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joined #lisp 13:37:03 brown` [user@nat/google/x-fiftkqhksymmwfhy] has joined #lisp 13:37:38 PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-187.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 13:38:52 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-zennxeemgypsrhnx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:39:55 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-yijmnqijdsmnxccc] has joined #lisp 13:41:17 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 13:42:15 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 13:43:41 [SLB]` [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 13:43:55 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 13:45:42 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-yijmnqijdsmnxccc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:46:36 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-iwkakjjdahsijgzj] has joined #lisp 13:46:56 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Quit: am0c] 13:47:32 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 13:49:58 Lex|Luthor [~kvirc@c-76-99-148-107.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:59 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:52:24 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-iwkakjjdahsijgzj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:53:25 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-tudufxwpafjrdril] has joined #lisp 13:54:10 edwin editor opens existing files as blank with 0 bytes, does anyone know what could be the cause? i'm using edwin in mit-gnu scheme 13:54:50 Lex|Luthor: Sorry, wrong group. This one's for Common Lisp, not Scheme. 13:55:44 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 13:56:28 I mean't the question to be about edwin 13:58:07 this isn't an edwin channel either. 13:59:36 fair enough, i guess i couldn't ask an emacs type question in a community that explicitly recommends the usage of emacs for, say, sbcl, but thanks anyway 13:59:59 You could ask a slime question! 14:00:26 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 14:02:34 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:37 thanks 14:03:37 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:44 -!- Lex|Luthor [~kvirc@c-76-99-148-107.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has left #lisp 14:04:02 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:28 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:25 -!- Artheist [~quassel@195.68.4.98] has quit [Remote host 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pjb pavelpenev guyal__ mtd nforgerit c_arenz hiteki urandom__ Obfuscate nlpplz SHUPFS passionke PuercoPop mvilleneuve mrSpec varjag Alice3 prxq punee doomlord theos gensym benny angavrilov CoverSlide macrobat dfox KingsKnighted teggi kpreid specbot minion kennyd AntiSpamMeta ans kindergip peterhil asciilifeform b0ef bjorkintosh rpg ianmcorvidae ltbarcly2 Tristam nooy kleppari guaqua ecraven cic_ REPLeffect 16:11:49 -!- names: ezakimak _Mon_Ouie_ |3b| strobegen Tordek Praise adx sweet_kid samograd phadthai j_king sellout findiggle karswell jjkola_work billstclair impulse superflit Fade rvchangue mrcarrot Demosthenex cods mdh arrsim ozzloy Ralith antifuchs Tehnix sykopomp drewc nowhere_man _veer Euthy axion frodef christoph_debian s0ber psykoTRON prip_ foom spiderweb BrianRice joast renard_ [SLB] mal_ wyan kanru turbolent mcsontos hlavaty basso easye bzzbzz cmm quazimodo 16:11:49 -!- names: araujo terjesb dRbiG The_third_man jeekl cyphase sbryant jaaso kanru` __class__ Sgeo gendl mathrick_ brendyn ivan\ ``Erik YokYok jasom rabite Natch abeaumont df_ ZombieChicken oconnore dmiles mindCrime __main__ wormphle1m schoppenhauer Nshag cpt_nemo fe[nl]ix fmu angus ragnul jsnell Posterdati egn SHODAN Xach quasisane Khisanth Codynyx nightfly_ gf3 JPeterson les otwieracz hohum_ cnl BeLucid_ dan64 smithzv arbscht tali713 balle elliottcable jrockway 16:11:49 -!- names: dlowe bps p_l mstevens kirin` brown` foo303_ acieroid tessier ski ArmyOfBruce setheus vhost- cmatei Patzy antoszka luis p_l|backup stokachu aoh scharan wuehli theBlackDragon BlastHardcheese finnrobi _root_ xristos qsun jayne barik gemelen copec housel _tca sytse Oddity drdo Tanami howeyc veemon joshe Buglouse ace4016 PECCU em pchrist sshirokov herbieB ivan nicdev sabra guther ered billitch mouflon Amadiro TristamWrk surrounder pkhuong postfuturist 16:11:49 -!- names: cryptic asedeno_work wccoder srcerer Krystof felipe xaxisx DrForr derrida Jabberwockey clog pok cross_ hpd sepisult1um _schulte_ aerique cYmen Yahovah_ CrazyEddy mikaelj zbigniew tdmackey hugod samebchase ineiros eMBee dmbaturin yan_ ft Adeon pareidolia literal hiredman wchun basho spacefrogg^ clop newcup felideon astopholos_ tvaalen_ MikeSeth Yamazaki-kun daimrod tomaw cmbntr_ ramus flip214 rotty oGMo nitro_idiot_ tychoish aajmakin gabot galdor Mandus 16:11:49 -!- names: H4ns gilez freiksenet rdd konaya yroeht Viaken redline6561 Subfusc boyscared robonyankitty yeltzooo dsp_ rfgpfeiffer slava_ Borbus adeht sigjuice froggey dim fasta johs tkd nuba reactormonk z0d scode 16:12:31 -!- passionke [~Administr@58.100.49.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:57 Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:43 -!- am0c_ is now known as am0c 16:13:50 H4ns: hi 16:14:43 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 16:14:45 H4ns: I'm reading "Tutorial On Good Lisp Programing Style", at page 60 there's your statements 16:14:47 :) 16:16:09 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:18:35 H4ns: i think you'll be pleased to learn the raspi userland code has just been BSD'd by broadcom 16:21:14 -!- bitonic [~user@host81-134-116-166.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:22:15 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.153.175] has joined #lisp 16:23:21 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@67-163.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:43 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:17 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:01 Posterdati: i'm not following? 16:34:06 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:34:07 axion: i've seen that, very nice 16:34:35 H4ns: the things you told me yesterday... 16:34:46 Posterdati: i'm not claiming to be original :) 16:34:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:35:02 H4ns: no not this 16:35:03 Posterdati: all i know i got from books, so there you go, read more 16:35:15 drewc: herep 16:35:18 ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 16:35:34 H4ns: definitely yes, culture is on books 16:36:04 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 16:38:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.45.244] has joined #lisp 16:38:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.45.244] has quit [Changing host] 16:38:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:38:20 Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has joined #lisp 16:40:43 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 16:40:58 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-yqouqoyesqccadif] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:47:19 -!- Fare [~fare@FLH1Acq098.kyt.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:53:53 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:50 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.153.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:55:59 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 16:56:41 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:57:00 paul0 [~user@200.146.124.98.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:58:47 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:05:56 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:07:05 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 17:07:32 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:08:38 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 17:09:16 oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:20 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:12:48 lmj` [~lmj`@c-71-192-48-177.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:42 clhs says that the count-form in dotimes should produce an integer, but it doesn't list any exceptional situations. Implementations differ on whether a non-integer is an error. 17:13:43 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for says that the count-form in dotimes should produce an integer, but it doesn't list any exceptional situations. Implementations differ on whether a non-integer is an error.. 17:14:11 *Xach* groans 17:17:21 Is it non-conforming to signal an error when no exceptional situations are given? 