joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:13:16Z lemoinem joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:14:26Z Snorre__ joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:14:41Z Snorre__ left #lisp 2014-03-27T23:15:53Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:16:18Z seangrove quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T23:20:39Z knob left #lisp 2014-03-27T23:21:38Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T23:22:10Z ustunozgur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T23:22:47Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:23:32Z REPLeffect quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T23:24:37Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T23:25:21Z Malice quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T23:26:01Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-27T23:30:08Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec) 2014-03-27T23:31:19Z Denommus quit (Quit: changing computer) 2014-03-27T23:34:05Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:34:38Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T23:36:35Z REPLeffect joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:38:45Z Drexir joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:40:39Z drewc1 joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:41:05Z REPLeffect quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-27T23:43:47Z tensorpudding quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-27T23:44:21Z drewc quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-27T23:48:00Z kliph joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:49:38Z genericus joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:51:26Z BlackWabi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-27T23:52:37Z OldK quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T23:53:18Z Alfr quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-27T23:53:22Z BlackWabi joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:54:49Z REPLeffect joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:55:20Z jasom: with regards to my earlier ecl question, upgrading to a more recent asdf fixed the issue 2014-03-27T23:56:17Z chirpsalot quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-27T23:56:17Z yano quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T23:57:02Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-27T23:57:41Z BlackWabi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-27T23:59:37Z BlackWabi joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:59:45Z chirpsalot joined #lisp 2014-03-27T23:59:50Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-28T00:00:31Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T00:00:58Z tensorpudding joined #lisp 2014-03-28T00:01:08Z tkd quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-28T00:02:47Z jackdaniel quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-28T00:03:37Z jackdaniel joined #lisp 2014-03-28T00:03:47Z Fare: jasom: what was the question? 2014-03-28T00:04:02Z Fare: and did you need a non-released asdf? 2014-03-28T00:05:56Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-03-28T00:06:42Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-03-28T00:06:55Z shridhar quit (Quit: shridhar) 2014-03-28T00:09:13Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-28T00:10:33Z drewc joined #lisp 2014-03-28T00:11:36Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2014-03-28T00:12:57Z jasom: Fare: I had issues with asdf:make-build on ecl 2014-03-28T00:13:39Z jasom: And I just used master from git, since I had a checkout lying around (3.0.something was what I had before, it came either from the ecl install or quicklisp) 2014-03-28T00:14:02Z jasom: I don't know if the most recent release will fix it, I'll try in a bit 2014-03-28T00:14:45Z drewc1 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T00:15:59Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-28T00:16:21Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-28T00:16:46Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-28T00:16:59Z huangho joined #lisp 2014-03-28T00:19:20Z |3b|: any easy way to parse a string like "1.2345678" into a rational without losing precision? parse-number:parse-number stores the :float-format argument in *read-default-float-format*, and sbcl doesn't like me setting that to 'rational :/ 2014-03-28T00:19:26Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T00:19:58Z Bike: split on the radix point and do it yourself, maybe? 2014-03-28T00:20:39Z MjrTom quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T00:21:01Z |3b|: yeah, was hoping for easier / more tested though 2014-03-28T00:21:10Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-03-28T00:21:30Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T00:22:18Z Odin-: I saw something like that mentioned somewhere ... damned if I remember what it was called, though. 2014-03-28T00:23:32Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-28T00:23:32Z sohail quit (Changing host) 2014-03-28T00:23:32Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-28T00:24:03Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp 2014-03-28T00:24:45Z Fare: jasom, yeah, 3.0 had some bundle breakage on ECL, that is hopefully all fixed in the latest version 2014-03-28T00:26:30Z Odin-: |3b|: wu-decimal ? 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2014-03-28T01:29:48Z rvirding: have a function bert* 2014-03-28T01:30:02Z sykopomp: if you have a macro bert, and then define a function? 2014-03-28T01:30:08Z rvirding: wait take that again 2014-03-28T01:30:25Z rvirding: If I have a macro bert and then define a function bert, will that shadow the macro? 2014-03-28T01:31:19Z rvirding: If I do a local function, flet? If I do a top-level function, defun? 2014-03-28T01:32:03Z rvirding: that looks right 2014-03-28T01:37:53Z andreh joined #lisp 2014-03-28T01:38:15Z rvirding: sykopomp: yes, and what if I do the other way? 2014-03-28T01:45:16Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-28T01:45:29Z seangrove joined #lisp 2014-03-28T01:46:07Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all.) 2014-03-28T01:46:37Z Nizumzen joined #lisp 2014-03-28T01:48:38Z huangho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T01:52:07Z zajn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T01:55:12Z huangho joined #lisp 2014-03-28T01:55:56Z ustunozg_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T01:56:32Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-28T02:01:08Z tkd joined #lisp 2014-03-28T02:02:51Z BlackWabi joined #lisp 2014-03-28T02:02:58Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2014-03-28T02:05:19Z andreh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-28T02:06:39Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2014-03-28T02:07:42Z huangho quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T02:11:55Z bjz_ 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A win! http://paste.lisp.org/display/141830#1 2014-03-28T06:00:39Z theos joined #lisp 2014-03-28T06:00:46Z lyanchih__ quit (Quit: lyanchih__) 2014-03-28T06:03:51Z slarti joined #lisp 2014-03-28T06:05:40Z BlankVerse quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-28T06:08:16Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-28T06:08:51Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-28T06:14:21Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-03-28T06:15:41Z pnpuff left #lisp 2014-03-28T06:22:24Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T06:26:12Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-03-28T06:27:32Z maxpeck quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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Any links to recipes for getting the right logging acceptors, rc scripts etc.? 2014-03-28T09:14:11Z H4ns: easye: not really, sorry. i'm using tmux nowadays with a start script that starts the servers that i need. 2014-03-28T09:14:16Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T09:15:10Z easye: What about get error and message logs? Just copy the basic example, or is there a specific acceptor that you would recommend? 2014-03-28T09:15:21Z arquebus joined #lisp 2014-03-28T09:15:40Z H4ns: easye: again, nothing specific. i don't usually keep logs around. 2014-03-28T09:15:43Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T09:16:19Z hitecnologys: easye: I use tmux too. I guess most people use tmus/screen for demonizing Lisp stuff. 2014-03-28T09:16:42Z H4ns: easye: i'm sure that other people have done well with logging, but i have no pointers 2014-03-28T09:16:52Z easye: no logs: you're brave! 2014-03-28T09:17:05Z easye: Well, at least I asked. Thanks. 2014-03-28T09:17:24Z easye will investigate tmux. 2014-03-28T09:17:45Z hitecnologys: easye: why not just write logging function by yourself and insert it everywhere? 2014-03-28T09:18:36Z hitecnologys: easye: that's how I do logging. Works quite well. 2014-03-28T09:19:01Z easye: hitecnologys: I am preparing a Hunchentoot instance that will be "shared" for development, for which I want to at least log the access requests and conditions to a common file. 2014-03-28T09:19:13Z easye: Why tmux over screen? 2014-03-28T09:19:22Z easye: (not meaning to start a religous war) 2014-03-28T09:19:25Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-28T09:19:30Z H4ns: easye: https://gist.github.com/hanshuebner/9828684 2014-03-28T09:19:39Z easye just has never felt enough pain to move off of screen. 2014-03-28T09:19:54Z H4ns: easye: i have switched to tmux because my screen sessions hung themselves up every few months 2014-03-28T09:19:57Z hitecnologys: easye: IMO tmux has more sane syntax than screen. 2014-03-28T09:20:08Z H4ns: easye: and finding help using google was impossible 2014-03-28T09:20:10Z easye: hitecnologys: agreed. But I know screen. 2014-03-28T09:20:26Z arquebus quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-03-28T09:20:33Z hitecnologys: easye: well, you can use it too. That's just me who prefers tmux. 2014-03-28T09:20:37Z easye: H4ns: uptime is a good point. 2014-03-28T09:21:05Z easye: No, but "Screen dies after a month sometimes; tmux doesn't" goes beyond preferences. 2014-03-28T09:21:36Z hitecnologys: Hm, mine screen never did that things. 2014-03-28T09:21:43Z easye: Ok. Thanks all. Back to the paying work... which is in Lisp these days, so it isn't so bad. 2014-03-28T09:22:47Z hitecnologys: H4ns: have you tried investigating the reason of such behaviour? 2014-03-28T09:22:56Z H4ns: hitecnologys: OF COURSE I DID 2014-03-28T09:23:21Z H4ns: hitecnologys: it annoyed the hell out of me. it happened rarely, but it was always very inconvenient. 2014-03-28T09:23:42Z hitecnologys: H4ns: I see. 2014-03-28T09:24:02Z theos quit (Excess Flood) 2014-03-28T09:25:03Z theos joined #lisp 2014-03-28T09:25:57Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-28T09:29:05Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-03-28T09:31:09Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-28T09:39:13Z wchun quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T09:41:07Z dkcl joined #lisp 2014-03-28T09:45:24Z disconnected joined #lisp 2014-03-28T09:48:25Z loicbsd joined #lisp 2014-03-28T09:48:57Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T09:51:34Z nop0x07bc quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-28T09:52:19Z harish_ joined #lisp 2014-03-28T09:55:13Z bjorkintosh joined #lisp 2014-03-28T09:56:05Z zajn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T09:56:06Z nffff quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T09:57:09Z zjxv quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T09:57:11Z nug700 quit (Quit: bye) 2014-03-28T09:57:42Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-28T09:57:53Z wilfredh joined #lisp 2014-03-28T09:58:00Z splittist wonders how ILC 2014 will get enough quality submissions on the topics of "integrated solutions, including mobile computing", unless 'integrated solutions' is so broad as to mean anything. 2014-03-28T09:58:33Z vxe`` joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:00:03Z Adlai quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T10:01:07Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-28T10:02:27Z Adlai joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:04:55Z ndrei_ joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:05:19Z matko joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:05:28Z splittist: OTOH, one of the great things about ILC's is the exposure to the vast landscape of Lisp that exists outside the #lisp-verse 2014-03-28T10:05:36Z przl joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:05:38Z sirdancealot quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T10:08:24Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T10:09:07Z splittist: "PTA: Pervasive Threat Assessment by embedding botnets in consumer smartphones" -- Research funded by [redacted] 2014-03-28T10:12:08Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:13:37Z billitch joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:16:10Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-28T10:16:29Z Xach: splittist: "we're low on quality submissions" "quick! stuff three or four more japanese student presentations into day four!" 2014-03-28T10:19:54Z splittist: Perhaps they'll be Quebecois student presentations this time? 2014-03-28T10:20:05Z splittist: s/?/./ 2014-03-28T10:20:30Z Xach: That would be a nice local flavor 2014-03-28T10:20:58Z Xach: nuecho does mobile-ish things with scheme 2014-03-28T10:22:02Z splittist: technically html5 game frameworks will qualify 2014-03-28T10:25:49Z Xach: i hope mr mocl goes 2014-03-28T10:25:50Z nop0x07bc joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:26:56Z ivan4th joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:27:46Z splittist: It's closer to his home base than BCN, I would think. And he should have some success stories to tell by then. 2014-03-28T10:28:32Z TeMPOraL joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:29:08Z vxe`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T10:30:57Z arbscht quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T10:36:49Z Asgeir joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:37:35Z easye: Does anyone know if one can do Active Directory authentication in pure CL or possibly with CFFI bindings to a Windows DLL? 2014-03-28T10:37:41Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:37:54Z dim: is there such a thing as cl-kerberos? 2014-03-28T10:38:04Z easye: For a given username/password I just need to know if this is a valid authentication event. 2014-03-28T10:38:04Z H4ns: easye: i used cl-ldap to authenticate against ad in the past. 2014-03-28T10:38:07Z frkout_ joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:38:17Z easye: H4ns: cool. Was it "Easy"? 2014-03-28T10:38:40Z H4ns: easye: yes. the hard part is to figure out the proper parameters 2014-03-28T10:38:50Z H4ns: easye: it could be that the stuff is in qitab 2014-03-28T10:38:50Z dim: https://github.com/lmj/lfarm/blob/master/lfarm-gss.asd 2014-03-28T10:38:58Z easye: Right. Ok. I'll investigate. 2014-03-28T10:39:19Z dim: easye: so you have cl-gss and lfarm-gss in Quicklisp already it seems 2014-03-28T10:40:02Z splittist: what dim said 2014-03-28T10:40:06Z easye: dim: that looks more than promising... 2014-03-28T10:40:10Z dim: H4ns: I don't know the details, but I've been pushed hard by a security consultant to prefer kerberos/gssapi against ldap anytime when talking to an AD service 2014-03-28T10:40:20Z easye: No CFFI requirements for cl-gss? 2014-03-28T10:40:43Z H4ns: dim: if you don't know the details, then what is it that you're saying? :) 2014-03-28T10:41:39Z dim: H4ns: my message can be read as "correct me if I'm wrong, but always prefer gss/kerberos over ldap for authentication" ;-) 2014-03-28T10:41:49Z H4ns: dim: because? 2014-03-28T10:41:56Z dim: I wish I did remember 2014-03-28T10:42:03Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T10:42:11Z dim: the guy is on IRC and in the USA, will ask this afternoon 2014-03-28T10:42:51Z easye: cl-gss uses libgssapi. Is there a libgssapi DLL for Windows? Probably not I guess. 2014-03-28T10:43:21Z H4ns: easye: ldap authentication against ad works well. 2014-03-28T10:43:21Z dim: easye: my understanding (from PostgreSQL HBA implementation) is that GSSAPI works the same in native windows 2014-03-28T10:43:38Z easye: dim: right, but I need to deploy to Windows 2014-03-28T10:43:52Z dim: you mean, to test it? 2014-03-28T10:44:06Z easye: No, to deploy. 2014-03-28T10:44:17Z easye: Don't ask. Not my choice. 2014-03-28T10:44:26Z arbscht joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:44:34Z dim: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/static/auth-methods.html#GSSAPI-AUTH 2014-03-28T10:44:37Z easye: No quicklisp for cl-ldap? Ok, digging. 2014-03-28T10:44:47Z dim: here's all I can tell you currently about GSSAPI/Kerberos ;-) 2014-03-28T10:44:53Z easye: H4ns: Thanks, I'll try that route for now. 2014-03-28T10:44:55Z easye: Thanks, all. 2014-03-28T10:45:06Z H4ns: easye: trivial-ldap is what i used. 2014-03-28T10:45:31Z H4ns: easye: https://github.com/rwiker/trivial-ldap/ 2014-03-28T10:45:34Z easye: Cooler. cl-ldap seems to be rotting. 2014-03-28T10:46:43Z easye goes to do lunch. 2014-03-28T10:47:40Z harish_ joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:49:43Z Asgeir: well well well, I'm back with my "error in process filter: not connected" in SLIME when a condition is raised 2014-03-28T10:50:55Z Asgeir: maybe somebody has an advice or a direction I could take in my investigation? this error message is a bit cryptic to me. 2014-03-28T10:51:33Z H4ns: Asgeir: i'd first make sure that my slime is up to date and that the lisp and emacs use the same slime distribution. 2014-03-28T10:54:07Z KCL joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:54:08Z M00R1Z joined #lisp 2014-03-28T10:54:18Z BlankVerse quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-28T10:54:54Z M00R1Z left #lisp 2014-03-28T10:55:18Z Xach: Asgeir: did you change your sbcl installation at all? 2014-03-28T10:57:06Z Asgeir: thanks! I reinstalled the whole combo SBCL/Quicklisp/SLIME, and removed every hidden folder or file related to it prior to their installation 2014-03-28T10:57:21Z aluuu quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T10:57:31Z Jayk97 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-28T10:58:07Z H4ns: Asgeir: did you use quicklisp-slime-helper? 2014-03-28T10:58:13Z Asgeir: thus the slime must be up to date ; sbcl/emacs should always use the same slime distribution if I use a basic configuration, shouldn't them ? 2014-03-28T10:58:18Z Asgeir: H4ns: yes 2014-03-28T10:59:00Z _5kg quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-28T11:00:58Z _5kg joined #lisp 2014-03-28T11:04:17Z Vutral quit (Quit: Life is too short) 2014-03-28T11:05:16Z Praise quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2014-03-28T11:05:22Z Praise- joined #lisp 2014-03-28T11:08:35Z arbscht quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-28T11:08:43Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-28T11:09:14Z Asgeir: ok, I think I found the problem 2014-03-28T11:09:51Z Asgeir: the binary I downloaded yesterday is flawed : SBCL 1.0.58 2014-03-28T11:10:45Z Asgeir: it's the last binary avalaible for x86 on slime.org -_- 2014-03-28T11:11:14Z H4ns: Asgeir: are you on an exotic platform? 2014-03-28T11:11:26Z Xach: Can you rebuild 1.1.16 from 1.0.58? 2014-03-28T11:12:35Z Asgeir: I hope ; otherwise, my distribution's package should do it, it's up to date. 2014-03-28T11:13:11Z Vutral quit (Excess Flood) 2014-03-28T11:13:39Z ivan4th quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T11:16:12Z Asgeir: thanks for you help, I'll hang myself while compiling sbcl and be back soon 2014-03-28T11:16:33Z housel quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T11:16:57Z housel joined #lisp 2014-03-28T11:19:04Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-28T11:19:22Z segv- joined #lisp 2014-03-28T11:19:32Z Praise joined #lisp 2014-03-28T11:20:08Z Praise- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T11:21:23Z Xach: Don't hang yourself! 2014-03-28T11:21:33Z rvirding: fare: thank you 2014-03-28T11:21:37Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-03-28T11:26:19Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-28T11:32:09Z andreh_ joined #lisp 2014-03-28T11:32:30Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-03-28T11:35:38Z billitch quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T11:39:49Z knob joined #lisp 2014-03-28T11:40:17Z knob left #lisp 2014-03-28T11:47:44Z Praise- joined #lisp 2014-03-28T11:48:56Z Praise quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T11:51:43Z arbscht joined #lisp 2014-03-28T11:54:02Z GuilOooo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-28T11:57:37Z GuilOooo joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:02:59Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T12:03:32Z ndrei_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-28T12:08:41Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-28T12:10:41Z ramkrsna joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:10:42Z ramkrsna quit (Changing host) 2014-03-28T12:10:42Z ramkrsna joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:11:23Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:11:23Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-03-28T12:11:23Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:14:08Z waisl joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:19:51Z Sgeo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T12:20:55Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-28T12:26:02Z TDog joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:32:13Z waisl quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T12:33:44Z rustico joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:34:29Z vxe`` joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:39:44Z pranavrc_ quit 2014-03-28T12:41:39Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:42:26Z billstclair quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com) 2014-03-28T12:44:18Z waisl joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:46:43Z ivan4th joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:46:45Z frkout_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T12:49:09Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:49:41Z Malice joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:49:56Z ramkrsna quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T12:53:18Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:55:12Z Asgeir quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-28T12:56:30Z CrazyWoods quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-28T12:57:16Z CrazyWoods joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:57:42Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-28T12:59:16Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T13:02:29Z seangrove joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:03:11Z dim: H4ns: apparently I was quite wrong this morning, ldap is different from kerberos, there's no better solution, it just depends on how you integrate (clear text, TLS, password storage, etc); and kerberos/gss offers SSO that ldap doesn't, that's about it 2014-03-28T13:06:06Z amadsen joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:07:17Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T13:07:17Z drmeister quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T13:10:30Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:11:17Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-28T13:15:33Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:17:07Z wchun joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:22:01Z lduros joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:23:16Z varjag quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-28T13:23:20Z dstolfa joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:25:31Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:26:38Z Vutral quit (Excess Flood) 2014-03-28T13:29:22Z brandonz joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:30:17Z ehu` joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:31:25Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:31:37Z nyef joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:31:47Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T13:34:33Z ivan4th quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T13:34:42Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:35:46Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:38:29Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-28T13:38:52Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:39:40Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:39:51Z p_l: dim: LDAP is just a database, Kerberos handles various authentication-related things. Active Directory uses both (Athena used Hesiod instead of LDAP back when kerberos got started) 2014-03-28T13:40:09Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:40:48Z brandonz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T13:40:59Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:45:45Z ivan-kanis joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:46:12Z ivan-kanis: how do I copy a file? 2014-03-28T13:47:04Z fe[nl]ix: with a pencil and carbon paper 2014-03-28T13:47:18Z H4ns: *rimshot* 2014-03-28T13:47:27Z splittist: I would have thought you needed a hard metal. 2014-03-28T13:48:34Z Xach: ivan-kanis: open the input file, open the output file, loop and read from input and write to output 2014-03-28T13:49:18Z Xach: ivan-kanis: alexandria also has copy-file 2014-03-28T13:49:25Z lduros quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T13:49:44Z ivan-kanis: Xach: yeah, I'll use Alexandria's idiom 2014-03-28T13:49:48Z ivan-kanis: thank you 2014-03-28T13:50:02Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T13:50:03Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:50:36Z Fare joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:50:57Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:51:56Z przl joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:52:38Z ebrasca joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:56:27Z lduros joined #lisp 2014-03-28T13:56:56Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-28T14:00:02Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2014-03-28T14:02:01Z bhyde: suggestions on portable way to get the current user's user-name? (that doesn't appear to be part of uoip) 2014-03-28T14:03:09Z Xach: bhyde: (last (pathname-directory (user-homedir-pathname))) (not really) 2014-03-28T14:04:26Z oleo: ? 2014-03-28T14:04:37Z oleo: isn't there a posix lib for interfacing to the os ? 2014-03-28T14:04:57Z fe[nl]ix: there's no POSIX function for copying files 2014-03-28T14:05:13Z fe[nl]ix: it's quite complicated, especially if you want to copy metadata too 2014-03-28T14:05:22Z oleo: but he said current users username...... 2014-03-28T14:05:32Z oleo: via getenv that at least would work.... 2014-03-28T14:06:18Z nyef: Wouldn't work on non-POSIX environments or environments in which the username isn't available in the process environment for whatever reason. 