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ZZZzzz] 04:12:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.242.95] has joined #lisp 04:12:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.242.95] has quit [Changing host] 04:12:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:15:20 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:15:26 Bike_ [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 04:16:32 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 04:17:24 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:27 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.232.222] has joined #lisp 04:19:09 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-238-248.w109-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:19:18 Good morning everyone! 04:21:28 beach: morning. 04:21:55 Hello, Robert! 04:22:15 Wow, activity this early! How unusual! :) 04:23:14 Now really, I live in UTC+7. 04:23:18 Not* 04:24:00 Sure, I realize that there are people in many time zones here. 04:26:44 I wish all time zones were cancelled and we all used the same time. That would ultimately solve all humanity problems. 04:27:20 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-160-0-102.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:28:06 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.178.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:32:33 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 04:35:42 -!- fortitude [~fortitude@cpe-74-78-191-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:39:32 Yesterday, I talked about projects that could be massively distributed so that each participant would only have to spend a few minutes per week, and I gave an example. Here is another: Write a correct and precise type for every CL function. 04:40:06 And another: Write an informative docstring for each CL function, variable, etc. 04:40:24 -!- nialo [nialo@c-24-147-120-102.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:40:24 Yeah, I was thinking about that too. 04:40:34 are the types restricted to CL-expressible types? 04:40:36 This last one can use (SETF DOCUMENTATION) so that one would not have to mess with existing source code. 04:40:57 Bike: I would think so. Why? 04:41:24 Bike: On the other hand, you can express a lot that way, given that you have SATISFIES. 04:41:34 just because with quantification you could express a better type for map, etc 04:41:38 well, yeah. 04:41:56 i could do the use-satisfies-as-satisfaction-variables thing :p 04:42:19 The purpose would be to help compilers optimize, so they would have to understand the type. Hence SATISFIES should probably also be avoided. 04:44:04 figured. 04:45:49 zulu_inuoe_ [~quassel@71.47.78.155] has joined #lisp 04:46:33 Here is another: Write a CL language reference without taking material from the CLHS (so that it can be freely used). It would not be aimed at the implementer, but at the user, so there would be fewer implicit references on each "page" than there are in the CLHS. 04:47:37 i'll probably start on the type thing. do you have something to submit to? 04:47:49 I do, yes. 04:47:57 But it might not be concentrated in one place. 04:47:59 Hold on... 04:50:04 Well, I guess at this point you would have to grep for PROCLAIM or DECLAIM and FTYPE in the SICL tree. 04:50:19 haha, alright. 04:51:38 well, i only see one proclaim, and the declaim looks fairly easy to extract 04:51:54 (also the proclaim is an export spec rather than an actual proclamation) 04:51:58 In Code/Types/type-proclamations-to-move.lisp 04:52:05 beach: I once suggested writing something like Google docs but for Lisp, with debugger and stuff. It might be very handy for doing what you suggested. 04:52:08 you will find lots of them. 04:52:42 i don't see such a file in the thing i just pulled... 04:52:59 Bike: Oh? Wait... 04:54:01 Bike: GIT says it is clean and on branch master. 04:54:03 Strange. 04:54:18 i admit i'm no good with git 04:54:43 looks like i'm on 6a6cac7 04:54:47 It's there alright in the tree on GitHub. 04:55:06 maybe this one is old, and downloaded it from cliki forever ago 04:55:11 *I downloaded it 04:55:27 last commit is something about writing MERGE 04:55:31 hitecnologys: Sounds good, but I guess I need to learn about Google docs. 04:56:09 speaking of which, the c-l.net page looks out of date. where's the github? 04:56:16 Bike: I am not good with GIT either. But if you just clone the project and then cd to Code/Types, you should find it. 04:56:31 github/robert-strandh 04:56:58 also the c-l.net source includes '<!--#include virtual="project-name" -->' so i assume something's gone rather wrong there 04:57:15 Bike: The c-l.net project is hopelessly old. 04:57:20 yes indeed. 04:57:21 Sorry, I should have mentioned that. 04:57:46 not your fault, this is something i downloaded back when it wasn't hopelessly old 04:58:19 beach: aha. GD are complicated thing. I tried to start writing something like this but I just don't have enough free time. 04:58:24 ah, there it is. problem solved. 04:58:40 Bike: Whew! :) 04:58:44 ooooh hey, compiler macros. 04:58:56 hitecnologys: Yes, I am reading the Wikipedia page about it now. 04:59:00 well, a compiler macro. 04:59:14 Bike: There should be plenty of compiler macros in there. 04:59:29 in the file called 'compiler-macros' in Code/Types there's just the one for typep. 05:00:14 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:00:15 Bike: I am sorry, it is not yet meant for general consumption, so it seems a bit messy to anyone just looking at it like that. 05:00:18 You're using whatshisname's subtypep, i see 05:00:34 beach: i'm guessing there's a compiler-macros file in each section? that's not too messy. 05:00:43 Yes, indeed. 05:01:18 Bike: But you still probably shouldn't look too closely yet. I gave you the reference to the proclamations because you asked for it :) 05:01:40 Am I right in finding that you haven't written typep yet? 05:01:52 hitecnologys: So you are not suggesting using Google Docs to write the CL documentation, but to create something similar to Google Docs? 05:02:16 Bike: That's probably true. 05:02:37 Bike: but it's not that hard to write. 05:02:39 Am I right in finding you haven't touched this part of the code in a while :) 05:03:09 Bike: Really and truly, you can't trust the names of the directories at this point. 05:03:16 hrmmmmm. 05:03:17 -!- hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:03:33 ...oh my, this typeq thing is not what i thought. 05:03:37 Bike: As I write more code, I realize I need to reorganize. 05:04:03 Bike: TYPEQ is used by the compiler for type inference. 05:04:28 verrrrrry interesting. 05:05:04 beach: I actually suggest writing something like online Lisp IDE with collaborative editing support, but documentation editor is fine too. 05:05:43 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:05:46 hitecnologys: I see. Where would it be stored? What format would you use? 05:06:50 beach: dunno. When I was writing prototype, I just used postgresql database and stored all stuff as plain text. 05:07:01 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:07:17 hitecnologys: What are the arguments against just using Google Docs as it is? 05:07:24 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:07:43 beach: why not? 05:08:02 hitecnologys: As far as I know it would be fine with me. 05:08:16 But since you have given it more thought than I have, I was asking. 05:08:29 beach: for real, Lisp version of it can easily be integrated in Lisp things. 05:08:41 Yeah, there is that. 05:09:01 hm, i don't remember this one 05:09:07 clhs extended function designator 05:09:16 specbot, i need you. 05:09:24 hitecnologys: So there is no API for accessing Google Docs? 05:09:28 -!- s00pcan_ [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:10:19 beach: I never really used it, but there is something like API. 05:10:41 hitecnologys: Thanks for letting me know about it. I might look into it some day. 05:10:55 beach: actually, there is Google Drive API. Docs are now stored in drive. 05:11:16 hitecnologys: Either way, it might be an easy way to get the thing written in the first place. Then if we feel like it later, move it to some CL-specific thing. 05:12:04 beach: so, why the proclaims in the new file? the arguments look constant. 05:12:06 beach: sure. 05:12:40 Bike: As opposed to DECLAIM? Because I was ignorant when I wrote them. 05:12:58 heh, alright. 05:13:19 Bike: Again, if you look for structure and reason at this point, you will be disappointed. Sorry! 05:13:57 seg [~seg@fsf/member/seg] has joined #lisp 05:14:01 -!- igotnolegs [~kevin@63-230-2-231.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 05:14:08 beach: i'm used to reading sbcl source, i have high standards for unstructure. 05:14:24 Bike: Heh, OK. 05:14:36 what functions do you need types for? glancing here you sure have a lot already. 05:14:40 I need to go. Be right back in about 3-4 hours. 05:14:40 Bike: All that will be cleaned up later when I know what it is that I really need. 05:14:44 ah, it peters out around f. 05:14:49 Bike: Yes. 05:14:55 I got tired of it :) 05:15:03 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.232.222] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 05:15:38 saclark [~saclark@c-68-80-105-222.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:01 well i'll go ahead and fill in a few for ya. 05:16:13 Bike: Great! Thanks! 05:16:46 Bike: You should do a grep declaim $(find . -name "*.lisp" -print) 05:17:37 i see. 05:17:52 zeebrah [~zeebrah@unaffiliated/zeebrah] has joined #lisp 05:17:54 Bike: There is more in Environment/type-proclamations.lisp 05:18:05 yes, and in arithmetic. i'll do some other ones. 05:18:09 Yes. 05:18:12 beach: incidentally, any reified environments? 05:18:34 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:18:53 In SICL the global environment is first-class. 05:19:01 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:19:12 but not others? 05:19:16 About local environments, I have not given it any thought yet. 05:19:25 But yes, something will be needed. 05:19:28 hrm, well, i'm a fan. 05:19:56 s00pcan_ [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:58 Bike: It's a complicated issue. The compiler might optimize away variable, and replace others by some combination. 05:22:41 beach: Oh, I know. I'd be pretty much happy with what's in cltl2 environments, though with a better interface. All macroexpansion-type. 05:22:46 Just curious, why is ABCL+swing not considered a mentionable alternative for the oft asked question how to do a GUI in CL? LTK is always the answer and yet it was a ugly hack 6 years ago. Still is from the looks of things.. 05:22:47 -time* 05:23:11 Bike: Oh, you just mean compile-time environments then? 05:23:16 sure. 05:23:23 Bike: Yes, that already exists. 05:23:28 i'm interested in other ones too, bbut compile-time seems like a good place to start. 05:23:33 Bike: But I don't know if its the final interface yet. 05:23:50 beach: including declaration information? 05:23:59 Bike: As I recall yes. 05:24:05 awesome. 05:24:45 Bike: A local environment is just a list of entries. Then there is an interface for putting all that together into an INFO instance. 05:25:16 That INFO instance contains all you need to know about a name, like what it defines, what the type is, etc. 05:25:26 As usual, it is not complete yet. 05:25:37 Guest57740 [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:01 So you can't, for example, get a list of all macros in the current scope? (Not saying this would be a good idea, but I want to see that I understand) 05:26:17 And what about environmental information not connected to a name? 05:26:20 Sorry if I'm asking too early. 05:26:21 Bike: That would be very easy to write. 05:27:00 Bike: Yes, it's a bit early. I can't remember what I did with information not related to names. 05:27:20 alright, no problem. 05:27:37 But, like I said, the local environment is basically just a list of entries in the order of scope, so it can be traversed whatever way you like. 05:28:11 just wondering how much you intend to expose. i'm not sure if getting a list of all macros or whatever is actually a good idea. 05:28:28 Bike: Yes, I see. Sorry, I don't know the answer :( 05:28:45 again, no problem. i'm just glad you're working on this. 05:29:28 Bike: Yeah, well, because if mathrick, I have been working on CLIM3/CLIMatis and Second Climacs instead for the past few weeks. 05:29:38 It is hard to multitask. 05:29:49 i'll see if i can't lighten the load a tad. 05:30:03 Great! Thanks again! 05:30:28 nipra [~nipra@122.177.10.202] has joined #lisp 05:32:04 alezost [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:32:10 I get blamed/praised a lot recently :) 05:32:42 braised, for short 05:33:08 mathrick: Don't worry! :) 05:33:26 Bike: or blaised 05:33:37 mathrick: As a result I have made fantastic progress on CLIM3/CLIMatis and Second Climacs. 05:33:38 less of a pun. rejected. 05:33:55 beach: yeah, I'm not exactly unhappy about it 05:34:37 mathrick: Are you up early, or did you not sleep yet? 05:34:43 up early 05:34:48 I wanted to start playing around with CLIM(2), but I'm barely serviceable on account of toothache :( 05:35:03 Wow. That sound bad. 05:35:42 yeah, I have an appointment for it in 3 weeks, but it suddenly started getting bad and I don't think I'll be able to wait that long 05:35:57 That's a long wait. 05:35:58 -!- Guest57740 [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:57 mathrick: I need to leave the computer for around 20 minutes, but I'll be back in case you have something to tell me later. 05:37:04 ok 05:37:12 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.203.234] has joined #lisp 05:45:53 beach: when you get back you should tell me about this type for null. 05:47:07 -!- seg [~seg@fsf/member/seg] has quit [Quit: adios amigos] 05:50:20 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:06 Sourceless [~Sourceles@milan.cs.york.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 05:55:37 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.10.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:58:03 Bike: OK, what is it? 05:58:23 (or (function (null) (eql t)) (function ((not null)) null)) 05:58:27 i mean, it's wrong, but interestingly so! 05:58:55 How is it wrong? 05:59:32 it says "either (that is, exclusive or) a function that only takes nulls and returns a t, or a function that only takes non-nulls and returns a null" 05:59:41 chaotic_good [~g@23-127-54-186.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:06 Yes, what's wrong with that? 06:00:10 well, i suppose exclusivity is overinterpretation 06:00:16 Because null is neither of those! 06:00:26 *beach* is lost. 06:00:54 Oh, I see what you mean. 06:00:59 Take (function (null) (eql t)) in isolation. A function of that type is undefined on non-null arguments, yes? And NULL is obviously defined on non-null arguments. 06:01:27 Yes, you see. But this is interesting since if the type meant what you thought it meant that would probably help, say, the compiler... 06:01:39 davorb [uid17780@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmlozyytyauvjxeb] has joined #lisp 06:01:41 Yes that was my intention. 06:02:02 That is, I meant my proclamation to be a precise description of what the function does. 06:02:19 right, which would be a pretty nice type, but probably not expressible. 06:02:28 I guess I need to read up on the meaning of OR types when used with FUNCTION. 06:02:32 not even with satisfies, hm... 06:03:12 Bike: Thanks for pointing that out. 06:03:13 beach: it's just like baker says, set union. and the set union of "function undefined on nulls" and "function undefined on non-nulls" is like, function undefined on everything, probably. 06:03:30 Yeah, I get it. 06:04:21 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:04:59 but i'm sure you'd like for there to be some non-magical way for the compiler to understand a type like the one you were thinking of. just kind of neat to consider. 06:05:08 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 06:05:33 Bike: No magic is needed, the compiler *could* interpret it that way :) 06:05:56 i don't think that would be terribly conforming is all 06:06:03 Yes, I get it :) 06:06:14 sorry if i'm hammering this in too much 06:06:24 Bike: No, no. 06:06:28 Don't worry. 06:06:50 i guess essentially what you were thinking of was, rather than or, a kind of definition by cases 06:07:00 Indeed. 06:08:05 minion: memo for hitecnologys: Many moons ago, I started designing a documentation system for which the format was defined as an in-core graph of objects. It would be great for interactive use. I think I might give that a thought again. 06:08:05 Remembered. I'll tell hitecnologys when he/she/it next speaks. 06:13:51 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:14:49 -!- saclark [~saclark@c-68-80-105-222.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saclark] 06:15:40 zeebrah: I'm not sure it's unmentionable. It might be simply the fact that Swing is very little used even in Java world, and with ABCL's tiny mindshare, it's just not something that comes up 06:15:52 plus Swing is annoying to use even in the best of times 06:16:15 Tk at least doesn't spawn threads behind your back 06:16:50 JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:02 -!- JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:23:50 -!- STilda [~kvirc@188.162.167.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:25:35 hm, i think you could have a type of functions that take an optional argument but don't allow that argument to be explicitly provided as null 06:26:41 What would be the purpose? 06:27:05 -!- schoppenhauer [~quassel@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:27:06 matching a function that does that (by having a non-null default value), i guess 06:27:31 Are there any such functions in the CLHS? 06:28:08 i don't know. i realized this because i'm checking your type definitions and apropos says specifically that the optional argument can be a package designator or null. 06:28:25 I see. 06:28:37 it would be kind of non-intuitive to me, that's for sure 06:28:51 JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:28:51 "because this arcane type crap is definitely intuitive" 06:29:00 I think having someone like you scrutinize those type proclamations will mean great progress. 06:29:26 whatare you guys trying to do? 06:30:00 i'm obsessively looking through beach's SICL type declarations on CL functions. 06:30:12 SICL would be the broad "to do", i suppose 06:30:18 chaotic_good: I suggested a project that many people can contribute to: providing precise and accurate type proclamations for all CL functions. 06:30:33 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:30:56 mathrick: right but perhaps it should be mentioned more when the alternative being frequently being proposed is LTK? I've used both to make guis and i wouldn't use ltk again. Having to frequently pour over gross tk code and docs when having to often read the ltk source to get anything done is much more unpleasant than using building with a nicely documented and implemented swing toolkit. It is a matter of opinion of course, I just think it should be 06:30:57 suggested as an alternative... 06:30:59 chaotic_good: It could be done in 10 minutes by 1000 people. :) 06:31:38 schoppenhauer [~quassel@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 06:32:54 lc0dd0cl [~thisismyu@59.105.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 06:33:00 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 06:33:55 zeto28 [~user1@p4FC7587C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:35:47 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 06:36:48 how do I assign to a variable the list of slots for a structure defined with defstruct in SBCL? my google-fu was too weak. TIA. 06:38:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-95.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:41:51 I thought worrying about types distracted from exploratory progrmaming per paul graham. 06:42:12 and one main advnatage of lisp over ml and haskell etc was lakc of that prison? 06:42:21 lists of mixed types etc 06:42:33 yes, CL has optional types that are nice, and important for optimization 06:44:13 zeto28: unsure what exactly you want to achieve and what for 06:46:51 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host53.186-125-103.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:47:00 I want to define some types with "defstruct :include $othertype" and iterate over all slots of such constructed types. 06:47:27 zeto28: might be able to use MOP 06:48:50 I'd rather not use CLOS unless there's really no other way 06:55:01 why? 06:55:18 yeah, why? CLOS is a bit weird at first, but it grows on you. 06:55:23 -!- JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:55:54 JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:01 zeto28: i meant use MOP to interrogate the slots of the struct class, not switching to classes. 06:56:18 Bike: okay, I will look into that 06:57:59 zeto28: do you have the book "practical common lisp"? that one explained CLOS to me in a way that wasn't scary (because CLOS is scary) 06:59:10 fisxoj [~fisxoj@24-212-142-77.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 06:59:14 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@24-212-142-77.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:00 -!- JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:00:15 I used CLOS in the past and it was okay, but defstruct allows me to define types which should yield faster code while being conceptually simpler as well. 07:01:18 zeto28: Sure and on top of that you get really strange semantics when you do interactive development. 07:02:08 zeto28: But I guess it's conceptually simpler to avoid interactive development as well, and just go for batch compilation. 07:03:10 -!- zeebrah [~zeebrah@unaffiliated/zeebrah] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:07:51 copyninja [~kakashi@146.185.137.224] has joined #lisp 07:10:54 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 07:14:20 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:16:31 -!- asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:18:06 beach: do you mean that you get strange semantics with CLOS or defstruct? 07:18:13 defstruct 07:18:19 asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.24] has joined #lisp 07:18:36 It is not defined what happens if you modify the definition of a structure in the presence of existing instances. 07:19:06 All that is defined for subclasses of STANDARD-OBJECT. 07:20:55 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:21:07 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:26:08 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 07:30:32 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:30:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:30:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:33:56 -!- asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:34:42 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40:43 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-9-162.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:49 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:48:18 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 07:52:43 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:53:43 -!- qw3rtman [~qw3rtman@pool-71-252-177-42.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:00:39 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 08:04:07 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 08:05:24 -!- chaotic_good [~g@23-127-54-186.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:05:31 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:08:47 adityarajbhatt [~adityaraj@122.161.224.75] has joined #lisp 08:10:06 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10:22 Has clisp development stopped? The last release was in 2007-7-7 (says so on clisp.org). Whereas sbcl is regularly updated. I just want to make sure. 08:10:56 adityarajbhatt: the webpage says "Current version: 2.49 (2010-07-07)" 08:11:29 davorb: Yes that is what I meant. But how long is the time between successive versions (in general)? 08:12:01 adityarajbhatt: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.clisp.general/13968 08:13:15 "stable", i like the wishful thinking 08:13:21 -!- danielszmulewicz [~daniel@5.144.63.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:13:46 he should work in marketing 08:14:13 adityarajbhatt: i've seen no substantial activity in the repository in the past year 08:14:27 to be fair, the initial release was 26 years ago 08:14:30 and there are significant bugs present in the bug-report 08:14:36 bug-tracker 08:15:02 so, you decide, whether it's "stable" or "dead" 08:15:09 Reading through the thread davorb sent me, someone says new releases are stopped because the _windows_ branch needs work, of all things. 08:15:58 gcl spent years in stasis, is living again. 08:16:06 i decided for me that clisp is not a relevant target anymore (if it ever were) 08:17:06 the clisp-devel mailing list hasn't had any mail sent to it in 2012 or 2013 08:17:10 I am a complete newbie who wants to start lisping. Now trawling on the web (trawling, not trolling), the general consensus seems to be clisp->portability, sbcl->speed. 08:17:23 stassats: clisp is really nice for when you need to ship small binaries 08:17:42 -!- nug700 [~nug700@209-181-103-77.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:18:04 clisp's death would be a bad thing 08:18:18 adityarajbhatt: what platform are you on? generally i would just go between sbcl or ccl. you won't really notice much difference in the beginning until you try to do FFI-stuff. 08:18:24 Linux 08:18:54 danielszmulewicz [~daniel@5.144.63.25] has joined #lisp 08:19:27 adityarajbhatt: sbcl is ported to all relevant nowadays platforms, except for ARM 08:19:37 that's where ccl can pick it up 08:19:40 adityarajbhatt: they're all "good enough". just go with sbcl or ccl (i mostly use ccl) for now. it's not hard at all to switch if you decide that you would want to use another one. 08:19:58 davorb: What was that lisp which ran on JVM? 08:20:04 Clojure or Clozure? 08:20:04 ABCL 08:20:13 Armed Bear Common Lisp. 08:20:19 adityarajbhatt: abcl 08:20:20 Clojure is a wanna-be lisp 08:20:20 Clojure too, I guess :D 08:20:26 protist [~protist@223.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 08:20:36 there is also a bunch of Scheme interpreters and compilers 08:21:20 adityarajbhatt: clozure (ccl) is basically a normal common lisp 08:21:31 clojure is a diff. language 08:21:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:22:23 beach: gettin my git on for ya 08:22:33 adityarajbhatt1 [~adityaraj@122.161.161.76] has joined #lisp 08:22:46 Bike: OK. 08:23:01 -!- zeto28 [~user1@p4FC7587C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 08:23:03 i like the spin that clisp is stable and "Once we have 100% conformance, we can't get 101% conformance." 08:23:08 (that is, sent a pull request) 08:23:53 yet, almost a year has passed since i opened http://sourceforge.net/p/clisp/bugs/653/ and there even hasn't a single comment on it, let alone was it fixed/applied 08:24:20 Bike: You mean you pulled SICL? 08:24:46 -!- adityarajbhatt [~adityaraj@122.161.224.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:24:51 forked and did a pull request, yes 08:24:53 Bike: Oh, I see. I got it. 08:25:00 i'm new to it but it seems to have showed up in your repo 08:25:06 *stassats* thought "gettin my git on" is some sort of euphemism 08:25:32 who could say. 08:25:35 Bike: OK. 08:25:42 Bike: I'll check it out later. 08:25:55 Bike: I am a bit busy right now. 08:25:59 s'cool 08:26:44 adityarajbhatt2 [~adityaraj@122.161.43.86] has joined #lisp 08:28:58 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.227.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:29:07 Anyway CLISP is best CL impl. to build STUMPWM :) 08:29:43 i have more faith in ECL becoming a new small and portable go-to implementation, too bad there's a lull in development right now 08:30:04 adityarajbhatt3 [~adityaraj@122.161.169.124] has joined #lisp 08:30:12 did that stuff with ECL's maintainership get resolved? (or was I imagining it?) 08:30:14 -!- adityarajbhatt1 [~adityaraj@122.161.161.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:30:40 there were assigned new maintainers, but i haven't noticed any results yet 08:31:00 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 08:31:51 -!- adityarajbhatt2 [~adityaraj@122.161.43.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:33:40 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:35:43 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:35:45 i hope the will get more courageous soon and start going through the bug-tracker 08:36:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:38:19 when something in the standard is defined to be an accessor, does that mean there's a (setf foo) function or can it just have a setf expansion? 08:38:36 either 08:39:54 so it's allowed for there not to be a setf function? 08:40:11 Bike: I merged it. Thanks again! 08:40:15 yep 08:40:28 stassats: thanks 08:40:33 there are some requirements for 08:40:35 clhs 5.1.2.5 08:40:35 APPLY Forms as Places: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/05_abe.htm 08:40:50 beach: cool. hopefully i'll be able to help with this thing 08:40:56 which is more easily handled with setf-functions 08:41:08 stassats: yeah that's what made me wonder, since (setf apply) wouldn't be too sensible a function (though apply isn't defined as an "accessor") 08:41:22 Bike: Yes, it's great. In the future I will move your docstrings to a separate place, because they will be subject to internationalization. 08:41:47 alright. 08:42:52 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:43:36 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.203.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:54 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 08:44:56 clhs 5.1.1.2 08:44:56 Setf Expansions: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/05_aab.htm 08:45:04 Bike: see the last paragraph 08:45:25 stassats: that's pretty straightforward, thanks 08:45:52 sbcl has both, for the most part 08:51:49 sellout [~Adium@ip-64-134-220-154.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:51 -!- sellout is now known as Guest56470 08:52:59 -!- adityarajbhatt3 [~adityaraj@122.161.169.124] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 08:53:34 -!- Guest56470 is now known as sellout- 08:54:52 vaporatorius [~vaporator@130.red-80-29-103.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:58 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 09:06:38 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:09:10 optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 09:11:05 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:11:55 alezost` [~user@128-70-200-191.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:14:38 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:17:27 _0Ace [~hs366@94.254.45.76] has joined #lisp 09:23:00 oh, was there an announce for new ECL maintainers? 09:23:00 Fare, memo from dim: https://github.com/qitab/qmynd/issues/1 09:23:43 nenorbot [~ronen@IGLD-84-228-66-76.inter.net.il] has joined #lisp 09:23:48 nostoi [~nostoi@86.Red-81-36-253.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:35 blacklabel [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:40 zeebrah [~zeebrah@unaffiliated/zeebrah] has 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Anywhere.] 