17:17:55 (I'm writing a macro that's intended to behave as much like dotimes as possible.) 17:18:50 it's unspecified what happens if the count form doesn't produce an integer, so I don't see how signalling an error would conflict with that 17:19:09 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:19:18 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-245-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:42 code relying on such an error being signaled wouldn't be conformant, though, I don't think. or at least it would be unportable. 17:20:57 bitonic [~user@5e0f8472.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:08 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:13 am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 17:22:15 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:23:42 Yes that's what I was thinking, barring some absolute rule regarding the stated exceptional situations. 17:24:54 lmj`: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/01_db.htm I think this is what you're looking for. 17:25:23 -!- bitonic [~user@5e0f8472.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:28:04 gridaphobe [~user@128.54.43.17] has joined #lisp 17:28:23 Harag [~phil@dsl-244-155-30.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:28:57 -!- am0c_ is now known as am0c 17:30:10 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@37-145-137-124.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:31:14 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Quit: am0c] 17:31:31 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 17:31:32 -!- PuffTheMagic [u3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mvrtpluxrizkjamr] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:33:46 -!- DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:33:53 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:19 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:34:33 DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has joined #lisp 17:34:43 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:02 -!- hiteki [~user@120.29.100.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:36 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-194-188.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:38:02 -!- vince- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 17:38:03 -!- ltbarcly2 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-50.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:38:20 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:45:34 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 17:50:03 Is there a recognized name for this macro? 17:50:06 (unnamed (*x*) ...) =expand=> (let ((#:x11 *x*)) (lambda () (let ((*x* #:x11)) ...))) 17:50:26 lol ? 17:50:44 let over lamdba over let..... 17:51:02 not sure I understand the intent. 17:51:16 lmj`: Usually you'd just do (let ((*x* *x*)) ...) 17:51:32 oop style closure...... 17:51:39 Something to do with creating a closure that preserves the CURRENT value of a special variable. 17:52:55 the thing returned by unnamed is executed in another thread, so creating a closure and rebinding specials is necessary 17:53:19 bitonic [~user@5e0f8472.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 17:53:44 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:54:03 So, the problem that I have with this macro idea is that it restricts you to functions without arguments. 17:54:42 The other problem is that it's clearly trying to solve a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. 17:58:44 -!- Amadiro [jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:00:54 Inside of CLISP, how do I show the source of a function I have created earlier? 18:01:48 mrcarrot: typical way is to open the file in which it is defined 18:01:54 nyef: dynamic closures are sometimes useful, e.g. with make-thread. 18:01:58 If you use Emacs and slime, that is M-. 18:02:32 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:03:11 Xach: I am not having any file yet, just playing directly in clisp. But okay, I will have to create a file 18:03:32 pkhuong: Sure, but it should be a sufficiently rare occasion that there's no need for a macro to do it. 18:03:41 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 18:03:41 jewel [~jewel@105-236-120-96.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:03:58 mrcarrot: That's the easiest way to get the source of a function back. 18:04:09 The main question that comes to mind is "what on earth are you doing with so much state wrapped up in specials?" 18:04:18 nyef: the goal is to execute the closure in another thread, so the arguments would need to be passed somehow. In any case rebinding specials is sometimes needed, but it's an open question whether it warrants a macro. 18:04:27 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:04:46 Fair enough, and my position is that it shouldn't warrant a macro. 18:04:50 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:05:10 Amadiro [jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no] has joined #lisp 18:07:46 I begun to read "Land of Lisp" and the very first function there, I can not get to work: 18:07:49 (defun guess-my-number () (ash (+ *small* *big*) -1)) 18:08:20 When I try to run guess-my-number I get this: *** - SYSTEM::READ-EVAL-PRINT: variable GUESS-MY-NUMBER has no value 18:08:35 (guess-my-number) ? 18:08:36 Both *small* and *big* are defined and working 18:08:36 mrcarrot: to call a function, put it in parens. 18:08:51 Xach: Ah, I feel stupid. 18:08:53 mrcarrot: a bare guess-my-number attempts to evaluate a variable by that name. 18:09:09 mrcarrot: practice makes perfect! 18:09:11 I have to say, though, if that's the very first example in Land of Lisp, I'm rather disinclined to purchase a copy. 18:09:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:10:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:12:17 nyef: well it depends on whether a given thread pool has a dedicated purpose with "permanent" special bindings, or if the pool is shared for different tasks. 18:13:19 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:13:22 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 18:13:59 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.153.175] has joined #lisp 18:14:28 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:14:34 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:15:30 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 18:16:31 What is really the difference between defvar, defparameter and setf. To me it looks like they all do the very same. 18:17:09 no 18:17:18 The difference between defvar and defparameter is that defvar doesn't set the value if the symbol is bound. 18:17:33 SETF is assignment, not variable definition. 18:17:33 mrcarrot: defvar and defparameter establish special variables. setf changes existing variables (or places) 18:17:35 defvar is initialize once, defparameter is initialize as much as needed 18:17:44 as often* 18:17:47 meh 18:18:29 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@z69-94-206-168.ips.direcpath.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:18:30 I tested them all on uninitialized variable names, and they all worked. 18:19:08 That is why I got confused. 18:20:36 Setf of an undefined variable, btw, is technically undefined behavior. 18:21:41 Okay! 18:21:44 Thanks! 18:21:55 mrcarrot: to get back at the source of a function you defined at the REPL, if you've not done anything special to prepare it, you can only scroll back. 18:22:03 defvar is "initialize once" or "don't initialize". 18:22:12 mrcarrot: experimenting to see what works will only tell you what happens to work, not what's guaranteed to work. 18:22:29 CL makes a lot of guarantees about various things that can be useful to rely on. 18:22:38 mrcarrot: otherwise, you can use dribble to save the REPL interactions to a file, but you must do that first. You can call dribble from ~/.clisprc.lisp 18:23:02 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:23:21 mrcarrot: finally, you may use ibcl, have a look at http://informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/ibcl/index.html 18:23:59 mrcarrot: but the usual way to do it is to use emacs+slime, so all you type is in an emacs buffer, and you only have to save that buffer with C-x C-s. 18:24:00 It can also tell you what's not guaranteed to work (: 18:25:21 REEEEPL 18:26:50 Thanks! 18:28:10 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:03 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:28 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:37:03 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:37:46 The more I look at "land of lisp", the less I like it. I think I will pick up another book. 18:38:12 go with lol then 18:38:15 Practical Common Lisp is pretty good 18:38:23 Paradigms of AI Programming too 18:38:32 I was thinking to try that one exactly :) 18:38:42 hmmm, yep maybe better for a starter...... 