2014-03-28T14:06:37Z fe[nl]ix: oleo: sorry, I missed that 2014-03-28T14:06:58Z nyef: (For example, I doubt that init runs in an environment with whatever variable set.) 2014-03-28T14:07:04Z fe[nl]ix: oleo: you can use osicat or iolib for that purpose 2014-03-28T14:07:06Z p_l: nyef: or anything that removed USER from environment 2014-03-28T14:07:35Z splittist: bhyde: portable in how many dimensions? 2014-03-28T14:07:36Z dkcl quit (Changing host) 2014-03-28T14:07:36Z dkcl joined #lisp 2014-03-28T14:07:38Z lduros quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T14:08:18Z nyef: Exactly. The POSIX call that should work is getuid(), but that just gets you an integer. And you're already looking elsewhere for non-posix platforms. 2014-03-28T14:08:33Z bhyde: Xach: that's good enough for my usecase; i.e. some example code 2014-03-28T14:09:01Z splittist: bhyde: won't that get you something like 'Roaming' on Windows? 2014-03-28T14:09:08Z bhyde types... (defparameter *irc-user-name* (car (last (pathname-directory (user-homedir-pathname))))) 2014-03-28T14:09:14Z oleo: ok i didn't think about non-POSIX..... 2014-03-28T14:10:05Z bhyde: splittist: yes and if anybody ever tries the example they will weep copious tears and i will be forced to comfort them 2014-03-28T14:10:12Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T14:10:23Z Xach: that sounds tempting 2014-03-28T14:10:45Z splittist: bhyde: I thought the canonical lisp default irc user name was brucio 2014-03-28T14:10:55Z fe[nl]ix: the Unix way is (or (getenv "LOGIN") (getenv "USER") (passwd.name (getpwnam (getuid)))) 2014-03-28T14:11:37Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T14:12:36Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-28T14:13:28Z bhyde: splittist: i did not know that 2014-03-28T14:14:17Z p_l: bhyde: http://www.pkill.info/linux/man/3p-getpwuid/ <--- might be a good starting point for POSIX systems, others have often completely different models 2014-03-28T14:15:34Z splittist: bhyde: see *default-nick* http://quickdocs.org/beirc/api 2014-03-28T14:18:03Z pjb: In any case, the homedir name is unrelated to the user name. That's why there's a homedir field in /etc/passwd. 2014-03-28T14:18:52Z bhyde: Is there a reason I should shun cl-irc in favor of beirc? 2014-03-28T14:18:53Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T14:19:01Z bhyde currently thinks he's happy 2014-03-28T14:19:06Z Xach: I think beirc uses cl-irc underneath. 2014-03-28T14:19:20Z hiroakip quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-28T14:20:21Z lduros joined #lisp 2014-03-28T14:20:43Z bhyde: wait, somebody wrote a lisp library that depends on another library ... what is the world coming to! 2014-03-28T14:21:30Z oleo: cl-irc works on it's own too.... 2014-03-28T14:21:33Z Xach: Hell, in a handbasket. 2014-03-28T14:21:45Z oleo: it's just the UI is better with beirc....lol 2014-03-28T14:22:47Z bhyde decides to remain in his happy state 2014-03-28T14:22:48Z fe[nl]ix: minion: thwap to oleo 2014-03-28T14:22:48Z minion: oleo: please look at thwap: THWAP! http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif and http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif (see also: http://www.unmutual.info/misc/sb_itsits.mp3 ) 2014-03-28T14:23:47Z lduros quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T14:24:29Z oleo: fe[nl]ix: dewwww, i meant "it is just the case that the UI is better with beirc" 2014-03-28T14:24:49Z fe[nl]ix: oleo: the one before 2014-03-28T14:25:12Z oleo: ya the one before ok that one is wrong.... 2014-03-28T14:27:07Z oleo: bhyde: it's very unusual to use cl-irc from the repl......if you want to you still can tho..... 2014-03-28T14:27:50Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T14:28:20Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-03-28T14:28:23Z oleo: the same weirdness with the logger cl-log or so too..... 2014-03-28T14:28:29Z effy_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T14:31:08Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T14:33:09Z killerboy joined #lisp 2014-03-28T14:34:59Z qiemem joined #lisp 2014-03-28T14:35:55Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-28T14:36:53Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-28T14:40:16Z bhyde: off topic, but ... are is the silly markup used in IRC spec'd anywhere? 2014-03-28T14:41:34Z lduros joined #lisp 2014-03-28T14:41:44Z nyef: The stuff used for CTCP Action and whatnot? 2014-03-28T14:41:49Z Xach: Having used only technical channels like #lisp for the last ten years or so, I have been spared from seeing silly markup and I'm not sure which silly markup you mean. 2014-03-28T14:41:58Z dlowe: silly markup 2014-03-28T14:42:10Z Odin-: mIRC's nonsense? 2014-03-28T14:42:27Z dlowe: (on topic - markup generated by xchat plugin written in CL) 2014-03-28T14:43:49Z bhyde: Odin-: yup 2014-03-28T14:43:58Z bhyde: Xach: for example - https://www.evernote.com/shard/s2/sh/d83751b7-ffb7-4175-b379-ca487d98d6e9/a474918b4ed705e2bb5db49027579053/deep/0/Pasted-Image-3-28-14-10-42-AM.jpg 2014-03-28T14:44:23Z bhyde: that image is the wikimedia foundation's IRC channel where the current edit stream is published 2014-03-28T14:45:07Z bhyde: which my current parser converts into this ugly thing 2014-03-28T14:45:09Z bhyde: (":rc-pmtpa!~rc-pmtpa@special.user PRIVMSG #en.wikipedia :" :grey "[[" :orange "Category:Randolph–Macon Yellow Jackets men's basketball" :grey "]]" :red " N" :teal " " :blue "http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=601655720&rcid=645654480" :end-color :brown "*" :end-color :green "Jrcla2" :end-color :brown "*" :end-color "(+236) " :teal "create" :end-color) 2014-03-28T14:45:35Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-28T14:45:42Z bhyde: but the markup parser is based on random code and user doc, no spec seems to exist 2014-03-28T14:45:51Z bhyde: but yeah, this is really off topic :) 2014-03-28T14:46:07Z Xach: http://www.mirc.com/colors.html seems possibly relevant. 2014-03-28T14:46:17Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp 2014-03-28T14:46:18Z stepnem quit (Quit: ZNC - 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2014-03-28T19:13:49Z jasom: I need to open a file as iso-8859-1 with unix line terminators and the way to accomplish that is different in every implementation 2014-03-28T19:14:06Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2014-03-28T19:15:47Z splittist: jasom: babel? 2014-03-28T19:19:18Z jasom: splittist: not that I can see. 2014-03-28T19:19:57Z jasom: splittist: that would allow me to make a byte-stream and convert, but so far every implementation I've looked into can do it natively. 2014-03-28T19:20:07Z jasom: maybe I'll write one. 2014-03-28T19:20:07Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-28T19:20:45Z zimri-lim: Is a CL package that supports SXML sexpr markup -- maybe a port of the SSAX from Scheme to CL. Or alternately knows why the some of the other approaches are supperior with respect to XML, esp, s-xml which doesn't seem to support an s expression mark-up. 2014-03-28T19:21:30Z dlowe: zimri-lim: cxml has a s-xml builder that should work for you 2014-03-28T19:22:37Z zajn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T19:23:02Z JuanDaugherty quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T19:24:20Z ykm quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-28T19:24:26Z mrSpec: Hi guys! quick question - is there any shorter way to write: (format t "~{~a…~}~:*~{~a…~}" '(1 2 3)) ? 2014-03-28T19:24:37Z mrSpec: I dont want to repeat ~{~a…~} ;-) 2014-03-28T19:25:47Z billitch joined #lisp 2014-03-28T19:25:48Z zimri-lim: What I really liked about SSAX was sxml which is a consise, but direct repressentatino of xml in s-expressions. cxml seems only to support the creation of xml through DOM opperations, which seems limiting, but maybe in pactice it's the superior approach? 2014-03-28T19:25:58Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-28T19:26:15Z axion: how can i append new key/values to a list of plists? my attempts are failing 2014-03-28T19:26:25Z nyef: jasom: Not all implementations support all external-format combinations. Finding one that supports classic MacOS line terminators (CR) might be tricky, for example. And finding MacRoman character set support likewise. 2014-03-28T19:26:42Z bobbysmith007: zimri-lim: cxml supports mulitple build models, one of which is dom (buildnode is a library I wrote to help with that), I believe that cxml also has an sxml builder though 2014-03-28T19:26:49Z nyef: axion: Append? Normally we'd prepend, which you should be able to do with LIST* 2014-03-28T19:27:15Z axion: hmm, never used list* 2014-03-28T19:27:20Z bobbysmith007: zimri-lim: its called xmls instead of sxml: see make-xmls-builder 2014-03-28T19:27:28Z axion: i was thinking i could just loop/setf, but it appears not 2014-03-28T19:28:42Z bobbysmith007: axion: there is code to handle plist manipulation concisely in access , otherwise nyef's option sounds correct (https://github.com/AccelerationNet/access/blob/master/access.lisp#L115) 2014-03-28T19:29:01Z w|t quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-28T19:29:39Z nilsi__ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T19:29:57Z nyef: So, a bit random, but does anyone know of an .xlsx parser that would work with SBCL? Approaches that will not run on PPC need not apply. 2014-03-28T19:30:14Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-28T19:31:06Z bobbysmith007: nyef: xlsx is xml now right? I assume you want something smarter than cxml / dom? 2014-03-28T19:31:39Z Bike_ joined #lisp 2014-03-28T19:31:53Z nyef: It seems to be xml in a zip file, but yes, something smart enough to have actual semantics to it. 2014-03-28T19:32:02Z Bike_ is now known as Bicyclidine 2014-03-28T19:33:29Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2014-03-28T19:34:17Z pnpuff left #lisp 2014-03-28T19:34:43Z splittist: nyef: it is (various xml files zipped). There is all the usual xml stuff you can read to give the semantics. I don't know of anything particularly tuned to excel. 2014-03-28T19:34:52Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-28T19:35:31Z nyef: Right, roll my own it is, then. Thanks. 2014-03-28T19:36:11Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-03-28T19:36:41Z zimri-lim: bobbysmith007: xmls is exactly what I was looking, but not this on http://common-lisp.net/project/cxml/xmls-compat.html which only support the XMLS format, but this one, http://www.cliki.net/xmls, that translates xml to s-expressions and back. 2014-03-28T19:39:45Z alakra quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1) 2014-03-28T19:40:53Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-28T19:41:56Z nug700 joined #lisp 2014-03-28T19:42:48Z ckoch786 joined #lisp 2014-03-28T19:44:15Z bobbysmith007: zimri-lim: I am having a hard time parsing that sentence, but it seems like you found what you need? 2014-03-28T19:44:38Z jasom: nyef: and I can't figure out how to get clisp to preserve #\Return characters 2014-03-28T19:44:47Z pjb: jasom: it does not. 2014-03-28T19:44:57Z pjb: jasom: you need to use a binary file format if you want to read them. 2014-03-28T19:45:12Z jasom: pjb: what's the point of the :line-terminal option if it won't preserve them when specifying :unix? 2014-03-28T19:45:22Z jasom: :line-terminator rather 2014-03-28T19:45:23Z pjb: That's a "feature", to let you write lisp code that will run as well on MS-Windows as on MacOS as on unix systems. 2014-03-28T19:45:34Z pjb: jasom: it's for output. 2014-03-28T19:45:38Z jasom: ah 2014-03-28T19:46:34Z bjorkintosh quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-28T19:46:38Z jasom: Well I think I can use flexi-streams for clisp, as IIRC file-position works on flexi-streams on clisp 2014-03-28T19:47:41Z BlackWabi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-28T19:49:01Z zimri-lim: bobbysmith007: My above sentance was not only difficult to parse but wrong. It turns out both the XMLS Builder package and the stand alone XMLS packages work for me. (I was conflating xmls and xlst) Thanks for the help! 2014-03-28T19:49:29Z bobbysmith007: zimri-lim: glad you got it sorted :) 2014-03-28T19:50:17Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-28T19:50:36Z cjwelborn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T19:52:55Z bjorkintosh joined #lisp 2014-03-28T19:53:05Z jasom: crap file-position works but file-length doesn't :( 2014-03-28T19:53:26Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-03-28T19:53:47Z jasom: clisp is officially not supported by this now, since I don't want to rewrite considering ecl,sbcl and ccl all work. 2014-03-28T19:54:09Z pjb: file-length cannot work on character files that use variable length encoded characters. 2014-03-28T19:54:14Z pjb: ie. utf-8 files. 2014-03-28T19:54:33Z jasom: It can't be fast; that doesn't mean it can't work 2014-03-28T19:54:36Z pjb: You can now unsupport all CL implementations and all languages. 2014-03-28T19:54:53Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T19:55:09Z jasom: plus I'm using a fixed-length encoding since input is windows-1252 2014-03-28T19:55:13Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T19:56:22Z pjb: CRLF. 2014-03-28T19:56:58Z jasom: pjb: nope, unix line endings 2014-03-28T19:57:49Z pjb: In any case you can use file-length on a binary stream and use that as an upper bound. 2014-03-28T19:58:07Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-28T19:58:34Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-03-28T19:58:37Z nyef: Until you run into some crazy encoding that maps four characters into three octets on disk. 2014-03-28T19:59:09Z jasom: nyef: like zlib? 2014-03-28T19:59:47Z nyef: I was more thinking a packed six-bit encoding. 2014-03-28T19:59:54Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:00:21Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T20:01:31Z BlackWabi joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:02:24Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2014-03-28T20:04:57Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:05:11Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-28T20:06:13Z TeMPOraL quit (Quit: brb) 2014-03-28T20:06:51Z mhd_ joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:07:38Z foom: But for that, clearly you need to measure position and length in 6-bit increments! 2014-03-28T20:07:52Z w|t joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:09:16Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T20:10:16Z attila_lendvai: the day you stop learning is the day you start dying. unfortunately this can also apply to entire communities as a whole... 2014-03-28T20:10:32Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:10:45Z dlowe: A pithy saying proves nothing. 2014-03-28T20:10:51Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T20:11:43Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:13:56Z dstatyvka joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:14:16Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T20:15:10Z pnpuff: of course, but there is not time to formalize everithing. 2014-03-28T20:15:33Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:15:52Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T20:16:15Z pnpuff: sorry, everything :) 2014-03-28T20:17:22Z ngz` joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:18:59Z ngz` is now known as ngz 2014-03-28T20:19:56Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-28T20:20:33Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:21:08Z segv- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T20:21:47Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:23:20Z gendl quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-28T20:24:57Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T20:25:17Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:25:32Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:25:49Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T20:26:22Z fenton joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:28:20Z billstclair quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T20:28:53Z archonix joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:29:58Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:30:11Z BlackWabi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-28T20:30:48Z pnpuff left #lisp 2014-03-28T20:32:15Z user3298 quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-28T20:33:35Z Vivitron joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:35:22Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T20:35:25Z axion: how can i check for the presence of a plist key, even if its value is nil? 2014-03-28T20:35:55Z H4ns: axion: provide a default to getf that is not nil and not one of the possible values 2014-03-28T20:36:12Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:36:14Z jasom: Has anyone written a readtable that fully implements the standard syntax? 2014-03-28T20:36:25Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T20:36:38Z ckoch786 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T20:36:54Z Alfr joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:37:28Z Vivitron` quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T20:38:30Z BlackWabi joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:38:41Z asedeno quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-28T20:39:06Z Natch_a joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:39:39Z ggole quit 2014-03-28T20:39:40Z pjb: axion: (loop for (k) on plist by (function cddr) thereis (eql k target-key)) 2014-03-28T20:39:48Z antoszka: axion: hashes provide a way of reliably knowing whether a value has been set. 2014-03-28T20:39:48Z pjb: jasom: I have. 2014-03-28T20:39:52Z michael_lee quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T20:40:11Z antoszka: axion: a plist is just a list with a certain set of utilities. 2014-03-28T20:40:58Z Natch quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T20:41:14Z jasom: pjb: I had some ideas for a differing package system that I wanted to play around with, but I'd need to completely reimplement the reader; would your implementation be a good place to start? 2014-03-28T20:41:14Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:41:31Z francogrex joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:41:37Z pjb: Definitely. 2014-03-28T20:41:50Z pjb: jasom: there's also a package system implementation, that you can use as a base. 2014-03-28T20:42:12Z fenton quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 2014-03-28T20:42:40Z francogrex: if anyone tried hemlock the editor from cmucl? does it enable "interactive" evaluation like emacs? 2014-03-28T20:42:51Z pjb: Yes. 2014-03-28T20:42:55Z pjb: I use it in ccl on macosx. 2014-03-28T20:43:11Z pjb: There's also portablehemlock, but I've not tried it for a long time. Uses clx. 2014-03-28T20:43:19Z Vivitron quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-28T20:43:43Z francogrex: ok and is it as interactive like sends from buffer to repl ... etc? 2014-03-28T20:43:59Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2014-03-28T20:44:03Z pjb: Yes, it's possible. 2014-03-28T20:44:15Z jasom: pjb: it's somewhere or ninformatimago.com? 2014-03-28T20:44:22Z francogrex: interesting 2014-03-28T20:45:08Z pjb: jasom: quicklisp, https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/source/e9509008492ee644cb4ac7c0674b20c8faca7f03: and informatimago.com 2014-03-28T20:45:35Z pjb: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/source/common-lisp/lisp-reader 2014-03-28T20:45:36Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T20:45:38Z H4ns: axion: i don't know why pjb provided you with his solution, as getf is sufficient 2014-03-28T20:46:03Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T20:46:46Z jasom: pjb: The change I'm thinking of is small enough that I ought not need a new package system, but I'll look at yours 2014-03-28T20:46:51Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:47:09Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T20:48:05Z pjb: Have fun. 2014-03-28T20:48:32Z pjb: H4ns: if all the possible values can be in the plist… Or perhaps you don't want to cons. 2014-03-28T20:53:17Z TeMPOraL joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:53:32Z francogrex quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T20:54:23Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:54:29Z H4ns: pjb: if you really want to avoid that, you can still use (let ((x (gensym))) (not (eql (getf plist key x) x))), but for most practical purposes, a normal symbol from the current package will do 2014-03-28T20:54:49Z pjb: gensym conses. 2014-03-28T20:55:21Z H4ns: pjb: if you care, cons outside of the comparison. 2014-03-28T20:55:56Z H4ns: pjb: but as i said, there is nothing wrong with using a symbol from the current package if you know that it won't ever be used as value 2014-03-28T20:55:57Z pjb: But if you do that, there's the possibility the object be found and put in the plist :-) 2014-03-28T20:56:10Z pjb: Indeed, usually getf gensym will do. 2014-03-28T20:57:20Z jasom: pjb: this is excatly what I was looking for; all I need to do is have a slightly different parse-token, and then wrap all the CL: functions that take a package designator. Should be done sometime next week! 2014-03-28T20:57:35Z pjb: Good. 2014-03-28T20:57:35Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T20:57:42Z pjb: Notice the AGPL3 license. 2014-03-28T20:58:46Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T20:58:49Z jasom: pjb: didn't notice that, but good to know; that's the one where I need to distribute changes if I make a webservice that uses it (or something like that?) 2014-03-28T20:59:04Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T20:59:42Z pjb: Yes. 2014-03-28T21:00:17Z H4ns: "changes"? 2014-03-28T21:00:28Z pjb: derived works. 2014-03-28T21:01:37Z [SLB] quit (Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt) 2014-03-28T21:01:47Z vxe`` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-28T21:01:58Z joneshf-work quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T21:02:38Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:03:50Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:03:54Z foom: not just a webservice, any interaction over a computer network. 2014-03-28T21:04:10Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T21:04:21Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:04:41Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:05:01Z [SLB] joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:05:01Z joneshf-work joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:05:28Z jasom: foom: any interactive user interface; regardless of over a network or otherwise (If I read it correctly) 2014-03-28T21:06:22Z gendl quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-28T21:06:33Z huangho joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:06:38Z foom: jasom: no, only users accessing it remotely over a computer network. 2014-03-28T21:06:40Z H4ns: pjb: if i read it correctly, anything that uses an agpl3 licensed component needs to be made available in source to its users. 2014-03-28T21:07:02Z foom: For local users it's essentially the same as gpl 2014-03-28T21:07:19Z pjb: H4ns: Yes, I hope so. 2014-03-28T21:08:06Z jasom: foom: ah, you're right, I was reading the wrong part 2014-03-28T21:08:10Z [SLB] quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-28T21:08:13Z pjb: I want to see the sources now, not in 40 years when it'll be obsolete. 2014-03-28T21:08:26Z foom: if you, say, put agpl code in an interactive kiosk on the street corner, no source needs to be made available. 2014-03-28T21:08:40Z pjb: So I can check that it doesn't send my data to the NSA. 2014-03-28T21:08:50Z Odin-: As I recall the AGPL requirement is that an interactive method to acquire the source must connect to the "corresponding source code" or thereabouts. 2014-03-28T21:08:50Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:09:11Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:09:15Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T21:10:59Z jasom: foom: of course, that means that if someone VNCs into a machine with AGPL code on it that offers no such notice, since the program doesn't know it's remote, what happens? 2014-03-28T21:11:42Z pjb: The SWAT forces are called. 2014-03-28T21:12:08Z Odin-: jasom: The AGPL is a requirement to keep such notices up to date and a prohibition on removing them (IIRC, may only be the latter). Nothing more. 2014-03-28T21:12:27Z foom: Odin-: nope. 2014-03-28T21:12:53Z foom: jasom: I suppose that'd depend. If the end-user who installed the program and VNC didn't modify the agpl code, it clearly doesn't apply 2014-03-28T21:13:01Z Quadrescence quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-28T21:13:17Z foom: "Notwithstanding any other provision of this License, if you modify the Program, your modified version must ..." 2014-03-28T21:13:48Z andreh__ joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:13:49Z Odin-: foom: What additional requirements exist? 2014-03-28T21:13:50Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:13:58Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T21:14:07Z foom: Odin-: maybe read the license? http://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.html 2014-03-28T21:14:09Z Odin-: I'll admit, I haven't gone through v3 with a fine-toothed comb, I just know that's how the original AGPL worked. 2014-03-28T21:14:14Z foom: section 13 2014-03-28T21:14:15Z jasom: Odin-: read section 13 2014-03-28T21:14:37Z [SLB] joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:14:56Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T21:15:17Z Odin-: Ah. Okay. So a requirement to add such a notice if it doesn't exist. 2014-03-28T21:15:21Z andreh_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-28T21:15:34Z ThePhoeron joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:15:54Z nialo_u quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T21:16:08Z jasom: You can write from scratch a program that provides no such notice, and license it under AGPL3, anyone using it under that license who does modify it must add the notice 2014-03-28T21:17:10Z Odin-: If you're using something that can be used through VNC or some such nonsense, that requirement can be satisfied by a notice in an 'about' box or something. And if it's an unmodified "desktop" version, then you're not doing any modification, and you're fine. 2014-03-28T21:17:33Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-28T21:17:43Z Odin-: Realistically, AGPL doesn't make sense for anything that's not entirely oriented towards network interaction. 2014-03-28T21:18:16Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T21:18:50Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:19:15Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T21:19:32Z pjb: Odin-: it does, it's a superset of GPL3. 2014-03-28T21:20:19Z Odin-: pjb: Yes. What I mean is "it doesn't make sense to apply AGPL unless your interaction model is chiefly over the network". 2014-03-28T21:20:41Z Odin-: Because that's the only place where the difference between AGPL and GPL is visible. 2014-03-28T21:21:40Z pjb: This is silly to say that, because you can use any piece of code over the network. 