11:13:49 Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 11:16:03 Hello. Why doesn't his work? http://paste.lisp.org/display/140325 (and, of course, how can I make it work?) 11:16:03 Kromitvs, memo from pjb: you could implement easily a profiler with cl-stepper. https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/source/2b53ae44e8fa4d040fafcf4d93976500a8e464dc:common-lisp/lisp/stepper-packages.lisp#L146 11:17:13 Kromitvs: You need to make sure B is a special variable. 11:17:38 Kromitvs: By default, variables in CL are lexical just like in most other programmign languages. 11:18:20 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-196.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:18:32 Kromitvs: If you add a line before the others: (defvar b) then it will work. 11:19:05 beach: but since I'm invoking a inside a let, shouldn't it use that lexical environment? 11:19:11 Kromitvs: Now that's bad naming. We prefer giving special variables "ear muffs" so something like *a* would be preferable. 11:19:15 by "special" you mean global? 11:19:21 No, I mean special. 11:19:56 Kromitvs: It does use that LEXICAL environment, but in the function A, B is not in its lexical environment. 11:20:17 Kromitvs: Lexical scope is defined, er, lexically. 11:21:04 Kromitvs: Now if B were special, then it is taken not from the lexical environment, but from the DYNAMIC environment, so it will work. 11:21:26 Kromitvs: Question: do you know any programming language for which your construct will work? 11:21:32 print b lost its parenthesis 11:22:17 that too. 11:22:37 something tells me Kromitvs is not using the right materials to learn lisp 11:22:46 Yeah. 11:22:49 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-153-127.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:23:07 stassats: sorry, I copyed the alpha version of my example 11:24:22 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-153-127.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:24:47 minion: please tell Kromitvs about PCL 11:24:47 Kromitvs: have a look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 11:25:06 Kromitvs: You can read here: file:///mnt/sda1/strandh/Lisp/HyperSpec/HyperSpec/Body/03_abaab.htm about special (also called "dynamic") variables. 11:25:26 only if Kromitvs is using your computer 11:25:34 Ooops! 11:25:36 hehe 11:25:47 clhs 3.1.2.1.1.2 11:25:47 Dynamic Variables: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_abaab.htm 11:26:03 -!- zeebrah [~zeebrah@unaffiliated/zeebrah] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:26:06 I only got to the 6 chapter yet. But learning is a process... 11:26:20 Kromitvs: What other programming languages do you know? 11:26:51 Kromitvs: good, read the 6th chapter completely, it answers your question 11:26:53 c, c++, java... a little of php, VB, python... 11:27:12 Kromitvs: And does your example work in those languages? 11:27:44 beach: it would work in elisp verbatim 11:27:56 except for the lost parenthesis 11:27:59 Yes, but elisp is not in the list. 11:28:07 ahah... well, I always think that thinks that don't in other languages, will wok in lisp... 11:28:21 *don't work 11:28:24 Kromitvs: It will, but only if you make the variable special. 11:28:30 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:29:14 Kromitvs: Otherwise Lisp uses the same concept of lexical variables as other languages. 11:29:37 Ok. I think I got it! Thanks. 11:29:58 Anytime! 11:30:00 By the way "minion" is the boot, and a memo is? 11:30:04 zeebrah [~zeebrah@203.171.126.201.static.rev.eftel.com] has joined #lisp 11:30:12 -!- zeebrah [~zeebrah@203.171.126.201.static.rev.eftel.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:30:13 zeebrah [~zeebrah@unaffiliated/zeebrah] has joined #lisp 11:30:41 Kromitvs: minion is a "bot" (not "boot") and a memo is a short message aimed for a person who is currently absent. 11:30:50 minion: are you in the army? 11:30:50 no 11:31:07 minion: do you have a help command? 11:31:07 here i am, brain the size of a planet, and all i do is answer your silly questions all day... maybe you have time to have a help command 11:31:25 minion: help? 11:31:25 There are multiple help modules. Try ``/msg minion help kind'', where kind is one of: "lookups", "helping others", "adding terms", "aliasing terms", "forgetting", "memos", "avoiding memos", "nicknames", "goodies", "eliza", "advice", "apropos", "acronyms". 11:31:40 minion: thanks! 11:31:40 no problem 11:39:14 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-91-113.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:42:43 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 11:48:40 alezost` [~user@128-70-202-254.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:50:13 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4db42efb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:51:50 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-200-191.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:53:58 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55:07 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:03 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:57:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:59:37 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:40 -!- mood [~mood@D9799655.cm-3-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:01:42 -!- loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:04:11 -!- alezost` is now known as alezost 12:04:26 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:04:30 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 12:05:28 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.232.222] has joined #lisp 12:09:16 loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #lisp 12:09:17 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:23:29 nha [~prefect@koln-4db42efb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:13 munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:31:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:33:21 -!- zeebrah [~zeebrah@unaffiliated/zeebrah] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:39:21 STilda [~kvirc@188.162.167.20] has joined #lisp 12:48:48 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-012-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:10 synacktic [~jordyd@99-177-65-98.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:12 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@99-177-65-98.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:55:12 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 13:05:35 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 13:07:13 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:10:49 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:11:20 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 13:16:26 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9C902.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:22 -!- arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:24:29 luciodue [~luciodue@net-188-153-205-43.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 13:25:49 -!- luciodue [~luciodue@net-188-153-205-43.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Client Quit] 13:28:23 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:49 What is the most sane way to get time with milliseconds? 13:29:49 hitecnologys, memo from beach: Many moons ago, I started designing a documentation system for which the format was defined as an in-core graph of objects. It would be great for interactive use. I think I might give that a thought again. 13:30:35 sb-ext:get-time-of-day 13:30:51 minion: advice on portability 13:30:51 You can't expect automated advice for everything. 13:30:56 minion: advice on portable 13:30:56 #12017: It doesn't need to be portable, it just needs to work on your system. 13:31:43 stassats: I don't need portability but thanks. 13:33:48 beach: sounds pretty cool. Someone definitely should implement something like that. 13:34:33 nialo [~nialo@c-24-147-120-102.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:34 hitecnologys: Yes, I think it is often a mistake to start by considering surface syntax in the form of a sequence of bytes. 13:34:44 stassats: first value is seconds and second is milliseconds, right? 13:35:34 micro 13:36:21 That's even better. 13:37:02 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:08 you can have nano-seconds with clock_gettime(2) 13:38:32 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:38:53 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 13:39:14 -!- nialo [~nialo@c-24-147-120-102.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:40:37 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:02 Does sbcl has binding for it or I need to use CFFI? 13:42:24 it doesn't 13:42:42 I see. 13:43:15 add^_ [~user@m176-70-211-242.cust.tele2.se] has 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-!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:21:32 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:05 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 15:26:09 save-lisp-and-die on windows now can be used :application-type :gui, no more third-party tools to get rid of that pesky console window 15:26:16 used with 15:28:25 playing with print-object and trace... how did I skip that for so long... 15:30:48 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:31:01 stassats: oh wow, that is super awesome. 15:31:20 and it was super easy to do 15:32:43 You mean adding this to sbcl? 15:32:48 yep 15:32:54 I see. 15:33:07 like, 5 lines total, plus passing the argument around 15:33:43 Huh, way easier than having all this weird C wrappers or win API calls. 15:33:59 dim: Those can be fun. One of my favorite trace tricks is a trace-package macro. 15:37:01 is there a save-lisp-and-dont-die? 15:37:05 no 15:38:00 I always wondered, why? 15:38:07 is there a particular reason? 15:38:24 destructive modification of the memory 15:38:41 Vivitron: what would the trace-package macro do? 15:38:58 stassats: what's so destructive in dumping memory? 15:39:20 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:20 dim: turn on tracing for all the functions in a package:) 15:39:21 it's not just dumping memory 15:39:38 yeah but does that need to be a macro? 15:40:03 dim: I suppose it doesn't 15:40:10 ah, ok then ;-) 15:40:25 stassats: what else then? 15:40:25 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 15:41:27 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 15:42:37 dim: it does allow it to have a similar interface to trace, though. e.g. (trace my-fun) and (trace-package my-package) vs (trace-package 'my-package) 15:42:54 ah yeah 15:42:54 hitecnologys: performing destructive modifications allowing the image to start in the right state, obviously 15:43:20 stassats: ah, I see. Like setting entry point and stuff? 15:43:45 you can consult the sources for any more details 15:44:10 -!- s00pcan_ [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:44:32 OK, I'll take a look at it. 15:44:49 hoyang [~hoyang@60.168.88.237] has joined #lisp 15:44:53 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:45:24 by default it also performs a non-conservative GC 15:46:10 Can't all this be performed after dumping memory? 15:46:37 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:22 -!- zeebrah [~zeebrah@unaffiliated/zeebrah] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:55 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:55:48 luciodue [~luciodue@net-188-153-205-43.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 15:55:56 -!- luciodue [~luciodue@net-188-153-205-43.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:56:39 fortitude [~fortitude@cpe-74-78-191-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:59:14 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 16:02:36 michael_lee [~michael_l@219.145.47.251] has joined #lisp 16:04:21 -!- dcxi [~dcxi@32.Red-81-37-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: dcxi] 16:08:04 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:12:20 stassats: so I have a working version of the stream API for qmynd, avoiding completely the mess with filling in arrays before it's necessary etc, but no perfs gain or about ;( 16:12:52 profile-profile 16:13:07 can I profile sub-second threads? 16:13:10 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-71-174-212-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:17 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:36 as long as the total running time is long enough, yes 16:14:16 threads come and go and last for 0.019s to 1.2s 16:15:08 I create new thread for each table to stream in my current coding, and that example has 18 small tables (2 to 16044 lines) 16:20:08 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@219.145.47.251] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:38 michael_lee [~michael_l@219.145.47.251] has joined #lisp 16:25:33 JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:42 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@219.145.47.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:28:05 _0Ace [~hs366@94.254.45.76] has joined #lisp 16:28:22 -!- _0Ace [~hs366@94.254.45.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:21 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:33:55 -!- copyninja [~kakashi@146.185.137.224] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:33:59 sample-interval 0.0001 wasn't a good idea apparently 16:34:12 at 0.001 it was not useful, that said 16:34:39 well, maybe it's time to use an instrumenting profiler 16:35:11 M-x slime-profile-package RET qmynd 16:37:17 took 5 times as much time, which is ok, is there a browser? 16:37:33 no, just slime-profile-report 16:37:42 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:37:48 top is 16:37:48 2.348 | 0.016 | 69,083,552 | 315,317 | 0.000007 | QMYND-IMPL::READ-MY-SEQUENCE 16:37:54 maybe a paste would be preferable 16:38:07 michael_lee [~michael_l@219.145.47.251] has joined #lisp 16:38:11 copyninja [~kakashi@146.185.137.224] has joined #lisp 16:38:14 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC42B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:38:35 http://paste.lisp.org/display/140327 16:39:05 does QMYND-IMPL::READ-MY-BYTE really cons? 16:40:03 http://paste.lisp.org/display/140327#1 16:41:12 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 16:41:23 and maybe-read-next-chunk? 16:41:26 -!- przl [~przlrkt@178.19.216.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:41:58 http://paste.lisp.org/display/140327#2 16:42:40 well I'd better give you the whole file I guess 16:43:19 http://paste.lisp.org/display/140328 16:44:37 does read-wire-packet really have to instantiate 'my-packet-stream? 16:45:02 that was easier to integrate into the existing qmynd code base 16:45:04 and you're better of using structures, not classes 16:45:06 Oddity [~Oddity@154.20.70.67] has joined #lisp 16:45:13 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@154.20.70.67] has quit [Changing host] 16:45:13 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 16:45:32 the class definition did change while I was debuging that code, so... now is a good time to switch I guess ;-) 16:45:43 well kids are bored, I'll be back later in the evening 16:45:47 see you ;-) 16:46:26 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:46:31 I have a problem with RETURN in parenscript. Could someone please explain to me the following warning (which in SBCL prevents compile and load): http://paste.lisp.org/display/140329 ("Returning from unkown block nilBlock") 16:48:05 fiveop: defun establishes a named block, not a block named nil. use (return-from test test) 16:48:19 even in a parenscript context? 16:48:34 that's what it looks like 16:49:12 what has me confused is that the reference manual for parenscript says "RETURN can only be used to return a value from a function - Parenscript has no analogue of Common Lisp's blocks." 16:49:27 wooden [~anon@pdpc/supporter/active/wooden] has joined #lisp 16:49:51 but it works 16:49:52 yes, i see, but "nilBlock" sure seems like something on ps's side 16:49:55 I suppose that's undocumented :) 16:50:02 thanks 16:50:48 well no 16:52:32 what would I use in a lambda? 16:53:30 i dunno, try putting in a block and see what happens? 16:53:47 there are blocks in PS according to the documentation 16:54:12 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has left #lisp 16:54:16 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 16:54:55 http://common-lisp.net/project/parenscript/reference.html#section-control-transfer 16:56:55 -!- JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:06 therik [~therik@164.215.13.231] has joined #lisp 16:57:30 JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:11 zacharias [~aw@p5DDA82D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:00:13 -!- zacharias [~aw@p5DDA82D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 17:00:13 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:02:08 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:09 -!- JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:08:50 przl [~przlrkt@178.19.216.162] has joined #lisp 17:10:30 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 17:12:35 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[Quit: tschüß] 17:41:25 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-020-034.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:42 JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:49:02 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:49:50 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:50:58 -!- JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:11 JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:51 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.198.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:55:59 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC42B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 17:57:28 pjb` [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-225-143.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:57:38 -!- fortitude [~fortitude@cpe-74-78-191-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:52 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-153-127.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:25 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 17:58:48 fortitude [~mts@cpe-74-78-191-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:48 cedr [~cedric@dsl-173-206-65-166.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 18:03:12 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-10-195.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:03:24 -!- munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:04:02 munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:05:22 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 18:06:57 I have a really weird situation in SBCL, where if I write 18:07:06 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-10-195.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit] 18:07:07 (foo a b) 18:07:14 then it completes fine, but 18:07:24 (let ((x (foo a b))) x) 18:07:25 fails 18:07:31 with a stack-overflow 18:08:00 X isn't shadowing anything (other variables do the same thing) 18:08:05 Is x special? 18:08:07 Oh.; 18:08:15 I compile with maximum safety 18:08:39 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-153-127.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:08:48 That sounds pretty suspicious. 18:08:50 nialo- [~yaaic@c-24-147-120-102.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:58 Actually, it's not even about the let, I have a similar problem if I use SETF. wait 18:09:44 you can't expect tail-call optimization if the call is not at the tail position 18:10:19 ahhhhh, yeah, that's probably it 18:10:40 I should have thought about that. Thank you. 18:11:09 Oh, good catch. I had got the impression that this was a top level form. 18:11:24 (Which would have been *very* strange behaviour.) 18:11:37 Yeah :) Sorry I wasn't clear enough 18:13:18 -!- nialo [nialo@c-24-147-120-102.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:17:05 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-020-034.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:18:52 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:03 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:22:41 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:26:01 -!- klltkr is now known as klltkr[JAGS] 18:26:26 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:26:56 is zach here ? 18:27:28 TDog [~chatzilla@75-164-15-83.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:57 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 18:33:15 -!- nenorbot [~ronen@IGLD-84-228-66-76.inter.net.il] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:33:38 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9C902.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:37:15 optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:45:20 l` [~Ni50M50@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 18:48:31 -!- przl [~przlrkt@178.19.216.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:51:06 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:52:23 qw3rtman_ [~qw3rtman@pool-71-252-177-42.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:09 -!- cedr [~cedric@dsl-173-206-65-166.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:53:45 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:54:00 -!- qw3rtman [~qw3rtman@pool-71-252-177-42.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:55:00 -!- round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:55:28 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-91-113.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:55:32 alexherb1 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-91-113.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:56:52 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@c-24-147-120-102.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:10 which website should i follow to keep up to date with asd ? 19:04:09 asdf ? 19:04:55 (quick-update) 19:05:06 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:05:29 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/quicklisp/DVMR82RQHYQ/PJY0H1lyrD8J 19:05:56 zophy: so http://beta.quicklisp.org/ would be the website. 19:06:06 followme [~shauakat_@WimaxUser39131-82.wateen.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:05 -!- qw3rtman_ [~qw3rtman@pool-71-252-177-42.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:07:55 -!- followme [~shauakat_@WimaxUser39131-82.wateen.net] has left #lisp 19:08:41 pjb`, tankers fer the newz 19:09:55 but i dunno if quicklisp is up to date with asdf 19:09:57 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:10:11 fare 19:10:20 that's the man i'm looking for 19:10:38 i was trying to recall his nick 19:11:45 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:15 nug700 [~nug700@209-181-103-77.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:21 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:12:43 https://github.com/fare/asdf 19:13:26 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@219.145.47.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:13:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:13:55 -!- sellout- [~Adium@ip-64-134-220-154.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:15:23 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 19:15:57 -!- l` is now known as l_ 19:16:43 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:17:38 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:18:28 -!- mood [~mood@146.185.164.46] has quit [Quit: Gone.] 19:19:09 mood [~mood@146.185.164.46] has joined #lisp 19:19:33 quicklisp updates asdf if it's too old. 19:19:35 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-82-201.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:38 -!- pjb` [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-225-143.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:54 -!- rk[bike] is now known as ryankarason 19:20:24 pjb [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-225-143.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:20:45 -!- pjb is now known as Guest52466 19:29:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:20 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:30:23 davazp [~user@12.Red-83-55-79.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:32:07 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-168-235-116.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:33:45 -!- Guest52466 [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-225-143.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:30 -!- l_ [~Ni50M50@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 19:35:08 jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-104.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:37:25 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-238-248.w109-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:37:55 round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 19:38:18 -!- round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Client Quit] 19:38:28 fp0 [~davebelan@S0106b8a386573a5e.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:53 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 19:40:30 -!- fp0 [~davebelan@S0106b8a386573a5e.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:40 pjb` [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-225-143.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:42:47 -!- pjb` [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-225-143.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:51 pjb` [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-225-143.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:47:14 clhs defstruct 19:47:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defstr.htm 19:49:42 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:17 -!- alexherb1 is now known as alex` 19:54:01 ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has joined #lisp 19:54:29 dcxi [~dcxi@32.Red-81-37-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:07 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 19:57:32 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 19:58:27 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFFA8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:59:32 ASau [~user@p54AFFA8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:00:08 -!- davazp [~user@12.Red-83-55-79.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:28 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFFA8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:09 ASau [~user@p54AFFA8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:02:20 dioxirane [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 20:02:30 fp0 [~davebelan@S0106b8a386573a5e.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:45 "Why doesn't a defmacro form just gensym ,'d symbols automagically, with sane rules? Isn't variable capture ALWAYS bad?" 20:04:06 I was pondering this for a while, and then I discovered anaphoric macros. 20:04:17 ...I feel like I could cut myself with these. Badly. 20:05:42 *kristof* gently puts Let Over Lambda down and washes hands. 20:05:57 defstruct vs defclass didn't offer much here, stassats 20:06:01 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:06:13 it wouldn't offer much, but it is better 20:06:21 fair enough then ;-) 20:06:41 why were you surprised that read-my-byte and read-my-sequence would cons? 20:06:51 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:04 i was surprised that READ-MY-BYTE would cons 20:07:24 I take it that read-byte itself doesn't? 20:07:49 nope 20:08:04 kristof: don't forget about aif ... and how about passing a symbol to be used, eg. for dotimes? 20:08:23 is the consing in the report cumulative (as in, counting the consing done in function called from the one reported)? 20:08:39 flip214: Yes, I'm noticing that anaphoric macros are actually all over the place and do really useful things. 20:09:07 dim: yes 20:09:23 statistical profiling would really be better 20:09:36 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-157-59.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:09:48 kristof: I have to admit, the number of macros using macros in Let Over Lambda is ... high. 20:09:48 so it consed 51,427,984 - 47,714,416 20:10:04 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFFA8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: restart] 20:10:37 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-95.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:38 and, of course, there are more ways to do objects .... but it opens the eyes for new ways to look at things, doesn't it? 20:10:50 kristof: doing it automatically takes the control away from the user for very little gain 20:11:01 (even in absence of anaphoric macros) 20:11:16 are you trying to reinvent hygienic macros? 20:11:19 ASau [~user@p54AFFA8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:11:19 -!- dioxirane [~l@84.233.246.170] has quit [] 20:11:25 kristof: for an alternative, "with-gensyms" from Practical Common Lisp, is nice 20:11:44 normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:47 that's also in alexandria, along with flatten, and a few others. 20:12:06 dim: %read-peek shouldn't cons at all according to that definition, but not according to the report 20:12:06 -!- fortitude [~mts@cpe-74-78-191-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:35 yeah I'm trying to understand that, and I'm new to considering cons'ing in CL... 20:12:35 ah, of course, you have multiple threads, the consing is counted for all threads 20:12:36 heh, I should take a look at Alexandria instead of reinventing stuff every other project 20:13:06 better get the statistical profiler working with some synthetic data 20:14:09 dcxi: Right, it just seemed like boilerplate to have to write "with-gensyms" for every macro out there 20:14:14 how much can I trust current reports? they seem to indicate efforts should go into read-my-sequence and read-my-byte, then read-fixed-length-string and parse-text-protocol-result-column-as-text 20:14:33 consing, can't trust at all 20:14:34 abeaumont [~abeaumont@77.231.216.66] has joined #lisp 20:14:41 timings? 20:14:43 for that you need to have a single thread running 20:14:46 timings are better 20:14:59 i think i've seen a version of defmacro that includes symbols to gensymate, but it ain't popular 20:15:02 kristof: then use the solution of LoL, and do defmacro/g .... 20:15:22 Bike: defmacro/g and defmacro!, perhaps? 20:15:25 dcxi: I've discussed in here before that it would be nice to be able to do things like (defmacro name ($arg1 $arg2 $arg3 arg4 arg 5 . . .) (body consisting of args)), where you just use the $ symbol once and it tells the compiler to gensym that 20:15:34 but there are problems with scope I think 20:16:00 dim: add (declare (type (unsigned-byte 8) byte-1 byte-2 byte-3)) to %read-3-bytes 20:16:06 kristof: that's nearly _exactly_ what LoL describes. How about putting defmacro! from there into alexandria? 20:16:07 when I disable the read-my-sequence optimisation I get better results ;-) 20:16:30 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:17:16 flip214: Wow! Neat :) It's not my choice to put anything in alexandria obviously, but it seems like that would be a great place to put it 20:17:23 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 20:17:51 just do a pull request, and ask for inclusion. 