18:38:51 Somebody already recommended it to me, but I thought "Land of Lisp" looks funnier. 18:39:44 it's for younger people....not so opinionated ones..... 18:40:00 and LoL is tho much higher level....... 18:40:26 i mean let over lambda ofc 18:40:56 wbooze: i'd not recommend that book to anyone, let alone to anyone who has not read on lisp 18:41:07 for mediocre to advanced ones..... 18:41:19 H4ns: true 18:41:32 H4ns: i thought he was onto macros! 18:41:35 Lol was originally A lisp web development library and if I was not sent a free land of lisp, autographed, by the author ...I would complain 18:41:35 Practical Common Lisp is also missing one important thing: Exercises! 18:41:36 mrcarrot: Land of Lisp is more in vein of 8bit basic games 18:42:07 But I will try to manage without, then if Practical Common Lisp is the way to go 18:42:13 let over lambda, otoh, is the exact opposite of a good book. 18:42:16 mrcarrot: for yourself, I'd recommend going through PCL, then looking at Land of Lisp for creating funnier exercises :) 18:42:40 as the old saying goes - there's no silver bullet 18:43:04 Is there any university or school using PCL? I mean, there probably exists exercise sets somewhere that is fitting to each chapter. 18:43:48 drewc: personally i enjoyed it, dunno why it's scorned upon....... 18:43:57 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 18:44:17 mrcarrot: I only heard of certain companies using it. University kinds, if they have a rare good lisp-based course, seem to go with SICP then some extras. 18:44:34 OTOH, Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation was, afaik, an academic textbook 18:44:37 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:03 PAIP definitely is one, but I recommend only going for it after you went through PCL 18:45:13 wbooze: and that is the reason why I will not recommend it ... it may be enjoyable if you do not know what is going on. For those that do, it is quite scornful.\ 18:45:34 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:43 drewc: :D 18:45:46 lol 18:46:00 my has a PAIP that he bought at MIT co-op in 2007 ... and I got an autograph for that as well! 18:46:12 behind the stage star wars ? 18:46:21 oh man....... 18:46:25 errr... /me 18:46:46 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-244-155-30.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 18:46:50 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 18:47:20 - 18:47:56 *Xach* is sorry he never got his weinreb book signed :( 18:48:10 behind the stage star wars? I have never seen that on stage!! The last thing I saw that was a movie turning into a play was the rocky horror picture show done live. 18:48:29 Just goes to show, you should always pursue book autographs as though it were the author's last day 18:48:37 Xach: :( 18:48:42 drewc: like this :)? http://antoszka.pl/PAIP.jpg 18:48:46 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:49:06 *Xach* was too shy to ask steele to sign CLTL2 18:49:23 I learned my lesson, though, and got Gabriel to sign Patterns of Software... 18:49:59 Xach: you should keep a listing of my code printed with you, so next time we meet I may sign it, you never know who'll benext to die. 18:50:09 my copy of AMOP is signed as well ... in fact ... most of my lisp books are autographed.. 18:50:22 mine not....... 18:50:35 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:08 That said, printing all the code in quicklisp alone, you couldn't carry it or read it. 18:51:25 RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-65-128-115-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:51:27 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 18:51:50 maybe you could get him to sign a microfilm 18:52:25 looking through my book collection ... it seems that 7 out of 10 of my lisp books are signed by the author ... and the onlu other auotgraph I have is the signed 'chapman complete book of knots" 18:52:53 typical lisp/sailor dual-class 18:53:03 (-: 18:53:08 antoszka: exactly! 18:53:16 :) 18:53:21 user123abc [~sally@128.237.205.81] has joined #lisp 18:53:48 that is me in a nutshell ... lisp/sailer, old and new school for both 18:54:00 sailor* 18:54:25 *drewc* 's not a speller in his morning 18:54:52 spellor :-) 18:56:14 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.62.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:43 I should try to write get-lexical-env for CL+Cltl2 18:57:37 cltl2 doesn't let you get a list of bindings, it just lets you query a particular binding if you already know its name. 18:57:37 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for doesn't let you get a list of bindings, it just lets you query a particular binding if you already know its name.. 18:57:46 thanks, specbot! 18:58:00 always eager to please, that one. 18:58:57 Back to the lolol macro, the reason I mentioned it is to discourage making a new thread pool just to get a special binding. Possibly, if the macro was in the lparallel API then users (especially new ones) would have a clearer path. 18:59:18 (lolol (*x*) ...) =expand=> (let ((#:x11 *x*)) (lambda () (let ((*x* #:x11)) ...))) 18:59:27 though it needs a name 19:00:01 drewc | Lol was originally A lisp web development library <-- it's not anymore? 19:00:46 snearch [~snearch@f053014208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:20 felideon: well, it still in on cl-net ... but if I am really lucky, the owner of cl-net will delete it... or the author of lisp-on-lines itself ... regardless ... 19:01:59 ah\ 19:02:20 (yes,I am talking about myself, to myself) 19:02:43 :D 19:03:06 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:03:15 how usable is ftw these days? 19:03:19 i see it on https://github.com/drewc/ftw 19:03:29 lisp on lines is a good idea, it is just the implementation that is not so great. 19:03:39 ah interesting. 19:04:44 ftw, I am not using at all these days either ... but, the monads.lisp and the main dispatcher monad, well, they are still used, and FTW will come back eventually 19:07:32 -!- ngz [~user@194.85.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:08:43 (and, for that matter, one of my clients runs a business that is based on an app that I wrote using lol, so I have to use lol every day .. and rofl as well) 19:09:08 What would be a good name for lolol? dynamic-closure, special-closure, dynamic-thunk 19:12:32 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.60.163] has joined #lisp 19:13:07 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.96] has joined #lisp 19:14:05 lmj`: how about contextl:dlet* ? 19:16:29 and, say, capture-dynamic-environment ... 19:18:25 (and, say, that fact the contextl has already dealt with the dynamic closure thing very well so what is it that you want/desire?) 19:18:40 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:05 hiteki [~user@120.29.100.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:50 (and, say, the fact that functions, slot values, slot existing at all, class definitions etc can all be dynamcally scoped using contextl) 19:22:18 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 19:23:22 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 19:23:32 drewc: Thanks for the reference. This is just about a single task executing in a dynamic environment, so nothing more than a simple macro, if at all. 19:24:03 (and this is the point where I mention how much difficulties I have had with SPECIAL, and closures/continuation at that, even after knowing and using CAPTURE-DYNAMIC-ENVIRONMENT, I way way way prefer the interface) 19:24:06 -!- DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:24:42 DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has joined #lisp 19:24:50 lmj`: well, what exactly are you trying to do? 19:25:31 drewc: check logs 19:26:19 drewc: I have to use laughable code at work, too. 19:26:41 drewc: goal is to discourage lparallel users from creating a new thread pool in order to get a special binding. 19:29:20 ok, looking through the logs .. 19:32:33 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-226-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:33:19 -!- user123abc [~sally@128.237.205.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:34:13 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:32 "capture" is a good term, though it may overstate what lolol does. It's more of a snapshot. 19:34:35 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:36:45 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-120-96.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:39:45 Is it possible to upgrade asdf on sbcl? the quicklisp asdf-utils needs asdf 2.23 which seems to be very new 19:40:01 well, i do not see it doing anything but binding a special via a lexical... 