2014-03-28T21:22:22Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:23:37Z slarti joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:23:51Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:24:09Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T21:24:09Z Odin-: Sure. But what AGPL does is quite specific. It requires the code for a server-side implementation to be available to any client. 2014-03-28T21:25:13Z pjb: No, it is quite general: it requires any code used to process user data to be available to the user. 2014-03-28T21:25:27Z pjb: Whether it's on remote CPU or on local CPU, it doesn't matter. 2014-03-28T21:25:31Z pjb: It's a generalization of the GPL3. 2014-03-28T21:25:57Z Odin-: It's a generalisation of the GPLv2, actually, which was made part of the 'official' family with v3. 2014-03-28T21:26:32Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-28T21:28:03Z Odin-: What I mean is this: The only situation in which what AGPL requires is not also required by GPL is when there's a network protocol between the user and the code in question. 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2014-03-28T22:40:52Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-28T22:41:38Z InvalidCo: oh wait, the asd was in the wrong directory 2014-03-28T22:41:52Z InvalidCo: and when asdf couldn't find the source in the same directory, it searched tmp? 2014-03-28T22:42:20Z Lefeni quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-28T22:43:54Z InvalidCo: yup, that did the tric 2014-03-28T22:45:10Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-03-28T22:47:20Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2014-03-28T22:50:07Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-28T22:53:31Z BlackWabi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-28T22:54:08Z Jayk97 joined #lisp 2014-03-28T22:55:38Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T22:56:14Z Vivitron` joined #lisp 2014-03-28T22:56:15Z Vivitron quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T22:56:40Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T22:56:41Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-28T22:57:31Z KCL quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-28T22:57:37Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 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2014-03-28T23:43:16Z MjrTom`-` is now known as MjrTom 2014-03-28T23:44:14Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-28T23:48:15Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-28T23:48:57Z msmith joined #lisp 2014-03-28T23:50:26Z msmith: hello all. Outside of restarting slime, anyone know how to clear up the "package also exports the following symbols error" when a change is make to a package file? 2014-03-28T23:50:36Z msmith: I'm working in emacs 2014-03-28T23:51:37Z Sgeo joined #lisp 2014-03-28T23:52:07Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-28T23:52:42Z InvalidCo: msmith: if I'm having package troubles I usually just use #'delete-package but you'll pretty much lose the whole environment since you'll have to recompile everything 2014-03-28T23:53:06Z InvalidCo: or rather, the package, but still. 2014-03-28T23:54:49Z ndrei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T23:55:06Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-28T23:56:37Z nialo_u joined #lisp 2014-03-28T23:57:51Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-28T23:58:32Z kpreid quit (Quit: Quitting) 2014-03-28T23:58:41Z Vivitron: msmith: sometimes I manually unexport symbols (although I'd like a less clunky solution) 2014-03-28T23:59:07Z kpreid joined #lisp 2014-03-29T00:00:39Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T00:00:49Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-29T00:00:57Z Vivitron: msmith: when "C-c x" (exports symbol at point) and "C-u C-c x" (unexports symbol at point) work they can avoid the painpoint altogether; as they both edit a package.lisp and do the export/unexport in image 2014-03-29T00:01:44Z msmith: Vivitron: Thanks, I'll look into that 2014-03-29T00:04:24Z Malice quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T00:06:06Z oslvbo joined #lisp 2014-03-29T00:08:53Z JuanitoJons quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T00:10:50Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-29T00:11:07Z askatasuna quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 2014-03-29T00:15:57Z nop0x07bc quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 2014-03-29T00:18:00Z seangrove quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T00:20:11Z BlackWabi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-29T00:22:02Z BlackWabi joined #lisp 2014-03-29T00:22:45Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-29T00:22:55Z hugod quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T00:23:12Z hugod joined #lisp 2014-03-29T00:25:11Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-29T00:32:37Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T00:34:13Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-29T00:35:10Z dkcl quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-29T00:38:22Z dstatyvka left #lisp 2014-03-29T00:39:34Z Xach: msmith: i do what vivitron does. it could be nice to have some kind of sync-package-with-defpackage-form command. 2014-03-29T00:47:34Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T00:47:36Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T00:50:03Z nightshade427: I'm confused http://paste.lisp.org/submit 2014-03-29T00:50:06Z nightshade427: oops 2014-03-29T00:50:39Z TeMPOraL quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-29T00:50:41Z nightshade427: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141835 2014-03-29T00:51:51Z BlackWabi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-29T00:54:05Z nightshade427: what would cause that? so strange 2014-03-29T00:54:43Z nyef: Unable to diagnose: Definitions for packages X and Y are not included. 2014-03-29T00:55:24Z Bike: yeah, i'd guess x uses y and y exports stuff, but that's jsut a guess. 2014-03-29T00:55:26Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: existence stopped by memory explosion) 2014-03-29T00:55:43Z nyef: I'd've guessed the other way around. 2014-03-29T00:56:03Z nyef: Or someone's been playing sillybuggers with direct package/symbol manipulation. 2014-03-29T00:56:30Z lduros quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T00:57:18Z pillton: Good morning everyone. 2014-03-29T00:58:13Z nyef: Is that "morning" in UGT, or some Australian time zone? 2014-03-29T00:58:23Z pillton: "some Australian time zone" 2014-03-29T00:58:44Z pillton: nyef: Brisbane to be exact. 2014-03-29T00:58:48Z nyef: Ahh. 2014-03-29T00:58:52Z nightshade427: yep that's it 2014-03-29T00:58:58Z nightshade427: thanks!! 2014-03-29T00:59:12Z nyef: nightshade427: Which is it? Three plausibilities were advanced. 2014-03-29T00:59:17Z nightshade427: (forehead slaps self) 2014-03-29T00:59:39Z nightshade427: x uses y and y exports stuff 2014-03-29T00:59:40Z pillton: nyef: beach hasn't been on for a while. I'll pick up beach's slack. 2014-03-29T00:59:53Z nyef: Heh. 2014-03-29T00:59:58Z nightshade427: simple fix :) 2014-03-29T01:00:06Z nightshade427: thanks again 2014-03-29T01:02:00Z ngz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T01:02:36Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-29T01:02:49Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2014-03-29T01:04:35Z varjag_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-29T01:04:50Z ahungry joined #lisp 2014-03-29T01:07:26Z pillton: I finished my first attempt at automatically generating a solver for a mathematical objective yesterday. I celebrated with beer. 2014-03-29T01:08:55Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-29T01:11:04Z zajn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T01:13:10Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-29T01:13:34Z drmeister quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T01:14:18Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-29T01:18:39Z Rexir joined #lisp 2014-03-29T01:22:16Z Drexir quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-29T01:36:37Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T01:36:48Z MjrTom quit (Quit: Planet Earth is blue, and there's nothing I can do) 2014-03-29T01:39:10Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW) 2014-03-29T01:44:12Z araujo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T01:44:53Z araujo joined #lisp 2014-03-29T01:45:29Z Ralt quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-29T01:51:04Z jxv joined #lisp 2014-03-29T01:52:09Z Alfr quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-29T01:52:23Z uzo_ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T01:52:50Z zajn joined #lisp 2014-03-29T01:53:40Z follymetric joined #lisp 2014-03-29T01:55:03Z follymetric: Say I have a list with operators, (+ - / *), and I want to use one of them - how can I write it so I don't have to check for each symbol? 2014-03-29T01:55:22Z nyef: Have a look at FUNCALL and/or APPLY. 2014-03-29T01:55:46Z follymetric: right now, I have 4 of these: ((eq q '+) (+ a b)), etc 2014-03-29T01:55:57Z zajn_ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T01:56:04Z follymetric: okay I'll check em out 2014-03-29T01:56:25Z nyef: Also note that bare symbols are not optimal first parameters for FUNCALL or APPLY in many implementations. 2014-03-29T01:59:30Z zajn quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-29T01:59:56Z follymetric: funcall looks like it'll work, thanks! 2014-03-29T02:02:59Z user3298 quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-29T02:03:13Z Crystal24 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T02:03:21Z Rexir quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T02:03:58Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T02:04:13Z Crystal24 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T02:05:06Z Natch_a is now known as Natch 2014-03-29T02:07:36Z danlentz quit (Quit: danlentz) 2014-03-29T02:08:36Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-29T02:08:52Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T02:09:31Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-29T02:10:29Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-29T02:21:20Z bege quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-29T02:24:31Z joneshf-work quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T02:24:35Z zajn_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T02:25:48Z zimri-lim quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T02:26:09Z follymetric: \funcall worked beautifully 2014-03-29T02:28:21Z |3b|: hash table mapping operators to functions is another option 2014-03-29T02:28:22Z MjrTom joined #lisp 2014-03-29T02:28:35Z |3b|: or eql-specialized generic functions 2014-03-29T02:29:02Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-29T02:32:27Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T02:33:33Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T02:34:53Z maxpeck joined #lisp 2014-03-29T02:37:07Z JuanDaugherty quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-29T02:37:46Z prxq_ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T02:37:51Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T02:39:56Z follymetric quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-03-29T02:41:08Z prxq quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T02:42:29Z Fare joined #lisp 2014-03-29T02:42:43Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all.) 2014-03-29T02:43:48Z Fare: InvalidCo, hi? 2014-03-29T02:53:12Z Sophie28 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T02:53:42Z zimri-lim joined #lisp 2014-03-29T02:54:12Z Sophie28 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T03:01:57Z maxpeck quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-03-29T03:05:18Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T03:05:35Z CrazyWoods quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T03:06:28Z CrazyWoods joined #lisp 2014-03-29T03:07:07Z uzo_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-29T03:09:49Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2014-03-29T03:09:58Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-29T03:12:38Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-29T03:28:34Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T03:31:15Z nilsi__ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T03:35:20Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T03:36:32Z AGinsberg joined #lisp 2014-03-29T03:37:10Z zajn joined #lisp 2014-03-29T03:56:01Z kami joined #lisp 2014-03-29T03:56:26Z kami: Good morning. 2014-03-29T04:00:42Z MjrTom quit (Quit: Planet Earth is blue, and there's nothing I can do) 2014-03-29T04:01:40Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-29T04:06:05Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T04:06:30Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T04:09:09Z kliph joined #lisp 2014-03-29T04:10:04Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-29T04:10:08Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T04:12:43Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-29T04:22:56Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T04:23:21Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-29T04:35:12Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2014-03-29T04:35:46Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-29T04:37:30Z yacks joined #lisp 2014-03-29T04:40:41Z brandonz joined #lisp 2014-03-29T04:42:50Z AGinsberg quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T04:45:53Z AGinsberg joined #lisp 2014-03-29T04:46:43Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2014-03-29T04:47:40Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-03-29T04:49:49Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-29T04:50:55Z PuercoPop: So if I'm only using string-to-octets is there any benefit of using flexi-streams over babel? 2014-03-29T04:50:56Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-29T04:52:12Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-29T04:54:20Z |3b|: seem to remember them having support for some different encodings 2014-03-29T04:54:36Z |3b|: and same for implementation versions of string-to-octets 2014-03-29T04:55:05Z |3b|: though if you just need utf8, probably doesn't matter too much, aside from possibly performance 2014-03-29T04:56:33Z PuercoPop: *nods* Well I'm just using it for encrypt'ing and decrypt'ing messages with ironclad. And I can't imagine using any encoding for text other than utf-8 so I seems they are equivalent, in this case at least. 2014-03-29T04:57:56Z kliph quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T04:58:25Z nffff joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:01:15Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:05:33Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:06:21Z brandonz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T05:09:06Z joshe joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:11:23Z REPLeffect quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T05:12:31Z bocaneri joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:14:16Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:15:00Z beach joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:15:08Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2014-03-29T05:17:58Z p_nathan joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:19:18Z kushal quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-29T05:20:14Z jxv quit (Quit: QUIT) 2014-03-29T05:20:51Z 17WAACZHY joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:20:52Z optikalmouse joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:21:45Z msmith left #lisp 2014-03-29T05:24:28Z REPLeffect joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:27:02Z easye: Mornin' p33ps. 2014-03-29T05:27:08Z H4ns: good morning 2014-03-29T05:27:21Z easye: Don't you have a flight? 2014-03-29T05:27:43Z H4ns: easye: at 9:20 2014-03-29T05:27:46Z easye: Tempelhof? 2014-03-29T05:27:54Z H4ns: haha 2014-03-29T05:27:56Z easye: What's the new Flughafen like. 2014-03-29T05:28:00Z H4ns: HAHA 2014-03-29T05:28:03Z easye misses ECLM 2014 2014-03-29T05:28:22Z H4ns: tempelhof is closed, the new airport will be opened maybe next year, but it is not sure. 2014-03-29T05:28:34Z H4ns: easye: eclm 2014 is not going to happen 2014-03-29T05:28:39Z easye: Yeah. 2014-03-29T05:28:41Z easye is sad. 2014-03-29T05:28:49Z easye is still coming to Berlin, 2014-03-29T05:29:21Z H4ns: give me a shout when you're here 2014-03-29T05:29:33Z easye: sho' 'nuff. 2014-03-29T05:29:55Z easye: We can have an informal s-expr gathering. 2014-03-29T05:30:47Z easye: So where do you have to go for the filght? Can you still take the "Offis"? 2014-03-29T05:31:25Z H4ns: i'm flying out of tegel, my wife takes me by car 2014-03-29T05:31:39Z easye: AH. nice. 2014-03-29T05:31:43Z H4ns: it is very convenient, but i'm not going to miss the noise. 2014-03-29T05:31:49Z easye: Sure. 2014-03-29T05:31:52Z H4ns: when they finally open up the real thing 2014-03-29T05:32:00Z easye: Tempelhof was too close for everyone. 2014-03-29T05:32:20Z easye loves Berlin in general. 2014-03-29T05:32:32Z easye: A city that has at least two of everything... 2014-03-29T05:32:47Z H4ns: it kind of stinks to go to fort lauderdale this time of the year :( 2014-03-29T05:33:06Z easye: Yeah. Especially as Spring training is over. 2014-03-29T05:33:17Z easye is watching the Mets play in Montreal. 2014-03-29T05:33:36Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:34:26Z easye: All you got left is the Spring Breakers, the Meth Tweakers, and the Retired. 2014-03-29T05:34:49Z H4ns: i'm not going to see much of that as i'm getting up at 2:30am 2014-03-29T05:35:00Z H4ns: that way, i have the city for myself 2014-03-29T05:35:15Z easye: I still think you are a bit crazy to commit to the migration tomorrrow... 2014-03-29T05:35:46Z easye: But Erik and I are ready to help where we can. 2014-03-29T05:36:16Z H4ns: it will be fine, i'm sure. 2014-03-29T05:36:16Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T05:36:29Z easye: Yep. 2014-03-29T05:36:29Z H4ns: at least compared to what we've been through :) 2014-03-29T05:36:35Z easye: Certainly! 2014-03-29T05:36:53Z easye: Nice that we are doing something a year later.... 2014-03-29T05:37:48Z easye: You seen the Manifesto? 2014-03-29T05:38:14Z easye: You are welcome to sign if you wish. Cryptograhically, of course. 2014-03-29T05:38:18Z kobain quit 2014-03-29T05:38:22Z H4ns: not yet, i'll have a look tomorrow 2014-03-29T05:38:28Z easye: Cool. 2014-03-29T05:38:32Z H4ns: gotta get prepared, see you 2014-03-29T05:38:33Z easye: Safe travels, ok? 2014-03-29T05:38:37Z easye: cya 2014-03-29T05:38:38Z H4ns: thanks 2014-03-29T05:42:40Z __VenTys__ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:43:45Z beach: I just made the SICL string module available for download: http://common-lisp.net/project/sicl/ 2014-03-29T05:44:24Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2014-03-29T05:44:56Z theos joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:48:53Z oslvbo quit 2014-03-29T05:49:28Z brucem: ZXCJK 2014-03-29T05:49:57Z brucem: sorry, daughter stole keyboard. 2014-03-29T05:50:07Z beach: Oh, I was just wondering. 2014-03-29T05:51:29Z easye: minion: hello. 2014-03-29T05:51:29Z minion: what's up? 2014-03-29T05:52:21Z easye: minion: tell Xach https://github.com/jnjcc/cl-qrencode for inclusion. 2014-03-29T05:52:21Z minion: Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``httpsgithub.comjnjcccl-qrencode''. 2014-03-29T05:52:41Z easye: minion: tell Xach (quote https://github.com/jnjcc/cl-qrencode for inclusion.) 2014-03-29T05:52:41Z minion: Xach: inclusion.): please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 2014-03-29T05:52:58Z foreignFunction joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:53:03Z beach: easye: What are you trying to do? 2014-03-29T05:53:15Z easye: Set a memo for Xach. 2014-03-29T05:53:36Z beach: easye: Like this: minion: memo for xach: bla bla 2014-03-29T05:53:48Z easye: memo for xach: https://github.com/jnjcc/cl-qrencode 2014-03-29T05:53:53Z easye: Thanks. 2014-03-29T05:53:59Z easye goes to get coffee. 2014-03-29T05:54:33Z easye: Works well for QR codes. 2014-03-29T05:55:16Z easye: Xach: Works well for QR codes. 2014-03-29T05:55:44Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T05:55:47Z 17WAACZHY quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-29T05:56:07Z easye: minion: memo for xach: https://github.com/jnjcc/cl-qrencode 2014-03-29T05:56:07Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell xach when he/she/it next speaks. 2014-03-29T05:57:46Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-03-29T05:58:05Z easye: minion: memo for fare: 2014-03-29T05:58:05Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell fare when he/she/it next speaks. 2014-03-29T05:58:18Z easye: minion: memo for fare: 2014-03-29T05:58:19Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell fare when he/she/it next speaks. 2014-03-29T05:58:33Z huangho quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T06:00:10Z easye: minion: memo fare common-lisp.net:fare 2014-03-29T06:00:10Z minion: i'm written in common lisp 2014-03-29T06:00:11Z axion: easye: i requested it last week 2014-03-29T06:00:22Z axion: he closed the request due to compilation failures for him 2014-03-29T06:00:39Z easye kicks minion. 2014-03-29T06:00:45Z easye: Dumb bot 2014-03-29T06:01:19Z easye: axion: requested what? Please give URI. 2014-03-29T06:01:37Z axion: https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/issues/650 2014-03-29T06:01:51Z easye: For cl-qrencode. k3wl. 2014-03-29T06:02:58Z easye groans. 2014-03-29T06:03:08Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T06:04:03Z easye: minion: ALU 2014-03-29T06:04:04Z minion: ALU: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/ALU 2014-03-29T06:04:26Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-03-29T06:10:00Z angavrilov joined #lisp 2014-03-29T06:18:23Z nilsi__ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T06:19:06Z daimrod: hi, where can I find information on typespec? (e.g. how to declare an vector of integer between 1 and 10 of a given size) 2014-03-29T06:19:09Z easye: minion: cliki.net 2014-03-29T06:19:09Z minion: Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``cliki.net''. 2014-03-29T06:19:31Z easye: minion: clhs typespec 2014-03-29T06:19:31Z minion: watch out, you'll make krystof angry 2014-03-29T06:20:04Z easye: I'll wath out for the lute... 2014-03-29T06:20:22Z p_nathan quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-29T06:20:38Z beach: easye: You can try out minion privately: /msg minion ... and specbot too /msg specbot clhs ... 2014-03-29T06:20:54Z easye: Is specbot more precise? 2014-03-29T06:21:00Z easye loves AIs. 2014-03-29T06:21:38Z beach: clhs symbol-name 2014-03-29T06:21:38Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_symb_2.htm 2014-03-29T06:21:49Z easye nods. 2014-03-29T06:21:52Z beach: mop class-slots 2014-03-29T06:21:53Z specbot: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-slots.html 2014-03-29T06:22:19Z easye: clhs typespec 2014-03-29T06:22:19Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for typespec. 2014-03-29T06:22:42Z beach: easye: As I said, you can try it out by using /msg. 2014-03-29T06:22:50Z easye: ok. 2014-03-29T06:22:59Z easye grins sheepishly. 2014-03-29T06:23:20Z __VenTys__ quit (K-Lined) 2014-03-29T06:23:45Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T06:23:58Z easye: commonp-lisp.net abcl 2014-03-29T06:24:04Z easye: common-lisp.net abcl 2014-03-29T06:24:10Z easye goes to messaging. 2014-03-29T06:24:19Z daimrod: I've read the spec, but I don't understand why (let ((a #(1 2))) (check-type a (vector (integer 1 10) 2))) raises an error. 2014-03-29T06:24:56Z |3b|: clhs #( 2014-03-29T06:24:56Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhc.htm 2014-03-29T06:25:07Z daimrod: though neither (let ((a 1)) (check-type a (integer 1 10))) and (let ((a #(1 2))) (check-type a (vector * 2))) raise one. 2014-03-29T06:25:11Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T06:25:35Z Bike: daimrod: (vector (integer 1 10)) is the type of vectors specialized to that kind of integer, not of all vectors with inhabitants of that type 2014-03-29T06:25:47Z Bike: and like |3b| linked #() vectors are unspecialized 2014-03-29T06:26:26Z Bike: or rather specialized to t, i guess 2014-03-29T06:26:38Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T06:26:43Z daimrod: so I need to use make-array to specialize a vector? 2014-03-29T06:26:53Z Bike: yeah. 2014-03-29T06:27:08Z Bike: well i mean stuff like "" and #* also makes specialized vectors. 2014-03-29T06:27:29Z daimrod: right 2014-03-29T06:27:31Z billitch quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-29T06:27:36Z daimrod: thanks 2014-03-29T06:28:11Z Bike: daimrod: make sure with that check-type you actually want a specialized vector, and not just any vector with (integer 1 10)s in it 2014-03-29T06:28:29Z |3b|: COERCE can also make specialized arrays, and might be easier to use if you already have a sequence 2014-03-29T06:29:26Z daimrod: Bike: ah right, that makes sense. 2014-03-29T06:29:51Z daimrod: will COERCE raise an error if the array cannot be coerced according to the spec? 2014-03-29T06:30:16Z Bike: you can do something like (every (alexandria:of-type '(integer 1 10)) vec) maybe 2014-03-29T06:30:19Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-29T06:30:29Z ggole joined #lisp 2014-03-29T06:30:42Z Vutral quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-03-29T06:31:55Z daimrod: hmm, specialized vectors will do just fine. 2014-03-29T06:32:19Z daimrod: Bike, |3b|: thank you. 2014-03-29T06:32:46Z |3b|: COERCE should error if the type completely don't match, like coercing n array to a float or something. not sure if it is required to check array contents if the specified type is more specific than the upgraded array element type 2014-03-29T06:33:25Z user3298 quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-29T06:34:12Z daimrod: I guess not, e.g. (let ((a (make-array '(2) :element-type '(integer 1 10) :initial-contents '(1 2)))) (setf (aref a 1) 42)) doesn't raise an error. 2014-03-29T06:35:51Z daimrod: though it does raise an error if I use a check-type before the setf. 2014-03-29T06:36:07Z |3b|: sbcl objects to that here, but wouldn't object to storing 15 2014-03-29T06:36:23Z |3b|: since (integer 1 10) gets upgraded to (unsigned-byte 4) 2014-03-29T06:36:45Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-29T06:37:05Z daimrod: apparently it gets "downgraded" to (integer 1 10) with a check-type 2014-03-29T06:37:32Z |3b|: type propagation also complicates things in simple examples like that, since it can remember a more specific type, while if the array were passed in from other code it wouldn't know it 2014-03-29T06:37:53Z daimrod: I see 2014-03-29T06:39:05Z daimrod: so, I shouldn't rely on fine-grained typespec for typechecking. 2014-03-29T06:40:06Z |3b|: should work for single values, but not element type of specialized arrays 2014-03-29T06:40:59Z daimrod: ok 2014-03-29T06:41:00Z |3b|: or unspecialized arrays i guess, since T isn't particularly fine-grained :) 2014-03-29T06:41:31Z |3b|: in either case, you are checking the type of the array, not the contents of the array 2014-03-29T06:41:52Z |3b|: so it only helps to the extent that the array enforced some type on its contents 2014-03-29T06:42:11Z Bike: so if you're checking the elements, check the elements. 