20:17:57 please, no defmacro/g in alexandria 20:18:00 declaring types for the struct slots too 20:18:36 nothing from let over lambda seems to have a good chance to end up in alexandria :D 20:18:43 stassats: What's wrong with it? 20:18:48 everything 20:18:51 kristof: it lacks taste. 20:18:56 oh. :/ 20:19:15 LoL has a lot of magic symbol stuff (like the $ thing) i can't say i'd want 20:19:51 Bike: Well you'd know when you're doing "magic symbol stuff" because you wouldn't be using defmacro, you'd be using defmacro/g! 20:20:22 Oh, but that's not obvious to someone who's using one of your macros... hrm. 20:20:25 kristof: if I were to choose, it would probably look similar to: (defsomeclevername name (parameter...) (gensymed...) body) 20:20:41 yeah, dcxi's is more what i was thinking of, not that i'd really use that either 20:20:49 Ah, alright 20:20:58 Clojure has something similar with a comment macro 20:21:09 you shouldn't be writing that many macros to make gensym uncomfortable 20:21:20 if you have problems with macro hygiene, you probably should not use macros in the first place. 20:21:36 both of those comments are true :) 20:21:56 I think Doug Hoyte fancies himself a macro ninja. 20:22:26 I usually use a let to make my gensyms anyway so I can add a nice string descriptor to it. 20:22:42 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:49 Shinmera: Why not just a comment off to the side? 20:23:00 Or am I misinterpreting what "string descriptor" means 20:23:15 with string descriptor I mean (gensym "Description") 20:23:22 Because I see that in the macroexpands. 20:23:25 Making it easier to read 20:23:28 Oooooh, alright 20:24:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-104.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:24:08 Shinmera: with-gensyms usually uses symbol-names 20:25:03 stassats: ah, good to know! I never used with-gensyms really, so I didn't know. 20:25:59 (with-gensyms (foo) ...) => (let ((foo (gensym "FOO"))) ...), it's really pretty simle 20:26:08 stassats: do you know if read-sequence is going to be much faster than a read-byte loop over a usocket:socket-stream stream? 20:26:25 for a large amount of bytes, yes, read-sequence can be quite faster 20:27:23 how large is large? 20:27:32 you would have to measure that 20:27:47 yeah, and it will vary a lot between my test system and anything else 20:28:33 I think my read-sequence optimisation is counter productive in the general case (small sequences), because the test to enable it costs more than just looping over read-bytes 20:28:35 Bike: I usually use different names for the gensym variable and the description, but yes. 20:28:45 typical length here would be < 256 20:28:51 like way smaller than that 20:29:40 Shinmera: (with-gensyms ((foo "description")) ...) => (let ((foo (gensym "description"))) ...) 20:30:06 Shinmera: (not trying to say you need to use it, just saying it does that.) 20:30:17 Bike: I expected as much :) 20:34:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:37:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:37:46 -!- STilda [~kvirc@188.162.167.20] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:09 Scott Fahlman invented the smiley face? 20:40:24 I guess someone had to 20:40:31 *dim* doesn't know who that guy is 20:40:31 That's so... 20:40:48 I don't know what to feel about that 20:41:15 "nothing"? 20:41:27 dim: CMUCL, Dylan, "de facto leader" of the Common Lisp standardization effort, (one) founder of the company that wrote xemacs... 20:41:43 oh. 20:41:49 H4ns: Yeah but that feels disengenuous considering how much I like smiley-faces :P 20:41:58 i hate smiley faces 20:43:09 is there a smiley face for expressing hatred? 20:43:34 unsmiley 20:44:52 https://www.google.com/search?q=unsmiley&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=r5-bUsCNFY_aoASbmYKQBw&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=911&bih=406 20:45:18 dim: oh, it uses gray streams for compressed communications 20:45:24 that might explain some things 20:45:33 yeah I'm currently looking at that 20:46:05 and it's building the payload anyways (sequence of bytes) for each chunk received, before to uncompress it in memory 20:46:15 -!- logand [~user@e178254099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:30 logand [~user@e178254099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:46:41 I'm searching when it switches to the compressed protocol etc 20:47:37 -!- uzo [c6fce60f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.252.230.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:47:52 well, if you thrown everything away and written it from scratch, you would have been done by now 20:48:20 I'm not sure about that, I didn't spend that much time on it 20:48:28 10 hours maybe 20:48:42 should be enough 20:48:43 and the complexity for me here is the whole protocol handling 20:50:32 why can't I recompile qmynd on the fly now? QMYND-IMPL::MYSQL-COMPRESSED-STREAM-STREAM already names an ordinary function or a macro. 20:50:56 I didn't edit that parts of the code and it used to be able to reload/recompile it just fine 20:50:57 that's after profiling 20:51:09 oh. 20:51:18 it's a bug, it's easy to fix, i'm lazy 20:51:34 I need to restart SBCL so often now! 20:51:44 stassats: >:-[ 20:52:32 stassats: now you've summoned him! 20:54:34 ok I win almost 2s (5s down to 3s) by disabling compression 20:55:26 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:55:28 of course it could be that it's just badly done, or that in some cases with very large per-column values compression would be a win 20:56:05 compression should be a connection option rather than enabled as soon as the support for it is there: (defun have-compression () (and (find-package "CHIPZ") (find-package "SALZA2"))) 20:56:21 for local connections, unlikely 20:56:25 so 3s against 2.5s with cl-mysql 20:57:29 -!- JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:51 stassats: my reading is that enabling compression in qmynd is trashing any efforts I made because of the way it eagerly loads the chunks in memory... I don't know if not doing so would be possible 20:58:06 JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:09 chipz is probably not the fastest thing either 20:58:14 and salza2 21:01:55 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9C902.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:02:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:42 -!- JKaye [~jordan@c-174-59-197-213.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:02:45 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:39 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 21:07:18 patbarron [~pat@lectroid.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:38 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:45 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:10:17 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 21:10:26 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 21:10:43 how do you remove a flag in a integer encoded mask? 21:10:58 each time I need to do that it's back to struggling, seems I can't remember. 21:11:13 the values are mixed together with logior 21:11:17 (setf (ldb (byte 1 10) integer) 0) 21:11:29 I want to remove #x20 only if it's been added 21:12:14 (logxor x #x20) 21:12:57 will it not add it if it's not already there? 21:13:40 it will 21:14:18 that's not what I want then, I started from there 21:15:14 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:15:24 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has left #lisp 21:17:12 (logandc2 x #x20) 21:18:29 sellout [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:38 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 21:19:38 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:20:37 thx 21:21:16 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:57 davazp [~user@12.Red-83-55-79.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:11 I now have to wonder about the stream API performances compared to the payload bounding indices perfs, but I weren't careful enough to get the code nearby 21:35:22 kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has joined #lisp 21:35:28 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:35 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:52 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.76.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:41:45 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:43:17 is it meaningful to declaim inline a defgeneric? 21:43:35 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 21:43:52 I think I'm looking for something else... 21:44:29 maybe like a defsubst in elisp 21:45:25 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:47:02 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:47:27 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:21 trying with a define-compiler-macro 21:48:25 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:57 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 21:52:03 -!- patbarron [~pat@lectroid.com] has quit [Quit: Exiting HexChat] 21:52:35 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:55:26 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:56:00 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.76.236] has joined #lisp 21:57:46 -!- davazp [~user@12.Red-83-55-79.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:02 davazp [~user@12.Red-83-55-79.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:04 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.129.108.51] has joined #lisp 22:00:43 wow, a run in 2.697s 22:00:52 that's about the same as the cl-mysql perfs now ;-) 22:01:40 it averages to being more, but the variance is quite considerable on such a short test, will have to test with that other data set (3GB) 22:05:28 ASau` [~user@p54AFFA8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:07:02 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:42 ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has joined #lisp 22:07:49 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 22:08:13 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 22:08:31 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFFA8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:08:44 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 22:10:03 Hy. When I print some variables in CLIPS I get a #S before each list. What does this mean and where can I find information about this sort of "strange" symbols (like the ones that appear in backtrack)? 22:10:51 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Client Quit] 22:11:11 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 22:11:20 dim: cool! what are you doing? (sorry, i just joined and missed everything before your "2.697s" comment) 22:11:25 clhs #s 22:11:25 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhm.htm 22:11:33 Kromitvs: 22:11:37 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Client Quit] 22:12:01 DataLinkDroid: optimising a MySQL driver so that pgloader can use it for its fully automated migration mode (MySQL --> PostgreSQL) 22:12:08 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@75-164-15-83.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:12:15 Kromitvs: if you're using slime you can do hyperspec-lookup-reader-macro. 22:12:21 minion: memo to Fare: https://github.com/qitab/qmynd/pull/2 22:12:22 Remembered. I'll tell Fare when he/she/it next speaks. 22:13:39 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 22:13:41 -!- normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [] 22:14:02 ah, so you are Dimitri. I read your fixed width data import article recently :) 22:14:22 hehe, here I am, benefitting from lots of wisdom in #lisp 22:14:43 Bike: Thanks! 22:16:15 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:21 dim: so you are working on a tool to migrate arbitrary mssql databases to postgresql? 22:16:27 mysql* 22:16:54 indeed 22:17:05 have a read at http://tapoueh.org/blog/2013/11/12-migrating-sakila 22:17:44 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:18:20 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:22:40 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:27:57 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:29:12 dim: nice. looks like it makes things pretty easy if you don't have too many triggers, stored procs or views defined 22:29:22 exactly 22:29:55 it could be possible to automatically migrate like 80% of triggers and stored procs and views, but that needs a full MySQL SQL parser that knows how to spit out PostgreSQL code instead 22:30:12 don't hold your breath on that one, unless you're willing to sponsor the effort 22:30:14 yep 22:30:20 not an easy problem i imagine 22:30:26 (my current sponsors aren't interested at the moment) 22:31:05 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE6445B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:32:29 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:35:20 -!- blacklabel [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:30 blacklabel [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:59 -!- strobegen [~Adium@188.168.72.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:40:51 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-153-127.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:33 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-150-233.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:43:57 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[oiutNaboot] 22:44:16 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-202-254.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:48:18 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f68968.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:59:56 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:00:27 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:03:04 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:04:20 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE6445B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:10:39 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:14:34 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 23:16:20 -!- schoppenhauer [~quassel@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. 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05:45:12 kristof: "destructive", iirc 05:45:13 ndestructive 05:45:30 -!- qw3rtman_ [~qw3rtman@pool-71-252-177-42.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:45:37 peter seibel says "Non-consing" 05:45:56 Ah, I must have missed that part 05:46:11 thanks H4ns 05:52:01 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:52:20 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:02 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 05:54:51 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:58:18 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-150-233.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:01:12 qw3rtman [~qw3rtman@pool-71-252-177-42.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:12 logand` [~user@g225071094.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 06:08:02 -!- qw3rtman [~qw3rtman@pool-71-252-177-42.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:08:29 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 06:10:00 -!- logand [~user@e178254099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:10:27 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 06:15:11 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:15:25 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:15:41 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 06:20:12 ImoNee [~imonee@cpe-72-225-238-194.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:23:39 optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 06:27:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-95.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:28:07 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:31:44 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-wrlvbohclgpqguuw] has joined #lisp 06:32:07 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:35:37 oxum [~oxum@122.164.175.145] has joined #lisp 06:36:22 -!- ImoNee [~imonee@cpe-72-225-238-194.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 06:36:54 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:47:33 -!- RenRenJuan [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:49:05 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 06:49:18 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:55:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:56:16 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 06:56:49 -!- Sgeo_ is now known as AntiVariousPro 06:57:58 -!- AntiVariousPro is now known as AntiVariousProte 06:58:45 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:59:26 -!- trof [~trof@93.85.136.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:59:40 trof [~trof@86.57.185.113] has joined #lisp 07:00:07 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@198.255.198.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:38 zeebrah [~zeebrah@unaffiliated/zeebrah] has joined #lisp 07:00:47 prxq [~mommer@x2f65761.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 07:04:06 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.195.213] has left #lisp 07:08:46 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@120.199.210.235] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 07:08:48 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:11:22 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 07:15:50 Hi. I have a loop that prints output to repl. I started it from repl. It appears to be infinite by my mistake. How can I interrupt its execution? 07:16:15 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:17:06 STilda: if in Slime, C-c C-c 07:21:24 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-27.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:25:43 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:25:43 samskulls: ah, thanks, it works (with quite big delay). It reacts after repl is done with printing everything it was asked to before I pressed C-c C-c. 07:25:51 -!- xenophon [~user@64.124.65.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26:03 xenophon [~user@64.124.65.162] has joined #lisp 07:26:40 minion: memo for beach: in Code/Environment/environment.lisp you mention not understanding the use of the environment argument to compiler-macro-function. the answer is that local functions and macros shadow compiler macro definitions. also if there's a better way for me to say things like this that would be good 07:26:40 Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks. 07:26:49 Slime (and maybe Emacs generally) gets REAL SLOW if there are too many lines in the buffer. In slime C-c C-o clears the buffer, and you'll find it more responsive. 07:27:01 *C-c M-o 07:29:11 samskulls: Tell me about it. A few weeks of ERC will do that too 07:30:00 good, thanks, I guess there should be an option to limit the history length of repl? 07:30:05 will emacs ever be fixed? i find it not being up to par with the amount of data that i want to deal with in my editor nowadays. 07:30:08 przl [~przlrkt@p57922A4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:30:27 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:30:31 STilda: it's definitely possible. I personally use a timer. 07:31:59 samskulls: What is your approach with timer? 07:32:01 STilda: There are better ways to do it, but... C-s fuck-off-slime-output https://github.com/SamSkulls/dotfiles/blob/master/emacs 07:33:18 )) nice name, thank you, will look at ti 07:34:54 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 07:34:55 jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-104.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:35:53 Ayey_ [~rune1@195.254.169.69] has joined #lisp 07:36:16 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36:52 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:38:14 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:25 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.66.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:41:02 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:41:20 kdas__ [~kdas@114.143.161.255] has joined #lisp 07:43:19 -!- logand` [~user@g225071094.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:43:42 logand` [~user@g225071094.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:43:58 stardiviner [~numbchild@120.199.210.235] has joined #lisp 07:44:39 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 07:45:09 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:45:20 -!- kdas__ is now known as kushal 07:45:30 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.255] has quit [Changing host] 07:45:30 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 07:46:11 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.198.191] has joined #lisp 07:48:19 logand [~user@g225071094.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:54:16 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-scbirrggrnksdkct] has joined #lisp 08:02:53 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57922A4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:09:05 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:11:34 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-71-174-212-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 08:12:07 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 08:14:31 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:16:15 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:16:51 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:19:19 -!- zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 08:20:04 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21:30 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 08:22:25 Anaphoric macros are cool. 08:22:30 (asubseq (list 'a 'b 'c 'd) 1 (1- (length it))) 08:23:05 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-35-71-186.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:28:33 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:29:15 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 08:30:25 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Quit: tschüß] 08:34:07 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:34:47 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:34:50 i've always wanted to program matlab in lisp 08:35:02 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 08:35:20 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 08:46:12 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@113.139.51.73] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:46:25 |JRG| [c209f2f5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.9.242.245] has joined #lisp 08:47:33 nenorbot [~ronen@IGLD-84-228-66-76.inter.net.il] has joined #lisp 08:47:56 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:49:18 pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has joined #lisp 08:51:00 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-sypgfxnhwqevykci] has joined #lisp 08:58:44 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-ypeqdtrgpoozowxp] has joined #lisp 09:03:33 Bike: Maxima? 09:04:11 it was an attempt at a joke, since matlab lets you use 'end' to mean '(length it)' there 09:05:14 why not have (fancy-subseq sequence 1 -1) 09:06:58 samskulls: looks like another interesting thing will be to be able to refer to neighbouring forms. Like (func (list 1 2 3) (length prev-form) (+ 2 next-form) 3) == (func (list 1 2 3) 3 5). 09:06:59 tatsushiko [~user@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 09:07:19 -!- tatsushiko [~user@188.165.96.106] has left #lisp 09:07:31 tatsushiko [~user@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 09:07:59 next-form will break evaluation rules 09:08:22 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:08:29 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 09:09:32 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 09:12:18 stassats: in the case that provoked me to think of asubseq, I needed to do (round (length it) 2). Unless I'm having a brainfart, fancy-subseq wouldn't help me there. 09:12:57 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 09:13:06 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:13:10 if only somebody thought of an operator to introduce variables 09:13:35 michael_lee [~michael_l@113.139.51.73] has joined #lisp 09:15:12 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:15:18 -!- nenorbot [~ronen@IGLD-84-228-66-76.inter.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:15:36 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 09:16:15 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-vybwlkuonqriecwy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:17:24 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17:44 i know i asked a similar question before, but is there a way to get slime to macroexpand something /once/ within a macrolet? 09:17:51 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:18:23 nope 09:18:31 damn. 09:23:03 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:23:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:24:04 -!- CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 09:25:53 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 09:25:55 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 09:27:15 http://common-lisp.net/project/closure/ 09:27:20 whatever happened to this? 09:28:03 deadghost: Some great XML-based tools happened 09:28:07 cxml 09:28:08 -!- KingNato [~isildur@c-e9eee253.012-31-73746f43.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:09 xpath 09:28:12 closure-html 09:28:14 KingNato [~isildur@c-e9eee253.012-31-73746f43.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:28:32 -!- GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@mlir.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:29:35 deadghost: I guess the maintainers lost interest. I tried building it a few years ago, but got nowhere. 09:30:20 GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@mlir.info] has joined #lisp 09:30:43 I'm not sure how a browser written in CL would deal with Javascript. 09:32:03 how does a browser written in C++? 09:32:04 -!- tatsushiko [~user@188.165.96.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:14 nowadays you can use webkit from cl, using commonqt and qtwebkit 09:32:23 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:32:24 ooh, that's right! 09:32:41 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:32:44 actually, this is doubly funny since the original javascript implementation was in CL. It's still somewhere in the mozilla repository. 09:33:01 tatsushiko [~user@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 09:33:05 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:33:59 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 09:34:08 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 09:34:48 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.207.143] has joined #lisp 09:35:07 Isn 09:35:16 Isn't there a Javascript implementation in CL in QL? 09:35:41 I know there's parenscript, which compiles CL->JS 09:35:58 CL-JS 09:36:04 it's in QL, seems to work 09:36:09 Compiles JS->CL 09:36:44 Oh my. I had been under the impression cl-js was another cl->js compiler. 09:37:33 samebchase: Nope. It's a full JS. 09:38:03 This is a pleasant surprise. 09:41:04 so, are the components of closure browser still maintained by someone? 09:41:09 cxml and what not 09:41:23 not really 09:41:38 deadghost: Supposedly, but they haven't changed much in recent years. I have a patch to colusre-html I'd like to get in mainline, but no one replied to my post on th emailinglist 09:42:00 -!- tatsushiko [~user@188.165.96.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:19 AntiSpamMeta2 [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 09:43:19 -!- AntiSpamMeta is now known as Guest5708 09:43:19 -!- Guest5708 [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Killed (cameron.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 09:43:19 -!- AntiSpamMeta2 is now known as AntiSpamMeta 09:43:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-27.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44:14 http://common-lisp.net/project/closure/ 09:44:21 listed mailing lists I see here are dead links 09:44:39 that's cl.net migration for you 09:44:51 it has only been 9 months, you can't expect it to get fixed that fast 09:45:21 closure is basically a dead project anyway 09:45:27 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@227-191.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:45:54 I'm more interested in the components 09:45:59 since if it's dead 09:46:04 I might want to use something else 09:46:08 tatsushiko [~user@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 09:46:15 -!- zophy [~sy@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:46:20 it was never alive 09:46:27 cxml is very usable, and i've also had good success with chtml 09:46:28 H4ns: "basically" or "completely"? 09:46:43 loke: as a project, it does not exist and is completely dead 09:46:50 I love chtml, but there is this one patch I need to have put in... 09:46:58 loke: pjb would differ, of course. 09:46:59 -!- ggole [~ggole@58-7-103-38.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:47:05 H4ns: Ah, not closure as a whole, but the components. 09:47:30 I'm not sure how well it plays with html5 09:47:36 it looks like it skips over section tags 09:47:55 there is a different html5 parser whose name slips me right now 09:48:02 it works well for html5 and is in quicklisp 09:48:28 H4ns: cl-html5-parser? 09:48:34 right 09:48:56 what an elusive name 09:50:32 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-226.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:54:44 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 09:57:14 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:58:24 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:59:02 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-146-195.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:59:48 ggole [~ggole@220-253-144-63.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:00:53 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:01:03 so, chunk pre-fetching seems to be a wash in terms of perfs in my tests here, but makes parts of the code cleaner, I might as well go for it 10:04:11 now read-my-sequence is doing (replace sequence (my-payload stream) :start2 (my-pos stream)) to copy prefetched data into an already allocated sequence... 10:06:17 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 10:06:23 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.207.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:07:33 and a loop doing (setf (aref ...) one byte at a time seems to be faster 10:08:10 you need high SPEED to get replace inlined 10:08:35 harish [~harish@124.197.69.99] has joined #lisp 10:08:36 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:58 well I want to be able to process high GB of data, TB of data maybe 10:12:47 creating a thread for each row would be a bad idea then 10:12:47 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 10:13:25 or was it for each table 10:13:26 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:13:41 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 10:16:08 table 10:16:47 and is the stream shared? 10:16:56 so that it's possible later to COPY data for several table in parallel 10:16:56 railly [~lilin@211.142.247.92] has joined #lisp 10:17:13 the stream contains data from a single table (SQL query resultset) 10:18:39 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:19:49 is the cost of replace a function of the length of the sequence? 