19:40:07 jasom: that changed with the latest quicklisp dist update 19:40:15 jasom: try (ql:update-dist "quicklisp") to get it 19:40:21 Xach: thanks 19:40:49 jasom: please let me know if it helps. i was troubled by that problem and i hope it is fixed. 19:41:35 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 19:41:57 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 19:42:04 Xach: so far every problem I've had with quicklisp was either already fixed (and I hadn't done an update-dist) or was "will be fixed in a day or two" 19:42:21 and that fixed it! 19:42:27 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:42:38 fast solutions! [to easy problems] 19:42:56 rme [~rme@50.43.149.69] has joined #lisp 19:43:09 Xach: that's actually a good motto for quicklisp; it fixes the easy problems automatically so I can focus on the not so easy problems :) 09:54:42 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 09:54:42 09:54:42 -!- names: ccl-logbot holycow renard_ karswell jtza8 Atomsk dunib phax tcr mrcarrot ehu Joreji kilon nforgerit wormphlegm ferada add^_ eataix trebor_dki ArmyOfBruce AntiSpamMeta urandom__ ivan-kanis theplanet^2 loke_erc hilbert Beetny justinmcp mrSpec m7w punee ineiros paolo_m prxq schaueho hkBst mvilleneuve piko_ xan_ attila_lendvai mishoo tali713 cdidd angavrilov kushal mathrick Tanami leo2007 sykopomp Codynyx agumonkey ramkrsna billstclair maxm Euthy cmatei 09:54:42 -!- names: quasisane aoh teggi neoesque Oddity tessier Natch CrazyEddy kpreid ivan\ macrobat billitch Jasko2 Jeaye herbieB superflit ``Erik Nisstyre arrsim _Mon_Ouie_ tomaw brandonz yeltzooo Khisanth ISF kuzary slyrus redline6561 copec rdd wchun kcj Forty-3 adx Kvakz rdqfdx mindCrime sellout42 enymo bobbysmith007 kennyd nicdev acieroid stokachu axion gilez elkng Nshag hlavaty [SLB] _veer moore33 ezakimak jeekl ianmcorvidae sbryant sshirokov beaumonta foom jrockway 09:54:42 -!- names: ivan cryptic strobegen ered s0ber teiresias em p_nathan yan_ Ralith vsync CampinSam christoph_debian Quadrescence yroeht nowhereman cmm- housel pchrist ahoops RenJuan cic_ p8m phrixos jsmonkey Demosthenex theos prip_ jdz varjag pavelpenev mcsontos RiskyBlit Yamazaki-kun kanru` ZombieChicken hiro3 theBlackDragon pjb-v luis derrida clog cross_ hpd samebchase scharan foo303 bps jaaso Tehnix ozzloy j_king |3b| REPLeffect Tristam Obfuscate lemoinem cibs rking 09:54:42 -!- names: rvirding cataska naryl koisoke Fade Buglouse djinni` hugod The_third_man joast _schulte_ ecraven pok dfox SeanTAllen vert2 oconnore les DrForr xaxisx Jabberwockey _tca gemelen barik jayne qsun xristos _root_ finnrobi araujo ams JPeterson __main__ dlowe tdmackey hopohopo mikaelj kleppari NimeshNeema lide fmu easye guyal__ DrPete dRbiG aajmakin literal_ peterhil cyphase mtd sweet_kid sysop_fb spacefrogg^ z0d Gurragchaa varjagg robot-beethoven Amadiro ASau 09:54:42 -!- names: madnificent limetree ans kindergip asciilifeform guaqua Tordek phadthai jjkola_work rvchangue mdh antifuchs drewc frodef mal_ kanru turbolent terjesb __class__ brendyn YokYok jasom rabite df_ schoppenhauer cpt_nemo @fe[nl]ix jsnell egn SHODAN nightfly_ gf3 otwieracz hohum_ BeLucid_ dan64 smithzv arbscht elliottcable p_l mstevens kirin` ski vhost- antoszka wuehli sytse veemon joshe PECCU guther mouflon surrounder pkhuong postfuturist asedeno_work wccoder 09:54:42 -!- names: dmbaturin ft Adeon pareidolia basho clop newcup felideon astopholos_ tvaalen_ MikeSeth daimrod cmbntr_ johs tkd nuba reactormonk scode dim froggey sigjuice adeht Borbus slava_ rfgpfeiffer dsp_ robonyankitty boyscared Subfusc Viaken konaya freiksenet H4ns Mandus galdor gabot tychoish nitro_idiot_ oGMo rotty flip214 ramus impulse cods p_l|backup BlastHardcheese gkeith_lt Posterdati setheus Patzy setmeaway CoverSlide MoALTz drdo sepisult1um aerique cYmen 09:54:42 -!- names: felipe Praise fasta Odin- hiyosi zbigniew bzzbzz Krystof 09:55:05 holycow: because 1/ is not a function, most probobly. 09:55:15 1+ is part of the common lisp language, 1/ isn ot. 09:55:19 holycow: you can define your 1/ function if you want 09:55:26 oh. oh! 09:55:33 (defun 1/ (n) (/ 1 n)) 09:55:34 holycow: There is another function called 1- too 09:55:35 viola! 09:55:48 indeed! 09:55:53 holycow: try (describe '1+) 09:55:58 okay was not expecting 1+ and 1- to be functions 09:56:03 let me try that 09:56:14 (describe) was the best command I learned yesterday :) 09:57:01 wow. okay, (describe) is so useful. never knew about that. 09:57:02 kids ... 09:57:03 thank you kindly! 09:57:58 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57:58 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:17 mrcarrot: what do you mean manual work about splitting windows? 09:58:23 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:34 isn't it hit a shortcut and it splits it in half? where is the manual work happening? 09:59:21 just curious what you are trying to get working, i've been following a few stumpwm posts on the mailing list recently and this sounds interesting. 09:59:36 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:03 holycow: In xmonad, when I open a new window, it will not cover anything earlier open. It will automatically tile it together with the other windows. Stumpwm required you to press ctrl-t s (or S) to split the frame. Then when you are ready, you need again to remove the frame, to get all space in use again. All those extra keypresses takes time for something that can be dealt with automatically. 10:00:13 holycow: (defun |isn't it de fun what can be in the name, even the ; !| () 1) 10:01:19 holycow: Look at 1+ and 1- as ++ and -- in C. 10:01:20 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:01:28 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:01:40 mrcarrot: oh! hm... i can see how that can be useful. that should be easy to automate. you should be able to re-purpose the split option and then run the + function afterwards to equalize the frames. no idea how to send an app to the new frame thought. i'd be curious to see what you come up with! 10:01:45 :) 10:01:46 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 10:02:05 mrcarrot: oh! right. okay got it now. 10:02:30 I am curious to test clfswm to see if it happens to have this feature. 10:02:42 drewc: well the regular syntax of lisp makes these sorts of things stand out 10:03:23 mrcarrot: that's wrong, INCF and DECF would be the equivalents of those. 10:03:29 sorrry, what sort of things .. the syntax for symbols themselves? 10:03:45 drewc: that is what i meant, yeah. 10:03:51 jdz: Okay! I am the newbie here! 10:05:16 mrcarrot: yeah, apparently; you also have the typical newbie willingness to teach others, too. 10:06:09 holycow: (intern "~`!@#$%^&*()-_\|{}[];':/?.>,<") 10:06:21 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:08:09 jdz: What is the difference between 1+ and INCF? 10:08:23 mrcarrot: have you checked the hyperspec? 10:08:26 my favorite thing when learning lisp syntax was that it is common, and defined, and easily changed 10:08:29 mrcarrot: check the manual. 10:08:37 mrcarrot: (describe '1+) 10:09:01 ams: I am at moment in front of another computer... 10:09:46 mrcarrot: hyperspec. 10:09:58 clhs 1+ 10:10:09 no bots... 10:10:43 mrcarrot: l1sp.org/cl/incf 10:11:06 yikes, the bots are not here, and probably went down when I had to reboot common-lisp.net ... 10:11:31 I restarted lisppaste, but have not idea how to restart the bots. 10:12:06 someone said that bots are banned here ... go figure. 10:12:55 fiveop [~fiveop@188-195-197-131-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:13:41 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 10:14:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:16:28 Now I have read the manual pages kindly linked to by jdz. I still think (1+ i) is the equivalent of i++;. (incf i) seems to be able to do an arbitrary increment, not just by 1. For example (incf i 4) would be i+=4; in C 10:16:37 Please explain! 10:17:41 mrcarrot: did you read something more than arglists? 10:17:51 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:17:54 jdz: Yes 10:18:25 Ah, now I know what you talk about. It is where it is stored, that is the important thing. 10:18:39 Got it! 10:19:16 "in place" for (incf i) 10:19:25 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@188-195-197-131-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 10:19:43 fiveop [~fiveop@188-195-197-131-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:20:34 mrcarrot: also consider (incf (gethash some-key some-hash-table)) 10:21:02 1+ in cl is nowhere close to ++ in C. 10:21:15 ams: mrcarrot already established tha. 10:21:15 t 10:21:22 jdz: he seems still confused. 