2014-03-29T06:43:17Z daimrod: I understand, thanks a lot! 2014-03-29T06:46:25Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-29T06:56:57Z ccl-logbot joined #lisp 2014-03-29T06:56:57Z 2014-03-29T06:56:57Z names: ccl-logbot kliph aftershave Vutral ggole nilsi_ angavrilov foreignFunction theos REPLeffect optikalmouse beach bocaneri joshe nffff gravicappa AGinsberg yacks pranavrc kami zajn stardiviner CrazyWoods zimri-lim prxq_ ahungry hugod kpreid nialo_u Sgeo Vivitron DrCode TDog Ethan- Jayk97 qiemem GuilOooo ThePhoeron [SLB] robot-beethoven Natch slyrus w|t mhd_ Patzy bjorkintosh nug700 Mon_Ouie oleo TristamWrk tbarletz sirdancealot Validus gigetoo mishoo ktx ASau 2014-03-29T06:56:57Z 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2014-03-29T12:26:04Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T12:26:31Z xan_ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T12:27:42Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T12:28:00Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T12:32:44Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T12:33:32Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T12:37:06Z mood: How would I find out what directory Quicklisp scans when used from Lispbox? 2014-03-29T12:37:18Z mood: (for local projects) 2014-03-29T12:37:39Z mood: On linux it's ~/quicklisp/local-projects, but that doesn't seem to be the case on Windows 2014-03-29T12:37:48Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T12:38:09Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T12:42:47Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T12:45:20Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T12:45:59Z stassats joined #lisp 2014-03-29T12:47:52Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T12:48:13Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T12:49:22Z stassats: mood: where you installed quicklisp 2014-03-29T12:49:31Z stassats: ~ has a bunch of different meanings on windows 2014-03-29T12:51:25Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-29T12:52:54Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T12:53:52Z billitch joined #lisp 2014-03-29T12:54:48Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T12:55:36Z drmeister quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T12:57:45Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-03-29T12:57:56Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T12:58:16Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T13:00:57Z Xach: mood: you could check (ql-setup:qmerge "local-projects/") 2014-03-29T13:01:17Z Xach: actually ql:*local-project-directories* is a better thing to check. 2014-03-29T13:02:55Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:06:23Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T13:07:20Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:07:57Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:08:34Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T13:08:34Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:08:47Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T13:12:38Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T13:13:06Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:13:35Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T13:17:29Z mood: stassats, Xach: Thanks. Turns out updating Quicklisp fixed it 2014-03-29T13:18:07Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:18:27Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T13:23:07Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:24:21Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T13:25:25Z therik: Hello, every time I get error in slime repl and press q, it emacs freezes and I have to C-g.. Then it prints "Error in post-command-hook (indent-guide-show): (quit)" 2014-03-29T13:25:47Z therik: and toggle-debug-on-error doesn't catch that, I have no idea where it comes from 2014-03-29T13:25:48Z stassats: your slime and swank are probably of different versions 2014-03-29T13:26:34Z stassats: or you have some indent-guide-show thing misbehaving 2014-03-29T13:28:01Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:28:04Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:28:22Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T13:28:41Z nilsi_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T13:29:04Z therik: I believe I installed slime through package-install, and swank just came with it 2014-03-29T13:30:46Z therik: hmm, you're right, it's indent-guide-global-mode 2014-03-29T13:31:42Z therik: it is painfully obvious now :) 2014-03-29T13:33:05Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:33:24Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:33:26Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T13:37:07Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-29T13:38:05Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:38:10Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:38:26Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T13:42:02Z ustunozgur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T13:43:16Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:43:45Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T13:44:06Z JuniorRoy1 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:44:07Z kobain joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:46:29Z JuniorRoy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T13:48:17Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:50:14Z Xach: mood: fixed what? 2014-03-29T13:51:10Z kliph joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:51:52Z mood: Xach: Oh, sorry. *local-project-directories* didn't exist, and it apparently didn't actually scan anything. After updating *local-project-directories* did exist and it scanned the directory the files were already in 2014-03-29T13:52:38Z Xach: oh, it must have been a very old quicklisp 2014-03-29T13:52:56Z mood: Yes. It was the one that came with Lispbox 2014-03-29T13:52:56Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:53:43Z hitecnologys: mood: Lispbox is obsolete. 2014-03-29T13:53:46Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-29T13:53:59Z hitecnologys: mood: you'd better delete it. 2014-03-29T13:54:37Z Shinmera: Is there a successor for linux and mac? I know there's LispStick for windows... 2014-03-29T13:54:39Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:54:41Z mood: hitechnologys: I don't actually use it. A friend of mine wanted to try out CL and PCL recommended lispbox, so he installed it. 2014-03-29T13:54:55Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T13:54:58Z Xach: poor pcl :( 2014-03-29T13:55:28Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T13:55:42Z hitecnologys: Shinmera: there was that thing that this hajovonta guy used to do for Windows but I haven't heard from him for months so I guess there's no more that thing. 2014-03-29T13:56:23Z hitecnologys: mood: nevertheless, Lispbox is *very* old. 2014-03-29T13:56:53Z stassats: if it has quicklisp, then it's not that old 2014-03-29T13:57:03Z s00pcan joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:57:10Z hitecnologys: Shinmera: dunno about mac and linux. 2014-03-29T13:57:19Z hitecnologys: stassats: still quite old. 2014-03-29T13:59:29Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:59:39Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T13:59:43Z hitecnologys: Shinmera: I can hanlde writing ebuild that would set up simple Lisp development environment but that wouldn't solve the problem as it will work only on Gentoo. But somebody has to make this new "Lisp in a box" thing for *NIX/OS X. 2014-03-29T13:59:58Z huangho joined #lisp 2014-03-29T14:00:09Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T14:02:03Z lyanchih__ quit (Quit: lyanchih__) 2014-03-29T14:04:16Z sohail quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T14:04:43Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T14:04:58Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T14:09:20Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T14:09:39Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T14:10:10Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T14:13:33Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-29T14:14:45Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T14:14:58Z Xach: stassats: quicklisp is so old, it has a very long beard 2014-03-29T14:15:27Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T14:16:38Z karswell joined #lisp 2014-03-29T14:17:56Z francogrex joined #lisp 2014-03-29T14:18:45Z francogrex: for some weird reason, I could load and make functioning hemlock in terminal only once... whatever i do do make it work again fails (iolib fails to load)!! the weirdest shit ever 2014-03-29T14:18:47Z eni joined #lisp 2014-03-29T14:19:22Z eni quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-03-29T14:19:32Z Whitesquall joined #lisp 2014-03-29T14:19:48Z eni joined #lisp 2014-03-29T14:19:49Z nullman` joined #lisp 2014-03-29T14:20:24Z francogrex quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T14:20:30Z eni quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-03-29T14:20:37Z nullman` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T14:21:02Z eni joined #lisp 2014-03-29T14:21:36Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T14:21:49Z eni quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-03-29T14:22:10Z eni joined #lisp 2014-03-29T14:23:33Z billstclair joined #lisp 2014-03-29T14:24:47Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-29T14:24:54Z Alfr quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-29T14:25:53Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T14:29:45Z nullman joined #lisp 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yes 2014-03-29T16:49:13Z testalot: me too. I'm new to emacs 2014-03-29T16:49:47Z jaimef points that this is #lisp 2014-03-29T16:50:07Z gigetoo joined #lisp 2014-03-29T16:50:09Z testalot quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-29T16:50:33Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-29T16:51:07Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-03-29T16:51:57Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2014-03-29T16:52:32Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys) 2014-03-29T16:54:46Z phf: i was thinking of http://opusmodus.com, ipmonger 2014-03-29T16:55:08Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T16:55:19Z TeMPOraL quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-29T16:55:21Z ipmonger: cool 2014-03-29T16:55:32Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-03-29T16:58:05Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-29T16:59:55Z phf left #lisp 2014-03-29T17:02:43Z killerboy joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:07:03Z hiroakip quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-29T17:10:01Z askatasuna joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:11:41Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:11:41Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T17:11:46Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:11:46Z attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 2014-03-29T17:11:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-03-29T17:11:46Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:12:36Z p_nathan joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:12:44Z p_nathan quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-29T17:14:11Z optikalmouse joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:16:21Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T17:16:43Z foreignFunction joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:16:43Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2014-03-29T17:20:16Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:23:02Z huangho quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T17:25:07Z disconnected: /wc 2014-03-29T17:25:09Z disconnected left #lisp 2014-03-29T17:25:49Z zank joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:25:49Z attila_lendvai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T17:26:01Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:26:01Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-03-29T17:26:01Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:26:05Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:27:04Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:30:54Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:31:02Z jxv joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:31:21Z pnpuff left #lisp 2014-03-29T17:31:43Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T17:32:17Z zajn joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:32:43Z Whitesqu_ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:34:21Z Whitesquall quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-29T17:34:43Z zank quit (Quit: Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients) 2014-03-29T17:36:08Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:37:40Z gendl quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-29T17:38:16Z nyef joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:38:56Z _schulte_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-29T17:38:59Z CrazyWoods quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-29T17:39:08Z nialo_u: simple question: I have a list like ((1 1) (2 2) (3 3)) and want a list like (1 1 2 2 3 3) 2014-03-29T17:39:09Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:39:16Z nialo_u: what's the easiest way to get from one to the other? 2014-03-29T17:39:26Z stassats: alexandria:flatten 2014-03-29T17:39:50Z nialo_u: sounds good :) 2014-03-29T17:39:56Z _schulte_ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:42:00Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-29T17:42:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:45:40Z attila_lendvai quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-29T17:45:53Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:45:53Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-03-29T17:45:53Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:49:18Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:51:41Z TeMPOraL joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:53:09Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:53:34Z nipra joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:53:50Z inaimathi joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:54:07Z Xach: nialo_u: (mapcan 'identity list) 2014-03-29T17:54:14Z p_nathan joined #lisp 2014-03-29T17:54:44Z inaimathi: Anyone here who knows things about asdf dependencies, and is willing to answer questions/lend an eye? 2014-03-29T17:55:12Z Xach: inaimathi: I know a bit. What's up? 2014-03-29T17:55:40Z inaimathi: I'm trying to find the dependency tree (preferably ordered) of a given asdf system. 2014-03-29T17:55:50Z inaimathi: Is there a build-in way of doing that? 2014-03-29T17:55:54Z inaimathi: *built 2014-03-29T17:56:08Z inaimathi: Hm 2014-03-29T17:56:43Z inaimathi: Actually, you might be able to help with the larger problem too. The real problem is that I'm trying to run buildapp for a project, and I want to know what systems I need to load as part of the shell command. 2014-03-29T17:57:17Z Xach: oh. the way i do that is to load the project once with dependencies downloaded automatically and then note what was loaded. 2014-03-29T17:57:27Z Xach: then i load it again with just those things. 2014-03-29T17:57:44Z Xach: it is not great but arbitrary things load during find-system time so i'm not sure if there's a nice way around it. 2014-03-29T17:58:27Z inaimathi: How do I go about doing that? 2014-03-29T17:58:49Z inaimathi: That is, loading a project while getting output of what's being loaded. Is there a ql flag or something? 2014-03-29T17:59:40Z Xach: inaimathi: i don't actually note the specifics. i just load it, and then have quicklisp dump out an index to the currently installed libraries via (ql:write-asdf-manifest-file "/path/to/my/project/system-index.txt") 2014-03-29T17:59:50Z inaimathi: Ah 2014-03-29T17:59:52Z Xach: then i use buildapp --asdf-manifest system-index.txt -- 2014-03-29T18:00:23Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-29T18:00:54Z foreignFunction quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T18:01:28Z Xach: Each time I make a new project I refine the makefile technique a little more 2014-03-29T18:01:29Z araujo joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:01:51Z foreignFunction joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:02:16Z inaimathi: Ok then. Do you think something like http://stackoverflow.com/a/22732580/190887 could be a valid approach, or is that going to miss things? 2014-03-29T18:03:38Z mhd_ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:03:43Z Xach: inaimathi: One difficulty arises from .asd files with things like (eval-when ... (asdf:load-system "some-prerequisite")) 2014-03-29T18:04:30Z inaimathi: Right; those wouldn't be noted by the asdf system itself. 2014-03-29T18:04:31Z inaimathi: Dammit. 2014-03-29T18:04:41Z Xach: I also don't know if the slot you're looking at includes :defsystem-depends-on dependencies. 2014-03-29T18:05:05Z Xach: inaimathi: I once asked about how to do this on asdf-devel and I got an answer I didn't really understand (it was complicated) and I haven't revisited it. And I'm not sure there's an archive you can search for it. 2014-03-29T18:06:30Z rtoym: asdf-devel is on gmane.org 2014-03-29T18:06:43Z inaimathi: Hm. I'll take the asdf-manifest-file approach for the moment, and probably ask around on asdf-devel later. 2014-03-29T18:06:55Z inaimathi: Thanks! 2014-03-29T18:07:07Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:07:07Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-29T18:08:28Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T18:09:05Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:10:49Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:10:49Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-03-29T18:10:49Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:10:54Z foreignFunction quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-29T18:11:01Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-29T18:11:06Z foreignFunction joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:12:25Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:14:47Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys) 2014-03-29T18:16:36Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T18:17:30Z p_nathan quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-29T18:17:53Z Xach joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:22:09Z kami` joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:23:36Z kami quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T18:24:54Z Whitesqu_ left #lisp 2014-03-29T18:26:53Z brandonz joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:26:53Z nilsi__ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:28:19Z jewel joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:29:36Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T18:30:02Z Malice quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T18:34:06Z innertracks quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T18:35:56Z atgreen quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T18:37:42Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:37:50Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:37:52Z wilfredh quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-29T18:40:51Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T18:43:11Z Jessin joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:43:12Z JuanDaugherty quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T18:43:32Z Jesin quit (Disconnected by services) 2014-03-29T18:43:56Z Jessin is now known as Jesin 2014-03-29T18:46:01Z Okasu joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:46:06Z ipmonger quit (Quit: ipmonger) 2014-03-29T18:47:04Z Validus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T18:47:26Z Validus joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:50:52Z Vivitron` joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:51:59Z ivan-kanis joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:52:12Z billitch joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:52:16Z ivan-kanis: I need a little help with asdf 2014-03-29T18:52:27Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T18:52:41Z ivan-kanis: I am trying to run option-9 which is in ~/tmp/option-9 2014-03-29T18:53:10Z ivan-kanis: There is option-9.asd file within that directory 2014-03-29T18:53:28Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-29T18:53:35Z ivan-kanis: I have quickloaded the dependency, now I am having trouble running it 2014-03-29T18:53:41Z Vivitron quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T18:55:05Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-29T18:55:41Z ivan-kanis: I read the doc and tried the symlink in .local/share/common-lisp/source but nope 2014-03-29T18:59:22Z pjb: (push #P"~/tmp/option-9/" ql:*local-project-directories*) (ql:quickload :option-9) 2014-03-29T19:00:40Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:01:36Z ivan-kanis: pjb: thank you! 2014-03-29T19:01:37Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:01:50Z ivan-kanis: I have to jot this down somewhere 2014-03-29T19:02:18Z stassats: why not just put it in ~/quicklisp/local-projects? 2014-03-29T19:03:18Z pjb: Sometiems you just want to try out a program,without installing it definitively. 2014-03-29T19:03:59Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:04:03Z Vivitron joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:04:40Z stassats: ~/quicklisp/local-projects doesn't seem any more definitive as ~/tmp/option-9/ is 2014-03-29T19:05:14Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:05:22Z ivan-kanis: that is definitely the case I don't want to install it 2014-03-29T19:05:38Z nipra quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:05:45Z pjb: stassats: it is: quicklisp automatically go there to load systems. Not in ~/tmp/option-9. 2014-03-29T19:06:23Z innertracks quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T19:06:29Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:06:45Z stassats: install is not really a word to describe it 2014-03-29T19:06:47Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:06:55Z wilfredh joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:07:16Z Vivitron` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:08:16Z therik quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:11:03Z ustunozgur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T19:11:38Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:11:55Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:12:32Z drewc simply LOAD's the .asd file (actually slime does it via C-c C-l), especially if something is in /tmp 2014-03-29T19:12:42Z eni joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:13:12Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:17:38Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:18:04Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:18:08Z nand1 quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:20:29Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:21:56Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:26:45Z ltbarcly quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:28:33Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:28:56Z ustunozg_ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:32:15Z ustunozgur quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:33:11Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:36:17Z aftershave quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2014-03-29T19:36:41Z aftershave joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:39:54Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:41:06Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-29T19:41:55Z ustunozg_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T19:42:28Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:42:39Z mathrick_: »Different people use different terms to refer to the same thing; it's possible that some people use the term "symbol rehoming" to refer to something that other people would refer to as "violations of package system consistency rules."« 2014-03-29T19:47:50Z Vivitron` joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:47:51Z Vivitron quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T19:56:48Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-29T19:56:56Z Vivitron` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:57:02Z |3b| would expect it to mean something like "unintern then import in another package" 2014-03-29T19:57:26Z |3b| wouldn't expect to do that often enough to want to name it though 2014-03-29T19:57:42Z ustunozgur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T19:58:32Z Xach: drewc: i wish that worked in all cases, or that there was a function that did the equivalent that worked in all cases 2014-03-29T19:59:24Z enupten joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:02:09Z drewc: Xach: I can see why for sure, and have of course done otherwise myself (in production for that matter) : sbcl --eval "(asdf:initialize-source-registry $foo)" 2014-03-29T20:02:28Z Xach: as it is, if a file has e.g. (defsystem ...) without an in-package, it is specified to load fine with asdf:load-system but a plain cl load is likely to have some trouble because defsystem is not asdf:defsystem 2014-03-29T20:03:52Z Ana23 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:05:04Z Ana23 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T20:05:36Z drewc: yup ... and I often mutate the DEFSYSTEM to add the package prefix before I C-c C-l, so indeed, what package is the .asd file supposed to be loaded in, and has mutilating the environment beforehand made it super important etc that *foo*, etc 2014-03-29T20:07:04Z drewc: It is way to easy to say that things work fine on my side of the fence while not looking at where the grass is greener. 