10:20:00 my current test case might only be exercizing smaller sequences... 10:20:04 of course 10:20:28 the benefit is that properly inlined and declared it will copy 8 (or 4) bytes at a time 10:23:40 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFFA8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:28:38 -!- zeebrah [~zeebrah@unaffiliated/zeebrah] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:39:02 -!- Ayey_ [~rune1@195.254.169.69] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 10:41:21 -!- stardiviner [~numbchild@120.199.210.235] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:42:24 both sequences are declared as (simple-array (unsigned-byte 8) (*)) 10:43:11 nenorbot [~ronen@IGLD-84-228-66-76.inter.net.il] has joined #lisp 10:44:08 ASau [~user@p54AFFA8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined 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[~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 11:16:07 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.114.139] has joined #lisp 11:19:08 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:20:34 hi 11:27:17 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:21 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Quit: tschüß] 11:30:32 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:35:47 stassats: so I'm now prefetching the first chunk of a packet, as you proposed initially IIRC, it seems to be mostly a wash for raw performances here but allows to simplify code and I have less noise in my perf measures too 11:35:58 I think I'm now done with the whole experiment 11:36:22 I coulnd't beat cl-mysql unfortunately 11:39:00 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 11:41:59 Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-etx-mapped-0014.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 11:44:51 -!- jtza8 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[~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 14:44:16 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 14:49:03 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-186-103.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:10 samskulls: yes, but: (defun rest-of-sequence (it) (subseq it 1 (1- (length it)))) (rest-of-sequence (list 'a 'b 'c 'd)) seems more useful and readable. 14:53:05 pjb: why not to write (subseq foo 1) instead of (subseq foo 1 (1- (length foo)))? 14:54:11 it's not the same, for starters 14:54:22 What's the difference then? 14:54:47 the upper bound is exclusive 14:54:56 hitecnologys: you can try it for yourself 14:56:16 stassats: hmm, they are not eq. Is this what you meant? 14:56:39 have you tried it? 14:56:47 Yes, I get the same results. 14:56:50 (subseq '(1 2 3) 1) => (2 3), (subseq '(1 2 3) 1 2) => (2) 14:57:40 Ah. 14:58:00 I'm idiot, now I get it. 14:58:50 -!- sz0 [~textual@208.72.139.54] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 15:00:22 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:00:34 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:02:00 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:02:49 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 15:04:04 -!- stardiviner [~numbchild@120.199.210.235] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:05:03 Right, my mistake. I need to wake up. 15:05:46 (defun eat-the-banana-from-both-ends (it) (subseq it 1 (1- (length it)))) ;-) 15:05:55 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:81f:d320:8895:ab52] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:06:04 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:07:23 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 15:07:26 -!- railly [~lilin@211.142.247.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:07:32 stardiviner [~numbchild@120.199.210.235] has joined #lisp 15:07:37 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-124.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:48 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-124.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:02 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:81f:d320:8895:ab52] has joined #lisp 15:13:05 Joreji [~thomas@157-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 15:15:08 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 15:17:28 k0001 [~k0001@host251.190-138-115.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:19:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:19:56 Yeah, this looks like more precise name. 15:24:36 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:53 -!- normanrichards [~textual@mobile-166-147-067-209.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:05 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:33:08 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-scbirrggrnksdkct] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:34 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:25 Kaisyu [~Kaisyu@183.109.111.173] has joined #lisp 15:35:20 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 19:31:48 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 19:31:48 19:31:48 -!- names: ccl-logbot arenz sjl Cheery aerique_ rotty Vivitron vap1 blacklab` quasisan1 jtza8_ dmiles nullfxn heddwch sellout- Bike yrk alexherbo2 bgs100 angavrilov KaiQ OldContr` fridim_ harish_ drmeister oleo boogie nipra Poenikatu Corvidium jstypo oconnore zacharias foreignFunction ahungry_ DrCode scampbell alezost LiamH yacks keen_ zarul JuanDaugherty gigetoo pootler revolve kbtr Shinmera devon abeaumont davorb lman Tristam eagleflo Codynyx DrForr nialo` stopbit 19:31:48 -!- names: j_king danlentz Code_Man` aftershave effy darithorn xan_ MrWoohoo pierpa milosn EvW theos fsvehla mobius mrSpec scoofy w|t Guthur araujo gravicappa puchacz rtoym ahungry mikaelj BrianRice rk[imposter] ezakimak rk[tv] REPLeffect deadghost Petit_Dejeuner Pullphinger kirin` nydel hugod d4gg4d__ qiemem gluegadget dotemacs PuffTheMagic varjag wilfredh dim splittist_ whiteline wohonajax rvchangue mathrick loke_erc sirdancealo2 mishoo billitch ThePhoeron Vutral 19:31:48 -!- names: prip_ Oddity jayne Kabaka cpt_nemo Praise Mandus zophy nullman sorabji5252 doomlord_ Yamazaki-kun karswell` eigenlicht schoppenhauer ckoch786 joneshf-laptop capisce bhyde joast wormphlegm vnz yeltzooo cibs Posterdati Ogion Xach joneshf-work staykov macdice cmatei rdd _5kg dfox_ Kromitvs kmder ski knob sfa naryl MoALTz Neptu TristamWrk killmaster ozzloy surrounder newcup adeht ivan djinni` ecraven hpd eMBee madnificent Wackadoodle bjorkintosh Patzy daimrod 19:31:48 -!- names: jackdaniel dRbiG cenhyperion nightfly easye p_l PuercoPop zacts johs zz_runningskull Ralt The_third_man clog InvalidCo AntiSpamMeta fe[nl]ix nbouscal Blkt Munksgaard drdo ivan\ Adeon _d3f minion rvirding K1rk antoszka ircbrowse benny abbe yano billstclair eli lupine Roin Khisanth Krystof stuckie ianmcorvidae Jubb fikusz Kruppe hyperboreean shifty` JPeterson sixbitslacker phadthai pjb nightshade427 felipe ChibaPet Natch wyan gemelen brown` joshe cnl xian_ 19:31:48 -!- names: erg emma BlastHardcheese pchrist sid_cypher tychoish abend gensym flip511 fmu z0d vsync luis- lemoinem Tribal ft lysias freiksenet mood KingNato gabot ConstantineXVI yroeht nitro_idiot_ __main__ eak_ dlowe peccu mal___ setheus lasanbr jdoles GuilOooo Tordek oGMo Watcher7 cods Ash sigjuice_ Ober clop SHODAN otwieracz cory786 jaimef j0ni hellome Zhivago hzp mtd nicdev tessier koisoke_ ferada ``Erik samebchase jasom gf3 xristos sytse photex akersof justinmcp 19:31:48 -!- names: hiredman mshroyer sauerkrause arbscht igorw ered [SLB] tensorpudding musicalchair ramus iwilcox spacefrogg specbot sklr acieroid Guest9473 Anarch ineiros tvaalen plathrop Subfusc purentity cpape` Faed jsnell_ tkd epsylon theBlackDragon nuba_ tomaw redline6561 pok_ cmbntr_ cdidd bege |3b| sshirokov sbryant foom dyreshark dan64 Mathieu gko H4ns brucem MikeSeth Wukix tali713 mau_ asedeno ggherdov dsp_ zz_karupanerura stokachu vhost- aoh blackwolf delYsid` 19:31:48 -!- names: p_l|backup finnrobi felideon copec cross 19:32:47 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:33:07 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:33:07 Better at what? 19:33:23 victor_lowther_ [sid17606@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lbhpkgzsuyoxstsp] has joined #lisp 19:33:53 spacebat [~spacebat@150.101.97.47] has joined #lisp 19:33:58 Xach: at the programming level and at serving pages 19:34:19 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:33 BnMcGn [~ben@66.244.241.97] has joined #lisp 19:35:55 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:15 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:50 what do you think about wisp? 19:36:53 https://github.com/Gozala/wisp 19:37:29 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has joined #lisp 19:37:47 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:54 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:40:14 -!- BnMcGn [~ben@66.244.241.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:40:29 BnMcGn [~ben@66.244.241.97] has joined #lisp 19:42:50 -!- arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:45:03 -!- spacebat [~spacebat@150.101.97.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:51:40 It's a bit wispy 19:54:33 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.62.140] has joined #lisp 19:58:01 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-57-112.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:58:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-212.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:59:27 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:01:56 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:06 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-1.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:06:15 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-12-200.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:52 doomlord_ [~servitor@86.184.12.200] has joined #lisp 20:10:12 -!- 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21:37:35 Am I correct in my vague recollection that there are no longer web-accessible archives for the common-lisp.net mailing lists? 21:39:09 enn: that's my understanding 21:39:22 ok, thank you 21:39:23 -!- jewel [~jewel@197.111.255.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:39:43 enn: sort of 21:39:55 enn: there are archives, just no longer updated 21:40:30 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@ip68-106-18-79.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:40:32 ah 21:45:24 spacebat [~spacebat@150.101.97.47] has joined #lisp 21:47:43 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 21:51:29 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 21:56:16 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:04 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:04:48 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 22:05:26 -!- vap1 is now known as Vaporatorius 22:08:26 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:12:55 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-201-166.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:13:12 gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-28-91.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:50 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:15:59 -!- Poenikatu [~user@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:16:22 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 22:17:09 -!- sdemarre [~serge@45.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:17:26 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:32:05 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:35:02 wordable [~prebronze@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 22:35:13 -!- Wackadoodle is now known as HeHaw 22:35:49 -!- HeHaw is now known as Wackadoodle 22:36:09 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:57 -!- jstypo [~jstypo@190.75.126.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:44:45 ok found that sndplay of clm-4 does not play here.... 22:45:00 but aplay does! 22:45:01 heh 22:45:23 i got the fm-violin sound..... 22:45:54 but it's annoying that you have to have the source and compile it, before you can define any instruments.... 22:46:35 s/define/use/ 22:46:36 antonv [5daba1b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 22:47:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:52:00 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@66.Red-83-44-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 22:53:36 zilitor [~nick@cpe-70-112-15-188.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:56 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:55:31 ok fond the clue, clm-3's sndplay works, and clm-4's sndplay does not 22:55:44 copying the working over the nonworking got the sound in clm-4 too.... 22:55:47 Does anyone know the difference between Quickdocs and common-lisp.net's project hosting? It seems redundant but there must be some reason 22:55:56 weird.... 22:56:03 quickdocs just looks like (prettier) project hosting. 22:56:22 by project, I mean project-information. Obviously the source code will be somewhere else. 22:58:26 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:24 hi, anyone know what the environment variable is in this statement? (:import-from :osicat :environment-variable) 23:05:30 It's the string designator naming the symbol from the OSICAT package to be imported into the package being defined. 23:11:20 i'm having trouble loading osicat. do you know how to specify or load it? 23:11:21 http://pastebin.com/8vHQmksW 23:12:50 got the last msg btw, pbj 23:12:57 what is faster in SBCL, property lists or hashes? 23:14:08 it depends on the number of items, and frequency of lookups versus insertion etc 23:15:55 sometimes a plist may be more practical than a hash table for other reasons than performance also 23:18:07 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:34 phadthai: thanks 23:19:42 lman: Do you mean lookup, or insertion? 23:19:54 both 23:20:06 is get faster than getf? 23:20:08 I think hash-table lookup time is near linear. 23:20:13 er near constant 23:20:31 Because a property list is a list, it'll be linear. 23:21:01 But insertion is different. Pushing something onto the top of a property list will always be cheap. Inserting something in a hash table might trigger rebalancing. 23:21:04 yes, but what about get? couldn't it be optimized? 23:21:12 lman: the tests made were limited, but maybe you could find this interesting http://cvs.pulsar-zone.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/mmondor/mmsoftware/cl/test/string-dict-perf-test.lisp?rev=1.2;content-type=text%2Fplain (it might perhaps need some porting too, it was only a personal test) 23:22:25 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:501b:e260:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:24:39 mordocai [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has joined #lisp 23:26:08 /usr/share/dict/words <-- it is not in my system 23:26:36 it's only a dictionary with one word per line 23:27:12 does it matter if there are several words per line? 23:29:19 possibly it might need a minor modificiation in words-read then 23:29:36 to account for whitespace instead of newline 23:34:34 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:33 -!- gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-28-91.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:40:55 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 23:48:39 -!- mordocai [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:04 mordocai [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has joined #lisp 23:49:15 I have found that hashes are only useful for lookup when there are more than 64 elements 23:50:00 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217030130.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 23:50:27 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:50:28 does anyone know how to specify packages? getting "does not designate any package" error 23:50:48 zilitor: that often means you have not loaded the software that defines the package you're trying to reference. 23:51:32 Software often defines packages that have the same name as the project name (e.g. the VECTO project defines a VECTO package) but that's not always the case. 23:51:49 And projects often define more than one package, too. 23:53:58 zilitor: Can you elaborate on what you're trying to do? 23:54:40 -!- pierpa [~user@host110-243-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:54:44 http://pastebin.com/gGQs92vT 23:55:21 you can see where osicat is being imported-from 23:56:14 but then i get this error when i run: The name "OSICAT" does not designate any package. 23:56:29 When you run what? 23:56:30 what i'm trying to do is use caveman2 to run a web server 23:56:57 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 23:56:58 when i run (ql:quickload :myapp) in sbcl 23:57:14 zilitor: You should specify in myapp.asd that it :depends-on osicat. 23:57:19 *in quicklisp (i'm not exaclty sure which) 23:57:33 I think you should not put (ql:quickload ...) forms in .lisp files. 23:57:36 zilitor: Have you tried quickloading osicat in a file other than the one you try to use its symbols in? 23:57:49 kristof: that is not the issue. 23:58:41 wait... :depends-on osicat.. i'll try adding that 23:59:22 seems like the tutorials in https://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/clm/compmus/clm-tutorials/addsynth.html are obsolete too.... 23:59:25 Did you specify that it depends on clack and cl-ppcre and other required libraries in myapp.asd? 23:59:39 err, old, not updated 00:00:06 :start-time start-time is an unknown key errors i get..., not even required it seems.... 00:01:07 looks like :depends-on osicat is already in myapp.asd: http://pastebin.com/sK99Aj7B 00:01:48 yeah. this is caveman2. i think it auto generates the depends on stuff automatically 00:01:53 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 00:02:10 repo: https://github.com/fukamachi/caveman/blob/master/README.v2.markdown 00:02:46 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Client Quit] 00:03:03 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 00:03:24 zilitor: what is the name of the file containing the defpackage form? 00:03:41 otherwise i got clm-4 to work in sbcl latest git version too... 00:04:27 Xach: app.lisp 00:04:36 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.192.186] has joined #lisp 00:04:58 zilitor: that file isn't specified in myapp.asd anywhere - is it meant to be? 00:05:34 Or how were you loading app.lisp? 00:07:42 can't seem to figure that out 00:08:26 zilitor: normally a project's package definitions are part of it, not in some separate file. 00:09:57 Xach: interesting 00:10:21 desophos [~desophos@24-136-18-247.c3-0.hnc-ubr2.chi-hnc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:21 Huzzah! I learned how to use asdf today. 00:10:26 g2g. thanks for helping out everyone. i'll come back to this later. 00:10:36 I don't know how clack is setting things up for you, but I normally have a file called package.lisp that is loaded early 00:11:19 caveman2 is an alpha. that might be the problem. haha 00:11:32 Doubtful 00:11:44 Experience paves the way a little more clearly 00:12:12 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:51 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@74.194.37.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:12:55 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:03 Corvidium [~cosman246@74.194.37.145] has joined #lisp 00:17:37 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:18:14 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:52 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@74.194.37.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:20:39 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 00:22:05 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-147.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:25 Corvidium [~cosman246@74.194.37.145] has joined #lisp 00:23:54 gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-125-107.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:16 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:6198:5c34:f419:5720] has quit [Quit: EvW] 00:30:51 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:26 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:32:51 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 00:36:03 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:38:56 quick poll on the evilness of #.(macroexpand ...) 00:44:29 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:44:53 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 00:45:10 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:25 -!- gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-125-107.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:46:21 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 00:47:31 -!- wohonajax [~wohonajax@108-231-174-248.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 00:52:54 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@86.184.12.200] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:55:03 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzZZ] 00:57:10 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-59-182.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:03:07 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 01:03:11 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 01:05:16 -!- rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ebldnktmndmtwivs] has quit [] 01:05:55 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:03 jasom: curious why you're doing that 01:08:43 michael_lee [~michael_l@113.139.74.110] has joined #lisp 01:09:16 jasom: have a look at the environment argument of macroexpand. 01:10:02 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:08 Bike: an argument to a macro that is far more compact that way 01:12:37 ccan't redefine the macro to get that argument evaluated? 01:13:11 I could, but it may be non-trivial 01:13:44 well, i'm going to say that usually #. is evilish, macroexpand is evilish, so together they're evilerish. 01:14:55 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:15:15 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:15:23 hmmm, I could trivially change the macro to macroexpand its arguments, I suppose 01:15:26 jasom: (defmacro m (x) `(list ',x)) (macrolet ((m (y) `(list ',y ',y))) (macrolet ((e (f &environment env) `',(macroexpand f env))) (list (macroexpand '(m 1)) (e (m 1))))) 01:17:33 I think I get that pjb. I'm not sure I like it better than my solution though. 01:18:02 My point is that you cannot use macroexpansions in macros if you don't pass the environment to macroexpand. 01:18:11 And you cannot do that with #. 01:18:47 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 01:18:49 pjb: the macroexpansion isn't being used in the macro; it's happening at read-time 01:19:07 s/being-used/happening 01:20:02 -!- lman [~lman@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:20:03 No, macroexpansions are not happening at read time: there's no environment for them to happen at read time! 01:21:14 how is there no environment? At what point in a functioning lisp image is there no global environment? 01:21:51 macroexpand uses the global environment, *plus* anything in env 01:22:23 jasom: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_ba.htm 01:24:18 #. will evaluate in the evaluation environment. But "The compilation environment inherits from the evaluation environment, and the compilation environment and evaluation environment might be identical. The evaluation environment inherits from the startup environment, and the startup environment and evaluation environment might be identical. " might = might not. 01:25:33 In anycase, there's no reason why a macro argument would have any meaning in the evalation environment. 01:27:31 so a defmacro toplevel form is set in which environment? 01:27:58 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-59-182.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:28:23 "If a defmacro form appears as a top level form, the compiler must store the macro definition at compile time, so that occurrences of the macro later on in the file can be expanded correctly. Users must ensure that the body of the macro can be evaluated at compile time if it is referenced within the file being compiled." 01:28:52 and if it's defined in a different file, or in an eval-when? 01:29:59 in a different file, you have to ensure that it is loaded in the startup environment, which is inherited by the compilation environment the second compilation unit. 01:30:23 With eval-when you control where it goes. 01:30:31 -!- heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:31:14 So defmacro puts the macro in the compilation environment, in a way that its macro function can be evaluated (in the evaluation environment). 01:32:17 Anyway I had it in an eval-when 01:32:21 But the question is not the macro function, it's the arguments to a macro call. 01:32:22 How does #. works ? 01:32:23 b/c I thought that was sufficient 01:32:29 clhs #. 01:32:30 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm 01:32:39 (m x) there's no reason why x would have anything to do in the evaluation environment. 01:32:51 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:33:17 zRecursive: #. reads the following form and evaluates it (with EVAL) in the evaluation environment, during read time. The result is then returned as the object read by #. 01:34:54 yeah, what about using #. in defmacro ? 01:34:55 heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has joined #lisp 01:35:13 Read time. 01:35:16 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:17 zRecursive: it happens at read-time. 01:35:28 (defmacro m () '#.(+ 1 2 3)) ; no problem. 01:35:30 pjb: where do you get that it happens in the evaluation environment? 01:35:55 It's written in http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_ba.htm 01:36:11 "The evaluation environment is a run-time environment in which macro expanders and code specified by eval-when to be evaluated are evaluated. All evaluations initiated by the compiler take place in the evaluation environment. " 01:36:49 #. is a macro expander? 01:37:02 No. macroexpand is. 01:37:20 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:37:21 But it's the compiler that reads, and if there's an evaluation there it's initiated by the compiler. 01:37:53 i see now,thx 01:38:17 Right, but the macro definitions that are not exclusive to the compilation environment should be available 01:38:32 Yes. 01:38:35 i.e. not ones that are top-level forms in the current file 01:38:53 which may or may not be available depending on how the implementation does things 01:39:07 okay, so we actually agreed on how this worked 01:39:54 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 01:40:11 Even if you have an implementation that does what you want, you may be surprised by the different behaviors when you compile-file, quit and load the .fasl vs. (load (compile-file src)) 01:40:29 naturally 01:42:30 Yes, I agree that (defmacro foo ...) #.(macroexpand (foo ..)) is Bad 01:42:42 but I wasn't doing precisely that. 01:44:10 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:48:50 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-59-182.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:02:05 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:17 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:42 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:19:26 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.61.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:21:12 sdemarre [~serge@45.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 02:21:40 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-214-16.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:23:51 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-255-140.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:24 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:29:42 pierre1 [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 02:37:17 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 02:39:33 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:39:57 Indecipherable [~Indy@41.13.140.239] has joined #lisp 02:42:01 KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B21B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:42:10 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:42:24 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 02:43:47 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:44:14 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:45:04 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:45 -!- sdemarre [~serge@45.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:48:47 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 02:51:26 -!- Indecipherable [~Indy@41.13.140.239] has left #lisp 02:54:15 KarlDscc [~localhost@p5B2B1C3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:54:39 -!- KarlDscc is now known as Guest21031 02:55:13 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 02:56:53 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:98ee:bf1a:74ac:5be7] has joined #lisp 02:57:16 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:58:33 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B21B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:58:57 When should I use PACKAGE::SYMBOL instead of PACKAGE:SYMBOL? Is there a difference? 03:00:32 one colon is for exported symbols 03:01:43 -!- pierre1 [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:01:44 And two colons is for any symbol in the package? 03:01:48 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:14 -!- Guest21031 [~localhost@p5B2B1C3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:15 I guess that explains why the former was working for me and the latter was giving me the error that the symbol had not been exported :) 03:02:27 yes 03:02:48 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 03:05:22 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:14:38 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:98ee:bf1a:74ac:5be7] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:14:43 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 03:16:00 pierre1 [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 03:17:38 -!- pierre1 [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:18:23 pierre1 [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 03:18:39 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-184-94.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:18:55 Xach: how quicklisp works if more than one dist is installed? 03:19:55 I assume several dists may be enabled at the same time 03:21:25 antonv: dists and related objects may be assigned a priority value (an integer). whenever two systems with the same name are available, the one with the higher priority is selected. 03:21:49 this has not been exercised in practice, there may be flaws in execution 03:22:19 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-157-239.