10:21:43 mrcarrot, (1+ x) ==> x + 1, (incf x) ==> x++ 10:22:01 (a reasonable first order approximation) 10:22:23 Quadrescence: actually, (incf x) would be ++x 10:22:32 now, wwhat would ++x be! :-) 10:22:37 oops, I always forget what ++x and x++ return 10:22:48 :) 10:23:03 (i actually have x++ and ++x macros) 10:23:29 I like (incf (gethash some-key some-hash-table 0)) 10:23:39 ams: link to code or did not happen! 10:24:08 jdz: ~/lisp/misc.lisp 10:24:19 ams: you're so funny. 10:24:37 mrcarrot: you should be able to make stumpwm dynamic, if you'd want to. and it'd be appreciated by some (cough me cough) 10:24:40 can't see anybody else smiling in here 10:24:41 post-incf is just a macro for (prog1 x (incf x)), with all your once-only junk added in 10:24:51 madnificent: hehe 10:25:37 (though you have to be careful to avoid multiple macro expansions of X) 10:25:58 nod 10:26:55 madnificent: Do you have any such configuration file uploaded somewhere. I asked about it in #stumpwm and got as answer that I would need to write a lot of code for it. 10:27:36 holycow: just to clarify (1+ foo) isn't like ++foo in the sence that the latter actually sets the value, so ++foo is like (setf foo (1+ foo)), whereas (1+ foo) is like (1 + foo) in C. 10:28:22 mrcarrot: no, i haven't done it either. and yes, i'd reccon it'd be some coding, but i'd assume there were hooks in place for what to do when a window is created (or the hooks shouldn't be hard to add otherwise) 10:28:22 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:41 mrcarrot: i don't know how well versed you are in common lisp 10:28:46 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:46 thank you for the clarification. i have been watching the conversation. gracias. 10:29:08 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@188-195-197-131-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 10:29:11 madnificent, what is (rotatef a b c d) in C? 10:29:31 madnificent: I am a newbie, learning some lisp at the moment, and wanted to have a wm in lisp to occasionally play a bit with as I am advancing. 10:29:51 Quadrescence: woah, i haven't coded C in years. how about you execute it in the repl and see what it does here. it may not be so trivial in C :) 10:30:00 :) 10:30:20 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:31:21 mrcarrot: i found stumpwm to be good, but to be especially good once i got to know common lisp better. and that took me a while (but it's worth the hassle, i promise). however, you have *new-window-hook*, which you could use for your initial placement and datastructure configuration, from then on you'd have to build something to do the layouting and to maniputale it. so you'd be building a datastructure for each of the w 10:31:30 mrcarrot: at #stumpwm they may have had better insights 10:33:04 thanks for the help. nite. 10:33:05 -!- holycow [~holycow@69.172.160.27] has left #lisp 10:33:38 madnificent: I am nowhere near that in skills at the moment, I was just hoping to have a working setup I somehow like and then do small gradual changes to get it perfect for me. 10:33:55 ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:32 mrcarrot: it might help you scripted out how you'd want it to work. there's always the small chance that someone can't help but implement it due to some sort of compulsive behavior. 10:37:01 Quadrescence: it isn't that hard in C, 10:37:57 madnificent: I found an email that somebody sent to their list, with a good description, but no response so I guess there is no interest for such among the developers. 10:38:09 ams: then write it and show it to him, i'm the one that doesn't know the shortest/cleanest/idiomatic way to do it in C :) (but i don't care) 10:38:20 mrcarrot: link? 10:39:32 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 10:39:36 madnificent: http://www.mail-archive.com/stumpwm-devel@nongnu.org/msg00188.html 10:41:32 madnificent: see privmsg 10:42:34 madnificent: doing it for varargs is left as an exercise for the reader. 10:43:16 madnificent: can be noted that this is exactly what sbcl does for rotatef. 10:43:24 ams: you should privmsf it to Quadrescence, i don't need C :) 10:44:18 madnificent: i'm quite sure Quadrescence knows how to do it, and the question was rethorical. 10:44:21 (and i think the variable arguments is the exercise, which i'd do with a for loop, which isn't that much code, but i don't know what's built into C for making it better :)) 10:44:24 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 10:44:24 ;) 10:44:44 ok 10:44:57 well, i think your code works ams, but that's about as far is my interest goes :) 10:45:03 thanks though 10:45:07 superflit_ [~superflit@65-128-38-137.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:33 mrcarrot: thanks 10:47:06 -!- superflit [~superflit@63-225-246-63.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:47:06 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 10:49:36 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-29-79.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:50:57 mrcarrot: that's just the standard layout for xmonad, right? 10:51:35 mrcarrot: also, look around, i thought someone did something of the likes in the past, perhaps in the contrib 10:52:11 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 10:54:08 madnificent: Yes, that is the standard layout in both dwm and xmonad. 10:55:30 trigen [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fb:26:221c:2bd6:7949] has joined #lisp 10:55:55 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:56:36 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 10:58:36 -!- hilbert [~Hilbert@7-111-204-62-static.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:00:37 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:02:55 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:03:06 -!- tdmackey [~tdmackey@booleanhaiku.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:03:06 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:03:08 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 11:03:12 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:03:27 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:03:39 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:03:46 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 11:03:51 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:03:56 -!- postfuturist [~postfutur@stevegoss.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:04:05 -!- felideon [~felideon@184.170.255.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:04:22 phadthai [mmondor@206.248.143.74] has joined #lisp 11:04:33 paul0 [~paulo@187.112.67.22] has joined #lisp 11:04:37 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 11:04:42 felideon [~felideon@184.170.255.36] has joined #lisp 11:04:43 tdmackey [~tdmackey@booleanhaiku.com] has joined #lisp 11:05:15 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:07:22 postfuturist [~postfutur@stevegoss.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 11:07:49 vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has joined #lisp 11:10:18 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 11:11:29 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 11:11:40 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:13:41 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:10 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:17:11 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:17:14 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 11:18:32 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:19:23 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:21:03 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:21:04 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:22 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:43 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 11:23:35 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:25:11 hilbert [~Hilbert@adsl-178-39-146-39.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 11:28:41 CrazyWoods [~CrazyWood@61.154.68.212] has joined #lisp 11:32:01 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:32:09 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.215] has joined #lisp 11:33:52 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:37:41 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 11:38:42 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 11:40:00 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:41:26 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:26 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 11:46:32 I simply can not get clfswm to work at all. I installed it through quicklisp and added this line to .xsession: 11:46:40 exec sbcl --eval "(asdf-utilities:load-system 'clfswm)" --eval "(clfswm:main)" 11:47:13 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 11:47:16 When I run those same commands at REPL, I get it to start, but it of course then complains that I already have a wm running. 