2014-03-29T20:07:22Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:10:57Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-03-29T20:11:24Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:11:55Z JuanDaugherty quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-29T20:12:07Z Vivitron joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:12:26Z TeMPOraL quit (Quit: bbl) 2014-03-29T20:13:27Z nug700 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:13:57Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:14:01Z nilsi__ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T20:14:25Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T20:15:00Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:15:47Z kirin` joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:15:53Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:16:27Z ggole quit 2014-03-29T20:17:24Z user3298 quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-29T20:21:16Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:24:59Z ck_ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:25:45Z ck_ quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-29T20:31:43Z ck_ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:35:57Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-03-29T20:36:22Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T20:38:54Z gigetoo joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:42:31Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-29T20:46:58Z aftershave quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2014-03-29T20:50:42Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:51:31Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:53:25Z Joreji quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T20:53:33Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:54:09Z aftershave joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:54:25Z ckoch786 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T20:56:47Z Krystof: luis`: ping 2014-03-29T20:58:12Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T20:58:46Z ehu quit 2014-03-29T20:59:54Z Krystof: I upgaded slime and nothing works :( 2014-03-29T21:00:23Z Krystof: ("nothing" is a little bit of an exaggeration) 2014-03-29T21:00:39Z Shinmera quit (Quit: brb) 2014-03-29T21:00:43Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-03-29T21:01:01Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-03-29T21:01:44Z Krystof: anyone else among slime developers awake? (Unkind people who are tempted to point out that I have commit access, shh) 2014-03-29T21:02:44Z BlackWabi joined #lisp 2014-03-29T21:03:13Z ustunozg_ joined #lisp 2014-03-29T21:04:43Z Krystof: also, is it possible to _search_ github issues? 2014-03-29T21:06:38Z ustunozgur quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T21:07:39Z _death: I think you can use the search input at the top 2014-03-29T21:08:58Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T21:09:27Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T21:09:37Z Krystof: thanks 2014-03-29T21:12:52Z foreignFunction quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-29T21:13:40Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T21:13:45Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-29T21:14:41Z askatasuna quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 2014-03-29T21:15:31Z lyanchih_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T21:16:40Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2014-03-29T21:18:00Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-29T21:20:02Z sohail joined #lisp 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ZZZzzz…) 2014-03-30T07:22:56Z mhd joined #lisp 2014-03-30T07:25:58Z mhd quit (Ping timeout: 182 seconds) 2014-03-30T07:27:24Z mhd quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T07:28:15Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-03-30T07:32:10Z pierre1_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-30T07:37:51Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T07:38:12Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-03-30T07:47:10Z easye: beach: thanks for the tip on minion. 2014-03-30T07:47:15Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-30T07:47:17Z easye waves to minion. 2014-03-30T07:47:29Z beach: Anytime! :) 2014-03-30T07:47:33Z easye pets specbot. 2014-03-30T07:50:53Z enupten quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-30T07:51:57Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-30T07:52:37Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-30T07:52:46Z Tordek_ is now known as Tordek 2014-03-30T08:06:39Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-30T08:07:43Z jewel joined #lisp 2014-03-30T08:09:39Z fikusz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-30T08:12:39Z fikusz joined #lisp 2014-03-30T08:15:25Z Shinmera quit (Quit: brb) 2014-03-30T08:17:03Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-03-30T08:17:35Z mrSpec quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-30T08:21:14Z Code_Man` joined #lisp 2014-03-30T08:27:00Z varjag_ joined #lisp 2014-03-30T08:45:51Z Adlai quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T08:45:56Z axion: is it possible to emit past tense form of a string with FORMAT, much like it does plurality? 2014-03-30T08:46:00Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-03-30T08:46:01Z mrSpec quit (Changing host) 2014-03-30T08:46:01Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-03-30T08:46:23Z Adlai joined #lisp 2014-03-30T08:46:27Z stassats: do you really expect such a thing? 2014-03-30T08:46:38Z axion: no, just curious. itd save a tiny bit of code 2014-03-30T08:46:48Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2014-03-30T08:47:22Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-03-30T08:47:25Z stassats: a tiny bit of code? you mean, a tiny bit of a dictionary? 2014-03-30T08:47:59Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-30T08:48:00Z axion: right. trying to eliminate the dictionary for my ajax callback functions 2014-03-30T08:49:58Z pnpuff: hello guys, I'm looking for a manual (documentation) about the use of the rdp parser generator. Anyone know if there is something of useful available? 2014-03-30T08:50:17Z pnpuff: thanks for any useful tip... 2014-03-30T08:52:20Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-30T08:54:27Z waisl quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T08:55:24Z stassats: axion: and i hope you know that format doesn't perform pluralization either 2014-03-30T08:56:35Z nug700 quit (Quit: bye) 2014-03-30T08:58:41Z beach: pnpuff: rdp = Recursive Descent Parser? 2014-03-30T08:59:10Z waisl joined #lisp 2014-03-30T09:01:16Z axion: oh ok. was just reading 2014-03-30T09:01:19Z pnpuff: yes beach , I'm looking for documentation and / or examples written in CL 2014-03-30T09:01:20Z axion: clhs tilde p 2014-03-30T09:02:01Z beach: pnpuff: Usually such parsers are written as a bunch of mutually recursive functions without using a parser generator. 2014-03-30T09:02:07Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec) 2014-03-30T09:02:14Z stassats: clhs ~p 2014-03-30T09:02:14Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_chc.htm 2014-03-30T09:02:23Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-03-30T09:02:25Z beach: pnpuff: The CL reader is an example of a recursive descent parser. 2014-03-30T09:02:31Z stassats: there's more to pluralization than S 2014-03-30T09:02:47Z stassats: mice, sheep, deer 2014-03-30T09:04:14Z pnpuff: beach: I'd like, for example, be able to parse prolog code using a parse generator written in CL... and currently I don't know how the CL reader is implemented... 2014-03-30T09:04:57Z H4ns: pnpuff: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/source/common-lisp/lisp-reader 2014-03-30T09:05:04Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-03-30T09:05:30Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-30T09:05:46Z stassats: i'm not sure how the CL reader is related to parsing prolog 2014-03-30T09:06:13Z pnpuff: of course stassats , I was just looking for suggestions regarding the use of rdp 2014-03-30T09:06:29Z pnpuff: I've chosen rdp because it implements a simple parsing algorithm 2014-03-30T09:07:18Z beach: pnpuff: And it is so simple that there is usually no need for a parser generator. You just write it as a bunch of mutually-recursive functions. 2014-03-30T09:07:19Z pnpuff: but there is a lack if documentation or I'm not able to find useful documentation, so I was asking for help 2014-03-30T09:07:24Z stassats: the CL reader doesn't use a recursive descent parser 2014-03-30T09:09:04Z H4ns: pnpuff: you could type "recursive descent parser common lisp" to google 2014-03-30T09:09:12Z H4ns: just a suggestion 2014-03-30T09:09:36Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T09:11:00Z stassats: or just recursive descent parser 2014-03-30T09:12:18Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-30T09:13:45Z pnpuff: stassats: what kind of parsing algorithm/s is/are "used" by the CL reader? 2014-03-30T09:14:02Z stassats: the reader algorithm 2014-03-30T09:14:24Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-30T09:14:26Z Bike: clhs reader algorithm 2014-03-30T09:14:34Z Bike: No? 2014-03-30T09:14:40Z stassats: no 2014-03-30T09:14:42Z H4ns: there is a number of owner-less mailing lists on common-lisp.net. have a look http://paste.lisp.org/display/141846 and let me know if you can tell me who the owner would be. 2014-03-30T09:14:51Z Bike: well, there's a section literally titled "Reader Algorithm", pnpuff http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_b.htm 2014-03-30T09:17:24Z jaimef quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-30T09:17:56Z sandbender1512 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T09:22:43Z Vivitron` joined #lisp 2014-03-30T09:22:44Z Vivitron quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T09:23:46Z stardiviner quit (Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/) 2014-03-30T09:24:37Z jaimef joined #lisp 2014-03-30T09:27:24Z mishoo joined #lisp 2014-03-30T09:35:18Z ehu` joined #lisp 2014-03-30T09:36:08Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T09:40:50Z ehu` is now known as ehu 2014-03-30T09:44:11Z H4ns: can any of these lists go? http://paste.lisp.org/display/141846#1 2014-03-30T09:45:10Z beach: H4ns: I'll take care of sicl-cvs 2014-03-30T09:45:20Z H4ns: beach: you still want the list, is it that? 2014-03-30T09:45:47Z beach: I think so. Do you have a reason I should not want them? 2014-03-30T09:45:52Z beach: Because they are -cvs? 2014-03-30T09:46:09Z H4ns: beach: if you use the list, then i'll be happy to keep it. 2014-03-30T09:46:14Z nffff joined #lisp 2014-03-30T09:46:20Z beach: OK, you can remove it I guess. 2014-03-30T09:46:33Z H4ns: beach: i just want to get rid of dead lists. we have over 1200 and i'm now down to 270 that will be kept. 2014-03-30T09:46:51Z tic joined #lisp 2014-03-30T09:46:54Z tic is now known as mikaelj 2014-03-30T09:47:08Z beach: Yes, I see. 2014-03-30T09:47:18Z beach: Yes, get rid of mine too. 2014-03-30T09:47:55Z H4ns: beach: gsharp-cvs, flexichain-cvs, anything else? 2014-03-30T09:47:57Z beach: Including flexichain-cvs, gsharp-cvs, sicl-cvs, mcclim-cvs 2014-03-30T09:49:00Z H4ns: beach: thanks 2014-03-30T09:49:03Z beach: Sure. 2014-03-30T09:49:07Z nffff quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-30T09:49:42Z beach: H4ns: When will be a good time to ask you to give me ownership of files and directors in the sicl project? 2014-03-30T09:49:43Z loicbsd joined #lisp 2014-03-30T09:49:51Z nffff joined #lisp 2014-03-30T09:50:15Z beach: H4ns: No rush. Just asking. 2014-03-30T09:50:22Z H4ns: beach: maybe ehu can deal with that, i'm just doing the mail stuff 2014-03-30T09:50:38Z beach: OK, that works. Thanks. 2014-03-30T09:51:14Z KCL joined #lisp 2014-03-30T09:51:31Z Jayk97 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-30T09:52:53Z beach: minion: memo for ehu: When you have time, could you please give me ownership of files and directories of these projects: /project/sicl /project/mcclim. No rush. Thanks in advance! 2014-03-30T09:52:54Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell ehu when he/she/it next speaks. 2014-03-30T09:57:08Z gravicappa quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T10:01:19Z waisl quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T10:01:20Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:02:28Z billitch joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:05:27Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:05:51Z ehu quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T10:06:14Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:08:03Z JPeterson quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T10:08:09Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:08:32Z tajjada joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:08:50Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:10:12Z killerboy joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:10:46Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T10:13:06Z stardiviner quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-30T10:13:17Z schaueho joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:13:53Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:15:46Z schaueho quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-30T10:19:10Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:19:39Z atgreen joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:21:19Z JPeterson joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:23:59Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T10:29:08Z ck_ quit (Quit: restart) 2014-03-30T10:29:55Z foreignFunction joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:30:08Z ck_ joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:33:00Z xan_ joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:35:24Z dandersen joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:37:11Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T10:38:14Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:39:07Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T10:39:08Z Pain joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:43:56Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-30T10:44:08Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T10:45:22Z nagato joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:46:42Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:48:27Z Pain quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-30T10:50:34Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:54:12Z Jayk97 joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:55:48Z sohail quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-30T10:57:31Z KCL quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-30T10:57:39Z Adlai` joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:58:01Z sellout quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T10:58:10Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-30T10:58:22Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-30T10:58:44Z Adlai quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T11:03:23Z ehu: beach: what was your cl-net user name? 2014-03-30T11:03:23Z minion: ehu, memo from beach: When you have time, could you please give me ownership of files and directories of these projects: /project/sicl /project/mcclim. No rush. Thanks in advance! 2014-03-30T11:06:57Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-30T11:07:43Z ehu: hmm. weird. 2014-03-30T11:07:59Z ehu: rstrandh is part of both sicl and mcclim 2014-03-30T11:08:29Z ehu: that should give you the access you need, I'd expect. 2014-03-30T11:09:44Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-03-30T11:11:55Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-30T11:13:11Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-30T11:13:24Z beach: ehu: Yes, but I don't seem to be able to change the ownership of the directories and files. 2014-03-30T11:13:48Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-30T11:14:07Z hiroaki joined #lisp 2014-03-30T11:14:35Z stassats: that sounds normal 2014-03-30T11:15:11Z ehu: ah. 2014-03-30T11:15:12Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-30T11:15:13Z ehu: right. 2014-03-30T11:15:45Z ehu: but can you change the read/write permissions? 2014-03-30T11:15:58Z beach: I haven't tried. Would you like me to try? 2014-03-30T11:17:13Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T11:17:20Z ehu: maybe the real question is: what are you trying to achieve? the projects are configured to allow access (read+write) to everybody who is a project member. 2014-03-30T11:17:27Z ehu: with full equality between members. 2014-03-30T11:17:35Z beach: I can change the permissions on files that I own. 2014-03-30T11:17:41Z ehu: ok. 2014-03-30T11:17:47Z ehu: so, not on all of them. 2014-03-30T11:17:50Z beach: No 2014-03-30T11:17:50Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-03-30T11:18:36Z beach: ehu: For all practical purposes, I am the only member now. 2014-03-30T11:18:48Z beach: Both of SICL and McCLIM. 2014-03-30T11:19:10Z beach: So it would be easier if I were the owner of all the directories and files. 2014-03-30T11:20:24Z ehu: ok. 2014-03-30T11:20:45Z beach: Sorry to be a nuisance! :( 2014-03-30T11:20:59Z ehu: np. done. 2014-03-30T11:21:06Z beach: Great! Thanks! 2014-03-30T11:22:40Z beach: Hmm, it looks to me like /project/mcclim and /project/sicl are still owned by others. 2014-03-30T11:23:14Z Poenikatu joined #lisp 2014-03-30T11:23:14Z Poenikatu quit (Changing host) 2014-03-30T11:23:14Z Poenikatu joined #lisp 2014-03-30T11:24:21Z beach: ehu: Am I missing something? 2014-03-30T11:24:27Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-30T11:24:48Z ehu: beach: sorry, wrong server, I think. 2014-03-30T11:24:54Z beach: Ah. 2014-03-30T11:25:43Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T11:25:50Z karswell` joined #lisp 2014-03-30T11:25:54Z ehu: ok. done on the right server. 2014-03-30T11:25:57Z ehu: sorry bout that. 2014-03-30T11:25:59Z beach: ehu: Yes, great! 2014-03-30T11:26:02Z beach: Thanks again. 2014-03-30T11:26:34Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-30T11:26:37Z beach: ehu: And thanks for taking on all that work. 2014-03-30T11:40:49Z eni joined #lisp 2014-03-30T11:45:08Z nffff quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T11:45:57Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-30T11:51:08Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T11:51:27Z sohail quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-30T11:51:47Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-30T11:51:59Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T11:57:13Z pnpuff quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T11:58:05Z nullman` joined #lisp 2014-03-30T11:58:44Z nullman` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T11:59:21Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:01:56Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T12:02:35Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:03:14Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:03:32Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T12:05:20Z ustunozgur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T12:05:55Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:06:05Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-30T12:06:07Z zacharias quit (Quit: Bye!) 2014-03-30T12:07:45Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:08:15Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:08:42Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T12:09:26Z user3298 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T12:09:32Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:09:44Z ustunozgur quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T12:13:12Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:14:19Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-30T12:14:26Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:14:30Z foreignFunction quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-30T12:14:41Z foreignFunction joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:18:32Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:18:48Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T12:19:18Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:22:24Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:24:15Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-30T12:24:30Z Okasu joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:25:06Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-30T12:25:29Z ustunozgur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T12:25:38Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T12:26:01Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:28:27Z [SLB] quit (Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt) 2014-03-30T12:28:47Z kirin` joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:29:37Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2014-03-30T12:30:42Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:31:09Z Xach considers going to Berlin anyway and talking about Common Lisp on a street corner 2014-03-30T12:31:24Z leo2007: Xach: hi 2014-03-30T12:31:33Z H4ns: Xach: i can certainly help you to find an audience for that. 2014-03-30T12:31:39Z H4ns: Xach: or even a proper venue 2014-03-30T12:33:18Z Xach: H4ns: I think it would be harder to justify to Clozure without the prestige of ECLM :) 2014-03-30T12:33:22Z leo2007: Xach: slime-read-system-name isn't aware of systems installed (but not loaded) by quicklisp. Is there any remedy? 2014-03-30T12:33:39Z [SLB] joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:33:47Z H4ns: Xach: certainly so - but it was you who brought it up :) 2014-03-30T12:33:56Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T12:34:18Z Xach: leo2007: Update the ASDF system search protocol to return a list of available system names 2014-03-30T12:34:22Z stassats: leo2007: write a better slime-read-system-name 2014-03-30T12:34:59Z Xach: leo2007: right now it is possible to ask ASDF "Does string X map to a system?" but not "What strings map to a system?" or "What strings starting with 'F' map to a system?" etc 2014-03-30T12:35:16Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T12:35:32Z Xach: You can also use some hard-coded knowledge of the default search system to get some ideas about what systems are available, but it does not work if you extend the search system as Quicklisp does. 2014-03-30T12:35:42Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:35:44Z kirin` joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:35:52Z leo2007: Xach: yes, I am thinking of using (ql-dist:installed-systems (ql-dist:dist "quicklisp")) 2014-03-30T12:35:53Z stassats: read-system-name works by looking for .asd files in the registry 2014-03-30T12:36:04Z leo2007: exactly 2014-03-30T12:36:09Z Xach: leo2007: that has potential. or provided-systems. 2014-03-30T12:36:53Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T12:38:22Z stassats: instead of auto-upgrading ASDF could have improved things like that 2014-03-30T12:38:24Z leo2007: not too difficult: (mapcar #'ql-dist:name (ql-dist:installed-systems (ql-dist:dist "quicklisp"))) 2014-03-30T12:38:34Z stassats: but i guess that would be too useful 2014-03-30T12:38:37Z leo2007: I'll add that to the completion list. 2014-03-30T12:38:59Z stassats: and wouldn't be breaking enough of existing set ups 2014-03-30T12:39:33Z Xach: It's kind of hard, because I can easily imagine setups that can't enumerate possible system names. 2014-03-30T12:39:59Z Xach: You could have a search function that tries to check something out from git or fetch it based on the input name, for example, and only know it isn't valid if something fails 2014-03-30T12:40:41Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:40:43Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-30T12:41:08Z nullman quit (Write error: Broken pipe) 2014-03-30T12:41:13Z stassats: or better, it tries to guess based on the name what the system is supposed to perform and automatically generates code implementing it 2014-03-30T12:41:42Z stassats: (asdf:find-system "alexandria") gets you a burning library in Egypt 2014-03-30T12:41:42Z Xach: ooh, (asdf:dwim "qrcode") 2014-03-30T12:43:27Z stassats: i have found a nice article recently http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Reed%E2%80%93Solomon_codes_for_coders 2014-03-30T12:44:36Z stassats: still not a full description, that's some swiss francs away, but could be enough to get started 2014-03-30T12:45:42Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:45:59Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T12:46:27Z iqool joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:49:28Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:50:42Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:50:50Z leo2007: Is there a advice package? 2014-03-30T12:51:05Z stassats: minion: advice on advice? 2014-03-30T12:51:05Z minion: You can't expect automated advice for everything. 2014-03-30T12:51:15Z stassats: minion: advice on bug 2014-03-30T12:51:15Z minion: #11907: Looking for a compiler bug is the strategy of LAST resort. LAST resort. 2014-03-30T12:51:24Z stassats: leo2007: will that do? 2014-03-30T12:51:31Z gendl quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-30T12:52:21Z Poenikatu: Has anybody succeeded in getting CL onto an Android device yet? 2014-03-30T12:52:32Z stassats: i did 2014-03-30T12:52:33Z leo2007: the advice facility as in emacs 2014-03-30T12:52:36Z dandersen is now known as dickle 2014-03-30T12:52:43Z Poenikatu: stassats, Which one? 2014-03-30T12:52:47Z sykopomp quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T12:52:57Z stassats: clozure 2014-03-30T12:53:15Z Poenikatu: I'd like to use CL on my Kindle 2014-03-30T12:53:48Z Poenikatu: stassats, Which Android device did you do it on? 2014-03-30T12:53:52Z hitecnologys_ joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:53:55Z stassats: there's probably no good ready-made way for an interface 2014-03-30T12:54:06Z stassats: galaxy s2/3, nexus 7 2014-03-30T12:54:26Z stassats: but running hunchentoot works, so you can have a web-server on your phone 2014-03-30T12:54:42Z Poenikatu: galaxy s2/3 are mobile phones, but I understand that nexus 7 is a tablet. True? 2014-03-30T12:55:00Z stassats: there isn't really a difference when it comes to running things on them 2014-03-30T12:55:09Z hitecnologys_ quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-30T12:55:16Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T12:55:16Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:55:16Z sohail quit (Changing host) 2014-03-30T12:55:16Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:55:22Z hitecnologys_ joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:55:27Z sykopomp joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:55:29Z Poenikatu: stassats, What did you do to get CL on the nexus? 2014-03-30T12:55:32Z stassats: running qt is could be an option, but somebody needs to be less lazy for that to happen 2014-03-30T12:55:43Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T12:55:48Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-30T12:56:07Z hitecnologys_ is now known as hitecnologys 2014-03-30T12:56:07Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T12:56:25Z Poenikatu: stassats, Is your code for the Nexus freely available? 2014-03-30T12:56:38Z stassats: Poenikatu: wrote a java program which unpacks ccl from resources and launches it 2014-03-30T12:56:50Z stassats: which is just an experiment, so, it's no good to publish it 2014-03-30T12:57:22Z stassats: and clozure people don't seem to be paining much attention to android 2014-03-30T12:57:57Z Poenikatu: stassats, Is launching much of problem? 