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:22:26 I am thinking of creating my own dist 03:22:27 the intent was that by default, the priority would be the universal-time of installation, so newer things override older things unless explicitly specified otherwise 03:22:30 antonv: cool 03:23:11 I want to base on some existing dist and override only several libraries 03:24:03 antonv: that is a use-case i'd love to support well. if you run into problems in how the client handles it, please let me know and i will help however i can. 03:24:34 I am thinking how to handle it 03:24:55 I could enable two dists: the "quicklisp" dist and my own with higher prioirty 03:25:05 in this case my own dist contains only the libraries I want to override 03:26:09 that *should8 work fine. 03:27:05 this variant would take a little bit more coding for configuring quicklisp: 1. - update the "quicklisp" dist to particular version; 2 - ensure my dist is installed; 3 - enable both dists; 4 - ensure my dist has higher priority than the "quicklisp" dist 03:27:25 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:98ee:bf1a:74ac:5be7] has joined #lisp 03:27:25 when I want to go back to the usual configuration, I need to ensure quicklisp is the only dist installed 03:27:41 could you simply disable your dist or make it lower priority? 03:27:46 i mean _enabled_ 03:27:46 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27:51 ah 03:28:23 another approach is to copy full content of the "quicklisp" dist into my dist, and change only several libraries 03:28:34 I see that I have called the integer value "preference", not "priority" 03:28:39 so I can just install and enable only my dist, and don't have "quicklisp" enabled 03:29:06 yes 03:29:09 both are clear 03:30:17 nipra [~nipra@122.177.160.117] has joined #lisp 03:30:29 in the second variant the disadvantage is waste of disk space - it will download and store copies of the same libraries for "quicklisp" dist and my dist 03:33:42 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.140] has joined #lisp 03:34:33 so as a user I want to be able to say (configure-quicklisp :dists '((:name "my-dist" :version "2013-12-20") (:name "quicklisp" :version "2013-11-11"))) 03:35:02 and this call configures quicklisp so that only the two specified dists are enabled, "my-dist" has higher priority 03:35:19 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-234-131.w109-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:35:31 Good morning everyone! 03:36:35 beach: morning 03:37:06 Xach: what do you think about adding another property possible to distinfo.txt - parent-dist 03:37:51 the value is a canonical-distinfo-url of another dist 03:37:54 antonv: is parent the right word for the relationship? is it more of a prerequisite? 03:38:40 Xach: the "parent" word is used for such relationship in some systems 03:39:24 beach: I was all set to say "good morning vietnam" but I guess that's not currently operative 03:39:46 slyrus: True. 03:39:47 in the sense that "my-dist" is descendent of particular "quicklisp" dist, it inherits all it's libraries, but overrrides some of them 03:40:06 antonv: perhaps some even higher level of aggregation, e.g. of dists that are meant to relate to each other in a particular way 03:40:11 metadists? 03:40:50 Xach: what do you mean? how it works? 03:41:55 you mean doesn't handle this at dist level, but introduce an object specifying several dists, their versions and order they are queried? 03:41:55 antonv: if you have my-dist that is incomplete except in the presence of another dist (its parent), perhaps there's an opportunity to describe that relationship with another object rather than within the dist. or maybe not. 03:42:13 yes, I now understand 03:42:42 I'm afraid I can't discuss it more right now, sorry. Some other work to do. 03:42:48 ok 03:49:58 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 03:50:56 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:03 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:55:13 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:59:13 -!- blacklab` [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:01:14 resttime [~resttime@c-50-158-65-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:51 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:98ee:bf1a:74ac:5be7] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:02:36 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:03 slyrus: Am I remembering right that you are the one who created the GIT repository of McCLIM on GitHub? 04:06:57 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:98ee:bf1a:74ac:5be7] has joined #lisp 04:07:41 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:07:52 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:07:55 Hmm, now that I Google it, I find two other McCLIM repositories on GitHub: timoore and antifuchs. 04:11:09 Vivitron [~Vivitron@ip68-106-18-79.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:25 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-156-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:26 OK, it appears that there are at least 3 McCLIM repositories on GitHub: timoore (which I assume is moore33), antifuchs, and slyrus. What's a good way of comparing them? 04:13:09 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-153-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:15:43 -!- resttime [~resttime@c-50-158-65-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:23:10 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 04:23:24 -!- motionman is now known as NudistMarathon 04:26:23 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.160.117] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:27:42 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-61-56.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 04:27:53 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-61-56.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 04:27:53 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 04:29:40 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 04:30:14 -!- MoALTz [~no@host81-153-176-180.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:30:28 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:18 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:52 Does sbcl use UTF-8 internally to represent strings? 04:35:26 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:36:49 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:37:24 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-61-56.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 04:37:44 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-61-56.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 04:37:44 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 04:38:13 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:40:03 optikalmouse [~omouse@184.151.190.107] has joined #lisp 04:47:33 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@ip68-106-18-79.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:52:12 p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:42 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:16 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-61-56.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 04:57:31 -!- ldionmarcil 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-!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:42:05 -!- pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.87] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:42:12 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 06:43:18 pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.87] has joined #lisp 06:44:38 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@74.194.37.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:47:23 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:48:11 sdemarre [~serge@45.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 06:50:02 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@184.151.190.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:51:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:52:20 dirtyzero [~dirtyzero@c-71-198-73-2.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:37 -!- dirtyzero [~dirtyzero@c-71-198-73-2.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:57:32 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-234-131.w109-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 07:01:52 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-202-159.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:02:33 aynik [~aynik@unaffiliated/aynik] has joined #lisp 07:02:41 orthecreedence [~kvirc@c-67-180-62-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:54 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.192.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:29 -!- pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:12:04 pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.87] has joined #lisp 07:13:58 Hi all. Why M-x slime-load-system command could be absent (with all others related to asdf)? 07:14:11 you need to load the slime-asdf contrib 07:14:45 -!- zilitor [~nick@cpe-70-112-15-188.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:15:15 alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:15:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:17:48 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:20:57 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 07:21:27 zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB2031.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:21:27 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:32 hualet_deepin [~user@59.173.241.82] has joined #lisp 07:25:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:26:21 k-dot [~Unknown@242.sub-70-208-67.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 07:27:37 Bike: thanks, it works now. 07:27:55 -!- k-dot [~Unknown@242.sub-70-208-67.myvzw.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:29:53 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 07:30:32 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32:16 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:d1b6:768f:8909:3492] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:33:32 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 07:34:35 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-19-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:38:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:38:29 -!- darithorn [~darithorn@71-94-181-151.dhcp.knwc.wa.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:38:53 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-147.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:42:17 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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the connection] 12:49:42 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.62.140] has joined #lisp 12:53:44 echo-area [~user@114.254.102.26] has joined #lisp 12:53:51 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.62.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:55:29 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-110-134-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:55:47 matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:52 given a generic: 12:55:54 (defgeneric mymap (fun obj)) 12:56:30 how do I define a method that must accepto a function as first argument which MUST be called using 2 arguments? 12:56:36 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.62.140] has joined #lisp 12:56:54 that is, "fun" must have 2 arguments 12:58:56 lman: you can not, a method will only dispatch on class or eql specializers 12:59:12 fsvehla_ [~fsvehla@h081217030130.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 12:59:13 and an n-arity function is of the class function 13:00:04 so I can only dispatch for function type but not for function numer of arguments? 13:00:20 function _class_ 13:00:37 as dtw said 13:00:51 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217030130.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:00:52 -!- fsvehla_ is now known as fsvehla 13:01:25 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:04:11 you can actually declare functions types that would define certain requirements for the function, but you can not dispatch on types 13:04:19 http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/d_ftype.htm#ftype 13:05:33 so if you want to enforce some constraint you might be able to use that, but it's not dispatching 13:06:02 maybe that's what you were asking for anyway 13:07:11 so using FTYPE declarations I can't dispatch? 13:08:23 francogrex [~user@73.169-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 13:09:02 sorry i may have confused you, they are two entirely different things 13:09:32 method dispatch is only concerned with classes and eql specializers 13:09:32 merry christmas :) 13:10:30 ftype allows you to declare some constraints for a given function, not sure if you will be able to constrain it in the manner you wish though 13:12:29 aap_ [~aap@85.183.44.54] has joined #lisp 13:12:56 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB2031.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:13:34 ok thank Guthur` 13:15:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-110-134-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:16:53 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 13:17:59 what is the most advanced paper/tutorial/book I can read about CLOS? 13:19:12 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 13:20:14 lman: the best tutorial introduction is the book by sonya keene 13:20:47 lman: the Art of the Metaobject Protocol explains how things interact, and it doubles as an interesting example of designing generic function protocols 13:21:12 Practical Common Lisp has good CLOS usage examples 13:21:55 xyh [~user@113.108.133.56] has joined #lisp 13:22:12 does anybody know a directed-graph processing language ?? 13:22:20 Xach: thank you 13:22:37 can I download somewhere? I've seen it google books 13:22:56 The PDF was once freely available from Apress but I don't think it is any more. 13:23:42 what book? may be i can find it 13:24:07 xyh: Metaobject Protocol sonya keene 13:24:37 Those books are not availble for free. 13:25:08 Selected chapters of AMOP are available online as HTML, but not the whole thing. 13:25:12 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:31 i an in china 13:25:31 i am in china 13:25:50 xyh: if you find it, can you please pass me? 13:25:52 no copyright 13:25:59 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:00 lol 13:26:29 If you'd like to discuss getting non-free books for free, please do it somewhere else. 13:26:30 matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:49 Unless it's from a lending library. 13:26:49 sorry ;) 13:27:00 lman out of interest at what point were you hoping the constraint would be enforced? 13:27:46 well copyright was invented to help author create more books, once upon a time, IIUC, but that's also another topic not really suitable here I guess 13:28:13 Guthur`: I just want to define a method that ensures that a function with 2 arguments are passed, but I suppose I just should trust on CL conditions 13:28:20 sorry 13:29:15 dim: you're right, this is not the place 13:29:20 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:39 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:30:23 vaporatorius [~vaporator@51.Red-88-5-227.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:25 araujo_ [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has joined #lisp 13:31:27 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:11 lman: if you pass a function that as not binary function and then try to use it as such it will throw a runtime 13:34:24 that's what you can trust CL to do 13:34:34 runtime/runtime error 13:35:02 can you use deftype to represent a function of two arguments? 13:35:11 -!- araujo_ [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:26 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:36:06 dim: interestingly, according to wiki, copyrights origin had more to do with press (printing) control and censorship 13:36:16 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:36:37 you can find RMS talks about it with some history viewpoint 13:42:21 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:42:51 -!- francogrex [~user@73.169-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:44:30 teggi [~teggi@123.21.195.60] has joined #lisp 13:46:56 -!- sjl [~sjl@li136-50.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:47:19 Guthur`: yes, I'm doing that for now 13:47:33 but this could make some runtime error I think 13:47:37 that is what worries me 13:48:31 sjl [~sjl@li136-50.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:14 -!- j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:50:12 j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:49 when #+nil(some-form) will work? 13:52:54 -!- zarul [~zarul@ubuntu/member/zarul] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:53:13 lman: CL is a dynamic language, if you want static compile time reassurances you can't really have it, declare will work some time for somethings but is not a guarantee 13:53:24 I am trying to reproduce it by pushing NIL to *FEATURES* but it doesn't reproduce 13:53:26 lman: you can't have your cake and eat it 13:53:49 bmarley [~user@113.108.133.58] has joined #lisp 13:54:34 STilda|2 [~kvirc@188.162.166.14] has joined #lisp 13:54:57 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:54:59 BrianRice` [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:33 -!- xyh [~user@113.108.133.56] has left #lisp 13:55:47 plathrop_ [~plathrop@ec2-50-18-191-3.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:49 -!- plathrop_ [~plathrop@ec2-50-18-191-3.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:55:49 plathrop_ [~plathrop@pdpc/supporter/professional/plathrop] has joined #lisp 13:56:08 echo-are` [~user@114.254.102.26] has joined #lisp 13:56:40 tvaalen_ [~r@kinda.sorta.maybe.going.postal.se] has joined #lisp 13:56:42 antonv: :nil perhaps. 13:56:49 effy_ [~x@111.197.233.78] has joined #lisp 13:56:58 kdas_ [~kdas@114.143.161.31] has joined #lisp 13:57:15 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:33 oGMo_ [~rpav@mephle.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:40 Xach: oh, yes, thanks 13:57:43 jaimef_ [jaimef@166.84.6.60] has joined #lisp 13:57:59 Adlai` [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:58:11 jasom_ [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:11 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:58:17 rvchangue_ [~rvchangue@cpe-075-176-104-079.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:20 Xach: I am investigating vecto failure on clisp, BTW 13:58:26 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:58:34 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-test-grid/library/vecto.html 13:58:44 efftee [efftee@oldshell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #lisp 13:58:44 -!- ft [efftee@oldshell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:58:45 clop2 [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:45 -!- kdas_ is now known as kushal 13:58:50 -!- efftee is now known as ft 13:58:52 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.31] has quit [Changing host] 13:58:52 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:58:55 it looks like something pushes :NIL to *FEATURES* and then cl-vectors complains about it 13:58:56 Tordek_ [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-vpctspaneksexblu] has joined #lisp 13:59:02 ok Guthur` I understand 13:59:09 Sourceless_ [~Sourceles@milan.cs.york.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:59:32 antonv: ouch. i wonder who would do such a thing. 13:59:35 zarul [~zarul@ubuntu/member/zarul] has joined #lisp 14:00:25 I don't know. But it works without error on another CLISP (on windows) 14:01:29 -!- davazp [~user@170.Red-83-63-202.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 14:02:08 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:03 -!- Guthur` [~user@ppp118-210-76-156.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:57 Ethan-_ [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:29 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04:33 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:04:59 Fade [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:02 -!- echo-area [~user@114.254.102.26] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:02 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5025:58d0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:02 -!- STilda [~kvirc@188.162.166.14] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:02 -!- Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:02 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:02 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:02 -!- effy [~x@111.197.233.78] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:02 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:02 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:02 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:02 -!- prip_ [~foo@host198-121-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:02 -!- Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- Roin [1006@unaffiliated/roin] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- cjwelborn [cjwelborn@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-jhgkpvxsssfelzee] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- jsnell_ [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- Faed [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- plathrop [~plathrop@pdpc/supporter/professional/plathrop] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- tvaalen [~r@kinda.sorta.maybe.going.postal.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- Guest9473 [~Sourceles@milan.cs.york.ac.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- koisoke_ [xef4@epilogue.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- jaimef [jaimef@166.84.6.60] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- oGMo [~rpav@mephle.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-bskqsisejrbcncdw] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- lasanbr [cervanto@silenceisdefeat.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:06:03 -!- oGMo_ is now known as oGMo 14:06:14 -!- rvchangue_ is now known as rvchangue 14:06:14 -!- plathrop_ is now known as plathrop 14:06:14 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-075-176-104-079.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:06:14 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 14:06:49 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 14:08:02 -!- bmarley [~user@113.108.133.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:08:58 interestingly enough it seems that in some pgloader testing, ccl 1.9 is systematically faster than sbcl 1.1.10 14:09:17 upgrading sbcl to 1.1.14 then 14:10:05 prip_ [~foo@host198-121-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:11:02 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5025:58d0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 14:11:02 cjwelborn [cjwelborn@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-jhgkpvxsssfelzee] has joined #lisp 14:11:02 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:02 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 14:11:02 koisoke_ [xef4@epilogue.org] has joined #lisp 14:11:02 lasanbr [cervanto@silenceisdefeat.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:05 Roin [1006@unaffiliated/roin] has joined #lisp 14:11:09 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.220.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:12:19 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:15 Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 14:14:28 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:42 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5025:58d0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19:43 ineiros [~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has joined #lisp 14:19:49 yeah still faster, but I should maybe fix that bug I have against CCL, related to logging in a file which is closed already (sayth the debugger), and where CCL complains that Stream # is private to # 14:20:21 so I guess I need to rediret all log trafic to a single thread? 14:21:46 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 14:24:13 -!- joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:24:31 Davidbrcz_ [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:31 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:27 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-036-129.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:34:52 joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:38:12 nipra [~nipra@122.177.93.124] has joined #lisp 14:42:28 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 14:43:21 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has joined #lisp 14:45:52 -!- Roin [1006@unaffiliated/roin] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:51:22 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.251.53] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 14:52:51 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.220.55] has joined #lisp 14:53:55 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 14:59:18 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.220.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:00:53 -!- lman [~lman@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:03:29 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:06:25 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:18:20 -!- Ethan-_ [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:22:35 Corvidium [~cosman246@74.194.37.145] has joined #lisp 15:37:02 great, closure-html stopped parsing properly 15:39:00 now you know what to do with your extra time 15:39:53 looks like an encoding error, i see no way to specify the encoding when i pass a binary array to it 15:40:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-1.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:41:32 -!- add^_ [~user@2001:16d8:cc2c:0:8c30:a1b8:ee21:3cef] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:42:38 indeed, that was less painful 15:42:44 (than i had imagined) 15:43:12 nice 15:43:49 interestingly, it parses the html without any errors, just some elements are missing 15:44:15 if it's meant to be that way, it's quite cool 15:44:21 and if had not noticed that the result was incorrect, i wouldn't have noticed the problem 15:44:34 that then is not cool at all 15:44:56 I think I'm about ready for my role as captain obvious now 15:45:58 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 15:47:37 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:08 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:53:02 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:52 thepreacher [~thepreach@75.34.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:01 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:32 -!- thepreacher [~thepreach@75.34.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:59:41 dim: that is the kind of situation where signalling or multiple values come in handy' 15:59:43 rvchangue_ [~rvchangue@cpe-075-176-104-079.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:18 -!- rvchangue_ is now known as rvchangue 16:00:18 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-075-176-104-079.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:00:18 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 16:00:42 talking about the central monitoring and logging thread? 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17:43:43 (destructuring-bind (a &rest b) (apply #'a-macro a b)) 17:44:36 of course, as-is, Compile-time error: The macro name A-MACRO was found as the argument to FUNCTION. 17:46:19 cdidd [~cdidd@95-25-12-219.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 17:50:48 dim: what do you want to achieve ? 17:52:13 it turns out that cl-logs:log-message is a macro 17:53:08 and to solve the logs problem when sharing a stream in between threads (works in sbcl, breaks in ccl and I guess about everywhere else), I'm having a "monitoring" thread that receives and dispatches messages 17:53:31 the main message being :log for now, where it receives the parameters to send to cl-log:log-message 17:53:33 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:43 which is a macro, so the &rest trick gets... well, tricky 17:55:50 STilda|2 [~kvirc@188.162.166.14] has joined #lisp 17:58:06 ok breaking a layer of abstraction did it 17:58:34 (destructuring-bind (a b &rest c) (cl-log:log-message a (apply #'format nil b c))) 17:59:10 keen_ [~blackened@p73a2a7fb.wmaxuq00.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:59:45 pierre1 [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 17:59:48 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:00:58 apply format nil!! 18:01:07 *Xach* spies a non-lisptip-reader 18:01:26 dim: is it possible to use eval? 18:02:02 lman: yes, but this is not the place for eval 18:02:03 maybe I should use with-output-to-string yeah 18:02:35 well but that doesn't change much 18:03:11 Hmm, I guess I didn't lisptip it. 18:03:22 dim: (format nil "~{~}" b c) is another way 18:03:52 trying, thanks 18:04:11 encapsulating the macro in a lambda? 18:04:27 mmm, b in my example is the format string, right? 18:04:59 yeah seems to work 18:05:38 thanks! 18:06:35 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has joined #lisp 18:07:22 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:07:52 so when comparing run time for MySQL and SQLite migrations to PostgreSQL with pgloader, it seems that CCL 1.9 is faster than SBCL 1.1.14, repeatedly 18:08:01 and now, without spurious logging errors 18:09:09 sellout- [~Adium@2601:b:8200:71:41de:5b82:252c:972d] has joined #lisp 18:09:33 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:11:00 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 18:13:30 dim: why is that? 18:13:44 dunno 18:15:35 sbcl is about twice as fast in a test where the main processing has been carefully optimized by stassats, tho ;-) 18:18:00 Twice as fast is not good enough. You need to be ten times better to motivate a switch :-) 18:20:09 -!- STilda|2 [~kvirc@188.162.166.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:21:26 well most of my users will not care about which lisp it's running 18:21:40 they will just use a pgloader binary image 18:21:55 I might even see about producing a .jar, maybe 18:22:33 but I'm not sure it would solve any problem I might have, I can already ship a .exe (didn't try on windows yet) 18:22:34 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 18:22:46 aftershave [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:24:11 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:26:39 sword [~sword@c-24-21-33-225.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:56 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:30:11 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 18:30:56 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: mental process corrupted into perpetual vacuum] 18:32:23 jewel [~jewel@197.111.255.250] has joined #lisp 18:39:04 -!- sellout- [~Adium@2601:b:8200:71:41de:5b82:252c:972d] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:40:43 sellout- [~Adium@c-68-83-156-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:32 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1C3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:42:31 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:45 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 12:10:45 12:10:45 -!- names: ccl-logbot pranavrc _death KaiQ Kruppe- [SLB] mshroyer_ surrounder flip511 gensym stokachu rainbyte16 rk[trans1ort] impulse- kbtr_ Labrit fmu mikaelj_ cods karswell` ltbarcly kcj KingNato w37 OldContrarian ThePhoeron bitonic` stepnem milosn oleo Shinmera zickzackv theos ramkrsna Vutral lman Codynyx alexherbo2 effy xan_ 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ahungry zacts eagleflo lemoinem mtd |3b| antgreen sshirokov Mathieu victor_lowther_ 12:10:45 -!