11:48:31 mrcarrot: then stop the other WM, duh 11:49:04 jdz: That is not the point, the point is that I want to get it to start automatically 11:49:36 I just pointed out this with repl, that indeed those functions exists, as it is able to complain about already running wm. 11:50:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:50:56 davyzhu [~user@114.91.123.114] has joined #lisp 11:51:27 q 11:51:27 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51:34 -!- davyzhu [~user@114.91.123.114] has left #lisp 11:51:52 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:21 mrcarrot: might be worth using buildapp to build an image with clfswm loaded 11:52:21 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 11:52:45 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 11:52:45 that way it'll start faster and you can exec it like a normal executable 11:53:22 *ams* dreams of the lisp machine times where one would hae one single instance of lisp running. 11:54:07 ams: then don't start any additional instances of lisp, duh 11:54:12 phrixos: there is a script for doing that with clfswm 11:54:38 jdz: i want my lisp instance to run on everyones machine, where everyone lives in my universe! 11:55:17 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.181] has joined #lisp 11:55:24 ams: all you have to do is state the benefits of doing so, and then watch people streaming to you. 11:56:00 jdz: they would be able to be close to me! 11:56:03 jeez.. 11:56:05 back to coding. 11:57:17 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:57:47 jdz: for trying out, first boot emacs in your exec command. then boot clfswm from there and see if that works. if it doesn't, you'll get some reasonable debugging output. 11:58:14 jdz: i had to hack a few things to get it working locally 11:58:28 madnificent: mr. carrot is over ----> there 11:59:05 *mrcarrot* is waving! 11:59:12 That was a good idea! 11:59:28 Artheist [~quassel@cac94-2-82-66-238-128.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:04 jdz: woops, sorry. 12:03:46 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:06:30 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:07:13 bitonic [~user@dyn903-184.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:09:10 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 12:09:44 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 12:10:20 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:11:01 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:12:34 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:36 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn903-184.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:55 bitonic [~user@dyn903-184.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:13:44 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 12:14:04 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:14:08 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 12:16:00 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:56 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 12:20:02 I have a (loop for i ... do ... (cond 1 2 3... condition 1 can be met more than once, I want to be able to execute the result of cond1 only once the first time it's met but be still able to proceed with the loop (not return from the loop 12:20:26 should I put a return-from a block? 12:20:34 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:20:34 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:20:45 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:22:42 but don't know where I would put the block 12:23:01 francogrex, i'm not sure i understand what you mean 12:23:28 you're looping, and in the loop body, you have a COND 12:23:41 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 12:23:44 madnificent: I got it running by having emacs there in .xsession. Thanks for the tip, now I get a chance to test it out and see if I like it at all. 12:23:58 francogrex, is that correct? 12:24:16 (so far) 12:25:45 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:27:01 -!- hilbert [~Hilbert@adsl-178-39-146-39.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:28:05 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:28:38 hilbert [~Hilbert@adsl-178-39-146-39.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 12:31:27 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:32:59 -!- hilbert [~Hilbert@adsl-178-39-146-39.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:35:11 Quadrescence: yes right 12:35:32 and the while looping a condition is met and it prints something 12:35:45 francogrex, and if you meet one of the branches of the COND in the loop, you want it not be executed in the future? 12:35:58 but the condition remains tru for more than one iteration of the loop 12:36:44 I want it to be printed only once yet have the loop continue normallyso that the other conditions could be also processed 12:37:10 yes okay... I think I understand 12:39:54 francogrex, I am writing some code to do what I think you want. 12:41:52 uselpa [~uselpa@83.99.17.86] has joined #lisp 12:42:18 ok thanks 12:43:05 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 12:43:41 hilbert [~Hilbert@7-111-204-62-static.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 12:44:03 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:47:58 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:49:10 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 12:49:40 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:52:05 francogrex, hm, this is tougher to encapsulate than I thought 12:55:03 I know, I am thinking of adding anotherflag inside the cond 1 so that when it's met once the flag is triggered and it is part of the condition 12:55:34 -!- uselpa [~uselpa@83.99.17.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:11 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:57:31 francogrex: rewrite the condition one as (cond ((and flag the-original-condition) (setf flag t) ...) ...) 12:57:48 francogrex: that, or i don't quite understand what you're after 12:58:07 francogrex, this is what I have so far: http://codepad.org/FTT3Hjfl 12:58:10 mm, (setf flag nil) 12:58:16 it should be t originally 12:58:34 it does not work because CONDITIONS is expanded just around the cond, so CONDITIONS will get re-set every time you enter the cond which is not desirable 12:58:44 (cond ((and (shiftf flag nil) ...) ...)) 12:58:52 (not a great idea) 12:59:21 Xach: that will only work for first iteration, i thought it should be done until the condition is true 12:59:34 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 12:59:36 Xach: but a nice trick, nevertheless 12:59:37 (and x (shiftf ...)) 13:01:32 jdz: yes that's what I was thinking. I was doing that right now. 13:01:51 The challenge is to wrap it up in a macro! 13:02:11 Quadrescence: never was 13:02:26 the flag stuff is an easy solution, but it's not elegant 13:02:31 Quadrescence: jdz may be right, the flag will not be reset if defined in the top of the loop as with with flag = 0 13:03:13 so it should be BEFORE the do part 13:04:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:04:40 but I am also considering your macro maybe a cleaner way 13:05:04 My macro is faulty because the conditions vector needs to persist across the loop 13:05:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:05:54 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 13:06:41 hmm 13:07:42 mrcarrot: if you can run it through emacs, you'll be able to run it directly through your .xinitrc . however, i probably wouldn't be bothered untill i'd figure out if it's worth the hassle. 13:08:08 I'm confident it can be done with two macros... (with-cond-once (cond-once ...) well wouldn't it be easier to set a flag like I did it just now seems to work, albeit not elegant 13:11:28 it would be "easier" yes 13:12:08 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 13:13:05 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 13:13:14 francogrex, I have another idea I am trying 13:14:03 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:16:25 madnificent: Yep! 13:17:34 ok 13:22:06 francogrex, got it 13:23:19 francogrex, http://paste.lisp.org/display/133465 13:23:40 in the output, you'll see each branch might be reached more than once, but each branch is only executed once 13:27:27 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 13:28:58 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:03 -!- eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 13:29:30 It should work for every branch, without any limit on the number of branches. 