2014-03-30T12:58:04Z Poenikatu: *a problem 2014-03-30T12:58:42Z stassats: not really, probably a good idea to steal a terminal code from somewhere to make it easier to interact with 2014-03-30T12:58:51Z billitch quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-30T12:59:32Z Poenikatu: stassats, I'm trying to learn CL, so I don't have any time really for learning Java 2014-03-30T13:00:06Z Poenikatu: stassats, I've read 5 chapters of Sonja Keene's book on CLOS. I must continue it. 2014-03-30T13:00:10Z Xach: Ho ho. You will have to learn how to shave yaks before you're done. 2014-03-30T13:00:29Z stassats: Poenikatu: then you don't really need to have it on your phone, do you? 2014-03-30T13:00:31Z Poenikatu: Xach, Is that you? 2014-03-30T13:00:40Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:01:06Z stassats: i've always found difficult to find an answer for the "is that you?" question 2014-03-30T13:01:12Z Poenikatu: stassats, While it's true that my phone uses Android, I was really thinking of my Kindle Fire HDX: a much better device for apps 2014-03-30T13:01:25Z Xach: Poenikatu: I am Xach 2014-03-30T13:01:32Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T13:01:53Z stassats: Poenikatu: typing code on it is still a hassle 2014-03-30T13:01:55Z Poenikatu: Xach, And I'm Poenikatu, but not so well known as the inventor of Quicklisp 2014-03-30T13:02:32Z stassats: Xach is actually better known as the author of that quote on the cover of PCL 2014-03-30T13:02:36Z Poenikatu: stassats, That's why I have patched the libmtp library to recognise the Kindle Fire HDX. Makes it easier to get files across to it 2014-03-30T13:03:42Z stassats: i guess you can pressure Clozure with money to make an android app 2014-03-30T13:03:43Z Poenikatu: Here's another quote: Computing is fraught with pitfalls for the unwary 2014-03-30T13:05:14Z ASau` joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:05:17Z stassats: bundled with quicklisp, which can download and start slime to connect from your PC 2014-03-30T13:06:24Z stassats: can even sell it form 99¢ 2014-03-30T13:06:29Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:07:20Z leo2007: any lisp to recommend for running on ipad? 2014-03-30T13:07:56Z stassats: ipad is no good for that 2014-03-30T13:08:03Z stassats: or any iOS 2014-03-30T13:08:08Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T13:09:58Z ehu quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-30T13:10:19Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:11:33Z nullman quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T13:12:01Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:12:19Z phadthai: leo2007: some have used ECL but it's not a popular target, you'll have to build it and its dependencies 2014-03-30T13:12:41Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T13:12:53Z stassats: you can ship an application, but no slime or anything like that 2014-03-30T13:13:41Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:14:21Z phadthai: leo2007: https://github.com/kriyative/ecl-iphone-builder if it can be useful 2014-03-30T13:14:36Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-30T13:15:44Z ck_: didn't carmack explore a lisp on an ipad, or some tablet anyway. 2014-03-30T13:15:49Z Amaan joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:15:56Z leo2007: phadthai: cheers 2014-03-30T13:16:21Z stassats: ck_: some scheme variant where you can only type code 2014-03-30T13:17:00Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:17:33Z iqool: hi there, is there a slime command that lets me edit the content of a variable in an emacs buffer? 2014-03-30T13:17:41Z stassats: yes 2014-03-30T13:17:46Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T13:18:11Z stassats: M-x slime-edit-value 2014-03-30T13:18:29Z iqool: thanks! 2014-03-30T13:18:29Z eni quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-30T13:20:28Z Poenikatu: stassats, Has emacs been ported to Android? 2014-03-30T13:20:44Z stassats: i wouldn't know 2014-03-30T13:20:55Z Poenikatu: stassats, Where there is there is Emacs, there is Slime! 2014-03-30T13:21:23Z stassats: you also need a keyboard 2014-03-30T13:21:49Z Poenikatu: I'm not bad at touch-typing with a stylus. 2014-03-30T13:21:56Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:22:40Z Poenikatu is going back to Esperanto messages for ROX-Filer, then libmtp then back to CL 2014-03-30T13:22:59Z Poenikatu left #lisp 2014-03-30T13:23:24Z scmaccal joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:23:58Z karswell` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T13:26:14Z yuuhi quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-30T13:26:16Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T13:26:54Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:27:34Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T13:28:42Z yuuhi joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:29:37Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-30T13:29:44Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T13:31:52Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:32:10Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T13:33:49Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-30T13:34:42Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:34:56Z hiroaki joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:36:06Z ustunozg_ joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:36:24Z ustunozgur quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-30T13:37:00Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:37:44Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T13:40:02Z scmaccal quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T13:40:14Z scmaccal joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:40:42Z Ralt quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-30T13:41:58Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:42:14Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T13:44:05Z JuniorRoy joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:46:59Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:47:11Z scmaccal quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T13:47:16Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T13:48:17Z JuniorRoy1 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T13:51:02Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:52:00Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:52:54Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:53:24Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T13:56:35Z AGinsberg quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T13:56:44Z dickle is now known as dkcl 2014-03-30T13:57:02Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T13:57:26Z AGinsberg joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:00:32Z ustunozg_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T14:01:10Z iqool left #lisp 2014-03-30T14:01:22Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:01:36Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T14:01:45Z karswell joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:02:16Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:02:57Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T14:07:06Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:07:33Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T14:09:47Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:10:10Z wokko left #lisp 2014-03-30T14:10:42Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:11:07Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:12:06Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:12:25Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T14:14:14Z jewel_ joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:15:50Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T14:15:50Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T14:18:29Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:19:24Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T14:22:47Z mhd_ joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:23:27Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:23:46Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T14:23:52Z leo2007 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T14:28:30Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:32:56Z nullman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T14:33:34Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:33:47Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-30T14:38:29Z nyef joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:38:57Z Agnesi joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:40:32Z diadara quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-30T14:40:33Z Agnesi quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-30T14:42:12Z mtd_ quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-03-30T14:42:36Z TheMoonMaster quit (Excess Flood) 2014-03-30T14:43:04Z TheMoonMaster joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:44:50Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:47:06Z Okasu quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-30T14:48:37Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:49:20Z ustunozgur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T14:49:53Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:49:57Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:52:29Z ustunozg_ joined #lisp 2014-03-30T14:52:55Z mhd_ quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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2014-03-30T18:38:42Z H4ns: nyef: right. 2014-03-30T18:39:02Z dknight: H4ns: I have to pass a block to the loop so I put the entire section of toggling within () 2014-03-30T18:39:02Z antoszka: There's an exception to the rule of no two opening parens, too, when you have a literal lambda form :) 2014-03-30T18:39:16Z H4ns: dknight: no. 2014-03-30T18:39:36Z H4ns: dknight: what you wrote there is wrong. an opening paren does not start a "block" 2014-03-30T18:39:43Z H4ns: dknight: just remove one of the parens. 2014-03-30T18:40:03Z nyef: Or use a PROGN. 2014-03-30T18:40:22Z H4ns: nyef: not needed after do in a loop 2014-03-30T18:40:28Z H4ns: do (progn makes me cringe 2014-03-30T18:41:42Z dknight: I am using slime with sbcl and toggle is not able to indent the code. any suggestions ? 2014-03-30T18:41:54Z H4ns: dknight: toggle? 2014-03-30T18:42:04Z H4ns: dknight: press "tab" to indent a line 2014-03-30T18:42:07Z dknight: sorry tab I meant 2014-03-30T18:42:47Z H4ns: is your buffer in lisp mode? 2014-03-30T18:43:03Z H4ns: did you use quicklisp-slime-helper and follow the instructions? 2014-03-30T18:43:23Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-30T18:43:38Z therik: what's quicklisp-slime-helper? 2014-03-30T18:43:58Z H4ns: therik: (ql:quickload :quicklisp-slime-helper) 2014-03-30T18:44:06Z therik: loading it already 2014-03-30T18:44:15Z H4ns: therik: it downloads a known-good slime and tells you what to put into your .emacs to make it work 2014-03-30T18:45:25Z dknight: H4ns: yes 2014-03-30T18:45:31Z nipra joined #lisp 2014-03-30T18:45:50Z H4ns: dknight: then something in your .emacs must be wrong 2014-03-30T18:46:57Z dknight: the modified code is http://paste.lisp.org/display/141851 it says "The bounding indices 2 and 1 are bad for a sequence of length 4." what am I missing ? 2014-03-30T18:47:14Z H4ns: dknight: end must be larger than start 2014-03-30T18:47:22Z ChanServ has set mode +o p_l 2014-03-30T18:47:26Z H4ns: larger or equal 2014-03-30T18:48:36Z dknight: to maintain that only I am having the condition that x should be less than (length - 2) 2014-03-30T18:48:42Z q3k is now known as kektop 2014-03-30T18:48:55Z kektop is now known as q3k 2014-03-30T18:48:57Z H4ns: dknight: you'll figure it out. it is a very basic programming problem. 2014-03-30T18:49:09Z H4ns: dknight: also check out the documentation. 2014-03-30T18:50:07Z ChanServ has set mode -o p_l 2014-03-30T18:50:08Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T18:50:12Z therik: hint: Arglist: (SEQUENCE START &OPTIONAL END) 2014-03-30T18:52:24Z dknight: oh, silly me 2014-03-30T18:52:47Z Oddity quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-30T18:53:46Z matko quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T18:54:47Z H4ns: minion: tell dknight about rotatef 2014-03-30T18:54:48Z minion: Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``rotatef''. 2014-03-30T18:54:55Z H4ns: bah 2014-03-30T18:55:16Z H4ns: dknight: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/m_rotate.htm 2014-03-30T18:58:08Z xan_ quit (Quit: leaving) 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specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_progv.htm 2014-03-30T20:25:56Z ggole quit 2014-03-30T20:26:16Z sl33k_ joined #lisp 2014-03-30T20:27:13Z [SLB] quit (Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt) 2014-03-30T20:30:57Z [SLB] joined #lisp 2014-03-30T20:32:27Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-30T20:34:08Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-30T20:35:31Z [SLB] quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-30T20:35:52Z Ralt` quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-30T20:36:42Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T20:37:12Z [SLB] joined #lisp 2014-03-30T20:38:28Z Ralt quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T20:40:27Z HG` joined #lisp 2014-03-30T20:40:48Z prxq__ is now known as prxq 2014-03-30T20:42:03Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-30T20:44:00Z vivalaradio joined #lisp 2014-03-30T20:53:48Z cpc26 joined #lisp 2014-03-30T20:54:57Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-30T20:56:23Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-30T20:57:27Z jxv quit (Quit: 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2014-03-30T21:23:28Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-30T21:24:38Z codeburg joined #lisp 2014-03-30T21:27:55Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-30T21:28:43Z cpc26 quit 2014-03-30T21:30:48Z therik: I can't load quicklisp-slime-helper: Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-function defsetf) 2014-03-30T21:31:41Z therik: it worked few minutes ago, I updated packages of quicklisp, it started complaining about different version of swank/slime 2014-03-30T21:32:01Z therik: so I updated slime through emacs and slime-helper started failing 2014-03-30T21:32:30Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-03-30T21:33:02Z keen_: What implementation is backend? 2014-03-30T21:33:05Z Ralt quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T21:33:42Z Joreji_ joined #lisp 2014-03-30T21:33:59Z nyef: Did you restart emacs in between attempts? 2014-03-30T21:34:21Z therik: keen_: sbcl, nyef yes, couple times 2014-03-30T21:37:11Z keen_: did you meet emacs error? 2014-03-30T21:37:45Z nyef: Yeah, that looks like an emacs-side error, not an SBCL-side error. 2014-03-30T21:38:25Z therik: yes, it's emacs error 2014-03-30T21:38:28Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec) 2014-03-30T21:38:41Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-30T21:38:53Z therik: I mean, I see the error in emacs 2014-03-30T21:41:55Z nisstyre joined #lisp 2014-03-30T21:42:11Z HG` quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-30T21:42:58Z therik: http://pastebin.com/grLGM7E3 loaded on line 15 2014-03-30T21:43:33Z keen_: emacs lisp has defsetf macro... 2014-03-30T21:43:57Z nyef: Emacs version issue, maybe? 2014-03-30T21:44:16Z dkcl quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T21:45:31Z loicbsd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-30T21:46:30Z therik: 24.3.1 2014-03-30T21:47:00Z doomlord_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T21:47:59Z bgs100 joined #lisp 2014-03-30T21:48:13Z Joreji_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T21:48:27Z wokko joined #lisp 2014-03-30T21:49:26Z gigetoo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T21:49:27Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-03-30T21:50:09Z keen_: 1. you got error from slime-repl.el 2014-03-30T21:50:10Z therik: ok, works now 2014-03-30T21:50:12Z keen_: 2. slime-repl.el has line (require 'cl-lib) and (eval-when-compile (require 'cl)) 2014-03-30T21:50:14Z keen_: 3. slime-repl.el intends to use defsetf from cl not cl-lib 2014-03-30T21:50:16Z keen_: maybe the problem lies around here 2014-03-30T21:50:17Z gigetoo joined #lisp 2014-03-30T21:50:21Z therik: I got (require 'slime) instead of slime-autoloads 2014-03-30T21:50:25Z therik: in .emacs 2014-03-30T21:50:38Z Shinmera quit (Quit: ZzZz) 2014-03-30T21:50:55Z therik: sorry for dumb questions, I'm really new into all of this 2014-03-30T21:53:23Z nyef: ... 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ZZZzzz…) 2014-03-31T02:09:38Z waa joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:11:31Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:11:45Z Guest26089 is now known as hugod 2014-03-31T02:12:14Z hugod is now known as Guest11694 2014-03-31T02:12:52Z Guest11694 is now known as hugoduncan` 2014-03-31T02:16:22Z jack_rabbit joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:16:46Z jack_rabbit quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T02:17:25Z nug700 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:18:49Z jack_rabbit joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:20:08Z beach joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:20:16Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2014-03-31T02:20:20Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:20:27Z pillton: Good morning beach. 2014-03-31T02:23:36Z hugoduncan` is now known as hugod` 2014-03-31T02:24:46Z waa quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-31T02:25:23Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-31T02:27:38Z nyef: Hello beach. 2014-03-31T02:30:46Z beach: nyef: Someone asked the other day how expensive a function call is these days. I am thinking "not expensive if the address is a constant offset" and "a bit more if the address is in a register, but still not too bad", but I am sure you know better than I do, right? 2014-03-31T02:30:50Z zxq9 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:31:15Z nyef: Actually, I have no idea. 2014-03-31T02:31:27Z beach: :( 2014-03-31T02:32:08Z nyef: My current working theory is that function calls are cheap enough that I shouldn't worry about them, and that there are far, far nastier bottlenecks in any performance profile that I'm likely to run into. 2014-03-31T02:32:27Z beach: Sounds right. 2014-03-31T02:32:31Z sellout: Now … generic dispatch on the other hand … 2014-03-31T02:33:17Z beach: sellout: I will submit a paper to ILC about that :) 2014-03-31T02:33:53Z sellout: beach: Nice. I look forward to reading it :) 2014-03-31T02:34:09Z ehaliewicz joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:34:12Z nyef: That said, it turns out that there's a build option in SBCL that makes any closure or funcallable-instance invocation slower. 2014-03-31T02:34:42Z beach: sellout: Actually, the gist of it is already in the SICL documentation on GitHub. 2014-03-31T02:35:05Z sellout: Ah, SICL, I keep meaning to dig into that. 2014-03-31T02:35:06Z nyef: (Also affects undefined-function traps, but those are hardly going to be on a time-critical path anyway.) 2014-03-31T02:35:36Z beach: nyef: What makes it slower? 2014-03-31T02:35:46Z nyef: Indirection via the linkage-table. 2014-03-31T02:35:59Z sellout: nyef: ./configure --enable-slow-funcall 2014-03-31T02:36:29Z nyef: No, it's actually --with-sb-dynamic-core or something like that. Also doesn't work on non-x86oid targets yet, for various reasons. 2014-03-31T02:36:38Z ehaliewicz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T02:36:40Z beach: nyef: And what does it do if it does not do an indirection via the linkage table? 2014-03-31T02:37:04Z ehaliewicz joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:37:11Z nyef: It's a fixup for an address in the runtime, so it just does a direct call instead of via a thunk. 2014-03-31T02:37:34Z nyef: It's mainly an optimization for quicker turnaround time when hacking on the runtime. 2014-03-31T02:37:42Z waa joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:38:56Z beach: Contrary to many others, I prefer solving a problem myself before looking at how others did it. That method frequently pays off in terms of improvements, but not always of course. 2014-03-31T02:39:06Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:39:17Z beach: This is why I don't know how SBCL does function calls. 2014-03-31T02:39:36Z patbarron joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:39:57Z beach: ... and why I can do faster generic dispatch. 2014-03-31T02:40:34Z beach: I am guessing at least twice as fast. Maybe 4 times. 2014-03-31T02:42:35Z beach: sellout: I should warn you. SICL is still a long way from actually running. So stick to the documentation at this point. 2014-03-31T02:42:39Z prxq_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-31T02:43:05Z nyef: SBCL's calling convention actually varies slightly by platform. 2014-03-31T02:44:36Z beach: nyef: Other than as required by differences in instruction set? If so, why? 2014-03-31T02:45:27Z nyef: Some of them hack return addresses to signal a multiple-value return vs. a single-value return, while some of them use status flags or other mechanisms. Some of them use boxed return address objects instead of unboxed return addresses. Some of them can call through a boxed function object directly while some of them have to compute the target address as a separate step. 2014-03-31T02:45:48Z ckoch786 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-31T02:47:55Z nyef: In some cases it's a matter of what's opportune. 2014-03-31T02:48:03Z beach: I see. 2014-03-31T02:48:40Z nyef: Also, in some cases it's a matter of "this is how it was originally implemented, and we haven't had the time and hardware to fix this backend up yet" 2014-03-31T02:49:44Z _tca quit (Changing host) 2014-03-31T02:49:44Z _tca joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:49:44Z _tca quit (Changing host) 2014-03-31T02:49:44Z _tca joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:51:42Z ehaliewicz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T02:52:19Z ehaliewicz joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:53:11Z ehaliewicz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T02:54:18Z ehaliewicz joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:54:57Z prxq_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T02:56:08Z keen_ left #lisp 2014-03-31T02:58:33Z optikalmouse joined #lisp 2014-03-31T03:01:54Z znode joined #lisp 2014-03-31T03:02:00Z Adlai` quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-31T03:05:46Z lmj` joined #lisp 2014-03-31T03:05:50Z Adlai` joined #lisp 2014-03-31T03:06:33Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-31T03:08:14Z lmj`: I have a closure that I would like to declare dynamic-extent. Technically there might be still accessible parts after the extent ends, but if so then they aren't referenced. 2014-03-31T03:09:37Z nand1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T03:10:09Z lmj`: Specifically, another thread is executing the closure, and the function might be finishing up when the extent ends, but not doing anything except exiting. 2014-03-31T03:12:07Z waa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T03:13:01Z zRecursive joined #lisp 2014-03-31T03:14:56Z jxv joined #lisp 2014-03-31T03:15:13Z nyef: Not a bright idea, unless you know EXACTLY what the compiler does with such constructs, how they can go wrong, and can make sure that even in your given scenario that they won't go wrong. 2014-03-31T03:16:55Z znode_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T03:17:08Z nyef: Hrm... SBCL doesn't support CAS on lexical variables, does it? 2014-03-31T03:17:27Z lmj`: nyef: In this case creating closures on the stack is a big win, enough to look at implementation-dependent behavior. 2014-03-31T03:18:30Z lmj`: Suppose we have a closure which just sets a variable. It's executed on one thread, and another thread notices the variable change. 2014-03-31T03:18:56Z nyef: You're going to want to involve memory barriers there. 2014-03-31T03:19:17Z lmj`: Now, once the variable changes, it's still possible the closure is finishing up its execution. 2014-03-31T03:19:22Z nyef: Or even more heavyweight synchronization primitives, but at the very least memory barriers. 2014-03-31T03:19:35Z lmj`: But if it is finishing, then it doesn't matter in any real sense. 2014-03-31T03:19:39Z znode quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-31T03:19:44Z aluuu joined #lisp 2014-03-31T03:20:06Z nyef: It might matter to the GC or to the function epilogue in the closure. 2014-03-31T03:21:20Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T03:21:49Z lmj`: nyef: seeing the variable change serves as a memory barrier. The lag from one thread to another has already been traversed. 2014-03-31T03:22:05Z lmj`: (serves in place of a memory barrier) 2014-03-31T03:22:26Z nyef: Umm... No it doesn't. You need the memory barrier in ORDER to see the variable change. 2014-03-31T03:23:27Z lmj`: Yes, I'm thinking of regular non-stack closure variables. 2014-03-31T03:23:33Z lmj`: (I'm agreeing) 2014-03-31T03:25:32Z ustunozg_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T03:25:32Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-31T03:25:35Z nyef: I'm thinking of any multi-core communication here. Some systems simply don't do automatic cache invalidation when another CPU touches cached memory. 2014-03-31T03:27:28Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T03:30:01Z leo2007: Xach: is there some way to get brief info on a system (for example weblocks-yui) in quicklisp? 2014-03-31T03:30:19Z leo2007: at least a link to the project url can be really handy 2014-03-31T03:31:13Z lmj`: nyef: a semphore does lock cmpxchg on x86, which would be sufficient. 2014-03-31T03:31:37Z grumio2 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T03:32:23Z wheelsucker joined #lisp 2014-03-31T03:32:42Z nyef: Yes, or you could use COMPARE-AND-SWAP, or an explicit BARRIER operation. 2014-03-31T03:33:35Z nyef: If you're using SBCL, that is. Dunno about other implementations. 2014-03-31T03:35:13Z nyef: Also note that SBCL has magic involved with D-X closures to allow the closed-over variables to be allocated on the stack as part of a normal stack frame, rather than as explicit VALUE-CELL objects. 2014-03-31T03:35:25Z frkout_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T03:36:00Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-03-31T03:36:43Z lmj`: Yes I was wondering if it would even work to execute a closure that references stack variables from another thread. Initial tests seem to say it does. 2014-03-31T03:37:23Z loke_: nyef: How does it work? I'd assume it only does that for closures that have dynamic scope? 2014-03-31T03:37:41Z loke_: But if that is the case, how could it be reachable from another thread? 2014-03-31T03:37:50Z nyef: It should, but you'd need to make sure that the stack frame holding the variables stays in-scope for as long as the closure references are still reachable. 2014-03-31T03:38:33Z nyef: When you declare a closure to be dynamic-extent then you are making a statement about its lifetime relative to the closed-over context. 2014-03-31T03:39:03Z loke_: nyef: Ah, OK 2014-03-31T03:39:13Z lmj`: I can ensure that, but there's no "callback" for when the function _actually_ is done exiting. 