- names: gko sbryant p_l nullFxn fikusz Anarch sfa cnl smull ZombieChicken felipe daimrod cdidd dfox plathrop gemelen Praise theBlackDragon robiv JPeterson ered BrianRice housel Fade zarul Sourceless clop2 ft jasom oGMo jsnell tvaalen_ j0ni sjl clog Patzy wchun spacebat enn aerique_ devon davorb nialo` stopbit j_king danlentz rtoym rk[imposter] hugod d4gg4d__ qiemem gluegadget PuffTheMagic varjag wilfredh dim splittist_ jayne cpt_nemo Mandus nullman sorabji5252 12:10:45 -!- names: Yamazaki-kun eigenlicht capisce wormphlegm vnz cibs Posterdati Xach staykov rdd Kromitvs ski Neptu TristamWrk ozzloy ivan ecraven hpd madnificent Wackadoodle jackdaniel cenhyperion PuercoPop johs Ralt The_third_man AntiSpamMeta nbouscal Munksgaard drdo ivan\ Adeon _d3f minion K1rk ircbrowse benny billstclair Krystof hyperboreean sixbitslacker phadthai Natch wyan xian_ BlastHardcheese cross copec felideon finnrobi p_l|backup blackwolf aoh vhost- 12:10:45 -!- names: karupanerura dsp_ ggherdov asedeno mau_ tali713 Wukix MikeSeth brucem dan64 dyreshark foom bege cmbntr_ pok_ tomaw epsylon tkd Subfusc sklr specbot spacefrogg iwilcox ramus musicalchair igorw sauerkrause hiredman justinmcp akersof photex sytse xristos gf3 samebchase ``Erik tessier nicdev hzp Zhivago SHODAN Ober sigjuice_ Ash Watcher7 jdoles setheus sid_cypher tychoish abend vsync mood ConstantineXVI yroeht nitro_idiot_ __main__ eak_ peccu 12:11:59 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:12:47 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 12:13:52 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:14:01 alezost` [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:15:41 -!- alezost` is now known as alezost 12:17:51 -!- KingNato [~isildur@83.226.238.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:18:29 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:18:41 KingNato [~isildur@c-e9eee253.012-31-73746f43.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:20:27 bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:21:26 alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:23:20 cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:12 Total newbie question: is it possible to compile Common Lisp code into native binaries (on Linux)? Is that what's typically done when one deploys software written in Lisp? Or does it need a runtime? 12:25:39 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:06 CrazyEddy [~unalist@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 12:26:52 <|3b|> both? 12:26:58 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 12:27:06 <|3b|> many implementations compile to native code even when used interactively 12:27:31 <|3b|> some create standalone binaries even when they don't compile to native code at all 12:27:39 I see. 12:27:52 <|3b|> almost all include a runtime in their standalone binaries 12:28:37 Right. As long as users aren't required to separately install "Lisp" (like they are with Java), I'm happy. 12:28:42 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.17.104] has joined #lisp 12:29:44 antonv [5daba1b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 12:29:50 <|3b|> downside of that is the standalone binaries tend to be a bit larger than you might expect (few MB to tens of MB for "hello world" for example) 12:29:58 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:43 But you can compile your program into native, not requiring a runtime at all, right? 12:30:44 OldContrarian: Only Franz charges extra for deployment runtime, while ABCL requires including the runtime (but this is bread and butter to java enviroment, and you can bundle it in JAR/WAR/EAR/WTF). Everyone else afaik has capability to make standalone binaries, sometime with option of generating a DLL or more 12:31:04 -!- flip511 is now known as flip214 12:31:21 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 12:31:21 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 12:31:40 though I do not recall all variants in Franz licensing (it's sometimes best and worst part of the company at the same time...) 12:32:00 <|3b|> OldContrarian: "native" and "runtime" are independent 12:32:38 and AllegroCL (Franz's lisp) does support making independent executables, although the ones they deliver themselves tend to be stretched over multiple files 12:32:50 (download Gruff or AllegroGraph to see) 12:33:06 -!- Guthur [~user@ppp118-210-76-156.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:23 |3b|: Well, when I say native, I mean as in compiled like a C program would be. You don't need to ship a C runtime environment with your C programs, just the program itself (which is typically much smaller than 1 MB), I'm wondering if the same is possible with Lisp. 12:33:29 <|3b|> CL standard library is included in what I'm calling "runtime" 12:34:06 <|3b|> OldContrarian: you need a C standard library for most C programs though, you just usually already have one on C based OS 12:34:06 As compared to libc, you mean? 12:34:14 <|3b|> right 12:34:22 Right, I see. 12:34:26 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:34 <|3b|> also, many implementations use the compiler at runtime, for example for things like optimizing CLOS 12:34:42 I wouldn't exactly call libc a runtime, but I get your point. 12:35:29 <|3b|> and the compiler is available to user code at runtime as well, so you would have to do some work to verify the user code couldn't call it before removing it anyway 12:35:40 jewel [~jewel@197.175.177.140] has joined #lisp 12:35:52 So, basically, my Lisp program would be (in C terms) statically linked with Lisp's equivalent of libc when I deploy the code. 12:35:58 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 12:36:02 Correct? 12:36:06 <|3b|> (some implementations have that feature, usually called a "tree shaker", but ram/disk are cheap enough that it hasn't been a priority for most of the free implementations) 12:36:20 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 12:36:26 Davidbrcz_ [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:28 <|3b|> right 12:36:35 -!- cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:36:49 <|3b|> though CL includes the whole compiler in the "standard library" 12:36:53 libc is very much a runtime 12:37:08 Ok, thans for the info guys, that answers my questions. 12:37:47 ggole: I always took "runtime" to mean "a program that runs bytecode (or similar)"? 12:38:24 That's not how most people use the term. 12:38:35 (I think "virtual machine" is more common for that.) 12:38:39 (phone) 12:38:42 OldContrarian: it might be possible to compile lisp code into a native _library_ with ecl, I'd guess. 12:39:06 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-5-44.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:41:20 hualet_deepin [~user@183.94.92.143] has joined #lisp 12:42:00 -!- sellout- [~Adium@71-218-21-235.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:43:26 arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.253] has joined #lisp 12:44:00 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-5-44.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:44:02 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:44:24 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-5-44.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:44:26 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-5-44.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:49 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-5-44.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:44:50 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-5-44.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:46:12 (back) 12:47:01 ggole: Yes, I guess I use the words "runtime" and "virtual machine" pretty much interchangably (which may well be incorrect) 12:48:54 On the contrary. 12:49:15 -!- jewel [~jewel@197.175.177.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:49:22 *|3b|* notes that clisp (which compiles to bytecode) produces relatively small standalone binaries compared to the (free) native code compilers 12:49:27 -!- arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:49:45 <|3b|> still a few MB though 12:50:14 -!- hualet_deepin [~user@183.94.92.143] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:17 OldContrarian: a virtual machine is a target, providing some kind of semantics: a runtime is running code that takes care of some task. 12:52:47 -!- frgo [~user@p5498EBDF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:52:48 ggole: ... for another process, you mean? 12:52:50 The C runtime takes care of threading, I/O, and some other bits and pieces 12:53:00 ggole: the difference is not that big. 12:53:35 One can consider that the machine is the source language. Therefore the "runtime library" is just the implementation of the virtual machine. 12:54:09 Or you may put the distinction at any level you want. 12:54:24 They are separate enough that you can swap out the runtime without changing the machine interface (and this is common). 12:54:49 Call "run-time" the microcode downloaded into processors, since it's but a library taking care of some tasks, when running code on a processor. 12:55:13 ggole: things are modular. You've not progressed. 12:55:17 -!- karupanerura is now known as zz_karupanerura 12:55:34 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5000:6420:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:55:41 Go ahead and be confused if you like. 12:56:28 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-110-134-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:58:07 Furthermore, when people distribute "software appliances" as applications inside virtual machine, the distinction between library, OS and VM is really thin, whatever the distance you're looking at it. 13:00:43 hualet_deepin [~user@183.94.92.143] has joined #lisp 13:03:36 nilsi_ [~nilsi@49.73.144.45] has joined #lisp 13:03:56 hualet_d` [~user@183.94.92.143] has joined #lisp 13:05:03 -!- hualet_deepin [~user@183.94.92.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:05:41 jewel [~jewel@197.175.177.140] has joined #lisp 13:06:30 slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:23 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Remote host 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14:45:21 alexherb1 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-75-126.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:45:28 can anyone speak to the state of the cl-postgres integration with local-time? 14:46:03 enn: i don't know if it has changed much over the past few years, but i don't remember running into issues a few years back. my memory of it is a bit fuzzy, so i might be wrong. 14:46:17 -!- antonv [5daba1b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.171.161.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:47:22 madnificent: thanks ... seems to have not seen much development lately, I'm hoping that's because it's stable and complete 14:48:03 -!- MasterJack [~user@95-42-48-60.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:48:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@147.30.99.154] has joined #lisp 14:48:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@147.30.99.154] has quit [Changing host] 14:48:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:50:02 -!- MasterJa` 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error: Operation timed out] 15:49:36 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:51:38 Is there a working gtk instance for windows? I took the GTK bundle (dlls) for Windows and attempted all the different GTK packages available under (ql:system-apropos "gtk"), all failed to quickload 15:52:34 First I received, missing libintl-8.dll - when I did a shoddy workaround (copied intl.dll -> libintl-8.dll) I received a missing libffi-6.dll error 15:53:13 The cl-gtk2-gtk package worked great under GNU/Linux, sadly no such luck on windows 15:53:38 ahungry: I got it working under windows at one point, and I had to copy a number of libs from somewhere 15:54:59 -!- rainbyte16 [~rainbyte@190.191.168.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:55:17 rainbyte [~rainbyte@190.191.168.24] has joined #lisp 15:55:29 Yea, my google-fu must be getting weak, I could not find anything for those missing dlls - I originally thought I'd just use hunchentoot + local web page to get around the GUI woes of cross platform 15:55:47 but it seems like that will throw up problems with antivirus/firewalls for windows users 15:55:56 saying something wants to run a webserver on port xyz etc 15:56:36 Ogion [~Ogion@194.Red-81-33-203.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:59 also I attmpted to save an image with a hunchentoot quickloaded (with dependencies) using save lisp and die, then moved it from the xp machine to a win 7 machine - I was able to start the exe and get the repl, and run the hunchentoot:start with an easy-acceptor, but when I try to hit the local port end up with a 404 error for some reason 15:58:23 although I see the request coming through fine in the repl standard-output (where hunchentoot prints the browser info making the request) 16:00:15 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:02:26 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.146] has joined #lisp 16:05:43 ahungry: you might be able to grab the dlls you need from the gtk+3 bundle at http://www.gtk.org/download/win32_contentlist.php 16:05:48 Hmm, I bet that is just due to static dir files missing on the deployed exe, well, that is hopeful news 16:05:56 fortitude: I found them listed there, but in the actual download zip they are not present 16:06:05 figures 16:06:13 I even lookd through old gtk versions of the bundle, closer to the release of the last update for cl-gtk2-gtk 16:06:18 iirc I grabbed them from some mingw32 rpms I found around 16:07:07 what a pain 16:07:17 *ahungry* shakes first at windows 16:07:24 errr s/first/fist 16:09:21 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A69B2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:42 -!- chrisdone [~chrisdone@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has left #lisp 16:11:44 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@66.Red-79-144-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:57 haxx [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #lisp 16:13:57 cgore [~cgore@cgore.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:29 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:14:47 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1181.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:52 p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:16 slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:14 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 16:20:20 ahungry: there's a gtk bundle installer dealy at http://gtk-win.sourceforge.net/home/index.php/Main/Downloads, with that installed the cl-gtk2 demo runs 16:20:59 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:25:36 Is there any sane way to get rid of huge list of exported symbols in package definitions that is hard to manage and expand? 16:26:13 (export foo)\n(defun foo () ...) looks like a solution, but I'd like to hear other suggestions. 16:26:25 -!- haxx [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 16:29:10 MasterJack [~user@95-42-219-141.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 16:29:19 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:53 alexherb1 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-76-46.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:31:50 -!- alexherb1 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-76-46.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:47 brown` [user@nat/google/x-srrhmlqpqzqcesdj] has joined #lisp 16:34:05 Not sure how you'd intend on doing that since there's no sure fire way of automatically figuring out if a symbol should be exported or not. 16:34:23 So you're going to have to declare all these exports manually in some fashion. 16:34:35 -!- cgore [~cgore@cgore.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:34:45 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:35:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:35:21 kpreid_ [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:55 matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:25 I don't want it automatically exported, I want a way to get rid of huge list in one place and export something somewhere next to actual code. This way I always see if something is exported or not and I can export it without opening packages file and reviewing list there first. 16:36:49 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:36:49 -!- kpreid_ is now known as kpreid 16:37:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:15 hitecnologys: just to play devils advocate, how is the consumer of your package supposed to figure out what's exported and what isn't? 16:37:17 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-39-64.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:38:05 hitecnologys: I guess, but I don't see that as an advantage as I then would have to scan through all code files to see what is and isn't exported. 16:38:07 fortitude: I don't really have consumes, but in case I had one, I think it's quite easy to automatically maintain a list of exported symbols. 16:38:23 hitecnologys: Or rather, where it is exported 16:38:24 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:38:33 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-110-134-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:39:22 hitecnologys: of course that requires that your consumer know where you keep your list (personally, packages.lisp is almost always my first stop when I'm looking at a new lib) 16:39:46 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-xcdqsuzxqwnmqedw] has joined #lisp 16:41:20 fortitude: yeah, sure. That's what I do too. I was thinking of some kind of script that would automatically parse all files for special construction like ";;@export" and update packages.lisp. 16:42:13 That all seems like a lot of effort (and extra writing) for not that much of an issue. 16:42:55 It is an issue for me. My export list is disorganized and incomplete because of my poor memory so I'm trying to make machine do this for me. 16:43:01 hitecnologys: what's so hard to maintain about a single defpackage ? 16:43:23 I just add ;;filename.lisp sections into my export list to keep it organized. 16:43:27 *Shinmera* shrugs 16:44:40 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-69-102.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:06 there's also this: http://lisptips.com/post/31040421235/multiple-export-clauses-in-defpackage 16:45:29 Ah, neat. 16:45:38 I might adapt that then instead of the plain comments. 16:45:41 Thanks 16:46:00 haxx [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has joined #lisp 16:47:16 fe[nl]ix: I always forget to add things to it so I have to double-check if I did that or not. That is very annoying and takes lots of time. 16:48:00 fortitude: oh, looks great. 16:49:01 There's also this cl-annot thing. What do you think about it? 16:49:44 You could write an emacs command that checks if the symbol is exported. 16:50:58 I wish I knew elisp that well. Unfortunately, I don't. 16:51:44 the more painful alternative is to refer to symbols the way you expect them to be (pkg:foo if you're expecting it to be external) and let the reader complain when you load your system 16:52:36 Hm. It would be useful if emacs/slime had a highlight or colouring option for exported symbols. 16:53:20 Shinmera: indeed. 16:53:49 fortitude: nah, too much work and I don't like warnings. 16:55:13 hitecnologys: it's an error in sbcl, which is a little more useful 16:55:25 warnings would be a little harder to work with 16:56:03 there's no retry restart for it in any case, so that's not as helpful as I thought 16:56:12 I see. 16:56:56 Maybe one day I may learn elisp to the point of adding that feature to slime or as an extra. 16:57:07 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-68.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:14 alexherb1 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-81-68.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:58:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:59:35 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-211.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:05 -!- jewel [~jewel@197.175.177.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:01:59 fortitude: thanks, i'll bookmark that link and try it later 17:04:08 nipra [~nipra@122.177.238.87] has joined #lisp 17:05:19 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-211.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:37 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:59 -!- w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:58 slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:55 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:20:37 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:20:41 francogrex [~user@9.175-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:21:29 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:22:01 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:23:06 Hi, what is the sbcl ffi equivalent of the cffi foreign-alloc and foreign-funcall-pointer functions? Is there something? 17:26:10 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:44 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Foreign-Dynamic-Allocation and http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Foreign-Function-Calls ? 17:27:50 slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:14 Why not use CFFI though? 17:31:08 -!- codeburg [~codeburg@85.183.24.157] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:32:47 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.159.160] has joined #lisp 17:36:12 So, LispOS mailing list is dead? 17:36:37 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:37:19 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.159.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:37:24 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:37 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.159.160] has joined #lisp 17:41:04 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:31 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:43:07 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.159.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:43:38 BW^- [~Miranda@unaffiliated/bw-/x-2460362] has joined #lisp 17:43:44 what Lisp/Scheme consultancies and businesses now? 17:45:26 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@49.73.144.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:12 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:48:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-110-134-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:48:32 patrickwonders: thanks. I use cffi, but I want only these two functions and I would like to enter the competition so the size of the code matters 17:49:32 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:50:04 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:51:58 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has quit [Quit: Ragequit] 17:53:57 BW^-: protip: there's #scheme for Scheme. This channel is mostly about CL. 17:57:49 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-69-102.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:58:05 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:59:04 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-88-50.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:05 -!- alexherb1 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-81-68.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 18:04:09 francogr` [~user@91.179.218.23] has joined #lisp 18:07:47 -!- francogrex [~user@9.175-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:13:16 Davidbrcz_ [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:54 dvalin [~dvalin@91.229.248.172] has joined #lisp 18:17:13 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 18:19:54 -!- dvalin [~dvalin@91.229.248.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:00 lman` [~user@108.Red-176-83-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:08 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:20:17 -!- BW^- [~Miranda@unaffiliated/bw-/x-2460362] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 18:21:55 -!- lman` [~user@108.Red-176-83-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:39 lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has joined #lisp 18:24:32 is there any way to get Postmodern to use nil for DB nulls rather than :null? 18:27:09 lennier [~lennier@91.210.103.45] has joined #lisp 18:27:35 -!- lennier [~lennier@91.210.103.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:56 *JuanDaugherty* thinks somebody might be a bit OCD. 18:28:51 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:29:57 rockymadden [~rockymadd@unaffiliated/rockymadden] has joined #lisp 18:30:14 resttime [~resttime@c-50-158-65-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:43 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:35:20 alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:35:38 zimerilim [~rett@64.124.28.131] has joined #lisp 18:38:14 lman` [~user@108.Red-176-83-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:20 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:38:23 -!- lman` [~user@108.Red-176-83-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:38:23 lman` [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has joined #lisp 18:38:39 drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:02 davazp [~user@170.Red-83-63-202.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:45 alexherb1 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-81-68.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:41:39 -!- mordocai [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:42:04 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:43:47 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:43:54 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-169-101-15.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 18:44:15 -!- francogr` [~user@91.179.218.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:43 mordocai [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has joined #lisp 18:47:11 -!- zimerilim [~rett@64.124.28.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:47:32 -!- davazp [~user@170.Red-83-63-202.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:53 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:19 ulgen [~esalagaev@92.243.190.94] has joined #lisp 18:51:17 drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:18 vaporatorius [~vaporator@52.Red-88-5-226.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:10 -!- lman` is now known as lman 18:55:42 lman` [~user@108.Red-176-83-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:46 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:55:49 -!- lman` is now known as lman 18:56:05 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:56:05 -!- ulgen [~esalagaev@92.243.190.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:01 eslg [~esalagaev@92.243.190.94] has joined #lisp 18:57:24 hellome [~lua@192.73.239.25] has joined #lisp 18:57:31 -!- eslg is now known as ulgen 18:59:17 -!- MasterJack [~user@95-42-219-141.btc-net.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:58 Sunei [~android@88.Red-83-61-32.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:14 gooploo [6d406520@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.64.101.32] has joined #lisp 19:04:56 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:04:57 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-107-191.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:47 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.5.30] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 19:08:55 Alfr [~Unknown@g225069030.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:10:38 lman` [~user@108.Red-176-83-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:42 -!- lman [~user@108.Red-176-83-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:10:43 -!- lman` is now known as lman 19:10:46 -!- lman [~user@108.Red-176-83-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:10:46 lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has joined #lisp 19:12:49 -!- luis` is now known as luis 19:13:43 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 19:14:35 -!- Sunei [~android@88.Red-83-61-32.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Sunei] 19:15:50 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-13.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:09 ben_m [~ben@chello062178107037.8.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:17:02 lsdf [U2FsdGVkX1@ma.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 19:17:11 KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1181.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:18:59 MasterJack [~unknown@95-42-219-141.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 19:22:31 how would I create a function with sbcl that takes any number of arguments and turns them in to a list of strings `("fixedvalue or nil" "optarg1" "optarg2" ...) ? 19:23:20 how would you turn them into strings? 19:23:29 turn what into strings 19:23:50 like you call (foo 4 'baz) and get ("4" "BAZ")? 19:24:13 eslg [~esalagaev@92.243.190.94] has joined #lisp 19:24:29 -!- ulgen [~esalagaev@92.243.190.94] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:24:38 lsdf: Why do you want a function specific to SBCL? 19:24:54 oGMo: I can give the function arguments as strings, that's all right. Just need something (defun (arg arg2 ...) '("shit" "arg" "arg2")) Just the amount of arguments should be arbitrary 19:24:57 Why not write a Common Lisp function? 19:25:09 the qualification was "in sbcl" not "only sbcl" 19:25:14 lsdf: (defun foo (&rest args) (mapcar #'write-to-string args)) 19:25:15 pjb: nah, it's all right if it's not sbcl, as long as it could work in sbcl 19:25:16 -!- eslg [~esalagaev@92.243.190.94] has quit [Client Quit] 19:25:18 how's that? 19:25:38 lsdf: basically what Bike said 19:25:39 lsdf: sbcl implements the Common Lisp language, so you should learn the Common Lisp language. 19:25:47 just trying to get something running, been away from lisp and do not use it constantly. 19:26:14 Bike: thank you, I'll test. I was experimenting with funcall and map and stuff like that, but I knew that someone could help me out here and save a bit of time 19:26:28 pjb: yeah, thank you. It will take a while though, heheh 19:26:43 pjb: need to be AFK too much... 19:27:16 lsdf: however you're goign to get yelled at if you ask lots of simple "how do i write.." questions, so i highly recommend (re?)reading Practical Common Lisp and possibly others 19:27:47 and that's online and free if you haven't read it 19:28:12 ulgen [~esalagaev@92.243.190.94] has joined #lisp 19:28:55 oGMo: Yeah, I figured I'll irritate a bit, that's why I struggled for a while before entering. Hehe. I know. 19:30:13 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:32:11 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:32:50 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.159.160] has joined #lisp 19:33:44 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:35:09 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:23 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:35:23 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 19:36:57 How do you guys normally license your open source common lisp projects? LGPL? (the franz lisp preamble to the gpl?) If so, do you just include a link to the franz page, or do you include the full gplv2 (or 3) with the preamble in a LICENSE_PREAMBLE.md file or something? 