13:31:56 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:33:35 hmm, #2+foo really should ignore the next two forms; do i miss an obvious way to ignore e.g. named arguments like (foo #-foo :xyz #-foo T) except APPLY? 13:34:22 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:34:38 ferada: I've heard a close reading of the spec allows "#-foo #-foo form form", but not all implementations agree on that point. 13:34:49 And I'm not sure it's much better. 13:35:03 heh, yeah, it's a tiny bit better 13:35:24 acl gives a long warning on that 13:35:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:38:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:39:50 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-157-102-115.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:53 ngz [~user@194.85.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:11 Quadrescence: instead of cond-once, you should just make the tests themselves only work once; e.g., you should be able to say (cond ((once (= r 0))) ...) or use IF or WHEN or whatever 13:41:50 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 13:42:03 I'm not sure what you mean. 13:42:11 loke_erc_ [~user@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:42:13 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:42:36 except that would require code walking... 13:42:41 yeah 13:42:46 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 13:43:08 but i have a better idea 13:43:19 what's that 13:43:34 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:46:20 Quadrescence: i annotated the pate 13:46:22 paste even 13:47:03 I'm not sure I'd say that's better because it sort of breaks the idea of lexical binding. 13:47:20 nan_ [~candodget@24.133.102.40] has joined #lisp 13:47:45 true, but i'd still use this one 13:48:12 because, a) olny one macro, and b) can use whatever conditional 13:48:24 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 13:48:34 well, as far as macros go 13:48:38 jdz, I also think it would be very confusing if you had bindings in the scope around WITH-ONE-TIME-CONDITIONS\ 13:49:05 Quadrescence: yeah, that's why i'd use a flag in loop instead of macros 13:49:25 i.e., you have a (let ((r ..)) ..) wrapped around. When reading the code, it would be very confusing which R the macro refers to. 13:49:33 In my case, that is not an issue. 13:50:19 Moreover, and I might be mistaken, in order for your solution to work, you'd have to bind each condition variable to a symbol macro, making it even more complicated. 13:50:36 Quadrescence: what's so compilacated about that? 13:50:55 You said it's only one macro, but it's really one macro and N symbol macros. 13:51:15 One thing that surprises me: I have always been told that lispers are rude to newbies. I have in this channel found that it definitely is not true! 13:51:28 Quadrescence: it's only one macro in the sense that you cannot use cond-once without with-cond-case 13:51:39 mrcarrot, You haven't come on during the right time of day :) 13:51:42 Hello everyone, where would be the best place for a lisp noob? I have a few little questions (maybe "clnoobs")? 13:51:51 nan_: ask away. 13:52:05 wow. clnoobs still exists? 13:52:13 mrcarrot: #lisp can be mean to people who show no evidence of progress or a desire to learn 13:52:20 i'll just paste what i asked there then :) 13:52:23 I am sure that i am missing something so basic but how can i ensure (a (concatanate 'string b c)) evaluated at read time? 13:52:40 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 13:52:42 jdz, anyway, if this was for production code, the lack of lexical convention would be a deal breaker for me. 13:52:58 nan_: #. is a read-macro that evaluates the following form at read time. what's the context? 13:53:06 nan_: One answer is "you probably don't want that" 13:53:07 -!- loke_erc_ [~user@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:09 Quadrescence: if this was production code, the use of a hashtable where a single variable is needed would be a real deal breaker 13:53:10 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:53:25 jdz, You need O(N) mutable cells. 13:53:26 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:41 nan_: but yeah, you precede the form with #. 13:53:42 that is i know both b and c at read time 13:53:45 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:15 jdz, which can be proven with the pidgeonhole principle. So I am not sure why that would be a deal breaker. 13:54:36 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:43 macrolitis is a deal breaker, really 13:55:02 nan_: what's the bigger context, though? 13:55:30 The alternative is to repeat the pattern over and over, which is a larger burden. Not sure what the problem with using macros is. 13:55:52 Quadrescence: if that is a pattern, it is sure a very sneaky one i have not encountered yet 13:56:06 Xach not anything particular, i want to know how to concat two strings at read time since it is something you do quite often, at least i do. 13:56:10 which kind of makes it a not-pattern 13:56:31 dlowe: thanks! 13:56:49 nan_: I don't think I've ever done that, so I'm curious about how it comes up in practice. 13:56:49 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.21.151] has joined #lisp 13:57:03 nan_: you liar! you said you're a noob, but you know about "read time" 13:57:14 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:57:45 jdz, I'm not sure your programming habits are indicative of what programming constructs are common or useful or not. :) 13:57:46 jdz: i have read PCL two times, overlooked some parts yet... 13:58:03 Xach: i'll try to find an example :) 14:00:58 Quadrescence: also, see http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/doc/Boolean-Tests.html#Boolean-Tests 14:01:26 Xach: i am playing with stumpwm right now and i need to merge for example "exec cmus " and say "u", since they are both known, it makes no sense delaying the process to runtime 14:03:13 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:05:04 dlowe: btw why the answer is "you probably don't want that"? 14:05:24 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: lifetime expired] 14:05:29 nan_: I don't really understand, sorry. Is there a code example? 14:05:38 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 14:06:01 nan_: because the increase in complexity is usually not worth the gain 14:06:41 -!- nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:06:41 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:41 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:06:45 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 14:06:58 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.181] has left #lisp 14:07:01 nan_: also, don't use string concatenation for that 14:07:10 jdz, I wonder what the semantics of FIRST-TIME-P are. Looking at the source code for 30 seconds, I could guess it registers a binding to T with ITER, and then FIRST-TIME-P will return the value bound followed by setting that binding to NIL 14:07:11 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 14:07:20 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:07:20 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:22 jdz: what do you suggest? 14:07:52 setheus_ [~setheus@107-203-153-73.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:52 nan_: a list of command name and arguments, each one as its own element 14:07:54 dlowe: i am learning and i want to know the details :) 14:07:56 -!- setheus [~setheus@107-203-153-73.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:08:14 Quadrescence: that's pretty accurate 14:08:28 jdz, Of course, it's code walking I suppose. (I'm not very familiar with ITERATE.) 14:09:00 antgreen [~user@dsl-173-206-245-215.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 14:09:08 Quadrescence: in this case it's not about code walking 14:09:11 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #lisp 14:09:39 jdz, Right, in fact, it might not need to here. I think the main point is that ITER sets up a sort of environment that FIRST-TIME-P accesses. 14:11:01 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn903-184.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:11:23 -!- ngz [~user@194.85.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:13 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 14:15:39 ngz [~user@194.85.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:44 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:29 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-88-188.