2014-03-31T03:39:21Z nyef: There's a tricky piece of analysis that determines if a closed-over variable is referenced only from dynamic-extent closures or not. 2014-03-31T03:39:38Z keppy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-31T03:40:37Z MjrTom quit (Quit: Planet Earth is blue, and there's nothing I can do) 2014-03-31T03:41:19Z nyef: If I'm correctly remembering how closures work on SBCL, the closure object itself (the "LEXENV") is discarded as soon as all of the closed-over values and references to closed-over variables are copied out. 2014-03-31T03:41:32Z nyef: And the closure-function is always heap-allocated anyway. 2014-03-31T03:41:43Z nyef: So you're probably safe in that respect. 2014-03-31T03:41:47Z nyef: ... Maybe. 2014-03-31T03:44:15Z nisstyre quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 2014-03-31T03:45:36Z znode_ quit (Quit: Lingo - http://www.lingoirc.com) 2014-03-31T03:45:41Z aeth_ is now known as aeth 2014-03-31T03:45:49Z lmj`: This is the cilk slow clone, so the consing itself isn't particularly significant. Instead, it's a battle with the GC, which is the main thing that thwarts parallel speedup. 2014-03-31T03:46:58Z nyef: Ugh. 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It gives this error signaling a fila which in theory should be in the tarball, but it's not: bash: output/prefix.def: No such file or directory 2014-03-31T07:19:24Z H4ns: harovali: you need to build it first. i suggest that your read the documentation. 2014-03-31T07:19:44Z H4ns: harovali: it clearly describes the steps that are required. 2014-03-31T07:20:28Z harovali: H4ns: thanks, I got hurried by the web page 2014-03-31T07:20:41Z H4ns: harovali: if you're in a hurry, install the binary 2014-03-31T07:21:57Z harovali: H4ns: thanks 2014-03-31T07:23:11Z zRecursive left #lisp 2014-03-31T07:25:00Z arenz joined #lisp 2014-03-31T07:25:50Z Beetny joined #lisp 2014-03-31T07:27:47Z zajn joined #lisp 2014-03-31T07:31:07Z zajn_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-31T07:32:10Z Ralt joined #lisp 2014-03-31T07:35:00Z KCL quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T07:35:18Z yacks quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-31T07:35:20Z mindCrime_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 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I'm looking to get started with Lisp using Gigamonkey's Practical Common Lisp (http://gigamonkeys.com/book/) 2014-03-31T13:52:06Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-31T13:52:09Z Amaan: He suggest using Lispbox 2014-03-31T13:52:13Z Amaan: But that seems to be outdated 2014-03-31T13:52:23Z Amaan: So...what do I use? 2014-03-31T13:52:26Z Amaan: Quicklisp? 2014-03-31T13:52:35Z Shinmera: Lispstick if you're on Windows 2014-03-31T13:52:38Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-31T13:53:20Z Amaan: I'm on Ubuntu 2014-03-31T13:53:45Z dlowe: you're right, though. lispbox didn't really have the staying power we were hoping. 2014-03-31T13:54:05Z gigetoo joined #lisp 2014-03-31T13:54:05Z dlowe: Amaan: what editor do you use? 2014-03-31T13:54:12Z Amaan: Sublime Text 2014-03-31T13:54:55Z dlowe: gnu clisp is probably best to start out with, if you don't have editor support 2014-03-31T13:55:10Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T13:55:25Z dlowe: it's slow and lacks some features, but you won't miss it in the beginning 2014-03-31T13:55:48Z Amaan: Okay 2014-03-31T13:55:59Z loke: Amaan: You might want to get into Emacs 2014-03-31T13:56:12Z Amaan: Yeah, I was considering trying it out a bit 2014-03-31T13:56:15Z loke: Amaan: It's Takes a bit of initial effort, but definitely worth it 2014-03-31T13:56:20Z z0d: puchacz: I don't know that library 2014-03-31T13:56:23Z Shinmera: Last I checked sublime doesn't have a repl for CL :( 2014-03-31T13:56:35Z dlowe: Sublime Text is hard to beat, even with emacs. 2014-03-31T13:56:36Z loke: Shinmera: There is no reason to use sublime after learning Emacs 2014-03-31T13:57:02Z H4ns: no repl? sublime text => beaten :D 2014-03-31T13:57:03Z Shinmera: loke: I agree, I was just disappointed. 2014-03-31T13:57:11Z puchacz: z0d: ok, thx 2014-03-31T13:57:26Z dlowe: Someone could probably write a slime for sublime 2014-03-31T13:57:35Z dlowe: it's just that you lazy lispers haven't gotten around to it 2014-03-31T13:57:52Z H4ns: damn, now you got us 2014-03-31T13:58:09Z loke: dlowe: Well, probably because once you know Lisp, you know enough to use Emacs :-) 2014-03-31T13:58:09Z p_l: I have Emacs (and ViM). There's no need for such inferior editor as Sublime 2014-03-31T13:58:09Z Amaan: Hahaha 2014-03-31T13:58:13Z dlowe: I'd do it, but I'm too cheap to use sublime. 2014-03-31T13:58:34Z Shinmera: Isn't the editor to bash on right now Atom or something? 2014-03-31T13:58:40Z dlowe: Too easy. 2014-03-31T13:58:58Z mindCrime_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T13:59:04Z dlowe: I predict it will be incredibly popular, anyway. 2014-03-31T13:59:14Z Amaan: Oh, yeah. It already is 2014-03-31T13:59:39Z Amaan: It's good to have a good editor in the browser, though 2014-03-31T13:59:41Z z0d: puchacz: HTML-TEMPLATE has everything one would need 99% of the time 2014-03-31T13:59:44Z zickzackv: puchaz, I like cl-mustache, beacause of mustache 2014-03-31T13:59:45Z user3298 quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-31T13:59:45Z Amaan: s/good/decent/ 2014-03-31T13:59:46Z mindCrime_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T13:59:49Z dlowe: There are a *lot* of web developers out there who want a customizable editor. 2014-03-31T13:59:55Z loke: There is always a next shiny thing - worse than the last shiny thing - that the kids will jump head-first into 2014-03-31T14:00:02Z puchacz: ok :-) 2014-03-31T14:00:15Z loke: Remember Ruby? It used to be a thing. :-) 2014-03-31T14:00:32Z vivalaradio quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T14:00:43Z dlowe: loke: yeah, like that internet thing. Good thing we stuck with snail mail and phones. 2014-03-31T14:00:57Z ahungry_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:01:01Z Amaan: loke: Okay, so if I try using emacs, what should I be downloading with it for Common Lisp? 2014-03-31T14:01:01Z loke: dlowe: You speak as though the Internet is a new thing 2014-03-31T14:01:03Z Amaan: Lispbox? 2014-03-31T14:01:10Z vivalaradio joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:01:18Z yacks joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:01:28Z H4ns: Amaan: http://www.mohiji.org/2011/01/31/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ 2014-03-31T14:01:31Z loke: There was something announced not long ago. What was the name. 2014-03-31T14:01:33Z loke: Lispstick? 2014-03-31T14:01:47Z Shinmera: LispStick is Windows only 2014-03-31T14:01:50Z Shinmera: Sadly. 2014-03-31T14:01:50Z dlowe: loke: My next example was steam engines and horses. 2014-03-31T14:01:59Z dlowe: Technical progress does happen. 2014-03-31T14:02:03Z loke: dlowe: for sure 2014-03-31T14:02:40Z Amaan: H4ns: Thanks! 2014-03-31T14:03:06Z dlowe: So perhaps we shouldn't be smug about new things that might actually be better than what came before. 2014-03-31T14:03:33Z H4ns: dlowe: i'm only smug about things that "just have to be written" 2014-03-31T14:03:44Z loke: dlowe: Since most new shiny things are _not_ actually better, I reserve the right to be sceptical until proven wrong. 2014-03-31T14:04:23Z dlowe: H4ns: that was quite tongue in cheek 2014-03-31T14:04:29Z mal_: there are things that are vast improvements on most of their successors :) 2014-03-31T14:04:46Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-31T14:05:08Z vivalaradio quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-31T14:06:07Z Shinmera: What I love about Atom is that you can write a theme that erases your hard drive. 2014-03-31T14:06:18Z Shinmera: 2014-03-31T14:06:34Z loke: Shinmera: Arguably you can do that in Emacs too :-) 2014-03-31T14:07:18Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:07:26Z Shinmera: loke: I suppose, but if you're going to introduce theme files I'd think you would go about securing them. 2014-03-31T14:08:40Z sandbender1512 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:08:42Z dkcl didn't know about :quicklisp-slime-helper 2014-03-31T14:09:04Z Xach: Not perfect, but ok and helpful. 2014-03-31T14:09:18Z loke: Hmm, the tutorial linked to earlier doesn't seem to mention slime-fancy 2014-03-31T14:09:33Z loke: if you don't enable that, you're stuck with the horrible inferior-lisp thingy 2014-03-31T14:09:40Z loke: (or is slime-fancy enabled by default these days?) 2014-03-31T14:09:42Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T14:10:02Z Xach: I don't think it's enabled by default. 2014-03-31T14:10:13Z Xach: quicklisp-slime-helper enables it though. 2014-03-31T14:10:47Z loke: Xach: I remember using SLIME for a while without fancy and I had no idea why people were saying it was so good. To me, it seemed very limited. Then I learned about fancy... :-) 2014-03-31T14:10:53Z loke: Xach: Ah. Lovely. 2014-03-31T14:12:20Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:14:55Z wokko left #lisp 2014-03-31T14:15:40Z user3298 quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-31T14:16:17Z banana123 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:18:25Z Xach: What is the best way to get paredit these days? Is there anything automatic? 2014-03-31T14:18:34Z Xach: M-x install-paredit part of emacs? 2014-03-31T14:19:10Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:19:18Z Munksgaard: Xach: What's wrong with M-x package-install paredit ? 2014-03-31T14:19:20Z oGMo: melpa? 2014-03-31T14:19:25Z oGMo: that 2014-03-31T14:19:35Z Asgeir joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:19:53Z Xach: Munksgaard: I don't know what that is. Is that the best? 2014-03-31T14:20:20Z oGMo: if you're configured for melpa's package repository, it's sortof the QL of emacs these days 2014-03-31T14:20:36Z oGMo: http://melpa.milkbox.net/#/ 2014-03-31T14:20:37Z sfa quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-31T14:20:54Z Munksgaard: Xach: Yes, I'm fairly certain that's the preferred interface using newer versions of Emacs (24+). Basically the old package.el has been included in emacs. 2014-03-31T14:21:59Z Munksgaard: oGMo: Hm, you're right, it doesn't seem like paredit is part of the default repository? 2014-03-31T14:22:18Z sfa joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:23:00Z Munksgaard: Do note though, that melpa builds directly from git, and might be unstable. Marmalade is another repository that's supposedly more stable. 2014-03-31T14:23:01Z oGMo: Munksgaard: probably not but i doubt much is heh 2014-03-31T14:23:12Z oGMo: ah true 2014-03-31T14:23:24Z oGMo: though paredit at least is stable afaik ;) 2014-03-31T14:23:36Z xificurC quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T14:23:38Z Munksgaard: Indeed :) 2014-03-31T14:24:14Z Munksgaard: (http://marmalade-repo.org/ for the record) 2014-03-31T14:25:40Z ehu quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-31T14:26:16Z Munksgaard: Xach: You don't use emacs normally? 2014-03-31T14:26:41Z Xach: Munksgaard: I use emacs all the time but don't keep up-to-date with the newest things. 2014-03-31T14:27:10Z vivalaradio joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:27:13Z Xach: I guess 2014 is my 20th emacs anniversary! Woo! 2014-03-31T14:27:52Z Xach: Right now I have a repo of stuff that I set up on new machines and I have paredit.el checked into it. Looking for a better way if available. I'm not sure configuring a package repo for emacs is it, but maybe it is. 2014-03-31T14:28:00Z Munksgaard: Xach: Ah, alright :) 2014-03-31T14:29:36Z dlowe: Xach: I think it is, actually. 2014-03-31T14:29:54Z Munksgaard: I'm hardly an expert on these matters, but the package repositories are, as oGMo pointed out, emacs' QL, and very neat to have on emacs installs. Pretty much any package of newer date you could want is there somewhere. 2014-03-31T14:29:56Z dlowe recently switched from emacs apt packages to marmalade, with good results. 2014-03-31T14:30:13Z Xach: Ok, cool. I'll give it a try on next install. 2014-03-31T14:30:44Z Xach: My emacs initial setup is very similar to my old CL initial setup: grab a bunch of stuff from random places and then never change. 2014-03-31T14:33:52Z oGMo: heh same 2014-03-31T14:34:47Z xificurC joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:35:13Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:36:52Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:36:53Z Shinmera: I really like ELPA/Marmalade and package-install. Makes it very convenient to try out things and stay up to date. 2014-03-31T14:37:04Z Shinmera: *MELPA 2014-03-31T14:37:22Z dlowe: I have a git repo in my home dir called rc with a bunch of configuration files in it. It also has a makefile which makes symlinks to all the places those config files are supposed to be 2014-03-31T14:37:26Z oGMo: the only problem is suddenly there are a zillion useful-looking packages instantly available ;/ 2014-03-31T14:38:11Z oGMo: dlowe: yeah my whole ~ is a git repository .. sortof works but i'm terrible about keeping it synchronized and it doesn't handle updates to 3rd party stuff 2014-03-31T14:38:34Z Joreji_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:38:38Z Shinmera: While we're talking about emacs packages, I couldn't live without expand-region and multiple-cursors. 2014-03-31T14:39:20Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:39:38Z Xach: NO! Is forbidden! Only emacs packages for common lisp may be discussed. 2014-03-31T14:40:20Z xificurC quit (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 2014-03-31T14:40:37Z PuffTheMagic joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:41:39Z Shinmera: Fine. I'll instead talk about how annoying slime is when you're looking up the definition for a method with M-. . It opens up a new buffer to select from the files/locations, which is good and fine, but when I go through those with the arrow keys it opens up a bunch of extra windows/regions that I don't want. Is there any way to stop this from happening? 2014-03-31T14:41:44Z atgreen quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-31T14:42:07Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:42:39Z Shinmera: As in, either switch the previous window's buffer or don't open a new window at all until I hit enter 2014-03-31T14:42:50Z nyef joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:45:27Z nicdev: i am trying to learn CL-LAUNCH and I have attempted to run the following both from commandline as `cl -sp uiop/os '(getcwd)'` or as in the script here http://paste.lisp.org/display/141862 but i cannot get it to work. any pointers on what i am getting wrong? 2014-03-31T14:45:33Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:45:59Z Xach: nicdev: what happens when you try? 2014-03-31T14:46:09Z Munksgaard: Shinmera: What does expand-region do 2014-03-31T14:46:11Z Munksgaard: ? 2014-03-31T14:47:35Z Shinmera: Munksgaard: https://github.com/magnars/expand-region.el 2014-03-31T14:48:12Z Shinmera: Munksgaard: the linked video shows it in action quite nicely. 2014-03-31T14:48:33Z wws is now known as billstclair 2014-03-31T14:48:40Z billstclair quit (Changing host) 2014-03-31T14:48:40Z billstclair joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:49:32Z nicdev: Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/+31GM/1 2014-03-31T14:49:41Z mindCrime__ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T14:50:09Z mindCrime_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T14:50:12Z nicdev: Xach: that's just of the backtrace 2014-03-31T14:50:19Z drmeister quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-31T14:51:07Z Munksgaard: Shinmera: That is pretty neat! 2014-03-31T14:51:47Z JuanDaugherty quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-31T14:55:05Z Xach: nicdev: i see. sorry, i don't know why it doesn't work. 2014-03-31T15:00:04Z seangrove quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T15:01:08Z yuuhi` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-31T15:02:44Z nyef: nicdev: How old is ASDF on that system? 2014-03-31T15:03:08Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-31T15:03:33Z Francesca23 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:03:40Z yuuhi` joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:04:01Z nyef: nicdev: Alternately, look into how system definition search is set up in that scenario. 2014-03-31T15:04:12Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:04:33Z Francesca23 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T15:06:24Z ndrei quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-31T15:06:46Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:14:11Z Shinmera: Xach: Quick question regarding Quicklisp project issue tickets: Should I close mine myself once it has been included in a quicklisp release or should I leave that up to you? 2014-03-31T15:16:02Z Xach: I'll close 'em, thanks. 2014-03-31T15:17:03Z ckoch786 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:17:16Z Asgeir: hi! just to inform you that my slime problem got resolved when switching to the git version of slime 2014-03-31T15:17:27Z Asgeir: and to thanks again people who helped me 2014-03-31T15:21:00Z zajn_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:22:08Z zajn quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T15:22:30Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:22:43Z jxv joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:23:46Z zajn joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:25:56Z TDog joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:26:45Z vivalaradio quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T15:26:48Z Code_Man` joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:27:11Z vivalaradio joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:27:15Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-31T15:27:15Z zajn_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-31T15:27:51Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:28:53Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:29:10Z zajn__ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:29:15Z yrk quit (Changing host) 2014-03-31T15:29:15Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-03-31T15:29:28Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2014-03-31T15:30:55Z banana123 quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2014-03-31T15:31:13Z nicdev: Xach: ;;; (ASDF/UPGRADE:ASDF-VERSION) => "3.0.2" 2014-03-31T15:31:35Z vivalaradio quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-31T15:31:55Z zajn quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-31T15:31:59Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-31T15:32:07Z nicdev: nyef: that note above was meant for you. 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I don't understand how this form is supposed to work: (ps:ps (ps:lisp (list 1 2 3 4))) ---> "1(2, 3, 4);" 2014-03-31T16:04:31Z puchacz: whereas 2014-03-31T16:04:44Z puchacz: (ps:ps (ps:lisp '(list 1 2 3 4))) ---> "[1, 2, 3, 4];" 2014-03-31T16:05:03Z puchacz: how am I supposed to pass a list from lisp to javascript? 2014-03-31T16:07:23Z REPLeffect joined #lisp 2014-03-31T16:07:57Z jasom: puchacz: I'm not sure you understand how ps works 2014-03-31T16:08:09Z puchacz: jasom: apparently not 2014-03-31T16:08:31Z nullman joined #lisp 2014-03-31T16:08:45Z jasom: puchacz: it compiles a lisp-like language to javascript. The ps:lisp function calls to common-lisp code at compile time 2014-03-31T16:08:50Z nullman quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T16:09:08Z ebrasca joined #lisp 2014-03-31T16:09:19Z jasom: (parenscript compile time, not lisp compile time 2014-03-31T16:09:22Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-31T16:09:29Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-31T16:10:45Z puchacz: jasom: if I call (ps:ps (ps:lisp my-var)) for different values of my-var, will it get recompiled? 2014-03-31T16:10:48Z puchacz: probably not 2014-03-31T16:11:06Z bgs100 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T16:11:42Z jasom: puchacz: "The form provided to LISP is evaluated, and its result is compiled as though it were Parenscript code." 2014-03-31T16:11:57Z joneshf-laptop quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T16:12:08Z jasom: so (ps:ps (ps:lisp (list 1 2 3 4)) is the same as (ps:ps (1 2 3 4)) which is a funcion call to a function named "1" 2014-03-31T16:12:19Z puchacz: jasom: ok, I think I understand 2014-03-31T16:12:55Z 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2014-03-31T18:56:51Z jasom: got it. I'll just move it to the defpackage 2014-03-31T18:57:05Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-31T18:57:16Z eudoxia quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-31T18:59:24Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-31T19:00:08Z pjb: or use eval-when 2014-03-31T19:00:18Z pjb: But better to use defpackage if you can. 2014-03-31T19:00:40Z pjb: (sometimes, packages have circular dependencies, so you need to use import). 2014-03-31T19:10:07Z ahungry_ quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-31T19:11:43Z ahungry_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:13:06Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:13:13Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T19:13:29Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-31T19:13:54Z jasom: does ASDF guarantee an initial value of *package* for each file? Each system if the previous is no? 2014-03-31T19:14:57Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:15:19Z ehu` is now known as ehu 2014-03-31T19:15:36Z TheMoonMaster joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:15:42Z zbigniew joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:15:47Z vivalaradio quit 2014-03-31T19:16:00Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2014-03-31T19:17:35Z c74d quit (Quit: c74d) 2014-03-31T19:17:43Z derrida joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:18:42Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-31T19:18:50Z redline6561 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:20:13Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-31T19:21:07Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:22:50Z c74d joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:27:26Z ustunozgur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T19:27:26Z nightshade427 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T19:27:47Z H4ns: jasom: asdf and packages are orthogonal 2014-03-31T19:28:01Z ustunozgur joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:28:08Z jasom: H4ns: nothing I said implies I think otherwise 2014-03-31T19:28:29Z jasom: H4ns: I was just wondering if asdf sanitizes the value of *package* before compiling 2014-03-31T19:28:30Z Xach: jasom: I don't know. It's typical to start each package with either in-package (most of the time) or defpackage (sometimes). 2014-03-31T19:28:43Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-31T19:28:45Z ahungry_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T19:28:50Z Xach: Some people use cl:in-package or cl:defpackage. I don't go that far. 2014-03-31T19:28:53Z jasom: Xach: I need to start with in-package since I'm shadowing cl:defpackage 2014-03-31T19:28:56Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:29:00Z nightshade427 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:29:02Z jasom: or I could just cl:defpackage I suppose 2014-03-31T19:29:30Z c74d quit (Quit: c74d) 2014-03-31T19:29:49Z H4ns: jasom: well, you seemed to ask whether you could depend on asdf initializing *package* for you, which would be kind of, say, unorthogonal 2014-03-31T19:30:10Z H4ns: jasom: even if it did, i'd not depend on it. asdf might not be the end of package definition facilities. 2014-03-31T19:30:15Z H4ns: (one might hope) 2014-03-31T19:30:17Z jasom: H4ns: I was wondering if it bound it to e.g. cl-user or somethign 2014-03-31T19:30:33Z Xach: jasom: I don't think it does, but it has changed in many ways since I last looked into it. 2014-03-31T19:30:49Z H4ns: jasom: if you'd depend on that, i'd say it'd be a mistake. 2014-03-31T19:30:54Z jasom: I know Fare is pushing for more determinism at system boundaries 2014-03-31T19:31:20Z jasom: H4ns: fair enough 2014-03-31T19:32:51Z foreignFunction quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-31T19:33:38Z harovali quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-31T19:34:05Z nilsi_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T19:34:08Z diadara quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-31T19:35:19Z jxv quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-31T19:35:53Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:36:13Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:37:23Z gendl quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-31T19:38:00Z araujo joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:38:24Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:40:38Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-31T19:42:19Z joneshf-work joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:42:33Z nand1` joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:43:36Z nand1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T19:43:44Z ahungry_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:44:48Z nand1` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T19:45:02Z pnpuff left #lisp 2014-03-31T19:47:43Z bjorkintosh quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-31T19:49:15Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:50:13Z ggole quit 2014-03-31T19:52:55Z grumio2 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-31T19:54:25Z Crystal24 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:55:13Z Crystal24 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T19:55:33Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:57:17Z [6502] joined #lisp 2014-03-31T19:58:35Z [SLB] quit (Excess Flood) 2014-03-31T19:59:08Z sdemarre quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-31T19:59:16Z drmeiste_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-31T19:59:53Z [SLB] joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:00:02Z zacharias quit (Quit: Bye!) 2014-03-31T20:01:20Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T20:01:37Z grumio2 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:04:46Z Joreji_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:08:20Z nug700 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:08:56Z zickzackv joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:09:03Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-31T20:09:08Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-31T20:09:43Z bocaneri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T20:12:05Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:13:13Z m00n quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-31T20:15:07Z MjrTom joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:16:37Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-03-31T20:17:06Z vantage|home quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T20:18:33Z Jayk97 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:20:41Z diadara joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:21:31Z KCL quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-31T20:25:45Z francogrex joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:26:36Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-31T20:26:48Z user3298 quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-31T20:27:02Z francogrex: i finally got hemlock running (clx and terminal) on linux x86 and my arm phone. i was not impressed to say the least. Actually I was quite disgusted by it and felt like throwing up a few times. 