19:37:09 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.159.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:37:24 ahungry_: I prefer MIT/BSD. 19:37:27 I use ther AGPL3. 19:37:54 ahungry_: I believe that less restrictive is more beneficial to all of us. 19:38:05 Nowadays, it's useless to use the GPL if you want to get back sources, when people just run your code on their servers without distributing anythign. 19:38:07 ahungry_: what do you believe? 19:38:36 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.159.160] has joined #lisp 19:38:38 i don't think there's much cost to including a copy of the whole license? 19:39:08 ahungry_: LLGPL or BSD 2 clause 19:39:28 For my 2 games I've been working on, I have released under AGPLv3 (Affero) but I'm not sure if it is possible to includ the preamble with it (or if it is needed for an AGPLv3 to begin with) 19:39:35 ahungry_: GPL for end-product apps, maybe 19:40:03 haven't seend agpl i guess 19:40:23 -!- alexherb1 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-81-68.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 19:40:34 It sounds like the LGPL preamble is a clause on top of gpl2 stating that if you invoke other libs via quicklisp or asdf or whatever, your work is not a derivative until you actually modify some of the pre-existing calls 19:41:01 agpl basically says if you serve the resultant pages the code generates via a service (such as a web page), the source must be available to the site visitors 19:41:08 so it was needed for my 2 games since they are online over the browser 19:41:20 so someone can't copy the game server and improve without pushing the changes back 19:41:29 Just not sure if I should try to tie in LGPL in any way 19:41:39 LGPL is gpl with a dynamic linking exception to clause 5 or 6 or whatever; llgpl is a "but *handwave* in common lisp" 19:41:41 frgo [~user@p5498F7B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:41:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@147.30.99.154] has joined #lisp 19:41:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@147.30.99.154] has quit [Changing host] 19:41:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:42:01 ahungry_: soundsl ike you found what you want then? 19:42:04 Oh yea, LLGPL is what I am thinking of 19:42:33 I think so, I just noticed many CL projects use the lisp preamble (llgpl) from franz via a link to the franz site 19:43:38 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.159.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:43:42 ahungry: most if not all of the code for Apache webserver is MIT/BSD-licensing style. Yet people seem to contribute plenty. 19:43:50 if I distribute a save-lisp-and-die image (exe) which includes some libs such as hunchentoot which I've quickloaded, and someone requests the source code, do I just point them to the HT source, or do I need to pull out a copy of the HT code cached on my local machine? 19:44:44 ahungry_: I think the idea is that people should be able to get an identical running server (to modify themselves) 19:44:50 -!- OldContrarian [~user@h-234-51.a161.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:00 -!- STilda [~kvirc@188.162.166.7] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:45:02 which probably means that you have to hand them your own (modified) version of HT. 19:46:08 nilsi_ [~nilsi@49.73.144.45] has joined #lisp 19:46:37 In this example, the hunchentoot itself isn't modified, only invoked via having been quickloaded and then a call to an easy acceptor + pointing to one of my own functions 19:46:48 lman` [~user@108.Red-176-83-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:52 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:46:56 -!- lman` is now known as lman 19:46:59 -!- lman [~user@108.Red-176-83-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:47:00 lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has joined #lisp 19:49:14 ahungry_, you don't even have to provide a source version of hunchentoot if you distribute a binary with it; as far as I understand its licence. 19:50:40 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@49.73.144.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:51:10 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-160-36.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:51:13 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 19:58:17 Is there a way to print a previously defined function's source code? So that if I have defined (defun foo () (print 3)) I could run something like (print (function-expand 'foo)) and receive "(defun foo () (print 3))"? 19:59:24 -!- ulgen [~esalagaev@92.243.190.94] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:59:58 not generally no 20:00:40 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-13.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:23 clhs f-l-e 20:02:23 function-lambda-expression: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fn_lam.htm 20:02:26 not that it ever works 20:03:37 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:06:02 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exit IRC/Hiberate] 20:06:19 add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-196.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:09:01 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-160-36.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:12:54 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:13:48 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:17:27 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:17:33 alexherb1 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-81-68.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:18:02 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-165.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:57 -!- MasterJack [~unknown@95-42-219-141.btc-net.bg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:21:12 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:04 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:18 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:24:53 foreignFunction1 [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 20:25:01 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 20:25:12 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:30 -!- foreignFunction1 is now known as foreignFunction 20:29:28 Sunei [~android@88.Red-83-61-32.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:09 -!- pmullin [pmullin@nat/ibm/x-uowxedfolazkzmgx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:17 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-70-187.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:05 pmullin [pmullin@nat/ibm/x-qcuovvcdatkbojhz] has joined #lisp 20:32:08 -!- pmullin [pmullin@nat/ibm/x-qcuovvcdatkbojhz] has quit [Client Quit] 20:32:27 pmullin [pmullin@nat/ibm/x-yzhqwehmorkjvcpl] has joined #lisp 20:32:51 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.159.160] has joined #lisp 20:33:05 -!- pmullin [pmullin@nat/ibm/x-yzhqwehmorkjvcpl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:34:11 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-202.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:35:37 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:36:09 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:37:13 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.159.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:37:39 slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:03 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:38:30 lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has joined #lisp 20:41:05 ahungry_: I've toyed with using swank:find-definition-for-thing for finding some of that information. If you come up with something good I would be interested to see it. 20:41:08 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 20:41:13 fridim_ [~fridim@173.231.115.58] has joined #lisp 20:41:13 -!- rockymadden [~rockymadd@unaffiliated/rockymadden] has quit [] 20:43:28 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:47:45 -!- gooploo [6d406520@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.64.101.32] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:47:50 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.238.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:49:54 rockymadden [~rockymadd@unaffiliated/rockymadden] has joined #lisp 20:52:22 drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:07 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:19 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:57:56 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A69B2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:00:18 lman` [~user@188.Red-176-83-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:22 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:00:25 -!- lman` is now known as lman 21:00:29 -!- lman [~user@188.Red-176-83-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:00:29 lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has joined #lisp 21:04:45 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-70-187.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:06:50 -!- rockymadden [~rockymadd@unaffiliated/rockymadden] has quit [] 21:14:31 I seem to be misunderstanding slot-definition-type. The MOP spec reads: "Returns the allocation of slot. This is a type specifier name. This is the defaulted value of the :name initialization argument that was associated with the slot definition metaobject during initialization." 21:15:20 all three of those sentences seem to contradict each other. is this a mistake in AMOP? 21:16:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:13 enn: looks like a bad copy/pasto. 21:17:21 yes, it seems like it 21:17:53 in any case, in sbcl it seems to be returning t for every slotdef I give it. I'm trying to get back a type specifier (as specified in the :type initarg). Is there a better way to be doing this? 21:18:23 wokko [~wokko@CPE-121-223-134-154.lns1.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:19:21 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 21:20:50 jewel [~jewel@197.111.223.250] has joined #lisp 21:21:12 nm, it works with basic classes, must be something about the metaclass I'm working with that is confusing things 21:23:46 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:24:13 zickzackv [~faot@p4FC97681.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:26:47 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5000:6420:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:33 Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has joined #lisp 21:32:47 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.159.160] has joined #lisp 21:33:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-202.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:03 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:37:31 -!- ustunozgur 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[Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:59:48 add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-196.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 22:59:54 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 23:01:05 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A69B2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:03:05 -!- haxx [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:04:23 haxx [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has joined #lisp 23:04:33 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:08 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:59 is there a quicklisp library for string search operations? 23:14:34 cneira: kmp sorta stuff? 23:15:17 -!- haxx [~Rob@69.77.176.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:23:22 -!- Sunei [~android@88.Red-83-61-32.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:27:04 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@173.231.115.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.229.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:35:57 cneira: there are some regex libraries; what do you want to do? 23:37:36 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5000:6420:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 23:37:44 wbooze [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-128-236.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:37:55 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:38:05 -!- oleo is now known as Guest12800 23:38:08 jasom, I'll look at some regex libraries in quicklisp 23:38:23 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZZzZ] 23:38:45 -!- Guest12800 [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-160-36.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:39:17 -!- wbooze is now known as oleo 23:43:47 has someone used clawk ? 23:47:36 haxx [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #lisp 23:48:08 <_death> I once hacked a snobol thingy... <400 lines 23:48:27 nilsi_ [~nilsi@49.73.144.45] has joined #lisp 23:48:54 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 23:49:15 <_death> <250, if you ignore tests 23:49:28 sohail [~sohail@69-196-139-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:49:29 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-139-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:49:30 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:50:23 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-157-59.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:53:01 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.195.129] has joined #lisp 23:53:22 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@49.73.144.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:54:14 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:06 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1181.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:09 Speaking of tests 00:00:36 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@52.Red-88-5-226.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:40 Where does the name "FiveAM" come from? :P 00:02:45 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5000:6420:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:38 <_death> maybe it was written at around that time of day? ;) 00:07:44 Not just intended to keep you up that long? :) 00:09:14 stanislav [~stanislav@bl16-78-182.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 00:09:30 <_death> that was my first thought, but then again, doesn't that happen anyway 00:11:11 Optimistic thinking: it is so useful that when the project lead wakes you up to make unit tests for someone else's code at 5AM, you can do it without a sweat? 00:11:31 Perhaps you should just quit your job in that case, but regardless... 00:12:48 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:13:53 <_death> speaking of jobs, gotta go to one in a few.. sleepytime 00:14:19 sleeping ;) 00:16:22 -!- rockymadden [~rockymadd@unaffiliated/rockymadden] has quit [] 00:18:45 -!- bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:19:32 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:21:27 flame_ 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quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25:43 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 01:26:08 cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:53 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:30:33 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:36:29 Aha! The instructions in the slime user manual for making sbcl "load faster" cause Quicklisp to fail to quickload hunchentoot because it doesn't require sb-int. 01:36:32 w|t [~ok@unaffiliated/wt/x-8228070] has joined #lisp 01:37:00 hunchentoot uses sb-int? 01:37:23 No, something else does 01:38:15 sb-rotate-byte 01:38:39 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:38:50 well i doubt your sbcl image could not have sb-int 01:38:55 *shrug* 01:39:03 sb-rotate-byte is a contrib, though 01:39:14 misread, then 01:39:25 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:39:37 Don't know how to REQUIRE sb-rotate-byte. [Condition of type SB-INT:EXTENSION-FAILURE] 01:40:08 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@91.231.81.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40:20 Bike: To be honest, that little hack to make swank load faster doesn't even seem noticeable to me. Does it really matter? :P 01:40:39 Any time I might have saved I would have wasted... blinking. Or rubbing my eyes. 01:41:00 i remember i complained about the slime startup time when i was first here, but then i had to use eclipse and the gimp 01:42:11 mathrick [~mathrick@91.231.81.3] has joined #lisp 01:42:37 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@91.231.81.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:48 Bike: Regardless, why does the core I use from SAVE-LISP-AND-DIE not have sb-rotate-byte, but the default load of sbcl does? 01:43:28 I don't think that the default load has sb-rotate-byte, it's just that the default load knows how to find the contrib to load and the saved one doesn't. 01:43:32 i don't know how to fix it, sorry. 01:44:02 well, what's (asdf:find-system :sb-rotate-byte) give you in the images? 01:44:25 mathrick [~mathrick@91.231.81.3] has joined #lisp 01:48:37 # 01:48:46 in both? 01:49:19 nilsi_ [~nilsi@49.73.144.45] has joined #lisp 01:49:26 Bike: Yup. 01:49:58 I don't care much about solving this. I'm just going to abstain from using the saved image :P 01:50:22 oh, well i'm sort of interested now, but alright. 01:50:46 Bike: Well, I'm all ears if you really want to figure this out. 01:51:33 kristof, you could just load sb-rotate-byte before you save the image, i guess. 01:51:41 what's in sb-ext:*module-provider-functions*? 01:52:15 well, i guess it boils down to module-provide-contrib and $SB_HOME somehow 01:52:18 Alfr: That won't solve a problem in the future if I need another contrib module 01:52:44 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:52:52 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:20 (ASDF/OPERATE:MODULE-PROVIDE-ASDF SB-IMPL::MODULE-PROVIDE-CONTRIB) 01:53:47 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@49.73.144.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:55:07 Bike: thoughts 01:55:11 kristof, can you provide a link to those instructions? 01:55:29 http://www.common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Loading-Swank-faster.html#Loading-Swank-faster 01:56:07 well, the it has to do with how module-provide-contrib works, i guess. 01:56:18 in other words, a giant *SHRUG* 01:56:23 kinda 01:56:40 Bike: If you come up with something in the future, ping me here and I'd be glad to tackle this again :) 01:56:48 then we can submit a patch to the slime manual :P 01:56:54 in the meantime, I have things to do 01:57:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:28 kristof, without integrating swank into the image requiring sb-rotate-byte works for me from the saved image. 02:11:23 harish__ [harish@nat/redhat/x-psdqszolzptmhisd] has joined #lisp 02:12:01 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:16:19 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:16:41 TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 02:18:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@124.64.107.131] has 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-!- mshroyer_ [~mshroyer@legolas.paleogene.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 03:38:41 mshroyer [~mshroyer@legolas.paleogene.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:28 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:56 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 03:46:01 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48:44 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:49:20 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 03:57:32 -!- w|t [~ok@unaffiliated/wt/x-8228070] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:00:24 w|t [~ok@unaffiliated/wt/x-8228070] has joined #lisp 04:02:23 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 04:02:38 ok, so I should use lispbuilder-sdl to create my cl-opengl window, right? 04:02:47 cl-glut doesn't really seem to like me 04:03:45 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has 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05:19:33 alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:19:57 I am trying (md5:md5sum-string "ok") and receiving a vector of values, but not a 32 char string as would be generated from the md5sum CLI tool 05:20:17 oh nevermind, must be printing in decimal is all 05:20:23 its a vector of 8 values 05:20:32 err 16 05:20:33 hah 05:20:55 zxq9 [~ceverett@125.199.207.150] has joined #lisp 05:23:40 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-223-107-191.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:26:14 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:38 p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:54 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-107-191.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:15 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:35:23 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:37:42 fp0 [~davebelan@S0106b8a386573a5e.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:17 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@75.144.20.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:40:44 -!- fp0 [~davebelan@S0106b8a386573a5e.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:36 fp0 [~davebelan@S0106b8a386573a5e.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:37 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 05:43:19 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:43:53 -!- effy [~x@123.116.60.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:43:58 effy [~x@123.116.60.65] has joined #lisp 05:44:15 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:44:30 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:44:30 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 05:46:05 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-202.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:49:21 antonv [5daba1b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 05:50:39 when in SBCL i do (require 'sb-bsd-sockets) it tries to load .fasl files of the sb-bsd-socket module with ASDF and fails, because don't find them in the ~/.cache/common-lisp/.../ directory 05:50:51 why it behaves like this? 05:51:30 failed to find the TRUENAME of /home/testgrid/.cache/common-lisp/sbcl-1.1.11.54-19d37e3-linux-x86/home/testgrid/lisps/sbcl-bin-git/lib/sbcl/sb-bsd-sockets/constants.lisp-temp: No such file or directory 05:52:41 antonv: iirc when I met that problem it was because sb-bsd-sockets (or whatever contrib) had failed to compile when sbcl was built 05:53:28 -!- haxx [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:53:37 (that was years ago) 05:53:52 kpreid: can SBCL build complete successfully with some contribs failed? 05:54:16 think so, not sure, things may have changed, don't take my word for it 05:54:31 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:55:36 kpreid: ok, thanks 05:55:47 I suspect I have different reason 05:55:49 The build 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seconds] 12:10:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-110-134-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:11:20 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-110-134-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:12:31 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:13:48 nipra [~nipra@122.177.232.50] has joined #lisp 12:15:50 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p4FC97681.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:16:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-110-134-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:21:15 -!- wokko [~wokko@CPE-121-223-134-154.lns1.bat.bigpond.net.au] has left #lisp 12:23:37 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-165.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:23:38 yuqian [~user@110.17.170.59] has joined #lisp 12:27:17 Happy New Year everyone! I want to know how to avoid to input "left-quote" when using CommonLisp. Since there is no left-quote key in my keyboard. 12:27:54 do you mean ` (backquote) or ' (quote)? I don't know about left-quote 12:28:01 ` 12:28:06 I guess left-quote would be  maybe 12:28:08 AltGr + ? 12:28:13 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:28:45 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-28.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:28:46 yuqian: AltGr + ? 12:29:02 jewel [~jewel@41.49.198.142] has joined #lisp 12:29:42 Dim, it's backquote. Sorry, I'm from a country not say English as mother tongue. 12:30:09 yeah no problem with that, just trying to setup a common vocabulary 12:30:21 english is a foreign language for me too 12:30:53 yuqian: your keyboard has no ` key? Oh god. What keyborad is this? 12:31:07 Oh,I see.````` 12:31:24 yuqian: In Schemes you could say (QASIQUOTE ). In CL I'm afraid you have to type the backquote in directly. 12:32:05 Excuse me for my bothering. I thought it's some key near ' 12:32:11 yuqian: Most OS-es will allow you to adjust your keyboard layout without much problem, though. It should be especially easy on most Linux flavours. 12:32:31 yuqian: On a standard US keyboard it's the key left of 1 (`, ~). 12:32:41 *to the left 12:32:54 On most keyboard layouts it's this key. 12:32:58 Thank you all(`'_'`) 12:33:17 hitecnologys: I don't think it's most, but certainly many :) 12:34:21 antoszka: yeah, probably. 12:36:07 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 12:36:21 /Dim, is your characters set GB2312? 12:37:00 I would think it's utf8 12:37:53 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-157-59.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:37:58 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-157-59.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:38:15 But certainly not ASCII. 12:38:19 Most certainly UTF-8. 12:39:03 Are you from CJK? 12:39:36 Nope. Russia it is. 12:40:37 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 12:42:30 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 12:42:32 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 12:42:33 Has anyone read the Dragon book (Compilers: Principles, Techniques and Tools)? 12:42:50 I've seen mixed comments regarding it 12:43:32 \quit 12:43:36 -!- yuqian [~user@110.17.170.59] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:44:21 Chinese spy? 12:47:55 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-65-111.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:51:15 przl [~przlrkt@p57923C05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:51:39 Guthur`` [~user@ppp118-210-76-156.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:19 frgo_ [~frgo@p5498E5E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:53:00 Guthur``: I've read the first edition, and I have the second one. 12:53:51 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54:18 -!- Guthur` [~user@ppp118-210-76-156.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:54:19 pjb: what are you opinions of the second edition? 12:55:00 I'm working through LiSP at the moment and was considering something to get after finishing that to give a deeper understanding of compilation 12:55:08 -!- frgo [~frgo@p5498F7B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:57:46 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57923C05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:57:52 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A69B2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:58:32 przl [~przlrkt@p57923C05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:01:03 -!- mordocai [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:04:24 Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has joined #lisp 13:05:43 zickzackv [~faot@p4FC97681.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:10:41 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:11:02 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 13:11:20 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-81-68.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:11:41 Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has joined #lisp 13:11:55 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-81-68.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:12:14 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-81-68.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:14:56 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-65-111.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 13:16:19 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 13:23:40 -!- akersof [~akersof@unaffiliated/zoroaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:27:05 wchun [~wchun@81-233-226-189-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 13:27:10 Guthur, it's a standard text, but I feel it's a bit dated now 13:28:36 Guthur, there's a lot of theory on lexing and parsing which might not be useful if you're planning to write any of those 13:28:47 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.65.200] has joined #lisp 13:29:48 if you're not planning to write your own lexer and parser 13:30:27 cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:57 yeah, i was not so interested in the lexing and parsing aspects 13:35:19 [1]cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:57 -!- cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:36:57 -!- [1]cneira is now known as cneira 13:39:21 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-pajwmysmkonglxhm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:39 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:19 -!- Guthur`` [~user@ppp118-210-76-156.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:27 OldContrarian [~user@h-234-51.a161.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 13:45:37 Good afternoon! 13:47:41 -!- cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:49:10 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:53:51 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:56:16 pierpa [~user@host198-93-dynamic.55-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:00:04 bitonic` [~user@ppp-158-169.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 14:00:24 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:02:00 ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has joined #lisp 14:16:59 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A69B2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:19:25 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-110-134-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:22:54 ivan-kanis [~user@srv3.cloud.tilaa.com] has joined #lisp 14:24:45 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:24:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-110-134-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:26:04 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:26:07 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-110-134-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:28:01 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:28:06 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57923C05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:28:18 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:29:32 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:29:32 -!