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:17:51 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1b6c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:18:58 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1b6c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:48 jdz, here is an implementation of that. Same structure essentially. http://paste.lisp.org/display/133465#2 14:20:44 dlowe: I don't know how to write code in irc but i have a few strings known at read-time, (they are just literals) and i want to concat/format them and have the output again at read-time. It is not about optimizations, just want to know. 14:21:34 jdz, oops, cond-once shouldn't be there 14:22:04 Quadrescence: so, if this was production code, i'd delete your macro and use iterate 14:22:23 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-93-225.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 14:24:51 Sure, that would be reasonable, if you didn't mind rewriting the loop. Though some managers might question the addition of an entirely new looping facility, and why you reminded something that works orthogonally to existing lisp facilities. :) 14:25:34 nan_: why is it so important to have it at read time? 14:25:56 Quadrescence: if i was the manager, i'd go for a tested library instead of silly macros any day 14:26:59 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:27:28 I respectfully disagree, then. 14:29:07 bitonic [~user@dyn903-184.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:29:39 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:32:27 Quadrescence: i respectfully agree to disagree, then :) 14:33:52 dlowe: not about this particular example but i believe i need to know these kind of things to be able to write library quality code some day. If i know something at read time, as a library provider i shouldn't leave it to runtime. I maybe don't make any sense sorry (C++ templates background) 14:34:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:35:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:35:06 -!- guyal__ [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:36:02 nan_: I wouldn't worry about it. 14:36:36 linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:38:54 nan_: as a library provider, you should be wary about what you know. Things can change. 14:38:59 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:39:35 Xach: You are most likely right, as i can so easily get lost in details. Yet again the language i used wasn't powerful enough to abstract away things like that, Lisp looks just perfect. 14:40:08 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:40:51 dlowe: I agree but there is also another thing, say you are implementing "loop" you need to dive into bits and places to get the most out of it. 14:45:23 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn903-184.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:46:06 moore33: around? 14:50:45 bitonic [~user@dyn1221-216.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:52:33 guyal__ [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:50 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 14:55:04 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81.200.28.83] has joined #lisp 14:55:44 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-157-102-115.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:30 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-157-102-115.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:57:25 -!- elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:57:38 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:02:21 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:24 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A653.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:32 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:03:02 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:05 thethomaseffect [~thethomas@109.255.215.132] has joined #lisp 15:12:10 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-181-209.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:12:10 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@81.200.28.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:35 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81.200.28.83] has joined #lisp 15:13:24 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.139.24] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:13:26 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:00 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 15:19:57 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Quit: faust45] 15:20:54 -!- rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ieipwjuzqnfhewxw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:56 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 15:23:07 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 15:23:19 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-eccde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:23:44 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:23:45 jewel [~jewel@105.237.24.33] has joined #lisp 15:26:03 http://lists.warhead.org.uk/pipermail/iwe/2005-July/000130.html Ends with "Source code generation is unreliable and inadvisable in every language 15:26:03 except Lisp" Hope i knew that 5-10 years ago... Better learning it the hard way... i guess? 15:26:51 lol 15:26:56 orly ?! 15:27:21 Can I tell hunchentoot:create-folder-dispatcher-and-handler to provide a cache-lifetime header? 15:27:22 Oh, is it not true? How you mean? 15:27:42 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 15:27:46 nan_: well, in lisp you typically don't build source code but parse trees 15:27:49 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:20 in zs3, is there a direct method to test for the existence of a key in a bucket? 15:29:29 flip214: not directly, no. 15:31:18 flip214: it uses the hunchentoot:handle-static-file function to actually serve the file and that function has a fixed set of headers that it sets in the response. these headers are usually sufficient to make upstream caches play nice. 15:31:48 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1167960209.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:32:34 gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-oyewyzkyfbcuwvga] has joined #lisp 15:34:09 H4ns: thank you. 15:45:18 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:46:54 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] 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quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:41:06 superflit_ [~superflit@209-180-241-20.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:15 -!- superflit [~superflit@65-128-38-137.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:41:15 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 16:41:56 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-171-214.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 16:42:08 slyrus:yo 16:42:35 hey moore33, I noticed you were talking about SBCL's FFI and I was wondering if I could get you to review a patch for me 16:42:53 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:00 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:43:00 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 16:43:28 Sure, but you do realize I haven't done serious Lisp hackery in years :) I've just recently fallen back into it. 16:43:59 me too... 16:44:01 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-235-039.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:02 the patch in question can be found at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1028537 16:46:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-213-127.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:47:19 mm.. 16:47:34 always wondered how hard it would be to write a rudimentary, and crappy common lisp compiler... 16:49:15 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-034-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:49:45 -!- hilbert [~Hilbert@7-111-204-62-static.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 16:50:19 Ralt [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:46 My sbcl source tree dates from 2006, so that's something to fix first... 16:50:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-213-127.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:51:40 linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:51:52 hehe 16:52:10 i still use maclisp on a daily basis.. beat that :-) 16:52:39 I still use a very old programming language... oh wai-- 16:52:47 ams: Via an ITS emulation? 16:53:05 moore33: yup. 16:53:12 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has left #lisp 16:53:19 moore33: just for kicks, it is quite a nice system overall.. 16:53:41 moore33: so yeah, ncomplr is my cmopiler =) 16:55:18 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:55:54 -!- linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]