2014-03-31T20:27:48Z jasom: francogrex: I never quite got it working; I had it almost working a few times (one time it dropped every other character input on the terminal, for example) 2014-03-31T20:27:59Z H4ns: francogrex: had you not expected that something must not be quite right with hemlock if it is used so little? 2014-03-31T20:28:01Z jasom: though that was portable-hemlock, not the cmucl 2014-03-31T20:28:08Z pjb: Did you patch it? 2014-03-31T20:28:15Z pjb: Was it on some specific implementation? 2014-03-31T20:28:38Z pjb: Do you have some public git repo with your changes? 2014-03-31T20:28:40Z francogrex: i tried with many, ccl, sbcl, it runs but is quite "fragile" 2014-03-31T20:29:11Z pjb: And yes, what "fork" was it? Portable-hemlock, or the one that comes from cmucl or from ccl? 2014-03-31T20:29:15Z francogrex: pjb: this one on github works fine, stick it in quicklisp and run 2014-03-31T20:29:23Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-03-31T20:29:29Z francogrex: just a sec 2014-03-31T20:30:47Z pjb: The thing is that we'd need to provide several backends for the various users, platforms and usecases. Terminal, MacOSX, X (clx+mcclim), and MS-Windows. This is a lot of work. And it has to be done modularly to be maintainable. 2014-03-31T20:30:57Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:31:06Z francogrex: https://github.com/phmarek/hemlock-editor stick it in quicklisp local-projects and ql:quickload "hemlock.tty" or "hemlock.clx" ... it runs 2014-03-31T20:31:16Z pjb: Thanks. 2014-03-31T20:31:42Z francogrex: linux only 2014-03-31T20:31:48Z user3298 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:32:11Z loicbsd quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-31T20:32:46Z francogrex: H4ns: I expected, but was worth a try, especially on arm phone, where emacs sucks up a lotta space 2014-03-31T20:32:52Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-31T20:33:09Z Joreji_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-31T20:34:21Z pjb: Here, it fails on clx: Connection failure to X2816.0 server display 0: Protocol version mismatch 2014-03-31T20:34:33Z pjb: But that's not hemlock fault. 2014-03-31T20:34:50Z Joreji_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:34:58Z francogrex: pjb: the one is quicklisp repo phemlock also works fine 2014-03-31T20:35:30Z francogrex: would be (ql:quickload "hemlock") simply and then (hemlock) 2014-03-31T20:36:23Z francogrex: though the one on github works fine for me even the clx version. Try the tty? 2014-03-31T20:36:26Z jasom: Hmm; thoughts on using property lists (i.e. GET) versus just having a hash-table that maps from symbols to a given property? 2014-03-31T20:36:33Z pjb: and on ccl hemlock.tty gives > Error: Conditional expression parser not yet written. / > While executing: HEMLOCK.TERMINFO:TPARM, 2014-03-31T20:36:58Z francogrex: strange 2014-03-31T20:37:16Z H4ns: jasom: use hash tables. property lists are a relict from the past 2014-03-31T20:37:36Z pjb: As you said it's brittle. The slightest different in version of system, libraries, X server, implementation, will break it. 2014-03-31T20:37:39Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:37:58Z pjb: jasom: use plist when you don't have a lot of entries: it's much faster and cheaper in memory. 2014-03-31T20:38:20Z H4ns: right. but symbol property lists: no 2014-03-31T20:38:22Z pjb: jasom: use com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.dictionary to abstract it away! :-) 2014-03-31T20:38:29Z jasom: pjb: property lists not plists 2014-03-31T20:39:08Z pjb: Well, if it's your own symbols, why not. But managing a package for symbols to attach plists is a little more work. 2014-03-31T20:39:20Z pjb: It's sometimes useful, if you provide it as a user interface. 2014-03-31T20:39:27Z zajn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T20:39:40Z jasom: pjb: clhs get 2014-03-31T20:39:44Z jasom: clhs get 2014-03-31T20:39:44Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_get.htm 2014-03-31T20:39:59Z jasom: I'm talking about those property lists. And no, it's not my own symbols 2014-03-31T20:40:05Z pjb: Once, I loaded mail logs and interned a symbol for each message-id in a special package. So I could easily refer to the message meta data by typing the message-id as a symbol as the repl. 2014-03-31T20:41:20Z jxv joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:41:29Z jasom: But my intuition was what H4ns said, so that's what I'm going to do 2014-03-31T20:44:11Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:46:35Z dstatyvka joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:49:54Z bjorkintosh joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:50:02Z harovali joined #lisp 2014-03-31T20:50:22Z cmack quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T20:50:43Z jasom: hmm, none of the functions that can optionaly take a package designator (and use the current package otherwise) seem to list any error for the case that the package designator is a name that does not currently name a package. 2014-03-31T20:51:07Z jasom: It seems to make sense to just signal a correctable error of type package-error, but I guess that's not required by the spec? 2014-03-31T20:51:11Z pjb: But they still signal package-error. 2014-03-31T20:52:05Z H4ns: jasom: sadly, the spec is underwhelming when it comes to well-defined error reporting. 2014-03-31T20:52:16Z pjb: jasom: it's included in the typing of the parameter. 2014-03-31T20:52:39Z pjb: The parameter is specified to be a package designator (or if not passed, defaults to *package*). 2014-03-31T20:52:45Z H4ns: jasom: some conditions are actually specified as being required, but in general, there is no common ground for programmatic error handling across implementations. 2014-03-31T20:53:18Z jasom: pjb: delete-package (for example) requires it to signal package-error, import, however does not. 2014-03-31T20:53:20Z pjb: If you give arguments that are not of the right type (ie. if it's not a package or a string designator naming an existing package), then a type-error could be signaled. 2014-03-31T20:54:47Z keppy quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-31T20:56:08Z pjb: But you're right, 1.4.4.3 seems to say that it's up to the implementation. 2014-03-31T20:56:35Z pjb: "Except as explicitly specified otherwise, the consequences are undefined if these type restrictions are violated." 2014-03-31T20:56:53Z pjb: Happily, CL implementations are not written in C implementers… 2014-03-31T21:04:11Z wgreenhouse quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-31T21:04:30Z wgreenhouse joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:06:42Z chameco joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:07:55Z pierre1_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-31T21:07:55Z DataLinkDroid joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:09:05Z francogrex quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T21:10:29Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2014-03-31T21:14:06Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T21:15:50Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-31T21:17:26Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:19:21Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:20:04Z tajjada joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:20:13Z jasom: pjb: except when you declare (safety 0) 2014-03-31T21:20:43Z zygentoma is now known as zygentoma^umzug 2014-03-31T21:23:09Z Asgeir joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:25:11Z Asgeir: Hello! When creating an object, is it idiomatic to let some of its slots unbound, or should I give them all some default value ? 2014-03-31T21:26:18Z jasom: Asgeir: I've seen it both ways; if it's always an error to use the default value, then I leave it unbound. If there is a sane default then I give it a default value. 2014-03-31T21:27:02Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:27:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-31T21:28:16Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:28:25Z ltbarcly joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:28:55Z Asgeir: thanks for your answer 2014-03-31T21:29:59Z jasom: Asgeir: the other time you tend to see it be unbound is when it's expensive to generate the default value, and there is a reasonable use-case for creating the object, and then setting that slot much later 2014-03-31T21:31:31Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-31T21:31:32Z oleo quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-31T21:31:53Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:32:03Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:32:03Z attila_lendvai quit (Disconnected by services) 2014-03-31T21:32:03Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Changing host) 2014-03-31T21:32:03Z attila_lendvai1 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:34:02Z MjrTom`-` joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:34:02Z MjrTom quit (Disconnected by services) 2014-03-31T21:34:10Z MjrTom`-` is now known as MjrTom 2014-03-31T21:34:44Z dim: any NYC lispers? ;-) 2014-03-31T21:36:27Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:36:29Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-31T21:37:08Z eni joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:40:32Z Tijuanense joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:41:47Z wokko joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:41:47Z wokko quit (Changing host) 2014-03-31T21:41:47Z wokko joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:43:58Z keppy joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:44:11Z seangrove joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:46:48Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-31T21:47:26Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:47:51Z Asgeir: a second question, then: I'm deserializing instances of . It has three slots named foo, bar, baz ; bar and baz are optional. When doing the deserialization, I tend to build first a list (:foo 3 :bar nil :baz 2) from my input, and then calling #'mapcan to filter the null couples before giving it to make-instance (or make-myclass, in fact). It's usable only when every slot is meant to be non-null. Maybe shall I just give make-insta 2014-03-31T21:47:52Z Tijuanense quit (Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))) 2014-03-31T21:47:56Z Xach: Asgeir: it can also be handy to leave something unbound, then add a method on slot-unbound to initialize it lazily. 2014-03-31T21:48:29Z Asgeir: oh, didn't knew about slot-unbound, thanks 2014-03-31T21:49:22Z Asgeir: I should just call make-instance, an then (setf slot-value) or so. 2014-03-31T21:50:14Z ehaliewicz joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:51:24Z grumio2 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-31T21:53:03Z Xach: Really? If you have the values in hand, it can be useful to pass them with the initargs. 2014-03-31T21:53:19Z Xach: Why would you do make-instance and then setf slot-value? 2014-03-31T21:53:45Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:53:58Z drewc joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:54:45Z eee-blt quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-31T21:55:13Z Joreji_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T21:55:27Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec) 2014-03-31T21:55:34Z tessier_ quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-31T21:55:44Z tessier_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:55:48Z attila_lendvai1 quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-31T21:56:24Z Asgeir: It seemed simpler than building an arglist an calling mapcan on it 2014-03-31T21:56:41Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: continuation lost because no existence expected) 2014-03-31T21:57:22Z drewc quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-31T21:57:38Z Xach: Is it possible to put more smarts into building the arglist? 2014-03-31T21:57:46Z Xach: Rather than building it and then filtering it? 2014-03-31T21:57:57Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2014-03-31T21:58:06Z drewc joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:58:42Z Asgeir: oh 2014-03-31T21:58:52Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T21:58:56Z jasom: Asgeir: also, there are lots of CLOS serialization libraries, perhaps you could see how they solved the problem (or just use one of them) 2014-03-31T21:59:15Z askatasuna joined #lisp 2014-03-31T21:59:27Z user3298 quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-31T22:00:26Z Asgeir: I'll take a look, thanks 2014-03-31T22:00:35Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:00:58Z eee-blt joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:02:38Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:02:51Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-31T22:03:24Z drewc1 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:03:26Z diadara quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:03:58Z Vaporatorius quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2014-03-31T22:04:31Z diadara joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:05:10Z spintronic joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:05:27Z zajn joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:05:41Z drewc quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:06:42Z Shinmera quit (Quit: ZzzZZZzZZzZZzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZzzZZZzzzZzZZZzzZzzZZzZZzzZzzzzzzZZZzzZZZzzzzzZZzZZZZzZ) 2014-03-31T22:07:29Z user32981 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:08:17Z tensorpudding quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T22:09:00Z diadara_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:09:02Z drewc1 quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-31T22:09:05Z drewc joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:09:10Z diadara quit (Excess Flood) 2014-03-31T22:10:11Z michael_lee quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T22:10:55Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:11:50Z joast quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:12:08Z keen__ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:12:27Z bocaneri joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:12:54Z bocaneri quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-03-31T22:13:20Z bocaneri joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:13:25Z drewc quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:13:34Z keen_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:13:46Z dim: Xach: Boston ain't that far away, is it? ;-) 2014-03-31T22:14:18Z Xach: dim: it's a different country! 2014-03-31T22:14:27Z dim: hehe 2014-03-31T22:14:43Z Xach: no, really -- http://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures-ebook/dp/B0052RDIZA/ 2014-03-31T22:15:30Z Vivitron quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:16:07Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:16:42Z MjrTom quit (Disconnected by services) 2014-03-31T22:16:42Z MjrTom`-` joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:16:50Z MjrTom`-` is now known as MjrTom 2014-03-31T22:17:19Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:18:06Z dim: maybe I should learn more about the USA before visiting 2014-03-31T22:18:15Z dim: now I feel like another clueless tourist 2014-03-31T22:18:39Z Bicyclidine: it's very important to know which parts of the country have Dunkin Donuts 2014-03-31T22:18:41Z Xach: Don't worry about it, you're not alone. 2014-03-31T22:18:46Z jasom: dim: nobody not from Boston or NYC would say they're in different countries 2014-03-31T22:18:48Z Xach: Welcome and enjoy your stay! 2014-03-31T22:19:03Z dim: hehe 2014-03-31T22:19:10Z gendl quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-31T22:19:35Z Xach: dim: Do you want to meet one of the top SBCL nerds? 2014-03-31T22:19:40Z dim: Paul Khuong sometimes is on IRC right? 2014-03-31T22:19:44Z Xach: sometimes 2014-03-31T22:19:49Z dim: Xach: I'm following him on twitter ;-) 2014-03-31T22:20:02Z Xach: Good good! Make it happen! 2014-03-31T22:20:21Z jasom: dim: Zagreb and Vienna are about as distant, and much more culturally different 2014-03-31T22:20:59Z pkhuong joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:21:07Z eni quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T22:21:29Z dim: jasom: I'd call USA subcultures "subtle", but I think that's only that my understanding of them is not good 2014-03-31T22:21:32Z nyef: pkhuong: You heard your name mentioned, didn't you? 2014-03-31T22:21:35Z Xach: The American Nations book makes a case for separate nations, and defines "nation" vs "country" in a way that I'm not honoring. 2014-03-31T22:21:49Z Xach thinks it's a great book worth reading and will leave it at that 2014-03-31T22:22:10Z dim: nyef: thanks, my local tab-complete didn't work the first time 2014-03-31T22:22:18Z jasom: dim: In the Northeast US, the subcultures can be a lot less subtle, but outside of there, the differences are quite subtle, IMO 2014-03-31T22:22:22Z pkhuong: nyef: dim tweeted at me. Sorry. 2014-03-31T22:22:42Z segv- quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:22:58Z dim: Xach: the thing is that I keep meeting with USA people who think the cultures are quite different, but I don't see it. I should read that book sometimes 2014-03-31T22:23:39Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:24:17Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-03-31T22:24:22Z dstatyvka left #lisp 2014-03-31T22:24:29Z jasom: dim: and the differences are way more subtle now than about 20 years ago. Accents are milder, you can get Sweet Tea just about anywhere; there are towns with both Krispy Kreme and Dunkin Donuts, etc. 2014-03-31T22:25:11Z spintronic quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-31T22:25:32Z [6502] quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-03-31T22:28:07Z dnolen_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:28:11Z drmeister quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T22:28:16Z dnolen_ left #lisp 2014-03-31T22:28:18Z luca joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:28:44Z luca quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-31T22:29:27Z joast joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:29:51Z Sgeo joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:29:59Z zickzackv quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:30:47Z dim: I know neither Krispy Kreme nor Dunkin Donuts, see 2014-03-31T22:30:47Z fortitude quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-31T22:32:06Z jasom: dim: one was founded in the south-east US (colloquially known as "the south"), the other in the northeast US. They both make a type of pastry named "doughnut" but in a very different style 2014-03-31T22:32:50Z Xach is sorry he brought it up 2014-03-31T22:33:02Z snits joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:33:04Z dim: culture is interesting 2014-03-31T22:33:11Z dim: maybe that one is a little off-topic 2014-03-31T22:33:17Z phadthai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:33:28Z dim: but donuts or Lisp history still is interesting culture I guess ;-) 2014-03-31T22:33:48Z Xach: I suppose if you break a donut in half it looks like parentheses 2014-03-31T22:33:50Z phadthai joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:33:57Z Xach: Carry on! 2014-03-31T22:35:06Z dim: donut common lisp! 2014-03-31T22:35:11Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:36:17Z KCL joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:36:18Z dim: anyway, now is beer time, and I'm not convinced about donut&beer ;-) 2014-03-31T22:36:31Z Jayk97 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:40:27Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:41:20Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:41:20Z sohail quit (Changing host) 2014-03-31T22:41:20Z sohail joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:41:29Z harovali: in Slime, the fancy screen grouping of the letters of the prompt, is part of the 'contrib' of Slime , or core code ? 2014-03-31T22:42:25Z Xach: fancy screen grouping? 2014-03-31T22:42:52Z harovali: Xach: that 'implosion' of letters that sometimes it does when activated 2014-03-31T22:42:59Z jasom: Is there a function to convert a list designator to a list? 2014-03-31T22:42:59Z Xach: Ahh. 2014-03-31T22:43:00Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:43:18Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:43:54Z Xach: harovali: that is part of slime-banner 2014-03-31T22:43:59Z Xach: jasom: not built-in 2014-03-31T22:44:21Z jasom: (if (listp foo) foo (list foo)) it is then 2014-03-31T22:44:27Z yelitza joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:44:39Z yelitza quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T22:45:10Z harovali: Xach: thanks 2014-03-31T22:45:21Z H4ns: jasom: alexandria:ensure-list 2014-03-31T22:45:39Z drmeister quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T22:49:15Z ustunozgur quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:54:15Z Jayk97 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T22:57:31Z KCL quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-31T22:57:51Z dkcl quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T23:01:30Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-03-31T23:04:58Z jasom: pjb: is it possible to get a lisp implementation to use your reader implementation for reading, short of setting every single character in the read-table to macro-dispatch to your reader? 2014-03-31T23:06:29Z MjrTom quit (Quit: Planet Earth is blue, and there's nothing I can do) 2014-03-31T23:08:49Z sohail quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-31T23:09:13Z Renee21 joined #lisp 2014-03-31T23:10:00Z drewc joined #lisp 2014-03-31T23:10:13Z Renee21 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-31T23:14:21Z JuanitoJons quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-31T23:14:24Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-31T23:15:48Z pjb: jasom: AFAIK, not without patches to the implementations. 2014-03-31T23:16:21Z pjb: And even, the solution you mention puts everything inside out… 2014-03-31T23:18:53Z jasom: pjb: it Works For Me™ though 2014-03-31T23:21:45Z zygentoma^umzug quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-03-31T23:22:51Z Joreji quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T23:23:39Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2014-03-31T23:23:40Z nyef: Good luck with the whole unicode thing with the readtable, though. 2014-03-31T23:23:49Z jasom: nyef: (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) 2014-03-31T23:23:49Z jasom: (define-foreign-library libfixposix 2014-03-31T23:23:49Z jasom: (t (:default "libfixposix"))) 2014-03-31T23:24:00Z jasom: wow that didn't paste at all what I meant to 2014-03-31T23:24:09Z nyef: Heh. Yeah, I was wondering. 2014-03-31T23:24:10Z jasom: (loop for code from 0 below cl:char-code-limit 2014-03-31T23:24:23Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW) 2014-03-31T23:24:31Z Code_Man` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T23:24:38Z nyef: And with (integer-length char-code-limit) being in the 20s? 2014-03-31T23:24:41Z jasom: nyef: and then a handler-case for implementations where they have invalid char-codes that are below char-code-limit 2014-03-31T23:24:57Z jasom: nyef: it will be a really big readtable, I suppose 2014-03-31T23:25:20Z nyef: Hrm. 21 here. 2014-03-31T23:25:24Z jasom: 21 here 2014-03-31T23:25:25Z pjb: and some implementations use p- or a-list for their readtable! 2014-03-31T23:25:43Z nisstyre joined #lisp 2014-03-31T23:25:52Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp 2014-03-31T23:26:17Z nyef: On SBCL/x86-64, we're looking at on the order of nine megabytes of function pointers alone. 2014-03-31T23:26:33Z nyef: (* char-code-limit sb-vm:n-word-bytes) 2014-03-31T23:27:14Z jasom: nyef: it works on sbcl/x86-64 2014-03-31T23:27:39Z zygentoma quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-31T23:27:50Z jasom: Is there a way to get the size of a readtable on sbcl? 2014-03-31T23:28:23Z e2xistz joined #lisp 2014-03-31T23:28:36Z ircbrowse quit (Changing host) 2014-03-31T23:28:36Z ircbrowse joined #lisp 2014-03-31T23:28:45Z nyef: Not directly, no... 2014-03-31T23:29:06Z e2xistz quit (Changing host) 2014-03-31T23:29:06Z e2xistz joined #lisp 2014-03-31T23:29:50Z e2xistz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-31T23:34:48Z jasom: biggest downside is that every entry into the REPL causes a simple-end-of-file error 2014-03-31T23:38:14Z nilsi_ joined #lisp 2014-03-31T23:39:49Z DataLinkDroid quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-31T23:40:30Z jasom: though that's only in slime; at the command-line it works fine 2014-03-31T23:41:54Z vivalaradio joined #lisp 2014-03-31T23:42:48Z nilsi_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-31T23:43:50Z Asgeir quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-31T23:46:04Z pjb: Now, CLHS specifies things so that batch compilers or things like mocl, or heavy optimizations are possible. But clearly, we'd also like to have a lisp system that is much more modifiable and introspectable. There are big parts of lisp that could be open to user or library modifications. But for that, you'd need an extension of CL, and an implementation specifically designed and specified to allow such modifications. 2014-03-31T23:47:18Z pjb: Eg. if you redefine CL:READ, is it taken into account by CL:COMPILE-FILE and CL:LOAD? CLHS says that an implementation could be that it's not taken into account. A nicely modifiable implementation would specify that this would be taken into account. And so on. 2014-03-31T23:47:39Z jasom: nyef: 90MB is the difference in (room) when I tested 2014-03-31T23:47:46Z pkhuong left #lisp 2014-03-31T23:47:50Z pjb: Notice also that different implementations may use different algorithms, using different functions from CL, and therefore behave differently on such modifications. 2014-03-31T23:47:58Z nyef: Yeah, not entirely surprising. 2014-03-31T23:48:07Z jasom: nyef: it works well enough for what I'm trying 2014-03-31T23:48:11Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-03-31T23:48:17Z pjb: So it would be rather hard to specify a standard for such kind of implementations. 2014-03-31T23:48:38Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-03-31T23:48:39Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-31T23:48:40Z jasom: ony non-portability so far is signaling EOF to compile-file and load 2014-03-31T23:48:47Z arbn quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-31T23:51:28Z Denommus quit (Quit: going home) 2014-03-31T23:57:36Z zRecursive joined #lisp 2014-03-31T23:57:47Z DataLinkDroid joined #lisp