- kbtr [~kbtr@li198-73.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:29:32 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@91.231.81.3] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:29:32 -!- mal___ [mal@2001:41d0:1:66c4::1] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:29:32 -!- lupine [~lupine@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:30:53 przl [~przlrkt@p57923C05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:32:50 lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has joined #lisp 14:35:10 sohail [~sohail@69-196-139-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:35:10 kbtr [~kbtr@li198-73.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:35:10 mathrick [~mathrick@91.231.81.3] has joined #lisp 14:35:10 mal___ [mal@2001:41d0:1:66c4::1] has joined #lisp 14:35:10 lupine [~lupine@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has joined #lisp 14:36:38 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-70-187.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:37:01 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-139-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:37:13 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:37:57 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:38:23 akersof [~akersof@nor75-3-82-226-36-138.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:31 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:42:12 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 14:42:38 -!- OldContrarian [~user@h-234-51.a161.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:53 OldContrarian [~user@h-234-51.a161.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 14:49:03 mmm, sbcl: /lib64/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.14' not found (required by sbcl)... ideas? 14:49:04 msmith [~msmit297@23.31.147.162] has joined #lisp 14:50:43 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:54:06 ok I'm in for recompiling sbcl it seems 14:56:42 -!- lupine [~lupine@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 14:57:03 lupine [~lupine@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has joined #lisp 15:00:38 dim: yes, I got that problem too 15:00:56 I had to go back to an old enough version that would compile. 15:01:10 yeah 15:01:12 http://www.mikeivanov.com/post/66510551125/installing-sbcl-1-1-on-rhel-centos-systems 15:01:15 going from that 15:01:56 I had to go back to 1.0.23 15:02:44 -!- bitonic` [~user@ppp-158-169.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:08 bitonic` [~user@ppp-158-169.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 15:04:31 http://sourceforge.net/p/sbcl/mailman/message/31378744/ 15:04:45 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A69B2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:04:57 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:06:03 SBCL 1.0.38-3.el6 is what's available in CentOS 6.4 here 15:06:14 following the instructions on the blog post, at least 15:07:04 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:07:12 I found that 1.0.23 was the last one of the compiled binaries that would run on Debian 7.1. I was able to use it to compile the latest in the repo. 15:07:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-110-134-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:10:27 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A69B2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:11:06 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-185.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:27 -!- igorw [~igorw@unaffiliated/igorw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:12:27 igorw [~igorw@li559-253.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:12:27 -!- igorw [~igorw@li559-253.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:12:27 igorw [~igorw@unaffiliated/igorw] has joined #lisp 15:13:35 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-81-68.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 15:13:53 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-81-68.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:14:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@41.49.198.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:15:07 well I'm asked to figure out CentOS builds for a customer now 15:15:23 I don't like CentOS too much and basically don't know it 15:15:29 going to try and build an RPM. 15:16:40 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 15:19:15 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:19:19 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 15:19:38 Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has joined #lisp 15:19:53 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 15:20:35 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20:45 Guthur: well, I'm a sucker for compilation books. I like both editions of the Dragon book. Sure, it doesn't contain the latest algorithm published in the PhD theses of this fall. But you know where to find them if you want to read them! 15:21:04 Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has joined #lisp 15:21:58 pjb: There are two editions of the Dragon book? Hmm, I wonder which one I have? 15:23:19 mordocai [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has joined #lisp 15:24:51 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 15:25:50 The second edition has a chapter about garbage collection. 15:26:24 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:26:31 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 15:28:11 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:30:45 -!- eg0 [~akcst@68-189-15-131.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:31:26 yeah the second ed came out like 10 yrs ago didn't it? 15:32:13 I liked Holub's lesser known "Compiler design in C". Very practical and I used in paid work. 15:34:15 maybe opposite of the dragon book in a way 15:34:35 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:34:53 contained "Occs" and "Llama" variants on yacc and lex 15:35:09 *contains, although it's out of print 15:35:53 had a nice visual parser for debugging grammars 15:36:36 Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has joined #lisp 15:36:52 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:09 alexherbo21 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has joined #lisp 15:37:12 -!- alexherbo21 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:37:18 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:39:26 hi all, quick question for the floor. I have input coming in to a socket server from telnet and I'm trying to remove the nil characters (^M). I've tried trimming on #\Space, #\Nul and (char-code #\Nul) and no luck. any suggestions? 15:40:39 ^M is a #\Return character I think 15:40:52 what maps "^M" to nil? 15:41:20 nil is a base lisp implementation object 15:41:24 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:42:15 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:42:20 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:03 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 15:43:09 lman` [~user@38.Red-176-83-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:17 -!- lman` is now known as lman 15:43:22 -!- lman [~user@38.Red-176-83-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:43:22 lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has joined #lisp 15:43:41 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 15:44:00 Is there a better way to turn the results of md5 package functions from a vector of decimal octets to a lowercase hex string than using (format nil "~{~2,'0x~}" (coerce md5-vector 'list)) ? 15:45:36 for instance, a standard md5 function in lots of other languages gives and md5 similar to "098f6bcd4621d373cade4e832627b4f6" (using the word "dog"), while the md5 package gives #(6 216 14 176 197 11 73 165 9 180 159 36 36 232 200 5) 15:46:37 -!- antonv [5daba1b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.171.161.176] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:46:37 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:48:47 msmith, maybe do a standard line ending transformation on the input 15:48:59 sounds like it's windows 15:48:59 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 15:49:57 17WAAN7GE [~ioffeira@91.210.100.107] has joined #lisp 15:50:05 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 15:50:06 akenisuto [~akenisuto@HSI-KBW-37-209-74-126.hsi15.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:52:06 what makes you think that ^M turns into nil? 15:53:03 -!- Ethan- 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If your vector is really long (so the vector -> list overhead is a performance issue) then you can use with-output-to-string and loop or map to iterate over the vector 16:25:39 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:56 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 16:26:07 Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has joined #lisp 16:28:00 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:28:05 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 16:28:17 -!- bitonic` [~user@ppp-158-169.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:29:39 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:31:45 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 16:31:58 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 16:32:10 Mathieu [mlegrand@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:caf4] has joined #lisp 16:35:52 ahungry: what makes you think format is bad to format hexadecimal strings? 16:36:32 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57923C05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:38:18 Is "object" in any way a reserved word in Lisp? Is it a bad idea to use it as the name of a struct? 16:38:45 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:39:34 OldContrarian: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/X_Alph_O.htm 16:39:45 jasom: Thanks. 16:41:41 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 16:41:44 Not at all. There is no reserved "word" in CL. 16:42:14 At the very most, symbols in the COMMON-LISP package and in the KEYWORD packages have some restrictions. 16:42:26 But you can always use symbols in your own packages. 16:42:30 whaddabout nil and t? 16:42:43 car, cdr? 16:42:44 Though IMO you shouldn't shadow them without good reason 16:42:44 zimerilim [~rett@64.124.28.131] has joined #lisp 16:42:48 There may not formally be reserved words in Lisp, but it would still be a bad idea to call my struct "defstruct". 16:42:52 JuanDaugherty: those are properly written cl:nil and cl:t 16:43:02 JuanDaugherty: mypackage:t and mypackage:nil are okay 16:43:13 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 16:43:18 >: 16:43:21 (shadow '(nil t car cdr)) (defvar nil 42) 16:43:38 Hi all. Quick question regarding log4cl: How to set pattern for log format? (log:... )? TIA! 16:43:41 OldContrarian: hardly. 16:43:44 -!- Khisanth is now known as Guest56837 16:43:47 But ok, thanks for answering my question. 16:43:56 Try it: (defstruct defstruct name fields) 16:44:03 See it: (macroexpand '(defstruct defstruct name fields)) 16:44:06 pjb: Oh yes it would definitely be a bad idea, because it would confuse me. 16:44:11 -!- msmith [~msmit297@23.31.147.162] has left #lisp 16:44:21 It may not confuse Lisp, but it would me. 16:44:21 That's another question. 16:44:23 How many namespaces are there in common-lisp? 5ish? 16:44:30 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:44:32 Any number you want. 16:44:35 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 16:44:38 fp0 [~davebelan@S0106b8a386573a5e.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:41 lisp-2 is really lisp- 16:44:42 *JuanDaugherty* would never do that kinda proper. 16:45:14 *jasom* uses variables named LIST all the time 16:46:16 pkg:nil,car,cdr, is sick unless there were some reason to override sumplace 16:46:43 jasom: see this example: http://www.lispworks.com/ ; where I define a namespace for states. (state ) is used like (function ). 16:47:02 pjb: I meant in the actuall specification though 16:47:37 I should have defined (defmacro defstate (name lambda-list &body body) `(defun ,name ,lambda-list ,@body)) too and used defstate instead of defun in that example. 16:48:02 jasom: about 10 or 12. 16:48:07 pjb: since it's a programmable programming language, you can have as many or as few as you want obviously (IIRC I saw a readtable to make functions and variables in the same namespace) 16:48:28 PuercoPope [PuercoPop@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:c11b] has joined #lisp 16:50:08 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:11 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@1.187.16.252] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:09 s/sick/Sheliak/ 16:52:51 Off course you can do whatever you want; it's not always a good idea. (defun (setf foo) (x) (print x)) (funcall #'(setf foo) 3) 16:54:12 There are good reasons to be able to print from a setf function, and there are good reasons to be able to funcall a setf function, but using it as an obfuscated form of printing is stupid 16:54:58 IIRC clisp lets you do ((setf foo) 3) but that's definitely non-portable 16:56:15 -!- foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:16 -!- dyreshark [dyreshark@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedb:3628] has quit [Quit: I just dont know what went wrong!] 16:56:16 -!- PuercoPop [PuercoPop@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:c11b] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:19 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:56:28 dyreshark [dyreshark@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedb:3628] has joined #lisp 16:56:30 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedb:a448] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:31 -!- ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:37 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-rwcxslcpxigcmcko] has joined #lisp 16:56:40 -!- PuercoPope is now known as PuercoPop 16:57:42 TDog_ [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has joined #lisp 16:57:47 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedb:a448] has joined #lisp 16:59:06 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 16:59:21 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:59:22 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 17:00:08 kdas_ [~kdas@106.66.102.199] has joined #lisp 17:04:37 (setf (foo) 3) 17:08:04 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 17:08:22 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:52 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@106.66.102.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:08:55 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:17 pjb: I just wanted to make sure there was not a superior way to do it is all (thanks jasom also) 17:10:26 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 17:12:31 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:16:17 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #lisp 17:17:33 fredmorcos [~fredmorco@89.137.106.243] has joined #lisp 17:18:54 DeadTrickster [~dead@62.122.188.214] has joined #lisp 17:19:16 ahungry: of course you should wrap it in a functional abstraction and forget about it. 17:20:25 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:26:22 Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has joined #lisp 17:28:22 Is there a difference between (defstruct object id) and (defstruct (object id))? 17:31:47 -!- lman [~user@unaffiliated/lman] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:32:20 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:32:48 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:12 Corvidiu1 [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has joined #lisp 17:33:17 Yep: the second will generate an error. 17:33:45 You can put junk in with the name, but it has to be meaningful junk. 17:33:58 *OldContrarian* scratches his head. 17:35:16 -!- Corvidiu1 [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has quit [Client Quit] 17:35:31 There are various options you can pass with the name: something like (defstruct (foo (:conc-name bar))), for instance 17:35:32 Then why is it that (defstruct monster (health (randval 10))) works (in Land of Lisp)? 17:36:06 przl [~przlrkt@p57923C05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:36:58 I think you have made a fairly simple error with parentheses. 17:37:16 It would not surprise me in the least. 17:37:24 (defstruct foo (id form)), ok. (defstruct (foo form)), not ok. 17:37:45 Oh, right, I see now, thanks 17:37:56 Then I rephrase my original question: 17:38:04 -!- echo-area [~user@114.254.103.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:14 You can actually have more complicated forms in place of the bare symbol foo there: but never mind that for now. 17:38:17 Is there a difference between (defstruct object (id)) and (defstruct object id)? 17:39:10 Ah. 17:39:15 I don't think so, no. 17:39:53 Ok, thanks! 17:40:37 echo-area [~user@114.254.103.29] has joined #lisp 17:43:28 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:56 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 17:44:46 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:02 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:45:05 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@91.231.81.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:45:15 mathrick [~mathrick@91.231.81.3] has joined #lisp 17:45:36 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:36 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 17:46:40 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:00 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 17:47:31 rockymadden [~rockymadd@unaffiliated/rockymadden] has joined #lisp 17:49:02 -!- fredmorcos [~fredmorco@89.137.106.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:49:11 slarti [~anonymous@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:54 fredmorcos [~fredmorco@89.137.106.243] has joined #lisp 17:50:31 Why is the sbcl binary generated from save-lisp-and-die so large? 35MB seems to be the smallest I can get, but the entire slitaz gnu/linux distro is only 30MB, and a standalone gnu prolog binary is only 8MB in size 17:50:41 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:50:59 Is the CL spec / sbcl implementation really that expansive? 17:51:22 It contains an optimising compiler, among other things. 17:51:36 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:52:26 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:52:28 danlentz_ [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:56:35 ahungry_: You can enable core compression if you have a recent enough sbcl with zlib built in 17:57:13 jewel [~jewel@197.109.25.140] has joined #lisp 18:01:07 jasom: Thanks, just saw that on Xach's page after doing some more googling 18:01:14 I wonder if the windows sbcl binary includes it 18:01:24 -!- fredmorcos [~fredmorco@89.137.106.243] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:01:45 7zipping the exe does take it down to around 10MB which isn't terribly bad I guess 18:01:53 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@65.129.142.54] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310]] 18:02:29 I probably wouldn't have more than 1000 downloads on it, so even out of my webserver vs a file server, I'd only eat up 10GB or so 18:02:36 hugodunc` [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:02:40 nilsi_ [~nilsi@49.73.144.45] has joined #lisp 18:03:03 -!- danlentz_ [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:03:37 drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:58 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 18:04:11 -!- jewel [~jewel@197.109.25.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:04:30 -!- hugoduncan [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:07:13 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@49.73.144.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:07:23 sohail [~sohail@69-196-139-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:24 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-139-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:07:24 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 18:07:43 [1]cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:54 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-107-191.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:57 ikki [~ikki@187.208.159.170] has joined #lisp 18:09:55 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 18:10:51 -!- cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:10:51 -!- [1]cneira is now known as cneira 18:13:25 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57923C05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:33 przl [~przlrkt@p57923C05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:13:51 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:15:05 -!- akenisuto [~akenisuto@HSI-KBW-37-209-74-126.hsi15.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Bye] 18:16:03 -!- w|t [~ok@unaffiliated/wt/x-8228070] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:17:46 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:35 w|t [~ok@unaffiliated/wt/x-8228070] has joined #lisp 18:21:31 zickzackv [~faot@p4FC97681.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:23:07 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:23:15 KingNato_ [~isildur@c-e9eee253.012-31-73746f43.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:23:24 -!- KingNato [~isildur@c-e9eee253.012-31-73746f43.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:35 -!- Guest56837 [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:23:41 -!- stokachu [~stokachu@ubuntu/member/stokachu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:23:52 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 18:24:02 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:08 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:11 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:24:57 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:26:59 stokachu [~stokachu@cypherbook.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:25 slyrus [~chatzilla@udp047553uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:11 fredmorcos [~fredmorco@89.137.106.243] has joined #lisp 18:32:35 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B193A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:54 looking at Postmodern's :insert-into, I don't see any way to insert multiple rows at once. I'm aware of the bulk-copy facility but I'd rather use insert ... amd I missing a way to do this? 18:35:17 -!- echo-area [~user@114.254.103.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:53 echo-area [~user@114.254.103.29] has joined #lisp 18:35:58 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:36:05 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-218-145.dhcp.ccmn.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:20 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@52.Red-88-5-226.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 18:37:15 -!- akersof [~akersof@nor75-3-82-226-36-138.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:40:40 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 18:41:03 -!- fredmorcos [~fredmorco@89.137.106.243] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:41:37 -!- iwilcox [~iwilcox@unaffiliated/iwilcox] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:44:14 drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:17 Guest58113 [~iwilcox@87.114.5.212] has 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[~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:44:21 MoALTz_ [~no@host81-153-176-220.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:52 akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas1-kanata16-1279595928.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:47:39 -!- MoALTz [~no@host81-153-176-220.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:47:48 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@ip24-250-59-12.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:31 nilsi_ [~nilsi@49.73.144.45] has joined #lisp 22:05:39 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:05:59 -!- prip_ [~foo@host198-121-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:06:34 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:54 sohail [~sohail@69-196-139-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:07:55 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-139-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing 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Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has joined #lisp 22:27:50 lupine [~lupine@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has joined #lisp 22:29:08 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has quit [Client Quit] 22:29:38 -!- ulgen_ [~esalagaev@92.243.190.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:29:41 Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has joined #lisp 22:29:58 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:30:06 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:30:15 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:02 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33:04 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-159-119.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:18 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36:43 -!- pecg [~pecg@unaffiliated/pecg] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 22:36:49 What is the reasoning/history behind LET in Lisp's design? 22:38:12 it falls out of lambdas pretty easily, but i don't remember if that was mccarthy's thinking 22:38:56 -!- fp0 [~davebelan@S0106b8a386573a5e.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:38:58 hey aeth 22:39:03 hi 22:39:07 i'm going to garbage collect you if you ask that question again 22:39:08 fp0_ [~davebelan@S0106b8a386573a5e.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:37 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:41:04 jacksonn [~cgiirc@fantasy.ircgate.it] has joined #lisp 22:42:01 -!- jacksonn [~cgiirc@fantasy.ircgate.it] has quit [Client Quit] 22:42:31 jacksonn [~cgiirc@fantasy.ircgate.it] has joined #lisp 22:42:34 I probably didn't phrase it properly. 22:42:49 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 22:43:04 it's also pretty common in math, like "let R be the reals in the following discussion" 22:44:09 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 22:45:51 given (1 2 3) (4 5 6) how can I get ((1 4) (1 5) (1 6) (2 4) (2 5) (2 6) (3 4) (3 5) (3 6)) ? 22:46:07 rockymadden [~rockymadd@unaffiliated/rockymadden] has joined #lisp 22:46:17 what would be idiomatic way of writing that? nested loops? 22:47:05 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 22:47:16 <_death> alexandria:map-product 22:47:39 ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has joined #lisp 22:48:05 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:48:51 thanks 22:49:06 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:49:57 cool, this did it. (alexandria:map-product (lambda (x y) (list x y)) '(1 2 3) '(4 5 6)) 22:50:25 or (alexandria:map-product 'list '(1 2 3) '(4 5 6)) 22:52:33 haxx [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #lisp 22:56:15 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:57:29 -!- cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:57:30 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 22:57:41 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:57:41 Corvidium [~cosman246@187.153.65.20] has joined #lisp 22:59:21 -!- catechu [~saketh@c-71-230-251-235.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:00:00 cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:01 antonv [5daba1b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 23:12:51 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:13:27 ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has joined #lisp 23:15:20 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:17:28 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 23:17:46 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:18:15 ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has joined #lisp 23:18:48 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-63-206.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 23:20:57 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:26:23 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 23:27:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:30:13 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:32:30 -!- cory786 [~cory@adsl-75-22-101-128.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:33 Denommus [~yaaic@201-8-182-117.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:32:33 -!- Denommus [~yaaic@201-8-182-117.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 23:32:33 Denommus [~yaaic@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 23:32:47 ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has joined #lisp 23:38:17 killerboy [~mateusz@staticline-31-183-33-22.toya.net.pl] has joined #lisp 23:39:44 cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:26 joe9 [~user@ip24-255-250-24.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:42 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:44:03 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.93.106] has joined #lisp 23:45:26 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:45:47 Bike: Well, it looks like early Lisp actually used PROG followed by SETQ where one might expect to see LET today, e.g. in the 1974 Maclisp manual which doesn't seem to include LET. Also looking through some of the early stuff in http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/maclisp_family/ 23:46:52 Wasn't early Lisp dynamically scoped? 23:47:01 ok then. 23:47:51 Denommus: Yes, I was thinking that it had to do with scope but apparently emacs lisp has LET and is dynamically scoped. 23:48:19 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has joined #lisp 23:48:30 do you guyth thpeak with lithpth offline? 23:48:32 you can have dynamically scoped let fine 23:48:33 pecg [~pecg@unaffiliated/pecg] has joined #lisp 23:48:46 neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 23:48:57 Right. It's being used here. https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Dynamic-Binding.html 23:49:34 I'm guessing at this point that LET was either introduced or came into common usage in the mid to late 1970s... 23:51:01 -!- gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:51:29 aeth: modern Emacs Lisp has lexical scope 23:51:43 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 23:52:19 Another thing I found interesting, when going through some really old source code, is the use of GO, which apparently is still in Common Lisp. http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/s_go.htm 23:52:47 a lot of lisp 1.5 code is very algol-y as they would put it for some reason, yes 23:52:54 Although GO seems to work differently. 23:57:25 Denommus: Not by default if I'm not mistaken? 23:58:34 -!- joe9 [~user@ip24-255-250-24.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]